we're going to begin by introducing our secretary who is usually the first person to speak in the meeting but because we had a new secretary um I'm going to a motion to appoint Gina uh to be our secretary second okay all right so we'll
do a vote so do I I need to list everybody's name we call I guess so okay just say all in favor say I okay all in favor say I I I okay great all right perfect so now um we can
begin the rest for Mee okay so statement of adequate notice um this HPC meeting is being held on March 18th at 2025 at 7 p.m. pursuant to the Sunshine Law adequate notice in
accordance with the open public meeting Act njsa 10 col 4-6 was provided on January 28th 2025 of this meeting's date time and place the agenda was mailed to the cranberry press and home News Tribune hosted on the township bulletin board
and mailed to those requesting personal notice and filed with the municipal clerk roll call and volunteer hours please miss sum here uh eight Mr guy here four Mr h
here M Marlo is not here yet um Mr Sabo uh here five miss villini here one one and Mr Christopher is not here yet okay we have a quorum and you're good to go all right
so we're going to begin first with application um for 30 North Main Street uh block 32 Lot 8 ring guards so we have oh you're here hi so please um come on up um if you could speak into the
microphone say your name and address uh for the record and turn on your microphone yeah yeah okay my name is Arun meta and it is for 30 North Main Street so um um so Mr Ana I um this is
um an application I know that was triggered more so by HPC um and so um I guess the first the first question before we even go into this was um I guess I wanted to make sure that um
you understood a little bit about our committee and how it works um how we work um so I know that I believe you're a newer owner of the the Ells Hall yeah which is fantastic we're so happy you're here and welcome to Cranbury um so um
upon the time that you arrive we usually we always send a new homeowners letter to people um to explain um what the historic district is all about and and everything um we have a design guidelines that are on our
website and um we're a board we um you know advise um we provide you know we're guidance board um you know our goal is to preserve our our district um of our town and so um you know we really focus
for your building um really on what's on the outside um so we never we don't talk about what's on the inside you can you have pretty much Liberty to do whatever you like inside um so I think our our big a big question is if you could just take us through a little bit about this
project and how it started and how you got to where you were what had been there um before you installed the the metal uh window wells um and then we can talk about it from there sure so quick story like uh
in November um last year um we got rain and um we never go in the basement because basement is not something that we are using but there was water in the basement our tenant informed us that there is water in the basement and it can you know there is a risk of mold and
all right so we got worried and we thought okay let's fix it as quickly as possible and we got two or three contractors um two of them told the water is main problem is water is coming through the windows because Windows is very old there are there are places the water is just dripping into the basement
and you have to just Safeguard the outer both sides and the water will not go in and U and then we got the code with the scope of work uh we thought we do we need um permission from Township do we own that easement we we are not aware of
anything so we reached out to Robin then Dennis dennise and then um Tom Decker we found that um this doesn't require any permission from the township the easement is owned by the time sh Township so we don't have to do any take
any permissions and also not inform even the neighbors because um the easement where we are doing the work is owned by the township and that's what we came to know again verbally um there's no document that we got from the township but we sent multiple emails to the
township um just doing this communication and then we um just got it installed but we didn't realize that um that maybe the historic we have to inform um his committee okay okay so yeah usually what happens is like if
you're going to make any sort of change that um impacts the view of the building um you can go in and um file for a certificate of um eligibility there's a form on our website um and in an emergency like as what you have um uh we
handle emergency situations we actually just did a roof um yesterday um so um I know sometimes people will try to come in and say oh we it was an emergency so we just did the work and we kind of say like no that's not really um you know we
handle emergency situations as well um so um I think the first question I'd have is where you you said there was water coming in through the window how was the window shaped
um um to the basement right now um there weren't any pictures um so so windows are like um straight and we didn't touch the windows at all so what they what the contractor did is he on both the sides
he just put a French drain so water there was a kind of a slope going into the into our building right so um so what he did is he just put a French drain under the floor so water comes into the French drain and just um you
know goes out okay so but he put the rain guard around those windows was the metal rain guard just to protect the water going going into the you know uh windows so I think both sides three three on this side and three on the
other side okay but they're not much visible from the street as such but they are a little okay so um so like right now I see in the picture I see uh one window without a rainu um and then I see three with with rain guard correct
because that window is above the ground so there no need to put a rain guard there okay yeah and other two are just kind of going below the ground so the window goes up below the ground
correct so that is why the the rain guard was required I see okay so there were existing uh uh window wells at that location is that what what and what were the
original window wells built out of brick um those original they're original windows I think we never no but the the well if if if they had a well originally but if the window sill is below the grade well if you if you go across here
first one it doesn't look like it doesn't look like any of if you follow the brick line I don't know if any of them really go below the grade are the Sills of any of the windows below grade or are they all at the same elevation as the first window no they are still below
grade they're below grade yeah so but where they are below grade is there a window well where there was something that allowed the gr the grade to be lower at that point with maybe a brick you know retaining wall or anything like that no these rain guards and then the French train he he drilled um that
French TR is going to collect the water before it goes there I understand now but I'm just trying to understand what was there before there was nothing there was no God before so what Happ there what earlier what was is that our neighbor they had a like a u flower bed
so in fact it was even worse because um that flower bird had a water pipe so it was watering that flower and the water water was keep going into the uh EI either it is rain or whatever is the case the the water was just seeping in
yeah basement okay so the other comment I have it just seems to me that the wind these corrugated metal window wells yeah to me they seem higher than necessary to keep water from going in I
mean it from the street these do have a visual impact if they were yeah if they were stone wood or brick or even if this was just a foot if it was just like four six inches above would have been enough to protect
the window like two of those corrugated ridges so it doesn't have such an impact and then there's no vegetation to like hide it from the road so it's just um I think what I'm still trying to wrap my head
around is like where the window had been before and what the window well looked like was it that like there was no window well there was no the window went straight to the ground yeah and and that is actually how I did a drive-thru in our town and that is how most historic homes in this District
are um the windows just are straight to the ground well I have my neighbors I have the same thing with the driveway and they have a brick window well but it's pretty much uh it only Rises but the windows are sunk below the yeah sometimes
they're sunk below and there's like a window well or sometimes the window is right at the grade um and so I I understand that in this situation that the water I guess the way the grading had been that the water was flowing down into the
window I think um what I'm hoping we might be able to figure out is some sort of a solution that doesn't involve these metal rain guards that is because they're not um like within the historic like this material didn't exist as you
know may have I don't I don't know that rain you know corrugated metal rain guards existed at the time but corrugated galvanized iron I look this up was invented in 1829 so was somebody doing this to their house possibly and
the the material existed at the time like I've never seen a window well with like I've always seen window wells out of brick and and stone um I've seen these but never this High yeah they've only been and like if
they were there and there was some vegetation in front of it to sort of hide it yeah I think vegetation would be a good fix or do you think I can uh if I put the same Stones which are around I just you know kind of cover that metal
area from both I don't know that that would that that would have to be piled up pretty high I mean I I um you know I feel like that you got you went through the township you got an approval for this so that's one of
that's a problem that that happened but in any case now that it's there I I'm just wondering if there is a way to mitigate it some which you know I would be happy if it's just my my own opinion if you would
be willing to commit to putting some landscape shrubs or something in that strip to screen those window well uh uh guards some from the street so that you didn't see them they weren't quite so obvious okay so on both side of the
building if you put some shr so that they're not seen from yeah if you could put some Hughes or some Japanese Holly or something along Foundation foundation planting along there that would screen it from the street on both
sides you know that would I think that would help yeah to soften it or like or if or just replace the metal with like build a window well it seems like that would be cost a significant cost
difference to require it does require you know but it it's I mean you could even paint them you could paint them to to you know be more in keeping with the brick color you know either deep red or brown brownish red at least they'd kind
of blend into the brick and then with some planting I think they'd be pretty pretty well screened yeah there is like not really any Landscaping in the front here um and I have another question so with the water mitigation
the front foundation wall was that covered over with cement stucko this time yeah this is we didn't touch it that was there okay it looks kind of new that's why I was asking okay so I can try both the things um one
trying painting it and putting it with the shrub and then see how it looks and then I can maybe come back again yeah I think I would do your best and then I mean we'll and yeah we can contact you too if that would be let let try both the things send a note
in to Robin yeah and then we can follow if you won't have to come back Gina I'm sorry to Gina you may have to you may have to deal with that for a while sure I just want to ask I know neighbor is here so were you planning on
making any comments or oh so this is that' be good to see yeah would you mind showing it John wner okay oh they're above grade they are above grade but they're just above grade so why why was the water coming in
then this is on the other side slow drip that was on once a week and it was all Landscaping that they took out line it was all so there was a drip line in there that watering the plant once a week for 15 minutes and it was a slow drip and there were
and some lies in there and they RI them all out like I Wonder Sir if you need the rainu like in looking at this window if it's like this SK yeah I kind of Wonder like is above ground but the thing is I have no I mean
I have no idea about so what we did is we called two or three contractors um we spend like maybe 12 Grand on this with the side and the whole digging and all subal
cost he said that's the way to resolve the problem yeah I saw I mean I definitely faced on that I think the wells definitely be a lot lower they could be eight inches or so
probably above grade even six would probably do it I can I can try looking into it if it can be cut yeah maybe yes you know um yeah I mean they should be able to be cut so yeah give me some time I'll try two three things and then so if you look
at it I think the From The Bottom the first Ridge second third Ridge goes with it should at least that line right there yeah I just could just be at or slightly above the window sill the window sill is not below grade yeah yeah see that's
what I thought when I first originally saw the pictures I thought well there the window well that's why they have to protect it but it's not okay thank you so much for coming for taking care of the OD fellow Hall okay great um so now
we we need to make a we need to vote right um so we're going to make a vote um to approve application with changes based on what we discussed um so I'll make a motion to approve second okay um roll
call Miss sumeer yes Mr Guyer yes Mr H yes um Mr Sabo yes and Miss Vini yeah
yes okay thank you motion pass thank you okay so next we have the crew from the church how are you right how you doing thank you for coming in no problem so tell us a little bit about
your project and again this is another one where we have you know a certificate of you know to file and this one didn't have a any you know paperwork we saw this um driving by from our meeting yeah
I apologize never even crossed my mind and I know we did it when we did the roof on the steeple and so on just didn't think about it so one question I would have is and I've used that door a zillion times is what did the door look like before the one here on School Lane the one that you guys replaced with the
metal so we actually replaced all the exterior doors except for the front door yes so the front door stayed the same the door facing School Lane was actually very similar to this door there it was a double metal door it was just very old rusty it was metal it was metal yes okay
so now this is new metal so we noticed that it was new metal okay and you probably only noticed because it was still uh primed gray that's probably why you really noticed which if that's a requirement that we need to paint it we will we were kind of undecided yet and we couldn't
paint it in December or January anyway so um that's certainly not an issue I think painting would help that's fine I we have no problem if they were white it would much better blend it in yeah yeah I mean we can't comment on on pinkt color but like white would look well
that's what they that's what they were before they were that's that's right there's the picture except for it was Rusty brown on the bottom yeah the other thing is too if you guys ever have this project again like our design guidelines say that you know it's better to have wooden doors right and we get it that
you need for safety purposes um but there are like you can salvage find wooden doors and Salvage and you know you know from a sustainability purpose you know it's an option for next time yeah part of it was a security issue and part of it was at least two of those
other doors have folded in and collapsed from water issues with the flooding when there's been flooding in town and we certainly don't need six inches of water in the basement again yes so that was part of that as well okay but security the reason I brought Mr mcau here he's part of our security Committee of the
church so that's why I had him in case there are any questions on that so these new doors because of potential future flooding hopefully not so these are basically watertight at the at the bottom as much as they can be yes the
problem actually with the old ones wasn't even so much the watertight at the bottom they physically with the wooden doors and wooden frames broke off of the frame and folded sure and then that was the issue with there these are metal doors with Metal Frames so we should not have that issue again okay
does anyone else have any questions or comments no I would just I'd be happy if they painted them yeah or if next time just maybe try to salvage some wooden doors from you know another structure unfortunately too many old structures
are hope last longer hope these will last a long time I think painting would help prolong them I'm fine with sure not a problem all right great okay so make a motion uh to
approved second okay roll call Miss sum yes Mr Guyer yes Mr Hull yes Mr Sabo yes and Miss Vini yes thank you motion passed thank you so much thanks no problem and anything else we
do to the outside I will certainly try to remember hopefully you know we've been doing our best to keep the building up and getting it painted and the new glass p on and keep everything going and hopefully all it's a lot of work we appreciate it good night
you okay and next we're on to our third application the beautiful front windows Hi how are you guys how are you very good very good thanks good so we wanted to I know um I I think that we're going to be good
um but I did ask you come in just because you have gorgeous Windows yeah um and they really are um part of our character in the um you know historic report we have the picture with the windows so I figured we just you know we
also have a window expert here in our uh committee knows more than me not an expert I just like Windows so no so I I'm going to put the same pattern so if you want to see that yeah yeah I think we so it will
[Music] be that's what we because the original application had the the Diamond which really didn't go with get from them before so got to quote yeah this is what this is what you're putting in yeah yeah okay so this
is what it is and it's wood it's Anderson yeah I got a description if you want if you want to see you know what it is going to be okay we yeah they can replicate two pains the two pins so now it is a single pain and you
know it is I mean some other options that I've seen um they make they call product called indos Indo storm windows so it fits inside um that keeps drafts out and they also have same type of product for the
outside yeah yeah I mean this you know first they said like you know FTL so it came out to be very expensive FTL so I told like in between is good enough so one thing just on make note of
on the application it says we'll try to match the pattern no no we going to match the pattern will match we will match the pattern will match yeah that's my only comment yeah okay this is matching yeah it is it is matching it
yeah I mean it has the same lights you know as the old ones no it's very unique and we you know we really don't want to lose that yeah yeah that's going to be yeah okay good all right so I will make
a motion to approve with the one edit that just says will match the pattern that's right yes second second roll call Miss subm yes Mr guy yes Mr H
yes Mr Sabo yes and Miss Vini yes thank you motion passed thank you for coming in good luck with your project thank you okay great uh so next we have the minor and ordinary maintenance repair
approvals okay so we had two which are highlighted on there um the first was 21 South Main Street the cranberry ins sign was approved after um incorporating a different font Baskerville font and then
there was like a change to the logo so that you could see the horse's legs better think yeah anyone see the yeah like yeah wine seller goes with the crear yeah it's more
of yeah yeah and then [Music] um I'm gonna miss the old like the old English font but at the same time those
new beautiful Gateway signs if you've seen them it's like all over town so I feel like the town has kind of taken over that font um so yeah and then um there was an emergency roof replacement
for 38 South Main Street um which was approved today yeah I gan I just had a question about that I had raised a question about the bay window roof that's my question was that that part was not included no changed because it
did look like it looked like SL well actually I think it's painted wood shingles is it really yeah they're shaped yeah they wer they weren't doing that part they were just doing placement then that's fine yeah they were just doing the the upper roof upper roof and
then the front porch roof which was already asphalt it was great that they were yeah I'm glad replacing all of the aluminum trim that was covering the historic trim as well so that's good good yep okay wonderful okay now we're
going into our old business and this is a busy night um but you're zipping right through yes okay so first a m ments to the cranberry historic village District so exciting so um the big update is that
we had a really great call with Liz Ley as well as with and then we had a second call with Liz and uh Walt and Evelyn on planning board and we are prepping to go back into planning board to um to go
through uh the amendment um so then it'll be one step closer to our our end goal um and we had a very good discussion and I think we're going to be ready Liz is going to prepare like a little primer for them um for the April meeting and then in the
May 1 meeting is when um we'll be on the agenda and they're but they're setting it up so that we really probably don't even need to be there um in fact I'm not I mean Brendan I don't know if you want to be there um I don't know if I I'd almost rather not be there I I don't
plan to be there okay I think we should understands we can be accessible um if there's a problem um but yeah I think that's a good plan um so that'll be good and what else
okay research so I put in the packet um our survey um and so I wanted to make sure you guys had a chance to look this through I set it up so that um it's it's going to be we would put it in the
mayor's email for homeowners but there's a place where Architects can also fill out if they want to do like a you know a written survey but the thought is that you and Sue reach out to some of the Architects
and use this for like a one-onone so on that um I have written to all of the Architects that are generally coming but have generally come before us good it's about eight perfect awesome couldn't track down dick shroo
Gina tried but it seems like he may have closed his office so can't get a hold of them but that said everybody else who's appeared before us in the bill is on the list and yeah okay we got them all
perfect almost everybody has responded favorably to getting together I mean nobody's said no I won't get together I just haven't heard from everybody so right I mean given that they're all really busy like we take now that I know that they're all interested in doing this and some of them are excited about
doing um we will schedule a time uh to get together in the coming weeks and get their input perfect the only thing I question I have yes is um let's see and the second page some of the questions got cut off by the way I'm sorry the
second page um I guess the question is not there yeah the question the I live in or my structure is in the historic district gotcha so the question is in the historic district buffer zone which
we're getting rid of I know but still there you know I don't know how we could say near the historic district or in the or you know the you know adjacent to adjacent to the historic district I can change
that do people know do they yeah do they know buffer zone has been uh I know really strange thing to deal with know well some do some don't we're gonna learn a lot from the survey too about what people know I don't know yeah yeah
that would be good I don't know I'm not sure okay but that's been the problem with the buffer zone yeah yeah okay I'll say adjacent to Historic District and I'll say I'll put I don't know yeah um we
have my property is um contributing non-contributing I don't know there you go or not applicable um how familiar are you with the guidelines how often have you reviewed the guidelines before starting a project and then I think the question that got cut off is um how easy
was it to understand the guidelines and so it's very clear or difficult to understand what as and then we have kind of areas where people can talk about the guidelines then we have on the approval process have you applied for a certificate um then oh I'm sorry the
second question that got cut off is um how often do you refer to the guidelines while before starting a project um which so that'll be interesting and then how would you rate your experience with the approval
process uh what challenges have you faced uh with the process suggestions for improvement um changes or improvements you suggest for the improval process and commission interaction any additional comments um
and that's it short and sweet the only comment I would have is whether we should put the questions about um have you submitted where's the question have you applied for
certificate of approval put that closer to the front was like and then maybe put na on some of the questions for people who have not not applied or not interest you know have no plans to apply good idea you know why would I look
at I'm saying everybody should right but why would I necessarily look at the design guidelines if I have not planned to approve not to plan to submit something I can try to program that but I don't know if I'm going to be able to figure out how to do that oh because of
the yeah formatting of the yeah because I don't know if I program it so that the following questions then they don't have to do oh I don't know that you need to do that I would just change the order okay so you want me to move and then add na to the ones that follow it that would
not be applicable for people who never I applied oh I get it I get it um okay so you think we should move it up to are you planning to apply no so should it be the first question so don't need the rest of the questions that should we you
don't need the rest of if they're saying know then they may not you know they don't necessarily need go through the whole thing so you thinking we actually put this whole section first about the guy we talked about the the approval process first and then about the guidelines I I wouldn't because that's really secondary to our main goal here
which was the feedback on the design guidelines um but what I what if I keep it here but I put in here like put the nas in for people who've never done it okay I mean that would be better yeah
yeah yeah na yeah good idea okay cool any other comments great okay all right so um so we will work on getting that out this week I'm doing um the student volunteer
thing and then I'll also put this in the mayor's email so we might have a couple couple of lines um okay so we talked about planning board okay CLG Grant um updates on the
Okay Lori Thompson um sent out the first first dra full draft uh last Sun last Sunday evening I believe okay to sue in myself for review so I sent back some comments uh the
other day Sue I believe is out of town so she has not commented yet on that on that actual guidelines um she she did make a com some comment to uh I think about some additional uh
Consultants to contact if we need it um but uh Mike so we're the um since the date of submission to April 11th Lori says we're F you know there's plenty of time
we have enough time to to uh work on this so she'll make any revisions if she hears anything more back from Sue and then do another draft and we should be pretty pretty close my my comment a couple of
comments was in the um application in the in the uh project criteria very much stressed that any photography is only from the street yep we don't want any problems with that going forward and
also uh with certain Farmhouse properties that the the actual structure is not really visible from the street M how do you do an intensive architectural level survey yeah and there's some other options that
uh I think Brendan and and Sue and myself we saw that that one um web webinar where there was some other Alternatives like you do a theme okay possibly like the farm farmlands in
Cranberry so maybe there might be some properties where you can't get really a picture of the of the house so to speak or it's from a distance but you have the history of the farms and maybe there might be some interconnection a Google
map from above because like every structure in the world is is from above on a Google map well we're again it's street view is what we're but maybe aerial view would be like an alterntive I don't you want a drone flying over right well Google is already
doing it like it's a satellite well I mean you see the roof I mean you don't see that yeah the house you know only in cities where they actually drive down the streets and they get a 3D yeah composite of the building's elevation and they add that to the Google Earth
and then you can right see the buildings but they can't do that if they're just driving down streets so so this might this just opens it up for the consultant when they go to bid yeah we can do these properties like we normally would do but
there there might be a subset that we need to do this way we'll get information you know because I I it I would go in doubtful that the property owner is going to say yeah come on the property and take pictures I don't but we would still send them letters to request sending letters and we can have
that open but just a good chance that they're going to say no yeah on some of them I can you know just with how they look um no TR trp passing you know this the keep outs
Tres we know there's a farmhouse there but anyway so those are my two comments so lauel try to incorporate that um we're still um I want when Sue gets back I just want to ask ask her opinion there's two properties that I
included uh 37 and 39 Station Road the two Ranch houses but they were not on the list that Brendan provided for the extending the historic district and you and I talked about that last week our
last meeting after the meeting um so I could take those off as they don't quite match up but they were in they were sort of in the buffer buffer zone before but they were not those property owners were not notified
that they would well they're not included in the expanded historic district so which should we be even surveying their property yeah so so we might get down to like 87 properties but that's flexible it's
not cool that's where we are with that so we're on target nice fantastic um okay so I think we've covered everything about the Amendments um um well before we leave the section
so on the timeline timeline yes let's talk about the timeline thank you okay um so this it says March uh is does that mean leading up to this meeting or during this meeting or following this meeting what does it mean to be I think we're starting to well we have a little
slippage now because like the um the planning board thing now is um well actually it is going to be April which is what we were no May it's going to be May it's going to be May one the planning board vote
um but um let's see the sentences doing the two to three sentences on the property that we we don't have I mean I'm thinking Brendan if you're are you are you are you is this something you'd be able to
do or do you need or something we not at all I've only been for a year I don't really know how to describe the buildings well enough no I think that maybe what we could do could you help us coordinate it like maybe what we do is divide it up amongst our our committee
where we each like a little description so these are the properties that are going to be added to the historic district yeah we need to create like a couple of of uh lines on each house okay so those most of those were
in this included in the last survey yes there's descriptions right there those don't need to be written about I think the only ones we need to write about are the 22 that were not included in and only to the extent that if you look at the original District nomination from
the 70s a little bit was written about each house not anywhere near multiple Pages worth of surveys like we can do now but in terms of describing what structures are in the district I think that's the standard that we are aspiring
to um for those 22 on the SE so those are added to the CLG Grant application yeah but we need to have something to kind of keep us off keep us right in in that spreadsheet that I created yes whenever it was like a
1965 or 1960 ranch house yes I mean what else are you going to say about it that might be sufficient that's what's there and then it'll get surveyed and it'll be there might be some it might have you know on that particular area it probably will uh because that used to be an apple
orchard at one time so it was a part of this farm that was an apple orchard um uh I I agree that might be sufficient because all it just needs to need to be list for the for the ordinance purpose that's
right it's not block a master plan Amendment it needs to be done technically it doesn't have to be done until like I guess like the summer but we might as well get started on it and that's why I put it in March because it was something we could start working
on and if it's something um again I I I don't have a problem like driving by and writing a couple sent about like you know any like you know basic architectural elements that I see on the house and so if you would if you
have it are able to put a list together of the ones that we need to do I think we could just divide like we did with the HL I think if you look at the spreadsheet yeah on the description it's pretty because there was a couple on Station Road that were they look totally different because they were totally
revamped like into a two-story Colonial at a certain time frame in the 80s or 90s or something yeah one was a um it was like a prefab tw- story that was I don't know if there's a I don't think there was a house there before but it
just was created it was a prefab okay what else you going to say about it I that's would you be able to send the spreadsheet to Brandon and brand we have the spreadsheet that was the one that I sent like hard copies I have hard copy of it um I don't have it I know you don't like
hard copies but that's what it's a huge file okay I can't with the pictures I couldn't I couldn't load it yeah okay onto the one I tried to zip file it just um so we need to sync it up with
the the master plan I have to find my spreadsheet it's in here somewhere um and and and with the the houses and see which ones if we have any gaps and then yeah did I give you
would to help again I can create a a document that lists all of the properties and then has a space to fill in a description of them okay all right I mean I can send it without the picture if I remove the picture colum do you do
you have photos of some of those 22 properties already yes I can do that separately also okay well that's that's actually a really solid start because then Jen you might not have to drive anywhere I mean I just look at the picture you and describe but what I see what you see descri
yeah yeah okay I love it okay cool we got a plan um all right great so any other comments on this um big initiative we're doing here okay all right let's move on to the Hamlet um for this goal this is by the
way I organized our agenda just so you guys know but based on our goals for the year so each bullet here is one of our goals we have six b six goals being we have the uh historic district we have the Hamlet we have the historic sites outside the district we have Revolution
New Jersey public Outreach um and and yeah one two three and the Camden Amboy train depot those are our six goals for the year um so with the Hamlet uh Sue and I met and we're
getting closer to being able to resubmit our application we have a strategy on how to go about it um I think we know we have plenty of content um so we just need to uh put it
together and we're gonna I'm going to be making a draft Sue is going to be working on revising it we have one open item which we're trying to figure out which is how we are going to geographically Define the district um because I started we started getting a little stuck based on do we do it based
on Old roads back in the day or the New Roads that we have now now or do we do it based on tax Lots but then if we're including the Monroe properties you know how do we go or do we decide that it's the depot is the center and we go 500
feet in all directions of the depot so we're trying to find out how other people do it um how they geographically design it because when we did our local designation it was all based on tax Lots which is not what the state wants for this so so and that gets back to do
survey on a theme or an area yeah yeah we're so the Hamlet and it does cross over the two townships we're keeping it our we we're going to focus on the the whole railroad thing we think that's going to be the best way to kind of keep it really singular singular focused we'
got a lot of great language from when heightstown applied for their sleepers um to be a little marker um so we have some great language about the importance of the railroad to New Jersey in the history of New Jersey um so I think
we're going to kind of do more of that but we are going to include like some of the Agricultural elements um but yeah and and do we need anything from Monroe in this exercise not yet we think we can just take a picture of each house and
put some descriptions okay along um for now and then if we find that we you know if we get Pro you know progress from the state then we can start you know working with them okay but it do does make sense to try to get Buy in right now I I don't
think they're going to object so um okay so that's that um identifying designating sites outside um the historic district before we T talk about the 1860 Farmhouse um Dave do you have any other comments about what you've been working on no okay all right so the
1860 Farmhouse so um in your packet or actually in the email that I sent to you all um you received um an engineering two engineering reports of the pnik family site um as well as plans for a a
replica um that they're um interested in building um over that site um and then there was a some sort of a postcard that was used um when the home was going for auction um so there's going to be a
working session it's going to be on April 24th um I sent you guys all like a little calendar thing so it shows up in your calendars um everyone from HPC is in April 28 oh I'm sorry April 28th pardon
me um April 28th so everyone from HBC is welcome to come um but it is not necessary if we decide instead we could send one representative or two um to
attend so um maybe we first take a look like I'm be okay so you won't be able to who's the working session with it's with uh Township committee and HPC and the um
agenda is that the um the family will present their plans and then Township committee is going to be asking questions and then we will be asking questions and that is the extent of what
I I from the agenda um however we are to advise Township committee um I believe that we should try to compile our thoughts all in one place for the most
impact um like seriously like each of you writing notes down and sending it to me so I can put it together and we make sure we all agree and a key person I think because of the history is Bobby Marlo yeah she was involved in that
whole sale and then the stipulations in in the in the deed yes as far as preserving that farm house I know it's such a shame she's not she can make it tonight because so she would be a key key component of that whole thing yeah and the whole and the whole thing again
again I'll just not to go in great detail but the township does have a prop Property Maintenance ordinance yes and this is a clear example house is just being it's being destroyed by neglect yes and PE
different several owners have owned it already knowing that going into it yeah and nothing's being done yeah so um what I was hoping we could do um in our time here today is to take
some quick notes that we can maybe at least send forward to the property owners um in you know what we want to know when they come and present during this working session based on these
um engineering reports that we looked at and based on the plans for the replica um I wrote one quick question which is where are the plans for restoration why is there only plans
for a replica yeah there's only a reference that it could cost cons considerably more in one report the other report said didn't say that right but it's it's just vague yeah very what is the what were we talking about difference yeah there are no existing
plans of the existing building either yeah it seems like it was it would be nice if we had plans of the existing to compare plans of the existing building okay I mean if the I mean the big big change to sort of to modernize
it you're adding an attached garage yeah which can be done to the existing building and it's on the it's on the opposite the street side so you wouldn't even see it from the street yeah but even that it's like irating a garage with a single double
wide door which is not exactly a historic yeah approach to things yeah that could be modified I know you could do two single wordss I yeah it's not but the whole question is whether replacing it in kind if it's really in kind it
just seems like I don't think it is there was yeah okay I guess the question so is the question like I don't want to sound like um I don't want to insult whoever the architect is who did those plans but
like um RJM R how did you get to this plan like um where did this idea of a replica come forward and um why a replica if it even is a
replica well it looks why a replica why are they calling it a replica I guess that's the first question because the design looks pretty close to what's there I mean they are trying to replicate it um why are they trying to replicate it and then how did they what
elements how do they get to the their the this these plants what was their thinking Behind These plants I guess if if their goal is replicating so I know that the Secretary of the Interior has all of these standards for
rehabilitation or restoration right and this would probably be more along the guidelines for for restoration according to Secretary of interior right I think um but it's not because they're demolishing the well so I guess one of
my questions would be in what ways do uh are their plans different than what the Secretary of the Interior recommends for restoring a building like that I'd like to know how it would be the same or different
see just taking this down okay um and you may have to I would think you would have to factor in if it was they're going to demol you know building a replica so demolishing the original structure so the cost of
that should be included not ignored CU see you're talking there's some reference to it's going to cost more for us to renovate or restore the existing Farmhouse yeah I think versus building a new one if you ignore the demolition
costs yeah I know what they are but that's something also were demo costs considered and we demolition costs um consider I guess I'd just like to understand where are their financials around this decision because I haven't seen anything although B sure it matters
the deed restriction it shouldn't even matter right I that's clear it specifically says financial hardship shall not constitute an exceptional circumstance so I don't know that maybe we don't need to ask that yeah yeah because it's not part of it um the other concern is just from a sustainability
perspective you know we this tear down it's going to go into land so what is your sustainability plan are they going to save certain elements of the exterior re element going to be reused
a lot of termite damage I got to read the reports again because is it just the termite damage just to the first floor like it's just the first floor of the home because lot of homes tell them how to do
it but you know you could jack you could jack the house up you reframe the first floor you could drop it back down build a new foundation wall whatever you have to do it's not that yeah I mean I've been starting I don't know what the condition of the w I don't know I just I
have to read the I've been starting to collect to like a number of examples of plenty of places that have been rehabilitated that have structural problems um so I'm not 100% I'm trying to understand too like why a structural
problem is the reason that the home has to be demolished because that's not the case always I mean there are plenty of homes even new homes have structural problems that get res I literally just fixed a um a structural problem in my
mother's ski house like you know concrete flowfill so I me also could be based upon what they want to do with the Interior Space yeah to rework that
walls and things like that to rework that space affects the existing structure so the rational is to tear it down and just start from from scratch what are their plans for the Interior Space well they sort of said I think
it's a little bit different what what did it say I didn't see that said something referencing like the the the way the interior work is much different than what yes exists right now oh in the new um somewhere in the right
up when I was reading through it so the floor plan is evid obviously a modern modern uh foot floor plan which is different basically it's it's the personal preference is basically why
they want to demolish the house because they want to have an open floor plan in their interior well it's not quite open but it's it's I it sounds like it's different than what exists now okay so maybe we could ask them what are their plans for the interior of the of the
building and how they how those plans affect the E the structure as a whole structure skeleton of it yes skeleton yeah I think it's just it just seems like what's missing it's like
where are your Rehabilitation plans I think they so there was not that it it doesn't seem like they've gone down any path toward rehabilitating uh based on them just sending plans for a bill a new bill
I guess the question is like what would it look like if they were to rehabilitate it to make it the way they want it to look or well I I want to elaborate on my question about how it would uh align with the Secretary
of the Interior standards for uh restoration there are also Secretary of the Interior standards for um what is the uh uh reconstruction and so they kind of have two path forward they're either
reconstructing or they're restoring and so I I guess I want just want to elaborate on that question that if they're going the Reconstruction path then it's a different set of Standards from the Secretary of the Interior that I'd want to know how is their plan aligned with that or not
yeah it also gets down to what you mentioned before Brendon about the deed restriction and what what's required I mean is that what that Township committee and HPC have do you just that goes out the window what was agreed upon
years ago or as you move forward I mean that that's the determining Factor right there if it's you have to stick to that deed restriction then the only path is restoration yeah how are you I guess the question would be I don't want it sounds
kind of mean I'll make it nicer how are you honoring the deed restriction you honoring or respecting the deed restri rtion I don't know I that's a really condescending question um I'm reading the DED
restriction and it uh the extensive structural damage to uh is considered an exceptional circumstance so if this is exceptional structural damage even if it's because the township
wasn't enforcing its uh maintenance uh code you know the it's what the deed it's whatever the deed restrictions I agree um there maybe I could just say what has been your approach to this home with regards to the deed restriction that you knew was in place when you purchase the
it's really demolition by neglect is what it's heading down but also through multiple owners right it's not it's not just the current owner it's the two owners before do we know when the owners the the family that owns it they they purchased it a while three sales since
the deed restriction was put in place um 2007 and then 2020 and then most recently in 2022 oh okay 2022 okay so three years they've had the home and not done
anything with it okay um that's my question is like why is it that since you've had it that nothing's happened either to it money
maybe um we have I just um some note here about Mike Mark bowy sent a letter to HPC at the end of last year about the project um wonder if we have that available we don't have that available to read tonight or whatever yeah we had
we received it remember um we can I can find it we can and we can get it you guys can all have it because yeah we were all copied on it um okay um I had another question which
for all of you guys actually um where is the history of the house like do we have a deed did we deed it back um do we have that all written down anywhere we have to but some or chips does probably yes
chips because they're the ones that pushed for the deed deed restriction so I think it would be good to markowski would let her we need to know that I think maybe what we could do is it's a followup maybe if you guys agree we should reach out to chips and
figure out what the historical um significance is because I feel like if we're advising Township committee um we need to make sure we reiterate the historical significance of it let's find Mark Row's letter okay but also like who
are the families that owned that house in the years past was it the pine family was it the it was the dancer family right um who was before them you know the D well clarify dancers never owned it they rented or leased the property for many
many years I think it was I think it was Barkley I'm not certain okay I think it was Barkley Barkley family owned it and then during when it was designated Farmland preservation then it was sold to somebody I think Corporation in Florida
and they had it for that from 2007 to 2020 do we did nothing to it do we know why um why was was the someone asked me this why was this house sold by the the to it was went into auction
right yeah it was a real estate auction because the town purchased the property to preserve the farmland and then sells the property with the Restriction that uh preserves it for farming use and so it's kind of when when it's acquired by
the town um it's only a temporary thing in order to impose the deed restriction okay and then sell it on with that deed restriction and so the mistake that so really what what what is happening is like these are the wishes of the town when the deed restriction was put on to
preserve the house with with the input from from chips okay but then they made the mistake of selling it to someone who had no interest in preserving it it sounded like but that was all part of the property history when you're selling
it that's looking at the yeah they would say that okay by the way this is what the deed okay so and I do think one thing that's going to come up in this meeting and I mean I guess it's not really I don't know if it's really us to
to bring up but like why wasn't it ever enforced you know by the town you know I mean it's in some ways it's water under the bridge at this point but I think I don't know whose job it is in the town like I don't think our TC is supposed to be driving around looking for properties
that are poorly maintained I don't so far off the road who enforces that part of the code that that's been very nebulous it's it could be a a resident and puts a puts
a uh complaint complaint in self-reporting I my understanding at the time it could be Department of Public Works as they're driving around and they see a house is in disrepair is so far off the road and but there's other houses that falling down there's other
houses that are obvious that yeah could be under that consideration that's for sure the point is the ordinance I don't recall it ever being enforced it was a lot of time spent on it and and I I know in this meeting in the five years I've
been here we've talked about this house being not um maintained but nothing is ever done so I I know but I think that in we can expect probably in this meeting or at some point it's going to
be a question it's gonna come up again why why was this allowed to be neglected you know for so long and but now it's our chance to to you know yeah it's hard to enforce because to be honest the the TC does not want to
take legal action yeah if they don't have to that's what I thought too yeah um okay so I am G to write down I'm GNA follow up with Bob with chips on for the history because I think that we need that information um I'm going to try to
consolidate our questions into like maybe three um one of them is definitely the sustainability plan um Brendan I think your question about the um Secretary of the Interior is really
important um I'd also ask if survey of the existing yeah survey has been done you know existing conditions drawings yeah I agree um
okay of existing home yeah that's I think that's also that's that's the that's the Miss right you're jumping right into building something new but you haven't really even surveyed what you have well do they consider the engineering report that's the survey
yeah survey that's what I thought was yeah but they there are no plans there no elevations I mean it should be it should be documented frankly it should be documented even if they decide to demolish it it should be for historic
purposes it should be documented yes okay all right good all right perfect and then you guys um between I guess do we have another meeting between now and the next one we do um we have one more meeting before
this meeting so let's try to get all of our feedback together um like send me notes and so I can try of compile it um because again we are the ones that we're going to be recommend you know advising Town committee on on this April 15th April 15th ouring yeah yeah that's
right and actually I won't be there on that so it'll be Sue probably I guess we'll be there um but yeah okay cool uh next we have on our list of the agenda oh yes um so not guy will be I should be able to go yeah I'll be there
I'm pretty sure Sue will be there Dave and Amy what you not it's spring break for my girls that week but I I should be here wow I thought our spring break was late April 28th no you said 15 that's our that's our meeting
okay this working session that's why I'm not going to 28 okay are you guys in favor of all being there for this or would you like or would you not rather just have us send one person is it here in this room around it's actually G to be at the library okay they just decided oh okay
cool okay plenty of space there yeah at the library in my backyard yeah you can walk okay all right perfect perfect um good okay so next item on our
agenda is Revolution New Jersey you're tentative okay all right perfect um Revolution New Jersey um Bobby is not here have you guys heard anything I've heard nothing either okay we'll skip over that this time public
Outreach um the big update is that um the student flyer is getting posted on the website within the next day or so and then we're going to promote it out on the um mayor's email um one small topography thing on
the flyer in the Y join section there's a bullet point before the word making on the thir l no okay all right we'll fix that I didn't see it on the website yet so I'll fix it and send it toor okay for
the gentlemen okay um okay I have one other item on the Library program to ask you guys so um my question for all of you is and I don't know if maybe Bobby would REM Dave or if you guys remember
Dave or Bobby I guess how long is our library book donation thing been going on how long have we been doing it and like what's been the intent what's the what's the purpose of it I would say they had the pandemic in so that's five years right
there I would say at least 10 years okay the intent was each year HPC would purchase one or two books and it would stay in the office of in Township Hall so the
discussion was how value what's how valuable is that access them yeah so why not create a shelf in the library and transfer those books over to the library so the general public has that resource available okay
okay so that was the rationale for that okay so that was about 10 years ago okay so then after that we still have recommended books we discuss which one's to purchase from our budget and we
donate to or send it over to the library so um the update I have is that we actually this past year we donated two books um one book was um I forget but it was a architecture book and the
other book was um a children's book um about how Jackie saved Grand Central Station it's one of two books for children in the whole world that are about historic preservation and I actually receiv received the book back from the library plus
a three-page list of their criteria for donations um and so what I'm taking away from this is that the library definitely
has their mission um and that they may not understand the intent of what of what we are doing um and so I wanted to talk with you and see because we have a couple I've reflected on this a lot like we have a couple paths we can take we
could one we could meet with the library and kind of explain to them what we're about what HPC is about and how we do public Outreach and why we would have a children's book about historic preservation and trying to get our children you know interested in historic
preservation um and providing resources to homeowners um another option would be to just not do this anymore because the library is very they have their focus you know our our Shelf kind of got
mushed with um books about cranberry history and and you know other things and they sort of I think they have their own Vision I think it's a good thing to yeah explain to because we have a new direct we've had a new director exactly
so to explain the focus because also with donating those books to the library yeah we didn't want them to be considered like other General circulation books where well if nobody's looking at them we're going to get rid of them over time yeah we want it this is part of our history we want to those
resources we want to maintain them yes how much shelf shelf space are we actually talking about well that's the thing that's why I'm like I'm a little bit and I think that talking to the new director so she's on the same page is
probably my opinion the best way to go okay so I had I agree but I had one other crazy idea which is what if we stopped doing books and what if we instead found something more modern
like use the money to give to put stuff on our website like resources for homeowners on our websites like webinars like are there webinars we could purchase to educate homeowners on well historic preservation or like the only C architecture we only caveat with that
from my experience so who's going to update the links to the to these web website resources yeah cuz how do we know when they when they they no longer work so that's like a full-time I I
think first step is to meet with the library director and say you know we've been doing this for a while now and we have a new library we have new library you know we don't think it doesn't take a lot of space but you know tell us tell us a little bit more about what your
guidelines are all about yeah they have they have plenty of wall space there for you yeah there's plenty of empty stack space so it's not a question of having room or not yeah but you know then if they don't really
want us to be donating books to them anymore then I think we go in we say ask for them back and we put them somewhere else that you know maybe there's a place in town hall that we can put a historic book you know historic reservation book collection and let everybody know that
it's here yeah they said it was um this book was not accepted because they thought there was not going to be Community interest and contemporary significance and that it's not doesn't have local historical significance or local
authors well so it doesn't fit their criteria they want in chapter 21 one of our responsibilities is um is advising uh carry out such other advisory educational and informational functions as will promote historic preservation in
the township so we're supposed to drum up interest in this stuff that's one that's part of our charge it's part of our charge um and you know I've I've TR as I've tried to learn more about architecture and Architectural history in the last year uh the Cranberry Public
Library does not have as large of a collection in that area as for example the princeon public library it's not like there is already a sufficient number of books that um that someone's interest could be satisfied so I think
we still have this charge and I think this is a good way to help make that those resources available to homeowners who want to learn more about how to do things in their home and and want to learn more about the the value of this and so I I wouldn't give up yet okay so you don't you don't think like getting a
subscription to like historic architecture magazine or something would be a better like digital you know for people to access or something I'm just trying to think outside the box know now the lot I never heard of this the books that we don't HBC donates has to meet
certain criteria that's something totally new to me they obviously I mean they're they're running this library but I I don't think they know what our goals are and what we're trying to do okay all right I will meet with her and um she did also say though that
if if um this is this is nice um if an HBC um has a member interested in um speaking on historic architecture in Cranberry or leading an FAQ for homeowners on historic homes they would love to facilitate such a
program well that's good so that might be something we could do this year or next year out that to the goals is maybe we have we add a speaker series um at the library where you know we you know we've had last
year we had we had a discussion about our reviewing our survey that we did the prior year yeah so we've done a couple of things yeah history I mean libr just had one from the Presbyterian Church on the cemetery yeah yeah I know they do
have a lot and like Mark Browski had his presentation you know um so that's all part of it it's not you know yeah yeah okay all right great feedback thank you um okay next is Camden inoy train depot and the where we are with that
right now is that we're still waiting to find out what the owner is doing with the environmental stuff because we can't really reach out to them about the the um the depot until they've gotten their
like plans is is what Sue and I were talking about um I reached out and tried to find out where they were with the environmental stuff and nothing has happened they haven't submitted anything um so they did the demolition
of the site but they haven't put forward any plans and apparently they they need to get a variance to be able to fill in that pond that they have um you know I don't know if it's a good
idea for us to start talking to him about renovating that Depot yet this is another example keep an eye on yes if you don't keep maintain it it's GNA start falling down I know I mean case in point what we're dealing
with in April right um maybe we do is start working on a plan to re-engage re-engage them at least to kind of just check in and about their their things we have their contact information so yeah we have it somewhere right I'm sure we
do yeah we should reach out and just say we know you're going through some stuff yeah approvals blah blah blah but we're just curious where you are on this okay let me talk to you with Sue about it when we when we work on the Hamlet we're going to have another call about the Hamlet application um and I'll I'll
discuss it with Su and maybe we can try to figure out how to how to reach out just did a little friendly High um okay um other business commission training does anyone have any training updates I listened to one of the videos
that was pretty interesting about substitute materials oh yeah that one was good that was really good yeah it's a good one um okay new homeowner letters any yeah I sent one to 162 Main
Street uh minutes I made a few minor comments and it did um I did it online and it did take they're in Red so just I did it this afternoon so it's you usually what I do
is where I'm quoted something I just clarify that little so I'll give this to you this is can you do me a favor and strike this line um chair St Meer St the criteria for the homes and the buffer zone that are going to be historic not change just
because when we were having a discussion today um I think it's a little it's just it's not captur it's capturing the spirit but I just don't want it to get interpreted literally um okay okay does anyone have any other comments
on the minutes so I'll make a motion to approve the minutes as Modified by second input all right great okay um okay um roll call M sumeer
yes Mr Guyer yes Mr H yes and then just Mr Sabo yes okay those are Robin's last minutes public comment okay discussion any other things
I just have one uh just as a mention I have started a little bit of research on the door replacement I don't know where the township sits with that but I have been looking I mean there are doors like that that are available commercially
they're pretty easy to get a hold of like you know in either wood that's finished some way or painted but they can be replaced in kind if that's the direction seems to be that's what I'm just concerned that you know
they'll replace them with metal with what we have church so maybe send uh send it over to Mrs Miss marabell like hey some door research it seems to be
that the biggest issue on safety is if they have an emergency opening it up so if you go I think to there's Hardware available now that sure when they were put in I don't know about retrofitting I mean okay but there are as they're
called astles that are automated astrial that you could push on either door it'll open up and when it closes it'll close correctly okay so it's not that isn't shouldn't be an issue okay
but that's the issue with these doors but I think they could potentially be retrofitted with the with the avable Asal but that I don't know for sure but anyway it's good idea to send it over you know to her a step in the right
direction s it to Gina let her F yeah there you go I think that's perfect um okay okay great all right so I'm gonna make a motion to adjourn I guess I'll second okay all in favor
hi thanks everyone thank you thank you we're early tonight pages what