17 2025 Roll call Brad Green Brad Green Chair Dan Dodge Roll call How about the chair chairman or board member I'm sorry I'm sorry Yes
Yes Here And our city manager Christina Marie here Planned and zoning developer Mark Caret here And madame chair here Glover
here Okay um the approval of the um planning and zoning March planning and zoning meeting I don't have copy of the minutes if
you'd like to speak on behalf of the minutes Uh we will have all the minutes updated next meeting We have um the board just um granted us permission to order transcription and we are working to get that uploaded and all the minutes
up today Okay Thank you So um we will approve those minutes at that time Okay We will now move on to items 195 Chestnut Street varants from section 3.19.2
two of the land development code The applicant Cheryl Nass request from section 39.2H of the LBC to reduce the side setback for an accessory structure from the larger 10 ft or 10% of the lot width
to 5.71 ft from a property line Would you like me to proceed Yes please Okay so um just for review we've talked about this when we've done uh board training but this is a quasi judicial
hearing So that means that you will be uh applying uh the criteria set forth in land development code to make a decision Uh because this is a quasi judicial uh
public hearing you should if you've had any contact from anyone either uh in favor or opposed outside this meeting you should disclose that contact and the nature of that discussion because you're supposed to be making your decision
based on what happens here at the hearing This hearing is the record of the decision that you make So uh you know as I said if any of you have had contact outside of this meeting uh
you guys should take this opportunity before I get started to uh let us know about it So assume that that no one has So I'm going to go ahead and and uh talk about
the variance There's a staff report that I prepared which should be in front of you uh and in your in your packet I've also handed out a an additional aerial view of the
property This is an aerial view from the looking at it uh from the east side from the water view and just thought it was easier to understand and see the uh slots an arrow view and a staff report that is directly
overhead and so you a lot of that view uh because there's some tree canopy there uh obscures the property So that view is provided
There's also one at the podium uh for any members of the public that uh want to see it Um so the applicant has indicate is requesting a variance to allow the construction of carport over an existing
driveway slab Uh this is an area on a property uh where the applicant currently uh parks RV RV vehicle and uh has requested this variance to allow a
carport to be placed over it Uh the the actual uh variance that's being questioned is a reduction in the side step back from 16 ft to 5.71 ft which is the location of the
slab Why 16 ft The property is zoned uh R1A R1A has a 10-ft setback or 10% of the lot because the width of this lot uh being at 160 ft the required uh setback
uh is uh 16 ft So the reduction is from 16 to 5.71 You also notice if you looked at the application uh there there's additional advance request by the applicant uh for the
size of the uh the requested carport Uh we'll talk about that more later I'm not recommending in favor of the uh increase in the size I'm only recommending in
favor of the uh setback reduction and we'll talk about that Uh so what we have here on this property which is uh.34 acres in size It has which is uh
14,810 square ft Um and it has an existing 2500 ft uh single family home on it that was built uh in in the late '7s The applicant uh purchased this home relatively recently in
uh 2022 Uh the driveway was in place at the uh time uh the property was purchased [Music] Um so in
your in lambda code there are uh six criteria that are set forth and I'm going to go through each of these uh criteria and you will have uh uh my opinion is that how how these are
addressed You guys obviously are decision makers You'll hear from staff You'll hear from the applicant You'll hear from members of the public And you make a decision uh based on uh these
criteria Uh and so I'll go through those uh right now Uh first criteria the granting of the pros variance is not in conflict with the comprehensive plan
Um so up erecting the carport over the existing slab This slab already is in place It's already 5 uh 71 ft This doesn't rise to the level of
disrupting or or changing the residential character of the property So that would have to be the kind of thing for an issue related to a setback where it would be in conflict with
compar deals with you know very broad policy decisions So it's not typically concerned about a small detail such as a setback for varance but it is concerned about the character very standard So for this not for this to be in conflict
conference plan it would have to be it' have to rise the level of you know seriously disrupting the character of the neighborhood for for that criteria to be an issue Uh next criteria the granting of proposed variance will not result in
creating or continuing use which is not compatible with the adjacent uses in the area Uh so so this is a carport Carports are accessories to
uh uh residential type uses The the septac it's the the carport because it's more than 350 ft It will be required to be uh compatible uh with the
existing home It will have to uh uh basically the architecture of this carport will have to rhyme with that existing home There's uh existing vegetation in the screens this property
uh from the joining neighbor Uh there's a really substantial hedge that's there between this and the neighbor And so I I don't believe that this setback variance is going to introduce something that will be
seriously incompatible or uh disturb the adjacent juices in the area Uh three the granting of the variant of the provants is the minimum action not available is the minimum action available to permit reasonable
use of the property So um reducing setback from 16 ft to to 5.7 is the minimum action required to accommodate the car port and the existing driveway If you've seen the property there's some fairly substantial
uh vegetation We already talked about hedge There is also uh a large uh flower bed large tree between the uh car the area where they want to put
the carport in the house Uh so I so this is the reasonable so this is a reasonable accommodation and I think uh does meet the criteria for being uh a minimum
accommodation and but this is one of the reasons why I'm not recommending approval of the size variance the uh landowner code allows uh accessory structures to be built to 600 square feet That is fairly substantial When
you're looking at a variance you're you're looking at the property itself You're looking at configuration of property You're looking at the circumstances associated with the the land uh and there's nothing peculiar about
this particular piece of property that would indicate that they need to have a a larger size uh structure than is currently allowed in the code and that's something that's been fairly consistently uh enforced uh with other
properties Uh next criteria number four physical characteristics of switch site are unique and not present on adjacent properties Uh the property does uh exhibit this this pre-existing flag
Sorry this pre-existing uh driveway Uh and this limits the placement options for the car I've already talked about the vegetation both that separates the property and the trees on it So uh I think that these psych
characteristics do uh create uh conditions uh that are not present uh generally throughout the property Uh and again there's nothing about the physical characters of the
property that would support that size of the variance Uh number five circumstances creating the need for the variance are not the result of the action of the applicant The applicant uh did not create or place the slab there
This was done several years before purchase the property And six the granting of the proposed grants will not cause substantial detriment to the public welfare or impair the purposes and intent of the LDC
uh you know this again doesn't rise the level of of being any being a substantial detriment to the public welfare Uh the purpose of the land development code are for
uh sets forth the rules criteria for you know reasonable development of property uh there there is this variance mechanism within the landing code in order to address hardships
uh and I don't think bring hardship uh would be substantial detriment to to the public u and so our recommendation is to uh grant the size variance
uh and we do recommend uh three conditions which are in the staff report So uh all the other criteria set forth for accessory use requirements must be met This includes criteria that limits the carport to 600 ft in size and
also limits the number of accessory structures on the property Two uh that the existing hedge remain in place and be maintained by the property owner so that it fully uh screens the carport area from the neighboring property to the north and that the color and roof
line of the carport will complement those of primary residents on the property I'll be happy to answer any questions about the uh information I presented uh when I'm done give the
applicant an opportunity to speak and then of course hear from any members of the public who wish to talk about okay any members of the board have any comments at this
time at this time this is just a clarifying question so the hedge that you're talking about is that hedge that looks like it's in the is that in the middle of the slap or how does it There is one in the middle slab
but immediately to the north there's you can see on here it just sort of looks like tree canopy but these are it's actually a fairly substantial hedge and it looks like it it's immediately adjacent to the So if you're looking at this picture that I presented
to you that hedge is here Okay And it's this aerial is probably about the time this is probably 20 21 or 22 Uh the hedge if you go out there
today it's fairly substantial It's very healthy hedge So that separates the two properties Correct Thank you is the whose property is the trunk of
the hedge on Um I mean is it planted on the applicants property It it does appear I mean it may straddle but it does appear to be you know right on that line we can ask the
applicant and you know their knowledge but it does appear to be right at the line Uh my other question is that uh we we have the sketch and then we have the aerial
uh there's a there's a pool on site Uh they they don't appear on either of these it doesn't appear on either of these documents [Music] And I'm wondering what the relationship
is of the pool to the uh to the slab the cardboard the house etc There's uh let's see Okay the illustration uh appears to
show the storage building but I I don't see it on the aerial Uh do we know what year this aerial is from Like I said I think this aerial is
probably from late 2021 maybe early 2022 and the applicant purchased the property in 22 In 22 Uh so uh I guess the question is the storage building was it
uh installed by the applicant or the was it there prior prior to that one ask I did okay I'm just bringing up questions um when we talk about the when we talked
about the uh cupboard itself there was a this photo was provided uh for a reference Um and just for reference
um does this illustrate how it's going to be constructed Well there is criteria in the land development code that basically says if you're over 350 ft you you have to you have to architecturally
match the uh the home And so I I would not indicate to you that that that that does So that's one of the reasons why there's that condition that I'm
suggesting that you put place So I believe I believe the home is a frame home So I assume that the structure would have to be framed Well it it doesn't have to be framed but it certainly you know it should have a roof that that run It should be color
matching It shouldn't be you shouldn't see open uh you know you know basically you see a lot of open like looks like aluminum you know Yeah Most about this of course looks like aluminum too Yeah lub them to uh
you know again you you guys are free to impose reasonable conditions the varian so I'm not suggest you know I'm not suggesting it has to be frame but certainly that is something that you know you guys could talk about whether
you felt like that's reasonable thank So at this time does none of the board have any more question we will open it up for public comments Applicant first Yeah make the applicant Um if you would
like to come forward state your name and your address for us please It's Melissa speaking to the Melissa Frank 195 Chestnut Street Crescent City
can um explain briefly to us um your plan Um what we'd like to do is just build a you know carport on the existing slab that we have Um like he said there's a substantial hedge between
us and the neighbor and I spoke with the neighbor and she said that she didn't have a problem you know I think there's some letters from some of the neighbors and that she didn't have a problem at all you know with us constructing the carport and it actually won't look like
that It it will look the house is a old ranch style woodframe house and so it's going to look it'll be it'll be wood the carport It'll I mean it'll have an aluminum roof that matches but it'll look more of something like like a
polebar barn style sort of Okay So it won't be you know all uh metal you know cuz we'd like for it to go with the flow of the house too Okay So any questions Yeah I have a couple I
have a couple questions Um was it was your neighbor ever shown a picture of what you Well that's that's not what we intend That was just a reference of just showing we wanted to build an open car
for she picture that you just showed us Yes And she's in agreement with that Yes And then my other question is um on the sec the second page of the
agenda it's a letter from Cheryl Nelson and it addressed to main concern and it says I would like to find out if it would be possible to have a
cardboard installed on the existing concrete slab at 195 5 Chestnut Street The cardboard will be constructed by Terry Jackson Terry Jackson carports and concrete a fixed building Um what is
this build What is your carport going to be a fixed to What is it Excuse me It says that the affixed building So what is your cardboard going to be affixed to Not to the concrete
It's just a It'll be just a freestanding cardboard So it's not a fixed to any other building No Okay And you state that you want to build a 26 by 35 foot um cardboard because that's the size of
your slab Yes Okay And essentially 26 ft by 35 ft equals 910 square ft Yes Were you aware of that Yes And we are aware of of the land development code stating that
carports cannot be any larger than 600 ft Well there are a lot of carports around here big steel buildings That talking about what was done before Well these are fairly new That has no bearing on this
case It's what you're going to do has all bearing on this case Okay Well we're trying to build a carport that we can park our RV and we have a small boat under Okay That's and and that it won't overhang the concrete It'll you know
stay it'll stay within the confines of the concrete slab Okay Regardless of the concrete slab does have footers Yes it does Does it have footers Footers Um I'm pretty sure it does it not whoever if
it's approved whoever comes we're going to have an engineer come okay and uh address whatever needs to be done to build the the carport most people when they pour slab it doesn't have any I didn't pour the slab at 9 most people
yeah and I check with John Beckham of the county and he says that anybody now and in the future that has a slab board like that They recommend that have first and the reason being is no
sooner do you get your slab board and you get a car put up and then somebody wants to enclose the whole area and you can't do that without cruise Okay Well that's not our intention to enclose it ever We just wanted to cover and uh so I
mean we'll have an engineer if this is approved We'll be happy to have an engineer come out and do whatever needs to be done to get the car port and and I can have a report an engineer's report provided That obviously is the next phase
Obviously if you guys deny the variance there's no point in going through the process of you know having those those you know plans drawn and figuring all that stuff out And then my last question concerning this letter did you ever get a response from this letter Say that
again ever get a response from your letter A response from our letter If you're asking um I would like to find out So this was to that letter was to the city
Did you get a letter you know a response from the letter Well I did because we came in and and you know that's how this got put in motion Yeah She was asking She was Yeah I was asking what I needed to do to get everything Yeah Yeah She was trying
to find what she could do Yes The the May I and Yes Uh the um it's not clear because the letter isn't addressed to anyone but you and it's signed by you Um so it doesn't say
that it was addressed It's addressed to whom it may concern I know but often it's addressed to an organization and then to whom it may concern Okay you see my point You obviously uh sent this
to the city and I'm just uh might suggest in the future if you're sending it to the city an organization you put that organization I will do that And and again then if you don't know a name it's
often commonly to who it may concern Um did you want to continue Okay So um so there's there's a pool on the property now Yes Uh and did did you
install it How install Yes And um unfortunately it's not shown on the on any of these But this one I can't quite make out because this it's just an above ground
pool I know but I don't know what the relationship is to the slab to the house uh by these documents Well the pool's kind of like in the back backyard and the the the slab is on the end of the house Can
you point on the paper for for for Dan so he has an idea you know roughly where Can you just draw where it is I can do that Okay So let me get my Yeah Okay Thank you So it's some distance
from the slab Oh yeah And the driveway Yes Uh and was the storage building there where you purchased the home No it's portable and it's going to be moved We sold a a farm and we had to have a place to put all of our stuff and we're
going to go through it and then I have a company that'll come move the building So it's not We just had so much stuff and we didn't expect we were going to sell our place that quick Yeah And uh we're making records So
yes I'm sorry No it's okay I just you know didn't want you to spend a whole much more time there It'd be impossible for whoever working on minutes later to So uh to uh to repeat what you told me
uh you placed the storage structure there the shed Yes Temporary Temporarily Yes uh to and it's it's it's uh you're using it for storage but your plan is to is to move it off property Yes At a
um at a later date Yes We just need to go through everything and you know get it emptied out cuz like I say we had several like barns or buildings at our previous address and we had lots of stuff in them And so when we sold it we
just put the building there and put things in it till we could get it all sorted out Is there any other structures small or that you've added to the properties that you uh there's not a deck or anything Is
there a deck There's not a deck No Uh thank you Um getting back to um the structure itself Um I uh I assume
from the driveway that this is a garage Yes there is a it's a it it's attached to the house It was built as part of the home It's a two-car garage It's a twocar garage Yes Okay Single door or double door Double Double
Thank you Um the home Uh now uh what's the roof material It's a It's metal It's a metal roof Yes Thank you Yes Uh since Dan was talking about the
pool to expand a little bit on the pool issue and are you aware that you need a building permit to rent a boat pool Um it is permitted I called the county I know you did And
if you if you would do your homework it's permitted Well I called them and they said there was no [Music] Um I don't think the pool is what is in question tonight but
final Okay good Thank you Okay So so what was that Huh What was that What were you for the record What what what document did you just present the final permit for So so it
was permit for the above ground Yes Okay Just a copy of that for the record Yes Thank you I'd like to ask one more question in regard to the pool Are you aware that above ground pools are considered an
accessory structures Yes So if we move the portable building then we only have two if we get the garage and the pool And I think we're allowed two accessory structures Okay Are you also aware that boat docks that are covered in boatous are considered that dock was already out
there Well I know it's out there but it's considered an accessory structure Well so between the pool and your boat dock and boat house you have two accessory structure Okay Well I'm not going to tear my my pool down I'm not
going to tear the boat down but the criteria states that you can only have two accessory structures So now you're stating that you want to ask You're asking for a third which include this
Yes So you're asking for Yes So it was simply a clarification It was at this point not asking you to tear anything down Um and now that you you've heard
um the member did do their homework Uh so your statement um probably was inappropriate um and um but was not given the the complete facts which you
provided understood Okay A better way might have uh might have stated a better way What's that You stated to the member that uh you didn't do your homework about the pool permit right Yeah his homework he was
given the wrong information So I I I wouldn't have made that comment I would have simply brought forward But I do have Okay You see my point Yes Thank you Okay Um question the
um Okay I I would like for us to get back to why we're here and that is for the variance of the co
back on that Okay Um at this time do Thank you Do you have anything else you would like to share with us I don't I I mean like I say we're just trying to get a carport to cover our in
our building I mean our um RV and our little boat that's all we're asking for Um and I mean it like I say it'll be you know it'll go with the flow of the house and it's not going to be some you know
something crazy looking So okay All right Thank you Thank you Um at this time we will open up for um public comments on this
thing I can handle this please distribute one to each member if you would please Good evening My name is Danny Miller Uh while the clerk's passing out my materials I'd like to take a minute and address a matter of Excuse me Can you
state your address as well Oh I'm sorry sir 1400 Sunset Drive Winter Park Florida I just pass those out I'd like to address a matter of some personal importance to me that some of you may know I'm a present city native and as
such I've been acquainted with the Africans for many years I also worked in my office when she was in high school I've known Cheryl since we were small children uh as I reflected I realized I've been
acquainted to varying degrees uh with four generations of both of their families I've got a great deal of respect for them and I hold their their extended families in high regard My reason for saying this is I just felt
feel compelled to state that I'm somewhat saddened to find myself in opposition uh to these fine folks and I offer my comments tonight uh with all due respect Um also want to thank this board if I may for deferring
consideration of this matter from last month to allow me the opportunity to personally appear before you and offer my comments for your consideration So onto the agenda matter I'm the owner of multiple parcels
adjacent to that of the applicant and I believe these parcels will be significantly and adversely affected by the granting disparities Now the applicant submitted a lengthy application packet letter with
attachments and in their letter dated February 12th they spoke at great length to the subdivision governance and restrictions and question their enforcements We may disagree on that point and ultimately it may follow the
courts to resolve that disagreement But as we all know the requirements of the covenants and restrictions are not the issue before this body tonight have issues There of course is there request for approval variance across city land development code specifically a
significant I think 64% reduction inside setback and of course the land development code very explic explicitly uh trumps any covenants and restrictions where the land development code requirements uh exceed that of covenants
and restrictions So again it's about governance and restrictions Now in addition to the cover letter the applicant's package contains going stack staff report and they've recommended for approval of variance
request I was frankly very surprised by that I believe I'm not the professional but I believe it's for and I'd like to share with you the specifics of why I believe that staff recommendations perhaps
fail What the clerk has distributed includes a copy of the city variance application Uh I find it noteworthy that a variance application was not included in your meeting packet
If it had been included I think by the answers in the questionnaire that we might reasonably conclude that the application appears to fall far short of meeting the absolute criteria for approval
Uh I'll direct your attention to page four of the application and in the preamble under criteria I've highlighted it states in part quote the literal enforcement of
the provisions will result in unnecessary and undue hardship As I reviewed the applicant's various submission I was left with the question what is the hardship Uh as I understand it absent
the establishment of hardship there's no legal basis for granting variance request Uh to me as I read it again it uh application seems instead be based solely on the applicant's desire
to have a carport located well within the city setback requirements The variance application criteria also requires that not only must the applicant demonstrate hardship pardon me
but also that grant of a variance must not adversely affect surrounding properties pardon me Now the applicants counterargument to that appears to be based on solely upon three things
one that the neighbor to the south quote has no objection unquote Of course as the owner of 37 surrounding parcels of property I'm also an exor neighbor of sorts not strenuously legend The applicants also say quote
that they in the letter I believe it was that they have spoken to some real estate agents and they stated that would definitely be an asset improvement and increase the value of the home covered parking area What I believe the Atkins assertion that
the variance will enhance the value of their home is of no legal consequence in their application And finally the question of adverse effect to surrounding properties pays no heed to my letter which is in your meeting packet You know I stated my
belief that as the owner of those 37 affected properties surrounding the applicants property my belief that the grand variance would adversely affect property values I'd like to also cite what I
believe to be possibly five additional reasons to deny the variance request Let's see here Also included in the information I provided is was the February 2025
Crescent City code enforcement monthly report which indicated then that the applicant had an open code violation I understand that code violation has now been resolved but as you noticed reviewed pardon me that rule now
constitutes an accessory structure on the property There's also been talk about the uh uh shed that's contained in the picture in my packet Um that shed is a second accessory
structure I'm a little unclear as to whether it's going to be moved off the property moved elsewhere on the property If you look at the sketch that was provided and I don't know if it's the scale or not it is dimensioned but uh if
that sheds in excess of 200 square ft then that would be code violation Um finally if you've noted uh it's staff
report uh it states under recommendations on page two that quote I quote all the criteria set forth in land development code accessory use requirements must be met This includes the criteria of the
Lummen Parks 600 square ft picked up on the point of that it's actually 910 square ft and I don't see that's part of the the variance application anywhere and
uh limits of accessory structures if you as you've noticed the two well we've got the shed don't know if it's going to be moved off property you got the dock you've got the pool so the land development codes I understand it seems
to expressly prelude the addition of yet another uh accessory structure Um it's my belief that special conditions and
circumstances do not exist the desire to park the the the RV undercover The fact that there was a slab there now and it would be more convenient to uh install on the slab I don't know if that rises to the level of hardship the special
condition Uh and if it doesn't then it would appear to uh in violation of the land development code confer upon the applicant a special privilege through the granting of this So for all these reasons I won't rehash
them Um I I respectfully request that this various application uh be denied It seems to me to be a substantial departure from both the letter and intent of the land development code And
uh I wonder if uh perhaps that the granting of this variance might open up a can of worms and sorts and that now if other folks governed by land
development code come before you can they point to this variance to say "Well gee I want mine too want to be treated equally I I don't know That's that's a decision y'all have
to make Um I have nothing more to add I thank you for your time and attention If you have any questions I'd be happy to answer them Thank you folks I just have one question
It's more of a curiosity question and that is the covenants and restrictions that were set forth in 1963 Yes sir Okay And the corporation or business that those governance and
restrictions were under was voluntarily resolved 1969 Is that right If I may Well my question is I anticipated that so we'll answer Okay
Well my question is are are the restrictions still Yeah that that seems to that's a matter of some dispute if but I have a question He's asking so
you you're asking question as whether they're still valid You're gonna hear a thing So are you an attorney No Are you No I'm not The applicant's not an attorney either So you know it's
you're going to hear you've asked are they still valid We've heard two you're going to hear two different question It's the only reason why I'm interjecting here is you guys can talk
about it It is entirely relevant So it should not be part of your decision making process So if you take into account it and Mr pillar started with this The covenants restrictions are completely beside the point The
applicant I want you to know that I pointed out to the applicant that the these restrictions uh regardless of what happens may preclude her from obtaining permit being able to put
this up If you guys rent the varants she still has to deal with the issue of these covenants restrictions she may be sued by uh her neighbors and the neighbors could prevail in court So what
was explained that and and one of the reasons why there was substantial delay if you recall this has been on the agenda for several times It was explained to her that you're going to go through this process It's a lengthy process It costs money It takes time you
should go consult with an attorney and discuss the uh covenants restrictions You should do your research because you you may be entirely wasting
your time because the variance process and these covenant restrictions occur in two separate and distinct worlds So that it has absolutely no bearing on our analysis So I understand you said you're
asking it with curiosity I just want to make clear to all the other decision makers Whatever your thoughts are about restrictions for your purpose of your decision making they don't exist if I might respond to your
question because I agree with everything he said regards the governance of restrictions entirely different thing that will have to be resolved in court Um the what I've handed out though uh I
would like to speak to uh in the applicants package they seem to uh imply that uh I lacked agency in in addressing this uh because the
original company uh was voluntarily dissolved in the late60s What I've handed out to you is the current and successor corporate entity that uh owns the lots out there
in the Breezy Point subdivision now So there's been no break in ownership This property has been owned by my family for over 60 years without breaking ownership uh it's very common uh as the law has
evolved to go from one corporate structure to another So this what's in front of you is the success or pardon me corporate entity I have a question Um so now I understand
what why they were bringing out the um pool and things of that nature So when we made mention of the dock is that to be taken into consideration as far as an accessory unit Because when I look at the
recommendation and it says um limit the number of accessories on the property to so that is my recommendation So if you guys grant the variance and you make that a condition it's a code requirement
The applicant will have a choice as to which accessory structures she has in the property [Music] You grant if the variance gets granted she can exercise that variance if she wishes to do so She might be
involved in a lawsuit Who knows Uh above above ground pools can be removed Obviously there would be choices to make and there's there's as few as you pointed out there there'd be three
structures three accessory structures [Music] So does that answer your question Yeah So basically whether we approve the variance or not she still has some battles if you will that she would have to fight maybe to possibly get the if
that if that's what she want to do I I think Mr Mr Miller has made that clear and certainly she was advised that in the very beginning That's the reason for the delay She was told to go consult with an attorney and come back and let us know if you really want to go through
with this And so here we are Thank you Thank you Well Lisa 108 South Main Street Um my husband and I live across the lake from Cheryl and um I have some other questions but I just wanted to ask a
factual question and about the land development code Mr Green mentioned that um a covered dock is considered an accessory structure one of that that it
would count Does it have to be a covered dog The the reason I'm just asking because I don't think their dog is covered The ones to the north are covered but that particular dog Did I
cut Yes Okay I've been looking at that dock ever since that house was built or the dock was built So I just wanted to clarify I don't believe that's a covered dock I don't know if it makes any difference in the calculations I
wouldn't consider it but it so I mean it it's not an accessory structure and it's not covered I mean it's not under roof you know You I don't think that just just throwing that out there because I don't see a
roof Can I have clarification Is the dog covered or not No it is not No it is not Thank you [Music] Good evening Michael Frank No
relation 83 Lakeshore Drive I'm here to speak in opposition of this variance approval Very simply put it's been beaten to death already They're only allowed two accessory
structures They already have three The above ground pool the existing shed and then there's a smaller shed down by the shoreline by the pier No there's
not We have one shed There's a little this big Looks like a pump with us This is Matthew You don't need to come up when appropriate time Yeah When you're
done well before you you close the public hearing you should give the applicant the opportunity to be the last person to speak and have the opportunity to you know rebut anything that has been said Thank you Okay So there's three
structures accessory structures The smallest structure is near the shoreline by the pier And by my expert opinion it appears to be a little pump house I hate to speculate what it's if
it's pumping water from the lake stellar for the irrigation system That's a code violation But there's three structures on that side array the pool the shed and that little auxiliary structure about
three by four by four Um so that makes three And if you count the pier that's four So there's no room She can't have the carport much as she wants it She has three recreational vehicles
on the site the big motor home a big pontoon boat and then a small rowboat on this on the shoreline in the backyard So we're only allowed two she has
three So to that end it's pretty simple to see that uh she hadn't done her homework speaking of homework And that I want to offer too that I was
never notified And they stated in their letter that the surrounding neighbors know the bearings No one ever came to my house and let me know And there's only five other houses out there to let me know okay this is what
we're proposing to do A neighborhood thing would do that especially a new neighbor in the neighborhood Never happened There was never a sign posted in the yard as to when this variance hearing was going to take place
tonight I think there's something in there that says you have to notify your neighbors and you have to post it in your yard so others could be aware None of that took place The only thing that disturbs me is the
site plan submitted right here and in the package doesn't show the other accessory structures or the above ground pool So to me it's like hm why would they include it They
sketched in the little shed on the very crude site plan that was in the packet They didn't put in the other above ground pool or the smaller structure down here at the shoreline So I just
question why not why not let the people know exactly what you have on your property And to that end when I asked Mark here if he had gone by the property he said yes he had gotten he had gone by the property And I asked did you do a
walk around No He didn't drive by That's Chris On something like this I would think it'd be incumbent upon you to walk the site to see what the conditions are and you would have seen the other accessory structures and brought that into
question that your recommendation is just so sad It's like you didn't do your homework uh the structure that they're proposing is and by profession I'm a retired
architect so I did a a quick sketch of the elevation not that the thing even going to get approved but if they were to build that thing at a 32 pitch that structure would be close to 18 ft tall it would tower over the house it would
tower over the adjacent bushes there is no other structure out in that whole subdivision like that in any way shape or form And I would recommend for the board to go out there and go out and visit sites when they're up for variance
request so you can see firsthand what you're up against and not have to rely on faulty photos or bad sketches in the in the packet So
yes a comment or two and I'll I'll wrap it up The structure it's not compatible with the home Um metal roof The home doesn't have a metal roof The
[Music] Yeah So the structure would be over 18 ft tall tower over the residence It would be visible eyesore and would diminish the value of the adjacent property owners The proposed structure lacks a
unity of character of design lacks it very lacking in it So I don't know how you could justify it It would detract from the character value and attractiveness of all of the adjacent
properties The design scale and location would greatly detract from the character value and attractiveness of the surroundings So that's pretty much what I have to say I
am requesting you to die this variance Thank you for your time Thank you May I speak with any other Okay As I said before Lisa came to 108 South Main Street and the backyard of my
property looks out on directly across the lake or cutting corner across the lake on the applicants property Um the applicants are wonderful neighbors uh they keep their house and yard in great condition just like people who owned it
before and I have no position on whether you should or should not grant this variance but I do have some questions and observations and I I do have just a couple of concerns as you think about
what should be done here Um Mr Frank answered one question I had which is it became apparent to me um that the structure would be tall because it would have to cover an RV that it will be 18 ft tall And I apologize Um I was really
not aware Sorry that's supposed to be on do not disturb That's my goal Um the there's something blinky about the city notification system my husband and I signed up for notices of all the
meetings and they're not coming out consistently Um so I wasn't really aware this was on the agenda until today I didn't have a chance to look at the packet but my concerns are um is the RV is parked on the property now Is the um
putting it in the um carport to be constructed the one that's the bearings is requested is that going to bring it closer to the lake And the reason I asked that is because um the you know the property slopes down
to the lake there is an issue of cut mass in terms of um Mr Frank mentioned blooming and um it's just a unique feature of lakefront property in Crescent City especially when you're on the west side
You can see that property from the lake park from the boat ramp all the people who face that property I don't think our code really takes adequate consideration of that that your neighbors are not just the ones um on the land side your
neighbors are also want the ones on the lakeside So um I'm a little concerned about bringing that RV closer to the lake and you know how that will look in proportion to the other structures I thought Mr Frank raised a good question
about that Um certainly uh the issue of the hedge came up Um anything that could be done to soften the appearance of another structure with landscaping would greatly help Um it's
not just their property but other properties on that side of the peninsula Um some of the accessory structures you know tend to which are they're allowed They tend to give it kind of a cluttered look And I think it could look better
with some landscaping to soften it um you know to kind of screen it You talk about screening from the neighbor to the north but the whole there's a much larger community that looks directly into those yards and screening would
help with you know some landscaping Then this is just an observation that I have um about the 910 square ft and the metal roof and it's going to be 18 ft tall and I know they have very good grass out
there Um we changed uh after 2017 with Hurricane Irma we changed from a shingle roof to a metal roof And the um water runs off of the house much faster And so I don't know whether it will make a
difference for the drainage affecting the applicant's house or how fast water runs into the lake It might be mainly for their house But for 900 ft of metal roof that's 18 ft tall um I would
imagine the water that's going to land on that in a heavy storm should be taken into account particularly I I just it should be taken into account by the property owner or whoever permits it or whatever because like I said we've
noticed a difference on on our property and it's affecting our garage um we're going to we have to divert water away from the garage So those are just my observations and thank you all very much for your very good work and staff as well I have a question Yeah Um
are you saying that the amount of water that's going to run off the 18t tall roof Is that going to actually make trenches along the house and go out Brad I don't know I'm not an
engineer I wouldn't begin to be able to calculate any of that I just know Thank Thank you very much for your I mean I I don't know I'm just throwing that out there because we notice a big difference
and water cooling on your property Um like I said we're having to kind of divert water from our garage now So okay So so just first of all you're going to make your decisions based on criteria right anything that's associated
with the the construction or how it's constructed or you know how it might place that all you're making a decision about the setback You're not making a decision based on on what you think might could happen Okay You're making
your decision based on the criteria Now you did hear from some members of the public They had some ideas about things like screening So that gets to some of the criteria the compatibility issues So if you wanted to
say that the the hedge needs to be you know extended or brought around the structure if you wanted to say that the structure shouldn't be brought closer to the lake because that is a compatibility issue Yes But getting into you know what it might cause in terms of
uh you know storm water run all that is sort of you know place and and manner issues that are associated with the building permiting process So
that's just one want to make that clear Okay Nobody has any more questions for me Okay I just brought it I mean you're the professional I don't know anything about that Excuse me Sorry Uh it's an interesting point to run off of the metal roof Um
and of course this variance is to eliminate the side question for me I'm speaking to you Oh you are You can sit if you'd like Thank you
Um we're reducing 16 to 5 and a quarter It doesn't give much much room for runoff between the property and uh line Um and as I look at the adjoining house
uh it's quite close Anyway it's just observation I'm making Thank you May I speak please the the the applicant needs to be given the last opportunity to speak So if you guys are done asking questions or or hearing from the
public may offer additional comment Yes please Yes And thank you We certainly had a spirited uh Danny Miller again for the record pardon me U certainly been a spirited conversation
uh the I see I'd like to offer there are two overriding issues One is that and and help me with this that the idea of limiting the
number of structures on the property is so that you don't have too intense of a use on a residential property Would that be fair statement cuz cuz the the what we have here is a property needs to be very very
intensively used That's point one Point two as I understand it the predicate for even consideration of a variance is that the
applicant must establish hardship So the question that that then lingers in my mind is what is the hardship I see a very strong desire to have another accessory building so that
the RV can be parked there That's a desire There's no there's no demonstrated hardship that I see If in fact that is the prerequisite for consideration it strikes me that you
kind of without that how how we move forward with granting of a variance Correct Correct me if I'm wrong please Thank you Do we have any more public comments at this time So we would
like to come back Melissa Frank 195 Chestnut Street Crescent City So I just want to say our building's not going to be 18 feet tall I don't know where he got that but we're looking at 12 feet
I mean we just need it tall enough to put our RV under not 18 ft So and we do have a metal roof on our home and we do not we have an uncovered dock and whatever storage that you're
speaking of it's a sink on the dock and it was there when we moved there Frank to us please It's just a sink There's a sink on the dock It was there when we moved there It's a little wooden structure sitting on the open dock And
it's a sink for cleaning fish And we do have a little like a rowboat tipped over on that dock I mean it's just a small twoperson boat It's not motorized or anything It's just a paddle boat And so we have that and the building the
portable building that's going to be moved that it won't be there So basically we have the dock that was there with a little thing for a sink and um that we didn't put there It was you know there when we moved there and uh
the pool So I mean y'all are welcome to come you know look at the area but I mean we're looking at a 12t tall you know garage And I mean we can put a gutter and divert the water but
it's not I mean our house is probably that you know the roof's probably taller on our house than that So and and the the the carports away from the house It's not like it's going
to sit up on top of the house and you know I mean we wouldn't do anything to damage our property you know or put anything out there that you know wouldn't you know be cohesive with you know the look of the house
I I have a few questions Um and what for clarification didn't I read in the occasion that the uh car report was 14 ft and I we don't need it that we just I
think you may have but we after we looked at excuse me so the application is for 14 ft correct no the application has nothing to do with the height It does It does It has to do with the setback What you're hearing is the
setback They're allowed Does no let me explain Let me let me They're allowed to go to the the height of the district They they could go Well was there anywhere in documentation that
it it stated 14 ft was the desired height Do you remember Mark I I don't remember Okay But you could Well So let me explain You don't need to explain Let me explain the other You guys can impose a height restriction if you think
that is reasonable Right But there are certain aspects of this application that that you're not deciding on Right So you have to assume when you grant a mirror just
like you establish zoning uh for a piece of property right And it allows certain setbacks and allows certain heights People may build to the maximum right You you
you that's not restricted or controlled right So if you want to impose a restriction or condition on the variance you you may do so But thank you Mark I did find that uh
in the letter to whoever may concern that was written in 14t tall My my point was that and now Miss Frank is saying that she she's only she only needs 12 That's all And I understand your point
Okay Um um Mr um so for clarification there's only um besides the main residence now there is the pool Yes That was recently uh permitted and and that's
complete Correct Yes It's been finalized It's finalized Yes Okay There is one check Yes That's going to be moved that's going to be moved Yes And there is no other shed No On the property No there is not Okay Just for I think that
it is confusing in this documentation that shed you show the shed Yes It would have been helpful if it stated to be removed Okay You see what I mean I think I put
portable Maybe I didn't Uh no Okay No Well my mistake But yeah it's we're moving it It's It will not stay And in your world what's the length approximately Probably 12 ft 12 ft Thank
10 to 12 feet maybe And then the other uh um the other statement that was uh brought up was that the property was was not posted for this meeting Yes it was posted the sign just just recently
because the sign's been out there since last November and so during like a bad windstorm we had it went back and forth and it broke the legs off and it had the date for last year anyway and so um I stuck it up on my
mailbox until probably a week ago I posted it up on my mailbox but the date was incorrect and the reason you weren't notified is because You're not in the 300 ft That's why you were not notified Sorry That's
that's addressing us I'm sorry That's why he wasn't notified He is not in the 300 foot area Okay Well I believe that I just read in 350 He's not in it though Well I correct 3350 Yeah So everybody that
was in that area received the letter Okay Uh Mark for clarification uh as as Frank just stated it um it was posted um last fall um upon a new hearing date
Should have been reposted uh I think they sent out letters Yeah there was letters sent out continuance It doesn't necessarily need to be I mean that's not again
It doesn't need to be but it should But the proper thing to do is to post it for a new meeting Wouldn't you agree Ideally yes Yeah Thank you That's all Yeah And as you stated uh notices were
sent out for many notices were sent out and obviously anybody who's here saying that he did notice obviously they were aware of the action I was going to be taking right
It's by word of mouth if not by notice Okay Thank you Thank you very much Did you want to say anything else All right Thank you So at this time we are So both hearings closed It's correct Yes Well at
this time public hearing comments are closed comment I'd like to offer Okay You will have to give the whatever he says you're going to have to let the applicant you don't have to hear anymore because you closed the public hearing So
it's entirely up to you So you could reopen it Just understand got to get the applicant has to have the last Okay So okay Little Michael Frank 83 Lakes Shore Drive Just as a point of clarification
about the posting on the notices I would think as a neighbor in the neighborhood you want all your neighbors whether they're within that 350T radius or not When the first time the burriage got posted it was posted the afternoon of
the meeting that night It wasn't posted like a week or two in advance And that sign has been missing for weeks So there's no yard notification That's all I'm saying It was
very suspicious in my humble opinion why it wasn't posted earlier upon that first one back in November or December and then why it hasn't been reposted to let the next and I come with solutions to this
So I would offer to the um the property owner to just buy a RV cover thing that cost about 300 bucks that'll protect your RV much better than a carport It'll protect your front windshield your top your sides your back
So if it was me I just invest in a RV cover and call it a day Thank you Um I don't have any further comments I'm not going to go tip or t with him Okay Can you just come and state your name
and say at this time No further comments 195 Chestnut No further comments Thank you Thank you Okay At this time public comments are closed and we will move with the recommendation of the
board Yes Can you discuss anything more Um do the board have any else that they would like to Yes Okay Um the first the first thing I want to talk about is the letter from
Mark [Music] and with the comprehensive plan I I provided you guys with a copy of the comprehensive plan and it says that the city has developed land development
codes to implement its comprehensive plan So all the codes we're talking about reference to the comprehensive plan Okay And u and but at the end here it says it
says in part it says and to enhance the appearance function livability of the city to the end of improving all quality of life within the community I don't think I don't this is
contradictory to has no conflict with the comprehensive plan I believe it has a lot of conflict with the comprehensive plan Um the other thing I'd like to talk about is the other thing I want to talk about I'll just bring up again We're
requesting a 35x 26 square foot thing but in actuality it's 910 square ft which is more than more than six Sure
Um and then number three it says the color and roof line of the carport will complement those of the primary residents and property Um this is a prime example of what's called cherrypicking the
codes right Because the real code [Music] says I I have it here You want me to read it No I can read it It's um under 3191H and it talks accessory building shall conform to the setback requirements according
to zoning district and uh shall not cause any excessive or maximum building coverage or maximum impervious coverage and establish
responsible zoning district [Music] The other thing I wanted to talk about under u general purpose um land development codes section 1.4
4 G it says that promote a high quality of architectural design developed off from the quality of life Then G says protect the character of the existing new residential
neighborhood from incompatible development I think I think what you're trying to do is definitely incompatible incompatible as far as architectural design
you know the uh last last month we had a uh a guy that came in and did this And when it talks about roof line it it it it's more talking about a roof line that's attached to a house It's not talking the spirit of that is
not talking about a separate building with a a you know three four pinch roof It's talking about something that's attached So and I I'm probably one of the newest ones here So we're talking about you got
to understand the the pictures that are shown those are just illustrative of what she wants to do to the criteria associated with the architectural pyramid that all gets impo
A A You can add some additional criteria That all gets imposed at the building permit time right So so if you guys have concerns if you want to add criteria as long as they're reasonable and you're concerned about the appearance you can add those
conditions but you wouldn't be denying it based on a a picture of something that is just I understand what you're saying I'm just you know just clarifying you know cuz he he was talking about the land own which
is why we're here because they want to vary you know they want to do something um different from what state And so you know when he keeps reiterating that you
know we looking at the land development code and making sure that it is not you know um that is abiding by the rules and regulations that are there So I feel like I've heard a lot today Um and one
it was a lot of information some points were made but keep going back in line to what he saying to keep me focused because you know some of the questions that I had when I looked at and I heard the the questions and the statements that were made answer some of my
questions and so when you were you know saying that it's going against the land development code or um just are you basing it off of what is already stated because that is what they're doing varants is because they it was if it was
600 ft they have to come in for us to say that they want to do something a little different So you're saying they need to get a variance That's what this Well that's what they're asking The variance is why we're here today
Why we're here today is the act right And so the title said there's a variance from section 3.19 of the land but it doesn't meet the land development code So right So what they
So when folks come before us we have a guideline but they come and they request for something different And that's what the applicant is requesting for us to change the variance
change the variance of the size of the car to to change from the guideline that is stated in the policies So they can come and ask for something
different and that's what we have to and that's what we have to decide on So they you know we they can ask come and request for something different So it's a deny or we can make some
changes Yeah So that that we don't have to just because this has been implemented it's in place to guide us So okay this is what it is but they are requesting and want
additional space and it's up to us to make that decision to try to accommodate the citizens of this community you know work with them And so for that one that what you referred to that we met on the last
time they were added on to the house So if there's my understanding that the carport is not attached to the house it's a freestanding um accessory unit that's on that slide But in in the L development code it
talks about um the roof line needs to match the existing property or you know conform architecturally to the existing property which is and I don't think that if you just
put down the color and the roof of the car will complement those of the primary res right so so so that's this condition that I'm suggesting right if you want to
add additional criteria additional conditions I think you're you're free to do so you you shouldn't deny the variance based on what staff wrote as a
recommendation that you could consider as opposing in imposing on the variance If you think there needs to be more you should say that But the fact that I wrote color and roof line certainly should not be a basis for denying the
variance request And that's for now you guys could say we want to continue this and come back and you show us exactly what it is you want to do and we'll you know we'll rehear it you know so that's
perfect within your right to do that Uh you've heard some testimony about notice lack of notice is not a var is not a reason to deny the variance it might be a reason to redo the hearing If you guys feel like you know there's been
insufficient notice you can continue this hearing to another meeting and notice can be repeated But it lack of notice is not a basis for denial It's not part of the criteria I have a my biggest issue is that I I don't see a
hardship I don't see a proven hardship What's the hardship It's as simple as that I mean you must prove hardship And I I don't see hardship And so then the next thing is that we probably need to
define hardship What you know because we could have another case that comes before us and we're going to have to be able to define um what what is hard Yeah Now each stands on its own and it own condition So you're not you're not creating a
precedent here but you guys Mr D is just correct That's a relevant question Is there or is there not a hardship You've heard what I have to say You've heard what the applicants have to say You've heard from uh members of the public and you've heard from at least
one member with what he thinks about whether you're hardship You guys have to collectively decide is there or is there not a hardship and that is you know that issue is on point you know I mean I I have um I have other concerns
but fundamentally that's that's the big one right There isn't a proven hardship Well actually and this has probably been about 30 or 40 minutes ago In my mind I was feeling before I
said that I think that we really need to take this and probably bring it back um before we make a decision I would like for I would like to be able to study the situation a little more Would
you like for them to see more on the hardship the next time they come before us Yes So and give us time to really really because a lot was said
um and present it so we can go back review and have a better understanding before we make a decision I I really would like to
um be able to do that I think that um in any application it's a responsibility to state a hardship That's the beginning
Um and it is typically done It's this is failed to do to do that Um and and moving along I um I in finding it um hard to understand
how achieving a um a um a architectural design quality equal to the home is going to be achieved
um with a carport Um and as the applicant stated what was uh what was supplied is not anything near which he desires Um but th this
home it's a beautiful home It sits on a stunning piece of property on beautiful Lake Stella we have a responsibility to maintain the the integrity of that neighborhood And um this this
illustration again as the applicant uh told us is is not the intention but we um it's going to be very costly in my mind to achieve the architectural quality and to uh
maintain the beauty of the site and of the home Um the [Music] um otherwise quite honestly I'm afraid it's going to do just the opposite It's not going to enhance the neighborhood
It's it's going to do just the opposite It's going to devaluate the neighborhood It is one of our finest neighborhoods in the city Um and there's great potential there
Um so I I understand the desire to to to cover one's property Um but there are alternatives as uh with the RV for instance Um and um that is parking it somewhere
else Uh and there are many uh facilities that offer secure parking for RVs To me it's it's not as though they're using it as a guest house Um I'm sure that uh um
it's it's a it's a nice quality RV that they travel a lot in it but not on site Um they they currently have a beautiful garage um and and so forth So I mean just
briefly those are my those are some of my concerns Um and and to me to to build a carport for these items of that size is
going to be excessively expensive particularly you know we're in Florida uh and where there are hurricanes and obviously they'll want a structure uh that is hurricane proof and to protect
their neighbors from you know unnecessary uh debris Uh the the other is uh the square footage size Um what is proposed is is is a very large
uh structure carport Um as as we've read there's a limit to 350 square ft Is that correct 600 ft is is the limit for an accessory structure
for for for this uh location Yeah If you're over 350 you have to there are architectural standards that get imposed right But the actual limit on the size and accessory structure is 600 square ft
and so that's why if you recall in my presentation I I said I was recommending in favor of the setback variance but I was not recommending you size Yes uh recommend
eye in the size Yeah So uh so your recommendation would limit it to 600 Is that correct Would limit to 600 square f feet and there only be two accessory structures right
Yeah So those uh those are my thoughts um on it Um I felt like we had a whole conversation when that was summed up in the beginning of of the um of this
meeting So what is the recommendation Um I would like to recommend that um we give the applicant that we um come back revisit give the applicant the opportunity to show us um a hardship
and show us a design um that will be more um of the outcome What will be expected if we Mark if we were deni deny it
tonight Uh could the applicant resubmit Uh the applicant could uh yes could change you know could change the variance in some way and resubmit And will that cost her more
money to Yes Sure Anyway so so you have like you have a couple options You could continue it with with some direction to the applicant as to what you'd like them to bring back You can you can make a
decision So in the but where it says state the reason for the request that meet the I one thing I do want to point out to you there's there's only four members here So a tie vote will be a denial I
[Music] have you know there's already two violations of the bill First of all it's the 600 versus 910 ft If we were to grant for a variance to
make it 910 square feet I think we would be setting a very dangerous precedent because as because people are going to say well so and so has a 910 square ft You approve that Why
can't we do that We're not that's not what was recommended If we look at his recommendations he said he he approved the var but not the size Okay So you guys have decide on your own right But just my
recommendation you guys could grant the variance for the size and the setback You can separate them as I did You you get to decide Okay Well there's already two infractions The size and the number of
accessory things I mean why do we have to go into causality and in regards to the hardship There's already two violations there We can we can uh we could take a vote make a motion to deny it and vote
on it or the other option Yeah the chair recommend suggested we can continue it Um we can approve it Um so there are so we just need state action Just for
clarity sake if you make motion make a motion to approve That way a yes approves it and a no denies it It just makes it easier I make a motion for approval
We need a second Second Well we have to ask Well you have you need a second And if there's a second there's a vote If there's no second somebody else could make you know a motion That motion could be for continuous could be for not I was
recommending that there be a positive just just for clarity sake but that's that's up to you all I me personally I feel like we need to do a continuum because I just feel like that there's some question
on the board just for clear Then I'll make a motion that we continue this Okay So noted my motion failed for lack of a second Now you're free to So yeah So So
when you do continue it continue it to a time certain a date continue to the next meeting Next meeting will be I make a motion to continue the consideration of the day to the next meeting
It has been motioned and seconded that we continue the variance until the next meeting All in favor I I I say I I
So So you're the next meeting I think there you put it up on the record that you guys want to see what this is going to look like that we um explain the hardship and what it's going to look like for clarification So
um and we want to have an idea of what um and I she's been here so she will be able to answer our concerns Oh architectually is going to complement the fine home that exists
May I ask just a process question if I may Yes Is that is that appropriate Yes Um it sounds as if the uh applicant if they decide to come back they have a lot of work to do between now and the uh
meeting Uh my concern would be that if the package comes in at the last moment that doesn't allow me enough time to prepare I need to get that to an attorney and let them do their do their
job And if it's down to 48 hours it's impossible So just process questions Is there some deadline by which the applicant must get this
revised package in and uh if it's close to the meeting time is 30 days you have the next meeting an appropriate interval Well I mean although we're not legally required to do so we're going to renotice this
We've renoticed each of the continuances along the way So I mean we don't have the information in time to put to to get out the 10day notice So So should should I just for um when they
did the original application shouldn't they have listed that already Excuse me When she did the consisting what um the reason for the request that meet the criteria for hardship Yes It's incumbent upon the applicant to
list conditions Now m Mr Miller handed out basically the old the criteria that that was handed out by Miss Miller that that's the criteria in the old land code It's very
similar to the criteria of the new land code What was in the new land code is what's in my my staff before But the criteria are very similar May I respond Yes I got that directly off of the city
website and I've also heard a conversation um about the staff recommendation that leads me to believe that maybe there were some changes and that wasn't was that posted and made
available Were there some last minute changes No the land development code that was changed application form though A new application form has been is being used now This is available on the website
form I believe that it is available It's it's a combined form Okay Somehow Yeah I got an incorrect one that you got an older one I'm just trying to stay in step here and I'm having trouble Thank you
Can I just ask the question Yes Go ahead If if you choose to resubmit an application with all the criteria she's not resubmitting a new application right
You guys you're continuing So she can provide supplemental information that you've directed her to do How how long do you envision it's going to take to get you to have for you to get all that
supplemental information Well I mean y'all let me know what you need and I can have it submitted you know fairly quick because you'll have to go back to whoever is your your your contractor
right Okay You'll have to make some final decisions as to you know what you think the carport should look like Okay And then present you know provide that with your
application You're also being given up you're being given opportunity to uh you know further describe the hardship because apparently there's there's some uh disagreement or or or difficulty with
everybody understanding whether there is or isn't a hardship So this one thing you speak about the storage shed Yes Um I even have that re taken off the
property Yes And when is that As soon as I have it everything moved out of it It's I have birds uh portable storage building Um probably within a month I can have it moved off
Okay Okay Thank you very much Thank you Motion to second It's been properly motioned and second that the planet consulting is a
Crescent City Historical Preservation Board meeting April 17 2025 will now come to order That's how we'll have the approval of
the minutes We same as proposed ma'am So those available next meeting Okay Um minutes will be available at our next meeting Next we will have public
comments So do any of you have any comments Okay And madam chair may I introduce our new member Yes Frank Murray who's this first meeting with us Frank you want to tell us something
about yourself Okay Uh Frank Murray my wife and I moved to Crescent City about a year and a half ago Uh we have a nice lean to one side I have a nice view of the lake from my house and we thank you And uh we find it to be
a really wonderful place with a lot of opportunity and I I look forward to serving in whatever capacity I can for historical preservation of this fine city You're welcome Thank you Thank you Delighted you're with us Thank you
We will now move on to business items Um number one our new business Um we have um um before uh you there is the uh the
u peninsula historic society uh has has done uh this historic marker for the hub house And this is uh this is as you can see it's still at the factory It uh it needs to be painted
and our cute coat is going into it but I just wanted to share it with you and uh we hope to have it here Um and um the city has uh uh agreed to uh approve the
rightway location for it Um and um on Lake and um and agreed to have the staff uh install it for us Uh and we hope to do one of these a year
Okay Okay Um next is the uh is the of course May is historic month and um and these are some of the
items that are going on uh during that month You can see the first one is April 26 and it is the uh it's a it's a kickoff uh turn of the century time tour starts at
11:00 Um a tour of the past and it will the co it starts at the corner summit in central a and um so the uh plum players are going to be stationed throughout and and
do a series of little uh presentation representing some of our u uh city founders And this we've done the house at you know tours before this is the first time
that we're we're introducing and doing joint efforts with players So it will be great fun Uh and then you can see uh see the other events uh going on as well Uh and of course the 26 is is the
festival uh at market square as well spring fest So that's uh that's new business Next we will have old business See we're up to date with old business Okay And we've introduced our new member
Okay All right So number four the new moon lodge update Um we are still looking for grants and a grant writer I
um spoke with someone about 11 to save and that's where they save 11 historical buildings somewhere you have to apply and um and I was able to get more
information on it about it So we need to fill out the paperwork and it recognizes building So if you are selected it's not necessary that you get grant money but it puts you in a
position when you apply for a grant that you have been um recognized as a historical building or one of the lesson So it actually assists when you are applying to help people So um that's
where we're at We continue to um raise money for the building We will have a event on Saturday May the 3rd a fundraiser where we will be having our annual yard sale with a twist And um so
we have fish and chicken dinners And if anyone would like to have a table $20 um per table for the yach So that's all I have on the new moon
Yes I'm not familiar with the new watch What What is that The It's on It's 107 Main Street around here Um on Main Street around the corner And um what it is it's uh it was the the lodge and the
Masonic Lodge I'm sorry And um it was they were trying to tear it down but learned that it was um a historical landmark And so therefore the organization concerned citizen requested
that we were able to save the building to try to work to take ownership of the building so we can um have it reconstructed so it can continue to service um the black community as it did at that time
Next we will have a Miller Middle School update Oh I'm sorry Christina That's okay I just wanted to mention um firstly if there's anything anything I can help you with as far as um applications or
anything you know I'm always here to help you Okay Um and then secondly um are you aware and I'm hoping you all are being on this board aware of the available grants I know RG recently
provided us with a list of um potential grants and there may be some applicable to those dollars So I think that's something that maybe the board should explore and um I can make a copy of this for
everyone um to review but I just think it's relevant to the um call especially with it um African-American heritage and you know the cultural aspect of it Um there are some grants that are are focused on preserving those type of buildings I
think it's worth exploring Yes Our issue is just finding a grant writer Um I like I found grants and people send me but it's just having someone that under really understand the process um to help
write them So okay that's and every time someone like the last lady she got sick the person before that got too busy another person So that's what we're running into Okay My understanding is um the city works with two different grant
writers So maybe I can help in some way Maybe us working together or continuing that conversation Reach out to them and and we can um see if that's feasible or doable rather Okay All right That sounds good Thank you Yes I do have a question
Uh looking for a grant writer Does it have to be someone who is professionally a grant writer or can it be someone who understands grant writing and has done it in the past I'm not well versed in that subject but I can get an answer And
um I'm not hearing my wife Okay But she has uh she's worked for Georgetown University Hospital and other hospitals Uh and she's written for a lot of grants So I I don't know that she would be
willing to be speaking out of turn until I speak with the boss you know And and I and I understand that because I know like I wrote one grant but it wasn't on this scale Just something simple for $400 and you know it wasn't you know
something But on that level I you know I'm not aware some of the simple questions I can answer but not so I might be able to rope her into something requirement for usual because some people just know what to
say she knows exactly what to say yes I'll get some adisement from our city attorney and just make sure there isn't anything with regards to a volunteer helping us with um grant for this this
I think any help we can get would be greatly appreciated and we're all eager to hear of your success I'm just curious about which one is that The one you're just talking about
the building She's looking for grants in general Grants in general Oh so a list of grants He's thinking that you're talking about a particular grant and he wanted to copy
Oh Um but what I'm This one is I I see I think you just um it's like different grants out there that covers different historical um building
and historical building Yes And some of them are specifically for historical African-American movements Yeah So you have those up there Yeah
Um Yes Thank you Michael Frank 83 Shore Drive If I could offer some comments on the new moon lodge as an architect my career choice and I've seen this building over
here behind me uh for reference There is no way that can be restored renovated updated It's been vacant for over 10 years 10 years I've been here it's been vacant and boarded
up by that time And there's so much infestation black mold You would have to strip it down And even the foundations are shaky You would basically have to knock it down and build the whole thing up There's nothing left there Doesn't even have good lines as they say in the
business to try to restore and renovate It's It's past that point Um I don't know if you're aware that we did have a structural rent done to it Yeah And it it is okay the building is okay Yeah And I question who who brought it to you
It's at the level of this consultant that we had previously I sincerely question it Go walk around the building Look for yourself It's falling apart And I as a taxpayer and that's where the grant money comes from is us taxpayers I
would not want to see my taxpaying dollars go to the effort to restore that building that's just barely standing up And then you mentioned that it would be for the black community Why about the white community or the
Hispanic community When she made that statement I said that it the building that service the black community that that's what I said at that time this building will serve this I would I would recommend not even wasting time trying
to find a grant because that building is just beyond repair in my humble opinion I've been a professional architect for 30 years It doesn't mean to you what it means to some of us And I pay tax I'm a
taxayer and I pay for stuff that I don't approve but I don't have a say So So let's play out If it gets restored what would it become then It will be a building to well to have bigots to educate people financially economically
um just ser service our elderly just who bears the burden center and the maintenance and everything long run insurance liability who is on the hook for that we well we
surely wouldn't ask you so no I'm asking You would it be the city or would it be it would be us the concerned citizens for county to come up with the money to maintain the property keep it mo yes operation yes okay yes and we can do
that all right well that's my recommendation and good luck with your efforts just a question in in regular building codes um if you're going to renew
property it has to uh the renewal has a certain limit In other words if it if it needs 99% renewal they're not going to grant you remodeling on
building Do you is there a percentage that you guys go on as to whether it's feasible to review Well we got to the stage what we were waiting on and what we got was that
structural grant to see how we needed to proceed and that has been done and given the okay It was a presentation that was done here on the building So that is that's all we needed So that was the
goal to say that it was okay The building is strong and but there's no money involved on how how much you can actually put into restoration Um not that I'm aware
of I can speak to my experience but it's been 30 years there Um and um I'm speaking with Broward County for a lot of there There was a certain amount that
um let's say you couldn't spend um 80% on renovation you had to bring it up to a certain extent but there was a ceiling on how much you could spend to do it So
to answer your question yes because I know that's you know with the regular building permits and stuff that puts out there and and I'm not sure what that limit is today I I just wanted to comment on grants and
then the uh possible uses Um from my involvement with the uh historical society over the last several years uh it's become very apparent to me that uh the Florida
legislature is providing uh substantial funding for underrepresented communities in the area of history uh primarily African-American communities uh in Florida So the money is there Uh I u
have some understanding of uh Michael's concerns as to cost and certainly like the school here uh is beyond the capacity of the city U some will require
some sort of legislative appropriation Uh I would suggest given the the really derelic condition building I think we all acknowledge that uh that you're probably easily in the center
phase and that's going to be heavy lift with the legislature and uh you may want to with any big project when you're trying to sell it to someone like the legislature it has to
go through committee and that kind of thing screening committees Um I'd suggest that it's imperative that you kind of begin with the end in mind have a solid plan for what the ultimate use
of the property is going to be Um and then how it will be operated thereafter because it'll certainly be operating cost We're looking at much the same thing the school if that ever works out uh otherwise the uh perception in such a
request will be that it's kind of a pipe dream You know something they'd like to do but there's no plan So the money's there It's going to take a solid plan with an absolute focus on when it's done This is who's going to be our partners
and this is how it's going to be operated So hope it's helpful Thank you Thank you And I'd like to add that you you you may you may find at the end of the day after a long journey that it's best to
duplicate it than to restore it It it say it comes in at 50% You know um you'll you'll have to I suggest you be open to that analysis and um decide which is which is
the best Okay we'll move on to the middle of middle school Uh before as I have passed out from RG architects who were doing the study on the school uh their time uh
timeline schedule and as you can see we're in April and by the end of May they will be completed So at that time um we'll have their analysis we'll have their renderings and um it will give us a
great deal of of information on how best to move forward Um the second piece of information from REGG architects uh is is the multi-page
uh one and which is eight pages and it describes uh the various uh state and federal federal level grants or assistance that can be provided for preservation restoration and maintenance
Um I wanted to share with you uh this information um because uh it's it's it's very important and of course as we all know there are many competing for
grants Um it is um I also advise that this committee make a recommendation um to the commission to proceed to seek
work on obtaining grants We we are an advisory committee to the commission and I think it's appropriate that we have this information before us and make a recommendation that they uh have our
grant writers uh start working on grants [Music] And to that end I'd like you to make a recommendation that we um recommend to the present city commission um that
they they seek our grant writers to start working on grants the school Is there a second Okay It has been a motion and second that we do a recommendation to the city
commission to seek out grant writers for Miller Middle School and for the historical preservation committee that the question did you request grant risers to did you
request or and what's the recommendation to the commission to start seeking writers for the for the Miller Middle School and for the historic preservation committee board I would actually like to see I'm not I
was just asking for it's to this is to start working to have our grant writers start working on the uh uh on on the grants on the federal school Um I am uh and then I'm next uh reporting on the
historic survey and then I'll touch on Yes Yes Um is that clarified Kim Yes Thank you Okay So you need a motion So it has been motioned and second that we
um request that the city seek out grant writers to start working on grants for middle school Correct All in favor
I All oppose Okay Um next we'll get an update on our historical survey Thank you So I spoke with Paul Weaver who is doing our our historical
survey and which hasn't been done for 30 years and he he's making good progress Um and um uh but he pointed out that
uh we this this uh committee uh will need to start uh recognizing historic properties throughout our city and rec recommending them for nomination
as historical structures on a natural basis a state basis in the city basis and with that there will be grand opportunities So
um so in the future we'll be we'll be uh needing to make a formal request to our fine commission that our grant writers start working on on on grants for these
these new identities So is that will that take place after he completes the survey Uh once he has the survey he identifies the the new structures that are uh included Um then
we can move forward as a group and start nominating it identifying and nominating make any comments So just to clarify those will be two action items on an upcoming commission meeting Yes Thank you
Okay All right at this time Any general discussion Okay All right It is nothing else at this time The historic preservation board meeting has is ajourned Oh I'm sorry I
see a question Uh this uh my question regards uh an updated historic preservation ordinance in the city Uh there is historic preservation ordinance
on the books that uh is toothless we'll say it it really doesn't accomplish much And uh about two years ago our then
city manager uh at the city commission meeting said that he had worked with the then clerk to draft up a new historic preservation ordinance and had sent it
to Tallahassee for input and comment you know that wasn't clear who it was sent to That's been 18 months ago maybe two years ago and that's just kind of lingering This town needs an historic
preservation ordinance badly Uh so I don't know where that is I just wanted to to bring it up for this group's consideration uh it's it's past time and and it's uh
in my mind with this work uh strong add-on it's it should be top priority a lot of work but it's a priority thank you madam chair I'd like to make a recommendation that we ask the city to provide us with
that justification and and distribute a copy to all of us so we can start studying it because I'm sure it's going to input from us I I know when we first establish meet some requirements or do
some things to be considered an actual board which is why we couldn't make any recommendations at that time and so that might be what he was talking um in reference to Yes Yes thank you That's an excellent
point Pardon me Uh as I understand it kind of on the periphery of things The historic preservation ordinance is something that can be worked on and it's a long drawn out process but the uh parallel to that
was becoming a certified local government The first step of being a certified local government if I'm recalling correctly was to become a Main Street community which we are Yes sir And in order to be a certified local
government you have to have an historic preservation ordinance in place So you know who knows where we are on the certified local government because that gets you into more grant money too Exactly Which we desperately
need right And so the historic preservation ordinance is uh critically important It gets us the simplest sense it gets money for the community you know So right F feet and make it happen Yes you're absolutely and
you're absolutely right because I remember that being a CLG had to go through some ordinance and so like you said we got in um deep into the land development code and all of that and then he would give us updates and then we had changes So we So that's a good
Yeah there's just talking about it and it's it's time to move beyond just talking about it right Thank you Thank you Mr Miller for prompting that um conversation If my memory serves me correct I think we did identify a historic preservation
ordinance So I'll research that and report um back to you all um via email if that's appropriate um via email I think I have that readily available Um I remember this being a topic a couple of
years back and um we did in fact um uh find it if my memory serves me correct So let me um let me not seek any further on it but I'll I'll research it and um if not we'll move forward with um certainly doing what we need to do to
move forward with that process So again thank you for bringing that to light We we look forward to receiving several meeting Do you have a proper motion and second
for a German I motion that we adjourn with historic preservation board meeting It has been properly motioned and second that we adjourn historical preservation board meeting
Oh please do Yes Thank you I appreciate it You're welcome Very nice