[clears throat] You know, they they redid our my phone. You know how they update? [clears throat] And when they did, >> they messed it up. >> Well, you can't just go in there and turn it off anymore. >> Oh, you know, it used to be just push button off. Now you got
>> it requires >> [clears throat] [laughter] >> You strong? You good? >> Okay. Thank you. I'm going to go ahead and this meeting to order. The special meeting. The date is January 6, 2026. It's approximately
1:34 p.m. Thank you everyone for being here. Happy 2026. We're looking forward to a year filled with blessings and prosperity for ourselves and for the city. So, thank you everyone for being here and hope everyone had a memorable
holiday. With that, I'm going to ask Commissioner Moore if you would please um leave us an invitation. Stand if you are able. Let's bow our heads. Dear heavenly father, we want to thank you for allowing us to come together. We
thank you for your grace and for your mercy. We thank you for how you have allowed each of us to see a brand new year. And we thank you for taking us through the last year, God. We ask that you would make this year be a better year than ever before. We ask that you be with us. Continue to give us
knowledge, understanding, continue to give us peace, and continue to give us um blessings that we might be able to do for others that are in need. And Father God, we ask that you continue to bless us, look on us, and help us to make the best decisions that would that would
make people's lives better and help us to do those things that would be pleasing in your sight. Father God, we ask that you bless and raise families on today. Have mercy upon them. Give us grace and understanding knowing that you're too wise to make a mistake. Bless our families on today. Help us, oh God, to give us strength, knowledge, and
understanding to be able to do thy will. We forever praise you. We will forever magnify you and give you the highest praise. These blessings we do ask in son Jesus name. Amen. Amen. >> Amen. >> And with that, the pledge of allegiance. [clears throat] I pledge algiance to the flag of the
United States of America and to the republic for it stands [clears throat] one indivisible with liberty and justice for all. [clears throat] >> Commissioner Moore given the gift of
words [laughter] >> again I really wish I had her on my clock. >> Yes. >> Sure. before I do a roll call. I need to do a roll call. Can it wait? Sure. Okay. Sure. Miss Taylor, thank you today. [clears throat] Um Pam Taylor, she is
our code enforcement officer and she is stepping in and she is helping us get through our meeting. So, thank you for your assistance. Pam >> and you'll do a roll call for us, please. >> Commissioner Jina, >> present. >> William Lori, >> present.
>> Linda Moore, >> here. >> Cynthia Burton, >> here. Martin >> here >> and myself I am present. So thank you. Okay commissioner you had something that you needed to say. >> Um yes I have one announcement that is
new. Um the Peninsula Historic Society is arranging for a presentation on the updated historic survey by Mr. Paul Weaver from St. Augustine, the one who prepared the survey along with J. Yeah,
that is scheduled for Tuesday, January the 20th at 5:30 p.m. at the women's club and the commission and staff and the entire community is invited and
invitations will be going. Okay. >> So, we'll make this announcement at Thursday's meeting as well. And we probably need to go ahead and make a public notice that there might be more than one commissioner, >> but actually more than one commissioner or more than one appointed official as
well because it's possible that >> the board or even the um the >> So, just if you would notice whatever it is that we need to protect any fund from [laughter] >> Thank you. And when's the date for that meeting? 20th at 5:30 p.m. at the
women's club. >> Thank you. >> And then mayor, one more item. Um if we could take note, I noticed in the um the prayer. Uh Commissioner Moore noted Bere
Families. Um this afternoon at 2 was the service for Robert New Bob's I mean [clears throat] John's brother and J.R. New Commissioner J.R. New's uncle. um was >> so our thoughts and prayers are with
them. Um I was just talking to Commissioner Lori. I just found out about 40 minutes ago, 45 minutes ago they were having a service today at two. >> Um we also lost Mark. I don't know if any of you any of you knew Mark Linton, but we lost him over the holidays as
well. His family [clears throat] is in um as as other families. you know, it's it's this the time of the year that it I don't know why, but it just seems like it's heavy on everyone's [snorts] heart at this time of the year. And so anyway, thank you for bringing that to our
attention and our thoughts and prayers go out to the entire New family. >> So with that, I'm going to ask the commission um if we can go ahead and move the presentation on the fire station to the front of the agenda um as
in an essence of um everyone's time. Um, that seems like that's going to take the most time and I know some of us might have some limitations. So, if everyone is in agreement, is everyone in agreement with that? >> You good? >> Well, if I can reach my papers.
>> Sure, please do. >> Fine. I figured the chief was here because I saw big. >> Yes. So, please do. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um, Derek, I'm going to let you go ahead and if you want to u start us off. >> Yes. Thank you. First and foremost,
appreciate everybody being here. This is really important. This is an exciting time for Crescent City. Um, our team put together a really nice analysis on the properties that we had discussed in our last meeting. I've got a video that we're going to play. Um,
can you help me get this? Uh, it's up on the computer. I just need to get it up on the wall. Captain, how are you doing? And you got a little um sweet [laughter] going on over there. >> He added some food in just kind of make it. >> Is it already?
>> Yeah. When it beeps, it just warms up >> because this is [cough] [clears throat] Is it computer? >> There you go. >> Is it Is it showing up on your screen and not there? >> Yeah.
>> Click on the desktop. Right click. Do the display preferences. I'm sorry. Yeah. Yeah, right. >> I'm waiting. It's at the wheel right now. >> You just need to right click those
monitors and say duplicate mirror. So the same mirror. Yeah, there >> you go. You need to flash it. >> Yeah. And now that's what you see on the screen there.
>> Yeah. >> What's on your screen is what's up there. >> That would be a moose. >> Yes, that's on the main screen. >> Not very prevalent here in Florida. [clears throat] >> You never know when you might run into
one. >> What is it? Is it an elk? >> It's an elk. That's true. >> It's It's on It's on a thumb drive. >> There you >> There we go. Thank you so much for your patience, everybody. [clears throat] All right, we'll get this started. Thank
you. Good afternoon everyone. Today we're going to be looking at our new fire station location analysis report. And this is going to be a comprehensive evaluation of the pros and cons for proposed fire station site locations. This is going to include metrics for
safety, location cost, accessibility, and our utilities assessment. This was put together by our location assessment team, myself, Derek Martin, city manager, Chief Joseph Razer, and Mr. Robert Taylor as well as our public
works director Keith Harris. Before we get started, I wanted to quickly touch on the basis of our metrics. This is an overview of the metrics decided by the commission at our special meeting. The metrics put in place that we were looking at on this particular assessment are safety
analysis, location benefits, cost considerations, and access and utilities. slide was added for notes created by Mr. Robert Taylor who is our architect and has worked on our design for the current
um the current um plans that we have for our new fire station. Uh he believes that there will always be a trade-off with traffic safety versus easy access if the new stations to be located anywhere on summit. Traffic controls can be established by adding traffic lights
to alert all vehicles of incoming emergency vehicles. Um, if a helipad is required, the landing pad size will be 150x 150 approximately. That's 22,500 ft, which is a little over half an acre
of land. That plays into the size and location of our fire station. Location benefits. um some that he talked about is the high visibility may not be available um unless additional properties are available to consider that are within the city limits. Um the
biggest downside to reusing 2011 North Summit is that um we you know we have to demo um existing facilities while the new facilities are being constructed. That is our our current fire station. We've had that discussion. The biggest
downside to the wastewater treatment plant may be that the location is off the beaten path and may be hard to find. Um, talking about cost considerations quickly, when the city already owns the property, of course, uh, one may feel that it is a significant advantage, but
if the site is too small to accommodate required functions now or in the future, um, that site may not actually be as viable. Demolition costs may be considerable when removing lead based paint or asbesus. Um utility access can
also be costly as well. Um even if water and sewer is available, the adequacy of those services may be considered. Uh if they're inadequate, services will have to be upgraded and remember the fire station has to be fully sprinkled and so we have to have
pressure there. uh consideration for storm water retention, parking and landscaping are also vital and looking at sizes when we're talking about these properties. Florida Avenue, this is our old pick and safe location at 106 North Summit
Street. First up is our safety analysis overview. Um there were traffic cons safety concerns, emergency response risk, access difficulties, and high-speed traffic. Um, safety can definitely be an issue with being located right on Highway 17 with uh with
access coming in and out of that station. It can be difficult and dangerous with the high speed or high volume of traffic. Um, it could lead to operational challenges for emergency vehicles. Um, highway location poses risk for um, rapid emergency response, deployment, and return. This was
something that was discussed with our current chief razer at the Florida Avenue um old pick and save location. There are advantages for and and future considerations to take into uh into effect. So the current central positioning uh it meets the
city's preference and centrally located um having a centrallylo station. It's highly visible uh for the town and to have a presence. The fire operat is essentially positioned to reach the city proper very easily. Future growth challenges though as the city does grow
it needs to be further away. Um current central location will become less optimal over time and it may require additional stations as the city expands outward towards the south and west. In this cost analysis breakdown it g
total acres at 58 acres. Um the market status is to be determined. Um they are working um on doing a couple things there. The new owners, it's not particularly on the market right now. The estimated range for acquisition is
approximately 100 to 140,000. And that final cost depends on negotiation and market conditions when we do not have all of those answers at this time. On the development side, site work cost presents both advantages and challenges for development. uh lower overall cost due to existing infrastructure
availability is there but the increased direct cost due to smaller property size and special construction is there as well. Um site constraints may require specialized design solutions which would increase the overall cost. Next is the accessibility assessment. Um
this is an overview on the site access. This site is small with limited accessibility options that require careful design and consideration. Uh the current access points of course can be utilized off of Highway 17 and Florida Avenue. Current access is from Highway
17 in Florida. Um we could utilize the same uh but they would definitely have to be fortified for the truck. Um design could accommodate the existing access configuration. Um there are design flexibilities and creative solutions needed for optimal utilization of that
site. um optimal the operational limitations um are as said before it's a small site it restricts the development options the site could not have a helicopter pad due to its size the space constraints limit our emergency um
vehicle response capability as well um limited area requires efficient layout and planning and of course that increases our our overall cost still on the old pick and save Florida Avenue um property The existing utility infrastructure assessment showed that we
did have water service availability. Um storm water would definitely be a challenge. Um so with the sewer services um but we could provide the adequate wastewater management for the facility and the infrastructure limitations. Um
our water services should be available but they probably would not meet the water um pressure standard needed for sprinkling the system. It would have to be upgraded. Um the storm water could uh would need design accounting for around 15% of total site availability. That's
very challenging when you only have um a little over half an acre in size for the infrastructure. Um that size poses limitations um and issues for that storm water management and may require specialized engineering underground solutions. Our sewer services are
available at the location and those would provide adequate wastewater management for the facility. All right. So, this is for the Florida Avenue comprehensive pros and cons summary. So, the key advantages um meets the city's leadership uh preference for
central visibility. The fire apparatus will be centrally located for easy access to the [clears throat] city proper. Uh lower site work cost due existing infrastructure. uh water sewer services would be available at the site again um but they would need to be
updated and upgraded. The major challenges is the critical concerns limitations that have to be addressed would be the safety issues with location right on highway 17 with the high speed traffic the small site size at.58 which limits our development operational
capabilities and cannot accommodate a helicopter path due to the space constraints and the storm water management challenges due to the 15% site availability requirement. Up next, we have the old Hank Bustler Chevy dealership at 301 Lemon Avenue.
Our safety analysis for 301 Lemon uh Avenue, which is the old Hank Bustler Chevy dealerships are as follows. The safety concerns, again, you'll hear this from uh any of the properties that are along 17. Um the Highway 17 proximity creates significant traffic safety risk
for the emergency vehicles entering and exiting. Um we do have a high speed rate of traffic and a high volume of traffic at some uh times of the year and some times of the day. Um there are mitigation potentials. Of course, proper design and traffic control measures could help address these safety
concerns. Um and we have to look at the traffic conditions on 17 could [clears throat] uh impact our response times. So on this slide, we're going to be talking about the location advantage assessment. Um, this is a centrally
strategic positioned property. This is right in the center of town. It's has an optimal coverage area. The fire apparatus will be positioned centrally, which enables efficient reach to all areas of the city proper with reduced response times. Um, it's got high visibility. [clears throat] It's
prominent Highway 17 location. It provides excellent community visibility and demonstrates municipal emergency preparedness commitment. Um, and this of course meets the city's leadership preference as discussed earlier in meetings. Location aligns perfectly with municipal leaders vision for centrally
located and highly visible fire station. A cost analysis breakdown for the old Hank Bustler Chevy dealership location at 301 Avenue are as followed. The property acquisition cost, this is number one. Um, it's around maybe
125,000 to $160,000. Uh, of course that depends on market conditions. It's not currently on the market. Um, but there are infrastructure advantages. Um, lower site uh work costs due to existing infrastructure
availability reducing the overall development timeline and expenses. Um, but there are development constraints because of the size of the property. It would be a higher development cost. Um, and that's, you know, per square foot. Um, due to smaller size 1.21 21 acre
property size requiring more intensive design solutions. Demolition of the existing structure will also need to be completed and this is something to talk about when it comes to um when it comes to costs. On our accessibility analysis, we found that this particular site at 301 Lemon
had multiple access points uh both on 17 and Lemon Street providing multiple ingress and egress options. uh on our design flexibility. There is potential for accommodating access design solutions despite our constraints. Um this would be through some creative
engineering approaches. The current limitations um are that the uh present access is restricted to 17 only. Uh creating an operational bottleneck for emergency vehicles. Um and this is because of the northbound access only.
This of course can be changed but we would have to work with the DOT on the utility infrastructure assessment. We do have water and sewer. Um storm water would be a challenge as discussed on previous slides. About 15% of this total site would have to be
allocated um creating a a a pretty significant constraint um and increase in our overall cost to come up with a design solution that would work. Um the site is limited only to 1.21 21 acres being available and of course that is
potentially problematic for development. Um both water and sewer as as discussed a second ago are available. This would reduce overall infrastructure development cost but the water line would most likely have to be updated and upgraded in order to meet pressure uh
needs. It's our location [clears throat] assessment summary for this. Um there are key advantages, primary challenges and some recommendations. Of course, some of the key advantages are that this property would align with municipal strategic planning. Um existing
infrastructure in place already reduces development costs and this is centrally positioned and meets uh the city's leadership vision for excellent visibility and coverage. There are some challenges and safety concerns and site constraints require careful design. uh
being close to Highway 17 poses its own safety risk. Um its limited site uh size constraints um development and the storm water requirements consume a significant space on this property being at 1.21 uh acres being available. Um, we would
have to conduct traffic safety impact assessment, develop a comprehensive site design plan, and explore storm water management alternatives as our 15% storm water requirement would eat up a lot of space on this on this property. Next property is at South Summit Street,
Junction Road. This is the Irwin property analysis. Safety assessment analysis for the Irwin property is as follows. On the safety advantages, we have lower traffic volume on junction than we do on 17. Reduced vehicle speeds. This is safer fire
apparatus for uh this is safer for the fire apparatus, navigation, less congestion during emergency responses. The infrastructure needs we have of course is that we would need new signage installation, road marking updates, emergency vehicle preeemption systems,
and community awareness campaigns would definitely be required. Um, there are some safety concerns. A signage installation would be required. Potential visibility issues would be a problem. Unfamiliar route for some residents and an initial adjustment
period would be needed. The traffic benefits though significantly uh lower traffic flow than the main highway. uh it's would be easier for the emergency vehicle deployment reducing reducing our accident risk factors
on our location analysis. Um I've given you a legal description here in a photo that you can see on the star where this is located. Uh this is just outside of town um the downtown district. It's it's within the city proper. Uh it's 2.58
acres total in area availability. The location advantages for this is it's outside congested downtown area. Larger development space is available. Strategic positioning for the city. Uh wide coverage is also there. Room for future expansion and optimal design.
Flexibility is also a location advantage for this location. The location drawbacks though it is further from the downtown core. It may increase response times to central business district. Um, and it requires community adjustment to a new fire station location.
On my cost analysis breakdown, we do have a purchase price for this property. The owner is asking around $400,000. Uh, it is a great location for a full-size gas station development in the future. Um, that price reflects commercial potential, but it may also
allow for negotiation for public safety use. Um the financial considerations [clears throat] of course this is higher than some of the alternatives we have already spoke about. Um but it is it does include 2.58 acres of land. The cost per acre is very competitive for commercial zone property
within uh with with development potential here in our city. I wanted to touch on the accessibility pros and cons. Um this is our assessment for that. Um there are some advantages. its excellent strategic positioning directly across major transportation
corridors um and comprehensive city coverage capabilities. Its close proximity to 17 uh would give our fire apparatus a rapid highway response and mutual aid deployment. Centrally uh central access allows efficient coverage for the entire city and larger site
footprint enables optimal apparatus bay design and vehicle maneuvering space. There are some accessibility challenges though. While offering excellent coverage, some operational logistic considerations uh require careful planning and mitigation strategies. It's an increased distance from downtown core
that may impact the response times. The community education would be a huge part in this regarding new station location emergency service delivery changes and potential need for new traffic pattern adjustments and emergency road uh optimization planning would also have to
be uh considered on the Irwin property. We do have water service availability. We would need utility connections. Um septic system would be required. Um public works could speak to that a little bit further. We do have a sight size advantage um but
the existing water infrastructure is already provided. This would eliminate a major connection cost and reducing development timeline. I believe that we have enough pressure down there. I'll let co public works speak to that. Um the utility connections we would definitely need electrical and
communication tie-ins as required. Uh sewer main connection is possible but requires a cost analysis and feasibility assessment. Additional costs um needed would be for septic system installation. I don't think that the sewer connection would be immediately available. This
would increase our initial infrastructure um investment. We do have 2.58 acres available. It's ample space for optimal fire station design, our apparatus storage, training areas, and future expansion capabilities.
The overall assessment is 2.58 acres. It's around $400,000. you have access to highway 17 and water is available. There are some key advantages of course with the size. Um there are some concerns um
which have to do with the cost um and of course infrastructure cost and purchase of the property. Um but there are some other things that can be done uh recommendations. There's you know we the property offers significant operational advantages that may justify the higher
initial cost. Uh though improving long-term functionality, cost per acre is competitive for commercial property. Future expansion um potential maximizes the investment that we're making and optimal design capabilities enhance our
operational efficiency on this property. It' be a larger being a different location. We wanted to give you all uh our strategic decision matrix of course strengths, threats, weaknesses, opportunities. But one thing to consider is that we don't even know
if this property owner would be willing to [clears throat] sell the property. This is just a property that we have discussed in house. Nobody has contacted the owner directly from my office. Uh I have not spoken to the owner directly myself. I believe that some staff have
in passing, but there has been no rock solid uh discussions on if this site is even available. Uh again, strengths, large area threats, budget constraints, weaknesses, higher purchase price for this property, but the opportunities in this property for future expansion,
potential improved operational efficiency, uh community growth, accommodation are very big, and that's what uh that's what we looked at this property for. On the next slide, we're going to be discussing our existing fire station and the analysis that was given to that. Our existing fire station
property overview, current status. Um, this is something that we already have worked on some design plans. Um, there are some uh great factors and some limitations as well for this property. Our property size combined parcels are
around almost an acre at 0.99 acres providing adequate space for current operations potential expansion. Uh we are strategically located with that particular office um space and and fire apparatus is centrally positioned with
access to highway 17 at Eucalyptus Avenue and Main Street for optimal coverage. the ownership status of course that is currently owned by Crescent City eliminating any acquisition costs for future development um projects are some key advantages of our current
location. Again speaking to cost zero acquisition cost um it is located within the boundaries of optimal response coverage within the city. Highly visible location enhances our uh community awareness and presence and our fire apparatus can reach all of the city
areas efficiently and quickly. The cost advantages. Um there are significant benefits from from owning uh or being an existing owner of this property. Um zero land acquisition cost due to current city. The development cost is limited to improvement and expansion needs only. Um
the existing operational infrastructure reduces startup and transition expenses. And the accessibility uh benefits for this are of course there's three access routes. But there's multiple access points providing flexibility for emergency response and operational efficiency improvements. There's
multiple potential access points from 17th corridor the secondary access via Eucalyptus and its proximity to Main Street as well are all benefits to the accessibility. This is currently in 24/7 operations um for the city and also um
we house a unit for the county as well. For the existing fire station, there are critical challenges and safety concerns. There are traffic safety issues with high speed on 17. Um there's poor visibility and signage. The current Highway 17 access locks uh lacks proper
uh signage creating identification and wayfinding challenges for emergency operations. There's inefficient lighting infrastructure. Lack of dedicated lighting for the fire station and apparatus creates visibility and safety hazards. And the water pressure deficiencies are huge on this. This is where a lot of the cost comes in for
infrastructure. The current water uh infrastructure does not provide adequate pressure uh required for the station uh and its response needs. On the last slide, we discussed the water system limitations and again speaking to that their water pressure is inefficient for
this station. a new waterline installation would be required. I believe we already have a cost on that and as time goes on of course costs increase. Um this is uh significantly increasing site development costs um and complexity of the design. Um the
infrastructure work needed before the facility improvements could be implemented would be uh vast. Um storm water this is another uh issue for this property because of the size. Stormwater regulations impose [laughter] significant constraints on site development, utilization of the
available property. 15% of this site has to be dedicated storm water management and the storm water requirements uh reduce usable development area for fire station expansion. The compliance cost adds to overall site development and
improvement budget costs. The existing fire station does have operational advantages of course and it also has safety concerns. I've discussed on previous slides. Critical safety risk. Again, being on Highway 17 creates uh some dangerous conditions for
apparatuses entering and exiting um the highway. Inadequate lighting increases accident risk during nighttime and emergency response operations. Poor signage and visibility from highway creates navigation and identification challenges. The operational benefits,
however, it is centrally located um and response times to all areas and neighborhoods of the city is reduced. Its highly visible presence enhances [clears throat] our community confidence. Multiple potential access routes uh provide operational flexibility and emergency response
options. The existing fire station has this is our cost analysis for that and the financial implications uh on that financial assessment. While land acquisition costs are eliminated due to the city's ownership, significant infrastructure investments are still required for water uh storm water safety
improvements to meet operational standards as well. Lighting and signage zero acquisition cost. This is a huge major advantage due to the existing ownership. uh water infrastructure is going to be the highest cost requiring new water line and pressure systems and
safety improvements including lighting traffic management upgrades are needed for operational excellence. So [clears throat] this is our balance assessment overview. The comprehensive pros and cons. We've already discussed most of these. I won't go into too much detail on them. The key advantages here
is that there's uh zero land acquisition cost. Um it's optimally located. Uh major challenges of course being on Highway 17, poor visibility conditions, lighting, inadequate water pressure coming into our system here, storm water requirements, the infrastructure would
definitely have to have need substantial water and lighting improvements. Um access solutions and um and development cost only is going to be what's um regarded to this property and what's regarded as the the worst impact. Um but
uh again not having to purchase any land uh is a big is a big pro here. This is our fire station analysis for the wastewater treatment plant. [clears throat] This is off of Junction and Old Highway 17. The property at the wastewater treatment
plant. Um of course availability is is 5 acres. Now, this is an open piece of property at the corner of Highway 17 at Junction. This fire station location presents definitely opportunities, but also challenges for our municipal emergency services. Um, the property
size, again, 5 acres of lands, the largest available site among all of our options, providing ample space for anything and everything we want to do, and an expansion for the future, training facilities, and potential helicopter landing pad. The current status that is is it is city-owned with
existing infrastructure, water and sewer, reducing our initial acquisition cost and streamlining development timeline for a new fire station. In our wastewater treatment plant uh located at old highway 17 and junction there, this is our safety assessment
analysis. There are safety advantages, route optimization, safety considerations, traffic speed benefits for this particular property. The traffic on this junction u and of course the volume would be less or lower than highway 17 providing a more safer
emergency vehicle ingress egress and reduce collision risk during response calls. Strategic positioning allows for safer response while maintaining adequate access to serve the community. And uh but there are safety considerations. New signage installation would be required to alert motorists of
vehicles uh in and out activity improving the visibility for the apparatus movement. Traffic speed benefits vehicles on junction road and again they're they're significantly lower than 17. We would have to work in conjunction with the DOT though for entering and exiting uh Highway 17 as
they um as the topography of the road and [clears throat] angle of the road uh would not be conducive to safe entering and exiting uh with vehicles traveling northbound um to uh into our city. So, we would have to have special lighting
and signage uh for for vehicles um to know that we're coming in and out of that area. On this particular property uh for the wastewater treatment plant, this is our location analysis strategic positioning. The current location challenges is that
it does not meet the city's uh leadership's preference for centrally located downtown location. Um there is reduced visibility compared to main to our main third there positioning options. Um location is outside of the primary downtown business and
residential districts. Um however there is future growth potential as the city expands. This location may become more strategically positioned in the next 10 15 years. Property could serve growing suburban and outlying residential areas and agriculture areas that are now
vacant. Um long-term planning may favor this position for comprehensive coverage in the future. On the wastewater treatment plant, this is our cost analysis, our financial considerations. Of course, we have zero property acquisition. Um the cost
advantages to that is that we uh [laughter] we would only be looking at our development cost. No purchase price would be required. This would reduce our project timeline due to our ownership status. the development cost. This is to be determined. Um investment still needed and site preparation is needed
for this construction utility infrastructure would need to still meet the fire station operational needs. Um this is uh something that would need to be upgraded. Of course, utilities, water and and sewer uh or force man in this in this sense um would need to be included
in our cost. Those costs are unknown at this time. The infrastructure upgrades um those are unknown. Several factors require further assessment, engineering, evaluation, determine accurate budget projections for this. I could not put a dollar figure to it. We could
extrapolate and take dollars per square foot and do that. But again, um if this is a property that is decided on, we could do that at a later time. Uh every project, every property is going to have construction cost included. Um, this one
of course are has its pros and its cons due to its location, its size and availability for water and sewer. At our 5 acre wastewater treatment plant property, um, we have multiple access routes. Um, this site offers exceptional
accessibility for potential access from Highway 17, from Old Highway 17, um, and also from Junction Road. uh we would need additional signage uh for proper identification and safety. Um the expanded capabilities as being the
largest available site out of all of them that we've looked at the property provides sufficient space for helicopter landing pad enhancing our emergency medical services and disaster response capabilities. The generous frontage allows for optimal uh emergency vehicle
positioning and maneuvering as well. on our wastewater treatment plan, existing utility infrastructure assessment. Of course, uh we have current utility status providing uh for that property, providing sewer and water services, offering a good foundation for
fire station development. However, there are several critical infrastructure components that would require further evaluation and potential upgrades to meet the emergency service operational requirements. This would have to do again with the water system, with adequate pressure. service would have to
do with the sewer service um and finding exactly what is available and whether we are going to be doing um uh a pressured main uh force main or tying into gravity system. Uh storm water management is also um very important. The storm water
management system is going to require installation with costs that are currently unknown and engineering assessment would still need to be uh determined uh in order for proper solutions to be designed and engineered. But again, it's on a 5 acre development.
the wastewater treatment plant. Our comprehensive pros and cons summary are as followed on the overall assessment. [clears throat] While the location, preferences and infrastructure um unknowns pose considerations of city ownership and site size offer significant benefits for emergency
services expansion. The key advantage again, we own the property. It is the largest out of all. It will uh allow us to encompass a helicopter pad. uh you have lower traffic on the main uh ingress and egress locations. Um the
problem is that it's outside of our downtown district uh lacking our central visibility. Um we have a danger going in and out of 17 that would need to be discussed with the DOT, use signage, flashers, uh and and a campaign
awareness for people to know that the emergency vehicles are entering and exiting that highway. Um we have unknown infrastructure costs for water pressure and the storm water management, but this site does offer um potential uh for city growth that may improve over time the
desiraability of that specific location. And I just want to take this time to thank Mr. Robert Taylor, thank our public works director, Keith Harris. Uh, thank our fire chief, Joe Razer, um, for helping out, putting this together. And leave this with you all. The ideal
location balances our operational effectiveness with community harmony and fiscal responsibility. That's what we should be looking at. I appreciate everybody taking the time to listen and watch this video and hope that you all can use this to make a good decision.
Thank you for your time today. This concludes our slides. Everybody still awake? [laughter] >> Not allowed to speak anymore for the next couple of hours. >> You got it. >> We're done. We're done with We're done with We're done with listening to
[laughter] >> um Commission. At this time, let's go ahead and open it up for any questions. We've got everybody here. So, we've got several sites that we can consider. Um let's go into our discussion. [clears throat] So, who wants to start
off? Commissioner Burton, do you want to start or you want me to start on the other end? >> I can start. Um I I you know, I've said this right along as far as where we're going to put this thing. Uh I do not necessarily want to
pay to, you know, pay for another piece of property. Uh basically, you take that piece of property out of our tax >> off the tax off the tax roles. I just don't think that that's necessarily a good idea. And I don't really see any
that um I mean although they suit the visibility um I think even the the our present uh you know site when you start talking about uh well you know it's dangerous and this and that and the other. I mean
the one that's kind of outside that we're talking about off of junction because you're coming up the hillside down >> because you're coming up the hill uh on 17 it could be a problem and we're going to have to have FDOT do something so that we they know that there's going to
be something coming out of Junction Road, you know, but all of everything needs that really. I mean we need that now at Eucalyptus. I mean, after all, we come out, we make a left-hand turn on eucalyptus, then we can make a right-hand turn on 17, or we go through
17 to make a left-hand turn. All all the ways to get on 17 are somewhat um could be [clears throat] dangerous, you know. So, so I mean, I think that that's a cost and and that's something that we're going to have to work with FDOT no
matter where this is put. But I like the idea that the the pad the helicopter pad um don't isn't isn't there another one that's >> We already have we already have one in place and they don't have any intentions of doing away with it at this time. It's
down at the um treatment center. >> So So what would my question would be besides you know um are our uh [clears throat] our ice people using it to to land their you know [laughter]
But anyway, I mean, what what would that purpose be for for us to have that? Um, if I >> pull your mic down, if you would, please sure >> introduce yourself. >> Yeah, Chief Razer, president. >> Um, if I can speak on that a little bit.
We we currently have a helipad in the south and the problem is it's at the rehab center. >> Yes. The problem we are currently running into and my co-orkers is the rehab center has a gate up front that's a security area. We have recently had multiple issues accessing the helipad.
Um they control the helipad if there's something out there. We can't confirm if it's clear. We can't confirm if they're in construction. We can't get to it because the gates are closed and locked. So the ideal behind this was we will have our own helipad used for several reasons. one. Um, I've been in talk with
several flight crews and they have pointed out that this area is be somewhere safe beyond a privately owned helipad that they can see and use. So, it would come in [clears throat] handy for EMS transports. It come in handy for
law enforcement to sit down and deploy or do whatever. And then for emergency services, um I've also been in talks with Coast Guard just because they want to do trainings and and they want to make sure they have a helipad that's accessible. The current helipad is there. We are able to use it, but it
requires phone calls, confirmations, gate access codes, correctly. >> That's what I need to know. I mean, >> yes, ma'am. >> Sure. >> But I mean, you know, [clears throat] >> that's all the questions are started.
>> Okay. Commissioner. Okay. Commissioner. >> Um, can I can I ask Keith some questions about utilities? >> Harris. Sorry. I know there's a comfortable chair. Um,
>> in the slides we talked there was mentioned about like urban the urban property on the corner. Why would we put in a septic system? I mean that's right around the corner from the >> we really would have to put in a a septic system. We can go with a lift station and we do have 8 in force main
there. >> Okay. >> So it would have to be a and same thing with the city property. It's going to be the same thing. It's going to be a lift station. >> Okay. But because I mean the lines must run fairly close through there, right? [clears throat] >> There is an 8 in water on Irwin's
property. Like I said, nobody knows if he wants to [clears throat] sell it. last time you know he didn't >> um >> I'm not really leaning to that but I just wanted the the clarification on those utility issues and and with the um talking about our existing fire station won't the upgrade
of Main Street is that not going to >> it's it's fixing this well soon [clears throat] as we >> right >> choose a contractor I think we're still up in the air on that >> but I mean but that would hopefully fix some of their water pressure concerns >> yeah because they're going to start here at central and go that Okay, that's
that's that's the other question because I I understand there's a problem now, but we hope that that would be fixing it. Um, and then I think there was problem and so in the wastewater treatment property you said we could just tie into that and there's a water
man that's out there. >> Yeah, but it's a 6 in but it the 8 in runs up to it and then the the eight ties into the six. >> Okay. So, we might be able to upsize that or something if we need to. Okay. [clears throat] Well, that answer my question. Thank you.
>> Hello. >> Yes. Thanks. Well, actually, um, some of my questions are for the whole team. Um, just on the site evaluations, I was very unclear about why the US 17
in town locations, the current avenue, the um old pick and save property, the Lemon Street, the bus property, those are described as being in highspeed traffic. The speed limit's 30 and the Okay, just
hear me out. the speed limit is 35. At the Irwin property, the speed limit goes up to 45. And as Commissioner Burton has pointed out, the traffic coming up the hill has a huge blind spot.
um also at junction and 17. I mean what what y'all have put in this analysis does completely conflicts with what I see and what we've been told by public works in the past and what I see in other cities. Um that intersection of
junction and 17 is where a lot of accidents occur, serious accidents. It's not a good intersection. And in fact, um, when we had the closure of Pine Street, the public works department, as I remember, isn't this why I keep sorry.
Um, they did not particularly want to be cut off from coming down North Bank Street, having to go out on Junction Road because it meant they had to turn out on 17 and they did not care for that. Wasn't that the situation we had? Um kind of but we block we you know we
block street off because of the [clears throat] people's feet. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I know if I can piggy back on that a little bit. Yeah. Let me just could I just So every um I just that that whole safety assessment
um I I just don't really understand and particularly when I go to other cities in Florida or in other areas of the country. Um Thomasville Road in Tallahassee, there's fire station there, that's 45 miles an hour. Um,
Palm Bay Road and Palm Bay where my in-laws live that's 45 miles an hour. I mean there's and I honestly um so I don't I don't quite get that and I can see 17 from the house.
>> So I don't see that the you have to get on 17 to go almost anywhere. So, so to me that safety assessment either y'all need to explain to me why 35 miles an hour in town where people are expecting
ingress and egress is somehow less safe than south of town where quite frankly it's the same traffic. [clears throat] >> I'm sorry. I just want to keep track. I want so that you can all answer this at the same time. Right now you've got
three commission two commissioners my and plus I'm going to add to that that I mentioned to someone earlier today that as you go through town the crosses on the side of the road are just past that intersection. That's probably our um in
my opinion one of our most dangerous intersections that we have coming on to 17. Even taken away from 308 at least we have a caution light. And when we closed down Pine Street, I got phone calls from residents who were very upset because
they felt unsafe pulling out on the 17 there and that Pine Street, they went down Pine Street and came out Reed Street in order to get on to 17. So I am going to piggyback with you on that. And also, you [clears throat] have no guarantees
that old 17 um what the county is going to do. There has been, I know all of you know there's been some discussion that them stopping it down possibly ecliptic. Um not no determination, but there has been that discussion. That's a very narrow
junction is also a very narrow road. >> Um as is old 17. So you're going to have to you're going to have that apparatus going up and down. Um so I just wanted to piggyback with that with the safety issue that you were on. Like, can I can I follow up with something?
>> I mean, if this inter >> if this intersection has been so bad, >> why have we not fixed it? It It needs to be fixed whether we put the fire station there or not, >> don't you think?
>> Well, we could except for that's DOT. >> If I go ahead, chief, if you would. >> Yes. If I can go back to commissioner Lori when you were asking about the current state if if I can just add one little thing keep in mind if we reconstruct there we'll have the house
the current commissioner veto's question um so the way it's written as high speed and I understand it's fairly low speed the issue is the locations on 17 are smaller so the only option we have as a fire department is we will have full
pass station block two lanes of traffic and then back into the fire station, the station, the depths. So, our fire trucks require somewhere between 47 and 60 ft of turning radius. >> So, there's no way to turn them around. So, with that being said, like the
location off the junction is a single road. We come out, we have a single lane of traffic. We cross, we have a single intersection, we come through, emergency lights, I agree, intersection should respect, I agree, it's a dangerous intersection. It's something that has been in place long before we started looking at this process. those. Like I
said, the major concern is we're now in double lane of traffic, stopping, turning into blocking lanes of traffic. If someone's not paying attention, there's a side impact injury. Then we're backing across and backing across the sidewalk to get into our building. So, it creates multiple problems.
>> Could I could I just follow up on that? >> Absolutely. >> So, [clears throat and cough] how do you currently get into this the existing station? >> Depends on what apparatus we drive. Currently, um, if we're driving larger apparatus back, we're pass the station, turn around, come back, drive through
the parking lot, and then back into the station. >> Okay. >> Also, depending on who's driving, myself and Captain McLair have got years of experience, we can pull down, you can lift this into the parking lot across the street, and back up. Um, but it's still a single lane of traffic, but we're blocking at a low speed, not
Highway 17, right? So, we're just blocking this and backing in. So our parking lot is full but depending on apparatus it creates an issue. We got to then Austin powers our vehicles into the station. >> Okay. So it's [clears throat] my understanding there are two in town
locations that have side streets. >> Correct. >> Okay. But you those side streets don't have adjacent parking lots that you can also use. So again, depending on depending on which location you're talking about, the
station will set where the side street will be on the side. The entrance and exit of that side street will go directly onto the the the way the land is laid out, it's not wide enough to turn the station opposite direction. Even if we did, we would still have to pull past the
station and back into it. What we're trying to do is create a fire station with drive-thru bays to prevent backing, to prevent accidents, to prevent blocking of streets. That's the idea of the larger lots, the smaller lots. >> Well, I have to say now, hang on here.
um when I lived on Davis Boulevard in Tampa on Davis Island which was um that fire station served the airport and they responded to um plane crashes where aircraft went up in planes and they also
responded to Tampa General to some extent. Um, I do remember them blocking lanes of traffic. >> Correct. >> To get in and out, >> but and that was I I don't know. It was never of all the traffic problems that
we had. Um, that was never raised. I'm just saying. And I served on a community planning agency. So anyway, the difference, if I can, the difference is they're a paid department with multiple personnel on
the apparatus. The issue that we have, like today, if I'm not here, Captain is alone. He has no way to have a spotter backer. There's nowhere to help stop traffic. He has to maneuver that apparatus on his own back into the station while stopping traffic and sidewalk traffic and everything in
between by himself. At night [clears throat] time, that becomes difficult, especially on Highway 17. >> Okay. the the detail is very important. Um so that is very helpful. Um other the
the one okay the main concern I have and this is for the city manager not necessarily for you is that um I I am very heartened that we have documentation on paper and that
there's an analysis on paper but it concerns me greatly that one of the greatest I mean one of the most frequent words I see is unknown. and the chief unknowns are for the demolition
[clears throat] infrastructure development cost. So to me um one thing I think that we don't have that we need for this whole project and um I think we're on the right track
because there's time limitations but the one thing we need is a complete budget like Sorry, just stop because I'm so loud. Um, we we have incomplete information. I took the um the grid
that we're supposed to rank things on and the one cost we have is the acquisition cost. Mhm. >> The others um you gave us a general estimate for infrastructure, but for each site like particularly for the wastewater treatment plant um there's
there's not even a remote estimate for that. And what worries me is um we have $3 million um and that's got to cover um acquisition, whatever that may be. If it's not zero, it's got to cover
water, waste water, anything that [clears throat] has to do with site development, putting in more lighting. Um potentially [clears throat] that that $3 million would have to pay for Pellipad, right? >> Yes. >> Right. It would. So to me, I would like
to see build in before we nail down a site that we want um a better approximation of what the other costs would be and see how they add up. >> Yes, ma'am. And and and I agree with
you. You need a cost at this point for this exercise. We put together um we put together the analysis based on the metrics that you all decided as a group to nail down and to funnel down to a particular property. Any of these
properties are all going to have the same um footprint if you will for a site plan. You're going to have your parking lot. You're going to have your drainage, your water sewer connections. The cost analysis that was done was whether or not there were existing utilities and how difficult it would be to get to
those utilities. There are going to be unknowns until we specify exactly which property we're going to go to. If not, we're gonna we're gonna we're gonna pay you a lot of money to figure that out. And that's thousands, tens of thousands of dollars for that type of review. At
this point, we really need to nail down which which one we want and then allow our architect to move forward with getting those costs in the budget numbers because we need a design. You can't you can't have a a cost without a design. And that's where we are right now.
>> Can't have a design without a location. >> Correct. Can't have a design without a location. Correct. And and building on what the chief said, both the pick and save those ingress and ingress would be right under 17. So that's the problem because
you would be a higher be going right out and like a lot of them. I mean, if you have it right, if all the baits are >> not necessarily because Hank Bustler, you're going to come out. You've got orange. You have orange, right? also you have a two two side street so
you can utilize the turn in the thing on pink bus if you have a northbound only that's the issue there but that is something that comes into cost to work with the DOT and change that traffic pattern but that's again I don't know what that cost would be it is
significant >> the property goes it's a lot so it goes from one street to the other so we can always change I mean >> but it can't use the side streets >> right so you have to come out on 17 that's what I'm Okay. So that that's why I because obviously we we don't we
wouldn't have as much >> right now the current station is oriented towards eucalyptus. So you come out eucalyptus and then you go to 17. I agree that we should have a flasher out there or something. And this problem too with junction is it's a bad intersection. But I think that if we
approach DOT properly and we're putting our fire station down junction, we could probably fix that whole intersection and maybe we could get some real improvements there instead of just hoping. But now we can go to DOT and say, "Hey, this is a serious issue. It's
been a problem just for traffic. Maybe we need to look at multiple improvements there. I know it it's a challenging site because you're coming up the hill from out of town speed limit, but we could but we could at least go to DOT and say, "Hey, we need to re reevaluate this. Keep it 35 all the way down past there.
Put in a flasher. We probably can fix that and save some lives or save some some some traffic problems there and also put a fire station. >> You could even have traffic calming devices going up the hill. There's a lot of solutions there. I want to go back to the comment that was made about the
speed or or our assessment on safety. What we were discussing when we formalized this was that it is a highway. Even though it's close to that 35 mph, it's rarely I mean people fly down this road. Side streets, even though they might be higher, they're a
little bit less traveled, if you will, and so, you know, you don't have as much traffic. Um, and I just wanted to to put that out there. That's what our thinking was behind that. So, I'm gonna another question. I thought you were done. You said this was your
>> No, I have I have a couple questions, but you know, it depends on how do we want to go around. Okay. So, the other question is really um I don't really understand the emphasis on putting it
south of town for future growth because the wastewater treatment plant is not in the city limits. >> No, it's city limit. It isn't. It's NX. >> Oh, NX. >> Yes. It's certainly it's at the far south
>> far south limits. And if you're talking about um serving [clears throat] the most people, the most people live north of there. I mean, is there is there a project that someone's going to build down there that we don't know about?
There's there's been some development talks and for the a lands over there, but the thinking behind that too as well. Chief can talk to you about this more. The county works with Valuchia as well. There's interlocal types of, you know, coverage happening. We also have access to all of southern Putinham and
that goes for any anywhere that we're at. We have to think about about that. So, looking at the south part of town, it's not west. We've even talked about other properties that may be on the west or on the west side of town that we hadn't put in here that may be available. Um, but we service a larger
area than just a city property city. >> I know that. Yes, I know we do. Yes. Um, but regardless, >> it is first and foremost the residents of the city of Crescent City that we serve. It's the businesses and the
residents. They pay more taxes. We I believe Aren't we the only entity in South Putham that actually has city paid staff? Is there >> We're the only one in except for black,
>> right? We have So what I'm saying is we are we are taxing our businesses. We are taxing our residents to provide a municipal service. And in terms of future growth, it is certainly my hope,
I think we should all hope when we are trying for this um that our commercial infill and our residential infill should substantially increase. We have fewer population in the city of Crescent
City and fewer businesses than we did 30 years ago. We have our population is gradually going up, but there should be unless there's a new town built south of here. We should as well be looking at
serving [clears throat] the re residential infill and whatever might be built between here and the school unless we I mean unless we just want to I mean unless we just want to decide we're just
going to serve the county and not necessarily the city. City residents and businesses pay extra for this. So, I've got I'm gonna because I know that some of our commissioners we do have I think some of us have some time they there's some time constraints here
today. So, um I do want to ask you one thing about the helipad. >> Um I keep hearing this about the helellipad. The helellipad the helellipad [clears throat] that he helipad I don't know the city of crescent city that's serving all of South Putham. Yes. And so why have we not reached out to the county and said
you need to put a helipad in South Putnham >> and and us not have to because if you get a helipad, guess what? We're going to have to maintain that helipad um for whatever difference, the lights, whatever is needed for that. So, have we talked to the county as far as where
they would find um a location that would be centrally located for all of you emergency response units to get to in the case of um needing to use that helad? >> Yes. So the health pad here's excuse [clears throat] me here's why the health
pad's important for any stroke patient any trauma patient any OB patient any pediatric patient with significant injuries they have to be our transport time by ground it could be up to an hour I understand the question
have you talked to the county about putting a helipad in South >> they say that there are two helellipads in south put already there's no need for >> where's the second one >> the seconds of the sets from the fire station. And [clears throat] basically in this the second half of your question when the helipad is built maintenance is
you just need >> you have to have some lights. I mean >> you do not require >> like I said at station 23's other helipad it's a field it just has to be a clear designated location >> everybody for the reporting standpoint one speaker [clears throat] a there
every time at one time. Okay? Because otherwise it confuses it confuses the reporting and right now with us not having a clerk um we just I want everybody to please be cognizant of that. Um so you're saying that once we
put that in then then there's nothing that we have to do. Can a helipad go on top of a building? >> It would be more expensive. >> Yeah, I was going to say that would be up to the contractor. It would it would depend on the structure of the building.
If they can support it, they can. The problem is then accessibility to the top of the building. You'd have to put in an elevator and all that. >> Again, everybody, one speaker, one time. [clears throat] Go ahead. >> Yes, ma'am. It would then require an elevator, uh, extra expenses, but it can
go on top of the building. Yes, ma'am. >> Okay, ma'am. Um, yes. When you're done, I have a couple questions about how >> Okay. Go ahead. Okay. They'd love to go if you have a helipad. Let's get that not >> but let's just see if we can
>> so for the helipad to me um especially hearing more and what Chief Razer has said is not in the documents. Um, I have a concern about putting a helipad within the city of Crescent City, any residential or business area that is all
of a sudden going to be used not just by emergency personnel for transport of patients, but the Coast Guard training, whatever. Hell pads are extremely noisy and we have to think about the
compatibility for our residences and [clears throat] businesses. >> To to answer your question, the best I can understand, the only facility or location that we're looking at that would accommodate one would be the junction street. There's no residents in that area currently.
>> Um not to say there's not going to be later and I understand that. Um >> well, there is one actually I think there's a house just right across the street. There's several there's houses right across the street and in that whole vicinity. >> Okay. So, my comment about that is is
that I think you have to take great care when you're building HellPad um as to what you are using it for um and the impact that it's going to have on the surrounding properties. Because if you bought a nice home
somewhere and you thought you were buying into a nice quiet residential area and all of a sudden there's a hill pad that's being used from multiple sources, um the neighbors are going to be substantially impacted. So it I don't
know what this does with our $3 million. I don't know if we can use it for two different locations. I mean obviously um I have two friends who've been lifellighted for strokes but I think that may need a separate analysis.
>> Good. It's not going to be used on a regular basis. It would only be used for emergency situations. We fly out of South probably twice a month. >> Okay. But but you just said that it could be used by all of South Kum. can
be used for training and it can be used for the Coast Guard >> if necessary. Yes, ma'am. >> Well, okay. But we have to define is that an appropriate location because if the Coast Guard is having a three-day exercise with five helicopters, we have
[clears throat] to provide for that. And I'm I'm not just going to go blindly saying we're going to put a helicopter somewhere and let the chips fall where they may. That's that's not right. Can I say something here? So that I don't believe that would take place ever
without this body's approval. Number one, uh because it's owned by us and it's training. It's very it would be shortlived. The other thing about it though is I want to create a >> wait. It would be shortlived. Okay. But it will occur. >> We don't we don't know if that would
occur. They have military training facilities for that. We're talking one helicopter to come in, come in, check out the pad, they do their writeups, and then they're gone. I mean, and we don't even know if that would be the case. This is very high level discussions. We don't know if that's that's actually the case. When it comes to the helellipads,
I want to paint a picture for you. Um it's catastrophic. We got hit with a couple tornadoes during a hurricane. Lights are out. We have no access down 17. Routes coming up south from southbound have no access. You have a helicopter pad in the city, which is
still city proper. Can bring water, you can bring goods, you can bring services into the community that may need it. still services our community. If they can't get to us from Satsuma, there's nothing else. If the other place over there has an issue, we're totally locked
out. We're we do have an agreement and I think that owner has been more than gracious and and I know the city's so appreciative of him. But being able to have uh our own um u access to a helipad changes our emergency response game. the
the decision that you all will make is going to decide, you know, where we're putting this station. But thinking about it not just being a fire station, but being an emergency services complex is more of the idea of what I was thinking into the future. Um, the only optimal
one for that would be the one in the south, but there are other optimal locations and we may grow down the down the road and get a secondary as the city grows. Who knows? But there there are optimal all these locations are optimal. They all have their pros and cons.
>> Okay. But mayor, just one follow thing. So is there something that makes it impossible for the Hellpad to be in a different location than the regular fire station? [snorts]
>> Our appropriation. It has to be on one site. >> Yes. And what because I don't I think it was mentioned in a meeting but there's nothing on paper as to the cost of the helmet. >> It's a 150 by 150 [clears throat] 6 in deep. I mean I don't even think maybe that
>> 22,000 ft. >> Yeah. 22,000 ft concrete pad. That's what it is. >> If it became a financial issue, all we'd have to do is have a level piece of ground. We don't even have [clears throat] to >> That was my next question. So to you and with your scenario [clears throat] and I
understand it and I know where both of you want this to go. Um so my but your scenario is if we've got to have a helicopter in here they can land that on a vacant piece of land. So it's clear. So I'm not going to say we're not going to get water, we're not going to get
food, we're not going to out, you know, they can land on Irwin's property down here on the end if if we're in an emergency situation. Everything's open. So that's I I I I understand your rationale to this, but
at the same time, I don't want necessarily for us to base this station on the absolute necessity of that. Do we have keys to the I thought that they provided us with keys to the um the
treatment center should we need to get into the helipad. Did we not have keys? >> They gave us keys and they no longer worked. They changed they either changed the electric. >> So did we talk to them about it? >> They said they would work on that. >> Okay. >> So So I mean so the scenario you painted
though the scenario you painted is that it was it was problematic. They weren't it sounded almost as if they were not um >> correct chief. >> Correct. And the other the other issue with that location is they're fixing to start construction and once they start
construction we cannot use a hel. >> We've been told otherwise. We cannot talk to the actual flight crews. They will not land where there's construction because they're worried about debris. And even if you come by and say, "Hey, everything's good." They suck up a piece of plastic or something helicopter out.
>> I just [clears throat] I think that you're putting a lot of emphasis on this helipad and um and I you know that's >> that's a very small piece. So, commissioner um yes >> one of those questions to chief sure um one [clears throat] of my when we first
started talking about Daniel station and a citizen come to me and said why don't we build the fire station down the wastewater treatment plant I said well that's so far away how's that going to make a difference but your answer to that is what is the difference in response time you know even between that
location and the current fire station like a minute 45 seconds at least you said 45 seconds >> yeah so if we go from our station to the south end of the city talking in 30 seconds, 45 seconds and vice versa. >> So putting the fire station there is not going to make a discernable impact on
the response time to the whole city. No. >> So it's not like having it here or there is going to make any difference whatsoever. We're not a big enough city that that's going to make any real real discernable difference. >> Yeah. The only thing it would affect would be outlining in the city and even then once we get on 17 at higher speed
will make up a difference in time. So it's not going to make a difference in response. Okay. So, I mean, I just want people to understand that where the fire station where the fire station building itself is is not going to make much of a difference to the response time, right? I mean, it's really and we need to think
about the future. We need to think about the fact that this sheet metal building, as I've said several times, I sat here behind the old city hall during Hurricane Francis and watched the roof blow off the fire station and blow down the road into the power line. Um, it's not safe for you guys to be in during a
hurricane. Uh, we need a building that is hardened. We need a building that's secure. >> Getting that, >> right? But we need one also that is room to move and grow for the future and and has room for you to turn around fire trucks. That's my biggest thing. The helipad. I know what a helipad is. My my
brother-in-law, my half brother has flown [clears throat] helicopters his entire life. And yes, we flew a helicopter, landed in our backyard. So yes, you can land it anywhere. But also when you have pilots, medevac pilots, and I know because I would not be in this, I know I would be dead if it
wasn't for a medevac pilot picking me up after my car accident taking me to RMC. And they landed in the middle of the for turn bike and picking me up, right? >> But they also when you have a dedicated helicopter pad, it is clear. They know it's safe. They know it's built specifications. There's a wind sock out
there. um you can move a strobe light by it, but besides that it's a piece of concrete and they know that it's going to be level and it's going to be secure for them to land on. So yes, they can land in market square, they can land at property, they can land anywhere, but they like to land where they know there's not any trees around and nothing
blowing around and that's what a helipad gives us. Um but I don't think the helop is the part of that I care about. We need to have a fire station that's for the future. Correct. >> And in my mind, the only property that
that is is the wastewater treatment plant property. Um because I just the rest of them don't really make sense to me. If if I may, um I talked to the state. The state did say that we could use those funds for purchase of a property and we could use what we need.
The only thing is that when we originally went appropriations for 24 um and for the 25, the one of the representatives no longer there, we have a new representative. We would need a letter from them um basically support letter. It can happen through the the
marshall's office or we can directly solicit our our representatives directly and say we would like to use some of these funds to purchase this said property. Um, with that being said too, if we went with a property um, such as the one is the old the old Hank I
forgot. I'm so sorry. Yes. Um, you can change the building. You don't have to have everything housed in one building. We can design multiple buildings with passroughs. So you can still get passroughs on that property and you have two side streets that you can come in
and you can change the actual um uh design pattern on the road for that north southbound and egress eress egress but it takes money and it'll take engineering a little thinking. >> What you'll have to do then is build a center station with two facing opposite
directions. >> Correct. which would increase construction cost to do >> correct but it can it can be done and I just want to let the commission know that it can be done. So, let me ask you about on that property. When you looked at that property, did you look at the
property in the entirety or did you just look at that one area because I believe that property owner wanted to keep that one that's closest to Lemon, but do away with all that other and you realize that behind that that property sits on a 20
foot um alleyway easement that's stolen by the city that they have not abandoned. Now, the property owners have gone ahead and they abandoned it themselves. >> I know because I live there and I have no access to my backyard because both on both sides of me, the previous property
owners um went ahead and and took that over. >> Um and that that that property actually sits on 12 feet of that 20 foot alleyway easement. Correct. >> So, I don't know what did you take into consideration u when you were looking at
that property? So what I was looking at ideally so for instance the fire stations with draft base the the bait lengths are roughly [clears throat] 74 ft 74 to 78 ft deep. >> So if you're looking at it the the property lays long wide by 17. So 78t
deep if you come in from the side as I stated our apparatus are 40ft turn areas. So we would again have to shimmy the trucks around just to get them in the base especially the first bay. If you come in the road, it' be virtually impossible to get that apparatus in there. Even with the additional footage,
we would still have to jockey the truck around, get in there. So, the only other option I was thinking was to push the station back further and then back the truck end off the 17. So, that was for my safety concern with one personnel backing the apparatus depending on nighttime weather, whatever it sit, you
know, I'm trying to do safety and protecting the apparatus from hitting the bay. That was my ideal. >> Okay. again. Did you You're not answering my question. Did you consider the entire property or just >> Yes, ma'am. I considered the entire property. >> Okay. >> We did. We considered lemon to orange
>> to orange. Yes, ma'am. So, I don't believe that that's what he that property owner was envisioning. He was envisioning holding on to the one property that's right there on Lemon and eliminating those eliminating those other buildings. So I think today really
what we need to do today in the essence of time and everyone's um is we need to eliminate out of this those properties that we know for a fact it's not going to be feasible. And so that's what I think today we need to do is we know
that there's several properties including possibly our own property that we own which is based on the fact that that's going to shut down our fire station. That's to be a biggest concern. We'll have a fire station shut down for about a year if not if not longer. We never know. You never know with
construction. Um the the elementary school was supposed to be already open and it's not open yet. >> Um so that's something that would be of concern to I think all of our residents as well. My understanding too is when we
met with the state that we could not acquire with this money unless we petitioned them for that. Now you're you're stating something different that as long as we had is it our current representative who's no longer there or
the former one that >> No because both of them worked on getting one got one set the other got the other set. >> Yes. our current represent representative would have to write a letter. >> Yes. It's either [laughter] and and and the state said that they're always
reluctant usually to put something in writing, but they have a mechanism for communication with them. So, if we wanted the state marshall to handle it, we would just give them the information and they would they would do their >> they would do that. >> They would do their dealings back report and get us an answer to each. We >> were there in two weeks and legislative
days. We can ask them. >> Yes. >> Um Okay. Commissioner Dvito. Yes. Um, a lot of unanswered questions, but one thing I don't understand is originally we were going to use the existing site
and well, I had a question >> that was for a different remember that was for an ambulance station that wasn't for and that was a phase one in Hope phase two. Now we've got them combined and we're doing a complete overhaul. >> Okay, but just hang on. This is my
question. Why is it Why is it impossible to do it in phases? Why Why is that not possible to do it in phases? >> Are you talking about the Sum Street site? >> I'm talking about the existing site, we
could do it in phases before, but now we can't do it in phases. The 2011 Summer Street site where the current fire station is is about an acre, 0.98 acres >> and it has no sight water retention. And one of the concepts of adding the
ambulance dormatory in there and and the apparatus bay for the ambulance was not to impact site water retention. um the additional cost for sitewater retention in in in addition to taking up physical space would certainly cost more
money. Um and again it was just it was a 2600 foot addition to a 4,000 foot facility. So it it became I guess it's not impossible certainly undesirable to try to pursue that. And the other issue of course
>> try to do what? Do it in phases. Yeah, we we considered do in phases. When you do something like that in phases, you would build that one addition, which would have been the ambulance dormatory and the apparatus bay and then you would tear down the existing apparatus bay and
rebuild a new one. That's kind of what we thought about doing. >> Plus, my understanding, Mr. Taylor, is to do it in phases, it was going to be more expensive. >> It typically costs more money because you have a close down and startup every time you do that. So every time you
start a new project, it cost more money. [clears throat] Plus, when you do something in phases, there's going to be some kind of a connection point. When we did the ambulance facility, uh with apparatus bay, we had a breezeway, 10 foot separation. >> I saw that >> to try to help our code compliance
issues. Buildings are kind of noncompatible. So the other concern I'm sorry, the other concern of doing something in phases is the fire code and building code update frequently. So say he starts a phase and it turns into that midpoint of the year where the code compliance
changes. Now the phase is complete. He has to go back and [clears throat] bring up the new code before he can connect the new phase to the building. And for every section of phase we have to keep going back and updating and updating and updating. So it creates >> to finalize. >> Yeah. It creates nightmare and also the reason we were doing phases because we
have the million dollar first. Yes. And then backion. We've got the money now. We should do it all at once. job with the money, >> right? >> And it'll be more efficient. >> And I have one more question for Mr. Taylor because you had said you think
that we should eliminate unsuitable sites now. So Mr. Taylor, out of the sites that we have before us um in your view, are any of them um unsuitable? Would you mark any of them? smaller
sites, the 106 North Summit Street and 2011 North Summit Street. 106 is only a.5 acres and 2011 is.98 acres. Both of those to me are not viable. They're just too tight.
Um the vehicles that fire station uses has a very large turning rates. I think Chief Razer said a 50 or so foot turning. That's the outside of the vehicle as it moves in or out of the fire section. And if you have to back up on um in this case it would be Highway
17 to get into one of those apparatus bays. It is dangerous. It would takes up two lanes at least I think to back up. And if it's a single individual without some kind of monitor it's particularly difficult [clears throat] of the four sites that you've considered. I think
the most palatable site reasonable site would be the waste treatment facility. It's roughly five acres. So, like Mr. Harris said, there's water and sewer available, which is an essential utility. It is remote. Um, helicopters
are noisy. And I don't think I don't want to go off the tangent. I think that's the most viable site, >> but Okay. So, and this is to the commission. Thank you very much, Taylor. Um, it just greatly concerns me that somehow by requesting more money, we are
now in the position of moving our fire station to the far far south of town and there just seems something inherently wrong in we we've gone through um a whole
planning process for our CRA in our downtown. Um the things that people highlighted was walkability, um retaining the small town feel. Somehow it seems like we are um negating
that by going to an even further suburban plan moving this thing [clears throat] um south of town. And quite frankly, I'm not I'm not sure. Um, I think we got ourselves into this
situation by going for the additional money and although it will bring us a better chance, >> it will bring us Okay. Well, you can listen. >> I listen to you. >> Okay. Let's hope that
>> bring it. It will bring us a better facility, but I am just having a difficulty seeing why station [clears throat] that was viable whatever time ago that Mr. Taylor provided his draft plan is no longer
viable now. That that just does not commute to me. >> I mean compute and the other Well, I I just think we're missing some things in the planning process. >> Okay. Commissioner Burton and then I want to speak. >> Yeah. I was going to say I'm just going to say one thing. I'm not sure about how
far far away we actually are moving this. I mean we are only a two [clears throat] square mile city and uh you know so when we say far far away it sounds like you know it's moving miles away and um it's really not. But what it
also is opening up is our downtown area a little bit for more businesses in an area where the old uh uh fire station is. It it it's hopefully going to you know it's not that far away and of
course it will uh do its job no matter where we put it really. So, >> I'm I'm a little concerned with with Commissioner Devito with your um with your concern that we've opened something up from the get-go. We have always
stated that this facility down here is unsafe. When we're in a hurricane situation, and I have been in those storm situations here where we're not sure, the fire department cannot respond. Let me finish. I love that part. >> They cannot respond. So that's important
that we provide our fire emergency response here, including the sheriff if they have to go in there, that we provide them with a safe facility. When we did that, we were adding the ambulance station and that was going to
benefit all the all of the residents in this area by having that ambulance station right here in town. um with the understanding that we would continue to try to find a way to make that fire station
um safe, suitable, and um to help us as we go into the future. Um I think right now we are very blessed, thankfully to our legislature that we are going to be able to here in Crescent City have a
state-of-the-art facility, >> fire rescue facility, um a relative really an emergency management um compound. >> Yes. >> Now, I will say this that my concern is with having that that we're sticking it
out here where nobody will really will really see it. I mean, how many of us really travel down there? That's a concern of mine that here we have this opportunity and we are putting it we're tucking it away where this could be as you drive through small communities you
know that is always a a to me a symbol of safety stability but I also understand how that how that spot does. My question to you in thinking this through is and I know you talked about
the elementary school that but we don't know that that elementary school will ever really be released because they probably are going to have to use that. There is the property there on central right there on central have we looked at
that property where they have that bus loop. Um, and I not that we want to add another property, but this is a big decision that we're having to make. And we want to make sure that we that we do something um that
we have to live with this. No matter where we put it, we have to live with this for for it's the future. Sure. >> The future. >> Yeah. The property on you talking about the property right here across the street on Central. the property behind the where the old playground and that vacant area is and
the bus loop is now it belongs to the school. >> We have the opportunity to ask the school if with whatever property we need there would they be willing to to separate that from their parcel and and
either donate it or or charge us a small fee for it. >> Um but have you considered that location? >> Yes, I've considered that location. The the reason I didn't bring up that location um is strictly finance with that building already in place. We don't know what the water lines are cuz like
like he talked about, we got a sprinkler of the building that has 8 foot pounds of head pressure. We don't know if they can supply it. That would have to go back to water mans. We could have potentially dig up the whole building to get to the water mans or at least the flooring. >> I'm not thinking about the building. There's basic property there.
>> Oh, you're talking about the property. Build one straight up. Um, again, uh, I wouldn't have a problem at that location. Um, we honestly would have I was thinking of the buildings that are currently in place. I wasn't thinking of that. We could we can look further into that >> and I don't I don't know. I'm just I'm
throwing that out there that it is and currently it is not on the tax roles. Some of these others we have a concern because we don't know what's going to happen in the future as we continue to take property off the tax roles. >> True. And the other thing is that really your
main concern is visibility of of our fire station. >> No concern. It seems to be though. >> No, but it is one of my concerns. >> Yeah, it [clears throat] is. But it's not my main concern. My main concern is safety and that we have it, you know, in an area that it's going to meet all the
needs. And I understand, that's why I said I understand the wastewater treatment area. [laughter] It has that you could do the training. Um, I don't know as far as a cleanup what we would have to do with a cleanup there. That was something that Keith would have to to speak to is if any cleanup would be
required there just based on what that property has been used for in the past. >> So, okay. >> Yes, I Okay, I did have a couple of questions about the wastewater treatment property. Um, and just my observation, I I understand why you mentioned
[clears throat] visibility. Um and also accessibility. A lot of people in this town do not have a lot of transportation. Um for example, Commissioner Lori is not going toate
himself to wastewater treatment plant like a lot of I mean a lot of people here walk or ride a bicycle or use some nonvehicular conveyance. I guess you're smiling at me. The wastewater treatment plant is in an area that is not
accessible unless you either walk without a sidewalk or I mean I'm talking about the community aspect of it. Um you either walk without a sidewalk or um you [clears throat] don't you don't get there and in the in the past I'm just talking about the role
of our fire station. Um it has, as you mentioned, been a central site and visible in terms of safety, people able to go by. Um that kind of thing. But specifically about the wastewater treatment plant, um [snorts]
is is that in a watershed area for any of our wells? >> No, it's not. Okay. And what is the elevation of that site, the wastewater treatment site? I don't have a specific elevation, but it's high and drive. >> It's high and dry.
>> Yeah, >> currently right now it's still staged up with some hurricane debris that that Keith has been slowly working on getting rid of. >> Yeah, it's it's part of the the land that we bought for wastewater treatment plant, but there's not anything that's
been done as far as wastewater treatment used property. It's just the five acres attached to it. the entire five acres keep [laughter] >> can you confirm that that we've never done anything on that property that
would require any type of a clean up >> we haven't done anything in years out there we haven't spread sludge in >> five seven years now >> we didn't spread on the whole section either and really and truly the corner
you don't even need two and a half acres you don't need the whole five >> we That's just a parcel size. >> But being we're on that, we're going to have to find a new place to start burning or we're going to have to pay that brush off.
>> So, I just want to bring that up since we're talking about [clears throat] and one thing I want to add to just a reminder for the commission. Um, we did get a letter of intent from a potential buyer for the
cityowned fire station property. Um, we could also enter into a lease back uh in order to make the sale, gather the money and lease the building while we are building our other uh building. So there's no uh loss in continuity at that
time. The deals can be made uh and that money can be used to purchase another property back on the tax. Yes. >> Okay. I'm not sure that the with Mr. Taylor with the bustler prop property if
you eliminate that one building. Keep you know which building I'm speaking to that that would provide the the amount of of acreage that you would need. You would need it sounds like from what
Mr. Taylor said at least a acre and a half to be optimal at least. >> Well at the minimum >> again we need to determine the parameters of the hell pan. You know, I'm of the opinion that it doesn't have to be all package. You need a landing spot and then you need a clearance spot.
I'm thinking that the Satsuma fire department is basically just grass behind their >> So, it seems to me there's some flexibility in what the hell that actually give us. Um, if you want to plan for some future development, I
would think a 2 and a half acre site is going to be a reasonable selection. the five acre site for the waste treatment as Mr. Har said it's not necessary for the whole site. Uh but if you need a little bit more property, you got a little bit more property, it's easier to
do. >> And and to ease of mind of the two points that just brought up, the burning can still be done on that site. It just has to be 150 ft away from the structure. And then for your question about uh people without transportation, I just want to make sure everyone is aware. If you call 911, we can come and
do blood pressures and stuff like that. There's no charge unless you're transport. This is a free service provided. So they could still get the same treatments or whatever without having to come into the fire station. We don't transport anyway in a firet truck. So we wouldn't change anything on that aspect. >> How many people
that we probably get? >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Okay. So I think again today we need to eliminate that's what we need to do in um is eliminate and then if we need to revisit this I think we've eliminated it
down to where we need to bring it back at a regular meeting commission >> meeting but no you had another piece of property too >> well and I don't know I don't know if that's feasible but >> one thing that I'll bring to you all on the next go round I'll get with the county I know JR had told us before how
much they spent on the site work for theirs I'll get that square foot price and we'll At least we can I can work with Mr. Taylor to figure out the square footage of the development. We can have some sort of grasp on the number on on the the money for development portion.
You know, sidewalks, paving, underground, you know, storm stuff like that. >> Two two things I wanted to add. the the property that you were talking about that's attached to the that's on C Avenue there that hopefully will be a primary development site for the
business district if we're going to at some point in the future but also part of that field has always has a retention pond on it that services building 15 along south prospect so without taking care of that and somehow rerouting that that swarm that does kind of make that
site very weird shaped so >> and that site might not even It's probably not even feasible. I was just looking at vacant property that we have in >> town. And the other thing I wanted to say was the the old buster Chevrolet property. There is a plume underneath
there of gasoline that has come from the the gas station across the street that goes underneath Highway 17. Currently, there's mitigation wells. >> It's done. Did they take there's one that's right behind my house? So, I know they've taken that off. >> Okay.
>> Um Mr. Taylor said, and he could speak to more about it, but the the existing um infrastructure down there, the school, the your >> retention. >> Yeah, site water retention. Sir, >> I was going to say if if the one exists, Mr. Lord, it's possible it could be expanded and reused as part of this
development. >> They picked a very weird site place to put it because it's right up against Central Avenue. So it almost makes it, you know, it's in the way of almost anything. I don't know why they put it really in it, but didn't think of >> really high and dry, too. Underground
retention is not something that needed to be done here. >> Yeah. You know, >> I I'd prefer to use >> above. >> Yeah. Retention exposed. It's easier to maintain, less expensive. Sure. >> Yeah. So, let's go ahead if we can and um if if if the commission so so
desires, let's eliminate some and then let's get some direction as we go forward. Is everybody good with that? Your >> honor, I I I really think that the site across the street has some viability. Can we expand our search to look at that a little bit more closely? I don't know.
Mr. Martin, have you looked at that? I have not looked at it, but I'd like to to go and do a site visit to see the parameters and and then we can do an analysis just like we did here. Just five, six slides and give you an idea of what what that looks like. >> If that's if that's the commission's um
>> the site across the street, I'm sorry. >> Got it. Got it. Got it. Well, and then mayor, speaking of additional sites, central site, um you had mentioned that you're not sure if the um Middleton Bernie Elementary School site
will ever be available or >> We don't know. >> We don't know. >> We don't know. >> There is property across the street. >> That's the Cherry Street. That's the property that I believe has already up for development. I don't think it's already on. Oh, you're talking about
across on Cherry Street, [clears throat] you know, >> just directly across from Milton to Murphy, but some of that's Marsh Lane, some of that is wetland, but it is and someone bought that from that and they purchased it as the same company. >> Okay. It is my observation that there is
quite a bit of high and dry property that does not have significant structures on it right adjacent to 308 that could not possibly be marsh land. No, but I think that that's privately I think that's part of the
>> should be able to that's part of the development I believe. Um and I know that chief do you want to talk to that because I know you looked at it >> that piece she's that piece she's talking about. >> Huh? >> It has nothing to do with the housing
development. >> It doesn't have anything to do with the housing development. Okay. >> It it is purchased uh privately I believe. And then >> purchase what? >> Privately. The private owner has that property. I did look at that property. You're talking directly across the street from the school, the open land, >> correct?
>> Yes, ma'am. And I'll try to find out who owns it. It has been purchased recently, I'm pretty sure. >> Yeah. Because the reason I mention it is it's um it's very walkable and it's near residential area.
>> I wouldn't chief if you would just real fast. I know. Didn't you look at some other property there at Middleton Bernie? >> Um, I looked at building 15 at Middleton Bernie on the corner. Um, me and Chief Highel talked about that location before. The only issue with that is
there's two trees on the corner. I don't know how it would affect those. Um, the building does already have fire code. It has sprinkler. It has fire alarm. You would have to add base to it. Would turn sideways and then it would be depending on what they're doing the rest of the building as far as access goes. We have
looked at that fairly closely. Um, like I said, I looked at the property across the street and realized it was just recently purchased. So, I didn't spend too much time on that. But, um, I think the trees will come into play on the Middleton burn because it's right on the corner right there cherry where the two
trees sit on the edge. Where's he? >> Um that that piece of land across the street from Milton M was purchased by Feather Sparrow. Feathers Sparrow Properties in Indiana.
um from your specific >> Yeah, they have no idea this chief. What is our timeline as far as um acquiring the property and presenting that that we have ownership? Because we have to acquire it, we have to have ownership.
>> Um what >> the property if we have to acquire a property? >> We have to identify we have to have deed ownership >> um to do that. What's our timeline to give a location? >> I think it was 90 days before we start
construction. >> What was the question there? I'm sorry. When's when do we have to give them the the property the property that we're going to start construction on? >> Talking about the state. >> Yes. >> As soon as possible, but there's not a >> No, I thought there was a time when
Mayor could I think I can answer that because I looked at the minutes was from October 7th and Mr. Taylor said or someone said it's in the minutes that the deadline with the state is to acquire control and ownership is January
30th of 2027. Not that we want to come up against that. Um but that if you look at the October 7th minutes, that's the date. And mayor, could now that you asked that question, could I make an observation? >> Yes. >> Okay. To me, I think this whole project
needs um more in writing and more time a budget line and a timeline. For example, um the timeline should include from acquisition to completion and any hard um hard stop
deadlines um so that we can see how they might interplay. But for example, a timeline that shows you have to have control by this time whatever the 90-day construction thing is how we are going to bring this in for a landing within the parameters that are
set by the state grant. I think that would be extremely helpful. Um as well to me this project is missing um a written narrative that contains a lot of the information um that was said
verbally today. That was all he pretty much read that [clears throat] no saying that the answers from the podium. This project does not have what is typically had in a project like this which is a written narrative that says what we want
to do, how we're going to do it. Um what all the rationale are and actually um one thing we haven't answered is what Commissioner Burton and I both brought up at the October 7th meeting. >> I'm sorry. I should be I can't cut.
>> So what we what Commissioner Burton said and I had the same thing on my mind and asking the question. We don't have a written scope of the project. There's nothing in writing that says um exactly you know
what is the purpose of this project? How much equipment are we going to house? How many people are we going to house? Is it going to be one story, two story to be developed? Um, it needs name for I don't think we could write a narrative
until we have [laughter] where we're at with that. Wait, wait, wait. That that cannot possibly be true. Um, you we don't you're saying we don't know how many personnel we're going to house. We don't know how much equipment we're going to house.
>> The equipment we have is the current equipment we have. As far as you were saying one story, two story, we won't know any of that. >> So that's too much. But we should have and Commissioner Burton said this in October and I fully agree. Um we need to
have a written statement of what it is we're trying to accomplish because um I don't I I' I've never seen a significant $3 million project operate without a timeline and a narrative. a stated
objective. What is the objective of this? How much equipment? How many people? In fact, um we've talked about planning for the future. What is the anticipated life of this fire station? We should know that. Um and a timeline would tell us when do we plan to have
this completed? I think we just need more on paper and it will help us. It will help staff. It will help the commission. and we'll help that. >> When did you say our deadline was in >> 27th? >> January 27th. >> January 30th. >> I thought we had I thought we had 18
months. So that would make that would make sense. I was thinking it you know we'll take 18 months to make our decision as to where the location is. So you know with all due respect I have no problem writing whatever needs to be put
in writing at this point as far as member goes. No specifics. It's going to be difficult because that building will work as an emergency service facility. I could say it could have eight people in it, but as stated, if the tornado worst here, I'm putting 60 70 people wherever I can put in there safely and to give them shelter, housing, security,
whatever they need for that timeline. Um, because it is a fire station, those numbers will vary daily. Um, normal staffing, we'll have 8 to 10 people there on a regular depending on volunteers and then volunteers can go. And at this point, I I would appreciate
it right away and start moving in that direction. We can easily throw together a narrative. Whatever needs to be put in writing, that's not going to be a problem. >> I believe we all understand here that we're building. I mean, we all approved going to the legislature and asking for
the appropriations to build a state-of-the-art fire department >> with that was our first request when we asked for the 2 million. They came back to us and said, "What can you do with a million?" and we said, "Well, we can build out the the ambulance. We can build out the ambulance bay and the
dormitories." That's we were when we were very blessed with getting this additional and they did meet that that they had told us that they would try to do and they even we even came back with more. Thank you, Mr. Brillhart, for for doing that for us and and including that
additional million dollars. Um, we have an opportunity. We all know that. I think also that you can't plan today for what we currently have. You're going to have to look at what could this be in the future. >> Sure. >> Um and and if it's eight to 10 people
that we need to house in there, then I think at this point in time we have that opportunity because we might not have that opportunity ever again. Um, and so I think I agree with with all of you that we've got to pin down a location
and then from there we can we all know there's going to be infrastructure issues. We all know that um you know the building costs are going to be determined based on where we're going to locate it and the size that we're going to be able to put there is going to be
determined on based [clears throat] on the acreage that we have available to us. I think my biggest concern right now is that we find the place that is going to best fit best fit our needs and and that we've looked at everything that
we've looked at all opportunities here within town. And that's the only reason I brought that up is because I'm going through my head going, "Okay, where do we have vacant land that's that's currently not on the tax rolls?" So, we're not taking anything off the tax rolls because that's the last thing that
we really need to do. That's vacant land over there. We can put this bath on the tax roll. So, um, so we're getting a plus there. You know, if we go out to, you know, the wastewater. Um, yeah, I mean,
Commissioner Burton, you are right. I am I am a little concerned that we're have an opportunity there for a for what could be a very nice building that that we're going to tuck away. And that's the one thing that Crescent City does need I believe is
visibility of of um nitro buildings. Um [clears throat] but I think today that we need to in the essence of time that we need to go ahead and I'll entertain a motion if any of the commissioners want to make one as far as let's starting to eliminate and sometimes that's how you
come to your best um position is by eliminating eliminating. So, um I'm I'm going to open it up to that. And commissioners, that's pretty much that's pretty much um all I have to say all I
have to say on this subject. I I mean [clears throat] we eliminate for consideration the what would be the existing buyer station property the property that was the uh old pick and save and the only dealership um
for the new fire station. >> Okay. Would you just repeat that one more time? >> Um I sorry. Um, I move that we eliminate >> the existing >> the existing fire station uh location as well as the old Pon and the Old Hate dealership.
>> Okay. >> Florida and >> yes, Florida. >> Yeah. I just I don't see how it would work configuration. >> Okay. >> So, we currently have a proper motion
and a second. Do we have any further discussion on this? Do any of you have anything you would like to add to this before we move forward? Yes. Commissioner Devita. >> Sure. So my concern is regardless of what we eliminate. So we're saying we're
not going to design anything until we get a piece of property. We decide on it. Um but how do we know when we get that piece of property that we will be able to afford [clears throat] something that we need
that larger piece of property for? Um because we don't have square footage estimates. um in what Mr. Taylor has passed out and we don't have although our city manager has said that he will
get development estimates and quite frankly um I just saw two new fire stations that were built in the area that weren't even the main fire station that cost 89 million each [clears throat] >> here in town. No,
>> no, no. The one they just built was 1.7 million that they built out by the boy scout and that's a state-of-the-art >> and that included site work >> that included all the well yeah think the site work was a little bit more but still >> maybe 15. >> If we can't build this for $3 million
for what we need then shame on us and shame on Mr. Taylor. [laughter] >> Um I I think that and until we know the property I don't even know that he can design this. So correct. >> I I currently have. Do you have anything else you need to add to this? Um as far
as the eliminating roots properties. >> Yeah, I I agree with it. I think backing of the apparatus is going to be difficult on the highway. >> And um this this Mr. Taylor gave us was for the ambulance station
is the description, but this would go a long way to kind of give us what uh Commissioner De was talking about. I mean um but this is just a manual station. We have something because you're going to need this to do the design basically. So someone needs to
continue to work to create that narrative that the construction itemized list. >> So I mean we're going to get this because Mr. Taylor is going to have to have this summary of work before he starts designing. So you'll be able to provide us with something like us. Um
but I mean the configuration of it will be different based on the property but we do know what we want and the number of bays and the dormatory facilities all that kind of stuff. So I mean that's that can be put together but we
>> I'm going to I'll take I'll ask for if everybody is through with discussion. We're all through a discussion. Miss Taylor, if you would please do a roll call for us. >> Mina. No. >> Commissioner Lori, >> I >> Commissioner Moore.
>> I, >> Commissioner Burton. >> I, >> Mayor Meyers, >> I. >> Okay. So, approve. So, we know we've eliminated that. Now, as far as further action, [clears throat] do we want to direct staff to look at any additional locations?
>> Um, you guys, Commissioner [clears throat] was talking about the property that's across from um >> on Sherry Street. >> Oh, yeah. Milton M. and that property fellow spare properties. They just purchased that in the uh January of 2024 for $610,000
that parcel and several other parcels. So I I don't think that they want to sell it if they just bought it for $610,000. I don't know what their plans are for it. And but in looking at the um the wetlands um thing it does there is there is a I
remember when I was a kid going to school that there was like a lake over there now it's just all grown up but it is wet most of the water there is a there is a water flow that goes through there so I don't think that that property would even be
Um, see >> there there are other properties. I mean, there are it just it's going to cost some money, >> you know, that's all it boils down to. >> Well, and then there's this other property, I guess, down by a school, I guess. I'm not sure. Um, I guess we put the fire station right there where we
want to develop a nice little community down there. We can put a nice >> That's not where I'm talking. No, no, no, no. That's not where I'm talking. >> You're talking up on Prospect. >> No, I'm talking Yeah, Prospect, >> right? angry >> prospect in central >> not the five acres >> the north side yeah the north side
>> the middle >> I just think we're you just have to >> keep in mind okay that we are trying to make that >> I understand >> a nice >> I understand >> place to walk nice place to have a restaurant nice place to you know uh if
if we do keep the theater um you know >> we've got a fire station there >> a fire right there. I don't know how that new GC1 to CD one or downtown. >> It might not. And that was just something I that was just something I threw out because someone
>> mentioned to me about right here on the corner. I'm like, "Oh, oh goodness, no." Because that has so much potential right there >> that to put a fire station there. >> But I think the whole section has a lot of >> It does. We need to continue to try and
and get going. Yes. >> But but when you're talking about the school property, >> I'm just talking about everything. >> Okay. But we don't have anything to do with the school property because it belongs to the school and we're not trying to do anything there. >> So it and [snorts] it is done.
>> We don't have anything to do with the property either that Irwin has on there that was not included in that. >> But we're proposing to buy it >> and and with that we would have to propose something to the school district that they separated that out. >> That's for another discussion for today.
But let's I mean we got two left here on sheet. I suppose the win and the city are if that's where we want to leave it then we should just leave it here or [clears throat] we can take a vote. >> Um yes and after this vote I would just
want to know what you are asking staff to do after this one and we will get it done for you. If it's numbers it's numbers. If it's more information we'll do it and so you guys can finalize and we can move forward because our plan is to give the information to Mr. chair as soon as possible work with the state in
order to move the process as quickly as possible. I don't want to wait till 27. >> Mayor, if I could direction, I believe the city manager said he would get more precise figures from the county on the develop the infrastructure development
cost, right? >> Yes. um location [clears throat] >> as as well. If wait a minute, as soon as you have to look, you want us to choose the location and then >> have the location in order to to to see what that location will need and how
much all that will cost. >> We're we're going to have a footprint. I'll talk to Mr. Taylor. We'll have a footprint for both of these properties regardless. and I can get a square foot price based based on the total cost and back that into the square foot of the of the property on development side and we can come up with a a roundabout figure
on on both properties that'll be left which is the Irwin property and the city guard property. >> Yeah. So because if there's I mean you need to have the whole list of your costs so you see what is left over for
building. Um, >> but if we don't move soon, the costs are going to continue to cost get less for our money, too. >> And I'll be honest, it won't be detailed until we do get to a final property and a final design. This is going to be very
30,000 foot view based on square foot prices that the county paid for their most recent. And it'll just give you an idea. We'll give you a range and that range will have a percentage of error, 5 to 10%. >> And you you'll know what it'll be. And then we'll know based on the property
size what size building we're going to have and we have a square foot roundabout price for that as well and we can give you a an idea. >> May I add um the program that I passed out is two years old. Um and it's not
for this project but that's the type of thing that we would do in conjunction with the chief and the city manager and then it would help us to understand the scope of the work and it helps Mr. veto to be able to see what you're going to get. >> Well, I'm saying if I could, [laughter]
it's not just help me. I think the whole commission, >> the commission, I'm sorry, >> needs to have a clear idea and as well, we are spending money for the city of Crescent City. I think the public would like to understand. >> You're absolutely right. as a public entity, we are going to get
>> and if I could, mayor, I just think it is so crucial to make sure that everything is well coordinated that the city manager and his team create both a timeline for all the dates that need to be met, all the things that need to be
accomplished, who's in charge of what, what the deliverables are, and a running total of cost. >> Well, Commissioner Veto, Mr. Taylor is going to be our project manager, >> correct? he is gonna he's going to be the one responsible for this. He's the expert in this. Um Derek is not. And so
Mr. Taylor is going to be the one that is going to be he's our advisor. Is that correct? >> And and basically our project manager um over this and so he's the one that we were going to be relying on to to lead us in that direction.
>> Okay. But now wait a minute. It's a a budget timeline, a a narrative, a project timeline, I think, is within our city manager's grasp. Mr. Taylor needs to know into all this. Hang on just a second. I
remember distinctly. I mean, we and Mr. Martin are responsible to the state for this grant. Is that not correct? >> Yes, ma'am. Okay. So, when we were trying to get the original um
uh project off the ground, Mr. Taylor had a proposal for us and then it turned out there was an additional $70,000 that was not included in his proposal and I believe we had to use ARPA money to pay for that. So, um I
I think we have to be responsible for estimating our own cost and I just can't stress that for them. >> I believe we spent the initial 12,000. Is that correct? I believe it was 12,000 that was to go forward.
>> That was to go forward and resign, >> due diligence back in 2022. >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Whatever whatever what I'm saying, we need we need to keep our own running totals, our own timeline because there's nobody that is responsible to
the state ultimately but this city presents it. >> Well, and I think we all understand that, Commissioner Devito. And I mean, I would not >> I don't think any of us are sitting here saying just go ahead and just >> here's the money. We all have to be
responsible. This is this is the state's money. This is taxpayers money. And just like anything else we would do here in the city, we all have to be cognizant of that. And that's why we have to do everything as efficiently as we can. So for us to jump out there and spend money
to give you an estimation for how each property is going, that's going to cost money, too. That really I don't know that we need to spend. That's why today we said let's eliminate. Now I would commission before everybody. I know >> I've got to get >> you've got to get going, but I would say
that we've got these two properties. I don't know that I is even a viable option. But I think that as you go forward, um if there is any other properties commission, if we want to tell them that if they come across a
property, um please by all means, you know, bring that forward if you see something that would that would benefit. Do I have the peri permission from the commission to approach Mr. Irwin to open up discussions about acquisition?
>> Well, just it's a half a mill that's going to be coming out of the budget we have to build >> to build the what we're trying to do. That's a lot of money. >> I don't see I don't see that that's >> and additionally I just didn't include it in my motion because I didn't want to
make the entire decision right then. But taking that off the tax roles and any potential development is >> it's shooting us in the foot. I mean that that could be $100,000 a year in tax revenue um if it was developed as a a gas station >> and that's why it was in my report. >> Yeah.
>> And I just and I and I don't think that that's the right place either because you're still dealing going you know. So I I can make a motion right now to >> Yeah. Agree. >> I I move that we are that we go forward with the water wastewater treatment plant parcel property as the site for
the new fire station. >> I'll second that. >> Okay. Um Miss Taylor, if you would please do a roll call. >> Commissioner, nay. >> Mr. Lord, I. >> Mr. Moore, I.
>> Mr. Martin, I nay. Okay. >> I think we Okay. >> Um, y'all y'all have approved that though. So now, so that's where we're going to put it. >> And they can start putting some other come up with another option. Um, but of
the options we have listed here, I think that that's the right option. >> If there's anything that comes up, we have a time a time period of where we're collecting data and moving things. If anything comes up in the next 30 to 60 days, please let me know.
>> The way you worded that, that's the reason I voted against you because [snorts] the way you worded it, I felt like it anything any other options. >> Well, but the thing is we don't want to fail everybody and then 30 days from now, oh man, we
got to we change our mind, right? >> We can't we can't work like that. We'd have to get something solid. [snorts] >> That's the five options that we have that is the most efficient. That's the the winner. I mean, if we find
I'm not saying that that's, you know, the end off, but I think that that gives us something to work on and go forward. If we find something else, I think >> No, absolutely. Absolutely. I'm going to take a a forum a couple of minutes. I know Commissioner Burton, you've got to leave
us. >> Thank you. Um, and I have [laughter] >> I think Yeah, she can stream again. Okay. So, [clears throat] meeting is back in session.
Um and so we've got um I'm going to turn this over to you. >> Okay. Thank you. And and I apologize. [clears throat] Um no excuses during the holidays. I just did not put together a narrative for you all that had a summary of these items. My wish really was just
to bring these policy updates and draft form to you all as a read ahead uh in order for you all to just kind of see the language that we're talking about using. Um some of these have to do with city manager and also the commission. Therefore, I wanted to make sure that
you all had a say in this. I can't do this on my own. Um, and so, uh, this is really, again, to repeat myself, a read ahead, and I'd like to have these finalized before our February meeting. Um, there's a couple options. We can, um, do these by hand. You all can, uh,
email me individually with any markups. I can also send you um a uh an actual form via uh a link that you can have access to a live word document and I can track who makes those changes and uh and
then we can print those all up at a later meeting to decide, okay, yes, approve this one, no, deny that one, and then we can have a final document. >> This came about um because after that one special meeting we had and and Mr.
Martin sent me this and I said, "Did you read the very end of it?" Because it says the city manager has a final say. And there was nothing in here that that speaks to what if somebody has a concern with the city manager. Yes. >> Um or one of us as as commissioners,
even though, you know, we're basically all employees. Yes. >> In some fashion, but um but that was so that's really kind of what sparked this first one. Um, and I I agree after we had that that that occasion. Um, you
know, it was even you had actually brought up I believe Mr. Martin that the grievance procedure, you know, was spelled out, but it was not it did not include um something like that, which is obvious an obvious overlooked and
something that we need to rectify. Hopefully they'll never have to worry about it, but we need to have it >> in in the, you know, >> in the future >> that our employees have a safe place. They feel like if because you could have one that could be abusive or doing
something that they know that they've got somebody to go to. >> And so it's either my recommendation in this is they either go have the option to either go to the mayor or the city attorney. Okay. Um, I don't know how the commission feels about this and reading through it, but I really kind of think
that at that at that point, if it's against the city manager, um, >> that I don't know going to HR because HR answers to >> the city manager, >> you need someone that's outside. >> You need somebody that's more has should
have more of an objective. Um, >> and sometimes that would be the city clerk if it was a constant or a charter office, but it's not really a charter office in our charter. So, the city attorney would be that other person that operates independently >> and it's kind of outside of the cham
down in Tarpon. >> The clerk there answers only to the commission and not to Charles. Mayor, >> I have a couple questions. Um so for this um 2.03 policy
um is this something has Don Holmes reviewed this? So both of the documents have been sent over for review uh from for our attorney to review and I have not received back his recommendations um
from that review. I'm awaiting that at this time. >> So that's why we can't take action on it. >> Correct. Okay. Well, that's what I was asking. And then there was something that I particularly noted and made a
note of and now I am trying to find where my note is. Um, somewhere in here it talks about going to the mayor.
Does anyone happen to know where that is? That the mayor would be the person to >> That is Yeah. >> Okay. Here it is. Well, and this Okay. One one request you on. Uh I'm on 2.11 page that has a lot of red on it.
>> Um Okay. when you go um it's the last full text paragraph um that starts the grievant shall um says the city manager who may call
the mayor but it says what if my note says what if the complaint is against the mayor um because you always need a path you would want to give an alternate I'm assuming >> or the attorney or our city attorney. >> Yeah,
>> I think that's I think in any any regard to this, you need to include the city attorney. >> Yes, I would do that, >> you know, or >> and I think that even in in lie of the human resource person should always go to attorney there. >> Okay. The attorney is the only person in
our charter that is not under the purview of city manager, >> right? >> Um and so that would give >> like you were saying the city clerk, you know, in some and some cities are charter offices, right? Ours is not. um without a change to the charter. So currently the state attorney so I think
and I think that really is the right path on all this really if someone has you know the the normal procedure that we have set out you know and then if there's but if it's against the city if it's with the city manager or with the one of the elected officials then it
needs to go to the city attorney. >> Okay. But wait a minute wait a minute. Didn't Don say that he can't handle those things because he represents first and foremost the city as a whole? I
mean, he he declined to be involved and referred things. I I don't know. We're >> investigation that was with us sending out an investigation. I think initially he was the one that was contacted. Mhm.
>> Um I was contacted second on that, >> but he was contacted. >> Um I believe I believe he was contacted. >> We need to we need to ask and >> again this is this is on his plate right now. I will get with him and find out what the best options are for us. But I
like the direction it's gone and but you know it's it has the free will to be needed. But yeah, I think that the city attorney I mean to me I don't if you go to the human resources person and share your grievance or fill out the grievance
form and she you know she might not or he or she might not have the wherewithal to really I don't know. I just feel like the city attorney would be able to >> take action more so than the human resources >> or at least direct how the action >> taken. I I still like the human resource
aspect because it is human resource and having that capability to track and file in people's >> you know file uh when it is or would be against either myself or the commission that is a difference >> uh because there's I'm not taking that
out. I think still she would be the first she would be the first one >> first >> but once it ramps up and it's against you or it's against us or a board member we have board members I've included board members in here include board
members in here that could happen as well. >> I'll do that >> that um that you take them out of the equation. >> So two questions. So number one, I think when Blacka recently had complaints made against
their city manager, I think human resources handled that there for black. I'm just sharing that. >> Yeah. >> And it seemed to get handled. >> Um and well, that's an observation, not a question. Um but my other my question
is um does our insurance company does FMIT have any training or guidance for us on this? Do they have any policies um to share with us? >> I am sure they do. I have I but I don't
have that answer because I I just don't I have not reached out to them but I will I'm making a note of it now to do that >> because aren't they aren't they supposed to do um this came up when we had the proposals. >> I think they're supposed to do an
analysis or look at your risk or answer. They're supposed to advise us about some things and that might be a legal issue that they're not going to talk to you anyway. They're only going to talk to our attorney. So you can start with them because of that the legalities of that.
I know anytime I call even as the mayor they tell me they they only speak to the attorney attorney to attorney >> right at MIT. I what I was saying is they seem to indicate that they would look at your policies or do a review for you and as not asking them about a
specific question, but do they have recommendations for >> I have it written down already. types of policies. And then other than that, and this will probably change, the same page I was on where I had the question about
um having an alternate to go to if the complaint was against um the mayor. I think up u the very first full paragraph on that page that's in red um the third sentence, there's an
incomplete sentence. It looks like because either there's a period and then there's capital T. I just >> I think there's a comma and a and a capital T where it should be a lower case something.
>> It has the comma and the T. >> Okay. But anyway, so we're waiting. >> We're waiting on our city. >> Yes, we are. >> Oh, I'm not the best at punctuation, but I can see neither of the letters. >> Interesting. with your eyesight you're able to even see that but it is a comma
>> because it looks like it at first you're like when I was reading that zoom >> in zoom so this is just so right now both of these um we can't take we're not going to take action on them this is for us to go through them with you u Mr.
Martin has has mentioned that we've got some options. So, Commission, I don't know how you want to to do this. >> I think the the best thing would be first of all to for you to consult with Don and then rewrite this for the attorney, have the attorney as that
person that is contacted and then give us another copy of it. >> Okay. >> Um, she has a lot of green writing on her. You might want to see her too. I I [clears throat] will be >> I made some file. So >> I want mine in teal.
>> I used to always use green writing when I went to the newspaper because then I knew it was me that corrected it. But >> mayor, if I could at this stage when we're looking at a draft policy, I don't think we can send all our ideas or corrections into the city manager at
this point. I had that discussion with him earlier and I don't I don't think that that's probably wise for us to do that either, right? Um >> because you might incorporate some incorporated not others and he and I talked about that and I said the same
thing kind of like with our minutes. We shouldn't go in and make changes until we know the whole commission has decided that. >> Right. >> And and so the same consult on and rewrite that part with that and then give it to us again. Yes. Um,
>> and if we need to workshop it, have a, you know, a workshop before a meeting or whatever we need to do. >> Do you want me to disseminate that through an email once Don gives his blessing on it or his >> You can send us out the revive. That's all I would do is send us out the rev. >> Okay.
>> I think a lot of those things that we might have right now would change if you're going to re you change part change the focus of it. So I and I think you you need to get D's feedback first and then give us something. >> Okay. I guess we might suggest things that are not going to be kosher
aesthetic with, you know, but just give something that he's cleared and rewrite and then give it to us again. Yes. >> And >> I think that's my feeling. >> Derek also for um for some direction, you know, it's it's what does he bring to us because I know he's concerned
about giving us way too much information to have to compute, but at the same time, this is something that involves us. So, this would not be an internal policy decision. a decision that that would come to us. >> Correct. >> And so if you ever have that question or
if you've got to change something internally, if you have that question, you can always ask us. Not that we have to give our blessings >> on what you're doing internally sometimes. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Sometimes. >> Sometimes. [laughter] I definitely don't want to over extra
work and it's empathetic because >> Yes. Okay. But I have another procedural question here. So is this it says 2.3 policy prohibiting harassment. So is this taken out of our existing administrative policies and procedures?
>> Yes, 100%. Actually both of these the basis of both of these are >> well and then I I particularly have questions about the city commission reference guide. But I mean essentially it's my understanding our policies and procedures have not been updated since 2014.
We started it. Um this was before Commissioner Moore was here. >> Um but we have to approve those I believe by fourth vote >> for the um policy policies and procedures in the charter.
>> Four fifth vote >> I think so >> and not a majority. Well, number one, for sure, if it's a policy and procedure, then it can't if it's an official policy and procedure, apparently it can't be changed without approval of the commission,
>> right? >> Um, and then I would have to look again. I looked at it. I think it set up for this vote, but I can't swear to it. >> Yeah, we'll have to look at that and see that's that's asking for a lot. >> Okay. Well, maybe he does, maybe he
doesn't, but for sure >> those are supposed to come before the commission. >> We're just This is still drafting and get to a final. >> And I think what he is, what they have found is, and correct me if I'm wrong, Derek, um
is that to take this as a whole, it is a lot to And so they're going to go through it and bring it to us in pieces. Yes. and then compile [clears throat] the entire the entire policy and procedure as an updated document. Is that correct? >> Yes, that is 100% correct. There is a
lot of chapters, a lot of them. It's this thing. >> We're we're aware. >> Yes, we we had Mayor I have a request about preparation of documents. Um I was looking at the minutes in Interlockan and this would apply to any
document particularly um the the analysis that we had today of the potential fire station locations when you're doing a document it helps so much if you can have in the footer the name of the document the date of the document and the page numbers because if you have
something with no page numbers this hardware >> we don't know when it was last updated. Yeah, but I'm just saying >> most most if not all if you look at most of my documents I do that. I give you I actually put a file on there. Sometimes it it gets a little funky, but I try to
do that. This particular document, this was copied out of a larger PDF. So, I just took pages and there wouldn't be page numbers on there until we marry everything together. But I agree 100%. And then in general the filing helps because
>> when someone needs to look for it later if it's not you it's helps a lot on >> well for those [clears throat] of us who have paper I mean if you drop it on the floor you're lost if you're just scrolling through online >> you can't really tell anyone
>> page yeah so I mean going you know work in progress >> but it is a good habit I believe >> another thing Um, just for the just for the record and I've mentioned this to Derek is that
I've asked him for he and his staff and I think as we go forward that's something that we need to require of any city manager as they come in that they go through ethics training. >> Yes. >> So they have a full understanding what we have to go through. So I applies to them. >> It applies to them. That's what I said
to applies to them and it applies to their his staff too. So I asked him to find four hours um he and his staff can sit here and go through it. Gives you an hour and a half for lunch. Yeah. >> Um >> and Randy Mora is the one that usually does the FLC and it's actually he's very
dynamic speaking and keeps and every year even though it's the same guy and I I do the quarterly ethics things and it's it he keeps it interesting. >> We do it in a group right there >> because it's a webinar. not see you, you just see him and listen to him and it I
mean honestly it's some of the most boring stuff in the world but yet it is really important and there's a lot of it that's very tricky and a lot of it that you know you can very easily step away on that and you need to know these things and not just us I mean we're required by law
to do it once a year um but it applies to you applies to everyone >> and I I think that in that way you also know what we have to follow under the guidelines we have to follow like >> so you know when we're you know, make sure that we don't you're not inadvertently helping us step out of the line, you
know, without, you know, without understanding it. >> And I just in going through the ethics training um one of the things that it was a reminder for me and I think it's a reminder for all of us as a commission um and now it it's fixed, but I went almost a month without being able to
have access to my email and it was being hacked and it was being sent it was sending out. So, I'm now back on. But in the meantime, he had to anything he sent, he had to send it to my personal email. >> Right. >> In turn, I've got to make sure that the clerk has that. So, anything we do from
our personal computers, >> it needs we need to make sure if it's city related that we provide a copy of that to and I think it's just getting into a habit of just automatically copying the clerk when you send something out that's city related because she is supposed to have that as
as a record keep and I believe this is what commissioner does and what I think is a good policy or practice is if you anybody contacts you on your personal email IC or send to my city my city email and that way it's in there as the as the records for me to search because
I'm ceasing the clerk on everything. I don't want to bombard >> I'm just from your person but that's what I do. I just copy and if someone emails me, I forward it to my work one and then I'll respond from that because I try and very, you know, and I know commissioner and I both are on some, you
know, that PHS and stuff. We're on the same you know we email each other but sometimes you know I'm like oh she's using her personal email I'm using my personal email you know and we're not talking about city stuff and but like Danny Miller wants to send me something about something that's city related and I'm like Danny send me an email Lauren
city you know and but I'll forward it and then respond to it from that. So I know and I know you say because you're on Tony um and it is one of those things Yeah. that that Randy Mora has covered >> mayor that when you're locked out of your email it's a different situation
because you have no way of verifying like if you copy your city email >> you can't see that it gets there >> or where it goes. However, um I don't know where I read this, but it was something to do with it was either part
of an ethics training some I don't know where I read it, but it was um the procedure that another city was following. Um maybe I looked at it online. If we have access to our city
email, I don't think it's necessary if we use our personal email to copy the clerk unless it's some special something. I just copy my personal email because then it's in there as a communication. In other words, um like
>> so you send it to so if you do something you send it to your personal I mean your city email. >> Correct. And that would that would archive it. Just make sure that we've archived my situation. I was saying that I need to provide it to her because if
you ever in that situation, make sure you provide it to the >> because you can't see >> and that goes with Facebook too. Another thing on Facebook, too. Yeah. >> Right. Well, that that's a whole another thing. But um I use my Gmail sometimes because um I don't know what it is.
Outlook doesn't perform as well for me and sometimes I will write something and it will disappear. which is of course very frustrating when it happens at the very end. Um it's just easier for me to use Gmail. So I just I just copy it into my city email and
that's very help or it's not avoiding your drafts because Apple will never delete an email is it go into your drafts. It's just like Gmail in the same way because Gmail won't lose the document. >> It'll just it just goes by and it's not
my drafts. So anyway, um but regardless or if someone sends you something, you can just flip it. >> Okay. But >> if I may, mayor, so I just looked up that on our charter and it's it's section 3.07 07 on the administrative
code that the city manager shall propose to the city commission. Shall amend and adopt by vote of four fifths of full commission administrative code which shall set forth department organization for the city commission including charts shown chain of command allocation responsibility duties definitions nature
scope of each department and all required rules and procedures for administrating said departments. It's nothing specific on policy but it still sounds like it is a policy. It it sounds like it, but I didn't see anything specific to it. I will I'll talk to
>> I don't mind reading. I want to do the right thing, but I'm definitely not going to flood you off with >> that much. >> I mean, I think we're supposed to improve it because that's why we started >> we would have to we would have to and that's why I said
>> but if he's doing something that's not outside outside the policy and procedures, if he's you know, >> right? >> Yeah. You know, if you're if you're telling if you're telling everybody that, you know, your lunch hour, this is when I want you to take your lunch hour. You don't have to bring that to us. Just don't close the building without telling
us. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> We went through that. >> Yeah, we went through that. So, >> okay. >> Okay. Do we have anything else? Because we're all going to be together again on Thursday. >> Okay. So, we have this whole city commission reference guide thing.
>> Well, and I believe this is just your very first pass of this. This is I mean I know you've been working on it and and a lot of it you adopted from other cities correct. Um so I know that that's why some of the stuff is not accurate. I went through and made quite
a few notes either. >> I'm not sure we want to do this in >> I don't I don't have a couple comments but just hitting hitting the high points. Number one, um
to me this is um neither this is neither fish nor foul. It's not really a city commission reference guide. Part of it is just part of it seems to be changing our policies and procedures.
Um what what I think and this is my perspective. other commissioners may find may have a different point of view, but to me for a reference guide, particularly for a new commissioner. Um,
I think that it's too long. And to me, I would hit the high points. Um, and just provide links or copies of the documents. Um, it's just I don't think you need to to
have 50 pages. Some of it is some of it's very narrative. Um, and then I'm not really sure what's going on here. Um, some of it is contradictory. Um, one portion says you get your ethics
form from the supervisor of elections to be updated because right, but then the next page says it's online with the commission on ethics, which is a newer two years ago, >> right? But I'm just saying there's just there's way there's way too much in
here. You may as well just look like instead of describing the charter, just provide the charter. Charter is not that long, >> right? >> Um that would be helpful. Um I think from talking to others that a lot of what's in here, the onboarding is done
by the city attorney, particularly things like the public records law. Um and one one concern I have Um this is at the very end. This talks about um
five what is it? 5.9 benefits. Um what is it? It's the pa compensation page 57. This one is talks about compensation and the issue that we talked about at the um the December
meeting. the change apparently the change to our code that's section 2-22 compensation >> where it lays out the monthly salary and then paragraph C says that we're
entitled health insurance >> that's what our current code says >> that's what our current code >> says how did it get that way because BJU >> that is always the only thing that changed was the numbers that were there >> ordinance there's an ordinance >> the ordinance that was originally passed different numbers.
>> Okay. But the clause about health insurance has always been part of it since 1999. >> And now there is >> and and and so we did verify >> that that the commissioners can be covered under our insurance. Uh that you
all are full-time, if you will, employees by their guys. Um, this will be up at a different meeting, but just because we're all here talking, um, I'm going to be looking at the people who have coverages, reimbursing for set
coverages just like we do some of the others, um, uh, that are on Medicare. >> Medicare. >> Yes. Correct. And um with that being said, uh going back to uh this [clears throat] guide, if you will, the premise of this guide was really
thinking about u one of our new commissioners, just like Commissioner Moore, the how it would help her find information, give definitions. It can be anything that we want it to be. The bones of this is right out of Gainesville, city of Gainesville. That's
a lot longer than the one that we have right there. I I took the pieces out that I thought were most important. Um, but again, it's that's why it's in big bold letters draft. This is ours to create and for future generations of commissioners coming in and uh and it's
really just a helpful guide. We have our charter, our policy, those reference, those there will be mistakes in there because it's a first step. It's something that's going to take a lot longer than the time that we've put in it so far. like we don't have executive assistance and we don't have parking
passes all that but you know and I know commissioner might think that a lot of the stuff we know because we wanted to email an email too but >> when you're elected and you are initially you don't need to go to email that next day
>> all of a sudden you're sitting here make decisions and more some of this came from the email book even the directory and some of it needs to be updated too because it's old, but some of it also comes with that municipal officers handbook that they
gave us, you know, FLC and they've come out with the newer one, the new updated version. Some of it's all in there, but this is very I think it's it's honestly perfect. It's something that we have needed for a long time. I know when I was first sworn in in 2003 that I was
given a copy of the ordinances in the little black binders that um MUN code gives you and of course that was lost up in 2000 and even then it was really outdated and it was tiny and hard to read and we don't need to do that anymore um because online I mean there's
some and there's some links that need to be updated and some stuff but yes I mean I think this is a step I mean there's it's a very small audience this is ever going to be used or just people that are like there's five here or five positions, you know, >> and it's every two years obviously.
>> Yeah. And so, but I I really do think that that it will give and some of it is repetitious, but you know what? Repetition is how you learn things. >> But I do agree it needs to make sense. It needs to >> it needs to not contradict itself. >> Can be a refresher. >> Oh yeah. No, I mean I read through it and I enjoyed it quite a bit and there's
some stuff that just needs to be tweaked. >> Can I just clarify something because Commissioner Lori said what he thinks. I think um that's [clears throat] completely not true. Um I looked at this. I don't think that I I don't think
that this is what a new commissioner needs and I don't think that people get to go to EMO the next day because I know you did. You said, well, I probably think they said that this gives them they need before they get to what I say. What I am trying to say is I looked at
this from the perspective of someone who is new and I looked at what I got and I think in some ways um I think 50 pages is too long and there are still things in here um that I think are very
important to know like the responsibilities that are assigned to the commissioners. Um there's nothing in here about check signing. There's nothing in here about the CRA and the fact that we're the CRA board. >> Okay. I think before we get in the weeds on this, he gave this to us. I know he
gave this to us as a draft. I think we've already determined that to take this on in a regular meeting is just Yeah. >> But we we don't have that workshop. I I have to say you're not going to sit down as a new commissioner reading the whole thing, but having that at your fingertips, even
if it includes the top the the um >> the >> Well, no, not that, but Commissioner Veto was saying she didn't think it it needed to include the put the links in there and not include the documents. Sometimes that's so much easier if you have it there than to have to go and and
link it back and forth. Um, but I I do think that that as we go forward, this is a step in the right direction and we can improve this and and we all have >> it's a good first >> each of all five of us can bring to this document what we feel like we as a new
commissioner needed >> and it was beneficial to us >> and people. >> Yeah. And it's a reference and it's and we really are you're right, Commissioner Lori. We're the only ones that really can can um address that. I mean, even as a mayor when there was no mayor document
that was given to me as a mayor and all of a sudden I'm having to share something and and like you said, you got this engagement. A lot of larger cities do this or a lot of and a lot of small cities do this. I mean, it just it it's kind of like doing a citizens academy, right? You know, if you do a citizens
academy, then usually they require the new commissioners once they're elected to go through the citizens academy if they haven't because it gives you an introduction to city government. And we haven't gotten to the point where we're doing a citizens academy. I still think it would be a good idea sometime um because it just I I did county citizens
academy when I was in college. I learned more about government then I did in my four years going to administration got to see theology >> but we can definitely shorten it up. I know what you're saying. There are pages in there. There's an article that was written by a gentleman on ethics that
has to do with Florida League of Cities and it's several pages. >> That's what they had in there. I just included it. >> Hold on. there there's some things that personally I think uh Don needs to review or whatever. There's something in here. Speaking of the ethics training we
just took um that is flat wrong about how to handle a public records request. Um I think it's just flat out wrong. I would not want someone to use that as guidance. Um but the other thing that concerns me is and we brought this up in
the December meeting. How did the numbers the salary numbers has nothing >> get changed in the code >> during the recontification. Yes. When Mi code was doing it, I sent a proof to Charles Rug and Charles Rug went through with all the different footnotes. I can
give you a copy of it because I have a copy of it. He gave it to me to proof and then two days later I said, "Hey, how did you do on it?" I'm like, "You gave this to me two days ago. It's 396 pages." So, partially my fault I didn't get to read that that those two days, but I just
been elected. So, I don't know. But um you know they had been working on it for so long and Mico made everything copathetic made everything updated it to save off but there was always footnotes with questions um does this still apply? Are these are these the current rates blah blah because what happened was the
$400 and then the mayor gets $500 was what the salary was set for. And then the reason why we get paid $728 was and I can just tell you this from my experience for being in office in 2003 is I was told that was the insurance um
you know in in li of insurance. So >> back in 03 >> back in 03 that's what that's really the same amount now and so no but I'm saying but that's what this is. >> But this this is what I'm trying to get to because I asked Donna this directly
in the meeting. Okay, >> Charles can't just >> he did not do it intentionally. He believed that those numbers, >> but he can't do that. It what happened is something that the commission did or
said was missing and they didn't go back and find that. >> But there's an ordinance. If there's not an ordinance that speaks to it, >> it was passed in 99. >> Then is that if that ordinance stands >> right and he can't just write in a different number.
>> So what was the number before? >> 400 and 500, >> right? >> To go back to that number. >> Not supposed to tell us what you want. Do you want to go back to that number? >> I'm not saying I want anything. I'm saying you need to find out what
transpired. What I am told is, and I I don't think it's true that if there's not an ordinance because they also included in here resolutions, the commission took an action
to change the pay amount. And I think that we need to find what that action was and when it was. We have retired commissioners who may well remember. Did you not serve with Judy West? >> Yes.
>> Okay. But you can't [clears throat] just if you can't find the ordinance of the action, >> you can't just write it in and then pay ourselves insurance on top of that. >> I understand that. But the fact is we need to how do we move forward is what I
want to know because this is our adopted code. This is our proven adopted code because we passed an ordinance implementing this as our code and repealing all ordinances before. Right. >> That was what we passed. >> Yes. And we it was represented to us that it was
>> but that there's a mistake. There was humans and you know Charles is a human and he made a mistake. >> So we won't it was not intentional. >> Okay. >> I don't wait a second that salary those numbers are the same numbers before Charles.
Right. >> Those numbers didn't change. Charles didn't change those numbers >> that he just >> Yeah. He didn't come up with the numbers. That's >> those are the numbers that we've had and you've had, >> right? Yes, probably as long as you've been here, right? But it is from what BJ
is saying, the numbers were the salary plus >> the insurance differential >> plus the insurance differential >> that and that's where it's been in state for all this time which that would not be correct because if we were to be get
in if we were to be covered by the city's insurance now or get paid a payment in lie of that that would be very different numbers. >> That's very different numbers. >> Right. And so somewhere along the line, no one ever changed that, which I imagine that we've had that happen a lot of things. Um, but the fact is we need
to update this and we need to find out the way forward. And I don't know because there's also the the added disadvantage that our charter says that we can't change our compensation or pass it ordinance to change our compensation um until the next election or it won't take effect until the next election, but
it has to be 90 days before it. So that's why Don needs to tell us what we should do. I mean, obviously, it was not in this bank. It is not. >> And Derek, there's also some my understanding is there's some legislation. I'm very interested in this. >> I understand. I'm very interested too.
>> Yeah, >> we all are. We all know especially, you know, y'all are having to pay Medicare supplements or Medicare, >> but um there's also legislation is my understanding. >> Are [clears throat] you familiar with the legislation? I have read on some of
it, but I'm not familiar 100% with Okay. with what they have coming up. >> Okay. >> It's not coming up. I think it's already >> it's already passed. >> It's already passed. That was my understanding. And that was our insurance agent providing HR with that. >> Oh, yes. On you're talking about for the
recent request that we just made with our insurance company. Yes. So there was some recent legislation that had to do with the hours worked and that's what allows the commission to be able to get insurance through the city. Before they wouldn't do it because they didn't count you as employees that were full-time.
Now those hours have shifted and changed. So they they do say that you are full-time and can receive those services. What we're going to look at which I need to find out the history. I've been told that there was a stipen that was voted on a while ago that there's a stipen that was given >> the amount on top.
>> Correct. And that's where the delta is between two. So I'm going to get the information together, all of it, all the history. I'm going to bring it back to you all. We can make a decision how to move forward in that process. In the interim though, if you are eligible or
if you need the insurance, you're eligible. um we have to find out um how to get you in the door if that's the case because of the cut off times you know um to to for to enroll and we'll figure that out. I'm getting all that
together at this point in time right now. >> I mean you didn't do them while we were on holidays and everyone was closed. How dare you? I expected you to be working here 40 hours on Thursday. Do you think you'll have some some information on that? >> I will. That is my my goal is to have
cancer by by Thursday. >> But you know, like you said, a lot of this is a work in progress here. And I think that it would be very helpful once when a new commissioner comes on board and say, "Hey, look, and this is what you get paid >> because I didn't even know what I got paid until I got my first check
>> or got my first direct deposit. And even then, I didn't realize what the components of." And of course, on our pay stubs, it just says $728. It does not say $400 salary and $220 for a stipen and lose insurance. Um, >> always knew that was what it was was
from before. And I'm telling you too, as we look forward, as we go forward in getting >> people interested in and >> a lot of people look at I know when I talk to people about, you know, whether
or not they have aspirations for being the mayor or to be the commissioner. I don't want to, you know, that's not it's not worth what >> if you can if you have that bonus, that benefit, it would probably prompt >> some maybe some younger people too for stepping up and wanting to be in office.
And I believe the county for their commissioners, they're even part of the FRS, >> you know, don't have that kind of benefit. And they pay for their insurance at that lowle tier, at the first tier, right? >> Anything over and above that, they have to pay, >> right? But that's that's a benefit for
them. >> And you know, and that's something that as we go forward too, I think that that >> you know, you want you want people to want to serve their community and to make it worth it to them to come in here
to serve because as we all know >> it [clears throat] it is you are 247. You can't turn off being a commissioner. >> Um you know I I get phone calls at midnight, you know, 1:00 in the morning. And that's and that's and that's what we disclose to the insurance companies. >> Well, we we told the insurance companies
that you all work over 40 hours a week. I mean, whether it's on the phone, computer, inhouse, out in public, you're definitely I've talked to each of you after 10:00 at night on on different occasions for different reasons. >> I'm sleep.
Okay. I've got to get I have to get a document out, I think, by 5:00. So, on you. >> Yeah. So, if we have anything else, if not >> I just want to say, Derek, this is a great step in the right direction. I think this will be incredibly valuable. We know that it's going to take some more work. >> Sure.
>> Um I mean, but but thank you for tackling this because obviously this is a lot to take on and something that's out of the realm of day-to-day stuff. So, you're doing that and you're doing some good stuff in that and I appreciate it. >> And work with Don, make sure, you know,
that's that's very important. >> I will. And you know, um, you know, he's got Leo, too. So, >> he does. He does. Anyway, >> Leo, are young. >> Not that Don's not young. Not saying that. >> No, I'm just saying though that to share
that burden. I'm not saying that. I'm saying to share that burden. The wisdom Don has forgotten more than most people have. >> That's correct. >> Thankfully, to our benefit. >> So, with that, can I get a motion to adjurnn? >> I move that we adjourn. >> I have a second. Second. All in favor, please say I.
>> I. Okay. Thank you all. >> Thank you. Thank you, man. Appreciate you. >> This is still recording. Good. >> Oh yeah. >> It's challenging. >> Thank you, Pam. I did.
Thank you, Pam. >> You're welcome. [clears throat] Let me run over to you. Do you can use your mic? Did you guys turn the mic off? >> And then >> you're saying you need it to >> Yeah. I can put it in. Just do it to me.
>> No. >> You always ask someone to do it. >> Well, no. That's >> push back a little bit. You don't have enough room. Push back. Thank you. >> Somehow the mayor always gets it. There's like a little groove in the middle of that thing and gets it on
there. It gets it stuck. So I'm like I don't know how she does that. She does it every time. But no, that's perfect. >> That's right. >> Yeah, it should just be able if I get this caramel off. >> I was going to say you made a mess. >> Yeah, those are all
this way. >> So this way. >> Do you need your mouth wipes? >> Well, I got it here. I need I need my hand. >> Oh, how about how about this? You want me to put some water on? >> No, I think ice >> cuz it's caramel. >> Yeah, it's doesn't need water.
>> It tastes good.