All right. So, we're going to get started. This HPC meeting is being held on November 16th, 2025 at 7 p.m. Statement of adequate notice pursuant to the Sunshine Law. Adquate notice in accordance with the Open Public Meetings Act, NJSA 104-6 was provided on January
28th, 2025 of this meeting's date, time, and place. The agenda was mailed to the Cranberry Press and Home News Tribune, posted on the Township Bulletin board, and mailed to those requesting personal notice, and filed with the municipal clerk. Um, roll call and volunteer hours, please. Miss Sutmire.
Uh, here >> go 16. >> Miss Ryan >> here. 12. >> Mr. here four. >> Mr. Hull
>> here. >> Miss Marlo >> here too. >> And Mr. Zap >> here too. >> And Miss Valerini is out. Mr. Christopher is not here yet. And Miss Yan is here. All right. We have a quarum.
>> Okay. So, welcome. Um, I think what we'll do is we'll begin with applications, then go into old business, and then we'll hit some new business. We do have some new business, which I'll add in. And Mr. Christopher, I think he's not able to join. >> Okay.
>> No, I gave him I actually I gave him the night off actually, and he has somewhere else to be, so >> I promise. Yeah, I gave It's It's the holidays. It's a busy time. I I I I gave him off, so it's all good.
Um, okay. So, new business. >> Um, okay. So, let's start with our application on 99 uh 265 >> 99 North Main Street. >> Hi, sir. Welcome. >> Hi. Can you just hit hit the right
button on the microphone? >> Yeah, perfect. Thank you. So I guess um I don't know if you've ever been before HBC before. Oh, you have? Okay, good. So you want you know the process just to take us through your project >> and uh we'll discuss.
>> Okay. So you know we are installing solar panels solar panels. So we have like two structure. One is the whole structure is the main house and there's a garage on the side which is set back. from the front. That's where the
rooftops are going to be. So it's around like 24 panels. So So these are the low profile max black. So it's not really showing up.
So, just so I understand, so you're looking you have >> Yeah, I know exactly. Your house is on the corner and um you have the main house and it's kind of attached with this sort of over thing. >> It's not the garage. >> The roof is not the two structures are
not attached. There's a kind of >> like an over thing. Y >> and there's a king roof galvanized roof which is covers like maybe more than half It's the garage.
>> And then you're looking to do the solar panels on just the garage. >> Just the garage. >> And this is facing the street. >> There's there's like three as they call it. So there's like metal roof and there's on the
roofing the house. >> So where the metal is >> where the metal is the metal. So, you're looking to do it on the metal part and then on the garage roof >> facing the street >> and on the back. Okay.
>> Um, so did you explore at all putting it in the back of the house for the design? >> The back of the house is lower. >> Okay. a small section. Um, in the satellite image that we have
here, I see um the I see a main I see is this the satellite image of the whole >> on the plans she's looking at >> the plans right here. Is this the garage view facing the side? Okay. And so the
white part is actually the metal part. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> And Jennifer is next. >> Yeah. The next page on the house as well, >> Jennifer, the next page shows how
they're laying out on the front of the garage, the back of the garage, and this the side metal room. And the next the following page as well shows the building with the panels. >> Yes, please.
>> Um the satellite view shows it, but also the one of the photographs in the front show it a couple significant trees that are shading the roof right now. Yeah, we'll be trimming them because the you know the
>> far you know the orientation of the sun as it comes you know >> some of them is like in the front you know the big shadow >> but you're not taking the trees down the
question because what I was going to say is that the trees and the shrubs around the perimeter of your property make that garage pretty much invisible. >> Yeah. So if they were going to be cut down to take the shade away from the roof then
>> there was >> Did you do you have with you >> did you bring with you anything more recent that shows what >> I mean I don't have a most recent I mean right now it will be all like leaves gone. So
you want to see the roof anyway doesn't matter. >> No no the is not bird is >> okay. So there there was one which was there on the right side of your entire so that was but we have planned another
one over there which is going to be at least the height of the the what do you call the the wires the electrical wire because the other trees which were taken down were on the ber side which the PSG has hacked them out because they were going out and they were dead
>> and they're going to fall down anyway because the you know got a guy He says he's good. I will put them down because they want to fall down because the basic guy will just hack it. So they don't want to go in the water on the lines. >> So they have to hide.
>> So they put it on and we took one tree down in front but we replaced it with American green tree which is going to be 20 ft high. So it's not going to be towering above the house structure but it will also not go over the lines. So they
don't have a chance to take it down. >> So you're limited by the height of the power lines. >> Yeah. Because they come and they take it down because you know they have to you know they don't you know there's no option. >> I mean luckily they have not touched the big tree. There's a big which is very so
but we trimmed it down because you know recently I mean few branches fell down and if you don't take it down actually got sued by one branch on the car and >> you didn't notice you're going to notice
you know I mean we have to print some we have to >> I have a question on the front elevation of the the roof. So, is there a reason why it's not all even? It has this little offset which looks
>> odd. I think that's a requirement from also you know the UCG also I think they require some offsets from the sides you know that's what I was told they cannot cover the whole thing because they need
some offsets to >> okay that's what I was told >> okay that's what they call the tire pathway I guess >> yeah something like that >> they cannot come there because somebody has to walk something has to happen
and make a hole to it. >> Bobby, do you remember >> Bobby? Do you remember this whole garage being demolished in 2011 and being replaced with the current garage? >> What was >> I think it has to be before that.
>> It says in the survey thing 2011. >> I think it is before that. I've seen um minutes from five years before where there was actually a fight between previous owners, right? >> Um previous owners and the township in
terms of uh that that corrugated metal roof was not built to what the application said. >> I mean I can give you the exact details. Yeah, I'm curious to understand. >> It was done. It was done at a time when the um
it used to be um if the the homeowner wanted to do something commission didn't want them to do, it went before the temperature committee. They were changing over to the temperature committee to the planning board. It was right at that time and the
homeowner had the choice. Do they want the temp committee to review it? And they decided that they wanted the tension committee to approve it. Now obviously committee has taken their
board subject to the approval or disapproval of the community. So they decided they would have and and they they went ahead. Okay. despite each pack. >> Oh god, that sounds familiar.
>> Um, so >> I know you're like, "Not me." >> What was it that they wanted? Why did they demolish the Was it old and dilapidated or they didn't like it? But mostly they were putting upstairs which they didn't have before.
But the main thing was um that the breezeway connected the house to the garage was a little bit more involved >> in terms of being because it was a metal roof or because >> it was just it wasn't it wasn't just a
it was really much more of a structure connected two together. >> Okay. This is only a parcola. There's no structure actually. >> You can you go in there? >> No, you have to walk out of the house and then walk and then go to the
>> That's That's true. It's just an open air >> open air pergola. So, and pergola is like all this beams and then the half of it is covered with the corative roof which which buds with the garage. So,
it's not even so connected to that. So if you look from the top of the main house, you can look at the pat. >> Really? >> Yeah. So >> yeah, because it looks Yeah. From the picture, it looks like, you know, you don't know if it can go in there or if it was Yeah. It just So it's a breezeway cover,
>> but the issue was around the apartment being built above the garage. >> Okay. So what was HPAC's intent on how it was supposed to look? I guess back then >> it was just much less of a of a structure.
We wanted something. >> So it sounds like it was about the connector as opposed to the actual garage structure. >> Exactly. >> Okay. >> Yes. The garage was except for the fact that
it was it was the connector. >> Huh. That's funny because what they put in sounds like it was kind of benal and yeah it caused a big >> So um did we um when we when we approved the um or when it got approved by when
they approved it um the homeowner was supposed to make the addition look different from the rest of the house, right? um by the addition >> the garage because they switched it because if they demolished it then they built the new garage it now it's an
addition addition pretty much >> I don't think but it's not attached so it's not >> okay so it's not >> but but it became sort of more visibly >> attached >> I'm curious just because what I'm
thinking about is like I just want to make sure we're honoring like Why? >> So, this is in between the house, right? There's a gym tennis table and there's, you know, there's door to the bathroom, but there's a big patio in >> Yeah,
that's cool. Okay. And then above it is >> So, yeah, you cannot go from the main house to this house without walking out, walking on this. Got it. Um, like according to our design guidelines, if you build like a even like a a freestanding like a separate
structure, this is considered like a separate structure. It's not supposed to like um fold into the design. It's not supposed to look like it's old like the rest of the house, right? >> That's right.
>> But it should be compatible. >> It should be compatible. But it was supposed to be compatible. So that's why when you see it, you can see you can kind of tell that it's not >> incompatible. The same color just
>> Okay. >> Um so do we have any more questions about the solar panel project? the so the arrangement on it as it is in the plans R two
>> um on the plans it's got panels with two gaps to accommodate pipes >> but in the 3D rendering it's showing a different layout of that this one this layout does not match that's in the plan
what is actually >> yeah I don't know how this rendering is done to be honest you know but there are types from the last >> could it be like a limitation do you think of their software
>> yeah I think their software doesn't look like the actual structure to be honest it's just a rendering of >> how it's supposed to look from the Yeah. >> Um did you explore one thing that I know we we kind of try to encourage you know
around is you know obviously trying not to have stuff facing the street like this. Um, like what a lot of people in historic homes do is they take the solar panels, they put them in the backyard and they use them like you know for like
a patio cover or just you know within the green space instead of facing >> talking about ground inspiration. >> Yeah, exactly. >> I'm sorry. I don't understand if I put all this on the ground. >> Yeah. I mean the bathroom.
>> Okay. >> The problem is that you would have also on the ground. So you have more coverage from the trees. You can cover it as opposed to the sun orientation coming in from the top. You know when
it's on the roof it will have more sun exposure as it was on the top. The ground is all you know by you know vegetation and trees around. >> Yeah. >> If you got rid of the trees it will be much more visible.
>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's less. >> Do you know how much how many kilowatt hours this is designed to generate? >> This is supposed to I think 18 18 kilow. Because even they say 18, it doesn't
generate the max. It's around per year. >> Yeah. It's it's not uh not 100% what they advertise depend upon the sound depends upon how many >> Yeah. Know I know. I looked I looked at
it online. >> Yeah, it's not 80% of water. It's >> Are you just a purchase or you leasing the >> purchase? Okay. Did you look at putting any of the panels on the main house?
>> No. Main house has a lot of what you call >> dormers. >> So it had like a lot of small small sections. >> Yeah. And therefore cannot put it. And also we don't want the main house which is kind of over
showing on main house and which is like you know just the road like away from >> Yeah. >> What about though like on the back of the house because then no one would be able to see it on the back side of that
main house. But also has lot of small forction. If you take a look at I don't know whe it has like very small there's a sunroof. There's a sunroof over there you know
and there like what attic exhaust exhaust has exhaust for the gas. So all all of the structures are just putting up piping out. You just cannot have a continuous. >> Yeah, that's a shame because like I have solar panels. We just put them on the
back side of that main. >> Yeah. I mean, yeah, it depends upon the how the structure is, right? I mean, how the layout of the roof is the layout is like kind of flat rectangle. It's big. >> Yeah.
>> How far from road did you say the garage is? So the garage is right now there's that kind of easement right so easement is around like 10 ft and then I would say another >> so we also put like we put another trees
over there which will be going to the power All right. So, what do we think? >> What I'm trying to weigh what I try to is that everything from the federal standards to
our master plan guidance to our chapter 93 rules for rooftop stuff. Everything says to make it not visible. At the very least, if it's visible, as inconspicuous, minimally visible as possible. And I
think to get back to the R faces, I think R3, this is a corrugated group. I think R3 would, it's visible, but I think it would be minimally visible and acceptably visible street. Um, and not
in the way that significantly detracts from the building that it's connected to R2. So the back side of the garage is it's it's basically a chef dorm across the
garage and so it's a much shallower roof and I mean yes it's right up against planes road so it's very visible from the street but it's not as steep as the front and so I think an argument could
be made to consider that it's an acceptable level of visibility back slope on R1 the front side is is steep uh significantly visible
and I I can't I can't really find anything federal or guidelines that would point to approving that >> yeah I was having trouble too because the exact same reasons as you and I was
trying to think through I was trying to justify it you know because I understand your situation you know I We're trying to make work with this trying to think through is there argument to be made if it's like a structure is a new structure
and solar panels are new to the historic district although it's still contributes to the view on North Main Street. >> It is not historic. >> It's not the historic part of the property. So I think that would so that
would definitely alleviate any concerns about the removability. Right. That's one of the things that the federal standards point to and global standards like can the solar panels be removed without damaging historic material and in this case >> the roof is not historic material. So
it's like no concerns at all in terms of that >> the roof the satellite photo shows an asphalt roof. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And it says it in the description too that it's been >> is it we standing seam.
>> So that's way it's easy to install it on the shapes the roof. >> Yeah. >> To what? >> Metal roof. >> What the metal? Oh, metal. Oh, a metal roof. >> So So they don't have to So it can easily just clamp on.
>> Oh, I think we need an application for the metal roof, too. Whatever. I mean, I looked at it. Didn't say anything. >> What color would the metal be? >> It's dark brown. >> Do we need an application?
>> Not dark gray. >> Okay. >> Because we're not we're going from asphalt to standing seam >> and then you're having black panels on now brown. It's a dog. >> I mean, we usually have an application just because it's like um
>> usually even when people are like changing their like replacing their roof because it's broken like they put in an application just kind of as like part of the administrative process. >> This I think it would be good just because it is a change. We don't have as many metal roofs in
town right now. >> Yeah, I saw one. >> But there people are starting to use it because the thing is, you know, >> sing. >> Yeah. Out west people are doing it a lot.
>> Metal roofs are nice, but but not the details also on your detail sheet don't show it attaching to a metal roof. shows >> yeah so because once it goes you know taking out
there's a roof >> cover >> and the other the other one to consider was a barn worth street set back >> they did put uh >> on the front >> on the front it's street facing but I
Oh, the one by me like on Scott's house. >> Yeah. Oh. Oh, that's >> so >> when that application came through, I think the barn had a lighter color roof. So, we asked >> put a black or dark very dark color. So,
the the panels don't stand out as much. >> Plus, it's back further, but it is very visible because there's no trees blocking it. I mean we also want that's why we want to make it as much as
possible. >> Yeah. If you could do a >> Sure. What what would happen if I'm just curious like what would how much solar power would you lose if we were to just do everything in the back of the
house only? >> What's that? >> Well, if you did the back roof and the >> of the main house, >> I think and also faces south. So the most sun collected that that I think we should absolutely
>> would you mind going I I know you want to get going with your project although it is like winter I don't know are they are they are they calling you every day to try to do this >> yeah I mean this is the only thing of course he is
>> Oh yeah yeah yeah this is Um, >> it's also I I know because I've talked to this other guy about doing my roof too. The end of the year there's a cut off on the tax credit.
>> So you have to start the work before the end of the year. >> Oh my god. >> Of course there's a lot of different definitions of start the work means but >> yeah means you have >> they have to be doing something. I guess
a question would be um like I if if you would you know I think I'd be curious to know and I'm trying to wrap my head around how you would lose so much of the power when you could put it on
you could put even like a couple panels on the main house in the back and then >> you just cannot have scattered you know distributed kind of like >> one here one because they need just cannot put one there
all the things they need to and put it back into the panels inverters and all those things. So it's not a question of just put wherever the panels you want. They need to be colllocated because if you don't colllocate because all these
three they all go f to the panels regular panels. I think Jen your question about getting specs on the metal roof because we just had this down across the street from me with the uh porch which was originally
supposed to be asphalt and >> they did metal and you, you know, looked at it and approved it. So, >> can it be administratively approved? >> Oh, yeah. I mean, I can >> Yeah, but you just want to see what the specs are for the roof. >> I mean, I can do the spec.
>> Yeah, I'm I can do that paperwork like tomorrow in the background for the roof. >> It sounds I think we're all in alignment about the roof um and making it like metal brown metal as you will. >> And I think that it is a good it's a good move. I think we all I think again
let's go back to the um are we all in agreement that abs R1 two and three are all necessary and there's no alternative options that could be less intrusive from the street
if we were to switch one of these or um redistribute one of these somewhere else or remove one of these we and we don't want >> I don't think it's practice to think about putting on house and
system >> because the way it's wired up in the inverters can't really do that. >> Okay. >> I think the question is my friend said I think for me R2 and R3 are not a problem. Those two exposures
would be fine. It's R1 which is the one facing the street. >> Yeah. And so I don't know if you went back to your solar divider and said, "Okay, we have to find a way. Maybe we can pack another couple panels on that
roof if we have to eliminate them. R2 end up just generating less power. >> Yeah. >> I mean the garage doesn't have much roof area to play with. This is it.
Not with the fire set. I will say I walk past your house almost every night with my dogs. I'm sure we've encountered each other. um and um and even in daytime I don't feel that
that R1 is highly visible from from street it is and if you're looking for it you're going to see but >> I mean I say back to 60 and if you look at
max you also have a B which is you have on both sides and if Look, I can see it from the street. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can walk on the other side of the curve and I can still see it. >> Yeah. I mean that it was it for I think
the justification when that was done must have been because it was set way back. It's an ancillary structure. It's not attached to the house. I get >> this is also isolated. >> Yeah. And this is but this is like I mean it it almost I I mean I have to say I I thought that the garage was attached
to the house that it was one one thing. So like that's why I think we're all trying to get comfortable with this. Um >> and I do I I I'm struggling. Okay. So I I agree it is extremely like innocuous
the way it is and especially with this picture the way you see like you can't really see it. Um, there's a lot of trees. I'm getting nervous though, like I'm just trying to think of worst case scenario. Let's say we approve this, right? We go forward with it and then
you have to start cutting down the trees to make the solar panels work and then all of a sudden these panels are like blurrilingly visible from the street and then the challenge we run into is like every historic house on the whole street is going to start saying we want to put solar panels on the front of our house.
How do we handle that? is what I'm trying to come to terms with. >> I mean, they put on >> Yeah. But um but we're in a historic district and like we have to follow the secretary of interior
>> to make it not very clear. I mean what I would say is I just would I would ask you not to cut too many trees down. >> No, we are not cutting anymore. The
trees in the front you cannot. My wife will tell me is there you know there's another there you know. So that's not going to be >> but it sounds like you did a lot of trimming already. >> We did a trimming. Trimming has to be done because I just fall out and it's
ready for me. I'm going to get sued and I have to you know already you know you know jacked up my price. >> The other thing to consider I mean solar panels are not a permanent part of the structure and they do have lifespan and
technology evolves. So when it's time for replacement, you know, they talk they they they talked about having shingles that are, >> you know, soaring, >> I don't think they're there yet.
>> They're not they're not there yet. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Someone has it on Maplewood, but it's facing it's not facing the street. at least 20. >> I don't mean the warranty, but I guess I mean as far as technology.
>> Oh, I think makes sense to remove something else just for that. >> I think I think the attachment if you have the benefit of standing seam metal roof on the attachment to the standing seam is on I mean the roof it's on the
standing seam that's great and that will make the removal argument stronger than if they were fastened directly to an asphalt. >> Yeah, that's great. And if you put black on it, you'll definitely see the difference.
>> What What do we do if um we put in these um solar panels again, which is a contrary to our, you know, traditional uh guidelines um and he like has to move away and someone else comes, can they decide to cut down all the
trees and then all of a sudden >> What's that? >> Yeah, they could do that anywhere. >> Yeah. I mean, I don't think we should use trees and shrubs as like right if it's a fence or a wall or something like that then I think that that helps us judge visibility but
>> yeah shouldn't really be >> the town also has a tree ordinance that you have before you can cut down a tree you have to get a permit >> oh really >> on your property yes >> used to be not on your property on your property was your own business and it
was just property but now it's >> right So there's another safeguard for trees. >> Okay, that's good to know. Um because I do feel like I feel more comfortable with this idea knowing that
there are kind of cheese, you know, you want to also block it. Again, I think if if this is where it has to be and there's nowhere else it can't put on the main house like on the back, then this is I guess it's my my
I'm justifying it and saying this is because it would the panels were put on an addition section which is a new >> Yes. I mean the roof service and forward all that is
still whether it's you know I'm not sure. question. Yeah. Okay. Oh, so I guess motion to approve and then people can vote yes or no.
>> Yeah, just just go with that and then we can vote. Second. All right. Roll call for the approval of HBC 265-25. Miss Smire, no. Miss Ryan, >> yes.
>> Mr. Guyer, >> yes. >> Mr. H, >> and Miss Marlo, >> yes. >> All right. Thanks. Motion passed. >> And do you want to put the stipulation, the metal roof spec? >> Yes. If you want to send the metal roof
specs, like just fill out a little application and just put in the picture of the tural, we can approve it in the background. >> Okay. >> All right. Good luck with your project. We'll be looking on you. >> Um I think yeah, I will send um
>> the approval tomorrow and it's just going to say that you have to send in the roof replacement application and then we >> just the two of us can >> do that one as well and then you can move. >> Huh. Yeah, email's fine.
>> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Just writing that so we don't forget. >> This is our most difficult application already. >> Well, okay. Um All right. So, do we want to go
over minor and ordinary maintenance and repair approvals? I had a question. >> Okay. Um, yeah. So, the first one was, uh, we kind of glanced at it the last meeting. It was the rear end's property.
Um, 158 North Main roof replacement, chimney replacement. Um, this is the one where their their roof is like falling apart. >> They're falling apart. So bless her heart. >> Yeah. So >> well their chimneys taken down. That was the big
>> that was a big thing. And it looks like siding was taking off. >> Yeah. >> But we know it's in good hands now. >> Yeah. >> Project. >> And then the other one was 11 North Main just chimney flashing replacement in
hell. What about um the pretty house that's um used to have the moon shutters and it's across from the Presbyterian church? They just redid their roof yesterday.
>> Did that house do an application? >> Do you know what the address? >> They were literally redoing their roof yesterday. >> I didn't see an application. That's why I thought maybe we had any >> I'd have to look at the recent ones. Do you know what the address was?
>> Um, I don't know the address. I can look it up. Um, >> yeah, let me know and I can check. >> Okay. >> In case it was a past one that they just across from >> um it's 20 probably 20 or 30 something.
>> Yeah, it's the house with the green, you know, the house with the green door. Um, it's next to that >> and now it has a blue door. That's Is that South Street? >> It is North.
>> It's >> Oh, I'm sorry. South. It's south. Yeah. >> And it's right across the street from the church. >> It's two in from >> We looked at it. >> Yeah. >> 27. >> Do you have a picture?
>> I can't. Well, I could do the street thing, but I better church. Church is right there. >> I saw the one. >> Yeah, I'll I'll I'll look up the number
until >> they were just replacing it though. >> No, I saw them take off the roof. >> It's not 20. You said 27. It's not 27. >> Okay. >> It's uh 30
29 30 maybe. >> I don't remember getting one for >> So that's why I was like, "Oh, >> no." Um, no. Two doors went down to that.
>> So the one next to it is the house. >> So this one, >> it was on the house tour, remember? It has >> next to that one. That's the green door. >> No, no, other way. >> This way. >> Yeah, they had the moon shutters.
>> Okay. >> But I think they got rid of the moon shutters, right? >> Put them up. That new owner put them up >> a couple years ago. >> Yes. No. Yes. Yes. That's it. Yeah. That's it. Yeah, there had been room.
>> I swear to God, I thought I >> No, definitely the rear L going back. That's where they're doing. >> I thought I was like, oh, they're just replacing it. I figured there was application just to switch it. It's not that big a deal, but we'll find out what it what's going on.
or not. >> I would like some clarity. Um, in the last couple years, there was a change to um the the improvements to homes that required an application. I believe if people were
replacing windows, is that correct? That they did not need to do an like a building permit anymore. I thought there were a few >> roof roofs definitely they need to change. >> Okay. >> You don't need a building permit. >> You don't need a permit. And that was
the issue that if you don't need a building permit, how do you >> HBC historic district homes need to put an application in, >> right? But they don't need a building permit. But it doesn't it makes sense
that if it's a homeowner or it's the roofer and they don't have to put in a permit, they're not going to be notified that an HPC. >> There are any number of things you could do a building permit which would affect historically
>> and they still have to come. >> That was the whole point of going from an advisory committee to a preservation commission. But there was a switch just within the last couple years and there was like several items I remember we discussed it when you Robin and I sat
down the the building. >> Yeah. >> So I I guess I'm just asking for some clarity on that so we understand. >> Thanks. >> Okay. So we'll follow up on that. Um >> what was the number? 32
>> 33 33 >> is it definitely that >> so mean yeah okay >> I don't remember getting that so probably not >> it could be that they just I mean they know I know they came to us about their shutters like I feel like
>> changing their new >> um but maybe now it's new people and maybe they they're I have a feeling >> same past two or three years this is bad >> yeah but maybe they they they you know again's point like maybe they or their contractor kind of was like, "Hey, you
don't have to do anything. It's just a roof." You know, and then they were just like, "Oh, okay." >> Maybe they >> especially since they weren't changing anything, you know. I think they just were ch we're replacing it. >> Did something on the back >> maybe? Yeah. >> No big deal. We'll figure we'll figure
it out. Um Okay, cool. So, let's go to the next. Um let's go. >> I have one more comment. Do we really have 267 applications? See, that that's telling
us if it's HPC 266. >> I'm not sure what number it started with. >> I don't think we had >> I don't think so. >> Just curious. >> We might have had 67. That's >> I'm not sure if that's running number
since we started this few years ago. >> Yes. just to keep a more accurate track of these applications. They were just randomly numbered each year. >> So this is severed. >> Yeah. next week, next month.
>> I mean, that could >> have to do that just for fun. >> Shock everyone. >> But to answer your question, there's no reason at the start of the new year to start at one.
>> Yeah, it's true. >> End the year. >> That's true. And this way by December you can say we have >> it helps with the year end report. >> Thanks Gina. >> Okay so um so next we go into our old
business and our our goals. Um the ordinance for the historic district. We had a really great productive call. Um Brendan got on with and myself got on with Liz. Um she started drafting out the ordinance. Um and they went over a
few um edits uh to make. Did she say when she was going to get a new draft back to us? >> No, just that everything we have to wait till next year. >> Yeah. Yeah. So I think I think we can follow up like on the course of the year
probably that um but it's moving. It's moving forward. I think we're almost there to go back in front of um TC and then planning board again and then back to TC and it'll be done. So, Homestratch.
Um, okay. Let's see. Okay. CLG Grant. It sounds like we got a um an announcement that the CLG grant application is available and it's due on March 31st.
Okay. Um, so I saw in the meeting minutes from last month's meeting that Mr. Kab. Um, I was uh I was actually a little surprised to read that we were talking about the like outside
>> outside the district buildings as opposed to amending the district. was one that's what I remember is because we were weighing the two options to >> separate them out thinking >> and I had thought that we were doing the within the district first but it sounds
like there are a lot of non-contributing structures within the district. So I I guess we should just build that list and see is like really break it down by grouping them what we think is contributing not contributing what's something that had
been reviewed before but didn't get some but missed something in its review that needs to be reserveyed um what's being for the first time I think we just really >> several categories >> and I had thought you based upon what happened this year with the different farm houses you seem to be going toward
the farmhouse >> that was my argument Yes, I thought that >> but I think the point is to separate the two out. So, >> one is to go and fill in since these additional structures are going to be added to the historic district >> to get those documented because there's
some significant ones like the two cemeteries get more um need around >> Yeah. the history of of of those properties, but we have the one on the corner of Scott Avenue and North Main Street that had significant
uh renovations too since the first or second survey. >> That homeowner asked that that be done >> thing things like that and a couple that were missed for whatever reason on North Main Street to fill in the gap. So those
all those structures are just accounted for. I mean that's one way to look at it and then you can figure out how you want to do the farm much different because they're not all so visible from the street. How do you get that information
or do you look at that's that web webinar that we listen to um which was very good the different like a theme like farming families and how they're interrelated >> and farm properties those kinds of things. Do you think that maybe once we
have gathered the data for both groups, once we've separated them out that we could ask which one might be a better candidate? >> Yeah, we have three whole months. And then the thing too is like we have we
know it needs to be the amount needs to be between 15 and >> if we know from last year kind of an average you know price per 10 houses we might be able to figure out
>> yeah that's see that's the problem I always felt the state does this every year >> and they see all these different quotes coming in >> as part of the grant application that they don't give some guidelines. If you're doing X number of houses and it's
an intensive level survey in a historic district, plan on estimating for I don't know what $1,000 a house to do the National Registeration and I did get I did all price of $4,000
for just one structure >> and you know and you know so with the with the inference that the whole district is going to be a lot more so >> maybe >> yeah I think I think the problem in hindsight was we had such a variety of
properties that we were lumping together obviously the the consultants had problems >> and that we had >> putting a quote together and they were very different wide range. So this year we need to try to >> So uh why don't we do this? Why don't we
set to set up um like a little strategy session >> um where we look at our data and we look at the numbers from last year and then let's try to figure out the different themes and yeah make a strategy for how we're
going to go about it. Um, so I can work on setting that up. I have a thought for how to prioritize the properties that are outside the district and uh and two two reasons why
this comes to mind and these properties are set back some of them are set back from the road quite a bit as opposed to the district do the surveying from the street and so um for that reason and also because I'm trying to think about
what the survey will enable us to do and if what the survey enables us to do is help the property owner apply for um the listing on the National Register. I think it's worth contacting the owners of any of the properties we're
considering having find out if they're if they would welcome the surveyor onto the property to survey it and if they're interested in pursuing any sort of recognition. Um because if the property if the surveyor is going to be stuck on the street and can't see anything and if
the property owner doesn't want to do anything with the survey anyway then I'm not sure what the property >> there must be something I'll try to look at we we saw the webinar we heard about thematic districts this is a special case but it
can't be the only thematic district of agricultural and you know properties in the whole country. There must be some. So, I I'll yeah, I'll try to track one down and maybe see if there are other
examples of how this was done because we can't be the only one, >> but it could be a combination. I agree. This could be an opportunity for homeowners given the situations we've had in a couple of farm houses this year that maybe jolted them think into
thinking maybe I should look at getting this property preserved on a register. Um, so there's probably some that want to do that, >> but and prioritize those, but I think you still probably should have um some
historic inventory of all the pertinent farm houses just to have them >> in case they get torn get torn down. At least there was some record of what was there. >> That was the level I was thinking of was the CLG request would be for inventory
level. you know, as opposed to nomination level, right? >> Just to document what we have >> and that's a starting point and then you can build on that. >> Dave, are you able to send me your the spreadsheet and then the data that you
guys the stuff that you sent in last year for the CLG? >> You have I think you have >> I should or Gina, if you could recall in the application >> I know I don't I don't have it top of my thing. I'm sorry. >> I I'm thinking we can use it to as a
jumping point, you know. Um >> you don't have it then I can I can drop it off. >> I should normally just budget I guess. >> Yeah. I mean she's been very helpful the last couple. So >> yeah, I I haven't heard anything about a disc.
>> And given that you're working with all the same properties, I mean, she has all that compiled. >> It's just now rewriting it to to where where you want to focus it. >> All the same information, but we Yeah,
exactly. Okay. We will set up a strategy session. um and uh take it from there. Um okay, speaking of the designating the sites outside of Okay, the sites outside of
the district. Um any next steps with the um 1860 farmhouse? Thank you everyone who was at the meeting that we had last Monday. >> You did a great job. >> Thank you. It was um very obviously very uh upsetting and frustrating but um I
think we we put our best foot forward and um we will see how next steps come forward from that. >> Um heard anything from TC at this point or >> no nothing. >> Uh just that they wanted to work with us
on their terms and conditions. um over affordable housing. Um I had a discussion with someone about >> what would that be? >> Victorian house. Yeah, that's right.
>> So um you and I had spoken about um salvage. >> That's right. The salvage. >> You had had a conversation with board >> and said, you know, you can do what you can do whatever you want with the house. But I did see a note in the meeting
minutes from last month that our um leaison was concerned about >> Oh, the schedule. Yeah. >> Uh that and like other entities using the house township property. >> I don't I we're going to move forward this way. Um they can we can have
discussion with them offline. >> Okay. I think I would just need to start like in researching this and figuring this thing out so it doesn't get >> But the point is how historic let's talk farm houses. >> Yeah. >> Outside the district if they're going to
be demolished. There should be some options. Yes. >> A is >> would somebody be interested in relocating the house? >> Yes. >> Because we've done that. >> So >> we've done that over the years. That's what I I had another I had another conversation about that topic. Now I'm
remembering. Um I actually brought it forward to the historical society >> um and told them this information since they moved to that other house. Um >> and what I learned was the challenge with moving is much more nowadays than
it used to be because you have to take down the power lines. >> Yeah. Uh, and so with every power line that you have to take down, it's like tens of thousands of dollars. >> And just to move the house that that they moved across um an old Trenton
Road, it was like over $100,000. And they dis they dismantle like three power lines. And so if you were to move like this Victorian um if you were to move it let's say to some farmland down in Robinsville let's say
>> um's there's no way no way that >> you could never I mean let's just put it on Route 130. I don't know how you would go, >> but the the other the other option the other option could be totally dismantle it. >> Yeah. >> And then reassemble it so you don't have
that do that. And then there's also a couple of properties that are nearby that are for sale. And so someone suggested that we reach out to like, you know, like the land across from Byite is for sale. like would that person be
interested in relocating there if they have like >> but I think today's point for example and store it somewhere and reconstructed eventually >> right I mean it's obviously a little more complicated if you're doing a house >> somebody out there might be interested
in doing that take all the contributing parts and So what I what I would ask everyone to do since we we are sustainable New Jersey and I really don't care about other timelines and you know other
things that are going on with this affordable housing. We are sustainable New Jersey. We have that certification. We have that um I I think you know obligation to do what's right with this property. And so I would ask you guys
all to research this whole salvage business world which I know there are people out there that do this and like maybe Dave like if you have time to look up and and maybe Bobby as well like look up what what what's
involved with this whole dismantling re remanting and then Sue it looks like you have like already some folks >> right these are these are salvage um retail locations so The next question is, do they actually do the work?
>> We um when I was uh up in Rochester visiting my family, we visited a salvage store because we like them. And um and we're speaking to the homeowner and the business owner who said that's how she gotten her start before she had, you
know, a storefront. She was the one who would get the call and come out and salvage in buildings that were to be demolished. So they exist. Someone from CHIPS said that Betty Wagner used who was like our was our shepherd of of of
historicalness in back in the day. She arranged for some sort of a salvage of of one of the farm houses on the other side of Route 130 and a bunch of folks in the historic district got old doors and things. >> The house is still there.
>> The building is still there. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> It was kept intact. I think they use it for storage. >> Oh, but they use it for storage now. And so people took some of the interior moldings and stuff. Yeah. So, and then there was also they also mentioned that
there was a gentleman, a builder who also used salvage. Um, and I actually know the owner of the house. It's it's kind of on Old Cranberry Road. It's across from um the duplexes there or the
triplexes. Um, it has two big columns up front and like the builder was a famous builder here in Cranberry, but I think he's no longer with us, but he used to build things. There are builders that use salvage materials. >> Absolutely.
>> So, like if we can try to do some research and just talk around as you're doing stuff, talking to people you know in your world, let's try to think through some ways. >> And that would be a option too if nobody's interested in the building. >> Exactly. Yeah,
>> salvage historic salvage materials that somebody else can use similar to similar to a farmhouse that was in the news last week. Um, we have no idea what the condition of this building is currently,
>> whether it's in good shape, whether there are a lot of, you know, good features inside that um are of interest or whether it's falling apart. I can share some of what we learned and that's that the primary tax assessor
attributes 72% of that property's value to the improvements on the property. So most of the value actually is in the structures. Um there there are three um there's the spa building which is 4,500
ft and is 45 ft wide. the massage school which is 5,500 square feet and 51 feet wide and the retreat center which is 500 square feet and so I imagine that the spa building and massage for the 4500 to 5500t buildings have significant value
in them but because they're so large it also makes it very difficult to move it um even just route 130 is like even getting it to route 130 even if you were going like it's realistically because these buildings are so large The only thing I can find that they could
probably move to actually very reportably would be there are two neighboring properties that are nonconforming in their usage. They are currently being used for residential, but the it's not a residential zone. So those properties that are 9960 ft and
1,98 ft can't be expanded in usage. And so possibly we I know nothing about the property owners and what their intent is for either of those two properties, but they are adjacent to the the property in question 1274.
It you wouldn't have to take down a single power line to just it's basically just rolling over. >> Um and so we they kind of have the depending on what again I don't know what their intentions are for property, but you'd be offering them a building that's worth more than half a million
dollars. I don't know the right and to replace something that can't be improved upon. >> There those are at least two properties to consider to talk to to see if they're interested. >> I love that. >> They could have >> the little r So the little ranch house
that's next door >> ranch house and then the one next to that. There's two of them. >> There's I didn't realize there was two. Okay. >> Two of them. They're both rented. Again, I don't know what the situation is, but lease hasn't tended. So like it's presumptuous to say that they are interested in >> if they are not. Sounds residential. Is
it realistic to the residential building? >> Well, aren't these probably commercial buildings given that was used as a spot building? >> Wait, so it's commercial? >> Yeah. and a commercial building, right?
>> But it res >> Oh, it got reszoned where they live got reszoned to industrial. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, and because so much of the value is in the improvements, I wouldn't expect the current owner to be willing
to let us touch it until it's out of his hands. Township owns it because >> um but that actually is going to happen pretty soon with um according to documents filed in the court yesterday, the township anticipates filing declaration taking by mid December and
the township anticipates receiving title of the property by the end of this December but no later than the middle of January 2026. So we'll be in the township the township very soon. >> So that means we can start helping the township make good use of these structures that otherwise will be
>> demolished. Okay. All right. I'm going to follow up on those two ranch houses. Um because I think that is something to explore and figure out what's going on there.
Um, and then if we can all keep uh researching the salvage situation. Um, and then yeah, I think we have enough information. We know where to find information about moving. Um, based on the folks that at Chips that did that whole project, um, I think they probably
know a lot more about how to move a house. >> Well, I think who did the 173 cottage >> Yeah. >> are very knowledgeable about moving. >> Exactly. >> Exactly. very accessible.
>> Yep. They a lot. Good. Um any other com any other comments about farm houses and he sites outside of the historic district? >> Yes. Uh the the township in a court filing
yesterday made public what the ultimate site is for uh 12:30 for. >> Oh. >> Wow. Brandon, >> I am happy to report that it is not on the master plans list of historic sites.
>> Um 12 1260 South River Road is >> where D intersects with across the street >> where the gas station is. No further north house itself. >> It's another far.
>> Is it another >> There's an old house, but again, it's not on our >> on our target list. >> It's not on our Well, >> it's on the list that we were serveing. It's not identified as a source. So,
>> Oh, that was the one. Um, >> what's that? Yeah, they had seen count. >> It's a big struct big big house. >> What year is it? Do you know?
>> It's old. It's an old house. >> So, it was on our list of to be surveyed. We But it's one of those challenged ones because it's so far set back. We don't even know what it looks like. >> Yeah, it was on our list, but not on the master plan. >> Yeah.
All righty. Out with the old in with the new. Um, okay. All right. Speak. Uh, next topic, the Hamlet. I'm excited to share that. Um, applications pretty much ready to get submitted. I'm making the
remaining edits that Sue had put in. Sue went through it with the fine tooth comb. she and I had forgotten to clear the pictures of the structures in Monroe. Oops. So, that was a huge catch. And um I'll be able to submit it. I'm planning to get it in tomorrow. The big
thing, Gina, is I'm going to send them all the files as a Google Drive. >> Um their document reference is a junk drive. I don't even know where to like send that to. So, I was gonna just >> they don't I'm pretty sure now that they
have they have an like etransmitter. You tell them, I want to send you this. >> Yeah. >> They send you the erransmitter and you fill it out and then they send you >> then they send you a link >> for upload everything. Exactly. That's I think that's all you have to do.
>> If I I might if it's okay if I like lean on you a little bit as I'm submitting this thing just to make sure that they get it and that they have everything that they need. Um, >> no problem. >> Yeah, I don't feel like printing anything out and giving it to them. Um, but I'll be good. So, yeah. So, we'll be
able to finish that. Um, Revolution New Jersey, any updates? >> No. >> Okay. >> Public outreach. Um, I also don't have any updates. Does anyone have any updates on that topic? Feel like we
accomplished a lot. Oh, yes. This uh the agenda thing. Jwood, what's going on? >> Um, so we talked about it last meeting, I guess it was. >> Um, I reached out to her again just to
confirm that like the summary was what she was saying >> the date of the win. Yeah. Um, so this is just the final uh I printed this out again so you can actually see her initial comments from um August and
then she just confirmed with me at the end of November that this statement is what she agreed with I guess. So I guess it's just voting in terms of if everyone feels comfortable it being
added to the website as like a separate section. Are you thinking >> I can replace the PDF with this which would have page I can append this page to PDF. >> Okay. Yeah. Whatever. >> Sheostious about you know people's private
information. Does she want her name on this or not want this? We shouldn't put her name. >> What did you say? >> We shouldn't put her name on. >> I would say not >> I would say for privacy. I wouldn't put her name, but I would
>> we should strike that. >> Yeah, just strike that. And uh there's a typo in first line of the original paragraph between 1987 and 2002 and added
uh that second and between 2002 and added isn't in the property. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um, so Emily, I feel bad that you're just sort of sitting over here. Do you want do you want to come up and sh and
do you have anything that you'd like to share or ask or discuss or anything? I know you're probably in the midst of hearing back from colleges. I was a little did he like cut that issue. So, I don't know when he when he would
have cut the trees. >> He did. He did not cut the trees from what I hear. >> He says he's going to trim them. >> What did you see in the map? I saw that first trim because I saw I think it sounds like he's going to
trim it like I mean they'll it'll probably like whenever you have your trees trimmed it's going to always we're gonna we're gonna it's going to look like it's a lot and then you kind of get used to it and then it starts growing back again usually like after they first do a trim you're always like oh my god
you know If I had my choice, I'd rather have him trim the trees than PSG. >> They're always one side. >> Oh, they're horrible. >> Yeah, they don't think anything about how it's supposed to be. >> Horrible movie. >> So, yeah, I think he is. And that's why
I was like that's why I didn't like it. That's kind of why I was voting no because like I just feel like we're gonna see it to your point. like it's it's going to take the leaves calling off the trees, him trimming the trees, >> but he's plant he said he planted some new trees that are going to be not as
tall as the prior what was there before. >> Yeah. But even still, he's going to want to try to keep them away from the power lines. Power lines where the roof is like I don't know. We're going to be able to see these power. This is going to be the beginning of more applications, I'm afraid. But I think
we're just going to have to explain to people like um they did it on a non contributing >> not contributing >> structure. Yeah. I think that's kind of do. >> Um
yeah, it's extremely it's extremely difficult. I mean I knew that this application was going to come to us someday. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, do you think like in the new year once you if you have any free time you could
help us with the website next year? Okay. All right. Because I know we had that down as like a project for next year. So >> she knows she's >> once she knows she's in >> Yeah, exactly. Oh, she's gonna go to college. >> I know that. >> It's which college is lucky enough to
get you. >> Um, okay. So, other business, >> do you need us to take a vote? >> Yeah, I think so. >> Well, on the Okay. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's not up to me. >> So, I'll make I'll make a motion to
approve um the D the addition to the six Maplewood >> property report minus the homeowner's name for privacy. >> Okay. >> All right. Roll call for that. Six Maplewood addendum. Uh, Miss Sutmire,
>> yes. >> Miss Ryan, >> yes. >> Mr. Guyer, >> yes. >> Mr. Hull, >> yes. >> And Miss Marlo, >> yes. >> Thank you. Motion passed. >> Um, can I ask a question about the library? >> Yes. >> Um, so I saw in the minutes that the um
librarian wants to only have books on the shelves that are directly related to cranberry history. So over our campaign, ever since Linda was here um of purchasing books every year. Um we've
also looked at books about uh home repair and style historical styles things that are not cranberry history. So what's going to happen to all the books that we have already purchased which no longer fit the definition of
our bookshelf? So when I spoke with her, they she said that they didn't retain those books. A lot of those books. >> What? >> Yeah. No. Yes. I think they got rid of the library board about that. He was
very upset. >> They have a very like You were Were you at this meeting when we went over this? >> No. >> No. Okay. >> I think they were both. So they have a very different vision for how the
like that like that's supposed to go. Uh and their vision is that um we have books about local cranberry history and that architecture books were not a priority. Um I had initiated the
discussion with her about the importance of having children's books about historic preservation. Um because that was what triggered this whole me having this dialogue with her. Um and what they what she really stated was like, you
know, they have um a mission. They have like a three-page policy on book donations. Um they're very careful about which books they keep in the library. and they believe that the best way to educate the community and to do types of
things like this are in programs. They were not their books to dispose of. >> I know >> they came from town hall with the agreement that they would be more publicly accessible of our outreach mission by being in the public library.
So if they didn't want them anymore, they should have come back to town hall. >> Frustrating >> discuss with us. >> And every time it was there was the initial donation, it was a there was a memo or letter sent to the the
librarian with the list of books that we were donating and each year subsequently that we added books I think that was also done. So it was all always recorded what what books were HBC donated.
>> Yeah. But that's a shame because that and it didn't take up much of shelf space. I mean that was >> it was a very small amount of space. >> I know. And they have they have >> few like they have the one I donated like about um historic houses. It made
it to the shelf. It's on that shelf. >> Um but will it be going? >> No. No. I think it's there now. It's it's it's so long as it's there on that shelf, I think it's fine. I don't think they're planning to like spring clean the shelf. Um,
>> and they have they have no books in general education about architecture or anything like that. They don't >> they don't feel that that's an important topic to have books in the library about. >> No, that was like when it based on my discussion.
>> Do they not have art books in the library? Do they not? Is that not important? >> Maybe it's not a profession anymore. >> You already know that. >> Yeah, we already know that. >> I am >> I'm expressing my displeasure. Okay, >> for the record.
>> And I will second your displeasure. Can we talk to >> I think that we >> I think that we could uh yeah I could try to take it to the next like phase and you know share kind of what we
discussed with her and um try to figure out how we can get more aligned. I think it's a conversation with the library board as opposed to the >> director. Yeah. >> Okay. I can explore that. I know someone on that.
>> I mean, is HPC as the township I want to call experts or in definite interest in historic preservation. There should be a discussion. What do we think is appropriate
material for the for the general public to have in in the library? >> Well, I mean, I think it's really kind of simple. We we gave the books to the library. If they didn't want them, they should >> Exactly. >> not discarded. >> I have a feeling that there was just this I have a feeling there was a huge
miscommunication. >> I I don't think anyone said, "Let's go throw out the HBC books." I think it was like they just >> what they actually throw them out or got got rid of. >> I remember too when we went there. I
think that some might be there but not. >> Why did they keep some and not others? I don't know. Seems like a very >> Do you have the list Sue of all the >> Why don't you bring that like send me that list >> and then what I'm gonna do is I will go
in there. I'm gonna um I'll look at the shelf make a connection. Yeah. >> And also like the director, she didn't want me to come. I offered to come in and meet with her and she kind of was open to speaking. She only wanted to speak with me on the phone. I did notice
that she wears a mask. So, um, it might be that she doesn't want to have like a direct face to face. >> Yeah. I don't know. I'm gonna I will try to assess the situation, figure out how >> you could offer to wear a mask >> with the board or maybe ask her to come and meet with us so we could kind of
educate her on our on our board. And I that's what I started to do. >> I'd like to talk to some people on the library >> on the board as well. Yeah. Yeah. Um so we have a line item in our budget to purchase books every year. Um and uh has
there been any discussion about purchasing books and what would we do with them if we purchase them if we cannot? >> Well that's what I asked was asking her about because I just said like but we budget for this every year we do it and she's like use that money for programs
is what she suggested. >> I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Is it is it her decision >> or or is it something that she has to >> She's the director of the library. >> The board has nothing to say about this. >> I'm sure the board uh either probably I
don't know who >> I spoke with someone on the board know anything about this. >> Okay. >> Maybe have to go to the library board meeting. >> I think I might need to do that. >> I think that's a good idea. >> I think that would be the way to do it. >> Oh, goody.
>> I I just think the library not aware of the decision that she made. >> She made this on her own. >> Yeah. Yeah. We'll try to figure it out. >> Do you know that if it was some of the books that HBC has done, it would have
been removed from the shelves along with other books that the library has chosen to remove in terms of just general keeping things that are checked out removed as as opposed to like they were like, "Let's remove the HBC books, right?" >> Yeah. I think to your point, Brenda, that's kind of she did um mention that
that it a lot of it has to do with like they keep books that are checked out and used. >> Wasn't our shelf not circulating? >> Yes, it was a reference shelf. >> Exactly. >> And so I think that may have been one of the reasons why possibly maybe this
happened. I don't I don't know. >> Um I think it'd be good to get the book list. I'll I'll cross reference it and then I will um I try to figure out how to get into a library board meeting to just get a take on their strategy for
things. Um because yeah, >> it seems like we've got like a little misalignment, but I know we can we will get on the same page. >> Um so are we not buying books this year? >> I think we should hold our money. >> But the money goes doesn't the money go
away? We use it for chach. >> I think I I basically if you don't use it, it might be reduced, but we used it this year, so it'll continue into next year at the very least. >> Oh, cool. So, it's preserved for that.
>> Okay, cool. Sorry, Sue. I don't believe any of this was mis was was was anything more than a lack of communication, lack of understanding.
like no, I don't think I I really do. There was no ill will meant by anyone in any of this. Um I promise. Yeah. Okay, speaking of ill will, I'm just kidding. Town hall doors.
I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Um bad joke. >> Just another >> Do we have any updates on knowing about these panels that we could ask. >> Well, I've done a little research. I mean,
>> there's no question we could apply molding >> Yeah. >> to the outside of the doors to make them appear more. >> Yes. >> Give it a little texture. Maybe a little texture >> without without affecting
>> without affecting well it would be a glue on >> kind of a application. >> Is there um >> and whether they'll you know >> would you be able to send me the like
the internet link of where it is so and where they can buy it from Home Depot? >> Well, the molding go to Home Depot or or wherever lumber yard >> since the beginning, guy. They've been
asking us to do their shopping for them. So, uh, >> okay, >> we could um we can buy we can use the book money and go by trim >> and and the stain.
>> We could do a we could do an outreach project and glue it up. wood. >> Would you recommend that we use wood or not wood? Because I don't think you're going to maintain wood. >> Yeah, >> I would probably use something like, you know,
>> but then the coloring >> you'd have to paint. If you guys could pull something, >> we don't know the manufacturer of these doors. I'm wondering in their catalog, do they have an option like moldings
that can be put applied to the door? >> I'll look and see if there's something on the door. >> Yeah, let's see who who Yeah. Yeah. Um, does the township need a a sketch essentially showing the basic dimensions
should be >> it wouldn't hurt probably. >> Okay. >> Yeah. The more I look at the door on the firehouse, the more I feel annoyed when I see the front door here because it would make a huge difference
>> because those were exactly the same doors that >> it is the exact same door. >> And then >> and it's probably wasn't >> I know it makes and to your point like if we find that this company that like literally made that door had an option.
I mean that Oh my god. But um I think we should find something to make it look because I just >> Yeah, >> dig up some >> um commission training.
Any updates on training? >> New homeowner letters? >> Yeah. Um there were three. So six Station Road, 59 South Maine, and 7 Maplewood Avenue. I sent out new neighbors.
>> Um, okay. Let's go into minutes. Um, the meetings with the meeting. >> Yeah, I just printed these out. This is the same dates I gave you previously, but it's just nicer looking on this. So, the only one >> I put them in my calendar this time. >> Perfect. Perfect. Yeah, the only one
that's different is the November one than like the what's it? Third Tuesday. Yeah. So, just the November one is weird. I'll try to remind everybody uh next year too before it comes up, but figured I'd print them out in a nicer way.
Okay. Um any comments on the minutes? >> I did I did mine comments yesterday. >> Yep. I fixed those too. Okay. So, we make a motion. Are we still looking?
>> Motion to approve the minutes. >> Yeah. Okay. Do you want a second? Second. All right. Um, roll call for the November 12th minutes. Miss Sutmire, >> yes. >> Mr. Hull, >> yes. >> Miss Marlo, >> yes. >> And Mr. Sable,
>> yes. >> Thank Okay, so two pieces of new business. Super important. Saving best for last. Um, okay. The first is kind of exciting. Um when we were at that Christmas tree lighting thing, we took a all the
committee chairs that were there, we took a picture with an assembly woman and um I started chatting up with her a little bit and she's super sweet and she I told her I she asked me who I was and I said I share the historic
>> I forget her name. I um she's our as one of our assembly people. She's one of our local like you know >> at the state >> Yeah. She's like she lives in like Hamilton. She's she's local. She's not um part of the state. She's an assembly
or I don't know. I have it written down. I'll I'll send you her name. Um but anyway, she was >> probably as she's our state as Yeah, she's an assembly person. So anyway, she was super sweet and like we just connected. We had a brief conversation. I told her I was, you know, chair of the
history committee and she was like, "Oh, well, you've got a lot going on uh for history in Cranberry, you know, and I and then um and I don't know, I just felt a connection with her." Um, and so I sent her um like just a little like hi
email just saying like, "It was so nice to meet you, you know, because it's not like I get to meet these people very often, right? I mean, I think I've met Linda Greenstein once or twice. She comes to all of our stuff, but interview. >> Yes. Yes. And I said, you know, um it
was nice to meet you and stuff and if you ever would like a tour of Cranberry in our history, you know, I'd love to um show you our town. And right away she wrote back and said, January 6th. So, yeah,
her assistant her assistant called wrote back. >> What a date to pick. >> I know. Her assistant wrote back January 6. I know. And I'm like I'm like am I back from Colorado by then? >> Who are you bringing with you? >> Yeah. So that's the question though. So
I sent um I sent a note to Robert and and Mayor Mirram. I don't know who's going to be mayor next year. I don't wear it. So I just asked them to figure out who from them would want to come. Um and I put together a little agenda. Um, and what I was thinking is just doing
like a 20-minute driving tour with her, showing her the hamlet, the 1713 house, um, the, um, Main Street and, um, town hall and having also showing her this
area um, of South Main Street that um, I had um, been contacted by Wayne Whitman because that south area of Main Street is actually um that was a an area of black people who were free during this
before the Civil War. Um and there's still a bunch of properties down there that, you know, I've started talking with Brendan about seeing if maybe it'd be worth it to try to create like a southern historic district area because there's like ruins from a black church
down there. There's the farm. Um, and there's like apparently a lot of Lape heritage in the in the farm field and arrow heads that people have found. So anyway, just bouncing. That's like a way longterm. I don't know. I know we have other things we're trying to do, but
>> that's pretty cool. >> It might be interesting to see what she thinks because, you know, because she she's black and and, you know, to know if there's if there's, you know, an interest from our superiors to do like, you know, historic districts in theme of black history. Um, and we could even add
maple wood, you know, to that whole Absolutely. Yeah. >> So, so it's just just a concept like so out there. Um but I think something so so anyway so um so I mean I think it would be very very nice to do that and
just to show talk with her just in general about our our fear that you know not only is history important but also agriculture and being the garden state and just the big challenges we're having in Cranberry around construction and
development and just the whole concept of people coming in for the affordable housing >> all over and yeah I mean yeah trying to create space for affordable housing and all of that. So I just but I think it'd be nice to kind of share with her all the great history that we have in our
town. >> That's great. Um, so if if any of you are interested in um in joining me, I think it'd be nice to have like, you know, another person. I don't know, Bobby. >> What's that? >> You have Okay. Yeah.
>> January 6 that day, >> Tuesday, Tuesday. >> Yeah. And then I was thinking originally of having a person who chips, but then I'm realizing like I don't think there's enough space in the car. Like if there's like two HPC's her
>> and then a TC, that's forced people. We don't want anyone have to sit in the middle seat in the back. >> Um yeah, so you know that's that's that. Um so that was big news. And then the
other big news is um that we have changes coming with our committee. And so, um, Amy is, um, is stepping back, um, which we thank her for her contribution over the last, it's I can't believe she's been with us for two
years. >> I feel like she just joined and but it's been two years. >> Yeah. >> And then Bobby, I know you're stepping a little back. >> They're taping over. Yeah. And then Dave is also after how many years?
12 years going to go and spend time with his grandkids and travel and take a breather. And I said to Dave like, you know, just because you leave doesn't mean you can't come back.
>> You know, you can come back. >> It's been it's been a real pleasure these past 12 years working with all of the present commission and prior members. Learned a lot. uh and uh proud
of the u employed the CLG grants that I worked on the three surveys property surveys that we did. >> I was the lay on the downtown beautifification committee. So that was fun >> and the master plan
>> and the master plan. >> So a lot of stuff a lot of good stuff but time to move on. just with family commitments, nine grandchildren between Boston and Chicago and traveling. It's just I was already looking at uh the winter months and I'm most of the
meetings I can't I wouldn't be able to I I just don't have the time. >> Well, you have been instrumental. I don't know how we're going to look at Windows anymore or edit our meeting minutes. >> Exactly. I know meeting minutes.
>> There's opportunities. there's there's opportunities for everyone >> I know >> to pick that up. >> So yeah, so this is I mean yeah, thank you so much. >> So I wish everybody well in the new year. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for 12 years. That's just
amazing. Wow. Thank you. >> So do we have to recruit new members? >> So yeah, we two new members and so I guess has has anything been posted yet? They haven't announced it yet. >> I think >> vacancies. Yeah, they're going to >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. So, I I'm gonna send a report of our meeting to Robert for him to read to in the next TC. >> Um and I can put in that now we have two vacancies. >> Yeah, they're aware of all of them. So, it'll post it, but yeah, some minutes
and stuff. So yeah, if anyone knows anyone who is who knows about windows, who's detail oriented, who has, you know, a lot of experience and and love of history, I mean, it's going to be big shoes to fill. >> Are there any prior members, former
members that we could recruit? >> I don't see a problem with that. >> That would be amazing. >> He's very busy. He's too busy >> putting the Rearen's house back together. Yeah, >> but there might be some new new people
in town. Somebody >> Kevin >> Kevin, >> keep it in the >> Um, yeah. Yeah, I mean I think there's I I mean yeah, keep your keep your as you're thinking about salvaging and and
you know think about who you know who might be a good addition to this committee. >> Just think of someone who expressed an interest. >> She might be interested. >> She she appeared here right for M uh M.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. With um Yeah. And they do their house. >> The house at the corner. >> Shri Mc the porch and porch. Yep. I know her. Yeah, that's a great idea. >> Love it. Okay. Um so the last topic is I
have been chair for two years. I love being chair, but like I can totally use a break and I'm willing to even be like subchair. Um the question is who would like uh who would like to
step up and make it happen? Guy, I sent you. >> I know you did. And I >> and you didn't respond. So >> I did actually TALK ABOUT IT TONIGHT. I
>> I appreciate your suggesting it, but I I just don't think I can do it. I don't have the time for >> for next year. I mean, I'm still working and um I just see what you I mean, frankly,
I see what you put into I don't think I could even come close to half of the commitment. So, um, I'll put myself in the pipeline, but for this coming year. >> Okay.
>> Sue, I know you might be getting a new job. Have you heard any updates? >> Yeah, we didn't get >> Oh, man. >> It's okay. I'm sorry, but I've been shared three times, so I don't want >> Brandon doesn't feel ready.
>> I would like more years on this. >> Okay, so >> that's a good situation. >> Who wants to support me then? Because like um I mean Sue Well, I would be willing to I'd be happy to be vice chair.
>> You would >> and work with you and support you. >> Okay. Work your way and use it as a stepping stone. >> I I have to say, Guy, I could use I think it would be really helpful because
you you really do um you are very well respected by them. those people. >> I'm not sure how much they respect me right now. I feel like they don't.
>> No, but you're very you're very um you're very you have a lot of great expertise. You're very experienced. You're a great guy. Um I think that it's it's also nice to have like another voice.
So yeah, I mean I would appreciate that and I'll do it for one more year, but like seriously afterwards. So I guess we do that for a year consider >> Thank you. >> something that we can consider doing
next year because I know a lot of unexpected things come up and then fall on the chair's plate and also but at the start of the year we put a lot of things on as goals for our commission um and ultimately the chair is the one driving
that forward. Maybe this next go around when we create goals that we some if if someone on the commission is willing to step up to be the directly responsible individual for that goal, then let's make it as a goal. But if there isn't
anyone on the commission passionate enough to take that and push it forward and not have it fall to the chair, then we maybe shouldn't put it as a goal. So that could be a strategy to help reduce the load on the chair. Maybe >> I think that's a great idea. We had five goals last year.
>> Five goals this year. >> Maybe we should let's try to get it to three maybe and make sure that we feel good about those three instead. >> But I agree with Bren. I think if someone else on the commission can be the champion of some of these things that >> doesn't all
is it fair to say I'm I'm thinking about this time last year you know we were creating our goals and some of the biggest topics that we encountered for this past year weren't really on the horizon like the fight for affordable
housing impact and the farmhouse um at 147 like they weren't even this year. That's why I'm I'm I'm a little burnt out from it because I think that if we had just had these five these
five goals which I mean some of them are very like Bobby just owns Revolution New Jersey. It's pretty straightforward. Bobby has been very accountable with that easy you know uh Brendan's been great with you know the public outreach as well as myself you know just my my
expertise. Um, >> well, the one that you have to be concerned about, I think the CLG grant, if you decide to >> put an application in again this year, >> and if it does get approved, then that takes a life of its own as far as
getting that implemented. So, >> so yeah, that's that is a good point. like that is and that's part of um I think how we fold up our tasks within the goals. We need to think that through because uh to your point like um
CLG right now kind of falls within the amendment, you know, the ordinance, but ideally what that's we have to finish that, but we're so we're very close to being done with that. um it's going to fall out on its own and it's actually now sort of falling more
so within that goal we had around the um the properties outside of historic district and then inside this we should think through like how do we want to set up our goals for next year um well the hamlet will be done
to work on that one but there's some just to like to be realistic >> you know the certificate of eligibility will be submitted. >> That may mean that it gets needs to be amended. It needs it gets approved and
then we're ready to nominate and have that whole set of goals and also for the farmhouse the terms and conditions that whole >> Yeah, I think that's going to be or potentially could be a big issue.
>> Correct. So there are kind of some followups to you know checking these things off of this year's list. >> Do we want to make our goals um visionary goals or do we want to make
them task or goals or do we want to focus on more end end product goals? For example, like we wrote the goals based on sort of themes. Um,
do we want to make a goal like a smart goal where we say like we achieve this doing it this way by the end? I mean, I feel like that problem. >> Yeah. Because I mean the only challenge I see is if we had created a smart goal
for each of these I mean yeah it gets it's difficult because you have things that come in that are outside of our control and then things that come in that we don't plan for and maybe we need to make a goal to just be able to handle those things because I don't know is that
going to be next year as well? Are we going to be dealing with more of this? Well, and on your applications during the year, you don't know when you have no idea what the ambounds >> that come in. So, you have to factor that in because that's your primary focus,
you know, to hear those applications and approve them or disapprove them or whatever. >> But that's a variable that you just depends on the economy and what you know people are doing. >> The trend has been kind of downward though, hasn't it? >> It has been, but it may pick up. You
know, you don't know. Has anyone given any more other thought into like other goals for next year's very general goal but you know after having gone through uh a couple
you meetings with TC over over issues that have not gone away just seems to be a lack of interest or support or whatever amongst
the TC and maybe it's a broader based lack of interest in historic preservation now that is sort of there but not obvious. I don't know. It seems to me that what where I was going with this is
maybe there needs if we could do some kind of education or >> I mean all of the local the historic society probably had more members. >> Yeah. >> than anything else. I mean they're young
new members in town. So I would say nothing else it's an indication that there definitely is support historic. >> Well, maybe we should do something with them. I mean, maybe we should do something more in an organized way.
Yeah, >> I was thinking too like >> those >> we could make a goal around though more um like internal communication with fans to members of TC to members of other
commissions about who we are and what we represent and what we're doing. Just making more of a focus on right now like we did we focused a lot of our communication this year on the community. um which we know we still need to do
because we you know sometimes don't get in applications and we're supposed to but sounds like maybe we need to create a goal more said around communicating within um within the town hall building or you know of all the commissions and
um doing more proactive >> communication >> also a lot of what is the TC because they've taken a very defensive But I don't think the other town it's just
>> yeah and we've had support depends on the liaison that you have each year >> and in the past we've had some very good liaison and we learned a lot of how the township committee works. >> Yeah. and they were very open in telling
us and then also trans transferring our concerns to the township committee. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Something something wasn't there wasn't open communication. Maybe next year.
>> I think it'd be great if we made a goal around more proactive communication to members of TC and other committees because like they are I think they they are feeling
so under fire that it's difficult for them. >> Yes, I understand that it is and I agree with that as well. But I also I'm trying to put myself in their shoes and I'm thinking that um
it's it's difficult for them um to to balance all of this and I don't and they aren't allowed to go and have a meeting like like if they aren't allowed to have a dialogue like we're having right now meetings like the only time we ever saw them having that was last Monday night
ever. the rest of the kids, they prefer that >> because everything they say, they feel like everything they say will be used against them. >> Yeah. And so it's like I think they just feel so guarded and and so I I think if we just if we just do a good job of
communicating to them so they don't have to communicate amongst themselves, >> but they have to realize that HPC is a valuable historic resource for this town and for the township committee. >> I think >> that if they have questions, anything
that comes up >> Yeah. with the history of this town. >> I think they know >> they should rely they should be coming to HBC and at least getting some opinions. >> If they feel that they don't have pres
go to people who do, >> right? Exactly. >> I think though that I don't think it's that they're saying like let's not go to TC. I'm sure if you talk to someone from parks and someone from Shade Tree, I'm sure those committees are probably feeling similar to us
because I don't think they they're I think right now the TC a lot going on. I don't think I don't think issues for parks were as contentious and controversial as what we had to do.
>> I don't think those issues. >> I agree. I agree. Um but um but if we were to I guess make an effort to do more communication with them and to try to
do a a better job of communicating that we are here frequently for you and you should always be we we need to always be top of mind with them so that when there are situations where they should be consulting with us they don't they they know they need to consult with us.
>> Well that's the main thing I think is that that to make them realize, help them realize that we have a value earlier in the process as you know consulting role that we can maybe even help them avoid problems. Yes.
>> Become problems. >> Just like the 147 farmhouse road. >> Exactly. >> One one member of HPC was on that tour or one of the tours. >> I know >> then it's not hearsay that we're trying to deal with. We have actual somebody
was there from our commission >> that can could have alleviated a lot of these issues that came up >> right >> agre 100% >> I think that that I think I think you can make that a goal and you know it's
one thing too it's like we do communication you know for them it's going to indirectly get to the public as well because they communicate us to the public in their emails and stuff like that. So if you
focus our communication next year more so on and as well as like plan like I had a very nice conversation Wayne Whitman planning board very nice conversation with them and we have a lot in common and and I think that it's
great to have these kinds of discussions orientation. >> Yes, exactly. So, but and there's some other folks on there are smart people on this committee that are, you know, so yeah. Okay. All right. Well, why don't we reflect on these goals? We'll we'll
try to get them down for in January and uh this was I think a good good meeting. Yeah. Two hours, but once a month. Our once a month schedule I I really do prefer it. Even though our meetings are
longer, I'm so glad we're just doing this once a month. >> Yes, that was a good change. >> Awesome. All right. So, should I set a uh this um I think we have discussion. Anything else to discuss? >> Do you need to do public
>> public comment? Anyone? >> Okay. So, um we make a motion to begin. >> Anybody second? I'll second. >> All in favor? Hi. >> Hi. >> All right. Great. Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> Happy holiday.