WEBVTT METADATA Video-Count: 1 Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=BE_I6igullY Part: 1 1 00:00:16.640 --> 00:00:33.840 I'd like to call to order the planning commission meeting for Thursday, July 16th. Please stand for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation 2 00:00:33.840 --> 00:00:51.039 under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Mr. Behringer, will you take roll call, please? >> Commissioner No. Commissioner Knoblock >> here. >> Commissioner Treml, >> here. Chair Smokeoky >> here. >> Commissioner Casey >> uh here. 3 00:00:51.039 --> 00:01:07.439 >> Commissioner Ronak here. Commissioner Kendall >> here. >> All right. So then the first item we need to adopt this evening's agenda. Do I have a motion? >> I would move that we adopt this evening's agenda. >> Second. 4 00:01:07.439 --> 00:01:24.240 >> I have a first by Casey, a second by Treml. Any discussion or changes? Hearing none. The motion passes. Uh, next we need approval of the minutes from the June 18th, 2026 meeting. 5 00:01:24.240 --> 00:01:42.560 >> I move to approve the minutes from the June 18th, 2026 meeting. >> We have a first by Kendall. Do I have a second? >> I'll second. >> Any changes, any conversation, any anything to bring up? Okay, hearing 6 00:01:42.560 --> 00:02:00.719 none. Um, that motion passes. And so that will bring us to our first uh public hearing item, planning case 26-23, which is a use and dimensional flexibility for a K through8 school at the family center mall. Uh, 2891 7 00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:17.120 Rapids LLC. Um, I believe I it's missing the other part of this capitals. I apologize. Part of the name is excluded. So, I'll get that for you. Okay. Mr. Behinger, >> Madam Chair, members of the commission, 8 00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:32.080 I have before you uh planning case 26-23, a request for use flexibility for the um Star of the North Academy to be located at the Family Center Mall. Starting with the um site, this is a 9 00:02:32.080 --> 00:02:48.640 site that contains a 1960s indoor mall building. Um the site is 14.17 acres large zoned port campus square where schools are not a permitted use. Um the site is guided residential mixed use but 10 00:02:48.640 --> 00:03:09.760 it is within our river rapids overlay district which does allow um for use flexibility. So moving on to the proposal here. This is an image of the existing floor plan of the building. The Anoka Henipin School District um has 11 00:03:09.760 --> 00:03:26.000 recently left the building, which is the blue space there, the northeast portion of the building, which is approximately 52,000 square ft. The applicant is proposing that the Star of the North Academy move its Rapids and East Bethl locations to this mall. Um that 12 00:03:26.000 --> 00:03:44.239 would encompass 360 students with plans to expand that to 550 by year 2029. Um they employ 50 staff and have operating hours Monday through Friday from 7:00 a.m. to 5:00 pm. Also submitted in the applicant's um 13 00:03:44.239 --> 00:04:00.319 floor plan was the um area shown for a mosque and associated uh event and office spaces. Um in the lower right portion of the the image there, the yellow area. Um just to be clear, those are not part of this use flexibility 14 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:20.959 request tonight. The mall has a large um parking area with multiple access points to that parking lot. Um we feel that it's um adequate for bus and vehicle traffic. Um as shown here, the applicant um 15 00:04:20.959 --> 00:04:36.479 shows buses arriving from 113th Avenue and Rapids Boulevard and then departing um in red from onto 113th Avenue and Crooked Lake Boulevard. Also shown here are the buses stacking along the northern and eastern walls of the 16 00:04:36.479 --> 00:04:55.360 building um for drop off and and pickup. The applicant has proposed um the following requests or the following site improvements here within the next two years. Um they plan to paint the exterior of the building, add some decorative lighting, replace all um 17 00:04:55.360 --> 00:05:10.720 rusted metal exterior doors, add some landscaping to the parking lot. um repair some deteriorating sections of that asphalt parking lot, some cosmetic and tenant improvements as well as some as needed roof and HVAC repairs. Also 18 00:05:10.720 --> 00:05:29.840 within the next four years um add a outdoor play area for the school. Here we see um some elevation drawings of what the building will look like post um improvements. The paint colors include warm gray, dark gray, white, 19 00:05:29.840 --> 00:05:52.400 black, gold, and dark red. So, in order to grant use flexibility, we must find the following four criteria to be true or met. Um, criteria A, the proposal significantly advances the intent of the river rapids overlay. Staff feels this is met. Um we feel that 20 00:05:52.400 --> 00:06:07.360 the school is an appropriate reuse of the small space um and there's potential for a larger mixeduse development um on the site. The school will bring back some more energy, some life activity um to the small area. 21 00:06:07.360 --> 00:06:23.520 Uh criteria B, it is necessary for the efficient wellorganized property development. We feel this has also met the proposal. Um we feel is an efficient use of this space. um the space that was um most recently used by a um by the 22 00:06:23.520 --> 00:06:41.680 school district and the space will be used as is with very little interior remodeling. Criteria C, there will be significant amenities provided to the to offset any harmful effects of the use. We feel this is met um already talked through those 23 00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:58.720 major uh building and parking lot upgrades that they're proposing um which will improve the the site's appearance. We don't foresee any um harmful effects to the surrounding properties from this use. And as stated before, the the large parking lot and and multiple site access 24 00:06:58.720 --> 00:07:14.080 points will adequately handle any traffic that this use generates. And finally, um criteria D, the use does not detract from other uses within the port district. We feel this is also met. um we feel the opposite that the school 25 00:07:14.080 --> 00:07:32.160 could actually have a positive effect on surrounding properties and with the mall currently being um largely vacant and underutilized, it's it's been detracting from surrounding properties for some time now. So with that, our staff recommendation is that the planning commission 26 00:07:32.160 --> 00:07:49.120 recommends approval of use flexibility to allow a K through8 school to operate at 2891 Rapids Boulevard with the following conditions listed on the screen. Thank you. >> Wonderful. Is the applicant here? Do 27 00:07:49.120 --> 00:08:04.479 they have a presentation or wish to add anything? >> The applicant and their architect are here. Um, >> do they have a presentation? >> I'm not sure if they wanted to come up and and and speak right off the bat, answer any questions you have for them. >> Please, uh, state your name for the record. 28 00:08:04.479 --> 00:08:18.879 >> Sure. >> And your address, please. >> All right. >> Hi, I'm Jeff Hafferman with Inspire Architects. My address is 465 148th Avenue in Ham Lake. 29 00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:37.360 >> Hi, uh, my name is Rust Muharamov. I am um what do I say? So I live at 57 uh 00 Long Break Trail Edina, Minnesota 55433. >> Yeah, I'm with the property ownership representation. >> Okay. And did you have a presentation or 30 00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:53.200 anything you wanted to add to >> I did not. Um >> Okay. All right. >> Kurt covered it really well. >> Perfect. >> We can answer questions though. >> All right. If we have any questions for you, that'll be great. So, thank you for the introduction. Thank you. >> Uh, commission, is there any questions 31 00:08:53.200 --> 00:09:12.240 for Mr. Behringer? >> Yes. >> Question. >> Commissioner Viaak, >> uh, you have made it a point that the approval of the item here is based upon the seven points 32 00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:28.880 that you put down here that they are indicated they will take care of, >> commissioner. Yes. Um as part of um condition number one, there are seven um site improvements that that we will require to be made. >> That was part of your recommendation. >> Correct. In in addition to number two 33 00:09:28.880 --> 00:09:45.640 and number three there. >> Yep. >> Has the property been purchased by the new people yet? >> Should I walk up there? >> Please, please. >> I'll let the applicant answer that question. >> Thank you. 34 00:09:48.399 --> 00:10:04.320 So our we are in pending stages of the acquisition and uh we are hoping and pushing everybody to close it by August 15th the close the transaction. >> Okay. The reason I ask is I was at the mall today and the parties I talked to 35 00:10:04.320 --> 00:10:20.399 it was still in limbo. They weren't sure that the transaction had occurred yet >> and whether it had been purchased or not. >> Oh yeah. So it's in like final stages. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Other questions? >> Chair Schwanki, >> Commissioner Nablak, 36 00:10:20.399 --> 00:10:37.120 >> I have a question for uh um in the packet it says u tenant lease agreements. Now is it a purchase or a lease? Is it renting or is it a uh physical purchase of the designated spot 37 00:10:37.120 --> 00:10:55.200 in the packet? So the the applicant will be purchasing the property but they will be leasing it to the user to the school. >> Okay. >> And then the uh one it you have these 11 um points of repair 38 00:10:55.200 --> 00:11:12.079 and of recommendations for completions and it says within two years. um point of preference. I think it's just my opinion, but I think there should be a hard date on that before a certain dead like a certain 39 00:11:12.079 --> 00:11:28.880 date and not just within two years, which before two years would be great, but I think if there's a hard date in the like in the calendar, then the city code enforcement and the city planning can follow up with that to make sure 40 00:11:28.880 --> 00:11:46.399 because for for some people two years is a short time. for some people it's a very long time. So >> I I'm just thinking of to be detailed and accurate on that. So um because I've only in the 20 plus years I've lived 41 00:11:46.399 --> 00:12:02.000 here, I've only seen very minimal improvements even when ECF in the school district was running it. That that isore of that whoever the owner is is the owner president. I shouldn't talk bad of 42 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:18.320 the owners and okay. Um, I've in my view, in my eyes, and I don't know what other people think, but I've only seen that property degrade and I've seen very minimal, if no improvements, 43 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:35.839 and it makes me wonder why did ESCF I know they have budget issues with with ECF, but is that um what is the real reason that the school district is bailing out of this very centrallylo, 44 00:12:35.839 --> 00:12:52.320 very large um facility. So, I think that's like three or four questions. So, >> yeah, >> Commissioner, I'm I'm I'll start with your first one and and I might um pass this over to my my supervisor, Matt Brown. I I believe we could put a hard 45 00:12:52.320 --> 00:13:10.800 date on that. Um we could even do once it is approved through council, do exactly two years from that date. Um Mr. Brown. Would that >> Yes, certainly. If if the commission uh desires, you could in in a motion uh 46 00:13:10.800 --> 00:13:26.720 replace that 2-year reference with a specific date, say July or August of 2020. >> Thank you. I think that's just reasonable. If other people on the commission think that's reasonable or not, I don't know. >> Uh so, we're still asking questions of 47 00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:42.560 staff. Do you have a question >> or Okay, please. uh refides to uh your point. All you have to do is part make it part of the motion >> and make it two years from the date of the approval of the uh applicant thing. Second question, is 48 00:13:42.560 --> 00:13:59.839 the school affiliated with any religious fact? >> I'll let the applicant answer that question. >> I am not sure on that one in particular if there's like a direct affiliation. Well, aren't you the >> I'm the property Yeah. property 49 00:13:59.839 --> 00:14:15.760 ownership side. >> Okay. So, the applicant, you don't know if they're affiliated with any religious group. >> I don't I don't know if they have like a direct tie is what I'm saying. >> Do they have an indirect tie? >> Maybe, 50 00:14:15.760 --> 00:14:32.240 >> possibly. >> Possibly. >> Commissioner Ranak, is there a point to that question? >> Well, it would be in regards to taxes and things like that. That's all. So, we're here for a use flexibility, which I'm not sure how that >> Well, it it's just that the applicant is 51 00:14:32.240 --> 00:14:48.959 having a school and he's moving from where it is. And the information I sort of gathered at the mall today was they uh it was part of the possibly part of the Muslim >> uh thing there 52 00:14:48.959 --> 00:15:04.399 >> with the mosque >> that it might have been part of the school. Okay. But I would just like to know if that's the case. >> Okay. >> So I yeah I think I mean they have a website I believe that that would be maybe a good place to look it up and see if you know 53 00:15:04.399 --> 00:15:19.839 >> um can I just can I contribute charter commission charter schools it's not a question it's just me charter schools cannot be affiliated directly with a religion. This charter school, Star of the North Charter School, is a is very 54 00:15:19.839 --> 00:15:36.320 clear on what their statement is on their website. You I would encourage you strongly to check that out. Similar to many other schools, they're also open to hosting a mosque. So, it's they're not identified or structured around any religion, but the church that would or 55 00:15:36.320 --> 00:15:52.639 the um religious facility that will be sharing their space potentially is a mosque. But that's not something that's up for discussion tonight because that's already for use in that space. >> So it's just about the school and charter schools cannot have a religious affiliation. >> Yeah, I think that's like a good legal 56 00:15:52.639 --> 00:16:09.440 term. But the the tenant that we have the other tenants is completely different entities. So they're not the school here. They're going to basically be in the 52,000 ft as a school. >> If that's if that's clear. Uh can I also add? So, in regards to the improvements, 57 00:16:09.440 --> 00:16:24.560 we are planning to basically as soon as we close this summer with the warm weather, we want to try to tackle all the exterior renovations because we want to have a good presentable uh curb appeal. So, it basically brings more 58 00:16:24.560 --> 00:16:39.839 traffic and brings more vibrancy. So, we want to take care of the, you know, the bad asphalt, exterior painting, and some of the landscaping this season. So that's why we're really trying to push everybody to, you know, close it by August 15th hopefully. 59 00:16:39.839 --> 00:16:55.839 >> Thank you. That's good to hear. >> Any other questions? >> Yeah. What about the current tenants? >> Current tenants. >> The current tenants that are there are >> So Grand Slam is staying. 60 00:16:55.839 --> 00:17:12.799 >> Uh I think these guys are, you know, >> is that Mike? >> Yes. I was talking to your gentleman today. >> Oh, my general manager. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And then the mall part, we will basically remodel it and we'll probably have a coffee shop, event center, the 61 00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:30.240 mosque, and some offices. >> Okay. >> Uh the barber is actually leaving, too. It's kind of sad, but he's like older guy, and I think he's just retired. >> He's gone in August. >> Huh? >> He's leaving in August. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Cheers, >> Commissioner Casey. Um, so you're saying 62 00:17:30.240 --> 00:17:47.840 this, the coffee shop, the event center, what could be a mosque, those are all going to have to come to us separately, >> completely separate entities, each one of them. >> We're not do dealing with them tonight or >> we don't have anything on the docket. So, >> yeah. Yeah, we just wanted to share like 63 00:17:47.840 --> 00:18:04.480 the big picture grand vision for the building uh to kind of and then like the land around it also is not for today's discussion, but we're in talks with a couple different developers to possibly do some like housing or apartment building or something of that nature. >> That would have to come before 64 00:18:04.480 --> 00:18:21.440 >> Yeah, it would be like a completely separate project, separate conversation. >> Yeah. Okay. Thank you, >> Mr. Behinger. If I may ask a couple questions um really quick. So, how many children were um in attendance when it was the preschool through Anoka Henipin? 65 00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:37.280 Do you know what the >> Madam Chair? I I don't know the answer to that. I know it was just a >> It was just preschool >> early learning center like >> early childhood >> preschool. I think they only had one unit of that space dedicated to that. 66 00:18:37.280 --> 00:18:52.559 When I when I walked through there last year, I I just saw one area kind of dedicated to small children. >> Okay. And do we confidently feel that expanding that to 350 students is viable right out of the gate? 67 00:18:52.559 --> 00:19:08.960 >> We do actually. And some time ago, I guess I don't know the exact um time frame, but they did have more students there than just the preschool age kids. >> Okay. But we don't know how many. Correct. I I'm just trying to get a 68 00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:26.640 reference in terms of the size and I know that there's discussion of growth up to potentially 500 students in um the next four two two years actually two and a half years. >> 29. >> Yeah. 29 and that just is um that's a lot of students uh for um that space and 69 00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:42.480 I just uh want to make sure that it's it would adequately support that if we're going to back this. >> Yes, we feel that that it will. Um it is a it is a larger space than what the the school currently has. Um I think they're interested in the space because they 70 00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:59.039 feel it is an expansion for them. Um obviously they'll they'll have to meet all occupancy codes and fire codes and storm shelters um things of those nature based on how many kids are there. Um >> yeah the applicant would like to add 71 00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:15.200 something if that's okay. So the if you open the floor if you look at the floor plan it already has all the classrooms there. So at some point uh I I think they ran some sort of programs and classes of some sort of nature. >> Sure. >> I don't know exactly what it is but we 72 00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:30.720 are basically the tenant as long as the all the codes are approved and all the plans are approved they want to take it pretty close to as is on the interior maybe do a little bit of like cosmetic renovation and stuff. Um, so right and I just think uh so what 73 00:20:30.720 --> 00:20:47.799 size classrooms are we talking? Do we have any information on um how many students per classroom, things like that? Any of that information? >> And I I'm probably getting in a little deeper here, but it is if you bear with me just a minute. 74 00:20:48.159 --> 00:21:05.120 >> I'm pretty sure I put numbers on the the plans. I don't know if this isn't was that with the >> Yeah, it says 40 occupants, 27 76 and so on. >> So, each of the classrooms are identified on the plans. 75 00:21:05.120 --> 00:21:20.000 >> Okay. So, uh I'm sorry. Would somebody just point out um like the seventh grade? What are we saying? There is a seventh grade down below the fourth grade there. >> Uh seventh grade >> on the left hand side. Yeah. So, how many >> So, yeah. So it looks like the first 76 00:21:20.000 --> 00:21:36.480 seventh grade room we've got occupancy of 32 and then below slightly larger occupancy of 42. >> Okay. And we don't have a gym room, a gymnasium or anything. >> There's a wreck room on the right side >> is it? >> Right here. >> Mhm. 77 00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:54.640 >> Okay. So there's one recck room >> and there's a cafeteria area. Okay. >> On the other across from it. >> Okay. And plans are to build a playground in four years. Correct. >> Correct. >> Um and until then, what that's So four 78 00:21:54.640 --> 00:22:11.919 years is a long time. So where will kids be let outside? Is it >> We're still working out some of those >> I think we're still working out some of those details. >> Okay. Um Okay. I appreciate that. Um I 79 00:22:11.919 --> 00:22:27.600 just was going to ask another thing. Do we know um the location that the current tenants are occupy right now? How long have they been at that location? >> Um you know >> uh the the school >> the school >> 14 >> do we know how long they've been at that 80 00:22:27.600 --> 00:22:44.240 site at the Rapid site? >> I'm not sure. It's been about a year has >> it's been about a year maybe >> since they've been there. >> Yes. Is it two years? >> Matt, do you know? >> Maybe three or four years. >> Oh, maybe that long. Okay. >> Okay. Excellent. Yeah. 81 00:22:44.240 --> 00:22:59.360 >> Okay. I guess the other the other question if I'm okay to keep going. Uh Commissioner Ronette, >> who's the applicant here? Is it the school or is it the owner? >> The potential buyer. >> The potential buyer is the applicant. >> Correct. >> Yeah. Rustam is the applicant. 82 00:22:59.360 --> 00:23:14.720 >> Yes. Not the not Star of the North Academy. They are not the applicant. >> They are the potential tenant for the applicant. And it just seems a lot of the information here is based on the school. >> Yep, it is. It is. You're exactly right. 83 00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:31.120 Um I guess the reason part of my reason for asking is this. Um I know the request was made to say let's put a hard date in there for some of these um you know um conditions to be met, right, for the improvements. Um my concern well 84 00:23:31.120 --> 00:23:47.520 first of all I'm questioning there are seven in your presentation but there's 11 in the actual condition. Um so I wanted to clarify get a clarification of that. Why are there only seven in your pre presentation but 11 in the actual 85 00:23:47.520 --> 00:24:03.440 condition? >> So the seven um madam chair that I presented on this slide were um what the applicant had proposed. Um, we added a few more conditions to that list to bring that list up to 11. >> And the applicant is aware of those 86 00:24:03.440 --> 00:24:19.279 additions and are they in agreement to >> Yes. >> Okay. So, the question I have is the what if. Okay. So, you have tenants in there uh for two years, let's say, and um you don't get through half this list 87 00:24:19.279 --> 00:24:35.840 for whatever reason, right? Um what is the what if? And I realize that there's ordinance, you know, we we come back, but now you've got occupants in here. And this is where I'm coming back to the use flexibility is it seems like I I do 88 00:24:35.840 --> 00:24:51.919 not remember um any time in the past when we have approved uh any sort of application where we have um the promise to complete such a long list of items um and asked to give our blessing in 89 00:24:51.919 --> 00:25:08.720 advance. And that's that's my concern. If this wasn't such a long list of conditions, I would have um probably a different a different feeling about it, but that's the reason behind my question. Um we can maybe have more of a discussion on it. I don't know if the 90 00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:25.600 applicant has a a thought around that really quick. >> Oh, so uh once again, with some of these improvements, we plan to do them this year. Uh, and basically the school wanted to try to 91 00:25:25.600 --> 00:25:42.880 move in September 1st and now I think that's going to get pushed closer to January 1st. >> Okay. >> And um, you know, some certain things you cannot really do in the winter. >> So, we want to get them done done in the summertime. Even though the list might seem like a 92 00:25:42.880 --> 00:25:58.320 like a a lot of items, but a lot of it is we could just said exterior renovation and it would have been like a one item, but it's basically broken down. But some of these are not a big ticket items, you know. Uh and uh one 93 00:25:58.320 --> 00:26:15.840 more thing is if the building becomes vacant, it's going to have like a sign significant negative cash flow and it could potentially deteriorate further with breaking in with freeze damage with whatever. So >> we were trying to um do all the exterior 94 00:26:15.840 --> 00:26:32.480 renovations in the like the in the summertimes because it's not really on the inside and then uh do maybe minor cosmetic stuff on the inside. get it ready so the school can get in and start operating and start running. And there's a overhead and there's operational um 95 00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:47.840 challenges that you know moving a school over from one place to another, adjusting the school, the students, the staff. So that's why we were like, hey, at the worst case scenario, two years should be plenty of time to get the first list of things done at the 96 00:26:47.840 --> 00:27:05.039 playground. He would uh the tenant was saying, hey, you know, uh it's good. It's a like philosophically we agree it's a great amenity for the students and we're on board with it but they were a little bit concerned with like u funding and execution and lining it all up to make sure because I think a 97 00:27:05.039 --> 00:27:20.240 playground could be somewhere another like$1 to $150,000 potential investment where you have to you know get a piece of land uh you know install all the improvements and the playground and stuff. So that's why they were wanting to have a little bit more timeline for that. 98 00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:35.200 >> Got it. I hope that does that answer. >> That is helpful. Commissioner Ron, >> I'm still trying to get my mind around this thing. You're the owner, right? >> Or the perspective owner. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> The applicant that wants to put a school 99 00:27:35.200 --> 00:27:51.840 in there. I would have thought that they would be here discussing the layout of their plans, all the information >> that you have as a tenant. >> Okay. And yet, as the owner, you're telling us what the tenant may or may 100 00:27:51.840 --> 00:28:07.919 not do. Uh there's no guarantee he will do it because he's had no uh in investment right here. Uh I'm it's sort of >> the chicken and the egg here. >> Mr. Bakone, can you help to get to make 101 00:28:07.919 --> 00:28:23.840 this clear? I understand, but I just wonder if it would be a little easier. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. I would say it probably would be useful to have both people here, but the property owner is Sorry, I just got told to talk louder. I 102 00:28:23.840 --> 00:28:39.919 have a little louder. >> Uh, frankly, the property owner is probably the right person to have for this application because many of the things we have for conditions, >> yes, those are things that the property owner will need to address in order for 103 00:28:39.919 --> 00:28:56.960 this flexibility to to to work, frankly. Um, and then on the the playground piece, uh, I think that's again that's the property owner because they're the person that owns the property surrounding and how that lease looks and things like that, that really is going 104 00:28:56.960 --> 00:29:13.760 to be up to him or his company. Sorry. >> Uh, and just so we're clear, well, I got it. I'll steal the time a little bit. >> Please do. on the timeline piece, the way it's currently written in your uh packet with the 11 conditions and it says within two years. So, I would 105 00:29:13.760 --> 00:29:31.120 interpret that as within two years of whenever the approval happens. And so, I look at that as a solid date. If if this property were approved within two years, all those things need to be done. And to answer your what if, 106 00:29:31.120 --> 00:29:47.760 >> that's a complicated question. I mean, it goes, we could site, we could sue, we could revoke certificates of occupancy, we could do all sorts of wonderful and awful things all at the same time. And we've worked with this applicant before on compliance issues on a different 107 00:29:47.760 --> 00:30:02.799 property and it eventually we got to where it needed to be. So, it's it's worked out. >> Thank you. Okay. All right. Do you have another question? >> Yes. So right now the property owner is proposing that he's going to have a 108 00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:19.279 tenant as a school. >> Correct. >> The school is not here asking to do anything. >> Correct. >> And whatever we talk about may come back to us when the tenant decides they want to do this, this, and 109 00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:36.399 this. because I I would assume that you're not going to tear up your mall to put this school in there unless they have been approved to be there. >> Commissioner Ron, right? I mean, the the tenant will be working with the property 110 00:30:36.399 --> 00:30:54.399 owner for any any of the needs that they have in order to run the school. And yeah, let me >> these are the things that we're requiring in order for the buyer to um to for us to uh to approve the use 111 00:30:54.399 --> 00:31:10.559 flexibility um that would allow him to bring a school in because it's not actually approved today for a school to be in that port. >> Correct. >> Okay. Does that make sense? >> Well, basically it's a potential of a 112 00:31:10.559 --> 00:31:29.520 school going in there then. Correct. >> Okay. So we are in communications with the tenant and tenant I I think with with how the legal procedures work have to go through us to obtain this because this permission stays with the property and not with the lease and we are in 113 00:31:29.520 --> 00:31:46.640 communication with the tenant and we are in a we are in agreeance with them like in our uh lease document or whatever that hey as long as you sign this lease and as long as you you know pay rent and everything we will deliver as a landlord all these things to you and make sure 114 00:31:46.640 --> 00:32:01.760 you can get your certificate of occupancy with the city and make all the requirements that the city is asking us to do. So we are basically in agreeance with the city on the recommendations and we are in agreeance with the tenant that 115 00:32:01.760 --> 00:32:17.440 it will be fulfilled. So then they can basically have the certificate of occupancy if and I'm not sure if I said it like legally correctly but nope. >> I think that that's pretty clear. You did very well. Yeah. >> Thank you. You have a lease with the tenant 116 00:32:17.440 --> 00:32:35.279 >> and property owner is you're covering the recommendations the >> Exactly. >> Okay. All right. All right. If there are no more questions, then we will move to a public hearing. All right. So, we'll open up a public hearing in planning case 26-3 23, 117 00:32:35.279 --> 00:32:51.679 excuse me. uh the use and dimensional flexibility for the K through8 school at Family Center Mall, 2891, Rapids, LLC. Is there anyone here who wishes to speak on this matter? All right, please approach the 118 00:32:51.679 --> 00:33:12.480 microphone. State your name and address for the record. My name, excuse me, my name is David Ecmom and at 11206 Crocus Street Northwest in Rapids. So, I have a prepared statement and then 119 00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:28.880 I maybe have a few questions. Is that appropriate? >> Uh, if you can limit it to just a couple minutes, that would be great. >> My family and I lived have lived in Kunabas for at that at that address for 42 years. When we first uh moved at that time, the Family Center Mall was a 120 00:33:28.880 --> 00:33:45.039 vibrant mall with a variety of stores including Red Owl, Temple Book had a daughter that worked there. Minnesota Fabric, Old Country Buffet had a daughter that worked there, Mr. Te's Radio Shack, and so on and so on. Over the years, we've seen the 1960 Mall 121 00:33:45.039 --> 00:34:02.480 deteriorate into an eyes sore. I agree with you, Ray, Commissioner Knoblock. It is true that the Grand Slam has helped keep some people interested in coming to the mall. Thank you, Grand Slam. As we know, District 11 has been there and has helped a limited amount of 122 00:34:02.480 --> 00:34:19.760 people at that location. These two groups have kept the parking and outside directly adjacent to their entries in fair condition. But even though the building was painted some time ago, for the most part, the building and the outside parking lots 123 00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:37.839 are in disarray. I I read on this uh discussion thing. It says repair deteriorating sections of the asphalt parking lot. The applicant indicates that some sections have 5 to seven years of life remaining. I say no. 124 00:34:37.839 --> 00:34:54.800 It's it's in terrible condition. The inside of the building, with the exception of district 11 space and grand slam, looks the same as it did in the 1960s. The building needs a facelift if not to be torn down. I read in another little subject another 125 00:34:54.800 --> 00:35:12.240 I read in the discussion section of the planning commission agenda that the star of the north academy plans to have 550 students by the year 2029. 550 students plus 100. You said 50 in your presentation. It's 100. That's 660 along 126 00:35:12.240 --> 00:35:29.200 with buses, cars picking up, dropping off. I don't believe that 113th Avenue and Crooked Lake Boulevard could handle the traffic without significant road improvements. There you go. I don't know if that's a county road or or or a city road. There's that one when you turn east on 127 00:35:29.200 --> 00:35:46.480 100 off of Crooked Lake onto 112th. There's no turning lane and it's a disaster. It's an accident waiting to happen. In conclusion, schools belong in school zones. This area would be better utilized as an area that could accommodate and probably is already 128 00:35:46.480 --> 00:36:03.040 zoned for commercial purposes. It should be kept that way and the city of Rapids should keep moving in that direction. It's been a good start with the new construction on the corner of Rapids Boulevard and Crooked Lake Boulevard. And I'm glad that you did what you've 129 00:36:03.040 --> 00:36:17.920 done with the hockey rink. That's fantastic. But I think you owe it to our community to do something more than have a charter school, which is somewhat questionable what the alternative motive 130 00:36:17.920 --> 00:36:33.440 is in that location. Let's continue to move in that positive commercial area or that that we're that we've headed that you've headed there. Let's continue in that direction. And just think the property and business taxes 131 00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:53.040 that could be collected if that would continue to be uh designated as commercial. I appreciate your your uh uh thinking on this and I appreciate the fact that you care about that area. I do too and I 132 00:36:53.040 --> 00:37:09.119 plan on living there for as long as we can. Right. >> Thank you. >> Excellent. Thank you very much. Is there anyone else here that wishes to speak? Anyone else who wishes to speak on this case? 133 00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:23.839 All right, seeing none, we'll close the public hearing and we will now limit discussion to um the commission. Commission um thoughts that anyone like to open with Commissioner Ronak? 134 00:37:23.839 --> 00:37:41.839 >> Yeah, I'm still trying to get my hand around this thing. it the owner is asking us or the city that he has a potential tenant that wants to lease the space for a school. 135 00:37:41.839 --> 00:37:57.839 So what are we really approving here? Madam Chair, Mr. Bar or Butcher Con, sorry. >> Commissioner Ronak, I would think of this, you're you're relatively savvy in the real estate stuff. I'd think of this 136 00:37:57.839 --> 00:38:14.800 as a build to suit arrangement loosely. Our agreement is with the potential purchasers company. So, we control him. That's all we get to do. We don't 137 00:38:14.800 --> 00:38:30.720 control his tenant um or the charter school. That's handled by the the right state agency that handles the density of students and what can be done at charter schools and places that receives charter school money. But that think of this more as a build to suit. They want to 138 00:38:30.720 --> 00:38:47.920 use it as a school. Um the applicant does and they're willing to build and do the things we're talking about in order to use it as a school. It it it's not a perfect fit. It's not a perfect metaphor, but that's the way to think of it. >> Yeah, I understand that. But to me, I 139 00:38:47.920 --> 00:39:03.599 would think the school would be here asking for the ability to put a school there. Now, he they are doing the work for the structure and the the property and everything like that. That's fine. 140 00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:19.520 But the most of this thing here is centered around a school there, which really isn't there yet. and he hopes to have a tenant that's going to do a school. Now, won't they have to come back here and say, "I want to put a school and this is what I want to do to 141 00:39:19.520 --> 00:39:36.240 it." Uh, and this is how I want to do it and the building inspection and people would have to >> Madam Chair, >> Mr. Bkonei, >> Commissioner Rak, it's a great follow-up question. I I'd tell you that your approval tonight isn't necessarily tied 142 00:39:36.240 --> 00:39:51.760 to the Star of the North school. It's for that use of that specific space as a school. So that's why the applicant is the property owner because if the star of the north academy doesn't want to come, he could probably go find it. He 143 00:39:51.760 --> 00:40:10.079 could rent it to a Noah Henipin, say, or someone else and they could use it in that way. And so if we had just the Star of the North Academy here, it would be tied to them specifically. they don't necessarily have the ability 144 00:40:10.079 --> 00:40:26.640 to do the things that will need to be done on the property unless they're granted that within a lease agreement that would have to come from the applicant. So, while they could be here and be a part of the application process and that sort of thing, in this instance, I don't think they're needed. 145 00:40:26.640 --> 00:40:42.560 >> Mr. Buchi, is it fair to say that this packet or our our application could have been presented to us without the name of any school and the same conditions? You know, if the request is to be able to rent the space out to a school, would 146 00:40:42.560 --> 00:40:57.440 the conditions still have applied essentially regardless of the who? I think if you start tweaking facts like that, Madam Chair, it gets really hard for me and I think for staff to tell you how that 147 00:40:57.440 --> 00:41:13.760 would work because while I tell you the school any school could go in there if you approve it the truth as we're approving if that happens the information before the commission but let's tweak the facts and turn it into a different kind of school that has 148 00:41:13.760 --> 00:41:30.720 more kids, less kids, things like that. >> Sure. Then as staff we could tell this applicant, hey that's not what we approved, that's not how we approved it. That sort of thing. So it's a hard question when you start tweaking the facts in that way. If it came as a completely anonymous, we want to use 149 00:41:30.720 --> 00:41:43.920 this as a school, we would look at that and go, well, we're not going to be able to assess >> understood >> the things we need to those conditions and of approval that we need to. >> Excellent. Okay. Thank you. Other 150 00:41:43.920 --> 00:42:00.640 thoughts, comments uh for commission. >> Um Madam Chair, >> I appreciate your comments too and from Mr. Brown and and Mr. Behringer. That clarifies a lot for me and I'm I'm 151 00:42:00.640 --> 00:42:19.119 looking at the recommendation. We're um use flexibility is why we're here. Um, and we saw the conditions that are being met to the satisfaction of the city staff. So I don't want to delve into the school 152 00:42:19.119 --> 00:42:35.920 because we're use I mean we're approving a school usage. But on the other hand, if the school decided to not do that, um a commercial entity could come into that site too at 153 00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:50.560 some point. Um but again, I want to focus on the use flexibility. The reason we're here Chair Schmoki, >> Commissioner Nel. >> Uh, I agree with Commissioner Casey and 154 00:42:50.560 --> 00:43:08.800 I just wanted to add to it. Um, I any improvement to that. Uh, uh, as the potential owner is antis is planning to, I think would be welcome to the area. Of course, I'd love to see 155 00:43:08.800 --> 00:43:25.119 something like a baseball or football stadium put in or something, but that's not the situation here or uh medical research facility or something in that case. But in in regards to the property and what's there and the potential 156 00:43:25.119 --> 00:43:41.119 improvements and the productive use of that, uh, I would like to add to Commissioner Casey's that I think it would be a good improvement to the location, it being right on Rapids Boulevard, I think it would be if it 157 00:43:41.119 --> 00:43:58.480 would be would be more functional and less of an eyesore, I would be more than happy enough. So >> that's all >> I'd like to just add um I I have been in situations um on a previous commission 158 00:43:58.480 --> 00:44:14.720 where we have had a potential buyer bring something forward. And I I really do think that the improvements that are being um that are that are being proposed here and that will be part of the recommendation are critical for that 159 00:44:14.720 --> 00:44:29.119 lot. I think everybody in this room agrees that it's an eyesore. Um, so while we would always feel more comfortable if the improvements could be made before we make a use 160 00:44:29.119 --> 00:44:48.160 recommendation. he the the timing to leave this to make sure that this building doesn't go vacant over a winter um or for a long period of time is something we should take into consideration when we're thinking about that timing of putting 161 00:44:48.160 --> 00:45:05.040 this recommendation forward before the purchase has happened before the lease agreements are in place um or you know they're too far down the talk so I do think that this is going to change the um the view of that corner of a parking 162 00:45:05.040 --> 00:45:23.599 lot that is incredibly um dire to look at uh on a heavy traffic area. Um I want to address a little bit about the traffic flow. Um I do think that you know looking at the traffic flow in these maps that the bus traffic um does 163 00:45:23.599 --> 00:45:39.520 make sense flowing through. Um, so I don't have concerns that were raised during some of the commentary about that heavy um, traffic that will come through during those periods of of time. Um, it does from our packet and the map here 164 00:45:39.520 --> 00:45:56.160 appear that the flows make a lot of um, a lot of sense and uh, and so I I I think that that kind of the timing of things just gets a little different because of the situation that we're in. So, I just wanted to say that for the 165 00:45:56.160 --> 00:46:12.800 record. >> Thank you. Um, I guess, um, if I can just weigh in a little bit here, I guess the the thoughts going through my head, um, are that as much as I see this as an opportunity to um, improve the site, 166 00:46:12.800 --> 00:46:27.440 right? I'm looking through this list of conditions and whether or not a school moved into this site or not. That list is something ideally that um at at a minimum um would be welcome to have that 167 00:46:27.440 --> 00:46:44.480 building improved um to then bring in uh new business of whatever um you know that may be. I think I'm I'm concerned because I don't feel like this site is really adequate for a school, especially 168 00:46:44.480 --> 00:47:01.520 when we're talking about bringing 500 students in there. Okay, 500 plus students in there, growing it to that. Um I I'm looking at these very separately, right? I we're being asked to do a use flexibility to allow a school, you know, to move in recognizing 169 00:47:01.520 --> 00:47:17.680 that this property is blight. I mean, it's it's really not in a great condition. And um I'm going to steal um a phrase that was used by um the gentleman uh here that that voiced during um uh public um comments. Um and 170 00:47:17.680 --> 00:47:32.640 that, you know, schools belong in a school zone and I don't feel like this is a school zone. When I start thinking about the number of students that will be there and you have K through eight, you have um the businesses that will attract them to be crossing Rapids 171 00:47:32.640 --> 00:47:50.720 Boulevard um to go to Arby's or to other, you know, the Walgreens stores, etc. Um now you've got increased foot traffic of young children on a very busy road. Um, so I I'm just I I think and I'm trying to be very very um you know, 172 00:47:50.720 --> 00:48:09.200 objective in that all of these things are welcome, you know, improvements that I think um would be amazing to have done at a bare minimum. I think that there are other improvements um that could definitely be done to um draw in um more 173 00:48:09.200 --> 00:48:26.079 businesses that maybe are also something that the community can um engage with just like um again we talked about the history of that building and the types of business businesses that used to be there um to draw more traffic that way. Um, I just personally don't I'm I'm not 174 00:48:26.079 --> 00:48:44.960 really in favor of uh use flexibility um to draw children to that corner. I just don't feel like it's a good fit. >> Would it be okay if I >> just commented on that a bit? >> Sure. >> Are you familiar with the Pernaces school on 610 and um is it Zach? 175 00:48:44.960 --> 00:49:01.280 >> I think it's Zachary Lane in Maple Grove Pernaces on 610 in um Zachary. They built out a school inside of a strip mall that was becoming a dying strip mall and it's become very successful. It's a beautiful looking building. Um 176 00:49:01.280 --> 00:49:16.000 it's on 610 and a very busy road. I do believe it's Zachary um lane and they have those same conditions. I do understand the thought process between having about having schools located inside of buildings that were built for schools. 177 00:49:16.000 --> 00:49:31.680 I'm assuming um or as you're saying schools zoned or um areas that are already zoned for schools. Um but it is pretty common for schools to be even traditional district-led schools to be moving into 178 00:49:31.680 --> 00:49:47.760 um into strip mall type buildings. Alternative schools are located um expansion buildings are located in many strip malls. So while I do respect the the logic there, I think that there is a broad use case across the Twin Cities um 179 00:49:47.760 --> 00:50:03.359 for putting schools into malls, I also from my perspect my perspective in my opinion is um a lot of these malls are they're they're empty and so if the um you know if the option 180 00:50:03.359 --> 00:50:21.680 is for putting something that will bring a tenant into the building and it's something that each one of us have to be comfortable with. But if if the option is bringing a a tenant who's ready to come into a building into the building 181 00:50:21.680 --> 00:50:38.960 um or the other option is it potentially sits empty for an unknown period of time while they source another tenant. I do think that it behooves us to think about how to support the new buyer in making this building exist or we are also 182 00:50:38.960 --> 00:50:53.359 looking at the fact that that building may be sit empty. So that's kind of my counter. >> Thank you, Commissioner Ron. >> Um I think one of the things we got to look at here is we have a buyer that's got a building that's not doing very 183 00:50:53.359 --> 00:51:09.920 well. he has a potential person that is willing to rent it. If they rent it, there's a good chance he's going to improve the facility, the lot, and things like that. Uh he there probably is a limited amount of people that be 184 00:51:09.920 --> 00:51:28.559 willing to rent that big space. Uh so in a sense if he can find a tenant that's willing to do it at a big portion of this I think it behooves us to help a land own property owner or a mall owner to get a 185 00:51:28.559 --> 00:51:46.480 tenant in there to help us improve the neighborhood. Now I'm not comfortable with the way this process has been going. It's sort of a little ass backwards, but uh I think what we're doing here is he has a potential tenant. He'd like to get it done. Uh there's no 186 00:51:46.480 --> 00:52:05.440 other alternative. And I think we got to work with him and help him get that that neighborhood cleaned up a little bit. 550 students running around there. Michael get a little benefit out of them. Uh so in some respect I think this 187 00:52:05.440 --> 00:52:22.240 thing should move on or move along rather. Thank you. Is there any more comments? Any more discussion? Would let somebody like to entertain a motion? I would like to make a motion to 188 00:52:22.240 --> 00:52:40.000 approve planning commission item 2623 with the um with the stated recommendations the 11 recommendations plus to be done within the two years um and then the additional two um listed on the recommendation 189 00:52:40.000 --> 00:52:56.559 sheet. >> We have a first. We have a second. >> I'll second. >> We have a first and a second. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> I. All those opposed? I >> I >> The motion passes 190 00:52:56.559 --> 00:53:12.880 and this is a recommendation of the planning commission. Uh and the decision will be by city council on August 3rd. All right. So any So that that ends that. So there's no other business or is 191 00:53:12.880 --> 00:53:32.559 there other business to discuss? And good luck. Thank you very much. Great presentation and thank you so much for taking our questions. >> Good luck. You got two years to fix that. >> Tick tock. >> Madam Chair, I just wanted to bring up one upcoming case. We did receive a 192 00:53:32.559 --> 00:53:48.880 application for um Vermac Window Manufacturing uh to be located um on a on a vacant 1.2 acre site. Um it's down here in the south part of town. Um shown here in the map near Holly Street. Um we're just kind of starting our process 193 00:53:48.880 --> 00:54:04.480 of of analyzing that um application, but that'll be ready for you at the August meeting. >> Excellent. >> Is that in the industrial park? >> That is. Yep. That's correct. Yep. It's industrial zone there. >> Excellent. >> And that was all we had. 194 00:54:04.480 --> 00:54:18.880 >> So the one item. Okay. >> Yep. Just the one item. >> Yep. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Any other business? Any other comments? >> Make a motion to adjurnn. >> We have a first to adjurnn. Do we have a second? We have a first and a second. 195 00:54:18.880 --> 00:54:30.119 That motion uh is approved or uh what is passes. Thank you. And uh we can adjourn. Thank you very much. Thank you.