Okay. Seven. Good to go. Okay. Uh good evening everyone and uh welcome to the this evening's Davis zoning board of appeals. Uh we are now in session. I would ask uh that you please take a
moment to uh silence your uh mobile devices or cell phones so we're not interrupted. Uh I'll start by introducing our board members. Down to my right is uh Becky Kilbornne. Uh, one of our alternates, uh, Karine Doerty. Our clerk tonight is Ken Scholes,
myself, John Bower as the chair. Uh, to my left is Ken Jaron, and, uh, to my far left is, uh, Chris Dembowski. And from our planning staff, our planning director, uh, Mr. Brian Sakilli. Um,
I'll take a minute just uh to explain our process. Uh, the clerk will read, uh, your case. um into the record. I would ask that at that point the applicants go to the podium uh announce who you are. Uh tell us what you'd like
to do. Uh from there uh once you're complete with your presentation, I'll bring it back to the board. The board will ask questions of you. Um, and from that point, uh, once we have finished asking our questions, we will open it up
to the public to make comments or ask questions through the chairman. Um, once we've finished with public uh, comment, uh, we'll come back to the board and we'll deliberate and, uh, based on those deliberations, you'll get a, um, a
feeling of which way the board's going and we'll give you your options at that point. Um, and with that said, uh, members, we have been in in receipt of minutes dated, uh, we have three sets of minutes tonight. We have, uh, minutes from
October 6th, uh, October 20th, and from our last meeting on November 10th. Um, if I could get a motion on those minutes. >> Motion to approve. >> And a second. >> Okay, >> I got a second for Ken. I got a motion
and a second. Any further discussion? All in favor? I >> opposed. Very good. Um, and with that said, uh, we just have two new cases tonight and we have one continued case. And Mr. Clerk, if we could start with our first continued case.
>> Thank you, Mr. Chair. Our first case is 153 Andover Street. This is Route 114A zoning district. Uh, request a special permit to allow for a contractor storage yard to be operated at the address listed above. Additionally, the applicant requests two storage
containers to be placed on the property for more than 180 days. The request is made by Interstate Property Management Care of the Owner, Presa Abru LLC, Docket 25-5112. >> Hi, good evening. >> Good evening, Mr. Chairman, members of
the board. For the record, my name is Anthony Cogiano, 310 Lincoln Avenue Sus. Um, a couple of things have changed since I first came to the board. Uh, we are no longer requesting a contractor's yard at the site. We're just simply requesting two storage containers. Um, I
had met with um, Mr. Zeli, Mr. Cassidy here at town hall and we discussed the not having a need for the contractors yet. We're not going to have any heavy equipment on site. Um, the tenants that park there are all tenants of the building. Um they all have office space
there and this is simply the storage of their vehicles on the property. The the containers would um contain um lawnmowers and uh equipment for the con for the um landscape contractor that rents from us. Um I had a couple other
landscape contractors that were on the property that their leases expired and I I did not renew them. They weren't keeping the area clean. Um, and I've since since the first time I was here, I have a healthy relationship with the neighbors um that were here that night.
Uh, anytime there's a concern, they call me, I come right up there and take care of it. There's been some dumping of trash in the property. Um, I seem to have a good handle on that. I have someone that goes out there and checks on a daily basis. Um, we've had
some vehicles on the property that, um, I've had removed. I think the property as of today looks much better than it ever has in the backyard. And uh I walked the the area along the the brook behind Lowe's today and and took some trash out of there, but uh nothing
compared to what was happening before. We we've curbed the homeless problem that was there. They're all moved on and uh I think we're in pretty good standing today. But have any questions for me? >> Very good. Well, that thank you. Uh I just I know it's been a few meetings
since you've been in. can't remember quite frankly when the last time I know we had a date uh issue the last time we called this case but if you could just maybe walk us through I know uh and I'm going from memory I believe there was an issue with uh some fencing
uh was that problem corrected >> the fencing problem hasn't been corrected I would like to know which >> yeah so that's actually not um it's separate to this so right now Lowe's is um actually in the process of getting a
contractor to get that fence installed, but there will be a fence installed and it's been in conjunction with town hall and then the condo association. So, we're all on this um we're on an email uh >> group chat >> group chat if you will. Uh but yeah, not
at all. But >> so the fence is the responsibility of Lowe's. >> It's actually all the it's actually a decent it's not just Lowe's. >> Okay. So, it's all four condoed people that are there. >> I don't know how it's split up. I'm not going to But but we are >> But it's not this applicant.
>> Uh, not that I'm aware of. Uh, no. >> Okay. Um, and I'll save my questions. I think I had some additional ones about kind of where some some of the things were at on the property. But I'll I'll uh turn it over to the board and I'll save mine for the end if they don't get asked.
>> Uh, so I'll start with you, Becky. >> Okay. Sorry, this is really hard to I >> I know >> it's it's not it's really >> uh faint. >> Zoom in on it, I guess. >> Yeah, even if I zoom in, I mean, then we then we'll I mean, you can It's just quite faint. >> I can come up >> where Well, I'd rather you not cuz then
we lose you on the cable broadcast. But bottom line is I think there's the two trailers and those are the locations of them. Correct. >> Correct. >> This one and this. >> And that's what the ask is board members. They ask is do we want to allow
uh these two storage containers uh to be um allowed to be there more than 180 days. I think the ask is to have them year round. Correct. >> Correct. And and those just to clarify because you can't really see it through
the picture. They are behind the office building. They're not visible to anybody except the tenants in the building. >> Those are behind the office building. So >> yeah. So if you look at the office building the way if you're coming from the street they're to the left side which would be the back of the office
building and the only >> look like they're in the middle of the parking lot. All right. >> No. >> Okay. >> What's that? >> A laser. It won't work. We can try it. Usually typically >> you come and point on the screen. >> Try it. I would try it. But some
depending upon the screen. Yeah. Some screens it works and some doesn't. So this is the office building here. This is how you come from the main street. >> And these parking spaces are behind the office building. >> Yes. >> Okay.
>> So the area with Lowe's is back to this side. This would be our office building. This is our trash area. And this is this would be there's a car dealership here. This is between us and the car dealership. All buffer of trees in that
area. and fencing I believe too. Correct. >> The fencing needs to be fixed. >> That's where it's broken. Yes. Okay. If I could have you back at the mic. Uh Becky, questions. >> Okay. So, I was there today. Um
I did see some trailers back there and contractors backing up vehicles with trailers on them. >> So, through you, Mr. chair. Are we going to is that going to be allowed all of that?
>> So, those are so because they have offices in uh though because those landscaping companies have offices in the building, they are allowed to park their vehicles with trailers in this parking lot. That that that is allowed. Yes, that is already allowed. Period.
>> Okay. Okay. >> Regardless of what happens this evening. >> Okay. All right. And then um what about the boat that's back there? The boat is a tenant that's been in the building, uh, programmable devices. The gentleman's name is John Punchniaak. He's been there for over 20 years, and
he needed a place to park his boat till December 1st because it's going to be shrink wrapped and left at the, um, the marina. But he just has one more week with the boat, and then it has to be taken up. >> Okay. Um, and where all the buses are
and everything, is that your property? >> That is. and that I had no idea that property belonged to us until I came to the last meeting. That's where the homeless encampment was, if you will. So, I took um a bus company. They have
it's a transportation company. They're a tenant of ours. I let them park four big buses over there to deter from anything else from parking over there. I think it works out well. I I talked to the neighbors. They actually liked it. They have all the small vans that park around the water um to try to deter any of the
people from >> there were a lot of buses there. >> Yeah, there's four there's four big ones that take two spaces actually. That's one company. Another company has three and then all the little ones are vans. Um that's transportation company too. They all rent for me.
>> Okay. Thank you. >> Uh Karine. Um my question is actually the my first one is to um the planning director. May I ask? Go >> ahead. >> Um do we have to like renotice this since it's not um what they're asking
for isn't what is listed in the advertisement? >> No. So uh luckily because their ask is getting more restrictive. We we don't have to renotice this. Uh it doesn't need to be readvertised because of that reason. So you can always whatever you
ask for, whatever the legal description is here, you can always So that's why we can still move forward tonight is because they're asking for something less than the original ask. If they're asking for anything more, basically the hearing is over and we would have to readvertise because you can't give the
relief that that they're asking for. But you can always give a portion of a relief that they're asking for, which is what they're asking. >> Uh okay. And just to be clear, Karine, they're here under request of special permit, >> right? For the storage containers, correct?
>> For the and one piece of it was for a contractor's storage app, which he's now saying he's going to withdraw. And the request is just for storage containers. >> Just the containers. Yep. >> Okay. Now, um, with regard to the storage containers,
um, how many tenants do you have that will be using these storage containers? >> Two. One, uh, the bigger storage container is for Proscape landscaping and the smaller one is for Clean Freak. Um, but just two tenants use those.
>> Okay. Okay. So if these tenants move out, what happens to those storage containers? Would they go away? >> They'll go with them because they belong to them. >> Okay.
>> But not Oh, hold on though. >> Cuz if we issue a special permit, this stays with the property. No, it's not a variance. >> Variances would stay with the property. Special per Yeah, they're conditional use permits. So you can you could you could say when they're done, but I mean
it sounds like it's >> naturally. Yeah. >> But here's but here's the problem. The person that is requesting them is the property owner, not the tenants. So as long as they own the property, they could have those units there. They can have the storage.
>> I would say that you are. Yeah. So correct. So I agree. If the let's say these two tenants move out, he would you are still giving him the right to put two containers in the same loca in the same location, the same size, whatever it is he's asking for. Now, the owner
can keep operating those whether or not those tenants are there or not. So, you you would be giving him that permission. Yes. >> Can we condition it on the tenants that are there now? If and if >> that's up to our Okay, that's fine with
me. It's up to us whether we want to give it to them is what I'm saying. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Thanks, Karine. Uh Ken, >> thank you, Mr. Chair. Um I just had a question about the fence which we've resolve that that's in the >> Well, it sounds like these are two just
there's a whole other very large issue about a perimeter fence that's going to stop people from um essentially destroying this wetland, right, >> with trash. Um, there was another small issue I guess on your specifically on your property where there's a hole or
something that was that's unrelated to that. So I don't >> that is unrel Okay, that's what I'm saying. >> So and you said you're going to have that fixed. >> If you would like a fence there, I'll put a fence there. >> Well, I think Oh, sorry. Go ahead. >> Well, I think it's there's a fence there, but it's kind of >> There's one there that's pretty beat up.
I was planning on just getting rid of it, but if you'd like another one installed, I will install one. >> I think it's probably a good idea. >> That's no problem. And you said you have a handle on the trash situation. >> 100%. >> No other questions. Thanks. >> Thank you, Ken. Kenj, >> so you have um the long gray um box uh
trailer box that's like 45 ft >> correct >> long. And then the other one is the one the smaller one with M1. >> Yes. >> Okay. Um what about that box truck, unregistered box truck that is still there on the property?
I had it towed and I found out that it belonged to a tenant. I had to bring it back. So, a tenant does have it. Um, if you want it off the property because it's unregistered, I have no problem towing it out of there again. >> Well, it's >> I put it back. It's against the law. >> It's unregistered. So, it really can't
be there unless you have permission from the police chief. And then that's only like 30 days out of whack. >> I have no problem towing it out of there tomorrow. I'll just tell him that that was what I was >> condition to remove the box truck. Yeah. Well, it has >> This is the box truck that's on It's on the other side of the building.
>> The condition he's got to he's got to remove. It's the law. >> No problem. I have it taken out. >> Okay. Yeah, I I have no other questions. >> Thank you, Chris. >> My only question was for the fence, and we've already covered that, so I'm all set. Thank you. >> Okay. Can I ask a question on the fence?
Is there a certain fence that you want there? I know the last time you >> Well, I I think Sorry. I think that it makes the most sense if you're talking about fencing of any kind to coordinate >> through the planning department. >> Well, yes, because we already we already have a whole fencing plan going and that
if we So, I'll I would say that we >> Well, let's say it this way. So, it sounds to me and Brian correct me if I'm wrong that uh not just Lowe's, but um you know, the four I think it's four significant tenants correctly correct on
this property. Brian 153 there four significant tenants. There's the Lowe's. There's this office building. There's uh group one >> and then and then one. Yeah, correct. >> And the uh restaurant out in the front. >> Um >> and there actually might even be one
more. >> Okay. So, whatever the amount of tenants are, it sounds like there's a works there's a plan in the works through our planning department to come up with some type of perimeter fencing. Sounds like the fence that we all see that I've seen and that uh Ken was
asking about and I think Chris was also going to ask about uh is particularly behind your building and it's uh damaged right now and has a hole in it. So I think our initial ask was well gez we want that corrected. I think um to
Brian's point, Mrs. This is a Kelly's point. Um, I would like to say, hey, you fixed that, but it might be counterproductive to the whole campus fence that's trying to be put in. It sounds like, if I'm saying this right,
Brian. Um, so I would say uh the board's ask if you're granted would be to work in conjunction with the planning department on a fence plan that either a removes that or fixes it.
>> Whatever the wish, whatever the wish of the planning department is. Um, and you know, I I am not comfortable at all with issuing um a blank check on these storage containers. So, I would want
defined sizes, and that's not saying I'm going to grant it, but to just call a storage container. I think this board's learned in probably the hard way in the past um that storage containers come in many shapes and sizes. So, do you know the
actual sizes of the two trailers you're asking for or storage containers? >> One is 45 by8. The other is 30 by 8. >> 45 by 8 and 30 by 8. So, you'll take a condition that these would be the only size storage containers if granted. >> Correct.
>> And then I I think someone asked this, but you would also take a condition to have the boat removed by December 1st. >> Absolutely. >> Okay. Which is only a week from now. >> Yep. >> Okay. and the box >> and the box truck removed and these would all be conditions and then um
I think just to understand the the the shared spaces with the transportation companies. So there's multiple transportation companies and those parking spots where they're parking are allotted to your piece of this condoed
uh piece of property at 153 and over. Correct. Is that correct? Okay. Um, and I don't believe I have any other questions. Uh, so at this point, uh, board members, any additional questions? If not, I'll open this up to the public,
and we're here on 153 Andover Street. Um, if anyone would like to be heard or make a comment. If there's anyone online, Brian, um, no, I do not see anybody in the public here. So, uh, board members, we'll come back and,
uh, we will deliberate on this. This is, uh, for 153 and over. Uh, Becky, >> um, I would approve this with the conditions that we talked about. Um, that there be no more than two trailers. one uh
45 ft by 8t, the other 30 ft by 8 ft. Um I would like to see those uh identified to specific tenants and if those tenants leave that the trailers leave. Um that
um the unregistered box truck be removed this week, let's say. um um that the boat be removed by 121 and that the fence be repaired. That's what I have. >> Thanks, Becky. And and just before I go on to you, Karine, um so um Mr.
Kaglaniano. Uh the request to just add to make sure that you're clear is to that these storage containers um upon departure of the uh is it two separate um contractors that use them. So one uses one and one uses the other.
>> Correct. >> Upon their departure or end of lease that these containers would then go away. So you're clear on that. Okay. Thank you, Karine. Um I would I would vote for this if we have the conditions um as Becky just
stated. So we would know need to know um who owns the 45 by8 which tenant and which one owns the 30 by8 and when they vacate. So obviously they probably wouldn't vacate at the same time. So whoever vacates first theirs is removed
within 30 days. Whoever vacates second theirs is removed within 30 days. And then there's no storage containers back there. >> Correct. >> Together with the other conditions. >> Thanks, Karine. Ken, >> I will vote for this with the with those conditions. >> Thanks, Ken. Kenj,
>> I'm in favor with those um same conditions. Thanks. And um Chris, >> uh in favor as well with the conditions that have been set forth. >> All right. Um and uh Becky's an alternate on the case. So, um Mr.
Um, K, I want to make sure I'm saying your name. >> Kagliano. >> Kagliano. Thank you. Uh, I am going to be the stick in the mud here. Um, I am not in favor of this. I think our bylaw is pretty clear. Uh, 180 days. Um, and I
don't I don't see a reason to to grant this. Um, quite frankly, but you do have the votes. Um, so it will pass. But I just think if we're going to start to change this in our town, then I think that's something that should go through town meeting. And um I I'm not
comfortable with uh granting this. So with that said, board members, uh can I get a motion, please? >> Can you get the specific tenants and >> and we're going to need all those conditions? >> We need the specific tenants, though. So who owns the 45 by8 >> proscape landscaping?
>> Proscape landscaping. Yes. >> And who owns the 30 by8? >> Clean Freak. >> Clean Freak. >> Clean Freak. >> You want to ask when their leases are up? >> Um, you don't know when their leases are
up, do you? Well, because they'll probably renew them, >> right? I mean, >> Proscape definitely Clean Freak to be determined. >> Okay. Doesn't matter. I mean, we can leave it, I guess, open-ended. When they vacate, they have to remove them. >> Yeah.
I can forward the board a copy of the lease to if if you'd like it. >> Well, I can send it into the planning department. >> Okay. >> Karine, are you my motion person? >> I will. I'm just >> You got all that? >> I'm trying to make sure I have it all. I'm going to list these and conditions
at the end. um motion to grant a special permit for two storage containers to be placed on the property um for more than 180 days and that adjacent properties would not be adversely impacted. The proposal
would not be detrimental to the public good and would not substantially deviate from the intent or purpose of the bylaw with conditions attached. One, the box um car shall be removed from the property by December 1st. truck, I believe.
>> I'm sorry, box truck. >> Yep. >> Um shall be removed um from the property by December 1st, 2025. The um recreational boat will be removed from the property by December 1st, 2025.
in that um the two storage containers that are on the property now um one is 45 um by 8 and it is rented um the unit is rented by Proscape Landscaping.
The other the other storage container is 30 by8 and it is um it is rented by >> I think they're owned by >> I mean owned owned by Clean Freak um is that an LLC? >> Yes.
>> Clean Freak LLC. Upon termination of their lease and before vacating the premises, the storage containers shall be removed. And one more condition uh which would be the fence to work with the planning
department on replacement or or uh repair. And the the the applicant agrees to work with the um planning department to replace and restore the fence at the
perimeter of the property. >> Is that correct? Is that the fence at the perimeter? >> That sounds >> okay. Okay, I've got a motion. Uh, could I get a second, please? >> I'll second. >> Any further discussion? All in favor? >> I opposed. I
>> uh the motion passes and uh good luck. I hope it works out. >> Thank you. Happy holiday. >> I almost did it. I almost did it again. I almost threw out my homework. Um Mr. Clerk, uh if we could go on to our first uh case of
>> Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Our next case is three Lauren Road. This is R2 zoned. Uh request a special permit under section 9.2 of the zoning bylaw in order to build a conforming extended family living area on a lot which is
non-conforming due to size where 20,000 square ft is required and 9,640 square feet is supplied. Request is made by Scott Harris care of John Parsons. Docket 25-5125. >> Is anybody here on three Lorraine or
Lorraine Road? >> That's >> I guess not. >> And no one's online either. >> Okay. Um actually, Mr. Zelli, I guess we can continue this to our next meeting. But before we do, um, and I I'm just trying to understand, um,
if I could ask you a question, which is I don't understand how any work's going on at this property because it is a nonconforming, and I would think that requires anything being done to it to come before this board. Is that right? >> No. So, uh, if a property is
non-conforming, then the only thing that's non-conforming is the frontage or the square footage. you can build a conforming addition by right. So that's what they're doing. So they are building a conforming addition meaning within within their set you know within their setbacks. >> So if it's only uh lot size and frontage
is that what you said? >> Yeah. If you build a conforming addition it's as soon as you start as soon as when you're non-conforming due to a setback issue is when you have to come to the board. >> Okay. >> But you can build a conforming. >> So they came in and pulled a permit for this addition and that's what the war seemed >> right. wanted they wanted to get the
foundation in before winter and if they didn't get the effl they or basically if they didn't get the kitchen but they wanted to basically get it in they had you know they had the time and resources to do it and they they wanted to do it so no funny business they're doing it
they're trying to get the efflua if they don't get the efflua then they don't get that kitchen but they're still can obviously create living space >> but I don't know why they're not here >> all right so you so there was no correspondence to say they >> I was assuming they were going to be here >> okay Yeah. >> Um All right. Well, board members, uh I
guess >> we can always swing back around. >> Yeah, we can swing back. >> Yeah. Go to >> And if not, we'll uh we'll continue it to our December 1st meeting. >> Okay. Uh with that said, uh Mr. Clerk, on to our next >> our next case is 22 Burley Farm Road.
This is R2 zone. Request a special permit under section 9.2 two of the uh zoning bylaw in order to build an oversized over 750 square feet on a lot which is non-conforming due to the front and side setbacks as well as size where
20,000 square ft is required and 18,117 square ft is supplied. The applicant also requests a finding for the side setback encroachment at 13.1 ft where 15 ft is required. Request is
made by Ralph and Tracy Khitri, care of William Nolan. Uh, docket 25-5127. >> Good evening. You look familiar to me. >> Good evening. Uh, for the record, Bill Nolan, uh, Seavoy Nolan Architects. Um,
do we have the plans? >> Uh, yep. Just a sec. >> Our computer moves a little slow. >> Yeah, I'm right there with it. So, while he's pulling up, I can do the introductions. Uh so um I already introduced myself. I'm here representing
um Ralph and Tracy Cletry. They're in the audience here and their son who's not. He's he's part of the um this process. Um so they've recently purchased um Ralph's um parents house at 22 Burley Road uh and uh plan to do a
renovation and move in after. Um the renovation is largely an interior renovation, small addition that's conforming and not the reason why we're here tonight. Um, in addition to their renovation, they are looking to put an efflua um for their son Peter in the
back of the house. Um, and uh, uh, we're asking for a slightly oversized um, efflua with regards to the square footage and it's also on a part of the property that's already non-conforming with the side setback. We're looking to
um, put it on that side of the property that has a as a non-conforming side setback. Um, we're we're not making the the the side setback any any worse than it currently is. Um, okay. So, now you've got the plans up.
This is the existing uh conditions plan. Yeah. This is the basement of the existing condition of the existing house. And what we're looking to do is it's a an existing five- bedroomedroom house. Um, and the garage, sorry, the uh the Efla is going to go behind the
garage which is at the top left corner of the screen. If you could go to the next slide. This is the existing house. Uh you can see the two top bedrooms there. Um we're going to be looking to make use of that space. Um Ralph and Tracy don't need five bedrooms in the house. So that's
actually going to form part of what we're um doing for the um EFLA if if granted. move on to the existing photos. That's a stop from Burley Street, the front facade. Sorry. Uh Burley Road,
Bley Farm Road. Sorry. I used to live on Burley Street. Burley Farm Road. Uh next. So, this is the driveway side. Uh you can see the garage is at the lower level. I just wanted to point out because it's one of the reasons why
we're asking for slightly oversized is that the existing main floor is about a half a story is about a full story up um from the the back of the house. Um so you can see the garage there and then above it is that right bedroom. Um all
the way to the end is that right bedroom that's going to be incorporated into the efflu and become the kitchen. Next slide please. That's the back uh back of the house and that's where we're looking to extend out. Keep going.
Another shot. Go ahead. Okay. Here's the site plan here. Um you can see the lightly hatched area, the shaded area. That's the proposed efflu. Um you can see the the shape of the um uh the lot uh knife points away from the
um from the street facade. Um the uh so that's really the only place that we could we could add this um and connect it back to the building. We did try to um the original plan was to come out straight off the back. Um but but um
I I thought that that was it that was going to make the existing side setback greater than what currently exists there. So, I recommended that we uh pull it back. This is about a two-ft offset, 3-ft offset in the back. Um that brings
our uh closest uh um property u foundation wall to uh to just over um uh 13 ft from the existing property line. Uh, I just want to make a note too that that number on there is um
to the to the the wall and I know in Danver uh this was my fault. I I forgot that Danverse um uses the eaves as their as their dimension. Um we're proposing a standard 1ft eve on this um to kind of match the addition. So that number would
actually be 12 which is still under >> 12t one. >> Yeah, 12t1. Um that number referenced on the plan is to the foundation or to the to the wall. Um but to the eve with a one foot eve would still be under the existing side setback of 108.
>> Okay. >> And if you keep going. Okay. So this is the basement plan of the proposed um so bec I mentioned in the in the um the photograph how the um
we're matching we're using some existing um square footage from the existing building which is on the f the existing first floor. So now we need to match that and that puts our building up um about a full story up from grade at that point. So just by by byproduct we're
going to end up with the basement in that space. um just because it's just the way that it is. So, we're we're proposing to open that up to the existing garage and use that as a shared space. Um so, this would be the foundation for the new ELA and as as a
result of its of the height elevations. Um we're going to end up with a basement space down there. They weren't really looking for it, but again, it's it's it's part of the the deal. Okay. and the proposed plan. Um here um
there's the renovation plan. So if you want to look at at their house, again, we're not here for that, but the small little addition um where the existing porch um in front of the kitchen or towards the rear of the kitchen um that's an existing screen uh an existing
covered porch that we're going to enclose, extend out a little bit and uh create a sun room. That's really the only addition on the proper house. And again, it's by right, but I wanted to focus on the hatched area, which is the EFLA. So, the two rooms, the one bedroom
to the left, um there is is the exact um same bedroom. We're not proposing to make any changes there other than the the laundry closet. Uh the other bedroom to the right is going to be converted into the um into the proposed kitchen.
And the addition that we're proposing, which is roughly 314 square ft, um is going to contain a pretty modest living room and a split entry. And here's the two reasons why we're asking for 50 square ft over the required um 750. Is
one, we're um we're making use of existing um structure in their house. And that defines the bedroom size without us changing it. And to some extent the kitchen size where if this was a brand new addition that we're attaching on the back of it, we'd have a
little bit more control. We could make the kitchen and bedroom a little bit smaller and still provide a decent amount of living area. Um but the bigger one is the um the height difference. We have um a full story that we need to get
um from grade at that point up. and uh a ridge. Some of the earlier proposals, we had an an exterior staircase that was um basically a full set of stairs on the outside and um the Cletries weren't weren't too happy about that. And what
we decided on as a as a good compromise is a split entry. Um where we'd have a couple stairs outside, you'd enter into a landing and then you could go up into the new um efla. Um and that's the other reason why that that landing area that
we created to create that split entry is about 60 square ft, which is, you know, 10 square feet over the additional square footage that we're asking for. Um, so we thought it was a um, you know, a good case for it. Um, the split entry
will uh, you you'll walk up into a um, there's a driveway, a set of stairs, and then a small little plinth. The other thing, too, is that there's not a lot of um, area um, on on that plinth to to create a stair. So, you know, putting a large staircase up there is just going
to make things tight. There's also a um, a a grape vine that um, Ralph's father planted. And so there's some uh sentimental value to to maintaining that. >> Okay. >> So you'd walk up into the um a few stairs up into a landing. There would be a coat closet and then an interior stair
to get Peter up to his his space. And then there's also a staircase down to the um to the basement. The basement is intended to be unfinished um unheated um just shared common space between um the
garage and uh this this entry here. Uh again the bedroom stays the same and then the other bedroom is going to be converted into a small um kitchen. And then there's one other common area um that you can see in the corridor separating um the proper house with the
efflua. There's a small little vestibule there. Um that's common area and we did that so that um by accident one couldn't just open up a door and and walk into the space without so there's a little bit of privacy there. Um you have to go through two doors. that's a lot more
intentional to get it. So there's it also fulfills the requirement of having um some common common space. We have interior common space upstairs and common space downstairs with the garage of the basement. Um with that I have some some pictures
of what the addition will look like. It's pretty pretty um modest. Uh you can keep going. That's just the front. Really nothing there. But you can see here the extension. Um you can see the little
plinth that the the the um uh addition is going to be built up on. And the next one, these are just the elevations. Um you can see on that bottom image the extension that we're proposing.
And I think we have two more elevations. And that pretty much wraps up my um my presentation. Um um I'm h happy to answer any questions. >> Okay. Thank you, Mr. Null. And um just to get a clarification before I send it
out to the board. So on page >> Oh, sorry. >> Yeah, go ahead. >> We're also in receipt of um some neighbors. We have three neighbors that are signed a letter of support. >> Yeah, if you want to give them, we can we'll read it into the record. Um, thank you.
>> Thanks, Bill. Uh, my question is, and on your proposed basement plan, you have a square footage chart there. >> Yep. >> Um, and it says proposed 630 square ft and you're asking for over 750. So, and
I I know you referenced this uh 60 extra square ft due to an entrance area. So, just uh I guess clear that up for the board. I don't understand. We didn't count the basement for the garage cuz it's shared. It's opened up to the garage. So they're um they're sharing it. So I don't believe that that's
counted against the off. >> So it's >> you have two different numbers. You say you're asking for 800, but you only put in 660. So is it >> 630 in your plan here, but you're referencing 800. So I'm trying to understand is this over 750 or is it
>> Yeah, it's 800. Um so the so the upper level plan, um it's 800 square feet. um on the first floor. I'm not counting the basement or I'm not counting that little small little vestibule. >> So, this chat that says 315 for first floor is an error.
>> It's possible. Let me just uh >> it's this page here. >> Yeah, >> it's listed here, too. >> So, I just uh I think some math uh I'm just not an oversized EPA, then we don't need to give you relief, right? >> It is. It's it's 800 square f feet. It's
an 800 foot efflu. Okay. >> Okay. So, Okay. So, the basement. Oh, so you're looking under the proposed. >> Yes. Um, >> I see 315 basement. I see first floor 315 for a total of 630. >> Yeah, that that should have been actually removed from this. These these
plans are the schematic plans that we used to. >> All right. So, so disregard the >> Yeah, you can disregard that. >> The ask is for 800 square ft and that does not include the basement. What that is is the addition is 315 square ft. Y >> so basement addition top addition we've
added effectively 630 ft to their house with this move but this isn't really applicable to this conversation. This conversation is uh allowing us to do an efflow on a non-conforming lot with a non-conforming side yard situation of
and the efflow when you count in the the additional square footage from the existing house total is 800. >> Okay. So if I were to draw a box around what you highlighted on the floor plan that is 800 square ft. >> Correct. The the hatched area is 800.
>> Very good. That's all I wanted to know. And I'll uh open it up for question questions. We'll start with you Chris. Uh, no questions. Thank you. >> And, uh, Ken J. >> Um, Mr. Chairman, can I ask uh, Mr. Z? >> Yeah, sure. Go ahead. >> Um, Mr. Zakali, so um, can shared space
be an unfinished um, so a non-living area in the basement? >> It has to be habitable. >> Yeah. So, it sounds like it's unfinished. So, it's not counted as living. >> So, that does not count towards a common area. >> Okay. >> He's showing the second common area. >> Yeah. So, can you explain the second the
common area upstairs? >> Yeah. So, there's a vest there's a door >> that that connects um the two spaces and rather than having a single door um so that again they can walk in and uninvertedly walk in um to each one. We
created a vestibule there. So, there's a set of two doors. So, there's a conscious effort of opening one door, knocking and coming in. And it's small but it is shared. Uh so it it's typically so this is this is
a hallway I guess. >> So that is that's typically not what the shared space is like the not that's not the intention of the shared space. >> Okay. There's not a lot of definitions
on what the shared space is but good. >> Uh true. >> Yeah. >> Um but it might even say not a hallway. No. Um, but I would say that we typically the the the standard that we use is mud room, laundry room, places where people
have to go to where it's where it actually is shared communal habitable space. um where this is from what it sounds like you're saying the reason for it is for the exact
opposite meaning it's for privacy. >> All right. Well, you your question was answered, correct? >> Yes. Thank you. >> And do you have additional questions? >> Uh no, I do not. >> Okay, Ken. >> Um I really don't have any questions.
the the tenant for the efflow will park in the back of the building. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, that's all. I don't have any other questions. >> Thank you, Karine. >> Um I just have a couple. If you look at the new plan, um, in between bedroom three and bedroom four, which is in the
EFLA, Y, >> there is the washer and dryer. Is that used by both the the people in the main home and the EFLA? Cuz if it is, then if people like say someone coming out of bedroom three or bedroom two walk down
the hall to where the washer and dryer is, it looks like everybody uses that same space. >> Yeah. Um, so the in so they have a larger laundry room downstairs in their basement. Um, but we in part of our design process, we were trying to get laundry upstairs and just didn't have
enough space to do it. So, they will likely be using this from time to time because it's a lot more convenient. >> Okay. >> I'm sorry. There there is another It's a little hard. There's another washerdryer right across from bedroom 3. >> Oh, yeah. No, it's right. That's where we did. >> There is a washerd dryer right there.
>> The intent of that was >> right there. Right there. Yeah. >> Oh, I see. I see. >> And the intent was really for Peter to have his own. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I didn't see the washer and dryer there. Um and and just I want to confirm a couple things
about the outside. So, in the original building, you have this porch that runs like along the side there, and it looks like from the drawings that's going to be removed. Correct. Correct. >> Okay.
>> Part of it. There is a part that's going to stay to the um on the right on the page. You can you can see the the gable coming off. >> That's that's the um addition that we're doing. We're enclosing the existing deck. It's actually coming out a little
bit, but to the left of that on that image, there's still part of the open deck uh for the balcony. >> Okay. But but it but it's not going to look like this. >> It's be like half. >> It will look like that. Yeah. Okay. Okay, that's all I have. Thank you. >> Thank you, Becky.
>> Um, I just have a question about the driveway. Is it a shared driveway or how? >> Uh, no. It it it's not a shared driveway, but they do connect. >> It's kind of odd the way that >> they do they connect because it's so close, but it's not technically a shared driveway.
>> Okay. Okay. >> You get along with the neighbors. Okay. from the neighbors before and this time too. >> Okay. >> So, it's like backing in. >> It's very wide. Yeah. >> Okay. I That's all I have. >> Yeah. Bill, I I I have the same question
as uh Ken Jay here. I I think, you know, I think this plan looks okay, but I I just don't really see a shared uh a shared area that I think this board would >> feel comfortable as a shared area. So, >> yeah, >> I understand the intent of wanting to have
>> separate laundry rooms, but um you know, we can't count the basement as a shared space, and we and we really can't count the hallway. >> So, >> so >> those regulations are made to to prevent um this turning into a second family,
right, on a house. >> Well, an apartment. >> An apartment of a non relative, right? >> Right. which is pretty I mean we could we could uh we could remove the uh second door there and just have a a a connection between there um the two the two units. I think this is a clear
example of you know we actually talked about doing a uh an ADU >> for the new regulations. >> I saw that on one of the plants. Yeah. >> Yeah. that was and and um >> but that would require separate utilities and >> but even beyond that it it's I was still
saying that you know you should strongly consider it because it makes the the the property more valuable but that's not what they want to do. It's they want to move their son in there and have their you know their son live with them provide at least until he gets his you know start starts a family or something.
So, this is, I think, a pretty obvious example of them not trying to make it an apartment on there. Um, whatever we can do to to um, you know, assure the board that it is the true intention. >> Well, I'm just wondering, is there a way that we can make a uh, you know, a
shared laundry room there? >> Um, >> I think he meets the >> Sorry, >> excuse me. But I if you read that I think he meets that what the language of the zoning is. >> Let me change glasses.
>> Far away over there back focals >> far away. >> Look at D >> page 45 of the of the PDF. >> Internal access and circulation from the brain. >> Mal shared habitable space. Well, >> sorry. >> That's still it's still up for
interpretation, right? >> I'm in the right spot. Well, I I would I would say it is up for interpretation. I would say that the way that this board and the boards before it have interpreted it has been some type of >> mud room, laundry room, >> whatever. Just a space that you have to
go through to to kind of live your life. Meaning that you you know it's it's you know like a Yeah. A garage can't count, but it's typically that Yeah. mud room, laundry room, something. Well, I guess my it's more of a comment, Bill, but I I'm not comfortable with the second
door, and I'm certainly not comfortable with this as a shared. >> We can definitely take out this that was something that I thought was good for them. I don't think they care one way or the other. >> Well, again, with it family, I >> Yeah, wanting privacy, but you know, it goes against the the spirit, I guess, of
the EFLA. >> Um, all right. Well, with that said, I I don't have any additional questions. Are there any additional from the board? >> I I have one question. Yeah, sure. >> And um I hesitate to even say this because it's it's um it might be a
little bit of a loophole, but if we were to finish the basement downstairs and turn that into a room that was shared, >> it's it's it meets all the requirements for having >> that you're upping your size. >> That's not a loophole, by the Yeah. But then you get into the oversized business.
>> Yeah. You're well over the 750 at that point, right? >> No, because it's true. >> None of the Sorry. None of the communal space counts. So it's Sorry. the I know it sounds like we're bumbling here, but ADU rags are different from Efla regs and so the in ADUs they do count that as
part of it but Efla >> correct >> he's correct in that that communal space don't we have or this board has um >> has done several where like it's like a living room it's just like a shared living room which is exactly kind of >> TV room family room
>> yeah where both have access to and that was it was great for everybody >> well I guess explain that to me So, how would uh unit one get to that um basement? Um from their unit, they would go through >> they'd have to go through the garage or through the efflow.
>> Yeah. >> But >> well, I'm I'm uh just one person on this board, so we'll uh we'll see how it goes. I guess um Mr. Clerk, if we could read in the letter of support. >> For the record, though, we don't want to do that. I I was kind of just making a point.
>> Yeah. No, understood. It doesn't materially change. >> To Mr. Selly's point, in in the past, our I would say 95% of our ELA applications have had a shared mud room, a shared laundry room, and that was kind of uh
maybe an unwritten rule by this board that that's what we expect to see on an effl plan. >> Okay. >> Uh go ahead, Mr. Clerk. >> Uh before I read this, Mr. Nolan, so this this letter says ADU, which is not correct. We're going Epha. All right.
And do we know the name these names of these three people? >> I can't read what their name is. >> First one is >> uh if you could sir if you're going to be heard please come to the mic and identify >> like a Donald Cody or something.
>> I can't remember his name. >> Donald Cody or >> Daniel >> Daniel Cody. They names >> Don Coutro please. Uh, and introduce yourself. >> Ralph Kitri, 14 Broad Street, moving to 22 Burley Farm Road.
>> Thank you, Mr. >> Geraldine Masterson. >> Like CSI detectives up here >> and Megan >> White. >> White. >> Okay. >> So, they're both sides of the house and across the street. >> Very good. Thank you, Mr.
>> Just so I can read their names correctly. >> Mr. Clerk, if you could read that letter and please. >> Thank you. We're in receipt of a letter. Uh the purpose of this letter is to inform that that uh our neighbors have shared with us the plans to create an effl on their property for their son. We understand the project requires a
special permit from the zoning board of appeals. We have reviewed all the proposed plans and images and feel that this project will not negatively affect the neighborhood in any way and lend our support to the project. Uh the first one is Donald Catro from One Mildred Road in
Danvers. Uh the second one is Gerald Dean Masterson from 20 Burley Farm Road in Dammers and the third is Megan White from 24 Burley Farm Road and Dammers. >> Thank you. Um at this point I'm going to
uh open it up to the public for public comment if somebody would like to be heard. Anyone? Anyone online? Brian? No. No. >> Okay. Um, and there's no further questions from I'll close it at this point. Any further
questions from the board. If not, we'll we will deliberate on 22 early code. And I started with you, Chris. What are your thoughts? I would be voting in favor for this
if that second door were to be removed. Okay. So, you're okay with this oversized and into the setback? >> Yes. Thank you. >> Um, Kenj, >> um, I definitely want that to be figured
out, the common area. So, I mean, if we are we talking about this second door? >> Uh, I think you would remove this door. >> So, there's still a door there, >> right? So that's technically I mean then
that's just a little hallway. So I I just think in the spirit of the the rule and and what we we go for usually on this board that that's not really a common area. So I I would not be in favor of we come up with a common area.
>> Thank you. Ken Ken J. >> Sorry, Ken. Sorry. >> I'm I'm in favor of this. I mean, I get it. We don't like the fact that that's maybe just, you know, just a
hallway. Um, but I think it's a modest I think it's fine. So, I'll vote for this. >> Okay. Thank you, Karine. >> Um, I I I agree. Like, I've been looking over the plans and I really can't find an
alternative for you to do here. Um, you know, the basement is is a large space, but you know, it's hard to access it from the EFLA space. Um, I would want that door to be removed.
And my guess is the reason why the washer and dryer is upstairs in that um, bathroom that's across from bedroom three is because you don't want to go downstairs to the basement. Is that correct? So, you want to eliminate that
one? >> Yeah. >> Okay. Okay. I I I guess if you take that second door out and you have access to the space and to the washer and dryer, whether you use it or whether you use the alternative
one, um you still have the ability to go in that way. So, if you remove that second door, I I would vote yes. >> Thank you, Karine and Becky. Um, I think this is a reasonable request
and I think that uh Mr. Nolan tried to design this as best he could to be reasonable on the site. Um, the zoning bylaws say it has to be communal or common space, which a hallway is communal or common space or shared space
and a hallway is shared uh space. So, I think it meets the guidelines of the zoning unless there's something I'm missing. So, >> okay, >> I would be in favor. >> Um, well, uh,
yeah, I again, uh, I go on what we've done in the past. Uh, I I do agree with Becky and Karine that um, you know, I think a lot of thought was put into the plan. Um, I'm not certain I really like this
hallway as a shared space, but um, I guess loosely defined it it it will suffice in this case. I would want the second door removed and uh, with that said, I would vote in favor of it. So you do have the votes to get the special
permit for an oversize and um an adjustment to the setback of 121 not 131 and I believe an oversize. Did we total it at 810 square ft or 800?
Um, it is I I technically technically I did preparing for this meeting I looked at it and I think it's actually 804 square feet, but I was just going to >> Okay, >> pull it back up. >> We'll say no more than 805 square ft. >> Sure.
>> Um, and with that said, uh, board members, could I get a motion, please? >> I make a motion to grant a special permit under section 9.2 2 in order to build an extended family living area EFLA on a lot which is non-conforming
due to front and side setbacks as well as size where 20,000 square ft is required and 18,117 square ft is supplied and that the exterior appearance of the structure is not substantially changing. The
structure remains res residential in nature. adjacent properties would not be adversely impacted. The proposal would not be detrimental to the public good and would not be substantially deviant from the intent and purpose of the bylaw. And one condition is that the
size of the efflaw not to exceed 805 square ft >> and the door >> and the door. >> Oh, and and >> second condition, the removal of the second door. So, just a point of clarification, if you could go back to the um proposed plan. Um, so we're doing
the bottom door, >> correct? >> Correct. >> Good. >> And, uh, Mr. Nolan, just one other um, point of reference. You are aware this application will require a storm water permit. >> Sorry,
>> it will require a storm water permit. >> I was not aware of that. >> Yeah, that's that's uh, from town engineering. >> Okay. So >> anything any special permits require what? Residential commercial any special permits require storm water permit. >> Okay.
>> All right. So I just want to make you aware of that. >> Oh permit >> permit. Yes. >> Okay. Sorry. I was I was thinking management plan. >> No, that's dropped there for a minute. >> Uh I've got a motion. >> I'll second. >> I've got a second. Any further
discussion? Hearing none. All in favor? I opposed. I >> very good. Uh, it passes and uh, good luck with the project. >> Oh, we got a >> Yeah, we're not out of it yet. >> Um, >> I make a motion to issue a finding under
table two for side setback encroachment for a proposed addition that will be 12.1 ft from the property line where 15 is required and that the proposed extension alteration of the use is not substantially more detrimental than the
existing structure to the neighborhood. Second. >> I got a motion and a second. Any further discussion? Hearing none. All in favor? I opposed. >> I >> All right. Now I can tell you good luck with your project. >> Thank you. Good luck, guys. >> Happy Thanksgiving.
>> Happy Thanksgiving. >> Okay. Uh Mr. Zeli, it does not look like our other applicant is present. >> Uh no, let me just do a one more double check on the email throughout the meeting. >> It's not Miss Pulcaria. See, I'm
starting to remember your name from the minutes. So, that's You're getting to be like Mr. Brad Street. >> It's a comp. That's a good thing. >> So, no, no voicemails. >> I get voicemails emailed to me. So, there no voicemails from the applicant
and no emails either, >> I guess. Uh, so from the board, we would ask the planning department to reach out to the applicant at 3 Lraine and ask if they could come to next week's meeting. And we will continue this till December 1st. December 1st.
>> Does that sound okay? >> Yep. >> Should we make a motion though to continue? >> We're going to make a motion to continue this case. Somebody uh three Lorine Road. >> I make a motion we uh continue three Lorine Road to our December 1st uh
meeting. >> I've got a motion to continue this to December 1st. Can I get a second, please? >> I I second. >> I've got a second. All those in favor? >> I opposed. >> Very good. And can I get a motion to um close the meeting?
>> Ajourned. Uh motion adjourn a meeting. >> A second. >> Second. All in favor? I I Good night, Dammers.