WEBVTT

METADATA
Video-Count: 1
Video-1: youtube.com/watch?v=iZ9K6GRp8g0

NOTE
MEETING SECTIONS:

Part 1 (Video ID: iZ9K6GRp8g0):
- 00:00:01: Meeting Opening, Invocation, Pledge, and Initial Discussion
- 00:02:26: Councilmember Amy's Preferred Finance Director Qualifications
- 00:05:25: Councilmember Glenn's Perspective and Bondability Question
- 00:10:08: Councilmember Harrison's Points and HR Recommendations
- 00:15:32: Councilmember Beerbaum: Experience Requirements Discussion
- 00:20:03: Councilmember Josh's Experience Qualifications Perspective
- 00:21:14: Councilmember Kobe Overview and Recommended Starting Salary
- 00:22:51: Discussion About Progression and Managerial Experience
- 00:27:11: Florida Experience Requirement: Debate and Considerations
- 00:30:33: Governing, Experts, and State-Specific Experience Requirement
- 00:34:52: Statutes, Rules, Access to Finance Director, Whistleblowing
- 00:42:58: Reporting Structure, Grand Jury, Access and Defunding
- 00:49:14: Ethical Obligation, Council Interference, City Manager Role
- 00:55:15: Ordinance Changes, Reporting Authority, Meeting Requirements
- 01:01:20: Finance Director Reporting Structure Recommendation Discussion
- 01:09:30: Motion to Revise Minimum Experience, Voting and Carried
- 01:09:46: Public Comment (1 of 1): Question on Finance Director Experience
- 01:09:58: Motion to Revise Reporting Structure and Hiring Process
- 01:11:56: Motion to Direct Staff, Discussion and Adjournment Thoughts
- 01:12:28: Compensation Review and Budget Modification Discussion
- 01:17:19: Advertising, Vendor Selection and Public Comment Concerns
- 01:22:23: Public Comment (2 of 2): Budget Concerns and Adjournment


Part: 1

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We want to open this special meeting. Today is Tuesday, May the 19th, 2026. We will ask Council to please follow. >> Microphone. Thank you. Father, we thank you for this day and

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all your many blessings. Lord, we thank you for granting us a good weekend, Lord. and um all of our citizens and our friends been able to come out and enjoy time at Lakefest and it was just a good time. Father, we pray dear Lord that you will be with us throughout this meeting.

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Lord, grant us wisdom and clarity in our thoughts so that we can make a good decision on getting through uh this application qualifications. Father, we ask these things in Jesus name. Amen. >> Amen. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the

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republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. >> All right. Okay. With the council's permission, what I I'd like to propose is that we

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let the council, you know, give hopefully you've kind of got your best scenario in mind. I know everybody's flexible, but your best scenario and just go ahead and we'll go through all five of you and then we can uh have Kobe

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Kobe's got a little bit of outside information he got from some of cities much larger than us, some more on our line and that type of thing. And uh did you give us a copy of that or no? Kobe, >> did you give out these? Does everybody have that? Go

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>> ahead. kind of a consultation of uh the different cities we reached out. >> Is that what this is? >> Yes, that's what Julie reached out to and put requirements in the what do they provide to us in terms of range >> and he can run us through this but what

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I can do I can start with >> uh Todd if you don't mind if you want to just give your best scenario what you think it ought to look like. Now, I know you're adjustable, but I'm just saying right out of the shoot, what do you

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think would work? And then we just go through each >> mercy mayor. Don't put me on the spot. >> I'll start if he doesn't want to. >> Well, we can do that. >> Yeah, go ahead. >> Okay. All right. Go ahead. >> So, what I did, I I guess what's in

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front of us, I did the same thing in a one pager and I put everybody side by side. I put column by column to compare apples to apples and I eliminated some of what we had staff bring back to us because they weren't apples to apples.

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For example, Northwest Florida College is in a municipality. They don't have utilities. So, what I did was then after I put them side by side, apples to apples, I ranked them who's got water, sewer, natural gas, and and an airport. If they had those four things plus city,

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municipality, then they may I I paired it down to seven. So side by side can I don't know if this mic's on. I can't tell. But um >> they should all be pointed to the one.

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>> Hello, it's on. >> How's that? >> Okay. So, for example, college degree, the majority of our neighboring cities have only require a bachelor's degree. >> So, uh I think ours is a little bit more

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stringent than that. Um anyway, that's how I rank the cities. Here's what I'd like to see overall. I I'd like to see us revise the minimum experience requirement for the position to f whatever it is, eight years plus whatever. I'd like to see it to five

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years of progressively responsible Florida government finance accounting experience including at least two years of supervisory experience. I'd also like to see then um the position I I went back to by the way

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and looked at the grand jury report. It doesn't require us to do anything. Um what it said basically was there was some confusion on who this person responds who who this person reports to. It should be reporting um to where there's no confusion. It

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just needed to be clarified. I'd like to see that back to the city manager. I believe that's where it was before. I don't want to manage that person and I think it's better daytoday anyway under the city manager. So, I would like to see us revise the reporting structure

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for the finance director so that clarity that the position reports directly to the city manager, which by the way is consistent with our neighboring municipalities, and to remove language that creates dual or overlapping reporting expectations. And the only other thing that I'd like to see is the

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job description, which is I don't know, multiple pages. I'd like to see uh direct staff to review and revise the job description to improve and clarity, remove overlapping responsibilities, align the position description more closely with professional standards and

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comparable municipal finance director positions in our surrounding jurisdictions. >> So that's my best mayor. >> Okay. All right. So things you didn't address, you're pretty good with. >> Things you did not address, you're

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pretty good with. I think that I think what I said will clarify everything I would like to see in a finance director. >> All right, Glenn. >> Um I have a question on our description. I didn't see it in any other of these other cities. Uh the part about being uh

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bondable is that is that a general requirement? We've done it for a long time. >> We have. It's not a big deal. Um so we already so used to the city we so there's two people in the city require bond. city clerk and the finance director. Yeah. Um we used to buy separate bonding from from an agency.

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It's not required because FMIT, our insurance liability, it already covers that. It already has that in there. So, they're already bonded. >> Yeah, probably a good idea. I I just noticed that I didn't see it in any of the other cities and I was wondering full circle was just curious about that.

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Um but yeah, I think um I think we're we're pretty much in line with most other other cities with the exception of the experience. And as I said in our last meeting, you know, I I you know, five years seems like a good uh and Amy,

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what was that? Five years in experience in city >> because some of these cities have >> I said I I didn't say city. I said just say uh >> okay >> a broader Florida government finance accounting. >> Okay. >> Is that where they where they had eight years? You're saying fine.

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>> Uhhuh. >> Okay. >> I'm saying five plus two. And if you notice that's what all of our neighboring >> That's right. >> U neighbors have done. >> Yeah. And and I had I had mentioned that in in that meeting and it because some of these cities say specifically five years managerial

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>> uh experience. Um, so this ours says 8 years experience in local government accounting. It doesn't necessarily m say managerial. Um, so if that's what we're looking for, you know, we want somebody with that experience in managerial. The

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two years um uh let's see, we're we're saying four years experience of chief financial officer, director of finance, which would be managerial. >> Okay. All right. So some some of these cities are at five. We so we would be at

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two managerial if we do it in in that way or unless you're two years was of something other skill. >> No, mine said two years of supervisory experience. >> Supervisory. Okay. >> And five years of accounting knowledge. Two years has to be supervised.

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>> So just semantics as far as whether we call it managerial or supervisory. >> Okay. So, I'm I'm I'm okay with with re, you know, going to those uh levels. I I kind of agree with that. >> Yeah. >> Um the bachelor's degree I'm fine with in those specified fields because that

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seems uniform with all these other cities as well and it's always worked good for the Phoenix. Um the let's see what else we looking for here. Um, are we talking salary ranges right now or

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>> I don't think so, but we I mean you can throw it out there. >> Um, well, let me see if there's anything else on the I didn't expect a pop quiz. Um, >> what was the girl's name? What was the

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girl's name that uh Deborah? >> Yeah. Do you know what year she started? That's where it was at. >> I I think she started in 18. >> Who are you speaking about? >> Miss Gibson. >> When did she start here?

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>> I believe it was either 18 or 19. >> I just wanted to share something with Mr. Harrison if I might >> and the rest of the folks. Can I share something with him while he's thinking? >> The council back when she was hired,

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which was apparently 2019, uh they set it at 90 grand and whoever we're going to take, we can't offer anything more than that. >> So, just for your edification. So, had she still been here, it would have been whatever we gave and raised. >> Go ahead, Glenn.

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>> Glenn, you're still going, right? >> Yeah. Yep. Yeah, I am. Oh. Oh, I'd like to see us add something about uh you know, if we're gonna talk about the standards that we want them to to have, the knowledge they want to have, but to

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be I think we should have a statement in there or I would suggest we do anyway, a statement about continuing education, uh that they are willing to pursue, you know, whatever it is that we require them to have because I I firmly believe anybody applying for these jobs, well,

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not anybody, but most anybody body that has the experience we're looking for are are going to get what they need to do. They they are learners by nature. Um but you know on the salary I would I would we had 58 applicants with the salary that we've advertised. I I don't think

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salary is the biggest problem that we're facing with uh facing uh in this position. So you know I'm I'm kind of okay with what it is. uh if we all want to talk about you know slight increase or something I'm will I'm willing to do that.

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>> How much time? >> Good. >> I'm good. Thank you. >> Thank you very much. >> Okay. So, um the last time we spoke about this, we were trying to pin down what the problem was as far as as far as why we couldn't get someone. And um I've

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got five points to bring up. And number one is qualifications. I'm not going to reiterate what's already been said, but I like what I heard and I think those are good qualifications. >> Uh, moving on. Um, there's I believe there's a sticking

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point where they work for either the city council or the uh city manager. Um, I noticed there was a common denominator on all the information that I read that Kobe put together and provided that um, seemed to be it it appeared as though

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Walton County is kind of an anomaly with both the city and the county. Um, Freeport uh there's answers to the city manager, we define springs and uh the

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BCC answers to uh the board which unless I overlooked something, nobody else does that. The the information that we were given. Mhm. >> So, um I think it's if we really wanted

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to attract someone, they want to come to work, they want to do their job, they want to do their 40 hours, they want to go home, they don't want to get involved in the politics. And uh I think it would since we've been

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report since it's been the position we've been advertising, it always says they report to the board. that doesn't seem to be working. So instead of doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results, um I think the in my opinion

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that the finance director should report directly to the city manager >> and I the the next thing is HR. So when HR >> what do you mean by HR? >> Um human resources. I know, but I mean

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what what's their connection? >> Well, they're going to sit in on the interview, right? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> I would highly recommend that Kobe and Danielle sit in on that interview, too, because they are the

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subject matter experts. >> Yeah. and Julie would be there just to make sure all the HR rules are being met and we're not going outside of the guidelines. But the subject matter expert on this would be Danielle. That's

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what she does. That's what she's done. >> So, um that would be number three. Number four, I was interested in the contract services if we couldn't come up with a person. Um if it was cla it was clarified

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uh that the last time we talked the reason there was a problem is because we weren't comparing apples to apples as far as meth uh methology goes. >> They had a different methodology and we than we did. Now they ended up getting

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to the same place but there was some communication there because of the method that they were going about doing it. So, um I thought that that would be a possibility if we couldn't come up with an individual. Um and then their salary.

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I think that what we said was whoever gets hired is going to get uh the the starting salary is $90,000. >> That'll be up to you guys. >> I mean, say that again. >> That'll be up to you guys. >> Okay. >> That's what the starting salary was in

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2019. That's all I was pointing out. >> Okay. I think that needs to be upped and I would like for the the council's feedback on what it should be. Um I'm thinking 110. >> We'll get in discussion in a few minutes. I just want you to state all

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your >> Okay. So, um, so basically, uh, I like everything I I like everything that Amy said as far as qualifications go. And I really like the idea of us trying a new direction

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based on what we haven't been able to do in the past and change it to direct report to the city uh manager with um Danielle and Kobe being on the interview board and and and

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we need to get out of the micromanagement business. We need to let them do their job. >> Yeah. >> Gotcha. You good? >> Yes, sir. All right. You ready to talk? >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. >> So, I think

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we've had as as Councilman Harrison pointed out at the last meeting, we've had 55 applicants. >> So, has not been for a lack of applicants. >> I I that that was a very interesting number to me that that still resonates with me right now is the fact that we

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haven't had a lack of applicants. We have set the bar the minimum to the maximum. And when you set the minimum to the maximum, you're going to get zero. So that's where we are. What I I agree that there there is a a consistency

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between five and seven years when you look at Chipley, Dest, Freeport, Fort Walton, Gulf, Breeze, Niceville, etc. It's between five and seven years. I think where we have again set the minimum to the maximum is if you go back and look and must have eight years of

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experience in local government accounting, public finance, business administration with four years of experience as chief financial officer, director of finance or assistant finance director. So we have that that last sentence four years of experience as a

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CFO a director or an assistant director I think is where we have just set it at the max and I think that's what is kicking everybody out >> when when I look at recall looking at all my resumes. So what I would like to

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see is bachelor's degree and leave leave all that alone. I would say that we have we could leave it we could go to five years. I'm flexible on that in terms of of experience. I think that we need to say that it is preferred

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that they have management experience. But we I like the I like the um I like the uh wording in some of these others saying progressive showing progressive responsibility. I think that we need to include some sort of language that says we want to see progressive

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responsibility. So I think that if my ideal qualifications would be bachelor's degree in accounting, public finance, business administration or closely related field and have at least eight years of experience in accounting

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and then we would say public finance, government experience and progressive responsibility are preferred and then from there we can make we can make a decision. So that's to me I would move I would move some of that down to the preferred line instead of the required

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line. And I think that that then opens us up to then look at some of these people and make a decision as a council. Um let me uh ask a question there on the uh on the uh 8year that we have. What did I

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do with it? There you go. >> Here it is. Okay. Experience. Okay. In local government, accounting, public finance, or business administration. Um, I'm trying to find out you're talking

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about eight years in a municipality or a >> I think that I think that they need to have either five or eight years of accounting experience. And then we pre we place preference on if they have had

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local government experience. >> Okay. All right. >> Much like we do with with CPA is preferred. GF GFGO is preferred. I you know I'm I'm I'm open to either

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five or eight years being the requirement of them. >> If if we're gonna if we're going to just open it up to accounting experience then maybe we go eight is my thought process. >> But again I I do think that I like including in the requirement that they

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show progressive responsibility. In other words, are they working their way up and in and managing teams and managing people and taking on additional responsibility? and we see that through their their resume where they're continually taking on more responsibility. And that doesn't mean

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that we have to hire somebody that doesn't have that, but that opens the door to be able to evaluate people >> because right now we can't right now we can't evaluate anybody. We we've rejected everybody. >> Okay. Anything on the salary? >> I'm

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I agree with with what's been said that I think we need to we need to go I think I think I threw this out last time. I think the base needs to be around 125 >> beginning. >> Yes, sir. >> Okay. All right. That's that's fine.

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That's what we need to hear from. Okay. We ready for Josh? >> Yes, sir. I'm done. >> Okay. Go ahead. >> Um I kind of agree with with what uh a lot of everybody's been saying. Um I think eight years is a little too high for the mandatory. I I would put it at

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five five years of progressively responsible experience in governmental finance related field. Um, that could be accounting just specified or or like uh this says, I think you need at least two years managerial experience minimum. I

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um and and I'm saying this because I I think this will draw in more applicants then we can see what we've got and then pick from say somebody's got five years of managerial experience or supervisory then if that's the person we want fine but let's get somebody in front of us to look at to see if they can do the job.

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Um, I just like everybody else, I would say that at least a bachelor's degree, masters or CPA preferred, but not required. I you can leave out the not required and just leave it preferred. >> Um, and then just like everybody else is saying working towards uh continuing

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education towards CGFO, CPA, etc. Um, just as long as they're continuing their education to further themselves and the the agency. Um when it comes to salary range for me looking at the others

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I think our top end's a little low but I think that um I think that it's workable I think it should be somewhere around 90 to 125 and then that way it with 125 being top end I don't know that that's what we want to hire at right now but um

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but at least it's comparable to the surrounding areas. >> Okay. All right. All right. That's good. That's real good. Okay. So, got a lot of things in common though, but we're going to open up as soon as Kobe gets done. Okay. All right, Kobe.

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>> Okay. Thank you, Mayor. Um, so yeah, in front of you again, Miss Chance put together, you know, of the the surrounding ones we pulled out, the qualifications, the salary information they provided to us. So, you can kind of see that on there. Um, we talked about

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where's my mouse? just looking at their the budgets of the cities and the populations of those cities which is what you see here. Um so again ultimately I think I think we're looking for the feedback we got tonight. So we're just at the end of the day we're looking for direction on how the council like to move forward. But

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>> go ahead. Um, I shared that in 2019 the council as a whole had set the salary range at 90 grand. So, whoever ended up going through all those interviews at that time, that's what they got and that's where it was. If that was the case, then as of today, the new salary that person

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was making would be at 107. So, I recommend let's at least start at 107 and then we can go upwards to the 125. If you get a candidate that's got all these preferred extras, then I would highly recommend that, you know, we can

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negotiate further other things that may not be monetary issues. Like I said, the put put some so many hours into their vacation bank that's worth cash. Uh, and it incentivizes, but I think if

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we could do that, I mean, I think that's a reasonable amount for a professional that we're searching for. I'm good with that. >> I I would like to mention what uh something about Mr. beerbomb that really is going to stick in my crawl that I would just wouldn't be able to support is this progressive that you're talking

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about because as you know prior to Danielle we had somebody that was in a utility director's position or whatever but finance she was some kind of position and she progressively stepped up to the plate but she didn't have even

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though she showed that desire she didn't have the skills and knowledge to do at the end of the day what it was that the auditors needed her to do for the city. And it it it really she made more complex issues trying to help not

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understanding or knowing that she was harming the process in in you know being progressive. So I I would just to me I'm they've got to have that uh managerial experience and at least five years of

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accounting. Um, I would not want that to be preferred, I guess, is what I'm saying. I want that to be mandatory. So, if you're flexible on that, >> what what would be your minimum years you want to see them as in a manager position? >> Two. >> Okay. >> All I want is five years of experience

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of accounting and two of those have to be supervisory because I'm going to tell you the other thing is the person that was the interim not too long ago, she expressed the biggest problem with managing is the people. there's a lot of people and a lot of deadlines and a lot

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of time and a lot of drama and that drama takes away from getting the skills done. >> So that I that's the only thing. >> So I I think we're we're close on that because my my point is right now we're saying that they have to be a CFO, a

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director or an assistant director. >> I've for me when I started this I eliminated all that. I don't it's too much when you look at the neighboring places, >> right? and I eliminated the colleges and the counties because they don't do the same thing that this finance director is going to do. I threw that out the

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window. I don't even know how we got there or I know we all worked as a team to get what that looks like today. So, I'm not pointing fingers. I'm sure I was part of it, but I just think 52 like all those other I have eight cities. >> Uh Mariana, Golf, Breeze, Niceville, Fort Walton, Chipley, Freeport, and

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Destin. I've got all of these things where I ranked them based on population, based on salary, based on mainly those four utilities. And >> but you're you're okay with with a more generic phrasing that is that just says that you're that they have at least two

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years of like management experience, right? Because I notice like um I think it was Fort Walton. Fort Walton kind of has a little bit of a in my opinion a little bit of a a vague way that they word it in that uh where does it say

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seven years of experience maintenance of governmental accounting systems in a responsible management position. >> So, you know, I I I just we we tend to have a more restrictive and and I just want to open that up. Here's here's what

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if I was going to make a motion, I wanted to direct staff to bring us back a job description. I don't want to sit here like we did task by task. >> You know what? At the end of the day, that's HR's job. Let them take all these neighboring cities and take our input

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and modify it to where we can all, you know, agree on. >> But you do, you are open for >> a little change in verbiage. Maybe >> they can change the whole thing. is all here's all the here's the language that I would per that I would get stick to

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five years of progressively responsible Florida government finance accounting experience including at least two years of supervisory experience >> I can we can we just strike the word Florida >> I I had a problem with that the last time

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I'd asked Clay about that at our last meeting because you know we are attracting other people but Alabama is doesn't have the same Florida is very specific. Florida is very unique. A lot of the other states don't have the requirements we do and it takes a while to get over those humps.

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>> I think they can pick it up though if you if you're taking somebody on from Enterprise or Dothan that's been functioning within municipality and working within utilities. Well, >> I think a lot I think a lot they can pick up on the Florida accounting standards, but >> I mean I I I've told the story several

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times of the the previous finance director telling me to my face, "Well, that's not how we did it in Troy. >> That's how we did it in Troy." and and I I think that and and that that kind of that kind of gave me apprehension that that's why I I

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leaned in and I supported a Florida requirement because I I felt like I got burned by that in in a in a previous finance director. So, I I get where where you're coming from, but again, I go back >> up a lot of things, but I don't think I would give up on that word Florida

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because it's very important to >> Okay. So, how many what is the minimum amount of years of Florida experiences you believe we have to have? Is it still five or could you go three? >> I'm not going to change any of that. I'm just saying that Oh, say that again. Oh, maybe you >> minimum minimum years of Florida

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experience because we're kind of rolling this all into one sentence and and we're we're we're kind of >> what what would what would you be happy with? >> I would say I would say three years of Florida. >> I will do I can deal with three, >> but they have to be like your last three or

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>> be five. Three of which are in Florida contiguous. >> Yeah. >> Your last three. >> Your last three. >> Last three or any three? >> Three of which? Yeah. >> I'll tell you what, I would even be jump. Yes, I would even be willing uh if they could demonstrate by showing

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us a set of financial statements that they did for sure. I'd be okay with something like that, but people can just pull the wool over your eyes at the very beginning until you really get and that's what I'm trying to prevent us from >> experiencing because I just don't want

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>> Well, I think I think we've seen we've seen both ends of the the spectrum, right? like like was brought up a minute ago, we had someone that showed showed progression but simply wasn't capable of performing as a finance director. But we also hired somebody that

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>> met all of our met every single box that we had checked, met every single box and yet they weren't able to perform either. So we we've seen we've seen the far ends of the spectrum and I think that that's where it then it relies I do want to say this it comes back to us and I I don't I

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don't think it's appropriate to to say well I'm going to let this subject matter expert over here tell me what what decision I need to make. We all put our name on a ballot so that we could make the decisions and relegating

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it to a subject matter expert is not is not governing. And for for me for me it's not governing to to to just say well I'm going to let this person over here tell me how to make my my decision. That's just not how I'm I'm willing to operate.

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>> Mr. I I think you know on the Florida on the Florida thing if if every if every state required every city in every state required their applicants for finance director to have experience in that particular state

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there would be 50 pools of finance directors you know for for vacancies. So I I just I I just firmly believe these people are professionals they can they can learn what they need to learn uh and learn it quickly because their job depends on it. uh they're going to be hired on a probationary status. Uh so

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it's a gamble for them, you know, to to take the job. So they're going to get after it. They're professionals. I' I've said before, I think they're learners by nature. They they have because things are constantly changing in in that world and and they have to be on their toes and up to date with the training. You

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know, just like teachers, you you have to be up to date on your, you know, all your training to keep your certifications and get additional certifications. all that's just the nature of professionalism. So, I think we're, you know, I've just got confidence that we we can find somebody

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that can feel that. Um, I think we're e even tacking on, you know, the the last two years of experience in Florida. I still think we're limiting ourselves to Florida. Um, in in the pool, we had a lot of applicants from a lot of other places that weren't all they weren't all

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from Florida. Um, and some of those were probably have been good good applicants to to interview under these new things that we are just now discussing. Um, so I don't know. I I just I just think the FL and I get it. I get what you're

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saying, uh, Amy. I I completely understand it, but I just I think I think people can do it. I mean, they can get it. a while ago about continuing ed. I think that that in in the interview that the manager whoever needs to bear down on that particularly if you have a

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lack of experience or maybe a slight weakness in this area we expect you to go get some training. >> Absolutely. >> They're willing to do that. Um >> so are we at >> are we at five years >> and of that five years we are we are

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saying there's two requirements to make that five years. You have to have three years of Florida experience >> and three years of management experience. Or or do we we said two. Okay. >> Yeah, >> that's right. That's correct. >> Two. Okay. >> Yeah.

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>> Mayor, >> what about the Oh, sorry. >> Go ahead, Dan. >> Okay. So, did we just agree on the five years uh and the and the two years management experience? >> Three of its management and two of I

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mean two of its management. and three of them Florida. >> Okay. The reason that I'm leaning toward the last three being from Florida is because every legislative session there are new laws, there's uh amendments to

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statutes over and over and over. And if you're in the game of Florida and you know how they're operating and they keep up with those Florida statutes and the changes every year, um

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I think we would have a more seamless fit because I don't like the idea of coming in here on training wheels and trying to use this the city of Definiac Springs as a training ground. I really would in a

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perfect world like for them to come in come in here already up to speed on what our Florida statutes are and the rules and requirements and administrative codes and everything that goes along with being a finance director. Um, so

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do we agree on the on the 52 and the three and the last three being in Florida? Do we agree on that? >> I would I don't want to I don't want to say last. I just want to say >> and I'm okay with just three. I don't it don't have to be first, second, third,

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fourth. I don't care what it is. As long as you know it, >> you've got some knowledge. >> Is that required or preferred? >> For me, it's >> that's say required. >> Required. >> Yeah. >> And our neighboring cities say that too if I'm not mistaken.

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>> That that's >> see Gul Breeze does. Um just a minute. I'm just getting to the It's so tiny. I forgot to bring my computer to blow this up. Hold on. I need a magnifying glass.

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>> I sure can't help you. >> Yeah, Dan. Dan, I think the thing to to think about with this is this is just what we want to allow us to review. >> This doesn't compel us to hire anybody that that we all get a vote, right? So

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if if you if you say, "Hey, I don't think that this is the way we should vote on this person because of X, Y, and Z," then that's that's what we all have to make our case for. >> Okay? Which brings up a real good point. And if I'm the only one that feels this

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way, this is the last you'll hear it. But I'd like to know what the council members think about saying, Julie, Danielle, Kobe,

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this is what we highly recommend. Now you take the ball and run with it and let them do their job. And one of the things that we respectfully disagree on is I'm pretty much stuck on subject

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matter experts. And make no doubt about it, Daniel knows what she's doing and she's she's done a remarkable job. Um, I have a lot of respect for her being able to sniff out somebody that doesn't

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need to be here and somebody that deserves to be here. So, I'd like to know if the board if the council would be willing to take our highly recommended suggestions. These are our these are our guard rails. These are our

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guidelines. This is what we're looking for. Now, y'all take this and do your job. Is there anybody that would be interested in considering that? >> But I I think you got preferred and then you got kind of mand mandatory. Go

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ahead. Are you asking who the reporting manager is? >> That >> is that what you're talking about? >> That and selection. >> Well, he's talking about se the selection. >> He's talking about completely turning it up. >> I would like over to them >> and and these these folks here, they all

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report to their city managers. We're the only >> That's what I'm talking about. >> Out of eight. Here's >> Okay. I thought you were talking about in the the actual hiring all the parameters. >> He's talking about both. He's talking about both. >> I'd like to talk about that because I think all of us do.

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>> What I mean is that Kobe and Danielle and Julie say we've interviewed all these people and we've ca we came down to either this one person that stands out

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above all else or two people or three people. This is what we're deciding. These are the best fit. Um, so let them let them do the work on finding out who's the best qualified

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and let them direct report to the city manager. >> Okay. So, I want to make sure I'm right here. >> So, I'd like to I'd like to know y'all's opinion on this. >> Yeah, but but what I'm trying to get out of you, you're talking about a minimum requirements will be based on those three after we get through with our

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conversation. >> I I think I think it's a cart before the horse. What's the what's the point of talking about all this if we're just going to hand it over to them and say hire somebody? >> I'm just trying to report to you clear what Sam's intention is. >> We're giving them guidelines to go by. >> All right. Are they going to be hard

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that or just suggestions? >> I'd like to get the council's feedback on that. >> Go ahead, Amy. >> Here's what I'm going to recommend or suggest and I would like to see what everybody has to say. And I think you're you're you're in agreement with what I'm going to try to articulate. Okay.

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>> Thank you. >> Mariana, Golf Breeze, Niceville, Fort Walton Beach, Chipley, Freeport, and Destin. They all report to the city manager. We are the only one that they report to the council. And I'm not sure I can suspect why it reports to the

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council because of whatever hiccup happened that resulted in the report. You know, something happened way back when. And I think that's why I don't think any of us were on here uh when that decision was made. Were you

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you're the you're the most senior. Were you on the board when that happened when it came? Okay. >> So, I would like for the finance director's position not to report to us. >> Correct. >> Everything I need I get from the city

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manager. I would like >> Clay when he showed up on this topic. Uh Clay, is there a kosher way of the uh finance director

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um contacting the council with any potential issues they're concerned about? I know that you would hope that they and the city manager would have a good enough relationship that that would never have to ride over him, but I think

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the council, some of the council members would probably feel a little better if they had that open door to reach out to the five council members >> or even legal. >> But but they already do. I mean, we already had the opportunity. I don't go

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to Kobe when I want to talk to the finance director. >> Well, then that's a violation of the city charter. >> I'm sorry. >> That' be a violation of the city charter. >> Well, I've asked from the beginning. So, and I even asked legal this and they and legal advised me. Look, you can go and talk to them. You can you can go ask

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them for information and the policy says provide it does not go above. But I think what the mayor's asking about is something different. >> Yeah. >> But there's a fraud policy there or some kind of like if there was that kind of level I think of what you're talking about that they had a concern. Don't we

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already have Kobe some kind of policy that would allow them to step above their manager and go to someone other than especially if their manager was part of the problem that they were >> they had to go to all of I would you suggest Clay >> that they would have to contact the

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entire council. >> They would have to contact the entire council. Yes, sir. That's exactly we talked about 22. >> Yes, of course. Or they can come to a council meeting and do it in public if they prefer to do it that way. And that's not indifferent than what you have now. When you look at how it is set

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right now, the council in consultation with the mayor appoints the finance director. But for removal and discipline back in 2019, the council changed that where the council can remove the finance director

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or the city manager within the personnel policies has the ability to both discipline and remove the finance director and suspend them. Otherwise, now the council has the ability to overturn that decision if it disagrees with the manager's action. >> Um, but right now, the way it is structured is it is a concurrent

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reporting role at this point in time. The only thing that the council has unilateral control over is the hire. So, if you talk about the reporting structure, it is a dual report right now. >> And we're and according to my research based on all of this stuff, we're the only ones that that that is structured

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that way out of eight of our neighbors. But for me, >> yeah, >> having having been through, right, so I I came on the council right after it was within a year, if not two years after the grand jury and all of that fallout.

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Okay. And then I had a city manager that denied me access to the interim finance director because technically they were still a direct report to the city manager at that time. They weren't technically a finance director, but yet they were preparing the budget and I had

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questions about the budget and I said, I want to go to them directly and have a conversation. Nope, you can't do that. >> So, would you would you want that to happen to you if you have questions about the budget? >> I >> because that's that's what would happen. That happened to me, >> okay, >> in the last six years.

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>> You know what I learned by sitting up here? Kobe's responsible for the budget. So, if you have a budget issue, we're that won't even be a concern because according to the ordinance or whatever you shared with me, you're in charge of that budget. But I think that a one time

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bad experience doesn't mean we just throw the whole thing that it would happen again. I think we've got a great city manager. Now, I hear what you're saying, don't >> you? You had the grand jury make that suggestion. >> I I have the grand jury report right here. I've outlined all of it and what

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they're recommended for this for that. So, I get what you're saying >> and I I'm in no way, shape, or form saying that Kobe is the same as as that particular manager was. >> But to have had that happen post grand jury finding where I was denied access

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to someone because here's the reality, those employees were coming to me in confidence and saying, "He's fudging the numbers. He's rounding stuff. He's hiding stuff from you." So when I tried to follow the correct official path per the charter and say I want to go talk to them, I was told no.

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>> And did you reach out to the auditors? Because that is that is like mandatory if you look at all the rules of accounting. It's like did you did you reach out to whoever was auditing our >> No that because you know how they contact us like when they're doing their

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audit they come to each one of us and say are you aware of anything this that happened in the period that we're under audit for have did you know anything did you know anything and they ask they randomly >> they they never they never approach me about that >> that I don't know but it's mandatory

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Todd and they do do that I I don't know who they spoke to this year uh But >> I've I've never had any of the auditors come up and ask me that question. >> Well, they do they do ask that. >> It might be a little delay in doing it this way, but there's nothing more

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powerful than the council giving a direction >> or even giving you permission to go in and and ask these questions. You can't go in there and direct anybody, but you can go in there and ask questions. But I'm just saying so, but the problem is you would have had to ask it in front of

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the council, you know, so it may be a week after you wanted to do it. But, you know, the council can override anything except the charter. >> Clarify that because I I don't maybe I don't understand because I if I need something, I just go upstairs and ask.

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>> That's fine. If but if you were resistant like he was, >> then you could come back to the council say, "Listen, I was just trying to inquire on such and such. I I'm I'm >> But he knows. Okay. But but see here here's here's the problem with that scenario. And this this was the problem

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that that that was was occurring was I had those employees coming to me in confidence and saying we need to dig into this further. >> He's he's glossing over some of this and he's just he's just filling in the blanks to make to make it balance. >> He's not truly doing what he's supposed to be doing.

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>> But if I revealed that I knew that information, he would have known exactly who was telling me that. there's only there's only two or three people in the finance position. So, he would have immediately known that they were coming to me on the side and telling me what they were telling me at the time. So, I couldn't betray that and say, "Well,

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this is what I know publicly because then I would have betrayed their confidence." >> So, that that's the problem. That's why to me that's why I am so adamant that we we leave this structure the way it is because we went through all of this in 2019. >> Yeah. and and if we move them under the

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city manager, the charter kicks in and the charter kicks in. The charter says we can't go to any other employee besides him without his permission. And in that instance, I was denied that permission. >> Well, on the other side of the spectrum,

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whether they were guilty or not, if you had five couns Oh, what a nightmare. And that's what this says. It says, >> "Show me where where that's happened." Show me where that's been a problem. >> Well, I'm just saying you open the door for me. >> I will. Wait, wait, wait, wait. >> Show me where that's been a problem.

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>> Say say it again. >> But we've got that now based on what Amy said earlier. If she's already going to finance to ask questions and get information when she wants it. That's one. So take all four all the four of rest of us go up there every day and start doing that every day. Then we're

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interfering with their daytoday at that point. So realistically, but I'm agreeing with what Todd's saying. >> Oh, I do too. >> I would rather be able to go to >> I know the other side of that thing. It's a nightmare for the manager. >> And I think that's why at the time we didn't have a policy whereby if those

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employees were correct and there was a concern and he was fraudulently doing something that he shouldn't have been doing like filling in the blanks or uh that policy that has now this said you you guys need to get one and we did. Kobe says we have one. So

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that policy now should be adopted and and maybe we relook at it, Todd, to address the questions that you're or concerns you're having so that that doesn't because none of us up here want that kind of >> but I too don't want to >> the one thing the one thing that we can all go to jail for and it look over in

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Bay County is money. >> I'm not going to jail for money. >> I protected a lot of people. >> I'm not I'm not going to jail for money. And if that means making sure that I I can talk to the finance director when I feel it's appropriate, when I have someone tip me off and I can't betray that confidence, to me, that's something

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I'm going to fight for. >> I I I think, you know, they ruled the way they did because of the problem that the city had then. But they haven't ruled in that way to every other city in the state of Florida. In fact, the majority of cities in the state of

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Florida, the city manager hires the finance director. So, I think I think, you know, we're looking back and I understand your your concern totally. I I get it. But I also have a concern with what

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uh Councilman Scanders just said about five of us going and you know and it can it can completely interfere and even though not intended it can intimidate a finance director and make them you know very skeptical about staying or finishing out at the end of

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their probationary period whatever. you know, we've had we we have a city manager who's who who has seen us through and combined with Danielle um some some some some tough periods to

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straighten out our finances and get us through a clean audit. Um providing us monthly financial reports that is that is done at this point. and you know and and to me if I had a concern with the city manager the and I wasn't on the

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council back then but but the way I I would handle it would be if if the city manager did the hiring and the finance director reported to them like we're just discussing and if I had a question and I had concern about something the employee told me something was going on I would

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go to the city manager and we would sit down with the finance director And so at that point in time, you know, that finance director is obligated ethically um and beyond ethically to reveal any

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any uh any wrongdoing that's taken place. Am I am I correct in that, Clay? >> Technically, no. They're they're ethically obligated not to participate in it. Um, but the

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whistleblower act provides them the ability to disclose, but that is up to them to disclose. There are plenty of employees in any corporate environment, any governmental environment that simply say, "I'm going to keep my mouth shut because even though whistleblower says I can't be punished or fired, I'm not

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going to say a word about it." Are they are they go now, if they know about it, could they become complicit? Could it become a situation where they are in trouble? Absolutely right. But does that mean they have to come tell you? No.

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Could they go tell the state attorney? Sure. Could they go tell somebody else? But I guess the real question for you and I I I would like to kind of rec couch how y'all are approaching this is if the question is who hires the finance

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director. There are a lot of ways to do that. I will note that we talked about a bunch of those during the charter. We went through two charter review committees and I think we looked at about every model we could find from the

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manager hiring. Um at the time the city manager made a suggestion that if the council didn't want to give up full authority that um they could shortlist and let the council pick among their short list. Council had to basically confirmation process so to speak just like the US Senate confirms the

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president's appointments. And the opposite was also proposed at one time, which would be that the council could give them a short list and let the manager do the interview and hire. Both of those were proposed. Ultimately, those were both rejected and the city the p the public vote on the charter has

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presented. Um, with that being said, I think that's one question that keeps coming up is who hires. And if the belief is that we're not getting applicants or hires because the hiring is an option of the manager is not of

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the manager right now, then that's one thing to take up. But I do want to be clear because the second part of that question, the reason I'm very being very semantic and I get yes, it's because I'm a lawyer. But why am I being a lawyer on this point is very simple. The second part of that who fires

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this council if they want to get rid of a position can defund a position by voting right up here. So if they want to get rid of a finance director, they can defund the finance director position right then and there. They can defund anybody he hires. That's how it works

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because his hiring is only subject to the city's budget. So do be aware that just the council being able to fire somebody does not necessarily remove that threat. But who hires that's one conversation. Who they report to is an

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entirely separate conversation. And that is what the grand jury focused on. The grand jury is very clear that we need to have delineated org charts for various positions including finance director and also that we need to clean up the responsibilities between this man's position and the finance director's

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position. Now that's been done. If the council wants to do more of it, I think that's exactly what the grand jury was was suggestive of is that you have to look at these issues and evolve as you do. The biggest criticism the grand jury had about the organizational form of

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government was it was as they called it a hybrid. But why was it a hybrid? Because it evolved over the years. So what I'd say is I don't know that's as simple as saying hire fire report. There are three different issues. So I I would think in that context you got to decide

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what we're looking at. If we're looking at who's going to make this higher, have that conversation. If you're looking at regardless of who makes it higher, who do they report to? the council can give away reporting authority if it wants. Um, but ultimately right now, the way it's structured,

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even if you change the reporting authority and let's say you go back to the reporting authority that says they report directly to the manager, the manager hires them, you then have to turn to the ordinance itself. And the ordinance itself details certain things

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the finance director is required to do. And that's where I think you have additional issues that you have to look at. For instance, the finance director is supposed to attend all meetings of the city council and has the right to participate.

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So they don't have to talk, but they have the right to be here and they have the right to attend. So unless you change the ordinance, they're going to still have that right even though they're hired by him. That's going to put them in a different spot than every other employee day one. If you change the org chart, they have to advise the council on a monthly basis of the finan

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of the current financial condition of the city and furnish to the city council and manager a budget summary at the first monthly meeting of each month which reflects the city's financial condition through the end of the preceding month. You need to change that if you're wanting to change the org chart because that's a reporting

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function to the city council. Um, I can go I mean I'm not going to read you A through J of 2-60, but what I what I guess I'm suggesting is it is a much broader conversation of changing the reporting authority because you're going to need also need to change that

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ordinance if you want to take away all those responsibilities. That's that's what happened there. >> I say we just get someone hired. Let's let's change qualifications. Let's get someone hired. And if we want to come back and clean some of this up and and continue to evolve, we can do that.

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>> I agree. Go ahead, Amy. >> Uh, does the ordinance have the mandatory requirements in it or just the duties? >> The ordinance also has qualifications >> because we've changed. We're going to change those. We already all agreed those are going. So, we're going to have

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to rewrite this ordinance anyway. So I say we scrap it all and we just write it the whatever we decide today. >> We just have the attorney write >> according to whatever we decide. >> Does it have to be that detailed? >> Mayor

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I wasn't finished. >> Bring up the date. >> We did a fiveyear minimum. Uh as far as city experience we had that three of which need to be in the state of Florida. >> Okay. and two of which need to be in management position.

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>> Okay. >> Supervisor. >> So five or three too. Yeah. >> It's a but it's the fiveyear and >> five five years two supervisory but three we is going to be in the state of Florida. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. 532 523. >> That's about what we've all agreed on so

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far. Right. >> But I'm trying to get everybody to agree that it reports directly to the city manager like the seven or eight other neighboring cities. And Clay, I would just point out because I went through this line by line and tried to pick out all the grand jury statements where it

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said that I think the biggest problem was the reporting structure of who the finance director went to is unclear and the relationship was unclear and they didn't know who to tell when they had certain concerns. And so from me reading

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what the their recommendations were was basically make it more clear, make it so that there is no confusion in that language. So to me it should be the city manager. I I don't think it should be us. It's it's fine if they put those reports that Clay's reading from the

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ordinance to us, but you know, since I've been sitting here and and there was a finance director for several periods, the first whole year and whenever Danielle was the interim, they never stop they never once talked or offered

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anything up. You know, it always came by way of either a report or through Kobe. So those are just my observations >> and I agree under findings they talk about exactly what you said about question about who the finance director's boss is. That's one of the

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findings. The recommendation specifically though >> which has been addressed was clear job descriptions also need to be written for the city manager and the finance director, and the chain of command needs to be more structured. >> And then it also said we need to evaluate positions within the finance

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department. But it doesn't say it has to be us, the council for finance. That's all I was trying to say. I'd like to see it back to the city manager. >> Dan, >> well, it's never solely been the same, just to be clear. >> Okay. So, let's just say

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for sake of conversation that we decide to put this under the city manager if we have a question. And I'm under the impression that if we have a question just for ed self-education and knowledge

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of how the city operates, we can go to any employee in the city and ask questions to try and learn. We cannot give them direction. We have to go through Kobe for that. >> Provided your questions don't interrupt

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their daily activities or otherwise stop. For example, >> if co if the finance director answered directly to Kobe, but I had a finance question, I could just ask a question. >> It would depend on what the question is

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is all I'm saying, Mr. Cos in the abstract. Yes, you are correct. To Councilman Beerbomb's point, I guess it is it is absolutely possible that question could encroach in something. You got to go to the manager, too. And if it does, it does. I give I can give a million hypotheticals that go both ways.

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>> Okay. So >> friends, you could call Julie tomorrow and say, "How many open positions do we have?" She could answer that within a reasonable amount of time. You say, "Julie, how many open positions have we had on average for each of the last 10

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years? At least provide me every applicant." >> Okay, >> Julie sitt there saying, "Please don't do So what I'm saying is I'm just giving you two extreme examples. >> Okay. >> But you can ask a simple question. >> So So in regards to what you said, Todd, about the problem with being able to

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have access to the finance director and how the city manager was stonewalling you. Okay. I was sitting on the sidelines as John Q public watching this as just a a regular citizen. And y'all did the right thing. Were you on the

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board? You were on the board at that time. >> Yes, sir. >> And you know what the solution was? You fired the city manager. >> That was the solution. >> And y'all did the right thing by firing that city manager. >> But but the flip side of that now that

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you're up here on the dis is we as a council also caught a lot of flak a lot of flak for firing him there. And that that's the thing that you still here. He's not for now.

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That's the thing that you don't realize until you're sitting in this chair is and and I I I openly admit this. I was also John Q public before I got elected and I had a lot of preconceived notions and then when I got up here and sat in

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this chair, I realized there's a whole other side of the story that I wasn't getting sitting out there in every single meeting. >> Yeah. And that that has changed my calculus in the way I lead 100%. And I caught a lot of flack and was

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called racist and called all kinds of names for firing him. But what the public didn't know was what I just was just one of many examples of the things that I knew from behind the scenes that I wasn't going to just sit up here and air the dirty laundry of the city of Definiac Springs at every single council

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meeting. But I knew from behind the scenes was going on. >> And all that flack that you said you caught, you went back in your seat unopposed. So you did the right thing and the public thought you did the right thing and you did. >> Still doesn't change the fact that we all had to to weather that.

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>> Yeah. And I got a whole lot more gray right here and up here than I did whenever I was when I got elected. >> It won't be long you look like this. >> It takes a to it takes a toll on you. >> Go ahead, Glenn. >> Yeah, that's >> that's why we get paid the big bucks, right?

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>> Make those kind of decisions and we get, you know, and we do catch flack if we make a decision. The public doesn't understand the background, you know, noise involved with the situation. But, you know, city manager is ultimately responsible, you know, and so anyway,

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uh, you know, back to, you know, the the Florida experience thing. There's nobody on this list that Miss Julie gave us, uh, of our neighbors that we're comparing to that requires Florida experience. Um, the only one that comes close is G

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Breeze, I believe it was. Um, yeah, Gulf Breeze, Florida experience preferred, but none of these others do. The counties don't and these these other local cities don't re require it. Um, so

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I I don't I don't know. I just I just think that's a a limitation for us. But I mean, I'm only one person. >> I I agree with you, Council. >> Whatever y'all >> I think I think that should be preferred. you know that you can determine a lot through interviews, but

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we've seen people that have come through interviews with flying colors. >> Mhm. >> Who, you know, 6 months year later is not even in it. So, >> but but anyway, so that's kind of Dan, is that what you're boiling down to a while

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ago to put as much as we can in the preferred so that they could make that final decision in the interviews? No, he he's wanting to he's wanting to completely shift the the structure. >> City manager. >> Okay. >> All right. But what I'm trying to find

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out is uh when you guys give guidelines hopefully today we walk out here today that uh you'll distinguish real clearly what is mandate and what is preferred. >> I I I guess I would like to add to it.

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Instead of scrapping everything, I say we just tweak what we have agreement on right here. Let's put it back out there and let's let's see what kind of applicants we get. >> Somebody already did. Before we even got to this seat right now, I've seen an advertisement out there for the city for

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the finance director. So, I thought that was foolish knowing that we were going to be doing this today and changing the qualifications. The old qualifications are >> are out there >> are out there. >> Okay. >> Because they advertised it today. >> Okay. >> Well, it's just running until you change it. Then we'll update it.

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>> If we want to go another two months without having out there, we'll gladly take it down and go two more months. >> Well, this is all to motivate us to get the changes done. >> Yeah. I'm sorry. >> So, can we do we want to do what Councilman Beerbomb's suggesting and just go to what we all agree on or do we

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want to break this up into three votes and then let's decide on it? That way we can decide on qualifications, we can decide on a hire, and we can decide on who's going to manage them. I would like to make a motion to let's do it that way. I do want to bring up one thing though with what Councilman Beerbomb's

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been talking about with him not being able to go to finance some of that and I'm I'm not saying this meeting Kobe I don't I don't want to go this way but even with the fire decision when we were voting on that I want you to understand that when you were wanting Chief

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Sheffield to come down here and talk a lot of those times or firefighters that I wanted to hear from I respected his decision and saying I'm the city manager I'm their boss. I'm going to answer to that. I'm not meaning it negative, but I want you to see that that's already

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happened here to some extent. And again, it's not negative, and I understand why. I just want you to see though that what he said is somewhat quasi already happening a little bit. It's not to that extent. So, I don't want to even make it

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sound like it is, but when we're comparing apples to apples, that is something to think about. I'm good either way. I'm good with splitting this up or I'm good with >> Go ahead, Amy. Come on. Or what? >> Can I start it because I'd like to make a motion. May Can I do one at a time? >> To make a motion.

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>> All right. I make a motion to revise the minimum experience requirement for the finance director to five years of progressively responsible government finance accounting experience, including at least two years of supervisory experience.

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>> Second. >> Three years. three years preferred in Florida. >> There you go. >> Second. >> I don't want to do my rest. I want to do them separate if that's okay. >> That's fine. All right. We got a motion. Second. Uh questions on that motion.

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>> So, you're moving the three years of Florida experience to the preferred category. >> That's right. >> Okay. And two years of management experience. >> If management's fine. I said two years of supervisor. >> Okay, that's fine.

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>> May I make one possible suggestion about the per if you're going to do the preferred >> just say Florida experience preferred. >> Okay. >> So, >> but but my point would be >> I change it to add whatever he said. >> Yeah. Okay.

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>> Yeah. But because I'm saying if they got 10 years of preferred experience, if they have 10 years in Florida and somebody else comes in with three, they're both getting the same preference. So Florida's experience is preferred then you still evaluate them on the merits of who they are versus somebody's got two years and it's the

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only one we got just they Florida experience is then figure out what their experience is amended her motion >> well it's just removing the three years it's saying it's preferred Florida experience is preferred but it's not unmounted time >> I I made a second and I think as far as

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the voting order of voting goes it's Todd's turn >> yeah I'll just >> I went first last time I Oh, I weren't here at the last meeting. >> We're calling for a vote. >> Yeah, I made a motion. >> Any any questions from the public? >> Okay. All in favor say I.

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>> I. >> I. >> I. >> I. I. >> I. Carrie. >> Okay. I'd like to make another motion to revise the reporting structure for the finance director position to clarify that the position reports directly to the city manager consistent with our

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comparable neighboring municipalities and to remove any language creating dual or overlapping reporting expectations. >> Second reporting, not hiring. >> This is just reporting. Well, if it reports to the city manager, it' be his

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responsibility to hire. Yes, >> we need to specify that because those are two different things. >> Yeah. >> I'm sorry. Say it again. >> Well, we do need to specify that you're changing the hiring and firing. So, you're saying you want to change, not just reporting. The grand jury is very clear. Reporting and the hiring firing

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were two different issues. So, if you're wanting at all change where it's all under the manager, that would be two separate. We'd be both be changing 2-60 and 2-57. And you're going to have to change other things too because we just changed the experience. >> Change the most recent adopted ordinance

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that applies to 2-59 that we did last year. >> Yeah, because we just changed to that one. >> So, does she need to amend her motion? >> Well, she wants him to have higher fire. Yes, I would like that included. >> Okay. >> Do you want the city manager have total authority over that position? >> That that's exactly what I'm

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recommending. That's what my motion is. The reporting structure is the finance director is like everybody else in the city >> including hiring and firing >> including hiring and firing and not to this city council.

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>> Okay. All right. Do we have a second? >> I've seconded. >> All right. Uh questions, comments from anyone. All in favor say I. Nay. >> Nay. Hi. >> Poor Mr. Harrison. >> I'm going to vote my confidence from

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Kobe. I >> I carried. >> Okay. >> All right. >> And I have one more. >> Okay. >> Motion. I make a motion to direct staff to review and revise the job description to improve clarity, remove overlapping responsibilities, and align the position

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description more closely with professional standards and comparable municipal finance director positions in our surrounding jurisdictions. >> That's a motion to direct staff. I guess I could just say I just want to direct >> Yeah, we might not even need a motion

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because it's your job now. >> As long as everyone agrees. Mhm. >> Why not? >> I'm good with it. I do agree with what Todd was saying there. We need to talk about pay again. >> Say it again. >> The pay. >> Pay. >> Oh, well, I didn't hear what he said. So,

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>> he he was saying and we need to look at >> Let me make a comment. >> We need to we need to address pay. >> Let me make a comment on it before y'all make a motion. if uh uh and I'm thinking about me looking in on this is but you may have someone who doesn't have tremendous amount of experience but

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they're very well qualified and if you put your low end too high and you you hire them in at the low end now you hire them in at the low end and so I know I think you mentioned 108 or something like that >> what what I was suggesting was it was 90

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back in 2019 that this d that and if that person would still be there, they'd be making 107 today. So for me, the range that where it sits right now, which is 76 to 109, I think we just change the upper end to 125, leave it at

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the lower end at 76 and take it up to 125. >> I'd just spread it out a little further because if he comes in at 107 or eight, hey, I'm nine above their low end. And the way the policyy's written too,

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if we if I try to start someone higher than the minimum, y'all have to approve the pay. That's right. So, >> okay. But y'all see what I'm saying? >> Oh, yeah. That's right. >> So, are we saying the minimum is 107? >> It was 100. You really want You figured you going to have to hire him at 108. >> Well, you just made him feel a lot

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better. >> Didn't you just say it was 70 there? >> I think it's 76 to 109 right now is the existing spread. >> 72 and some change to 109 and some change. >> I just moved that. I >> Oh, 72. I'm sorry. Thank you for that. >> 722,000 a year to be the finance

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director. Is that that's the low end? >> Yeah, that's the low end and it goes right now 109 and change. >> So, you're saying leave it at that or what were you saying? >> I'm saying leave the low end, but maybe let's modify the high end up to one and a quarter. >> Yeah. >> And he's right. He has to come back here

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anyway and get approval and we'll have to have it in the budget if we're going to hire somebody at >> Can we just modified at that time then if >> and you know then we can look at the experience then we touch >> well then he's got a budget is the problem but the high end's got to be the higher end

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>> you'll be hiring them right >> to get some attraction >> okay so you just made a motion >> no >> no no we I did not not on that issue but I think we were just discussing it Um, >> okay. >> So, what would it look like low and high

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when we put it out in the search right now? >> 72,000 up to 125. >> We would actually still start there. >> Kobe, how how is it being advertised right now? So, >> 72. >> Does it say depending on qual? So, is

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that in the in your advertisements that range or Oh, okay. >> Yeah. >> Okay. I'm sorry. I did not realize we're still going to put that low number in there, but go ahead. What do you think it should be? Because you're >> Well, >> you're you're suggesting you push it some. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would be at

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least 10 10 or 15 more than that. >> More than what? >> I mean, my god, if they come in 70 something, we they must not be working. >> So, maybe we should Are you saying that we should >> that bottom should be the minimum? >> Freeport's 85 to 125. >> That sounds good. That sounds real good. >> So, so match Freeport at 85.

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>> What's their population? >> They're above us. They're way above us. Ours was six. I do have them, but they were like seven or eight online. >> But see, the same people that tells us we're at 6,000 tells me that they're only at eight. >> So, if you want to believe that, go right. >> We're closer to 13 or 44

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about 78 to 85 right here. >> I'll make a motion difference >> that we First of all, is there a problem with us modifying the is the I don't know where the pay scale comes from. Is it from a uh uh >> from I believe 2020 or 2021 was the last

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time city >> modify whatever well >> okay >> theoretically you can modify whatever you want for right now >> since it's professional >> well because we have not amended the ordinance even though your motion's passed the moment that ordinance amends and report to city manager you're going to have to go through the standard

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salary studies and this is going to become a petition like everybody else >> do it now >> so you can go ahead and do it now while you have the chance >> all right so I make a motion that we modify by the pay range for the finance director position so that it goes from

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85 to 125. >> Second. >> Okay, we have a motion. >> Say we'll have May >> as well vote on that. All right. Uh any questions, comments >> from anyone? >> All in favor say I.

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>> I. >> I. >> I. >> I. >> I. Carry. All right. We got two of them knocked down. I saw a little bit. >> We're making some major progress. >> Okay. Is there anything else other than uh >> uh Clay, could you modif could you or

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Kobe somebody take that ordinance and show us what we've got to change and send it to us so that we can do it on our first meeting when we return in June. >> So we'll have it for your first meeting in June. You will have your first reading available and then you will have

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second reading public hearing production will lead to be your second meeting in June or 1st of July. >> Can you advertise before it's completed? No, >> I can advertise but I still have to have two readings in the search. >> Yes, because they have agreed to change

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that the ordinance is under amendment. You just can't hire until the ordinance is changed. >> Okay. But we can advertise for that new number. >> Correct. >> Okay. Were we going to Were we going to readvertise for a firm? I know we we let the other firm go. Were we going to readvertise?

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>> I say throw it out there and see what we can do now. >> Wait, >> were we I'm asking where we going to >> head hunters. >> Do another head. >> We need one. Should we let HR take care of it like they do her and Kobe rest of these? >> I I'm agreeable to whatever.

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>> I think it's going to be a whole lot more attractive. Would would it be >> I don't know who all it's getting out to. >> Sorry. >> I don't know who it's getting out to. >> What are your films on? >> What do you think? >> I say we do both. >> I couldn't hear you. >> You got a good enough spread.

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>> Do you think we should go back out to a vendor? >> I think I think we should we should self- advertise, but I think we should put out a put out a RFP for uh head hunters. >> Um >> my thing is is that's going to take a lot of time. That would be my only concern. Okay. Funny.

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>> So, on that subject, when Glenn said he has faith in Kobe, >> I think we should give Julie the chance before we start spending more money on a head hunter. >> Well, what are you talking about? RFP is

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not going to cost us anything. >> But if things don't happen quickly, then we could go to the chosen. But if we're if we're concerned about the the load that they're under, uh, giving them the ability because we approve of an RFP for

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a head hunter to help them, that helps them. >> That doesn't hurt them. That only helps them. We're augmenting their their capabilities. >> And what's estimated cost? >> I mean, the previous ones range between 18 and 21. That was the previous ones.

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>> Yeah. Okay. >> Have you got the money? Yes, I think that was a question Councilman Ber had asked last time about how much is left from that budgeted position. Um, so we're probably in a conservative number about 155,000 remaining from what we budgeted for that FTE.

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>> So we should be good. >> Okay. And and by the time we award a >> RFP >> an RFP that we probably already got somebody hired. >> But you don't know. You don't know. >> No. But if we don't, we're that far

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ahead. That's right. That's right. At that point, >> I'd say do it. >> Yeah. >> Do we need a motion, >> Clay? >> No, you do not need a motion. We know what we're going to do. We got direction unless Kobe says he wants further clarification. >> No, I'm think we just we'll just update the job description and let it run run the RFP at the same time and then

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because you still, like I said, you still got two hearings of the ordinance. >> The RFP is going to come back on the consent agenda is why you don't need a motion when you actually >> I disagree just so y'all are aware. I'm I mean do what you got to do, but I'm not in agreement. I don't know if there's others that have disagree, but

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>> well, >> you you just don't want to do a a head hunter. >> All right. >> Right. >> I'm thinking we should just try it in house. Keep it in house. If if something doesn't transpire within the first month, then yeah, then I will change my mind and say, "Okay, well maybe." But

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>> well, I think that's what we're talking about doing is doing them concurrent. So, we would re we would update advertisements, but bid at the same time. So again, because we're right late June, end of June at the earliest to adopt the ordinance and that's at the earliest. >> So we would be advertising and bidding out for a head hunter at the same time.

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So you'll know by end of June. Do you have somebody? If you don't, >> we'll just save us before we ever >> So, Kobe is um are you going to put Danielle on the interview team? >> We can't tell what >> No, I The problem my only concern with

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that is I don't mind. I'll go out and get get someone from another city. That don't bother me. I've done it before. They're more problem that's going to be their subordinate. >> Yeah. >> I sure don't want my subordinate sitting in on mine. That's just me. >> Yeah. So again, >> I mean, if y'all are giving him the

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authority, you really can't I mean, I would say just let him make his decision. >> Let him do it. >> It's his. >> Okay. >> We have people I've had people come from other cities and and >> he'll take care of it. >> He'll do it, right? >> All right then. All right, guys. Anybody else?

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>> Any public comment? >> Y'all just wait. Come budget time, he's going he's going to hit us over the head because we've handed it all to him. >> Yeah. >> What am I going to do? Well, we just gave him a pay raise, too, though. So, that's why be worth it. >> All right. Well, we'll call this special

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meeting a journ. >> Thank you, everybody. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Bye, everybody. We made progress. The job.