--------- here soon. workshop. Commissioner Moore ask you please. Please stand if you're able. Let's bow our heads. Dear heavenly father, once again, we want to thank you for allowing us to come together. We
thank you for you woke us up this morning, closing our right mind. We give you praise for that on today. And we ask that you be with us today as we make decisions. Help us to make those correct decisions. Help us to agree and disagree with unity and love. And Father God, we ask that you bless all of those that are
not here today who desire to be here. Give them a chance once again. God, we ask that you bless everyone that is going to attend us today. Give us courage and understanding to be able to do thy will. We forever praise your name. All these blessings we ask now in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. The pledge of allegiance. I pledge
algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for its one indivisible and all.
Thank you. Today's date is the July 21st, 2025. We're starting off with a workshop. If we can have a roll call, Madam Cler, if you would. Commissioner Bergen
here. Commissioner Moore here. Commissioner Lori present. Commissioner Devito present. Mayor Myers present. City Manager Derek Martin here. We have Christina.
Oh, I'm sorry. Assistant city manager Christina Marie. Okay. And Steve is still making a couple of copies. Um some last minute copies he's trying to get to us. So with that, um let's go ahead and get started. So
this workshop today is to talk about a proposed budget and where we're going to be on our knowledge. Um because we have to set the maximums before the August 4th deadline. So Derek, are you
ready to Sure. Where would you like to start? Top line. We can go bottom line. That may be a little faster. Um of course we've gone through the budget each individual line
item. Um we have gone in and discussed um in detail um with each one of the division uh department directors. We have cut a lot out of this budget for this year. Um we've had a couple issues on and off uh with the county with some of the spreadsheets and some of the
calculations and we worked through some of those problems uh and issues. Um, as you can see, uh, based on the county, um, spreadsheet, the, um, the current abilum tax, um, that we're budgeting this year is1,99,442.
That is at at an 8.7164%. I believe the roll back rate and and we also have some other spreadsheets coming. Roll back rate was 8.4. What was the back last year? We were 8.44, but they hit the roll back rate this year. Correct.
There is a different percentage. Correct. For in order to hit that roll back rate and um that's what he should be bringing that spreadsheet so that they can see which is the 8.7 um comes out the 8.7
8.7164. So what is 8.7164? What is that? Right. That's our that is that is based on this year's um 420 deal 420
that was provided from the county. Okay. I have can I ask a question? Sure. So, where are you getting the figures for our ad for our adorn tax and how does
that compare to 2025 our actuals? Um, is it on this? It is not on that. So, what you have in front of you right now is the actual annual budget in long form. Steve is printing those out and he is coming on
his way with the spreadsheet and to show you the deltas, the differences between this year and 2025 and how we came up with the 8.7164 with the DR 420. We had a couple last minute changes and I apologize, but he's he's working through that and he's going to bring those
spreadsheets for you. Okay. M I don't understand. Why is our village going up? Well, the the um the explanation that we have been given
of course is and it does fall on us. So all in all based on what um the property appraiser has told us that this year while we've had it a difference in the past, a higher in the past, this year it's a 1.44%
increase in valuation. Um we did it it appears well they haven't confirmed that the FPL back in 20123 FPL um overestimated over
on their TPPs on their TPPs which is their tangible personal properties. Okay. Okay. So they overestimated they overpaid. Um, last year uh they came back to the county and said that they had done that resubmitted, but rather than the county
giving them a all-in-one refund, they spread it out. Last year, it looks like there was some higher valuations that came in from the county on properties. Um, so it wasn't felt. So, it really wasn't brought to
anybody's attention that this happened this year. However, um is not the case. Yeah, this year compared to last year was 16.08 on real property. Um this year has been reduced down to 6.25.
Uh and and you also had a 16 negative 16.78 uh on reduction on tangible property tax this year. And the year before you had it at uh 27.31 and that's the two-year drop that the mayor is talking about.
Instead of giving us one flat time fee, they spread it out as a courtesy. So, um all in all, after I guess looking at all of this, um
this year is going to be a bare bones. Yes, it is. It is going to be a bare bones. Um, Steve should be bringing everyone the um, is he bringing the TR420s? He has the copies of those because I don't have a current one either. So,
everybody has that. So, they know what they're all just, you know, based on that. I just have a quick question. How is this affecting the county overall? They're wait, they're basically instead of a 6% increase in valuation, they're
basically at like 05%. No, I um they're at two I think they're now at they now at 2%. They had they had that came in. They were at flat. They were flat. There were some new calculations that did come in. They're at 2.11%.
Yeah, they're at 2.11% but we're at 1.44%. Correct. Um and and the school district as well. It's it's affected the school district, but with the school district, it's my understanding
that the state can help supplement some of that some of that shortfall. Um, and so hopefully they'll be looking to the state for that. But, um, we don't have that. We don't have that luxury here. We've got to find it within our own budgets. So, as we start to go through
these budgets, um, we're going to have to really cut back. And I believe Derek and Derek, you and Steve have given us a a balanced budget. Correct. We have. Okay. Yes, ma'am.
And when Steve gets here, can you find out? I know he's doing CRA, but if he's if he's on his way, do you want me to go get him? He'll be on his way then. Mayor, somehow I'm still missing the part in the middle. So FPNL's
overpayment, how is that affecting our adorum tax valuation because TPV goes into our adorum tax valuation? So it's way it's way down. So it's way down in there. We our valuation of real property has gone up like you know
we're at six once our property values gone up. you typically 6.25. So, typically, and we all know this, that typically on on homesteaded properties, but let me let me just let me finish my
my thinking one one person at a time here, guys. Um, so typically by Florida statute on homesteaded properties, the the county can go up that 3% on a homesteaded property on our valuation. Okay. on non-homesteaded commercial
properties, they have a 10% that they can go up. Um, so typically you would have at least that 3% increase. Okay. In our valuation this year, we're at 6 25
25 6.25% increase, but our TPP is downg. And so all in all, so that takes away from our um that's going to take away from our real property.
Can I interrupt you? When you're saying those numbers, can you say percent? Because I didn't even realize you guys are talking about percentages right now. So you need to say percent so that everyone understands because it's down 6%. Okay. I would think everybody Okay, that's fine. Thank you. I'll I'll do
that. Um so anyway, so while we're up in our valuation 625% um our TPP is taking a big hit. Um and so those two numbers combined are
how they get our um our um our valuation. This is my first time going through this with you all. I know that we went through each individual line item. um with the directors. Um I don't know how this um committee or I'm sorry this
commission wants to go through these items specific. If there are questions, if you want to start from the top and go through each one, I can tell you that um what Steve and I did was we looked at the adopted budget for 2025 and we also looked at what our actuals were um uh
through the uh the amended budget and then our year-to-ate actuals and we did um uh prorate some of those in a projection for 2025. Now, if the number based on what it was was higher or lower, we've tended to go with a lower
number. um and try to match what we originally had um for uh the amended budget um and what was what was on on on on the paper for last year. So again, it
is very bare bones um trying to make sure that we facilitate the needs of the city um for the residents. Uh but again, being where we are with the numbers, it's very very tight. And to clarify on this spreadsheet, the
yellow column, the dollar increase decrease is from the budgeted amount for 2026 and the amended budget. It would be 2025. So yeah, it's a difference between the 2025 adopted budget.
Amended budget. We never amended our budget in 2025. Um, did we did not do a budget adjustment? supposed to. We never did. We never did. We never Right. So, this is off of the adop the
uh adopted budget. We took the money, the rollover money that they said we had and we added it in and we did add it in there. So, it would be that it could be that and put it into a miscellaneous, but we never had an actual amendment in January.
The end of the school year. Well, the numbers are the same on here. It looks like an amendment. I don't know why we have a minute. So, okay. So, some of this is corrected. Um, we we had to adopt something in order to
spend the rollover. We did. We took that in, but we did not. I mean, we we brought that in and put it into the budget. Christina, go ahead. I'm sorry. And I had asked the same question. I believe the reason the amended budget line item in here is is it was a placeholder for what that was
going to be but it never happened. Um so again we just the math is we didn't do the formalities correct. So what we did is we talked about it we agreed to take that monies and put it into the salary dollars and into the um but we never came in and actually did an
ordinance. We kept putting that off. Christina is that correct? Yes ma'am. Okay. This is my question. Yes, we can't spend it unless we do the ordinance. Is that right? So, have we spent the money?
Not the I mean, no, we still have a placeholder. We still have a placeholder. We still have it in a placeholder. They had to put it in miscellaneous. Put it We put it in miscellaneous. Somehow I think to me it seems like a piece of this puzzle is whatever the
rollover funds were identified as and whatever action we took it would be very helpful to have that in front of us. Um certainly preferably at this meeting and if not at this meeting very next time we address the budget.
So, um I have Mayor I have some questions, but probably Steve needs to be here. Um he's on his way. Okay. Well, um I don't know. I guess I went through the last budget. I mean, the
last whatever it is print out of income and expenditures, the one that the end of May. So, and I had identified some questions that I had there. One item that I identified I can see right here on page
one has been um no has been corrected and audited budget last year. Yeah, there's there's a couple items that I don't know there. Anyway, I had some questions based on the May print out of
income and expenditures and some of them go to um an explanation of what we're spending for some pretty significant cost services. Um but I guess could I try to answer the
city manager's question, mayor? He said he doesn't know how we usually do this. Sure. Okay. Thank. Um well, there's a number of ways to go through budget and partly it depends on who's here in the
commission and who's the staff. Um usually it's it's something that we would get a more in advance. um which I know there have been um people have had to be out um
but as well it helps like I see things are in yellow here if they're going up or down um it would be helpful to have an overview of you know an overview of how we're doing on our expenditure and where we're
having to increase and where you folks decided to cut that would be helpful um to me just so we can get a sense of it. And then of course at some point um I mean ideally this is really my fellow
commissioners um ideally the commission would want to um set some priorities. We would want to line this up with our strategic plan kind of thing. Um, so that's just that's just my take on
it. Yeah, typically what you would do um, Derek, is as you go through this and then eventually we probably will end up going through these line by line, right, and determining what needs to what's essential and what's not essential. And
it looks to me like this year is going to be an essential budget and a non-essential we're going to have to set to the side for right now. Okay. um until next year. So that's what we would do. We would have you know the various workshops so that we would have on our general fund our CRA um our
better place and then also on our um enterprise funds. Okay. So we have them all um I would like to add um and thank you for that um commissioner veto. Uh if you look at your spreadsheet there, um the green column is going to be what is
budgeted in 26. Um your over and under will be to the next uh to the right of that in yellow. So if it's in there, you'll see where it says dollar increase or decrease the uh the amount that you were decreasing are going to be in red
and and and in parentheses. Uh anything in black is over what was the from the year prior. So, I got that part. Okay. Yeah, I got that part. But what I'm saying is there's no verbal road map for us that kind of directs us to we're over here,
we're under there. And I have some questions that I um wrote down. Um there are some significant overages from what was budgeted in the existing year expenditures.
Um, I'm not sure what all of them are for. Um, and I have questions about, you know, how how are we why do we have these overages over what was budgeted and how is where are we going to be
lacking next year if we can't fund that? There are just some things in here that are not very clear. Yes, ma'am. In the existing whatever. And um just one item uh that I'm noting and we have not really discussed the budget in a meeting. Um
the oh good this has been changed retirement for former commissioners. That's on page seven. Um we are already at like 92% for the year because we did not budget for the retirement of commissioner banks. So that's only 2/3
of what it needs to be. That's um well there's a different item now. We're at 92% because we're writing checks for 600 a month. That's 200 per commissioner instead of 400. Um, and then I see you have projected for the next year it goes
up to 5,700. I'm not I'm not sure if that's still right. Um, right. I don't know what that three is here. So with Steve, do you have some
some paperwork to pass out? Did you did you by chance bring the the current um I know it doesn't have the millage plugged in there, but did you bring the the DD214? Oh, the 420. The 420 on it. Thank you.
Steve's passing out the spreadsheet that was um created uh provided by the county for DR 420 and our tip as well. One of them shows the millage rate that we are proposing at 8 um 7164. The other is the
previous roll back and showing the mill rate at 8.5914. There you go. And the roll back was at 8.43. But this is this is the document that was used last year. Nice purchase.
talking about this. Yes. is Steve. Okay. So in front of you there is two different u military calculations. The first one um we used 8.594
which was the military two years ago I believe before we use the roll back rate. So what's that showing is that our total taxes at that levy military would be 1,63821. Um you back out the um the the tiff
which would be 184531. So uh adjusted current proceeds would be $8.99 144 and that would be a um $16,000 uh difference over the roll back rate last year 8.43%.
And then so if we calculate that with the proposed uh mill rate of 8.7164 we come up with uh 1 million 999442 as the proposed uh taxes out of the
military tip would be 187 216 and the current year proceeds should be 9126. Now he was showing um what were they showing that in order to get the the the amount that we had last year? What was that? What was that
percentage that he was giving us? the percentage of what we have to get to do to get to get what we had last year would be the 8.7 um 164 164 yes so that's where we would that's where we
would have to be in order to even get where we were last year that's correct so we would be raising the military it would still count as a roll back but correct we would be increasing the level correct to get where we were last year. Yes.
Um, but I don't like that idea. We worked really hard to get it from 8.5.4 to 8.434 mills and I'm not really comfortable raising that. Can we make it work at 8.434? I don't think we want to go back down to
that 84340 last year. Exactly. um taxpayers right now. Well, we still have to operate and be able to provide services. I mean, adequate services. And so, it's um you
know, I mean, I think going into this last year, that was a concern that you know, we were you had to cut. How much did you have to cut out of last year's? It was 80 80,000 I believe. 70 or 80. I know. Just just even more so than what we thought.
Yes. Um so what's the difference between 8 point the the roll back rate and the distance here the 8.7164 which is what you calculated to be the roll back rate and
8.434 434 be $29,000. So $29,000 and we don't raise those taxes. But I think No, I don't think that's
Steve. What he's asking is if we keep the millillage where we did last year. Yes. And so that's what you're saying that would be the difference would be the $21,555 if we kept the millage where we did last year. That's not
counting the million and a half valuations in there because there was a million. No, you don't you don't take you don't take that. You have to back that out. But then you do get the taxes from it. So with that new growth, it's only a difference of $30,000 to
leave taxes at the same rate. It's not like a You don't have to think about it. It says it right here on the sheet. Let's not be Let's not No, I'm just saying they're trying to to figure this out, too. said and I believe we tried to do less than
the the roll back rate last year in the department of revenue um you know they weren't the roll back yeah but we originally we tried to do less than they calculated less than last year we couldn't we had we had to do what we had calculated
it was just talk out you know it's just talks amongst ourselves but we had to go with the 8 we couldn't go below what the the DR420 said our our you know that the calcated roll back rate would be okay. We can always go lower than that, but
but right now, so I think what we need to do right now is we need to probably get into the budget and we need to see if there's some areas in here that we can cut out so that we can start doing some some savings if there's some things under Commissioner Keto. She's got some concerns. I've shared with you some
concerns and going over May's um statement of revenue and expenditures um and to see where we can and and that's where we're going to have to look at what we can what we can back out and be able to live with.
Okay. Um, yes. So, I think Commissioner Lori and I both had the same thought. Um, I could hear him muttering over there. He Okay. Um, on page seven of the budget
that was just put on our desk today on Yeah. page seven where it says retirement for former commissioners. This is not the biggest item in the budget, but it's one that we have to pay and can't cut out as far as I know. Um,
so it's got year-to- date actual for 2025 at 3,800. I don't know if that is correct. Um, might be, but it says projected for 2025.
Wait, budgeted for 2026. I don't I don't I don't understand this. Budgeted 2026. It says 4,800, but yeah, that would be the budget amounting for the retirement. supposed to have three questions right
I'm not very good at math so if I've figured this out correctly I'm very proud um so as of last November when commissioner banks um became retired we had three commissioners um receiving $200 a month correct
and our budget did not allow for that the budget that we set was 4,800 um so We have three retired commissioners. That is now 600 a month that we are writing those checks for. $7,200,
right? So, how can we I don't The green the green column is what we're budgeting. Is that right? That is correct. Yeah. Okay. So, if we have three retired commissioners, I don't see how we can budget 4800.
We can go back and fix that. Right. But that's I mean every it seems like unfortunately u we are very scarce of funds so every dollar counts. Um and I don't know what that comes out to.
So that's $7,200. Okay. So that would be $7,200 at $600 um a month. Right. So you got $7,200, right? So we have to allow for that. So we have to allow for that. I mean our training we went up on our training last
year 15 I think we might even for this year all all the training we might even have to forego all of us having any training next year um if that's what we have to do um again this is going to this is going to be bare bones it's going to be painful but we're going to
have to get through this but she is right we have to make sure that we account for that's not that's not a that's not an option that's not an optional one that we can cut from and we actually did talk about that before this meeting. It was just something we didn't change for the paperwork for this meeting.
Okay. Um the mayor speaking, you said we just have to get through this. Um what how is this going to affect us in subsequent years?
He said this is the last year that we're going that um the property appraiser said this would be the last year for the refund from FPL with those um that it would have an effect on us. Does that mean that it'll start going up?
It'll go back up. It should go back up. It should be normal. It should be a normal. So it'll go up where it is now at a normal rate. It should not depreciation. There's depreciation. McDonald's is going to have depreciation. You know, they're a new
they're a new business that has opened up. Um, so they'll enjoy the depreciation, but the depreciation should somewhat level out a little bit, too. So, there should be no growth. That's true. Um, well, even if there is growth, your TP,
that's typically what you get from your businesses. They're the ones that claim the TPP. Down $7 million this year. Yeah. for last year. So, mayor or city manager, I don't know which question. Has property appraiser
provided anything in writing to the taxing entities and the public? Nope. Um, but how this all came about, I mean, this has been somewhat of a surprise. Um, it's my personal feeling that we should be asking him for that
explanation. Um, I think I certainly would like to have a more clear explanation and I would think property owners might as well. You can ask him to come um present at one of our meetings. That's always an option to ask him to come present at the
meeting or at the workshop. He could come to the August meeting if you would ask him if he could. He'd have to bring Justin with him probably. Um, I know the county, both the county, um, the chairman for the county commission and the chairman for the
school district for the school board, they both asked for a meeting with him on this. Um, and there is a letter out there that he was not able to meet with them. Um, so I don't know if
you can ask him for a written explanation now that it's out there. Um, it, you know, uh, I my understanding is there's not a written agreement, but again, that's, you know, just from what speaking to those in the county, there's not a
written agreement with FPL for that. um you know that that was an agreement that the property appraisals office made with FPL. So right there um in that one you've got $2,400 that you're going to have to add
into that budget um for the city commission on the city commission budget. And we haven't gotten any numbers yet from FMIT for insurance. We have not received anything yet. Um,
at this moment we're using your calculations last year's budget, but we know that's going to go up. Insurance goes up every year. We have not uh actually shot that in 10 years. And we
our property and liability stuff 30 is going to be the best deal. No problem. No, there's no doubt about that. I mean, we can shop it, but that's kind of the reason for the cities if it exists is to selfure each other. I don't think it's going to be any lower if you go to the
commercial market. Um, they do it has been increasing every year 20%. Health insurance that we need to figure out. We're looking at all the above savings that we can do. Currently, we do have a a proposal. We have not received
one, but we've have been in conversations with Brown and Brown who also services multiple municipalities and we have a 25% um cost savings that that they're proposing. They just have not given us the proposal because we haven't received F1s yet.
So we we you know this keeping salaries level there's no raises no increase in cost currently right now. Yes sir. Okay. And that's well today it's 5% they factored in right well that's we've done every year for
the past three years correct and then we did seven and a half% in the middle of this year seven% in the middle of this year and then 5% but we talked about that earlier. So, that's something the commission's going to have to determine this year, and that
happens in agencies, unfortunately. But, we've worked hard to try to get our employees to a a competitive wage. Um, so we could be competing with, you know, the other municipalities. But, um, this year it
might be that that's not, you know, put a moratorum on that. That's going to be up to the commission. Did you Um, Commissioner Dvito, did you want to look at Did you want to continue to look at this or did you want to talk about
your questions from this? And let's clear that up first. Okay. I have some And you said you had had some questions. I did. I had quite a few questions on this as well. So, you Okay. On the on the ex on the existing from Yes. From the May our expenditures,
revenue expenditures from May. Okay. Hold on. And this was in the back of everyone's Oh, are your questions? Did you write it down? Right here. Okay, go ahead. I thought you were saying they were in the back of our
Okay. Um, well, and this is unfortunately this is key to the main budget. said that's what I'll have to be asking about. I don't know that I could find it um in the new version.
Okay. Um first of all, I don't know this is just observation and I don't see it on here. Um okay, that's not in the main version. Um
you have put which positions are funded at which department. Is that right? Okay, that's very helpful. Um, hang on. Okay. in under city hall for the current budget year. This is the May
print out. Um under other professional services, it was budgeted 6,500 and as of the end of May we had expended $87,000
which um that says 372% of the budget that's expended. In other words, almost four times the budget. Um, what it's under city hall and goes workers comp computer other professional services,
right? And it's it's over um by $63,000. I don't know. 63,000 and that's for Michaelart. Michaelart, okay. Was a 1099 vendor. He was a contractor. He worked for the city. So that's where his salary was getting allocated to.
Okay. So that was the that was the interim city manager, correct? Robert. Okay. So, and plus there's also the city manager search expenses in there, too. So, the city manager search expenses went into that line item.
Correct. Okay. So, um where did we pull the money from that we used to pay Mr. Rohart? That's offset by the salaries in the city the city management department. I
think it's over by 73,000 a year was offset by the salary savings but the city managers. Okay. So we didn't have that. Um where
where in the existing budget or the existing printout? Well, I don't see the staff budgets. Um, another question I had was it wasn't clear to me from the May print out that the um, city tiff was
transferred from the city budget to Part: 2
order date July 21st, 2025. Um, we have had some issues with our YouTube and I know we've had some um internet issues as well. So, some of the previous meeting was recorded, some of it was not. Um, I know earlier we were
having some issues as well. That is out of our control and we do apologize for anybody that is watching um from outside this room. Doing the best we can with that. Okay. Um, we've already gone through I think we can carry this
forward. We've had our invocation and our place to the flag. Um, everyone is still present. So, let's go to the first one that we have on our agenda. Um, we need to table this commission. So, if I can get a
motion to table the um setting of the tenative maximum millage rate. I move that we table resolution 254 setting the maximum rate for tax until July 31st. I'll second it.
Okay, we have a proper motion in a second. Do we have any discussion? Um yes, mayor. I have a request. Um I mentioned this to the city manager and the resolution is drafted. There are two different dates for the deadline. So if
um they can get that um corrected before the um okay it needs to be August 4th. It is August 4th and not August 5th. So it is the August 4th. So on the last then now therefore if you would please correct that for the record August it needs to
be August 4th and not August 5th for what resolution. It's it's the text of the resolution. It just the text of the resolution. I think it has to be to do by by no later than August 4th. Right. This is inconsistency, mayor. I
think August 5th was the day last year and so it just didn't get um replaced. Needs to say 2026. Yes. Oh my goodness.
That definitely needs Okay, so we have a proper motion and a second. All in favor, please say I. I. Oppos? Nay. Okay. So, tabled. So, now we're going to go to the blue ribbon committee discussion.
Good afternoon, commissioners. Uh, for the record, I'm Dan Dodge. the chairman of the Blue River Committee and I reside at 218 South Main Street. So today I with you again to request an extension of time for the blue ribbon
committee of 15 months as I explained at our previous meeting. We uh find that's necessary because we still have a great deal of work to do. There are three major objectives uh that we we need to achieve. Uh the
first is to have u move forward with a discussion uh with the uh school district on a letter of understanding of the possible transfer of the uh Miller Middle School
uh to the city um a letter of understanding and to bring such a concept or letter before this commission. Uh the second is uh for uh grant writing. Uh as we know from our
past experience taking a year uh working on grants is is the proper way of doing it. And um and and lastly it's finding partners that uh
will help participate and be part of the uh of the finished product. Um as as you all know there are five buildings there. The city's uh needs can be accommodated
in the administration building number one and primarily the first floor. That gives a great deal of square footage for possibility of other uses uses that um will make it financially viable.
uh uses that um will uh add additional benefits to the city. So that's what we seek. Um and we recognize that doing nothing
that the school board doesn't want to build. They are quite eager to work with us, the city um to uh to do a transfer But that needs to be discussed. And as you remember uh
we brought forward a contract and he let us know at that time that a letter of understanding would be much more appreciated. Uh so that can be that can be achieved by just taking a few
elements out of the long document contract that we first proposed. Um the um the other is that there's great need for the city. We understand that this building um has major structural issues
that need to be addressed. And um and of course the other is is if we do nothing then we have the fear of it just
being a dead space. and deteriorating and that's not going to benefit anyone. So those are my comments uh this morning and I look forward to a discussion with you about
it. Commissioner does anybody have any questions with Mr. Let me also point out too that that the blue ribbon committee meets twice a month. The total time per month that we average
is only an hour and a half. So our meeting really is minimal expense. There are five members plus Commissioner Lori as as an advisor
and we're very fortunate that each one of us bring a separate experience and talent. We work very well independently at our missions and
the the coming the guidelines of um of um not
the sunshine law is easily uh easily uh it says the task for us. It's it's it's not a problem uh at all because we work independently. We we each have an assignment and then the the important of
the meeting of course is to bring the come each of our ideas and what we've discovered together. So and I I want to remind you that we work we exist because of your pleasure.
You control us. So we we need your approval basically for everything. Um and that's we appreciate that. So what's our purpose? Our purpose is to the groundwork for you
to to provide the necessary free hours and leg work to bring the reports to you to make decisions. I'm there for discussion purposes. I would like to make a motion. Can I say something first?
I was going to say usually we make that. Okay. So, um I would like to make a motion um that the city of Crescent City extend the um blue ribbon committee and
their charge um for until the end of fiscal year 2026. Okay, we have a second. I'll second that. Okay, we have a proper motion and a second. Yes, Commissioner apologize.
I guess I probably should just say something. Anyway, um I just want to say um that I've had some taxpayers and little city residents to approach me with this. I just want to give some I want to let you know what they said.
Okay. As far as middle school being renovated, they have no problem. I don't think any of us have a problem with that, but they have a problem with the money. Also, they wanted us to they would like me to address this that um
concerned citizens are very um well they're thinking about um how they have been on hold for that sign call for a long time and I think it's been ever since 2020 22 20 2122 or something like
that but they did not come to the commission for anything. um it's like they been on their own trying to get funds and what they really need is a grant writer. So you all don't have a grant writer. So they really need that person and they want I need to express
that because um they're saying um faithfully um I guess they would need help too. So we're willing to help them. That's another issue. And also I want to say that Middleton Bernie um school will be closing very soon in the next end of the
year or the beginning of the year and that is another um well the Masonic Hall is a historic site and you all probably read beside that and um yes we have history in that too also my grandmother who died when she was 109 years old I
think. Yeah 109 was a member of the um eastern star that went upstairs in that building. So it is um historical but I would like to know before we make this decision um are we willing to also extend um help to these these other
organizations? Okay ma'am can I address that? Yes because I've been on the commission since the new moon lodge issue came up and essentially um it was because of the fruit peninsula historical society and
the late Mr. Jim Stakey who the retired architect that the um need to preserve the New England lodge was brought up. Um the interim city manager at the time had that on a
fasttrack schedule to be torn down. Okay. I made a point as a member of the historical society and somebody um who's very aware of the importance of the New Moon Lodge especially um you know that
New Moon lodge um was very important in the historic African-American part of town which my family lived two and a half blocks from there and my granddaddy used to deliver babies down there including families who lived there. So
very rare. Anyway, um sorry, mayor, I digress. So, uh essentially, um the concerned citizens, the historical society, um I was very concerned about this. Um we took the Newman Lodge, the city did this. We took it off the
demolition list. I believe the mayor was very involved in reaching out to the concerned citizens. They had an interest in this. Um sadly, uh Mr. Red wanted to apply for a grant to restore the Newman lodge, but
um some things happened and the commission didn't do it. If we had applied to the legislature that year as we the commission voted to um then some didn't want to. The state of Florida used ARPA money and funded $60 million
of re of restoration for African-American buildings around the state. We didn't get that because we didn't put the application. So, we have met with concerned citizens. They have talked about their fundraising. What the city has done for the New Moon Lodge is
very significant. We committed ARPA funds for the architectural study of that building prior to the funds that were committed for the Miller Middle School. So, um, and another thing we did was, um, and this was before we took it
off the demolition list, um, we made sure the building was boarded up. Um, we made sure the sheriff's office was aware of it. Uh, I know the mayor has been very involved in organizing concerned citizens for cleanup. But anyway, the city has committed um, the occupants for
architectural study and as well um, before Mr. red left. This commission voted um to apply to the state of Florida for a small matching grant for the money we need to do the architectural plans for that building the construction to do the construction document.
So we are basically underway with that and our budget for the current fiscal year I think the small matching grant is $50,000. we budgeted in this year's budget for the additional $10,000 that would be needed to do those
architectural plans. So, we are on board there. We we have been committed to that. And as well, um I have brought up, you know, we have an interlocal agreement with um the county and the
school district. And I think I brought up earlier this commission here that given that middle Tim Bernie is going to be taken offline um we need to address that and as well I talked to one of the people um who's doing the current
historic survey you know we're redoing our historic survey um and I asked her if they were including um Middleton Bernie and that hasn't been done you know that's um Paul Weaver and um Jenny Wolf. Um they did not go that far
outside of the um existing historic district, but the city I believe in and of itself would have the ability to declare that building a historic structure. I think we could do that on our own without it necessarily being in a
historic district. So we could we could discuss that. So, um, Newman Lodge, um, we've done as that's what we've done. And we're actually farther ahead with Newman Lodge than we are with the,
you know, I don't see where we're ahead at all. I'm sorry. I don't know. You guys are looking at it totally different than I am. I know we put in for I know that we put in for some grant and I believe uh we did not get that grant. So that's not
correct. That's we were on the small matching grant list for this year and it was funded and so we should be getting word from the department of state fairly soon. Oh that before I would make that statement that we have that fund then then let's get it in hand first.
Okay. Because it's been a long time coming and you know I just don't uh you know I like money in my hand before I say I got it. There's there's the first problem. Um, but I brought this up a little while ago. I mean, this is a
project that we put some money into it. We we did get uh the engineer RDG came back and they said, "Hey, we could do this for you." Uh, they gave us presentation on how it would look after it was done. It was just it was really was spectacular, you
know, and and everybody got really excited about it. Uh, and then now it just sits. But let me tell you that that particular uh um the money needed to do that particular
plan is I think and I I think I'm right but I but I might be wrong because I'm I I can't quite remember but I think it was only about $2 million some can correct me on that. Yeah, but it's a whole lot less money than the
22 $25 million that we would need to actually do this whole school thing, which by the way doesn't include how much it would cost to to purchase the school. And and so, you know, I I'm a little bit with you, okay? I understand
the frustration of of uh your your group and um but and I don't know what's going to happen to uh the Bernie school. I don't think anybody does. I I was under the impression I talked to somebody not long ago and the school has something in
line for it, but I don't know how far that will go. Um, and right now money's tight. I mean, it's tight for everybody. Uh, I will give uh the the concerned citizens,
you know, a big hand because they have been trying to raise money on their own. Uh, and I'm not sure how much money they've raised, but they've really they've really been putting an effort into uh achieving this goal themselves and and I give them uh, you know,
private money and those kind of things. But anyway, that's that's my favor. Okay. and and they did to their benefit, they they go out and they formed as as a group, they formed a 501c3 so that they could so they could raise
funds and they could act um in trying to secure what needed to be secured for that building. Um I I that's I think in the last meeting that was some of the discussion that you know I brought up is um
if I think that that would be an idea for the committee. We've never, you know, very very appreciative of the time and effort that y'all have put into this and I think we've come a long way in what we have the knowledge we've gained
based on um you know your input and but I also think that you as a group um could be very powerful if you were working um separate from us and and you were out there trying to solicit um
donors and and and funds and you can't do that together. So if you go to meet with anybody, you can only meet um oneon one. Yes. Okay. Finish my idea. Just finish my idea. Um so I think that you know and and
that's just my opinion that that that would behoove you to do that because there's power in numbers and you know it would give you that opportunity. um to talk to people. That's basically I mean down in Seville, you know, you could go as a group, you could go talk to them
and find out what they did um and how they were able to secure that building for a private entity that's, you know, it's a 501c3, but how were they able to do that? How were they able to get the funds um in order to do and they've just secured some some major funds. Now,
there's I believe county funds, grant funds that Valia County gave them. they applied for, but they had to do that. Um, I just think that that that would be at this point in time that that would be
um I I just think that would serve your purpose in my opinion better than than continuing to be um advisory to us. So, Commissioner Dita, thank you for allowing me to finish. I'm sorry. It
just you mentioned something that I had on my mind since the last meeting, so it kind of jumped out at me. Um, okay. I I don't understand um why the BRC can only
solicit donors and um funding um if they're a private group. I I think Mr. Dodge just said that they each have their assignments and they can go out um individually and then if there's
something that the group needs to vote on they can they can vote on that. Um and I do want to share with you that to me um Pearson and Seville are apples and
origins because the Seville school civil is not incorporated. Yeah. Um and I I read about that and what they did. Um, Seville is not incorporated. So, they're not in charge. That is the um I think the Seville improvement
association, a nonprofit that owns that building. Sibil is their improvement association is not the entity that is in charge of planning and zoning for that area. That's county. So Pearson is the
more comparable entity and Pearson um it's in the blue ribbon committee research book. They have already looked into this and um I took the opportunity to chat with Pearson deputy clerk. Um the Pearson school
building is 100 years old. The report says they essentially the Valuchia school district sold um six acres to them for $74,000 and they have I don't I'm not saying to
me I have not reached a firm conclusion that any one use of Miller Middle School is best but um the Pearson deputy clerk said they bought it the building and 6 acres for $74,000. They've renovated
enough of the old building to move the city hall offices into and I think maybe a county office and that the residents are very happy with it because it's a beautiful like our middle middle school building. It's a beautiful building. Um
and they are happy that they took that opportunity because it's right in the center of their town and they did what um Mr. Gonzalez from Reg Architect specifically recommended to us. If you
look in one of the last documents that Mr. Gonzalez gave us, he gave us the $29 million is the cost to fully build out um the entire five buildings of the
Miller Middle School over time for the complete adaptive reuse. That would be if you did every um change, every interior, exterior, everything to create that media center, which that's not even what we originally had in mind. Um the
auditorium, the main building, that's a long-term plan. The short-term plan for five buildings, and it's right in here with budget options. Um, so on page 43 for all five buildings
together is $1.5 million. And what Mr. Gonzalez who um he's very expert in redevelopment, he recommended that we start and by we, he, you know, wasn't going into the weeds of who owns what,
that we start with one building and try to get a use for that. So my recommendation to the commission, the reason I think we should extend the blue ribbon committee is particularly because
we are poor now. We are poor and the county is poor. The BRC is free help. They are free help. We have spent the money for the architectural report. And Commissioner
Burton, that's why I say the Newman Lodge is technically in process is ahead of where the Miller Middle School is because it's had its architectural report that the city paid for and now
the funding is coming online from the Department of State. Um and we were told at the um redevelopment conference that our our project made a cut and it's coming online through funding for the for the architectural plans. And that is
a great thing because when you have the architectural plans then the city and concerned citizens and anyone else can go out and ask for grants or ask for inind donations. But anyway, we need free help um in
I think you need to think of it as um Did anyone read the little memo that I passed out? Okay, so right now the school district owns this building, although we do probably still own two
streets and we have reverber rights and a piece of the property. To what extent we don't know um we are the entity responsible for planning and zoning in Crescent City. This is 13 acres in the middle of town.
Well round 12.77. It's in the middle of town. It it abuts our CRA. It is part of a residential community. I think we need to look at our risks and
opportunities here. The risk is if the city and what I showed you is this is a conceptual ownership and control concept. If you if we do our job
as planners and zoners and if we do our job that's why we have a community redevelopment agency. We are the community redevelopment agency board. We are supposed to look out for economic development interests in the city. If
the city does not become a temporary owner, if we do not take ownership from the school district, then the school district can do anything with it that they want. There could be undesirable
uses out there that would negatively affect the residential neighborhood to the south, the residential neighborhoods to the north, and as well our commercial district that our main street organization is trying so hard to
revitalize. Um, and one of Mr. Gonzalez's recommendations to me is that we should um amend our central CRA to include um the school property because it is a redevelopment project. It needs to be
repurposed from its use. So if we do nothing, we run the risk that someone may approach the school district with a very adverse use and we may not have the powers um to do anything about that. The
opportunity is um for no money, we can have the blue ribbon committee continue its work to look for people who would like to occupy it and bring funding. And I would remind you that we have had one local business
person and two nonprofit entities come before us. I think that we are cutting ourself off uh and putting ourselves in a bad position if we don't
let these folks go forward. Um I don't think it disadvantages what we're doing with the Newman lodge at all. Um, and I've had people come to me and say, talk about uses that we need,
including um, well, people from every walk of life and every race. I've had local businesses. I've had entities that are interested in youth activities. So, the bottom line is the BRC does not cost us money.
um we we've done everything right so far and I don't know why we would open ourselves up to you say something you're kind of going on and on and on about how it doesn't cost us any money doesn't cost us it
does cost us money but but let me just say this how it costs us money now let me let me just say this how every meeting that you have in this hall cost us money. It costs us money in staff. It costs us money in electricity.
It costs us money in time. Okay, that's what c we've already given $123,000 for you guys to kind of get started. I think that's pretty good pretty good start the same way that we gave it to the Blue Moon Lodge. Okay, we gave them
a certain amount of money to to get everything that they needed to bring it forward and they're doing it on their own. It it's so much easier to to form, okay, a nonprofit and go forward
than it is to always come back to the city, back to the city, back to the city. You're going to have to come back to the city anyway, you know, eventually eventually for to do those things that you'd like to do. And but you need to
control it. We don't need to control everything that's happening with this school. You need to control the important components. No, the power and um it would we operate
highly efficient. It is we don't need a group of us to approach potential partners. We're fine doing it one oneonone. Um and um and in addition
um as far as the law uh we fully support it in any way that we can help them, we'd be happy to do so. But uh for us to be disbanded or to have to re just an advisory committee
to to reorganize as that is all you are advisory committ it cost not hardly anything for us to continue. Okay. All right. Commissioner Lori has something to say. I'm gonna let Commissioner Lor speak. Yes. The BRC is an advisory committee to
us to the commission. We appointed them. We've created them to help us through this process because this commission is not able to be doing that kind of stuff. We don't have other stuff to do. All this work that they've done, all the expertise that they have was necessary
to come and bring this information to us. They've done that. They do that. It's an investment in the future. when we look at you got to look at something of really long range scope here. This project is not something that's going to be done in five years or 10 years or 15 years. I don't think any of us are probably going to be here by the time
it's fully realized. But we have to look at the future and plan for that. Everything that's you know they always say good things come to those who wait. Okay? And nothing big ever happened without getting started. We can't just say we can't do this now. We need to
look at the long term, come up with a way to make it there instead of keep trying to poke holes into that every moment and put as much effort into making it accomp accomplishing this um and finding partners. But the BRC is
pennies on the dollar for what we could possibly getting and what this school could be and what this property could be to the future of our community. And I don't think that, you know, the money that we've spent is just a small down payment on what we'll be able to get paid off. And then
right now we we still don't own it. No, because we haven't we haven't been able to talk to the school district and nobody has had that dialogue with it after I tried to do that a year ago. You you could do that as a 501c. You could go talk to them and put you could go in and say, "Hey, I'll give you five
bucks for that school, whatever you want to do." But you talk to them as a 501c. The problem is Py County has had a history with that. They transferred the Campbell building in Palaca to a nonprofit in a 501c3 called the Edge for Pton County Edge and they sold that
piece of property later on for way more than they got it. They paid for from the school district and then that triggered an inspector general investigation from the state of Florida, Department of Education. They are not going to do that again because they've already been burned and for good reason. they but
they will transfer it to another local government. That is accepted. That is something that's been done. It's done all the time. Um that's what happened in Pearson with the with the school there. Um and Lucia County and Patton County are two different entities. I'll tell you what, Pman County is not going to
give that school or sell that school to anybody that's a 501c3 because they I'm sorry, I didn't hear that. I'm sorry. Could Commissioner Burton please repeat for comment? I think that they will sell it to anybody that will pay for it.
Okay. And that All right. So, this is my concern about that. As I said before when I was going on and on. Um, so if the school district sells it to anybody who will pay for it, what will happen to the auditorium?
Um, I believe there are people downtown who are hoping that the auditorium can eventually be used and we had somebody right here in this room saying that they have immediate interest in using it. That auditorium historically has been a
catalyst for activities in downtown. It's all good and we all understand that here in Crescent City, right? But, you know, the city itself. Okay, we will always be there and always
be behind an organization that wants to move forward and take that particular piece of property where you want to take it. We will always be behind that and we will always help. You know, hey, if you need this and need that, we will help.
But I don't think that the city wants to take this on as a a major project right now. Okay. But but Commissioner Burton, the the part that we are disadvantaging ourselves by is twofold. Number one, you
just said you're fine if the school district sells this property to anybody. That's not what I said. I'm gonna I will say that Commission do that a lot and
I mean what that mean if this is for sale right now. What she saying is the school will sell it. They will sell it. That's what she said. Right. So anybody that would be willing to pay for it. Okay. But not that she supported that. I never
heard that. I apologize, Commissioner Devito, but that's it's your interpretation of what she said. My interpretation is different. She said they would sell it. She feels like they probably would sell it to anybody, though. Okay. So, that's good. I got
clarification on that. So, a threat is and a danger. If they sell it to anybody, there is nothing to keep anybody from tearing down the auditorium. There is nothing to keep
anyone from tearing down the gym, which um by the way, I thought we had prior discussions that that would be a great asset for community recreation. So, there's nothing to prevent anyone from tearing down those buildings and
they have been identified as major assets for economic redevelopment in Crescent City. There's nothing to prevent and we need to be very cognizant of this. One of the best things we can do for those
residential neighbors surrounding downtown is to investigate at least a letter of agreement. Does not mean we spend any money. It gives us planning. It does because we have to we have to we have to buy the lawyer to do it for you,
you know. Well, maybe. Well, I'm just saying, you know, That's Yeah, everything's a small amount. Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm not I'm not done here. So, we we spend it it is a small amount. We
spend $50,000 a year right now for our main street organization. Um, I don't think it's in our best interest to just let the abuing property that is incredibly beautiful that has
the opportunity to complement our main street area that has the opportunity as we talked about before and people here have talked um to provide recreation for our young people
which is but to a on a whole different scale. um than any other property we have left in the middle of the city. Um we need to make sure that we're good stewards of it. We spend quite a bit of money on
economic development in Crescent City to percentage-wise. This isn't much more. And my fear is um well BRC is mainly free except for city staff. If this
property is purchased by an outside interest who wants to put it to a use adverse to the business district or the residences, we will be spending money on our planners and potentially our lawyers. We will be spending money. This is the
lowest cost thing we can do right now. And as well, we're saying we don't have the money to develop it. That is the point of the BRC. And say one more thing. Yes. Okay. We you all been together for a
year now. Really? You've been working at this for a year, right? Just over. and and within this year, okay, probably 5 months ago, I suggested that you start some kind of foundation so that you could start
bringing in people. Okay. To to uh help support the idea. Partners. So, you partners. Exactly. So, you've had a whole year to at least get a list or some kind of agreement with people that would Okay. come in and say, "Hey,
uh if if if you do this, uh we have this this number of people, okay, that certainly will support this with x number of dollars or whatever they want to give so that that you know,
we could have some some type of means to get started, okay, as a partnership." I don't see where that's necessarily happening. I just don't you still are acting like a committee. You're acting like a committee advisory
committee and I think the job that you've done as an advisory committee is done. Okay. Is done. Can I respond to that? Yes. We we are meeting as a committee because that's what we were set up as as a committee. Yeah. You're done. And what we've done is
Well done. We did start approach approaching partners and then I was told that I'm not allowed to talk to people. and we were chastised by the mayor and this commission and so we stopped talking to anyone even though it was just exploratory conversations with friends. Um I was told I wasn't allowed to do
that. So I don't think that's true. That is true. That is very true. Not allowed to do that together. You're not I was by myself. Okay. So when you were talking to Dr. President Pickkins and you and you told me I wasn't allowed to do that.
You did. I did. I don't recall. allowed to do that except for except for the sunshine. I was by myself. You are absolutely right. You are absolutely right because he said that you were speaking I guess on behalf of
the commission. No, I did not. I told him I told I told I told when I emailed him and in person I told him and he knows that you can call and ask me that because I was never speaking to before the commission and
anytime I talk to anyone I make that disclaimer at the very beginning. Okay. So I I I make sure that I don't overstep my bounds and maybe I said that to you Commissioner Lori. I do apologize. Maybe I misunderstood that. I
think ultimately what in my opinion what it comes down to is this is to me it's about it's about dollars and and Commissioner Devidito, thank you for talking to Pearson. I actually spoke to one of the commissioners in Pearson about them
moving into the school building and what we had going on here and I was basically told one away from it that um and I said really you have um yes that it's it's not everything it's
cut out to be married. I know I know but I'm just saying that's just something that was that was related to me. For me, it comes down to it comes down to dollars because school district, yes, they might give it to us. How do we
maintain that school? I mean, you you sat through a workshop, most of you just sat through a workshop where we're saying it's only the essentials right now. That's where we are. We're only at the essentials. And and then you're
telling us that you don't want to raise, you know, the millillage that's going to actually raise taxes. Well, in order for us to do any of this, honestly, it's going to have to go back to the people. In my opinion, that where my vote would be is it would have to go back to the people and this community would have to
vote to say we're willing to pay for this. And I think that's where that would be my recommendation if we do anything with it at this point that we give it to the people and say, "Are you ready? Are you ready to pay for this? Is this what you want?"
We have no idea what that number is. You're just saying ask people to pay for over is it we know it'sion I need everyone one at a time guys the minute are their one at a time
the only way to know is to allow us to proceed and to do more research and to talk to people and this kind of thing does not happen overnight. One year is a fifth of the amount of time that it would take to do a project like this. This has always been a long-term goal. I
I don't think that, you know, you're expecting things to just fall out of the sky and happen or not happen. And that's not the way this kind of thing works. You work in you've been in government. We've all been in government for a while. Nothing happens quickly, does it? Okay. When you have one government working
with another government, it's twice as long. So, what what I see is your concerns about money and I told you I'm not I think it's too soon to come to any kind of conclusion about exactly what is most
beneficial to go in there. Um, again, this is the commission's responsibility. This is a redevelopment issue right now. Um, I think it's fine to ask the people,
are you okay with this? But if we allow our free volunteer help to go forward and investigate funding, take have meetings, take uh expressions of
interest from local entities who may be willing to come up with funding. Um 12 acres is a lot different than a single building. Um, I think the cheapest and most economical thing to do is to go
ahead with our free help. There's no need to spend money in this tight budget year. There is a need to proceed with the planning. At the end of the planning, then we might be in the happy position of telling the people of
Crescent City, hey, we have a consortium of groups, private and public, that would like to come together. Um, and it would take a minimal investment from the city of Crescent City, but I I think we're doing
ourselves a disservice and we're opening ourselves up to potentially a Pandora's box. um and we might have planning costs um that we would find would be a very heavy charge on our budget and or legal
costs and we might have neighbors who are are not too happy and I don't really see um I wanted to ask Commissioner Moore do the people who talked to you do they feel like we are um ignoring the
New Moon Lodge I mean do they feel like continuing to look into the Miller Middle School that that will hurt what is potentially going to happen with the new lot. Well, I'm not saying that, but they're
saying that it should be equal. You understand what I'm saying? Commission would bring the mic down a little more. Got it right there. We can start up here. Okay. I'm saying that the people, you know, they're saying that it's not equal
to them. If you gonna do it on one side, you got to do it on all sides because, you know, right, but we are processing process and can I ask a question? What what is the rush? because it's
taking such a long time even for the other group to get something. And I know that pretty soon that middle that um Middleton Bernie school is going to come up again, I've seen parts of that school being destroyed. It was it was built it was really torn down. Okay.
So for us not to even start discussing that now, see what we're going to do with that while we got everything else if everything's just going to be sitting there anyway the way I see it. So, I I don't know what we can do to make this a fair ground because um I I've had a
number of people I talked to um they probably should have been here or whatever, but um I'm just I'm speaking to what I was told. Okay. And I said that I would say something about it. So, well, as I said, the the Newman lodge in terms of funding for historic
preservation, um the city the city took ownership. Okay, let me say that. They're saying that they didn't get any help. Okay. I'm sorry. They didn't ask for help as far as um coming up with the the other money. You know, it's it's taking them, you know,
it's it's a match. Um the grant is a matching grant. Is that correct? No. Not not the the $50,000 that we just applied for. It's called a small matching grant, but we don't have to match because we're an RDI main street.
$50,000 from the state and then we don't we have allocated 10,000 from the better place to finish the construction. I'm sorry. I can't hear you. Go ahead. Um, so it is we are waiting to get
information from the state. It was approved in this last budget round. So, the next step is to get those construction documents done because then you'll have plans to go and seek out grants to pay for the construction of the building. There's the steps that you have to follow and we we've applied I
mean the first thing we applied for was the new moon launch for that next grant. As soon as we got the last um report done, that architectural report so as soon as it was done I helped Charles run fill out that application and get it done last year. So, it takes I mean this is how long these these kind of things
take these cycles do. I mean, I would love to go work on new lawns right now and, you know, finish them, fix the back of it because I I go by it all the time and I'm very concerned about it, you know, structure. But, I mean, this is like question, please. You can't do that's not
question. That's not how it works. We can't do that. I haven't for public comment yet. Thank you. But I do want to say I do want to say this is that um you know Commissioner Devito I appreciate what you say about you know it is a free
advisory committee and they are doing this but I would hope that and they know they they've got our support. I feel like we have said that we we've given them our support. We asked, we actually established this because you asked us that we would
support something happening there. But I also think that and I would hope that this committee if we said at this point, thank you. now set up your own foundation. Set that up
that they would do they would have that same charge and that they would do what they could to protect that school because I think ultimately each and every one of them is very passionate about that school. Okay. And so they would do let me finish that they would
do what they um feel like was their charge to begin with and that they would do what's in the best interest of the city. I would hope that they would. And we've never said that if we disbanded them at this point, they could not come back to us with these recommendations
and get our support. Okay. But you've never said that. There's a problem here. And what is the problem? The problem is that why it makes no sense for people to put in so much time and effort if the school district can
just at any given moment sell this property. that if you want to compare what's happened with Miller Middle School and Newman Lodge, the city took ownership of Newman Lodge, the city owns it and they did that to protect it.
Newman Lodge was being vandalized to the point of destruction and that was why the city took ownership there and you know but but we're here we don't know that's the thing is too we don't know from the school district we don't know that they
can give that property to us. We don't know that the school board is willing to give that property to us. We don't know if we can't talk to them and and you can't talk to them. You know why you can't talk to them? You know why? because I did say no, you can't talk to them because you went in
with another member and you can't go speak to them with another member from the committee. And so and that's and that's where it said if you did not have this committee, you could go meet with them. You could all of you could go sit down little we sat down little and so that's it.
That's all I'm going to say about it. At this time I'm going to open it up for public comment. Thank you commissioners for listening to me. Thank you. I would like to ask Mr. Okay, that's great. Thank you so much and thank you for your time and your
service. All right. [Music] I didn't intend to speak, but I will. All right. Uh, I'd like everyone to take a deep breath
and we'll think about the big picture for just a moment. And I and I appreciate it when when you do speak, if you pull that mic down to your mouth and then I can hear back. And I appreciate when you do that. All
right. The school district owns the property. We all understand that. They would like to be not in the possession of the property.
They would like it to be in the hands of the city. Now the city can accept it from the city, you know, through some negotiations where
the school district is made somewhat whole. That would be through negotiation between the city and the district. The in the meantime,
the city has no obligation to accept the property. You don't have to accept the property until you decide when it's at your advantage to accept the property. In the meantime, the
school district owns the property, maintains the property, pays the insurance, etc. They would like to quit doing that. But the reality is it's not going to happen overnight.
So, you would not accept the property until there was funding in place to support the property. How long would that take? A year, two years,
three years? I don't know. But you have a committee that's willing to work on getting that done. So those are the realities of it.
You don't have to accept the property. They don't want it. So that's putting it pretty simple. [Music] Thank you.
Any other speakers? Yes, sir. Please come forward. May I say something? Yes, sir. My name is Grace Solomon. I'm a new resell here a couple years. Family is interested. Ten involved for a long time. Um, and I thank you very much for
the opportunity to speak. Um, I'm I know people involved with me, but I'm I'm not in any formal way involved with this project. I'm doing it as a as a friend of the community observer. My entire life has been doing major
projects. One cannot do a project or go out and talk to people about getting something done unless you control the property that you're doing. Can't do it. I got a list of 10 people right here that I've
already reached out to say, "Hey, you know, you want to do something like that?" So on and so forth. Sure. Do you control the property? No. As I understand from coming to these meetings, what we need is not a contract because we got lost on the weeds on them
a long time ago. What we need is a simple letter of understanding with the school board to say if you can do this, we will do that. And so and that gives the city of Crescent City and whomever
you want to delegate the power to talk to people to try to find a solution. But I do this for a living. And if I The first thing I'm going to say to you, if I do this, can you deliver? And the answer is no. Why? Because it's
controlled by the school board. If you don't have control of the schoolboard, you know, giving it to some private people to go around is a fantasy. It can't happen. Won't happen. But there are certainly people that are interested in 13 acres 12 acres of downtown
Crescent City. And whether you're going to do whether you're going to control what happens to them or not, it's up to you. And what we're talking about is a letter that's a memorandum of understanding with people who already agree to what they understand. I don't understand. I mean I don't get it.
I can help it any way I can. But my perception is that nothing goes forward unless we have a simple memorandum of agreement. Not a contract memorandum of agreement with the two word that says if this then that. So if somehow it comes
to buy it, they have to let us know first and we deal with it. Those kinds of things as a protective thing. But if you have that kind of control, then you can talk to people and go and ask for their advice. There's a huge project right here that's going to happen at
some point. I'll just go call and say, "Hey, can I ask your advice, please? We got this and how are we going to deal with you got any ideas?" And you don't think he's going to bend over backwards and make sure that happens correctly. First thing he's going to say is, "Can you speak for the project?" No. So, thank you very much for my time, your
time. level. The point is I think that to extend these people is an intelligent thing to do and the first charge should be figure out a way to get the memorandum agreement done. And if you have to go out and crowdfund to get the money to get a memorandum agreement,
well, you know, it's not a lot of money to get a memor letter of agreement. Thank you very much. One more comment. While we're in negotiation with partnerships,
you would be accepting it only at your discretion. In the meantime, we would be going to the school district saying, "We would like permission to do this, this, and this." And they would either give it to us or not. That's the way the
process would work. That would be the the function of our of the blue ribbon. Say your name and address. My name is Will 104 Park Street. this
uh memorandum of understanding. There's no reason why Well, first of all, let me back up. I haven't heard anybody say if we take one building at a time to
renovate, I heard a figure of $1.5 million to do that. this group putting together a um brokering agree an agreement as to how
we're going to finance that the the this group can do that. You could and you could go you could approach the uh the school district
and say on your own as private concerned citizens on behalf of the historical society stating that um if we do if this if the school board
wants to do this. The city can do this. You can broker a deal. Then come back to the city and say the the they're willing to issue a what is it? A number of
letter of understanding. Uh, and then if we can figure out a way to get this financed, then we could proceed that way.
And there's no reason why this group as a private group or if you want to form a uh 501c3 or whatever group you want to do, you can't broker a deal, come back to the city, be a plain partner and
figure out ways to how as a group and it could be a it could be an understanding between the Putin County, the school district, the city of Crescent City, and this
other private group. They could all be playing partners and then we could share in the cost of that. Cuz right now, from what I'm hearing, we're we're not even going to have enough money to pay our basic bills. and you're talking about us
going out and financing $1.5 million. We just can't afford it. So, if you can if you can broker a deal and figure out how we can do this thing, I'm all ears.
I'm all I'm all for it. I'm all for the development of that. So, um, I'm just not buying a lot of the arguments that I'm hearing and there's there's another way to go about this and I this group doesn't seem to want to do
that. So anyway, that's that's my any other speakers. Tracy 109 prospect. I live closer to the school than anybody here that I can recognize.
I'm closer than you. Um, it uh I am concerned about this monstrosity sitting there open. I'm very concerned
about how the city would go about taking it over. I agree with Will that if a private group were formed, the whole point is you would make the decisions. You wouldn't
have to ask for permission. Please put a shake in your head, BJ. Every time you disagree, it's just order. Yes. Individuals. Okay. That's the way I feel.
Right now, you want authority that you don't have as a committee. You're not elected as this committee. You're not even appointed as a board. You're a an just strictly an advisor committee. And that's the whole point. You can't go
negotiate on behalf of the city. But if you had your own group, you could go negotiate. And as Will pointed out, you might find more partners than just the city. I am not happy that we have a
commissioner that has been a very big part of this committee. Now, I've asked, I've been told, "Oh, no. This is okay." Well, it's not okay. It is not okay that we have one commissioner that was to be a liaison
that has been a full part of this committee and wants to now negotiate as the committee. But if it was private and you had your own group, no, you probably wouldn't be meeting at city hall, you probably having coffee. you'd be doing the same
thing and you could go as a group talk to these people about raising money or you could go individually however you chose. But the point is there's no understanding and we don't know that the school wants the city to have this. You
have never none of you have talked to the school board. the school board makes the decision. Those five people make the decisions. The other concern is there are new laws
that one new law was just signed in this this month about what happens with schools when they aren't occupied anymore. And I'm sure that there are several others that are on the books. They can't just decide, well, this is
where we want it to go. You know, charter schools now have to write a first refusal. And when you're talking a 12 acre campus, it doesn't matter that there's nobody right here that might want it. Somebody else might decide they want it. Well, state law is
the school board wouldn't have any choice. But no one has ever talked to the school board in the past year. And I know that from talking to the chairman of the school board.
We don't have the money. It's very obvious. And it isn't just going to appear. It's time to grow up. If you really think that you're that talented, you have all this to offer, then get together and do it on your own.
Do we have any other speakers? Pat Maiden 202ander. I wasn't gonna speak again, you know, my feelings about this, but and I'm not a business person, but it seems to me that without the interest of the city
committee can't people aren't going to want to deal with the private citizens and the school board is going to look at them and say, "Oh, man, big bucks." and the city has the negotiating power and the you know is your property in a sense
um that that the committee doesn't have they are a private committee with hopefully ideas and investors but I don't think investors are going to talk to them unless they have some legal connection to the government that's all
I'm going to like Hi, my name is Rick BS at 109 Shell Harbor Way Satsuma. Uh, I'm here to express my support for the BRC and their efforts to acquire the school
and to not let them sunset. Um, some points to consider. There's been a lot of talk about money. The VRC as as they've said is voluntary. They have produced a 265page
report for free. Now, you know, if you would have gone to an outside consultant, that would probably cost $30, $40,000. They live out of town. They don't know the town. The BRC is prominent people
that knows the inner works of Crescent City. They are a gift and we should take advantage of them. Do not let them suns, please do not sunset the BRC. My second point on the last city
commission meeting there were probably 15 people present here that waited 4 and 1/2 hours to speak or to to show up. They waited 4 and 1/2 hours. There was and that was in support of the
BRC. There was one person who spoke out against them. [Music] Your policy should reflect the the interest of the of the population you serve.
There has been overwhelming support at least here for the BRC to continue. Do not vote to sunset then. And lastly, acquiring the school provides a golden opportunity for the
future of Crescent City. It will put you in the driver's seat by owning the property. You will be in control of what goes there. Whether you have to save whether you
want to save five buildings or one building or no buildings, you are in control. The option is like Lisa had said, somebody could come in, buy the property, you know, decide to put like an RV park,
you oppose the RV park, and they say, "Well, you know what? We think we we we should get an exemption or something. We're going to sue you." You have a big lawsuit. You know, I think the number one priority should be
get the own this land, acquire this land. It sounds like they want it to be given. They want to give it to you. So, so I think the BRC should be allowed to
continue to negotiate with the prospects of of getting this property. So please consider to allow them to continue control the destiny of Crescent
City and do not vote to sunset them. Thank you. Mayor, could I ask Mr. W just one question? Mr. WS, you gave your residents address. Do you not own the property on Central Avenue? I do. 338 Central.
You just bought the brick bank building on the corner. So you do own property in Crescent City. Correct. Do we have any other speakers? Okay. Seeing no one else come forward. I'm going to go ahead and close public comment at this time. Okay. We have a
proper um motion and a second on the table. Do we have any further discussion, Commission? Um, I just want to say that, um, I think we should minimize risk to the city. Um,
I think Moss made a very good point. We don't know what's going to happen to that property. The gym could be gone. The field could be gone. Um we if we don't
exert our authority and our responsibility for planning and zoning um I think it's going to cost us a lot more in the future. Um, and also, mayor,
I do have a question. Um, I mean for the commission. So, it is in our fiveyear strategic plan to acquire the school. Um, our we paid $100,000
for the CRA plan that includes the central the area where the school is. and it laid out the will. We had workshops. The community expression was that that
should be a community center. I do want to clarify, I heard you say a couple meetings ago when the reg report was submitted um that you would like a copy of it provided to Terry Suggs, the county administrator.
And I've been wanting to get the opportunity to ask you um why you asked that to be done. Why did I ask that to be done? Because they had shown interest also.
That the county had done that the county had shown interest that there was possibility. Um this was some time ago. Okay. Um, and so I just solely that when we got the report that we would make sure that they got a copy of it.
Well, it seems to me that we should all be on the same page. And um, did the city manager at the time know about this or was this just discussions that you had? No, I met with um, Mr. Dodge, J.R. New
actually asked us to do it and so Mr. Dodge and um Michael and um Terry Sugs, Jared Grimes and Julianne Young and who else was there? Mr. Dodge,
someone from the county fire department asked just to talk to us about it at that time. And so I went with um I we went to JR with J.R. arguable as the county commissioner and that was when
they had the discussion that quite honestly that possibly they could they could at some point get involved in this as well and they showed interest because they have a county building here. I mean that they rent from us. Um and
so yeah. So do you have some is there a point you want to make with that? Well yes. Um, one thing I think we should all have the same information. I think that's very helpful. Um, I think we should
goes every way. That goes both ways. Okay. It does. I mean, I'm just when when I when I go to a meeting, I try to report to the commission. If there's not time in the meeting, which there usually isn't, I write something up and that goes
Well, I didn't know that it was I mean, it was not a secret. Listen, there was no secret to it. It was I thought it was I mean when you meet with that group of people that somebody's going to talk about it. I didn't see it was just an exploratory. They wanted to J.R. New I
think was trying to work on this um to see if they could get the county somehow or another involved in it. Right. And so the courtesy Okay. But that so our goal says here's our goal, our strategic plan. It's in
our CRA plan. um to to acquire this and I'm I think that that is a good goal. I think um that we could as a city we could bring about a good result economically. We could bring about a
good result socially um for our young people for our community. when we spent $100,000 on um heirs consultants to do that master CRA plan um that was that was something
the public came up with the most likely way for us to make that happen and the most effective way for us to preserve the buildings and I'm um is for us to keep going the way we've been going
otherwise We are at risk of seeding what should be our control for the benefit of our seniors, our youth, everybody else. We're putting ourselves into pretty dangerous and and unknown territory. So,
um, does it cost us anything? The opportunity cost small. Um, what it would it would cost us, Mr. goal set. If somebody came in and wanted to do something that was negative, there's we have no long-term plan for that right
now. I mean, just to just to change our comp plan right now would cost us money. So, anyway, I think it's the right thing to do. I think it's cheaper. I think it would have the most opportunity to benefit the main street area, to benefit
the young people, old people, everybody. back and I think I think if we don't do this we're um we're not we're not really doing the job that is our job that's planning. That's your opinion.
Okay. So we we currently have a um proper motion and a second I ask you to do if there's no further discussion one more thing to say. Yes. And then that's it. Yes. Um, we do have a vision. Okay. For Crescent City,
we've had that vision for ever since I've been commissioner, I believe we put it together. And the other Yeah, we put the school on. I think just last year, we thought that would be a great thing. And I was the one that suggested we do it. Come to
find out, I didn't realize how difficult it would be to get grants and things because the state owns it. And so it it's not a matter of just asking for all this stuff pretty easily, but that's needed when we're there. Part of that vision also included
the blue moon lodge and how many other things that that vision included that hasn't been done, you know, so far and it's been a while. There's a there's a lot of things and so people got to go back and take a look at
all those things that have not been accomplished and a lot of that would be almost considered lowhanging fruit compared to this project. That's all I got to say. Thank you. With that, I'm going to ask Madam Cler if you please do a roll call.
Commissioner Burton. No. Commissioner Moore? Nay. Commissioner Lori. Hi. Commissioner Dito. Hi. Mayor Myers.
Nay. Thank you everyone for your service. Please know that in no way have we said it not. Um, and I expect I still expect that um I know all of you are passionate about
this and please come back to us with your recommendations. Um, I still we still have some a couple of other things. So, you have a motion to adjourn. We have two issues I know on um do you have a second?
Well, I asked for this year to be on the agenda which I know So, your motion fails for a second. So, I'm gonna go ahead. Um I know I know I have one thing and I
think you as haveix as well I don't know what information you had I don't know what information you have you said that you wanted to talk you asked to put it on the agenda but couldn't share it with well I I don't know what it was.
Okay. Well, I was hoping actually at the last meeting or whatever meeting after the discussion meeting that you would let us know if there was an update, but we had a really long meeting that went till 11:00 and we didn't get an update. So I contacted um
the chamber and Miss Palace and the president and right just so a brief summary of this um and she had sent me some information but it wasn't I don't know it one of it was a BC card for somebody to contact
and it wasn't really sure I mean she sent me information as well it doesn't really apply to this right but well what she did say is um she said that um they that she had talked to you and that um the chamber
had looked into it and that she did not think that there was yet a resolution on um whether the store here was going to be converted and the chamber had identified the people who would be the
correct decision makers to talk to. Um, and what I really wanted to follow up on was when you reported your meeting with Miss Papas, you said she said there could be some incentives. We could have something to offer them. So, I asked her, I was like, "What would they be?"
And she said, "Well, you could offer a tax rebate." And as well, um, I asked her about intangibles. Um, for example, just to sit down with whoever the decision makers are to find out what
they're basing that decision on to make sure that they have the correct information to, you know, that they're they don't have any misconceptions and as well. So if we have anything to add to that about
our economic plans for Crescent City, how we plan to um promote ourselves to bring revitalization back and how they would um how Wendix would fit into that. And as well just as we said in the
resolution that we adopted um that we would like to work with them would be an opportunity to ask them what could we do to help continue this as a as a full service store. So I found out she said
the the name and Senate would be a Senate and then the others would be intangible and we could have an exchange of information and she said obviously there's no guarantee of success but she did have to contact information. She said the chamber could help us um
plan our meeting and she said it does not hurt to make an effort. Well, we um so in the store that they are well aware that we're um um not happy about this um
about this conversion. So both of them, Aldi has been in and Southeastern Grocerers and they've been in together. Um and so they've acknowledged that. Um I did reach out to Representative Staff. He was on vacation. He got back last
week. Um, I spoke um to his legislative aid and provided her with a copy of the resolution um just to see if we could talk to him about it, if he had any suggestions that he could share with us. Also, um I believe this is what's
happened in some other communities is that there's a petition um and you could have residents sign a petition. And it's my understanding that Aldi um that if there's anything that that Aldi doesn't want to do is they don't want to come into a community where they don't
they don't want them. Yeah. Basically where they don't want them. So I did prepare this um for y'all to look at it is lengthy but it gets the point across. Um and so we could put petitions out. Of course you can't do it at Wind Dixie but
you could put it out at possibly some of our restaurants. Um, and but we can't do that without the commission's um without the commission's approval doing so. Oh, I'm sorry. I thought I gave her
so um just finish for a second, but that other rural communities um I think in Georgia and some other areas are kind of doing the same thing where there's a big concern um about about this. So anyway, I read this um
and we could do this and people could sign it and we could send it into them. Huh? And you can do it online, too. I'm not You're that person. I'm not that person, but I am definitely not that person. It was We were lucky to get this printed.
Um so that's an option that we have. Um, and also, um, like I said, talking to Representative Sap about if if there's any suggestion he has or if he has, um, you know, that that he could that he could possibly help us. So, that's where
that's where we are right now. They haven't responded back to us, but it's my understanding that they obviously received it and they're well aware that that the community has um some major concerns. Have we sent us your laptop apart here? Um, I don't think I don't know if we
sent it to Yeah, I thought we sent I thought we did. Thought we sent it to the other ones. I don't know. We sent it to Pearson, but I know tomorrow had it and I think had it too. Um, and I'll get it to Pearson. Um, we can get it to Pearson because I included them in here.
Northwest Falucia because so many of them come here from there rather than go the other direction. So, we would lose we would lose a lot of traffic. I think I told you somebody I talked to on the phone with customer service at a
company. Um we had she was waiting for her computer. She told me she resides and asked her and she was asking house crescent city when Dixie is my store. Yeah. And that's a good hike to wait. So my
recommendation would be and obviously if you do a petition um and this looks like a very nice one and very simple. It's lengthy. It's civil but it's lengthy but at least it gives the and then they would sign on. We would have the pages for them to sign.
Of course that's lengthy. Who wrote it? Okay. No, not me. Believe it or not, Commissioner De I'll take I'll take full full run of that one. I'll take full brunt of a lot
to be said. It it seems very complete like the resolution. My feeling about this is um given the economic stakes that we should pursue every avenue. Um, I think the petition is lovely and we
could even if we did it online, we could ask people to copy us. I mean, would this go directly to them? Yeah, we send it directly to them. But I'm saying would we know how many petitions were being if you sent it over.org that
tells you and then you can put people's addresses that you want to go to paper. I mean, I guess the details would have to be worked out, but I I think this sounds great. I would like to have it so that the city would know how much how much feedback they're getting from
it. Well, also how much support there is for our idea and I'm sure we hear from people who don't support the petition, but as well I I really think um they probably wouldn't sign it. Well, no, but a little quote here just
anyway would like to know. I think that's a great idea. Um I think Miss Pavlo really encouraged a one-on-one meeting and I think there's um a big difference between I mean the resolution got the ball rolling. There's nothing
like a one-on-one meeting as you know and that way um we could get information from them and if they have any misconceptions about the community we could bring forward um the what we think
is the correct information and anyway so I and she said time is of the essence so I would like to see us move forward with a one-on-one meeting if we can get with the people that the chambers identified.
Well, I think it's more and it's more who we've got there. We've got the we have the contacts and we have the contacts and and we were hoping to hear back from them, but we haven't heard anything back and I've spoken to Larry about setting up a meeting for us. They had them in
the store and and he he didn't want me to he didn't want me to bombard him. I'm like I'm not that way. Well, and maybe maybe planned maybe and I agree and I' I've talked to Larry
about that too about you know us setting up and going. So I think that's the next step. In the meantime, we can do the petition and he'll he'll see they'll meet with us. Good. I mean because this really is a little off the mark for commission meeting,
don't you think? No, because we have to get a we have to get approval. We can't do this. Lord goodness knows I'm not going to do this on my own. So, and I just wanted to make sure and when we speak, but no, because when we speak, we as commissioners when
we speak, people feel like that we're speaking for the entire commission. And so, I'm always try to be very careful. I know all of us try to be very careful that when we speak that we're not speaking, you know. Well, I usually say that. Well, I do too, but that doesn't mean
that they So, anyway, I need I need the commission to to decide whether or not they're willing they're okay with us doing this. So, are we taking a vote? Is that what you're saying? Or make a motion. Yeah. I move that we go ahead and circulate the petition on.org as well as
paper. Okay. Second. Have a motion and a second. Do we have any other discussion? None. Y'all do a roll call for us. We get this move. Commissioner Devito. Hi.
Commissioner Lorie. Hi. Commissioner Moore. Hi. Commissioner Burton. Nay. Mayor Myers. Hi. Um, yes. I would I would also like to move that the commission
that the commission authorize you to set up a one-on-one meeting with the decision makers. Um, and a second preferably preferably with the assistance of uh any assistance that the
chamber can give us. I'll second that. We have a motion and a second. Any other discussion? If none, do a roll call, please. Commissioner Burton, no. Commissioner Moore, I. Commissioner Lori,
I. Commissioner Dvito, I. Mayor Myers. Hi. And mayor, I just have one question. Yeah. in this very complicated um corporate ownership issue with this thing. So
who right now does Essie Ger still own the Wind Dixie? No Dixie always owns Wind Dixie. And so what they've agreed is I believe it's 170. So Wind Dixie is Southeastern Grocerers with a have created a consortium. um one
of them that was another group that was trying to buy that was turned down by um the federal trade said they couldn't do that. They've combined with them and I think 170 they're trying to get back they're trying to to get back from all the source.
Yes. Okay. Those Southeastern Grocerers though is the head they're the lead on that. So basically because I certainly don't want to make us worse off. Yes. Um I would not well I guess Aldi does Aldi doesn't. So Aldi owns it. So essentially the
people that you would be going to talk to would be Aldi and Southeastern grocery. Both of them. And the idea is please include us in the list going right. Okay. Just want to make sure I got that. So I do want to bring I know everybody's
eager to go, but we do have an issue and Commissioner Devito brought it up at the last meeting. We've got the dogs over on Clemens. Um yesterday, Commissioner Moore um referred a gentleman to me and I spoke to him last night. Um four of
the dogs um basically went after one of our elder residents over there on Clemens yesterday. One of them got behind her. I believe three of them were in front of her. um she was able to she had her son didn't
know if she had cane or something but anyway she was going to check her mail and she was able to yell and scream and fight them off and or kind of make them and um another gentleman came out and got the dogs moved on moved back to
Roger's house and got her home safely. Um the sheriff's office was called the sheriff's three deputies went out. Um, we have we have got to and and I don't know if city itself we have beat this thing till it's dead. Um, but we got to
figure something out that either we take this by the reins and we do it ourselves. Um, but deputies basically said they didn't have, you know, what were they, what should they do? The dog did not bite
her. And I guess there's the dog has to bite somebody. I know. Not under our ordinance. Well, not under our ordinance, but then they talk to animal control. We talked to animal control yesterday. I put a call into animal control first thing
this morning. I've yet to hear back from her. Um I did speak to um some of the county and um Captain Azerie. I've sent this out to Captain Aerie, but she in the meantime is concerned about going to
our house. I asked um Mr. Martin if he would please um have Pam look into it today. Um but you know, we can't there's it's one thing when there's one dog, right? That's scary enough. Four
dogs in a pack is dangerous. We have cited him before. I believe he paid what, $100, Commissioner Burton, you were involved in that, I think, with I don't I don't recall him paying. He did. He came in and he paid it was I believe it was $100 and um and then
things were very quiet for some times, but for some time, but I guess it's it's come back up and and you know, I may off the leash off the leash. Well, we don't know. Pam said she didn't
write it, so it must have been the sheriff's office that wrote it because I thought Cam wrote it. She wrote back and said it was a few years ago. It was not her. And I do have the CAD report. She actually just emailed over. So I will send that over to each and every one of you. This is the bottom line for pack dogs.
It was packed dogs that killed Pamrock. It was packed dogs that sent an elderly woman over in the same area over mauled within an inch of her life. They pulled her ear off. They they ripped her shreds. It's amazing that she was not
dead. The It's just I think chance. And those packs the pack of dogs that killed Pamrock had been reported several times. The owner had even asked for them to be given up. Our ordinance says that
animals are to be under on leash if they're out in public. This is a pack of dogs. I do not understand why animal control number one I don't understand why they don't come get these dogs. They were in the public right away that they were in Yeah, they were out.
Okay. I think it is just a miracle that nothing awful happened. And you know if a friend of mine was bitten by one dog, if you're a person on blood thinner or you're a small child, one bite is not.
So I don't understand given the history of packs of dogs in Pton County why animal control will not get those dogs at a minimum is it not possible for the sheriff and pam to go call on the owner of those dogs immediately. That's what I'm hoping that's what I was hoping was
going to happen this afternoon. Um representative staff and I know the county right now talking that they're asking for a an interpretation. Um he had legislation the Pam legislation that he had. Are you all familiar with that? Yeah. And it doesn't affect it. It will
not touch this situation. And again, the dog has to bite somebody. It has to bite somebody. So, while he thought he was helping, um it's still not as strong as what we need to help to help us. But I just wanted to make sure
um that you know, Commissioner Moore, thank you so much for for you know, for looking into this. and he was extremely he was very concerned. She of course is is upset because now she feels like she
can't go out and check her mail and you know and you can only imagine the terror that somebody goes through in that kind of a situation and she can only think about what happened over dinner walking. does the the owner doesn't keep the dogs in a vent just lets them know. I mean,
shouldn't we shouldn't I don't know how the ordinance, but seems like animal control should be able to take those animals. Well, and animal control again, I got that report too control, but you know, I think they can house Mr. I think you're more familiar.
Is it 80 80 dogs and right now they have over 200 because they're no kill shelter and um so and they don't know how to adopt them out. They're over capacity. They're over
capacity and when you get an aggressive dog, you know, I don't know. So anyway, I just want to make sure the commission is aware of this and we will um I guess continue to but I think that as part of our discussions with the
sheriff's office, Mr. Martin um with his contract that we're going to have to um to talk to him about. It's already on the note. And and the other problem is is if you write on the citation, you've got to have a judge that will
enforce that citation. And right now we've got I know one judge that doesn't hear those. Another judge I've heard conflicting that she will or that she won't um hear those. And then what do you do? you don't there's not
really any teeth. What do you attach it to? I I' I've been told you can't attach it to their driver's license. Um you know, what do you attach that to? So, there has to be a solution somewhere, but I I don't know that there is. But first of all, just going to lay the
groundwork. I think they need to get a citation. even if we have nothing even if we don't have a way to take them to court um between now and the next four months if there is a citation maybe we'll find a way to take it to court and one of my questions um y'all probably
saw the memo from attorney Holmes saying how we couldn't push our body our ordinances um he said the judges and paca were the I think we're the seventh circuit yeah seventh circuit um my question was
going to be for um our city manager and attorney Holmes. Um is this common in all judicial circuits that the judges will not enforce county ordinances or is it just um our circuit because we have a
serious need. We're we're a small county. We're a poor county. Um, I don't think we have, it would be very difficult for us right now to hire our own hearing officer. Um, maybe we'll have to do that, but I would really like to know why the judge is refusing to
enforce ordinances, especially ones that have to do with life and safety. That's my question. Question. Do they have anything else? No. Okay. But then going to have a motion to adjourn. So moved that we adjourn.
Okay. Second. We have a motion and a second. All in favor, please say I. [Music]