United States for it stands one nation under God indivisibley and justice for compision subject law by giving written advance notice of at least 40 hours to local
newspapers and posting on the local website the time, date and location and to the extent known the agenda of the meeting. Cops of this notice were posted in the burough hall and filed in the bur public comment will be launched into the budget which is what this meeting about.
So this is going to be the only public comment period for this meeting. So do you have any comments? No comments we can launch in. Um we have our auditors here today. Those are the two actually table one. Um
Betty Joe and our CFO as well. Um how would you like to do you want auditors to walk us through things? Do you want us each ones you want to discuss? How would you like? >> Um, so we can discuss the budget as it
is in its current form. Um, it has a tax increase of $135 for the local and $18 for library. Um, and it supports um the general operations of the burough, all
negotiated contracts, um, salaries and the costs that have increased. Um just like every resident has seen electricity um or solid waste removal um
yeah >> mayor would you like me to just give a little bit of an overview of what and I I have done so far with the budget you know where you're at and obviously this um this from the numbers provided to us by Betty Joe I mean put it into the
state format and I know she's worked with all the departments and all the commissioners to get to this point. Um but the budget that you have today is um comes in with an increase in the local purpose tax of about $600,000
depending on your tax rate is about $200,000. So your round comes in about 3.2 um cents is an increase as it stands now. your budget um just as all municipalities is required to stay
within two state mandated caps. The first cap is a three and a half% spending cap. It's really tight on the spending just about $27,000 below the spending cap. So that's real tight. We also have to stay in compliance with a 2% tax le
that tax couple below that. So it simplifies the B tax um with that decrease in two cents which is um $32 a year on $100,000 worth of assessment. Your
average assessment I think is $450,000 to about $145 in the average assessment. Um, one last thing before we get into guts of the budget. the spending is only decreasing. Um, but that is a little bit deceiving
because we are paying down less of our in $800,000 that this budget only has a $200,000 that so that $600,000
really operations are going up to $800,000. >> Well, I want to there going from 204 budget we had $89,000 buyers
last year. We did not go up dollar any last seven months went up 531,000 that we're also
that I don't $91. $82,000. >> Think of it this way. >> Yes. It's not even there. then 145 now on that one it's double every other
increase like utilities things like that they already increased last year too >> right >> this year now you're handling it's double because you have last year and >> I understand that but this year we were saying it would go up and our revenue would also go up
>> correct so one thing your circle >> that's not what I'm talking about I'm talking about if you're talking about 3.37 and that means about $4500
right so I just want to kind of make it clear that to cover the $826,000 that were already in the 5 budget. That would be an increase in the 2024 budget. >> I Yes, that would have been more than
$91 per household to cover $826,000. >> I'm sure there's other ways through like made other things happen, but I'm just since we made zero increases last year, looking at this increase at 145 like in a vacuum is it's just not just to give
the full picture. Uh because really, as you said, our costs went up this year by $311,000. >> Our appropriations >> appropriations went up, but we never we had it unfunded
$826,000 from the year before that we that we covered out of surplus. unfunded in that it continually we do not have >> contin. >> So we're playing catchup from not just not just this year but last year. So,
there's a lot of things to to add um to like go through in addition to, you know, $680,000 in insurance for all that's cross staff. $600,000 in health insurance increases. 68. Wow.
63%. >> That's the better number. >> And the worst thing is that's only that's 27%. Um state health benefits say that well% >> and difficult because the hip have said
we still don't have paper unfortunately that we were going to have like a couple years that didn't happen which is so uh sorry can you say that again? So if we were through this we have the
health insurance if we approve and state those health insurance increases across the board for dollars that would be 30 something >> but we are at 27% that is sign >> that is $8,000
>> and that's the biggest expenditure. So now it becomes where you want to go in in the details of of the numbers. Um, you know, the one other thing we should talk about too that's big driver in this budget. You're using $1.3 million
of property sale which is a one time. >> Absolutely. >> And that's is significant by that which we have um just for the logistics
of it. We can't adopt this budget until we have proceeds. You have a signed The agreement for sale contract >> not there yet. Okay. So the agreement is not signed. >> Yeah. No closed.
>> So it it will shouldn't say it will. It may delay the adoption of budget waiting for cash. with the 1.3 million revenue that is not actually. So it might slow the adoption process up a little bit. Um but you know
we'll worry about that logistics once we get done with where do you want this to be when do you want to introduce it and um you know then when the hearing would be and possibly that's just mechanics not
I just want you to be aware it's not necess when their closing date is I think is kind of up to them are they are they I don't remember are they wise within so many days we can find all appealable voters. So typically the approvals like
that's typically how set up I have to go look at the agreement to see that >> yeah it's been a lot >> when there's a deadline for closing. >> Yeah. >> Um but it might not be till at the summer. >> Yeah. >> Right. They're going in in next they're going in next month to start >> March to start. So if they get
everything approved there, they would approve. We could try to expedate the resolution to approve it. So they, you know, that's the we're running later in summer. >> Yeah. I'll give you what we run up against. Um right now,
municipal budgets are required to be introduced by March 31st or your next regularity schedule. So >> and then adopted by April 30th for the next week. So
um now when there's extenduating circumstances like this um there's not a problem with delaying that adoption as far as the state goes. The problem is once we get into the summer, it delays your tax bills because if you don't have
a certified budget, the county can't strike your tax rate, which means you can't um send August quarter tax bills. Um now there is pro process where you can set estimated bills. Um you know, which just
it adds to the to the um paperwork that say the summer. So, it would be nice if you could get this sale done and cash it in the bank prior to um
June June 30th, you know, would be I mean, I'd like to love to see it May 31, but but if it goes beyond June 30th, then we're in the situation where we're looking at late tax, but um obviously it's significant number is a significant driver around your
budget. So you know there are ways to make but we just wanted >> were you planning on going line by line? >> I don't I is the the 222
the schools that we talked about for is that in this budget? >> Yes. It's online. >> Okay. Shoot. The last thing you said around Okay. So, um I made the decision before especially given how everything is
precarious. I think what we talked about last time. Uh makes no sense to be paying money for schools. Um all those discussions last year kind of ended with schools raising four and a half million dollars in taxes
in new money. Um that was the reason why we kept the burrow kept it flat and knowing that we're going to have to make this up figure this out like in the following years but we weren't going to hit people with double. Um, and now
we're as we're trying to fix pet and we're spending we're not paying down the debt the way we've always paid down the debt, >> but we are still paying the debt to some degree, just not as much. >> Not as much as we did for the 15 years
before. Okay. We always have been >> a lot of it. >> I tell you what, >> we have a lot of it. A lot of buildings, but expensive. >> Yeah. And and we've been and we've been very well no we've been very depressed in paying that down on the short term on the short term therapy held out because
it was the most financially advantageous for the bur. Okay. It it we're doing where the max of spending where the tax rate we're doing is not an consequential one 145 on on the average property.
>> Wait, hold on. Sorry. to my from my understanding looking at the debt service and payment on bond principle seems to be like in the ballpark um maybe in 21 we paid down 2.6
interest on bonds that is that is lower but on what we did in 25 it only >> payment on no princip I'm looking at bond bond pay and no princip >> and if there's a year when we didn't pay it on it it's because we didn't have the
princip >> okay >> okay they're tied into when we did those buildings you're right it's also well these are all buildings the other side is the water stop these are the buildings and we would do part of it in
permanent, part of it in short term in order to to reduce the impact on taxpayers and and what we did was on the short term we would pay that down aggressively. So if there was a 2
million if the building was 14 million we would permanent 12 go to shortterm notes on two and say to ourselves we're paying the two off in the next four years and the long term goes off for 20 the long term blending that in so that
we help reduce that overall. Okay, here what we're doing is we're reducing by 2/34s the amount we're paying on that no principal. We're still paying our long-term debt if we have to. We don't have any any option. Um, so we're
putting this budget just puts us Maybe you guys should talk about to me it puts us it it puts us at more risk for next year because of things like if something happens to the ocean if they don't close on that like there's just some risk in
it. But even if that happens, we've knocked our surplus down. Our appropriations and our spending are at the max of what we can what we can do. We're raising revenue off of that. We're not likely to fall to drop a lot of
surplus debt. It's kind of like you're not gonna we're not making enough money to drop into our savings. But the thing is is that and I listen I see the wisdom of how you've done that year before but what's not accounted for in the 25 budget that like we walked
into was a $900,000 increase for police and fire that we did not increase taxes for and then a almost $700,000 increase in insurance. So I am all ears as to what solutions you have. >> Oh well the one solution is don't give $222,000 to an entity that has four and
a half million. Great. When is the when >> when when is the sky paying us back $200,000 we have given them this year? >> We're going to we're going to work on that. Absolutely. >> There's another but we're we're into that relationship and paying that. That's a lot different than the school calling you a week ago and saying send
me a check for a quarter of a million dollars. >> Can we can we go back to this school line for a second because I want to make sure that I fully understand the history of this. So, if we look at this line item, which is $235 in the budget, $222,500,
um has been my understanding I talked to Betty D about this the other day just to make sure my husband was around that money um it's not on it's it's not a check to the school. My understanding is we have so people pay their taxes to the burough 47% goes to the schools and my
understanding is that there was an agreement I don't know if it was written or not but after the pilot at Parkview that basically 47% correct 222 >> that's not we didn't did we do check oh
I guess originally we did we we did a deduction we never did deduction they got from our budget that came from outside but they got whatever they build us for is what they >> right and the 222 I know the last couple years it's been
checked it's been a separate check >> okay >> they can't pay for the check for the 222 separate checks >> I'm I'm not disagreeing that the money goes to the school my question is is it part of the 47% that goes yes or no
>> it was saved deducted it, right? That's that's the deal. Like >> they've never gone It's never been in addition to it's been part of the 47% and it's >> No. Listen. No. Okay. They get they get the school they get their their full
tax. Say it's 100 bucks, right? School tax school budget is $100 that goes into the tax bill. That money comes in that hundred bucks when it comes in of their budget. Okay. Betty Joe paid that that gets transferred over to a check gets
transferred over to the 222 that was being paid out of the park view. Okay. Was paid separate. What we went Let me finish. What we went through last year was when they received that 222 their bookkeeping was they would deduct
it from their tax. Okay. So the 222 that they got in the year prior when they put together their tax levy form, that's part of what I went over here, tax levy form. And on the tax levy form, their taxes would be
$100. And then below it, it said less 22,22500. And so their new tax levy was this. Okay. >> 98. that that factored into what they collected from everyone because so they got two they collected 222 less from
people because we gave them a check for 222 >> right so they did not give over the 100 in this scenario >> correct correct >> that's what I was trying >> they didn't get more than that right so if we don't pay them the 222
they get the full 100 their budget goes into what the levy is and they collect all that >> like last year they didn't get >> correct >> they raised taxes but they didn't get it last year right
>> so the levy that they adopt for this year >> will not deduct that amount >> understood >> that's it >> um when so this the the inception of this agreement was part yes 96 so the schools have been receiving that
2222,500 since 1996 >> correct >> and what are the implications of not giving $222,000 to the students teachers fired. >> The the school will get 100% of their
budget. >> I understand what you're saying. >> Less money, you don't implication not giving it to them is that the taxayer pays the 22.
Um, so in this case, if if if the burrow gives them the 222, the taxpayer is paying the burrow and you're school. If you don't, the school raises it and the taxpayer pays it on the school share.
And so it's coming from people. But but what it does is in in our budget, it's just whether it's on the final tax bill is a piece of a piece of the burough tax or piece of >> and it so so it doesn't buy off any teachers. It doesn't change anything for
them. They get all the money they were going to get. Okay. What it does is it just puts us another 220 back on. Yeah. That's that's all it does. >> I I think we should put a pin in that
because honestly $220,000 is like the least is not like nothing but I'm I'm trying to understand when you all because like I'm already thinking the next budget, right? And that's what you're thinking of course. So my question is when the 25 budget was
adopted, what was I and we no one could have known that the HIP would have been such an utter failure and I know we got a third one for a couple of years incredibly unfortunate and infuriating
but so you couldn't have known about $600,000 increase of insurance, but we did know about the police and fire increase. So, what and and you already talked about the breath bond. So, we knew that that more more debt was coming. You've already talked about
that. So, what what was the plan? What what were you going to do? Like for forget $200,000. What like you're a lot of like this what? Well, one of the things I would have done is I would have paced things
slower. Okay. Would have not We're We're adding five cops this year. Okay. I would have paced slower. The agreement we believed we had the fire, okay, about EMS was we were going to add a firefighter EMT a year for three years.
>> And we can all arch driven by budget. >> Stop. Let's stop. >> Well, I'm not gonna stop. I'm going to answer the issues you raised. But I I don't So I have this the issue is that >> we used a lot of surplus >> $119,000
is what we increased for police officers. The the 25 budget had 3.281 million. It went up to 3.4. So we're talking you're saying you would have paused it, but that would have only saved us $119,000
because the 25 budget had 3.281 281 for salary and wages for police officers. >> Yeah, but what was spent was 2.8. >> There's a difference between what you budget and plan to put in and what you actually spent. See the two numbers
>> because they're not there, right? >> But we have an or we have an ordinance that has how many we're supposed to have. So, we're going to be fighting with the fire union and the police union because we're not going to give them the officers that it says in our ordinances. were supposed to. We've never had them because we didn't pay them enough and
like we couldn't, you know, we couldn't keep them staffed >> and now we can't. And >> the reason No, no, you say now we can. No, we can because you said we're going to do it. Okay. And I understand the ordinance says you have to be at that number. So, boom, we're going to do it. Okay. But now you're sitting here
looking at this at the budget and saying, "Oh my gosh, look at look at all the money that we're spending on it. How could it be?" Well, the reason is because the ordinance may say that the budget is what guides us. Okay. And if you would let me finish. Okay. What we
would do because when there's a gap like that of a half a million dollars between what's budgeted and police salaries and what was spent, that 500 falls to surplus at the end of the year. When Betty Joe talked to us last time we were
together about the two firemen, right? Well, she has built into this, right? Two two full-time firemen for the year, right? >> By half a year because >> you put it in for half. >> But when we were here last time, the two full-times that were in was for an
entire year. Okay. Well, we're not midyear yet, but by the time this gets done, we'll be midyear. So, now you have half of that salary is not going to get spent this year. So if we didn't hire those people the full year would fall to
surplus. If we were to hire them midyear half of that number would fall to surplus. So it is yes what we would have what we would have done is slowed the pace slowed the pace and I know people listen department heads all over will
tell you they don't have enough and I don't I'm not disagreeing with them. Okay. But enough is also got to be guided on what can we pay for out of the budget? What can we afford to do? Um we and and the reason we cut it knowing you
were going to have do something this year because people were facing the largest even without us the largest tax increase in all we could find in the history of the burrow. So we tried to take that off knowing we'd have to do
adjustments going forward. That's not how this is work. That's what it did. I get it. It says five. You have to add five. SO YOU ADDED FIVE. COOL. OKAY. WELL, now we got to pay for it. >> To me, it didn't come from the ordinance. It came from the budget request and multiple studies with the
police. I wasn't reading the ordinance. I just wanted >> I'm not okay. I'm not even arguing. I'm only saying that because that's was mentioned, but I'm not I'm not arguing it. But if that's what you're doing, then yeah, it puts a lot of additional pressures on And you just need to and I
don't think we should be paying 222 out when it's not municipal services. Let them cover it on their budget on their tax levy, which they can and they will. Okay. And pulling it out of here
is is not saving anybody anything. And it puts the burrow at a greater a little bit more of a greater risk on its budget. Go to fish. That's all. It does not seem clear to me having sat
through the initial meeting that she carried that he was under any of that understanding. I was in part of the police and fire negotiation. I don't know what was said there. It seemed to have been gigantic confusion based on a lot of emails between jails and both
chiefs. So I don't walking into a lot of this that was predetermined and then I'm have I'm trusting department heads and BAS and CFOs to say what was negotiated. I thought we don't even have our fire. We don't even have
our fire we don't even have our fire uh >> contract or our police police our police contract. Right. So I did not know that until about three weeks ago. Um, so besides the 2225, Jim, what other
>> Oh, I just think it's it's just precarious. Hanging on a sale is really tough. Like, it's just precarious. I don't have I don't have any magic. I just I just think that on this budget at 222 and going forward, you've got to be
really careful about where we're committing money to, okay? because it it it doubly puts us in a hole going forward. We're already a million four short next year. That's what this means. >> 1.3. >> Okay.
>> One thing that was good. So, how does that within the budget that's coming from? It's not 1,3. Okay. So, we're 1.3. >> I have a question. It was really helpful for me. A conversation I had with Betty Joe earlier this week. I said, "Help me understand what's the difference between
between 25 and 26." So, just talking about kind of big picture, what are the big differences? $600,000 for health insurance. Um, uh, the 2225, which was not paid to the schools last year. Um,
in addition, um, uh, we increased Burough Hall salaries and we took off the cost of living. is that four% cost of living cost of living. And my understanding is there had in the past been very little merit raises um cross
hall staff. So we took up everyone so that there was no one under was it $40,000. So no one full-time was making less than $40,000. So we took up some salaries um as merit raises. Um and so really to me the difference is just to make sure that my head is wrapped around
this. difference is the 222 $600,000 in health insurance and people. Is that right? Because we're paying for police, fire, and merit. >> Let me give you one more new expense. >> Yes. >> Um >> the solid waste collection.
>> So that's a new expense that wasn't in the budget previously. Everything else that you just >> Everything else I just cited ticks right off everything I I have. So, if we're asking people to pay $145 more, it is for the health insurance and the people
who work for this town. Is that accurate? >> That it is the most significant piece. >> Okay. >> Well, the other piece is also that it's it's the police and fire. That's the big jump >> for sure, right? the people
the salaries and the benefits >> and the benefits that for all of us that have other jobs. This is the case at my own at my company as well, right? Like the health insurance is fathers. Who knows what will happen? But what people will pay taxes people for
>> and for insurance premiums also went up for our staff. Correct. >> Yes. they contribute to >> and and when their contributing also went up. Correct. So in those >> I'm not sure how much went by I just know went up as well. >> When the health insurance went up by 27% the employees contributions also went
up. So a lot of the 4% hold up really just came back into trying to somehow make their semi but that's actually what you said we're always paying for no because your taxes go 47% goes to the school 30 something
goes to the county we're paying for debt service we're paying for police uniforms so but the increase is for people >> well the for the borrow budget the borrow budget. >> Yeah, >> it typically goes, oh yeah, built we do roads and stuff like that. We don't have anything in here to do a new road,
>> right? >> The next year in you're generally able to hold those other expenses, >> hold them similar to previous years there and you do have um some unexpended
balances in the budget. So if you think you need $25,000 for something, you don't put 25 in the budget, you put 26. Exactly. >> And then you know throughout, you know, you get a few million of those savings, but the increases are absolutely personal.
>> Oh, and there are some increases. So just to go to this line about streets and roads, we are paying for roads. Last year the actual was 337. The proposed for 2026 is 36. >> I think that's a salary. I don't think that's actually that would come from our capital. Sorry that
>> which I think is it own it own >> it own sheet >> and I want to talk about capital improvement funds but >> just before we're done. >> No I think that's just helpful for the lay person like if we're asking for this increase what's it for? >> Also like looking at it you know we've
had two new buildings in the last five years. So we can't and and we've aggressively paid down the debt for those buildings, but we have done those are gigantic infrastructure projects and we cannot be investing perpetually in big and we
have the water and we still have a gigantic infrastructure project in the water. >> Separate budget >> separate budget but like saying that we're not investing in infrastructure is I think a little misleading because we have more so than the in previous 15 years we built two buildings and five.
Like now you have different focuses, right? >> Public safety. >> We've replaced buildings. We just listen driving up Patton Avenue just now from the office like boom boom boom boom like it's doing roads. We got no money in here. >> Um are our electricity cost up by talk about electricity in New Jersey. How
much are those? >> Not too bad. No, that's actually lower than >> Is that enough with the anticipation of 6.7 we also went up a bit in salaries and wages for the pool and other expenses for I guess placement of something or
another. So the salary wage includes in the pool is actually just a requestification from recreation. I've had a few people be in charge of recreation that really should have been to the pool. >> Okay. Um speaking of recreation, um so I know this in your wheelhouse,
but our wreck fees are like laughably small, which is great, but I don't think they changed in a long time. Um, I I think we should increase our rent fees just so they're even because they're kind of like all over the place and like I was talking about Joe like a bunch of our sports like we we lose we lose
money. We lose money at our summer camp. We're paying like people are paying $4 an hour for daycare in the summer playground camp. I think you could increase like just make it 65 across the board for all the activities for you know basketball, wrestling, soccer,
>> basketball's 55, wrestling's 50. You could you could raise them. I mean listen it's always been we under the bar's always underwritten those programs and the whole idea is listen anybody that can't pay >> absolutely >> but the pool that's always okay
>> the pool. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. Well, the water plants going to cost better triple that money. >> That pool is still a great deal. What I'm saying about I think >> 65 and then you know the summer
playground camp that you would >> Yes, it was. It absolutely was. And it would still be the cheapest summer camp. >> How much is the summer camp? Um currently it's $60 a week and it's going to go up to $75 $75 a week. >> Yeah. students will be paying less than $6 an hour, which is cheap state.
Um, I mean, I just threw some numbers together because we're talking about like I think that's just something to kind of keep up with the times. >> Um, >> in the end, but I think that would be a small lining at least just I don't you should be
losing a huge amount of money. The the other one one other thing of my notes that there the one other risk factor going on next year is tax that's an impact we had this year and and most of them are kind of resolved kind of beyond most of that stuff
>> except for one is there one big one >> there's one big one >> yeah one big which which part okay >> yeah that changes lot changes so just
there's not a lot to be done for it. But but be conscious every nickel like it's going to matter. >> Um on that I I have a question on the >> just to make sure I'm reading this right
for the library bathroom. We have it in our like general worksheet because that's the engineering cost. Yes. And then we also have it in our >> in our in our capital because that's the actual >> um construction.
>> That's a construction. Correct. >> Yes. >> Okay. But in just in your notes here it said the move to outside C for that like 50 that 56,000. We talked a little bit about I moved a whole bunch of the other
things out >> in in the state of budget document. >> Those fees when Betty Joe first gave us the budget we're over but there certain items we're put out. One of it was the trash services for multi family multi
occupancy department. That was it. And that engineering was originally in with your general engineering related. >> That's the fun relationship between the tax levy cap and the appropriations. We
can raise taxes three million more dollars. >> You just can't spend except on certain things, >> right? Um likewise our uh our trash contract, is there like a percentage in there that can only go by a certain amount or how
does that work slot for the five? >> Okay. What's good for them? >> Okay. >> Just based on how much the number goes up based on the contraction. >> Okay. That was my because I saw it went up like 40 grand but like that's because of
>> well it's it's not our it's not our it's about the contract with >> I've never seen that. I'm saying the solid waste contractual including yard waste and and that line went up 45. >> So that means that 26 contractually that's that's what's outlined in the
contract. >> Okay. So there's there's an increase there's actually lock it says lock. >> So even when you settle a contract it is already fil. Well, that one's bid. When
you see bid bids, you're it went to the lowest. So, that was >> and and each and each one I guess this is my learn the learning curve, right? That it's not a set number. It's a set number with set increases for each
year. So, we're always like next year we're going to see another increase in regard, >> right? Describes what the amount going up each year. >> 2% increase, 3% increase. That's very dependent.
>> So it could be very >> Yeah, that number is memorial. Right. >> She had to take more money, but some high like our offices I should say and it's one of our clients. Their rate of values have gone up so much in
the last five years. The library has more money than they know what to do with. So they have to levy it. Well, there's ways they're allowed to make contributions back to to to the city. Um, but your library is not over.
>> That formula works for some, but not for all places with highes. It just it reduces you should see the type of money that they try to figure out how to get back. and Betty library,
>> right? because we won't say we yeah we can't we missed the boat on unfortunately hadn't had we yeah that the time for that >> you've got there's an appropriation for $52500
in the capital improvement fund The capital improvement fund money is used for down payment on bond ordinances. You can also fully fund 525,000 in capital improvement funds yields
$10.5 million of bondes. Do we anticipate doing another 10.5 million of bond ordinances this year? >> There's been no discussion. I don't and this is a separate budget from water. We're not talking about
>> Okay. Okay. Just making sure >> motor sewer and your general fun. >> Oh, I got you. I got you. I got you. Okay. So, as currently your general capital fund already has over $8,000
in that capital building fund, I would um unless you've got big projects projects that you plan on doing this year, the 525 might not be um that might be too
big of a bigger number than you need. And um one of the things we could consider and I want to talk about that service a little bit now too is rather than put $525,000
um into um capital reserve fund um I'm sorry capital improvement fund um we could use it towards debt service. Now
your notes, >> but we can we can um um we could still budget an additional amount to reserve it to um to next year. >> Can I ask you the add the 525 on the 800? >> Yeah. >> Gets us a million million four, right?
But then we've got projects that total million. >> Yes. So do you want to discuss those projects? Maybe they're >> kind of That's what I was going to ask. Do you have so you do you do Yeah, we got it I didn't detail 1.4. Okay.
>> Well, that's the beginning was was you can use that money for um well, if you've got $1.4 million worth of projects, do you feel that you need to pay for
them all in cash? Let me let me let me let me let me tell you what I'm what my what what I'm priving at here right now at um at December 31st you have a $2 million bondage.
It's rolling next week um with an additional 7 million um or that is going towards the unfunded portion of the unfunded recreation um um gets from last
year. There will still be $8 million left of debts issued. >> Would you take a shortterm vote for seven mil of the 15 million >> authorization? Yeah. Now, >> news to me. >> Yeah. The the the
current debt and then you have bonded debt. So, the bonded debt is is is the permanently finance that that where you're locked into the payment schedule of about just under 17 million. Um, in 2029, which is closer than you think,
you will have paid off your 2016, you have two 2016 bond issues that the debt service is about $1.4 million a year on those two places. Um, in 2029, you'll pay those off. Meaning in 2030,
um, you'll have $1.4 4 million per year of new room for debt service to to keep it level going forward. And um the debt that you currently have can be structured in a way to take advantage of
increasing those principal payments in 2030, you know, closer than than you realize and still keeping um level debt service. So I don't think that you have you are paying less on the bond anticipation notice than you did last year but um the
debt situation in the general um in the current fund is not out of control. It's actually manageable. That's why I wanted to know are you doing another $10 million you're doing $1.4 million. Well you know for $1.4 $4
million. You know, you don't need $500,000 payment. So, that could be if that's what you want to do. What I can do is is um give you build an entire schedule uh
that shows you your principle and interest that you're locked into for maturity. then the temporary notes that we have and how we can move towards permanently financing them when this opening comes up in 2030 that keeps you
level and then allows some room also for new things as they come. Um I don't that like I said the $1.4 million um I don't think that you necessarily um need to fund that all in cash. I mean, you probably should take advantage
of the fact that you can um and maybe you decide you want to 5% is the minimum down payment, but you might decide, okay, we want to do 20% cash and cut into that $525,000. Um even if you're adding, you know, you
know, you know, additional say turns out to be $1.2 million of debt, it still works in to what you have currently. That would be smooth going forward. The only caveat being there, what other things do you want to do capital wise in
the next five years that would affect how structure this going forward to keep that service? >> So, a couple different things. One is the whole ordinance and everything was all set up as a redevelopment. >> Okay. So, we the whole purpose was to
avoid deposit. >> Okay. All right. And so the the 5% 10% like it should be able to be structured without deposit >> but but that project's already in order. >> I'm talking about stuff going on.
>> Okay. For down payment. Yeah. >> You already have that $15 million already. You're all to borrow and spend that. >> But what you just went through were taking seven mil out in the short term. What are we borrowing that? What are we taking? What are we borrowing? The seven
>> the sale is on on on March 3rd. >> Oh, >> it's going to be around It's going to be around. >> Okay. So, so the So, we're borrowing 7 million on top of our rolling over our 2 million >> and that should be done. That's being
done like it's a redevelopment buck without any kind. >> All right. >> So, this you're talking about is you're not talking about taking that seven and slotting it like the whole point behind it. will have to slot that into other debt going away. Now I'm taking that
seven. You need to repay it somehow over either if you keep it in temporary notes. Temporary notes have to be paid off 10 years. >> We don't have
so that would mean that ultimately we're going to permanently finance it over a longer period and we have the whole in 2030. All right. So, we um we would do a bond sale in 2029 to permanently fund the seven plus the
eight. You still have eight that you haven't even issued any debt yet. >> I know my point is simply don't go off finding new projects to build that. The idea was to slip that seven. >> What I'm telling here's what I'm saying. Right now I have a you know it's right
now there's a schedule that works very easily to keep you flat with no increase right now if in the next five years you need to do more than what you're already obligated to then that's a different story then we figure out how much do how
much more do we need or do I give you the schedule that says we can fit this in comfortably everything you're obligated to and pay it off and let's just say save say 17 years whatever the schedule have to be and it leaves room
for an additional amount of capital work every year of whatever the numbers out to be and I can give it to you that way then you can use that you can say okay this is our budget for capital for the next five years if we spend X per year on capital we can roll it in with
everything we're already currently obligated to and have no increase to taxpayer and I give you what that number would be. Then you have a target that says okay our capital wish list for the next five years is this. Now we
prioritize because our money is this and where where do you find that? >> Well, we're still talking about I don't think I disclosely >> $735,000. I know some of the
grant we did not get that grant. No, we did not. >> You're talking about just having EV together. >> They're both for 62.7 Hen together is 775, >> right? So construction cost 475, right? Like even when we did the tiny
lot behind uh safety building that was like six figures. So this is like >> and we're working with the developer. We did not get the grant from the EV charging which is 300. So we did however get a grant for level two charger like
10% of the price. There could be a consideration to just do a level two charger developer has three chargers. They want to keep them private to make them public. They don't have any obligation to do that. But we couldn't reduce the
grant to 300 by just doing level two. That's >> what the difference between. So electric a fast charger is like 20 minutes like plug it like a gas station you're sitting there for a few hours and what are these >> and what are we having
>> two or you go there you got three to four hours are we again new to the game are we obligated to give that parking lot a facelift break down like it becomes ours because
municipality has to have fresh concrete. >> I would recommend as the engineers do it hand in hand. >> Yeah. So that's why you do it because it's going to be built in conjunction >> and it also I think you'll you'll net
more you can get the plan but you're going to net more spaces but there's a drive there's a drive >> right the reconfigure will spaces >> but they're going to have I guess I'm asking is there a way to do the engineering planned for tell me
about like you know system. >> Yeah. could be still paying with engineering, still fund whatever our fortune of it would be for the shared drive aisle, the efficiency that we would gain from doing it with the
developer of the other half. But like >> they're want to do their construction and we're going to want to do our construction at the same time. >> Forget the planning cost. >> Remember, you're opening this up as a public parking, >> right?
>> So it and it's really not safe. So you're gonna people coming in at park and going to dinner walking through potholes and over curving and like it's just not a it's not a good idea.
It's best to do that. Yeah. They're not going to wait for 27. >> We're still talking about 627. We were just saying that for numbers. >> We were just saying that we're not sure what time of year this is happening. We're hoping that it's bad so that we can have the 1.3. But if we're saying that there is a delay and you're saying push it to 27th, take it off at this. Is
that what you're suggesting? >> Or just see if there's a way to I mean especially what you just said like the tape of this that like or cut it in half and fund whatever h actually happened in 2026.
And I would recommend funding it fully. So we're prepared to move in conjunction. >> You don't usually do it in half. You do it half means you're going to stop construction. >> Now what we can do is >> right. We can drop a large portion of the 2000 if you want to.
>> Yeah. >> That's a that's So is there >> that's >> And can't we just apply for put in a level two and then apply for a grant next year for level one or like you have to do that before? If you go with fast charging the infrastructure required fast charging
much bigger ticket right do all >> level two is a much lighter so you would not put in a level two and then retroactively try to do that would be >> a ton more work right you're double pay
>> like you can plan for the the fast charger and plan for that those costs or just But again the developer wants to put in three there state requirements now are there
for 100% but we can >> right I would like to convin them to make them public because it would be silly for us to have five >> and they can make fun of >> so what we're working through is the requirements
I want to make sure we satisfy it right >> but this is even if you're going to knock the 300 not do the finished chargers I don't know that I would take any money at least for sorry I don't want to say knock 300 out tires but much smaller
>> because whatever does whatever doesn't get spent on this in the project it gets delayed doesn't matter then god forbid the doors of the community center don't get done they're >> done so but it then it just falls with certain >> that's right
>> it just helps >> you can't be about 775 versus the door 800 >> I understand that's all >> but I think I think your point is just as we're looking to your question what
are are we doing this year and next year? We're spending $500,000 on a parking lot >> will go up, but >> your total improvement fund that's in the budget goes into a separate fund that's like a savings account. So even if you don't spend it, it's there for next year.
>> I know you're trying to see where you can lessen this year's budget and I completely understand that. But >> we started out with 850,000. If we put 525 in and then we do all of these projects, we're gonna have $200. So in next year's budget, >> yeah,
>> you're not have anything over there. So even if you don't do those projects, you have something to get started with next year, which would help next year's budget, too. I appreciate that. >> It's not good news if we don't do the project, but if we don't and the money
rolls over because this whole budget is just the plan. It's not what we think that's going to happen. >> Exactly. another sheet down. >> No, there wasn't another sheet that I want to go through, but just, you know, as a just a quick reminder on the effect
of this budget on future business. Our health insurance is going up $683,000 >> and we're only raising the tax levy $600,000. So, we're not even meeting that. And I just and I'm just warning
you about cutting into that 3.2 cent increase too much because you need just for continuing operations you need, you know, >> and we're nowhere near and we have ability that can be higher.
>> No, the 145 the levy. >> Yeah, the levy. >> There's plenty of that. So that's you can only spend it on things that are outside the caps, >> right? No, no, I'm not I'm not talking about increasing spending. I'm just saying to your point that like 145 like
gets like tripping over the finish line, right? >> And it's still like >> I close my eyes and it's like the 91 from last year and then our average increase has been between what like 70 and 100 over the last 10 years, right? 50 and 100. So let's call it 75. So 75
plus 90 is 165 and we're and we're at 145. Should we at the very least do 165? And like yes, we did what we had to last year, but like we also need to be responsible looking forward and like it's not fun. No one likes increasing taxes, but like
this is just making up for for last year, which is really just like a uh kick the can down the road a year to help in your like even 165 now $40 a quarter. So it's not I would increase the what you're charging people. I would not put things
in that you don't have like 222. >> I'd get you any recommendation besides the 222 school that you would like to get a budget out of your >> I well nothing that's nothing that can be changed now. I would have slowed the pace of other stuff.
>> I would slow the pace of other stuff. >> Okay. >> But there's nothing to be done now. It's been it's committed this agreement that you have is the 222 at this point. Um well >> where we are now I I know what you're saying >> for this budget today like yeah the one
the one change we can make is don't spend the 222 let it fall keep it keep it in where you got it let it fall surplus give yourself a fight chance each year I wouldn't spend you but no
to both. >> Can I ask? >> Yes. Just because of the timing of the interview on the budget and the one point, do we have an alternative if we don't want to include that man revenue? Are you going to just take it from
surplus? Are you going to increase your taxes more? Do we have a secondary plan? It's possible they might. >> So, so if if if we were um so if the 13 comes out, we don't anticipate.
>> Okay. Can we just raise taxes three? >> Okay. >> You have you have that, right? So that and that's outside the cap. doesn't affect our appropriations. Like, doesn't it get funky in what we could use that for?
>> No, you're you're not because you're replacing one revenue, the $1.3 million property sale. It's just revenue. So, it just remember you're you're you're golden on the tax levy side. You could raise another $2.8 million and still be under
the cap. spending side is where we're >> so that would be roughly if it's 145 now it would be triple that >> right it would be adding it would be adding another 320 is that
290 390 420 on top it' be like >> 550 650 close to 600 >> close to 600 >> something >> that's that's nuclear >> right >> that's nuclear So I guess >> we've been holding on to
>> the you know >> like like I'm just saying that was a decision that was made and that was money that surplus the problem. The pro you just went over what the issue is. The issue is that the spending increase in police and fire
salaries last year. If you don't do that, if you don't do that, there's no mean. The difference is we had big jumps on the the uniform contracts which we went over. You know, everybody I think was kind of aware of it and then we didn't
raise any revenues, >> right, >> because of all the school stuff. Insurance. >> Yeah, insurance is good. But the big tickets were don't bring in any revenue and greatly increase our expenditures,
>> right? $683,000 of that economic >> last year been this year. Yeah. Yeah. It's double bubble. >> I got No, no, no. I I got a call. Thanks you guys. >> Oh yeah.