##VIDEO ID:OXRTG_yv_7Q## [Music] but it's very informal so we just want to give you the opportunity to uh present and our professionals will give you feedback our board will give you feedback about maybe obstacles that you know you might see zoning I guess it's going into zoning is that get more and we've had a lot of informal emails back so so the first thing I'll tell you is because we are formally recording um to make sure that whatever microphone you use has a red light uh and also to um introduce yourself your name how you're connected to this project and what this project is called okay great okay thank you great thank you a little closer how's that uh Mark brasy uh North Main Street um he here uh representing cranberry housing Associates for those of you don't know we've been developing affordable housing uh since the 1965 I haven't been working with cha since 65 but uh last 35 years I have been uh we have developed most uh of cranberry's affordable housing in the last 30 years um the last project we did uh was a group home for Eden Autism Services and that I will show you how that uh is really impacted by this project again this is a a group home this will be a four bedroom group home uh adjacent to the existing Eden group home that we did several years ago uh the reason that we understand we are before the zoning board is because we have a use variance and the fact we have two group homes a a each other and that is not permitted under the zoning or so I don't know if it's so um the laws changed and there they haven't been changed on cranberry's books yet but under the state statute the um you don't have that condition anymore that you you cannot have a group home next to another group home that's been eliminated by the case um that was uh stated uh in fact the the State Statute was in invalidated with respect to that condition and uh the ones regarding the maximum number of people you you you don't have to prohibit uh or I should limit it to less than six in your group home can be a maximum of 15 and the state law was actually in violation of the federal fair housing act so um cranberry's ordinance hasn't caught up to that yet um but we probably should uh amend it fact the definition of uh residences for the community uh developmentally disabled has been changed to say just um developmental disabilities so there's a couple changes in that actual definition that have occurred as well so anything a group home is to be treated as a single family residence and subject to single family residential Fulk standards yes that that we F understand that was that if you need a variance for that I mean I think you the group home itself is a permitted use in in any residential Zone I mean if it was in a commercial Zone if they wanted to do this in a commercial zone or you know uh manufacturing zone or something like that then they would need a use variance but um they don't need one if they're in a residential Zone and so if they don't meet my opinion if they don't meet the residential standards because they're lots too small or whatever it is then they are subject to a c variance which brings them if they're doing a subdiv division here I don't I still don't quite understand everything that's going on so tell us but if if we're doing a subdivision and a site plan then you would go to the planning board and then you would have C variances for any bulk standards that you're looking to vary right okay a lot line adjustment a lot and that's a subdivision yeah um if you had I saw at at one point there was different designs being kicked around options I think with the township engineer and somebody mentioned something regarding two principal uses on a lot if you're doing that then you do need to use VAR you know doing that you know so okay interesting enough either way interesting enough though DDD who licens group homes does have the same standard of but not having two group homes within I think 300 feet of each other okay well that's a state standard right yes so you have to then but they have G granted approval that was the first step without so you've got basically an outside agency appr yeah so that kind of sets the same standard So based upon the confusion of where we've gone with all the lots and everything else uh I just want to give you again the background of why we're here the the group home uh serves two purpose purposes number one is eating Autism Services I'm wearing a lot of hats so I'm here cha uh I'm also a board member of Eden Autism services and it was kind of an interesting are you chairing that board no I'm a treasurer of that board treasur of that board okay so you position yes on the board okay this year I am last year I was just a board member prior wasn't but I I was chair six five years ago okay so I've had a long uh standing relationship with them and when we had the existing house um that was a four bedroom single family home that Cha's owned from the 60s uh and that person moved out what we're going to do with this house our property manager who's also on the Eden Board said hey why don't we mixed the two affordable housing and a group home for Eden so that really worked out well uh and they're really part of the community what's nice they're part of the community but they're come somewhat isolated being all the open space surrounding it so it really works out well uh the lot that is in question is currently owned by the township it was owned you may see some documents that say weeks uh Mrs weeks and her family owned this house uh it sat many many years with her living in it without water without heat we offered assistance Town offered assistance nothing could help her she didn't couldn't use the help she finally moved out the town took the property over uh the house was demolished and the town currently owns that lot we have anou member of understanding with the town that we will develop this uh property as a group home for Eden so it provides uh the group home for Eden it also is affordable housing and since the residents will be very low income it strikes another box in the Township's requirements to meet our affordable housing needs so it's a it's a win-win for everybody uh so when we kind of developed the house we had to satisfy Eden's needs uh it's a one-story house it needs four bedrooms needs an office and needs a lot of common things so that's been worked out with them quite a bit and that's kind of their footprint they do in all their homes in uh Robinsville Washington T all over middle sex and Mercer County when we looked at this we came up with a simple design we tried to keep it simple uh unfortunately Eng engers sorry don't like simple uh and and David when he reviewed it said what about your drainage and as we got into drainage then we had a hire civil engineer to look at it and we found we had a uh a ditch a drainage ditch along the north side of the property so that started opening up a can of worms on how do we make this work and there are really three properties we're looking at one is the existing Eden home which remains as is no change the property that we're calling the weeks property maybe I'll look you have the drawings ahead of you the one that shows existing plan so the existing Eden home is the blue the yellow is the weak spot and then the pink going back is a Township owned parcel which we uh attached a a key plan of that it's flag lot that the town owns now cha owned it about 10 years ago or 30 years ago and just gave it to the town I'm going to get very complicated but there's a lot of history so the the town or cha own this uh T lot in the back when four seasons was developed they needed access for drainage across the cha property so cha said I tell you what we'll make you a deal we'll give you the easement for drainage but the property to the rear which was called pin OES you demolish that at your expense you bring sewer and water to our house and to the week's house so that's the deal that was struck with the developer Four Seasons and then since we didn't have a property in the back we said to the tan will'll give you the the old pin oaks tal lot so the property pink and if you want to look at the whole thing it's a big T lot which is now just open space the property to the South would you refer to the pink lot as a tal lot or a flag lot it's a flag lot but it's in the shape of a te so it really is a t lot okay go it goes beyond that map yes I just wanted to make sure we're talking about the same piece of property yeah so that's the one little little drawing which is the old drawing which shows the t comes up here and goes in both directions so I'm saying gets very complicat complicated as we go through it so th those are the three lots in question the town owns the pink lot the town owns uh the yellow lot and those lots were never merged they're separate Lots correct okay correct now we are having our surveyor do new survey to to try to accomplish this subdivision consolidation that we we're talking about right now there are three separate Lots owned by the town okay uh there is also just complicated things a little bit CJ does not own the yellow lot no not yet okay the memo of understanding says when we're ready to file for building proog the lot will be transfer okay which is the way all our agreements have worked in the past okay and and you're you may be getting to this you're going to be acquiring part of the pink lot too that's that's that's why we're we doing a resubdivision okay right so the idea is in order to make the site plan work because of the drainage and circulation and parking we need more property so the intent is to take this little piece of the we're calling it The Pino slot subdividing that from the rear property and then consolidating that with the front property so I hope that's a little clear that's why we tried to color code it to at least show the different pieces that coming sure just beyond the blue you can see the existing driveway extends slightly yes is that lot that's a Township lot but is that going to be part of this or that it's just kind of an existing little piece of black top or stone that that exists there but to to just little more complicated we do have an easement through the blue lot to the pink lot that exists with the blue so that the town can have access to the property which they never go to but when we had that subdivision that's in there as well just to give you all the little parts and pieces so that that's why we're still maintaining that that access which also becomes access to our we'll call it the yellow property so with all that said What's the total acreage if you add everything up we're it's less than a half acre it's very small lot so the it's a quarter of an acre for the uh yellow oh okay and that's why we have all the bulk f es that we need uh let's see what else I think that's kind of how we got to the lot reconfiguration so again it'll be the subdivision the consolidation for cha owned by the township as far as application goes and then cha will get that when we ready to start construction do do you plan to consolidate your your Lots never they're always going to be separate when you go with mortgages if we talk to two Banks definitely not okay the one other aspect I forgot to mention when you look at the aerial the property to the north is owned by CH also so neighbors are cha to the north township open space to the South township open space to the west and we have one neighbor in Four Seasons besides Four Season themselves and coincidentally F at the owner of that property uh his daughter is also a board member of CJ so we know we have that neighbor that is fine with it and honestly all of four seasons was thrilled when this house was torn down because it was really a derel dilapidated house so it's an improvement to the neighborhood as well Mark will you continue the easement out to the roadway there through the through the blue lot yeah we have to that's in our deed yeah so it the pink lot will still have access to the road yes they also have access in the back but I don't know if that's actually a real it's it's to a paper street right no that you have the book behind it okay on the west yeah that's one reason the old pin o development was ripped down because we just couldn't keep maintaining it we had no septic right okay y okay okay that's going to be a lot to unpack from one perspective but then let's let's see what you plan on doing on your mixed fro Loop lot right so what we have in the lot U next time we BL and I didn't mean that in a negative way I just mean those are the colors of fruit Lo so now the one that shows the actual site plan uh we have the single story home in the front of the lot and the parking and I I'll explain the parking a little bit as well so there are two parking spaces on the Eden lot we'll call it the old Eden lot and then we have the six parking spaces uh excuse me seven parking spaces to the rear and the issue with the amount of vehicles we have is turn shift turnover so Eden's uh dsps or direct service professionals 24 hours are there so we need cars come in staff shift change cars go out so you'll never see all these nine cars here at any one time but we need that provide that parking space for the shift turnover okay we have that we have a little bit of open space in the basic four bedroom house U that is shown on the architectural floor PS again one of the the niceties of this location is the walking trail the open space the fact we have the sidewalk goes into town uh just a lot of real positives for Eden from the an institution side of it I think the speed limit on that road is also it's I think 35 25 or 35 35 I believe so how many employees you're talking then umry you said you have seven spaces but how many employees are going to be needed you said there's going to be people to help take care sh of well they they usually have two staff members and then you have the shift change so two times two really is what you're saying that's four four and then again a maintenance guy show up and everything else because we don't really want to park on the street so I just need a little bit of overflow but it'll be shared parking between the two buildings oh yes yes yeah okay but there's no offices or anything in this thing it's just well there's one small office for staff members there is okay both houses have that and theyh provide support for the people that live there yes yeah they're not nurses or but they're trained for that they're their terminology DSP direct service professionals okay 24 yes 24 hours a day and there's an overnight shift people yes stay overnight to help exactly in both houses both houses yep operation is really the same for both houses also to talk group homes a little bit that another huge change uh with the state is that group homes can be no larger than four people to be licensed by ddb and this sort of give you a little history of that too people are institutionalized and this big institution where people just were there it doesn't work and the state has recognized it federally have recognized it uh and now the group home is is a way to go to really have people part of the community they're they're they're people so when you say no larger than four that says that that can't be expanded you couldn't put a second story you couldn't add more even if we wanted to the lot was twice as big by DDD regs four people maximum okay yes okay that goes to a question I had which is then each bedroom has just one bed correct okay that's another change where some of our other eaten houses have two Two Fellas or or two people sharing a room we don't do Eden doesn't do it that way anymore drainage I think uh I don't really have any comments I think you have this wonderful more than I need so we we the property is small enough where St management rules really don't affect uh this project uh and but they were nice enough to give me an idea of what the increase in will be in its minor very minor uh what about the uh adjacent to the creek any R well there there is what I think is and I haven't haven't seen this yet but uh I believe it's an ordinary Wetland that's located yes in a creek that goes from the street going running back and they have it delineated on the plan but I did ask you to actually do a call out as part of my so that I know what it is you know and then maybe give me information on who actually delineated it by who at this particular date you know okay yeah that all be in dpk did all that yes there is there is a wetland adjacent that really brought on a lot of the change to have to decide to buy the other part the pink line because they didn't want to go close to the Wetland they could have gone to the D and even piped it maybe but um it would have taken a long time and I think CH decided they didn't want to go you know it would have been an more of an intense application it's a it's a drainage ditch yeah yeah Orek I wouldn't even call it a drainage it's it's a ditch it's an ordinary Wetland which which means you can destroy it if you want to if it's under an acre uh but you got to go through the perits and they don't want to do it which is fine they have an alternative there then there'll be no new proposed drainage structures or anything like that everything is all going to go directly off the property and then cor right will Township still have access to the back of Yes again that access easement is in the deed of the blue lot but now that we add the pink to it do that we would have to create the same access easement through that lot right it's walking only is about it yeah that's why it's adjacent to the other open space lot that township owns that is really wet that's one reason we took the Pino property down really so essentially it's all open space correct I I think that's correct it's open space it's right it's right against right adjacent um Can Trail correct is it delineated as open space or just Township property I actually don't know the the details of that okay yeah I don't know the details of that make sure you you need to check to see if it's in your your R Green Acres open space list because if it is then you have to go you have to you have to get it removed you have to get use it for they call it a diversion from from the uh uh resource inventory let oh yeah these are things we want to know now though sure yeah yeah there's nothing back there try to use common sense here if you look now to try to walk through there is a mess right so you have yeah so you have to be careful using words like Farm preservation or open space or just unusable Township property because it is so wet so we'll just we'll we'll keep that open but but we would really need to know if it had a tag um from the township standpoint or our s point that would it would just inhibit us from from moving forward if if we found that out later I don't know if it's this attorney zoning board attorney or Township attorney we answer that question really the township attorney should you go on the states D website and find it if I can help there should be a document that's held at the clerk's office that is the open space inventory for Green Acres Liz sorry EC should also know if that is sweetlands huh yeah clarification on what that property is whether it's Wetlands or non-usable property or preserved or open space that would be something that we would want to know as well yeah but I guess my point is the town should be making that assessment and decision not the applicant conflict of interest well the app um we're talking about the same thing but the applicant can't make the decision but they they still need to do their due diligence do their due diligence and figure out what it is but not for the Township's land I think that the town should be doing that as the township professionals should be doing that sure to the clerk it's a trip to the clerk's office that's it okay but I guess I see it as a step further is is it a treed space that you know if this could have some use to the town and there's that there would ever be a need to access it then an easement should be created if there is if it's definitely 100% not going to be usable by the town then why bother with the easement I think you should do the easan anyway just just in case there may be some future reason that we don't know just to go cut the grass all right yeah I think that's why the the easement on the front lot was done the other reason I was asking too is it's pretty narrow it's only you know it's one way street necessarily that if there was a use for that land then ideally you'd make it a 24 foot wide and you would do whatever you needed to do to make that access B but I do think it is just for the mowers to get back there according to New York NJ Geo web it's Wetlands I have it up yeah the te the top of the te not the not the long not the long one okay right thanks Liz and it doesn't appear to be on the Rossy it's good to double check that though but it doesn't appear because sometimes blocks and lots change and they're not changed on the wrong seene yeah just this this so much Discovery Mark I I'm glad I had the history of what went on before but this is nice and simple it gotten very complex but you have to do it right really said it just helps us figure out which path we use to to move forward right that's okay you want my whole list time anything else to present to us other than loc is there anything else other information to give us or can I release sure no yes absolutely when we when we go to zoning or planning board we'll have a representative from cha here as well if you feel we need a Julie to come to testify we'll have that but we'll talk between then and now yeah because again we we're nonprofit and you know we can't make money out of Sky any place so the more the less professionals we have the better we like it we we absolutely uh understand that um so have a seat okay settle in turn your mic off and we'll uh and and we'll let our H professionals give their feedback and then we'll let our board and our Township committee representative our environmental commission um we'll just you know kind of Round Table um also it's not a a oneperson go it's more of a conversation so if you hear something and want to uh time and uh feel free okay all right we're gonna start with Andrew because there is a lot of parking shared parking um you know and again the road is a 35 M an hour road but it is a you know there is an entrance uh out and a curb and things like that so we're gonna we're gonna let Andrew uh give us some feedback on that okay and again this is informational um we're trying to get this application so that you can bring it to the board and as clean as possible that's what the DRC is here for so I I put my list together which obviously overlaps with some of the other lips lists I will bring things up um but they're partially addressed by earlier conversation um there's an existing driveway uh obviously it has to be accessed by multiple Lots my question is there's a sign at the driveway that says pin oaks and cranbery Old cranbery Road is it a public road is it just a access he's is that public sign mean anything because P again is really the history of pin oaks being in the back of the property that's why we left the sign and there was a sign there that for that access probably existed quite a while 30 40 years ago yes but it's not a public right we and this is a research that you've probably already done I didn't know when I looked at the plans and visited the site so okay and there will be a continual cross access that will allow each of the lots to yes be accessed as needed if the wetlands doesn't need to be access that's fine too um the width of the road as was mentioned is 14.6 between the parallel parking and what's proposed that's narrow for a roadway it's not a public roadway it's a driveway so it's not really uh held to roadway standards um one thing I would note at the intersection with old cranberry it does narrow I know it's not a roadway but my concern is that if a car can't get in if a car is waiting to get out then the car might be on the road it's a low volume Road um it's 25 miles an hour um that may not be be a problem um because there's going to be a lot of gaps cars won't be waiting a long time to get out on the road my initial thought as a traffic engineer was well make sure it's wide enough so that you can get in and get out so the car getting in doesn't get blocked by a car coming out say there's a van or something that wants to get in and the car can't see around the van then who goes um but it's a driveway it's not a public road so uh again low volume low speed I'm just bringing up my thoughts not exactly sure how to solve it um and there's a lot of information on this property too so just throwing that out um site triangle uh always but Andrew what you're saying is just as a as a thought if the site would allow it a little more room for a car to get in and out simultaneously could be could be a safety positive it would be a safety POS not necessarily but could be a could be positive if cars are trying to get in and out at the same time and I'm not sure how much widening would be necessary because it does have wide radius at that location but the sign is right at the corner there there's mailboxes there's also a tree which looks like a half Al live tree it's not in the greatest shape there those things would have to be looked at if the entrance part of that uh driveway I'll call it a driveway uh were to be widened a little bit again you're going gr and Paving for the back parking so this would could be part of that but again I'm not looking to complicate the application but it could be help the safety at the access if you could look at it for safety vehicles that makes sense too the fire fire trucks and all of that that makes sense too it's not a deep lot in any fire truck would probably fight it right from the road they wouldn't go in between two buildings to fight this fire they they can probably access right from the road even the back of the property likely they could drag a hose around back pretty much like a single family house it's a single family house forens of purposes right a fire engine wouldn't go in a single family driveway and pull next to a building they' bring their hoses from the road and there is a fire hydrant I notic just down the road so that that's where the would would come from so that all makes sense um again add sight triangles is line on the plan just to make sure that nothing gets in that site triangle you don't want trees or signs or whatever a mailbox a post those are okay are we going to get your notes I could send you my notes rather than you trying okay just so we capture everything certainly right um parking um again this is a group home um it was noted that it would be held to residential stand you're exceeding resal standards based on the number of parkes you have if it were a single family home and a bedroom number the parking is really based on the operations here correct and your shift will be very important as to determine you know if you have three or four employees and there's seven spaces that allows the full turnover with an extra space I don't see a handicap parking space again if you're applying the RSI standards or a single family home you don't put necessarily a handicapped parking space uh at this location um you should I guess make um Provisions for access to the building should somebody it is handicapped accessible the building I'm sure that's something you look at all the time yes because one I one thing I didn't mention I'll I'll jump into that one thing that Eden uh has been doing on all their group homes is age in place okay that's extremely important and Eden is one of the leaders in that field for for folks with autism it's the AG in place uh we have a day Center uh in uh Plainsboro at sharks Crossing which was designed specifically for aging uh individuals so that is number one every that that's what another reason it's a one story and even to jump aside in the existing three bedroom there is a provision to put a an elevator in should we have to age in place the folks that live in that house so it's extremely important okay another uh thought does that mean there will be handicap parking or no no because the only people are parking are staff but like members come visit drop people are in a wheelchair dropping them off picking them up to take them so a doctor appointment or whatever it seems like there should be some type of provision I'm not sure it's a code issue or a site plan issue but it seems logical that there should be something well we do have the luxury of the two parking spaces at the existing Eden house which would satisfy uh barer free parking and actually the eastmost parking space in that row of parking could be handicap accessible if that sidewalk were extended out to the pavement there that just might be an easy extension for easy access to the the other thing that's nice about providing it is that if there's some event where all the families are there and there staff there and all the spots are full the handicap spot always gives you a place to do the K turning turn around just thought and while we just brought up the parallel uh parking next to the existing building the roadway is narrow how will these vehicles turn around currently they can cross the road they have plenty of space to go back and forth it again you see there's seven cars shown in the seven parking spaces and there's two cars that might not be the condition where all these spaces are taken so they can pull down use a space and back up but that's something that should be considered and put into testimony okay because right now the way I'm looking at it it's every space is filled and how do they then make their movement in a narrow driveway that's not 24 feet wide it's a little bit more difficult to maneuver but if a space is open that becomes the turning around also the laws of laziness as far as I don't know if that's a real law but if you're right there would you just turn around if there was space available and and would that be safe uh I had a note to discourage on street parking again there's a band in the road and there's a lot of bushes and trees and certainly by providing more parking than you have employees I don't think the residents need cars and that's one thing that you should point out too that it's not the residents who will be parking there it's just the employees and you know your employee number so it doesn't look like any of the Overflow parking would have to go out to the road based on two employees and all these spaces available for them um trash location is it just like a single family home they're going to put it in a single family home okay uh also sidewalk is one thing um to so there is sidewalk that comes up to the property on the North side it ends it's I guess from the cha property the the family correct Town H Town Homes there and then there is the trail on the south side of the property this this property would be the disconnect in between that trail and the sidewalk and my thought is some way and I don't know if that's a cha thing to do or if it's a Township thing to do to connect those but interconnected across this property would make a lot of sense it would also connect this property with the sidewalk going up to the North and the crosswalks and the retail up that way as well as the Park trails to the South and I don't know that you would necessarily need to connect that into the property cuz they they could use the driveway as and that's a pave driveway not uh corre Stone so would it would be a low volume driveway that I think they could use that rather than having more impervious on site more construction work for the building but I really think across the frontage makes sense um trash location those for my comments okay traffic wise Andrew thanks so much um that's really helpful that was really something that we wanted you to look at given um you know given the density of the the parking so very helpful question just you know with what you brought up I I think the sidewalk is a great idea just like you said you know they like this location so that the alans can walk to town but also it really makes the pins more ible to the town you know as a a feature for the town I don't know if it's beyond your property line who has the right to do it I don't know legally how that works um well if it's in Cranberry right of way and along the roadway there is RightWay there so it can connect within the roadway RightWay right but I know I don't know if they can build on it or the town has to build it you know what I mean who physically because they can't well if I could say something the planning board does have the ability to require it as part of a site plan um but they may not because of the nature of this type of application and it could be put in some Grant application in the future for Road jobs and and be built by the town if that's what they feel they can do the town the town can do I the existing I think pin it looks like there snow on but looks like it's black top but it would just be nice just to and it's further uh South so it has to go a little bit little bit to connect I 20 30 40 feet I have no idea but it would be really I mean a really nice asset to connect so is the is the way it is now that when you go uh in front of the affordable housing that has the sidewalk then there's the road that uh that goes into the parking area behind that housing yes then you go over and there's no connectivity between that last uh end of sidewalk to the pin o Trail is that right I'm not Sor I don't even know where the pin o Trail is pin Trail just comes and then occurs right before this property across the street a lot of the residents uh from the Eden house use the Pino Trail it's it's far enough off of uh old Cranberry Road that it's safe but the Pino Trail is just a walking trail a small bit of bitchman a small like dying it just kind of dies into the street into nowhere okay well and and that may be something the the township would want to you know connect but but that's why we're here you know because we're you know we can just make it uh better and more usable for everyone yeah sure um I I just wanted to share this one piece with you because I'm I'm vaguely remembering there is a um there is a uh a utility Road maybe it was it was gravel and it has been sort of left to return back to Nature and I feel like it's in part of this area that we're talking about maybe past the act the the currently existing Eden house no that is the the Pino driveway that's just what it is it was an Old Stone driveway that went to the rear Old Stone driveway is there is there nothing just parallel to the actual oil cranber I just remember people from The Parks Commission sort of saying why is the township not servicing that and it was not part it was never supposed to be a permanent Road or a foot path or anything of that sort I think you're talking about further south is it further south yeah okay all right perfect then we're good thank you in that Pin Oaks Trail you'll notice the next time you drive by it because I know you will now that we've had this conversation but at the end of it there's a you know there's a a parking area you know right before the bridge that's still in our property and that was recently done up that parking area yeah and they did a lot of drainage on that road as well they pulled out the old drains put in new drainage and then yes and it helped with um we brought up this issue of the sign and I'm looking at it right now in the picture are were you making the suggestion um Andrew that that sign go away or I wasn't necessarily making the suggestion it go away I was asking more since it's there does it mean that there's some kind of public other than an easement it looks like it's more of a public RightWay based on a street sign it looks like a public street sign but it's it's really a driveway and maybe that's a thought too to maybe change it from what looks like a street sign to take it down where I mean it will have a street address rather than a street sign if it's the whole it's part of the history of Cramer and Pino and maybe that might be a good reason to keep it there because it is a dual dual multiple access um easement name we we do a lot of conjecture and figure out what could go wrong it may if it hasn't gone wrong yet if it hasn't been a problem yet then then then we won't create that problem but that's what this board does we just sort of look at what possible the what yeah sure thank you Mr hoder okay thank you um you're welcome a lot of the items that that I'm going to talk about have already been said so I'll go quickly um you said that you're going to have you're having a new survey done that's good so that surveyor will probably also do the subdivision math correct the purpose these are all current surveys but one we need is for the the T and the subdivision consolidation okay so so that'll have to be submitted as part of the application going in so we know what the meets and Bounds are how how many acres are in this lot how many are in the other lot Etc and so on um survey references should be be provided on the uh on the call years map you have it on your map as the architect where you got the survey but now all that probably will change and all that should be put on all the maps Okay so I'll give I'll give you stuff too um the Wetland areas I think I said before should be labeled uh you have one through eight uh it should be you know label usually what you see is you see U ordinary Wetland deled on June 2nd 1922 uh and uh you know um by coers engineering whoever you know what it's going to be uh and then that that note should be on on on all the maps so you know what they are uh there should be a limited disturbance because we want to make sure that that the edge the back of your building doesn't run over into the creek and the contractors aren't aren't digging up the areas that are part of that ordinary Wetland which you said you're going to leave alone as part of the planning process so you know that should be put on the plan can I interrupt one second I think Julie was running calculat we may need soil conservation service I don't know if you have that in your notes no I don't so we may it could be yeah usually it's 5,000 square F feet but very close now okay um your sewer looks like your sewer connection is a 6inch sewer connection you probably only need a four for whatever reason they put a bigger one in so you they should just change the detail so that there's a reducer okay you know uh and that should probably be a eccentric reducer not a concentric reducer right so the the bottom flows continue right as opposed to up where they where we Clogg the pipe yeah where they clog the pipe right okay and then you know there's going to have to be details like pavement and and any any retaining walls or stabilization details or whatever like normal side plan stuff and uh that's really all I have because I actually did talk to Mark a lot about this previously and I did one completeness review which U I guess helped explode this whole thing to make it what it is today which is good and bad um but um so you're going to have to come back in and do one last completeness review right and we'll I guess send you now to the planning board um uh which will probably make it a little easier so all I have Madame chairperson thank you Dave Liss um I just have a couple things I wanted to comment on just to actually the DRC because we don't talk a lot about affordable housing and I don't handle cranberries affordable housing but but I just wanted to make everyone aware of a few things that um were alluded to but I just want people to understand and one is that a group home obviously counts towards your meeting your affordable housing obligation and the unit of credit is by the bedroom so this wouldn't be one credit that you you know even though it's one home it's by the bedroom four bedrooms you'd get four credits and that for that holds for fourth round yes okay and the one thing also a couple things one is that you have a requirement that 133% of your units that are meeting your affordable housing have to be very low and that's often difficult a difficult requirement 13% have to be very low income very low so which means they're making you know the residents are making less than 30% of the area median income it's a difficult thing to meet and a lot of developers don't want to have those types of units because you don't make a lot of income off it um so a nice thing that um this project would provide the other thing to note is one um new aspect of the fourth round rules um to much to most municipalities to grin or irritation is they got rid of um in the past few rounds you could get rental bonus credits so you know you Pro provide a rental unit you get one unit uh in addition you know it was sort of an incentive to build rental housing they got rid of that but they did keep some bonus credits for certain types of Housing and and luckily for cranberry Supportive Housing is one of those um so you would be getting I mean in you know this is subject to a whole bunch of other factors but in a in a sort of vacuum Not only would you be potentially you potentially would be getting the four for the four bedrooms plus four rental bonuses not rental bonuses special needs housing bonuses so this project potentially could provide eight credits towards meeting the um Township's fourth round obligation okay um the couple just interrupt in our mou with the town that 15 uh or the percentage for low very low income is in that so the town already thought about getting that without knowing that it would be in the fourth round so that is in there yeah so town is protected and another bonus is it's going to be forever because cha only does affordable housing so we couldn't make this a for-profit project and lose that because you have the 30-year right guarantees as well so there's a lot of huge benefits 40 years yeah it's now even more um a couple of things that I just had questions for is is I know we talked about the parking area I know a lot of times at these types of facilities there's a van you know Associated so we will a parking lot be able to accommodate the van and the van turning okay yeah what the van is used uh a lot of our uh residents do have jobs okay employment it's really key for our residents so that's why the van is used some will be for doctors and other things like that but the van or going to a day Center which we have one on Old Trenton Road is also key is that van kept on site or is that shared between the different uh sites transi okay um one thing I wanted to note about the trail and I I you know I'm this is looking at Google Street View I just want to note there are some old growth trees that are seem seemingly along that area and I I just you know think there it adds some amance to that area of the town and so you know while a trail would be nice it would be nice to if we could be accommodated without removing trees removing some of the older trees I just want to make that note um and then finally I know I'm I'm just again looking at Google Street View of the existing group home and I think one thing that we would typically ask is for some additional Landscaping you know along the street Frontage just because you do want these to appear to look like single family homes and not institutional so to speak and so I think um any additional Landscaping along Old Cranberry Road would be a nice um aspect of the Native variety the native variety and deer resistant um but aside from that I really don't have any other comments no I think those are all good thanks you said Trail you sidewalk SL Trail right yes I'm sorry along the frontage yeah and and I mean I actually even was there are some big trees I was actually also think well maybe you know if the township owns the land behind it maybe there's a you know C circum you know whatever but that might get confusing but in any event I just it is a nice sort of rural area for right now and so I wouldn't want that to be sacrificed okay thank you do we know if that trail that's there is Stone is it a gravel or is it paved could tell s it looks like it's the Pino Trail is is uh it is paved but it's it's yeah it's like a bitchman almost it's so right yeah I was on it I was on it like a month ago app like they did the old fashioned roads in the 50s is that something that could be done in front of I'm asking maybe Dave if that could be continued from pin oaks across to where the concrete is then it's maybe more flexible and won't damage roots and could be a better method rather than Paving or even concrete needs a lot more care I I would I would volley that to mark from the standpoint of given the home and the uh support that it provides would that be welcome to have a a a walkth through do you know what I mean would it be welcome to have a a sidewalk right in front of I don't I don't see any all of our group homes are in neighborhoods all throughout so to make it part of the community if that's a benefit okay my my concern is that if we're going to do it we need to do it so it is full barrier free yeah I I do see um people I I'm on that side of town I do see a lot of people walking their dogs and they'll they have to they do go out in the street then they go get back on the trail and then I mean it is a a low impact road so I mean it could be a nice caveat to to add that to to Mr Giddings uh Point as long as it doesn't negatively impact the the home right uh we do like our continuous walking yes and Swinging people out in the street with a dog or a stroller probably not the best idea okay do you have anything on the uh connection or uh of these um properties we we're on he's on the right path here to I me I think I already made my comments basically at the beginning so I I don't really have any anything more no you don't have to I just want to make sure okay it's okay uh Aman we're um Township committee where's where are you at I asked I think most of my questions and my last question was one you asked just now whether it be welcomed traffic or not in front of your property but thank you everything has been quite yeah quite easy to follow thank you we're going to let our uh our subre from the EC uh step in thank you for coming absolutely um so to lizz's point about the trees um the older trees um leads to sight disturbance so it is a heavily looks like from the overview shot here so site disturbance Wildlife disturbance um the township uh environmental resource inventory maybe taking a look at that and seeing um what's in there and what might be disturbed um I don't think there should be much concern um but just to have a look at it I think might be good for your point um you answered my question about the drainage structure and new drainage structures are going in on the property um the only other thing I might think of is is the vehicles um in consideration of idling time maybe like a no idling zone or I don't know if there's going to be any of that going on but if it's a two like s like a single family home it wouldn't be something that would be exactly you know that that so now I don't think that there would be any but I would take a look at the wildlife and you know the en environmental resource inventory that the town should have to see what is in the area and what might be disturbed and go from there thank you Fair Point yeah um Mr Gs um so from an architectural standpoint I guess there's a careful B some thoughts I had looking at it kind of want to push it away from the road more because the bedroom windows are facing are so close to the street um also kind of I think because they both are are Eden houses I imagine a staff could be going across from one to the other it' be nice if the doors front doors aligned um as well it seems like you could move the door with the floor plan all the way down to the right of the porch and push the building back a little bit just creates a little you know that almost could be a crosswalk area safety area it'd be nice if the two spaces out front were visitor only or or loading unloading uh so that I drove by there there's a lot of car didn't look as As Nice whereas if all the staff and the van and everything has to park in the back um that also makes it safer because more room for the two-way traffic somebody can you know you know pass each other in that area um you know to that extent you know it seems like we're redrawing property lines anyway so I would Advocate the town giving more land as needed to make the parking lot work to make the building location work the best if it's another 10 feet or 15 feet and it makes things work better or nicer for the occupants where there's a little bit more space between the deck and the the parking area you know I think it would be nice you know if the town is open to that to make it as nice as possible for the residents uh lighting thinking of just keeping lighting as minimal as as possible you know the warmer light not the daylight type lights um you know for the residents as well as the neighbors and timers all all of that type of stuff the tree or seems like it's going to hit you pretty hard I would imagine because you're really clearing out a lot trees so I guess the ordinance is more than six inches you got to replace it with X um knowing that you're on a tight budget and everything I would Advocate even if it's less than standards to have more Landscaping that are smaller caliber that are cheaper to plant you know that you know if there's any relief in that but with the idea that in 20 years this looks really nice with the Landscaping you know um the part of me wants to see as individual homes part of me wants say you know what they got the same driveway they're part of the same complex let them be unified and think about the landscaping and the trees across the front and the sidewalk connecting between the two all kind of achieving that um the a minor thing oh minor thing like trash is this just just like a regular house that's gets pulled out out once or twice a week yes yeah so where does that go on the site plan and you know where are the condensers screening that type of stuff um the bedroom in the front right now have I definitely think you want the windows in the front but right now the plans have for the for the front bedrooms have two large double set of windows on both sides so that the the bed is underneath the window which I don't think you want so I would Advocate deleting the first windows on each North and South elevation rotating your bed and keeping keep by keeping the windows on the street street side uh we're going to to single windows we just looking at the design of of all that for the occupants as well as how the house looks on the street and I guess signage there is there going to be even signage or is it just treating just Street numbers single family house for all intense purposes yep very good nice project okay um I have nothing um I think it uh I really think that if you come before the planning board we will want to see like a full Landscaping we want to see that this looks like any other house anywhere else which I know is also your goal um all the feedback that you've been given is is on an advisory level so just you know incorporate it we understand that you have constraints as well um financially and um you know the the rules that you have for the for the home so um I I think it's uh I think it's going to look very nice but I do agree with Mr Giddings that if you from a if you can move it back a little bit keep it off the street just from a sound standpoint that's Kinder but you're you have your own constraints but these are the kind of questions that either board you know would would be asking they they will want to see screening around any bit of equipment uh air conditioning that sort of thing from a safety standpoint and from an aesthetic standpoint uh and also uh we we seem to be very interested in where you're going to keep your trash can whether it's you know is it screen you know is there a is there a a half fence is there something where will the recycling bin go where will the wheelie bin go uh and how does that access the street just just from an aesthetic standpoint that you know it's not just going to sit on the corner of this beautiful home I believe every all the trash is kept inside like everybody else everyone else but let me confirm it again Gore who's director of real estate will be here to testify can answer a lot of those functional questions yes get question go right so our goal our goal is to prepare you so you can prepare your professionals so we can use less of their time we have found that people that do come to the DRC meeting have a much easier and we all have a much easier night uh when you know when we all get together it's good that environmental has uh heard what you have to say and that you know our uh Township committee now it's on board so it's just a really I really do applaud you for coming here and just having the conversation it's I think it's helpful to everyone it can always be better I mean we've been in the business design business long enough you can another pair of eyes can at least make a little bit better well I think you have to have some humility to accept that pair of eyes and look we've had a lot of Architects in front of us they're not all as accommodating as you are so uh so that's really good after developing affordable housing and cranberry with neighbors you have to be you have to be I understand absolutely I will ask I was going to say mayor former mayor uh for the other land to take more land which I think is a great idea because we could push it back I just have that I'll just put that as a note for myself I think it's something that we have to discuss but would cha take on the respon would you be happy to take on the responsibility of the Mowing and the processing of whatever the idea is to take more of that tea portion of that te just push it back a little bit more so we can get the house back and the parking back yeah and then you'd push everything the parking everything would just everything Mo back a little bit more you you designed it this way given the land that you had in front of you right right right so I have it for myself here as a note that we will discuss that okay um and you would not want or do would you see that cha would prefer to you what if cha had the option of the whole bit that wouldn't want the whole bit because we made that back to the town we don't want it back it's an ongoing maintenance cost so we don't need that sure cost and liability to have that Land one comment about the expansion making it larger in any way just keep an eye on the Storm management rules that you're not going more than an acre of disturbance or more than a quarter acre of more impervious U so you don't have to do detention basins and drainage and all that stuff because that could get very expensive quick question that might be upper that might be an upper limit for you okay that's a good point and it's uglier along that lines you know the left hand of this looks like you're gonna have to do a whole new driveway anyway the left side of it seems all like extra impervia that's that's kind of wasted and it could be cleaned up you know just made into a straight line you know cleaned up when you're making the new driveway pretty easily without the cost and then you could also reduce that to reduce your impervious I also wonder if you do provide the handicap spot which would give you the K turn space if you could make the area behind the car is narrower or not it looks I can't looks pretty wide usually you only need 25 feet it looks more than that um if the cars are 20 feet long I don't know maybe it's not but just ways to cut or even your k- turn area it could be 10 fet wide rather than looks like it's about 20 feet wide ways to cut down your impervious and your cost as well maybe cutting down less trees just to follow up on the driveway um I like your idea of making the whole driveway new since they're going in and Paving that back section especially the front section looks a little broken and kind of wanders around that said it's a different lot it's cha lot but does that mean a separate application I'm not sure what the implication but it makes it sense that the driveway go in as one consistent driveway but it is across another lot so now you're be making improvements on another lot just a thought but this could be a mini you know a long-term goal or long-term you know long-term process so or I guess if you're just repaving the existing lot on the one it's just a regular driveway project right and you straighten it out and then this lot is the application so actually I have a p practical question if when this comes before the board if your ownership of the lot is contingent upon a building permit is that I think what you said that's when the lot transfer I mean the agreement's in place we are getting the lot okay I'm just just when do we get is the township uh is that the township an applicant in this situation yes Township is listed as the applicant okay so or I'm sorry CH is the applicant but T is the owner is the owner okay got it CH is really the contract yes got it contract person yes okay and then um as far as the sidewalk goes there may be something the township could apply for for um to get sidewalk or maybe that's something that can be done during your construction but just keep that in the in mind uh for the process as I look at the Google view it does seem to Mr getting's point it does seem natural to keep that going so we'll just keep that in the mix I mean we don't want to we can always show it as future and the future could be tomorrow it could be whenever we can fund it so yeah because I know for our other applications for our warehouses and things like that there's a New Jersey law insistance on connectivity for those sidewalks and ADA compliance and anytime an applicant comes before us and makes a new application they have to add sidewalks and that sort of thing so I would just keep that in the mix other than that I I don't have anything else I think it's it's progressing nicely um look if it was easy would already be done thank you Mr hoder I I but it'll be a better project no no but I I do remember you coming before the township Committee in maybe 2020 2021 so this has been this has been a a work in progress for a long time so I think it'll be uh wonderful for uh those fortunate enough to be um part of it I think it's a good start for the Eden house so um good luck with h your list of homework thank you well we'll get the other homework and then David knows our engineer who does quite well and does good and do you have any other questions for no I think the biggest thing in uh if you'd like me to come to a TC meeting to to talk about this lot and how much of this other lot and again go through that history lot be happy to do that might thank you I appreciate that yeah so I hold on one I think it's a conversation yeah I think it's more of a conversation all right great good thank you you're welcome we good uh we will close uh we have no other applications so we will close thank Robin