March 4th it is 5:22 p.m. and we will go to 2A which is the notice of procedures of the planning board yes okay plan board did meet last night we
talked to them U and really the only thing that they had I asked them multiple times make sure was the notice think requir we spoke about oh yeah um so Chris and I talked about basic recommended uh before planning board meetings I to come for planning board a
15-day notice to believe residence within a 500 foot radius of the subject property so it would be essentially the same exact notice that goes out prior to AC council meeting um if the council if we go through this you know want us to
advertise in the paper we can it's about $260 for an advertisement right now so we were not going to advertise in the paper but send mail out to those residents with 500 foot radius of the property very similar to what go up for Council meetings I was about to say it wasn't pretty much wasn't the request
and the discussion last meeting just to basically make it consistent with with whatever we were doing with some of the other the other notices so is is that what you're recommending is that consistent with I believe it is and Chris W he had a personal he had take his fiance had
medical emergency today but um I would double but I'm pretty sure it's just consistent with with the one he sends out to the council other then we were not going to advertise the newspaper but if that's what we want you want to do in the code we can do that yes sir doesn't the notice if they
go ahead and provide it for the planning cover the council as well so couldn't it double double duty so we wouldn't be having a significant increase in cost we can we can look at it um I'm gonna I'm gonna op on the head say no because those noes will say first reading second
reading on technically that's not a first or second reading of the planning board it's there review and recommendation to the council but we can double check that okay well this this kind of goes back to discussions we've had in in previous budget years of let's make sure we're
collecting fees that cover our expenses so if we're if we're going to have an advertising requirement and there's going to be two advertisements in the paper then at a minimum we should collect $500 for whatever the the process is that induces this so I that's
to me the easy way to solve it is put the put the cost back on the people that are requesting the change true but if there's an opportunity to reduce the cost for everybody I think that'd be great sure sure yes so we can I can find out about that if if it would count as the first one um in terms of the fees
and revenue uh Chris and I have sat down here a couple weeks ago maybe two months ago now uh and worked that out looked at those fees and compared them to Freeport and some other places so we've got that back we're working with Clay to get that information updated to get it to you'all um but because I'm on top of
that um I think it was either the it was mid 24 or late 24 I double check the county um for Fire review of plans they no longer do that for us anymore so we do it ourselves so the fire chief does it so part of updating the fees is
adding in a fire review fee um for that as well so those are things working on we'll work with Mr ainson to get that updated well it's interesting you mentioned the Fire review fee because I had a discussion with u with some of the the firemen in an event about six months
ago and they mentioned the Fire review process and that a lot of times they will go out to the site to do the review and they won't be ready or they you know have to make multiple trips out there for for whatever reason so I'm all for making sure that we're we're covering
our cost on on those kind of things correct so add the Fire review fee in there um then we looked at obviously increasing the planning review fee allog together because of uh uh the cost that our consultant charged to review it but
putting in there a second fee so there's the first initial one which will cover your first and second review because you know talk to Mr walls not almost all the time there's going to be some sort of feedback of that first review it's just a natural given so that first fee would recover the first review and then the second would they no changes need to be
made but if you had to come out for a third or anything more than that every time after that you pay an additional fee per review because you didn't get it done the first time m under that first review fee yes sir something I've run into at
the in other department and other other government entities is that uh uh yeah you pay a fee yeah you might send it back but the problem usually isn't about uh Corrections or modifications the problem
is we can't get stuff back as clients as users as Citizens um so I just I will warn you know as soon as you start doing a fee we need to maintain performance and we need to be responsive now I do think
we are uh more responsive as a city in general I say we are probably more responsive than um any well I will say this more responsive than any other entity I've dealt with so I'll just leave it at that but um I just want to make sure as we start to add fees you
know we can't have a decline in service because otherwise that's that's going in the wrong direction corre so I just caution yeah and I agree like when you're not having to pay something or you're paying a very de Minimus amount obviously the expectation is okay well you know I can give them a little bit of
leeway on response time but when you're you're paying a hefty fee oh yeah then yeah the expectation is that there's a amount of there's a bar professionalism correct and I think two one um agreed I mean if we won't obviously if it's a city's fault or we're causing the delay
we wouldn't charge them those additional you know you know after the first one but it was it's really so it's for those that we've have a lot of these that'll come in and it won't be a whole put together plan and they'll just want to sit there review five times over again we're to pay that Consultants doberry our current Engineers to do that so
that's what that's for and then hopefully through uh maybe some of the the bids we have gotten depending on what engineering firms the city goes with you know bringing in that new firm bring in current firm whoever uh with a new understanding of hey we're imposing these fees we expect a certain level of service to be given for them so
so was that part of the RFP that no no but it will be so our our current engineering firm duberry Consulting they do provide Plan reviews planning review so whoever the new firm will be whether that be two new ones whether that be duber and another whoever they we would have to select one of those to either do
all of our planning reviews or we would I guess I'll come to you just a second but I guess play we here I would ask is there the ability for us to put in an SLA a service level agreement that says when we send you a a plan review
you have you know three business days to provide a response or whatever whatever the case may be I don't see why we couldn't um I don't know why we could not include that in the continuing Services agreement okay right uh you know because that RFQ I go look it had
I'd say at least if not more than eight um bullet points of services for them provide so planning review um you know engineering architectural uh cultural whatever that's called the name of it but there's a bunch so I don't see why we couldn't in that agreement put in
their section for plan review in particular and say you know it's expectation of this whatever yes sir so we're kind of venturing a little yeah off of it but I have one more question to keep us off track okay go ahead
um does the process have Clarity in terms of the requirements and are they being pre-checked when they're being submitted why I'm asking is if if we're rejecting stuff um that usually means that it's incomplete and it shouldn't have been accepted what I've actually
run into which is a nightmare and if we ever go down this route I hope we get it right is I've submitted I've submitted in the state of Hawaii in the state of Hawaii they've gone to an automated AI basically pre-check if you don't use their title
block and you don't have a 4 and 1/2 in by 4 and 1/2 in box in the correct location on a sheet it will reject every you've gotten you won't even know why if you don't have the right date format they'll send it back if you don't have and I say right their interpretation of what's right in terms of day formatting sheet numbering everything in other
words they've modified all the conventions to their will and whim um and it is a bureaucratic nightmare that's the bad extreme on one side The Other Extreme on the other side is we accept things that aren't complete
and then we reject after doing a full review and then we're at all this time time and then we just give them all the latitude in the world to just walk all over us somewhere between the two there's a happy place and uh and so at the building department it's it's fairly reasonable they're going to check that
everything that's on the checklist is in there and if it's not they're going to kick it back to you right there and not waste staff time to handle it at the at the clerk level so you know do we feel good about the process do we feel like we're getting a lot of things reviewed because of in and kicked back because of
incompleteness or are people just changing stuff um and if they are yeah they got to pay because those reviews are not cheap yeah so again I think that's more of a pay make sure that uh everything is tight and and reasonable if you're seeing multiple reviews and
we're rejecting it uh because they're changing their mind or they're incomplete one if it's incomplete we shouldn't have accepted it I put that a little bit more on us uh if it's you had to get dig into the review to see that it's incomplete that's different that's on them uh and if they're just changing stuff that's on them and then we got fees so I just
be let's be reasonable let's be practical don't let it hurt us but don't um and don't let them walk all over us well definitely the change will have to be on them because if you're not you you wasting time just going over and over repetitious so therefore and yeah and if we're not charging them anything they'll
do that to you forever right I'm hoping Chris will be here next time kind of speak to a little more of the process he has but uh since obviously I've been doing this Chris might you know talking to him he typically will not bring a task or or duber to begin review until he has worked with that person proposer to make
sure that everything that duber needs to review so you know if you need you know 10 check off items he's he has all check 10 check off items there prior to sending it over for review um but how he gets to that point internally we would have to ask him okay thank you so I'm
assuming you guys will bring this back yes so I believe Chris Wallace he was going to work on writing up um or providing changes to Clay to the appropriate ordinance okay but that's all they came up with that's all I asked them numerous times and really only thing they have from a notice or either a procedure standpoint the planning
board was just a notice as they seemed everything else was going very well so okay all right any public comment on this before we move on see none all right we'll move on to 2B chapter 11 code
enfor so um we kind of were just chitchatting a little before I think this is where we're going to just review this flowchart that you have and then what was the other the other item that we wanted to really I think we wanted to after this kind of maybe formalize or finish up a batement y thoughts on
abatement some of the requirements or you know expectations Jesse would you pull up the flow chart please so you you wanted to flow chart this is the best course of action where the city manager basically has final
um approval on on most items so basically the um applicant would present a um application to the the planning department and with all the documentations that's needed to review everything Chris doesn't the uh the the version you've given a $200 application
fee yes so there'll be what we just decided in here will be a $200 fee okay so the planning department would sit down review everything all the documentation he's gone through and I would get with the Violator once we come
up with a um solution what we think is the price now as you see the the violation would not be lower than what the city has into the violation so we have $2,500 in in the violation the
violation would never be lower than that amount so once that has been agreed upon it goes to the where you can see where it says plan Department violator agreement if the person says yes it goes to the city manager for his final approval if for some reason the city
manager says no and kicks it back it comes back to the planning department I sit down with the notes that the city manager has giv me and I basically rework it out with the um the Violator if the um city manager says yes then it
goes to the um magistrate for basically final order so that to be red reduced and I can do a order to have the lean closed out once he pays now if for some reason we get there and the Violator and I cannot coming to
an agreement it automatically goes to the city manager to set up a meeting with the um violator so they can try to negotiate something if the um violator agrees to what they to talk about it goes back to the city um magistrate to basically do
an order to close out the fines and everything but if for some reason the cander and the Violator cannot agree it goes to the magistrate and she has the final say so being in the city's favor or being in the Violator favor or
somewhere in between questions comments on flow chart see just blow it's F only thing I had was when you when you go through the flow and you go up to yes to the city manager and let's say the city manager
says no just curious why it comes all the way back to the review application documentation step versus just basically going back to the the other black triangle there of negotiation well I would hopefully the
city manager had left me notes that way I can go through as in why he's turning it down and that way I can sit with the Violator because maybe the city manager says maybe we have an agreement where it's $4,000 but the city manager says no he sees something that no the fin should be
less than 5,000 I would sit down with the Violator explain it to them this is where we're at it's not going to be agreeable but we'll agree to this amount then see if he'll say yes and go through it that way we're not tying up the city manager hands at that point in time or
taking it straight to the um magistrate for their decision so I think one way to look at it is when the city manager says no really it's a modification to the uh application and so that's what the notes that Chris is getting back is
essentially modifying the the request which is the application okay so it would go back to the application point because you're modifying that agreement rework the agreement and then you're just pushing back forward so I see I see why in terms of you're getting comments
Back and You're modifying the application as part of a negotiation okay so two question one only one only one application fee no matter how many times right then like goes so if it like I said goes over goes up and then says
no it goes back how many times is that going to happen now it's an endless loop so we're going to set okay it can only happen twice and then it has to go to mediation or you know you ask him a question you got a time period you ask him a question
yeah before I before I give my two sentence I'll I'll let you guys make a comment on what you think it should be the fee or the times the time limit um I don't think you should go
through that step more than twice I mean I agree because you're wasting his time he he didn't talk to you and try to help you so why you have to keep badgering it okay I'm I'm good with two I'm good with two so was there a question about the
fee are we going to keep you're saying if you can't reach are we going to charge a fee for it to go back through is that no I just want to clarify it just seems like just one one time 200 fee and then that gives you your your chance of essentially three times because right you got two for the manager at a Max and you got one for the
master at a Max because she's only here at one time so I agree we also got very low amounts that we're talking about so we had a $400 fee on $400 fine I start to have a problem with the process
yeah okay every so everybody is good with this with the the limitation that it can only go through this process twice or if did that Loop twice and then we would just need to have some sort of uh just some language or disclaimer you know stating if denied twice by the manager the third time it
would automatically go revert back to special magistrate for decision so arrows yeah after your second Rejection it goes straight to the magistrate yeah we just put in some language rather than another arrow do that on okay we're good with that sir the other part was just did y'all have any other
changes that you wanted to go with through chapter 11 I me so quick question on this so um so like Chris said like that that third yellow box talking about can't be lower than what the city you know has invested in in
it are you'all wanting to put some limits on that on the I don't know I guess I want to say the variability right because if someone comes and they've got a $30,000 lean do you leave in discretion for the manager to go from 30,000 to the amount invested or
or you know someone's got 30,000 vers someone who's got a $3,000 fine there a big difference in reducing about 500 versus you know 275 now depends on the the egregiousness of the violation and the time spent and all that I get it but
that's up to y'all do you want to somehow put some numbers to it or is it really a you know you got to figure it out and make a judgment so in in that scenario they're coming to us because they've already remedy the the violation
right so I I go back to what I said at the previous meeting is if we're bringing them into the compliance if we're bringing the property into compliance then the city's already won and whether we got 30,000 out of them or whether we got $500 out of them the city
already won we got the compliance that we needed the property's been mitigated and and the the violation has been resolved so sir you at kind of like we had we had another guy here we've had a couple last most recent bought the property did the
work right and the amount of money he put into the property brand compliance was because typically what we've done that we talked about is if it was a $60,000 fine and they put $30,000 with the work we took 30 subtract from fine and okay you got 30 left um is that kind of still the practice we want to go off
of like this last guy the amount of money he put in was greater than our fine so we just reduced it to 2500 which is what City had investing in time and everything with a violation I'm I'm okay with that scenario I guess what I what I don't want to do what I don't want to see
happen right is hypothetically I buy a piece of property that's got a $60,000 fine on it and I go out there and I clean it up and then I claim oh well I'm worth $2,000 an hour and I put in you know 500 hours and all a sudden you owe
me you know one of those type of things where it's like I think we we probably ought to establish some sort of to your point some sort of reasonable bounds in other words we're we're not going to allow people to assign like a dollar dollar value to their their time that's
you know above and beyond what would typically be paid I would actually almost reach out to a general a normal contractor who does the work and basically set an hourly wage this is basically if they normally charge $25 an hour to do it and normally it only takes
so many hours to do it that's going to be the kind of of the um well we've had a couple of people do that right so have the ones who come so they'll come to Chris and they'll bring documentation of the expenses associated have they had labor hours on there no normally they if they had a person
actually do the work for them they'll bring it in and it cost them $10,000 to have a demo so I actually have the paperwork showing it was actually demo for $10,000 okay and then I actually because I actually have true documentation yes so that's what I want
pure evidence that they're actually Pro writing this yes so I I would support as long as we write in some sort of that there is actual documentation of money spent not hypothetical again of like yeah you know I'm gonna charge myself
$500 an hour for doing the service type of thing that's what we've done yeah I don't necessarily want to discourage if if if Mr Greg here who who's very a very capable man decides he wants to handle that himself I don't want to discourage somebody so to me that's where having
some sort of maybe agreed upon here's what we will if if there's no documentation because the owner did it themselves but he should have receipts where he bought the shingles he bought the EES he bought the windows if he brings all the documentation into me that gives me something to base off
information yes they're gonna have they're going to have to provide something so so I guess I'm thinking of a case where there's not outside of maybe fuel expenditure for you know equipment there's not necessarily A materials Bill like you're you're
assuming that every violation is going to require some sort of materials like what what happens in maybe a a demo where someone has themselves what he would do on that is that he would if he had to rent a tractor say from South wal rental center he would he would know
what it rented for he need to bring him that receipt or if he had his own tractor there you can combine it which that's his the the owner problem he could combine it and let him know how many hours it calls for this this much work and that was that would work in
that if you want to use that scenario and I think I can help with this um so they're gonna they're gonna know how much it costs if they were doing it themselves they would have done it before we would't get into a code issue but let's say that we do run into that if they're not going to bring receipts
and and costs actual costs uh it's at the manager's discretion of how much it costs right or can pay for a estimate themselves but it's same as a survey if they were going to have a survey they got to pay for it if they're GNA have an estimate they gotta pay for
it so if they want to flip the bill for that and not provide documentation and and they disagree with the city manager again this is the process that's giving them latitude put the burden back on them I mean I don't want to be unfair but again they're already in a code violation they've got to fix something you want to give them an option fine
we'll allow you to get an estimate yeah yeah I mean that's like the discretion part of it like what you're saying you know I give something because if you hire someone come do it they're going that labor is getting wrapped into that overall charge where Mr Greg doing himself he's probably worth $25 an hour but you don't see that
right so we could you know we could just say okay how many hours you spend on it maybe base that off the city's minimum wage and say okay this is how many this is what will credit you for every hour you worked on the project or whatever so I get a lot of heartburn on that because if if that's the case why didn't they fix it before well no no no in in the scenario that I'm that I'm envisioning
is oh a buyer someone purchases the property real you know realizes after the purchase oh man I I messed up there's some judgments here but I happen to own a business that can handle clearing out the property you're doing
whatever and they just they they take care of it right we don't want them to to miss out on that opportunity of claiming that but then again I also don't want someone to come in and use that as a loophole to say you know I'm an exorb amount of money per per hour
but I can like said I can probably reach out before all this and get an idea a couple of contractors and say hey look if you have a square how much per square footage do you normally charge to demo a house on average that would give us a base figure what we could look at so
that you you have came in you did it yourself okay based off these three people that con contract or talked to in the past they charged about we'll say $150 every square foot well it's 100 square
foot house and okay that gives me a rough idea of what it normally would cost if he did it and then we that will give us a a figure so I don't disagree with that concept but I feel like that puts a lot of work on you but if I already have if I
already have the numbers if I go ahead and reach out to the three contractors that do this for a living and say hey look what do you normally charge per square foot then all I have to do is just you know do a quick calculation of the square foot of the house and say Here's your number true but are you going to keep that updated like every
six months or every year like I probably would do every year but they're also they're also working very closely with contractors and and roofers and yeah and so when we run into an issue and you have a house that you need a number on
they're actually reaching out and getting people to do drive by a you know cost estimate on what it is they can they got a cost estimate on a demo versus a roof repair um within a day um again so they're they're working with the contractors because again it's in the contractor's
best interest if they can start picking up work that easy I mean why wouldn't they do a drive by braz them so that again it's it's a relationship it's an informal relationship we cannot recommend any contractors and we cannot certify or verify any contractors we can
we can qualify them in terms of to qualify to work within our programs but that's a whole different thing but the CRA is yeah you got required to have your your per uh your business license in the city yeah which helped the city and at the
same time he had to be on that list yeah to do business in the city and so therefore you can give that list to the individual is in violation and they can pick whoever they want actually they don't have to be in the city any contractor in the State of
Florida could do so they don't they may not be in the city I understand that but most of the time they were r with the city and the city could tell them who all is Rel with the city as far as the license and all because that's one of the requirements is that not so no no we
could qualify so if you if you have a business in Crest you and you have occupational license in Crest you where you're B brick and mortar business is you don't have to have AAL license in the city of defunc you just have to show us that you have one for the city to
Crest you and you're by for a law okay you can do business inside the city limits we the city cannot charge you another occupation license if you already have one in the where your main office is in Florida yeah and we we run
into a lot of legal issues with providing lists because the minute someone's not on that list and they should be we get in trouble they feel wrong so the CRA are they they do have a list um we don't we have not verified any of that but I Works contracts and
all this as well but I think formalizing this is going to allow it'll allow time Chris to deal with the applicant come to me we can work through it over time we'll end up setting it you know set of internal procedures or practices that we will always refer back
to when the people are applying for these things so yes sir so um you mentioned if they bought it bar had the lean on it but you can't you can't get title to it while it has a lean on it so you'd be notified unless unless you just didn't do a title search they're buying them off that tax
te they're not buying them from individuals at that point we're kicked out of the process anyway aren't we not if you got lean still attached no it's still which it's only if it's a bank yes that we have the is a bank can kick us out based off of foreclosure um talking
to our magistrate arlans survive on the tax on the tax R from from our magistrate by forid a statue supposedly our leans survive I say bu everywhere yeah cuz I am aware of that particular
scenario occurring previously yeah and that's what's happening the one time we did have you know the man who wanted to man want to sell another property it came up showed that said he had a violation so that's when we had to go through all that settlement before they could even sell the property but people are coming all the time buying off tax D
they have no idea yeah because they're not running the title search on them or they're doing cash and they're not doing a title search there's a couple on that that's on them yeah I've seen that so so's right have we kind of landed
like that we want some like minimums and maximums I think so I think Chris and I like said we can we can create internal practice that I think it be fair across the board we can formalize that okay I agree I I really didn't love the rigidity of
the timeline but I think I'll defer to the executive I think it allows yall some some flexibility too over time if Council switches attitude we want to do something different then we're just changing internal practice go change an
ordinance to you know to align with that I guess I would like to see it maybe at least in at least to voted in as a resolution it doesn't have to be an ordinance I would agree so one of the things I know you and I had talked about a while back policies taking all you know maybe
they're not the purchases Poli long story short I found another version of real likes putting together so we could do that we could create that internal you know code reduction fine policy Council passes it goes in that manual and then that's what you refer to and every once we changed you just quickly change
it yeah and that goes back to what he and I had a conversation about is you know for example before my tenure on the council the council had voted on any unanticipated Revenue had to come to the council right that's to our knowledge that's not really in any kind of policy
anywhere that's not in any sort of book that the clerk can reference or that the finance director can reference to know okay this is what I need to do and so we we need some way of actually when the council takes action and sets policy via vote as another example um you know when
certain things occur throughout the year you know the the council especially in the last few years has become very active in saying hey we want this to occur like as an example um uh the insurance being aligned with the budget process you know for a while
the insurance occurred after the budget process right so having all the all that in a mangle so I know that's a far fi from the particular Topic at hand but we could do exactly that yeah okay all right so that'll come back to us yes all
right anything else on chapter 11 Mr Chris did you want to cover I think the abatement I think we're gonna ask for maybe a similar thing if you agree with the language of the abatement the abatement language in the in the code we will work on that again an internal
policy that could be approved if you like to at a council level of you know where we doing abatements Chris and I again are on the same opinion of they need to be for a specific thing we talked about the building department comes out they verifies unsafe structure you know we're only talking about demos and they're not they're not to exceed a
certain dollar amount um to be put on the tax roster because we want to Reg we want to recoup those funds but if we put it something that's too high it's probably not get paid so then somebody's out of money now we talked about last meeting we did meet with you know Josh before the last one um you know CRA
seems to be open to the idea mou of the magistrate takes and says okay this property is just to be corrected in 30 90 days if not need to be abated by the city we have M of CR we give all abatements to the CRA they pay for the abatement and then it's done and then Chris goes through the process of non-ad
assessment and we move on okay so you're going to just bring back that in a formalized form or yeah we can do that as well you good with that I'm good with it yeah long as the formalize that's that's the only way you can go with that
so I'll I'll open the floor up for any public comment on the code review process or the U abatement process any any public comment okay seeing done um with uh Council not here tonight
I don't know that we have a whole lot to cover on 16 and 17 does anybody have any comments or anything they want to make on 16 or 17 we did y'all approve chapter 11 to move to the council are we waiting on I think we were GNA wait on that right or am I missing okay no I think what
we're talking about are the two internal policies that is the actual code that needs to be updated that's the actual so the abatement is not you so the batement portion or the batment modifications that we're talking about are the policy portion only well the
batement SE is actually in here but how how we're going to do with with c and all that be internal it won reference and that one has enough reference in it to defer to that no so chapter 11 is talking about um
establishment of the of the code findes and the leans and then the reduction of leans they we will create that internal policy of how we're going to go about reducing leans along with this this SL chart how we do it the second part of that ordinance is a batement is establishing the city does a batement
this is how you do a batement and then the non- aor assessment we would then bring you back again that internal policy that will explain they'll tell we only Abate certain structures right now at the city the dollar Mount we also have to have an mou with a CRA I know we we talked previously about
including the CRA inside of the code but the C is limited in its timeline correct well but hold on though on page Jesse on page if you click on Code Enforcement and then go to page 20 it should be section
1147 so I think I think we probably need a little bit of clarity as to how you're going to tieb back that internal policy to this yeah so keep in mind though these sections right here the last SE were actually in chapter
14 okay so they already these were already pre-approved by Council before y'all right so I just moved them from chapter 14 because really they had no reason to be in chapter 14 so I moved over here to chapter 11 for um to clear up 14 but
also put it with code enforcement okay but does does anything in 1147 need to be harmonized with what we just discussed as far as we're going to take this and convert it into a internal policy I do not think so my personal
opinion um or profal opinion um this was written so that you can do say right now the our internal policy is we're going to do the the big stuff such as structures that need to be done this is written though 10 years down the road
where we have a lot more happening and we have more code enforcement officers that if we need to start doing abatements of other things that are minor or not so severe structures we can still do those if we want to but be based off
of what the city council directs us what what what you want us to do I mean eventually if we have a hoarder you may want us to go remove all the stuff from around the house true but I still would like to see something in code
reference the policy that we we just discussed Oho saying something about like you know the council will establish a policy to the parameters of a bait whatever there just need to be the general something has to reference out similar to what we do with um uh we just did something where we took it out of
the code and we said these fees will be established by resolution correct yes yes yes correct that does that make sense because that Chris and I can work on that right because again and we need to coordinate that carefully with the CRA and its mandate and its abilities so
that we're not creating the situation where they can't do it because they're acting as an extension of the city so it has to be that has to be run through Council but I think I think what we're we're also saying is like if I'm if I'm regular Citizen and I yeah and I come to
the code to to find out what my process is then all of a sudden you you say well guess what there's this whole other process over here that's not referenc in the code that we've got it's internal I don't think that's fair to to the citizens so you can come and say well this is it should be a status resolution what resolution
is5 yeah please go look at this I got we can do that we can put that Lang so we won't we'll bring it back we'll bring this back with that language okay all right and then we'll we'll move it to the council yeah all right everything good on chapter 11 before we move
on so we're GNA skip to C and D because council's not here um there's not a whole lot we can do other than hold just some general discussion when it comes to 2E which is signage um I kind of want to maybe just open open that up with um had an
interesting conversation with a business owner in town and they were talking about purchasing a new sign um and it really got me kind of thinking about signage in town and and what's the best way to approach it because I could
foresee the the type of signage restrictions that we we or at least that I've envisioned us considering actually being incompatible with what they were discussing actually having done and of course their conversation led me to believe that they
were investing pretty heavily in this new signage so how how do we work with our businesses right because the the business owner brought up the fact that they were swapping out their signage so that they could communicate to the general public more of kind of
the product that they're carrying you know the particular brands that they were carrying I go back to that then got me thinking about um many many years ago I don't know if there's anyone in this room that would would know this besides maybe you guys and maybe Chris but down in Freeport distinct of Cycles when it
was built um ran a foul with Freeport signage because they had two of the same signs they had they basically had it mirrored and their code didn't allow them to do that so they had what was what was the brand of motorcycle it wasn't Harley but it was
Indian it was one of those it was one of the smaller Brands and they basically had the same brand logo on either side of the building just to kind of make it symmetrical well according to freeport's code they couldn't do that so they had to take it down and I think they put like seu up um something else but to me
that was just an idea I'm I'm referencing that because everybody agreed universally that was just kind of silly it was one of those like what were they thinking when they put it in there so that's to kind of I'm I'm saying all that to kind of provoke some thought some discussion around what do we want to accomplish with signage right as you
drive down 90 and 331 we've got different issues that we want to tackle right we've got the the plethora of Mile High signs down here near the interstate we've got a lot of varying type of signage all on n0 here
we've got a historic district that we want to think about so you know again I'm just trying to kind of prompt some conversation I would love to see the audience filled with more business owners so that we can hear from business owners as well because it's it for me personally if I want to paint something
on the side of my building that advertises either a tenant upstairs or you know my wife's business that's my building I should be able to put whatever I want on my building I understand that you might be able to regulate what's out front of my building obviously for me I have zero lot line
but come down the street a little bit and let's look at the gym that's down the street maybe he decides he doesn't want to do that hanging around sign anymore he wants to do some other type of sign you know like him him painting or the previous owners painting Main Street
Fitness on the side of that building to me that's in keeping historically with what's been done right Coca-Cola murals and and and the like I don't want to discourage that but I don't want to see some you know like neon sign come up downtown that's
in congruent with you know historic keeping so but then again at one point on the side of my building was a very modern for its day sign that had the temperature on it and it club and that's right that's right
so me there's a lot of a lot of things to consider so I I'll stop and I'll let you guys chump in so this is one of those things like uh like house it's it gets very personal very fast and there's a lot of folks that they will talk about
the marketing of the business and this and that but they really have no understanding of how it actually functions they just think if it's bigger it's better and that reality is um that's not true because what happens is it becomes visually overwhelming because everyone starts competing and so what
what they try to do in Freeport and nville and other areas they try to strip it down they create limit ations so that it's not it's not a you know escalating War you know basically where you you just have to have the biggest sign but
the problem is you're putting it 10 feet away from the other biggest sign and then and they're blocking each other and then you can't see anything and it becomes Time Square and then it becomes Time Square and even Time Square isn't Time Square anymore right Time Square has been stripped down drastically uh from what it used to be because the
truth is you're not able to get your message out if if everyone's screaming at the same ball volume and so this is one of those difficult things where it is going to be about um you people are going to feel very personal about because it's their business and it's their property but the important thing
is to get everybody to the same Level Playing Field so that no one has more an advantage or less Advantage than the other neighbor um but something that's always going to come back on us is you know everyone's fine with it until it's up next to their house or their business
and then you're going to have a real problem when it's you know you know Jimmy's Jimmy's gentleman's club and it's bottles of whiskey you know being poured all over people in the ad then we're gonna have a huge problem with it um and I think one thing that's a safety concern definitely a safety concern is
the flashing and the bright signage that changes flashing colors flashing lights non- dimming uh high intensity very distracting to drivers and how how is it how is it you can have a sign changing every you know 5 seconds and and you're
paying attention to the road it just doesn't come on we're not we're not being realistic so I say that but I'm also going to say that there are going to be different rules in different areas you know what's on 331 is a different speed it's a different distance what's in the downtown a different completely
different environment downtown district different environment 90 Corridor East versus West Side of 331 is completely different environment and I think the code will have to address that councel is correct doing some research such as Crush you they have different sign is
for different corridors I would only say for your historical district you probably want to keep something in reverence for that Historical Area um even the murals I mean I don't think you want a penguin on the side on this building so some of that I would think
you need to have a pre-approved so that you're not getting some so so you don't have a problem with a p being put cross I mean some of that I mean if you keep it I hate to say you keep it too
open you may get something you really don't want yeah but free speech then you have your down new downtown district that you're wanting to do keep you know what you want for over there height-wise and so forth so that
people like me that have to go out there and force some of the stuff it's it's it's not as gray gray gets us in trouble that's right black and white so much better that's right that's right companies have standards that they they self-impose there I don't see I don't
see a whole lot of risque stuff on those and I'm sure someone would want to put something on there some people just want to do it just to make a point that is so I mean take for example the the long running court case between that the
homeowner on the south end you know with his sign that's there on 38 you know that that that's to me another example of where how how many millions of dollars have been spent on that case on both sides finding a $500 sign right
right but if you purchase in a dist just so everybody can hear and it's on the recording Melinda Henderson resident but if you purchase in a district or a a subdivision or something that has
regulations that they have put into place because they want to it to look in a certain way you purchase and you agree to that correct so if you have a downtown historic district and there are
standards if you purchase there then you have to buy into that unless you get some sort of exception I think I I agree with that statement if if it applies to new signage going forward I think the thing that we we
need to wrestle with at some point is how do you handle the current signage right you know if we were to impose some sort of restriction that would basically say that some you know for example the Billboards the Billboards are technically don't meet our uh our code anymore but yet we're going to allow the
Billboards that are here to exist far as I know you cannot remove them Bing the grandfather yes right now they for some reason removed it yeah now falls into our new standards then they'll have to go buy our new standards right speaking
of I thought we had a restriction on removing trees to allow for the viewing of said Billboards that's a state thing actually um our our ordinance right now for commercial property you cannot remove
those trees without permission from the city you talking about the one the corner 331 popx they're actually the we're working through it plan's working through it with the attorney on that okay okay this my understanding that they were told not to do that writing
and they did it anyway anyway and so I've already written a letter and informed them the trees have to be replac with one in C tree six foot tall of the same species that they cut down yeah because I I drove through the other day and I was like whoa that's suddenly visible
yeah okay thank you sorry so so this happened on the south end uh with the scate corridor guidelines that happen along 98 where you had a lot of non-compliant signs they were given a long time 15 maybe longer years uh to
change and come to compliance and that's it was basically established to to match up with the life cycle of the signage itself um that's really the what we're really seeing is a legacy of having lost the sign ordinance for the time that we did because I mean the RB sign was a
much lower everyone knows where our be is um but a much lower sign uh the McDonald sign was a much lower sign most of those signs are actually on a high-speed Road I'm not entirely uncomfortable with that um but what we've seen is the sign restriction went
away everything gets taller taller faster and faster um it takes time I mean the things that we decide today it's going to take 15 to 20 years to see the impact of it but that's just the nature of it but if we if we don't have something in place which is my concern then we're we're going to get a bunch
more of these I mean this isn't done this is the tip of the iceberg and that's my concern for for me I if if if I were asked to rank and priority signage issues I would that type of issue to me would actually rank
lower personally than what I feel is clogging up the city and maybe detracting from the city and that is all of these yard signs for pressure washing or boox or you know none of those are compliant you name it like those aren compliant now they're in RightWay he's
out there pulling them up I have whole bunch of sign my truck right now where I pull them up and my problem is right now they're getting smarter or they'll put washers with bolts so now I have I'll take a p saw cut on both sides of the
tree or the pine or the um telephone pole so there's a little sliver there but I remove the signs so you can't read them yeah but why you know what drives me crazy is that we can't punish them for that I mean actually the the fpn fpnl and all these companies have regulations against attaching something
to their to their poles uh and we have it in our or too you can't attach any sign to a telephone pole and basically right away and we're having a terrible time because we really can't go after them because you'd have to catch them doing it to have a consequence or can you go back after them well I
problem is I can write them citation but if they don't pay it it's not like it's going it pie of property so I I I have a question there yes sir you see it's a regulation right which I knew that but
FPL does not get a city any money for you taking the sign off their pole is it even though you try to make things through the regulation but why not this in the
city why not my question to you is why not because he's cold en forcan if they got so many signs on know if they have their own man Tak sign off the pole that's interesting why can't we charge that fpnl for you know FPL one of the biggest fight I've had with them and
I went to Mr Bernard Johnson in Fort Walton is that they don't want to you put Christmas lights on and I mentioned this to you but they poll is in the city and now I say this and I I'mma stand on it they poll is on private
property and I have received a letter from my personal private property that they want to cut the trees back and do this which I don't care about that and then the sign man come back he want to put a big old sign up down there so I I don't
understand they can put it on private property but now he got to go and use our taxpaying do to take the sign off why can't he give youall some money for that they charge you what you they want to so I'm just seeing something need and
and I did have discussion with Johnson he's in Fort W and uh uh Mr uh Mike he was counsilman I mean the manager he um he helped me get in contact with him because that is one of
the facts I cannot understand I went up to Alabama during the holidays and they lights on the pole but we don't but we got all the reception on the poll that we had all the time but they can charge you what they want I know I don't brn $200 a
month but they give you light bill so here's a man you we paying I just like I say I I don't agree with it sorry I think we need to look into that and do something with it I agree I think it's something that we we need to try to find out if we can put some more teeth in
some of these people that are just running around whether it's trusses or power washing or whatever that it really really rubs me the wrong way to to drive around and see it and is it not they put
it on private property that nobody said inate property well a a commercial piece of property or sign cannot be in the residential area now what a lot of times I'll do let's say a roofing company does a roof I may allow
to stay on the property for a week or two then I go pull it up because by ordinance that's considered an off- premise sign for that company they're not allowed the residential area but since they didn't work I allow them to stay for about a week or so and then I go remove them from the property and
sometimes you know businesses will have that an agreement as part of your purchase especially like selling a buying a home you know your agreement baby that real can lead their sign for a period of two weeks after now if the commercial signs on commercial property then I leave it alone because
it's not there's no violation at if I have a pressure wash business I go to your your store and you say Hey look can I put it on in your window or just right in front of your property where you own it it's a commercial sign on a commercial property and there is no
ordinance for that when I was Contracting through uh Walmart they were bad about putting them out there they was terrible they just put in my way and up my bust alarm ter I mean I really got upset with them so twice week I go around and and Walmart
don't lie that by the way I go around and snatch them up because the my way so that so that's a lot considering you know we had to he had to go through that get in and out all the time so this uh ordinance 577 that's attached to the
agenda item I'd ask about this but I'm I don't know that I ever remember hearing what the answer was but I thought at one point this this ordinance was
implemented and maybe there was even a newer version the ordinance that was implemented um maybe it was in the the late 2000s early teens and it got a bunch of blowback and the council at the time repealed it so
is this inforce or is this the only thing that are enforced um or what's currently in the ordinances at this point time Mr giny did U research these are all the sign ordinances that were in the past okay that the city had
so you know majority of these have been appealed by the previous councils okay so um from your last our last meeting you wanted the basically all the old signage that the city had passed and so we when we did a research
we pulled them all that from basically the last 20 years so which one was the most current um the last one that got removed I would actually have to look at the DAT so whatever call caus that removal was like the uh whether or
not it had the streamers um merchandise outside whether or not it had um merchandise that you were just rolling out in front of your business um because it does get cluttered I you know I'm I understand that if it's not
blocking a sidewalk especially if it's this kind of you know set you know portions that are set way back I really don't see that but um I understand yeah yeah and then there's one in here from 2009 I was trying to just scan
through it to see if that was the one that that I remember I remember everybody kind of revolting over yeah if you you go to code look like article 14 sign ordinance that was ordinance 881 was passed in
2017 and it has has a bunch of sections in there what page number is that oh sorry um it's on the code it's in the code our current code code 14 yeah and it was passed in 2017 ordinance 881 got a number of different uh
sections to him it's got looks like Jesse can you open a new tab and just go to mun code for us and and pull that up what was it uh yeah just you scroll down to it's in it's inside chapter 18 Land Development code uh article 14 sign
ordin so uh chapter 18 scroll down to the left yeah article four keep keep going keep going down right you should see right here somewhere oh there it is yeah that's
it so a in code but we're not enforcing it because it repal this is what I use this is for 18 112 basically dictates that there can be no signs on public property unless we
put them there you section 18 113 signs in districts other than R1 and R2 there shall be no restrictions of regulations concerning signs in districts other than R1 and R2 accept those restrictions of regul that are imposed by state or
federal regulations in the following sections of this ordinance as follows 10678 essentially the rest of the code whatever that basically it's a free throw yeah yeah so we definitely need to address it for for the historic
district uh or uh Central business district I think CBD I CBD um so you know kind of kind of the question I kind of kick
back to and I think the discussion that we need to have with the public as well is what makes Dunc Dunc how do you know you're in defunc Springs because right now if you drive south from my 10 I defy you to tell me you're in defunc Springs that could be anywhere in
Georgia Alabama Carolina there's nothing about that makes me feel like I'm home yeah so so I think people need to have a sincere conversation and and really think about that you know what does it mean to be here um what do you want to
see when you're here you know and if you don't want to see anything different then you could see anywhere else then you know we can talk about that you know maybe it is just the historic districts I don't think that's a good way to go that's not what I would suggest I don't
think that's going to help our long-term prospects in terms of future growth future property values and and the kind of the level of expectations that we would have I mean remember Vegas turned into the Vegas Strip you know because they were all competing for signage when
we look at the worst case scenario of signage that's what you look at I can pull out stuff from the 80s and 90s of those photographs uh even Vegas isn't like that anymore it's a lot more organized and a lot more regimented um that doesn't mean we're going to have Country Club Country Club regulations
and you know outside lit nothing back lit I mean you that's not necessarily the answer either we're not going to do old Victorian signage with gaslighting you know there's not at least not on 331 and 90 so but what are we going to do
it's going to be painful and I think we need to take what we had understand what failed recognize the problems we have now and get that input from the public of you know are you okay with somewhere in between these two
extremes um it's going to be messy but this you know I wanted to address it now because of some of the the big things that we're seeing go up right now and how it's so hard to go back and it's going to take 20 years probably to go
back um if people don't like that but um by the same token I'm not sure we have another year of a land uh land use rewrite land development code rewrite to to wait I agree so you
know and the for for the sake of not having another Workshop because yeah got noticed today about two two workshops what you know is there some advertisement is there something we could do to maybe utilize one of these
existing meetings and that was going to be my question where you want to go with my I guess my recommendation was going to be maybe that Chris and I you know uh Caan Department work to you know work with Main Street notify all the business owners downtown reach out to other businesses along all through town and
that maybe invit to the next meeting and let them know there's going to be a discussion on signage that's up to you I don't know how you want to go about it but I think that's a good idea and I'd be happy you know I think it'd be great to to talk to Main Street Merchants as a group when Main Street has a meeting
that takes care of one group talk to uh you something like forc might be a way to do that within the residential district of the historic district might be a way to have a conversation there why well because you can have bed and breakfast in there and I think you do need to have a conversation about some of those types of businesses that can
happen in residential um I mean some bright manner I mean it's it's a bed and breakfast and that could happen in the historic district just about anywhere um chamber uh DB uh uh downtown business what we used to be downtown is now Dunc
bus business uh that is a good source I wish we had a stronger group outside of the downtown but we we do need to work with those groups and talk to them and get input and but even then you're still only going about 10% best well I think maybe just having
um chrisy maybe develop a few posts that you know can say you know we're we're considering signage regulations again please come to this meeting to to voice your input but but I think if we're going to invite the public in let's make sure that we're prepared to kind of have
some structure too here here are the topics that we want to we want to discuss I think they need some prep I think they need to know before they show up because that's just I think that could cause a lot of confusion yeah um I agree you better be prepared yeah that
one subject there yeah it could just be completely misunderstood I mean we had these old regulations right now we have nothing we need to understand what what people feel and want because if I understand last time they Excuse me yes if I understand last time it was pretty pretty rough when they went through the
saage when they pull it out yeah I mean people really freaked out so do we have either previous regulations I'm kind of looking at staff for this do we either have previous regulations that we like and want to basically just tweak or
do we have maybe examples from other cities that we have seen that maybe we think are doing well so Speaking of Chris I talk Chris W this morning that's the reason kind of add the old ones to kind of let you see them again see if there's something I was that was going to be my probably my recognition to all of you was let us you
maybe let us reach out some of these other cities that are similar to us in terms of size and historic nature I've already got a couple off top I'm thinking about and see if they have some in existence bring those back to you or give them to you let you kind of look out and marry them together and see if there's anything um Chris may have a very good idea pull up Winter Park
you'll see some amazing that's who I was thinking amazing stuff but we do that we're going to be called a country flub yeah well I hate to say it but I do appreciate having gone to you know some
of the some of the the the cities in Central Florida it is nice to drive through and you it doesn't look like the Vegas Strip right everything is you know low consistent it's low and consistent consistent I mean it's all at the end of day what really happens is you get
consistency it's polite it's not yelling at you I don't like being yelled at when I'm driving yeah no one likes to be yelled at yes ma'am at risk of being killed uh this is the political season when I first moved to defunc the little old ladies in my neighborhood came and
said you can only put a a political sign three weeks before the election only however my husband was in business then we did not put up any political signs but later on it just has kind
of and if we do get a National Historic Landmark and begin to get tourists we do have to say what is it you want them to see do you want them to see a great big electrical box right out there and the not not screened by pictures do you want
them to see political signs do you want them to see Jesus saves we've got some of that too this is an example someone CR has um they deal with walls awnings just you keep scrolling down for me
please and they'll they even go later on dealing with like the corridors near the interstate they have the change the signs change and so forth I think this is something that Mr Valley was kind of like edging to as ideas or suggestions yeah I I I
guess for me you know what I do with my building right like I have tenants upstairs that want to put a sign out to let people know that they're there we have a sign on the front of our building like what do I what I attach or what I paint to my building should be my
personal opinion like that's my proper property now what what I technically if I if I had the if I had space out in front of my building to me that's fair gain for regulation but what I attach or doe to my building that's my property and I I
don't I just don't believe the government should be telling me what I should should shouldn't do with my property uh let me let me thr this to c now is it not so that they can be the ones that exist can be grandfathered in and bring everything else in
concordance the new one that coming on board one kind of counc was talking about you either grandfather they're good for the rest of the remainder of their life or you put in a time frame okay there's a new ordinance any existing signs or whatever are only good for the next 10 years and you have to replace them within 10
years I I would I would I would probably get be be generous in in that regard if we're going to put some sort of time limit on them I don't know that for me personally I don't know that you know giving someone an indefinite amount of time right grandfathering it in and they
as long as they maintain it you know it's good for 100 years but I also don't want to give them five years because right you know like I I give the example the business owner that was going to invest heavily in their sign um I could imagine they're probably going to depreciate that over either 20
or 30 years if if they're spending that kind of money into it so I I to me I want to be respectful of the investment that they're making into the into their business and into the to a certain extent the city that or mean someone runs and drives into it or some blows it
over yeah you know the um that was a big part of the arguments and the fights on the on the stuff on 98 when that was done was how long how much leeway are we going to give folks they're they actually cover that all that replacement
stuff very in great detail in terms of when you have to replace if you have to replace and uh I mean gosh some of that stuff just happened in the last few years and that change happened in early 2000s or late 90s but you know
also I don't want I also don't want to be in a situation where we have what they have with a you know Scenic Design guidelines and you've got to paint your building a certain color and you've got you've got a you know board that meets at least once a month to look at all the signage and all the building designs and
everything I mean yeah we're gonna have stuff like that in the historic district but do we really want to look at that kind of stuff on 331 and 90 it's a catch between two because I you know I remember when David Johnson uh put out that led sign
and it wouldn't dim at night and you drive by and get get almost virtually blinded by it depending upon what was flashing on the screen to me that was just obnoxious yeah but how you know how far down the rabbit hole of enforcement do we want to go with this stuff because
it the end of the day that then falls on staff that that's then time that we have to pay City attorney to you know fight with these people you know so I think there's we've got to be smart about it where we maybe not hav't
haven't been in the past you know you know I I from what I remember the last time everybody revolted on it the city clamp down too much on like some of the um temporary signage for I thought the outdoor merchandizing problem it was
like tempor banners and stuff like that yes but then again like I see some need for having some sort of Regulation like you you know you can't put the feather banners up 24/7 and leave them out there you can right now I know you can at one
of those happy you know guys in infl yeah yeah so I think there there's got to be some some com there but I agree we we we definitely need to have our ducks in a row and then you know let's let's consider some sort of advertising plan
to try so do we want to get some examples together provide them to y'all let us work on a little bit of that and then next meeting talk about the examples go over some of it and then start advertising so you kind of have an idea of where you're headed where you think you're headed with the so then
we're talking like inviting you know really really trying to advertise and get public engagement either April or May correct we in March so we would have our first meeting we did that the first meeting we have the next meeting at the first of April and we advertise real hard and give you all time to get an
idea of where you want to go and then put advertising out in the first in the meeting in may we would have that we would hope to get public here most also give you a chance to get LDC rewrite uh or update feedback back from the Consultants because you'll start you'll be having those conversations with those
Consultants at that time and but you won't have to necessarily wait for them to do it you can actually get something ahead of you kind of find the general direction they're going to be doing public Outreach as well they're going to have public meetings I suspect so I think you start to get some good feedback maybe put some placeholders
some guard rails in place just to make sure no one takes advantage of the lack of Regulation now uh and then that full rewrite will will upgrade it get everything cleaned up cuz I think we're only going to do the broad Strokes right now I I don't think that we're set up to
do this I mean this is a detailed long process unless you're just reopt something that we already had yeah um and each district has its own thing I mean just the historic district one could I mean that could be a $50,000 rewrite just on signage if you're not careful
um it kind of spurred to the thought I just on topic a little off but I was visiting family and I don't know if y'all in Miami they have um the sein Indian casino has the Guitar Building part of their signage is the is the guitar itself which is pretty cool when
you're driving in as long as you don't live next to it uh because it'll blast you out but for miles and miles and miles around when you look up the sky you got this big beam of light shooting right up what used to be a darker sky and it's not dark at South Florida
anymore but it used to be a dark sky now it's a gray guy all night long but I tell you what when I when I start around I say like that's I'm in my backyard with my family and I gota live with that no matter what that's that's invasive I
mean there's you know yeah great marketing their marketing my backyard is now polluted with their marketing of gambling and and everything else it's like really really so when you think about signage I mean it's it can be be a
lot worse than what you think it is I mean believe me there are lines that you haven't even imagined yet that someone will put in your backyard so um I think we can get some basic guard rails in place someone's gonna come up with something that's gonna make it way worse than we ever thought yeah but um I'm
just saying just you know food for thought all right any other public comment on signage with that bring my examples for April and then we'll we'll go from there about the meeting well March right we're in March in March now oh yeah that's
right holy cow April man got okay yeah okay any other comments on signage before we move on all right any moving on to item number three the committee priority list any changes for that are everybody kind
of good with holding holding firm with what we have there we need to hold what we got there we see I missed I agree I agree all right yeah I know um committee go on to item number four committee code review
tracking sheet I don't think we're GNA have much change here because quite honestly everything that's under two on the agenda tonight is going to be basically brought back at the April meeting I'd love to wrap that one up on that first meeting in April though get
those two back out yeah which one is that Council uh two and three which are chapters 16 and 17 yeah move those up to council okay yeah we really got to get that one out next I
agree any other comments on that none okay all right we'll open the floor for Citizens comments any other comments all right I will go back to the Das any any closing comments
all right seeing n we'll call this meeting adjourned thank you everyone thank you thank you