2025. We as a commission operate under the Massachusetts General Law Chapter 131 section 40, the Wetlands Protection Act in chapter 26 of the Town of Neighbors General bylaw. It's the wetlands protection bylaw. After each applicant,
after each applicant presents his or her request and the board has had time to ask questions and discuss the project u we will accept questions from the audience. Because this is a public meeting, it is required by law that you give your name and your address before
you speak. Although we may disagree on the issues raised, all persons present during this meeting are expected to be civil to all other meeting attendees. This includes the members of the commission, staff, abutters, concerned citizens, property owners, and project applicants.
We also request that you confine your questions to the project and only as it pertains to the wetlands act. We cannot handle nor do we have jurisdiction regarding such things as noise or traffic. All problems not related to the Wetlands Protection Act and the town of Danver's wetlands protection bylaw must
be taken up with other boards. Our first order of business tonight would be the roll call. Peter Wilson is present. Lorraine Drapek. Mary Height present. Michael Splain here.
We have three members present which is a sufficient quorum. So we will proceed. Uh first up is a request for a certificate of compliance for 10 Rubeside Street Dile number 14-1424. The applicant is Christopher Farrell.
Good evening. Good evening, members of the committee. My name is Christopher Farrell from 10 Riverside Street, Danvers, Massachusetts, and I'm here tonight to request a certificate of compliance for an incind replacement of a retaining wall on my property as displayed here on
the screen. This application was in 2024, correct? The process was was started in 2024. Yes. And it's been completed. Yes, the wall has been completed. Um the only thing that's left over is the choir logs that I had put in place during the
construction. That's the last thing to come off the property. Machinery is removed. Um the property is is level and in stable condition. Um there's no more machinery. And as part of the special conditions in the um
order of conditions, um the railroad ties that comprise the previous wall have been taken off the property. They're not stored on the property. They're disposed of as well. So those are off the property as well. Okay. What did you say was still left to be removed? Uh no. So the the only thing that's
needs to be pulled out still is the the coral log, the sock that goes around. Um, I just left that in place until I knew I had a certificate of compliance. I didn't want to pull that out early. Um, but other than that, the special conditions have been met and the site is stable as well.
Okay, good. Um, and you've been out to view the site? Yep. Been to the site. No concerns. Okay, good. All right, Mike, any questions? No. Mary, I'm good. Okay. Uh, let's Someone can make a motion. We'll grant a certificate of compliance. I make a motion to issue a
certificate of compliance for 10 Riverside Street, DP number 14-1424. Is there a second? I'll second. All in favor? I I Okay, good. Thank you very much for doing everything in a timely manner.
Try to move fast and correct. Thank you very much. Thank you. Uh, next up is a notice of intent for 62 Chase Street, D file number 14-1442. The applicant is Jean Hartnett. [Music]
Good evening. Um, my name is Gan Hartnett. I am here tonight with my husband, Jonathan Hartnett. Um, we are the owners and residents at 62 Chase Street, Danvers. I am also the civil engineer for the project and
uh my driller is supposed to be joining virtually um in case anybody has any questions for him that I can't answer but hopefully he will join at some point during the presentation. Uh so I want to start by thanking Emily
um and members of the town planning staff. Emily, you've just been incredibly helpful back and forth for the past few months putting this presentation together. Um, also the engineering department, Stephen King, and Frank at the board of health have
all been great. Um, and I want to thank the members of the conservation commission. As a former member, I appreciate the work that goes into reviewing these applications and the time. So, thank you very much. Our project is for geothermal bore holes and
associated trench for residential closed loop ground source heat pump. And a lot of people that I've talked to aren't really sure. They haven't heard of ground source heat pump or if they have they don't really know what it is. So hopefully I do a good job of explaining that. Um,
next slide please. Tonight I'm going to talk about the site and existing conditions and some of the constraints that we ran into the proposed bore holes and the trench uh the waiver request the purpose and
need construction um and our alternatives analysis. Next slide please. So here is our uh existing home. It was built in 1952. well before any of the wetlands
protections act and it is primarily pre-existing maintained lawn. Um you can see the porter river this is the resource area. So we have the 200 foot riverfront area that goes basically all
the way through our site. I think it's only 300 square feet of our property that's not within the river riverfront area. We also have um tidal flats and the bordering bordering vegetative wetlands. And then we are also in flood
zone AE for part of the property and part of the project. Um so in yellow you can see this is approximately where the three preferred bore hole locations are going to be. And then I'm proposing two as backup just in case we
can't get the full depth. Um, and then this red outline will be the trench that connects the bore holes to our house. I wanted to show it on an aerial just to so that you could have a better sense of what the site looks like. We do also have a survey. So, um, next slide,
please. So, we uh had a wetland scientist out from Williams and Spargages and she delineated the wetlands um with wetland flags A1 through A10. You can see right here. Um and then we're also in the 200
ft riverfront area of the Porter River. So, that is delineated by the mean high water line which is elevation 4.1. Um and so 200 feet from that. And then also we are in the flood zone uh AE and that
is determined by elevation 10 from the FEMA flood insurance rate maps. Next slide please. Here is uh our survey with the existing conditions. So you can see the riverfront area is highlighted in blue.
The 100 foot buffer zone is highlighted in yellow. The 50 foot no build zone is highlighted in orange. 35 foot no disturb zone is in red and the wetland flags are in green. You can also see this heavy black line right here is
where the flood zone ends. This area is all flood zone. Um next slide please. So, some of the constraints we we would have preferred to have the bore holes be
on this west side of our property, but uh unfortunately there are two sewer lines that run along the edge of our property line and um I was talking to the town engineer and the board of health and we can't do any drilling
within 50 ft of those sewer lines. So that this is the 50ft offset which basically brings us here. Here is the house. Um so the whole left side of our house we can't drill. And then this is where the no build zone comes up. So
then we had to locate the the bore holes on this side of our site. Um next slide please. So a little bit about the bore holes. We are we
are only disturbing 417 square feet of area which I think is pretty good. Uh it's only 4% of the total riverfront area on the site. The all of the bore holes are outside of the 50 foot no build zone and they are outside of the
50 foot municipal sewer line offset. And some areas of concern why we're here is the work is between 100 and 200 ft in the riverfront area. It is completely within the 50t to 100 ft wetland buffer. Our
alternative bore holes four and five in case we can't get the full depth on the first three are and 54 ft of the trench are located within the flood zone. And we are requesting a waiver for 10 linear feet of the trench which will be within
the 50ft no build zone just because we have stairs coming down from our deck and there's less than 3 ft between the stairs to our deck and the 50ft no build zone. So we really are trying to squeeze through that that little area and we
have to go a couple inches into the no build zone. Um actually if you go to the next slide I have a blowup of that. So here okay here in the magenta is the limit of work. So we have four holes one
two and three are our preferred locations and then we have four and five in case we can't reach that full depth and proposed straw waddle as erosion control. Uh if you go to the next slide please.
And so this shows one two three all outside of the flood zone outside of the 50ft no build zone. Um and then this is the trench that will connect all of the bore holes to each other and then go to
the rear of our house and go through our foundation into our basement to a utility room. So here are the stairs coming down from our deck. Um, and we have only 2.96 ft between the steps and the no build zone. So, we really are
only going a couple of inches into the 50-foot no build zone. Next slide, please. So, again, we're proposing three 380 foot closed loop bore holes for a total
of,40 ft. Closed loop means we will not be drawing from or discharging to the groundwater. They are 4 and 1/2 in diameter bore holes all the way to bedrock and they're spaced 20 ft apart. Bore holes f four
and five are to be permitted as reserve locations in case the full depth um for one through three with a total of 1140 ft cannot be reached. We are locating the bore holes as far away from the resource area as we possibly can. Straw
waddles proposed for erosion control. We're under 500 square ft of disturbance and no flood storage will be lost due to construction because all of the the piping and the wells are subsurface
underground. And then we'll be regrading and replanting um to meet existing conditions. So we're not adding any more impervious area. Next slide, please. And this is a little bit about our waiver request. So again, we're going
into the 50oot no build zone. Um necessary because of where our stairs are located. Next slide, please. And our purpose and need. Um so our home is currently heated by an oil furnace.
Our home was built in 1952. So, uh, our oil furnace is original to the house and it's extremely inefficient and unreliable. So, we will go away for a weekend in the winter and come back and have no heat, no hot water. So, uh,
towards the end of the winter last year, we knew it was time to start thinking of how we were going to replace this. Um, so we want to replace our oil heat with an efficient environmentally ground source heat pump because the geothermal
bore holes use the yearround ambient temperature um, underground of approximately 54 degrees to heat and cool our home and also can be used for our domestic hot water. Next slide please.
And what is geothermal? It is a liquid. The liquid solution in the pipes will be heated or cooled by the ground temperature. The liquid in the pipes is a non-toxic mix of water and antifreeze. The pipes are sealed and nothing will
escape or leak into the ground. The liquid is piped to a heat pump in our basement to heat or and cool our house. So, I don't know if you can see this, but it's um here's like an example of the heat pump, and these are the wells, the the
bore holes. Um so, the if it's winter, the the the liquid will go down and be warmed because 54° is warmer than the air temperature in the winter. So, it will
use that 54 degrees as a base and then electricity will warm it the rest of the way to say 70 or whatever you set your house at. And then in the summer, the air is hotter than the ground. So, it will take that 90° air or however whatever the temperature is. um we'll
pass it underground and it will cool down to 54° and then will go back to the the pump in your house and circulate throughout your house to cool it. The liquid will circulate from the ground through the compressor in the heat pump,
further heating it in the winter and then transfer to the rest of the house. In the summer, the heat pump works in reverse and it extracts heat from the inside air and transfers it to the ground, cooling the house. It can also be used to heat our domestic hot water.
The liquid then travels back through the wells underground in a continuous closed loop. So the same liquid is constantly recirculating. It's not taking any water from the ground and it's not putting anything into the ground. It's a totally closed loop system. Next slide, please.
Okay. Just give me one second. I just need to stop sharing this one and then pull up um the next one here. Just give me one second. Okay. So, this is a video taken from the US Department of Energy that explains how geothermal thermal works. Um, hopefully can do a little bit better of a job than
I did. And just to be aware, it's a horizontal system in this video, so it looks like a lot more sight work and excavation than we're doing. They do show a vertical system towards the end of the video. One sec. I just got to get some sound on
this here. Hang on. All right. One second. Um Oh, yeah. Yeah. Just got to figure how to get the sound to play on this. I'm sorry. Stream just I thought the house
Sorry, just give me one second. Yeah, I'm just trying to get the sound to play on the video that's up there from my computer. Um, and you're unmuting the Yeah, I tried that. It didn't work. Okay. Um, do you know a different way? Okay.
If it doesn't work, it's okay. Okay. Um, I can try through the link that you had emailed me this morning. Just give me one sec. Let me see if that'll work. Trying to play the video. Is the sound that essential? Could we get the idea from Oh, yeah. Good idea. Uh,
if you click CC, um, let's see if that works. One sec. Um, thank you all for your patience here. Let's see. Unavailable. Okay. Um, see if this works.
One second here. One sec. Sorry guys. I I can also just continue. Okay, this give it just one more try. Okay, one more. It is a neat video. Let's see if we can do this here. Stop sharing and then
try one more thing. Okay, let's see if this works. Are you able to get any sound from it? And while we're waiting, you should ask whatever questions we would have. All right. I have some questions. Go ahead. Then Mike, I can finish the rest of my
presentation. Okay. Do you want me to go back to your your slides? Yeah, please. Okay. All right. Sorry about that. It's okay. That was just an extra. Okay. video explaining how geothermal works. Hopefully I explained it in the
previous slide. Um, so next our driller is Rototech and I still don't see Kim, but that's okay. Uh, they are located out of New York. They are Massachusetts registered well driller.
Um, the company was founded in Finland and have been operating in Europe since 2007. So I know Europe and especially those Nordic countries are usually far ahead of us as um as far as renewable energy goes. So they started a company
in the United States in 2023 and they've been operating here ever since. I know of projects they've done in New York, New Hampshire, and they've done some in Massachusetts as well. So even though it hasn't been long time, they they do have quite a bit of work here. Um, and so we
also had to apply for a well drilling permit from the Danver's Board of Health and that is in process. So the construction sequencing step one is the erosion control. Most importantly, we will be using straw
waddles as our primary method of erosion and sediment control. They're placed on the downhill side of excavation and installed perpendicular to the slope. So the way they work is the if they're perpendicular to the slope, the water
will run down and the straw waddle will act as sort of a filter. So, not only will it slow the water down before it goes to the other side of the straw and enters the resource area, but it the straw will also trap all of that
sediment and deposit it on the this side of the straw waddle so that it doesn't get carried out into the resource area. Um all excavated material will be placed on the uphill side of the trench just so
that it if it does get washed out it will get washed into the trench before it gets washed to the straw waddle or the resource area. Uh the waddles when they are installed will be placed in a shallow shallow trench 2 to three inches deep just so that they have that good
contact with the ground and no water can get underneath. They um they'll there there will be two foot long stakes installed at 4ft intervals along the straw waddle just to secure it in place. Consecutive straw waddles will
overlap by a foot so nothing can get through the gaps. They're typically 8 to 10 inches in diameter and the erosion control will remain in place until the growing surface returns to existing conditions. Um so we're planning on
replanting grass there. So depending on what time of year we finish up, if it's still warm enough, we'll do hydro seed to get the grass growing as rapidly as possible. Um, but otherwise, we'll be placing sod because that can be
installed even in the dead of winter. Next slide, please. Our additional storm water BMPs, uh, we do not use any chemicals on our property. We don't have fertilizers on our lawn. and we don't even have
irrigation. So all of that helps the the water resource area um be more healthy. It reduces toxic runoff, protects the groundwater, pretends prevents utrification which is um excess nutrients running into the water and
causing algae to grow which degrades the water. We also have rain barrels. So right now we have three rain barrels existing on our property. on two of the corners of our house and we're actually going to be adding two more so that all
of the corners are covered by rain barrels and that pres prevents the rainwater from becoming surface runoff. Next slide. Um, also to handle the water from drilling, we will have a water dumpster and that arrives prior to drilling. It's
12 ft long, 7 ft wide, and 7 ft high, and will be placed in our driveway. It can hold up to 5,000 gallons of water. Um, so when they start drilling, they will attach to connect to the hose on like the faucet on the outside of our
house and use that water to bind all of the dust and the cutings from drilling. And then it will get pumped into this um system. It captures the stone cutings, soil and water, both underground water
and portable water and passes through baffles to separate the particles. So it will actually slow the water down. And having the water slowed down, it will allow the particles in the water to settle down to the bottom and then the clean water will continue to and it's a
series of chambers. So it will uh continue to improve the water quality as it goes through the system. And then the clean water is pumped out to the surrounding grass up to 300 ft away um by this long hose that you can see there and to be absorbed by the surrounding
soil. The water discharge location is going to be all the way on the left side of our property, farthest away from the river. And we also had to get a storm water permit from engineering and I submitted that to Stephen King today. So
that permit is also in process. Next slide. And next is the drilling. Um the drill rig is 20 ft long, 6 ft wide, and 9 ft high. It's actually 21 ft when it's
erect and drilling. It's similar size to a pickup truck. and that can be parked on the pavement. It's a lot smaller than a traditional drill rig which is 40 feet long. Um we originally were trying to work with a different driller and that's
the only type of machine and they had the 40 foot long one and it was really restricted in being able to get to our site. So we had to find another driller and they're able to get to much more remote locations. Um, so the way it works is they park on the pavement and
then they have a 150 foot hose. It's a pneumatic drill, so it uses pressure in the hose to be able to bore down instead of having the whole drill rig be over the hole that they're drilling. It requires access to pressurized water and
electricity, as I said. And the drilling, looping, and grouting will take approximately 2 to 3 days, depending on how many bore holes we actually need. Hopefully, we only need three and it will be two days. The working hours will be 7:00 a.m. to 7:00
p.m. And also to note that there will will not be any road closures or police details needed for this um at any point. Next slide, please. Uh step four is the pipe insulation. So
after the drilling is complete and the vertical pipes are installed, then the horizontal pipes that connect each bore hole to each other and to our house. Um the trench will be dug for that. The trench is 4 to 5 ft deep so that the
pipes are below the frost line and it's about 3 ft wide. Um they're it's dug with a mini excavator and then the subsurface one and a quarter inch horizontal pipes connecting the vertical wells and it turn will terminate one to two feet inside of our foundation and
connect to the heat pump in our basement. The trench is backfilled with excavated material and then rough graded and planted to match existing conditions. The timeline for that is 2 days. The working hours are 7 am to 7
pm. So in total the two to three days the first week and then the two days the following week it's under two weeks of construction um and really only four or five days. Next slide please. We did an
alternatives analysis. So first was where our priority location for the well the bore holes would be. So, we couldn't locate them on the left side of our property due to the sewer pipes. Um,
logistically, it was not possible. So, we had to locate them closer to the resource area. The second alternatives that we looked at were uh were replacing our oil furnace with another oil furnace, replacing it with gas or
placing it with propane. Um and all three of those I couldn't in good conscious conscience move forward with um being a civil engineer I'm lead accredited that's leadership in energy and environmental design just knowing
the environmental impact of the fossil fuels they are known to be the number one contributor to climate change um they're not renewable or sustainable so we didn't want to move forward with those options then we looked at doing
electric heat. So, electric heat and then an air source um heat pump and mini splits, but the operational cost of the electric heat is much higher and it's not as efficient. The air source heat
pump is not as efficient as the ground source heat pump because the air temperature fluctuates a lot more than the ground temperature. Um and also that would use a lot of electricity which would be a burden on the municipal
electric grid. We are however using the best available measures. We're using a closed loop system. So we're not drawing from or discharging to the existing groundwater. It's a continuously circulating mix of non-toxic antifreeze
and water. Um we're using vertical wells instead of horizontal a horizontal system. So we minimize the amount of excavation. We are also using the track machine to drill the bore holes instead of using
the big 40ft machine. We can keep the machine on pavement and so it won't have to disturb as much of the grass. Um and the benefits of geothermal are it is what what people consider green energy. But what does that exactly mean? It
means that it's reliable and efficient. It uses the earth's natural heat and consistent heat to cool and heat our house. Um, it has higher efficiency and a longer lifespan. It is sustainable which meaning which
means it does not deplete the earth's resources and it's renewable which means the earth is always producing this underground heat. It eliminates fossil fuels from our house, reduces CO2 emissions, and has a lower operating cost. Next slide, please.
So, this graphic is taken from um a publication from the Harvard Kennedy School back in June 2024 called opportunities for cost-effective residential heat pump adoption in Massachusetts. and it shows this is the
comparison of electric heat to ground source heat. So depending on where you are in the state, your annual savings will be anywhere from 0 to 2900. So we're up in this area and um next slide please. I went to the table that shows
town by town and the town of Danver. So you can see this is ground source heat pump in comparison with electric heat and The town of Danver's on average users would save $2,859 annually for ground source heat pump
versus electric heat. Then it also shows the comparison with oil and natural gas. a little bit less. And then um over here shows the coefficient of performance which is the
ratio of the output compared to the energy input required to get the same um heating and cooling and air source is 2.9 and ground source is 4.2. So it the coefficient of performance is a lot
higher for geothermal. Next slide please. Last month, we had uh a home energy audit done by Energy New England, and they sort of came up with around the same numbers that we would save $2,47
annually if we switched to a geothermal heat pump. Um, and also compared our energy use. This is the a an average home in Massachusetts is around 125. We're a little bit higher than that, but switching over, we would be way down to
32.5. And then our carbon footprint. So, we're a little bit lower than the average of 9.7. It's I think it's tons per year. That's a little too small for me to read, but um 9.4 currently all the way down to 2.2. So, that's significant uh benefit
to the environment. Next slide, please. And finally, this is a quote um from the USD guideline for ground source heat pump wells. It says, "Discharge wells for openloop ground source heat pump systems and wells used for closed loop
ground source heat pump systems are classified as class 5 injection wells by the US EPA and the mass D underground injection control program. If installed, operated, and decommissioned properly, such wells have been determined to pose
to not not to pose a significant threat to the environment. Next slide. Um, thank you. That's my presentation. Questions and comments. Okay. One quick question that comes to my mind with the uh that filtering
mechanism you had for the spoils from the u the drilling. Mhm. Where will these spoils end up? So, uh, they will remain in the dumpster and then when the driller is finished, they'll take that away. So, they're they're taken off site, you know. Yeah.
Okay. Um, no, very thorough presentation. I really don't have a whole lot. Mike, you have any questions? Just a few. The um, how was the depth chosen? You chose a particular depth. Is that Okay. Yep. Um, so we worked with an HVAC
contractor and they did it's called a thermal J of our house which basically determines the size of our home you know the amount of windows that we have the insulation and what size heating system we would need. So our total is 1140 ft
of depth for those pipes in the ground. So they just sort of arbitrarily chose three at 380 ft make up the 1100. Yeah. because that's what they think that we can get in this area. So that's why I added those two extra as backup just in case we can't get that full
depth with the first three. So they would be in addition too. So if you only got to 250 then you could add two more. Exactly. And how much more work would that require if you had to add more? It would probably be another day of drilling. So that's why the more trenching and
No. So, actually, I located those two alternative bore holes in the path of the trench that it would take anyway. Um, so yeah. All right. So, um, when I first read this and I'm thinking of wells, I thought you were going after wellwater.
Yeah, I know. I I really should stick with the term bore holes because they actually are not wells, but it it's sort of interchangeable in commonly talking about it, but they really are just holes for the pipes to go into. Wells
incidentally, what if you were to hit well water? It wouldn't matter. So often times we do hit water and that's what that big green dumpster is for. It will take the ground water and um filter it so that we can discharge it back to the ground surface. And then
there is a a steel casing that goes into the hole all the way down to bedrock. Uh and the pipes are installed inside of that casing. And then there's a casing cap to prevent radon coming up from the surface to prevent groundwater
contamination and to prevent any movement of the pipes within the bore hole. And all the connections are done uh at the underground or the frost line. But those are just straight holes. They don't circulate amongst themselves.
So the on one of the slides it shows it, but it they do. So they it has one pipe that goes down and then it turns around and goes back up so that you get that sort of double a loop interaction. Yeah. It's a loop and then it will go to the next one and loop down and back up.
They're in a series sort of. Yes. Yes. Exactly. And and what is the the solution or liquid that's being circulated? It is a mix of water and non-toxic antifreeze just so that in CA you know if we get a deep deep freeze below this
frost line that the liquid doesn't freeze because that would be catastrophic for the system. Yeah. Right. Let's see. Um the trenches you dig uh will be to get below the frost line. Correct.
Yes. And that's where you'll uh they you connect the pipes. Yep. And then what was the um the connection to the utility room? Why was that? Yeah. So the the pipes where the liquid is circulating will have to go through
our foundation and then there's um a machine in our basement that takes that liquid and transfers it to our heating system in our house. Say that one last pot again. So the the pipes that have the liquid in it, right? Um like like say a water utility or gas,
it goes through our foundation into our basement and connects to a a heat pump. It's a machine that will use the temperature of the water solution and um just has it has a better temperature to
work with because it's always 50 something degrees. Now the the heat pump of course will have to run on electricity but that's right but it will it will use substantially less electricity than an air source heat pump which is the range
of temperature you know it can be 90° outside it could be 0 degrees outside and you're always trying to get the opposite of if it's hot you're trying to get cold if it's cold you're trying to get hot where the earth is how are you distributing the heat or the cool so we are going with a water to water
system, which means we're not using ducts in our house. We're using wood. It's Yeah, it's sort of like a radiator, but it also does cooling, but yeah, it's um it's radiator units.
Um All right. The uh drilling, is it noisy? Yes. So, I mean would be we probably want Oh, there you are. Yeah, I keep looking for you. I know. I know. You probably wanted some condition about when the drilling would take place. It's I mean the work hours are 7:00 a.m.
to 7:00 p.m. So if the commission is agreeable to that with the applicant, um just make sure that no work is outside of those windows. Yep. If that's okay with the commission, too. What are the 7 a.m. to It was 7 a.m. to 7:00 p.m. is what had been proposed for the
Is that what we do on a Sunday morning? You wouldn't be drilling. No, it's during the week and holidays. Yeah, I hear banging outside of my window at 7 a.m. and it would only be a couple days, one week, and then a couple days. This is a quick installation,
right? Yeah. No. So, that's uh that's all my questions. You did you did a wonderful presentation. Uh and uh I learned something too. So, it's good. Just I just another quick question. not really
impacting the wetlands or whatever, but how many of these systems are installed in dampers? Now, I looked at um Massachusetts has a well registration and it looked like there were five systems installed in Danvers.
One of them was for Northshore College and one of them was for Essex Tech. I believe only three of them were residential. Are those for wellwater or for your system for closed loop geothermal? Yeah. So hopefully after this uh it becomes
you know more widely known that this is an available option. One other may I one other question I almost forgot. When you dig the trenches that how how far down will you go? I know you're going below the frost between four to five feet. All right. And then uh the soil you
remove uh you will reuse. You'll reuse it to re will fill back in the trench. Yep. Yeah. And there how long between the time you dig the trench and refill how much? Couple days. Couple days. Yeah.
Okay. Thank you. And you're going to store that soil on the uphill side of the trench. Yeah. We don't want it. Okay. I mean, as a former conservation commission member, you've done a federal job. Thank you. Uh Mary, any questions? Um yeah, so I just have a couple things.
Um so I love that you did the just a small area in the 50oot buffer zone. That was awesome. Um and when I read through things, it said they were proposing three to five closed loop wells. You're doing three, right? with
we are we know we need three to reach the total depth between the three of 1140 ft but sometimes they'll run into like the driller was saying down the Cape they often times run into a lot of sand and then the holes just start to collapse on
themselves which probably isn't the case here but I figured since I'm here I might as well ask for the two extras just in case. Yep, that's perfectly fine. Um, and I just had a question about the system itself where you're close to saltwater
um, and the increase in elevation of that. Um, is it my assumption is that the system is protected from saltwater intrusion. Yeah. Yeah. So the are you talking about saltwater getting into the groundwater? Yeah.
Yeah. So when we drill um there are steel sort of like hollow straws that will go inside of the holes all the way down to bedrock and they're grouted in place which is like a concrete slurry
mix so that they're basically concreted from bedrock all the way to the surface and then there's a cover on that casing so that uh radon which is a like poison poisonous gas can't get up from the ground so that nothing can go in and
contaminate the groundwater and so that the pipes and the casing don't move. Very cool. Thank you very much. And um nice job. Thank you. Uh okay. Is there any public comments or
questions? None. Um what does the board think? Sounds like a sounds like a good project to me. Yeah. Uh okay. We have three different things that we need to vote on then. Uh the
first would be I can find the public hearing. We have to close the public hearing. Yes. So if someone can make a motion to that effect. I make a motion to close the public hearing for 62 Chase Street Dumber 14-1442. Is
there a second? I second. All in favor? I I Okay. Why don't you just keep going, Mary? Yep. I make a motion to grant a waiver to allow work in the 50 foot no build zone for 62 Chase Street, DP number
14-1442. Is there a second? Second. All in favor? I I I don't know if we have additional conditions. I don't think we hearing all the questions. I don't think there was anything that really came up. Not to my
memory at least anything special just the work would be done within the 7 to 7 um do you want to do that motion we talked about the storage of the soil that do you want to do that one for the motion with the two conditions uh well she said it's part of the
project is that in the the application soil that's already there we don't need that and the the timing I'm not sure that's within our jurisdiction but it sounds like uh I mean they're doing you know, similar to what other construction projects.
When are you starting the project? As soon as we can. We are hoping to have this up and running before winter. And then also all of the incentives for heat pumps. Yeah, I was going to say there must be incentives and uh they're ending January 1st. So, we're
trying to get, you know, in before all the incentives incentives are good till January 1st. And what you have to reapply or something? No. Um, the administration has ended all incentives for renewable energy. Well, let's say what if you don't get it
done by then? Are you still going to do the project? Yes, you are. We just won't get as much money back or any money back. It's going to work out. Thank you. Okay. So, I guess there were no additional conditions. So, why don't we
just make a motion to uh issue an order of conditions? I make a motion to issue an order of conditions for um 62 Chase Street, DP number 14-1442.
Thank you so much. Second. I second. All in favor? I I Thank you. Okay. Good luck. Yeah. Good luck with that. Take lots of pictures. We want to come back and tell us how it worked out, will you?
Oh, great. Thank you. Okay, on to number three. A request for certificate of compliance for 35 Dodie A D file number 14-0883. The applicant is Edward Dherty. And I
see that our friend Bob is here. Bob Griffin. Uh good evening. Uh Bob Griffin on behalf of Mr. and Mrs. Doherty. Um we had a sitewalk, you may recall, in August and we uh looked at the asbuilt
plan and the conditions. Uh there was some things that had uh been built without uh previous filings. I think that was of some concern and there had been some encroachment of uh BVW with a little bit of lawn near the
pier. Uh and so uh we discussed at the sitewalk um trying to mitigate for that and a suggestion was made to consider a pollinator garden. Uh we did add a pollinator garden next to the garage. You might recall when you came down the driveway, there was a sort of a
stone enclosed area that looked like it had been a garden at one point in its life, but there really was nothing growing in it. Now, so that looked like a convenient spot. Um, so we added that there. And there's some specifications on the drawing about the type of plants that go into a pollinator garden. We
also specified about a 375 ft square foot uh upland shrub bed here. Uh the shrub bed would have um some uh shrubs that are suitable for uh bird habitat. Uh so there was some ink berries, some winter berries, blueberries, and a few
other things in that um shrub bed uh that are listed on the lower part of the plan as well. Uh and and um the other thing that came up during the uh sitewalk was a discussion about the pier and uh I had some subsequent conversations with the harbor master
about uh how to deal with the fact that the size of the float out there is bigger than was originally permitted and we really uh were unable to come to any uh sort of agreement on how to address that. So, I think the best course of action on that certificate of compliance
is just to withdraw the application at this point in time and we'll file a after the-act notice of intent to basically keep the the uh float at the current size and so then it'll be properly permitted and I think that resolves his concerns. So, that was the
the story on the pier and I I hope you uh find these additions to the asbuilt plan satisfactory. If uh if you do, Mr. Dhy's prepared to proceed with this work. uh as quickly as possible. Two things, Bob. Uh
with a whatever you called it, the notice of intent for the peer, right? Uh I mean, is that akin to coming in with a new application for a new pier because I mean that pier did not meet our current regulations. So I think
sorry, not the pier, the float. The float. Um we could consider making some improvements to the float as part of that process. Yes. Yeah. The uh well, he wants to withdraw. So, that's that. That's down the road. That's just a question that I had. Y
and then uh another issue that I have with this particular plan is that sports court how big of a deal is to remove that? I mean, I just that's just that's building within the the the within our limits
just way asking to to happen. So, I'd like to see that removed. Okay. So that area was, you know, previously a a sort of a mult playground area with a play structure when the kids were younger and then it got converted into the sport court as the kids became older. So there was always something
there. Um I I haven't really spoken to Mr. Dohy about removing it completely, but I'm certainly happy to do that. Um but uh you know I wonder you know can we reduce it in size to something you know it's more suitable for a play area for you know I mean there's at some point
there's going to be another family in here. There's going to be more kids in here. I'm sorry. What do they do with it? Bob, what do they use it for? I I think right now the kids have are at college agent, so they're not using it for much at all at this point in time. But Bob, my theory is that it's just
it's just an area waiting for someone to put some kind of structure on and junk get stored there, whatever, you know, down the road. All right. I I'd much rather see that return to a a quote unquote natural state. If it was a a mulch area for kids to play in or a swing set in a mulch
area, that's fine. It's just that concrete there is just it's not sitting well with me. Fair enough. I'll I'll have that conversation. It's an invitation for a structure. Is that what you say? Yes. So, you haven't seen it, Mike. It's It's substantial. And it was It was How many square feet
was that, Bob? Three or 400 at least. Yeah, it Yeah, it looks like it's about the size of a two-car garage. So, probably 400 to 500 feet, I would guess. Is 108 compared to that? Okay. So, that if you just convey that
to Mr. Guardian and just uh I guess if that being said, uh we probably would want to be continuing. Yes. Is that right? Yeah. Yeah. Continue until we entertain a motion on the the
his request for the withdrawal. That was You did that at the last meeting. We already did that. Yep. That was already about a week. All right. Good. So, why don't we just proceed in our normal course of events here? Just Mike, if you have any further questions, go ahead. Now's your time. I don't have any right now. No, he's um
he's going to look into removing. Now you're talking about breaking that concrete up and pulling it out of there. Well, it's not it's not um it's not a slab of concrete. It's like pavers, but Oh, pavers. Oh, that's easy. Two foot square. But there there is some sort of like
stonemasonry wall around most of it. So, if we're going to take it out completely, we're probably going to have to lower the grade a little bit and probably replace some of that with lawn or something like that. Right. Um it's it's a significant work, but I'll certainly speak to him about it. And then yeah, I mean beyond that, I I'd
like the idea of the the shrubs and the uh and the the pollinator garden. Okay. But then you after you come back with your answer to that, we still have to work out the details of how we're going to make this work to guarantee that you know what we're asking for takes place
after. Do we wait two years to offer a certificate of compliance? I wait until the mitigation work is complete and we get a final asbuilt showing everything. If the house is sold, the the new owner would have to the new owners and they would have to take care of that similar to what we had on sure because if we issue a certificate of
compliance now we're saying that what is on site as exists is complete and then there you wouldn't have any um one today. I'm not ready to say that patio whatever you want to call it. Not I'm sorry not the patio outside the house. The uh
so so one of the mechanisms that has been used I don't know if it's been used in dams but it's been used in other communities has been to issue an enforcement order. The terms of the enforcement order would require the installation of the shrubs the removal of the sport court and the installation
of the pollinator garden. And then do you want us to do that issue an enforcement? Well I'm offering it as a as a potential suggestion as a mechanism to get the work done. Then you've got actually an authorization to do this these work items and you essentially would this enforcement order sort of guarantee I
think performance and then when the enforcement order is completed then you could issue the complete certificate of compliance on the original order on the enforcement order. Do we have to find them in violation? I was going to I was going to say we have to find them in violation of something for enforcement. If we if we
issue if you want to issue an enforcement order then yes it would be finding them in violation of what's there I'm not sure we were trying to work out how friendly like well I'm thinking friendly enforcement order sorry just for a second hold on a sec Emily could you investigate that just
what the the the mechanism the method we have to send a notice of violation and then uh if what whose benefit does it work towards if anybody's or both of us nobody's Right. Um I just wanted to Oh, go ahead.
My gut feel is that the method that we're using right now is the way that we I would want to proceed. Okay. Yeah. And with an enforcement order, um they they didn't do what was required ahead of time before.
So is are they going to follow an enforcement order? And I don't know enough about that whether that's going to um you know be required before they sell the property. You know our goal objectively is to um clean the slate and
make sure the things that were done that um were done without our approval um is altered and mitigated enough so that um it balances back. I would think if we
were to make that an order of condition and then they didn't do it, that would be the time for an enforcement order, right? So, you know, part of what has is giving me a little bit of pause is we don't have um a valid order of conditions at
this point in time. So, we could do work under the enforcement order. We could do, you know, the installation of beds, the removal of those. we could do construction work essentially uh with that as the authorization um and that would avoid having to process a separate order of conditions
or a separate RDA uh to authorize that work. So that's that's one advantage in regards to is Mr. Dhy going to really do this work or not. We're here voluntarily. We're not you know we we've brought this to your attention. We've I think been an open book and we uh have
every expectation to uh cooperate with you completely and get the work done in a manner that you find satisfactory. Okay. But I think for now we're going to continue tonight. We're just I got to go back and do some talking and then uh right Emily can go back and see you know what the the rules are
around the enforcement order. Absolutely. And then you guys can decide which way you want to proceed. Okay. Uh yeah, you you know I think an enforcement order is typically our last resort. Okay. Because believe me I'm not trying to
make it difficult for you. I want to make it as easy as possible. I do want to thank you for the garden and the uh shrub area and it would be really wonderful if we could get rid of that big concrete slab. Okay, we'll try to do that.
Okay, so before we vote to continue, is there any public comments questions? None. Okay, so if someone can make a motion in in a twoe time frame so we haven't been back here again on the 25th. Yep. Okay, let's go with you, Bob.
So, we're on for the next meeting, which is when? September 25th. September what? 25th. 25th. Thank you. Okay. Yeah. Go ahead. You might want to make a motion. Yeah, I'll make a motion. I'll make a motion that uh I'm maxed out.
We continue the uh uh the 46 uh Riverside Street. 3530. Oh, I'm sorry. I'm on the wrong page. I make a motion that we continue uh 35 DOD a D file number 14-0883
uh to our next hearing which is September 20th. Correct. September 25th. I second the motion. All in favor? I I Okay. So, we'll see you again in two weeks. Great. Thank you. Thanks, Bob.
Thank you. I'm here for the next You're representing on the next as well, right? All right. So, just Well, that's a different So, notice of intent for 46 Riverside Street, D file number 14-1440. The applicants are Adam Wood and
Genevieve Fente. I remember your faces, too. Um, and if Emily, if you could bring up the new plan, please. Oh, good. Um, so at our uh last time we worked
together, there was we asked for some additional time because we were considering some design changes to the pier and um there was some uh uh new information that came in during that process. We were provided a copy of the 2025
uh dredge report on the river which was prepared by FA infrastructure earlier this year and that sort of gave us some additional information that as of as uh we've incorporated into the design plans as well. So um one of the uh comments that had come up
was a concern about the number of piles and the pile spacing. Um, and uh, it we'll see it a little bit better on the next sheet, but what I want to point out is, so we've got a pair of piles here, another pair of piles, another pair of piles, another pair of piles. So they're
about 45 ft apart. With the original design, they were about 20 ft apart. And the only way you get you can make 40 foot pile spacing work is if the span from, you know, pair of piles to pair of piles is a truss. Essentially like
almost like you'd see on a on a bridge. uh and that truss ends up having enough bending resistance so that you can safely you know walk across this and carry loads across that distance and it won't sag and uh break or anything like that. So uh the truss systems are
significantly more expensive than the wooden systems. Uh so while we cut down the number of piles and approximately in one half with this approach the uh costs of the truss the aluminum truss systems are significantly more expensive. So there is a definitely a cost increase as a result of doing this, but we felt it
was important to address the comments about the number of piles and uh hopefully it ends up with a with I think a better project. Um we still have a 40 foot wide gang way extending from the pier down to the floats and we have two float sections that add up to 200 square
ft. The typical 6 by13 and 6x20. So those conform to the uh the Danver standards. Uh you can also see on this plan that we've added uh some mapping of the channel and so the blue lines here are the existing channel 100 ft wide. Uh
and this is down at elevation I think 13 or 14. So this um doesn't need to be dredged today. Um the dredging report that came out suggested that there would there was some consideration of a future dredging project that would widen this channel from 100 ft wide to 50 to 150 ft
wide with all of the widening occurring on the west side of this of the channel at least in this area. So that would uh bring us 50 ft closer to the proposed pier gang way and float here. But we we looked at the elevations of the the bottom and for the side slopes and it
turns out that um none of these piles would be in the way of that future dredging project. So the you can see the floats are about 10 to 11 ft clear of the expanded channel. Uh so that really leaves room to park a boat there. Uh but also the depth of the uh side slopes
would not interfere with any of these piles that are here. So there's really no need to worry about relocation of piles in order to accommodate a future dredging project. Nevertheless, the um the applicants have said previously that they would if necessary move their float
and I think you could just put it on the side of the pier or something like this. You could slide it further away from the channel if necessary to accommodate a future dredging project. So, for some reason, you know, the the town came in with a 60 foot or a 70 foot wide dredging project that would impact the the layout, that in fact, um they're
promising that they would, you know, they love the river. They want the river to work and so they will cooperate with that type of an effort in the future if necessary. Um I do want to go to the next page if we can for just a moment, please. Um so, here you can see how the number
of piles supporting the pier has been reduced. These again are about 45 ft spacing in between peers. I've got two I've got a pair of uh piles at the end to provide better lateral resistance so that if this thing was ever whacked by, you know, ice in the winter or a float
came loose in a storm and and whacked some of these peers, you at least have some better lateral resistance than you than if you didn't have that pair at the end. Uh so that's the purpose of that. We still have some diagonals coming down from the piles to the aluminum truss sections. Again, that also provides
lateral resistance. Um, so it it's, you know, pretty much the same size as was originally filed, but I think it's a better materials and better uh uh design. We've got 7 ft clear at the shoreline, so we've got more than enough to satisfy the chapter 91 requirements.
They require 5 ft of clearance uh on the uh along the shoreline and we've got very wide distances in between the pile so it can easily accommodate um any you know paddle boarders or kayakers or the the small watercraft as they want to if
they want to be outside the channel. Uh and lastly, I think, you know, keeping the float in the position that we've indicated there, uh helps protect against, you know, bottom scour either from prop dredging or think, you know, boats landing on the mud. Uh it becomes
a safer uh pier, I think, for the use by the family. Um we don't have uh to worry about getting stuck and not being able to get back to your pier during a a low tide. So by providing a full title cycle access to the water body really becomes
a safer and I think a better uh pier. So uh with that I'd be happy to address any questions. Uh okay Bob um what is the length? It's 180 ft uh of fixed pier. So from
here to there's 180. We have a 40ft gang way and those uh floats that I mentioned 6x13 and 6x20. So that is what 253 feet I think less than that. So 180 plus 40 would be 220 another 20 here 240 and
this is probably you probably lose 5t here or maybe more. So about 230 I'd say 33 ft of floats 230 from beginning to end roughly. So what is it? I would say 230 ft roughly from beginning to end.
Okay. And that's off of that little peninsula that you want to improve as well. Right. I what I'm driving that's correct. We have a we have a we have a seaw wall improvement uh at the shoreline. Right. Yeah. What I'm what I'm driving at we've permitted another pier next door to you
pier and floats. I don't want this project to go out into the water farther than that one. So I think at the first because the I'm sorry Bob because of the harbor master's comments or just Yeah. when she was afraid of uh private property owners
encroaching on the public waterway. Uh so I know we've permitted one pier and float system down there next door and I I really do not want to go out beyond that. So I mean I asked Emily to uh to kind of get us a drawing today but
she couldn't make it work. So but uh I have a drawing and and I think we gave it I do and we gave it to you at the first meeting is my understanding. I wasn't at the first meeting. I was on vacation. But uh this was the figure that shows
here's 40 Riverside and here's 46. Where's 48? See 48 is not on. And what are you trying to point out? That you're no longer Well, yeah. This is this is comparable. We're not. Yeah, but 40 comments from the Hava master.
I'm sorry. you've read the comments from and the and he reiterated those comments yesterday. Yeah. I mean, he clearly has a concern about the number of peers on the river. Um and I think that the the everybody's trying to reach so-called permanent water, right?
Uh there's no right to that. Your your clients don't have an absolute right to that. I'm not sure I would agree with that. I think we all have the right to access the water. I think the chapter 91 regulations uh restrict or basically permit access to the water body and he actually encourages people to access the
water body. So I think that's where the that's where the the access to the water is regulated. I don't agree. I say Bob so on this this picture give me an estimate if you could please of where 408.
So 40 I don't I don't I'm not I don't have the information on number 48. I have the Yeah, I have numbers here. They're saying 194, 34, and 20. So that's 244. We're 232. So that's No, but you're much more than that because you're adding this.
Again, I really don't But my point is, Bob, I do not want to I'm not going to approve something that goes beyond what we've already approved for these guys. So I don't have that information and I guess I'm happy to get it address.
One sec. Two 248. This is where 48 Riverside is. I don't have that. I can pull that up. Do you want me to pull up the 48 Riverside plan? Would that help? Trying to figure this out. I think from the numbers you gave me today, Emily.
Okay. I added that up to be 244. And these and this proposal is for 253 plus the length of that. This is the 48 Riverside Street. Their final approved plan that's up there. Yeah. On the other side. This is this is the one right next to
us. Rosenbergs, right? This This is This isn't the comparable one. Okay. Do you want me to pull up um I also have 40 Riverside. Do you want me to pull up that one? Okay. Okay. All right. 40 is That's the one I was showing you.
40 goes This is 40 Riverside that we did not permit that. Yep. 40 Riverside. We we we gave them and they said they were going to go back with their original 91 chapter 91 license. 40 Riverside
that Daryl Parker. No, Daryl isn't 40. Daryl is uh 42, I believe. That's That's 40. It's in the chapter 91 process now. And when did we permit that? 40 40 Riverside was permitted in 2024.
And then Daryl at 42, he was permitted in 2018 to rebuild in kind with his existing chapter 91. How do we what? Well, then I stand corrected because I'm I'm surprised that we allowed something to go that far.
Yeah. Can I ask a question? No. Yes. Go ahead. Yeah. Hi. So you said you're aware of the uh harbor master's original comments and then his comments from yesterday where he whereby he reiterated uh that he was urging that the applicant
uh consider uh making improvements to their original pier. Now what how long is that pier? Okay. So, that pier is here and it doesn't provide full title uh access.
Yeah. But that's what we're getting, right? When you say full title access, you mean you can get in the boat anytime. You want to get out to permanent water all the time. That's correct. Yeah. But I don't think that serves the purpose of
the waterway for the public. Well, and what if everybody does that, right? There's Well, and that's why you still have a a very wide channel and we don't have these things encroaching in the channel in the first place. I think that the issue to me is chapter 91 regulates access to the waterways,
right? And I think that's, you know, what we're here for tonight is for the Wetlands Protection Act and I think we meet all of the criteria in the wetlands protection act to get an order of conditions issued. Now the harbor master has said that he expects to write comments to D saying that I don't know
there's too many peers in Danvers or we don't like the length of the peers in Danvers and he has every right to make those comments but I I think in my experience I think D is going to permit it because I think they encourage safe access to the waterway but it's like you're almost saying no you have to what you're really saying is
you have to improve this because everybody has a right to permanent water and it meets the regulations right if it doesn't meet the regul ations. I think we'd have an issue there, but this does. Yeah. Just identify yourself and your address,
please. Jenna Wood, 46 Riverside Street. Um, I live there with my husband, Adam, and we had been in talks with Georgia for a long, long time. Um, when we started this project and when we first started
the project, first and foremost, we knew that um, we were trying to be really thoughtful about conservation and we were told that having the dock closer and in the mud flats wasn't safe for the environment. So, we decided to go with
the deep water. And then we knew that Rachel and Rich next door had also applied for the deep water. Um, and then the reason that we moved the location really was kind of me initially because
where it is now, I when we bought the house, I was like a super big freak about safety and potentially having a family in the future and not partitioning the property and having an appropriate fence line. So, I wanted the dock as far farthest away from, you
know, my child playing that it could possibly be. So, we thought that putting it on the seaw wall, we could have a fence and then Oh, God. You're full of Oh, I'm sorry. If you're online, please mute yourself. Said that. Sorry about that.
Um, that was rude and I'm not. It's truthful. I'm a very honest person. Um, so and so having that fence line across and then having another area before we get to our dock and then another gate before our
dock was really important to me. And you can even I can have my mom come in and attest to this because she is also a big safety freak as well. And our neighbor actually did his entire project um up the street with his fence and his seaw wall because he has a little toddler as
well. Um, so that that that was really the main priority for us was the safety and that's kind of how we shifted it from where it is to the to the um outside of the seaw wall. And then we just figured that we would go out so we would be respecting the conservation
land and that's kind of how we landed. And then when we got the five-page letter um that our neighbors hadn't received in 2024 about um all of these concerns that the harbor master had, we
were completely taken aback. So, you know, and we did have a nice zoom call and um try to have those conversations internally about what we could do better. And we didn't think that we should have to acquies if we're making
such a big investment. um for a variety of different reasons and um you know this is this is where we're at and we do we there's no bylaw. We're following all the appropriate rules and regulations of the river and we respect the harbor
master and everyone's opinions. Um but we also have the right to improve our property and um do what we think is right. we didn't, you know, buy in the river to, you know, we wanted to improve it and I grew up right on the other side
of the river. So, um, that's kind of where I'm at. I don't know if my husband wants to say anything or but thank you. Good. Well said. I am just hesitant to to keep approving these these long peers.
Not in favor. I think we have to remember we have to stay within the guidelines, but I also I don't know if um you guys what guidelines, Mary. So the guidelines that he had talked about what they're allowed to do and what they're not like
we have our guidelines that we follow as well and what we allow and not to allow but at some point there's there they do have the right to do certain things and we can't guidelines for how long well there are guidelines and and what
for example chapter 91 says that you you know can only permit a pier and gang way and float to the extent necessary to provide safe access to the water body and that's what this does. Um and you know and if you don't think you have the right to to address the length of the
pier and your regulations then chapter 91 does and we obviously have to go through that chapter 91 process. We have to go through the core of engineers process. You know this is one step in several permits that are necessary to build this project. How do you define safe access to the waterway? So safe access means you know these
these things aren't resting on the mud for example. So essentially you're saying everybody can have a pier out to permanent water as long as it doesn't interfere significantly with other people's use of the river. And that's I think what that's what that's what the hom
right and but but let's also take you know take a look at the river here. We have wide openings underneath the pier. So we're not impeding lateral movement up and down the river by the pier construction. We have a very wide channel uh beyond the pier. So there's plenty of room for boat traffic there as
well. So we really aren't significantly constraining uh use of the water body with this design. A question of course. Did you read the um comments from the uh division of marine fisheries that was I have. Yes. Yep.
Then have have you talked to anybody about that or Well, I think that part of the process that you did here did you take those into consideration with what your plan is? Right. So, and this is why, you know, we have our float stops to prevent the
float from bottoming out. This is why we have, you know, good separation. This is why we have the, you know, we're not blocking any salt marsh. I mean, we're we're doing everything by the small dock and pure guidance manual. So, I think we're, you know, So, what things are you going to do for that match with that?
I'm sorry. What are the things that you're going to do that match with their recommendations? I I I guess I I I don't remember the recommendation list, but why don't you There was um fuel spills from construction equipment.
So, they wanted um like on-site adequate containment for that, right? So, the so the dredging or not the the pile driving contractor has that type of equipment on his barges and his boats. So, that's how that is satisfied.
And then um the barge restricted any activities two hours before and after high tide, right? And then the impacts from the sound and turbidity from piling, excuse me,
typ typically the pile installer is using what they call the slow start method for driving the piles so that they're not, you know, just creating unnecessary disturbance. That's part of the plan, right? And and frankly, all of these permit conditions get passed down to the installation contractor. So, they're part of the
contract between the applicant and the contractor. Yep. I just want to double check that that's the case. Yeah. It's nothing against anybody or anything bad. Um, and then the storage of the construction equipment materials would be located on the upland side.
And then the floats would be at least 30 in above the substrate over the mapped shellfish habitat. Mhm. Right. And the entire river is shellfish habitat. So at least it's mapped as shellfish habitat. And that's why we have the uh the legs on the float and things like
that. Y thank you. And frankly, you know, I do want to point out as well that we did, you know, make the extra effort. We tried to have a uh a design review earlier this spring with the harbor master. And in fact, we did make some adjustments to the design
prior to finalizing the plans and and filing them with you. So, we've we've probably had three rounds with the harbor master regarding this uh project. How far out is the minimum to go to get to permanent water? So, this is where we're at. I mean, this
is this minus 7 contour is where you need to be at and that's where we're touching it. It's no longer than necessary to get the permanent water. Exactly. I'm not in favor. Well, if you want I mean, if you want to have a 12-hour
uh float, then you you bring it in. But uh it's safer to have it at the minus 7 contour. It has less disturbance to the river bottom. Uh and safer in what regard? So when these uh
floats are uh half on mud and half floating, they become unstable. You know, they don't necessarily you put your foot down and it doesn't necessarily react with the way you think it would. So it's a little more difficult uh and treacherous on those floats when they're partially floating. Uh so that's my point there. Uh it's
also more dangerous because if you're out uh on the water and you're trying to get back to beat the tide, you know, you might not make it and then all of a sudden you find yourself mured uh on a mudflat somewhere or trying to, you know, get to where you want to be. So that's so it's definitely a more dangerous condition by not having access
through the full title cycle. And what's the how do I ask this question? The alternative is putting a boat on a moing to bring the boat where? On a moing. Moing it instead of docking it,
I suppose. Yeah. So, that's an alternative to be considered. I mean, most people probably don't want that. Well, again, you know, you've got to transfer all of your goods from, you know, the shoreline to your to your dory out to the boat. Then you transfer them
again. If you've got small kids that you're transferring, it's it adds a whole complication and level of risk to that operation. It's definitely not as user friendly, not as safe. Peter Clement might disagree with that.
Um, well, something for you to decide here, Bob. I don't think you're going to have the votes to get this approved tonight. Yeah, sure. Uh but we do not have a full board here going in two weeks time.
We're going to have a new member plus Lorraine will be back. So that's a consideration. We would continue if you want. Well, you know, we're not trying to, you know, force this down anybody's throat. We obviously want to achieve. Oh, yeah. And Jennawood, 46 Riverside
Street. I just want to point out too is that not just our neighbor at 40 Riverside, but another neighbor around the way also has a deep water dock. And I just find it What was the address in there? The second one. I don't know.
Yeah, 55 me. Um, so I find it I understand that maybe there's a change coming and perhaps that's not wanted, but it's not fair to permit a dock last
year and then we come here a year later thinking that it's going to be fine. and speaking with numerous town staff and the harbor masters known about this since May and then in July we get a letter that's like five pages long and we're like what's going on here it's a
little bit it's favoritism and it's a little bit discriminatory based on one one opinion of the harbor master and while it's very like we respect it and we want to like be a good neighbor to everyone it just wasn't we just asked that we're afforded the same opportunities as other people are
getting and we made a large investment in the in this property. And that's all I have to say. I would point out that we've tried to accommodate design changes wherever possible to um to address your comments. Uh and I do I still think that the the
project as designed meets all of the performance standards of the Wetland Protection Act. I think if we ended up going to, you know, for a superseding order at the end of the day, we would get it. Um, but you know, I realize that that's, you know, a process we would not rather not go through, I'm sure it's a process you would rather not go through. You know, we'd rather try to figure out
a way to to make this successful. And to that end, if you think that uh we should wait a couple of weeks and come back and and meet with you again, we're happy to do that. I think we should continue. And so both sides, I was asking if he was agree to think about what else you might do to convince us besides
But I I think there's um there's two other there's two other people. There's two other people. Oh, sorry. What is it? She can't talk. Um, there's two other people that aren't here. Just in quick reminder on that. Um, a
new member that we were going to have is no longer able to join. So, it's just one person who's not able to be here tonight. Okay. So, there's one other person. So, that just wanted to make that clear. All right. Thank you. There's somebody here in the public to somebody. Go ahead. Was there something you wanted to say?
No, I said there's somebody here that wants Actually, we have someone in the audience who would like So, go ahead. I thought I heard someone make that off hand. Really? That person is no longer We'll ask for public comment. Yeah, that person is no longer um
online. Chris Farrell Riverside. Chris Farrell, Riverside. I thought I'd only be standing up here once tonight, but I'm here again. So, I understand this is kind of a, you know, a charged topic and I I understand, you know, our neighborhood is very unique
neighborhood. There's a lot of older houses and there's a lot of new families coming into these houses and they're they're inheriting things that were done before them, right? You know, myself included. And I was able to make an improvement for the betterment of the property, of the family, and of, you
know, of the wetlands. And I appreciate that. And I think that, you know, we've we've kind of seen I don't want to say a change in the tides because it's too kitschy, but I think, you know, as families come in and they want to move to this area and they want to be on the water, understandably so. And, you know, they they pay a premium to be on the
water. And I think, you know, having access to the water is, you know, it's it's a right. I don't like to throw away, you know, everyone's rights. Everybody has a right. But, you know, you live on the water so you can access the water. Um, I'm an avid boater
myself. I don't have a boat on my property, but you know, in in Gloucester, I do. And, you know, when I go on the boat with my son or, you know, my nephews, rushing back to catch the tide as far as whether to go deep water or not, rushing back to catch the tide
elevates everybody's sense of urgency and it does become a very dangerous situation, right? So, you're going a little bit faster than you're supposed to. you're making a little bit bigger wake than you should, which obviously impacts the shoreline and other boats and other people's properties. So, you can get back to your property because you're just dreading, all right, where
am I going to moore? Am I going to moore out in this this deep water area? Am I going to be able to find a spot over in, you know, the Denver Port Yach Club, etc. You're motoring back. You're not thinking clearly, and that's when boating accidents happen. So, just an aside to speak on that point. Um, I
understand, you know, Jenna's Jenna's point as far as keeping clear line of sight from the rear of their house, looking straight down to see the dock, um, to know if, you know, a child is going to be try to breach the gate cuz they have little fiddly fingers and they like to get into things that they shouldn't. Um, but on the other hand, I
I understand that, you know, it's an uncomfortable standpoint, you know, for the commission to see, you know, the growth of these peers and, you know, it seems like who's going to build the tal the tallest skyscraper. But to that point, I would, you know, I'm sorry, your sir, your name is against Bob. Um
to Bob's point I would also say all right well then we we look back and we follow what's allowed what are the rules what are the regulations and as far if everything is you know checked and ordered in the way that it should be then it's the way it should be and I'm not here to to push anybody's you know
opinion on one way this or the other just kind of to mediate on the on the middle of the idol. I understand, you know, it's difficult to see peers kind of growing into the into the water, but people want to they want to access the water. They want to keep their family safe. They want to protect the wetlands. And I can only speak I don't know what
their project is costing or going to cost. I know what mine was and it's We'll leave it there. It's expensive. It wasn't cheap. um you know, but for doing the the the extra wide pilings with increased distance of of 40 ft in between the pilings, you know, that's
that's stinks to have to do, but if you're doing that, you want to make it work. You want to make it work, you know, so you can have your project approved so you can enjoy the water and and not be a nuisance to, you know, to your neighbors. So, um I'm not sure what my main point was, but I think those are all valid points, and I just wanted them
to share them with the commission and with the attending town members. So, thank you. Great. Thanks. Appreciate it. Um, Adam Wood, 46 Riverside, um, Jenna's husband. So, um I I just want to speak
to kind of our our intent when we we embarked this and and you know um you know I really believe in doing the right thing, doing right by the river, doing right by the harbor master, doing right by conservation and that was our intent. You know, we we had an existing chapter
91. The existing floats that are located here, these are 20 foot by 6 ft floats. There's three of them. That's about 500 square feet of float that sits in the mud. We didn't we we as soon as we moved in, we took those out. We knew it was
impacting the wetlands. We knew it was impacting the river. We we've been sitting with the pier. We we haven't utilized it. And we want to we want to, you know, invest our money in in the right spot and put it into a, you know,
a plan that is better for the river. And I think that that is what we're trying to do here. like we're not trying to, you know, do anything out of the ordinary. We're we're taking the regulations that conservation has put forth. There's no there's no floats in
the mud. We've we've we've focused on that in our design. We've spent tens of thousands of dollars in design fees to get it there. And, you know, we're just trying to do the right thing. And it's just it's very discerning to see
comments that aren't, you know, really resembling around that that effort, you know, and I think there's a lot of contradictory statements being made of the navigational channel about the floats, you know, sitting in the mud.
And it's just very unfortunate that we're stuck in the middle of all of that. And we're just trying to do the right thing. We're trying to put the peers out in the water so they don't get impacted by the mud flats. We've respected the hopper master's comments
with the navigational channel. We've respected the future expansion of the river with the 50-foot expansion. We're taking everything into account. We're being respectful of everyone's opinions. We want to do right and we're not trying to do anything out of the ordinary. we're trying to push this in anyone's,
you know, we're just trying to do the right thing. So, to to see disgruntled members of of the board and to see, you know, the reactions tonight, it just it's very upsetting. It really is. It it
you know, we we're investing our money to do the right thing for the river and it's just it it's it's very upsetting. Thank you. We have someone in the back. Go ahead. Go.
Let speak for us. Oh, go ahead. Uh, Bill Brad Street town meeting member precinct one. I sit here and listen and I watch. I'm not sitting on the board. I don't know what you folks know. Just so
you're clear. I'm just an observer. In some of the explanations I've heard tonight, there's there's a bit of ambiguity. Ambiguity. Not this is white and this is black. This is the area that you have to deal with in
the middle. I'm concerned that if you have to set the restrictions yourself or you have to abide by the restrictions that the state has set. If it's yes or it's no, it's not maybe
or possibly. That's the to me that's the ambiguity. I think it's unfortunate that a harbor master isn't here to explain to you other than a letter that that says something. The one I said wasn't the harbor master.
I'm just in general. I'm not speaking about that one. I'm saying in general it's too bad the harbor master if he's involved in the decisions that you make can't be here to not defend but explain
why he said what he said. I'm just I'm just disturbed or disappointed. Uh as far as buy a piece of property on the water, there's two ways to look at it.
Not necessarily having a boat, but some people might just want to enjoy the view of the water. Uh the board you set your limits I think on the you were saying on the other peers
that were set in there. If you set a limit and then the next person comes in and wants another limit. It's like when you open a door and you let someone get their foot
in. That's it. Once you set a standard, hold to it. Don't make those kind of exceptions. But that's what you're here for is to make some exceptions. I'm disappointed. Uh I don't have a lot of money, but I think uh the fact that uh
some of these projects these folks are doing and others, I think that's the last thing that should be something that you should be deciding on. If someone wants something and they're willing to spend or have the money to spend a million dollar, they
spend a million dollars. If they only have $20,000, that's their choice to ask you what they want for the $20,000. But for you to say, "Well, you can only afford $20,000, we'll let you go. You can afford a million dollars? Well, we'll let you go.
There's limits." Now, I'm just sitting here listening, making the observations whether they pertain to what went on this tonight. It's just observations I make and that's why I'm up here just trying to
Thanks for sharing those with us. I'm concerned. Thank you. All right. Um, just I just got two cents to add is just my dilemma is you whenever I see one of these peer projects, I just I just get up tight. Um,
my question is, I mean, someone buys property on the waterfronts to enjoy the water, per se, but how far out into that water do they own? Well, and to some extent, and there's a further question. People
claim that they own the property out there. Is the town taxing? Yeah, I didn't think of that. Yeah, I mean that's that's not that goes against my par last paragraph here, but if it's property that someone has rights to, they should be paying taxes on. But is that part of what we're doing
tonight? No, that's not that's more a water ride. That's that that's an aside, but that's just I'm just sharing my struggles with there are some disputes in the law over, you know, how how long how far into uh into the waterways these properties go.
Some people have deeds that describe ownership down to mean low water. For practical purposes, chapter 91 takes jurisdiction to the mean high water line. And so at this point, you know, they're they're taking mean basically from the seaw wall out is in chapter 91 jurisdiction.
So So that's up to them to decide if that pier is well without without a chapter 91 license, this doesn't get built. because I know there was one on Shivalia A and I'm not sure if Emily remembers this or not, might have been during George's
time, but we gave them the permit, but we just said good luck with chapter 91 and I know they haven't built anything. So, you know, and I but I at the same time I have experience permitting peers along the river, Beverly, Danvers, and uh you
know, these things get approved by chapter 91 at this elevation in similar situations. And so I I I believe it's permittable from a chapter 91 point of view. Okay. And that 40 Riverside. Yep. Right. We approved that last year because I have no recollection of that.
Yes. Yep. 2024. I can try to find the exact date. And is it been built? No, not yet. I I think they're in the chapter 91 process. I think they're at the perhaps at the end of it and they might Is that on your picture? Uh yes, it is. That's That's
Can we see that again, please? Yeah. I think they're an important process as well at this point in time, but that's that's them right there. So, that's just a simulation, right? That's that's the that's the design that you approved. And this is the one we're talking about
tonight. And even still, that still seems to me like it's going out faster. Well, you can see, you know, this is very shallow water. There's the this, you know, the bottom with, you know, debris on it. And then we move out here. You enter the deep pit. Where's the existing on here? Right there. Yeah.
Yeah. And then I asked this question to you before approval. Whereabouts would that go to? So it looked from the graphic you showed it looked like it was comparable to the length of this thing. So oops about here. Yeah. Okay. Thanks. Um,
my gut feel is I want to have at least one more member here to because I I'm not sure that I'm I'm I'm on the fence and I'm hearing Mike is saying no, he's not support of it. And Mary, what do you
um I'm not in line with Mike. I think I don't know the guidelines like well that's the point I mean maybe staff has to look at there's no there's no law that says we have to permit to meet to
permanent water. I mean from this to um Bob and the applicant's point from the wetlands protection act side and from the performance standard side the the performance standards are being met um for this project. If you do want to continue it, I can see if the harbor
master can attend the next meeting. Um, that might be help if that might help. Um, but from the from the performance standard side. Um, but I share his concerns right his present concerns and his concerns for the future of this river and for uses
not just for guys that can afford $100,000 or whatever, but for people for other people that want to enjoy the river. Yeah. And that's what I'm saying. if like at the next meeting if we do want to continue I can see if he can attend on the 25th and then we can have that full discussion with um you guys if
you're willing to and Bob and I think it's important for us to remember that um by saying this now they're feeling targeted and they're trying to do what's right and they're following the guidelines. Um, so
from where I stand, you can't have all these people do something and then when somebody else says, you know, we have a new home, we have this beautiful place, we want to do the same thing, we're going to do it the right way, we're going to take care of everything. Um,
it's for me, you have to be able to see the bigger picture. Like, yes, it's horrible there. You know, there's all these things going out and there's more. There's already one there, right? you're just making it better. So, and the guidelines that were here, they're
following those. They're taking care of the um the shellfish habitat and the fish passage and migration areas, you know. So, for me, but they can do that without going out to permanent water. They can do everything you said without going out to
permanent water. You understand, right? But the the guidelines for whether they can and can't go out to permanent water, is that within our guidelines? Well, that's exist. We want the hoba master to have staff.
So is he like what is the when do you say they can't go out to a certain point? It for me it's an environmental perspective. So from an environmental law from the guidelines we have here from what was he saying about chapter 21 or 91 like they there's guidelines they
have to follow that we have to follow you know and from what I can see they're following the guidelines so you know maybe finding out more information about that you know
it's no I'm about how far out they go not about of course we want him to do anything anything that's done here has to be done right and uh but I'm more about the concerns that the harbor master has
I'm sorry please just go to the microphone whenever you're talking so does he want to continue I didn't think I'd be here this long you guys are killing me I'm just surprised you stayed well now I don't have to put my son down cuz my wife's doing it so I actually really enjoy being here wait is this being recorded oh jeez
I knew it was kids Um, so I I again just a just an observer on this one. I know it seems a little bit close to home cuz it is. Um, but you know there's there's rules and there's regulations and there's how we feel about rules and regulations. Like I I I'm playing both sides of the aisle like I I understand
you know you know Michael what you're saying we then also Mary you know your points are valid. You know everybody everybody has good good points right but at the end of the day it's like all right what's you know right and wrong what are the rules? were the regulations. If somebody's playing by the rules and the regulations, then
that's what they have to play to. And, you know, I hear some comments about, you know, there there are no existing rules or regulations for, you know, the commission to kind of or the town of Danvers to kind of meet chapter 91. Like, what's permittable? What's too
far? And where does it stop on behalf of of the town, right? And maybe that's something that should be explored in the future. But as as it stands today with this project, you know, from what I hear and observe, they, you know, they have
the chapter 91 where they're abiding by the chapter 91. They're following all the rules and the regulations. So, I mean, we can all feel how we feel about it, right? Everyone's entitled to that. Like, I hate it. I I love it. Whatever it is. Um, but if it's it's allowed to be it, it
should be is my opinion. But I'm not a professional. I'm not Bob. So that I just wanted to share that that point that, you know, everybody can feel their way about certain topics. And that's valid. Your feelings are valid 100%. But
is it is it against the rules? Is it within the the fine, you know, the confines? Does it hurt the shellfish? Does it hurt the, you know, the the mud flats? Who's impacted? You know, I 100 100% agree. Kind of, you know, can be perceived as like, oh, well, you can live on the water, so you know, but
everybody should enjoy it. 100% agree. There's two public accesses, one on um, you know, Riverside, one on baits. So, everybody can enjoy the water and everyone does enjoy the water with their kayaks and with their paddle boards. um you know Allan at the end of the street he paddle boards and he doesn't have you
know any issue navigating around whether it's the marina to the right or people's docks to the left. So just somebody who's observed it in real time and and you know lives there. I just wanted to share that with you. So hopefully I'm not blabbering too much but if you have any questions for me thanks. Um
happy to answer Emily. Yes, there was a year or so ago there was an issue with a another vote and there were only three members present and uh because of there only being three members present there was something about the validity of that vote that
that came up. Um yes, someone had missed too many meetings to be eligible to vote on that event and we didn't have the Mullen form signed. So they were not actually an eligible voter and does that apply here with us only having three members here tonight? Um, no, because you guys have been at
all the meetings and if I think Mike, you had to sign one Mullen form for this and you did that a ways back. Um, so if for the next meeting, if Lorraine is here, we would send her the recording of this to watch it, sign that form, and then she will be an eligible voter on this.
Okay. So, a decision for you. Do you want to wait till there's another board member? I know we we would request a continuence. We appreciate your consideration for that. Okay. So everyone's agreeable with that. Why don't we just kick the can down the road and make a motion to continue?
Make a motion. Make sure we have Lraine here in seeing all of this. Yes. And would you like the harbor master here too? I can that would be help Mr. Samborn. Okay. Yeah. Okay. I make a motion to continue uh the notice of intent for 46 Riverside Street D
file number 14-1449 to our next scheduled hearing of September 25th. I second the motion. It was 1440. And motion's been made and seconded. All in favor? I. All right. Well, thank you all very
much. We'll see you in a couple weeks. See you. See you folks. Thank you. Uh, okay. Next up is a notice of intent for 36 Sherwood AB D file number 14-1443. Uh the applicants are Daniel and Hillary
Gordon and the applicants have requested that we continue the hearing until our October 9th meeting. So they're skipping. Wow. Yeah. They're coming before ZBA as well and so they're finalizing their ZBA plans. Okay. So So to the 9th. Yeah. October 9th. Okay. I make a motion to continue the hearing
for 36 Sherwood Avenue D number 14-1443 to October 9th, 2025. I second. All in favor? I I I'm used to saying the chair saying, "Do we have a second?" Oh.
Uh, okay. So, for old and new business, uh, the only thing item on here is minutes from our August 28th uh, meeting, which was short and sweet, so it wasn't long reading. So, no. If someone can make a motion, we'll approve those. Uh, where is it?
On my list. We just we just need I'll make a motion we approve the minutes from August 28th, 2025. I second the motion. All in favor? I. Any other older new business, Emily?
Yes. I got an email from our potential new member late this afternoon. He's actually not able to join at this time. He's got too many other commitments. So, he's hoping he'll be back in touch in about a year. I know. I know. We were continue the search. So, we're going to continue the search. I thought we were pretty much ready to
roll. a corral dean. I know Josh might get mad if I steal it from planning on a board. I don't know if Josh appreciates that. Yeah. So, he's off and um he said he'll be back in touch probably in about a year. Um
so, we're right back at it getting word out. I spoke with Aaron this afternoon. I'm going to see Brian tomorrow morning and we're going to continue just doing as much outreach as we can. And if anyone's watching that's interested, all right, so please reach out to me. Even um I just had a thought um you know Endeott Park.
Yep. So that's such a place where people who love nature go maybe like posting something or if they have a website that you could post like do you know what I mean? Like we could do like a news flash on the family is very involved with the dog park and just Yeah.
Yeah. Actually, my uh wife, you know, Valerie, because she's on the garden club, is they're designing a calendar, which will should be ready by the end of the month with everybody sent in pictures. We need we wanted 144. I think we got 300.
So, crowd anybody? Let me know. I'll buy one. If we could buy if we could post some kind of sign down there. I'm not sure the legalities around that, but I'll find out though. Or even digital like digital. Yeah, we can definitely put something on the website. I can um I can get that going. No problem.
You know, um I'm only concerned uh whether we can still discuss about the the 46, but I'm I'm talking generally. I have a general concern of are our hands t being tied here because we permitted
one that length that we've now tied our hands. And I know I don't know what the guidelines are. Yeah. And that's I can pull some more information on that and get that's a valid argument, but I don't think we are. by precedent. Uh but I'm still amazed that we allow
you to look at that Emily. Absolutely. Yeah. Because I'm not even sure we can propose is quite another question. Can we propose a regulation uh in our in our bylaw that limits that?
Yep. Yep. That's something that I believe um works. Uh yeah, I've been speaking behind the scenes with Chris Abborn about that and with council, too. And how long would it take to implement something like that? Because once word gets out, you'll have to get a lot more applications. Yeah. Um and that's also what we're what
we're working out. Um it would be talking about that because it's been a concern for a while. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Chris and I have been talking about that concern every time there's an application. Yeah. So adding keep I mean we've succeeded in keeping getting the floats. Oh yeah. We've succeeded in getting the floats
off of the bottom. That's okay. That's good. I mean, I said that before, but I was struggling with that. How long is is the right length or how long is too long? Yeah. I mean, Chris every time he's contribut
master and he has concerns, right? Okay. So, try and get him here next time, please. Absolutely. Okay. Now, Mike, you ready to go? So, if you make the motion, I'll make a motion to adjurnn. I second. All in favor? I All right. Good job, guys. I'm not
saying to make them huge. I just