meeting to order. This is our city council meeting for December the 8th, 2025. We're going to ask our councilman Scanards if he'd lead us with the invocation. We'll follow the pledge of allegiance. >> Dear Lord, we thank you for this day and all your many blessings. Father, we
thank you for allowing us to come together to work with one another and um carry out the will of the people, Lord, and what is in your will for the city. God, we pray that you will guide our discussions tonight that we will you will lead us, Lord, with mercy and blessings. And we ask all these things
in Jesus name. Amen. >> Amen. >> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and
justice for all. >> All right. Well, we'll move right on to Kobe. You want to go ahead and do the presentation here? >> Thank you, mayor. Uh, council, um, last year we started the program, uh, for employee of the year and employee.
>> Last year we started the program for employee of the year and employee of the quarter. Um, this year we had four great individuals who were awarded employee of the quarter. Um, but the individual that was given this award for employee of the year, I think you all know her, everyone knows her. I think if you've been to anything with the city, you've seen her
face, you've talked to her. Um, and not only is she instrumental in what we do dayto-day here, but she's also instrumental in the fact that we're fixing our library because of the work she's did our last seven years to bring those monies back to the city that otherwise wouldn't have came back without her dedication to that. So, um,
there's not a whole lot more to say. Employee of the year is Miss Lisa Grillinsky. [Applause] Lisa in the house. There she is. Lisa, come on up. We want to get a a picture with you. >> All right.
I see that good looking husband sitting out there. >> Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you. >> You know, one thing I told Kobe, I think I told told her as well that I think she
is probably I've been here for almost well, I've been well over 12 and a half years. And uh she's the most professional employee I have met in this city. And so you done a good job, Jim. God bless you. [Laughter]
All right. Jim used to work for us as well. Yeah. >> Okay. We're going to go to the consent agenda and we'll certainly entertain a motion to approve as written or if you want something pulled off, this would be the time to do that. >> Motion to approve. >> Second.
>> We have a motion and a second. Any other comments, questions from the das. >> All in favor? We're at >> Amy. >> Amy, >> I >> I >> I >> I >> eyes carry. Thank you so much. We'll go to the regular agenda. Is there um Kobe,
is there any changes, additions, or deletions? >> Yes, mayor. At the request of the CRA executive director, I'm going to ask we remove item 6A1, which was titled request from CRA for resolution approving the bond issuance.
>> 681. >> Motion to approve with those changes. >> Okay. Is there any other changes? >> Mayor, can we can I ask for one other one? Can we move 911, if the council woman's in agreement, to consolidate that with 4C5 so that we can go ahead
and do it all at the same time? >> I would like to have two discussions if we could. I mean, I don't mind doing them >> side by side, but I don't want to combine them. >> Um, either way, we can. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, >> can we move, but I would like for it to be >> Yeah, we can set it right below that. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Thank you.
>> All right. And so we're talking about 9 A1 falling under. >> So it' be like 4C6. >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Okay. All right. So we're going to make that six.
All right. That's put me a big flag there. I'll just go right by it. Okay. Um any other changes? >> All right. So >> I'll make my motion to include those changes. >> Thank you. >> Second. All right. So, we have a motion and a second. Uh, all in favor say I.
>> I. >> I. >> I. >> I. >> I. >> Eyes carry. Thank you very much. All right. So, we will go ahead and begin. Mr. Kobe with U 4C1. >> Thank you, Mayor. Uh, council, the um library director of Wong County, Mr.
Greece, reached out to me to inform you that Mr. Beerbomb's term on the library board ends uh at the end of this calendar year. He has turned out um from that role. And so they're looking to see as the city council would like to appoint someone to that role to represent the city that can be either elected or non-elected. Um but they do
need a decision whether we appoint someone or we want them to appoint someone applicants they've received. And so if we could get that tonight we can get that back to her and your first meeting whoever that is uh would be in January. So the board is a it's a three-year term and they do quarterly meetings at 4 o'clock in the afternoon
at our library here in the union. >> Motion to nominate Mr. Harrison, >> I'll second that. >> Would you like to serve? >> In my mind, >> if he's willing to serve. >> I was going to throw my name in there, but Okay. >> You all right with that?
>> Okay. >> All right. We have a motion and a second. Uh, any questions or comments on that? >> Uh, all in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> I. >> I. >> I. >> I carry. Thank you very much, Mr. Glenn.
And uh now we'll go to uh Jacob's bimonthly report. Is Kyle gonna do that or you gonna do it? >> Kyle. Kyle's coming. All right. >> Hey, good evening council and mayor. All right. For the months of September and October, u for the water treatment plant
um for August we did about 46 million gallons, September 51 million, and then October around 50 million for a combination for the three months of 148 million. uh the wastewater plant. Um in August we did about 17.5 million. In September we
did 18.5 million. We're kind of staying on track were all of our capacities. The only higher months we had was May and June um due to the to the rain. But everything else is right around that 500,000 gallons a day. Right around 38%
Yeah. 38% capacity. Um bio saws. What we mainly focused on the last couple of months is getting prepared for the new fan press that y'all purchased. Um, we've got it installed and it's up in operation. Um, so a lot of our activities and workload was trying to
get prepared for the fan press. Um, we got it installed and it's working great. Um, so far we've done just over about 10 tons worth of solage removal. Um, so it's going to be a significant savings for the city. um SCADA along with SCADA. Skada is back on site this week,
finishing up with the uh minor or the rest of the lift stations. They should be done, completed, I'm hoping, this week, if not beginning of next week. Uh they're working on the prison tower today. I'm getting that one all finished up. Um for spills, we uh in September on
the high school lift station, we had a little minor spill, which I'm coordinating with Randall. Um there's been a little bit of confusion. um some of the county um school board districts think they own that lift station and come to find out I believe I'd have to look back at my emails but I was having
a discussion with Randall about it and uh it's still I think considered their responsibility. I don't know if it ever got turned over to the city. We're trying to work out them details now uh because every time we go over there usually one of the county maintenance
guys are over there before we ever get there. So we're trying to work that out. Um, and then >> you have a number or a name on that one? >> Yeah, we do. I'm working with Randall on it, >> right? >> But it's not already numbered on the the master sheet that we already got. >> What's that? >> You know, in the past when we get these
reports, the master sheet, is that on that list? >> So, in this report now, you'll have a list of all list station locations. This one is at Walton High School and it's lift station number 19, right? >> And it's always been number 19. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Okay. Thank you. >> And then the other one was Hunter Bridge and uh it was a little minor spill. we
had some electrical issues and we're the contractor was outside today to replace that electrical panel which was part of the list uh to get upgraded anyway. Um so they're working on that and then Magnolia Lakes as well was on the list to get upgraded and we have a new panel
installed on it today and it should be finished up tomorrow. So, that one should be back online. And then going forward into the new year and the rest of this month, we're going to focus on getting the rest of your lift stations at least. I'm going to try to do two a month is my game plan. Um, you know,
with shipping and and trying to build panels. It may just be a little bit longer process, but I'm hoping to not I hope my plan is to get two stations done a month uh tentatively. >> Good. >> And then so what we completed is lift station three. We ended up putting a new
contactctor trying to get that station back up and going cuz it's currently still got a bypass on it. It unfortunately it failed to do so. So, we're just going to wait for the new village springs to upgrade that station. Um number uh well three, we ended up installing a new chlorine alarm over at
well 3 um and some new chlorine parts. Um the same weld tin. We put new regulators, new uh tubing, all new. Basically everything's new for Weldin since we got it pulled um and inspected a couple of months ago. So we went ahead and re uh redid all the chlorine parts.
So it's all new. So there'll be no issues with the new uh future development going in and then uh working on lift station 19 as we spoke about. Um installed the fan press. Um there was a check valve that went bad at the wastewater plant on the grit system. we
replaced it. Uh and then uh sorry I'm going through my list. So that about you know that and some lift station upgrades that we've got completed the last couple of months. Um
and then going on to the lift as we spoke about we're going to be upgrading some of the lift stations the past couple month in the next couple of months. So okay >> other than that that's about all I that all I got. Do you all have any questions? motion to >> the fan press being installed in this
installed in the savings that you noted on your report there. That that's that's pretty big. So, good job on all that. >> Yeah. Well, thank you. Yeah, I'm hoping, you know, it's going to definitely turn out to be a huge uh asset to the city and a huge cost savings because I know me and Kobe and some of my staff, we
ended up looking at it per one can equals about five or six liquid all trucks and each liquid all trucks 500 bucks. and where we're I think we budgeted for two cans a week and so we're down to roughly about $15 to
$2,000 a week instead of $5 to $6,000 a week. >> Great. >> Yeah. So, it should be a it should be a significant savings along with the the SCADA system as well because before y'all were paying for monitoring on the SCADA system and y'all won't have to do that anymore either. >> Nice. >> Damn. >> If y'all hadn't already been out there
to see this in operation, it's pretty impressive. So, >> I like to try and go out there and see what kind of improvements can be made, and this was a major one. >> It really was, y'all. Thank y'all for doing it. It It's a huge improvement for our operation and for y'all, too. That's
the first step of getting getting on the right path. So, I thoroughly appreciate it, and I know my guys do, too, because that's huge. You know, this is actually the first time I know I've been here almost two years now and our digesttor levels aren't at a critical high level where we got to worry about, oh my gosh,
if we get a bunch of rain, what are we going to do? You know, we're we're we're sitting really good. So, going into the summer months, it's going to be it's going to be exciting. >> Good. >> So, I thoroughly appreciate it, >> Kyle. Thank you so much. >> Well, thank you. Y'all have a good night. You, too. >> Mayor, before we move on, council, go ahead. Come.
>> I just wondered, do we need to make a motion to accept as written? We typically don't, but okay. Just a report. Uh, but a quick question and Kyle R and I don't have a preference one or the other. Does the c would the council like to continue the bimonthly or would we like Kyle to make this on a
monthly and I stick it in my report that I provide to y'all with all the other information. Again, we don't have a preference one or the other. Um, just trying to consolidate. Right, Don. >> So, one of the reasons why we originally, excuse me, requested that they show up
was because this council's or the councils in the past have repeatedly heard, well, you know, that didn't get communicated up to y'all. That's why it's in the condition that it's in. So, I'm in favor of continuing to have him show up, provide the bimonthly report directly to us.
>> Yeah. for the convenience of staff. I think uh they pretty much prove they're on the ball. If they wanted to just come up here once a month, I'd be happy with that. >> This regardless. >> Okay. Uh >> I I like the separate reporting.
>> Yeah, me too. >> Yeah. >> Good enough for me. That's on. >> All right. So, we don't need to do a motion here. >> Okay. All right. Well, thank you very much. And Kobe, we'll go to U C3. Thank you, mayor. Uh C3 is a service agreement
extension with Florida Gas Transmission Company LLC. It's a 10-year extension on the agreement we currently have. Uh Florida Gas Transmission Company is who we buy gas from. Okay. And then we use Florida Gas Utility, which is a separate entity that is basically our liaison. They're kind of our lobbyist on behalf
of um gas companies that buy into that co-op because it is a co-op. They handle our marketing and stuff of that nature and they also handle some uh purchasing to help us buy discounted gas. FDU is separate from Florida Gas Transmission Company and so we're asking for a 10-year extension on the current
agreement and I don't know if Mr. Atinson has anything else to weigh in on that, but that's what we're asking for. >> Sums it up. >> Motion to approve. >> Second. >> I have a motion. Second. Questions, comments from anyone?
>> Yeah, >> go ahead. H >> how long was the previous one? Was it 10 years also? >> Going back. seems like a long time. >> The this agreement supersedes contract number
dated January 1st of 2017. >> So you're talking go back at least then I believe go back prior to that. >> Yeah because there's also a list here from uh dated May 1st 2010. So, um, started in 2010, was like reup in 2017,
and now we're reuppening in 2026. >> Oh, they've been around seven plus years. >> Until 2030, though, is what you're saying. >> Yeah. So, it go 36, >> correct? It'll go from December 31st, 2026 to December 31st, 2036.
>> They own all the gas lines around us. So, I mean, >> I was just going to ask if there were any other potential vendors, Stephen. >> No, this is the one running through the middle of town. This is the main transmission. >> Okay. Thank you. >> All right. So, you need a motion on that. >> I'm asking for approval. >> Okay.
>> We have a motion second. >> Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Okay. All right. I have a motion second. Any other question or comment from anyone? >> All in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> I. I. >> I. >> Eyes carry. Thank you very much. And now we'll go to this resolution.
>> Thank you, mayor. Um, the Wal County local mitigation strategy, uh, we've had a couple meetings over the last few months, myself, Mr. Goldberg, the emergency management director for Wal County, and then Miss Seagler, our merch management leazison for the city. And so, uh, with the changing in the state statute, and I think the county is just
in general updating, um, we're asking to adopt the county's local mitigation strategy. But I'll let Mr. Goldberg give more detail. >> Good evening. Hope everybody's doing well. All right. Um, so every 5 years according to FEMA regulations and Florida statute, we have to revise our
county's local mitigation strategy. Municipalities have one of two choices. Choice number one is to write your own, which very few do because you can adopt the counties. And we take a unified look at everything. So we incorporate all of the municipalities, the special taxing districts when we revise our local
mitigation strategy. That way we've got one document, one project list and we go forward and as a unified approach under the county's umbrella. So adoption of the local mitigation strategy does a couple of different things. Number one, it helps us with FEMA reimbursement uh allows us to go for disaster
reimbursement. In addition, it also allows you and the county and the signitories that sign on to this to go after mitigation funding, whether it's pre- disaster mitigation funding, hazard mitigation grants, which is post- disaster, or anything that comes out once the FEMA review council uh gives
the report, the president decides which way that they're going to go with things. Uh so that's pretty much it. So every five years we do this. So, I make the rounds to all the city councils and the special taxing districts to answer any questions and hope you all will adopt. Any questions?
>> Motion to approve the resolution. >> I have a motion and a second. Any other questions or comments from anyone? >> All in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> I. >> I. I. >> Carrie, thank you very much. Thank you guys. >> Thank you.
>> Appreciate you. >> Oh, one real quick. Um, with the new budget year, we're able to get an additional position, a planning coordinator over mitigation and recovery. Uh, Wany, you want to stand up? You didn't know I was going to do this. Uh, some of you all remember Wier
when he was the logistics manager. He went to um back to Alabama to work in emergency management there. Realized it was much better here. So, he applied for the job and you've been on on for what, two weeks? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, he came back. >> Good. >> So, that's good. So, Wany is going to be
the point of contact and I'll be working very closely with Christie on mitigation or recovery. >> Perfect. >> Thank you for everything you do. >> Thank you. Appreciate the support. >> All right. Now, we'll go to number five, which is an update on the information requested for fire department. Thanks, mayor. Uh, council attached is uh a
report that the fire chief and myself worked on for the five to 10 year plan that the council wanted to see from staff. And so, we've got that here tonight attached for you to provide feedback or whatever you would like to do with that for now. Um, and then in terms of the W County Sheriff's Office, um, they are not just prepared at this
time to provide something yet. So, they're still working on that. Um, so I don't have that brought back to you for any consideration of that. So, ultimately just give you an update on where we stand at in the process and to provide you a first look at the information you requested from staff. So, that that's all for this item.
>> Okay. Any questions, >> comments? >> Yes. So, first I want to acknowledge that anything I'm going to say is not a criticism of the fire chief or staff because they were directed to prepare the document and they executed the request and I appreciate the effort and
the time invested by everybody. However, I want to discuss the plan because I think it's premature. And the reason I believe it's premature is a few months back, we just purchased for about $40,000 a a strategic plan or hired a
vendor to do a five-year strategic plan. And for me, this would be fall within that plan. So, the timing I don't think I think we're jumping ahead of other important planning efforts that we're trying to work out as a council, as a whole, for the entire city. And I know
we have this long range plan. Um, I understand that talking to the police chief that they also have a five to 10year plan that was presented to them uh years ago and we hadn't implemented. So, I just think that this is premature.
I think the fact that we're paying this RFPalis who's we've postponed it a little bit. They're going to come back in February to do this, but we have some workshops in January that we're going to be discussing uh items. I just wanted to share those concerns. You know, one of
those things is Shane Abbott is going to be working to get us that building. And I think all of those are critical factors in our decision making. So, right now, I just think advancing this item before that citywide plan gets together. I think that we should
incorporate our police and fire plans into that raftellis group that we're putting into our strategic for uh to coordinate better and not these independent reports competing for our priorities because I think if we do them all outside of each other then we're
going to miss the boat somewhere not on purpose but that's just going to be one of the outcomes. So out of respect for staff time, taxpayer investment, and broader planning process is already underway, I think the appropriate action is just to hold off on discussing this
until we determine what's going to happen, whether we're either going to have a department or not. So I also think that's a big factor in what we decide, you know, why we would plan on this in advance when, you know, the next item could decide
something totally different. So, I just wanted to share those comments and thoughts with everybody. >> Are you making a motion? >> No. >> Okay. >> Go ahead. Um I'm not sure a lot of the public is aware of the background, you know, of
this discussion, I think, and uh the sheriff's department. Um I I will say the sheriff's department requested to meet with each council council member individually uh which we did but that request was at this council's
uh urging right to get information from them so we could evaluate that information make the best decisions we could possibly make regarding our our fire department. So, my individual meeting, uh, I did meet with them on
Tuesday, uh, the 25th of November, uh, here at city hall. I will say I appreciate and I'm grateful for them taking the time to compile the information they brought to us. Um, and I appreciate the dedication that they
have to providing fire protection to the citizens of this of this county. I think they do a good job. Um, so there's no complaints uh in in that department. whatsoever. Um, I'm unsure of the history and and the origins of the persistent conversation over the years
about turning the city fire protection over to the county. I don't know about that history and at this point I don't care about it. Uh, I don't know the origins of it. I suspect um what I'll say here in a few minutes is probably the reason for that though.
Um, you know what I am sure about is the dedication of our current firefighters and Chief Sheffield to serve and protect this city um and beyond the city when when when
called in to cooperate uh and and help the county respond to emergencies. I have no question about the dedication or Chief Sheffield's ability to lead that department. Um, I believe given adequate funding, the the fire department can
excel. Uh, they can reduce the ISO ratings uh in our city. They can reduce homeowners insurance premiums. That doesn't happen by a whole lot. It doesn't happen overnight. But I think given adequate funding, they can do that. And I have said this before. I
think, you know, the problem that I have with this uh considering this is the fact that at least since I've been on the council, we haven't really tried to figure this out in my view. I know the first few months I didn't have I was clueless, right, as to as to what to do.
And I admit that I think everybody that comes on the council has a lot to learn. Um, but I have been trying to learn about this situation and try to do my part to to resolve it. Um, I think the city has struggled to keep up with the needs of the department
because it has tried to continue funding it with mostly general revenue funds. Um, and we have no special assessment for our fire department. From what the sheriff's department told me, if if they were to do this, um they would they
would assess they would have a special assessment uh of $75 per household or they would at least investigate that. Well, fire department is not free and we're we're seeing that now. We're seeing that this city cannot continue to
grow the way it's growing with our revenue being fixed and limited by some other factors such as the CRA and the amount of money they take and do advalor tax. So since the county has not brought this to
us, the sheriff's department has brought this before the public, I have a motion I want to make. Um, >> well, before you do, let me say this. Did we uh jump from five to six without any kind of a >> setup? Say again.
>> Item six. I think you're talking about item six right now. >> And I don't know that we ever finished with item five. >> I think he's talking about item five this report. >> We're talking about the fire department. >> Okay. >> This planning report.
>> Pardon me. The planning report. >> That five year five 10 year planning report. >> Can I hear y'all? >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yes. Since we're talking about the fiveyear tier five and 10 year plan of the fire department, I thought it might be appropriate to talk about the fire department. >> Okay.
>> Okay. All right. Go right ahead. >> I mean, am I wrong? Seriously? >> No. No. >> Next item is going to be about the fire department as well, but not this 5 to 10 year plan. >> Okay. Okay. Um >> I think that's what he was trying to decipher. What? Did you jump to number six? >> Okay.
>> Speak into the microphone, please. >> I I I didn't intend to jump. Uh, >> okay. >> But >> that's all right. I mean, we're going to cover it anyway. I just want to make sure we're we're done with we get five done, you know. >> Well, I I think, you know, I I agree
with uh Councilwoman Heavlin about, you know, being premature and the fact the sheriff's department had has not quite ready to bring this to the council, to the public. Um, I think we have some time.
um our revenue has to be increased and there there's just no question about it. Um I see a couple ways to do this and the first motion I I would like to make for your consideration and discussion. I'd like to make a motion to direct the
city manager bring back all necessary information to implement a nonadalorum assessment for city fire protection services by the first council meeting in January if that is possible. and that would give us a better idea if
this is something that um we'd consider doing. And and I realize at first we have to we have to decide whether we want to keep the fire department. You know, in my mind we have a century old uh fire department and we kind of have an obligation to try to maintain it
if we can, if we're willing to do the work. Our work doesn't appear to be much different than what the county would do. >> I'll second. >> Okay. Okay. >> Discussion. >> Go right ahead. I just want to make a I don't I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but Kobe and I have already discussed this. He's already gathered
that data. He could tell us what that would equate to and I think it might help us with the next >> uh item uh if you're willing to have him share. >> Well, I think he's talking about both of the process. I I personally, Mr. Atinson may know from the county's perspective.
I don't know the process it takes to uh enact such an assessment. I think is what he's asking for is come back with the steps it would take over the coming months to enact that. >> That's right. >> We can definitely have those brought back. >> Pardon me. >> We can definitely have those brought
back if that's what the council desires. >> So, do we want to do that before I mean to me again I think that's premature only because we don't know what the next item's going to uncover. If we're not gonna if the if the city council decides not to keep the fire division, then this
is a might be premature. Would you be willing to wait till the next item to bring that motion back after we decide after we decide whether we're going to keep it or not keep it? >> Yeah, I can. Yeah.
I uh well sure >> the the five and 10 year plan that's presented to us tonight includes that assessment and just like Councilman Harrison several of us had meetings with Walton County Fire Rescue in which they proposed the same thing. So matter no
matter which fork in the road we choose an assessment's coming whether it's in this five-year plan or whether it's in the the other decision. So an assessment's coming. I think that's what Mr. Henderson is recognizing is and and
to further this discussion about the assessment, my question is is this the amount that's appropriate because when I sat with Kobe and ran the numbers, it's only funding about half of what we
need and that's being generous. So that assessment really needs to be focused in on and actually we as a council need to decide what is that assessment going to be >> Mr. Mayor. Oh >> yeah. >> But the taxing authority at the very
moment is the city council as far as us having the fire division under our uh under our purview. If a decision is made to eliminate the fire division or give it to management of a different
taxing authority, which would be the board, then again, to me, it's a premature thing because it the city should not be the folks that raise the city adorum or or or proposed raising a
special assessment on city fire because >> we don't know. We we don't we haven't made a decision yet on where we're going to head. I think all of these decisions one bounces off the other. You have to have all the facts and all the details at once. I think >> well
I think I think this whether this can be done and is feasible is part of that decision to make whether we're going to keep the fire department or not. That was my my reasoning in in doing this. Um, you know, I' I've made great efforts
to get information from all sides. I've heard from a lot of people on this issue. Uh, met with the sheriff's department. You know, we've discussed this. So, I'm trying to gather as much information as I as I can. And this is part of that conversation. And there's
another part of this conversation that will take place probably during during uh your your session. Uh, and it has to do with making up that gap in in revenue. Um, and we we have to we take a we have to take a hard look at this stuff and make the best decision overall
whether we can or cannot keep the fire department and provide the same level of services while providing same level of services everything else that we provide to citizens in this city. Um, so there's a lot to think about here and I just want to be able to weigh all of it.
>> Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah. >> Is this motion If this motion passes, is that going to increase our taxes? >> No, >> it's not going to increase our adorum. >> It's gathering information. >> That's all we're doing is gathering information.
>> And as I understand it, it was not about abalorum assessment. It would be a nonabalorum per unit basis assessment. >> So, while it would raise the tax bill if it's passed, that's not an avalorum assessment either, though.
So, we're just passing we're just taking a vote on getting more information. >> The direction is for Kobe to bring something back by the first meeting in January on what it would look like to assess a nonabalorum assessment, which as I understand you're basically asking
us to look at how like what we can do that is similar to what the county already does. >> Amy, this is a question directed to Clay. Clay, is this more of what's the technical term? Is this an MSBU? It's a nonadbalorum assessment
>> and that's what it would be called this nonadbalorum fire assessment because the county already has one of those that's roughly 75 bucks per property. >> Correct. That does not apply within the city limits. >> Okay. And then the and doesn't South Walton have the same similar >> South Walton is a special district and
they levy a nonavalorum assessment as well. I do. >> Okay. All right. >> Thank you. >> All right. Mayor Mayor, one more thing. >> They may be an Avalorum district by the way. I do not know that for sure. Go ahead. >> So, I I do want to clarify the motion um
to include options for we we this plan presents kind of asis straight copy from the county which we know will generate half a million dollars a year. But as I mentioned earlier, when you when you run the math on what is proposed in the five
and 10ear plan, it it is short just on what is proposed new. It doesn't cover any of the existing. So what I would like to see is ABC. What is the current existing which we technically already know to me that's a
half a million dollars. What is it to simply cover what is in the plan? And that includes the buildings, the trucks, the increased training costs, anything that that is proposed in the plan. That's option B for the assessment. And
then what is it to fully offset all of the expenses? That's option C. In other words, what's in the plan and and our current $2.1 million that we spend on fire. And that that's what I would like to see brought back as as information.
>> Did you say anything? >> Yeah. Well, I would like to say one for, you know, the discussion of tax increases or or whatever. No, nobody likes that. But I've heard from no one in in the city that wants to turn our
fire department over to the county. So, I've said this in a meeting before that if we want to keep our fire department, people have to be willing to help support that. So, back to the uh ISO ratings and what have you, you know, the sheriff's department says they can they
they are optimistic that they will be reducing their ISO. Well, perhaps. And I'm convinced that we have a council that can help our department accomplish the same thing.
And those reductions in insurance premiums can offset that $75 assessment or whatever that assessment ends up being. So when we look at it strictly as an increase on taxpayers, well, if it lowers your home your homeowners insurance uh by 5 to 10%, which is
basically the the average of uh reducing ISO by a point or whatever you call it, um that people can recoup over years that the the difference in um their insurance premiums and the difference in
that assessment fee. Does that make sense? So this is sort of like that one penny, you know, infrastructure tax that failed the referendum pass. >> People didn't understand. They just saw it as a tax increase. And here we are trying to figure out how to do infrastructure now because it failed.
And so that's why I say what I'm saying here. You have to look at what you get out of it total in the total picture. It might be a $75 assessment or whatever it is, but if it re if the our fire department can excel and and we can
improve the the the parts of the formula that reduces that ISO rating for for our residents, then we are accomplishing something. We're getting them better service for, you know, perhaps less money, but at least maybe a break even, you know.
So, uh, now Amy said a while ago that, you know, she wants something kind of delayed so she can have time to get all the facts. Uh, now I don't know this to be the truth or just somebody had mentioned to
me that that you nor Mr. Cosen met with the the fire and rescue about their verbal proposal. Is that correct? It is correct that I was invited and it was also correct I was invited through the city manager and I explained to the city
manager this has nothing to do with uh me not wanting to meet with the sheriff except what I thought it was was a slap in the face to the board of county commissioners because fire safety is responsibility of the board that is a
board function. So, if the county commissioners chose or or at one point in time in history, they chose to have the sheriff help them with their fire rescue, but it is a board function. So, if the sheriff
wanted at any time, he could say, "Board, that's your responsibility. You take them back." >> So, that is the reason mainly and I said that before U mayor when we first brought this up when they wanted to go meet with the sheriff. I got I got a little bit passionate and said, you
know, this is a board function. So, it is true. >> Um I chose not to meet with the sheriff because I don't think that the fire is the sheriff's function. Policing is the sheriff's function, not fire. So, that is correct. I've never met, but I did read the draft memo that was supplied by
the sheriff on his letterhead to the city manager in reference to uh what they were proposing. >> And I have read that. >> Okay. If you'd like to know why I didn't meet with him, I'll be happy to tell you. >> Go right ahead. >> Okay. Um,
Austin Pew is a straight arrow. He's the best thing that's ever happened to the Walton County Fire Department and he uh was the one I went to. Um, the emergency services director, I believe his name is
um Tracy Voss. He brings a lot of baggage. >> Mr. Mayor, point of order on that. I >> and and I say that for one reason. You can you cross a very thin line of bringing litigation upon some of us.
Just stick to the facts about fire rescue, please. when we if we go over with the county under the current personnel, that would be a grave disservice to our firemen. And the reason being,
and if I need to be stopped, let the let the counselor stop me. But Tracy Voss allegedly has numerous sexual harassment complaints against >> point of order
>> and he sexually harassed one of his >> as a council member. >> So no liability upon myself or any other members upon this council. >> I don't know what anybody else is going to say, but he speaks for everyone else speaks for yourself. >> He sexually harassed one of his firemen's mother.
That fireman quit Walton County Fire Rescue and came to Defunia Springs. He's been here ever since. In his micromanaging and his alleged anger management issues,
we've gotten several of Walton County's firefighters. So, I can tell you all kind of reasons why we should go to Walton County Fire Rescue. We've got Austin Pew is the biggest reason.
They've got better equipment. They've got better training. They've got better education. They've got better apparatuses. They've got better firehouses. I can think of a lot of reasons that would benefit this city,
but in my humble opinion, I think the sheriff needs to make some personnel changes before I can sign on to that. >> Okay. Thank you. >> Okay. Because I'm I mean the public here, you don't know what those proposals were. Any of you? Anybody in the room know what the verbal proposals that have been brought to us are?
>> No. >> Any of you? >> No. >> Why don't you? >> All right. So, but you have heard a lot of things about what we're doing here with people that don't know but one side of the story. >> That's what you know. Uh, let me say this. First of all, there's probably no
one in this room has had the the the the unbelievably good treatment I've had from our local fire department. They have they were at my my house five times in 2021. They were
there for a fire about six or eight months ago at my house. They have uh they've assisted the county in getting my daughter to emergency rooms three different times and and uh so and I've gone and met with
them. I Chief Ralph is is one of the most professional, decent, upright men I know. So, I love our fire department, but I'm a fool if I don't listen to the options. You need to hear the options.
And if you you don't like it after that, fine. But let me tell you just two or three of the options that have been told to me. We don't have this in writing yet, but one of the options was first of all, the city would save a million dollars a year on fire.
Number two, their ISO rating is better than ours, and they have great expectations for it to get even better. When you have a better I ISO ratings, your insurance premiums go down to every homeowner and every business owner in
the city. Uh I said, "What about our, you know, our our team, our firemen?" They said, "We'd love to hire every one of them unless they got something really foul on their record. We would hire every one of them and every one of them would get a
minimum of a 15% raise. We don't know how outside of this we're going to give them a raise next budget time. Uh we're going to do everything we can. I know Glenn is trying to his best think outside of the box. But here's what I think. I don't want
someone to come stand up in this crowd in six weeks from now and say, "Uh, council, did you turn down a million dollars a year?" and uh and and uh and and us not have improved insurance rates in this city
and you guys don't have the ability to come up with a ladder truck and this other group can and they will make the same improvements to the fire department that we want to make. So there are a lot of things that seem to be very positive. I don't have the written proposal before
me. I'm telling you what I've been told in a meeting with this team. And so um and and so the ISO is is insurance, you know, and and for why why do they think
that this fire and rescue uh can do a better job than we can? Our city is phenomenal, but for some reason insurance industry thinks they can do a better job. that's why your insurance rates will go down.
Um there's a lot of positive things in this. We are, you know, we're trying our best to figure out how we're going to make budget and we we're doing everything possible. Uh you would not lose a fire department. It would the the oversight would be a little different.
They they would give what I was told Chief Ross just about whatever he wanted or wherever he wanted to be. Uh, and so I haven't talked to Chief about this yet. I'd love to hear his opinion. Um, but even even if he is he
is to me he's way above average, Chief Ross is but if he's way above average and then let's just say that he left and we got somebody average, would I say would I pay well over a million dollars and give up a discount on insurance because I love Chief Ross that much? No,
I wouldn't. But right now, this is all based on a a verbal proposal. I want to see the written proposal and uh then we can we can make a lot better decisions at that time. This this option is not open
forever. Um and so, you know, if we're going to be in trouble financially come October of 26, uh I we really need to be think this through. And uh um and you know I know
our our our guys say, "Man, just leave us alone. We'd like to stay right where we are." Well, all most everybody in this room is old enough to know you've had to get bumped out of your nest to improve. And so we may be getting bumped, but either way, we don't have the proposal in front of us. And I think
that uh I just want to make sure the public has heard some of the stuff I've heard. and you may not be quite as quick to hop up and say we're idiots, you know, because we're trying to trying to be smart here. And I think that any business person, any leader, whether it's city, county, state, whatever,
doesn't consider their options are foolish. >> So that's that's what we're trying to do here. >> All right, that's my comment. >> Mr. Mayor, >> go ahead. >> Can I just share? >> Yeah. >> I don't Are you saying you've never seen this draft written proposal on the sheriff's letterhead in reference to our fire department?
>> No. Well, there has been one. It's over a month old. So, >> uh, if you or anyone else wants to needs a copy, then I think it should be shared. >> Okay. All right, >> Mr. Mayor. >> Go ahead.
>> I will say too, part part of their their proposal there was for the CRA to pay for the upgrades on the fire department building. So that's still city dollars that's used to upgrade a
fire department for them to occupy. So you know I I I you know that that concerns me a little bit. I mean if if if our CRA is capable of doing that they could do that for the city. Uh which we have talked about. Um,
but I still have more to say about that uh after we've resolved this. Mr. Mayor, >> go ahead. >> So, I've held back for a little bit, but and and it's not holding back to let it loose. It's just trying to listen and and soak in what everybody else is
saying, too, because one of the biggest things here are a lot of the points that the mayor made and then our ability to improve the quality of life for our employees, period. whether that's us or somebody else doing it, how how can we
make that happen? One approach I would like to take is different than anything anybody said tonight and it's not going ahead and going to a vote for turning over management tonight. I I don't I think that's premature because of the fact that yes, we did get a draft proposal
that we all sat in the meetings with the sheriff's office on and heard all the same things that the mayor was talking about tonight. But that was the proposal and it still hasn't come back in in the form of writing to present before this council formally yet. And that's why our
city manager has not got it tonight to present to us. But some of the questions being posed and I I think are coming prematurely because we need to look at some other things. One thing the councilman spoke about tonight was the CRA funding and
that CRA funding and in the general as part of the budget as part of the projects that they're taking care of for us. Can do will they be able to generate enough funding to take care of the streets and alleyways? the fire department. The two things that should be at the top of our list and theirs, I
would hope in order to combat the BL downtown, provide the infrastructure that our businesses need and accomplish our goals. But a bigger problem was a lot of the things that me and Kobe hashed out on Friday is budget. We need to start speaking about budget for next
year, but it needs to come earlier than June and July. It needs to start almost at the turn of the year. And this fire department decision needs to be made as a part of that decision because last year's budget was tight. Next year budget's going to be even tighter. Where
are we going to generate the revenues? Public safety cost us $6 million a year out of our general fund. It does. And we generate 2.8 in Avalorum. Now, I understand the things about the the homestead exemption, property tax cuts
and all that that are coming and I'm game for that, but how much of the 2.8 is homestead properties at this point? What are the impacts going to be to us? Has the state proposed a plan to fund public safety for us? Because they're saying they don't want us to touch one penny out of law enforcement.
They haven't said fire yet. And I've seen articles online where a lot of different cities are bringing up the same uh issues because they're wondering if you're saying I can't touch this area now. This one's going to have to be touched. We've had a lot of influence in this decision and the way that people
feel about this topic. How much of it's been from our city taxpayers that pay city taxes? A lot of it hasn't been. So my proposal, what I would like to see done if if you would be willing, is to hold two workshops at the turn of the
year. One dealing with solely fire based off of the things that you've asked for here tonight and a lot more fire as a whole. How are we going to pay for the the structure to be repaired? Um how are we going to pay for vehicles moving forward? How are we going to pay
for equipment? How are we going to pay for personnel salary increases across the board? not just fire. How are we going to give anybody a raise and how are we going to retain personnel? The second one that I would like to see is to go ahead and start talking about budget because you really need to have a
discussion and I hammered Kobe on this on Friday. Are you telling the rest of my council members the same thing that I'm hearing from you? Because we need to know how ugly this looks next year and it looks ugly. Are we broke? No. Do we need to look at how we're going to fund everything? Yes, because it's getting
really tight. their longevity, their longevity is a concern for us as well. And making sure that their quality of life is not only good for them, but their families as well. A lot of people think that this is about turning this over to sheriff's office. No, this is trying to keep
people's quality of life better. Period. whether it's with them or with us, a lot of the same issues. If you'll go back and look at the the reason why the county turned over fire protection services to the sheriff and they turned over they handed off the contractual
obligations of that to the sheriff as well. But if you look at it, they faced a lot of the same issues that we're discussing here today. We're discussing the facilities are degraded and starting to fall apart, the need for new apparatus, the need to give employees
payraises. There was a high uh high emphasis put on training records and ensuring that they were getting the proper training and equipment. And those are a lot of the same things that we've discussed throughout all of this. And it's the reason why the county at that
time handed over control to the sheriff. It was not a 50-0 unanimous vote on that panel either. It was three to two and you wouldn't believe but the two that were the strongest supporters I would think out of that board at that time were the two that voted no.
So but since then just >> voted no on >> they voted no not to hand over control to the sheriff. It was commissioner commander and it was commissioner Chapman who was the previous under sheriff or the sheriff's office. But the the other three members realized which direction they were headed. They
were trying to figure out unlike them. We're trying to figure out how to fund them. And I agree with every comment you made about Chief Pew and the professionalism at the sheriff's office. I disagree with with the concerns that you have about Chief Foss, but it's because of
different reasons. That was a civil battery uh allegation that went through. It wasn't sexual harassment. It wasn't criminal. It was civil. So, but beyond that, I agree with everything else you said. So I my ask if you'll agree with
me though is that we do two workshops. One concerning just fire, how we're going to fund it, what all they need, how we can make all that happen moving forward, and the second one budget so that we can continue to fund the rest of the city, not have to reduce our workforce there as well and to make
their quality of life better. And then possibly even a non-binding referendum where you get the answers that you want and I get the answers that I want. I want to hear from the city taxpayers, the ones who pay Avalorum taxes on their trim notice to the city of Definiac
Springs and see how they feel about handing over management control of fire services inside the city to the Walton County Sheriff's Office and Fire Rescue. And that would give our voters their voice. >> I just I think this is good discussion and mayor, I appreciate you bringing up
some of the the actual information and facts that have been been put out there. I want to thank Kobe and Chief Sheffield for uh working on this five and 10 year plan. I think this is a good start. I think that this is the way that we figure out are we going to fund the fire department? Are we going to put our best
foot forward and help them put their best foot forward? Are we going to make that decision? Jesse, if you will pull up those charts and go to the second from the bottom chart. So this chart go right there. This chart is the general fund public funding of
safety. This was these are numbers provide pro provided directly to me by the city manager. This goes back to 2019. 2019 we were funding them at $3 million. In 2025 we are funding them right at $6
million. So over the last six years, we have doubled both the fire department budget and the and the police department budget both have doubled in six years. I think that getting this kind of information, I saw this comment on
Facebook this weekend. People want facts, people want charts, people want information. And I think it's good that we have this discussion and allow all of this information to get out there, not one side. But this is is representative
of every single council since 2019 supporting public safety, supporting our firefighters, supporting our policemen. I think it's important to look at this kind of stuff. Um I' I've got seven or eight other slides in there. I'm not
going to bore everybody with it. I'm not going to pull up McNight and go through there and and and talk about all the other slides. But Councilman Skars, you're correct. It's only going to get tighter and tighter from here and we have some we have some actual critical decisions to make. I think that there's
a there is a plan to save the fire the fire department and fund it. But I also agree with Councilman Scurs that this needs to be something that the citizens decide. This has to be something that the citizens decide because this is not something that we we need to go into
lightly. I do want to note on this uh chart you see right here, previous councils have already raised the abalorum tax twice. I believe it was in 2020 and 2021 if I remember correctly. It was two years back to back. We raised
it a half mil. So a total of 1 mil. We went from three and a half to to now we're at four and a half if I remember correctly. >> Four and a half to five and a half. >> Four and a half to five and sorry. >> Four and a half to five and a half. So,
it's not like we haven't tried and the the councils, including this council, continue to support our fire department and our police department, but there there's there's a tremendous amount of demands on we're not just the
city of Defunia Springs Fire Department. There are many many other functions to City of Defiac Springs. >> Yeah. So, and and we have taken all those things into consideration, but we haven't done anything about them. I
didn't want to say this, you know, but you know, you mentioned, you know, we've seen one side of it. Uh the thing is, we we've seen this coming. You know, I haven't been involved that long, but from from from week one when I first
toured that fire station, I saw right away that we had a problem. And we just had tough conversations for this next year's budget about raises. We weren't able to give rates. We're giving bonuses. I get all that.
And but this is somebody saw this coming. Nobody's tried to resolve it in a serious way. And that's not a criticism. Don't want anybody take that personally. I'm just saying even since I've been on here, we haven't we haven't rolled our
sleeves up and got after how do we keep our fire department, how do we give raises, how do we do this? So, this has been kind of a non-starter conversation as far as the fire department goes. Uh, at least since I've
been on the council since March of of 24. So, and again, I'm not being critical. I just I have a hard time giving something up that I feel like I haven't done my best to save uh and and and to figure it out. Um there's ways to
offset that revenue. You know, we've had tough conversations about the CRA. I get it. And if we're going to be objective, we're going to look at everything that has to be looked at. My priority is our personnel, whether they're working on our water and
sewer lines or working in this city hall doing two and three and four jobs a piece, which some of these folks are doing, and we love them all and and they're working hard, but I want to be able to give them raises. It is our responsibility to figure out how to do
that. And the CRA, I get it. It's it's important to us if it works. It's been here since 2018. And if we had a list of compiled things where property values have increased and our and our ad balorum has increased as
a result, that'd be proof in the pudding that it's worth it. But I have not seen that. And now we're talking about spending a few million dollars on an amphitheater that can be put on the back burner. We're talking about borrowing money to
do that. I want to keep our fire department. I want to give our employees raises. So, and and listen, I've have been a supporter of the CRA all along. The last vote we took on whether reducing the percentage, I voted to keep
the percentage at 95%. And then we started this conversation again about the fire department. So, if it's a choice of giving our employees raises and a good standard of living and keeping our fire department and the CRA and I'm not I'm not advocating
eliminating CRA art together, but I do want to take a hard look at um what it would look like if the map is last year. We talked about this. We redu we talked about reducing the map and the word was oh that's too complicated. It's too time
consuming. Well, here we are personally wishing we had done that myself. And so had had we had we done that instead of talk all the conversation about reducing the percentage which might not be the most feasible route to go but if we if
we reduce the CRA boundaries district to something where they can focus on what the true mission of CRA is and that is reducing blight and increasing property values. um then the city doesn't lose all the new adalorum taxes in the areas of our
city where growth is occurring and we know it's going to occur. It's already on the books. It's coming. And so why do we want to give that money up at this point when we're having this conversation about fire department no raises? That's a mystery to me. So I I'm willing to do the work and I I hope we
all are. Amy, >> thank you uh Glenn for sharing those because I have duplicates similar and I'm not going to go into the detail like you just did because they're very similar to what you just shared, but I want to answer a couple things because over the past week I've got
Councilman Beerbomb, are those budget numbers only? Okay, I did the same exercise but I did it in actuals. Okay. So, >> the uh >> your budgets >> that the actual to budgets is where I'm coming from. What did we actually spend?
Even though for fire, I think uh Josh, I think you might have said 2.2 million. I'm sitting up here shaking my head, but then I'm thinking, okay, that's budget. But what we actually spent was 1.7. So, there's a little bit of difference. So, I think we got to look at both numbers. I think what we're gathering all this
data, I think these are good. uh for the CRA what we've actually transferred over to the CRA uh and this started and my data I'm telling you from 2023 what the audited numbers reflect in 23 it was
300,000 in 24 it was 600,000 and I'm I've rounded down okay in uh 25 it was 900,000 and 26 it's my understanding we're giving them 1.2 2 million of the uh excess. So those are just a couple of
uh items I wanted to point out because I do think like you the CRA is going to be a big dis uh uh uh item that we got to discuss before we can finalize what the decision is going to be. Um, I know that we took it off of the uh table tonight,
but those loan documents that that we're going to uh consider the next time this comes before us says you cannot change that map. So, please make sure that we all understand what those loan documents say because we can't reduce the funding and we cannot uh change those the the
map like we had been discussing. But I think it's going to be critical if we're going to save if we're going to figure out how to move forward as a whole. And I'm not talking just the fire. I'm talking the city as an entire whole because I agree we've got to figure out how are we going to maintain employee
raises? How are we going to maintain paying for the benefits and other increases on a citywide uh basis? The other thing I wanted to point out is um Mr. Conurs, you had asked about two work two workshops and I agree. We need to
discuss the entire budget, not just the fire, not not just the fire because the CRA is going to impact what ability this the city has as a whole. And we need to know what the hole is in order to know how much we're going to allocate to fire
should we keep it. Um, and that's going to impact the overall decision. I dis I do disagree. Someone said that uh the management to a third uh to the third party and in our case we're talking about giving it over to the sheriff. But
to me, I think Chief Sheffield and his staff do an excellent job. I think like Mr. Harrison just shared, we've got to figure out as a whole how we're going to move this city forward with all of necessities. The amphitheater is not a
necessity. And I agree, you know, we've got to put that on the back burner. Um, you know, I looked at all the actuals. The actual revenue the amphitheater brings in on average is about $1,000 a year. Why would we want to invest so much money when you look at the actuals
there? That's just not a good return on investment. So, we do have to consider all of these pieces and parts. There's many moving pieces that's going to impact our decision. So, I I don't think we should just if we're going to do a workshop, I agree. We've got to do the
the budget as a whole and we need to start it at the first of the year. This cannot wait till March or April, but it also cannot just focus on fire even though that's going to be one of the, you know, one of the discussions. But, you know, there's other divisions in our
operations that cost more than the fire department. And I'm not sure if everybody recognizes that or not, but uh there might be some other opportunities there where we need to look at could we contract out something else uh like we kind of do with the Jacobs
group that that would save us money. But I agree with Mr. Harrison. We I don't think that we've done enough uh to determine all the moving pieces and parts and I want to save the fire department as well. I do not want to see this go over to a different management.
I mean, our staff does Chief Sheffield does wonderful with his team and I I just I think it's a disservice uh to the community if we just focus on this one piece and give it away and not look at the entire city as a
whole. When we revisit our budget, this was my first budget season I just went through. And from a layman's point of view, we put our wants way before our needs.
Okay. Our wants were alleyway, amphitheater, and a um art studio and a lot of other amenities.
So, those are great and I'm not playing them down. I support the alleyway, but you pay your you get your needs met first. And then whatever you've got left, then
you start getting your wants. And our top number one priority needs should be public safety, our fire department. That should be our first and foremost. And I think that's where we may have made a mistake.
And if we're looking for ways to save money, counselor, is there any way to revisit the 95% ad balorum? You all voted on this several times over. I think you need to bring it up in next budget year at this point. I don't
see a way to bring that back. >> Okay. >> Um the next thing is um I think it was you Amy just mentioned the $5 million bond that's coming up next meeting in January. Um, our city is already
just under $13 million in debt in debt. And we're wanting to get a $5 million bond. And I'm not a financial expert,
but you cannot borrow your way out of debt. We've got to stop the borrowing and Our debt keeps going up and up and up and up. I'm just going to get in front of this.
I think this $5 million bond that we're going to consider signing off on is a bad idea because if you've been paying attention to the news, Governor DeSantis is ramping up eliminating uh homeowner property taxes
and we have to be prepared for that. >> And the last thing I'm going to say right now is because I'm trying to cut the amount of phone calls I've got down. I'm sure y'all's phone have been blowing up. Um, what's it where do you stand on the fire
department? Um, people from that are pro county, what's it going to take you to vote for the county? Well, I've got I'm going to tell you right now in hopes that I'm going to cut down on
some phone calls. There's two phases. I'm going to call it the dream team. And I know this is this is a reach, but the dream team would consist of Austin Pew
as the director of emergency services, Ross Sheffield, the fire chief for Walton County, and last but not least, the thing that would solidify the deal
would if that's what Ross Sheffield would be willing to do. And if he's not willing to do that, I'm standing with Ross Sheffield. I see the advantages of this of the county taking this over, but at the end
of the day, I'm standing by our fire chief. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. All right. We still got that that motion on this. Still >> have a motion and second on the floor. >> All right. Let me restate the motion real quick. >> The motion is to bring back by the first
meeting of January all the necessary information uh for the council to see what it would take to assess to do a non-ablent assessment for fire service. >> Okay. And we have a motion second >> and that was not modified because we had a lot of discussion. >> No, I know Councilman Beerbomb asked for a modification from additional information but I didn't see I didn't
hear a uh modifications a motion. >> That's because I didn't quite grasp it all. So if you would you like to take another run at that? >> Yeah. So my my modification because I was the second was that we bring back not just the information
on the process but we bring back ABC in terms of $75 assessment which is what is proposed both in the Walton County Fire Rescue that has been provided to us as well as in Ross' plan. Ross' plan includes that exact same assessment.
What does that look like in terms of funding? Then option B would be to fully cover everything that's in the five and 10ear plan as presented. That's the employees that are that are in that plan, the fire
trucks, the stations, and additional training and and whatever else is needed there. And that's option B. Then option C is what it would look like if we were to hand over the management control to Walt
County Fire Rescue. And so we're saving a million dollars and we're capping it at at a million dollars. So option C is basically full boat got to cover it all minus minus a million dollars. Basically is that's if we handed over to W County
for our rescue, we' still be paying roughly a million dollars. So, what does it look like for option C to cover the existing $2.1 million plus whatever is in the new the new plan, the 5 to 10 year plan. That's option C.
So, to bring back those three options. >> Okay, back up to the B for just a second. Just say say the gist of the V again because what was in the five and 10 year plan as proposed. Okay.
>> Because because the current >> All right. Before I lose my thought again, so on that I'm not I'm not looking for an assessment that would 100% pay for our fire protection. >> That's option C. That's what I'm talking about for C. >> Yeah. I mean, because I I think we have
we have other options to look at if if we reduce some of those what Councilman Cosman called wants. Now, I will say on on the amphitheater, I was on the tree board when that conversation started. I love live music. Uh I support live
music. Um make part of my living at live music uh with our kettle corn. Uh but that's just something that do we have to do it right now versus employees, the risk of employees or or fire department. So, I'm not saying I'm
not a supporter of the amphitheater. I'm not saying uh let's don't do it at all. It's dumb idea. But even even that requires some more information. It requires information, engineering information, which I asked for in a one-on-one meeting with architects that
were designing that thing. I have a concern about noise, residence, all those types of things, you know, have to be addressed. So, I'm not in any way looking for uh an assessment to cover 100% of our fire costs. Part of that might come from CRA funds that we shift
back in our our direction. Okay. So C >> C C is basically just full boat cover everything 2.1 plus from mining CB's math on Friday when we met discussed this there's another $7 million plus
plus the actual employees and that doesn't even include the raises >> that's in that five year five senior plan >> and and and that would take into account revenue that we already have that funds employees and raises out of utilities
and some of those transfers or >> Well, no, because we we've been talking about reducing those transfers. >> Well, but but as far as being able to give raises, it doesn't all come from fire assessment for correct citywide employees. >> Absolutely. But we would have to create
that room in the budget to do that. >> Budget workshop. It's a whole >> Well, and and this goes this goes back to 2020 when I proposed and and had adopted a resolution for two things that in March of every year we would be
begin the budget discussions that was in the resolution. And then the second part of the resolution was that the councils starting in 2021 would be presented with a flat budget. flat budget, no increase in spending outside of the required
FICA, Medicare, Medicaid, retire, FRS, retirement. We get presented that and then at that point you can work backwards with the what you know to be extra money and fund the different things. That's to my knowledge never truly been
uh presented. So I'm the one that saw this coming. If anything, I'm the one that saw this coming back in 2020 and got the council at the time to agree to the resolution, but unfortunately, it hasn't actually acted out in practice.
>> So, a flat budget, you're saying, would be without any increases in in spending. >> That be presented to us so that we could then work back from there almost like allocart style and say, "Okay, well, we have, you know, half a million dollars
in excess." that's that that we're seeing increase, >> right? >> So, okay, we can do raises, we can do this project over here, we can do that project over there because when you work backwards from that, you're then not spending yourself into a hole every single year. >> Well, there's there's one segment in my
view of revenue that's going to continue to increase as long as our city experiences growth, which is which is going to, right? We know it's going to unless economy just completely collapses. And part of that revenue, even though I supported it, part of that
revenue is is to the CRA. And if we're going to sustain ourselves and continue to provide even the same level of services, which we can't we which we would all agree probably need to be improved. We need more personnel. We're short-handed. We got that. So, we got to
increase revenue. The only sure source of revenue that's going to increase is from from property tax growth. and uh we're giving it away. So, I just think we got to take a hard hard look at that and again, not not again do away with
the CRA, but get it get it functional uh with with areas that could truly improve this city over overall. Um but okay, so yeah, I'm good with objective, you know, information. So, I'm okay with
bringing all of that back. So, um uh if I need to amend a motion to include those things you just asked for. Um >> and I'll amend my second. >> I'll make that motion. Okay. >> All right. Okay. Can you do yours in three minutes?
>> Probably not, but I I'll stick >> try your best. Okay. >> We're going We're going to try. Okay. Um, I want to say that I don't think any of y'all ran to uh destroy or try to hurt the city, but in trying to give away our public facilities, it is a
broken promise in elections of doing the best for the city. So, I think it's important and I like the idea of putting it to the people vote because it takes it out of your hands and it lets the people make the decision. So, I'm going to say I liked that that um option
tonight. I also don't think we need to cover all the expenses because the increase by the chart was doubled. I do think some of this falls on the responsibility of the city. So, I don't mind a a uh fire assessment, but it shouldn't be
all on us. Some of it should come back to the city. Um I packed I passed out a packet to y'all and I'm willing to keep on this journey with y'all. Um I don't believe coming to y'all with a problem without some sort of solution. So um in
your packet, the first is Milton's budget. If you'll see, they have close to $6.3 million in public safety. That's divide divided between fire and sa uh police and it's pretty close. It's on the first page. It's under public
safety. Um if you I've also uh gotten paperwork from Bonaf. We're not going to talk about Bonaf. Um, but I've also done G Breeze. Gulf Breeze has four uh square miles that they cover plus seashore and
their fire budget is $795,000. Don't get excited. Only about $200,000 of that is in employees. They have a lot of volunteers. But what I did find interesting in talking to the Gulf Breeze Fire Department is they spend $500,000
in maintenance to their building, their fire engines, and anything else. I haven't in the times that I've attended any city council meeting ever seen where y'all have budgeted that kind of money for maintenance. And that's why our city is having so many issues is
because we aren't maintaining what we have. So, um, the last, and it's a section, I think it's three or four pages, is actually the signed agreement with the interlocal agreement between Mike Atkins and the Walton County BCC. I
have all of the the two meetings also, if anybody would like a copy of those. I have the uh meetings in which they discussed all this. So, if anybody would like a copy of those, you don't have to do You would. You would. Okay. I'll I'll send them to the clerk and have her give
them to y'all. Um, nowhere in here does it say the sheriff can can sign an interlocal agreement with any other departments. Now, I know there's statutes and I've read over those, but my concern is this at minimum needs to go back to the BCC and I've said this
from day one to see whether they consider this is something they need to vote on. We haven't asked them. Well, I did. And the ones I asked told me, except for one, that no, they felt that this was an impact to the budget, the overall county budget, and that they
should have a decision in this. We are still not talking about that. But in this interlocal agreement, nowhere does it say he has that authority. So, um I I'm I'm just a little concerned. We've
done 20 years of neglect to this fire department. That's not everybody up here's fault. I think the mayor's the longest running one up there. And um the reality is now we are at the end of the road and at the end of the road we've got to make decisions and we may have to
cut other budgets. Now I was here paying my water bill the other day and I noticed that people were just sitting on the counters. Um if we're going to cut budgets and talk about employees, I don't think the people running into fires is where we need to cut budgets. I think that
I got it. Um I don't think that's where we need to cut it. I'd like to start with a person who was sitting on the uh cabinet personally. >> Well, I'll say I I'll disagree, mayor. Um the fact that employees knew this was coming, called me and told me that this
is coming and be prepared and explained to me what they were doing and they were communicating with their supervisor on what they're doing down there. So, I'm going to disagree with that. Uh staff here has works works very hard. If you see someone's taking five minutes to a break, probably want to thank them. Do it very much. >> So >> maybe they should use a chair and not on
the counter. >> Um, so um I like the direction >> my clock would they never start my clock. Are you timing going? >> Oh, okay. >> Um, >> and I started real late.
>> Oh, did you? Oh, goodness. Okay. Well, here's what I'm going to say in closing. I agree with taking it to the the citizens. I also want to say that I think one of the reasons the fire department has gone to the state it is is that your fire chief can be fired by one person. This isn't about Kobe. This
is about every city manager we've had and the neglect started there. And if we could fix that when we take it to the people's vote and put our fire chief equal to like I'm not I'm not saying elected, but I'm saying that he works budgetarily with him, but he hires and fires and y'all have to fire him instead
of and I know that's in the charter and we got to change it in the charter, but I think that's another thing we need to consider. Thank you. >> Thank you, >> Mr. Mayor. >> Come on up. Yeah, >> I would like to know one thing that she said >> about our about our taxpayers. It would have impacts to the county, but our city
voters pay county avalorum as well as >> You can't hear me. >> Oh, well, you heard me then. Um, our city voters pay both county and city avalorum taxes. So, the impacts to the county budget already there. We're paying the same taxes as well.
>> Go ahead. >> Not the assessment fee, but the rest of it. >> I agree with pretty much everything Miss Kit just said. I too have been talking with county commissioners off and on for months and same thing. They don't understand how this is even a discussion without bringing it before them. And a
few of them have even said to me that they would be willing to talk about helping you financially, which is why I mentioned that to you months ago. And as far as I know, no one has ever has approached them yet. Maybe you have and and maybe started some talks about that. But but beyond that, I just want to say
um Mayor Campbell, I'm not not going to ask you. I'm going to if your quality of life had been altered or your life lost on any of these calls you needed by waiting for 15 minutes on help to arrive, then you don't want to do this.
That's not the fault of the boots on the ground. They are amazing. I'm a nurse. that this is my my lane here. Simple oxygen administered during a heart attack can completely change the outcome if you get it quick.
Not in 15 minutes, not in 12 minutes, in the three or four minutes that Chief Sheffield and his guys are getting to you. I I just want to point that out. I would never think you're an idiot for looking at other avenues. I apologize if I've made people feel that way, but but this is too important to overlook the
these graphs are great, but I don't see the graphs that I've been up here telling you guys about for months on end about the response times along with the city's money. Your your job is to look out for the health, safety, and welfare of your citizens. And it seems that some are, not all, by any means, not all. Some are forgetting
that. That's that's actually more important than the money. And I don't mean you, Josh. I mean one. Um, yes, I pointed um I completely agree with Councilman Scurs that Councilman Cosen shouldn't have been talking about uh
county stuff there, but it's all true. Whether it's civil or criminal, it's sickening and the sheriff promoted him along with it. You don't want that running your departments. Um, and lastly, I do want to say I appreciate everything Councilman Harrison had to say, but not only does
South Walton pay, I just called a fire tax cuz I can't keep it all. Liberty pays it. I'm in the Liberty District. I'm hoping and praying that they come at us for another $50 >> this year. We're paying 75 now. I want to give them 125. Um, and if your
citizens don't want to do that, if they buck that, then then maybe, you know, maybe they can't have the fire department. So, I I think that that's really something I just want to make clear to everyone here. Everybody pays that. Argal pays it. The county, South
Walton, and Liberty. And lastly, um, on on Councilman Cosen's last words, I I believe that the only thing you actually need to do is just keep the word that you've promised from day one. You don't have to sit up here and talk about your dream teams. Austin Pew is the bee's
knees. He's also already handed in his retirement papers. He's gone next November. We We don't need dream teams. We need you to keep your word. We don't need Chief Sheffield put in that position to have this on his shoulders. then he he may potentially have to speak
against his boss, his employer. That's not fair. All you got to do is keep your word that you've promised from day one. We don't need dream teams. We don't need to put it on the chief's shoulders. It's on your shoulders. Thank you. >> Yeah. And I will say that uh in regards to 15 minutes, our fire department is
within about two miles of every resident in this city. They can get there quick. That's not going to change. There may be >> it could. >> Oh, it will. >> No, it won't. >> No, you had your chance. You had your chance. >> Is it my turn? >> It's mine right now. >> Okay. >> Okay. And so,
>> well, my time's going >> uh that's not going to change. And so, you know, for to come up with these crazy things like all of a sudden it's going to go from two or three minutes to 15 minutes is I think kind of ridiculous. I think our guys are probably some of the best there is. They may not be as fast as our guys, but
they're not gonna be 15 minutes. Go ahead. >> Okay. I think that time could change just because they may have to be in a different area where they don't have to do that now. So, it could impact that. >> But we need to every citizen to
understand they are going to pay a fire assessment whether the city of Defunia Springs keeps this fire department or the county. Every other fire district charges one and you're going to have to do the same. That's we're going to have an increase. They're going to have to pay. There's no other way. someone has
to pay for that fire protection. And as far as like Mr. Cosen said where you got to take care of your needs before your wants, I've said this personally to some of y'all, my husband is a builder. You have to make sure your roof ain't leaking before you paint your walls.
>> You got to take care of public safety first and foremost. And I did read the charter because I keep hearing all this, so I've read it every bit. I did get some legal consultation on it. To take our fire department and put it under Walton County Fire Rescue is to
deactivate a department of the city. It is absolutely a deactivation. There's no other way. How can you? They won't be city of Defun Springs Fire Department anymore. They won't be city of Defianc Springs employees anymore. We no longer
will have a fire department that belongs to the city of Defunia. that whole department is gone. Now, how you pay your taxes to them or whatsoever, I don't understand, but that they won't be the city department anymore. Um, there is nobody that I have talked to yet that
is excited. Some say we may have to go to the county, but I have not talked to one single person that felt like going to the county would be >> I won't eat up your time. This is my time right here. So, how many of those heard what I just said about 30 minutes ago? A lot of them I re
>> Oh, they they knew all the options that uh the fire rescue has given us. >> Excuse me. You don't know all the options. You just said that. >> No, but I told you a few of them. One of them was a million dollars a year. >> Yes. >> That we would not have to spend. >> If if Mike Atkinson, and I'm not
throwing off on Mike because I think he's done a good job on everything that he's done. Is why is he the only person in Walton County that can do a budget? Walton County Commissioners couldn't do a budget and support fire rescue. The city of Defunia is saying they can't do
a budget and support the city of Defunia Fire Department. We need to let Mike run the whole show. >> Yeah. >> I mean, there seems to be a problem here. >> Well, it he's doing a pretty good job. Um, >> but he doesn't need it all. And the next sheriff that comes in may not want it
all. I've talked to someone who said they might want to be the sheriff. >> Yeah. or look to run and would not want it all. >> So, that's something you have to consider >> and you're still responsible for this city. >> Yeah.
>> Well, you know, Freeport had done bad. Uh Freeport uh they gave up their fire department and >> and there and they don't have any police and y'all want to y'all would do away with all of it if we let you. >> No, that's not that's not true. You got
it all figured out, but go ahead. I wish I had it figured out. My name is Melinda Henderson. I live in the city. I appreciate what you are doing to find out the particulars for every possibility, but I'd like to think on a little bit different level.
Uh what administrator that was worth his salt would want to take on the the debt and the needs that you are take talking about. I don't know. We no longer have waste
management. We contracted that out. We gave away building inspection. It's sort of like chewing at the edges of our city as we give away departments. The other part of that is that we need
to increase revenues if we want to maintain our city because if we don't, it's going to continue to chew like a Pac-Man and we won't have a city anymore. >> Yes. >> Thank you.
>> Everybody good? >> Yeah. >> All right. We're going to go to a vote real quick. >> Real quick. I just I am taxp paying citizen of the city and I just know that there's a lot of emotion involved in this. You know, everybody's talked about
you're focusing on people, but as a citizen, I'm concerned about whether or not we're going to have the same ability to have the safety. You know, are they going to be have this response times? And if response times are not going to change, then so be it. Okay. Uh I would
like to know whether or not I'll cause a shutdown of current or prevention of building of new fire stations. I'd like to know if it's going to change any of the training requirements. Are there going to be more or less requirements for these these folks out there? And of course, the big question is what is the cost and or savings? And you mentioned
the million dollars. So, I feel like while you all are talking about and wanting to vote tonight, there's a lot of information and you talked about doing the meetings out in the public. I think having those meetings before making this decision would be more beneficial. >> It's it Mr. Mayor, go ahead. Now, the
the motion denied is still not in regard to do we turn that service over or not. At this point, that's just to bring the assessment back. What would the assessment look like? I'm still asking my fellow council members, I would like to hold the two workshops, one for fire
and one for the budget. And then I would I really would like to put this out to referendum and see what our citizens feel about. we could have it with the the proposal, the actual proposal in front of everybody to read and understand so that we know what's going on because >> that's going to be the plan and you got
to know what the plan is before you >> implement. >> And that's why I asked for the information and why we're not deciding on that hopefully not because we're still waiting for it to come back to to us. But I do like the some of the discussions I heard. It's a lot of pragmatic decision- making and I
understand like I said, you have a a rub with somebody there. But we have to think of the citizens, okay? And what's this going to do for our city and our citizens, not just because we don't like somebody. >> Thank you very much. Go ahead.
>> I'd like to respond to that. >> All right. You step out there, Dan. Go ahead. >> Oh, yeah. Did she give her name? Um, >> ma'am, could you tell us your name, please? >> Valerie Angel. >> Thank you. You got it, >> thank you, >> Miss Angel.
>> You can Google do your research on the name Stacy Boss. >> This isn't This isn't hearsay. >> We're done. We're done. We're going to go to a vote. >> Okay. >> I'm sorry. Okay. >> Thank you. >> Okay.
>> All right. All in favor say I. >> This is just to gather the information which I believe that we need. So I'm going to say yes, but I just I want to make it clear. I'm not voting one way or
the other uh only for information because I didn't agree with options B and C. >> I I carry. Thank you very much. All right. Do we got another segment of
this? >> So, mayor. >> Yes, but I need a >> So, also is gathering part of information and I hope this doesn't turn into a long conversation, but I I think we need to look at uh the CRA
boundaries. Um I would like to pro propose another motion on that so we have that information come back. I know we have talked about we have voted we this is a t this is going to take some time you know we we understand that so I'm not saying immediately we're going
to reduce percentage or anything like that but I think when we start talking in in March or February if you guys want or whatever about budget we have to have this information already in front of us uh to look at to consider in in those
budget workshops. So is okay. Everybody okay with me making a motion on this? I I I'd like to make a motion to direct city manager bring back all necessary information to allow us to evaluate the revenue generating benefits
revenue generating benefits of reducing the CRA area boundaries. We can discuss the rate percentage or a hybrid of of of those two. Um, I'm not close-minded about any of those things.
One, two, three options or any of them at all. I just think it's something we have to look at as part of this consideration. >> Second >> discussion. >> And I don't have a problem at all with the motion. Clay,
it was not on the agenda as stated. >> Honestly, we don't need a motion for this. his generalized direction for him to bring it back when we're having these discussions. The only reason I think his first one had to be a motion was it was directing it to have it back by a specific time for the council to
consider it and it's actually addressing a non-avalorum assessment. >> What's the cleanest way to get this done? >> Just general direction to the city manager. Mr. Council, did you understand the direction? >> I would first like to amend my motion uh by January 1st. It's written right there. I just didn't say it because on
the very bottom line >> it's not really related to an agenda item I guess is the mayor's point. I do agree with him. Um but if what you want to give is direction to see manager to bring it back and Mr. T says he understands what to bring back. It doesn't have to be in the form of motion. He can take direction
>> Mr. Mayor. >> Yeah. >> To me this is critical and I'm going to explain to the my fellow council member why I think this is really critical. Those papers that were taken off of our agenda tonight. Please make sure you ask for all the paperwork, all the
applications and things that go along with that CRA borrowing because it prohibits what you're asking for. And I think again, we're going in circles. You're going to get that back. But if they bring that borrowing uh bond issue back and that's voted on and it's
approved, then it eliminates us from doing that according to the bank documents. >> Okay. So that that is that is exactly why I'm I'm bringing this now. It is related in my view to the fire department and funding the fire department. Um, and it is related to
those bond issues which Rob will bring back in January. I think we need this information to make that decision alone >> uh about the bonds. >> Mr. Mayor, >> I mean again, Mr. Council, do you have gender? Do you have your direction on
that? >> I mean, I do as long as nobody does. >> I would like to vote on it. >> M. I mean, we're voting on something on the agenda. >> Let's Let's just get it all real clean. We're going to First, we're going to have the council to vote to allow this motion. Okay. If the three of you
agree. >> Yeah. To add it to the agenda. >> Okay. So, uh to add this to the agenda, uh I need a motion and a second. >> So, moved. >> Second. >> Okay. We have a motion. Second. Any questions? This is just simply to add
this to the agenda. Okay. All right. All in favor say I. >> I. >> I. >> I I >> I >> I. >> House car. All right. >> Now you make your motion. >> Is all legal. >> And now he said by January 1st, but I just have a clarification. >> Do you mean prior to our next meeting?
>> Like the city manager needs to distribute this to us before we meet that. >> Well, the first first meeting in January. I'm sorry. Yes. First meeting in you you want me to restate the motion? >> Well, I think you have the motion, don't you, Miss Sumi? Y to bring back information to bring
back information necessary to reduce to reduce the map andor the rate the CRA >> or a combination of the two. >> First meeting in January >> the benefits of reducing the CRA area maps >> revenue generating uh benefits. >> Okay. >> And uh and of course Kobe, you know, if
if that's not enough time for you, we have the holidays. We understand, right? Best you can do. What do you think? >> I second it. >> Question. How is this going to impact the CRA bringing back their issue?
Because to me, we've got to discuss this and before that comes before us again. >> It'll be >> that's just a technical >> be Mr. Hamilton if he wishes to bring it forward or not. >> Uh Rob Hamilton, CRA, executive director. Um yeah, if you want I can
just kind of keep in contact with Kobe. we've already pushed it back because of this issue coming up and I want to make sure that this is kind of settled before we we address the bond. >> So, if we need to push it back a little bit further, I can talk to our bond council and financial advisors and all that and see what we can do. But
>> yeah, I don't know what the bank will hold for us, but ultimately it's just an advertising date in terms of the council's permission, >> right? >> Yeah, because wasn't there a deadline on that uh the the bank documentation? So the financial adviser talked to them today uh securing the same rate
basically um trying to figure out if they can keep it exactly the same or need a raise like 0.01 or up or down either direction. Um but again I can go back to them and see what we can work out with the bank >> for the last meeting in January. >> Right. >> That way y'all would have this the first
meeting in January and Brook draw back. >> Okay. >> So I'll work with you guys to to do what we can to >> Okay. Is that motion planned for you? >> All right. Can we make one more motion on the same topic? Well, >> let's vote on I thought we did. Oh, I thought we all in favor say I.
>> I I >> I go. >> I'd like to make a motion that we have a workshop prior to that uh uh second meeting of the month than just for the budget as a whole. And you know,
we might concentrate on the fire, but I think we already have something scheduled. So, we've got a uh workshop before our first meeting in January for an update on airport and then you've got a workshop scheduled for your second meeting in January to go over city own properties >> which will impact the overall budget uh
also. So, >> combine it with >> Can we have a special one? >> Yeah, I mean we can hold a separate one. Could I make a motion that we schedule a second workshop of some sort during the month of January before the before we got it >> before the second before the second
regular meeting? >> A budget a budget workshop so that we can encompass all of this. >> I'm for >> that's what I've been asking for. I'm good with it. Yes. >> Second. >> That's a second. >> All right. So, we have a motion second. >> What day are we talking about?
>> Honor before the second meeting. He'll he'll he'll he he'll get with you. >> Yeah, we'll we'll get with y'all. We don't have to do it tonight. We can do it at the first meeting tonight, but I'm gonna need to I think I'm gonna need to better understand what it is we're looking for because I'm not don't disagree. We can have it, but we're in January. We've not even contemplated
fiscal year 27 at the moment. We're we're still working our way into fiscal year 26. So, question is what are we looking for? What is it? >> I think we're looking for some actuals to budget like prior years. we we don't have to go back way far, but we've got to look at totality everything. And then
I think we've got to first concentrate on public safety as a whole. Uh I would like our city manager to look at a couple of things and we talked about this on Friday. um pursuant to the possible state uh laws coming down
dealing with homestead exemption, property tax relief at the possibilities and I'm saying possibilities because it could very well happen as to the homestead homestead properties being eliminated altogether from Avalorum and then what possible revenue streams still
exist that will uh allow us to budget for the remainder of all the city's finances and responsibilities. Um, and then two, I mean, we're going to have some of this come back in the form of fire assessments, but it it's just literally looking at the impacts of what
possible state legislation could be coming down and how that's going to impact the budget and how we're going to survive that or go about it after them. >> Mr. Mhm. >> I'd like to add to that list because I actually had a meeting with some other folks with actuals and trying to figure
out how do we raise other types of revenue sources. So, we've talked about some already, but you know, uh it was uh I I think we need to talk about annexing some parcels and how do we how do we go
about doing that particular >> ver involuntary annexation or volunteer? I >> I think both. I think just the discussion >> well that's >> Tom Tom Thumb on the corner of 331 and Live Oak for example is a good example
that they're not annexed in the city but yet they're under the city map. It's funny how >> and maybe maybe it's not maybe I'm looking at the wrong map but anyway I just thought that there might be some potential there. I discussed other potential revenue sources that I just I
would like for us to talk about as a whole >> impacts both ways too with that annexation whether or not the city benefits from such or whether or not we wind up spending out more in revenues to support such as well as any additional pennies which I don't think there's one
that's left because some of us we have talked to them in the past Mr. Harrison about how can we raise additional revenues. It's just that we're limited in our scope of doing so. I've had to sit down with the city manager, the city attorney, and finance over the past
couple years on a couple of different times speaking about the pennies and what's available to us that's out there. And there's not much in form of remedies. So, >> and I don't know, but I just think as a whole, we need to talk about these things. if it's not if it's not applicable or it's not really relevant
or not going to benefit or there's pros and cons, we all need to hear that together and make a decision as a whole. It's all I'm suggesting. I think you know I have a whole list but it's not for tonight's discussion. >> All right. So, we're just this is the schedule >> special. >> Yeah. >> All right. All in favor say I.
>> I I >> I. Thank you. >> I want to take a a little break here. It is uh I don't know about 12 or so till we'll we'll get started up no later than 7 p.m. get started back.
We want to call this uh council meeting back to order. Uh we were uh down to four C6. I guess you got some more on that you want to talk about. >> Yes. Can everybody hear me?
>> All right. So, tonight is not about personalities or preference. And I appreciate our conversation thus far because to me it's about uh our next steps and um also about compliance with charter, respect for staff, transparency
to the public, and responsible long-term planning. So I believe our next step is simple. I think we need to decide before we've had a big discussion tonight and there's a lot of moving parts but I think the city and we need to decide whether we intend to maintain and keep
the fire department once we that decision is made everything else the planning budgeting facilities staffing strategic alignment can proceed in an orderly and and responsible way. I don't want to prolong the decision. And I just think we need to to place
this on the agenda and get on with it. Uncertainty is more harmful in my opinion than just making a decision. Our firefighters and the public deserve clarity about the city's direction, not ongoing speculation, shifting discussions or undefined outcomes.
So for me, I just want to share this. I said this from the very beginning that I thought that this was this is my opinion. Um our city charter was very clear. I too thought that this was a deactivation of a division which would include a unanimous vote by all five of
us up here. To me, I don't think that the language is uh optional, interpretive, or subjective. Uh to me, it's it's very clear. So there's been some discussion suggesting that certain changes uh might not count as
deactivation, but reality if our employees are removed and not on our payroll and on somebody else's payroll uh for me another organization's command payroll structure or operational control to me that's deactivation. So if another
agency is supervising, staffing, directing operations, and controlling the policy, then to me that means the city is no longer financing or managing the fire department even though we might be collecting the taxes. That's basically what we're
uh proposing. And for me, changing the terminology doesn't change the function, the outcome or the uh effect. If we intend to keep the fire department, external discussions are unnecessary. If the goal is to maintain it as a city
function, then there's no need to negotiate or plan any more with outside entities. Uh the fire chief and his team already provide those services and do so effectively. However, if there's interest in outsourcing or transitioning responsibility to another organization,
then I think we need to acknowledge that as deactivation and just take a vote. And if it's unanimous, fine. If it's not, uh, then it is what it is. Um, uncertainty is impacting the staff and community stabilities. Our firefighters and their families deserve to know where
they stand. Right now, they're working under uncertainty, not knowing whether their employment, benefits, and future will remain within the city or be transferred elsewhere. To have those questions open during the holiday season has created unnecessary stress and moral disruption, morale disruption, sorry.
They deserve clarity and not prolonged ambiguity. The decision belongs within the larger strategic framework. If the council decides to retain the fire department, then the logical next step is to incorporate fire services into the city's five-year strategic plan, which
we're going to be doing that in February. That planning process, I think, needs to include the updates from Representative Shane Abbott on the fire property, our facilities and capital planning, staffing and compensation planning, operational and financial forecasts, integration with the citywide
uh framework is already underway. Again, we just share I just shared about the impact of earlying CRA bar uh borrowing that's going to make a big impact on the decision. I'd like to make a motion that the fire department remain an active division of the city and that
no transession transition for outsourcing or external management of our fire services be pursued any longer. >> Second. >> Okay, Mr. Mayor. >> Now, and neither one of you have ano a proposal in front of we've not even
gotten a proposal yet and yet you're ready to go ahead and jump ahead. I have the draft proposal that >> you don't have the proposal in front of >> I have the draft >> and uh >> mayor >> and let me and a million dollars.
>> Okay. >> Okay. Is it it's worth you you're not even want to consider what the proposal is when they're talking about well over a million dollars coming off of our budget and then a whole lot of other things. I said, "You better think long and hard."
Now, this is not Deuniac here. There's some people out here that I think are are trying to balance this thing, but there's some people out here had their minds made up before a word was said tonight. And she read she had that printed out before she heard a word tonight. And so, I'm telling you, you
you better think about this uh because uh it's not going to go well. This is you don't even have a proposal in front of you, >> Mr. Mayor, >> I'd like to offer substitute motion if that's appropriate. If not, tell me how to depend what the motion is. >> I'd like to put it out to vote for the
citizens. I'd like to go to a non-binding referendum. Let the citizens tell us what they feel about this. >> You said the magic words there, so I'm always going to make this caution whenever we do it. Florida law prohibits an elected body such as yourself from
deferring its legislative and general police authorities to the will of the people. That means you cannot basically straw poll the electorate or officially poll the electorate through a referendum to determine what is ultimately your
decision. So the key phrase there is non-binding. So I want to be very clear. If this happens, you can do it. Nothing stops us from doing it. But it needs to be abundantly clear for everybody involved that the
council can still vote whatever way it wants. If every person in the city, which would obviously include all of you, vote one way in this referendum, the five of you could still show up here and vote the opposite. And there's absolutely nothing that referendum does
about that. Now, you probably have a pretty good idea what the public's going to do come next election. But that being said, I just wanted to be clear. It would purely be nonbinding in nature. Um secondly, if we do this, um I
would make it very clear that the ballot language cannot venture into issues that would relate to potential taxation. We can't have a potentially non-binding referendum that implies a question about the levy of a tax or an assessment. So
ultimately the question is going to need to be and the supervisor of elections will have a say in approving the ballot language in the question but if you do it will probably need to be something as relatively straightforward is should the city of defunct maintain its fire department or should it keep its fire
department should it outsource it's got to be a very simple one question not compound in nature that can be answered yes or no that's the nature of a referendum question if you wish to make that as a substitute motion it does not defeat the primary purpose of the motion. It merely modifies it by having
an additional step in the process. So, a substitute motion is cognissible under rules of procedure. >> So, move. >> So, mayor, you need a second before we proceed with that and then I'll walk through how we go through the dual debate.
>> Second, Mr. M. >> Mr. Mayor, Mr. Har um you know we just spent I don't know how much time here trying to uh gather information to make this decision and so
then to have a motion to make it without that information is kind of contradictory to the last hour and a half that we have spent talking about this once again talking about this um and I don't have a lot of confidence in
the public's ability to vote for such a referendum without the information that we still don't have. >> That's right. I >> you see, so none of this makes sense to me um at this point, >> Mr. Mayor, and that that was one of the
reasons, Mr. Harrison, that I was speaking about the workshops to begin with, present all the information to the public. The reason why I asked for two, one for fire, one for budget, was one, let's discuss fire. Two, let's discuss budget. fire, all the things that need to be fixed and fired to make this work
for our citizens and and the employees to the budget. What are the impacts? And then let's put it out for referendum. Let the public see. I'm not tying that to taxation or anything else. I just want the information out there to let the citizens, our voters understand what
we're dealing with here, bring us back information that they would like to present to us and then let's make our decisions. >> I'll second for the sake of discussion. >> All right. So now just to be clear, under a substitute motion, you debate both the primary motion and the
secondary motion simultaneously. We vote then on substitution. If that passes, that motion becomes the primary and you vote on it. If it fails, you vote on the primary motion. So there are two votes that will occur after this, but one set of debate on everything.
>> Comments. Go ahead. So, I I'm not opposed to at some point, again, I said this earlier, I'm not opposed to at some point putting this out for a referendum, but I completely agree with Councilman Harrison's comments earlier about
all of the information hasn't been brought forward. No one No one is able to see the full picture. And Clay, correct me if I'm wrong here, because the last time we did this, like with the sales tax referendum, once we voted to actually
hold that referendum, we then essentially tied our hands about how we could talk about it in public. Even at even at meetings, we had to be careful about how we talked about it. And and >> that that will be true. You can't affect a political question. >> So So if we vote to do that now, we're
effectively tying our hands on having a discussion about all of this in the future. when it comes to the referendum. So to me, we need to have get all this information back. I agree. We spent an inordinate amount of time, not in the last two hours, discussing all of this
and saying that we were going to have there was three different motions that were recorded for January to bring back information. To me, that's at after January is when we then need to make the motion to have the uh the referendum if we if we choose to move forward at that
point. So I I really I seconded for the sake of discussion, but I would really, you know, caution us against making a motion about having a referendum because at that point we tie our hands. We can't we can't have a lot of discussion at that point. I Mr. Mayor, based on those comments and
the fact that I can see our conversations going a thousand different ways at any meeting between now and then, I would like to withdraw my withdraw my substitute motion. >> No, I'll withdraw the second. >> Okay. All right. comments on the motion. The other motion's on.
>> I can I just ask a question? I I I appreciate you withdrawing, but my my question for the council is how long does a referendum take >> and the B if it's not binding then it's going to be back before us anyway one way or the other because we're going to
have to say do we accept that result of the referendum. But how long does it take to put that on the ballot? I know it was pretty quick with the >> So, you're going to have to have the two ordinance readings is the biggest thing that would have to happen. So, effectively 30 days and it's when the supervisor election can election can
provide us an available date. We are in an election year, although it be a midterm election year. So, it's not like we're have a presidential preference primary, but it would it probably be mid-spring would be what I would guess. I can already tell you Mr. me if he keeps his predecessor's approach is not
going to want to put a referenda question just for city voters on the general ballot for the end of the year elections. So it'll need to be early in the year. >> Mr. Mayor, the council woman, this is something that I had I did not anticipate this happening immediately,
but it's something that I I foresaw could have happened. So I have already asked those questions to Mr. semester and a couple of things looking at a what would the cost be to the citizens to carry on such an election and then two when's the appropriate time to put that
out for vote because we can't if we put it on the g or the primary ballot with the other state elections that are going on. There's issues with our charter and um and how we conduct our canvasing board. So he he uh suggested keeping it
separate from any other election. He did not throw up any obstacles to us being having to be able to do this. Um, but again, I I I agree with some things that Councilman Beerbomb was saying earlier there now that I understand that we go
left and right too much at this DAS. So, realistically, I don't want to foresee us binding ourselves not to be able to carry out certain conversations. So with all the information you've requested back tonight that we've agreed on and then the workshops, I think at that point the public would have enough
information from watching these meetings, being president these meetings, the information that the press is putting out to them to be able to make their own decision at that point and give us advice on which way they would want to go and then then we look listen to their voice in this vote at
that point. >> And I appreciate that. I've actually tried to reach out to many of the residents to determine uh you know kind of gauge what's going on. I just don't want to prolong it. This is impacting our staff. The morale to me is just look
it's the holidays. They've got to understand where their next meal's coming from, how they're going to pay their mortgages, how they're going to pay their other stuff. And and I don't want to make it emotional, but it really is. This is impacting them. And I think after we gather all this data and come
back, if the ultimate decision is we need to deactivate this division, then we need to unanimously up here, I mean, we said we'd never get a city manager, but we did. And we did it pretty good. I mean, you know, we might have struggled a little bit, but we did do it. So, I
think that we can come to an answer, but I don't think it's fair to our our staff. I really don't. I just think it just the morale. And I appreciate you pulling back your second substitute. >> Yeah. And I think there is another option to deactivation,
but uh but we'll learn on that as information comes back. >> Yeah. I mean, the city's not put forward enough information to determine what management would look like to determine whether or not it constitutes deactivation at this moment in time. Well, I can tell you from conversations
that uh uh one of the audience members had with the sheriff's division that they explained that uh the staff would go to their payroll. And to me, that's a deactivation. So, that's why I I'm focused on that. >> Well, I don't know that this council's determined that all staff would go to
their payroll. Somebody on staff's going to still have to oversee the contract, >> whether that's your city manager or whether that is your current fire chief. >> But it wouldn't cost the city taxpayers anything if we just if we deactivated it and we eliminated $2 million from the
budget then savings for the taxpayers. So to me, let the board will then have to determine how to uh fund the city fire. But I don't want to see that happen. Actually, no, that wouldn't happen if the board if this city council deactivated its fire department altogether. If it just 50 vote shut the
doors, period, the city limits would fall under county fire rescue. They would not take over operation of our fire department automatically. They would not take over our properties. They wouldn't take over
our equipment. We would just generally fall right under them. >> I agree. That's what I that was the point I was trying to make. It it would be their responsibility to to supply fire services for the people of Defunia. >> Correct. >> It would it wouldn't cost our taxpayers
anything right now that you know $2 million or I think Mr. Sconers I think you said 2.2 is our budgeted amount for 2026 for five. >> That one was last year. This year was actually lower. >> I thought it was uh 26s >> but but I didn't think that was what we
were asking for information on. Maybe I'm mistaken on that. I didn't think there was ever a discussion of just closing the doors. >> Any other comments? >> So, yeah, when I made the comment about a lack of confidence in the public's ability to make decision, I don't lack
confidence in the public to make these decisions, but I do without information, you know, and these that's what happened to one sense referendum infrastructure. you know, people were just not aware of how vital that would be to this county
uh by passing that and it failed uh because they they were not informed uh well enough, didn't pay attention, but people always vote for a reduction uh uh of of cost to them and we know that. So, if we don't have the information at this point, uh will the will that when we
gather it, will it be adequately conveyed to the public? If so, put it to them and let them vote. But and I've said this in council meetings, the public has to understand we cannot continue on this path and maintain this fire department with the revenue that we have. Some some things some choices have
to be made and that one of those choices is is that fire assessment uh to them. So I do have ability uh or confidence in in their ability if they're informed. The the other thing is our firefighters and Chief Sethfield, they've worried
about this. I get it. I understand. Um I represented workers for a long time uh in the school district. Uh I understand where you're coming from. Uh I understand the worry and the concerns and the lack of pay, you know, being able to know whether you can pay your
bills or you're going to get a raise or or whatever. But this council has proved tonight that they are willing to do this work when we get this information in January. So that should weigh somewhere on your souls. You know, everybody just
give this council a chance to work through this and let us make the best decision we can. Um they are committed to do that. I believe that now they have proven that by their willingness to do this uh and and and and gather this information. So I appreciate that.
>> Yes, ma'am. We at I came to a city council meeting months ago and there was because of this. That's when I started coming to the council meetings and they said hold off and we're going to ask Walton County Sheriff's Office for the information we need. Supposedly you got
that a week or so ago and here we are saying hold on just keep holding on fire department because we got to have more information. I'm telling you right now, if you didn't get it in that proposal they gave you, what are they going to give you in a
month or something? Seriously, I mean, these people can't keep waiting and waiting and waiting for a decision to be made. You asked months ago for that information. Maybe don't need to turn it over to the sheriff's department if they can't even get their proposal together and get it to you in a timely manner.
That is very unfair and none of you would want to be in that in their situation. None of you. And here you are saying again, let's give them some more time. Well, how about we give our fire department their right to go ahead and do their job and keep doing what they've
been doing all this time. >> There's no plans to change that. Go ahead. >> Are we finished our discussion here? >> I think we're in public comment for discussion. close a public comment. >> Go ahead. >> Didn't get a chance to weigh in.
>> So, I ran into Austin Pew at a local restaurant and uh I I based on what the mayor said around a million dollar savings. I'm assuming based on the budget that the the offer is between 750,000 for the city to pay and 1
million. This is based on things that were said here. Austin did not tell me what the offer was, so let me make that clear. But I asked him, I said, "Where is the difference of the money? You're going to give raises, build a new building, you're going to do all these things, great things. Where's the money
coming from? And the answer was, I don't know. I know where it's coming from. It's coming from us because they're going to come back and they're going to ask for more and more. So, unless we have a five-year plan on how they're not going to raise that money, they're going
to come back and they're going to ask for more. And I can say that that is a fair assessment based on what happens with the county commissioners. When they want more money for something, they go and they ask for it. Um my other thing, and I don't even know if this is a possibility. He's probably going to tell
me there's a rule against it, but um if they're getting some of our Avalor taxes for the county to cover fire rescue, have we thought about making that one of the things that we talked to them about? is could they give us money in their budget if they're so willing to do a new
building worth $4 million a and this is based on a county commissioner telling me what the last ones cost. Um but if they're so willing to do all of these things, have we have we asked for money from the county, the sheriff, anybody to help fund? Has that
has that happened? >> No. No. the request would have to go to the board of county commissioners for a share of any of that money, but of course the city has not allowed the non-avalorum assessment to be collected in the city limits. So I think that would be one of those discussions if that ever did happen.
>> Is there a law against asking the sheriff for part of the Avalor taxes being transferred to the city of Definite Express? >> Yeah, because the sheriff doesn't control that money. That's his money that comes through the budget of the county. He can't just hand it to another local government. >> So there is a rule against that. So okay
so you have a abalorum budget that the county creates which then all the constitutional officers get the constitutional officers are then required to spend that money on their responsibilities as a constitutional officer. They can't then just hand that
money over to another local government that is not paying part of that service. But you could ask the board of county commissioners. >> Correct. And there's a the board I mean you know going all the way back into the late 70s I mean a lot's changed since then by the way but going back in the
late 70s the board at one point in time actually acknowledged through ordinance the ability of volunteer fire districts and municipalities to seek funding directly from the board. Now he just said you could ask and it said the board back then recognized it. Of course that
could always be changed but you can ask. They're not obligated to pay. two minutes. I was watching. >> Um, so has anybody gone to the county commissioners and asked them? >> We have not. I've been directed to, but it's in the five to 10 year plan as a
funding option. >> Well, wouldn't that be one of the things we need to have information on? >> It's one of the five to 10 year plan that they just asked for us to bring information back on. >> I'm saying has anybody specifically gone? I'm not in the fire department. >> I keep saying no. Yes, ma'am. Nobody has
asked the county because nobody's directed staff to go do that. >> Mr. Jones, they can't just go ask the board of county commissioners for money out of their budget. >> Wouldn't that be a viable option before we give it over? >> I believe that's part of the motion this board's already to pass is to get that
information. >> Make a comment from the podium. >> Okay. Only one per >> So vote. I do think we need to make decisions because I think the whole morale for the fire and the police is being affected by this it continuing to
go on. I do think that if we got a lot of good brain cells in a room, we could, you know, possibly achieve this um a little faster than I mean, I think we've been talking about this for what, three to six months? Am I I know three.
>> Yeah. At least at least three. Yeah. >> So, I mean, I I mean, I hate to point out that this just doesn't seem this hard to me. It's either they're going to give you this amount or they're not. But my concern is when Austin Pew, who everybody's raved
today, I don't know him personally, um, tells me he doesn't know where the money's coming from, that's a problem. We need to know where the money's coming from. How are they funding us? We need to know and everybody up here should be asking that question so that we don't get another
assessment from them. Thank you. >> Thank you, Mayor. I didn't make my point. >> Go ahead. Okay. >> Well, let's let's let the public comments finish because then it's going to come back to the council. >> Sure. >> Okay. I think that would be cleanest for everybody. >> So, so going back to the question of is the city going to pay the staff or the
or the sheriff's department. Um I love him or hate him, I think we have to give Sheriff Atinson more credit than that. If he's going to run it, he's going to run it. He's not going to accept any liability for it and let the city control this aspect or that aspect. He's either going to run it or he's not.
So, I I don't understand why that was a discussion. he he's going to run it. First of all, that they're all working under the same management. You can't pay one person $6 or $7 less than what you're paying everybody else. So So that that's a moot point to me that that's how that's going to happen. Um I my
comments were called crazy again tonight. I just want to remind everybody the last time my comments were called crazy were the first meeting I came to and told all of you that this was just about to start happening and it hadn't been talked about. It hadn't been discussed, right? Not on the agenda. I
was crazy. So now I'm crazy again because of the response times. Donna doesn't understand she's not a professional. What we do understand is that when the the county is running
the department, the that the mayor doesn't understand at city truck is not just going to still be sitting there at all times. And I'm not trying to be ugly to you, but you're ugly and arrogant and rude in your in your comments and you're not hearing what people are saying. That truck is not guaranteed to sit there. It
might be in Mossy Head. It might be in Darlington. Mossy Head responds to Darlington. Freeport responds to Mossy Head on the daily. I've told you and told you and told you this. If you think I'm a liar, do a records request. You'll need about half a day's worth to see that I'm not wrong. It happens on the
daily. This is the thing that we're trying to tell you. Definiac Springs is not special. You're not going to keep a truck here under the management of the county. Some of your calls may still be responded to in four minutes. You might be having a heart attack laying on the floor dying and no oxygen's coming to you for 15. Is it a gamble worth taking?
That's all we're trying to say. So, stop calling us crazy. Stop being so condescending. We're here to try to help you and ourselves in the county because it hurts us in the county as well. >> Sure. Thank you.
All right. Anyone else? >> All right, we're at >> We got We got >> Dan. All right, come on. >> Time out. Um, I'm a 27year firefighter, retired. Um, this is my home. I'm from
Colorado. I was executive board member for eight and a half years. So, my plate is always going to be on the side of labor, which is the people that come to save my butt like I did for years. You guys, I'll give you some advice.
Stop kicking the can down the road, please. They've been living in a horrible building for a long time. I'm sure that there have been plans to fix the building. I'm sure we've had plans to make payraises. I'm sure we've had plans
to do a lot of stuff. Firefighters have always said yes. Even when we should say no, we never say no. It's time that you guys do what you're supposed to do for them, which is help them keep the fire
department. Don't take services away from us because the response times are going to change. It's going to happen. It's going to be in effect. Walton County for a lot of their stuff, they're a great fire department. Their chief is topnotch. I know a lot of those
guys. Their response times are long and they're spread out. What's going to happen if we have a traffic accident right here and a structure fire north? Who's going to go? What's the response time going to look like? That's where I'm concerned because you never know
what you're walking into every day. You go to the firehouse, you could have cardiac arrest, child birth, fire, TA trap fatality, and you're stuck on scene forever. What's going to happen if we move this to a different entity instead of what we know we have four to five
every day in the city protecting us? What's going to happen when the county comes? That's I just stop kicking the can down the road. Make the decision. Do the right thing for these people because I feel for these guys like they are
topnotch. That's probably one of the best fire chiefs I've met in Florida and he's a great human. >> Yes. The people that come to your house and protect you are great. They train. They work out. Drive by the station anytime, see what they're doing. They're
not sitting on their thumbs. They're working out. They're training. They're doing all the things they're supposed to do. So, per just help them be better. That's stop kicking the can down there. I don't want an amphitheater. I want the fire department. I want them in a good
building and I want them to respond to us to help us. I don't want to see this fire department go anywhere. I want to stay right here with the Funiac Springs Fire Department on it and it's ours. Period. It should not go anywhere. And I understand the $1.2 million.
Don't build the amphitheater. There's your money. I appreciate your time. >> That's for a year or two. This happens every year. >> Brother, I know it does. I know. I I have talked to senators, congressman, city council in Colorado Springs. I get
it. I know the plate you guys have to deal with. >> We're trying to figure out how to get them. Just m >> Mr. Mayor, can I ask would you please uh state your name again for the record? I didn't understand what you said. >> My name is Ty Mather. >> Thank you. >> Defin Springs resident. Appreciate you. >> Thank you.
in U Melinda Henderson, resident of the city. In in relation to the response time, to make it clearer, I understand that the sheriff's department is short units. If the fire department is under him, he has the responsibility to
allocate all of the units under his command wherever he thinks they need to be. And they may not be here. Anyone else? >> Me? >> Yeah, go ahead.
>> Okay. So, the frustrating part to the new guy on the block is that we went through a long painstaking budget season and it got ugly.
And that was baptism by fire for me. We knew this problem was here then. We knew this problem was here. We didn't do anything about it. Now the problem's here again. And I feel the frustration of the people
that keep saying, "How long are you going to talk about it?" Because from where I sit, that's what we've been doing. We've been doing a lot of talking. And anytime I have a hard decision to make, I do my homework. I talk to all parties
involved. I see the pros and the cons. I mentioned a whole lot of pros for the county tonight. But I'm not a subject matter expert on firefighting.
Ross Sheffield is my subject matter expert. My legal expert is Clay. My financial expert is Amy. My tech expert is Josh.
I wasn't a firefighter. I'm not a financial expert. We had a chance to fix this before. We haven't. But we want to talk more. And that's a little frustrating. So, I'm going to I'm going to go with Chief Sheffield.
He says it would be in the best interest of this city to keep our fire department. So that's what I'm going to go with. >> Mr. Mayor, >> I I'd just like to say one thing about the response times and and I'm going to say this not to say anybody's wrong or
right or whatever else, but response times are what they are. And there's one thing that a lot of us don't know. Well, some people do not know. There's a difference between the fire service and the EMS service in this county as to who's responding to where and how many
units are actually available. There's also built-in automatic aid, which is what most of us think of mutual aid. I got corrected on that a while back, so I'll use that term, automatic aid. Definiac's no different than any other fire service in this county. If if we're
providing assistance to another uh sister agency that's next door, they're leaving right here and going over there to provide mutual aid or automatic aid, whatever you want to term it. So, they're not here all the time either. None of us are.
>> Chief, correct me on that, please. >> Come on up, Chief. Chief, come on up. The Phoenix Experience Fire Department has two engines in service. When we have a mutual aid call, we send one unit. We keep one unit in our city and we respond and we haven't missed a call since I've
been here 5 and a half years in our city limits. >> I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is you just what you just said, we sent someone out. Now, what happens if it's a huge catastrophe? that other engine's going to provide assistance wherever they got
to go to >> mut mut mutual aid if you have available resources to send it's not mandatory we always keep a unit in our city >> so it's not automatic aid >> we we have two units in service to send automatic aid one will send automatic
aid but we keep a unit in our city all the time >> and how how many people do we assign to each one of those apparatus >> we have a budget we budgeted right now for with for staff with on on three shifts. We have five on two shifts. What
on each is other shifts and we have four on one shift and we have assistant chief and me so we can keep a paramedic uh all the time on our all the units. >> Okay. Thank you, chief. [Applause]
>> All right. All right. Are we going to go ahead and close the floor and go to vote on this motion that's on the table? Um, all in favor say I. >> I. >> Repeat motion, please. >> Make a motion that the fire department
remain an active division of the city and that no transition, outsourcing, or external management or fire services be pursued. >> Well, I have a hard time saying I'm objective if I don't review all the information. I've asked for information to come in January and I'd like the
opportunity to evaluate that. I'm a nay >> y >> nay >> nay >> nays carry and we'll look forward to the information coming in I guess the second meeting in >> first meeting in January >> first meeting in January. Okay.
>> All right. And we'll we'll do the best we can with the information we have and I think it's smart to get all of it as you as you as able. Okay. Uh, we're going to move to um I guess our planning. >> Yes, sir. Mayor.
>> Okay. Where is he? >> All right. Go to our planning director, Mr. Wallace on 5A1. Just about a minute. >> Yeah, sure. Raphael owes you one, Sumi. Raphael owes
you one. >> Down there enjoying Disney. >> All right. Go ahead. >> All right. Thank you. Good evening, council. I'll be quick. All right. Our first item is uh the first reading of this is 2026-LDC-01.
This is a text amendment to our land development code as it relates to our platting procedures. This is a new regulation that was adopted by the state that requires um administrative approval only for
plats. And what I would like to say is this is not going to take the council out of this process. >> We got a lot of activity going on in the hallway. >> If you guys in the hallway can hear me, would you please move away from the door?
>> Hey you guys. There's no speakers in the hallway. >> There are some speakers out there. >> There you go. >> So, what I was saying, this will not remove the council from the from the actual process. Um, we'll still still do
the standard. If we have a subdivision, there's infrastructure, the council will still authorize the issuance of the development order for that infrastructure. working on my popularity contest. >> All right. >> Okay. So, the items will still come before the council for approval of the
infrastructure to issue that development order. Once the infrastructure is done, it will it will be brought back as has been past practice. Um, but the council just cannot approve the plat. But by approving the acceptance of the
infrastructure and approving their final plan, you're essentially approving the plat without calling it approval of the plat. >> And this is just a mandated change under 784 that was passed this last session. So we do need to get our code updated to bring it in conformity with state law.
This is first reading. We need a motion to hold first reading advertised for second reading public hearing and adoption. >> So moved. >> Second. >> I have a motion second. Any questions, comments from anyone. >> All in favor say I.
>> I. >> I. I. I. >> I. >> Eyes carry. Thank you very much. >> Okay. And this is an ordinance number to be determined. It's an ordinance adopting the amendment of the land development code of the Phoenix Springs, Florida, chapter 18-29,
providing for adoption, providing for severability, and providing for an effective date. >> All right. Thank you. So, we go to 582. >> Mayor, the next two items are quasi judicial items. Anybody wishing to speak on the next two items on the agenda as
advertised which are the smallcale amendment in the resing presented by Nolan Baker on behalf of Elijah Smith needs to be sworn in at this time that includes staff the audience and the agent for the applicant
Mr. Baker just in case you will please stand raise your right hand repeat after me. I do hereby swear or affirm >> I do hereby swear or affirm >> that the testimony I present >> the testimony I present >> will be the truth >> the truth >> the whole truth >> whole truth >> and nothing but the truth >> nothing but the truth
>> thank you mayor staff and the audience are sworn >> so this is 2026-sa-1 Nolan Baker on behalf of Elijah Smith is requesting a smallcale map amendment to amend the future lanes map from agricultural to medium density
residential. And this is for a 1.3 acre parcel that sits on the corner of North 20th Street and W Bash Avenue and I'd be happy to answer any questions you may have regarding this.
>> Oh, and this is first reading. So the we will need two separate motions, one on each part. We can discuss the flume and the zoning map together. The motion will be to hold first reading advertised for sec second reading public hearing and adopt moved.
>> Second for discussion purposes. >> Okay. A motion and second. >> I I realize that this is agricultural and being uh recommended to go to medium density residential. Um has any of that property actually been used for
agricultural purposes that's in that area over the past two decades? No, I can't I I mean, >> Mr. Mayor, we got to >> I say just just by me looking at it and the the growth of the trees there, it has not been used for agricultural
production. >> So So if I may address just may help a little bit. >> Yes, sir. >> So this is something we get every once in a while in the city and section 1849 of your code deals with zoning category
A or agriculture district. I'm gonna read an excerpt. I'm not going to read all of it. Um, it's actually the first sentence and part of the rest. The agriculture district is intended to apply to those large areas the present use of which is primarily agricultural
vacant or the future proper development of which is uncertain and for which a more restricted zoning would be premature and unreasonable. Um the effect being the keeping of such zones in reserve and providing some
measure of control future development by requiring reszoning when development does take place. So be aware most of the time you see an a property coming for you in the city. It is likely not because it was ever agricultural. is
most likely when we did this map because that is the catchole catchall placeholder for vacant or undeveloped tracks of land where it's not clear what something may or may not be um in terms of whether it's going to be medium density, low density, high density,
commercial, etc. It simply was not known when the city did those maps. So what we typically encourage is unless to your question it is functionally agricultural at the present time and that's the use
that is consistent in that area there has been at least from the city's perspective liberal grants of resulting because that's what your code actually encourages you to do and the comprehensive plan that was adopted that goes over all this encouraged the city
to bring its what we call undefined areas which a falls into a defined area. So, I'll defer to Mr. Walls on that, but just so you know, that's when you see a that's typically what you're dealing with. >> What one other question there will we be creating those enclaves we talk about
because of the fact that it's not >> definitely not an enclave that's already in the city limit, but if you're referring to spot zoning based on the very definition of the city's code that a is a placeholder district, >> by definition, you okay? It's it meant to not be agg. It is meant to be
something else. It just hasn't been determined yet. And so this allows the city the most flexibility of doing. So that will be the one area of the city where you are not specifically creating spot zoning by changing one piece of it because the contemplation is always that it will
change. >> Yeah. U what are the others around that are in the agricultural there on 20th Street there's two >> on 20th Street there's two and on W bash there's what like six or seven right
there >> is there anything there is it all vacant >> there are a few homes on W bash and I believe one of those homeowners is here this evening >> is it but up to one of these the subject property that we're talking about
>> let them we need to let them focus in the public hearing. >> Okay. >> Go ahead and let the public address your question. >> I do not believe there is a residential use that is abudding either of these properties. >> Okay. But there is a couple. Is there
more than one residential property already >> further south on Wall Bash? Yes, ma'am. >> On the W bash side. Okay. Thank you. >> Come on up. >> Couldn't be. >> I have to correct him on that. My name is Timothy Krenshaw or Helen Krenshaw. I
own property on both sides of Wall Bash that are butts exactly up to that corner property on North 20th Street if I can point to it. >> Can you come to the front because I can't see I can't see ours is right here. See that?
>> Okay. >> All right. So, all of this property >> Yes, sir. >> we own and it butts up to this property. Mhm. >> Is it vacant that property? >> No. >> Oh, you have a home on Okay, thank you.
>> At the very end of Wash all the way back >> that's all one track. Now, this property here is the other property that they're talking about. I own another five acres here and five acres on the
other side that I own also. >> Thank you for sharing. told about nine >> about nine acres. I own property on both sides of the roadway and that's my objection. Now, as far as the property
uh being used for agricultural, we have used it. Um my grandfather came there, somebody made a comment one time before when I that I was pulling on everybody's heartstrings, but we h it was originally zone agricultural since 1921. We've
lived down there just that long in that area. Uh my grandfather came there in 1921. That is what you called the old Harbor meal quarters and that's where all of the blacks that work Mr. Harbor
lived at the sawmill and that's why it was zoned um as it was. Okay. In that one area there. So that whole area there, Miss Mary, the parcel that he bought uh was there. She grew hogs. We all grew hogs and farms and everything
as well as that other piece of property that I own on the other side of the roadway, which is another five acres that I owned over there. So I own property on both sides of the roadway. >> Mr. Mayor, can I ask one more question? Did I understand you just now to say
you're opposed to this change the >> Yes, I'm opposed to it because I don't know what effect because my family has plans. We haven't done anything as of right now, but I'm opposed to the zoning change because all the properties zone agricultural down there. I don't know
what uh what did you say that the zoning change was for multi-use >> medium >> medium resial >> medium density residential what effect that that zoning change will have on our property and especially the
five acres that I've got being that I own property on both sides of the roadway and especially with the property on North 20th Street there's not much room but I own property in front of which is here
all in front of him there's not much room and then on property on the side of the other thing that's my only two concerns there my property abut on the west side of it and also on the east side of it there's no room for drainage
if they're going to do multiuse the on the u the access sure that's on 20th Street but there's no room for anything being that I own property on the west side of him and the east side of it. Am I going to sell it to anybody right at this time? No, it's not for
sale as some of the realtors have keep bugging me about. I'm not selling anything, but my objection is to the reszoning of it right now. >> What kind of buffer is required there between >> Thank you.
>> the medium density property and his if they >> if they were to go and develop some sort of multi-unit development. Um, and I'm speaking off the cuff here, but
I believe it's a 15t buffer, landscape buffer between those two districts. Um, from what I understand, and I can't speak on behalf of the applicant who's here tonight, but I believe their intent is to
the future owner is to develop a couple single family homes from what I've been told. Now, I know that a reszoning um once it's done, we can't condition it upon this, but from what I've heard and
was told was that they would like to do two or three homes potentially on that property, single family homes, and not a large. >> If they came back with something more than that, that would require a major development order that would come before the city council. Correct.
>> It would. Yes. If they were going to do a a multifamily development, it would require >> council council will be seeing it again if they come back with a use more intensive than single family lots. >> What was the recommendation of the um planning planning board?
>> Planning board uh recommended unanimously to approve this request. >> Mayor. >> Yeah. I'll call. That's all right. Go ahead. the um the properties that you own.
If if you were guaranteed through a land development code that this is just going to be homes, single family homes, would you be inclined to
go along with the zoning change? My my only reason um I could not say because I don't know what their plans are. Uh >> you know, that's why I'm asking you this question because it seems like before we can make a decision, this is not our neighborhood. >> Yeah. >> This is this man's neighborhood and he's
got property all around there. So, he's the one affected by this. We aren't. >> So, I think we need more information. If I may, >> Mr. Cos, we can't get into what the future use is. Your code says what's allowable and as I admonish all the
time, >> you have to presume it could be anything from the least intensive to the most intensive. >> Okay? >> And I think that's to Mr. Grinch's point fairly is he's saying he doesn't know what it is and he can't be comfortable. But because the the applicant's entitled
to submit the request and if the applicant said to you under oath right here, I swear it's going to be single family homes. He comes in and he does some multif family development, we have no recourse because that's not that'd be contract zoning if
we forced him to do it. On the other hand, if he came in and said, "I'm going to do multifamily, multif family, multifamily," then comes in and builds one single family home on it because market conditions changed, he still has that right. What he says is not going to be binding on it. Not saying he's going to stand there and lie to you, just
saying we can't take that into consideration. And to Mr. Krenshaw's point, that's why I think he's saying he can't give a definitive answer either. >> My other point is it's only one acre between both lots.
and saying multifamily both lots they're you're talking about one acre >> that's why it would require a that's why I would require a major development order and come back and that was why >> both of them are combined together is only one acre and you're saying
multifamily I said wait a minute and I kept looking at >> medium density right >> it's medium density residential >> reason for both of the lots together on the >> west side yeah 1.2 two one on one side and one. >> They probably could not build two single
family homes without this. >> Correct. >> That's my problem. >> Two homes there. >> Not just just on that if you would have to actually see it to say, well, there's no way to build a couple of houses there
on that one spot. And uh >> you know they got to meet all the setbacks. >> So >> and there's not much room for setback. >> So So I will say one of the rubs, >> one of the rubs is we're showing two lots here. It is one parcel ID number.
It's treated as one piece of property. >> Those two those two >> Yes. They're treated as one parial ID. And so as a he's limited to one house on that right now, I believe. >> Yeah. You see what I'm saying? And so that's the limitation because the
address is 36 Wish Wobbash Avenue and it is one parcel ID number that is described as a meets and bounds within the town of Defunia CL. So because of that again that's where this gets messy
with a that's I'm not gonna say that's sole reason for the ask but it is important to understand right now he can't go build on that property one single family residence on each of those two lots. So it's not a matter of putting two on one. He can't
even put one on each because it's not treated as two lots. It's treated as one lot right now. >> I see >> on two sides of the road. >> Correct. And so for him to be able to build even two houses, one on each side of the road, he'd have to have this change.
>> Yeah. And >> that doesn't really require much, right? You just go and fill out an application. I don't even think there's a cost to split those. >> Well, it's not a lot split because it's not a lot. It's not defined as a lot of record, but the zoning category still would not allow it because a limits you
to the one single family residence. Clay, I don't mean to be slow, but help me. Why he cannot split those properties one parcel into two? >> Because there's still going to be zoned a and so if the parent parcel allowed one, you don't just get say, "Well, I
get a lot split now, I get two." If you're limited to one unit per that lot, per that density. >> That would just be tonight if it went through, you mean? Right. >> Well, no. What I'm saying is, so right now, if you don't approve this and he comes and applies for a lot split, only one of those is going to be a buildable
lot because the density only allows one. The lot split doesn't mean anything. He's got two lots, but he's got insufficient density because >> for that for the if they were split, >> correct? >> Okay. >> So, for him to for him to actually do a lot split, he needs the zoning change on
the front end. >> Yeah. There's insufficient room is what I'm trying to say to do what he wants to do on that lot. And that and for you to do what he's asking to do, he's going to need a lot split. There's no room to
build what he wants to do on that lot because the original owner, Miss Mary, she used to babysit me on that lot. She owned property on both sides of the road. And that is why the lots are like they are. She own property on the west
side of Wbash and on the east side of Wbash Avenue. And that's why that there is the difference. >> Yeah. And by the way, under a the minimum lot size for a residential use is five acres. So he's a fifth of what
he needs to build just one house. And if you want to do non-residential, he has to have 10,000 square feet. >> It's not there. What? >> That's right. That's the whole that's the that is the circumstance that exists that presents this. I would note the yard setbacks
as of right now are 25 on all sides under >> it's not not the 15, >> right? So, >> thank you. >> Uh what's the orange? >> I think Mr. Ross was referring to the medium density residential setbacks. Once we answer that question, >> we'll go to 15. So it goes down by
>> okay >> would be the change. >> And then can somebody tell me what is that orange? >> The yellow >> or the yellow right there. I mean I know that it's medium residential already but who's what lot is that? Is that north be the arbor? It's the arbor be the arbors.
>> Oh the rental the apartments. >> Okay. Thank you. I'm trying to figure out where on 20th >> that's right at that hard turn. >> Thank you. >> So I mean Mr. Mayor, you know, for me, I
have a hard time reconciling saying, "We don't know what he's going to build," but then turn around saying, "Well, he can't build because of X, Y, and Z." Like, to me, that doesn't that doesn't compute. And I I always tend to
air on the side of property rights. Um, I'm I'm going to lean towards if you bought the property, I don't I personally don't think it's right for someone else to come in and say you can't use your
property the way you intended to use it. >> It's your property, >> but there's not enough room. That's my problem. >> But you don't know. How can you say you don't know? There's not enough room when you don't know what he's going to build >> because he's already said what he's
asking for. >> Well, see, we would not let >> we can't consider that. >> Our code would not over build on that lot. We would not let him. >> Okay. But he he's got to have the setback. It's going to be the 25 and there not that he doesn't have that on
that lot is what I'm saying. That was my problem. >> Well, and if he doesn't, he won't be able to develop it. But that's not for tonight either way. that if you give him this, he still has to come comply with the setbacks. And if Mr. Krenshaw is right, you've given the applicant what he's asked for. And if he's not able to build within those requirements, he's
not gonna I'll go ahead and say right now, your variance process does not allow him to come in and say, you gave me the ability to build on it, but I still need more setback. That's not going to be the hardship variance. So, that's not going to fly. But
>> I think do think, mayor, you do probably have to give the applicant opportunity to talk. I know he is standing up ready to address. >> Yes, sir. >> Nolan Baker, Baker Engineers. Uh like Clay was saying, you know, the setbacks are 25 ft for Hag. So on that one one part skinny parcel, I mean you by the
time you put setbacks on there, you're left with a 25 foot wide house at most. So um the only way like you're saying is to build like two houses is to go through this process. uh by no means are the intent is to put multif family on
there because simply there's not enough room to do that once the way the two lots are uh divided once you put your setbacks put your parking and stuff like that it's just you just can't build on those two small parcels in that condition. So uh the intent is you know
it all started as trying to do a lot split and then we you know went down this path to uh find a means to do that. So uh the intention is to do single family residential and given the site constraints you know multif family is is not really an option at all.
>> Yeah. >> So >> yeah that makes sense. Uh any other we haven't taken a vote yet have a motion at this point. >> I have a comment. >> We do have motion. Okay. So, Clay, the
two um years I spent on the Walton County Planning Commission, the developers would come in and want to change the zoning >> and they would say they're going to do one thing. What happened?
>> Well, it's same admonishment I always give you. You you take you don't you take exactly what the use is off offered to you under the code. Do not take what they say they're going to do. That's why we try not to even get into this here. And I know in the county they encourage
that. There's a reason Mr. Wallace who has done this very well since he's been with us. He doesn't come present you conceptual plans what people want to do with their resonance because he knows I'm going to stand up there and have to sell every board. That's irrelevant. Don't consider it. The county does I
admit county staff does it differently. They make them come in and say this is what I'm thinking about doing. Then they sell it and somebody else does something else. >> Right? But here, what I would tell you is with this change, anything other than developing what is effectively going to
be two single family residences, perhaps three, and I'm not confident. I'm right. I'm not looking at a survey, is going to be a major development order that's going to have to come before the city council. Um, certainly if you get to four, it's going to be a subdivision, isn't it, Chris?
>> It would be a plat. >> Yeah. you'd at least have a major development order that's going to have to come before you again. So, just know you're going to see this again no matter what if he does anything other than put a house or two on there. >> Well, >> can I ask for clarification?
>> Yeah. >> If they were to split the east side and the west side, that's a minor subdivision, >> correct? >> Which is approved administratively based on state statute now. >> Right. But you got two. So if he does
the other one and divides it into two or even if they take the bulk of this property divide into three, all the infrastructures there. They've got water and sewer access. So the subdivision would still be
approved administratively through the platting process. >> Well, there'd still have to be the city's approval of the accepted infrastructure tapping in that way. >> Correct. They'd have to pay the Yeah. capacity fees. >> Yeah. So, in that scenario, but that would require multiple lot splits to
accomplish. Correct. >> It would. >> How many lot splits do we allow per lot? >> I believe one. >> Well, you can do >> you're not going to be able to split. >> One can go to two, but one can't go to three or four.
>> You can't split one to two and then two to four. No respitting. But still, that's all approved administratively. >> Correct. But you don't get the multiple lot splits is what I'm getting at. The initial lot split is splitting on each side of the road. But I I'm not speak again, I'm not speaking to their plan.
What I would say is it's going to be very hard for them to stack houses there without it coming back to the capital. >> Correct. >> That's a major development order. Two houses. You're not going to say that again, guys. Peter, >> what's the definition of major? How many units? >> What's the total square footage in
units? is off top of your head. >> Well, I mean, if it were if we're multifamily on the same lot, it's 16 dwelling units per acre. >> Now, if they were to subdivide it >> sub all subdivisions that are not administratively approved,
>> 16 units per acre. >> Well, this is not they don't even have that density on that. >> No. >> So, that wouldn't even be a possibility, would it? >> Correct. That's not coming back. You're not getting there. >> Is this getting any better for you, sir? about as clear as mud.
>> Okay. I think the city's trying to work with you here in keeping the density down and uh having a nice neighborhood. The caveat would be with the with the uh >> it's going to R what Chris >> be R2 under our zoning.
>> So under R2 >> there's another level of protection because it's got to come back, >> right? Do the uh would the developers put in sidewalks >> if they go through a full subdivision? They could go ahead. >> No, I mean just for residential because
we're >> not for a single family residence. No. >> No, not for a single family. >> So it looks like we're going to be under the minimum. He's got have a minimum lot size for single family dwellings of 5,000 square feet with a minimum lot
width of 50 foot setback front yard 20 foot sideyard five rear yard 10 with a maximum twotory 35t height >> I read correct for single family >> so that's your single family requirement >> duplexes require a little bit more
setback um but can't be any but require 6500 there's no way to get to multif family dwelling gear. >> Mr. Mayor, we have a motion second on the floor. We do. >> Yes, sir. >> All right. Uh, any other comments?
>> All in favor say I. >> No. I n I >> I carry. Thank you very much. And we'll come back. >> So we'll read let's read the um Chris if we will. We're going to need to go ahead
and read the small scale amendment. Then we'll vote on the reszoning >> separately. >> Okay. So this is an ordinance number to be determined. An ordinance adopting a small-scale land use map amendment of the city defunc springs comprehensive plan changing the land use
classifications repealing all ordinances in conflict herewith providing for severability and conflicts providing for cotification and providing for an effective date. >> Now we need the same motion for the reszoning. >> So moved. >> Second.
I have a motion second. Uh comments on the resoning. >> We've already taken them. We did them together. Mayor. >> Okay. >> All right. All in favor say I. >> Nay. >> I n I >> I carried. Go ahead.
>> Okay. And this is an ordinance number to be determined. It's an ordinance adopting a zoning map amendment of the city of Phoenix Springs Land Development Code, changing the zoning designation, repealing all ordinances in conflict here with providing for severability and
conflicts, providing for codification, and providing for an effective date. And all three of these items will be back on the agenda of January the 12th, I believe it is. >> Yes, sir.
>> Thank you. >> Okay. Thank you very much. >> Thank you, council. Merry Christmas to y'all. >> All right, we're gonna drop all the way down to 6B. Is Jaden here? >> Mr. Mayor, is there any way or that I can ask Clay a question?
>> Certainly. >> Clay, on my item 92. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Going to be very similar to what we're discussing right now. Is it possible we can make a motion to move that to >> Mayor? Are you willing to just move her item up and hear them at the same time?
>> Okay. Now, which one is this? >> 9 A2. >> Okay. Yeah. 92. Certainly. >> We want to hear 982 and 6B1. I'm fine with that. >> Okay. >> All right. Do that. >> Go right ahead.
>> Oh, I didn't ask to be on the agenda. >> Oh, what? You're making a comment? No, you said my name. So, they told me how to get up here. >> Well, I think >> you are on the agenda. >> Yeah, I see that. But I didn't ask to be on the agenda. >> You did. >> Not at all. >> Okay.
>> What are you going to do there, Cody? >> Just blame it on Rap. >> I'm not real sure. So, I guess I'll do it from history. Um there there was an amendment submitted um for Main Street's food truck Friday uh for two dates, I believe December
12th and December 19th. Um and then additionally a parade to occur on December 12th uh to go from 10th Street all the way down I believe to 4th and turn around and come back to 10th. Um so need rolling roadblocks for that. So I mean that's ultimately the request that I was sent
to me. about the road or just about >> the two the two it the two items in your agenda packet >> to request two >> can I just make some comments on 6B1 >> please do >> okay so
I want to make some clarifications okay because there seems to be back in January at our last meeting some folks came forward and we were talk we didn't approve to talk about the parking because of the food truck Fridays and the businesses stood up and they were having some issue.
>> Well, I asked Kobe, I said, "When was that approved?" So, in January of 2025, >> there was a couple applications, a food truck application and a main Mary Main Street or whatever. But the original food truck application used to be in 910
Street block, which was over in front of the theater over by Robert Nelson's building and not >> where the downtown businesses are. Um, then the the amendment I think you're talking about this main Mary Main Street or whatever. Food Truck Friday had its
own application, but somehow it got changed and food truck Friday now I have the applications uh with me I believe uh from January and then one for today agenda and it changed because if you
look at the agenda from Friday, it said something totally different. It wasn't food truck Friday, it was special events for the parade, a golf cart parade. And now tonight it's about food truck Friday. So, um, I was not aware that
food truck Fridays had changed. I I went up there on Friday nights and ate dinner uptown at the food trucks, but it wasn't in the restaurant uh block, which is what, seventh and 8th. It was I actually had to walk down in front of the theater
to where the food trucks were. And that's what the off uh here's an application right here on January 27th, 2025. Uh, Mary Main Street and here's food truck Friday. So on food truck Fridays, Main Street Defunia will be hosting an
outdoor event on Baldwin Avenue from South 9th to South 10th allowing food trucks to park and sell food on the city's rightway. And now that's been changed. So here's the application. Can I pass that? >> Can I Can I please clarify?
>> I I understand. That's why I'm trying to clarify because >> there's always been a separate festive food truck Friday. That has always happened on that block. >> On which block? >> The same block? The Pearl block. >> Okay. >> They always ended the the food truck
Fridays always occurred during the regular part of the year. And then for Mistletoe Market, they changed the food truck Fridays to occur on the same block as the mistletoe markets on Fridays. And they called them festive food truck Fridays. had a whole argument with my
wife about this. It's a separate event. >> Do what? >> Yeah, >> it was a whole separate event >> and that's here too. And I do have that and that you are correct. There were separate food trucks on in January of
>> that. The food truck Friday is a separate event from the festive food truck Fridays that they are asking for modification on. >> Correct. Okay. So, can I ask a question? Because my question on the first portion on this 6B2, this is really what I want
to talk about next on mine, but the 6B2 was started out as a golf cart parade. So, I'm confused because is is what they're asking for is just the golf cart parade and not the I'm going to bring up the food.
>> I think Main Street that talk about their application. >> Sure. >> Okay. Bailey Rushing, uh, Main Street Board member. All we're asking for is an amendment to our already approved, um, permit to include extra barriers to
block off for our golf cart parade, which is a part of the festive food trucks and festive food trucks are included in Mary Main Street. So Mary Main Street includes the festive food trucks, our farmers market, and our mistletoe market. Are you asking for two
additional days because the application here says 1212 and 1219 and to conduct a golf cart parade on 1212 with the rolls >> the golf cart. >> It's just >> I think that's where the confusion on my part comes. Uh
>> I thought I thought we I thought we had approved all four food truck Fridays at some point in time. So I'm a little >> Our festive food trucks are already approved >> that we're requesting two additional. I don't think there's two additional. I think they would have already been approved if
>> that was my understanding, but that's what the agenda item before your reads as. That's what I'm confused about. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's a little confusing. And so, >> we just want to extend our golf cart parade to include um some other merchants that have asked to be included, including Iron and Grape and
the last stop. So, we just want our parade to be able to be extended. That >> When you say extend, it was never approved. It never I don't recall it ever coming before us for you to have a golf cart parade. Is that >> correct? That's just part of our um food
truck festive food trucks that we're having within our barrier that we already have. We're >> So you say in January of 2025, you requested a parade in this application. >> Our parade would have been in the blocked off area that we already have >> under this Mary Main Street correct
application in January of 2025. They wouldn't have required any other approval if they did it in the already blocked off street. >> Correct. That's why we're asking for the amendment so we can extend our golf cart parade that was already going to occur in that block. >> Kobe, can I pass this down? I don't see
where where is that parade on that application that's been approved. >> Anyway, it's not on the application need to be. >> The parade never existed. >> That's what I thought. Okay. >> It never existed until I decided to have one. Correct. >> Correct. >> So now we're trying >> which is just this month. You just decided this
>> they could they could ride golf carts up and down between their two barricades >> whether they want to call it a parade or not. They could ride a golf cart from 8th to 9th if that's where they already have the road blocked off. >> Correct. >> They can do that without an issue. I I wouldn't call it a parade. They are, but
they can do what they're asking to do. >> They just want to now instead of stay within the the already approved area street closures, they want to extend that and extension is going to be a rolling roadblock. And they want to ex and they want from what block to what block and from what time to what time?
>> They want to go from plea to last stop. >> Okay, that helps me. Thank you. And from what time to what time? >> The same time we already have >> approved. It's already within our our approved permitum. >> Yes. >> 5 to 8 on Friday night, Saturday night or just
>> just Friday night. >> Just Friday night. >> Correct. >> I think it's important. >> Pretty closure is 4 to 9, but the actual event is 5 days. >> Correct. Correct. >> But I think it's important that the reason that we're doing this is because iron and grape and the last stop want
this. So we are trying to work with the merchants. I think think that's very important. So the reason that we're here and have waited all this time is because we are wanting to work with them. We're we're trying to be a partner with them >> and and I'm not and and I appreciate
y'all trying to do that. What I'm concerned about is what we discussed two weeks ago because I understand from the merchants that are on that block of Pearlla. >> Mhm. >> It's still not resolved. They're not satisfied with the end result we're discussing tonight.
>> No, not on this agenda item, but I've asked to have my agenda moved right up under this because it all falls together. >> Right. >> Now, there was a lot of kissing and making up on that situ. >> Yeah. I don't see any of those merchants here this evening. >> Yes. >> No, but I've talked to each one of them. >> I have too. when I go in there and eat
daily. Yes, I have to. >> Okay. >> Great. Yes. Thank you. >> Very good. >> So, the motion would need to be to expand the rolling road block to go down
to go just past Sixth Street um to halfway into the fifth street block. >> Motion to approve amendment. I I'll second it. I I've got a question, too. So, realistically, are we because of the time frame that we're talking
about, the three-hour window, are we talking about a rolling road block or are we just going to block it off? >> They're going to block off the section they already have approved. >> I'm good with that. The the rest >> the additional accesses where that's whatever those additional ones are will be rolling. So, that's something we'll need to communicate to public works. You
all need to communicate with the police department on police presence. Yeah. >> Um but those will be temporary. They're already approved. will be the will be the longer term shutdown. >> Okay. >> Can you visualize what is a rolling roadblock? What's that mean? >> So I can I can >> So we added that in middle of this year
to the application. Um we now So what that means is 15 minutes prior to the event, public works will set up cones at all accesses to that road. >> So think about >> people coming up that street. If I'm on 90 and I come up one of those streets, I'm not going to get through on Baldwin to >> temporarily. Yes. I'd have to get off
down to Second Street. >> Stop. Yeah. Yeah. About 20 minutes >> temporarily. Yes. >> For three hours. No. >> No. For 20 minutes. >> 20 minutes. >> Short little golf cart run. >> Go through it. And the PD is going to follow behind front and back. >> Mark when they roll through.
>> Mark Bird, city resident. Can I speak? Go ahead. >> Uh, can I see a show of hands? How many uh council members showed up for the uh kids power wheel parade? >> I did. I was there. Remember? >> I do remember. That's why I asked. I just wanted to see the show of hands
because do you remember how many we had? >> Almost a hundred. >> City, county, they all came out. The we had no idea the generation of excitement we were going to have for that. So the
golf cart parade come into an idea. Um Miss Kelly waited till she couldn't wait anymore. She had to get back to the restaurant. And I will just speak for a little bit on her behalf, but they are asking us to bring them down. So, she had 75 uh people coming for that golf cart
parade and they have booked rooms. She also had I think it was a 40% loss Friday night because the lights went out and cancellations. The golf cart parade, I think Mr. Danny walked the whole thing with us when we set those barricades up and Kobe and
those guys do great. I want to thank you for that. >> Thank you, Mark. But it >> Well, thank those guys. They do great. But these guys actually set up those barricades. We We did it. I personally did it with a group of FFA kids that showed up with the help of the city that
was available long enough for the power wheels to start go through, which had about I would guess around 2,000 people at it. And once they're done, we pick up the barricades and we move them back to our block. So the the original plan was just to make a loop. Well, that's way
bigger than that now. So, we're not blocking the street off for three hours. We're asking for amendment to that just to be able to operate in that window, but it'll be long enough for those lit up golf carts to go down the street. I'd like to see a show of hands, too, of
how many people went to the Festival of Trees. >> Guys, if y'all don't get out there and see what we're doing, >> I'd like to show our hands how many I I'd like to make a comment on that though. It's not for lack of wanting to participate. It's other obligations to
>> I know I get dedicate a lot of time to these meetings and other meetings and then there's times that your family's got to have some time to >> and I'm not bashing anybody. You guys support us and we appreciate that. But if you want to give feedback to what's going on on that main street, we would
love for y'all to be there and see what's going on down there. Uh, I worked the Festival of Trees that particular night on Monday night. We had 49 people come through. I personally asked with my 12-year-old daughter, "Where are you from?" I had them from Tuscaloosa. I had
them from Auburn. I had them lots of them from Santa Rosa Beach. Friday night had 1,400. So, we're talking about revenue in here. You know, I've sat back there peacefully and listen, we're missing some huge opportunities here. And I Kobe, if it's
you, I hate it if the decision to turn the lights off in the rain and stuff. We gotta We gota Man, I I literally sat with a six-year-old girl that got on the tree train that's donated by one of our town members and asked me, "Is this the
train that takes you to the lights?" All right. That family was from Atlanta, Georgia. They come to Deuniac Springs, and this is their Christmas. You know what I'm saying? It's it we got to be on or off, you know, and I know it's tough. I can't even imagine what y'all have to
go through with the electrical and all that stuff, but I just don't And you see you see the head shaking when we talked about you had met with the the restaurant owners, Tammy, um Peara, Dan, uh the pink house. I
mean, I don't know if y'all saw the signs. >> They have they have we have January 1, we're looking at leapfrogging. We were just it was just bad timing this year when Tammy got upset. But since then we have made strides to make those businesses happy and it's working. They
they are liking us a lot. You know what I mean? I mean you're talking about Saturday night. Uh the rain I worked from 6:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. that night. We had 300 people out there in the rain. You couldn't get in Southern Comfort. So just we are not trying to do anything to
uh mess up the flow of the city. I want y'all to know that as soon as those golf carts get through, I personally will be the one picking up those barricades. >> Mr. Mayor, can I can I ask Mark a question? >> Sure. >> Mark, my next item, let me ask you something. I went up and talked to them
late this past weekend and they're still unhappy. They don't feel like they got a a resolution. However, they thought they're not they said that they didn't like the negative uh thing. I don't know what's going on. I I don't read all that stuff, but let
me ask you something. My goal is would y'all be willing to move food truck Fridays back to that one block on or or down to the last stop because I understand they they those food trucks really would want either want to be down there, which would satisfy which would
satisfy everybody. >> Would is that an is that an option? So, moving it down to the block where it was previously at, when I talked to some of the merchants, they said moving it to that location actually hurts their business.
>> Which which merchants would those be? Because >> Tammy Southern Comfort said that when Yes. said that >> she she came up here and complained just the opposite. And you're telling me now that they said something different. >> I can I can explain. So when it's moved to that block,
>> what happens is people park in front of her restaurant and they walk down there and she loses revenue on that. When it is where it is placed at in front of her business, she had made several comments to our board and to myself. I have a
survey that we had went over where she >> This is after our meeting last Monday. The survey you're talking about, >> it was before and I talk to Tammy almost every day. Um, I've known Terry for almost 5 years and she is a great hardworking woman and we have a good
relationship. In my survey, I had asked her, "Let me know where it would hurt you or or help you." And she had made it clear that when they're in front, it helps her business because people who are in line do not want to wait in line.
They'd rather come into a nice cozy restaurant and have a nice meal. So moving it to the previous block wasn't going to be a great option for her. Moving it to last stop is not going to be a great option for all the merchants either. And we can get into that at a at
a different point if you would like. Ultimately, it's a power issue is really what it comes down to. We would have to put all of the food trucks on the grassy lot and not block the roads, which would be fine, but there's no power down there to do that. Now, Midsouth Rentals has
allowed us to use a generator and light tower. If we had to pay for that, that's $3,000 a week. So, it's not an option for us to move it down to the last stop area. Tammy's concern with the roads being closed is not necessarily one
event. These >> five in a row. >> These restaurants work on a very fine margin. So, when any change is made, they're concerned and they have a right to be concerned. Essentially, the only thing that we had asked for at our
previous um time when you guys approved it on the consent agenda was 3 hours. That was all we asked for. Nothing else had changed. So, moving it to a certain spot, there
is no perfect golden ticket on on on moving it. But for 26 we can make a changes but we just couldn't do it at this time. >> H how many how many more evenings is it going to be? How many There's only two
left. >> Two more weekends. >> There's only two more Saturdays left in >> Friday Saturdays. >> Thanks. >> Thank you by the way for that clarification. >> Mayor Mr. Mayor I think someone wants to speak
>> Mark. Yeah. Come on Mr. forward. >> Hey guys. >> Oh, sorry. Sorry. Sorry. >> Appreciate y'all letting me have a moment to talk about I'm not so much involved with the Food Truck Fridays, but I have worked the farmers market for about seven years now. And it's been
very beneficial to me and my family. And I've watched the community kind of grow because we've all kind of got together and and build it and advertise for each other. And I've watched downtown change a lot from when I've grown up here. And I don't know if a lot of people in the
fiac know it, but we're the biggest event that the Phoenix Springs ever holds is their farmers market. It takes place every Saturday. It runs from 40 to 45 weeks. We put in like 225 hours a year at that farmers market where we all
get together and sell our goods and create that hometown hallmark atmosphere that's drives a lot of people, I think, to love and come towards our little community. So, I just would hate to see it moved. I know there's no answer that
would be perfect for anything, but I know everybody like Mark talked about the the spring tractor parades and the Easter Bunny and who doesn't like coming out and seeing Santa Claus this time of year and it is nice to have all the lights on even, you know, but I I just would definitely hate to see it moved.
And I think that some of the shop owners that I talked to last year, they were selling out of food and we just work great together. But I think some of a little bit of it is they like us, but they just don't want us right there in front of it. But if we were to move, I think they would probably hurt and they
just don't realize it because we, you know, that this just changed a lot through the last few years. We've seen it grow, Mr. Glenn. You've seen it grow. And we send vendors down there all the time and young entrepreneurs. I can't even speak to Josh's kids and my my
little girl started selling lemonade when she was like four or five years old there. So, it's it's a big thing for our community. It helps our kids and older people that come out and sell their goods and stuff. A lot of them depend on that. And um I don't think it would be the same if it was moved from downtown.
So, thanks for your time. >> Can he share his name? I didn't. >> Oh, I'm sorry. My name is Ward Holly and I own Holly Farms Jams, Jellies, and more. Make >> it up there. Thank you. Now I'll know. >> Yes, ma'am. >> Good plug, Ward. Are we supposed to be approving or
disapproving the um golf cart parade? >> The rolling roadblock? Yes. >> I'd like to support that. >> Mr. Mayor, >> before we close discussion, I'd like to uh read an email that I received. Okay. >> This is from Kelly Meisner. It says, "As a business owner in Defunia Springs, I'd
like to put on record that I fully support Main Street DFS because Main Street events do more than entertain us. They strengthen our economy. They encourage locals to step out, shop small, and try something new. They welcome visitors who may be seeing Definiac Springs for the first time.
People who will leave me leave leave with memories and maybe return as residents, investors, or lifelong supporters of our town. Main Street Defiaak Springs isn't just where events happens. It's where community happens. And we are incredibly grateful to be part of this community. It's a very
special place. Kelly Meisner, Big Love Restaurant Group, Iron and Gray Battalion Kitchen. >> How about that? >> It's awesome. >> Okay, y'all ready to vote? >> All in favor say >> I >> I
>> I carry. Thank you very much. >> Uh, all right. You got this last thing here on CRA. >> Did we want to cover her? >> You already taken care of >> Oh, >> your CRA appointment. Mine's down at 9, too. >> We moved yours up. So, do we want to address yours?
>> Mine says Main Street Fender parking. That's >> I'm done with that issue. >> Nothing from me, mayor. So, unless there's any citizen comments, we can go to her CRA appointment. >> Okay. CRA appointment. >> Okay. CRA appointment. So, a recent
vacancy on the board with Mr. Hamilton moving into the director's role. I'd recommending the appointment of a city resident who is both a United States Army veteran, an established business owner within the CRA district, and he operates the enforcement firearms and
the newly launched battleax. His background reflects disciplined, leadership, and practical understanding of local economic conditions. His entrepreneurial experience gives him firsthand insight into the needs, challenges, and growth opportunities facing small businesses in the area
while demonstrating commitment to fostering community engagement aligns with the CRA's mission and revitalization of the local investment. His combination of service, business experience, and community focus makes him wellqualified to contribute constructively to the CRA board and
support thoughtful, responsible redevelopment efforts. I'd like to recommend the appointment of Loar Newsome to the CRA board. >> Second. >> All right. >> We might have unless consent. >> Can we invite him up to to the house?
>> Yes, he is. >> No, I don't think he wants to. >> Okay. And that's fine, too. So, that's fine. Thank you. >> Say I >> I >> I >> Now, do you want to come up? eyes. Okay. >> Yeah, we all know Lotar. He's been
around here for quite a while. >> Thank you for uh >> taking our >> Thank you so much, >> Kobe. Thank you, Mayor. Just a couple things. Uh first, the library. Uh we expect that to be completed uh hopefully next week. Uh they have some delay on
staircases and some glass in the front. Um so we hope get that done, have a final walk through uh next week. Um, finance director update. You all should be or have received a phone call from our consultant just reaching out to you individually kind of talking to you, understanding what you're looking for.
Um, you can expect a rough estimate that June January 2nd will be the first uh look through of resumes that they will conduct and then they'll move into look shortlisting that doing preliminary interviews. They will do the first stage of that and then they'll they'll come back to the council with what they have
and then discuss with you and move forward from there. So, be on the lookout for that phone call. uh if you haven't received it already. Uh third, we kind of discussed this individually, but the water meter system is moving forward. So staff's been working with uh Southland to get poles installed. So we're working out with that with them
now and then we can expect the uh company to come in, the vendor after that, start installing actual hardware. So hopefully in the next few months, we'll start to see that shift of uh meter reading systems. And then lastly, uh if you've been by Village Springs over off of Orange and you'll see a lot
of activity going on. So, we're glad to see that happening and moving forward. So, hope you get that done here in the next few months. They'll have it wrapped up. >> Does that have to come back before us at any time in the future once they're >> No. >> What was that boy's name? >> They've already received So, they received their DO conditional upon
>> shouldn't come back unless they screw something up. >> Okay. I >> Let's hope against that. >> Yeah. I had passed up citizen comments. Uh we'll give citizens opportunity to come make a comment. I know y'all all cringe every time I get
up here. So, here I am. Get ready. Over the last couple of months, Kobe and I have uh flexed our respective manhoods to one another via emails and and in person. Uh
we came to an verbal agreement about a month ago, I guess it was. So, this is concerning a sewer lateral for the McDonald sisters on Circle Drive. Uh, I had my ideas and the city had theirs.
Uh, we eventually worked it out after we had videoed the U sewer lateral there and and I was happy with it. Yeah, there was a few roots there, but I figured we could take care of that. We did have one piece of uh pipe that a piece of it was missing.
Don't know how that happened, but it's been there for 70s something years and it was doing a good job. I was about ready to send him an email to make it official that we accepted it when all of a sudden a contractor pushed
a line right through one of the uh one of the uh sewer lines out there. At that point in time, we took some measurements on the uh at the manhole and the uh sewer lines.
And on behalf of myself and the McDonald sisters, we want to thank Kobe, Randall Holden, city staff. They were out there at 8:00 this morning, not just getting ready to work. They were working at 8:00 this morning
doing what we all decided last week that they would do, which is they would come from the manhole up to the to the property line and then we will take care of it. And I just want to tell y'all every time I come up here, please don't cringe. I I sometimes might have
something nice to say. And Kobe, we appreciate you, buddy. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Staff, we work well, Mr. Pal. We did go back and forth a while. We were staff we were incorrect and so we we corrected that and we hope we get it done in a timely manner. So we
appreciate it, Miss Pow. >> Yeah. >> Melinda Henderson, resident of the city. Understand that we're waiting for an architect from the historic preservation office. >> Taco Bell. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So we did we had a meeting myself,
Liberty Partners, um and the Department of Historical Resources came out. They came out, architect came out, and so we had a good meeting with them. They ultimately just wanted to see a little more detail on the contractor's bids. And so Mr. Offford is working on cleaning that up. He's been out there a
couple times since with some subs. And so he's going to get that to us. When he does, we'll get a contract worked out, Mr. Atkinson. Let the state review it. And we'll have back to the council. So soon as I hear back from Mr. Offer, we >> I was hoping it would be ready for the coming from Mr. Offer. >> Okay.
>> Dr. Henderson. >> Yes. >> If I may. Um Kobe's also in the process of getting bids to submit for the exterior of the Shiitaka Hall of Brotherhoods. >> Okay. >> Anyone else?
>> All right. We will close the floor for comments and we will go to the council starting with Amy. >> Been a long evening and um I don't have anything else to add. Just thank you everybody. >> A lot of work. >> Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. I I would like to
uh just comment about our agenda item forms. Um you know, they asked for specific information for meetings and I think we as a council can do a better job of of filling out as much of those things as possible. Reduces public
speculation about what we're going to talk about on an issue. People showing up fired up about things that might not even happen. So, I think we need to be clear about what we put on the agenda form so the public is aware and can prepare to come and we as a council can
prepare. Um, we I I love to prepare. Takes a lot of time, but I like to be prepared for meetings and it would be very helpful if we would do that. I've done it myself, you know, early on. I know I would not fill out everything, but it's because I was ignorant. Uh, but
I'm I'm learning now and um if I know what to put, I'll do. If I don't, I'll leave it. I'll leave it blank, you know, and because that's still me not knowing what I'm supposed to put there. Uh, the other thing I want to mention briefly on the consent agenda was the the water meters and Kobe and Randall and other
staff I am sure have been involved in that. Um, and Kobe has ordered that was 500, right, on this consent agenda tonight. >> Correct. 500 meters and 500 registers. >> Meters and registers. And plan is to do like 2,000, right?
>> So 500. We've budgeted to do 500 meters. That's that's our that's staff's, you know, monthly replacements when there's failures, things that plus proactive replacement uh on our new program. And then the registers, that's a quarter of what we budgeted. We budgeted nearly 2,000 registers for this right fiscal
year. And so I just want to point out that that is great work because uh it's going to be uh do a better job of billing uh detecting almost instantly water leaks that people have and notification of that save people because
they can only get a correction one time every five years. >> So and water conservation from saying we audit pointed out 70% water loss. we have, you know, don't know what's happening, but right and and whether that's accurate or not, but this will all help. And I I just want to thank
them for doing that work. Uh and and they brought it to us and and but but that's where it came from. I want everybody to know that Kobe's doing a great job. >> Thank you, Dan. >> Everybody have a happy holiday and merry Christmas.
>> Merry Christmas to all. >> Merry Christmas. >> Merry Christmas. >> Merry Christmas. Okay. >> And I, you know, the thing Glenn said about the agenda, some I was going to make some comments, but I was going to do it through Raphael, >> you know, because I say Raphael,
>> you can't just accept uh just a one little name there for an agenda item. You got to give us an idea where this is going. You know, the the council needs to prepare and if they need to do homework, they can. And so, let them know where you're going with
your items on here whenever you do a request. And so, uh, we'll we'll we'll press Raphael to be, you know, ask for a little bit more information. Yes, ma'am. >> Is there already a policy on the how we should do it >> before we go? And >> it's nice just saying, hey, let's follow
the policy because >> No, there is a policy. There is >> there is and we we just the thing is we we went over this a few years ago and it was uh because people were coming in they just write uh something like maybe
they just write uh >> CR >> infrastructure the infrastructure you know you think where you know is that water is that sewer is that gas is that streets what the heck are you talking about until they got the meeting we didn't know what they're talking about you know so you need to be a little more
specific about what infrastructure you're talking about and and what location, that type of thing. So, uh that's just a little example of of giving us enough information that if we need to start asking questions, ask the manager what's going on over there, at least got an idea.
>> Can Can I ask I mean, I might be guilty of that. I'm not going to sit here and say I'm not guilty of that. But can you please find that policy if it exists and share it with us because something I'd like to know is when's the agenda deadline because you know I'm not briefed maybe till Thursday or Friday
and by then we've got it out and then it changes before I ever get here on Monday night and that turnaround time is too not enough you know if we were going to prepare. So >> and Kobe I'm not I'm not certain we got it in print but I know I'm certain >> it's in the minutes somewhere. I don't
have to look for. Yeah. >> Either or. Or even if we need to update them or just say, "Hey, let's just agree." Because for example, Friday went or Friday when we got briefed, it said golf parade and then today it says food truck Friday something. And it's like >> I think a lot of us just fill in the
blanks and tell >> the agenda deadline is supposed to be Thursday. I believe that's always been said. >> See, I always thought it was Wednesday. So, see, I didn't even realize >> it used to be Wednesday. >> Council changed it to one point. Yeah. Yeah. >> You're right, Mayor. It is Wednesday. I
said Thursday. It is Wednesday. >> Yeah. Wednesday. What? We We need everything from you. Thursday. We need to have all the >> Thursday was the legal submittal for me to do my finish final review. You're right. We had to carve that. >> Either way. >> So, if I get something at Wednesday night at 5:00,
yes, I'll have it reviewed by Thursday. But >> you can't give it to me on Thursday and expect me to have it in >> be, you know, changed on Monday. You know what I No, no, it should be locked Thursday between Friday and Monday >> because you got those emergencies. That's rare.
>> Yep. >> That we have anything beyond Friday, you know. >> Motion to adjurnn. say