How many? >> Man, you see the Brandy female? My dear, I think she sent it to everyone. Yeah. >> Mr. Dan, >> you ready, girl? >> Might as well be. >> We want to call this do the
>> Yes, sir. I Yeah, you couldn't wait to say that, could you? He does it every time. Appreciate the reminder. Uh anyway, um we'll call this city council meeting to order. February the 9th, 2026, 5:00 p.m.
We'd ask you to stand and join us for the invocation and the pledge of allegiance. >> Father, we thank you for this day, Lord, and allowing us to come together to carry out the will of the people, Lord, and that which you would have us do. Father, we pray, dear Lord, you will be with us and guide us throughout this
meeting. Um, grant us civility and the ability to just carry out business without letting our emotions play into it all that much. Lord, grant us wisdom, grant us guidance, humility, and humbleness. God, we ask these things in Jesus name. Amen. >> Amen.
>> Amen. I pledge algiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
>> All right, we want to uh Kobe who's got the uh employee of the quarter if you want to take that. >> Yeah, thank you, mayor. uh council uh for this employee of the quarter uh is Miss Janet Phillips. She is our airport administrative assistant. Um she's done
nothing but great a great job out there. Uh her her supervisor and her her uh staff that works for every day. Can't have any higher praise for her. And ultimately the last few weeks she came and assisted the finance department. Uh we were short. And so she's been
invaluable to that and keeping up with billing and assisting us in that process. uh and sitting through Billy and looking and seeing what are the things how can we make this better and easier on staff. So, she's invaluable to the city and we appreciate everything she does for us. >> All right, you bring her up.
Come on up. >> All right. All right. Ready? >> See that? >> One more. >> Perfect. >> All right. Thank you. Thank you. >> All right. >> Congratulations. >> Congratulations.
All right, we'll go right to the uh consent agenda. We'd certainly entertain a motion uh to approve as written or if you want something pulled off of there, this would be the time to do it. >> Motion to approve. >> Can we remove E18? >> Wait, wait, long second. You see going to get a second.
>> Oh, I'll second. >> All right. I would I'd like to remove though E1A before we vote. >> Okay. E1A. >> Okay. I'll modify my motion to include that change. >> Modify. Second. >> All right. Is there any other any other?
Yeah. Go ahead. >> Mayor, I came in today and made a couple um scribbler changes uh just small small errors with Sunumi today and she has corrected those. Um, do we need to point those out?
>> Do you have those specific minutes? >> Yes, I do. >> So, with those changes, let's just let the record reflect that the minutes will reflect the changes that Sunumi has in her possession at this point in time. >> Can Can he tell us what they were?
>> Yes. >> Go ahead. Sumi, would you like to do that? >> I will. Okay. Um, on the January 12 minutes, uh, there was a place that said, "Mr. Harrison stated that discussions about transferring fire services to the city have occurred for
over 20 years." That's c that's county, not city. And uh then page 12 of those January 12th minutes, uh, Mr. Harrison stated that the city something with regards to the
um fire assessment uh or something uh it said property appraiser uh that should have been legislature uh in reference to property taxes. the last line of section three of those minutes on
>> ahead. Okay. And there was another one on the February 2nd special meeting. Um I had asked, if you'll recall, for Kobe to explain to the public and to the
council the uh the deadlines for the fire assessment, first hearing, setting the first hearing date. And if you'll recall, he did uh explain that, but all it said was Mr. Harrison asked why setting a deadline is
necessary, but it doesn't reflect that Mr. Townsson clarified all of that deadline uh those deadline requirements. So, that was part of that discussion. Okay. Um now, now everything you've said so far is something she is going to adjust
or change. She she has uh >> Yes, sir. I've already made those changes in the draft and speaking to the office today. >> Okay. Do we want to get the council to approve those changes? >> All right. Just just reflect that those are changes made to the minutes. So, if you'll make a motion, council be.
>> Yes, sir. I will amend my motion to include those changes. >> Amended. Second. >> All right. Anything else? >> Mayor, >> go ahead. >> Um, I should have said this earlier, but uh we have a new member of our community that's >> Wait, has that to do with the agenda?
No. All right. You can bring that up in a minute. Okay. Yes, sir. Let's take care of this one. >> Okay. >> All right. Anything else on the agenda? >> Do we need to decide where to move uh E1A? >> We do. >> Where you want that? Go.
>> We can make it 4C4. Everybody's comfortable with that. >> C4. >> C4. 44. >> All right. See? Okay. And that was the anniversary event
>> event. Okay. All right. Good enough. All right. Now on the consent agenda and we are at >> me. >> All say I >> I >> I >> I >> I
>> I carry. Thank you very much. And we'll move right on into the regular agenda. Is there any other changes besides what we just added? >> Okay. >> Motion to approve the regular agenda with the changes. >> Second. >> All right. Motion second. Uh all in
favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> I. >> I. I. >> Carrie. Thank you very much. All right. I remind everybody pull up to your mics as you can. All right. So, Kobe, we'll go ahead with uh 4C1.
>> Thank you, Mayor. Um I'll let Mr. Atkins can clarify, but because we did not pass a resolution of intent prior January 1, we must receive consent from the property appraiser and tax collector um for the non-avorum assessment process. Um so I don't know that this if we need
to make our formal request or need to approve it, but I have spoken with both the property appraiser and tax collector and they are comfortable with doing this for the city. Um so I'll let Mr. clarify if we need any sort of approvals. >> I would like to have the city specifically authorize Mr. Townson to seek and obtain those approvals at this
time by form of a motion. >> So moved. >> Second. >> Oh, I have a motion to second. Any questions, >> comments? Any comments from anyone? >> All in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> I. >> I. I.
>> Carrie. Thank you very much. All right, Debbie. We'll go to C2. >> Thank you, mayor. Uh, this item is the consultant contract. If you'll remember, we brought this forward in early January uh that we received. Um before I go any further, Miss Sandra, her name is
Sandra. Um she is available to be on the phone if we have any questions that the council may have. I may have gotten a little early than I thought, but um she is available ultimately as we discussed there. There's a proposal. It is not attached, is it?
I'm going to talk through it. So, while I talk through this, could we get that printed off? Can you go back to the January 26 meeting uh and get that printed? Thank you. I'll go through it though. We'll bring that forward that we had attached then. Um the proposal from
a centure I believe is the company name. Um Miss Sanders also the consulting performs this for the county and so I was recommended by both the county and Panama City for this company. Uh their services would be a total of 31,000. So the first phase is 22,500. The second
phase is $8,500. And then as we as we discussed, if we get far enough in the process, there's postage fees as we get closer to time. So that's why I had estimated about $40,000 to do the assessment through this consultant. So um let me Jesse or Michael, can y'all go back to the
January 26th agenda and click on that agenda item? I apologize it's not being attached, but it is no different than what they're about to pull up. I'm sorry. The first meeting of January. Yeah. The 12th
right there. be number six. You can scroll down. Keep going. Just go until I tell you to stop right there. So, this is the proposal from Censor um that would ultimately get us what we need if we
move forward with a fire assessment uh for this fiscal year upcoming. I had I spoke to Mr. Atkinson last meeting. This is recommendation that we approve this prior to the public hearing. So that could either be tonight or the second meeting of this month. Again, I've spoken with Sandra. She's comfortable with either of those. She's available
tonight on phone or she can make herself available in person the second meeting of February. Along with this came a request for information, things that we needed to start collecting for the study. And so we've started doing that preliminarily. We'll hold on to it. If this gets approved, we will then forward that over to the consultant.
>> And that is correct. because the public hearing is set for the exclusive and specific purpose of the levy of a non-avalorum assessment that it would be inappropriate at that time to have additional agenda items unrelated to that topic just like your budget hearings don't have additional topics
unrelated to the budget. So again don't have to do it tonight but it does not need to happen at the time of the public hearing. So since it needs to occur before then you have this meeting or you have your next meeting unless you call special meeting to do it.
Y and if we were to move forward um with this either tonight or uh the next meeting, there would be a second motion to take up and that'd be where where to pay for it. My recommendation would be to pull $40,000 from the $263,500 that we put into the unrestricted fund
balance or reserves at the last meeting to pull 40,000 out to pay for this study because this cannot be paid for by fire impact fees. >> Okay. Okay. So, you need approval on that. >> So, the first question is the contract whether we approve it or not. And then
the second one depending on be about the funds. >> The total value of the contract $31,000. >> Correct. >> Okay. >> Plus any cost of postage is your mailing >> questions. Go ahead. >> Um Kobe, does this you're saying approve
the contract for the 31 plus the additional uh cost for postage. Um, but you had mentioned to me about adding certain things to the CIP. Does is that inside of this because I if it is that's going to change the way I vote. >> No, so this contract is just the process
in which they go about it. I asked Miss Sander that question uh in email about that. Um again she was pretty she was I won't say vague but she that as we go through this process we'll have to provide to them our operating budget our capital improvement our capital budget
and for the fire department what we expect to do versus equipment facilities and manpower moving forward. Those are the things again her email she explained that's how they would build that and that'll be predicated on how much this council wants to put forward right is that the full amount of equipment and
people that we suggested in the five to 10 year plan is it less um that's that's what we do >> are we as a as a council going to have the opportunity to look at those and guide you on what at a different time >> even if we approve the >> Yes.
>> Okay. I would definitely suggest part of our initial request for information we will provide to her the five to 10 year where we plan we submitted I'll make it very clear to her that's a draft that's something she can wrap her head around and then as we move forward in this process as they come to the council and talk about the process and talk about
how we get to where we need to be uh we can clarify in there what it is that we are going to build that study off of from an equipment personnel and facility standpoint. >> Okay. So we can tweak that >> correct >> estimated. >> I mean it was larger than if we wanted to pair it back some then we could and
that Okay. So I make a motion to approve. >> Second. >> I have a motion and a second. Uh question comments. >> Anyone? >> All in favor say I. >> I.
>> I. >> I. >> I. All right. Eyes carry. Thank you very much. >> Um >> Oh, the second motion, Mayor. Uh council, the initial contract is 31,000, but in anticipation of a mailing at a later date, I would recommend you go
ahead and allocate 40,000 out of the unrestricted fund balance. Total 40,000. We won't spend it unless we actually use it. >> Motion to approve $40,000 for expenditure on the contract. >> And the general and the agenda item specifies the amount of money that was rolled into that.
>> Correct. um at the prior meeting >> and second. >> I have a motion second. Question. Go ahead. >> Uh Kobe, what are the other options besides what you've offered? What else is available? >> Can you use impact fees? Uh the next
step would be to go through the budget a little. Go through what we probably maybe had not spent up to this point. Um and either not spend it or anticipation. I would say this is the easiest route to go. Um, that's the only route that I've looked at so far because it's unrestricted and we just allocated it.
Only other option would be to go through the budget and go through the line items and see what we haven't spent and what we want. We'll just decide we're not going to spend it. >> Can we do it at a different time? Does it have to be tonight or can we do it next meeting? Like approve where it's going to come from? >> I mean, we ultimately I guess we wait
till the next one. We're just going to sign it. We won't pay a bill until we incur cost till we receive an invoice. Well, they're not going to turn it around in two weeks, are they? >> No. >> Okay. >> The contract you're talking about, >> what are you talking about? >> How we're going to pay for it?
>> Yeah. We won't >> ask for two weeks so we can figure out is there other sources besides taking out of reserves? I guess ultimately, but you want me to look through the existing budget and see if there's money either we know we're not going to spend or budget that or money that we can put off something off until next fiscal year
>> or just give us the alternatives. What if there are none, there are none, but if there are, I would like to know what they are and >> Okay. >> See which would be better. >> Okay. >> Do you have any ideas? >> I mean, again, I have to go through
every budget, look at line items to see what's remaining. I mean that was that 263,000 was of dollars that weren't going to be spent on projects that we already knew we you know we had the money left over from the library. We had to sell the property between 21st and 22nd and then we had the fees paid uh
the the code enforcement fines paid on those properties. So I couldn't f personally I couldn't find a better use of some of those dollars being unrestricted and ability to move around. But I'm more than willing to go through budget certain departments and see if I can't find $40,000.
Well, don't we have like just excess fees just come out, you know, unexpected things, whether it be insuranceances and other things that might come forward that >> that are already not re, you know, >> that have occurred up to now. >> Yes. >> Uh yeah, that again that that'll be a
question. I look I have to look at the revenues and see if we've exceeded any of our estimated revenues for this year so far. Any other comments? >> Motion and second on the table. >> Yeah. >> All in favor say I. >> I.
>> Nay. >> Repeat the motion, please. I'm sorry. >> To follow his recommendation of just pulling it out of the reserves, the money that we just recently allocated from leftover money. >> I >> I >> All right. Eyes carry. Thank you very
much. Anything else you need on that, Kobe? >> Uh, no. My >> Okay. All right. Let's move on to 43 4C3. >> Thank you, mayor. Uh council attached is kind of a rough draft of the budget schedule for this upcoming fiscal year
budget process. Uh you'll notice that some of the dates are not set yet. Um but just kind of wanted to make sure we were all comfortable with this schedule and layout before I kind of set those in stone. Anything in yellow is a workshop. Anything in blue is either a regular
meeting uh that is also a public hearing which you see on July 27th. No, it isn't. It's a regular meeting to set the tenative millillage and to adopt the public hearing dates for the budget. And then in September, those are both public hearings to approve the mill rate and in the budget. Anything in white or not
highlighted is just a internal process. So you can see where we're at where we're at on the timeline, what we're doing uh from a staff perspective. So, if there's any issues with that or you'd like to see something added or removed or if anybody has a glaring conflict in schedule, let me know. But
if not, we'll move forward um with this and I will find dates to assign to those four workshops number three, four, five, and six, one in June, two in July, and one in August. >> How quick you want to response? Well, I just want if no one has an issue with the number of workshops or the
layout we have here or the timeline, then uh then we'll move forward and I'll assign dates to that to those four meetings. >> Mr. Mayor, >> go ahead, >> KBY. How how how closely does this mirror what we did last year in terms of the number of budget hearings?
>> So, I went back so I went back and looked through last year. This is one less and that one was in August at the very end of August. So, it was kind of a right there before we got into hearings. So, we can add that in there. Um, but it's it's one less and that one was at the very end of August, right before September for our public hearings.
>> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Um, I'm thinking that we might have to that it's going to be tight with our finances for this upcoming budget. So, I'm really thinking, should we add something
towards the beginning of this process because we're going to have >> several things I think that you're going to have thrown at us that we need to >> consider, reconsider. And >> so, the longest stretch without one would obviously be between the March 12th and then the meeting in June.
>> Uh, the first meeting in June is is going is going to be about revenues and capital improvement projects. uh because that is after the property appraiser provides to us the preliminary taxable value. So that's going to give us a pretty rough estimate of what a property tax will come in at. Um so and again
that's that's going to be a rough you know of property taxes the state numbers for sales tax, gas tax, those types of things they may be in by that time they may not. So we we get in that period of time where those those estimates come from the department of revenue and we get that off their website. And so my
other concern is I don't know what's going to happen tonight in reference to the CRA, but you know we're going to have probably discussions about how we're going to move forward with that. So I'm just curious is that you if you'll remember for the past two budget cycles, we ran out of time. So we
couldn't do this option because we didn't have enough time between the time we decided and the time that we would need to advertise whatever the decision was. So, is that timeline built in here for us to make a decision? And >> well, I think you've also got not only
are you have workshops on the budget, but in between we still have our two monthly meetings as well. So, you'll still have if council council wants to do it at our regular meetings, you have time and ample time to discuss it there. Um, I mean, if if the council wishes to put in a specific workshop to that, then we add that in there. I would I would
suggest sometime between March and June because between March and June, that's pretty heavy on that's where we're really getting into staff. working on department budgets. >> Yes. >> Um but again this this schedule I put a note down there for the public and everyone that it's subject to change. You can add delete.
>> Okay. So you will add something if we if one of us are more they want to have an additional one we'll add it. >> Thank you. Okay. That's thank you. >> Okay. >> So if everybody's comfortable with this schedule then we will assign then I'll move forward. I'll work with Sumi. We
will work with everyone. We'll sign the dates for June, July, and August. And once that's uh solidified, we will put that out to the public notice. If everybody's comfortable with that. >> Mhm. >> So Kobe question. If uh
you know, we don't like she said, we don't know what what's going to happen with CRA thing tonight. Uh we don't know what the board county commissioner's response will be to your uh agenda item tomorrow night. Um, but once we have
those two issues resolved, we begin to have a better idea of our our our budgeting and what we might have to work with is so is March the 12th. Um, is that soon enough if we had those answers and those issues resolved by that time?
Does that can can we does that give you a head start, I guess, is what I'm asking. is March 12th. Uh early enough head start to for you to have a good picture of what your your your departments need to even do budgetwise, you know. >> I mean, we're I mean, we're already on
February 9th. I would say um I would say yes. I mean, we start April 6th individually depending on if we have finance by that time or not. Um I'll meet with them myself individually and go over their department their budgets, start discussing what's in them. Um and then we'll fine-tune those over time.
Um, so I'd say, yeah, I mean, we're less than a month before that first one. Um, if if council feels that it needs to be sooner, then we can move it up. But, um, I think I think we'll be fine in that aspect. I think staff's pretty pretty flexible and nimble. We can make changes as we need to department budgets.
>> Good. Thank you. >> Okay. Ready to move? >> Okay. We'll go to 4C4. >> Does he need a motion on that or no? >> Staff direction. >> I'm good with that. Staff direction. You're not setting any of the dates or times this
>> 4C4 was uh E1A on the consent agenda which was um uh anniversary event that the Sweet Southern Comfort is having. The only I don't have a problem with what they're doing. But I did have a uh comment and I just wanted clarification.
I understood that they have an alcohol license, but there are other entities in the downtown area that also like to do serve alcohol out on the street. And so I've learned in the process that I guess there's a special permit that even
Southern Comfort will need to get uh in order to serve alcohol outside, whether it's Bloody Marys or mimosas or whatever it might be. So my question is um I've also learned that they have one
week before the event to produce that alcohol beverage. Who on our staff needs to monitor? How do we monitor that to ensure because they're already advertising? Not only them, but all the entities that are doing this along the way are advertising to the public.
>> Um so is that our staff that has to follow up on that? And what do they do? And how do you cancel if they fail to get one? >> So I I'm unaware up to this point of us having to cancel one. Everybody assumingly gets it gets it in time. But in what we do is chron as part of the
application process and it's in the application. Uh the applicant knows they have to get an ABT permit temporary from department of revenue I believe is that um and so we require an either have it at time application or you must have it to him no later than one week prior to
the event. If that is not received, the camp the event won't happen. Now, again, I've never we never been through that process. So, I don't know exactly how we would cancel it, but we would. I mean, we'd have a phone call. Chris Strong have a call. If I had to, I have call them know that you did not meet the time frames within the application for the ABT permit.
>> Okay. >> Hey, since since this is is is brought up, I do have a question. And Kobe and I discussed this in our uh draft agenda meeting last week. I think we need to consider precedents um in these types of
events and and and I don't have anything against it. I I respect what this council decides, but we have to consider there's a lot of businesses downtown. 50 some odd, correct? If I'm not mistaken, there's 50ome businesses downtown. And
what what precedents do we set by indiv individual businesses wanting to shut a a block down for an anniversary? And so I think it's something that we just need to think about u before we we
we kind of do this regular if if we're going to deny others in the future when they make the same request uh downtown. um or or what. And if that's what is is decided,
that's that's that's well and good. But just something to think about. Um Mayor, would it be too vague if we just addressed this on a case- by case basis? I understand the president is important.
>> Well, I think to Councilman Harrison's point, what he's saying is that what happens when you don't approve one? And what I can tell you is if you don't approve one, there better be reasons independent of what the business is of why you're not approving one. We've had
five road closures that week already and we think it's going to be too disruptive of the businesses downtown. Um there's an already planned event. There would have to be some reasons beyond that because ultimately you would be favoring
one private business over another the moment you say yes to one and no to another. So no, I don't think you set precedent in the sense that you are now bound to do it with everyone, but you're opening the door to the challenge the first time you have to say no. >> And that's a very that's a very good
point. We have to be aware of whenever we do address these issues. >> It's a little different when you're doing it for a not for profofit or a organization that receives city funding like Main Street or DBPA that partners with the city on so many different things.
Well, I thought of for example um Seventh Street Faux restaurant, Nola's restaurant. If one or the other of th those wanted to do this, it might negatively impact the other
restaurant right across the street basically. So, and there's very limited parking around there. And so actually this issue being on seventh street could overflow into and and even affect uh
Perlith uh and so it could affect three restaurants for one celebrating that block down for an anniversary. So it just you know we we just need to think ahead. I I think so. But again I go with what this council does. >> Mr. Mayor,
>> go ahead. So, we have we've actually had uh Ernie, Chef Ernie, shut down that block before. I think when he when he first took over the first two or three years um that he was there. Um I remember him shutting down and doing a gumbo fest type thing, right?
>> Um and he he kind of he didn't shut down that whole block. He just shut down kind of right there in front of his >> his uh business there. So, I mean, we we actually have had that play out. Um and and it it people made it work. Like he only shut down I think right there to
the alleyway and then you know um I I think that it it pretty much played out like we've seen it play out with the other businesses that activity breeds activity. So if there's more people downtown, they then start to naturally kind of fan out and go visit the other shops. you know, I've seen
that with my own eyes where people, you know, then overflow out of that area and and start to um utilize the other businesses that are downtown that are open. So, I I think it's I think it's a good thing. >> Amy, >> um I didn't hear Mr. Harrison what you
said. I heard Nola and Pearl, but who was the third restaurant? >> Uh FO, the Vietnamese restaurant on street. Oh, >> thank you. Uhuh. Yeah. I'd like to make a motion to approve. >> Second. >> Okay. Motion to approve. Second. Any
other questions or comments >> from anyone? >> All in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> I. >> I. >> I. >> I car. Thank you very much. >> All right.
>> Mayor, real quick before we move on. That's all right. Uh, council, I just want to I got an email from Miss Sandra about the contract fire assessment. Uh, the city can pay itself back um the the amount of the assessment from the proceeds of the assessment if it goes through for the next fiscal year. So,
just something to be aware of if we were to move forward and implement that assessment, we can pay ourselves back the cost of the assessment. >> No different than you can pay yourself back for an impact fee study out of impact fees or capacity fees out of capacity fees. >> Okay. All right. Thank you. All right. All right. Well, let's go on to 5A1
with Mr. Rob All. And >> mayor, this is a public hearing. So, if you would please announce that it is in fact a public hearing for the record. >> All right. This is a public hearing. No one needs to be sworn in. I guess. >> No, no one has to be sworn in. >> All right. All right. Rob,
>> uh before I start, I just want to say thank you. I had a lot of good conversations this week uh with pretty much everybody up here. Uh so I just want to say thank you for that for at least meeting with me and have those conversations. Uh tonight I am asking you to adopt a resolution allowing the CR to issue a $5 million bond. This is
not about creating new projects. It is about doing the projects we've already discussed faster, smarter, and with greater impact. Issuing the bond gives us four key advantages. First, speed and efficiency. Instead of stretching projects out over
many years, we can complete projects now, avoiding inflation costs, repeated mobilization, and prolonged disruption to downtown businesses and residents. Second, we can uh leverage private investment. When the city invests in the CRA at this level, send a strong signal
of confidence. That signal helps attract private investment, grow the tax base, and accelerate redevelopment, including private investment that has already been pledged to the amphitheater and alleyway projects pending approval of this bond. The amount of that private investment is
already over a million dollars. Third, critical infrastructure and revenue generation. This allows us to repair and modernize infrastructure like the alleyway project and to create revenue generating as assets such as the amphitheater that
supports downtown activity and events. Like Todd just said, activity breeds activity. Uh last week I sent out to each council member, the mayor and city manager uh market and financial feasibility memorandum provided to the CRA board by
DAG in regard to the amphitheater. To summarize, they're showing an estimated net income of 340,000 per year by year three. That is after expenses and could be significantly more when we factor in private investments. Fourth, and this is I think probably the
most important point, is by issuing the bonds, we help secure the CRA's funding stream. If the state raises the homestead exemption or reduces advalorum revenue, the state is required just as it is as it will have to do with every
CRA in Florida to ensure funding is provided to meet existing debt and bond obligations. This adds a layer of stability and predictability for long-term planning. Importantly, while we've been told that we're unable to use bond proceeds directly on the
fire department, this would allow us to be able to use the bond funds for the alleyway project and reallocate funds from that account and possibly others into the fire department renovations once we get approval from all taxing authorities to complete that project
faster and more efficiently. so our firefighters have somewhere safe uh and and clean to operate. Finally, I want to emphasize the importance of communication between the CRA and city council. The CRA board is
ready and willing to pri prioritize needs before wants, but in order to do that, communication needs to be honest and open. The joint workshops should not be a once a year occurrence. Imagine how much we can accomplish if we were all on
the same page. I respectfully ask for your support. And then we also have Jelinda Herring with bond counsel here to answer questions. And then I believe Jeremy's car broke. Oh, he made it. Good. And then uh Jeremy who's the financial adviser here to
answer any questions you guys might have as well. >> Okay. >> All right. Do you guys want to open us up for questions or you want to go ahead and make a motion? >> I have a statement to make if >> Okay, >> it's a public hearing. We can have generalized comment and we do need to
take public comment before we even get to a motion in my opinion in this case. >> All right. Well, let's allow the the public to speak. Uh if anybody in particular wants to speak on this subject, u you're welcome to come to the
podium. Um, I know this isn't a Q&A, but I'm a little confused. Can >> Go ahead and pull that mic down a little bit. >> I know this isn't a Q&A, but I'm a little confused on something he said. Can I Can I ask for clarification? >> Yeah.
>> Um, when you said the something about the money couldn't go to the fire department, but it could be reallocated from >> We can't use the bond money directly for the fire department because it's not an approved project yet. We still have to go to county. I think we still have to
get it even approved through city council. But what we can do is we can use the money for the alleyway since that is an approved project and then the money that's sitting in the alleyway fund now or some other funds that we have, we can reallocate those funds to the fire department. >> Okay. That way we can prioritize
alleyway fire department and then all the wants. >> So this is just kind of a technicality. >> Yeah, that's it. >> Okay. >> Okay. Um, beyond that, I don't just remember you guys are going to the county, you know, to ask for help
tomorrow. So, whichever I don't know which direction you guys think is best to go, but if you get one, you may not get much of the other. So, just keep that in mind when you're deciding. Thank you. >> Thank you. Anyone else? Hang on,
>> Kenan Powell. I don't have any problem with the alleyway project, them getting a bond for it. But I would respectfully ask each and every one of you council members that goes for anything above
that towards this amphitheater or anything else because I don't believe the citizens of Punia have even been asked, do they want an amphitheater other than what we already have? And with this crazy stuff about the advalorum taxes,
I respectfully ask that each and every one of you city councilmen that vote for the full $5 million bond that you put your name on that individually so that you can help pay for this because we're
aren't we already almost $13 million in debt that we don't really have money to pay? >> Yes, sir. Do we need another five million tacked on to that? >> Not in my opinion. >> Mayor, >> yeah. Um, yeah. If you don't have hard,
black and white proof what you're saying, please don't blurt it out there. Uh, we are in a public meeting. >> I'm not talking to you. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Well, I I and still I I I I say and I think every citizen in Defunia
would not want this city council or this city sued for sewer backing up in buildings. I understand that. That's a million and a half dollars. Let's go for that. But now the amphitheater guys, we've got one that states rebuilt how many times? And it brings us in how much
money every year? Uh let let's wait on that. >> I've never seen the state rebuild it in my 13 years. Well, who who paid for all I I thought it was a state grant that put all the >> Well, look. Okay, so we've done that. And how much did we get out of it? >> Yeah. All we've really done out there is
uh ch change the wood out in the bleachers. That's it. >> Okay. Well, that that's expensive. So, I respectfully ask if you go for anything above what it takes for the alleyway that you put your name individually in there and let them take that money from you because I I don't really think that the citizens of Funia
are all that interested in an amphitheater when did we ever get money to give our our city employees a raise? >> Not yet. Y'all think on it. Appreciate the time. >> Thank you. >> Mayor, can I two points? one on on the
debt just to make everybody on the same page. The city is between 12 and $13 million debt, but a vast majority of that is in enterprise funds, particularly water and sewer. Natural gas has no debt. Airport has no debt. The general fund, um, we paid off the fire truck this fiscal year already. So,
that's gone. That leaves the two police vehicles and then the city hall, the bond for this property here at city hall. So, um, the majority of that 13 million is in enterprise funds and they pay for that directly. they cover that debt coverage. Uh, and in terms of
employee raises, did we give a raise, per se? No, but the city council did do a bonus uh to employees this fiscal year. >> Yes, we did. >> Mayor, >> that's the public we can be able to respond when they get done. Go ahead. >> Uh, good evening. Michael Ecklad for the
record, uh, resident of Walton County. Um, I've had the privilege of serving on the design team for the amphitheater and I just want to say that there has been quite a bit of excitement uh by the people who have attended the workshops and that's been great. I've also had the experience of participating in cities that have had CRAAS in the past and seen
the positive results that have come from that. Um, I'm in favor of everything that they're trying to do uh to make the city better to create that buzz and excitement that uh we all know that it needs. Um, so here to answer any questions about the the design, but I know we're presenting it uh later this
month at the 23rd uh to to all of you. So excited to do that. >> Okay. Thanks. >> Uh, let me ask I mean right now you kind of working on a flexible design or is it pretty well set on what you're wanting to design? >> Sure. Um, so the last presentation that
we had is is still presenting a kit of parts, right? there are still opportunities to rightsize it uh based on what happens uh at the meeting with you all. Um what we've done is we've taken the input from the citizens who have participated uh weave that into something that makes sense uh from what
we've heard from all the stakeholders uh but with some options that are still available to to be tweaked to to rightsize it. Again, um I don't have the full presentation here. love to give it to you, but I'm sure the the folks over at DAG would kill me if I didn't give them the opportunity.
>> Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, I just that was my only question. Thank you, >> Donna Arnold. I just need clarification. I'm not sure who needs to answer it. What is the cost of just the alleyway? Has that been separated from the whole 5
million? So, we can have >> I can answer that. Okay. >> Yeah. So, the last estimate that we got was sitting around 3.8, but that's that's before it goes out for actual bid. So, probably between four four and a half. >> That's the alleyway.
>> Okay. And what is in the plan for the alleyway? Is it just to fix our infrastructure down there so that everything is safe and good for the businesses or is there a lot of beautifification in that? >> Oh, there's uh there should actually be some pictures here somewhere. Um, so
that's we're going to underground the utilities that are above head. So, beautifification, adding a sidewalk so that people can actually use it to walk and we can go back to doing like peddler's alley and those kinds of things. Um, there's a that's a before picture and then there should be an after picture that'll show kind of what
it might look like later. See if they pop it up. Um, but it is beautifification, but it's also taking care of the sewage, the water. Yeah. >> Everything else underneath all the things. It's all the things have a question >> and and then the drainage issue which is another big thing. The the storm water
kind of drains towards the businesses and into some businesses that >> I had business owner come to me this week that's right there on my block and they asked me about this and um thought of something I had never thought of.
Those alleyways are not really streets. Weren't designed for people to walk on. They were designed for the businesses to have their trucks come in and unload back there. They have a semi who comes in there routinely more than once a week and unloads stuff. How is that going to
play out with that new alleyway? They unload with the forklift there and they see that as very detrimental to their business. >> All that's been designed where a semi can still fit down that that >> can he drive his because he drives out of a building comes in there and
unloads. Will he be able to go on your sidewalks and everything to unload his business? It won't shut him down or anything like that. >> That's they've they've thought about all that with the design. >> Are we going to make the alleyways one way? Because they're really not for that. And what if they were to hit some
How where's your lighting going to be? Is there going to be lighting in there? >> There will be. It's just to be determined at this point. It's still in that design phase. >> Like a light post would be detrimental to it's >> the post the post is going down. Like there's there's not going to be post. So, if there's lights, it's either going to be up lighting or uh lighting on the
wall, but again, that's still kind of in the design, >> okay, >> phase right now. >> Well, I know that was something, >> but no, especially especially Evans on that side um will definitely be and we've talked I've talked with the theater about making sure they can still load and unload their thing. So, there will be breaks in the sidewalk where,
you know, everybody's going to have their space where they can still do what they need to do. >> Yeah. Because that's that was a concern they brought up. >> Okay. Anyone else from the public? >> All right, we'll close the floor for
public comment. Um, we'll go back to the diet. Dan, you had something? >> The $13 million figure that we're in debt. I asked Kobe during one of our meetings if he could get me some facts and figures from the finance department, and that's where I came up with that
with that number, 13 million. Um, this is going to add another eight uh another 5 million which will bring us to 18 million. And um you just can't borrow your way out of debt. We keep getting in more debt and more debt and more debt.
So I have a I have a idea on how we can avoid all this debt and still get our alleyway. Um, I've been in contact with Liberty Partners. We all know what they did with
us, uh, for us with the airport project. I mean, they just did a phenomenal job on bringing funds to where we could do everything that you see out there without using any taxpayer dollars and without borrowing a dime. And so I asked
uh Tim a few days ago. I said, "Can y'all help us with the alleyway part?" And he said, "Well, yeah. All you got to do is ask us." And I said, "Well, where are you going to get the money?" And he said, "Um, Jennifer's got uh St. Joe on speed
dial." And they have a tremendous amount of money that they have got to give away every year. And St. Joe has got a big footprint in this county and are happy to help the entire community, not just the south end. And uh they're working on
that right now. And you can get uh there's a lot of infrastructure um grant money available. Um there's there's all kind of grants, but in the current administration that's uh in Washington right now, there's a lot more
grant money available than there are um things like amphitheater and art studios. Uh especially for economically deprived counties like we are in the north end. So, if we could give Liberty
Partners a chance to work their magic like they did with the airport on the on the alleyway, that would be fantastic. We don't have to get in debt. Um, this is they're proven entity. They've
done it before. They've assured me that they can do it again. They've just been focused on this airport so hard and we haven't asked them to do this. and the council can ask them if they would do that and not have to get in debt or use
any taxpayer dollars. And if Tim Parsons would like to come to the podium and back up what I'm saying, would you like to do that, Tim? >> Just wanted to speak to just a just a couple points. Uh, you know, the airport we've been engaged on on behalf of the
city now since uh 2018. Um we've had a a a great deal of success in u in obtaining grants um and and legislative appropriations to go towards that project. The council's focus the last two years I believe has been on the
affluent force main um and we've been successful the last two years I think to um procure about $3.3 million um towards towards that project. So, it's really you what I think since we've represented
the city um how you've identified your priorities through the CIP and through the major funding request list is kind of what dri has driven our efforts. Um I don't believe you know these these projects have necessarily been on that list. So, as you work through the budget
and uh work through those priority projects, I think we, you know, we certainly stand ready to whatever direction that is uh to continue to pursue funding for y'all's priorities. >> Any questions for Tim? >> Is the city marshall here tonight?
>> He's here. >> Um, >> you want him to come up? >> He can. Um, I was asking the city marshall if he's had any experience with St. Joe and he said uh the when he applied for a grant from them their uh
their only question and frustration was is that all you need and can we help you fill out the paperwork? So they've got this huge bucket of money and they're trying to get rid of it and they're trying to talk the the chief into you
know you can ask for more. So is this about what you told me? >> Yeah, it wasn't near as the the cost of this project. But yeah, when we were looking at building out where we are, um where our officers are currently using office space, we were looking at turning
that into a uh training room that we could provide for the city, for people like the Matrix, people like the college, stuff like that. And they were willing to help fund the technology and stuff for that that building, which I think at that time was about $30 to $35,000, but they were they were willing to help out with that. So,
>> and that would have been through one of those entities as a pass through because the big challenge of St. Joe with the foundation is they cannot fund a local government directly for their policies. So, there has to be a not for profit 501c3, C6 or otherwise. That's the pass through entity. So, they could fund
money towards matrix or these other groups with the money then going into a city facility. So, we would need a not for-p profofit partner in that. But certainly with that, they were very generous to the city of Paxton with their little league fields, but they did it directly through their community
organization rather than directly to the city itself. >> Okay. Um, thank you, Chief. Um, Tim, what the council just said, do you see that as an obstacle >> where they have to have a nonprofit?
>> You just have to identify one that's going to be your partner entity. >> Okay, we're talking about St. Joe now. So, so if we shift to other infrastructure related grants from the federal government that targets economically deprived uh communities,
can you still step up to the plate on that? I >> I think we would look to um grant opportunities with the Florida Department of Commerce. They've got small city CDBG and um community planning technical assistant grants. I think that um like I said if if that's
something that the city um identified and wanted to wanted to seek u we you know we could look at those types of programs. Mhm. The I understand that the U price tag on the alleyway is somewhere
between uh I was told today uh 3.5 and $4 million which everybody knows that anytime you start a project there's going to be change orders. There's going to be equip there's going to be material cost increase. There's going to be weather involved and there's uh there's
a lot of things. So in reality it's probably going to end up being $5 million. So, does that figure give you any pause? Is that a problem? >> That's a that's a pretty large grant
award. Um I don't recall exactly how much was in that particular program this last year that's also spread out statewide. So, um it would probably be a difficult amount to get that, you know, entire amount. Um, I think what we've kind of focused
on with a lot of the projects that we've pursued is just looking at multiple different uh opportunities out there and just trying to, you know, slowly get uh, you know, whatever project there is. >> Well, I think the the hope is that we
can put this alleyway on the fast fast track. Um, is that is that doable? >> Yeah. you know, fasttracking grants don't always go go together, but um you know,
which is why we focus on on grants as well as legislative funding just to try to um like I said, you know, legislative funding usually, you know, can happen a little bit quicker. >> Okay. >> Um then grants kind a little bit slower process. So,
>> thank you. Um, mayor, we just got finished trying to figure out how we're going to fund the fire department and we're doing everything we can to figure out how to make it work. And when I when
I hear projects like the amphitheater and the art studio, I'm wondering, have we forgot what we just talked about? Are we putting our taxpayer dollars in the wrong direction? So, either we're
serious about upgrading our fire department or we're not. We're either all in or we're not. And that's that's where I have a problem with
in layman terms fluff. And fluff is wants and our fire department is a need. And I think that should be our priority. >> Thank you. Anyone else? Go ahead, Don. >> So, I have direct experience dealing
with St. Joe on grants. I I know intimately how their grant programs work. Uh I've sat at this this count this DAS for seven years now and I have seen the success that Liberty Partners has had with getting us grants. I've
also talked with people that are on staff and have been on staff in the past and know what it's like to go try to get grants. If you want to another example of what grant funding looks like, look at the Shiitaka Brotherhood.
It's incomplete. Do we really want an alleyway project that's incomplete? We had the opportunity with the CRA who held public meetings and received public input and put a project list
together based on public input. Not just one meeting, but over the course of the last several years they've done this. So this isn't something that just popped up yesterday. But we have the opportunity to secure this funding
in a consistent and predictable way that we can then budget around it. Locks in everything. So from my perspective, from what I'm hearing, the vast majority of this bond, and Dan,
I think you're right. They're saying 3.5 to to 3.8. It's probably going to be more around four plus. So, the vast majority of this bond, 80% of this bond is going to go to the alleyway project. And you heard the the the director say
that that would allow them to potentially free up some money and reallocate money to go towards the fire department. I can't think of a better way to lock things in in a way that we know versus the alternative is a hope
and a prayer that we get grant appropriations. So for me, taking predictability and something that we know we're going to have versus the unknown, I know which way I'm going to go. So, I'm I'm completely comfortable with
issuing this bond with the caveat with the string attached to the bond that the vast majority of this be spent on the alleyway project and that if there's if there's money left over that it goes to the fire department or either projects that open
up money for the fire depro fire department and make that a condition of the bond. But if we do if we don't do the bond, we are basically sealing the fate of the CRA
and its funding, we we we step into the unknown versus we can vote on the bond tonight, lock that in, and lock in all the funding that comes along with it. So, I I really want my council members
to think about that that we can either take destiny into our own hands or we can take it on on the the hope and prayer that we get grants and appropriations and and let's be creative. Let's let's put a caveat on there about the the the
spending of the funds. Clay, is that possible? >> Council's got to approve the issuance. Certainly uh if you want to dictate that the bond is going to be used for the fire department, I think we would need to first vote to authorize the CRA to take that up. But if the caveat is that
you're saying that your expectation is that the priority of this money would go to the alleyway project prior to any of the other projects and that the balance of those funds that would then be used for projects could open up money to the fire department. That's consistent with what Mr. Hamilton's already said. He's
indicated that. And to be clear, the way this works, there's an alleyway project that has money funded not fully in the CRA's existing coffers. That money is not going to the debt service that's sitting in the bank. If the CRA completes the alleyway
project without touching that money, that money can therefore be reallocated because the project will been completed. Right now, they can't just move that money out of that account because they would have to delete the alleyway project from their plan. But once the alleyway project's complete, for
instance, if it's fully funded with the bond, then certainly they'll be able to reallocate that money anywhere within the plan they want. And if the council grants permission and the county commission does, then the renovations of the fire department are an allowable use of CRA money pursuant to Florida statute.
>> I would like to believe that there's a way to do this without getting $18 million in debt. I'd like to believe that we would put public safety first. It looks like to me we're just kicking the can down the road again on the fire department.
>> But but to to make a comment about the debt is to take that out of out of context. As the city manager just explained, the vast majority of that debt is paid for by the enterprise funds and is covered by the enterprise funds. >> Okay. So when you say most of the debt
is paid for by the Enifi Prize Sun Fund, let's let's be specific. Are we talking about water and sewer? >> Yes. >> Okay. Well, water and sewer is supposed to be replacing this hundred-year-old clay pipes and these asbests pipes that's feeding water into our home. That's supposed to be for
infrastructure. And I just have a problem with that. >> And I agree. That's why we shouldn't be taking $3.4 4 million out of the water and sewer funds to fund the general fund. It's that simple.
And without re religating everything else that we brought up over the past month, that was the direction that we were trying to go in some of that, but I don't want to get into that. We're now placed in a position based on our decisions that we made recently that we've got to look at other things, too.
minimizing our exposure and liabilities in that downtown district with those businesses is what the CRA is about with the down with the alleyways and streets project. The second thing is we've chosen that we're going to engage full force forward with our fire department. So those renovations and repairs, they
have to be made. The thing with the CRA, they're willing to give us a sure bet on the fact that we're going to secure some funding and we're going to get these projects done. I have belief and I have faith that they will do that. They've already got some of this funding
secured. I don't have faith in me going and asking someone else for that money that has just recently went through two phases of government shutdowns to where you can't guarantee that a they will be open for business, b that they will secure any funding to keep their
existing commitments going or c anything else that we want to bring to them at that point or much less going to another elected body going, "Hey, will you give me funding for this so that we can continue to go forward?" that may not be
there the next meeting or the next year as far as support for that. So, this is a sure bet on funding our alleyways and street project, securing our commitment to our citizens and our downtown businesses and our fire department for getting a need of renovations that need
to take place and I support them in that. >> Yeah. Um, can I just share that here's the fiscal year 24 audited financial statements. So you are correct. Uh Kobe's correct also the government
activity 2.5 million is our debt and the business activities which is water, sewer, uh natural gas uh 11.2 in debts for a total of 3.722 is what we currently have at 24. Now I believe we also may have borrowed
slightly in 25. I can't recall but I think we did. Um so that's it's a little slightly higher than that. Um, but the majority is in the enterprise funds versus uh the government fund is 2.5. But with that being said, I want to I
want to raise my own uh concerns for the record. Um, and I have to say I love learning from the book of Proverbs and you know that book of wisdom warns against guaranteeing someone else's debt in four different occasions. But you know the CRA is asking the city to
guarantee their debt and I have a problem because the attorneys representing both the CRA which is seeking the guarantee and the city which is being asked to assume the financial risk. So for me, these are competing interests that are vers adverse to each
other and it raises a concern about whether the council is receiving independent advice on the matter. And I believe as one council member that we should have the benefit of separate unbiased legal guidance before we even make a decision to take on the long-term
financial obligation of this magnitude. I'm also concerned about the financial impact of the proposed guarantee, especially because the funding source is under fire and consideration to be eliminated at the state level. There's nothing we can do about that until it happens. It happens, but we need to kind
of guide what we're doing appropriately. The proposal involves a high interest rate for the borrowing, which could extend the life and continue to divert revenues away from the s uh city's general operations. If the uh revenues do get eliminated as
projected, the city could be placed, I think it's going to paralyze, it's going to make us struggle to meet our other financial obligations as they come due, which is going to directly affect our residents. And I want to say as a CPA and my 40 years of financial experience,
I'm really against the borrowing because it's going to our ability to move forward based on what we just did on Monday, saying this is the direction we want to go. We want to keep our fire department and we want to move forward, but we are going to have to regroup because we only have a limited source
right now of revenue. So, for those reasons, I respectfully motion that the city obtain independent legal counsel before we take any action on this matter. >> Can you explain what that means? Independent counsel like
>> Okay. Can I respond to something she said because there's a huge misstatement in what she said that needs to be directed. >> These are my opinions. These are not >> All right. Go right ahead. >> Thank you, mayor. So, first off, there is absolutely zero guarantee being sought by the CRA for this debt
issuance. Councilwoman said the CRA is asking for the city to guarantee this debt. That's not true. In fact, on two separate occasions, I quoted statute 16387 regarding the city's obligations, specifically subsection 5 if the CRA
issues debt. I'm going to read verbatim for that statute now for at least the third time in a council meeting. Revenue bonds issued under the provisions of this part shall not be deemed to constitute a debt, liability, or
obligation of the public body or the state or any political subdivision thereof, or a pledge of the faith and credit of the public body or the state or any political subdivision thereof, but shall be payable solely from the
revenues provided. Therefore, so I'm going to stop right there. That's the first sentence. State law makes it abundantly clear. We are not pledging, guaranteeing, or obligated to this. Next sentence. All such revenue bonds shall
contain on the face thereof a statement to the effect that the agency shall not be obligated to pay the same or the interest there except from revenues from the community redevelopment agency held for that purpose. and that neither the
faith and credit nor the taxing power of the governing body or of the state or of any political subdivision thereof is pledged to the payment of the principle of or interest on such bonds. So the bond itself has to has a statement saying the city isn't there. So Mr.
Hamilton, I want you to help clarify. Is there any ask as part of this that the city guarantee these bonds? >> No. >> Is it your and this resolution that is on this doc this d says it's being done in conformity with
this statute. Florida law says there is not a guarantee. It's not being asked. Now, I completely agree with Councilwoman Evelyn. If the CRA was asking us to violate the Florida statute and self-pledge or backs stop or cosign or guarantee, yeah, you probably wouldn't
need to be checking into that. But that's not what's being asked. So, her whole predicate question here is that. But to make it simple, she's saying, "Hey, you want separate legal advice?" I'm sitting here as a city attorney.
The CRA is paying bond counsel to address this bond and draft it. Bond counsel sitting right there in the back. If you don't want my opinion, and since I've said this three times and have been told three times, apparently I don't know how to read the Florida statutes, maybe we should ask bond counsel that
CRA is paying to say whether or not that's an accurate recitation of Florida statute. But it seems that my opinion is being dismissed for the third time in a row, despite the fact the statute says that and nor is the CRA asking it. But again, I I don't
know how to make that any more plain and simple. But you do have independent counsel who is advising the CRA right there in the back of the room right now to ask. >> Would y'all Would y'all like to hear from her? >> I'd like to finish what I had on the table before Mr. Atinson. >> I just answer my question. I'm going to do it right now. Would you like to hear
from her when you get done? >> I'm not so sure, but that she can answer the questions that I have. >> Yeah, she may not. >> I mean, my my my take on this from a financial perspective is adverse to what this what what is happening. So, I'm
concerned uh from the city's perspective, I'm asking for an independent legal opinion that goes beyond that goes beyond council issue. So, if if nothing if there's not a problem and you're reading just properly, then there shouldn't be a
problem with the motion that I made for an independent. >> What are you asking for an opinion on though, Councilwoman? Because I've not offered an opinion as to anything other than you have to hold the public hearing. These are competing interests of what they're wanting to do. Borrowing versus what I see from a financial
perspective from the city. This is going to have the right to vote it down. >> This is going to the city's ability to pay its own liabilities as their liabilities come. >> That's wholly inaccurate under the statute. Councilwoman, >> I'm not quoting the statutes, but I can read financial statements, Mr. Atinson,
and here they are. >> Yeah. >> The city's revenue. I think it's made made abundantly clear what the statute says here and you know you're contrary to that. So I think that we need to let well enough alone. >> Mayor,
the city's still going to be in if if this passes the city's still going to be in $18 million worth of debt. >> Actually, no, sir. Let me clarify that. The city will remain between 12 and $13 million in debt. That is the city's debt. The CRA will be in debt $5
million. >> But what if the C CRA goes away? >> Well, that statute I just read says it is not our obligation. >> The entire amount >> is not our obligation. >> That's out of statute. >> That is the statute. It absolves us of
liability. Now, you do, and we've talked about this, Mr. Coast, and all parents, I appreciate you taking the time to go over this with me. I'll go ahead and say this. Yes. The statute also expressly contemplates that you cannot cut the CRA's funding to a point where it can't
cover the debt. You are prohibited from doing that. >> And then we're liable for that debt. >> No. It just says you can't cut their You're not allowed to eliminate their money where they can't pay their debts. >> And if they can't pay their debt, are we on the hook? >> No. No. >> Oh my god. >> No. I I don't know how I mean this is
the third time I've addressed it. It is black and white. But what I would say is the expected debt service in the room, please. >> $700,000, right, Mr. Hamilton? >> Sorry. It's about $700,000 a year as the debt service. >> And how much money did the CRA show as
anticipated revenue this year? >> Ballpark? Yes. >> More than that? >> Yeah, it was uh I think with the city and county, city and county was uh closer to like 1.9. >> All right. So, you're at 1.8 million.
So, Councilman Cosen, hypothetically, they owe 700,000. They're bringing in a million9. That money probably goes up, but let's assume it stays flat. There's an additional million2, give or take, of money that they have.
Now, the city goes back, for instance, down in the Tampa St. Pete area, they scale back their CRA twice over several years from 95 to 85 to 75%. As long as they're able to maintain their debt service and they don't violate any loan covenants of the bank,
that's well within your prerogative. And even then, you still aren't obligated to do so. What you can't do is keep them from making their debt payments by going below 700,000. >> Yes. >> How much interest, Mr. Hamilton, is over the life of the loan on the borrowing of
the $5 million? How much interest will we pay back? For some reason, I'm thinking it was a 10%. >> Thank you. >> Yes. Good evening. German with PFM, financial advisor to the city. Uh with the five 5 million if it stays
outstanding for the entire life of the loan, uh total interest is 885,000. >> I'm sorry. 850. >> Just under 900,000. >> Okay. And what is the life of the loan? It is through uh September 1, 2033.
>> And how many? So what is this year? This is uh >> what's the percentage on that, sir? >> That's a 3.99% coupon. >> Yeah. >> I'm sorry. How much was it? >> It's a 3.9 >> 3.99%. >> 4%.
>> It does it vary? Does it stagger? Does it go up? That's not a fixed rate, correct? >> It is. It is a fixed rate with a with an option for the CRA to refund for savings or to restructure in two and a half years. >> So there is a call option built into that.
>> And so why do they need this city council if they've got their own board and they're their own authority? Why why are we having to go along with this? >> The state the state statute requires it. Councilwoman the state statute says that the debt issuance of a CRA must be
approved by the local governing body. Uh I will admit there is a resolution dated in 2018 where the city council gave broad authority for the CRA to issue debt. Uh it was my opinion along with bond council's opinion that despite that
general statement that it was the most prudent course of action to present this to the city council to give you the opportunity to vote up or down to one assure statutory compliance and to also make sure that the lenders who will be putting this money out know they have full assurance of those funds and there
will be no challenge or issue. So we're actually bringing this to you more out of an abundance of caution giving the city more option. But I would note that the city council in 2018 when it created CRA did specifically grant them the authority to borrow money. But it is my belief that it is in the best interest
of the CRA and of the city that this be presented to this council for an up or down vote. >> So if we if if this fails then can the CRA just go ahead and borrow anyway on their own? >> Absolutely not. >> Or they just wouldn't. We're saying no they wouldn't.
>> They can't. They cannot. So if you vote it down, they can't borrow the money. >> All right. >> Yes. >> Clay, what what exactly are they asking in the form of a motion? >> It's a motion. So the motion before you,
the public hearing is to vote on the resolution that is presented before you. So it is resolution 2026-03. The motion would be to approve or deny that resolution which would issue which would allow the bond issuance in the
amount of $5 million of tax exempt bonds. If the city wishes to add any specific attachments to that about prioritizing of the projects or otherwise you're welcome to add that. That's not part of their ask but you have to approve it. So strings attached.
You are the body that can attach strings. Mayor, >> before we get any further, um I have a list of uh concerns here and and I've had conversations with with
with Rob. Um I've had conversations with with with Clay with Kobe. Um, so one going back to what you said, Councilman Cosen, earlier about that we just decided to keep the fire department
and we have to figure out how to pay that. You're absolutely right. I agree with you about that. And the but but here's something else I see. You know, tonight we voted uh to approve the contract for the fire assessment study
unanimously, right? So, I hope that shows the public and the county and everyone else that we we are committed to finding a way to f to fund our fire department. We're we're going to do that. We have decided to do that as a as
a council. I'm I'm extremely optimistic about that. our our Wednesday um strategic planning workshop with Raph Telis uh who is drafting our uh strategic plan. The most productive thing since I have been on this council
that our council has has done and worked cooperatively to achieve it was it was a great day. It was a dayong workshop. And so we found out in that workshop there have we have a lot of things we have probably more in common uh as far as
where we would our vision for this city than we might have thought we did. And and that came at a good time two days after that Monday night when we decided to keep the fire department. So I'm optimistic and and I want the public and and everyone watching this to be to be
optimistic that we're trying to do the best thing to fund things. The fire department is important. I have a concern that, you know, once the alleyway project, I heard tonight the once the alleyway project is done, at some point down the road, money will be
reallocated to handle to to do the fire department uh renovations or or whatever that turns out to to be at that point in time. Part of the reason I was adamant about keeping the fire department was because they've been putting up with bad living
conditions and quarters. uh in their workplace that has been deteriorating for quite some time and I hate to see that delayed any further uh in any way whatsoever. Uh but we have to hustle in everything we do. Everything we do,
whether it's fire assessment or whatever, we have to hustle to to get these things done because the clock is ticking with the growth. We know that. And this council, we've been accused of being short uh shortsighted uh and and but I can I can tell you that that is
just the most inaccurate comment I have heard in these chambers. this this council is is very far-sighted looking well down the road beyond the year that we'll still be sitting here. And so we're I I know this council is working hard and I know where their hearts are,
but I have cons concerns about um this this thing. I understand that we are not inheriting any debt with this. Um I understand that. I go to the alleyway project. That cost has increased since the
conversation first started. And of course, as time takes drags on, costs do go up. We all understand that. And that's that's the haste I'm talking about. We have to get things done and make decisions because the more we debate it and kick things down the road, the more cost goes up. So now we're
looking at three to upwards of $4 million for the alleyway project alone to do it like we'd like to do it. Nobody sitting here wants to do anything halfway. I can tell you that. So, we want to do it well, but we're looking at $4 million. We're asking for $5 million
dollar bond issuance. That doesn't leave a whole lot for for much else. The amphitheater, when the conversation first started, we were talking between three and $4 million for the amphitheater project. Now, the amphitheater project is talking5 to6
million. By the time it's actually breaking ground and completed, those costs might be well upwards of $6 million. We we don't have any way of anticipating that. So, we're we're looking at, you know, upwards $6 million
potentially cap. We're thinking right now today with today's cost, $4 million for the aloay price. That's $10 million. We're asking for a five million. They're asking for a $5 million bond. So, I'm I'm concerned with how we're going to get the gap. In
the meantime, this city council, we um somebody mentioned that we might be sealing the fate of the of the CRA if we don't do the bond. Um
but we might be sealing the fate of the city if we do. uh in that depending on what happens with property taxes in Tallahassee, we might be talking about
layoffs again or no raises or, you know, or or not being able to fund the fire department, which we have now committed to do. So, those are my concerns. I've expressed those. This is this is not a I'm not pulling a card out here that hasn't been discussed before. I've had
these reservations and concerns all along. Um, but I'm not a person that thinks the CRA should be done away with or anything like that. I think the CRA can can be functional and do what it was
created to do. Uh, we just have to find how how to get that done. But this bond kind of scares me for a number of reasons. and one is is the is is the property tax reduction uh bills that who knows what will happen with that. Um
so I I wonder how other projects can be completed. uh the streetscape downtown uh the main street main street we're main street city uh main street USA main street Florida but we've been talking about streetscape and wayfinding signs
and and and pavers and bike racks and bench all these things that a main street city has that stamp that that look that appearance all across this nation and we've talked about it but we haven't
gotten there and I don't see we're anywhere close to doing other than one block at a time paving and making parking lot uh spaces without doing the other necessary work on that one block
that is necessary to to be done. So we just um we sometimes rush through these things without thinking but this is this is not a minor thing to consider here. Um, I don't I just don't want to see us on the hook for figuring out the same
budget issues we had last year in our workshops, scratching our heads. What are we going to do? We We get our our departments to cut their budgets, cut their budgets. How much more can they they cut, right? And and we don't we don't know. We need more employees. We're we're short eight positions right
now that we didn't fill. those eight positions and the work that those eight people did have been absorbed by other employees that are now doing duties that they were not hired nor paid to do. And so that that is a problem I don't want
to see continue. Um, as I mentioned, we we've got to fund our fire department. We have to provide employee raises. We have to be able to hire additional employees to accommodate the the service needs that we have for a growing city. Um the amphitheater I
mentioned in the past uh there is no feasibility study as to whether the public would tolerate it. Um I have met I met Friday at Mr. Hamilton's request with uh the DAG architect um to you know
discuss the sound engineering and that kind of stuff which in itself is down the road yet and and it's not fully uh completed. So there's a lot of unanswered questions that we have. I have no doubt that they would try to address that but my concern is in a
residential area. I was I was one of the the first time I ever met with the architects and with Josh Irwin over this project. My concern was spending this amount of money of tax city taxpayer dollars.
Something has to be done for it to generate revenue. We can't expend that kind of money for something like this with the infrastructure needs we have and it not generate money. So they have done Rob has done work on on trying to figure that out but it's all
hypothetical basically the uh Buffalo Rock thing fantastic work on his part to to uh maybe secure that that type of uh sponsorship and and funding. Um and and that's that's that's just good stuff
right there. But the hypotheticals of revenue from concerts, one, will the public in that historic district, residential area, will they withstand frequent concerts? I've heard anything from it would take to generate the revenue they're talking about, it would
take a a concert every weekend. Well, one, you're not going to be able to book quality concerts every single weekend of the year. Um, but and I don't think that's the plan anyway. Um I think we discussed the other day one one per
month or so. Um so my question was who's going to manage that? Who's going to do the booking? Who's who you know the city has no personnel to do that kind of thing. Those things have to be worked out. So that's why I say it's hypothetical as to what revenue it will
generate. And so that concerns me with the the worry that we have about property taxes being being reduced and what's going to happen to our city our city revenue from that. And I know it doesn't make up a whole the majority of our budget and all that. I get it.
>> I need a >> but um well okay. Um, so the feasibility study, the management of concerts, how often they would be, parking, all those sort of things, uh, are all all really
they're they're guessed at, but they're they're really hypothetical. Um, so that that's that's the majority of my concerns. And I have one other con concern that kind of kind of troubles me a little bit. We
we're being asked to do this without having been presented what this thing even looks like. Uh at this point, I have seen it. I saw it Friday. Um but that is not going to be presented to this council until the uh 23rd
in our next city council meeting. So, you know, I think we're we're asking a lot here. uh maybe of to approve this when we don't know what exactly we're looking at. If we
didn't like the design, for example, we might be if we decided it didn't fit whatever whatever the public wants or doesn't want in the lakeyard or what the council wants to see or doesn't want to see there as far as architecture and design uh or cost. Um
we we don't we're not privy to that information at this point to make this decision in in my opinion. But that's all. Thank you. >> Okay. The reference to the fire assessment. We can't fund the fire fire assessment
uh the the fire department based on a fire assessment that would pay 100% of it because it would be astronomical and too hard too much of a hardship on our citizens. The fire assessment is to augment, not to cover it. So
like down south, they're paying $1,000 a household uh on 3A and their fire department has a $90 million uh a year budget. We can't touch that and we can't afford to pay that kind of fire assessment. And so in order to make this
as palatable as possible for our citizens and our business owners, uh the fire assessment's going to have to be something that people north of the bay can afford. Uh the next thing is um time
and time again uh we have asked that don't do the 95% uh advalorum uh increased ad valorum to the CRA and we asked that it go to the
minimum amount which is 50 or 55% were repeatedly turned down uh the $1.11.2 $2 million out of our general fund to the CRA. Um, so here's how that's affecting us. Uh, I remember vividly when Kobe and
Danielle called each and every one of us into their office with when we were talking about when the council was saying, "We're going to give all this money to the CRA." And then when it came budget time, we're cutting employees,
we're cutting positions, we're cutting uh we're reducing city services, we're not able to give them a raise. All of this stuff is a is a product of Danielle and Kobe warning us that if we give this much money to the CRA, there's going to
be negative repercussions. So for example, uh we had a workshop here the other day and one of the things that we really need is to have real real uh real time lot real time data on exactly where
our money is. Now we've got the software system and the hardware system to make this happen in place right now. What we don't have is the people in place in the finance department because we had to eliminate positions
>> that go that are the data entry people to be able to get that. >> Uh if I'm not 100% correct on these facts, the bottom line is we were warned by Kobe and Danielle that if we went forward with this CRA thing, it's going to have an adverse effect on the city.
And in my opinion, and this is just my opinion, and all of us have one, I think we would be a lot better off if we just completely eliminated the CRA. >> Okay. Well, Dan, you brought that vote up a couple times and it fails.
>> I'm not putting it up for a vote. We're having >> Keep pounding on. >> Yeah. And it just And I And I'll keep pounding on it. Amy, >> you know, if the property tax does go away, which none of us know what's going to happen with that, but I just wanted to help you, Mr. Cosen. I mean, I think
you had said something uh about this. Would the city still have to pay for it? I think to make it clear what we're saying is the city has to fund let's just say that the funding mechanism goes
away. The city has to fund the CRA at a minimum at that debt level before we can do think of anything on the general operating fund. So if that funding mechanism goes away, we first have to give them whatever they need to pay this debt. And that's
problematic for me. That's why I'm saying it's detrimental to the general fund. Uh because the C the city really is paying for it because we have to first fund the CRA before we can start the budget process for the general operations because they have to be funded at their level of borrowing
>> out of your Avalorum budget. You're exactly right. Now we don't have to reach into water and sewer. We don't have to go into other revenues. We do have to fund them out of our Avalor budget. What Councilman Hein said there is an accurate recitation of what would happen. Is this vote to turn down the $5
million loan? >> Well, it's a vote to approve or deny it. >> There's no motion second. >> There's no motion on the floor right now. So, whenever you get whenever somebody makes the motion, you'll know what it's for. >> I made a motion, but there was no second. >> There was this time. >> Okay. Could I make a motion that uh
we deny the $5 million bond? >> Second. >> Yeah. I'll make a substitute motion that we table this until after we have been presented the additional information from the CRA about the other projects. >> Second.
>> All right. >> Vote on the vote of whether we're going to substitute first. >> How about my motion for getting independent legal advice on this? >> Fail for lack of a second. >> For lack of second now,
>> Mr. Mayor, >> it's a little late for that. Yeah. >> Okay. We're his vot. The vote is to substitute the motion to table. If that passes, we'll vote on it. If it fails, we go straight to a vote on the motion
to deny. So, this is to substitute in tableabling is the primary motion. >> And until when? >> Till after we've received the presentation from the CRA and had the special meeting. Okay. >> Joint workshop.
>> All right. So, we have a motion in second. Uh questions or comments about the motion? >> Yes. Please repeat it so I know which yes or no. I need to understand what we're voting on. >> So, your is to table until after the joint workshop and the presentation that
they are scheduled to give to us later this month. So, it would effectively table it until uh March. If you vote yes on this, Councilwoman Evelyn, that becomes the primary motion and then you have to vote on it. If you vote no, it fails to become the primary motion.
Councilman Kosan's Cosen's motion to deny then becomes the vote. >> So, this is just whether you're taking up the tableabling instead. >> Okay. Any other comments on that motion? >> Yes. >> Go ahead. >> Um Harrison,
>> mayor, I have Mr. Mr. Harrison. Um >> Melinda Henderson >> who who's already we've already closed public order point of order. We've already closed public comment. Mr. Mayor not when we have the motion >> was part of the public hearing. >> So yeah, all the comment was taken
advance all closed but now that we have a motion they still closed. >> That's that's your discretion. Mayor, >> we have a motion and a second on >> tableabling. So there's no comments >> from the council on that. >> Yes. You you debate them both. Yes, sir. Let's let him go first.
>> Okay. So, um, somewhere concerned with tableabling is is this I mean, if we if we table it, kick it down, we're asking the county, we have an ask on the on the agenda for tomorrow night to help with our fire department. If we kick this down the road here, here's my here's
here's my concern with with tableabling it. The fact that that information wasn't brought before the ask for the bond issuance is kind of troubling. I mean, this could have been done in reverse. So, you know, I I feel a
tremendous amount of pressure for I asked a a qu a question of Kobe earlier about the the budget workshop dates and whether that March date was soon enough, da da da. I mean, I I feel the pressure of this t of of of of this budget and
these talks so that they're timely so we get this thing figured out. Our employees are counting on us uh to get this figured out. So, kicking it down the road just backs everything up. Um I I wish this information had been brought to us before uh we were asked to
consider this bond issuance. I don't see um I don't see the pants on fire thing with this day uh as far as approving this tonight. Um I mean but but it's here before the
information is in our laps. Now I say that because I asked for a lot of information to be brought to us to consider over the fire department. So that information is not before us and it's going to be in the next council meeting. So it could have been done the
other way around but it wasn't. >> Okay. >> Melinda Henderson, resident of the city. I don't know all the ins and outs of the law and all the ins and outs of the budget, but just sitting back here
listening to you all, this is what I have perceived. First of all, you voted for their uh and approved their strategic plan. They have brought things before you that you have denied.
Now you want something and they bring it before you and they have a way to fund it because you want it. They've changed their whole objectives all around to to do something
that you want. Somehow the public can't win, they can't win, and you're certainly not winning. >> Thank you, >> Randy Lightner. Li ght neer. Um,
something the attorney said, if the alleyway funds are moved out of the alleyway, then the alleyway project is basically dead. Is that what you said? So the way it works, excuse me, make sure my microphone's on. So the way it
works, Miss Lightner, is when the CRA had funds last year that were carry forward funds, those have to be placed and dedicated into a specific fund account for use. >> Correct. >> That's what happened. Because of the nature of those monies and how they got moved over, what happens is that we are
required to keep those funds in there until we complete the project or until we eliminate the project from our CRA development plan. Okay? So if they complete the project through other method and that money is still sitting in that general account it can then be reallocated otherwise the only way to
pull it out would be to kill the project all together. >> Okay. Is that so for any projects? >> It's specifically for that one that's been funded through that carry forward money. >> Okay. So any other money that may have been in another fund last year is is fine. The reason
>> carry forward money. No, I'm saying that what you would be talking about is money in this year's budget that was just placed into this year's budget. The CRA is free to make budget amendments just like the county, the city, or any other governmental agency can do. It's the carry forward money that was not spent that is then specifically allocated
cannot be deallocated. >> Okay. Well, let me let me tell you why I'm asking because I'm not sure. This was last year when I was told that it was there. Uh my understanding is there was money in the fire department for fire department fund to assist the fire
department and that money has now been moved. >> So is the fire department dead? >> Let's let Mr. I don't believe that's accurate, but I'll defer to Mr. Hamilton if he knows something different than there was never a dedicated fire department fund because we were waiting. >> Okay. But you told me there was you told
me that you had fire department money set aside. >> No, I said there's money in other accounts that we can move into the fire department. I never said there's a fire department. You told me there's money setting aside for the fire department. >> I said there's money. >> It's ready to go and you're waiting on the Mr. Mayor. >> Could you get her to ask a question? Let him answer. Okay. No argument.
>> All right. Maybe he didn't. He probably did not say a fund. Okay. So, I don't put words. >> Your time's up. >> Clay talked almost all of my time. That's very unfair. And And that's fine, but you guys didn't stop the clock. I'm almost done. And I'm not trying to stir
up trouble. I'm trying to clarify and make sure of what's going on. So, let's say they don't get the bond tonight and the CRA decides, well, we've got to spend our money here now. We can't help the fire department. Are are
we still going to be able to >> right now? The CRA cannot spend any money on the fire department because this council has not authorized it to, nor is the board of county commissioners. So, as we stand here right now, until this council takes action to authorize it to be able to use money for the fire department, they cannot
>> cannot either way as of right now. >> Correct. Okay. >> Okay. And the the last thing and then I'm going to sit down and be quiet. The last thing I'm going to say is there's a lot of people watching this meeting tonight and they're going to
have a lot to say if a bond issuance goes through tomorrow and tableabling is just as good as saying yes. So, I'm going to leave it there. Your decision from there. Thank you. >> Uh yeah, come on.
>> Uh Bruce Campbell work. I wasn't going to speak, but I'm with you. I think it probably could have been done a different way. I think we do ourselves a disservice if y'all don't sit down in a meeting with us and truly discuss this because there's been a lot of misstatement of fact, a lot of misstatement of law and you've got a
lawyer that's telling you what it is. So, it's my opinion or it's I think the law clay is that they fund us and that that avalorum no matter what happens is protected. >> Correct. >> So, you could potentially turn down the tax money. So if Tallahassee gets rid of
it and you didn't pass this, this is all stuff y'all need to do anyway. So it's up to you if you want to do it efficiently and economically. >> Thank you. Mr. Curry, did you have your hand up a minute ago? >> Mr. Graham did. >> Mr. You. >> You didn't. Okay. All right. U
>> All right. How about you, Mr. Graham? >> Okay. Go ahead. >> Could we ask Mr. Hamilton back to the podium for a moment? I'd like to know how many accounts do does the CRA have? I'd have to go back and look at actually I can pull it up right now. So there's
different accounts we have. So we have separate accounts for the amphitheater alleyway and streetscapes. Hang on. I'll pull it up and go through it real quick. >> Water mayor. Is that not in the budget that she continues to wave around over there? >> No. It's not. These are 24 financial
statements, but I'm >> sure it is. >> Well, it's not, Todd. So, >> all right. So, we got uh let's see. One, two, three, four. Do you want me to name them off? >> No, I was just looking for V. You know, you either have three or four, but I'm just curious. Are each of them got cash?
>> Between 10 and 15. The ones I have the most right now is the amphitheater, the alleyway. Um, let's see. uh insurance, other professional services,
blighted parcel acquisition, uh 27 Crescent Drive, which is the Cultural Arts Center. >> So, are these like cash accounts or these just little project accounts that you've got set up, but they're not funded. >> They're project accounts that have money in them. Okay. From this fiscal year, or
that was carried over from other >> That's sufficient. That That's all I was looking for. But can I ask you another question? >> Sure. I don't recall what what it's called, but that adopted master plan that y'all put together and we adopted also is the fire department in there at all as any
project that from the initial >> not named specifically. No, but there is but there is a thing that says public safety initiatives. There is a catchall provision that was put in there intentionally that allows for community policing initiatives, fire department if
approved by the city council and the county commission pursuant to statute. So it's already in the plan so we don't have to do a plan amendment if you ever do approve it. >> Could I'm sorry, Mr. Attorney, could you please tell us one more time city police and what I mean? So there are so the
statute allows for certain public safety issues, >> community policing initiatives is probably the biggest one. Chief came and talked to us at a CRA meeting about some flock cameras that the CRA has addressed to help. But when you're doing something like the fire department, we've got to
go get permission from the city council and the fire department. So while we can help with certain things without coming to the council, the CRA can also not do certain things without your permission. So there is a broad part of the plan that allows for public safety. So I wanted to be
very clear. This would not be a plan amendment if you authorized it. >> So if if the CRA found it within their purview, they could adopt something for the fire department. I I mean I know Mr. Hamilton comes forward and says that so
>> they need your they need your approval for the renovations of the fire department because of the nature of the facility and the building and the way the statute's worded. You will have to authorize that as will the board of county commissioners. The CRA on its own cannot do it without your blessing and the BCC blessing.
>> But that also, help me if I'm not mistaken. Uh that was on our CIP. So you couldn't do that for a few years. >> We can do the renovations immediately to the existing one because what was on the CIP was the new fire department, not renovation of the old. It was a new fire
department south of I 10. So that we have to let roll off two more years. Now we're one year into it. So, we got about 24 more months or at least two fiscal years before we can >> That's all I had. Thank you. >> And I just want to add again, we can do budget amendments now with money that was put in this year to reallocate those
funds to the fire department. So, there is money available through budget amendments that we can use for the fire department, >> right? And you guys can do that all you can do that every two weeks or every month when you meet. Correct. I mean, you don't need us to do that. So even though it might be here today, it could
be gone >> the next month. >> Yes. >> Theoretically. >> Yeah. Okay. >> I just want to point out one more thing. The uh the amphitheater project was presented at a public meeting >> through our meeting which is available online was available for you guys to be
at. So I'm not I don't like the idea of that information wasn't available. Do I think you all need to hear it from the from DAG? Absolutely. But I also want to point out this is not about the amphitheater. This is about getting the bond so that
we can then have our joint meetings and figure out what the needs are. We've talked at length alleyway. It's the one thing I think everybody sitting up here agrees on. $5 million bond, $4 million, $5 million alleyway. Oh, look at that. It's done. Magic. And then we have money that's in
that fund now or in other funds. We can move. Let's help the fire department. Cool. Now, what do we have left over? That's the approach I'd like to take. This is where I the last thing I said was conversations are important. Communication is important. But if we
shut down, lock out, don't have conversations until we get to these meetings, that's where we have problems. >> Thank you. Yes, sir. >> Don O Graham, and I uh 100% agree with what he just said. And uh Councilman um
by kicking the can down the curve. know if we delay and uh can't move forward, we going to kick the can in the hole and once we get in the hole, it's going to be too late. So, I strongly wish that if
you don't agree with Yes. meet with us, talk with us. We want to meet with our our city leaders. You know, we we're every week or every two weeks or whatever taking our up our term as city residents. We want to meet with you guys
to get this resolved because yeah, our main one of our main interests is the fire department and other concerns. But we need to meet with y'all. So, I'm 100% behind my director. Just meet with us. That's all we ask. Meet
with us. Don't deny us. Just meet with us. >> Thank you. Thank you for come up. Councilwoman to clarify uh the CRA based on their audit does they pull cash. So they have one one cash account then they have in they have
inside accounting but we have individual funds. The CRA does pull cash. >> Yes sir. been southern. I'm not going to get the last two hours of my life back, but I think I think that y'all need to talk to the bound council
>> and ask her exactly what this situation is. >> I'd be glad to. You want to come up maybe share with just real quick? Trying to get educated here tonight. and basically just
>> tell us what our responsibilities are and what their responsibilities are. >> Name. >> Good. Good evening. My name is Joe Linda Herring and I'm with the law firm of Bryant Miller Olive in Tallahassee, Florida. Um, I guess the questions that you guys have been having is what is the
city's responsibility for this CRA debt? The city has no financial obligation as it relates to the CRA debt. The statute does require the city to approve the CRA
borrowing, but there's no obligation on the city for that debt. So, I don't know if you guys have any other questions for me while I'm here. >> Yes. >> I don't have a question, but it's just a statement so that it's very clear where
I'm coming from. Mhm. >> In the event that this passes and the funding mechanism which we use to support their annual operation goes away then we have to find other sources because at a minimum we have to fund
them for whatever they borrow. There in lies where the city does have an obligation from a financial perspective because we're going to be 750 in the hole before we even start the budget process in the event that that funding mechanism goes away. That's
that's >> they do a great job. I'm not here to say that they don't do a great job or we don't need them, but at this point in time in the financial stability of the city and for the city residents,
it we have to consider our priorities over >> So, we are watching that legislation just like everyone is across the state of Florida. Um, if for some reason they do that and it's related to debt that is
currently outstanding, like yours would be prior to the legislation being enacted, which would be July 1st, the state would have to come up with some other source of revenue or they could be sued for impairment of contract. Um, a
lot of the um the plans that are out there now exclude certain entities. Um, so again, we're just watching it very closely like everyone else. Um, but there would be >> and and to your point, that takes time.
It takes time to watch it. It takes time to implement it. It will take time for us to come up with. We might have to advance them something before the state ever figures out how they're going to >> Yeah. But but what we would hope that
that legislation would happen in this session that's going on now, any bills that are going through the legislative session right now would be effective July 1st of 2026. But so so is what you're am I to
understand what you're saying is they're going to immediately find some mechanism for us to fund them at the 750,000 borrowing level if that would disappear >> or they could exclude it. So I I know that you know there there are about 10
different proposals out there. Um and one of the things is you know people hear there's no property taxes. That doesn't really mean that there's no property taxes. There are certain entities that are excluded and they will
still be able to levy property tax to keep their operations going. And so we don't know which proposal will pass. So we're all watching them. >> And is you saying July 1st, but isn't this referendum going to be on the November ballot to vote on? So it's not
going to take impact in July 1st? Well, yes, it will be on the November ballot, but it would have to pass and it would be effective July >> the following July. >> It would be it would be right. >> Yeah. Not this July. >> Right. >> So, we would still have to figure out
how we're going to fund them. >> Well, but it would not be effective in the in your next fiscal year because your fiscal year will start October 1st. Correct. >> Yes. And that's where that that's where in lie we don't have
>> right now we're struggling to even do our basic operational needs for our entire government let alone to put them first then that puts everything else >> second place and that's my concern. >> No understood and but also understand
remember too that the county will also be contributing as well. >> Okay. Anyone else? Thank you so much, >> mayor. >> Oh, that's okay. Um, you know, in the
past the council has discussed reducing the CRA percentage and what have you and and we decided that was, you know, maybe not the thing to do, what have you. But, you know, the landscape has changed considerably since this conversation
first started. you know, we we are now concerned with what the state's going to do with property taxes. Um, and if if this bond is issued and we get in dire straits, if if we are um severely
impacted by property tax reductions, we can't gain any adorum from the CRA. We cannot change percentage. We cannot change the map. we can do none of that once his bond is issued. Um, now, you
know, when we were discussing the fire department and how to fund it, you know, uh, or turn it over to the count the sheriff's department, you know, the conversation about this potential legislation of reducing property taxes was relevant then, but, now somehow it doesn't seem to be relevant in this
conversation, but it is very relevant. >> Um, so that hasn't changed. Uh, I'm still concerned about those reductions as I was with the fire department discussion and I'm equally concerned with it as far as this CRA discussion. I
see the value in in doing these projects. However, I don't see the value in it when we not sure how we're going to continue uh we're peacemealing. Uh Tim spoke earlier, we we're having to peacemeal grants and funding to do the
fluent line. We're we're we're we're we are struggling to figure out how to pay for some of these major infrastructure things that need to be done. And and when you when you when we look at building a 5 to6 million dollar amphitheater that the public may or may
not tolerate and then we have to shut that process down, that potential hypothetical revenue that looks so great. I mean, cuz I I I I had my ears open in that conversation with them Friday. If if
that can offset these potential revenue gaps that we may be facing by property tax reductions, if that revenue from the amphitheater can offset it, you know, maybe we have something to consider, but we don't we don't know that. There's so many things not in place to figure that
out, the management of ticket sales and what have you. Um, and so, you know, I just I just have real real concerns about this. We we have, you know, we can't change the percentage if we have to out of necessity down the road. The
advalor uh from CRA um and and it doesn't address our jobs, our raises, any unnecessary unforeseen infrastructure uh things, water, sewer, all that. So, and and if I can on that ju just
just for so everybody puts people mind to ease, you know, raising fire taxes of any sort, you know, people don't like that. But, you know, the fire assessment that the county has right now, if you break that $75 fire assessment
down to 365 days a year, is 21 cents a day. 21 cents a day to protect your fire, your home from from from burning down. Um, even as much as a 155 uh- wisd
uh for fully funding the fire, well, not fully funding, but taking care of current and future needs. That's 42 cents a day at $155 fire assessment. 42 cent a day count. That's, you know, that's that's
pretty cheap um peace of mind, you know, when you're laying in bed at night worried about your house and whether um our our fire department is adequately funded. Anyway, thank you vote. >> Okay, >> so the first vote is on the substitution
>> to which would substitute >> call for a vote. All in favor say I. In favor of >> substitution. This is a substitution motion. If you vote yes here, >> the motion to table becomes the primary motion over your motion. If you vote no,
your motion will then be voted on. Mr. Kosen. >> Okay. Again, all in favor say I. >> Yes. >> I don't want to delay this. No. >> No. >> Nay. >> I nays carry.
>> So 32. The motion fails. With that, you now immediately proceed to vote on Councilman Kos Kosen's motion to deny the resolution, which is denying the bond. >> Okay. So, with that, all in favor say I. >> No.
>> I >> I >> I >> nay. >> All right. Eyes carry. All right. It's denied. >> Okay. >> Mayor. >> Yeah, we need a break. >> Five minute leg stretch. >> Yes. We going to get sued after that.
uh call this meeting back to order and we're going to just go right straight to citizen comments. And so if you have a comment uh you want to direct to the council, please come to the podium, state your name, and let's keep it under three minutes. Thank you.
Hi, Kim Winterberg. I said I wasn't going to say anything. I always talk too much. Um here's my my question is with the the motion that just passed. Um I is there an opportunity for the CRA to come back to the council after you guys have
had a chance to a workshop to sit down, talk this out, not have a vote on the table and just communicate with each other. Um I I agree with Brute Campbell work on that that that coming to together at odds um when
there's a vote on the table is a little different than when you're in a workshop. So is there an opportunity for them to come back uh to do that? And then secondly um let's say that uh as the landscape has changed uh as Mr.
Harrison mentioned um the next fiscal year to be able to take those funds, reduce the funds where everybody can feel comfortable that it isn't at 95% whether it's cut to 50 or 75 or whatever that amount is and then maybe bring it
back again. I'm I'm just like the pants on fire. Yeah. the pants on fire feeling I get and it it does create a lot of pressure and it creates a lot of stress and emotions run high and I I think that there's a place for the CRA and we need
to keep it we just need to keep it at a place where everybody can feel comfortable and the public needs are still being served while we're still getting a little frosting on the cake. Um I'm just I'm I'm frustrated and I know y'all are too, but I'm trying to think down the road of what we can do
next. Thank you very >> Melinda Henderson, citizen of the city. It just came to me. Well, I've been thinking about it. You will not be able to fund raises if you are being sued over sewage backing
up and you have an organization that was willing to fund you out of this problem. I don't I don't I don't understand it. >> Thank you, >> Mayor. >> Yes, sir.
>> The uh alleyway project is still a city priority and I don't know why people think that's going to go away. We owe that to our business people. And we've currently got Ankor engineering this and Ankor's not
stopping and that's the first step. So, we're going forward with this engineering project. >> Yeah. Anyone else? Just to clarify, mayor, the uh alleyway project currently is not a city CIP project because it's a CRA. So, if that's something we're going to look at in the future, that's something to consider. It's not on the
city CIP at the moment. >> Okay. Well, we can readress that. >> Kenan, it's Kenan Powell. I too am a citizen of Defunia Springs. I guess I'd like to see y'all. Let's just take the amphitheater out of the $5 million.
Let's just use that money right in there for that uh downtown sewer and repaving. And I think that I know my stomach would really feel good about that. Uh I don't really see how we can can
lose the way Clay has explained this to us. The only thing we'd have to come up with is $750,000 a year. And maybe we could come up with that, but we would have that liability gone on that sewer.
Uh, as far as that, uh, I've traveled a little bit in the last 30 years since I went bankrupt farming. Uh, we don't need an amphitheater. We need sewer. >> Thank you.
Anyone else? Honorable mayor Donald Graham, local businessman. I have some family and friends over on the 20th Street sector of the Funiac uh from Walton Road back to Highway 90. I you know I transmute
over there occasionally and I noticed you know the last couple of nights I passed through there and we had citizens of the Phoenix Springs walking from um 20th Street that'll be yeah south to 90. They was walking with flashlights.
>> I mean absolutely it is pitch dark. We got citizens of the funeral walking with flashlights because it's no kind of lighting. Yeah. It's no sidewalks. And I just wish that uh we get ahead of the game because I'm big at public safety.
>> Yeah. >> And we are we need lighting over there. >> We're participating in a survey right now trying to matter of fact we we're we're having kind of go out and um uh GIS, a lot of the equipment, everything
is up and down our streets. And and then of course a count light count is one of them. We know that's a big problem >> and uh we just and and mayor it's it's it's if I didn't spot the flashlight it could have been a crash. It could have been f
fatality over there >> and we don't we don't the city definitely don't need no liabilities. >> Yeah. >> At this point. So if you can look into that and also you know I talked with you about on the south end over there Zach Beast and all that area coming into the
middle sections it's no lighting >> so I mean common sense so uh public safety comes first so if y'all can look into that you know I appreciate it and thank you for your time. >> Thank you. >> Anyone else?
All right, we'll close the floor for public comments and we'll move right to you got anything, Clay? >> No, sir. Mayor, thank you. >> Okay. U All right, we'll go to Miss Evelyn with 9A1. >> So, I wanted to share some concerns regarding our current uh legal
representation and our overall governance processes. And this is my goal is not to be personal or political, but to ensure that we have the ability to talk. It's complete neutral. and I want sound guidance. But recently I
learned that our HR director was told not to do a background check on one of the new hires. And after that afterwards members of the the HR director I called Kobe the HR director said she asked legal counsel and they were said don't
do it because uh the board had already made their decision on their pick for a new hire. But since then the public members of the public have come forward and uh have complained. Why did we do that? And I don't know who up here also
may have been contacted. So I just I want to share it that I have a problem because our policy states that we are to do the we adopted the CRA's bylaws which says they will comply with the city's uh
policies and procedures as it relates to HR function. So I have a concern that came up again. Um I I when it first came up, I called Kobe. I asked um he shared. So I followed up this past Thursday when
I was doing my briefing. Hey, have have you done the background check? Um and again, it has not been completed. So, my concern is we're in violation of our own policies and procedures, which must
we should be doing background checks on uh folks that we're hiring. We can give them a conditional offer of employment, but anyway, I just I want to be sure that uh we're complying with our own policies and procedures. Um, and the
member of the public again, I don't know who else they've contacted, but they've started contacting me again. And I just want I just want us all to have a discussion in reference to that. Um, at a minimum, I I understand there's nothing in that there's nothing going to
come out of it of the background check. So, why would we just not go ahead and do that? Um, you know, that came up once before, not in that particular context, but uh for a person who was promoted to
a position uh that didn't meet the minimum qualifications. Um there's been instances when not all the information I believe not all the information was brought out uh before we were asked to make a decision.
Uh, for example, back to the two budget cycles when we wanted to do um a mapping change. I was shocked to learn just in the past few months that we we cannot initiate it as a group here. Um at
another meeting there was uh motions regarding the fire division and it was the meet two meetings ago and I was yelled at and told proceed at my own peril that it was a sunshine violation and I did I didn't pursue it. I just
asked for a special meeting and we got beyond that. Um I'm also concerned about the tone and neutrality of the legal advice sometimes given. There have been times when I've had the floor and I get spoken over. I get uh voices raised and
I'm confronted in a very confrontational manner and there's been occasions where the council appeared to advocate for a particular outcome rather than just presenting the options uh and allowing the council to make the decisions. There's been instances where questions
directed to staff, uh, legal counsel ends up answering the questions instead of just allowing the staff to answer the questions posed. Um, I have additional concerns about the absence of current legal services contract, the lack of
legal invoices. So, fiscal year 2024, the audit has been completed, but we still have yet to get a legal invoice. For fiscal year 2025, there's been no legal invoices prevent uh presented to
finance for payment and we're 6 months in and 2026 and we don't have any for current fiscal year either. There's been uh project related issues. So, for example, the council was advised that a
development which would effectively landlock other properties was a civil matter between the private parties, but I know uh I I might not be a lawyer, but I know that when the statutes say you can't landlock properties, that that's
an issue that needs to be addressed. There's been situations where projects or extensions such as the Veterans Lodge and Eagle Crossing matters exceeded their approval timelines. And I remember back in July, we were supposed to have additional information brought forward
and I don't think I've missed any meetings and that information is still not before us. We uh also experience scheduling conflicts where the legal council has to choose between representing us and another entity. So uh there's been three
meetings that I'm aware of that we had no legal representation here. I want to address what I see as the direct uh I'm going to skip that one because I think we already debated that in the last issue. Um anyway, given all these circumstances, I don't understand
how uh oh, I'm sorry that's part of that other one. Um the save our charter vote, it was a unanimous vote whether we were going to keep the interim city manager
or not. Instead, uh, we went out, violated our policy, and just decided we're going to go out and do, uh, a referendum and a vote and let the let the citizens decide only to come back. We spent time and money on that issue
only to come back to right where we were when I cast my vote for uh, not keeping the interim manager, which made it not unanimous. Anyway, taking these things all together, it raises concerns for me that this council is not receiving
independent, unbiased, and fully informed legal advice. So, for these reasons, I I want to make a motion to terminate the service the the current attorney client relationship with and obtain independent legal counsel. As part of that motion, I'm going to
recommend that we appoint an interim counsel. Um, I'd recommend Renee Yule for the interim term, but I would welcome other options. Not set on that.
>> We got a a motion on the floor. >> Is that a motion? >> Yes, I made a motion. >> Now, you got two and one or you what's what's your primary motion? my it was all one. I make a motion that
we terminate our relationship with the current legal counsel and that we appoint an interim counsel. And I recommended Renee Yule. She's already on our payroll. She's the magistrate for the city. I'll second for con for for um
discussion. >> I think that's a huge mistake, but you know, go right ahead. >> I didn't hear what you said. >> I said I believe that's a huge mistake. >> I I believe he's very very knowledgeable, Mr. Mayor, but that's not the point. >> He's not perfect. Mr. Mayor,
>> go ahead. >> I'd like to ask council a question. >> Go right ahead. And it's something that I wouldn't typically wouldn't ask him to speak about in public, but I think that he deserves this and I think it should go to his character and his love for the city.
Council, can you explain why you haven't invoiced this city since 2023, just like you told me on Friday? >> And I'd prefer not to, but I will. You asked and I'll give that response. Councilwoman's brought it up, too. I don't think it's a secret to anyone at
this dis anyone listening to this meeting or even in this room the financial issues this city has while yes we have plenty of money in reserves we have cash flow issues in 2023 we have major cash flow issues going back now three city
managers going back even prior to Mr. Barker to Mr. Thompson and I have been repeatedly asked and in years before that my father was asked to assist the city at various times when we would turn in our invoices to hold invoices to otherwise help the city with its cash flow issues. And I have chosen to do
that. Um ultimately um no I don't send you an invoice because if I did under Florida prompt pay you'd start acrewing interest. But I do report on my audit letter every year the exact amount of legal fees you do owe me. So the city knows exactly how much is owed to me as of the 2024 fiscal year close out. I've
done that to avoid interest and penalties to the city. So that wouldn't be necessary. Shows as an account stated it keeps it from being an audit finding. And it's something I've talked to a number of the council members about. Talked to the mayor about it many times over these past couple years. Talk to
Mr. Townson about it many times. I'm utterly confident the city will pay me. But I am fortunate. This is not my only job and I've not been in a position where I've required that. The city has had that need. The last number was over $137,000 this city owes me. But when the
time got ready to come pay it at the end of the fiscal year, this council also was presented with another issue. They couldn't give raises to the 120 plus employees of this city. This council sat in collective bargaining and came out later and made a decision that they wish
to give a one-time pay increase. the effect of a Christmas bonus. I sat down and I looked at that number and that came out to almost $190,000 the city had to pay. So, I could have asked the city to go ahead and pay me that at the end of the fiscal year and wrap up the billing as they're obligated
to pay me and that would have left about $50,000 for our employees. So, they went from they would have gone from $1,500 a man to 400. And I'm going to make no apologies to anyone that I made the decision that it's not costing the city any interest.
You're earning interest on the money that you owe me. That allowed 120 plus people to get a $1,500 check for their Christmases. And I was happy to do that for the men and women who work work for this city. I've been very fortunate and blessed in my life. And I thought that was a fair and reasonable thing to do.
So yes, sir. That's why I've done that. Mr. Conjurs, if the council tells me they want me to send that invoice and y'all want to pay it right now, I'm not going to turn down a check, but at the same time, I did feel that was in prudence and in the best interest of more people than just myself.
>> Thank you, sir. >> And you you meant you went further one time to speak of an instance, and we don't have to go specific to names, but you were issued a check. And what was the outcome of that? Were you asked to do something or not to do something? On more than one occasion, I've been
tendered checks for my legal services that I've been asked to hold for a period of days to avoid accounts becoming overdrawn because the outstanding checks would have put the city in negative balance. And I would note that there were periods of time when certain bills, including for our own police department, didn't get their
internet paid. Their internet got cut off because we couldn't make standard phone bill payments. And during that time was one of those windows where I was asked to hold my payments. So yes, I gladly did that at the request of the officials of the city at that point in time and I would gladly have spoken to any of you about that, including
Councilwoman Evelyn, if she asked why that was going on. I'm not looking for credit for doing that, but if I'm going to be accused of it as though I've done something wrong, I'll go ahead and say it. That's absolutely why I've done it. >> Mr. Mayor, I think this goes to the character and the service that our
council provides us. Furthermore, Miss Heftlin's not the only one that council's corrected behind this dice. He has me on at least two occasions. The difference is I do not take it personal when he does. I take it that he's trying to engage me before I engage in further conversation that may bring further
litigation on this council or liability. So I sit back and I take it and figure out later if I was right or wrong. But I think he's done a great service to this council and I think this just is one more step to something else that's gone on throughout the community.
>> Go ahead. Uh, I just want to respond. You know, Mr. Atkinson, if you just turn in your bills on a timely manner and we paid them, then there would there would be no interest. So, that to me is a mute point. We wouldn't even be paying interest because we'd pay you on time. And if the city has asked you not to pay
something, that goes to show what we're all struggling with right now is we do not have financial stability with our accounts right now. So, uh, you know, that's problematic. And if that's problematic, then we need to address it. But you withholding your invoices for
three years isn't helping the matters because as you know with the county, the same issue came up with the county and it's an audit issue. I'm going to tell you right now with what you just said, the auditors do not understand that your estimate of what you provided,
>> that's not an estimate. That's actually how much is up. >> Okay. Well, I'm going to tell you from my personal conversations with them, they are unaware that that is an actual invoice. if that is an actual invoice and I'm sorry >> it's not I made that very clear if I send an invoice prompt pay kicks in
>> and it should we should pay our bills as they come due >> and if you know something financially that we're not sound and can't pay your bills on time that to me that's >> that's exactly what you ran for office on councilwoman it's been a huge issue for this city >> I wanted to get the financial straight I
didn't we weren't in a dire situation but we continue as the years go on I've been up here now three years and we are getting worse and worse. Okay. But, uh, it's not because your bills aren't being put in at on time. So, uh, I do have,
uh, concerns with that. Am I, you know, let's talk about what the current situation is where members of the public are calling me in reference to the advice that you gave to our HR director not to do a background check on the CRA uh executive director and that's a
violation of our policy. Why wouldn't if you two were in that uh hiring process, why wouldn't we just uh say, "Okay, you can hire, but on a contingent until all these things come back." Well, I I'll address that and I think Mr. Towns can
also address it. Kobe, do you want to start and then allow me to finish? >> Council and I talked about this. It's my Julie spoke to me after the individuals hired. She asked Mr. Atinson about a background check at that time. Your advice to her was don't run one. They've already hired them. >> Correct.
>> I followed through with that advice. If legal counsel as to me as extension of staff advised us that that doesn't need to be conducted, I I seconded that. We move forward. Since then, I've had multiple council members call and ask me why we didn't do it. I've had conversations in person about it and I'll say and I've continued today. It can still be ran. We didn't run it and I
don't intend to run it unless majority of this board or the other board tells me to do it because if the CRA, the one who hires the individual and is responsible for it, doesn't care to have it, then I don't see why I should be care to have it either. So, I don't oversee the CRA, I don't have the authority to do that. I've worked for
this council. This council appoints that board and that board hired his own director. At the time that hiring occurred, they had a director in place. Correct. So it could have been f followed through from that n that individual. So that's why it has not went forward from this day forward. That was the advice I gave to HR. We followed it and we haven't changed since.
>> The first time I was let me answer your question to clarify further. The first time I was approached by HR was leaving the building after the meeting was finished which the CRA had interviewed, selected a candidate,
scheduled a meeting to discuss the contract of the candidate, directed a contract be brought back and at that time went through it. At no point in time between those two was background run and the HR director advised me then, hey, we never ran a background check between them saying they were going to
offer him the job and tonight's meeting. So, do we go ahead and do one right now? It's a little late now. You just signed a contract with severance and other language in there. So, my position was to miss to our HR director at that point in time. You were not directed to do so
on behalf of the CRA. You weren't asked to do so. And the policy says to do it. There's no doubt about it. But I tell y'all all the time, hey, this is my advice. The board chose to do something different. I'll say the employee has made it abundantly clear since then that
they would be glad to have a background check. I've spoken to the city marshall at length about it. City marshall and I have looked into a number of the issues raised and in terms of that I stand by my position. It would have subjected the city and the CRA to greater liability to run a background check or resend an
offer after the council chose to move forward and it was not done. Why a background check was not initiated or no onboarding process started between the date of interview and the date of the meeting to negotiate a contract. I can't speak to the first I learned of that was
after the act had occurred. At that point in time our hands are tied. That's my opinion and I do stand by because I think it creates greater liability and exposure. >> Was it not the same exact meeting? Are you saying they had multiple meetings? They had the >> they interviewed Mr. Hamilton, selected
Mr. Hamilton and directed a contract be brought back at a special meeting for Mr. Mr. Hamilton. Only after that meeting was I advised that the city got run a background check >> as the legal counsel. Are you not asked to look at their contracts? So after the contract so you you could have advised
as their legal counsel in my opinion that look you need to have this as a contingent offer and that would >> and they said they didn't want to do a contingent offer. They wanted him hired that night. I just want the public to
>> I I would like to see this go to bed. I would like to see this I would like to see us as a group say, "Look, we're not going to violate our policy just because we violated now that we know that we broke broke it. Let's go back and fix it and get back." And I'm telling you, the
gentleman himself is Mr. Hamilton has said he'd be fine having a background check. He doesn't oppose having >> I know he knows exactly. I've talked to him. I talked to him the day that the the the people called with the concern. I didn't hide this from him and I tried
to gather all the uh information. So I I think that we as a council need to follow our own policies and shouldn't skirt them. Shouldn't and just because we made a mistake doesn't mean we shouldn't fix it. >> I don't believe a mistake was made in the sense the CRA made an active
decision to do what they did. >> They violate our policies. our policies. >> They're an independent entity. They can adopt your your policies and they can choose to not apply to your policies. You can't require them to follow your policies. >> Okay. Well, you know, >> they are an independent entity at Florida law.
>> What's so funny about that is here we are just spent an hour and a half on uh certain things they can do by themselves and certain things that they can't do. One thing they can't do is borrow money. >> That's right. >> How do I know that? Uh, you know, >> if you'd asked me at any point in time
between now and then, I would have gladly been able to discuss this with you. Councilwoman, >> I discuss this with the other four council members anytime they call and ask weekends, nights, early mornings. Talk to everybody at this DAS regularly. All you have to do is reach out and I'll
be glad to answer any question you have. That's my job. I had a conversation with Clay Friday as well um and expressed a concern or two, but uh one concern that I had was well, what if there's a conflict of of some
sort litigation between the city and the county, heaven forbid, right? >> Right. >> And you know, and you gave the example of a county truck hitting a city or vice versa or whatever, something like that. Um, Clay, would you tell them the answer you gave me as far as insurance goes?
>> Absolutely. So, the vast majority of your litigation, in fact, pretty much every bit of litigation this city's had over the past several years, is the insurance covered through the Florida Municipal Insurance Trust, just like the counties is through the Florida Association of Counties Trust. So, in those cases, independent council's automatically assigned by your insurer
and they pick up those bills. So, in a case like that, you'd have two different attorneys that wouldn't have anything to do with the in-house attorneys. Um, the last two litigations that been settled, lawsuits against the police department for these things are all assigned outside counsel. But I also said this to you, Councilman. So, I'll go and say
this. The Florida Bar prescribes what happens when you represent multiple clients that do come into conflict. I wouldn't be able to represent you both. But conflict isn't an interlocal agreement that you mutually agree to because that says anybody can terminate it. You just walk away from it. That's the way it works. There's no litigation.
You can't sue the county today under an interlocal because they can say we terminate in 60 days. It's over. Same way they can't sue you. And I would note that there's not been a whole lot of litigation if any between these cities. But what would happen, my contract is very clear with the county, the former
representation control. So this is an issue that I've been representing the city on and an issue arises, the county has additional counsel. Now, 20 years from now, I think the example I gave was the city and the county decide that they're going to get into the telecom
game and start laying fiber, which right now we can't do, but let's hypothetically assume it changes. And then you start disputing territory. Well, that's a brand new issue. In that case, yeah, there could well be a conflict of interest. And in that case, it would depend on which side I was advising first or not, or ultimately you
would probably both end up with separate counsel even if you didn't have insurance. But the Florida Bar is very clear on conflicts. U we discussed this at length with the Florida Bar, my father and I did before we took the acting county attorney's position in
2021. The Florida Bar made it very clear that no, you can't represent them both in the same litigation. But merely representing separate and distinct entities is not at all a violation. And there's a great number of law firms around the state who focus solely on local government. And they represent
numerous local governments. And I will further note that a Florida bar complaint was filed against me in the last two years asserting this exact issue and the Florida bar found no legal or factual basis to that alleged conflict of interest. Now, Councilwoman Hland doesn't have to like it. I
understand that. But to sit here and impugn my integrity by saying I'm actually violating my ethical cannons of the Florida Bar is something I do not appreciate. Mayor, if I can follow up one more thing with him, your contract with the county, you know, six $650,000.
Is that correct? Tell me. >> It they pay me at the sum of $50,000 a month is my monthly retainer. Plus, they pay me the rate of $400 an hour for litigation. Okay. That is not insurance covered. >> Okay. And and I really didn't get into that. That's, you know, that's that's
your business. But the fact is you have a contract with the county. Yes, sir. and we had a conversation that if there were a uh conflict of some other sort other that insurance attorneys would handle >> that you have a clause in your contract that you uh included in that contract as
far as who you would represent in a case. >> Correct. It's well well laid out former representation controls the first of the two clients controls. So if this is a long-standing issue, I'm stuck with the first client because that's what the Florida Bar tells me I have to do and the county has to have a different attorney. and the first client is to
see. >> Well, we represent the city of Phoenix since the early 80s and that's who the first client is. >> Okay. I think that puts to rest, you know, some concerns that a lot of people might have. They go, well, he's making, you know, all this money. Who would he represent? We all know who that would be
because of the money. His contract actually states that he would represent the city in a conflict like that. >> But the problem is there that there is no contract between the city and Mr. Atkinson or his firm. The other concern
that I have which I just heard being spoke about was you used the our car hitting their car and you know independent legal counsel, but what happens when we've got an interim city manager and
you got a 40 4-1 vote that required us to go out uh outside of our policies. Let's do a referendum. You know what about right now? I felt that way when we were doing the fire department. It takes 50 a unanimous vote to deactivate a
division. And so, >> and I've said repeatedly, that's true. That's exactly right. It takes a 50 vote to deactivate a division. But I have never once heard this city council say they were deactivating the fire department. They discussed management. >> No, it was a way it was a roundabout way
to get to where uh certain uh to get to that conclusion instead of just doing it. I mean, we were essentially giving away >> just paying for I don't want to get into that argument, but me >> either. >> Even the interim uh city manager.
>> Well, the council asked to do a referendum and when the council votes to do something, it's my job to draft. >> No, I voted. It was a 4-1 vote. It should have just been dead and we would have moved on. But instead, >> but counciloman, an ordinance to call a referendum is a 3-2. And they council has a right to
>> how are we going to go forward? Will you give us your invoices for all three years up from 24 25? >> If that's what you want, I'll gladly do it. >> And I >> I'm more than happy to get paid. >> What are we as a board going? >> She doesn't m again. >> She doesn't speak for this entire
council. >> So, how would we as a council like to move forward on uh invoices for 242? >> Second to terminate me. So, maybe you need to take that up first since that's >> agree, Mr. >> Okay. I've got motion. I've got
something to say about this mayor. >> Okay. Go ahead. >> Clay's one of the reasons, there's several reasons, but Clay's one of the reasons that really encouraged me to run for this seat and and that was um I
saw how they treated you. And if I've ever seen anything that was the textbook perfect example of a hostile work environment, uh you you were the whipping boy. And it was especially over
things like um an unqualified finance manager with no more training than a high school degree getting over a $50 million a year budget. I couldn't understand that. I couldn't understand an unqualified uh city manager and why
applications for the city manager's job kept disappearing and why we couldn't find an applicant. Um there's there's a lot of things that made me want to run and the way you were treated uh was a big reason. Now,
since I've been elected, that behavior has continued. And I apologize to you for not calling point of border. And I'm going to do that from now on. And what I think is
Clay, we have to raise our hand and get permission from the mayor to speak. And if you're not asked to speak, you need to sit there and shut up. You need to let the elected officials speak. You
weren't elected. We were. Now, if you see us going off the rails, mayor, but don't just butt in. I mean, you're taking advantage of her, and I'm going to call you out on this.
Um, on the other side of the coin, well, first of all, let me tell you this. All this conflict of interest stuff, I was fully on board that it was wrong. How can this happen?
And that bar complaint that was filed against Clay, my name was on it. I could not understand for the life of me how an attorney can have his hands in every pot.
But the bar uh the bar didn't pay any attention. Everything was legit. I was wrong. Everything was on the up and up. I didn't know that.
If things are on the up and up, I don't have a problem with him. And if things are wrong, if he's doing something wrong, show me the evidence. The bar complaint has already dismissed the complaint.
I want evidence that he's done something wrong. And as long as he's been an attorney for the city in the county, you'd think if he was corrupt, they would have taken his license by now.
Now, I'm not friends with Clay. We've never sat down and broke bread together. We've never had a drink together. I've never been in his home. uh we don't hang out. But if you look at lawyers, I got to
work with him now. I got to work with him. But if you take all the lawyers from Pensacola to Tallahassee, Clay's the biggest son of a of all of them. >> Wait a minute. That is not necessary.
>> He is He is the biggest son of a of every one of them. And I'll tell you And I'll tell you what, >> out of order. >> Okay. My question is when we get in trouble, who do we want? Do we want that son of a on our
side? Said you're out of order. >> Or do we want to have to fight him? I'm no fan of clay, but if I got to have somebody on my side, I want a lawyer that goes scorched
earth. I want a lawyer that goes for the juggler. I I know somebody that used to work for the state attorney's office. They worked there for 10 years. They were on the felony desk. It was one of the highest highest respected attorneys, state
attorneys in this district. and he told me that anytime he was going into the courtroom to face Clay Atkinson, usually it ended up in a plea bargain cuz they knew exactly how he pl practiced law.
And recently I thought I might need an attorney with a lifelong friend. We had a bad falling out. And the reason I didn't ask Clay is because I didn't want him
I didn't want him to to do that. And that's what he does. That's why people That's why people don't want to mess with us. There's an attorney out on on on 37 on 375 down south
and he thinks he's all that bad. all that in a bag of chips. He's responsible for destroying a lot of quality of life on the south on the south end. And when I was on the planning commission, he would poke Clay a little bit just to,
you know, let him let people think I'm not afraid of you. But he didn't poke too hard. And uh Clay would look at him like, "Do you really want to do this?" And I'm sitting there on the planning board watching this. And Clay gave him he
said, "You he didn't say anything. It was like, you really want to do this?" And he sat down and shut up. But Clay, you really need to get on showing some respect to Councilman Havlin. And
if you're asked a question, answer. If you want to intervene, raise your hand. We need to clean this up. And I'm I'm not I'm not a big fan of clay,
but figuratively speaking, let's just say let's just say a courtroom or litigation is comparative to a barroom fight. If I'm going into a barroom fight, I want Clay with me.
Amy, >> I I want to point out that I started my conversation by saying I I I just wanted to share my concerns. I didn't ask for this to be personal or political, but I'm only pointing out facts and I didn't
think I was imputing your character. Those are y'all's words, not mine. So, you know, I'm sorry that you feel that way, uh, Mr. Atkinson, but, uh, that is not my intention. My intention is to air all of this out because when I got my briefing on Thursday and the members of
the public were calling me and then I had asked could we just follow our policy and it wasn't complied with and and Mr. City Manager did share with me why he backed up the HR director but that still didn't answer the concern of
our policy says to do X so we should do X. So, and that was just, you know, one of many and I needed to air this out. I mean, I do feel that there is conflict. I feel that we do there are times when you can't be here. Uh, you know, and we
should have interim council anyway. >> I'm here at every regularly scheduled meeting. I talk through meetings I've not been able to attend. I have been at these meetings via Zoom and telephone when I've been laid up in bed after major surgery and I am here whenever they ask
but for instance the strategic planning meeting I was told there was no need for the city to pay me for my time to be there didn't even send me a calendar invite and I'm certainly fine doing that but I'm here every Monday night I have no conflicting board meetings with your regularly scheduled meetings and that's
part of how I set my schedule >> well the only time I have the opportunity to talk to the council members and share this kind of thing is here. So, unfortunately, um, you know, I'm sorry that it has to be in a public meeting, but it is what it is. And, um,
>> and that's why I wanted to give you a second. >> Well, I appreciate it. Thank you, >> Rob. >> Uh, Rob Hamilton, citizen. I'm not talking as the CRA director right now. Um, I was going to sit down until my name came up. So, I'm going to point out a couple
things. is one, I've passed three level two FBI background checks in the last 5 years. Two, the person complaining that I won't name, but now your phone calls are public records, so I guess we'll request that later. Uh, is someone who sued me for opening my gym and didn't get the
result he wanted, and now he's being a little, I won't curse, child, uh, and and and trying to smear my name. Uh, my legal counsel is now going after him since you brought it up at a public meeting and his new advice to me is to not consent
to anything. Thanks. >> Thank you. >> All right. Any other comments in regards to the motion? Anyone? >> Well, yeah. I'd just like to say I mean tr you know if if I've had a question I
can say honestly Clay I recently had a a caller text in to him you know looking for reply before council meeting you know and time rocked on through the day and I thought well I really need to know this and in my brain I was actually a day ahead and I had another day actually
but Clay not only responded to me uh he gave me a lesson in the the uh issues involved um and the legal uh soundness of of his opinion. I
have I have zero questions about his ability. Uh I've told him this numerous times. I've known him since high school. And there's no loyalty there other than that than a than a a very high admiration for his intelligence and his
knowledge of the law. and there's not many people around like him. And I I guarantee you in lawyer circles, um, people are very well of his very well aware of his ability. Um, and I think, you know, from that standpoint point, we're fortunate to have him and I can
understand, you know, the questions of, you know, conflicts and what have you. But, you know, he he made the time and when he told me he you know, he had that clause in his contract with the county that his firm has been serving us longer than
than the county. So, he would represent us in those kind of cases. That means a lot uh to to know that. Um, so I'm just very confident in him and and um I know I'm like you, you know, if if if we're in a legal legal battle, I I I have
confidence that he can handle our issues for us u very well. >> Mayor. >> Yeah, >> please. >> So, she brought up a good point that we have to have consistency as far as background checks go. Um would it be
proper to make a substitute motion >> to uh >> that that's not on the agenda? I don't believe that will be appropriate at this time, but we could certainly have >> to just follow to just follow the rules and uh to Okay, we can >> you have a joint you have a joint
meeting coming up with the CRA and I think if you wanted to take it up that would be a perfect time to bring it up because it pertains to their employee. >> I mean all employees not I'm not singling out. As far as I know, we do own all city employs. >> Okay. What about entities that represent
that are connected with the city? >> Well, it's a separate and distinct legal entity. That's the first occasion I've ever seen of them not doing a background check. >> But they did but they do have a set of bylaws that says they will follow our policies, do they not? >> Correct. But that's their decision to adopt them or their decision to disregard them. They are a separate and
distinct legal entity. So, you know, in the future that is a concern. Uh, you know, re regardless. I mean, they're handling taxpayer dollars. I >> I don't disagree whatsoever. I discussed that matter with the board and the executive director. The board had its position of what it wanted to do. But
again, Mr. Hamilton's made it clear. He has no problem with a background check. I just It's just not on the agenda tonight. Mr. Cosen is the only reason I've got to say woo instead of giddy up. >> Yes, sir. >> Mr. Mr. attorney, could you please repeat what you just said? You talked to
the CRA board in reference to this >> a after it came up. Yes, I've discussed this matter. This has come up. This is several months old. This has been going on for quite some time. I'm understanding you just learned of it last week. >> I spoke to the chief about it would have been back in the month of December, I
believe. Chief's nodding. I think that's about right. I can probably pinpoint the day. >> That was that was the first time. Just to be clear, I learned this day the same day the chief did or the day after and I only followed up within the last two weeks because
>> other members are hearing this. It's >> and I've spoken to members of this council. I've spoken to members of the CRA board. I've spoken to former director. Mr. Hamilton, I've spoken about it. The chairman of the CRA board and I've spoken about it. Spoken to Mr. Towns about it. So, this is not something that's new to me. I mean, this
is two months old and we dealt with it then. Will you share with us what what that discussion was, what it looked like? >> In my opinion, that prudence would have been to go forward with the background check and that this is why you don't get in front of the process >> and and if Mr. Hamilton is in agreement
that he wanted one, why would we have >> none of them to go forward with it? >> So, was this discussion at the board meeting? We can go Okay. So, you did it in in individually with each member. Okay. I brought up that issue had been raised about Mr. Hamilton's like
background check and concerns people have. >> Yes, ma'am. >> I don't know. Uh what was I going to say? >> Okay. No. Well, I I know part of it. Since this whole conversation has come
up, I I want some of you to understand sometimes the reason I come in hot. I guess I watch these meetings and I see how Amy's been treated by mostly Councilman Biron. Um, tonight was no
exception and sometimes the mayor gets and I'm not I mean I'm just it's it's brought up now. >> You're a perfect counselor. Go ahead and tell us. >> I'm not trying to be a counselor that this is this is why people behave the way they do when they come to the meetings because you kind of got an attitude. >> But that that's the part I'm talking
about. By the way, while we're had it, you lied big time the other night. >> I did. >> Yes, you did. >> I told a very very obvious a big lie >> lie right in front of everyone that everyone knew about. >> Did you Did you try to deceive the public with your lie? Do you think I did?
>> You finish up. >> Answer me. You open the door. >> You finish up. >> Okay. Scared to answer that question, aren't you? Okay. >> Okay. So anyway, what I was trying to say is
maybe everyone could consider I'm public. Treat me like that if you want to. But but this is your counsel. You know, you guys try to just try to keep that in mind. Even when you get frustrated, respect each other more because y'all really don't show a lot of respect to her. I don't really see that
as much in Clay, to be honest. I see frustrations with you two trying to get your points across to each other. Um that happened in a city meeting a few weeks ago. He and I were shouting and screaming over each other through the whole meeting. He called me the next day. Um we had a discussion. We got
things straighten out. So I think you need to add to your motion. What day, what time, and what place are we going to lunch to talk and get to know each other? And that's all I've got to say. That's nonsense aside. Y'all just start respecting each other and trying to understand each other and
respect her. Even if you don't agree with her, you don't have to be so nasty to her. >> Thank you. Okay. All right. Yes, ma'am. >> I just want to reiterate something that Randy said. I started coming to the city council meetings in August. Had never
been before. Came in and I have been shocked by the way that the council is run and the things that are said and done. Sometime Todd has gotten frustrated and been rude just like when he asked me if I wanted the fire department to have the proper
equipment. Of course I do. That's my kid there and I want it for him anyway. I don't envy any of you your jobs. I would I I'm not in that job and I just said this out here in the public because I'm not politically correct enough. I would be frustrated and I would act ugly. But
if you want to hold these jobs, you got to do better. You have Mr. Sconers and I didn't agree on the fire department thing, but he has treated me with utmost respect. We had good conversations and even though we didn't agree, we didn't treat each other ugly or call names.
Todd didn't really call me a name, but he lets his frustrations getting get the best of him and act out. And we've got to do better. We're grown people and I you were very disrespectful in the last meeting, Todd, to Mr. Harrison and I
really hated that for him and I called him afterwards and apologized that he was treated that way. So, we all do. And Mr. Mayor, you've been the rudest person of all. I've never encountered >> a person in the p in a position like
yours that would be that rude to the public. >> And I'm not saying you're not a nice man, but you need to get control of how you run these meetings and how you act. Yeah, I've been told I need to get control of a lot of things here, mayor. >> Okay. >> Would you mind if I summed up something
with a comment? I'd like to. And it's on. >> You can sum it up. Yes, sir. >> Okay. I have heard since I since I moved into town, uh, that Clay Atkinson controls everything. And I got to thinking about that and at
first I bought it. And then since I've been sitting in this seat, um, he doesn't control me. I don't think he controls Glenn and I know he doesn't control Laney.
So if you want to point the finger at anybody who's controlling, look at the elected officials that let him control them. Those are the ones that are causing the problem, not Clay.
Look at your elected officials. Look who he controls and look who he doesn't control. And remember that when you get to the polls, >> who are you referring to, Mr. Kosa? >> Yeah, >> you you speak you spoke of three, but you left two out. Myself and Councilman Berbomb. I don't think that either one
of us are controlled. And if so, I really hope you got some evidence for it. >> Okay. So, right now, this sounds like a guilty conscience because I didn't accuse you of anything. >> No, but you left us out somewhere >> because because I already know. >> What do you know?
>> I know that he either controls you or I know that he doesn't control you. I know that I know those one of two things. And that and my opinion doesn't matter. >> My opinion doesn't matter. >> I agree with you there. the uh the constituents, the people that are in
this city. >> Sum it up. >> Their their opinion matters, not mine. >> I don't know if he controls you or not. I said that. Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't. I don't know. >> God does. And that's the only person that does.
>> Yeah. But the but the uh the citizens are going to weigh in on it, too. >> I surely hope so. >> Bring it on. >> Okay. >> Yes, sir. Um the difference in controlling someone, Councilman Cosen,
and someone being the most experienced. Well, I don't know the order of when you came on, Amy, and when Josh came on, but I know those two have been here. Josh, how long you been a councilman? I I don't recall. Longer than you. So,
they've been here. They've dealt with Clay a lot more than the three of us have on over here. And so, you know, because I don't think they're controlled by Clay. I think they've learned to listen to his his his legal advice. Um,
and his wisdom with what he does. I mean, so so there is a difference. Um, and and I'm learning that I've said I've stated that tonight. As we go, I learn more and more about Clay and what he offers to this city and the things he's done for the city. and it and I can
understand people's you know thinking that well he has to have some conflicts or whatever but I believe that um knowing him as a person I believe if a conflict came up that he was sure enough in a dilemma he'd tell us >> and he he would he would back away from
it um and at that time we could seek interim or whatever whatever the course of action is uh at that time I don't know but um so you know I I don't you And we've said this, you know, and we've had this conversation. This conversation
does not look good on us. And we're trying to hire some important people in our organization to take a burden off of people here in city hall in worked in administration and various departments and our city manager who is all doing
multiple jobs. They desperately need help. We need a city clerk. We need a finance director. This doesn't help our case with those applicants watching this these meetings. So we we don't have to make things so personal. You know,
coming from the education uh sector, I guess we we had to follow professional standards and guidelines and ethics and and all those things. And if we didn't, there were repercussions for that. So, we have when we're
elected, we might not be I don't consider myself a politician. I didn't run as a politician. Uh but I realize that kind of goes with the territory of sitting here, I guess. But, um it we have to conduct ourselves in a pro professional manner and we absolutely
have to show respect to each other, not be sarcastic, not be condescending, all those things that gets hackles up. Uh and and we just have to do the public are right. We have to do a better better job because getting these people hired for that man sitting right there that has all the burden of disresponsibility
on his shoulders. We owe him more. >> Thank you. >> Donald El Grim, city city resident. Well said, uh, Councilman Harris. And, uh, I'm going to, you know, put a little caveat on that. We had a circus here last week and I be damn I think it came
to the city hall tonight and I mentioned that uh we cannot bring what's going on on the south end with the BCC into our city. We got a powerful city, the city seat of the Funac Springs, 1884
services, great services, police department, fire department, a great city council. But these public attacks on our attorney and our mayor, we just don't like that, man. We want solutions. We want every one of y'all to be a
solutioner. This is ridiculous. all this circus non-t talk criticizing, oh, don't don't talk to her or him like that. You're a city council person. When you in a negotiation at the table, round
table, it's tough decisions to be made and you got to have tough skin. But this apologizing, telling somebody to apologize to somebody elected for the people, to get things done, to get jobs, get housing, sidewalks, lights.
We ain't got time for that. That's a waste of our taxpayers money. So you got to have tough tough skin. If you want to get a pity party, go somewhere else. But this a few springs and we going to stand tall. Thank you, ma'am. >> Thank you. All right. Anyone else before
we call? >> All right, this is it. This is it. Go ahead. >> These are my concerns. The only way I could address them is bring them to the table to address them. And look how ugly we've all become. I didn't want this to
be a personal battle between what he did or didn't do. I wanted to share my concerns that were violating policy. We need to fix it. We We should be doing things by our policies. We want to move forward. We just had a wonderful workshop that said, "Hey, look, we we we
came, we figured out what our commonalities were in this past week and now we're going to move forward." You know, I'm not here to impugn Mr. Atkinson. I never used those words. I used factual data that I wanted to share. This is three years in the
making. You know, it's not I've been patient for a very long time and I think that we can get this resolved. I don't know how and I don't know what the exact solution is, but if we don't talk about it, it'll never get resolved. >> Thank you.
>> All right. All in favor say I. >> No. >> I >> What are we voting on? >> To terminate. >> To terminate. >> To terminate you. >> No. >> Nay. >> Nay. >> Nays. Carrie. Thank you very much. Um,
>> I'm okay with it. Um, >> I'm not mad at you, but you have everybody come up here and say, lesbian media. So >> anybody to say anything? >> I didn't even share. >> Sure. >> Yeah. Okay. All right. We'll start with Mr. Con.
>> Is this executive comments? >> Um to council comment. >> Go ahead. Um, just FYI, I know tomorrow that we last meeting Kobe's going to go tomorrow to
the um county for an ask. I I'm really still confused about what he's going to ask for. I think we're putting the cart before the horse because we don't even know what we really officially need before we do go ask. I just want that on the record. And then the other thing, Mr. Harrison, you mentioned some
somewhere this evening. You've mentioned that we might have eight vacant positions available and Kobe, if that's accurate, then we might have that 40 grand in those savings right there. >> I'll let Councilman answer. I think we was referring to is the eight positions we eliminated last budget year. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> Yeah, the vacancy we didn't replace. Yeah. Yeah. >> Um I'd like to go back to the, you know, the bond uh issuance. You know, we didn't we didn't discuss, you know, the the the ask here was for the $5
million for the alleyway project and the amphitheater, and the $5 million didn't cover both of those anywhere close to it. Um there was no discussion at this dis about
limiting or reducing that bond ask to cover the alleyway. Um, and that's why I went the way I I did had that conversation arrived at this diet. We, you know, we we might have had a
different look, a a different outcome on that. The alleyway project to me is something that absolutely has to we have business owners down there that we have to take care of and we have to have the money to do that. So, you know, the the the the big ass for the amphitheater,
the amphitheater is what we see as as as potentially frivolous, not having an absolute revenue uh flow even decided how that would occur. Um talked about but not decided how it would occur. So,
the a lower a lower amount of a bond to cover the alleyway could have been something that was worthwhile to dis to discuss. Okay. So, are we on um >> comments? >> Council comments now. I was at one of our local businesses, one of our local
businesses today and just by chance ran into this total stranger that uh we struck up a conversation. Come to find out, he's new in town. and I introduced myself and I said, "Well, if you'd like to get involved in being in knowing
what's going on in your city, we're having a city council meeting tonight." And I So, Mr. Farmer, would you please stand up? We'd like to welcome you to the Funiac Springs. >> Welcome to the jungle. Amen.
Some of the things that I have experienced there. It's been more of a nightmare than a return to my hometown. >> And it's not because of what goes on in the city council. I understand that, you know, you have some discrepancies about
monies and debts and, you know, just personal issues. That's normal. You guys have the right to hash out whatever you want to hash out amongst yourself because you have great responsibilities as that gentleman said that just left out of here. You guys
have some great responsibilities, you know, but some of the things that you're overlooking is the people is what this city is about. So is government and so is a whole lot of other things that go on. You know, we neglect to look at the people. We are people. We have our
own things that we have to deal with in our personal lives and we don't need any additional interferences with those things. That's more than a chore for us. >> Well, thank you alone. >> Thank you for your comments. We appreciate it. >> Well, I just want to make another
statement. You know, I'm proud of uh what the Punia represents. I left here a long time as a kid and uh it has come a long way. There was a lot of uh things going on then
and uh I got to add a little punchline to it. There just a few steps that's been taken in some areas and we need to focus on that also. I hope we get these matters of money straighten out here and I hope we continue to grow. >> Thank you. >> Thank you, sir. >> You done? All right, we'll call this
meeting a journ.