this historic preservation Commission meeting is being held on February 18th 2025 at 7:00 p.m. statement of adequate notice pursuant to the Sunshine Law adequate notice in accordance with open public meeting Act njsa 10 col 4 Hy 6 was provided on January 28 2025 of this
meeting's date time and place the agenda was mailed to the cranber press and home News Tribune posted on the township bulletin board and mailed to those requesting personal notice and file with municipal clerk roll call and volunteer hours Miss sumeer
uh here eight Miss Ryan here three and a half Mr Guyer here one Mr H here six hours including the training on the historic resource surveys Miss Marlon here two Mr Sabo
here 10 m you did advise us she was not attending tonight Mr Christoper the to committee Ladi on is here and we do have a quum chair okay great all right welcome everyone sorry I'm late traffic in Princeton
is so frustrating um so um we are going to begin uh with our public hearing we originally had it on the agenda for the end but it looks like we have some visitors um and so what we will do is um
hold our public hearing um about the cranberry Village historic district and berson um this is our second public hearing that we' had had within the last uh few months we had a hearing at the tail end of last year um we went to the
planning board we got feedback from the planning board Incorporated feedback from the planning board went back to the planning board and the planning board um supported our recommendations so at this point now we are going
to have I guess this is a third public hearing on this topic um and yeah I think it'll be a great discussion so um how do we want to go about do we want to go about reading uh the
information okay pardon um I mean I could read this whole long thing what would you like me just present it pardon um I guess what we could do is um what
I'll what I'll do is let me give you all just an overview of where how we got to where we are um and I mentioned that you know again this is our third meeting on this topic um so you know our opportunity for this hearing is really
to educate anyone who hasn't heard about this or to capture feedback if people have feedback on this um everything that we've been working to do has been in has been consistent with the 2019 master
plan reevaluation uh the most important um element of that was removing the buffer from the historic district uh we went through a very detailed process with Richard grub advising us uh doing an extensive review
and inventory of all the properties um and we uh developed language um which we have I believe posted um this all this language exactly and then we created also our colleague Brendan uh
created a very detailed addendum um explaining everything um and the rationale behind it um so Brendan did you have any comments that you wanted to share to the public before we ask people
who wanted to ask questions um I guess so yeah yes this is based on the feedback from the the planning board meeting and uh I guess one of the pieces of feedback from the planning board was the inconsistency of of one side of the street versus another
side of the street and so from that we really went back to what were the objectives laid out in the master plan and um starting from the 2010 master plan and then the reevaluation in 2019 and uh and so kind of the two objectives
laid out that the township committee is asking us to make recommendation to to accomplish is to add near uh properties that are near the existing boundaries that would contribute to the district and to contribute to the district means that they were constructed prior to 1940
and that they've retained enough of their uh architectural features and uh materials to have retained integrity and so to so that objective add those properties that could be contributing to the district and are near the district
and then a second objective which is to eliminate from the buffer those properties which don't really affect the character of The District that is like they they're within 200 feet of of the historic property of the historic district but they themselves aren't
particularly visible from the street and so therefore they shouldn't really be subject to that level of review that's the buffer area which is a review of compatibility those those properties uh don't aren't held to the same standard
as a property in the district um that things need to be retained on it uh the standard of review on those is are changes compatible with the character of the district and so what we have here is trying to accomplish both of those
objectives that have been given to us uh at the same time that is incorporate those properties that are historic contributing to the would contribute to the district um any anything older than 1940 that's still maintained it retained its integrity and also only incorporate
those properties in the buffer that uh affect the character and so this this that would REM that would uh that involves removing some properties that currently we have review over that we would no longer have review over and then retaining review over some of those properties that are in the district
today that they themselves aren't from before 1940 but based on their location based on their relationship to other properties in the district um they can still have an impact on the character so yeah in short that's kind of what we're trying to do and why we're trying to do
it some additional feedback we um received um during our last two public hearings um were some folks um who still wanted to retain the buffer um and I just I'm going to put it out there that um that is just 100% And Beyond any of
our purviews here at HBC is not possible um we are not permitted to have a buffer zone around our district um and so you know we are trying to work um within our means of preserving our historic
district preserving the Vista the streetscape of that District um but we are not permitted to have a buffer at this point um the other thing that I did want to mention is that we have had a lot of discussion between contributing
versus non-contributing properties um many of the properties that were in the buffer um before are going to be in the historic district now nothing will really change they will before when properties were in a buffer um they
would come before our board and we would review the project but the criteria for review was very different than that of a contrib in um property um so for homes that had been in the buffer that were non-contributing um not not much is
going to change the greatest benefit of everything that we're doing and the most feedback we received from the community as well as our advisors was that too many homes were in the buffer and subject to HPC review that was 100%
unnecessary given the age and location of the home um so a great benefit of this um you know Amendment to the to um to what we're working on is really that there's going to be fewer properties
that have to go in front of HPC um to look at their streets gate projects um so at this point um I think what we could do is um we could have members of the community if you have um a question
or a comment um you're welcome welcome to come up and join we ask you guys to state your name and address um and we ask you know um we're not going to be crazy about the three minute rule but um if it's like if it starts getting a
little out of hand we might need to like just give a little like you know wink wink so um so Mr bosi would you like to join red light okay good even everyone I'm I'm have two comments I'm going to
just do the first comment and come back let other people speak uh so ladies and gentlemen um in reviewing the historic preservation interactive map and the proposed changes I was shocked to see photos of my home
and details of my property listed on the website my house and out buildings are not seen from North Main Street that's why it's interesting one of your objectives is specifically incorporating all those properties adjacent which are
visible from the street so my house is not visible from North Main Street the entrance to my home is only access from a long winding driveway from North Main Street photos of my house and out buildings are shown
on the website this could only have occurred by the reviewer gaining access to my property to take photos not only the front of my house which again is not seen from the public right away but also all sides of my home
including the rear and side yards in the written description there are more details about my home also that are not appropriate not only is this an invasion of privacy but also a potential s
security risk for my family and me there is not one other property on historic housing inventory that has pictures taken from a home inside the property lines it is no one's business what my
home and property look like internal to the lot lines not seen from the public right away especially describing and showing photos of my rear yard and private outdoor areas I strongly request that these
pictures be deleted from the website immediately and delete information has nothing to do with the potential designation of historic site how would you like to have pictures of your home including your private rear and side yards on a public
website publishing this private information is disgraceful and quite upsetting I have pictures and descriptions from the website so you can see from yourselves also attached their views from North Main Street and the
public RightWay thank you and I have copies for everyone so they can see what I'm talking about yes thank you very much thank you would anyone else like to speak or have any questions your addresse oh yes
I'm sorry just for the know 167 North Main Street thank you do anyone else have any other comments or questions I see a hand you're welcome to join it's Ken Gordon 127 North Main Street just have couple questions because I'm
not totally familiar with this what does it mean to be added to the master plan Amendment and what does it mean to be removed from the master plan Amendment on this map and I don't know if you can answer that question or but the other the other
questions I have were looking at the map on for Parkplace it appears that Parkplace West is missing off the map so does that green area refer to the library does that have implications for
anything for the library okay um okay um so these are questions let's maybe I think we can address these um thanks for coming and asking these questions um okay so the first first
question was Parkplace West um and I don't I forgot my glasses unfortunately racing here um yeah the map from the town planner because it's yeah kind of a road it's kind of not legally a road it's like kind of owned by the town or was recently I think
subdivided and given to the township so there's the map that this was based on from the town planner doesn't have it highlighted um but uh in answer to your question about whether or not that's the library that's not the library okay right we received the map from the township and then I could try to answer
what it means to be added or removed uh so the removed means that the property was in is already in the historic buffer area that means it's within 200 feet of the district and so this proposal would mean getting rid of the buffer uh except
that not every property in the buffer is proposed to be removed the ones in the buffer or because of the uh because they themselves are storic that do affect the character of The District that is due to their visibility from the street then
the being added means that um they would be in that they would be identified as um worth including in the district so the diff so we're talking about the master plan now which is slightly different than when it's actually done
by the the I guess by ordinance the designation so it's just kind of like the first step to before the property is designated it should already be in the master plan as being identified as worthy of designation so this is that
first part about the in particular the master plan so it doesn't actually change anything other than being in the plan and then later on the township committee would uh be voting separately to actually designate
them thank you this pH yeah might as well yeah thank you thanks for coming does anyone else have any other questions about the process or about your individual properties please hello hi um Marie distasio 35
Station Road um I just had some question on some of the language where it said visibility from the street um what does does that technically mean from the center of the Street then front of the
the historical home that I would be within the buffer zone for um so what usually what it means is um when we're looking at a at a home um if it's um part of the historic district
um and if you're driving down the street and so any part of the house that you see from the street is something that we would um be kind of looking at because the intent is to maintain the streetscape we had a lot of discussion
with planning board about the word streetcape um Station Road was actually planning board um had a lot of comments about you know making sure we had both sides of Station Road okay um if there's like it would mean the straight the street where you're driving on for the
front of the house um for some homes in our historic district I don't know for I can't remember where your house is but um if there's another road going down the side like a um if you're on an on an Ang on a corner I am um if you're on a corner so then the side of your home
that's seen by the other Street as well that is also something that we would be con you know looking at okay um so yeah and and also um the the designation on a on a property that is visible from the street is not necessarily because the
house or the structure or a shed or something like that is visible from the street but if it has Frontage on the street you know the the house could be sold to someone in the future who then might build a new structure right that even if today the current structures aren't visible it's it's more about the
frontage on the street is an aspect even if the you know there's shrubs and trees and woods and everything that's obscuring um the existing structures okay okay I guess I just want to say that I'm so a little confused Zone I am a corner lot and I was originally part
of the um notification that came out to be removed from the buffer zone now I'm listed as being considered for it but the house that was to the right of me is being removed that's why my question came in from the visibility from the
street is that because that I'm on two a corner on two streets that the other property wouldn't be considered no it's more in Europe case is this the one that's to the east of this is this
across from um it would be across from 40 the large yes across from 40 yeah so that's that's a um what's that's a a key contributing property which is not only is it um contributing to the district but it itself is so significant that it
is eligible for individual listing on the uh National register of places so in your case being directly opposite from the property it has more of an impact visually than um one further down the street so we we tried to remove as many
as we could from the buffer that where we could okay yeah um and yours is more visual more significant right if you're standing in front of either that house or your house right they're both in inside of each other yeah okay and with
with talking with the planning board I mean we originally trying to we tried to remove more h Homes but then in talking with the planning board and we kind of had this discussion about Street Skates um it's where you know they they made a very good point and and we you know accommodated it that you know um you
know one side of the street if you're driving you see both sides of the street so yeah okay is there any um uh last question then one point is there any timeline on being um proposed as considered for adding to master plan
versus the proposed expansion like the different shading on here is there like a timeline no the difference refers to the the planner having prepared uh a draft Amendment to the master plan and that draft Amendment included the ones that are solid but doesn't include the
ones that are striped and so now following more feedback um I think the the planner would prepare a new um Amendment which this if if if everyone if the commission recommends that the striped ones be solid then they'll be
solid too so it'll happen at the same time they won't be separate times I just also wanted to raise a point because I know that um a lot of the sorc homes do have the surveys done and they are publicly acknowledging everything anybody that's going to be in the buffer
or now considered or proposed for it I do have concerns for surveys being done of my property and where that would maybe be listed as being now part of the historic district um against what I might be just comfortable having my
property out there I know I'm a corner lot I know anybody can drive past it it's just the saying of hey yes I'm good with this of have a family and I'm cool with it versus you know it being done you know just as being proposed from a district versus being in a buffer zone
before so was that thank you thank you very much okay okay great does anyone else have any other questions or comments hi hi my name is Kena slim um we've just bought um 19 Station Road oh welcome and
I just got the U the mail um on Friday so what is going on here yeah so I repeating your name I'm sorry sorry K is your Lim cace yeah Lim Candace Lim and what what address again did you say 19
19 station 19 station yeah um so there's a lot of terminology um in in all the documents and then you know you very kindly explain some of it so if I could just um have some clarification of course um for 19 Station Road it is
currently in the buffer or not in the buffer okay so it's a proposed amendment and I was listening to the previous conversations as well that is going to be added to be a solid
block yes I propose it to be uh in the district and have to eliminate the buffer and then that would be one of the ones affecting the character so it'd be in the district right um this house was built in 1988 um so I guess um from from a future
looking perspective I love santal Colonial so but there small from a future perspective does that mean then that anything that we intend to do uh the facade or you know basically on our property will be subject to a review by this subject to review so they're due to
the age of the house it's not a contributing property so that means you're not going to be required to retain any aspect of it uh but the changes would need to be compatible okay with the district overall that's right okay so and I also noticed that one of
the things that um you know specifically included were were solar panels that there are some specific specific um specific things that cannot be shown I mean I can't direct the sun's you know sort of thing so yeah so that's
possibly I could never have solar panels installed in my house the the existing design guidelines don't really discuss solar panels and one of our objectives for this year is to update the design guidelines because a lot of other municipalities that have
updated their design guidelines I've found ways to incorporate uh panels into what's appropriate what's not appropriate uh so right now it's not really spoken to okay but um I mean we have um we have approved solar panels um
in the historic district um certain homes um homes where the roof was flat and you can't see it from the street um homes where the solar panels are on the back um but I'm I'm not familiar we have not I don't believe we approved any
solar panels in the front of a house um and based on you know the training that I have had I don't know if we're going to be there yet um but that said um you know in historic preservation there's
constant you know initiatives to modernize and identify materials that you know help us live in a modern world but also help retain character it's and it's it's complicated with your house since it's not even you know a a
historic it's a non-contributing home um but I do think um you know it would be you it's it's a little complicated with solar panels because they can be so jarring um within the character of the of the historic district if they were in
the front of the house um yeah all I can say is it's actually part of our discussion on the agenda tonight is to talk about identifying things in the design guidelines that need to be updated and we're going to be soliciting feedback from the public about what they want to see in those design guidelines
what has worked well what hasn't worked well so um I know you don't have a lot of experience in the district more than a couple days now but uh I think we'd still be interested to hear what you want to see that those those design guidelines be like so there I think there will be surveys and and more
opportunities for comment on that yeah that would be great especially since it's not a contributing property but you know obviously there are opportunities for us to sort of live also yes the modern world but like you know conservation of energy is also really important exactly yes and my property
happens to have a large roof that faces Southwest and that's the only one that I could do which is Station Road everywhere else is shaded right so so but but the thing is that these are some of the important things um you know especially since I'm at the cusp of being a new owner of his property uh and
also understanding how this is going to affect us right I appreciate that thank you so much thank you for coming and welcome okay anyone else have uh comments or questions have another I don't want to hug hog any time
here um again Mark brasy uh 167 North Main I have the same concerns uh that I issued before and that's again the properties on North Main starting with my property as I explained earlier you
can't see the house I bought that property specifically I designed a passive solar home in 1982 before anybody knew about passive solar put the house way back on the property so I could do again at that time very uh
early design for solar uh and provided all the right buffers and again I I'm just hearing a discussion I'm just still kind of amazed that that's being considered as an exension of the historic district uh so it's my house my neighbor
to the South I don't know what this cross hatch means consider adding uh house is the same thing flag Lots set out all the way back again it seems appro the place I have the big problem is we have a
historic village we call it historic district it's really the historic village and taking three historic homes outside the village which were part of farms and now extending the village I think lessens the importance of the
village because how far do we go we could go across uh the street to a couple of homes that we preserved uh right next to warehouses uh or the one on U next to the police station those are
all preserved homes they're not part of the historic village but they are historic and we want to preserve those characters so I definitely understand that but I think extending all the way up and taking east and west side of North Maine and now making it part of
the village I think lessens the importance of the village as opposed to strengthen it what is missing though just the opposite South Main Street we don't go south enough we have historic houses on South Main South of Old
Trenton Road it's not shown here at all we need to protect those houses as well so again whether have to do it spot maybe we do it spot and at least protect that house and may maybe not the surrounding area if we can't do that but I think that's probably more important
than including all these houses to the north which really don't add any value to the historic district because again we're a farm we were a farming community and that's our farm houses so we can't bring the farmhouses into the village
and I guess that's where I have a real problem having having these three historic homes is part of the village you it's not part of the village so Mark if you look on if you have the notes in front of you if you look on page seven you'll see that there's actually there's not three Homes North of Plainsboro Road
there's 1 two three four five six seven 8 nine 10 11 13 contributing resources that are North Plainsboro Road so it's not so it's not just the three homes that were designated in 1989 right I'm referring to the three not attached to the Village yes and so
there but so it's not just those as what what's driving the expansion it's those uh other properties those other resources that are contributing to the district and so um I I agree with you to the extent that uh it's not as dense as in terms of contri the ratio of
contributing to non-contributing it's not as dense as as further south um into the core of the village I agree with you on that um I guess the balance is if the township wants to um to preserve the that historic character because there are a number of contributing resources
including a key contributing resource um up there that's not part of the district today so it's it's it's trying to balance that but I but I do agree that it's less dense less less concentrated yeah the interesting thing when you drive in the historic cranberry sign is
at the beginning after you you pass in so again it's what are we designating historic The Village I think is what we're talking about based upon again the 79 and 80 you know designations of the village but again I think this South uh houses to the South I know a couple of
people have those houses and they were shocked that it's not listed on some of them are going to be surveyed we're actually going to be applying for a grant to so that they can be surveyed and then in the future possibly considered for uh designation they are kind of separated
by that that the newer like last five years builds that are north of them in between them and the village so it's it's going to be harder to justify including them in the district since it's got so much space in between them with modern builds but uh we are going to survey them and maybe they would be
good candidates for individual designation in the future yeah we're surveying a bunch of different homes all throughout cranberry um so I mean yeah our work never ends as you know I'm a big proponent of historic preservation I don't think I have to say that and that's why I I just I want to strengthen
it and not weaken it it seems like it weakens I mean um ac across the street from 165 which is the most northern uh house that is historic across the street are the lots uh I guess it's Silver's lane or yeah Silver's Lane there are
three lots that front or are rear to North Maine they're not included and they probably have as much of an impact as the house across the street even though it's the rear yard so you know we yeah they were part of the buffer before and I mean I have to tell you it was kind
of it was kind of silly the way they were coming in front of us um because of their backyards I mean but it was it was kind of a waste of their time our time your time um so yeah and I mean I will
say I I to Echo Brendan I do agree 100% it's it is less it appears less dense on the map um it's not this effort is not just to add three houses to our Village um the master plan reexamination wanted
you know our our call to action was to streamline um the district and and I do think that the agricultural areas of um of North Maine are important to our history in part of our district definely
um and and I do I I'm not going to address all of the comments you made earlier uh we'll take those definitely under consideration but I will say your home was part of planning board's recommendation to include within the historic district mainly because of the
Agricultural implications and the vistas views from from afar and um the cohesiveness of you know they didn't want us to be um doing one on one side of the street and not another on the other side of the street because of the
streetscape um I hear what you're saying about your home being uh set back um we'll take that back of course um to look at but I did want to make sure you knew that um you know I think we originally didn't have your home on and
I believe we added it at the No it's it's on it probably was on on there were some other homes that were you know up there that we didn't have and then we we were encouraged to add because of the whole the the feedback from planning board uh we're trying our best to make
everyone as happy as possible I know very well your your troubles to do that Mark I hear your concern about the silvers Lanes um and so one of the things that we were able to find was that those properties when the when that development was subdivided
they have a 25 foot landscape buffer easement on the part of the property that it faces North Main Street so we're hopeful that that 25 foot landscape buffer easement will help preserve the character of that stretch of North M uh
your particular property has doesn't have an easement on it and I know that you're going to always be respectful of it but honestly there's no place to build on it because we have the stream next to it so you could put anything in the front yard so it's the same kind of issue there's nothing ever going to be
in the front you can never see into the property I I you know I'm not as concerned with my house to come before this commit first of all doesn't matter uh to come before the committee is is your time and my time so it's not an issue it's more the whole concept of
from my perspective lessening the importance of the district and the way it would set up is making more importance the his the agricultural history that here's a farmhouse that served the farm and and and I go back a little bit
to the the trouble on that specific write up about my house and everything shown if you want to talk about history I'd rather talk about the history of the property and the house in front was a an basically an egg farm and all that history I'd rather if we want to do it
for history I'd love to do that and bring it up to date but not talk about just the structure you you can't see it we're losing the the historical value I think a little bit that's the concern fair enough than okay thanks very much and I hope to get an answer about my
other request too it's really troubling to me and my wife we even came out to a meeting tonight that she want to hear thank you thank you okay does anyone else have any other questions about what we're working on
don't be shy okay all right um excellent so at this point I think we can close our our public hearing um I don't think we have to vote I mean yeah yeah we didn't vote last time so um
Jennifer I came here sugges to talk about the destruction of crry station H to come up later in yes that we were going to cover that during public discussion um right public comment at the end of the meeting
right I mean we yeah we do have Hamlet I since you're here and to save your time if I don't make you sit through everything because we do have a lot of business um we can talk about the Hamlet earlier okay
thanks um no we have a couple things on our agenda just to go through really quick um okay so um at this point um what we were going to do is talk about our 2024 accomplishments and 2025
goals um and so I apologize for again everything so last minute but um we did um I did draft it out based on our accomplishment from last year I
did my best to try to fill in details with this year's accomplishments and then I put in a status based on our goals what we accomplished last year and what is still in progress um so maybe what we could do is
first start talking about accomplishments and does anyone have any additional accomplishments that you think we should try to capture uh in our yearend report I like how you added under 2024 goals
what has been executed and what is in progress that's what we're going to use to figure out our our 2025 yeah oh and I see your edit yeah I think that I need to do auto switch on some of these um like the years I tried to fix as many of them as I could but the training I the
training needs to be updated it still sort of reflects 2023 um and I'm going to lean on Robin before before she goes to help update that information days um but yes I tried my best to try
to um pull up what I had in my master PowerPoint um anyone have any other it's a decently long list yeah and just for the audience just so you know um if you're curious I mean some of the
accomplishments we had we had a lot of accomplishments um we we kept we tracked our training hour our hours of volunteer work I can't wait to tally it up because we actually do a lot of work outside of our HBC meetings some other huge accomplishments
was the interactive map um that was is a very you know high-tech tool very detailed very um you know useful for for homeowners history Buffs um we had our first table at cranberry day um we're really try this year to do a lot more
public Outreach um because we don't want anyone to say oh I don't know um about what's going on so we do um we did I think uh six different announcements in the mayor's emails we also took those same announcements and we put them in
the town kiosk down below so if you're ever curious to know about what HPC is up to um our latest information is in that kiosk um and then we of course have Flyers that we create um for the mayor's email um we had our two planning board
meetings um we also did a inventory Dave Sabo LED this beautiful inventory of all these historic sites that are outside of the historic district um we um worked on um revolutionary New Jersey um we
provided feedback um to the township on the Gateway signs that they're working on in conjunction with the bike plan um we also installed all the new street signs this year our last last year uh we had a public presentation at the library
all about the um um surveys that we did uh with Richard grub um so yeah we had a lot that we we accomplished um anything else okay all right so um as far as um
goals that uh for this year um I'll skip the ones that we've executed upon um the one that we are still in progress with which I was going to suggest we just continue on for 2025 is the designating the properties
um that were proposed in 2021 public hearing and remove the buffer area around the VOR District so what we've been talking about continue that as a goal for the year should the description be kind of updated to talk about all of the like
input from the planning board I mean it's not just the 202 meeting anymore I know it's like so yeah we could right yeah planning for a be planning board um as well as the um
design guidelines that we're updating and the ordinance as well and the go for this year okay I will try to build that out um okay we have also the Hamlet um
Certificate of Eligibility um and I was going to suggest that we keep that as a goal for this year um then the let's
see um oh this is the of the invent the properties that we've inventoried that are outside of the historic district um this um the the one of the things we didn't do was uh yet is notify the property owners that we're um looking at
those properties um and so do we want to make that a goal for this year I would say we probably should is that in conjunction with the CLG Grant application in conjunction with then we move ahead with exactly okay so I'll say
contingent on CLG Grant on CLG Grant and the CLG Grant is to survey the property properties Y at this point that's it a lot of it farm houses outside the historic district
yeah um then um continue to work with the owner of the candona train depot um to preserve the depot I think um we can continue with that um and um participate in a joint effort with Township committee to implement
Gateway signage I actually suggest we take that out because I think that we've provided our feedback back and um it's it's they you know I don't think we need to focus on that at this point anymore agreed okay um can you guys think of any other
goals for 2025 maybe should we add in more um continue our public Outreach like we did last year yes you can change that from executed to in progress okay it's the same thing
yeah well yeah in progress or just just bring I'll just carry it forward we did execute last year's plan but yeah um I'll I'll bring that one forward as a goal for this year as well okay excellent all right thanks so much you guys I will update this uh send this out
to you guys what is the due date for that um we did the you did the presentation last year like in March March but it's due so it's due to the state on a certain date and then it we appear before the Township committee on
a certain date as well okay um I will follow up we're we're in February so we should be good with time I think it's in March yeah I can try to find um a town committee to present to in March
um GC excellent um great okay um so the next item on our um list is design guidelines um so one thing we were we talked about last month was talking
about the design guidelines and researching and looking at other Town guidelines did anyone I know Amy was going to be researching it she got sick um did anyone have a chance to look at guidelines so I actually found um
highlighted on the state historic preservation office uh website the Cape May guidelines and uh also there's a little bit of background about it saying it was a CL Grant project for 2023 at a cost of
$44,000 and they had some really cool um products deliverables for their um for their um guidelines they made them much more interactive first of all so they were electronic as well as being hard
copy but they're searchable um they also did several presentations to different uh geared toward different audiences like design professionals and real estate as well as um homeowners Property Owners um they
also generated pamphlets based on the design guidelines so there's a whole bunch of products right that really helped with the public education aspect of the guidelines so um and I was just looking uh during our conversation they have a whole section on solar panels and
such so I think it would be a good a good example for us to look at yeah um I when I found out Amy was sick I did research as well um and um I found coincidentally um the town of Westfield
New Jersey um updated their guidelines um back in 20201 I want to say or 2022 and um coincidentally their language actually some of it exactly mirrors our language which makes me
think maybe there's a similar um author um and so what I was thinking about doing tell me if you guys think this was a interesting idea is sort of taking our side by side and seeing how they um updated theirs because um then and just
doing a comparison and identifying what new language they did they added to theirs that's not in ours um obviously we know solar panels is important to look at um I think also synthetic materials like sidings and stuff like
that um and um like doing sort of a comparison um so that was one idea I had um and then the other was um I found some guidelines for a town in South Carolina where they actually listed materials and stuff in the back which
was kind of I thought very would be very helpful for a homeowner um I mean it's not very detailed materials it's like wood versus plastic but it would list like if your home is contributing versus non-contributing um you know what
materials are appropriate um so it gives some guidance um and then some other ones um this oh the C the um the one in South Carolina also has like a very nice sort of like flowchart that shows a lot of details about how to work with the
historic preservation commission and how to submit an application and what the process is for it being reviewed and has like a nice flowchart that I figure we could maybe take a look at and like deviate from um to just provide more education for for homeowners um
so what what I was thinking about in terms of how we could maybe go about this is um you know after we've done the survey I think maybe like a couple of us could sit down and kind of print bring our printouts and sort of you know lay
things side by side and sort of start putting things together um and maybe just using Adobe advance to sort of Mark up this PDF um that we have already um to figure out how we go about it um
sounds good yeah so maybe give it a think like if anyone's interested in getting involved in the details of these design guidelines um I'm I'm obviously will you know help a lot with this I you know some experience that'd be awesome thank you
gu um cool and and maybe we can bring in more of you guys too and know as well so um good when as you look at other towns I think one of the things I'd be interested to see is if they have language written that helps Define uh
how much weight to put on how visible the thing is from the public right away so for example in our current guidelines I think if you had a wood window in the back I don't think you're allowed to change it from wood but we do we allow people to to up to change materials on
things that are not very visible from the street and wondering how other municipalities have kind of written that into their ordinance in a way that gives more flexibility but also will be true to the preservation that is interesting I don't
I don't remember seeing that but it some of these documents were like 150 pages I tried to find ones that were shorter like ours like 50 pages I me you guys all agree we don't need to go crazy into the 150 Pages yeah I think
graphic is a lot of has a lot of value but I think they're important important items to to spell out as well but yeah I'll make a note of this for for us and for our minutes that we want to think about how we articulate how we weigh
like the location of the design elements um would you will you circulate the links to the the other towns I can do that I can I I saved each of the little PD PFS on my um desktops I can put them maybe into the folder or something so
you guys can see and I I always find it's good to find the best practice and then sort of figure out how we deviate from it um so yeah um okay design guidelines awesome okay um so the next
thing too is um um I drafted out a survey uh for us to send to homeowners and um we could also use you know in when we interview like some of the local you know contractors Architects here in town
um so I put it in the folder but it was kind of late so I think that maybe we could do is like ask you guys to look at it after this meeting and like weigh in um about it and then I can pretty easily I've done this before for work is just
put it into a survey monkey and we could you know send it out to the town in the mayor's email and give people an opportunity to to chime in um and then guy were you the you were the one that also um um we we should probably start making a list of
like who we which Architects and like um contractors we want to talk to Sue and guy that's right Sue and guy yeah so once we have it I'll I can create a version like right now it's in a Word document you can like use that to collect the one-on-one feedback from
them um and then with the survey mon can get like it'll put it all together with from the the homeowners um what that I think there's an architect over there
ah um okay awesome okay all right awesome okay so um any other comments guys about guidelines uh yes and then also because what's driving us updating this year is to make sure that we're distinguishing between contributing and
non-contributing buildings with those guidelines so in that notes is a first crack at separating out the you know things that have to do with compatibility and the things that have to do with retention and so we should be double checking that work to make sure
that everyone on the commission agrees that we've done in in the notes on the amendment the last five pages on the notes and amendment is an attempt to separate out our current design guidelines into to compatibility guidelines and retention guidelines so
right here 25 pages okay all right so everybody's homework to study these and make sure that that's a good starting point for that or not I did you guys read this um language here uh section 937 like I studied that for this meeting
in preparation and I actually didn't have any comments about anything I thought it was perfectly fine yeah I mean I do I don't know that we want to get into it if we're g to do the other I think we have to review it more offline but they need to be
updated a little bit with materials and synthetic materials okay paving materials fencing it says what kind of fencing not to put in there's no suggestion what in other sections it suggests what to use okay okay so I
think there's fair enough okay so we need to Reis should be all part of the cons okay um sounds good um any other comments okay so we all have homework to do um okay certified local government
grant CG Grant um we had an extension to April yes so Sue and I met with Lori um last week week before a Friday it a Friday yes from this past Friday yes we had a very good meeting to get lay everything
out um and that was under the guid the the plan that it was supposed to be submitted February 28th so now we have it extended but y uh Lor is working on framing out the grant CLG Grant application and she'll be getting a
draft back to us uh shortly okay we can did we end up with 88 88 88 89 properties and is our goal to get it done like now to submit it like April 10th or is our goal to try to get it
done like you know sooner whenever the the April 11th I think is the due date yeah so it would be done like the day it's online you don't have to worry about transporting it down by career do we think there's any chance that it could hurt us to submit it later um
versus like getting it in sooner no okay I just wanted to double check because I saw in the timeline they had said that they would they could potentially release approvals in may think time and then if someone gets it in before us could we be a disadvantage
yeah but there's Federal funding here so there's there's some funds we have to make sure that the state has to make sure that's going to be getting funds so I attended a a webinar uh by the um preservation leadership Forum they were
talking about the new Administration and its impact on historic preservation what they were explaining is that the CLG grant funding has been frozen with the new Administration so that could be an explanation for for theay the the much
welcome time extension um but they did say that kind of a an important date is the March 15th like budget hearings um federal budget hearings and so I think more information will be available after March 15th so there's like okay we'll
know it's it's a go I think after to that point March 15 okay all right so we'll check in in this next next month in our next meeting sounds good um okay so for um HPC public
Outreach um I actually started um drafting out a timeline for public outreaches to do um and obviously things like the student um
advisors that would be a public Outreach um um I have a a list um I can send it to you what I kind of started thinking about um but if you guys have any other oh one one that I did have that I think might be helpful is we are starting to
see a couple of folks who are doing work without submitting applications and so I was thinking that maybe sooner versus later we do one to say like if you're in historic I know this is all of you guys know but if you're in the historic district and you're going
to do a project you need to do an application um so um it would be good it would be good to get that back out there I know because I don't think everybody realizes it yeah yeah so yeah the um
okay so yeah so okay um so that was that was one I thought would be like maybe a good sooner versus later I thought we could also um dust off the one about the library collection and maybe do it again
in the summer like summer reading um and then obviously part on the list was um doing cranberry day again um and then there was I had one other idea for an Outreach oh doing um HPC versus chps doing a communication that
distinguishes between the two um so I I drafted it out and I can send it to you guys for the next meeting to look at um so we'll continue on with our public
Outreach um okay do the Hamet next yes why don't we talk about the Hamlet um so um right now um I know we have um some questions from the public um does anyone have any
other comments or updates about the Hamlet uh I do know Sue and I are going to be working um later this week on the um Certificate of Eligibility um working on getting that going um but we have been of course you
know it's been a challenge given that the Hamlet is part of it as Monroe um and yeah so we'll just we're going to continue and we're going to try to make a plan um yeah I think that's it uh so yeah so Mr
Moody did you wantan to yeah [Music] sure yeah so some of you know me my name is Richard Moody and I live at 24 North Main Street and um I've been a staunch historian and preservationist for many
many years I started off when I first came to the state uh leading walking toward was for the Historical Society of Princeton when I moved to cranbery about 15 years ago chips asked me to do the same and I've been doing them for years except hence the stick I ejected from a
burning fighter during the Vietnam war and it's come home to Roose so now I'm doing them in a car uh which has been proved quite successful because older people can't walk all the way around the village but anyway so um I've been to be honest brutally Frank I've been very
disillusioned and upset that the Hamlet the CR station Hamlet has been destroyed the only thing left as you know is the remains of the little station itself which is totally derel covered in Weeds and bushes and I just like to remind
everybody about the history there because it's a tremendous history um as we all know it's down the other side of Station Road you cross 130 go on down and it's next to py py Reed Road well Brown and Gibson store was built in 1806
there which subsequently became Chamberlain and Berkeley and that brown and Gibson was actually the first male collection point for crany there were no post offices in those days and the mail was taken by horse and cart into the village and then delivered the first
post office wasn't built until 1898 at 31 North Main Street um then in 1830 the Camden and Amber boy Railroad and and the station were built and and the road and the station opened in 1832
so it's a few years ago and in 1833 the John bull locomotive the wonderful steam locomotive made in my original country England operated uh until the late 1860s and also of Interest right here in the
historic village is the Civil War drill Hall on Maplewood Avenue which was built in 1860 and and if you look at it the entrance way it's it's a wide door but it's now been partly filled in and there's a Contraption on the top and what they did was they hung artillery
pieces and then they could swing them inside and the militia could take them to pieces and learn how to put them together again and so that's where the Civil War soldiers were trained and then they went to the little cottage which is now at the corner of uh Station Road and
Main Street the northeast corner and that was a cobbler Crispin Shoemaker whatever you want to call it store where they got their Mar watching boots then they were taken to the famous station and shipped South for the Civil War so there's a was a tremendous history there
and um I I've been following the discussions in the township committee meetings because of course it was a designated historic district its ordinance number still there 150- 1117 so I have to be quite rude I can't
understand why the historic preservation commission didn't live up to its name and Preserve historic district um and why was it allowed to be destroyed I mean it's got a great history and um who actually authorized its destruction was
it owned by I don't think it was owned it's part of Monroe as well isn't it I think you said yeah yeah some of the homes the homes Monro yeah the ones on the other side yeah but I mean was Bley Chamberlin and Barkley the owner that sold it and if so
why they were allowed to sell it and I understand it's going to be at least one warehouse and a number of Office Buildings um I was over there just recently just to see if anything had changed it's still just derel um so I
understand that there was no actual realtor involved in the sale a lawyer handled the whole thing I think Bobby you confirmed that to me um and um again I just don't understand if it's a preserved District as it was in our ordinances why it wasn't something done
about it to stop it and is the the remaining remains of the station itself going to be renovated and made to look kind of attractive old historic building so these are my comments and questions that I would love to know the answers as to what happened and you say that there
is obviously a lot of discussions to be had about it is it going to be renovated in any way or but not if it's warehouses we don't need any more warehouses do we more trucks more warehouses more Office Buildings and particularly on a historic
district so thank you very much thank you any any feedback shoot me down in flames we can answer some of your questions for sure um I think almost all of them but first of all thank you so much for the history um I didn't know about the Civil War and then the Male
carrier I did not know that preceding tomb BR and barkly was a nail carrier um so that's really great information um um the the um the district the the historic district um we
were approached by the homeowners um several years ago the ones next to it on What's that the ones next to it on the red next um you know inquiring about creating a historic district um prior to that there had not been appetite by
Township committee um and HPC you know preceding all a lot of us is was very still focused on the The Village District um the we we looked into you know this this Hamlet and we all felt
very uh passionate about preserving it um and we but we ran up against some challenges the first is that a couple of the houses are actually Monroe within the Hamlet um and the second is that the Chamberlain and Barkley property is
privately was owned by um you know the Chamberlain and Barkley the family um that included the um the rail station as you will um and it was privately owned and um when we worked to create the
historic district um we were given feedback that Chamberlain and Barkley was not to be included within the um historic district uh because it was privately owned and the town um didn't want to um engage with the owner about
that you say so the ordinance is meaningless then it says in ordinance as I say number 150 -117 the whole area is a historic district you say the the the ordinance has the homes in the hamlet within the within the historic district
but the Chamberlain and Barkley property uh was never designated and there was not any support uh by Town committee um to discuss this with them uh at all um so
unfortunately um they had a private sale they sold it to a warehouse you know uh company uh we met with him he came into our meeting we had a very um very uh
positively attended um group we had people from chips who spoke with him and uh the owner of the building agreed with us that he would um not de demolish the rail station um but that he you know he purchased the property to build a
warehouse and so you know he was gonna who has actually bought the property the it's a company called Hadid um and they're a they're a warehousing company but they are they're not 247 they're more of a storage um Warehouse they're not like an Amazon
it's a little bit different so they bought the whole of the area yeah yeah and so yeah it is unfortunate um I think that um you know we were we were sad that that happened um um and then as far as authorizing the
the demo um it was authorized by the Buildings Department whoever approves the demo permits um but um because the property isn't historically um wasn't historically protected um it was never brought forward to us we had no say
unfortunately if it's if it's designated historic district surely everything in that it was in the historic district it's specific so there is there's a map on on the township website that you can look at the district boundaries in which properties are included and so when the township committee designates a district
they're designating specific properties rather than the area as a whole and so one I'd also just raise um attention to the fact that we plan to survey the train depot the surviving structure but it itself is not inside the historic
district so even uh regardless of of what we learned through the survey and are able to preserve about the history through that documentation that property itself still doesn't have any protection um in terms of what the owner wants to do they it's outside of the district well I mean you
know with all the history of that Hamlet station 1830 surely it should have been part of the historic district and preserved I don't understand that I I I I I agree with you um unfortunately I
have to say I at when this whole thing was happening um you know there were voices that were stronger than my opinion it's very sad I think very sad here we are all the talk today of preservation and stuff and here we got an example of
it didn't happen yeah well on a bright note one thing that um you mentioned to earlier is that uh we are working with the trying to get a Certificate of Eligibility to get that whole area um designated with the the state and then
ultimately if you can get through the state then you can keep moving it up to get to National um and and when we met with the state um unlike cranberry that wanted to create a historic district with just individual properties and only ones that they're within their
jurisdiction um the state wants us to take the entire area um and you know that includes the houses in Monroe the rail Depot station and you know and try to designate that whole
area um so that is something that we are working on um but it's again it's complicated because you have um you know different towns involved um and you know information that needs to get submitted is there any way that control can be
made on not building a warehouse though I mean no no no don't have any say on that no zoned light industrial sort of um there's so there's um legislation at the state level right now that was
brought uh it's it's it's currently under debate at the state level and it has to it's it's stemming from uh Allentown New Jersey and a warehouse that's proposed near the historic district in Allentown it's an the warehouse being proposed actually across the border and upper Freehold uh and the
legislation that's proposed would limit the ability to build a warehouse within 1,000 ft of the historic district um there is an exception for if a planning board wants to Grant approval then there so far but this is just it's at the state level that sort of protection and
it's also not anything that the state has finalized but but if you are interested in in following that there there is something in this state Senate and assembly that would have implications for allent toown and possibly for cranberry um depending on what the planning board wants to do with
that area okay thank you that is great news I wasn't aware of that I just saw it today off the proces so it's legislation a524 one and s4048 so that made me wonder are you
know is the Hamlet within a thousand feet of yeah so I do I I I I wish that this legislation had been brought forward like 10 years ago um but um hopefully
um maybe we'll see that's a always hope right okay well thank you very thank you so much say I'm very disillusioned and disappointed being a historian I understand we guess there nothing that be done really changed
it thank you okay thank you um okay so um why don't we talk about the next item on the agenda student um volunteer for the commission um I updated the flyer and um I I do have to
unfortunately take Rob name off a bit and we'll add um our new Gina welcome Gina um I do have a note into the Princeton High School folks to see if
this is something that can approve for um volunteer hours but I have to say I reflected on it a lot more you guys I'm worried about putting any promise of them getting hours in this flyer at all I think we can try to find out um but I
worry about because what if um another school doesn't approve it you know for hours like let's say it's a kid from Princeton day school and they don't get hours for it but a kid at Princeton High School does or you know I worry about
promising volunteer hours to kids um yeah they can figure that but experience you know and and participation in uh local government I just have one one uh um comment
suggestion under who should apply yes um when you have you know we're looking for two dedicated high school students who meet these qualifications the first the first four bullet points I see as qualifications the last one interested in historic
preservation architecture planning or American history I think my opinion we're looking for two dedicated high school students interested in historic preservation architecture planning or American history who meet these qualifications
sure than clarifying y you got it you know the other comment is just a minor graphic comment that there's a stray bullet point the third from the top next to end
opinions that's part of oh yeah look at that I see that okay thank you um I was going to suggest that that first bullet point under what you'll do uh says HPC meetings to stay actively involved meetings are on the third Tuesday of
each month at 7M so I would suggest that say meetings are held uh and then say at Town Hall cranberry town hall or something just so they know they're not virtual meetings good good point
Y that town hall perfect another design comment uh the township the uh just not technically a seal but we'll refer to it as a seal um it's kind of has that highlight the circle fix that yeah it's cut off
somehow and if you want that in red I have a version of that in red that has a red circle already kind of on the I can I'll send that to you if you want to incorporate that yeah you can send it to me okay awesome so what happens next with this
is it almost ready to go live yeah then we go live and I think um we we we sent it out in the mayor's email um and then what I thought and then we wait a little bit we could maybe send it out like closer to again in May you know as a
reminder um and and then in June on June one we um we we start looking at the applications and see you know so how do how do we know whether there have been applications received there's like um a
little this is a takes you to that form the one that we all fill out right um it's very basic it just says like are you interested in being on a board and then kids would just write their name and email and then it somehow makes it to Robin yeah it goes directly to the clerk and then the clerk will send it to
me I me and then I gu we ask them and then and then maybe you know we see what we get and we can maybe ask them like you know can you write us a paragraph about yourself um you know I don't know how much information I don't think they can the passes not a lot of information
exactly there is comments where they can describe their experience okay yeah so we'll see how detailed it is if it's enough for us to like figure out you know what they're about yeah yeah but I don't think we should make them write resumés or like you know do anything crazy like that my experience with these
things keep it as simple as possible maximize the number of uh applicants and then sort it from there you can always ask for more exactly um good all right so um
Revolution New Jersey really okay uh training so we had the historic resource surveys training was that mentioned last month or not no no I sent that to Robin that I I
that that webinar yeah I think I attended the historic resource survey webinar and then I shared it with Robin so to recommend that you all can check it out it looks like of us did good it was so excellent and I shared it
with Lori okay for the grand app it gave some other ideas uh instead of not only intensive level surveys of properties but also areas themes so you could do farmhouses you could do cemeteries you could do okay
train stations and I finally understood what an intensive level survey was after hearing that term for the last six seven years that's good and I would just comment if I may on uh Bow's report I'm
I never I don't remember seeing these extra pages and I'm shocked because it was only supposed to be from the street yeah so we'll do everything we can to get those off that's that that was not supposed to be so that that is also on the state
historic preservation office that's going to be in the survey reports I I think we should ask the surveyor that for any properties that they stepped on to uh if like if they reive permission from the homeowner before doing so because then maybe it's not the only one
uh and so I think we should we should follow up with the surveyor on that that was not in the guidelines I don't remember that ever happening honestly that's we'll have to unless they thought that was a street I don't know yeah that's the only thing I could think of but that was very very specific yeah
only from from the street and we'll take that feedback for for sure I mean with the next if we get them GLG money and we do these other farmhouses and stuff we've had a lot of discussion about this too because like there's there are some homes that we we had to remove from the list because you can't see them from the
street and stuff like that you know and they're and it's sad because there's some homes here in Cranberry that are all like abandoned and you know awful looking but they're far back and you know falling apart demolition by neglect right so we
talked a lot about you know how we go about this and I mean there's also Google does do Street shots of everybody's home um which yeah from the street though yeah but those are literally from the
street they don't yeah yeah so um oh my gosh yes one more thing on the uh the training um is I thought a great idea that was discussed there is attaching the survey forms to the new
homeowner letters so once when we send those uh we should print out the survey for their home and include it in the envelope I think that be a great introduction to the so that was a suggestion on the webinar yeah oh do you think that's a is that extra I mean it's a little extra work on your
end but or on Gina's end yeah she could do okay all right Town Hall doors I don't know if we want to tackle that today uh short and Robin very nicely passed my comment over to uh Denise and
uh the town hall doors as we discussed in Prior meetings every time I come thir just awful they haven't been maintained they were replaced maybe 20 25 years ago I'm guessing some something like that replacing the old doors and the back and
forth we got you know what painter can you suggest supposed to come up with a painter yeah or uh we got to the point where it almost sounds like they want to replace the doors like the back ones they're not
they're not shutting properly so I I again these doors aren't old I I don't know why they're not maintained are they my my biggest question is are these doors part of like I think that if the town wants to replace the doors they need to put forward an
application they push they pushed it on to us like no who who you know some suggestions for the type of doors to replace we're getting to the point we're trying to we're moving from sustainability we just replaced I don't know 50y old doors or whatever that was
there before with these drawers now these are been neglected so you're going to rip these out and put something else in so is that is that is that what we're going to be doing every 25 years ripping out the front doors I suggested okay
standing it's too far gone for staining um because if you maintained it every couple of years a new coat of varnish it would be fine I said paint it cranberry red or something something it would pop who suggest a painter that was my for at out of my yeah I I I I think think the
department of push back and but I do believe they should be putting the the application in front of our committee because even though they are we are part of the same entity like we should be looking at it because this town hall is part of our historic inventory and if
they're changing their doors they need to put forward a door design just like every homeowner who puts the question was back to us what do you suggest we can't we don't do it for the homeowners just like the town we can't do it for I said we do have two architects on the on the board I'm not sure that we can't
make I'm not sure that we can't make a recommendation like I I think we can yeah we do all the time to homeowners ask I think it's okay if we make a recommendation but I do think I mean it's it's a nationally listed property and it's a key contributing property in the district I do think they're going to have to submit there going to have to be
an application I think it's okay that we make a recommendation to help them yeah I think that's fine we do I mean that's what we do with home owners exactly but can we get but um make it clear to them that they need to make an application yeah they could ignore us
speak I think that's a great idea but again if if if if it will take care of but just a suggestion so I I always like to look at day two replacing the doors is one thing if that's the way we're going to go which again that's B
but I think the township has to look at what is the maintenance schedule to keep these doors looking good and me so they're not deteriorating so you're not ripping out again in 20 years yeah because even if you paint them they're still going to need to be repainted and
exactly but there should be a maintenance schedule these doors haven't been touched since they've been put in they still could be be finished they could and again it's probably too far gone to sand it and VAR maybe stain it a little bit darker but again you can go to paint
and they would look very nice that would be very affordable too versus buying a new a recommendation um we'll I'll certainly bring it back to the committee we'll have a conversation about it I think I think your commentary that we're pretty far down the road of replacement
is probably valid um and looking to partner and come up with a recommendation and something we can do is you know but if it's just a appearance these door the comment was the back doors are not shutting properly but it didn't there was no no commentary
well we had somebody look at it and it can't be repaired that should be the first that would be the next up I know DPW did look at it and they the back the back doors are are shot okay from that is you know in the back of the
building not too but this right down Schoolhouse Lane every time you come down the doors are right there my understanding is those have been looked at as well they don't have an easy way to repair specifically the left one coming in this one what's wrong
with the left one how does he know this do he list to it we talked about it oh that's right we did talk about that's my job Jen thank you no and listen I think replace is the is the word of the day so
happy to work in Partnership to find something that fits something that works and something that will be functional and safe for the folks who work in the building okay understood but again please also put forth maintenance so
we're not doing it again in 2025 understood and agreed and if and an application because we should see what it's going to look like if they're replacing it so that it's not matal so it's not hollow metal doors yeah I'll lean on bren's commentary of a
suggestion would be awesome do an application yeah technically I was just saying a suggestion to help the appli along sure exactly concept review right if you if you have any I think this would be a great Partnership of two
organizations that are closely tied together what about what about why don't if they look at the buildings department and see who's put in permits to do work in historic district and find vendors that way I don't think any vendor or
manufacturer has done any of the houses or anything would be appropriate for this this is a public facing duty commercial heavy duty the other comment yeah the other comment was security so I don't know if there's a Township the township uh the
Administration has some concerns or what the spec should be as far as what they're looking for for these new doors for security that's a good question I mean is Township considering like you know what the library access like the library has pretty fancy new doors
because they're a new building the school library has new doors school has new doors they don't they're not going to look like these if we use the library or the school but understood so we'll have to come up with a figure out something a path forward yeah I think I think the
security concerns are are valid you know we need to hear public yeah what the what the concerns are and what kind of protections like now might be the opportunity to provide card access or something who knows what what you're thinking
so yeah that would probably make sense to when we look through design guidelines maybe we'll see what what other towns deal with SEC doors I mean I'll do a little research and see if I come up with
Google it exists I mean I went I was in um Hoboken I went into a historic building it was a bank and it was building was historic but the door was new because it was fancy you know so someone figured something out okay great all right
great um did I skip any other items uh new homeowner letters yes I sent one to 19 Station Road and and 109 North Main Street um okay
minutes any edits to the minutes I made some comments did you re I don't know this time it did work when I did you just do it recently or was this afternoon okay so I don't think I got that yet but I'll Incorporated right so it's it's okay just some minor and Bron
has some amendments we we have the sign for cranbery in that we wanted to look at oh my God I forgot about that new business yeah um so I guess um we knew it public comment do we have
any other public on the minutes oh we have to vot on the minutes that's right um okay so let's vote on the minutes motion motion to approve the minutes so moved second all right roll call Miss sum yes Miss Ryan yes Mr guy yes Mr H yes and
Miss Marlo yes thank you motion passed um identifying uh does I feel like we T we covered that yeah um okay so discussion this is where we can talk
about the the kber in sign no vote okay yeah so um I think it it complies with everything within the sign ordinance um you should explain what we're talking about so there's a uh they submitted a application for a new sign
at the Cranberry Inn to replace the Colonial bar banquet rooms um picture so this here um it complies because of the colors um it complies because it's on
wood um I think they're actually using the same um frame and everything they're calling it an insert yeah the plywood panel that has the sign painted on it just slips into that frame
well hopefully the frame they Shore that up a little bit because maybe the frame will fall apart when now this this sign this sign um so it's to me when I look at it looks like it's two businesses yeah that's okay well it is
sort of two business they own by the same person but they're two things because I remember when um cranberry Pizza moved into the David Wells Building and they we thought they the realtor and primary pizza was
going to use the same pole I remember that and then they ended and there was some discussion about how you do that two business so yeah I don't know in this in the sign ordinance I don't know if there's anything says anyway that's otherwise it
looks good it's better than there well it's okay yeah someone who cares about Graphics yeah it's it's okay the main thing is the is the frame yeah just taking what's there
and inserting a new piece of the frame as you could see from the picture it just it needs some work well the frame hopefully will be reconditioned too I'm actually it's more about the grav I mean I I get picky I guess but I think it's
unfortunate that the stage coach has been sort of reduced and it's not even a stage coach it's really just an Amish cart Ro play sing Single Wars would you want them to this I I would love to see the same
graphic of the stage coding two horses or there are others I've actually did a little research online and there are a couple others that are out there free Graphics that are more similar to the one that's on the sign now they you know they I mean I like the idea of
putting it up on top of the cranberry and the eye cuts off the hores front's legs which is you know I mean these are you know these are graphic things that I see I just get I just bothers me we can recommend that they yeah and I mean
maybe maybe if the stage Coates gets a little longer the the word the goes off over to the side doesn't have to be centered um it could it could center on cranberry instead of the entire cranberry in right shift Center over
cranberry something like that but I mean it would be an easy fix but I that's the only thing that really bothers me I mean you could try all sorts of different fonts the you know helveta comedian is not exactly a historic font yeah for restaurant bar
private events I would have liked to see something that was more of a serif style letter you know font that you know wasn't just a modern block letter thing it doesn't have to be it doesn't
have to be the old English kind of of the existing sign you know I know I have to say I kind of missed I my my got reaction which is why I wanted I had a feeling I was I had I had a reaction to the font change um not like a strong you
know you know bang my fist down type of reaction but like oh it's different I was very used to looking at this sort of font and I know we use it for like the cranberry Town signage the gateways and everything and um I don't know it made
me a little sad that the sort of oldness is is is not there as much can someone who's either more familiar with historic photos of the of design or has been in Cranberry longer than I have and is familiar personally with what it looked
like in the past can can anyone speak to whether this is the existing sign is just a better-looking sign that was put in place in the 90s or is there actually some historic authenticity to the existing sign because that could probably affect whether we need to keep
looking the way it this sign was a replacement for one that was really falling apart was completely deteriorated probably 10 years ago and it was before the sale that they replaced it with this right oh I didn't know that because the
plywood was delaminating and it was it's like it's like the sign in front of Teddy not gonna go there but that's what he just did yeah they're working on it he just did yeah we need to work on that yeah but anyway but it was not different
in design I don't know how far back that design went do you know about I don't remember it didn't be the one that was we moved here in the 80s it didn't look like that yeah okay so so I think so we've we've
we've commented and um I would say maybe what we just do is I mean we don't have any Authority whatsoever with this kind of it's Chapter 93 seven uh yeah the very last the very last bit
mentioned storefronts which include sign there St well this is not a storefront this is a sign signs is listed in the first sentence there so okay just don't I just don't know if we should be here designing a business's
logo like that's not I do think guys's comment about the stage coach thing well is so Sue and I were doing a little uh side research and their current logo has that stage coach and horse in
it so it's sort of maybe it's water over the dam it doesn't bother me that much I wish the horse's legs weren't cut off but stage yeah I just wish it was more of a stage I like the I like the round logo that's on their website and such
maybe they should use that maybe they should use that can I if I make it any larger it's going to disappear for the fourth time you see it's got a circle um I have say the more time I look at it I am starting to get confused about the two companies being super they
could like I mean this is all just they could separate they could put a little more space between the upper part and the lower part to show that there are actually two businesses there it's a little little crowded I agree um okay one so I don't
know where do we go what can we provide some comments and suggestions I mean they did an application I think yeah I think maybe we could we direct them to this discussion on the since it's going to be
recorded and just have them watch it and let us know their thoughts you know um because I think you know again we're we're happy they're there we we love their I love their business I was there for Super Bowl was awesome um so I think
Bobby and I are frequent flyers so I think they submitted an application which is awesome they didn't do the work and then you know submit an application after they did the work so I think that we give them kudos for of that they're trying I know they're trying to do
what's right so um see what they think about our comments I think would be maybe a Next Step well they haven't changed the sign yet right this this is just all photosh no this is like a mockup as you will it's all photoshoop yeah so we there the comments are going
to go back to them and yeah okay yeah she'll call them yeah all right okay good I'll volunteer to meet them at the bar someday and go over some alternates um okay so do we have any
other items of business to discuss I am not going to make it in Princeton back to prin I have to go back to Princeton sorry Princeton um any other comments anything
else Mr Bowski I hope s uh more casy North Main stre first first of all I'd like to thank everybody sitting here for your time and commitment I know what it's like and I I
is a resident really appreciate I hope everybody in town does so thank you very much for that also thank you for not having a three minute Tim Li and having a discussion when we get responses one thing that I've heard from everybody I talked to in
town about Township committee meetings where there's no discussion and a three-minute Tim link it is so frustrating for residents so that that's hopefully something can happen at township committee meetings but I don't know but really that's great uh the more
I sit here the more comments I have so I won't S any more the street signs I don't know if everybody's been compliment how great they are the change in the signs has there been discussion about preserve forland signs because I see that in Plainsboro I
think we need to have signs that this is preserved formally nobody knows I don't know so I heard that on your list I always thought that was required once it was preserved they a sign went up that said it was preserved I think it's by the town
really I've seen it in other towns and I just realized because I I'll tell you about the lastest thing so I think maybe you want that for your list going on um add one more I'm gonna kick that over to
robertt since you were talking about the front doors to the town and you're talking about historic preservation and maintenance those doors are so illegal from a fire safety standpoint when that mullon was added I think for weather you can't get out the
door so that is really critical to think about when the signs get replaced that those are two swing doers with panic bars that work because God forbid we have 49 people in this room and we try to get out it's
disaster and lastly a little uh advertisement and plug I am presenting uh to the general public at large on Sunday afternoon March 9th uh historic preservation in Cranberry presented it to the
uh um yes to the society to the hisorical society and everybody thought it was great and so I'm doing it for the public hopefully we get people to understand what this town and especially Historical Society landmarks and Cha
have done for this town over the last 50 years and one of it was to help create this commission so hopefully that'll be out there we get some good turnout is that at the public library yes it is okay yes so good again thank you very
much thank you all right I'm gonna make a motion to adjourn second okay say I I