Oh, no. Okay, we're gonna go ahead and call this regularly scheduled commission meeting to order. The time is 606. The date is July 10th, 2025. Um, and Nancy Nancy is filling in and
thank you very much for our clerk Melanie. And Nancy, we appreciate it. You've done a excellent job in the last week and a half and allowing her this time. So, thank you. If you would do a roll call for us, please. Commissioner Burton here. Commissioner Moore
here. Commissioner Lori here. Commissioner here. Mayor Myers present. City Manager here here. Okay, that's it. We've got our finance
director is out and we have several staff members out today. So, just us. Just us. So, with that, I'm going to ask Commissioner Moore if you would please lead us in our stand if you are able. Bow hands. Dear heavenly father, once
again we come before you and we want to give you thanks for you woke us up this morning to a brand new day. For this is the day that you have made and we will rejoice. We ask that you be with us today as we make decisions. Help us to agree and disagree in unity and love.
Help us to do those things that will be pleasing in that sight. And we'll forever praise your name. We ask that you bless the breed families on this evening. Comfort their hearts. Let them know that you're still in control, that you're too wise to make mistakes. And we ask that you give them love and peace as
they go through these situations at this time. Only spec we do ask in that son Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Pledge allegiance. I pledge to the flag of the United States of America and to the
stands one indivisibley and justice for all. that I'm gonna start off with um with our announcements. We've got coming up this month, which is seems
like it's flying past us. We've got the um women's club is doing their bingo. It's Friday, July 18th, 2025. Doors open at 5:00. Bingo starts right at 5:45. Don't be late. You get your
card, you get your marker. Uh there will be food available as well. The jackpot payout is $50. Tickets are available at the door. You must be 18 years of age in order to participate. They also have their bunko which is seems like it's
really taken off and continuing. That's the third Wednesday of each month, July 16th, 2025. And it's going to be from 1 to three. And the cost is $6. And for a minimal cost, you can get snacks and drinks. The um
um Futland Peninsula Historic Society, they are not meeting this month and they're not meeting next month either. Take the summer off, so they will meet again in September. Um for those of you commissioners, correct? Thank you. Um for those of you um I hope
everyone was here. We have a big shout out to everybody that helped with our red, white, and boom. It was probably the biggest one we had without incident. Um, it was packed. If you could see the pictures, you all you saw were heads.
Um, it was wall to- wall and the fireworks were spectacular. Uh, I want to thank the yacht club and I also want to thank the uh downtown Crescent City downtown partnership. Um it's a it's a village and let me tell you they all
came together and they did an outstanding job. The downtown partnership is doing if you haven't seen um and haven't been able to do this stop by please on Saturday mornings they're doing their summer market. It's an indoor market and it's from 8 to 12 and
I believe they're going to carry it through the um the summer. So make sure you stop by if you can. With that, I think does anybody have any other announcements? Okay, we have no other announcements. Um, we're going to move on to new
minutes. Uh, yes, Mayor. I would like to take these minutes. Um, these minutes are not the minutes that were presented in our June meeting. Um, they have been altered to include changes from only one commissioner. We did request any of changes coming from all and I believe
that this should be under uh out of this meeting into a special meeting that we call in order for all members to review and approve the changes that were made. Okay. Is this is this all of the minutes that you Yes. Um including the June 11th and June
12th. Including the June 11th and June 12th. June 12th. So you want to pull all of them. You want to table all of them till the next meeting? Yes, ma'am. Till the next meeting again? Not to the next meeting. If we can have a special meeting. You want a special meeting? Yes, ma'am. Okay. Can I get a motion, please? A table.
I move that we table these minutes until special meeting. And I'll second that. But I have a question because our city attorney is not here. So, um I had said at the last meeting
that I thought um the minutes the 11 minutes that were presented then needed some significant corrections and additions and I did provide those. Um usually when one of us provides corrections and additions, they're
circulated to the rest of the commission and then we okay them in a meeting. So, and then for um the approval of the most recent minutes for June the workshop um for June 11th and the regular commission
meeting for June 12th. Um I sent those to the city manager. So, were those circulated? So, we can I think mics somebody just texted me and said, "Could we all talk into our mics?" Okay.
The the last ones were not circulated. And and just to let you know, we are very short of staff right now. Um I commend Nancy for helping out and getting us to where we are today. Um but it was found that uh the the proper circulation did not take place and I just wanted to make sure that this
governing body did have a chance to review and there were actually some conflicting notes between two different commissioners and I want to make sure that that's aired not uh not through emails but through a meeting. But it has to be in a meeting. So, I just wanted to clarify. I understand
because we are very short-handed um that there was no opportunity to circulate them, but the plan is to circulate them. Yes. Okay. Yes, ma'am. Okay, that makes perfect sense. And also protocol. So, not the first time, but they either wanted both Nancy
and Mr. Martin have dealt with these. So, right from here forward that won't be a problem. So, we have a current um we have a proper motion and a second. Do we have any other discussion? If not, all in favor, please say I.
I oppose. Nay. Nay. So moved. Let's go on to our um public comments. We're going to open it up for public comment. These are for topics that are not listed on the agenda. They'll be
heard at this time. Um and so I have two speakers, I believe. Um, Mr. BS, uh, is yours a general for the public? I I believe if you want to come forward, please. Mine's in regards to support for the,
uh, blue ribbon committee. I don't know if that's okay. So, we can wait till the blue ribbon committee. Mr. Newold, yours is as well for the blue ribbon committee. That's That's right. Okay. Thank you. So, we'll hold off on those. Do we have anybody else that would like to speak at this time on um
items that are not on the agenda? Okay. Well, then with that, I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to close out public comments and we're going to open it up to Captain US or even the sheriff's office. Captain, if you would please come in and give your report. Good evening everyone. I want to first
think start on the uh red, white, and moon. Then went pretty well. I didn't get any complaints from anything from the commission. Uh the city manager didn't reach out to me. So, I just understand that went well. So, we're glad for that. I did a little study to see how many
calls for service we had from 6:00 that afternoon until I believe it was 4:00 in the morning. And there were six total calls for service at present city. We did have two loud music complaints, but they were that just that music and it was over on Reed Avenue. And those two
calls were same calls. They called the first time they turned it down for us and obviously we left and got out of stock and they turned it back up and when they went back over there the second time they decided to down. So that was a that was another win. Uh we did get some more news. I know the
the the city attorney is going to speak on this a little bit, but I finally got clarification on the sleeping in the parks that we spoke of and there was some concerns for us because we contract services for Cresant City and that new house bill that just passed with the
counties were supposed to provide a place for these individuals to be able to be housed. So, it's honor's understanding that this was taking place in other counties and other counties were letting these individuals stay in the park and sleep in the parks and this was just to cover that. So, we finally
got word back that that doesn't fall under the county because we contract services to present the city and this is your ordinances. So now that has been instructed to my people last week that if there are people in the parks, I ask that the everybody that's listening out, if you see somebody that's sleeping in
the parks that is not supposed to be doing things cuz they're committing violations in the parks, we are now uh issuing them contacting those individuals yet trying to get compliance. And if we're not getting compliance, we're issuing them trespass warnings. If they're issued a trespass
warning and seen back on the property, they go to jail for trespass after warning. If they don't leave when told to do so, at that point they're committing misdemeanor, they will be taken to jail. So, I think we finally have our answer. Okay. Thank you. It just took a while to get some
clarification on us, you know, governing your rules and making sure that we didn't fall under that statute. We had to give these these these individuals facilities. So, we went in there. Any questions so far? Uh the fourth were those the calls that
you said the sixth were those for red, white and boom night or for the fourth? It was for days that the fourth itself we didn't have any complaints. Okay. So I will check red, white, and blue for you. Okay.
Moving on to our report. The first one's covering law. Obviously, we don't want to reveal the victim or the victim's location. So, this was kind of a weird one. The uh gentleman who was the victim in this case, from what I understand, gave an
individual a book either earlier in the week or earlier in the day. I guess the gentleman didn't like that book and pushed his way into place where he was at and threw the book at him and left. We get it. Our detectives are working to try to
identify this individual. Obviously, once once he's identified, we will do what we have to. We're seeing a lot of this right now. It's finally hit present city. And I don't know why, but they there is a all over town, all over Puff
County, people are stealing laundry goods. When you say laundry goods, soap laundry soap laundry soap, they take they go into a uh dollar store, they load up a basket with
laundry soap or laundry items, and they leave. Whether it be bleach, whatever it be, laundry stuff. I don't know if they're we're trying to figure that out. I don't know if they're settling online or what they're doing, but they're just getting laundry and they're running out jumping
in their car. So that's what happened. Any questions on that? Commissioners, do we have any questions? Is it good? or I think it's just like go on the counter fasting.
They want to stay clean. I'll see which I'll see which one. Maybe they have something. We don't second your traffic crash data. Now, I do not include parking lot crashes in this. This is just mainly roadway stuff cuz the parking lot crashes little fender fenders identif
We can add that to it. But this is the one we have here. Okay. Burton. Same thing we see before. Two vehicles following each other. The one in front slowed down. The other one was probably doing something. Texting or not, paying attention to where they were at, paying attention to where they were going instead. And rear end.
Here's the numbers you want to see. There's two 192 calls for service. Total 30. 35 of those are are traffic stops. One traffic accident, 14 total reports, four arrests, three starting out
for charges. And there's your sorry we have 100% increase in crime one to two. So we're very blessed. We're still very very blessed. That's really all I have so far.
Commissioner, do you have any questions of Captain? We got to make a name for the longer. We haven't fig you come up with a very unique name for it. Yeah. So,
I'm sure um Captain Glad you um I did get an email, a series of emails about two weeks ago from the resident over Clemens Lane and um you
were involved with this a couple of years ago. There was a problem of those dogs. Did I copy you on that? Did you remember? No, ma'am. Okay. Because um he actually paid his citation, by the way.
Who did? I said he actually paid his citation. The person with the loose do. Yes. I issued him citation and he paid. Okay. So, you haven't you haven't heard anything else about that because um the person was pretty distressed and I guess
I think I copied the city manager. Um I contacted um the county administration. Uh I heard back I believe from the deputy county administrator, Miss Young, but as as far as I know, the residents
up here who are having a problem with the blue starts, they work. And so I don't know um you know what communication the last time I checked they had not heard from anybody but you hadn't heard either. And um they were very distressed because one of their
animals was injured and um somebody in the family may have just you know been great not badly injured but been in the middle of having to separate dogs. Okay. Um, so anyway, they also said that the
dogs may have been on the school property. A little too, but anyway, I have not heard any more about that. You have That's what's more concerning for me there, especially those kids out there playing. Well, it's the whole neighborhood. They should have been advised though to
call the sheriff's to to call the sheriff's office reporting. It's common for people to reach out to you. I know. I know that. But we're trying to get in the habit of directing them. Please call the sheriff's office. So it's an official report.
A simple email to send issue this person citation or whatever. It's not really any inconvenience to me. Yeah. It's easier to call the sheriff's office. especially the the urgency. The reason they're calling me is because they're telling me, this is all I know, that
they have called animal control and they have talked to the sheriff's office and they've gotten no response. They're calling me because they've been in touch and I've asked them to circle back and call again after I went ahead and let county administration know that they say
they've made this contact and they did not get any respondent. I always ask people to call the proper administrative authorities, but they're calling me because they're saying they're between hard place. They have dogs running over injuring their animals
and they're not getting a response. That's what they tell me. And it's a place that's the same place that happened. The same place that happened. We all got that. Okay. I know Commissioner Alexander is working really, really hard on that the animal control program right now. He is. We are
the building starting to be completed there next to the sheriff's office. So now that we'll possibly have two facilities, one the the landfill and one behind our our office there. It's not yet finished. So there's some challenges we're facing right now with animal control. We are continually fighting
those those barriers that we're having and I'm sure there's going to be some some light at the end of the tunnel. So looking forward to that. So are we. So we'll wait. So commissioners do you have any other any other comments?
Commissioner we've been very keen to communicate through email I feel. So if you'll just include me on that I don't I did give you a shout out for solving the problem in 2023. Thank you. Is it do they know if it's the his dogs
again or another pack of dogs or is it a pack of dogs? I think it's the the same dogs. Well, okay. Not the same dogs, but the same. Okay. We also need to let um code enforcement know she got involved last time with
that. So, yes. Okay. She's been emailed about it. She has. Thank you. Okay. With that, thank you, Captain, as always. Thank you. And again, thank you for keeping everybody safe during the
red, white, and boom, and then through the fourth. Um, fourth was um, but unidentical. So, thank you for that. And you I forgot. Yeah, I'll get those. I'll look at those, too. That I I think everything was fine. I
think everything was I mean I you want to let us know. Thank you. Thank you for your support. So, we're going to go ahead at this time and we're going to open up for public hearing. Public hearing and we're going to start with number um nine which is a
resolution setting the tenative maximum village 202526 fiscal year. Do you want to address that? You need to address that. Actually, uh our finance director fell ill. Uh he has not been in and was also awaiting
information that was crucial to finalize a number from the county appraisers's office. uh we have a meeting with them on Wednesday next week and after that date u we will be able to come up with finalizing the numbering if we would like to call a special meeting to that as well. Okay.
So we're going to need to table that. So I'm going to need a motion please to table this. Can I speak first? Yes sir. So, um, for your thoughts and for his thoughts, if he doesn't already know, for your considerations,
I know from representation of other bodies that um there's likely to be a significant shortfall. You're aware of that over what was
projected. You're all aware of the credit that was given by property appraiser to the I don't know if the commission you can go ahead if you would like please don't by all means I'll do only what you want let them know so that so that the commission knows I was it was brought to
to my attention um and that's part of I think what Steve has been trying to work with the property appraiser because all those valuations are coming up they just don't work well and I won't profess to know the gory details. I do know that the
property appraiser declined to meet with uh the chairman of the school board and the chairman of the county commission because I was at a meeting with all of those and uh he was requested the property
president was requested to meet and try to explain and help us understand and he declined. What I do know is that at that point and I think this has to be revised as of July one a little u the numbers the numbers came far short in
terms of the valuation of property I want property valuations in put they only went up about 0.015% 5% and most people know that there's been quite a bit of increased valuation of property in Putnham. It turns out it's
somewhere around 5%. instead of 0.015. And so there was questions and concerns about the number that was being given as far as expected revenue. And what I was advised is that um there had allegedly
been an overpayment by Florida Power and Life, perhaps another utility as well of their tangible personal property taxes for the year 2023. And so the property appraiser had to enter into an agreement, I'm told, with power and light specifically to credit
them for uh tax revenue this year in order to offset what they overpaid, but the credits about $120 million. So um we there was a request that the agreement be provided. it's a written
agreement or we thought it might be a written agreement and the response and they and the county ended up doing a public record request to try to obtain that information and we were advised that there is no written agreement. So, uh, where anybody goes, if anybody goes
from here, I know that most of the entities that are aware of this are scrambling trying to figure out the impact on their budget um impact on their revenue and um there's a lot there are a lot of plates up in the air right now. So, you seem
like you all know about it. I didn't know you all knew about it, so I probably didn't tell you anything. The commission the commission the commission doesn't commissioner doesn't know anything about this the commission doesn't um and that's something that of course I can't you know I can't share with them exactly it
really just came up and so when they were looking at and I asked Steve to pull all those I asked Eric actually and had had Steve pull them and when you look at them historically um we are significantly um it it looks to be that we're
significantly off the Um when I asked Clay, our property appraiser, he said it's because um the housing market has leveled out. And I tried to explain, well, that has nothing to do with unless you came back
into Crescent City and re-evalued all the houses and then you devalued them, then that would have that would have been the answer. But that's not that's not what happened. So that's not the explanation I was advised of. I did not hear it directly from him. I heard it from someone with
whom he communicated and we did have an email. Um that was not to me, but it was to actually the county. Um I do know that the chairman of the county of the school board attempted to have a meeting to get an explanation and he declined to meet. So that's I don't have I'm not
going to sit here and profess to know all the details other than to say that the explanation that the county was given and that the county then advised uh the school board chair, the superintendent of schools and myself was that there had been a credit given to
Florida Power and Life because of an alleged overpayment of tangible personal property tax in 23. So, uh, I will, you know, I have a little I have some insight beyond that, but not enough that I want to say it out loud.
And I think until until Wednesday when Derek has a chance to meet with Justin and Steve and Christina and go over that to figure, you know, that we shouldn't probably jump to any conclusions just to make sure that the valuations,
you know, correct. But it is it it could possibly significantly impact um next year's budget. Most likely. Yeah. Okay. Most likely. But so for Steve, that's not what that not
that's not what caused Steve to be ill. But um but that is um that is that is an issue. So, mayor, I have a couple questions. Okay. And mainly for our city attorney. Um,
first of all, aren't we supposed to receive formal notification from the property appraiser of what the valuations are by a set date? My understanding is that he has to report them to Tallahass, but my understanding is that it's up to
the individual entities to then go on that central website and see what number he's reported and whether or not there's an independent obligation on his part other than what you might think to be a I don't know obligation of courtesy. I I don't know that answer. I'm I'm told he
did have to I'm told he did report the numbers to Tallahassee by July 1. That's July one and we get them individually as tax authorities at that point and we have that. Yeah, we've got the paperwork but it doesn't
make sense. Okay. And then just another clarification. Um it's my understanding that commissioners and that would include mayor commissioner that we can share information with each other. We just can't share our position.
I I would I would not adopt that position. I would not agree with your statement. And I'm sorry, but I think your office has even told me that. I didn't tell you that. I don't know who at my office you're referring to, but I never told you that.
Okay. that if there is a report or a document without giving our opinion of it, particularly if it's an official document, that can't be shared with the rest of the commission. I would not advise you to I'd advise you to give it to the clerk or the city
manager and the city manager can share it. Well, that's my whole point. But what's your whole point? the information that one member of the commission receives if it is important can be provided to the rest of the commission.
Not by in my opinion it would not be done on my advice by a commissioner to another commissioner. I would not advise direct communication even of that nature. I would advise that that report be given to your city manager uh and your city manager could then disseminate it.
Okay. And I didn't get a I didn't get a report. I had something that was that was verbally I was I was I was made aware of verbally. So, okay. But then what I what I was getting at is that there should be an avenue to
share information, important information, not our opinions or how we're going to vote on something, but information. There should be some avenue to make sure that the whole commission has it. I've already told you what I thought that you
was and now you know very well that I won't tell you what you can't do. I'll give you my advice about what the law says you should do and then you're free to do what you choose. But then that's on you. Well, I'm not suggesting that we start communicating with each other. But I'm
just trying to get a way to make sure that when important information comes in that we are all going to need at some point that we can receive it. So, thank thank you for that. and and appreciate it and you will I mean that's I think
that's why before you know we jump to conclusions that's why they're trying to get clarification from the property appraisal polic there's a lot more there are a lot more questions right now than answers as far as I know so so we have no idea
the extent to what's what's going to happen here as far as I think you should have some idea right now your finance person should but he may not have figured it all out because I know personally that other agencies are trying to understand it and decipher
it right now and the number changed from June till July when I first learned of this it was one number and then in July as I understand it it's a different number so there's a like I said there are a lot more questions than answers to the best of my knowledge um I think yeah
I think some people have some idea of what the total potential impact is and I think that's right right now being uh measured in two different ways. One is
what they would have expected had the abalorum growth u had the revenue been been provided based upon the abalorum growth valuation and another is what it what it's going to do compared to your
last year's receipts. There's two different numbers there. One is you know what it's going to what your number is going to be compared to your last year revenue which that's about as directly direct an impact on your budget as I can think of uh
assuming you haven't budgeted based upon a projected growth in revenue you know assuming you have and I don't know whether you have or not and the other one is well what you would have gotten had not the credit had the credit not been issued based upon the admiral law
evaluation broker if that didn't confuse if that wasn't too confusing and if it was it's my fault I apologize but the whole thing and it's it's my understanding that your TPP is about 35% of your applicable valuation so that's a
significant with FPL I mean with that having taken that kind of a hit that could be a significant and that was also one of the questions that um that I asked is you know does that impact us as well and it would impact pass the county impact school district um is impacting
us as well and that's what he's supposed to also get I guess from Justin but Justin is out correct correct and we do have that set up for next Wednesday and that'll be particular on our do 420 form and we're going to get
answers on that to to move forward we we may not get all the answers we're looking for but specific to our village and we have to set our tenative millage rate has to be set by August 4th correct so Um, is it your intent that during one of our workshops that we scheduled that we also that we could move into a
special meeting following that and do it at that time? Absolutely. Okay. Okay. So, can I get a motion, please, to um table this at this time? I'll make a motion to uh table the uh discussion of the tenative
maximum rate of 8.5914 to table that until we have a special meeting and the passage of the resolution until such time we have another special meeting on it. Okay. Can we get a second please? Do I
have a second? Okay. We have a proper motion and a second. Commissioner, do we have any other discussion on this before we actually um wanted to ask whether Commissioner Burton could amend her motion to say table it to a special
meeting that will occur before the August 4th, 2025 deadline? [Music] I would I made the assumption that it would, but uh sure I'd be comfortable if you would accept that
there. Thank you. Okay. And you're you're accepting as you're saying if you don't name a date by now, you're still going to have to readvertise it. So saying it's going to be for a date before August 4th doesn't really eliminate the need for advertising.
Um that's what I was going to ask. What is the um what is the advertising time frame? We need we need to do it in so much in advance. Yeah. For the abalorum the the rate. I mean that's that's that's a question I don't
have off the top of my head. You may obviously a special meeting is not a you can have as little as three or four days on a special meeting but there may be a specific advertisement uh window for setting a tenative mill
rate. I don't know. I don't believe so. It says we have to have a hearing, right? we have to have a hearing, but I don't think um I from everything I read, but Don, you please by all means I'll find out. But and so when you do, if you'll let if
you'll let Derek know so that we stay within those compounds, that's very important. Um but I know it does say that we have to have a hearing and the tenative is the highest we'll go. Um and we can't change, we can't go higher, we can just go lower. Yep.
And mayor, I would just ask hopefully we can provide some available dates and agree on some available dates before we leave tonight. That's what we have on the count. We have it on our schedule. Okay. Just want to make sure we It's in the business. It's in the business items. Right. So with that, Nancy, if you would please
do a roll call. Commissioner Burton. I. Commissioner Moore. I. Commissioner Lorie. I. Commissioner Deito. Hi. Mayor Myers. I. Okay. So tabled. Thank you. Let's move on to the second final reading of
revised ordinance 20256. I assume you want me to read the title, please? Yes, sir. So, second final reading revised ordinance 2035-06 amending the public facilities element of the Crescent City comp plan ordinance read- adoption from August of 2024.
closed brand and ordinance of the city of Crescent City, Florida. Admitting the public facilities element semicolon water supplies facilities work plan of the Crescent City comprehensive plan comma providing for implementing administrative actions comma providing
severability comma providing for conflicts comma providing for nonification comma and providing for an effective date. Okay. Thank you very much. And I move that we accept on the second and final reading the revised ordinance
2025 06. Second. We have a proper motion. Second. Commissioners, do we have any discussion? No. Okay. I'm going to open it up for public for public comment. Do we have any public comment on ordinance 2025-06?
Seeing no one come forward, I'm going to close public comment. Um Nancy, if you would please do a roll call for us. Commissioner Burton. Hi, Commissioner Moore. Hi, Commissioner Lori. Hi, Commissioner Deo. Hi, Mayor Myers.
Hi. So, move on from the second meeting. Approve on the second reading. Okay, we're going to go to the first reading of ordinance 20250. Ordinance. First reading 202507 an ordinance of the city of Crescent City, Florida adopting a smallcale comprehensive plan amendment in
accordance with section 163.3187 Florida statutes amending the future land use map designation for a property totaling approximately 15 plus or minus acres located at 100 Grove Avenue, Crescent City, Florida providing for a change in the future land use map
designation from commercial and medium density residential to entirely commercial, providing for implementing administrative action, repealing all conflicting ordinances, providing for severability, providing for non-codification,
and providing for an effective date. And then it's got parentheses Crescent Lake Fish Camp LLC. I assume they were the applicant. Thank you, Mr. Cory. Rebecca, thank you. And Rebecca, if you would please, if you would introduce yourself for those of us
that have not met you before, had that pleasure. Thank you. Good evening. I'm Rebecca Codle. I'm a pler co Associates. Pleasure to meet everyone this evening. Tonight, I will be presenting you with two requests. One is a smallcale comprehensive plan
amendment. The other is a resoning request. Since they are associated with the same project, I will present them together, but they will require two motions and two separate voting actions. The request is from Crescent City Fish
Camp LLC, which currently owns and operates an existing fish camp on the opposite side of Grove Avenue. They recently renovated the RV park and are now looking to expand their operations.
The property consists of four parcels and is 15 acres at 100 Grove Avenue. A portion of the site is currently designated commercial and the remaining area is medium density residential. The request is to change the land use
designation for the entirety of the property to commercial to allow the expansion of the fish camp and create a unified building site. The associate agree zoning is a request to zone the entire property for planned unit development. The current zoning is
MR1 multif family residential and C1 commercial. Currently the property is vacant and above lake. The expansion of the existing fish camp um is proposed to have a total of 58
accommodations. that includes 11 cabins which will be either park models or tiny homes and 47 RV pads with some boat parking available. The plan also shows two out parcels for future commercial
development along US 17. Right now there's not a a proposed project but the permitted uses for those out partials they include retail uses, personal services and restaurants. The owner has indicated that residents
utilize an existing path along the lake and these paths will remain accessible to locals and guests in the naturally reserved area on site. One thing I do want to point out about the development agreement document is that it does allow for up to 74 accommodations,
but at this time only 58 are proposed. If the applicant came back and wanted to expand the project area, they would have to revise the con the concept plan that's in their development agreement. The surrounding land uses include
commercial establishments along US 17 and an existing RV park and residential neighborhoods to the north. The property directly adjacent to the south is currently vacant and undeveloped and presently is to the east. The property has nearly 450 ft of
frontage on North Slim Street, which is currently maintained by the state of Florida, and has almost 900 ft of frontage on Grove Avenue, which is maintained by the city. There are wetlands on site, but the campground does benefit from the natural
beauty of the property and proximity to the lake. So, this area will be preserved in its natural state. And as I mentioned before, the trail in that area will also be preserved. In considering the future land use
amendment, this project is consistent with future land use goal number one to preserve and protect the city's natural resources and quality of life by establishing a pattern of development that's harmonious with the city's natural environment and provides a lifestyle for city residents.
The site is in a wellestablished urban area and the land uses around um will not be negatively affected by the project. Objective A.11 in the comprehensive plan states that the city shall coordinate future land
uses with the appropriate topography, adjacent land uses, soil conditions, and the availability of facilities and services. The property's camber soils are characterized by good drainage and are well suited for development with minimal need for storm water management.
The project area is located outside of the flood zone. The site is served by adequate public infrastructure and utilities and then the development could benefit local businesses by increasing customer volume to the area. The site will use um existing
infrastructure including roads, water and sewage systems. There are 8 in sanitary sewer mains and a 4 in force main growth avenue. In considering the resoning application in addition to considering its consistency with the comprehensive plan,
you will need to consider its compatibility with the surrounding uses. The proposed PUB facilitates the expansion of an existing adjacent RV park and commercial development located at a key intersection. These uses will contribute to the local
economy and will not fundamentally alter the surrounding character. In addition, the proposed use pattern does provide a beneficial transition between the commercial corridor on US 17 and the lower intensity residential neighborhoods nearby and does not constitute.
I'm sorry that it doesn't constitute what sprawl development spraw correct staff recommends approval of both requests for future land use amendment and the reszoning. The planning and zoning commission members voted 5 to
zero at their June 25th, 2024 meeting to recommend approval of both requests to the city commission. A majority vote of the city commission members present is required to approve or deny this request to amend the future use and resone the property.
Okay, I'm available for any questions. Thank you. Can we get a motion? I need to approve ordinance 057 and do you want to Yes. Let's do individually at a time period. So he
moved for the operative plan amendment press. I'll second that. Okay. We have a proper motion and a second. Do we have any questions? And this is on the small scale. This is on the um this is the next one will be
the actual project. Correct. This is a small scale. and the other ones on the um yes there will be two two organs so it requires two actions and I did want to point out that the name of the facility is actually present
fish camp present city fish camp I know both ways again one of the ordinances has present city fish camp and it needs to be corrected um another thing that I noticed is you listed as a plan unit development, but
when we redid our LDC's, we just called them plan developments, PDS. I know it's just terminology, but I think that we should consistent. Make sure that that's all consistent. Correct. Thank you.
Very good. Um, mayor, I have some questions about the information she presented. So, I'm um and I just got a copy of actually the um your staff report. I just received
this yesterday. Um the agenda packet wasn't posted until Monday night and I haven't I just thought they tried to get it out. You got as much as you could, I believe, to um the commission. I just had a staff issue.
Okay. But it's 42 pages and I didn't get it until yesterday. So, um I am looking at I am looking at I don't know what page this is, but I guess the existing zoning map and the
proposed zoning map. Um one thing I'm not clear on for this is it shows there's a heavy dark line that shows the project limits. Um, and you said the property next to it is vacant, but it looks as if um the
southern property boundary would back up to the backyards of the homes on the north side of Palm Avenue. I think it would be helpful if um if you look at the the site plan
which is at the pages at the end. At the very end, yes, it's at the very end. It doesn't the property does and there will be. Yes, there's easier in between and there
will also be a landscape for I'm sorry. That's okay. I I I won't I can look at this copy. I'm sorry. I did not hear what she said. There there's an easement running in between and there will also be a 10 foot
landscape buffer between the project area and the property to the south. So the city has the east. Okay. And how wide is the east? We the engineer for the project has that information.
Okay. Um another question I have. Okay. So there's 10 foot buffer and um and there is an easement. How wide it is, we don't know. Um the engineer for the project is here and
he he does have that information. I believe also that's wetland. So there's they're going to be limited right there on that south that south end also. Is that correct? It was the north end. I'm sorry. The north end was the south end. It was a vacated alley of 20 ft. So it's 10 ft to the
house is 10 ft to this property according to the survey. Okay. Does my understanding the wetlands on the lake east side? Yes. That's the the east side of the property. Um and the city manager said
that signs were put out. So, I don't know whether um the people who live on Palm Avenue received any kind of notification. The signs were out um for approximately two weeks um before the planning and zoning meeting that we had.
Okay. Cuz I Where were they put? I did not see any. They were on 17 and clear view right in front of the for sale sign. Okay. Um the mail, right? Yes. Yes. So, and um has a traffic study been done
with respect to the impact of I think you said there's going to be space for 47 RV pads and boat parking. One was not submitted with this application that the engineer is here. That would be
another question that he might be able to answer. Okay. And then one question that I had um let me just clarify one thing because there'll be the next phase to this which will be site approval. At that point they will have to provide us with chip
generation numbers. Then a determination will be made based on this code as to whether a false analysis will be necessary. RB parts tend to be low in terms of trip generation. So it it may not actually trip the threshold
for a full-blown TIA. I know that they will have to do a study though in association with uh their access on to US7 because the state park. Okay. And then another question I have
is so the existing um we're really to make this planned development um we're combining what is currently commercial property that's on 17 and then um a lower density property
I think it's what is the existing residential multif family? Yes, it has a a multif family zoning and a medium density residential land use. Okay. So for that portion of the
property um what are we losing when in terms of for example if it was developed um under the existing zoning um would there be different landscaping requirements than there is for the
commercial designation? We we will still require similar landscaping requirements with the PUB to ensure that there's sufficient screening. Okay. But they're completely different. And the um the depiction of what they
would build shows almost um complete paving for the interior. I don't see where there would be space for land for um very much landscaping. it looks like it would just
be minimal. And as well in the there's a concept drawing or whatnot. Um it looks like there's no landscaping whatsoever planned for the front of John set a team. So at this time there's there's no
development proposed for those two out parcels. So if they come back in the future and want to develop those then they will be required to put landscaping in that that time. they will still have to show the landscape buffer width on the plan. Um but at this phase they
haven't submitted a landscape plan that will come with the next phase if this is approves the use then they will submit a formal landscape plan in the future and that will come back through the process. That would be correct. Yes, that's correct. Okay. because on on this drawing
um it shows a building it shows a commercial building front running on 17 with no landscaping just a setback and then um the RV portion seems to show um pavement
all pavement um a storm water management facility um and a small recreation space. So essentially it would um I don't see that there is planned um any room for green space and I'm assuming that that would
be a little more dense than you would have with multif family residential about that the along the perimeter there are the landscape buffers are just the widths are shown at this time the plantings aren't shown yet um but the
and I know it's a little hard to see on on the size of the paper but the wetland area that will all be preserved. So the symbol it almost looks like little um grass that will all be preserved in its natural state. And then the commercial
area, it does look like pavement it with the the cross-hatching, but at this time nothing's proposed for that area. That's just being set aside for future development. So there's not a building or a parking lot proposed on that portion. It's just to to show the different
project areas. So the natural vegetation will remain in the wetland area. Yes, that's correct. But the central part looks like we'll have absolutely no no vegetation and it will be um just pretty much um buildings buildings and
and roadways. So I noticed um there was um commentary about the quality of the soil. There must been a soil study. Um, does this development have to get any kind of approval from the water management district? Yes.
Okay, it does. Um I guess that pretty much questions. [Music] Um the only question I have is they have in here for the tiny heads that shall
not be leased for more than 28 consecutive nights. Where did the 28 come from? Is that standard? I mean, and not 30 because even or 31 because somebody wants to go monthto month or rent for a month, a full month or the 28
days. Was that their proposal or is that their proposal? That was their I just didn't know if that would limit them with 28 days. That's um because it didn't say business. It didn't say business. It's just calendar. So, it would it would
fall down calendar. Correct. So you know your next step is going to be to ask the applicant to come forward and make their presentation and they'll probably explain applicant too. Yes, sure you are. Normally normally after the staff after the staff presents their overview
normally at that point your next step would be to have the applicant come forward and make a presentation and they may answer a lot of the questions that you have. Thank you Don. Yeah. That's really the only that's really one of the only questions that I have. Hi. Um, my name is Ken Henson. I am the
applicant. Um, I'm an engineer with Lightbook Engineering. Um, I also have Mr. Andrew Garcia. He's the developer on the line. He's listening in. Um, and I can answer a few more questions. Do you want to tilt that microphone up just a tad bit easier for Thank you. Appreciate that.
Like this. Yeah. Any questions that you guys might have um in reference to the 28 days for the tiny homes? Um, I didn't know of any real reason that there was 28 days. I I believe that the idea was they wanted to
set a date that um that they wanted to limit it by um I mean that's that's their prerogative. I just didn't know with the 28 days many times. Um not to interject. Go ahead. But uh 28 days I see as a
number to sort of avoid the extended stay parts which some people want some people don't but uh it's not unusual for me to see a 28 day number in there 30day whatever it might be just so you're
putting a number that would prevent people from essentially making it their home you know uh so the number may be arbitrary I don't know. Yes sir. Yeah. Um, Mr. Mr. Garcia spoke to me real quick. It's about claiming residency. That's that's the 28 day comment there.
So, that's claiming residency if it's more than 28 days. Yes. Okay. Because it's specific. It says shall so it's specific in there. So, I just wanted to make sure I was just asking the question. Yeah, sure. Absolutely. That's really that's really my only question. Commissioner, do you have something? No.
No. I may I was just going to say it seems to me that they're intending this to be more of a hotel motel short-term stay kind of place. That's what they're going by. Yes. Um in reference to some of your previous
questions as well on the southern line of the uh of the property, there's going to be that easement that that is already there that's not our property at all. um then a 10 10ft landscape buffer, but there's also going to be a barrier fence, a six foot barrier fence um right
along the edge of the east um on our property in reference to your I do remember seeing somewhere in here about them at one point, but obviously that's not in sight the conceptual site kind of is
that I leaving that land, you know, untouched I think would kind for that marina. Um I just didn't know why that's in my head because I saw that in the development agreement or something but that's not a plan. Uh, no. As of right
now, there's no plan for any marina at all. They don't want to impact any of the wetlands in any way, shape, or form. The reason why you you saw that is because when they originally applied, it did include a request to have marine and I believe there's one exhibit that still
says marine on it, but through the review process, the marine proposal was pulled out because while they may do it at some point in the future, they're going to come back with a lot more specifics. At this time they weren't prepared to answer all the
questions about the rate. So they decided that it was there to just pull that out and for those that don't know they already have the facilities next door but you have dock and store and some other stuff. So they would all be able to use the same
facilities but it's a beautiful place. It's definitely improvement from what was there before years? Yes. So does the do the ordinances that are before the the board tonight they don't include a development plan, do they? There's an attached concept plan to the
the PD agreement, but it does not include a Okay, that's what I was asking. So, as you know, and more Mr. Carrie can probably explain it for you, but unlike normal zoning, a plan development does tie your approval to the submitted site
plan, for lack of a better term, or uh development plan, whatever your terminology is going to be for this one that's here. Correct. So if if the marina's not on there where I'm standing, you're not approved yet. Very similar to Well, it's just like
what we did down here on the south end of town. Correct. Yes. We have any other questions, commissioners? I think he's still presenting. Yeah. Any any other questions? anything that I didn't answer, please uh please.
Well, yes, if you could just repeat the um the easement um what was the width of that the on the south? I don't know the exact distance of the easement to the south that that's not our property in any way, shape, or form. We are not going to be touching that.
It's 20 ft and it's 10. So, it's 10 ft per side because it was abandoned. Yeah. According to the the boundary survey, so it was 20 ft. Got it. Thank you. And the city uses that to get down to
those um to the lift stations, too. Um do we will there be a lift station as part of this or is there one that's going to be tied into do we need to have one? We are going to be tying into the lift station to the north along Grove Avenue. Um through our discussions with uh your
utility district that we are able to handle. Yeah. Okay. If there's no other questions, I'm going to open up for public comment. Yes. And I would suggest that you take those who might want to speak in favor of it and then those who might want to speak
against that way it keeps you from jumping back and forth. Thank you. Thank you. Um, at this time I'm going to open it up for public comment from those that are in favor of this project. Please come forward.
Okay. Seeing no one come forward. I'm going to open it up for public comment. For those that are not in favor of this project, please come forward. Okay, I'm going to close public comment at this time. Okay, there no further discussion. We have a proper motion um and a second and this is on ordinance
202507. This is the small scale comprehensive plan amendment. Nancy, if you would please do a roll call for us. Don't forget to have discussion. We've had discussion. Yeah, we have we had
Yeah, we had a motion. We had Okay. But we had comment and then he had us presentation. So, no, he didn't. He was just He didn't give a presentation. Rebecca gave a presentation and then he was
there to answer questions because questions. Do you need to have some discussion, Commissioner Devidito? Um, I do. I had a couple of points I wanted to bring up. This is my machine. So sorry. Same subject. Yes, please. Of course. Okay. So, this is an
amendment to our comprehensive plan and um and I'm sorry. I thought Mr. Holmes said that the applicant should make a presentation and I thought that was a presentation on behalf of the applicant. So, whatever um technicality, thank you very much. So, this is an amendment to
our conference and planning. Um I was looking at our master plan um that was done for our CRAAS on US 17 um and it's
not clear to me um that well it looks like the master plan had a specific plan that envisioned um multif family residential in that location with a view to the lake um which I thought
was a good use for the property and uh carried with it more landscaping. Um I am to me I am really not comfortable and I I don't quite um I can't quite
get to the conclusion that was presented by Miss Cuddle that this enhances the livability or the quality of life for residents of Crescent City. To me that's a bit of a jump. Um because what I see
is we are going from um the residential area of Palm Avenue and the residential area to the south instead of um the graduation which you have single family residential then north of there this
property that's proposing um to be changed in comp plan from multif family residential it's going completely commercial Um, and I'm not really sure that that benefits um, the residents of
Crescent City. It certainly leaves less property for residential development and more property for commercial development. I think Crescent Fish Camp is a great place. Um, I would be more comfortable with this if they did not
have such an intense commercial development in mind. Um, and I I don't think it really is what we had talked about previously um in our CRA master plan for the north part. So that I just wanted and of
course um Commissioner Moore was not here when we adopted that um CRA master plan. So that was my comment to my fellow commissioners on that particular. Thank you. So um I do have a question
and Mr. threat. Um the CRA with um Crescent Fish Camp is not part of our CRA. Back um when it was Leonard's Landing, they opted out and they did not want to be included in the CRA. So that
property is not included in the CRA. Is this property? Would this property be in the CRA? I don't know if that Yeah, I don't think it I don't think it would be because most of that property is right there at the
right there at 17 and not and not further back. That would have been considered multi multif family. So, I just want to make sure I know that the fish camp itself outed out from being included. And I just want to point out that basically a third of this property will
be left in its natural state. I'm sorry, what% about a third. Okay. Okay. That's just something as we go forward just if we can clarification to make sure. Yeah. Okay.
And I'm not saying regardless of whether it is or isn't in the CRA. master plan I think addressed properties that were adjacent to the CRA but not necessarily in it. It's not in the district. The plan doesn't apply to it. So you might you
might have referenced it but it's not in the district. The the community redevelopment agency plan doesn't apply to lands that are not in the district. Right. And it's not actually binding on us either unless we're spending CRA money. Right. And then we have to follow
the plan. I'm just saying we had a concept for that area and this is different. That is mainly what I share. Sure. Okay. You done? I Nancy, at this time we have a proper motion and a second. Do you please do a
roll call? Commissioner Burton. I. Commissioner Moore. I. Commissioner Lorie. I. Commissioner Devito. Nay. Mayor Myers. I. Okay. So approved ordinance 202507 to go on to the second reading.
Now I'm going to need a motion on ordinance 202508. Well reading I'm sorry you want to read. Yeah sure will. So first reading ordinance 20258 an ordinance of the city of Crescent City Florida resulting
approximately 15 plus or minus acres located at 100 Grove Avenue Crescent City Florida from multif family residential PN MR-1 close PN and general commercial PN C-1 close PN to planned unit development PN PUD close PN
providing for findings of consistency providing for amendment to the official zoning map providing for conflicts providing for severability providing for non-configation and providing for an effective date for Crescent Lake Fish Camp LLC. Thank you, Commissioner.
Motion, please. I'll make a motion to accept ordinance 2025-08 for the resoning of approximately 15 acres located at 100 Grove Avenue from MR-1 and C-1 PU.
Okay. Do I have a second to go to first meeting? Second. We have a proper motion. I think commissioners, do we have any discussion? So, does would you would you mind asking the applicant if he has anything additional to add? Thank you. Would you is there anything else you would like to add on this?
No, ma'am. And and since it is a separate ordinance, you would also call for those in favor and against. I'm sorry. No, that's okay. I I would I just have to make sure that we have our discussion. Yeah. So, do we have any discussion? Do you have any questions of the applicant at
this time? Commissioner De. Yes. I have a question. I guess either of Miss Carrot, I mean Mr. Carrot, Miss Kyle, or the city attorney, whoever can answer this question. Um maybe with our new land development code, the requirements for a plan development
ordinance have changed. um as I don't see the place in here where it incorporates the plan. [Music] The the development agreement is
attached to the staff report and at the end of the staff report is the concept plan and their details for the types of signage that they are proposing. Okay. But when I look at this ordinance, and I didn't have time to ask the city
manager yesterday when I met with him, when I looked at the ordinance, all it says is a conceptual master site plan will be submitted to the city for approval prior to the issuance of building permits. And
that will all be approved administrative. And it says what the permitted uses are. says recreational vehicle park, campground, tiny homes, short-term lodging, car washes, because keeping in
mind this could all be residential. Um, basically it says the town engineer will determine whether the traffic capacity exists. um signed. It says um I mean this
ordinance appears to to me to give the applicant um a waiver from the sign requirements and I don't see anything in here about following any landscaping requirements
or the site plan. that just seems to say that it's going to be reszoned and details will follow and will be approved administratively and I don't remember that that is how we
did prior planned unit developments either for St. John's recovery place I don't actually have the agenda the ordinance itself You got it. We have the PD and plan to us
and that was in last week. Okay. that that's informational and I don't see any requirements. I mean it says specifically um traffic is up to the town engineer sign flexibility. It
doesn't say anything about what land go to 10. Did you go to 10 where it talks about signage? All signage plan development shall comply with article six of the present city land development code except specific
page 11. Okay. No signage shall be permitted in the wetland area. Okay. I guess my my question is what um they will have to they'll have to come back and go through plan.
Okay. But it was it was my understanding when we did previous planned unit developments that the ordinance incorporated the development agreement and we had very we had very specific um for the Moonshine RV Resort. We had very
specific details, not that they were followed. Um, we had very specific requirements for buffers, for lighting, for signs. Um, there was a lot of detail in there. And if I recall, I could be wrong. Um, but all that was incorporated
by reference in the ordinance. This there's no um what makes this agreement binding? I'll agree with you that that the title of the ordinance is correct. There should be a section that
never consists of agreement. Wouldn't that be in this? I mean, this is what this is what you do. You have you have that yes I have I have the staff report but what I'm saying is um so there's an ordinance the ordinance I don't see
this is what you got on development conditions as much from this so you know different municipalities counties do it differently Um, I'm accustomed to seeing the the
development agreement as a standalone document to include a site plan. I'm not accustomed to seeing it as part of an ordinance that approves the putt. The putt's zoning. The putt is a zoning classification. Your comprehensive plan, the first ordinance was a future land
use map amendment or modification to accommodate zoning. Now you've passed the comprehensive plan on first reading. Now you now your zoning is supposed to be consistent with your comprehensive plan. The comprehensive plan you you designation you attributed to this
property is commercial. The zoning is HUD which would be for commercial purposes. Sub paragraph three or section three states a conceptual master plan be sub to the city for approval. It doesn't say city commission. So I don't know if that's supposed to be city commission or
to whom but for approval prior to building permits modifications of phasing may be approved administratively to accommodate specific uses as they develop. That's modifications in phasing though not the approved plan. So I'm I'm accustomed to seeing that plan submitted
but not necessarily as an attachment to the ordinance that approves the pud. I don't know. I don't have I forgot my laptop tonight or I was at a different hearing actually and came without it. But I don't know whether your current LDRs uh provide for approval of the site plan
and the putt agreement by the commission. They they it provides for approval of the master development grant and master development plan. Okay. and then a site, you know, a more detailed construction drawing by the commission
by the planning and zoning commission approves that. Okay. So that would mean that if that's and I I'm taking this, you know, I have not in front of me, but if that would be the case, then the the planning and zoning commission would approve the development agreement, which
would include your specific plan. And it would be up to them to make sure that all of your that and staff to make sure that all of your ordinances regarding landscape, lighting, buffers, etc. are consistent with what that development agreement provides. after we've done
approved the reasoning after right after you approve the res what we're doing I think we come back for second reading assuming it does pass on first reading we'll correct the ordinance so that it
properly references the right because I guess commissioners what I'm concerned about is we are we are giving up um the whatever it is the requirements um that are expected for
the lower density um multiple residential multifamily um or whatever it exactly is. We're we're giving up all those requirements. And the last time we did that for Moonshine Acres, we were very specific
about certain things that we wanted to make sure would be required in return so that there would be appropriate um buffers and whatnot for the residential area which for that RV park
was to the north. Um, and this ordinance seems to leave a lot to be desired. We've gotten it on very short notice. Um, there's really not been an opportunity to
compare the differences in what all would be required for the property for multif family versus commercial. Um, but we all know commercial is more pavement and whatnot. Um we just we just don't
know. And um my other observation is we we have not done a good job in the past holding planned developments to their requirements. Um I think for moonshine acres um they did clearing that was not
allowed. They did um they did not keep to the buffers and um we had several reports of hunting occurring in the city on that property and nothing was ever done. I don't expect that hunting is going to happen here. Um but I just
think when we're going to such a higher commercial density, we ought to take a little more care because we want to make sure that's right in the middle of town. We want to make sure Quant City looks good. I mean, commercial development can be a very good thing, but as well, you
want to make sure we talk about beautiful Crescent City, and that was one of the main public comments when we did the hearings for the CRA plans for North, South, and Central that people want Crescent City to look good. Um and
I'm not sure that we have that sufficient assurance and attention to detail because once we pass this um without any further inquiry then it's out of our hands and it's um got to meet the standards of what commercial
development now because it's been well it's development it'll be the standard that's in the plan do and that plan do sets forth how the area the property can be used. It's it includes uh setbacks,
signage, it provides for you know buffers and the other thing I wanted to say is we were told that a third of it is going to stay natural. So it's 15 acres so five
acres of that will stay natural. That's approximately approximately reasonable. So contract zoning is illegal in the state of Florida. A plan unit development is about as close as you can get to contract zone, right? Because you're not just with any zone
with a zoning reclassification. That's just a blanket zone to commercial, let's say. You don't really have control. You may have some site plan criteria that in certain intensities of of commercial, usually the most intense uses or industrial, but in general, anything that's allowed in the C1 C commercial
district can go there. Period. As long as it meets your landscape ordinances or whatever those you have. This is something that is is going to be basically fine-tuned uh so that you have a development agreement that they have to adhere to
and if they want to change it they have to come back for a modification. Um and as far as the enforcement that's you know the law assumes that if you pass something you're going to enforce it. If you don't that's a different that's a different question altogether. Not that isn't a you don't not pass something on
zoning because you're afraid you won't enforce it. That's it's up to you to enforce it after you pass it. I'm just pointing that out. No, I'm just I'm just saying another PD probably something that you know I hear you you want to and I agree with you that planning and development agreement
should be enforced. I mean it is something that that you want to enforce. That's that's a condition of you granting it. But enforcement as I say I think you have to assume it's going to be enforced when when you pass something like this. Thank you. Um, did you have something?
No, I was just um I I will say and I I will echo Commissioner Lori that um Andrew and his partner have done a a a fine job there and it is a it is a jewel right there in
town and so um we appreciate the the attention to detail. I appreciate the attention to detail that they have shown so far on their properties. Um so with that we have any other and I'm going to open it up. I have one more question. So
the part that is wetland that is being left natural which is good thing. Um is how much of that is actually able to be developed the whole thing be developed? Um it depends how much money you want to
spend. you know, weapons can be impacted if you're willing to buy weapon credits. So, uh, it I think it's cost prohibitive to do that, but it certainly not impossible.
Okay. Thank you. Okay. At this time, I'm going to open it up. Thank you all um very much. I'm going to open up a public comment. For those that are in favor of this, please come forward, state your comments. Seeing no one comes forward, I'm going to open it up to public comment for
those people that are against this project. So, please come forward and state your comments. With that, I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to close public comment and I'm going to go to Nancy if you would please do a roll call. We have a proper motion um in a second to on the first reading
in order 20250. Commissioner Burton, yay. Commissioner Moore, yay. Commissioner Lorie, hi. Commissioner Devito, nay. Mayor Meyers, I thank you. First meeting is approved to move on to the second reading. And
with that, let's move on to um we're going to go we're going to go to the um central do you want to come up and and speak on the central business district? I'm going to close our public hearing
regard um we will have the development agreement and the second reading that will be attached to that. Yes. And we'll have the corrections ordinances coming out development. Yes. And the present
city. As always, I appreciate the expertise copy editing. And I'm going to double check your ordinances. Not that I doubt Mr. Karen at all, but I just want to double check to make ordinance regarding approval and
submitt of the development plan and so forth. Thank you. This item tonight just here to get direction from uh the city commission. Uh as you know, we've adopted a new land
ballot code. That land moment code provided for a uh central business district uh reszoning that would be eventually applied to uh the area around central uh at north and
south. There is a uh map which you you've you've already seen this more than once if you're if you'd like to see uh what the physical area we're talking about. It's uh at the end of uh so
there's a staff report and there's a map. But what I want to talk to you about is the provisions within the uh central business district. We want to go forward uh in the near future and
contact all the property owners that would fall within the boundaries of this map and have a public meeting that will uh talk to them about uh the central
business district and its uh application to the property. And then when I do that, I want to make sure I go forward with a regulation which you all support and agree with. I don't want to uh be in
a a large public meeting and be talking to them about uh potential changes that you guys haven't heard about and uh and don't approve. But uh since the land owner code was adopted,
a one of the land owners approached us very shortly after adoption. This was when Charles Rudd was still here. And that uh applicant or or a potential applicant for a quest, his name is u Ron
Lard. And I believe he all you might know him and he may even discuss this issue uh with with some of you. Uh but what what he purchased about was allowing uh residential on the ground
floor of the central business district. the the the the current zoning which is GC1 which still applies and is a suburban zoning category uh that the eventual plan is move away
with prohibits ground for residential and so does the proposed central business district. This is something that uh the former city manager felt very strongly about. So when we
discussed this with him, uh he indicated that he was not uh in support of uh changing uh the provisions of the code as they're being presented. So
uh what Mr. Lard talked to me about was putting residential behind the frontage. So there wouldn't be any ground floor frontage directly on uh Central Avenue with residential behind it. And so uh I
want to make sure that uh that you guys either support the way we currently have written or would support changing this as we go forward and present this to a larger uh group of uh property owners. You have
uh in front of you I'm not going to go through it. there is a presentation you guys uh have before you if you have uh any concerns about what the various options are what they look like we can
go through and talk about that document okay I just want to kind of add to something this what Mr. Carro said there's a little bit more to his coming forward than Mr. Mard um who's my neighbor. Hi. Um I believe that this
issue came up that the um realization that we were talking about prohibiting ground floor ground floor residential in the future in the central business district when um the um
what was their name? the people who own um Bell's Beastro and the two story next to it and the Faulners one of the Faulners were applying to resone their Airbnb and Mr. Gret at that time said, "Well,
partly this is because you can't have ground floor residential anymore." And I believe was Commissioner Burton and I both said, "Wait a minute." Uh, when did we do that? Am I right about that? I do. I do. And
that was when you said, "Well, wait a minute. Um the plan was that you've adopted this new central business district and um the next step is to go around and have these meetings and and do the resilience. Um and
also I just want to clarify when I'm looking at this colored map here and it shows the central business district ground floor residential. I mean it shows central business district is it? It goes, it seems to go up on North 17
up to Wedgewood. Yeah. Right. Okay. Would that not include several residences? Carol, it would include um Carol Warers. That would be for years that she'd be able to live there.
She'd be able to live there. And I guess what I'm saying is there's there's quite a bit of ground residential already in the central business district. And um
anyway u I just my concern is that um you know actually in some ways um commercial is not doing so great and residential is occupied and you know keeping their properties up.
So there we are. That's also correct. any existing residential would be legal non-forming uses. They could be maintained and transferred forever, but they would be non-conforming. So,
you mean transferred? Sold. They could be sold forever as residential. Yes. But they but they could not be expanded. And that was intentional. That wasn't the vision. The vision was that that this area that is identified as
central business district become dominated by commercial. Okay. So, and sometimes that on the first floor on the first floor. And now you're talking though that you want to put it behind the homes.
Is that what I'm hearing? I mean, I think that would be a reasonable change to central business instead of just allowing it upstairs. Correct. So, there would still be commercial and part of the building, but why what makes
it just having it upstairs besides behind is the same thing to me. Like, why does it have to be on the second floor? I mean, the whole point is to have mixed use. So you have commercial on the ground floor and then residential and other parts of the building. So whether it's behind or upstairs, you're still
achieving that. So it's just a technicality really in my mind. So I'm fine with it, my sense is the whole the whole idea is to increase density and to have commercial uses and residential uses in the same area. We didn't allow
that at all in our old land development code. It wasn't even allowed. But whereas you had it historically all the way up to now, we had many, you know, commercial places where the owner lived upstairs or even a tenant or something like that. And when we resoneed it all,
we just did not allow that anymore. And to me, that just makes perfect sense. And it's a, you know, it's a a trend nowadays in in all new development is to have multi-use and mixed use. So, uh, to me, it just makes sense. I don't know
why. Wait, I'm not sense to mix. So that was how the central avenue was developed. When we did the historical tour, design the Lucy Hardy house that was right by the bank building
and there was mixed use residential ground floor and top floor mixed in with commercial. Um I So I have two practical questions. one is um doing reszonings and having
meetings and anything to do with planning has a price tag on it. Correct? Yes. Yes. Okay. So, um just a practical question that I have for the budget is apparently
we are waiting for um we are waiting for the property appraiser numbers to come in. Um, planning projects are not inexpensive because they require very specialized expertise that the planning firms have. Um,
I think before we start this project, I think we need an estimate of what it cost. Um, and how we would how we would fit that into our budget. Um, and then I I don't know. I would like to I personally don't see the need at this
point to exclude residential from the ground floor because um I don't know I I think we have other work to do um that also that also costs money but I do think
price tag price tag of when we start this project is something we have to get through that commission we had a couple homes at the time that were already residential you know, that stay what I consider residential and um and and one of them
is the one that she's talking about that the Faulner had that they put into an Airbnb. Okay. That was a that wasn't a commercial building as far as I know. Anybody remember? Okay. It was a residential.
Yes. But but here here's my point and and I don't know if I'm right or if I'm wrong or anybody agrees with me, but to put um residential on the bottom floor and then have your uh business on the top floor because that's something
that's happening at the Harding House right now. I I I think when you start to do that now, you have to you have to look at all the different ways to get people to your store or to your business. uh not just by walking up the
stairs, but uh for example, uh BJ, how's he gonna get up there if he needs to do business up there or he'll never do business up there? I guess I I just it doesn't work for me to have the business upstairs and the resident on the
resident. So that's just my opinion, you know, and it certainly doesn't work for me to have it behind the house, you know, behind the house because eventually that just seems to uh it doesn't remain a business back there
usually, you know, I guess it becomes a resident and the concept would be that that the road frontage would be commercial and essentially behind it or or above it. If you're
you can I'll tell you if you're a person you can confuse that all up pretty quick. However you want to use that piece of property, you probably use it that way. So I I I just don't I just don't uh my my head can't wrap around
doing all that. That's all Mr. correct without us going into the central business district and and and going forward with that because commissioner is correct right now in the budget um we have some there are some concerns there how do we remedy this at
this time what's what would be a remedy without us going forward into the central to enforce the central central business district what remedy do we have because we know I Mr. needs to do that. We've got another property owner, I believe, right in that
same vicinity that is also eventually hoping to possibly do that. Um, I have been told and it would be in the back of that property. If you're intending to postpone applying the central business district, we would
have to go in and amend the GC1 and create uh a code change that would allow that. Problem is that GC1 applies a broad stretch. You know, that's part
of the part of the problem with GC1. is really designed for highway oriented and suburban development. It it doesn't focus on the uh
the the dense sort of mixed use small lot stuff that that you see in on Central Avenue and and close proximity. So, but it could be done. I I also think that if you're first of all in terms of
the cost of doing this, you know, the original intent was to have uh one public meeting, then uh an additional meeting at the planning board, and then a public hearing in
front of the city commission. So that would be a fairly economical way of doing it. We end up having to do a lot of public meetings. Then of course it does get get more expensive. I can work
with the city manager. If you guys do want to do extensive uh public meeting associated with that, we could uh prepare a proposal, a sub proposal and a grant, a
planning grant from state and you'd have to uh you have to make the expenditures and then get reimbursement. We we could do that if you guys want an extensive process of obligation.
I'm a little unclear on the problem that we're trying to solve because Mr. Brett said he wanted to basically make sure the commission was on board with going forward to implement the central business district new requirements,
right, for the new zoning. Okay. But you brought up what seems like a different issue that h says that one or more property owners already are um building some kind of residential or planning to
build some kind of residential on the ground floor and you're saying that you're bringing to our attention that doesn't conform to the existing zoning. I'm I'm asking does it does that conform to our existing zoning? I did not think so. And so what and that's this is
really what's triggered this to even come before us at this time because Mr. Car has had a request um or Derrick's had a request and passed it on and so in doing so well then we need to address the central business district. Am I correct? And figure out what we're going
to do. But my question is we have a request um how do we remedy it? There's none existent certain categories allow for mixed use or for well it allows it allows for up above but not business
but nothing has been resoneed as a sing before we do that we want he wants clearance on whether we can accept behind as well as above because Charles R said we just wanted above matter if I could I think I remember the
discussion when Mr. was here and it might have been before we considered the central business district. Um I think we did have a discussion about people residing on the ground floor of their buildings. I don't remember the context
but we did. And I also remember um I think what the commission originally asked for before we did the central business district was an overlay district. when we redid the land development code and
um Mr. Karat and his firm told us that they didn't like that option and that they prefer the central business. It's a little bit more complicated than that cuz when originally we came for forward we
did have there was the existing zoning and there was an overlay and a lot of what we're doing in the central business district was going to be done as an overlay. If you recall, some of those meetings and discussions were uh
confusing and we were directed by Charles to remove the overlay and present it as a zoning district that would uh have all those requirements in it. That's what we
did. That would be easier for people to understand. Yeah. Anyway, but so now we have a request. So now we have a request and we appreciate that that they that he wants to do things the correct way. Um and so how do
we how do we remedy this? Don, do you have any input also? Well, I guess I would like some clarification as to what problem you're trying to remedy. I'm sorry. I mean that's what I'm here
for all the discussion but what problem are you trying to remelain right now the current zoning doesn't allow for residential at all on the ground floor at all or on the ground floor on the ground floor. So you're asking about changing the
current zoning to permit residential on the ground floor and behind the building. No, that that is not what I originally came forward, but but but that's a potential remedy. One remedy would be to just leave everything as is and let's
amend the existing zoning so that it allows ground for residential. So I'm not a planner. Yeah. And he's I'm sure reading many more articles than I am. My understanding of the traditional approach was for the practical reasons
and Burton reference commercial on the ground floor residential on the top floor. You don't have the the ADA problems that you would have in trying to get access to a a upper floor building. Um most of your shopping if you're have talking about
shop shoppers meandering around they go in and out of ground floor shops. They don't We're not talking about changing commercial res on the first floor behind behind the retail. Behind the retail commercial upstairs.
So you're saying first floor behind the retail. No first floor on the street front. No residential on the street. Correct. That's not what That's not what you're That's not what I understood you to say. I thought you were talking about residential on the first floor and
residential behind the building with commercial then in some places on the second floor. Is that not right? But that's what you addressed was commercial on the second floor. Can I get some clarification here? I've never heard, as far as I'm concerned,
I've never heard any requests to have commercial on the second floor. Maybe there are offices, but not commercial. Well, there's commercial offices. Yeah, it's commercial right there on the in the in the building you referenced earlier. There's a commercial office upstairs. Okay. But office is commercial.
Yeah. I mean there's no controversy certainly with having offices on the second floor of the building really the concept for that Charles was concerned about let's go back to how we got to this what he
was concerned about was uh having a a walkable and interesting and engaging streetscape. Right? So if you have a blank space in the retail, when I say blank space, if you have
retail, retail, residential, people tend to not go past the residential, you know, that stops the flow. So Charles wanted, you know, all the residential
on the second floor and he felt at some point in the future that even the side streets would be all commercial as as well and developed. And so you he that's why he he wouldn't support putting it
behind the building and ground floor because he felt like it would prohibit some point in the future where the commercial development you know wraps around for central avenue down. Okay. So right now, can we take our current can we take our current land
use, our current ordinance? I mean, can we amend that to where you can have residential not on like you said, not on the street front, but in the back of the building? Yes, it's possible to do that.
Can we do that? Is that Don? That's up to you. Commissioners, is that something that we would want to direct him to to prepare for us? I will I'm gonna I'm gonna open right now. Just had some thoughts. Go
ahead. Yes, sir. Yes. I just want to say somehow this central business district thing um particularly I had no idea that there was a desire to push um commercial into our side streets. I think there's probably at least 25% of the people here
including me lives on a side street that I did not know I was targeted to become a commercial or to be looking across the street at commercial. Um it just seems like this has created a lot of problems and yes I would like to hear from the
people who would like to have um the ability to do whatever it is they're planning to do. I'm going to ask Mr. Mr. Would you come forward please? Thank you. Commissioners, my name is Ronald Millard. Ronald, but you make my own run.
Um, I own the property at 429 Central Avenue. I live upstairs at 431. Um, I presented preliminary plan for the area that's behind the hair shop that's there now. It's been a warehouse since I
bought the place over 10 years ago. It's been a warehouse forever, as far as I know, for many, many years. um not thinking that there would be any problem. The only access to that property is on Main Street, the other street. Uh
went ahead and made some plans. Maybe should have checked it out a little bit. Um but you see the work that I'm doing on the building and I thank the commission for the uh for the grant that for the windows has been a great help.
But also um that back side I had windows main windows in anticipation of making that a living space. Now I would not I would not have done that. I would have spent literally to this point tens of
thousands of dollars uh to do that. I have just left it like it is. Now that one and the reason I bring that up, not for my own personal, but as an incentive for people that have properties like that that uh that uh if they can't if they don't have any options on it, then
why would they want to go ahead and put money into something that's not going to bring them back any any financial return? So I just want to share those ideas and um I did present a preliminary plan and u and I know you have your
problems to work out but I want to give you that my side of it and uh and perhaps other people also. Now the property again is attached. There's no access from from the repair shop back to the warehouse. The only access is on Main Street and uh and that's where I'm
at on that right now. But I know you have to look at the overall plan. But thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So, Commissioner, what is your pleasure? Sure. Um, I just want to make an observation because I live very close to Mr. Mard's property. Um, just basically
a block a block away. And my observations are that um number one, there's a need for residential property, particularly rental property. um having having residential property. If you're
talking about making the area more walkable for our central business district, there are a lot of people who walk to businesses that are there. My neighbors walk to businesses. We don't really have a parking plan for our
central business district. Um, we have a lot of vacant commercial buildings, but to me, the more people we can get living in our central business district or nearby our central business district, we're better off. And as well, um,
there's an existing apartment behind the beauty shop that Mr. Millard owns. I mean, Mr. Mard and his wife are res residence is there. Um, they have a rental place behind. And I will have to say um it is it really contributes to
the public safety to have more people living near downtown. Um when there are issues that occur with a commercial property at night where nobody is. Sometimes it's somebody in a residence living nearby who actually see something
or calls the police. So for me in my experience um it increases walkability and it adds to public safety. It gives us more rentals and um it allows these business owners to do something effective with
their property. Okay. Okay. Commissioners, we need to um I want to bring this in for a landing if we can that's possible. So if we need to provide a remedy um what is your what is
your pleasure? Do we direct do we direct Mr. corette to bring back to us. Um I think we have two choices. One is I make changes to the central business district and then we then go through the
process of applying that properties or we make an amendment to the existing zoning that solves this one issue I would refer to business district because GC1 is all over the city. I mean that's our problem is we have one
commercial zoning category for the entire How long are we talking how long of a process are we talking to do this with the central business district and can and I know before properties we talked about properties being able to opt out would properties be able to opt out
yes we'll be able to opt out okay and how long what's the timeline it it the timeline is adopting a zoning ordinance There there will be some minor comp plan amendments to all these small scale. So
that process is a planning commission meeting and two readings of council. So that's uh basically three months depending upon how the meetings fall and
then there'll be uh one public meeting in advance of that. So I would think we would basically make this a fourmon process from a budgetary from a budgetary standpoint. We we understand that to
amend our current would be the um least expensive route that we could take. However, like Commissioner Lorie said, that would also open it up to all. Yeah, but it would be a similar process. Basically the
if you look at one meeting which was the way we originally related with Charles that's the additional expense there there's obviously mailings that have to occur so that okay so I need a motion or I need some a
motion to direct Mr. threat. Um, if somebody wants to take a stab at it, I move that we direct our planning um the planner to draft changes to the central business district that allow for
first floor residential behind the the business. So, do we have a second? I'll second. We have a motion and a second. Commissioners, do we have any further discussion? Yeah. I just want to know how you're going to I mean we we can't even police what we're doing now. We're
supposed to have uh you know we're supposed to have people living on top and we're supposed to have commercial on the bottom. Okay. A lot of people are living on the bottom and and maybe they're living on both top and bottom. I don't really know. But but a lot of people I mean people just do
their own thing. So why don't you just put that in? You can do either or I mean do whatever you want. Basically, we don't we seem to not have a way to police that. Yes. So, um
good that's a good question to to answer unless Commissioner B's question was fully rhetorical. Um I think that part of Mr. Mard's um request is I mean people need to have building permits and
certificate of occupancies, right? I mean the the issue of the issue of people living in a commercial facility or whatever I think that's more difficult to police but just to allow people to get their building
permits and certificate of occupancies and to have a provision in our central business district that property owners can provise a rental behind the commercial. um whether it be for
yourself or someone else. Um but that that seems to be a reasonable request that fits um that fits what's working for the property owners right now. And I I can't address the other um any improprieties that are occurring
in other buildings. Okay. Um at this time, I'm going to open it up for public comment. If anybody would like to come forward and and share their share their thoughts on this, please by all means come forward. Uh I've spoke once. Am I allowed to come in?
You can. Yes, sir. Just something quick. I am in construction. Um and we have to jump through the hoops with the building department. But before they look at it, we've got zoning. They want to look at zoning. uh to do that building is not not
inexpensive and you have commercial backed up to a residential, you got firewalls, got fire ceilings, it's got to be done. So, uh they the building department looks very
very hard at that. And so, as far as the zoning though, we turn our plans in, has to go through building department, they have to approve it. we do the work. They come in, they do, you know, they check all the construction. Um, and, uh, this
building is being brought way up from where it was. What was back there before just would, you know, you go you go get in front of it, that ain't going to cut it. You got to you got to make major structural changes on how this comes.
But, uh, you would be covered on that. I want to say this that you'd be covered. it'd be safe. Uh, as far as the building part of it, uh, the building department again they're before they issue the permits and then
afterwards of course full full inspection and that sort of thing. That's okay. Yeah. Let me say one other thing, Mr. Lisa. um within that same lot right behind my property there's a
there's a hole there and then across the street there's two homes on that side uh on that side on Main Street. So I want to bring that up. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Does any have Yes, sir. If you want to come forward, please.
You would state your name and your address. Dan Dodge 218 South Main Street. It location is a perfect spot for an apartment and in my opinion it looks like it's always been there. Uh this
gentleman has been doing a great job and taking his time and quality in renovating that building and it's going to make a great difference. What a great place to live. I mean, you're right next to downtown. You're not far from the war
for either place. Uh, and it's the beginning of a residential area. So, um, I encourage you to do what you can. Thank you. And it's natural for a village. It will always be a village. Yes. Thank you. Thank you.
Now, wouldn't that be something that that he could do in a bearings of sorts? No. No. Couldn't he take that area that he's got and have a variance to do that because I mean after all
it would be a special use. It would be a special use or special well for special use it would have to be written in as a special use. In terms of a variance, you know, variances
are usually intended to give relief for uh circumstances associated with w with land that is unusual, something that creates a hardship, not not because you're having difficulty sort of fitting something into your
current ordinance. So, let's be variance. Actually, there's a lot of the regulations that prohibit that. Not that that doesn't happen in in many communities. Variances are usually setbacks depend on lot size
of front or backyard. They usually have to do with area and and size requirements, not use. Use is usually a special what you want to cons call a special exception or or whatever. But in order for it to be,
you'd have to put special special uses in your zoning code that would say that X can be done by a special use permit or special exception, whatever you want to call it. You can't have a special exception unless that particular use is
designated as being eligible for the granting of a special exception. All right. So if your answer question is could you amend your code to provide for special exceptions to the central business district and one of those special exceptions could be having residents on a behind a on the ground
floor behind a business by going through the special use pro process which I guess you have a zoa or is it your zoning board that consider planning zoning? So yes you can do that but you have to amend the code provides for it. In other words, only special exceptions that are specifically
articulated in a code can be granted. Yeah. Because if you do it the way you're going to do it right now, that opens it up where everybody can do it. Correct. Within the within the central business district. Yes. So what so what he's going to do is we're going to go forward with the
special with the U central business district and we're going to at the same time we're going to amend as it was currently stated this is correct that we would allow um residential um in in the back of in the back of or the rear at
the rear of a building. Correct. And and I'll bring forward all of them. So, so to make this as most economically as possible, we'll do this all together, right? So that when it finally gets to you guys, it'll be a text amendment, okay?
And then the reasoning because we text if we do the text amendment, bring through the process, then come back and do the zoning, it'll delay this even further. And and part of the delay that we had is
this came up before Charles left. When this when Charles left this was presented to Michael Brillhard, he requested that I not mention this again until he was a very smart man.
Okay. So, we currently have a motion and and a second. Yes, Commissioner Devito. Okay. But the motion is I heard um Commissioner Roy make it and I think I seconded it. That was just to change the
central business district language. Was I right about that, Commissioner? Okay. And then so we're not really voting to tell Mr. Okay. To go ahead. So, do you want to include that in your do you want to include that if you would include that in your in your motion
commission? So, to make the changes to the central business district um as well as move forward with the public meetings for the reason. Well, so I have a question about that for a second. How does it slow down this
change that we would be making to the special to the central business district? How does that slow that down if we don't include the hearings that we if you guys don't authorize me to go forward with the central business? It'll
do that. It'll end up being serial as opposed to parallel, right? Because we'll make the amendment to the central business district. That will require a text amendment that'll go to the planning and zoning commission that will come to you guys for two readings and
then after that you'll decide whether I can go forward with the central business chair. So so that just increases the time frame. Okay. So does this property need to be reszoned in order for Mr. Mo to do what he's
requesting? Yes. Yes. Okay. Sorry. I'll second the whole reason by having this linking motion. If there were an easier way to just slide this in, we would we would have done it. Okay. So, we currently So, Commissioners, we currently have a
motion and a second. Um Nancy, if you please do a roll call for us. Commissioner Burton, nay. Commissioner Moore, I. Commissioner Lorie, hi. Commissioner Devito, I. Mayor Myers, I.
Okay. Thank you. All right. Um, at this time I'm going to take a recess. We need probably about a seven minute recess. Okay, we're gonna move on to the um Derek. Yes, you the FGU.
Yes. So, uh CCMG Dave is not here tonight. Um but he's listening and available if we need him. But wanted to bring to commission's attention that there is a property. It's located up in Sanara area. Um we purchased this
easement. It's approximately about third uh one-third of a mile uh long. It's 50 ft wide. Um it goes through several several residential areas and also into a wetland. Um FPNL currently has a need u for expansion of their infrastructure
and is looking to obtain that property. We pro we we purchased the property back in the 70s for around $10. Um we had uh gas lines on there uh on the property that are no longer in use. They haven't been in use in uh in over a decade. And
um and we do have a liability because we need to remove the pipe that's in the ground there. um uh CCMG and staff are asking for permission to move forward with getting the appraisal on the property and once we have the appraisal uh on the property, we can move forward
with a decision on whether to allow FPL to obtain the property at cost or if we into an agreement, real estate agreement and actually sell the property. Um the value of the um uh of our liabilities is around $40,000 to remove that pipe. Um,
and so if the current property value is above that, we would like to sell it. If it's below that, then we would like to move forward with letting them take the property with an agreement um that would state that they would be liable for renewal of that pipe as well.
Okay. Commissioners, we have any questions? I'd like to make a motion to allow the city manager to negotiate a reasonable outcome to allow the FPL to purchase the easement rights from FGUCCNG.
Do I have a second? Second. Do I have a proper motion and a second? Do we have any discussion? Um, I have a question. Is are we authorizing the city manager or the gas department or is it the same thing? It would be staffed. Dave and I would work
together. Okay. Um, and I do have I do have one question. So, would the gas department be paying for the appraisal? Uh, actually uh it would be FGU. They do have people that they work with that
would get that that uh that number to us for those gas utility. Gas utility. Okay. So I guess what I'm really asking is is there a cost? And you're saying that will be done um complimentary by FG. Correct. Okay.
Any other questions? Any public comment on this? See none. Uh Nancy, if you would please do a roll call, please. Commissioner Dvita. I. Commissioner Lori. Hi. Commissioner Moore. I. Commissioner Barton. I. Mayor Myers.
Um I Okay. So approve. Thank you. I believe the next one is a five. That's the um that's the annual conference of the Florida League of Cities and the voting delegate that would take place on Saturday. Um typically I'm the voting
delegate. Um if I'm in attendance and so if I am not in attendance, Uhuh. Um it's still up in the air. Uh so what I would like to propose is that um in the past I I have relinquished that. Um
and Commissioner Devito has been in attendance and she has been the voting delegate. Um so I would like to propose that if I am not in attendance um that we have that we have a voting
delegate and so commissioners um I need a motion as to who wants to be a voting delegate want to continue with commissioner to be there are you going to be there for the Saturday um if I do
Okay. Okay. Commissioner is our vice mayor. I know, but you're not going to be there on Saturday. So, if you want to make a motion for Commissioner Devito to be the voting delegate information um for the being the voting delegate if in fact I am not
in attendance. I I move a second. I'll second a motion and a second. Any further Okay. All in favor please say I. I. Can I can I bring up something about
that? Yes. Um, you know, in the past we have we had our own line for conference and training. We went here in it this year, right? And I've already gotten over that. Um, that was from traveling to
Tallahassee as well as, you know, other things that I've done on behalf of the city. Um I know not everybody else spends the money. Um I it is more difficult for me to travel. I do have to go up a day early usually and stay
longer. Um, and I wanted to rectify the commission if I would be allowed to go to the the cities conference cuz that money left and I have not registered yet $650 to register and plus $200
plus $20 plus the $20 park or more if you don't park. So it is expensive. It's it is very expensive. But I you know I do find I learned a lot last year at the conference and it was in Hollywood. This one was in Orlando.
It's much closer. So if we look at our budget because it would have to come out of our budget. So what you're asking is if we can approve um and where we have some unexpended
some unexpended monies. There's also under advertisement money down there. There is in the advertising. It seems as if um Steve is not here. He's supposed unfortunately can't be here because he was going he needed to speak to this.
But Nancy as far as categor categorizing everything as far as you you understand everything is in the proper category as it's been input. Okay. So we still have this remaining in our advertising. Correct. So currently we have unexpended in our advertising 436164
um to carry us through the the rest of the year. Um other charges is the 11667. So um commissioners and you would like to say we're looking at the 650 and then you've got the and
how many nights are you? three Wednesday night, Thursday night, Friday. It really takes it takes almost our entire budget if you include it's three rooms. 650, right? Three
nights, I'm sorry. Three nights per room. Um 350, that's 1250 right there. Plus 1310 right there. So you've got 1310 plus your parking. Um so Mayor, I have one question like I know I
must have um I must have a conference fee I have not I have conference fees I have not submitted um and I will have I expect to use my entire 1500 just for conference fees. Are you going are you anticipating
because we talked about this at the beginning of the year that all commissioners be you make sure you keep up with your budget. Right. So, are you going to go over your budget? Well, then actually technically um last year I didn't go over my budget and we
haven't had time to talk about this. Sure. Um because we had I think we had agreed that um the CRA would pay for um the CRA for redevelopment conference and
I think that um my registration fee for redevelopment conference was charged to um the city commission training. Um so they wrote me they wrote me a check um but I have not cashed it. So technically I didn't I didn't go over last year
because I didn't I didn't spend as much as it sense. Um but I I expect to spend the entire 1500 just for conference fees. Um in past years people who are not planning to go and spend their entire $1,500 have allowed other
commissioners to use it. I don't know if that applies to anybody here because I encourage people to attend. Um, like I said, right now I'm I'm I'm unsure. I haven't used any of my
training dollars and was going to allow them to go over to next year because I feel like we're going to need them next year. Um, but if we but if I do go and and as being because I am the president of the North Florida, I do have to um
I have to I have to make an an appearance, right? Um, which means you should be there Saturday morning because I have to be there Saturday morning. Yes. So, okay. Um but anyway, I don't know about the other commissioners, but do we feel
secure and I guess you've asked Nancy um if there is sufficient money left in the advertising charges and then the charges there's money,
right? So, um, we could allocate $1315 from advertising, um, to allow Commissioner Lori, uh, to attend the Florida Legal Studies Conference. I have a motion to do so.
Is that going to cover your expenses, Commissioner Lori? Yeah. Okay. And you're already you're over right now 32357. We just have to make sure sees it from
an accounting standpoint. Um, does somebody want to to make a motion? Um, I will make a motion that we allocate what $1315 from um
the budgeted advertising line um to allow Commissioner Lorie to attend the League of Cities Conference this August. Can I have a motion and a second? Um I just Don for clarification purposes.
Commissioner Lori can't vote on this. I mean I just want to make sure that we if he needs to recuse himself. We need Yes, let's go ahead and have him do it. You know, I think on something like this, it's sort of borderline, but okay.
To recuse himself. Yes. Okay. Can I just say something? Yeah. Um I know that it takes Commissioner Lori a little bit more to to do some of these things than it does for us. And I know
that we're giving 1,500. I stay within my budget, so I don't come begging ever. Um, but I do believe that he he has to have a higher budget uh because of uh his handicap. I think
it's quite it's true. You know, you you it takes you an extra few days and his special needs. Yes, his special needs. Thank you. whatever it is. But but I think I think uh we might want to discuss that for for
next year to put gave in some extra money and then we go okay when we go into the budget we can Yes. Okay. We have any other discussion on this? Well, I just I have a comment to make. I mean obviously we're treating one
commissioner differently than the others. Um but I do want to say a couple things. I encourage every commissioner to get as much training as possible. Um I think I've said before, no one really explained to me the first year I was here uh how important it was and the
League of Cities really um we they've had focus groups and people have said you need to you need to explain it better how important that training is. So I think it's important and um it does when you do go for training it's it takes time. It's it's really a benefit
to the city um more than to the commissioner who attends because it is time out of your normal life when you doing those things that you do for yourself and that you spend with your friends. Um so it's it's a commitment and it takes away um from your you know
your enjoyment of your personal life. It's really a professional thing. And thirdly it really benefits the city. the board of commissioners have this training and have the association whether you get your training online or in person. It it really benefits the city and I have to really recognize
Commissioner Lloyd for the extra mile but he always goes and the extra expertise that he brings to us in several areas um including finance because I think he's about the only person here who went to a really good uh finance training at the first time that
he served as commissioner. So, um, that's just want to share that with all about training. It's it is good and it does benefit the city. Thank you, Nancy, if you'd do a roll call for us, please. Commissioner Burton, I. Commissioner Moore, I. Commissioner Devito,
I. Mayor Meyer, I. So, approved. Um, please make sure that you fill out the proper form before yourself. Okay. Okay. Let's move on to the next item which is the um this is the city
attorney reimbursement fees. I'm sure who wants who wants to Sure. Awesome. So this has to do with the mediation in federal court that occurred to the Peterson case. Um I think the city represented the city. I
was not attorney of record. had a lot of conversations with the attorney of record over the weeks, days, months prior to the mediation, but was not expected to attend. Um, and we got close. They specifically requested that
I come to represent the town, not necessarily in a a legal capacity, but as the town's named representative. Um, I did. And then M. My was there. I think she would tell you that not only I represent the town as a named
representative, but I actually ended up participating fairly substantially in the legal side of it as well. So, um, so requested reimbursement. I think it was a full day that we were there.
It was a full day. It was a full day early to late. Uh, so that's a reimbursement that I uh am requesting and we did run this through the Florida league. Sheila ran this through the Florida League of Cities just to see if
this would be covered. Um, they said they said that it would not be they wouldn't cover that. So that's why that's why we're here today cuz they paid the attorney. They paid but I didn't it wasn't my idea to go. Okay. So they paid an attorney to go and
represent the town. She's very good. and I have participated in litigation with her before and as we came close to the litigation day she personally called and said I'd like you to be there. So I went and it was a mediation too. So he on
behalf of the city had to had to also agree to work at least object in that. Um, don't don't you have uh don't you have an added uh amount that you can use in these types of cases?
I know I know we give you a monthly, right? I think there's a there's outside there's outside legal, but that has to be outside. Well, outside the normal scope, I guess. And I considered this outside the normal scope because I wasn't your attorney. And as I
said, I did not it wasn't my idea to give idea to go and I was told originally I didn't need to go because you're represented by council in federal court. I am federal court certified but I wasn't your counsel and then we got close. She called and said
I think it's already been covered is all I'm trying to say. Yeah. I just wanted to I guess it was just necessary somebody thought it was necessary to put it on the agenda. So it's there. It is just just as as it would be for the additional for us to expend that for addition. And the only other thing that I'm trying
to ask for was how much because I didn't see that on the original. I didn't so I didn't see the bill. It's in the very back. Have you seen it? But um it was Yeah. I quite frankly I didn't see the
bill either. The bill's in very bad. I recorded my time slips, but that's all. I think he handed this to me yesterday. I've got I've got a copy of it. I don't I moved it in my book. I guess you handed it to me yesterday. I didn't even
realize what it was. And I guess um Mr. Holmes, if I could ask. So, basically what you're saying is you have a standard you have a a monthly fee that you charge us. And it's my understanding that um that is we're entitled to 20
hours a month. That's how Bobby Pickkins explained it to us for a certain scope of services and then we would be charged the 215 hour if we go above the 20 hours. But what you're saying is this is outside of
the scope of services that we have contracted for. Well, yes. I guess that's what I'm saying. Okay. Commissioner Burton is 2775. Yeah, I did get that number. Oh, you did? I did that. And the line item we have around we have
$2,825. Okay. And the only other thing, $175. Right. Or the different relating to Okay. Relating to the election, relating to
the Yes. So, um Okay. So, I need a motion. Okay. I'll make a motion. Uh, I I'll make a motion to reimburse our city attorney uh on fees from litigation of
the lawsuit of Peterson versus Crescent City of 27 27. Where did that extra 25 bucks come from? Didn't even include my parking. It did not include his parking
that did not include his parking. Yeah. of $2,775. I'll second. Okay, we have a proper motion and a second. Any further discussion? Um, should we designate those to come from the remaining funds in the outside legal line item?
That's fine. Thank you. It comes out. It comes out of outside legal. Outside legal. Okay. It comes out of outside legal. Nancy, would you please do Commissioner Devito? Hi, Commissioner Lorie. Hi,
Commissioner Moore. Hi, Commissioner Burton. Hi, Mayor Myers. Hi. Okay, so approved. We're going to move on to Inspired Technologies contract here. Yes. Have Bill Joy here. Will you please do your presentation, sir? That poor man been sitting out here for how many hours?
He was here at 5:00. run out. Well, as odd as it may sound, I had a chance to interact with some of your members of the community and being a part of that just to see it and slow
down was pretty impressive. Move here now, don't you? Nostalgia of what I grew up in in Lake County when everyone didn't decide to move forward. Well, um there's a couple houses for
sale. Um one of our realtor was just here. We can get your card for you. No problem. Looks like a resident behind a commercial building. Okay. So, the city manager invited me tonight and I know that back in June of
2021, Crescent City embarked in a contract journey, if you will, where Inspire Technologies will offer manage IT services for Crescent City. And it's been a number of years since we revisited that contract. And when I had
a chance to meet Derek, city manager, um, we had some terms and conditions that changed in our contract that I had to review with Derek. And the things that I want to talk to you today is just to kind of rebaseline not
only the terms and conditions haven't really drastically changed is really based on give you an introduction of Inspire Technologies as a whole. So I'm the vice president of managed services and all the teams that I'm also going to give you an introduction to
tonight that are a part of the support mechanism offered by Inspired Technologies is I want to introduce what you don't see in the background and space primarily in Tallahassee Florida and the teams that you have access to and and in
the way of supporting your day-to-day IT needs. We have a tier one team that offers, you know, general help desk support. I listed some of the applications. Our IT support is really if we can help
you with your information technology needs. We don't say no to anything. Um, we do have an incident management and escalation process for mission critical outages. Uh this morning was a really good example of one where we did have to
dispatch somebody on site. You had an extended power outage last night and it caused a few hiccups and I saw that we were engaged on that at around 7:30ish. So, [Music]
Jacob Suspico, our IT supervisor, he supervisors eight remote support technicians that are based in Tallahassee, Florida. Uh, we have a tier 2 support team that's managed by Zack Cata. He has five tier 2
remote people ready to help you guys with any IT needs that you have. And then we have a director of technology services, Kevin James, and he is part of our tier three support team. And the five engineers that make up that team
over my 25 year IT career, um, those are some of the best technical minds I've ever worked with. And for what you guys have here in the way of business continuity and disaster recovery where the IT part of it is concerned, it's a pretty good insurance policy to have a
team like that available to you guys um on an 8 to5 basis. And if you run into trouble on the weekends, yes, we can pick some of that up, too. The most likely on-site support people that you will see are Justin Tingley,
James Bdett. They are local here and servicing other clients here in Putham County and they will be the most likely people but not the only people that might come on site if on-site help is needed.
Uh the scope of services in the contract um if you have projects that come up there's not a an exterior charge for that. uh the city manager and I have had some dialogue about some things that he wants to accomplish here. there are
projects that are going to come up, but as far as um something like a virtual CIO, project management, the engineering part of it that would go into any of those projects at all, including forecasting and contributing to anything
related to disaster recovery. As far as information technology needs, that is all inclusive in a contract that we're we're proposing today and that you guys are are going to ask questions about. The one topic that I did want to talk
about which is included in your contract are the gaps in security that that I can see that are pretty obvious. Um, you'll see two line items on the contract and I try to footnote them with email security because a vendor gives
some really strange names to these things. One of them is Entra IDP1 and the other one is Defender for Office 365. What does that really mean? Well, you guys are a municipality and the
attack vectors today and smaller city and state government entities Um you you guys are a target and they like to come into environments like this where you don't have multiffactor authentication
enabled on email enable on your VPN connections and those two line items for security will scan email for malicious URLs malicious attachments and allow us to configure the
conditional access policies. that protect you. As it stands today, anybody from all over anywhere in the world can if your credentials are fished, they can impersonate you. We don't have the ability to enforce any geob blocking and they can actually use
some legacy protocols to to to do that. Um the other thing is the security awareness training. Um yes we are proposing no for as a solution. It seems to be the industry standard and
is what our recommended our recommended solution is for all of our clients. We have over 50 clients in it today and if you if you were to go forward with no before what inspired technologies would do for you is manage your email fishing
campaigns. um we can either surprise everybody or we can review it with a small group of people and then send it out. And then included in that is security and awareness training. We have a chief
information security officer that picks up modules that you guys um will rotate on. We can deliver them by annually annually. That is something that we keep up on a schedule that you guys dictate to ensure
that the the staff here city are knowledgeable. Um that really concludes my presentation. I was instructed by the city manager to keep it tight.
So I know I said a lot in a nutshell, but I really want to open the floor for questions. I I have one. Yes. Do you have staff that stays in Putnham County? Do you have any staff that's Yes. at the sheriff's office? Do you still service the sheriff's office?
Correct. We service the city of Palaca. They recently awarded us an RFP there. You guys are very familiar with Marques. I'm glad you brought this topic. Mares is somebody who what I see when you guys
weren't leveraging the contract that you guys saw in 2021. We have a lot of great people that don't want to back up and remind you of the teams of people that you have as leverage within this contract in the way of calling help
desk. We have remote agents installed on all your servers and your clients to where that team could remote in and see exactly what the end users are seeing. Um, Mark Hayes as a part of that RFP is
now dedicated to the city of Blacka. That's an agreement that we made as a part of that RFP. If we need what we call on-site support, the way the contract is drafted right now, it's as needed. And so you have a lever, you
have a whole team of people here that are ready to assist and we absolutely need to come on site, we can. And we do have people locally and those are the two people that I pointed out earlier, Justin Tingley and James. But Mark's
dedicated exclusive exclusively. Correct. Yes. Okay. Where he used to be here at least once a week. Yeah, he did. And and that was um that was a luxury um
that we could afford at that time. But you can't now. Come on, man. Well, well, if I could make a case on the financial side, um, you guys originally signed the contract when open with in June of 2021.
Okay. The cumulative inflation that we've gone through is somewhere around 18% since then. And this agreement is not only below our minimum, but it also doesn't include any rate increases for Inspire Technologies at all. And the
other things that are line items that I pointed out for email security and the security awareness training, they're optional. It is our job and in smart technologies to get the right information to the right people to the decision makers so that you guys can
choose to move forward or not. Those line items are optional and you can keep going the way you are now. But I'm just telling you, you've got some exposure. Can I ask you a question? I've just been going through this contract and um
are the dollar amounts that you're giving us is that is that the yearly amount or is that that a monthly? That is a monthly amount. I have a question if I may as well. So I I I came in of course uh just a month or two ago, a month and a half now. Yeah.
Um, and I promised that I would look at every contract. Uh, afforded a lot to Don. We've been looking at several different things. Um, one thing that was confusing to me was past emails regarding and from Mark regarding the Palo Alto system, which
was supposed to have advanced threat protection, but when we had our meeting, I was told we did not have advanced threat protection. And I could not give the answer to my commission as to why that was the case. and I was hoping you could answer that. Good. Thanks. That's a good question.
So, the PaloAlto firewall that you have in place today, it does have builtin uh URL scanning. It does have built-in and currently using intrusion detection. Intrusion detection is is inspecting
things down at the network layer, the packet layer to make sure that that traffic is not malicious. It's a very powerful tool. Okay. When you get something in from email, there could be an attachment or there could be a
malicious URL. If you were to click on that URL and Apollo thinks that it's malicious, it would sink. Okay. But the bad actors are embedding things in like PDF files today and everyone uses PDF files to the point where um your
firewall isn't going to protect you from all those things. So, is it going to scan the email message and look for detailed things that could be malicious? And that's really the difference between Defender for Office 365 and what it
would do on the email side to protect you and the firewall and what it's doing to protect you from the outside world and internet traffic. I have another question. Yes, BJ. I don't mean to single you out, but I know you stay up quite a bit on
computer IT stuff. My question is for somebody in the industry in most industries like in my in the law industry there's a a level a standard that uh in terms of the degree of protection that you afford
your system beneath which you're considered to be in essence uh let's just say you're you're you're considered to be vulnerable and you're also considered to be uh should you have a breach
potentially liable? Okay. My question is in the municipal industry, in the the governmental industry, what is advanced level of protection considered the standard that you need to meet in order to avoid
liability or is there something below that that is acceptable because the term advanced protection doesn't I mean it's a word and the PaloAlto thing and all that's placed in California as far as I'm concerned. I can fly airplanes nothing to do with
computers. So my question simply is at what what level is our minimum level for being considered u I guess acceptable in protecting the information that comes into the city and in protecting our our
system. There's, you know, talking about firewall. That's the physical piece of infrastructure. Then there's training. And that's the biggest problem that you'll find in cities especially is people opening email that shouldn't be open. And that, you know, so training our employees to realize that this is
bad. Don't open it. Send it to somebody. Tell somebody about it. Um, and be aware of that. That's your one of your biggest problems. And also the multiffactor authentication for your email accounts and that kind of stuff. Um Mark Hayes talked about doing multiffactor authentication back in November. I don't
know why he didn't why it didn't happen because I talked to him about that last year. Um now the state of Florida requires us by Florida statute to do this kind of training and to make sure that everybody has it. We haven't gotten to that point yet. We we are not at the
point where I think that I would feel safe with what is going on. Um we we are we do feel safe or not and I I I don't even know if we several things that I can talk about but
I don't want you to know the meeting but you know I don't know where our backups are and what's backed up and how like I don't know I can't tell you exactly what's out I don't know either we pay for backup we pay for backups and one of those are
you know one of online backups or or something. There's different levels of that stuff like whether we can actually use those right now or whether that's all of our data or what data is backed up. Um whether that's all of our customer data from utilities or if that includes everyone's computers. I don't
know what the answers to that. But I'm not comfortable with it. It's been something that's keeping me up at night. So, we need to do something um more. And my biggest thing is the training part is a priority. So I I can make a compl u excuse me a
comment on your backups. Um the backups today um we're backing up everything on your servers. We are not backing up anything on your desktops. Okay. Um end users for a long time as much as we coach them sometimes this doesn't go
well should not be storing any unique documentation on their local one drive. they should be storing it in you know what I think everyone understands as one drive today your backups are back up locally and
then they are stored offsite in cloud storage it's airgapped and encrypted and that's that's great but we also need to deal with the MFA you know yes in place and training um the things that
we're proposing saying if I could just label the baseline security you have sent something one on all the desktops one is endpoint detection and response that is an old school terminology that is the the really cool and much better
antivirus software that's protecting all your endpoints including your server um then you have multiffactor authentication and your email scanning which is on what's proposed tonight you have security awareness training you got to pile out firewall that in my opinion
is base camp. That's what we have now. Well, you have a Palo Alto firewall. You've got something warrant. You do not have the other items for security awareness training I was talking about or you do not have the conditional access policies for the Microsoft
subscriptions that will allow us to go in and configure the conditional access policies for some of the things that we talked about here. We can do geob blocking. We can do implement multiffactor authentication.
Emails will be scanned for malicious URLs and attachments. And we also block legacy pro what legacy authentication protocols if I may when um when exactly is our actual contract up? How long is is our
contract? techical. You know, there's an implicit language probably in the contract that you signed in 2021 that just says it's probably going to honor you. Um, obviously, if you haven't been
bothered for a contract since 2021, you can tell that Inspire Technologies is focused on technology and we hire technology guys. We're not out there driving business and revenue. So this is something we've tried to pay attention
to. The inflation factor that I talked about earlier is one of the reasons it turned our head. And if you look and I will throw out the caveats in the terms and conditions um let's see
if you look in the terms and conditions the last paragraph of item two shows an annual increase upon anniversary of a contract moving forward 5%. Okay. The other item that I like to point out the terms and conditions
is um the current CPI just Yes. Yes. Correct. It could be more than 5%. It could. Let's hope that it's not because we've just been through some stuff. We've had that that has happened in the
last three years. Yes. Um and then there is I believe it's item I have the number number 11 item uh letter I Microsoft agreement.
Yeah. The Microsoft agreement. Yeah. when you sign that contract because you're a user and a subscriber of a Microsoft product instead of giving you two different agreements. Um we because
we're required to have you sign that Microsoft agreement, we just roll it up all and so I'm trying to bring attention to the fact that when you sign that agreement, you're also signing micro or agreeing to Microsoft's terms and conditions. There is a link that you can go and
review. There's nothing really to sign. There's not a click through. It's just a reference. If I may, at any point in time in the process of of uh working this contract for the last few years since 21, um has there been any of your knowledge a third
party to audit your services or tell the city from another standpoint um an IT service of of what type of service we're getting? other than two commissioners um on on this dice, I don't believe that any of us are IT experts and I
personally don't feel comfortable signing something that I just don't understand and I really would like a third-party company to either evaluate our system that we have now or this contract as well for review before we move forward with it. I think they've
done a good job and Mark was here working. That is now changed, but we're looking at an increase of at least 12 to $15,000. And that's a lot of money in the situation that we're in right now. And I just want to make sure that we're doing the right thing by the people's money.
Is this contract that's before us right now, is it identical to the contract that we have had in the past, but for the cost escalation? Well, the cost for our managed IT services that are probably in the city
today, it isn't going up, but the the basics of what you're getting today um are staying the same because I think what what we did was you guys may have had end users that sat there with a problem and they just
waited around until Mark showed up. What I'm doing is trying to bring awareness to an opportunity for you guys to get help immediately. Um, and one of the things that I did not outline here, but I did share with the city manager is we have a customer portal where you can go and you can open
a ticket with us and then you can track progress of that ticket um through to resolution. you can make notes on it. Um and excuse me and um there's also you can send us an email,
you know, there's an email address where you can say, "Hey, look, I'm an end user. This is who I am. I have a problem." You can send an email and that automatically opens this. And you can also call us. Uh these staff members on the tier one team
um are in the office. I think we're answering the phones now until 7 o'clock and that's Monday through Friday. The contract says 8 to 5. Yep. That's what the contract says and that's what we're obligating
ourselves to and I'm telling you what the availability of services are. So I'm not trying to, you know, I think that you had our contract when I was city manager at the city of black. Mark was there when I was making Steve Black.
I'm not trying to be negative at all. I'm just trying to understand um have we had the training that Mr. Li referenced in the up until this time from 21 until now for our employees, you
know, the training about not opening emails and those kind of things. You had Yes. No. Let me let me Well, let me understand the question. [Music] Okay. Hang on just a second because I
want to get some clarification on a few things. But this I think um this Inspired Technologies as I understand it has a couple of meetings ago proposed the item no before. Is that right,
Commissioner? For the $1,053 for this contract says 27 users and it's not clear how whether that covers all the staff and commissioners. So you um proposed note before it's uh
Commissioner Loy thought that we could um get that training from there there is sources that right. So, Commissioner Bory um brought up the fact that we did get that training. Is it free or free?
It's it's free. Okay. And it's my understanding that um currently we are non-compliant with the state law requirement to be trained. So, that was proposed to us separately apart from signing the contract and it was discussed at that time that we are not
compliant. What I don't understand about this new contract, it seems like the issues are um which products we're going to buy. Correct. There is a line under monthly subscriptions that has one two three
four five items that includes advanced threat protection GCC1. Is that right? Okay. And that those are monthly costs. that comes out to 138425 a month. Okay, so those are monthly costs. Then
the managed service contract that's at $2,200 a month. Okay, so essentially um it seems like the main additional cost is in the additional monthly subscription that you're saying we need
for increased security. Yes, sir. Do I have that right? Yes, ma'am. Okay. So, um I know y'all are it people. Then what's not clear to me is um there's two pages with dollars on
them. And my fellow commissioners, uh I'm looking at page two of eight that has the monthly subscriptions, the services, the annual subscriptions. And then on page eight, it seems to give a monthly total,
right? Which that that's really weird. invasing because it makes it look like the annual charges are monthly. Okay. So that $1,000 is in there as a monthly charge, right? Look at that. That's what I was getting to charge $4,000 a month. Let me get a copy of the contract so I
can see reducing. All right. But um that that was where I was going with that. the pal the um no form is supposed to be an annual charge and then on page eight it seems to be
rolled into the monthly charge with monthly subscriptions and monthly services and that can't be that can't be right but uh what does 1384 and 2200 amount to that would be a monthly amount
You just have to back out probably 3500 bucks. 3500 bucks. You have to back out $3500. So, and I thought um our city attorney asked a very important question. You know, what is the minimum
standard? Um I mean the way the way the contract is presented, it's very difficult to figure out what you're offering that's additional to what we have now. Yes. Versus um what what is additional to what we have now? What do we have now?
And there's nothing on here that shows what we are paying now. Um so we're paying 2,200 for the services. Correct. Wonderful. No, we're also playing for the Microsoft Office and but that is that a service or a subscription?
That's a subscription. Subscription. Okay. That's what I'm saying. So, the main difference is in the subscription cost the the intra um and then the other. So, basically it would come into $43,11
plus the $1,00053 for the um um Daniel. Yeah. Okay. So versus what are we paying right now? We're paying about $30 a month as correct. Yeah. Sorry.
Well, there is an Okay. that it would be helpful to know what the increase is. And then there's also the issue, I think, for the same um service price. You seem to be saying that we would be going to a mixed
on-site remote um program of assistance. Is that what you're saying to us? Well, I'd like to point out that that's the way the original contract was always drafted. Okay. I know that I looked at the contract from 2021, which I happen to
have. Yeah. Um I don't know why, but I have it. Um they both they have the identical language. So to me, this is all very unclear. And I'm not tonight's not I think we've got a lot of
other things, but tonight we still have some issues that we need to go over. I think the question was uh where are we being asked to do? What what uh this is the way I understand it. I think I think Derek, our city manager, would would like to be
given a directive to go out and get other quotes from other providers or move forward with this but but see, you know, get the same uh uh things, right? That that's in this contract. Comparison to make sure that we're that
we're that's what I think. Okay. What is the status of our contract? I was going to say if I understand this correctly, you would have to make a decision not to renew by the 20th of this month.
If I if you're going if the 60-day termination clause is consistent in both, then this states that you have to have 60 days notice prior to the beginning of a new term in order to terminate without penalty. Okay. But what is the term?
A year. I'm saying September 21st. Have we missed the date? No, I said the 20th of this month. But we but the 60-day notice that would be 60-day notice deadline is the 20th of this month. Correct.
And does Okay. Because I don't I don't see that anywhere. Well, so I I don't have the benefit of the contract you have. I'd asked Derek and he didn't have he didn't he didn't know where it was, but I'm looking at this contract. It has a 60-day termination clause in it. So on page six
of eight, each party may turn in this agreement with 60 days written notice prior to the renewal period. So the renewal period was September 21st based on what Derry told me. Okay. Piece of information. What is what is the one that you have before you? What
does it say as far as the termination? Yeah, I saying it has the same standard language. The information I was asking that I didn't have is what is that renewal date? Did we miss it? You know, just like it's auto renew. So, okay. So, in other words, we have time.
Okay. If I had known that 20 minutes ago, I would have not asked questions and I would have said we have to decide. Yeah. We really don't have that much time. Well, so now now the original contract
which uh Mr. Joy was kind enough to provide me just now that clause is not here. It's just say this initial contract request the city will last until 93021. We were assuming was 21st which would give you more time unless otherwise
noted the contract will continue on an annual review basis thereafter. So it I think the contract language the way it's written today in the original contract is very much in your favor. Okay. I would Okay.
If if you told us that if Crescent City chose to move in a different direction for it for managed IT services, we would work with you to offboard on whatever
vendor that you choose. Please know that we're not in any way we're we're not trying to be critical. We just have a fiduciary responsibility. Yes, ma'am. I understand we almost all our clients are
so kind of public sector. I spent half of my life in public sector and we have a fidiciary responsibility to the the citizens to do that and I completely and I'm sure they
question the one thing I would like to say is to your point which I thought was very excellent whether we look for other um avenues or not I think there are questions that need to be resolved about this contract that need to be done
outside of this meeting. So we don't need to decide tonight whether sign is yeah probably need to be a conversation between folks who speak the language which I don't yes so I don't know whether that's you him
well obviously it's Mr. enjoy it. But I don't know who on the on the panel feels there or if you think you need someone outside to help, whatever. I don't know. And I'm I'm not being critical. As I said, I'm not mistaken. Inspired got the contract from the city all three years. I was city manager, I believe.
Um so I'm not I'm not throwing rocks at them either. We we chose them the entire time I was as at as the city platform. Um so I'm not in any way criticizing their services. I think one of those
actually one of those uh years we did uh solicit bids and had a review committee review them and then one of our commissioners is an IT person and also enter into the picture and they were
chosen. So uh again I'm not expressing dissatisfaction but I understand that your city manager is doing what you asked him to do which is take a look at contracts. Okay. Thank you. Um, do we have any other further questions at this time?
I have no questions. I would just like our city manager to bring back and if he could work with Mr. or Joy or whoever. Um, I think we just need a better explanation of what these services are that are offered, what they cost, um,
and what the minimum standard is. And you know, maybe someone at the county would be nice enough to be to give us a little bit of their will. They got 15 folks working. Yeah, they would. Maybe they can we can talk to them. Um, yeah, because I I've
always had a question like our office 365. I mean, that's $24.50 per person per month. I don't pay that for office on my own on my I understand it's a different level.
is for 27 users, which we don't have 27 users. There's there's still a license in there for Christopher Bailey who was removed from office in October 2023. I tried to bring that up a few times. There's also duplicates for Christina Murray as the assistant city manager and
CRA which needs to be combined into one. I don't know. I we've tried to I emailed them to one of your gentlemen or actually Nancy did for me and I got back an answer that we we asked them to stay that way which doesn't make any sense to me. We need to be able to buy those. I
don't we shouldn't be paying for license two licenses for one person. Same person in two capacities used to be there's two finance Steve comp. Yeah. So I think what we're asking for is first off it needs some housekeeping. It
needs definitely needs some housekeeping to make sure that everybody is where they need to be and that those that are not there that we have delete those and we no longer have those that we're not charged for those any longer. And that's a concern that Commissioner Glory is saying is that we've been charged he
feels that we've been charged for for licensing that we no longer have people here for. whether or not you have to keep that um because you have that data on there then that's another issue and that's something that you if we'd like that brought to our attention as well. Okay.
Um so I I do believe that we need some we definitely need some housekeeping. Um and I I think right now the computers are all my understanding computers are all where they need to be as far as up to up to date to meet the the new
requirements for the 11. Right. Yes. Okay. So, with this, we're gonna I guess commissioners, at this point in time, we're going to send it over to Mr. Martin and Mr. Joy and let you all figure it out. Um, and then bring it
back to us. And what is our drop dead date to make a decision? Um, well, hopefully they can send them back to the head. So, I don't see a drop dead date in the original contract. The new proposed
contract had a 60-day clause in it. So I guess my question to you would be will we be should they decide to do something different and I'm not saying they will. Would a 30-day notice suffice? Yes. Okay. So you that will give you until August 30th.
Yeah. So we've got them. So you can bring it back to us possibly in August. August. Okay. Thank you. Commissioner, we all in favor of that? Okay. Thank you. Thank you. You're working with in-house IT people at the sheriff's office, right? And y'all are doing the sheriff's office, but you have they have in-house IT folks
that are working with you. Uh I believe there's at least one. Yeah. So that's a source for us, too. We check with the so and find out, you know, they're and with the county and the city. Look, I don't think the county you don't have the county contract, do you? County is in house.
I'm pretty sure the county is in house. counties I think's got 15 folks in it and one one of them lives here. Okay, cool. Yes, they they're very in house. So, thank you. So, in closing, I know we talked about office licenses. We have too many.
Your term um because you are locked in for a year is up 719. We can reduce the number of licenses. We want to do that before that 719 date. Okay. Okay. So, that's we're putting that on you. Absolutely contact for that. It would
not be. We probably got somebody that we would need to work with. Who would we contact to square up the license? Mr. Joy, thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you for coming to Crescent City and for the time that you've spent here and thank you again for your services. We appreciate that.
Thank Thank you very much. I enjoy my time and like we said, there is going to be a rail soon. We still want you. Did you say you want to give us a discount for the benefits you receive by coingling with our folks out there in the audience?
It makes me want to. Yeah, you're smooth. Okay. So, next on the agenda, we have the blue ribbon committee um and the discussion there because I do believe they are to sunset at the end of this
month. Is that correct? Yes, it is. Hello again. Someone's clicker back. Oh, I see. Okay. Thanks. So, I'm Dan Dodge, 218 of Main Street.
I'm the chairman of Blue Refuge Committee and delighted to say tonight joining me is vice chair uh John Nubold, Nancy Taylor, uh Ron West, Dr. Kevin Jordan, and of course u
uh Commissioner Lori, and city manager Martin. That's our team as you know. Um so I'm before you today because it is time for us to
um move forward and um first of first of all um looking ahead there's a many many great things that we have to do and now is the time
to start. For instance, it is time for us to to um proceed with the school district in
uh having attorney Douglas approach the school board to negotiate an agreement for the property acquisition, some type of arrangement that will allow us to move forward
and to approach potential partners which is vitally important. Um and obviously in getting partners we want to make sure that we we obtain partners
um that are best in the way of financially sound. they have the ability to to come in and um and do as we require. Uh that uh they they have a product that we're
interested in and that it benefits our community. That's extremely important and we want many of them so that we can come back to the commission, review them with you and have you choose to make final decision. as with
everything, but without an understanding with the school board, we're powerless to to go to that next step. So, um the other is what are the best
usage of the properties? Um and certainly uh uh one of the first uh and many comments that we hear that the community needs is a 24-hour emergency care facility.
Um other is community center, youth activities, senior activities, entertainment uh center. uh you know uh there's theater plays, movies, dance sites, bands um etc. uh and many other
possibilities. Um so with that um partner engagement is is again uh time consuming and we need the proper
partners that we can all be proud of and complement what we want to happen at that facility. Um the the other is grant funding. Um and as we've learned from recent
past, it's best to go out a year in advance. So we should start now preparing for grants. We all know that there's going to be competition. But we also through uh Rick Gonzalez,
you know, principal of Reg, we've gotten a two-page document listing many grants resources available. So, our team would like to start applying for those grants now and
working with a grant writer. The other of course is the status of of the of the planet itself. Um and um and that's that's another reason we're eager to to uh uh to have dialogue with
the uh school district. One of the uh things that we talked about in the beginning was the relocation of city calling government to the administration building number one. Um
and that would that would need to be planned out. So with that, I'm here today on behalf of the committee, the blue ribbon committee to get your blessing to move forward on
these efforts. Again, funding uh partnership engagement and communication with the with the school board in order for us to move forward.
In doing so, with that time frame, we should u we are requesting that you ex authorize our committee to serve
through to October 31st, 2026. That's 15 months. The reason for that is the amount of work that I've I've uh that should be done that needs to be done but also it takes us not only
through the grant process but through the the city's own budgeting process. Now, my next um report is
is a financial one. And if I may, I'd like to pass this out. And let me tell you that you can pass. Oh, great. Thanks. Okay. Let me tell you that I've uh can that's two pages for nine.
speed it up and also for clarity purposes. Oh yes, of course. Of course, what we're attempting to do is take good old school and and repurpose
it has been done in Palaca, has been done by our neighbors to the south in Seville in Pearson. And I heard recently um an episode of the Duck Dynasty featured work had been
done in in a community there with great success as well. So um if we look at um at this report um the first page is the property table and
it shows the inventory of of uh the city's properties uh that uh that their acreage square footage that the um the value
um by the property appraisers office and then the estimated um fair market value. And by the way, the ninepage report uh has been submitted uh our city manager has it as well as Nancy. So if
you want the detailed reading, it's there. So as you can see um the uh the total fair market price value is 2.7 million.
By the way that's you'll see in the detail reports that's a that's pretty conservative. Going to page two, have a summary of tax revenue if properties are sold.
And of course, this deals with cash flow. Um, and you can see that it's broken down to uh county, school district, city, and then total of the above.
It shows uh the years 20 to 2025. Um and then um goes to 2026 to 28,
2029 to 33, 2034 to 38 and 2039 to 43. So the combined total of increased taxation of revenue would be two just
under 2.6 million. If it sells. Yes. If it sells. That's right. That's a key key point right there. It is. [Music] Okay.
And with the development in South Puck County and the four laning of 17, we know it's coming. What we want to do though is uh
there of course there are other areas in South Pton that um have great new plans for development and it's important that we take position of the assets that we have
with our historical past and these wonderful buildings uh to be different not to be just a workforce community for a nearby
other community. Are there any questions? Commissioner, do you have any questions? [Music] Um, no. I have um I have some things I'd like to share
with my fellow commissioners, but I question wanted to point out that you you had the sale of the properties in 2029, correct? Is that what it says here? Yes. So,
you know, obviously that's a few years down the road, which you think marketing broker would probably take that long, right? That's right. So, I mean, it's not being unreasonable to think that in four years they can
sell properties. You know, a lot can happen in four years. A lot can happen in four years. Um, I I I would like to ask a question. Um, you are to sunset in July. Okay. That's
when right now that's right now. That's that's what you're set for. Um, would it not behoove you the committee to go out on your own and have your own committee and not one of our committees?
Um, right now you fall under the sunshine. Uh so it's very difficult for you to go out as a group and solicit um do some of the due diligence that you need to do and if you were to do this on
your own um would that not be in in your better interest? Well, I don't think necessarily because I think the best partner is the city. But but and I'm gonna be very I'm sure at some point in time
um we have to be and this is very difficult. It's very difficult for me to say it because I know that there's anticipation for a lot of people for that school. I also know that as we sit here um
and with our current budget and where we're looking at that I I don't know the reality that we can actually I just don't know if we can make this a reality um here with the city. You're going to need additional partners. Let
me finish please. Um you're going to need you're going to need partners. um we at this point in time I am not comfortable putting our citizens in in a that situation to where they're going to
have to bear the burden of the cost of this. So that is a that is a concern of mine. I mean, I would think that if um that that is that's a true concern and when you said is awake at night um
worried about our security, I stay awake at night worried about our finances. Um mayor, if I could, I would like to address um the questions that you've asked um of Mr. because I am prepared to speak to those
and I would like to speak to the very questions that you raised. I don't know how you get my question but the ones you just raised. Okay. Go ahead. Okay. So I have been thinking about this long and
hard and um I think that Mr. Dodge has made a very good report and the committee has made good progress to date. Um I I don't think it's correct to um
and this was done by someone else who came to one of the blue ribbon committee meetings. Um well I think there was a letter circulating in the community that referred to blue rig blue ribbon committee as some kind of separate
interest group. um this commission appointed the blue ribbon committee and when you say that um maybe they should go out and form their own group. They are part of the
city. We appointed them and we appointed them to accomplish sort of the tasks. And what I want to share with you today is um I I don't entirely share Mr.
Dodge's point of view. Um I think that we need to be looking at this in two ways. Um for one thing, this is acquisition of this property
um is a goal of the city. It's in our strategic plan. Um, it's in our 2022 strategic plan and I believe it was Commissioner Burton who actually proposed it to be in that plan.
Other plan objectives become a Florida main street program and promote historic preservation. We adopted a resolution in 2023. We requested the school district to preserve the historic structures on Miller Middle School property. And I
think that was when they were debating whether to build whether or not they were going to make it into an elementary school. Okay. as well. Our CRA master plan that we adopted includes plans for preservation of the historic structures
on the Miller Middle School property and specifically calls for prop um using that property portions of the property for city administration, excuse me, community center as well as a center for cultural and community
activities. So last year we established the blue ribbon committee to do factf finding investigation advisory board um to provide information to help the city with our it's not their goal it was our
stated goal to acquire the property for both and this is what the charter says um and we all have a book that has a charter. The purpose was to acquire the property for both public and private uses in addition to those already
identified by the city commission and a proposed master plan. So to make recommendations uh as to professional assessments that may be needed to identify potential partners in use and funding or reading from the charter and
funding sources revise the city recommended timeline if necessary. So what I see that's been done to date and I think it's been very helpful um several things have been done that are
very very important um wrong piece of paper. So they've done um due diligence regarding valuation of the property and keep in mind we gave them this charge and we have in our strategic plan and our CRA master plan that we want to
acquire for public and private uses. So they did the due diligence. they got um an evaluation of the school district appraisal and it was found that the property for various reasons is not worth what the school district
originally told us. These are very helpful things. Um they recommended a title opinion and also there was research by commissioner Lori. This is a very important point. Um the title opinion by glet title the title search
and we paid $3,000 for that. Yes, I know. Okay. Right. I'm just for the benefit. Okay. So, the title search found that there is uh a portion of the property actually reverts to the city. We have an ownership interest in that. There are
one or more vacated streets. This is very important information and I um brought up the fact at the last meeting given that the city has ownership interests in parts of the property. I
think it is our duty as a city commission um to get legal counsel and find out what we need to do to preserve those interests because as you know if you have interests and you don't take the proper action to preserve them you can lose them. So, this is something
very important that's been identified. And as well, we have the report from Reg Architects, which we voted to get. I'm I'm getting there. I'm getting there. Okay. The good news is Reg Architects. Couple things. They found the buildings
to be in relatively good condition. Um, they gave us a recommendation. Um, they provided a plan for adaptive reuse. And if you look at our documents that we have, um those plans include both
shortterm and long-term costs. It's in tiny tiny little blueprint. Um they identified the historic buildings as valuable assets of the city. So to me, the the important part to
consider here is this is 12 acres in the middle of Crescent City. Everyone recognizes that this is really um a redevelopment plan and we've never said
that the city should retain all of this property forever and ever. I think we have done the right things up until now. action steps I think most wisely to
conduct the proper steps that need to be taken to protect our interest are to follow the recommendations of the blue ribbon committee um and to um get advice on how to protect our property interest and to enter into
that no cost nonbinding on our part uh discussion with the school district. Um I have a cost there is a cost there is a cost it's gonna be gonna charge us okay that okay that we are going to spend more money
okay but it is not the we are not committing ourselves to um individually we are not committing ourselves to um maintain or do the full repurposing
of the school and I I think essentially what I want to remind my fellow commissioners of is it's our responsibility as a city to do planning and zoning to do comprehensive planning, master planning and economic development. That's why we have CRAAS.
That's why we spend $50,000 a year on Main Street program and we do that in support of economic development. Where we are now is we are partway through the planning process and I brought these remarks. Sorry,
Commissioner Roy. Um I brought this summary for each of you and essentially I think we aren't through. We need to do our due diligence. Sorry. And one of
these is for the um city manager and one for the clerk. You want one? um on the back essentially um if you look at this as a redevelopment process
um the city the city is the best entity to drive that process and the back page has a little diagram that shows current ownership is by the school district.
Um the middle stage is ownership or potential ownership investigation of ownership of a city and the ultimate goal is to make sure that the entire property is used for the best purposes
to complement the business and residential areas adjacent and to bring the best um result and funding for the city. I don't know what those are yet, but I think that we're in the middle of a process that belongs to the city of
Crescent City. And I think we are best served and our citizens are best served by letting that process go forward. And I'm particularly concerned that we get the right kind of advice. And um Mr. Holmes left the room. I don't know if
it's because of this conflict or what it is. Um I think it's very important that we get the right advice about the ownership of um the interest that we have and the fact that we have that ownership. We never would have known had did we not have a blue ribbon committee
to do that research. So they've done a great job so far and I think it's um I think we need to go a little farther and do the factf finding um that that Mr. and the committee are proposing. I think
that that will put us in good step with what I said in in no way. Mayor Myers, would you pull your mic down a little bit? And what I hear you better. Thank you. With what I said in no way precludes the
city from at a later date being involved in this. What I re what my recommendation would be is that the committee which we're very appreciative and I feel like they have done what we initially charged them to do that you
step out on on your own and and have your own committee um and then come back to the commission. Um that's just I I I feel that they could that they could do that. I mean, we have other we have other boards, other committees that
that, you know, they're welcome to meet and and come back to us um and and make a recommendation and see where we go from there. But I just at this point in time that would be sometime as an advisory board.
Well, I don't think it should be an advisory board. That's what I'm saying is that they be you be your own advisory board that you form your own board and and and that's part of creating um interests that might be willing to to
pony up the money that's going to be needed. Um, I just at this time, I mean, I just have to say that where I'm sitting and and to expend more money on this at this given time, I don't know that we could do that. Okay. Mayor, what is the money we need
to expend that you We're going to have legal services. You're going to have legal services that you're going to have to expend. Well, we had set an initial budget, I think. Right. So my concern about this is um we we seem to be somewhat
adversarial with the ERC. We charge them. We call for people to volunteer. They volunteer. Um I'm not adversarial. I'm not I'm not saying Wait a second. I have Let me finish.
We have an opportunity to to to disagree. That doesn't mean we're being adversarial. when we tell them okay but when you say you go off these we appointed these people and they I understand that and they sunset this
month so we've got to decide the commission has to decide are we going to go forward with this committee and let them continue right um or behalf of the city and could I speak to the money issue just yes sir
briefly yes sir I'm John I'm at 566 onway 17. Uh the blue ribbon committee only makes recommendations to the city.
We don't go out on our own. I know it's they seem that way, but we've not done that. Commission uh attorney Holmes is a key to this.
He's kept me out of trouble over the years and my business and he's going to do the same for the city, but he's also the attorney for the school board.
So, he has to make a decision. Is he going to be your attorney or is he going to be the school board's attorney? He's already said he'll have to recuse himself and someone else will have to fill in for the school board.
So, he will advise you. And here is what the little ribbon committee is recommending. We did not come up with a contract or a memorandum of understanding. We made a suggestion
and the suggest among the hallmarks of those suggestions is that the city accept any of the property
or all of the property at its discretion. Now, what does that mean? Well, to be really practical, it would probably be the first building number one first
because we could probably get funding for that easiest because it's historical. Other words, you would not accept the property until we had a funding in place to get
that up to speed. Now, how long would that take? A year, two years. Now, what does that mean? That means that the district school board would support that property
until then. There would be no obligation to the city financially. Now, would the would the county accept that? I don't know. But they don't want to keep it. They
can. And that's that's not in their plan. So, the largest partnership we'll have is with the school district. Mr. I I hate to interrupt you, but we're coming up on the 10:00 hour and
commissioners um I'm going to need a motion to extend this meeting. Otherwise, I will have to catch up. All right. I move that we extend 30 minutes. I I assume you understand what I'm saying. Hang
on. I'll second. Okay, we have a motion and a second. Stay up. Um, all in favor, please say I. I oppose. Nay. Okay. So, continue. Mr. Nol. Thank you.
I apologize that I interrupted you. Okay. So, I I think I've made my point. Under these conditions, of course, there would be a negotiation with the city and the school district.
The the district has to get something. We we've talked about that before. And and what the city would get, we would get the property in increments, as I would understand. It wouldn't all come
at once. We could ask for the more modern buildings first, but I think it'd be easier to get financing on the older building. So, there's really no financial obligation to the city under these conditions. And
I think I uh I think that attorneys would recommend this, but because he he is your attorney. He's not the school board's attorney on
this issue. He is our attorney, but he made it very clear to us and that's why Charlie Douglas came into the picture because he made it very clear to us he would not represent us nor the school district because that would create him a conflict of interest. Um and so
so we have Charlie Douglas. So we would have to go with Charlie Douglas and he was finding one for the school board and I believe he did find or he was still working on. They hadn't secured council last time I last time I heard. Well, as I understand it, that's what
that would be the immediate uh thing that would start happening next. Okay, that's all I have to say. Okay, thank you. We have quite a few people. I'm going to see I don't want to go over
10:30 and we and we do have some other stuff that we have to get done. And I and I don't mean to be rude, but you know 10:00 is our is normally when we would cut off. Um I I think we should finish our business.
Um and in this particular case, I don't know what you want to do with this BRC. Uh but it is sun setting at the end of this month and and and moving forward I think for the city. I'm
absolutely with you with the mayor. Uh it doesn't mean that it's shut off forever and ever. U but at this point in time we have to get to a budget to see what we even have for a budget moving forward.
We have no idea at this point. you heard earlier in in our uh talk with uh the lawyer that that we don't know where things are going right now. We really do not know and uh there's a lot of things
coming down from state from federal um that are that are really going to kind of start to hurt uh the community and uh and hurt what local government can do. So, you got to give us some time
here. You got to give us some time to get our feet under us right now. And you know, you want to keep pushing pushing. And the numbers that you're pulling out, we don't have that kind of number right now. We just don't, you know, we have to get more people in to
to help, okay, with taxes and things. Uh we just don't have that kind of budget. And I I I'm very disappointed that you can't see that, you know, you can't see that we only have so many dollars and it
can't be all spent on school. We agree on one major thing. We both want more time to explore to continue to work on this common goal
to unite the city what the possibility is and we have said from day one we are very sensitive to expenditures. We run our meetings extremely efficient. Uh we get a lot done in a short time and
we move on. Um, I'm asking tonight for you to continue us so our life so that we can continue these efforts as a unifying force and perhaps bring in the downtown partnership also to be part of
this. It doesn't mean a large expenditure. It doesn't have to be a large expenditure, but we need to explore the possibility so we can all make a judgment. And I certainly I'm a financial guy a long background. I understand fiduciary
responsibility. Yes. So I'm out with you there. But it doesn't mean that you have to cut us off now. But you know you we put you together as a committee as an advisory committee. Yes. I believe that you have accomplished the
goal that we have wanted you to accomplish. We have the information, the report that you've given us. We have that report. We have a lot of more knowledge than we had a year ago when you first started this.
It it may have to be put on the shelf for a minute while we get our feet underneath our ourselves here in all the city but in Crescent City before we decide okay now we can move forward and
really in order to move forward I still believe that we have got to bring it to the citizens of Crescent City to vote whether or not they want to move forward with it. This could end up being an extremely big bill
or not and that's well or not and that's why we need to explore and get more facts especially before if we bring it to the citizens. It's our responsibility to do factf finding and
partnerships are a huge part of that and can solve it solve those concerns. We don't want to expect the city to go in and take over all 12 acres, just one building and part of one building.
So, we I encourage you to extend our life and allow us to continue our fine work and really it's it's a little expensive this time. We're not going to have a large expenditure of course
without your approval. We have to come back for that like everything of course that's the way it should be. So I thank you for your comments and any other questions of I thank you for your time. So Mr. Dodge
again. I'm going I just want to Would it not why would it not benefit you to form a citizens committee and and and and create you you might get more partners you might get more people involved in it um
and and then come you could always have the support of the city. We don't we're trying to be efficient in our Um it's it's very important that that mayor that that we're unified that we go forward. The symbolism of that is very
important and I strongly believe that uh that we can achieve a great deal in a short time but it is going to take longer than that. So, as we we get information, we'll share it with you. And I propose
that we come back once a month at the uh commission meeting and uh and give you an update. But no, I don't think it's going to be better. We we'll have to have a place to meet. Um it has, you know, ideally would be a large place
that we can invite others to come in and join us. Um I don't think it's the best situation, but thank you for your thoughts. Okay. There are there are there are other meeting places here in Crescent City. Commissioner, nothing is fine as this.
Yeah. Um I have to say I agree with Mr. Dodge that um a a private group would not have the same um clout. They would not be representing the city. They would be representing themselves. And I think
we need to consider as a commission that's 12 acres in the middle of town. And we, if you will take the trouble to read my memo and read the diagram, we need to treat this as a redevelopment
project. We need to have people who are loyal to us doing an investigation for us. And um I specifically want to point out um the BRC has not accomplished all the purposes that we gave them because
it was to identify potential partners in use and funding and funding sources. That has not been explored and I think we we owe two things to our residents. Well, really three. Um if we don't have the BRC continue to
meet and explore those potential partners and use some funding and funding sources um we will not be furthering our goal of protecting the historic interests. We will not be furthering our goal of making sure that economic development benefits the city
and the neighborhoods around it. We did not know when we first established BRC what was involved in this process. We still don't know. One of the purposes, one of the duties of the BRC is to revise the city recommended timeline if
necessary. They've made a recommendation to us that it's time to revise the timeline. Um so I just I really what I don't understand is two things. one, um, how do we properly protect our interest
that now exists in the property if we do not go forward and get that proper advice? Are we going, if the school district finds a buyer for this property, are we just going to let Cypress Street and potentially Myrtle Street just go? We're not um
Well, we there's a there's a clause in there. There's a there's a clause. There's a revert clause that would have to they would not have to title. So it would have to come back to us. We'd have to figure out what to do with that regardless and the property in the middle. Well, I mean that that's there. So
we need to get advice on that. And my thought is better to do it sooner rather than later. And in fact, it occurs to me but the reverber says this is where we have a problem in having an attorney with a conflict. I believe the reverter
clause says it reverts when the property is no longer used as school. Okay, that's what we need advice on because it hasn't been used as school for about 3 years. And I'm not a real estate attorney, but I do know if you don't
assert your interests, you lose them. I think we need advice on that because it is no longer used as a school. God bless you. That's been brought to our attention. So, I think there's more work to do, work that will not cost money, and I
think it's our responsibility as a city, which I've said work. So, I'm going to I'm going to one of the complaints I've gotten numerous times is that it's very difficult for them to operate because they're operating they have to operate in the sunshine just like we do. So, they have to meet as a
group. They can't meet. Um, so if they're going to go out, if two of them are going to go out and try to to find philanthropists that want to invest in this. Um, that's very difficult for them to do. So, what I'm proposing is that
this would allow them to be able to Okay. to Hang on. Hang on. It doesn't Hang on. I don't want to Let me Let me just say this. Last time, um, 40 minutes we we spent on this and we ran out of time.
So, we still have other business here. So, I've got speakers, but we need to let speakers, you've given us your email, your on your memo, and I think all of us should read it and digest it. Um, at this time, I'm going to open it up for public comment if I can, please.
So, Mr. BS, there's um Mr. BS asked to speak. Um, Nancy, if you would please, Mr. BS, we do have a typically we have a three minute. No problem. Thank you. So, my name is uh Rick Bubbles. I live at 109 Sherways at
Florida and u I would like to express my appreciation for all the work that the blue ribbon blue ribbon committee has done. I think they're the most qualified people to do that kind of work. I think that I'm biased and my hats off to him and I
would like to uh ask you to continue letting them be involved with the acquiring this school because my take on it is that you know the meeting that you
had a few months ago you were very concerned about the cost and you mentioned that tonight but I'm an architect and a contractor and the way I would look at This is you just have to do this in phases. You have buildings that are in good shape means take the ones that are in good shape,
you know, renovate them a little bit and then rent them out or use them and then take that um you know that income or savings that you've that you have and apply that toward uh you know the
maintenance and insurance of of the building. And I read somewhere, I I was trying to find it in the blue ribbon committee report, but I think it was like $79,000 um per year to um you know, insurance
and maintenance. You just spent the $120,000 on an architect, you know, on the same project. So, I mean, you can come up with the money if if it seems like, you know, it's there. It just you might have to be creative. So, my
suggestion, like I said, is to phase it out. Take a building, renovate it, um, you know, move on to the next building, a partial of the building because the alternative is somebody's going to buy that property and they're probably going
to put an RV park there, you know, another big RV park that you don't sell. We have to and then you have just, you know, we're just, you just had a meeting tonight about another RV park. You want to be known as the are they capital of the
world? No. You know, they're going to be in here probably asking for exceptions on uh you know, wetlands or uh density or something like that. Take control of the city. You know, you have a golden opportunity
and great people working for you. Take control of the destiny of Crescent City. That's all I have to say. Thank you very much. Thank you for your time. Do we have any other speakers at this time? If you would please come forward and please hold. Yes. To volunteer. I'm filling out.
You're fine. You can come forward. My name is Ray Solomon. I'm a new resident in the community. I live at 334 Crescent Lakeshore Drive. I've been a couple of these meetings and it has been graciously allowed for the
Blue Ribbon Committee of which I think to move forward. What has not happened is a clear form of authority to do it. First time I was here, there was a long discussion about a letter just a basic
letter of understanding that we could present to the school board to where we knew where they were coming from and so on and so and there was we got off in the weeds for 45 minutes on a contract. It's not a contract. It's just a memorandum of a gram of understanding.
But if we do not have that and the backing of the city uh commission, we are spinning our wheels and flying around in the wind. That's number one. So we have to have the authority to be able to talk to people to get them to do
something to work with us. Number one. Number two, we live in a fundamentally different world today. There is a tremendous amount of money that has been allocated for rural hospitals and clinics. I never even thought to research that until time. That's what
I've been doing in the back. There are all kinds of brand new things that are coming that we know nothing about because the whole ground has changed underneath us in the past six months and it's going to it's just begun. So to
walk away from allowing people to speak with authority on behalf of a jewel in the center of a jewel city, we're going to end up with a bunch of section 8 lowincome housing and destroy the place.
And anybody who thinks that we're going to turn the main street into something romantic doesn't understand that semi-tractor trailers are required to come through here. So it provides a logical and beautiful potential
secondary sort of center of town that could be a real focal point for genuine community to attract families to attract fun and cool ideas. You know, the first moment I heard this said, "Wow, that's a
great idea." And yet there there I think number one, I think that we've tried to do it as much as we can. I'm not involved in it at all, but I'm from a side. But I really truly believe that to extend the blue ribbon committee is
in our absolute best interest. So we can turn over rocks. But we can't turn them. I got a lot of political friends. You can't call them up and say, "Hey, I want to do this in our time." But if you say, "I want to do this and I speak with the city. I speak with authority with the city of Crescent City." People will pay
attention to you. And so I I don't know why everybody's running away from this, but but I think it's tremendously ill advised and we will lose the opportunity to save this building and improve our community. And that's a heartfelt comment. Thank you very much for your time.
Good evening. Good morning. Angel po lake street and first of all I sat here I haven't sat here meeting like this in a long time here and I must tell you on both sides you know I'm saying yes I'm
talking to everyone because we are all entitled to our opinion we express those opinion and try to come together as one firstly the school was here when I grew up here I was not allowed to attend that school for obviously reason we won't go
there, but we can attend it now. And since I've been here, I've been involved in many programs in that school. Uh the principles of the girls mentoring group and all types of things we did here. We did the first very large black history month event. Had people come from all
over the county. Who is that lady? That's what it was all about. But I just moved here. But anyway, since I was very very involved in school, got the school. I make this very brief. Last year, we didn't have a place for Junth because
it was so hot and nobody wanted to attend. And we had this famous actress uh come to uh present her play, The Fanny Liu Hmer Story. And the school offered me, we talked to
school board. All I did was pay for the insurance and the janitor. And that play sort of reignited interest in the school especially the auditorium which is very very important in the arts. So I'll say that to say it has
many many great opportunities u for the community and I think what I understand what you guys are saying is that it's not that we don't want it we cannot afford it. So come back to us with a
plan to demonstrate that once you acquire the building, you're able to maintain it. That being said, I think the board will be going back to the drawing board and pres giving you the information that you need and then we can start from where we
are. So am I correct? It's not that you don't want it. It's just that you don't want responsibility. I I'm only one person. Not you. I'm with you. I'm looking at you, but I'm looking at you. Look at me. I'm only one person. Commissioners. Okay.
Thank you. You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Uhhuh. Okay. Do we have any other speakers at this time? Yes, sir. Need to fill out a form. No, you can just come forward. My name is Will.
I live at 104 North Park Street and I'm going to be in the minority of this group, but I don't I'm in favor. I agree with uh
Mayor Meyer's comments and uh Commissioner Burton's comments. I don't think the city I think this needs to be revisited. I'm in favor of it being sunseted
this month and then it can always be revisited later once we've got our budget issues, got our feet on the ground, know what we're looking at. Right now, I don't see
any way that the city can afford to do this now. And I also don't see why you can't formulate a private group to do these very things that you're talking about doing.
And uh if you get to the right people, whether it be attorneys, developers, and so forth, and you can have some cooperation with
the city once we're in a position to know what we can and can't do. and the fact that it's not going to create a lot of cost for the city. I don't buy that argument because when you're you're uh
hiring attorneys, outside attorneys for this type of thing, the attorney's fees add up very quickly and we don't even know what our budget is now. So, I am not against the
the uh redevelopment of that that property, but I think it's premature. I think this group needs to go out on their own and formulate strategies to
where we can maybe eventually somewhere down the road form a partnership. But for the time being, I think we need to take a pause and then it can be
revisited later. So I would be in favor of it being sunseted this month and then the issues can be addressed later. So thank you. Do we have any other speakers at this time?
I know we have seven minutes. I won't take just a minute. I just have question. I understand the city. I just have a question. First of all, um in the plan, city hall starts to move to the school. It's part of the
comprehensive plan. Okay. The main old building down there is in excellent condition. It's been through storms for 100 years. It's never blown off the roof. The wind has never blown out. It doesn't leak. This building is worn
out. It leaks. I think it's been leaking for a long time, as long as I've been coming to these meetings. And yet, y'all are getting ready to spend thousands of dollars to rehab this building. So, I just don't understand the logic of that when there's a perfectly good building down there that you could access. It's
in your plan. That's all. Bravo. Thank you. Okay, commissioners. Do we have any other speakers at this time? If not, I'm going to close public comment.
Close public comment. Can I just make one comment? Yes. Um, you know, the problem with sending out the BRC on their own or this idea of a public private foundation or somebody else taking it is not it's just
not going to start. It's not it's a non-starter. the school district has already dealt with the department of education in the past and they have given a piece of property to a nonprofit and then that nonprofit sold it at a later date. Um it started in an IG
investigation from the state and stuff like that. They are allowed to transfer property to other governments. Um that is something that they don't get in trouble for. They've done it before. They do it all the time. Um it is something that of course has to be
brought before the school board. Um and that's something that takes time and the whole process takes a long time. This is something that you know this that this moves at the you know the speed of the glacier when you have two governments that are working together. Um and to
stop this now it just means that we have to start everything up again at a later date. And this school's already been closed for 4 years. It's already, you know, become a black hole in our community that is basically just bringing down property values and it's
just going to get worse. And I just keep thinking about Central Academy in black and if you've seen a picture of that and it's over the blue court, you know, that building just decayed to the point where it burned down and it's just a a halt of nothing anymore. And that was the first,
you know, certified uh high school for um African-Americans. And that is now just a black hole in black. But, you know, whether we do something with the school or not, it's going to affect our community and will
continue to affect our community. And all I think that the blue committee wants is that try and put us in the driver's seat and also make it something positive for the community. And I can see it. I have vision. I can see the possibilities. And I think we all a lot
of us can. Um I don't understand why we don't all get on board with this because they're basically the BRC has been, you know, working for free for a year to make this happen. Not for them, but for
the city, and the community, for us, because we asked them to. Um, and I just don't understand what the heart is and letting them continue. Can I three minutes? Yes. Say one more thing real quick.
You know, you keep telling me that boy, this is on a comprehensive plan. On a comprehensive plan. You know, a comp comprehensive plan is a vision. It's a vision of the future. And the reason this made it to the to to our on our
comprehension plan was so that you guys could let us look at the future and the future right now looks like it's a little too expensive. But just because it's on the comprehensive plan, okay, it doesn't
mean that it has to happen. So, uh I I just want to kind of make that clear, but we want it to happen. We're just saying it's it's not the right moment at this time.
It's the last moment. Mayor, I've got two minutes in the Okay. So, I move that we extend this meeting until 10:45 to accomplish the rest of our business. We need 30 minutes.
30 minutes. Okay. So, we have a motion and a second. All in favor, please say I. I oppose. Nay. I'll say nay, but I'm going to say one thing. Okay. I think that we should close this part of the meeting.
That's what I'm going to do. Thank you very much. I'd like to make a motion to close the discussion on the BRC. Take this time. What can we do? You can make you okay? Yeah.
Okay. Um, so commissioners, y'all, you're going to make a motion. You've got you've got the BRC. They've asked you for um additional time. They've asked you for 18 month. Is it 18 15 months? 15 minutes.
15 15 more months. And then we allow the DRC to continue to work for us for the next 15 months or until they are or until an earlier until an earlier date if all the purposes have been accomplished.
I apolog Well, I would second that, but um my question is are are we not going to meet again before the end of the month? Um yes, we just we are going to meet again before you can move it to the special meeting
that we're going to have when we have to do our military. If you would like, we can do it then. Um I I I would I personally go ahead. Yeah. Um I would like to um table or
pend like to table or pend a vote on this issue. It is very important issue. Um I've raised some things that I think we should consider. Um and I just think we should do that. I we need to take the
time. Okay. I currently have a motion. I I have a a motion. Um and I I if I don't have a second, we'll have a motion that dies for lack of a second. I have to address the motion first.
The motion is 15 months. Did we get a second on that? No, that's what I'm saying. If I don't have a second, then we it's going to die for a second. and then we can go forward with the discussion. Okay, we don't have a second. So, that motion at this time is going to die for
lack of a second. Commissioner Devito, if you want to continue. Um, are we moving to the next item on the agenda? No. Did you want to I thought you wanted to bring this up and then Well, yes. To bring it Okay. You're saying you want a motion to bring it
back? No, I mean that's up that's up to you. I'm His his motion died for lack of a second. Yes, I think I think this should be on our next available agenda. Okay. We have do we have Are you making
a motion? Um, no. I'm just saying I think it should be on the next available agenda. I'll make a motion that this should be on the next available agenda. Okay. I will I will second. I had a motion and a second.
Okay. So, we have a motion and a second. Okay. Any other discussion? Question. Yes. How does that play with the sunset because they are set? July 30. Well, for one thing, we never get our next agenda meetings August.
No, we have to have the village meeting. So, the special meeting special meeting has to be at our special meeting. Okay. Yes. Okay. So take I'm as soon as y'all are done discussing this Nancy if you take a vote
for us please. Commissioner Devita. Hi. Commissioner Lori. Hi. Commissioner Moore. She's in her. Do you want me to skip you? Come back to me. Come back to her, but she has to.
Commissioners, I made the motion. I'll say yes. Okay. Thank you, Mayor Myers. Hi. Um, and I would ask that somebody um reach out to somebody from the blue
ribbon committee if they can reach out to those in the um J register and hang they both are very involved in that and that was a private entity that did that secure that school in so reach out to them and see how they went about doing
that. It was a privateity that also bought the school in Galactica. I I don't know about that. I just know about the one. I really appreciate that. Thank you to everyone that has this and we're going to continue on with
ours. So now we have to go to our budget workshop scheduling. Everyone please get your calendars out. Mr. Currently, right now, we had a tendency date of July 25th for a budget workshop for our financial director.
I'm gonna ask everybody um please, we're still in meeting if you would just take your conversations outside. Thank you. Yes. So, July 25th was Thank you. Apologize. Thank you. [Music]
I'm sorry. Thank you. The budget workshop was set for tenative date of July 25th uh for our finance director to present the proposed general fund and the CRA budget to you all tenatively. We had it set on for July 25th on Friday.
Okay. What does everyone schedule look like on the 25th? I don't have my I I didn't have it I don't have it in my calendar. So discussed and we didn't decide on it changed I think to the 8th
and we that's when we had a res. Okay. So I have a question when we brought this up when we reviewed the 10th schedule um you said that you did not care for meetings on a Friday. Um, and
since then, um, I have been asked by my relatives in North Carolina, one of whom is very elderly, um, to go up and visit them. And that weekend is So you're out. So that's that's easiest to say you're you're on that weekend.
What I was going to say is if we can do it before Friday the 25th or after um, what about the 24th? What does Thursday the 24th look like for everybody? We have tree and garden at 2 o'clock, right?
Can the 24th was a Thursday? Yeah. Can we do Wednesday the 23rd? No. No. Wednesday. Who's available on the 24th? So, you have tree and garden at 2:00. So, we could meet at 10:00
and 24th. You what? Not the 23rd and the 24th. Okay. Um, then let's go to where are we on the 21st or the 22nd? Monday.
Monday won't work for you. The 21st. Okay. How does everyone schedule work for the 21st? I can do that one. Everybody can do that on the 21st. Yeah. What time? Oh yeah.
Um I'm I would probably say is this could be a long M. Martin, how long do you think this meeting is going to be? Um are you How much are you going to try to cram in there on the budget? What time will Steve be ready? I would say at least two and a half to three hours.
So three hours. So if we were to do it at say 1:00 on the 21st, that'd be fine. And then we're going to have our special meeting. I'll order pizza. So, and then we'll have our special
meeting. We need to schedule it. So, our special meeting is immediately following on that on that on that Monday. On that Monday, village has to be set before August 4th and blue ribbon committee.
Blue ribbon committee. Um, okay. So we'll have the special meeting immediately following. Okay. No. What? Between that. Yeah. Come on, guys.
No, it's about this. It's about what time we have to leave to go to the next week. Okay. 21st. We also have another tenative meeting set for August 1st. Um we were of course going to talk about
the the deadline for the proposed mill rate um to the property appraiser the budget workshop was going to basically show you um or present our proposed natural gas water and wastewater budgets. Okay. Okay.
August 1st Friday. We don't have a time set up for that. It was just attended the date set. Well, let's move it. Can't do that on your anniversary. I I don't know who's It's not one of the big years. It's not one of the big years. I think we're fine.
It's a big year every I think I just can't. I'm sure he wants to take me out to a huge dinner. But let's pick a different stage. July 31st. July 31st. You want to do July 31st. Does that work
for you? Does that work for everybody? July 31st. I had said earlier at the last meeting. The last time we talked about that, I didn't want to do it on the first. Okay. July 31st. Okay. Okay. And what time do you want to do that one?
One works fine if you all are okay with that. Okay. And that's going to be the second budget meeting. Yes, ma'am. That's going to be the budget for natural gas, water, and waste water. Yeah.
Um, mayor, I have one more thing to bring up as far as workshops or meetings or whatnot. Um, when we had the workshop on the future of the gas department. Um, I was looking at the minutes and it said, um,
for the rate study, we needed to discuss that at the July meeting. So, are we going to move that to the August meeting? Probably because we're going to I don't know, Mr. Martin, if if that's something because um I I think as they're working
out their budget right now, you weren't ready for this one. Correct. Uh I'm I'm going to have to wait till I talk to Steve and see exactly where we are. This was just to get the lady from FGU to do the rate study.
I'm sorry. the the rate study. Okay. That we had asked her to do at the workshop, but no one wanted to give you direction to do that there. Okay. We needed to take official action to do that at a meeting. Right. So, I guess my question is, which meeting
should we if we're talking about authorizing the rate study, should we do that on Thursday the 31st when we do the budget workshop on our um that or you can do it on the 21st? Why don't we do it on the 21st? 21st is fine. And I'm sorry I didn't hear you. I was reading
something when you were discussing that. So I was still thinking I said we'll do it on the 20. So we'll put it on the 21st. Thank you for bringing that back up. Okay. That's I guess that's not too much for the 21st because the 21st is going to be a bigger more involved workshop.
Just bigger part of the budget. Just each week that each week. Well, I just I want us to have sufficient time and it seems to me that it would just we would give it enough time. I don't think that should that should not take that much. That's a matter of
us just giving it directive. We I think we've already agreed we have to do that. That's just a matter of us giving him directive. So that shouldn't take All right. I say five minutes maybe 30 minutes. Okay. Okay. So what else do you have?
That that is all I have on this annual budget calendar. Okay. I did not have anything else on there. Um the other items here are going to be uh other meetings and and uh they're not workshops. When does our budget need to be finalized?
September. September. September. Yes. We have September 2. We've already got We've already got those dates. Those dates are already set, right? Because I think for at least one of our hearings, we can't be on the same
date as any other entity in the county. We all have to be separate so that every citizen has the opportunity to go to every single one. Right. Right. So that's all coordinated. Thank you. Okay. Okay. Um Okay. And so that's the 11th and the
25th in September. And we already have those dates. We've already got those dates. Yes. Okay. So we're good on the workshops. Let's move on to the Oh, you're not. Yes, ma'am. What you got? I want to take one second. Yes, ma'am. Absolutely. Why you all workshops?
Um I don't know any other time to bring it up. I want to bring it up for a while. Okay. Okay. So, I want to know if we could schedule a workshop to help us work on advertising especially these meetings and everything
because a lot of people are not aware. So, um, not only that, um, I would like for the commission to also think about, say, if I'm an educator, you know, think about ways that we can join in our kids. Um,
make them see what we're doing. Maybe um, have a internship for the summertime, that kind of thing. Um, bring in more of the churches and different activities that's going on in the city so we'll know what's going on. So, is there some way that we can set up
a workshop to discuss ways to bring in more community outreach for Yes. sort of like Yeah, that makes sense. I just have one question. I didn't hear I didn't hear the very first thing that you said, Commissioner Moore, about advertising.
Advertising and meeting anything that goes on in the city. I people tell I didn't know anything about that. I Whatever. I'm with you. I I agree. You got to meet people where they are. Sometimes it's paper, not it's not all the flyer. It's
It is something that we're going to be looking at because we have had discussions on starting revamping our website and that's going to be included on the website with calendars and and everything. Yeah. The other thing, Charles, you should use the utility bill
everything in that too. So that in the city, but we would also like to reach out to Alex. Yeah. Involve more people because I've been going through quite a few things that I know there should have been more people
only if they knew the timing or whatever. So, I think this would be great for us. Well, let's set up a workshop. Let's get a workshop date for that. Okay. Um we do ourselves an injustice in many ways because we allow we provide
this through um YouTube and a lot of people like to watch this meeting from the comfort of their own homes. I prefer I wish I would we had up 14 this evening already watching 14 you could have had here in
the office. So, you know, we we do do ourselves a disservice in that regard because a lot of people um you know, or they can rewatch it um you know, at a later date and and they've gotten used to that luxury and so it would be nice
to be able to get more people here so we get more opinions. So, I agree with you. I agree with you on that. So, we'll set that up in the workshop. Can we do that? Let me ask you this. Can we get through budget and can we do that in August? Just wanted to put it out there because
I think we have some other workshops that we need to include that into your budget. So if you'll make note of that. Okay. So with that, um I I'm going to need a motion. We haven't taken a formal
motion on this. We've had discussion and we've and we've said it, but we haven't done a formal motion for the August 12th to move our regularly scheduled meeting from the 14th and August to August 12th. So, can I get a motion on that? I move that we reschedule our regular
August meeting um two days earlier on the 12th of August instead of the 14th of August and make sure that's advertised appropriately. That's so we can attend so annual conference. I'll second. Okay, we
have a proper motion and a second. All in favor? Do we have any discussion? All in favor, please say I. Opposed? Nay. Okay, so moved. Going to go on to the city manager report. Does anybody have any questions? I I know
Derek, you included in that. We are are Thank you. We we received our um legislative appropriations. Yes, we did. So, for our fire department and for our for the um
treatment. Um so, um in doing that, I want to go ahead and send you I propose I didn't send this because goodness knows I didn't I didn't Huh? We have copies of my letter. Oh, okay. So, you already have copies. Okay.
Um I haven't sent it yet, but I just wanted y'all to know that we prepared that and thanking and thanking both Senator Lee and Representative Saff for um spearheading this. We were the only municipality got that got legislative appropriations in
county other than the county itself. It doesn't matter. It's still better than if you could have seen the veto. You saw the veto list. We were We did something veto. What? I don't know how we did that.
It wasn't in the budget. So, I don't know how he did it, but we got money. That's important. It didn't make it didn't make the final budget. So, I don't know. It didn't make the final budget. It was on his list, which is interesting.
It's just an error. Okay. Do you have anything else? That I don't have anything else. If you have any questions in regard to Do you all have any questions on the um man city manager? I did provide several exhibits. [Music] I would say once you get you know once
you get acclimated and your feet wet that people um you know the residents really did appreciate those updates in their in their monthly in their utility bills. Okay. So that's something that just an abbreviated
an abbreviation and also actions that were taken. Okay. So that was very um I've gotten more and more comments from that from residents. So any other questions of Mr. Martin? Okay. Let's move on to um our city
attorneys. So, I'll take item one in conjunction with a request that the city manager made of me for me to discuss with you your options for enforcing your city ordinances with regard to this the
homeless issue. Um, talking to Captain Ushray, um, the county is looking into some accommodation for
homeless folks. Um, but I don't know whether that's going to make any any real headway. So with regard to the issue of homeless folks u sleeping in public parks and so forth as you know the statute basically
is not self- enforcing. It says that you shall not permit it but the pro process involves someone making a complaint to you saying that you are permitting it then you have a curative period only if you don't cure do they go from there. The
first I'll talk about the option that I think that the sheriff's office is prepared to implement and that is if you choose to go that route they will issue a and if you direct them to they will issue a notice against trespass to folks
that they find sleeping in the park. If they come back and find them again they will make an arrest. Um they will be arrested for trespass after notice. Um that's a state statute. It be processed through the state court system and you know
it basically is a exercise of the state statute to enforce your desire that people not sleep in the park. on the broader picture of your ordinances. Um, I've contacted the state attorney's
office, the clerk's office, the sheriff's office, and have uh essentially got the following information for you. You can establish a vehicle for enforcing your ordinances. You're going to have to
budget for it. The clerk's office will charge you $10 for each ordinance violation you file. And then after a hearing, uh, whoever loses that hearing will pay a $40 penalty. If that's you, you pay $30 penalty. If it's the alleged
violation, the question then becomes, who's going to hear it? The city and county judge has determined that she's not going to hear ordinance violations. U, there are some there from the city of Paca right now. And when I say that, I
guess that she's I'm told that she has um contact with the court administrator and there's some conversation ongoing between her and the court administrator, but as of right now, she's not hearing them. Um they're
not being scheduled for hearing. There is conversation particularly from the city of Palapka um and a proposal that is not has not been officially tendered that the municipalities
basically contribute to a fund to hire a separate hearing officer. Um now how that position will be funded. In other words, if they're going to fund it based upon just a uh divi by dividing the cost up among those communities that want to
participate or if it's going to be on a per ordinance basis that there's been there is no framework. It's just an idea has been floated. Kind of like a magistrate. Kind of like a magistrate. y'all would pay for it and uh the well the municipalities would participate would pay for it and um then he would he or
she would hear uh the ordinance violation and issue a ruling. Um again cost totally un unknown because for two reasons. one, they're not they're not certain about the formula for programing costs, whether it be
based upon federal basis or viol violation basis or just if you want to do it, the city wants to do you guys split the the cost of a max rate equally. That's totally up for negotiations. The next item is who prosecutes. I went to the state attorney's office and asked
if they would prosecute the ordinance violations and the answer was they were they would have to get a circuitwide determination of that. Um, so I I honestly can't say whether they would prosecute them or and if they do, whether they would charge you on a per ordinance violation for prosecution.
Your alternative would be to appoint have a special prosecutor appointed that you would pay for and that person would prosecute your ordinance violations. Um, and then the sheriff's office has indicated that uh enforcement of your ordinance is part of the contract that they have with you. They will enforce
your ordinances if that's what you choose, but they will be doing it as an arm of you, not as basically an arm of the sheriff's office to the extent that they enforce your ordinance violation. If something arises as a result of that, they're doing that as an
as your agent, not not the county's agent. Okay? So, that's that would be the vehicle that you would have to set up to uh to try to enforce your own ordinances. Um, I'll get I'll be getting more information from the state attorney's
office uh and and the city of Palaca in the in the near future about the relative costs and then the state attorney's office will, you know, depending on what they tell me, we can start looking at the idea of special prosecutor. If that's an avenue that you want to pursue, the other avenue is you
simply take advantage of the state statutes that exist right now. the county court judge hears them, the state attorney's office prosecutes some, you go down that road. But I was asked to specifically advise you of your options. Those are your options. You can continue to have your laws enforced based upon the existing state statutes or if you
want for whatever reason to have your own ordinances enforced, then then you can. But but there's going to be a cost associated with it. Thank you. Thank you very much. Sure. Um, and I'll take I'll get that information
anyway, give it to the city manager and then if you want me to explore any of that further, be happy to. Okay. Thank you. We've got um three minutes. Um, so you also have an item on there. I do. So I was directed to look into the possibility of having someone
investigate the complaint that was made by one of your employees. I've gone through uh I've I've g gone through my sources to find someone who has done this in the past. She is a licensed attorney out of Orlando, has has
prepared both investigated and prepared investigative reports that have been utilized by other municipalities. Uh, I asked her for a flat fee because my experience has been otherwise I'm not sure what the funding amount
would be and that's difficult for municipalities sometimes to to deal with. Her flat fee for the investigation um, and for generating a written report would be between seven and $8,000 and she is willing to do it. It's up to
you. Um my recommendation is um that given the time that we have right now that we might need to talk about this. Sure. As at our at our our next special
meeting um because our meeting's filling up. Yes. Unless commissioners, you want to go, you want to somebody wants to make a motion on this. We've got to find the funds. You're going to have to find that.
Let me just ask the question. Are we all in agreement that it should take place? We agree. We had agreed to that. I thought we did and I just wanted to make sure. Um, then I'll make a motion to go ahead and I don't remember her
name or anything like that, but to provide the funds. You made a motion. Yes, I am. Okay. Uh, between seven and $8,000 to cover the cost. Okay. Do we have a second? Second. Okay. Would you do a roll call for us,
please? Do we have any other discussion? I've got a couple of seconds. Commissioner Burton. I. Commissioner McCori I. Commissioner Lorie. Hi. Commissioner Devito. Oh, no. And I am not voting. I'm going
to recuse myself on the higher advice of attorney Don Holmes. Okay. Mayers. Yes. Okay. So, approved. And with that, um, I want to before we end this meeting, um, about 30 seconds. We want to congratulate both
our commissioner Lori and Commissioner Devito. Heroes. Good job. Thank you both for you know all that you do for the city and for the state of Florida who live for the city and the
time you spent in I know you have done the same and Tallahassee. So, thank you both very much for your service. Okay. And so, can I have a motion to adjourn?
Second. All in favor say I. I. Okay. Thank you very much for being here. Okay. All right, folks. Good night. Good morning.
Good morning. Yeah, whatever. She did not I like I like finally heard