Is it good now? >> Yeah, it's good. >> Okay. And they can hear us on there. Yeah. Okay. Awesome. Um, well, welcome everybody to our special CC20 special meeting on screens edtech and AI. And, uh, just to review our agenda for the
night. Um, can you flip it ahead? Show me how to Great. >> No, that's way further than we can. >> Um, can you all right there? Yeah. I
don't know. >> Okay. >> Okay. Cool. All right. So, um, we're going to start in a minute with some introductions from Kelly and myself. uh review some of the purposes for this meeting. Um Kelly's going to review the research, some of the major issues, um
the national and local landscape and some of the policies and also uh parental actions that have happened. Um and then we'll uh have some time for you guys to talk to each other and uh for the people online to um introduce themselves in the chat and share
concerns and then Q&A and closing. Um, and so we're gonna start with introductions for Kelly and myself. So, my name is Alina Lewis. Um, I am a BSI parent here at this school. I have a seventh grader and a fourth grader. And
I'm also a CEC20 member and I also have a PhD in education. And um I'm here I I got to the parent advocacy work because when HMH came out um I was very concerned about the sort of uh wrote
learning that it was promoting the lack of books um and also some of the connection that it had to screens in the classroom and I ended up getting very involved and getting on the CEC and I'm coming at this whole conversation um as
an educator and also a parent who really values and wants my kids, especially the younger kids and all kids, to have time to play and explore um and not be sitting in front of a screen, particularly when they're in kindergarten. Um and I think that the
DOE more broadly has um kind of been behind in terms of articulating a really clear policy and rationale and what they see as this technologies role uh for our kids. Um, and so I'm excited to be here.
I've been talking with a lot of parents in the district and hearing lots of different concerns all related about screens and about AI and how that has been manifested in the classroom. Um, and so I'm excited to be here tonight, hear from some parents, and also hear
from Dr. Clancy who has a lot of information about AI. So, Kelly, do you want to introduce yourself? >> Hi everybody. I'm Kelly Clancy. I have three kids. two of them go here to PS682. So, this building has three schools in it. My kids go to the Academy of Talented Scholars and Alena's go to
BSI. So, we we share a building and we're friends. Um, but they're sort of split up. And so, first I want to thank um our great administrators for letting us use this space tonight. I will say that I think Elena and I both agree that our schools are the outliers in a good way about what we're talking about. And
so, um, I als I especially want to thank our principal, Miss Bertellic, is here and our vice principal, Miss Tilt, is here. Um and then our really supportive like u you know Mr. De M and Mr. like I will say that um I
have been I it's been really so I'm so my I have a PhD in political science I have three kids two of them go here now and then my son is at Mark Twain now and the way I also came to this work is and how and I became friends is my son came home from school the first day of fourth grade and he was like they took all my
books away I was like what do you mean and what had happened was the transition to HMH over the summer right had gone from this curriculum like that was rich in books and the kids are reading books all the time to the sort of soulless age of eight curriculum. So I I really hadn't gone to very many parent meetings before that and I started showing up and
saying like I feel like I'm a crazy person but I where are the books? And I will say that our administration has really bent over backwards to recreate this HMH mandate from the district around also making sure that every kid has book clubs that every kid
gets to read. And it is it shouldn't have to be that hard. Like it shouldn't take parents showing up and being like where are the books? Our kids should have to read books. And also our teachers and our administrators are experts in learning and experts in pedigogy and experts in culturally
responsive education and that's what has absolutely been eradicated by these like mandated curricula and then also what AI is attacking as well. So I think Alina and I come at this through similar perspectives in terms of what brought us into this. And I think that the fingerprints and we'll get into this in
a few minutes of how AI threatens all everything that I think is most important in education. Uh the fingerprints were laid with the transition to HMH and um and so they and they haven't stopped there. And so I um I'm on CC20 as well which and um I also
am on my school's SLT and we've had lots of conversations about uh what screens look like in the classroom in our school and what AI looks like in the classroom in our school and I'm also the founder of um PACE which is parents for AI caution and educational spaces which is we've started doing national and even
international cons consulting about um how parents can advocate in their communities for AI policies that protect kids from the sort of pernicious effects of AI in education. >> Thank you. Thanks, Kelly. Oh, you can flip ahead, Kevin. Um, so I already went
through the agenda. You can go next one. Great. So, some of our purpose here tonight always, uh, want to learn more. Um, and that's where Dr. Clancy comes in. She's gonna help educate us here. Um, also to better understand some of the district-wide concerns. So, we do want to hear from the people are in
person and we're going to solicit this online as well. um generate ideas for potential um action steps, particularly steps that parents can take and then of course always uh build community. So we're going to make meet people that we
didn't know before. Um so I am going to turn it over to Kelly. Kelly's done a lot of research um about the landscape as it relates to AI and edtech and education. Um and so first she's going to talk right now of the kind of larger
context nationally and then on the next slide she'll get into some of the more local context in terms of the DOE and district 20 specifically. >> Yeah. >> So I want to start off by saying that the reason that Elena and I um with the support of John who I should have picked
earlier, thank you John for how supportive that uh we have I think also the most c supportive CC president that we could ask for. Um and John basically like lets Alina um you know give like do things like this which I'm really appreciative of
because we've been hearing from parents from schools across the district through emails and showing up at CC's and talking to us at events who are extremely concerned about edtech in their schools and they feel like they're not being heard um in conversations
they're having on the school level, on the district level, on the city level. they feel like there's really a lack of um of taking parents seriously. And I will be candid and say that's Alina and I think I both think that it's because the system of mayoral control makes it very easy not to take parents seriously,
right? There's no any sort of like check parental check on what happens. Um and so the reason that we wanted to do this is because we wanted to give parents a lot of the information that they've been asking for. Um so we put this together tonight. Um, so I wanted to start off in
terms of what the national context looks like by saying that there's really been a sea change over the past nine months to a year in terms of the national conversation around edtech and general AI in particular. People were not having
this conversation in this way on a national level six or nine months ago. So, in the past week, uh, there's been an article in the New Yorker, there have been three articles in the New York Times, there's been an article in 74 million, there's been an article in every local newspaper in the country, I
think, talking about parents resisting edtech. And that wasn't happening a year ago, right? It was happening maybe in local communities. Even in August when I was trying to talk to parents about AI, um, it wasn't a conversation that was happening. But then, you know, things you don't see change, you don't see
change, and then you do. And what you've seen is this like change in legislation, change in thinking and change in research that's all sort of coalesed together. And so I will say that um one of the things that's bothered me the most like I have a PhD in political
science. I have a very good social scientist like and then when I started coming to these meetings in August and saying we need to pay attention to the research I will tell you that like one of the places Hi come in have bagels have a seat we're so happy you're here. Oh, the one.
>> Okay. There's food, there's drinks. Welcome, welcome, welcome. Hi, everybody. Um, so the research is overwhelmingly clear that AI is bad for people in general and kids in particular, and that
sort of cool stuff. And I will tell you that uh neuros I don't know how many of you hang out with a lot of neuroscientists, a lot of cognitive psychologists, a lot of developmental psychologists. I will tell you that that's a group of people that are not known for the dramatic, right? They're not a lot of dramatic people. Usually weren't theater majors. They're not
perfect hysterics. But in the past six months, they've published articles that talk about cognitive debt, cognitive offloading, cognitive stunting, cognitive foreclosure, cognitive surrender, cognitive trippy cognitive flatlining. And so this the the the the
community that studies brains is running out of adjectives to describe what a five alarm fire it is that AI is entering into the conversation. And I've read all of these articles. I've talked to numerous neuroscientists and all of
them are saying with one voice that we are dramatically underestimating the impact that AI has on brains. And the reason I'm saying brains in general instead of kids brains in particular is I think that there's a myth particularly in the DOE that if you protect the
brains of kindergarteners it's open season for every other brain and everybody is fine and that is not what the research is telling you. The research is saying that this is happening in per the period of second adolescence as well. So brains that are like kids brains that are like 16, 17,
18, 19, 20 are just as vulnerable to this as kids who are 5, six, seven, which means that we cannot say we'll protect elementary school kids and high schoolers will be fine. That is not supported by research. Like it's just like I don't know another way to say it. Like that is just not what the research says. And I know that most of us here
are like are in the business of like pretending or like protecting K through eight, but I just want to sort of earmark the fact that we can't throw high schoolers to the wolves when it comes to this. I was talking to Danny earlier and I was saying that um I had I
was at I I did a presentation at Trinity College Dublin and I had all of these faculty members coming up to me saying please stop sending us high schoolers that have used AI because we don't need high schoolers who know how to use AI. We need high schoolers who know how to think. And this generation of kids has
stopped thinking. And the last thing I'll say about brains and the way they develop is like all of us are adults and we can engage strategically in cognitive operating. Like I'm sure some of you use TAGPT. I'm sure some of you use AI and like we're not here to judge that at
all. Um but you can sort of decide strategically to do that, right? Like I decide that I'm going to use Google Maps to navigate Brooklyn. I don't have a map of Brooklyn in my head the way my husband does, right? Or the way John does when John's like driving at night. He's like, "We're going to take this side. We're going to need this edge street," right? Um, but that's cognitive
offloading I decide to do as an adult who, you know, I can make those decisions with kids. They're call they're not calling it cognitive offloading anymore. They're calling it cognitive stunting because those fundamental neurons never get developed, right? So, you don't ever get the chance
for those those uh those skills to form in your brain. And when that closes, it closes. And so one of the reasons that like this has become so important that I've like that I've spent so much of my time doing this is like I I just feel
like I don't want my kids who are 12, eight, and six being the guinea pigs for what will be a failed experiment that will end up with a generation of kids that can't freaking think, right? And so like like I said before, this is my school. I love my
school. I love our administrators. I love our teachers. And I tell them that at all of our meetings, too. And my administrators have been really, really good at working with me, at working with us, at trying to balance ridiculous DOE and district mandates. I can call them that. You don't have to. Uh, with what
they know is best for kids. And that's not happening at your schools. And I know it's not happening at your schools because I get emails from you telling me it's not happening at your schools. And that's not fair. Right. Okay. So the that's the first thing I wanted to say is that we're we're we're screwing up kids rates. Uh the second thing I want
to say is that this is the first generation of kids to be to do worse off on a number of cognitive measures than their parents did, right? And so like we did better than our kids did on a whole measure of cognitive assessments. And
the reason is because of the amount of screens in schools. And so they've measured this a couple of different ways, but they've done like several international studies that show if you look at the increase of screens in schools. That's where you see the decrease in cognitive ability. And so we
know that these like onetoone laptop programs, this idea that what we can do to make it successful is put screens in every classroom has failed. And and to me like as a again like as a social scientist, as somebody that reads scientific literature, uh you know, I
don't know if any of you like follow politics, but when when election is called, sometimes they're like, I've seen enough. Like I feel very confident as a political scientist that I've seen enough of what this literature is saying to say this research has come to a consensus that this is bad for
kids. And now the question is like what do we do about it? And so I will tell you that the rest of the country is moving the opposite direction of New York City. And so I'm having conversations with call having calls with people across the country. And there's a lot of good news places that
isn't New York. So like Kansas and Utah and Illinois and Vermont and Maine and Los Angeles are all passing these bills that do different things, but they're essentially like different ways of getting at at a student's digital bill of rights, right? So actively limiting the amount of screen time kids have.
Utah passed a law that I love that says every parent can know every interaction the kid has with a screen. So like every parent now has the right to know how much time their kids are on screens during the day. We don't have that right in New York City. And um Los Angeles is the first Los Angeles is the second
biggest school district besides ours. in Los Angeles just passed this huge landmark bill saying that they're going to radically curtail the amount of time kids are on screens there, which is a huge win for parent organizers who have been pushing for this for a really long
time. And so the good news is that this isn't it's not too late, right? That there are things that can do, there are laws that can be passed, there are things that can happen. Uh the bad Oh, and then the other thing I'll just add is that Fair Play, which is a national organization, just called for a
nationwide five-year pause on all AI in schools, which is huge. Like, it's the first call for a national national call of its kind. Um, and it's based on on all of the research that I just talked about. And so on the national level,
things are going this way. Unfortunately, in New York City, things are going this way, which is slide six. Um you can flip to the next one. >> Uh so the question is like how are things going in our city right and the answer is not great. Uh I will tell you that um
you know speaking my personal capacity maybe not as a representative of CC coding but maybe as a representative of CT as well. Uh last night there was a six and a half hour pep meeting. I was there for every minute of it and it was because parents from across the city
from four of the five burrows. You could guess which burrow opted itself out. It's the one that you have to cross to get to. They four of the five bureaus were there begging Pep to pay attention to the fact that they don't want AI in schools. And
it was like it was really like this like beautiful democratic moment to witness because parents were talking about it on the budget amendments, parents were talking about in the contract, parents were talking about it on um on school utilization. And so it was just this
really amazing moment where all of these parents were like made the chancellor sit there for six and a half hours and pay attention. But the reason but like the question is why, right? Why did they have to be there for six and a half hours when you know my kids woke me
up at 6 o'clock this morning. I don't know about yours, but like I got home from this meeting at 2 a.m. and then at 6 o'clock it's like and the reason is because um what the city is doing right now with AI guidance is absolutely unacceptable and all of you should be
angry and appalled about it. And so we um district 20 overwhelmingly passed a resolution calling for a moratorium on AI. We did that in December. uh it in uh our council has heated debates about a
lot of things. We passed this resolution 102 on the same night district 4 passed the similar resolution and then earlier this year it's passed at another Brooklyn CEC and then two uh queen CC's as well and then there's a Bronx CEC and
then a couple of others in Brooklyn and Queens that are in the process of passing them. >> Yeah, I have a question. Um I remember that meeting I was just wondering what we can do when our our schools aren't abiding by the moratorum. >> Yeah that's a great well so this is the thing that is a great question. So your
schools don't have to abide by the moratorum because of mayoral control. So we live in an anti-democratic system uh which I could I'm talking personal capacity for a second that is representative of the feelings of all of CUC20. So because of mayoral control CC's only have performative power and so
you elect us and you expect that what we do should be able to have an impact on schools but the truth is that it doesn't and so we pass resolutions and they go to face which is the family and community engagement >> family and community engagement and then face uh pretends to acknowledge them and
then ignore them. Um, and so what happened after all of these CEC's pass resolutions is all of us sent emails being like, before there's guidance, talk to us. Before there's guidance, talk to parents. Like, consult parents
because we want a part in what this guidance is going to look like. And we were told that we would, and we were told that they would. And then one morning, we woke up and there was a bunch of guidance and none of us had been consulted. Right? So, they tell you, there's a slide that they have that says they consulted 1,800 parents. I think that I'm the person in New York
City that's talked to the most people about AI. I've met zero parents that they talked to. I don't know a single person that they talked to before they released this guidance. I just And so, I know that they didn't consult any member of any CEC that had passed a resolution.
I know they didn't consult any member of the data privacy working group, which the chancellor had convened specifically to get parental input on this. And so, When I tell you that parents have been shut out of this process, like genuinely that's what I mean. And so they're ignoring the mortorium because they can ignore the mortorium because parents
have no rights under the system whatsoever. And so >> what they I mean like people don't usually talk like this, but if anything's going to change, we can't pretend like I think we just have I think the time for pretending like the
system works is over because it doesn't work. And so um I will so like what happened was so our res our CC passed a resolution we weren't consulted the guidance was released uh if you looked at the guidance which we'll we'll have we'll show you this in a couple minutes
like there's a form at the end that's like check how much you like AI do you like it a lot do you like it a whole lot like do you love it you super love it and then it's like give us feedback and it's a box this big for feedback right like it's it's too small to type my name in like it's literally not enough
characters to type plates and then you can like you could copy and paste large text in there but it's not inviting you to give your true feelings, right? And so as people who were elected to represent
our community, we've been trying really really hard since then to help the DOE come to the understanding that what they've been doing isn't sufficient. So when the guidance was released, we were given 40 we were given
45 days to give comment, right? So when that that 45day window opened immediately holy holiday started, right? So Passover started and then Easter started and then there was spring break and that 45 days includes includes weekends. And so our window for
talking to each other, for being educated, for doing all of those things is is sharply curtailed. Right? So on paper we have 45 days but in reality there's like I don't know like two weeks or something in order to have conversations like this have
conversations our community understand what's happening in the schools understand what this guidance says and then figure out what questions you have right and so what we did was we at our district 20 town hall we asked the chancellor like hey will you have a meeting with us will you have a meeting
with the CEC's that voted for this and will you just listen to us and he said that he would and we followed up like we sent an email from all five of the CEC's, right? And that hasn't ever been scheduled. So, there were two meetings that were scheduled um and both of the meetings that were SK with like parent leaders. It was very unclear which
parent leaders were invited to which and then it you were told that if you had a question, you would submit it in advance and the meetings were at 5:30 on a Tuesday when everybody in this room is picking up your kids and commuting home from school, right? So, that's not what parent engagement looks like. That's not
you don't that's not what it looks like to have a system that's interested in having a conversation about what the guidance is. And I will also tell you that like um if you read the guidance, the guidance is terrible. And like again, we can mince words and we could
talk about it in a more sophisticated way, but this guidance says that in any school in New York City for any reason, any child can use any AI as long as it's been rubber stamped by government. And that's it. Like there's nothing in that
guidance that restricts the use of AI for any students in any way. So, I had a conversation with some people at the mayor's office and I was like, "This guidance is terrible." And they're like, "Kelly, it's not terrible." And I was like, "No, this guidance is terrible." They're like, "Tell me why." And I said what I just said to you. And there was this like long pause and they were like,
"Oh, you thought that this chancellor was going to release guidance that restricted student use." And I said, "Yes." Like that's the whole game. Like that's yes. And they were like, "Oh, that's never going to happen." And so I was like, "It is bad for kids to use AI." And
they're like, "Yeah, but this makes sure that AI companies go through this regulatory process, right?" So, let me tell you that like they tell you that AI guidance is going to come later that will restrict student use, but everybody agrees that this guidance right now restricts student use in no way. So, and
then so that's the first thing. The second thing is that you have no right to opt out and nothing asks for your consent. Even though the platforms that all of this is built on, you have to be 18 to legally use it. And so I have complicated feelings about opting out of
things because I think in general we should advocate for system change instead of just change for like when you have a sympathetic principle like my kid shouldn't have just different treatment than your kids do. However, there is no way for you to opt out. There is no way
uh for you to there's also no way for you to give consent. Right? So, I will tell you that and I said this at a CC meeting that like my daughter's class won the prize jar and I got I got the chance to opt out of her eating munchkins, right? Like her lovely like preschool like her lovely kindergarten
teachers were like, "They're going to eat munchkins. Here are the ingredients. Does anybody have a problem? If I can opt out of the snacks my kids eat, I can't opt them out of chat box. That's banana crackers." Right? Like that makes no sense. I had to sign a consent form for my kid my son to go write a poem on
a sidewalk, right? Like so why am I asked to consent to him? Like they were like make sure he has a hat and make sure he has sun sunscreen which is literally more guidance than any of the protections put on these AI, right? It doesn't exist. And so the the reality is
that what they tell you is that they released the guidance because we needed somewhere to start. But the reality is though they released irresponsible guidance that opened the floodgates. And so now every single day we hear stories like somebody came to our maybe one of y'all came to our last CC meeting and
said or the one before said their kid you what first grader used to have time reading books and now they have to do an hour of waggle every day so there's no more book reading in the morning. Um, somebody, one of the kindergarters who just transferred into our school, transferred into our school because the
as a kindergartener, they were doing an hour of air and an hour of I Ready every single day in the classroom. We have bagels, we have drinks. Um, and two hours a day of I Ready in a mirror
is is soul crushingly bad for a kindergartener, right? And so what it means is that at this point there's if you're not if you don't decide to get angry in organizing your schools and organizing your district and organizing your communities, the DOE is not going
to pass guidance to protect your kids. And our district is not interested in that either. And so the only people who can save us are ourselves. >> That's how I got. >> That's great because that brings us to our next prompt. Kevin, can I skip that?
you can skip to the next one. Great. So, now we want to hear from you guys. Um, so this is how we'll do it for if you're here in person. Um, find two other people to introduce yourselves to if you guys want to mix up based on where you are because I know you guys
know each other and do things in each other. Um, your name, your school, kids grades, if you're on the PTA, whatever. Um, what are your biggest, and this is what we're really interested in gathering um, as data. What are your biggest concerns regarding screens, edtech, AI in education from your
perspective as a parent? Um what are any potential actions that you all think that you might take or begin to take um based on some of what you're learning? So we'll do that for the folks in person. We'll have probably 10 fiveish minutes and then we'd like to hear from
some people. If you are online, um Kevin will unlock the chat and please introduce yourself with the same prompt and share um what your concerns are in the chat online and we'll save that chat and use that for data and then we will come back together and I would love to
hear as the full group some of the concerns um that you all have. So, five-ish minutes, find a new friend. Who are you and why are you here? important part of this. Um, but we do have some people online too, so I didn't
want to leave them too long. Um, >> I would love to hear from just a handful of the groups. What are some of the concerns that came up in your small group conversations? Um, do you guys want to just start us off? >> Can they hear us?
>> Oh, yeah. Did you turn the sound back on? >> Yeah, it's on. >> It's on. Okay, great. Um, so maybe Danny, do you guys want to start uh from over here at this table? Yeah, >> we were Well, so so we're we're usually preschoolers. Um, program director and parent two kids. So, we were we were
learning about what is what is the situation like after middle school level. Um, and it's it's quite frankly uh worrying. Um, it's it's scary. Yeah. Um I mean I I was saying I I was looking for as we were searching
for kindergartens for my daughter. Um we were looking for something where there would be a lot of interaction play based exploration based learning. Uh and really the way for us to do that would would either be to engage in complicated feelings about opting out either to come to a school like the one here where some
combination of lottery maybe that's possible or to go to a private school like there were complicated feelings about opting out in assets as well. or I don't know move out of the city or playing whatever whatever exam we're all moving to. >> Yeah. So, so I think we're all really
worried about the cognitive stunt that is that the potential is there for whether the screen based teaching is AI powered or simply you know quote unquote dumb screenbased teaching. It's it's the same except now
now there's this added component which is additionally generative AI based as well. >> Thank you. What were some other key concerns that came up? >> Um I concerns about like just data and
privacy. Um, you know, I think everybody's well aware of the curriculum associate associates lawsuit, but outside of that, my background is in healthcare and we have very strict like, you know, stipulations about how any data can be managed or who has
access to it. And I feel like that's lacking in education. Um, and it's scary when you think about when you register your kids for school, you know, the house has their street address when they were kids, the mothers made a name, like that's all right there and nobody's u
making sure it's safe. Um I also mentioned that my experiences with like HMHical um and some of these other AI screenbased testing platforms um my kids teachers aren't even reading their work >> most of the time and it's pretty
apparent during teach parent teacher conferences um it's apparent when I have to flag my kids um like dormant and they are not the ones raing it. So, I have a >> I mean, hopefully it's isolated, but it's in both my kids classes right now.
Um, and I think that's not going to be uncommon when AI is generating, reviewing things, generating feedback from both the student and the teacher, or maybe just the teacher. Um, and then also, you know, lot of critical thinking, writing.
>> Yeah. And um that's what you shared with me is sim a similar thing which I I think is super interesting because the argument often made is that it allows for personalized learning but hearing you guys speak it sounds like it's actually the opposite. And just throwing out a couple things from the chat here.
Um I see similar concerns about critical thinking. Um and then people also asking about next steps we'll talk about in a little bit. Um but yeah again a lot of critical thinking, reading and writing. Um and also some of the sort of social
elements to learning um because what I was sharing with Michelle is learning is theorized uh as a social endeavor. It is inherently to learn is inherently a social um enactment. So uh the notion that somehow a machine could do that
with a child is contrary to some of that theory and research. You all have other conversations? >> Yeah. >> Come up from other conversations. >> I was just like very skeptical of like the big tech companies that were just like,
>> you know, just this is new technology. So I just I'm yeah that the DOE just jumped right in. So that's a concern. >> I want to share an experience about the new technology aspect of it. And this is just speaking my own professional experience. I work for a large company
that makes drugs and we use different AI and machine learning based tools. >> The level of lockdown of data, >> quality control, um obsessive iteration over how we engineer the systems that
sit on top of the AI back end >> um are monumental. >> Yeah, >> they cost a lot of money. It takes a lot of labor time of skilled scientists, right? Right. And these aren't these are built by adults who you know mostly we
think develop brains, right? >> And and so in order to do that where a company truly is is u supporting its bottom line, putting its bottom line on the line when using this technology >> requires such an extreme level of um
control and data privacy or confidentiality that to just say, "Oh yeah, we're gonna it's the way of the future." It puts the lie to the heart that it's the way of the future. The way of the future is to extremely control and lock down and know why you're using this technology.
>> I have a friend who's a software developer and every single day he sends me a text losing his mind over the what you're saying. He's like, we use dedicated computers that cannot leave the room that have closed networks and even then they can't talk to each other.
Blah blah blah blah blah. and he's like it it genuinely makes his mind start to unravel the cavalarity with which we deal with like and and like you mentioned the curriculum associates lawsuit. Not only are there potentials for data breaches which is terrible but
we know that they uh they are purposefully intentionally misusing our students data in a way that's not protected. And I will tell you that I was curious. So there's a DOE presentation. The DOE presentation have
like the email address for the all of you can do this. This is a fun exercise. It has an email address for the student privacy officer and it said you can email the student privacy officer and you can ask what AI products your kids are using. And so I emailed her and I was like, hi Nancy here. My students what products are they using? And she
was like oh you should email your kids principles. And I was like that's weird because this presentation said like that you would have access to this. And she was like, "There's no centralized list. Principals can do whatever they want." And I was like, "This is not what the guidance is saying. This isn't what the DOA is saying." And then I was like,
"So, can you tell me I'm curious about all of the things that have been Trojan horse into H.M.H., right? I know that HMH has undergone like this vendor approval process. I'm interested in writable and waggle and revision and grammar aid and blah blah blah blah blah. all of these AI products that now
exist that didn't exist when HMH initially underwent vendor the certification whatever uh can you tell and and so I was like can you tell me have those undergone like Irma certification and then she said you have to foil that and I was like I'm sorry I
you I can't know and so she was like she's like there's an NDA that keeps you from knowing the last time that HMH had to undergo these privacy audits. And I was like, "This is bananas to me." So I went back and forth and back and forth. And uh and so then the the way this
conversation ended was that the this the privacy officer employed by the DOE that all of our taxpayers pay protects the privacy of companies, not the privacy of our kids. And like that maybe isn't surprising, but it's something we should be clear on, right? That's something that we shouldn't pretend that they are
protecting our kids data in any serious way because they're >> um and uh the other thing that I just want to say one other thing which is which is good news and also transitions to our conversation about what we can do >> but last night >> uh I think a lot of you know but we were
talking before some of you got here there's a six and a half hour long pep meeting. I was there for six and a half hours. I could have flown to Paris and instead I sat through a meeting and um one of the contracts on the agenda was
for ABC Mouse and ABC Mouse was a um an AI powered highly engaging literacy and math tool for 3K through two right so three year olds four year olds whatever and um and
lit so they let vendors testify in favor of this platform which feels like they shouldn't be allowed to testify in public. They did. Three of them did. And what they they build as the selling point for this, they were like, "Kids start using it and they don't want to stop. Teachers say that they can't get
heads do this." And we were like, >> "You were advertising that you were putting an addictive product in front of three-year-olds. What are you doing?" And this person, she this vendor stood up and she was like, "My four-year-old now tests at a first grade level for independent numeracy." And I was like,
"Your four-year-old shouldn't be testing at a first grade level for independent literacy. Like, go give her some blocks. Like, what are you doing?" And so, but this room full of parents and teachers stood up and they were like, "This isn't what we want for our schools. This isn't what we want for our schools. This isn't
what we want for our kids." And it was really like, if you if you don't have six and a half hours, watch this whole this whole meeting. like listening to people testify against that contract is really sort of moving and overwhelming. >> Shot down. >> What's that? And then they did. That's
the only contract that they voted against. And so that's the good news is that like you So the I mean I think that the good news is that parents across the city are really mad and it's working. So like before the pep meeting there was going
to be an AI high school and then they pulled the AI high school that didn't have the votes. And they were there's this like lovely middle school. They were going to take the middle school out of their place and put an AI themed high school there instead. And the it didn't have the votes. So the chancellor pulled
that ahead of time and the all of these kids came and testified that instead what they should do is grow that high school to be a 6 through 12 school. It looks like they're going to do that. So that was a huge win at PEP last night. And then also that we that contract got shut down. And so it's not the end of
the story because they'll be back. But it was like a huge victory for the for the way that the rhetoric has changed in a year, right? Because now people that were testifying have this language that are like >> you saying that this technology is
highly engaging is bad when you're talking about four year olds like and I don't think people were talking like like I don't think that that was like a common way to talk about things a year ago. And now I was I met with a a lawyer the other day who was talking about how in California they have design codes to
keep technology from knowingly misusing its users and part of that means creating engagement prolonging edtech like I mean what I does is it like uses dopamine hits to keep your kids going right and like and that is a bad way to
incentivize learning. Quick question about I already that maybe you have insight. >> We love to talk about how much >> like I so I know like the argument was when it was first rolled out was co and we needed the data. Okay. So now we're
we're done with CO. Why is this still happening in the district? Like why does Dr. Pto feel like we still need to use I Ready? I think I have an answer because I was reading I read recently and um
uh the only I mean it could be made up because they actually make up a lot of efficacy data but um state test scores they say it helps state test scores but >> I know it doesn't and that's my other a big issue I have too is the DOE if you
read I read reports on efficacy it's very clear that the DOE does not know how to that >> these these programs um it's like observational at best and then at other times it's clearly made up >> or they'll just like completely shift
it. It's like they just change the scale and think nobody will notice that that happens. >> So do you guys have any insights >> still happen? Uh >> yeah. >> Well, it's also I Ready is still citywide. Um so all the districts are
universal. Um but in when we get to um the resources there has been a lot of I mean Kelly has a whole p one pager on i um and I do think given what Kelly is saying about the way the landscape is changing and
what happened in LA where the parents demanded um an audit. They said, "We want to audit all edtech." To your point before, they now have the right to audit all these edtech contracts. Um, and to see what is being paid for what and how
much. Um, because there is I Ready is proven to is not a fact. There is no research. You can read all of this stuff. It's essentially a scam. Um, that >> some of what you said, >> yeah, the city has bought into it. But I guess my point is, and we'll let's we
can start getting to this, but um if we make enough noise, whether that's citywide or districtwide, we could get that reversed. >> Yeah. So >> and and one of the things I was thinking about potentially for I Ready, I don't know how we'd get this together, but
like a mass opt out as a way to start. Um because it is literally I ready is we we are the tax our money is being wasted and then our kids are being forced to sit here in this asinine thing and there are districts in or schools in 20 where
they're also using it for instruction. I don't know if that's the case at 185, but I have talked to other parents. >> Their like homework is to go online. >> I think that's required at FLT today that parents don't really put their pit on ready. We don't really
use it in the classroom. So why is the PTA spending $25,000? >> Who is waiting for this? Because why does the PTA are not entitled school to earn 185? But then how can it be a DOE requirement if you're not >> PTA pays for it is so weird.
>> There's two different things. So it's it is a universal screener by the city and then some schools can opt to buy the curriculum portion of it where the BCA opts to buy it or the principal
sometimes and we use like we could print the curriculum. They could um could >> but they shouldn't is they shouldn't we shouldn't do this the sprints. We shouldn't do it. It's bad for kids. It's not good. Uh but so like the so there is
a there's this so I am a pro like so I went through and I looked at every single research study that I could find about I and anything that was paid that was paid for by edtech they sciencewatched and I was
like okay so these are science books and then I looked at everything that was not paid for by edtech and it shows that there's absolutely no sort of like any sort of learning impact whatsoever and friend Jared Cooney Harvath who's a neuroscientist so his math skills are better than mine. He has this article
that he says 13 million kids have used this and there's zero impact that I'm learning right and he did the same thing in a smarter way than I did or at least a flashier way that I did and he finds the same thing that like and so the reason that we use it is we say that we need a universal screener. So what the
argument is that there's one baseline that's used across the city which is I already and we can check in with kids three times a year and we can measure how they grow. So that's the argument for why we use it. But the problem is that it's a it's the algorithm is a black box and so there are cities and
principles and municipalities that have sued to say what is the algorithm like what questions are your kids asking right and uh curriculum associates won't tell you. So all it is is this like blackbox approximation of what second grade should be. But in our SLT meetings
every single month they're like well okay I mean this is what we say. We're like well of course they're behind grade level on this BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T TAUGHT it yet. Like it's testing kids on things that they haven't taught yet. So of course we're behind level but this is the thing that the district says shows us how kids are progressing but it's all
a fiction. Like it's just it's just >> and it's also it's keeping it to district 75 or a district 75 teacher and it's so cruel to have to sit with my students >> and it's a waste of time where I could be using instructing them on what they
actually needed. So I'm very upset too. They're like >> add on to that. It's also not a universal speaker not meant to be given to >> right the fact give it to students is crazy. >> Correct. Um, but I do want to make a point because I do feel like we're all
talking about AI technology and how it got in the classroom. And for me, I have three children and two of them are struggling and one I just got an IEP for possibly dyslexic, but you know, they won't let us get a neurosych yet. We have to show data and then another one
who's just because of HMH didn't really learn how to read. So, he's behind not on grade level. He's an average student. So for me the technology and I had to try to think here well how did computers get into the class of code right how did we start using it more we're trying to
close the learning gap how did AI we could do that with AI right this is all interrelated and now I could attest to this I am your data I have a third grader and a second grader my third grader is did not learn how to read in school anything he has learned has mostly come from homework at home that
they do not go over in school because there's no time and now we've had to retach everything at home. I can't get him to read more because the HMH he's constantly exposed to is above his grade level and not engaging. Comprehension skills are fine
thankfully, but yes, I can't get him to read on grade level. I opted him out of the state test as I went to the CC meeting and told parents, you have every right to send that message to the state to opt your kids out of the state test that is on a computer. I also had to
teach fourth graders today right before their state test how to draw angles on a computer. Kids who have not even learned how to properly draw angles or don't we don't teach writing anymore FYI how to properly draw lines straight lines on paper and now we're asking them to
assess their knowledge on a computer. >> Yes. >> And I had to tell my student my I tried to opt out of writables. No, that's the platform they're using. And then I asked the school this is where we left off. Show me on the in the DOE guidelines policies that you need to learn how to
type to assess my child's knowledge. >> Typing is not part of the core curriculum. >> Let me wrap that a writable. I said my kids were not going to type in a radical. >> Your principal is very kind. >> My principal is very kind. I principal right here.
>> But like I I mean I will tell you and we we'll talk. So like let's talk. >> Well, yeah. Let's get But I didn't Yeah. Go ahead. and then we'll go to the next steps. That's where we're getting. >> I know. Sorry. Sorry. >> And then then Dory and I have like lost
our minds. >> We're still missing something here. We're not closing the gap. And the city doesn't want you to know that. You're the AI block now to distract you from what are they actually doing to close this learning gap because I have a child that now the aunt still told me to go
get a tutor. >> Right. Right. >> Who's paying for it? >> Right. >> Right. That's not the answer. Where is the support? Oh, we're rigor. Well, rigor is no good when you have no support. Let's hear next. >> So, I do feel like we need to close this
learning gap and not and get the computers out, but also focus on how are we actually doing this effectively. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. And like Yes, 100%. So, here are things that we think that you can do. The first thing we think you should do is go back into your schools and talk to other parents. like invite people to
have coffee with you like talk to people at PTO meetings like you know blow up your group chat a little bit like see and not everybody's going to be on your team but like our new friend Craig who's in district 14 we met him through this organizing board he has a group chat of
a hundred angry parents at his school uh which is which is amazing and so like he's like sending them into the world to make good trouble right and so the other thing that we think that you should do which is something that we've done here is like ask your teachers and principles
how screens and tech and AI are showing up right you have even if this the city doesn't think you have the right to do this you have a right as a parent to know when your kids are interacting with screens right like you have the right to say I want a teacher reading to my kid not >> can I add on to that
>> yeah so I mean at the last meeting that predto Dr. Predto had with parent leaders and principles. He touched upon the SLT as the platform to begin having these conversations >> and I mean you said a whole bunch of things right and you're concerned about
and I hear you and I feel it >> but I think that to start somewhere in a place that you can share like put everything on the table and tackle things one by one. >> Yeah. You can't you can't
what I'm saying is like you know like we have >> we do >> and we go issue by issue and we come to consensus yeah >> of like what changes can we make immediately what can we make in a few weeks and what can we make long term in our school
>> I will say that our slt >> is a much higher functioning slt that I think in the district need to be >> it can improve in other places it can yeah majority of principles I mean I assume like >> principles hang out sometimes
But tell us the principal chat like >> district are open to feedback and open to like >> I would hope greater transparency or >> vibes are like >> for everyone. >> Yeah. I do think so. What I will say for that and this is I I mean and I
experienced that at the H.M.H. This goes back to the um governance structures like we are as parents you are to a certain extent disempowered and the SLT is to a certain extent a false >> body because you're sitting there to air concerns but there's power
differentials. You don't have the power as a parent and that's where I do think like essentially making noise as your leverage does matter. And I mean that's how we sort of won the S HMH fight. So anyone where you don't have the
cooperation sort of of this school leader like you could form your own committee at the school and start getting parents organized on your own to orchestrate a a more a bigger push back. um and that time of year to get elected
to SLTs and PTAs. And like in my school, not too many people run for those positions. And so it's sort of easy to become a voice in conversations. And I know that's not possible in every school, but like one of the things, you know, I I'll
tell you that like, you know, Miss Portella and I have spent a lot of time talking about a lot of things, right? We do. We like great conversations >> and we have great conversations and one of the things that's like really helped me is that I tend to be a little bit adversarial towards positions of
authority and like it's helped me realize that like um like she like I I know that not all principles are created equal and I know this is for parent organizing and not talking about principles but like you know Josephine is an educator and she
had like a pedagogy that established this school that was deeply thought through and so by being and I think that like you know I'll I'll say this I don't know if this is true I think that by being sort of a an opinionated parent I've given her some cover to make changes right to be like the parent
community is saying their kids should read books the parent community is saying this and so by being loud it can provide the ability for your principles and APS to go into other rooms and say like this is what our parents are demanding right and so organizing can
also have that impact too. Um, which is how we can advocate for you, right? Like so Michelle comes to our CEC meetings and then we can go to Prao and we can say like this is what parents are telling us, right? But we can't say that if we're not hearing from angry parents. And so we don't have real power, but
your principles have real power. And so the more you can be voices in their ear, the more it gives them sort of the political cover they might need to advocate for you. >> Um, did you want to go to the next slide? We had some also districtwide um
>> which I think most of the folks here know. I mean most >> do you want to give your pitch for coming to CC? >> Just just say it. Say one sentence. >> Come to the CC meeting. >> Yeah. John would love for you to come to CC. >> It is important and like so you know Michelle you like every time even if
there's one or two parents in the chat, one or two parents who say something that does create a narrative and the DOE by the way is always there pushing their narrative. So any So it's like in organizing it's a counter story. You're creating another narrative. So anybody
you talk to, any parent, they're mad about something, it takes five minutes, go sign up to speak, you can show up online and say the thing because again that gives us more um data basically to say like this is what parents are
saying. Of course you can, you know, continue ask the superintendent. I want to know how many screens are kids using. All your parents that are from other schools, talk to them. That's the number one thing. I don't know if you'd add anything to districtwide. Kelly,
>> the only thing I will say about so few parents speak at CEC meetings that when they do speak, I think it has the real disproportionate effect on changing what the conversation is. Uh, and I don't think that you should underestimate how much that matters. So like my son Cyrus, he's the one who was
like they took away my books. And he asked to speak at CEC meetings. And so I would drive him to CC meetings and like he would get up and he would be like I had books last year. I don't have books this year. Why did HBH take away my books? And then after he went to his second CC meeting,
Krato emailed Josephine and was like, can I talk to her? And so like we had a meeting that it was me and Miss Forella and our PTO president and uh Lucia from who's now the deputy superintendent and then uh Dr. Po and he was like Kelly
Cyrus doesn't need to come to CC meetings anymore. I'll give you my cell phone number. He could just call me. He could tell me anytime he's concerned, right? And I was like Dr. We both know that you wouldn't be sitting here if Cyrus was calling you instead of having this 10-year-old showing up at CC meetings talking about
how they took away books, right? So, it was my kid doing four minutes of speeches that really change like got into the superintendent's head about that, right? In a way that like I will say made like a world of difference
at my school. like four hundreds and hundreds of kids here now read books every day which they should have been doing anyway but like we really like you guys worked so hard to like contort HMH to let there be books in every classroom again which you shouldn't have had to do
but you did it in part because like my kid went to CC meetings and so you don't have to bring your kids to meetings but I will say that like we we had these kids that came and did like testified because they need omni cards and all of us were just like look at these these amazing kids. We loved them so much. We
voted on the resolution the next time. And so really in terms our CEC like John is so great about like making it an open platform and wanting parents to come like come tell us how you're mad, bring your kids and then go and it really makes a big difference.
>> And then do you want to do citywide as well? >> Let's do I think we have one more slide Kevin for citywide. Yeah. >> Okay. So, uh, the PEP seems really scary. It is really quite a journey.
There are two more PEP meetings. One's in Staten Island and ones in, um, Brooklyn, actually. And, uh, it's worth it is like a journey, but it is worth like testifying at one PEP because they need to hear that you're mad, right? And
like and also pet members really really really count how many emails they get. Every time I email them and then I talk to a pet member they tell me how many emails they got about that subject. And so one of the most powerful things you can do is email your pep email the pep and if you need their email addresses I
have all of them to you. >> And one of the resources we'll share at the end I think it has right it has all that stuff. Okay. Um, the second thing that we would love for you to do is submit feedback on the guidance if you haven't already done that. Um, it's that
little postage stamp box and the and the thing that I have at the end also has a link to that. Um, the other thing that you can do and we have flyers here that one of the parents made that you can take and give out to your communities and on May 5th there's going to be an organizing call for parents across the
city to talk about uh funding that you can do in your specific communities and we would love for you to join that. And like the last time we had one of these calls, it was really fun. I don't know if any of you were on it, but it was like everybody's really excited about the idea of getting parents involved
around these things. I mean, I think the nice thing about, you know, I keep talking I keep saying that like AI is my least favorite thing in the world and all I do is talk about it, but the reality is that like what it's been able to get me to do is like make connections and talk to people and talk to them in
person and do all these things. And so, um, joining the organizing call, I think, is a nice way to sort of get ideas about what you can do in your community and also to realize that you're not alone, that you're not the only people who are worried about it. Um, and then the last thing that I think
you should do is share your concerns with DOE officials. Like, you know, they should know that this process isn't they should know. So from your areas of expertise, like as somebody that works with AI every day, what you're doing is
not right. Right? Like they like the way that you shouldn't send my email. You should send the emails that you sort of wrote in this room out loud. Like that should be what your feedback is because all of the things that you just said in this room tonight are things that
they're not thinking about right now and they should be. And so, uh, sharing your concerns with DOE officials can be really powerful. >> And there's this slide with so, >> oh, great. Yes, this is important. We have to figure out how to get here. Um,
so >> yeah, we will Kevin, did all of you RSVP to this? Okay, we need to figure out a way to send all of you the slides. >> I mean, I can get it to the >> So, before you leave, we'll just make sure that we know how to do that. on here are some things that might be
useful to you as you're organizing. One is um a literacy reading list. So, at the at the district 20 town hall, which is one of my favorite moments of the year, uh Dr. Pate um
asked me, she was like, "Oh, you've been doing some reading. What have you been reading?" And so, I put together a reading list for her of the research, most current research on AI. >> It's very comprehensive. >> It's very comprehensive. It It's useful. Yeah. >> Um and so >> there are studies too about um
tech guidance like that help make like an actual adoption where you're not just like not critical thinking. I think Harvard girl did study that I didn't read. Um >> I think all of the ones about education have been retracted. I think that
there's nothing about there's as far as I know there's nothing about AI being done well in an education setting that hasn't been retracted. >> I think that it does I think it's the tooth fairy. I think it unfortunately doesn't exist. Um
>> the also linked up here is uh our district 20 resolution that we passed if you want to read that. um the FAQ about IRA which has a summary of a slightly older article about why I is terrible and then also the link to the news article I terrible and then a link to
the DOE's feedback form as well. Um and so we can just make sure that everybody in this room can get a a copy of these and then everybody online has these. Um and then so there's one question in the chat about teachers who retaliate against parents who want less AI. I
think that if you're retaliated against, you should immediately tell the CEC and we will do everything in our power to uh represent you as a parent. Like uh your ch So one of the So I'll tell you like very candidly that the things that I've opted out my children from this year, I
opted them out of AI. I opted them out of uh HMH that children horses AI and I opted them out of I Ready. The only one that I was told initially that I couldn't do was the I Ready screeners and I said I was going to do it anyway. But the conversation that I had with Dr.
P, which I have on email about opting them out of Writeable, I said my kids will just get zeros. I don't care like I mean and like I just I don't I mean the I don't care about grades in general. I don't I certainly don't care about like performative like
filthy AI for the sake of getting grades. and he said to me in writing, "Your children will receive an equal education, whether it's on whether it's on the HMH platform or not." And I take him at his word by that. So, if somebody's retaliating against your kid, your kid being denied the right to an
equal education, that is not legal. And um if you tell me about it, I will do my very best to figure out how to make sure that that is something that does >> I'm curious if you opted out of the writable online, what are they doing in the classroom?
So they make exceptions and they have them do a handwritten version of it um or on Google Docs. Yeah. So Writable is the platforming in we're not using any of the other things anyway. So like
>> the um the edible tools, what are they called? The Grammar and all that stuff revision a we don't use schoolwide. We made a decision to turn that portion off so we don't use it. And so for us um teachers are even given the option like
they can use the writable platform or they can just use the Google docs. Most of our teachers use the Google docs anyway. So we've again these are topics that have been brought up at SLT and like that's where we start like we kind of like what Kellyy's saying like she'll
bring something to my attention and then I'll go and like do like a checks and balances. I'll go in and look at rooms. So is this really true or let's see how we can make it better. And so as a school we kind of revisit that and at SLT the beauty of SLT is there's the uft
chapter leader there are other teachers and so together we kind of like share what's happening in the classroom. We we take into consideration what the parents are saying and what they're noticing what's happening at home what the kids are saying when they go home. And so we
go back and we revisit what we're our practice and we're constantly revisiting and trying to be better as a school. >> So your teachers have the autonomy to use Google Docs instead of the >> So we've made a decision because of everything that's happening, right? This
is all hot off the press what you guys are saying. So we're all learning together, right? So we didn't really understand that that H&M had all these AI tools and right, you need to go and like kind of shut them off. You don't want your school to use. Yes, we asked our teachers, our teachers are new at
the whole HMH curriculum, right? And this whole writable. So when they were they they shared with us that yes, we feel more comfortable with our Google docs because that's what we've been using. And so as a school, we were like, okay, let's just continue in this way. If you want to try writable, we are going in that in that way as well. But
we're going to shut any AI generated tools offered to students in our school. And that's what we've been doing. We work with our computer science specialists. I mean, we're constantly like working together to make sure like we're all on the same page. >> Do you have a computer teacher that teaches writing?
>> So, I do we do have a media literacy specialist and um she used to have her own lab and now she kind of pushes into the classroom and what she's she's working with our teachers to kind of make the HMH come to life to do some of that inquiry work and to kind of teach
them media literacy skills in conjunction with what they're learning in the classroom. So it's not so isolated. >> So your teachers don't have to teach just write the email direct core instruction. >> Oh yeah. Do you have the emails? >> I mean I >> No.
>> Yeah. The lit the Yeah. The computer teacher is the person that kind of teaches the school. >> Yeah. But I don't think we have anybody. My kids I don't think have learned. >> Yeah. No one. >> Mario teaches typing which is what I use. >> Yeah.
So practically for a parent whose kid is not a a school principal is here. Um >> what what are sort of the steps to like just just opting out? Okay, teacher I don't want to sign up for a login or >> so I think it depends on so the first
thing that I would do is just find out what the landscape is because well once you know what the landscape is you know what it is that you're opting out of. So, I would find out and I would also like have conversations with yourself and your spouse and whoever about like what your boundaries are because I think
that some people are super worried about screens and some people are super worried about AI and some people are super worried about engagement prolonging and some people you know so I think that the question just is like what and why are you opting out of things and I've tried to be really clear
about that like I'm not personally opting out of universal screeners if you want to give my kid a universal screen or on paper, that's fine. I'm opting out of things that train AI without my kids consent because they're too young to do that. And I'm opting out of things that are engagement prolonging because I
think that that screws up kids brains. And those are the things. So, I've been trying I've tried to like very purposely not be reactionary. I know that people don't believe that about me, but I have tried to like think very carefully and then put in writing very carefully like what I'm asking for and why. So I think
that for example one question you can ask is is this a school that has a one-toone device and if it is can you opt out of it being of your child having a onetoone device and there are class action lawsuits that are happening right now about like the negative impact of
onetoone devices on kids particularly neurode divergent kids particularly kids with ADHD um which is again things we didn't know three years ago right like there's new research and as we know better as adults we could do better so that's the first thing I would ask is like how what kind of screens are there?
The second thing I would find out is um what are the edtech platforms and it it really varies and like like uh there's a school in district 22 that uses like the salad
>> it is just like a vendor field day like if you are selling something that is going to find kids data that school is on top of it and then our school the list is very small right and so I would find out like what are they using and why and Like some of you might want to opt out of like a lot of that tech stuff
for me. I told you what my standards are but yours are different maybe. Right. And then you know one of the things that I feel really strongly like we don't do I Ready at home. We don't do I Ready sprints. When I is happening in the classroom I want my kids reading books
instead. Like that's sort of been the thing that I do but that might not be the thing you do. And so I would start out just by like having a conversation about what's showing up what are you worried about? What are they doing? how much time explaining what your concerns are. Um, the other thing that's a big
issue right now is like uh giving there was a first grader at the PEP meeting last night who showed up and she was like, "Mr. Chancellor, during recess every day we're watching YouTube. Is it possible that we could go outside and play with blocks sometimes instead of being at YouTube?" And like even the
chancellor was at the school and so uh finding out about YouTube. There are a lot of parents right now, Matt, about brain breaks and those being on screens. Find out about you can ask about those. Like um uh what happens during indoor recess? Like that was a conversation we
had because like >> kids were being shown movies during indoor recess and I felt pretty strongly that I wanted my kid like not doing that, not like watching a movie during indoor recess. And then we had a conversation about it and then now they they're not on screens. And so I do think that a lot of this is just a
matter of like >> being like what's going on. And then and so the other thing I'll just say really quickly about opting out is like my I talked to a lot of parents about opting out and they say I asked for
permission and they said no. And I will say I have never asked for permission to opt out of anything. I have said I my children will not be doing this anymore. >> Here's why. And then sometimes people
say to me, I'll ask if that's okay. And I'm like, you could have a conversation with anybody you want, but this is what my family will be doing. And then I have written an email to our superintendent that says no is a complete sentence, right? Like I've literally told like I mean that like my stance and then I
wrote I mean I I'll show you these emails like I wrote him an email. this fortellus copied on it where I said, "Please explain the strategy you're going to use to coers a six-year-old and 8-year-old to do something that's without their parents consent that they don't want to do." And like, he never
wrote back to that. And like the reality is that, you know, you can't ask for tools of liberation from the from the structure. And so my strategy has always been I will think really carefully about what
I'm doing and then I will say what my family is doing. I will not ask for permission. >> You that I mean that was my question. They said no. >> I say >> this wasn't >> like I I mean I just I say I am withdrawing my consent for doing this.
>> Yeah. >> No. >> I think it's it's tough when you don't have a principal who's or a teacher. I won't say like we don't we're not meant for like being sort of perceptive like even from Fredo. >> Yeah. I mean >> I also think that's where there's
strength in numbers. So I'll tell you that like in district 15 they were told you can't opt out of I already like you can't op out of I already and then 15 parents all said they were opting out of I already and now the whole district out of right >> 15 is a number that all of you know 15
people all of you have 15 people's numbers and so >> like what a rebellion looks like is pretty small in real numbers >> and like >> I um I also think it's why you choose your battles right I think it's why you
>> draw a line and then prepare to hold it. >> Yeah. >> So, I think that's a good note to close on. I think the other thing I'll just say is like parents are winning. Parents are winning. So, if you have not read the thing about LA,
>> read it. It's inspiring and it's a bunch of parents who are like, "We don't want this for our kids." Um, and as Kelly said before, I think the narrative and the conversation is changing. Um, and hopefully we all can be on the front of that. Um,
>> so, >> and Natasha Singer, who is the tech journalist for the New York Times, who had written columns about Ed Tech was coming to save everybody for years and years and years, has changed her total tune and she just wrote an article the other day all about the trouble all of
you are making and it says like parent backlash is winning in edtech, right? And Natasha Ziger has totally changed her tune and um and the New York Times saying that the parents are winning the backlash against edtech I think shows you that you're on the right side of it, right? Like even if it's not easy in
your school, one of the things you can say like tell them is they're just on the wrong side of this. And so >> yeah, >> and it has popular appeal too, I think, crossing lots of different sort of both political demographic boundaries. Um, so
on that note, we do want to make sure when we close we get everybody's email so we can share this was put in the chat for those folks who are online, but for people who are here um because there's a lot of good resources here and we're also Kelly and I are in a um chat group if any of you are interested in joining.
It's a very active chat on some of these topics. So we can add you to that. It's a >> flyers in English and in Spanish if you would like a flyer. Um, and thank you guys so much for being there. Yes. Thank you. >> Thank you. Fun. >> So fun. It's so great.
>> Thank you to everybody who's online. We'll sign off there. And please do not leave unless we have your email if you want to get more information. So yes, >> some cookies. >> Yes. And cookies. >> Cookies and bagels.