##VIDEO ID:m_um0LBk0bs## e e that clock's wrong we all set y okay good evening welcome to the Danver Conservation Commission meeting for January the 23rd 2025 we as a commission operate under the Massachusetts General Law chapter 131 section 40 of the wetlands Protection Law and chapter 26 of the town of danver's General BW the wetlands protection bylaw after each applicant presents his or her requests and the board has had time to ask questions and discuss the project will'll accept questions from the audience because this is a public meeting it is required by law that you give your name and your address before you speak although we may disagree on the issues raised all persons present during this meeting are expected to be civil to all of the meeting attendees this includes members of the commission staff abutters concerned citizens property owners and project applicants we also request that you confine your questions to the project and only as it pertains to the wetlands act we cannot handle nor do we have jurisdiction over matters such as noise or traffic all problems not related to the wetlands protection act in the town of tamri wetlands protection bylaw must be taken up with other appropriate boards our first order of business would be the roll call Peter Wilson is present line drapek present Mary hate present and Michael Spain yeah uh first item on our agenda is a request for a certificate of compliance for 24-42 Cherry Hill Drive D number 14138 n and I see here that the applicant is requested to continue until February 23rd 2025 yes yep um is that in regards to the snow yes they're still dealing with some snow storage so it's not not not quite ready to close out yet okay um iess this isn't a public hearing so we're not voting uh just a quick observation I rode by there yesterday the day before after we spoke and I did see the snow right underneath the sign it says no snow no snow storage um but I also noticed on the other side of the wetlands there was all kinds of snow piled there but there were no signs okay so I'm not sure in I think that was a previous order of conditions for the first Bridge okay so we probably should try and get on the same page with that absolutely U okay um okay so moving on notice number two is a notice of intent for 13 South Liberty Street D file number 14143 the applicant is Pat O'Brien and right good evening every body my name is Justine Fox and I'm a wetland scientist with Williams and sparagis LLC located at 189 North Main Street in Middleton and I'm here representing our client tonight Pat O'Brien that is the property owner of 13 South Liberty Street and runs O'Brien's Garden Center out of there as well so a little bit of background about the property um the house there was built in the late 1700s is when it was first built and it is in need of some Renovations which is why we're in front of you today um the property borders on the waters river which is a perennial tidal River and the salt marsh on the property was delineated by my cooworker Thorson acly and you can see depicted by the green line shown on the plan excuse me one second yeah could we zoom in on that could you repeat what you just said as well yeah so the Wetland resource areas on this property are associated with the waterers river which is a brackish tidal River um can you point that out yeah upper right so the mean annual high water line is shown at elevation 4.1 which we're calling um where the river starts and then this green line is the edge of the salt delineated by my coworker Thorson acly the red line depicts the 35t no disturbance coming off of that Wetland line the orange line is the 50ft no build Zone the yellow line is the 100er zone and that's the 200 y 200 so most of the houses within 100 ft of the wetlands and most of the property is within 200 ft of the river um so as far as what we are proposing as what you see in pink is a proposed addition on the house so it's going to wrap around the existing dwelling right here and come a little bit closer to the river back here and a deck is also proposed off the rear the driveway is proposed to be paved and slightly expanded and let me get back in front of the mic so oh great okay thanks so since this property is within the 200t riverfront area there are mitigation requirements under state law um 17 3 ft of the addition is proposed closer to the Wetland than existing conditions so that would entail this part of the addition coming closer towards the river um as well as the 56 Square ft of the deck that is proposed within the 50ft no build Zone which is not exempt from the Wetland law and so we are proposing a mitigation area at a two 2 to1 ratio to that square footage for the 50 6 squ ft of the deck as well as the 173 ft of the addition that is coming closer so we're proposing a 520t restoration area depicted here on the plan there is some fill in that location right now as the property's been utilized for um I don't know how many years the green houses have been there but it's been a farm business for quite a long time and there is some fill and some farm equipment stored in that area and so we're proposing to scrape back the fill place it with clean LOM and install we're proposing five Northern Bayberry shrubs as well as four sweet pepper bush shrubs which we believe will do well in the brackish conditions as well as a New England native Coastal salt tolerance seed mix and the idea is that that area will be untouched and left to naturalize going forward um as well as we're planning to clean up that area a bit and remove some of the debris and trash that's been left there over the years and pull back some of the stockpiling and farm equipment that's kept in that area as well and just allow it to be more of a natural Riverfront area um when we first submitted this plan we had some comments from the zoning board as well as the engineering department so we continued from the last meeting to revise the plan to incorporate their comments we pulled the deck2 Ft away from the lot line to conform with zoning setbacks and the engineering department was looking for us to mitigate for the additional roof runoff that is going to come with the addition so the dark gray shaded area depicts the area of the roof that is going to have storm water run off come this way and go into an underground inertion pond so there will be no increase of storm water runoff towards the river um there is no D comments at this time we did have some butter comments that Pat and I have discussed and he has their phone number and is going to be completely in contact with them about a schedule for construction and we believe that the improvements will be beneficial for both properties in the end when everything's said and done could you just show us on that map where the ab Butter's property is yeah um so this is the property line right here the dark black line and this house right here isers that's its driveway I believe and what's the distance between the two yeah about between the existing each other yeah and um and in his letter he mentioned something about access through his driveway to get out to the back of the property is that does that sound familiar I don't necessarily need access to I only need access to his driveway for 2 days to put on the roof of the house which I'll free work out with them in advance give them 48 hours notice and let them know when we'll be doing it but the back half that property is fully accessed actually by the utility company roadway which is beyond where those green houses show there so it's behind the back side of the green houses not the back side I'm sorry could you please just go to the microphone just so that people at home can hear you too thank you yeah just let us identify yourself please uh it's Patrick O'Brien 15 South Liberty Street so the entrance to actual property into basically the back for where I guess this whole area is is over beyond the power company it's over down here could we just make it a little bigger what address did you say you were uh we're technically I believe it's 13 and 15 South Liberty Street is what my electric bill shows up as 13-5 or something exactly but the abutter was 11 yeah next I believe the neighbors 11 this the pictures did you see the pictures yeah of course so when I see the the the uh gate yep that's his driveway that's his key the left that's your house correct and like if you see a cinder block wall there that's roughly the width of what we own that's what so that's your side that's the 5T you're talking about correct yeah exactly like right roughly where the corner of his driveway is give or take where the property line is and it goes down to 41 where like the come in you need to pull in up to where the gate is yeah that's it and then your roofer will you have a roof for or Professional Roofers coming yeah they'll put uh staging up just so they can do the roofing so in the what's on the other side of your house there's no other there currently existing driveway there existing driveway is the dash lines right here prop Drive is the why does uh do you mind you no go ahead I'm trying to think of my own questions here yeah the the portion that um is in the no build why does it have to be there why can't the deck extend out the other direction there's a garage being built in the basement just for storage purposes yeah but where can you show me like right around here is where there'll be two garage doors so what back side there so there'll be a cars coming in now not necessarily cars it's really storage for flower pots and miscellaneous things to grow for uh this is actually existing like she mentioned that this was being extended but this is actually existing this portion here it's really just this 10t deck that'll be added on what level is the deck on the first level yeah the first level and the and I'll ask I'll ask you the um mitigation area uh how many square feet um it's 520 sare ft so and that's uh in response to the 51 square feet that are in the no build and also to the yeah so accounting for the 56 ft that is in the no build Zone as well as the portion of the addition that is the additional uh uh impervious yeah correct that's not in the existing footprint and um we did a 2:1 mitigation ratio so with the 73 ft of the addition plus the 56 ft of the deck 458 ft would be required as a 2:1 ratio so we're proposing 520 Square ft it just fit nicely in that little corner and you're going to remove whatever's there are there structures there no there's no structures there but when we bought the property we inherited some things along way this an old house I know I have an old preil warhouse so is there a lot of work you need to do here is um the house hadn't been lived in in 30 years so we went ah had originally gutted it and started the interior portion and uh it's just been kind of one thing after another to get us to this point a lot of the exterior work is done um the sidings already done the windows already done it's really just the roofing and the painting that would affect the neighbors's portion so when I look at this picture and I see you know there their patio here when I look Google Earth I I didn't see they just put it in recently it basically AB buts the property right there okay and this the house next door with you said the siding was done with I mean this this one end of the that last portion here like this last portion here needs to get ripped down because the foundation is the left and collapsing so that's why that last portion is not sided the smallest structure the the one the very last piece exactly that's a piece that's collap and falling down Foundation sitting on brick currently so that's coming off correct and it's just going to be repoed existing same size and then you're going to put the same structure back correct same size structure yeah exactly one same level one level two levels I believe I believe they're going to continue the roof line all the way up at that point so there's excavation for a foundation there is right is there is there I don't see erosion control is there erosion control yeah there is a hard to see but it's in brown right here coming okay that was a question I had earlier all right good silt fence backed with mulch sock okay uh mean I like what you're doing you know you're you're more than adequate uh replication of new area uh I just have questions with the the neighbors concerns and you're saying it's just this one one time is going to be when you do the roof that you have to coordinate with him cuz he's and uh no other concerns with construction materials being in the way or no nothing spilling into his driveway yeah like he said there's another access entrance to the Garden Center itself so a lot of um construction traffic can use that entrance and not be at the driveways okay the garden center being um so the green houses are utilized as his garden center so we grow flowers there from seed and uh vegetable plants we grow plants from flower cuting the year round I'm growing there so in about uh 3 weeks get flower deliveries the green houses will heat up to 68° each one of those green houses will be filled with flowers yeah and it's technically on the property over from 1315 South Liberty but there is another access point that leads the show the other access you mean for vehicles for vehicles yeah um it's not on this plan because it's not on the property um but it would be over again do you know why they want to come in uh where her driveway is is that because there's no other way to access correct yeah and I believe you mention it shouldn't be a big issue honestly I talk to the neighbor pretty commonly I see him often it's not one of those things that we're at odds or at War but I'm sure he just wanted to make it known being that he rents out with the Airbnb which unbounce to me till he sent a letter I didn't honestly know they were renting out um honestly nothing would have changed on our ends we still would have notified them and spoke up and let them know what we're doing it's not like uh they're being thrown out out of the blue of what's about to happen and they're supportive of it they want it done I mean they're looking at a house that's half done at this point yeah they want to see they want to see somebody living there you know what I mean they don't want to see it dark every night and have to worry about what's going on in that house it's a vacant property at this point other than the fact that I run the business there and I'm there on a daily basis and who will be living in the house is it myself and my fiance so we just built just to live on the property and run a business there is all what the end result is what we're trying to do okay good uh just as an as side what is I'm not even sure you know but we permitted a the construction of a school on the other side of the road is I'll believe it when I see it my friends I've heard it that it's supposed to be built for years on years onion Town shut down and nothing's happening it's got to be two or three years we even said that oursel I mean if if anyone's going to be noisy I would say it would be the school being built with excavation equipment starting at 7:30 in the morning rather than ourself that's going to be out there paint in the front sing you know it's two totally Polar Opposites honestly who's going to be really the noise burden is going to be you know three houses down no when are you going to do your work what's that when are you going to do the work daily Monday through Friday no no no when are you going to do this work oh we're looking to start it in the next month you are yeah we're looking to get I mean this thing's been 3 years of a process but we're looking to get rolling on as soon as we get the go- ahead from yourself we're going to go ahead and submit for the building perit and get cranking on it hopefully the winter is mild and we can dig the foundation come the beginning of March and get oursel going You' been in front of the zoning board of appeals we hav't yeah we need a waiver we ended up pushing the we need one but you guys tell us yeah we ended up pushing the deck over few inches to meet existing zoning code and so it's not making an unconforming a lot more con non more unconforming right what nonconformity basically what are the setback requirements down it does still need zoning board approval um so I would touch I see that there's an email in here with um Brian Z Kelly definitely stay in touch with him get get all those Wheels in Motion okay definely okay sounds good all right so it's so the issue is the side Lot line yes yeah the side set back and then they are existing non-conforming so the issue is whether they're going to be they're not allowed to become more non-conforming it's continuing the non-conformity yeah so yeah so it would still need zoning approval too oh yeah we'll be in touch perfect so but if they don't get that relief what we do is it going to you know um if they don't get that relief then it may be an amendment or an administrative Amendment um back before you guys but we'll we'll deal with that when we come to it but yeah usually it's see other way around they get the relief there first but it's it's up to the applicant some people come to conservation first to see if there's even a chance some people go to zoning first it's yeah well the zonings I see relief given all the time yeah if zoning does have another comment or want us to move it it would be moving it would be either shrinking the deck or moving it but we did move it over 02 feet which I thought made it in the conform in the conforming okay the the other yeah I'll talk to zoning though make sure the white outline is the existing structure that's that's that's there right up against the property line anyways yeah my my understanding was that we originally had it a little bit closer to this lot line but because now we shifted it and it's at more of an angle it is not coming any closer to that lot line than existing conditions when our first version of the planet was so we did move we did pull it back from the lot line where is the existing driveway the existing driveway is shown with these dashed lines right here and where will the new driveway be pink in the pink so with this little turn around and that's all outside of the 100 foot buffer um yeah all the new driveways out of the 200 so it's within the 200 do we have any issues with something along those lines within the 200 yeah uh and how about uh storm water roof runoff type deal do you have any plans for that yes so the with this there's an additional 561 Square ft of impious roof area proposed so we are taking that in this gray area right here and sending it to a okay ingr infiltration Pond yeah how's that getting there um it's conveyed through a pipe I am not sure the exact specs off the top of my head I think if you zoom out the specs are on a drain with a with a pipe that goes schedule 40 to probably a sha tank and is that something you're going to create that uh area of where the pipe is going to Y it'll be um if you scroll up to the top of the plan there's a detail on the infiltration tank so the idea is the water will just sit there and naturally infiltrate and not scour or add to flood issues and you're all set to go with that a lot of times we see that and people kind of back away from it due to the expense and we just companies so it's very normal to me to install something like that so I usually will install stuff like that all the time so when they mentioned it I'm on board if anything you could pump the water out of the tank and you repurpose it to water the flowers in any shape or form that I can conserve water we're on board okay good uh Mike you all said yeah I just want know who decides whether that's adequate or not is that something that um what is adequate sorry the storm water yeah for for the storm water management yeah I think it's engineering in town is who we submitted engineering I want to say that's who we submitted it to and they didn't have any uh okay bad feedback thank you that's all I have I think I like to see those yeah yeah um line any questions questions Mary um I was just curious on the image where the um the addition part that you're going to take down and then redo the foundation did you just show us where that is in relationship to the other person's property the dog house yeah um I believe that's this portion yeah it's like a five what's it it's a real small section it's like foot section and and the house is further up towards this way house is way up here so like in the pictures shows closer to like the patio they have there like a fire pit y it's like I would say I don't know 10 ft off of that give or take yep Y and the that whole piece is coming down and then you're going to re build the foundation and build the two stories correct now is this all going to be a slab or it's going to be P concrete foundation y slab yeah oh no Port concrete foundation I'm sorry I didn't hear you correctly you're going to have a basement there yeah it's going to have a basement it has a basement currently there do you get water no no no perfectly uh fine down there never have water issues on honestly uh even at super super high tide like when everyone else is flooded out like e and propane and everyone on the other side I have several feet to go before that plot of land would ever even remotely get close to flooding I guess um it sounds like you have a good relationship with your neighbor I just wanted to check he just wanted to ensure a harmonious process so I mean this is an aici ially like the Conservation Commission piece but um he's just asking that you avoid encroachment on his property or driveway during the project y um and that you have a construction management plan that incorporates debris control which sounds like you have that and then the noise mitigation and then just coordinating schedules with him to minimize anytime guests are there with construction and it sounds like you're comfortable with all that I just want to make sure I mentioned it cuz we do have the letter no problem thank you appreciate it I'll that in Mary yeah is there any public comment or questions none um okay um what does everybody think I think it's fairly straightforward um okay so we have three things to vote on we need to vote on closing the public hearing we need vote on a waiver and we need to vote on um an order of conditions so if someone can make a motion to close the public hearing first we do that I'll make a motion to close the public hearing for our 5th 13 South Liberty Street D number 14-14 3 I second the motion all in favor I all okay next up uh the applicant is asking for a variance to build a portion of the deck within the 50 foot no build Zone and they are proposing a mitigation area to offset uh the loss of the with buffered land I guess there uh so I guess our next question is do we need to uh vote we need a motion to Grant a waiver and we need to vote to approve that waiver so I'll make a motion that uh we Grant a waiver to allow the applicant uh to extend the the debt uh 51 ft into the no build Zone uh in accordance with the plan and the uh replication area that's uh depicted on the plan is there a second I second the motion all in favor I I all right and the next is we need to uh vote on a motion to issue an order of conditions and if any additional conditions are added you want me to yeah go ahead all right I'll make a motion that we issue an order of conditions under the notice of intent for 13 South Liberty Street D file number 14-1 1430 applicant Pat O'Brien uh with condition that the applicant prior to uh beginning uh notice notify their neighbor at what's the address over there at 11 South libery uh prior to any encroachment on that neighbor's property that the uh applicant uh use uh uh uh use uh uh what what are you planning to use for runoff or for erosion control what's that erosion control I think it was uh they proposed a silt sock all right and that extends from all the way all right it's on the plan that the applicant uh utilize erosion control as shown on their plan uh that uh the applicant uh what about any stockpiling I think um why don't we just take a step back the applicant at the neighbor the abutter asked that his memorandum to us to the board be included as part of the the record tonight yeah now let's recognize that that the applicant has a copy of the neighbor's concerns is that correct the applicant agrees to uh conform with the neighbor concerns to the uh uh as much as possible and to keep the neighbor informed of any uh in any possible encroachment that's correct and you the applicant is the neighbors said you have permission to do this in accordance with yeah um is there anything else um no as long as we get that letter as part of the record yeah what about uh when the work begins is there area you're going to have materials to where are you going to stock stock pile your material I figured uphill on the upper portion of the property you show that yeah just show probably up outside of the 100 buffer zone if possible yeah and that's um a gravel driveway so it'll be a okay that they all piling be done on the gravel driveway yep yep all right that's it that's all the motion that's all the motion is there a second no second all in favor I I okay you're good to go just uh thank you everybody word of advice you have this order of conditions is good for three years and if after three years if your Project's not completed which we hope it is you are eligible for a oneyear extension waiting after that oneyear extension you'd be in violation if you're if there's any construction taking place after that so and when you're done you have to come back for a certificate of compliance and don't wait 3 years for that either okay good luck luck thank you uh for old and new business uh the first issue there is minutes from our January 9th 2025 meeting thank you guys have a good night night good luck see you later uh has everyone reviewed the minut the minutes and make a motion to accept them I'll make a motion to accept the minutes from January 9th 2025 I second the motion all in favor I I okay any other uh new business uh well oh I have a quick question the U the last meeting we had that some sort of status update on the U the crossing the crossings down by the new portion of the rail trail is there any there letters went out to basically those neighborhoods um and we're going to be walking down that trail hopefully there's some melting going on this weekend and we're going to take a walk down there but notifications went out to everyone to clear those crossings get them out of there and we're going to be inspecting regularly and the next step is going to be formal enforcement orders have you heard back from any of the the property owners no no how do you s certified or just regular male uh regular male yeah and who's going to walk it uh myself and Brian Cassy the planning techn will be down there okay dress warm H dress warm yes absolutely we will dress warmly we'll bundle up take take your snowshoes yes definitely uh okay so that's I guess that's it right that's it okay if someone make a motion to adjourn we we'll be done I make a motion to adjourn I second all in favor okay thank you all for coming out for all right such a short meeting okay