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Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=FdGaXXYbAr4

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Come on, Danny boy. >> Where's Glenn? Is he coming? >> Uh, no. Mr. Harrison is out. >> Oh, >> all right. Here we go. >> We're going to call this uh budget workshop to order. Uh if you stand with

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us, we'll do the invocation and pledge of allegiance. Heavenly Father, we thank you Lord for your love for us. We thank you Lord for helping us God to to lead and guide this city and make great decisions Lord that would prosper and and just just cause um

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the strength and peace to be a part of our community. Ask us for this budget Lord God that uh you give wisdom to our staff, give wisdom to our council. would make the the best decisions and and the best direction as we move forward to finance this upcoming fiscal year.

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Father, we ask this all in Jesus name. Amen. >> Amen. >> I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and

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justice for all. [clears throat] >> Alrighty, Mr. Kobe. >> Thank you, mayor. Um, council, the the first section is kind is estimated revenues, uh, general fund and then the comprehensive fee schedule. So, uh, attached to this under B is a schedule

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of all the city fees. One that I do know is missing and need to put in is membership dues for the senior center. So, we will take care of that moving forward. Um but we can go over that a little bit in terms of revenue forecast kind of Danielle put together um some estimates um on our revenues going into

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the next fiscal year based on the data we have a lot of the a number of these particularly when it comes to the taxes um will come out sometime in July um from do especially the property tax which I'm sure we'll get into as well um

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but that'll come out in July the final assessable value which with then we will have the model to be able to type in, you know, different millage rates, things of that nature to really narrow down exactly what that millage rate's going to be and what that revenue will be. So, I put together a little bit of, you know, just some estimate on what I

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thought um that may be. But looking at revenues going into the next fiscal year, we don't see a very large jump in anything. Uh everything is going to it looks to remain pretty steady based on what we have what Danielle's put together on current revenue to date year

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to date um in this fiscal year compared to what we budgeted. Um and so going through through here obviously the only thing we don't know at the moment um for the most part is going to be prior year carry forward. So that's something as we round out department budgets and we bring for particularly a lot of that's

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going to be uh probably grant related at this moment. Um we will bring those prior year carry forwards exactly what that number will be. One thing you're going to notice um big dollar amount the water sewer and gas so far I don't

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expect to change that up or down. I expect to bring it forward at the same dollar amount as last year. So at a minimum no increase to our transfers out of the three utilities departments. Um, other than that, um, when we're looking at revenues, some of the things I know

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we talked about, uh, the council wanted to kind of discuss and have a to look at was, uh, the senior center was one of them. Uh, from a revenues perspective, we budgeted to bring in $17,000 in membership fees. We are currently

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year to date at 16,295. So, with about six months remaining in the or not six months, but three months remaining in the fiscal year, we're roughly, you know, $700 off from what we budgeted. Uh, we did submit to the Walt County Board of County

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Commissioners. Uh, the request that you all were copied on of $12,000 increase in the annual fee they contribute to the city for the operations of the senior center. I've spoken to Mr. Kellenburgger. he is uh prepared to take that through the budget process for us uh and handle that as county goes to

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their workshops. Additionally, uh Susan is working with Ford Definiac on a grant um to help offset some cost uh with uh the senior center. I believe the grant right now is about $18,000 we're going after. And so they're working together

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on that, see if we can offset some operational cost and then also buy new things at the senior center. Yes, sir. We got to say something. >> Okay. Um so the next one uh it was the planning fees and so printed before you

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uh these two sheets with yellow. This is what Chris and Lisa put together. Um currently for the planning department for community development department in terms of planning fees. So um right now uh we have paid engineering final order invoices and let me just do this real

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quick. We've paid $9,919. We've brought in $10,369.84. $450 of that was a credit. Somebody overpaid and they were so generous as to donate that to the city. So that's why we have an increase there. So, at the moment, we are at least dollar for

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dollar getting back those costs. Um, the other sheet you see planning application fees, uh, we've brought in a total today of $19,900. We budgeted, uh, $30,000 in this expense and revenue line. They were a dollar for

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dollar. So, whatever we take in is what we we expend. And so, right now, when it comes to planning review and engineering review fees, we are uh, at least breaking even at a minimum. >> Okay. Fantastic. >> So,

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M. So, Kobe, does that if I remember just off the top of my head from a year ago, what does that represent in terms of general fund savings? I think we were we were still eating what was it $50,000 a year roughly? >> Um,

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>> or was it less than that? >> No, it was less than that. But the the plan review fees were around 1,500 uh and now they're 4,000. So, you know, we were and our in our task force that time were not to exceed 3500. So, you were losing probably anywhere between

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1,500 to $2,000 per plan review that the city the general fund was eating up. Um and so right now we signed task orders and not to exceed 4,000 um that we charge that to the developer in that amount. And then anything above that plan review. So when

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it comes to, you know, mailing notices or anything else extra cost, they are required to pay that as well. And so um that's offset. I'll have to go back and look exactly at the 2025 fiscal year 25 um expenses and see compared to revenues. I have to go pull that back.

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So >> Okay. Thank you. Good work. >> Okay. Um this uh next one I'm going to I guess we'll go through real quick there. There's I want to talk about solid waste a little bit if that's all right mayor in a minute. Yeah. And then I'm sure we're going to get into property taxes.

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So uh kind of some of these highlevel uh revenues. Cemetery particularly, you know, uh the cemetery we budgeted to bring in 35,000 in permit fees. We are yearto date at 29,600. So we're on track for roughly 44,000 in

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permit fees. And then lots sold. We budgeted to sell $40,000 worth. We're year to date at 22750. So that takes us on track for 34,125. So although we are slower on lot sales, we're higher. We're faster on permanent fees. So we're headed to a wash in that

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in the current fiscal year. So we'll monitor that uh for the next fiscal year. >> Toby, just real quick, where are you reading from? because maybe I don't have it in front of me. >> These are revenues that I took off of a sheet that Danielle had provided to me that are a little different than what you see here in front of you. Um,

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>> was that was that worksheet attached to this agenda that I'm looking at because this >> No, it was not. That's what I've got. So, this was not this is what we typically have in our budget from a revenue standpoint. And then Danielle provided to me her working giving us

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information. It's not that I have some here to look at. Correct. >> Just going over because I guess I'm going over the sense to make sure that no one picks up on anything that I don't see that's abnormal that's way out of the the norm from some of these general fund revenues. Um but the worksheet she gave me. I'll show you the worksheet she

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gave me. This is what you gave me. So she went through all of our revenues >> and you just updated the 27 correct work paper. >> Exactly. And then sorry when we're done here will you send that to all of us because I like to work >> through with that particular document

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and then tell us >> with the payroll section >> how up to date that is >> uh because that's you know the majority of >> where a lot of the expenditures are going to come to uh from >> yeah I can send this uh this and I can

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send that sheet expense-wise though majority of that not input yet so we have a number of big departments that have we haven't went around to yet personnel So, I mean, I can share that with the council in terms of numbers because that's that's up to date as of I think last week when the chief and I met >> and that's in that uh 27 budget document.

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>> It will be. Yes. >> Okay. Because that's the one I like to work from. That way I don't have multiples. >> It will be. Thank you. >> Todd, you have something? >> Yes, sir. Um Kobe, do you want me to hold my questions about the the fees until we get to that? >> We can hit them as we go if you have

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something that relates. So, on cemetery, because we're on that that topic, I it's been four years since we adjusted those cemetery rates, and I'm probably going to take some some heat for this, but I think we need to adjust them. We have seen significant uh increase in

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our expenses in the last four years, and we haven't adjusted that rate. And when we adjusted the rate back in 2022, I had a local funeral home director look at me and tell me that even this rate that we're at now was still low compared to what it is in the rest of the panhandle.

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So, I'm not saying that we go out there and um triple it or anything like that, but we certainly need to uh do some adjustments there. [snorts] >> Well, we had a uh at our last board meeting, we had a citizen who used to be on the board who came to

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um make those suggestions and uh never showed up. But uh so uh and of course I've [clears throat] talked to two or three of the the funeral homes and of course obviously they don't like it. But anyway, I was just going to say

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that was going to be covered at our last cemetery board meeting, but that particular gentleman didn't show up. Dan, I'm sorry. Go ahead, Dan. Um so on the um monument installation,

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let's see um excluding slabs in block K2R. If it's a family plot and they're either preparing for the future and putting markers out there and just so that all you got to do is go in there and fill in

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the grave or the the concrete barrier below the rocks has been compromised and it needs some work or something like that. Uh >> you talking about an existing grave? >> Yes. >> Okay. Go ahead.

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um that that falls under family maintenance, doesn't it? They don't need a permit to go out there and improve their own family uh plots, do they? >> I don't know. There's certain level we have to draw the line.

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>> Okay. Well, I can I can spell it out for you. >> Here comes Andrew. >> [clears throat] >> So the the family can do their own work on the plot, but they have to do a permit so that we know that they're out there working. It's free.

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>> So that's the the highlighted blue councilman. So it's uh it's it's zero. Don't cost anything. They still have to fill file a permit with public works, city clerk's office to uh do any of these things here. >> Is there any limits on them at all? >> No. Okay. So, you do uh in order to work

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on your family plot and do some maintenance, you have to come down here to city hall and apply for a permit that does not cost anything. >> Well, you can do it online, too. >> Yeah, >> you can just fill it out online and we'll send you the approval. >> It's just for records. It's to keep track of who is who's messing with the

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lot. >> Let me finish up. Were you finished? I'm good. >> Okay. Go ahead. >> On to that. How long does it take to to issue the permit to the family? >> A day. one day after. >> And how long is it good for? >> Uh, I think it's 60 days.

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>> Okay. >> Some of them 60 days, some of them six months. I'd have to look at see which ones which, but >> Okay. Um, there was a without going into names of companies, um, burial companies or anything like that, they um busted

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the concrete barrier that the rocks go on. for the grave because it was pre-planned ahead of time. They had their markers out there just all they had to do was fill in the date. Um and instead of um

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after the casket was put in the ground and the vault was sealed then um and they filled it up with dirt, they did not reconrete it. So now the weeds are taken over and the family just wants to

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go out there and put the concrete in like it was supposed to be. Break it out real good, put new rocks in, and we need a permit for that. >> Yes, it's a family permit is what it's called. >> Okay. >> Did you have any? >> No, I just wanted to know how long the

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to >> Okay. Okay. >> to issue the permit. >> All right. Back to you. Good thing. >> So, yeah, that's I mean, like I said, that's what we're on. Those two are going to probably wash out. I mean, it is something to watch out for as we move forward as costing go up personnel wise,

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you know, supply-wise. If we don't start seeing a growth in the number of burials or plots sold, we're going to start running into the same issue we were in just a few years ago, making a transfer out of general fund to the cemetery. So, that's something we're going to have to monitor and watch. Um, there's going to become a point where we can't continue

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to cut out of the operations of maintaining the cemetery. we're eventually going to come forward with either an increase in rates um or a transfer from general to cemetery. So, that's something to be mindful of as we move forward. >> I I would just much rather do that consistently versus what we did this

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last time because I mean, we hadn't adjusted it last time, Mr. Mayor, in decades. >> No, no, it's been a long time. Well, as there was one other time and it was [snorts] picky. It was didn't even phase it. But

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but yeah, it's probably been golly 20 years ago. >> Right. Right. So I'd much rather do this every few years. We go up a little bit versus waiting 20 years and then going up, you know, several hundred dollars. >> Okay. We can uh if I want to I think I'm

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sure we can reach out to some of our you know other cities around us and see what they're charging per per plot and see how that kind of compares. >> Yeah. [snorts] All right. Um Christmas reflections and I'm hopping around a little bit but Christmas

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reflections uh this year's uh sales were down expect versus what we expected. We had budgeted uh to do roughly 105,000. We brought in around 80,000. Um I'm going to kind of go into that a second, but another thing we did do this year that we will expand on next year uh is

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bring back carriage rides and then also some vendors. So that brought in some additional revenue there. Uh one of the things and Andrew can speak on I think we've talked about why we see the decrease is really an increase in walkers. It's kind of been has been a large uh thing we have is there's been a lot more walkers especially last year.

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Um, so >> what page are we on? >> I'm just going over I'm just going over numbers right now on the Christmas reflections. No sir, it's not in the comprehensive fee. Just kind of telling you where we're at year to date on Christmas reflections. >> So we're about we we ended about 20,000 less than what we expected. We have

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worked we know now you know where we're at for the rest of the remainder of the fiscal year in terms of the budget. So we're fine there. We've we've dealt with that uh deficit in revenue. Um, but that is something we're noticing is an increase in walkers, which is reducing the revenue for Christmas reflections.

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So, we're working on some creative ideas. Andrew and and JM have some ideas on how to bring more money uh in hopefully through that. So, we'll continue to work on that. But, we did see a decrease this year. >> I think a lot of that was due to we had a lot of we had a a very rainy Christmas

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season. >> Yeah. So, I'll stop there. Mayor, um, in terms of taxes, I guess we can hop back real quick to property tax since that is a thing. Um, you know, this year if it were to go through in November, it would not affect fiscal year 27, it would

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affect fiscal year 28. Um, and then affect then fiscal year 29 and then not knowing what the legislature would do going into 2030 with I think there's a mandate in the referendum, they would have to come up with a plan to continue to phase it out every time. That's my understanding. So, uh, speaking with the

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proper appraisers office, these are some numbers they they provided to me. Um, in as of June 2026, uh, and I'm going to go by bucket. So, $150,000 of taxable value and less 150 to 250, 250 to 500 is what they provided

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to me. So if if this were to be effective today, uh the city would lose approximately 59,458,78 in taxable value. That equates to $327,19 in revenue. Um and at the $150,000 mark,

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if we're at the $250,000 mark, that would be an additional $21,696,733 of taxable value. and that equates to $119,332 in revenue. Um, if you were to go to 500,000, that would be an additional

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$7,79,440 of taxable value, uh, that equates to $38,936. So if it were to be effective today on the 250,000 or less, so our $250,000 exemption, the city would lose $446,351

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in ablon tax revenue. >> Go ahead, Amy. >> Is that at the five and a half mill? >> Yes, it is. >> And is that includes CRA or is that the city's 5% portion? >> This is just the city. No, this is just Avalorum revenue in general. This is

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this is before this is before the split. >> How much does the city's general fund >> retain? >> Out of all of that, how much is it going to impact the city's general fund? >> So, well, that's what I'm saying. So, if you were to go if you just say the 150 in the first year, you're talking

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327,000. I don't know yet because I don't we're not able to get into the Oasis system for trim. I don't know yet what the split is between the city and the CRA because there's so many different factors that make it up. What if you use last year's trim notice >> at 5 and a half% what would that value

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be >> using those new values that he gave you? >> So I'm saying though if you're if you had 150,000 exemption that would equate to a $327,000 loss to Avalon revenue. So that that 327

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is split between the city and the CRA. What I'm saying is I don't know the exact number yet because when you take increased taxable value and you put it into the trim, they bust it between the appreciation of existing infrastructure, new development, the roll back rate, all

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those things going to factor. I don't know that exact number yet. >> So, so the mathematical formula which hasn't changed over prior year, you're saying you can't just >> I don't know it. It's we just it's all electronic now. So, I don't know. You just when you go do the trim now, you literally go in, everything's preset. You punch in the millage rate because

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they already put in your taxable value. >> I thought we had a little worksheet we were using. >> We do. We have one for if we were to reduce the CRA rate. I don't have one for the reduction of the taxable value. >> Okay. >> So that is one I mean as we go forward once we get into July and they let us into the system we'll be able to run

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those scenarios. >> Whose system is it that you're talking? >> It's do it's the Oasis system >> because you're having to bust out that baseear amount from the CRA. That that's where the complication comes in. >> It's all locked. All the all the fields are locked. So you just go in, you put

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the millage in and it it calculates everything. So it changes the roll back and all that. >> Mayor. >> Yeah. >> Is we need we need to discuss what the um

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percentage is going to be that the city gives the CRA. Like right now it's uh the CRA gets 95% of the increased adalorum tax and the city gets 5%. Is that correct? >> Yes. From the base year of 2018. Yes.

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>> Would it be at a city budget meeting or a CR budget meeting? That would be the most appropriate time to bring that up for uh discussion. Or would it be >> a city council meeting? Not a budget meeting. >> At a city council meeting. You can

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discuss it here, but time to actually vote on it is in a city council meeting. >> Okay. So, um having said that, um not for any action, but just to kind of put this idea out into everybody's head so you can be thinking about it and

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nobody's caught off guard. Um, as the city grows, we're going to need a lot of that increased advalorum tax as much as we possibly can in order to keep

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up with our growth. Um, so put that in the back of your head next time we have a city council meeting. I'd like to hear everybody's thoughts on what would be the best way to take care of that problem. Amy,

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>> uh, Mr. Cosen, that's very timesensitive also. So, it's not something that can probably wait because if you recall from prior years, it takes time for council to put together whatever it is and give notice to the county if we're changing. >> Well, then what's the best avenue to

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take care of this? >> Giving you that. >> I have noticed that we put um that we have CRA budget meetings before we have city council meetings. And that's kind of like

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spending. We we obligate taxpayers money to nicities and wants and what the city budget is is services.

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We have to have the services covered. So, what I'm suggesting is we need to have the city budget ahead of the CRA budget so we can make sure we've got all our bases covered.

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Uh, am I communicating this accurately? Do you do you know what I'm trying to say? You need to take care of the city first and then anything left over. Yeah. Let the CRA do their thing.

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So when we schedule our next budget meeting instead of obligating money to the CRA, could we have our next budget meeting focused on the needs of the city? >> So the next two budget meetings will be uh general fund workshops

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>> will be workshops. >> Please make sure we call them. >> There'll be workshops. The first one will be about general funds. The second will be about enterprise funds. I think and when it comes to the CRA particularly, the CRA does however much money the city council gives to the tiff. So the CRA board passes a budget

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prior to the council. That's fine. The CRA is treated the same as a department when it comes to the incorporation of the city's budget. So the CRA could pass one in end of July. The city can come back, council could come back in late August and say we're going to change the TIFF. That just means the board's got to meet CRA board's got to meet correct

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their budget to what they've been given and then resubmit it. Okay. So, the next budget meeting we're going to have is going to be focused on general budget. >> Focus on general funds. >> General funds and um in enterprise. >> First one's general fund operations. The second budget workshop will be

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enterprise funds. >> Two different workshops. Two different days. >> Two different days. >> Gotcha. And do you know when that is? >> It'll be in July. Probably mid July. >> Okay. >> We want to get through today. >> Hi Josh. >> So I got one question for the councilman. The two things that I think

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of as priority for me when it comes to CRA and things that I want to see done is that streets and alleyways downtown and the renovation of the fire department are those nicities and won't wants because every time we talk about this, it's always spoke of as a nicity and a won't. But I want to make clear

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that that's that's the reflection and direction that I want to place emphasis on. So, when we're talking about that, we get some funding from the county through the CRA that if we cut this out, we're gonna be cutting out those contributions as well. Either way, we got to fund this, whether it's on a

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council level or the CRA does it. But I want you to look at that because that's what I'm trying to look at. If I'm looking at it wrong, somebody please set me straight on that. >> Mayor U, Mr. Conurs, >> I'm totally on board with those two

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items. The problem I've got is when we had our last CRA meeting and we had approximately $4 million and then it started getting divvied up on the wants and it wasn't going toward the alleyway. And I suggested let's put a lot of this

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money toward the alleyway. Let's let's get as much as we possibly can so we can move forward on this alleyway instead of putting it all on all these nice things we would like to have, but they fall into the want category. I don't consider the alleyway a want and I don't consider

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our fire department a want, but we had an opportunity for $4 million to go into that alleyway and we kind of blew that. >> So, >> have we cut that $4 million or has the CRA cut that $4 million, Mr. City Manager? >> No. So, the CR's budget isn't final. You

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still got to the board still has to set the budget. I'm not going to go too deep because we're at city council workshop, but you got to the board's got to set it. Um, no. So, you lost me. I had a had a thing there. >> I think I'm getting what you're saying. So, the CRA can can vote on anything

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they want to, but it can be overridden by the city council. >> No. Well, you the CRA has to vote on the CRA has to approve the expenditures for the items that come forward. Just because a program is voted on and

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adequately funded does not necessar I don't want to get too far out there on the window. I' I'd ask you to talk to the executive director of the CRA about some of that offline and he could probably clarify a lot of it for you. The last part of this, the CRA outside

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of projects one, two, or three, whatever it is, still has a mission to meet. The organization, the legal makeup of has a mission to meet. If you don't fund the activities that make up the mission, then you don't need one. You don't have one. That's the whole point in the finding a necessity. That's the whole point of redevelopment plan. So, there

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are things that have to be done for the for the for legitimacy and the livelihood of of the organization. So, those are things that have to be balanced. So, I get it. we want to what you're talking about but there are certain things that have to be fund funded if you're going to keep the agency alive. So that's again we can go

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further in that when the CR has his workshop has his meeting but >> there there's also councilman there's also some benefits to this such as some of the things that they've learned to where you can get grants the CRA can get grants to fund certain projects and the

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city can get grants to s to serve different projects but you really need to sit down and talk with Mr. Townsen offline sometime to learn that part of it. I think for the benefit of all concerned that conversation should be done at a public meeting

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>> but so so that everybody can learn and have the same information >> in the appropriate venue I would say yes but because of the fact of separating and splitting that hair you really want to talk to him about which meeting does this need to come up in if you want to do that. >> Okay. >> Gotcha. So, uh, on the back to the the

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property tax question, any any other questions on that? Again, you know, it it's not effective. If it were to pass, it's not effective in fiscal year 27. It would be effective fiscal year 28. So, you know, yeah, it's good to be thinking about it now. Um, and what we may be doing in the future, but we will not have to budget or deal with that

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directly until fiscal year 28 budget process. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um, another thing on um, revenues as we, you know, deal with some of this and go through this, one of the things I know we all kind of discussed a little bit last year uh, and and want to bring

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up this year is, uh, solid waste garbage. Okay. Um, obviously the first can is covered by the 1 cent sales tax. And then the difference in that 1 cent sales tax from what we collect versus what we spend in terms of operation of knuckle booms and the contract with

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waste management. that difference gets transferred to the general fund, right? And so one of the things uh that I think is worth discussing, it's up to the council is when it comes to commercial cans, regardless of the size, and it comes to every can beyond the first one. So second, third, however many you may

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have residential cans, we pass that cost on dollar for dollar. So it comes from waste management at X amount. We charge customer X amount. There is no uh margin in there, profit margin. And so if we look at it that sanitation or solid

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waste fund as we do water, sewer and gas in the airport, it's a business that that's why it's established the way it's established. So is that something the council would like to look at? Um potentially charging a search charge on commercial and additional residential cans to generate additional revenue.

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>> Right off the top of my head, mayor, I like that idea. The only thing um the balancing act would be um we don't want to go too hard on the mom and pop businesses, >> but the big box businesses, we could

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have a different rate for that. >> Well, I mean the cans, they can the size is the size and then you determine by number. I don't know necessarily want to get into determining this this business's can rate versus this one depending on the size of the business. >> Okay. I think it's across the board charge for

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>> But the big box boxes don't use cans. They use dumpsters. And there's different size. >> I guess when I say cans, I mean dumpster. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Not necessarily. >> Yeah. Not all of them do it. Some of them have regular residential cans. They don't need as much. >> That's right. But you've also got, for

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example, downtown, you've got a uh you've got a a small business owner that has a dumpster that then helps out with Main Street. It helps out with other businesses when when they need it. And I don't think it's fair to just say, "Well, he's got a dumpster. We're going

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to penalize him for it." So, it's it's not cut and dry is what I'm getting at as as far as just a dumpster versus a can >> because we do have we do have very very much small businesses downtown that have dumpsters and they would 100% fall

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within your definition of mom and pop. >> So, when Kobe said, "Is this something the council would like to look into, is this something that we want to look into it or keep it the way it is?" We're already hitting them with a $200 or a 13 cents per square foot tax on on

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non-evalorum assessment and we're going to turn around and gig them on on trash, too. >> Well, then why did you bring it up? Did you run this by sumi before you brought it to the board? [laughter] >> No. Uh, I brought this up because again, we're looking at revenues. Um, we're

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looking at enterprise funds. Um, and so it's an option. The council can either decide to look at it or say no and we move on. Toby, we I know I've brought this up numerous times and I don't know if you and Andrew have talked about it or whatever and made some arrangements, but you know, with our knuckle boom, uh

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that's pretty much free of charge. Yeah. >> Correct. >> Uh that's crazy. Um at the bare minimum, we ought to have them on a pretty strict schedule to where we're not making numerous trips to one location >> and people still just stack it up there

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week after week. Uh we have got to come up with a formula there and and uh and charge anybody that abuses the schedule and um because I I I know that's eating up a lot of personnel time, a lot of vehicle halls and that

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type of thing. >> Uh I I see and I see what they're doing to us out there. They they're mixing debris and garbage and it's just crazy. We we got to we got to u some sort of discipline there, you know. So we we

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instituted a pilot program. We're about two to three weeks into that now. Um in terms of trying to get on a a schedule of that and try to reduce individual call outs, you know, things come and try to help people get on a schedule. People can be reasonably understand we're coming on this day. Um you know, we have

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tracking on the vehicles now for both staff purposes and citizen purposes, right? To make sure we are going to those routes and to work on that. So if we want if that's something the council will look at is uh charges for that andor enforcement charges for that. >> I ask Andrew to well >> Andrew how heavy I mean is that a lot of

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extra time a lot of extra expense [clears throat] >> don't have a whole lot of so typically how we [laughter] >> typically how we try to do that is because I think in the ordinance it's so many cubic feet I think it's like three cubic feet or something cubic yards. So

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basically that's two scoops. >> Yeah. >> So we could go back to doing two scoops. We haven't done that yet because we're trying to get caught up with this schedule which is working very well. Um

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for one to keep trash from sitting beside the road for a week until we can get back out there kind of thing so it doesn't look bad on the city. Um and then people know when they can put it out there. But it is um we can go back to doing just two scoops, two bites a

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spot and then that'll be your three cubic yards. >> Well, you know, you you make that call. I I won't, but I don't think that's where your abuse is coming from is to having more than two scoops. Uh I think your mut is uh the mixture that's going

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out on the side of the road, the timing, you know. >> So the the mixture has it was pretty bad a few months ago. >> Define the fine mixture. >> So that's where they put the limbs and leaves and their junk >> together in the same pile >> in the same pile instead of having it separated. So then when we have to go to

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the dump with it, we have to take it to the junk pile with the limbs and leaves instead of it already being separated. Because as is now, I've got one truck that runs uh junk and one truck that runs limbs and leaves. So, they pick up their area

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so that they're not having to worry about mixing or bypassing somebody's house and them calling in saying, "Hey, they drove by my house." Yeah. The other trucks right behind them. >> And did I see did I hear you say that right now the plan is the plan that's in

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place is working pretty good? >> Yes. So, [clears throat] what I'm hearing is leave it alone. Is that right? >> Well, I'm asking. >> Well, I mean, it's a it's a pilot program because we've never done it this way before. That's kind of why we're going to >> and it seems like >> watch it for two or three months and make sure it

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>> runs as well as we think it is. And if it does, then we'll keep on like that. >> Amy, >> Kobe, I need to go back to the commercial trash sanitation. Okay. So, I'm a commercial business. I get a free can or

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I pay for I'm sorry. I pay in one of my bills >> for that can. What was the option that was just being talked about? >> I I can get a dumpster if I wanted to and you're saying, do I want to pay for that or?

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>> No. No. So, I'm saying is so when it comes to garbage, we start out with uh your residential can. So, every resident in the city is given one can for free because of the 1 cent sales tax, >> right? >> And then if they want a second can or a third can, there is a charge associated with each additional can.

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>> And if you're a business, >> can we get that? >> So, if I wanted two cans, I pay the city for that second can. >> Yes. >> Not the not the not waste management. Correct. Okay. All right. >> Yeah. It all comes So, we build everything partial part. >> Um then the commercial part's the same way. If you are a business or whether

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you're it don't matter who if you're a resident too, it doesn't matter. If you want a can, do the same thing. You call and you get a commercial can. You pay that rate for the commercial can and then we >> commercial can bigger than my residential can. >> It can be. So there so businesses, every parcel in the city is supposed to have

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garbage collection have a can. That is ordinance. That's going to be a part of this. Uh >> yeah, remember on my application for >> so some businesses will take uh we use an example of a car wash. They have a car wash, they have another business right beside one another. Um, one parcel they pay to have a dumpster. The other

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parcel they pay to have a can, but we have a commercial can rate. So like your can at your house for a commercial it is much more for just the can. But it is way cheaper than a dumpster because they have to have garbage on the active parcel. >> But but that's their choice. They have

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to pick one when they did their application just like I did for my business. I >> correct >> said whatever and I got X for a price. >> Y >> and that's build to me every month. >> Yeah. Waste management picks it up. They send us the bills. We pay Waste

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Management and we turn we build a customer. >> Now what was the option? >> Yep. >> What was it that >> what I'm saying is >> out there to raise more money. >> What I'm saying is that any commercial can dumpster doesn't matter in any can beyond the first one for residential we

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charge dollar for dollar. we pass through. So, waste management charges us No, we don't make no money. >> So, if if Waste Management charges us $6 for that second residential can, we charge customers $6 for that second residential can. >> Okay. >> That's that's what I was >> So, what you're suggesting is we should

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increase the price for this additional >> I'm just I'm just asking if that's something y'all want me y'all want us to look at. >> How much money do we earn? How much do we generate right now? Uh this year we budgeted we estimated to collect $880,000 in that rent in that portion of

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commercial and second beyond cans. 880,000 was the estimate. >> And how much have we collected? I mean are we going to collect more or less on target? >> We're halfway through the year so we should have half of it >> months. Well >> well I know I met with Danielle the

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other day particularly on sanitation. Um we based on first she was a little worried but then she went back and looked at the last few years in terms of trends our our sales tax so particularly on sales tax is slower obviously in the winter time and it picks up during the summertime sales tax would drive

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sanitation fund but in terms of um this one we call physical um they call it physical inventory. Let me go find real quick. >> Yeah I want is it separated? I mean, can you tell? Okay. The line item.

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>> So, this would be >> penalties, sales tax. So, be this one uh physical inventory. So, right now we are at $629,000. >> And is that

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>> that's as of June 9th? That's as of June 9th. Well, the posting the earliest the latest posting is 520 26. That means that's our May that's our May invoice from waste management. >> How much? >> 629,000. >> 629.

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>> And you estimated 880. >> 880. [clears throat] >> And that was through May. >> Yes. Todd, >> I forgot what I was going to say. [laughter] I I I think we need I think we need to be very very careful. Again, we're we're

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looking at an an advorum non-avalorm assessment on every business downtown of at least 13 cents a square foot to turn around and up their garbage rate. >> That's that's what I was going to say. Uh I think we need we need to think long and hard about that. But I do, Mr. Mr. Mayor, I do agree with you and support

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your train of thought and we need to look at the overages on some of this yard debris pickup and that is something that has been discussed for years is some sort of mechanism that you get you get three cubic yards and anything above and

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beyond that is some sort of fee. I have witnessed it in my neighborhood where people have a have a business, a commercial business, and then they go unload their truck of their commercial trash from parts that they've replaced on commercial businesses, and then we

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come around and pick that up like like it's ours for free. And I I fundamentally disagree with that. To me, that's wrong. And the same thing applies when when someone's moving out. had someone in the neighborhood over there um that moved

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out and they they decided they weren't keeping beds and all this other stuff and they piled it up by the road and Andrew, your guys came by within a few days and it was gone. >> And I I make trips to the dump on a regular basis. I don't put stuff out by the road.

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>> I'm I get it either borrow a trailer from from somebody or I load it up in the back of my truck and I go to the go to the dump >> and dump it myself >> most of the time, 99% of the time. Um, I agree with you. I think that we ought to look at some sort of charge mechanism when it's above and beyond just like we

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do with the commercial cans. You know, you get you get your first can >> and if it's above and beyond that, you get a charge. So, I really think we ought to look at look at something like that. >> On that subject, Kobe, I know that this was years ago whenever I was still running my office. I was paying about 40

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or maybe even 50% less for a county dumpster than a city dumpster. I don't know what the comparisons are today, but I'd hate to think we're still doing that. >> Well, we'd have to go to the county. I mean, I'm I'm just assuming volume

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>> because I was, you know, I was on the borderline and I annexed into the city and uh first thing the city said, "Well, you can't sell any more vehicles out there." Well, thank you. And your garbage bill is going way up. Well, thank you. You know, I'm so glad to be

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in the city, [laughter] you know, Amy. >> Um, I think that we're mixing apples and oranges when we're talking here because whatever is put out on the street and the knuckle boom comes down, that's not what we're talking about to raise these rates or whatever. So, I kind of want to

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separate that uh for a minute. But, uh, also, I thought we're talking about additional cans. you know, should we charge a rate? So, to me, it's not the same as 13 cents a commercial building we're going to do for this fire

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assessment. To me, again, it's apples and oranges. We're not talking about the same things. Are we not talking about increasing? You're saying increase their garbage rate. We're not saying increase their garbage rate. We're saying >> yes, he is. >> Uh, do you want to pay for an additional

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do we want to increase the rate of the can or the dumpster? Correct. >> Mhm. Okay, >> that's that's in raising the rate on them. [laughter] >> Yeah. So, right now the rate that people pay for the for a for a bit for a commercial dumpster or can or any can

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beyond the first one as a resident, we take whatever waste management charges us, we turn we charge the customer, >> right? >> There's no there's no there's no margin on it is what I'm getting at. >> Okay. Mhm. >> And that's where I'm that's where I'm

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saying you're going to you're going to charge them an non-abalorum assessment and then you're going to turn around and say, "Hey, by the way, your trash is now instead of it being $30 a month, your trash is now $50 a month." >> Well, it doesn't have to be that extreme, but I mean, >> it's an example. We're all I'm pointing

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out is that we're constantly we're we're taxing them here. We're tax them here. We're tax the economic life of the what's happening in the world is going. We can't just do everything for free. We can't, you know, as much as we would like to do that. >> So, we're going to be a bunch of tax and spend Democrats.

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>> I'm sorry. >> So, we're going to be a bunch of tax and spend Democrats. >> I'm not going to have that kind of conversation. I'm trying to come up with solutions and I'm trying to understand the problem at hand for the budget cycle that we're going to. And I didn't mean

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for us to stay all this time on this particular issue, but we keep talking around the room. So, I just I needed to gain an understanding of what it is that we're charging and generating so I understand, you know, is that even going

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to raise a significant amount that's going to matter to the discussion. >> Josh, >> thank you, Mr. Mayor. For for me, um this discussion is very simple. I I'm not in favor of raising the rates for additional cans or additional dumpsters.

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um a lot of because of some of what councilman beer bomb said a minute ago there's we're our citizens already pay an additional avalorum above other count of the residents throughout the county obviously there's a reason why we have additional or enhanced services or

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additional services so that that's where the additional costs come from as to why we have to collect the assessment um in addition to that I think the knuckle boom is one of the things that actually helps offset that to most of our citizens Um, they love that knuckle bone. I can see where if people are

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abusing it, then we need to assess differently with them. I don't know how how you would do it, whether it be code or or what we're going to do there, but and I'm in agreement with less less runs throughout the week. I mean, if you do that run like you're doing now where I'm

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seeing them on the same day for sure as my collection date, I know to have everything out by the road for collection day and I'm not going to run into issues there. I don't think many of your HOAs are going to have problems with that either. So, um, that's just where I stand on it. >> Mr. Mayor, can I clarify something he

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said? >> Go ahead. >> Uh, what were you saying about the additional assessment? Are you talking about the fire assessment ready to do? I don't understand. >> I'm talking about Avalorum. You pay one avalorum bill to the county already. You pay an additional Avalorum tax bill to the city as well. So, I'm talking about

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that. >> You just mean the the variance in the >> I'm just talking about one bill. So I don't understand what >> you don't see where it goes the city county on that bill and that's okay. So you're just >> Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. That's the services

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>> in terms of the knuckle boom enforcement. So we've done a couple this year so far when it come to enforcement knuckle booms guys talked about that last year a little bit especially on egregious cases where someone's putting out you know things that blatantly are not supposed to be there or they've piled well beyond size. So we've done

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two or three of those so far. Um I know one they got cleaned up pretty well pretty quickly. Um so if that's something council wants us to look at and they're there. Um it depends on how aggressive we want to get with that and then that's going to we're going to determine okay is one person got enough is that enough for one person or we have

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to look at bringing additional code enforcement to be able to enforce that. So it's up to the council how aggressive you want us to be on on those issues. >> Amy, >> how much how much does it cost to operate the knuckle boom on an annual basis?

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Where we at here? >> We just have the one truck, correct? >> No, [clears throat] we have we have three. We have three trucks. We run two two and one. So, we run two three days a week and one two days a week. >> Okay. >> So, terms of personnel 178,000 >> the whole

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>> and in terms of 176 and then in terms of operating another 46,000. So, you're looking >> that is just knuckleboom operations. 176 plus 46. So about $220,000 >> and that does not include any sort of

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syncing fund to cover the replacement of that truck. Correct. >> Not yet. Understand what's going on. Say it again. >> So between personnel and operating cost is about 220,000 to run the knuckle boom trucks annually. And the councilman saying there isn't a syncing fund. That's correct. At the moment we do not

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have a syncing fund or a reserve account set aside for the truck replacement actively. There is I believe there's roughly um I'll double check with Danielle 230 $240,000 still in uh the old syncing fund or reserve fund. We

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have we are not currently putting back at the moment though. So that's something we will need to consider going into this fiscal year. >> And how much how many full-time equivalents? >> Three is that? >> So that's three people at 220 a year. >> Well, three people to run that operation.

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>> Three people at 176 is the cost. And then in terms of operating, so maintenance, insurance, fuel, all that is another 46,000, >> right? But if we wanted to recoup and not do this for free, which is what I'm hearing,

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>> we would need to offset $220,000 >> more. >> If you want to break even, yeah, just to break even. 220 give or take. >> But that doesn't replace the trucks is what I'm getting at. And how much are the trucks a piece? >> Uh, the last one, I think the last one we did was right at 250. And how long do

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they last? >> Uh >> about five years. >> Five to seven years. >> Five years from from what I've been told in the past that five year they're repairing them every other day. So we could maybe get seven out of them if they're kind of like a standby. So

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you're talking every five years you've got to spend $300,000 to replace those two trucks and then move one of those back to reserve. So that needs to be factored into the $220,000 a year as well. So, it's not just 220, it's 220 plus the

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replacement cost of the truck. >> That's why I want to understand what what's it cost to do this because here we're talking about do we want to charge or you know what are we going to do to raise revenues and we need to. >> Um, mayor, go ahead.

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>> So, Amy, you're the numbers girl. Tell me if this makes sense. If we reduce the increased adalorum tax from 95%

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to 5% uh to um what is the minimum 55% >> 50% if we reduced it from 95 to 50 is it reasonable to believe that these shortfalls that we're discussing now would be made up

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>> well this is here's my concern uh the knuckle Boom is in a >> enterprise fund >> in an enterprise fund. So >> you wouldn't you wouldn't go backwards. >> They're supposed to make money >> to support you know they're supposed to charge for their services fees for

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services. So no it's that again that's to me I wouldn't that that wouldn't be used for this operation. Okay, >> Don >> Kobe, do we know how much when when we take a full load of either

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yard debris or or trash um household goods? Do we know is that basically taken out of the the overall number that they calculate at the end of the year to then determine how much to give back to us?

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>> No. No, we don't know it or no, it's not calculated. >> It's not calculated in there. The amount we pay to the county every year is based off of um it's based off of two part. It's based off of our percentage of sales tax collected in that fiscal year

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in the whole county. And then they'll take and they will credit us what we pay Waste Management. So what we what Waste Management charges us for our first can. They credit that to that percentage calculation and that determines how much we have left to either owe them for the fiscal year.

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>> So we we could we could haul out there five million pounds worth of yard debris and there would be no penalty on it. >> No, we only receive tickets. We do not receive invoices because a part of the interlocal agreement is no dumping fees. So there's no dumping fees associated. Obviously we can't dump certain things, tires,

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hazardous material, things of that nature. Um but they do not charge us. There's no dumping fees, >> mayor. >> Yeah. >> Until such time that we can decide where to go on this in the meantime,

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Andrew's got a pilot program. That sounds like it's going in the right direction. Let him take it and run with it. And as far as having the piles that are mixed with yard debris, and junk uh that's causing time, labor, and

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expense on the city. What other cities do is when that happens, a supervisor pays a visit to the homeowner and explains what the situation is and says tells them, "We

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cannot pick it up like this and we're going to give you the opportunity to separate it and the next time we come by, we'll pick up your yard debris and then we'll pick up your junk." And that's how it's handled and it's

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documented. And if they do it a second time, then that's when code enforcement gets involved. >> So there's a solution to this. Now, it's easy to enact

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and already got the ball rolling. We could add that little bit in there about customer education and it's their responsibility to separate it on the first time and if they do it a second time, hit them with a fine.

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>> And then in the meantime, y'all work out what you think is fair so that the city doesn't go in the hole on what we're doing. And if you think we've beat this dog enough is you want to go to the next topic.

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>> So one of the things we were doing Andrew are we are we still doing the um the pamphlet thing? >> So one of the things we instituted about I guess a year and a half two years ago now uh and the guys still do it is we get basically like door hangers essentially. Um they're I think they're blue. They were blue maybe different

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color now. >> Yeah. And so, um, they have it on there and the guys will mark, okay, why they didn't pick up too much mix and they'll sit that on the pile. So, hopefully the the owner would see that and go read it and determine figure out, okay, they're not picking up for this reason. So, that's something we currently do, but we

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can look into the next step of what you're talking about. That would be a little more documentation and yeah, if you get another one, you got to code enforcement. >> Okay. >> So, okay. >> All right. Go ahead and move on there. any uh any other questions about general

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fund revenue or uh the fee schedule? So, like I said, we we attached all the fees we have currently. Of course, a number of these will update naturally, particularly and I know we're more on general fund now, but um in general, uh particularly, you know, utilities will

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increase when I when the CPI is added in. Um everything else is pretty standard. So, we updated the airport rates this past year. Uh the cemetery rates have been the same for a while. code enforcement. Uh we have something coming before y'all, I believe. Is this it, Chris? It's coming before soon.

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These these fees here or No. >> Yes. >> Yes. So, that's coming board of council soon. Facility rentals have been the same for a while. Um community development, we updated those last year. The business tax receipt, that is something chapter 12. It should be coming before the council before

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long. And then like I said, utilities will naturally increase based on CPI which is governed by the resolution council passed in 2019. So that'll occur um somewhere in July or August. Those rates will be updated and they'll be effective October one.

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>> Mayor. >> Yeah. Go ahead, Amy. >> Uh Kobe, general fund revenues and general year to date, where are we compared to what we guesstimated? And I'm going to assume that this is through May again. >> One second.

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[clears throat] Obviously, you know, a large portion of it is grants. So, we haven't expended some of those grants. We haven't received that revenue back either. I mean, didn't you just have a little >> Yeah, but it's not tallied up into whole

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amounts. So, as of March 31st, so what would have been roughly six months through the fiscal year? Um, revenues, we are at 4.9 million. Expenses, we're at 5.6 million. >> I only want to stay on revenues for a minute, please. 4.9 million. What did we

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budget >> in terms of total for the >> That's here to date, right? Correct. Through March 31st. So, that includes all of March revenues. Correct. Let me go to my sheet here. So, in terms of revenue for the general

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fund, total was around 14 million give or take. I believe 14,728,000 was. >> So, for six months, we're going to have to collect $10 million. >> Well, again, a large portion of that is one grants and two transfers. So, a

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number of the transfers have not occurred yet out of uh water, sewer, and gas. Okay. >> And san and sanitation. >> Okay. Can you Okay. So, the 14 million is the variance right now. And how much were the two transfers? >> No. 14 million728 is what we budgeted as

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general fund revenue for fiscal year 26. And then at the moment, as of March 31st? >> Yeah. 4.9. >> We're at 4.9 million. So, you're at a a difference of >> Sorry, 10 million. Yeah. I'm sorry >> I didn't say that. So, how much were the two transfers of that 14 million that

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you estimated? Well, of the trans the transfers in terms of utilities equals 2.7 million. >> 2.7 >> and then the sanitation or sales tax transfer would be 1.6 million. >> And what was the third component that you said we did? >> Grants.

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>> And how much was that? >> There's our grants here. General government, >> have we been? >> 1.1 million. >> Huh? >> How much? >> 1.1. >> Largest one being the Twin Lakes Drive. And of course, we haven't started that yet. So those are construction funds. So

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>> So that's 5 mil. So that means we're 5 million difference than what we estimated. Is that correct? >> Basically. >> Yeah. I mean you still So again, in terms of general fund revenue, you got the property taxes, which are probably mostly in by now at this point, you've

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got sales tax, gas tax, uh utility service, electric, water, and gas taxes. You've got communication service tax. So there's a number of them that still have to occur over the next few months that we may not receive yet. Plus the >> pre-Marchch or after?

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>> Yeah, that hasn't happened yet for the most part. >> After March, >> you're just talking about the next six months. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You're not saying prior to March. >> No, I'm saying from here on. There's still a good portion of this and still needs to be collected. >> So, oh, you're saying there's you're still you're missing about 5 million or so.

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>> I got I can Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of taxes that still haven't Yeah, I understand. >> Yeah. There's a lot of taxes that still have not came in yet. >> Yeah. So what percent is coming out of water and sewer? >> Uh

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>> he said his two transfers were 2.7 and 1.6 was I think he said sanitation >> sanitation. So the sum the sum of utility transfers water sewer gas is 2 million757,675. And again, if you were to put that

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directly into general fund, which is, you know, 14 million is change. Again, I'm not, you got to factor in grants and everything else. >> I have one followup question, Kobe, >> because my concern is, >> so those transfers haven't happened. So,

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does the general fund have that much cash on hand that you can float all these? What was the amount of the expenditures you had year to date on your little >> Oh, uh, 5.6. Some of that's prior carry for too. Now, a lot of some of this is prior carry for

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which cash on hand you which just means you're still using the general fund cash whatever and and we've gotten that down to you're pretty much budgeting everything that we have. >> No, no, no. So, that was that was the carry forward. We cut that out. So, we do not we have carry forward dollars

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specifically. So, in terms of we had monies last year that we budget and didn't spend that we brought forward. We know we know exactly what that dollar amount is. So what my question was [snorts] is if you

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project based on current numbers for the next six months of this year of this calendar year what's the percentage that we are transferring taken out of

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water and sewer to go to general funds. We plan to take everything we budgeted >> which >> I'm about >> I'm working on a percentage number. >> And the reason I'm asking a percentage is because we spent like three hours

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last year going over uh when you gave us this briefing and and Kobe was trying to get the transfers out of water and sewer down to 10%. And to my surprise, Todd, you wanted it down to 0%.

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>> Yes, sir. >> Now, was all that just talk for nothing or we making progress in that direction? >> So, with the amount we trans we're expected to transfer 2.7 million, if you divide that into what the general fund

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revenue estimate was of 147, that's 18.72%. >> Is what we're drawing. you can. So 18% of our general fund revenue is transfer from water, sewer, and gas. >> So we're way out of line. >> Yeah. If you had%. Yeah.

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>> So what I what I'm saying is right now at this moment going into fiscal year 27, we have said I I have council may may change his mind one way or the other that we are taking exactly what we budget in transfers in fiscal year 26 and we're going to do the same exact thing in fiscal year 27 at the moment.

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not going up, >> but we're not going to go down either. Not at the moment. >> So, in other words, everything we talked about last year on trying to keep the money in water sewer for the expansion of infrastructure >> cannot be done because we don't have other sources to pay the bills as we

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currently have obligations. >> Correct. >> And then you're going to watch some of that revenue evaporate before our own eyes whenever November comes around, >> which will put us in the next budget cycle. Mhm. >> It's not going to hit us this time, but

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it is going to hit in 202. >> The same time next year, we're going to be having a conversation. We're going to know how much revenues we really lost and you know, where are we going to make up all these fall holes, gaps, correct? >> If there are any. >> Correct.

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And keep in mind, we just got presented a couple months ago a paving plan. And for 2028, that paving plan was half a million dollars. So, if we want to do that h that paving plan, we've got to find another half million dollars.

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>> No. >> So, we got to prioritize where what we're going to do. >> The first year, the first year of the paving plan, um, I'll give Danielle. I believe there's $500 to $530,000 in a account that was local option gas tax money that had been accumulated. U but

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after the first year when that's expended there is there's no more money going into that account. >> Right. >> So Andrew and I are working on trying to figure out a solution for that. But we're going to bring forward in 2028 how to do it. So one way or another. So, the

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opportunity exists for us to revisit that $4 million that went from the city to the CRA. Are we going to be able to revisit that? >> The city council can. Yes. >> Okay. >> Well, you're Are you saying what's going in the future or what already has?

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>> Well, we've budgeted given the CRA approximately $4 million of the taxpayers money. >> No, no, no. So uh we budgeted last last year the city contributed to the trust fund in the amount of 1.1 million. >> Okay. So that sheet that you handed out

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>> that was that's the balance of the trust fund. That is not how much we annually contribute. >> Okay. So the so the CRA's got that much money in their trust fund >> roughly right now 3.4 million or >> does the city have the authority to recoup any of that? >> No. >> No. >> So once it's gone it's gone. >> Correct.

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>> We can never get that back. >> Correct. >> Correct. But you can use the CRA to accomplish things that you would generally pull from the general fund. >> So it's the same as there's no need to go shoot it in the head. >> So we can we can replace asbestous pipes

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with that money. >> No. >> Can we get can we get sidewalks? >> They have to be the projects that are inside of the plant. >> Couple of the asbesus pipes. you can contribute [clears throat] part to that project if it's part of your paving project, your undergrounding of utilities. You know that the cost of

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replacing those best pipes when they look at that at CRA level is not necessarily the cost of the pipe that goes in the ground. It's the infrastructure of opening up the ground, getting the site work done, getting it prepared. Um, as part of that is when you're going to do your current

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asbestous pipe removal. Well, if you're doing that as part of that, you're going to save that cost. the city's got to come put the pipe in. But so if it's in alleyways or areas where you're already doing beautifification projects, sure you can. You just can't do the entire project with the money. It's a lot like

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impact fees. It can pay for a portion of some city infrastructure, pay for all of some infrastructure or can pay for none. But it just depends on what the use is. >> Can you build sidewalks around west of uh in the west end? Yes, CRA plan

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multiple communities >> and we can put uh street lights down there so it's not so dark at night. >> That's absolutely part of the plan. >> You really need to talk to Mr. Towns and offline about a lot of this stuff. Seriously, >> I need education on this and so does the

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public. So, I think this is the best place to discuss it, but that's just me. >> Okay. Go ahead, Kobe. >> Okay. Any more questions on any anything revenue related before we move into capital improvements? Okay. All right. [gasps]

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So, um kind of going just want to go over our current capital improvement plan, talk about a little bit of the status of uh existing projects, other things we've done in this fiscal year that may not be capital improvement list, but equipment and nonCIP and then then talk about some future projects to

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be aware of, things that we'll be considering moving forward. understand we will not make a formal changes or re or adopt updates to the to the project list or the CIP until probably August or September. Um but so going through our CIP, the library is complete. So that

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will come off this year. Um we need to discuss city hall and we'll we'll circle back around to that one. Um the police department headquarters is currently inactive. The Shiitaka building second hall is current. I stopped there this morning. I come in and so they've made some good progress there. Um exterior

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repairs are currently inactive at the moment. I'm working on the bid documents for that. Um pickle ball courts inactive. Twin Lakes Drive servicing is active. As you know, we're moving into design of water gas and then doing core samples on the base. Mayor,

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>> go ahead. >> Kobe, can you go back up to F3? I thought that the council as a whole that we already talked about that and I thought that was in the budget this year >> it Okay. So why is it inactive? >> Nothing's been done.

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>> Is that by choice? >> I'm not sure. >> No, we're actually waiting for school to start back for Washington Texas out for the summer get their crafting school with that project. We can blow $80,000 [clears throat] today and hire it out source to whatever engineering

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firm we want, but to try to capitalize on as much money as we don't have, you know, yeah, it's taking a little bit longer than than just going blowing 80,000 say, "Hey, do this for us." And then we got a sheet of paper that says, "Hey, this what you should do." >> So, you're going to use labor from the

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>> we're going to use the classroom >> to do the blueprints and all that instead of pay. >> Okay. I just didn't understand why it said inactive. So, okay. Thank you. because there's currently nothing happening. So when we start moving, but a lot of these are inact because we're not moving yet. Once we get to moving on, they'll change.

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>> But the money's set aside and it's budgeted and >> if they wanted to make some movement, they could. Yes. >> I when I see inactive, I just think, okay, what if >> Okay. Thank you. >> Um uh Lake View Drive, that one uh you

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know, inactive, we will revisit some of these going through this year based on the uh plan that we the council adopted. We'll be adding those projects in. uh reconnecting communities uh and streets. We we completed streets condition assessment. So that's incorrect. I was thinking that was safe streets for all.

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Reconnect communities. Um we're still working with Liberty and US DOT. They are very slow. US DOT is very slow. So we're still working through that. Um permanent outflow inactive. North 20th Street sidewalk is currently inactive.

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We apply for the grant not awarded. >> Hold on. Go ahead. Mr. Mayor, I know it's probably gonna upset you, but I I think we ought to pull that permanent outflow off the >> Well, how about that? It's gonna be somebody's problem. It won't be ours. >> What I mean by that, it won't be in the

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next five or 10 years. >> I I think that we should pull SD1, which is the lake flow permanent out Lake Definia permanent outflow. I think we ought to pull that off the CIP. >> The permanent outflow of Lake Definia. >> Yeah. In other words, u you know, if you

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weren't here, you just don't It's like >> he was here >> trying to tell you how to have a baby. I can't do that. >> Okay. What do you mean when I wasn't here? >> When the lake was uh about >> right now, it's probably about 10 ft higher than it is right now. And it was out over the playgrounds.

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>> I was here. >> Okay. It was out way out over the sidewalks. This started in 2010, went all the way in 201. It was horrible. >> I saw it. >> You couldn't walk around the lake down there. >> Okay. So, what's the point? >> We're taking it. We were going to fix

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that, but we're not. We're going to take it off the list. >> Okay. >> Because we hadn't had a problem with it for 10 almost 10 years. >> Councilman Inis spoke about this one time and said that he remembers as a as a young boy having

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>> he wasn't here as a young boy, but I've been here a lot longer than he has. Go ahead. Councilman Inennis had spoken about how he used to sit on the the stoop on the backside of the Presbyterian Church and at one point the lake was all the way up to the stoop at the Presbyterian Church.

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>> My point is the lake goes up and goes down and I think we ought to just let it be and remove that from the remove this from the uh the CIP. >> It's not going to hurt my feelings. This is all go down in history. Go ahead.

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>> Is the money set aside for that? Is that in the budget in the current No. >> Okay. All right. All right. H how about the next one? 20th Street, that 700,000. Is that in the current budget? >> No. >> If if you don't see numbers in these two columns right here, encumbered or secured. So encumbered, secured, or

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prior, then >> did we approve it? But didn't we as a group approve? >> We we we submitted [snorts] >> only just to put >> we submitted a grant application. We were not awarded >> and the county has already done their portion from Walton Road to >> ECTC. >> Okay. Mhm.

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>> On which side? North or south? >> I don't remember. >> East side technically. >> Or east side. Okay. >> Uh >> we do have the design. So, Walton County did give us the design. So, we do have that. >> And how long is that good for until we do the next phase? Mhm. >> No, they're always good.

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>> So, 10 years from now, if we get a windfall and >> Yeah. I mean, unless for some reason some some more developments come along uh that section of the street that we have to, you know, alter something for power poles or existing sidewalks, but >> there is additional housing going on that >> currently. Yes.

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>> Is that going to impact [snorts] this? >> It may reduce it if they put in I'd have to ask Chris Wallace. I think uh I'd have to ask Chris about if they're putting sidewalks or not. If they are, it would just reduce scope. >> Okay. So, it's just on our CIP. We've not budgeted anything. We've not

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>> No. And we don't plan on doing that in >> no >> next year. >> No grants. >> Are the sidewalks on North uh 20th >> from 90 on? Has that been completed? >> That's what that's what this is. >> That's what this would be. >> So are we going to

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you want to take that off? >> Nope. >> You want to leave it on and get it finished? >> Want to leave it on? We want to try to find funding for it. >> Okay. And it's Was there Was the county involved in this at all? >> Yes. So the county designed the entire road. They went ahead and did the

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construction from Walton Road to ECTC and then they gave us the design plans from ECTC to 90. >> So it's on us to finish the sidewalk. >> Correct. >> And we don't have the funds. >> Correct. >> Yep. >> Yeah. And you know, while you're on that subject, you have seen the the building

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is going on out on 20th, right? Right. Right. Now, >> tremendous amount of growth out there right now. >> The apartments >> and there's another one that just visited my office last week. that's been trying to get out there. I don't think he's got probably less than 50 homes, but um the apartments out there a little

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less than 90. >> Mhm. >> And then there is several homes across the street. I don't know how many that's going to be. And then this is all on 20. >> And now there's another guy that's want to put I think 46 or seven lots. >> Is that the senior the senior one that came to us a while back?

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>> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yep. That's him. >> Okay. So, I mean, it's going [laughter] to have a lot of activity on that strip >> strip of street. >> So, is this something the CRA could do is finish that sidewalk? >> Possibly. >> Mhm.

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>> There's funding. >> We had it one time almost done with what was it called? The L program, Clay, >> and we and when we had all that trouble with our uh >> they they pulled it from us.

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Yeah. >> All right. Um going into the airport, um obviously the runway expansion widening project that is current hanger development is current. We are working with we we provided updates to all the

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agencies. We got the extension from DOT. As soon as we uh get a little more information back from our engineers, we'll be bidding out for design again on that. Get that moving forward again. Uh the apron expansion as you all approved 90% the other day. So that's currently active. Um and then the three inactives

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are the commercial hanger adjacent to the terminal the terminal development phase two which is you know additional parking lot additional fuel farm that would complement the apron expansion project and then east t hanger apron reconstruction. So that is the reconstruction of the apron around the

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existing tea hangers that are right beside the old FBO. getting into water uh the water master plan that is currently active. Um then we get into the meter replacement and register replacement. So we have to date purchased all 500 meters that we

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budgeted for. It is 273. We've purchased a thousand of the registers of which we budgeted almost 2,000. We have replaced to date 308 registers and staff expects to begin in July with the replacement of the meter bases. and interject.

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>> Can you tell me what the estimated life of those meters are? So, we're spending $3.2 million now. When when do we when would we need to kind of budget to replace those? Are those 20-year meters? Are those 10ear meters? What are they? >> I think we're doing on a 10ear life. Uh

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so, we could the goal was to try and replace within a 5year period, five years of no replacement and then go and start again on the 10th year with the oldest in five more years. That was the That's the plan. So they're 10 year. >> Yeah. Okay.

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>> Okay. Okay. >> Um AC water main project again that's in currently in design. Uh and like we said they're they're taking out Twin Lakes Drive ahead of time and going designing that now so we can move forward with that. Uh County Road 280B the water and sewer ones. Those are complete. You all

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will see on our next meeting the final invoice and retaining to close that project out. 28B uh Hill Street that's we've paused that for now um to focus on on Hugh Adams Road that we discussed at our last meeting. The sewer master plan

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u we are close to being finished with that with anchor. The lift station pumps and panels we have to date we have replaced five pumps. We've ordered six. We're waiting for six more

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to arrive. We've replaced three panels and we've ordered six. So, we're waiting for six of those to arrive. So, we're moving forward with pumps panels at all the lift stations, getting those replaced and up to date. Dod. >> So, I know we we've kind of talked around this a lot in various meetings,

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but should should we put on the CIP some of these um wet wells for some of these lift stations that we know are going to have to be deepened and replaced and rehabbed because they're going to be significant expenses. Yeah. So, we expect the sewer master plan to identify

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a number of those already that are pretty deficient that like Kyle spoke about and then we'll take those out of the master plans, but water and sewer will be adding probably a good bit of projects on here within the next year or so. >> Okay. I think Amy has >> Go ahead, Amy. >> Uh Kobe,

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>> scroll back up to that 150,000. >> One of your columns says secured. So, if you've already encumbered, if you already encumbered the money, which to me just means you set it aside by purchase order, but I just heard you say you've already received them. You've already replaced them. What does that

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column represent then? >> Well, I mean, this is >> secured versus prior versus >> I think secured would be more for grants. >> Yeah, that's more for grants. So, the encumbered just means that we budgeted I'd use it in the sense that we budgeted that this fiscal year. We budgeted $150,000 in fiscal year 26.

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>> Okay. And so just for clarification, the year secured column just represents for your grants if you had a piece. >> Yes. >> And then the prior year just means Okay. So that just what we would have spent in the prior year. Yeah. Or what you encumbered in a prior year.

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>> What we would have spent in prior years. >> Okay. >> Yep. >> Okay. Question. >> Scroll back down so I can see that. What's so Oh. Uh [snorts] what's SOF? Uh >> funding source

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>> SCF. Oh, sewer capacity fees. >> So is what? >> SCF. Sewer capacity fees. >> Oh, I'm sorry. Oh. Oh, sorry. >> Okay. >> Yeah. SCF sewer capacity. Okay. >> Yeah. I I This document doesn't have the

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abbreviations, but the actual CIP like plan that you adopted, I put all the abbreviations in there. So, >> Okay. My fault. All right. So if something's on the CIP, the capital improvement plan, the CRA can't

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touch it. Correct. >> There's a 5year waiting window. >> And if we do take it off the CIP, then we've got a fiveyear waiting list until the CRA can pick it up. >> That's probably conversation we're going to have we need to have at our CRA meeting. um particularly because based

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on the training we got last week and at the end of the day we take Mr. Atinson's opinion. That's my stance on it. Um Mr. Atinson's opinion differ from the FRA attorney's opinion. So that's something we need to have a conversation about. But I think I would agree probably what he's going to tell you. I would say you need to go what our city attorney

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recommends to the board. So at the moment stance is three years from the removal of the CIP. Correct. >> Correct. >> Yeah. So that's what we work off of. So, we just took the sidewalks off the CIP. >> We did not remove it.

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>> We're just talking about it right now. We won't formally remove or adopt an update to the CIP until probably August or September. >> We do a lot of talking about [laughter] >> I'm sorry. I couldn't help it. um into uh sewer underground

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infrastructure the force main replacement we are about 60% through design on that um 280B force main again that is complete lift station one force main you all approve the task order so we will begin design on that manhole repair maintenance you know we uh we

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forgone that this year to move money around particularly to purchase the lift station at or the bypass pump at lift station number nine uh M here spray field. Oh, that'll be on non CFIP projects getting a natural gas the meters

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registers and systems upgrade. We received one bid last week that will be before the council at our next council meeting to award that so we can move forward with getting that system upgraded for our gas registers and meter reading. And then Veterans Lodge, Highway 1087 extension and highway 331

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extension are inactive. Those are projects we identified uh as expansion opportunities. One of the things uh that the code review and land use is looking at hopefully bring to the council is a way to hopefully generate some capital funds for the natural gas system. And so

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hopefully we were to do that and we could generate some funds that that will help us move maybe move some of these uh along a little quicker. So any uh before I move on to the next stuff, any anything on the existing projects?

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Mr. Mayor, >> go ahead. >> Okay, will we scroll down a little bit and then >> you've got some summations right there in that little in this middle line here. >> Can you just kind of zoom in on that because I want to let this marinade, >> you're looking at between the water

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fund, the sewer fund, and the natural gas fund. If you take those topline numbers, total project costs, >> you're looking at over $29 million of improvements in our enterprise funds, water, sewer, gas that we have on

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ongoing that we need improvements for. And I only see out of that 29 million, roughly five, let's say five and a half, almost six million. So, you're talking $23

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million worth of unfunded improvements that we need to make that that we've identified. And that's before he gets the master plan and the master plans back for water and sewer and we start adding in wet wells and

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other stuff that we know is deficient. It's a to your point, like you've said a a lot of times, we've got a lot of aging infrastructure that we need to to address and if we keep taking money out of those funds,

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20%. And I do want to point out that 20% doesn't include the admin fee. The admin fee is another what >> 6 680 or so. >> That was a confusion. So you're you're talking

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>> 653 >> another 653 that we take out as an admin fee no matter what. >> So Councilman Cosen, I'm I'm agreeing with you. We we talk a lot, but we're here we are still pulling pulling money,

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robbing Peter to pay Paul. It it's it's a it's a grim situation. I I just wanted to topline number call that out. You're talking $29 million worth of projects and we know that's going to increase. We know it's going to

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increase. We just had a presentation from uh our community development director talking about where our our capacity could be if everybody were to suddenly want to connect. So, it doesn't paint a pretty picture

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for us. It's very sobering. >> And what do you what would you suggest? >> I've made many suggestions across the years. They're not very popular. But >> like increase taxes.

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>> No, sir. >> And then what? Well, if we want to talk about wants versus needs and we want to we want to have that discussion, if a service is offered that we can take advantage of [cough] and we elect to keep our own service and

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provide enhanced services, that to me is a want, not a need. >> What's enhanced services? If we decide that we want to provide a service above and beyond what we can get from the county that >> Oh, you're talking about the fire

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department. >> Yes, sir. >> I get you. >> We made we made we all made a choice, myself included. >> But that's this is the knock-on effect of that choice. We made a decision and said that that was a need when in my

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opinion it really wasn't a need. It was a want. We wanted to provide an an additional service above and beyond what we could get from the county. We could have negotiated and said, "We want the same deal as Freeport." >> I think the rub on that was

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is that there's uh there's two other departments that are a bigger drain on the city. And I couldn't figure out why are we picking on the fire department. We weren't picking on the fire department.

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We asked we asked our staff to come up with solutions and that was one of the things that the staff recommended. That wasn't that wasn't the council just pulling it out of thin air and picking on the fire department.

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>> And if we are really the voice of the people, they spoke loud and clear. >> I would disagree because I've had plenty of people say, "Wait a minute. You mean to tell me that we could have saved money, especially now when we're looking at

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charging them $200 a house? >> Okay. So, how about how about this? I asked Clay if we could put it on a ballot and he said we couldn't. >> That's right. >> No, no. I said we can create it on the

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ballot. It's just not bind. It is a non-binding referendum. So you cannot create a binding referendum on this issue. But if you want to put it on the ballot, we can ask the question, but it does not mean that anybody has to follow it is the issue.

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>> Right. Kind of like a a straw poll. >> Correct. And that's why those are discouraged and disfavor. Not unlawful, just discouraged and disfavored. >> But at least the public would get a chance to weigh in. >> Understanding their opinion has absolutely no weight in the long run.

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And also the question on the ballot would not be clear and contextual. >> I think a lot >> got to be yes no. >> A lot of people >> do you want to keep our fire department? Yes or no? >> How is that a fair How is that a fair question when they don't understand that they could either get charged $75 or

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$211 [snorts] >> public meetings like this ads in the new uh public uh public announcements in the newspaper. But once we once we endeavor to make those things, we cannot have discussions about it in in favor one way

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or the other. Once we once we decide we're going to put it out for a poll, we can't advocate one way or the other for it. >> I don't think it takes away our First Amendment right. >> It absolutely does. By state statute, you cannot use your public position to address any political question. the

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moment you put on a ball, you lose the right to engage in discourse as an elected official about what you've put before the people, even in a non-binding referendum. >> Well, I I'll remember like it was yesterday when uh when the council was

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fussing and fighting about uh an [clears throat] unqualified city manager and wanting to keep him and or get or get rid of him.

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to the extreme that our charter needed to be changed to do that. It Paul Rushing walked up to that podium and said, "Let the people decide. Let's just put this to bed. Quit fussing about it. Let the people decide."

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And I'm kind of channeling Paul Rushing right now. >> But you put your name on a ballot to make these kind of decisions every single year when it comes to the budget. We can't defer our decision-making

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authority to a subject matter expert or to we're just going to take a vote every time we have a hard decision. This is what we got elected to do. [snorts] And I got my my opinion of why I'm sitting here is because I told the people I'd represent him. And my

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understanding is the people want our fire department. That's that's what I'm getting >> and that's fine. But let's have a conversation about where are we going to find the money. To your point, you you made the point earlier. We we talk and talk and talk

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and yet here we are another year down the road and have we made any progress? You're exactly right, Councilman. We have we have talked and talked and talked for the last year, the last year and a half really because I'll go back even further when

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we asked staff to do a exercise on what it would take to get to either 10% or zero and it was a blood bath. And I think every one of us had our eyes wide open and opened to what that looks

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like. It would decimate city hall. But here we are 18 24 months later and we haven't made any progress. If anything, we've got more demands on us and less revenue. I think a lot of the talk is because of

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just what we said a minute ago. If you look at the astronomical amount of money we've got to come up with to complete these projects, we sit out here going, "Please give me money. Please give me money." But when it comes to the federal government and the state, it's going to take throughout their entire legislative

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session to figure out if we're going to get any of that money throughout that period of time or what are the timelines and constraints on that. Your match monies to go along with that. It's there's a lot of talking time in there because and it seems we seem helpless a

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lot of times and it's because we're having to ask for that money and the costs keep going up. Um I agree with you. There's a lot of talking that goes on here, but it's because of that. That's the bottom line. I mean, you can see the numbers just like I can. So can

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the public. It's posted. I mean, it's just one of those things to where we don't have that kind of revenue coming into this city to fund all these projects, but they've got to be done. That's why it's not to look negative on the council because you're not accomplishing it from year to year. You're trying to you're trying to build

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that pot of money so that you can and finding every way possible to accomplish that maybe with somebody else instead of you. But that's I mean that's it. >> Go ahead. >> Can I get another change a whole subject

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clay and 11 >> fence at that park? I see parks and grounds on here. I know that's not a CIP project, but when's that fence going in? >> They've cut the tree down. >> They've cut the tree down and he is in the process of making the fence now.

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>> So, the the guy who's going to install the fence, he's creating the panels now. >> So, um just on current year stuff equipment wise in terms of the general fund, we have uh re purchased and received uh everything that we budgeted

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except for Christmas reflections. We've forgone that based on the revenue that came out of that. Staff's been doing Andrew's department has doing a lot of in-house stuff. The welders been building some pretty nice things. So, um, we feel comfortable with that. But the rest of this has been, uh, received and installed at this point. In terms of

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water, sewer, and natural gas, um, we have purchased everything and everything's either been received or one thing we are still waiting to receive. So, this point, you know, in terms of things we actually move forward with, we're at 100% if you include what we forgone. So, we're trying to keep up with all that and get that moving.

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>> Kobe, on the police vehicles, did you use impact fees for those? >> We did. >> How many? >> 60% of the 235. So, [clears throat] was it 141 give or take? >> Got it. >> Yep. Um, non- capital improvement projects

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that we budgeted for this year. Um, the strategic plan that'll be coming to the council at the next meeting. uh land development code rewrite that is currently still active and y'all budgeted the dollars for that next year to finish that contract. The safe streets for all again dealing with the

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federal government um is is pretty painstaking. So working with Liberty on that. Um the utility building office renovation we have paused that just to talk about city hall which we're going to go back to in just a minute. Um equipment yard break room we've received

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that. Uh well building repairs that was the roofs those have been completed. Lift station fences completed. Poleb barn enclosure completed. Wagner drive will be started in late August early September. Hugh Adams road under design. And the rest of these we have forgone

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again for uh effluent line material and the bypass pump at number nine. And then lastly the sprayfield pump. So we budgeted to do both. Prices came in higher than we thought. So we will budget to do the other one next fiscal year. Uh once we do that, we will have all three sprayfield pumps up and running. So currently we have two that

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are active now and running. So going back real quick to city hall, um you know, as we've talked about, there are needs in terms of the roof, some window repair, the two off two areas down here that need to be tore out and redone. Uh another HVAC unit needs

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to be purchased and installed. And so, uh, in that with HVAC included, we're looking somewhere between $800 and $900,000 to do that. Um, I've spoken with, uh, Jeremy PFM, our financial advisor, about that. And we're looking somewhere between 70 and $80,000 a year

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in terms of debt service if we if we went that route. Um, and that payment could, if we were to do that in this fiscal year, we could we could push that payment to Octo to the next fiscal year. So, one year out. So, we would do the construction in the current or in the fiscal year and then the next fiscal year we would start the payment on that

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debt service. So, um we're at the point to where um you know we don't have to answer that question tonight. That's something we will handle during budget and bring forth, but it's something we need to decide on how we're going to fund for those maintenance repairs. >> Amy, >> how many um HVAC systems are there in this building?

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>> There's supposed to be two, but there's only one currently. And when, if I recall correctly, when you all moved into this building, when it was first purchased and HVAC was installed, is that accurate or not accurate? >> It was. Uh, I think Mr. Drake was here

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at the time. >> Um, so is that the system that's bad or is it the other system? >> The current active one is the newest one. >> And how much is that project? Just the HVAC. What about 60 65 >> 80,000

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>> the rest of the 900,000 is for mold remediation the >> Yep. roof mold remediation that's tearing the roof out redoing it. There's going to be some there's some exterior work needs to be done for the stucco. There are window seals that need to be corrected. >> Yep. >> And there's no meat on the bone to even

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think about the old Harbison building. >> There could be that's what if the council wants to do. [laughter] I I do recall a uh a unique idea that uh was pitched of the CRA using that as an office and then because the CRA is using

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that as an office, the CRA can renovate that building to a certain extent. >> When did that conversation take place? >> Uh that was pitched to me a couple years ago. >> At least two and a half years ago. >> You talking about the community center?

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I'm talking about Harvest. This red brick building right out in front in front of you by Josh. >> That's called Harbison Field. >> Maybe I've misunderstood. >> Harberson Lumber Company was the lumber company in the city. That was its main sales office. >> Okay. I misunderstood.

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>> Okay. Was it Josh Irwin that suggested that? >> No, sir. >> You said you said a couple of years ago. >> Yes, sir. >> He was here during that time. I I suggested it to >> You don't have to call their name if you're not comfortable with it.

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>> Yeah. I I I that idea was pitched to me. I then suggested it to a couple of board members and the CRA director and it never went anywhere, but it but it certainly was an option >> and the city could use it anytime they wanted

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like drive-th through finance. >> Okay. [snorts] Let me ask Mandy a question real quick while you're on this subject. U the um yeah it's a very old historic building and the original floor and the original ceiling is still there

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>> if it were stripped back down to pretty much its original appearance. Would it could it qualify for some historic money? >> That would be stripping it down probably part of the brand. I would think come on

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the 25th and ask the chief of that department. >> The historical >> the historical problem there just so you know Dr. Anderson's the roof and the way the roof has been redone on a couple of occasions may permanently disqualify it. I know that's been looked at previously and that was part of the evaluation when

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this whole property was for sale. To answer your question, no, it could not be drive-through finance. That in fact in the plan it's expressly disallowed for that type of city function. However, the concept when it was pitched and then ultimately the CRA went a different direction would have been to take that

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facility out front there and to take out what I'm going to call the office add-ons that Chelco put in. I if you ever seen an old picture of it, it used to have high ceilings. So, the drop ceiling there would go out. It was it was a lumber showroom, right?

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>> After you'd walk in, you'd have lumber piled to the ceilings. The idea was to strip it out, make the front an open-ended area, put off a space in the back where you would be the original drop area that you can use with the understanding that that would then be the meeting hall that could be used for

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CRA meetings, but then also it would be a public meeting room as a community center and possibly as a city council chamber. That was the multi-purpose consideration. So, no, you could not put city staff into the CRA's office, but if you had a city a CRA meeting room,

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there's no reason the city council could not come over there. And the discussion at the time >> and just change the name plates. >> Correct. And then let the city call share into that or use it um and then repurpose as part of city hall to other options as well. >> Okay.

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>> That's that's why I don't want to kill the CRA. There's there's levers we can pull with the CRA >> and with that being a historic building that has been identified as a a structure that is in need of repair that's why it falls under the plan. You

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just can't turn into a city hall operational facility >> doesn't necessar >> I will also note that at the time without going through too much history there um just so you know Mr. co for your situational awareness of that issue. At the time, the decision was

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made to locate the CRA director into city hall to not spend any money and to revisit that later. An argument then ensued about whether that he should be in city hall or elsewhere. He was then moved somewhere else. Then that became another point. So the office of the CRA became a

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cont point of contention for the CRA board that because of all of those issues, it never came back to that original discussion. It was not as though they ever voted it down. The plan though does prohibit what you described. It does not prohibit the broader issue

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that they talked about. >> Good thing isn't the director now can be two places at once. So, [laughter] >> you don't need two offices. >> So, solve that problem. Um, so anyways, we will revisit the city hall project. >> Can you can you give us some stats? You

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said it was $80,000 in financing, but is that what's the term and what what would be the the approximate interest rate? Do you do you have that information? >> I don't They didn't They just I have to ask him what that's just a number he gave me based off of a leasing scenario. So he was he was providing some options of you know debt service outright or a

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leasing scenario that would not impact the city's um basic essentially our debt debt income ratio that leasing would not be considered a that type of debt >> but we we can kind of basically get 12

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months out of this by by the way we time it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No. Wait. >> How long would that project take? If you did everything that needed to be done in this building and you borrowed the money, how long will it take start to

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finish to complete it all? >> Anywhere from eight months to a year probably. I'm just being on the conservative side because this is the roof. So, part of the roof was to replace but to get rid of these these um these sunlights. That's what that's a lot of leaking happen there. So, that would get rid of that. Again, Stuckco

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repair, tearing all that out, redoing every doing those two rooms. So just on the conservative side, eight months to 12 months. >> And will that take care of everything in this building that's needed? >> Should should Yes. >> I forgot who did the who did the analysis for you?

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>> The roof we had a quote on uh but the company um I'd have to pull back. We had a company come and do an envelope assessment on the whole entire building. I have to pull that back up. >> Was it Was it Trim code? Trim code did the quote on the roof, but they're not the ones who did the envelope. I have to >> Is it all still valid?

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>> Yeah. I have a question for Amy. >> Better ask her here. [laughter] >> That's a good one. >> Well done. >> Go ahead.

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How do you borrow yourself out of debt? >> How do you what? >> Borrow yourself out of debt. It's something you got to consider. >> Yeah. Be a good steward. >> It happens every day. >> If you were lending the money and you

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looked at our financial situation, would you loan us money? >> Well, I do want to thank C. I think when you terms of financial situation, I think the city's in a better situation. We've been in a long time and you're going to hear that on Monday when the audit comes. So, there's not a financial situation. Let's because you got to

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think we had cash on hand for unrestricted fund balance last year. you added another 200,000 to it this year. The audit is going to show that we were in the black of almost 200,000 from last year to this year. That's going to go in under fixed amounts. >> Okay. >> Um >> so that sounds good. All right. That

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sounds good. The reality is we couldn't even give our employees a raise. >> Mhm. >> And we had to reduce city services. >> But you're talking about apples and oranges. >> It's just a longer conversation than we can have here. Okay.

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>> So, in terms of CIP, um, we're not getting into all tonight. There is a number of them that need to be added to the CIP. We will bring that up as we move forward. Uh, and then some other ones. So, I don't think we need to get into that tonight. Um, we'll continue to work through the budget and bring those forward to to all of you as we go

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through that, particularly during probably enterprise and general fund uh budget discussions. So, covering. Go ahead. >> One more thing. >> If if the council agrees with me, >> what I would like to do because you and

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I have had this conversation >> and and it it centers around my original request from 2019 when it comes to displaying a balanced budget as as kind of like option one, right? You take expenses from last year and revenues from last year, you transferred

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over. There's no increase in anything. That should show us kind of where we stand. But you and I through that conversation when we were kind of hashing all that out, you had said that if we were to, and I can't remember the exact phrasing that you had, but you said, "Look, if if we, you know, did the

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budget kind of the way you're talking about, it would be a lot of red." Do you remember that conversation? Can you kind of re rephrase that because I I just butchered it, but can you kind of >> Well, I guess I'm just thinking about like I think we talked about there's things that we that will naturally increase that we can't just do a flat

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budget one. For example, insurance. We already know insurance is going up 10 and a half%. So, we know that's roughly $85,000 of new cost to the city for next fiscal year. That's coming. That's something we're going to have to deal with as we go through it. So, there's a number of those that I think those are

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things that we just can't do anything about. So that would cause the deficit there. Um but if our general fund revenues I'm just using general fund doesn't exceed um doesn't exceed even those we're going to be worse off. So that that's what I mean by a lot of red. I just don't

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>> Okay. So what I what I'm asking the council is would you be willing to give him direction to show us that because to me I think we need to see that as a as part of the picture as part of the conversation because to me that needs to be part of the conversation and the starting point and how we can make some

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of these decisions. if if I I think it's not doing us any favors at the council level if we place it all on him and say fix this and balance this out for us and then and then we just come back in and start redlining things. I think we as a

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council need to see the ugly. >> I think he's the d he's he's the city manager. This is your job and you know he's got to do what he's got to do. I mean, and I know we're not going to have the resources. You're going to have to use every resource that we have. You

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cannot just do it like we want or maybe you want, like don't bring in any transfers or whatever. That's ridiculous. I can tell you FRS is going up, your insurance is going up. Uh the I don't know what other costs, but that's exactly what I had asked in prior years.

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It's like just give us that dollar amount. How much do you want to give for raises? cuz all of that's going to cost right there's, you know, half a million dollars. >> But that's what I'm saying. I want him to present that to us without basically fixing it for us. In other words, I want

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him to present that with all the red >> because it's going to look it's going to look like it's in the negative and like it's not a balanced budget. >> Is this just the city? >> Is this are you talking about just the city's budget or the CRA's budget as well? >> Inside of the cities when it gets

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adopted. So, I don't understand >> the city budget. >> It is the city budget. He's talking about the city budget. >> Talking about the general fund or the whole kitten kaboodleoodle. >> I'm just trying to figure out. I think everybody at this dis

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has said they want to help our business, our historic business district, and we know how how expensive that's going to be. and with the I don't know what the word is, the reserve fund, the um the the trust

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fund of the CRA is $4 million and that would go a long way on the alleyway. I see the problem with the CRA is they're trying to spread it out and do too much and get too little done. If you just

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laser focus on one thing, get it done, and then the next year, get the next alligator that's the closest to you and focus on it and focus on the next one. That's kind of like how people do their budget at home. Uh they'd like to have

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uh a bass boat, but they don't want that. They can't afford one. So, what do I what do I need to do? Well, I need some good, dependable transportation to get to work and back and get the kids to school. So, I'll focus on a car and see if I can't get me a car that I can

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afford the payments on. You prioritize what's the most important thing. >> And I'm what I'm asking for is is a tool to help us prioritize. If if he shows us the budget and he doesn't fix all of it for us and he says, "Look, FRS went up,

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health health insurance went up, all this stuff goes up and it's all red. It's in the negative because he hasn't balanced it." To me, that then helps us see where we're starting from. >> Isn't that opposite of what you've always asked for all these prior years?

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You wanted a balanced bud budget brought forward. That's what I don't understand because you're gonna have to tell us anyway because I'm going to ask every one of those questions >> whether he brings us whether it's redlined or not. I need to know how much of this aggregate budget is for FRS, how

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much is for insuranceances, how much is for a raise because we already know that it'll be we're going to have to bring in transfers. And you know, you were trying to rightfully so trying to reduce how much we're bringing over, but that's almost impossible. We're not going to be

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able to get there, not this year. And I don't think we're going to get there next year either. >> Right. It's it's going to take us years. What I have what I have asked for over the years has been and I forget the term that I called it but basically >> zero balance budgets what you were

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>> it's not so much balance as it is you don't you don't take and and try to move everything over because what what was copy copy all of your expenses and assume none of your expenses change. Copy your revenue.

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Your revenue is going to increase. He showed us that tonight. they they roughly think 5%. So bring that over. That should give you an idea right there just on the revenue side of what what thin little margin you've got to work with.

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And then I'm asking for him to show us, okay, you you got an extra $300,000 because that 5% increase. Well, here's a million dollars worth of increase that we're looking at between FRS, between health insurance, between whatever

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building, financing, buying police vehicles, whatever whatever it is. It's it's going to be there's going to be a version of the of the budget that's going to be negative in red because we start out with just $300,000

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worth of excess and we're looking at $2 million worth of stuff. We got to figure out how to buy or delay. My problem with delaying, because I saw this firsthand when I first came in, you delay stuff, it only gets more expensive. You haven't solved a problem if you

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delay it a year or two. It just gets more expensive. >> Amy, >> uh, Kobe, in your revenues, general fund revenues, did you have how much we're anticipating on the fire assessment inside of that?

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No, we will uh the fire chief and I have met go over the budget for next year. There are certain items in there. So, what will happen is as we go through the fire assessment process, well, we're a little we're going to be further behind now. So, um I will present to you in on in July whenever we get to that point of

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if we go through this exercise a balanced budget without the consideration of that revenue in it because I don't know if you're going to do it or not. And then I'll have one prepared, a budget prepared for if the council does adopt that assessment, then I'll provide that to you the end of August for you to move into the public

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hearings. But I can't I can't provide you a balanced budget with a revenue source. I don't know. We're going to collect. >> No, but somehow can you build it into your little Excel? >> I'll make I'll make two separate ones. >> Yeah, that's >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'll make two separate ones because it it takes a lot of work to edit it. >> I don't want to Yeah. And I don't want

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to wait till August to figure out. >> I don't think any of us do. So, I believe this meeting was advertised from 4 to 6 and I think at 6. >> There's never an ending time. Councilman, >> are we done? >> Uh, when are we set up for our next meeting? >> Assuming you'll be getting out with

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getting up with everyone middle of July. We talk about we'll be looking at general fund general fund expense budgets first and then we'll do enterprise funds. >> Okay. All right. Yes, ma'am. I just want to share with you and I shared it with uh Sunumi earlier today that I've got

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commitments the rest of the summer through the end of September and I can't be here before five o'clock. >> So just FYI. >> Well then let's just amend it. Is there any problem with us starting the budget meeting at 5:00?

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>> All we do when when Simmy reaches out she'll get with all of y'all on the dates and times and then we can go from there. I mean we recognize one council member can't be here before five. We'll we'll get with everyone. >> All right. Okay. Well, I'm going to go ahead and close this meeting. Do we have

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a public comment on this thing? >> I don't. >> I would like to give kudos to somebody who didn't drag this out and stayed nice and quiet. >> Thank you, Glenn. >> Yeah, good job, Glenn. You did top

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meeting.