All right, we're ready. We're on. Hello, Danas. Welcome to our December 2nd, 2025 select board meeting. And D, can can you do the pledge of allegiance, please? Thank you. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and
to the republic for it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you. >> Good evening evening everybody. Thank you for coming out on this uh terrible
night the weather. Um glad to see you all. Can I have approval of the minutes of November 17, 2025? So moved. >> Do I have a second? >> Second. >> All in favor? I opposed. >> Thank you. At this time, we're going to
do new public business. Um, please come up to the podium, introduce yourself. The clerk will have the timer for three minutes. Anybody want to go up? Bill. >> Thank you. Bill Brad Street town meeting member
precinct one. Last night I attended a ZBA meeting. The board one of many that the town have that does a lot of business makes helps make the town run smoothly.
Question came up. Uh, it'd be nice if they got a because it's the Christmas time if they got a raise possibly with mileage written in there. I don't expect an answer tonight, but just please tell me you're working on it. >> We're working on it.
>> Thank you. >> Does anybody else want to come up? Going once, going twice. Okay. Thank you. All right. The board will vote to accept gifts in accordance with MGL chapter 44 section 53A
2500 friends of the Damis rail trail Paul McNelte 20,000 friends of Endicott Park Chris Sandborn IRA motor leased vehicles to Damis police department police chief level um thank you Chris introduce yourself
>> good evening Chris director of natural resources I'm here tonight uh presenting for the friends of damis rail trail and for the friends of bendar work uh to ask for your acceptance of two generous gifts from two great nonprofit organ organizations in town that continue to
do remarkable work for the community. I'm joined tonight by Bill and Lois McKenzie, president and vice president of the Friends of Endicott Park. Um Paul McNelte, he's feeling a little under the weather tonight, so he could not be here, but he did ask me to share his thanks to the board for your continued support of the rail trail. Um he is the
president of the Friends of Damas Rail Trail. Uh the first donation tonight for your consideration is a $2,500 donation from the Friends of Dammers Rail Trail to purchase and install four to five new trees. These trees will be installed in the west side of the rail trail between
mile markers 1.9 and 2.0. This is just north of the uh the new Wayne Marquee pocket park kind of in between that area between the Hobart Street parking lot and the pocket park there. U moving on to the second donation. This is a $20,000 contribution from the
Friends of Endicott Park. This is to fund the replacement of the back carriageway door of the visitors center. Uh you may recall earlier this year you accepted a $30,000 donation from the Friends of Endicott Park to replace the front door. Uh that work is underway right now and um I saw the door. It came
in the other day. It looks it's just beautiful. Beautiful mahogany door. Uh 10x10. It's a large barn door. So the the rear door will be very similar to that. Uh so I would just like to thank the board for your consideration. Thank Bill, Lois, and Paul for just the phenomenal work that they do every day
just to improve our community, improve these um natural resource areas in town. >> Excellent. Thank you. Chief, did you want to go up and then we'll do a motion? All three. >> Good evening, Chief Level DMS Police. Um for about 15 and 20 years now, our
Toyota has leased a um vehicle for the DS Police Department for the DARE program. Um over the past few years there's been a RAV 4. The last two vehicles been Toyota Camry's. Um our last lease was up about a month and a half ago and Ira has offered to generously lease another vehicle for us
for a three-year period. Um the IRA Toyota pays the full price of the lease. The town pays the registration and the insurance on the vehicle and it's assigned to the school resource officer. Um is currently um there's a design to wrap the vehicle with the deer logo. I believe you have a copy of that in the
packet. Um that should be done hopefully next week or two and we're requesting to accept that this vehicle on behalf of the town as the deer vehicle. >> Thank you. Thank you, Chief. So, um board members, I think I'm going to have a motion to approve individually with a
letter of appreciation um 2500 friends of Davis Rail Trail, Paul McNelte, 20,000 friends of Endicott Park, Chris Sandborn, and IRA Motors lease vehicle to Damas Police Department. Um, do I have I guess I made the motion. Uh, do I
have a second? >> Well, you you Madam Chair, you said you were going to take them individually. >> Oh, individually, yes. Do you want to make it motion? >> Madam Chair, I'll make a motion to accept the gift of the Damis Rail Trail and uh acknowledge it with a letter of thanks. >> Do I have a second? >> Second. >> Second. Okay. All in favor?
>> I >> I opposed. And the sec next one. Madam Chair, I move we accept the gift uh uh donation for the Endeott Park Visitor C Center's door with the appropriate letter of thanks. >> Do I have a second? >> Second.
>> All in favor? I opposed. And last but not least, >> madam, I move we accept the gift from Myra Toyota um with a letter appropriate letter of thanks. >> Do I have a second? >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I opposed. Excellent. Well, thank you.
>> Excellent. Thank you very much. Oh, >> Madame Chair, if I may, I was going to say during um at the end of the meeting during new business, but while I have Chris here, I I would like to just thank um the river
committee. I attended their meeting last week and I was just really impressed >> by the amount of work the town and the resident volunteer do to keep our river um our waterfront the way it is. So I I
did not know how much work goes behind the scene and I was just blown away. So I just wanted to say thank you. >> Thank you. Got it. Did you want to say anything? Mike? No. Okay. I just want to say thank you too. Um, Bill, Bill and Lois, you do an awful lot for the Ender
Park. Did you make the door? >> No, you didn't. Okay. All right. I just wonder about that. >> No, I know. But thank you. And uh it was sad to hear about uh the horse, too. Right. So, hopefully we'll get another one of that, but thank you very much. All right.
So, the board will hear from the police chief regarding a liquor compliance violation. Chief, >> uh good evening again. Um, on November 12th, 2025, officers of Community Service Division, Intective Division conducted alcohol compliance checks in the town of Danis. Uh, prior to these
checks, a public notice was posted on social media on October 27th, 2025. During the compliance checks, an 18 two 18-year-old meals were instructed to enter various establishments, attempt to purchase either Bud Light or a six-pack of Bud Light at a store. Out of the 49
establishments within the community, uh, 10 were not checked because they either closed, under construction, or inaccessible. At approximately 6:39 p.m. on this evening, the underage male entered J&J Asian Cuisine located at 156 Andover Street. He approached the bar, ordered a Bud Light, and was served
without being asked for identification. He paid for the beer and received a receipt for this with this purchase and he exited the restaurant to the officers who were seated outside in a marked cruiser. Officer Smith and Officer Scain entered the establishment, observed the Bud Light draft beer still sitting on the bar. The officer spoke with both the
manager and the employee who were both respectfully acknowledged that they had made a mistake and not check for an identification. Um, at this time I recommend the manager be notified and requested to appear before the board at either the December 16th or the January 6th meeting to discuss the violation.
>> Board members questions, >> I have no questions. I uh I'll make a motion when it's ready. >> Okay. Mike, do you have any questions? >> Uh, yeah. Chief, uh, how many checks were performed in that time period? >> Uh, so there was, uh, 39. >> 39. In this particular business, has
there been any other issues? >> No. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Uh, no questions. >> Okay. So, what's the will of the board? Madam Chair, I move we uh request that the owners of J&J um come in and uh J&J
Asian Cuisine come in to uh discuss the vi the the violation and take any action thereon as a board. >> Uh >> I second. >> Okay. And when do you want them to come? >> I my preference is the December meeting if if the agenda
supports it. >> Okay. Yeah. Yeah. >> Um because I would like to know before in case any action uh relates to the liquor license. >> Okay, that's fine. Do I have a we have a motion? We have a second. Um all in favor? >> I
>> I opposed. Okay. Thank you, Chief. >> All right. The board will hear an update from by Heidi Richio, superintendent, regarding potential modifications to the 2026 renewal of a 7day entertainment license at the Locken
Center, 562 Maple Street. Welcome, Heidi. >> Hi. Thank you so much for having me. I do believe in your packets you have documentation that I had submitted to you that was at the request of the board back I believe in June. Um, I am here to
present the enter regarding the entertainment license which was for the sole purpose of entertainment outside of a school sponsored event. At this time, we have not had a non-school sponsored event that had entertainment. But I do
would like to report for other um events that we did have that were school sponsored. For example, we did have the Larkin Gayla, which is our fifth year, I believe. um which thank you very much for accommodating us for that one-day
liquor license by which Venard catering was held. In the packet that you have here, it's the followup on um strictly the entertainment license which is the locking log. There is a log and if you go to the live link, you can also find
it as a live link. I did include that in the packet. However, there was a neighbor that did reach out to me um the day after the liquor license or it could have been the evening of the one-day liquor license um with se several
concerns to which we did go back and forth. Um many of you were on the email chain as well as state leadership. So, you're well aware of what the actual content was. In addition to that, it was requested that there was a police
detail. I did call Chief Levelville. It was a Friday evening, the night before the event to talk to Chief Levelville um regarding that to which he did not have or they do not typically do police um details at alcoholrelated events and it
was a policy or procedure of the department. So what I did do is I did hire one of our security officers. We have five paid security officers that are there during the school day, but if they do work overtime, they do get an hourly wage and that individual was there from the time that the event
started until the time that it left um or that it was over. Parking, you also have a parking plan which was also requested at the board meeting. that parking plan. We do have parking um that is solely for the Larkin
when we have events both during the day and in the evening. There are overflow parking lots on that side of campus. The actual event center does not hold a large amount of people as a maximum capacity. So, there is no need to utilize the north side of campus for any
parking. The additional parking um would sit typically in either the rear of the Larkin area or that back road or up um where Smith Hall is. And at this time that has been adequate for parking. We did submit um two one-day liquor
licenses. Again, those were two for two school sponsored events where entertainment was. We had a DJ that ended prior to 900 p.m. for the Larkin Gayla and then we had musical bingo. um and casino night. Actually, we had three
events. Um and then the casino night was held at the Larkin and that was a PTO sponsored event. So, it was a fundraiser for scholarships. Often, they give scholarships as well as teacher appreciation and staff appreciation gifts during the teacher appreciation
day. The contact information which was also requested and I have a copy of a screenshot of our website. But what we did do is we did put um created a special page just for the larkin as that
was one of the concerns and I also sent the link to Katherine. But if you go on here, this is where you can find contact information for if anything is happening at the Larkin um where there may be concerns that they can
contact us the day of because I know that that was also a question that was asked. Catering information. We are typically using our in-house catering which is our culinary arts and hospitality program which was the intended purpose of the
Larkin. We have not yet had to contract out an outside caterer. However, we have had several events um again school sponsored events, mostly athletic banquetss because many of the athletes have helped build the facility. So, they're quite proud of it to be able to
bring their parents in. So, we did use the services of champions in puberty because they like their steak tips there. So, um and there's a family member that is um on the field hockey team. So, they were they were one of the
caterers that we did use, but we do prefer to use our in-house caterer because we did make a significant investment in the kitchen and the property and we do need to make sure that it is well cared for. We have also um actually Stacy from Vinwood is here, but we have contracted out for the 12C
license. the maximum capacity which was one of the questions that you had asked. Um when we did look at at the time that we met back in June, we had not really yet had an event. So we do not know typically what
the maximum capacity is depending on the type of setup. So we have determined that 160 to 170 using a 60inch round um would be the maximum capacity that is with no dance floor, no DJ, no gift
tables etc. That would be the maximum capacity for again a an event center or an event that would require roundts if we were to do chairs only. So, we did have a Senator Tar had a green crab
symposium and we set up what we call a theater style. We could accommodate 250 chairs in there, but that would really be with no food, you know, um maybe a water station and a podium. Okay. Um due
diligence, it says that we believe that we did follow the law um related to events being held on campus. I think we did discuss this um on a couple of occasions. We did work with DAM who DAM owns the land. We own the building but
buildings 16 buildings but we also own the care of that land. So we did work closely with DAM on that um to confirm that we are in within our rights um as well as through the school committee approval process. the Larkin Event Center, which back in
June, and I know in September I also um discussed this, is that we did officially close that is also in your packet, the Larkin Event Center. And the reason is is that we decided not to go for the full day liquor license um or
the full liquor license under our name because it really is not the most significant purpose of the event center. is primarily used by our students or by our families. And so we did close that. Um we did that. We actually opened up
the event center out of the recommendation of our attorney as well as our insurance agent. And so that is where we did go for that LLC um from a protection perspective. But because we are not holding that license and we have
opted to go for either a one-day liquor license if it is a public event or a private event using um a 12c outside caterer that we did not think that the Larkin Event Center was in our best interest. The revenues, that was another question that was asked, I believe, of
gardener. Um, and the revenues are being placed in a revenue account and that is being used, it's a revolving account much like most schools and communities have, and that is being used to pay for food as well as any staff um or any
other supplies that are needed. But that is readily available um for use because our culinary arts program is primarily doing the service. it does get rolled into um what we call a department within the culinary arts and um hospitality
program subcontractor we have been using um again only on a couple of occasions to date but Venward catering um certainly Stacy is here if you have any questions regarding but that is um what we believe
they are highly regarded in the community and again we do not believe that we will hit that threshold of sales that would require us to get an official bid process. The parking plan, I think you also have a copy in here and it was really for
designated. We do have ADA compliant parking um as well as overflow parking. It is a one circulation pattern. We do have a new sign out there that was made by our design and media communications program. So, it makes it a little bit
easier for them to be able to enter into the Larkin parking instead of having to drive through the entire campus to then do a oneway route pattern. Moving on, then I think the last page is just the
information related that to the LLC. I can certainly open it up to any questions that you may have >> that I did not answer. information. >> Okay. >> Will there be liquor served through the entertainment license without a one day
license? >> Can I ask for clarity on the question? >> Yeah. >> Are you suggesting a one day liquor license from this board? Will will liquor be served through the entertainment license without a one day liquor license approved by this board?
>> The entertainment license doesn't cover liquor. And I think the clerk will tell us that if it's a 12c event, the board doesn't issue a liquor license for that. One day for that, >> a 12cater liquor license. Um, we are only notified of that, right? >> We we are not we don't issue that. The
flip board does not issue that. >> And I'm correct. unrelated and correct in the answer right is liquor service and licenses are unrelated to the entertainment license. >> Correct. >> Thank you. >> Point of information. Will alcohol be served at this vendor without a one day
liquor license? That's the question. >> Madam chair, if I may, what's before the board tonight is an entertainment license, >> not a liquor license. >> Right. At these um events, will there be liquor served? >> Right. That's not the the discretion of this board, nor is it up in front of
them at the moment. This is an entertainment license and so that's >> entertainment license doesn't care about alcohol >> does not address alcohol >> right entertainment only tonight >> entertainment and alcohol >> tonight's agenda item is about the entertainment license and the response
to that >> not not not >> that would have been interest so if there's a caterer that happens to hold a 12c liquor license are they able with that 12c to serve liquor through That that's the question because liquor has
being served under the guise of the entertainment license. They are slipping it in through the caterer through the 12C >> which is illegal. >> And this has been happening and this is what the question is. >> Madam madam madam chair I I would recommend that that is not the agenda
item tonight. This is not a public hearing that if the person the gentleman the the couple the whatever party is wishes to bring this whatever party is looking to uh offer information it can either be done on a new business or contact the town manager to have it made
as an agenda item and a discussion point. This is specifically about their redress of our questions regarding the entertainment license. >> Correct. >> All right. So you get we'll get in touch with the town manager and you can come before us again.
>> And part of this is also I'm sorry part of this is also because this is not a item on the o on our agenda. We cannot discuss it and because it has not been advertised as an agenda item. So we want I know I I'm still have the floor. So, I want to make sure that we follow the
appropriate process by which anybody who has interest in your concerns, sees it on our agenda, and the public is willing to come and support or offer their own opinion on what you're suggesting. But the first thing I would want to do is ask the town manager to investigate and
talk to talk about whether there is a distinction between the 12C and the entertainment license that's being alleged that there's crossover here. I want to protect the interest of the school. uh Vinwer who was the 12C and of the public to have an open public hearing not
not in this forum tonight. >> Correct. I gota if you guys could reach out to um the town manager's office tmd danversma.gov. >> In the meantime, will they be serving alcohol? >> Again, that's not that's not up. Yeah, exactly. That's not on the agenda. >> Has alcohol been served?
>> We madam chair. Madam chair, this conversation needs to end. >> Yeah, this needs to end. Thank you. Please let's go through the proper procedure. All right. Thank you. >> It is not. This is not. Thank you. >> Okay. Uh board members, uh >> Madam Chair, you know, obviously a lot
of the questions were asked at the board last time and I initiated discussions that that helped all of us reach the successful conclusion. So, I'm really satisfied with everything that's here. Um I'm not sure and I'm not holding anything against I'm very happy with all
of this. One minor thing that would make me a little bit happy is I see the please log all calls related to the Lan Event Center for private events. Can we just make that for all events if there's a concern even during a school sponsored event that you went very late or whatever? And I'm not saying there is.
>> I'm just saying let's not restrict it only to private events. >> Absolutely. So that particular is a private event. So I did include it as a private event even though it is I'm sorry it is a public event. I apologize that was a school sponsored event. >> I just noticed the title. I know I can
change that title very easily >> and I'm pleased that there was only one in this time frame. Um we had a lot of neighbors concerns uh hear them and heard them those the nights you came before us. If the result of all of this and all the work you did to give people
opportunity there was only one complaint. I'm can't can't suggest anything better than that. So I'm I'm entirely satisfied with this report. >> Thank you. Gner Mike, do you have any questions? >> Uh yes. Uh, so it appears we can't talk
about alcohol. Um, was there any followup on a complaint that was um I I got a complaint about a man that was urinating outside the building during one of the events. He was against the building. Do you know if anybody followed up on that?
>> I do actually. I received a call or an email or a text message. Um, we do not believe that he was urinating. I believe that there is a video. We reviewed the video. Um, we have the caterer here that was here that evening, but I do not
believe if that is regarding >> Can I just ask for a second? It's out of order for you to get up and approach the um, please leave. >> Yeah, please leave it on the corner. >> No. Um,
and and the parking, who who determines when you're going to have a security officer or a police detail? And are you going to be able to have a police detail if if you haven't liquor? >> Well, I believe the town of Danvers has
a policy that restricts the police department from having a detail during any alcoholrelated events. So I believe that that is on the town of Danvers and not on the school district. We hired a private security officer to do that.
So uh on the park and it says that you you may have you may have somebody I'm assuming maybe I'm maybe I'm reading it wrong. It said you'd have somebody out in apparently in the parking plan. So
would that security officer be out there? Would he have like a vehicle with lights? Cuz it like a night like tonight, it could be difficult people exiting the parking lot onto Route 62, which is a >> Sure. We have high viz vests for all of our security officers that are clearly
labeled. We have lighting, appropriate lighting as it relates to flashers, um, handheld flashing. So, if there is a large event, much like we had our open house where 4,000 cars came through in the course of three and a half hours, we
had security there. Um, and they were able to monitor the parking. >> Okay. And when you do have the alcohol, is it beeron wine or is it hard liquor? It depends on the event.
>> This is for the entertainment though. >> This is Yes. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. >> All right. >> All right. Thank you. >> Any other questions, Mike? >> No. >> Okay. D. >> Yeah. Thank you. Um, is it my understanding that we are not trying to modify the terms
and the restrictions that you have on the license now? Is that correct? >> That is correct. We are happy with the 900 p.m. entertainment end time. >> So all the restrictions that we had issue prior to issuing the license, we
are not trying to change that now. We are not adding anything. >> Nope. We are happy with it. >> Okay. Thank you. No. >> Okay. Great. Any other questions? Okay. Do I have a motion? >> I don't think you need it, Madam Chair. This is just say the board will hear an
update. I think it's a motion to accept the same conditions for the 2026, right? Renewal of the sevenday, >> Madam Clerk. >> If we're not changing it, it would just be a consent calendar item on the next um agenda. >> Okay. All right. So, we're all set.
>> Okay. Thank you, Ga, for pointing that out. >> Thank you. >> All right. Thank you, Heidi. >> Thank you. And if anyone would like a tour of the Larkin to show the parking area and where the lots are, I'm happy to do that. um and kind of explain any other questions that you may or may not have. And that goes for any other member
of the community. So, thank you so much. It's a beautiful space. Okay. The board will hear detailed information as requested on 1021 pursuant to a request to modify the previously granted application of Wakefield Associates Joe Roberto,
project manager to occupy the public way in front of 17 Elm Street. And who is here to speak, please? I am here this evening. Thank you very much. My name is Nancy McCann. Sorry about that. Uh I am here representing the developer of this project, Joe
Roberto. With me tonight is Tim Spencer. You saw Tim at the last couple of meetings uh most recently in October. Also with me is uh Meg Graves uh project architect um that I've brought with me this evening to answer any questions
that you that you might have. Um, back in the October 21st meeting, this board um granted a motion to extend for 60 days the occupation of the street and
the sidewalk in order to allow time for the sidewalk, temporary sidewalk paving, the asphalt paving that was discussed at a a length at that meeting to be installed. um so that the street could be opened so
that the parking spaces would not be obstructed as they had been for the sidewalk that was relocated into the street during the demolition phase. Um that 60-day extension would expire on December 15th. The sidewalk, asphalt
sidewalk, temporary sidewalk has been installed. The street is open. the um scaffolding, the pedestrian safety scaffolding was installed. Uh so the the asphalt uh paving has been put
in and the scaffolding was put in within the last two weeks. Um yesterday uh at about 2 o'clock in the afternoon, I received an email from uh Tim Hudan, the uh building inspector who's here this evening, um itemizing some things
with regard to that asphalt paving, some sloping issues to make it ADA compliant, um as well as some concerns with the scaffolding and code compliance of the scaffolding. Again, we received this
yesterday um afternoon and we have already begun working on these items. Uh for example, the fencing that u was noted as as being a a visual uh
obstruction has been moved back. The um the um paved uh the what's it called? the um warning panel uh for the the sidewalk crossing has uh has been ordered and so
we're working on these items. Again, the last extension that you gave carries through December 15th and it's our belief that all of these items can be addressed prior to the expiration of of that current uh extension.
Um at the last meeting you asked for some additional details uh for timing. I think it was discussed at the at the last meeting and it still remains correct that the sidewalk final sidewalk
which would be the cement sidewalk and the removal of the scaffolding would all be completed by May to June of uh 2026. And that's in keeping with the uh time
frame the CMP construction management uh plan that was submitted back in April. So that uh date I believe uh Stephen King was here at the October meeting. I was not but Stephen King was here. Um,
and the uh May or June date, spring uh date for completion of the final sidewalk, the removal of the scaffolding is all on target to be done by or before June of 2026. So, we're on target for
that. Um, that's what I have for uh for the update. So, we're still within our extension period for completion of the uh the street occupation, which is in
fact complete, and for the uh temporary sidewalk and uh scaffolding, pedestrian um protection to be installed um and that work has been done, but there are some items again that the building inspector and the town engineer pointed
out, and we should be able to address all of those successfully by the extension deadline date of December 15. >> Okay, great. And we have Tim um the building inspector here also. Board members uh questions. Gardner,
>> Madam Chairman, I I I appreciate the the coming back. However, um as I recall in that October meeting, we had requested some written information through the through the town clerk and the town clerk requested. Madam clerk, did you receive the information we requested? I
I did not. >> Okay. And I also rec Well, so so that's a concern. The board voted without any written plan in front of us, giving the benefit of the doubt and extending it for the 60 days with the promise that things would be cleared, but we were
looking for specific documentation. The other issue that we brought up was Mr. Spencer was here and we kind of grilled him a bit and he was unable unable to answer the questions. He's not the developer and he was he was he we recommended that the developer be he had
to represent the development not the not the foreman not the person who was in charge. He brought before us the issue about the um electrical coming in. We had questions that would relate to the developer or their representative and felt but I don't see their developer
here tonight. Again, Mr. uh Mr. Spencer's here, but if we have questions for the developer, not for the on-site person, we don't have that opportunity to ask. So, I'm I'm concerned we're missing the documentation we asked for. And we are and we and and again, we
don't have the right representation here for the board to ask appropriate questions of and that's not a detraction to Mr. Spencer, but his authority or legality or or or whatever you want to call it, responsibility to the project ends at a certain point and the
developer takes over. So, I I'm I have those two concerns still, >> if I can respond. >> Yes. >> Um, we came before the board back in April of 2025. I don't believe you were on the board at that time. No,
>> I don't know if you have seen the very detailed construction management plan that was submitted and approved by this board in April. And that gives you, I think, all of the information that you
may be looking for as far as what's going to happen during the different phases and the timing for those phases. Um, my letter of uh uh October, I believe it was the October
submission um went into confirming the dates of those different phases. So I don't know whether you received that. >> I I don't think that's that's not relevant to what came up in at our October meeting. Our October meeting was for a change was some modifications and
changes and we wanted to see in writing what those modifications and changes were. Well, there weren't there weren't any. Well, you did because that was the written request that was submitted to this board was the only modification.
>> The only modification to the CMP at that time was to extend the time frame for completion of the occupation of the street and the installation of the sidewalk. That was the only change. The
CMP was extremely detailed. It had diagrams and everything. >> The one in April, you did. You're right. You're absolutely right. It did. >> Yeah. >> What I'm suggesting is at the October meeting, we had asked for specific documentation to come back to us and it hasn't. >> The town clerk was asked to contact you
and >> says she had, which I perfectly understand would be the case, but >> absolutely has. >> We hadn't gotten back any written information. Madam Chair, if the town clerk wants to elaborate, maybe I'm not saying it properly, but >> clerk, would you >> I did I did send I did send attorney
McCann and the developer an email back on November 12th um asking for um Nancy the developer as well as any other person with the ability to answer any questions by the that the board may have. Um, it
would be best if there was a memo describing where you are at in removing, blocking the street, the parking spots, and getting that temporary ADA compliant covered sidewalk in place since the structure is over 6 ft. Please confirm attendance. And the answer is the work was done. The
sidewalk is in place, the scaffolding is up prior to this meeting. Now, as of yesterday, there are items that uh that the building inspector and the town engineer have pointed out. We still have time left on the extension. We're not
seeking an additional extension. We were not seeking any modifications of the original plan other than the timing to get us the additional uh 60 days which was granted in October that brought us to December 15th.
>> But I Okay, Mike. It is now December 2nd >> and the street occupation has been completed and the temporary sidewalk has been installed and the scaffolding has been installed and we have some items that
the building inspector and the town engineer have pointed out that we are going to address between now and the 15th. >> Okay. So, what you're saying I think the clerk we wanted it in writing right back to you. >> Exactly. >> And you didn't receive we didn't receive it Nancy. So, Mike, go ahead. jump in. >> Um, in the last meeting we talked there
was a missing we were missing a utility room if I recall >> and so plans are changed to have a utility room command. If I remember the excavator told us the pipes were going to be coming into the lobby. >> Mhm. >> Um, so and Joe Roberto is the product project manager. Is that right?
>> He is the owner of the property and the developer. Yes. >> And Rodrigo RmIrez. He's the general contractor. >> He is. And so they didn't they didn't want to come to the meeting. >> I am here in theirstead.
>> Yeah. So did so the utility room apparently is back on the plan. >> Yes. That we have the architect here this evening who can speak to that. >> But that was a change, right? >> That was a not a change in the CMP. That was a change in the building plans that
were submitted >> and uh needed to be made through the building inspector's office. It was not a change to the street occupation and the sidewalk occupation which is the jurisdiction of this board. >> Yeah. Was it was there a problem with
the uh the sister wall, the center wall there that's going to meet up to the other? >> Yes. >> Right. There was which resulted in the stop work order and that's still being worked out. C >> can I bother with the building? >> Yeah. Tim, do you want to go up?
>> Tim, can I ask you a question? >> I'm never going to say I'm the smartest guy in the in the room here, but there's a wood wall against the old going against the old building that's still there, right? And then there's a masonry wall that sticks out the back. Is that
right? >> Correct. So, um, >> shouldn't that have all been a masonry wall for a firewall? >> Correct. So, u, Madam Chair, through you, um, just for the record and for those who may not be familiar, my name is Tim the Hudon. I currently serve as the building official here in the town of Danvers. Um, so the original permit
for the 17 Elm build um required and was approved for a 8 in CMU block wall that parapited up past the roof deck on the new build at 170. Um once the contractor had started framing up past the second
floor since with the adjacent building we were able to view that they were putting rated CDX and dense glass up which is not a UL listed assembly. Um so that is when the stop work order was issued um that we are still working to resolve.
>> So is the wood wall going to stay? >> I don't I have not received a set of plans that has been approved for the change. >> Okay. Thank you. >> You all set with questions for now? We'll come back to you if you need more. D, >> thank you. >> I think Mike asks all the questions I
was going to Sorry. Uh, so is it my understanding that we are not you're not asking for any extension. Is that correct? That's correct. >> December 15, the work will be done. >> That's correct.
>> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Ghana. Yeah, Madam Chair, I'm looking at the I'm pulling up >> using my phone to pull up the meeting minutes from that meeting. >> Okay, you're excused. >> And then let's not travel that road. Um
>> till 9:00. >> Yeah. So, um select board member to ask motion to extend another 60 days and for the applicant to return within 60 days with the detailed information we were looking for before any further extension. It was seconded by board member Jooko voted
four to one. Uh and so I guess I'm looking for that documentation we were looking for back then and I don't think that the work is done precludes that request.
I guess the way I read this is, and I'm reading here, select board member to ask motion to extend for another 60 days and for the applicant to return within the 60-day period. And here we are with the detailed information we're looking for
before any further extensions. We're not seeking any further extensions. >> We are working >> I think we're slicing the bread very very thin. We were concerned that the the application on the on October didn't contain written information we were
asking for. We asked for you to come back or to provide that information. The town clerk asked you for that information. I agree you're not here asking for another extension. >> Right. But I think that a we don't have the documentation we originally looking
for and b we just don't still don't have the representation of people the the developer or the uh the um >> contract >> yeah or the general contractor in case very specific questions about the project would come up. I respect your representation of them in the legal
matters on this but there may be more detail and I I don't want to put Mr. Sullivan on the spot again for things that he's not responsible to answer. I'm just concerned that I thought we had pretty clear direction here. >> Yeah, I think Nancy, we wanted it, you
know, detailed and sent to the clerk. >> What? And I'm and I am not being argumentative. I I really thought I understood that if we were not asking you for anything more and we were going to be completed within the extension time that you had granted that we were
okay. And I was not here at the October 21st meeting. I did look at the tape so I know what was discussed. I've already read them read the minutes. >> What I don't know exactly what you're looking for from us at this point. I am
absolutely understanding that you would have liked the developer and the GC to be here this evening. They were invited and encouraged to attend. Not everyone is comfortable
as I am coming to these meetings and standing in front of you and being on television and all that stuff. Some people can't handle that and I will just be very honest with you. >> So I am here and what and we have the architect here. We have Tim who you have
met with now twice before. Um what are the the work that was supposed to be completed has been completed. There are now items that I'll call them punch list items. Um
forgive me for saying that because it's beyond that and I understand that that there are code compliance issues and there are items to be done um that we believe we can address between now and and the expiration of that last
extension. So, what are the additional questions if you and and I didn't see them in in reading the uh the minutes or in watching the tape? I'm not sure exactly what what questions you had. I know that you um in watching the tape
there was uh major milestones or something like that. What what did you call it? Highlevel milestones. As I recall, we were looking for specific dates and we we >> were looking for specific dates written down and understanding what those were and what your project plan was. We
discussed project planning and and in my recollection, I'll go back and watch, but even supported by the minutes is even with a lack of those, we gave the benefit of the doubt and said we'll give you the we'll provide the 60-day extension because of the closeness of it
being completed. However, we wanted that documentation. Um, and I'm not sure that that >> and I >> that happened >> and and forgive me, but I I do think that you had that and have it in the uh CMP that was submitted.
>> Uh, no, we were looking for the revised milestone plan which included the extension of of occupying the town property. That that wouldn't have been in the April and and the other thing it was open-ended. As I recall, the the it was an open-ended request and we put a
60-day cap on it because we didn't want to keep this rolling. We and I and in recalling Mr. Bennett's comments were we can't find them if we don't have an end date. He wasn't suggesting he was going to. He's just saying there was no defined end date and we were looking for that. We wanted a defined end date. We
put one on there. We were asking for what your defined end date was um for the for the entire project. Right now you're saying May, June. Okay. Um, and maybe that's in the original documentation, but if it's not in the original documentation and that's an
extension, we we wanted some document for which we could say this is what was provided. This is what we agreed to. Um, we gave a 60-day extension based on the trust that the developer would come back and and and have that documentation.
I you know >> the um my letter of October 16th does have deadline dates actual dates in it for the completion of phase three and four of April 15th and the final paving May 15th.
>> Um that was I'll go back and look >> in writing in my October 16th letter to you. Um, I wanted to >> Can I uh can I ask a question?
>> Sure. Go ahead. >> Um, >> Mike. >> Yeah. Uh, how Nancy, how are you going to make any of the deadlines if there's a stopark order? the at this point um the architect has been
working with the building inspector uh not on a daily basis but every few days they've been in communication is my understanding again me is here who can address that um we still think that the items that are the jurisdiction of this
board which is the sidewalk and the street occupation again street occupation has ended >> was the sidewalk reconfigured or is it or is it the same as it was on the original plan? >> Same as on the original plan that I mean there's a temporary sidewalk in now
that's different than this you know that than the cement sidewalk that's going to be put in once the facade of the building is complete then you put the the cement final paving on. That's the jurisdiction of this board and that um
is is and has been on target for um the spring and it was discussed May June of of 26 and that was in my uh my letter of in October and it was discussed at the October 21st meeting. Town engineer was
here at that time. He also discussed that time frame um as not being impacted by by the stop work order the completion of those areas which is why we're in front of this
board. >> Can I jump in for a minute? Tim, can you go back up? Do you have any um qu any concerns or comments you would like to enlight on us? Please, >> just to address Mr. Bean's question. So,
um 780 CMR does not um have authority over public sidewalks. Okay. So, that's under the ADA and PROWAG um which is a public rightway accessibility. So, the stop work order that has been issued, I've put it in writing that the
um sidewalk work and the scaffolding work is allowed to continue. No construction is allowed to continue on the physical building. Um, so we are allowing them to move forward with the at that time at with the utilities and with the sidewalk in the scaffolding work. Um,
with that being said, without proper pedestrian protection under chapter 33, the stop work order will not be lifted. Um, myself and Stephen King, regrettably town engineer, could not be here tonight. I had the chance to have a detailed conversation with him this afternoon. Um, we disagree respectfully
with Mrs. uh attorney McCann's um assessment that it is just punch list items that need to be completed. Um during an inspection, the scaffolding was not correct. It did not meet either the barrier or the overhead protection requirements uh that are put in place
for pedestrian protection under chapter 33. Um Mr. King is also under the impression that the scaffolding needs to come down. The asphalt needs to be completely removed. Uh the substrate needs to be graded and leveled and then that asphalt needs to be uh reporter
repaved. That would require the sidewalk to be shut down, pedestrian traffic to be routed back into the street as it was previously. Um from the onset of this, Mr. King and I were were very hesitant and very uncomfortable with pedestrian traffic being in the street during the
winter months. That is what we were trying to avoid. Unfortunately, as you see today, this is the situation that we're in. Uh Mr. King does not believe that this is a quick fix or a punchless item. He believes that it is a complete
repavement of the asphalt. Um as well as I believe that there are some significant significant work that needs to be done for the barrier and the overhead protection. So to you madam chair um from your and
and they might be doing 247 work but you as the expert do you think that that work could be done by the 15? >> So in my conversation with Mr. King he is expecting it to be two weeks. Um so again I as the building official do not
have authority over the public right away. I'm here speaking in lie of Mr. King who is not available to be here this evening. Um, like I said, I had a conversation with him at about 400 p.m. this evening or this afternoon. Um, I went over what his concerns were. Um,
and he believes by the time, again, weather dependent, shut down the sidewalk. Jersey barriers have to be brought back in, installed. That pedestrian um pathway out into the street needs to be inspected. The sidewalk needs to be blocked off. The
scaffolding needs to be removed. The asphalt needs to be torn up. The substrate again leveled compacted graded so that when the asphalt comes back in it is to code it is with the proper cross slope that is the issue with it now as well as the landing by the page
street crosswalk at that time that would need to be inspected by Mr. King and approved. Then the scaffolding, the barrier, and the overhead protection would need to be installed, inspected, and approved by myself or a member of my department. And then the sidewalk would reopen.
Uh to you, Madam Chair, and I don't know if it's him or if that's not done within two weeks, what jurisdiction does this board have? Uh what what do we do? >> Respectfully, that's that's not with my authority. That would that would be with with the board. >> Okay.
>> Um does Dan Uh, select board Bennett wasn't here. Kathy, did he have a We want to read what his comment was. >> I can certainly do that. >> Thank you. Please. >> So, this um comment was made by Dan Bennett and asked to be read into the record for tonight. Wakefield Associates
Joe Roberto project manager on numerous occasion has shown a disregard of the residents of Page Street by blocking driveways and unloading large flatbeds of building materials in front of residents homes. They have no concerns for public safety as they have moved
said materials on the public way without a person to direct traffic. They also have shown disrespect to this board by appearing several times without the project manager or attorney for owner present to answer questions. Danveris is a welcoming community. However, we
expect respect from our residents and compliance with basic safety measures. Fellow board members, I hope any modifications granted tonight will have specific dates included. Dan Bennett,
>> Mike, did you have another question? >> And I'm sorry to go back to this and I I don't know that you can answer this. Um, how do we overcome this this system wall? Uh, I know you have to wait on plans. Um, >> so so we are we are waiting on plans and
and with the architect here, if they'd like to speak to it, they're certainly welcome. I can tell you the stop work order was issued um on November 5th. Um there was some back and forth with myself and a couple of architects from the firm um with some alternative means and methods. Those were ultimately
denied on November 24th. At that point, we are waiting on the architecturals as well as the structural plans to come back to show how they are going to be able to support that CMU wall given the fact that the foundation was not placed where it was supposed to be placed. M
>> madam chair, can I just ask I've been without my email for a couple of days for personal reasons, so I don't know if this is covered. I don't know if Mr. Bennett's comments are covered. I I don't know about the I don't know anything about a stop work order right now other than my question is is the stop work order pertinent to the the
sidewalk closing and the scaffolding issue we're addressing now or is it something else? >> Got it. >> No, I'm I'm asking you so if it's to Tim >> is this I don't know what the stop work order is about. >> I this is the first I'm hearing of it. Um, like I said, I went out my email for
a couple of days, but does it pertain to the sidewalk, the scaffolding, and the appropriate asphalt grading and things of that nature? >> It it does not. The issuance of the stop work order was because of a a deviation from the plan set that was approved.
However, at this point, >> proper overhead protection for pedestrians is required under the building code. And at this point, we do not have that proper protection. So while it is not the driving force behind the stop work order, the stop work order will not be lifted until the pedestrian production issue has taken place.
>> Sure. I I'm just trying to understand the relationship between the two because the modification we made was to allow the scaffolding until December 15th. That's what I thought we were back here about. >> And if they are able to achieve what you suggest, you Mr. King suggests which is
all the removal, the replacement, the regrading, the reassphalt or whatever. That's the compliance they need that doesn't have any bearing on the stopwork order. It doesn't lift the stopwork order. It's it's a important fact but not to
the scaffolding issue. >> Correct. So So with respect through through you madam chair so the issue before the board tonight is the occupation of the public right away. >> Right. If the applicant is able to redo the sidewalk work to Mr. King's
satisfaction and they are able to provide the pedestrian protection to my department's satisfaction, that is the matter before the board. That does not necessarily mean that the stop work order will be will be lifted, but it is one component in lifting that stop work order.
>> Right. But if it's about you, if we're here because our authority is the public way and you're clear about that, then if you if the applicant were to exceed the December 15th for whatever reason it were, they would be, if I'm not incorrect, subject to fines, >> okay?
>> As according to our bylaws or our our our and that's why we set a 60-day date. We were looking for a hardened date in October. We set 60 days without, you know, and said if it if you're going to go beyond that, you got to come back
with all the details what we're looking for. So, I appreciate that select board member Bean is asking questions about the work order, but I want to make sure I understand the distinction between what we're here to listen to and and discuss regarding the public way
>> and the firewalls and the this configur. Um, and Mr. Bennett's comments are to the use of the public way. So I find them certainly within uh within you know the the the realm of what we're discussing. >> And just as a point of clarification,
the applicant will continue to occupy that public right away until the scaffolding was down. The issue at that time is that the public rightway was closed and pedestrians were in the street. So Mr. King and I are of the opinion that that will once again happen, will need to happen for the work
to be done correctly. the street will be closed and then it will be opened with the applicant still occupying it by the means of the scaffolding. >> Thank you. I was just looking for the clarity. >> Any other questions? >> Go ahead. >> So if if we get back to the public way
uh to attorney McCann. So, how do we address the issue of having blocking and parking in front of people house and some of the things that select board me uh member Bennett raised? Do we have
someone there that can direct? >> Yes, I I'm hearing about those items just tonight um in uh when uh the town clerk read Mr. Bennett's uh concerns and I will bring those to the attention of
the general contractor as well as the developer so that that will be addressed. Um because that that sort of thing I think we all agree shouldn't shouldn't happen. Um
I believe that uh that we are able to well not I believe the uh the developer um and the contractor believe that we can address the concerns that came out yesterday afternoon at 2:00 regarding
the pavement and the scaffolding within this next two weeks. It sounds like if I understood Mr. who done correctly that Stephen King also thought it was a two week could be could be accomplished in
two weeks. Um and so I think we're we're okay with doing that. But what I will say is that in the comments that we received yesterday um I did not read in there anywhere that u that Mr. King thought that the
sidewalk that had been poured needs to be removed completely. So I I think we can still work within the the two weeks but that is not written in the comments that we received yesterday. There were
issues with regard to um sloping primarily sloping and and those sorts of things. Um I understand the scaffolding has to be redone. The developer understands the scaffolding has to be redone. But as far as removing the
asphalt and regrading and and all of that, um, Mr. Spencer is here this evening. He did do the pavement, the asphalt paving. I don't know if you want to address the comments that you've
heard tonight as far as whether it can be done in two weeks. And I think this is the first year hearing also that the removal of the asphalt is it's being suggested that's what has to be done. Maybe it doesn't have to be done. I I don't know. Would you like to speak to
that? Um >> I would. >> Hi, my name's Tim Spencer. We've met. >> I I put the sidewalk in uh to make it safe, flat, and smooth, which it is. Uh
there's a percentage of slope that's allowed. I exceeded by in spots maybe 1%. That's not much. I don't see a reason to take it out if it if they're holding me strictly to the ADA
compliance for 1%. That's that's hard. Uh I did it just to get it done for the time frame for the board. It is flat, smooth, and safe. uh the ADA bump step is not there. That's got to be
put back, but we didn't have time to do that at the time. But in my opinion, it's not far off. If you read the email and he tells you my the tolerances are off minutely as far as the slope goes, it's all going to get ripped out again.
So that's my biggest thing is that it it's real close. I mean, in spots it's within a quarter of an inch, half an inch of compliance. Should it be ripped out? I don't know. >> But we are going to go with what our building inspector does.
>> Oh, absolutely. No, I get I get it. But >> it's uh it's not it's not unsafe. Let's put it that way. And that was my whole plan to make it smooth and safe. That's all. >> Can you do it in two weeks? >> Oh, absolutely. Yeah, we could.
We just it's really safety concerns, you know, >> and I don't think this was the first time Nancy um I think on October 27th sent attached pictures and quick video of safety concerns on the delivery of
the materials for 17 Elm Street project. And there's some photos here. There appears to be no one leading the forklift or traffic controls. So, this was done and then Bennett uh had had made comment of it again, too. So, and we're going to stand by our building inspector. >> Mhm.
>> And and it sounds and what I wanted to hear was given what the uh building inspector has told us tonight, does Mr. Spencer think that this can be accomplished in two weeks? And he is saying yes.
>> Madam Chair, I hope everybody's right. I hope it all gets done by the 15th. I hope this becomes a non-issue because they're not back here for modification. I'm still concerned about our request to have the the contract, the GC or whoever it was here, the developer here. I'm not
going to really buy camerashy as a reason not to be here. Um, they've been here before. Um, and Mr. Bennett's comments could have been directed directly to the person instead of filtered through representation. Um, there is no extension being asked for.
So, I I think that the best we can for is that the good hopes of the >> of of Mr. Spencer are correct, who should again shouldn't be on the spot for the for that. Um are correct, and the building inspector is satisfied with
what happens and the and Stephen King is satisfied with what happens. The only thing that's left for us is if it goes past the 15th, this board has to decide what they're going to do about that. Um, until then, I think this is uh I think we're just um I appreciate the
clarity of information, but I think we're diving into places we don't need to be at this point. Our concern is public way. Is it going to be done by the 15th? Until that happens or doesn't happen, we're kind of >> Do we have a motion >> there? There's no motion. This isn't a request. They're not asking anything.
>> Well, um >> they came back for because we asked them to come back. This is >> What's the will of the board then? What do we >> we we we I don't know that the it says the board will hear detailed information requested uh to modify the granted application.
Mhm. >> Um, we've already had and I'm not going to believe the discussion about detailed information coming back to the clerk or not and the point about asking the GC to be here. But other than that, this this this is not there's no action to be
taken here. other than we heard the report and we've offered comments >> and on December 15th either happens or it doesn't and if it doesn't then I expect a building inspector or engineers will come back and say this is still
there and we'll have to decide as a board what we what action we'll take about the public way. I think Mr. Bennett's points are valid and concern should be raised and sent to the to the uh Wakefield Associates. um as a warning that they shouldn't do it again and
doing it again would be inappropriate. Um >> yeah, >> right now what we're doing is we're we're venting our I'm venting my frustration about not having the information and not having the GC here. >> That's all we can do. >> Safety concerns too. Tim, do you want to comment on anything else before we wrap
it up? Um, so the only comments I would have is that um, my office has fielded multiple complaints about the project and about the delivery of materials. The GC has been notified multiple times. Um, the only other comment that I would say in response to Mr. Spencer is that it's his
opinion that the sidewalk is safe. Um, with respect, we do not deal in opinions. We deal in the ranks. So these are federal regulations. Yes, they are strict. They give you a tolerance plus and plus and minus uh uh differential
there in the sidewalk is as Mr. King has measured it is over that differential. So this is not for us not a matter of safety. It's a matter of potential liability for the town. Um and Mr. King has made it clear that he will not be approving anything that is outside of
the ADA or the PROAG regulations for that reason. >> Okay. So let's hope that they get >> your comments. Your comments raised an issue which is you've received multiple complaints. You've you you've contacted and and told the developer >> through you madam chair to the clerk the
town manager whomever even you uh is there a mechanism for finding if for non-compliance is is there a penalty for non-compliance that we can start applying >> through the Massachusetts state building code? There is not which is where my
authority lies. When we get a complaint about a street being blocked or deliveries not being able to happen for the residents, we go to the contractor at this point as a way to address the situation. However, that I do not have a
strict authority under 780 CMR for any sort of fines or violations. Um, I I would imagine that it would go through this board. U, but it doesn't it wouldn't come through inspectional services staff. Madam Chair, can I the tom manager maybe is going to respond to my next question, which is is there any
question? >> That's um I'll do some research. My understanding is that if they do go past their date, you have the ability to find them. Um but we're not there yet. So I will have that at the December 16th meeting. We'll have that information for you. The team will have been out to inspect. Um so you have a meeting the
day after that. So not a time won't there won't be time to lapse if they're not in compliance. Can you I guess I was going to ask you, is there anything in our bylaws that provides a penalty for non-compliance for blocking a public way from the public use?
>> I did not find anything yet, but I'm learning our bylaws and sometimes they're not with the rest of it. So, I did look for you guys about the authority about the public way. I found that section, but there was no fines in that section, but as I've learned with the bylaws, they could be in another
area. So, I will keep looking and and I will send that out. So given that madam chair, >> yeah, >> absolutely. >> This item requires no action, but I am going to offer a uh motion >> that if the if the building inspector has not signed off because he's the he's
after the town engineer, the building inspector is the sign off on the scaffolding being removed and the public way being where we want it to be. If that is not done by the 15th, I would ask that the applicant return to us on the 16th, the night of the 16th, >> a meeting
>> and our meeting on the 16th, explain why it's not done what they believe to be the true date, and with that include either the GC or the developer to ask those direct questions. Um, so I would I would motion
to have them back if this if the uh if the engine if the town engineer has not signed off on this the public way being remediated the way we want it to be remediated. >> What about Madam Clerk? Do you have anything to say? I I do think we could um I mean we could
meet on the 16 we have an update and if at that point there are issues we want to have them back then we could because I mean we have to post the agenda couple days before that could happen between when we post the agenda and when we have
the meeting. So, if we start making an agenda item to be added at the last minute, that just complicates. >> I hear your concern. I understand what you're saying in that concern, but I can I ask the clerk, can we have an agenda item that then is struck within 24 hours? >> I I think I just need to clarify a
little bit. And Tim is going to help me, I think. >> Okay. Within the two weeks, what they're supposed to do is redo the sidewalk, have a covered scaffolding sidewalk tunnel around the corner of 17 Elm
Street. That structure will stay for the duration of the winter. >> Mhm. >> Not removed on >> No, no, no, no. >> So, that structure will remain, >> but the street will rem will be reopened. >> Would be open. However, the the question I would have for the for the notes would
be um sidewalk final all complete May June of 2026. What's the what's the date that the sidewalk would be completely open without that scaffolding and tunnel sidewalk? I think the board may want to
know what that date is. Not May, June, that's eight weeks. >> Okay. Can I suggest that might be two different things? One is we're looking for a hard date for the completion of the project. The May June is is too
vague. Give us a date. End of June, end of July, whatever you give us. But we need a target. >> We need a finality of when you believe this will be final. And build in the buffers you need to build in. Build in the weather issues you are concerned
about, whatever it might be. But we need a hard date, not May, June. Secondary to that is the issue about opening the public way, which is what they currently have a permit to close the public way in some manner. I'm not suggesting the scaffolding's down. I'm suggesting that
the public way is open. Again, the streets accessible, the parking is accessible, people can walk under the scaffolding for safety reasons. I encourage that. But we currently have a December 15th date that has a a a an end
result. If that end result is not recealized by December 15th, I I'd like to I don't want to wait till January to find out that they're now two weeks after the 15th date or whatever however time frame it is and we're not hearing
when it will be remediated. I'd like to hear on the 15th. If it's not done, if you don't meet your target date, when will you meet your target date? And and I and you'll be asking us to extend it again. >> Tim, >> I I I think what Mr. Trass is asking is
that the applicant be put on the next meeting for the 16th regardless >> and that could be struck if needed if Mr. King and myself are satisfied with the work that's being done, but it's too late to put them on on the 15th. >> You are correct in what I'm trying to
ask. You're more succinct than I was. >> That sounds right. Madam Clerk, >> we could certainly add an agenda item similar to the one that we have on tonight's agenda item, >> asking the developer um and whoever can answer any questions on the 16th and
then make a decision um at game time. and sec and a so I I made that motion and make the motion and that we do that put them on the agenda for an update on the 16th >> and with the understanding that if the work is done there's no update to give
other than the work is done >> do we need to take a vote for agenda items >> I mean we can just if we have to put >> okay then I'm asking for the consensus the board >> we can just put them on the agenda and then if the inspector says everything is
all that uh we'll just skip it during the meeting. >> Okay. I would also ask that within two weeks we get a written schedule that identifies an end date other than May
June time frame. I'm looking for a hard date. It's a target and I'd like a hard target. >> I can appreciate that Nancy. I am happy to provide that it was in my letter of October 16th. It does have a
hard deadline of completion of the sidewalk work which is the jurisdiction of this board which means at that time and the date that we have in my letter to you of October 16th was
May 15. That was the date. Okay, >> that was in that correspondence to you. So, you do have it in writing. >> Uh that is the completion of the work. That's the jurisdiction of this board. >> The report say the completion of the project. There's going to be I'm saying
the completion of the poured concrete sidewalk. >> You do have >> and so you're okay. Then if the statement is I'm sure the clerk will >> identify that as May 15th. >> If the date is May 15th, we'll go with May 15th. >> Perfect. Then I don't need the >> May 15 >> further clarity.
>> All right. So we have that. So we don't Did you withdraw your motion? We don't have a motion. >> It wasn't a motion. It was a request. >> There was no motion. Just request. >> Okay. So um if the building inspector and the town engineer are satisfied
with the sidewalk work and the scaffolding to pro protect protest pedestrians by the December 15th date, which is our date now. um then we do not come back to you on December 16th. If for some reason this
has taken longer, whatever we come back, you have requested strongly the attendance of the GC and the developer at that meeting. I will certainly pass that along as well. >> And and to be clear,
or GC or the developer, I I I want someone with the authority to answer questions about the project directly. with no with no I'm casting no espersions I'm a suspenser but he doesn't speak for the project he speaks for his role within the project
>> right okay um and that is it so that's that's where we're at >> great >> madam clerk you have all that >> thank you >> I have all of that back and watch the video
>> would uh if the clerk would you please um forward to me Mr. Bennett's email >> so that I can forward that to my client and to the uh the contractor to make sure that his issues are addressed. >> Thank you.
>> All right. Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, Tim. Thank you, Mr. Spencer. >> Where are we now? Okay, we are on The board will continue discussion of the recommendations of the town meeting
town manager act review committee. Um so tonight the select board will discuss the select board re versions of the town meeting act town manager act and the recall bylaw. Board members received these drafts over the last few weeks through email. The draft should reflect
the deliberations to the board to date. If approved tonight, these drafts will be posted on the website and will be the basis for the public hearing to be held on December 16th. That's going to be a busy night. After we hear from the public on December 16th, the board will decide if we are prepared to set the
warrant at that time or if we want to schedule a special meeting for December 30th for the sole purposes of creating the warrant and setting the date for the special town meeting in February. Um, finance committee language. Town council has recommended we have uniform
language related to the finance committee in both town meeting act and town manager act. It is section nine in the town manager act. Section 33 of the town manager act. This section is a little bit more comprehensive. Um board
members do you have a preference regarding the language or discussion? >> Madam chair if I may just to clarify. Um, so what you guys received were copies of um all the acts that should reflect your deliberations. Hopefully you all had time to review them. So what
we myself and town council are looking for tonight is a nod that yes, proceed as they are. Um, but I think the first thing to tackle to get to that is the finance committee language. It again the recommendation from town council is that they are the same. But uh, the decision
>> I'm sorry, did you say the recommendation is they are the same? That's not the same language. No, I know she would like that that her recommendation it came up during your deliberations that they were not the same. >> My right was a combination of what I have no preference to the language specifically
other than in the town manager act it's more detailed. There's a whole second paragraph. Yeah, >> I like the second paragraph >> but adding the second paragraph in words smithing whichever even if it's a con all I care about is the consistency. I
actually commented at the meetings that I didn't think it was necessary to be in both that it really is it's not a town manager function to have to discuss the finance committee. I thought it was appropriate in the town uh uh the the
other act the town uh meeting act. I don't know why there's redundancy, but if there's going to be redundancy, 100% word for word and I actually like the second paragraph in the town manager act um that should be in whatever the
outcome is, they need to be the same um wording. I trust that the town uh attorney will come up with the right wording. >> Okay. others there. >> Uh yeah, I mean I would I would be okay with it being the same in both acts.
>> Do you have a preference one way or the other? >> The town the the town manager one has more. So >> um we can add the missing information to the other one. >> Mike, >> I agree with what D said. I'm not trying
to cheese out. >> No, no, no. I do too. No, that's good. Okay, great. >> All right, so that was the finance committee language. Tom, any discussions on the drafts on the town meeting act? >> I I I did compare. So, are we on the Tom
meeting act? >> Yep. Um, I thought in section four, um, that we had discussed because I I went back to my original notes. >> Mhm. >> And I thought in section four we had
discussed striking the, um, the necessity for the town meeting to provide this information 30 days before. I thought that that was and and and again, it's not a it's not a hard and fast. I'm not even going to die on that hill. But I just thought we had struck
the fact that we don't need to >> we don't I didn't think it was necessary to tell the town clerk >> to send information or provide a school or whatever it is in a certain amount of time frame, but I'm not going to die on that hill. >> Um the other
>> governor, I'm sorry, Madam Chair. >> Yep. >> I don't Is that in the current section 4 or >> that is in the current section four? for the end of the current section 4 uh versus the pre I think the previous section 4 as well. The comments I made
were at the time that and I thought it was agreed upon that um >> section four is the school committee. >> Yeah. Nomination of candidates for town meeting members. Um
>> you're in the right one. So, if I may read it, madame chair, section four, to make sure we're on the same page, the document should look like this. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Yep. >> Page six. >> Goes into page seven, right? Starts on page six.
>> Nomination of candidates for town meeting members to be elected under this act shall be made by nomination papers. >> Yes. >> Yep. >> Yes. which bear no political de designation, shall be signed by not less than 10 voters of the precinct in which candidates resides and shall be filled
filed with the town clerk at least 10 days before the election, provided that any town meeting member may become a candidate for re-election by giving written notice thereof to the town clerk at least 30 days before the election. No nomination papers shall be valid in respect to any candidate whose written
acceptance is not thereon or attached there to when filed. >> Yep. the the provide the the the end of that where you said uh 10 at least 10 days before the election provided at any time maybe candidate for re-election by giving written notice that was a recommended strike
by the committee and I thought we have supported that >> the committee was striking um needing the committee added needing 10 signatures for reelection >> they did >> yep that's the part that you guys disagreed with the other then 30 days is
just notification that the re-election if you're running for re-election you just have to give notification to the clerk within 30 days before the election >> I believe that's the declaration the declaration sheet >> okay all right okay um then only one
other thing I I wanted to ask I compared the two um what is now page 10 on your what you've given us Um, we did talk about um
trying to find it here. Um, I'm just concerned for the soul. Oh, this is about calling the the section where it says after the expiration of 5 days shall quote with call special election for the sole purpose of presenting to the registered voters at
large the question or question uh so involved I thought do we want to put a date on that within 30 days for fourth width just seems to be vague it just seems open-ended
um But if people don't agree, that's fine. I may not have captured that. I may not have seen that in the first time, but I did in my second review. >> So, first paragraph, second sentence from the bottom. >> Yes. Start of the paragraph starts within
within said f seven days. And I understand that the I understand why we're not changing it to business days because later there's a declaration that days are not affected by holidays and weekends. But I'm f you
know I that's not a live or die one either. I just I'm concerned about it being too vague. It doesn't set when you should have that spe special meeting town meeting. Um there is and I think we discussed the fact that the town clerk
needs time to post it. We have to go through the appropriate select board me. We have to go through and with the public. We have to go to the fincom meetings with the public. We need to um you know do the publications and legal you know documentation that says within
so many days because if we have a select board meeting and a fine committee right there there's three days 48 hours notice and a day. 48 hours notice and a day. if we did it back to back. Um, and then the special town meeting. So, is fourth
width too broad a a statement? >> I'm I'm okay with it being broad. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I think we don't want to tie the B hand too much in that regard. Um,
>> okay. >> If it's within 30 days, fine. If it's 32 days, >> yeah, >> then other than the fact that we're all agreeing that We're going to have consistency in the language about FINCOM. >> Yes. >> I move we accept this as our warrant article.
>> This being the I have some other questions on the Tom Manager Act, but this being Tom Meeting Act. >> Town Meeting Act. You're moving >> I'm moving the Tom Meeting Act with the condition that there's consistency between the two documents. >> I I second. >> Okay. All in favor? I
>> I oppose. Okay, great. That was the town act. Y >> um >> let's go to the town manager act. Town manager act. I think this I think on page five, the bottom of page five, you
just have a cut and paste error. >> I looked at the original and it ends at the before the striketh through and the strikethrough is incomplete. I just think that's a cut and paste error. >> Page five, right? bottom of page five,
the very last strike through section. >> It's not part of that flow. >> And if we look at the town manager act section six, >> section six. Okay, I will check that. >> Good catch. Good. Good. >> I think that's an easy one to fix.
>> That was easy. Yep, that's good. >> Anything? >> Yeah. According to this, because then section seven starts the recall election. >> Oh, I see. Oz adds is authorized to fill by appointment period which this states is authorized to fill by appointment period. >> I just think that's cut and paste.
>> Okay. So something I got it. It's a clerical error. I got >> clerical error. That's all I'm suggesting but but we want to go >> catch it now. >> Yes, please. >> D do you have any revisions or draft questions which regard to the town manager act?
>> One other on page 14. >> 14. Okay. uh the bottom of section K in a timely manner. Again, this is who decides timely. >> That was member Bennett's request. >> He wanted that. Yeah, Dan. >> Okay.
>> Yeah. >> Don't recall the argument for it, but I'm just Okay. >> Did you want to keep that or >> I'm not going to again. Yeah. >> I don't want to get too nitpicky about it. I'm just concerned that >> what is a timely. Yeah. Right. So
>> with again with the same with the clerical fix and with the consistency of the fincom I move we accept the this town manager act as our warrant article is our selectman's warrant article. >> So you have a motion right? >> That's the motion. >> Yep. Anybody second?
>> Second. >> All in favor? I >> opposed. >> Okay. And then one more. >> Then we have now we have the recall bylaw. Okay. >> All right.
>> I didn't realize we were going to discuss a recall tonight, but Okay. >> Are you okay with that? >> Um I I just noticed that what we got was very stripped down from what the information that was in the in this document originally,
>> but I I didn't I didn't go over it with a fine tooth comb like I would have. >> Do you want to take a couple minutes and look at that, please? >> Yeah. This is one to three, four, five pages long. >> We can take a break. Want to take a >> No, no, no. You go ahead. If you want to discuss it,
>> while he's looking at it, um I just thought um >> section H. And sorry, I didn't I didn't email this to the town manager before. Mhm. >> Section H says a person who has been
recalled from an office or who has resigned while the proceeding is pending should not be appointed. Last time I was the one who thought not only should not be appointed but should not even be put
back as a candidate and I was reminded that you can't do that because that's a right >> freedom of like some anyone can be a candidate and then select board member T said well what if later we found out that I didn't do anything wrong then I
would have been penalized so I don't know if we need that section though so because if someone resign. So maybe we we strike out who has resigned from an office while recall proceedings are pending or we just take out HR all
together because you can initiate a recall petition against me. I don't want any headaches. I didn't do anything wrong but I don't want to deal with it. I resign and then later on I didn't do anything wrong and now I'm being
prevented from being appointed to anything else. So that could be a possibility. So we can just take out H and and I'm okay with the rest. Uh I think it may >> I think it does
>> some um petitions from other towns or some recall language. I meant >> it was it was based on the language from the um as suggested by the committee and I I think I reviewed it and I don't
think there's much change unless it was required and just looking at it briefly has all the same sections but you you should read it if you haven't I know train you seen it
I would actually be fine with striking H because >> not not there are many scenarios. >> Yeah. >> And I don't want to try to you can't solve every single scenario. However, an the appointing authority for a person
on a board commission is usually the the town manager or the select board. and we have the discretion to appoint that person or not. So prohibiting that takes away our ability to deliberate and say, "Oh, that
person was free and clear of these things. They're not whatever it is." >> We maintain the authority or the town manager and has the authority of of her appointments to make that decision. This person was free and clear and wrongly
accused or whatever. and I want to keep and they want to keep active in in the town in serving the town. I'd have no problem striking H uh if that were the case. >> Yeah, that was my thought process as well.
>> Mike, what do you think? >> Um I think you need something to say you were a bad boy, you know, coming back and this says it right. Um, I understand
if you're if you're not uh if you hadn't done anything, >> we still have that that should that's still the decision of this board. >> But but is there a middle ground here? And and the middle ground as I read this is a person who has been recalled from
an office or who has resigned from an office while proceedings were pending. What if we struck the or has been >> right or >> just keep if they've been recalled >> they shall not be appointed. should shall be may >> what I'm saying is a strike the wording
from a person who's been recalled from an office where it says the word or who was resigned from the office while the proceedings were pending shall not be appointed strike those words and say if you're recalled if you go through the process >> not be appointed >> and the town says we don't want you
>> yeah I think so >> yeah do it that way >> if they voluntarily quit from that >> and the proceeding stops Then we the appointing body can say there was still merit in even though you you dropped out of the process there was still merit in what people are charging
you with. >> We're not going to report you. >> I I'm okay with I'll be okay with that. >> You okay with that? I am too. >> So striking the wording with the beginning of the word or and ending with the word uh proceedings were pending. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> I got you have that. Okay. Good.
Excellent. >> And then do you take out the or resignation at the end? Uh yes, after the recall. Good job. Or thank you. Or resignation. Yes. >> Good catch. >> Excellent. >> Um okay. And I see I I I see that the word smithing has just reduced a lot of
this. Um >> if I may, Madam Chair, there is one portion I want to point out because it was a much discussion between the board and that was the removal of the language um that says that they can't be removed for
a vote. So it should be >> yeah you cover it in the for any reason >> um I'm uncomfortable with that still that if a person is elected to represent does their due diligence and still says
I vote this way that that person's vote should not be a reason for recall just because people don't like the way that person voted they voted their conscience they were elected to do that I'm still very I'm still concerned about that >> yeah we went with the the will of the
board that night was the other way so we took out the vote and put for any reason but that I just wanted to make sure if since you didn't have time to read it that people knew that that was a change that was included >> and again you still have time to you'll have your public hearing next week but >> to make your argument to the board but I
just want to make sure people or or have >> I mean I I lost that battle I lost that battle already I can I still saying it's a four to one at that point but I believe that if I'm elected to do a job and I do that job to the best of my ability, that's not the the fact that you don't like the way I
voted is not reason for recall. If that's the case, a lot of us would have been lost on the blue line flag. Some of us would have been lost on the uh issue the school committee had issues with the hockey public sentiment about how we handle things
by doing our duty. That should not be a reason for recall. and and I I mean I totally agree with that. Um ultimately it's going to be up to the voters and I mean if we say if we start saying vote
what what else can we say right? >> No I think the original language said uh the >> it can't be it can't happen for a vote. No, it it said it can't happen for performing your job as an elected official, which is to say, I'm doing
things legally. I'm we're sitting here. We're having votes. We're doing things legally, whether it's a vote or a policy or a uh zoning bylaw change or a warrant article. If you don't like the warrant article that we presented and it passes all the way through, that's not a reason
to recall me. Um I'm doing the job I was hired to do. Um, anything else? You don't like the fact that I don't wear a tie at the meeting. You don't like the fact that I whistle when I cross the street. Whatever it is, if you can convince enough people, fine. But I think that
doing my job should have that protection. >> Yeah. >> So, maybe it was a it wasn't 41, maybe it was 3 to2. No, I I I I still think when we start getting into the nitty
pity of what kind of reasons, it's hard to to it. It's hard because I could be doing my job by sitting at Rebel Cafe and meeting constituent and and talking to them and I could do something that
could be out of bound. I don't know. not necessarily illegal, but is still in the process of me doing my job. >> But I think the distinction I'm making is I'm not telling you what is a recallable offense. I'm not saying what
you can recall for. I'm just saying there's a this is a you can't recall for this one. I'm not saying it has to be a high crime. It has to be a you have to be a felon. You have to have embezzled. I'm not telling you. I'm not enumerating the wise. you can be. I'm saying for
doing your job, you shouldn't be. That that's the that's the that's the safety net. That's the safe zone. I should not be fearful of recall for doing the job I was elected to do. >> Madam Chair, if I can sorry, if I can read it just how it came out because I
want to make sure everyone's on the same page. So, um, looking at the draft recall bylaw as submitted by myself and town council, the sentence adjusted reads, "While it is expected that the recall process recommended herein would only be used to address serious
malfecence or misconduct, the voters themselves shall individually determine whether the grounds listed for recall are sufficient. A copy of the petition shall be entered in a record book to be kept in the office of town clerk." So the piece that was removed was um however that so they're removed however
that the vote of an elected official on a matter other than in connection with the conflict of interest violation shall not constitute grounds for recall. Y >> so only only that piece was removed. >> Yep. And that's what I'm I'm saying. The vote and here you have found it. It's in the original on page six. The vote of an
elected official on a matter other than in connection with a conflict of interest violation shall not constitute valid ground. If I vote the way I'm supposed to vote or I vote my conscience as an elected official,
that shouldn't be grounds for removing you because you don't like my vote. That's the only safety zone I was looking for. But I lost the battle before. I guess I'm going to lose it again. So, and it's
also the way you phrase it. It's also for any reason. It's in right in section A, too. It says for any reason. >> Yeah. >> So, you're right. The voters will decide, but public sentiment runs high at times and they want you out because they didn't like the way you voted on
whatever you voted on. And if it's if I I have to fear for individual votes to be actionable as a recall, I I just I think that's inappropriate. I haven't done anything wrong. I've done
something unpopular. That's the difference. What? >> What's the What do you want to do? >> So, I'll move that we approve the traffic recall election bylaw with the
modification on section H >> that we Right. Okay. >> So, you have a motion to direct the town measure to begin drafting the warrant. That's correct. >> With those ch with the >> with the changes. That's correct. >> We have a second.
>> Second. All in favor? >> I >> I'm going to abstain until I have an opportunity to make sure I mix and match these. >> Not that I'm not in favor, but it's going to go forward and that's great. But I'll have other opportunities in the public hearings. >> Yep. >> That's fine. Go. >> So,
>> okay. I think I have what I need. >> Right. >> Madam Chair, would you like me to give the public an update on the schedule? Yes, please. >> Okay. >> Okay. Okay. Sticking um we're sticking as closely to our time proposed timeline as we could. Great job, select board on
getting us through this. Um at the next select board meeting on December 16th will be the opportunity for the public to comment on the drafts. Um these all these drafts that the board just um recommended get moved to warrant articles will be posted on the website
for the public to have access. Um and the public hearing will be on the 16th. Um we encourage the public to attend and participate. So that will include the town meeting act, town manager act and the recall bylaw as proposed by the select board. Um, on that date, we
anticipate uh the select board also setting a date for the warrant to close and as well as setting the date for a special town meeting. Um, I'm hopeful and I'm waiting to hear back from the board that they will consider having a special select board meeting on December
30th >> to review the warrant and and set it and get that work done. Um, then your your portion will be done. it will move on to the finance committee which is tenatively scheduled for January 15th. Um and then to the special town meeting
which again you'll set the date on December 16th but we are looking at uh early January or February sorry >> February 9th. >> Uh the date the ten the Monday would be cons to be considered is February 9th. Yeah. >> Okay.
>> Again thank you the public and and yourselves have been timely on this and it's appreciated. >> Thank you. All right. Okay. Where am I now? Okay. Board will discuss handheld electronic vote tabulation system for town meeting. Um,
we were all given an attorney opinion letter. Um, the moderator is here if we have any questions. Hello Pat. Oh, hi. Nice to see you. Thank you. >> Um, do we have any questions with regards to
the um, electronic votabulation, the handheld electronic votabulation systems? >> Gna, >> I'd like to hear the opinions of the other board members before I I have some concerns and and thoughts and opinions, but I'd like to >> I'm sorry. I don't on you all night.
I've been kind of trying to make >> No, no, I appreciate that, but Mike, sometimes I don't need to be first. >> That's okay. Uh, all right. So, I'm uh I you know, I think the clickers are a good idea. I think uh accountability is um one of the
major points. Um the voter can count on his vote being registered. Um and the voter uh the town uh meeting member vote uh you know needs to stand behind the vote. Um this is all public
business and uh so the votes can be seen by all at some point. Um I think transparency is very important. The system should always be transparent at all levels and all instances to prove trust in the system. Um, from people who
have uh are experiencing these clickers, they say there is no delay in the meeting. Uh, they're not having any time delays at all. Um, I think that this evens the playing field. You know, no longer will a 6'3 man outshot a 5'3
female. All votes will be equal. There'll be no human error possible. So, your votes guaranteed. Um, we can't just go along with, you know, we've always done it this way. It's not good enough. You know, rotary phones are
gone to the, uh, the town spends hundreds of thousand dollars on dollars on technology. Um, I don't think it's a bud budget buster at all. Um, I don't Yeah, I don't think the cost is a problem. Um, because I think it's that
important. We, you know, right now the current voting is is a yelling. It's a it's a form of bullying to some. It's confrontational. It's intimidating um to some people. Uh ironically, we
hold it in the building where we denounce bullying. Uh which I think is kind of funny. I think the clickers will bring more people to town meeting. I think it's it's gonna bring more people to be interested in being a town meeting member. I think it's more professional.
I think it's more polished. Um I think it's a good thing. I think we should move forward. >> Excellent. Okay. Thank you and thanks to the town manager and the town council for providing us
some uh legal framework and guidance and reminding us what our authority is. It sounds like this is a process that would not only involve this board but the town moderator, town meeting and town
manager. So everybody has to work together um to to to get it passed or to to have it to be able to use it. Uh from my perspective, um I've been
thinking about this for a long time. Actually shoveled down some notes. Uh cuz I I have really listened carefully uh to residents on both sides of these issues. Um I've gotten a lot of emails, some for, some against, for different
reasons, and and I truly appreciate that. Um you know I I understand the concerns raised by the people that were against uh one of the biggest concern was cost
um preserving tradition um making sure that you know our town meeting runs the way it's always run and and I believe that whether uh this change
and some people even thinking like is this change even necessary like what problem are we trying to solve? Are we trying to create a problem and solving it? Um the the what I think is that these
concerns are really valid. Um but after considering all of this, I came to the conclusion that having electronic um voting will support good governance
and and the the and and I care for and and kind of modernize our voting system. Uh in my view, it will create greater accuracy and and reliability. Um it will improve efficiency like you
said uh select B mic at the beginning it might be slow uh because we probably have to get used to it. Uh I actually watched one meeting where they were
using it and they had been used it they had used it before but at the beginning of the meeting is similarly slow but then toward the meeting people kind of got used to it. Um I think it's also a preparation for the future. I mean, if you look at the budget, we've been
increasing our IT budget every year since I've been on this board, and this is a way to really capture the what what it has to offer. You know, that's that's what the future holds. So, so regardless of how anyone feels about this
particular issue, my my commitment will remain to find a way to move forward in a fair and um you know have it a little more consistent. I also understand that based on this
note from the town uh council, we want to decide what what is within the jurisdiction of this board is to amend the bylaw. And by the way, we're working on the town manager town meeting
act right now. So I think it's timely to address that as well because that decision will also be reflected somehow in this act. I I wasn't sure about that. >> No. >> Is that correct or >> I haven't asked town council that
question specifically if it needs to go into this act. I think it's a separate bylaw but I can find out. >> Okay. It'll be a separate one. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> That's what I thought. >> So um I I do think that what I'm in favor of it. I think we have to work
very closely with the town moderator and the town council to make sure that we define the boundaries as to what this will entail cuz there were some places where the moderator will could have
discussion into when to use it. If it's something just a benign vote, we can go without it. If it's something that the moderator feel we need a two3 she might call for an electronic use will it be for all votes so I think those are some
of the details that we can work on but I think that having electronic voting machine would be a good thing >> great thank you >> sure um
thank you because I I wanted to build off of some of the comments of the of the other members So first of all, the proposal before us has been brought before for us is a solution looking for a problem. To be blunt, this is a
reaction by a handful of people who think they lost a vote on the floor town meeting. And that's okay. Many valuable changes come as a result of people being upset. That's all right. But before we decide to spend taxpayer money, we should have a clear understanding of the
true costs. Not only in terms of dollars spent, but the implementation costs, the added costs at each town meeting in time and resources, and complete clarity on who and what decides the process of electronic voting, who has that authority, who h
sets the guard rails, you're talking about, the boundaries you're talking about. Tonight, we're not going to get that with our vote. I'm going to make a motion for a committee to look at this like many other towns and cities have. the city of the town of conquered, the town of Brewster. There are several that
I can Lexington has it right on their web page exactly what they went through, what the process was, what the committee decided and looked at. There are too many unanswered questions that can cause unintended consequence simply by saying, "Let's go and hire a clicker company."
So, I've heard in the past presentations and tonight again, many communities use it. Yes, many communities do use it successfully. However, out of the 351 cities and towns in Massachusetts, there
are only 32 towns that have a representative town meeting. Okay. Some number of those towns 18, 17, 18, whatever the number comes up to be. I I was in the middle of research to find out exactly as affirmed. But to
the presentation that was provided, the details that were provided that started this, they said 18 and I have no necessary reason not to agree. So let's say it's 18. That leaves others that don't. Primarily, it's used in an open meeting form of government for several very
important reasons and constraints that we don't have as a representative. Open town meeting has to ensure majority and has to confirm majority for each of the votes. We confirm majority at the beginning of the meeting. People are there. >> Bless you. >> And and they vote. It is also the case
that open town meeting is often multiple days with multiple different participants. So again, majority is an important part of that process and often in multiple rooms. If you have a very I don't want to say contentious, a large issue for the community, building a new
school, building a new police, whatever it is, whatever the large issue is, you're going to have a huge turnout that may not be accommodated in one room and is often split. So the electronic voting is a great way to solve that that issue for open town meeting. So I don't want to say I don't want to
walk into this discussion that so many communities use it when it's for very specific and different reasons than uh than uh Danverse. Um we've been we heard about a survey that was done and the survey responses that came out. Well I will say that I feel
that that survey was stilted and I'll explain why. Good intentions but the question was do you support electronic voting? Well, if I sat here and asked the public, do you support re re um revitalizing Sandy Beach? A lot of hands would go up. But if I said, would you
res would you support revitalizing Sandy Beach at a million dollars to the taxpayers? That's a different discussion. The survey question did not enumerate the cost. And the cost is not just dollars from the vendor who might service us.
Um, the cost also has to include the fact that there'll be an annual fee. Let's just talk about the hard costs, which is how much is it going to cost to purchase? How much is an annual fee? Let's talk about the the other costs that aren't registered here. The town
clerk estimates roughly, and this is not exact. Not I'm not telling you what the final number is, but there's going to have to be extra staff there, people to check in. So as I walk up a st meeting, someone's going to have to give me a click or check me in, register that, get
me down, you know, and check out at the end of the night. So that's added time for resources. It is going to have to participate in this. So those are additional costs. We have, and I disagree with Select Bean's assertion that this will speed
things up. The current process is the town uh moderator reads the warrant article. Finom gives their recommendation then 90% of the time it's all those in favor I all those
opposed whatever it is it's about 20 30 seconds you're going to have to allocate time for people to vote you can't just say click and be done and the reality is in FY2025
there were um let me get it right so I I have it properly there were 46 agenda items and 25 budget items. There was 67 votes taken that night. If you add a minute for each of those votes, you're
adding an hour to the town meeting plus the time for getting it early to register, get your clicker, get in and out. There is real time being spent. You're asking town meeting members who are volunteers to add at least two hours of time to every town meeting. That's a cost. That
should be a discussion point for a committee. What are the actual and real costs? There's discussion here tonight and there's discussion previously. The system is flawed. Well, the system is working perfectly well.
And the reason I say that is I went back and looked at 10 years worth of town meeting uh warrant articles. In 10 years, we had 10 annual town meetings. That's obvious. And six special town meetings. The total votes taken without regard to
amendments because that's not recorded were 717 votes. In 10 years with 717 votes, not once has a call for a standing vote reversed the decision of a voice vote or has the call
for a roll call reversed either of those. Often the standing vote is called because the town moderator herself is in question of the voice vote. She can't tell with clarity what it is and ask for a standing vote so she can be absolutely sure of what it is.
717 votes in 10 years. Not once has it been reversed. I do not see spending taxpayer money to add the time to add the cost that actually hasn't been enumerated. So I am
saying that um we should do what other communities do form a committee determine and get all those answers so that the town meeting members so that we as select board members can make informed
decisions not emotional decisions based on conjecture based on you know feelings and emotions. I want hard facts. What is the exact cost terms of dollars and time? What is it? What is and and where
is the process failing? The process to me isn't failing. Um, other communities have actually turned this down. Brewster in May of this year turned it down and said we don't want it for very for many reasons. I can give you send you the articles. But other
towns like Belmont, Rockport and Conquered have right online their committee and process. Damas is a community of tradition and precedent. We know that we're an old town community and our town seal has an etching of town meeting on it and says we're the purest of all citadels of all
dem democracies and in the last 10 years with more than 700 votes. There's not one example in Danverse. Yes, the the the the uh poll referenced another town that may have had an issue. Sure, other towns have issues all the time. That
doesn't reflect Danverse. In 700 votes in 10 years, not once has have we demonstrated that the voice vote is inaccurate. I understand the the communications about oh loud, someone beside me is loud or there's a volume issue. The town moderator sits in a
different position. If I'm in a lo in my precinct, I'm hearing the 20 or 30 people around me and yes, I have Bill Bates right near me. I hear him and I'm picking on Bill, but I know he can take it. the town moderator stands above all of that on a stage and can hear
everything and so I don't I don't expect that my experience in my precinct is reflective of the entire town meeting board um so town meeting room so I want to make sure before we change a system that is in fact not broken that before
we spend taxpayers dollars and elongate town meeting by hours each night for the volunteer citizens who do come who do stand for election that we create a committee to investigate the full purchase cost, annual maintenance cost, added resource
cost, training costs, and other tangible and intangible costs. The committee should also detail how and when the electronic voting will be used, the responsibilities and discretion of the moderator and the event uh and the extent to which
electronic votes modifies or replaces voice votes, standing votes or roll call votes. Are you going to say that the clicker is it? One shot deal. That's it. That's with absolute clarity. You don't get to call for a standing vote. You don't get to call for a recall, a roll call vote. All these details are
unknown. Just to what you said, the guardrails, what are the I want to hear what they are before we vote on spending taxpayer money. I so I'm recommending we have a committee to make those recommendations based on impartial investigation through vetting that
results in facts and full costs and not just push this through based on conjecture selective investigation and emotion. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Uh go ahead. >> So if I and
I mean it wasn't a motion for me. >> No no I did my due diligence and look into it. um deeply. It sounds to me that >> you are not opposed. It's just >> I'm not saying I'm opposed. I'm opposed to uninformed decisions. I don't have
the information, the complete information. I have information of costs from a source that wants this to happen >> and it's not complete costs. I want complete costs and I also want to know how this will be used in town meeting.
Not just a clicker saying let's get a clicker doesn't tell me that if someone disagrees do they get to say I want a roll call vote does it mean that every vote is recorded and every recorded vote is uh open to public uh for requests
public town meet public town meeting members serve as a body and town meeting members are responsible for their precinct and despite what anybody says about transparent clarity It is often misused that that that there
is doxing. There is uh there is issues that go on in the public media in in social media and others about castigating people for their votes. And I think this will actually turn off town meeting members, not support uh you
know, not bring them into the fold. Now, if I'm a pre if I I'm responsible for the entire town, every person in this town should be able to walk up to me and say, "How do you feel about this issue?" And I should be able to say, "I'm going to vote in this way." Once I've heard all the issues
and defend the vote I took because I'm representative of the entire town. If you're in a precinct, you're representative of your precinct. And any precinct member should be able to walk up to that town meeting member and say, "I feel this way. How are you going to vote?" Or, "How did you vote?" But opening this up to the world is only
going to open up uh coercion doxing. We see it happen now. And and I don't want to open that can of worms. So I and so and if that's the decision of the committee to open it, make a complete open great. But I can tell you the towns I've investigated many of them
use a system that just says it's a yes and no and that's it. And you don't you don't record who said yes and who said no. It's not open for that. I want a committee to tell us what they think is the right thing to do. And I can agree with the committee or not, but sitting here saying we should do this. We should
create a a uh bylaw that does this because as we heard from and people don't realize because they haven't seen the the document here. The bylaw is because electronic voting is a form of secret ballot.
That's that's just the law. The law says when you vote electronically, it's a secret ballot. You can't have secret ballot. So you have to write a bylaw to get around that >> does not constitute a secret bound. See where it says right? >> Yeah. It's open to the public
>> I think. Yeah. Every every town meeting vote is not secret voice vote or electronic. >> It cannot be secret >> pursuant to legal framework under GLA39 representative time meeting may not vote by secret ballot unless twothirds of the members agree.
>> That's right. This repo replies whether it is a vote taken by paper or by electronic device. That's why we have to write the bylaw. Keep >> I think keep reading. >> Okay. >> Yeah, keep reading it. Yeah. Next. >> Before I get to the point of writing a bylaw, before I get to a point of
spending a dollar of taxpayers money on a solution that is to a a a solution to a problem that has not been validated in Danverse. I want to know all of the all of the surrounding information. And I want an informed decision, not a
decision based on partial information. >> So can I just read? >> I just want a committee. That's all I'm asking for is a committee. >> Electronic clicker is I signed to a specific town meeting member. The voting system will generate voter specific records identifying how each voted. >> Okay. and the clerk. And it says that
the clerk and the moderator um are the ones that should develop jointly develop operational protocols, device distribution and collection procedures, premeating testing, security and chain of custody procedures, backup
like D said, we we have all this money in technology. Every year they ask more and more. I mean, not to interrupt, but I think it's a good idea. >> This isn't adding to this isn't adding or detracting to the IT budget because this is a a hired service. So, but nonetheless, exactly what it says is that I want to hear what the moderator
and the town clerk come up with for the process >> before I vote on this before I can accept it. >> The way I saw the the guidance, it seems like it was like a fourst step. If we were to want to do this, we have to
develop the bylaw first, >> right? So right we'd have to two by >> during that development we would need to decide some of the things you're saying and then after the development of the bylaw we'll have to secure funding >> right that process will still have to go
to town meeting. >> Yep. >> So we will develop a >> which I have no problem with. So if we're saying the same thing during the development of the bylaw. >> Yes, we will have >> if we are having a committee that's fine or do we have a committee and decide that we want to have a bylaw
>> that's is it a one step is a combined process or a two-step process. >> So we could do two-step or we could do combined. But if we want to develop a bylaw or see if we have we need one or not >> we will need input from the town moderator
>> town council. Yep. Because we will have to decide within that bylaw what kind of votes should be taken by electronic device. Just like you're saying >> we do everything. Do we do just certain ones? What and then because this one
says moderator has discretion to decide when the electronic voting can proceed. That could be part of the bylaw >> but and it should be because the time and I keep pointing the time motor. I'm sorry. I apologize. She's in front. She's here. But in other cities, in
other towns, the town moderator has the discretion to decide which votes are ones she's going to they're going to use clickers for or not. If it's a straight p like approving the uh town officers and the ale wives and the tree wardens
and those things, do you really want to go through that? But unless you detail in the bylaw which what the discretion and authority and flexibility the town moderator has. But aside from just that I also want to know the costs which also that aren't
covered under the bylaw. >> We can we can instruct the so what I was going to say governor is a motion to direct the town manager to write two bylaw amendments. One for the one for the clickers and one for the funding. It says if the board wishes to proceed, the next step is drafting proposed warrant
article for one bylaw amendment and two and number two for funding authorization. >> So I have no problem with going forward with the bylaw, but but neither of those give me the details of what the true costs are. I want the I want town meeting to decide this is something we
want or don't want. Public sentiment aside, I want town meeting members to make a decision. But they in order to make a decision we want this or we don't want this it has to be what's the funding source what is the cost what does it add to your process
time what does it add to town meeting what is the training going to be what is whatever it's going to be the full understanding of the breadth of this not just it it it's going to be $30,000 from this vendor one time and $5,000 annually. That's one cost. What's it
going to cost in added resources? What's it going to cost the town meeting members in time? There's added time here. Check in, check out each vote. We can't we can't provide that just by saying what's the funding source and just by saying what's the authority, the
moderator, which is important. I want the full picture. I'm just asking for this is not unprecedented. This is what other communities do. They do this committee, come up with it, and if the town meeting decides, yep, we're go four square go, then we have the amend, we
have the bylaws, and it's not going to happen this year. It's simply not going to happen by May because a we we're working on this year's budget and find we don't just have 10 20 $30,000 to apply it to make it eligible for the upcoming town meeting. It will be at
least a year from now. So take that time to do the due diligence that's required. Do a committee, get everything out there, have their mass town meeting, what they want to do, and then go forward. I'm not saying no. I'm saying I
want to make an informed decision. >> Do I have a motion? >> Well, I mean, my motion is we form a committee to vet out all of the details of electronic voting for for to make a uniform decision.
>> Is there a second? >> Who's going to be picking this uh committee? Uh I would assume it would be the same kind of process and and I would defer to the town manager to look at the other processes of who the makeup of the board was, who was a participant. Obviously the town med the town um
moderator would be a participant. Some amount of selectman, some amount of citizens, those are the ones I've seen in in other communities that I've looked at. At least Rockport and and Conquer did it that way. They defined what the mix was. Um and and I would defer to the
town manager to identify the construct of the committee not unlike we did for the town manager town meeting act. >> Should we ask the moderator if she want if we have any she has any comments for us? Your
>> would you like to go up and introduce yourself please? >> Thank you madam chair. Thank you so much for inviting me here um tonight. It's been a long time since I've come to a select board meeting. Um so I'm Pat Fraser, the town moderator, and I've
listened to um I've been aware of the discussion going on um and uh watched the discussion this evening. First and foremost, um as the moderator, I cannot take a position on whether or not we go to electronic voting. So that I want to
put that right out there. Secondly, if there is a committee formed, I should not be a member of that committee. Um, that just would not be appropriate. So, um, you know, I I think when you and and
I've spoken to other moderators who, uh, whose communities have are in the midst of discussing this or have discussed this. And the way these committees usually work is that it's sort of a a a
small working group appointed jointly by the select board and the moderator. Um, so you might want to consider that. Um I think you all have um um town council's
opinion as to um sort of what occurs. Um you know under section mass general laws chapter 15 the town moderator has control over the methods and means of voting has control over the process of the meeting the procedure of the meeting
etc. Um and so that that's sort of like in in a box, right? Um if it the decision is to go to electronic voting, that's something that of course it will will will ultimately make a success
working the moderator and town town uh the town clerk will make a success of it. We'll make it work if that's the way the community decides to go. I mean, that goes without saying. But some of the things that have to be considered here and I think touched upon a little
bit is you know what um you know under that that se that broad section 15 the moderator does have the power to decide okay on these five votes we're not going to use clickers but we'll use clickers whenever there's a twothirds vote or
we'll use clickers in these circumstances right um unless a bylaw would prohibit that. Right. So that's something that we we should probably discuss as you know a community how we
want to approach that. Right. Um secondly the the moderator. So the town meeting handbook that we all used for our town that was um authored by myself uh and Joe Collins and the assistant
town clerk at that time because the moderator controls that that sort of process of how that town meeting works. Right. So it it it it is sort of an interesting question that if we go to clickers can then is it then appropriate
I'm just sort of throwing these things out because as I read the opinion and I'm listening to the conversation for an example does that mean that we the town meeting no longer has the right to ask
for a roll call vote or um you know I think under Massachusetts general laws there can always, you know, it's pretty simple to challenge a moderator. You have seven people standing and that challenges that automatically forces a
standing vote. So I I if if that's part and parcel of the statute, do if you have clickers, can you force a standing vote? Right? Um because the vote won't be in doubt theoretically.
So, I mean, these are some of the things that from a just a town meeting process and procedure that I'm going to have to nail down before we start using these clickers should this go forward, you know. So, this isn't not
a snap the fingers and oh, let's go to um quickers and then we're going to jump to the next meeting and use clickers. This has to be a process by which um you know basically the rules of the road of our town meeting have to be adjusted to
reflect the reality of using clickers. Folks have to decide how much um how much discretion you're going to give the moderator and and whether or not we're going to use clickers and under what circumstances. Is there a preference?
Right? So, I mean, these are some of the things that that, you know, I I I honestly I I'm not in favor or opposed to using clickers. My concern more is how do we how do we sort of set the
process in place so that we have a successful town meeting? Um, if if that's the way we choose to go, that that's my more my major concern. So, I don't know if that's helpful or not, but
>> board members, any questions for Pat? >> No, I think I think she echoes the sentiment I have, which is we shouldn't be fire and then aim. We should we should know what we're the target is. We should know what we're aiming at. >> But so, with with with all due respect, I am not speaking in in in support of
any board member or any of comments. I'm just telling you how some of the things that I've been thinking of that we need to procedurally have in place before we use clickers at a town meeting. >> And so procedurally have in place is the
point I'm making as well is I want to know what we're voting on before we vote on it and spend taxpayer money. Will will that be part of the bylaw or would that be a different >> I I well that says the bylaw is to
hammer out those rules of the road. >> Exactly. So >> right that that is part of the bylaw. >> So that process will be part of the bylaw >> and that's one piece of the puzzle. The rules of the road is one piece of the puzzle. >> Okay. >> The funding source is another piece of the puzzle. >> But the true but also the knowledge of
the true costs >> has to be determined as well. And it says the town manager selects vendors and negotiates any contracts necessary to support electronic voting. Town meeting the town meeting's primary role is implementing electronic voting is to adopt bylaw authorization authorizing
its use and to appropriate the funds needed to purchase our rent for the voting equipment. So it's >> true that's that's that but but what I'm saying madam chair is that's a second part of the puzzle. >> One is what's the rules of the road for the for the town meeting? How does it affect the rules of the road for the
town meeting and the town moderator? What's the funding source for the hard dollars? My third leg of that stool, my third piece of the puzzle is what is the other tangible and intangible costs? What is the added resources we have to
do? What is the added time? What is the process of checking in people and checking them out and how long is that going to take? How long is it going to take based on the rules of the road for each the added time for each vote? If you say the rules of the road include Tom
uh town moderator discretion and anything that's twothirds, every two-thirds vote will add two minutes of process time. I want to understand before I vote on this and the town's people should understand or the town
meeting should understand all three of those portions. The bylaws address two of the three. And all I'm saying is while you're developing the bylaws, great, but we also need that third piece. And I'm just asking either for a committee or to wrap that into the process of developing the bylaws.
And I want people to understand I'm not you said you asked me and I'm being clear. I am not against this. I just don't want to make a uninformed decision that had could have unintended consequences. I think uh >> Mike
>> Yeah, I think uh I think it using the clickers just I understand we need to nail down when how that's all that's all good. We need to do that. Um of course you can't just go into it blindly. Um but I do
think it makes the process user friendly and I think it would uh it would uh may entice younger people to get involved. I think most people uh that go to the town meeting have the same color hair as me and so getting younger people
involved uh might be a good thing. >> They like the technology. >> Yeah, the technology is uh makes it >> and it makes it fair and accurate too >> the voting. So, >> and it's just a little bump. It's not a big step. >> Well, I'm in favor of it. But
>> so the motion is to have a committee. motion. I had the motion was to direct the town manager to write two um bylaw amendments. One for the clickers and one for the funding. That's what >> Okay, then I'm going to if that's the motion and did you have a seconded?
>> Do we have a second? So do one. >> Hold on. So >> if we I don't know if we even doing this right. I don't know if it has to be second before discussion. So >> it should be. >> It should be. >> I think we're just having a >> I'll second it for the sake of discussion.
So I'll second it for the sake of discussion but I am also going to offer an amendment. >> Yeah because my understanding of this uh guidance is during the development of the bylaw is it has to encompass all those things.
>> Maybe we ask the clerk. No >> right. Can we ask you? >> It has to no I agree that the bylaw is the rules of the road. That's one. Mhm. >> I agree. Identifying the financial source is another. >> Yes.
>> What is not required in those two is identifying all the other costs. Intangible costs and costs in time and process. >> But >> those aren't those aren't enshrined in those two documents. >> But that third leg will not be part of the bylaw, right?
>> No. But it'll be part of the decisionm if I'm if you're going to ask me to support >> electronic voting and I do I there I think that there is an opportunity for electronic voting and I'm going to go with the will of the town obviously but I want to make sure that the right guard
rails the right flexibility is understood and one of part of that is hey Tom meeting members you're voting to elongate your meeting period you just know that you're going to have time that you have to check in, check out, turn the stuff in, turn the
stuff out, and elongate those votes, that will happen. If that's okay by you, that's okay. If that if transparency and clarity is worth that extra time to you, but again, we're solving a problem. We're solving a non-existent problem.
This problem doesn't exist. The town moderator every single year has a town motor school. Here are your steps. She has it. It explains it every single town meeting. Here are your steps. Here's your, you know, way of uh if there's
anything in doubt, here's what you do, how you do it, when you do it. She's even walked citizens petition authors through the steps. Here is when you will want to make your request for standing town meeting, standing vote or or roll
call vote. The process works. Why are we trying to fix something that's not broken and there's been no demonstration in 10 years? I I can go back further, but in 10 years, 700 votes, not once have those
has the system been broken and someone said, "Oh, let's have a standing vote." And it reverses what the town moderator thought she heard. So, I just want to go and do those two. I'm fine with the two. I'll vote for the two, but I'm going to amend it and say there should also be a committee to
investigate and enumerate the other costs. So, uh, so the if if your motion is made to do those two and it's seconded, which I did for sake of of of of uh discussion,
>> I'm going to make an amendment. My amendment is a third a committee be formed to get those those intangible costs identified in both increased resources and increased time so that between the three
of those efforts we can make an informed decision. >> Can we put a date on it? >> Uh that would be I mean you're going to have to there's research, there's time. What would you would you say six months? Would you say a year? What would you say?
>> I would say three months >> with the upcoming. This is not a solution that will be in place for the next town meeting. I don't believe that we should compress the already tight constraints of the budget. >> All the hearings we're going to have on this year on the FY27 budget on the work
that the departments are doing and everybody else is doing to add another thing that will not come to fruition at the next town meeting. We will not have clickers at the next town meeting no matter what we do. So why compress that? I would suggest that we may have something a little bit longer than three months so that we can get through this
year's budget season and go forward. Give them give the town manager, the town moderator, the town accountant, the town whoever town legal council time to do their work. If you want to time put a time frame, fine, but I think three months is too tight a time frame. If I
if I may, Madam Chair, if you're asking for a request on a time frame, honestly, um three months, it just can't work based on the calendar that we're facing right now. But if you're if the uh it's the will of the board to have something before you in preparation for the annual
town meeting. Um the first two parts of that are obviously doable. Um but with a committee that get that changes I don't have as much control over but if you put a time limit on them that they have all that to you by the annual town meeting I think that a vote on this at the annual
town meeting is is doable which would give us till I mean you'll start prepping that warrant in what late April right >> so yeah >> four months >> let's do that
>> so the bylaws in preparation of the annual Tom meeting. >> I think we I mean I think if that's what the will >> and what about the other ancillary information, >> but it won't be included in this budget because this budget cycle is already going forward unless someone puts forward an amendment. We're already in the midst of budget,
>> right? >> And you can't allocate money really for something you don't have a bylaw about yet anyway. So >> we have to have a motion to do the bylaw. >> You want to get the bylaw put into motion and that I I think it's fair to say that that could be ready for annual town meeting.
We gota really pressure you on your year on your personal working you Joe. I'm not worried about that part. >> You're running out the door after me. >> No. No to me. >> I'm not worried about I just want to and also I mean I think it's thoughtful to to give it the the time that you guys
because it's a lot of I mean we just saw how many meetings it took to go through this. I don't think it'll take that but >> No, but but let me ask you for your time frame. You your time frame for closing the warrant is when? >> Yeah. Uh >> for which for a special town meeting
>> for this upcoming for our upcoming >> annual town meeting in May. >> In May. Yeah. >> Okay. Um when did you think that we're closing the warrant? I'm trying to I'm trying to find Oh, is
this Oh, is this go is the town manager act going in the special town meeting? >> February. Yeah. So, this won't be ready for >> Okay. So, if if we say >> I can do a lot that I cannot do, >> right? No, that's what I was thinking. If you're saying if if you're amendable to in preparation for bylaws
to be presented at the annual town meeting >> in May, >> I'm I'm I'm good. I'm fine with that. So my amendment is to do the work which includes getting the and I don't know that we actually need a committee to I the intangible cost can be derived
from town resources. >> Right. Kathy can estimate how many more people it will take she'll need at town meeting. Um, >> you know, you know, whatever it is and we can make estimates >> and based on the rules of the road, we can determine, okay, for everything that
falls within the rules of the road, it's going to add so much time. Great. I don't know that we necessarily need a committee, but I want that information in conjunction with I want it to be complete. >> And we should. >> Okay. >> And we should. >> So, so we are agreeing maybe just not the tool to do it. >> Yeah. And can I just recommend too, I
think the suggestion is obviously again you wouldn't send implementation work out to the moderator to kind of rewrite the handbook and go into the implementation phase until town meeting has voted. >> Right. That's right. Right. >> So same like so that's the order. First the bylaw then in the following year
there'd be budget. That's when you'd get it in the budget. They'd rewrite a a handbook. So but you want you don't want to do you don't want to go too far ahead of the vote. Right. >> Right. So, but have what you need to do an educated vote as well. >> So, the expectation is that we'll be able to vote
on the bylaw at the Daniel Town meeting, which will then mean it'll become part of the budget for FY28, not for FY27. So, we're we're a year down the road before we year and a half before we actually have the ability to
click if everybody's in 100% agreement. And I'm fine with all that. So I've I've made amendment to your motion to get that other information. It's been and the time >> I need a second to that amendment >> with a time frame that >> with the time frame you asked for
meeting we'll be ready for town meeting uh in May. >> Correct. >> Yep. >> Are you Yes. >> Are you seconding? >> I'm seconding that. >> Okay. Yes. >> Can I just clarify? Um I think you mentioned committee in your amendment. >> I'll take that back. So I just >> to include the information the the other
in cost >> cost. Yep. >> A complete a completed cost analysis in both real dollars and time however that happens. So we can take out the word committee.
But I and and I'm hearing Mike say he seconded my amendment. So now I think we vote on the amendment and if it passes that becomes the main motion and we vote on it again. >> All in favor? >> I >> I >> opposed. >> And so now >> may go back >> technically you have now that becomes
the main motion which is your two plus my amendment becomes the main motion and now we have to vote on that. >> Do we have a motion? >> All in f well who seconds it? >> You already have. >> No you it becomes the main motion now. Yeah. So you just take a vote.
>> Okay. So we'll take a vote. All in favor? >> I I >> opposed. >> Great. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Through you, Madam Chair. Is it um I will work with the clerk to make sure we understand exactly what we were just directed to do. >> Um and then I will send that to the
board um for you guys to kind of again just not not in one at a time can email me back and say this yes or no so I know whether or not it needs to come back here. And then once we're in agreement, we'll post um we'll get some public notification posted on exactly what it was. And it has >> it'll be in the minutes. So that should
be helpful. >> It's become apparent to me based on this board and the way we discuss things that we're going to have to up the paper budget for the Tom. I've got a pad right here. Why don't we put Bill Brad on that? >> I had to go to back sides. Now it's going to be very confusing.
>> Oh my god. >> It's white paper. >> It's not going to work. So it's all right. I'll make it work. Thank you. I lost my agenda. >> All right. So, that was good. That was good discussion. Thank you. >> Um Thank you. >> And then, um now we're going to go on to
the next. >> That's right. >> That's all I need to know. >> The board is requested to re uh the board is requested to renew liquor licenses for calendar year 2026 as presented. >> Um Kirk, do you have any comments, please?
>> I do. In your packet, you have a spreadsheet with um the liquor licenses that are available in town. Um a couple of comments on that listing sheet. Uh the Unity Unity victual to Saltwater
Grill is still in process at the ABCC. Therefore, I had to have both the Unity owner as well as the Saltwater Grill um sign the paperwork so that that um transfer could continue. The transfer
for Kelly's roast beef is also still in process with the ABCC. Uh that one is a little more um cumbersome at this point. There are two liquor licenses that are not being renewed this year. Uh the first one
obviously the hardcover restaurant closed and did not renew their license. That comes back to the town. The other liquor license that did not renew is uh the friendly toast did not renew their liquor license. I reached out to them several times. Uh they were well aware
that the deadline to return paperwork was the end of November. They did not return their paperwork. Therefore, their license is not to be renewed. Other than that, uh all of the liquor licenses have been returned and paperwork is in order.
>> Okay. Do I remember >> to you madam chair? So the the the person whose license is not renewed are they aware of it like how does that work? Do >> so license holders uh the ABCC and I make the license holders aware that
liquor licenses uh must be signed off returned to me in the month of November. Um, I reached out several times to the friendly toast, talked directly to um the store itself as well as uh corporate
individuals who told me they were aware of the requirement to return. Uh, and they did not >> without expressly saying we are not renewing. So, we don't know if they still want to do it or not.
>> They have not renewed their license. The requirement is that the paperwork has to be back by the end of November. Should they choose to change their mind, they would have to go through a new liquor license application process, >> which
yes, >> you can't have your mimosa with your French toast. >> That's what I care about the most. So, the information that I got from corporate was that they were under negotiation with their lease um at the mall.
That's where I'm at with that. So, they chose not to renew. Uh they would have to go through a new liquor license application if they chose to. So, at this point, um their liquor license is valid through the end of December. Um as of January 1, 2026, they would not have
a license to sell liquor. That doesn't mean they couldn't sell toast. >> Friendly toast. >> Toast them. Most not the same. >> You're just going to have to be sober when you need it. >> Okay. >> This has happened in the past though
where um a location did not get their paperwork in in time and um there are a lot of hoops that have to go through. Uh I'm not anticipating that to be the situation here. Um, I have not heard from them >> that they have changed their mind.
>> Okay. >> What's the will of the board? >> I was looking for the Is the hard cover omitted because they're already We know they're not Here's what here was wrong. I was going to I was going to say I I approve of I move we approve all these striking row 31, which is the friendly
toast and striking the hover cover, but I don't see hard cover here. >> Right. The hard cover is not on the list because they gave me a letter. Um, >> right. surrendering their license. Their license was already surrendered. Okay. >> At this point, the spreadsheet was created >> um before the end of November.
>> Okay. >> So, the friendly toast information was not available. So, um what you would want to do is it would be a motion um to approve as presented which would exclude the renewal for hard cover and friendly toast. >> Well, friendly toast is still on this list.
>> I presented that. All right. Not not this list as to presented. Okay. Great. Fine. Okay. >> I originally thought about J&J and I'm not going to hold them up. We're going to go ahead and give them the and then if we have always have the opportunity to rescend it later. >> You >> They need due process.
>> Right. They need due process. They have not come before. So I'm not going to make that. >> Exactly. Yes. >> Then I will move that we accept and renew liquor licenses as presented by the town clerk. >> Do I have a second? >> I'll second. >> All in favor? I >> opposed. Okay. Thank you. Thank you,
madam clerk. Town manager will report to the board on various items of interest. Mahel, please. Now, my my uh reports are getting longer as the meetings are getting longer. I apologize, but I'm trying to incorporate
things um that we've talked about in some of our meetings um and get some consistency. And with that, I'll start with street and sidewalk work. Um, beginning next week, Grenice and Sons, who's a general contractor for the town, will be on site to install new drainage
piping and structures in preparation for future curbing and sidewalk improvements. The work will occur in various areas on Maple Street between Hobart Street and Park Street and take place um Monday through Friday, 7:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. in the coming months.
The contractor will work closely with engineering division to complete the project in a timely manner. But due to the nature of this type of work, you may experience temporary inconveniences such as inability to use portions of the sidewalk, parking spaces, or traffic delays, uh noise, possible detours um
while the contractor completes a project and it will be affected could be affected by weather. Um we appreciate the public's cooperation during this disruption and more details will be on our website. Um, also in relation to snow, which we I hope it's not snowing
out there right now. Okay, thank you. As we enter the snow season, the need for parking bands may occur. Starting this past Monday, December 1st, if weather conditions warrant, the town can restrict on street parking from 1:00 a.m. to 6:00 a.m. Whenever a parking ban is instituted, the town of Danvers
notifies residents and businesses by phone, email, or cell phone text message based on your preferences specified in our community notification system. This is that Blackboard connect. You can, if you're not on it, this is the I tell the select board members, every conversation you have with a constituent, make sure
you bring this up. uh sign up on the website. Uh during normal operations, a townwide call will be made the evening before before 7 p.m. with notifications of the overnight parking ban. For major winter storms, a townwide call will be made no later than 6 hours before the
effective time whenever possible. Um there's more information about snow on our website. Um I wanted to update you on uh the Northshore Water Resilience Task Force. I have started attending these meetings. They were established with the
leadership of Senator Bruce Tar um as well as our delegation, Senator Lovely and Representative Karns. Um the task force is working collaboratively to improve long-term water supply resilience and ecosystem health across the region. The uh thus far leading up, it's been
going on since I want to say 2022, like two years, they've been mostly information gathering and studies, but they're into kind of the more active discussion. Um I think the word that they use they are moving toward exploring some actionable scenario packages. Um and so
I just wanted to put this out there to the select board and to the community that we are actively engaged in these conversations and I will keep you a breast of um how they are going. One more thing and then I think you have a question. Um they also have a
subcommittee working on um research and support related to PAS and they just updated those regulations again. So um it also gives us additional support there. So it's myself, Steve King and Sharon Clement from the DPW. >> What is the relationship with that group
and the IPS watershed association who is responsible for deciding how much flow we get? >> Uh they are they're a member of the they're a voting member of the board. There are 22 voting members of the board. Um include more than just the
Ipsswitch water basin. Uh we had a meet a voting meeting today. There's I believe 22 voting members. Um includes our surrounding towns that are part of the Ipsswitch waterershed as well as as far north as like North Andover, Andover, Burlington. Um because we're
all at when it comes to water all related. So um I will keep you breast of those as we move forward especially as they move into actionable items. Um, we am happy I'm pleased to announce that I think if you remember when I very
first started, Erica Biscanti from the DPW was here talking about um, resilient Danvers and mentioned that she had applied for a $25,000 grant from Mass D to launch the curbside food waste cart program, so composting. Um, she we
danvers did receive this grant. Um the funding will directly assist with the purchasing of the food carts u about a thousand of them for participating residents and any additional funding from this program comes from recycling dividends allocation. So stay tuned for more information as that program gets
launched. Um and then I feel like we always do a list of how many events. So I wanted to start with if you haven't seen the senior center list of events for December you should check it out. It is incredible. If I put them all on here we'd be here all night. I think it's three pages long. Um, but I do hope
everyone will join us at the Christmas tree lighting on Saturday, December 6th. The town and Falcon Fest are again partnering and the time honored tradition. Join us downtown for music, carolling, snacks, children's activities. It starts at 4 and Santa
will be lighting the tree at 5:45. Um, the Polar Hayride Express at Endicott Park on Sunday, December 7th from 9:00 a.m. to noon. Um, select board holiday party is at the Berry Tavern on
December 9th from 5:00 to 7:00. Um, I didn't see it on here, but there's also something for the candy. I'm looking at the the Mackenzie family, the candy cane, the flashlight candy cane search at Endicott Park, which I don't know what it is, but it sounds amazing. Um, and I think it's coming up Friday,
December 12th. Um, so all of that is on the Endicott Park page. And lastly, the Danvers Police Department invite you to the third annual Cookies with the Cops event on Thursday, December 11th. It's in the Danvers High School atrium
anytime between 4 and 6:00 p.m. Cookie decorating, Christmas cards, photos with Santa, and more. So, lots going on. Um, and the Monora lighting, I believe, is December 15th um downtown as well. So, please join us. There are lots of activities going on
this winter. >> Excellent. Thank you, Jill. Um, you all right? Okay. Um, the board will consider consent calendar items for 2025 and for
2026 as they appear below. Question board members, >> I move we accept the consent calendar as presented. >> Do I have a second? >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I opposed. correspondence, select board new business, previous new business
updates, and select board closing comments. D, do you want to start? >> Uh, sure. >> Thank you. >> Uh, I mentioned it before the at the beginning of the meeting when Chris was here. I attended the river committee uh on 1120th.
Great meeting. um lot of lot of volunteers really working behind the scene to to make sure our waterfront is uh stays great. Uh I also attended the DHS uh open house at Denver High School.
Um it was really amazing. uh the the programs that are coming up to that school. Um someone can graduate from Denver's high school with some college classes if they
want to. Uh they >> can I can I do >> you can you can um you don't even have to take AP classes to do that. And they have a lot of new AP programs. As a matter of fact, they do have programs at Denver High School now that none of the
school in the Northshore do have. Uh so they they they working very hard into um making our high school one of the top in the in the in the Northshore in the state for that matter um deca music
program like you name it. So, it was really nice to see the kids uh in action. And that night, it was incredible because every single teacher was in the building. And this went to like 8:30, 900 p.m. And that's really
out of their contract. Like, it's just it just shows the level of care that they do have. Are we perfect? Absolutely not. We can we still have uh improvements to make, but I was really impressed by what I saw. Uh I also
attended the HRC meeting on 11:20 and also a great meeting. Um there was a presentation by the food to food pantry uh at that meeting
and there also I was really moved by what the town does. Some things that I did not know. Uh obviously they've been there over 30 years. Uh
they started this year with 473 registered families and as of 1120th they had over 600 families that they helping over 1,400 1,400
individuals that that visited that center more than 300 seniors. I mean, there were just some incredible numbers of what um the the food to food pantry in Denver provides over 15,000 pounds of food per
week that they give out and they were very appreciative to all the volunteers. Uh some of the some of those volunteer were also companies like Stop and Shop. Those were single out churches in the area
and they even give like toiletry now. They give diapers. They And when they talk about homelessness, which is something that I'm ashamed that I didn't know was a problem in our town. And we always
think of homelessness of people who live on the street. And they said no, there are people in our town who go from store to a car, they sleep in the car, they go. So, it's just really something uh that we have to continue to pay
attention to and kudos to the food to food pantry for really helping us um care for our residents. And also they talk about the you mentioned the manoral lighting on the 15
and I would just say the people that are serving in this committee. Uh we we may I mean there may be they just really dedicated resident who care about our town and they just want
to find ways to make sure that homeless homeowner renters you name it feel like they belong. Anyone who wants to call the inverse home should feel that they have a place and it was really nice to see.
Thank you. Excellent. Thank you, Dad. >> Uh, as I said, my uh I hadn't gotten any correspondences as of a couple of days ago, but my email is on Fritz, so I don't know if I got anything more. Um, earlier the town manager reported on um snow and I just want to offer a
cautionary tale. None of you were on the board at the time. Uh Kathy will remember however Steve in his first winter here made a fatal mistake and suggested that in January when we were having a light winter in December and January that we're going to be ahead of
budget and he never lived it down. Don't ever prophesize that you're going to have a light winter. >> He never lived it down. So be optimistic, but keep that optimism. >> I'll keep it to myself. >> Yeah.
So other than that, um, and at the end, if you'd like me to do Dan's part about the veterans on behalf. >> Okay. Thank you, Mike. >> Um, yes, just a couple things. Um, I'm always amazed at the people that are part of the um, rail trail committee,
the endocott uh, committee, and the amount of money that you is raised is is crazy. I think you guys do an excellent job, and everybody that participates is awesome. Um, because those are those are great things about town. people that really enjoy it. Um, I got invited to
and I was able to attend a safety meeting at the Beverly airport and um, so our new seat, Todd Dinstart. Um, uh, we lucked out. He's, uh, very, very, uh, smart. He's a pilot. He he he ran a safety meeting, uh, that he put together
and I just thought he did a great job. So, that along with our, um, uh, committee will get going the uh, next year, this coming year. uh with our Danvas board that will support them. Um I think whatever can be tuned up that
makes it better for us and Damas will get there. Um with the airport, um I know it's a big concern for a lot of people. If Tony was here, he'd be yelling at me right now, but um I hear him now still, but uh I think that uh
whatever is possible, we'll be able to get done. Um so I feel feel positive about that. That's it. Thank you. Excellent. Um, I just want to say thank you for everybody that came. A little bit of a late night. Um, as you can see, the board is really trying for the
residents. Um, you know, we can't make a bunch of promises, but we do work hard for you. Um, we enjoy what we do. Um, we want transparency. Um, we want to the best for our town. As D said, Damas is a welcoming community for everybody. We
have a great town manager. She's doing a great job. We also have a great clerk. >> Well, thank you. >> She does. She keeps us in line. Um, makes copies for me when I lose my copies. Um, other than that, uh, Damas Cares is always available. I will say Damas High School, Dan Bower and his
team is doing an outstanding job. I did hear how they're working towards associate um, degrees um, some credits. It doesn't have to be those AP courses, Mike, but um, you know, they're doing a really good job. And uh thank you and
please come to our next meeting and >> and if you see a vet, thank >> y want to say one more. >> Well, no, I just forgot to say that the university lost their Thanksgiving football game to Glouester >> to Glouester. So I know we didn't want to say that.
>> I She thought she would escape that and and I saw someone who had a t-shirt with Danz versus Glster. >> I know. >> I bought bought one of those sweatshirts from the boosters for the rest of my career here. Congratulations to Gloucester and good. Yeah, it was a good game. It was a beautiful day.
>> Yeah, it was. Thank you very much. And Gardner, did you say >> I said that? Uh, sorry. On behalf of Dan, I'll I'll express if you see a vet. Thank >> y Thank you very much. Good night, Davis. >> Thank you. Sorry.