e e e e e e e e e e
e e you a white Stadium which is like the woman um Lou before um what are you gonna make say about those two items being continued at the outset at the yeah okay
okay great okay why don't we get started here so good evening so we're here for the um meeting of the uh town of danver's planning board uh it is uh just a little bit past 7 o'clock here today on
February 25th 2025 we're here at uh Danver Town Hall in the Tumi room uh my name is Lewis George I'm the I'm the chair of the planning board and I'm joined here today by Jee hartnet who's our uh clerk as well as Michael dulis who's a member so we do have a a quorum
currently present um and I did want to mention as just as at the outset we do have a number of agenda items uh today and the third and the fourth items on the agenda with respect to tras lane and then 50 Independence away there will be
a continuance on these items so just so folks who are are aware of that okay so then let's move on then let's go to the first agenda item okay the first agenda item oh I was going to say I'm sorry also um Josh Morris is here for the town staff is
here with us today and so why don't we begin with the first agenda item is the uh chatam Estates definitive subdivision formally 69 North Street map 15 Lot 27 a request by chadam Estates LLC for the release of
the performance guarantee for the chadam Estates definitive subdivision and so uh we have a gentleman at the podium if you could introduce yourself for the record and good evening John col andony one of the partners and Daryl Sanders with me uh the other partner evening um first of
all uh great to be back here on a a simpler item um and uh we really like to thank Josh for all his hard work and US walking us through the uh the process and uh uh keeping us on the straight and narrow so we're here for chattam State's definitive subdivision formly 69 North
Street map 15 Lot 27 and we're requesting for the chadam states LLC for the release of the performance guarantee for the chatt state's definitive subdivision um and the engineering Department Steve King and Henry Clark um
we have their blessing and uh we're uh we're we're ready so that's what we're here for okay all right sounds good very good thank you I'm going to turn things over now to the um uh to the board to see if they have any questions I do notice as well in our materials we have
the um we do have the memorandum from Stephen King uh dated February 21st 2025 so uh just in terms of questions uh Jean do you have any questions no I don't have any questions I took a drive down there today and it
looks good thank you great okay great um uh Mike D coolest do you have any questions no questions thanks okay yeah and I'm just taking a look here just not really a question but I guess just a just a comment so and if I recall here when this was approved you know back you
know uh you know a while back and I think this is noted in the engineering uh memo as well um well I think under the bond has been complete it's been found to be satisfactory with the engineering Division and they also noted as well that the 7 755 ft chain link
fence um around the swma was deleted uh from the planning board decision at um at the request of the developer and it was approved by Town staff and so I think that was I believe that there was a condition and Josh correctly there was a condition in the original approval with respect to the offence that was
around the retaining area but yep um yep so in January of 2022 um during the um pering process for the subdivision there was a conversation between the developer and the town about um a fence around the
storm water basin and at the time the condition was basically uh put the fence on the plan but um once once the storm water system is installed MH that um Town staff would review to see if the storm motor system
was working properly and was functioning and um it was up to town staff whether it was deemed a fence was necessary and town staff and its review with the engineering and planning department um decided that in this
instance um the fence was not needed or required so it was not ultimately installed but um it was under you know it was the town Town staff reviewed this the item as a condition was written so got it so okay very good okay so sounds
good and so the next step of the um uh so obviously this is a request for a uh uh for a um for reduction of really of the of the full amount of the uh the guarantee is that correct Josh yes that's right yep it's a request right
it's ultimately actually a a release of the performance guarantee in its in its entirety yeah okay got it okay and then so of the um and then uh The Next Step would be something would be once we once we vote on this today there would be something filed with yep there would be um yep
there would be a de decision or document that um that I'll provide to the developer um to be recorded and um it could be provided to the bank or whatever the purposes needed whatever
however whoever needs the document would be available great okay sounds sounds good this is um I don't have any further questions but um I'm I'm happy that the you know uh engineering signed off and that's great uh is there I know this is not a p this is not a public um hearing
but if there any uh since we do have members of the public here do any members of the public have any questions or or comments with respect to this okay all right then uh hearing none um I guess I could uh entertain
a uh I guess it be enter I'd entertain a motion for the release of the performance guarantee uh for the chadam Estates definitive subdivision sure I don't know if you need to read it its entirety but but if you'd like to that's fine okay yeah um
certificate of completion and release of Municipal interest in performance security the undersigned being a majority of the planning board at of the town of Danvers have determined that the construction of ways and installation of Municipal Services shown on the plan entitled chatt State's Danvers Mass
dated May 25th 2021 revised through February 7th 2022 known as the chattam estate's definitive subdivision have been fully and satisfactorily completed by the applicant in accordance with the board's rules and regulations to serve all Lots the plan can be found in the
southern Essex District registry of deeds as book 4082 9 page 358 the performance of the subdivision is secured by 59197
524 held under a tripartite agreement pursuant to Mass General Law chapter 41 section 81u and in consideration of completion of said construction and installation the danvas planning board hereby releases its interest in the performance
security referred to above executed as of the 25th day of February 2025 okay thank you very much motion has been made is there a second second okay motion's been made and seconded any further discussion on this motion if not um all in favor please say I I I any
opposed none okay thank you it passes very good so good luck yeah thank you thank you for your work okay let's move on to the next agenda item here is uh this is the Beaver Brook Woods definitive
subdivision this is 303 to 333 Maple Street a request by Beaver Brook Woods LLC for a reduction in the performance guarantee for the Beaver Brook Woods definitive subdivision so Mr col Tony so for the record John col and Tony for Beaverbrook
Woods definitive subdivision um and we're requesting by Beaverbrook Woods LC for reduction and the performance guarantee for the Beaverbrook Woods definitive subdivision so basically we were at about $240,000 on the tripot um the engineering department
which we agree with them uh is bringing it down to $7,595 and some change I believe um I think we have 17,600 I think was 17,00 okay um and we have no problem with that we agree with it there's a couple items that we would have already had done but
with the weather the last 30 days with the frost we haven't been able to do that so uh we're going to go till April 15th uh we should have it completed in March if the weather keeps going in the direction that it is but we'll have until April 15th and it'll be completed by then um so we're basically asking if
we can bring the tripod down to that figure that the engineering department uh suggested okay very good okay sounds good um any uh questions by members uh of the board Jean any questions for Mr Colony no I don't have any questions
okay uh Mike any questions at all no questions okay uh and I think that the um I think you you answered my questions in terms of so in terms of timing we're looking at uh so really it's it's it seems like it's pretty close to the Finish Line right yeah the the items are
not difficult at all it's just a matter of the weather with the frost that was it yeah so okay that sounds good um Josh anything from from staff at all with respect to this um nope I think the two big just the two big pieces um is just
you're right the the time just the April 15 2025 and then also the just the amount right um uh the request is a reduction from the existing $24,988
um to the remaining um 17,600 which was um established or um you know and agreed upon by the engineering division um and in the memo that was in the packet it just lists a couple of those kind of um
bulleted kind of I don't um minor items minor in nature sure um but um it's definitely close um so okay that sounds uh that sounds good now this is not a um this isn't a public
hearing but just uh since we do have members of the public here does any me any members of the public have any any questions or comments with respect to this request okay and let's come back to the uh come back to the board so it looks like we will need I see in the packet here this is um is this would be a
seventh modification to the tripartite agreement so I'd like to uh I'd like to entertain a motion okay you seventh modification to the tripartite agreement references made to a certain tripartite agreement dated December 8th 2020 by and
between Beaverbrook Woods LLC here and after referred to as the developer and Bank gler a banking corporation having a usual place of business at 160 Main Street Gloucester Massachusetts 01930 here and after referred to as the bank and the planning board of the town of
Danvers here and after ref referred to as the board whereas the developer has completed a significant amount of the subdivision site work and whereas the developer requires additional time to complete the subdivision work including remaining site work and preparation of
engineering certificate and as built drawings and whereas all parties to this agreement desire to secure and guarantee the full and faithful construction of the ways an installation of Municipal Services has shown on the plan now therefore for valuable consideration the
adequacy and receipt of which are hereby acknowledged the parties agree as follows one the time for completion of the developers obligations is extended from November 30th 2024 to April 15th 2025 unless such date is further
extended by a written Amendment here of entered into by agreement of the parties here to two by a vote of the planning board on February 25th 2025 the remaining balance head held under the tripartite agreement is reduced from
$240,900 3285 to $17,600 to secure the remaining incomplete work three the developer will adhere to all the conditions in the daners engineering division memorandum dated February 21st
2025 all for all other items and conditions of the tripar Arte agreement not expressly amended hereby remain in full force and effect executed as a sealed instrument this 25th day of February 2025 okay thank you very much
the motion um motion has been made is there a second second okay second by uh Mike dulus any further discussion on this okay hearing none all in favor please indicate by saying I I I any opposed none the motion passes thank you
very much appreciate it thank you good luck okay so let's move on to the next agenda item here which is uh tras Lane partial release of Covenant and so this is a request for a partial release of Covenant established on August 28 1972
which is associated with the definitive subdivision plan entitled proposed access to Folly Hill development Danvers Massachusetts and dated June 2nd 1972 And also known as tras Lane danver's Mass okay and I think that Josh do we
have a uh an update on this I think there was a yes request for a continuance yes that's right um the development teams provided an email today requesting this application be uh be continued to our March 25th
2025 meeting so okay okay very good and is there anything so I guess when you know so obviously we can't discuss the I guess we can't discuss the merits of anything of what what sort of do we know what the status is at all can we give a little bit of an update sure um we did receive
a um peer review document from Howard SE Hudson which who is our consultant who was our third party consultant um and um so that should be in your packets um that was sent to the development team
and so um in terms of next steps between now and March 25th 2025 um we will likely receive a response um from um from the development team as a response to our third Pary engineering
memo or our third party's memo traffic memo um as we speak right now um I think at that meeting on the 25th that those two documents will likely be discussed and I am so the traffic peerreview
document and what other documents and then um that uh I'm anticipating that the development team will then have a response to our third party from so our third party peer viewers Howard Stein Hudson and their traffic engineer for
the development will respond to that memo um over the next couple weeks okay and um so that will likely be the conversation at the meeting on the 25th March 25th and I am trying to um ensure
that Town Council is at that meeting um so so we anticipate then that this will be a um I know we so this is not the the very next meeting so this is the meeting following that so we anticipate that we will have some um they'll be president we'll have a uh discussion at that
meeting yes uh as we speak right now that the um that's what I fore happening okay all right sounds good so what do you need from so you need from us a um we need to have a a a motion to um
continue this uh this that trust Lane partial release of Covenant application to uh March 25th 2025 do you want to so moved oh second is that sufficient I guess if the board could say that if genan could say
that motion not okay yes sir um I make a motion we continue the trally and partial release of Covenant to the March 25th 2025 meeting okay very good a motion has been made is there a second second okay second by Mike toulis any
discussion on this uh this motion um uh hearing none um all in favor please indicate by saying I I I I any opposed none okay so very we good okay and very and for the minutes
here Jim seers came and he's he participated in the TR Lane discussion just a moment ago okay um great and so let's move on to the next agenda item here which I think also is going to be um I think you indicated that we also are looking at a continuance this is a
public hearing for 50 Independents way this is a request for site plan review pursuant to section four of the zoning bylaw submitted by Chick-fil-A uh car of bowler engineering for property in the commercial 3 C3 zoning District the applicant proposes a standalone food restaurant with a drive-through and
Associated site modifications map 63 lot 5 unit 1 so Josh could you give us an update on what is yeah um with respect to that application so the applicant team similarly uh sent uh an email to
continue the item of the next meeting um I believe the development team was just in the process of kind of finalizing the plan um a little bit more um and so uh we just they weren't ready
maybe to I think they just wanted to finalize the plan a little bit more so um they thought it might be um beneficial just to to continue to the next meeting and without getting into the merits of this of this application this is the just the location of just
maybe members of the public this is in the Liberty Tree Mall area this is Yep this is a site that's um currently The Friendly Toast building um the application is proposing to demolish that existing building and build a new
uh what we call Zing ba a restaurant with a drive-thru use which is a byright use but because of the the new building um it needs a site plan review from the planning board M um it's not our typical
drive-through situation it will have three drive-throughs I'm sorry could you could you speak up a little bit sorry yeah it's not the typical Drive D through that we generally see in town it has two kind of two drive-through lanes and then a third lane for mobile orders but
um when they're here at a future meeting we could get into the get into the application a little bit more but so this would be is said three drive-throughs is that as as as the for the application okay right and so this is is a request for um they're
requesting that it be continued to our next meeting of March 11th that's correct okay all right so guess you'll need a motion from us in that regard that's right Jean can you make a mo yep I make a motion that we continue uh the 50 Independence Way public hearing to our NE next
meeting March 11th 2025 okay motion's been made is there a second second second by Mike D okay very good any further discussion on the motion to continue okay hearing none um all in favor please say I I I any opposed none
okay so that's moved moved on all right let's the next agenda item here I think we have minutes and so these are the planning board minutes from our uh uh January 28th uh 2025
meeting okay everybody had a chance to review it and okay can I entertain a motion to to approve the minutes so move okay Jim uh first is there a second second second by
Mike any discussion on this if not all in favor of of approving the minutes as written please say I I any opposed none okay so let's um so that's it for the the agenda that we do have um you
know this is usual part we talk about any sort of updates or things that are coming up I know we've had just in terms of since we've last met uh we had the we had town meeting and so uh you know all of the um you
know all of the the uh the zoning articles from town meeting were approved with the exception of the lighting article and I know that was referred back to um to the planning board so we'll be having it looks like we'll be having some further further review of
that um and you know because that was a public hearing I assume we would we would need to reopen the public hearing on that yes we would have to right we'd have to re because it was closed with the planning board we um what
T the T proba likely a special town meeting in February of 2026 I mean potentially that's not in stone but um in our office we view that that's potential um we would similarly to what we've been doing the past couple years um we would
probably have several kind of zoning Amendment type articles and that lighting would be one of the several items that we would probably propose M yeah and without getting into the merits of it I know there was some I think there were I mean I think there were some you know I think there were some concerns raised at town meeting floor at
the uh with respect to that and so ultimately it was voted to refer it back to the planning board so so we'll keep so we'll continue on on that um we also do have um I think you mentioned as well
we have a um uh and there was a meeting that uh that was here that I attended a couple of weeks ago I think it was on February 12th uh dealing with a housing production plan and so I believe that that is um and it was it was a well
attended well attended meeting um and and so U and it's our you know it's my understanding that that is ultimately that the the the housing production plan that proposal is coming will be coming to us for a discussion and ultimately a
vote is that that's correct yep so I think I think as we speak right now um the in the idea um either Aaron or Brian but probably Lely Aaron um either at the March 11th meeting which is looking very
likely that it's the March 11th and not March 25th at March 11th um the idea is that we would uh we would have a discussion and um with the board and um talk through
that housing production plan I guess um I put it in the board packet and I sent it around to the group um between now and our next meeting um if anyone the group has any questions or comments or concerns with the plan I guess I I
would request that you uh just you if you you kind of if you could read through it and if you had any comments or questions or modif modifications if you could just let me know and then um when we have it as a discussion item in
this um at a board meeting we can kind of talk through we could talk through the comments or so I think it would be anticipated that we would be talking having a meeting to discuss it to discuss it and then at some you know you know maybe likely subsequent meeting where actually we would have a have a vote on it would that be yes I think
that's the that's the plan that's the that's I think what we're thinking and for members of the public who may not have attended the meeting on the 12th here um the housing production plan is that uh that will be or it is on the town website uh it is it is it is on the
website yes um on the if you Google Danver um actually I've been read it yet I've been Googling danver's H housing production plan and it's I think the first thing that pops up there's a on that page just three or three to five
other documents but I believe today we made sure to put up the latest and greatest which is as we speak um has a December 17th 2024 date December 17 2024 yeah yeah cuz if I recall there was an earlier version like from the housing production plan from from from a past
housing production plan that was there and I took it down we took it down today to put the latest and greatest so okay so the latest is up there so if people have any and obviously if people have questions as well I think they could reach out to the planning office as well you could reach yep send me an email or give me a call or any of that any re
corresp any any type of corresponden is um happy happy for any correspondence great okay that's it good all right any um so that's so those are sort of things things coming up um just wanted to say
anything else in terms of um uh fellow uh fellow board members oh I just have one other item um something that um Brian to Kelly the plane director wanted me to share with the group and the town and everyone watching and the board uh we are um working the the town and the
planning office is working with mapc the metropolitan area planning Council it's the regional planning Agency for Metro Boston we are working on putting together um what it's what we're calling as a transportation needs assessment okay um we're just trying to look at
ways that we could improve transportation in town um and the beginning of this process um we are trying to get a bunch of folks to do like a 5 to 10 minute survey um we would really like to get have a decent a a large amount of kind
of correspond large amount of people responding to the survey um we're having a little bit difficulty you know finding people so it would be great um for people to spend the five or 10 minutes doing it um there's how do people find out about the survey that's a I could um
I I have it uh I have a pamplet right here at least but I can put on the website okay and uh there's a QR code there a QR code so people in the room here could actually do the QR code and yes okay sorry um and there's a website um on here so def if I I recommend just
everyone so it would be for anyone who works in town lives in town has property in town MH so pretty much yeah you don't have to you don't have to be a resident um I've taken the survey my wife's taking the survey I think it's yeah it doesn't take that long yeah so if I could just that would be my uh my shout
out for the evening okay that's good could I ask a question Lou um just on the um the information you sent out on the damis housing um yeah just a question on
the adus and how they're going to relate Visa the EA that we already passed in town M maybe you can ask Town Council as far as we have on those particular projects those are D restricted so there's a title issue in that in the title to those properties they have a
restriction which restricts them from having just family members right so now the Adu is a is a state law that's going to preempt that but how do we reconcile that do we get something from the town
to kind of wipe out that title issue is there is there have you heard of anything cuz that's going to be a major title issue yeah we've been talking internally about in the office this yeah right this e that we've had on the I think we should be careful about getting
to In The Weeds tonight but um yeah we right the EA that we have in our book and then right with the state law that passed a couple weeks ago right um we are kind of working our way through some of that I hear what you're saying um it
is something in our office that we've discussed internally um maybe at our next meeting we might Erin might have a better better response to the kind of question but yes do we have town is town is that something yeah wouldn't the Town Council because on a state level I mean
there's a lot of U communities that have effas right right they right communities call them different yeah but we model those off the pey zoning and we did it probably 20 years ago and uh it would
seem to be that uh that needs to be addressed Statewide how do we how do we handle that the state question I can't answer like Statewide but for the town of Danvers I think we are that is as we kind of refer to um at a future town meeting I think
it's something that we are going to have to like reconcile in our zoning bylaw with the F LA and the Adu law um kind of how we referring to the lighting piece um we probably would have to change some of the stuff but and the Adu
does not discriminate as far as any Zone in town so it can be in any Zone No it can only be in single family residential not any Zone well it could so so it would be R1 R2 R3
right residential zones yeah right yeah so you can't say that because you're in R3 you can't have that oh yeah right I think when you when you said any Zone though it wasn't yeah I meant resident yeah yeah so yep so R1 R2 R3 yep and you can't you can't on a local level change
that anyway you have to that's right so you really just going to follow what the state law says I think you have to right so you're not going to have any other you you're going to do away with your e and follow state law there potenti
prospectively at least right right prospectively but what happens for are you asking about what happens for like deed restricted well that's a problem that I'm talking about from a title that's a title problem that we have to deal with this moment I can't speak to that piece as much as the new Adu stuff
but um it is it does bring up kind of issues right and that we had something on the books for 20 years speed restricted we have this new state law um I think um where we sit in our office is that over the next couple months or
until our next special town meeting um it's something that I think um we're going to have to do something about so who's the special permit granting Authority for which for which item for the adus there is none right now because there's how do you how do you regulate
them I mean at least know that they're in existence so that you can tax them like the town does with the EAS and and ensure against issues and part of the reason why he created that was to identify you know the extra who's living next door how many of these do we have
in our neighborhood right um I don't think there's a way to limit neighborhood I don't think there's not a way to limit that well but uh if I'm not I'm not necessarily I think we need more information I'm wondering if if there is a maybe a grant available we've had
presentations by people in the know for zoning and other things before would that be worthwhile to present to staff volunteers board members and towns people so we know what we're dealing with ju you're talking um the the new Adu law you you
just like to be informed about that yeah I mean I don't know if tonight not be the best tonight might is probably not the night to do it but um no I'm just planning in advance for our next meeting if we're going to talk about it sure so that we could have you know you know I don't expect you to par
back the law to me and then for everyone to understand that because there's so many different things that right I mean I think people are going to be concerned about for briefly the state law if you're if you where our office sits in
from the state it's any single family zoning District so R1 R2 R3 mhm if you're 900 sare fet or below and you meet all the dimensional requirements from in terms of the standard setbacks that you the ability you could
get a building perit it's allowed as a matter of right it's a by right but if but if you're not building something and you have a split yep what do you have to do to get do you still have to get a building permit if you're if you're going to you still have to do building you still have to get a building permit if you're
whatever you're doing you know whatever but if you're not building right so I have a split and I just make my basement I have two ways out MH is there a town involvement or not so I can't answer every I every every but
I'm hearing what you're saying because if there's no board to review it other than a building inspector if someone's going to actually build something right right if I already have a split right and I already have two ways out yep so it sounds like Jim that you and I I
don't disagree where the board sits part of this uh reviewing this hous and production plan a kind of overview or summary of this new state law would be beneficial is that what you're saying yeah especially if we're trying to count
and encourage more housing if people going to be able to do this without not necessarily be regulated but even be counted yeah I mean let's face it a big motivation of the efla was to kind of legitimize these situations encourage the family situation but also the town
knows about them right so we know that you've got two families living in this property and we can increase your real estate tax MH I think it's fine that's a byproduct but we also know that now counting on our housing stock we provided for essentially housing for
another family member that maybe couldn't afford it so that's going to go toward our numbers for increasing this if we don't have some type of counting this poent what the hell are we doing poent I don't know 100% um in terms of that denominator if
that's your yeah I don't know if the how do you capture the information I I mean how do you regulate it Without Really regulating it right you regulate it on a local level like we do with you know a lot of the stuff we do the the building permits a local building permit based on
state law right the building code right but there's regulations to a certain degree yeah to capture that information yeah the uh the detached is obviously simpler and cleaner than the right the attached when it's in the on the third
floor or in a situation like I said where there was where it's in a it's a B where it doesn't necessarily call for a building permit is there is there a procedure for issuing a CO or something like that I think that that would always be required but I can't speak for the Building Commissioner but does it say
that in the Adu legislation do you know I do not know that specific question about that allow separ they would be required they would require at Le at least the det detached units would
units require separate would require I don't know don't allow that okay but that's the state law so yeah but don't use the mic yeah you want to say something you can use the mic do you
want to I'm just did you want to use the mic say something yeah just you can identify yourself if you can identify yourself Lois McKenzie Precinct 3 town meeting member the DCU they're going to be able to have separate use sorry um they're going to be able to have
separate utilities um that's I think that I think that's a possibility yes because EAS aren't allowed that they have to run off the same heat the same water same electric I think it's something that we're trying to so that's something that's got to be figured out yeah it
does for sure okay all right so it sounds like we have some this definitely you know I think we could use some additional I think some information especially about the interplay of the the new Adu rules and the and how it affects EAS and sure how it all sort of fits into the
housing production plan too so okay okay I'm hearing hearing you folks Jim anything further on that or no like I said I mean just in in anticipation of that meeting I think we got to there's a lot of stuff we got to pull out of there and figure out as a practical matter how
you folks are going to manage it yeah yeah and how much leeway one thing I'm wondering like how much leeway does this does this you know either way or how much discretion does the state provide in terms of the ability to regulate as well so how much does the you know in terms of permit granting
authorities that sort of thing what is the um you know well if the if it's by if it's a birate project you know it's not you can still have a byright project but there's still I mean there there's still some potential some regulatory it would mostly be a lot of these questions
I think in concerns are they fall under the build the building the building code to be honest um the questions that have been discuss tonight to be honest but just as a yeah I guess is a philosophical question sure I know the intent is to
provide more housing right and and to provide um right low income housing or income that it's basically a mix of it's like it's a mix of housing uh like housing type right I mean that's really
General so I guess if you're successful what is success is success in inreasing the housing stock by 10% or worst case scenario you're allowing every house residential house to have an
additional dwelling unit in town so how would that affect because we hear it anytime we put a six lot subdivision in water MH schools traffic yep worst case scenario this takes off oh great I'm
going to live in danvas in my parents basement and now now or doesn't even have to be my kid it can be anybody that's right and I can charge them rent that's right and now we have extra everything and now we go from a population of 25,000 to 50,000 in 10
years is that really what we're trying to accomplish so we're not the small rural town that we and we haven't been for a long time but we get a lot of committees that are anti or sure don't want any more development but but by
this process we're not building more we're just including more people so I guess so I guess that could accomplish while we're trying to do a good thing to have more affordable housing worst case scenario we have more housing more
traffic more more schools more water usage more everything because the state thinks it's a great idea and we can't do anything about it on a local level I I think that I think that last sentence is kind of the sentence yeah so I'm just wondering what
kind of I me push back they got when they were passing this or anyone ever asked that question I mean I'm I'm sure that there was concern but but you know where we sit today kind of your last sentence there's not too
much we can you know if you if you meet the five to six bullet point requirements I think it's worthy of a conversation I think it's worthy conversation with you know with between with Town staff as well as inclus inclusion of Town Council to see what sort of what this what this all means
sure if someone wanted to put a 300 unit uh building on any property name a piece of property that's either Reus or it's vacant you could yeah all the questions would come up what about water usage what about our schools what about
traffic and now we cannot even ask those questions because we don't have any ability if if they are not within any of the setbacks they're smaller than 900 sare feet if they're you know if they meet the five things yeah but if but if 10 people on
my street and there's a lot of splits decide to do this and they can rent out their basement for hey maybe it's two bedrooms is it just limited to one or it could it be two you can only have one Adu per lot but how many bedrooms it's
square footage yeah it's not it's not bedroom ft I could have two or three bedrooms yeah and under Danver um if you look at the rates for low-income housing Section 8 housing on the NorthShore a three
bedroom they get $3,500 a month so I'm not sure that's is that what we're encouraging and if we do that that's three more cars in my driveway right or on in front of my house potentially in front of my house
on if I don't have a big driveway in a garage now they're on the street so I'm just playing Devil's Advocate how is that going to how could that play out that could play out I hey we want to go have our kids go to damis schools this is great let's all go to damis and and
live in someone else's house yeah um yeah that is a possibility have a but I don't know if we're going to answer I don't know if tonight is yeah I hear it sounds like it kind we got extra time we didn't me yeah no I was going to
say I don't know if it wasn't really an agenda item I just didn't want to um this is a preview of of yeah um I guess where I said um right it seems like be careful what you wish for I guess uh the housing production it
sounds to me like yeah in add just I think that the Adu stuff is a piece of the housing reduction plan but it sounds like there is definitely questions related to the the new Adu law Y which I which I understand it is quite different
than although we do like we do have e in town so they're not they do have some similarities but um they are the Adu stuff is much less rigid than the Adu stuff the Adu stuff I mean the FL right now on the books is
you have to have uh blood relative right so yeah you know so it's pretty limited can you ask for more than 900 fet so that the so that's the issue I don't necessarily want to get into it but um our office is um we do have to put some we are in
the proc not we do have to put regulations on the book we don't have any right now because we're waiting for the state to come out with their guidelines and stuff but um we are that's something that we would put on a future special time meeting is regulations for
folks who didn't meet the setbacks who want to go above 900 and that's when you would you know start to see you a board either this or zba would see some of those potentially and the state guidelines could also I think you know
when when the state guidelines come out I guess that could inform ultimately what the state I mean what the what what we can do as a town is that it's on the website so the state guidelines say 900 sare feet and then there's things you the municipalities can do they can have a site plan review they can title five
requirements regulations concerning dimensional setbacks in bulk of height of structures and they can regulate short-term rentals and then there's a list of things they also cannot do right okay so ft is on their website it says be either no larger than half the gross floor area of the principal dwelling or
900 square ft whichever is smaller uh whichever is smaller okay but is there ability to get a waiver like in the now the idea theba approves more than 750 all the time right right so the idea would be that folks would have the
opportunity to request a waiver Andor variance or but that as we speak right now that is not on the the only way you could do an F don't want to get into it but the only way you could do the Adu in town now as we speak is Meeting those five or six
okay bullet points we don't have regulations if you don't even if you don't meet one of them yeah we would not regant to building permit for things but if you're not building anything sure that internal one is a kind of different for an animal but I'm hearing your kind of question about that how do you even
regulate it or even know it's there I mean they would 100% need a certicate occupancy okay for the tenant so there' be an inspection Y Pay you 50 bucks and they come and inspect the
esses and your smoking CO detectors MH but other than that it's possible that it's that but I wouldn't I'm not sure what the building I'm not I can't speak for the Building Commissioner but it's possible that that's it but it I would assume that it might be a little bit more than that but I I can't speak to it
would we want to regulate where people have the opportunity to potentially increase the square footage do we want to regulate it by zone so maybe in zone district one where you only can go 10,000 to be able to go so high 20,000
and two 30,000 and3 I think that's a conversation that we'd like to have with um at the appropriate time yeah I think we have a number of things that we want to that are I think a number of questions that we will that we'll have when we when we talk about this and so I
think that uh um you know because I think there is going to be a real interplay between this and the and the housing development plan so and the and the special permit granting Authority would still be the zba on the potential ability to have some leeway it
sounds like well we haven't really we have I think we're our office not to speak for the plan director but the idea would be when this all of the your sort of zoning um questions would prob would be part of a the public process with the
board and the the town resident um that would be part of like the public process that hasn't been determined um but maybe potentially in the fall or um well I don't know why we're waiting to the fall if it's in practice right now well cuz
it would have to it would it's not going to be an annual so the only we could only change the zoning bylaw at you know at a town meeting so we'd have to do it we'd have to open a public here right but I think we need to understand I mean a lot of these you know special Town meetings
that we have we're we're we're talking about them for months right and on this it doesn't sound like you know we're going to need the building inspector here we're going to need Town Council here we're going to need probably both boards the zba and the planning board
planning staff M and maybe an expert on on the law that can whether it's barowski or whoever I think that's his right you're right uh you know that can can can help us with these issues and and if we don't have
any control or any anything then you know granted you're going to regulate it through either um you know a tenant U occupancy certificate assuming someone gets it um unless neighbor says hey there's three
new cars next door uh what's going on over there they could have three next yeah they could have that anyway I'm going to start charging my kids yeah but uh yeah but I think there's a lot of lot of things that so it seems like out of this though there's kind of I kind of I I would com mentalize into
kind of two different things there's the housing production plan which Adu is a part of it m I would say that the a significant majority of our conversation though tonight was probably more related to a zoning zoning language related to
the Adu and not um they're obviously both connected but the Adu stuff is probably a portion or chapter or section of the housing production plan and it you know obviously this law is is new and will
change the landscape a little bit M but the a significant majority of the comments tonight to me are more related to how do we want to the zoning piece and what we want to put eventually in our in our bylaw in not
necessarily the housing production plan if that Mak but maybe I'm that just me but would you be counting these as units as housing units that is a question that I originally didn't think so but what I've I mean but I've um I would think
you would but I think that that's a possibility so that does accessory dwelling dwelling unit that's going to help your numbers well not necessarily because it increas it they actually it won't because they're not they wouldn't be part on the Shi and you would just be adding to the denominator but I don't
want to get into the weeds of it too much but it actually would be probably negative to be honest so anyways whatever all right lots to lots to talk about yeah I just without it being on the agenda I didn't
just don't want to get too much we can't get into too much detail it but but I think we it's good to at least preview some of this and some of the questions that I mean I think you know if eron's the one who comes and he could he could talk about this subject for quite a l so we have a resident um
question just yeah hi Lauren Steves um town meeting member Precinct 3 um Jim I think you make a lot of good points I think the state passed legislation without dotting their eyes and crossing their tees and left us with a lot of like unknown answers that we should have
the answers to um in regards to the housing production plan I know it was mentioned that it was going to be discussed at the next meeting and then potentially voted on um when I went to the housing production meeting Aaron simply stated well this is just you know
we're just talking about it so my question would be if it comes here and it gets voted on who does it go to after if say it passes or say you make tweaks adjustments whatever who does it go to then I believe that there are tweaks or
there are modifications that it would ultimately have to go back I believe not just if I'm incorrect but I think it would have to it would go back to the the TR the Housing Trust I believe that they would have to it would go back to the to the the D's affordable housing TR
I believe so so I guess my the that' have to be reconciled in some manner right okay okay so so say whatever plan and then it goes does this go to town meeting for a vote I don't believe so no no so who votes this in is my
question um I don't know I believe that I know the B I know I was told that the board the planning board definitely does I don't know if it has to go to select board but we could have that obviously answer by the next mon okay because in conjunction
with this Adu law with what you said it doesn't go towards our Shi nor I the units them so right if someone does a detached unit or the internal unit that Jim was describing in his scenarios
um they're not those units are not on the Shi they're not deed restricted in any manner I mean they might you know because it's 750 ft or 600 they're smaller and they'll be cheaper but they're not they're not considered they're not affordable so they're not
going to be on our right so so that's my point though is so by ride in every residential district everyone can put an Adu which then adds to our housing in total in this town doesn't go towards our Shi right and then we're proposing I don't know for sure but I've
been hear I when this first was passed a couple um I don't want to say that for certain but I've been hearing that it's there's potential that the units will that then that they'll count towards our total our total number right for the denominator I think it's a fair question to ask though in terms of what the what
the effects of the a of adus are in terms of for housing inventory and because we're talking you know the big thing is we got to meet the 10% we have to meet the 10% right so you add adus which may or may not count towards Shi and then you have this proposed wanting to allow two families by right in every
residential Zone in this housing production plan which then also doesn't count towards Shi so you're putting our inventory way up here and then you're bringing down the affordable and it's it's not good it's not good from for the temp for the for us to meet the 10% you're you're putting all of this
housing out but none of it's meeting the shr or the affordable housing from from that standpoint I guess looking at it from that angle right that I guess you could view that as a a con yes I guess all right because we we have to meet the 10% it's a mandated law by the state for
the affordable housing yep that's it's if we don't then you can have a 40b come in right but my point that don't meet it right but my point is is that adding all of these these adus and these two families by right it it increases the inventory but then the affordable
housing then it's that's going to happen in every town every town look at the tops fs and the Boxford and the marble heads they don't have 10% and now if you allow them also to do the same thing that we can do they're all everyone's going to have the
same problem it's just going to it it reaches a point of no return I mean it doesn't make sense right and that that's kind of my point is I mean the Adu was was put on us by the state we don't have any say in that but we do have a say in this housing production plan and wanting to rezone all our res itial units into
allowing two families bu right I believe that was just that was just a potential recommendation isn't I believe that's part of the housing production plan so if that were to pass then yes that would be part of it that would but just for informational um that would that's just a a recommendation that the town could
consider that you know if we were to do that we would have to go that would have to be a town meeting vote and that was my question yeah that would be anything in the plan is just there it's just recommendations or their opt so you know as the town of Danvers if you want to
increase the housing mix or you know our goals that are listed in the plan everything in that plan is sort of is is a guideline or recommendations if any of those recommendations or guidelines were to be adopted it would ultimately have
to be a public hearing with the planning board as a zoning Amendment and then it would have to be voted on by time meeting that was kind of my question based on who's vote you know who's voting on this this plan sure so that was so I think it depends on what it is in terms of whether it's a recommendation just just a pure recommendation or if it's actually sort
of a call to action right like to have our our bylaws even if the policy was we wanted 30 units in every single unit parcel in town you know it would have to go to town meeting and it very like you know so I understand the kind of the
concern um but there are there is a public process and uh that plan isn't it's just it's sort of like a way for the town to look at what are what are options or the tools on a toolbox right so I wouldn't necessarily um even if it
if this is adopted or this is approved by the board if town meeting ultimately doesn't want to move for doesn't mean that any of the recommendations will ever even necessarily move forward but my question if if the zoning bylaws were to be recommended to be changed who
approves that go to it would timately go to but it fromation as so it's still this the process of us talking through and talking through with members of the I think is really important too because then that will ultimately result in the recommendation that goes forward thank
you okay all right so we have a a fair amount of coming uh Coming Attractions any other questions from members of the public I'll be brief and we'll have a plenty of time to talk about this at our yeah Jim telling me you remember Precinct three I I just want I mean to
to everyone's Point yeah I mean the state has been putting out a lot of mandates lately and it's it's kind of you know there's been a lot of problems with them they've had a write an emergency fixes for several of them in in the recent you know current future here and and I really think we should
push back on this I really I don't know what the other towns are doing but that 3A mpta zoning all all sorts of cities and towns are pushing back and the state auditor just said hey it's an unfunded mandate not even legal in this state so we really should push back because to
the points that lawen made in it's just going to increase our housing and we're going to lose our 10% and everything else we got to push back this is crazy all right thank you anything else from any other members
here okay so our next yeah if you have a question sure yeah um where are we Karen nastic um 40 years in town Lo road yeah um hi hi I'm curious how the I wanted to know what was going on with Folly Hill
so I I Googled it and it came up with 600 Apartments mhm 600 apartments and that we're already above the Mandate for the town um the laws I could comment yeah um I believe that she's referring to that
TR Lane project and I believe it's 440 apartments or unit or multif family units and um it's actually in the town of bever city of Beverly in the city of Beverly so it the city of Beverly MH okay right but it's but we we'll still been but but there's still you know but
related to this there's a there's a request for a partial release of the Covenant that was on the agenda for today uh and it's actually being continued to the 25th of March and that sounds what does that mean release of Covenant well it's dealing with the release of of a of a of
a covenant that was done back in 19 72 when the area was first developed and when it relates to Transportation improvements and such we've it's been discussed at several you know meetings previously and we'll be and on at our next meeting we'll be talking about uh the results of a of a peer review
traffic study that was done in terms of effects of traffic I wanted to make a request because a lot of times you you must have said danver's housing production plan M five six times tonight and we asked for like a 7 ask for like a
definition it I would think it wouldn't be that difficult as to explain what that is um and try not to just throw out adus just make sure because you're you're getting new viewers all the time to Define these things um on the agenda
when we do the HPP stuff I will write out I will not just write HPP for informational purpose so at our meeting when we'll when we talk about the housing production plan we'll walk in we'll walk through sort of what the you know what it is sort of the the
parameters of the study um and we'll also you know be mindful of of acronyms as well in terms of talking about accessory dwelling units you know that sort of thing thank you okay are there any other proposals going up for downtown that are coming up there must be a
lot I guess nothing in terms of the agenda but anything else that we have that is that that uh I can only speak to Applications have been submitted there is an application for a project that 61 High Street that we'll be discussing at the March 25th
meeting okay any other way to describe 61 High Street AC from the gas station station great y next to the telephone building that's what I mean just a just so people have a frame of reference because it's so easy to say that thank
you of course thank you okay anything further at all I think we went think we went through we covered a lot of I think we covered a lot of non-agenda items so no we covered it a lot of it was was previews of coming soon so it's always good true it's always good to know what's on the
agenda what's going to be coming up and so we can anticipate uh also so that so that we all and SOA since so staff can anticipate what's going to be coming up and what questions we'll have so I think this is good no it is it just yeah so and appreciate members of the public uh uh raising questions as well so that's
all good so okay um anything there's anything else I'd entertain a motion to adjourn do we did pass the minutes oh we did pass the minutes already um just one thing on on Mr Mor Ro's comments I think the difference here Mr moros is this is
a state law that's already been passed so the difference between this and the MBTA law the MTA law required the towns to do something in this instance you know they've already passed the law so we didn't do if we didn't do
something to comply with that law to put the zoning in then we would be um in violation of that law but by putting this overlay on all the towns this Adu law we're not required to do anything so I don't think if we say we're not going
to follow the law it's going to do any good because it's already been passed so it's it's it's different than the um MBTA where the that required every town of the 170 towns I think in the
Commonwealth to do a certain zoning to comply with that law that's not what we're talking about here this law has already been passed so we have to deal with the law that we're dealing with and I think we need to get some clarity on how we're going to deal with it sooner
rather than later which is going to you know factor in the staff and I I think it's you know it's going to go a long way toward you know this housing production report because whether we count it or not it's going to have a
devastating impact on it if we count all the units that's something that I've sort of recently heard I didn't think that that was initially but I've been hearing that more and maybe ER Ain and Brian could probably speak to it but um at this
moment I'm not I'm not sure if there's a detonative answer on that if they are counting as you know as units but I've been hearing rumors or Rumblings that that's a possibility in the planning world so yeah would think if I have my unit
and I meet all the you know I've got my certificate of occupancy for my rental unit you know would I be able to get uh Section 8 housing in there potentially cuz I have a housing unit if I meet and I get a section a tenant in
there now I have a low-income tenant that we can count which I guess you'd have to but that wouldn't count towards Shi having Section 8 on a on that just on that by by itself you know what I mean that wouldn't be a deed restricted unit if you're accepting Section 8
vouchers but I think we're getting the weeds a little bit but okay yeah but here but I could do that it's possible yeah seems that way how would you be able to count it though unless you had input from damis housing you know what I mean I just there's a lot of it's there's a decent amount of layers to it
for sure especially the the ones that you you you keep bringing up uh the interesting uh scenar for me the uh right the in the the attached or internal ones are like the complicated
ones even from like the in the utility piece right if you want to do a unit in the Attic they have to do all new utilities that seems you know not connected to the prime house so it seem it gets it's stuff that we need to kind of figure out so
yeah go yes you Iden yourself for the record John buad Crest Line Circle to Jim's Point wouldn't these units require a kitchen they would yeah so you just can't rent the three bedrooms out in the bottom no no it's just like the EA the
EA is extended family living so you have a separate kitchen separate bedroom in separate entrance so the separate kitchen would require a building permit to put the new kitchen in right which is where You' get your scoring but there's
plenty of houses that might have two St in your you I mean some families have two or three stoves in their house they do a lot of cooking I'm just I'm just thinking you know if on those that don't then you you'd be able to get a count through the planning department because
they'd apply for kitchen I mean the whole idea with the e was to try to capture some of these to make sure they're insured properly also to count them for housing stock and to tax them you know where you have that extra unit now if we have all these extra units and we don't know where they are they're
still going to always need us to take an occupancy so I think where I sit I understand that but you can be sure there's plenty of rental properties out there that don't have certificate of maring but they probably I mean yeah we don't get into WR there are no I no I'm not disagreeing but when we lived in DC
when we lived in DC there always there were a lot live in row houses there were a lot of folks who had that first you know that basement row you know that would rent out to students or you whoever damis is not like Bevy Bevy requires you to get one for every unit I have I had a four family for 30 years I
just sold it m and all we had to do is get a certificate once every 5 years check the esses and the smokes and cosos they barely even walked into the place in the units they barely checked them out if you're in Beverly anytime you rent a unit you have to get one that's not the law in
Danvers yep and there's a lot of Apartments sure people don't get them every time they turn over the apartments unless you have to get it part of a section a tenant so it seems like there's a lot a
lot of work that needs to be done yeah okay all right very good so lots to lots to come all right all right anything further at all Josh I think that's it all right members of the board motion to
adjourn motion to adjourn made by Mike is there a second second a second all in favor please say I hi hi any opposed none have a good night thank you you okay all I just figured