call the meeting to order at about 3:04. And first item on the agenda was for minutes. We don't have any. So we will move right into section two, the compensation and classification plan. Continued picking up where we left off.
and P. So, um, at the last meeting, we finalized or we we did the position rating analysis. And based off of that, uh, position rating
analysis, we then also agreed that we would use a 50point break for each of the grade buckets. So I then did that and I created the compensation classification plan based on that 50 point
bucket. I put each position into that at the starting rate of 17. What was the starting rate? 177. No, that's not the starting rate. And I'll explain in a second. um because I applied the cola. So that's
why it's not the starting rate. So the starting rate that was originally proposed from the consultant was $1710. I put that into step one, grade one, but also applied the cola, which was approved at 4%. So that actually
comes out to 1778. And then and then I applied the step increases and the grade increases. Um, however, when I did the grade increases, we originally were doing an 8% grade increase or an 8% increase between each grade level. That
was putting us way behind schedule because we had much many far fewer grades than before. So, I adjusted that to a 12% change between each grade. Uh and when I then put
that those values into every employee at a step one, there was an there were a number of employees that were well underfunded compared to where they are currently.
Um primarily in uh grades one, two, and three, a little bit in four as well. um and a few they were interspersed. So essentially I was a little nervous. Didn't feel that the 50 point bucket was a good option. So I just wanted to test
out a couple other options. So I then tested out another one which was Is that number two? That's number two. Um, this one used Let me pull back up one second. This would use a 45 point uh
spread in each bucket consistently. Um, using that 45 point for each grade bucket. We ended up with 10 grades. Um I then used an 11% increase
between grades. Um the reason being it you're starting at 1710 and getting all the way up to grade 10. We were keeping ourselves pretty in line from start to end. However, with that one applied, we were
still having significant issues with the price or price the pay rates in grades one, two, and three uh and four at this time. So, I did one more test. Yeah, just a a quick question. Um when you say
uh differences that means I'm looking at the one called pre-final in this case pre-final 2 and I'm looking at um the second to last or the last column. One is hourly, one is annual and anything in parentheses is a a negative difference
between what they're paid now and what uh this new scheme would do. Okay. All right. Just to make Yeah. making sure cuz there there are still some up in the grade five on that one. I see. Yeah. Well, there's the handful, but the
primary issue is still in those the lower buckets, the lower grades. You can see and it's still true all the way up through 10. Raise 10. Rid 10 also has negatives.
What? Rid 10 is also negative. On what? Amy and Sher on number three. Oh, we're not on number three yet. We're on number two. Sorry. No, but Amy Shreder Amy Shreder is a negative even on number two. That's a
grade seven. Um, again, yeah, there are going to be a couple outstanding ones on the higher ones, but the primary issue is really in our lower grades. Yep. Um, where you even have
like the assistant treasurer collector at a negative 6.7. Um, and that's a negative on the hourly rate. So, um, I did one more test. This one used
um that one 25. Yeah, I think it's like 25 or 30. That number two was 30 to begin with between the two points. But 30 or No, it was 45.
Yeah, the first one was 50, then it was 45. Oh, okay. So then my last test was using 30 point buckets for the first 10 grades and then 50 point buckets for everything grades 11 beyond. So 30 for the first
10. Yep. And 50 after. Yep. Which ends up with 13 grades. You can see now there is still disparity in grades one through six.
They are smaller rate differences. Um a number of these still are where we're I have all of them in at step one. A lot of the employees won't be current employees aren't going to be at step one. But I just want to call out
of step one, there is still these um outstanding where there's still a loss in the wreath values. Um but what it does is it does keep like our the higher levels don't
really have any losses other than um Wayne and Amy. They are still in negatives. And then you do have a negative on what's this the Dylan senior operator
level. We would then we wouldn't do any reductions. Um and um so we would keep them even anyways. But I just just doing this test, I wanted to show you where the differences are of where they're currently paid
versus where they would be if we put in this great scale at set one. In the end, I think you have less you get better parody when you are
using the third and final option. However, I don't know that we should be starting at we were starting at 1710 $1710 plus the 4% cola, which is why I think our earlier grades
are still showing in the low because we're starting so low. 1710 came from the consultant. Yeah. And that was based off of the rate of pay of those currently their current
pays in um the grade one. And that was because currently the constables are the lower hourly rate of all those in grade one at 1710. So she was using 1710 as the starting
point. And then moving on, I have just a question out of curiosity and I know municipalities at least lately has always done when it comes to colas same percentage across the board. What tends to happen is the the
low end and the top end just keep getting further and further apart because of the higher number bigger bigger increase rate. Is there anything that the town should at some point be looking at is to do
like a sliding scale or something so that the the low end more or less stays a little closer instead of continuing to spread out. Is that you know what I'm saying? I think Yeah. Yeah.
Because a 4% increase on a $50,000 salary versus a $100,000 salary is significantly different. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I'm getting at. And so is that So you could do a step call. I don't know. I'm just asking that question. Is that ever something
that anyone's run up against? I'm sure it's come up or been handled in one way. But well, the percent was sort of like the better thing to do in some ways. I I'm like what's the other option to just
give everybody an absolute number dollar number raise and that would probably be like seem unfair to um so I mean percentage mostly because we're look compar we're doing colas
based on cost of interest cost of living and people who are on the lower end are presumably not at the end of their careers yet and they're they may not be a cemetery sexton forever. They may work their way up to to higher grades and so
on. So I I guess I wasn't thinking of that in the same way as you were thinking of it. I just bring it up because I didn't know if that would at some point in time help that low end that we're strug seem to be struggling with. Yeah.
Hi. Can I Yeah. Yeah. So, I completely concur with the sentiment, but legally, no. There's no way you can do a different cola for different classes of employees. I'm almost certain that's true.
Yeah. The only the only other option, and I think there was one town that in the study that did an an a certain hourly rate increase. Yeah, Ashefield did a 2% cola plus $1
per hour increase. So, everybody's pay rate went up by a dollar with a a 2% cola applied, which would increase that's that ends up being a bigger percentage on the lower level
than it does on the top. It does. Yeah. I guess that's what I'm That's not Yeah. So, that's kind of a hybrid, right? They're doing a little bit of each. absolute race for everyone and a percentage raise for everyone.
Calling one a cola and calling one. The reason why they did that though is because they don't have a classification plan. So they don't have a step process. So um that it may be just something to think about in the future. Yeah. Yeah. It was there to give essentially
everybody a $1 step increase and then their cola. whereas we're creating the step increases now and adding them. Okay. So, it's kind of doing the same thing without the step increases being the same across the board. Well, um I had another kind of question.
And I'm not sure where it maybe it's really in the figuring out where people start on their steps, but I'm thinking we're making this comparison here between some hypothetical employees who all start on step one and we're comparing them to
employees we have now who may or may not because of their years of service really be on step one. And I'm thinking particularly of well Amy's not with us anymore, but Amy's position and and Wayne's position, those are ones where
the the market in a way sets their rate. Um that those I mean it's really hard to find people who are trained to be treasure collector. Um it's hard to find someone who's who can be trained to run our water department. Um it's it seems
to me somewhere in here that kind of the market rate for wages should come into it. And I'm not sure where that is. Um so far I don't think I've seen it. We just you basically you pinned the value in the top corner of the
pre-final box. The pre-final one with um just shows the steps. You did that. You put in 8% and 8% or whatever the percents for the grades and the steps. uh in between stops step between steps between grades uh for the fire and for
the others and then the rest of the chart fills out right and then the other one is just a comparison. So I sort of feel like the comparison is not necessarily the most useful one unless we were to put those people on steps then it would be a little bit more
useful. Um, but I I I guess I don't understand where uh sort of the what is the market paying for this batch of talent versus that batch of talent. There was a spreadsheet
that incorporated that and showed 75% of the wage. Yeah, I can't find it off the top of my It's in there some It's a lot of paper from the first meeting. Yeah, it was from a while ago. was from a while ago. That was one tree
ago. But to your your question, would that be helpful because eventually you got to get down employee by employee, right? No. So, let's step back. That market that report that you're referring to and that percentile, those numbers then were fed into
creating that step table. Okay. So, it's already So, it is already incorporated. Okay. So, that answers Joyce's question. Yeah. So, for example, then um it may be that even starting from number three,
which is where Pete thought would be the is the best of the three we've we've got in front of us, then probably what we would end up doing is put people on steps that are uh kind of commensurate with their current rate and start from there. Yeah,
that's the best we could do. Yeah. Um and it may or may not come compare exactly to their years of experience. Um, but my guess is it probably won't be that different. I I think no matter what happens,
there's going to be that fluctuation and because we've regraded everything that it's going to take a few years for the for things to work out and get more in line. Um I mean for instance the police officers are jumping way up
and it it's things it's just going to take some time and even those that are that we now are feeling are are being paid too much if I if you want to use that word um it's going to take a few years where they may not get a step or
as much or they might start off pretty high on the step right steps does it have to be a constant percentage between grades. It doesn't because that might also be a a place
where um putting in a higher percentage somewhere low in there. Uh, and then a lower percentage later on because there are some where there's like a a really significant amount over like
um like some are like four and $5 an hour more under this particular. And so it it might help um you know if they were if we started out with higher percents in the first
couple uh and then like a higher percentage difference um and then a smaller percentage difference between some of the higher upper ones and they would probably overlap more with each other. That would be okay too. And how does that impact the market
value of the position though you do that? That would be a good question. As time goes on, is the market value going to increase more than we're increasing? If we're shrinking that is that what you're saying? Yeah, I'm saying I think
the first objective is to rightsize the salary so that they're appropriate in the salary range rather than try to sort of back into well they really should only be this far. I think
got to consider the market value as the at the end of the test and I don't know that it might be that your percentage changes aren't aren't between the grades but the changes could be in the steps. I guess
it's saying sort of what you're saying each step here is two and a half%. Yeah. All right. Well, I was thinking leave that alone that that because that's sort of like experience is being rewarded and that you get better at doing your
job the longer you've done it. Um the thing I was saying is that we've sort of we arbitrarily you know put these into buckets but maybe the the you know we're it's not necessarily oh this is going to sound really horribly physicsy. It's not
necessarily a linear function between uh grade one and grade 10. All right. It might be that what we need is to go up a little faster and then up a little slower. Does that make sense? Um, and
that would be another way of dealing with the the bad fit that we have. And it might just get us a better starting point to fit cuz I think with some people if we just like chuck them all the way to the right hand side of the
steps then then you know after a year or two maybe they don't have any more steps. They're stepped out. Um, and maybe that's fine, but um, it just seemed like that's not it seems like a
not I don't have that much finesse. And so I added a column to the right of this document that we're looking at right now to show the percentage delta number three of the cost impact spreadsheet. Uh yes,
cost impact sheep to look at the wage rates and obviously some are negative because we they have to be increased but generally the ones that are well over that we're talking about we're talking about 14% increases in the
wage. It's a pretty big jump. That's how it's currently resolved and like nobody's like 5% plus whatever you know it's 4% cola and 10% and that may well be accurate
relative to again what's the market value of the positioning we really underpay and now we need to self-correct the issue but the number is going to jump out on the paper when you you look at it that
way 14% what I'm struggling with is when we're looking at the current rate that's based on an individual who is at a step other than step one, but when we're looking at the proposed
rates, they're all step one. So, we're kind of evaluating how how far off we are when in reality, we're probably off different amounts because you factor in the person who is a step five. Now,
should we be comparing what the proposed step five salary is? Well, Susan, the problem is we don't have steps right now. But, but if we were to say, okay, I'm making this up. If we were to say 5 years is step five
and this person has been here 5 years, we're assuming everybody is at the bottom and I don't think everybody, you know, even close is at the bottom. No. The reason why I couldn't put them in at a value for their step is we haven't agreed what the step proposal
should be. Understood. I think what I'm saying is maybe we need to have that conversation so we can overlay that. Yeah. Because that may negate some of the variance we're seeing. Yeah. If we take the cost analysis impact on
number three, did you look at putting everybody in is there anybody that's already at step 10? Did you look at that yet? Not yet. No. So I mean that
Well, let's just look at somebody who's got a really high negative. So the backup operator It's at 29.96 grade five was to add step 10 302 would be an
increase step 10 and you've been there says 38 years but I don't know if that's actually been in that role. Um let's look at somebody else. Wayne as a grade 10. Where is Wayne? Towards the bottom of the screen.
Towards the bottom of the bottom. Oh. Oh, go ahead. Um, if he's grade 10 and it would be if it's nine years, step nine would be 4331. That would be an increase over his
current rate. Uh I'm sorry. Say that. Say that again. I couldn't hear you. That's a 5% increase. That's not an unreasonable increase. That's including coal at 4%. Correct. Yeah. And that's but it's high up on
that's at step nine. He's always step to correct. We were looking at Amy Amy Amy Shrader. Now that obviously that role is different now. Um
but even if and that was also a contracted position. So, it's a little bit of a wonky the the rate is higher because it was a contracted position, but um her current rate would put her somewhere between steps five and six
of the grade that we're proposing. Yeah, that's that's middle of the where the new treasure collector would likely come in at a lower stent. So, correct. Yeah. Yep.
Um, so I would say based on looking at those high differences and then actually looking at where they might fall, they're they're not beyond our step people. They're still within our step. Okay. With a little bit of room to grow, which is what I think for weighing a
small amount, but that's because the number of years of service. Correct. Otherwise, if we were to determine that, this again brings us to the question of are we doing steps every year or is it every other year? Then Wayne would be then Wayne would be
step four um which would be 3828 which would mean it's lower than current. So we would only be applying colas on the previous year's salary and no step increase until he finally hit where he was in a step increase that would and it
may be that somebody maxes out and then we get after that and it's the reality that's typically how it's done right I just was hoping we would start with somebody at the top right that that knows they're going to still be working
for another that they have to grow but Yeah. Well, the more I think about it, the more I I I think what uh Susan said was important that if we and it sounds like by looking at where someone would sit on a step in the steps, if that's really taking care of a lot of the
discrepancy that maybe that's the next logical step, pun intended, uh would be to put folks on steps and see what that does to the discrepancies we see. Well, I can do that now while we're sitting here if you
want. Sure. It won't take long. I think we that would be helpful. Now, the only question I'm going to I'm going to call out a few of the positions. If you can verify if the numbers I have are correct because the numbers I have are from their hire date unfortunately are are
Yeah, it's it's solely based on years of service, not how long they've been in a role. So I might need you to there like off the top of your head just for information purposes we do this. So get get ready. Yeah. Yeah. Hope
you had an easy day. Expect me to know that. Right. It's why we're doing this before you retire. So begin now we're using one year equals
17. Yeah, let's start with that for the time being. where we can fine-tune. But at least this gives us some indication. All right, Julia. The highest step is going to be 10.
It's got to be has Tom How long has Tom actually been a constable? Um, a good period. 30 years plus. So, he has been over 30 years. So, we'll do 10 again.
22. And then Carol Ryan, three years to 12. So thirsty will put at 10. now. That may change. I mean, you can leave it for now. Oh, because the election. The
election. Yeah. These are not pull papers. Oh, okay. Okay. Um uh Tori, she stays at night until 21 though that is lower than her birthday,
but um you nine years custom for both locations. Um, no. Definitely library. Yes. But I don't think it's been nine. It's probably
been a little less than that. I couldn't tell you if it's Would we do two different rates? I don't think you should. I don't think we should either because he's doing the custodian roll. Yes. Yeah. I would I would leave that. All right. So we'll do it at 9 2167
That's crazy. Correct. Are you on? I'm on your version three, but the police officers Mhm. that are part-time or step This says grade five,
but they're actually grade seven. It says seven. It says five right here. Oh, this is this is three. You're on one. grade seven must be version two
1472 going to the ones that have been here the longest putting all tens and comparing the rate okay to the power. Okay. So Douggee really out of 10.
Yeah. I almost think he's a parttime hourly essentially. Yeah. That based on a number of years it would be a step 10 time. I have mixed feelings. I almost feel like it it should that that should just
be a it maybe should be based on a by years of experience for that position but for operator labor for part for the part-time I when you need somebody I'm
trying to think of another scenario but um maybe I guess it's when I think about like firefighters So maybe it should be left that way. Should be left at the at the 10 at the top. He's nearly at step nine right now. Yeah. But again, if you
if if if I was to hire another part-time operator in a unforeseen event, that person would probably be a lesser, right? So yeah, leave it. Let's leave it. Yeah. You're budgeting right now for
the person. Yep. Yep. Right. Okay. Okay. Backup operator is definitely That's correct. 38 sounds right. Yeah. Okay. Yep. And he started in 86, I think. almost
126 of the max range of that which yeah that's we're you'd expect your oney one year anniversary which you have two I'm realizing that the anniversary of your years of service which is what that years in the role mean is how many years
of service you've had in that role as of July 1. Okay. If you are years of five, you're step six because you start out at one which is year zero. So I'm I go back years in 30 except for those that were already
in 10 because they already maxed out, right? If we wanted to be really completely geeky about it, we'd we'd start everyone on step zero. Yeah, probably would have been an easier way for me to read this. Yeah,
you could create a step zero. I could just rename them. You just reame, you know, you just start out with the colon. Yeah, you could. Well, that's what we are. That's what our Yeah, it it would literally be renaming the steps, not
recalculating anything. Yeah. So, 0 through nine. Yeah. Yeah. So, that I mean the the step number doesn't necessarily have to be the same number of the as the years of service. I but uh you know here we think of that as
like how does a computer scientist count things and how does a physicist count things. We usually start from one and they usually start from zero. So this is really just the ongoing philosophical you know differences between various professions looking at
them. Anyway, I'm just stalling so that Pete has time to tell you have birthday. your birthday. Why? It's one year, right? You know, there are cultures in which when you are born, you are considered one year old,
which is, you know, honestly, if you're just rounding to the nearest year, that's not bad. Can't hear you, Brenda. She's weighing in on your philosophical Oh, yeah. It's our philosophical thing going on. Brenda, we can't hear you, though. one when you get down to operator
labor P I wanted to have a discussion on years at all 663 she said something and then she put her camera on the server for everyone.
Oh, operator labor. Okay, I'm there. Um, with Scott, he's only been an employee less than for only not even a year, but correctly. We gave him years of service. We gave him credit for years
of service. Yeah. So, that's where I came up with that six. I pulled his uh resume to figure out how many years he had from his previous roles plus the time that he would have been here as of July 1st. But, it's up to you how Yeah. 28 as of July will
add months. So here we had over five years from the previous the couple. I just want to make sure we're we going forward we do this that same
type of thing for I'll take police police department if a police officer comes in and has worked in another town for five years is that one for one or that's what I want just make sure it's that that is
understood that we do the same So that that should bring us to the conversation that when we're talking about bringing people in from previous municipal or state um Massachusetts municipal or state
position their longevity and their years of service. Are we giving them a one to one count? That means you're now you're going to max out over 10 years they're going to be at the very top. Yeah. And there's going to
be a real discrepancy depending difference also in what step they're going to be put on versus their benefits like vacation. You're not going to Yeah.
You're not going to give them years of credit, right? And I think that was like what you had to figure out. Yeah. when you hired the part- timerrs became full-timers and they were only given a year's credit for two years service. So
50%. Yeah. So um and that seems more reasonable. When it comes to the retirement system, it's one for one, but that's because you're in the state retirement system. I get it. It's one for one. Um I like that idea
50% pull it over. I I Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. I I was just going to say if if somebody was really doing this same job for 5 years and then they come to us with 5 years of experience um then they've got five more years of
getting steps um and as they're getting even better at their job. and we're just using 10 years as our um span for the the time that people will will still be improving at their jobs. Um it doesn't seem like we need to
discount years of service elsewhere if it's really in the same role. If it's in a different role, then maybe it should be discounted. But I agree with that. I think we are hiring them because of their
experience in many cases. Yeah. Yeah. The only thing I'm going to say like in the case of Eric who is at this point has only got three years is he he came with a lot of experience in some of the other aspects that he is
very beneful bene benefit beneficial to the town. I mean he he spent years as a um doing roofing work you know. So when I when I need him to to help me do like carpentry work, I mean, he excels at that. Yeah. So So I Yeah. So I think we
ought to be able to count that uh in some appropriate way. It doesn't necessarily have to be discounted, right? So at the very least, I I feel that there shouldn't that Eric shouldn't see it a ne, you know, a discrepancy of
three versus six in this case. That's all I'm saying. And so maybe to allay your fear because right now what we're doing is we're just getting people into there's it's going to get them into
their their staff. We're just trying right sides essentially. Okay. When I look at Eric, Eric is step six with three years of service, meaning the step uh grade six with a step four, meaning
2814, which is less than his current rate. So, we wouldn't put him in at 2814. What we would do is we would take his current rate of 28.82 82 which simply applied to Mola which gives us $29.97 which is 40 cents less than the
rate that uh Scott would be getting. So in the end, yeah, Eric's getting a little bit less, but Scott also has the previous municipal experience. So that's where the change is if Yeah, I don't Yeah. Yeah.
have to do that employee by employee, right? Or it could be or based on what we do is we actually adjust any of these where they're less than their current rate. We move them into the step
that's higher than their current rate closest to and higher. That way they're actually at that step that's at that rate. Um they're not at a weird number within their their grade. Okay, that would be the other way to achieve this because there are even as I'm got like
half the list done, there are some people that are still a little off. Um, so we would want to adjust them. Oh, it kind of moved them within the tables, but they are at the step and
that it at least I would suggest that we look at a rate that's approximate to their current rate plus the cola. So that they're achieving a cola, they're getting into their table and we're showing them that they're at this
step and therefore you have these remaining steps to uh work towards over the coming years. So, can we use that example um on a police officer just so I can follow? Let me get
those two full there. that age I mean years difference is only one year four to three now years of service prior years in years in the role four and
three yeah for the part time please full running across the issue with the part- timerrs all being paid 2312. They're in step seven. Step seven, step one is 2822. Yeah.
the the police officers under the new schema um see a significant jump. Oh, good. Seven. I think it should and again a very broad range in part time because we have a lot of
different right go from one to 25 years before. would be easier for going back and forth. So looking at I just want to look at I'm
going to sort this just to see the rate of change for those that are negative. Right? There are a number of people that would still be in the negative. Amy Shraider um but that's a non-issue. I don't think
that's an issue. Yeah. Um Moren would still be at under base because she's only been in the role would it'll be just over a year at a time. Uh so we would likely move her. Her current rate is
28.64. 28.64 at a 4% increase would be 2979. She's in grade five. Five. She's in step nine essentially.
Yeah. Yeah. So, we put her at step nine. Um and then she maxes out at step 10. Yeah. One year later. Yeah. Yeah. There's going to be some people like that. We just you just you're maxing out on your 2.5% growth. Still
getting cold. Still getting cold. Correct. So, I'm going to put her at 29 and then then in the case where let's say she leaves the role, the next person coming in, that's what I'm saying. It's
going to take a while for this to really filter out and and come into play. Then the next one is uh Kimber at the library. She's still $2 under if we take her
rate 2152 and that is a grade one. 2152. Uh we put her at a 9. Yeah. two
years. Um then uh Tori who's our admin assistant to the a commissioning community preservation committee she is under by about $2. So again would be
$221 and that is in grade 2 to 22 uh step seven. Yeah. some 22 bumping up on 10. You add in a few more steps so they have somewhere to go other than just going You just do 12 steps. The same would be
true for the other admin assistant role for planning board and zoning board listed as Valerie. She won't never be doing that. But we have to right sides that that the position is
being paid the same 23 27. All right. And then Carol also in the library. She is still down 20. Her rate is 2035. So 21 20 14 or do we go back?
I would say we go step eight. Oh, wait. 2114. She's got one more year of experience. Actually, Carol at nine, Carol at 8. problem is that Carol already is getting
paid less than Kimber. Yeah, they're not getting paid the same rate. I see that one's working more hours per week and for less money. We don't know why. That's bizarre. That's what the trustees did.
Yeah. But um so we I I would say put her in at nine because she has been injured longer so that she and Kimber can be at the same step. But that's that's my thought. Anybody
else? I I need to know more about why already have that discrepancy. Why the newest employee is higher than one? It's weird. Yeah, I think we should
probably just bring her up. I mean, just right size it. Just right size it. Make it right. Yeah. There you go. Okay. The overall cost is really not that
much. No, that's I understand,000 bucks. Hold on. Then we have Dylan who is at 3152 right now. We did the cola. It would be 3278. He is in grade eight all
the way to 10. What? 3260. 3278 grade 8 should be Oh, I'm looking operate. I'm sorry. I was Oh, okay. I was
like I was looking uh step four 3282. Yep. Eric a little under Eric Elliot. Yep. Uh he's under by 68 cent. So what
we did is 28.82 to can I apply the added 998 3030 you have website. Yeah. Yes. At the assistant town clerk. Um if we apply the
2741 * 104 2851 and this is a grade 6 2851 step five step five at 284 uh the community development director administrator. Why are there two
different rates? Um, why are there two different rates? Admin, assistant, assistant town clerk. Same person. Two different rates. Two different Because two different jobs. One's the administrative assistant, one's the assistant town clerk.
Different. How do you keep track of that? She works the town clerk on Thursday, but as the administrative assistant Monday through Wednesday. boundaries. Yeah, she reminds me when she can't help me.
Sorry. Have a hat on thing. Interesting. Um, so if we take Erica's current grade 26 594 2765, this is also in grade six5.
have to go to step four. Step four. Yeah. 14. So, can I ask you a quick question? Are you clearly editing a document in real time? Is it the one that's called pre-final
three proposed 2026 employee rates? Yes. Yep. Okay. And like which column are you editing? I am editing the column step and then FY column L right yeah column L to give
them their grade or their their step level and then I'm editing column N to uh put in their proposed FY hourly FY because I'm not seeing the changes when I look on Yeah, me neither. I'm seeing
boxes highlighted but not the actual changes. Yeah, I'm not I'm not editing the version that you see online, but I have a separate file of that same file where I'm editing that. Would it help if you screen shared
or Yep, I'll do that now. The end. Could we put in that percentage delta just so I just like to know the answer to the test? I thought this patience not my strength.
Others need it. All right. Um a lease. Oh, transfer station. Police. Uh 2119 is current hourly with a low with the 4% would be 2204.
This is grade three set four 2234 then Matthew Matt's Same thing here. He would have to be at the same rate as the lease. It's the same hourly
that should sit everybody except for I go back. Why are you moving him to 223? Because he also is at 2119 currently, right? And that's less than um he was still losing. So if I applied the cola
just like I did for a lease. Got it. Exactly. Y got it. Thank you. All right. Um go back. Now we have
You're thinking column P shows the delta of the hourly rate compared for the proposed FY26 against the current 25. And you can see in the key column now there's no negative numbers. The only negative is 80. That's but that's a mood
point. Yeah. So everybody is in the positive. How do you budget for the mood point? Was it It was a contract. It was a contract. We're bringing in employee. Uh we'll bring in
um Yeah. Well, I think whoever makes the contract with them needs to keep this in mind. Yes. Wait, who does that Joyce? Well, yeah. I think it's a slight word. I I believe
that is the case. Now, you know, if we had we done this, you know, years ago, then maybe this would not have been, you know, that would not have been come become necessary. But yeah, we still need to budget for a contract.
Shouldn't be a contract. We shouldn't have because the posting was based on the current um budget, right? So we didn't agree with way in our posting we didn't say something beyond what we get a big number you it'll put in what the
current was the current contract was up to a certain amount of the the job posting yeah was up to was up to whatever the budgeted what her contract would contract inside of this exercise you're going to put in
the up to number this exercise what we're doing to present say here's the payroll cost of the so you're saying we should show at least what the proposed salary is for because you want to get to the number I
think before you go to the finance people and say we need then I'd say you put it in you just I put it in for you put in at step 10 oh just a budget for because when you're full of applicants
if you have somebody that's comes to the town that's got 30 years as a treasure collector in Oshkosh Wisconsin and you know what I'm saying it's we don't know if you save money you save money town does not know at the moment
right that's not so yeah that would be all I so then we'll put her in at 4040 and that will take care of that negative number right yeah okay thank you. Yeah.
Okay. Okay. So, with that is my admin position on that page. I want to put my assistant down, but I could have That's the one that we fixed because your your admin assistant role was improved, but your assistant clerk
was not. Sorry. Oh, yeah. So a lot of people just just a couple. Um so with that the now
this does not include all of the stipens. Just putting that out there. It also doesn't budget in the firefighters um as a bucket dollar amount. I I'll just talk with chief to figure that one out. There's no you it's because of the
alcohol. Well, you still have a budget for you have to create a budget. They have to create a budget, but it just it's probably more of a crapshoot for the fire department than it is for the police department because he never knows
who's going to be the one responding, right? Whether it's somebody that was worked one year or someone who's worked 20. Now the right but you could figure out the total number of hours used over the last couple years just split it up and I between that I think the best way
for those variables between the fire department and the police department they just budget a number and it comes to the finance committee near the end say hey because unanticipated public safety yeah correct
and at the same time the like the fire department The finance committee is not going to want to budget to see a budget number of the very highest paid firefighter for all the hours because then they're going to ask for such a
huge increase. Right. You got to be realistic. So correct. No. In order to we also but all the part- timerrs on call are the same wage rate. No. No. No. because there's steps now and the steps are based on how long
they've been been in the role. That's what I'm saying. Same thing with the police department. Which I didn't adjust any firefighters yet. Um but and do you just level fund the stipens
in this exercise? Well, the stipens should probably only be subject to cola. I don't think we want to keep track of steps on the town moderator or the board of health. Those are volunteer positions. Um, honestly, well, and and yes, they should just be a
cola or if there is an adjustment. So, one of the things that was noted by um Lynn is she is one of the lowest paid stipended and emergency management directors at 500. Most are getting over $2,000 a year. Yep.
Um, it's the one statement rule that was called out at being disparit from the others. Correct. I would not be opposed to to I did think that was low as well. Honestly,
I can give you the numbers that she had given. I can see my structure. It's a good structure. I think it drives Jess insane. Way too low. I vote for an increase.
Right. The question I want to pull up the um document so you can see what numbers were provided. Okay. Yeah, she requested 2500 based on the Furcog salary
survey and she was using 2023. Um, I just want to pull up the current one because it wasn't available at the time that she wrote that. You can see the rates range from as high as
5,000 no 5765 down to 1,000. The lowest is a thousand. If you don't if you take weekly out of the equation. It's a it is a huge spread. It is.
Um yeah, 3K maybe. Yeah, I think 25 the very least is fine. 2500 plus the cola. Yeah, 26 25 plus. Okay, I like now that now that would bring them up to being the highest
stipend um in the town, right? Cuz right now the highest stipen is at 2,300. But you're applying cola to that 2300. Sure. But it's not going to be 3,000. I'm pretty
2400. Yeah. And that I think might actually not be a a bad thing. I was just saying, do we have a problem with that? Uh I I I think that I mean that will stand out to some people,
but I think given the importance and um the work that goes with it, I think that that wouldn't be something I have a problem with, but I was just going to point it out. What you know, if it went to 2500, if it went to 3,000,
then they'd certainly be on the top. All right. It's same discussion we've been having about the police. Okay. So, sorry, I was looking up the salary survey. What did we agree to? Um, emergency management being
2500. I was going to say 25 plus the coine. So, $2,600. Yeah. And then for all of these, we're just applying uh the cola. Yeah.
is all subject to audience slight or accepting that to start with and not reading approving it. Correct. That would be a good discussion. Right.
So there we go. All right. The new impact taking the on call fire out is a 1.718 budget, million dollar budget versus current year is 1.4. So it does
increase the salary line item in the town outside of school by 315,000. That's a uh 21%. Okay. But it's going to be a hard cell. It's going to be a very hard cell.
That's why you're here, Jerry. I'll give the police some fire. Oh, pole workers. Well, part of um the increase. Part of the issue of that is that we've accepted the logic that the number of
years of service is also equivalent to these steps. And so you're pushing it way up. You may have to revisit that if you assumption doing it. He's doing what I was just going to ask. I think if you you were just in the cola
box just for the heck of it. What is a 3% if the finance committee comes back and says we won't what does it do to that 315? Can you I don't I was I was Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. I did the cola on the
other sheet and only the bottom of this has it where I can auto adjust it. I have to go back and I just go and do it um manually but I could do it well well know what we could do is we could just reduce by 1%.
Yeah, we should treat the cola separately because right now we're trying to do kind of an apples to apples comparison of what's going to happen to salaries. Just trying to make it a better cell. 000 go in production that I don't think that's right. Okay.
17 because it's 1% off of 1 million7. Oh, I was thinking off the difference. Okay. Right. I was I think if it was if that's a 21% increase, then it'd be a 20% increase if you take away a percentish. So, it'd be just under $300,000
difference. Not much. A lot of the impact here is not a whole lot. I know the step. It's the there's some serious adjustment and the new compensation table and that's what even even if you take it to a zero% column that is going
to still be a big number out of that fire. Well again you've taken the years of service and said yeah everybody's in step 10. So perhaps revisit that. Yeah. But irregardless, there's still some positions, especially police
department with jump upgrades. Yep. So, some positions are getting over 50% increase. That's what I'm saying. So, that we're that's going to make numbers huge no matter what. Yeah. There's nothing we can do about it. Well, because of the the new grade table, but
then because three years service, they're immediately going to 10. It's not that it's the highest and they're in an adjustment. Maybe that shouldn't be how you handle that. Do it any different. This This is looking at one year, one step for a year
as opposed to one step for two years. Correct. Correct. Yeah. I mean, I'm thinking back to what Joyce was saying before that maybe the step should not be a straight line, but it should
because what what is making that number so high is the number of people that we have at the highest step is well well I mean yes it it seems to make it high now but we put them on the high
step for a reason and that means that in the future they won't be getting step increases. They'll Oh, true. to the cap out. So, that's Yeah, you're right. But it it Yeah, it does sort of make this year's higher,
but I I think it's really the people jumping up in category that like the ones that are sticking out. I'm looking at it here from what I can see cuz I can't scroll through the whole thing, but the police
officers stand out at having like $12 increases in their pay rate going from uh like from 20ome to 30 something an hour. So, are policemen in other towns
nearby getting 30 something dollars an hour? Um that would be interesting to look at in the Franklin County survey cuz that's u that's a place where I think if I were on the finance committee I would um
officers. They don't. Oh, they don't. It's just that what you're saying thatual. Yeah. So, there's no way. Okay. And then so and I I don't remember the number for annual salary which is what it seems to be
annual fulltime. Oh, it was right there. There we go. Uh 33. Uh, that's time 68 and then it goes up to like 68. Well, that doesn't seem Ashefield.
Well, Asheville Yeah. Ashefield full-time is 60. But that's Yeah. Oh, and be careful because it's not going to be the same column in each one. No, it's not. There's $30 an hour for the full-time 30
something, right? So, if you consider saying, "Hey, instead of going all the way to step 10 based on 10 years of service, your years of service, step max is
middle of the road, step five." In the case of this 25-y year police officer who's currently at 2312, step five would move to 31. But right now, your budget has another $4 an
hour on top of that. And you're at the top step. I think 23 way too low. 31 feels pretty good. What I'm sort of hearing maybe Jerry saying is that we took a lot of the people who were under and we made their step a little bit
higher to get them there. And and it sounds like we might be saying, well, let's artificially make the step lower. For some people, at least for this transition, it means that as the years go in the next few years, it will
get them up. They will have room to grow instead of being smack up against the top. And it gives us a little easier transition. Right? What I'm what I'm what I'm suggesting is you consistently make everybody that
has beyond the let's call it the five years experience. Everybody goes to step five if you have five or more whether you have 25 or you have 10 and see how that plays out. I I have to go would be a little different, you
know, then and then they'd have room. At least that's consistent. You're setting a consistency consistency. Yeah. Because I think it may be that we've overstated, hence the it's a 300k number. um shot,
but you might want I can't guesstimate yet, but you could save easily 50 grand that 75 grand off that number, which may make it more palatable while still giving people a nice bump.
You're only to do that. Yeah, something like that I think might not be I mean because I think one of the things we could be crit called on crit criticized for is oh you just took people who were below and raised them up and you never took the people who were
higher and bring them down. And this essentially we could say well no actually here's a case where we did because we thought the bump was maybe too high something we couldn't really do all at once. um we put them here that puts them on a path that maybe is going
to be easier for the town to manage. Um and my my guess is that's really going to hit many if not all of the places where the percentage bump is really high. Right. So,
I don't know how to handle it because I all I will say is I just don't feel we can go into the finance committee and ask for 315,000 increase. It's it's just not going to happen. So, we might as well try to make this work. So, if you take
the maximum step you can have is five. So you change all these tens and nines to five and then compare what that wage rate is to what they're currently being paid to make sure a they're getting a decent bump, but b you're not overt
taxing your presentation to the finance committee and to the town and you're not taking what might need to be five years to get to the number and jamming it down everybody's
um you're not forcing the issue year one. You're allowing it to continue to attrition which feels reasonable. At least it might be worth the exercise. Maybe you you save what you just did, do it in a different
document so you can go back to this and if it's not Yeah. Get outside. All right. Has so many finals. Yeah. Do we have to do this all in one
fell swoop of adjusting the salaries and implementing all of the steps or do we or do we have the option of implementing I think as Jerry suggested you know a few steps and then once
things catch up then we can add more steps. Is that an option? proposing adding more steps to the table. Yeah, I don't think so either. Yeah. What I'm saying is cut back to fewer steps that No, yeah. What he's saying is
for those that have um where we were going to have them start out at a higher step beyond five essentially just say no. If you have 25 years of service, seven years of service, the maximum that will put you at currently just to get you started in the table is a step five
and then you're going to keep working up so that there's room to grow. Um because otherwise all the other ones are they're hitting their ceiling. How do you do that? So that that's accomplishing the same thing as I'm saying from a different approach. That makes total see
if that's true that I wouldn't adjust. So So Keith asked the question for those that were we put at an inflated step because they were currently already getting a higher rate. We're not touching them. We're not going to we
can't cut them off. So right, those are the ones that you would that are in red on your table. Right. Those steps where they're getting a a significant increase because of that step. And so we're gonna try to right size that got adjustment. I do now.
Okay. So if I do that, but yes. Well, that will also make sure that nobody goes down. Yeah. So that one just went down. So that one would not correct. They have to go right. Oh yeah,
this one here. Okay. So that would mean they're going to have to be I think they were at a nine there before you. All right. here. If the employee is already making can't do
it. So I can water. Yeah. Yeah. Not going to quite work right. So needs to at least be around 316. It has to be we have to keep them at a step pen. It has to be. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And those ones weren't sticking
out so much in the uh so that it makes sense that those ones might have to stay where they were. They just going to get the co above step. Yeah. that for
that. Yeah, because it's true for Douggee, too. Yeah, that's what we have. Yeah, it's not Y. All right, then down here, Scott. Um, all right. I think you're just picking and choosing
now. Just saying that because you're saying that everybody's going to be maxed out at step five. You're not recognizing any years of service after that right now for the moment. But we're trying to solve a problem. Jim, just to see what the number is. I get it. I get
it. But it's it seems like you're getting further and further away from you got to make some study. True. Picking numbers now it seems like but we got to make something that can be presented.
Um so with with Scott right now, right? Yeah. With Scott his current rate is 28.882. with the cola applying would need to be at these 29 90
97 which means you'd have to be at step seven which is where we were or we were previously back again. Yep. Yep. So then 30. All right then.
I mean, I guess Jim, the way I'm thinking of it is that some of our salaries were more out of whack than others. And for the ones that were more out of whack, we need a softer
on-ramp. And we're accomplishing that by artificially lowering the steps. That's a good way of putting it, Joyce. But there's still the results. That means in within five years though they're going to
be it gives us basically five years to catch up. Even these part-time officers who have more than five years of service, they're still seeing an $8 increase per hour. They're getting a and and I think that's
what Jerry was pointing out earlier. It's still a pretty good bump and it gets us up to like some of the ones we were seeing in the Franklin County um survey which is I I think is a very important survey.
This is one where Wayne's Wayne's got an inflated salary. Yeah. Yeah. Be left up there. It would be 4291. Just the
coline. 291 would mean 4291. It says 979. So, it's one step lower than we were proposing in original. Oh, it's 5,000. I'm sorry. $2,500 savings. Yeah.
Certainly going forward where you are right now, will that change to Okay. All said $250,000 total increase 65,000
1.65 budget for salary 1.65. No, what's that percentage? We were at 2048, still 18%. Which but you at some point have to make the
position of you got to take care of your talent. I know. And a quarter million dollar increase. Okay. Took the bullet. Next year this What was the final number? for one point 1 1.65 65, right? So, this is
going to increase. It's going to be 30,000 40,000. You got to take the fight. I agree. I just want to take Listen, I know I get the bites, but
you're looking at local increases every year for the next at that higher level because every, you know, all those positions that were above five, they're going up six, seven, eight, nine, 10. Oh, yeah. That's right. It spreads it out over a little bit of
time though for us that any given year isn't as shocking as percent increase as this say 30 40,000 a year for the next six years. But that's probably what the town should have been doing. Yeah. That's what we should have been doing
all along. Yeah. Such a massive correction and you're taking care of the people. Okay. How do you feel? Well, I I feel that we at least can go into the finance
committee and say that we were when we first proposed this, we read 315 and we realized that was huge and we came up with this other method and compromising, you know, we come up with something. Yeah.
fiscally proven, right? But you're taking care of. We need to realize some of these positions were drastically off and we have there's no doubt about it. We as a committee have spent hours looking at
re-evaluating every employee, every position, not every employee, but every position. And I feel that when we came up with the with the grades and for each position that they're legit.
Do we have a motion to approve the compensation and classification command the um the table of grades and the rates on the steps the version the final version final three or
pre the big sheet second or second what was it no the sheep or the big sheep the sheep that's about right there it's just the job titles and the step numbers the step rates Right. Moved in. So I have a
motion motion made and seconded to approve the compensation classification plan proposed version three. How's that? Good. Y any any other discussion? We have to vote. Yes.
Hearing says yes. Hearing no further discussion. I'll do a roll call vote. Sorry. Susan I. Joyce I Brenda I what?
And Sherry yes and myself. Yes. So that's unanimous. Okay. Do we have a um a motion on the cost impact analysis based on the rules that we just created that brought us to an increase of
248,200 I'm um I move that we approve the uh final uh the document that we're looking at called final two proposed post FY 2026 employee rates second a new title.
Okay. Could I just ask that we add a percentage delta column at some what's the delta what they're currently making to what's being proposed? What's the percentage percent increase? You want the annual changed into a percentage.
No, just the column right next to it. Right. Right. Exactly. You want the annual, convert it into a percentage. If it's in percentage, it could be annual or hourly. You should get the same number. You got the dollar cost. I'm just saying put a column next to it
that says percentage delta. So, we can say this went up $5,000. It's a 9% increase. Now, we can argue about the value of that position in the community. Then you'll have the whole
answer. Okay, I'm going to second daddy. Okay, so I have a motion made by was it Joyce? Right. But Joyce now has a question. Final two. Is that the wrong document?
No, this is right. It's got the same as final because I thought final three was what we No, prefal three was for the compensation classification plan. That was a separate different file. Okay. Thank you. Final two proposed 2026
employee rates. Yes. Yeah. Okay. So, I have a motion made by Joyce and seconded by Jerry. Just you got Are you clear on how you hear? Okay. Any other
discussion? And hearing none, I'll put this up for roll call vote. Susan, I choice. Hi. Brenda Jerry yes and yes myself in the man. Okay. The last item then
is the discussion on the proposal of how the select board should um implement the step process. If the step process will be each anniversary, your anniversary as of July
1st or that that year will determine your step plus one. That seems I would move that one step equals one year with your uh years at your
anniversary out July 1st. That's the only thing that makes any sense to do. Agreed. So I guess that's in motion form the one year per step with the anniversary on July 1st. So I guess my
agreed is a second. Okay. So I have a motion made and seconded. Yes, you're clear on that motion. All right. Then any other discussion hearing? None. I'll put it up
for roll call. Joyce. Hi. Brenda. Hi. Susan. Hi. Jerry. Yes. and myself. Yes, that passes unanimous. Okay. Is there what's anything else?
I'm free. Next Monday that we don't need to our next meeting might be with somebody other than Keith. I Good working group. So our next um this will be proposed to the finance
committee when tomorrow night tomorrow night. See you there. I will be there. Okay. And we don't need to do anything like um elect a new chair because we know Keith isn't coming back to the committee. That can be reorganized when
the next time we meet, right? Yeah. Yes. Okay. Good. I've got an extra guest for you tomorrow. Beware. Two 2.2. too. I'll be over by that back door. I know
how to open that. All right. Um then is there any other items not anticipated? Hearing none. Call for a motion to adjourn. So moved. Seconded.
Have a motion made. Second to adjurnn. Roll call vote. Susan I. Joyce I. Brenda. Hi.
Cherry. Yes. And myself. Yes. Thank you everybody. Sten