--------- Are we? Oh, hey. Well, welcome to uh Sunday, February 1st Township Committee budget meeting. If you're uh willing and able, please rise for the pledge of allegiance >> to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it
stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> And we move on to the open public meeting statement pursuant to the open public meetings act. Not news of this meeting was sent to the cranberry press trend times and home news on January
9th, 2026. Posted on the township's website and sent to those who requested a copy of this notice. We'll move on to roll call. Mr. Christopher >> here. >> Mrs. Eladawi >> here. Dr. Rogers >> here. Mr. Scott is currently absent and mayor can >> here.
>> Thank you. >> First item on the agenda just quickly salary pool. Um I discussed this with the personnel subcommittee. Uh the uh pool for this year is a little bit less than it was last year. It's 3 and a half% this year. That's based on cost of
living adjustment which is what we always go by. Um, I have already, um, given the employees their increase due to the fact that premium sharing went up so much. Some people are actually coming home net less than they did last year.
So, to be fair, we gave them the increase January 1st. So, I just wanted to let everyone know. Um, and that'll go in the minutes. So if there's any question from pensions about why it's a three and a half% pool.
>> Could we ask a question about that? Uh or do we ask it later? I'm just >> You can ask a question. Personnel pool is everyone like you know including part-time people beside okay like like the rec director and
>> correct correct pool is for any employee that is not contractual or is not paid for out of the trust fund. So construction is not included in that. Fire official and assistant fire official are not included in that. Although they they did get three and a half but that's not part of the tax base
comes out of their money. So that like so if we hire someone for the wreck camp or something like that that >> No, rec camp is completely different. That's contractual. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. >> Not contractual. Okay. Got it.
>> Um next is police. So that would be the chief. We're going to go over his capital and discuss um a potential I'm going to call it an SRO, although that's not what they called it. Um but but we're just going to go over that briefly after we go through capital.
>> Good morning everyone. >> Good morning. That's request vehicles. We did lose two vehicles. >> Oh, you didn't yell at me. >> Um, we um we did lose two vehicles last
year. One was from an accident. Um although all things being said, we recouped pretty we will re recoup pretty good amount. So, we'll be able to replace it um along with the money that was requested. Um uh the first two line items are the just
that vehicles and the equipment that goes inside the vehicles. Um for traffic safety. Again, those signs that we put out, uh the message boards, cones, all the equipment, um flares, we I could
just go on and on. Um it's very similar to years past. Uh we're trying to do more with less. I know that number at the bottom looks bigger, but um nothing's going down in price no matter uh what we're what we're trying to purchase. Um the camera system uh is
working out. Um they're traffic cameras. Um they're used for um any type of crime or alleged crime. We can go back and if we have a year, make a model, we can try to search those cars, limit the
the scope uh if they were on the portion of roadway that we think um suspects would have went. Um we I think solved two or three last year alone for looting charges, seconddegree crimes where they fled from our officers and we were not chasing, but we were able to get the
plates, track them, get them down later on. So, >> how often um are those cameras used and tapped into for our neighboring towns? Because I imagine with the major cross streets >> for us like Primary Neck and Station and Old Trenton, all that like
>> Yeah, we don't have them there yet. We only have them like along the highway, but um we do we do tap into numerous towns um whenever there's an incident. It doesn't log. We have a shared terrace agreement, so it doesn't log when someone comes into our system or vice
versa. It logs it for me that if I went into South Brunswick, you would we would be able to see it, but I don't know who's coming to see ours. >> I can't answer that. I'm sure there is a way. I'm sure the company knows, but I I don't >> Do they ask? That's what I'm That's what I'm asking. Like this. >> Oh, yeah. Shared service agreement, but
you don't ask per time. You ask for uh once Okay, Cranberry's up and running. Cranberry, can we have access to your cameras? Yes. >> Okay. So, it's a statewide. They did change the parameters. There was actually out of state that were requesting as well and uh we had an audit and the state police decided um
that they didn't want out of state. So, we're not doing out of state currently. >> Got it. >> How many cameras? >> Excuse me. >> What's the total number of cameras? >> There's only four right now. Requesting four more. >> Yeah. Our township's pretty big. We we were slated for 20. Obviously, that
costs money and that's going to take time. Um so uh the additional request is for four cameras >> and just um major intersections or >> um yes right now it's uh major intersections uh but not all of them obviously we have five or six on 130
alone but more towards the warehouse districts where we're having um some higherend thefts um stolen motor vehicles uh we will we will if approved we will push this way a little bit towards town. >> Okay. And does the state like on 130 does the state
>> they don't because they know the towns are going to do it so they're not doing anything and the county is looking into it um there is a grant that I applied for um will put us on the list for uh to see if the county and and if they do approve it then we'll get four from the
county that will cost us nothing which will help >> the um the uh the footage you get you you guys keep it for certain >> three years >> three years >> yeah we don't own. We own the footage for three years. The equipment we don't own. We don't own the cameras. That's
for liability reasons. Car hits it, smacks it, stolen, damaged, vandalized. The company takes care of anything. It's essentially like renting the equipment. >> But the data that comes from that equipment we own for three years. I remember this was a a conversation we
had maybe two years ago when when the idea first crept up and u there was a conversation about crimes sort of within neighborhoods and um >> you know it was offered up that if these cameras did exist then you could have we could have maybe apprehended those people. So it's nice to see an idea come
into implementation. >> Yeah. Yeah. It just takes a little bit of time like everybody else. >> Of course. Of course. Can I could I I Yes. Without like spilling secrets or anything, um are these like traffic cameras or like >> Yeah, they don't do people. They do uh
vehicles like like the kind that you see up on >> Yeah, license plates. Just license plate readers. That's all they do. >> Okay. Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Um year eight is the next line item for county radio system. Obviously, that was a 10-year contract. Um and it's just a
warranty to keep it up and running. Um, we we were very fortunate. I want to say that I I I swear I think when they give you a 5-year warranty like we had, nothing happens. And then year six and seven, it was like the end of the world. And I didn't know. I'm like, what? Am I being punked now? Like even the
portables, I mean radio, >> Microsoft manufacturers guns, too. >> Yeah. >> Like whatever you think is about to expire, it expires. Cell phone carries. >> I think they could tap in and say, "Okay, time to break it now. >> Time to break it." But yeah, I mean each one of the portables that an officer
carries is north of $8,000. The warranty is 8,000 and we replaced four of them last year. So obviously it was worth its weight and gold. Um it covers the whole fleet, covers all of our cameras, the main hub, I apologize, all of our cars, the main hub, and every portable that
officer carries. So I mean it's a it's a no-brainer with the warranty. Uh replacement of firearms. This is uh allocated uh this started last year. It will end in 2028 and then will we replace the uh department the part in the firearms um
building and grounds. Um this is uh all the equipment that we have it training rooms. Um unfortunately again what I just said things go um we just lost um three APC units one at a
time. Um, and I just got the quote, and each one of them is, you know, $2,500. And that is keeps the brains. We were serving, um, we had the county here. We were serving a high-risisk warrant. Never fails. 3:00 in the morning, phone rings, come in, the whole system is
dead. >> Yeah. Um, so, uh, it was nothing you could foresee. It's nothing. It wasn't, we they didn't warn three different units. So, one at a time systematically again, when the time comes, the time comes. So I am staggering them uh as we
speak. Um but that money will go towards that. Again um computer and equipment the infrastructure that is separate than uh buildings and grounds. And then the last uh two line items are uh our camera system which we signed a 10-year
contract. It's just year I don't even know what year it is. Year two into into that contract. These are the officer's body cameras uh and the incar cameras uh as well as it's the same company inside a headquarters. We have an interview uh room inside when
you walk into the lobby to the left. If a victim comes domestic violent, we're not going to bring them into the cell area. And then there's an interrogation room. Those cameras are all tied in. It's all one company. It's all the same state contract. And we'll be able to if we body cameras in there, it would
upload as well. um just continue the uh interview and everything's all can be sent office. >> Hey chief, real quick back to the beginning. The >> yeah police unit is that one or three?
>> That is car. >> That is two marked units and hopefully one unmarked with the offset of the money uh for the total vehicle that we got. >> Works for me. Thank you. You're welcome. >> Always two. One will never do anything for us. One day, one night. It's kind of
how I try to rotate the the process through. We've been doing that now for probably the better part of seven or eight years. It's been working out. >> How many vehicles total do you guys have? >> Patrol vehicles, maybe 10, and then five
um uh five detectives administration. So, 15 vehicles. Um the other ones that are you see are just ones that are barely hanging on. They're used for road jobs. They're used for um uh I will not try try not to put any money other than oil change or service maintenance for
them. U when that comes they just going to stack and then we're going to sell um when we have our every four or five year uh township sale. We used to have a lot more. We used to have a lot more cars but we haven't been doing that lately. So, I'm trying to team up with Jerry. When the time comes, we'll have a auction and then Denise could tell you
where the money goes because I have no idea. >> It goes to surplus. >> There you go. >> Um, question about this axon. Is this >> So, this 68,000 is that um we paying that every year or is that every year?
>> Is that new equipment or it's just like >> It's not Well, it's funny you say that. Um, it's not new equipment. However, we are on a 30-month cycle. Every 30 months we get new equipment. It's a 10-year contract. >> Um, every 30 months we get uh the the body cameras say this is version three.
We get version four whenever it comes out. So, every 30 months is their upgrade. Um, and it's automatically included. But, um, in this is the warranty. Uh, I had two body cameras that broke. One was involved in something, the other one just it didn't work. So, we call them up. Uh, we get
another one that next day. That one gets sent out and a month later, whatever, we get them back. So it includes all the warranty and everything associated with it. >> I see it's a state contract. So is every department at basically >> Well, I don't want to say every department because there are a couple other vendors, but Axon has the state
contract. Uh they do all of the state police. The majority of New Jersey, if I had to guess, I would say 80%. If you ever see any police videos that aren't New Jersey, they're Axon. So they do the majority of the United States as well. They're a huge, huge company.
>> Yes, Barbara. As usual, um I have a question about it. Yeah. >> Moving towards EVs. I know this like you know I don't know that the Chevy four-wheel drive probably I don't know if they have any you know either hybrid
or um EV. I know you know the next whatever cars that you look at you know I know you're keeping an eye on possibly. >> I do. I look at them. We had people come to headquarters. Um, they gave us astronomical estimate. It's the up cost
to try to flip them to electricity. Um, for patrol pursuit rated, they're not there yet, unless I want to buy a Mustang because they're the only ones that have about 300 horsepower. Um, I'm being funny. You cannot fit them for a police vehicle. Um, but, uh, I did go from the eight cylinders last year. I
made a decision. Um uh I went from the eight cylinders for patrol every day to um the administration of detectives also would use those. We would just cycle them through and we will always do it. We now buy four cylinder vehicles. They uh are more than uh on average 500 miles
to a tank. So I know it's the minority of the fleet. However, we're at least incorporating them. And I think I only have one or two old old detective cars that will be cycled through as you know within the next two or three years and then they'll all be four-cylinders. But
for patrol vehicles, I mean um the EVs that you're talking about, they work good in certain um cities that are like Trenton has a couple of them. They're small seven square miles. You can, you know, they're really good. For us, it would be the I'm not opposed to it. It's
just to get it up and running is north of $300,000 just to upfit a substation to get it all the all the ports, everything that you were looking at where to put them. You know, the charging stations, that's the problem. >> That's what we were trying. >> We were never set up for it because that
happened in 2005 when that building was built. >> Right. Right. >> You can get me a grant, I will find you a spot at headquarters. I promise you. We were looking into that too as far as grants for that. So, >> so, so there the equipment has been getting upgraded like the cars, the
vehicles have been >> they're out there. It's it's retrofitting our infrastructure as well as you know. >> Correct. And I don't know that that the equipment's out there for we have highway miles so we need the bigger cars and if we do get into we've had several
pursuits last year. I don't know what that looks like or what that translate. Haven't done the homework on that because we're we don't have the ability to to get it up and running yet. Okay. >> You know, but I I would do it in a second if we could switch that over if that was a possibility. At least for the
even the smaller part. >> That's what I'm thinking. Let's they like we start small like get the infrastructure then start small. >> They come into a police building and they came with Jerry and you know uh Denise sent them over and it's it's just so much money and nothing's going down in price.
>> Okay. Okay. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks. Do we have any other questions about >> the capital items? Are we good with the police capital items? >> We're good. >> Good. >> Okay. So, then we're going to move on to
the juvenile engagement officer. Um, and I'll let Jeppe give everyone has the information. You've been provided the presentation. Um, I know you know what it's about. I'll just have him give a brief overview of it and then thoughts. Um, it is not
in the budget right now. I did not put it in the budget. So, if it were a go, I would have to readjust the numbers. >> I mean, you you know, I I we gave this presentation twice. So, if there's any specific questions, I don't want to beat
a dead horse, right? Um, I'd be more than happy to to take them or answer them or um any feedback you have, pro or con. >> I was going to say for the general public, we haven't had the conversation
in public. So, we've had the conversation because uh during a closed session because we were conscientious if any officers names or any personnel was going to be mentioned. So, that was the reason that it was in closed session. So for the general public, they don't know
anything about it unless they attended a board of education meeting. Um if they happen to have attended that, they would have information. So if you could just give a brief >> Sure. Sure. It's uh a juvenile engagement officer very much like an SRO um with a little bit of uh enhancements.
Uh the enhancements would be a uh lead instructor. Uh we currently um teach lead at the school uh every every year for a couple months. Um that officer would be assigned to the school would be
also uh trained in lead. Um it would be you know something that uh it would be a Monday through it would be whenever school is in session the officer would be in session. It would be during school hours the entirety. Um and they would
you be used for um obviously um safety of the children, education of the children. Uh they'd be involved in meetings. They would be involved in um whatever the dayto-day of the school looks like. They would not be used for
discipline. Um no no more so than you know um couple weeks ago when I received a phone call there was an incident there. um if we need to send an officer to the school, we would send an officer to school. If not, um just because the officer is there, that's not what the intention of of a juvenile engagement
officer is or an SRO for that matter. Um you know, and then ultimately, uh breaks, uh if you're outside, um in the you know, lunch recess or open space, any any kind of uh vulnerability, security meetings, uh security um
liaison to the school. Um and then in the off time when the school is closed for the summer, that officer will come back to police headquarters and become a juvenile detective. Uh 80% of most of our juvenile incidences involved involve the school one one shape or another
because obviously the juveniles are either here or Princeton. >> And just quickly, you said that was not included in the budget that was >> provided. Do we what's the the share of >> uh so that >> I mean I'd have to look approximately
>> all the numbers, but the share would be >> Oh, I had it on. I turned it off. The share would be uh for 2026 um a little over 70,000 and then I couldn't really tell you moving forward because it would all depend on what the
police contract increases are since our contract is up the end of this year and we're going to have a new police contract next year and also I don't know what the insurance premiums or the pension percent will be. So, but for 2026 it would be a little over 70,000. That would be the municipal share.
>> Would that be 2026 mean January 1 or September one? >> That's the question. >> Well, it would be for it would have been for the whole year. >> Whole year, right? >> The full year share is 70K. >> Correct. Current. >> Correct. >> Yeah. And there's no time to to do this
this this year. >> Meaning this calendar I apologize this calendar school year. would be next calendar school year which would be September whenever school starts in September. So then this year's budget will essentially be a quarter of that 70 >> the third probably four months.
>> Yeah. If we were to do it this year next year then it would be over 70. >> Right. Correct. >> I mean I could try and count and divide by I'm I'm just not that bright this morning apparently. So my calculator >> Yeah. It'd be a little under 20,000 if
>> just for the year. Just >> the the agreement would be we 50/50 with the board of ed >> correct >> that that's salary. What about the pension and >> everything? >> Everything. So we would tell them how much they need to contribute towards it because the whole what happens is the
whole thing comes out of our budget >> and then they will have to reimburse us for half of it >> and then um so is that seven you might have said this but is that 70 everything or is that we don't know. >> Well that's everything our portion. So, I'd have to put 100 if it was for the year, I'd have to put 140 in our budget
and then get 70 back from the board of ed. >> But as far as the pension insurance, that number is not in there. >> That's in there. Yes. >> And the board of education, if they approve this in their budget, >> a preliminary, yes. I mean, but we have to draw up contracts. If it was if it
they gave us the what you what you guys are presented with now and they said yes, they know that number. Well, >> but that doesn't mean it's approved in their in their >> Yeah, I I don't know if they know that number because their number was a little low because I have their number and 2027
it was 60,000 is what they thought it was going to cost us and that's not completely accurate just because of the increase in insurance. >> Yeah. Everything going on, >> right? >> They didn't vote on it because um it didn't go for vote because their budget
already passed last year. Correct me if I'm wrong. >> Yeah, their cycle Yeah. their fiscal is different than ours, but they will if it's passed then go back. They would then have to pass it. We would have to get a contract. Both sides would have to agree to it. So, there's a lot of work to be done before September.
>> Yeah. I think what she said was they would have to find the money within the budget they already have. Then I would presume moving forward they would put it in their budget. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. and their budget doesn't work the way our budget time f
>> I think it's important to two elements here we have a plan to this TC uh that is in essentially a collaboration with the school for a project that the school has initiated
and this is a version of the plan to satisfy the project that the school is interested in. there is another version of the plan that does not involve us and I think that they have not necessarily explored that uh that route. Um a yes or
a no from this TC does not mean that we are you know for or against an officer in the school. It is a decision that we may believe it shouldn't come out of our budget and then it'll be up to the school to figure out how they want to
fund their Part: 2
So you're you're adding to headc count unless you're willing to lay off an office after five years if this doesn't work out >> with that. I'll turn off my microphone. >> I don't think that's going to happen. >> No, but or through attrition. I mean we have plenty of retire I have two retirees this year. So I'm just
>> you know that that will definitely happen. But you're right after that five years, >> right? It's very complex and I don't know that there's um I I think maybe even within this TC body there's uh going to be varying opinions and myself as both a member of the TC as well as a parent in the school as well as you know
u the advocate for very many vulnerable families within that system uh I don't even know really what the appetite is in that in those vulnerable families to to have the presence of an officer what that might do for them in terms of their anxiety levels given the um you know the
the situation the way it is right now with im immigrant enforcement and misinforcement. And so I I I that is a part of a discussion that I don't feel is for us today. I I I would like if it's okay, Madame Mayor, that we that we really separate this into two. The
school has a project. We're not opining on whether that project should or should not move forward. That's their project. It's like, you know, us wanting to buy a piece of equipment for town and asking the school to have an opinion or to fund it for us. The school has a project.
That's one issue. You know, let them figure it out whether it wants to move forward or not and let them look in their budget. We today are being asked whether we would like to fund it. That's that second piece. Mhm. >> So, do we have to move like >> So, at this point, I like a straw poll
to decide if we should be putting this in the budget or not. And then >> and I can start that off. I'm I'm not a I'm not a go. >> Okay. Is a no. >> I'm a no as well. >> Matt's a no. >> I'm a no. >> Okay. >> No.
>> Okay. >> I I think I'd be a yes, but that's okay. >> Okay. Well, that's okay. Okay. So, 41. So, it's not going in the 2026 budget. >> Sounds like >> Thank you. >> Let's go in.
>> You're good. Let's go into our capital budget. We're going to have um Ken come up so we can go over the three items that are on the spreadsheet and then there was a fourth one that Barbara sent over um yesterday with regards to little
league. So we'll have Ken address all of those. The fourth one was a scoreboard for Little League. >> Okay. So, um, I put in for three like Denise said, I can go over, uh, each
one. The, uh, >> Parks and Recreation Commission has been discussing, uh, the installation of a gazebo at the uh, village park at the point of the path where there's like
that little oblong. They call they've been calling it the circle procurement, but it's not a circle. It's a eggshaped. But um so they've made the determination that they would really like a gazebo to go in
there. Um so that is the one request. Uh that is request number one. I can put in for a grant application through DCA for the recreation improvement fund which we've gotten the last two years
actually. They've helped fund the uh tennis court rehabilitation and also the roof at the pavilion. So, uh I would include that. I'm do I'm in the process of doing that right now for 2026. I'm
going to include the gazebo in there and also the dock uh replacement of the dock which is um on another page there. As you can see, Iman actually brought this to my attention um late last year. It it
is in disrepair. Uh people could probably walk right fall right through it. This uh is a floating dock system which is actually on state contract. they would come and uh do the installation as well. So that that price
includes the installation. This is the other item I would include in the DCA grant as well. I think this one for DCA is a no-brainer to be honest with you. I think that one would certainly be
approved. The um third item is the shed uh for the camp. Um, that shed was built probably before I started here. This is this I'm I'm here almost 27 years.
>> Yeah, it it's we it's gone through a few repairs, but it's kind of tilting now and there's holes all over the place. So, we really need to the the equipment that we put in there, we have to like put plastic bags around and we can't
even keep half the stuff in there. So, um, we really need to replace that. I did not That's not something that the DCA grant would would, um, cover. Um, >> got to find a new home for the groundhogs that live in there. >> Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's it's it's really
it's in bad shape. It really needs to be knocked down and we got to put a new one in there. And then the the fourth one, I guess, was the installation of the U scoreboard at the little league field. uh I guess
Shanghai field. Um the little league before they kind of went out of business in in Cranberry purchased a new scoreboard for that field. It's been sitting down at
public works for I I don't even know how long. At least five or six years, probably a little longer. Um, I guess there was a request to have that new scoreboard installed. Um, >> score what?
>> To score what? >> To score what? Question. Right. So, so as you know, the just a little background, the Cranberry Little League folded a number of years ago. It was brought into the West Windsor Plainsboro I mean West Windsor uh
>> Yeah. Plansboro. Yeah. Little League. So now it's West Windsor, Plainsboro, Cranberry, and and also it's it's into um Robinsville as well. They're they're pulling from Robinsville as well now. So the number of the amount of use that
that field gets is very minimal. Um particularly for games. the so I I mean to spend money on on that kind of thing right now I think we would it would be wise to say
show us the need and then we can then um you know take care of that but I don't think there is a need right now >> they hold te-ball there is my understanding which again I have a daughter that's played baseball her whole life and they don't keep score in T-ball so there's that right but the all the little leagues
>> not a whole lot of balls and strikes called >> no Um, definitely not strikes. >> We have a We have a scoreboard there now. >> It that doesn't work. >> That doesn't work. >> Okay. So, we have a scoreboard that doesn't work and we have a scoreboard that will work and so we just keep storage of a functioning one and and
keep up a nonfunctioning one >> because I mean it's $2500 to put the new >> install. Is the idea maybe if we install it that they'll use it? I mean, Cranberry kids still play little league and I imagine
all these games are scheduled in Robinsville and West Windsor and Plan. Would they use that field if it was more functional? >> Um, I mean, it's not a rule for a little league field to have to have a scoreboard to be able to use it. Um, >> why why don't they use that field? I
mean, part of the schedule. Well, it's just because I mean there's not that many kids from Cranberry that are playing in the league. >> So, it would probably be up to the coach if there I really don't know how many >> I was around on the little league board
when that merger happened. >> Correct. >> There's just not the volume of kids in Cranberry. So, if you've got a team that has >> 12 kids from West Windsor and two kids from Cranberry, you're not going to play games. >> So, they do everything over at Wfield. They do everything in West Windsor and
community and all of that activity has been moved over there. >> That I did a little bit of research on it. Is there someone who is a licensed electrician in this? It's not difficult actually to install it. >> I mean it could be a volunteer project as long as you have a licensed
electrical engineer. >> But I just again it's the use that is the issue. It's not used. if that board would reconsider, if they would hold tournaments, like little league tournaments there and try to create a revenue stream that you could attract
people. I would love to see those fields used. >> I can I can check I'm I know the president of the board over there. I can check with them and see what kind of use and maybe you know what, maybe they will pay for it if they have some money. uh
if they're going to use it, they they have they have the money. I mean, they have the scoreboard waiting there, so maybe they could do it. >> The struggle over the years, right? There's no lights. The other fields in West Windsor have lights. They can play all all night and all evening. There's just not the volume of games like like
it was even when when our kids started. >> No lights. >> There are no lights in Village Park. In 2023, this TC was tasked with a um open space update and it was vehemently requested by the parks uh parks commission at the time. And in that 2023
update, um, our township planner sort of identified areas in our green spaces that were used and unused and for, you know, there was like a duration of time that they were sort of assessed for. And that was flagged as one of the locations that was not minimally, almost used to a zero
point. and it was sort of flagged to say this is a piece of land that could be repurposed for another uh you know for another element for another theme for another game for another sport because it was utilized to a zero um yes we're having a request by I don't know if it's
one resident or two residents or 10 residents but the truth is if you go to that park on any given day as we have all mentioned it is it remains empty in fact it is a location where I see very often residents releasing their dogs off leash and um and they just go and do
their business in various corners of that facility. Um, so it's it's like I mean if if there's I believe this last year parks and wreck heard different requests and different suggestions of sports from residents and
it's almost like why is that going unheard but then this element with a scoreboard for a sport that is very sparsely played um you know sort of getting our air time here >> and so I I'm really really wondering out
loud why Number one, that 2023 report is not is not utilized as a resource because a lot of this was was outlined there. Um and and use really has to determine what we choose to do, especially as our mayor uh highlighted in a very expensive budget year.
>> Yeah, we do have four baseball field. Um, I I I I think a good idea of what you suggested about possibly asking them if there's a way, you know, they want to fund it. I mean, we have this perfectly
usable scoreboard sitting somewhere. >> Sure. It still works now that it's been sitting for so long. >> That's true, too. Okay. I shouldn't have said that. A new one sitting there for several years. Um, and to see whether it functions and whether it can be put in. Um, would that kind of And then as you
said, like is there a possibility where it can draw people in because we do need we do need like we we have certain things that you know people come to town for, but this could be a way to bring people to town and like you had the baseball. The old time baseball,
>> right? >> Yeah, the oldtime baseball. So, it could be a way to bring people into town, you know, and use our restaurants, etc., etc. So, um, yeah. Yes, I hear what you're saying, Iman, but we have this field. It's already there. We have a,
you know, potential way to upgrade it. So, >> I'm I try to be an an optimist. I don't think a functioning scoreboard is going to bring people to play baseball in Village Park. Um, >> this my kids are old. This baseball thing endemic, this lack of baseball playing, not a cranberry issue, right?
>> No. >> Yeah. >> It It's statewide, countrywide years. poor Lisa. >> 12 of them. It's been my entire life and I can if it could be a >> it is it is a decline in participation. It's definitely a decline from Cranberry
kids uh playing baseball and that's the major reason that the power shift moved outside of Cranberry for this board. >> Yeah. And it's unfortunate because I know that particularly in this case that there are some champions for the sport
and the one that has made this request is definitely one of them and I I love it and I love the passion for it but >> I'm I'm nickel and dimming everything this year. When I look at the numbers that were and the issue, the other items that we're about to tackle here, I know
2500 doesn't seem like a lot of money, but to throw it at something that's not going to be used, that just it doesn't make sense to me. >> It It seems irresponsible. I I agree. If we can get somebody to volunteer to do it, >> etc., great. Um, but I I I don't have an appetite to spend money.
>> It's going to be more than 25, right? >> Well, you said quote from years ago for 2500. >> Yeah. So, it's going to be more than that, I'm sure. >> You know, the other thing is the West Windsor Little League may not know about this and they may have an interest in
using it at one of their fields that they're actively using. >> Of course, they will. Right. >> I mean, so, so you know what happened was there was this, there was some extra money in the Cranberry Little League
coffers and they were spending it before they turned it all over to >> Listen, you've just moved it from one column on the budget to another column on the budget. I'm complete favor of selling the asset. >> Well, I guess technically does the town
>> own it? um is it's really the little league's um asset right now. So, but they may, you know, there's there's a the little the one baseball field in Community Park in West Windsor does not have a scoreboard on it. So, they may be
interested in in taking it and putting it in there. I don't know. I mean, there's So, I will check I will check with the Little League. >> You've also just answered the question for me. We're being asked to put in something that we don't own. >> Yeah. Well, right. >> Maybe. Yeah. I don't I don't know the
actual chain of custody of that school board. >> It was kind of I guess I guess it was given to the Well, we were storing it. Really? That's really what it what it is. >> Sorry to bring this up. Does that mean it belongs to the West Windsor League? I mean, did the Cranberry assets go to the
>> Technically? I believe they did. >> Let them figure it out. >> Yeah. So, let me let me reach out to I guarantee you they don't know that there's a scoreboard that's been sitting in storage for a while. >> So, there's a diff several different ways of approaching this and you come back and let us know whether we put it
in by volunteers or whether they take it or whatever. >> But for this purpose, it's not going in the capital. Exactly. Correct. Okay. So, it's a no to that. The other three items, the replacement of the village park dock and the installation of the village park gazebo. We're going to ask
you to put a grant in for if you get the grant. Are we okay with those items or >> um that gazebo is an area where the shade tree is is saying that maybe a heritage tree could go there if they
want shade. There's a gazebo in our village park that is not even being used. So why are we putting in a second gazebo and m you know maintenance again you know we're not maintaining I mean we are slowly maintaining things that are in our parks. Here's another maintenance
thing. So you know here we are um you know so are we all a no on that then? Well in >> I hate to paint myself as a as an an anti- gazebo. Well, but we're we're also we're we're also not thinking of functionality. We're putting a sitting
arrangement in a circle where there already will exist four or five sitting benches. And I think that when Barbara is absolutely correct um the shade tree commission spoke to parks commission and told them that our suggestion is a heritage tree of some kind and
>> well that's that's interesting because that really has not been brought up at all at the at the commission. It's it's been brought up last year and the year before. When the walkway was completed, Shade Tree specifically spoke to the chairperson of parks at the time, that
year, and the year after with the very strong suggestion that anything we install in our ground should really have the shade tree um look over it. And they suggested very strongly that a tree be put in the center, especially because you have benches already going to be around. So, we're going to have benches
plus a seating in the middle. it. I mean, conceptually, I'm not sure what that looks like or what the purpose of that is. >> Now, I can repaint myself as pro-tree in this in this discussion as opposed to anti- gazebo. >> Yes, I I would like to be protree in this discussion.
>> Shade tree. I know park spoke to Trache this year and they didn't offer up any trees they wanted to put in. They >> I can pull up my notes from every meeting. >> I know, but I'm talking about this year. I mean this >> did did did >> they know that a potential gazebo could
be being put there? >> I believe so. Yes. But >> yeah, I mean >> meaning at your Shade Tree meetings it was never brought up that a gazebo is going to go in that area. Yeah. Well, I I don't know. There's a lot of communication blips, I think. But to go
to your point, is this TC4 a gazebo in that location? >> Another little straw poll. I'm I'm a no on that. No, I I just don't see it as additive. Again, we've got the pavilion there that we just redid the roof on that that that
provides that element. We have an existing gazebo. I don't see this as a recreational element, which is what it's being described as. So, I don't I'm I'm no I I don't I don't see I don't understand the need for it. I guess is and again I maybe it's
scrutiny and I I apologize to every board and commission and everything that's going to be presented today but my mindset coming into this meeting is every dollar counts for us. That is a potential reduction in a tax increase to our residents. Every penny that we can
squeeze out of this budget is how we have to look at the overall budget and the implications to our our municipal tax rate. But they're gonna say he was going to put in for a grant that may have paid for it. So if you don't want it, it's a no. No grant, no money in
capital. No, >> it's it's it is a redundant if not a non-additive feature in the space that could probably do better with a tree. I'm >> I mean I'm not saying definitely that there's going to be a tree there or whatever, but that as is you're saying it's a redundance and we >> even empty and green it makes more
sense. >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Okay. So four nos. So, no. No grants for that. It's a no right now. Okay. >> But if you move to to the you were going to apply for the grant for the dock, right? Yes. >> So, expanding on that
>> because the doc I mean the picture sells it. >> Like I don't want to put my foot I'm always nervous when I put my foot on that thing. I'm going to go straight through it. But we had discussed at parks and wreck um I want to say a couple years ago the ability to en
enhance that and not just have a canoe launch. But could part of that grant be there was a talk of people renting or having a place to lock up their canoes or kayaks and have like a rack element that we could have there so that people didn't have to haul their equipment back
and forth. And it was a double-sided thing that we were talking about. Could could there be an element that would then be a recreational element? Like not just a dock that's there, but a way to like launch and >> Well, the problem with keeping stuff there is who's keeping track of that?
Who's making sure that those are locked up, that they're not stolen? Who's reserving the spots to bring the kayaks and the canoes and keep them there? There's an insurance liability with that as well. >> I thought it was private kayaks. >> Yeah. >> Not not rental, not >> not renting out private. Yeah. So that
you would have to, you know, by yol bring your own lock and you lock up and there's a slot there and if there's one available it's like first come first serve and you can store your kayak there. It's like a bike a bike rack. >> Yeah. >> But you and you lock your bike in a bike rack and it's a public rack. >> Right. Right. >> So you can lock your kayak there.
>> So So to your point though, um parks did bring up very very very many plans in the past, but they sort of like start a new project and then start a new project and start a new project. And I remember I was sitting in the meetings when that suggestion was sort of birthed. Um I
don't know like here we're trying to make a plan on something that a whole you know board and commission should have been working on and um this has presented itself because it's an issue of liability. It is completely >> disrepair in completely disrepair and it
was discovered during a boy scout um event. >> I don't know Lisa. Yes it was raised. I just don't I don't know that we are going to process this to a point that uh we now have a plan and a budget for it and we can enhance this. How does one approach this project Denise when
>> when you take it for what it is sitting on the paper here and and you we approve the 15,000 as a line item and we take it as it as it described that it's something that's in disrepair and we're approving that there's an you and it looks like it's an improved dock.
>> Right. Yeah. So, I mean, it's an enhancement. >> Yes. >> Right. >> Yes. We're going to put it in the capital with the caveat that you're applying for a grant. If you don't get the grant, then you're saying, "Yes, we want to go ahead and fund the replacement of the dock." >> What's the cost?
>> 15,000. >> Yeah. I mean, >> okay. >> It's actually a liability issue. >> Yeah. I don't I don't want anyone on it right now. Right. >> Now, we're left with the storage shed. What? We don't think we'll get a grant for that. That's $10,000. >> You want to go back to the dock?
>> No. No. I think I think everything that you're saying with the docket makes sense. Yes. Yeah. Um uh since we're going to the storage shed. Okay. Is this a Boy Scout project potentially? I mean, this could be like they always >> That was that was the It was originally
a Boy Scout project and then the repairs were done as >> Why can't we take it down and then have them do this as a Boy Scout project? They're always looking there. There people out there looking for No, this is the story. No. God, not the doc. No, that that went by the wayside.
>> Oh, but you know, back to the doc. Do we have to do anything with um with D by putting that in or anything? It has to do with it's so you don't need any permitting. >> The company I I the company I've dealt with didn't didn't mention and I did say
are there any permitting? It's a floating dock. >> It's in the water. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, >> and it's on the stream bank, >> but it's already there, >> but there's something there already. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> I just wanted to put that out there. >> Yeah. >> Um Okay. The storage shed. Back to a Boy
Scout project. I don't know that the Boy Scouts are going to be capable of building a storage shed. I know they did it years ago, but I I noticed their projects now are not as complex as that. >> So, I don't I don't
>> And it could be that could take some that could take a a significant amount of time, too, because we you know, they have to go through their planning phases and >> ra concrete, right? There's no concrete. Is there a concrete floor there now? >> No. Okay. That makes it a little different. Yeah.
>> What's the size of the current I'm sorry. >> No, no. This is a kit that that's purchased. This is not someone building it. This is like a kit that's being purchased. >> You could Well, you could buy one that's pre-built and just have the pad and they just drop it right off. >> And is that what this quote is for? Yes. Okay. Sorry.
>> Oh, I was just asking the current size >> and you need it for this year. Is that what you're selling? But that's I mean if we if we're going to be able to to get this uh to be able to actually store our equipment going forward because a lot of it the equipment we've had to throw away over the years too because it
gets like moldy because weather is getting in there. >> Why can't we take it out of the recreation trust? There's plenty of money in there and that's what that money's for. >> Yeah. I mean we we could we could do that as well. >> Can you say that again? I'm sorry. take it out of the recreation trust.
There's there's plenty of money in there and that's what that money is. >> How much how much is plenty of money in the recreation? >> 70 80,000. >> Yeah, >> that seems like that seems like a no-brainer. >> That's a good idea. >> What kind of equipment do you store in there? >> The sports equipment. The >> for what? For >> for camp.
>> W camp. This is all for wreck camp. >> It's all for wreck camp. Yeah. >> Wait, I'm sorry. What are we talking about then? >> We're talking about storage. Shed. >> Oh, the storage done with the rack. >> No, no, but not the rack. Oh, we're done with the rack because we can't do that. >> No, we we we can't plan for parks.
>> You work the last 36 hours. So, that Red Bull is not quite doing it. >> So, to to your um just just to speak to the condition of items in the storage sheds in that in that area of the school. Um you know, the PTO has that little barn for their um you know, for
their equipment. The Jamfest equipment kind of sits in that area. Also, the play material and equipment kind of sits in a storage shed in that area as well. And all you need is one little hole on a roof, on a side, on a and the rats and
the squirrels and the, you know, every element of vermin is in there eating, chewing, destroying, pooping. >> And so it would be an investment in the items that are already in there to to protect it. >> The Jamfest stuff is in there. >> No, it used to be. The Jamfest stuff has
now moved into a proper storage shed. Part of the reason was exactly what we're talking. We couldn't we couldn't protect it from the elements and from the critters. >> It's going to be interesting when this starts melting. >> This storm could very well take that thing down. >> Yeah, it might do it. Yeah. >> Yeah.
>> But Denise had a good idea. >> Yeah. Just take it out of the dress. >> So So the type of equipment is for W camp and what do they I'm I'm just curious what's stored in there. There's well, like I said, the sport the sports equipment, the the basketballs,
kickballs, uh soccer balls, all that kind of stuff. The art some of the arts and crafts equipments in there. I mean, there's if there's paper, you know, in bins, you know, that kind of >> and that would protect like this new shed would protect that. Yes. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> Okay. So, we're good. >> All right. Thank you. >> Okay. Great. Thank you. Move that. >> All right. So, we're moving on to the other capital items. There's only a few left that um for 2026. We're not going
to worry about 2027 or 2028. Those are just estimates for the plan for 2026. Um in capital there is the clock tower weight cables. This is something that the Paul Mullen provided us information
on. It was in your binder. He feels very strongly it needs to happen in order to keep that working. Um, if he says it, I believe it because he spends a lot of time up there and a lot of time researching this stuff. So, um, I said I
would bring it forward. It's $5,000. Um, and obviously someone has to come and do it. He He's not capable of doing it. There are not a lot of people that actually do this kind of work. So, they're coming from out of state and they'll >> they'll fix the clock tower weight. If we advertised
all of clock windings asks of this township over the past how many years? >> Have we spent like a a dollar? >> It's not much. >> Like honestly like this one to me is like we have never been like I I if anybody here like we'd have to go back
to >> yeah stuff they've asked for we have to say no. Like changing the steps to get up there like that was a no. But >> mostly everything else is small that they've asked. I'm just trying to put it in context of a request of the township as a a total we we really have never
been asked or tasked with an investment. >> No, they had that one big repair two years ago and honestly I feel like something like this would be preventative to having a large repair like that. >> Of course, >> this one seems pretty easy. >> Okay. >> I I would really like to thank Paul Mullen for Yeah.
>> for bringing this to our attention and for all the work. >> We'll be so excited you said yes. >> Yes. Yes. I'll let him know on Monday. >> The the yes will be his thanks. >> Yes. Okay. The next item is every year we take township roads because township
roads are getting older and so we have a plan moving forward of what roads need to be done when. Some can be put in for grants and some cannot. So um Four Seasons, Licky Drive, Shadybrook, Cubly, and Applegate are all next on the list.
Um the estimate for those is 1,180,000. Um if you don't want to do it in 2026, you can push it off to 2027. There's nothing saying you can't. >> Where where are you in this? Um >> so be on the be on the summary sheet.
Oh, on the summary sheet. Okay. Right in the front. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> It's the second line. Various road mill paid. Yes. >> Okay. So you can push it to 2027. There's nothing saying you can't push it to 2027 if you want to. However, those
are the next roads and Four Seasons has been asking repeatedly when their roads are going to get done and we told them >> 2026, so probably 2027 they'll be completed. >> Okay. So that's in capital.
>> We've had visibility of this for a couple of years. Yes. Like which we have to. So that also includes >> we talked about this in 2020 >> because we also have to do inlets every time we do new roads. So that includes the inlets as well from there. Okay. >> Okay.
>> Is that possible to get? >> No, not for that. That's a not Plansboro Road. However, the second part of Plansboro Road, we're going to put in for a grant for that. If we get it, great. If we don't, we'll worry about
that in the future. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Okay. So, the next is thermal imaging camera kit. This is something the fire official has asked for. Um they
asked for it last year. We said no because we thought they were going to fire districts. So now she's asking for it again. I don't see us going to fire district anytime in the near future. So at this point we probably should be saying yes. It's $6,700.
>> What What are these things? >> Um it's something that they need for if a fire occurs. It's like um imaging camera so that they can go in when they do their in investigation of the fire and look at certain things. I also think it's to make sure that again
>> I'm no expert, but I also think it's to make sure the fire's out, >> right? Because we unfortunately had an instance last year where the fire was out and then it it flamed back up again because we had intense winds. It's that massive fire that occurred in the beginning of the year that actually was
a spark up again. So, I think this also contributes to making sure that >> it's been properly taken care of. I could be completely that could be fiction on my part. So, right now, what do they do? But right now, what do they do? Uh, that would be a fire company question. This
is our fire official. So, I think what she's using it for is to go in after fire officials have to go in after and they have to do an inspection of the fire. >> It's not the fire company. It's not under the fire company, >> right? This is the fire official. >> Yeah.
>> All right, Lisa. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um the next whole bunch all the way through acts on evidence. Those were either recreation or police that we talked about already. Um miscellaneous road repairs and resurfacing. I put
20,000 in every year. That's for Jerry. If we have some major problem on a road that we need to fix, like there's a pipe underneath our road that breaks and now we have to go and we have to know and pave a section of it. So we make sure we have money set aside for those things.
You'll see that every year. You know what? Since we're talking about roads, I saw a line item that says vehicle maintenance expenses road. >> I I know, but that's I know that's in operating >> in operating. That's different than than
this. Yeah, that's probably uh vehicle maintenance road. No, no, no. That's vehicle maintenance roads for Jerry's vehicles, not for police. There's a police one, there's a roads one, right? And then there's a fire official one under vehicle maintenance. So any
vehicles we have that we own in those three areas, there's vehicle maintenance on existing vehicles. >> Okay. Okay. >> So ones that are go on the road that >> those are public works. >> Talk about road. >> Yeah. No, no, no, that's different. Yes.
Um, next line item, sewer improvements. Once again, we need to be putting money in every year. Our sewer infrastructure is getting older. we are having problems with piping. Um, so we need to make sure when that happens and there's an emergency, we have money set aside. Otherwise, we would have to do an
emergency appropriation and we do not want to do that. >> This is a strange question, but because I mean maybe we've lucked out. Uh, if you can look at the glass half full scenario that most of our water main breaks happened on the county road, >> right? So, there's a benefit to that because the county has to take care of
it and we don't, but we have to pay police like overtime and stuff like that. Is there a way that these sewer improvements can this line line item be used to pay for that? >> No, this is capital. So, no. No, but but
that's it's fine. Wrong answer. That was worth a try. >> I know it's worth a shot. >> We also own pump stations, so we need money. We have our pump stations all the time. Things that need to be, you know, retrofitted, repaired, or replaced, right? Just so this is this is
specifically for that. It has nothing to do with any of our shared components, our shared service components. So, this is just for what we own within the town limits. >> Yes. >> What about like trees that money come out of there? Like if the roots are getting pipes and
>> Well, it would if we have a issue with one of our pipes and we have to go in and and fix it because there's roots in it or Yes, it would come out of this. >> Yeah. >> As long as it's not >> Sounds essential. Sounds completely essential. Yes, >> is essential.
>> Feels like a norainer. Y >> the next two line items are for affordable housing. Um we knew they were coming. >> There are lots of zeros, >> right? There's lots of zeros on them. Um they're I mean they're estimates at this point. Um hoping we're not going to need
more, but they definitely have to go in the capital plan. >> Okay. >> No choice. ju just to frame it, if you took out the next two line items, I mean, we're dealing with like a, you know, 2
>> Mhm. $8 million budget, >> which is normal, >> which is a normal budget >> because I mean the police capital alone >> when we talk about the the things that we have to talk about, which is our municipal tax rate, just for the general public watching at home. If you take out
those two items, we are on point with our budget. There's nothing nothing out of the ordinary that we're approving from a capital expenditure standpoint. >> And to reiterate for those folks at home, that topic we're talking about is affordable housing. Right. I just I think as we talk about
it are we need to use the words as as often as we can. It's a completely normal capital year outside of the affordable housing. >> Well, it's actually even less because if you take the $1 million Plains Road, which we're not going to fund if we don't get a grant right now, that's even
less. >> Lower. Yeah. >> Yeah. We were everyone was careful this year about asking for capital things um because of that reason. And again, not to the degree of this many zeros, but this, if you look at the cycle of our
surplus and our revenue, and you go back to rounds like two and three in affordable housing, you're going to see this this same dip of activity. But we're the added complexity is the zeros that we have to add because of the cost of land, >> right? Um, but I mean I would even hate
to say that we could be looking at a we would probably be making an argument for potentially a tax decrease which we did a couple of years ago >> because we are so under and our surplus would be to to the point of healthiness. I'm just saying I one of us probably
would I would have brought that up because I did all the math taking all that out and it's pretty interesting budget. Denise, if we had to comment on this particular element of our budget versus >> uh in years past, this is probably the
most expensive affordable housing project in >> Absolutely. >> Right. Right. I'm good. Thank you. I don't >> land purchase. >> Just land purchase. Yes. Yeah, that's important to me. It is purchase. >> Looking at all these zeros made us need
to eat donuts. >> Yeah. stress. >> That was the trigger for me. >> Yeah. >> You know what? I am missing one on here. I just thought about it. It's No, it's okay. It's a mason dump truck with a snowplow and sander.
>> I had that on my list for 90,000. I Yeah, it's not on the list, but I have to put that on there. >> Mason dump truck. >> So, it's going to go to 331. >> Forgive my ignorance, but the um >> public works is the purchase of the land
is getting tax credits for that or >> just for the construction of property >> that's for the right >> yeah that's on us >> can I ask you I'm I'm sure Jerry has used his truck to the max how old is the
truck that they're are they replacing something >> they are the truck they're replacing is probably 20 years old Jerry like >> I'm sure I that's just want to put that out there thank you Jerry >> oh yeah >> they'll auction that or >> and the winter we've had I'm surprised more haven't broken.
>> Yeah, the uh the old truck he auctions off, right? >> Uh yeah, we can. They au. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever it's worth. Okay. >> Okay. >> Okay. The only last item is I don't want to forget it. HPC asked about door molding.
>> About Well, they asked about putting molding on the front and back doors. I was I was under the impression they had someone who could that they had someone that found doors that looked like our old doors, but now it looks like all they did was find molding for the doors
that exist. So, they only researched, I guess, and found a vendor maybe with that information, but have no call back from the vendor. Not sure they can actually even get it. Not sure how it's installed. Not sure if it would negate the warranty from the company that
installed them. And the cost is an estimate. So really no concrete information. >> Yeah, I hear a lot of not shores. >> What >> the estimate even >> 5,000 >> and that's what but based on >> that's just for the molding. Um
>> so one >> um one of them so as the new HBC liaison um I I reviewed their their budget and they haven't asked for I don't I'm not sure what >> their operating budget they're operating >> well they they're not really given a capital budget
>> right so this is the first time they're asking for a capital budget in a long time but um the um you know there's exactly that these are estimates but um I think is their appetite for them to potentially get um
actual numbers, guarantees, etc. So maybe for next year, you know, possibly. >> Well, that's next year then. >> No, but your your your point about what does it look like? What is the mechanism of adhesion? Does it negate our
warranty? These have to be answered before we even look at um putting it as a line item. So it is maybe yet a little premature. >> Um and as you know um and I'm sure you've heard
this before too about the doors. The doors um this is a national uh trust whatever they're um you know the building is um you know historic and they want they really believe that those doors do not look historic the way they
are. And by the addition of this molding, it would help the aesthetics of the building and it is one of the first things that we do come in and and see the public sees of our town. >> So, could we commit to them that get all these things answered and then we'll
look at it for next year's budget >> if that's the way we want to operate. >> That makes sense >> because I don't know if it's >> there's too many unknowns to >> decide on I think >> so I will make sure that you know I bring that to their attention. >> Well, what if what if they're able to get this information? I mean, we have some time before we actually adopt this.
Is that correct? >> Well, we're going to introduce probably next Monday. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I I mean, I'm just wondering whether it's a simple phone call that they haven't done yet. I >> They have. They're just not getting a call back. >> They haven't gotten a call back. >> Oh, that's really unfortunate. It is unfortunate. >> Yeah. They have been trying to put in
the work. And >> I think the question is, do you want molding on the doors? Because if it's if it's no, then let's tell them no. And if it's yes, then let them >> I I can't even imagine what that looks like, you know? Like I feel like I'm being asked to >> I don't know because they showed us
pictures of the doors. >> What kind of molding we want, right? There's different types of molding that we want. >> Yeah. >> But yeah, >> and again, the warranty is huge. >> We would need an actual proposal and a decision on the warranty. I think
>> we spent five digits on those doors >> and because they were paramount to the security of this building because we all know what they were in shape. If we void the warranty on those doors that is like that we have to find out if that is going to occur. >> So Denise I was at the meeting when um a
member of the HPC did say that they had found a vendor that had the type of door they would have more supported. Um, and I, you know, it's regretful that it has come so late in the, you know, in the process because we've already had a door up there for several months now that
satisfied exactly what Lisa is saying, sort of it ticks the box for what the aesthetic requirements were and the safety requirement. Um, this idea now I think to your point is are we going to are we going to focus on this? Is this going to continue to um you know to be
an issue or are we going to just say can we move on to something else? >> Because they may come back and say we can't find molding but we want a new door. Are you going to spend another $50,000 on new doors? But my point is you're making them spin their wheels. So it's we're leaving the doors as they are
or we're we accept you're not happy with it. I >> I'm I'm I trying to find some room for compromise. Basically, what you're looking at is a molding that's around that door right now is what they're trying to enhance. It's an aesthetic enhancement to make it look more
historic and honor the history of the building. That's what their job is, right? That's what we've commissioned them to do. So, I applaud that side of it to to to do it. If it's a small investment to do it and doesn't break the warranty, I think that we should
consider it. But without any of that information, I don't think that we should be considering it for this year. So happy to do it, but I'm my opinion is get all the facts together, get it in writing that we don't we don't destroy a
warranty when we spent $45,000 on those doors to keep our employees safe. That was the that was the paramount issue. If now we want to wrap it in a bow, find out how much the bow costs and make sure that it doesn't hurt the package. >> Yeah. I think as a procedural issue and
we've we've stressed to our committees and departments present to us and give us information and we can't make blind decisions, right? It's not responsible. So >> Denise, I think to answer your question, yes, we would consider molding. >> Okay.
>> I wouldn't but not for this year because we don't have >> correcting 100%. But meaning I I'm not worried about them spinning their wheels because if there is a good proposal that is fiscally responsible, I would support it. >> And you're saying like again before it's
adopted, but there's no way that we're going they're going to identify a molding that they're going to agree on a molding. We're going to be able to get in touch with the door company and we're going to get something in writing that a warranty within the next week. That's what I'm saying is probably improbable. >> Yeah. No, and I know we keep talking about the next year, but you know, the next year has its own issues. Uh yeah,
I'm sorry that this is one that we can't just settle, but yes, thank you. >> I I think because we've asked for plans from other boards and commissions, as you said, Matt, I think like if they could show us what it would look like and the cost and installation and warranty. I got it. Okay. Thank you.
Okay. Um next item, a number of these, right? Increases in controllable operating line items. So, you guys have had your operating books and you saw the spreadsheets in the front where all of the yellow budgets are not within your
control. They're contractual. They're shared services, their health insurance, um, social security, taxes, blah blah blah. The items that are within your control that have increased, I just want
to highlight a couple of them. uh storm water management. Um so we had to increase our engineering budget for the next round of storm water management. Um that is a um estimate
from Van Clee to do the work the bare minimum requirements of the work. Um we also know Aman and Barbara know that there is a regional approach that's being looked at. There's a lot of questions to it still. um trying to
figure out how many towns are interested in being part of that regional approach because if it's not enough then it's going to cost more money than what it would cost for Van Clee. So right now we have it in Van Clee if the regional approach comes in um from the watershed
and it seems comparable or um less than we would consider the regional approach but in either case it's sitting in the engineering budget. So that's why engineering has gone up. Um so I just wanted to point that out. LOAP also went
up. We give the maximum amount for LOAP each year. The state provides us that annual contribution. And the reason that it went up is because they had more people qualify for LOSAP from 2025 than they have in previous years, which is um
good news because that means they have more volunteers probably and more active volunteers. So that is good. Um road salt has gone up. Um and that's really not within our control, but I just want to point it out. um and and road
overtime um is going to be up just because of the amount of snow we've had. So, those are really the bigger um things in um that are controllable within the operating budget that have gone up. Um I'm going to tell you the
things that are not within our control that have gone up and have really increased our budget. Health insurance premiums, $400,000. Okay, that's two pennies right there. Uh, library, which is state mandate,
$124,000. State mandate, we can't change it. That is minimum that we can provide to them. >> Um, >> before you go on, can I can we ask questions as you're naming all um so the state mandate like why is that go like
what are they? >> It's based on your equalized value. As your equalized value goes up, your contribution to your library goes up. And it's gone up $124,000 because our >> equaliz equalized value >> well the our our contribution to the
library has gone up $124,000 based on our equalized value which is the value all the assessed value in the town versus all the other towns in the county. >> Wow. >> Aren't we lucky? >> Well, good news is we have high ratables.
Bad news is not bad news but it increases the amount going to the library. >> Thank you for that. >> Yeah. Um shared services those are contractual things that have gone up and most of it was recycling MCIA because
they changed the type of recycling cans that we're using. Can I ask you a question about that? Because I have a note that the basically the recycling credit that we get >> recycling tonnage the tonnage >> we use that we're using
we're paying 220 for this for the new recycling but we've made 212 right >> so they basically offset each other in the budget is the way I read it. that offsets it and we use that recycling tonnage money to purchase equipment and for salaries for public works.
>> Okay. >> So in this it looked like that disappeared like the money it's in your revenues >> 212,000. You have to look at your revenue. You're just in your operating sheet. >> Oh, I was in the operating sheet. >> Yes. In the revenue sheet it's it's there.
>> And every year we get it during the year. So I can't put it in the budget. Now I do what's called a chapter 159 to add it to the budget. >> I think people need to realize I I think residents and businesses need to realize that tonnage money is based on the
amount of recycling that we get. >> So the more we recycle, the more money we get. So >> that's that's not the recycling you put out on your on your on your curb. >> Um >> I think it's part of part of it. >> It's the it's the it's >> they do it by tonnage and that's done.
Um we have someone who comes in and actually does our reports here. >> It's ours and it's the businesses as well across 130 which contribute very heavily >> right to the recycling >> skates alone. The other part that I see too is um the
like uh the clean communities are we still getting that grant too? >> Well we do but we get it during the year so I won't know what that is now and I'll put it in when we get it during the year. It goes in as a chapter 159 >> and we use that clean communities for >> we're using that. We've been using that
for storm water management. >> We've been charging Tom Decker's >> stuff to that. >> If you go to your revenue forecast, you've got clean communities. You got it for 2025. I'm not there yet. >> You're not there yet. >> No. And I I Yes. And I And we use it for different things every year. Like one
time we used it to have someone help. Well, we've been using it now for storm water management every year for Tom Decker. >> Yeah, because I didn't see that line item in the engineering. Okay. >> So, the the increase with regards to the new recycling containers, are we to
maybe uh assume that is just for this year like these containers already exist. So, will we will that exist in the budget for next year also? >> Well, we won't see that large increase, but you're going to see the additional money in next year's budget, right? So instead of it being $50 and now it's 75,
that 75 is going to stay forever more now. So you're not going to see the huge increase, but you're still going to be paying >> the increased price. >> And that's something that we didn't I feel like I've had residents ask why we went into that program. It I don't think we had a choice in that. That's something that Right. the county made a
decision and we had to be on board. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Yeah. I'm I'm I also like MCIA. That's Melis County Improvement Authority. That's recycling. >> Okay. And so there's like a a big salary increase on that line that I mean I know
>> big salary increase. Every salary has an increase for the three and a half%. >> Okay. >> Yes. >> Okay. So that's what I and of course that's our shared service. So we have to pay into it but I was I saw an increase. >> Thank you. So, general comment about the
budget. When you look at the 2025 requested budget, and I I imagine that this historically is what I'm about to say is true versus what we've spent. We're very conservative in our budget planning because the actuals versus what
we budgeted tend to be significantly lower, >> right? And that money then goes into surplus >> and then that goes >> the tighter your budget gets the less money reserve you'll have at the end of the year that will go into surplus >> right so I think where we're being ultraconervative
where we have to be accurate is on the uncontrollables right so you're talking the health insurance the things like recycling the things that are beyond our control we can't control what's going to happen there we're dictated what those are but on the controllable side we still show conservativeness like you
know based on historic. Yeah. >> Right. And so one would say that we we will have some money that will come out of this at the end of the year and go into our surplus. >> I would estimate well well we won't see this in our surplus in 2027. It's two
years. So we'll see 2025's reserve show up in surplus in 2026. And I can tell you it's going to be half probably. It's going to be 500,000 not a million. >> That's what Okay. That's what that's what I was looking I was looking at the bottom line between the actual the
budget versus actuals 25 to spent in 25 and there seems to be you know that's I was saying about a half a million in my brain we could forecast going into surplus have we accounted for that in surplus in the >> in these calculations? >> Yes. >> Okay.
>> That was my question. >> What >> why that drop off from million to five? >> Um well it just it depends. We've been spending more money, right? Everything went up. So everything, you know, that we could have been more conservative on now is costing 25% more than it did and
we're spending it. >> Sorry, what's the what's the million we're talking? >> So So we had money left over from our operating budget in 2024 that will or 2023 that went into our 2025 surplus of a million dollars. It's
two years behind, right? So now we're looking at what's going to be left in 20 the end of 2026 to go into surplus. It'll probably be 500,000 not a million >> because of the cost of everything going up to get more money in 2025. >> So it's year-over-year changes. Okay.
Because essentially right the 25 I saw the same number you saw. It's about 400 grand. >> Yeah. And the reason I'm framing it that way is because every resident's checkbook looks the same, >> right? every resident's checkbook that they're they're doing their deductions
on groceries and health insurance and everything else replicates what's happening to the township. And that's what I'm just I'm trying to put my mind in there as we're about to have this discussion on again this municipal tax rate is that their their budget their
P&L looks like our P&L. >> Yeah. So, the two two big things that are going up and are going to go up in the future are going to be your debt payments and your capital improvement fund, >> which is like the last
>> your debt service payments, all right, are about $180,000 more in 2026 and 2025. And that's not anything you can change. It's based on the bonds that you've gotten and what the the principal and interest are. And as the principal
as they age, you start to pay off a little bit more in principle, right? So you're going to see that go up. >> And that's 2019, 13, 19, and >> 2025. >> Five. Yeah. 1319, and 2025, right? Okay.
And so that then in the out years you're now accounting for what we're putting in this year >> plus our new bond >> plus our new housing. Right. Okay. So that's what you're seeing in the out years when you look at our surplus. That's when we get the big
>> Now you've got four of those debt payments that are impacting our surplus. Correct. Okay. just >> because we just expired a couple of our bonds in the last couple of years, but now 2013, 2019, 2025, you have 20 to 30 years on those, right? So, you're not
anywhere near paying those off yet. So, you have a lot of time left on those. Plus, you're going to have a new one from 2026 for the affordable housing. >> So, it's it's a problem that's compounding itself. And we coupled that with we don't have increased ratables because we're not building at the same
rate that we were. I mean we can assess our assessed value can increase but >> it's increasing a little bit a little bit and you'll see it bump up in about five years maybe based on the estimates that's due to the altheria warehouses if they get built and go on
>> right if these are estimates if they don't then it doesn't >> but outside of that again as we all experience when we were looking for developable land it's the same issue is that if we couldn't find places to develop then other people aren't going
to find places to develop and therefore our ratables are were pretty much developed. >> Yeah, I was gonna say for for all intents and purposes we're built out >> which is great because that is the number that was the heaviest number that contributed to our round four housing units
>> industrial >> was the industrial that we had nothing to do with building >> almost double the average of any other municipality was that industrial growth percentage that we had that that's what hurt our number. You're right. So, we're not going to have that. We're whoever is
sitting here is not going to have that for round five. >> And they're also not going to have much developable land. >> Correct. >> Right. >> But again, that hurts us from a revenue perspective. >> And don't forget the whole equation could change by then, too. So I would
right >> right >> is these these warehouses um modernize and reconfigure themselves. Do we do a reval as far as >> Yes. Yes. They'll look at it again and
we'll also get um construction permit fees from that which will help the construction department continue to sustain itself because right now it's not in your operating budget. But once major construction stops and major permit money comes in at some point, you
are legally required to have a construction department. It may look a little different than it does now and that will have to go into your operating budget. So the longer they can sustain themselves from the trust, the better. Um, so yes, when things are retrofitted, that helps the construction department.
>> And do we get any um, forgive me again, but do we get any ratables from the affordable housing like when they're online? >> No. Right. That's we >> get a pilot. >> Yes. No worries. >> That's a fixed number. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Um the big the big thing that
pushed the budget over this year was capital improvement fund. That is your 5% down payment on your capital items. >> And that's% interest and 5% principal. >> No, it's not bond payments. It's a down
payment. Is that a it's a bond principle of 5% and also do you putting down 5% of the expected interest? >> No. No, it is if our capital items are I'm just going to use a number $2 million, right? Those capitals we went over,
>> 5% of that has to come out of your operating budget. Okay? So, you cannot fund that 5% with a note or a bond. It has to come out of your operating budget because our number is so large this year for our capitals. I need money in my capital improvement
fund. Okay? So that you're not going to see you shouldn't see a number like that in your capital improvement fund next year. That should go down. And I've reflected that in the spreadsheets so that your operating budget is a million
dollars less than what it would be this year. Right. Okay. Um, so that's why the operating budget looks like it does. That is why it has increased so much. Um, with that being said, I've given you spreadsheets, three
spreadsheets. Now, you cut slice the slicing >> before we go there real quick. Yeah. A couple I think lingering questions. For affordable housing, that is an allocation of salary, correct? >> Yes. >> Right. I just want to make sure it's clear again for those members of the
public >> allocation of existing salary not additional >> not additional correct I just want to make sure everybody understands that when they look at these 70 >> the reason that we do that is because certain budgets are outside cap and certain budgets are inside cap if you
want to stay within your inside cap amount not use up all of your cap bank so that you have it for the next two years if you need it. Some salaries are put outside cap. It's just a way of
shifting the amount around, but it's the same total regardless of what budget it gets charged. >> I just wanted to clarify that for the public. Yes. And truth be told, regardless of what we get paid, I would say that 80% of our salaries could have been dumped into affordable housing this year. >> Oh, could have. It's just not enough to
make a difference. >> Exactly. It's a round we're a rounding error on this spreadsheet. I >> So, yes. I just want to make sure that was clear. >> Yes, >> you can put them towards legal fees. >> I just I just really want to thank you for explaining a lot of the question
marks that I had and they they do they do make sense because I'm like why is there a zero there? You know, it's because we don't have the money yet. Is there a zero, you know, in the recycling tonnage? Why is there a zero? >> Yeah, we don't have it yet. >> Yeah. The BPU community energy plan, even though we know $10,000 is coming,
we don't have it yet. So that really >> app that energy plan we got that 10,000 that was in 2025. >> Oh, okay. It wasn't reflected in here. >> Sorry. The grant's not showing in there. >> No, wouldn't it show in revenue >> or it's showing? >> It should show in both.
>> Oh, it's not in yellow. >> Which one? >> What? Which one? >> Uh the big yellow under library under government regulated. >> 25. >> Maybe we didn't get it yet then. I thought we got that already. >> I I don't know. >> Isn't that what they're working on now?
>> They're working on it now, but maybe they don't get it until they actually spend it. >> No, that shouldn't >> I was just thanking you. >> I didn't mean to cause a problem. >> Um, it's under government regulated.
>> Yeah, then clearly we didn't get it yet. >> Okay. Okay. Well, then they can't they can't um >> Well, they >> Yeah, maybe maybe that's a reimburseable one. >> I think it might >> it might be a reimburseable. >> I can't remember. I remember applying for it for >> It might be that they don't get the money and I mean they they get the money
after they've spent it. Sometimes that happens, >> right? Well, maybe we'll just >> keep an eye on that. Right. Okay. Okay. Um and I really like the things that you're pointing out. I had question marks on all why is this going up? Why is this going up? Salaries 3.5%. Right.
So, that was a really a big I just wanted to summarize some of the things and of course we talked about affordable housing and how that is really impacting our >> bottom line and uh and I'm I'm glad that we the low staff has gone up because that means we have longevity which
>> um also I want to point out that fire and first aid contributions they're getting the maximum amount provided they provide the audits to me like they need to every year and they're they are aware of that. That's every year. >> Can I ask a question um on shade tree?
I'm assuming that the increase there is um for an arborist, >> correct? >> Yes. Okay. Is there is that going to be like it's because it's listed under expenses versus salary? So, is that like >> it's a vendor, it's not an employee,
>> right? Okay. So, is that on a contract like as needed basis? So there's no we we don't we're approving to spend that much but again it's you're you're calling them in as a consultation. >> Correct. >> So they're there could be some savings
in there because you might not need them to that level. Right. >> Well we put it in the year before too. We didn't. >> So this next this next meeting they're going to they they have a draft of what this arborist is going to do. And boy is it a big list. And I would be surprised if they don't use that 10,000 and then
even request even more. our trees are really in trouble and they are can cause you know hazardous situations. So they have a list of the trees um an inventory and there's a list of hazard trees as well. So >> okay because it's showing here it's the
difference between >> I I know what you're saying. >> Yeah. It's it's literally like 50 grand if you're looking at what we spent in 2025. We spent 30 and now we're looking at spending 92. And again, I'm just as a member of the public is going to go is
going to weight the things that we just said no to and they're going to see this list. So it I think it needs to be really detailed. And I think that again >> because the shade tree commission did not spend really any of their budget last year. They didn't plant a lot of
new trees >> because of the drought. So they they not plant because of the drought. Um so that they couldn't use their money there. And honestly, once they get that arborist they on board, which they've been working on, but now they're getting a job description, they're probably even
going to need more than what's in. >> What I'm asking is to make sure that shade tree understands the year that we're in >> and that if there's anything that they can conservatively push to yet another year. There's some nice to haves and there's musthaves and
just so that they understand the framework of what they're working in in their budget. >> They wanted way more. Yes, they I'm sure that they did. >> Certain members wanted way more for an arborist and Kathy Eastston and I said, "No, we're not doing that." >> Okay. So, in the spirit of being fiscally responsible because you have a
budget doesn't mean you have to spend to that budget always. And then just if they have if they understand that I'm just I'm just asking for a little consideration that they understand that they're part of a an overwhelming budget. But I understand that they didn't spend it last year and they had it and they're they put some things off.
I get it. But I'm just reminded. But you also have to remember that we also put into effect the permit the remove and uh replace and an arborist needs to start reviewing that there's over 20 >> which is good news is that um you know the word is getting out that we need a permit when you remove a tree and
replace that's a great point. >> So the numbers have from five to 20 and hopefully this year there's work done people will actually do that. So I I understand and that's one of the things I push back on is you haven't spent the money so how can you ask for more money? So and
>> and Barbara they will they will assess what to to Lisa's point the you know the the needs and then the the wants. Um I feel like a very significant need is what we experienced on the street where there was uh roots of the trees that grew into you know water pipes and then ended up being a very big fix in the
middle of the road. And so trees like that being addressed a need. Yeah, like >> the roots. Exactly. Going into pipes and and causing infrastructure issues. So, cool. Thank you. >> I just wanted to say out loud and I appreciate it.
>> What uh what percentage of that 92850 is the arborist? >> Only 10,000 is budgeted for the arborist. >> What's the rest for? >> Um removal of trees. That's Jerry's budget. Um to remove trees throughout the year. And again, if he doesn't use
doesn't need it, he doesn't use it. >> Projected it's not. >> And the other part um is planting. And last year because of the drought, right, um situation and this year they're trying to figure out a way that we can water because we do not have a watering truck and it's I know trees that were
planted on the the um school ground ended up dying because of the drought situation. So, they're being careful, which is good. >> They're being responsible. I appreciate that. Thank you. Okay. So, if we go to our three spreadsheets, I've given you three
scenarios so you can see what happens to your surplus moving forward based on Go ahead. >> I'm sorry. Before we move forward, does everyone understand that um with the engineering and how that went up a certain amount and it has to do with our
permitting for uh uh water quality and flooding? Um we have a a permit that um and so right now it's sitting in the ED engineering um uh budget line item and we could potentially um have a regional
approach depending on in on February 4th we're going to find that there's 11 towns that um are involved in this regional report and depending on approach depending on how many towns actually sign on that will um depend on
the cost. So, we could potentially have that as an option. >> Yes. I just wanted to make sure people understand that that money isn't sitting in the engineer, but potentially could be a regional approach. Okay. Thank you. Okay. >> Okay. Spreadsheets. So, there's three
scenarios. Okay. >> One is a seven cent tax increase and zeros after that. One is a 3.5 cent tax increase for 2026 and 2027. and then zeros after that. And then the third one
is a 0 cent tax increase. Okay, the if you look at this, the estimates are based on the tax assessor's estimate for what he thinks assessed value is going to increase to as well as what he thinks added assessments are going to be. Added
assessments go directly into surplus. So that's a number that's important for us. Added assessments have gotten le have decreased over time. Assessed value is not increasing a lot until perhaps 2030.
And even that's not some of the bumps we've had in the past. Um operating budgets will continue to go up unless something happens with inflation. Um and I don't see our revenues really increasing much over, you know, the next
five years. So with that in mind, I've given you these three different scenarios. If you look at what's happening with the replenishment of surplus each year, it's okay for 2026 because we are looking to
get money from our reverse tax appeals, which is what our tax assessor came in and spoke to the township committee about, and he's estimating approximately $1.3 million in one year. But after that, we're not going to see that 1.3
every year. That's a one-time thing. Okay. So, >> how often do they do they reassess? >> Well, a reval, I mean, we haven't done in years. Um, he does go do a compliance plan, which is to go to different areas
and re-evaluate things. Um, but again, the warehouses, this reverse tax appeal is a one-time thing, and then that should all be where it's supposed to be. What could happen in the future is the warehouses if things go down, rents go down, they'll come in and appeal and
then our ratables will go down and we may owe money back which we've never had to do before. But that's something we have to be careful of in the future. Um, but right now we're not anticipating any of that over the next five years. So with all of those scenarios, here's
where we are, right? Um, and if you'll see by the end of 2030, if you don't continue to increase taxes, and I can't tell you by how much right now each year, but if you don't continue to increase, you're going to run out of
surplus eventually. It's it it it's going to happen because we just don't have any big increases to our readables now like we did in the past. weren't have any big pilot amounts coming in
that we weren't anticipating. Um, this can fluctuate a little bit here and there, but overall got to be careful what you're doing with surplus. Um, so with that being said, that's why I gave you three different scenarios. You can
slice it and dice it any way you want, but increase an increase really has to happen this year. It's going to have to happen again next year, probably. Um, slow but sure, um, I did give you a spreadsheet that tells you the average
assessed household is 623,833. Right? >> If we do a three and a half cent tax increase, that's for the average household is 20 about $235 per year, $19.54 per month. You're using though $4.3
million of your surplus. So you're using more than half of your Seven cent tax increase is $42 per year. That's $40 per month. You're using 3.5 million of your
surplus. So less than half of your surplus 0 tax increase, obviously zero increase to the residents, but you would have to use almost $5 million of your surplus to do that. Denise, in 2029, 2030 if with a 0% increase,
there's a negative surplus. How how do you do that? >> You can't. >> Okay. Just just so I'm clear. >> That last day. >> Thank you for pointing that out. >> We're we're we're not the federal government. >> So, yeah. >> No, that's really important. That's
really an important point. >> You have to be able to balance your budget. So, what will happen is you'll have to increase your taxes a lot. And >> there is a cap on how much you can increase your taxes. We've been really lucky that we've never come near that cap. Um, but there is a cap. And so, it
might be to a point where they're like, you can increase your taxes by 10 enough surplus to balance it. So, then you're in trouble. And that's not going to happen. You'll make sure every year that doesn't happen. But >> well,
>> let's pretend like spreadsheet doesn't exist, >> right? Can you can you speak to the past practices? Um, we haven't raised taxes in a while and we did actually uh taxes were decre decreased um several years ago. Can you speak to what that decrease
was? What the tax decrease was the year that we did it? Is that what you're asking? >> Yes, it was >> it should be on the tax rate. So that was 3 cents. That was 003. Here we are down here. We went from 38
to 33. So 5 cents. >> 2024. >> 20. >> So we decreased by 5 cents. >> 5 cents. >> Mhm. >> And before that we decreased 10 cents in like 2016. >> Uh >> 2018 2017.
>> Yeah. >> It's a really long spreadsheet of mine. >> Yeah. I remember a 10-centent decrease, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, we had a reval back in 2007. So, that's why you see your tax rate go
from 085 to 0.35 because of the reval that we had with all the warehouses, right? >> Yeah. So, it changed the whole tax rate. >> Um, and then it, you know, went up a little bit, a little bit, a little bit. The most it was was 48 and then it went
down to 38 and then down.3 drop. >> Right. So now we're looking at if we were to do a seven cent you're going to be up around 46 from 38. >> So we're back to >> Well, we're back to where we were in
2018. >> Wait, so we're back to what what year again? Can you say that again? >> 2018 was the last time we had 48. >> Right. So, so we we have realized this tax rate before. >> Yeah. >> But then our assessment
was in the city. >> No, our readable goes up every year. It goes up every year. >> The average assess >> um that goes up slightly every year too. Not a lot. It's been around six something 600 and something thousand for
the last several years. >> The average. >> I mean, think about it because look at how many single family homes we built. Yeah. Right. >> Yeah. Was in warehousing >> 48 back then is not the same as 48 now because of the assessed >> value average household.
>> Yeah. I mean >> so I mean it's a matter of what you want to do. I honestly don't think people are going to be that shocked by $482 more a year. $120 a quarter, $40 a month, and you're using 3.5 of surplus.
I mean, I just get concerned if the reverse tax bills don't happen next year. Now, you're looking at a bigger debt payment as well next year because you have to go out to bond that you're not used to yet. I I I just want you to be as conservative as you possibly can
with surplus. And I think using 3.5 is not conservative, but because we're never going to replenish 3.5 in a year. So, we're going to use more than we're going to replenish for sure. >> If the reverse appeals doesn't happen next year, could happen the following year, or they just could never happen.
No. >> Um, >> it's agreed upon or >> it's not set yet, but the tax assessor seems pretty confident that we'll get it. We also have costs that may increase without us necessarily having planned for it. And my mind continuously goes to
litigation. >> Um we seem to everybody seems to want a piece of this um government at this point. >> And also our affordable housing capital could be more than we're anticipating right now. >> Exactly. >> Could be. I I it's um when we talk about
what's necessary, I I think that for me, this is kind of where I sit like it's we have to run a town and it's necessary for us to be able to do that now and in the future. >> Denise, do you recall, I know we have the rate, but do you recall what the um
based on the the calculation for a household would have been in the past couple years? No, not I mean well in the past couple years we didn't increase taxes, right? So it would have been the same. >> Okay. >> Would have been the same. >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. >> And when does the uh reverse appeal get added in? >> Hopefully surplus next. Well, it'll be happening in 2026. So you'll see it at the end of 2026 as replenishment. Okay. for 2027. >> Your second forecast where there is a
3.5 >> and then a 3.5, >> right? So that requires the following TC to be on board with this decision also. >> Well, correct. >> And for me, even that's a question meaning like >> and really I mean these are estimates to
give you an idea of what's going to happen if you if you're not conservative. But every year you're going to have to look at your budget increases, your revenue, what the assessed value actually did, and how much you replenish your surplus for.
>> So yeah, so the the three and a half is kind of just a nice thing to look at because you can't look at the second year because to the man's point that TC would have to approve a three and a half or a another five and a half or another seven depending on where we land. or nothing.
>> So yours or nothing, right? Yeah. Which seems unlikely, >> right? But >> I'm just saying >> so the three and a half's >> still just a three and a half for this year. We're not we're not committing a future TC. >> If we unilaterally approve this budget,
>> we and and we're all in favor of it. >> Oh, I'm sorry. >> If if we unilarally approve this budget, the landscape of our TC will only change by one member. But we are also still trying to forecast what their decision might be.
>> Well, it it would be at least four of us would be part of that decision for 2027. Correct. >> Changing 12. >> Exactly. >> No, no. I I'm just saying theoretically >> theoretically you're right. Yes. >> Like if if we're if this is predictive, >> all right, and we're basing our decision
today on this information being for the most part accurate. >> Agreed. You would say that you're really if you're approving the three and a half and three and a half, that's what you'd be proving, right? And the >> but we only really can approve the three and a half for this year. Next year's TC
has to approve that. >> Yeah, we have to prove it again. I'm just saying >> and so and and they have to be on you have to have a majority be on board in that next year. >> See the numbers too. >> Correct. >> So >> we all are in agreement we need a tax
increase. >> Correct. >> Okay. So it's whether it's 3.5 or seven at this or it could be something else >> in between >> in between um or less than 3.5 but that would be really irresponsible. You came up with the number seven from some from
some mechanism. Can you share with us that mechanism? >> We're using $3.5 million of surplus. I'm comfortable that we would still have another 4.5. I'm comfortable having more than half because I'm not sure what's
going to happen moving forward. If we do three and a half, we're using another 800,000 of surplus. That worries me a little bit. That's why I sat at the seven cents.
>> Well, and even at the seven, 2030 looks not great. We we we haven't had a surplus percentage versus budget of less than what less than 30% since 2016
>> and we'd be looking at under 15% in 2030 with a 7% increase. That's I' I'd be hardressed to suggest going below seven cents. >> Yeah. I mean, we could have gone more than seven, but I thought that would be sticker shock to everyone. Even though
dollars wise, it's really not. But I felt like that might be too much to handle. And I also have to watch too because there's a levy cap, right? So, you can only go up so much. But I still have over a million dollars in the levy cap that I could spend on taxes. So, we're fine with the seven cents or more.
But, >> and and you know, to to the point that yes, all of our costs are going up, right? just like everybody else's, we're also a cost for everybody else. >> So that's that's the that's the challenging dynamic and the balance we have to play. But I don't see I don't see how we can go less than the seven
cents. >> What is and we talk about bond rating. Are there any thresholds where our bond rating all of a sudden gets knocked down? I mean, listen, the more surplus you use versus what you replenish, the harder the bonds, uh, you know, the
banks will look at it when they're going out to give you your bond rating and to give you your interest rate. Um, they can see a history of a large surplus here. Um, there's a balance between how much you use and how much you don't use that they look at and they like to see
at least 25% of your budget sitting in your surplus. As far as best practices, what do you know? Like what's Robinville surplus? What's Westwind? >> No. No. I No idea. >> Okay. >> No idea. I mean that South Brunswick
didn't do the right thing for many years and now they're transitional aid, which means that the state had to come in and provide them relief >> in order to balance their budget. And with that, the state also mandates and regulates everything they do. Is that a strategy?
>> They can't where is this way? >> They can't they can't spend they can't do a purchase order for certain things >> without getting approval from the state. That's how >> I think >> we don't want to be in that situation. >> No. >> What if I mean I'm going to throw it out
there but >> I'm just looking at the the impact on the average person, right? if we did seven this year and then nothing in the out years. But I mean,
>> well, I mean, you're going to be in trouble. >> No matter again, we're going to be in trouble again. So, the seven is also not going to be enough long term. Um, >> if you if you wanted to get to that, >> well, I mean, I think if you do seven
now and you do four next year and then and then you see how things look, >> you could potentially maybe if if you get the reverse tax bills, if we have some influx into surplus, we weren't anticipating added assessments for some
reason going crazy. Um then you could look at okay then two that's why I feel like at this point it's going to be a um yearbyear between now and your next round of affordable >> to your guys point of future TC considerations right >> between now and the next round of
affordable hous >> we can only control what we're deciding today within this year you know which is >> one of the things that Rob you said is that we're all in experiencing every resident is experiencing increases Okay. Yes, we can't say what next year
PC is going to do, but hopefully they're responsible and they see these numbers. So to edge into it by doing a three and a half with the knowledge that there will be more increases, people can then certainly plan
tax increases that I'm just putting it out there. Yes, I understand the 7% hit is needed and but it just seems like we'll be slightly under like um so we be using more than half. So we'd be using
40 4 million 4.3 million um if we do a three and a half and 3.5 million it's basically 1 million um of our surplus um would be have to be used for 3.5 cent
tax increase. So, I'm just putting it out there that maybe a gradual increase might be more beneficial for >> I'm not sure that the public really understands when you tell them a three and a half cent versus a seven cent tax increase. You really have to lay it out in numbers to >> Yeah, I was going to say, you know, it's
40 bucks a month for your average assessed property of 623,000. versus 20 versus 20ucks >> $20 more a month really if you do math on whatever your assessed value is of your home and you have to calculate your own number that way and and gauge your
impact. But there are also some retired people whose houses went up in, you know, in cost and and they're on a fixed income and it may seem like, oh, you have a higher assessed house and you're paying more though, too, um, because of
these taxes, the seven tax increase. Um, yes, it's the average home, but there are people that are on fixed incomes where their houses have increased without them realizing that they would increase so much. And um I'm just thinking of elderly people.
>> Think about it that as well as again your electricity bills like you know just the cost of everything your health care food everything has gone up. >> This isn't everything has gone up. So this isn't punitive to the residents of which we are residents in this town and
it's not a decision that is um it's the cost of running the town at this point and yes affordable housing has tipped us over the edge and I hope the state understands that that's a mechanism that's a burden they've not a burden it's a responsibility but yet a burden also but every town must be having this
conversation at this point I have to imagine because this round although exorbitantly expensive for us has had to been expensive for other towns too. um it is the cost of running this town and Denise to your um you make this comment about how you could have actually given us numbers higher than 7% and I
appreciate I I appreciate your foresight in keeping it um conservative but yet uh secure hopefully for our future because that security is a very uh important piece and when we talk about how we set things up for future TC's
that's what we're doing right now >> and keep in mind you did decrease taxes by 10 cents >> twice right? 10 cents and then 4 cents. So I know that that's why I had asked you that pointed question. um at the time that we could taxes were decreased and no one's to say that in the future
maybe a decade down the road maybe less that that can be realized rerealized but at this point this town has to be run and it has to be run responsibly and um our decisions are ex our decisions no our um our burdens are expensive
>> and I I look back at the history and again it's not to Monday morning quarterback any decision but there's there's a combination of things that brought us here. There's decisions from 10 years ago. I mean, look at how the the warehouse decision, look at how the
conservative approach to open space and preservation that was used. Some of those things are like so well intended, but they have consequences that no one could have predicted down the line and how formulas were going to be calculated. And so, there's a combination and a perfect storm, some in
a good way and some in a terrible way that have brought us to this point. But I think at the end of the day, I I agree, we have to set the town up to be to have an approach that if anything were to happen here, uh, you know, that
could this town in an emergency, that's what that surplus is for. It is a reserve and it's to be be there to protect the town from fiscal collapse, >> right? And looking at those numbers when you're breathing in I mean the three and a half at $187,000
doesn't feel like we're protecting the town. >> No. No. >> I mean as a as a resident I want to contribute to the health of the town. I I you know and I'm I hate that we're discussing it but again if we do this now then maybe we
replenish our surplus in a way that surprises us and you know then then you could look at a decrease >> maybe when they start digging for the foundations for the affordable housing will strike oil >> strike oil >> there's gold in that land >> you never know
>> thermal energy thermal energy >> yeah I I mean listen I' I'd also ask residents to keep in mind We have wildly lower taxes than surrounding towns and we provide an a a an awesome place to
live both from a school perspective, from a township perspective. There's value in what you're paying in your taxes, right? And I think there's there's something to be said there for the way that this has been managed over the years. to some extent we may have been paying too little for quite some
time and that's how we end up in a spot like this plus the affordable housing requirements etc etc um that being said I think I can project the number two right and if it were to be a 10% tax increase it'd be about $60 a month right so like all of those things we can sort
of work out in our heads but it it does seem like the reasonable path >> I think u Rob you really brought up a really good point too you brought up that we don't know what the school is going an increase that could potentially be >> nor the county for that >> nor the county. So we have to take like
I know we're trying to take care of the town but we have to keep it in perspective of all the bills that are going potentially going up which will most likely happen because salaries need to increase etc etc and health care etc. So I think we need to look at this holistically and um you know
holistically as a resident too that people are on as I'm going to say there are quite a few people on fixed incomes and um you know if if we can ease it in I I that's my preference >> there are programs for property tax
freezes etc right for >> foren seniors and yeah >> state New Jersey it's property tax free for seniors so I I mean I would you know a >> so there's a good portion of those folks who are on fixed incomes who are seniors who will have their taxes frozen or
>> well that's a whole another story that's a whole different calculation because correct >> that's dependent on >> yes >> this uh less I have it up here less than $500,000 and the maximum rebate of 13,000
>> so you know if you're making 500,000 you can afford $40 a month >> I'd agree Yeah. Um, yeah. I I think the important thing that we have to remember and that the the town's folks who are listening in or will watch later is that, you know, we're doing this for the
fiscal health of the town in which we live in and we're raising all of our taxes today. Um, and you know, the goal being to make it a sustainable and desirable place to live 5 years, 10 years, 15 years from now. So, I I think it's important that we do this. Um, just
a little anecdote. I went to go park my car New Jersey Transit Monday. >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. The parking went from $7 to to 1375, >> which is like, you know, I just did the numbers. It's, you know, uh
>> my math skills are not amazing, but I'm pretty sure it's about a 100% increase. >> Yeah. Yeah. And it's, you know, 12 almost $1,300 a year for the same parking spot. Um point being, like we're doing this to invest in the town. And if you watch this budget process, we we
comb through every dollar and we account for every dollar and we don't spend like drunken sailors. We do it responsibly, you know. So I I think that um I'm I'm for seven. Um I think it's a smart thing to do.
>> Okay. So I guess we'll straw poll seven. Uh >> I'm a yes on that. >> Okay. Matt's a yes. >> Yes. >> I'm a yes. Okay. Lisa, you Barbara. >> Uh, I'm for a three and a half knowing
that over time we would have to do it, but I lost. So, >> okay. >> It's not a loss. >> It's not a loss. I'm with you. I struggle with it because because um what I'm afraid of exactly what you brought up is that it can change and we can only
control what we do here today. And if the decision is made for no increase next year, >> right? >> That's what that's what worries me. It worries me that we don't have control over the next step. >> I struggle with it. >> Tax is $24,000.
So if you're doing seven cents, that's 1.4 million. And that's basically what our capital improvement fund is. That's what pushed our operating budget over. So we're basically funding the affordable housing with the tax. And um I think it's important to highlight for the public that this was not a mayoral
decision. This is a township committee decision based on numbers crunched by our financial adviserss. >> Thank you for that. >> I think it's okay. >> Yeah. I just think that people that have been in their homes, they have seen their assessed values increase significantly. Yay. Great. But also
they're on fixed incomes and that's something that just needed to be considered. That's all. And I appreciate everyone's input and I support it. >> Okay. So, we're at public comment.
>> Okay. Nope. He's just here to watch. >> He doesn't have tomatoes to throw at us. That's a good sign. >> Okay. Closing public comments. Okay. >> Okay. >> And
are you entertaining a motion to adjurnn or not yet? >> Motion to adjurnn. >> Yes. So, >> thank you all for being in favor. I I