everyone welcome to our committee the whole where we um support community through quality public service I'll call the meeting to order at 10:31 So on our agenda we have the uh minutes of the March meeting and then
we'll go right into um some of the different topics that we have to discuss today Starting off with uh Robbie and the road juris jurisdiction discussion to be continued Awesome Thank you Jenny Um so if you guys all remember last time
a month ago we were talking about you know potentially some additions some subtractions to our road system Um after our discussion we really kind of left off you know the additions was kind of got the AOK to reach out to the Forest Service there Um so so an update on that
one as I did Uh they got back to me and said they thought it would be like a six month to 6 to 12 month process They have to go through a NEPO review and a historical review on their roads They also want to do a centerline survey of
their roads and then you know collect all you know rightway information that type of stuff So 6 months to a year um on that one So that's kind of where that sits That doesn't finalize anything That just gets us the next step So there's still plenty of discussion for that but
you know we're kind of moving in the yep we'll do it category So um but it it seemed like we had far more discussion on removals Um and so if you look at the map you'll see the map looks pretty darn familiar One road we took off after oops
after some field trips was actually Hansen Hemstead Um I know Commissioner Stoley had brought that up as a concern and you know we went and did a field trip or Matt went out with uh some of our staff in a field trip and you'll see that under the road condition column You can see some notes there about the type
of road after we looked at it we just didn't think at this point in time you know we're not going to talk about that one yet Um I just to add to that um Hansen Hemstead probably represents what and I I hate to use this term but like kind of a tier two So these are tier one
meaning like driveways Yeah Uh but tier two is there's actually more significant number of residences and there's also a higher average daily traffic So that's the reason why that one got removed It's like if you started to talk about
removing that road you'd be talking you'd be opening up a whole can of worms in terms of other roads that fit that category Good point Very good point Um so the second handout you'll see and and thank you to Neva too for providing a lot of context last time and also for
this is each of the roads you know from the map on the first page you'll see and you can see information specifically on each one Um some of the things that we had talked about was you know how much does it cost on each road including labor how much does it cost just
materials homesteads nonhomesteads Um Matt did a great job going through the filing cabinets and pulling out any historical notes we could find Um like I had mentioned we had taken some staff out for a field trip to see kind of what do these roads look like As you'll notice a lot of them
are very narrow overgrown uh uh you know grass in the middle of the road You know put road in quotes now because I mean these are these are driveways Um and then you can see some additional notes that I'm not going to say one thing about but land use notes and zoning setback changes that NEA will be able to
speak to Uh if you look on the back of the big sheet there's also some more information You can see the different setback requirements Um and then some additional notes uh that that we included and I think kind of the highlighted one there will be a big one
Maybe we would need Jean's input for some of that is what happens to these roads how how are they officially you know quote unquote designated um if we were to vacate them or abandon them So um it's kind of a lot to digest but I
didn't know if any thoughts since the last time we had discussed this Any questions Nea do you want to add anything maybe or Sure Um on the far right two columns for each of these
roads I gave a summary of what the zoning is because the zone district is what outlines the structure setbacks from different road designation types So in certain zone districts it will say a different setback from a county road versus what we call other private or
public roads So that is kind of the the first off is the zone districts that are affected for the properties And then the very last column is kind of my very general statement of whether or not this would affect the zoning impact with
those setbacks So yes there are different setbacks for the F3 zone district And then I gave you that table on that back side to show the exact not all zone districts have different setbacks from a county road or what we call other public or private road So
like the single family residential zone district that's the the zone district that's usually along the Lake Superior Highway 61 corridor that has the exact same setback So it wouldn't have any changes for those Um but the the change I didn't specifically say no change
because that's where I put maybe and I'm calling it the big zoning question as to whether or not we're considering these private roads or if we're considering them shared driveways because uh our zoning is very not clear about that So
that that's kind of the consideration that would need to be figured out to determine whether or not there would be a difference with those I want to just give a little bit of historical context too to a lot of these Um uh you'll notice on the under year established a number of them were
established as county roads in the 1960s early 60s There seems to be a I don't know the full story but there seems to have been a push um either that or a very uh accepting board um for adding roads onto the system in the 60s And
then consequently there's also a push at one point to vacate a number of these and none of them appear to have been successful Um and I don't I can't probably didn't do a full investigation but I couldn't determine why those had failed So I don't know the full story
there but uh again additions in the '60s and then various times uh either requests from property owners to vacate roads making life easier for them for various reasons or um from the from the uh highway department on the highway
department side trying to vacate them So let's just watch the videos Yeah exactly Yeah Where are those archives It might have to do with who was serving as commissioner at the time that the roads were introduced and at the time that they were attempted to be out given my
experience in other communities what got attention what didn't get attention But uh first off I'd like to say that I really appreciate the work that went into this This is this is this is a lot of a lot of scrambling to provide this
and so I really really appreciate that Um interesting Any take on why Charlie Lane has as much traffic as it has You did you say you don't really necessarily know but you don't And that's what's some So what's what's hard and I think
it gets into how how uh those those values are calculated And so whether you've seen them or not a lot of you see a tube across the road And so what that is if you ever see that if you don't know what I'm talking about if you just think of a garden hose across the road Yeah Yeah Um so that's what MIDOT uses
to do traffic counts And so they don't you and obviously they don't leave them up all year And so you get into two different things now You have an ADT which is average daily traffic And that's what they're calculating with the two They'll leave it up for a couple of weeks And they'll say "All right over
two weeks we counted a thousand vehicles." Great Um what that gets turned into then is this at And so that smooths it out over the year to say okay you had a thousand vehicles a day in
July but in December I bet you it's not that especially up here And so there's there's different seasonal factors that get plugged into that And so that's where that AAD DT comes from is that So it tries to smooth out those numbers over the year to say well typically how
much traffic are you getting Um as far as why that one is so high they could have been hauling a lot I'm not sure maybe something got fussy with a conversion in there But what's what's nice is when we look at this and you and I've done it on other projects is when
you can get into a road specific thing or a project specifically and we can say okay I think that's too high I can do my own investigation and say well 35 is ridiculous There's one person that lives down there like no you know and I can
provide that to the state and then we can modify it And so it's just we don't do any projects on Charlie and so but I've done it on um we did a bridge replacement up on Cross River there towards the end of the Gun Flint that we modified because that traffic count it just looking at it seemed high then once
we start counting okay there's a resort there's 10 cabins and then you start saying all right it's seasonal start you know assuming trips and whatever and that knocks it down a bit So um that that's my best guess with that one you had uh I'm sure when you brought to this
to us initially had indicated the basis under which you chose to review this So when you look at it from your standpoint which can either be a cost analysis it can be workload analysis and from the
planning and zoning the land use analysis When you look at in the context of all of that then it informs your recommendation to the board which basically at this point is saying here's what we've looked at and our assessment
is based upon costs managing costs and looking whether those costs and return investment is warranted based on these So you're coming to us with a recommendation these are the roads that should be abandoned and you've looked at
it from your standpoint and you don't see any problems there You're just showing us the context and and it's not something at least it it this analysis that says oh my goodness that wouldn't be good because
we anticipate significant development here I could say from a zoning perspective none of these proposals would result in a more restrictive setback That is to say nobody if we took it off being a public road or non-county road at least nobody would then have
their land say you need to have your structure further away from the road And that's what we're always kind of watching out with zoning changes We're doing something that's more restrictive than what people used to have to deal with If anything everything's going to get a little bit more lenient which makes sense We're having grass in the middle of the road There's no reason to be 85 ft from the center line And we
sympathize with people when our rules don't make a lot of sense like that So it's nice to get that fixed so that our setbacks are relative to that location Um you know good bad or otherwise uh we got to kind of figure out that that big zoning question side of things And I did
kind of make a note on my table on the back of Stonegate Road is kind of the one thing that stood out to me as far as an outlier compared to these other ones just that it it does access a lot of parcels maybe not in the um you know this homestead non-h homestead number
only adds up to 11 but when I looked at on the map I was like that's there's a lot of development or potential development on that road so that's that's an observation I'm not making a qualifying statement as to if that's good or bad or otherwise but that's the one that like if we just called it a private drive I think we're going to be
hearing something from the community members about okay well what what's the next thing to do with this so and the one thing we don't have is an opinion in from our attorney Not on on exactly what happens to these Correct We don't know that yet Okay And so I have a rough idea
of what happens but I think there's some I think it I think I think to Neva's point of is it a is it a shared driveway or a private road That I don't know I don't know how that gets figured out Yeah And Stonegate Road to me seems pretty clear that it should be a private road just with the number of parcels
that it's accessing the ones that are just going up to you know one parcel like yeah that makes sense Could just be a driveway Our subdivision ordinance does define uh I think it's private road as being four or more parcels being accessed off of it But the application of that definition is always kind of a
moving target with existing development potential development And and so for what it's worth Stonegate we added on there since most of it's private already So we plow the first what does it say on here 4 miles of it And so that's where you know looking at kind of homesteads
and non-h homesteads you're trying to guess where everybody's driveway is on there So I might be off a property or two on that I'll admit that But the majority you know the rest of it's all private And so that's for us It just looked like one of those well if if 90%
of this road is already private why are we doing this this chunk I didn't understand I missed that No that's okay It's less of an outlier now to me Now it makes more sense Yeah Yeah the process for reintroducing them is not encumbered
by statute or ordinance So in other words let's say our best estimate based upon the analysis at this point is this is a recommendation that'll come before the board and if in fact circumstances change the process for reintroducing is
not encumbered by anything that would prohibit us from doing it I that's a good question I don't know you know you figure the process we're going through with Forest Service roads right now right We're talking to them and so there's a process there as far as taking
over like a private road right Or driveway Um you know I think to like Birch Drive or some of those other ones where there wasn't at one point you would have found a whole checklist from I think the Brandon Lane Standard is Brandon Lane Standard right of people
just petition and then we see that petition I I think the general process was we would used to see a petition then there'd be a letter from our department and then it would come to the board and then you'd like yep great and then you know we would create a road description
a survey for it and then give it a number and here we go So I believe that's how it's been done in the past And in some cases you have such roads where that neighborhood basically has contracted to have that handled and then they get to the point where they just
say "Let's petition the county and see if they'll just take it over." Seems to be how it's been Right Correct Thank you Commissioner Sullivan Thank you Madam Chair Um one of the concerns um I have is regarding Skyport Lane and that
involves the fact that part of Skyport Lane goes across airport property and we're in the process of a master plan and um I think that we need to have our legal counsel and also people from those
that are working on the master plan take a look at this because if it is not if it doesn't become a county road if it is dropped from um plowing and things of that nature it puts the airport at risk right So I think that is something very
careful And I remember you had mentioned that quite a bit I think that's one maybe we you know I don't have like a a maybe page for roads at the moment but but that that's one you know and just for reference for everybody if you know Skyport isn't a county road but we do
everything on it So we grade it we plow it we steam culverts if there are replace them Um so that that's one that was just like I think it's good that we should talk about now and figure out do we either want to make it a county road or stop doing all the services on it
Well and and we need to look at that because whether or not that master plan moves forward may be contingent on right it becoming a county road The last time we had a master plan there weren't as many rules and regulations in place and
there are a lot now And I think also um we don't know what the average daily traffic is on that road but I think if you were to look at it whether it be December or January and also in the summer you'd find a really high count there Right No I believe it I mean I know they host a lot of snow I mean
they're one of the few places open in the winter So right And I think also the fact that that lower old Airstrip area is likely to be developed at some level in the coming decades And so that also is critical that we have access to that
space Maybe that's one we can put and we don't I mean you and I don't have to talk about it now but it's something for us to to consider of you know do should we move this over to the additions one and then really try and figure out that formal process like you're saying if we have to talk to FAA or whoever on that
um we can try and figure that out because if we're already you know kind of the point with the other roads we've talked about adding we're already doing the work on it you know or we're doing the majority of the work on it so formally making it a county road isn't that much of an extra lift you know for
us Okay Thank you Anything else for Rob Yes Yeah And maybe maybe you mentioned this in or implied it in the Brandon Lane standards but just to Commissioner Gamble's uh question about uh the process of
creating a a county road again having those standards in place because it sounds like none of these up to county standards So we wouldn't want to add it unless it was up to county standards which is really expensive So
right there's that hindrance I would say Um but I echo um just that this is extremely helpful this information It gives so much more perspective on on the lay of the land and what the costs are and like the the residents that would be
impacted the non-residents that would be impacted and um and then the zoning um issues too or the zoning uh potential issues as well I don't have any I
mean maybe this isn't fair um but it it feels like with um so few homesteads impacted that it's easier for me I feel more comfortable going down this path I was very hesitant to you know lessen
services for for people uh and transportation is an issue um in our county So but this really does help me gain perspective on on so surprised at the the cost as well I thought it would be higher but but it's
there's opportunity for students Where's your wife Uh is there a way that we could get these numbers on the screen for the public to see them or is this on It's on our Yeah it's in the agenda for today except for the last two columns
Okay So the listening public go to Cook County website to meetings and agendas to committee of the whole and you'll see these charts You'll be able to see the numbers they're looking at Yes And certainly with the
minutes we can add the additional two columns Okay What addition there There's just a couple of extra land use things that we had put together on that spreadsheet No it's okay We didn't we didn't do it to like Oh yesterday Yesterday
Okay Nothing got missed Yeah Yeah Thank you Madam Chair So if the board came to you and said "We're looking at the budget our road budget maintenance and we'd like you to go through and determine maybe where we could have some cost savings to reduce
budget and our maintenance." And it's just good to step back and re-evaluate every now and then see where we're at so that our dollars are being applied where it makes most sense So if the board had come to you with the initiative to do that then I would imagine you would have
set up some criteria to evaluate that and so that's simply to say this is the criteria basically that you used in making that evaluation Yeah I and I think well I was going to add sure what this doesn't reflect
especially in the numbers um and to your point that the numbers appear low uh is actually the county's liability So this doesn't what what all these roads uh represent is actually like what the county is uh responsible for Like so
anybody on one of these roads calls us um about any issue and we respond to it Um so just because they don't require a lot of annual maintenance on average doesn't mean that now anytime somebody calls we don't we don't go out and respond So I view these much more as
reducing the liability of um the overall liability of the highway department especially to pretty marginal roads that could wash out that could require repair that could require steaming culverts um that kind of thing So again you know
this is a lot of information but it's it doesn't actually tell that story either Um I think to to to your point too with and it's something we've talked about on and off I think at highway committee or you know random topics you know where could we look for savings in our budget
Um something I've always like right off the bat if somebody ever asked um I'd say calcium chloride So cutting roads is is one thing is far more complicated you know if if we're looking for immediate things you know it's it's that type of thing We spend a lot of money on that Um
I'm not denying that it's it's it's good for the roads Um but that's that's kind of a what do I want to say A cherry on top type of thing where that's a quick savings It's always it's always what we go It's it and it's a very quick savings It's a okay we don't do the contract done you know Um and so that you know
that's something and that's something that we actually in developing our chloride policy kind of was coming from that of we just kept spending spending spending spending on it and it's like okay we can't I can't keep up with this anymore This is insane Let's cap it And so you know that could be something um
you know when we talk savings uh off the top of my head I would say that and then I think this is another part of it Yeah And if you looked at at that from an expenditure standpoint relative to the road we're talking about that would be another element of savings that's
residual to to that element When the Forest Service says "We're going to no longer maintain these roads and in the in the past right they they used some criteria and they just said "We're going to close these roads down That's it We're just going to let them go back to
whatever vegetation." And so you know they had some criteria but then we had people saying "Wait a minute we rely you know or this or that the other." And so I think from the public standpoint if we're personally affected on that road
it's always difficult in the broader context of trying to be good stewards financially and look at where it makes sense to put our energies both dollars and time then a thoughtful process that supports that
That's that's commendable And uh and so I I think anything that we do especially when it comes to you know Commissioner Mill's point about cutting services we want to do that knowingly and empathetically but we have to be able to
manage stewardship of dollars and this demonstrates that So I appreciate the work Thanks Yeah it's it's kind of to Matt's point you know this is our whether you want to call it a a phase one or a tier one or this is the first look at really looking at the system in
depth and trying to say like okay what makes sense Um you know where where can we change things So yeah thank you for all of this you and Matt and digging around and getting the historical perspective of it too Appreciate it all So appreciate it Lots of things to think
about Yeah absolutely I think for us we'll move to the last thing I'll say is that Skyport Lane we can take off of here Um that seems to be a much bigger discussion and then um if there's anything else you guys think of you know
um maybe I'll I don't know May June I don't know if we want to move super forward with a board meeting to like make it official or we would need to digest for a month or two but you know things to think about Madam Chair I would just suggest that before it comes to us that one element about on the
legal side Oh yes Just we cover that Yes Yes Yes Yes And I think from a timing standpoint I don't know that it needs to distill I think we've had the discussion but I think that's before it comes from before the board We need to answer that question Good Thank you Thank you Thank
you Thank you Cool Okay Okay Thank you very much Appreciate it Mhm Our next topic the county fleet vehicle fleet And we have Brook Lassard who's
going to give us all the nitty-gritty facts of this um transportation issue So so if I could I'd like to maybe tee this up Um the last time I know this came before the board I was actually interim administrator Den It was in uh uh almost
exactly 5 years ago in March 2020 uh before we ended up kind of shutting everything down with CO and I uh had brought um to the board uh Enterprise to do a presentation And I think Jenny you
were on the board still and David was on the board Um to just do a presentation on turning our fleet over to more leased option like the sheriff's department had done Um it's very I thought you know was wellreceived and then the next week we
were shutting down the county and we had no idea what our funding was going to look like or if people were going to be able to pay taxes and it kind of went away So um what I I think you know the the state of our fleet is very much like the state
of some of our other capital It's you know there's been a lot of cans kicked down the road and um and so it it requires some attention and you know I think Brooke has really been looking at this and um we'll make sure this is this
information actually makes it to the agenda but I thought or to the to the um agenda online but I just wanted to say that this is something that's sort of like been in the works for as as I remember at least five years and and not
been really addressed in all that time So go for it Brooke Thank you Um so today's main purpose is just present the information and have a general discussion to inform decisions related to the meeting the the uh
vehicle fleet needs So our current situation is we have 17 vehicles maintained by by my department and in the last year that number fell to 14 One was totaled one died Uh one was
given to the airport for a courtesy vehicle Five of the oldest vehicles need to be replaced due to high mileage and age and significant maintenance issues that one of them we don't even drive anymore the the remaining
fleet What what we're proposing is the remaining fleet consists of nine vehicles ranging from 2010 to 2017 So we would get rid of our five oldest vehicles ranging from 1999
to 2009 would be the ones we would get rid of currently have 125,000 in the fleet fund used for maintenance gas and vehicle replacement Um past maintenance costs
are 41,000 in 2023 and 35,800 in 2024 And because of our aging vehicles and our high cost and maintenance our vehicle fund has been going in the wrong direction since about midco is what um Brady has let me know So currently last
year the our mileage reimbursement was 50,475 and our expense was $63,677 That's maintenance and gasoline fund So we lost $13,22 in the fund Um short-term needs
for the field season the assessor needs two vehicles land services two two vehicles and soil and water two vehicles as well And then all year all year including those six would be maintenance we use three Public health and HU
services one and then radio communication one as well So 11 vehicles needed on a daily basis during the field season Five of those are dedicated year round Restoring the fleet to 16 vehicles ensures the department needs are met and provides four vehicles available for
fleet pool for daily drivers Currently we're we're having a we'll get a reservation for a vehicle and we're kind of running around to departments and asking hey are you using your vehicle on this day Okay you are So we'll go to another department and see if we can borrow one of the other department
vehicles to get our needs met Um during the field season staff are often traveling on minimally maintained roads Other staff such as public health and human services are often traveling with clients over long distances Winter conditions are also considered in in the
vehicle choices So the current recommendation would be the get back to 16 vehicles nine from the existing fleet six um of the RAV 4 all-wheel drive SUVs and one newer used cargo van kind of
depending on what option we'd like to go with I like the Rav choice Yeah they're just a solid vehicle You know get our maintenance cost down as well I've driven them for years and it's like you can put two 300,000 miles on them Yeah
Not that you'd want to here but No No But we'd like to get our use out of them as well because vehicles are expensive Yes I I would also add that some of the cars that are left in in the in the fleet are more like you know like sedans
you know rear wheel drive sedans Yeah Yeah We've got so for winter driving or for like a road like Tom Lake Road or something you know these can be not the ideal cars Yeah A couple Chevy Impala would be on the list to get rid of Uh
Dodge Avenger and then a few of our older Ford Escapes Do you put different tires on like winter tires versus We don't or all season We just do one all season when we change out tires Yeah Yeah So we basically come down to three
options Um first option is what kind of we've been going through with the enterprise government leasing program Um and it's it's a leasing program but it's it's 7.49% interest rate for 60 months and
then it includes maintenance and that would be financing the vehicle the enterprise would like you to turn them over because then they have a higher value But in our situation up here in our low mileage we would basically just use it as financing and get maintenance for the first 5 years and then own the
vehicle outright and keep the vehicle for longer Um the lease for 5 years with a $6,000 payment at the end would be a $612 payment Lease for 5 years with zero payment at the end would be a
$695 payment and the lease with five years for the cargo van would be $150 a month with a zero payment at the end Um I consulted with a couple other counties They're all the one I got the most information for most like us would be
Lake County and they do the 5-year with a zero payment off at the end and then they just assess on a yearly basis He does it in in uh January and he just assesses mileage age you know what condition the
vehicle's in and then he determines how he's going to go about either getting rid of those vehicles or keeping them on Um the pros for that is it's the easy button for me I can just make a phone call and and we can get the vehicles
here We would at the end of 5 years we would own the vehicles They'd be wellmaintained These vehicles would be in the county fleet for another 5 to 10 years Then the uh cons of that would be the current vehicle fund would not be able to cover the leasing and car maintenance using the current funding
formula This choice will require additional funding to the 2026 budget Option two would be a buy and lease combination Buying vehicles provides some flexibility to shop for newer used vehicles and the monthly lease
commitment is less Cons would be the maintenance costs are not included So maintenance needs to be covered by the vehicle fund Adjustments to the vehicle fund again would also probably need to be taken And option number three is rental for the summer The pros you only pay
during the the busy rental season The cons are your investment does not build any equity So we would not own the vehicles We just turn them back over And it's a very expensive route to go as well It'd take a lot
of logistics issues because we'd have to go to Duth every time we need a vehicle bring the vehicles back to Duth So in summary this is an issue that must be addressed very soon Um we took it to the Matt team Everybody in the Matt team
is the ones pushing me to get these vehicles because they're I've taken some some are broken down some are old So we need at least two vehicles to meet the summer commitment for field work This minimal approach is inadequate due to the age of the current fleet fleet which
are often out due to maintenance issues So I just want to say that um it's uh I mean there's a very short-term need here to to get at least a few more vehicles and um if another one of these vehicles
ends up having a problem which they do then we're down again So we probably need to think about in the short term at least four vehicles but I think there's also a need maybe not today or not in this near thing but to start talking
about how we start replacing the the fleet and getting it more in an operational model so that we're never in the spot again And um you know I mean that's a that's certainly a process but I think um
hopefully you guys can start talking about the information you just saw but but I want you to really think about probably at the next board meeting or very soon after We're going to have to bring this to you and you have to make a decision about how you want to do this because the field season is upon us and
we have to know how we're going to do that So we're I'm already kind of lining up people to borrow vehicles from other departments that and pretty soon that's not even going to be adequate Right Right So so out of these choices uh what
would be your recommendation Well my recommendation I think for my standpoint I would like to I the cargo van is for us in the maintenance department so I could shop for that used Um I would like to do the
lease on the six RAV fours So kind of a hybrid option you know do the the lease on the RAV fours and then I could shop for a a used cargo van for us for our custodial needs Okay So speaking of
hybrid Um what's the have have you looked for hybrid and I'm going to say used hybrid RAV 4s I haven't looked Um I had them price out and we did an analysis on the
hybrids for the lease program and with the amount of miles we're putting on it doesn't quite it doesn't pay to for the additional cost to procure the vehicle We wouldn't the payback wouldn't wouldn't work out for us And then as we age out we don't know what the
maintenance is going to be like on those hybrid vehicles So that kind of unknown part we were just going to stick with their bulletproof inline four cylinder and their standard automatic transmission is a tried and true wellproven drivetrain Okay Mr Gamble
Yeah thank you Madam Chair Thanks Brook the uh I I guess what I what I would like to see and some of these numbers appear here but um if you if you track what our mileage consistently has been if we're
we're contributing to a fund at 70 cents per mile So if we look at we consider all all the options one option is that that staff use their car We're just going to say that is an option at 70 cents a mile if we look at what it is
because we're in effect paying that 70 cents a mile right now into a fund So it's either way you're going to get that calculation If you take a calculation of what our mileage typically is and you project that amount of money in the fund
and then you look at our option of leasing and what that cost including the maintenance and then you look at the option of buying and then our track maintenance costs and what that is that you could show how that all breaks out
just from a a number standpoint The other thing is that if you say well if we were to buy new and negotiate fleet prices and if we were to lease if we were to buy used with the used market being where it's at I don't think you're
going to get I mean I'm just going to say I don't think what kind of car we're looking for if we're looking at Toyotas and there's a reason why that makes sense Uh but I don't know if given we'd
have to really know where we're getting those cars and what we're going to get when it comes to the maintenance side of it So I I just don't want it to be a false reality you know by thinking we're saving money by buying the used given
the used market Yeah And I I I did price out some of the used ones and with the with the government purchasing program and then also Enterprise gets another $1,000 off I I'm actually currently getting a brand new vehicle for cheaper than one that's a couple years old with
20 to 30,000 miles Yeah And and that's just something that needs to be answered because it's a it's a question Why can't we And but but the thing that I'd like to see and maybe it's here just not in the format visually is that what is our funding based upon our mileage history
and is there anything that's going to change in that regard now either because mandated or something we've learned and so that that's a realistic figure relative to what's going into the fund at 70 cents a mile Now when you look at that funding and then you look at the
difference between outright purchase at government price anything else we can negotiate with a fleet price The other question that you raised is that if you look at lake and they say they've gone with this five-year and then you made the comment that we figure we can keep
those vehicles after we bought them an additional five years Did you ask that question of Lake as to what they do What they found through their experience as to that fiveyear projection of having at least at five have it another five So
basically a 10-year cycle Yeah And when I talk to the the facilities director at Lake that's when they they assess it on a vehicle by vehicle basis See what the what the value of it is So when they get the trade in back to Enterprise to see what that is compared to the problems
they've had and condition of the vehicle So they assess every January their entire fleet And then they go to Enterprise and order that October because you have to order by October to get even better pricing than we would get right now for because we're kind of
I need them sooner rather than later Yeah Um but when you do your order in October then you get the fleet pricing and they order exactly what you want and it's a better deal But they're keeping them anywhere from 5 to 10 to 12 years on some of them I guess I'd like to know
the difference in that pricing Meaning that if we dealt with the immediate and looked at the long-term in that October pricing range well the problem we're see we're going to end up with there is when I talked to our representative they're
anticipating a $6,000 per vehicle price increase coming sometime in mid July to August Yeah So we're also trying to get ahead of We're trying to I'm trying to get in there quick to get That makes sense Yeah But in the future understanding that
it's the time of year you buy and whatever Yeah Yeah October is when I mean once we get this set up and when we're looking at doing the next purchase we'll be ahead of the game We'll do our purchase in October They'll show up sometime miday April May is when you'd
get the vehicle So it's just a it's just a much longer process and the funding I obviously it would be ideal if the funding source covers the cost and you know I we'll we'll probably be short but
from like what Lake said he's like we we talked about our fleet and he's like you're going to see usage really go up once you get some nice vehicles in there because people will not be driving their own you know when I give them the option of of a 2009 Chevy Impala to go down to
St Peter with They're like "Well I'll just take my own car." Well not not only that but we've had u my understanding is we've had some of these older cars like people are driving to a conference where they've you know they've spent on a hotel or whatever The car breaks down
they don't get to the conference there's no ref There are other costs but some of these cars when you Impalas and Avengers and you nobody wants to drive those in the winter to Duth or to a meeting right And so having having a car that's more
worthy we'll probably see in the winter when those cars aren't needed for fieldwork be used more and that so that money comes back to support the fund rather than to you know go to employees you know Yeah I I think that narrative is
helpful in a presentation In other words I think when you make a final presentation that goes before a board that that that narrative is is helpful The other question which you probably explored is that if if we have usage you
know in the summer season whatever seasonal usage that when we're looking is it just rent by day or is there a sixmon lease of fleet or somehow there is yeah we can do
I mean it's a daily rate is what we quoted on here and just this morning enterprise got back to me and if we did do a three longer month lease Our lease payment would be depending on what exact vehicle cuz you can't pick your vehicle So depending on what exact vehicle we
got for a small all-wheel drive SUV we'd be looking at anywhere from like 1750 to,900 a month for that for that six-month lease So we're we'd end up paying more in those six months than we would for entire year than we'd end up
without any equity at all But that element as an option right in a flowchart Yeah Yeah It answered the question Yeah Exactly Yeah Yeah So what are you looking for then in terms of additional funding for the 26
budget Um if you're looking at monthly payments like you say of a thousand something Well if I mean the the expense would be if we if we went with the uh the lease our expense would be close to $63,000
Well that's with the van So yeah So if we if we drop the van it'd be we'd be down to like 62 $62,000 and that would be our annual expense And if we continue to only bring in 51 right Actually it would be 51 51
because the annual that's a monthly 1150 for the cargo van So that's going to be more like 12,000 Oh yeah Yeah So it'll be more like 51,000 51,000 So we'd still be I mean it could be
closer if you know if the mileage goes up You know I can't really project what the Lake County gentleman said He's like you're going to get a lot more usage out of these new vehicles I mean it could Yeah It's reasonable It's
reasonable to Yeah Yeah For sure For sure I mean last year even with this fleet the revenue received was 50,000 So I mean that still has to cover gas you know and other maintenance on the older vehicles but it's it's not a huge
gap I mean if you've got more usage that that amount could go up right and if it was 50 last year with maintenance if we're going with if we were to go with enterprise maintenance would be included on those six Right But I mean you still have the
maintenance on your older part of the fleet Oh yes Yes And you know then you need kind of a longterm strategy to keep rolling through the nine existing vehicles We still we still have higher maintenance costs and the I mean the two shops in town are pretty good about getting us in and getting this done But
for some of the bigger issues they sit down there for weeks at a time For me I think if if we if we could see those numbers underneath the options based upon realistic projections that would be good The other thing is is
you know as Reena has mentioned and you have alluded to is that we have an immediate need So we we need to address this in the context of immediate need not driving a
policy that affects negatively long term Right Right Okay And I really like the idea of the fact that there's a you know we need a replacement schedule We need to do this regularly so we're not ever in this bind
again Right I mean it really is you know as I look at it there's sort of like what what has to happen now you know maybe maybe the minimum now is like four vehicles that we need here because two just to meet the minimum and two that
are good in case two other ones end up in the shop right So there's kind of an immediate need to get through this season of four vehicles maybe So you start with a lease with that I don't know Maybe Or maybe it's four in a van Right Right You know and then beyond
that you kind of need to take the time I think and you know work with Brady on budget or you know where where the how this might work You know this is certainly we've kind of put this together quickly I I appreciate what you're saying about a spreadsheet but to
understand how we can address this in a rolling fashion over several years what does that take to finally get ourselves out of vehicles that are 26 years old Yeah But I and I think that the I mean to the extent with everything you
got on your plate it can be done if if we can look at in the in the in the broader context in making the short-term decision it'd be good if we can't realistically we don't want to tongue and cheek it but but I think that the the long-term policy based upon what we
know right now if we're looking at all of our options and some of them answer themselves but still to the public we're looking at all the options and then that informed decision says "This is what I think This is based upon other people's experience It's based upon our
experience Here's the numbers Here's our projections." And honestly we could look at maybe more funding given the fact that that people won't be using their cars We're paying them 77 cents a mile anyway and whatever but I think that
foundation would help inform you know policy and decision moving forward Okay Any other questions Commissioner this might just be a typo or whatever but what's this 35 Yeah
In the bold print the preferences where uh just above 125,000 in the current situation it's in bold that was just carried over last year's monthly maintenance cost Thank you
Yeah that's Yeah that's the that's how much is in the fund right now to start with Wait no no no The 125 is what's in the fund right now Oh and I think that is just a typo because it just it's the same number Yeah it's the same number as
what we what we spent last year for Yep for maintenance cost Maintenance cost Okay Yeah it's it's it's really interesting Um as you said in the intro um Reena um March five years ago we were talking about this and we were talking about I
guess uh maybe it was only a year before that and just what our options were Enterprise fleet was kind of more getting more and more used by more and more counties and really seemed like the way to go And then with the pandemic it's like okay so we have zero costs and
so then we're just like we can't we have nothing to work off of up here except for history and we don't know what's going to happen in the future especially with telework and just everything So it feels appropriate especially with the immediate need to to be going after this
now I really appreciate that work and um I think it would be really helpful to have everything in a in a spreadsheet lined out Um and also the historical costs more than last two years You know there's definitely going to be outliers there But I think that would just really
help us better understand the the bigger picture So and you could throw out the the co years Yeah Yeah There was a couple years there where it was Yeah Yeah Sorry wrote commission Madam chair I forgot the first one How did we ever
get in this situation to start with Because the school has like forever had planning ahead We're going to have to rotate The highway department does it They put money aside for why hasn't the count I mean probably
it's just a question probably nobody here actually has the answer what the thinking was why we didn't put a little bit aside I I think that's an interesting rhetorical question but I I think you could compare it to you know
the kicking the can down the road that has gone on buildings Yeah With the buildings And sometimes well can we postpone you know a boiler for another year or whatever And sooner or later you have to deal with it you know and so so
what maybe if we'd started back in 2020 we'd already have a fleet that you know we were doing this and it would be a very manageable and you get to the place where you know exactly how much money you're going to spend every year You know right now we don't know that
because of of the repair schedule So that causes us to but if you have these you know in a lease program where you have no extra maintenance costs now you know you've got gas costs with the fuel efficient things and you know you can
you can predict a little bit better right now it's pretty hard to predict It sounds like historically too that when before the vehicles got so old the vehicle fund would replenish itself and it would go up instead of down like we are and then they would use that money
to buy a vehicle here and there and and sell one I mean that's how it worked in the past from my understanding Right man And I think sooner rather than later later because of the tariffs and the
increases and it could Yeah could go away huh You know let's just think maybe about punch them in faster So let's Yeah No I've got some work to do to get this information put in in a more pedable spreadsheet and I'd like to come
to the next board meeting I mean I'd like to do it quickly Okay Yeah Thank you Madam Chair Does Lake County garage their vehicles Good question I didn't ask him that It'd be interesting because if our investments sits you know how we manage that but
it'd be an interesting The other thing is sometimes in the industry um you'll find that there's comparisons So let's just say what do you what do you figure that it cost you know for a
fleet in this region and I don't know that AMC has ever done anything in in a study like that but it would be interesting and and when I would do budgets I would use comparables relative to size of budget in similar
organizations region and nature of organization And I'd print those so that when somebody's looking at the budget they could say "Well how come you're spending this How come you're you know so many% under this in personnel or marketing or whatever it might be?" And
I think some of those things are just uh good if we had some statistical thing that would show in the Midwest this is typically and here's where we're at And it it's it's sort of a benchmark Yeah It's kind of like the construction cost where you we take duth costs plus 20%
Yeah You know because we just know and and just show it But it what it does is it it it's an accountability measure that is there that we're saying it there because it holds us to that at least that perspective of standard Yep And to
answer your question before um it kind of came back to me the Lake County is right next to the shop that maintenance that does all the maintenance on their vehicles and they actually park their vehicles behind that shop So they are just outside in a lot behind Okay Yeah
Well the next board meeting is next week so to give you time if you want to you know wait until the first one in May too Either way well we'll see I see what you did put together If you were to not get a decision till the second week in May would you be able
to get things in time Probably not because I probably won't be able to get anything till June I mean that's why I'd like to get it done That's why I've got some work to do for next next week's meeting Okay Yeah Okay Yeah I need them sooner rather than later That's I've kind of run out of time here Okay Okay
Anything else Do you have enough info now I think so I think so Great And maybe in that asked then and you I think you said it here This is my minimal but this is Yeah Exactly Yeah Yeah Going into the season this is what we could
and this is what what I'd like to do Yeah Yeah Yep Sounds good The only other question I have is just about the interest Yeah It's crazy It is And I was I I did talk to Mark Young down at the local bank and I'm waiting on an answer
for him to see if we could finance locally through him The only thing we don't get our maintenance included in that Um I think it's subsidized Yeah But the the nice thing is is that Toyota does give you a year or two of maintenance It's
just getting it down to Duth to a Toyota dealership then where the maintenance that's provided by Enterprise Our local shops can do it And because the county department because the sheriff's department already has Enterprise both of them are already signed up as
licensed enterprise mechanics So it's it is nice that we can do it locally all the maintenance that's included Right Did you happen to ask Lake or whomever you cried on this uh what their interest rate is It's well it's uh depending on when you signed up it
changes Yeah It would be interesting to know because I would use that respectfully as leverage Yeah Yeah Yeah My board is a little hesitant here given that the fact that so and so got whatever It's one of the bond rates plus a half a percentage point is what
they're what they're using So it it fluctuates with that I was just wondering if it was worthwhile looking at other options or even selfunding because yeah I don't know if it's worthwhile It was brought up to me to maybe check with Brady about bonding or something like that and that is not an
option from what Brady said Yeah I think one of the other options these numbers are with zero down payment is that you could use some of the existing fund and pay down those leases you know to begin
with and then your monthly payment would be less over that five years So it's another kind of an option there because we do have some money in there and we could adjust it also So we could we could make a down payment and then a balloon payment at the end where after your lease you've you've got a $6 to
$10,000 payment at the end of the lease I mean they they can set it up any way we want to set it up and then we'd be paying less interest on that That was what I was aiming for So otherwise I don't really care uh as far as you know whatever makes your your world work
They're they'll do it whichever way would work for us They'll they'll set everything Yeah To the point of the the maintenance being included through enterprise I mean could we pay him down to $1 and then still get the maintenance you know like how there's got to be a
maximum pay down that they allow or something Yeah I'll have to check on that Yeah just another thing to consider but nothing to die on And there's no other rental companies that are wanted There's a lot of them but they will not Most of them have a minimum of a 100 to
200 fleet Enterprise is the only one that will deal with us with our small fleet They are all interested in the big players that have giant fleets Yeah Yeah And that's something that uh you know like we've done in other areas where we uh we joined by maybe maybe we could in
the arrowhead uh look at our fleet and well that's what enterprise is actually uh am like enterprise is a business partner with AMC and so that's oh I see and that's why I mean if you were to buy these outright let's say fund them through the bank you would pay more for the vehicles Yeah you know so you're
getting a less interest rate you wouldn't get the maintenance and you pay more for the vehicles So we get this buying power of AMC and these government rates So I don't know Yeah His quote was significantly less than I I went through
the state site that Robbie provided me with and they have one Toyota dealership that handles all of them It's Burnsville Toyota And when I got pricing from him the enterprise pricing was about $2,000 per vehicle less than I could get them to through the state purchasing program I appreciate knowing that Yeah And have
you looked for um Toyota cargo vans No I have not I have not I don't think they make one but a Toyota cargo van four-wheel drive air conditioning surround sound Yeah Yeah Oh wait That's Mercedes Never mind Yeah
I mean we did it when we were looking at the I think with the corrections We we needed to have a four-wheel drive van And that's the the van I'm pricing again is all-wheel drive It's it's the all-wheel drive van Our van has some major leaking issues and is rear wheel
drive so nobody likes to drive it in the in the winter But then we we have issues with cardboard and garbage that we have to take care of very quickly then because it's out in the elements Yeah Okay Well if there's nothing else thank you so much Thank you madam I look
forward to all your facts and figures Thanks okay now we're going to hear about proposal changes to the Cook County zoning and subdivision ordinances with Neva Maxwell
So I I think I have this right Um Neva presented this to the planning commission on uh last Wednesday these changes Um and it was passed unanimously So you were going to see them next week anyway to do the board approval based on
that recommendation But um I got the chance to see this before I was actually in this position You had asked me to review it It's just outstanding work I just can't say enough of how lucky we are to have young talent like this here
Um and you know this is really the future leadership in this county as far as I'm concerned Um and so I really wanted you to have the opportunity to see it more in depth rather than just approve it So that's why we scheduled it for today and really appreciate you
being here Thank you Reena Just one real quick clarification So last week's presentation to the planning commission was justformational It was no public hearing This hasn't been public notice or anything like that So just procedurally where we're at is this is just the foundation of getting information out
there and explaining what these ideas are And then um after I'm meeting with you today tomorrow I'll meet with the H and give them an overview of this And I'm still talking and checking in with a couple more contractors get their take on it Um after I get all those all that
feedback I'm going to make some lastm minute little modifications before I send it out for public hearing and public notice because it'll be a very lengthy newspaper legal notice I want to be sure I get it accurate the first time Uh and then it will go before the planning commission at their May meeting
for the public hearing So people can come in and tell the planning commission what things they think about this and then the planning commission can make their recommendation and then it would come to you at the last meeting in May So that's just a clarification on where
where we're at So nobody is wondering if they missed something So it's still good though that it is We're working our way there So Jana if you want to put the presentation on and I'm totally okay if you want to pause me in the middle of
going over this with questions because this is dense This is like dense zoning stuff So it could maybe get denser You know I will say I have on one of these slides I think I say I'm trying to make it simple and that's hilarious but this is me
trying to make things simpler I just wanted to ask a question up front What was the impetus for this Uh it I've I've uh how to phrase this the right way I've heard that you can't buy a house in Cook County without plumbing water flushing
toilet for less than $300,000 So I figured maybe there's something that zoning can do to try to address our housing issues So this is all getting to the heart of housing So what what in our zoning scheme And again for anyone listening this is all of the area
outside of city limits I have nothing to do with inside city limit area So what can our county rural zoning do to try to see um a if there's other zoning practices we can use to try to get ahead of the zoning curve and I'll talk about
some of that in this and then b find our existing ordinances and how we can streamline those processes And I didn't really talk about the streamlining in this presentation but um what I have in the draft uh document is kind of
relocating in the platting process when we're expecting to see like an HOA document or when we want to see a full septic design Um recently we processed the Temperance Trails preliminary plot and that's a process that also needed a conditional use permit first because
it's a planned unit development and through that conditional use permit and then this the preliminary plat The contractor developer was never really ready to provide the septic details for the design and also the HOA So for both
of those processes I had been talking to you guys and the um planning commission and that you know the ordinance wants to see more information than this developer has but the developer is asking you to kind of approve this And so everything is hypothetical on that project right
now And you know if we're being lenient up to that stage the final check mark is before the final plat is approved They need to be able to provide a full septic design And really that's where the rubber meets the road If you say you can do this you're really going to have to
show up before the final plaque gets approved So I'm making adjustments in this ordinance amendment that would basically recognize that process we're already doing Like an HOA document they're not ready at preliminary plot with that much detail The developer just
gave us like a boilerplate one that was really useless for any form of review So it's just a waste of everyone's time in my opinion at that point So um so that's the when I talk about streamlining it might not be in this exact presentation but it is in the actual ordinance
changes I have for other types of subdivisions and platting processes So what I have for you today is a new mechanism that we haven't had in Cook County So these are I'm p primarily presenting on the residential open space
overlay district and I should start with what an overlay district is So an overlay district is where you keep the original zoning We're not changing anyone's zoning that it is right now It is essentially putting another zone district on top of that that adds um
maybe restrictions on uses or allows different things than what the original zoning would have We have one overlay district in Cook County That's the Wildwood Acres overlay district in Tafty So it's F3 zoning underneath and then it's the Wildwood Acres zoning over that
And so our office is used to using this type of mechanism but we haven't used it beyond that one pro part So that was more of a clarification of existing small lots So here we are Um my clicker
is going to work here in a minute I started it so well and then here Hold on Let me try closing it and reopening that Any questions about what an overlay district is Because if you don't get
that concept the rest of this might be kind of muck Okay Will that work No Let's try to while Janna is working on that Um the proposed changes affect both the subdivision ordinance and the zoning ordinance So the overlay district is
connected to the zoning ordinance that's all zoning based and that's where we regulate the uses that are allowed and that's in my mind a key part of my attempt to address affordable housing and then the subdivision is allowing that open space uh provision as an open
space subdivision which we already have is just modifying it Can it be tabbed like they used to do with slides when the presenter told the person to hit the tabep You mean when they just go like that Well it's the Can you It's the computer
right That's receiving the Can you just Yeah Can you just hit the You just tell her when you want her to Yeah Yeah Yeah She just touches the tab bar I think Can we call Janna Vanna Janna presentation
or maybe Jana White I'll just do it Okay I don't know why Thanks Janna All right Okay you can click it Beep Oh see Hopefully not It was just titles There
we go All right So two commissioners gamble points Why are we doing this So this is just kind of my current conditions sort of slide So Cook County is as many of us know and so we're all on the same page 9% private land ownership We have high
cost to develop land as I've been talking with private uh entities We're beginning septic systems for one home at $30,000 Another 20,000 to put in the private well You add in the driveway and the electric it gets to $60,000 pretty quickly just to get that infrastructure
in place Contractors are in high demand Affordable starter homes have a difficult time competing with those high-end second homes As I've spoken with a couple of contractors you know they've got a business to run and they can make more money building a really large vacation home So that's just the
market that we're in And so what can zoning do to try to compete with that Um so zone district patterns uh in Cook County they have a large minimum lot size in the rural areas And I'm being very conscientious with these proposals to not mess that up right I don't want
to mess up Cook County with this So how do we maintain our character in the rural areas and still try to address the housing issue And then uh one thing that's working on our side is that our current conditions are really lenient for a residential development Every residential lot in Cook County is
allowed to have one primary dwelling and one guest cabin per residential lot regardless if your lot is a conforming lot or whether it has more than the conforming lot size When I worked at a different county um they require double the minimum lot size in order to have a
second dwelling And if you were on Shorland you needed one and a half water frontage and the second dwelling had to be one and a half times set back from the setback standard It got very messy and it was a lot more difficult you know restrictive to be able to put up that second dwelling in Cook County When I
got here and I was like "Oh just you just get a second residential dwelling and there's no extra provisions needed." I was flabbergasted that it was so lenient and now I see why because we've got a lot of other things working against us as far as residential development goes and it makes sense So
um you know keep that in mind that when if someone's really worried about this is going to increase a lot of development we already allow two dwellings and a bunk house for every residential lot What this is going to allow is one dwelling per lot but one and a half times more lot density than
what you would have been allowed before So more in private ownership So so if I buy a I'm going to try to going to do an analogy I'm going going off the cart I hope you have time So I'm I have a lot and I'm allowed one dwelling and one
guest cabin Now instead of me hey well we'll get there We'll get to sizes We'll get to sizes But so it didn't matter before I could have mine and the second dwelling on my lot Maybe I rent it out to someone I Airbnb it Now I can sell it to Commissioner Mills and Commissioner
Mills can get a mortgage and do the lending stuff and own that second dense lot And you only get one dwelling per lot So we're not increasing like the residential lot potent like lot dwelling density but they could each be in separate ownership So don't think too
hard Just that's kind of the concept I'm playing with All right Uh so what can county zoning do to help city limits and help try to find solutions Uh Janet next slide please Um the purposes of all of this as Commissioner Gamble's question again is
why am I talking about this I want to encourage workforce housing in areas where we have existing infrastructure We need to preserve large tracks of land as open space So all of these subdivisions would require 50% of the original lot size to be undeveloped So if I have 40 acres and I'm looking to do this 20
acres are in open space and will never be developed And that's how we're trying to maintain that rural character of the area All the developments clustered closer together Um also I'm proposing to limit the uses So no short-term vacation rentals would be allowed in this overlay district And that's why the zoning
component is important We want to streamline the permitting processes and align the subdivision and zoning regulations to reduce administrative burdens So again the overlay district is our zoning uh mechanism for us to know in the land use office you know what
uses are allowable here So we actually kept track of this rather than just creating a plat and saying for this plat only you can't vacation rental We'll lose track of that with time So that's why the overlay district is important for that If you want to switch the slide Jana And then why these changes matter
We want to address housing shortages by creating more housing opportunities preserve our natural landscapes while allowing smart growth As you'll see in the future slides that 50% open space is a really helpful tool when we're thinking about the land itself Who knows
of 40 acres that are all high and dry with no wetlands no steep slopes no ledge rock I mean there's a couple of farm fields that have been drained and and then that's like it So the wetlands and the steep slopes and the lead rock and all those difficult things that develop around get put in the open space
so that the people that live on in this little community can go and traverse in there and enjoy that but we don't have to worry about avoiding wetlands because we've done that naturally with a lot development Um and then yeah preserving community character My hope is that um we wouldn't see the strongest push back
from the community because everybody wants housing and also this open space can hopefully give neighbors a nice buffer from the the dense housing Jana switch Thank you Um this is just the timeline I wanted this on the screen so anyone who is watching this presentation
online can um see see the details but you don't need to read that necessarily I just wanted to give a shout out Uh the the origins of this began when I met with Jason Hail our former H director between 2023 and 2024 to just talk about
zoning and housing and if there's something we're overlooking in our office I can try to be a solution or at least a a small part of helping at least Um so uh Director Hail and I former director Hail and I worked together and talked through a lot of different ideas and that worked me towards this uh
proposal here um between January and March of this year I've been kind of doing the soft uh reach out to different interest groups try to get their feedback or at least give them the opportunity when this was an initial thought so I could make any big changes pretty early in the process before I
just sent this out to everyone And then now we're kind of at step two I gave the planning commission presentation last week again you guys today and the HRE tomorrow Um and uh the land use attorney's been consulted to kind of get their feedback on this And then the next
stage stage three uh that I'm working my way into will be the public notice and then facilitating the public hearing and seeing really what the community thinks about that And then that will be a big gauge as to whether we need more time to work out some potential problems that get observed through this or to move forward and see if we can make this come
to a reality Janna do you want to switch So this is the open space subdivision illustration So on the right is where we have conventional subdivisions where you say minimum lot size is you know 5 acres
in the F3 zone district and nobody can create a lot less than 5 acres in size That's very easy I work with people all day every day on administrative subdivision applications Um the open space subdivision is where you're taking those sensitive land features such as
wetlands and bluffs and streams and you're putting those in the open space so you don't have to worry about developing around them And then you're clustering all the development together so that people can share the wetland or share the septic and the uh water the you know shared well shared septic Your
roads can be a lot less depending on the road design So a lot less money for the actual infrastructure to support those houses And yeah Cook County landscape wetlands bluffs steep slopes led rock outcroppings equal difficult to develop We have a lot of naturally occurring uh
barriers for easy development up here Jana thank you We have uh one one kind of nice go-to example of what this size lot that I'm proposing could look like So if anyone wants to take a drive up the mink ranch road in Luden and drive
around the culde-sac at the Woodland Foothills plot uh these lots are like at 23 to point4 acres in size Nobody ever complains about them Um you know they're there and it's it's a community that's
building out Um so these small lot sizes again are kind of the size examples I want people to think about when they're thinking what does a 0.25 25 acre lot even look like And this is a community shared septic system for this one Do you know the demographic of who
occupies those Yeah I I haven't double checked my data recently Um I had an earlier version of this where I I think I had like seven of those lots were homesteaded maybe Um that was how I was tracking that but I haven't checked it recently And who lives there are people
who work in the communities Yeah they're local people And the reason I I say it is that if you look at our wilderness and and somebody's out there and they're surrounded by trees or whatever they're isolated and the layover is is more like
the city where you have people in close proximity So I'm wondering locally with the mindset of I'm in the wilderness and surrounded by trees I'm not used to being able to look and see my neighbor's house right next door So the people that
occupy that if they get a job and this is affordable housing for them and they're used to that whereas up here when we're used to going out and our pajamas not worrying about it kind of thing Sure And so it makes a difference
based upon who the demographic is and what we see And if it's driven as you said in your comment about workforce housing then the affordable element is is more important to them just having housing and getting the job than it is
being isolated Absolutely Yeah Yeah I mean I look at my own demographic I'm in my 30s with a kid and we're trying to make it work up here I would never have been able to buy into this housing market if I hadn't bought and sold my home in Silver Bay You know that for us was a leg up to have the equity to buy
up here And I don't see that type of house here for my peers And so that's what I think you know I would I would live up in Woodland Foothills if that was the the option that was available to me So I I think I think at least the people trying to get housing anywhere uh
are going to be a little less picky And also this isn't intended to be uh this probably doesn't sound right but it's not intended to be attractive for the second home people in a way like yeah I want this to be limited in a way like this isn't like the dream home in Cook
County So that's in some ways this wasn't an attempt of making like the nicest version of lots This was how do we get housing in a way that might actually happen from my zoning perspective at least And I'm not a housing expert This is just my thoughts So um and this is just for you know as
we talk about the density stuff in the future this was you know 40 acres that big square up there up top Um there's 15 single you know family home potential on 40 acres So as you start seeing those numbers in in future slides as to how many losses can create 15 kind of sounds
alarming when you first hear it you know someone's going to get a notice in the paper say like 15 single family lots on 40 acres right next to me but nobody on this road knows that this housing is is really like there We don't hear about it So and then the last thing to point out
is halfway up Mink Ranch Road you're going to see a lot of rectangular lots That's what example of something that is just done through the administrative subdivision looks like It's really inefficient There's a ton of wetlands in the middle of all those rectangular lots So their actual building space on those
lots is very limited Whereas if they had adopted like an open space subdivision model it's a lot more efficient It just it takes more platting effort So and on that road up there there's to the right the turn lane which I think is pretty well developed but that's like a little
community in itself too A mixed group there Yeah The the other thing is in your propose with the visual you're giving us of the difference in the layout between the conventional and and this is that um I mean a developer is going to look
at and say this is conducive for this type of development because not everything has the perimeter having the wetlands and the problems so that it conven allows for the you know nestled development
so that what we're seeing is we're seeing things that are conducive for that type of layout Y but a developer is going to say this isn't really conducive for it because we're not going to be able to do that because we have to work around this
work around that So that the topography sort of dictates whether or not this is applicable Yeah It's very flexible too There's nothing that says all the lots need to be right next to each other Yeah you know if you got mostly wetlands but there's two parts dry on either side you know put half of half half over here Uh
it's it's a very flexible tool because the open space doesn't have to all be in one location necessarily Yeah Yeah And and I'm just getting to the point that it that uh the presentation isn't trying
to overlook that component by making it something that's very conducive because this piece works real well for that Mhm That that's my point And and to the point of flexibility Yeah It's it's something that's
considered in the proposal Yeah Yeah Janna thanks So this is again the main proposal is this residential open space overlay district And the key parts of it is that it's going to maintain Cook County character with a 50% open space
That's an ambitious statement but you know it's the goal uh allows the creation of and maybe maybe when I public notice this say two times greater residential parcels from zone district standards to be owned separately again this is trying to give builders the
leverage to make the numbers work when they're looking at these developments and so if they look at this what the ordinance is allowing and say I could get two times residential lots and then I can sell two times the residential lots okay it's going to be worth going through the platting and get the wetlands delineation and do all that
versus the really large second home somewhere else So that's that's kind of why I'm I'm maybe going to push it to two times and I'm open to feedback as we talk through this a little bit My original um thoughts were one and a half but I kind of like we're going to put all the work into this like kind of go
big or go home maybe is where I'm at at the moment but we'll see I'm not offended to feedback especially at this stage of the game Um one key part also is that I'm proposing this only in the FAR 2 and the FAR three zone districts Those are the zone districts that are right along the main road corridors So
you're not going to be messing with the FAR one which is where the dog kennels are I want to avoid land use conflicts where we can Um so these are going to be the ones right off the Gunflint and the Caribou and the Arrowhead Um and then and also it's the the it's 10 acre and
five correct current and fire one is 20 Yep Yeah that's a perfect point So FAR two is a 10acre minimum lot size area and FAR three is a 5acre minimum lot size area So this will naturally locate these closer to township county and
state roads And then it would be in nonshorland areas Uh I want to avoid conflict with the DNR if possible And if we were going to put this on lakeshore lots it would kind of defeat my whole purpose of affordability Um I got one caveat that you know let's allow public streams in the open space because
there's a lot of public water courses everywhere in this county and I'm trying to avoid where it's naturally prohibitive and then strictly regulate the land uses to residential uses only So as we talk about the actual overlay district it's very limited to what activities are allowed in this area and
that's that's an intentional effort to try to get the goal All right next one Jana So where could this be So again the orange is the FAR 2 That's where 10 acre minimum lot size is a county zoning map Sorry Um and then the yellow is the FAR
three This map does not show you the differences between public and private I could certainly have uh Kyle Oberg our GIS analyst put something together but with all the different versions of this I've avoided um taking up his time and energy until I had something a little bit more serious So future proposals
we'll have a an assist from MIS on that Well generally the private's where the colors are Yeah Yeah Mostly white is public for a lot of it Um and then Yeah So where is this applicable It really is a relatively small area Um a funny note
my first version of this proposed this only be considered within 5 miles of Lake Superior because I was trying to keep it like close to infrastructure and resources And then like the number of parcels it just seems so little I was like I don't need to add extra limitations to this I'm trying to keep
it straightforward So I think this this graphic is an important one because people in their imagination will take what you're telling them and imagine it but this lets them see Mhm So I appreciate you doing this because when I
reviewed the things before I was looking at it saying "Boy if I could see how where that would where we're basically having the opportunity to do this that's helpful Yeah Yeah And certainly when this moves forward for a public hearing I'll have assistance from MIS with
something much more specific." Y Janna thanks So this is what the density allowance could create And again this is talking in um parcels and acreage So if I can interpret this for you we've got two different zone districts examples A
through C are the FAR two which is the second column the minimum zone district lot size So in the FAR two zone district you could create a parcel only as small as 10 acres And then the last two rows far or FAR three examples with that five
acre minimum lot size Then you go over to the next column These are just examples So just take for example that you've got an 80 acre parcel in the far two zone district Standard density column So I'm at like the fourth one over now Would someone comes in they say I want to subdivide this They could
create up to eight parcels and it would take a little time but that could be done through the administrative subdivision process And then I'm calling it the Roso multiplier because it needs to be exciting Sorry this is so boring to other people but it's so fun to me Um you know I the original proposals was
one and a half times and so I'm I've told you earlier I'm thinking of bouncing that up to two to really try to do really what we can um to make this attract to the private sector Um but one and a half could get you up to 12 private parcels and those are single family homes So that that's what this
could result in And then if there's ever a decimal we just round up I don't care I'm not going to nitpick on that So Janna So the step one uh you know how would someone actually do this They would reszone to the overlay district and
through that process we would do a reszone public hearing So someone comes in and says I want to be in this overlay district Okay apply for a reasonzone and we'll see if that will work And that kind of gives the neighbors a heads up We see if it's really suitable If there's a dog kennel right next door we might think that might not be a great
location A lot of the FAR two is right next to FAR one where dog kennels are permitted So we have to kind of be thinking about that I was thinking about adding some language that kind of recognizes you might be next to rural uses in the purpose statement Um and then considerations would be talking
about if this is a good location for this type of thing Again public hearings And I think one important thing with the reszone is it gives developers an early thumbs up that this looks feasible They really need something to kind of work with if they're going to go through all the preliminary plotting effort Go ahead
Jenna And then this is the purpose statement I'm not going to read it to you because you're being very patient with me Um but you can feel free to read it in here And I'm constantly kind of tweaking and trying to fix this So this will be um associated with this This would be again in the zoning ordinance
as an overlay district So it's its own little special zone district area and it's just going to be in little pockets where it makes sense for the community and get if it works Next Jana And then I have an applicability So the applicability statement just says like
it you know if you're not going to actually go through with platting it then it's just going to default to FAR two and FAR three because the question I raised in my mind was what if someone reszones and they don't go all the way to platting So this is kind of the safety button of like okay you've been reszoned to this but if you haven't
actually platted it you're still far two or FAR three It's all kind of hypothetical at that point And then uh eligibility So this is kind of um you know if someone's wondering oo could this be next to me I think the eligibility is kind of where I'm saying this seems like good locations for this
So it's within a half a mile you know is half a mile good That's what I'm throwing out there of a state highway 61 a county or township road developments fully in nonshorland area Uh and within the non within the northshore management zone only on the non-lake side so nothing along Lake Spear which wouldn't
make sense anyway There's no far two or far three over there And uh and then the development zone far two or far three Um so what's the risk with meeting the plat Like what's the why why not just keep the the the
reasoning Why do you what's the what is that safety or what's what's the safety prevent You're asking why have I'll start over Yeah You said that um if it's applied for the roso and given Yep but then they
don't plot it Yep then it reverts Why that People don't go through with platting all the time Well so what's the what's the harm It's just making it really clear because if the harm is is that people would look at this all of this is intended to from
beginning to end be completed So if someone just zoned reszone just did the reszone but didn't do the platting the overlay district has uses that we wouldn't apply in normal FAR 2 or FAR 3 and lot sizes that we wouldn't normally have in FAR two or FAR three So if I
reszone my lot to Roso then I go to county and say I want a 0.25 acre parcel I'm going to do an administrative subdivision to do it It totally undermines the entire process So I'm trying to really be sure if if you get this benefit of this additional
density it's because you've gone through the work and you've made these asurances that things are being done right And also I'm just not smart enough to think through every everything that could happen So it's trying to be preventative of all the things we can't imagine happening And there's going to be things
that come up I don't know that other counties have really tied their zoning and subdivision ordinance like this before I haven't found a good example at least So we're trying to kind of create something new with this I think the criteria that's identified that answers
the questions is is critical and and it usually is in every situation Be sure that you've anticipated you understand and then you've written a framework that keeps it with what's intended so that you don't find out oh my goodness we
missed this and you said you know you're not smart enough contrary to what you are but uh the the fact is is that the public hearing involving people all of these things oh we didn't think about that or this or that the other Making sure that what we've identified is
applicable in every application that we get asked relative to this provision is is huge Yeah It's well thought out and there's good reasoning for it And so somebody says "Oh that's smart you did think that through so that's good Yeah we might tighten the language a little
bit more still Um just to make sure you know to try to give ourselves some safeguard so we're not creating some real zoning like they protect subjective interpretation Yeah Yeah Or like a maybe a time period I don't even know if it's feasible but
we've got time period allowances for different zoning decisions I don't think that would really work for a a reszone but me we'll get there So those are different things we're trying to think through with this Go ahead Jana And then the uses And as you'll see on the bottom
line regulating the uses is key to why an overlay district is being proposed in this process So the permitted uses I'm saying one single family dwelling per lot per parcel The duplex could be allowed when each unit is on a separate lot I've worked with people who have
come to our office wanting a duplex and I sent out a public notice and the neighbors were all up in arms about a duplex coming in next door And so I don't want to hear that with this because I think a duplex can be a really nice solution And I'm saying it per lot
because I'm envisioning you know you could combine the two platted lots to be one parcel and someone owns kind of a double lot as one parcel and you get a duplex on there and that can be a very affordable way to be living and renting So um I want that to be an option with
this home occupations So that's where you know you're living at home and you're working out of your house you're a tax person or accountant or something like that Um one accessory structure up to 1,000 square feet with or without the existence of a primary dwelling So um
you know that's kind of a difficult one but that's like you put you buy your lot it's vacant There's nothing there You put up your garage to store your toys and the stuff and you're living out of an RV while you build the house and that's why the RV is up there too So the accessory structure without the
existence of a dwelling and then the one RV those are tools that people we see people in our office trying to use as they're making those transitions to building out their development And then for conditional uses again the idea of a conditional use is that um it could work in the area It just needs conditions or
to see if it's suitable So these are things that might work with this idea Uh three to four family dwelling in a single structure U multiple family dwellings five or more units um G home business and guest cabin and number one and two there are really going to be key
for how the septic is designed and the lot sizes and it's just trying to be open to all the different things builders might say make sense for them So um you know I went into like a forplex once over in Luden I was like this is incredible Why aren't there more of these And like it's just not
affordable to like build it out Well maybe that will be affordable through the use of something like this So um and then prohibited uses is vacation rental home and a bunk house So again just trying to be really tight to what actually is feasible in this area And can you differentiate a little bit more
about home business versus home Yeah home business is where you're having people like come to the property So like I've got um I I I sell a thing out of my house that people are coming and picking up or or a hairdresser It's kind of a nice one People are constantly coming in
and out all the time So you get the traffic you maybe some signage that sort of thing It's kind of clear that there's something going on And then home occupation again is like you don't really have a public face It's like you're doing the work out of your house but um maybe like a woods someone doing woodworking in their house sort of thing
or something like that So there is a more formal definition zoning ordinance just for the record Yeah And another question just do you know how many bunk houses we have No Do we have bunk houses Yeah Oh yeah Okay Oh yeah Go up the gunflow trail
They're all over the place Yep Yeah Outside of No outside of people's cabins Yeah Yeah And just so people are listening so just the distinction there So we view primary dwelling and guest cabin There's really no difference Just
one was put out first one is like the main usage one and the guest cabin is the second dwelling We don't have size differences We don't have setback differences bunk house is a little different because it can't have any sanitary or kitchen facilities So no bathroom no kitchen It is it's really
intended to be like your screened in sleeping space that you're people stay at when they're visiting So and yeah So multiple beds is what I was thinking Yeah Isn't the barn uh with the taco place isn't that would that be considered a bunk house or is that not I
don't know that one well enough firsthand to answer I also never give on the spots Like when you what is it I don't say host hostel but hostile Hungry hippie hostel where you you know you can come in and you got multiple people Sure Yeah I think they might have gone through a cup if I remember the files
correctly But um yeah and then the size requirements again this is this is what would be in the zoning ordinance to connect it to the subdivision ordinance So minimum lot area of 0.25 And again I have a little note there The reason that's so small is to allow the cluster development So everything's close
together for the subject It's intentional to be that small The maximum lot area is 2 acres I threw that in there My thought is if I'm trying to take a stab at affordable development and you got to do like the comp study when you're buying your house how much you sell it for I don't want to have my little lot and then the next door
neighbor has like five acres and there's more exp I don't know I just I'm trying to keep it all on the same playing field Uh minimum lot width 75 ft Again that's kind of staged off of the Woodland Foothills dem uh dimensions lot line setbacks are pretty similar to the R1 or Lakeshore residential lot And then road
setbacks I have that highlighted because I'm still kind of tinkering with those numbers um to make them make a little bit more sense for builders And then maximum lot coverage of 30% Um and that's kind of a self-regulating sort of cap So if you have a lot that's 1 acre
only 30% or.3 acres could be like impervious surfaces your driveway the house the garage It naturally limits the size of the structures allowed And again that that is an intentional thing to try to um be scalable you know because this
is very flexible potentially Is bedrock calculated in there No it isn't There's some That's interesting isn't it It's supposed to be man-made but yeah there's definitely some lots where it's like this wasn't written with Cook County in mind on some of these definitions
All right go ahead Jana Uh and then so you got your reszone approved You're now in the overlay district The next steps would be platting And I'm not going to go into platting but I'm proposing the same mechanism we already have We already have an open space subdivision process That is a preliminary plat and
then a final plat Really the only difference is is that I'm saying you can get even more density than you would have been allowed before That makes it more um makes the numbers work for the contractors So be an open space subdivision follows standard preliminary plat processes and then a common
interest community would be needed if there's a shared septic and well to create an HOA to have that homeowners association have that legal responsibility for the shared utilities system And then it goes over to the final plat and before the final plat's issued that's where really the septic
design details need to get nailed down and the HOA agreement's nice and clear and electronic submitts uh can be used instead of paper submitts So we had we had costs for just development What are these costs in general Do you know I think it's all over the board I have no
clue Maybe when I talk with the H tomorrow they'll have better ideas but because I think that's worth Yeah talking about totally Yeah I I am an open book on feedback at this point because I don't want to be turning my wheels for no reason Go ahead Jana
Additional considerations So these are these are the things that are still kind of you know I want either more thought on or feedback or um just key points to keep in mind So the two times density maximum is being considered to help quoteunquote make the numbers work for
builders So kind of keep in mind and feel free to give me feedback if you think we're it's a good idea to move forward with a public hearing to you know put that idea out there for people's feedback um tentative provisions um to address wildland urban interface and site design and sustained
fire adapted community That's a new thought I that came to mind as I was on a long road trip across Wisconsin last weekend I was like "Huh I should probably think about that at this stage of the game." So I don't know what the answer is but that I'm open to ideas from folks about that because these are
going to be located out in the middle of the woods and you're adding a lot of infrastructure often one way in and out uh road So you know maybe trying to get some ideas about how we be preventative about where we're putting housing Um review the road setbacks uh language to
state that these developments may be located to adjacent allowed land uses in the FAR one zone district So dog kennels and forestry activities that are permitted uses in far one We don't want to be creating land use conflicts Uh and then open space requirement will maintain the character of Cook County
and avoid impacts to wetlands and streams And then again that overlay district it allows communication about stricter land use regulations So no vacation rentals or commercial activity You would look on the county zoning map If you're looking to buy one of these parcels you see it's in that overlay district You'd see in the zoning ordinance that it prohibits vacation
rental Be nice and clear to everyone rather than like being stuck in the back of the platting documents or something And then uh sight specific vetting through the reszone process rather than changing the whole zone district So and you know easier solution would be like let's just get rid of the 10 acre
minimum lot size for FAR two and make it all five acre minimum That's just like a really heavy-handed way to create a lot of problems So this is it's very sight specific And then the green light early in the process for developers again giving them kind of that nod that okay well let's let's move forward in this
and really make this work So a question on the language that states that they may be located next to loud land use uses Yeah Um if I'm a developer and I'm looking for location location location that may
be a may be a detriment Let's just say that if we found that we've used up all the quiet spaces and so we're only left with loud land uses then we're sort of that's that's our our choice I mean we
have no other option Mhm Given the fact that if I'm going to make an investment and I want to be able to have selling features value added it would be it would seem I don't know why that's necessarily in there In other words why we put that in there when we have the
option not to which is more attractive to the person says I don't want to be located next to dog kennel I think it's about setting realistic expectations So in the FAR one zone district again dog kennels are permitted use That's a property right to everyone at FR1 right And we can't foresee when someone buys
FAR one right next door to one of these developments and they're going to start up their dog kennel which they've got a right to do That's a changed condition Maybe they bought that land thinking it's going to be nice and quiet and then there's dog kennels next door I think it's right to give people a heads up that you know these these are located in
more rural areas That's the reason we don't have really tight density residential activity in the rural areas of Cook County is because we have so many we have lots and lots of loud things out in the rural areas of Cook County And so if we have a statement in there that sets reasonable expectations
and communicates that in advance when people come to our office and they complain say you're in the zone district It's it's like a stated thing in the zone district that there's sometimes going to be loud things next to you And that's the trade-off for affordable rural development So that's why I have
that thought in there of of trying to have something Yeah I I would agree with you from the standpoint it's good to be upfront So it's a known factor Um and because the provision is in the law in the ordinance we can't we can't control that Yeah And there's a lot of people
that obviously and you're aware of this that want to control what other people do but don't want those controls on them Yep And so I I would agree with that Just want to understand that Yeah Yeah Certainly There's a gentleman who called me once who was really upset about a neighbor's dog kennel Dog kennel's in
far one The neighbor bought land in far one He just didn't do his homework to see what was allowable in far one And so um you know try to try to avoid that where possible Also the design itself like open space subdivision you can put 15 acres of of land between you and that
next door private far one zone district So the site design can occur in a way to try to mitigate those impacts and be thoughtful about them That's things that decision makers and the project proposer should really be thinking about before they're putting 15 private lots right
next to a potential dog kennel lot in the future So I kind of like that sound at night though with their Well I stepped out last night and my ears were ringing because there was no sound anywhere at all And I don't know
how many hundreds are within earshot but not sound and it's usually like that Yeah So that's cool And this is my you know this is my ending slide I'm pretty darn sure So final thoughts for Cook County's future needs Um you know we've
we don't have what's a really thorough comprehensive plan for Cook County And that's something that I want to be yet and I want to work with the board in the future to really get a big community input really look at our challenges that we're going to have in the future and try to do what we can to get ahead of them That's a long arduous process and
I'm looking at trying to put something that we already kind of have some tools in place and get them going now while we work our way towards that comp plan because we do have we've got you know we've got an aging population and you know there's a big push to have people age in place age in your homes or age in
a home in your community So this could potentially create the home stock that that type of demographic would feel attracted to move into and still be near their family and friends affordable starter homes Again how do we how do we get that home that families can afford to get into up here We've got a lot of
remote workers so people can move up here and work remotely I don't see our population going downwards anytime soon And then you know how do we build community through this And I think this can be a really nice tool because you're clustering these homes together still out in the woods So if you're an aging person and you buy one of these homes you still have neighbors near you but
you're still living out in the woods You might not want to live in the city So um you know that's that's kind of the target that I want to sort of get to with some of this So thanks for being so patient with me Well thank you This is a good starter conversation Really appreciate And like you say you'll be
doing a PowerPoint later on for Yeah other details too as you progress Yes Yes Thank you Um yeah Thanks for the thought that goes into it Um did you reference a similar development in Wisconsin No I was just
driving through Wisconsin I had a lot of time and so I saw some smoke and fire That would be that would be one of my questions is uh so this concept uh new to us is not necessarily new to somebody else Open space subdivisions aren't new
That's in our subdivision ordinance and nobody really really takes a lot of advantage of them But it would be interesting to know how that how that has worked with what the intention is And one one specific in that is that
when I looked at this initially it's like this seems to be driven by contractors by developers I mean that was my first take on it because of the efficiencies in in cost savings It's a whole lot easier for me to do this than it is da da da da
But so the question is in the experience uh when you ask somebody that's done this elsewhere and they've had that lived experience has what we hoped for been realized or has the cost benefit been built into the
profitability That's the question Sure because uh one of the initial meetings we had in the county years ago on the housing issue was I think there's some real profit to be made here and and I raised my hand I said affordable housing
and profit are sort of in conflict It needs to be balanced So um I I would just say that if if we can see demonstrated that the cost savings are realized and it doesn't end up being a profit mechanism
then I think we've accomplished what we want to accomplish Yeah I think that's a really good point Um the profit mechanism that's why I have those uses sto so you know we could have approached this whole thing with just a very simple change to the open space subdivision just say two times open space
subdivision anywhere and that's it and increase the density with that But what kind of homes do you think would get built if we gave that provision to only those you know that broadly I don't think we'd be seeing the type of homes built that I'm trying to work us towards So um that's why I further complicated
it to add this overlay district And I know it's a lot to explain to people and and be sure people are understanding it But it is trying to hit to that to really give the developers a way I keep saying the words but make the numbers work Like I think people want housing up here but they want it in smart locations
I think if builders can sit down and look at a project and it they're going to make the same profit quote unquote by building out 15 residential lots as they would have with one you know second home I like to believe they're going to work their way towards that Yeah And I think the message that should be communicated
you because the calls that I get relative to this subject is oh my goodness we're going to create more density and smaller whatever and then we're going to just have more over you know overnight short-term rentals and all of this kind of stuff And so uh you
can understand why that mindset might exist but it's it's a matter of saying this is our intent and everything that is beneath that this is how we achieve that intent I think people will appreciate that So it leaves these those
concerns of oh my goodness Yeah When I really quickly if I add when I brought this forward to the planning commission last week a couple of things that they brought up Um one planning commission member wanted more flexibility in the consideration for vacation rentals in this area because they see it as a way
for someone to make money while they are living here So they're like well why don't we do like a guest cabin on the lot that can be vacation rental I really want to steer us away from that line of thinking because the more we you know be flex I if you want the second cabin you
know get get the C for the S cabin and rent it out long term You know you'll get some income doing that Um but you know trying to use this profit thing off of I just want one part in the county where someone can just live and not have to worry about being competitive with vacation rentals Not that vacation
rentals are the be all end all that are driving our housing things but I just want to take that off the table for this So I guess that's one thing I'd like to be purist about conventional better Uh and I find that graphic that you had of
the conventional um subdivision where you have the rectangles you have all of that and then you have the same space acreage but then you have all this green space And when you said you know uh your
numbers I think were really low when you were talking about the cost of a septic and a well and when with the well is if you get good water and then the uh um driveway and everything So you know you
can you can invest $100,000 before you get to and you don't have a house yet All you all you have is that infrastructure right So uh I think it's a great solution It would be good to find an example someplace that could be used to represent you know
here's here's an example and here's what they experienced to answer those questions that are you know concerns or the things the assumptions we make based upon reasonable you know uh analysis But I I think it'd be great to find a place where this has worked Sure Well if you
get a chance you can drive up Mick Ranch Road Y that's a development that's been going on for I'm really leaning on that people too And the builders we have a couple builders in the county that have been doing the building there You could
visit with them too So I've had a chance to go to Mink Ranch I actually looked at one of the homes for myself as a resident and one of the things I really appreciated is green space in front I could look out my back
window green space back there look off to the side green space It was incredible for having neighbors close by and um I just think this is a really great tool We've talked about it in the H for three years and I really commend
you for the work and kind of moving this vision forward Yeah Commission Mills Yeah The only um I I think it to everyone's I mean you I thought it was clear that vacation rentals will not be allowed but I think it's can't be overstated Right Also uh as I was
reviewing materials initially uh I was thinking much like you said oh this is just going to be everywhere three far two but it's upon application for it And I think that should really be um put right out in front It's not Yeah it's
not Well it's you have to apply right It's not just like oh I own FAR 3 and now it's in the overlay district No if I wanted to I could apply for it and then maybe it would if it meets the criteria You know not every lot will work right I
mean there's so much so many barriers with wetlands Wildwood Acres is another example That's been an ongoing project little places tucked off in the woods and you know developing um areas there that um it's a mix
There's some rentals and there's some people that actually live there and do things like Red Jarvis Yep And that is the overlay district I mentioned earlier Y Okay Okay Well we'll look forward to a
lot of more information and definitely you know the public hearing and getting the word out to everybody about this both uh maybe township area too that I encourage I'll be going to Luden tonight Okay So I'll just encourage people to put their antenna up Yeah This is coming
That sounds great Thank you so much Excellent Thank you Okay Okay So the rest of um the information um we have minutes of the standing committees of the airport the budget and facilities the building
committee highway advisory committee and personnel committees So when you have time make sure you read through that catch up with all that info And with that we are adjourned Thank you all Good stuff Yeah really I was telling everybody Skidum was a
builder up here He's done I think at least three homes I looked at the one of skillless very nice