[Music] Good evening and welcome to for our April 28th, 2025 zoning board of appeal meeting. We only have one case on the docket this evening, so everything will be directed to our applicants that are sitting in front of us. Um, I will
introduce you to the board. Um, to my right is our clerk, uh, Ken Scholes. To my left, um, is Ken Jarvin and to my far left is John Bonner. From our planning department is Brian Zeli. He is our
planning director. When um our clerk reads your case, please proceed to the podium. Um you know, present your case, we will ask questions and then we will go out to the audience to see if they have any questions. There could be people online that have questions. Um
but it it it doesn't look like there's there going to be any objectors here tonight. Um so then we'll come back to the board. We'll deliberate. We will let you know what the results of our deliberations are. There are only four of us this evening. Um, one of our board
members could not be with us and we're also in the process of looking for um, alternates. If you know anyone who wants to serve, send them our way. Um, but that might impact uh, the decision tonight and if that's the case, we will let you know.
So with that, we um board members, we are in receipt of um u meeting minutes from April 14th. Any edits or comments? Hearing none. Do I have a motion to
accept? So move, Madam Chair. I'll second. All in favor? I. Any opposed? No. So there the minutes are accepted. Madam Chair, bring your mic a little closer. Oh, sorry about that. Madam Chair, did
you did you introduce yourself? Oh, I'm sorry. My name is Karine Dy. I always do that. I forget to introduce myself. Anyway, all right. Mr. Clerk, could you read our first and only case? Thank you, Madam Chair. First and only case is 25
Delaware Street. This is zoned R3. Uh, request for a special permit under section 9.2 two to create an extended family living area within an existing basement where the efflu will measure more than 750 square ft and will not uh
meet the communal shared space requirement. Uh the request is made by Scott Adet dock at 25-5101. Um could the applicant um proceed to the microphone and just shows the layout of the patient right now and
hold your hold your speak until you go to the mic. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, please proceed to the microphone and there there could be people on well first of all it's being recorded but there are people online who might be um trying to listen along. So proceed
please. Uh I'm Scott Adet. I'm the general contractor for Richard and Lisa Dela Solola at 25 um Delaware A. We're looking for relief of approximately 80 square ft over what is
allowed. If you look at the last page, you'll see the exact measurements of the basement subtracting the uh furnace room. Um we're looking for that relief. I to my understanding the new amount is 900 ft²
not the 750 according to the state that's ADU that's not an EA 750 750 okay I was told that by a different person but that's fine um but so we're looking for that relief anyways to put uh Richard's
parents down there who are uh aging and are going to need assistance and that's basically what it amounts Um, okay. Do do the applicants have anything else to add? Yes, please. And introduce yourself to
when you go up. I'm Richard Delosola, owner of uh $25. Uh, just repeat what Scott the Builder said. Um, we lived in Everett all our life. My daughter moved to Davis uh Elaine. My son's in puberty. So, we're looking to have take my parents
with us. My father's 86, my mother's disabled to come downstairs and live with us. Uh, it was a perfect house. We picked the house because of the basement, how finished it was. And they got four ways to get out of the house. There's no stairs, nothing except to come up and see us to get a walk around
cuz she's a walker now. Um, had a few falls. So, this is the reason, the main reason why we're doing this. So, hopefully it's a great neighborhood. you know, we're not used to the quiet area like we had didn't have in Everett. So, it's uh I'm hoping we can straighten
this out and have my parents move downstairs with us. Okay. Thank you, Ken. Any questions? Um, thank you, Madam Chair. So, in the application, it states the fact that you don't have any communal or shared space in this efflu
with your dwelling upstairs. Is that in fact the case? What's going to happen is for my parents especially when they're going to park in the garage and so you can clarify that a
little bit. So shared space is so shared shared space isn't uh isn't a garage but if I came in the garage I come into the you see the living room area. Uh me and my wife would probably go through there to get
upstairs at at time. I don't know if that's considered sheer space. So the garage door, you come in the garage and it's the exit out of the garage. That door. Yes. It would come. Yes. Exactly. Instead of walking around, we
would just come in uh in that door and go up the stairs. till we'll be living upstairs. So, Madame Chair, through you um Brian, is that efficient enough as a common space where they can walk through there from
the garage and just cut through there to go upstairs? We're talking about what's labeled as living room um on the um if we look on the screen here. Yep. So, it's the the room that's on the lower part of the
page. You're talking about that room. Excuse me. I think it's the dining, right? You mean the dining room? Yeah. Dining room, living room, the stairs, right? Yes. Um I mean I I think um well I mean the applicant applied for it based upon a
determination from both the building department and the planning department that there there's you know other other than the garage there's there's no real connection as far as the bylaw is concerned. Meaning that there might there's probably natural space that you guys are going to share. But they to um
but they they technically had to apply because as the definition of a communal space in the zoning bylaw, it does not meet that meaning that there's a shared space that you have to go into no matter what. Meaning that that there's one laundry room, for example, that that can
count for it. And basically for this family, the way it worked out, this was just the layout that worked cuz it's existing. So they said, "We're just going to go, you know, we're going to apply for what we need." Um, so that's why they're here, right? Okay. Um, I guess I don't have any other
questions. Thank you. Thank Thank you. You all set? No, no, um, yeah. So, Madam Chair, can I ask you? U, Mr. This is a Kelly. So would the utility room be I mean that could be
considered a shared type of I mean so not all the time but it's a it's a shared utility which is exactly what makes this not an accessory dwelling unit. This is not an ADU because the utilities are shared and that's the difference between the whole 900750.
There's a very distinct difference between like this is not an F sorry this is not an A protected ADU use first of all it's over 900 square ft y uh and even if it's not under 900 ft² the way that it's designed wouldn't qualify
without a certain uh building code fire rated it's just a different project put it that way so this is what um that's why it's not an ADU all right um so another part of my question was is the utility room a shared could it be a
common shared area? It's not a common shared area. It's a common util. It's like a common utility. Really? Think of it like a storage closet, but that which wouldn't be it. It has to be the way that again this is what the Danver's zoning bylaw defines as it. It's shared
living space, which that would not be. Okay. Um, so I guess I have I have no other questions. John. Uh, thank you, Madam Chair. through you uh Brian I just and and maybe for the builder as well I just want to make sure I'm clear too so ADU's
900 ft our efflow bylaws still at 750 square ft correct so right so if they could do this as an ADU they could have but they would have to have the exact opposite of an effl so the reason why they're I mean it's very easy to say the distinction an ADU everything is
completely separate you can't there is no connection right you can't have like a living room connection that that's technically then by definition not an ADU. So that's when we realized that okay you don't want an ADU then you want to have that direct connection between you know for their family like that's
just what they needed. So I was like okay then you can't have that you know you can't do an ADU then so the EFLA the way the that that allows mo most um most bylaws in Massachusetts don't have this type of they don't have this type of
option that we do have here. Sure. and it allows someone to do and if you can't go under 750, it allows you to apply for a special permit with the ZBA to go more for whatever reason they feel that you know they need it. Okay. And second question, um, and Mr. Richard, um, so I
know this is work already going on. So, uh, I'm assuming a building permit has already been pulled and this work is unrelated to the EFL that's being applied for tonight. Uh, you can talk. Yeah, I would I would speak to Mr. Odette. Yes, we applied for all three phases of
the house at one time and we had to pull back the one for the in-law apartment right now until we went to the hearing. So, right now we're rem I'm remodeling what would be their master bedroom area upstairs and putting a family room over the existing garage for them upstairs.
So, I'm in the process of doing that and remodeling their kitchen also while we're waiting to get answers on this part of the project. Okay. And while you're up there, um, so we, you know, one of our other, uh, criteria for the EFL is we're not adding a second front
door. So, that is also the case. We're still staying with this one center. Exactly like it looks. Yes. Okay. And how uh does the egress besides the garage I already learned about, work for the basement? Um, besides the garage doors, there's two other exits in the
basement. There's one out by the uh utility room. Yep. That you can go walk down and go through. And there's also a a French door right off the dining room there. I don't know if you can see it in the picture of the dining room area. Um, that goes out to the back yard. You can you can point right on There's actually
three ways out of the basement. Okay. You can point the layout's right there. Here's the garage. You could go out. There's the French door and there's the uh utility room entrance that you come through the and out the back. Okay. But there are three exits for the people to
get out. And so there is no laundry room in this unit or is there a stackable like in the bathroom or something? Right now? Right now there's an existing if you look at the pictures, there's an existing laundry room downstairs and a half bath and like a little
um half kitchen type thing. And we we were we're basically just expanding to a 3/4 bath and a full kitchen, you know. Okay. And so the plan the plan is not to have um them share this laundry room. They're going to have their own laundry. They're going to have
their own upstairs, right? So they're not All right. I'm getting a picture here. And even though your application asked for [Music] um remind me uh I think the application asked for
something 98 m much larger than the 950 you're now detailing to us. Well I didn't realize that the you're detailing to us 978 but I don't believe the application I thought it was the application said 1152. So that's
what we went on. Well, the problem was the utility room's not really livable space. Correct. And the stairwell, they say, is not considered livable space. And that's what reduced it down. Well, that's what I'm trying to get a handle on. Am I improving something for 1150 or am I building inspector told me that
those two that they're not living space, so they should be subtracted out of the 1150, and that's why I did that. Okay. So, that's why it's really 978 is the actual living space. Okay. So through you madam chair uh Brian so we can amend this to the 978 and that will be yes you
can always go you can always go let you can always go in this particular case you can always go down yes so I just want to be clear with you so if you're okay with us defining this size as 978 ft okay I think I got it and um so I
think Ken already asked about the common shared area which there is none so that's one of the things we're if we're okay with that's one thing you're asking for outside of our EFLA. The second thing is 978
which is also outside of our 750. Very good. I got it. No other questions. Thank you. Okay. Um I I actually have some questions. Go ahead. Um it seems from the picture here um it's different than what the the the um basement plan
has drawn out. It looks when you go down the stairs as if there's a doorway at entering the effl. So, are you going to make that change or is it going to stay open like this? Uh, you mean coming into the living space downstairs? Yeah. If you see the if you come in the front
door, if it gets approved, there's going to be a door here, a little wall put up under the stairwell with a door so that they have their own private space and when when the Dallasos come in the front door or whatever, they go upstairs or you can get downstairs and go in through a door into their private space. Okay.
So, this wall is not here right now with any of this door. Okay. So, that we haven't obviously we can't touch that until what happens at the meeting here. You know what I mean? Right. Okay. All right. because I So that's right now is wide open, right? And and I was hoping it was going to stay like this only
because um you know obviously sometimes what we're concerned about is that after you know the people who apply, they leave the house, someone else comes back in and then they want to rent it out to someone else and it's completely sealed off. If it stayed like this though, it
obviously you would have to be family members in order to be comfortable living in a situation like that. Um All right. And you're as far as the washer and dryer, the um occupants upstairs are going to have their own washer and
dryer. Yes, they are. Okay. Cuz typically in a split level, the washer and dryer are downstairs. They they were right. And we, you know, they parents want they want their like privacy, you know what I mean? So, plus they couldn't, well, they couldn't they were
too old to climb upstairs to the upstairs one. So, we left the existing laundry downstairs there, you know? I mean, we didn't wipe we didn't remove it, right? But I'm just saying traditionally in split levels like the washer and dryer are usually downstairs. So, and and that's the way this was,
right? That's the way it was. We made one upstairs. Okay. You know. All right. I'm in an in-law. myself. I live in one in Wilmington and our common area is a laundry room. Yeah. And and honestly, a a lot of efflaw apartments as some communities
call them too. Right. The the thing with my place is we're on the same floor. This isn't the same floor and they're they're health-wise they couldn't be traveling up and downstairs to use the laundry, you know. Okay. J I have one more question for Brian. Oh, go ahead. Okay.
Okay. Uh, Madam Chair, through you. Uh, Brian, could in fact the front door if they came in that small area before the stairway up and the stairway down the breezeway, could they call that a mudroom?
I mean, if it behaved like a mudroom, but I don't I don't think that's how it's I guess I'm trying to find them a loophole to get around this to have some kind of common area. Well, I was asking the same question. It seems to me if they're going to enclose this, this becomes a mud room in a shared area.
Well, theoretically it is area there. Theoretically it is because if somebody comes to visit their parents, his parents, they're going to come through the front door and down, right? And go into their area theoretically cuz there's not another separate front door.
Could we consider that a shared area? I think we have in the past. That's why I'm too. But again, that's why I'm asking if Yeah, if you you would have to consider that front area. What does that measure there? Let me see here. It's like you're talking about 4T wide. Uh
it's No, it's uh it's a landing. It's six It's 6 and 1/2 ft wide. I mean, it says four by about 12 or 13. The first stairt Well, that's a 3ft door in this space, so it's got to be at least five.
You know what I mean? It says four, but it says four. I'm just looking what the plants say. I mean, six. It says four, but I mean it it seems more like a landing. It doesn't seem like a mud room, but I see what you're saying. I think it Yeah, put it this way. I think it I mean would do you really want to
put you want to push to make this very extremely small mud room that for what? You know, I don't know. I don't It does not appear to be a mud room. I I I don't know if I'm pushing for it, but I guess to me it just and I can say this for my comments, but this kind of loosely
qualifies as a common shared area. So, you definitely have the right to determine that the four of you. All right. I I have one other question. Um are you guys Yes. Thank you. Um is there a door at the top of the stairs or is it all open? No, it's open when you go up.
Okay. And what um what type of barrier? I'm assuming because we don't have the plans for the upstairs. You walk up the stairs. I'm assuming the kitchen's in front of you. And off to the right is the living area. I mean the bedroom area. Hallway. Hallway to the bedroom. Left would be your dining room, kitchen,
then into the new family room. All right. So, it's not open to the downstairs. No. Okay. Not at all. It's completely separate. Okay. All right. But it is open like when you walk up the stairs, you don't open a door and go in. No. You just walk up the stairs and you're in their home in in their area. Right. And so the separation is the fact
that we want to put that door there. So they have their own space that they don't want to deal with, you know, they always with their grandchildren, whatever coming up, which would be their great grandchildren. Um, also, you know, we're insulating the floors in between
because they want it quiet, you know. Yep. So, okay. All right, Brian, any questions from anybody online there? Uh there was no one online earlier. Uh and there's still nobody online. Okay. All right. We um you can
sit down. We're going to begin our deliberations. Ken. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um I personally don't mind co calling this common area. Um so if we do, I'm okay with it and
I'll vote for it. I'll see what you, my fellow members, say. So Okay, Ken. Um, yeah, I agree. I mean, you could just put a mat there and vote, you know, all parties can put their one pair of shoes
there, whatever. But, but I think it's Yeah, I'm good with this. I I would vote yes on this. Y John, thank you, Madam Chair. I I think at first look I was against this because it was,00 ft and it didn't have a common area. Uh, you know, and that's why we
hold the meeting, right? We drill down into this a little, it looks like the space is more on the 950 side or 978, I guess. And even though maybe to the letter of the law, this entrance mudroom
area um isn't really considered shared space, but to me it somewhat is. So, I'm kind of okay with us uh foregoing that requirement, and special permit gives us a lot of latitude to do that. So based on those two items uh that the applicant
did say they would take a condition if I heard them correctly that the uh efflow would be no larger than just say just say 980. Call it just call it 980 980. Uh I I based on those two
factors um I would vote in favor of this. Okay. And I I would vote in favor of this as well. Um, I think the extra square footage is because it's already it's the existing floor plan. Um, so that it's not like you're constructing
one that's an oversized one. I would prefer prefer not to have the door downstairs, but I understand that people want privacy and I I am voting for this um on one hand because there isn't a door upstairs. So there really is um it
doesn't lend itself as much to being two separate um apartments. So I will I would vote for this as well. Would you like a motion? Yes, please. Madame Chair, I move that uh we accept
the application for 25 Delaware A docket number 25-5101 to issue a special permit under section 9.2. 2 A and D to construct an extended family living area within the
existing basement that does not comply with the 750 ft maximum or the communal shared space provision and that this EFL will not exceed a square footage of 980 square
ft. Adjacent properties would not be adversely impacted. The increased dimensions and lack of shared space would not be detrimental to the public good. It would not substantially deviate from the intent or purpose of the bylaw.
I'll second that. All in favor? I. Any opposed? It passes. Good luck. Good luck. Hope project goes well, Madam Chair. Motion to adjurnn. Second. All in favor? I.
Good night. Thank you.