WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=EmQjfw4oLUs

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: EmQjfw4oLUs):
- 00:00:06: Closing Public Meeting and Adjourning for Workshop
- 00:01:23: Brief Discussion on Building Temperature and Maintenance
- 00:01:50: Opening the City Commission Workshop - Roll Call
- 00:06:55: Discussion on Firewatch Organization and Veteran Support
- 00:09:10: Golf Carts, Ebikes, and Micro-mobility Devices Discussion Begins
- 00:15:53: Liability Insurance Concerns for Golf Carts on Roadways
- 00:23:29: Amending Ordinance to Suit City's Needs and Regulations
- 00:28:53: Updating and Mirroring State Laws on Golf Carts
- 00:31:12: Discussion about 308 and DOT Authorizations to Cross Highways
- 00:37:03: Designating Locations on 308 for Golf Cart Crossings
- 00:41:08: Accessibility Issues and Requesting County Approval for Crossings
- 00:44:10: Changing Sunrise and Sunset Restrictions; Lights Needed
- 00:45:19: Consideration of Sidewalk Usage by Golf Carts; Safety Concerns
- 00:49:33: Special Event Golf Cart Rentals, Business Licenses, and Enforcement
- 00:55:58: Golf Cart Usage After Dark, Safety Equipment, and Time Limits
- 01:02:29: Draft Ordinance Goals and Discussion on Ebikes and Scooters
- 01:06:00: Draft Proposal Discussions and Mini Bikes All Over Town
- 01:08:26: Mirror State Laws and Sidewalk Usage for Ebikes
- 01:10:08: Discussion About Rented Golf Carts During Events
- 01:20:49: Update on Appropriation Requests with Representative Sapp
- 01:25:04: City Manager Update on Clerk Hire and Finalists
- 01:27:30: Upcoming Workshop and Discussion on Policy Manual
- 01:33:04: Discussion on Calendar Scheduling for Meetings and Workshops
- 01:34:39: Budget Workshop Schedule Discussion and Preliminary Discussion
- 01:38:39: Bat Mating Season, Wildlife Information, and Adjournment


Part: 1

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I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to open back up the close portion of the meeting. >> That's all. >> Okay. At this time, I'm going to close the uh closed portion of this meeting. I'm going to open it up to the general public

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and um everyone is in agreement. We're going to ask for any public comment. If there is any public comment, please come forward. State your name and your address if you will. Seeing no one come forward, I'm going to

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close public comment. At this time, um commissioners, I would entertain a motion to adjurnn. I move that we adjourn. >> Do I have a second? Second proper motion and a second. I'll do a voice of voice

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vote. All in favor, please say I. I. >> Opposed? Nay. >> Okay. Commissioner Lori made the motion and Commissioner Devito seconded to adjourn. This meeting is now. It is approximately 311. Thank you.

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Um, >> so we need to hand these materials back. >> Yeah. Are we giving these to the city manager? >> Just to manager. Yeah. >> This the jail barren house. >> Okay.

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That sound temperature. >> It is cold. Are you cold? >> I mean, it is, but it does turn off. >> I can go I can go real fast and turn it. Open up the workshop while he does that. Okay. >> That's what mayor. >> Yes.

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>> Is my understanding when we're comfortable the people on that end of the building get warm. Is that how that works? >> No, we're I think we're separate. >> Oh, okay. >> What do you mean we have two different >> Yeah, I think there's different because like when this one went down, they weren't they weren't dealing with it

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over there. Is that correct, Derek? >> Derek, ma'am, >> that this is that they have a whole different system over there. >> They do. one outside of your office is and my office is this. Yes, ma'am. >> And I tell you what, it's hot outside and they fixed it and it's been working.

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>> Yeah. >> It's never worked like this since I've been here. It's really working. >> That's surprising what a really small little tiny, you know, part can do and how much it cost. >> Yes.

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And I'll still continue to promote the fact that we need to have a maintenance program on those conditions when they're checking this out. >> Yeah. >> Every six months. >> Defer maintenance program. >> We've been paying a lot to replace this to replace units. That should never have been broken.

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>> Yeah. >> You got check the drain lines once or twice a year >> and you need to check the filter, change the filters, too. Yeah. >> That you have to do every month. People blow their pictures out all the time because they never changed the filters on it,

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>> right? 1938 320 stuff. >> 1938. >> Oh, what? >> Yeah. That's why we're talking about it. >> Yeah. Yeah, I know. >> This place matters sign. >> Um Oh, she wants a this place matters

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sign. Okay. >> That's nice. Well, I thought I thought she was asking for >> No, that's what she had asked about and Dan. >> So, you know, I live up the street. Our house is built in 1926. It's 100 years

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old this year. >> Happy You have a birthday party for it. >> We are. We are going to have birthday. >> I was joking, but Okay, >> I'm serious. >> No, we're going to have a party for it. >> That's cool. But if you read the latest survey that

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was done, then you will know is important. If you want your house to retain its historic character, you be careful of the changes that you make to the outside structure, which we have tried to tend to, but I have no idea what effect our roof has

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had. >> Our roof got too, >> right? And a lot of us do just because of the storms. >> Okay. >> I have one too, but my house was built in 1999. >> On YouTube, right?

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>> All right. Um, >> we recorded on YouTube. >> Yeah. >> That's fine. Thank you, though. >> Even though we adjourned, the meeting was adjourned, so you should stop it. >> I just started it. I know, but that's

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all we needed to have was that open session part. >> She's getting ready for workshop, >> but still she needs to end this, start a new one for the workshop. Oh, she had to turn us off. Okay. So, at this time, if everybody ready, I'm gonna

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open up our workshop. Um, this is a city commission workshop. The date is Wednesday, April 15, 2026. It's approximately 3:16. Um, and do you want to do a roll call

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quickly? Commissioner Burton I sorry here here >> present >> Mayor Myers >> present. >> Okay. >> City manager Derek Martin city attorney

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>> here. >> Bonnie L >> here. >> Captain Major Usher >> here. Oh, Captain Major. >> Captain Major. >> That's a new That's a new title. I like that.

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>> I like that. Okay. >> Okay. So, we are here today to discuss golf carts, ebikes, and electric scooters. Um, Mr. Martin has stepped out for just a moment. in his absence. I do want to

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bring I had a meeting yesterday um with someone and this is just forformational purposes. It is the uh firewatch and it's for veterans. And so he's asked about doing training

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um locally for the people in the community just so that um to be able to help out veterans that are, you know, in need or in crisis. Um, and so I told him that we would look into into this. I would mention it to all of you. Um, and

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it's not just for veterans, but it's to help also with suicide. Um, to be able to identify and to and to help or to at least alert. And um, he would do the training completely free. and uh we talked about possibly doing it

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at some point in it's about a 30 to 45 minute training session, maybe doing it sometime in the summer. Um he said he would come in May and just kind of give us an overview an overview of the of the services that they provide. So anyway,

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with that >> was the organization. It's called Firewatch. >> Firewatch. Firewatch. >> Firewatch. I've got the brochures on it so I can hand those out. first. >> Um, he said he came I think he I believe he went over to their Christian service

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center and he said he spoke to a veteran and the veteran felt as if he had nobody in the community um cared and that the veterans had nowhere to to to go here in our community. So, I shared with him that we have quite a few veterans and

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and that we have um it would be good that that they all know, you know, who they are and hopefully this be a way to possibly bring them together as well. So, anyway, with that, I'm going to turn it over to you. You've got

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before us. This is regarding golf carts. Coordinates on golf carts. >> Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. And I apologize to the commission. I didn't put a briefing sheet together, but it's pretty self-explanatory where we're at. I believe um you all know that the use of golf carts and the use of ebikes and

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other um micro uh microbility um devices are being used. And I say micromobility because that's what's being used in the Senate Bill 382. You all have a copy of that in front of you here. Um, Commissioner Devito had provided this to

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me. Um, I believe it was yesterday or this morning. I wanted to make sure everybody had a copy of that. There's some discussion right now providing the requirements for operation of electrical bicycles and prohibiting use of those electrical bicycles above certain speeds. I think it's something for our discussion today. There's also um this

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document in front of you all um that was provided as well and that's also talking about the Florida eBike laws in 2026. Currently under section 30-48 um is our operation and I'm sorry let me go up a little further. Article two of

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golf carts um section 30-47 has our definitions on golf carts. This is in our um current ordinance in the meeting code. Section 30-48 has the operation and then of course violation of penalties under section 3049 while we're also given a copy of

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that. And today's discussion is to discuss how we can um make sure that we safeguard um the rights of course of our residents but also have some limitations and guard safety for everybody including themselves moving forward.

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>> Um mayor if I could. >> Yes. So, I I did a memo on this back in 2023 and then I believe we either discussed in a meeting or had a workshop. We had a

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workshop um and Commissioner Burton passed out some material from the Florida high department of highway safety and motor vehicles and we have discussed several areas in which our ordinance

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apparently was for golf carts. ebikes weren't under the discussion, but our ordinance um is not up to date with the current statute and also things that we either haven't done or need to do. So,

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we've discussed that previously. Um and I made some notes, others may have notes, but when you look at I think our golf course cart ordinance only has two sections. Is that right? 3048 and 3049.

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>> Three total sections, definitions, operation, and the violations and penalties. >> Right. There's 47, 48, and 49. >> Yes. >> Right. So, um, frankly, I haven't, um, I haven't reviewed this would be something, I guess, for our legal

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counsel to do. I haven't reviewed whether our definition of golf cart still matches with the state statute definition. Um, but I'm pretty sure that um there's

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updated state statute on who can operate a golf cart and that it's not um it's not just anyone 14 years and older. >> Um so we probably want to update that.

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Um, okay. Liability insurance. Um, we've said that, well, this is one concern I have. that says we don't allow item um 3048 PN 3

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says you can't operate a golf cart on Highway 17 but it can golf carts can cross were authorized and posted by the state department of transportation um to my knowledge I don't know if we ever got that authorization but it's not posted

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>> no there's there's no crossing sign that's >> really >> how long it's from an annex. >> Yeah. Commissioner Burton worked on you worked on this extensively with highway safety. >> I did.

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>> Um so they um you can cross I believe >> at major. Can you weigh in on this and help us a little bit? >> The only one that I'm aware of is the one up north here. I haven't seen the one down south anywhere. Unless there's another one that I've seen.

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>> Okay. So, >> they were at right near the post office. >> Is that where it is? >> I thought that's where it was. There's I thought that was a girl crossing sign there. >> Maybe there's one there. >> I know there's one right here in front

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of the annex. So, as you're approaching southbound, it shows a golf cart. >> You can crossify the light. The light is Yes. We could always cross it for always. >> Well, that was the only place we could cross,

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>> right? So, so unless they've opened it up or put some new signs somewhere, I'm just >> I say something about the liability insurance. I missed that. They required carry liability insurance on that. >> Yes, they do. Um our our ordinance our ordinance requ

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our ordinance is requiring that um that we carry liability or that they whoever's driving it carries liability insurance um >> because and this is a personal matter but I'm inquired on getting one of the street food ones actually put the tag and everything like there's no way I would pay that kind of insurance money

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for be operate a golf car on the roadway. It is very expensive. >> Oh okay. But that's very important because um I I looked into this and the the highway safety and motor vehicle um documents that Commissioner Burton

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passed out when golf cart I believe means golf cart which is not a street legal >> exactly >> vehicle. Um, and so because street legal actually the technical term is low-speed

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vehicle, a golf cart is not a low- speed vehicle. >> Correct. >> Well, no, a golf cart can be a low speed vehicle. >> Mine is. >> Well, yeah, but I mean, I have a new golf cart and I can drive it at 9 miles an hour. Okay. I have a click for that. Or I can drive it at 26 miles an hour.

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>> Okay. Well, all I know >> So, so I have, you know, wherever you are, you can >> Okay. make some adjustments. I guess >> the last I saw in highway safety and motor vehicle definitions and documents, your street legal,

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they were calling low speed vehicle. That's the one where you have to have tag and maybe your insurance is different for what's called golf cart, which is what our ordinance addresses because if you're street legal, you're street legal. >> Um, >> and the golf cart is the same. you can

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actually get insurance on it. But when you put it on, when you tell them that you're going to be operating on a roadway, >> right, >> that's when it becomes extremely expensive to operate these things and that's why I was deferred away from >> Right. But that's why you want a golf

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cart. That that is why communities have these ordinances that allow the >> the golf what is technically defined as a golf cart because you don't need a tag and your insurance is less.

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>> Put it on if you put it on the roadway, right? >> Even though you're on a low speed vehicle when you your insurance can you tell your insurance company that it's going to be put on the roadway, right? that is going to be used on the roadway. That is not that is not the cheap

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insurance. The insurance you're speaking of is like if you're keeping it on your own property when you tell them that you're going to be driving it on the road. And that's what I want to get a definition on because if I encounter someone and I ask for their insurance on their golf cart because they have, let's say they ran a stop sign, they committed a traffic violation and they show me

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that they have an insurance policy that is for private property. That's not private property. Unless you guys are going to deem some type of an exception there that they have sometimes different insurance because that's a total different insurance. And that's just one of the things I went into when I went to purchase myself and that's when I went on to looking at some of these

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communities that have some of these ordinance in place that you can operate them on. I know the county just passed an um an area on horse landing. We just had a fatality. >> Yes. >> About a month ago. >> Yes. And uh it was just you know just months after we just enacted that golf

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cart community per se that they were not building but if I'm not mistaken that ordinance also said they had to have liability insurance. That's when I started looking into liability insurance. If you put it on a roadway where vehicles travel is extremely expensive. So there's a different type of different type of insurance.

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>> Now one of the major places where golf carts are used okay villages. I mean, they go everywhere in the villages, but they actually have their own little roadways for the most part, you know, and they cross the main intersections where they where they should kind of like where we would cross at the light

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and and and that's just like a totally different little world over there, you know. >> They have overpass and under process. Yeah. >> What's that? >> They have underprocess question for you because I'm just looking out for the city. That's this one. If I stop someone and I see that they don't have this insurance that they

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are supposed to have this certain coverage, I guess that would be a question I you would probably refer to your legal counsel for. So if they're riding around with this different insurance and they get into an accident, could you guys be held responsible by not requiring to carry a certain insurance? >> And the other thing is, you know, city

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is 25 miles an hour, you know, through the city, correct? >> On the side, right on the side roads. I mean, that's really low speed. Um, that would be a golf cart kind of speed. Okay. 25 mph. Uh, and I think you can

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get up to 35 miles an hour. >> But no, not even the street ones there, they get up to 62 and 72. >> And that's just the ones that you want to put on the street. You don't have to. And again, I've done a lot of research on these things just because we're

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having some of those problems. um these these companies are starting to build build these very high performance motors for these things and stuff and people are using them and I what actually got me started on this was I was up in Jacksonville about 3 months ago and I'm driving down the road in a

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45 mile per hour zone one of these things passed me and I was like >> this is interesting. >> Yeah. >> And it's literally just that you put different programming on it and that electric motor will do whatever you want to do. So, I don't think that I don't think that's going to happen for the

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city. Just like any other thing, you can insure anything you want to. If you approve, you know, the scoopers and stuff on the streets and things like that. Um, if you're required to carry insurance on, you know, you got your age limits. The commissioner veto was very keen to see that was 14 years old

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allowing someone to drive one of these low speed vehicles in my opinion for the city of the liability. I I'm not positive, but I think Major Usray is interchanging terms that should not be interchanged. Our ordinance speaks to

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golf carts. That's in the definition. Our ordinance does not speak to lowspeed vehicles. Our ordinance says, Mayor, do you mind if I do this because it might shorten this discussion a little bit? >> Our ordinance says golf cart as defined

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by Florida statute 320.01 0122 means a motorized vehicle designed and manufactured for operation on a golf course for sporting or recreational purposes and is not capable of exceeding speeds of 20 mph.

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So, we're only this is our ordinance. We are exercising, as I understand it, the legislaturator's um permission for us to allow golf carts

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that don't exceed 20 miles an hour to operate in certain areas. >> And that was the only thing I was trying to point out was the insurance part of it. depending on what kind of requirements you're having. If you're carrying the insurance of a golf cart defined by Florida statute and you're operating it on a roadway, there are

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different types of insurance. If you're operating on a roadway, it is a very very expensive insurance. So, I just want to understand what where I'm looking at insurance. I could do a $2 policy on it or I could do a what mine was quoted a

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$2,200 policy. There's no way I pay a operate on roadway. Well, and the major brings up another good topic though is that people are and I see them in front of mine because they're always looking at the peacocks. So, I get them all afternoon. There are all different types.

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>> There's your golf cart like mine that really will not go up to 20 miles an hour. >> She actually uses her feet. And and then there are those that you know are zooming down the road that are the highowered ones that are on the street

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and they are performing as if they're just driving a golf. >> We've never had an issue, but just this year one of the things I've seen was um when they started renting >> Yes. >> all these golf carts on the side of the road for these events and that's where it it it's only going to get bigger.

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They rented those things out within about 45 minutes of pulling up >> that catfish. They had they had >> and that was $40. So I can only see if they made it that they sold out that fast, they're probably going to multiply. So that's kind of one of the questions I wanted to ask is when we have these events, these things like

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this, what I'm what I'm looking for, what I can enforce and what I can't. >> We've got various issues that we're going to have to probably talk about. Yes, Commissioner. >> Okay. But it seems to me we're trying to amend our ordinance to suit the city.

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I think what the major needs to do is either ask his attorney or our attorney about all these different kinds of vehicles because if it is a vehicle that does not fit this definition of golf

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cart, then that's not what we're talking about today. And as a commission, we can't really advise you if there's a vehicle out there that'll go 35 miles an hour and it doesn't have a tag or what kind of insurance. um that doesn't come within our golf

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cart ordinance within what the state is allowing us to do. We're just setting the parameters for people to use these little vehicles that are meant they're originally meant for golf course golf courses for recreational purposes and

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there's a limited window for us to allow them to be on the streets. That's what that's what we're trying to address. And I understand what you're saying, but this was written >> quite a while ago and we now currently are dealing with golf carts that are are

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souped up and bigger and better. But >> I can go with that. The only thing I'm talking about the insurance mayor any of >> Yes, Mayor. The Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles and the state statutes deal with those other vehicles.

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I don't think that the authorization this chapter 316 212 that allows local governments to let golf carts which are very specifically defined to be on

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roadways. They don't deal with those bigger souped up vehicles that I believe and this is why I want major user to check those are highway safety and motor vehicle issues. Those are only traffic issues. >> Yes. I'm only speaking of the golf cart

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that goes 9 miles an hour. That's what I'm speaking of. >> Okay. So, you want to know what kind of insurance? >> No. No. I said when you guys are are regulating, you said they're supposed to carry liability insurance. >> Yeah. If they carry liability insurance and they tell their insurance company that this low speed 9 mph vehicle is

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going to be operated on a roadway approved by the city commission of the city of present city, they have to carry a certain kind of insurance to operate that on roadway or they're in violation of Florida statute and that insurance just so we're all aware is is extremely

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expensive. Basically, all of us that do not have insurance right now on our little 9 mile hour golf carts need to go get it. That's what he's saying. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Again, you're just it's just like

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I don't know how to say it, but if you were to get stopped, >> right, >> and we were to say, "Hey, can I see your insurance for your thing?" And your insurance is not the policy that covers you to be operating this on a rope on roadway. You can't have your golf ball on the roadway even though

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you have enacted this policy that allows you to do that in the city of Cres City, but you have that stipulation on the insurance on there that you have to carry the insurance. If the insurance isn't on there, I could care less. So, I'm just looking out for >> No, that is part of our ordinance is that you have to have insurance. So, I think

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>> but maybe it shouldn't be. >> I think it absolutely should be. Well, I'm I am not so sure that that insurance is that expensive because I have insurance. It's not in the amount

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you said it was. And I was very clear with my agent what that golf cart was going to be used for. Very clear. >> Okay. And then those very fast ones, those have to have a license plate, right? >> Yes. >> I mean, if you have a golf cart community, you don't if mine goes 60

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miles, you do a number here. If mine go 60 miles an hour and I stay at 20 miles an hour, I'm perfect. I can care less. >> But I see you. So, exactly. >> Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. There's I That didn't sound

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right to me. When you said it, it's not according to our ordinance. It's not how fast you drive it, it's how fast it can go and what it's intended for. And I'm I'm really um I think we're

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suffering that we do not have the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicle handout that we had at the last workshop that Commissioner Burton brought us because it's very clear about that. It's it's not when I'm looking at our ordinance and it track it was

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enacted to track state law at that time. It's not how fast you drive it. It's what your vehicle is designed for. So I think that's what >> I think we're getting all kind of confused because

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you're defining in city. >> We only want golf carts that go 20 miles an hour. Is that correct? Is that what I'm reading? >> If that's what if that's what you guys Yes. And if you guys want me to enforce if you guys want me to enforce insurance on them, I just want to make sure we're

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enforcing insurance that covers them on the roadways. That's awesome. Yeah. >> And that's what our ordinance currently says. You have to have liability insurance. So, they don't have insurance. >> You know, his his little scooter here does what? Six miles. >> 6.2.

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>> I have insurance. >> And then and then the scooter that we call Cadillac man in town. His on the sidewalk going right beside you while you're going. >> I wish you went to a pastor. I don't know. Just bring him here to my house. It takes too long.

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not to. >> Well, so what do we want to do with this uh this this golf cart? We need to update it so that it so that it is >> so that it mirrors state law so that it so at least it it >> okay

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>> but also at the same time correct me if I'm wrong we can't weaken state law however if we need to for our purposes we can strengthen it >> restrict restrict it exactly so that's

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why I'm that's why I'm saying with those that can go those soup jets. Do we need to have something in here for that as well? That because I know it used to be that you couldn't even drive a golf cart in a in a on a road that was over 25

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this is years ago over 25 mile per hour speed limit. Um, so I I'm just we we're going to need some guidance, Leo, from I believe um you and and Dawn as to what we should and shouldn't do with our golf with

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these golf carts. Um, and there's more and more golf carts >> and this past weekend people were even bringing their golf carts in. And then we've got side by sides which are my understanding those are still absolutely not allowed. Correct. major side by

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sides. >> They're not allowed. We >> we do tolerate some of them if they're being >> Okay. >> And then some of these other uh and some of these and some of these that are these I mean the golf carts and

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stuff like that. We we know they do faster than 20 mph. Especially these newer golf carts. They tend to come up. They're even taking all trucks now that do the less than 20 miles hour because that's what they were designed to do. Made for made to do a

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certain speed to put a new controller on three times the speed, but they're they're made to do 20. So, we're going to force if it's going to 20 m hour, we can force that. It's obviously a violation of this. I was

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just looking more on the lines of these people coming in and bringing all these golf carts in. We tolerate said we tolerate side by sides. I even tolerate ATVs on the road. They're going slow. They're adults and they're not making any kind of rough. It's one of those it's one of those

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codes and let go. Says we can do something. Hey, take your go. >> Commissioner Moore, I just want to She had to um she had to go take care of picking someone up that had to be picked up at a certain time and then she's

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going to return it if we're still in session. Okay. >> And I'm gonna have to leave in about 15 minutes. >> I have something I would like to see us do. >> Commissioner, go right ahead. >> Okay. So, if the statute hasn't changed,

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um, it was my understanding and I think Commissioner Lori looked this up. It's in our minutes somewhere what we wanted to do. Um, we got sidetracked here. Um, as far as I know, the current statute,

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which is 316212, PR7, says that um, a golf cart can't be operated on public roads or streets by a person who is under 18 years of age or they have to

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be 18 years older or older unless you have a valid learners permit or valid driver's license. And then whatever it is, we need to make it the same as current state law.

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And apparently, you're supposed to basically if you're 18, you have to have photo identification, right? >> Yes. >> And if you're under 18, you have to have a

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learner's permit or a driver's license. So I would assume we would want to track state law. >> Well, we must we must track state law, >> right? So to me, we need to have an ordinance. We need to change our 30-8

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one where it says um 14 years or older and it should comply with state law. >> And how would we phrase that? Well, that's not our job. That's our hopefully our attorney will draft this ordinance and we'll make it comply with state law.

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>> Sorry, it would be under one where it says any person under the age of 14 years may not operate golf carts on city streets and that's where that language the requirements would be and that would be from the statute as statutoily

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directed. The last statute I saw was 3162127, but I didn't look up the 2025 version. Um, the I don't think we need to change anything about liability insurance, but

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again, it would not hurt to have the city attorney double check and make sure that that part is up to date. Um, and then I'm not clear, um, because we got on a different topic. PN3 says you

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can't operate the golf cart on Highway 17, and I think that's state law. Um, but it's permitted to cross where authorized and posted by uh, DOT. So, I wasn't clear exactly from what Commissioner Burton said. It since you

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contacted DOT, did they give us a new authorization or did we have an existing authorization? >> We when I was working at we I never got authorization. So, I'm not sure wherever we got the authorization from,

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>> but there's a sign >> there's a sign approaching this traffic light. Now, somebody just thrown a sign up and it's not DOT regulated. >> It's a DOT sign. I'm just saying that I never thought there were signs before, but I saw that one in front of it's right in front of the annex. So, it's

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traveling southbound on 17, >> but I mean, where did we grab it from and then put it over here? >> Well, we wouldn't necessarily do that. I guess >> um so that's what it kind of sounds like. >> We just need to identify wherever it is. Wherever it's identified and posted is

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what we would have because the people down at Wind Dixie um across the street at the same time you were dealing with them, they were dealing with them, they did not get that approved and they and they cross over. So I mean >> I just I just find it funny that all of a sudden we have a sign there and it

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would seem to me that FDOT would have made us aware that they were going to put a sign there. That's all I'm saying. >> Okay. So my question is can through our city manager can we verify with DOT where our authorized crossings are and

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if it's if they haven't authorized us to cross at the stoplight which I dearly hope they have um can we get that and do we want to ask DOT for any other authorized crossings that we could post but I don't know that for this policy

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that we need to have that to be that specific specific. It just needs to be just like it currently says to cross where authorized and posted by the state department of transportation. >> Okay. >> Right. But I'm saying as a followup um >> wherever.

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>> Okay. So the next one um they're not permitted to operate on 308 >> unless >> unless we designate locations and sign locations. And this is the issue that I brought up before. To my knowledge, have

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we designated any locations? >> Yeah. Um because I think and this is a question for our city attorney. If we're going to designate locations, do we need to do that in our ordinance

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or can we do that by a resolution? >> So, might as well put in the ordinance. >> What? Might >> as well put in the ordinance. >> You're not tucking into your blank. >> So, you might as well just put in the ordinance, the existing one. >> Um I mean, I don't have any objection.

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only have one document. >> Okay. I don't have any objection to that. Um but as far as I have never seen a sign anywhere else. >> There's not one there's not one. >> So if we're going to and and we'd have to go to the county to get the county's

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permission >> to I believe and that was um because LA has run into that same issue. Um, and so I believe we would have to go to the county and get the county's permission for where we could have any crossings or if we had any designated areas. That was

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my understanding from previous discussions. We'll have to just verify that, Leo, if you would. Is that your discuss your understanding to Commissioner Burton? Because on 308, you know, there's a section, okay, between um Grand Rondo and um uh

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>> Bay or or >> Well, right in that right in that area. Okay. Where where the restaurant is right there. Everybody there's a section right there where everybody uses that. Yes. >> Golf carts, bikes, >> Yeah. you know, you name it because

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there's a wide section there that kind of open and we just they've taken that over. I'm one person that drives right there, too. >> Yeah. >> So that I don't have to ride my car. But that that is a perfect place to designate that as a definite golf little

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>> and coming out of there, especially those people that live up in there, they don't have there's not a crossroad there for them to come across. So they would have to come across. We have a resident that has had an issue. He got stopped. Um but he he he crosses over there,

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comes down and then hits Grand Rondo. >> Exactly. >> And so because there's not a crossroad there for him to come. So from where he lived, so he would have to go further. I mean, most people are polite enough about it, but you know, let one person

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get hit by a car and >> then we're we're in a nasty city. Mayor, if I could. Um, one of my concerns previously was, um, if we don't officially create

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crossings on 308, then if we don't have a tagged golf, a tagged vehicle, then there's basically places that you really shouldn't be going, >> right? So to me, and you don't want

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people, as Commissioner Burton was saying, to get into a liability problem because they've crossed 308. Um, I think we need to find those places and get get approval to designate them. Well, yes.

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>> I mean, that's nobody's Absolutely. That's what we're saying, though. Right now, we don't have those places. Nothing is is specifically designated, >> right? So, are we going to >> So, we would need to do that. So, we need to ask the county, >> right? But to me, we need a place for

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people in Commissioner Lory's neighborhood, which applies to me if I want to go um to the Dollar General or Wendixie or wherever. I need a place to cross um >> 308

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>> 308. And really, you need a place that's either Walnut or Oakwood. And then you also need to be able to cross where the Circle K is, I think, um because you need a way to um to get to that access

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road that goes in front of Dollar General and the real estate office. >> So, we we need to talk to the county and see if we can >> Yeah. >> get that corridor >> and also crossing on 308. And I will I do want to share this though is that as

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you get up as you come up 308 and you're coming to Summit Street, >> you have a wide area as you go west on 308. As you come up there, it's very narrow. So, you're really having to be in the road. >> Yes. >> That is such a congested area that for a

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golf cart it to me it's very dangerous right there. But you know the place to to actually cross if you want to get over there >> to Dollar General >> is right at the Dollar General. So you you coming up let's say North Prospect and going up what is that road? I can't

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think of outlook >> Lake View Lake. >> So you come up Lake where I live >> and go over to the where I live at Magnolia. I have to go all the way down to the stop light here. Go across. Go all the way across. problem though and

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that's what >> okay but wait ask commissioner Burton >> is you're talking about someone on prospect crossing over 17 to go to Dollar General >> but DOT has not authorized their crossing there correct for

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>> they haven't authorized a crossing anywhere but the light basically >> okay so we can't legally we can't legally give an option to people to go around Prospect and cross 17 >> no but but we're just talking amongst ourselves, you know, that that these are, you know, you're trying to look for

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places to cross. >> Yes. then then you you need to kind of come up with and it's just like uh Michelle mayors has said that you know you have to kind of go up uh to Walnut Street you

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know so you're coming off or whatever that is and then you have to go up to Walnut Street because it gets really really narrow 309 right there before ride you say the cross over uh 308 8 to to

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get to that side. You really kind of can't cross over and then ride up right >> 308 to make that turn. So you So you just really have to take a drive and and figure out, you know, which way you want to do that. But um I wanted

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I would like to see some stop lightss, okay, where you actually could stop and some pedestrian crosses in between the stop lightss where you could actually push a button and go across the street. Why not? >> To me, it seems like our ordinance needs

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to be updated. We certainly need to correct the age. We should do what we can do, which one of them I think is pursuing with the county. Bless you, >> wherever we can, wherever we can cross.

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Um the other options that we've talked about um our ordinance in pend five says that uh golf carts can only be used between sunrise and sunset. >> I believe state law allows them to be

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used um >> if they have lights. >> If they have lights, >> properly working lights, >> right? And to me, I think that we should change that and allow people to use golf cart at night if they have the lights because in the winter especially,

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>> right, you can't really go anywhere in the evening, you can't go to Three Bananas. >> So, okay. So, we're we're together on sunrise and sunset. Um unless in number six I don't know um if state law has

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changed that just says you have to have the um >> the basic equipment. >> I don't see anything in there. Um >> so I but I do see something in I think

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I'm not sure. Um, I think that we could authorize golf carts to use sidewalks in some areas. >> You could use it's wide enough down on the south end of town on summit.

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>> Yeah. So, and then on the >> the sidewalks that are along the >> north end system. >> Yep. And on the northeast on the north end of town. >> Am I allowed to speak? >> Yes, absolutely. the uh you you do want to operate them at night time

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>> as long as they have proper lighting. >> Sometimes we get caught at night. >> That's when they get stolen. >> That's that's when they get what? >> Stolen. >> And if they if they if they are doing obeying the traffic laws and I have no reason to stop them at night, if I have

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a stolen golf cart that I don't know stolen and they're just driving down the road, I have to let them go by saying committed traffic violation. Well, let's mayor, if I could truly um I don't know what to do about that, but people

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like to use their golf carts to go like for example >> in the winter. I would like to go to dinner. I would like to go visit a friend. I'd like to be able to go to the Rotary meeting at the Methodist church, but I can't because the Rotary meeting at the Methodist church gets out after

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dark in the winter. So, it's not legal. Um, I think you raised a good point. >> 9:00, 10 o'clock. >> I mean, something start. >> Um, >> so, so you're saying to put a time limit

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that anything after 10:00 that no golf carts after 10:00 in the evening. Um, >> I'm I'm just using them. I'm looking at it from our aspect because if you let some if you allow them to go past this ordinance, they're going to go past this ordinance and it could be 2:00 in the

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morning. We see your golf cart going down the road and we really can't prove Well, I'm just >> So, it gives you an opportunity after a certain time that you can stop that golf cart and find out what's going on. I would rather get golf just and here's

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the thing is it's not really for the regular every day thinking is this going to happen but what I foresee is again and we use catfish festival as an example you have these golf carts out here and they knew they have those golf carts back by dusk that was a firm statement

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by us they had them back by dust like they were supposed to if they're allowed to stay out at night all those cars in cresant city all that congestion we just may have to make an exception that do we make an exception on those >> I'm sorry. We make an exception that on those events

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dust to dark or how how would you know type things >> mayor? I don't know what captain I mean major user is describing. I totally don't know what's going on here because I'll tell you what's going on here is

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during catfish a a hauler came in here and he dropped off how many golf carts? >> 40. 40 golf carts to people >> and up and down Main Street. There were golf carts everywhere. There were golf carts back over here at Catfish and they

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were down that finish. Let's talk. >> Um they were down here um all back over here too >> um on 308. >> So they were all over they were all over town. And so that's what he's saying is

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how can what what kind of mechanism can we put in place to help to assist >> those those golf carts they they scared me with that many of them being out at night and the way normally a lot of people drive during that that after party during attackers where we start getting everybody out here almost anybody

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normally operating off >> and they're people that normally don't operate. asked Commissioner to be I have a foundational question. Um the person who dropped off those golf carts, was he renting them to different people?

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>> Did he have a business tax license to do business in the city of Crescent City? >> I'm not sure of that. >> We do not know that. Um it was something that was brought up. I believe we don't do it on a Saturday. You know, that's hard to I mean that's hard to To me,

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that's the found that's the foundational thing. Secondly, did those people have insurance for those golf carts? >> They don't. >> Commissioner, here's the here's the meat and potatoes. >> Okay. >> If I see somebody out at night and they're driving a golf cart and you're coming home from somewhere,

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>> right? >> I'm going to probably stop and say, "Commission to be there. You headed home, right?" Yes. Yes. I'm headed home. Okay. Thank you. >> And then you're you're headed home because those very small events happening like that. I that that just something just

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something is chilling about operating these things at night because when you say at night I understand that we all understand the person who's going and doing whatever but if you open these things up at night I just feel like and I'm looking at myself as a a golf cart owner and I don't know how the light when you say street legal lights and

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stuff like this I don't know how the lights on because it's lower to the ground they're smaller it's almost like a motorcycle at night you don't see a lot of people driving at night just because they're a different vehicle on the roadway and I just It's it's I would I would caution you to have

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those things out and let's just say 2 o'clock in the morning, 10 o'clock at night, 11 o'clock at night. I just something don't feel right about the golf carts being out there. They are slower moving. They're crossing main intersections and stuff. And when people come up on, they're not seeing the lights and

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>> Okay. Well, Commissioner, it sounds like Major User is saying he wants us to put a cap on it. a time and and but I will say major golf carts on the roadway um we have a

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lot of people driving bicycles after dark with no lights at all >> and we stop those people >> nothing well I'm just saying that's hazard so I don't know would 10 or 11 o' work because there's not much open after

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10 or 11 >> the only thing I would the only thing and and you're and you're right and and I will be honest with you. I've gotten myself in a situation because when we're out working an event and usually, you know, we don't leave an event till we're not supposed to leave an event until event is completely cleaned up,

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everything's off the street, it's done, and everybody's gone home. And often times, especially, let's take red, white, and booth for example. I'm on my golf cart because you can't get you can't get around. You have to come up here for plunge or whatever. Um,

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I'm down on there making sure that everything is if anybody needs us for any reason and then I've gotten caught where it's dark. It's it's very dark and and I'm trying to get home and that's always been a concern of mine is now now I'm driving the golf cart home. Now I

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have lights on. It goes slow but it does have lights. Um, how would we how would we deal with something like that? every every everything that I've ever seen or anybody that I've seen that has had a golf cart community has been from dust

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whatever the case may be. So this is a new thing that >> it was >> it just >> it was when we first >> something brand new like I said and these things these golf carts being out in the dark it's just like motorcycles they just don't look out for these things >> right and and you know it's really kind

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of you know dust to dawn and and a lot of the the uh golf communities um golf cart communities they're kind of enclosed they're they're own they're really their own little community period

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And so, you know, I can remember going down and playing golf with my mom at Fairways and u you know, going out karaoke, whatever. Okay. Coming home. But it's a but it's a very closed community. So, you bring your golf club

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home that the next morning when I got back up to go St. Petersburg, I saw so many golf carts who were so drunk that that that were, you know, in the water. I mean that all these people were crazy, but but they that's the only way they got around in that community.

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>> Again, you know, it's one of those things where you notice the dark, you're on your way home, and I think it opens it up to say you stay out at night, they're going to stay out a little bit longer at night. And let's be honest, yes, there's designated golf crossings. >> Let's say we put them at every intersection or the limited intersection,

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>> they're going to go home. >> Yeah. >> And when it's daytime, you can see these things. When it's night time, you can't. And if you put one of the old carts out at night, I just have a My feeling on it is they're asking for >> this is a hard community to close it up,

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>> you know, where where you can uh where you can close it up and and kind of control it to a point where for the most part if it's any they're going to be any accidents, especially at night golf carts. But but you see what I mean?

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>> 17. Yeah, there's 100,000 cars that come through this this And that's one thing that hurts Crescent City is this highway that goes straight through it. I mean, there's a lot of reasons um that we can't quite be the same as >> I'm on board. I just

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>> Yeah. >> So, if we put a time if we put a time on it because dusk is and then it's an interpretation of who's whose interpretation of what time dusk is. Um, >> I think mayor that if you were going home and it was dark and he saw you

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>> and he knew and he knew that you were working up at the park >> and I know where you're going to cross over. I know where I'm going to cross over that night or right here at the light. That's where I'm going to cross over to go home no matter where I am in town. >> I I'll kind of say it like this. This is

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your decision for you. You know what your people want your personal opinion. If this was whiskering times, I'd say ride them all night long. >> This was Park, I would say. >> But here it's tough. You can't do it here. >> You don't have to be crossing.

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>> So, yes, Commissioner Lori. Um, according to state law, we can't um, change that because this says in here that a golf cart may be operated only during the hours between sunrise and sunset unless the responsible government entity has determined that golf cart can be operated during the

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hours between sunset and sunrise and the golf cart is equipped with headlights, brake lights, turn signals to windshield. But then you go down here a little further and it says that you can't we can't make it more restrictive than what the state says. a golf golf cart operation and equipment which is more restrictive than those enumerated

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in this section. Um, a local government entity may inactivate. So, we can do it more. I'm sorry, I read. >> Yes. >> But I think that needs to help us in figure out if we can. >> That's what I said. >> Yeah. But we then set it at 10:00.

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>> I mean, there's no reason for 10:00. There's nobody out at 17 after >> nothing in town except for Jordan special. You and I were out after 10 doing trash. >> Yes. >> So there are times. >> Okay. So why don't we just do that? Put

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it >> like that. >> I mean >> Okay. >> Okay. Everybody's talking over everybody and we've got difficulties with this. So one person at a time. So, um, but before we decide that it's 10:00, Major Estri,

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how are you? If we were to set a 10:00, 9:00, what would your preference be from a law enforcement standpoint? I don't like them out after dark, but that's my that's that's me trying to be super safe and make sure the darker it is and I don't know how many golf carts we're

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talking about, but after dark, the more golf carts you have, the more chance you have for that person not being seen, crossing at whatever intersection. And for me personally, I'm just looking out for the safety safety aspect of it. >> It it seems more

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>> if I knew I was going to be out past dark, I would get in my car and go somewhere. And I had a golf cart myself, so it's the other the smaller kind. I was looking to get another one. But I would get in my car and I would drive somewhere just because I know that if somebody hits me at 35 miles an hour,

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it's probably going to kill me. >> Um, that's just my personal opinion. I would stay with what statute says and that's dusted on. But you you guys can do whatever you like. >> Okay, mayor. Yes, if I could. The statute says that we may authorize

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people to be on the roadways after dark >> if headlights have turn signals and brake lights, >> right? Which is the standard equipment that is required in our ordinance. >> Well, you don't have to have headlights. >> Pardon? >> You don't have to have headlights. >> Okay. Well, then we should say if

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they're going to be out after dark, then they have to have turn lights and stop lights. >> Brake lights. Okay. So, add obviously this is covered. Okay. So we they have to have the required equipment. My concern is Major Estri is saying he doesn't want

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the golf carts out after dark. But the bottom line is people in this community want to use their golf carts to go do things and to go to dinner and they use them for that purpose. I think it makes

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more sense. Um certainly for their liability insurance. I would hate to see somebody have an issue being able to recover on their insurance or whatever because our ordinance says you're not supposed to be out after dark and they're coming back from three bananas.

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I would like to go ahead and obviously this is going to be a draft ordinance. We're going to have to advertise it. We're going to have to bring it up. If the general public thinks that it's too dangerous and they want to crack down on this, then they can say so. But I would like us to have a draft ordinance that

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says with the proper safety equipment required by state law that you can um have your golf cart out until 10:00 at night. That would allow hopefully people to get back from restaurants as well be

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stroke until 9 on the weekends. um because people are doing so now. And I I just think it's unreasonable of us when state law does allow it to not give that authorization.

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People cross the highway on foot um after dark and it's very well lighted there. So if you're if you're crossing at the light and it's well lighted. >> Okay. So, let's take that. Let's Leo,

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did you take that under um and look at that? >> The only concern I would have with that is that Florida statute says >> on to dusk and if we go later than dusk,

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is that lessening? Is that lessening >> ready to go and then we'll >> but I want him to look at that just to make sure that by by saying well we can go later than dusk that that's not lessening but that's actually strengthening

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>> and what and within our confines of what we're allowed to do if you would okay >> so at 10:00. So is that what you're saying is 10 o'clock? >> Yeah, >> I'm saying 10 o'clock. >> But you have to have headlights, spray lights, internally >> and you must have nature's talking about

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dark. Of course you have difference in in in season. >> If you want to specify time, maybe time is different in summer versus winter. >> I mean, you could do something like that. >> And we've had that discussion with our parks. That doesn't make any sense at all. >> Right now it's sunrise. Well, sunrise to

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sunset. It's dark, but in the winter time it gets dark. >> But people are people and you know, even though your your your golf ball carts are equipped, my golf ball carts equip, there's a lot that are not equipped. >> Okay. So, they can't be out after dark.

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>> But what I'm saying, they will be out. >> Okay. >> Then they won't get pulled over. >> Well, you hit the nail on the head when Commissioner said they're doing it now, right? And they are. We know. We we tolerate it just because we know they're people doing things. So anyway,

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>> but if they're out, >> but they but they there's a lot that aren't because they know they got to be back in by by dusk. So, >> okay. But we're not a we are not a police state if the statute allows it. And from what Commissioner Lori read and I've written in the past, I think it

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does. And so if people have the lights and the proper equipment, I really don't see why we should tell them that they can't use their golf cart in the winter time to go to dinner at a restaurant. >> Just give an opinion.

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>> It is an opinion. >> Just write it up and then >> But if they're driving down the side of the road on 17, >> well, >> don't even a lot of stuff that we just talked just because >> because we've got a new restaurant. We have a new restaurant opening up. >> Yep.

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And so if and if they're driving down the road on 17 and it's after dark >> um >> there will be a there will be a two-lane path. This is what's going to happen. There going to be a two-lane path that's going to go to that because I guess they're making putting a sidewalk in front of it. There's going to be a two

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lane >> there going to be a two-lane dirt path that goes down the side of the road to that restaurant. >> I have my doubt that's gonna happen because there's not a lot of space on that road. Okay. So, let's let's move forward because this is um

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>> so with this, >> we need to also talk about these ebikes and electric scooters. And I know you've got to leave, but we've got some major issues here in town now with these ebikes. And I believe with the new language, I thought there was legislation. >> It hasn't been

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>> it hasn't been yet. >> Is that correct? >> That is correct. So, as soon as he signs off on that, we'll have to we'll need to address that. >> And I would just say last night we were in Palm Coast and we were in the Target parking lot and this kid went through

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the parking lot so fast we went out to the the fourlane highway there and turned around and he was already on the other side of the street on the sidewalk pulling the other way. And this was at 10:00 at night or like 9:30 at night. I'm like this is like a the kid was as tall as the scooter barely. I'm like he

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was maybe 11. And I'm like, where the hell is this parent? And why the I mean, but he moved so fast. It was like blur. I'm like, that's just crazy. >> So, I mean, these things are I >> does 52 miles an hour. >> I

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don't >> I mean, going 6 miles an hour on this thing is scary sometimes. >> But these >> those are they just really move. >> These electric bikes, they're they're they can be dangerous, especially in and out of traffic. Um, so

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>> we need to look at what we can do with these ebikes, too. >> I did include what was recently passed in March by the city of Atlantic Beach. They're looking to pardon those provisions based on state on the state's movement, but um that's in your packet as well.

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>> What is what is the current state of legislation? certain voltage speed and things like that. >> Yeah. >> Where is required to be starting to consider a motorcycle >> age age requirements, things of that nature.

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>> Just wait and see what if the governor signs this and then >> I feel it feels kind of funny to write something and then they're going to change it. >> Yeah. I sincerely doubt the governor is not going to sign this. It was it passed unanimously.

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We can always put a draft of it into our ordinance. If the governor for some reason vetos it, then we'll just take it out. >> So do >> I mean but is I haven't looked into what is already on the books. I don't know. Um I'm just looking at whatever this

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says that Atlantic Beach did. Um >> I don't know. I don't know. >> Our major has to get to phone me or something. I'll be available. I'll get you spend time with us. >> That's important. Thank you. >> Thank you so much for all of your help,

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>> especially the security plans. >> You sure you don't want to carry those? >> I'm going to keep them in there for your reserve. They'll be your reserve pair. >> You rock those. You rock those. >> Bye, everyone. Maybe our attorney put together a draft

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with us. >> I think that that's probably something that we need to um especially with the electric bicycles and we've got this issue also with these little motor scooters

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um in town. These kids are riding these little motor like mini bikes. Remember back in Well, you're you wouldn't understand this probably. You're a little younger than us, but remember the >> little mini bikes that you used to they're riding those all over town.

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>> It wasn't that long ago. How old >> you call them mini bikes? I don't know what >> they're so tiny. It looks like a funny like >> I love seeing the people with the electric wheelchairs. >> Yes.

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>> Riding up and down 17. I don't >> dollar the new Dollar General >> and you know what now we're going up a little ways right but where the >> that way north >> yeah north >> you know riding up and down 17 of these things and I I look at them every day I said why are you taking your life in

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your hand but yeah they're that's their only I guess >> transportation you know which is which is hard >> which is hard I mean you know in the world we're in the country and it happens differently out here than it does in the city and so

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>> you don't have transportation. >> So let's I think at this point you've heard from us everything needs to at least mirror state law unless you've heard from us that we want to change that make it stronger. Um and so if we

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can get a draft proposal for us >> the golf cart one would be an amendment. Yeah, it would be an amendment on the golf cart, but you can add into it um >> motorized, you know, other motorized or however you want to refer to

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it. >> Um and mayor, yes. Um, I think it would be helpful if um our ordinance addressed allowing people to use the sidewalks that are at least 8

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ft wide. Um this is current 8 B3 says maximum speed of 15 m an hour sidewalks adjacent to highways if

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they're at least 8 ft wide and we might want to get out there and measure those and specify what some of them might be and >> pardon me um Maybe the one on the east side of

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summit. You were saying you thought there was a portion of one on the left side of some and the west side of summit is larger, >> right? Because this particular block is not really accessible unless you use a golf cart. >> I mean, if you're using a golf cart, then it's not accessible to your golf

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cart. You have to go park somewhere. Um, and then mayor, I wanted to ask you, I was not aware of the issue of um, dropped off golf carts and the major expressed a concern. I thought I heard you express a concern about, I guess,

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rented golf carts being dropped off during events and you felt like there were too many golf carts running about. Um well I if you looked around and if you were out and about that evening you would see there was a lot of golf carts that were out on the roads and my

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question was how did that happen? >> Two semi trucks with two flats each that came in that came around Rondo area. I don't know who I called somebody. >> I saw at least 40 of them coming down 308. >> Okay. I mean seriously golf carts and I

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thought they were coming in from Wacka. You know, drive, >> but you can't drive a golf cart on 308. >> But they were they were >> I don't care. >> They were on they were on a flatbed, >> but she's talking about driving from Waka. >> Yeah. So they were >> But I'm just saying used to

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whatever you want. >> And at one time at one time I mean it took me from Grand Rondo East on Vernon to Grand Rondo West almost 25 minutes. And at one time there were about 10 or 15 in front of me, you know, in the road and on the sidewalk.

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>> We're not talking regular golf carts that you're going to go highend golf carts. Well, that's why the Rotarians were having such a problem bringing everything out of the park because taking >> and that's the first time that happened that we're aware that we're aware of. Yes, Commissioner Dvita. to mayor to me

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to address that. Number one, if they must be rented, um, whoever is renting them. >> Yeah. >> We should have several times. >> Yeah. >> Okay. But you guys just said, "Well, we can't do anything about that." I I think we can. >> And I also heard there was

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>> said that we can't do anything about that. >> Okay. Mayor, you don't have to get married. I'm just saying. I'm just again it always concerns me when you try to put words in our mouths that we did not say because nobody said we can't do anything about that commissioner to be

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so I'm upset that's what I get upset about say that okay you get all right so there's the the people who are bringing them in as well there are if they're on the sidewalks we really don't allow golf

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carts on residential sidewalks so that's an area for law enforcement to address. And then the other thing that I wanted to bring up is we're talking about golf carts that can't go over 20 miles an hour. So unless they're trailered in

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here, you really were, right? But I'm saying people people cannot really drive their golf cart from one city to the other. I don't think it went through. Um um Waka

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started to have a registration system, >> but they didn't they didn't follow through with that. Is that right? Correct. >> My understanding I think at one point that legally they weren't >> they weren't allowed to weren't, >> you know, I had no idea where all these golf carts were coming from. I just know

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they were coming down 308 and there was >> a good 20 25 golf carts all in a row. So, if if they're not low-speed vehicles with tags, then it's my understanding they can't be on 308. That would be an

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issue to call the sheriff about for the sheriff to address. Um, and then I don't know if we could do this, and this would be an issue for our law firm. Um during special events, can we have um a special

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event ordinance concerning golf carts, rental golf carts, use of out of town golf carts? I don't know. But um we come up over the years, we've come up with different situations that have to do with our special events. So maybe that

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is a question to answer. But I have a problem with somebody coming in and dropping off, you know, an unspecified number of golf carts because they must be being paid to do so. >> I Here's the problem. >> You're just not going to be able to stop

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it. >> That's the There's There's nothing that we can do, nothing that code enforcement can do, nothing that an ordinance can do that's going to stop it. >> Well, wait a minute. That's a question for our city attorney because I I don't

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think that's necessarily true. And if somebody doesn't have a business tax license and they're they're operating in the city, then there should be something that we can do. They're pulling up and they're um

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there must be something. >> I don't disagree. language can be put out there. But the what I'm saying is that at any given time, any of these events, we don't know who's coming in, who's coming out. We're talking about unsanctioned events that's happened and occurred for

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years that they invite different people. People see it online. Someone says, "Oh, I have an opportunity to make money." How do you tell that person and how do you control that person saying, "No, you can't you can't do that here. We don't have the manpower." And it doesn't matter if you write an ordinance. doesn't mean that someone's going to

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abide by it. You can ride it, but people are going to do what they want to do. They're going to bring in the carts and try to make some money over the weekend. It's just like, you know, >> it's an enforcement. So, what it comes down to, Commissioner Devito, is it's going to end up being if we do something

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like that, and like I said, I've never seen that happen until this last Yeah. this last time. Um, and I'm sure they had to have liability waiverss. I'm sure they had to have insurance. there was a lot of things that the company would have had to add. Obviously, they're well

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equipped for that. Um the enforcement part is is really more the issue. So, you can put it on paper, it's enforcing it. And when you've got when you've got a group of 500 700 people

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>> and you're trying to control that group, that crowd, and then you've got golf carts on top of it, there's a there's a mixture of a lot of of a lot of things. It's it's it's a tough dynamic for anybody. I don't care how good you are. Um it's it's just a tough it's a tough

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dynamic. So, it's something that I think that as we go forward, if it happens, that we're going to have to rely on our sheriff's office to advise us as to what they need us to do and what they have

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the capability to do to to enforce whatever it is they're asking us to do. Um, so >> I didn't realize that there were trucks bringing those guys in. Two of them came. >> I was on my way somewhere else when I saw them.

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you may >> um >> our code officer is very good about contacting people and it seems to me >> if you have large trucks bringing in something that they're renting um we

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should be able somebody should be able on city staff because we have all hands on deck at Catfish right to take a picture of their license plate and run down where it came from and chief You don't know where they're dropping them off cuz I don't think I

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have no idea. >> Seriously, I don't know where they all came from. I just know there was a bunch of them. >> But each I'm at each one of these events and if the commission wishes for me to do something like that, I have no problem. But honestly, staff and and we are we we are hands on deck. I wouldn't

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say all but you know the the the necessary staff, but my code enforcement officer right now is at a 30 hour a week and she's not here on Friday and not here on Saturday. So for me to to put enforcement in there on a Saturday, it it's going to have a financial

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implication and and other things. But >> we will do whatever we need to do to make sure you know that everything is safe and kosher, which is the most important thing. I will tell you, I asked one of the people that were on the cards how much they they paid. They rented them for and they actually had to

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put like almost $500 in a deposit for it. They didn't give me the rental for the for the day, but they are there were there there were there was a mechanism for them contractually between them and the the guy who it was a legitimate outfit that was doing that.

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They go apparently this company goes to large events and does that for for people and they also do scooters which they didn't bring the scooters but it's a it's a statewide company legitimate company. >> They are legitimate company operating our city. >> They if each one of those if each one of

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those were 8 to10,000 imagine the amount of money they had sitting there >> next time we will. >> And if you if you can see it I I didn't see it. it was after the fact and so if somebody's has the benefit of seeing it, you know, um and then and then all you

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have to do is you reach out to them >> and that's what Pam would do is you need, you know, um license, they get that on Monday morning and then and then we we can't there's not a whole lot we can do at that point. south. >> But you know, uh what I saw I saw

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probably about 20 25 uh golf carts coming down through and they each one had two people in it. >> So I'm thinking there's 50 people that were bringing into the catfish festival. >> So hopefully they ate a whole lot of catfish.

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>> It wasn't the catfish festival. They were here for >> it. What were they coming in for? >> They were here for the after the catfish festival. Well, there was a lot of people here with the catfish, too, with with golf carts because I saw them back and forth on Main Street, but a lot of them were here. The rental ones were But

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then afterwards, yes, they were here as well, but I'm just saying that, you know, >> there's a couple ways to look at it. I guess >> um I guess >> it was a mixture of both. Commissioner, the mayor said she felt it was unsafe. If she didn't feel it was unsafe, I

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wouldn't be that concerned about it. Well, the major he was concerned about it, right? So, and and as I saw that and people and Commissioner Lorie said it too when just in the mayor because if you've got people on golf carts driving these golf carts and they they're not

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accustomed to driving a golf cart driving. Yes. And they're powerful. They were more powerful golf carts dangerous. that can be dangerous especially in a crowd of people and you know so anyway I think that's something that as we go

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forward um we'll have to figure out how to address that maybe that's something that you can even Leo >> of course >> okay so with that um just a couple of things commissioner it's my understanding you met with

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representative sap yesterday >> yes >> and how are we on our appropriations >> um So, the the number one thing that Representative Sap said to me was um he he doesn't know where they are on the budget. >> He doesn't know when they're going to be

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called. He doesn't know whether they're going to be whether there will be substantive negotiations. He said we might get called in and be told this is the budget that the leadership has agreed on. However, um I

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looked at the budget and before I went to this meeting and I had several things to talk about. Um we had two we had one wastewater and one um water water project in there that was >> Cherry Street in our north tower second

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phase. Are both of those in there? not cherry. Um BJ knows I did >> it was um it was the southweist water um improvements the design. >> Okay, that was in there but not the cherry tree. >> I I did not see >> cherry street, not north tower second,

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not any of that. It was just designed for Lake Street and the south water tower. Okay. >> Um and designed for the wastewater treatment plant. Um >> that's all the you know whatever. >> So that was very different from what you

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I heard >> but I mean that was that was the Senate I'm sorry the Senate's draft budget that they released a month ago >> and those were on the top priority those were the last >> was he able to tell you any just hang on

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let me just say what what we did um so I took what I found that was in the house version of the budget >> um I could not find a conference report they said there is no conference report. So what I found was in the house version

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of the budget and there were those two that commissioner Lori has described and I left my copies with them. So I brought that um representative sap was there and he had his legislative aid. Um so I gave those to them as well. We have our small

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matching grant for the national register nomination. Um they have on the house side they fully funded the small matching grants and we were something like 18 or 19 on the list. >> So I brought those three things to their

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attention. Um they said um if we are participating in negotiations they will um make their best effort to get those projects in there. They said we just don't know what's going to

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happen. um you know we we may be told that um those funds are wanted for something else that's priority of leadership but anyway I did bring them to their attention and the I think the thing to do now is um to follow up maybe

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to ask um the legislative aid whether she knows anything else in the budget and also to contact Senator Leak's office because that's the other side >> and Senator Lee is the one that got us everything last year and he was remember we met with this legislator and now he

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has Olivia and >> right well the um he's part of leadership >> right I was going to say he is leadership so that's why >> we should contact um okay senator leak's office the difficulty is more on the

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house side because they are the ones proposing I think 1.5 billion less >> for the budget um they seem to think if we were in the house side that we would be in the senate side as well. But yes, it's the next thing to do is to contact

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Senator Leak and they don't have a date for the budget special session yet, but the sooner the better >> because Sen Senator Leak, yes, could um he has more seniority because this >> is the future.

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>> It's going to be um those other two those two are were our priorities too. Yeah. >> Um the other thing is is that um Mr. Martin says he has a clerk um he's done you've done clerk >> Yes.

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>> interviews and you have a finalist and you wanted to bring it to the commission. Unfortunately um she can't do anything until the she wants everything finalized and we will not be meeting in another meeting.

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>> Yes. until >> until May unless we have a special meeting and >> and I am bringing it to y'all's attention as a courtesy. I did discuss this with Don feels that that is not a director position that I could do a direct hire. It is up to you all if you

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want to have a special meeting. I can bring the information. I have no problem doing that at all. Um time is of the essence. I want to make sure that I can get her um an offer. >> Well, mayor, I have a question. So we tentatively I know you spoke to

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the fact of maybe needing a change. I thought we tentatively set a workshop >> on minimum maintenance standards >> workshop. >> Right. But so my question is um if the city manager has any urgent items um

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like for repairs or whatnot that tend to come up >> or something else he wants to bring to our attention. >> Um could we have a short special meeting or I don't know to me if we don't need to approve

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um a hire I'm not really sure why we would step into those waters. He was yesterday just wanting to he wanted me to bring that up that if we if the commission wanted to weigh in on that. >> Um if not if we're okay with him going ahead and doing it then then and we've

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done that in the past. >> Sure. >> And and my opinion is that >> if you think that it's right candidate and I know you you've had two really good candidates. We have we we've actually had um three real good candidates and >> we know how important this is very important

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>> and this this was a staff discussion. We've had four meetings and we're ready to move forward as a team to ask >> my personal personal feelings for >> I mean I I have no problem with that. I don't if the charter doesn't require us

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to approve >> that does not >> then right then we shouldn't do so. Um, but mayor, I mean, I have no objection. I think it'd be nice if they want to come meet us, but are we having the workshop on the 22? >> Well, we we are having the workshop.

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>> We currently have the the workshop on the 22nd. It's a good possibility. I will not be here. >> Um, if I I have a family member having hip hip surgery and so if I have to be with with them, I'll I'll be with them. But, um, but y'all can go forward with

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the minimum maintenance standards. I've provided him with what came before us before. So, he has that. He should be getting that out to the commission unless the commission wants to wants to move that workshop to another day. Um,

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>> so that's that's that's it doesn't I'm I'm good with with with whatever you decide to do. I'm not going to inconvenience anybody >> because of my schedule. >> I mean, it is a workshop. Anything else, you know, we'd have to bring it back for >> right discussion more. So, I don't think

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we're going to mess up the whole town. Why you're not here? >> Why? And that's possible. >> It's possible >> to what? >> To mess up everything. The whole town. >> I didn't say that. >> No, I know. >> He's joking. He's teasing. >> You can trust You can trust us. You

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trust me? >> Well, you're not going to make any final decisions. >> It's a workshop. So, >> it's a workshop and it's pretty much written as it was, you know, before. >> Right. Right. So >> I mean is there >> I I would like to ask commission while we're here in a workshop um setting how

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you would like me to bring to your attention the the updated policy. We have routed it for staff >> the policy manual >> policy manual. Yes, >> I'm sorry. >> We have routed it um to um Florida leads the cities. They have their specialist

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that's in that division look it over. Everything is kosher. I want to put that in and and get that um implemented, you know, approved. How do you want to see I will send it to you all for review ahead of time. Do we want to have a workshop? You want me to bring it to commission

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meeting? How do you do that? >> I think you just bring it to the main commission meeting. >> Okay. >> If you're ready for everybody, >> but it' be nice to send out to us before. >> Absolutely. So we have absolutely okay.

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>> I don't know that we need to workshop it. We >> Yeah. If it's gone through all those >> I'm I'm only waiting on >> and Don and Don as long as Don has >> that's all I'm waiting on. >> And they've all given their stamp of approval. >> Yes. It's a little different than the last time they had a post.

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>> Yes. Yeah. that was just really way far was not ready for >> and and we've we've labeled out what the legacy poly policy um portions are staying. So that is that is in a report. So anything that changed and what's been erased there were things in there for

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the police station and I mean they even had language in there about discets. You know that's how old it was. >> I know we know how old it was. >> We went through it. We we workshopped it and we went through it line by line. Unfortunately, we all went through the

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old one first line by line thinking it was the new one, >> right? Because it wasn't marked. But if I if I could say um I what I would appreciate is yes, knowing um being informed of any sections that are deleted. Yes. And as well if there are

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sections that are edited, um the normal thing to do and the most helpful to us is to do the strike through and underline. It would put us back to a very heavy review. There was a lot of stuff that

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was taken out because it doesn't meet the requirements of today's day and age. I did put a briefing sheet that's really clear as to what was taken out and what was kept, >> right? But I'm saying small changes. Um, it's very helpful because we we've had

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difficulties in the past like with just a huge book put in front of us and we have no idea what's different unless we read through the entire thing and compare it to the old one which is a you know >> very similar what very

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fire department. >> Yeah. just recently. >> I can I can see if I can get a program to go in and do it, but it's been totally rewritten. 100% rewritten. Legacy policy portions have been kept. Those have been added so you know exactly what was kept and everything

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else is new to bring it up to today's best standards and practices, especially EEO, HR, all of those things. The technology, the IT, that's things that weren't even in there before. I really would like to look at it since the Florida League of Cities has taken a

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look at it. I've got legal uh reviewing it, our internal team has looked at it. I really would like to look at it as a brand new document and then look and see what we did keep and make sure that we're okay keeping that. But it is a totally new document and not based off

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of the old. >> Okay. Well, parts of the old had absolutely nothing wrong with them. So, I send us what you got and and as much of the description as you can. >> Absolutely. It's already put together for you and you'll get an email by tomorrow.

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>> Okay. And we all should have a copy. We should have a copy of what we had before. So, if you don't, if somebody needs to be provided with a copy, you can do your comparisons. Um, I will say this that I went through that with the animal ordinance and it's very difficult to when you're changing a lot of things

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around. It's it's not it's that's not an easy it's a very tedious process. >> Yes. >> Um to do on a computer when you're doing that. So my hats off to anybody that ever does that. Um, >> so, so anyway, next week I commissioners, I just want us to as we

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go forward from here forward, um, you know, when we're doing a workshop like this, like we had a meeting last week, we have a workshop this week, special meeting, we're having a workshop next week, maybe in the future as we look at our calendars, you know, let's

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try to keep those within the weeks that we're that we're meeting, you know, if we can. I think that would be, you know, good. I know the county does that oftent times. They'll have, you know, their meeting and then they'll have a workshop. >> Um,

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>> so I think that that's something that just, you know, and I'm just doing this more for the convenience of everybody that it's it's heavy on staff because they're having to get ready for a meeting week after week after week. We have a new clerk coming on. she's going

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to have to go through a lot of of training and learning and and if they can do it all at one time and they know they've got that week set aside because it's kind of like when you're in commission week. Um and for us too, you know, you think about that. So now u for three weeks out of the month, we we

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really have to have to be here because you're going to have to prepare. So, you know, that takes quite a bit of time to prepare for the meeting. just as we go forward. That's something for us to think about and let's try to um to do those to to

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>> yeah to compress condense them maybe compress them a little bit >> more than one week would be great. I know. Um mayor, >> yes, but sometime I mean I didn't have particular desire to choose the schedule, but sometimes I cut the other

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way because if staff has to prepare for a workshop and they also >> usually the meeting the week before a commission meeting, there's all kinds of things that come up. So whatever >> and that's not always going to happen. I'm just saying that in the future maybe let's kind of

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>> and we've done that before. and we've done that and we've done that before. >> Okay. >> So, >> um I also would like to add um something that we'll bring up in the just to have in the back of your mind your minds. We're going to tenatively put together a schedule, but we need to have workshops

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on the budget. We've already started on the budget and it's coming up. We're going to be in May. Um we have already gone through a first round of reconciliation with each of the department heads and looked at at the numbers for this year um in comparison to last year and kind of made some

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extrapolations but we've made notes and we do need to start getting together. Well, also if you have any adjustments that need to be made. Last year we were we were kind of out there and so we don't want it to be that close. >> Since 25 is completed too, I believe there was some carry forward that we

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have to discuss as well where we want to put that at. >> Um, mayor, if I could. >> Yes. Um, this was covered in the black daily news. The plaque city commission went through this. Um I I think we need to have as soon as

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possible if 2025 has closed out that statement that shows what the result was and what the overage was and the different departments. What the PLA city commission wanted to do and

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um the staff did not understand that didn't bring it to them. They wanted to review the 2025 budget performance and review um what was on target, what was under and what was over. I thought that

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sounded like a great idea and I would like to see us do that um so that we have some understanding of you know how effective the staff projections were, how effective our decisions were. Mhm. >> Um I think that would be of great

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benefit to understand the prior year before we jump into the next year. >> Well, and typically that's what we because the prior year we will have those final figures. And so anytime I know when I'm looking at the budget, I'm always looking at where were we last

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year and did we go over do we need to make some some some adjustments back and forth. So thankfully we do have that. But anything that you can provide um is very helpful. the the city commission in Flata specifically said they wanted to

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have a preliminary discussion just about where they've been before they jump. >> So that's what you're asking. Yes. Okay. That's a little different. So she was she's asking that if you can have a preliminary discussion um because you've got that

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reporting because you have that on a budget on those on the budget. So we can look at that just to come so we know. >> So all of those should be where they need to be. I know she had to Bernie had to do some adjustments here and there um to make sure that they were allocated in the correct lines. >> Yes.

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>> So, >> yeah. So, we'll um we'll do that. We we've been we've been looking at um an AI program through Microsoft 360 for finance. It'll help Steve with reporting. Um and I think that'll help out with with what you all are looking for as well.

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Well, and mayor, didn't we ask for and um didn't we ask for a consolidated um explanation of what we are sending for the audit and the CPA? Did we

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>> It's been completed and I plan on having an email to you all tomorrow. >> Okay. >> So, that that work has all been completed for 2425. >> Okay. >> For both. >> Great. Sounds good. >> Okay. I want everyone to know that if you didn't read this in the news that bat season starts tomorrow.

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>> Bat bat mating season I'm sorry. >> Bat mating season starts tomorrow >> and um it will go from April well actually today from April 15th is the last day to legally exclude bats from buildings without a permit until August

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15th >> and it's impossible to permit. >> Oh okay. >> So if you have holes in your illegal to bats from returning to their roots. Right? >> This helps prevent flightless bat pups from being trapped inside structures which could be detrimental to both

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humans and bats. So, I just want everyone to be aware of this um as you go forward. Permits are required to use exclusion devices during Florida's bat maternity season. I currently have an interesting I have a

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peacock that has seven eggs as of yesterday and might have more. We thought we would lay more. She's nesting in our backyard on the subject of wildlife. On the subject of wildlife, may I share with the fuzzy caterpillars?

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You know about the fuzzy caterpillars? >> Yeah, they landing on me. >> Yeah, they they attacked Commissioner Lorie, right? Well, >> last night my husband and I went to the Pomona Park Council meeting >> um to support the students working

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against tobacco and their presentation and I was talking to one of the um APC coordinators from Gainesville. We were standing outside under that nice overhang they have and a fuzzy caterpillar dropped onto this woman's neck.

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So anyway, we brushed it off blah blah blah. So, it's a real I did not know they were attacking commission. >> Yeah. I was at the corner market square over there. I was under the, you know, the trees there, right? >> And it was windy and they kept falling on me, you know, and of course I can't grab them. I had to wait for them to

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crawl on my leg. >> It's a thing, especially this year. >> And then there was two over at Noline Park. >> Stupid question, but what do those turn into when they cocoon? Is it a moth or is it a >> idea? All I know is they are supposed to make

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>> they're supposed to make people very itchy. >> They burn. >> Somebody sat on one and it like >> they were in hospital. >> Oh yeah. >> So anyway, um I don't know. That's a great question. What do they do? >> Does anybody have Commissioner Burton? Do you have anything you want to share with us? >> No.

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>> No, you're good. You're good. Tomorrow we will um Fernadena. I'm gonna be in Fernadena tomorrow. I'm sorry that we're going to miss um and then next month we'll be in Atlantic Beach. >> So we're going to miss your pot left is next month, correct? So I apologize.

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Sorry about that. >> You can bring us food. >> Um >> if Don if everybody is good no other um >> can I ask that next month you make sure that we make a spot for him a reservation forum our city manager >> where

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he wants to go. I've asked him before and he wants to go to L. >> AB stomping grounds. I just if I could go I would love to go. >> Absolutely. He I've asked him before and he's canceled on it. So

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>> I I have I have and I apologize. I do want to go with you. >> So no, he absolutely can go. I figured he wouldn't go to it. >> I'm bring Yeah. Are you going to go or you >> go? Okay. No, but absolutely I've offered him before to go and so it's um

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you sometimes he has >> you have historic has not historic >> and zoning has met so he's had some conflict. So >> anyway with that everybody's good >> I move this work I'm adjourning this we

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adjourn it is approximately 4:53 and this workshop is adjourned. Thank you everyone for today. Thank you. >> I put up some