##VIDEO ID:0ZHpIjj1dN8## d want to do that all right this historic preservation Commission meeting being held on January 21st 2025 at 7:00 p.m. statement of adequate notice pursuant to the Sunshine Law adequate notice in accordance with the open public meeting Act njsa 10 col 4 heon 6 was provided on December 20th 2024 of this meeting's date time and place the agenda was mailed to the cranberry press in Trenton Times posted on the Township bolon Board and mailed to those requesting personal notice and filed by the municipal clerk roll call and volunteer hours Miss sum here uh three hours Miss Ryan here here two hours Mr Guyer here two hours Mr H here one hour Miss Marlo Mr Sabo here 10 hours and Mr delini here one and a half hours thank you all right we have a qu we're just giving Brandon a hard time for only working one hour extra that is so uncharacteristic what's going on okay at this time I'm going to open the floor for nominations for chair of HPC for 20125 do you have any nominations I'm GNA nominate okay we have Jennifer on the books is there any other nominations okay then at this time the floor is closed for chair for 2025 of HPC uh roll call for agative for Meer for chair for 2025 Miss sumeer yes Miss Ryan yes Mr guy yes Mr H yes and Miss Marlo yes okay one more year that's it that's it do we have limits I don't think so okay great um so I think that our first order of business is that we have a uh an applic right oh we do the vice chair nomination that's right okay so um do we have nominations for vice chair Nom any other nominations then I guess I think we we we we choose Sue just roll call for vice chair for to Miss Ryan missm yes Miss Ryan yes Mr Guyer yes Mr H yes and Miss Marlo yes right thank you okay then um our administrative officer secretary I nominate Robin I nominate Robin okay so roll call um I think we would have this second so I think we need a second a second a second thank you all right missm yes Miss Ryan yes Mr Guyer yes Mr H yes and Miss Marlo yes thank you everyone okay next we have our I know next we have our calendar dates which is in our packet so I guess we would not ask if anyone sees any uh significant conflicts um I did want want to mention the only one that's not the third T Tuesday of the month is in November yeah that one yeah second week instead exactly there's no other days so when you guys put it in your calendars yeah I go to the njlm conference what's the's November 19 so I go to the NM conference last year I had to go right after this meeting and I got there at almost midnight I don't want to do that again you don't mind I mean if you guys don't mind I just think it's also better because like at this time of year we're always like racing to finish things I'd rather like have the meeting earlier versus later thank you ohce okay yeah and um I think I have a conflict with um let me just double check yeah I I'm not going to be available on the 15th I'm going to be on away okay um so we can hold it without me and that's Tuesday the 15th April yeah okay so on favor of the calendar for 2025 say I please I thank you I think we already voted on nember but awesome okay great next we have our membera on and um appointment so we have Mr Christopher here to join us anyone else yes okay perfect congratulations congratulations do we vote on that as well no okay all right fantastic welcome welcome Robert um and we're happy that Davis still with us so I think what we can do now is move on to our application um we have a concept review for nine Parkplace East some familiar faces hello uh I'm Bill Giddings the architect I'm Tor Pelin the homeowner so this is Anna Drago's uh old house on the corner of mwood in Parkplace East uh you purchased the house ballot in June yeah um so um they are uh you know doing a great job kind of cleaning up the property and working on it uh the two main projects that they want to tackle is you the most the house is as you all know is a beautiful historic house um but the areas that are not historic are the kitchen and and the the the bathroom slash back off this area so want to take advantage of that and make a uh a kitchen that's more functional for today's needs rather than the 1970s or whenever it was last done uh and also master bathroom um get laundry upstairs and and have proper closets for the master bed so we do need variances um you know we're not here formally um we're here for a concept uh but we are I think pretty far along and you know we're pushing further ahead with the design than we usually do at this point because we want we need to go for variances but we wanted to come here first get your input um hopefully get your endorsement so we can file for the variances for the sides uh side yard setback and the uh the fence um so the variances uh because the the property has three fronts it's a challenging property um the the the Wesley Place um you know it's almost more of a side alley than it is a front but zoning wise is treated as a front so along along that side is you know where we going to extend the kitchen back they want to add a side entry into the kitchen mudro and they want to um sort of clean up the backyard area pool fence area and then in doing that there's an existing addition that was done maybe 10 years ago no 2008 I think is what they had said8 okay um and that was a bathroom full bathroom on the first floor um laundry area area but it's it's it's a little it's kind of odd because it's a beautiful property and it cuts off all of the interior space for the living living area and they have two young kids so you can't the whole pool yard area is cut off where you don't see them because of you know all that addition so they want to rebuild that into kind of the bre breakfast nooks sunro area and it will open up the the dining room in the main house to to you know have views in the backyard um so on C1 the first page you can see the existing survey and then the you know proposed uh site plan below as you can see on the on the existing survey there's a chain link fence um around the pool the pool is kind of is at at an angle which makes it even also a little bit odder in terms of of the fence variances um there is a blow up on of the site plan on A- zero uh we kind of treated this as the master plan um eventually they would like to do a garage off Maplewood that's not going to be officially part of this application or the variance because uh that zoning variances are only good for a year they won't be ready to do that part of the project but we want to kind of show you the whole plan uh so the I the idea is extend out the kitchen make that back bathroom room mudro area uh into eating area sun room kind of area better access to Center Hall goes right out to the backyard so the house flows um ex ex extend the the concrete Paving of the pool to the house uh have some outdoors sitting in in eating area get a little seating area that's just gets isn't in the shade uh to to look at the pool it's on the Wesley side of the pool and then a um right now the um inside stair to the basement is probably less than two feet wide so they want to have an outdoor um stairway down to the basement and then a add a porch small porch similar to what's on the other house at the corner of West Westminster and Wesley um that will be kind of their their mudroom entry so you know uh we extend the sidewalk that currently ends at the corner along Parkplace East over to that uh new entry the new entry comes in and it takes you right into the kitchen slash mudroom area which is to your right as you come in the door uh with a powder room we save the uh old staircase going down stairs uh that's where we do remove the old chimney um and uh the fireplace is an old um ornamental stove in there um in order to make all the plan work um we can only push the addition out so far because of the existing pool um so you know it's uh it's kind of working pretty nicely in terms of got everything that they wanted in in a compact area adding as little as possible to the house the I just could I ask I'm sorry to interrupt but um just I'm not very good at looking at these um plans um because I'm not an architect but um so in um C1 the second uh the picture that says propose what's what's the original footprint of the house versus the new footprint because I know a z is a new footprint of the house right so the easiest so if you look at the c-1 drawing yes you can see the hatched area the part that's red down below yes that is the existing kitchen uh let me explain a little bit bathroom so the kitchen had maybe about a six foot addition at some point over a crawl space it's got cinder block foundation so probably 30s 40s 50s I'm guessing we're going to tear that off because that's kind of substandard construction and that hatch so that hatched area you see includes the existing one-story bump out of the kitchen torn off and then all the new construction so if you look at the plan the the the rectangle that's below the red hashed is that is that the addition from before uh exactly the the long rectangle is the previous Edition that's the 2008 mudroom bathroom hallway so the mudroom bathroom thing that's that so that's that rectangle there yes the red doesn't exist right now some of it does it exists to about where that other rectangle probably a couple feet shy of where that other rectangle is okay um but it was in addition to the original house is what we were saying so if you look at this top plan you can see that that the the old Edition stuck out maybe six8 feet past the um the 2008 edition if you look at the plan below we're coming out about four plus feet past the new edition new 2008 Edition okay okay we have to tear off a bit more because like Bill's saying it it's weird there is like an odd angle in the kitchen where it's not quite the same width and nothing quite fits in the second floor is sagging because the beams aren't quite right so the original with the the original part of the house the footprint of the original House of the house as it is right today is right here next to the picture is that what the footprint of the house is now okay that's I was trying to get okay so yeah it's funky it's very weird in all of its shapes and it's not very yeah that's just the first floor the the second floor steps back and has issues with like the roof where because they had a roof line and then they dropped a roof line underneath it it holds water and is an ice skating ring currently and that's where we approved the thing before where you guys were doing work on the roof shape it a bit better but in working with Bill we've decided just take the whole thing off and make it all the same okay and then so and the the stuff that we talked about last time you guys were here with the chimneys is that now no longer happening or is still taking the chimne down both Chim both chimneys yes but not right now right you're you're saying when the roof is they need to come down unfortunately when you look inside of the walls they're just bursting apart yeah and we talked about to do that but then you we talked about you're going to still kind of you know I guess fake it where you're going to have the we are showing FSE chimney the false chimney okay good toic thei old yes okay good yes thank you forther clarifying um so since we've thought maybe gone back to to D1 D1 are the existing floor plans so if you look at drawing zero uh you can see the main house original house um originally my guess is it was probably a smaller house that was added on to but early on it has a a full basement on on the left side and a cross base on the right um but you can see where it says cross space the dash lines those are the that's the I'm gonna say 1930s 40s 50s center block con you know addition that was done to the kitchen that we're going to tear off and then kind of rebuild properly with a full basement um the first floor is you see all the dash lines that's the mudro and the bathroom that's going to come out out we're going to take everything down to the first floor framing leave the foundations and then build new walls above that and then on the second floor uh there's the hall the bathroom that opens up to the hallway uh the old service stair um and kind of an office where everything kind of sags dramatically because when they did this back whenever they didn't have steel and they just used a bunch of 2 by10 and just not enough structure to support the house above basically so we're going to kind of fix all that at the same time um so going back to drawing a Zer so we we need a setback variance uh from 15 feet to 8 feet for the porch Edition um and then we need a variance for the fence ing around the pool so when I get rid of the chain link fence some chain link fence or some Stockade Fence it's kind of uh um a lot of overgrowth in that area so the idea is to clean that up make an orthagonal fence landscape it on the Wesley Place side and on their side so um it looks nice so it's it's more screening you know back on that road there's several garages there's Plumbing trucks there's you know it's it's um type one type two fence would that be black the type one so the the type two the idea is that the type two fence would be the uh the black fence so that it doesn't visually it doesn't cut their yard in half so they you know they have young kids they want to make as much use of the whole yard as they can but they need to have the fence you know for the pool so the idea is to do the the aluminum black fence because that's as open as possible and then to do the Stockade along Wesley uh and the neighbor they've spoken with the neighbor neighbor is going to come to the variance meeting and be part of those discussions for the variance as well her house is very very close to our pool as well because it was previously one property so you know we do feel bad that you know she's like she can reach her arm out basically to like where the fence line is um so it is good for her too because like we said we have small children in a pool and there's a lot of noise and commotion so for her to have some privacy as well in her yard so I see two wooden fence types the difference so is the more solid fence uh between the two properties or so you know with this being concept you know and um basically so what I did is I I just included a bunch of f um and just for discussion for this meeting um and um the First Fence you know I sort of included is kind of what meets the zoning requirements and it's design standers unfortunately but it's not a beautiful fence whenever you space pick us out like that it's you know they've been done in town they don't look very historical quite frankly um so have to go for a variance for the setback for the fence from the property line as well as the dens the density and the closure of the fence so the idea with the with the solid fences is that we're going to landscape both side of them and just make them go away but get the Privacy um the you know approprate in terms of a the idea is more to make it part of the nature and the Landscaping rather than a fence you see the black fence we thought was more appropriate to the house it's more similar to a rod iron fence you know that you see through and yes yeah so that was our logic in terms of why we have the two different types well of the fences that you're showing I mean the black fences to me fine for the yard facing yeah we're thinking that's the fence you'll see you know because that'll be on the interior side so when you're coming down Maplewood you could see the nicer fence right um because that one won't be as landscaped again to try and make the yard feel connected between the pool side and the grass side right I think of the more solid fences the one that's at least uh six foot high by 8 foot the one with the slight opening between the boards um would seem a little bit less kind of heavy-handed or whatever than than the last one you show which is just absolutely solid and no you know no kind of view at all through it I think it might be a little too wallik as opposed to fence so that's where I would see you lean more toward the I would lean more that way yeah I mean you're still not going to really see anything through it but it just seems a little less heavy-handed sure okay so just so I understand you're having your the goal is to have one the black fence on is it going to be around the entire um side just on the Maplewood side just on the Maplewood side okay and then everything uh toward the right it and on the Wesley side Wesley to the um yes to the the Northern plan North and plan East but it's it's really kind of North is that way um everything to the right and the top is is the wood fence no so okay so wood fence on Wesley place and the back by the neighbor yes and then on Maple Wood is the black fence yes what is is there a fence around the pool that is the enclosure that's the fence around the pool fence is the two fences yeah we're not going to remove the Hedge r that exists that is a bit of a property line that's currently there that's all staying okay um this would be a fence sort of internal to the yard right now it's a six foot wooden fence um so that's what's there currently that kind of again can't see either side when you're out there so if the kids are in the pool you can't be in the yard because you can't see anything through it at all um so yeah yeah um can you talk about the elevations a little bit so moving to A1 that's just the proposed floor plans in terms of the stare down to the the kitchen mudroom and then the second floor is you layout of the master bedroom suite bathroom walk-in closet laundry A2 are the elevations um so detail three the west elevation that that faces Wesley uh so that's the proposed uh porch entry to the the kitchen mudroom area uh there's an existing window there that's been changed at one point to to a smaller window within the same opening um so that's not a historic window uh but we keep it in the same place and and in the same trim they shortened it up for the for the kitchen at one point um then everything you see to the left of the of the two and a half story uh is the is the kitchen Edition um we the and then we're just before if you look at the picture in Center Center bottom you can see the old kitchen bump out uh was a one story piece with brackets and corness so we're really taking those those lines and making everything in the back that height simplify it um with the three Windows over the sink um and then the the the old bathroom SL mudroom area making that into all windows um which is kind of gives them everything they wanted in terms of a possible kind of screen in porch kind of mud room and then kind of gave them the the eating area breakfast NOK as well so one window first floor with new door is side door ask you taking that window out yes but it's not a historic window it was originally a historic window but it's already been removed and shortened so just this is more sight Planet but where do you park we park in the front of the house because there's no driveway or any other private parking so that's park on the street in front of the house we park in front and then you have to go around the porch through the dining room in you know to like the kitchen and the mud room back that way so it's a little you have to walk through the formal finished parts of the house to get to a mud room basically or go all the way around the back to get into the M yeah ultimately you'll do something would you right but that's also why we're extending the con the sidewalk from corner of Parkplace East to this new entry can you put a gravel driveway where the proposed future garage is can you do that now as of right just to have a place to park off Street where all the bamboo came out yeah where we took the yeah we haven't been that distressed by the lack of it was only kind of it's only challenging on like cranberry day when we have no parking you know like we end up parking like you know half a mile away um but it it works you know we can live like this obviously there's worse things in the world um but it is definitely will be better so there's there there's room to adjust a that yeah I have questions about the west elevation that faces Wesley um the the staircase down to the basement is there going to be a wall to on the side that CH faces the street yeah so it would be a you know stuck OED wall with a blue stone cap on it and then we're showing Landscaping in front of that as well okay um and uh I it's very well integrated the design of this addition into the house one of the design guidelines is in regards to massing is that if it's possible to make the new construction discernable from the original building and in the photo of the current west elevation that the addition in the rear is very subordinate to the the main part of the building could you highlight some of the things that you've done in this design that would help someone observing it distinguish the old from the new really the main thing is that that will very wide cornerboard will continue and come all the way down um so you know because the porches and you almost rather than the two budding each other the addition is kind of sticking out but then with the first floor porch it's also coming out so you'll see all that almost like the two overlapping essentially okay so um the windows in the um elevations um these are how you plan on and doing it where they're distinctly different from the other windows in the rest of the house yes and and the logic some of the reasons of that is you know letting it be different you know it's not a traditional facade in terms of a window here window there they want more glass and view um you know the three above the sink casement is much easier to open than a double HT where you're trying to reach over the sink and open that up and also the Double H gets kind of odd when it's three feet up in the air you know um so rather than trying to make it look traditional just you know letting it be the addition and kind of the function of the inside yeah I think that also kind of points to what you were mentioning not trying to make it look like yeah I think that's like actually the biggest feature that really shows how it's it it differentiates the addition from the house the windows will be simulated divided lights uh they not divided lights they would just just be well the simulated they'll have muttons on the inside they all have mutt no muttons none of our Windows yeah of one I'm just confused because the some of the documents in right did show that package show divided lights yeah they they would be the Marvin elev window can you talk about the double doors that are terminating the main hallway like what what style will they be so those were just really looking to be French doors you know no divided lights again just glass really giving you know light and and view through the house you know through that new space out into the yard it's very similar to what we have in the front too that's what I was going to ask so that's what we were trying to do and there's actually a stained glass window that is in one of the walls right now between the dining room and the 2008 Edition and so we were even trying to preserve that and take it and put it over that double door so that it really matches the front because the front is the two French doors with a stained glass on the top okay so we thought it'd be nice if we could mirror that in the back as well I'm not 100% sure we can salvage that window because it's kind of bowed a little oddly outside is more you'll see from the inside we still would have a new window on the outside and it'll be protected yeah so use it as a trans over see that have the addition that sounds nice all the trim would be poly as um the siding uh what is your foundation going to be and is it just are you doing SL on grade or it has a full full basement it'll be full basement um but it would just be a parched um block Foundation okay we sort of need the full basement there because it's really the only access point because the front of the house is right on the street obviously can't put an entrance there the other side is all historic crawl space can't go there and the back of the house is the pool so we can't access the basement from there either so that's part of the reason why we need that variance to be on that side it's the only side we can access the basement and you're saying it is considered a a Main Street Front even though it's essentially an alley perspective yeah okay just I I I was kind of thinking about the same thing um it needs to be on the Wesley side I'm trying to wrap my head around what you were just saying because my initial thought was like if you did it on the opposite side on the maple wood side that would be a crawl space there's no basement crawl space on that whole side of the house so you can't do an entrance there you'd have to dig the basement or you could just not do the basement thing you could just do an A A mudroom entrance but you'd have to reconfigure everything and well the hard part is that's the utilities are you know like the water heater and the furnace and stuff the first plumbers already had to put in a new furnace and they were not super thrilled with how they had to get into there and everything so um it makes sense to be able to access it sort of on that side okay yeah and if if you look at the site plan you we're doing a little headed R right in front of the wall you're not no one's going to even know that it's there it goes down Wesley yeah um I did look at historic Maps a while ago for this property and there I believe there was a garage I don't know it it was on Wesley it was not on Maplewood which kind of reinforces the this is an Alleyway idea that's really interesting I I forget if it was uh in between your neighbor's house and yours or behind it or what but it was access from Wesley Place I know the pool was put in in 1980 but you know before that pool wasn't there it would be the place to put the garage right that was one of Bill's first questions was how attach are you to the pool how good is the pool but I have to say I mean I went by the property the other day and you know with the red that red one-story building that has the whatever studio in it um you know I personally think it would be fine to put a garage on Maplewood you know obviously designed the right way and all that which I know do I agree I think having a garage on Maplewood makes all the sense in the world we have much more room now that all that moving yeah and there's you know we've kind of laid contextually I think it could work scale-wise it's a one story it would be a one story building next to a one story it it' be fine well we only want to put like a one car slightly extended one we don't want to do anything too crazy like I don't even think we have enough space we don't want to take up that much yard to even do a two car yeah so we preserve the yard yeah yeah I think that would be fine far as I'm anyone have any other questions or comments on the concepts I have a question I want to highlight maybe a logistical problem that I wanted to to bring up because I don't know the answer to it uh so if the application says um this isn't the an application but if when the commission eventually has to see an application and it says that the chimneys will be placed um in a few years I think is kind of what that's indicating so um we haven't follow this through yet but the roof is the roof is in decent condition on the main part of the house the roof problem we're truly having is that lower part that we're redoing so we do want to redo the main roof but it's like an additional $40,000 to do it right now and so that's why we're saying we don't want to do the whole roof currently if we don't have to because the budget's you know pretty high as it is um so but we have to take the chimneys down to do the renovation we need that space so that's why we were saying maybe we just patch the roof for a while and then when we redo the roof within the next couple years is when the faux chimneys would be able to be installed did we already do like we already heard an a formal application earlier this year and how did we leave it what was the determination we left it that they were going to do the faux chimneys when they the RO do in frame and stuck out they were just doing the kitchen and dealing with the the chimneys that were falling into the kitchen on the interior so this would be similar well so the reason I bring it up and that I don't know the answer to Is if their application says you know we're going to take down the chimneys and we'll replace them but it will be in a few years does that mean like a building permit has to stay open for that time or like how how does that actually get handled because I don't know that we could yes take down the chimneys and then later have a separate application that says put back chimneys well that might be because you have two years for when this application is approved to complete the work so sometimes projects get delayed and it gets extended so you have to come just come back and just you know resubmit an application just for the gym what's the roofing material is it like it's just a r and so when we had initially talked we had said we'll do what is it TPO or something yeah EPDM or something yeah something like that so it's not construction wise you know it's easier to patch that type of roof with a flat patch for now right and then when build when doing the whole roof over build build the chimney and Flash that with the new TPO properly into that's why we're thinking that way and we want to add some insulation with it too which also makes it a slightly bit more expensive project because in this we found out we have no insulation in this house shock no brick well we thought we'd at least have like brick nogging or something there's nothing so that's wall insulation ceiling insulation or everywhere nowhere no at all so the so the only thing I'm trying to think through is like um you know and I I haven't had this happen in the time I've been on the committee where we have someone who says well like you have our word like five years from now we're gonna like do it and then what happens if like they decide to move away you have if you don't get it done yeah within the two years then you just come back the concept has already been discussed yeah and just put an application in to do the faux chimneys and you know but what happens if I'm just playing Devil's Advocate what happens if they take out the the chimneys there's no chimneys um two years goes by and they decide to like move Town out of town they have to come back no matter what to replace the roof by your ordinance so they have to come back at that point no matter what and get approval for the new roof they they have to do the you don't need a building permit anymore for the a roof but for in the historic district you need still but what if they decide not to redo the roof like they decide they're gonna skip town and sell the house to someone else I don't know why someone who's like I'm just I'm just again I'm playing doubl Advocate because you know how we I mean we approved to demo cranberry Pizza years ago that never happened saying that is but it looks I think there's a level trust will it get three years get five years you know it's not gonna get more than five years yeah it doesn't make sense for us to necessarily do such a nice renovation to then have our roof leak and you know like we're saying the red asphalt is still okay now but it's not a long-term okay we know we're going to have to do this roof in the next five years um but we can wait a couple more years so we can put the money into this now no I get it I get it and you need to do yeah I get that you need to do this this is a priority because it impacts your daily life or is it's like a roof it's like it's a roof like I guess well and it's okay right now we're saying it's not leing it's okay how do we keep the knowledge transfer though like let's say I mean I will not be chair in two years um I may not be here in two years um Sue may not be here anym either so how do we keep the knowledge in the file it's gonna stay in the file okay all right just wanted to make sure again it's just because we we we approved a demo of cranberry Pizza three years ago and no four years ago and that never happened that's but that's not HC responsibility that's the building building officer to make sure that happens yeah um actually it makes me think of that conversation we had with the uh building official earlier and the uh the computer system that they have and is that a method to maybe track that when an application comes in again that it like highlights that you we had approved the chimney work several years ago is that a possibility there is an option in sdl for historic preservation commission I haven't been trained on that yet but there is an option for me to input items from HPC I haven't gone in depth with that but to where the construction official can access okay okay okay so there's a possibility correct yeah I say we sounds good yeah okay good any other questions or comments so the other part of this that I'm trying to figure out is we're going for variants so obvious we came here first I always like to come first for concept finishing the drawings thank you um but we also want to get your blessing blessing before going for the variances because they will ask about that um when we go through that process uh especially because we're asking for variances for the fence you know as well as the setback and how this looks for the street so I don't I know in the past I think we've written informal letters to the board um we're these drawings are almost drawings other than a building section this is what most Architects are Builder builders subit for a plan and probably as much as you normally get but they're not really ready for permits yet I you know so I'm kind of at that dilemma where normally we don't put all that extra effort in until we have the variance this is about this is a level of document that you would submit for a variance too right yes more yes yeah so in the past what usually happens and this is very well laid out and I don't think there's any major questions about the concept of the design you know exterior design and in the past I believe we've approved an application with the stipulation that you get the zoning approval okay so I can put a memo so there's no objections to what was submitted cor that's the question does anyone have any concerns about the plans that we have yeah then I can write a memo to the zoning board from HBC have someone look it over make sure everything's okay that you know they're in favor of this application so sometimes it gets like this might would be approved to tonight with that stipulation or if you want to give yourself more time then just you know just formally submit it and then so we do whatever you want if if you can procedurally approve it tonight that would be great if not we can we put the approval to next month and do it formally that will still be before it gets to any board yeah once you the VAR on once you get the variance I I think um I mean you could resubmit and then I think behind the scenes ordinance how it goes is zoning board is gonna prove this what they submit what they need variances for but if there's anything in addition to to go to HPC if anything changes then it come back to us and so the question is like do you think they're gonna have any like well there who knows there may be so waiting a month I don't think you're starting next week but we can approve it pending zoning board approv yeah and that's that's what I mean you could do it that way but if there's from zoning some something they come back to you with you have to change come where we change anything all the way through construction if it changes the aesthetic we have to come back right so it's how yeah however you want to you know proceed with it or gen however you want to handle it but that's we've done that in the past yeah to improve it with with the zoning yeah I mean I think we can we can zoning and variance we can say that we I think we can just provide the letter to say that it's you know we don't have any concerns about it yeah make and and I would say just go through because in case just in case they decide to make you a change um and then you can just like resubmit the the whole thing I mean it's G to look probably look very much the same have the construction detail yeah and if there's nothing that's majorly changed too then we can do a um like a chair only sign off oral drawing they go to permits so those drawings will change slightly anyway or for an application we do need votes for that or no not for this the zon board will approve all variances that are in this so like the chimney the application the chimney like the HBC would have to approve because that's not going for a variance so anything in addition to through a regular meeting to get approval if they're for the same it's not regular meeting it's not like a sign off I that's yeah that's her realm if she wants them to come back they could but they're applying the same exact thing yeah it looks exactly the same here then I I'll feel comfortable signing off on it if there's something like different or something I don't understand that's when I would like try to say come back we both don't live that far away so whichever board on okay so I I say we just proceed the way we've been yeah okay great you thank you so much good luck with this uh good Lu variance application we don't need to all right thank you thank you um so we have new business um before we get to um accomplishments and goals I did want to give Robert like a chance if you have to speak since you're you know our Township leaz on we're super excited to have you here um Lisa you know was our pride we've had I mean I feel like we've had almost everyone shuffle through um and um you know I think how we normally do it is like I mean sometimes it used to be that they would sit up here but now they now they would sit you to hear and then you can just come up if you want to say something but we're all you know we're all friends so you know we we look forward to getting your your input and um you know and yeah so um is there anything that you you know did you have any sort of like goals or visions or um anything you wanted to share with us you know since you're new to the not only just HBC but also to Township committee yeah for sure so um no I don't I don't necessarily have any like goals or a mission here I I think getting on board and listening to a lot more of this and kind of the work that you guys do I owe you a phone call still this has been uh challenging a couple weeks um but I really want to get sort sort of like the philosophy of of you guys as a board right you or as a commission sorry um so yeah like I want to hear kind of what you guys feel like and that's why I think you and I can have a good conversation to do that um I've sat on this side sitting exactly where she was before um many moons ago it feels like now um so no I get it I understand sort of conceptually what what how this works um but I'm excited to be along for the ride and sort of watch and and see how we can help and figure out how we can work together any questions for me this feels like a like a like a hearing are you on other committees too which other ones uh I was on Municipal Alliance this morning okay um I'll be the school le on of course after six years on the school boards um and a couple other smaller ones but this will be my you know those would be my primary three has Lisa filled you in on what transpired no she wasn't going to lead the witness so it leads me to believe that maybe she should have well there's some things I think we were talking about late last year okay uh because it came up questions through HC HPC about street signs um with the new signs in the historic district there's been positive comments but there's been some comments like why aren't our street signs being I've heard some of changed um so one of the we've had a discussion about since Jen did a lot of work getting the new street signs the vendor design all that stuff that and it's well received it could be a model for when street signs the rest of the green and white ones need to be replaced just take off the historic district yeah off of them and the plan going forward you already have a vendor you know about what the cost is and Lisa had said well I guess there's some repaving projects as roads get repaved you replace the signs seems logical you know um because the whole thing with the new U entrance signs I don't know what you call those gate gateway gateway signs would hit home because we had the discussion the month before it was on Plainsboro Road on the state uh the crur estate side right the one O'Brien Road oh yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and that's not in the historic district so the first answer was well it's not in historic district so it really doesn't level doesn't matter but then these new Gateway signs after that meeting I driveing through I said coming in Plainsboro Road before the historic district it says historic Cranbury and everybody's part of historic Cranbury so people like these new signs so why not yeah like for property values and stuff too the aesthetic would be would be nicer than the green and white for sure and it's you know they're reflective they should last longer because they don't fade like the the green and whites fade sure um anyway so that was one of the discussions and the other one this is more my point every time I come into this building was front doors so the historic doors were ripped off I don't know how many years ago years ago new ones put on no maintenance so they look they're turning black and you know and the whole thing is that we're waiting for them so bad that you have to rip them out again and put new ones in or can we get them maintained and get sort of a regular M maintenance schedule so they're not this bad are they able to be maintained and still remain functional sure yeah the door I mean it should have been lightly sanded new polyurethane but now it's so dark you know the black you might have to sand it and have it stained a little darker but if you put polyurethane on them every couple of years I do that with my all my exterior doors are poane and I've done that for 30 years and from sustainability sustainable cranberry it's always good to fix versus rip off and throw away and that was just one of my things that we brought up in December I think so I don't know you know and this always happens new year new Township council members yeah new leaon and if that conversation those conversations aren't transferred over obviously it didn't sound like they were so of gets lost and we assume things are going to get done and we had talked a little bit specifically about the doors um just to see and I honestly coming over here only a few times a year maybe um I'll be here a lot more now you know from a from a safety perspective and things of that nature security I I don't know but to be perfectly honest I'm ignorant about whether or not those are functional and safe or not sty they seem they're heavy enough that's for sure it's just it's just it's just appearance just yes it's just again to keep things maintained it's not a big deal yeah or do you wait so long and then it's a big deal a lot more money and you got to rip it out and along those same lines I know the county did the uh Dam replacement and the new railings so God we spent like two years fixing the railing yeah the bend in the railing that finally got fixed it had nothing to do with the historic preservation but but it's been 10 years involved years we got involved because we had architect on the board we have you know a lot of architect experience on this board so we like cre so the the other thing again it has to do with maintenance yeah so they're 10 years since those railings have been put in and if you look at it some parts are starting to peel MH so one question is who ultimately is going to be responsible for repainting the reings is it Township or the county and are they going to wait so long where it's really flaking and you're gonna have to do a big sand sand blasting whatever you do to your aluminum I guess uh and get those repainted or can you start addressing it now before it gets to be a big job that just it does seem to be like a recurring theme like we experienced it a little bit too with the street science was like um was like you know we tried to when we first identified the the opportunity to to you know upgrade our street signs and everything it's like we didn't even know who was like really in charge of them and and then and everybody was pretty much like no one and then kind of DPW by default but then they were they didn't have a maintenance plan for and so we ended up figuring out when we were doing it that we had to replace a bunch of the poles because they were all rusted through and broken um so I don't know does seem to be like and I'm sure this cranberry is probably not a problem you need to Cranberry but it's like it is difficult figuring out those maintenance plans for things um because DPW I worked with them when we were doing the signs I mean they're very busy um they have a lot of responsibilities um so how do we go about like budgeting and and planning for maintenance of things like doors and you know the Dan it's easier to put it in maintain it certain Main and you can't just say DPW does everything you know because we had to like yeah we had to sell our soul to get DPW to put in our street signs um and yeah con me those were right and it always occurred to me that you know someone from the state happen to be cruising through cranberry and thought well we gave you a grant to fix these and you're not maintaining them um that might affect our ability to how they felt about giving us grants for other things yeah that's a good point there's not a lot of work that needs to be done but there are a couple of instances where tree roots are oh there's some areas so the brick walkways yes if you every year if you set aside I 5,000 whatever amount that much I mean it's do little pieces of it it's little pieces of it or wait till it get so bad it doesn't look good when you get grant money for something and then you don't take care of it they that seems to happen so I mean it seems to happen with every project well is where yeah we get the gr money well the sidewalks and safety are a huge issue I mean there well it's always it's safety and accessibility right people have always said well you know why should they get their sidewalks fixed and I will get my sidewalks fixed to other part town but these were paid for by a grant so yeah so it's Food For Thought I think um for HPC I think it's something that we we deal with regularly is like um because if it happens in if it's something that's getting out of um maintenance in it's in the historic district they do try to they do come to us people come to us and ask about those types of things sidewalks I mean if then it could be fixed by root guards and once those are put in then that never happens again I mean you go into Manhattan for him say there are sidewalks all over the place and trees and the sidewalks aren't up heaing I mean they' dealt with it yeah for sure yeah so um so yeah do side the street yeah the we we spent a lot of time on the gateways as well because it was kind of like we had done like a whole big inventory of like all of our signs in historic district and that's how we ended up figuring out the street sign thing and we also recommended the gateways um but then what happened was um the bike plan was already sort of mapped out and there hadn't really been much of a um like like we weren't really consulted at all about the signage for the gateways and kind of we kind of interjected a little bit and kind of partnered to you know see what the plan was um but we never really had any like um input into any of the designs of the gateways and fortunately what they chose was great we love it it's you know it's fine um but like you know I know we've made like recommendations about where to put them but um I don't know sometimes these things happen and it's you know we we try to collaborate across you know across boundaries the location of the one Road the number of us felt it should be right at the Plainsboro border right if somebody doesn't know they're coming in yeah I don't know I'm not any consulted I also thought that it should have been on the border I wish we had been consulted about like the design or even the wording of it but we were never like um so that's that's always kind of tough sometimes when decisions get made that are you know kind of historically in historic district or outside um so again I think a goal that I think we would have or ask of you uh from us and I mean Lisa did a great job too is like you know when we do start talking about things that kind of impact um the greater good within the township you know to just sort of relay that uh in the committee meetings um sure you know try we try to get updates we also try not to be like you know harassing did you find out anything did you find out anything more about those gateways an email you get did yeah okay I from awesome yeah so we get yeah we get these emails every once in a while yeah so it's good we we all get lots and lots of emails in our civil service roles don't we y um cool so awesome awesome well thank you that's all for me welcome welcome thanks guys um okay so for our other new business we have is talking about our 2024 accomplishments and 2025 goals um so I think what we're going to do is have like just a a brief uh brainstorming session where we talk about that what we would consider our you know most noteworthy accomplishments um because I know we always we do our annual report this is my first time being part of this process um do we have last year's goals available to look at so we can figure out what we were supposed to do this year and somewhere yeah I don't I'm I I'm I am not prepared I guess with that but okay so okay so help me out here so so um to do this this process we get the goals from last year um and then we brainstorm the all the accomplishments that we had toward those goals that's that at the end of your report right those goals we may have accomplished a lot of them and some we may not have but carry them carry them over and the report that Robin provides all the activity appliations and everything that has a lot of information in it okay so you so you compile the activities from the minutes or um no the HPC brainstorms the accomplishments and the goals for the coming year um and what happens a memo was given officially from the chair the chair signs off on that memo okay explaining to the TC that expects accomplishment goals okay what what's the deadline is there about March March this CLG requires okay so you know what I am not gonna um belabor this because I dropped I did not know it which is embarrassing because I should have thought that through that we needed the goals from we talk about it first this has a lot of stuff to work off I know that's I had that pink thing is was my focus for this meeting because I'm already thinking about this year I'm not even thinking about the year in review so a if we received the last year's goals and you know yeah move it forward and we can build a new one next meeting yeah let me let me what I'll do is I will find the goals from our um was it in the report that you gave to the town committee so that would be yeah in that thing okay so if I find that in my emails or Robin you probably have um I will send it to you guys with a memo and then maybe what we could do is um we could um just contribute you know what you guys think you know accomplishments and then that might be more efficient for the next meeting and that way we can just kind of wrap it up all righty I found it yeah because yeah okay 20 I this is the 2020 oh see this so much language accomplishments and goals for 2024 okay so our goals were and this will be a good reminder hold the Intensive level survey Public Presentation and post presentation material and post presentation materials on the HBC website done so accomplishment hooray um designate properties that were heard at the July 2021 no not carry that over all right like like yeah carry it over obtain yeah we didn't do this either not done either yeah that's the cranberry station Hamlet District Certificate of Eligibility kind of interactive map done done yes accomplishment okay inventory historic sites done yeah still identifi Ong right okay so just for your like we're shorthanded and you don't know what we're talking about so no I just so you guys know I sent him my notes where I actually had all these goals in individual slide um but not written that way and he has the yeah I sent those notes CU I you know I had that PowerPoint where I keep everything all together yeah yeah okay okay so that one's done so this is the inventory histri sites let me just read it so I understand where we're at identified in the master plan located outside the cranbery village historic district to potentially designate notify Property Owners of potential designation we haven't done that are we going to do that we did that with the expansion of the historic district because we had some some homeowners at one of our meetings couple months ago no but this is for the we haven't done that yet that's I think we do that once if we get CLG grant money then we send them a letter to tell them well that's a discussion we'll have in a little bit yeah come over andg Grant okay here we go is easy one participate in the joint effort with other Township entities on planning for revolutionary New Jersey done did she's like sort of public Outreach joh booth at cranberry day yep yes posting the 2023 year end report on the HBC website is it on their ah uh continue to work with the owner of the Camden Amboy Railroad train depot oh we dropped the ball with that one reserve the depot it's we can't we to I think the status is that because there's that U issue with in the enal side of things that we were kind of not allowed to talk by Lisa to kind of lay low and the only thing though is it's been like a year and a half I don't want them to ever say oh we haven't heard from them in a year and a half you know well can can we just send some like a letter to them just saying we're still available just as a reminder in case maybe a TC blessed letter yes yeah I think just like hi hi here we go complete installation of phase one signage initiative done participate in the joint effort with Township committee to implement Gateway signage we were just talking about that yeah it wasn't joint but it happened okay and that's it I love it yeah yeah Prett good um okay so yeah let me let me do the back work for this and work I I can prepare this and that should work for February's meeting yeah for February's let's table it because we I I think that um I would love to get your input on a couple of the we have on this agenda and I don't want us to be here all night let's keep going um Okay cool so old business um okay amendments to the cranberry Village historic districts and buffer zone um does anyone have any updates since the last time we talked about this initiative that you you've heard from anyone okay so this project this pink thing is kind of covers that um as well as the item of the design guideline so maybe what we just do is this cover this pink thing actually kind of covers bullet one two four um one two and four it covers one two and four um so would you guys be open to looking at this right now sure okay so just to Tee It Up what I did was I based on our discussion last month um I mapped out tasks and subtasks everything in purple is tied to getting the ordinance completed and so this is the continuation of the work that we did with the planning board and then going back and forth between Town committee and based on the steps involved we could ideally get this to completed by September at the same time so the idea is to try to do some of these things together is to get going with the surveys of all the additional homes plus the new homes that we want to include right so not only the new homes that are sort of um within the downtown district but also adding in the farmhouses right because we have the but that's it's a different what we've have been told by the professionals so adding to the his adding properties to the existing Village historic district yes is much easier than individual property sites that has you need you need to buy in from each individual owner but the idea but the idea would be is to do the surveys forget about like um the bigger goal the for just getting the individual surveys done but we're gonna have to talk about there's over like 50 properties on this but there's also the other part we talked about with the um Granbury station Hamlet CLG Grant I think sue you were bringing that up some there was some other piece that you wanted to incorporate into the CLG Grant application is that the Monroe houses and I'm hoping you remember what it is because I don't remember what it is I think it was the Monroe comp it's Part Monroe right to get I think discussed this with the state yeah they wanted us to coordinate so it's going to be the priority since a lot of work has already been excuse me invested in the uh cranber station Hamlet over the past couple of years do we want to prioritize that to see how much we can move forward with that and I think prioritize it how just well wasn't there something else we need to do with the Hamlet or we're done with so the issue separate okay there's a couple things going on like we want to survey the outline properties not it doesn't necessarily in my mind doesn't necessarily need to lead to designation that's correct just want to know point you think like yeah you know California right Los Angeles I saw something someone posted a picture of their like Bungalow before and their Bungalow as Cinders and and rocks you know and saying 400 Bungalows were destroying the fires if they were documented at least you know you'd have a bit of that history and to me that's the most important thing whether we ever get them designated or not and for the Hamlet it is complicated because part of the Hamlet is in Monroe the state will not consider it unless the entirety of the Hamlet is documented and we have not gotten much love from Monroe as far as wanting to participate um and before we even go for designation of the Hamlet we need to complete the Certificate of Eligibility maybe that's the piece where you think CLG Grant could be applied for that or not I don't think so okay okay yeah separate project not separate project but there is a particular individual in Cranberry who was very concerned about the fact that there was buildings cranberry station demolished and I think he plans to come to the meeting next month and would probably like we probably should be prepared with some answers I mean obviously we we had nothing to do with the Demolition we come the district but just inform what we do about that and I and I spoke with him on the phone about it I answered I gave all the information I know that he's also like yeah if he's if you want if has additional information I want to talk to anyone individual I think you should come yeah and that's and like I think that's fine can we have same conversation good um so okay so the CLG the vision is to get not only the additional homes especially those like non-contributing um former buffer homes surveyed but also since that's there's not enough for a wholesale you grant and we have to we want to do those the farmhouses we might as well have it all done in one um we're kind of killing two birds with if we can that's the other question if there's it's really all about price it out preservation yeah yeah but didn't the CLG Grant amount increase up to 50,000 instead of the 25 we used to get so we'll be okay then the the ones the the buffer houses are not there's not going to be much to say about those you know but what what we we um we owe it to to doing that it's it's one of and so it's one of those things where we're not going to be able to finish this project until mid next mid to late next year but it I feel like but it we need to do it because it's it's it's not um it's it's not on the critical path but it could be a bottleneck if we can't tell if we don't tell TC that we're doing this right I agree so yeah so I think that so that's so I I tried to lay out the timeline based on I looked at the CLG and the timeline when they said that they hope to get answers back to people like in May is what they said in their language um but the key to it is you apply for it this year yeah yeah work doesn't get done until and then yeah so I have it yeah so I have 26 in there um and yeah completion and so actually we could technically finish it um depends on how fast you know the vendor would be if we you know started if we have all of our ducts in order um we could they could start the day that we release SP that Township committee releases funds um and then it depends on how many months they need to do it like I put in like three months four months well us the deadline has to be submitted to the State final form uh end of September September but like they usually I mean it's the same company that we've had in the past um there's like a initial review like in July and there may be a final in August and then they put it all together and send it off to the state but technically they could start they could start typically yeah well I mean it would be nice to start before the trees bloom yeah that's that's always the nice nice that doesn't always happen yeah I'm just the project management Mar me is saying the second we have money that's when they can start they can't start until we have money yes but we could get all of our stuff together for them yeah we always have to wait for the state to do their sign off because they come to the township for the Township Clerk to sign off or in January yeah well it could be January it could be delayed oh so that's where it could get delayed okay that's good information we've had that in the past where okay one one week we got the documents and then next week oh the state changed the form and they have to resubmit it all right I'll make a note that like it could get delayed by the state um okay so then okay in at the same time as we're doing the going back and forth with um Town committee and planning board and all that um we have the design guidelines and you know based on the uh neighbor feedback and the planning board um you know there's obviously this this is a new project for the year for us to redo the to to take a look at our guidelines and um and update them and so I just sort of drafted out a process which would be that the next month or two we um look at how the other guidelines are done in other towns what's good what's bad I know we already started looking at like allent toown um that's a little too in-depth I think for cranberry but maybe we can kind of like you know take a look at like the flow um the information what to include what not to include then um develop um some sort of a survey for homeowners um um and then feeli the survey collect some data have um maybe some one-on ones with architect with Mr Giddings like um have some phone conversations with them collect their feedback and then go into the canva program and like do update our guidelines do a draft um and so that ideally by August which is when we would be going ideally back and forth with this um ordinance we would have a updated guidelines drafted at the same time we're going to TC so that it this doesn't delay the ordinance because they wanted to know that you know everything's all synced up well the one one um I don't know about reaching out to an an architect outside HBC since we have two architects on the board oh yeah we should leverage their expertise I think agree but I think that no I do think there's value going outside because the architects who are like working in the if they have time I'm just saying they that shouldn't be a roadblock if if they don't have time to do that it might be a good maybe we have an architect to architect interviews like um because they speak the same language could you guys be a committee the two of you sure okay great I do think it's good idea to talk to some of the Architects that come before the commission on a regular basis there's only a few there's only a few like yeah two or three yeah they're the VIPs we see them a lot yeah so one thing I want to bring Clarity to is design guidelines means two different things um design guidelines these this nice looking packet with pictures and then there's also design guidelines chapter 9 93 937 standards design guidelines and criteria and the ordinance part of it is the blocking part of this because that's the part we we need to have the ordinance 937 updated before we go to the DC to TC to have those additional properties that designated yeah um so this it this can really that can wait entirely until after we do the rules okay and so this is the priority the yes yeah the ordinance chapter 93 s is the that that that's the part that has to be done and then we can and then this is the translation of it for homeowners basically yeah yeah okay well what is nice for us is that this is I think shorter this is going to be easier to go through I think for us versus this because it's this is more Visual and I don't know maybe not um okay so we'll prioritize this document yes um and the the quality in some other towns you know nice picture document is is is really some of them are just incredible that seems Grant worthy um that we shouldn't be trying to create necessarily our new version of this to reflect the new rules that that we should for grant for that I don't agree I I know don't I think we can do it I don't think it's rocket science if especially translation of this what that's the trick that if there is a grant for that like the CLG is very specific on what I do think I do yeah we can check that but I do think design guidelines are of the elig eligible activities we do need to check because a lot of Grants out there they're available but they require matching funds from the township and that is like no no yeah as we learned so okay so and that's why I I feel like we should just do it ourselves because I feel like going for a grant is just a bottleneck that's just going to get us in the way of getting this time it it is it is a bottleneck just looking at this timeline it's going to add two years to it if we have to get a grant I don't there's there are really great design guidelines and I don't you know I've seen yeah it's going to take a lot to turn this into what what those look like well I mean we don't have to this is a re an update what we're doing is an update of what we're just updating this document we are not um building it from scratch we're we obviously have to take out that part about paint color that we found somewhere oh this page I don't that's why I don't think paint color is in here I think it's just in the ordinance and actually it doesn't even say paint it just says color here it's page 42 yeah so we got to strike out like page 42 uh yeah yeah this is just providing advice to homeowners I that's good to okay you know what it is see and this is where people read everything we just have to reread this stuff with a fine tube I think it's advice it's not like you must do this you must our guidelines are a little wordy these guidelines the visual guidelines have a lot of words for visual guidelines so maybe if they're more user user friendly bullet pointed that's what I'm saying like if you if we take this thing and pop it in the robots could literally take this and simplify it for us AI yeah I'm telling you in an afternoon I could take this and turn this into like a very simple thing with bullets um and the other thing that I think needs to be updated probably is referencing synthetic materials because things have changed sythetic materials this first issue and what the department of interior also allows and what we've approved in the past agree I think that's the most important thing like and I did see in Allentown they were looking at that stuff they had stuff even on solar panels um so yeah well I think the concern I had about it was you know definition of synthetic sighting because it says synthetic sighting may be used but and we've approved specific synthetic side synthetic or vinyl Alum vinyl is a synthetic side but okay would appr I don't think we've ever approved that no I would no but I think that's why we need to be specifically okay so I say what we all need to do is I'm gonna give everybody homework for our next meeting we're going to reread this again with a fine tooth cone we're going to start highlighting language that we think is you know going to be a problem and then I think we're also gonna I'm GNA ask you guys to take a look at some other towns um ordinance language and let's let's try to see what other folks have and see if we find it best practices in people being more specific but not too directive um yeah okay all right and what I'll do is I'll update this um work plan um are you guys good with how we do like a survey and architector thing I can just with but with this we'll leave this as TBD um I'll put a note down about like seeing if there's a grant um but I again I really think that unless we can find a grant but it's not going to block the ordinance this would be this is a nice this is the after this is the translation of it so I'll I'll put that in as like a you know post ordinance workstream but we have to make sure the town committee knows that we're g to get this thing updated I'm I'm a little worried about this timeline where at the same time the TC is finalizing ordinance we're including a guidelines in the packet and like we should probably have them the new ordinance for the design guidelines before they have to designate the properties like I don't so okay so so we need to move um so I can I can shift the TC stuff back um or I can try to speed up our interviews so that we can have the guidelines completed before it goes to TC yes see I thought it would be good to have it in draft format because I figured everybody's going to want to have their own two cents about it but that was why I did that but I wouldn't call it a draft I'd call it what but you think if we just say this is our final that's gonna be better yeah okay all right I'll see less room for all right I will I will speed this up and I'll show you guys a new work plan next meeting and we're going to be asking for a little bit of money to work with experts in the field to help us with these guidelines right when would that fall in this calendar that we'd be working with them um talk about that didn't did we talk about having money it's in the bu or we put it in the budget yeah we did that's right okay um so when when do you think we should um start I mean later right yes I well I think we should figure out our goals for what we want changed and that can come from this commission and can come from public feedback and it can come from professional Architects providing feedback to the architect committee um and from all of that we can uh tell the experts here are the things we've identified that are deficient in our current design guidelines and we want to improve them or change them and then have them draft I would think I have an idea so if we have if we do a survey and we start this like second quarter we do a survey to homeowners and we start doing the architect interviews at the same time then we will speed things up in terms of collecting feedback and then we can consult with the inner with the experts because we will have collected the feedback and that will help us complete the updates to the guidelines okay and you're owning the whole expert part talking to who going to talk to The Experts who are the experts is the question who are the experts who who are we paying extra money to talk to anyone anyone discuss that okay that wouldn't be Liz ly would it maybe could be Liz she certainly capable it's usually who we've gone to in the past yeah that's right that would make sense you think you good with that all right okay then yes I'll I'll interface I will um take the feedback we get from public and Architects and then yeah yeah and you've already been doing this before with her yeah I I mean that's why I nominate Brandon because you works so well with Liz so I think yeah okay all right great okay so this is a great work plan um we have a lot to do in a short amount of time but I think we can do it I think we can um we can get this going now that we have this sort of like month by- Monon thing I'm GNA try to hold us all accountable for getting this done a good idea thank you okay all right you guys this has been a long meeting um I want to show off my book yes let's is this for the library okay and then I also got um copy of Jackie saves um um Grand Central okay and I also found one other book but I forgot to bring it um that I'm donating um yeah so we have that okay um so that's library books we talked about the town hall door um oh she does oh that's right yes okay so I did want to mention that I mentioned that to Denise for the front door yes and she said she's more than willing to do what anyone recommends she said a lot of people have come to her and said hey we need new doors but nobody has any ideas for her so she will accept any ideas HBC has for her you were mentioning maintaining it she'll accept any ideas that you have first first thing would be maintaining it so it would either be fair amount of sanding now gone so bad and then we finishing then they have to see they may have to stain it a little darker I I don't think it can be the light wood any right to mask like three or four coats of a goodish poane with UV protection and then I could just okay perfect but the hardware and such were yeah and then I'll you know put in there that if you plan on if you do that then just plan on every two years light sand another two coats of polyurethan should last a long time if that doesn't if it doesn't look good then the alternative would be painting painting but definitely I the doors are fine as far as functioning safety whatever I don't I really would be disappointed if they were ripped out and replaced so I will do that it's not necessary firehouse has the same type of problem they're they're not doing anything with their doors they're not quite as bad but okay um another quick bullet item is um on the signage okay so the latest update thank you Robin for getting this this update is that um the new Gateway signs that were uh the town's doing they have they are ready to go and get and get installed um Jerry from DPW is working with Barbara waders and they're deciding on the locations um so from the email we are not our input I we did provide input to Barbara a while ago um but they're not I'm not I'm taking this email that they don't want us to provide any other input but um one of the signs will be placed by The Elms and that's like the big win for us I feel like because that's I mean honestly I feel like that is the official entrance to this to our district so that's really great news that they um listen to our feedback and that it's going to they got the town the um um middlex County to approve that spot um because it is a complicated thing for them to get these things approved um so that's that I think we can like honestly close this topic um from now on yeah okay okay do we want to talk about the Coe because that's I think that's was a goal we had for this year we didn't get it done which is okay we got other things done but I think it's a goal again for this year um did you have any updates too n on that none okay so I think we need to figure out our plan of action for that and I think Sue I think maybe you and I make one of these somehow um would you be open to that yeah all right I'm gonna I'll reach out to you maybe we have like a one off okay um I mean would the committee would you guys all agree that we want to still continue with this getting the certificate of yeah yeah oh yeah I mean I know we have a lot going on here and stuff but I think if like if we break off into little subgroups you know you know Brendan working on the ordinance like you know Dave is doing the CLG got designed guidelines you know guys great with that you know it'll free up you know us to work on like you know that and then Amy you know where you have an interest too like you know I think keep looking at the other sites for language and stuff you know that's right yeah you're great at the researching and I about that stuff yeah yeah yeah um so the guidelines committee maybe yeah could we talk about because um the uh historic designation site historic sites outside the historic district yeah yeah so this is what I put together this is yours so yes and I just remembered I forgot the they had the red building on neighorhood so awesome have picture you know behind this property that was discussed tonight oh didn't we say that was in surveyed ever the Dr the drill room I think that's that's surve Dr Drill room is surveyed it was surveyed I think so it was the fire station that wasn't surveyed also and the old and the new Firehouse that wasn't survey or the old old fire station that's the shed that was never surveyed and then the firehouse Museum on Main Street where we do the Christmas carol singing okay that was not that I didn't add that I have to add that yeah but the one on Maple would I have to which one is that it's a shed that's right it's just as you go around the corner of coming down Corner the right the oh okay all right it's listed on one of the property reports it just doesn't have its own property but because it's yeah but it's possible that the surveyor the I don't know maybe the fact that the surveyer didn't bring much prominence to it suggests that there's not gonna be much from something part of it's not part of a property someone's shed oh that's our Firehouse it's got a it's got a a plaque or something on the front of it I I got it yeah so maybe it was missed when that prop but it wasn't it wasn't missed because it was mentioned it's just a question of did the surveyor make a mistake and not bringing more attention to it or did they write everything that there was that's probably what happened that was just a piece of the property and they just put some pieces in anyway um everybody have a copy yes so thank thanks to Brendan we got the two properties uh t 92 Prospect Plains Road and um on uh South River Road it was the uh 1274 South River Road that one it's so there was de to my heart there was a change in the block and lot numbers so that's why there was a mismatch because they were redefined when when when the properties were subdivided they were so they were not and I was taking the information from the old master plan information which showed that said they were demolished so I was able to get the pictures included in the spreadsheet although somehow I missed our favorite Farmhouse 147 Plainsboro Road thought I took a picture of it and couldn't find it I don't know where it went to I have to anyway this is just this is just the just a layout for when we WR right up the CLG Grant application so there's great 5 um 54 properties um there's some I just take a look at it there's some on I think John Davidson Road oh my God going toward East Windsor there's one Farmhouse before you get to East Winds around the band you can't even see it it's so far in the back you know and it's you know private property keep out all this stuff I I don't know you can't see it so I would recommend we don't even bother with that one and then the the the house it's a Farm Stand and that's a little white farmhous on that other Bend going back toward cranberry Plainsboro um number that's a m um number EXC cranberry neck three cranberry Neck Road like the barn that's in the barn par I can't believe we don't have that surveyed like that's one of those other things it's like it's like right under our noses that we never don't believe so glad we're doing this right well it's probably because that Bo was moved from yes it was moved from the other property but it was just again it's one of those it's like and the other two barns weren't really thought of until the other Barn was moved there yeah so officially a barn Park um and then on die Road um there's a house again it's set back it's the um it's now a uh if it's a religious uh group that uh I've always wanted to drive down there and see that well there is an old house there I knew the people that lived there before but you really can't see that house it's jet I just see a roadway it's across from the 222 die Road the Gordon die Farm yeah um jet USA owns it um you know I properties like that were it really doesn't impact nobody knows about it I mean on the street you can't the only thing is though like what if they decide to like is it protected Farmland I because they decide to build a warehouse down there like you know that's separate from I know anyway it's a it's a it's something to consider um if we run up against like the budget yeah I feel because these These are more difficult than when we did the village the village is a walk through from the street these and and the village historic district was based upon a prior survey so there's a lot of information already gathered this there's you know virtually nothing so there's a lot more work on on these 54 um that reminds me I did go to the middle sex County offices right and um so I have a whole bunch of uh photos of report pages to upload because they did a survey in the late 70s of like okay agricultural properties so that'll remind me um I think I'll I'll bug Robin and do a one drive that would be a good reference for some of these are were already survey and they're not extensive but at least it's a little bit to start with so anyway um this is the basis of working on the Grant I and sue you mentioned last time you'd like to be a part of that yes so Robin if you could set up like Lori is available to help us then we can start flushing this out and sue if you have any ideas of any other elements we need to look at for this round of CG can we add in though the additional properties the the buffer properties to this list now which those gr if you could somebody could send that to me I don't know Brendon has yes um there was that was page 12 in the that big set of notes um so the one these are the notes from um last fall on the amendment the master plan Amendment if you if you have a copy of it with you I have it somewhere in my file okay yeah page page 12 lists 22 properties all in the buffer area that that we would be that woulding in the district district so they're not historic homes except for possibly Big Barn Road Big Barn I know was not in in there okay yeah but the other ones the other ones based on their date of construction are going to be non-contributing properties yeah it's not going to be hard for for vendor to do much with this these it's just a picture and a description this is a 1980s Colonial nonconforming House okay yeah and in fact with because this isn't we we're going to need to create one a document ourselves anyway for um the ordinance um where we take a quick picture and write two sentences okay because that's uh that that's what I had in my notes that we needed okay we don't need the full know shebang so these pictures are just from my phone and some of them are from just a real estate listing yeah roads were kind of dangerous when I was trying to take pictures believe it or not um so anyway uh knowing that if we do the CLG Grant surveys they'll get better pictures exactly and the grant is to uh Grant applications to February right so yeah Robin if you could just let Loro and can reach out to start I'm around are you around I'm around next week uh Tuesday Wednesday and Thursday probably not but otherwise working on okay I'm gonna try to keep us moving um along um HPC public Outreach um I don't really have any updates on that we sort of completed our work streams our plan from last year um I did have some additional topics that I know we had brainstormed we can talk about that next month um you know additional communic we wanted to put together um Robin and I also too talked a little bit about like the the website and putting stuff on it and stuff so I think we can work on that in the background um the next thing would be the um this would actually kind of fall into the communication plan which is the the student position um so I wanted to get your take on this um once CE we feel good about this we could do this as a mayor's communication um I had a couple questions uh about kind of timeline um is there like a a minimum amount of time the person should be committing to or a maximum like six months or a year or or does that matter it's a good question I think one academic year would make sense this is for a high school junior junior or senior well senior or senior we've had a senior before yeah for like and then they they need to go graduated they're off to college in August yeah I saw that his term was from January through August in theory like from January you know for the reorganization until he leaves for college but he disappeared by like May yeah yeah so that's Junior probably would be better right they could start starting their senior year start like in September beginning ofor year um so we want to put like for example under why join could say gain firsthand experience in civil engagement for a period of one year maybe we kind of um or actually put it in what you'll do attend um yeah at least 7 HPT meetings to stay actively involved for a period of one year right probably a better this is also count toward their community service hours I believe so whatever the hours are that's what they're working toward yeah but we want to have like cont we don't want what happened before where we had someone for like three months and then yeah so I think if we make it clear that this is like a a one-year commitment I think that's good and we talked earlier about enrolled full full-time in high school any High School not just right okay um I was also wondering about the deadline of uh February 15th and just what the reasoning was behind that I guessed I just guessed I was like I didn't know when to do it I figured like is it going to be a rolling kind of thing or is it like a one time when we get it set up or I mean I don't know if we're going to have mountains of applications of people like beating down our doors or and to build on that if we have one person serving in this role and someone else also wants to serve in the role can we have two at the same time or would we only be okay with one I wish just have one would be enough good question though um to your point Sue I I didn't think too much into it that I just I thought we needed to have some sort of a deadline for people to put their thing in because I didn't want what you said could happen which is where like we have some someone apply we chose them and then like another kid applies 3 months later and they're like hey I didn't know that I missed the deadline you know like kids are used to the deadlines I think a deadline's good February 15th may just be a little too soon you guys just make it the end February March 1 March one I can do that that's easy that works okay definitely not for a senior if you're thinking this year I know yeah if we're looking at just a junior that's well this is our trial just so you know we're this is a trial thing we're doing where we're creating this like student representative sort of non-voting person who likes architecture and history who wants to kind of be part of this board and we thought it would just be a nice way to get some um New Perspectives on things um the gentleman we had before he was here only for a few months but he actually like um kind of brought up some great ideas that we thought you know so it was like really great really good point good middle schoolers we work together two could work okay if we get applications and and yeah that's that's yeah if we're going for 12 months I wouldn't want those 12 months to start in March it's kind of a weird time for students to be doing and we could do six months starting in March and then start another six or 12 months in the fall but it's would you wait till the September you could just wait applications I would take applications in the spring this year for juniors we're going to be Juniors next academic year and then make it an academic year appointment yeah okay let me think through how to um so we want people to apply um so you want to push we push out the application date to like um like April or May I think yeah yeah yeah sure yeah okay so we do june one let's try June one and then it would begin um I think yeah for a period of one year I think the applications we should have them do do them before the end of the school year though yeah they won't pay attention so make an appoint you know it's an appointment for next fall but you're applying in the spring semester okay so I'll have the robots help me figure out how to phrase this about um a period of one year during an academic calendar year I'll figure something out right yeah like June 20th is that when school's out June 20th I don't know it's late yeah it's like 18 okay all right I will try to make sure it kind of states that it's going to be for one year align to like the academic calendar right and that we start doing the applications June 1 and maybe we we should probably actually these kids also want to know when they're going to hear back so we'll select everybody not yet I've reached out to them yeah yeah there's got to be something for that right yeah I got I I reached out to them for another history committee and I got like a very like in your face like we have we only choose things we like type of thing and so I was so I will um this though is something I don't know I I think some kids would probably do this if they didn't get volunteer hours because it's it's an it is a Resume Builder to be able to say that you were on a board um but I I can try to reach out to that lady again um and see about trying to what the process is for getting the volunteer hours hour well again now you have it back to Princeton High School which we were talking about actually cranberry resident student could be somebody another high school at Petty or that's yeah any they're working towards a number of hours each of these meetings as many hours they know they can chip away their re so yeah maybe the other schools have simar process but I don't want to have to be the one to go and try to get everyone every kid's thing approved preliminarily um but you're gonna have to sign you're gonna have to sign off on the hours oh of course we don't mind well that's no problem oh yeah we don't mind doing that that's not hard but um getting when I when I originally reach out to the princet in person about again about another history committee um they were they kind of gave me like a we only like look at certain ones if it's a year-long she gave me a big list of criterias and I was just like I mean I can't be responsible for getting these kids hours approved um like you know that's I think that's stepping way into someone else's responsibility if the kid gets into this their it should be their job to get it approved for their credit with the school their school not us I don't think I think it probably depends on the school as to how they run their community service because it's going to be different in all yeah that's the thing it's GNA be different in all schools but we'll have more applicants if we if it's on a list of approved um opportunities one we did have you want me to call Petty you want me to call schools of are the L sh so what so the the person we had a while ago yeah what did he do he never even he was actually an alternate so he was just on the on the board as an alter was on the board yeah did anyone sign off was anything for Community hours I have no idea no that's the thing like this kid probably went and got it approved or got the hours the way or he just wanted he just was interested in preservation does the school have a formal way of dealing with this think they yes yeah CU they want to make sure it's legit yeah yeah makes sense what if we just to get the process I mean maybe make phone few phone calls to schools and see you could always put in something on this it says maybe maybe eligible for volunteer hour credit or something like that just leave it as an open issue for now that sounds good to me say that one more time on just add another bullet or something in here that says may may be eligible for volunteer hours we have volunteer hours here's what I got the response back when I asked her this is when I was asking this is a year ago about Museum dosent or something for chips in September we have a Google form that you can fill out and we will send this opportunity to sophomores our project book however is reserved only for student leader and the projects they have created please get back in touch with me in September that was what I was told by a project to I was so confused I was just like okay I'm not dealing with this feels different than yes yeah okay that's good to know well so I can try reaching out to her again and see what the story is um okay we should probably since we typically meet on the third Tuesday of every month we should probably mention when we meet on here they maybe they want come in oh that's a good point yeah let's make sure we put in when yes meetings are meetings are that is actually probably like the most important thing with these kids is like when the meeting is because if they have sports extracurricular um okay third Wednesday or Tuesday 7 p.m. okay all right good sounds good I'd like to talk about training for a second that's okay unless there is Revolution New Jersey news any Revolution New Jersey they have not met since our last meeting okay there was training that was sent out uh to our emails um included the napc historic resource survey webinar on January 30th which sounds very relevant to our upcoming CLG Grant application so that we should and Robin we are napc members is that correct how does that work as far as signing up for the webinars is that what you mentioned last year didn't you inquire about this previously is that the same group I believe yes yeah and did we determine that we were or we weren't I think we are I think you were individually or something like that corre it was a group thing I can go back through the emails and look and see how we figured it out I'll look at it too because it's like a $15 fee and maybe I got reimbursed for it or okay let me see how it is but I it sounds like something that's worthwhile this work I I watched the the YouTube video that you sent so on the materials and everything that was good I know I listen too that was really good okay that was it it was like it was so interesting because it was you know so not cut and dry and you think about our guidelines you think about that homeowner feedback where they're like I want to know specifically what I can and can't use and I'm like oh my God this webinar doesn't answer that question at all yeah everything's open depends yeah that was what was interesting it's like you were learning but then at the same time there's no no answer yeah uh OD fellow's Hall what do we have to do minutes we do but what's going on the odd fellow's Hall discussion is that we sent a notice to them because remember they made those they put in those window wells without any area thing and Robin had sent a note did you get a response I have not gotten a response that's where we are another one so do we want to send another note to them they haven't responded well who's the enforcer for something like that I'm sorry if you want to get it to that point Andre can send a letter the zoning officer well then maybe maybe we should mention it to the zoning officer that we we sent them a letter and they didn't respond do where did it get sent to the the property or is it like some cor the property cuz when I checked out the owner it was the post office address um I'm not sure how POS are here PO Boxes it's a unit something I don't know if that was a PO box or no probably not that's exactly yeah so I didn't I just sent it to the address I mean because if the tenants receives a mail and they're just like throw it away then it's like I don't know that we want to get the zoning officer involved yet necessar do that no any way I could hand deliver it I mean it's right here is anyone there I don't know how that works there um lights on okay so I could try to hand deliver if that's on your walk yeah exactly exact no it's right here yeah let TR try it try that second time and then then we get Andre involved because we have other things with Andre so hopefully they won't Chas your okay um minutes I looked through and I thought didn't see anything I have one I didn't chance to look at it and send it online but just one thing on page five under my comments about front doors of town show Town Hall should be maintained for sustainability not placed that's the only thing that I have right maintain that's important key all right any other comments or ready to go and approve our minutes motion to approve the minutes second all right roll call Miss upmeier yes Miss Ryan yes Mr Guyer yes Mr H yes and Miss Marin yes thank you motion pass uh uh we talked about the discussion any public comment okay make a motion to adjourn so move second hi thank you