--------- Heavenly Father, we thank you Lord for your love toward us. We thank you Lord for your love toward this city, this community, this county. And God, we just uh lean on you for your direction, uh your strength, uh your courage and everything that we have to do. We pray
you be with each council member and staff, Lord, as we make decisions and direction for the city. We thank you Lord for these that have come out to be a part to help us and to have input Lord in what we do here. And so and Lord we just thank you for your favor. We thank
you Lord for your blessing. And it's in Jesus name we pray. Amen. Amen. Amen. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation
under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all. Did that Cindy bring in a troublemaker in here? Oh my. Okay. All right. We have a couple of proclamations that uh I did one
earlier this week. It's a national day of prayer. I want to read that. Uh yeah, that's the first one I got here, I believe. Oops. I'll find it here in a minute.
National Bre of Prayer. There it is. Yeah. All right. Let me read this. Uh, whereas the National Day of Prayer Task Force calls the nation to to prayer by creating awareness, urgency for intercession, and providing resources
necessary to facilitate prayer growth in America. And whereas the National Day of Prayer Task Force mission is to communicate with every individual the need for personal repentance and prayer, mobilizing the Christian community to intercede for America and its leadership
in five centers of power, church, education, family, government, and media. And whereas the National Day of Prayer is an annual event established in an act of Congress in 1952 and in it's in its 73rd year of national recognition. And whereas prayer
is a bridge between heaven and earth. And it is the conduit through which the spiritual realm is brought into everyday lives. And prayer is the method God uses to provide not only our daily needs from food to shelter but also comfort, strength, and guidance. And whereas it
is a day that belongs to all Americans who are free to organize and participate in activities that are consistent with their own beliefs. Now therefore, I, Bob Calva, virtue of authority vested in me as mayor of the city of Defunia Springs, Florida, do hereby proclaim the first
day of May 2025 as the national day of prayer in the city of Defuniaak Springs. And I commend this observance to the citizens and request the prayers be poured out for our city, for our neighbors as we live, serve, and work and learn together that we may be filled
with joy and peace and abound in hope. And for those of you that may not know that uh this coming Thursday at our amphitheater uh there'll be a gathering together at 6 pm and uh there'll be uh our national day of prayer with several
ministers and there'll be some um worship down there as well at that same same evening. So see you at the amphitheater at six o'clock on Thursday evening. All right. Now, I want to read a proclamation for our clerks. I think they got one a
little bigger print here. Here we go. All right. Whereas the office of municipal clerk, a timehonored and vital part of local government exists throughout the world. And whereas the office of municipal clerk is the oldest among public servants. And whereas the
office of the municipal clerk provides a professional link between citizens, the local governing bodies, the agencies of the government and other levels. And whereas municipal clerks have pledged to be ever mindful of their neutrality, their impartiality, rendering equal
service to all. And whereas the municipal clerk serves as the information center on functions of local government and community. And whereas municipal clerks continually strive to improve the administration of the affairs of the office of municipal clerk
through participation in educational programs, seminars, workshops, and annual meetings of their state and provincial, county, and international professional organizations. And whereas it is most important appropriate that we recognize the accomplishments of the
office of the municipal clerk. Now therefore, I Bob Campbell by virtue of authority vested me as mayor of city Phoenix, Florida. I do hereby proclaim the week of May 4th through May 10 uh 2025 as municipal clerk's week. And in the city of Funia Springs, Florida, I
further extend appreciation to our municipal clerk, Raphael Ali, and to all municipal clerks for their vital services they perform and their exemplary dedication to the community they represent. And so I'd ask uh Raphael if
you would come. We'll like that there. All right. All right. Thank you, Raphael does an incredible job. He He is one of the perkiest people I've ever been around. Trust me, I need that. And
all of us upstairs do. I know that. Thank you, Mayor. and uh he is a uh he's part of our our Marine Corps. He's he's uh he's involved in a lot of different things, but we
greatly appreciate what he do does here at the city. So, so at this time I'd like to ask uh my secretary Cindy if she will come up and I have a a letter of appreciation, but we also have a plaque that did not
get in here today like it should have. So, we will be presenting that to her in a couple of days. But uh let me just sort of read what we had on there. And in recognition of your retirement and the heartfelt appreciation for many years of outstanding service to the city of
Phoenix Springs, your unwavering dedication professionalism and commitment has made a lasting impact on our community and all who have had the privilege of working alongside of you. As you close this chapter and begin a new one, please know that your
contributions will be remembered and valued for years with deepest gratitude and best wishes for your retirement. Appreciation your plaque. Okay, we'll hug in a minute. Could be your
husband back there. I don't care. Okay. T, guys. We got one more. Hey, Kobe. Let me say this about Cindy. Uh she is she's been with the city for I don't know about 13 or so years. But uh she's
been with me for 10 my last 10 years here. And u I tell you what, she is an incredible servant to everybody she knows, not just the city, not just to me, but to her family. Uh there are
people that uh I have I do business with as a mayor that just love her pieces, you know, because it's just, you know, whether you talk to her on the phone or in person, she's there to serve and she's going to offer any help that she possibly can. That's her grandson there.
That's So anyway, Kobe, thank you, Mayor. Uh so council employee of the quarter um for the second of fiscal year 25. Um this was pretty easy one. um had a number of submissions. This one was you know and
I'm glad that this one this person was nominated. So the employee for this quarter for her her work to the city and dedication to this city and staff and willingness to do anything and go above and beyond just because she cares she wants to. And on top of that she stuck to a problem for the city for 7 years
that result in $215,000 coming back to the city. We would have not gotten. So, Lisa, [Applause] I love you, girl. It worked. It did. I had no idea. [Music] Thank you.
Thank you so much. Good job, Jim. That's her husband. the Marshall. All right. Okay. At this time, we would uh entertain a motion to uh approve the
consent agenda as written or if you want something taken off of it, you can let me know now. Motion to approve. Second. We have a motion second. Any any questions? We'll start with Josh. All in favor say I. I. I. I. I. Eyes car. Thank
you very much. All right. Now we're going to go to the regular agenda. And we have any changes, Kobe, that you're aware of? None. I'm aware of Mayor. Motion to approve. Second. All right. We have a motion to approve and a second. Any questions?
All in favor say I. I. I. I. I. I. Eyes carry. Thank you very much. We'll go to 4C1, Mr. Towns. Thank you, Mayor. So, council, you know, we all had the workshop for the interviews from the engineering
firms. Y'all selected a method in which you'd like to rank them. So, we're going to ask at this time that you fill out that ranking sheet one through five. If we could pass it around or let Raphael if you would rather please go pick them up individually and then Raphael, myself, Mr. Atinson can can consult on that and provide back score. I think the
mayor, we talked earlier if you wanted to ask the council about yours. That's that's up to the council if they want me to weigh in on it or not. Yeah. Doesn't really matter. I did. Council, do you have a problem with the mayor filling out a ballot on it or not? I don't have a problem. Any
objections? If no objection, you'll pull one out. Do you have one, mayor? I have one for you right here. Council me. So, he's allowed to vote on this, but nothing else. Not Not getting a vote. I'm ranking. He just gets to
rank the council. There's a variety of issues that the council takes up in consultation with the mayor and historically on ranking these type of contracts. The council has been willing to allow the mayor the opportunity to rank. In fact, the last three or four
times I know we've done engineers um the council has allowed the mayor to participate in the ranking process. He doesn't get to vote though, but he does get to rank. But if the council objects, of course, the council can say, "No, we don't want the mayor's consultation on this." But there are no objections. How
are we ranking them? So he he he'll be Your first your first pick is number one. Yeah, I've already done mine. I just want to know how the math would work with six of us. We'll get together and we'll we'll put them. So what we do is we we assign So what we do is we we can do it one of two ways and we'll sit
down and look at how y'all scored. somebody failed to fill out their ballot. It changes a little bit, but typically it's you do it based on you either assign number one, five points, number five, one point and so on in between whoever has the most points or
alternatively do one one one and then the average amount. That's what we've done a lot of the times. We'll do it between the two. Sometimes somebody shorts us a ballot and we have to configure so that we don't have a zero unweighted but it's still a total number of votes across the board averaged no
matter how you do it. It's just about excuse me what what's three knots three notch name or three notch they they were CDG but to the city they're represented as three notch group here in the state of Florida. Okay. So, which one we're going to use here? CDG or CDG
or we'll we'll process it either way. Mayor, we we I assure you we can figure that out. Real time. Yeah, we'll put them together. I don't
care. Pull these up. Give him something. It was a dog. You would have been a dog. You would have been [Laughter] Is that everybody? Yeah, that's all right. Let us know when you get
those input. We'll come up. All right. Do we want him to tally and we move on or we wait? Well, he's got to take the minutes. So why don't we maybe do a fivem minute recess to allow him that opportunity unless somebody wants to take minutes for him.
Take five. All right, let's take five. Uhhuh. Thank you. It's okay. You having fun yet? We started off with what I thought was a wish list for what we wanted this next
year. And it turned into we don't have the money to do it and what are we going to cut and So, we'll make some progress this next go round and balance the budget.
Yeah, it takes a few. We got several meetings, but something's got to be something's got to go. Yeah, they got to bring us back some information so we can make a little better decision next go around or, you know, a more concise
decision. It may not be any better. And see in all these workshops, you know, you can't vote. If it's a special meeting, no problem. But it's a workshop. And then at the CRA
meeting we had at the community center, everybody thinks there's they're an engineer, you know. You going to find around this desk here, you going to find lawyers, doctors, and you name it,
buddy. [Music] No, I hope this two. Welcome to the Now, what is it about these jeeps like you have that other people puts on their desk? Okay. So, when CO came, there was a lady
in Pennsylvania who was home. The only way she could make her universe was she gave up. And it all started from people that for some [Music] reason I have been given everyone.
And then I keep these little baby ones like this that I that I give away to people. But when you see somebody out it was away for co when everybody was homebound. That's just how that lady made her neighbor smile that couldn't
get I see that he's got the bucket. Oh, there. See Clay's got the bucket. That's my bad because I brought them and gave them out before you got here. Last meeting. The last meeting I said we're never going to go hungry again. I was
starving at the last meeting. Amy brought for every That's perfect. Thank you. All right, we're going to call this uh meeting back to order. Raphael, you want to read off the results? Just just total rankings. Just total
ranking. Yeah, give the ranking and average. So CI overall majority was um number one on all six list within the average of one and then so that's your top ranked
firm what's your top ranked firm then received 18 but the overall average was three uh CDG slash3 notch group uh received 13 but The overall average was
2.1 6667. So you can go up on that. So that is your number two group. Understand we're talking about if you put them one they get one point. If you put them two they get two points. Put them three they get three. So lowest score is best. Okay. By golf. Now going the opposite way. And then associates
received 23 and their average was 3.83333. um Okonnell and Associates, they received 30 and their average was five. So we would need a motion to award to
the top two ranked firms, Ankor and CDG, or otherwise three notch group. Could we have him read one, two, three, four, and five how we ranked them? Forget the percentages. Just give them in by name who came in first. Yeah. Thank you. So
first was Ankor. Second was CDG. Um your third place was Basketball Donovan. Your fourth was Midtower Associates and your um fifth. Your fifth
would be OK Associates with five. Thank you. So moved. So motion to accept the top two ranked firms as anchor and CDG3. I have a motion second. Uh any questions? And that is to enter into negotiations as well. Correct. Yes.
Any questions from the public, comments? All in favor say I. I. I. I. I. I. Carrie. All right. Congratulations. We're going to move on to uh 4C2. Uh Mr. Kobe. Thank you, Mayor.
So, council, this list has the city committee. So committees in the city that y'all point individuals to which consists of the community redevelopment agency, the planning board, the city beautifification and tree board, cemetery board. If they'll keep going a little further
down, code review and land use committee, which uh we have a vacancy on. So, and then special magistrate is just there as an FYI for you all to know who refresher who that is for us. Uh, and then and that position is hired by Mr. Towns. Correct. That's why it's an FYI. So, according to code, that
position is hired by the city manager. And then the next sheet, you'll see all the committees that council members of the mayor sit on to represent the city within the community or within the region, whatever that is. So, um, what we're doing tonight, we're going to talk about and see what the council would
like to do. Um, if any of you have a willing to serve on some of those committees or step down from a committee you currently serve, um, that's what we're here to do tonight. Some of those and this is something the mayor and I discussed earlier. Um you know some of those we currently have vacant we have vacancies on and I don't know that um we
have had people on them you know is it something that we see talk about let's bring back next meeting let staff reach out to each organization make sure that they still need a representative from the city or desire to have one in case bylaws have changed or something like that has occurred. Um or we can we can
appoint someone tonight if you like and then we can do that after the fact. But I think it probably prudent the mayor and I talked probably just decide go down each committee, see if you still want to serve or not. If you do, you go on one bucket. If you don't, you go on another and then we have to reassign that committee. Go ahead, Amy. I'd like
to volunteer um to say I'm embarrassed by this, but I did not even realize I was on the coalition and I've not been to one meeting and I apologize for that. I think I would like to be removed from that. And um I also sit on the chamber
one and Mr. Beard Bomb I think you wanted to sit on that at one point and you were so gracious to let me do that but that's it's a lot for me and what I'm doing right now. So I'd also like to be removed from uh that particular committee.
Yeah, we want to kind of see where your position is with these before you appoint somebody so you kind of know who is available and who's not. I I would like to volunteer to serve on the Okaloosa Walton Transportation Planning Organization. I'm currently listed as an alternate, but I would like to step up
and fill that vacancy. Now, if any of you would like to second that or whatever, you can do at this time. Um, we'll try to fill these positions as we talk about them. I I'll second uh that. Uh, but can I add
one more to what I was I'd also like to be considered for the mayor pro town uh for a year. Okay. Um, question first. Opportunity Florida. I was just recently appointed to that. Is that a reup or am I is that automatic
I continue to serve this this next term? Anyway, I would I would like the opportunity to do that. We're not sure the B we're not sure what the bylaw say for the individual organization. We just have it on here again as an FYI that you all serve on that. Okay. I would assume you would stay there if that's what council so desire. Continue. Yeah. Okay.
But since there's election, it would probably be appropriate for y'all to go ahead and vote on. Okay. So, we'll put your name down. There's nobody else in there. And then we'll see if there's any in contention. There's not in contention. Mayor, maybe we just do one motion to approve the whole slate. Yeah. We can go by and then if there are a few in contention, we'll vote on those
separately. Make it easier. Okay. And and second, um I'd like to throw my name in for the U W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W W Wcea I mean the EDA uh business leadership council sheet. Okay, I'll I'll second it out for for EDA BLC.
Where where is that one? It's a vacant. It's um on flip your page. Scroll down at the bottom. You see there, Councilwoman Norton County Economic Development Alliance Business Leadership isn't it is an advisory board to the executive.
Well, I guess we technically have a motion, a second for my appointment to the TPO, but we want to finish off the table. Okay. Uh any any questions about that motion and second one? All in favor say I. I. I. I. I.
Eyes carry. All right. Let's uh move we go from the top down. That was that was probably the most pressing one to be honest with you. Um so the council on aging Councilman Beerbomb currently sits on that. I didn't know. Okay. Willing or I mean what can you tell us
about that? Is it a I didn't know I was serving on it. See, I don't Well, you know, some of these committees are they changed their name quarterly and some are monthly and some are God knows when, but that's all I was going to ask you, but since you didn't even
know you were on there, uh, let's come back to that next meeting. Okay. Okay. Um, Emerald Coast Regional Council, that is the mayor. Yeah, I'm on there now. U, what is that? We got to have somebody on
there. It doesn't have to be me, but somebody needs to be What do they do on that? What is it? It's They work with the TPO uh on on a lot of the projects that most of them, you know, roads, highways,
uh walking paths, uh uh it's hand to hand with the TPO and matter of fact, they usually pick up right where we leave off. Um, it's a board that crosses Scambia, Santa Rosa,
Okaloosa, Walton Bay, and there may be others, but I know there board members from all those counties that are on that board. So, uh, I'm certainly willing to stay there, but if somebody else has
a, you know, just got to do it, lead the mayor. I'd say we'll leave him. Okay. Okay. All right. Let me just stack these up. Clay, right? Okay. I'm sorry. Opportunity Florida that Councilman Harrison who was recently appointed to
that. No objections. Uh Walton County Tourist Development Council. Councilman Skers was recently appointed to that position. And that's a term. Yeah, I'd like to stay on that. Well, I mean, it's for a term. It's a set term there. So, okay. The Walt County Economic Development Alliance. Councilman
Beerbomb serves on that board there. That's also a set term. The Walton County Chamber of Commerce. Councilwoman has desired express desire to step off that board. So, would anyone be willing to serve on that one? I would I appoint Todd. I mean, I nominate Todd. He wanted
it the last time. Todd, I second. I'll remember this these things around. What about I'll accept. Do you Okay. Okay. Second. Any other questions? A
good group or substitutes from anyone? All in favor say I. I. I. I. I. I thought we were going to do this all at once. We'll clear. Well, y'all messed it up. Oh, sorry. I was just You gave a second.
I didn't. No, I just nominated that. I couldn't leave it open on the table. We'll clean it up. But we'll figure it out. Yeah. You got two of them out of the way. We'll keep tracking. Go ahead. The Walton County Coalition and I believe that's prevention coalition. Is that right, Jane? Yes. Marshall, it
coalition. So, council expresses step down from that. Would the city marshall like to serve on that? It's an elected official requirements. I think he I'll nominate Chief Harley. second that. He did not know that was coming until right.
So, I I don't know what involvement they really want you to do. I've been a member for that coalition since 2005. Uh Richard Black goes every month to the meetings already to represent the city. So, I don't know if there's a requirement for you to go there, but if there are updates that we do have
representation from the city there through Richard Black. Um, and I I haven't been to one in in a little while myself, but um, we do have representation as a city. If that's unless you just have to have somebody appointed to that. I think they require an elected official be appointed. I
don't remember that, but that the last one admitted they didn't know they were on there. So, I mean, you got excuse that. I I think we would be the only elected officials that show up to those meetings. I've never seen any other ones besides special guests. So, would you accept my nomination? I I'll take it. Sure. I I
got direct to put me on it. Pencil. I ain't f of a challenge. I already got motion. I don't want to stack this. Yeah, I'll take it. Thank you. Say I I I got to lock him down.
Go ahead. You heard it. The Walton count the Walton Correctional Institution Community Advisor. Again, this is one of those boards that I know Councilman has served on for a long time. Um what is it? Where is that's a juvenile place, right? Yes, sir. By the airport. Yes, sir. So, is it one that we need to reach
out to and make sure they even exist still? Um, I would do that. Yeah, good idea. Yeah. Yeah. So, we'll reach out to that. Next one is Walton County Economic Development Alliance Business Leadership Council. Can we see? That's the one you
want, right? I nominated Mr. Harrison. Second try. They want to do it one by one. Okay. Any questions? Any comments on motion? All in favor say I. I. I.
I. I. I. I. Not very much. Um, the Walton County Community Health Improvement Plan Committee. Again, that's another one just like the correctional institution. I'm unaware. Where is that? Or who is that? It's health department. Sounds like health department. I think it is. Oh, it
is health department. Yeah. we haven't had someone serve on. So I can do the same thing. We can reach out to healthy for next meeting and then the TPO I've already approved council beer bond to serve on that. So at this point um we're going to bring back the council on a mayor prom. We're
going to bring back Yes ma'am. We're going to bring back the um correctional institution committee and the community health improvement plan committee. So, we'll bring those back. And it looks like the only ones left that we need to approve uh was the mayor for the ECRC,
which may uh council Harrison for Opportunity Florida, Councilman Scars for TDC, Councilman Beerbond for the EDA. Um even though they have terms, but we probably get a motion to that effect. Okay. Motion. Second. All right. Second. Uh any
question? All in favor say I. I. I I I carry very much. And the counciloman has brought up uh mayor pro Tim. So you'all have discussion on that? Yeah. U did
y'all you vote yourself in? I didn't vote myself in, but I said I would like to try it. I'd like a little experience at it. Motion. Okay. So make approve for that. All right. Got a
motion. I need a second. Ouch. You're hurting me. Is this typically a year or longer? I'll actually use it. Two years. Used to. How long did you since 2019? Yeah.
Okay. Well, we had we had one little short time with Bob. I think. Yes, we did. That's right. Yeah. Knight. Yeah. I think we had a two-year run and then That's right. took over. Had two two and
then then he took over back to it 21. He's been there since. Um, okay. Does it have to be every two years? Well, you know, the language in that you can stay in there long. The language said is contradictory because it says annual, but then it also says
election, which is every two years. So you can fill it annually if you want, but historically we have let people serve election to election is what we've done. So two years is what you're saying. Yeah, we still we reappoint them. That's we have historically let
them serve two years. All right. So did we get a second? We did not. Okay. All right. Can I do the second? I thought hers was the was the motion to start with and his was the second. He made the motion. You can second.
All right. So, we have a motion to second. Any other questions about this motion? All in favor say I. I. I. I. I. Car. Thank you very much. All right. We got some. I don't know if you
got any more left. Mayor, I think the next one's just for y'all to think about. Um, if Jesse, you'll scroll up to the city boards. There are a couple vacancies. Uh, the mayor has a vacancy on the planning board. So you'll think about that and bring something back by our next meeting um council has a
vacancy on the CRA likewise next meeting the city beautifific case tree board has a vacancy that one has generally been if I'm not mistaken kind of any council member who had a a recommendation the last one was under Mr. beer bomb who resigned and then we have a uh vacancy on the code review and
land use committee um that's councilman Berbomb citizen Greg Krishon and it was former councilman valley so may I address that for a moment Mr. Council Mr. council and I spoke about this and I I wanted the council to take up as part of the appointment process here. We have
worked through the vast majority of the city's code at this point in time the next couple of large project areas that we're going to be taking on with the land development code and we have a consultant being brought in to do that. So, in the last board meeting that we
talked about, we talked about whether or not what this board's role would form in that. So, I don't know if that's something that this board may want to take a hiatus while we work through that land development process. I mean, we've got several ordinances that are coming to
you from that that have been worked up with staff, but the next few big steps were all going to be something we've now hired a consultant to come in and do. So, it may be a duplication of efforts. And I don't honestly know that you want a citizen council hybrid board doing the same thing your consultants doing. So I
wanted the council to think about does that board need to continue in this moment or is this one that needs to um be reconstituted? You can reconstitute at the drop of hatch. You can do it at any board meeting if you want, but otherwise you're running a thin window
right now. Can it be one of us up here? That's well it's whatever you want. I mean, before it was two council members and one citizen, but I'd like to nominate Danny for what? To serve on the code and land use review committee. We meet once a month. It's about a on
average we do about a two or three hour meeting and go through line by line the code. Okay. Is this going to when the developers come in here has nothing to do with the developers. It have anything to do with sidewalks and infrastructure and underground utilities and road
improvements or anything like that? No, sir. I'm not interested. Okay. Uh let me ask you on the uh because he was talking about you may have duplication of effort here. Do
you a couple questions. One, do you think it needs to happen once a month? And number two is what you've got on the books right now need to be brought to the council or sit on. We got quite a few things to bring to them, but I don't know how much more we've got to do
because the land development code was that next real big hurdle because we're on 17, right? Moving into 18. Correct. I I think the only thing that I I had an intention of of reviewing at at our level would have been um the ordinance surrounding business licensing and having some discussion around business
licensing and the ordinances there. So, y'all haven't y'all haven't discussed that one yet. No, sir. No, sir. So, I mean, we we could if if someone else wanted to to serve for a brief time, we could wrap that up, you know, review that, have a couple meetings on that and then we could suspend suspend it for the
LDC rewrite. I don't I don't, as Clay said, we didn't ever have really intentions of discussing the LDC at our level because a consultant's been hired to to review all that. So, it's more going through the actual code of ordinances nonLDC to and we've made it
we've made great progress. Again, this was this was formed under Councilman Mcnite's request many many years ago. A couple more months. Uh you don't necessarily have to suspend it. You can always
volunteer nominate Josh. I'll say that. Thank you. I'll do it. You have a motion. I heard that. All right. Well, I've been through Let me say You're going to have to reiterate to my wife this only for a few months here.
We told that charter review committee was only a couple months. Oh gosh, you're not. Hey, we got it done. All in favor say I I I I I carry Thank you. Go ahead. Is there other Kelby? Uh no, mayor. The rest like
said it's for you to know and bring back. All right. Well, so all all of you that are hanging in the balance and I've got at least one on there that uh I'll have a name by the next meeting and
uh and Kobe, if you'll just remind us of who we need to what we need to fill in. Of course, we need to ask you questions. I know a couple of these particular ones at the uh given of justice and some of those. Yes, sir. We'll bring it back. Okay. All right. Well, thank you very
much and we will go back to uh three four C3. Thank you, mayor. Uh this is the person policy and procedures manual update. So, uh myself and staff in our staff meeting went over this two or
three time two over two or three meetings now. Um you'll see a number of red lines in there. Majority of these red lines stem from a change in the spending thresholds we're going to ask for. There is one at the beginning of the policy that's I believe Mr. Atkins
some older language that we no longer do through our PO process. So the major um update to this is the spending thresholds. So currently our thresholds and they are 0 to $999. Staff can just a director can put those in as PO or their superintendent
and it gets approved and moves on. uh from a,000 to $9,999 is required three POS. It gets put in the system and I ultimately am the last approval for that. Anything from 10,000 to
$19,999 requires three quotes and it must come to the council before a PO's issued. And anything over 20,000 has to be competitively bidded. And that's our current thresholds. We're asking to take those thresholds up from to zero to
$2,999. That's the no quotes. Then from 3,000 to $19,999 would be three quotes in my approval. 20,000 20,000 to $34,999 would be three quotes in the council's approval. And then 35 and
above would be competitive bid. Uh we looked at a couple other sections of the of the policy as well, particularly competitive bidding. It follows state statute. I looked at state statute. There has been no changes in their in their thresholds for competitive bidding in the procurement process for that. In terms of notices, uh along with the
fixed assets, uh I believe it was Daniels and then 23 the state changed the fixed assets from a,000 to 5,000. We changed it here by resolution as well. Yeah. So it'll be to update and reflect that in the policy. So, those are the main revisions and
then if approved, I'd like to take a second to talk about a section that's currently in the policy and the way the council interprets that and how you'd like us to use it moving forward. But those are the updates we're asking for what you see stricken in red. Motion to approve purchasing policy and procedures update. Second. All right. I have a
motion and a second. Any questions? Quick quick question. Um got to be on page 13 of it. the change from 10,000 to 20,000 on heavy equipment. Is that typically because those repairs are in that range? Well, and uh that but also
the 10,000 number is currently my threshold spending threshold. So, if y'all approve the what you're talking about the updates, my new threshold will be 20. So, it just meets it just continues to match the thresholds. Yeah. Yeah. Chief, so I got a couple that I've been
working on also. Um, I'm glad we're at this point because I've been trying to get this accomplished for 6 years for us to update some of this purchase policy and taking a look at certain things. And I will say between Danny and Kobe, it seems like we room forward on that. But um I've been comp piling a list for the
last six years of kind of issues that we run into when we're trying to do operations and stuff um that maybe can either help streamline some of the processes or give a little bit better direction or guidance on how to do certain things. Um so I'd like to kind
of go over some of those if y'all got the time or would like to today. So it's wouldn't take a whole terrible long but um couple different scenarios. Um, so Flock cameras, um, which are the license plate readers, they've been very great
for investigative tools for us. Um, we currently have four of them that we pay for. Um, the rest of them in the county and in the city. Um, I think there's 12 total. So, um, eight of them are funded by the sheriff's office in the city. We
we picked up four of them. Um, per the policy, considering they're $2,000 a piece, um, we need three quotes. Um, but if I'm looking at the policy, I just want to get some clarification because I've told, well, you need three quotes
on it. But while we there might be other options out there, Walton, Okaloosa, Bay Homes, everybody is using Flock. So if we went with a different company, it'd be no good to us or or them. So it's kind of
integrated all together. So um would I be under right on page 14? That's a soul source. That's a soul source. Well, that I just want to get that on the record that that's because we just All you got to do is bring those to us. So you know that's we just had a she's even n cover it again. So I just want to make sure
that you're good. Well, it once again it depends what finance director you've talked to in the last six years with some of this stuff. I wouldn't have it on my list if it hadn't created an issue in the past. So, um, purchase of used vehicles, would I be under the assumption that that would be considering a single source, too, if we
find a 2019 Silverado that we could use um that was used um from a company? No, that's not a single soul source. Kobe, what were you talking about that other? So, what James and I spoke about some is uh I think it's uh go toward the end of
the policy, Jesse. Section 13 obtaining surplus property. Yes. Yes sir. Section 13 40. I think 40 is 69
[Music] right there. Thank you. So section 13 is surplus property and then subsection 131 is obtaining surplus property. So this is the section I was talking about I was talking about a little further. So we're going to go ahead and kill two birds on the stone. U you read the first
paragraph there. A city manager has the authority to obtain property from authorized surplus property programs such as other government agencies, manufacturers, businesses or public auction when purchased in accordance with the purchasing policy signature authority thresholds. So I know C Marshall has looked at a particular
website that is specializes in police vehicles that are surplus. The way I interpret that is that we already have the authority to do that within my spending a threshold or come to the council and getting that approval. So, I think that's where we're at today is under making sure the council all agrees with that interpretation and is good
with that. If not, then we probably need to refine that or take it out. Um, but yeah, it's kind of what we're talking about here. But, I said before in the past, we've there's no way to do it. So, you know, we're looking at ways to save money this presented, but I agree with
Kobe. This is plain. It's his authority. All right. Long as we're good with that. So, I I concur with that. I agree with that. That is correct. Um the other is so each year when we when we do budgets for um at least my department our our bigger assets,
vehicles and stuff um we get approved a budget for x amount of dollars and then we have to you know we we basically know what we're going to buy because we've done the research at that point. Um and then we got to come back to the council and get approval to buy it. So, is there
any way to streamline this process where once the county or the city council has approved the budget, we're good to buy those vehicles instead of coming back and redoing, you know, just it just stalls everything another two weeks and then if I mean the number amount
changed, we got to go back and it's just it has been a nightmare last couple years. But for for me, Chief, I think that's a redundancy as well. when the budget I I wanted to see in the budget a list of all the fixed assets that we were going
to purchase. So if I saw in there that you were going to buy two whatever with this outfitting to me I know that I've approved that I don't need to see it a second time. Is that what you're asking for? Yeah. Yeah. As long as it it fits in what the budget amount. Now obviously
if we go over that's not what she's saying. Hold on. I want to be clear. If you said you were going to buy two Chevy Taho, then I a certain way for that price. Yes. Yes. Then I That's not what you're asking for. You're asking for a line item for budgeted vehicles that you
can go spend as you see fit. Not No, not necessarily. So if we budget, we know we're going to buy two vehicles for $100,000. Just rough numbers. As long as I don't go over that $100,000 when I go to buy them, it's already approved. I don't have to come back before the council.
Now, if it goes over 100,000, yeah, I could see you having to come back and say, you know, we need a budget amendment or whatever we need to do to to offset this cost. But, but you're just saying generically, you're just saying, I want a line item for 100, and I'm not going to tell No, no, no. What
I'm saying is, so when I present my budget, I'm say I'm planning on buying two vehicles this year at $49,000 a piece. So, I budget, but you're going to say what kind of vehicle. Oh, yeah. I do it every year. It's see it twice. But it's always we got to come back and that puts us another two weeks behind or if
this was changed or that it's just there's a lot of redundancy and we're talking about efficiency earlier in the previous meeting that when we approve the budget if there is to me if there's 700,000 that we're going to purchase fixed assets for and there's a list by division I don't need to see it twice.
So I mean for me six years we've had to do that. So you see and there might be another issue that I don't know but she does. So, so what if we determine a shortfall shortly after we adopt that budget? Or what if everybody ran out and bought what they
wanted in October? I don't have the money right away. I mean, you don't get right frontloaded to you. You've got then why would we approve? It's a budget. Yeah, we approve. You approve the expenditure is what? And I guess the
way I operate, I'm always trying to find the deal. So, last year I found ones that were previous they're going to go for and I I better pull the trigger on them now or I'm not be able to get them for that price. That's that's how I've done in the past. But it it makes it challenging. I I think I think we have
to be careful about just giving blanket approval and then you know we're you know I'm not comfortable approving $100,000 worth of purchases and then we don't get to at least ratify it beforehand. I I think I think it's worth
a second look when when that when the time comes to do the purchase. I understand that you, Chief, you might have to move fast, but it's a sales tactics to say, "Well, that price is only good for 48 hours. You better buy it quick." That's just a sales tactic. We got two on the lot from last year. We can give you a $10,000 reduced cost.
That's what happened last year. If we don't jump on it, we're going to lose that. We're we're out 20,000 or all of those all of those dealerships. It might be, but but I can tell you I disagree. I'd rather say 20,000 than just sit
around for two weeks. Have we ever gone to one of these dealerships that's holding us over the barrel and said, "Look, the city wants to buy it. Here's a letter from city marshall and city manager that we're intending to buy it. We just have to receive council approval in two meetings and had them tell us no, we won't hold them." Well, when you only
got a few left on lot. So, just just for Yeah, but what I'm saying is they know we're a government agency purchasing. We already given them a letter saying it's subject to council approval and that's all it takes. It's in the budget. It's a budgeted amount, but we've been squeezed in other municipalities and they've accepted
that. So, it just goes depend on what availability is on the lot and who shows up with money. If somebody says they're going to promise me to come buy something next week and they never show up and I I didn't sell it to Mr. Kosen and he had cash on the barrel, I just lost out on
both. Well, we're the government. They tend to be a little different with us last year. Well, that's it's government sales, but what I'm saying is it's not necessarily brand new inventory. It's it's the leftovers from the year before that we can get a discount on. Right. I got an email yesterday from a a place in
Ohio that's got 14 Ford Expeditions, black in color, that are $15,000 less than our state contract. Yeah. But that could have easily been put on the consent agenda for tonight. or if if it's an urgent matter. I'm just trying to make streamline for y'all if
you but I'm of the opinion that we could easily call a special agenda item special meeting if we if we need to act. I've done that too and that would got thrown out by previous city manager. So, I'm just trying to these are the issues that I've had in the last six years that I'm trying to to give you maybe we can
work through some of it. I'm I'm not in favor of giving up our our actual approval of those. Let's go to the next Let's go to the next item. Uh purchases like at Lowe's. So, when I was redoing the building that we're in, technically I would have to draft a purchase order
on the things that I needed, but then I go to Lowe's and realize, well, this isn't the same size nails I need or I need something different. So, I'd have to come back and redo a purchase order for that and then go purchase stuff. Um there would be and I was told that well
that's going to hurt us in an audit because you you know what I basically what I did I went down and purchased this stuff came back did a PO for what I purchased well that's going to create a problem with the audit and all this so is there a way to do a open PO type thing
a blanket PO other governments do it but you know I was told oh you're going to throw us an audit you're going to throw us you want to operate with what we're supposed to and how we're supposed to. But how much of this is under the current administration of finance team?
I would say none. But I I I think to some degree, Chief, I do understand where you're coming from, but you're the council's got to adopt a policy and and that's what we're doing is changing the policy. So, can we change the policy to
fit where it makes government efficient? Well, if the government's working correctly, is the credit card one that you're talking about on on here? Oh, that's a different section. That's a different section. Danielle, does this give you any heartache?
You want to be able to track the purchases through the PO system. No, we still going to pull. He could he could start I mean you could put the detailed PO in after you've made but I was told that throws us off in the audit and then as long as it's within a day or two I don't I
don't as long as we're using our authority and we're I guess is my point exactly that it shouldn't be an audit issue. So that was just wrong advice. That's just wrong. That's been the advice for six years. So let's let's let six years of advice I've been heading.
If if he puts in a purchase order that I don't know exactly how detailed we are here, but purchase order for nails $10 or whatever, goes down there and buys nails that are less than $10. Is he literally having to go an inch and a quarter, an inch and a half, three inch
nail, is he having to different prices for it for that? So, but if it's within the the overall purchase order price, is that all that even if it's over the purchase order price, we can amend the purchase order. So, this is a mute issue. Yeah.
Yeah. This is the issues I've had for six years that weren't mute issues. Well, I'm just saying if if it's not an issue now, it it's not an issue. I'm glad I'm glad we can hear them and I agree with that. You say you want to hear from from the the line and what what's going on like on the front line
from your employees. This is this is what how it affects me. Yeah. So, uh Walmart card to to go purchase candy uh for a parade. I've got to send the city manager a memo requesting the Walmart card and then go check the Walmart card out, take it to Walmart.
Oh, got to do my PO also. And then do all that. So once again, can we figure out a different way whether it's purchasing cards or whatever we got to do. It's credit cards are the same same like a
lot of work. He don't do it. He has his own card over there. He does his thing. But the if we go to Walmart, we use the Walmart card which we got to come and ask permission to use and then sign out and all this other kind like which is your current policy. Anytime someone
wants to use a credit card or the Walmart card, they have to have a memo from Kobe saying they can use it. That was a a protection you put in place. You can Kobe's got Kobe's got so much on his plate that we need some extra help. But I'm I'm bugging him about a Walmart
card. This is what we're talking about. Is Walmart the only credit card we have or do we have like a a Visa? Do we have something different? Maybe more. Five or six at least. What are they? They're credit card. This trust mark the bank gave us a credit card.
Regular credit card? Yes. And you you're not privy to have one of those? I don't have a Walmart card, but apparent Walmart chief, but I mean Walmart, but do you have a credit card? I've got a credit card. Yes. So why couldn't you? We want to use the Walmart card at Walmart for whatever reason. Uh, this is
the way it's been for six years. Was there a reason y'all won't let him have a Walmart? I I don't know. I don't think anybody saying he can't. Danielle, can he use a TRUIT credit card at Walmart? He can use a Trustmark credit card at Walmart. He's
saying he wants to use the Walmart. No, I was told I was We had to use the Walmart card. This is stuff that I've been told. I didn't just come up with this stuff on top of my head. I promise you. All right. You scratch that one off your list. Okay. Well, scratch that one then. Um, eBay purchases once again. All
right. So, um, there's certain things that we can find on eBay that save us money, radios, equipment, stuff like that. Um, take for instance our regular radio that we use every day.
Um, there's times where a lot will come up, you know, 10 radios for x amount of dollars. Um, the problem that we're running into is using credit cards for that and and not how else for it.
Um, I'm not sure. I don't know. Can we set up a PayPal account type thing through the city or h how else can we do that? Um, are you are you not comfortable using your credit card on those purchases? Well, the problem is you kind of run into some of the whether you know make
sure you got your true goods and all this other kind of stuff that get to you and it's legitimate what it is. Um, is there a way that we can streamline some of that process? I'm just going to and the other thing is if you did an Amazon order and you got
this or somebody's going on vacation, you've got a limit on your credit card and you just max it out and you can't use it at all. What is your limit? It's 5 or 10,000. 5,000 I think. But if you're looking at a personal credit card, no work credit
card. Okay. So you got rather regular expenses, office equipment, whatever, pens, papers, and all that on there. And then you go to buy this and then somebody's got to go on vacation. Mayor's ran into this before where the credit card's got too much money on it for this month.
So, is there another way we can handle that to be able to I think let me ask just one more quick question. Is is it going to change what we approve tonight? I think we can fix your issues outside of here. I've tried
fixing them for six years and this is what I've been waiting for right here. Okay. I got I'm okay either way, Chief. I'm just trying to I just want to add this about eBay. Um, General Service Administration, the federal government has dealt with this quite a bit.
Um, their public announcement on this is is generally discouraged to allow government purchasing directly from eBay due to a lack of recourse from defective items, warranty issues, and difficulty with tax exemptions. Further notes that while eBay primarily connects individual
sellers with individual buyers, there's not a centralized entity which leads to difficulties with purchase orders, refunds, and returns. and would note that eBay as part of its e-commerce policy discourages the sale of a variety of issues which would constitute
government goods. So it's entirely possible you buy a radio that they say well that's a government product you're acquiring or product government use and eBay then says well it's defective they're not even going to help you out. So I would just say the federal government has
drawn a hard line with eBay. Many states have done the same. I'm not saying you can't find stuff on there, but from a government procurement standpoint, we would definitely be venturing outside of what many governments have said is Well,
I know we've saved several thousands of dollars from buying certain things off eBay, whether it's card readers for, you know, writing tickets. That was our last purchase that we had. There was a lot of 20 of them on there for $100. I can go
buy them brand new and it's going to cost us $5,000. But again, the concern is if they're not warranted, there's not they come in, they're defective, you have no recourse. If you don't want that and you just want to throw that money out, I guess that's
the council's choice. Mr. Mayor, the chief and I have had many conversations over the last six years about some of the limitations that have been placed on him by the direction of previous staff. I I understand the chief's desire for
efficiency and and I u welcome his his input and his thoughts on that. So what I would like to do is um as part of the the motion I don't I don't remember we do have a motion second floor. Who who made the motion in second? Me. Okay.
Okay. Great. That's that's where I was going with it. All right. What I'd like I would like to include in my I would like to amend my motion to include that we direct staff to work with chief on his concerns and then bring back a report that staff and chief on if there's any additional changes that need
to be made to the policy or if there's any clarification that we can then codify so that there's not so that he's not getting the runaround the next time a different staff person takes over whether it's at a city manager level or finance director level. M my Armania I did send this to Kobe several months ago
and we didn't address it. So I would like but I'm what I'm doing chief is is putting the weight of the council behind it and let's get this to to a resolution. I understand that you have some concerns. I don't as I said earlier there's some of these that I agree with and some of these that I don't agree
with. Councilman, would you be willing to add as part of that motion to have staff identify any areas where the city police department and perhaps the fire department would include them as well? Um, it should be treated under an exemption to certain elements of the purchasing policy if that helps the
chief. Yes, sir. And I would I would add to the I would add to it as well that we we either codify this via a motion or a resolution. I'm sorry, a memo or a resolution. be a part of the purchasing policy. I actually want to be an actual part of the purchasing policy. Okay. I'm just saying that the the internal
findings, the internal determinations that we settle on to over the next period of time that they either be codified either in the policy in a memo or in a resolution within the next two budgets like I mean within the next two meetings. Is that is that time? Good
enough. Okay, that's easy. Yeah. Well, there there's even things like so we look at efficiency in work product, right? So, I've got a fleet of vehicles. We get a headlight that goes out after hours. Is it really proper for the police department ride around with
faulty equipment? We can't go to AutoZone and have a open account to purchase a headlight, a tail light, um, you know, stuff like that that needs to be allow certain certain breathing room to be able to do certain things.
So, you know, sir, are you saying that the chief and Danielle need to put their heads together and come up with a solution on this? Kobe. Yeah. That we that we're Did I say Kobe? Yeah. Well, no. No. Kobe is the one. So yeah, we're we're directing staff to work with the
chief and bring something back the next time we have a regular schedule city council meeting within the next day within the next month. Yeah, it you know I can I can amend that motion to be the same, but do we just need to direct staff to do it then?
Because we're not going to approve the policy right now. No, I only we only have one credit card for the whole department and it's in my name also. So, you know, if if somebody goes on a I don't want to say vacation, but a a conference or something and they
take it, we're so m Are we afraid to increase that just a little bit? Mr. Mayor, Josh has a question of legal about the motion. I believe it it was just my question, Mr. Mayor, is whether or not we needed to move forward with an
actual motion at this point or just direction of staff. No, I think we need to adopt the purchasing policy as presented with and with Mr. Beerbomb's amendment is motion to adopt and do this with chief if you amend that second then both the policy is adopt and then we
bring back these additional changes. I want a second. I am. So I meant my second to Okay, I have a amended motion and a second. Go ahead then. This is a day-to-day problem with agencies across America and it sounds
like this is a little complicated. Have you checked in to see how FHP or um Yeah, we all had uh purchasing cards with the state. I I had two of them myself for certain things. Um and there was accountability. I think some of the
fear is holding your people accountable and and letting them be professionals. So, yeah. So, the troopers and the game wardens and all the other law enforcement agencies out there, they have this pretty much state standard
way. Yeah, we all have purchasing cards. That's all you're really asking for. Sounds pretty simple. It's it's it's very simple, but it's just changing the culture and how we do things sometimes. That's not a motion second on the floor. Any question? More questions from anyone?
All in favor say I. I. I. I. I. I. Carry. I'll be bringing that back within the next two meetings. All right, Kobe, we are at four four C what? Four four. Good lord, man. We
ain't got anywhere. We were moving pretty good there for about two seconds. That all went right off the tracks. Thank you, mayor. So, uh staff did put out uh the bid for the property located between 21st and 22nd Street. From what I address is 32 South 21st Street.
That's the roughly one acre, 1.02 acres that the city acquired through a code enforcement agreement. Uh staff did do a good job of removing all the trailers there and continue to clean up. We bought got another piece of equipment to help get that picked up. Um but we did receive one bid uh from that
solicitation in the amount of $50,000 from GSF Valley Properties. I will say that uh so it's up to the council if they'd like to move forward with that bid or not, but I do want to note here that the bid had four
requirements. One of the last requirement was specifying closing in information within there like when they close they did not provide that. So I don't know that is a disqualifying factor but that's something just for you to be. We would need to weigh into that formality if we accept the bid. I make a
motion to reject all bids. Second. I have a motion in a second. Questions? Why are you rejecting it? It was my impression from previous conversations that the council felt that that property was valued higher than that.
And and I would say as I did in previous meetings about this this property, I think we're might be premature in and in in throwing property for sale when we might have a use for it. We might have a trade for it in the future for another piece of choice property that we might
need. We just don't we just don't know um at this point. I'm not close-minded about selling it at some point, but right now I just think it would be wise to just kind of kind of sit on it a bit. Well, you know, that property uh I
went over with Kobe today is industrial. Um it could be used commercial. I mean, you know, it's easy to to go down from industrial commercial to R2 to R1, you know, down the line. So
it could be easily used for commercial property. U have to go through the process, but it's usually u I think Chris is gone now. But anyway, it's usually a very easy process going downhill from uh
industrial to commercial and that it's a little over an acre of commercial property or it's industrial but it could be commercial. Well, it may be. I think it uh maybe somehow we can make the public aware of
that. Now, it's going to be up to the board and back to the council as to whether that's uh approved, but I'm just saying it probably advertise like that, it probably would be a lot more valuable to many people because it's almost right on
90. It's only just what 50 feet off the rightway. Uh so but either way another thing too is that there is penalties that have have been paid which would make it 80 $90,000 property. Correct. So through
the agreement the city received payment and the amount roughly of 44,000 along with the deed to the property. So, we did receive that at the same time as $4,000 property. It could be. And of course, uh once somebody moves on it,
um we got utilities that we're going to begin to benefit from and abalone taxes. And abalone taxes. Clarification on your motion. Are you wanting to sit on it for a bit or is he going to are we asking him to go right
back out to bid to the public? No, I mean the mayor brings up a good point. I mean, if if you look at the total total value of the property for the city, if we're receiving 50,000 from this bid plus the penalties that we've got in it, then then to me that is probably more in
line with what we should receive for that property. So, do we set a minimum? Do we go back out and set a minimum? I'm just clarification. I I'm I'm kind of debating pulling my my motion because I, you know, considering that maybe maybe
we accept it and put it back on the tax ROS and and let the the product get or I'm sorry, let the property be developed. Sorry, you said that one's zoned industrial right now though. Light industrial both in the current zoning and the future land use. I think all
that on 90 is is zoned industrial. Kind of splits in the middle of that block, but they are in it. Yep. Yep. So explain that 40 some odd thousand. So when uh when this came up before the special magistrate, the property had a roughly
$250,000 lean on it. Long story short, we worked through that with the owner and another person who had who actually had the title to the property. Um and end the day, the city received payment of 44,000 for the code violation and the deed to the property um from from the
other individual. So, we received the property in $44,000, but that was for costs that we've incurred over the years, right? For all their Yeah. I mean, our average code cost um speaking to code officer Stron and special
magistrate over time. It's about $2,500 per property. Of course, that goes up periodically if been longer, but that's roughly about our average cost for the whole process and the time spent, staff's time. Do do we have an appraised value of the property? We did not receive one. I think that was a
conversation we had and we didn't do that intentionally if I'm not mistaken. Yeah. You you probably spend two or three,000 more dollars. I'd support maybe if you want to uh with your motion. Yeah. The uh of course now we're
we're still on the motion. Yes, sir. Original motion. He hadn't changed that yet. But, uh, I just thinking about it, you know, we could be off our hands and it being a productive piece of property pretty quick. Now, we could go back out and try
to get a little more money for it. Uh, and we probably could. I just don't know how long we'd have to wait. And it runs right up to 90. No. Uh, there is about 50 feet between the rightway. In other words, there's about 50 ft of property that those storefronts are on and it's
right behind, but it's indust it's light industrial. Well, and it's got a side street on either side, right? 21st and 22. So, I mean, it's got two side streets. It'd be easy could be a commercial property and it's a little over an acre.
Mr. Mayor, if I may. So, council members, you to a certain extent humored me by allowing this to go back out to bit to bid originally. Um, but but given the the conversation that's occurred here, uh, for the city to basically uh,
net 90, let's just say $91,000, right? Minus minus the expenses that we have into it. and for the properties to hopefully be put back onto the market, be put be developed and put back onto the tax
roles, that's a win. That's progress. Um, now I I don't think I don't think it's fair for us to sit here and sell this piece of property for $50,000, 6 months, a year, 10 years, whatever, the property flips or whatever, and oh, oh, well, it sold for
$300,000. We should have got That's neither here nor there. the the ultimate goal of the special magistrate and everything that we've done with code compliance is for property for blight to be remediated and for these properties to come back on the tax roles and be
productive properties within defunct springs. So to a certain extent we have the opportunity right here if I withdraw my motion and maybe there's a substitute motion made to put this property back on to the tax rolls and be a productive piece of property. So I think with that
I'm going to withdraw my motion, Mr. Mayor. Okay. So got to go to the second. Yeah. Do you withdraw? Do you let your second stand as the primary motion or do you wish for it to? Is that you? That was Mr.
Harrison. Do you want your motion to stand as the primary or do you withdraw this time? I withdraw. Okay. So Mr. Mayor, I make a motion that we accept the bid of $50,000 on this property. Okay, we have a motion.
Second. Have a second. Uh questions from anyone. Should we should we put something in there by the closing or the closing date that you were talking about? Well, if we approve this bid, we'll just have to get with them about what that closing looks like.
Okay. All in favor say I. I. Nay. Nay. Nay. I. Okay. Nays prevail here. Uh, so we uh I make a motion to go ahead. Uh, keep it.
Motion to reject. I'm sorry. I make a motion to reject. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. It's a formality, but we need to put on the record. Reject all. All right. There's been a motion in a second to reject. Any questions? I reject the offer. I'd just like to
comment that this this is the same stance that I took before this bid was ever made about holding on to this property a bit to just take a look at our options and that's solely what my decision is based on. So, a motion to reject all bids and not readvertise.
That's right. Okay. And is that your second, Mr. Cosen? Yes, sir. All right. All right. Any other questions or comments? All in favor say I. Nay. I I I carry. Thank you very much. Uh Mr.
Kobe, we will now go to number five. Thank you, mayor. So, this uh this would be I don't know if Clay want to do two parts or one, but we we sell the end. Uh this would be to approve resolution 20250 and public transportation agreement for project 446639-1.
We can do this as one because the transportation government is part of the resolution. So, uh this is uh FDOT work plan dollars for the airport for fiscal year 2025 in the amount of $1,500,000. Uh it's original designation
was toward hanger development. So, it it goes perfectly with our hangar 181920 development project on the east side of the airport. And so, we're ask for approval of both the resolution and the agreement um to get that signed back over to FDOT. So moved. Second. Have a
motion. Second. Questions, comments from anyone? All in favor say I. I. Nay. All right. [Music] Is it too late to ask questions? Yes, sir. Unfortunately,
this kind of went quick. As a general rule, if the mayor calls for time to vote, you've got a question, pop in right then and say you got one more question. Once we vote, once you start voting, we can't discuss. Not in a roll call area.
Since I have questions and not answers, I'll vote nay. I already voted, right? Yes, sir. He's at Todd's end. That was three eyes. Yes, sir. Eyes carried. All right. Thank you very much. All right, Kobe. We're going to go
to triumph. This is the term sheet for the our Triumph Gulf Coast uh grant. Again, this is for hangers 181920 development project on the east side of the airport. This grant is in the amount of $4,229,000. And this has been a long
long work in progress. Let me just tell you that. Um, so work closely with uh Andre, the airport manager, Liberty Partners, Tim, Jennifer James, Dr. G, and the Triumph staff uh their attorney uh and their administrative staff to get
to this point. And so the Triumph board last Wednesday approved this 7 to0. I made it very clear to the Triumph staff that the council had not seen this yet and they would need to consider it. They were fine with that. Uh the terms of the agreement, we've been back and forth a couple times now. They've been very amanable to the city and making sure
that a lot of their terms uh meet the terms of job growth grant fund with department of commerce for the same project to make sure that we have we reduce our compliance as much as possible. Not that we aren't being compliant but that we don't have to do two different types uh cut down on administrative task. Uh second this this
would require the development of 100 jobs. They've also been amanable to allowing their hundred to be duplicates of job growth grant funds first 100. So we're still within that 500 ballpark with job growth grant fund not 600. So that is a plus as well. Also procurement uh their procurement uh is close to
commerce and ours. So way we procure our policy is just fine. So I've expressed this to all them to triumph and they've been amanable to it. So we ask for approval of the term sheet for Triumph G Coast legal approves is to form. Obviously we'll have a full contract that we'll also have to come back with
later but the term sheet we approve is to form. Motion to approve. Second. All right, been a motion second. Questions? Couple um on page two, uh under plans and specifications, there's
is barge, right, is is our engineers. This required a 10-day turnaround time to make any needed plan and specification revisions required by Trump. Trump triumph. Well, it's almost spelled the
same thing, but by triumph. So, sorry. So, is that 10day turnaround by barge a reasonable thing? Well, so we currently don't have an engineering firm for the project yet. That's our next item. Okay. Barge is going to continue, but engineers that are selected for the project. Again, I spoke to Tri staff
about it. It's just that when we get when we get to those points of plans being created, either through design or construction, Triumph wants to see them. They want to see what those plans are, the projects. Um, and so we would we had that turnaround. I don't think it's going to be a problem. They don't seem to have a problem with all their current grantees. So we don't seem to have a
problem with that. But you know, we've had these conversations about this timelines. They're high pressure timelines. Um so okay on page six um of the attachment Triumph can withhold
payments if and it says I want to go on record uh to well I say that it that we have to uh we have to keep these these projects moving forward right contract agree contractor agreements we
establish with regards to completion deadlines and accountability we know what we've been through with the terminal, the airport, the extensions of deadlines and da da da. I don't think we can afford those with this. So, these contracts that we write, we we draw up with with whatever contractors do this,
I think we need to have uh Mr. Atinson really uh put some some some limitations on these things so we don't run into this again because we've got to abide by these timelines. Absolutely. But if we can't get this done by 2031, we have some substantial issues.
Yeah, we'll definitely have liquidated damages, but yeah, the time for turn around completion is not going to be 2031. Yeah, but we know things happen, right? So, this grant is for the design and construction of So, this is this this particular money.
So, there is technically three different funding agencies and four different pots of money. Um but this particular grant is for the construction of infrastructure and towards the hangers themselves. Hangers 18, 19, and 20. And this is on the east side of the airport.
So we're looking at 927. It's on the It's on the east side airport just south of 927. And this does in no way interfere with the apron, the east, west, north uh runway or the north south runway. North south. It doesn't interfere with it at all. It fits with exactly within all the runway protection
zones and existing plans we have. It is an ALP project layout plan which is approved by FAA. So, one other thing about those those deadlines, it it the ramp up deadline on page nine, it talks about uh just
clarification here, uh there's 100 jobs tied to this, whichever is created by the earliest. This says of three years after completion or December 31st, 2031. So,
2031 comes way out, but it could happen before. Correct. I mean I understand it. I just want everybody else to understand. So the the estimated completion of this project again we have very sim we have the same timeline we have shared with commerce and triumph to keep them consistent to the biggest pots of money uh to keep this as easy as we
can. Um but yes that ramp up is when when this contract we've met the obligations of this contract that is then the ramp up period begins. Uh the timeline now is the fall of 2027 for completion. Um, and so that's why we're doing this today to get this stuff moving started. Uh, but when it
completes and we get we get closed out from triumph on this, that's when our ramp up period starts for three. So it'll be three years after that ramp up or whatever. Are these four hangers earmarked for um maintenance and constru and um working on planes and stuff like that. So these
are three hangers. There's a 10,000 foot hanger and then two 6,000 feet hangers. Uh and they're for job creation, economic development. So, I know Tim's here and I have Tim help draft the application on the specific types of industries in there, but the industries and Tim you want to come up kind of just
talk about a second. Uh, again, they've been approved by both Commerce and Triumph. And Triumph will also be a part of any lease that we have. So, when this is built and we start to bring companies in to fill these hangers, Triumph wants to review them to make sure they are actually compliant with what the grant
says. So Trump, can you just speak on the types of businesses we uh certainly I think it was about this time last year that we began conversations with the Florida Department of Commerce uh about the types of activities that we think could be attracted to the Definia Springs airport. Advanced air mobility
was really one of the chief uh points of comm u conversation with them. Uh drone type uh training and stuff, we've already got some expressions of support related to those industries. uh a lot of that was used to drive the TRIP application which uh you may recall took
several several years to uh to get in proper posture for approval. So that that was a big win. Uh we think um with the growth and that that we're seeing nationwide those types of markets if springs is perfect for uh those types of
jobs. So, um, again, u, Councilman Harrison, it is, you know, aggressive timeline, but, um, I know the reaction that we got from Florida Commerce was it was, uh, on the conservative side. Uh, they anticipate that these industries
are growing at a pace that, uh, it shouldn't be an issue to to meet these metrics. Oh, I think we will. I think we absolutely will. Okay. Any other comments? We have a motion second. Correct. Yes, sir. All right. All in favor say I. I.
Nay. I. I. I. Eyes carry. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Tim. And we'll go to number eight. Okay. Mayor. Uh, same thing, same project. Hangers 181920 development east side the airport. Uh,
the city issued RFQ 202501 AP for the design, engineering, and CI of this project. uh that was procured with our policy. We had one responsive bidder that was bars design solutions. Mr. Ali has verified they met all the terms of
that solicitation. So staff recommends that we award RQ 202501 AP to Bars Design Solutions. So moved. Second. All right, we have a motion and a second. Questions, comments from anyone?
All in favor say I. I. Nay. I I I carried. Thank you very much. And Kobe, I guess we'll go to number Well, this is going to be Mr. Wallace, right? No, number eight. Number eight. Number eight. All right. Okay. Number eight.
So, this is same project. Um, Florida Department of Commerce job growth grant fund contract amendment number one. So, this is uh purely administrative. The agency would like to have the contact information on the the uh contract changed. It currently is Liberty
Partners Jennifer Green. Uh they would like to change to a city staff member. So it'll be my contact information for the city. So again, purely administrative only the contact information for the contract. You approve the first contract. So you have to approve the amendment. Motion to approve. Second. I have a motion.
Second. Questions, comments? Anyone got a question? Yeah, Amy, I know you're probably smartest person at the dis. If you've got a problem with something, I'd like you to explain it so I can
understand it. I don't have problem. Okay. All right. Any other questions, comments? All in favor say I. I. I. I. I. Carrie. Thank you very much. I guess
we'll now go to Mr. Wallace, right? Yes. There we go. All right, Chris, get us out of here. Yeah, I'm going to do my best. The D1. Yeah. So, the first item, this is the uh phase three of Bay Springs
uh subdivision. It's approval of the final plan. Um, I'm sure the council recalls that phase one was approved and is nearing completion. So, I'll have the plat for phase one uh for council
approval here within the next 6 weeks, I would expect. Um, phase two has been approved. Um, this is just phase three as we go south off of Koi Burgess. Um, this includes 80 lots on 48.2 acres.
and we'll tie into a phase four that will be uh it's currently under design which will exit out on the Quail Ridge Road. So, I just need approval of the final plan for Bay Springs phase three. So, moved. Second. I have a
motion and a second. Uh any questions, comments? Uh Clay on the on this phase three. I know that the the owner was wanting to get this annexation over to the uh was it Deer Run?
Well, there's two lots there that they'd like to put an exit. What did he need to do to get that done? They So, their attorney came back in March and finally gave us the updated survey we needed. Yeah. What they had done is unfortunately they had not surveyed the adjacent property to a correct boundary
point. They could not give us confirmation it touched the city. Now that we have that, we will evaluate those legal descriptions which we are doing. We should have that back before us. I'm expecting it to be in one of your May meetings was when you'll see the annexation be able to come back and
get you the annexation. Understand they gave us one. you look at it, it's very clear there's a issue with where the city limits touch and don't touch back those lots specifically that we're talking about there are not part of the
subdivision. You would think they are they are not part of the subdivision and therefore they fall under a separate meets and bounds and the ser subdivisions meets and bounds starting point is very different than the end point of this lot and where they say they're legal starts. So, we had a
slight issue. We do find that occasionally when you're doing individual lots. So, okay. But I think we have a path forward now that we have that new survey. I can tell you I represent the council my initial review of it is this solves and clears up the issue. Right. Great. Okay. All
right. Um, all in favor say I. I. I. I. I. I. Eyes carry. Thank you, Mr. Wallace. Um we'll go on to D2 with the uh Commerce Park final plan. Yep. The city
council reviewed this um not the last meeting but the one prior to that. Um this is a commerce park located behind the beef Brady complex that contains 14 lots. Um that evening the
engineer um was not available for questions. He is here tonight to answer any questions the council may have. So I will yield the floor to the engineer if
there are questions um that the council has. I know the main thing was regarding um vehicular traffic in terms of large trucks potentially blocking the roadway. Um, I think you can clarify that that
there should not be anything um that would be too large to fit um into the park uh in terms of delivering goods um and various items. But I will let
um him answer those questions. Okay. If the council has those. Certainly. Y'all would like to have him come forward. Yeah, if you would. Yeah. Thank you very much. Come on in. Just state your name and business. And this is De Ben Goi. I'm the engineer
of record for this project. Um we do work with uh the quantum engineering group in Tanahashi, Florida. Uh I do have experience with the DOT for 30 years in Chipley, Florida. I'm the one proudly said that I designed US98 in the
South Walton County. Mhm. Uh this project is going to have um 14 lots mainly it's for uh small businesses uh slash offices and the traffic is that's going to be generated
uh it will not generate semi traffic. We can uh we can post signs that no semis nor semis are allowed. We we can do that. And I think there was another
um another concern about the site distance. Uh I did have a preapp uh meeting with the DOT and uh because we we are going to generate traffic to the DOT
331 and they had no concern about the site distance because it in the DOT standards it does specify where you can put the trees where you can put the landscaping. So we going to meet the DOT requirement for the
uh just for the site distance. I think these these are the two concerns that you had. Okay. Go ahead. Just an observation. I went there. I actually walked back behind and then when I was leaving I kind of was trying to figure
out, okay, what's the traffic going to be like? What is the traffic going to be? It's very tight right there to come in and out of that spot right there. Um I'm not I'm not a fan of this project at all. Uh I don't know if there's a traffic study that's been done or if one
even needs to be done, but I have some concerns. Sure. We did traffic study and the traffic that's going to be generated is not going to generate semi. Uh actually when we did when we did
apply for the uh preapp meeting, one of the things that they do is they want you to they want you to upgrade the driveway for example the signage the uh they want you to they want you to upgrade the payment markings. So we got to meet the
DOT requirements. Uh plus the traffic that is is generated is not going to constitute any uh safety issues. What kind of businesses like a plumber where I mean
like those people that uh they're going to generate the traffic mainly like um UPS truck single unit. This is the maximum. This is the extreme and mainly it's going to be your vehicles. If I may, I uh speaking with
the owner, um the idea is to have a small office with a warehouse attached to it. So that say if you are a plumber, you drive your u personal vehicle there
in the morning, you've got all your supplies inside the business, you pick up your work truck, and then you leave for the day and then you come back. So there shouldn't be any public traffic generated by the way this was described.
Um, it's simply for it's a a commerce park for contractors and and those businesses, electricians, contractors, plumbers, um, just for them to have a place that they can locate and then
um, you know, leave for the day and then come back at the end of the day. Amy, what about in the future? Hypothetical when this building when the plumbers leave and we've got to lease it to somebody else. It's already there. Yeah, it's going to cause it's going to cause a problem to
me in that traffic right there. That that that lane is very tight to get out onto 331. And you can only go south. You It's not like you can go north. You can only go one way. Yeah. Unfortunately, that's uh something that uh happens with
every development. Um we can say one thing and they can turn around tomorrow and do something different. Exactly. Um you my concerns as well. Yeah. But that's um no different than any other development in the city. Yeah. Two years on the county planning
commission. They'd buy the property. They'd get everything approved and then Well, and resell it. Yeah. I understand. And what I will say is that each of these 14 lots as they are individually developed, they will
come back before the council for final approval. So this is not the last time this council will see this development as the lots development. Each one will be brought back before the council for your
consideration and review. So, this isn't the end step. There will be hopefully 14 other steps at some point in the future for the council to vote on. Yeah. And let me just say on this particular model
here, this is something that's needed really bad here in the Phoenix Springs. I can tell you for many years that uh we had to work out of uh facilities that were not made for a contractor. Uh this right here is going to help. you know, we're we're wanting
more restaurants. We want more entertainment, but we don't want the people that build all that. These are the people that put it together. Your AC, your plumber, your electrician, these type of things. And so, I'm telling you, this is a very needed uh
source for this community. And uh and if FDOT thinks that is all right to pull out on 331, I don't know that I would challenge him on that, but you certainly got the right to do that. Um, where is that study? Mayor, I I
agree with you. We We need more businesses like this, but isn't that why we have industrial parks? Well, our industrial parks uh lack a lot. Um, and um but anyway, no, this this
these are people that are much smaller than what you normally see at industrial park. These are little one, two, three man shops. uh half dozen at the most. But anyway, uh and what else you going to put back there? What's wrong with what do you
mean? Our industrial parks have a lot to be desired. I don't understand that. Well, I'm not going to say it here. Uh but anyway, we don't have a lot of land in the one city industrial park left. It's all well to put it. Yeah, it certainly is. But I mean, what else are
you gonna put in back there? You know, uh, you got to make the best use of property that's not highway frontage. Doc, Clay, this this would be a legislative funding, correct? Not quasi. No, it is. While it is not a sworn hearing, it is
still a final plan approval. Um, while you have a degree of discretion in approving this that is consistent with the general health, safety, and welfare of the city, the individual lots will come back to you as quasi judicial determinations. So it's somewhat of a hybrid scenario
that we do final the way we do final appointments. So my concerns are that this will impact traffic in the area and that is a health and safety issue.
Um my concern is that while yes, we might have to come back and approve the individual lots, the cat's out of the bag at that point. If you've already agreed to put 14 in there, you then can't come back and say, "No, you only need to put 12 because there's not enough sufficient turnaround for semis
and the like." My own personal experience owning a a business downtown. A minimal order from one of our wholesalers regularly results in a day, what do you call it? a day service
semi showing up downtown and unloading a pallet on the back on the back of their truck on Bowwin Avenue. The idea that you're going to put up a sign and only tell UPS and FedEx trucks, you know, to go back in there, I don't buy it. I think from a health and sa safety
standpoint, there's going to be semis in there. They're going to get trapped in there. There's no there's not adequate turnaround space. there's g it's going to generate additional revenue or I'm sorry additional traffic in the area that is not appropriate. So I'm I'm not in support of it for that reason.
However, I am I'm cons concerned with the messaging in that I I'm torn because I want us to be pro business. I want us to support use of the land. I I agree with the mayor
that there these kind of facilities are needed. My dad used one of these type of facilities to to operate his business on the south end for many many years and it was it it was a net positive to the economy down there and and to multiple
subcontractors that he employed. So it was a good thing. Again, I just have issues with this specific design. I really think that there there needs to be aotted maybe you ditch those last two lots at the very end and you all lot that for a semi- turnaround pad. Um I
just I want there I want to support businesses and I want businesses to feel welcome into Finiac Springs, but I just I can't Would you like to make a motion? No, sir. We're not. May I suggest that I know we've done this twice. Um, I would
hate for this to be denied without presenting that that idea to the owner. Um, so we could table it or whatever the correct term we use for that, Mr. Atinson, and bring it back. Continue it to a date uncertain to allow the owner
an opportunity to either request to move forward with the plan as presented, to accept those changes, or withdraw the plan. So moved. Second. Okay, I have a motion to second. And I just want to make a comment because, you know, I had a uh an
office building out on 331 South. And first couple of years, I didn't do anything about it. And I had semis come in there. But after that, I put up a sign right there uh before you hit the rideway, no semis. And guess what? I had no semis. I was there for 22
years. 20 of those years, no semis. But uh anyway, so it's not that difficult. Anyway, how do I get this traffic study? I can email it to you. Would you please? Yes. And I am very concerned because just as you said, I got stuck behind one
of those semis on Baldwin just the other day and it's like I have a real problem with the safety concern of exiting this uh area out onto 331. Even big box trucks. I think in this it's going to be
very difficult for them. Yeah, that's my that's my biggest concern is the tractor trailers because current owners they might they put a sign up not allow it but if that whole develop if that whole commerce park sells to somebody else they might not be willing to do that then there we are
nothing deadlier than a semi crossways across two lanes trying to back in like they do at Dunkin Donuts. And now, you know, an alternative here would be to make a larger turnaround area in there. That might be sacrificing one or two of
the potentially uh commercial buildings, I I don't know. But, uh to have them try to back in maneuver in off off 331 with the traffic we have here, that's just that's just not that's what we will the the discussion we will have with the
owner and and uh the engineer here, right? um to address that. And one one other question if I might. Is the developer of this the same do they own the beef radius plaza there? Is it the same ownership? Do not. No. So this is just an easement that narrow
driveway using it's a utility and access easement. I got you. Yeah. Okay. Thank you, Andy. Um Melinda Henderson, resident. I frequently eat at Beef Brady's and
u there is access to the north lane by going straight across and it's a very wide area that you can go one car at a time and get over to go north. The second thing is the kind of businesses he's proposing are going to come in
early in the morning where those restaurants are not functioning. So they wouldn't have that traffic and they would probably be leaving at 3:00 in the afternoon when the evening restaurants are not functioning. So I don't know if
that has anything. Thank you. Gives you any more information. Okay. Still have a motion second. Any other questions? Yes, sir. No, no questions. Go ahead. No questions. It was just confirming the motion second
the table. Did you have anything? No. Um, per Amy's request, I will make sure Raphael gets a copy of that traffic study. That way, it can be sent to all the council members. I want you all to have the same information. All right.
All in favor say I. I. Nay. This is to continue our table to to continue it indefinitely to allow the owner a chance to choose to come back with the same plan, make some changes to address concerns or to withdraw. I
I eyes carry. Thank you. Uh, Mr. Wallace, I guess that's okay. Thank you. Covers your part up. All right. Okay. Request to be on the agenda. Uh, this is Eagle's Crossing
Conceptual PDP plan. Uh, and extension extension request. All right, Cliff. Good evening, council. Uh I was the chosen one to represent CJS 331 LLC tonight. Uh Mr. Bob Stockdale
uh would be here tonight, but he had a family emergency. And so wanted to kind of just uh give you a brief overview of uh where they're at with the project. Um it is a 30-year PDP. And so it's a
little different than most projects that get approved that are one or two-year projects. It's a a 20 to 30year PDP. Um there's been discussion at several different points about uh the land development code. Your land development code right now says that you have to
provide a uh an update every six months uh to get an extension every six months. And so over a 20 to 30year period, you're talking about 40 or 60 extensions that would be required. Um Mr. Stockdale was under the impression that his attorneys were coordinating this with
Clay. Uh, apparently they have not. And so, um, the, uh, developer has agreed in writing to Mr. Kobe to pay for the additional, uh, fees for utilities on 280B, which is everything above a half a
million. I think your, uh, low bidder was at 900 and something thousand. And so, um, so with it being a 20 to 30-year project, they've got, you know, 5 something million in impact fees. They've paid the city so far. Uh they're
paying another half a million towards your utilities. And they have two very large utility projects that are in already designed that are impermitting um that have both been reviewed by Randall. Uh they're uh extending sewer
down 331 from uh basically where their um work trailer is now all the way to the South Koi Burgess uh which is about a mile south. Uh they're extending sewer down there and putting in a pump station down there. Uh they're also putting a new water line
underneath 331 uh down on that end of the project as well. That's about a $1.3 million project um that's impermanating with DOT right now. They've also designed utilities to go from the top of the hill where Veterans Lodge uh is
proposed to go all the way to the bridge. And so those are all designed as well um and in permitting. So, uh, kind of one of the issues that they have had, uh, moving forward with development of their 13-400 acres is that a lot of the
folks that they have talked with about selling property to and, uh, creating projects have, you know, thrown their arm in the in the air about utilities being readily available. And so they're hopeful that trying to get the 280B utilities completed to where at least we
have everything to 280B that some of those LOIs that they have in hand will turn into contracts. So um it's uh you know unfortunately unfortunate that they haven't moved further than they have um
and uh Mr. Stockdale apologized for not getting his extension timely, but that's where they're at. And so, um, you know, if the council, uh, would agree to an extension, then I guess we would be here every six months according to the land
development code, the way the land development code's written right now. Andy, you know, I've been here for a while and I appreciate I was very excited about this when it first came to my knowledge, but I I'm not going to support their request uh, today because
it just continues to delay. Nothing has happened. there's been plenty of time, right? And to drop the ball or I'm not I'm not sure really what happened, you know, whether somebody was supposed to get with Clay or not get to Clay. That was their responsibility and it should have occurred by now. So, I'm I'm not
going to support the just based on that alone. I understand. Understand. It is a uh a large project and um they have uh spent a tremendous amount of money trying to get things moving and uh um continue to spend money towards that
effort. So um there's about one and a half and another million there's about $2.5 million worth of utilities outside of 280B that is already designed that we have in permitting now. Um, so their kind of focus right now is to try to get
utilities to where they have, you know, land to develop and sell. How many times have they asked for an extension? Uh, quite a few times. I don't required to every six months. I don't know the exact number, but it's been quite a few times. If they don't move to detailed phase,
you have a conceptual PDP. We have approved a detailed phase for the veterans itself. Correct. But they can go forward in phases. So for the overall conceptual PDP, our code requires them to come before us every 6 months and give us an update. We offered as part of
some additional negotiations when we talked about trying to do a developers agreement that we would give them a standing approval provided they continued to work with Mr. Wallace and keep him in the loop because we were never able to come to terms that developers agreement. ultimately they wanted um a number of financial
concessions in the city that were inconsistent with anything the city had ever approved that never came to fruition. So ultimately they do have to come before you. So they will get a good number of extensions as this project evolves. Uh I do agree with Mr. and I
and I want the council to understand even in talking to their attorneys um going back to their original attorneys, not the current group they have, it would not be uncommon as part of a developer agreement or some type of buildout agreement in one of our
resolutions to give them a standing extension that requires them to stay in regular contact with planning. That is a very common tool. We've done that with other largecale PDP projects and other jurisdictions I represent. A great example behemoth Bay and Preport, but it
requires the developer to come forward and lay out what the terms of that look like and work with the city. Ultimately, what they came to the city with were request for financial considerations, development, um, entitlements, and things like this that the council said, "No, we're not going
to approve." And so, when the council declined that, they never came back with any of those standing requests for approvals that you would see on a 25, 30-year project of this nature. And I'm not saying they couldn't still do so. They could certainly can present that to
this council in the form of a developers agreement, but otherwise they're going to have to come before you every six months. So like Mr. Ner said, there going to be a lot of extensions, but they need to be showing something. Our code's designed to require them to show you what they're doing. Okay? Or they
not just keep vested in titles other than talk. What get my attention? Shoot. Okay. Mayor, go ahead. Thank you, sir. Other than talk. Yep. Has there been any dirt moved in the
last six months since you asked for the last net last extension? Well, they couldn't really do that under a conceptual. They can can't actually move dirt conceptual. Yeah, we had to get a final detailed approval for Veterans Lodge, which we now have. Um, that's
what allows them to move dirt. So, to the other the other They don't have that. They had that for the veterans lodge which is one phase. This is for everything outside of that. Yes sir. And since that time they've hired an architect that has designed the uh foundations, the structural, the
electrical, the mechanical, the plumbing, everything 100% done for 90,000 square feet of buildings. So um and I can provide that to uh Kobe or whoever you would like, but they didn't finish that until really until December of last year. And so they spent almost a
year designing all of the 90,000 square feet of buildings uh at the Veterans Lodge. And then as far as uh utilities go that I was describing earlier, we've been working on the utility extensions at those two other locations on 331 and
on from the Veterans Lodge to the bridge. We've been working on those for probably six or eight months. And so they have made substantial progress in terms of having documents to move forward. So, they got a PDP approved but didn't have building plans. They've
hired an architect and now they actually have building plans for the Veterans Lodge, which is just one small part of the PDP. That's uh basically about 150 acres and there's a total of about 1,300 acres in the project.
I would like to see this succeed. Okay. Well, let let me tell you something. They have spent probably upwards of uh $18$20 million. They may not have moved any dirt, but they came in here and they bought this property. They came in here
and they they bought their taps. They have spent tremendous amount of money on engineering design. Uh so these guys are very serious. They're just having a lot of hang-ups and it kind of, you know, well, it bothers me. Okay, let's shut down a $20 million
project cuz it bothers you a little bit. How many years has this been going on? Doesn't matter. Yes, it does. I asked, how long has this been going on? Can you just give me six or seven years? Seven years. Mhm. But there's been a lot of change of plans, been a lot of change of personnel. That doesn't lessen the
amount of money that has been invested in this thing. And uh th there this city is going to reap benefits you wouldn't believe out of this project. It's just not happening near as fast as we'd like to see it happen. Um, it's
right on the prefaces of some tremendous growth. They these guys are ready to start pushing dirt. I mean, anytime. Uh, but as a formality, they got to do this extension, make sure they don't get behind the eightball. I would hate to think that you wanted to shut this thing
down now, you know, and u, you know, I've been patiently waiting for six or seven years. How many have you been waiting? I was attending meetings when this first came to pass and I'm wondering if it,
you know, the last six months a year. To tell you the truth, the idea of is this a scam crossed my mind. Okay. I mean, we've been talking about it for seven years. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. But, uh, that doesn't less than what's been done. I'm just telling you. Uh, I've stayed
plugged into these folks and I'm staking my reputation on them. they're going to do it. And uh well, I hear your passion, nature, and you know, uh mayor and uh based on based on you, I'm going to give it
give him the benefit of the doubt. Yeah. Well, I greatly appreciate I think you you'll really appreciate Mr. Mayor Tom's got a question. Go ahead, Mr. Mayor. So I will say what I what I have said to uh to the team on a phone call in
meetings from the dis. I'm here to negotiate. I have been since 2019. So if they want to come with a developer agreement and address some of these concerns, yeah, I'm here to negotiate and I and and I would be willing to bet that there's four other council members
that are willing to negotiate as well. Number two, I disagree with the assessment of that some of these projects that are listed in the attachment as well as some of the things that you you mentioned are are your projects. For example, the
boring of the water liner to 331. That's a city project. Yeah. Yeah. And and I don't I don't believe that that constitutes activity counted towards this uh this project and extension. Again, I want to be very
clear. We as a council agreed to spend all of those impact fees that were paid that have been once again referenced here tonight on projects directly around this PDP to support it. They were the water projects
on Corey Burgess. It was the force main that runs down South Second Street. It was the lift station at Best Western. I could go the the water man under 331 that I just referenced. I could go on and on. The city has done its part in spending those fees on things that
benefit not just the city and the system, but that development. Um, I also agree disagree with this this idea that is is kind of insinuated that there's a holdup because we're not getting utilities down private property. That's
not the city's responsibility. No, zero. Full stop. not our responsibility that a a public road was built in the middle of private property and that we're somehow obligated to run utilities down there so that then development can happen. That's not our our responsibility. Zero. If I
have if I buy 1400 acres, the city's responsibility stops at that property line. So, it's funny because the last time that an extension was made, the council expressed uh frustration with with the
lack of progress and here we are again. Um, you know, mayor, I hear you that they haven't I don't know that they've invested 18 or $20 million and and quite frankly, some of this is I would say I I
would dare to say that none of this is the result of the city because the one thing that I have said for six years is this city, this council has never withheld our approval. So, it's not on the city. It's not been on the city. It's not been for a lack of the city saying
yes or no on something. The city has always approved every request that's ever come before us when it comes to this or Veterans Lodge. I I want that to be on the record again. But I am I I I agree with my fellow council members. I am I am frustrated with the lack of actual
progress. You know, we we've heard about Veterans Lodge now for seven plus years. Yep. And and not what, six months ago, we approved the plans for it. And I'm glad to hear that that that that is progressing, that those plans are progressing, but we've been hearing
about it. Yeah, I understand. I I'd be happy to provide you guys with a copy of the architecture plans for all of the buildings so that you can see that they actually have completed construction plans for the buildings. But I I am more interested, this is me, and I I would, you know, I'm not going to speak for my
other four council members, but I'm here to negotiate. I would like to see us enter into a developer agreement so that we can get some actual development going out there, not just extensions on a PDP. Yeah, I understand. I I think I'm offering an olive branch and that is
let's get a developer agreement. Let's get some of this stuff locked in and agreed to and let's actually see some actual stuff built because I do believe that there's a massive potential out there. I do believe that that that there's good that will happen out there. Well, they they did um excuse if I
could, Mayor. Sure. I would say that uh they sent uh Kobe a letter uh Friday, an email to Kobe on Friday, basically asking what form of agreement um needed to be in place for them to cover the half million dollars beyond your bid on 280B. And they are
ready and willing to sign whatever form of agreement you guys would request for them to be able to pay that. I think that's great progress. That's a sign of good faith for sure. Yes, sir. And yeah, I got that today at today at 10 o'clock. Spoke to Mr. Atinson about that. Okay. Just earlier
today. So today, Monday at 10. Okay. Is there Mr. Mayor, you have some Go ahead. She was first. Go ahead. Go ahead. Is there a motion on the table? No, ma'am. I want to make a motion. Can we Can we adjust this to six month to give them one month
extension? Uh, Clay, can we can I make a motion that I I want to modify what they're asking for to only authorize one month to where they've got to come back with significant Well, then I think what you would do, the better thing to do would be to lay
on the table for one month with the condition, they come back showing you whatever progress you want because the code just says they're supposed to get they're supposed to get approvals every six months. So rather than change the ordinance, just lay it on the table for one month and say, "We'll take it back up when you come back with more
information." I I just need something significant from these folks to show they're really going to do something on that property out there or in 30 days from now, we'll find out. It'd be later. Well, I'm willing I'm willing to give 30 days, but I'm not
willing to give six months. Will you make that a motion? Yes. Second. I'll have a motion. second. Are we tableabling? We're tableabling it for 30 days. Okay. So, it'll be the second. So, what this will be is that we will come back uh we'll come back at our
second meeting. So, you're saying I'm tableabling it because I was thinking I'm only giving them a month. So, you're saying don't do anything with this. What I'm saying is says they are required to get they're required to come and present extensions every six months. So, if you
give them an extension, you're giving them the extension. The code doesn't give you the one-mon choice. So, let's give them a 30-day window and then don't give them motion to table will give us the opportunity. Give them the opportunity in 30 days bring us something substantial back that we can
move with. Okay. Yeah. I would just I would just ask that you guys keep in mind that the PDPs for the whole 1350 acres, it's not just one piece of it. It's the whole 1350 acres that's out there. Sure. But but in in my opinion like let let's engage with some actual
developer agreements, you know, let's let's have some substantive Yeah, that'll be that'll be Mr. Stockdale. I'm not the negotiator for him by any means, but but certainly Mr. Stockdale would be happy to come meet with you guys and tell them tell you guys uh what they've got going. Um there's a lot of stuff
that they have going that they don't really tell me because some of that's you know information related to deals that they're working on. And so, uh, he may be, uh, in a position to be able to tell I'll help you out. I don't think the council's particularly concerned about potential real estate deals
they're in. I think they're more concerned about the overall project timeline development. And understand that may affect some of those, but somebody might be buying and somebody might not be buying. It's not what they're I think they're asking. Yeah, Mr. Mayor. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. There's no
doubt that we've invested a lot or past councils have. Um, they've invested a lot. I don't think anybody drops that kind of money that's not serious about about a project. I don't know the history of all the delays, but I see here permit delays, 14 months waiting on
permits, da I don't know how all that happened or what that process is for a project this large, but things do happen. Uh, my biggest concern, I want to go forward with it. I think everybody seeks that. The whole community wants to see it. I mean, we we'd be foolish to
just let it drop off the table at this point, uh, in my view. But, um, the, uh, legislative grants is my question. Uh, for wastewater treatment plant, water main extension, those grants, are there any timelines that tied to any of those
or somebody explain that to me for these project, the legislative appropriation for the utilities? Is that what is Yeah. Yeah. She's got a whole list on Well, see, that's part of my problem is they're kind of claiming our stuff as their their activity. Okay. But we got these grants, correct? We got a
legislative appropriation for utilities on 280B for $500,000 and that is an agreement. You just extended that until June 30th of 2026. Correct. Right. Okay. So, is there a completion deadline on
that? Is construction dollars. So the state wants that money spent by June 30th or 26th. So you guys, right? Yes, sir. So So you guys got a a legislative grant for a half million. Uh we took bids. Bids came in at 96097,000. 997,000.
The council voted that you would spend up to a half a million dollars and the developer would have to pay for anything in excess of that. And so that's what they conveyed to Kobe is that they're happy to pay the difference, which is roughly a half million dollars, call it. Um, but they also paid for the survey
design and permitting on that half million dollar grant so that you guys didn't have to come out of any of the 500,000 for survey design and permitting. So, they paid for that as well. Okay. So, as far as our risk of losing any of that grant or having to
repay it, is there a risk to us? Say again, Council. Is there a risk of any of that grant money that we would have to repay if this project is not completed by that time or it's not completed? We either ask for extension or we give it back to the state of Florida.
Use it or lose it. Yeah. The project already has gotten a contingent award I think from the council. The council awarded it contingent on the developer coming up with the additional funds which they have agreed to. And basically right now they're just saying tell us what you want us to what form of
agreement to sign or authorize or whatever. and they're happy to move forward, which would allow you guys to issue the notice of award and the agreement to the contractor to get work started. And that that increased amount was for that 16inch water man we talked
about, right? Well, so the 997 is the bid for the 16inch water man, which is the main that's project cost. There was an alternative for a downgrade to a 12 in, which would have been like a $102,000 cost savings. The council did not elect to do that. They wanted to keep the 16inch water main that it was
designed in the project. That's what we did. So the project is 997,000 and some change and they're picking up that difference. They're picking the difference from 500. Kind of the thought the thought was that at some point uh maybe waters extended all the way to county road 28A which
would allow the city to go north and south on 28A all the way through the property uh to the far east end is was the idea. Y at some point because there's no water out there right now. You okay with this, Mayor? Um, mayor.
Yeah, I think we're just tableing. I think it I think when Mr. Stompell shows up, he'll be able to guarantee us some some movement. There may even be some before then. Well, he may need to be at this next board meeting when Kobe brings the bid back and we're talking about
that money we're just talking about right there. So, that'll be your first meeting you may see. Mr. Stockdale called me last week uh Thursday or Friday and said, you know, whatever form of agreement the city wants for the 280B utilities if somebody
will just send it to him. He'll have Mr. Low execute it. Is this gentleman like local? Can he come to that last this next meeting? He actually works out of Missouri, but you know, I'm sure that he will find a way to make it here. I would personally like to hear what he has to
say about that this project when we meet again. Sure. Absolutely. I will convey if he's asking for another extension. I would like to, you know. Yep. I will convey that to him. Thank you. Yep. Okay. So, we
have a a motion for a 30-day table. Yes, sir. Um and a second. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Any other questions? All in favor say I. I. I. I. I. I. Thank you all. Thank you all very much. All right.
Okay, now we're going to go to citizen comments. Um, if you want to make a comment, please come to the podium, state your name, and if you're representing a business organization, please state that as well. My name is Melinda Henderson. I'm um
representing Forward Definiac. The triathlon is scheduled this weekend. We have 100 registrants and we need support from our community in the form of spectators. Please come bring your lawn chair and your noise
makers because when you make enough noise that makes them move faster. So, oh well, they start the swim at 7:00 when after the mayor opens it. Um, but you don't have to come at 7. You can
come and see the bicyclers a little later or the runners a little later, but it'll all be over but the shouting by 10:30. Where's the finish line? Thanks. Anyone else? How you doing, honorable mayor? I'm Donald L. Graham, local the Fun Springs
businessman. And uh I'm just coming in support businesses here in the f I mean this this tableabling the land it's going to cost contractors to take that business to Crest View or Chipley and people around the Funac. I'm here every day looking for somewhere to go. uh
contractors, uh electricians, stuff like that. A little shop behind um the uh places man want do already approved it. I mean, that's a professional organization that deals with safety. So, I don't think that
should be a issue, but it's just like you just keep kicking the can down the uh road. I'm a local businessman and I'm want businesses to come in our great city. So, mayor, we appreciate what you doing. We know you know what you doing. We see it. So, we want to give our kids
somewhere to go. If I need a plumber or or maintenance man, it's it'll be a shop right here in the Phoenix instead of calling from Crestfield football. So, I'm a little little just upset cuz you know a businessman like me sometime when you delay delay delay you lose a good
deal. So, I hope you understand what I'm saying. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you very much. Anyone else? Please, Chief, don't come back up here. [Laughter] All right, we'll close the floor for
comments and we will go to the uh attorney. Anything else? Okay, Kobe, quick, mayor, uh, council, we talked last time about having chapter 11 before you today. I spoke to Mr. Atinson. We've got we missed some some notice deadlines. So, we will notice
those and have those for the first meeting in May for chapter 11. So, a little more time to review that and if you haven't read it yet, you have plenty of time to read it. So, following on the Monday, first Monday, the way it breaks in the month of April will make it easier. Okay. Uh second, we should have
back by next meeting a contract for the LDC update. So, Chris Wallace is working with Kimley Horn on that. So, we should hope to have that back to the council by next meeting. Uh Cliff's already talked about the 280B contract. Um, we will have that back next meeting, May 12th,
and the developer has agreed to pay that difference. So, we'll work that out. And then lastly, Lakefest, May 9th through the 10th. So, be sure to be there. I think it's going to be a good one. It's been a lot of time and effort put into it. Um, and so May 9th and 10th. Thank
you very much. Okay. All right. We'll go to the council with Mr. Cons. No, that's Amy. Clarification. Is is the last meeting in May the Memorial Day holiday and are you guys closed and do we need to change it?
Let me look. I work two weeks out. Thank you. I know. Thank you. I just noticed it because I I'm going to be out and I want to make sure. It is 26. It is Memorial Day. Thought we moved that earlier in the year. Didn't you set your maintenance? We'll look at it. We'll have some back
on next agenda if it needs to be cancelled or removed. I think which will make somebody tell is Cliff Oh, Cliff's still here because that'll change. If we move it, we'll let you know. Yeah, I think we already moved. I'll have to check the website on noticed on the 26th, so that's why I'm
just double checking. So, thank you. Okay, I'm good. Um, I'd like to clarify a couple of things. Um, I'll talk to any citizen about any subject. That doesn't mean I agree with
them. It doesn't mean I I disagree with them. I'm gathering information. I'm just gathering information. So, um, there was someone who approached me who was an advocate for, uh, dissolving our fire
department and turning it over to the county. And um I thought that was kind of out there because my understanding is Mike Atkinson doesn't want the fire department and he doesn't want the
police department. Um can you back me up on this Clay? I've not directly asked the sheriff. I've not directly asked the sheriff that, but I can tell you the sheriff has previously when these conversations come up made it very clear that he'll assist any of the cities in
any way they ask. but he's not looking to take over additional territories or departments. He's got plenty to do on his own front. Okay. So, he told me that, too. So, the the sheriff isn't interested in it. So, that shouldn't even be a discussion. I don't even know why we're talking about
um why people are interested in getting rid of our fire department or our police department. Uh but I did learn get some interesting statistics while I was talking to people and that was um the response time for our city uh police
department and our city fire department um are really really good and that the response time uh with county emergency uh doesn't come anywhere close. So, I'm a big advocate of uh keeping our fire
and police department and I believe uh that's enough said for this subject. Uh the other thing is um and and and when I hear things out there, I want to set the record straight. Um I'm an advocate of volunteer fire departments, uh Liberty
and Argyle, and I think they play a a really major role in our community. Um, so I just want to get that on the on the record. Um, next subject. Would y'all be
interested in um moving uh the order of our agenda around so that like the county they start off their BCC meetings by saying if there's anybody here that uh would like to say something that is already an
agenda item. What that does is it keeps that citizen from having to sit there for hours and then finally get up during public comment. Like if somebody wants to say something right now,
um that's fine. This is open. This is any subject that they want to talk about. But at the beginning, let that person talk about what's on the what's on the agenda because they they've got kids at home. They got things to do. and
that would be a little bit more um considerate to our citizens. Um and something else the county does that that I like the idea is right before adjournment, the last thing the BCC does
is that's where they insert public comment. So, would y'all entertain mirroring what the county is doing as far and and and that's a that's a a courtesy and convenience for our citizens.
So, you're basically the first one is comment, but it's on the agenda. It's got to be on something that's on the agenda that they cannot stay here and and wait like they've got, you know, personal problems, issues, uh PTO meeting, uh
little league, you know, Girl Scouts, anything. But, uh they they don't want to sit here for hours. Uh so they you give them the opportunity to talk about something that's on the agenda. And y'all have seen enough BCC
meetings where you know what I'm talking about. Well, I can certainly be thinking about it. We're not going to make that decision during our comment time. Could I get some feedback from my fellow councilman? Well, I'll tell you this is that, you
know, we have moved this thing around numerous times over my 12 years. So, uh, so it's movable, you know, it's movable. Uh and we used to have our comments very last thing and uh we all we did we just moved it up there in front of the
council. You know every everything that was request to the public. Yeah. Everything else is over with and uh so uh it's kind of toward the end anyway. Uh, I'll let you guys get on something that takes 30 minutes, but uh, but up
front, I' I'd have to have the council weigh in on that. I don't know. U, if it were people that just really needed to go and that's all that did that probably a decent idea, but I'm afraid we're gonna we may load up the front end
with a whole lot of talk. Well, the same talk would be at the end of the meeting, but we're putting the citizen to an inconvenience. It's got to be something on the agenda. Well, I think sometimes whenever we bring an item up,
um, our discussion here will explain a lot to the public uh that they may even eliminate some questions uh because they're going to be asking questions. And now upfront and is the is does the commission weigh in on it? If we do
that, the rule will be no. There's no feedback. Okay. So, the public would be making comments. They would not be asking questions. So, we wouldn't engage them back and forth at that point. It's make a comment, say their piece, and go. Well, I don't have a problem. And they would be leaving the meeting. You guys don't.
I just We can't vote, but just what do you think with a head nod or yay nay? Is that something that's a problem or I'm always willing to do something that's better for the public? Sure. You know, we're here to serve them. So, if they just come up, say they're, you know, nothing more than
three minutes and sit down and we don't engage, then I don't have a problem with that. Think about it. What do you think, John? I think that the the current system allowing them to comment when we get to
the uh particular item and have discussion and allow the the the public to hear all of the information and consideration of the council. I think that is that is the appropriate way to to run the meetings. Um, I I think that
having I think that the count the public and the council have a good dialogue when when it when it's kept together. Putting it at the front, the end, the middle, in between. I I don't see where that helps. Okay. Why don't you just bring it up as
a motion the next meeting and see where it goes? It doesn't sound like it's going to get detraction. So, I' I'd rather save the time. I'd rather save rather save the time. Okay. Anything else? No, sir. Thank you very
much. All right. Thank all you guys. And uh Miss You're trying. You're trying. You're trying. You tried. You tried. Miss Mayor, I did I did want to bring up um there was there was a discussion at the I believe it was the joint CRA meeting
about a letter to oppose uh Senate Bill 991. Um just wondered if maybe highlight what that is. Senate bill 91 9991 is the basically the the evisceration of the CRAAS but my take on it and this is the
take that I I personally spoke to not as a council member but I p personally spoke to the CRA about was I believe it is an attack on home rule and local control. Um, so I believe that we should authorize the mayor to write a letter in
opposition to Senate Bill 991 because it is a it is attack on home rule and and local control. It is it is an erosion of th those those principles. Now, does anybody have an objection to the mayor sending such a letter? I'd like to know what Yeah, I don't either.
991 is a bill proposed in the legislature that would um there are a few different versions that have been talked about a few changes but ultimately it would eliminate CRAAS or start the process of eliminating them. It would at its most extreme version restrict CRAAS from taking out new debt
service effective immediately and basically move them all towards a sunset faster than where they already are. Um mo some versions do allow majority vote of the board to extend them just like we currently do. I think the the one thing that I was concerned about was it it
would then dictate from a state level who could be on the CRA. One version of it was dictating that the council would be the CRA. I I think we should be able to to determine that on our own. I think that's an erosion of home rule and and
local rule. Can the council sell bonds? Yes, you can issue bonds. I think the biggest issue is the overreach. is the state saying exactly what the local governments will and won't be able to do rather than leaving that up to you. And
we're running out of time. Yeah. So, I mean, it's not something I think we can wait for next meeting. Mayor, it's within your authority to issue something on your own letter as the mayor if you want, but if the council doesn't generally oppose it since it was discussed there, we don't need a motion.
Okay. Is anybody opposed to the mayor signing us as well? I don't have an opposition as far as the mayor writing letters. I have a I have an opposition of I haven't had an opportunity to read it. So, I don't like to just give generic yes or no without reading exactly what it is. A lot of this comes
from the Liberty Partners emails that they send out to us giving us updates on these. Well, I do read that, but I've not read the entire bill. And for me, it's like, you know, words matter. Yeah. I think we put a lot of work in working with the CRA. These workshops have been
very productive. I think we're about to hit a stride, you know, with CRA being very useful um and figuring out what they can do. So, I think that's in our purview, you know, to keep working at that and make it successful. Yeah. Got your direction, mayor? Yeah. Thank you,
sir. Thank you, mayor. All right. Thank you, everyone. We're going to call this meeting a journ. You get hit on that gap. Paul wanted to make sure we got the clear before you Part: 2
All right, we call this budget workshop to order and um it is Monday, April the 28th, 2025 and Kobe will flip it to you. Thank you, mayor. Mayor, councilman council
one. Um, this our first budget workshop kickoff. Uh, really this is for the council to kind of have a opening conversation about the upcoming year and some of the things y'all would like to see in the direction for staff and thanks for bringing back, you know, getting cost estimates and stuff of the
like. So, one of the um probably the main thing that I'd like to get out of today is to establish a couple objectives for the budget. There probably four or five of those. For example, number one, I'm assuming would be infrastructure for everyone. If that's the case, that would be number one. And then we could work off of that.
So through all our conversations today, at the end of try to pair them down to four or five main objectives so we have some some goals and directives for the year. So that's what we're here for. Mayor and staff's here. I'll try to answer all y'all's questions we can. We'll call we'll call them up to ask. Danielle's here as well. Put up some
numbers. So it's open. Okay. But on the infrastructure, you've uh have you got some main projects or continuations that you you obviously our big ones, you know, definite definite line. Um we have the
bids coming back next meeting to get engineer on board to start designing that AC water main. We're finishing up the loan application now with D to bring that back to the council. Hopefully get that bid out here in the couple months for design of that as well. That's some big ones. And then obviously the ones
we're currently attacking right now, which is this the del press, which is a separation solid plant. Um Kyle working with Kyle on looking at the condition of our pumps at those stations, the wet wells, the plant itself, the spray field, the water treatment plant. So
we're working on that currently to bring back conditions on that stuff. Okay. Now on the wastewater plant, you're talking more about conditions, not expansion, right? Correct. So, uh, any any things there currently that need to be fixed,
replaced, um, for current condition? Yes. Okay. Do I have questions or concerns? You know, me, mayor, I'm going to have it. So, well, let's stick with infrastructure right now if you want to.
But I think there's a more basic issue that we have to discuss and decide upon before we can even do that, which is if property values are increased and 95% of it's going to go outside of our hands, are we going to do anything to get some of that money back to uh work
on some of these things that we have to do such as the ablu and the wastewater plant condition? You want to talk about revenue? Well, I want to be Yes. If if property values have increased even slightly, 95% of it's not going to come here. It's
going to be coming here and going right back out. So, well, I know this something we've been talking about for a little while. Um, what just off the top of your head, Kobe, revenue sources that we we think
are going to improve or we haven't had before? Um I don't know there's any I don't know there's any new ones. Um you got your natural increase uh what revenues we hope it would be every year. Uh we're going to bring back here soon hopefully
uh changes to the planning fee review which would only affect that revenue for planning fee reviews. But other than that I don't see us having any new source of revenue outside of our existing more so than that just the adorum than
and our regular other income. Go ahead. Well, well, when it comes to revenue, I I literally had on my list u the planning fees. I think I think that's a a huge thing for us to not have to shoulder that for developers. You know, if we're if we're incurring an
expense to to pay to have the plans reviewed, then we need to pass that along to the developer. We don't need to be shouldering that expense. Um, the other thing that I really wanted um wanted to bring up was the amount that we are reimbursed from the county
sir tax per can per trash can way back when we signed the waste management agreement uh what was that four years ago now I think we're coming up on because we're coming up on the renewal for it. Yeah. The council was promised at that time that we would go to the
county and get that upped to where it was the same amount as what we are being charged by waste management so that it it would present a budget neutral option. That's never been done. Every year it gets brought up. Every year it's oh yeah yeah we'll do that in July. We
keep duh and then magically it never happens. And then we have to transfer money into sanitation to make sanitation solvent. So I I am adamant that that be accomplished this year that we we evaluate that. Now to me there's two
paths. The simple straightforward path is we just simply address that with the county and say you're you're reimbursing Paxton and Freeport that amount. We want the same amount. That's path number one. Path number two is we perform an actual analysis on what that looks like in
terms of us uh keeping that money instead of shipping it off to the county every year or every month. And then we we just simply pay for the the landfill fees as we incur them. And my understanding and and this is what was
told to me five plus years ago was we have all the the tickets every time we go out there. So performing that analysis should be fairly straightforward for us to be able to know, you know, we take x number of thousand pounds of trash out there in the landfill. So if we keep the money
because we know what that is year-over-year pretty consistently in sales tax dollars, then we should be able to say, okay, it's worth it to stay in theou or it's worth it to to break theou and and keep that money for ourselves. Because typically at the end
of the year we end up with the county writing us a check back for I think it hovers right around 800,000 to a million dollars but that always comes back at the end of the year versus we keep that money every month when it's dispersed
from the department of revenue from the state. So th those on the revenue side I would say those are my two big things. Yeah you know there was some confusion about that for a long time. Uh I don't know Daniel, do do we feel like that now even if it's a oneshot deal at the end
of the year as he was just talking about. Do we know if that's the amounts that we get back is that what is that based on? What's a formula? You know, because I've always heard it's been it's not been real discreet. It's been kind of like whatever they send you, you
know. Yes. You mean the answer? You can answer. So, so if you look at their local mayor, there's in there, there's already an automatic distribution from do that's through state statute. But then there's a second layer to our agreement that we then send it to the county and then the county gives it back
to us how we have it written. Well, we've had it broken down per month and a year we get whatever's left. Um, but we there's the allocated amounts already done from DR. It's already established and it's done by the clerk's office, the clerk court's office. So, it comes out. Um, so one of the things I know the
county I was going to get with the county, but then I know Commissioner Curry brought it up and the committee the county board of county commissioners are looking at looking at all interlocal agreements. So I was waiting for the county to reach out to us to talk about a number of them. But I can follow back up with Stan on this particular one and
Melissa the CFO about updating the interlocal for sanitation. But the distribution that's a question I have for Miss Thomasson is you know what percentage of it are we getting back every year? if if 100%'s coming to us throughout the year and we're sending you 100% of what we receive. Are we getting 100% back or are we getting 85%
back, 75? And so that's something I'll sit down with her about. Danielle and I sit down the CFO and talk about and make sure we're getting 100% back. You're not getting 100% back. Not 100%. But but I think that that addresses that could potentially because some of the other council members, particularly
Councilwoman Heavlin, has echoed a same concern that I have had in years past, which is a cash flow uh concern. And so by not shipping that money off to the county every single month and having that here within our reserves would certainly help us from a cash flow
perspective. But this is in no way, shape or form any kind of u issue with the county or anything derogatory meant towards the county. You know that they've been very generous with us and we want to continue to work with them. want to make that very very
clear in this meeting that that is in no way, shape or form any sort of derogatory remarks towards the county. It's just simply us looking at ourou from our side, from an objective perspective, from a statistical perspective and saying this is the money we're bringing in. This is the money we're getting out. Is there a better way
for us as a city to use that money? Because that that as Kobe just said, that money comes to us first. Well, I'm just Yeah, go ahead. Well, I wanted to also say that the cash flow is going to become very much more noticeable this
year because we're breaking out our financials based on last year's audits and moving forward. They're now breaking out the airport and some other things outside of the general fund. So, that cash flow is going to become very important for us moving forward to have
it in our grip. So what he's saying is really important because uh that you'll we'll we'll feel it more uh in the coming year. Well, and in years past we we felt it when we had a budget that was
very grant heavy. Right. So at 28 2019 2020 we were extremely grant over 50% of our budget was grant based and reimburseable probably correct which meant we had to spend the money and then we had to wait to get it back and in some instances as the mayor can attest
that that those timelines extend out for a long time which is cash that the city has to be out and is not in our bank account. So um yes I I agree with Councilwoman Heaven's assessment on that. So, is that 800,000 strictly from sanitation that we get back at a year?
Yes, sir. My my understanding is it's the 1 cent sir tax that Walton County levied specifically for the purpose of waste collection countywide. Mhm. And then my understanding of the mechanics of it, I wish I wish Clay was here to maybe clarify this so I don't speak
wrong of this, but my understanding is just like for example um last year or the year before when we had to agree to allow the mosquito control district to levy that tax within the municipality. We had to agree to allow that one sir
tax to be levied within the municipality. And as part of that agreement, we then worked out theou with with the county on the reimbursement rate, etc. So that that's that's the origin of it. Yes, sir. Yes, ma'am. I forgot. Uh Kobe, what was
the auditor's comment last year? Was it in reference to this particular issue? Yeah, that was one of them which we which we corrected when we did the the U transfers from the amended budget or supplemental budget. We did a supplemental budget. We we amended it.
Then if you remember the sanitation fund had a $700,000 deficit from years of this so this is this has been happening for years. This is how the process works. But what was happening Daniel correct me is at the end of the year when that surplus was given back to the city that 800 900,000 whatever it was they were staff at the time was taking
it straight from the county to the general fund. They were overstepping the sanitation fund and not trueing it up end of the year because of that shortfall we have every month because of the difference in the reimbursement. And so there was a shortfall. So in this year's supplemental, we took money out of water and sew reserves to balance that that out because we were 7,000 in
the hole. Is that correct? Right. From the losses that we've sustained throughout the Yeah. the money was getting sent straight to the general fund and not trueing up. I think it's a really important that we try to get that back into our uh checkbook every month and just keep it here and come up with a
different arrangement to you know if we need to work with the county we will but we need to keep that here first. I'll follow back up with Stan Melissa faster than what the county is doing with the locals in general. And I certainly agree with uh Todd about the uh we we want to
maintain and we got a great relationship with the county. They've been very very good to us and uh but we want to make sure that you know things are calculated if you will correctly and
and on on the on timely because the second thing I was going to bring up if you you want to move on to it is to the road and bridge tax. Um I don't know I haven't kept up what their annual payments are. Um, I'll just go back real
quick and just reference when I first came here, it was upwards of $100,000 a year. And then it went down to in the 60s and because we used to hire ARC to do a lot of our road cleanup and uh and
they that's that p they were like 55 or 56,000 just for them and that's how we paid them. And then there was a little glitch came up unfortunately between us and the county and some folks had some uh some of the
some of our agreements kind of either put on pause or dissolved. And that particular expense, the road and bridge tax went to zero dollars. I believe it was probably around
2016, possibly 17, I don't know. And uh anyway, our interim manager at the time, he went back the next year to negotiate with him. And he came in here skipping like, you know, uh the hero of the West.
He got us $29,000 a year. And I thought, "Wow, aren't you something? You're a real negotiator." But uh and to my knowledge, I don't know that it's increased. 45. 45. Yeah, pull it up now. It's based on their budget, their road maintenance
budget, if I understand right. She sent me an email because she said the amount was going to stay the same. She hadn't paid me yet this year and she was saying that it's on its way and this is how she calculated it and it was the same amount as last year. That's better than I thought. It's not good. I'd like to see.
I don't know. Um, I've often wanted to know how they calculated that because, you know, they get so many dollars per mile. Yeah. So, we're trying to pull up the list. So, at the end of the interlocal, the last time we did was in October 23 when they added
280B. I'm trying to find that attachment because it has the formula on the bottom of it and it'll tell you how to put it in. It'll punch out. That's how you get your dollar amount. I just wanted to make sure they discriminate between uh roads out in the county which have no curbs, no sidewalks,
and the streets within the city because that's what it's all about. It's what's within the city. And we maintain sidewalks, curbs, u a whole lot more than they do on a regular county highway. And so I would
hope that the per mile price per foot, however they do it, is considerably more within the city limits of Punia. So the actual for 2022 2023, if this is the correct one, the local road and bridge was 65,000 and then for 2023
2024 we budgeted 50,000. You had two payments that you got in that first year that you're referencing. That's some of the book work. I didn't have anything to do with it. You got two, they didn't book a receivable for the year before. There's two payments in there and I'll go get that email, forward it to you,
and um I'll run a detail on that account. Okay. And I'm not trying to get us down to the dollar amount today. I just wanted to make sure that u they're handling that fairly. We could talk and ask them. I I'm I'm trying to
think if there's anybody else in the county they even do this with. So I don't know they would even have another formula to reference or an amount because I think they maintain all the other roads. I know they maintain Freeport and Paxton. So I don't know they have any other one they you know I don't think there's a comparison. Yeah. So I just had to ask them. Yeah. because
you know what that was kind of a little bit of a joke of the the guy I just mentioned who did the negotiating for us and one of the administrators of the county uh that had a fairly high position certainly
wasn't the administrator but uh he it was kind of laughable to them how this guy took such a low number at $29,000 and uh and he was looking at something closer to the 100 mark,
but this our guy walked away with 29,000. And so I I don't know where that number ought to be, but I'd like to know. Yes, ma'am. Kobe, is there other revenues or interlocal agreements between us and the county or any other
entity that we have this kind of true up only once a year where we don't really gather the money ourselves in advance? We can take a look. I'm not aware of I'm not a aware of one. I want take a look. I think it's the only one that this is like that with. Um but we can check, but
I'm pretty sure it's the only one that's like that. Okay. Yeah, we do. The rest of them come directly to us from the Yeah, they're like the agreement we do with the state here recently updated for road maintenance of state highways. They will just pay us directly every year. Same thing with the signal lights and
all that. So, we can look at your local. I'm pretty sure this is the only one we have where it's the come in, go out and get back. That's a very unique situation. Okay. Now, it's not government, but what about our local utilities? Uh I don't know that I've ever asked, are they are they paying?
They are. We have utility tax for electricity was 635,000. Tax on water was 360,000. Tax on gas was only 15,000. That seems really low on that, but that totals to a million dollars. But I'm speaking
specifically about the use of our rideways. In other words, the cable companies, the power companies. Uh, well, they also have like a franchise fee. So, in electric, we collected 285,000 in franchise fees, franchise fees last year.
So, is that is that gold power only or is that gold power and waste management? Because we have a electric so it should be it should be Chelco and FPL. Okay. We need to look at what Waste Management's permitting because there
was a franchise fee clause in franchise fee for waste management is not in here. $35,000. That seems low on what they're collecting. And our our contracted amount with them
was one point was 1,130,000 is what we budgeted this year. What drawing item are y'all looking at? This is really the budget. It's page 68 under the sanitation. I'm not looking at that budget, but I have her Excel spreadsheet. So, I am looking at the revenue.
It's in the sanitation. It's in the sanitation section. Oh, okay. I'm only looking at the general. Yep. Yep. Kobe. Yes, sir. Citizens that live in the city, we pay city taxes and county taxes. Yeah, correct.
Are we getting is is the city of Phoenix Springs um are we getting our fair share of county services based on the taxes that we're paying the county? Uh, for example, um, they don't have to man, they don't
have to adjust their sheriff's department employees, deputies in our city because we have our own police department. Mhm. The same with fire rescue, but we're still paying the
county taxes. Are we getting everything? Are we getting our money's worth from our taxes from the county? I we would have to take a look at all the existing interlocals with the county if that's what you're asking and and see um you know what those are and how we support county,
county supports us. But uh in terms of physical dollars given to the city for those taxes collected, we don't we don't get anything for that. No. In terms of physical payment, um but I would have to look at their local agreements and see what services they provide to us and
what we provide to them. I I don't know about Freeport. Um, you know, because Freeport used to have fire, they never have had police, but they did have fire in a uh I think about 11 or 12 years ago, they sold it to the county.
Actually, they swapped it out for some massive debt they had to the county. Uh, but uh uh Dest, you know, pays a big fee to the county for the police coverage. I don't know if Freeport pays the county
anything or not. No, I I don't know. That's um And I was going to say, you would think so, but to be to have their police Yeah. coverage done by the county. Um and it's not just it's not
just fire and police. It's um Freeport and Paxton, they don't have um a public works squad for that do roads and the county takes care of all their roads. So, should they be taking care of our
roads, too? Well, we getting a little deep into this. I think Paxton's got a they got some people they pay to do the ride ofways, but I don't think that they maintain the roads like you're talking. I don't think they do. They do in Freeport though. Correct. And if they do
in Freeport, you think they would in Paxton. Have you seen what I think you are? Are you talking mowing or are you talking actual like asphalt repair? Asphalt. My my understanding from what I heard recently that the discussion at the BCC level was that Freeport has a agreement
with the county that the county does all of their maintenance as long as they buy the material. So they pay Freeport has a pretty sweetheart deal where they pay for the asphalt. Okay, now we're getting actually executes all of the actual labor. Now we're getting somewhere. Do
you think we could get that sweetheart deal, too? Sounds like to me the county wasn't too happy that they had agreed to that. But they do like collecting our city uh our taxes from our city um citizens.
Yes, sir. [Music] Go ahead. I'm sorry. Uh Kobe, are you planning on uh salary increase. Oh, yeah. We we would take a look at what the cola was prior year, this current year, fiscal year going into it.
So, what would a 1% cost us? Oh, I'd have to we could do the math. You know, last year uh 3% was uh somewhere around 320,000 across the board. So, so it's it's going to be 100 plus% every 1% that you're going to give roughly. Yes. Okay.
So, we can do the I mean, this isn't going to be that difficult to figure out how much money are we going to have over a prior year to spend and how much are these natural increases going to cost us to to really know how much are we going to
have in excess to y go geared towards these projects that we want to accomplish. I think that's a good segue into what I have written down here. Okay. Flat budget. flat budget. So, we take we take all of
the numbers from last year that we're currently operating under, we bring them over to this year. We the only thing that gets adjusted is revenue and anything that we're contractually obligated to increase. So, so there's no other
adjustments. In other words, we're not buying extra paper clips. We're not buying an, you know, an extra vehicle this year. And I think we're going to be negative, right? Exactly. That's my point is to start off with a flat flat budget so that we understand where we're
starting from from one year to the next because the only thing that you're realizing with with my idea of a flat budget is any any sort of revenue increases that just organically happen, right? Like like you said, tax taxable increase, taxable value increase would
be pretty much the only thing. So that then sets the stage for okay, are we still in the red or are we in the black? Where do we need to cut? Because the other thing I have written down here is transfers. $3 million almost in
transfers is what we did in the current year. It's like 2 2.8. [Music] [Applause] I think we've got to get transfers under control. Well, to do that, we have to get expenditures under control. My first
thing my first thing is going to be could we please have a discussion on where we I'd like to see us take that 95% that goes from the increases to CRA down to 50% at least for two years so we
can get some of the things that we've got to get taken care of taken care of. What what are the feelings of my fellow council members on that? Because that's the minimum we can go to as my from my
understanding of reading that statute considering the budget we're trying to put in place and the challenges we've got. I'd support that.
Clear down to 50%. Yes. There is one thing I would like to see the CRA do that. But we can't control what they do. We can only control what what leaves our hands that goes into theirs. That we can
control. Something that we discussed out at the community center last time is it would be a big plus for the business community um to do the back alley
project. And right now I think they've got $1.3 million currently in the bank in the CRA budget that they haven't spent. And I was kind of hoping that the
majority of that could go to the back alley project because it's way overdue. But see, we can't control that. That's not within our purview. That's the CRA. That's what they want to do. But they're asking us, you know, we're not they're not telling us tell them what to do. They're actually asking us what we would
like to see them do. And felt like they were in pretty much agreement. Uh if that's what we thought was best, but we're not going to dictate to them how they spend the money. But uh I think they were asking what we
thought about it. So for this year the CRA received 913,812 of Avalorum taxes. And how much did we receive? 1 million1,357,699 all together.
That's what this a million3 less 900 to that million. That was our total collection. Okay. So it was 2 million. It was over over two. It' be like 2.2. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. So, if we if we have it, you're only gaining
$500,000. 450 now. I I get that. But it's still I I think half a million more than what we've got now. Very true. Very true. But I I think that there's there's a that's where I think we should have a little more of a nuance conversation on what
are we getting in terms of tax dollars back because the CRA number one affords us some unique opportunities because they have the ability to bond on those those revenues collected and they they afford us an ability to to bond those
things out or they do not us but they do. They have the ability to accomplish projects that we as a council, if that money was going into this into the general fund, we would not have that ability. But we know we need infrastructure. Absolutely. So why would we want to give them money to do our
infrastructure? Because a portion of that money is the county taxes that you're referencing in the conversations earlier. It's not all 100% our money. The 913 is the N correct. The 9 the 913 is. But if we've got no say so over the money after they get it, why don't we
just do it ourselves and get the infrastructure we need done? Because we can't. We can't. They they have the ability to bond that we do not. I'm not talking about us taking out a bond. I'm just talking about using our
tax dollars to get projects done that we need done. and and I'm I'm in I'm in full support that he's saying we're going to have to borrow and we don't have the ability to borrow. The CRA can borrow can leverage their yes money existing money that they have in their
checkbook. They can they can bond theirs out get a get more money for leverage it and to get the whole project we could not Yes. Case in point would be this back alleyway project. And I if if the back alleyway project happens the way
that Todd Beerbomb envisions it happening, we rip up those alleyways and we open those alleyways up and then while it's open, Florida Power and Light, etc., etc., come in there and lay down their their conduit. We don't trench or we don't directional bore.
It's it's wide open for everybody to come in and do it. Directional boring, by the way, is the most expensive per foot way to do something. Okay? If we were to take that on, if we were to take that $500,000 and take that on, we would probably have to save four,
five, six years before we we would be able to build up enough funds to actually fund that project and do it versus if we let the CRA handle it, they then take out a bond today for the for the entirety of the project and get it
done. That's a and on top of that, the multiplier is that we're now bringing in county funds because the CRA the county has CRA funds. I'm sorry, the CRA has county funds as part of it. So now there's kind of that multiple that multiplier which is getting to what you
were talking about earlier with are we receiving all the benefit of the tax dollars that are actually collected within the city. So it's a way to kind of pull some of those funds back. Okay. So that that's why I say let let's let's be thoughtful about how we we decide on
the CRA because I think that there are very good things the CRA can do. Another example would be what what I mentioned in in the joint project about redoing some of the the the downtown curbing and sidewalks and asphalt downtown. As a
city, we'll never be able to afford to do that. We'll have to save for like 10 years to be able to do that. another project that the CRA could take on and they by bonding it out by bonding it out. Okay. Until until we can get our city budget
solvent, would you support instead of a million dollars a half a million dollars for 24 months to get our own ship straight? In principle, I don't I I support that. The problem is, from what I've been
advised, that the change to the CRA funding level is a one-way street. If we lower it, it never goes back up. That's not true. I I I don't interpret that. My understanding is once we lower it, if we want to raise it again, we have to then
go to the county and get the county to approve that same proportional increase. I think there's a two mechanisms that were that's the first I've heard that and this would be a good opportunity for Clay to jump in, but he's not here. Well, I think Clay's one said that.
Yep. My understanding is if we lower it, the odds of us being able to increase it Yeah. are very very low. So yeah, we could do that, but it's it's going but then that also that also curtails the
amount that the CRA can then bond out because then the projections forward are now cut in half versus if the CRA continues to receive a million dollars a year plus from this point forward they can bond out X number of dollars. I
don't know what that is. But if you now cut that in half, you now cut their their borrowing power in half. So now instead of doing two projects, maybe we only do one. There's something else that we need to consider when they when and if they ever go to borrow because
there's a special some special language in there if they go and bond that money out. A matter of fact, I'll look it up. You can't eliminate them while they have debt. So they have to they have to pay off that debt before they can be dissolved or absolved or whatever. Yeah.
There's something very specific that we need to keep in mind before we ever make a decision like that to say. There's also something else that we need to pay attention to as well. If if we're if we're requesting them to move forward or if they go out and bond out for these projects like we're looking at, we need
to pay special attention to the legislation that's taking place at the state level right now because there's one bill that's out there that would eliminate their ability to bond to bond beyond October, I think it is, of this year if it were to go through. So, a lot
of the things that we're talking about here today and over the coming months are also dependent upon the passage of legislation in the state as well. And that's not the only one that that's out there dealing with these things. There's stuff about TDC and all kinds of different and they're all intertwined
together, too. So, when we make one decision, it's going to weave into something else. So, we've got to really put all this stuff on the table to really decide what is the best avenue for us to accomplish what we want to accomplish. And we better start paying attention to what they're proposing with abalorum taxes too and property taxes
and what the impacts will be and what kind of taxes you would have to pass to offset those costs that we currently have. Especially if they were I don't I don't think personally that they'll be able to achieve it this year. However, it is coming. I think if it goes out for
referendum without people really looking at what the impacts would be, it could be disastrous. Yes. So, I I think that I think that what my my approach would be would be that we
task staff with looking at um a cut across the board that would equal the $2.8 million. And really and truly, it should be probably more than that because that's just that's just to get I mean, let's let's just face that 70% of our
budgets for wages and benefits. So, well, we we we need to take a hard look at it and we need to ask staff to take a hard look at it. They're they're the ones that know it best, right? Well, I know, but we're up here and we can see
that if 75, you know, 70% of it is wages, I mean, there's only one place to look. Until we get that 2 point how many million 2.8 almost 2.9 do you think it would be Are you trying
to eliminate transfers all together? That's what I would like to do. I mean in 2019 when when I when my I was elected it was $1.4 million and the council at the time said
it was it was 1.4 for the council at the time. We we spent many hours at the dis and we whittleled it down to $700,000. Now, $700,000 compared to 2.8, that's that's an easy lift, but 2.8 is going to be a
very difficult ask, but I I think we've got to we've got to look at it. So, if we sold our utilities to somebody else, how much it cost to run our utility divisions? That's all of our revenue. That's all. That's all our revenue. But I'm saying I
mean we got to look somewhere, right? Um you have to look within general to delete that. So yeah, you have to go back it out. But I mean again, we have to go through and take out grants and stuff, but the water budget for this fiscal year was 7.5
million. Wastewater was 6.7 million and natural gas was 1.8 million. That's just that's that's and the 2.2 2 that we're transferring 2.8 2.8. Which one's it coming from? All three of them. Who's who's who's carrying the load? The
water's carrying the load. Um one of the 2.8 million of two 2,854,411. That's the total transfer from utilities. 1,756,674 comes from water. 911,574 comes from wastewater. And then
$196,163 comes from natural gas. So I mean, and that's especially on the gas side, that's proportionate to the size of the budget versus water and sewer. Um, but yeah, I mean, water carries a load almost double waste water. And does that include the admin fees that we're
charging back? Okay. So it's admin billing fees are a separate line item within the expense. We you we you reduced the billing and admin fee this year because we took those employees the utility billing employees out of finance, put them straight into the three utilities and
split them up on third. What what did the city do from the time he's saying that it was 1.4 to now which is now almost double 2.8. So tell me what what is it that we've done that is accumulating that
much more raises. What is it? Raises. I'm I'm just going to be completely blunt with you. It's raises. It's not just raises. It's adding positions, creating positions. What's our What's our total FTEEs? What's our total now? So, our total I don't think we've done
that as much as what you have for the budget for the budget. Our total our total FTEES was 128 and we had 12 we have six fire part-time and the six executive, you know, part-time and then we've added one FTE and then one part-time FTE with a senior center. If I remember, what year? What year was the
one 2019? Danielle or Kobe, can you tell us 2019? How many FTEEs were there? I have to go back. We have to go back our we our numbers for this budget, we only went back to fiscal year 2122. We don't have
2019. If I had to guess, I would say it was it was right around either 100 or 110. We have to go. So, we added 28 people since 2019. again. We don't have We only go back to 21 is what we have on here. I have to go and pull 2019's budget. Let's How hard
is that? Seven years ago. I It will take some time. We have to find it because I'm going to I'm just going to assume. Oh, you did. That they didn't have the number written down anywhere because all you had back then was spreadsheets. Up until this year, all we had was spreadsheets, Excel spreadsheets that didn't tell you how many people wrapped inside that personnel budget. So, we had
to go back and find old spreadsheets on somebody's computer who maybe had it written down. We adopt the We adopt it and it's is it not attached to what we adopt and put on the city's it's attached to my Danielle's but it was not prior to this. No. So we have to go back and look and see if we can
figure out either human resource documents or finance documents if we have an old spreadsheet that had the positions broken down. I mean I wasn't sitting up here then. So otherwise I like Todd I would just go back to my emails and look at Yeah. So are we now brainstorming ways to find fat and cut
it? Is that what we're doing right now? That's what it sounds like. Okay. Well, let me ask you this. How long has the EDA been getting money from the city? Prior to me, I've been doing it for a long time. Been getting it for a while.
The EDA along with is getting $30,000 a year. No, sir. Now it's more than that. Now it's like 45. So we have what we call with the city we call legacy um organizations which is Main Street, the
EDA and Tri County Community Council. This year Main Street got Main Street got $33,333. That's been constant for pretty much the whole time up back to 2122 which we have here. That's been constant. The EDA this year
was at 45,500. Last year was 32,000. The Tri County Community Council has been 27,000 for again all the way back prior to 2122. This year it went up to 30. So it increased by three. Tri County is that senior? We need to kick
that one off probably. Is that what that was? The Tri County. Yeah. Yes. So next year that won't carry over. We've incorpor we we've been paying money to the EDA for several years. What benefits
are we getting from them? Well, you got a $4 million infrastructure uh that goes from Woodlon all the way to our existing, which means that anybody that gets on that infrastructure is going to pay us.
And we had to pay a red nickel for that infrastructure, $4 million. So, do we have a balance on what they've what we've paid them and what they brought to the table? We could we we could go back and look. We can ask you Matthews, the director, to provide to us a list um
since he's been here and then even prior if he go back I know the mayor served on that board for a long time. Yeah. Um to go back in history and see what projects they did that affected the city's union. But we've got a record going back for since the city got them on on how much we've been paying them every year.
Right. Should. Yes. Okay. So we could find out how much the city has paid them and see what kind of benefits we got. That would determine whether or not we we may want to keep them. Yeah. I
think we used to pay them for a lot of years. I want to think 167,000. So in uh 2021-22 it was 22,234 and in 2223 it was
19,565 in 2324 it was 32,000 and then this year was 455. So it was a jump from last year to this year which was based off the new model which is a new funding model that every municipality I'm I'm aware of approved for Paxton County and
us couple couple things about that. Um, one, a lot of what the EDA does is not shortsighted. It's it it's years years of in the making and bringing these deals about to draw businesses here and
industries and job creation all over the county, not just the vinak springs, but all over the county. So, they're they're doing they're doing a lot. Uriah has mentioned a couple times how he is this year he told the county commissioner the same thing in the last meeting. They are
reducing the amount because they're taking on more partners that belong to the EDA. So we're going to have to be we're going to be putting out less money to the EDA. We're going to still be benefiting as much and and more. So you know to to have an accumulated list is
kind of impossible of what they have have brought. But this area is seeing tremendous growth. Um, and I just see a huge value in in what they can bring to us. I've spent a good bit of time with with them here in the last few weeks and
I'm learning more. I'm telling you, I went to meet Uriah one one time just for a brief meeting. Four hours later, I felt like I had gotten my bachelor's degree uh in in economic development. I mean, he he's he's he's brilliant and and he's his mind works so fast and so
quickly. So, I think I think it would be a mistake to to uh snatch a rug out under we're looking at ways to increase income. New businesses and jobs is the way to do that. Uh so, so without what the EDA does in my view, um we're kind
of we're kind of step stepping backwards to try to keep up with the growth here. um is going to bring good paying jobs um eventually all along the I 10 corridor um and all over the county. But anyway, that ends up in our coffers. The other
thing I would I would say is about the the jobs. You know, the 28 employees since 2019, considering the population growth that we have seen over those same years and the demands of the city to take care of daily business, we can
expect to see an increase in the number of employees. It's only it's only natural the same number of personnel can't do an increased amount of work uh without that overtime that we don't like to pay, you know, and all those sorts of things. So, we're going to some of that's to be expected to see that type
of of job growth. Um and in raises, you know, I I don't know which is more expensive, holding set people salaries at the same level and not giving raises and losing them and that institutional knowledge that walks out the door with them, that's pretty expensive, too. Uh,
so it's kind of a catch 22. I just think we got to gear towards finding the money. Um, and and I I don't know. I just I shudder at the thought of of reducing the workforce. We're expecting people to be happy during these times of
still continued inflation um with same salary, you know, for for very long. Uh we just have to we have to find a way to to increase our revenue. And I think that's coming in some of these developments coming. We have water ran
to uh many places right now where new homes are coming in, new town homes. They haven't started paying their water bills yet. Yeah. So, we we've got some increased revenue on the horizon within the next 12 months. Uh you know, I was going to mention uh because Todd was
talking about 2019. I was looking for that that print out uh before we came in here cuz I kind of wanted you to see a little comparison 2018 2019 to where we are now. From 2019 that was an enormous leap
in salaries. Uh we and and like we said higher paid positions. It's uh you know I don't have a problem with that. I just want to make sure that the council knows before you got here we've
made some significant leaps uh in salary and raises and also higher paid positions. I know that uh there's been kind of a reorganization you know each time we have a change in management and that's expensive. Uh I
think all of us feel extremely good about our setup for management now and so I'm not looking for us to see something different you know in the next year or the next several years but um you do have to give it a give it some
time. There's a lot of things, you know, with the EDA, they u they did the best they could under the type of leadership we would let them afford, but until we brought in Uriah,
uh we were paying, you know, very little. We had basically no staff but one person. He's got how many people got now, Todd? Two. Three now. Two and a part-timer. Two and a part-time. and just u a lot of things have really
stepped up so that we can really operate and u and there's a lot of things that are going on in Mossy Head and surrounding areas that are going to really impact city u so just because it's not being built in the punak don't think we're not going
to read from it because we will um but they're in a very very good position to move the needle and uh I'd hate to back away from them now I hate to back away from anything. I hate to back away from raises to back away from, you know, the positions that we need. But, uh, we just
got to be real smart here as to where we trim things. But when you said that, um, the salaries significantly increased, especially at upper level. Well, all all across the board. The the the the new council we got in 2019 were
very generous and it was it was due. It was, you know, it was due, too. Well, we had we had people making under $10 an hour and I know it's it's the it's the chiefs that have benefited from the payraises and it I don't think it's been the Indians.
Yeah, I disagree. I when you go to looking at the other thing is the we were talking about retention earlier. It's very difficult to retain staffing for police, for fire, for anybody else with other organizations around us that continuously increase their pay
salaries. And not only just county, I'm talking about the state as well. When they see what they can make in other places, it gets extremely difficult to recruit quality help that will keep prevent you from winding up in lawsuits. So when you start looking at those lists
and I think that's probably a lot of what they're talking about across the board, that's where it starts to impact it. And with with the EDA, I think that a lot of the data that we rely on for our grants and everything comes from e
economic development. And sitting on the at the triumph board the past two times when we were up for a go on our consideration for our grant funds, I know that I sat there and watched that lady from Bay County I I don't think she could sit down long enough for the grants that were going
before them that they were solely relying on triumph statistics after that. But you're right is providing the same paid up for us. Yeah. Thank you. Uh couple things. the 28 positions that have increased.
Uh, I need to digest that because it depends on where those 28 slots were before I can really analyze, hey, what how they really impacted what we're talking about here because I think some
general y some things pay for themselves. Utilities pay for themselves. But I would like to ask Councilman Beerbomb, what is your goal? because maybe I I I would like to understand why do you want to eliminate the entire transfers from utilities to
subsidize part of the general fund? What what is your goal in eliminating it 100%. That's what I'm understanding you to say. Because when I when I look on on the on the long-term horizon, I see a a tremendous need for infrastructure and we've got to have two things. We've got
to have the money to be able to to do that infrastructure, but that is also a hedge against an everinccreasing water bill. Bottom line, brass stacks, it's a hedge against an everinccreasing water bill. The fact that my wife and I buy
ourselves with a dog, pay $100 a month, no matter what. You getting a discount? Cuz I just got a I just got the same thing and mine's more than that. It's 100 bucks a month no matter what, right? Um, I know someone in Freeport
that their water bill was originally when they moved into their home, their water bill was originally $40 a month and they're, as a matter of fact, I literally had this conversation with them yesterday because they were upset that it's now up to $80 a month. And I said, "Well, that's because y'all have a $30 million sewer plant that you're
having to pay for." So that that's why your your water bill's going up. Um, another example, I know this is this is apples and oranges comparison, but I my brother lived in Atlanta and he said that no matter where he lived in Atlanta, he never paid over $50 a month
for water water and sewer. So, just just a little bit of comparison, but that that's my objective is we've got to have that money that that those monies, those revenues in those funds so that we can do infrastructure and we can hold off on some of these water rate increases. The
last time we had a um a rate study, the rate study told us you actually got to you've actually got to raise your rates. If you want to continue to to update the system, you're going to have to raise your rates. I don't want to raise rates.
I already pay enough as it is. Um real quick, I found some old spreadsheets in my email. 2018, and this might be plus or minus a few positions because I was adding it up very quickly. In 2018, according to the spreadsheet, I found there was 94 positions. Okay? And
in fiscal year 2019, I haven't counted those positions yet, but the total at the bottom of the spreadsheet was $4,396,852 is what we spent in salaries. In 2020, it was 5,94,48646. Can we task Kobe or staff to
I I think I like these conversations, but we've got I mean, if we're going to make any progress, we've got to have the details. Somebody has got to come here with the details that matter for us to make these decisions because they're going to be tough no matter what we've
got to do at this point. I just feel like we're spinning our wheels right now. But we're not. We're not because because my It's funny because I was looking for something for Kobe and I I went back to some of the old agendas and minutes and was reading through them on
Friday. This conversation is the very point of this meeting is so that we can have these conversations now so that when we get to the budget, we're not we're not asking them to go out of the room and say, "Hey, bring back such and such." the the the essence of this
conversation is so that we can tell them to go get this information. But the thing of it is Todd, this is the same conversation every year. We shouldn't have to say it anymore. It should just come naturally. I guess from what I It doesn't matter which five is sitting here. Staff naturally should bring back,
hey, these are the basics. We know this is what they're going to ask for because they're tasked with making these decisions. And they're tough decisions. I get it. and we're gonna have to do it as a team, but Okay. Well, if you need the data, tell him what you need for us to make a good logical decision. You're
bringing up information that I'm Okay. So, we've got Mr. Beerbomb has mentioned he wants to eliminate all which I can get his point of look, we're spending in order to provide our citizens with all the services that we're providing them.
It costs the utilities $2.8 8 million a year to subsidize the general fund right now. So we have got to look at advalorum expenditures and determine do we have enough revenue coming in to pay these
bills or at at the moment we don't. We're $2.4 million shy. And what data do you need? What are we spending the $2.4 million? What where what do we have? Where's our money going that we can't supply the citizens with what they're
accustomed to getting without raising their water bills or their Is that a reasonable request, Kobe? And yeah, I mean I understand what council's talking about and the councilwoman like we just we he's forwarded the sheets over to us. I'll bring back tables and some charts, some line graphs, and you'll see for
each budget, you'll see since at least since 21 22, I'll try to go back further than that. You'll see the line graph. You'll see when what year it took the exponential growth and what happened. And when you see that before it gets to us or at least give us time to figure it out, send it to us to so that we can
say, "Look, this is where that jump came from. Oh, that makes sense." or I I I want to warn warn everybody though in the in the last six years just I found I found these spreadsheets but it was interesting some
some of the divisions within the spreadsheet that I'm looking at that I forwarded and I'm you know I hope that you forward these to the rest of the council so they can see them their departments are different so unfortunately we're giving them a daunting task of translating streets went from nine people or sanitation went
from six people and where did they go throughout the years because it does this right? It it spiders out. So tracking that they've left the general fund because some of those are not like some of those are already outside of the general fund that we're really not going
to concentrate on. Correct. But but for example, maintenance parks, those are all general, right? Those those are all ones that we at at various times throughout the last five years have collapsed and reorganized and moved around and previous city managers have done this that which was all in their
prerogative to do. But just kind of keep that in mind that we're we're probably not going to get a perfect definition for the last six, seven years. I think you're going to see where they've just had to play with the money to make it work for what they had to accomplish at the time. And that's the problem. We
want to try what I'm hearing you say by eliminating it. You want to stop that to kind of figure out let's fix the real problem. That's what I'm hearing because that's the only thing that's going to happen if we eliminate the utilities funded general fund. So
when was that what year was the big reconstruction the the restructuring of the either 2021? Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. Somewhere there 2021. Well, there's been several shifts. I think it's kind of a three-part deal. Yeah. And 21 was the big one. Public works.
They took a lot council saying where you used to have like individual parks employee, shop employees. That's where they consolidate all. Now you either have a maintenance employee, a transportation employee or a utility one that's then broken out within that division. So because sorry to interrupt, but but in 20 so the the genesis of this
email that this email train that I forwarded to them that's got these spreadsheets in it is was me attempting to do that. I wanted to understand since I had been elected in 2019, what did our what did our staffing look like? What did our raises look like? And
the the answers that I received from HR and from finance was, "Well, sir, that's difficult to tell you because from year to year, positions change, people change, departments change. So there's no clear path that that's nice and neat and organized and tidy all the way
across. Unfortunately, things change all but there's these spreadsheets are are there. There's four spreadsheets that are there. So, that will at least give us some glimpse into into the history. So, we can definitely look at that pullback. That's what we attempted to do on like you'll see on page 17 this chart
here. So, we attempted to do was to have your FTEEs per department total all the way across and like this year we won't we'll add another column. So, you'll see you'll see the prior two years with the current year and then the top of each budget try to do the same thing. um on the top of each budget personnel, you'll
see where it had position totals, but you can see where I had to stop 22 back because I didn't have the information I do now. So, we'll pull that up. So, we will try to always from now keep that. So, you'll see how many positions we had, where they got moved to. Like last year, for example, you know, we took
three positions out of admin, but they're still within the city. We just separate them into different departments. Realistically, Todd, I don't know that we're going to get to where you're suggesting that we're getting to, but what would you be what would you like to see us accomplish in the per in this year alone? And and I
guess I'm talking 26 because 25 we're already in. We're not doing anything different in 25. I think realistically, realistically, if you could cut it by a third, Kobe, how much? Uh, okay. So, a third in all three of them or a third a third out
of 2.8. 8 million. Okay. You don't care where. You just want to see a third drop, a 30 year. But but I also want a commitment from the council that we continue that trend that we we don't that it not just be a single year of a dip and then all of a sudden spending
goes back up. Cut a third out of what? Out of the transfers out of the 2.8. Chief, go ahead. So, so one thing sitting back here listening I think a lot of great points but one thing we got to look at is instead of just raw numbers is each year when I do a budget
I have to justify an increase and what were the justifications for those increases was that we didn't have enough staffing to get a specific job done that we had to add a number in finance a number to the police department number to the fire department so instead of
just looking at raw data we need to look why we came to that conclusion over those years. So, I know um my budget has increased, but we didn't have body cameras. We were paying 134,000 less
than any other law enforcement agency around here. Um 911 cost, like there's there's several things that have gotten us where we need to be with technology in today's realm. Our CAD system, our
last CAD system was developed in 1989. We were using it up until two years ago. Very antiquated. The state forced us to go to a NYERS and fibers type thing solution, which that program no longer um
supported. So, we found a grant money to support that. But there is maintenance costs each year that go along with that. So looking at raw data is one thing, but looking why we had these increases, I think we need to pay attention to that too. So just agreed and I think that's
where we're getting to with the with them bringing that. This is not the same town it was 10 years ago, 20 years ago, 30 years, 40 years ago when I was born. You know, we things have changed. Um that's meaning laws have changed, policies have changed, how we operate, how we do things. we can't just go out
there and, you know, do it how we want. There's codes, there's all kinds of stuff that we have to abide by um that costs more, unfortunately. So, just food for thought. Thank you. Okay, Cody, you want to swing in another ball?
No, I think we're going we're going good. So, keep going. So, do I hear in the next there's a three-year plan to get the transfers down to zero? I don't think we'd ever get him to zero, but I Kobe and I have been discussing this
because again, y'all can go back, rewind the tape. Todd Beerbomb has been after these transfers since 2019. And and I don't ever expect them to get to zero, but I do I do expect them to get to a reasonable number. And to me, it's maybe 5% of budget or something like that. You
know, that's where I'm going to Kobe's been doing a lot of research. So, didn't you just come up with a plan where um for this next fiscal year not to take more than 10% out of each utility? No, we didn't come up one. That's been my
goal. My personal goal. I think we talked about that last year. Um was to and this is the conversation that leads to that. For me and Danielle, she always turns white when I tell her that. My goal is to get a 10%. Whether that takes two years, whether it takes five years, we've somehow got to get to that council some sort of percentage. We've got to
set and say this is where we go. we don't go above it. Um, that's 10% just seems to be the uh like the market average, the standard from other municipalities I've talked to and city managers. They like to get to that 10% and don't exceed it. That sounds like a good goal, but it may
take again it it really depends on a couple things. It depends on your ability. It depends on your ability, but also depends on the council's, you know, the urgency. I won't say urgency, but how fast and aggressive you want to be with it. So, it just takes time. It just we have to lay that out. Again, it could take two years, it could take five. It
would take some time to figure that out. So, what percentage is that 2.8 billion of the overall general fund budget? Yeah. Did that earlier, didn't you? Yeah. Biggest question. Biggest thing we hear is water bills. You know, everybody
talks about how the Councilman Cosen was talking before the meeting. He washes his his truck on a place where the grass is dry so he doesn't have to use water. Why? We we feel that it's the truth. I know. I know.
You done got me started now. Um and I agree 100% with that that logic. And and to me, I think as department heads and directors, we need to look at each individual position and what their function is. There things that we can cut that are costing us a little bit of money. Whether it's nickel and
diamonded, I agree with a flat budget. um, you know, let's let's make it as lean as we can, but let's look at our processes, how we do things. One thing I can think of is each night we ride around to every park and shut the bathrooms and lock the gates and all that. How much is that costing us, you know,
in in time and gas and everything to ride around each night and check that park and and lock it down and for somebody to come back six, seven hours later to unlock it? You know, just simple things like that I think you can look at and say, can we be a little more efficient and effective on how we're
doing our process? Um, time, hours worked in the day. That's what you know as well as I do, the average employee does not eight hours non-stop on the grind. you're probably getting best six six and a half hours out of that employee of actual true work. Is a 10
hour schedule is a 12 hour schedule. Are we really getting the fact effective maximum thing we can get out of that employee? Do we need to look at stuff like that? I think that's where a lot of your stuff within the city working is going to help save some of that money
and and get a better um product done. So, I think each each director should look how they what the process is. I think we we should look at some sort of comprehensive uh cost controls. You know, we we have a we we are standing on
the precipice of an opportunity when it comes to later on tonight at the council meeting. We're negotiating a contract with with a engineering services or firms in which we will probably end up writing a check for at least a million dollars a year to those firms. So maybe
we task Kobe and and Clay with negotiating some sort of fixed price contract. You know, Trump Trump famously uh negotiated a fixed price contract on the new Air Force One and Boeing's eaten like $2 billion in in write-offs because of it, right? And they're still having
to deliver the plane. That's just one example. What I'm getting is we really should should be thinking about this holistically and we should not just be thinking about oh you know we're going to eliminate this position or we're going to you know not do this or not do that project or whatever. It should we
should look at how are we curtailing our cost or locking our cost in at a certain rate for a predictable amount of time so that we control those costs. I think some some of that I mean you can incentivize efficiency in the departments with the employees. We just
have to figure that out. But people when it matters to them and their stakeholders and they they're rewarded in some way by cutting cost, not cutting service, but cutting cost, just working more efficiently and looking for things like that goes a long ways to make uh,
you know, more of a feeling of of team, you know, work citywide uh with with our personnel and can pay off. That reminds me of something the state of Florida's been doing for at least 30 years. And if they're employees, if if you're a state employee
in the state of Florida and you come up with an idea that can save the state of Florida, let's just say a million dollars. That employee is awarded 10% of
that. He walks home with $100,000. It's something that's been in place for a long time. um why couldn't we transfer that idea to the city and let our employees do the brainstorming and reward them for ways
to save money? Mhm. I do I do want to say with mayor as as as a witness to this previous councils we've worked hard to look at all these departments individually and bring them out of the red airport
sanitation. Um Mcnite famously always lamented about selling the the the cemetery because the cemetery is always in the red. Um, but we've raised rates in the cemetery to try to offset some of those expenses. We've raised rates out of the airport to to bring the airport out of the out of
the red and into the black. Um, we did that with sanitation. We made sure, you know, when it was originally presented to us to go to waste management because we were looking at having to buy new garbage trucks to the tune of over a million dollars and it was more cost-effective for us to just outsource
it to waste management. So, I think we need to continue that trend and look at at ways that we can bring these departments out of out of the out of the red into the black. Like last year, hey, let's look at all of the engineering services we're paying for plan review and make sure that the that the fees
we're charging for plan review are commensurate with what we're paying the engineers to review them. These are all good great ideas. Um, just out of curiosity, Kobe, how soon could we empower our employees to start bringing
ideas forth on where the city could save money? And it doesn't have to be uh save us a million dollars. If they save us um if they save us $100,000, you know, they go home with
$10,000. Mhm. So, how soon could could we do a policy for our employees for cost savings? That's as soon as y'all wanted to do it. I mean, we have to, you know, bring some back, discuss it, and bring something
back. But, I mean, that's what that's what they're all sitting here for today is to kind of hear the council's thoughts and directions. And when they bring budgets to me, I mean, they already know what what our goal is for this year a little bit. Um, is to find how to do the job more efficient with less money. Yeah. Do we do we need to
make a motion? We can't hear you today. This a workshop. So, it be put on the agenda as an official item. Could we add it to the agenda for the meeting after this? If you'd like to, you could bring it up and if the council wants to, y'all could. How's How's the council feel about that?
I'm going to get a little premature jump off in that. I think you need to give a little talk. Um, but if three of you want to do it, that's all it takes. Councilman, I I I support the idea. I don't know that that the timing is the
best timing because I I you know, in my conversation with with Kobe about his workload. I I'm not sure that I want I'm ready to add anything else to his plate. I want to see him get some stuff off of his plate currently. And if we're asking him to do a lot of work when it comes to
the budget, I just don't know that we don't say, "Hey, we want to come back to this, but maybe the timing isn't right to do that." I'm in full support of it. Rewarding our employees for saving us money as long as it's appropriate. We're not like I joked with Kobe. As long as we're not like not paying the the the
light bill. Yeah. You know, as long as we're doing things in in a good way, I support it. I think it's a good idea. No power November. No power November. There's a lot of good ideas floating. I'm I'm just worried that some of them are going to fall between the cracks.
Well, that's you know, that's what this time again why I said they're here. let's do is times come for them to when they come to budget time to say you know we think we can do it we can do it this way which would be a reduction in cost of of X um but you know every employee in this city is empowered to talk to
their director and if they feel there's a better way to operate within the department provide that idea to the director and as they know as every employee knows from there if that director thinks it doesn't take them serious or takes a while and they work up the food chain till to till someone hears that that's the whole reason that
I have uh the quarterly non-direct director staff meeting. So, we work with staff members who aren't in director positions to hear those things. We've got some good ideas out of that. That's what we're working through. That's what that's for is, you know, not to circumvent my directors or supervisors, but things don't always work uphill. You
have to push water sometimes uphill. People don't like to push it all the time. So, we do that for a reason. What better motivation to the than to reward them with their good ideas monetarily? Well, let me say this because I have
around a business for a lot of years and I did try to do bonuses for people that did some things way over and above particularly that were something we didn't normally do. But what you know I would find out sometimes is that six months down the road it blew up my face
and I've already paid them their commission. And so, you know, it needs to be well thought out and you need to have all those precautions in place before you just blanketly release that. So, basically, this isn't uh we're not
inventing the wheel. All we've got to do is pretty much mimic and copy what the state of Florida's already done 30 years ago. They've done the work for us. All we need to do is adopt it. Yeah. Well, we we want to make sure we're in agreement with what they got, not because it because you say it works
because it probably does, but we want to know how they make it work. Let me Oh, go ahead, Amy. Oh, I was just going to say I like his idea, but I don't think it's going to help us resolve what we got on the plate today, which is where are we going to
come? What What do we cut that's equates to $2.8 8 million in order to fund next year's budget. And I think that's where we're at today. We've got to recognize, okay, where where's that money going to come from? Because we we we know we're going to have to
operate. We know we have needs that are basic that we're not that we can't escape. Uh 14%. So 2.8 is 14% of our general fund budget. 14%. And you'd like to get it to 10? No. No. No. No.
Yes. Well, yes, but 10 per utility. 10 per utility. Go be get 10 per utility or less. You know, like gas. Gas probably isn't going to be 10%. It's not currently right at 10%. Just because of the amount of money that's in gas, but yes, 10%. So, we're at 14%. But again,
you know, that's general fund, which is includes grants. So, we get grants, we have to be able to fund those grants up until reimbursement. So, okay. And not to belver this point on on the incentivizing thing. I'm I'm not necessarily talking about a bonus or, you know, cash take-home prize or
anything like that. I'm talking about lasting change. When you have what do we have 128 people on staff? 13 130 131 130 now that we've added the singer. That's a lot of brain power. I mean, it doesn't take a supervisor to
think of brilliant ideas. Sometimes it's the guy that's doing the work that thinks of ways that can cave save money. Uh, I heard of an example here in the city a while back, but it's been a year or so since I heard. I can't remember, but it was in the water department. I think it's idea somebody came up with.
But anyway, those things happen. And so sustainable change is what I'm talking about when when it comes because we're looking for ways to generate more money, retain employees. You can't retain them without occasional raises. Just cannot do it. that these ideas make a
department overall efficient forever more is that's where the return comes from. You know, not necessarily throw it out in in in bonus, one time bonus because I've been there. We used to do that, made that mistake. uh and it doesn't it doesn't last. But if if the
ideas that come forward in in these these opportunities, it it's a reward for everybody just to be able to continue to get wages and continue to have a job because I mean we could be at some point be talking about laying people off and nobody wants to do that,
right? So anyway, that's where I was coming from with that. Uh Mr. Mayor, the final thing I kind of want to switch gears if I may. The final the final thing that I wanted to mention as as part of a topic for today when it comes to budget is uh I want to bring up something that has
been discussed in the past. Um I really want to see on the public works side of things goals and objectives for the money that goes into public works. So, what I don't want to have happen is we have an R&M system budget of
$400,000 and nobody knows how that money is intended to be spent. I really want to see as a council us agree and I'm not blindsiding Kobe. I've already talked to him about this. Um, and and I I commend him because when I
talked to him about it, he said, "Well, I I worked on it last year. I just didn't quite get it finished in time." So, I commend him for anticipating this and and actually having it somewhat ready already. But I want to see I I for so long the council
has approved budgets with line items and then, you know, we find out later, you know, oh, you know, this needs to be repaired, that needs to be repaired. It's like there was money in the budget. Why wasn't it fixed? you know, the the airline over at the plant or, you know,
one of the generators or some of these lift stations. Why why we for years have been approving hundreds of thousands of dollars in R&M system. Why why haven't we been getting them done? And so, it's a little bit of an accountability measure both at our
level as well as his level to understand where this money is going when we approve it in in in these budgets, specifically public works when it comes to streets, water, sewer, etc. Is that the responsibility of the superintendent of those divisions that you're talking about? Yes. But but I
want I want them what I'm asking for is support for us to incorporate that into the budget so that at our level we're we're aware and we can be we can hold accountable that that those projects are getting completed that maintenance is getting done. I didn't realize they
weren't. That's that's that is totally a a shame that that's the case. that there there are numerous instances if if you kind of recall back over the one the easiest one I can I can site is the airline on the side of the uh wastewater
treatment plant that was in disrepair and was apparently howling for a long period of time and it was ignored by the previous public works director for an extended period of time and the city manager when when they left had it fixed discovered it and had it fixed and
that's just one example you know we come across pumps. You know, there there's a lot of this discussion that we've had around these these lift stations and these pumps. Think about it. We Why haven't those pumps been proactively replaced? Why are we waiting until a lift station has multiple pumps down to replace them?
Why are we finding out there's only one when there's supposed to be multiples? Bingo. Tons of them. Bingo. Like the skater system. Now, the skate system is a little bit of a unique situation because the the the provider kind of went awall on us, but I I really think
that at at a budget level, this council should be aware of of those dollars of what we're approving. It shouldn't be a black hole of, you know, here's 600,000, go make it work. I I just I'm not comfortable with that anymore. Anna, will you do me a favor? I would like you
to run repair and maintenance and actual storming for the last three years th those divisions because that's a good point and if it's not been done that's that's shame on us for for not taking care of it. That's absolutely
ridiculous. I had no idea. And again that goes back to my level because I want to I want to push on Yes. We've got to focus back on getting finance up and running and and staff because that that had we been fully
staffed and had somebody that works for us that brings stuff back on routine basis, we would know these things and we would know those things when we should know them in a timely manner because it's hard for us to make decisions like that when we don't know. I mean, you're
talking about something that was you said the old public works director. So automatically I'm thinking that's at least three years ago. That's you know the hard thing is we didn't hear about it all till the council meeting anyways when Jacobs would go I don't know it was a different group. I don't know this or that one and it shouldn't be that long.
It should be more timely. I agree. So two things. Number one I want to be I want to be clear with with the employees that are here as well as anybody that may be listening. I'm not dogging the employees. I'm saying I'm not saying you are. Right. Right. Right. But I I just want to be clear. I don't want anybody to misinterpret my comments. Just asking
for accountability. Yes, sir. Correct. Number two. Um All right. Shoot. I forgot what my number two point was again. See, it's getting late already. But number one, you've done a lot. Yeah. No, it we we really just need
accountability. I I'll have to come back to number two when I remember it. So, just so staff does have internally the money they've come and ask for. They have the budgets broken out. That's what council was talking about. So like I told him like Daniel and I did with each staff member that came this year this line how much money what's it making up?
What's making up this line of so let's just take Randall does a good job. Everybody does a good job. Rand does a good job of breaking down his R&M system when it comes that he'll say okay we need to do this line on Hill Street. We need to do this force main on station one at XYZ and we put that in. He gives us a dollar amount. We have that council
talking about that used to be over gas Randall Holden is utilities. Yeah man, he's short. So what council I think Berbomb's talking about is taking that and putting it in this physical doc this package so you can go back and say okay we budgeted 50,000 for this line to be replaced in water. Where are we at on that today? That's what we're going to
get to. That's what this year when you have capital improvement projects or you have large projects there will be individual sheets in the budget for you to refer back to that'll show you when it's budgeted, how much it is, and when we'll get it completed. That's what I think that's what he's getting at. So it's always been internal. has just never been in this document here for
everyone to see because it also forces a planning conversation of what are we going to put in the budget? What are we going to justify to the council and then as a council for us to be able to pull it back so that if something happens and we and someone comes up here and says hey by the way there's three pumps out
at lift station 72 and we go wait a minute in the budget why that was in the budget why didn't we fix it and why is it coming back to Exactly. I say that it's not to micromanage. It's not to micromanage, but it is it is there to have to to instigate that accountability
and that planning conversation. I I did got one question that I I've been here what, six years now and had yet to have answers. At the end of the budget year, um I know we've always had a a surplus, whether it's because we didn't have full staffing that year. Um,
we found cheaper alternatives to certain things, but I've yet to see where that money actually ends up at. And I know it don't just magically go away to, you know, black hole, but where does it where does it end up at? How do we take that in advance the next budget year and
reduce those costs? So, if you've got a department that is out there trying to save money and find other cheaper alternatives than what they originally budgeted for, which I know my department has done several times, where does that money go? Reserves back to general budget
fun. It's a carryover. Fun balance carryover. So, can we not take that money and set it in a reserve somewhere to get us put towards a fuel line? If if I'm saving 60 70 $80,000 a year and every other department's got something close to
that, that money should be going set back to a bigger project somewhere or coming back to the department in the next year's budget saying well you you know I don't know I'm not finance guy but nobody's really been able to answer that for me working through now like for particular if you take a look at utility
budgets right utilities it was easier because it was small smaller separated you will see a lot you'll see carryover numbers over there in the revenue side where We found funds. We said, "Okay, this is how we're going to pay for the equipment this year, these funds." And we would put them all together. That' be your carryover line item, and they plus up in the expenditures. Same thing
happens if you go to uh the revenue, the general fund revenue, which I believe is on page 24 of your budget. You'll see at the end of you'll see prior year carryover of $2,40,500. That's Danielle going through every single line item of the prior fiscal
year budget and estimating. Okay, it's it's August right now and we've only spent this much money. I anticipate us to have 10% left in this budget, 12% in this one. And then she's taking that and carrying that over. So you a little over 2 million. So there's your 2 million right there. Like I I don't How does
that not work? That only helps for one year. And that was a conversation I But if everybody's working lean, but that's what I'm saying. If everybody's being lean throughout the year, that's that's your money. So, how is like I said, I'm not a finance guy, but how does that not wash out to a
certain extent or carry over? In in my opinion, you're robbing Peter to pay Paul if you're always banking on there being carry over to to pay for that. You're you're going to end up robbing Peter to pay Paul. Amy, you know, at the beginning of this whole meeting, you had asked what do we
really want to see? Here's what I want to see. I want to see that we have set aside at least our emergency situation in case of a storm or some kind of emergency at least three months of general operating that just sits there
and ready for your use if an emergency comes. The other thing I would like to see is a assistant finance director put in that role to run the day-to-day operations and then us focus on getting that finance director. Uh, I think we
still have to task ourselves with getting that language updated in the I don't know whether that was a resolution or an ordinance. I can't remember which it was. One of them doesn't match the other and we need to get that resolved and maybe get back on that to get a
finance director. Yeah, but there was a language change that we had to do first. uh councilman that that I don't Okay, so like the chief said, I'm not an accountant guy. I'm not a I'm not a human resource guy.
Would it be fair to say that Danielle has proven she's capable? I I second that. I think like Clay was saying the last time, we can't just pick people. people got to apply for it and go from there. But the assistant
finance director job doesn't exist. So I'm I'm asking to get that position in place. Okay. So that okay, we've got a full team so that you know the finance director which Danielle is doing, she's running that whole
division, the dayto-day plus trying to sit with us and get us everything that we need. I mean, to be to be fair though, Councilwoman, we also have a request for an assistant city manager position and a public works director position. And and between those three
positions, that's that's a lot of salary. Okay. Well, there's an there's some ideas on that. I didn't ask for this information, but one of the top employees here in our city said that the
majority of Kobe's headaches and the time that he's got to spend um is finance and human resources. Not that the wrong people are in the wrong job, but it's just that those two areas
are so overwhelmed is taking up a lot of Kobe's time. So, the person who brought this information to me said, "For a $3 an hour increase, I can take HR and finance off
of Kobe's plate." I used to work in them. I work well with them. I work daytoday with them. And I thought to myself, this employee has come forward with an excellent idea. Okay, hold that
thought. And then we go back to let's look at the at the top superintendent in public works right now. They're all in a dead-end position. There's no bridge for them to advance to city
manager or any higher than where they are on a rotating basis. And you've got is it is it four superintendent? You've got uh three three on a rotating basis and they cover for each other all the
time for annual leave, sick leave, whatever that you know they can run two periodically, you know, without even blinking on a rotating basis. Let each one of those public works superintendent shadow Kobe, learn what
he does. Kobe shouldn't never have to worry about public works. All public works needs to know is what's the priority. What do you want us to do? And if he's got to micromanage them, he's got the wrong superintendent in place. They can do the job. All they
need to be is told is what do you want us to do? what are the parameters and they'll make it happen and then you're giving those superintendent an opportunity to learn the next level and have a
bridge. So there's ideas here. I really don't think that we need at this point an assistant city manager. We've got employees in place right now that can already do it.
So if the if the employees who do this every day, day in and day out, come up with ideas like this, I think they deserve the benefit of the doubt and and us trust them to try their idea and see how it
works. And as the old saying goes, nothing ventured, nothing gained. We don't have to hire another $150 plus thousand a year job. And I'm not talking about the salary. I'm talking about all the benefits that go with it. Sure. So if our employees can
save us that money and get good training, crossraining, that's what they call it in the military. Everybody's crossrained. If if one person is taken out, the next person moves right up.
We're missing cross trainining and we're missing trusting our employees to do the right thing. Give this person who I've already talked to you about an opportunity to do what she said she could do.
Well, you know, we've had this conversation before, but with our particularly with the superintendent when they were selected and put in those positions, they weren't put there because they had been doing that. They had not been doing that for a living. They had not worked at another city or a
county and they got all this experience and they came in and they set up as our superintendent. they were foremans and they're sort of learning on the job. So their initial raises and and you know rate of
pay was probably quite a bit more than their talents and experience uh showed. So so they've kind of had to work into uh coming to the place to where they're worth what their position is set up for.
So I don't know how they stand today because they've been doing it now for I don't know what nearly two years, four four years. Well, so but anyway, so they're probably pretty efficient at it, but it's taken a long time. Uh and uh
you know, I think that was kind of a complicated plan that you're talking about, but I don't know why it couldn't be done. All right. Mayor, haven't you been the interim um city manager before? Yeah. Yeah, go ahead. I'd like to see I I know that we've not had time to call that
special meeting that we were going to have, but I wanted to digest a little bit more about the your request for what what if we would recommend something like you know the public works we've already got funded and we already have that job description, but could that be
modified to an assistant deputy manager position? What what what would be the name you would call it? A deputy city manager. Okay. A deputy city manager. That would be over public works and some other of these administrative divisions to lighten your load. Like could we not
just re It's already funded. It's already budgeted. Uh it's already in the book. So couldn't we just change that because you put a halt on that as I understand it from our last conversation. Is that correct? Correct. Could we do that? Could we just rename it? And what better person to oversee
public works than someone from public works? Well, I don't think you can just give it to somebody, wouldn't you have? Okay. I'm not an HR person. Yeah. You just you got to let everybody Okay. Uh I think we need to rewrite the job description to fit it so that it meets
your needs. And then we that eliminate that puts two into one. They would be in charge of public works, HR, uh you know, who what whatever the you can decide. Yeah, I think the, you know, particularly in public works, the superintendents do a good job. All three
of them have done a long time now. They have good or poor with their um we we work through things. We like every other department, we have issues we work through. Um but those three have been doing it. Um public works whenever they redid it in 21. It's set up the same as
police and fire. Okay? Take for fire for example, you have a fire chief, you got three lieutenants, you've got three sergeants, and you got firefighters. how it works should have a chief should have three superintendants and then you got foremans under them and then you've got
workers you got technicians so it's set up the same way but again that looking at that option again like we said the other night I'm open to any option we'll do whatever is best for the city um but it's it's structured the same way as fire so I don't you know just like with chief I think we'd have a hard time managing the fire department with three
lieutenants managing three different shifts that all interrelate and work together that that's kind of where I was getting from when we're talking about The structure B works is structured the same as police and fire. Different responsibilities absolutely same structure. If we approved for you an assistant
deputy manager, would would that help you? I mean, would that and but they would be responsible for public works. So, you wouldn't get a public works director. You would just have that assistant deputy that would be over public works but over some other divisions, too. Would that relieve this
tension that you're Well, let's say last meeting, you know, we talked about talked about both. We talked about one the duties there in the duties could be shared a certain way. Again, like even as Clay mentioned, this that position is an executive level that's much higher than your public works director. And then what I'm getting and I think
express all of you is some of the decisions and authority that I'm asking to be able to be given to that person needs to be that executive level that has some sort of responsibility to the council at some level. As y'all talked about how you hire them, for example, we talked about HR, there should be a certain point of time where there should
be that debut that says, "Okay, anywhere from an oral reprimand up to suspension with pay. You handle that. I don't need to know nothing about it because we need to operate effectively on in a fast manner." So, there are certain authorities that like I can't we wouldn't task the public works director to discipline a finance employee. You're
crossing departments. You're you're going between bounds that shouldn't be crossed. There has to be the next level. So again, that's that's really the distinct difference between the two. Um, but yeah, I mean, if you're talking about one or the other, one has a lot more authority than the other does, but could it do the same function? Yes, it
could cover functions of the works director. In this position you're talking about, Amy, is already funded. Yes. I'm just saying I'm just saying change the job title basically and then readvertise it because it's vacant right now. And then we don't have to hire a
new position. Well, he'd still have to hire it. He'd still have to hire it. It wouldn't be at our level. Uh, in other words, it's not creating a new position. It's not creating anything. It's just changing the language semantics. Yeah. It's just
changing the language and, you know, rewrite it so that it meets his need. He knows what he needs better than So, so there's elements of of your your comments that I that I agree with. Um, but you know, Co Kobe just brought up a
good point and and it's one that I'm I'm still wrestling with to be very honest, and that is the the deputy city manager position is an executive position that we will we will grant authority to um that we we
should not take lightly because we've done it in the past and it's bit us. That's that's I'll leave it at that. Um I as as I think about it and I've I've talked with Kobe about it and all that. I'm I'm not settled on it. I'm not settled that that is that's the answer.
I'm again I kind of am am tossing around in my head this idea of do we not form maybe two two positions that you then create opportunity for people to to move in and out of that lessen his load. But
we're not we're not endowing them with executive level privilege that we may later wish we hadn't because we have in the past. So that that's that's kind of where just being open and honest because that's
what we have to do. Um I'm not sold that it's it's it's a single position. I'm I'm thinking maybe it's more, you know, if if they're depending upon what he is describing to us as are his issues, then maybe it's it's
more to physicians, maybe it's it's simply us challenging the what's happening and saying, "Okay, well, if if you're getting inundated with HR issues, then you need to be looking at your foremans or I'm I don't know what the Forgive me, I don't know
what the a supervisor. Supervisor, your supervisors, if if they're funneling all of that up to you and you're getting inundated with that, then they're not supervising. Exactly. Some something's breaking down. If if if you're getting flooded with HR and and those type of
complaints. So, so maybe there's some tweaking there that needs to occur. And and I'm again, I'm not he has done a fantastic job. I'm not saying that he hasn't, but I I'm just I'm wrestling with this. I don't know that the deputy
city manager or a single position is the answer here. Go ahead. I I don't I don't think we can afford to plus try to get that
division funded and up and running the way I I've always since I've gotten on here have said it's not, you know, we've got to structure that. She needs there needs to be a chief. There needs to be a day-to-day person and then everything else that falls underneath it. What if
we to find some kind of compromise because to me I don't want to be stuck with a somebody who thinks they're second in command of this city and me have to take them should something happened to him. That's what I'm hearing your concern is. I have that concern. So I'm willing to structure
whatever the answer is for his need. I don't care what we call it. It doesn't have to be a deputy city manager. It to me, I don't mind if it's called a public works director, but that whatever that role is has to it's not
just public works. It's got to have some other functions that are administrative tasks that So, what I'm saying is we just have to be creative and call it I don't know what the name of it is going to be, but I think it should just be
one. But it should not be somebody that thinks that in the event that something happens to the city manager, they're automatically the person that should step up to the plate to Yeah. report to us. Mr. Mayor, I think Yeah. So, of the
two positions, you know, here we're talking about budget and and I'm well aware of your your needs and what have you, but you know, which of the two positions or some hybrid or whatever uh position would save save us money would
be in a position to make these departments work more efficiently, take some load off of you in the in the areas that you need. Um, but I'm not familiar. I I you know, you you you make reference to the problems before having a deputy
assistant. I don't know what set that up or if that was if there's something that could be done better second go around if we did it again, but we can consider and and look at that. Maybe maybe there was I don't I know nothing about that, but we could certainly look at whether we
can do that in a better way uh that that we can live with or whatever. But of the two positions, which would immediately begin to be able to take some of this off of you and make these departments operate as efficiently as possible
because that's where the budget comes in to me. I thought we were having a conversation on how to um save money. Well, not create positions. Well, back to my point. Back to my point, please. This is this is exactly what saves money
is the right people in the right place. And so that's my point and and that's what I'd like us to consider in in deciding whether these two positions if it's a position that can can get in there right right away and make a huge difference in workload and saving money
to five minutes guys that absolutely applies to budget. Yeah. So I think one of the things and like I told staff we talked about this it you know and council was getting with HR I use HR example Julie's here so that you understand it's it's not as much
people not you know taking care of their employee it's I had to sign off on everything and that's just one example I'm not saying I don't want to do it that's not getting in but the way the city structure is much different than let's take the county for example those directors are empowered to make certain decisions that our directors are not
empowered to make so we've got 13 I got 13 reports 12 reports that all need my attention and I can't fully give them their attention fairly. There's thing and I'm not saying it's not because we're not doing our jobs right make very clear but I know Julie's got two things in my inbox. He's been trying to get done for months. I just don't have the time to
get around to it and she doesn't have the authority to make those decisions. That's just the way we're structured. And I recognize that. I'm talking about moving it up to the council level and working through it. If I don't have time to review it or meet with each one of you about it, I'm just not going to bring it. I I think that's fundamentally
what we're here for. So if you need if you need fundamental structure change in in the way things are are are done so so that it streamlines that to me that's what the five of us are elected for. Yeah. And that may be and that may be the compromise to save money is to give people give directors more authority
over certain decisions to a certain level. Yeah. Maybe. And as long as the council's comfortable with it, I'm comfortable with it. I just want to make sure there's there's decisions that are probably made you probably won't know about after the fact, you know, because we get those phone calls. I I give you all those calls. Y'all give me those. y'all give them to me of well I didn't
really know that was happening you know if I don't know they're happening I'm not going to be able to give them to I'm not going to be able to inform you first. So I think that's a fund like you said a fundamental change of our our willingness to do that I think Melinda Henderson resident of
the city I think Mr. Ber was right. Um, we need to consider the responsibilities for the supervisors that he has and giving the supervisors more responsibility to a
certain level which will allow him time not to direct them but to coach them if they come to a decision point where they don't know which way to go. And right now he's doing it and not coaching them
because he doesn't have the time. So I think you hit the nail on the head. We need to re-examine the um responsibilities of the department heads. Um and the VA chief nurses write
disciplinary actions. And you know there's um there's a a a position there's a time up the ladder that other people get to review that but they can certainly do um the lower levels. Yeah. So yeah, and
it's not just disciplinary, you know, that's it's it's a really across board couple minutes. Randall utilities. Rand has all the utilities, right? Everything in utilities, I sign off on, you know, I'm aware of the availability layers. We're aware of things that we approve.
You know, if he's going to run utilities, he needs to be able to do that quickly. There are certain things that Danielle should be able to do without coming to me and saying, "Co, we need to talk about this." She should just be able to do it if that's what we're talking about. So that that's what we're getting at is that is that next level of authority or ability. I say I
say that is the priority in my opinion that we bring that back. I think you need to bring that back because that's what I'm saying. You're you just said what I heard was 13 to1. You've got 13 and that's what I'm talking about with finance. I know some things now that are
going to come back forward on the audit and that those are the things these are foundational things that we can change and we need to change and that's why I want to get her division kind of similar you know you can't be expected to do all the work and
then accommodate us as well so mayor no matter what y'all decide on this uh position. It's not going to happen overnight. In the
meantime, do you have the authority and the wherewithal to take this employee that's want to step up to the plate for a mere $3 an hour to take HR and finance off your shoulders and to get that help on a temporary basis until whatever
whatever this dis decides to be a permanent fixture to get you some help right now. No, council. I'm not I'm not in favor of a band-aid. I'm in fa I can do the job. we can continue the jobs we're doing until we find a permanent fix. Again, I go back to what what you're suggesting
and is giving someone some authority that that's not their job description. That's what we're talking about right here. You either have to create a position that has those authorities or you have got to delegate authority to the directors more than what they currently
have. So, I'm not because what you're talking about there's no one that's already got has the authority to do that. I'm the only one that has it. And so they have a title. We've given people what I'm hearing is we've given people basically you're you're a
director but you have no authority basically. It it has to come up to your level to say yes or no and that's functionally incorrect. They have to a certain level but it's yeah that's functional that that's a dysfunction that we can correct. I totally agree and that's what I express to them. They're
all very they're all professional. We all have the ability to do that. Training and experience what it's like to make those hard tough decisions. Uh you feel like you're closer to coming up
with a plan that will fit in the budget. Yeah, we'll definitely have another one of these uh probably in May and we'll bring back like we talked about the graphs and the chart showing you the expenditure increases over the few last few years, the employee numbers that have positions. Um and then we'll talk
about Daniel and I get together about what that difference actually is. I can tell you it's 15%, but what made that 15% difference? Okay. All right. Well, we're going to crank back up with our regular council meeting about seven or eight minutes and so we're going to adjourn this workshop. Halloween.