okay Robin if you'll begin with the statement of adequate notice we'll begin sure under the Sunshine Law adequate notice and ordance with the open public meeting Act was provided on January 16th 2025 of this meeting's date time and location the agenda was mailed to the cranbery press and Trenton Times posted on the township Bolton board mailed to those requesting personal notice and filed with the municipal clerk did you want to do the O um we want to welcome uh two new planning board meeting uh two new planning board members tonight uh our
mayor is with us this evening so Lisa welcome to the board very happy have you glad to be here great um and John Meli melli melli I want to make sure I said it right from the beginning uh so John is joining us as well and John we're going to begin with the oath of office for you and so Sharon will administer that so if you please stand you guys could go in the middle so
you have a microphone and that' be great thanks I almost swore something to would have accidentally coordinated again stand so just repeat after me I John melli I John melli do solemnly swear do solemnly swear that I will support the Constitution that I will support the Constitution of the United States of the United States and the state of New Jersey and the state of New Jersey and that I will bear true faith and Allegiance and that I will bear true
faith and allegiance to the same to the same and to the governments established and to the government established in the United States and in this state in the United States and in this state under the authority of the people under the authority of the people so help me God so help me God I do further solemnly swear I do further solemnly swear that I will impartially and justly that I will impartially and justly perform all the duties perform all the duties of the office of planning board member of the
office of planning board member according to the best of my ability according to the best of my ability so help me God so help me God welcome thank you you're welcome thank you Shar all right we'll begin with the approval of the minutes for January 9th do you a roll call yes please okay roll call Miss Anderson is not here miss elwi
here Mr Giddings here miss kiram abstain oh that's okay we're doing roll call I jumped ahead of myself that was my bad and you followed so thank you I'm present and you are yes Mr milenberg advised us he was not attending Mr melli here Mr Stewart here Mr Whitman is not here and Miss Bon here all right thank you we have a quum okay can we do the minutes now okay so let's approve the minutes from January 9th
2025 can I have a motion to approve so moved second second great okay roll call for the January 9th minutes Miss elwi yes Mr Giddings yes Mr Stewart yes and Miss Bon yes thank you motion passed so next on the agenda would be public comment for any non-agenda items so if you'd like to make a public
comment or say hello we oh it's very nice to meet you um I had a conversation with the president of the board uh we typically do have a board of education member at the table and um we did make a commitment to contact the board anytime there was a residential application um so I'm really glad to have you here um and welcome
sure okay our first resolution this evening is biocon generics PB 39424 uh can I have a motion to approve or are there any amendments let's start with a motion to approve so moved thank you Jason uh second second any corrections changes hearing none roll call for the
bioom resolution MWI yes m gettings yes Mr Stewart yes and Miss Bond yes thank you motion passed next on the agenda is PB 39524 Wayfair uh this is block 10 lot 1-11 uh do I have a motion to approve motion to approve thank you do I have a second second thanks Jason okay roll
call for the Wayfair resolution Miss I yes Mr Giddings yes Mr Stewart yes and Miss Bon yes thank you motion passed last resolution PB 39624 Wayfair again this is block 10 Lot 10 um this is heightstown crimber Station Road motion to approve and accept motion to approve thank you
Jason sorry Bill thank you do I have a second yes second all right a roll call for the Wayfair resolution Miss elbadawi yes Mr Giddings yes Mr Stewart yes and Miss Bond yes thank you motion passed great it's interesting how we put so much work and Sharon puts us so many hours and Robin puts so many hours into getting these resolutions together and then like books are just passed in
moments so a lot of work to get uh to get to this spot in a lot of hours so I want to thank the board for um hard work um we have a discussion on Barracuda email Security Services Lisa Aman tell us a little more about that is that for um we got that in our email about Barracuda yeah I mean like any like
Corporation or entity you have the ability to catch things before they enter into your inbox so it's basically an automatic quarantine system where you can go in and you can view things that have been quarantined and some may be prohibited and you want them to come through it's just a new email address so it's a safeguard uh to make sure that spam doesn't get through so there's a couple things you can do you can review that they absolutely know it's spam and it goes away and then there's others
that are subject for your review and if you want to allow them in and then that'll be saved under your approved contacts so it's just a safeguard to make sure that we're not getting scammed or fishing emails are coming into the town um so like even your own security system on your own emails that you might have so it's a extended VPN to be a little bit more specific okay yeah and and then I think it's really self-explanatory this tutorial there's a video that accompanied it I don't know
if any of you had the chance to watch it but it's really short and self-explanatory and says everything I just said much more eloquently I don't know I thought it was pretty good so but yeah it's it's for your safety as well as the towns to protect the town um from y okay yeah got it and you and you as a you know to make sure that you don't accept something and then you open it up and then it corrupts the system or a lot of the times it'll make it look like it's coming from somebody that you know and then you just
have to look at the end of the email address and you're like that doesn't seem right so really no different than you manage your personal account or you're just doing it for here so I explain that okay ad got it any questions anyone we good okay um uh the last thing on our discussion is the um we've talked about the checklist design standards uh David wasn't here and Lisa wasn't here and that's why I had Dave come to this meeting we
the resolutions that you you see above Lisa took many hours for us to get through and it was a lot about the standards the guidelines we were telling each applicant the same thing where's your trash where are the ballards where is this where is that on on each application so we've had a conversation and Dave um do you think that a stronger checklist or an updated checklist would
be helpful been doing the the uh completeness reviews along with uh the administrative person uh uh for 10 years or longer and um in the first couple years it wasn't that bad wasn't wasn't that difficult but things were getting a little complicated in the fact that um applications now uh are not just a building and a parking area and a drainage and Landscaping Etc but it could be a lot of different things as an
example Amazon is converting all their all their uh forklifts to uh hydrogen and so that needs a whole facility on its own and it's always an afterthought so it has to be put somewhere closer to a road or maybe closer to residences or closer to something you don't want it to be at that's one example the same thing with uh a lot of these um uh projects that are uh in Cedarbrook where where now they're converting slowly from um from offices to Industrial SL light
Manufacturing they're making pills they're making uh other things and they need cryogenic tanks they need nitrogen tanks they need um uh different kinds of of of cooling towers dust collectors yeah all sorts of things dust collectors none of that stuff is even thought about in our ordinance and and that this board has struggled uh to make sure that they were buffered correctly landscaped correctly in some cases maybe painted or
BMS or you know whatever so we do have to look at the ordinances in regard to design standards for some of these newer things that are happening in cramur and all around the state truthfully uh but also we have to look at the um the checklist you know there's there were 60 items I think one item was added there's now 61 uh I'm not thinking that we need to add more items but we need to need more specific in terms of what's requested a
lot of times um I know something is needed for an application but I I have a hard time requiring it because the checklist isn't real clear on it then it comes to the board and the board has the same issues in the fact that this is not now on the plan but they really know it should be there so you know we have to get a little tighter in terms of the checklist and well and also just to comment on that um our checklist
checklist needs to match what's in the ordinance too you know you can't like um if it's you don't just add something right yeah you just don't add something to the checklist with unless it's in the ordinance it's an ordinance change which then is followed by a checklist change which my S and Robin could fix so but I'd like to be part of that whole discussion so we've had conversations around the table about doing that but that goes back to the township committee
um and any ordinance change at at that mag itude would be something the township would need to explore through either the zoning committee um but uh ordinance change and checklist change might be really helpful to the planning board to make us more efficient and to be um more um to be kinder to the applicant so they're more prepared when they come to the table um some of the applicants don't see it coming and we're
here for hours building a site plan we've got great people at the table so it it comes out well um but when you ask about efficiencies this is something that would be helpful for us but we would need the township committee to actually conduit that that H that would have to go through um so if the township committee would take that back and consider that uh the planning board would be very grateful in reading the minutes from uh your last meeting it just seems like it's in the spirit of streamlining
everything and it's going to make things a lot more efficient for both right so that's the the point of it so I think we take it back and we talk about it but I wouldn't see no reason I would just say that we need guidance on like exactly what you're saying is how it's changed yeah mayor the other thing is that we may want to take a quick look at the uh uh the fees too because most of the time we're okay but not always and Robin's always asking for more money for certain kinds of applications uh that she probably knows
best so part of that would be the Fe structure review yes almost every application I have to ask them for one you know yeah and is that also because it's just it's been a while and you know you're reviewing things you know completely differently than than you were 10 years ago since the same point can be made on all three areas yes I don't have any issues collecting the money they always replenish but every single application I'm asking for more money yes is there a general uh timeline
which townships do exactly that update fees for example something as simple as fees not really no I mean I work in a number of towns and it's it's somebody decides to do it or a planning board asks for it or somebody like Robin asks for it and then it finally Wes Works its way to the township committee and addressing both at the same time is probably the most efficient way to do it yes because you're you're changing the land use ordinance and it's all in there and you can't really change one without the other like Sharon said your
um your guidelines have to match your ordinance so if you don't change the ordinance you can't change the guidelines and if you do change the ordinance you have to change the guidelines does that make sense yeah I think you were referring to the fee structure too I'm so sorry and the checklist and the checklist the checklist all three which is really guidelines it is and can I just add as well it's not pennies you know you're talking tens of thousands of dollars that they need to replenish that's the only reason why yeah do they know that
ahead of time or are they surprised by the they not surprised but they don't know ahead of time okay okay there you know for example an application that only has variances okay let's say it comes in and there's a variance one variance and that's it but we go on for two nights because maybe there's something missing or whatever and and then maybe I do two reviews and planner does two reviews and maybe one traffic review all of a sudden that one amount that might have been
$1,000 or $800 or something isn't near enough and so Robin's always fighting that if anything I think it'll just uh make it a lot more professional to have this you know the fees sort of upfront and tight and and everything sort of yeah button down on a related question because I'm expanding on the conversation that occurred that some of you weren't in but could have read some of in the minutes what I was hearing at the last meeting
was the uh applicants are fre quently given the advice by our professionals to either participate in the design Review Committee or to heed their suggestions before coming into the meeting but they often don't heed that advice and I was thinking is that accurate is that consistent with what you guys have been experiencing I remember that's what I heard at the last meeting I can answer that I I generally do not tell applicants to go to the DRC
or not okay they usually their attorney usually figures it out decides what they want to do I heard that a lot fewer applicants have been going to the DRC than used to go yeah if it's if it's very complicated or or something that I think they're going to start with an you know like it's going to be a no type of a thing where you're going to start from really we don't want this uh then I say well you know why don't to go to the DRC and and and thresh it out a little bit and you'll learn some things but it's it's rare that I do that but DRC aside
what we've run into again and again in the last year is the applicants here there's a variety of things where we can start poking holes on incomplete documents or things that may have thought we weren't going to get caught up on but we did and the impression I get is usually those things were in your memos or uh something that you might have told them about but you know they made a calculated decision that they didn't think that it was going to you know be received is the way it was well that that's actually correct because and
and maybe Sharon or maybe the town attorney can think about it but a lot of times they'll they'll ask for a waiver on something and I'll strongly say to them you're not going to get it or it's not the right thing to do this is not what cranberry is all about but they can still ask for it and then they come to this board with this big hole in their plan that's missing stuff and I wish I could do something about that I don't know whether that's possible probably not Sharon but I mean they can always any applicant can ask for any waiver
they want well you can lead a horse to water but I mean I guess the qu the the the question I have I'm asking it out loud I don't know how practical it is is what we've seen is that a number of these applicants end up having to have a continuance and come back that's got to be painful you know it delays their process it costs them a lot of money um it's obviously painful to us as well uh you know uh I've heard Bill talk a lot about how frustrating it is as an architect to see these you know really incomplete plants they're trying to put
for I just wonder if it would be helpful for us to have a little bit of a cheat sheet when you end up in this conversation where you can point out and say look um you know we've looked back on the last couple of years and when when people didn't heed the the suggestions on this uh there's like a 50-50 chance you know we can figure out what it is but there's a 50-50 chance that they end up not getting it on the first night and having to go back so I just want you to have this information you know and here's some examples of topics that we spent an
hour or more discussing in you know public on the public record that could have been addressed beforehand I just want you to have this information and you guys can decide what you want to do with it but something that really hits them over the head with is it worth it is it worth it for me to you know come in and complete and have a you know continuance versus putting in just a you know a little bit more work before they get here I often time to I often times direct try to direct applicants but I
don't want to coarse them or or or yeah or demand something I I don't think I can providing them information yeah but but what about flipping the coin and saying why are we taking these messy applications to continuation why are we spending so much time at at what point does the board have the ability to say uh in a kind way that this application is incomplete and we're like
we do do that but we do that after they've gotten here and after we spend like a few hours on it yeah I mean if if you're going to flip the coin you would need to be I'm saying why at what point do do we our conversation before was it's not our job to build the application but we often do that or we try and get it we really try hard to let them finish in one night and even
saying okay we made all these stipulations are we okay passing this with these stipulations and then they can go back to our professionals that's really messy um so I it just seems like it I would like it cleaned up seems like there's only going to be two ways to do that one is to convince them to have come in more prepared in the first place which is what I was trying to move a a a thought on right but I'm saying if the paperwork is stronger and more specific
then Dave doesn't have to verbally say anything I agree that's what I'm saying I'm trying to get paperwork more specific we're talking about the methods I thought you were talking I thought you were trying to get Dave to kind of tell them oh this is a mess I heard before is that we've told them the paperwork isn't going to be good enough and they ignore that okay and so you can't coers them of course but you could provide them statistics on how often that doesn't play out well what we hear again and again is that there's a lot of planning boards not everyone but there's a lot of boards that do closer to rubber stamping
than we do and don't get caught up on the details as much as we do so some of these applicants and even the attorneys if they've been here before they come and they they they are surprised at the level of granularity that we're willing to get into and become stubborn I mean you're laughing so there's you know no I understand yeah so so hearing oh you know it'd be better to do that I'm sure they've heard that a lot and a lot of times it you know they're they're counting on the fact that that's not how it plays out in their experience here
there's a decent chance it is and they're not going to be prepared for that I'm only suggesting that we provide some statistics it's information it's not coercion that shows them that doesn't off that usually that the odds are against them if they're going to do that you know that the not against them being approved because in the end we approve almost everything but against them being able to get out in one meeting because it's got to cost them a whole lot more if they have to delay and come back than if they could get through in one meeting the alternative if they're still going to ignore us if to your point I mean the problem is by the
time the format is that we we take the time to patiently listen to all of their experts and then we get around to to raising our and then and then from the professionals you know with a few exceptions and then we get around to our detailed questions by then if their documents are incomplete it's already a failure I mean in the sense that we will have invested hours in it and uh you know feel some as we have I think subtle pressure to try to figure out how to make it work on that occasion even if we don't want to or continue it after the
whole meeting was done so if we can't convince them to have to to to be better prepared coming in I don't know if there's any way to cut to the chase a little bit if there's members that have a very strong opinion that we have an incomplete application so I hadn't thought about that until you brought it up but I mean that would be flipping the script the script we all already have is that we wait for them to do everything then we real ask them questions realize it's incomplete and after hours then decide that it needs to be
continued this may be a little confusing but the application can be it can be considered complete but not but still not be what the Board needs to make a decision because if they ask for those waivers maybe we need to up the fees on the waivers so they won't ask for as many yeah I I I it's not specifically I don't think the root issue bill should speak for himself but I don't think the root issue is the number of waivers the root issue over and over again is that when we start digging into the documents
they're simp they simply didn't flesh out a lot of the details that's like okay where can I see or like they said it's a rendering it's not exact and we're like well where are these about well it's rendering that's the one exception and then like we get through like five or six exceptions or you caught another exception you caught another exception or they haven't shown you know how the ducting is going to work or how it's connect to the wall or any of that because they were they were phoning it in thinking it was going to be an easy thing so in the end that had less to do with the waivers we approve most of the waivers the issue often is that we usually have an opportunity here
to to in in a back and forth get them to improve things that are worth improving in essentially in order to get us to the Comfort level of doing a waiver you're right and those details that we have an opportunity to improve we're having a hard time getting through because they're coming with not well fleshed out either drawings or even having thought about it because even when we question them they're usually sort of improvising
on the spot because they hadn't even thought of it before so in my mind it would be better if they got the guidance not the coercion just the guidance on you know how to at which the checklist is a part of but I'm hearing that they're essentially gaming it thinking we're like any other town and we're not and if we can't do that maybe there's way I don't think our guidelines are like Dave said our got guidelines I'm gonna get guidelines and checklist the checklist is good but not specific enough so that needs to be I think
that's one part of that's one but I think there I stink they're still going to come because they think that they're not going to get held up on it the same way that they might on another towns and then again a new thought would be if they make it this far here I don't know if this is even possible so I'm asking because I honestly don't know if it's legal but I I don't know if it's possible relatively early on particularly you know someone like Bill who knows how to read these very carefully and has read them completely I'm sure you could to those other people you know if if if we see something
coming into the meeting that we know is very incomplete I don't know if there's a way to flip the script and get to questioning that relatively early on before we dive too much into the details can you do a summary like and when they come in so you're you're basically you're not going to prevent anything you're saying it's still going to happen right is it but when they get here rather than them kick it off with their summary of facts can you based on your experience here say in the spirit of time and energy and money these are the following things that we see are missing
that we see we're going to spend been a tremendous or that haven't been checked off the checklist is well that's part of the so that's part of the discovery for you know we can't um we can't huddle up before a meeting so it has to be done in the hearing here's an idea sure following what the mayor said I mean c can we set up our meetings so that we go through the waivers and and check checklist waivers and uh the checklist
not applicabl first so that before so we know what we're looking problem we know the application first you know we'll know the we know what our checklist is but we don't know the application so we're not sure if they really need it or not so there's a little situation there that's um actually not a bad idea remember the the lengthy meeting we went to where there was a point in the meeting and someone said I don't know what they're asking
for and we were an hour and into the weeds and I said okay we have to step back to make sure that every board member is very clear on what's being asked and what waivers are being asked and they were they had I think seven and so we had to get the professionals to go one by one and go over them from the beginning and it was I mean it was a lot of work on our professionals to do that so I do like
that idea to say okay what if we begin with what they're asking that doesn't conform and then for any board member that hasn't had time to really flesh out the the packet they at least know what they're looking for as they're doing their presentation so if we have that at the beginning you know what variances or what um not variances uh they could also ask for waivers what waivers or
variances are they asking for have our profession present that um and then volley back to them to present and then from there we could go to open questions and if we feel that they have resolved our concerns about the variance or the waver that they're asking for then that'll help us be better prepared to vote and if we don't feel that they've proven it to us then those would be your questions as a board member to say but what is you
know explain this or give me more we may want to try that first and I don't think Sharon there's no Pro prohibition on doing that in in that order right I typically as a planning board member you take the planning board um engineering report plannner report traffic report and you read their reports and they tell you kind of what they're looking for and you can make yourself a cheat sheet but doing that verbally then they know what they need
to prove to us I'm not sure in all applications that every member of the team knows exactly what they um they know their part of why they're there to uh give witness but they might not know all of the and they might be able to offer information on why we should take the waiver I think that all could be directionally helpful but again come back to the fact that it feels to me from my collective experience that
we and most of our discussion excuse me does not end up um on a debate over whether the waiver should be approved the vast majority of the discussion ends up being that again there's various things that we can ask as far to the overall site plan where we feel things are being incomplete how they screen something how they attach something to the building what location they put something in that's not always waiver related meaning it's not that it's nonconforming it's
just that we think it's unsightly or an not in an ideal safe place what their sidewalking is ETC and um you know these are the things that you know a lot of the people end up asking questions for and then a lot of times the solution is we don't have a detail for that but we'll be happy to work with your professional to come up with whatever you guys say kind of thing yeah so I guess what I'm wondering and again not sure if it's possible because it's I it's perfectly legal and expected
that the planning board members will have reviewed the documents before they came right it's not about conferring with each other so I just wonder if there's an opportunity at the beginning where where there's you know to pull some of the members and say do does anyone have any questions about the you know about the details that we've been provided and ask a few questions up front because then if if Bill asks five questions and their answer is we don't have that we don't have that then that might lead to essentially a um you know
I don't know resolution is the right word but a propos that it be taed until they have the right details before we're three hours in and then feel the pressure to say and we'll let the professionals figure that out with them afterwards yeah it almost think should go to a DRC then right what you're speaking about is what happens at the DRC kind of so it almost feels like can every application go through the DRC process I don't think we can require it I'm not sure developer developer has to ask to go to concept you know in front
of the DRC but I'm just you know we are are and I kind of like your procedure that you have for declaring something complete there's like two ways to do it you know um you could designate someone to declare completeness it could be even like you could require that it go through a subcommittee before it's declared complete I mean maybe I don't know if you want to create a subcomittee with some of more more than just the
engineer you know before it's determined to be complete um and I know in some counties and I honestly think that depends on how you do this this can you know draw out the application but I I know that in some towns the um completeness is actually determined by the board you know and and so they decide based on a recommendation by the uh the engineer or whoever about whether or not they have enough information and the thing is is that you the criteria
for determining whether something is complete is do I have enough information to go forward and hear yeah to determine it's complete like maybe not everything that's on the checklist you know because Dave goes through it and says I don't have an issue with this this is not applicable you know I don't need this in order to determine this application to be complete so he makes that determination and Robin writes the letter basically a that's have we do it and I honestly do feel that that's efficient but if you feel like it's not being efficient because you know um I still need more
information well first of all it needs to be on the checklist and and in the ordinance and then you want to bring it to the board and declare that the application is complete before they move into the hearing you could do that you know I mean there's some boards that will meet and they'll declare it complete that they have the applicant notice you know for the meeting and in case they do declare complete to move forward you know and they'll make that decision right at the beginning you know are you complete or not and if they don't think you're there's enough information to go forward
then your hearing is not going to be till the next meeting you know and and uh can do it that way too it well but um Robin explain to me how how you identify that an applicant is um I mean Complete because they have to turn in a certain amount of things to you in order for you to sort of let them move forward right yeah so how it works right now is they will submit to myself and all the
professionals Dave 100% works on the technical side I can do some of the administrative but you know for especially for a planning board zoning board's different but planning board Dave 100% works on all the technical he writes out a letter he's kind enough to write out the letter stating everything that we need if we need things or if we don't and then I do the official certified letter complete this letter okay but I've gotten I just want to chime in but I've gotten into trouble in my own mind on that too because I've had times where I've allowed waivers to pass
through myself and Robin to the board and the board gets it and says we need that how how could you possibly ask for a waiver for that maybe landscaping or buffering or something you know that you know and and the biggest example are the are these or all these mechanical things that have been happening in Cedarbrook or other places like Amazon and the IR i l zone uh and I wind up with a situation
where the applicant is asking for a waiver and I feel like I have to give it to him but in reality I don't want to and so you know maybe what I have to do is provide Robin you you provide all the completeness letters to the board also or just to just to professionals and chair yeah maybe maybe the whole board should get them I mean it's it's all electronic it's just electrons I mean at the end of the day you you can't I mean the board does have to decide let them talk it out and say right they can say well no you know we think that this this
uh waiver is not warant yeah that so it's fair that they want to come in and and try for a waiver even if you don't think they're going to get it the the issue that we're getting caught on is they're coming in with incomplete documentation for us to be able to make those decisions not documentation related to the waiver but documentation related to the details of what they want to do okay and and just to I just want to throw it out there what the land use law says is that um the completeness
sure because it's I think it's helpful here you know I mean it says that it it's certified by the municipal agency or its authorized committee or designate so you could have like if we need more people to look at this and determine that it's complete because of you know some of the issues Dave's having and he doesn't want to make that decision you could you know put together a committee to be the completeness committee and then have Robin write the letter you know at the end and then or am I making more bureaucracy if you do this you have
to do it within 45 days that you know of that they submit this application but my feeling is that my issue is that we are talking about the same not checklist but guidelines each time for different areas and saying this is what we expect the trash receptacle to look like and we expect there to be a path to it and we expect that how are how are they getting
from the parking lot to the you know to the building but we do this every single application so why aren't they striping why isn't there you know a designation about um the the trash or if they're putting a piece of equipment and put it aren not put in the ordinance you need to stripe this you need to identify the location and then because then you have something to you know that you can rely on when they don't do it it sounds like
it's all that upfront if the more clear and concess you are up front the L gets through that's the only way that you're going to prohibit that so that you could say that then you're not having anyone waste their time on either side you're very very clear and concise about what your expectations are to be deemed complete for an application when we have an applicant to the table and they would like for us to pass it they're very amendable to any suggestion made at the
table yes we will make that happen that's when we are that's when we have the opportunity uh I'm going to create an adjective here to Cranberry eyes it because we have the opportunity to say we would like a burm not just trees here's what we would like this to look like um here's we we we don't want your EV right next to any building because the fire department has advised us we'd
like you to move it we'd like you to do this and they're like absolutely the lawyer I mean I could say we we would like you to paint those strips and and and put dots on them and they'd say absolutely we're happy to do it because they we have a a a great position where they want us to move it through that's our only opportunity and because it's a hearing and it's a legal uh proceeding we have to get those comments on the table but my concern is we sit here for
a long period of time saying the exact same asking them for the same things and they're not they're not unusual things they're ballards they're trash they're I mean so are our guidelines not tightened up or specific enough and do the guidelines have to be adjacent to the ordinances yeah that's a yes okay I think so that's you know if you want if you want to give them a clear Direction and say that's our requirement and then if they're going to ask for a waiver for that well then they're going to ask for
a waiver and you have to deal with it you okay they did it but I I just want to say that I thought Jason also has a good idea that and if someone wants to put together a bunch of Statistics just a habit you know in the office and say Hey you know this is what I'm just telling you this is what our our when it comes to storm water management I'm percent impervious it doesn't have to be it's not it's not required or anything you're not telling them you must to do this but this is you know what we have but that's you know that's just like a supplemental piece of information that if I don't know who wants to put that
together no but I I also do not I I really want to protect the Integrity of the planning board office and the planning board secretary who is you know complimented from Amazon to Wayfair everyone really appreciates and she it's not really her uh position to encourage or persuade or say yeah I think they might no I don't think they will that's she has to stay far away from the if I were going to do that I would assign it
to the planning board like to put together you know just say here it is you know and that's it but I I have to say from my standpoint if I happen to be talking to the attorney and they want to know what to expect I don't you know you're gonna be asked to do blah blah blah blah and they don't always believe me I think you know but okay so it is happening behind the scenes say end too because I've been observing you know being here and what what the issues that keep coming up all the time and tell them listen you know they're going to be concerned with you know where where your
trash receptacles are where your they like clean sight you know they don't like trash all over the place you know come in like that you're not gonna you know get through on one night so I do say it as well so uh Dave and Sharon for for the other boards that that you attend are planning board meetings typically for for these larger applications are they typically hour hour and a half I mean are they are are we a and and I and look I'm not offended if you say that that we go to you know
we get down in the weeds more than most boards I'm okay with that because we're such a small town that we we are going to drive past this site and so we I think we take a little more ownership in that maybe it's just me but the boards I've been to take just as long so oh okay maybe it's just a maybe it it is just part of there's like one or two out there that I've
dealt with that are probably a little less detailed but most of the ones I'm I'm at yes they are detailed so they're asking all the same kind of stuff maybe in different kinds of context different issues but you know I'm not going to name names but one coastal town that I work for much faster than us much faster things what is their Town look like uh beautiful after Hurricane Sandy ouch I know okay but then on other ones like like some of the bigger towns in in in the state like that I've worked for like
Middletown and and Bridgewater uh they go pretty much as long as us yeah and they get into the Weeds on the flip side is there an example of an ordinance SL checklist that exists like a Best in Class that you've seen that's a little bit more detailed than ours is and gets down to the nitty-gritty that we could use as an example actually I think ours is one of the best I mean I I don't do completeness in any other town but cranberry because they have like for example in Middletown and in in in in
Bridgewater they have in-house people it usually the planners um and uh in in in CBR where I work uh that that I do it sometimes but there's never big applications so if it's a big one yes I'll do it uh and in angood Cliffs where I also work um uh they do it in-house also with the plan well I shouldn't say that the planner does it but he's he's not inh housee he's out housee shouldn't use that word um so um there I don't do
it also but cranberry has one of the even but I've seen all of the checklists and we do have one of the bests this is making a good better I hope so that's what I want to do yeah and and you know or we just resign oursel to the fact that this is the process this is what it means on the planning board to do um we as longtime members I guess we could personally divise our own list to say did they talk about did they talk about
did they talk about but um I I'm no matter what list you have it's not going to necessarily prepare you for you know Cedar back of where you know of an office building on Cedar book where they're attaching three large duct works that go over the top of the roof and they haven't detailed how far apart they are how they're physically attaching to the building how they're going over the top of the building when we ask them how far apart they are they give incorrect answers on the record
until we say wait that doesn't make any sense and then they hypothetically I mean because they didn't draw it at the end of the day the engineers hadn't considered that detail I'm really curious what bill has to say because you usually catch a lot of these things I mean what's your point of view on them I think the the detailed um checklist and reviewing the standards to get you know to to fix some of the problems is is definitely going to help because there's just so often I don't even know
where the site is I don't what the neighbor is and just trying to get them to show you know the detail and hopefully once they show it they know that they have the reality is there's there's there's good good doctors bad doctors there's good Architects bad Architects and I think the biggest project since I've been on the board the biggest project that I think came was an addition and it went quicker than these smaller ones because it had a good
architect a good engineer they did a good design and and I didn't have any comments and it's when they're trying to do the minimal and kind of sneak it through is when it's it's very pains so I I think putting more detail that it's not just showing elevations it's showing elevations that show this this and this it's a site plan that shows this this door entries you know is a way to try to get them to to to show it but we have to
we have to reject people in order to make them take it seriously too um several hours later well no hopefully before it gets here which I think is the next level of whether or not you know board wants to consider is like I think Princeton has they they have what you're describing and that there's a committee that reviews it beforehand and I assume it's got members from the planning board and members from the zoning board that's usually what you have you know a couple
members so so that that last application based what you're saying right now the the um what was it biocon that we just um that we just did the resolution for would that have been deemed incomplete I think so I'm wondering if hold on I I would really not like to like name specific applications if you want to talk applications I wouldn't name so when we're talking today about complete and incomplete we have seen a number of applications would we deem them
incomplete yeah yes I think so when when would we deem them incomplete I think it's maybe the idea here is is it possible that the board can set up a subcommittee a completeness sub subcommittee that doesn't look at every application but maybe when Robin and myself feel after conferring with the chair that that we need more push to make these applicants straighten out their plans you know and and just have it referred to that committee uh have it
here I guess um and and then and then maybe push them towards what the board really wants normally how does Aesthetics but if you're not putting that writing if you're not backing that up with your ordinances and you're not backing that up with your guidelines we have to change some ordinances like you know for example if you but to me if you change the ordinances and you and you put the guidelines in alignment with the ordinances you shouldn't need that committee I think you have to have both
I mean no one here at no point has this been discussed as an alternative to improving the guidelines or the suggestion improve the I agree that's right every this has never been a part of discussion I think everyone agreed on that part this is an addition I think we just gave an example everything I gave a minute ago is an example from a unnamed recent applicant would not have been triggered by probably by ordinance changes it would have been triggered by just bad drawings and you know that that could have been spotted by you know
qualified people on the board who could have said I don't know there's not enough here for us to have a discussion on it because there's missing detail here I'd like to add things to the checklist if I could that that go towards specific situations like you know in the case of this um a buffering and Landscape plan or a lighting plan should be provided not just you know right now ordinance is really set up for buffering Landscaping lighting for parking lots and buildings that's it
it's not really set up for mechanical equipment sitting out on the lawn somewhere or even for that matter sports stuff like tennis courts or or or you know um gazebos or whatever not it's not set set up for that and maybe we should I think it can also be a phase thing um in terms of first let's get the checklist you know kind of more detailed out and see if that helps uh if it
doesn't fix it then maybe the subcommittee um I guess the only other question I have is it appropriate or not when a a member kind of reviews the drawings beforehand and sends comments or questions to the professionals you know so that that um those questions can be answered ahead of time certain people have done that to me yeah I mean I I um well first of all the
planning board is not the same as the board of adjustments so I think you have a little bit more leeway as a planning board you know and um because you're not acting as a Judicial kind of body for that so um and I think that uh if if you do it in conjunction with the um ordinance changes then you know it's more of a technical thing you know did they did they Supply this so you're really not making a judgment even the planning board really uh is not making um you're really as a board unless
you're talking about a variance you know have to judge criteria you are going through a checklist do they meet the checklist or not you know of items that are required so um I'd like to set up a some zoning committee meetings on this so then we can help and you tell me if I'm going backwards but so that we can help the the uh the township uh change the ordinance since we are the first line of defense so that that has to be discussed with the TC but I I nice to
see you yeah but I I I mean I I made it clear last time that I think I've been through enough of the agony with you all that I would advocate for it I I was GNA say I think the the um biggest um advocates for making planning board more efficient is the township committee so if we ask the township committee if they could help uh with that I think that would be a I think that would be a good yeah I'm a new YouTuber to the agony and
so I'm I could support a on and bringing that back okay all right that'd be good um but Dave to um as far as to order um the mayor would need to uh decide whether or not uh they would want to uh initiate the zoning committee that is the a mayor decision it's not necessarily um it's not the planning board it no and it's not necessarily always uh it doesn't necessarily always
happen it is a Mayor's Choice and then if that did happen then it would also go back to the township committee to decide if they wanted to make any changes in any ordinance or uh that so that all goes within that but that's why we're so happy to have you at the table um and you know see where you know see where the rest of the township committee goes and and uh Lisa whatever your uh preferences but it sounds like uh Dave
would be on board with um Love you know kind of moving that forward and I look I think it would help but I also think that at some point it's our only opportunity to get the to you know to really take it to a point of what we really need that site and every site is just that little bit different in location neighbor that sort of thing so that's why sometimes you know um depending on where it's located uh could totally change the line of questioning
but I do think uh Dave suggestion and and uh Jason and uh bill I I think it would strengthen us I'm glad to hear that we're not unusual um but uh but I think it I do let's see where it goes I mean it's you know one step at a time and then we add and layer and see if we notice Improvement and if we can get Robin home by nine o'clock let's
see does something like that like if you had to guess um how long that sort of checklist would take to address and change and I don't necessarily mean passing the ordinances but just to address and feel like we've really put in all the details that we want we would need a couple meetings three meetings I would think you know to go because the first one is really going to be just throwing stuff at the wall and see what happens but then you start getting down people start thinking about it and getting down to what they really want to
say okay okay well thank you for the discussion and um at our uh next meeting you guys if the township wouldn't mind circling back and just letting the planning board know what your what your thoughts are and you know what happens we' appreciate that okay um no need for Clos session can I have a motion to adjourn so moved second have the
second all right there we go all good