everyone um Welcome to our committee the whole I feel like I'm echoing um to our work session um supporting community Through quality Public Service um we have an agenda here that we've been waiting a little bit for one of the guest speakers and they're not here
right now so we'll just move on but in the packet we have our minutes from our January meeting and then we also have minutes from the uh standing committees on information only from the airport advisory budget and facility advisory
building committee Highway advisory committee and Personnel committee for us to look over so joining us right now is H Bob Thompson who's going to fill us in on the Sawtooth Bluff master plan thank you uh Madam chair and
Commissioners so today I just have some information to share with you we will be bringing um this topic to a regular meeting sometime in the future but I wanted to sit down with you guys and see what kind of questions you might have regarding this topic and uh see if
there's any other information I can gather for you before you know we do take it to a regular meeting for some kind of a a resolution or decision to be made on this property so I did you know give kind of a brief summary I'm not sure if if any or all of you are
familiar with the you know John sheath property up near the Sawtooth Bluffs um I did you know a quick map check it looks like we have almost 600 acres up in the saw tooth Bluffs that is either you know city-owned or tax forfeit land
and obviously there was a Sawtooth Bluff master plan that was developed I don't know what year that was developed but it's been here you know since I've been here in 2016 um that plan includes a lot of recreational uses camping um you know
hiking trails biking trails some residential area and just a a a mix of uses I know land service is currently in the process of doing a survey on the Sawtooth Bluff master plan I'm not sure if you guys have seen that on the website but you
know they're asking some questions of the public I it sounds like they're getting a good response a good number of responses to that survey you know so that is also something you guys will be able to take a look at you know before making any kind of decisions on this but
what we're really trying to um hone in on is this John Chief property for the topic of the discussion today is um you know there there's a number of different ways that the county could approach this and you know one of them being is that the county could say
well you know we don't really have an interest in in doing anything with that John Chief property it doesn't you know affect our master plan it's it's aside from the master plan um John has brought up a lot of good points that um technically right now
uh through this this court document that was attached to the packet judge hanky has determined that there is a legal access um right to access the property through these old plats I think these were recorded in like 1901 or 1903 but
anything prior to 1903 didn't have to have a public dedication in order to become a public roadway now those roads were never developed up there but they are platted out and that plat is surveyed so according to the hanky ruling those those roads have been
dedicated to the public and Mr sheath would have a right to go in and develop that road right across the Sawtooth Bluff property question on back then when it was drafted what was the definition of a road as far as width in other words is there anything that's
problematic or is it just subjective and then whatever it is now that's would be customary based the day's definition of what road is you know I'm not sure that there is a a WID definition within those plats I don't even know if there's
measurements or you know survey increments or anything like that um so I don't that would that would probably get into more of a legal question of you know if if the road wasn't developed but it was technically considered to be dedicated to the public
to what extent does a developer have to you know what to what level of development do they have to meet is it a city standard or something along those lines I don't know if the county has a standard but you know those get into something that kind of is outside of my
um you know knowledge and expertise I can appreciate that but it's one of the questions should be asked when it says that it's identified that it's a road if it's not defined in the document then we should see what we can figure out what what what that look like
right and it is our understanding that you know if if sheath was to move ahead and and you know decided to start working on developing a road in there you know currently he would have to follow those streets and Alleyways that that are defined in the
plat there's a lot of challenges with the with elevation changes and side Hill cutting and and things like that but it is our understanding that they would have to be developed to a certain standard you know a water management storm water management plan engineered
uh what have to be developed so there certainly would be some expense for John involved if he was to follow you know the platted um roads that are existing uh in the legal documents John and his attorney have asked the county
to Grant a preferred access route which you know would probably have less impact on the Sawtooth Bluffs it actually follows an old I think Logging Road that hasn't been maintained in many years but there is a bit of a road that goes the majority
of the way into sheep's property I think there's another 100 or 200 ft that this Old Forest Road doesn't quite make it the whole way there so she has approached the county and and asked us and said you know rather than developing
this on those platted roadways would the county be willing to Grant an easement for a preferred access route that would be you know less challenging as as far far as the elevation changes and Contours of the land so there's a lot
going on here um right now if Mr sheath wanted to he could effectively you know get his engineered Road um plan and he could bring in the equipment and machinery and start making the road on the Sawtooth Bluff property so that's
where you know i' I've talked about this with row a little bit we've sat down with sheath um and and Chief's attorney Tyson Smith and and you know one of the ideas that we had started kicking around was and and this apparently had been discussed about a decade ago is
potentially doing a land swap with with sheath with some of our other County tax forfeit land now you know I don't know that we haven't pinned down any suggested properties you know obviously we do have some very valuable properties we have some less valuable properties
and you know the board can kind of determine if that's a route they want to go and another alternative would be to you you know outright purchase the property from Mr sheath um so John did provide an appraisal which was back in I think 2023
let me see if I have it in my notes did he use the same firm that the DNR used no good um John used a appraisal company out of duth and so it looks like you know they they had come up with I think a value of $500 ,000 but
that was assuming that a road was cut in so they had estimated expenses for that road to be $170 $180,000 somewhere in that ballpark so that brings the the value of the property as is down to about 330 according to the appraisal
that John Chief provided um I did take the appraisal and used all of the same adjustments that their appraiser used but just put in some more recent comparables we've actually had you know a couple of 40s and an 80 cell outside of the greater
Grand marray area and I think that the comparables that I used are a better representation of those large track sales uh we had an 80 acre parcel on County Road 7 or sorry Pike Lake Road right at the end of Pike Lake Road where it meets County Road 7 that sold for
300,000 that has electricity and Road and internet right there at the at the and it has legal access right off of a you know Road well developed veloped Road the sheath parcel is up on the Sawtooth Bluffs you know location wise
it might get some special views but the property out on Pike Lake Road also has views of Lake Superior I think it's comparison is is very close to the 80 acres that she phones so you know basically what I've developed is a is a quick comd like you would see at our
Board of appeal and Equalization meetings and using those comps that I suggested and the adjustments that his appra was using which was like a 5 or 10% based on you know acreage differences and things like that and then subtracting out the cost of the
road I came up with a value of 133 Asis closer to 130,000 um with the with no Road access currently as it sits and then you know my value if it did have Road access would be that 300,000 similar to the
sale on Pike Lake Road have you had that conversation with John so we just had a brief conversation he does know that number um he knows that number that I came up with obviously I wasn't speaking on behalf of the county of of you know if the county was interested in this parcel I don't know where that offer
would start I don't you know I don't know if it would require ordering an appraisal or if you guys would look at some of those numbers currently we have it assessed at 176,000 so our assessment is over what that comp grid came out to um you know
it's never been appealed we've never looked at it on a very specific specific basis but it just falls into those rates per acre that we have broken out for the different areas of the county and different neighborhoods so interestingly John did share with
me back in I think it was 2020 we were talking about potentially doing a a bit of a swap so what John was requesting is that we would give legal access across the Sawtooth Bluffs in an easement that we were told would never
be Dev veloped that it was only for the Minnesota Land Trust so that they had the legal right to access the property and in turn John would enroll the property into a conservation easement with the Minnesota Land Trust
they would compensate him they would cut him a check for his his rights to the land and then there would be remaining lights Jon would have remaining rights left over to the property but you know he would give up all the rights to develop it or sell it to a developer
and John was to be compensated for that by the land trust $94,000 so then John would deed the property and the remaining interests over to the county so it would be under County ownership now there were two concerns
that I'm aware of that I had a conversation with previous attorney Molly hickin um regarding one that that access easement was not a guarantee to never be developed it was it was said it was was verbally spoken but they weren't willing to put it into the document that
this was you know merely a a a matter of legal right to access the property that would never be developed that so that gave us a little bit of reservation and then the other part of it was you know I think part of that the conservation
eement allowed for like a campsite off of the superior hiking trail up there and it also said that the owner of the property would be responsible for you know removing any permitted structures removing trash that might be left behind by visitors to the property so it also
kind of created this obligation of Maintenance which we currently don't have on the property it's privately owned the county doesn't have an obligation to do those things so that whole discussion kind of stalled out and I think the Minnesota Land Trust has now
stepped away from the conversation and I think that they're only willing to re-engage if the county is willing to engage and pursue that Avenue I do think that is still an option on the table if the county was interested in acquiring this property with a conservation
easement at no cost uh it would it would probably still require granting that access easement which you know that brings up another question is now that the court has proven that JN has legal access you know why isn't the land trust
still interested now that they've gotten that component of legal access so that's interesting to me you know is why is the Minnesota land trust no longer engaging considering that the Court's determine there is legal access now you know another thing that
we haven't necessarily talked about between Rowan and I and um the attorney are you know we we the county does have the right we could abandon that plat which would basically say it's no longer a public road and John would no longer
have legal access he couldn't develop the road across the Sawtooth Bluffs but if John loses legal access to the property they can petition the courts for a cartway or an easement so then it may very well end up that it's
going along this preferred access route if the judge determines that that's the most feasible route however you cannot get a cartway across tax forfeit land so it would potentially have to go to a private land owner to Grant if was a
court-ordered cartway so there's there's a lot going on there and you know one of the options that um John Chief's that Tyson Smith had suggested was that the county could simply abandon those plats um or or what's the what's the
term for it uh vacate the plat so but I think that that kind of gives them another opportunity to go back to the judge and say hey we want this different route we want another route to the property because we no longer have legal access so there's a whole lot
going on there and and what I'm asking the board to kind of think about and and maybe come up with some questions that we need answered are you know is this 80 acre parcel is it integral to the
Sawtooth Bluff development I mean if if we're talking about developing a regional park recreational uses up there does the county have an interest in preventing this from potentially becoming a development of residential homes um is that something that the
county has an interest in in maintaining the control over what happens to this property if we if we walk away from the negotiation table with Mr sheath we were told that he would likely sell it to a developer and you know they they seem to
say that there were interested parties in the property um I'm not real familiar with the the zoning restrictions in that area but it is within the 2-mile buffer of the city which means the city has the
authority over the area and I'm not sure by the way that Tyson Smith had had discussed it they don't have to go through a whole subdivision process in that area because it falls under the city's jurisdiction so I'm not real
familiar maybe Land Services would be better to answer that question of you know I I do think there is still a minimum lot size you know standard but I don't think they have to go through the administrative subdivision process and get approval from the county because it's within that two- mile buffer of the
city so it sounds like it it is a property that would spark interest amongst developers because there's some less restrictive um zoning ordinances that that impact that
parcel so apologize yeah I'll just talk try to talk a little are you hearing it um I just had somebody that they were having a hard time hearing okay I understand I appreciate that so I apologize that this
is redundant for other Commissioners but what's John's objective well you know I guess I don't want to speak on behalf of John but I think John wants to move on from this investment I think John would either like to sell it to a developer or
somehow get it into the hands of the county but either path that JN is taking I think involves some financial compensation to John okay so I mean that's that's helpful to know what his objective is and and so it's basically it's a CT courtesy almost like a first
right of refusal and so he's coming to us and so we have to evaluate in the context of what our long range master plan plan is uh and so considerations are just the questions that need to be asked to Define that trying to be
responsible um and based upon the conversation sounds like if if we were to take this paral land if he goes with the conservation are we tied into that conservation if we take that we're
talking about the same parcel this it not a different parcel it's the same parcel um so if John were to enroll it into a conservation easement the conservation easement agreement that I read you know it included that management aspect of of
keeping it free of trash and keeping it free of unapproved um you know if somebody went up and built a a deer stand up there the county would have to potentially go remove it if the county were to accept that donation of the land with the remaining interest so the remaining interest is you know we're the
we're the we're the fee holder of the title of the property but there are all kinds of restrictive covenants on that property that you know it couldn't be developed or sold or things like that and so from our standpoint it sounds
like uh so John is saying that um here's a couple options you could buy it outright we could swap land um or I could get the money from putting in conservation and then
um we and then would he be satisfied with that or is he asking for us to pay to buy it with a reduced cost because it's put into land conserv so if if it my understanding is
if it goes into the the land trust or the nature if it goes into conservation eement it would be a no cost acquisition by the county he would he would effectively get compensated for that conservation easement and give any of the remaining rights over to the county
so right now there's tax being collected on this property correct based upon its classification and we would have to look at the ongoing cost and responsibility in the donated
scenario um as opposed to the outright purchase without that obligation so I mean we'd all have our Impressions relative to that scenario my recommendation would be that if you would be willing to is that you write
down every possible question from your perspective that you think we should ask and then we should consider you know what questions we might have and then from the long range plan standpoint how does that how does that
weigh in so if we look at it from every standpoint I mean the legal from the land use and from our master plan kind of thing and from the obligation from the cost I I I would say we should just look at all of the component parts and then ask
questions from the perspective of the component part and then we could make an informed decision okay and you know I mean if you if you pay close attention to that original Sawtooth Bluff master plan
which you know I don't know is the board going to review that are they going to want to modify that are they going to completely scrap it you know I don't know where the direction of the board might go on the the original saw too Bluff master plan but the conservation easement it it doesn't appear to
conflict with the Sawtooth Bluff master plan you know it would be an area of trails effectively maybe a campsite and you know there if the county develops a regional park up there there will certainly be some maintenance and management component that goes along
with it similar to if we were to get this property from Chief in a conservation E's you know it would it would effectively I think um it would jive with the existing use of the master plan adjacent with all those Trails up in the area so you know
if if if the county isn't concerned about the conservation eement and the language and the conservation eement that might be the the easiest path forward um but at the same time I I think that the county should ask the question of you know if this property
was developed in to a residential development does does that conflict with the Sawtooth Bluffs adjacent or does it conflict with County priorities I mean you know I don't know that right now if John Sells it to a developer it's probably not going to go the route of
affordable housing it's going to be a high-end development up there with very valuable Lots so you know that's not NE necessarily A County priority but it does add tax Bas you know there there would be um there would potentially be several Lots up there 10 Lots up there
maybe 20 lots that you know could be high-end homes and potentially with a view of Lake Superior I've never actually walked the property myself but I do think there would be a opportunity for some really nice residential development sites up there
um so you know those those are those are kind of the the main issues of does the county and and then if you look at it from a perspect perspective of what if the county was to try and purchase this property from sheath and control the
property without any incumbrances now the Sawtooth Bluff could also incorporate that and maybe you know if there is a a period of reviewing or modifying that Sawtooth Bluff master plan now this additional 80 acres could be incorporated so you know there's there's
a whole lot to consider and I think the the first question is does this 80 acres impact what we want to see happen on the Sawtooth Bluffs if there was a development of residential houses there would it have that negative impact and I
know you know from members of the community from what I've heard from past conversations on this topic is nobody wants development up there they don't want houses up there they don't want lights you know affecting the dark sky but at the same time you know we we also talk about we don't have a big tax base
we have 92% um public owned lands so you know there there's a lot going on in this conversation and it and it kind of talks to a lot of our core values of the the county um is as to what direction the
county wants to go on this one you know it it it would be I think the easiest path would be to engage the Minnesota Land Trust again and and potentially work out a scenario where the county gets that property for free you know the
remaining interest in it would seem to me from my perspective what I see it the easiest path would be a land swap because we wouldn't have the encumbrance that would come with the easement I mean with the you know conservation land
thing but when something's as unwieldly as this because there's so many factors I think I think that's why you have to put together um a framework to look at all these factors in the context of of the wha ifs and then you match that up
with with your values mhm and so a lot of times something happens you say you know we've been wanting to do this we want to do this this is the piece of the puzzle that pulls that all together you know so if that's the case then then consider that element of it but if it's
developed and we say boy we could get more tax beat that' be great but you're looking at it from that perspective and not inclusive of the other right the developer would be required to put the infrastructure on so that's not going to be burden on the
county um but I so I I would say that we just we look at it from this perspective this perspective this perspective and ask all the questions in that context and then see where it aligns MH so like
kind of giving a rundown of you know what's the cost to the county in these each scenario what's the benefit to the county in each scenario and what's the downside in each scenario um is there any kind of a buff I'm not sure is this located pretty much at the
top of the um development is there any kind of buer it's to the West it's to the west of the original Sawtooth Bluff master plan but as far as like the ridge line there I think it's kind of right there at the top and and right at the peak
there Madam chair yes there is also a property that's owned by a private citizen that's um directly south of the she property and um you know I don't know if there has been any engagement with that
property owner who lives in Arizona it's not developed but it would seem rather awkward just looking at it um from a geographic or spatial um sequence to think of that being in conservation or being
in uh a stage of development and not conversing with that property owner because it's they have 80 acres or excuse me 40 acres and it's all contiguous to saw too Bluffs so it seems like either we contain Sawtooth glov as
it is or we're considering an expansion and it would be basically 348 rehearsals that you'd be looking at to make that area all contiguous whether it be developed or whether it be part of a conservation need also the tax um impact
currently we get $290 a year from that parcel um I think it's 560 okay then it's gone up all right thank you oh you are correct it's actually 580 580 yeah I was
looking at half so it's 580 a year um so we need to consider that um and then we also need to think about um potential changes in zoning ordinance which are being proposed by Land Services and how
that would impact the property um I know it's a great place for high-end homes a developer may look at that but it's also potentially a place where we could have um communities of affordable Workforce housing um in that
area so that's something to consider yeah back and forth too bad we don't have another oneth yeah thank you madam chair so that's a that's a good point commissioner Sullivan I think that from
a community standpoint I'm just saying this is how you cultivate Community that's one of the things that should be noted it would be a courtesy to contact that land ughter and just say we're we're looking at this any any thoughts just so we have that as part of the
piece of the puzzle I think that's a question should be asked um the other um oh let's see that that was the primary but there was something that you were oh yeah when it comes to the the workforce
housing or whatever I think when you're city planners and you're looking at land you look at what's the optimal use for this land that land is probably not the optimal use then this comes back to the revenue that could be generated given
the fact we're 92% so if if we choose to go a direction we we would we would want to consider that in the context of what's the greatest return given the fact that if it's Prime you know Prime land uh for the nature you couldn't build some housing that would command
the price that it does elsewhere so it's just something that I'm it it would be within a five mile range of the city of grandar could potentially be divided sure yeah two per person and it and it everything everything should be thrown
out there and and looked in that context of awareness that's that's what I colleting all the questions and and looking at all of this is including refreshing my memory on that map too I mean I came in just when the this was starting to talk about the
Bluffs and I think commissioner Mills you've been with them a lot longer than I was you have any thoughts on this um thank you chair I um yeah this property has been talked about for a long time and kind of back and
forth and back and forth and out and in um it's it's always been considered for the plan um certainly any development or non-development would impact the rest of the land to what
extent I think that's probably debatable um if there are I mean if there are homes up there I don't think it would wreck the rest of the the park but um I am skeptical that
it could be uh Workforce housing considering the cost of development just to get there um and then the infrastructure City utilities are a long ways away um not that we shouldn't consider that it's just it really does
seem impractical so it seems like it would be more high-end uh housing and um you know you have to draw your lines for say a regional park somewhere um but it my instinct is that would be best suited as part of the park and I I think I
agree with commissioner gamble with a land swap seems to be the easiest cleanest as far as a conservation easement is concerned you can um have uh you know kind of parks and trails uh development included I believe in a
conservation eement so even though there would be encumbrances um if a cons if it was put into conservation easement it could those encumbrances could be this very similar to what the rest of the regional potential Regional Park um
would be as well so there is there could be it could go a bad way or a way we don't want rather with the conservation off uh easement or it could go in a very congruous uh way with the rest of the the land so um
and just for the public yeah mam chair I would think that um an awareness that there's Sawtooth Bluffs to the east there's 240 acres there but there's also land to the North and the west and the
South that's owned by the US Forest Service um so that is something to consider chair saves money keep passing around um so one of the questions should
be we should understand the um restrictions or provisions of the conservation easement we should understand that so that we're not making an assumption and because obviously this is a working discussion so anything that
comes up we'll we'll put down there and we have we can have opinions on it but it'll be assessed thoroughly and so we just more we can get on the table the better it is not to make it so that's so unwieldly it's hard to digest but I
think we can we can put things in a in a place that helps us to make an informed disciplin decision but one of them should be understand Provisions or not relative to if they'd fit in with what we would hope to do so it isn't a surprise because we've been shortsighted
in the process Madam chair I I think that you know part of part of when I came into this conversation I was thinking in my head you know there there is residential uses incorporated into saw tooth Bluffs in
fact where the apartment is going up right now is part of that Sawtooth Bluff master plan and there was another area carved out on the kind of well it would be near where the dog park is right now now if you kind of think about it if if
whether it's through purchase or conservation easement and acquiring the land for free if we had an additional 80 acres on the west end of it and the Northwest end of it does that now maybe change something closer to the utilities that are available on the south side of the hill where the residential
development was originally planned and maybe expanding that by a certain amount so you could still you know acquire the sheath property one way or another and have that incorporate more residential into
the tooth Bluffs and you know and then moving some of those parks and trails or you know recreational uses up onto the top of the hill where the bluff where the sheath property is so you know that's that's also another way of looking at it is that this is potentially adding 80 acres into the saw
tooth Pluff plan so you know then does that change the way that that map gets drawn up or cuz you know in my opinion it would be easier to do Residential development where the apartment down by where the apartment are versus up at the top of the hill you know especially if
you're looking at you know doing a county subsidized type you know affordable housing small Lots types things like that um I did get you know just a message from Neva saying that this property is within the city's uh zoning restrictions so it would be
totally up to the city so you mentioned that the property would be assessed at 176,000 it was in 24 was assist at 176 okay and what would it be purchased for well that's up to Mr sheath and the
board um I did put a comp grid together and my comp grid came up with a value of 1285 now that that determines a value of 2995 less 171,000 for the road and electrical
infrastructure that was estimated by John Chief's appraisal I didn't develop that estimate used what they had cuz it's it's not as easy to argue with the numbers you provided so I think we were looking at
this back in right yeah and and I think that where we will where we ran into issues on this in the land swap was that trying to match it you know apples for apples and
it it was consistently something where we were feeling that no that isn't really I mean it'd be very nice but it's it's not realistic and we have Financial stewardship responsi the land that we do control so we have to make sure that
it's it's fair in that regard but um here again I mean if we look at the parcels in the context of our perspective that we'd be willing to put out there not that this hasn't been done for years and years and years then that's that's what goes on the table
based Upon Our assessment and John has the right to you know accept or refuse but it it's it's a lot of things to pull together but there are puzzles that are huge pieces and there's 25 for people that want to do it quickly and there are
puzzles that'll take you six months to do uh because they're very complicated but but I think it's a good discussion just identifying all the things we need to be mindful of so so Madam chair would it be appropriate to maybe bring this back in March
sometime um you know I I will have another conversation with Mr sheath and you know I will pull up that old conservation he I don't know that that would the language of it would change you know certainly I can have Mr sheath reach out to the Minnesota land trust
and see if they would still engage from what I understand is if the county is interested in going down that route the land trust will would re-engage um so I can bring you know that that scenario or I can bring any number of scenarios and again if it
comes down to you know maybe the county wants to make John an offer that's going to be up to the County Board to take you know this information that I've provided and and to make an offer I mean I don't know how how often the county is buying private land
from a land owner and and making that land now become public so I don't think that's very common but I think it has it has happened in the county so maybe bringing the three different scenarios and kind of doing a analysis of you know
what is the financial cost to the county to do a b or c and what do I see as some of those pros and cons of of each scenario would we like Mr sheath to be present at the next meeting so that there can be a back and forth dialogue
couple of things one is in answer to your question my my opinion or recommendation would be that we would be more informed before we have that discussion so we have a better perspective then that then our dialogue would be informed um you can get off track if if
you don't know what you're talking about so to speak the other thing I think that's important to to um to emphasize is is that we appreciate the fact that there is an ongoing dialogue and that there's a willingness to try to come out
to a win-win situation and I think that's really important to underscore that and so while it might get uncomfortable you know everybody protecting their their interest I I think it's just good to underscore that that we're focused on trying to find a win-win situation we have ultimate
responsibility from the stewardship of you know what's best for the public and I think John's indicated that he's mindful of that that's why he's trying to work on on something so it need to establish and and reaffirm the foundational basis under which the
discussion happens which is we appreciate the fact that we can have this discussion that he's willing to do that so so I'm hearing that we'd like some scenarios and some Associated Financial impacts back to the board in March and
then at that time we can take a look at having a another follow-up conversation potentially with Mr sheath okay okay and who do we know is going to handle what in giving that information because we identified some things that it's going to be in the
minutes but we identified so we' got R Points in that who's going to do what I I I can put together like a pros and cons AB andc option um should we do this at another Committee of the whole then because it's going to be more or less just
conversation okay and then understanding what the conservation yes fully understanding the conservation The Way It Was Written in the past and then you know I'll touch base with Mr sheath and just see you know do do do does he anticipate that there would be any changes to that
conservation he's been given the time that's gone by I don't know that there would I think that their interests are to just protect it from development and then there was some very specific acceptable uses written in such as like hiking trails bike trails a campsite
things like that and I think the campsite I think it even said that that would be part of the superior hiking trails management but we'll we'll look at that closer and I can bring I can even bring a copy of the the old conservation ement agreement
the other thing to the extent we can Define what a road means yeah and um yeah so also further context regarding the master plan sat BL master plan um so in our in our 2025 budget we set aside money to be able to do more of
that planning and that's part of that Outreach um the community outreach um the reason that that money was needed to be set aside is because um it has been deemed uh a high potential for regional
uh Park um but in order to be designated as a regional park and to qualify for that Legacy funding um it needs to have uh more of uh more information in a master plan than what our current master plan has and so that's what that money
is going to be going towards now if um uh it is deemed a regional um park there is money um I believe to purchase property as well so that's just something to consider um I am skeptical
how quickly this would happen as far as if it is designated um it's a long and and tedious process that the city has more experience with but is is has great success with as well um but I just want to put that out there and um I I'm not
I'm sure John doesn't want to sit around it's already been a very long process looks like he purchased in 2005 um but just that there could be options down the road that would have if we did go to purchasing route that would have
you know not as great an impact on our our uh Levy finances um but again I think from my perspective it the the land is most congruous with a regional park uh land swap seems to be like a good option but I think the conservation
e easement could really fit well so appreciate any any further information we can get but just wanted to add that potential funding option so Madam chair commission Mills so do you want to find out about the particulars on that on
what on on the Legacy funds or if it can be yeah yeah I'm sure yeah I mean if we just had the parameters of that I mean it's another piece of the puzzle but it's yeah no I'll just reach out to Mitch Travis he's involved with and then the other is who would
contact the adjacent land owner it'd be nice just to know absolutely their thoughts going into this next meeting yeah it seems you know whatever happens with that property suddenly there's going to be a 40 acre parcel below it that's sitting out there that doesn't
fit yeah it it it would be carved out by part of the Sawtooth Bluffs on tu sides and then federal land on another side and then private to the South so yeah I mean it kind of does create an an island of private land within the the public use lands so I can certainly I can reach
out I just don't know what what is the question that I would be I don't know it's a question but you know maybe we want to make you aware that there's consideration of the property that's North to you to change hands in potential in potentially the following
ways a lands swap conservation okay we we've been approached and so because you your land borders on this land is affected we would like your thoughts MH yeah
okay anything else Bob I I think that covers it um I don't think I have any questions for you guys I you know I certainly will be back in March with a little bit more information on the three scenarios uh we'll have the the survey
results from the Sawtooth Bluff survey that's going on right now from Land Services and I think we'll have um you know a little bit more to talk about next time with looking at the conservation easement and things like that reach out if you would think you
need any more ideas or yeah and I I mean if anybody has a thought I mean I think it's L acceptable shoot me an email and I can if if you have a thought that you think we should address at the next meeting shoot me an email okay uh I was just going to ask do we know when
there's not a date listed for a transaction on a parcel report what is what does that mean it's Prett far of a sale yeah yeah it would be probably pre2 2006 I know some of them are older than 2006 in our computer but that just means somebody manually entered it in there so
it it we would have to go to the recorders to see when the Deeds were recorded and that that case I would just ask that if we're comfortable identifying the issues that we addressed and so and we know you know who's going to follow up in providing
the information so we get to that next meeting we've got a lot to chew on so to speak yeah if it's if it's identified in the minutes almost like bullet points that you have so we know what we're looking at yeah I've got some good notes
here on on what to bring back as far as you know pros and cons of the of the two or three different scenarios land swap the purchase or the conservation he's been acquisition and and they all have pros and cons so I can go through and start generating those
lists appreciate it okay thank you anything else thanks so much for coming y thank you all look forward to March sounds good yes so our last item is to um get in touch with Pat I can uh actually do a call with Sheriff Eliason if that works
for you okay before that yes there's two PS there are two PS two pets hello hey good morning hey guys sorry sorry I can't be there in person that's all right uh we uh we got
your agenda item queued up and I got microphone next to me so should be should be good to go okay would you uh how how would you like to do it would you like to begin the convers yeah yeah if you just want to frame up the the
decision and the considerations that uh and and a little bit about the process myself and uh County attorney Peterson are here as well to to kind of talk through that but um yeah if you want to just sum up the the need and the the next steps as
you see it I think that'd be helpful information for the board hey looks like you're on mute Pat we can't hear you if you're trying to talk I still got you on mute here yeah I was letting Rowan talk sorry
I'm getting some massive uh massive echo on my end here so not hello yep we can hear you all right so yes um the body cam um program that we want
to yeah this is going to be this is going to be tough to do oh he hung up let's go like this if he just talk well we could do that I just need to I need to mute my end I think and then you can hold the phone to the
mic yeah hello hey sorry about that Pat I'll I'll mute my mic here and you should be good to go you want give it a try again yeah absolutely um is that is that better for everybody yep we can hear you good okay
um so yeah I I'll just jump back into it then the uh the body cam program we want to implement with the sheriff's offices that's the same spot as last time maybe tell him to start from that point
onment there's a blip there just jump over we're waiting do we have is he better on the phone place now no yeah yep we can hear you no and okay perfect I think it was on my end I think I I had the the live feed up so I was getting
some uh some Echo there oh yeah yep yeah the body cam program we'll start this again um want to implement with the Sheriff's Office of course um it's it's really no different than any other body camera body warn camera from uh any
other law enforcement agency in the state of Minnesota um we have the policy we have the the protocols we have everything because most of it is dictated by Steve statute done by the post board so there's not a whole lot of you know free freelancing anywhere with
it and uh it's pretty pretty guided a pretty rigid rigid program uh as far as how you use the body cameras can be a little uh dependent upon uh individual agencies um I know like like Minneapolis PD I
think they turn theirs on at the beginning of their shift and they don't turn it off until they end their shift um other other agencies you activate your body camera whenever you have contact with somebody from the public whether it's uh you know just if
speaking with them officially or even unofficially if if you have contact with somebody from the public you uh you activate your body camera so um obviously there's a cost associated with this um it's it's it's not as significant as I thought it was going to be and we do have money in our
budget uh set aside for things like this in our in our technology fund and that is oh let me find it here under 200 I think 6640 but I just want to make sure
here it's a it's a technology uh fund that we had set aside for us and we keep adding to it each year for these purposes for any technology whether it's body cameras or um if we have to uh upgrade anything in
in dispatch um our our records management system anything like that so we it's not an added expense to the uh to the budget here we are it's uh under 26640 it's called
technology equipment um so that is where the money would be coming from as far as a policy I think I think I gave or I forwarded the policy to uh to Rowan and I'm sure he deated to the rest of the uh the board um so yeah so that's that's
basically the uh the long and the short of it it's I would probably entertain questions that anybody has right now sounds good any questions for Sheriff Elias thank you madam chair hi Pat I didn't know if I was coming in on this after there's been
much discussion on this it looked like when I looked at the document that Rowan had forwarded that it was just up for revision and we were editing it to make changes in compliance with the program we already had in place but I guess that's not the case um so I I just
quickly did uh a little research on this and um uh the uh the cons and the argument in the research that I looked at said police body cameras are unreliable and too expensive for many police departments and a lot of them uh that
were employed were with departments or communities that you know had a population it was a million uh many police departments especially smaller departments with smaller budgets have suspended bodyw warn camera programs citing Rising costs of the cameras maintenance of the programs employees
and data storage and as the cameras uh supporting equipment and netw Worth age costs will only rise to maintain and replace equipment and they cited some costs uh initial that uh in communities what they were
and what they are right now so um I I guess you know this is early in the in the process certainly for me in evaluating this as to its benefits for our community relative to the costs based upon other
programs especially smaller communities and what it what it takes to support it if it's a situation where we have Grant monies and agencies believe that this is beneficial and so they're going to fund it for us
then uh it's value added but uh if it ends up adding additional costs that we have to pick up in order to pay for it then I guess that would be my concern just you know off the get-go thank you yeah that's that's a very
understandable um it's it's we have considered that as well the ongoing cost of any any programs specifically technology um seem to be rising and uh there's not a whole lot we can do about that unfortunately I think especially in public safety I think we've painted
ourselves into a corner with technology because without it we uh we have a difficult time operating now so it's it's one of the uh I guess for lack of a better term it's one of the necessary evils that we uh that we need to uh to
compete with in uh in public safety um so yeah I I get that commissioner white um yes Pat um not being an active uh actively involved with law
enforcement uh is there any um obviously there must be a need it has been determined by your department that that Cook County Sheriff department
needs to have these cameras because could you fill in the blank I mean for what reasons what are we not being able to do now that we will be able to better um provide safety for our community if we
have these cameras sure um I I guess the the two terms that I would use would be transparency and accountability it increases both both of those factors for the public um especially when they're when they're having contact with the
sheriff's office we uh believe it or not we do uh we do receive complaints against deputies at at times and uh having body cameras especially would uh go a long way to dispelling any any frivolous complaints we have against
staff um the other benefit is um when somebody's working a a case um that body cameras going when they're taking statements or or just having General conversations with with Witnesses or victims um you can go back and review that footage and
maybe add something to your to your report that that you had forgotten during the conversation um so it's it's it's you can use it as an investigative tool but it's it's a lot of it is like I said it's transparency and accountability yes I'm sorry can if if I
can I would just add one piece to your response sheriff and that's that the time that the county attorney's office takes to get to trial sometimes can be as quickly as we try to move the court process can be a year or two years even
can be longer so we're relying on the deputies who have had hundreds of interactions with people since that original underlying encounter um to remember what happened in that incident and to communicate that in the same
manner that the jury interprets it um at a jury trial additionally when the deputies have that original encounter and they have to go write a report they may be at the end of their very long shift anyhow and then they're were're asking them to write a report because we
need that the next morning to deal with the in custody and make recommendations to the court so to have that recording would be I would say a value to both the sh Sheriff's Office and to the county attorney's office as far as um going
back we certainly trust the depuy's um interpretations of what they they put in their reports um but everyone's human and everyone's tired and people use language differently thank you so um Pat you we
were discussing the cost so technology is going to enter into this so the purchase of these um body cams come at a price right now do you forecast any updating within 5
years four years what kind of updating then are you looking at in the cost um yes there there will be definitely will be updates to software and and to the equipment itself um I think I think the uh end of life on something like this is right around five
years um as far as cost I don't know I really don't know they first came out several years ago the uh the cost to update them then you know at the end of their life and at the end of the the software life was uh it was significant
I mean it wasn't but what you do and what we will do now because we have this technology fund basically that we put money into every year and it rolls over um that will be used to um to to to fund
any replacement for for equipment or software anything like that so we we have taken into account the ongoing cost of a program like this okay thank you anybody else so I had an opportunity to review
some other County policies in Minnesota I looked at otter taale I looked at Sherburn there's quite a a lengthy list of um counties and also cities and Sheriff departments that have these policies and um I looked at some of the
significant findings in the field and just wanted to share those with the group so it documents Citizen and officer Behavior which Sheriff Eliason already alluded to and captures evidence for court proceedings like
attorney Peterson shared um they also have found in the studies it reduces the need for use of force it reduces citizen complaints complaints that do occur are easier to resolve it validates an officer's actions what he or she is is
doing on the job it can cap capture poor Behavior which can then be corrected or help to identify training needs that an individual or Department might have so I just wanted to share those results and the the research that I
did I also had looked into to other counties who um were using this system and I think um whether we like it or not even being the end of the road um they are getting into some difficult situations where there's um physical
activity and um I think that will be obviously captured when there is some form of Technology on their body showing what actually happened commissioner white well we're not exactly at the end
of the road we've got a whole another country 40 some miles away from us so there's that activity but Pat what is the price I haven't heard of price I mean I haven't I didn't pull up your line item what does how many body
cams would you anticipate needing as in each Deputy would have one of their own all the time so how many is that and you'd probably need a spare at at least and then what does the initial uh
investment cost like per I am looking for so we will be purchasing oh let's see here okay here we
are 13 I'm I'm sorry um yes 13 body War cameras um that coming uh you know the uh the charging dock microphones complete set up through axon and the total price on everything
is $30,000 8.76 thank you madam chair um Pat um y I would say and thank you commissioner Sullivan for the you know perspective from that standpoint what's the value I mean the pros and the cons and I can
anticipate especially in today's world we'll call it that that a establishing uh the um The credibility of our position when it comes to court
cases that that that's significant so we can find in our experience to say since we've had body cameras we've seen uh credibility in law enforcement because people see the reality U I find myself in the situation where it it can
be he said she said whatever and um uh if if uh we had thorough cameras everywhere it's it's not what I'm saying I can show you what actually happened so I realize that it's just a matter of balancing what is the cost relative to
the benefit so one benefit is going to be the fact that it builds Integrity into our processes because we're going to be more mindful the other thing is is that that the public is going to be mindful of the fact that they can't just he said she said because it'll be taped
and uh the the third thing is is that the evidence that is tangible because it's represented and we just had a court case in which the evidence that I presented was all pictures and so it makes it easier for the judge because otherwise it's just a verbal whose
credibility you're going to accept and if the culture is denigrating law enforcement then you just tend to have that mindset that certainly law enfor forcement must not be telling the truth and so I I see the benefit of that um
the uh This research that I had had done relative to happened to be a Baltimore Police and this was back in 2016 they began their program for an initial investment of 11.3 million four years later the cost had tripled to 35.1
million and um so understanding costs it's it's difficult because things change on us other than the fact that we know we just passed you know another investment in upgrading our
technology and um if that fund that we've been setting aside in law enforcement is for technology that uh if we're going to rob Peter to pay Paul and I don't know that because we haven't had that discussion it's good when we set money aside for
technology but if it's a uh in position to be able to upgrade our equipment the the instruments that we have in our vehicles I can remember when we changed that to make it more updated and so um we just want to be sure that we're
representing things as they will be so that if we have a fund set aside for technology if we've seen that we've used a considerable percentage of that for the technology we have in place right now we just want to be sure we're counting total costs when it comes to technology and given the fact of what
we've seen here that if costs increase that quickly all of a sudden it this is why we're seeing some of these smaller counties even though they had the program getting out so it's a matter of prioritizing and recognizing benefit versus cost when it comes to down to the
all of the things that are are prioritized in law enforcement that really serve as a benefit to us yes yes that's correct it's completely understandable
um Pat um do you have like in the Mis speaking Mis um Jay seems um to always be on the hunt for Grant dollars would this fold into Mis looking for technology Grant dollars for body
cameras or would that be the responsibility of your department or are there grants out there that would help with this does anybody know Rowan that that is a good question um I
don't know that there are grants out there I mean we we we had initially looked into using the stone garden Grant to purchase these uh but that's that's not acceptable under that Grant um a lot of the uh the grants we receive um you know things like
technology and and weapons and things like that are not acceptable purchases under those grants um something specific to body cameras I don't know if there are any grants I think there used to be I know quite quite some time ago when they first came out but I don't know that there are anymore we can we can uh
we can check into it though and most of the grants that M through radio communication and Mis gets insight into is through the secb Statewide emergency communications board
and then under ecn emergency communications Network Network which is a division of DPS all that to say that the grants that Mis gets insight into and the Committees that we're involved in because of the radio communication program that that lives under Mis are
related to communication so it's it's grants related to 911 it's grants related to iPods like your code red or everbridge and it's grants like the one that we just received for replacing armor radios and so so body cameras
don't L fall within the range of grants that Mis is is looking at so Pat let's just establish your fund a little over 50,000 and that's within your budget with the law enforcement and then you will um as the time goes by
when you get extra side money however that comes in you'll put that in the budget for a technology update is that correct yes um currently we uh we set aside $120,000 a year into our technology budget and I believe that
this is either the third or fourth year we've been doing this we I mean we're we're building a considerable uh uh sum in there but unfortunately the way technology is I mean if if we had to replace our records management system or our CAD system or anything in dispatch
like that um that that is significant cost and that this was the reason that the board um voted to set the this money aside and accumulate throughout the years because when these costs do hit and they're usually due to an emergency
or upgrade for uh some software but it's it's not a uh I guess it's not a cost that that needs much discussing because it's it's it's Public Safety it's it's notification to the public it's things like that so that's the reason uh that
we' have this money set aside and um we will keep setting it aside uh as long as the uh the board it okay thank you any other questions for PS thank you madam chair just to clarify Pat from a budget standpoint that those
monies are designated so they're set aside specifically for technology that means that they can't be used in any other application correct correct yeah and so knowing what replacement costs based on what our experience has been
moving forward uh a lot of times when you we set money aside for Capital Improvement maintenance whatever like that those costs you get one problem with the building and it it can wipe it out so
just it's it's not like we're needing to spend the money to spend it because we got it we've just identified an area where we think it might be beneficial we have that money in the fund and we're aware of of uh future cost that we might encounter so when we look at our lived
experience it basically defines what we might have to tap into that money again uh so it just basically it's just addressing a stewardship thing of those funds which it's great that we've been setting them aside because that's
reality yes that that is absolutely correct anybody else yeah okay Peterson coming on Sheriff I can maybe talk to you about this also but I
know that the the policy the written policy that you submitted um is a lexipol document I am having a hard time finding some of the statutory requirements that are specific to Minnesota in that and so I don't know if
maybe the easiest way to address that is just to send an email that has Maybe some of those requirements and and you can address if you think that is in the
policy yes we can uh we can definitely have a conversation about that I think I think most of the statutory requirements uh in regards to chapter 13 with the the data practice you know as far as like I said at the beginning as far as us using
them when we use them and how we use them that would be dictated by uh individual uh Department policy yeah and I can for reference I'm looking at the requirements um under Minnesota statute 626 8473 but I can send that in an
email okay thanks and then if I can just add for for Next Step then uh a regularly State Statute requires a regularly scheduled uh a public hearing at a regularly scheduled meeting and so Sheriff Eliason
and I had talked about you know there obiously the sheriff's office would like to get moving forward with this and so um maybe sometime in March and then um before we pick that agenda um to have that public hearing and work with Brady's office to do the public notice
and the other things that are required um Sheriff Eliason and attorney Peterson can just let me know once that policy is finalized as that's um a stated part of the public hearing is to address the intent of the county to implement a body warn camera policy
does that sound agreeable Pat yes that sounds wonderful very good okay all right commissioner gamble thank you it it it would also be
helpful especially providing information and context for the public when we have public hearing things like that if Pat if you could um give some examples of similar counties with similar population
fluctuations um as to whether or not they've instituted this body cam program and if they've headed in place uh some of the pros and cons so if we could do comparables and and uh have that context
I I think it would go a long way to help inform public yeah absolutely I I will reach out to some other I get back in office any other questions or comments well Pat thank you for coming on board
and um getting us to speed with um this future plan and hopefully we'll be able to address it further in March all right thank you and I apologize again for my uh for not being there we have time to work you in and we
did thank you thanks Pat thanks okay so our last item here is uh another Pat and we're going to talk to the uh finalization of interview questions and to incorporate our board values which
was supplied by uh commissioner gamble a list and we have chance to look that over so we'll try to contact Pat this hello hey Pat this is Rowan Watkins with Cook County we got you here at the
committee of the whole with the with the full board and we're just about to start discussing the uh the core values and and questions okay I'm just uh kind of heading out the door but I'll hang on and uh if there's any
disconnect uh what should I uh if we if we lose you I'll try to call you back does that work that would be great yeah okay that would be wonderful so okay thanks much Rowan you
bet good morning pad good morning how are you doing Jimny we're doing thanks for your work over a long weekend oh you bet you bet is it as cold up there as it is down here oh yes but it's getting
better older I bet it's getting better yeah so um I think you had a suggestion here about possibly looking at an additional applicant I guess we'll start with that but could you refresh our
memory on who actually has ended up have you've contacted folks who um by their number is not able to um remain as a um applicant and uh just refresh our memory
as to the number and if they're still on board okay M mam chair 2 three and seven and our numbers if we still have reference to that two and three and seven six two and
three right but he's maybe had some additional differences we lost them we'll okay we'll call again 23 asking which ones are withdrawn or which running right
yeah sorry about that that's okay so the candidates that we have had drop out include candidates um two candidates
three and the third finalist uh which is candidate number seven I was informed that she had an upcoming interview prior to the Cook
County interview okay so you don't know yet on that no I don't know I've reached out asking when that interview is and wanting to I guess dig a Little Deeper as to her
knowledge of Cook County in the grand marray area but I haven't heard back from her yet okay okay so we had selected four previous there's two that have confirmed that
they're no longer in the running and then one that is questionable okay but at this point she said that she is still interested um in the position
okay what about number six it's number seven number Pat did you did you ever hear confirmation from candidate six yes yes I did very good and he still
very still interested okay so I think you had um maybe asked the question about maybe any additional candidates that you've looked into maybe a background of one or so I don't know if we want to add any any more to the
candidates are we okay with the three i i p personally uh mam chair and and board members uh I think that you should
have more candidates um you know it's still a period of time before March 5th um the last thing that I would want is for you to have one or even just two individuals coming up for
an interview um I I think there's value and benefit people may look good on paper but when you see them in an interview you know a lot of things can change
um so I did I reviewed the candidates there was one individual who had a uh a department head background who in planning who seemed like that person would be a viable candidate um and so I
would definitely encourage adding that person and I almost wonder if it might also be worthwhile for the board to you know remove those candidates that are no longer in the running and take another
look at that group of finalists commissioner white Pat this is commissioner white um and i' like this to be an item that we we talk about after we finish this but so I don't forget I really would like to see the
entire list of the 41 um just to see see where these people were coming from because it seems like a lot people and I'm told that to get that information it requires a board the
board to direct our attorney to request that from you and then our attorney would be the person to control our uh being able to review those those candidates and I'm sure it
would be on site here and so um but back to your who is it there's that but then back to the you just said there was one more um perhaps I could have our
interest administrator I I'm not certain I wrote These down but but by your grading system um we actually had um like we never even
considered um applicant number one but we actually had three Commissioners uh put that applicant on their list of five just like number two and
number three I mean they had quite a few and then all the rest had only two I mean if you're not doing it by you're scoring by ranking them by 1 2 3 4 five if you
just do them by how many how many Commissioners were interested in the candidate then we are missing and number six number uh number four was another one
that had a number of uh Commissioners interested in them um so I don't I don't know if we should actually just go down and and review which ones we actually picked again and then go to the ones that got the most
votes not by ranking or do we start all over great point and and I agree with that I I think if you remove the two candidates that have withdrawn from the process uh would the board go through
and you know the ones that we have left in addition to maybe adding that one individual that I just mentioned would the board like to go through and give points and then have further
discussion and review their selection of who they would like to invite in for the interview uh that I think is certainly an option that is open for for discussion Madam chair yes just little
context so of the two that dropped out they were the the higher scoring candidates bringing us from having four finalists down to two with one of those two being saying that there's another interview closer to where that
individual lives that's still hanging out there um but that they are interested and one that is still very committed and interested uh of the semifinalists uh that were scored candidate one and candidate four were
right on the edge they were the next highest scoring candidates that didn't make the finalist lists and so I think that's part of the consideration that Pat is putting forward and asking the board to consider whether we would want to include them and then just for the
context of going back and looking at the other applications of the whole 41 that didn't make the original eight semi finalists Pat had gone back and done some looking there and that's the one that he's referencing who had some
planning experience and was a department head that he's putting forward as a another consideration for the board to add to the semi-finalist pat did I did I summarize that accurately beautifully thank you Rowan I
appreciate that you bet the thing about the work that Pat does is um out of the 41 candidates you have people that just are going to submit their name because that's what they do and they're not really maybe
background of uh County um work or if involved in a whole lot of anything with uh the public and so that's how he's eliminated we can't no he's done all that work I understand so this is where
we are he said I look back and now I see a department head candidate that possibly would work so he's suggesting that we consider that commissioner Sullivan so just for the people that have recently walked into the room we are still in the committee of the whole
meeting and we are not in a decisionmaking um mode we are not making any votes here at Committee of the whole we are in discussion so I just want to make sure the people that just entered the room there clear commissioner Mills yeah Pat I
would very much like to uh get the video interview from that other candidate that you've identified um and go from there I think we should add I mean I'm I'm happy waiting until we get that video interview if if we need to otherwise I
would also be happy inviting candidates one and four um to be interviewed in person um because that's who scored and have a number of Commissioners interested so um just want to cast
a a good net and um and see what we get thank you yeah and the one issue that we will have is obviously uh um in terms of getting a video interview that would take a period
of time but I think if we're talking about one individual I can certainly Reach Out directly uh to him and see how quickly that can be completed we'd want to also get the uh work personality index and the information disclosure so
we'd get everything to bring this new candidate up to speed with the existing candidat so you have all consist information to look at very good thank you on that P okay so are we all good with that
Pat's going to look into this fourth candidate okay so you uh mentioned that you um had received the um list from commissioner gamble on core values
assessment yes yes thank you commissioner gamble for sharing that I did have a chance to review that and I appreciate commissioner gamble providing a little more context uh as to the definitions and uh I would not have a
problem if that is the board decision to have candidates review the core values and asking them to identify I believe it was the top 10 core values uh I believe that that
gives you more insight I'm not sure that there is a right or wrong answer um but certainly if that would benefit you in making the decision that's information that I can simply incorporate into our
process it seems like there's a lot of cross values here according to what I had um reviewed and the work that I had put into Crossing all of the uh
candidates um integrity and um values I know there's some here that probably are new um one I would add is persistence you know you have somebody who doesn't drop the ball that keeps
persisting on whatever um Avenue they need to take to in order to get something done so that's just my input on that so commissioner gamble do you have any other things you could add to our values and how we could help you understand that thank you madam chair I I would say
that um when it comes to the process of hiring that um the um recruitment is um is a matter of prioritizing the most important skills skills and behaviors needed for an organization it's up to the organization
to identify its values it's up to an organization to um take input from all of the stakeholders and that information that you get then helps you define the criteria that you think is hugely important I had mentioned
before uh that uh I had um asked for the names of some County administrators that are highly respected and regarded in this State and I've called them I've managed to reach all that I uh intended to call based upon those recommendations and asked them in one word what is the
core or the value in one word what do you think you'd need to look for an accy administrator and then in one word what is a huge red flag and it's interesting because um I was getting consistency in
that response um and so here's why it's important and here's why you ask it different ways because a good interviewer understands if you use one word and ask it if you ask it multiple
ways you use that in combination to refine what you're trying to get at so that's why there can appear to be redundancy but it's by asking it because people will perceive the question differently and their response when you
ask it multiple ways uh addressing a similar issue like you could just say the word integrity and if you just left it it as Integrity uh there's multiple things that comprise Integrity um just like when you talk
about character there's multiple things that comprise character so here's the importance of doing from my standpoint I think that once you have the stakeholders identifying what's important to you that you establish then
an objective to match the values that you've established what you're looking for to an assessment that is based upon relevant education that's learning experiences that are directly related to the position that an individual is
applying for Relevant experience in a similar role we have hired in every situation somebody that's never been a County Administrator that should tell you something and then core competencies that's attributes or personal skills that make someone
effective in their role if they don't have the competencies if you don't know what you're looking for if you can't Define competencies then you're setting yourself for failure core values the most important values that guide a person's or organization's actions and
decisions the goal is to experience cognitive congruence when what you think and believe align with your words and actions the other thing I would look at is character personality traits reputation Integrity temperament a person's unique
behavioral style and the way that the experience and react to the world reputation overall quality of character as seen and judged by others and fit alignment with organization's Vision goals and desired culture a vision is a
long-term aspiration while goals are the steps Tak to achieve that Vision if you in recruitment look at all of these component parts that contribute to what you're trying to achieve I think that's important and I will give you an example
in our second hire for County Administrator we ident identified personal skills attributes and personal skills and I think I had related that uh there were 23 of them and the consultant
gave us that list and we got that back and I I did that list for myself what's what do I think is very important and then I looked at the list identified one by one of the applicants and I look at what I'm
hearing from County administrators right now and what I'm hearing repeatedly I don't prompt them I just say what is the number one thing that's important and they say relational it's relational you look at the one person
that we had that came in and unfortunately we lost within a year and you talk to staff that were here and they will say that the relationship nurtured them in their positions and their ability to be able to do their job
they felt valued they felt that they could be themselves because this was a person that genuinely cared about people and nurtured them one of the things we saw on personal skills identified and what you provided Pat was the thing
about care for others if you identify those values from our lived experience coupled with best practices and and County administrators that identify what's important we need to benefit from those things we aren't making this decision in
a vacuum so here knowing the importance of interpersonal and knowing what we've heard from respected 30 years as County Administrator one word relational so here's the test that we took with 23
things that people rated 1 through 23 what they most valued this is a candidate I rated number one interpersonal which is relationship the candidate self-scored
themsel my number one inter personal was there number 23 the last possible value that tells you something my number two I think it's very important that a County Administrator has analytical and
problem solving skills because believe me there are challenges there are problems and you have to be able to analyze it we just had a conversation this morning about a land offer
if we have no appetite for analyzing things no appetite for problem solving with things that get complex that's setting us up for failure we have to make a commitment the diversity that exists in the board as Commissioners we
each have strengths and weaknesses but it is the collective analytical ability that we contribute to making good decisions so my number two I think that the in individual has to be comfortable
with committing to analyze and solve problems so my number two was this applicant's number 22 that's the next to last as a value the third was planning and organizing is my number
three it was that individual's number 21 do you think that a County Administrator should be able to organize and plan coordinate facilitate processes for an organization that is a key fundamental thing that we need to know
the other thing my number five was self-management we need an individual that we know has the Integrity to manage themselves and the roles and the responsib the stewardship they have that was their number
20 my number six was Employee development we need to come alongside and equip the people that serve our community that's my number six value that applicant's rated employee
development number 16 my number nine was diplomacy this applicant it's number 17 if we haven't a career in interviewing and had considerably experiened the good and the bad that
we've learned from we need structures and outlines as a dis discipline in our decision making and when we identified these things as Commissioners that second hire we came into the interview
process and we made a decision completely based upon the energy and the Charisma ignoring all of the things that we established as being important and what we needed to look for we completely abandoned the discipline of process and
so we you can go through processes you can have all the things there but if somebody comes in the room it's wearing an outfit that you like and they have Charisma and they smile at you and you make an emotional decision you have
ignored the discipline that's supposed to be based upon our lived experience that identifies what do we need because we can't replicate what we've had yes there's good but there's bad and so I'm
saying we know we need to know how to interview and there are a lot of things that I think that we're completely missing in really understanding The Who and it is the who that's most important if the education isn't relevant I can go
through who we have right now as the existing candidates and we have one that has been a County Administrator others might have been a village a city look at their education and so we can we can identify
things that maybe to the public look like there's credibility in process but if we don't know the who we're subject we're subject to doing the same thing we've done before and and the message that it sends
to our staff is not a good one there's some staff that have had good experience there's other that had had not had we want all our staff to to be able to provide the maximum their best self in representing the citizens of our County
and we need a facilitator that is going to nurture and understand the importance of that relationship and we've had agencies whatever in our community where you have staff that have a vote of no conference
confidence 100% in leadership and yet the board that makes the decision of putting people in position ignores it and we can't do that our decisions our thorness has to demonstrate a commitment
to best practices and processes that give us the right person and when I went through and evaluated all the candidates that we had based upon multiple criteria not three points on the list that we were given to 40 points for this and 60
for that multiple things that I have a list of those individuals based upon that criteria and when we had our top ones as identified by the process we did use pull out and now we're going to dip
down because we feel we need the numbers not not the qualifications the experience the education we need the numbers to have bodies to interview and when they get in the room things will be different yeah they'll be different
because we have an opportunity then we'll be vulnerable to sway from the discipline of process to be emotionally responded and it's happened it's happened so I I'm not I'm not comfortable we said if we didn't see
that those people met our criteria we would be willing to step up and say let's start again because it's too important to the people in Cook County to be sure that we don't replicate what we've replicated just to get the process done and put somebody in the position so
thanks for listening thank you commissioner gamble so um Pat you have supplied us with questions the interview questions I have uh 18 of them and I was just going through some of the values that
commissioner gamble has already mentioned of integrity and ethical standards relationships experience working with others leadership management style so commissioner gamble would it be appropriate for you to want
us to incorporate any more of the values that you have suggested or for my interview I always feel that when the person is there that's when I'm going to
have the values in my mind and on this paper how do you want to use these interview questions change them around add to them or leave it as it is any comments about that
approach commissioner Mills thank thank you chair um I am happy with the questions I am also open to amending or changing them um
uh I am excited to have um in-person interviews um to really get to know who the people are a little bit more um and and then cross reference that with their their education experience their work experience and and
the personality um index so um I'm also open very open to um going through the interviews and deciding that none of the candidates are someone we'd like to hire so um I think it's important that we
move forward and and um and and do the interviews and and like I was saying kind of cast that that larger net um though they didn't rank uh maybe as high as as our first go around here um I still think there are qualities there
that um could could serve our our organization and Community well so um and just uh just um just so that we're on the same page and and commissioner gamble I appreciate you um reiterating your your concerns um
I think you know um you stated them well the first time um and um and I and I'm sorry that you know our our second I have them too thank you but I'm sorry that the second
um administrator process uh seemed opposite of of your values um this just to qualify our values because we as Commissioners had identified that but we abandoned it but I mean I can go
through that a lot of things learning comes to um lived experience and it comes to uh going back and walking through what that experience was which informs us you know other words where do
we go wrong here and you can you can speak to it by analyzing what the experience was like and how we stepped out there's many analogies that could be used in that regard but anyway appreciate but I just want to qualify it wasn't it wasn't me it was us it it just
when the values are defined and and aligned we celebrate that but we all have an obligation to hold to those things so that that our our response is is an emotional response that neglects all the work that's gone in to identify values yeah I just I
thought you were saying you ranked it one the candidate ranked at 23 it was it was opposite and so I'm sorry that that you know uh in congruency uh happened there um for the third administrator
we've gone we went through a process very similar to this process and um uh our Consultants have interviewed the Commissioners as well as um staff department heads um to come up with
these um attributes that I've referenced before and um and it's maybe not um a quantifiable um um um system um but it's I I feel like it is holistic and it
did I think produce a great candidate um and administrator in our third Go Round And so I'm I'm pleased with our our process before um and so that's why I'm um uh you know hoping that the this
fourth time will will um be fruitful as well um and and you know in those attributes I I think a l I think all I guess I didn't go through one by one to match them but I think I think between the attributes and the questions it
covers um most if not all of of the core values that that were provided so um so that feels good and I really appreciate listing those out and having the definitions I'm sure that was um not a fast task so thank you for that um as
far as um uh the hopeful four inter uh interviews are concerned um I think it is extremely important as we do those to look at those attributes and and see
when they answer the questions where where they're falling in that as far as their leadership and management qualities the communications and collaboration skills uh organizational awareness and team development ethical leadership and professional Integrity operational and functional expertise and
and keep keep those in mind as as they're answering questions and to really try to understand who they are as a person who they are as a professional and and where they may or may not fit into our into our organization and community so
um it I think uh I think we I think we have a lot to keep in mind and learn from past experiences um that that s that that strayed from from maybe that awareness of of what was what was
identified and so um I feel committed to to really keeping those in the Forefront thank you um we have about 20 minutes and then the room will be turning over to another meeting so any other comments about anything right now Commission San
yes Madam chair um I feel comfortable with the process I also would reiterate um what commissioner Mills said that if we don't feel comfortable with a candidate after interviews that we do start over um this is a very important
decision for our County um one thing I would like to comment on is I know that there are not in the the current pool but one County Administrator but I would also say skills are transferable that all of us
individually or through someone we know understands that people develop skills and they take a Next Step they take a risk and I would would not want to eliminate people who have not been County administrators because I think
there are people in that pool that do have the kind of skills and compassion and caring nature who are fiscally responsible are good stewards of our tax dollars and so I think to be able to give them an opportunity to interview
with us is important if we don't take that opportunity I think we might be missing out on some great candidates thank you okay Pat so what else can we help you with
no I I think if just to confirm where we're at uh I will invite that additional candidate to the one that I had identified from those that were initially not forwarded to the board for
consideration that one individual and then will the is it the will of the board to resore individuals at a few board meeting or can I get some
clarification on that please I I think Pat's question is whether or not we'd want to collectively resore the semifinalists that are still remaining or whether we would like to use the previous scores and invite some
of the I I would assume candidates one and four because of how they scored and am I yes yes thank you ran I don't have uh
the documents in front of me I'm driving but yes that's exactly what I'm asking what's a what's a practical timeline for um the video interview with that the one candidate that you're
suggesting to add to to our list being that it's one candidate I will reach out to uh him immediately and my hope is that we could have everything done within a week and then I would obviously prefer
to get that out to you in advance so that you have some time to review that and weigh that in with the other candidates so I'm thinking maybe in two weeks being able to present you with a
new one new candidate and being able to evaluate the others with those two candidates that have dropped out removed from consideration you'd be looking at then the end of February
yes um and I don't know all the rest of bar feels about rescoring candidates I I just want to try to integrate this one that we haven't scored yet and to see where they fall in so um I don't know if
we hold off on invitations be before that or um or or how that should go um as far as candidates one and four are concerned or if we should just go ahead and get things scheduled because it's hard to schedule or and then just see
where the where the next one Falls I guess or yeah but then there's maybe five which is a a heavy heavy interview day so that that that's why I'm asking this I guess so so what I'm hearing here is
kind of a a question on the logistics of incorporating this additional candidate that you're you're referencing in whether or not they would be a finalist for interviews or not do you do you have a recommendation on how
that would go if you can send the all the other information the interview the work personality index everything else to the board and allow them enough time to review um how can we get you information or collectively the board
decide in a in a way that makes sense whether or not this person will be a finalist or not if the board wanted to commun um I'm trying to think of how this would
all play out what I could do is I could certainly Advance the information to the Commissioners um but I think any determination on that person would have to be done in a board meeting so uh I
don't know if the board to be receptive to a special meeting just to make a determination uh as to whether or not you interview that individual um we have a board meeting next Tuesday um Pat I have this is
commissioner white I have a question uh if this particular candidate that you're now considering putting forward if this candidate didn't make the cut the first time around why is this candidate making the cut now I mean
what happened like we just don't need to find candidates just to have candidates we we need candidates that that we could truly consider that could benefit our County so um why was this C
candidate not selected the first time around this candidate was not selected because uh they did not have uh uh City administrator County Administrator uh experience or kind of a
leadership type role uh I shouldn't say City County but a leader executive director uh they have managed a department but they do not have any experience in managing an organization which certainly there is
potential that this person may do well uh we do not in in today's labor market uh you know individuals are looking for individuals with experience and without the qualifications but there are
individuals out there who have potential and who are looking to be promoted to these positions who could very well could do well uh that's yet to be determined that through an interview perhaps you would get a better sense
of this person's suitability to Cook County and suitability to be uh a leader within the organization now our last administrator quote unquote only had experience with a department so um
departments vary in size it really depends in just how much training they've had what their education's had so I'm open to it I understand you got to draw the line somewhere so you know if you're only going to give us 10 and this person was number 11 or whatever I get it um but I agree with commissioner
Sullivan is saying is that there's there can be aptitude even though they don't have that experience we just you find that out in the interview or maybe the video interview G thank you madam
chair to the point of somebody not having the experience um I I would say that and I I've expressed this before when I've been interviewed by board for executive director positions I have
responded and they've asked me is is the resume is the education is the experience more than important than the person and I would I would agree 100% that if you have the right person that the right person based upon an
assessment of really knowing that person their aptitude their competencies their core values that uh they can be an excellent individual but it it underscores the importance of using things that measure who the person
is not their resume not their education not their experience those are all important but my response to the board that's asking me this question what's the more important I always respond it's the who who that person is they might
not have ever they don't know you know what the definition of a county is but if they are the right person if they have the skills that we've identified the core values and the competencies they can be successful so I'm not ruling it out but there are things through
learned experience that tell you that you're more likely to succeed if you have these right uh alignment of competencies values with the organization so it goes
back to the organization needs to know who they are what their employees expect what the community expects and then align the candidate with those values if we uh move forward and we're going to
assess these individuals that we're going to bring in to interview I highly recommend that we add the core values assessment which they take just like the personal skills which they take and we as not skilled
interviewers don't try to cover our bases with questions that have to be uniformly asked all of these things it's following basically best practices and Rec commendations and core values are
huge I want them to tell me what do you value do those values line up with what we value as a county do they we want them to tell us that and it can't fall through the
cracks so my feeling is position is uh that uh we need to know we need to give them an opportunity to identify core values and and the all of the candidates that we choose to assess that
should be another discipline tool that we use in making our assessment do so uh I um yeah I I I guess I'm confused do you don't are you saying the question the 18 questions that we have are not going to I mean
they may not personal skills I'm sorry the personal skills questions these 18 questions 18 questions I've already underlined many of the things that you think are important and there we would too and they they rated those and and gave us
what their respons is and that you're talking about the questions that are coming up no that's not the discipline the asking the question is not the discipline the same as them just like they did in the personal skills ranking
what it is and that's what I'm saying when we when we had the experience that we did the ranking before you could look how that was a discipline you would look at it and say oh my goodness that's if if we have experience respected County
admitters saying relational is hugely important and and we identify in our values that relationship is important if our employees tell us relationship is important and then we we interview somebody and or we look at their chart
and we interview and we find out that that's not the case I'm a person that has a lot of energy I got a lot of Envision I got a lot of vision um I have a lot of energy and um I like to be the center of attention and what is that
telling you what is that telling you that's telling you I don't I want somebody that possesses humility that recognizes in their role that they're a facilitator I'm not a leader that makes the decisions and writes the policies I can make recommendations and things but
it is this board that ultimately Bears the responsibility the Integrity in our governance is demonstrated in the people that we hire and put into position as stewards on behalf of this County and so I'm saying you take this just like you
do the personal skills that's why I'm saying if you went through what normally you're looking at there are multiple things education experience core competencies core values character reputation fit alignment those are ways
of doing that and you put together things that help you discipline yourself to make sure you have those pieces so when you're evaluating somebody you're doing it holistically because you included all those things that are important in defining who the person is
so yes I'm recommending you do this they will come out in the questions they will come out in the interview process that we will see overlap in this but we need them to Define just like the personal skills where are your values rank them
rank them and so I guess back to my question are you you're feeling like these um 18 questions do not address that they they might but they're questions then why don't we do that with the personal skills why don't we just let the personal skills and and the I'm not sure
the personal what are you talking the personal skills are where we rank those things when we said to somebody what's your creativity uh your care for others that's what we were sent that's what Pat sent us the WPI yeah yeah that's personal skills okay that these are core
values okay so you just rank them okay um is that something Pat that you've Incorporated in the past is there like a standardized um values assessment or um I'm not familiar with all the tools at
your at your disposal you know what we kind of feel is somewhat addressing what commissioner gam brings up is that work personality index uh you know that in addition to obviously the interview questions uh try
to get at the type of individual I as I mentioned I'm more than happy to include uh an additional kind of homework assignment for the finalist to prioritize those core values
that Mr gamble presented and that information can be provided to each of the board members to use and Aid them in their decision making that would not be a a significant amount of extra work it
would go right into the process yeah yeah it was just my I just thought there might be a tool like the WPI that is exclusively for values but I think what you're saying is that the WPI is trying to incorporate values and I would agree and I agree with the questions also
doing that and so um I'm not looking to rank these um in in any particular order like it feels like do you like black or white better and it's just those types of either ores or quantitative I think when we do these interviews to really get to the person you got to get away
from the numbers and really listen to what they're saying as far as answers are concerned and and the questions certainly matter with um let's see what's your management style um please describe your involvement in in budgeting Financial process organizational awareness um describe a
mistake at work that requires some humility and how do you deal with that situation and um some of them are relational um as far as uh with tribal Nations or with other employees and so I think there's a lot in there but
um uh I would struggle to rank my values from 1 to 23 um that would uh that would require a lot of thought and I applaud um that's important yeah I that would require a lot of thought and I applaud
uh those who can differentiate like that I think um there's a lot that I mean what about 24 and 25 you know or what about one and a half or you know there are oh excuse me we have a Time Factor
I would just say that there are there are lists that comprise of 50 oh right right and they're told to pick two you could Circle 15 with pick two that's thing silly to me like that's ignoring 48 of them kind of like there's a lot it's not you you that's why as an
organization and as staff and as a community you identify your values and that's why you you ask proven County Commissioners what are the values and what you're doing is you're reinforcing that you're ensuring that you're going to get a B uh opportunity to be successful because
you know how to go through the evaluation process so it's and you don't have to do it but they do and if they want the position I want to know who they are because I want to know who the person is and it's not predicated on me
asking a question it's predicated on them defining who they are so um commissioner gamble maybe it would be good for you and I to meet and kind of go over the question questions that already provided and then we can evaluate and say well for you these
are the three important things I'd like to talk to them about and then work it work that through because we only have 50 minutes with them or an hour at the most and each one of us are going to come with a different
viewpoint but as a collection we're going to hear from everybody who has um values that they think are important yes mam chair um ptis said it's not a problem to give it to the
person it's not a problem the board should decide uh do we want to include this as part of our informed decision or not and how would that be used at the interview then pardon there's so many of
those how would that be used that would be used because I look at it and I find out whether this aligns with the values that I think we have as an organization based upon the information that we have accumulated and if I find out that if I find out
things that that don't they don't have those values that they share anybody will tell you that um if you hire an individual that shares your values the energy would going the
same direction if you hire somebody that doesn't share your values there's going to be conflict so you ask the 30 County the 30-year County Administrator some question he says alignment the individual needs to be aligned with the values they need to
understand their role and and their position these things identify whether or not that exists in the person to align with that and and so if we look at the the personal skills things that we
line up if we don't connect the dots then that's on us that's on us this is a tool to help us this is a tool to help us and there's multiple ways as I said earlier you can ask questions you can do interviews you can see the person but
those personal skills self assessment those core value self assessment are beneficial and they are really critical in defining the gr hugely important so one thing that we we all got these so one thing that we need to
establish for sure should Pat go ahead and interview the department who has um experience as a department head should he do that is that where we're going yes I'm comfortable with that okay good so we have that established
Pat thank you okay anything else a decision on um applicants one and four as to whether or not they'll be included as fin I think is the other thing that was wondering yes thank you br and I've said before I'm comfortable
with both one and four when we did the ranking before they Rose to the top okay for Val I'm I'm not a fan because I I have all those values and for me to put one ahead of the other is um do you like
your son or your daughter more you know it's not this isn't this is something that is is uh this this is best practices core to to assess those values are all identified in what we have
already it's not the same way and I'm sorry don't to appreciate how we got it but I mean that's based upon that's based upon experience and it's we have experience too yeah it's it just really seems
puzzling that we're not willing to just ask a candidate to be willing to identify that or that just seems I think it's I'm happy identifying but it's the ranking that I'm not
Happ you something you think when I I don't want um I just I just say I'm disappointed in the spiritual for this process well according to all my paperwork I rank them according to their
experience their education and then I highlighted everything that I thought across the board was really interesting important of a value I don't see a lot of difference there are some but I don't see a lot of difference in that salivan
Madam chair um one thing that I like to do when interviewing finalists is to get samples of writing that are done somewhat on the spot like while someone is waiting um and one of the things we
might do is use commissioner Gamble's list and have them identify their top five core values and explain why it would give us an opportunity to look at how they can
can compose and write so part of their written communication style what they can do on the spot it would give us some insight into their values and have them give us a reason why to explain I think what it
might do is help us to um think about values can also depend on how these candidates view our County and what challenges we're going through what do we need right now what do they care about and what do they see as our needs
and so I think having them do a short written activity while they're waiting for their interview might be an option to help us identify their values commissioner gamble I'm curious to see how you would respond to that um
the uh I think you mentioned commission Mills that you'd have a difficult time being able to identify and prioritize values you'd have to put a lot of thought into it so my response is that it we need to measure values if you
don't even want to have them put a list to it you could just do that do that now identify your top five values and tell you why you hold those values if you want to do that you can do that but they're still ranking it and it takes
thought to have them do it while they're waiting I think that that's that's that that's problematic okay and we could certainly an example of one of the things that we said in the uh the
one of our previous interviews here's what you're supposed to do you have a scenario write that scenario and create a handout and give it to the evaluators at the point of your interview so we sat down some of the candidates give you
three ring binder the candidate that we hired came in with a notebook yellow bat flipped it over like that said I went to the coffee house this morning I wrote this down the P they ignored what we had asked which
is an indicator that is an indicator and you should know those subtle little things so my point is is that that I'm just interested in measure core values because that is identifying the who we have not identified the who we've
identified the what related to The Who and so I'm just saying however we want to do it please measure values because out of your values you live your life I I would agree and I would say I if if Pat is
comfortable giving um something like that as a tool to send to us in advance of the personal interview I'm very comfortable with that but I do like to see written work and I like to see thought process behind that and I think
it would get at the values it would require that the candidates think about the values and rank them agre we just need to measure values need measure value and and as we as a board had
identified after our first administrator he pulled us together he says we need to identify our values for this Community people know need to know what we value and my response was this is a healthy thing but understand once you identify
your value people have the right to graciously hold us accountable that's why we need to know what you value because we can come alongside and try to affirm the importance of those values when you
identify that to us so if you say I'm I'm I'm caring I believe in building a relationship then when you see something that's alienating people you say you know so but we have to know those shared values are hugely important so however we want
to measure them I agree if they write to it it's going to reflect even more so but we we need my recommendation we should do it okay Pat so have you been taking notes yes I have okay so well I I
haven't because I'm driving but okay uh and and I told I told Rowan that was unfortunately I had a prior commitment so I'm I'm on the road it's going to another meeting right now but uh I'm mentally taking notes my question I
heard the uh possibility of having individual finalists come in and write uh on S if I if I may I think I'm keeping story here what we'd like to do
is have you um reach out to the candidate that you brought up this morning who wasn't a semifinalist who used to be a a department head and have them complete all the other information that the other semifinalist did so that
the board can review it and then invite applicants one and four who are our next closest to being finalists to be finalists in light of the the dropouts with draws and then also take
commissioner Gamble's core values and ask the finalist to write something up as to why they are important to them in order in order of priority do I did I capture that
correctly M CH just to qualify commiss solivan you were just saying that it's an open pallet that the question is just saying as opposed to saying what's your top five from the list no I indicated prioritize your top five values and
explain why I agree with that okay so I'm seeing nodding heads here so Pat I think if if need be when you're done driving you want to call and circle back I can I can articulate um
the decision here today okay so that would be great I will do that thank you for your time and I appreciate the input and we'll get work on this right away okay thank you Pat thank you thank you thank
you bye bye bye now so I mentioned our standing uh committees and other than that we are adjourned thanks everyone thank you mam chair are we reconvening or did we cover what we need