Okay, board members. Hello everybody. Welcome to November 17th um select board meeting. Uh Gardner, would you like to start us off with the pledge of allegiance, please? Assembly [clears throat] to the flag of the United States of
America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> Thank you, Gardner. All right. Um,
approve of the minutes of November 4th. >> I move we accept the minutes as presented. >> All in favor? Let me second. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I opposed. >> Opposed. >> Okay. The end's opposed. >> The reason is
>> um I found that the um minutes on the new public business were thin. It really didn't capture everything that was said by one individual. what was printed is correct, but I think
it was sanitized and I have a statement on closing statements about that. >> Okay. >> All right, Dan. All right. Um, at this time, we're going to do new public business. Uh, the clerk
does have her three minute timer. Anyone in the audience, please come up, introduce yourself, and speak right into the microphone. Gentlemen, [clears throat and cough] whichever one wants to go first. >> Tony Benton Court 15 Thorp Circle. Tell me remember member Precin 5. Okay.
Nothing really serious. It's just quick. I did ask for a selectman's workshop and I asked for a while back. I asked Mr. Bennett for a while back. I never got it. So I want to make sure that this doesn't go away. I need one. I know you folks are busy. I know you got a lot of stuff going up, but I want to make sure you put on a calendar that get someone
gets in touch with you, whatever, cuz I I need one. I have a lot of people that been complaining and stuff like that. This has been going down for too long. We have to about sit down and figure what's going on because this is ridiculous. Okay, if that's all right with me, you know what the the situation I'm talking about is the airport. We just can't keep kicking it down the
road. We we got to finally get down and figure out what we're going to do. Okay. So, I'd like to have a selectance workshop on this so we can understand what's going on and we can presentation. They came here and gave you a presentation. Okay. The residents never gave you a presentation. It's about time the residents give you a presentation of what's going on and what has to be done.
Thank you very much. >> Thank you, Tony. Bill, Bill Brad Street, town meeting member precinct one. If I may, on uh November [snorts] 13th,
two meetings were scheduled. All meetings, commissions or what have you are important. The two that night were uh [snorts] conservation and the finance committee. I went to the
conservation feeling that that would be less time and I would still be able to get to the uh finance committee meeting. However, when it was over, I came down
here. All three doors were locked. I couldn't get in to the meeting, which I was disappointed. And I did go home and watch it, but watching a meeting from home is different, at least to me, than being
get a better feel for what's going on. Again, I was disappointed and and I've asked about it before, scheduling two meetings the same night and in this case at the same time and not in the same place. Thank you.
>> Thank you, Bill. Anybody else? Please go up. Thank you. >> Good evening. I'm George Saludo and the subject is the restoration of Swampark. I wish to sincerely thank this select board for your endorsement of the
Swampark Restoration Project at your meeting of October 7th. Swamp Walk lies across the Damas Wenham border just south of where the rail trail crosses Route 97.
And I'm delighted to inform you of a companion endorsement by the Winnham Select Board at their meeting of November 3rd. The Winnham Select Board discussion was very present, very pleasant rather and
brief. >> [snorts] >> do especially to the testimony of three individuals. Governor Tras had previously forwarded a message of support to members of the Winnham Select Board,
similar to his personal appearance 15 years ago to deliver the news that the Damma Select Board and endorsed the original project. and Sally Ker who was in attendance
espousing [snorts] a more important project but she remained verbally to support our project and Kate Mallalerie who went land use director who has a role similar to the Danver's
land use director. She was extremely helpful by performing three tasks. She walked the entire walkway with me. She placed swamp walk on the select
board agenda and she attended the select board meeting to testify in favor of the campaign. On Tuesday, November 10th, I did a walkabout of the site with Emily Friend
Julie of the Hamilton News. This is truly a Danver's Wenham mutual community happening. 15 years ago, Swamp Walk was built by 200 volunteers
and $40,000 in donations. during a few weekends in the spring and the fall. No taxpayer funds were used. We have a similar plan for restoration. Our funding goal is only 15,000 this
time for materials, landscaping, and maintenance. Something unexpected has already happened. Actually, it's not unexpected. I've already received a check for $500
made out to swampwalk by a thoughtful Danver couple. They have addressed it to my home. Happily, Town Hall has already set up an account to receive donations. If you wish to write a check, simply
make it out to Swamp Walk and send it to Damas Town Hall. But even better, two social media websites have are ready for launch which will provide news and information on the project,
namely we are danvers.com. Thank you Mark Jones and danasrailtrail.org. Thank you Paul McNelte. The Damas Rail Trail website has added an online path to directly donate to the
restoration project. That's the best way to donate. Finally, a sign will be posted on the kiosk at the north entrance with all this information. May I hand the town manager
the $500 check? and a copy to the chair. >> Sure. Thank you. Thank you very much. >> You can pass that around if you want. [snorts]
>> Just be careful. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We'll give it to the clerk. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. We uh launched Thank you, George. >> Thank you, George. Thank you very much. Thank you.
>> Anybody else have new public business that would like to go up? Okay. All right. The board will meet the 2025 Citizens Academy, the graduates. >> Woohoo. Thank you for doing what you do. [applause] What you did. And
seats over there. Yeah. >> [snorts] >> Good evening everyone. My name is Jen Breaker. the assistant town manager and very excited to be here tonight to recognize our sixth graduating class from citizens academy. Uh I've prepared a brief slide deck to share some of the
highlights of this year's academy and the work the graduating cadetses have completed. Almost all of the cadetses are in this room and I see many family members of the cadetses too. And I also see some former cadetses in the room which is really exciting to have uh during graduation. Um
maybe citizens academy was developed as a way for residents to take a deep dive into their local government. The program is a 10-week upclose view of Danver's municipal government. Cadetses who we uh participants who we kindly refer to as cadetses explored various departments
through a variety of classes and interactive activities. We accepted applications in the late summer and in early September we accepted 20 cadetses into the program and 17 are graduating tonight. In this class we have new members of our
community, members of our community that have lived here for many, many years. We have parents attending with their kids which is the first parent kid. Um we have two parents and kid first time we've had that. We have family members of past graduates. Um, it's truly a
great bunch of cadetses. Starting on September 11th and going through just this past Thursday, November 13th, the academy was held on Thursday evenings from 6:00 to 8:30 in several locations around our community. Before we dive into what the cadetses
did each week, I must thank the many town of Danvers team members who made Citizens Academy possible. This includes the folks who presented, worked on the presentations and activities, helped set set up each week, ordered pizza, and made sure the academy was a huge success. Additionally, I would like to
thank Annne Freighus, who is key in helping me prepare for the program, Cheryl Stamford, who makes sure the pizza gets ordered every week, which is one of the most critical parts of the academy, [laughter] and Erica Viscanti, who helped keep the program running when I couldn't attend.
It's really a team effort. >> [cough and clears throat] >> On September 11th, the cadets joined staff right here in the tumi room for their first night of Citizens Academy. Welcome bags awaited them on their chairs. Inside the bags were their binders, which contained the slide decks
for each week and supporting materials, a budget book, an annual town report, recycling and trash information, and so much more. Cadetses were welcomed by select board chair Bernard and then heard a general town government overview by the town manager. They also heard about the work of the finance committee.
Because the town moderator couldn't attend, the finance committee chair pitched in to cover the important work the moderator does and highlight a town meeting. And to close out the night, the cadetses learned all about elections from the town clerk's office. For the second week, the cadet stayed
here in the TUMI room to hear from the finance division, assessing, accounting, treasure, collector, and retirement. Discuss the work they do to support the finances of the [snorts] town. The team led the cadetses through a budget activity where cadets had to balance a budget, deciding and justifying where to
make cad cuts. Cadets were left with a better understanding and a primer for the weeks to come. We talked about Rodney and the budget almost every week. [laughter] The third week took the cadetses to the fire department headquarters where [snorts] they heard from Chief Barry and
Deputy Shaner on aspects of the fire [cough and clears throat] department, including services beyond firefighting. Cadets went on a tour and got to see extraction equipment and use. One cadet said, "It was the best class yet. I have a greater appreciation of what the firement does fire department does for
the citizens of Danvers." Another added, "It's clear that the department is a welloiled machine." Cadets also got to see the hydraulic rescue equipment in action. A cadet said, "It felt like we were on the sideline of a real accident watching the firefighters work."
And maybe I'm going to show you a 30 second video of that. [cough and clears throat] This is a really great video of the roof of this car being torn off that the cadets got to experience. Um, four firefighters demonstrated in the garage bay. They brought in the car, they tore
the doors off. Um they went through all the steps as if it was a real car accident that they had to um extract somebody from and in the background the cadets are gathered around with firefighters explaining the different steps that are going on. I would say this whole extraction took about under
10 minutes um to do and it's really quite impressive. If you're interested in seeing the video, it's on my phone. I'm happy to show you. [laughter] For week four, we headed over to Hobart Street to hear from the divisions of public works. We heard from forestry and grounds, buildings, equipment, engineering, streets, trash, recycling,
and water. Information was shared on how we service vehicles, snow and ice removal, trees and dampers and how they can interfere with sidewalks and how we maintain our municipal buildings. All while sitting in the Hobart Street garage surrounded by equipment and tools. One cadet told me they found it
very impressive to drive into the DPW yard and see all the equipment with plows and sanders on ready to go. We continued to move through Danvers in the fifth week of the program heading to Endeott Park to hear from inspectional services and planning. The building
commissioner chatted with us about rules and regulations, laws and zoning the office must follow. Planning was ready to get the cadets thinking. After discussing the work of the office and helping the cadets learn more about zoning, they let the cadets reszone Endeott Street. Cadets were provided
with a map of the area and post-it notes that were color-coded for different types of zoning and worked in teams to develop what they would want to see. Planning took the office back to the took the maps back to the office for inspiration. Cadets had the most questions for planning and inspectional services and I did tell planning and
inspectional services they're a rather quiet group. They don't ask too many questions. Uh and they they said I got that wrong. [laughter] They found the presentation to be extremely insightful and interesting. According to one cadet, during week six, Chief Levelville
welcomed the cadetses to the police department and took them on the tour of police and dispatch, followed by an overview of what the department does that included some statistics and community needs that the department addresses. Officers covered community services division and the work and
challenges the division encounters, including various programs they offer in the Damverse public schools. Cadets found the community outreach information very helpful and were impressed with the number of uplifting police activities the department focuses on. Class was interrupted when a stranger walked into
the room lost and looking for the main entrance. Later in class, when learning about eyewitness credibility, the cadets learned that that was not in fact a lost visitor. uh when they were asked to identify how tall he was, what color shirt he had, what color hair, and other
details about the visitor, a highlight of the police night. Cadets also got to enjoy seeing behind the scenes areas of the police department that you can only see through the academy. [laughter] No one was arrested this night.
We then moved over to the library to hear from recreation and library teams. Recreation covered topics from rail trail to fun club in the new therapeutic recreation position. Taking a page out of the TV show Shark Tank, cadets were broken into groups to develop and pitch
a new program. The group that won had great ideas for the community use of the waterfront from kayaking and paddle boarding to water safety for kiddos. It was a great idea. Other ideas included a gaming night for multi-agges and a program to match volunteers with community member needs. Cadetses had a
lot of great feedback on learning about the therapeutic recreation services the town now offers. All cadets comment commented on the great energy both the library and recreation teams brought to the night. Set up in the senior center. Cadets heard from the veteran service officer
on the programs the division oversees and resources available to Danver's veterans and their families. The senior center staff spoke about the programs and services they provide and had cadetses uh take a look at a not so great senior center newsletter before
looking at the Danver's pretty great senior center newsletter. To end the night, the cadets heard from public health. One cadet was impressed by the services offered by the senior center veterans and public health. [snorts] She said that she had no idea about the services available to the Danver seniors
and it was great to learn more. Everyone loved the energy the public health nurse brought dressed up in her Halloween costume. For week 10, the cadets headed to the muster room of the electric department to hear from electric business water treatment and IT. [clears throat] The IT
department covered the work they do to maintain our municipal technology. The electric division discussed our power portfolio, simplified the power grid, and discussed energy conservation. The business office highlighted the important work they do to support the residents, customers, and employees. The
water treatment department covered water quality and testing they do to provide great water to our residents. All cadetses are excited to schedule a tour of the water treatment plant. And some said they now better understand how water restrictions are put into place.
For the final week of the academy, the cadets headed over to Danver High School to learn about our public schools. They were greeted by Superintendent Dan Bower, and he provided an overview of the district. The cadets then heard from the curriculum directors who taught us how kiddos learn to read and sound out
words, something I'm still processing in my own head. It was a very intriguing presentation. It was a perfect way to close out the academy sessions. And that brings us tonight. The graduating cadets have worked hard. They've shown up every Thursday for 10
weeks, asked great questions, engaged in discussions and group work, and they've made us proud to serve them in the Danverse community. Before we recognize the graduating cadetses by calling them up to receive their certificate, I'd be happy to take any questions the board may have.
>> Questions? Ghana? >> No, I don't have any questions. Thank you. >> Mike, >> is there pizza tonight? [laughter] >> There might be some leftover pizza in one of the fridges somewhere, but >> no questions. Thank you, >> D. >> No questions. Thank you very much,
>> Dan. >> This is great. This is the sixth one. >> Sixth, >> and we still get fill filled up. We still feel >> fantastic. >> Thank you. >> I think it's wonderful. Thank you. And uh I can't believe it's it's over. It seems like it just started, right? >> It does seem like it just started. >> Unbelievable. Thank you everybody.
>> I I do have one question, Jill. Have you considered actually taping it for decat? Um a lot of people would love to go or don't have the ability to go on 10 weeks long. It might be beneficial to tape them. >> We have thought about taping it. There's something about the in-person discussion
that we feel really adds to the program. Um, it it's definitely a thought out there. We want to try to get people in the room as much as we can and around the different locations. Um, and we wouldn't be able to tape at some of the behind thescenes locations we go. So, it would it would take away a bit, but we're always looking for ways to improve
the program. >> Thank you. >> Excellent. Good. >> So, cadetses, we will read your names and when we do, please come up to the podium to get your certificate. Once all certificates are handed out, we would ask >> Joe, are you going to go down there? I'm going to go down there join us in the
lobby for a group photo. >> And we're going to have the town manager and the chair join us. >> Yeah. And I'm going to have the clerk read the names. >> Okay. Ready. Mary Agnu, [applause] [applause]
>> Gayla Bartlett. [applause] >> [laughter] >> No, >> thank you. You were wonderful. Thank you for your energy. [laughter] >> Elizabeth Bernazani.
>> Yay. [applause] >> Elizabeth Brennan. [applause] Karen Brown, [applause] Walter Kums, [applause] faces, >> Riley Dunovan,
>> [applause] >> Shannon Perry. [applause] Thank you, [snorts] Louisa Pumprey. [applause] [applause] Adrien Richie [applause] [laughter] [laughter] >> Crystal Spring.
[applause] Marian Swinarski, [applause] >> John Swin. Oski, [applause] >> Lisa Tras, [applause] [applause] Andy Vaughn Congratulations [applause] Jackson vaugh. [applause] And lastly, Jay Wasserman.
[applause] >> We'll do a quick photo of all the graduates. >> We'll take a two-minut break. >> Okay. Two minute break. Thank you for that. Um what a terrific uh job that um the cadets did and uh all the town employees that helped out.
Thank you. And thank you, Madam Clerk, for reading those names. The board will consider a request by the property owner, Pioneer Charter School, to approve and sign a drainage easement modification at 175 Water Street. Welcome. >> Thank you very much. My name is Nancy
McCann. I'm here on behalf of the Pioneer Charter School of Science. With me tonight is Hussein Car, the uh chief development officer for the school. We also have the project engineer as well as the project surveyor from Hancock Associates are here this evening as
well. Um the Pioneer Pioneer Charter School owns the property at 175 Water Street in Danvers as well as the abuing property at 67 Palaski Street in Peabodyy and permits have been issued through Danvers and Peabody for the
construction of a new charter school. Uh the school building itself will be located entirely in Peodyy. However, um in 1953, a drainage easement was granted to the town of Danvers. And as that drainage
easement was laid out, it really bicts this property. It goes right through the middle of it. And in order to facilitate um any reasonable use of this property, but certainly the proposed use of the property, uh it really requires the
relocation of that easement. and um the project engineer and project surveyors [snorts] from Hancock have been working with the town of Danvers with uh Mr. King is here this evening um to come up with a relocation of the easement that
is acceptable to the engineering department. Um and I have submitted to you a letter dated November 3rd. um with uh some plans attached to it showing uh the location of the the site itself with
the uh with the proposed school building on it. Um as well as the relocation of the easement. Uh the easement document was also provided as part of that. Um the case law associated with this was uh
was documented in in my letter. Um, and there really is a a the holder of the servant estate, which is the school, has the right to relocate an easement, um, provided that the purpose of the easement is not frustrated. And there's
a three-prong test, and that's outlined in the letter that I've provided to you. And this particular situation satisfies that that test quite easily. Um, prior to submitting uh this application to you, I did meet with Mr. King as well as
Mr. Z Kelly uh Brian Zak Kelly the director of planning um and uh they were both in support of uh of this uh relocation as shown on the plan. Um town council has also weighed in on the
process uh that we're seeking for the relocation. Um and again the relocation itself is entirely within um basically the middle of the site where the drainage easement enters the property and where the drainage easement
exits the property um remains the same. So it there's just a a really a change in um in the location of the easement within within the site itself. Um, again, I've got the project engineer and the project surveyor here if you should
have any questions. I did submit the relocation easement deed uh to you and um the charter school has executed that document and that was provided town clerk prior to this uh to this meeting.
You have done this a couple of times in the past and the easement deed uh follows the form that you used most recently for relocation of the easement. That's all I have for you. >> Clerk, is the paperwork in order? >> The paperwork is in order.
>> Okay. And we do have Stephen King here. Um Stephen, did you want to get up and say anything? Please introduce yourself. I'm sure everybody knows you, but >> uh good evening. Thank you, chairs. Uh Stephen King, town engineer for Department of Public Works town of
Danvers. Uh as Nancy previously spoke, uh we did have a few conversations, some meetings regarding the easement relocation. Uh for our for the purposes of Danvers, I want to make sure the relocation was still accessible for us to be able to make our repairs if necessary, make sure that the overall
drainage, easement, and still fact took its tributary area through the site um like it naturally does today. So uh for my part as far as technically sound that both those points were were made and um and actually completed by Hancock
Associates with the with the easement relocation and the uh necessary uh slopes that we need on the the drainage pipe. So both those work for us. Um we're still to maintain and and operate that easement like we do today. >> Excellent. Board members questions.
Ghana. >> No, the town engineer and the is all set with it. I'm fine. >> Okay, Dan, >> thank you. Yes. No, everything seems to be in order. They checked off all the boxes with the appropriate people. There's plenty of diagrams here. I had no questions after looking at
everything. So, that's fine. >> Mike? >> Nope. Was very documented. Well, thank you. >> D, >> just a quick clarifying question. Um, so we get all new pipes. They they going to move and >> correct. Yeah. In order to facilitate
the drainage, they're going to have to install new drainage pipe within the new easement area. >> Okay. And does does that come with any warranty or it's just upon inspection? We >> upon Yeah. So, we're as part of they have a storm water management permit with us. So, we're going to have to
inspect the pipe and make sure that it's actually installed per our regulations. >> Okay. >> And typically, there's a constructibility one-year warranty review on any one-year warranty on any pipe associations that they do work for the town. Okay. Thank you. >> Excellent. Okay. Uh board members, do I
have a motion um to approve um Pioneer Charter School to approve the sign drainage easement modification at 175 Water Street? >> Sounds like you just made the motion. >> I should have. >> That's fine. >> Do I have a second? >> Second. >> Okay. All in favor?
>> I >> I >> opposed. Okay. Thank you. Thank you very much. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you, >> Madam Chairman. Would you consider taking number six out of order unless Mr. King wants to stay for classification? >> Um,
sure. That would be fine. >> So, so women take six. So, which one do you want to move? >> We'll put Rodney next. >> Rod, he's staying. So, it doesn't matter then. That's what I was asking. >> All right. >> Sorry, I was going to let you go home really early. >> Yeah, Stephen. Yeah, thank you. >> But Stephen can leave. [laughter]
Rodney, I was like, "Uh, Mr. Mr. Connley is staying." >> Well, I thought so, but I just wanted to check. >> Yeah, Rodney's got a lot of questions, right? Okay. So, we're going to move on to the board. We'll consider I mean, I'm sorry. The board will conduct the annual tax classification hearing. And who do
who is here for our wonderful presentation? >> Got to spread everything out now here on my computer. >> [cough] >> Introduce [clears throat] yourself, please. >> Good evening. This is uh my name is John Leel. I'm the chief assessor for the
town of Danvers. All right. Uh the reason I'm here tonight is to uh help you all with the annual classification hearing. Uh and the purpose of this is for the uh select board to determine the allocation of local property tax to be born by the
four class classes of real estate plus personal property for fiscal year 2026. Uh in deciding the allocation, the board must adopt a residential factor which is used to determine the percentage of the tax levy applied by the five classes of property. And this is all done under
Mass General Law, Chapter 40, section 56. Um in doing so, uh the board has a uh four actions that they have to take. Uh the first is the the board has to uh select uh whether or not to um
uh sorry in addition to selecting the uh the factor um there's three other options. uh whether or not to uh offer a shift within the uh residential class between residential and open space and among commercial properties. And we can
we'll talk about those a little later. Uh so in summary, uh there's four duties tonight. uh selecting a minimum residential factor, whether or not to select an open space discount, if you want to grant a residential exemption, and if you want to grant a small
commercial exemption. And throughout this process, if you have any questions, just stop me and I'll I'll answer as best I can. So, I'm going to show you some data here. Now, this data is all based on our
um valuation date of January 1st, 2025. So, it's all based on calendar year 2024 data. Uh the first slide just kind of shows the breakup of the um of the values throughout the town. Uh with residential again being the most at just
over 79%. Uh commercial just over 15%, industrial at four, and personal property just under two. We do not have anything that the town classifies as open space. Uh anything you would think of of open space usually falls under our chapter land status which um actually
falls under the residential and commercial space um classes depending on on the actual use. Um this slide here just kind of further breaks down the history of of the uh distribution of the values. um you're
slightly gaining more residential year after year. Um over the last 3 years, it's been about a 1% change from the CIP class to residential class. Um this slide here just kind of shows the valuation changes for FY26.
Overall, residential values are up about 6 and a.5%. Uh commercial just over five, industrial just under five. Um personal property remained kind of flat throughout the year. And this slide here kind of further
breaks down the residential class. Um apartment buildings over four units uh saw the biggest jump in valuation mainly because of a big building down the street uh which contributed to that value. Uh, three families are up just
under 7%, two families just over 7%, um, condos about five and a half% and single families just over 5% in the increase in the in the average value. Uh, this slide here just kind of compares this year's levy to last year's
levy. uh showing the the growth um overall the the increase in the in the to in the actual levy for this year is 3.4%. uh kind of shows the the breakdown here. >> The uh excess levy capacity, how much of
that is attributable to uh the Maple Square project? >> A rough idea. >> None none of the excess levy. This is how much of the uh >> I'm sorry, not excess levy. How much how much capac how much of the valuation
increase? What how much is Maple Square bringing in tax-wise? >> Tax wise, I'll I'll get to that in the growth. I'll I'll tell you that number. >> Thank you. >> Valuewise, just [clears throat] before I get there, the value for this
year, it's not at 100% complete. It's still as of January 1, it wasn't fully occupied. So, we're not up to the 100% valuation on the property yet, but >> okay, >> I will go over that. >> Thank you. [snorts] >> I'll go over it right now.
Uh so this chart kind of shows the history of our new growth. Um this year the total growth in tax dollars is uh just over $854,000. Um of that 19% was Maple Square.
And just to put that kind of in perspective, the next highest project bringing in growth was 8%. And and what project was that? >> Uh that was the renovation of the Honda North facility. >> Okay.
>> Can I ask a question about new growth? >> Sure. >> Um on the chat there back on page nine, last year's new growth was 761 plus and this year it says 54,000. >> Which slide? On on number nine. >> Page nine.
>> Yep. >> New growth. Yeah. >> Last year was >> 761879, >> right? And if I'm looking at this year, it says 54,000. >> No, it should say 854. >> 54. >> Oh, it's an eight. I'm sorry. >> Yeah. >> Thought there was a dollar sign.
>> No, >> thank you. >> I wouldn't be here if it was only 54. >> So, [clears throat] that leads me to my next question. Okay. >> Um, maybe you don't know, but what's the prognosis for new building permits the next two years out? >> I don't know the new building province.
Um but again, next year you'll see a good chunk of growth from Maple Square because it should be go into next year's. >> Yeah, it will go into next year. Uh you'll have the hotel which should be a good number and then you'll have depending on how many buildings they get done this year.
You'll you'll have some of the um McGovern Auto on Route 114, >> but those are already building permits issued. >> That will be growth for next year though. >> That would be growth. So my question really is >> what does it look like for new building permits not issued going out the next
couple of years? >> That I don't know. I I don't know of any other major projects. Um >> probably that' be a question for the budget hearing. >> Question [clears throat] for planning or you know they know more about what's in the pipeline than I do. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> I'm sorry. Back to another question. You said of the $854,000 19% was Maple Square. Given the occupancy of Maple Square on January, what was the split? What do you think it was last year and next year it'll be 100%. >> Now, how much how much did you charge
against that this year? >> I can tell you that the value will go up another that the value right now. >> Yep. >> Um I think we have it around 36 million. >> Mhm. >> And it should go up I'm not going to I'll give you a broad number because um
another 20 to 30 million. So 65 million roughly >> it should be in the >> plus or minus. Okay. >> And that's then against the resident against the commercial rate. Thank you. >> No, it's actually that building is 94%
residential. So >> residential. Thank you. >> So in 6% commercial. >> 6% commercial. >> It's a mixeduse building. >> Right. That's right. And when you say residential, is it condos or apartments? I can't remember. They're >> apartments. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.
All right. Um so selecting the the minimum residential factor uh a factor of one would be no split tax rates just a single tax rate across um all classes of property. Um but Mass General law
allows the select board to select a factor of less than one which shifts some of the burden from residential onto commercial, industrial and personal property. So this is this slide here kind of shows how we come up to that
um what we call the the uniform tax rate which is if there was a single tax rate. Um the item on the left left left is called our LA4 which is a breakdown of of the values of each type of property and then the item on the right is from a
couple slides ago our actual levy. So what we do is we divide the levy by the total value in town and we come up with uh a tax rate of $12.31 before any shift is applied. Um this slide here is just uh some
historic data on the average single family tax bill in town. Um I mean sorry the average value not the tax bill the average value which uh this year for single family the average value is up a little over 5%.
just a um recordkeeping or or or a a presentation request. >> Yeah. >> Next year, the table on page 13 >> Y >> goes from the oldest to the newest if you go back one page. >> Yep. >> And on the next page on page 15, it goes
from newest to the oldest. So, I'm trying to do comparisons and it's >> okay. and I'm cutting and pasting and throwing it in Excel and I got to rework it. >> Okay, I can do that. >> Thanks. >> Uh, this slide here just kind of shows a comparison of Danvers to some of the surrounding communities [snorts]
um surrounding communities and other communities of of similar size of where you belt in last year with as far as the number of parcels and the average tax bill. And this slide here shows the the historic shifts. Um
so historically if if [snorts] you go back to the beginning you know the residential percentage has been the last few years 68 I mean 78 to 79% of the overall value and over the last few years the the board has kind of flipped
roughly 9 10% over to the commercial if you look at it this way >> and if I might you may get to this >> but in 2024 you said the max shift was 1.75 allowed and then again this year why is why are those two years allowed
to go to 1.75 and if you if you want to defer the answer that's great >> no I I can I can tell you right now um it's not in the slide presentation um but if you take out the the actual report that I gave you and you go to page eight I I can explain the math to you
>> great and hopefully it makes sense If there's a if there's a reason for it, that's fine. I I just I noticed the anomaly and I just want to make sure. >> And it's it's based on >> Explain it. Yeah. Explain it. >> All right. So, last year after the
shift, residents paid 68.48% of the of the of the levy. Okay. So this year we're at 79.1% before we do anything. >> Okay. So that means commercial makes up
20.9%. >> Based on the current values, right? So we take that 20.9 and we multiply it by 1.5 which was the original law is you can ship 50% onto commercial. That gives us a number of 31.4169.
We subtract that from 100 and we get the number two numbers down 68.58. Okay. So it's saying because if we go only go to 1.5, you can't get to where you were last year. So now you can go beyond 1.5 and you can go all the way up
to 1.75. >> However, the numbers changed again next year. >> The name has changed every year. So >> So this may drop back to 1.5 and we'll already be over 1.5 potentially. potentially say there's a another 2008
crash of the residential market and now residents only make up 60%, you're probably going to go back to 1.5. >> It it's all based on where where you shifted to and where the town is the next year. It's a variable. >> Okay, that's going to be important point for my for my discussion later.
>> Two years ago, they didn't go beyond it and then this year just based on the math now we can go back. >> Okay, it's allowed. >> It's allowed. >> It's allowed. My concern is that if we were to go above 1.5, obviously to the benefit of the of the
residents, uh to the I'm going to say detriment, that's my word, of the business. If that dynamic were to shift, we're going to have to shift more back to the residential if we drop below one 1.5 or below.
>> Not necessarily. Again, if there's a big crash, >> right, >> then the numbers would change. >> But assuming things keep on going steady, then yes, >> great. Thank you. >> Okay. Uh so the the next slide is again just another kind of comparison with other
towns th those same towns what they've what they shifted to last year and what percentage of their uh commercial industrial makes up of their overall value >> and I don't know if you want to do the selected that the minimum residential
now I can go over this or if you want to come back to this one and do the other three first. It's up to the board. >> Madame Chairman, I think uh the big gorilla in the room is the residential factor. If we can address that, the others be easier to take care of.
>> We'll come back to this one then. >> U so the first one is an open space discount, which again we don't have any open space. So whether or not you adopt it or not, it's really not going to impact anything. John, can I ask a question? >> Sure.
>> On the open space, we're not taxing that anyway, right? >> We don't have anything that's classified as open space per the state guideline. >> Okay. >> They they have a specific category of land. Um Bedford used to be the only town that I knew of that had any and I
don't think they have any anymore. I'm not sure on that. Um but this classification was really before the chapter land came into existence where you could put farmland and ag you know agricultural land and recreational land into chapter status and get a reduction
on your taxes. So the things you think of as open space is either owned by the town or it's in chapter land getting a reduced rate based on its agricultural status.
>> Okay. Thank you. >> [snorts] >> So, so no, someone would need to make a motion to >> Does anybody want to make a motion to >> Oh, so we're voting on number four first and then going back to number one. >> Yeah, we're going back to number one. Let's do that. >> That's going to have the most
discussion. Thank you. Well, I motion that we do not adopt an open space discount. >> Second the motion. >> All in favor? >> I >> opposed. >> Thank you. >> All right. >> Uh the next one is a residential
exemption. So this is basically a shift within the residential class. Um, so basically what would happen there's you can do up to I think 20%. It it basically reduces everyone's value by a certain number depending on which
number you pick and then we recalculate the tax rate and it's it shifts the burden from lower valued homes to higher valued homes. [snorts] Okay. Does anybody want to make a motion? >> I I move we do not grant the residential exemption.
>> To not grant Is that what you're making it? To not grant a residential exemption. >> That's my motion. >> Okay. Second. >> Second. >> All in favor? >> I >> I >> opposed. >> Thank you, John. >> Yep. >> And then we have the the small
commercial exemption. Um this is an exemption up to 10% of the property value for commercial property only. Um, and the value of that property can't can exceed $1 million and they have to have uh 10 or fewer uh
employees. [snorts] And if one business if if this is a property, a building that is under a million, but it has multiple businesses, all the businesses in the building would have to qualify for the building to qualify.
and that it goes to the building owner, not necessarily the businesses that run out of that business. >> I make a motion not to grant the small commercial exemption. >> Second question.
>> Second discussion. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So, what did we last year? We did not grant this. Is that correct? >> Correct. >> Never have. >> Yeah. The town never has. And you said the the discount goes to the owner of
the building, not to the business. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Can can I ask you a question? >> Sure. >> Um, is it and it has to do with the the value of the building itself. Is that what >> Yeah, it's the value of the building and
the number of employees are the criteria if you can qualify for this or not. Okay. So, but the business itself, aside from the number of employees, doesn't pay, >> this is for the real estate tax, not for the personal property tax associated with it.
>> All right. Thank you. >> That's why it goes to the property owner, right? Not necessarily the business, the lei that's in the business. >> Yes. Okay. >> Any other questions? Garner, did you Oh, >> okay. The end. >> I made the motion. >> Yeah. Okay. Motion's on table. Um, we have a second.
>> I did. Okay. >> All in favor? >> I >> I opposed. Thank you. >> All right. Now, I'll go back to the big one. >> So, madam chairman, if I may. >> Yes, you may. >> Um, we've gone through this. >> Um, there's a lot of different numbers
here. >> Um, need a magnifying glass >> 10 times at the Hubble telescope might help. Um when I started looking at this I was in that 150 151 range. Um
trying to not go too high towards the 175. Although last year I add advocated for um a rate as close to the 150 to help the residents with their tax bills.
We've decided on a different rate which is fine. [snorts] But this year looking at the increase across the board including multifamilies and commercial industrial. It's it's tough to have a balance
because if we stay down in [snorts] the 150ish range, multifamilies are going to have a 5% increase. commercial will have a higher rate and
trying to be um conscious of two families, three families which have gone up, I think he said six and 7% equally. Um the last couple of years multifamilies have been getting a higher
percentage increase in their values, therefore a higher tax increase. So this year I'm looking at something along 15140 which would give the single family a 2%
2.01% increase condominiums 2.17. Um historically last couple of years condominiums condominiums have had a high percentage increase. So this will give them a little more equity.
two families 4.76 it keeps it under the 5% and commercial 4.60 keeps them under 5%. I from my mind I think that's equitable um and it helps keep the residential
increase reasonable something that's reasonable to absorb. uh garden is afraid if we go too much over the 150 then what happens next year. Um he's right but historically we've only gone been able to go to 175 twice. We've only
met the parameters twice in the last so many years. >> I'm sorry. Did you Dan are you suggesting 1.510? >> Yeah 15140 >> 140. Okay. Thank you. >> Yeah 140. I mean, they're all so similar
when you're looking in those ranges, but I figured I didn't think going below 2% for the single family is fair to everybody else either. It's really it's equitable. Um, we, as John said, we've changed that percentage by 10% from
residential to uh commercial over the last number of years. trying to say equitable. That's where I'm That's what I'm advocating for. >> Madam Chair, and I'm happy to have full discussion now or do you want a motion and so that we can have discussion?
>> Yeah, I'd like to have discussion. >> Do you want to make that motion? >> Well, I I think let's have discussion and see what the other members feel. Then we can settle in. Yeah, >> we want to have discuss. >> So to that point, I understand the point you're trying to make. My concern is that multif family, two families and
three families only represent >> small >> less than 500 or just over 500 out of six 7,000 non uh you know single family condominiums and apartments outpace that
dramatically. But 500 out of even if you just single families, that's 500 out of 6,175 single families, you're talking less than 10% that adversely affect I believe the single families with that number. Um
because my folk I I saw that and and and I looked at all residential and I didn't consider all residential because that was a one of the categories that everything was glombmed together. But where there was such disparity between apartments, condominiums, three and two, and then single families, I really focus
on the single families because that was the far and away the vast majority. Single family and condominiums were almost in line this year. So if you you could bundle those two. I >> the first time in a number of years. >> Yeah, the first time in a number of years, you're absolutely right. So, while I understand it, I'm just I have
some other thoughts and but my thought is I don't want to weigh too heavy about the three and two family homes to the detriment of the six or 7,000 of the others. >> And that's why that 2% increase is not a
detriment. >> Looking at the numbers, okay, >> over the last last couple of years, what we've what we've assigned them. Okay. >> Just >> Yep. No, >> you're right. It's a small percentage, but it's part of the makeup of the valuation
>> and the classification. >> Um, >> so your your suggestion, Dan, is is it about 12 >> 12 and $129 a month per family on a single family? >> Um, well, it's 153 a year, Mike. I
didn't break it down. 53 in residential, 105 on condos. >> Still $383 on a two family. It's a big number. >> It is, >> but measurably a larger value.
>> It's it's three it's three singles. If you It's not quite three singles. We all know the reality of that. But it is I if you divided that by three, you know, that number by three, you know, you're spreading that wealth amongst three families.
>> I know when somebody sits down and writes out the check for the tax bill, >> but they're writing it for but they're writing it for three three distinct residential units. A single family is one residential unit. A three family is three residential units. Granted, we all understand that it doesn't have the same
property tax, doesn't have the same makeup or the same look. But if that were three times a single unit, a single family, I would consider that in line. Maybe maybe not quite three times. >> But then conversely, if you take a three
family, the value of that three family some million dollars and the average home in Danas is how much? Single family >> 6:30 >> 7 [clears throat] 7:30 >> 7:30 >> is that an average really
>> that's the average but what's the average three family >> 900 >> I don't have that on my the average market value is around a million >> it's probably not 22 2100 >> it's certainly not >> it's probably not and I I grant all of
that but it's still a value higher than a single family it would be more than 700. Let's just use very very rough numbers, but let's say it's 750 is the average single family. The average two family is higher than that. The average three family is probably higher than that. And
so if your value is higher, it's relative to your tax bill is relative to your value, >> right? And that's why I want to keep it under 5% and be reasonable. Um, >> well, let's all somebody else say what he has to say. [laughter] >> I I
I was looking more at the all residential. I didn't necessarily break it down >> by single and three families. Um, and I'm I was also very sensitive to the shift that we're going to be giving the
businesses, especially the small businesses. I wish there was a way to have one for small business and one for the big car dealers. That that can't happen, right? >> Whatever we do for the businesses is is for everybody
>> by value. >> Okay. So, uh I was looking more at a 1.4990 4990 and my thought on that was the fact that if you look at the all residentials
is 3.57%. And the businesses is 3.59%. [clears throat] So we shifting it in a way that the businesses and and just so people understand what that means in dollars uh if we have a 1.49 499.
Uh, a single family will be $182. That's about $2.39%. Uh, a condominium will be $124 a year, which is about $10 a month. Um,
the two, three families will be $414. And then the the businesses will be about $1,400 14.88. But if we shift to the 1.5140, that business will be at 190007.
I think that's a lot for a small business. Um D, I'm not sure. At 1.4990, businesses actually benefit almost $2,000. No, if you
>> It's a minus $2,000 1,800 for a business. It's You're right. >> It's 14.88 and with a change of 3.59. >> I'll I'll redo my calculations, but the average >> I'm going by the chart that we we got
like this uh the chart that the assessor gave us. >> [clears throat and cough] >> Unless John, you have the math go. >> No, no, I'm I'd rely on the assessment before mine or I validate mine.
So to D's point, I did start de looking at 150 and then my thought process brought me up to the 15140. >> Yeah. >> So a little lower than I did, but
>> the 1510 I mean is I think it's still fairly it's still closer. is still a closer shift than the 1514 because at the 15 uh 010 the residential is still
182. So there's really is still 2.39%. So they still don't get the bulk of it. Um the condominium is the same 124. Uh there's just a little more shift from the two three families to the
businesses. So instead of 1,400 for the business, it's going to be 1,588 uh which is 3.75%. I mean I'm palable to that that that's close enough, but I think 1900 is a lot
for a small business. >> But am I am I correct in this in the chart saying that that business is worth $2.2 million? $2.3 million the value of that business >> the a the average commercial and industrial property. Yes.
>> Yes. So if if that's the value that we're using for these numbers, right? Is that right? >> The 2.328. >> So I'm just saying that that bump may not be as severe for them if they're >> definitely. I mean, I wish we could
charge the big car dealer more, but since it's going to be the same, Zabel down on Maple Street is going to take the same beating as the big dealer. So, it's like we got a balance,
>> but it's per the value of their business, isn't it? >> Yeah. The big car deal is a lot more than $2 million. >> That's right. So like >> 20 million the place on Elm Street that sells tea, they're not going to pay 1,400 bucks, right? They're gonna >> No, >> it's going to be adjusted per the value
of their business >> based on the value of the property. Yes, >> the property. >> Okay. >> So, John, how do how do we um and Rodney, how do we do this to uh keep it level because we don't want it to be too
much of an impact for the residents, you know? I mean, I know we're setting it, but >> so [snorts] the the successes always started with by telling us where we were last year. >> It's not for them to tell us where to be
this year. >> No, I know. But the 175 was last year, right? >> No, that was two years ago. >> Sorry. Two years ago. Two years ago. Yeah. >> And we opted not to. >> We opted not to do the 150. >> We went lower. Yeah. >> Right. And then last year I we couldn't go there. Um, if I may just go back to
my original premise, when I was given the value of a multif family, I was thinking fair market value. Mr. Leel has a two family assessed value at 792
versus a single family of 730. So that kind of shoots Mr. Tr's argument that it's worth that much more according to this number. It's only some $60,000 worth more and we want to bump up their tax bill more than double their the new
value. >> Wait, is that really a true value? >> That's what the assessor says. >> Well, that's that's the average. >> Yeah, I was going to say more than that. >> So that's the you know there's highs and there's lows within that >> two family or three family for 792 must be >> that that number represents the the
total value of all the two families divided by the number of two families. It's Totally. >> Take that for what you want. >> See you on my evaluation when the tax bill comes out. [laughter] >> January 1st. Come see me.
>> But to be honest with you, between Dan's original number and D's original number, you're talking about a difference of four cents per thousand on the res. >> It's so minimal. I I realize that. So when we pick these numbers, it's what we're all comfortable with what makes
sense. But at the end of the day, you're correct. Unless we want to go to 1.75, >> any takers? >> Oh, no. >> No, are you staying with the 499? Is that you, D? >> Uh, that was discussion.
>> That was um >> that's what you're still thinking, right? >> I'll come down a little if D goes up a little. Oh, and I've [laughter] got some I've got some thoughts too that I'd like on, but >> I'd like to hear what my my concern I'm just trying to find that in this spreadsheet you have the commercial FY26
is two 2,328. >> Mhm. >> But I I pulled from either the report or this document >> 2,147. I'm trying to find the >> that might be including personal property, which isn't included in that
last column because personal property ranges from like a hundred bucks to millions [snorts] of dollars. So, [clears throat] it kind of skews the the average numbers if I throw personal property into that column. So, that that could be the difference that you're looking at.
>> Just give me one second. I'll I'll find it. um trying to find the there had been an average in here of of commercial I I believe but that's why there's a difference. Okay. Um I am so slight different but as
I said there's many ways to slice this and and and I think Dan's right. This isn't for the assessor to suggest how we should do it. This is ours and I would never go to a tax classification over one. We can we can't walk that back that we we crush the residents. Um
historically we've split at 6634. Um, and by the way, a couple of very important data points here. One of the tables in here have 10 has has the changes over 10-year period. >> In 10 years, we've gone from a 7525
split to an 8020, which is dramatic for for as far as the value has been pushed even further onto the plate of residential. So, the value the entire value of the town has shifted five points towards the residential. Um, so people talk about us uh overbuilding the
car dealerships, the you know the the hotels and things of that nature. Understand that the values of the homes have dramatically outpaced it. The other important data point I want people to understand is [snorts] the average value of the housing of houses. Um,
in 2015 your house the average was 358,000. Now it's 693,000 700,000 roughly. In in 10 years, you've gone up 93%. And people should understand, they talk about taxation and how we're taxed, and I
appreciate everybody feels they're overt taxed, but your tax bill has only gone up 43%. Your value has gone up 93. Your tax bill has only got 43 in that 10 years. Um, but there's several this this whole construct of how would we split
this up is just artificial. It was started many many years ago. Um and and you know you can't I talked about leaving at the current rate I talked about you know zero happening to you know so the the residents get zero increase on what the effect is on the
businesses I came with I came up with in my recommendation was um 1.5. So I think we're in the same ballparks. Um, if you really want to get even, my my usually my my statement is the tide should r um
uh both boats should rise with the tide whether it be commercial or or residential. And that factor was 1.572 and I'm not going to go for that. I'm not going to be very um supportive of anything over 1.50.
Um I I it's an I don't want to call it an anomaly. It is a it's a mathematical reality that we're going to and that's why I asked that question earlier. I don't want to go to anything over 150 in the event because we're
always accused of tax to the max. Tax to the max. This time we're taxing the max to mitigate one over the other dramatically. And I would um I I I'm I'm saying 1.50. So, I think we're very close between the
numbers that others gave. I'd like to hear the reasoning that, you know, if Mike has a suggestion or or or or um or the chairperson has a suggestion and why because my reasoning is it's close to what you guys want and it's a it's a consumable difference.
[snorts] >> Mike, did you want to >> uh go in? [clears throat] >> Well, I ironically I had a dot beside the 1514. Um, but then I have a bunch of dots [snorts] because there's lots of places
you can go. Um, so I mean simply put, you don't want to hurt the resident, but you can't hurt the business either. We need the businesses to come in town
and pay their taxes so that we can we can all have nice things. So, um, yeah, I was down in that area of 15140, uh, as well.
>> You, you said 154. >> Yeah. Yeah. Which was the, uh, 153 uh, adjustment. >> Okay. >> For the single family. Okay. I see. >> Same number I had. >> Okay. So, it was Okay.
Okay, I guess I'm next. I'm going to be the I'm >> You're going to be the tiebreaker. >> Yeah. Well, I'm the I'm going to be the high person. I was looking at 1.5690. >> Excuse me. >> 1569. I wanted to only You know, the residents
have been impacted a lot. Um that would be a difference of what? $22 for residential. Um, $21 for condominiums, $240 for two family.
[clears throat and cough] >> What did I say? >> I'm I'm sorry. Did you say 1.5670? >> No. 1 point Yeah. 1.56 >> 1.56 >> 69. I'm sorry. 69. >> Oh, 1.56
>> 90. Okay. >> Okay. So, it's kind of hard to read. So, I what I had is $22. >> So, that's 22. >> $22 only for the residents, uh, single family, 21 for the condos, $2.40
for the, uh, two families. Uh, what's that? 107. Well, no, that's all residential. And then for as much and then, uh, 8491, right? 3491
>> 3491 for the uh commercial. >> But you're going by dollars. I I I I measure >> percentages. You want to go by percentages? Well, yeah. Then >> if I go by percentages, then you're only going up >> 14. Well, 841 for the commercial. Then it would be 143 really all residential.
>> Oh, be well >> 29 for single families. >> 29%. Correct. >> That that's right. 29 versus 8.41 41 is a dramatic difference. You're putting more burden on percentage-wise on the businesses than you are on the
residentials. And there really is no we there's no one who can give a solid answer as to why businesses as a philosophy should pay more. They consume less of any of the taxpayers in this town. They don't do the senior center. They don't do the library. They do roads. They do police. They do fire.
Absolutely. But as a consumer, if if we went to the if we all went to a restaurant, ordered a meal, and Mike stayed with just a salad, and that was it, while we all ordered premeal drinks and appetizers and entre,
is it fair for him to pay split the bill evenly? And as a matter of fact, we'd be asking Mike in this in this example to pay more than the rest of us. We're asking businesses to pay more than they consume simply because they're businesses. But
the reality is just like tariffs, those taxes get passed on to people. And so I I'm I'm very cautious about I'm putting too much more burden on a business for the sake of the residents. I you know I I I I already lost the
argument and that's why I'd never go to a residential factor of 1.0. But why are we taxing.329 for a single family versus 8.41 for for a commercial the dollars may be close but the dollars aren't the the the
measurement. The dollar it's the percentage of your value that's the measurement. So I'm I'm I that's why I I I I not in favor of again further burdening the businesses more than we have. We used to charge them 6634
even though they were only >> bless you. >> You know even though they were only 25%, now they're 20%. >> I know but we can't keep on burning the residents. >> But we can't keep burning businesses. >> Business the business. We want to attract businesses which we will. We've got a lot of growth. How do you attract
your tax rates so high? >> I don't think that's really high compared to other communities. Gardner, >> just for an example, Beverly's 175. >> Mhm. >> It is. >> It has been for a number of years. >> It says it right in Yeah. on the chart. Yeah. >> So, I mean,
Gardner is right. They don't consume as much, but the 1.75 doesn't chase businesses away from a Beverly or a Peodyy. maybe a Salem. So, [snorts] um, Madam Chair, can I make a motion
just for conversation? >> Sure. >> Thank you. Make that we adopt a factor of 1.510, which is in between where >> D and I were to begin with. >> You're saying one point. What is it? >> 1.5
Z. [clears throat] gets us over that 150 which I think is important to do >> 1.5 >> 1 0 >> 1 0 Okay so you want to explain that so people can hear what that is
>> 161 increase to the residents >> yeah single family >> yeah 2.11% %. >> Yeah. And then >> condos 2.27 4.85 for the two family which under the 5% that's important
and then over um D where am I on the right four something >> 4.26 >> 432 >> 432 thank you. And if you express it in dollars, for single family, it would go up $16053 a year versus a business which would go
up $1,791 a year. And again, value to value percentage percentage. You're doubling the percentage. But now, now we're getting into shaving pennies because I had the other I know I I had the other
>> I had the other option 1.50. So, [snorts] I'm I'm I I'll be supportive of 1.51. >> Is there a second, Gardner? >> I'll second that. I'll second that.
>> Anybody else? I'll go with that. >> Yeah. I mean, um, yeah, I I do think [snorts] I mean, it's still a little higher than what, um, I cuz here we have
the R resident is 3.27 and the businesses at 4.32. So that's another 1% increase toward the businesses. Um so dollar wide so [snorts] we're going from 161
for the resident at $14 a month to the businesses which is $17.91 um I mean I [snorts] I I'll support it um it's a little higher than I would have wanted to be more even but
>> so throw it out no this is fine We got a first and a second. >> Yeah, we got a first and second. >> First and a second. All in favor? >> Make another motion. >> I >> I >> opposed. No, >> you're saying no. And >> yeah. >> And I don't What was D's vote? >> D said yes.
>> Yes. >> Okay. 4 to1. >> 41. >> So that's 1.51 0. >> Yes. >> And then this the residential factor is 8649. >> Yeah. Correct. Correct. Correct. Thank
you. Everybody to the eye clinic. [laughter] >> Can't read this thing. >> 1.5. >> You didn't offer it. >> Come come see me next [laughter] time. >> Okay. Thank you board members.
>> Okay. Let's put that aside. Thank you, John Rodney. Thank you for all the hard work. Okay. So, excuse me. >> Oh, your rule is back. Rule is back for the clerk. She wants them back. Thank you. Thank you. Those helped a lot.
Okay. The board will consider reappointment of Rodney Connley to the retirement board. Welcome, Mr. Connley. >> Thank you, Madam Chair. Didn't time that right after the tax rate, but okay. [laughter] I was going to let you go. But >> we'll talk to Miss Freus about that next
time. >> So, why should we >> I know. Any Okay, board members, do we have any questions for Rodney? >> All right. Do I have a motion? >> Yes. >> I move we accept the reappoint. Oh, I'm
sorry. My [laughter] You did it. >> I'll second it. >> Okay. All in favor? I opposed. >> Thank you, Mr. Conway. Thank you very much. All right. The board will continue discussion of recommendations by the town meeting manager acts review
committee. All right. >> This many papers. >> I know there's a lot of papers today. Thank you. Okay. All right. Tonight, let's see. In November 17, 2025, we'll continue deliberations on the changes to the town
manager act, specifically the recall elections provision proposed by the review committee. The goal tonight is to determine the consensus of the board related to the recall provision. Staff will then work with town council to draft a warrant article, if appropriate,
to reflect our deliberations. We will then review and discuss the updated versions of both the town meeting and the town manager acts as well as draft warrant articles at our next December 2nd meeting. As a reminder folks, uh tonight is a public meeting
and is for select board deliberations. The public hearing for the proposed warrant articles is scheduled for December 16th. >> Madam Chair, if I might. >> Yes. >> Sorry. >> Please. Um, this warrant article came before the
board probably six years ago. I know I was the author of it. I did a lot of work with town council. I did a lot of work with of research. I came up with the wording. I put it by then our town council um and forwarded it on and asked this board when I was a, you know,
a member if if we would adopt this as a select board warrant. Um the answer was 3 to two against adopting it as a select board warrant. And [snorts] we then left it to
one citizen who took up the language at the at a town meeting. I believe it was in 2023. It may have been 22. That effort failed on town meeting floor. It was new on on on you know had a lot of questions. uh it failed and was
picked up by a second citizen as a citizen's petition. >> Um it failed including um uh a it had a unfavorable recommendation from FINCOM on both of those years. Um there was amendments offered to
reverse that which failed and they and they and the the FINCOM um the FINCOM recommendation was upheld. Then it was uh it was the that was the same year we were discussing the
formation of the town meeting and town um manager act review committee and it was pushed to that board committee for review as well. Um as we've heard it
can't be in either of those documents. This would require a home rule petition which is a completely different mechanism by the legislature to allow us to adopt it if it were to be forwarded to them uh for adoption. So I guess the question tonight is
is the board going to uh embrace this as a select me select board warrant in which case we would then work with the town council to do the things outlined here. Um, and if
not, uh, leave it to a citizens petition again, which frankly I would be very much in favor of and maybe even post myself. Um, so the question is, do we do we think that at this time uh, this is an opportunity for the
select board to put forward this warrant. This is the nuclear option. This is if someone is convicted of a crime, we currently have no mechanism for removing them. The numbers and thresholds in this document are so incredibly high. I cannot envision it would happen unless for something so
heinous, so awful that it would be an It says right in here, you cannot remove someone for doing their job. You may not like their votes. You can't remove them for doing their job as a select board member. the thresholds for getting signatures and the time frames for getting signatures are so tight again it
would have to be a heinous heinous act that people would say this person should not be in charge of of of the town in any manner who and I'm choosing the select board but this happens would also happen for uh school committee and for I
believe library as well um so it boils down to are are we is the board looking willing willing to adopt furthering this as a potential select board warrant. And I'm No, I counted the three wrong the last time. I'm hoping I count the three
right this time. >> Dan, what do you how do you >> you know >> what are you thinking? >> I don't lose any sleep over this one. >> I mean, what is the [snorts] benefit? What's the harm? It's like I have no
real opinion on this. If as Gardner says it's so difficult to um get over the thresholds, it's like why bother? Unless it's really something serious and if something really serious,
somebody [snorts] would be arrested and be going to jail without us recalling them in my opinion. I mean, whatever the board would like to do, I'll go along with I'll be if we go do it fine. And if we don't find it, just again there's
there's no benefit. There's no harm either way. >> Okay. Let me just read about the recall elections as proposed by the review committee. Subsection A establishes which elected officers may be subject to recall. Um section B establishes the process as you were saying Gardner at
least 350 voters file an affidavit with the clerk declare grounds for recall. A voter and official cannot be grounds for recall except in a conflict of interest violations. The clerk issues blank petitions. Um petitioners have 20 business days to return to the clerk. We
need SE signatures of 20% of the registered voters in the town and the clerk gives to the registers of voters and uh register has five business days to certify signatures and then and with the review committee also in their
subsection C establishes the processing for schedule the election if the petition is certified by the registars's respective board is notified subject of recall is to be notified by said board within 72 hours officer subject to
recall uh resign within 5 days. Election ordered by select board not less than 64 days, no more than 90 days unless another town election is scheduled. And then section D, the warrant must be in accordance with the election laws.
Section E establishes the ballot format. Section F establishes process for filing vacancies if an officer is recalled. Subsection G establishes rules for filing subsequent recall petitions and subject Establishes
that officers have not been recalled [snorts] or resigned during recall proceedings shall not be appointed to the town office within 12 months. >> Natalie is also here and Mike Trainer are also here if we have questions for them. >> Okay. But the all those conditions there
are based on home room petitions that passed. Mhm. >> So the the structure is sound, the the legal guidance we got from town council is sound. This is the George Santos and Matt gets nuclear option. People who are so who have done things that are so
abhorent that they they they were removed. We don't have a mechanism for removal. You can't you can't enforce a law you don't have on the books. >> Do you want to say something? >> Yeah. I actually have been losing sleep over it. [laughter]
uh because I I didn't think it was necessary. Um but then the more I thought about it and the more I look into it, I said I actually believe it is necessary. Um
and and I can't thank Mr. Trainer enough for being persistent with this. Um I this is what governing the people by the people is all about. So, thanks for all the information. I don't know if this was uh available to
the public uh to you, Madame Chair. The the the note from the town manager and the the town council. >> Um the what he's referring to is a memo from town council that walks through the process that the select board would have to do to get it through the legislature. Um no, it's a technically attorney
client privilege, but I'm also it's a process document. >> Okay. because it it appears to me that the it was very helpful for me to see that the town council explaining to us how we could get this to the finish line if we choose to do it. Uh the first
thing was to draft the proposed special act which is probably >> one of the draft that you read there. Uh but but then when I look at the town meeting from last year, article 38, the citizen petition, the recall provision,
I believe that had passed. Is that correct? >> No, >> it did not pass. >> Failed. >> I was looking >> this failed. Uh that's why we're here. >> That's why we're here. >> Okay. Okay. That that answers that question. Uh
yes, I do believe that we should have it as a select board warren um bring it back to town meeting uh for approval. I think we should seek guidance from town council on the language to make
sure that it pass legal master. I would even go one step further. Uh there's something there that says it should not happen for a vote. I think we should even take that out. >> I'm sorry. >> We should remove that.
>> What do you suggest? >> The reason the reason for the recall is whatever reason the resident believe that the person needs to be recalled for. >> I would disagree. It could be any reason. >> No, I I I would I would I would say I'll
let you finish. >> I'm not done. Yeah. Uh so if 300 people can sign a petition and then someone can get 20% signatures within 20 days.
Yeah. You probably need to be recalled. Uh so uh and because when we start saying it can't be for a vote, I mean even if it's for a vote, all the person has to do is to say it's not for a vote. And then we're putting the town clerk in
a position where where she has to decide is this because of a vote is this not because of a vote. If you want to have a recall petition is just has to have a rec petition and the petitioner should state the reason. If they say it's for a vote then the
people who sign the petition can decide and then the voters will ultimately decide. If they say it's for something else it will go through the same process. That way it's not up to the clerk or anybody to decide
except the petitioners themselves. >> You are correct that the petition has to give a reason that they're proposing a but we're hired to do tough work. We're hired to make hard decisions. What's right what's right isn't always popular. What's popular isn't always right. And
if we make a vote just and if you if you open this up to the fact that I don't like the way you voted on my on that subject, I think that it's I would not support that at all. It should be a reason outside why we we were elected to make decisions. You should not be able
to recall me or any politician for doing that work. The work is hard. The work is not often popular. Let's give a a real life example. the blue line issue. There were many people who no matter how you voted on it, didn't like the way it was
voted or the hockey incident, whatever it might be. There the for the school committee, there are people who make unpopular votes that they believe are correct and sound outside the emotion of the moment. And
if I'm hired to do make decisions, even the tough decisions, that should not and I do that work with full with my best intent and with my full heart. That is not something I should be recalled for. And none of the other recall pos uh home
room petitions allow for that either. When I look at the example for the one that the town um >> council share, >> he said any holder of an elective and this was from 2016 an act. Any holder of
of an elective town office in the town of Shirley >> Mhm. >> may be recalled from office for any reason by the registered voters. it doesn't pass because when we start passing the reason and we dictate to
people the kind of reason that need to be used I mean where does it stop >> and I can show several others that was one example I can show several others that I based the language on that also precluded
votes your your honest vote as an elected official >> I totally agree this one was very simple he said I mean once you meet all the other criterias as section one of that sharing example says for any reason deem
necessary cuz if we think about it you can't do it 6 months after you enter office you can't do it 6 months before you end so that's one year that's >> no the the the you can't do it 6 months before the next election for which you
are a candidate you can do it in the first six months >> no I think that uh he said you cannot do it within the first 6 months of assuming office and you cannot do it. >> I'll I'll believe that's accurate.
>> I unless I read it wrong because in my mind that was already one full year where that recal petition cannot happen >> and then >> that that wasn't a condition. It's only the six months at the end. >> Okay. >> Why don't we have uh the committee go up
there? Mike, would you like to go up to them? Please introduce yourself. I'm Mike Trainer, town meet member precent five. Um, just to clarify, I believe D is right with that and it's the language in all of these, you can look at them online is all very similar.
The reason >> for the six months when you first start and then the six months at the end of the term is because in theory someone could eliminate a whole board without those provisions in there. And that's
when I spoke with New Bedford, that's the way they explained it. Um it's a protection in there so a whole board doesn't get wiped out. >> Okay. >> That helps. >> Which has happened in other communities. >> Yeah. >> Correct. So that protection is in this
one and it's in most communities. >> Yeah. Yeah. So so so it kind of further narrow the window where this can actually occur. And then when I say for any reason,
I mean you have 3 years anyway regardless for the voters to go back out. So you take one year out. So there's a very narrow window where this can occur and the threshold is so high. So I think we should just make it simple
and follow the sharing model where is any of these holder of the office for any reason and then we don't have to pick and choose cuz what we say outrageous or bad was bad for you may be
terrible for me and then it it adds a level of subjectivity and who is there to decide >> and I think these are all great points and I think they should be deliberated when we decide if we're going to pursue it as a select board member warrant and
and and I I can acquies to the to the elect to the vote to the section you're talking about >> after I deliberate on it a little bit, but I'd still like to see it go forward as a select board warrant and do that due diligence. Do exactly what you're talking about.
>> Mike, any comment at all? [clears throat] >> I'm in favor of it. I think that uh chances of needing it is probably zero, but better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it. >> Dan, do you have anything else?
>> That was a profound statement and I'll go along with that. [laughter] >> Well, I'm in favor. >> Going to let you use this, too. >> Other ruler. I'm in favor favor of it, too. Yeah. Um, so I mean this is not a vote, but it
sounds like we're having the board is supportive of this. Um, I would suggest that we clean this language. >> Mhm. uh and and get some help from to you,
Madame Chair, to to the town manager and get some help from town council because there were also a few things in the current act that was proposed in 2024
uh that I wanted to bring up. Um if if we're going to use similar language, uh section two said uh 350 or more registered voters of the town may file an affidavic with
the town clerk containing the name of the office sought to be recalled and a statement of the grounds for recall. The town clerk shall thereupon provide the
voters copies of printed form petition blanks addressed to the respective board. [snorts] I I wasn't quite sure why we'll be addressing that to the board. Uh I think that should be addressed to the petitioners.
>> Yeah, if I may, Madam Chair, um a couple things since it sounds like the consensus is there. Um I would be starting with where we because we've put this on the agenda as part of the discussion around the town meeting town manager acts. We need to work from the proposed
um the review committee's proposal which is in the town manager the the report of the town manager and town meeting acts review committee. >> I say these words a lot. Um and they proposed it as a new section seven. It'll be separate, but that's the
verbiage we should be working from. >> Thank you. So, yeah, >> which I think is quite similar. >> Just out of curiosity, why are we bound by that? We're taking this out. We're taking this out of the town manager act for very >> legal reasons. >> Yes. >> If we're saying now we want a select
board warrant article to for a recall petition, why are we bound to that version? And I'm not objecting. >> Yeah. You're not bound to it. I'm saying as an agenda item today. Tonight it was listed as an agenda item under this. That's why um if and you can change anything you want within here. Um but
that's where we that should be our starting point. >> If we want to do that as a setting point that's fine >> and I want to just one clerical um thing that would we do need to I I pose some of questions that I had one thing that we the board will need to decide because it's not consistent in the proposal is
um which offices in particular. So I I get the sense the intent is school committee and select board. But in one of the sections it only references section two which is only select board. So I just need I'll just need with town council to clear that up. I didn't see
from the proposal that came from the review committee anything about the library trustees. So >> I don't know if that was the intent or not. >> The library trustes >> might go up to the podium please. >> Okay. So that's what the I would just need clarification from the board so
that I can work with council to get it done right. So if you guys want to do all the elected positions that's absolutely up to you. I just need to know to clarify it. >> So I in the original one all the townwide positions were included and that was recommended through certain
lawyers I had talked to. Um basically they were select board, school committee, town moderator, housing authority and library trustees were what was originally included. And then again the review committee you guys and well at least I don't know if you intended to but you limited it to um school
committee and um and select board by the way by where you referenced it in other places. So >> but the moderators moot because the moderators vote voted in every year. >> So that's moot given the guidelines. >> I the intent was not for town meeting
members. It was for townwide election. So that would be select board, school committee, library trustees, and board of uh a housing board. >> Okay. So that's >> but that but that was the original intent in the original language before it was modified. >> So it would be helpful to hear from the board. >> I I would want it to be any of any
townwide elected body. So it's those four. >> Those four. Yeah. >> So the moderator was put in in case that term ever changes. >> Um a home rule petition is not easy to change. If 20 years from now they make that a three-year term, this doesn't
have to be it's it's just all ti that way there'll be no question and then I then in that case I'd add it knowing that it's moot for now but in the event that the law changes that the and we are talking about the moderator's election anyhow. So I'd be fine any townwide
elective which would preclude town meeting because they're precinct elected. I agree. >> I don't see them the need to put the moderator in because it's a one-year term and what we have to go through to make a change. It would be a home rule
petition. >> Yes. So, we are not listing we're not listing her. We're just saying townwide. >> Townwide >> except the moderator. >> Well, we don't even need to put the exception because she won't fit under the 6 months before and six months
after. >> Right. >> That's why he said he's fine. Uh, and I also, thank you for sending me to this. Uh, I also changed the hours to business days. Um,
I think select board member Gardner brought that up uh last time cuz if we say 72 hours is Christmas Eve, >> we don't want Katy to come here on Christmas Day to to try to get signatures because she she has to get it
within 72 hours. >> Okay. >> So, I'll say three business days. Um, the next one is five business days. So, so we should change I think it's a cap section B and section C they have hours
um we can change it to business days >> and you um sorry Madam Chair um and [snorts] this will come back to you for for deliberations you know to vote it in as an article and then for public hearing. So this but this is just giving us the boundaries. The other piece I um
reflected on that would be helpful for you guys to think about uh is if there should be notification to the officer subject to recall earlier in the process and ina and maybe maybe again the intention was there but and I just didn't see it but it's it appears as
though the actual officer although we all know the person will know um but they don't they were not required to notify them until after it's over 20 days, right? Because you have the first 72 hours, then you have 20 days to get the signatures, then they have 5 days to
certify, then they have 72 hours to let the board know. So, >> just would re >> I mean, I understand I understand it and you're right. This is a small town. You'll know right away, [laughter] but >> we don't give preublication
or pre issuance of a citizens petition till it shows up. Even though the clerk gets a request for a form to sign a petition for which there's wording that has to be the same at the top for all of them, we don't get any formal
notification about that in any manner. Um I I I I think that would change the I guess I' I'd rely on the clerk's thought on that because I don't know. I'm not I'm not thinking we we should change that process.
>> Madam clerk, would you >> any thoughts? any sense. >> I They'll know. >> They'll know. [laughter] >> So, >> right. >> I mean, I I would have no problem notifying someone. I mean, I guess that's common courtesy to let them know that there's this petition.
>> Okay. >> Yeah. And >> the will of the board. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> It's fine with me. >> What's the will the board? >> Uh well, I I'm sorry. I had my notes on the last year's um petition. Uh section H in the new
town meeting act um it says a person who has been recalled from an office or who has resigned from an office while recall proceedings were pending should not be appointed to any
town office. Uh should should we add elected also or or does this encompass appointed and >> budget [clears throat] doesn't say elected? >> I know but can they can they run again? >> Sure.
>> So I madam chair >> those 20,000 people would vote for them. >> I don't know. I I just didn't know if we should if it if we should bar them from putting their candidacy back within 12 months or just appointed.
>> So madam chair I did ask council I had that same question and I can read you the answer um which govern board can be recalled. So it's section [snorts] four. Wait. Oh this is a different question. The quote of because Massachusetts does not have a general
recall status statute, municipalities may adopt structural rules for their own governance as long as they're not inconsistent with the constitution or general laws. Since there is no general law governing recall or governing who may be appointed after recall, a restriction like this is not preempted
and is considered a valid exercise of home rule authority. So many of the Massachusetts acts do include this same prohibition. So, um, but she did not specifically answer the answer about the question about elected, but I don't think, and [clears throat] I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think you can.
>> Yeah, I don't think you can either. >> That would be a freedom of that would be a freedom of speech or expression. Is my right to put my name on a ballot? >> What if I'm What if I'm cleared of the embezzlement charge that >> got me thrown out? >> What if I you know,
>> I can understand maybe not appointing them. >> So, and we can that's that's >> right. That's that's okay. But I wouldn't preclude anybody from running off for office. >> Anything else, D? >> Uh, no, that's all. Thank you.
>> Anybody else? Donna, Mike, >> happy. I >> I had one more thing for >> So, we're going to see a warrant. >> Yes. brought before us that we can deliberate on >> and ask any questions at that point in time. >> Yes. >> Yeah. And it will be based on
>> on what we have in front of us except for the few things we clarified tonight. >> Can somebody just clarify on that section B with the town clerk show within 72 hours or did we change that business days? >> So two business days. >> Three business days.
>> Well, that's three 72 hours. Three business days. Okay. >> Thank you. >> And I I would assume at that point if to D's point, if we're going to notify someone, that's the section we would also >> added to
>> say and notify the >> intended person. >> Yep. >> All right. I'm sorry, Madam Chair, if I might. Just the only other piece is the vote whether or not to keep the you it can't be for a
vote that specific language or not. I I would like to keep it in there and and deliberate as a board whether to strike it or not or take it out and I'll I'll argue to add it back one way or the other. I don't care. But I think that's
an important part of this. Could I just clarify one thing that came up last night with the prior town council? So this although it's a s although it says you can't be recalled for any any of these things at the end of the day the way this is worded and basically every
other one we found with the exception of one town. It does say that the voters themselves individually determine whether any grounds listed for the recall are sufficient. So, at the end of the day, it's a suggestion, but it's not on the town clerk. It's the voters that
decide the way these are worded. And like I said, with the exception of one town, they're all kind of worded that way. And that's what we found the last time around. >> Leave it out and I'll I'll decide if I'm going to
>> I mean, it's not a hill I'll die on. for me. I think we make it simple and >> say it for any reason, but >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you, Mike. >> Whatever the lawyer says.
>> Yeah. >> All right. Thank you, everybody. The board will consider Oh, I'm sorry. The town manager will report to the board on various items of interest. Town manager Joe.
>> [snorts] >> Okay. Okay. Thank you, Madam Chair. And um I was just going to start with an update on the schedule just so on the town meeting and town manager acts. I think we talked about it last week. >> Um so, as you know, I am working with
council and have sub sent to you guys all the the town draft of the town meeting act that we believe town council and I believe reflects the deliberations. We'll be doing the same this week for the town manager act. Um, and based on those have draft some
initial warrant articles and have that all to you prior to the December 2nd meeting. So the December 2nd meeting is when you will really be um creating warrant articles. They and that will include one for the recall. Um December and I think you
announced this the public hearing on the warrant will be December 16th. Uh and then anticipating the the finance committee meeting in early January. And just as a reminder, if the the board decides to keep continue the hearing
after the 16th, we can fit in a special meeting as we discussed previously when we started this. Um so just to understand the timing a bit as we go forward. Um I do want to make a clarification regarding the swamp walk donations. Um thank you Mr. Solut. is
doing great work in in raising funds. Um, but the town is the town is not the one who's going to be accepting the donations. The rail trail that we've worked this through with the rail trail. While there is a very old account, the accounting goes much more smoothly. If the rail trail collects the funds and donates, they donate to the town as a
whole. So, if you would like to donate to the swamp walk, rail trail has something set up online already and that's the smoothest way to go. The >> Sorry to you, madam. The friends of the rail trail. >> Friends of the rail trail. Mhm. >> Um and thank you cuz Paul has been great
to work with on that. Um the whole the whole community. Um a couple a couple of things. The Danver's electric the um has been their uh credit rating has been upgraded from an A+ to a double A minus with a stable outlook. The upgrade
reflects uh strong financial performance highlighted by a fixed charge coverage ratio of 2.0 X for fiscal 2024 up from 1.6. 6x in 2022 and a continued increase in unrestricted cash and investments to
over 34 million which represents approximately 375 days of operating expenses. Um S&P also cited a reduced exposure to power supply cost volatility risk as we continue to transition away from short-term carbon-based bilateral
contracts. So, big thank you to Clint Allen, the municipal light board, um, and Angelica from the business department. Her team responded very quickly to get a bunch of statistics out. So, wanted to share that with you. Um, internally, we have kicked off
budget season, I think you all know. Um, so we'll be having our internal meetings over the next few months. Uh, and that, uh, process started off with a capital planning meeting. uh that is one of our initiatives to um work towards organizational alignment.
I didn't speak last time about the uh international city managers association conference that myself and Jen attended. I wanted to give you guys just a short update on some of the things that we spent time on. Um I focused my time there on sessions that were related to the goals and objectives that you all
voted on. Um I rece I went through a certificate training process on how to make trust an organizational foundation. Attended sessions on sec succession planning, community engagement, difficult conversations, um all of all the above. So thank you for the
opportunity to attend. Um is definitely worth the effort and there are two um we've submitted two different projects uh from Danvers to be presented possibly at next year's ICMA. So, um it would be
pretty big deal if the town of Damber is in an international cons uh conference presented to twice. So, we'll keep you posted to see how that goes. Um some events that we went to recently and thank you the whole board was at the Veterans Day ceremony. Um Kelly and her
team and Dick Moody. Um thank you all. The it was an incredibly moving um event in in honoring our veterans. Um, I think I was most impressed with Danvers. They engaged every age group from the littlest little ones singing. It's a
grand old flag. Um, to the veterans who led the pledge of allegiance. So, thank you. Thank you, Kelly. Thank you, Dick. Thank you, the Veterans Council and board for everyone for being there. Um, the chair and I also went to the Northshore Chamber um, Veterans Day breakfast, which is an incredibly
moving. If you haven't been, I recommend it. Veterans attend for free. [clears throat] Um that was an that was an incredible celebration and we got to meet there was at least two tables where we were sitting um were filled with Denver's residents and um our own Dick and
Christine Moody were honored with the Minute Man award. Uh we also had we did had Danver Police Department had a swearing in ceremony. So congratulations to all the officers who were promoted. Um, we did have one
new officer sworn in and um, I was completely impressed with the turnout. The family support here is incredible and I wish them the best of luck in their career and I look forward to watching them. This is this is going to be kind of a new fun part of this role for me is to watch um, police and fire
as they move through their careers in the community. Uh, we also had the resiliency summit. days was an opportunity for um internally for the champions to get together and work through the action items for next year and then present that externally um and kind of take a look at the
commitment to the resilient Danverse plan. I wanted to give a shout out to the um Danverse High School Environmental Club was there. It was a half day so they were able to attend. Um they have a lot of incredible projects moving forward uh that we as a town look forward to supporting them through. So
stay stay tuned. And there'll be more to come in this area in the in the coming year. And then upcoming, we have the annual Christmas tree lighting on December 6 starts at 4 um with Santa lighting the tree at 5:45.
And town offices will be closed on this come next Thursday, November 27th in obser observance of Thanksgiving. And we just want to wish everybody in the community a nice holiday. >> Thank you, town manager. Thank you. You do a great job. >> Thank you.
>> Um All right. Board. The board will consider consent calendar items as they appear. We have a very long list. Um what I'd like to do is a few I we could um do separately 2025 and then 2026.
Did everybody get a chance to look at um do I have a motion for the 20? >> A motion to approve the consent calendar for the balance of 2025. >> Second motion. All in favor? I >> oppose. >> Okay. And then uh the consent calendar.
Do I have a motion for the 2026? >> Can Can may I ask a question? >> Sure. >> Um I'd like to maintain uh my uh decision on one of these uh from last year without [clears throat]
uh failing to vote on the rest. Can you sing single it out or do I have to abstain to the whole group? I would say, right? >> Yeah. So, technically for a consent calendar, you're voting it as a as a whole. >> As a whole, so you all you take you can
take roll call votes on every one of the matters >> or you can abstain from all them. It's up to >> I would just say if you if you want to in all in favor I and then you would abstain. >> Okay. >> If that's what you choose >> individually or and mass >> all of them together.
>> Okay. So Mike, you on 2025 >> on 26 >> on Okay, we need a motion. >> I'm sorry. So we need a motion. Who wants to make a motion? >> I move we accept the 2026 consent calendar as presented.
>> 26 20 >> 2026 consent calendar. >> Second. Do [clears throat] I have a second? >> Second. >> Dan Dean. >> Okay. All in favor? >> I oppose. >> Uh obstained. Okay. >> Okay. Um,
correspondent, select board, new business, previous new business updates, and select board closing comments. Um, Gardenner, do you want to start? >> Uh, sure. >> Thank you. >> Uh, let's see. I got a couple of emails. Uh, one, uh, question through you to the clerk. Um, when do we approve liquor
license uh, renewals or do we? >> It's still, uh, liquor licenses are required to be signed and returned to me in the month of November. >> Yep. the first meeting in December, you'll get the spreadsheet with all the licenses. So, you would vote to uh
approve those license renewals for 2026, the first meeting in December, and then you would sign them in the second meeting of December. >> Okay. >> So, we're working through that. >> And then the question I got from one of the liquor license holders today, when can can they pick them up after
we've signed it, but before December 31st, or do they have to wait? >> No. liquor licenses. All license holders are made aware that liquor licenses are to be picked up on New Year's Eve day after noon time. Okay. At the police station, >> okay?
>> Because it it may fall on that's to keep it consistent because New Year's Eve day may fall on a Saturday or a Sunday and town hall is not open. So rather than say, "Oh, this year you're going to pick it up at town hall. Next year you're going to pick it up." So, the police department is very gracious um and they
have always um been the location for pickup after noon time. >> The email wasn't about the venue. The email was about the one-day window. Could they pick it up prior to that? >> No. >> Okay. >> They're not ready. Still preparing, putting them in an envelope. >> Okay. >> Uh and the license isn't valid until
January 1. >> Okay. We also I think I don't think I think I didn't check but we all several of us got may have gotten an email that a citizen was was thinking of coming and presenting something on a new business tonight. Can I suggest that that person be directed to the police? It was a
police matter. Um uh and then um I was also in attendance of the police swearing in. Glad to see fellow stockman there as well. Uh some of us were there and it was it was a great event. It was amazing how how many f and what I thought was particularly uh uh poignant
is that the chief mentioned all the family members who were there in support of the officers who were being promoted or sworn in. Um and uh it was nice uh it's a it was nice celebration and also same with Veterans Day. We I all of us
were there and it's always a good take and with like you said with the the breadth of of ages there and I'm glad you brought your father. So >> um >> that's all I had. Thank you, >> Mike. >> Uh just I enjoyed the Veterans Day
celebration. It was a great They do a great job. It's just that simple. If you if you haven't gone, you should go. You You're missing out. That's it. [snorts] Thank you, >> J. >> Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I attended that as well. Great event and kudos to the
DHS uh singers and marching bands as well. They have that metly that they play and the veterans can stand up based on which service they've they've done and
it's just really moving and incredible. So, thank you. Um, I also did receive um maybe it's the same email that everyone received about um a resident talking about some breakings in cars.
>> That's the one I was referring to. >> Okay. So, I I don't know if the town manager was on this. I'll probably forward it to her to send to to the police cuz they were talking about breaking in cars and I mean I wasn't aware of this and the teenagers by CVS
um and some juveniles in the bathroom at McDonald. Um so I I'll forward that to you to send to the police. Uh I also did receive a lot of emails about uh from different residents about the clickers. Uh the
majority were in support. Um there was I think a couple that [snorts] were against uh but the overwhelming majority were in support of the clickers. Um there was an email and note that the
town manager sent about the the buses the the Salem's keeper. Do we know what percentage of the 500,000 rides were like diverse ballpark? >> I I I threw you, Madam Chair. Um I don't know the number, but I do remember from
the transportation needs assessment presentation that the highest increase in ridership were all people from Danvers. Danvers is seeing um a significant increase in ridership. and we um the a town annual town meeting this past year in this budget, Damas
approved the our portion of the funding. Um but the what they're going for with that letter is a letter of support for the federal funding that backs up that Salem skipper. >> Oh, okay. Okay. Thank you. >> Thank you. That's all >> Dan.
>> Thank you. At our last meeting under new business, it was suggested that my report of conversations with town me town meeting members about clickers was informal and casual. Not sure what that
means. However, it's no more casual than our reports of correspondence. No more casual than D's update on reports that he's had on clickers. certainly no more casual than an alleged comment from a Hamilton employee.
I find these comments and others as an attempt to pressure us to make a certain vote and has caused me to look at this and make a decision sooner than I would normally do. I have thought about this issue in question and determined that the problem
really is some town meeting members lack of understanding of the law and how our town meeting operates. If someone has concerns about the moderator's decision, they can stand and call for a recount.
If other six members stand and request an agreement, then the moderator shall know, she must pull the body. I will be voting no on clickers. In those town meetings that vote on it,
if it prevails, please remember why you voted as you stand in line at 11:00 at night waiting to turn in your clicker before you can go home. Thank you. And I have another um question, madame
chairman. >> Um we do have reliable, reasonable electric service. There have we just reported that their financials been upgraded, but I think the electric division could be more sensitive to the effect rate increases have on our rate
players. Perhaps they could come before us, the senior board in town, to explain the need for a 5% plus increase and then it would be easier for the rateayer to understand why. I know I don't.
>> Okay, great. That I think that's good. Thank you, Dan, for your comments. Um, yeah, that would we could uh ask the town manager. We could have uh Clint from the electric Yep. next meeting possibly come in and explain. Well, not next meeting, but there is a rule of thumb to explain to us before they
institute the rate increase. I got my bills today. The rate increase went through. >> Can I uh append onto that that sewer the municipal bodies including sewer and water >> if they could come to us? I think it would behoove them to offer they they
are independent and make their decision. I get that. But this is a form also to educate the rateayers right >> as well and get you know we can provide feedback. So I'm agreeing with you and extending that to sewer and water. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> I think that would be good to have them maybe come and do a presentation so that everybody knows you know how that's worked. Um, I want to thank everybody, uh, the cadetses, uh, citizens academy, um, all the people in the audience, um, all the hard work that people have put
things through. Um, I did go to the, um, swearing in ceremony for the police. Uh, that was wonderful. The veterans ceremony, the veterans uh, breakfast. Got to love the vets. Um, remember Dick Moody did say, I believe it was uh
during the um breakfast that if people want to buy a wreath um they go to Operation Truth uh supports America, >> right? Yeah. Wreaths of America, right? Wreath across across America and make a donation. And what they've done and I I believe Select Board Bean was there too
when we were putting the wreaths >> on um on the stones at the was it Wadssworth Cemetery? Yes, >> Wsworth Cemetery. So, um Dick did say if uh people want to do that to start, um you know, get a hold of him for that
donation. Um that would be great. Uh I want to say congratulations DMS Electric. I too have received some emails about the clickers that um are strongly in favor for it and I believe that we will be talking about that next meeting. Um, >> Madam Chair. >> Yep.
>> Um, we had talked about if there were questions beyond what was raised here that they would come through um through my office so that we could try to get anything asked in advance. We have not I have not received any questions um beyond what was >> this week. >> Okay. Beyond what was in the um the
[snorts] notes. So >> questions about the clickers this week. >> Yes, please. >> Okay. So everybody send things to the town manager this week about questions or anything like that. Um, I also want to let people know that we're having a downtown business holiday party um for
the businesses uh on Tuesday, December 9th at the Berry Tavern um 5:00 p.m. Um, all are welcome. And I think that is about it. It was um it's really nice to see the community pull together for the veterans. And Dan, would you like to
make your closing comment? >> Yeah, just a comment. Uh the wreaths are $17. >> Oh, they are 17. >> 17. They're $17 donation. >> Okay. >> And give the check to Mr. Moody. Um and with that, if you see a vet, say thank you to the vet for their service, his or
her. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. Thank you. Good night. Thank you.