The historical preservation board meeting December 18, 2025 will now come to order. Roll call, please. >> Green >> here. >> Give me Hardy
>> here. >> Dan Dodge >> here. >> Frank Murray >> here. >> Alice McCoy >> here. Veronica Glover >> here. >> Next item of business on the agenda is the approval of minutes
from our January 27th, 2025 through April 17th, 2025. I move that we accept the minutes uh for January 27, 2025 and April 17, 2025 necessary.
>> It has been properly motioned and second for the approval of the minutes from January 27, 2025 through April 17, 2025. All in favor?
>> I I >> Next we'll have our business items. First item is city codes, land development code changes. So, Madam Chair, uh, first, uh, I'd like to welcome our our new member,
uh, Breington. Thank you for joining. >> Thank you. It's delighted to have you here. My honor. And um and so um last spring the
>> Thank you. >> How's that? >> Um last spring the city completed a historical uh um survey of the city which hadn't been done in
over 30 years. Um and uh uh we have uh today in our package an update summary of uh the conclusions and recommendations. Uh with that um of course it uh
it it further means that uh there needs to be uh a review of the historic preservation ordinances as they stand. And um the the commissioner was fortunate that
Commissioner uh Lori uh accepted the challenge and has just completed uh his uh his draft of it. Um and um
it is now being reviewed and after after he receives comments back um then um it will be presented to us u and the uh
as well as the uh Futland Peninsula Historical Society for coming. Um, and with that, uh, of course, um,
it, uh, it's also probably may impact land development, uh, code changes as well as city codes. Derek, any further comment on that? >> Not at this time. Um, other than that, uh, it is in the review queue. Um,
it is in the review queue and the coordinator will be out for the next two weeks, but we'll get some answers so we can have some feedback in that dialogue moving forward. >> Terrific. >> Thank you. Next, we have
Sorry. Um, would there be any public comments at this time? It's very weird being on this end. >> I We're so accustomed to seeing you up here. >> I'm too
closer to this doesn't take away from my time. You guys have time. Is that better? Can you guys hear me? >> Hi. Um, future Lori 55 Avenue. Um, what
um Mr. Bob said is correct. Um, I for some reason decided that I was going to work on the the historic preservation ordinance mostly because it needed to be done. Um, a little bit of history. We've had historic preservation ordinance in our code since about 1995 I believe
since when we first did the national um register historic district um and unfortunately when we recodified which is a process when you take all of your your ordinances and put them all together to make sure everything's in line with state laws and everything's
caught up and and makes it make it usable and easy to access on website through MUN code. Um in that process the historic preservation ordinance was lost. It it was strike it was stricken. Um part of that was most of that was a
mistake. It was not something that was planned to be done. It was not intentional. Um part of that was because we were rewriting the land development code as you guys all know. I was here with you when we started that process three years. Yeah. Three years ago. Um when we were going through that that
long process, Mark Barat from Z Cohen said that we wouldn't need the historic preservation ordinance because it will all be covered in the land development code. Um that's the reason why Mr. R at the time um took that out of the recation park. So that's why we don't
have a historic preservation ordinance currently. Now, we do have the land development code which does have the uh it does establish the historic preservation board and does have some some of the regulations in it. Um what
we do need to do is to read or adopt a new historic preservation ordinance that will fill in all those gaps and make it so that everything is in line. And so what I tried to do was I attempted to write this ordinance and make sure that it was copesthetic with everything in
the land development code. So hopefully we won't have to amend the land development code because everything that's in there works. It was all updated. It was all current. It all made sense. So this ordinance will just give the rest of it, fill it in. And really
the the real guide that I used was the requirements for certified local government. And that is a designation that you get from the state of Florida and from the National Park Service that kind of gives us some sort of it gives us some I don't know how to say some
make sure that we check all these boxes so that we can take care of historic preservation ourselves and that gives us kind of um more power and more lie also gives us more access to grants and stuff like that. So it's very important becoming a certified local is quite
advantageous and something that has been a goal of this city for five six seven years in the hundreds of plan and it's been in the land development code that we want to do it and in our strategic plan. So we haven't made any progress out that until hopefully now. And um
what our city manager was referring to is I sent the ordinance to uh Dr. Kira Lucas who's the one at the department of state and the division of the bureau of preservation and she oversees the certified local government certification
program. So that's who's looking at it right now. And so those are people that will tell you guys you know you've got a great ordinance. Usually you do that after it's adopted but when I met her and talked to her this summer I was like well we don't know where we're trying to come from. You know we don't know where
we're coming from. And so she she suggested that I could send it to her now. She take a look at it and give me some feedback beforehand because I would I don't think adopting an ordinance and then sending it to them and getting feedback at that point would make any sense. We might as well get it right the first time. Um so that was what I
attempted to do and that's where we are on that. Um my hope is that we'll get some feedback after the first of the year. Um give us some direction and then we can present it to the historic preservation board, let you guys look it over and then we will
suggest or um recommend it to the submission for approval. So we really want you guys to be a part of this because part of that certified local government program is you you being in existence and you the power that you have and what the tasks that you have to
the tasks that you are charged with are what makes the CLG program work. And so some of those requirements are you have to at least quarterly definitely four times a year. Um, and then there's, you know, record keeping and that kind of stuff. But what you would be doing is, um, determining certificates of
appropriateness. That's one of the biggest jobs of historic preservation board. So, when you have a historic building and someone wants to alter it or add on or tear it down, they would need to come before you to get that permission to do that. And so, it would be your job to hear those cases and make
a determination on it. That's that's one of the biggest um jobs of the historic preservation board. So, it's all a process. Um, it was what it's also something that's on his recommendations from Mr. Weaver as to move forward is something that's very important and I'm
just happy that we're finally making making some progress. I think actually the first meeting that we had as a planning and zoning board, I sat right there praying right in that seat and I said, "Hey, this is what needs to be served by local government. Um, we need to do this." And unfortunately, that was
three years ago. And so they haven't we haven't gotten very far since then and that's my fault. But um I I am happy that we're making progress and the city manager has been really great about assisting me and I think we're we're moving in the right direction. So there you go. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.
>> We're so grateful for your final work. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. I'd like to make a comment. Just need to state your name and address for us, please. Okay. >> I'm John Lubo. I live at 566
Highway 17, President City. Can I digress a moment and speak about our chairman? Would you mind? I'm going. When I was much younger,
>> her mother came to me one day. She was very young. She said, "I want my two girls to work this summer putting grass, which is weeding." And I said, "I don't have anything
really." She says, "I need this." Said, "All right." So they went to work. and they were off the street. And here here is Veronica chairing this
committee. I think this is a a testament to small town living here and what Crescent City really is like. We're a true town, a real city. We have an infrastructure.
We have a water treatment water plant. It's a real town and it really functions. And the in the wisdom of the city commission, they decided to do this
survey. And you people serving at no with no pay on this committee. I want to thank each one of you. It's really a comprehensive
survey. It's well done and you can find it on the city's site by just going and you can download the whole thing and look at it. But I'm sure you're all aware of this and I'm saying this for the public good
that the inclusion and recommendation pages which are 224 and the next three are really the meat of the deal. And it has seven conclusions or seven
not conclusions but seven bullet points. And if the if if this committee and the city kind of goes by those bullet points, it'll mean something. But if we just let it sit on the shelf and nothing
happened, then this survey will be a great a great piece of literature, you might say. But this if we if the city keeps this in mind for the future,
the historical preservation of of this little town will will be intact and and held in good shape. And it's really important that we look at our historic buildings and make sure that there's
some organized way of helping helping them not to be just abandoned. >> And I thank you for your your service. >> Thank you. >> Thanks, John. >> Thank you, John. Okay, I will
our next item of business is the historical recommendation nominations. >> Historical markers. >> Yeah, >> I'm sorry. The historical markers So the the historical society has uh has
uh is done the process of uh it's ordered the new sign and um we we are delighted uh uh with it. It it's it's it's being uh it's being made
now uh uh for delivery in time for for May. And um BJ, would you come up and give us an update on it again? Uh BJ is is the one who has been working hand in hand on this
>> for Commissioner. Um hi, it's me again. by avenue. Um, and Mr. Dodge is correct. As you guys know, last year the historical society or actually was this year passed in May, um, we had the ribbon cutting for
historical marker at the Hubard Morris House, which was a great event. It was really great. I still can't, uh, forget the smile on Miss Morris's face when she saw it. And it's really great that we made her happy and we recognized a very important building in Crescent City's
history. The the Hover House is the only individually listed property on the National Register of Historic Places. That's a really big deal. Um we have a National Historic District which has 200 or so contributing structures, but this was way before all of that. It was in
78, I think, when it was listed. So, it's a really neat place and it's a beautiful house if you haven't had a chance to tour or see it. Um, so what we wanted to do, what the historic society wanted to do was every year in May to kind of help celebrate historic preservation month to continue the
process and have a new marker every year. Um, so this next year in May, we are going to be unveiling a marker at the Church of the Holy Comforter um, which is the Episcopal Church right summit. Um, it is a beautiful church. It's one of the oldest churches in town
um, that is still in the same place. I believe the two other churches were moved but and and it really it has a neat history as well. It was uh if you go up and down the St. John's River from CMI to Jacksonville, there is a
uh just a list of churches that were called Carpenter Gothic. They actually came from a pattern book that was developed by um John Upton who designed the Trinity uh Cathedral in New York City. And so he had these patterns and
said, "Here you go. You guys can use this to build churches wherever you are because there was you have local congregations all over the country, but especially in Florida, it was around that time period. And so it allowed them it had kind of a pattern and had some
simple instructions that allowed you to kind of upscale it or down, you know, if you wanted if you had a big congregation, you make them bigger or smaller. But if you start looking at the churches, a lot of them um were Episcopal churches and they have the lancet windows that's really skinny that come to a point. They usually have a
bell tower that's offset to the right. Um and you can look at them and you see the same kind of idea. There's one the one ina um uh Episcopal Church almost it's a little bit different but it has the same
kind of style, the same basic structure. And you can look all over Florida. There's dozens and dozens of them. Um, so it's kind of neat how they're tied together. But each one of them was built using local materials and they're all wood. So they're first of all to exist from 1878 to now is a heck of a
achievement. And the uh the congregation here has done an amazing job of keeping it in good shape. It's a beautiful church. I love always walking or driving by at night and seeing the lights on and stained glass windows. But um it is uh
it'll be exciting to have that honor and to to honor this this facility. Those markers uh are made out of solid aluminum with a a bronze coating and they will basically last forever. I mean I think that marker is going to be out there long, you know, long after all of
us are gone. So um it'll be something that you know helps spotlights the the history of this area and the importance of it and history of that building. Um and so we want to keep doing it every year. Um it does take six months to manufacture it. So as Mr. Dodge said it
has been the wording has been word smith and fought back and forth and um written and rewritten uh because you have a certain number of characters that you can fit on there. And it's a lot harder than even that because you can't have a word that breaks on a line and goes down
the next line and there's like a hyphen in it and that's just weird. So it's a it's a real challenge to make it all fit on there. Of course, you always want to say more than what you have room for. So, we we really cut it down and um and made it kept the meat the important part, but uh it is in production right
now at Semos Studios, which is in Ohio. Um and they're they're the people that make all of the signs that you see, the Florida State ones and like the blue the blue star highways that you see. Those are those were put out in like 60s and those things are still you'll see some of them. They're a little bit corroded,
but they clean them up. It looks brand new. So these things last forever. Um it's really really kind of amazing. Um and it's all still handmade. They make a whole stencil and then do the letters and put them all and lay them all out and then make it all. It's really fascinating process. So it takes six months. It's in process right now. So we
should have it for May. And hopefully you guys will will join us when we do the the ribbon cutting. And um it is sponsored. It says at the bottom sponsored by the city of Crescent City and the Fland Peninsula Historical Society. And um the city commissioner approved that and has just you know has
said in in spirit they will certainly support the program and we're hoping that in the future we'll be able to help fund some of it because as of right now the the historical society has been uh covering the cost and uh and also donors um donated specifically for that and
it's it cost about $3,000 per per. So, um, if anybody has some money laying around and would like to donate it, they will gladly accept it because, uh, it does they are costly, but I think they're a great addition to the community and it's it's good to see them. Um, and we'll have to see what next year is. I don't know. We haven't
decided. They haven't talked about that yet. I don't want to get started on that. So, that good. Do I have any other questions? >> Um, about when we get a date in May. Well, it'll all depend on when they actually are delivering it and whatever date we
for. You know, May is National Historic Preservation Month. So, we always have a lot going on with the Historical Society and we'll try and um fit it together, but as soon as we know, I'll let I'll make sure you guys know, okay? >> Um and we'll try and get out the word to as many people. It's a neat event to be able to be there and watch it when they
finally take it out. And we do have and I do want to say I appreciate the city manager and public works facility and the public works employees. They did an amazing job putting in the one at Molly's house. It was actually a very rainy week and we got it placed a week before we were going to do the uh the
unveiling and actually this the pole that we had ordered was 10 ft tall and they only needed a 7ft tall one. So when they first installed it, it was really tall and facing the wrong way. And before I even had a chance to say anything, it was cut down, turned and everything looked great. So um they did
a really good job. They it was uh and it was it was nasty bud, but it all turned out great and it and you guys can see it now. It's at the bottom of it's on Lake Street. So, it's at the bottom of the hill from the the Morris house because if you put it at the back, it that's not a very >> pretty part of the house. So, if you you
go to Lake Street, you'll see it there. And and I Molly Morris was at our her our potluck just recently just today. And she tells me every time she wouldn't believe how many people have stopped there and read the thing. She's like, every time she goes out to water her her, you know, plants, her flowers on the porch, there's somebody out there.
And I'm like, it's people like that stuff. So, in fact, she she told me that when she first came or when she they were driving around, her and her husband would drive around and look up where markers were and then go to the towns and find them and and go around look on a weekend trip. And I'm like, that's
really great. So, it is now I'm working on the listing on the website. There's a website that does marker listings and so we can I just have to take few more pictures of it and put it on there so that people will be able to look it up and find out where it is and come visit it. So, it's really neat.
>> Thanks. Thank you so much. I think that uh following those remarks uh the uh the the church the holy comforter sign is going to be on 17
and it I believe it's the first one on 17. >> Yeah. >> Uh so uh I'm quite sure that uh that um a lot of people are going to stop and read it. Um but it's it's very exciting.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. Next item will be our historical recommendations nominations. Uh this is with most uh historical organizations uh small or large they have a they have
a running list of important historical properties and often uh they're put in a priority uh most important most dangered and I think that uh um recognizing that Crescent City has a
great history. It it was um uh as as uh Mr. Nub stated, it is a small community meeting with great um with great families coming together, population
coming together and a tight bond um and extremely successful. uh with that we all recognize that there are very important structures and I think it's time that we give thought and
develop a list um in the coming months of of what we recognize as as priority historical properties. Any others have comments? >> I have a comment.
>> Um, anybody? But um I I do agree that um that is something but we we're we'll call we'll get you we'll get you Miss Angel. Just hold on. Um I do agree that we need to start working on compiling
that list together. Um because we have talked about that in several of our meetings. So that is something that we need to start doing. So anybody else have any input?
>> Okay. So yes, go ahead. >> No, I was just want to make a comment. I know in the beginning we were talking about, you know, applying for an application to become a CLG. That was one of the um um things that we can pro we can do the
list. I guess just for clarity. So we we just didn't have we weren't a CLG to be able to take that list and actually start the process. But I did agree that we did talk about at least compiling that list so that when we did come um
you know get that status that we'll be able to already have had those items you know some idea of some buildings that we would recommend. So I do agree with that. >> That's a That's a very important point. Thank you
for bringing it up. >> So, I I suggest in the coming month that we all uh create a list and when we meet next uh um discuss it and discuss it and then
>> do we have any kind of criteria or guidelines >> guidelines? >> Do we have a criteria? There there there should I think there is and that was part of becoming that CG
you know that there is certain that those buildings would have to meet a certain criteria. So we we kind of reviewed what it took to become a CLG and what you know the process would be but we couldn't do anything with it because we didn't have status
>> at the time. Um, so I would I guess my original question was are we ask are we asking us to just create a list of buildings that we thought would be worth preserving and then once we could come once we reach that status then whatever
that criteria is that we would be able to then look at that list to go by in order to determine if those buildings would fit that criteria. I think it may be more efficient if we get the uh listed and then use that as a
guideline. Derek, is that >> is that >> Yeah. So, I was going to update you all too. The the update on the National Register District. We had a meeting with DOSS grants. So, it was a panel a while back. Um I was just reading here some of the background on that. Um tell them what to do with what DOSS grants is. I'm
sorry. They don't know what DOSS grants is. >> Sorry. That is the portal that we use for our grants says through the state. Um, however, Mr. Paul Weaver could not sit on the meeting. He gave me a list of items to discuss with them. There was only a few questions that they had, but this panel goes over our request. They
grade that request. They look at what we're trying to accomplish. They grade that. That is what is in your pamphlet. If you go to um your file, it's in there. It looks like like this right here. It is the application details and
panelist scores. We did score high enough. Now, if the money is released, that is the $50,000 match grant, small match grant. That is going to be where they're going to come in and the main purpose of updating the Crescent City District is to adjust the boundaries to include more recently
constructed buildings and exclude areas where buildings have been demoed. Um, another is to update the period of significance from 1945 to 1975. It would probably fall in if you all do accomplish looking at some of these buildings and creating a list, be able
to give that to the people that are putting this report together at that time and do this update. It can all work cohesively at the same time. >> Um, but that that is something just if you look at the grade cards out of the 30 some odd municipalities we scored
around I believe 15 16 somewhere around there. our score was significantly high and uh they did seem to lean towards that if the money was released we're going to be getting that grant >> and we should find that out sometime in the in the late spring to early summer. >> Okay.
>> Okay. >> So, in the meanwhile in the meanwhile you'll be able to send us the list to the guide guide list >> educate educate ourselves on the process. >> Okay. >> Absolutely.
>> Okay. All right. Thank you. Um, we just wanted to clarify all of this so everybody out there will understand and um, so we all on the same page. >> Came up to make a comment. Angel 4 service society board. Obviously there's
a a lot of interest been generated in that crescent city from a service standpoint for the past five years. love the idea of the markers. I would just speak to that and as I'm waiting to speak I'm just some of the comments you guys were making was very much what I
was going to talk about that's good the whole floor heard it in doing some of the historical markers I was just thinking about that a lot because you look at all the structures especially residential a lot of buildings here
overundred years old and I was thinking that would be like the weather tour of homes Well, we give you tour markers from an educational standpoint when people come into this beautiful town and we can take
them around to all of the markers and you have the little codes that they can scan and then they can go back at home to their hotels or whatever and review this in detail and share with their neighbors and have them come the next year, etc. So, that's the point that I
was going to make and I think you brought that up Kim. Uh but the historic aspect of it might not just businesses. I think we have much more homes that we realize doesn't have to be on this side of us
all the way back over Huntington Road and all those places have beautiful structures. For example, the one on um it's down street right outside that junction there. They call it the the
empire. I think it's your relative's home. >> The um the temple. >> The temple outside. Yes. >> Yeah. That's a perfect example. And maybe at some point we can have it so they can have a tour indoors, not just
to see the extern. So those are the comments that I wanted to make. Great job everyone. I'm back alive again. I'm jumping in. call. Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. If I can add to that, um I wanted to just read you a piece of um
the update that I had in correspondence with Mr. Weaver um to add to the two items that I told you. So in his notes, it says that since 1996, 21 contributing buildings within the Crescent City Historic District have been demolished. Based on the established period and
boundaries, the current ratio of contributing to non-contributing is 58% contributing to 42% non-contributing. With an evaluation period of significance and boundary, the percentage of contributing contributing buildings could increase by including
properties of the recent past green uh other contemporary buildings outside the current boundary. It will involve updating the boundaries of the national district area where buildings have been demoed particularly on the margins of the district such as the uh such as in the case of the uh the line house
formerly located at 209 South Prospect Street. Conversely, the boundaries could be expanded to the north and to the south to recognize more than 50 buildings constructed in the mid to postwar era uh of the city's development. Doing so would collectively present the contributions of current
residents, families, and city's resilience expressed through development patterns of this period. The two most important of these are the middle uh the Miller Middle School complex and the Crescent City Waterworks. Those are on here to be added and of significance in
this next round of of match that we're looking at doing to update this register. >> May I add something? >> Absolutely. >> Sorry. keep coming up here. Um it's I kind of live and breathe this stuff though. Um the they're talking about
making a list of properties. Basically, you don't need to do that. The survey did that. That's what Paul's Paul Weaver's job was. You have that >> 300page book and it's online. It's a PDF. It's really great. And if you go to the Futland Peninsula Historical
Society's website, fphistory.com, you will see right on the front page there's a little button that says Crescent City survey update. And I know because I put it there. So if you go in there, it'll show you where you can download the entire uh PDF as one, but it also breaks it down into several different um maps and lists. And one of
those I did towards the bottom is a list of the structures that were actually surveyed. And all of those structures were ones that were built before 1975. um and have historical value. Now, your your job might be to evaluate which ones are most important and which ones are
maybe at risk of of um peril, but you don't have to worry about making a list. The list is made. So, you just need that's that was what we paid $50,000 to do and was to go do that. Um and so there and even all all the buildings that were in the historic district, the
National Register District previously, he they went and visited each one of those and updated them. So that's why they they saw like they they evaluated over 350 structures. So it was like the 212 from the original district plus additional 100 or so that were in the
period after 1945 to 1975. So I would think you probably want to start with the oldest ones first. But um but your list is there. You just have to to to go through that. And um the one I will make one note I think in the the list of it's kind of weird to see the list because it goes by streets because I don't know I
don't know how you would actually what other way would be to list the properties but it has the streets and at one point there's about eight or nine that say South Prospect Avenue which as we know is not a thing. So it's supposed to be South Prospect Street and then there's a few more that say South Prospect Street. I think uh Jenny um um
fixed some of those when I was doing that part. I I wrote to her about that. Besides that, the list is there and actually the list is a lot better than the first survey in 1995 because on that I found going through all the stuff that we've done with this place matters and the website and stuff like that that a lot of the addresses were really
dominant. I mean like completely blocks off. So um obviously technology has changed a lot since 1995. So they did a much better job on this list and it's much more accurate except for self. But but that's your list. So that that that makes it a lot easier. Um, but I think
you guys you might want to go and see and do some sort of ranking of the most critically critical needs or the most imperiled. Um, and that would just require some some groundwork and some, you know, consultation among you guys and maybe then we can get some attention
to those. Um, because once they're gone, they're gone. That history is always lost. You can't replace it. You can't rebuild it. You can't uh you can't make it whole again. So, thank you. And thank you for your important closing remarks.
>> And also um you just saved us a lot of work. >> Yes. >> Uh and we we thank you for that. Uh so uh Madam Chair, I I recommend that we um we um we each look through the survey
and um and perhaps get a list of 10 or 20 of the most important >> and move from there. >> What was um what was the um fpistory.com? F as in Frank P as in peninsula or Fland Peninsula
Flandhistory.com that's the easiest way to download. >> Thank youelcome. >> Yes. >> First of the year. >> Okay. I'm good. Okay, Mr. >> Thank you. Good evening. Danny Miller,
1400 Sunset Drive, Winter Park, Florida, the make no mistake about Crystal City Boy. Um, just to add to the commentary on uh all of the wonderful candidates out there. Um, perhaps in conversations
with Mr. Weaver uh might inquire if there's some ranking or scoring protocol that has been used elsewhere. I think certainly that must exist and by virtue of the wonderful surveys just complete
it. Uh it would perhaps he could help in scoring uh what are perhaps the most important candidates for preservation. We have so many uh opportunities. Sure, some are perhaps threatened to become a bit
darling. We have some that are particularly important from a civic and social standpoint. Uh there's civil rights considerations that uh many opportunities for recognition there. So if there's some kind of protocol,
scoring protocol that can be applied, I think it might help get us down the road in an objective kind of way. Sir. >> Yes. Thank you. >> Yes. >> Okay. We'll move on to our next item of
business, inventory of condemned properties. So, in in prior meetings, it's been over a year or more, um we we if there was a building that was condemned and threatened to uh be
torn down, we were given notice of it and there was one on South Prospect, um if you remember that we were notified of and and over time um that dropped from our reporting and I I suggest that
we bring it back. And I'll give you an example. So about a year or so ago, we just talked about the uh the Church of the Holy Comforter. Over on the back side of uh of Lake Stella, there was a beautiful um Gothic
home and behind it a wonderful barn. And um one day it was gone. And that that shouldn't happen. There should be some review before
something is torn down. In this case, it wasn't condemned, but we lost our architectural historic jewel here in our community. And I think that um as as historical preservation shepherds, it's
our responsibility to to watch out for these important structures. And it also ties in uh with city codes. And so now is the time to to to
put some meat into the codes and um recognize the responsibilities of this this board. So that's my point. So maybe we need to come up with a way
that we can identify those buildings once we get the listing over so and um come up with some type of creative idea. So people will be able to identify those buildings before they decide to um and
we can notify the owners or if someone purchased that property, they are aware um that there's a process and they can't tear. When it seems like last year we were shocked by some building that was
torn down without our knowledge, it was pointed out that the county issues those uh demolition permits and unless we put a process in place that they have to notify us,
>> it we have no control over it. Uh how can we do that, Derek? Well, let's let's let's uh let me comment on that. Uh in this regard, there's a lot of communities do it within their their organization.
We have contracted with the county to do it is my understanding. So um for us to request or to require them to notify us of a demolition uh for
structure uh should be multiple or if a structure uh has deemed to be condemned. So um um it's not it's it's it's typical to ask for such a thing. Now, the county
may say that may be complicated, but it really shouldn't be. >> We usually get a report after the fact on permits for the month, and it runs on I usually get the report for permits pulled from the county on the third of the month. So, December 3rd, I got
November's numbers, so I'm always it's always behind. Um, >> but they were already issued. >> They were already issued. I don't get anything ahead of time. However, they must get a request >> for permitting. >> Correct. >> And so that would be the ideal time for
for us to be notified. >> Correct. >> And I I'll have to tell you that at heart I'm I'm for, you know, um preservation and not demolition. However, I in my 50 years of
preservation and restoration, um there are some cases where you you a structure simply can't be saved and for many reasons it needs to come down. There are also uh by having this review
opportunity, it provides us with the with the uh giving thoughts. Well, uh, instead of tearing it down, maybe somebody would like to buy the structure and move it onto their property adjoining. I mean, that's not uncommon,
for instance, but at least it starts the conversation um of a a possible the best solution. >> Can I add something to that? >> Yes, please. in the historic preservation ordinance draft. Um, that's
one of your jobs as the historic preservation board. Like I said, the uh certificates of appropriateness, the COAs, as well as the demolition program. And there just needs to be a process put in place once we pass that ordinance so that the building department knows these
certain properties which we obviously have a list of now um that they have to contact us and and actually I do know part of the process at the building department if you go to if you go to apply for a demolition permit they take your information and then they send it down here to us or they send it to Ze
Cohen. I'm not sure if it comes to city hall or it comes to Ze Cohen and then they sign off on it and send it back to LA and then they issue it. So, in the case of the property across the street or the for property across the street from your house there, um the the what was called the boarding house there,
that obviously was a case of one that did need to come down. I don't think there was any other option, but the fact is that it was someone someone applied for a permit on Tuesday, paid $80, and on Thursday the bulldozer was there tearing it down, that was this that was a contributing structure to National
Historical Sure. And that's awful because not not all of them are in that shape, but obviously it was uh and that it's just an empty lot there and all of those memories are gone and everything that happened in that house is no longer there. Um so this is something that I talked to our former city manager about.
Um and this is something that that they're I think need you need to look into because there is there is a process there is a you know uh apply they check with us and then the work goes back to plat and they issue a permit. So in the
case of if it's a historic building it should come down here and then should say nope you got to go through the historic preservation board and then we you get scheduled for a meeting and you have a hearing and they come and present their case to you. In the case of the, you know, the boarding house, I think it
would be very, you guys would definitely probably say, well, no, it's you got to get it's got to go. It was a safety hazard. It was condemned. It was dangerous for homeless people living in it, and it was a fire trap. And I don't think there was any way to say that without spend way more money than it was ever going to be worth. But that is that
would be your determination at that point to whether to issue the term permit or not or and you in this in the new historic preservation ordinance you have the ability to issue a stay up to 180 days to determine if there are other options. Um and that's a very important
part of this ordinance so that there is time to look for options and to evaluate and to talk about it like the reason I became a city commissioner the reason became I became act was got active with the historical society was I came to this this meeting our city commission
meeting when they were talking about doing the lodge and basically they were ready to tear down and they were going to have someone come and salvage the wood from it and do arsite test and then tear down and I said what that's not that's a little hasty. And so I was here and shared my feelings and
met some of those people from FPHS and um eventually got back involved with everything. But um and that building is saved and has a lot of history and has a lot of importance to this community as as all of us know and I you know we're on the way to hopefully you know preserving it because it is an important
part of this community. So, you know, that's what's going to be important for you guys to do is to to hear those uh demolition applications and then make a determination on whether they can tear it down or not. And so, we just need to and obviously ordinance has to be uh
adopted, but you might want to talk to the building department about how that is because it happens. We're not the only people that the Pton County Building Department does work for. Sure. Um they and and whether it's in if whether it's in unincorporated area or not, there are still rules that it's got
to go by somebody. So it's just they're a contractor. They're doing what we tell them to do, especially if there's a woman that's requiring it. So it just needs to be done. So >> I promise I won't talk anymore.
>> Don't make promises. >> That is something that I'll take care of. I have notes here out to the county and also our planning and zoning director. >> Okay. >> I have a question for Dan. You mentioned property in the south end. >> It was it was uh house.
>> Yeah, it was near your house to the south. >> That has been going through tornado turmoil. It's been bought and sold three times and right now they're in the process of reconstructing it.
The reason they're doing that is if they tore down the square foot of the property isn't sufficient for them to get a building permanent, >> but they're replacing the wood foundations. Anyhow, this has been going on for three years.
>> Yes, I was going to say it. And how long can something like let this go on? I asked the county. They said, "Well, as long as they have aable permit, >> active permit, >> but there's a question I keep asking
everybody in regards to that property. The septic system on the property, that was the um servants's house for the other big house that's right on the lake." And it from what I know from talking to
Jeff and Joe who own the big property that that small house used their septic tank. In other words, the small servant house and the larger property were all connected in one septic tank. As it stands now, the house is up for sale for
1.2 million. And I don't know, you know, there's going to be an issue because they can't put us a drain field on the property where they're restoring the house. Last time I spoke to someone that said,
"Well, we're just going to connect to the sewer." There is no sewer to connect to. Well, >> it seems like there's a lot of stuff up in here, but they they keep chugging along. You know, they work on it two or three days a week and then they don't work on it for 3 weeks and you see
another crew out there working. >> It just seems that that's >> Well, my understanding of course is I assume that up on on South Prospect there is a wasteline. >> Oh, there isn't.
>> No, it stops at uh Jason, the fire chief. stops at his house. I'm I'm the last person. It stops at his house and then my lot starts and I'm on a septic system. So all the lots south of me have septic.
>> Well, theoretically they could hook up to city waste. >> Well, >> however, the expense to bring it to their home would be >> Well, I spoke to the last Charles who's the city manager, >> right? He says that'll never happen.
>> Well, I think that's logic because of the >> it is expensive. >> So, if they can't hook up sewer and they don't have enough property put to put a drain field in. >> Well, and in fact, if their septic is
not a is on a neighboring property, um that's an interesting problem, >> but not ours. Yes. >> Hi, my name is Tim Jefferson. I'm the new executive director of the Crescent City Downtown Partnership. Right over
here, we have a headquarters. I moved up here, please. >> Oh, sorry. Palaca, Florida. >> The physical address. >> Uh 2011 Elizabeth Lane.
Uh I'm on the historical review board in PALA and have been for about two and a half years and so I heard some of the things earlier before I had to run out. Um we have been getting a lot of after
the fact applications where they have already taken the wood siding off and put Hardy board on or change the windows. They're modern Lowe's looking windows, not historically appropriate. And so we we've been having
difficulty uh when we we basically say you're declined. Your application is declined. And their process is they can go to the commission and submit that application.
And normally the commission then pushes it back to us because you know we're not politically elected. Uh so that's a real problem trying to to to wrestle with that. And most recently we had somebody
take out their French doors, no sliding doors to put in French doors and he was okay with that. So, you never know. If you ask a homeowner once they get in front of you, maybe they'll do it, but it's it's there's not
many there's not much teeth to it. So, uh, one property he stopped construction and it's been nothing on this beautiful old house for a year. He lives out of the state and he says, "I'll just I just won't do anything with it then. I'll just leave
it as is. There's lumber on the porch and everything. but he had put things that were not appropriate at all and he he didn't even get permits from the county. So, there's some real challenges there. But, it's about the tea and I think that that's what we were talking
about earlier. Um, of course, code enforcement can let me a fine. U, but you got to get to that point. >> Good luck. >> Thank you for sharing. >> Thank you.
>> A lot of good luck. Well, that's not our problem. Okay, we will um continue to Miller Middle School update. So, um I first want to inform everyone that
the um the BRC uh as I think you probably know um under the city was uh dissolved by the commission um late last spring, early summer. And so um since
then um the BRC 2.0 has evolved independent from the city but a group and we've had one board meeting one meeting and we're having another one tomorrow. Um
and um so what I'm happy to report is that uh we are coordinating a meeting with the Putnham uh County Commission and the Putnham School uh district
to get these two important um u groups together to uh air the possibility of perhaps the county uh taking over the school. We've had uh conversations with the
county and their intent to their uh some of their people have expressed interest and a need. Uh so um that's where we are now. We've been trying to schedule a date and it appears
that the date now will be in March and as as we develop I uh will certainly let you all know. >> Thank you. >> All right. Okay. Sound good. Um, our next item of
business is the historical district survey update. >> We discussed those items already. >> Okay. >> Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. >> Come, please writing and looking down.
>> What I what I didn't realize that and I this this three-page summary is is excellent. Um and I suggest you start with that uh prior to reading the reports.
Um but um one important um statement is that during the civil rights era it was the first se desegregated school and first school that integrated facility in 1966 when Mrs. Anonard Bernie came to
the school. Um, this summary also points out many other important historical u reasons uh why the uh another killer middle school is so important to our
community. Uh, as we all talk to uh our fellow uh u residents um especially those that attended school there, there's a strong bond. there's a strong family bond and um as the
original BRC as we stated in the very beginning we are not out to create a huge burden >> financial burden on acquiring school just the opposite our mission was and
still is to do it uh with um with the the best possible um financial results which are the lowest. >> So thank you again. Uh just a couple of comments on
my offer. Uh I remember very well uh Mrs. Bernie. I was uh in fourth grade and uh she came over as the librarian
and I don't know about y'all but uh as a 10year-old I wasn't aware of a whole lot but there was something about Mrs. Bur and uh that that stays with me to this day.
Uh she she was truly a special lady. Her husband Dr. Harry Bernie some of you all may have known uh worked very closely uh with my father George Jr. who was
chairman of school board uh to bring about desegregation in uh schools in Leman County. This was the first school to do it. And um some of you all knew my dad, some
of you didn't. He was man of great accomplishment, a self-made man. And he told me many times that his single proudest accomplishment in life was to accomplish the segregation of this school system without a court order
saying you're going to do it whether you like it or not. And this community that John spoke to so eloquently >> made it happen. And I don't remember any problem. You know, kids kids don't have a problem with kids,
but uh school's really important uh uh on a deeply emotional level. I'd like to draw your attention to something that really jumped out at me from the report from Mr. Weaver.
We said, "Seldom has the survey team encountered a historic properties important to the future of the community as the Miller Middle School complex." Uh I won't pop up on my soap box which I guess I become noted for about that
school but uh as you're considering what the priorities are for this community I would suggest to you that what that school could become for historic preservation being
repurposed uh for adaptive reuse essentially continued and the use that has been for 125 years as a as a public facility. What it could become is
perhaps the most important thing that anyone in this community will consider or undertake in a century. I truly believe that it is that important. So the groundwork that you're laying tonight uh for sport preservation
and which is really just the part of all of us remembering where we come from uh that is is truly important and very very impactful for our children, our grandchildren on and
on and on for 100 years. So, uh, thank you for >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Can I add something to that? >> Yes. >> All right. >> John again. Um,
why was the school named after George? Well, he just explained it, but he had a calm way of dealing with things. And I don't know of another person that
could have taken through this era of integration so gracefully as George Miller Jr. and he had the economic sense to get this school and the inter school
funded by the state of Florida. So we got two schools because of George Ber Jr. paid for by the state of law chose not to do that.
How many years later? 30 years later, they had to pass a bond issue to build that high school. But George Miller Jr. took us through this gracefully. And that's the reason the school meant
to him. And is that important? I think it's important. It's part of our history and it's a great part of our history because we did something right as a community.
>> Thank you. >> And I was fortunate to attend all of all of these schools. So that um that's important to me. So they both all of them have a very very rich history that
we all can be proud of. I am proud and I know you all are proud as well. So, um we have done a great things in South Button County and when that date comes in March, we need to pack the county
commission room with citizens from South Plutum and all over the county for this great purpose. All right. Our next item is the new moon lodge update. All right. >> I just want to confirm with the board.
So, we we have um located our continuing services contract with uh Mr. Gonzalez with RG Architects. Um they are on this project and working with us. We've confirmed a new scope of work and programming for the project since we're
not going to be proceeding with the initial conceptual design that was provided and presented by RG um on the report dated on June 30th, 2024. The reason being is just because this grant we only have $50,000. That's what we have for schematics for design, MEP
plans, uh things of that nature. With the design that they originally had and presented, we would be well over $100,000. So um I worked with uh with Ricardo and um the summary of work that we revised that scope to be is for ADA
accessibility on the first floor only design of an exterior ADA ramp ADA compliant restroom and accessible circulation within the existing building. um a structural stabilization reconstruction plan in coordination with the structural engineer for
stabilization of uh deteriorated framing floor systems, roof structure, porches and and uh any required reconstruction to meet current standards. Another is the historic building envelope and preservation. This architectural detailing for repairing, replacing
deteriorated historic elements such as sighting, windows, doors, sopets and fascia while maintaining historic character. And the last is the MEP uh coordination of ME MEP systems required uh and proposed mini splits. MEP is mechanical, electrical, plumbing. Um so
right now we have confirmed that latest revised scope. They're moving forward to preparing a proposal uh that's going to be going over to the state in conjunction with their continuing services contract so I can get approval to move forward and contract them for that service. and we are looking forward
to working with them for the second uh goround with the new >> Okay, thank you. >> Right. Um I realize I skipped one, so I've got to go back to historic district
survey update. >> Oh, no. We got We skipped around. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah. But I would like to bring up uh an item that we should talk about and that's the uh Union Bethl project.
>> You want to talk about that? >> Yes, please. It's one of, of course, it's one of our historic churches >> and um >> Angel 404 Lake Street.
Unfortile because we got involved about eight to nine years ago under the direction of our city manager Patrick Kennedy who took an interest along with myself John
Numo and Miss Kate Hamilton. At that time we got to the point whereby we had recognized some Indians etc. Uh Mr. the new bowl went up to Scagg Savan
School of Art and Design on our behalf and he met their architect there. So to that uh things went to Turby because Mr. uh Kennedy uh left the city
manager. Then along comes the pandemic and so many of us going through illness in the world. However, we started to jump start that program approximately two years
and under the direction of two different uh pastors there because they change out every two years that's why I'm constantly there. So we are now working with a pastor um and she's come on board gradually
with us for the concept that I did. So we have already secured three different engineers um to raptor and two engineers and the purpose in the delay is that it was
difficult to get um people come to Crescent City small town us inspectors who've been out there they've done a detailed inspection and we got a final report from a qualified
uh termite control inspector right before that deal about 6 weeks ago. Thus, that held it up a little bit. But we're moving forward now as I spoke to our city manager this evening that I'll
be uh submitting to him proposal for all three candidates even though we know who we would like because the experts and you guys met great goals the architects that working with us. So we're ready now to proceed once hopefully we get
approval to get rid of these termites. Now once the termites are gone, we've already aligned with different uh contractors. We have one structural engineer. He's crawled underneath the house and taking pictures and all that
sort of thing. So we are poised now to move to the next step once hopefully we get the approval once you get information submitted to your good guys and approved to get those termites out of that building and put it in such a
manner so they don't come back anytime soon. I hope then we can move to the next phase of financing which is a large portion and we haven't gotten a total price on that yet because we don't have the free packages come in because we
going through terite control. So that's where we are with that now. I think we moving forward now more so than being stuck in before. So that's our update. I'm sure after we've met with the city manager, we can come back to you guys with a more
concise report. >> Any questions? >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Yes. >> Any questions? >> Thank you. >> Okay. All right. We've made it to new
business. >> Do we have any new business? So, okay, there's new business. Now, we will open it up for any public comments if there's any. Um, I think I heard that the last
meeting that uh you had met as historic preservation board was uh in April. Uh just tickled pink uh at the meeting tonight and and what appears to have been accomplished. And uh I'd just like
to encourage you going forward perhaps to meet on a quarterly basis. there's there's a lot there's a lot of work to be done and things just kind of naturally uh kind of lose momentum that
we don't don't keep after them. So, thank you. >> Thank you. >> All right. If there's nothing else, anybody else comments? >> I just wanted to thank our audience for coming tonight. Yes.
>> Um it it means a great deal to us and especially the many fine comments, thoughts and ideas shared with us. It uh it certainly helps us do our job um much better to hear from the public and I
encourage you to uh attend our meetings in the future and uh and and bring your friends. >> Okay. pumps are. Go ahead. >> Speed MC 335. What's going on with the I keep hearing that the little thrift store by how the memorial is going to be
torn down. >> Uh if I can if I can address that at this point there are no plans at all for that little building. >> Okay. Uh we just uh I'm a member of Pal Memorial and uh we have right at this
point we have no plans at all for the for what was the thrift shop. We could just it's just uh it's currently not viable to be used as a thrift shop. So >> okay, >> that's the unfortunate part and we're looking at in the future opening up a
thrift shop again, but we're not exactly sure what that looks like. >> Okay. Yeah, I was just wondering we've got tight budgets like everybody does. Yeah. So, we're we're we're a little shortfall on Skip and I keep saying it's a historical building. It was an office
for citrus production, >> right? >> As far as I know, we have no plans at this point at all. >> Okay. >> So, thank you. >> Can I get clarification? You don't have any plans to use them. You don't have plans to demolish. >> We have no plans at all
>> because we we we've tossed that around as you know one of the million ideas that you know we could do with it. But I'll create that. It is the only extent building that um is connected to the citrus business in this in this town in
this area which used to be a huge thing and it's the only one left. So that would be a great boss and I mean but I understand you know that actually what this board is for hopefully that that you know you come to get permission to do that and and hopefully
we can cover some options but I'm glad to hear that. Thank you. >> But it is it is very important. So and I want to thank all of you guys for being here. I know people say I mean I get paid um not a lot but I get paid it works out to like a 25 cents an hour
I think but um you guys don't and that means a lot and the fact that you guys are willing to be here and willing to just get involved and care means a lot and that means a lot to me and I appreciate it. So I appreciate your work and you guys are doing a great job and I'm glad to see this moving forward and I'm glad to see such a great audience.
So thank you guys. >> Thank you. >> I will not say anything else. I swear. Yeah. >> Okay. If there's nothing else, the um historical preservation December 18th meeting is adjourned.