looking at the clock, >> but it's in between the two. >> All right. Um, this historic preservation commission meeting is being held on November 12th, 2025 at 7 p.m. Statement of adequate notice. Pursuant to the Sunshine Law, adequate notice in
accordance with the Open Public Meetings Act, NJSA 10:4-6 was provided on January 28th, 2025 of this meeting's date, time, and place. The agenda was mailed to the Cranberry Press and Home Tribune, posted on the Township Bulletin board, and mailed to those requesting personal
notice, and filed with the municipal clerk. Roll call and volunteer hours, please. Miss Sutler, >> here. and then get back to me on the hours and then >> Okay, that's fine. Um, Miss Ryan is not here yet. Mr. Guyer is out. Mr. H
>> here. >> Okay. Miss Marlo >> here. One hour. >> And Mr. Za >> here. Three hours. >> Three hours. And Miss Bellerini is not here. Mr. Christopher is here. And Miss
Yan is here. All right. We have a >> And you can put me down for eight hours. >> Okay. Okay. >> All right. So, um we need with applications. We can start by going through minor.
>> Okay. It's somewhere in my pile. Okay. Um just the one for this month. Um so, it was for 15 Station Road, a roof replacement. It was just um an asphalt roof to an asphalt roof. Okay. >> That's it.
>> That's great. They put in an application even sale. Um, okay, good. So, next, um, we'll go through old business. Okay. Amendments to the Cranberry Historic District. Um, okay. So, a
question I guess is, have you heard anything from Liz? >> Yeah. Um, so she said she's working on the >> ordinance. >> Yeah, she's working on it this week. >> Okay. >> So, we should hear back. I'll send anything along that I hear back.
>> Okay. So, then it'll go to TC and then it goes back to the planning board and then back to see again. Okay. And by then everyone will be very hopefully very tired. >> Yeah, that's usually what happens.
>> Um, okay. Any other comments on this area? Anything? I know Dave, you gave an update on CLG in email. Yes. So >> soon is not here so she was interested um for next for 2026 around
>> um so the way the different areas broke out the numbers uh from our last application. So, there were 54 farmhouse properties outside the historic district that were to be surveyed and that's something it sounded like because I
listened to the meeting of the 21st the other day. So, it sounded like Sue was maybe going toward maybe looking at having the farm houses done in this next round. But uh we need to find
possibly uh not just a intensive level survey like we do inside the historic district because a lot of the properties you can't see from the street very well. >> So there was some other um thought ideas that we listened to a
webinar number of months ago about like thematic like farming families. So um and that but there are some some farm houses that you can get good pictures from the street and tie. So it might be that we need to have a short call or
something with Richard Grub just if he's familiar with or come up with some ideas. >> Okay. >> Uh for that. So that's if we want to do the farm houses. Um the other ones, um I think now since we got rid of the buffer
area, we had the properties 24 properties that we putting into the expanded historic district, but I think all of those properties of the 24 are non-contributing. >> Yeah, >> pretty much. No. Well, most of them.
>> Okay. Okay. Well, we can maybe pull we could always pull that out and put it in. Uh the other uh group was properties not surveyed previously for several reasons like the one on Parkplace West
uh that corner built that corner house. Uh it doesn't exist on the tax map and the tax record is 61. I think it's 61 North Main Street. It's part of the properties, the block on the the two houses that are going to be coming down, I guess. >> And then the fire the old firehouse
>> and the old firehouse somehow it was just there were different different uh properties that were not done the first two first three rounds. And then there's some that we want to um
well some that have been that have been renovated. So I from the last meeting, Brendon, you made a good point about the surveys being redone every 10 years or so, but to track uh possibly
uh properties that have have had extensive renovations. So the one on corner of Scott Avenue was one looks quite a bit different than what's was last surveyed. So that has to be brought back in. Um uh so that's only 11. So we could shift
some things around, but the biggest block is farm houses. But how are we going to do the farm houses? That's the So that would if if it changes, well, it would have to change because it's just very complex. And the other way to do it as far as the write up of the CLG
ground, the others could follow the template basically what what Lori wrote this for this past one. We could pull those sections out and just update them and reuse them. But the farmhouse one is is tricky. >> Okay. The hamlet ones were done in our
last round, right? >> Yes. >> So, so I guess next would be like a little strategy session where we decide. >> Yeah. >> Now, the Hamlet one, that's another point. I don't know. I don't think we
did the train depot though. >> Yeah. So we could put that in. And then then the other uh again looking at long-term again Brendan from your your thought on the uh redoing properties every so many years um and
having recently all of us reviewing the ordinance and what's required and I don't think over the years we've really been diligent in that when when work has been done on a property we don't have really have a record after it's done. So, I
don't know if we can put on our application form once once it's done, can the property owner send a picture of what was completed so we know when it was completed and then if that doesn't happen, maybe we go through the
applications over the, you know, running past the past two years. Um, see which ones have, you know, an application was submitted but never completed. time ran out or it was completed, we have no record. Then I'd be willing, you know,
to have a list short, it would be a short list and going around and taking pictures of, you know, the street street side, street facade of what's done. So at least we have it in our file. >> So then next round of uh survey, they
can look at that and get, you know, put all the pieces together. But that so that we don't really have a handle on, >> okay? >> You know, and especially going after going back to properties unless they're so obvious to have them reserveyed
specifically because they've had major renovations. >> Yeah, >> that's good idea that you have there that maybe it's not that we're reserveying everything every decade, >> right? we can review the applications and just the application itself, we'll
be able to tell is this significant enough of a change that it should be a priority to do the survey and even just even if we weren't getting the photos of what it looked like afterwards um we just we still that could be our guide as
to what is a priority. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean unfortunately the state database doesn't allow us access to update it for simple things. I mean just you could add another photo. This is what it looked like after this renovation was done, you know, but that's the way it is. So, I guess it
keeps the consultants busy. >> Great. So um um we'll have a strategy session I guess finalize you know the things we will do >> and we should have time for that because
it's not that Janu end of January deadline like we've had in years past. Well, it's probably going to be what was it originally? April, I think. I think it was moved to either March or April, but it gives us, you know, a little more
time than what we've had in in the past three surveys that we had to get it done submitted before the end of January. >> Okay. So, next topic is um identifying the house of historic sites outside the district. I guess we're kind of in that same topic. Um I have some updates. The
um the first update is um oh, I sent um we with the election happening and we now know who's in uh TC next year for sure. Um, I told the viewer a list of the CLG properties and I sent it to
everyone in um, TC and I basically stated that you know um, we know that these are this is consist of all the properties that we are investigating and um, with you know with them not doing the Henry farmhouse
um, what there's another property that they're going to be using >> one across the highway >> was that across from Dunkin Donuts. That's gonna be torn down, right? >> Yeah. >> So, that we should get access at least to document it somehow. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> There's another one they're going to have that's mysterious. We don't know what it is where it is. >> Um but we know that it's close to warehouse because they got the state to change the the rules around that. Um and there's a chance that it will have an
old structure on it. Um, so the idea is that I sent that on to them and said that, you know, if you're considering a property and it has any of these structures on it, you know, to contact us and, you know, it'd be great for us
to start working together in this um sooner in the process so that we don't learn about everything like you know. >> Yes. >> Where we don't have any chance to really like >> Yeah. And it's unfortunate that I mean historically
many houses were moved. >> Yeah. >> In the past and recently >> Yeah. >> like the one by the police station that was that was moved. So, you know, why isn't that an option? You know, if something could be worked out or a house
that's, you know, threatened to be demolished could be moved somewhere. architect >> or or save those. Yes. >> I think but I think that the biggest challenge that you had is that like with
this situation with the Henry farm and with um the Victorian is that it was identified and chosen and they decided to demolish it and we never even got to really assess whether that was even like an idea. I'm saying obviously being a
Victorian was um was is is a beautiful home like if the let's say the Henry house was on the we we found out the Henry house was not going to be demolished but like let's say it was like I don't know would we have determined that the Henry house was a
priority? >> Yes. Because it it it came up on it was on several master plan >> as a significant >> structure but you understand there's other like properties around, >> you know, structures on them that may
not be as big as >> the problem. The problem with with the Henry farm, this is in hindsight, but I don't see what the big deal was if they just had said, "Yes, we're looking at that property, but the structure is
going to stay." >> That was the big proof. >> They're going to tear everything down. were like they were yeah they were combined by a lot of things I guess but so but I did want to let you know that I did send out this I think that they're going to value it like um I think it's
going to be helpful for them to have it and I think that we should send it to them every year so that they remember it >> well again a lot of them were in the master plan a number of them were >> so it's it's been out there >> I know um but I do have one update on
the um okay so I have an update on the um the Victorian that you guys were talking about. Um, so I um I had this one off with um Wayne Whitman who's um planning board chair and um according to the owner of um who's going to be
demolishing at that Victorian um they are open to like doing whatever with the property with the house that if like they don't have um an interest in they don't feel like they need it, right?
They want to demolish it. So like if we wanted to do something with it, they don't care. You know what I'm saying? So >> So we'd have to come up with a plan what to do with it. Unfortunately, we don't have a a little or larger plot of land
like where the barn park is like a little bit bigger so you can put a house. >> Yeah. Well, it used to be easier too. I mean there house I can think of that was moved from the other side of >> Yes. on station road. But it's harder to do. >> Yes.
>> Yes. Yes. So, we've had number of those, but would would it be an option to open it up to the public saying this house is threatened to be uh torn down? Is there anybody out there that might be interested in
>> buying it? and you know for a nominal amount and then moving it >> at least put that option out there >> that's what I'm hearing is there's not much value to it >> right but if it's not advertised like it's it's available
>> in the eye of the town it's notable so maybe someone else sees it as valuable >> it was it was carefully >> it was >> and there's elements on the inside of it too. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> Very very concerned about restoring it. >> So um so I mean I guess right now we're doing it by right now kind of making it public because we're on YouTube right now. So um >> yeah officially I don't know if potential council could do that offer it
officially. >> There probably is a website like one of the warehouses. Yeah, something like that. Yeah, exists and we should probably >> at least at least it it gives it a chance. If nobody takes it, okay, but
it's not like you're not giving anybody a chance. We're just, you know, bulldozing it and that's it. >> Yeah. Could we get some support from GC and whatever the process would be to
>> So, So my assumption I think it's a great idea. My assumption is a township wouldn't sell it until we bought it first. Right. >> Right. >> And then there's going to be massive timing implications because we need to have the dirt within two years.
>> Well, I mean, if somebody's interested and you give them those timelines, >> they want to buy it for a dollar, move it >> two months, great. You know, >> move it or dismantle it and rebuild it. You could you could do it that way. >> Yeah. [Music]
We'll certainly talk about it to it would be a question of timing as to where >> but that's certainly it's not like it's going to happen by June of next year. >> Correct. >> So if it gets the sooner it gets out there as an option, you never know.
Somebody might be interested and say like to take on that project and I have a lot of It doesn't have to be necessarily in cranber. I mean, it could be in Monroe or somewhere, you know. >> All the compartments are salt. It's not ideal for
that entire structure. I mean, I think the compartment of it. >> Yes. Well, a lot of old houses in Cranberry, mine included. You could tell a lot of old houses in Cranberry, mine included, when an addition was put on, it was not new wood. It was wood from some other
structure. >> Yeah. >> That they used on a lot of environmental things, you know, preservation >> sustainability, that's the word. So, [Music]
We talked about issues. How soon will the township? I saw that there's a resolution for authorized that transaction. >> It's a good question. I don't know the answer to assume it's going to take some time, right? Does any real estate
transaction take some time? I imagine early next year. If this turns out that there's actually a lot of time before that transaction happens, I wonder you talk about the owner not maybe talking about the developer not
wanting the current owner of the property or it becomes the township. I wonder if the current owner would also be willing to sell the house for $1 and then we could start moving on it even before the if it ends up that the timing is
trickier to wait. Yeah, I would I would guess shared ownership on a piece of property might make it more complicated to actually transition, but we we can certainly talk about >> No, I don't think there would be
hypothetically a third party own structure while the township was purchasing the property etc. There should essentially at that point three people involved in the transaction. We can talk about it. It's you know again certainly options [Music] But that's the right thing to do is to
talk about it now before >> Yeah. >> the bulldozers arrive. >> Hard to do after >> Yeah. >> Um Okay, cool. So, I think we've covered the Victorian. Um the other update is I
got a a message from our mayor and she was asking for us to submit all the um re to make sure we have all of our the documents that we had given to her on
the uh 147 Plansboro Road um the protic uh dancer house. Um, and so I actually couldn't remember what we had sent to them other than the slides that we had given them and the shipo opinion. Well,
who sent it you directly from your email or had >> that's what I was gonna just look look and >> I don't think and I think Stephen may have >> okay so that's what I wanted to do is just what before I go and like look
through and recheck everything and send it on. Um she wanted to know if there's anything in addition I'll look and see >> that we have >> and just going forward. >> Yeah. Um, it might be a good idea if you're sending anything like to mayor
copy Gina. >> Oh yeah, she is. >> I think I >> So at least if you don't remember it, it's it's there somewhere. >> I didina. >> Okay. >> So if there's any additional information >> she's asking like anything else you guys
want to share. >> That's what that's what she doesn't know. So, and I don't know. I'm gonna have to go back and >> what else would we be able to share? Because we weren't on the property when they did the inspection. So, there's nothing any of us saw, right?
>> No, I guess it's documents or documentation. >> Yeah. If anything else covered in six months, I'm sure whatever we have probably the lion share. >> Yeah. But ideally like it would be good to have just like >> sure >> so nobody misses something so nobody
forgets something just give us one sort of package like this is >> sure this is our >> I am gonna ask too like is you know what are they giving to us because we had in our last followup from April asked that
they do a survey of the property and do a you know cultural you know environmental assessment of historical assessment of the whole area. We haven't received anything back from them. So again, it's like the chicken and the egg. It's like we have plans for
building some new structure that's supposed to be a replica, but then the survey of the original house is never done. So where is that original survey? [Music] >> Okay. All right. I'm gonna I'll I will with y'all's permission. I'll reach out
to Steve Galisano and ask him if he has any additional documents that we might need to submit. And then I was going to just double check and make sure she has that they have our um Department of the Interior >> his intention was to restore the house >> and then it got sold.
>> Okay. So, but again, I think Secretary of the Interior um I'm I don't think that there this document is getting looked at by um the um by the buyers because to build a
replica like you have to take an old structure apart piece by piece like Legos and then find every single piece that is salvageable and put it in the replica. That's what the Secretary of the Interior says about a historic property. And so I don't think that
people are looking at that document. So I was going to resubmit that as well. And then I was going to resubmit and make sure they have the the slides which haven't changed since before and our opinion hasn't changed. Um and then the shipo opinion from the state.
>> Is there anything else? >> Okay. All right. So the shipo and then secretary >> and the secretary. Is that the document that I folded over >> the book? It's like a booklet. >> I gave that to them. They I gave them my copy. >> Yeah. Structures as well. >> Yeah.
>> I think I'll just send you this. >> Yeah. >> Because you're focusing in on it. >> Yeah. Yeah, because there's a lot. So also the sections on demolish
replica and then res restoration and I think in a perfect world just um if you can shoot that over by like the 17th 18th that would be great just in advance of the u 24th of meeting on the 24th so people
have time to actually digest it before the ordinance is drafted. What ordinance? >> So there's going to be mean ordinance written and read for the 24th >> revive for the public hearing on
the 8th of December. >> Oh, you have to do an ordinance to announce the public meeting or I didn't know if I could tell people about the public meeting. So yeah, there's a public meeting in December. >> The key question, Jen, what you brought up just brought up and I think that
needs to be emphasized. The new owner is stating or would like to build a tear down the house, build a replica of the existing house. And the question is, and you said said this, how can you build a replica if you haven't
documented the house, the existing house? It's impossible. >> That's why I I'll ask Lisa when I said this to step back. I'll ask for like, you know, are we going to be able to see what the family is providing back to us? um in terms of like you know
proper like evaluation you know aside from the um people that they had hired to go in and you know find the defects I think you know that's >> and they hired too what perspective they're coming at it
>> yeah exactly like an unbiased exactly okay um so what date did you say Robert that it should get to Lisa needs Ideally by the 17th we would need it. >> Okay. 117. I get that for sooner than that.
>> Today's 111. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Um Okay. What else? I think that was that on this topic. Okay. All right you guys. Next topic. Cranberry Station Hamlet. So this is I spent so much time on this and
Okay. So let me just take you through and I I hope you guys had a chance to look at this but it was like so long. So, um, I spent a lot of time on this because if you look at this application, it's not really set up to designate what
we're working to designate. It's really based on like a single property. >> And so, I started trying to fill it out like multiple times and I'm like, this thing is just not even conducive to what we're doing. So, I kind of just created
like our own word document on um Google Word documents and um and I started with the um the first thing was the where it says the threats to the property. I felt like
that was the most first thing that was most conducive. And so the that that statement really focuses in on how this unfortunately this historic site has sort of been like the victim of when the township split
between Monroe and Cranberry. Um it was really negatively conducive, you know, impacted because of borders and historically towns don't pay a lot of attention to their borders in terms of like the land use. And then we had on
the Monroe side properties, you know, built right up in the along the border. And then this side where is zoned as light industrial got used as originally have been farmland and light industrial. It became the same definition of warehouse. And now the whole area is
threatened um by being encircled by warehouses and and um you know there's an impact from traffic. There's an impact from noise. There's an impact from um you know just people building on
you know properties the size of postage stamp and that's really the threat to this property. Um so that was that section. Then it I went into like the property owners and I do
have um additional names of the owners of some of the other like some very strangely shaped lots that were kind of um on the prop in that area. Um
but I have so I have that from um so sweet her name um from the tax office. Um okay then exterior description. I tried to use
language similar to what um was done in the application where Heightstown had gotten their rail station lines designated. Um the only problem I have is like um and it's kind of in
is is the language around how you describe boundaries of properties because they say like it's very technical and I'm not like a land I'm not like a mapping. >> Do you have to get coordinates? >> Not not everything but coordinates. I
feel like it was very technical. Um, but I just you guys, I'm just got to this point where I'm just doing my best. And I think that given that um this application is a little different than just like a single property, we're going to just have to put in our best
>> um because >> something Liz can help with to clean it up a little bit. >> I could ask her the little details that you're looking for. >> If I'm allowed to ask Liz, I don't Yeah. Do you think that I can I'll ask her? It's okay. Maybe what like I can send it
to her and be like, "Do you have any recommendations?" Um, it's the section like the setting where it says the area we define south of Cranberry St. So I actually wrote this out because I tried to again make it into the circle
south of Station Road, east of Heightstone, Cranberry Station Road, north of the pond in and then in block 13, block 13. And it's east also the rail line >> includes the rail line. >> It includes >> um Okay. Then I had then we start
getting into the history and this was the fun part. Um so there's section on Cranberry Township history. There's it touches on the Camden Amboy Railroad
history. I started adding in notable figures and I didn't know if you guys thought it'd be a good idea to add a bio for each of the notable figures that are tied to this area including you know General Stockton
apparently um Tyrone Power was a a famous actor who was on part of the train accident. Um, and then Robert Stevens who was the um the built the architect of the railroad.
Uh, Jonathan who added like I don't know if this is something I mean I could add something really brief. >> Yeah. Could be like a like footnotes or something like >> Yeah. >> mention the name and then at the end they have a footnote and just put their little bio or whatever.
Yeah, >> I'm just trying to build build a case as well because what I'm gonna do when I'm done with all of this too is this is going to go >> I do everything in PowerPoint. I feel like >> it's how you get across and so I this is
kind of power. >> So the only thing that was not included which I totally understand on the form the official form it asked for interior description which we we don't do. >> Exactly. Yeah. And none of the h I don't think any of the houses in Cranberry's historic district was interior was
several I really made this railroad focused uh because I think I mentioned you weren't here in the last meeting but I had this relevation that basically like even though the state at the time had said to us like we think that you guys
should talk about the agriculture and that type of stuff. The problem is it's all gone. It's or and will be gone within the next five years. It's it's you can't save something that's already been gotten rid of. And so there's really no
agricultural property anymore around this hamlet, unfortunately, or won't be once the warehouses are finished being built. So I feel like we should just focus in on making this really tight around railroad. >> Well, it was also wasn't it the farmers
bringing their >> Yeah. Yeah. And I mentioned that >> their goods or their produce to the railroad >> and that's what I did like so >> transport. >> So I I mentioned that why the town where is it >> and it supported the town. It helped
build the town up. >> Exactly. That's what I pulled that in somewhere. um has sort of like after the period. So I put the period of significance is 1830 to 1872. They wanted our period to be more tight. And so I had it begin with
the railroad getting established and it ended when Camden Amboy actually got acquired and consolidated by another railroad. So it was funny because they were having this like whole monopoly and then this fight and then it became
acquired and then then for a few more years railroad was like in its heyday and then it just sort of went down down downhill. Um, so I wrote and I I saw this in the Heightstown application is they mention things that happened after the period of
significance. And so I think somewhere in here I put like how um later on this happened, later on that happened. Um, >> well, you're very descriptive in the
history starting in the 1830s. Yeah. So that Um, and then, oh, and I'm going to have the acreage of the properties from the tax, um, thing. I got have to add it up. Um, and then, yeah, and that's it. And then I was So,
what I was going to do next is, um, take this kind of figure out how to attach it to this as much and, you know, write in here basically like C attached, C attached, C attached or appendix ABC or something. And then I
was going to also I was going to print out all of the evidence like that we have all the history because I had scoured and I have like high this high of the documentation that we can attach as well as the bibliography and the the
application from the original railroad corridor and um or no the ship opening from the original railroad corridor and then the Heightstown application and I was going to put it all together into like a little book or and then make a PowerPoint presentation
that the people of the state can see and it will basically tell the story of how you know this is um you know one of the most significant places in railroad history um and it's really just getting
like you know what is the word taken over I don't know I can't think of the word either >> yeah surrounded by everything it's it's like a little house >> the warehouse in Rochester Yeah. Yeah. Encouragement. Yeah. >> Um and that for the railroad enthusiasts
and there are so many railroad enthusiasts, this would be like a really great thing to get designated, especially since it's already part of it is already designate or already shiped as eligible for the railroad corridor.
Um, so, so yeah, and then the case would be to get a COE so that we can get funding to be able to bring in an expert to do like the full kitten kaboodleoodle on the area and so we can get national
register recognized. Do do we have any examples in the state or broader than the state that might be on the national register of handment like this that we can use to help guide our description of
application and also just just help so we're not >> I can do a double I can do a search and stuff. I mean, I used what Lindsay had gotten for us from um the corridor and that was not
actually done as like the same way because this is so long ago. They did things differently. The height sound application was kind of like what I used. The problem with the height sound application is that it was based on like they were preserving like the tracks from the sleeper stones and we have that
probably on our thing like along the corridor. Those sleeper stones you just can't see them. they're underground. Um, but their their application was very like technical about like the rocks and like where they
came from. It was very like engineering focused whereas ours is more about like the cultural things like with the monopolies and the robber barons and the um community engineering transportation.
So, it's like a different theme, but I'll I'll take a look and see because like I know Pennington, they have like a cute little railway station. >> Ringo, I think. >> Yeah, I'll do a search and see if I can find like someone's if there are applications out there.
>> Did you guys have any other comments on this? Anything you thinking? >> You Well, you specifically called out that it's missing the owner of the railroad tracks. Um, but we could we do have two addresses for it. >> Yeah. And I have I I think that from um
I'm going to use what I got from the tax. >> Okay. >> Either either the >> problem is it's like um PO box so and so Philadelphia consolidated rail tax agent P box 8488 Philadelphia.
>> We could use that. before I saw that uh the fairway has just like here's our address to use to contact the company. So if you weren't if it wasn't since it isn't specifically about taxes, I'm not sure which is the better address to use
for them, but like so that I got from their website >> really consolidated around. Okay, I'll take a look and maybe and try to um use that as a as an alternate and I don't know if I should be call I don't think I
should call them at this point. >> Hi. Yeah, I don't think they care because we're just this is a a preliminary application. >> This is just the first step to many other things. >> Okay. Um, cool.
Um, okay. Resolution New Jersey and >> um we are meeting tomorrow to see what the next what the next event will be. >> Nice. Nice. Um, okay. public outreach. Um I have an
update. Uh actually before we get to the library, um did you have any updates on interactive map that you wanted to share? >> Yes. Uh well actually could you or Gina however we ended up with these um
>> yeah I can go into it a little. Um the property owner came in a little while ago at this point. Um, and she would Oh, this really didn't scan well. Um, well, I I summarized it at least, but
um, she came in and she had notes on her interactive map, like just property report, and she was she had some corrections to it. It's a little hard to read. I don't know why it copied like this, but um it kind of just describes
certain things about the addition that was on the house. And she'd been there for a while, so she was like, "No, these dates aren't right." And these things were added different times than what was said on there. Um so I if you look at the very back, I just summarized it into
like an addendum, I guess. Um, >> was this in our phase two group? >> Um, >> do we >> I'm not sure. I mean, it says it was done in 201. Yes, that they because I spent time
walking through on the street and even my house came up >> wrong with things I specifically pointed out and a number of other houses and then when we had the review of the information we had them correct it.
>> Yeah, I emailed her but she didn't answer. >> So, I'm not surprised that there there's things that are not accurate on here. So, so, so what I wanted to have a discussion about was
the these revisions, these particular, you know, corrections or additions. Um, I I wanted to think more broadly than just this one home. Dave, you were talking about how we might know about
that renovations and we have no way to update the property report. Um there is an opportunity here since our interactive map more or less serves as our inventory far resources. Um and and
so we kind of have that responsibility to keep that updated as best we can. Um, should we devise some sort of standards and process for kind of appending some sort of addendum to a PDF if the
commission has learned either from homeowner or because of our our own experience or knowledge of the property? Um, something to supplement that PDF. What should that process look like? How how should things like that? Well, I'm thinking property like this, just like
the one on Scott Avenue. Um, that one has major renovation since it was surveyed. This one, we're finding that there was incorrect information in the survey. So, I would think we put this on the next list when we're doing property
updates so they can do a little deeper dive, point out from the property owner, this is what we're getting back from the property owner and have the contractor update it appropriately. And it would give us when we go to
review the information, we'll have this as, you know, sort of a flag. We can do it a little deeper. Are you making the case that we should not update or append a page PDF and only
put on the website what was professionally surveyed that we shouldn't be adding it. I I was I mean I thought we couldn't do anything on the state database or >> it wouldn't be a state on ours
property that PDF page at the end >> well maybe we could put something so comments from the property owner um like disagrees with however you
wording it and this will be reserveyed at our next round of intensive level surveys, >> right? But uh but we >> just
Right. But it's worth it could be investigated. Um, my concern is so the the township's database would have the correction, but the state database wouldn't have it. So, we got to at some point make it the same. Well, I like I
like the idea of doing the on because I feel like it's it's showing that we hear the property best, but at the same time, we're not trying to take the place of what is done officially and
put on the county, right? Yeah. >> Yeah. PDF is very possible. Would we want uh the commission as a whole to review anything that was and because the
professional survey was reviewed by a commission and so I think we probably any amendment deserve similar >> level from the yeah the only difference was we were looking at 100 properties
you know you know you know in a four three three-hour session going through and you know all of us were looking for things that popped out and not doing a you know a deeper dive into a particular property. So this we can because it was
pointed out so it deserves to be looked at closer and I think going forward again from the whole idea of long-term planning every 10 years or so getting properties reserveyed but we certainly
can have uh a grant application to specifically look at properties that have been have have had major renovations to get those properties updated with the stated in our database as well.
>> So we will make note of these. Thank you. >> So I'll make I'll put that as a note >> for the 2026. >> And if you could let us know what that actually says up there, we can I don't know why. I'll send it out. I
have it digitally. >> That's all. It's not It's not just so we know. >> Yeah. Okay. So, um >> actually just Gina, if you're going to follow the home, can you just verify that the sentence a bank of windows was also added? Is that referring to when the garage was built or something like
the time that windows was added? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Um, so you guys, I am excited. I finally had a chance to connect with the librarian from the library and I learned some really, really cool things about
the library and learn. I wish S was here to hear. So hopefully she'll be be able to watch it. So okay, so here's what I found out is that basically we've had that library program where you gave books, put them on the shelves, the library took them, they put
them on the shelf. It was and that was how it was done. When we moved to the new library, you know, the library is is a modern entity that is run with more formality
and rules and guidelines and board and and processes and they have their own strategic plan at this point. Whereas like before when the library was kind of just like smaller in the school, it kind of was, you know, a little less, you
know, um big, you know, yeah. Um, but it was and that was it was great and that was how it was. And I think our new our library has evolved, right? And they are um running as a modern library and with digital becoming what it is, they've had
to evolve how they run their library. And so to make a long story short, um, I pretty much found out that there are like our books got thrown out. Like a lot of our books. You're >> kidding. >> Yeah. Like they threw out anything that
>> No, that's what I said. >> Yeah. And and and they they but they so they their agendas are to um have on the shelf books about cranberry history.
And so the books that we had that were not specific to cranberry history, they did not see those as important >> things that were like things like >> Yeah, the architecture books. >> No, they don't think at the very least they would have offered them back to us.
>> I don't know if they knew that they were ours. >> They should have been documented because that was >> I know >> because we It hasn't been Maybe it's been 10 years. I mean, we it hasn't always been that case. We started maybe a little bit more than 10 years ago
because the the issue was we had we bought books >> every year and they were upstairs. >> Who had access to them? >> I know. But >> the library has their own
>> but but but let me when you said that >> it's Yes. It's a new public library building. But shouldn't the public library of Cranberry support the historic part of Cranberry? >> And they feel that they do.
>> Well, that's their opinion >> because they have retained all the books that were on Cranberry history. >> Yes. But that's still from their perspective. >> Yes. So, and that is what they are. >> There's lots of things in the library that don't have to do cranberry.
>> Yeah. >> They have to do architectural >> Yes. Yes, I am too. >> I know. And but you guys saw you guys saw they originally the thing that triggered this whole thing was when we were donating a book that was second most important children's book about
historic preservation. They sent it back to us and said that it doesn't meet our objectives and they gave me a four page document on their policies for donations. So they they have their own like
ways. >> It's not like they're out of space. I mean, >> well, in a way they are, I think, and that's the problem because still at least >> I know. Well, well, so but here's here's what I had a very I had a very nice
conversation with the director because what I was trying to understand from her is like how they're how you know I explained to her I said that you know these books that we had on architecture were you know important because Cranberry is a architectural you know
>> you know resources of everything and homeowners resources and they she said that the way in which they educate homeowners and people in the community about things is through programs. And so she encourages us to have some
programs which I think could be really fun. >> Yeah. And so she thinks that we could, for example, do some programs on maintaining old houses, windows, like we
could do a program on um, you know, so you bought a historic house, how are you going to do things or how are you going to, you know, >> update? That's that's why book some books were published to get those guidelines.
>> And I guess the public appetite in her opinion is not for these types of books. They're they're not going to look at these books. They're going to like she thinks that programs are the way to go.
>> I know you guys. I know. And there may be these books may be still somewhere in >> but but programs don't they come around. you you can't have them necessitate continuously and when a homeowner needs some information, >> but >> they may have missed that program,
>> but we can like video it >> and put it on our >> We're not We're not in the video. >> Is such a good reference. >> I know. I >> That's why they still p That's why they still publish those books. >> I even asked Well, I asked her even
about um electronic books. I said, "Well, what about, you know, if we wanted to keep our book program going where we do, maybe there are electronic books um that homeowners could take out and stuff." Um, and she was a little
like she um she gave me um you know, she gave me she said, "But that's an option. You know, we can if we have some names, we can look into it and we can purchase them." So, a license for a digital >> nothing else. You could have given them back to the Historic Society. >> Yeah,
>> I think they didn't know honestly. >> Well, how could you not know? >> Did they have our names on them? >> But in the records when Lind Linda Scott sent those books over, she had it with a memo, the listing of all the books that
HPC was donating to the library. Now, that was with the prior director who agreed to it. Yes, >> I think that somehow the communication got lost in the shuffle
as did but we knew this kind of went over like you know they were like we don't know you know but we have the collection there and I I'll take another look and see if maybe there are some architecture books on that shelf >> there's well
>> I know the one I donated on historic houses is there on the shelf >> and brushed up my Dewey decimal and went over there a couple weeks ago and there is one book in the architecture section and it's more or less musings from an architect. Um that's it. There's one
book in the architecture section. I take that to mean that there hasn't been demand from patients to check out those books. Yeah. Um, now that being said, we as as library card holders, we're able to request books from other uh libraries
in the county. And so maybe what we can best offer at this point since the library isn't interested in dedicating shelf space to architecture books, maybe we can host a list of recommended
architecture books on our website. uh residents could then go request from other libraries about >> I love that idea and I honestly I think the program thing could be really fun for us. Okay, >> that's that's a good idea. >> So like imagine okay and you know how I
feel about the children's books like imagine we do and she what she said is they and they even have a policy for like programs like they have an intake sheet that you fill out and they have to approve it. So, we have to brainstorm programs and then we kind of have to present it to them for them to approve
um whether we do it. But I I think we should go for trying to do like a couple of programs next year. And we could have for example like Bobby Marlo reads the little house and we decorate sugar cookies,
you know. And then we have Dave Sabo reading how Jackie saved Grand Central Station and then everybody can color a picture of Jackie and NASA. I'm just thinking like >> programs >> but in the the long run I guess the
whole discussion we have about buying books and possibly donating not doing that anymore. >> I don't think that there's an appetite. I think we should think through other ways to use our time and energy because the objective of that pro of that how else can we achieve the same goal
because I don't think we have the support. >> Well, I think Brendan's suggestion of listing resources that people can search out >> on the online >> online and they could find the books wherever. >> Yeah. And then we do a couple of programs at the library as part of a
community outreach just so long as doesn't Jackie, >> I'm just looking I'm just looking at our >> Yeah. >> What we do as a as volunteers program that's a that's a bigger >> I mean that's not I don't I actually I
don't know. I mean, I'm just going to chat. I mean, I think we could have like a pan we could do a program that involved very little preparation where we would we could have a Q&A with HPC on, you know, maintaining the historic house or get to
know your HPC or um learn about the history of HBC and, you know, what it's like. Um, >> the uh preservation New Jersey presentation that I mentioned at our last meeting, something like that would be a good presentation. Yes. But
>> yeah. >> Yeah. >> But to be clear, I think a lot of preparation went into that presentation. So >> the one and it was on um how to >> it was about Yeah. maintaining his properties. Yeah. >> Could we piggy back off of their
content, do you think? >> Or maybe Yeah. It was Chips who partnered to bring them to the museum. So maybe they would want to partner with us if there was if there was still more demand. There wasn't many
people in our primary. They're mostly from outside. So I don't know if that means there wasn't demand in our town and there wouldn't be in the future or it just wasn't published outside. I don't know. >> I think there was a limit to the amount of people that could sign up because I think I wanted to sign up and it was pretty close.
>> It was in the museum, right? Oh, yeah. That could fit like five people. >> Yeah, I think it was like under 40, I think. Um, >> so okay. So I mean I would be happy to um kind of brainstorm some ideas for
programs. >> Yes. >> Would you be would you support me if Okay. I mean I think I think that it could be really a nice because I you know we've done a lot of we have done all the flyers you know in our community
outreach. we we've communicated that we can recycle those flyers again if you want to. Um but I think that like kind of like what we did with cranberry day we had it was it was very nice I think for us to go out there and talk to people um trying to tell the historic
society has some involvement with the school programs for kids >> they do. Yes. >> Exactly. That's what I was thinking partnership. >> That's what I'm thinking too. And we could tie Yeah, exactly. We make sure
that there's not any overlap obviously and how we can complement each other. Um but I think what we would bring to the table versus chips is that um you know we are the the people that are kind of you know overseeing that you know
process of the maintenance and the town and you know some people may not really you know, they get confused enough between the two groups and I think having us get out there more so into the community I think would be nice um
outside of this sort of empty meeting. So, um Okay, cool. So, uh other business, do we have any other business on the doors? The I know is not here. um
um training. >> Yeah, I have something on that. Um the there's no new homeowner letters, but the um I got emailed about uh recently um legislation was passed that will take
effect on November 30th. And basically, it requires the DCA to prepare and offer a one-day course with no more than five hours of scheduled instruction in historic preservation planning. Um, and it says, "Starting after the first date
in which the course is offered, regular, alternate, and prospective members of an HPC must complete the course within 18 months of assuming membership. Existing members must complete the course within 18 months of the first course offering.
This is an online course. >> I hope so for your sake. I'll let you know as soon as I get more info. But this is it was pretty bare bones. Like it's it's not even developed yet the training. So as
soon as they put it out. Yeah. There's just it's just to say it's coming. I guess >> at least there's training offered and at least years ago we had numerous training opportunities. >> Yeah. pretty much. So that's that's that's a step in the way.
>> Yeah. So that's coming down the pipeline, I guess. >> I have one one thing under other business. Um if anybody's come uh in from 130 onto North Main Street, so 158
North Main Street, which was Eddie Wagner's old house. And that application, we certainly heard that I don't know six months ago. a while ago >> about replacing the slate roof with a new slate roof.
>> Uh I think >> I saw that they were >> well I when I came back in September when I came back from Maine house is like decimated. >> Yeah I saw >> so um Stephen Gillisano was brought in. I saw him the other day. So he filled me
in. He's going to be So he was brought in to help fix things. Um, so the contractor that was initially hired, uh, I don't know how this happened, but they tore down the three chimneys. >> Yeah.
>> Just ripped them off. And, uh, I forget what else, but the siding on the sides are all So, they're going to be rebuilding the chimneys. Uh, I guess for gas fireplaces, not for actual wood burning. The roof, the slate roof, because I noticed, remember the whole
thing about whether it was going to be scalloped? Yeah. >> Or straight and we approved the straight. >> So, it's scout, but those are the original. Those are this those are the slates. >> So, the new contractor said, "You don't have to replace all the
slates. We can patch new pieces in. So, it's a whole new set of contractors." So, they're trying to correct. So, it's a lot of stuff being done. of the house. >> After the meeting though, I was thinking
for the for when you start the the the the um the slate tiles above the built-in gutter, you wouldn't use scalloped because then there would be hole. You have to start with straight. And that's remember he pointed out the first row was straight. Well, that's
logical and then you build on that. So anyway, they're going they're keeping the original what was there. >> So Stephen said because he thought the meeting was going to be next week. So they're putting an application in for all this other work and it's and it's a
ton of work. >> Yeah. They contacted us today. >> Well, they contacted us about a month ago and they told us >> our house has fallen apart. >> Yeah. And we were like, and then Gina was like, and and then they were like, we're going to put an application. No,
we're not. >> Yeah. >> And so we were like, you know what? We're going to let them deal with what they're doing. >> But if you haven't seen it, I think everybody on on the commission should take a look at what's going on. And the other other thing that Stephen pointed out and that's just is you know as an
architect he said that house 158 North Main Street is really in worse shape than the protic farm 147 Plainsboro Road [Laughter] >> and they're rebuilding it.
>> So anyway that's that I just wanted up there. I said I told him I would mention it just so it's out there. >> You need to look at the house. I know Brendon seen it. >> Yeah. >> What the heck is going on? >> Yeah. I don't know if you got to look
it. Um, it's kind of he put it in as a ordinary repair because uh he was saying everything's kind of like for like that they're going to repair it with um I don't know what the opinion is.
>> I can pass it on. >> So it's a no longer exist. >> Yeah. >> And I think there was aluminum siding on the side. That's >> Yeah. Um, no, it said, what did it say about that? There's like wood woodlap
underneath. Is that a term? >> Yeah. >> That they want to take off the aluminum siding and use the woodlap underneath. >> So, they hired Steve to come in and help >> to help his new contractor. >> So, the whole contractor basically was
bad. >> Yes. And this is a something for any homeowner that come. They have to be careful of who they get if they say they're, you know, >> homeowner is I trust him. He knows he's very >> I was shocked. But anyway,
>> do you want to look at I copied it? We can't vote on it or anything. >> Yeah. Why don't we all take it in for next month or >> Yeah. >> Oh, you think it's going to be an ordinary repair that I can approve? >> Well, the work is going on. >> I don't know. That's what I'm sure of. Like >> yeah, >> he put it in as ordinary maintenance or
repair >> and emergency. >> So I don't let me just hand it to you >> because I wasn't sure if it it qualified just because there's so much of it like I don't know. I didn't feel qualified basically.
>> So I'd rather just if it's if it is ordinary maintenance then I can just approve it. But if it's not it's probably an emergency. They're removing historic elements first of the application first.
Yeah, I agree. >> Okay. And I feel good with when I so far I have to reread it with my glasses on. Um >> I mean they're doing the right thing by resubmitting. >> I trust he's gonna do the right thing. That's why when we found out that he
called our chimney fell off, >> no, they didn't fall off. >> Our chimneys came off. Yeah. We didn't understand, but we were like, obviously something is happening, but like this guy is not going to um you know, he's not doing this to put
like a third floor on or a fourth floor. >> No, I mean the costs have just escalated. >> I don't even want to think about it. Bless his heart. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. The pictures are a lot. There's actually an umbrella stuck on the top of the roof, >> I guess, to prevent
>> for a hole in the roof, >> I guess. So yeah, if you look further in >> that's a temporary solution. >> I don't know what page it is, but it's kind of in the middle there. >> Umbrellas over to 147. >> All right, I will I'll take a look at
this with my glasses on. I might ask Sue to also look at it as well. If it's ordinary maintenance, I can approve it, but if you want a little bit, >> I'd like to just so I'm informed. No problem. >> Um, very Okay. Um, minutes. Any edits to
the minutes? [Music] [Music] I about the minutes. Can I second? >> I'll second. >> All right. Roll call for the October 21st minutes. Miss Sutmire. >> Yes. >> Yes.
>> And Miss Marlo? Yes. Okay. Thank you. Motion passed. Um I think um we have any discussion on any other topics? >> Yes. >> I had a quick question on the list of
properties that are identified that was sent over last week. In looking at those hypothetically if I went those group as historical outside the district. What does that mean for property owners?
Like, do those properties fall now in the realm of needing to put in applications differently to modify their homes or anything like that? >> No. No. >> So, it's it's really >> essentially just to get them on a list.
>> Yes. >> Yes. >> That we have a record of them because we've lost a number of farm houses. >> Sure. you know, they're gone and we there's no no record of them. Um, so at some point, like for instance, let's bring the Henry farm. If that was
surveyed in the database, >> y >> that makes it easier for that property owner because these are all standalone >> historic districts. That's how that's how it would be. If the property owner agreed they want to pursue having their
property made it to a >> start and the reason why none of these have been in the past because they're all over the place. >> Yeah. I'm just all stakeholders
perspective. So if I own a farmhouse somewhere, let's say >> I don't want to use somewhere, >> right? >> Outside of the historic district, >> we go ahead and put them on this list and I want to knock my house down to build a new one.
>> Does this still have to go through demolition process and everything, >> but it would have nothing to do with HBC. I the list just to clarify. This is the list of properties that are going to be surveyed. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> It just brought up some questions.
>> It's it's the first step. >> Step one out of like 20. >> Yeah. >> That are >> I wouldn't even say that it's a step in the process because the result of the survey might be this doesn't warrant further consideration anything.
>> Right. >> That's why it's step 12. But if if it is identified as >> ship out >> well so a number of those properties on the list are in the master plan as historic sites and those as we discussed
this summer those if there's residential development taking place on those properties they have protections from cranberries ordinances right >> um by virtue of being already being on the master plan >> one that aren't on the master plan but
are surveyed have a PDF document that describes what that's the difference. >> Yeah. And it also gives like I said the property owner could choose oh I want to pursue this and put it on national then
and then there are so many steps there's yeah there's getting this shipo opinion and then you start getting into the the actual you know local designation then you know state national >> at least you have the documentation >> there's so many steps involved in that.
Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. And so it's really to to document which hasn't been really done cranberries historic farming community and the farm houses that are part of that. >> Yeah. But I think one thing is like, you
know, um let's bring it back to like, you know, we sent this list out. Um it shouldn't be just like, oh, because the property on this list is not is getting, you know, surveyed and the owner could decide to demolish it
whenever they want. I think the point of us sending the list on to TC is to say there's once we've done a survey, we could find out that this house has like is majorly historic. We could find out that it's majorly not historic. But
that's why we need to be kind of brought in the loop sooner versus later because like you know um it would be better for us to be able to assess it earlier because we might decide that it's not as historic and you know it's again it's
bringing people >> housing. Yeah. For affordable housing or anything that this town is planning to do like you know that's why we have this this list. We sent it on because, you know, it's good for everyone to know what we're prioritizing right now. So,
>> great answer my question. Thank you. >> Okay. So, any other discussion points? Okay. So, I will make a motion to adjurnn. [Music] >> Second. >> All in favor?
Okay, take care. Good night.