everybody for joining us tonight. This is the academic affairs committee meeting of the district 2 community education council and my name is Allison Bowen. I co-chair the committee along with Daniela Edgaroth and we are joined tonight I'm just looking around to see
who I see from our committee um by Sam Low who is on our committee and we should also be joined by Ethan Quac who is the student member of our committee and D2CE President Craig Slutskin.
And I think that wraps it up for the committee who's on tonight. Um we're also going to be joined later by Superintendent Kelly Magcguire and um we have our invited guest on Brandon Wright who you'll hear from shortly.
So the plan for the meeting tonight um on a quick run of show is that we're going to talk about the math path initiative to bring more rigorous math instruction to our elementary and middle schools in district 2. Then we're going to talk about the region's geometry pilot program at Lab Middle School this
year, the 2526 school year. and the opportunity that we have to expand that program to other middle schools in the district for next year. Um, then we'll talk about what you can do as a parent if this is if this is of interest to you or the school your child attends now or
will be attending in the fall. And we will hear from our invited guest, Brandon Wright, and then open it up to questions first from the committee and then to the public. And it looks like um Tam Reed, who is the final member of our academic affairs committee, has joined the call.
>> Hi everybody. >> So, thank you all. Um we plan to wrap it up by 8:00. So, I will jump right in and start talking about the math path initiative.
Some of you may be familiar with resolution 252 which was passed during the last term of the community education council which called for advanced academic instructions particularly accelerated math instruction in our
elementary and middle schools. Um I think many of you know that there is limited or no options for accelerated math if your child is not in one of our gifted and talented programs. And as a result, a lot of families send their kids for outside math instruction
outside the New York City public schools to Kuman or Mathnasium or the Russian School of Math or private tutors. And this is creating a real equity gap based on famil family's ability to pay for and afford these programs.
So when students don't have access to this advanced curriculum in elementary school and middle school, they actually cannot access the highest level of math offered at many of our New York City
public schools. If you don't enter high school having algebra and geometry, you cannot reach because math is sequential, calculus, BC, linear algebra, and some of the more advanced courses that are now table stakes if people want to go to
research one universities and be an engineering or STEM major. And what happens is our public school students aren't prepared, but kids coming in who are taking outside math are. And so it's creating this real
equity gap and an equity gap in knowledge as well because middle school parents, if they're not offered these courses, don't know that they should be trying to find them for their students to reach these higher level of math um courses in high school.
So our goal with the math path is to provide some of that foundation starting in upper elementary school grades and through middle school so that students who are ready have access to advanced and accelerated math. As part of that
um we have the geometry pilot program which I'm going to speak briefly about now and that gives you the context for why this is so important for middle schools. Okay. So, this year, Lab Middle School um
offered regent level geometry to a group of seventh and eighth graders. In addition to the pre-alggebra that seventh graders are taking and the regent algebra 1 that eighth graders are taking. Um you may know that algebra 1 is offered now at all district 2 middle
schools. So, Principal Adams partnered with the New York City public schools iLearn platform, which is a virtual platform for virtual learning. Um, so this is a Zoom class, a Zoom geometry class that's
taking place at zero period, which means before school begins. Um, for the iLearn platform, which many of you probably are not familiar with, this is all certified New York City teachers. Uh, it has many different classes. It be sometimes used for credit
recovery for kids who have to make up a class, but it can also be used for acceleration like in this case. And I really am going to applaud Principal Adams here for setting this up because she's given students um a great opportunity
because there's a low barrier for children right now who are trying this class. um it was offered and if children it's not working for them, they actually have an opportunity to drop the class so they can try it out, see if it was right for them without the pressure of
committing to it. And um the other thing for seventh graders, if any of you have seventh graders or are thinking about what the rubric looks like for being a tier one student for admissions to high school, um the only the higher of the
two math grades for seventh graders count toward that tier one um GPA or tier 2 GPA for uh high school admissions. I think that's important to know. And um
there's been a lot of benefits here in terms of getting credit for passing the regions. Um eighth graders get credit for the regions test if they take it as well as the class and seventh graders um get credit for the regent's exam if but not the class. So that's an interesting
distinction. But then by having these they get to access um higher math as soon as they get into high school. Um, Principal Adams has been very positive on the pilot program and um, she and Superintendent Maguire
met with the other principles of middle schools in district 2 on March 17th um, to discuss the program and gauge interest of other principles in having this program at their school next year. Uh for me, this seems to be um kind of a
no-brainer to offer for students in the screen programs that are four zoned middle schools who are already selected based on um their academic performance at the end of high school. So that's Wagner, Baroo, Sunaten, and Morton
Street. Um, I also think there may be interest from parents whose children are attending SulkQ or East Side Middle um, previously zoned schools or other schools in the district. And because this is a remote class, what we'd really like to see is if some of the bigger
schools like a Baroo or a Wagner offer this um, with a minimum number of students per class that they can open it up. So, if there's only a handful of kids at Morton Street or there's kids at 276 or 289, uh, but there's only a few in those schools that they could
actually virtually join a class that was put together by one of the larger schools in order to have as many students as possible have access to this. So, in terms of next steps as parents, um if you're interested in seeing a
program like this at your school, it would be to talk to your principal. They've all heard that this is an option. So, between now and the next meeting of the superintendent and the principles, knock on their door, send an email, pick up the phone, talk to them
in the yard. also reach out to your school leadership team uh or your PA depending on how involved different people are getting in the academic affairs of the school. And of course when Kelly gets on um please ask him
questions as well. So what I'd like to do next is I would like to um introduce our speaker and then after we hear from our speaker we will open it up to the discussion. Uh Brandon Brandon Wright is the
editorial director of the Thomas B. Form Institute which promotes educational excellence for students across the United States. Um education for high achievers is one of the focal points of his think think tank and Brandon's role includes being the editor of advance forom substack that focuses on this
research. He's the author of multiple books on education, including Failing Our Brightest Kids: The Global Challenge of Educating High Ability Students. So, I'd like to thank you for joining us and turn it over to Daniela. >> Thank you, Allison. Thank you, Brandon,
for joining us and thank you for all the parents who are here. Um so the first question that I want to ask Brandon is can you share some of the re recent research on the importance of accelerated classes uh in middle school
particularly math that you have found uh given all the work that you have done in this area. >> Sure. Um and hi uh good to be here. Um yeah, I've been in education policy for a long time and often, you know, for any
given intervention when you talk about the evidence behind it, it can be a little complicated because, you know, the evidence is, you know, partial or, you know, conflicting. Um what's interesting about this question
is this isn't one of those areas. Um the evidence here is extremely clear, like weirdly clear. Um and the evidence shows that uh the type of intervention that you're talking about here is essentially a form
of acceleration and grouping by achievement. And those two interventions have a ton of evidence that demonstrate um how much they they benefit kids who are accelerated in group by achievement. But what's interesting about
about uh the evidence that shows those benefits is that that same evidence that same evidence shows that these interventions do not harm their peers who who aren't accelerated and don't harm their peers who who
aren't grouped by achievement with these sort of um accelerated kids. It also finds that the type of student who gets the greatest benefit from these interventions are underserved kids. Um
so to sort of put that in one sentence, uh acceleration and grouping by achievement have overwhelming evidence for um the benefits that they have to participating students achievement. These interventions do not harm the
peers who aren't giving these interventions because they aren't ready for them yet. Um, and the students who benefit the most tend to be the underserved kids that those of us who talk about equity care the most about. So, um, Allison said this was a
no-brainer, I think, and I think that's that's that's exactly spot on. And I wouldn't say that about about a uh about a lot of education policies, but again on this particular issue, the evidence is again overwhelmingly clear um that that there's really no reason not to do
this. >> Thank you. And uh I know you have written a lot about that on your Substack advance and so I have learned a lot from your Substack and so I would highly encourage any other parent who wants to learn more to to go to his Substack advance because you can find a
lot of the research that he's referring here. Um one other question you are you work with uh you know uh recommending policies for districts. So what are recommendation in terms of school districts to implement these advanced or accelerated math options for middle
schoolers? If you have like three or four things that you tell districts, can you please share with us? >> Yeah, sure. So, um I think the sort of best practices go about this in a few ways. One is to use a test that all students already take, right? So, you aren't
adding any new exam. You aren't adding any new tests. Um we call this universal screening. Um this means that no parents have to opt in. um nobody really has an advantage um
and it tends to um reduce the bias as much as possible that can exist in these programs. Um admittedly uh another way to go about it um another best practice is to subscribe to what we call uh local norms, right?
So you would do this sort of by school as opposed to, you know, by school district. You know, you take a place like Manhattan or something and if you, you know, tried to group by test score and you tried to source from everywhere,
right? and you took really affluent schools and really um you know and then sourced the same uh programs from you know title one schools and things like that. What you would find is that the odds would be unfairly stacked against
the um underserved kids that again we're trying to benefit when we talk about uh equity. So instead you can create these programs in individual schools and that again can reduce uh the bias and the exclusion that some of these programs have historically due to poor design um
had when it comes to underserved uh children. Um another way to go about it um and this kind of builds off of the uh the universal screening aspect of it is to do automatic enrollment. So essentially you would say you know for example and there's there's different
ways that that that districts and schools can do this but right like at you know test score X every kid above that in say math you know gets put into this accelerated course and to not take that course you actually
have to opt out as opposed to opting in. Um again uh what we find is that that tends to again reduce um the bias and the exclusion that some of these programs again due to poor design have
uh historically um had for underserved kids. So right if you combine sort of those those three things um uh I guess I would add two more. Um there's also evidence that uh sort of highquality
um curriculum um in in these programs uh really um sort of maximizes the benefits of these programs. Um there can be versions of these right where you just you know group students by achievement but then you aren't really doing anything different for them and that's a
waste and um doesn't really benefit anyone. Uh and then schools and districts should really hold these programs accountable um for doing all of these things that I just uh described, right? So they shouldn't just be like,
you know, rules that aren't implemented well and aren't um and for which you know schools and districts aren't held held accountable. Uh so essentially I guess that's what five six things. Um when programs are are are designed in
these ways and do these things uh that's when you really see the benefit that I talked about when I talked about the um the evidence backing for these interventions. >> Great. Thank you. Um what are some of the the benefits or reasons that you see
for implementing um these advanced classes? And you can just talk about like the individual student level but also like in terms of a city or a school district. >> Sure. Yeah. So earlier right I kind of talked about you know quantitative uh reasons for doing these things. I think
there are also legitimate qualitative reasons for doing them. One I think is just simple fairness. Uh I think we owe it to every child in our country to do what we can to maximize um their achievement in school. And I think that's especially true for um the
underserved kids that that I mentioned so many times. Um a number of kids who would participate in in these classes and programs if they existed are these underserved kids. Um and they're the same kids who have uh less ability to sort of go outside the school district
and get these um get this sort of instruction anyway. Um which Allison talked about uh earlier. um the students who are most able to do that are you know the sort of privileged um uh affluent students uh with means. Um, so
in a sense by by by precluding programs like this from being available to students in your district, uh, you were being, you know, deeply unfair to a number of students, including a number of underserved students and they're the ones you're
harming the most because the the the affluent uh, you know, sort of privileged families find a way to get around this anyway. Um the the other argument that uh some people care about um is that when you maximize the
education of as many kids as possible in a school district or a state or a country, right? um you're you're sort of um you're doing your best to feed and facilitate sort of a healthy economy and
a competitive country in a in a very you know competitive global environment. um this argument won't resonate with with with everyone um but uh but for those that it does I think it is a legitimate point right um uh when you look at a
number of our competitor countries uh China for example they are doing everything they can in their urban centers to absolutely maximize the achievement of their high
achieving kids um and uh and yeah so again for whom an argument like this would resonate I think that's another sort of qualitative argument for why these programs can be important >> yeah as as a parent who has paid for the
outside math acceleration for my kids it is extremely expensive Manhattan and it keeps growing like um I think the most famous one is Russian school of math and they keep growing because there's so much appetite for this but as you said unfortunately it's only people who have
the resources who then can provide this if it's not being provided by the public schools. Um okay. Uh last question that I have is um we often hear that grouping uh students you know by readness level into single classrooms uh works as well
as advanced programs that group um putting all the students you know in one class by then is it works as well as getting students by level uh in math. Um, can you speak to that specifically because I think this is might be one of
the things that are more difficult and I actually talked to a parent who was like, I don't want this because I don't think my kids's going to be at the top class. And I shared that, you know, my son when he went to middle school that does that and he was not at the top math class, but he learned so much more uh because there was that differentiation,
right? He was getting exactly the math at the level that he needed. So uh that's my personal experience but if you probably have research and data to share about that. >> Sure. Yeah. Um this is something that I've looked at sort of over my uh career here too and essentially no highquality
research shows that this sort of you know fully heterogeneous differentiation can work at scale um for the you know very wide range of achievement um that's present in sort of the average American uh classroom. and a number of uh studies
show that it doesn't work. Um there's sort of two reasons that suggest why it doesn't work. Uh I mentioned that the average American classroom can have a wide range of achievement. And when I say wide, I mean very very wide. Um a study for in in 2022, for example,
found that the average classroom has uh a span between three and seven grade levels in it. So imagine tasking a teacher with trying to uh do justice to instructing kids across
three to seven grade levels in math. Um extremely extremely hard. Uh you know some of our best teachers I'm sure can do it. Um but it's very very hard. And uh because it's so hard that's why these
uh these analyses show that it doesn't work at scale. The other reason why it tends to not work is uh the research shows that that teachers essentially don't do it. Um largely uh presumably because it's so hard. Um like um another
study out of the University of Virginia um tried to measure the effects of this sort of heterogeneous differentiation and they concluded that they couldn't study the effects because not enough teachers were actually doing it. Um, so it's very hard. The the the the range of
achievement in an average classroom is extremely wide. Um, and presumably because of that, teachers just don't do it. So um because of these things although differentiation in any given class is sort of an an important skill
for teachers to do and it's sort of an important uh element in any sort of continuum of of of interventions that any school or district should have for students. when relied on by itself,
when relied on in a way that precludes the sort of um acceleration and achievement grouping that we've already talked about, it just doesn't work um is what the research shows. And one follow-up question when you say that like the teachers um it's almost
impossible to differentiate seven grade levels they tend uh what I have I've read that teachers tend to teach to the average student and then you know the students who are uh who might needs um more background and attention or the ones who are ahead who are bored are the
ones who actually then kind of you know don't have that that education with what they need right it's usually then just the average student that is getting um that getting like the the instruction that the teachers are providing when you have so much so much uh diversity in the
level. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I I think that's right. It would it would be either sort of the average or the average and sort of the lower achieving um kids at the time because you mentioned right that that um they need a lot more help um at the
moment um and they deserve a lot of help uh and uh um and so like you mentioned a lot of the the higher achieving kids again a subset of which are underserved kids um are left essentially um
neglected in these classrooms. Uh and that's a very big problem. Um and that's another reason why uh districts and schools should offer these accelerated achievement grouped um opportunities for these kids who are ready for them at the
time. >> Thank you, Allison. Back to you now for the Q&A. >> Thanks. Okay, that's terrific. Um, what I'd like to do is I'd like to ask any of our committee members who are on
the call tonight. Um, and Sam, you have your camera on. Why don't I start with you to see if you have any questions regarding um, the geometry program or for Brandon about the research that's being done at the form institute? >> Sure. Hey, thank you very much. Um,
thanks for being a guest on the call today, Brandon, and for the information you've shared. Um so you talked about how um having this math path would actually
help uh underserved communities and help identify um you know high achieving students through you know the different means of universal opt-in testing. Um
is is there a way that I mean so is it costlier to go this path um to implement like with illustrative
math the curriculum is it is it adaptable to to work in this way? Um, and would it be costly if we if we don't actually adopt it? So, you know, in terms of if uh
families choose to leave the system, I mean, does does your have you have you looked into into this sort of thing? because you know one of the concerns is whether or not the academic rigor is being met for a lot of the families and
some of the some of the data that I came across recently seems to suggest families have been leaving the system so is it you know is there like a cost to not implementing >> yeah it's it's it's hard for me to answer that uh with like in the context
of the specific program that you're talking about in your specific district um very hard. I uh so I wouldn't pretend to to know the answer to that specifically. I can speak to I guess some generalities. Um I think programs
like this uh can be very cost effective um if done in the way that I described, right? Uh with the universal screening, the idea is to use a test that already exists. So you aren't adding um new testing. So you aren't adding really any new money there. Um, if you if you use
the local norms that I've talked about, placing these programs in in individual schools and sourcing them from those schools, uh, you aren't adding new buildings. You aren't you don't really have to add new teachers. Um, you might add some some professional development
and stuff like that. Um, but uh, and you aren't losing students from that school, right? Um I don't know exactly how uh schools are funded in the city but in most places in the country right it's uh
per pupil right um so done in done in these ways um I don't think these these these interventions have to be costly uh the the sort of flip side of that which seemed like like you you got at some is
if families are leaving the system because these sorts of opportunities aren't provided provided then in a sense if that's true and again I don't know the specifics of this case if families are leaving because the school isn't
providing the opportunities that parents believe that their students deserve and need then the schools would be losing that per pupil funding but they wouldn't be losing teachers or or or buildings or anything else. So they they would
essentially seems like um uh be keeping sort of the cost uh equal but then um losing the revenue. So in a sense not doing it I guess in that sense could be costly but again I'm very much speaking in uh generalities here.
>> Okay. Thank thank you. >> Thank you. Um and Sam, just to follow up on one of the things that that you said I think that's important is is district 2 has gone um in their middle schools to implementing the I Ready screener across schools. Schools had the option before
to use a bunch of different screeners to track student pro progress. Um but more recently they've standardized that across the district. So that's a very um systematic tool that can be used for implementing a program like this. In the
past, you know, it's been grades to get into the screen program. The I Ready program could be layered onto that as a way um to do just what Brandon's talking about is like anyone who meets their criteria, give them an option to get into a more advanced program.
Um, I want to ask and see if anyone else on the committee has a question, Rebecca, before I turn to you. Um, so Craig or Tam, do you have anything that would like >> I do. I had to jump to my phone. I'm so sorry. Um,
like there's lots of kids in my house. So, no, thank you for this. I'm I'm curious um to have more conversation about district 2's math path and the nuts and bolts of that. I think I would like to see how that is being rolled out
and really take a look at the pilot and see how this how lab is, you know, how they how they've done it. And I think that that is a conversation that this committee could get deeper into um instead of kind of the nuts and bolts of just you know differentiation and
ability and all of that which is a wider discussion. But with the MAP with the I Ready sorry I know some middle schools still use MAP assessments and then they use I Ready. There's a lot of problems with that screener. Um lots of problems with that screener. So kids are just
speeding through it and they're just filling out whatever. Um, and it's not indicative of like where they actually stand. I think I just worked with a student that got a fifth grade proficiency and and he's in ninth grade and is like a a stellar math student. So it's kind of all over the place. I'd be
interested to see how we're deciding who gets what and where they go and all the things. Um, but to our speaker, thank you for coming. I'm interested in in sort of where you see the cut off and like how you make this more accessible to more kids. I know that you know high
achieving can change at any second and I think like just the idea of high achieving versus low achieving is kind of setting up this conversation at least for me to be pretty divisive. So how would we you know make this accessible to to the B student to the C student
that will be a B student. Um how do you envision that happening? >> Sure. Yeah. So, so the the way that I personally sort of and professionally view what I call advanced education, I don't call it gifted. Um, and I and I don't
call it gifted because when I talk about these things, I'm personally not talking about anything inherent in any child. I'm simply talking about right at any given time who is most or who is
prepared for whatever intervention we're talking about. Um to your question how to make it as accessible as possible. I think one of those is to is to uh not make the cut off sort of you know
particularly high. Um some research shows that that that that when when students are actually challenged um that a lot more students are sort of you know capable of rising to that challenge um than systems have
assumed in the past. Um so that's right like at this moment in time. Um, but I think a better and more more complete answer to to your question, um, is to
really think about K12 education in your district with that sort of same same uh mindset, right? to uh to from a very early age challenge students a lot more than districts are
and have historically. Um what we call that in sort of advanced education is frontloading. So you know starting in kindergarten starting very early on um challenging as many kids as possible and sort of accelerating everyone um in
those early grades. Um, and what we find when you do that is, you know, by the time that you're placing kids into accelerated achievement grouped classes like we're talking about here, a lot
more students are prepared to um to succeed in them. Uh, another way that we do this are is is a couple of the sort of design elements that I talked about earlier, right? Um, the local norm part
is is a really big part of it, right? Um, you know, because schools at least in most places, you know, tend to be grouped geographically and there's a lot of, you know, socioeconomic um, homogeneity in, you know, various
geographic areas. Uh when you create these programs in individual schools, uh you you make them much more um inclusive when you look at them as a whole across uh the district than if
you're setting cuto offs based on, you know, districtwide or, you know, citywide averages, right? So that's that's another way. Um, I'm not a psycho nutrition, so I don't know um about your your uh your complaints about the the
screeners. Um uh but again if you are taking a test that people are already um being administered and you're creating again as as as inclusive cuto offs as you
possibly can um for these opportunities using uh those assessments. Then again, the research shows that that that you end up um sort of uh diversifying um these
programs much better. Um they do much better when you're looking at them from an equity standpoint. Um so uh those are ways that that that that I think any program should go about it um
if I were designing it. >> Thank you. Um, I see Ethan's on. Ethan, do you have any questions about the program or anything that you want to share from your experience um in the school system? >> Uh, sorry, not so far. Uh, right now I'm
outside, so I apologize if I'm not being able to um interact as much or get my opinion of most of the >> Sounds good. Okay, Craig, would you like to add anything to the discussion? Yeah, and I'll try to make it quick because I think there are some some members of the public that that want us want to speak
as well. >> I guess I have two two questions. One for you and one for uh Brandon. So So for for you, do you see the lab program or any of these programs morphing or evolving into where that class is in the
in the regular day? Because there's advantages to it being outside of the day. You can go out of it if you want to go out of it. if you don't think it's something you want to do anymore, it's very easy to do that. At the same time, who wants to take a class at 7 whatever in the morning. So there there's there's
balances. There's challenges or pluses and minuses on on both. So where do you see that going? And then my question for Brandon is what do you where do you see the trends nationally? Because I think a few years ago we started going on the other way where we went away from this
type of of tracking or or acceleration groups. But are you seeing the pendulum swinging to swing swing back nationally as a you know either the larger cities or the smaller cities? How do you see that? >> Sure. I'll jump in first. Um I think it
would be ideal if it were during the school day, but that would require more systemic shift to um move up the math curriculum so that you were doing essentially sixth and seventh grade math. So the two years compressed into one year in sixth grade and then either
geometry in seventh and algebra 1 in 8th or vice versa. And um I would like to see it eventually go that way, but that's a bigger lift for principles and for how they're running their schools than for doing something
right now as a bolt-on pilot to see that it's successful and then more fitting into that down the road. Thank you. >> Hey, Greg. Um, yeah, uh, you're exactly right that, you know, I'd say, you know, five, six
years ago, um, when our country, you know, really started, uh, reckoning with, you know, racial injustice that, um, that one of the things that changed was attitudes towards these programs. um largely because of you know some of the
the uh historical um exclusion of you know so many underserved kids. I feel like I've talked about that some in my answers. Um so you saw in places like Boston and New York and Chicago, San Francisco um you know uh
calls to get rid of these programs and calls that ended up being successful um at the time. Uh more recently, I think you've seen attitude soften or right um nuance sort of start to enter the
conversation and there start um seems like there's starting to be uh um places that are a little more welcoming to versions of what we're talking about. Um to be clear, they didn't go away
everywhere. um uh the places that I talked about are examples, but it's not like, you know, advanced education disappeared. Um but some of the recent success that that some people um in my
field have had uh is with things like automatic enrollment, which I talked about um earlier, right? because it's it's it's it's just this uh it's this very sort of no-brainer um intervention where again you're
taking a test that you already have and anybody that is prepared for you know um an accelerated opportunity is automatically enrolled in that. Um a lot of the places that do that tend to you know have have the cutoff be very
inclusive like I like I talked about earlier to I believe you said her name is Tam. Um so uh so yeah um I think attitudes are softening towards the idea of um these interventions. I think the research that I described is a large
part of it. Uh that that when done well um these actually benefit the very kids that we're trying to to help when we talk about equity. Um, so, uh, so yeah, I I I I think the environment is is
improving for things like this. Um, and I think that's a good thing. >> Great. Thank you. Um, and now I'd like to open it up to some questions. Rebecca, you had your hand up earlier um, in terms of questions for either myself or for Brandon. >> Yeah, thank you. Um, so Allison, I think
these are going to all be for you. I was writing them down a as you were going and I have a few questions about the math path and I just wanted to say that I have a fifth grader who needs to take geometry in middle school. So I'm heavily invested in these answers and
it's going to determine whether or not we stay in D2 for for middle school. Um so my questions are um how is the um I Ready program paid for? Is that through PTA funds or through the school? Like is
there an extra cost and how is that covered? That's my first question. >> Okay. Um and I think you're actually asking about the ilearn program. >> I learn program >> the I radio screen. And I also realized that as you were asking your question,
Superintendent Maguire um joined us on the call. So thank you for joining us, Superintendent. Um, we've just opened up the conversation to the parents on the call to talk more about the geometry program. Um, the iLearn program is
actually paid for um by the school itself. So, the middle school that is doing this program um would have to incorporate into their budget. But my understanding it's a very budget friendly program. And I don't know if uh superintendent, you could say anything
further um about the budget for incorporating this into a new middle school. >> Um yeah, thanks everybody and uh my apologies. I'm just trying to get home and get settled in. Um but yes, the the cost uh is really minimal. Um I think
less than $3,000 to run the program. Um and uh that's one of the things that's made it attractive in the district. >> Right. And that's $3,000 overall as opposed to per student. So that is >> Yeah, >> that's that's a low number if you think
that there are uh 20 kids enrolled and could be I think up to 30 um in each classroom because it's virtual. >> Do do you mind if I ask a few like one more question? Thank you. So, um just because I I think
D2 doesn't currently have any um geometry classes offered during the day. Where are these students going to take the geometry regent exam? >> I don't know the answer to that.
Maybe Liz does. Liz, do you know the answer? >> Uh hi. Um I'm Liz Storm. my child was participating in this uh program. Um we uh LA lab will lab middle school will
offer the geometry regions for those students. >> Great. And and I actually have one more. It's okay. um if if the school that so first and I also want to just say that parents who are extremely interested, students
who are extremely interested are going to take that 7 a.m. class, like that isn't going to be an issue for people who really want this. Um so say a middle school isn't going to be offering it, isn't going to be paying the $3,000 to
offer the program for their kids. Um, is there a way for interested students to kind of hop on board the lab middle school program and do that virtual class and then go to lab to take three regions at the end of the year? Like would that be a possibility or if your school
doesn't offer it, you're just stuck? I >> I think that's a great question. And I think that goes back to um the conversation and and superintendent that we were having earlier about the fact that um it would be great even if some of these larger schools like a Wagner or Baroo that had enough students to fill a
class or two classes or more classes then we could open up the spots in those classes to students at other schools um to join who maybe don't have 18 students to do a class. We're actually doing that right now. There is one student um who's
joined the lab class who is not at lab who joins virtually. The students at lab have the opportunity to either get up start at 7:15 in their house and then use that 30 minute window if they're close enough to school to get from home to school or they go in and they do it
in a group setting. Their teacher still on Zoom but they do it in a group setting that's proctored by someone at the school and they have an opportunity to be together in that class. Um so Kelly, would you like to speak at all about your thoughts on how this gets rolled out?
>> Um yeah, thanks. Um yeah, I we have um introduced the idea to the rest of the district 2 middle school leaders. Um and I think that there, you know, we can foresee a couple of classes, two or three I think rolling out next year
across the district in addition to the program that's going to continue at lab. um the school start times are close enough so that they can coordinate schedules. Um and so I and there's
enough interest and enough just looking at kind of some preliminary data around student profiles uh to be able to support uh a couple of additional classes if kids if the um school ends up um getting enough you know student applicants for the program. So yeah, I
think we'll be in in good shape to be able to continue that. Administering the regents is, you know, like the least of the the challenges. Probably the biggest challenge for the middle schoolers is, you know, getting up in the morning and doing math right away, but um as you point out, you know, this is a group of kids who are really excited about this
and their families are excited about this. But um the uh the regions uh the geometry regions can be administered um in every any school um in accordance with the the state schedule. So yeah, I I foresee I think that the you know that
we will probably not have programs that are just run at one school. Um that we will have uh programs that pull kids from a few different schools. >> Okay. And um I want to I Chen, you have
your hand up. Do you want to ask the next question? Yes, please. Yes, thank you. Um, yeah, I was just taking some notes as well. Yeah, so thank you. Uh, uh, Brandon, you made some great points about local norms, flexible enroll, I think
flexibility in the enrollment. I think, um, you may have me alluded to that. I think um you know my you know I've been involved with uh DC and and place NYC to also have um you know flexible enrollment in like the
gifted programs. I think that's important because um you don't lock in people or prevent people when they're ready for advanced curriculum and also universal assessment. But I also want to state that you know some of the some of the discussions around oh it's gifted or
you know advanced I'll be very honest this you know what we think is advanced is really not advanced over the past 2030 years our standards have actually fallen uh behind have gotten lower and what we ask of our students and I like
what you said uh Brandon about you know you know giving uh students more of a challenge we haven't really challenged our students either through teaching or not. And the other factor is we talk about whether we should have homogeneous or or mixed, you know, ability
classrooms. Well, the majority of the classrooms in New York City are are mixed mixed ability and we have like what 40 50% students who are below proficiency uh in math and English. I think that really tells you we have a a
mixed ability environment as default and it's failed. And it's really important that we do have uh targeted classrooms for students who are ready. And this is this is like you know we think that you know kids in China are super bright. No because they have you know they have
different things and they push them more longer longer school days and so forth and they offer the more advanced curricula but you know that it's not like you have super duper kids across the board. No, it's like because the the the standards are high. Um, yeah. So, I
I mean, I had a I had did have a question, but I forgot uh what it is. If I do, I don't know if I can chat it or or raise my hand later to ask, but I hope this >> you guys do later if we don't run out of time. >> Thanks. Yeah. Yeah. I hope you hope you guys do this. I hope it expands. I don't think it's leaving people behind. It's
uh it's no longer forcing kids who are ready to be to be left out of the education um process because they're bored as hell or it's over their head. That's that's not equity. Thank you. >> Thanks. Um, Lisa, I see you have your hand raised.
>> Hi. Can you hear me? >> Yes. >> Okay, great. Um, yeah, thank you so much Allison and Daniela and Brandon for, you know, putting this together tonight. Um, so much of what Brandon said resonated with the the geometry class that's
happening at Lab Middle right now. And I just wanted to note that this was something that was really grassroots that came from the the families and the community. Like we I worked on the SLT to help this get off the ground and um
so far it's been so successful. Um kids are doing really well in it and um you know my my son came to me like a month ago and said, "Well, what class am I going to do like before school next year?" Like that's how much he likes it. And even though yes, it's like those
early mornings are a bit tough, um he's already looking forward to trying some other challenge next year as an eighth grader. So, who knows? Uh Superintendent Magguire, he may get an email asking for algebra 2, although I would just like
him to get his sleep. Um but he's really enjoyed it and the kids really they've bonded. they've h they have a good experience and it's really important um that they have these these successes because that builds their confidence as and their self-esteem as well as you
know their skills and their academic learning. Um, I just wanted to ask Superintendent Magguire. Um, oh, and also Brandon 100% the way that the class was kind of like developed was using the, um, the assessments of the I Ready
data which all the students are doing internally within the school. So, yes, it's like a locally normed and and school independent um, system. So, uh, just thinking about how it could be expanded and and even more successful
for the future because I was excited when Superintendent Magguire said anticipating two or three other schools trying this out. um you know, like how can we in district 2 really push the envelope for uh rigorous math in even
upper elementary school like in fourth and fifth grade because as you said front loing is so important and that's how you get kids by by middle school who are ready for these challenges. Um, so I was just wondering like what else can we
do in the elementary school level that's really going to support, you know, geometry pilot or other, you know, uh, accelerated options like this? >> I mean, well, I will say I I do think that all kids can get out a lot out of a
mixed ability classroom. Um and in the past just recently in the past couple of years um many elementary schools in our district have shifted to a curriculum that is aligned with the next generation learning standards. And prior uh to just
a couple of years ago we were using a curriculum that was not um not aligned and not fully not fully rigorous in the way that it could be. Um, so that transition is a really important one happening in our district and I think is
going to help to set up more kids for uh doing more advanced math both in middle school and in high school. The other thing that's kind of happening simultaneously too is that you know more and more schools are um building out these uh intervention or what I need uh
class periods and you know we're defining those what I need periods as not just for kids who are not yet working at grade level but also for kids who are working um at or above grade level. And so that also is a new
structure that's happening in the school and it's different than um the ways that we've approach approached you know differentiated instruction in the past. um it's much much more serious of uh an approach to supporting kids at all
levels. And um so I really think we're just at the very beginning of putting some of these structures in place and also uh working well with these new curricula um that are just pushing kids thinking a whole lot more than the
previous curricula that we had. >> Thank you. Yeah. >> Any other further questions um this evening for Brandon, for myself, or for the superintendent? >> I have one question. Um Kelly, I think
that the schools that are going to be offering this this year might help some parents actually make the decision if they stay in the district or not. Uh as some of the parents already said, when can we expect to know which schools will be able to to expand this program? um
that has been so successful at middle lab. Do we have a timeline for this? Yeah, I I think that by the middle of May, we will know where it is that we're going to be like which uh schools are going to be the home schools. But I do
just want to reiterate that even if um a smaller school like a 289 or um Yorkville East or something like that um had students who wanted to participate that we could figure out a way uh to make sure that they were included in the
program of a Wagner lab or Baroo or something like that. So, I really think there's going to be um access and opportunity for any student who wants to participate to be in. >> But I do also think it's important, you know, I mean, I appreciate the kind of concurrent conversation about um looking
at readiness. Um I do think that that's an important piece here um as well. uh because the not only you know is the curriculum um you know a curriculum that's normally taught in 10th grade but it's also um you know it requires a
certain uh amount of uh enthusiasm and energy for um doing the work. So um it's important I think in this case to um make sure that there's uh you know kind of a triple check on making sure that the kids who are joining the class um
are going to be able to be successful with it. Agreed. Okay. Well, thank you for joining us, Superintendent Magguire. Thank you, Brandon Wright. Thanks to Daniela and the rest of the committee and the CEC and to all the parents who came out tonight, please feel free to
reach out to any of us. Um, Liz, did you want to say one final thing? >> Yes. One one final thing. As Lisa mentioned, moving from elementary school, I would like to point out what happens on the other end when a student
goes to high school. um initiating a program like this um may require some of the district high schools to approach students a little more flexibly. Uh if a if a kid comes out of middle school having taken
algebra 1 and geometry, they will essentially only be lined up to go to specialized high schools. And I know have since I have an eighth grader um a school like Millennium would not let a
student come into their school and start as a ninth grader in a more advanced course uh because of the uh you know the just the nature of their their program. So, it would be nice to see um to see
high schools besides specialized high schools able to to take in students who are coming out of this program. >> We'll make sure we share this with the uh city council wide and high schools. We have some some colleagues there that
we can definitely share that feedback. >> Okay. Thanks, Liz and thank you everyone. >> All right. Have a good night. Thank you.