start. Um, I apologize for the the delay. We were some of us were coming from other uh meetings happening at other schools. So, uh, we're still waiting on Dr. McDow, but we're going to go ahead and get started. Uh, we'd like to call this meeting to order. On Tuesday, April 21st, the committee of the whole meeting, um, adequate notice
of this meeting has been provided. So, uh, Mrs. Coleman, roll call, please. >> Mrs. Brown, >> here. >> Mr. Chu, >> here. >> Mr. Craig, >> here. >> Mrs. Demarco >> here. >> Mrs. Divine >> here. >> Mrs. Mcowsky >> here. >> Mrs. Sherman >> here.
>> Mrs. Z >> here. >> Mr. McMillan >> here. >> Mr. Dulus >> here. >> Mrs. Maya >> here. >> Uh, can we please stand for the pledge of allegiance? All right. Can I make a motion to enter a committee of the whole, please? >> So moved. >> Second.
>> Second. >> All right. I believe we have um someone here to present. >> All in favor? I'm sorry. Thank you, Matt. I >> thank you. And I believe we have someone here to present. So I'll toss it over to
you. So, good evening. I'm Matt McKen. I'm Matt McKenzie and uh I'm here to talk about the flexibly assigned student transition program. So, there are 12 more slides, five to 10 minutes. So, really what we do is we collect
geographic data, student numbers, addresses, schools, and grade levels. Um, we'll plot those students in a uh geographic information system, a map. And uh we'll apply a proprietary algorithm. We look at we'll measure the
driving distance or the walking distance between each address and each school. And we could we could identify some optimization scenarios. Things like um if you if we know the capacity of certain buildings and the distance to the school and what those class size
guidelines are, the computer we use an artificial intelligence algorithm to for the computer to tell us really what the optimal assignments would be so that those distances would be either minimized or things like we can maximize walkers for example, whatever you want.
And uh we'll ident you know we'll identify those and provide actionable information for the superintendent and communicate any opportunities any chances to save money or uh any other ways we could add value. And every year we'll provide quality metrics things
like the percentage of students going to closer schools the uh the decrease in total commute distance or time and uh the number of additional walkers. for example. So, everyone probably thought that there's a better way to assign students
to schools. Uh, most school districts uh use fixed cachment areas or some other subjective criteria. The scope of this service is really to aid the community um with the Garfield school closure uh supporting the the
assignment of students from there and also with the kindergarten assignments over the over the summer. And I think what's good about this program is nobody has to learn any software. They don't they don't have to operate it. We'll build we'll create the program. It changes every month and we'll show the
administrators and the board what they want to see and we'll conduct Zooms to to um walk the the district to through any kind of decisions they need to make and uh we're right there along there with with you operating it.
So really the problem is and this is everywhere in the country all 13,000 or so school districts to have multiple schools small has lead to like very high variability of numbers of students either year over year or across the
district. Uh it results in dispar class sizes and more classrooms and then schools uh than needed. Uh oftentimes a school district that's say has multiple elementary schools. You might
have a fourth grade class, for example, with 16 students right next to a fourth grade class again in the same district with maybe 24 students. So, we're endeavoring to fix that. We also found that approximately uh 25 uh to 30% of
students end up going to a school that's not their closest one. We want to fix that as well. Uh our considerations uh prioritize uh student needs, any kind of special education, multilingual uh learners, any
kind of family needs, uh siblings staying together, minimizing distance, sending them to closer schools when it's all possible. Uh we uh were concerned about equity, equity needs. So not just having class sizes leveled across the district. It's not only you know good
for and fair for the students but it's also uh fair more fair for the teachers as well. Look at the facility re realities the capacity number of classrooms available is uh you know one of the inputs we use and of course the
fiscal realities. So really the solution is just using modern uh operations management practices. I like telling uh as many people that would listen is we really don't have financial problems uh oftentimes are just operations management problems. So we we're just
being flexible, proactive and and using systemwide thinking. In this case, we're combining geographic information systems with business analytics and artificial intelligence for to optimize the placements and to tell a story to to show you how good the
district can be. And it allows everybody to be very very thoughtful when assigning new students to schools so that your objectives are met. Really, the only way we're ever going to solve the operations management problem anywhere is with a dynamic system that
utilizes geographic information systems and data analytics. So, here's an example of the of the of the GIS tool that's in use for your neighbor Haden Township School District. We'll build this. It could look
something like this. It could look totally different, but this is an example of um the rising kindergarter tool last summer. We see in the upper left hand the graphs there that if we if we didn't do anything and if they just relied on fixed catchment areas with a
maximum class size of 25, they would have needed nine uh kindergarten classrooms. But we're simply just solving the puzzle very easily, intuitively, visually with this program. And within a few minutes, we can send students to
closer schools, minimize the travel, and get this down to just seven seven classrooms needed within this within this tool. Also, there's things like multiple layers. We can do things like show the students that are that are assigned to a school
that's not their closest one. We could just tell this show what it would look like if everyone looked at if everyone went to their closest school, which is impossible, of course, based on capacities of the buildings. And uh we could filter by certain uh grade levels or certain schools also and build some
maps for you. So, we're not just uh saving for like a typical five elementary school district that's kindergarten through fifth grade, sixth grade levels. In this case, you're not just saving two classrooms per year. It's actually it combines every year.
So, over the course of those six years, it's 12 12 classrooms. And at at an average cost of about $150,000, we can save approximately $1.8 million a year. All a program that's very very inexpensive. We run it for you. It's
very easy to use and it's and I would say it's actually easier to use and it's cheaper than your current systems. Here's an example of the enrollment report. Um kind of shows you that the enrollment doesn't just change yearover-year like the October enrollment from one year to the next. It
also changes uh month to month. But you may see reports monthtomonth even even at a certain uh grade level it may seem like every month it's the same number but typically throughout the year during that month there might be two students move uh two families moving in with two
students at a grade level and two students leaving at the same time. So there's always this is just to show you that there's always opportunities to level class sizes and send students to closer schools because dur during the school year this is what the will probably look like
something like this where it shows you what those uh numbers are for each uh school. And uh in the bottom lefthand corner is an example of a table that shows you what those class sizes are in this case for the elementary schools. So that as the registar
collects information for new families moving in if this if there's a family that lives between two schools right between two schools. Say the walk between two schools. One has say one third grade class has 26 students. The other one has 20 students. You could
very easily make a good value decision to send students to the school with the lower class size. So I guess I could stop right there and uh ask if there's any questions. That's yeah that's like I think and I think that's light that's the typical uh
teacher salary benefits any technology any classroom level costs I think it's about tends to average about $150,000 then there's also building level costs on top of that >> right >> yes no that would be something addition
to additional to that >> another number that you put out there was 30% or so of students don't go to their closest elementary school. Is that just sort of nationwide or is that are those numbers based on Collingswood or >> you know? Yeah, good question. I've been
studying this for about 10 years looking at the districts with with multiple elementary schools. Of course, districts with just one school, there's no other opportunity. But those with multiple elementary schools, you tend to see that, believe it or not, because over the years with these older schools and neighborhoods changing, they'll just
have band-aid solutions through red redistricting process where they just add they just tack on a certain uh neighborhood say to a school to kind of just balance out the uh the number of students for the school instead of looking at the actual classrooms and lowering the class sizes and looking at
things holistically and assigning students really. And I think what's great also is is once you go through, you know, school buildings or uh school closures, you're really just looking at the new students, just the new students as they show up, just making these decisions so that they they then go to
the closer schools. >> To be piggy back off that really quickly, I actually had a chance to do the walking distance analysis uh back in 2024 for 2024 2025 school year because of uh a proposal friend that time and it
was 28.4% 4% of students in that school year in Kingswood uh were not going to their closest elementary school. So it's actually very much so in line with what what you have found over the years. Um something that uh I saw which is that the proposal here is um annual price of
of 5,000 for uh through I guess next year. Is it is that correct? >> Right. I just want to start and that's just a promotional price. I really want to get to a point where I charge $5,000. I'm sorry. uh $5 per enrolled student every year, but it just this you know
just said half of half of that price for the for the all of next year. So through uh June 30th of 2027. >> So the so the anticipated uh continuation price you said would be $5 per enrolled student,
>> right? About 10,000 hopefully. >> How We Yes. Yes. >> Yeah. Often times some GIS companies would take months to get data and plot. We could do it within a day. And we're springloaded. are scheduled that Thursday to get the data in the morning and uh give you we'll have a meeting um
that Friday afternoon for the initial you know run through of the placements. Um, a couple I think maybe uh pieces for your GIS folks. Uh, something when I did do the analysis a couple years ago, some kind of gotchas that to mention are that
the uh depending on what data set you're using, whether whether it be open maps or or Google's uh the actual front door for the Park View apartments are uh can be very different than than actually where they're supposed to be. And so so that can really skew distances. So you
might want to check into that. Um, also, you know, a question of, for example, I live next to Metropolitan Apartments as well within Kingswood. And then I'm not exactly sure how accurate those by apartment, uh, front doors are. And so, uh, those were, I think, a couple of of
just kind of got to to keep in mind that given how small our district is, can significantly skew, um, uh, walking distances when you do the calculations. >> Thanks. Um this I'm sorry no >> a question just around um because you're
I guess we're getting what what information does your company then get like student specific information do you get from uh our district and then what what are the pieces to ensure that that data is safe? So yeah, we'll we'll
follow through with all the laws. We just get the um just the student numbers. We don't get any names. So there's no fura issues there with that names, addresses, uh schools and and grade levels. And if there's any other information like English as second language, you know, multilingual
learners or any kind of IEPs, anything like that you want us to, you know, you know, level class sizes for them as well. We'll we'll keep those secure also. So then maybe this might be then a staff question about when we get that
information is it then we're going and taking and looking at what was shared and then matching that up with the actual kids to see where placements are to check for that like what would the follow through then be on our side so that we're not just taking what's spit up by a computer but
actually looking at where where kids are going. Can I add this might this question actually directly ties to that so maybe an answer both in one and this might be a question for you Dr. Mattel um is this like I know that it says on the um agreement that's on attached the
agenda can enable the user to edit assignments using the edit update feature. So like for things like that um siblings like are you know I assume siblings since they're coming from the same address would be similar but we had also talked about the potential for um working groups from different schools to
have some sort of say in where some of these families are going. I don't know if that's Matt what you were or maybe I misunderstood. >> So the the working group is more around the continuity of care. How are we going to receive students and families at each
campus? What are some of the expectations? How are we welcoming folks? Um and then what are some of the other considerations that the receiving school will need in order to receive students? And so looking at it from that perspective in terms of the assignment process
um the looking at the inputs u and then cross referencing that with our enrollment data with our um student information system in order to make sure that those pieces line up. And so the GIS system helps will help us to um plan
for where students go. It actually is not it doesn't automatically assign them in the in the in the system. Right. Yeah, that's a good question. The uh the computer just kind of shows what those optical assignments might look like. I don't run it myself. I'll just
This is just a tool for the for the administration uh team to to actually utilize. I'll just be supporting them on a Zoom call. And that was to answer the question before. Um right. Yeah, you would never just trust what the computer says about this assignment this and the these students in this neighborhood go
to this school and this one go to the other for the because the computer really is going to care if a student if like three students say the culde-sac goes to one school and one another one the one the fourth person in a culde-sac say goes to another school. I like saying it's a science and an art. You want to have that human person in the
loop looking at that providing some quality assurance. So so we're very very thoughtful and the objectives are met. Oh, no. Um, I'm not sure, uh, Dr. McDow, if this will be for you or, um, Bethanne, um, can you just tell us a little bit about the system we use now
to, um, to do this job? >> Going to embarrass the district now. Um, no, it's it's very antiquated. We have literally photographic maps kind of like what was on the slide of like Haden Township but like blown out with like names of the schools kind of plopped
where they are. Um and then we have there's a list of basically typed out like street addresses and like if you live in this area you go here and it's kind of done by hand um by the p the attendance person and the and the board office the person registering. In a lot
of cases though where it gets messy for us is with our having such small elementary schools let's say happens every year schools already started and then we get an influx of people Zayn is full okay great now where do we put them so then we got to call all the
principles you know you know to see how many spots are available for the for that child of a certain grade level so in some a lot of cases we're placing kids that live in the zane catchment they're going to where's it new or actually it depends But wherever there's a seat in that particular grade level is
where they wind up going. So it's um it's not always an automatic like we can tell the tell the parent that day, oh this is where your child's going to go. Sometime it's like get the information, we'll contact the principal, we'll get back to you. So in in a nutshell, did I hopefully I characterized it correctly?
It's it's not it it hasn't been a very um perfect system. >> How long how long would you estimate it takes to do that if you had to put hours on couple hours. I mean, it depends. It gets a trickier. Um, if the child has an
IEP or they have a physical handicap, then there's only like two buildings they can go to. So, we have to involve the principal um to make sure that they can accommodate the child. So, depending on the situation, sometimes it's like they come in, they register, they know the next day. Sometimes they come in on
Thursday, maybe it's Monday. Sometimes we have two principles trying to figure out which one can accommodate. Guess then with the with what with with what we're going to have to do now though like with with Garfield and re and like reassigning kids like how if we kept
went with our current approach how long would that take versus using this? I think that's what I'm trying to get around is how much time would this >> a couple of weeks because it's it's a it would be a manual student by student process
parallel to everybody already doing their their other work. So we don't have an individual that just sits and this is all that they do all day and so it would take a couple weeks >> and it's not a perfect I would be worried about
family specific you know with us rushing to get it done. I would want to make sure that it's it's correct. So, I just want to make sure I'm understanding that we're looking to pay $5,000 and then $5 per student
essentially for a software platform to support work that I think we've articulated is in progress. So maybe I'm still trying to figure out it um the timing of this and what um
just seems a little hard for me to square because on the road we've been saying these are all the things we're accounting for. We're already in progress with doing these assignments and re assignments. So maybe I'm not appreciating
the need to go into a modernized system right now when we have several asking >> square that. >> Okay. >> In balancing this budget, we've eliminated a person out of the board office. So the person that would be
responsible for doing this, that position has been eliminated and combined with my retiring administrative assistant. So, we will not have a full-time person with where this is basically half of their job. So, having an automated system would a make it
quicker and we could have one or two people in the board office with the software that could do this versus one person who has been dedicated for at least half of her FTE to do this. Um, that position has been eliminated. So, >> so I guess probably should with
>> the half NFTt that supported enrollment and catchment and cost assignments is no longer filled at a position, right? >> And so we're looking to augment that half an FTE salary with an investment in technology. Is that what I should
do? Do we see an FT.5 reduction for this investment in technology? I guess is what I'm asking. Are we going to right are we able to balance it in that way? Because that's just how it was described. >> Real quick, is this like a oneanddone payment or is this some model?
>> It's anual annual >> It's an annual >> I I guess I'm really confused about what the confusion is. It's it's a so it's $5,000 for this first year. Then in the following years it' be $10,000 per year to run this this type of work, right? I mean, when we talk about like a modern system, this is I mean, sorry, I don't I
don't want to like offend your company, right? But this isn't even like a modern system. This is just like this is like a system, right? Whereas before we were literally using pieces of of paper to try to and like rulers, I'm assuming to try to like figure out where our students are. Uh this is sorry this is
not to short sell your platform but I'm just saying like it's it's like we're not we're like going from the the stone ages to you know the bronze age here right like it's not like we're going to like >> so I can appreciate that but I also want to just offer we've been on the road
bringing people along on having to reassign 113 students and I would hope as a parent they are not hearing that we've been using paper and hope to get this right right like we also have to manage how this message is being heard
by our community and families who are anxiously awaiting this assignment. I get it. I'm not I just think we have to square. >> Let me let me let me interject. >> We're kind of already doing this to be honest. >> Let me let me interject because I think that I want to make sure that we're not we're not going down the rabbit hole. At
the end of the day, um, a net loss of 33 positions means that without us, uh, acquiring systems and tools, the work does not get done. And so at the end of the day um based on the complexity of
what we believed we were facing we started looking at multiple options for a system and then started sampling for proof of concept so that we would know what to make in terms of recommendation to to the board and so how we could actually inform families of what we were
planning. If we have to do this manually um then then it it will take much longer and what that means is there's a cost there is a cost associated with that and so what that could mean is that we shut down the office we stop allowing we stop
answering phone call I mean we do all of these different things in order to make sure that we're actually able to deliver what we said we're able to deliver paired with we need a more uh uh secure and um uh verifiable way in order to
make these decisions that is not solely dependent on one individual looking at multiple pieces of paper and then hoping that we get it right due to the complexity of not just the Garfield closure but also kindergarten assignment with us being able to scale up in the
future of also using this for where do we put new programs where do we have space within our buildings for additional services like all of those core pieces and so yes uh with the reduction of of of staffing, which we
might see about a $50,000 savings that's being redirected into schools. We believe that a $5,000 ask um was was appropriate. >> I appreciate that, CL. Right. Like that helps a lot. May I ask a question of
what other districts are you working with? >> So, there's just the one uh Hadenfield is the one paying district now, but however, I've helped several many districts. Uh New England school district, we had that in this slide deck. uh Burwick school district when they came one of the poorest districts
in Pennsylvania used this program to see where their students would go when they closed an elementary school and several others to show u you know what the value could be >> by by just uh using some modern technology to assign students how much
closer students would would be the the net savings uh estimated savings for transportation of course as well as uh you know key metrics for the board. So I guess how you have one paying district and then how many other districts have used this to success to like proof of
concept? It sounds like you have some that are proof of concept mode. >> So how many would that be? Five or six. >> Three others. >> Three others. >> This Yeah, this technology is new right now. >> It's new, but it's the only way you're ever going to be able to objectively
assign students uh equitably and efficiently. >> So >> can I ask a clarifying question? Oh, I'm sorry, Roger. >> Well, I was going to mention about the the software piece. Uh, and you know, this is actually the building these type
of applications is actually the type of work that I I I do for a a living. Um, and I will put this out there. $5,000 for a year of for this type of software is extraordinarily reasonable. Um because you have to uh not only do you
need to have the people who understand the uh uh the API calls, you have to understand the the different data sources you're going in. You have to be able to store the data securely. You have to be able to uh uh uh maintain uptime on on the application. Uh you
have to have content area expertise like all of these type of things. Like I'm not going to lie, when I saw $5,000, I was actually surprised. That's why I asked about what's the follow-up cost there, right? Uh I expect again uh this is not to say raise your prices but I'm saying that when you said 10,000 you know I was like oh is it 5,000 and then
we're going up to like 50,000 in future right so my point there being that like for this type of application on the board here this is the very reasonable price um and if you were to like I think most people who uh think
schools like what schools do when they assign kids to schools they Like most of us probably think that yes, we schools go and look at walking distance, right? But like that costs money to get and I
bet you most small districts don't. And so again, my point being that I I absolutely agree with what Mr. McKenzie is saying about how you need this type of data in order to be able to to assign students more accurately. >> So let me add a little additional
complexity. And so, um, initially I put this call out to all of the superintendents in Camden County. And so, all of the superintendents in Camden County, there are 39 of us, we are all on, uh, text chains and we have weekly conversations about a myriad of topics.
Uh, and so when I put the call out about how we're um, districts doing this, um, hadn't answered the call. And so I went over to Haden Township. uh they demoed their system for me and they introduced me to uh Matt's company. We also got
other vendors um with existing uh uh products with companies that we already do business with. And Nomad, I'm not advocating for you to increase your prices, but in terms of the actual cost of acquisition and ongoing maintenance, um some of the other companies were uh
quadruple the price just for the setup fees. that didn't include the annual subscription. >> So I have a couple of questions for you. Um my first question is during your presentation uh you were talking about how if I understood you correctly that
there are you you find out through the process of going through this from year to year that kids are not necessarily where they need to be. Is there a process to which you see us moving kids around from year to year? >> So good question. Yeah. So, we're just
focusing on new students, just the new students as they register. And throughout the year, throughout the year, like every month, we're going to be updating this. And so, it's continuous and we'll be a tool that'll be live for the administrators to always look at the new students registering
where they should go. So, it's it's new students. Unless you unless you close a school or build a new school, there's really no need to redistrict anywhere anymore with this with this program. This is the only program out there. Dr. McDow probably saw a lot of there's lots of company well several companies that
do that provide redistricting software where they I believe in my opinion it's the height of hubris to say for the next five or six years these are the borders where students on this side of the street or this numbered house or higher should go to that school. It's not the way to solve this problem. You have to look at where students are where their
individual individual needs are and only our program would be would enable it. >> Sure. I can appreciate all that. I mean right now we're facing a a huge budget crisis. So the you know um swallowing this financially is a little bit of an issue for our community I think as well as for some of us. Um but I see the
benefit uh just right now is a little bit difficult time to be talking about this even though I see that I see the the circumstances we're in. Uh my other question is how many years do you see yourself with us doing this? So it's 5,000 this year and then 10,000 from here and after until when?
>> So great question. So there's no there's not going to be a certain amount of years uh obligation. It's just every year it could be stopped at any given any time. >> And sorry just to clarify, was it 10,000 or was it $5 per student? Five per student. >> So So it's okay. So it's $5,000 for from
now through the end of next June June 30th. >> Was it was it five was it $5 a student after that? >> And then after that I would like to get you know we'll negotiate this. We'll talk about this depending on your needs and what you what your able to do >> and that would just be elementary students, right? Because we wouldn't
need this for the middle or high school. >> That's my question. The middle and high school is one building, so we don't need >> it has capacity um districtwide. And so I think one of the things that working with a smaller company allows us to do is it allows us to customize based on our needs. A lot of your your larger
entities um there are tens of thousands of dollars in setup fees every time you want to make a a module change. Whereas uh with a smaller organization, a more a local organization allows us to be more flexible and to work in in in
partnership. >> I have a question about um what um Bethan said about once school begins and we have an influx of students and figuring out where they're going to go. Um obviously that that could lead to some additional stress at the beginning
of the year. How would your system provide a better pathway than um somebody at our district level picking up the phone and finding out who has room in their school for a new student.
You know what I mean? So like in in how would your how would your program help us >> because we would >> do that more efficiently? >> Like we would have like you wouldn't have to send it to somebody at Mark's company that's then or Matt's company who's then doing it. It's like we have
the program and see we see who has the openings at which schools and then can make that decision. So, I guess let's make sure I'm So, we're $5,000. And I'd hope that given that others have had a proof of concept year, I would love some
grace in that approach because I'm still trying to understand, are we essentially going to run this for every elementary school student and possibly recast where they are today based on the software where the selling point and value of this software was that it smoothed out
and redistributed students, which is not what we're doing for all schools. So, I do want to understand We have one that is getting absorbed. We have kindergarten classes happens every year. The value proposition is all students
can be rebalanced and redistributed. As a parent who has one that's super close and almost the second furthest, I understand, but it's for a reason, right? It is. Um, and so I I want to appreciate are you selling us a product that we based on needs today only need
to understand how to move students from this one to all of the others versus looking at our entire elementary school catchment logic and recasting where everybody goes. I I'm just trying to understand our intent beyond just these two initial
opportunities. Are we really opening up to full recatchment which is the opportunity that is presented in these slides as the return on our investment? So what one of the things that we asked for Matt to share um with the board was the the capability of the solution. And
so for the purpose of today and the purpose of the next 60 days, um we need assistance with the Garfield school closure kindergarten registration. When we start moving into the summer, we would be using it for the purpose of
whenever we have young people moving in um monthly there are monthly uploads of the data to make sure that we're keeping uh correct inventory on where young people are to be able to make informed decisions about where students get uh
assigned when they come in. should the board decide to take on the topic of uh redistricting, this uh program has the capability of doing that. Um and so it also builds capacity for future discussion should the board decide
that's the the direction they want to go. So, I guess >> I was going to ask if um like a stipen opportunity for an existing uh employee was explored, somebody who would do this work in this time crunch instead of
doing a program, getting somebody who knows our students and knows our schools and asking them to put in a little bit of extra work for a stipen. Due to the complexity um of the work, we wouldn't have a a regular employee u do
this. Um the technical skills required to do this are pretty sophisticated. Um none of our administrators have the skills to be able to do to do this type of work. Uh and based on the current
contractual rates, um it would probably significantly exceed $5,000. Matt, that is not a reason for you to increase your rates for the promo. >> If I if I was able to ask a question, I would ask I wish you told me those prices before we before I committed to
coming up. Now, I'm happy to help. Look, I'm basically maybe shouldn't be telling you this stuff, but I'm basically running a charity here. This is costing me money. I'm paying an analyst to do this for you. I'm thrilled to be able to help you guys out. I drove around the school district today. you need some
help and I can help you and I believe I'm the only one that can. I guess I'm just struggling from the point of view of outsourcing decisions that I feel should be calling decisions and I understand that there'll be a
level of like review but that's like what I'm struggling with is that we're telling a community we're that we're closing their schools their school and that we're outsourcing the decision of where to send their students >> but it's not the decision that is being he's not making this company is not
making the decision the decision this presents information. The decision is made by the administrative team in the district. >> So that that's and I think that's really important. Hopefully the public hears that. Um it is not >> that's fine. You can give the clarity without >> I know but I'm saying like it's not I
really want to make sure that that's clear because there's a lot of misinformation floating around. This would as Dr. Martell stated this would present us information quickly, accurately and in real time. And as who
also works in a district who is looking at potentially consolidating or regionalizing the co this cost is a bargain to do this kind of work. Um administrators you know
are so overwhelmed with the nightmare that is the beginning of the school year and the summer cleanup to have a system like this that then just presents everything quickly is huge. So I I think it's important to understand that this
is not making decisions. This is presenting data accurately. And we're in a district that already, you know, sends kids to this like what 28% as of two years ago of our students
were not going to the school closest to them. So we already have something that needs to be re-evaluated re-evaluated anyway. um this would be a great opportunity >> would this be able to accelerate the time frame for get sharing where people
will go right like if we're going to have a speed to impact right I one I think how we framed like hey we don't we we are saving on the people the people power no longer exists you need a system just like you need any other program software we are asking to invest in a
software to replace $50,000 of people power we don't have today that helps and will the decisions be made faster? Right? So once you get the information from the software, will families know sooner where their potential placements are? Because I think that there has to
be a balance here is accelerating decisions and information sharing is the only way that we probably can square some of I I get it, but I think the timing just is a little deeply unfortunate. So like is that possible?
Can this be done? Can families know their placement by the 1st instead of the ETH or Right. That's what >> No. And so the the the original uh date um was established by the school. The school asked for us to wait until the
ETH because there were some culture and some community building work that they wanted to do. And so that's the reason why the ETH was selected. And so in the long term, in answer to your original question, does this uh shorten the window of decision- making? AB:
Absolutely. Because it reduces the labor intensive nature of a of a historically manual process that has been manual for about 25 years. And so we're not even stepping into 2026, we're stepping into like 2010.
is how much does I mean this is not an immediate but a potential down the road thing given conversations that we've been having about regionalization would this help us to either plot out or like have some information about where distribution of kids might end up if we
did regionalize with other districts >> Matt you want to answer that >> so that's a great question I'm having a a very serious in-depth conversations now with the state of Vermont Vermont is is uh going through a process now where they want to combine many school districts and this is the
tool that's going to allow them to save money and do it quickly and efficiently and objectively and equitably. So I think only a program like this would allow you to to um proactively in real time um with the actionable information
assigned to students. But really Dr. Physicero next door at Haden Township. He what he really likes this program best for is this the um the uh strategic planning aspects of it. We're able to like to model things and tell stories
and uh download data and compile that data for you along with some some really good maps to show you what these things would look like. >> So you're working at Haden Township and Hadenfield. >> Haden Township. Sorry. Did I say did I say Henfield? >> Yeah, I'm sorry. my cousins went ahead and fueled it and my uncle was a
firefighter there for a long time. when you say that the uh state of Vermont is looking to regionalize. So that's coming from that state's department of education. >> Uh yeah, hopefully I'm not talking out of school here. Literally within a school, but uh their whole their whole
government is looking right now. Act 73, if you're if you're curious to see how this is done and how it's done. Well, >> no state in the country has has a has a handle on the the right number of students per school district on average. And Vermont is being very very
progressive and they see the costs right now. They're the second highest cost in the nation cost per student about $27,000 per year per student, second only to New York State. And the reason for that is the very small school districts and the inefficient way that they're assigning students.
>> Oh, sure. No, I I just wanted to clarify because um New Jersey is not there yet. So, >> yes, I've been I've been trying to convince So, I guess I'd like to revisit the the the framing of this because I think there's a lot coming at us as a board and so just making sure that we
understand what's going on here. So essentially um for our consideration as a board uh what we're we're seeing is basically that uh regarding currently the next coming year when it comes to uh the students at Garfield who are going
to be placed at other schools. Um the promise has been made that families will find out by May 8th. And so today, uh, the, uh, district has put forth, uh, a plan in front of the board to help make
sure that that gets done on time. Um, is is that correct? Okay. So, this is part of that plan. At the same time, I see in the personnel committee section that there is uh a resolution up that for the board to consider which is to uh
eliminate a position in the board office uh for uh that typically does this type of work. Correct. So essentially uh the proposal in front of us is uh partly uh to find cost savings in some
place uh while also bringing in a tool that will enable us to get the placements done within the time period that we have promised families. >> Yeah. So this is to present a software that will has already there is a
recommendation for how to balance and create the space to pay for. I think the framing Roger to your point is really helpful to connect those two things because without it it just is plus instead of actually savings in the
aggregate presumably. So >> are you are you saying that the promise that we made to families to have their placements by May 8th if we don't hire this program that that deadline is not going to be met.
>> What I'm saying is is that um we we will deliver on the promise to our families. Um how we do it um also matters and how we're building capacity for the the next uh the next project also matters. And so
yes uh come hell or high water, we will make sure that our families get what we what we promised for May 8th. But we're also looking at beyond just May 8th. Um there's other projects that need to to be done. There will be ongoing work that needs to be done and we're going to need help. That's that's the bottom line. We
need we need help. >> Just one other question. Do we anticipate actually needing the annual expense for several years? Right? Because I think to some extent after this initial upstart, it's kindergarten. So I just
want I'm just trying to think through it's is it really five because I think we're saying five for a total student base, but it may only just be kindergarten if that. Um, so I'm just really also trying to maintain that the line item could be up to 10,000 or far less
and possibly. I'm just trying to confirm what are we at what are we also approving to maintain going forward is really the question. Are we saying for the next five years? You know, I just want to >> Isn't it it's correct me if I'm wrong. You said that it could be renewed on an annual basis. So it's something that
could be reviewed by year. >> Yes. >> Yeah. So, it doesn't have to be like, oh, we need it for the next five years, but like, you know, if we're next year's budget is going to be just as tight as this one, like we're going to continue to have to have questions
about consolidation and eventually regionalization and a tool like this, you know, at the cost. Yeah. Like, yeah, 10 grand is more than five grand, but >> No, that wasn't my point really. It was just >> like as as an annual I mean if you renew
it annually I think it'd be worth it, right? >> Yeah. I'm not arguing that. I'm actually asking are we really thinking annually is about kindergarten or annually is about the entirety of our student body. It should be based on need strategic long-term planning, but I'm actually asking because we floated out a 10,000 figure which doesn't square to
kindergarten. So anywhere between K to the whole district presumably could be in the annual renewal. >> I think that we should be we should be thinking about what are our short-term needs and what are our long-term needs. >> Without a longterm
plan for infrastructure, the bottom line is is that the way that schools are built, funded, and operated, um we don't adhere to any of those rules and standards and regulations, which is why we're having such difficult financial
challenges. They don't build small schools anymore um because they're not they're not efficient. um the system and the structures needed for us to to be able to successfully even have planning conversations about long-term strategic
infrastructure. We need tools that can be trusted that will give us really tangible ongoing uh real-time data. And so I think that if the board is uh is interested in topics like regionalization, topics like uh
infrastructure, I want to plant the seed and forecast on the positive side a future partnership with the bureau in terms of the master planning process which uh is is looking at urban development burrow and districtwide in
in unison. Uh we're going to need tools to help us to to have those discussions. And sorry I was asking to balance that often at this table and we say well we have this line item I don't want to revisit this like hey we decided and now
we're carrying it over there's a reason so that we can plan because several I think every meeting we've had if families are expecting more long-term planning. So I'm actually trying to make sure that we are intentional about this is the beginning and supporting our long-term growth and expansion of our district. I'm not saying it's too much
or too high. I'm just trying to give guard rails of what it could potentially be going forward. That is why I mention >> we believe this gives the board significant flexibility in their decision-making process. And so that's really our our crux is to be able to give the board just options to be able
to consider for the future. >> Um so thank you so much for being here tonight. Really appreciate it and sorry for the back and forth conversations with all of us. This is a lot to consider. Um I do have one question regarding your cost. Um, and like like Sakia mentioned, um,
>> are you flexible on cost at all? I know that that's not the the general topic of this conversation, but when you come into the future, like are you saying that my price point is $5,000 for this year and then no matter what, every year thereafter, I am charging you $5 per student for the total enrollment of your
district, or do you break it down by what is needed? I >> I'll tell you, I'm very very flexible. There's you'll have many options. Um can Fred can I just ask a clarifying question? Um you had said that the May 8th date was at the request of the school. Can you just explain what that
meant? Like which school or are you saying Garfield or >> Garfield as the principal asked for? Okay. >> Yes. >> Anybody have any other questions? Okay. Thank you for coming tonight. We appreciate it. Uh, okay. So, uh, we are going to move
on to, uh, well, we're going to skip over section four because I believe that budget presentation is happening next week and not tonight, right? Okay. All right. Um, and then just I always say take a look at the future dates and miscellaneous information to see if there's anything that you need to put on
your calendar. Um, and then, uh, we'll we'll do section six at the next meeting. also when we're voting I presume and then we do not have student reports tonight. >> Um Kelly, quick question. Is the next round table on here on the 7th because I know there were some concerns about advertising. >> That's a great question.
>> I don't see it on the one online. >> Yes, thank you for calling that. >> Um and like I know there was like some feedback about being able to better promote that. Like >> I think timing didn't help us, but yeah, we need to make sure we do the pushes we did before because of a spring break. It kind of help didn't help.
>> Yeah. I mean our Our first one we went out and we talked to the VTs and we asked the bureau to but then everything got messed up when we had to reschedule. So we're going to make a better effort of doing that. So can we make sure that that goes on? Thank you. Yes. Already done. Thank you. Thank you for pointing that out. Yeah.
>> Okay. So um no students. Our superintendence report is going to be uh next week too. All right. So, uh, the public comment section is for the regular board of education meeting which is happening on April 29th. There will
be a second public comment section for you to come up and talk today at the end of the meeting if if you so choose to do so. So, we're going to move on to um section 10, annual appointments and approvals. And I believe Miss Coleman, I'll pass that on to you. >> Yes, that is May the next you're going to hear me talking for quite a while. Um,
so I can go item by item or I can go item by item next week, but this is the rest of our annual reorg meeting. So this is the meeting where we do all of our annual appointments. Um, I can go line by line, but um, pretty much
everything is exactly the same as last year with the exception of um, the sub substitute rates in item 10.30. 30. Um, those rates have been updated and increased accordingly. And I believe
there was one other change. Hold on a second. Um, athletic, we did not change that rate. That comes from the um the athletic department. Um, oh, the official notification in item
10.06, 06 we have um to be in accordance with the new law we list our website. This is where we have to list the papers we advertise in now we um the new law we have to link everything to our public website. So with everybody's approval I'll just next next week I'll go line by line by line by line but this is just
where we approve everything and there's literally been no change from last year um with any of those items. Um going down into >> Bethanne with that and yes you go out for RFPs for each of those and then >> yes so the very first item um item 10.01
we did go out for RFPs >> um and if there should be an attach there is an attachment and you'll see the four RFP eval evaluations um attached um that we received and reviewed the RFPs. Okay.
Um okay. So in section 11.01 is your March um 2026 monthly transfer report. 11.02 is your uh March 2026 monthly financial statements. Uh your cash
report, your cash flow analyses um and balance sheets. So if you have any questions on any of the financial statements, please feel free to let me know. 11.03 03 is your student activity cash report. 11.04 is your food service financial statement. Um, we are still
working on items 11.05 and 11.06. So, I will caution everybody, this is a big agenda, so we're still working on it. Probably going to be working on it through Sunday, Monday. Um, so just kind of FYI on all this, but um, all right. So,
hopping down into item 12, buildings and grounds of finance. Um items 12.01 through 12.08 are all those items that I just mentioned and then I'm going to get into the meat of the agenda. Uh 12.09
is um we did hear back from the county office of education and they did approve our 2026 2027 budget. So um the resolution um is attached here um and it the budget would now be final um as presented. We answered all of their
questions. Um item 12.10 is the official um resolution to close Garfield. I know there's lots of questions. Um only a board of ed can close a school. So um I wrote this
resolution hopefully answering all of the questions because once we approve the resolution, it's got to go to um the county office. It has to go to the Department of Ed, Office of Facilities. So, I try to answer all the questions I thought they might want to know um within the resolution itself. The very last line of the resolution um I did add
um be it further resolved that the board of ed also authorizes Garrison Architects to amend our long reach facility plan to include the closure of Garfield. So, we will have to remove that building from our facility listing. Um so, take a look at that resolution. Um, we looked at it today as an admin team just to
make sure that I I hit on all the the right verbiage, but u, we've been talking about this for quite a while, but um, you guys want me to pause while you guys are reading it? I just want to make sure I I hit on all of the we we were going to land add a little
snarky line like whereas the state of New Jersey fails to fund schools adequately, we therefore. But I figured, well, but then I was going to test it and be like, well, let's see if they actually read what I send them. Um, but we didn't >> have done that. >> I decided to be mature and like maybe
not do it, but I I really I was thinking of doing that, but >> I think um I can probably speak for all of us and say we would have appreciated that for sure. >> Yeah. I mean, yeah, >> this might be a dumb question. with the budget the budget that was approved
>> the one that was sent and was approved did that in that that didn't include language about the closure of a school or that just was the numbers like you're saying >> it was it was the numbers okay >> it was in some of the Q&A that went back and forth to the county superintendent she is aware that included in this building because they
did ask oh we see that this line item decreased and we see that you know can we answer they are aware um the resolution obviously will memorialize it so then what we have to do after we pass this resolution. Um I uh a letter has to go to the county superintendent drafted
by the superintendent including this resolution. Um that also has to go to the office of facilities. So we have to like tell a couple people. Um office of facilities we can't do anything with the site like it's even though it's our building we still need approval from
them to close it. So I would need a letter back from them saying the department of ed has reviewed your application to close the school and they accept it. Um, >> were there were there any like concerns from the county about the closure of a school? Like they didn't say like
besides just like you have to give a resolution, you have to make it official. >> Nothing more than like the obvious like they understand, you know, they don't like it, but they they understand the the there's a lot of districts in Camden County that are really struggling this year. So, um, they get it. They just wanted to make
sure um that we were following our process. With them, it all comes back to did you follow the process? So this would be step one in the process. All right. So if everybody's okay with the wording on that, um the next item, item 12.11 is just a
memorializing our approved tuition rates for our send to receive um agreements and any any other miscellaneous uh tuition pupils that pop into the district. Um item 12.12, we were notified by um the Department of Ed um
that we are eligible for $3,256.80 80 cents to um for our water fountains and their refillable bottle stations to for the filters. Um so, Miss Mr. Longo and I are working on getting us that money back. Um item 12.13 is the
contract with the gentleman who just presented um for $5,000 through June of next school year. Item 14 um is a renewal of the uh contract with Neutrier Food Service Management Company. Um
this will be year three of a potential five-year agreement with them for our food service operations. >> Yep. >> Would you prefer questions at the end or? >> Oh, no. As we go. >> Um so the approval for the FATS program u through June of June 30 of next year
typically when does the um process for assigning uh kindergarten begin? Good evening. Is it okay? Good evening everybody. Um, uh, kindergarten registration opens in >> Sorry, am I okay?
>> Yeah. >> Kindergarten registration opens in the spring of every uh year. It is open now. Um, and assignment uh kindergarten building assignments occur um mid July
every summer. All right. Um item 12.15. This is our annual approval for Phoenix Advisors. They're um our bond financial advisors. Um they make sure that I file all of the appropriate documentation with um the
bond holding companies in New York and make sure that our audits prepared correctly. Item 12.16 is an agreement with Gloucester County Special Services School District. So for any child that we send there, they obviously have a a tuition rate and then
they have an added district fee, but there also is a list of other fees for related services that might be provided to the children. So that's just their their fee schedule for 2627. 12.17 is um we have a couple homeless
children. Um so this is um approving an agreement between Collingswood and Gloucester City um for those children that have doiciled in Collingswood. living in Gloucester City. Living in Collinswood, attending school in Gloucester City.
Uh 12.18. Sorry, it's taking a while for my computer. There we go. Um we are happy to uh accept a donation of uh $1,000 from Mr. Mrs. Kyle Chang um for the special education program. So, we thank
you very much. Item 12.19. Come on, computer. >> Yeah, it's like it's all right. Yeah, it's like again it crashed earlier. We were all in the same room going through the agenda and it crashed
on me. So, I'm going to use the paper. 12.19 is um just our shared maintenance agreement with Mount Ephraim. This is on the one of the as needed uh custodial maintenance agreements. um they finally approved it and sent it back. Um the next few are use of facilities. The
first one, item 1220 is I said it wrong today. I said sound of music. It's sound music. They request usually every spring to use our middle school auditorium for their um spring recital. Um and they are paying us a fee of $330. Item 12.21, another use of facilities. This is for
Mr. Softy for the 4th of July. So, for the callings of Fourth of July, they're going to be um they're paying us a fee of $200 to set up um for the 4th of July. Uh 12.22 is um our annual approval of the Collingswood Book Festival is going to be on October 3rd.
Oh, it finally just refreshed. Look at that. Uh 12.23. Another Fourth of July uh use of facility request is for Kona Ice. Um, and then the last one, approving the burrow to use our football field um to
shoot off their fireworks for the Fourth of July celebration. So that's everything under um facilities and finance with permission. I'm going to jump. You want me to keep doing go to personnel and then I'll go back to Meredith while I have the microphone. Is that okay? >> Is that okay with everybody? Yeah. Okay.
All right. That's fine. >> Get used to listening me speak. Okay. So obviously a lot um and I appreciate everybody's patient as we're as we're building this agenda. So item 14 um item 14.01 is going to be a list of
the subs 1402 travel expense form. Um 1403 is that come on good lord. Yeah, that's come on. Is the elimination of the um attendant secretary
that I spoke about earlier in the evening. There it goes. And then we have >> Can I stop you for a second? When you say eliminating the attendant secretary is is um can you see yourself >> needing like if we recover financially
or have some sort of revenue, do you see yourself bringing that position back into play at some point in time? >> This came about after Yeah, this came about after the last board meeting. Um my secretary is retiring. Um and I sat with my staff and
we had decided that um in the best interest and to put a good foot forward to the community, we would not we would not be refilling um my administrative assistant and she does a lot. So we sat as a team and we um uh divvied up her
job duties and eliminated a position um that other people in the office knew how to do. So now everybody's taking pieces of this job. It's going to be going to be a tough year, but it's not the kind of budget situation where um if somebody's leaving voluntarily, you kind
of have to take that opportunity to go through attrition and try to save money where you can. So, we did make that decision. So, included with the abolishment of that position is I revised um three job descriptions of people in my office where they've taken on additional duties. Um, so included
with the elimination of that position is um we're changing um these three job descriptions to include stuff they didn't do before. Um so that's what that item is. 14.0 4 through six are resignations
regrettably. 4.07 through 09 are revised FMLA paperworks. Um 14.10 10 is um an employee going out on paid medical leave. 141
is approving a substitute replacement um for Collingswood uh middle school. 14.12 is u another um excuse me, another substitute replacement teacher at the middle school. 1413 is um approving a
permanent sub for the high school. 14.14 is um it's a German student it's approving a German student volunteer and observation. Uh 1415 uh it's approving the Mark Newbie enrichment club.
1416 is summer hours for the counseling of the high school. 14.17 is counseling summer hours for our middle school counseling staff. And then although blank, we did leave holding things in here. So items 14.18
through, bear with me, 44 is um going to be lists of staff. So we're still building those lists, excuse me, still building those lists obviously based because of everything was going on with the budget. So between now and next
week, these will be populated with um staff their names. I put them on here just so as a holding pattern. You know, it's it's being worked on. We've been sequestered in the superintendent's office for the last few days finalizing um the list. So, um obviously there will be names on here for next week, but I
didn't want it to to go unnoticed or >> so. >> At least, you know, it's being worked on. >> Are are these um I know we usually have a meeting to say who we're bringing back and voting on that. Is that that's happening on Okay. So, are all of the staff going to get that are going to be affected by this? They're all going to
have their notices on time. We're not going to have tore >> I know last year I think we had or two years ago we had to reschedle the meeting, right? Yeah. >> Yeah. We had a special meeting last year. Yeah. That's why we've um >> Dana and myself and Fred have been sequestered in Fred's office all week to make sure that we meet the deadline for >> So even though the date that we have to
give them is May 15th. We're doing this sooner. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Yes, ma'am. So yes, everybody will >> have what they need, >> but I wanted to at least have these on here so you know that they're being worked on and they will be populated in time for the meeting. Um, I did want to say I do uh Miss
Coleman, I appreciate that you're the uh a rebalancing of work and being part of the solution to create capacity in our budget because I do I think there's been a lot of questions about roles and I really just appreciate that um you made
you I appreciate um your the impact and support of us getting there. So, thank you for that. No. And again, I I asked them and I told them I said if any if any one of you said say no, then the dominoes fall and then we would have to fill a position. And um they understand
they read the papers and they listen to the board meetings. They understand what we're going through. So >> and that is >> Oh, sorry. That was it. Okay. Um so just a clarifying question. So the um the information about the positions and everything um are we going to get that
information prior to next week's meeting so that we have time to >> Yes. staff first. Um this agenda will go live. You you Yeah, you'll have it before the meeting. We just want to make sure we have time to do a final go through with the list um and meet with the staff and provide the letters and do
all the notifications that are required. Speaking of the agenda, um I just want to say that I appreciate you uh listening to all of our concerns and asking us having to having us asked to put the agenda up earlier um so that we had a chance to review it and we
appreciate that you uh you made a very big effort to do that. Thank you. >> That is it for me speaking. I'm going to pop up to Meredith Rodri have a question. >> Yeah, I guess I because your your sections kind of go together in terms of the budget thing. I wonder if it makes sense for us to like stop and as a board
and talk about uh the the budget pieces as a whole now before moving on to the curriculum stuff. So I think one one thing you know understanding that that there's definitely uh still confidentiality at play in terms of you know uh what the
final you know who uh uh may you know what positions are being cut etc stuff like that. Uh I know that back in February we were told it was something like 20 25 positions were were being ripped. Do we have a closer estimate of just a total number of positions being
being rifted at at this point? >> It's 33 positions. It's 25 people. >> And are those balanced already accounted for for resignations or retirements? >> Yes.
what I had included. I forgot under my discussion. You even reminded me today and I forgot again. I apologize. It's one of those weeks. Um, under my discussion somewhere else. >> I I would be remiss and I'm just going to place this here and then we can talk.
um based on everything that's going on with the budgets and um we do have the opportunity I've said it last year, Robert Roger has said it to go out for operational referendum. So, I'm just going to put it on the
table for everybody to talk about, but I would be remiss because I've been very public, you know, I don't have another school that we can close next year, right? Like that's a one that's that's that's a one-time rabbit out of a hat situation. we can't do this again next year. So, we would be remiss if we
didn't consider and fully vet the idea of going for an operational referendum. Um, we can go in September. Um, if it fails in December, we can go or September. We got there's a general election in November. Then you got
December, January, March. So, um I think this group really we should start the discussion and it may even be a good idea to have it like it's an ongoing discussion item on every agenda until everybody feels that they've been heard and we've fully vetted the idea. But we
really need to rightsize this ship. And if the community is no, no, no, no, no. and we've asked them five times and five times it's no, then our our marching orders are clear. Um, but I think we would be remiss to not try to to ask and and do the right thing
for for the kids. So, I'm just going to put this here and I'm going to turn off my microphone and let you guys stop that. >> Do do you mind if I I guess ask a question before we go on to operating referendum question, which is just about the the current budget. I know that um there were some no votes last time. Uh
there seems to be some questions about you know the budget still. I just wanted to make sure us as a board we've had the ch we take this chance right now um you know knowing that next week we have to vote on the budget right and knowing that if we as a board don't pass the
budget that means essentially the state will come in and we'll decide our budget. >> Let let me provide some clarity. the budget the financial allocation for the budget is approved. The board is not voting on the actual financial part of
the budget. The board is voting on the allocation of how the funds are being allocated as it relates to budget but the budget is already approved. So the so that allocation piece right and my point being that that we are still voting next week on that final allocation piece and that's something
that the as a board we need to pass and understand that that's something that we need to pass um or else we'll be advocating our authority to the state. I want to make sure that all of us board members wise you know we have an opportunity right now. Are there board members here who have questions about
the budget, have reasons why they may vote no or believe that we should vote no on this budget? And if so, I think that that that should be brought up now and discussed now in committee a whole so that if there are questions or answers that need to be provided, they can be provided before the official vote
happens next week. So right now, just asking right now, who has questions? What questions? What concerns? What needs to be addressed? Well, I I think that this is an excellent time to have those discussions and I I think we've already had some some good discussions, but we also um do not have all the
information yet. Right. So, um you know, I think we can have some conversations now. Absolutely. But understandably, you have a lot on your plates. You're still working on it and um you know, we don't have the final information about the allocation of positions. Roger. Right. So, I don't think all questions can be answered right now, but I think I agree
that this is a time to have discussions. So the question waiting for is the allocation. So you're you're waiting for these specific people uh who are being rifted. Uh that's the data point that's needed to decide your vote. >> Can I just can I just ask a clarifying question real quick? Then the the 33
people um positions, I'm sorry, 33 position. Thank you for uh clarifying that. Can you give us a number of what the total of that amounts to? Like do you have a number? Like if you add up all those 33 positions, >> $3 million. >> Okay. Thank you. So, I I just want to
make sure I'm really clear because I believe section uh all of 14 is listing all of the individuals who will be offered a contract. So, I'm I'm trying to be really precise in my language here in that we do not manage the operation.
So, if the name is some like I guess I'm trying to understand the agenda today is telling you how many positions are going to have a contract provided for the next school year. So I guess I'm really interested in the specific questions about positions because as a board we
are not to in the position of who is in that position. It is do we agree that these are the positions that right like that's the discussion. So I maybe I want to just make sure that we're reading agenda 14 as what it is which are all of the positions we are
putting a contract forward. So if there are questions then this gives you that information. Um just to make sure I'm really understanding and internalizing this is the list of the who of the positions. Um the who some it doesn't really is not within
>> necessarily tell you where >> I guess I'm just trying to be really transparent that I who is not necessarily driving our decision- making on the budget. So I want to be really I want to make sure I'm deeply appreciating what the question is. If it
is not if this list isn't sufficient, what is the question about the positions so that we can be really clear and intentional in answering it because these are the pos this is it this is the list and and I guess as I looked at this list and so I'll just
offer a comment. It is deeply student facing where it can be. You would see an elimination of a position to redirect funding to um staff pointing and directed at students. So I just want to make sure that we are really intentional. This list is the key the
clarity of the positions we are proceeding with for next year. Um so so let's if there's questions please let's make sure we're talking about the list before us. Uh because the who not that it's it is deeply relevant but it is that is um the meat is all pretty much
here. >> Right. And maybe to to piggy back on what you're saying uh Mr. the divine is uh for the question of like the specific cuts right what you know um what information is needed to say uh for you know you miss makowski to vote yes
or vote no what information in those specific cuts is needed under what circumstances would you vote yes or would you vote no >> I want to I just want to preface this by saying that >> committing myself to a decision right now >> yeah I want to I want to protect I don't want to necessarily ask people if they're going to vote yes or vote no I
hear that I don't think that's what they're doing. >> I think we No, that's actually absolutely what I'm doing. I think we absolutely should understand right now uh where we are. This is something that's done across boards everywhere where we there are straw polls asked about where we are so so that we can we
can uh figure out what questions can be answered so that uh uh we're not left in situations where uh votes are done for uh information not being not being had. So >> I see your concern Roger. I see your
concern. Um, do we have a list of I see a list of the people that we're keep or the positions that we're keeping. Is there a list of positions that we are not keeping? I don't see that on the agenda because yes, if you show me a list of positions
that we're keeping and none of it is student facing, obviously I'm going to vote no. So where if we have a list of the positions that we're eliminating, that would help shape a vote. So, I would like to see that, you know, if we want to hash this out, I'd like to see
what positions that um are losing all across the board from the very top to the very bottom. That's what I would like to see. And I think that should be because obviously we're we see I don't care about the person. I do care about the people, but I don't care about the person. I want to see the positions that we're eliminating. So, if we can be
provided that list, that would be helpful. >> Well, we we we won't be providing that. What we can provide you is the breakdown of uh categories. For example, admin, aids, athletic salary, CST, teachers,
like we can give you the breakdown of the FTEES, but the individual positions. Um that's not something that we normally provide because that happens. It starts at the school level, then it happens at the district level, and it's extremely
intricate, and we we're not going to be able to get all of that to you by the board meeting. >> So, can I just ask a question? >> We can get it to you later in terms of uh impact. Um, but right now our core responsibility is to make sure that all
of the positions that are moving forward for the 2627 school year that we know uh all of those individuals that we are uh primed to make sure that we can um deliver on making sure that all of our staff are approved, get their contracts
issued to them, all of our uh displaced staff can go through the process of selection for new positions and that we can post the uh the positions that are still left. And so there will be additional positions that are posted
that will need to be filled. Um and so there's a lot of movement that needs to happen. And it's not that we don't want to give it, it's just we're not going to be in a position to be able to give that level of clarity by Thursday because we're in the process of trying to get this agenda ready.
>> So just so I'm clear, I'm just going to use it. I'm going to pick the first one on the first page I'm looking at. There are six administrative staff positions that are going to have a person an individual next to it. We don't have the ability to say two there are two fewer than last year's
list that that clarity we cannot offer by the time we have our discussion is what I'm >> I so let me just >> so the c the category we can get we can give you the category >> that's I think what I'm hearing is like hey there's six we had eight last year
>> that I okay >> we we we can we can send you that >> thank you I think >> um so my next question is athletics like we talked about paytoplay what's that what's that going to look like >> that has not been ironed out yet. I do know the value of the middle school
athletics is 150,000. So what we have to do now is obviously um Oakland sends to us for middle school. So we need to look at the number because Oakland pays for that. So I can't say with certainty what it's going to look like. I know it's going to be a typical very close to what
happens now with paying for athletics. This is for the middle school students. It's going to be a higher dollar amount than the average that you pay for like your family. We just haven't gone we haven't had time to do the paperwork for it yet because we have to it's a whole it's going to be a nightmare, but we have to back out the Oakland kids and
then assess the the rest of uh the costs to college. So, I have to figure out what that is. >> Probably middle school is the only affected pay to play. Is that what we're thinking? >> Middle school right now. It looks I'm probably going to be full pay for middle school. >> Full pay for middle school. Okay. Yeah. >> And we just don't have
>> because that was the smallest nugget. >> Middle middle middle school is about 150,000 >> for sports and extracurricular and it's a smaller group >> and there's less there's less kids from other communities. >> So just for sake of >> but we just have to work that out.
So, is that something because I just read today nj.com on Clair, they just pulled all their parents together to do a boosters meeting because they're looking at cutting high school athletics and I think they put their high school athletics at like 176,000 or something like that. I I think that's the number,
but I read it. >> I maybe I'm wrong. It was something maybe that's >> half a million here. So if Montlair's 176, >> maybe that's maybe it was something that's what they needed to get from their boosters and they had other other means. But is that something then for middle school that booster groups could
help to get that price down per kid? >> Thousand%. >> Okay. >> What mechanism would we have to use to do that? Is that just working within the current boosters to try to get that and then have that just apply? >> Fundra and Yeah, exactly. Fundra. Um, I
don't know if they're if it's an official booster club and you need to register as a 50c3 or 501c3. Um, or you just want to work within your current groups to fund raise. But yeah, I'll be more than happy to take a donation to keep the fee lower. >> Did you say that um our high schools,
they have a million forces? >> It's um all in 1.2 million. If I take the middle school out, middle school is 150. So million50 is high school um athletics and co-curricular. But the biggest nugget is athletics because their transportation alone is probably
>> that was gonna be my 300 with taking the transportation aspect out of it for middle school. Does that change anything like how much? I know that's >> No, that's including that's >> Well, no, I know that that's a pretty big piece of it. So, this would be paytoplay and there would be no transportation. >> Yeah. Yeah. Because the middle school
the busing for middle school um athletics is dimminimous compared to the high school. Sorry, just >> would continue with busing. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> So, yeah. Oh, so it's not that much of a cost. When you're looking at the total
cost of running one of those programs, getting a bus for the middle school kids is not as >> it's not as high school. >> So, the busing for the kids to play the sports that are going to pay to play are is still going to be included. So, the parents or the families are not going to have to pay for the transportation. Okay. No.
>> So, the pay to play >> the the families would have to pay for the transportation. included in the pay to play fee. So for soccer you have to pay. >> It's exactly as it is now. So if you have kids that play sports, I know like Maggie like she signs her kids up every year. The process is going to be exactly
well but the process we have now it's already built in. We're just going to for middle school specific. It's going to be a bigger payment because there's going to be less children. It's going to be >> the easy way to think about it is right if saving is $150,000, right? What that means is that the the families of
students who are participating in those programs will pay $150,000 total. >> So is it the callings we are making for the Oakland and >> it'll be Collingswood because Oakland pays a piece. That's why like I need to once the budget is settled I then have to go into the tuition software and and
tweak out the percentage that Oakland pays for middle school athletics so I'm not charging people twice. So, I'm just making sure that I'm truly understanding the impact because as we've talked about enrollment and I look at our enrollment file, we want people to keep on coming and so if we do not end up having enough
to create teams and enough to balance the tuition that is being paid to us, do we have I just am asking the question I think I just it is going to be this 150 will be essentially redistributed across our Collinswood families
who choose to participate and Oakland will participate because they're already paying for their just making sure. I just want to make sure we're all answer. >> So, this may be a tough question. Um, so given so just call Collingswood alone, do you know how many kids are part of
the middle school athletics program currently? I don't have it with me right now, but >> so I'm just the this is going to lead to another question. So I'm just curious if if we say that that number we divide that 150 by the amount of families that's approximately what it's going to
cost per family and >> no I have to back out Oakland. >> Okay. So how does how some sports cost more than others? Sorry. Okay. So if if not enough families are opting for this, that's going to
potentially increase the cost for the families that do know. >> No. So the if if if let's say there are three programs, right? If not enough families sign up for say to run uh a um ultimate frisbee team, that's my my
thing. Uh then it just wouldn't happen. So that cost wouldn't happen. And so instead of 150,000, it'd be like a 100,000. Yeah. just be $100,000, right? And then, you know, I I appreciate the complexity in terms of of actually calculating all this because not only do you have to back out the Oakland students, um but also you probably need
to do it uh by by program for the costs. Uh both students might participate in multiple sports, right? So it's not just like you know even persons plus there needs to be a provision done in place where basically uh uh we need to pull in
enough money for from folks who do not qualify for free reduced price lunch so that they can get uh uh free um enrollment into these programs right so that's how that is done and it's so it's a complex process I'm pretty sure that has to happen um but essentially it is
we're saying that this money has to be covered by by families and we're using sports as our examples tonight, which is accurate, and extracurricular clubs and activities. So, it's all all-encompassing for our middle school programming.
>> Um, when we talk about a potential operating referendum and paying for these things, is that something that we're considering bringing back into the budget so that families don't have to pay for that? >> I I think that's probably up for our discussion, right? And so so I I I think
>> is that on the table? Is that something that we >> I think everything that's been taken away is on the table when we're asking people to pay more. >> Okay, >> that would be my opinion. >> I just want to less Are there any other questions that we can provide clarity around because I do think we should make sure we get the information that will
help inform decisions. >> Right. And I do want to I do want to preface that by I do want to say that um you know I respect the fact that everybody has the right to vote and I don't want to put pressure on people to vote yes or to vote no on anything. I I would I do appreciate the opportunity
that Roger gave us tonight to have these conversations and to have um and to ask our questions. So if there are questions that you want to ask that would help you clarify how you decide to vote next week on the budget if there any further questions about that that would be helpful. And maybe just an encouragement
there. We spent an hour talking about $5,000 to start this board meeting. So, so >> for a good reason, but yes. >> Yeah. But my point my point being that like definitely like now is the time for us to talk through all these very difficult decisions. >> I appreciate that. >> And what I want to throw out there is again like my office isn't ready to um
go through the whole exercise of trying to figure out what to charge, but I'm just going to throw this out there. It won't be like me by myself. It'll probably be like Meredith will be involved, other people in my office. But if a board member wanted to sit in there too, just to make sure that I'm thinking
of everything. Um, because we need a lot of eyes on this, you know, because it's not just a generic athletic fee that everybody pays. It's like we're we're really going to be affecting just a certain group of people. I just want to make sure we get it right. >> I really appreciate that. And if you could send us an email when like you're
you're doing that if anybody wants to join, then that would be, you know, something that that could be possible. Thank you so much. I I think you'd also have to look at the internal timelines for signups like that would have to start happening a lot earlier to make sure that you understand whether we're going to be able to fill a team or not.
Um and then to the process of if a kid hasn't paid, who's putting that like who was then collecting like not to lay that on a coach to have to then say, "Hey, you didn't pay." Um >> excellent point, Matt, because we have that issue with the food service, too. >> Sure. >> Well, and food service we sort of
tackled where now it's in Genesis. So when you go on for your annual, you know, update all your paperwork, it it pops up for food service. Do you want to apply? Yes or no. Um I'm working with um the tech team to do the same thing for activity fees. So I'm not constantly
there is a flag in Genesis. So if somebody if a teacher or a coach wants to look there is a flag that denotes whether a child has paid or not. But getting the flag on there, you know, like it's a whole thing like we have to like I we look at the bank accounts just to see like who's paying what. But it's
just the the mechanism to get the people to fill out the paperwork is what we need the help with. So we're working with tech that it's another one of those popup things when you go in Genesis to say, "Hey, does your child participate or may they will they be participating in sports? Yes or no? Please complete this form." So we're we're we're
capturing people in the beginning of the year versus later. Would would a breakdown be able to would we be able to understand like by sport or by activity like what the cost is particularly if we were going to go out to boosters to say hey if we could raise half of this this would mean x amount of kids can do it
that maybe couldn't afford it like if if we can get to that level of detail as we we go out there and ask again like I think we can be creative to try to solve this problem. Um, and I think speaking of a parent of a kid who's going into eighth grade who has played middle school sports each year, like it's I his
first year wasn't great with it, but this year's been awesome and I would love for him to continue to be able to do that. So, uh, and to be able to think through like within community, how can we can we address this? I think you have a lot we have a pretty rich and deep alumni pool here that also did that that
I think would also be very interested in trying to help make sure that this opportunity is still reality for kids. Um so I I just want us to think collaboratively on on that one. do. Oh, I say and another thing to think about
as we're creating the signin form, you know, in the paying option is to put a donation option, please, because I know people would I mean 10 bucks extra a person. Imagine how that mounts up. So, I would hope that we could consider that, you
know, like pay your kid and then, you know, an option to add extra because people are willing to do it and I think it would make a big difference. So >> we do a volunteer fee with Little League and a lot of people end up just giving the volunteer fee back even though they end up in end up volunteering a lot of their time as well. So it's
>> when we're talking about the amount of money allocated in our budget for um stipens and coaching fees and things like that. So that that is separate. That would not be I mean that that kind of money is not included. And then um in the paytoplay correct that's something that's already in our budget. No, that's
in our It's in our budget, but it's being the dollar amount that's in our budget that that's being assessed to parents. >> Got it. Okay. Gotcha. Thank you. >> Yep. >> So, actually, I was going to ask a question um similar to that. Um Meg, because if when do we need to like when
do we set up the coaches and things like that? Like if for example, we can't do a sport, have we already when do we let the coaches know like are they dependent on that money? Are we letting I would by season I would imagine like if you put it out so basketball right so
when do we put that out like when do we have you know when when >> I beginning of the year is when you really want to get all that information >> I think it hasn't worked in practice that way but I think it's like >> I think it it depends on the sport I think you have some sports that have had coaches that have been in place for
years so it's you basically know who it is but if there's another one I think it's part of having to start the sign up process. A lot of >> thinking if we don't have the money to keep that that sure specific sport going, what happens to that person who's coaching and when did they get the notice by how does that affect them?
>> Yeah. Well, if we start if we started earlier then hopefully that can help with maybe doing some recruitment and getting to try to fill that out. And I think that's if we see the numbers are low then that can be something that I mean just like with courses or other pieces like that.
>> So I I just wanted to Where who owns coordination of these efforts? Where what role in our district would facilitate this? Is this our building leaders? Is this each athletic director? The athletic director. It coordinates
all this is and do we deem that to be a studentf facing position or an administrative position? both because they >> I just want to I'm I'm saying this because I think we hear that we have too
much administrative not enough student but we have these roles to help facilitate the experience and enhancement of education. And so as we're thinking about role, which one which goes people wear several hats who sit in these line items and so that's why I'm asking the question the athletic
director also passed this administrative function and this um so I just wanted to make sure that I was super clear because I think I've heard as we've discussed the budget that question. >> Uh can I just ask Dr.
just left. But this paytoplay would also extend to activities like theater or clubs as well. Correct. For middle school. >> For middle school. Yes. >> Okay. >> So, I think that you know we we used to just so that people can it's
illustrated. We call it paytoplay. All we're really talking about is a revised activity fee. That's that's that's really what it is. Just a revised activity fee. >> Um I'm I'm asking this as as somebody who did do it for a while. Um, do you know a percentage of uh middle school
clubs that maybe have faculty who volunteer their time? Would those clubs be affected? >> So, in other words, if if a small club is run by a staff member who is not getting a stipend, would that be something that would be eliminated or would that continue? And this is not to
suggest that staff members should be volunteering their time because I know that's that's not what I'm asking, >> right? And so I I think the the the initial go-to is not to uh ask for folks to volunteer. I know that some of our Yeah. I want to be very clear, but what I'm asking
>> in a volunteer scenario um if someone already does they would still be moving they would still be able to move forward. So there's no other uh expenses associated with say a small like let's just say the video game club if that if that is stamped by it by somebody this
is purely an example some stamped by somebody who uh is doing it on a volunteer bas basis would that necessarily be something that would be eliminated would there be any other overhead to a small club like that >> shouldn't shouldn't be I I know that some of our volunteer um some of our volunteer clubs in the past were based
on um mutual uh mutual shared like activities. Um they received um donated goods, services, equipment to be able to run the program. Um and so there there would be no obstacle preventing that from still taking place.
>> And again, I just want to make sure I'm not suggesting that staff members start compensating by volunteering for things that used to be paid. That is not what I'm asking. >> In Oakland, we have uh something called OEF, the Oakland Education Foundation.
Um do is there something like that on Okay. Yeah, >> there is one that is in the works that is becoming a nonprofit is getting established. There's a board should be moving by spring.
>> We're we're meet we're meeting with them um next month to um talk about uh goals, objectives, and ways that we can partner to support kids. Um, and one of the things we're really excited about is that one of their goals is also to um to
sponsor um classroom teacher grant programs for like innovative uh projects. Uh, and we we and so when we get more information, we we'll bring back to the board. >> Yeah. I think um I mean if you look at Oakland compared to Collinswood, I mean, we have like five little stores and you
guys have this whole thing. I mean, having having a little little committee like that that could just go around to the businesses and ask for donations and ask for this and I mean I think a lot of money can come from that um it just takes a little footwork. Yeah. And I
mean I think a lot of us would would be willing to volunteer and a lot of other community members would be able to >> volunteer to do those things. So >> and also at the end of the day tax writeoffs to the small businesses at the end of the year, right? Uh, so speaking of revenue, I'm going to bring the conversation back to the big topic that
we just dropped on the table, which is an operating referendum. Okay. So, first an operating referendum. So, first thoughts on that. >> So, I I just had a clarification question. So, um, I thought that I just want to make sure I understand. So, I
thought that two years ago when we talked about something like this, there were all kinds of reasons why we could not do it. Could you please explain what the difference is between then and now? Governor Murphy um last year I forget the name of the thing he did sign something that allows it um I guess
based on the Robinsville and all the hoo-ha um I forget what it's called but there is there is guidance out there now that the um it is allowed um so this past March I think there was four Robinsville Montlair I'm going to
name I think there was four um half passed half failed so they're picking up momentum I think you're going to see a lot this coming fall because a lot more school districts um are struggling. But um yes, since since it got challenged with Robinsville, um they are allowing it. >> You're welcome.
>> So, operational budget um I think that it's something that we obviously need to explore. I think we need to do it in a different way than maybe we've presented in the past. Um and I as a board member, as community member would want to see what are we bringing back? Like I want
to see us ask for enough that we can hopefully bring things back and highlight them to the whole community that if we pass this is what we're bringing back. This is what we're adding on. That is something that we need to present to the community so they can see the importance. We need to create as
much detail and we need to have as many answers for our community before we present this. Maggie, if I can piggy back directly on that and this may be in part because I'm coming directly from the Tatum community meeting right before this and there we talked about the
operational referendum option at at that meeting. Um I'm wondering I don't I tr I have no idea so if this is unclear or doesn't make any sense just tell me that. But um are we able to structure a referendum question in such a way that
allows for it to be flexible with the unpredictable increases in goods and services over time? I guess part of No, it's a flat >> because um I can read you hold on give me a second. I did print out the
Robinsville one that passed. I think it's it's similar to a bond referendum questioning. You got to give the taxpayers a dollar amount and you have to tell them exactly what you're doing with it. But it's not like >> from here and 3% in perpetuity. You have to give them the exact dollar amount. >> The reason I'm asking is because it's a
a valid is like >> h without state level structural ch how do we ever fundamentally write the write the ship in a permanent way without always feeling like we're attempting to play catch-up catchup. And so >> all right. So I've got Robbinsville's question. >> So that was a a clear no. Thank you.
>> Yeah. You're welcome. Um, so let's just say you're hereby resolved. Blah blah blah da. The board of ed is seeking approval from the district's legal voters to raise an additional $2.7 million for 2425 school year as permitted under 18A blah blah da da. And then they list maintain teachers and instructional assistance, maintain
current programming, maintain facilities. So they didn't say bring back, they said maintain and it passed. So maintain current level of courtesy busing. They have courtesy busing there. We do not have that here. Um, and then they did put athletics on theirs. >> Okay. But you just but you have to say so yeah I would
>> not only does the question but how we present it to the community um needs to be crystal clear. We can't say we don't have that we don't know it. We need to just we we need to come up with scenarios if we don't know it if it's something a moving target. But to get a yes you have to give the details. We
have to give scenarios. We have to give possibilities options. Um, and that's honestly what I haven't seen in the past and what I would really think that will resonate with our, you know, our community and how we can get a yes from community members. So,
>> so I I think while it is important and we're going to need to get people excited about it, we also have to be very sober and honest about what happens if we don't do something like this. And I think it is like it's not just maintain it is we are going to continue to lose
and what what will that mean in two years three years like are we I know you said we can't afford to close another school but what what happens when we can't afford to cut anything else >> so let me be really clear um I Maggie's point is is is crystal clear well taken
um Matt's point is also well taken this is not hyperbole when we say this for the last four years and and I need for it to sink in. We have reduced roughly 70 positions in the last four years. We have cut millions of dollars out of the
budget. We have we have done studentbased budgeting. We have robbed Peter Pay Paul. We have gotten our sister districts to spread out um tuition reimbursements over multiple years. We've done every possible
financial option that we can to get us to this point. If we do not crack this challenge in terms of structural deficit, uh we're we're talking about devastating
reductions that changes the face of our entire district. We're not talking about, you know, a position here or position there. We're talking about program closure. I mean, we're we're talking about a domino effect. we don't have an additional three million or$4
million dollars in reductions for the 2728 school year. And so I I think to Maggie's point, um what we talked about as a leadership team was based on our rejection from last year's tax levy
incentive. We included specific things that Robinsville included in their tax levy incentive and we were rejected to the tune of 2.1 million dollars in rejections. We believe that the area that we need to make sure is shored up
is investing in teachers. Investing in teacher salaries, teacher benefits, teacher support. It's really hard to get a no when if 99% of what you're asking for is directly going to teachers and classroom support. That's what I would
recommend that our referendum includes. those some of those other things we can operate a bit more fluidly but I think that with the rising cost of uh insurance for example the cost of full family coverage for a firstear staff
member is $52,000 above and beyond their salary $52,000. And so if we don't have a pool of resources, it's going to significantly limit our ability to actively recruit and actively retain. And so I think that
we're going to have to make sure that our community is crystal clear that if we do not do this, we will be sticking we will be like hurting ourselves like irreparably. Can I just ask one question because I think I want to make sure we're all actually
saying the same thing about what this operating referendum could be. It's about maintenance which is already maintenance of what this current proposed budget is and possibly rebuilding. It's not like we're going to it's either maintaining what we're
looking at in this list and then if something structurally changes we could start to add more. Somehow the state gets common sense, somehow we close our fair share, something we could grow because I I do I don't know that we could offer unless we were saying we're going to go for such a huge number that
we're rebuilding programs re we're we're maintaining is like we have to agree on is this a maintenance or is this a maintenance? >> Let's just ask the question though. >> There's also there's also a formula folks that and so it's not like it's not like we can say hey we want to go out
for 10 million. We there's a there's a there's a formula that's going to be extremely rigid. And so one of the ways that we would like for you to potentially think about this is look at the gap between local fair share aligned with the formula and look at the overage in terms of state aid. That total
between those two numbers is $6 million. Now I'm not saying that that's the number that we go for. I'm just kind of sharing that's the current gap based on the current funding formula that uh would make a huge difference in terms of maintaining staff uh and moving us
forward. >> Okay. So, I just want to say a couple of things. >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> It's okay. No, no, it's it's fine. You you sort of got toward the question I was going to ask. Uh so, okay. We're talking about maintaining versus restoration of programs. Just on the
maintaining level, if we assume that everything happens next year effectively the way that it has this year. So let's say there's the the state does not come through with anything additional. Inflation is roughly the same as it was last year and so forth.
What what is the gap like what is our starting point just to just to stay level with this year? >> Four million. >> There you go. So that's that's what I that I just wanted us to understand. Before we can rebuild anything, we've got to get $4 million out of the
community. >> That's the number I chase every year. >> And this is also just the that that's like a year after year permanent tax increase just for operational budget. And the thing too I think that we I think we should discuss with an operating referendum is also uh facilities referendum because we we have
to invest in our our facilities. I mean I'm just thinking about you know uh Chel I know Miss M. teach. They're, you know, this this year they're I think they're cutting 72 positions is what I heard. Um, but this was after they they passed the largest bond facility referendum in New Jersey history, 300 something
million dollars. And they're still right now much amidst an operating budget um uh deficit. They're still right now talking about the need to renovate elementary schools, right? Like they're actually seems like they're going to do that. And so my point is that I
understand that um it it may be con you know confusing or difficult for us uh or for us to explain to the public but but we need to do the work to to explain that yes even amidst operational budget struggles we need to invest financially in our facilities because not only is
that uh what our students need but it can also help us become more efficient for uh uh uh for our operational budget. Right? the fact that we our our buildings right now we're not in the most efficient setup for example that can help uh if we invest financially in
that structure uh can help us uh that's one of the levers we can pull to help balance out our operating budget and so I I think we should absolutely um be talking about talking about facilities referendum alongside an operating referendum >> if we're talking facilities investment
actually I think that would be a good opportunity to maybe talk about the future of the Garfield building so um I would like to hear more about what the plan is, what the building is worth, what we're thinking of uh selling for, what the you know what the plan is there because if we could get a couple million dollars to invest in facilities and you
know invest in you know capital fund uh that could be that that would alleviate the need to go to a facilities referendum for the community as well. I think I'm sorry. Does that have to be an executive session because the and I asked this with not know just because of
discussing real estate or other pieces? >> It it doesn't h have to be. It can be. >> I mean that'd be fine, but then I'd like to schedule that executive session. >> Sure. And that was just me not just asking before we go too far down if it was something that we would discuss. >> Can I just touch base on that comment that question in one second? I just want
to um say that you just mentioned about changing the face of the district. We're already doing that. we we're already closing down a school. That's already changing the face of the district. So, I'm going to just put that out there, which I think we all know. Um the next step from here, if we decide to go with a an operating referendum,
um what's I presume that the ad hoc facilities committee is going to meet to talk more about the details like what is it that when we bring this up tonight, what's happening? What's the next step in the process? >> The facility referendum or the the >> referendum. Yeah. Um, well, I would
recommend that. I mean, this was a great discussion. I think we should talk about it again next month and again in June. Now, next month, I think we should probably start talking. It sounds like everybody's very interested. Um, we all recognize the need. There's a 90-day um
notification to the county. So, if we wanted to go out in September, you got to count back your 90 days where we would have to approve a question and get it to the county. So for this September, >> I suggest something to just throw it out there. September is rough because that means that as a board we're campaigning
all summer. People are away. I would ask us to think about November because it's a better election. You have more turnout >> and we pay less. >> And we play that's a big consideration. And we pay less and we have the entire beginning of the school year for this
board to campaign for what we need for our school. >> That's right. I can put it on the agenda that way that we can next month figure out when you want to go >> November election. >> However, if if and when it were to pass, what is the timeline on the back end to receive the I just want to make sure
we're thinking about the back. >> All right. So, I got in an argument with the county BA about this and I was correct. I just want it for the record. Um because I said, "Oh, if we do a we do well because you know you you call Trenton and you supposed to get answers back that are accurate and they're not always accurate." I'm just going to say
um property tax bills go out in January. So I called the county and I'm like well if I'm approved in September, we can start getting our money in January. No, it's for next school year. And then they copy the budget guidelines and they send it to me. So I wrote back, thank
you. I can read, but property tax bills go out in January. So, I'm pretty sure if I'm approved in September, we can start getting some of our money in January. So, we can like kind of build a little surplus to go into the
next year. Do you know what I mean? So, we have something. So, in a perfect world, September, November, whatever. Um, if it gets approved, we could possibly start getting some some of that increased tax levby revenue in January
of next year. And then the full amount would be in the the following year budget. But in a perfect world, that's would be when it would happen. >> But November's close, cutting it close if so that it's the possibility of more than one vote potentially. You don't
have it. >> I was only suggesting November basically. I know it's later, right? And we'll won't have to we won't be building like a surplus, but I think we're going to get more people out. So the chances of a well, you know, and us campaigning all of the fall, I think, is really
crit. I mean the summer I don't I just logistically I think it might be worth waiting two more months but >> and again we can >> well my only other question is would okay let's say we do it in if we do it in September if we do it earlier
this might be a dumb question would it be able to be a like would we get the money for the next budget before the next budget like be able to factor it in I guess that's what my question is is ever going to be too late to factor it into like the next year's budget no because it's already coming. So,
>> yeah, if it passes, that's why I think when Robinsville did it, when they when theirs was approved in 2425, they went out in March and got approval and they went and they included it right in their April budget so that everything was set for the next school year. >> So, my feeling is like the earlier you
the earlier you go obviously the better. Um, but >> the November obviously we would be sharing the costs with the county and the state and everybody else who's on the the on the >> I think we need we need to look at the the ones that just went up to see because was it which town was it that
lost by like six votes >> Montlair's failed by six votes and so it is >> I don't know so that's something that you have to consider is it like >> Robinsville failed too and then there was um >> I've heard both sides of with the with the numbers like I've heard that if it
is on its own ballot then it is the only thing that people are coming out for. So you're getting the people that are the most informed on this and that have the most like are are care and care about it. If it is out on the November it is part of a a broader selection. You're getting more people that are coming out
that maybe aren't informed. So, it's it's just something that we have to consider as we weigh when we would want to go like >> what makes what makes the most we haven't passed we haven't passed a referendum >> in like the facilities once in 20 years like we need to make sure that if we're going to put this investment out here to
get it done that we're we're considering all angles. So, that's not to say that November isn't it, but I think there's it's I would want I think we should look closely at what the what the other towns did and what didn't more. I was gonna say a devil's advocate to to Maggie's like I don't know if more people out is
a better idea. >> I mean I know I just >> Well, maybe that's a good time to do it. September is everybody's happy happy school. >> If we learned anything from the last one, I think it is shortening that
window of when we are out there. Um, and I think it is making sure that we are primarily focused right on those last couple weeks of when when we want to get out and get people on there. >> I would like to offer us meeting as a facilities committee and then bringing that conversation back to the board next
month. Well, so my hands up because we started with operating referendum and and the question is are we also saying we're going to do a facilities? I agree that we need to think about our facilities because I am deeply struggling um that we have schools that
are not ADA accessible personally and just as a human. And so it is really disappointing that our schools are not accessible and safe for children who may have issu challenges. And so I'm advocating for it, but are we trying are
we all agreeing that it is both? They are not the same thing. And um operating referendum is really what's the math and do we agree on this is what we want to go for which isn't a we don't have a committee for that. But are we actually all agreeing? We are prepared to stay in front of
>> is there anyone who would be against um >> I don't think we could do I think you create a new ad hoc. I didn't think we could do it. I didn't think we could do both at the same time. >> You have um debt that's expiring in 2030. So, >> yeah. Can Can we do both at the same
time? I think I think we can, can't we? We can do both at the same time. >> But I don't know. I don't think >> that increases the chance that they both fail. >> I'm not suggesting we should, but I think we keep mentioning So, I'm actually deeply asking us to prioritize the people and operating budget, right?
I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna piggyback with what Zakiyia just said because at the end of the day, every community meeting that we have had for the last several months. Um I think that there is widespread acknowledgement that facilities needs there needs to be something for facilities. But in terms
of maintaining the stability of our district, I think that we've got to we've got to make the investment in people first, facilities second. Um at least that's the feedback that we've gotten from parents and from staff. And I would be remiss not to tell you
>> and one more thing and there's there's only a certain threshold of what our community members can sustain and support financially and if I'm going to pick or choose between one or the two. I think our staff need to take precedent.
>> I agree. I thank you for that comment because I was just going to say I know we're sitting here going back and forth with this and I just want to be very mindful that we have a community full of people that are going to have to pay for this and we know that we've we've we've put a lot of burden on them over the last couple of years and we're this is a big ask for them and I know that they've
come to us and said what can we do to help and they want to have this conversation but we are mindful that this is a big impact on the community and as far as the I think the operational has to go first like Fred said you have debt expiring in
2030. So in three years you could do close to a tax neutral swap out one debt for another. There's no in you know we would have to run the math but you've got the 2005 bond referendum is expiring in 2030.
>> Can we also go back to Megan? Why aren't we selling Garfield and taking millions of dollars and putting it into our bill? I mean, like that's like the big like flashing light that I have to ask. >> Yeah, I've been asking this this question for like two months. So, if if we could get a timeline to get some
information about what the plan is for that humongous building, that would be great. >> That is on the table. Um I obviously without going into close session and and disclosing things, but that that is definitely on the table. That's that's the reason why Garfield I mean look at
where it's hanging out. Um, so yeah, it's totally on the table and we would be remiss not to do that and take get as much money for it as we possibly can to increase our capital reserve, increase our maintenance reserve that I've just depleted and whatever's left over have it for the budget thousand%. It's
totally on the table just as far as all the inner workings of everything that's going on to make it happen. You know, obviously cannot be disclosed in public, but totally on the table. >> So when when will when will our executive session be then? because it it needs it needs to happen because um you know >> I understand first um like I said we're
the first step would be getting you guys to approve the closure and we send it to the state as soon as we get that letter back from the state saying yes it's closed because you have to tell them what you're going to do with the building like are you going to mothball it and just keep it forever or are you selling it so we're telling them we're selling it or whatever we're going to do
with it then then we go into close session and we we do what we have to do but the first step is send this to Trenton and get their approval for you to close it >> we could have a close session in May potentially potentially to have >> my mouth is dry. Depending how quickly Trenton gets back to us with that
approval letter to close the building, then it's completely up to you guys. >> So, I want to caution us from from overestimating the value of the property. The building from a commercial perspective is not worth anything. the the land is.
>> And so in order to get an appropriate commercial assessment of the land costs money and so we have not recommended that the board take on cost until the board actually votes to approve its closure. The state confirms its closure.
Then we can actually engage with a um organization that would allow us to have a a data-driven conversation about what is it worth and then and then take us through the actual public bid process for disposal of uh district property
>> and then that would all be once we know that we would go through all that in close session with you guys because it's completely opposite of when we buy things. So yeah, we would have to do that. I think these conversations are really important and especially the Garfield one because this is actually what helps
makes decisions for the oper the budget for next year at least for me like I want to know where we're going. That's like the first time we thought you know yes we can have a closed session like this is what we have to do first and second and third that makes it a little easier to digest to close a building that we all love and you know respect
and the people in it when we know what our next steps are and it's not just in the future. So thanks thank you providing the details and the ongoing discussion. >> Yeah. So, um this helps with our meeting
next week too. >> Um I absolutely agree with that the idea that you know we we should be utilizing these resources to to uh help us renovate our other facilities, right? That can help lower the cost for the town. You know, one thing I I want to
make sure that, you know, I I'm a pretty big uh proponent of investing in our schools and I I do think, you know, of course, the operating referendum where we're at right now, clearly that needs to take press and we also really really need to grapple with the facilities piece
because the idea that like we I don't think we can just um keep on increasing the operating referend you know operating budget forever. and not change the structure of our schools because just it's just not financially feasible. I mean, I'm
thinking about West Milford is closing their second elementary school in three years. Middletown uh this year is closing two elementary schools while laying off 40 employees while raising taxes, right? Like these things are actually happening throughout the the
state. And the the the idea that uh we can just, you know, keep our structure as is and desperately to hold on to what we have. I I don't think that that that is going to work well for for us. And we can do a lot better and we should do a
lot better for our our schools, for our students, for for our staff by figuring out how can we become uh more efficient, deliver better education, and that's going to require investment in facilities, right? If we talk about administrative costs, well, if we want
to cut more administrative costs, we have to have fewer buildings. That that's one piece there, right? And you know the thing is that we are a small town, right? Uh and uh I understand what that what that means is that everyone here feels the the price of taxes a lot,
right? Um but we can't all want to live in a small town and enjoy that it's a small town and not understand that the the small town then has to take on that cost. And and my point there is that I understand that that affordability is something that we all have to grapple
with as as residents here and and as policy makers, right? And uh here in the town, but I I really want to stress that uh our plan for affordability in Kineswood should not be to rob our students of their education, right? So
affordability and how we how we do that in Kingswood uh is a a burrowwide piece. And to say that our plan to keep Congable is to not update our buildings is is literally
robbing. >> Anybody that though I think we're saying let's do our first step. Let's invest in the people which are directly affecting our children and then let's work on selling that giant, you know, piece of land and putting it towards something while also refocusing on, you know,
regionalization or whatever that next step is. But we have to take that first step before we get to the ne you know what >> Sure. And and and I I absolutely agree with you there and my point is that that we we my point is that I think that next step is has to come sooner than I think
a lot of us uh uh might want and might it might be a little bit uncomfortable because of that. And look here's also other thing there are multiple ways to do facilities updates in the town. For example, the state, I think passed, was it last year, uh a a method where boards
of education can work with the county redevelopment office um to fund without a vote uh a facilities referendum. Now, ideally there the the the bureau backs uh that
plan, right? But the law basically says that we could work with the county redevelopment office to do a referendum and it doesn't require a public vote and other districts have been doing this, right? And so I understand there are political realities in in terms of uh taxes are
are never popular, but I think our job up here isn't to be popular. It's to do what's best for our students. And so so that that's my my push there. So, I just want to be really intentional and I'm gonna I I totally hear you and would offer I what we're
resoundingly probably hearing and sharing with folks. We're closing one school. It's well, okay, how is it going to help us benefit and and and address this immediate issue? And I do agree we need to start thinking longer term because that is also the ask. Stop call stop saying the sky is falling every
year. Figure out a plan. And so it is an either or it's sequencing and we as a board need to be really intentional that it may be September's for this and this is the other. But we need to start to be really intentional around how we're chipping away at this because the underinvestment in our facilities is not
serving us at all. Um but that's we have to prioritize somewhere. So I I think we need to keep talking about how are we going to start to invest in in the facilities and spaces our children are in as well as the people. Um, and so I I
think it's both and it's just really how do we start to message it and make it work with some ease because I agree with you that there that we need to balance it and and the the tax base is going to feel it because that is just part of how this is working no matter, you know,
>> and both are needed. I think um, you know, tonight our conversation is focused on the operational piece because we're talking about staffing and we're talking about $3 million in cuts, right? So, while I hear you and you made a lot of excellent points, I think that right now what the community is asking for is that we're focusing on prioritizing, you
know, who's in the classroom with their children. And I also think that at the same time, like Saki said, like Maggie said, like you said, we also need to be long-term planning and thinking about other things. But I think right now, this is the focus of the conversation because this is what we're talking about, right? We're not we're talking about closing buildings and we're
talking about eliminating positions in the classroom, right? So So put that out there. >> I agree. I hear you. >> I think it's I think it it's good for us to have both in because we don't want to play out to we don't want to be we got to be honest with a community that Yeah.
like it's not going to be the end of of where the asks are in terms of how if we want to get to the district that we think our kids deserve versus the reality that's going to happen if we don't do anything. Um, and I think we need to be honest about what both of those look like from an operational but
then also from a facility standpoint. Um and I think when we go into conversations about uh regionalization, if we are going in there from a point of strength where we have facilities that have been upgraded and have been updated and can accommodate multi-
like learners of different needs that are ADA accessible are that people can can use have have had updates recently that makes us a more attractive partner than if we were coming in with buildings that haven't been touched in decades.
Um because I I see a reality where we go in there with that front and we have to close more schools because they're like, "Well, why would we send our kids to that building when they could come to ours which has been updated much more recently, is more accommodating, has
more space, is ADA accessible, etc." Like that is a part of those conversations that we really need to be thinking as a board. What are we doing to make sure that we can keep our kids and colleagues with Can I ask a question about regionalization because um
I guess I'm missing where do we see that Collingswood's going to be able to bring in other towns if we can barely fit in ourselves and I'm not saying that as like a push back. I'm just like realistically like we do keep saying this we want to be you know the school that people or the town people but maybe and maybe I'm missing
something because I don't really I don't really understand the whole process or how it will look. >> It's not just bringing people It would be like we like for example if we were to reg like fully regionalize with Woodland and Oakland it would probably
mean to be honest like a closure of Collingswood school and a redistribution of our students to Oakland and Woodland like it wouldn't just be bringing them here the high school or fits them here right like so it's not just >> them. Yeah. But and that's why I'm like
if we're focusing so much on and not not that I don't think that we need a fac referendum. But I mean, that's probably our most likely situation that I mean, I guess that's just what I'm missing. It's like we can't fit any more kids here.
So, how are we going to be uh you know, >> so the the I'm sorry, Matt, the value in the regionalization would be for districts that don't have a K12 continuum. And so, we would not be seeking to actively recruit elementary
students. We have bandwidth and capacity to support middle and high school students as well as adult learners in our 18 to 21 program. And so if you look at middle, high, and adult, there are um school districts that are uh K8 that
could benefit from our high school. There are schools that are elementary only that could benefit from middle school and high school. There are school districts that are so small that they would benefit from our 18 to 21. And so if we're looking from a regional perspective, we'd be casting a much
wider net. Um, and there are several districts that we are seeking to engage in that discussion. um and have also engaged us >> and that makes more sense because we have more room here and that's where we keep going back to our elementary
buildings and that's where I I don't want to see us invest a ton of money and then regionalize and then no we're not utilizing buildings and not because they're up not upgraded but because we can't fit anybody. So, that's just a thought to throw out there because I couldn't really wrap my head around. We can't fit any more elementary kids, so
why would we consider regionalizing? But >> and and to piggyback on the questions about um regionalization, um so school districts would have to agree to regionalize with us. So, hence is why we're we're going >> current state. And so this is I mean
this may be provocative or or maybe even um projecting out what school district leaders and uh regional leaders what we believe is that uh from a state perspective they are allowing a certain
degree of bloodletting to take place district statewide in order to compel the reg force regionalization. And so when we met uh last month with leaders across the region looking at funding
um there are bills on the floor that are in active discussion on on the assembly floor and right now the topic is are they going to incentivize or mandate and so if they mandate then no there wouldn't there wouldn't necessarily be a vote that's required. If they
incentivize it depends on the incentive. >> And and one more thing and then I'll I will shut up about this. Um, so that would regionalizing through incentive would require votes from all of those all of the populations in each of those districts. Correct. So that so even if we work something out,
then Oakland residents, Woodland residents, for example, would have to vote and agree. Got it. Thank you. >> Unless they change the law, >> but right now, yeah, it requires vote. >> And that's a public I'm sorry, is a public vote or a board vote? Public board and public.
>> Um, and then so then also a couple things with realization is understand that once we regional regionalize right like let's say we have 11 board members that means that clients would would only get a portion of the board member seats to the population. The other thing too about regalization is is absolutely this
is something that we need to be talking about because it's a serious solution to well we're not it's not a full solution but it's a partial solution to some of our financial issues. Why for example operating referendum is needed is because this solution is incumbent for like five 10 years like if
you think about how long it's going to take unless the the uh budget situation across the state gets so strong that the state forces our hand like this will take five 10 years right. Um
can we reel back to uh budget um and the uh sorry the the question about um that Roger had about like how everyone's voting did not go over very well um with everyone but can we hear what the fallout would be if uh if there's a no
vote on the budget? >> You mean like we don't have enough to pass? >> I keep calling you back until May 7th until we have a final budget and then if we don't I call the county.
>> Yeah. What's that look like? like when it's >> basically what the state approved it's it's what's probably they're just it's just going to happen. They're just going to give you the authority to sign the tax certification. >> So additional questions um so you said
that you will be giving us a list of um categories. Got it. Okay. And numbers correct. Thank you. um the consolidation plan for the secondary campus. Um how can that go through if we are still deciding or maybe the decisions have
been made but you know can you give us >> the reduction the reductions have already happened >> correct? So the the the the the finances of the budget is approved. >> And so the the reductions of of positions has already happened. And so I think that you know all the
consolidation is is a u removing some of the redundancy and becoming more more efficient in order to maintain the integrity of programs and services. And so subtle tweak here, subtle tweak there. It's not it wasn't a major structural change. we just didn't want
to make uh changes without telling people. And so, I mean, if we had just made the reductions through the normal budgetary process, it might have been easier, but we wanted to get real feedback from from the community and we wanted to to share with people why we
were making these decisions. Um, and in ourstead to be transparent, um, it it muddied the waters just a bit. And so at the end of the day, um, we didn't, we could not have anticipated the magnitude of the budget gap. And so we were trying
to be proactive in our planning in order to reduce operational expenditures that did not negatively affect students. And so we forecast last year in April that consolidation of the middle and and and the high school to a single campus and
removing some of the operational costs would be um discussed. We announced in September that we would be pursuing that proactively in preparation for what we thought was going to be a challenging budget. Um and so I mean to give you like a concrete
example um the middle and the high school counseling department um they have two separate offices. They've got you know two secretaries. We don't need two secretaries for five counselors. Um and so that would be like
an example of uh moving a position to another area where it's needed. If you've got two folks that teach the exact same thing and we don't have the students to support both, one of those positions would be reduced and so on and so on.
>> There there were many meetings with parents and community members about the the the plan. Um is that plan going to be like communicated to the the community and the the parents? >> Yes. Um once the budget is um uh is
completed and we move into implementation, the bulk of May and June will be communicating um budget impact and forecasting for September for the community. So if I guess back to the budget case,
thanks for pulling us back around is you know I was thinking about what what our board responsibility is right on the budget and um I think we we all know that that we have an administration to uh implement the budget and to um
basically do the best possible job that that y'all can uh with the the resources we have in order to provide the best education we can. At the board level, you know, we can help priorities um and and past suggestions and and so forth.
And and I think what we've seen from the last hour or so discussion about the referendum is that this is a major revenue problem that we're facing, right? We just do not have we cannot right now bring in enough money to fund
um uh the schools as they are. Um, but I guess I want to put forth a couple questions to the to the board just to make sure that we're we're grappling with different maybe priorities to see if if if these are things that we want to consider or not. I know it might be a
little, you know, in April, but um I was looking at at the choices that we have that are in this budget in terms of uh what cuts there are, etc. And I know that there's a lot of concern about positions being eliminated. Um,
one potential rep prioritization would be uh we are we we have not right now said that we would uh make all athletics and extracurriculars pay to play. Now I'm not saying that we should but I want to put forth to the board. Is that
something we're willing to discuss? That would I think you said that it was 1.2 million is the whole thing. So then uh without but we're already taking away 150,000 for middle school. But if we took away high school, that would save about $1 million, right? So that's a
reparization us as a board, we could vote for and that would save jobs, but it would require that all extracurriculars become paytoplay across all grades. Um, so that's something I
want to put forth to say that's a reprioritization that that we could I think we should discuss here. Is that something that this board uh is willing to engage with if we're concerned about losing the number of positions we are or
or or uh would we like to as a board continue with uh only turning middle school extracurricular into pay to play? >> That's a fair question. Um not not one that I've considered. Uh I think because
we have given a lot of that responsibility to our administrative team to tell us what it is that they need from us in order to make things happen. So if that is even an option on the table to discuss then we can have that discussion but I'm not sure that it is. >> I would strongly caution against that.
Um and there's a couple of reasons why. For one um extracurriculars and activities are the reasons why our kids come to school. Second we have uh and shared service agreements with Oakland and Woodland. And by not
delivering on the full scope and services, there would be uh refunds that are needed. And so it would create a bigger hole. And then the final piece is that I would anticipate that we would see a a swath of uh kids transferring
and leaving our district, which creates an even bigger hole in terms of uh enrollment. And so I think that it would it would be a domino effect of of negative impact. Um and so I that's not something I would recommend that the
board consider. Um son of a PE football, basketball track coach, basketball player, soccer player. Um I wouldn't I wouldn't recommend that. was >> it's within your right to discuss and
decide as a board if that's what you want us to do. >> Wasn't there was guidance or something from the county at some point about they wouldn't approve that? >> I thought they took it out of the last time we asked for money. They didn't include sports at all.
>> I'll I'll jump in here because where if you want >> here's where the state says one thing, the county says another and I can't get a straight answer. Okay, you can quote me. um county business administrator superintendent said they consider extracurricular and athletics part of a
thorough and efficient and well-rounded education. So then when we did our tax levy incentivate application I included it in our application and Trenton said no. So Trenton doesn't consider it but the county does.
So >> and and we but I mean like my point is if Trenton if if Trenton considered it part of a well-rounded education they should be funded
exclamation point. They do not. That's why a lot of districts that have high schools are struggling because of the just the the the sheer cost of providing these things. But I guess I'm I I mean I I have been as we were talking about the middle school paytoplay thinking well
why can't high school have an increase in the student cost or the amount is slightly reduce how much we're expect to to have some but I don't know if that that's really enough to substantively move the dial you know I just don't know
if it's enough but I do agree that with I think Roger general premise there are tradeoffs, right? You can't you you can't have a lot of sports and have all the people, right? Like that just isn't going to balance. And so I do think it
is I guess I'll reframe it and say are is there a way to shift some of the cost share as we've seen insurance companies do as somebody who battles them every day um to help us preserve positions in this district? Right? It's not move
everything, but is there a way to shift a bit more? Because I do think that that's worth thinking about. Um, and also full pay to play even more, we just got to find the perfect sweet spot so people again won't leave because they feel like there's no option. So, I get it, but I think it's something to think
about or try to, but it's too much. >> Can I ask an obvious question? If we did pay to play for um athletics at the high school, would we not close Garfield? Would that be money to save so that we wouldn't have to close an elementary school? >> The I'm I'm just gonna I'm going to
muddy it even more for everybody. And the reason why the middle schools just easier pickings from my perspective. Um the high school, we have two district two districts that sent to us for on tuition purposes. um included in that
tuition calculation are sports and extracurriculars. So you got to piece that out. Then the um large percentage of free and reduced that are at our high school that are not in our other buildings. So now you're asking
families. I'm just going to throw a number out. I don't even think it's right, but it it's a very po I think I did this calculation last year and I think correct me if I'm wrong, Roger. It could have been it could be upwards of $1,000 a family. Is that am I right?
Was that the number I was talking about at one point? >> Yeah. So, it was just obnoxious. So, that's kind of why I just was like, not that we shouldn't have the discussion, but nobody's going to pay that. So, um, then we're going to be in the position of do we still run the run the programs
and me not get the money and then we're upside down because it's everybody says yes, I'll pay and then kind of like this is why we have lunch why we have people charging lunches and not paying me. It would be the same thing all over again but on a grander scale. >> I think we don't have a number. It's
hard to to make that decision. We would we would recommend that in the board's deliberation about operational referendum um that be included in the discussions >> um to be able to secure
funding for a um foundational amount of athletics and extracurriculars all student facing. Um as part of the discussion um I will I also want to kind of share is that we toiled and we wrestled with this as a as an issue. We
opted um in a challenging budget where there is um the feeling of loss. Uh we wanted to minimize what kids would be experiencing. Um and I'm going to say again, high school sports
makes up a large percentage of the high school experience, whether you are an athlete or whether you are a spectator. Um, it brings communities together and we needed to make sure that we could maintain that for our community to the degree possible. >> I mean, that that we're all talking
about there, not just sports, right, but also um uh theater, band, uh, choir, all that all that stuff, too. Yeah. And and I think uh, Zak, you said it exactly right. Um, I appreciate the discussion, not necessarily because I believe that
we should be uh uh making all those things because I don't I do believe that's part of a a thorough and efficient education despite what the state said to us last year. Um, but this is the magnitude of decisions we're talking about of tradeoffs we're
talking about. And I think we we as a board uh when we're talking to the committee members, I think that's something that that I've realized that not everyone really understands that we're not talking like yes, of course the the $20,000 local fundraiser is going to be really great. It's going to be really helpful for the middle school
sports, all that stuff, right? But we're not talking like we're talking about this magnitude of like millions of dollars of making all of our after school programs completely pay to play. That's the type of trade-offs that we have to talk about and think about and it's it's a really difficult position.
Um, and I appreciate everyone here grappling with with with that discussion. >> I think it would be helpful um and I know it's not for this year, but to see options. I mean, we're never presented with options. It's kind of like this is where we are. This is what we have to
do. Um, and I mean, I looked at a couple different budget presentations from other schools and there were options and that maybe they weren't in the biggest like hole that we are, but when you can see clearly like what an opt what it would look like,
you know, as different scenarios, um, I I think that would be helpful or it would have been helpful. um or just saying like would it ever have been an option to keep you know to for pay to play for high school and not >> I don't know like even if it's not
something anybody agreed with the options are lacking and >> there's got to be something there has to be some type of option whether it saves us a little or not at all or they both are equal the same but look different for the community. Um, but this is kind of the second year that we're in a
really tough spot and it we're being submitted a presentation. It's like this is it. This is all that you have. Your only option. Um, and it just doesn't sit great with me because I don't, you know, we don't see I'm not asking for the operational piece of it, but we're not
seeing any option as crazy and ridiculous as it might have been or as little as it might have saved us. Um, and I I think that would have been >> so your your point is is well taken, but I think I I think that we also need to
have some reality checks as as a community, not necessarily as a board, but as a community in order for you to have options. You have to have a savings account. We do not have that. When we talk about um when we presented that we spent 99.33%
of our budget, that's because we were budgeted so lean that we had little to no margin. We rolled over $158,000 for this upcoming school year. Um in order for us to be healthy, in order
for us to be able to maintain a degree of flexibility, um we need to have resources. And I think that the reason why options were were not uh presented is because the overwhelming majority of our budget are
people and we also have fixed costs because we have fixed operational expenses that just can't go away. When you've got multiple buildings, the lights have to be on the water, all of those other core things. In terms of staffing, staff have to be paid. Uh
staff increases, which are earned increases, are automatically included within that. And that's just funding that just no longer exists when we start rolling these things over. Health insurance, the increase of health insurance. And and and I I need for the
public to understand the single one of the the increases just in health insurance, nothing new, was $1.25 million more. That's margin that we don't have. And so when we're talking about, you know, other districts with flexibility, yes, some other districts,
they have done referendums. All of our neighboring districts have done multiple referendums in the last 30 years. We've done one in the last 30 years. Other districts, their local fair share, they're at uh uh close to full funding. At a bare minimum, they're at 52% which
is the state average. We're at 47. When we talk about, you know, the efficiency or the operations, other districts have banked cap that they can leverage. And so I think that we have exhausted all of those core things over the last five years which leaves us with little little
options to be able to consider. And so when we were looking at how to balance the budget, you know, this is a period of vulnerability, my team, they didn't know how we were going to keep the lights on. And so it took us multiple
sessions and me sending people home to cry, to pray, and to sleep so that we could figure this thing out line by line. We went through 1,500 line items to be able to save dollars to to preserve and keep as many jobs as
possible to fulfill our academic program, meet all of our academic and required services to students. And then any level of flexibility that we had, we had conversations at the school levels.
We've had conversations at the board level. As you heard tonight, we made subtle tweaks based on feedback that we received from the board. During our retreat, we talked about athletics. And one of the things and the feedback that came from multiple board members was for us to be able to maintain the integrity
of our sports and our extracurricular or the fear from board members was that we were going to see a mass exodus from our district. And so we figured out a way to be able to to maintain that. And so when we talk about options, yes, there were options, but the options were done in
tandem with ongoing feedback, but are we going to be able to present option A, B, and C? No, we don't have the funding flexibility to be able to do that. >> So, let me just jump in there, Maggie, because I I know I've seen actually other districts give options, right? And those options, the ones, for example, Hen Township, they did that, but the
options were uh so uh what if we didn't increase our taxes all the way? What if we increased it halfway? And what if we increased the taxes all the way, right? So, so that would be for example if if uh uh Beth Hannah presented the option of us not raising taxes at all this
year, us raising 2% tax, us raising 4% tax, or us raising the full 6% tax. That's the options that I saw other districts present. And for us, I don't it seems to me here that none of us are proposing that we don't raise the full amount of tax that we're statutoily
allowed to raise this year. Are we? Right. So that's really the only options that I've seen other districts really provide is how much tax. >> I think if I might chime in I appreciate your question and I think options are fant would be a fantastic place to be options implies that there are good
options. we are not and I think the root word is something about optimal like there's some piece of optimism included in that exercise of which do the what what do we want to pick from and so I think for for us much of the last three
months now has been about choosing from a list of really bad things to happen to our district and so I appreciate your question fully but um there were there are not great options to discuss or debate So, I just want to name that like
I think that that I fully appreciate what you're asking for, but um we don't have other things to deploy here, but I hear your question fully. >> Maybe um presenting even the terrible options would have at least given us
like the full picture. I don't I'm I'm just giving like feedback on you know, Roger asked what would we want to see to vote yes or no on a budget. These are the things that I'm throwing out there. >> Can I just ask a clarifying question? Would it like I remember you asked this
at the last um at the meeting in March. Would you have had an easier time or like would would what if like specific numbers were provided? I remember you asked for that. Like >> even though that's not an option like
having that is that kind of like for lack of better the hangup. Not everything. What we're cutting and how much and from what buckets and what positions or what areas. You need to see the full picture
if we're voting on people's livelihoods on the money that we are like the steward for the community for their money. like >> would >> so I I was you know I guess another follow-up question for that would be you know would you want to see based on
those numbers then would your next question be like asking for options with those specific numbers like that's I think that's what I'm I feel like I'm hearing like I feel like you want concrete specific numbers not necessarily like there aren't really options to give because
they're all bad but like are you just looking or something. You're looking for more concrete, right? >> I'm looking for more details to help me wrap my head around budget and questions. So, you know, we were presented the budget last week and it was or last month and it was what $3.3
million and that was the only number. >> I mean, yeah, I mean, I think more details to not only explain for us to vote, but also to the community. I mean, people are going to be really upset. And when we are able to give as much detail as we can, it has a potential to help
engage the conversation, be a little more positive or as positive as we can be about it and explain that we don't have a choice, but >> Maggie, if I not that I'm trying to steer us towards section 13 curriculum, but if I but I can give you
>> So, can I But here No, but here I think this No, but to your point to here's an example. >> The there is uh for your approval next week a new elementary literacy curriculum. Um I
initially budgeted $200,000 for a full K5 implementation. That number was then shaved to 120. That number was then shaved to 80. As of today, we're continuing to go back and forth and take it even lower because we
I are fully aware that any of those dollars could be reallocated for a staffing position. And at the same time, I know me and we all want to put the best possible reading programs in front of our kids. So that would be I know it's only one example but I'm just
trying to share with you an example of those those are the those are the options on so you all could vote no. I hope you do not but you could vote no on item 13.06 and $80,000 would then be back in play in the
operational budget. So those are the deliberations that we make right now >> and and I guess I I would just offer to some extent we I I appreciate that example and also would say you let me just say I think it's very clear that
the resounding expectation is you're only going to put up something that is accounting for the lowest we can go because we haven't had an appetite for the highest cost option the middle cost option we expect bare bones minimum. I I
I would offer I think there's also a trying to balance what we're demanding versus getting a lot of options. And I appreciate I I do think a bit more detail around some of this will help us get there faster, but I'm not sure. And I would say today I was intrigued to
hear like, okay, so if the options are well this school versus this school, this is the options that we could have that discussion. But I also think we would then need to know, well, this is the trade-offs of if we pick this one versus this one, I guess could have been our budget discussion. Um, and is is
that what we're asking for? I I I think that's too in the operational detail for the seat I am sitting in. So I am um the expectation is we trust that as close to meeting the expectations of this meeting
the expectations of this community which are not necessarily the level of budget we have um that we are giving some grace around having every option because not to be rude township is sitting in a new media center. We are not
right like we are just not the same. So when we're looking at district presentations let's go sit in the room they're sitting in. They look like none of the ones we have to offer. And I think that's something we should always really make sure that those rooms look like the ones we have. Those stairs look like the ones we have because we're not
apples to apples when we're comparing ourselves to other districts and what they're presenting because the rooms they have are fundamentally invested in in a different way than we're sitting in today. I would go back to tradeoffs though. I just have to ask I hear the threat of transportation every time we
talk about students facing programs and would like to ask if we um I think at one point there was a whole like let's deal with burrow let's try to do shared services but I am actually going to go to cost share of transportation and how much can it be reduced from the
district's budget to if we how much do we have to do to maintain the programming we have in terms of the cost of transportation like if we put a cap like we can invest this much and everything else has to be kind of supported by but I don't know if that's
even possible and that's why I'm thinking like types of trade-offs I think >> it's not and so a lot of the things I think that you know most of what we do um on this board and at the district level is in statute and so our
transportation costs are uh connected to IEPs and so I think and and so we can't like we and say, "Oh, we're going to cap transportation." And then a child moves in and then we have to transport that kid. The law says that we have to transport that kid. And so I I think
that there are out of district tuition, homeless, like all of those pieces add up and those are all in statute. And so I think that we can we can debate the tens and the thousands, but we're
talking about a systemic problem that is millions of dollars. And so yes, I'm not minimizing the tens of thousands of dollars, but that's not that's not going to fix our problem. >> So So speaking of of the millions, so I just want to make sure that we're going again because I know that the the budget
is really difficult and the cuts that we're discussing here are are are terrible, right? We we tried our best last year to avoid these. And so, I want to make sure we're talking through all all the different options. Um, this is why I spent some time thinking through them. Last year, we passed a resolution asking the burrow to step in
to use their tax cap flexibility to increase revenue for the district. My estimation given what the bureau has uh the commissioners have have passed preliminarily is they probably have something like two to two and a half million dollars worth of tax cap
flexibility left still. Um is this board willing to ask if the commissioners will raise uh uh taxes use their tax app flexibility to supplement our budget this year? in well and then in addition to right
because because that would only right because because as as I think we said earlier it would take four million to even like hold steady next year right but uh the following year so you know the bureau has tax cap flexibility they could raise their taxes uh and give
us uh additional funding this year for this budget that's actually what we asked last year before the tax living in a came through >> do we have So, so my my question is uh I know that we're all concerned about um uh the number of staff that we're we're
losing and the services that we're losing for our kids. Is this something that we're willing to ask the burrow and and I know Kelly, you've you've met with the bureau and and and commissioners and is this something that you're willing to go talk to the commissioners and ask?
>> Sorry, we have to vote on this budget in a week and we're talking about like is is this something that's even feasible? And I There have been meetings. I mean, there has been like a collaboration. There have been meetings between >> members of our district and the commissioners. I mean, what what are
what's the tone of those meetings? Like, you know, we need to be informed about what these talks are sounding like. If this is something >> I'm going to give Kelly a moment to think about it. Sorry, but I I do want to just push us a little bit in the same direction. Last year, we forced difficult conversations to the wire
after actually we had to keep going. And I would say that we would be a little remiss to not expect more and start pushing on that. I think we as a board need to have a very clear position because right now I think we're trying to be delicate about well they don't
have money either. Well then we cannot keep getting upset about the number of positions on these list if we are unwilling to go ask for what is rightfully part of making sure this district is whole. I'm not so sure that we'll have it done. But I will be honest, we all need to have a very clear
posture that we are willing to hold our burrow just as accountable as we are holding ourselves to ensuring that we have the staff and spaces that will support our community. And so I don't know that we should sherk away from it. Timing maybe not in a week, but we need
to continue the conversation and not So, what I was referencing is that they're not they're not sitting on millions of dollars to be able to help us solve this problem and that the only way that we would be able to address this is by working in partnership. Um I
know that the bureau is increasing taxes because of their uh shortfalls. And so I I think that um what I am proposing is that we need to have more uh definitive
um more committal conversations about how we move in the same direction with our bureau. And so I I I think that uh I know that they've had their first meeting. Um, I think from a timing perspective, I absolutely think that we need to start h we need to continue
having discussions. I don't know that if it saves what happens on April 29th. >> Are you suggesting that the bureau does have this money that they're sitting on that we should go after >> the the I'm not suggesting that they have We're not talking about surplus.
We're talking about tax tax capility. >> It would be so it's exactly what we what we ask. They are raising taxes >> in general, but are you suggesting that we ask them to raise taxes more? >> So, what I'm what I'm saying is what we did last year, right? Uh when we were faced with this with a huge budget
deficit with the same amounts of cuts last year, what we did on what was it February 10th before we had tax incentiv cap flexibility. So, what that means is they can raise, you know, last year was they could raise something like three and a half$4 million worth of taxes and
they were only raising it by like $300,000. So, they could actually raise millions of dollars more in taxes and they can statutoily are allowed to give us that money. I mean, we we passed we discussed this. We passed a resolution as a board on this, right? What I'm
proposing uh proposing or or asking if we if we want to propose is whether or not uh uh we as a board want to ask again the bureau to use their tax gap flexibility
uh um to raise additional revenue for the district. They're raising their taxes, I think, this year, something like 1 point something million, but I think there's still they they haven't published um uh the the budget documents, but from my guesstimate, there's probably still anywhere from like one and a half to$2 and a half
million dollars worth of tax cap there still um that they could probably raise taxes by and give that money to uh the district to use. So, so that's another option, right? I'm trying to provide options here, right? because for us as a
board to grapple with um because these are the types of things that that that we could do to help with the situation. This this might go over like a lead balloon because I'm not a resident here. Um but I say this is someone coming from
a district who actually does more than fully fund it school per the per the calculation. No worries. >> I was doing Yeah, we I've Yeah, we've all had to stand up at some point. Um, I hear what you're saying about about
going to them and asking, "Can you increase taxes more?" My view on this, and it's the question that I I don't hear asked often and have never heard anything even approaching an answer for, is what can the bureau do
differently to go from being 47% funded to 52% funded? What what are what is the community getting for that money that isn't coming to the school and is it worth it to the community or should they at le I mean
we're the we're the this district is the 10th lowest funded in Camden County. How do we even move that needle with the burrow and get them to appropriate more money from the existing budget for the
schools before we start putting more tax burden on the community members here? I think that I that is the question I've I've I again not a resident don't get don't get a vote here but that is the question I would be asking and I think
our we are hearing people ask it we have been asking and I think we have to decide how do we not force the conversation but we can do a resolution and they can say well instead we can reallocate but that just we can't get
our that energy yet to say we are tired of being under let's give you 1% 2% 3% like doing a shift over time I think we have to decide is it a resolution that helps us codify we are asking you to examine the share and this these are the
levers we're recommending for lack of a better word to use I I do think a more specific and deliberate posture and approach with the bureau is necessary Just throwing this out there for transparency sake. Is it an option for us to have a public discussion with the
bureau and engage I what we did after that whole thing had already started. But is it an option to bring that back to the table and have a public discussion so that all board members can be part of the conversation? I mean, I would I would offer that that
you are the board president and one of the things that you can do as a board president is call board meetings and so you could call board meeting uh and and do such a such a thing. >> Okay. >> Um uh I you know there are always trade-offs
and I think that's that's the that's the piece that we we have to agree upon and and not agree upon just we have to as a town understand and I think we all do, right? Um and at a at a certain point, right, the the
affordability piece is right that we cannot ignore that piece too. And so I'm not saying that there's an easy solution here, but these are the types of solutions that we have we have to grapple with because that that's really because I I think if we don't then then folks will think it's as
simple as not spending $5,000 on a uh enrollment catchment system, right? No, it's it's actually much more serious than that. >> And I'm just going to offer that it's not for um lack of asking for smaller
conversations. So, those requests have happened. Um and I think we have to really make sure that we're prioritizing the airtime and what we are talking about. If we're talking about buildings versus the budget, like we need to prioritize because we're not going to get their attention for everything. And
so I would offer that as something that we need to really think about the trade-offs of what have we been putting front and center in front of the burrow versus what where the kind of gap we need to address. I I have deeply from our community
discussions it is very evident we need to try to your point like shift the percentage at a minimum try to see but I also don't think it's beyond to say we are putting forth a resolution to kind of almost not force the conversation but
to ask for a more intentional conversation collaboratively and publicly but we need constituents more than the more than the board of ed pushing for this change because I don't hear a lot of folks coming up to the mic to talk about school district funding.
It's more potholes. When will this be done? When is the water going to be done? And so I I'm still deeply asking for our community to show up and advocate for how you want reallocation of money because that is not the number one topic coming forward when the forms are held with our commissioners. And so
I do think we have to keep pushing. Show up in other rooms and not just here because we are going to try but we're not enough. Right? So I just want to offer that as something we have to really push on. >> So then like what is that like what is that like what are the steps to that? Does it
begin with like you said Kelly like let's set >> setting up a meeting >> like set up a meeting a special meeting >> or does it and then like okay let's see what go for like I mean last year it began with a tough conversation for the lady fell in our
lap but like you know is that how it begins I would imagine and that yeah I'm gonna we're going to talk afterwards and I think that if it's um something that we can do to have this conversation with them and actively engage with all of us at the I think it's worth having a conversation.
>> Um I I guess under that topic, I mean, last year there was um a very big and public showing of a collaboration between the district and the burrow. You know, there were public meetings where we heard burrow representatives standing up there with the commissioners and talking about all this collaboration on
the fields and things like that. I mean, what what is the status of all that? And and are is there any money Yeah, exactly right. I mean, you know, what is the status of all that? Um, you know, is there any money in our budget earmarked to the support of any of those plans? Is
anything finalized? And have any of these conversations about funding happened? I mean, I'm I'm not on that committee, so I don't know how those meetings have been going. >> So, um, I'm going to take us back in time. So, last year, the former mayor promised all kinds of
money to Collinswood, right? We're going to get a piece of the pilot. I forgot I forget how much money he was promised us, but there 750,000 and he was going to give us money for the teachers contract. Remember he stood up there. I'm going to give you money to settle teachers contract. I'm going to give you money and sell teachers. It didn't
happen. So what was so we didn't get the money that was promised. So um we kind of you know we're dealing with it. Um going into this year we have
you know a new mayor. We've been meeting with them regularly um to discuss these things. We haven't discussed school funding, but we are talking about um athletic fields and shared services. We still have we have a shared service agreement that's been bouncing back and forth between our attorney and their
attorney. And hopefully we can um get some closure on that. But um my understanding is that they did I didn't see their final budget, but they did allocate 225,000 from pilot to us um in their budget for next year. So, we're
going to get something um a year and a half later, but we are going to get something out of that. Um anything else? >> We're meeting with uh burough leadership uh tomorrow morning to u talk about shared service, talk about some of those
core pieces, and see if we can reconcile uh the partnership and and and move it forward. Um there are currently um no dollars uh on the district side committed to moving the partnership forward.
I will offer I think there's been a lot of we had a lot of engagement and now the momentum to really um as it uh we've described we've had a lot of promises articulated but execution is where the devil's in the details and it's been
very difficult to get everybody on the same page around what we understood publicly and what we are going to really do and so it's it is not for a it is a lot of discussion and a lot of meeting and it's frankly holding a strong position that the district will be
better right like that we are not going to take on more than we need to and so these are very tough conversations which is why I was pointing out the tradeoff of the type right if we keep the rec plan front and center in lie of budget
support current state potent is what I would offer current state we haven't said hey let's rep prioritize the 70 moving the 47% to 50% may stall the impact we've had with the other discussions. So, we do need to balance like how much we're asking and
in what ways. Um, but I there's actually a lot, but it's just not moving as quickly as I think any of us would have hoped in terms of alignment and execution on what was offered and agreed to in alignment. >> And I think something that that you mentioned there is exactly uh I want to
make sure that we're clear about uh or the public is clear that there are a couple different funding streams that that we're talking about here, right? So the the plan to play, right? The facilities piece, the the the um the good sheeperd and the um
uh fields piece that is based on a uh recreation bond that the bureau has already taken out. Right? So that is just one-time money. that's a loan that that uh that's not to do with the um
annual taxes in in that sense that that the that we're that uh um we've been talking about asking them to use right so um while you know I think to your point Zaki there's
definitely a um limit to how much anyone can focus on right there's there's only so many initiatives people can focus on at once so That's definitely the truth there. Um, in terms of logistics,
uh, raising uh, the um, using the tax cap to help our operating budget would not preclude also addressing the recreation. But of course, I I totally understand that there's also a like a a practical focus
issue, right, for human beings. Yeah. All right, for curriculum, I'm going to go ahead and move on to section 13 with >> Good evening everyone. >> Um, items 13.02,
13.03, 13.04 are all upcoming spring field trips at all buildings and levels. This is field trip season. Several more rolled in today. I anticipate more will be added to the agenda by the time you see it
next week. Um but as you can see, students are going here, there, and everywhere with lots of wonderful opportunities in the um concluding weeks of school thanks to a lot of creative planning and partnership with PTAs and school leaders. Item 13.05 or two um uh
medical um out of district home instruction placements. Item 13.06 06 is what I referenced a few moments ago. It is the hopeful approval um of our new elementary uh literacy
curriculum. Um I am recommending that we proceed with HMH into reading as our new elementary reading program. Um you have um you have heard me share updates throughout the past um past
school year that we have been piloting that we have been piloting two um literacy programs this year um in all of our buildings across Collinswood and Oakland in all grade levels in each school not every classroom but a smattering in every building as a
representative um across all of our uh all of our buildings. Um and uh we've been repeatedly seeking feedback from all of the key stakeholders involved, staff, leaders, students of course um
along with um my my own observations of the programs and time in classrooms and time engaging with students. Um and so for a variety of different reasons, um I've recommended to Dr. McDow and before you hear that we proceed with HMH into reading as our as our program going
forward. Um, a couple final things to note and I'll take any questions on that or anything else. Um, uh, this will be a multi-year phased implementation and so, um, as I referenced a few minutes ago, uh, of
course the initial hope was to be able to do a full K5 implementation in one year. um that would have cost several hundred,000 and obviously in the current budget context would have been utterly tonedeaf to everything else going on in our
district right now. And so we have pulled away back pulled back pulled back pulled back repeatedly um to I think someone used the word bare bare minimum earlier. I think we are that is that is what I am presenting for your approval tonight. We would enter into an an an
intent to move into a long a long range multi-year agreement with HMH, but we would only be paying for a small number of grade levels to implement next year with more the following year and more the following year until we do get to a K5 full implementation over multiple
years. Um, that's the most um cost effective way to put a strong program in front of kids little by little over time. Um there is a typo in the section. It says adopted as a K12 program that it
should say K5. We'll fix that right now. >> Thank you for that detail. Um I appreciate that. So when you say a small level, um can I assume starting with K1 maybe and then Great question. Um so um we are actively going back and forth
between our curricular reps and our business office literally as we speak over the last few days. Um because as I was referencing earlier, just like Beth Anne did with her team and re reviewing and reconsidering funding allocation in
in light of everything, uh I'm I'm doing the same. And so um right now we're at a tipping point of being able to um implement um two or three grade levels next year. um if we
implement two grade levels, it frees up some additional funding um for other important staff facing savings potentially. And so I'm uh haggling, I guess is the right word, with our curriculum representatives to see if
they can come down um a bit further. Um but we would actually start with implementation at our upper grade levels and work our way down. That may sound backwards, but here's the rationale. Um over the last few years, our our lower
elementary um emerging reading curriculum, we've strengthened um significantly um in in d you know in direct alignment with science of reading strategies and best practices. So we now have in our K1 and two and to some degree third grade
um a strong universal screener with Dibbles. We have foundations as our core phonics program. We have Heaggerty as our core phmic awareness program. We have Geododes as our decodables program. Um and so um I'm really proud of the strength of our lower elementary um
early literacy programming currently and I'm confident that we could proceed for another year or two with that model in place. our third, fourth, and fifth, especially our fourth and fifth has a ton of um of of gaps in serving kids
well with our reading and writing curriculum at our upper grade levels. And so, we would act we would start with our eldest students and work down um over time. Um um I I'll just also say lastly and then
again I'll take any more questions. Our district already uses HMH for our elementary middle school and to some uh in some areas our math program up up from kindergarten through geometry and algebra 2. So this would from a
teacherfacing aspect this would align programmatically. Um, HMH's parent company um, also owns NWEA MAP, which is our the universal screener that we use for um, secondary schools right now um, and elementary for
math. And so um, if and when future funding is available, HMH um, also includes a it's called performance suite. It's a it's a a data platform that would sync all of those aligned resources from the kids kids data
integrating it with our curricular programs in a really seamless fashion. Right now we do a lot of that manually matching up what kids need with where it lives in the curriculum. So um for for for all of those factors there's a kind of a clean cleanness and efficiency to
it. And then last but truly not least, um the students who um are in the HMH reading pilot um really love the the content. And so when we're in those classrooms, I see one of our reading pilot teachers here tonight. Um the kids
repeatedly tell us that they like what they're reading. The teachers report the same. um that the the content is really engaging and um age appropriate and relevant and um even if they just read a one of the anecdotes that I heard that
was really stuck with me. Sometimes they'll just read a portion of a passage and the kids wondered if they does the could they finish the book and did it exist in the classroom. So there's a real I think increased excitement around um the the content that kids are learning. They think it's hard too which
is great. Um, anyhow, that's my um that's how we got to this point. And I wanted to I wanted to give that context that just like Bethanne and her team were finding ways to be um responsive to the current
same here um in in pulling back significantly from what the um the initial hope was. >> Thank you. Um, who would like to present policy? >> I can hop on if you want. Um,
so 1501 are policies for first read. Um, policy 4352. Um, it's been abolished. And then there's a new policy um, 2530 resources materials. And that's they just go in, they deleted a bunch of looks like they're redefining what's
considered a resource material in a library. Um they spent a lot of time defining what that means. Um 1502 are your policies for second read >> that um that 2530 goes with the 2535 also right? >> Yes.
>> Um that is correct. Um so everything in item 1502 was on last month's agenda and then the regulation um we do a in 1503 we do have a decision
to make. So, in regulation 1552, the sexual harassment of staff, um, we need to on page 13 of the regulation, we need to choose, um, and I'll get to that section. Hold on.
I'll read it to you. We basically have to decide when we're doing an investigation um in order to reach a deter determination we need to decide what the decision maker what type of evidence they're going to use. So the two options are um
the preponderance of the evidence standard listen I'm just reading and a clear and convincing evidence standard. So, basically, I'm going to do an investigation. Um, I did a little research today and um the overwhelming
um selection or what at least the AI on on my computer was recommending um was the the board select the preponderance of evidence standard that that's usually what stands. >> So, that's usually like that's the scale the evidence
>> is which way you lean, >> right? So, that's what they're recommending that the board choose. But I just needed to bring that to your we just need to know which option. Um so if everybody's okay with that we have to select and then and then once we do this will be our regulation.
>> Not tonight but >> not tonight but are we voting on both of those or are we just putting we're saying this is the one we want to put up for a vote? >> No no this is a regulation. um we need to select one of those two options in this regulation and once we select the option that'll be the regulation
because regs only require one read by the board. So, this is a revised regulation, but we need to decide. Um, like I said, my my research suggested like um Danielle said, the preponderance of evidence.
>> I know we're not voting, but that's usually what we use court and family court and everything, >> right? >> The preponderance one. So, that would be my recommendation. But, as long as if everybody's okay with that. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> It keeps things more fair, too. >> Yeah.
Okay. So, um, so that's that item. I will have so um the H reports are going to be next month and then we will approve all the you know those items and then now we're going to go to section 17 which which is
our option for public participation. So, >> do you want to close out of me first? >> Um, yes, I would like to close out of ME, but before we do that, I I think I just have a couple of quick points. Thank you. That's a good point. Um, so just a couple of quick things I want to
alert everybody about. Uh, we do are asking to give us some dates on a possible August retreat. So, if you can bring up if you can send us some dates that you might be available in August. I know that's a busy time of year. We're asking in April. the um our board our state board rep asked us to to have a
retreat and said that she needed some dates. So that's why we're we're having this conversation. So if you can look at your August calendar in April and give us some idea when >> I know it's kind of crazy, but she's actually scheduling into the fall. >> Yeah. >> Um so I told her I'd get her a couple dates. >> Look closer towards the end of August.
>> I can send an email about that. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for um Thank you. Yes. The second thing um I wanted to say is that the national the uh induction for the national honor society is actually the same night as our board meeting right on the 29th. So they have moved
their um their time to start at 5:45 in case any of us want to attend. So if you would like to attend the National Honor Society for a little bit of time before we go to the board meeting, please let us know so we don't meet qu National Junior I'm sorry. Thank you. Thank you. Um it's late. National Junior Honor
Society. um for the uh middle school. And the other thing, the final thing that I want to bring up is that tomorrow uh Mark Newbie Elementary School, they're doing like a green team f um Earth Day festival, their first ever, and they have invited us to attend that as well. So, we got that email late last
night and then uh found out that we could open it up to everybody. So, if you would like to come, I don't think we can meet quorum, but if you want to be there, I will be there. Um and so that's, you know, let me know if you want to attend that. All right, that is from 2 to 3:30. You don't need to be
there the whole time, you can just pop in and see what they're doing. So, even if a lot of people want to come, which I don't suspect will be the case, but if that's the case, just let me know what time you can be there and then I'll try to stagger that a little bit. Um, and so now I would like to make a motion to exit committee of the whole. >> So, moved >> and a second. Second.
>> Okay. So, thank you. Now is our time for public comment. So, all in favor? I'm sorry. I >> I'll get it. I'll get it. Um, so for uh public discussion or public participation, please stand, state your name and address and keep your comments to three minutes or less. The public is reminded that attempts to
resolve all concerns in place should first go through appropriate staff members and administrators. Hi, Robin Hogan, CEA President. So, I appreciate all the discussion that has gone on and I understand these are heavy decisions and I also appreciate the fact that we've been, you know, you guys have
had to talk about like large scale things, but there are a lot of details back up this decision whether you want to think about them or not. Um, the student facing staff are being asked
to do more and there's fewer of us. Number of students hasn't declined, but there's going to be more. There's going to be less of us and so that's a concern. So, there's an impact on instruction and education that we really need to be thinking about
through this process. Um, and there are a lot of fine details. Now, I I will say that Dr. McDonald. I just had a conversation that has actually given me some hope and I feel a little bit better perhaps about something. But like there are some really fine details
that we're talking about like like there because I was looking at trying to make heads or tails out of what was listed in the section that is 14 where they're talking about the staff members and I'm assuming those are staff members that are staying and because I know some numbers not all numbers I noticed a
difference between instructional assistance. I know I was trying to figure out the administrative assistant situation and things like that and I know Dr. was showing me just recently giving me an update. But some of my concerns are like are there going to be and I've talked to Dr.
McDell about this just a minute ago is are there going to be any changes to the um number of ESS aids we get so that perhaps we could keep some of our colleagues with AIDS who have been working for us for a long time coming in day in day out and have building relationships with the community.
because the numbers didn't jive. We're they're releasing some instructional aids that are cons members of the union. Um that's a concern for my and I I was and I did appreciate the discussion that we had about the um program that you're
getting and that gave me a little more glimpse of insight into what's going on at the board office. There was a retirement of a confidential secretary and now we're releasing so that position stays and but now we're releasing a CA position administrative assistant over
there. It just really feels like the union's under attack right now and I and it's very concerning like the unification plan still don't know what it is. Um I don't we're renting good sheeperd we've got now we have gonna have an
empty building at Garfield. There's some money right there. If we don't rent Good Shepard anymore, we move into into Garfield. So, there are still like a lot of details that whether we want to think about them or not, the public really needs you to think about them because they're impacting instruction and
they're impacting staff every day. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Um, we took some notes. We will follow up on the back end. Um, I don't see anybody else anybody else coming. So, at this point, I'm going to move into section
18, which is adjournment committee of the whole. And before I do that, I would like to say thank you. A big thank you to all of you tonight for all of your conversation and questions and spending the evening here. It's big ask. Um, and a big thank you to the CEA members that stayed the entire time. Um, and of
course to our buildings and grounds and our tech staff and our administrators out there. We appreciate you. So, section 18, adjournment. Um, I would like to make a motion or can can I have a motion to adjurnn the meeting? >> So, move. >> Second. >> All in favor? Got it. I