##VIDEO ID:uZREj_A0t-k## all you can they recorded their meeting I don't know be something good we want to call the city council meeting to order today is Monday October the 28th 2024 we're going to ask coun SC Le invation we'll follow PL dear Lord we thank you for this stay father we thank you for allowing us to come together to do the will of the people God and to do what your will is Lord far more important father as a nation we're we we're faced with a time right now where there's contentions on both sides of the aisle it's election time and um we just pray Lord that all of our people can get along throughout this season and let us focus on you Lord and how you would have us lead Our Lives pray dear Lord you'll protect our First Responders and our soldiers that are out there protecting us daily father thank you for your sacrifice Lord and all your many blessings in Jesus name we pray amen amen I PL ALG to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liy and justice for all all right we're going to go to the consent agenda which we would certainly entertain a motion to approve as written or if you want something move to the regular agenda you can let us know now Mo to approve second all we have a motion second any questions one one second May making sure my this okay I'm good good all right we are to think we you now all in favor say I I all right I I I I Carri thank you very much we go the regular agenda is there motion to approve I have an addition mayor all right we got an addition what is that i' like to add under 3C we'll make it 3 C6 we'll name it Finance director application I going do more that' be fine that' be sufficient okay motion to approve with addition second all right we have a motion second any questions all in favor say I I I I I I I car thank you very much all right with the regular agenda we'll go to our city manager with the uh bid for the lift station mayor so we're looking staff's looking to put out an invitation to bid for various lift station pumps and panels and so Jake Kyle Jacobs has identified numerous lift stations and panels that need either need a new pump need to replace an existing one um and same with the panels and so we're going to look going out to look for seven pumps total that is to directly affect six this stations and then to have a spare on hand and then eight panels um and again that is because age performance or just equipment failure in general the estimated cost of that is $80,000 and so I'm asking for approval to to issue the it be to receive bids motion to approve second I we have a motion second any questions Mr Mayor one comment um this this still goes back to and I've talked to Mr Townsen about this offline as well but this goes back to trying to figure out what's actually happened to some of the parts that are missing from these lift stations and then um why why there's not why we don't have better systems in place accountability on those items and that's something that i' would like to see change in the future moving forward especially if the citizens are going to continue to put the bill on those things um as well as maintenance and maintenance is a whole broader topic but we're we're paying them to keep those up for us and the uh wastewater treatment plant I I just think that it needs to look a little bit cleaner more presentable out in the public as well anyone else all fa say I I Hi I hi I I Carrie thank you very much all right Co we go to the council meeting thanks mayor so yes November 11th our next scheduled council meeting is on a Federal holiday the city hall will be closed so I'm just getting with the council while we're all in the same room to see if we would like to reschedule councel I think everyone has mentioned rescheduling so we could do it the very next day on Tuesday um I will note the board County Commissioners has a meeting at 1M um and I'm just here to talk about rescheduling of that meeting do we have to make a motion on this or can we talk right away you can talk about it if it helps for discussion because you got to move it somewhere so to avoid having five substitute motions if you can't agree on the DAT let's go ahead and discuss all right I would agree that the County Commission means get fairly lengthy I would like to have our Council present with us during these times so I don't know uh per se that the 12th would be a good day to reschedule for maybe a Thursday or something or F week about say what what does the 14th look like is it a conflict on the City calendar what day is that Thursday the 14th I'm good for that Thursday 14th I'm good for the 14th that can be it regular time motion to reschedule our November 11th regular board meeting for November 14th at 5:00 pm second I have a motion second um any questions okay Rafael work on this is approved work on getting that notice out we'll go and get that reschedule um before we do go for that mayor uh we can talk about it now we talk proba after this uh the council we had the desire to hold a separate meeting for a fire assessment Workshop so we're getting into that territory now that we're getting into finding that date so we can go do on this when we get done i' like just talk about that real quick when we're talk about schedule meetings okay all right so probably suggest trying to do in front of this one yes we can go ahead all right yeah any question anyone okay all in favor say I I I I I I I car before move forward um about the worksh real quick um Mr Ali identified a couple dates that do not conflict with other city meetings and so for the fire Workshop Council wanted to do it separate from our regular scheduled meeting because of the potential to run longer than one hour um and so there is Wednesday the 6th he had done the set to 12th which we now can deem out the 13th those are the three have been provided originally if we want to move it further we can again we're all on the same room we can either do it now or if y'all don't want to do it now I can [Music] an hour did we decide that was going to be longer than an hour that discussion I think that was the reason for having it separate because you'all anticipated it to go longer than hour so November 18th is a Monday we do not that's not a conflict on on for the city looking at November 19th I do not see a conflict there is a main street board meeting at 5:30 the 20th is a Wednesday I do not see a conflict at that time either when's Thanksgiving the 2 the 28 28 28 we have a regular meeting the 25th youall prepared to do it I can get you individually did you do that that's what everybody would like to we have them do it individually yeah because that one's going to take a while start that a little earlier in the afternoon okay we move on there all right okay thank you very much all right will'll go with the D on the morning letter yes ma'am so on October 15th City received a warning letter from the Florida Department of Environmental Protection uh regarding a complaint that have been filed with the agency about potential spills not being reported I've spoken with Mr Karo with Jacobs he has there has been no spills that he has not reported that went above the state statute limit um so all the asks in that in that letter was that the city provide to them in documentation of any spills that had happened that had not been reported regardless of the volume Jacobs was working on that response I haven't spoke to Mr Kyle today I will tomorrow it's due the 30th if I cannot get Jacobs provide to us myself Mr ainson we'll write that letter and have that to the state before the deadline um Jacobs had identified maybe some some language in the letter that contradicted um I don't feel that we need to necessarily go and do that that maybe we just comply with the letter and give the state what they're asking for feel good faith and transparency and so that's the letter we're working on it we will have a response to the 30th regardless of who writes it we will have one to them this is information for all of you and if there's any further discussion we can have that that I want all of you to know that be on agenda thank you Mr Mayor um I I would like to have uh Mr Kyle here next go around if he could or some representative Jacobs uh to discuss that this kind of goes into that conversation of like the airport where we're stuck between a rock and a hard place on what do you do whenever you keep getting hit on delays with Jacobs it seems more along the lines of the city continues to put the bill on those or and we're definitely kept catching the damage from reputation on it with the state so I I'd like to know what they're planning to do to prevent this in the future it's probably going to be same game plan but even further what we're prepared to do from a legal standpoint because if we're going to continue to fund the Su one of the benefits of farming this out to a contractor is that in the event something happens like this liability wouldn't come back on the city as hard that liability lies with the contractor and it seems like for all the instances in the past we've always had to take the hit on that and I'm seeing that more and more and I just I want to see that that's one of the things that I took interest in right away whenever I came on to the council it was like this is a critical issue it's something that we need to pay extreme attention to we were work we were in the um at the point of we're going to have to farm out and get us another 50 to hundred million dollar sewer plant depending on however you look at it just some Innovation and um and Technology put place in there and then we find out that we're no longer in that state and I'm very happy about that but if this kind of goes in towards some of the topics that we had in the workshop before this dealing with blotted buildings if we continue to allow um infrastructure to degrade then at some point it it's going to become 10 times more expensive than it could have been through preventative maintenance and just paying attention so that's all I got on there so I've informally done a little bit of research um in the last I believe it's either four or five years and please don't quote me on this but in the last four or five years City of Freeport has had less than one spill per year and one of those spills was at their plant when they had an event like a rainstorm event and then because the much like our plant the bacteria died in it so then they considered that a spill even though it technically didn't actually overflow any any walls so really and truly they've had less than one one spill per year and here we are in less than eight months with a 100,000 gallons worth of spills I find that wholly unacceptable um we keep getting punched in the mouth of this as councilman scer alluded to and and you know I I understand what you're saying but quite frankly as someone that has sat here for five years and begged Jacobs repeatedly to provide us with information that on on systems that need to be addressed we're not we're not getting what we're paying for ladies and gentlemen something's got to change the the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result and this is the definition of insanity another warning letter from D they manage our plant they manage all of our lift stations and this this letter has been out since the 15th we've all been aware of it and Jacob is not in the room I find that disturbing here we are with a d warning letter on the agenda and Jacobs is nowhere to be found in the room so this has got to end um motion to find Jacobs in breach a contract and notify them immediately second I have a motion second question M clay can you clarify what the the breach procedures are in in the contract please if this motion passes we will have to provide the written notice of their breach identifying the material breaches providing them an opportunity to cure um I presume as I understand the intent of the motion the breach of the contract is the continued repe and continued repetition of spills and Reporting issues to the State of Florida we would notify them of that I will get with the city manager on that um while they are entitled to a cure provision under their contract this may well be one the city's position needs to be taken that we don't believe it is curable based on their pattern of conduct but it that's something we can take up based on their response to the letter if this motion passes have they ever been in breach before CL the city has never instructed us to place them in notice of breach it's been discussed multiple times um the issue was brought to their attention once before for but the decision was made at that time that they had already satisfied the issue that would have constituted the bran they had already C long have they been our vendor for this oh it goes back to ch2m Hill which Jacobs took over that goes back to nine 10 C2 Mill has been since at least so they've been our vendor doing this 15 plus years 2009 is yeah 15 years it least okay I again my intention is one one of the things that I learned as a council member out of the last situation that we were in when what ended up predicating the consent order that we had to deal with was that we as a council did not do our due diligence in notifying Jacobs of these issues we let it slide we we let them get up here and say oh Shooks we'll we'll do better next time and guess what we're at all Shucks again so that that is why I am making this motion because at some point there have to be consequences in my opinion and I don't know how the rest of you feel but in my opinion the buck stops with us we've got to do something different I know this is this is not what we all want to do but something's got to change and if it means if it means putting them on notice because that would get their attention so be it in my opinion you good and we've also gotten comments from the public over this some of the one of the very reasons why this has been brought up is because of the fact that they stood up here before the council notified us of of that spill but then the public started sending out emails and comments and if we don't do anything about it we're to find the Public's trust in us as well um that again the kicker to me is the negligence and the fact that we've had these the um lift stations out there where we've had that supposed to have had two pumps on separate ones but there was only one it fails and then we wonder why aren't we why isn't LIF station online why are we having issues that goes to negligence and this is this this is a topic that's toxic and it's a topic that's that can make people sick we've got to make sure that they keep they take it as important as we do and and I'm not saying they don't I just see a lot of room for improvement there I was just curious is is is is their breach not reporting it is that what the breach is what are we saying is their breach my my opinion is that the breaches the continued spills the failure to properly maintain the system we pay them to maintain the system and yet we continually have spills any have comment any comment from public all in favor say I I I I I I I carry we'll draft that letter and have it said this week thank you sir all right all right uh will go through the front Lin thank you mayor uh 3c4 Wastewater effluent line requests for proposals qualifications um the city we're at the point now we need to move forward we need to move forward with with bidding this project out for the design defent line um I was waiting on the $300,000 we received from the Northwest Florida Water Management District that money is currently being worked through on the contract side Liberty Partners um but we we can't wait on that no more so the estimated design was right on $530,000 so $300 we will still be on the hook for 230 um we can go through the the srf process that's a year out that takes that takes time takes money to do that or speaking on Mr Atkinson we can use capacity fees to cover our portion of that and get the ball rolling and so um while we're working on that we could be done with with Management District in 30 days it might be 70 days I'm not sure where they're at in the contract process but um the the design bid is going to take a minimum of 60 by the time we get it out get select and move forward so I'm just asking for approval to issue that bid as it proposed the RFQ RFQ for design of the F line motion to approve second okay we have a motion and a second questions comments anyone from the public all in favor say I I I I I I ni Carri thank you very much we'll go to the library okay thank you mayor um repair and discussion and Direction uh we've talked about the library I believe we're at the point now I'm I'm seeking council's Direction on how they would like to proceive the library um yeah fast slow you know I have the some options on the funding um so that's kind of at discussion so I can either y'all can either take it and then I can answer questions or if yall prefer however y'all prer go about that clay this another one of those that can go three or four different ways I think I think Kobe's asking for a request for direction you may end up with a motion but I think he needs Direction so no we don't need a motion let me get know I would like to know what the idea is certainly the county the one putting in the new Library over here on B um I'm very curious what is this to look like when that is done in an operation and how it works in conjunction with our library the reason I'm asking that is because you know if uh if we want to take advantage of the value of that historic Library we may want to go back to the original library and not keep putting Band-Aids on the back end of that building and because they're going to have a really nice facility two blocks away and um that that's to me I just wish I could see the you know what the vision is is once that County Library is up and operated how does it affect that City Library I think I mean I can give an update on that in a little bit I'll say before you start it's probably going to constitute a mov to the next agenda because once yall talk Talking I give you some of the more information probably going to make a decision that but I get after well you got an update go ahead okay and speaking to the library director and the county admin um they were trying to go to trium to try to fund that project I don't believe they've been successful I don't believe they will be successful in doing that and just my understanding if it's been pushed to further years on the county CIP list um so I don't think this is immediate solution to the problem um some of the discussions we've had about the library in terms of fix right is I know there's been a push to put it back on the National Registry it's been a big thing well we have got we've looked in the the new addition which is only a decade or less before it's able to be to meet the age requirements is it worth replacing the whole roof and waiting a decade to put it on the registry and keep the old building does the council want to tear the old half off the the new portion off and go back to its original standard you do that before a new library you limit the operations of that building so that's kind of where're I mean there's so many different ways of going about it um and where you want to put the money I find that I would have a hard pressed time to put a $200,000 roof on the building and then tear half of it off how serious is I and I know some of you may know a little more detail the foundation is a very serious problem in that facility at least on the back attached part and you know what is it going to take to bring that at standard and then you've got some serious storm water corrections to do um you know if we can turn this thing into a diamond I'm all for itead so I I think we should we should move ahead and and my thought would be just based on the conversation now I say if we're only 10 years away from it being accepted as is then then let's let's repair the building let's get the building up to Snuff as is and I I really can't see tearing off that back half because because even if we were to do that it would severely limit that the the functionality of the library so it was so small originally so I would be in favor of moving ahead rather expeditiously with some of the things that I've been talking to to the city manager about finding immediate funding that would address the funding that would address the foundation issues today we we basically have an opportunity I'll let you speak to it but we basically have an opportunity we have some funds available that we could do this now we don't have to wait two years or a year or anything like that we could do this now and basically pay ourselves back over the next 18 months or even even the next 12 months so you talk the roughly 200 $280,000 is is the number that I understood to cover the roof as well as some of the recommended foundation repair so I can will that last 10 years to get us to the his the 10 years is what we've been to I will verify that's the actual number of years for the whole building so I'll verify that to number um the original assessment for the roof and the foundation issues was $28,000 give or take my mind at 20% contingency that's right at $250,000 give take um is that going to do it all we don't know until we get we say move forward we exp set whole building and you know like coun SC there's dirt on the window right does that dirt got to be pushed away and retainer walls put in I know what that cost um but in terms of the funding options you know we'll get later into City Hall Old City Hall in a little bit that was one option that may be need to be postponed then on Mr Atkinson's discussion we will see um we could do a do to do from from other accounts here in the city uh there we could go get a line of credit for the city to do this building Danielle and I have been working very closely with our bank that'll be coming forward to y'all in the next meeting to get interest on our operating accounts um and Daniel correct my wrong um Banks come with a proposal The Proposal could generate roughly half a million dollars in one year in interest that we do not currently recognize we don't receive that we have never received that from when I've been I don't understand so that's an option we have to make sure that's secure but that's an option to to fund the building um I just that's kind of why I'm looking at direction there's there's three ways to go about it you know debt to2 two from you know all those things so it's whatever the council is comfortable with how fast yall want see with fixing so I'm dying hear what our architect architect has to say about this well hang on let's let's talk about start interrupt but let's talk about this for a second we have the opportunity here to restructure our banking agreement and generate half a million dollars and then take that half million dollars this year and fix our library move on it right now and then if if before before you comment I do want to go back to we we um Mr Mayor went through a whole assessment not in the last 18 months so I don't understand why we would need to do a second assessment when we had that grant that covered the assessment so again that that's what I'm that's what I'm proposing that's what I've been working with Kobe about Kobe wanted me to wait till he actually heard from the bank and heard what their proposal was going to be but my my my plea to the council is let's put our foot on the gas we we have an opportunity here to bring in a half million dollar we can immediately put that to work fix our library and again I know I've kind of thrown out a lot of stuff but why do we need a second assessment when we just did a grant to to do an assessment I just I want to add that that's one option that I wouldn't want to see us take is debt I'm okay with restructuring the banking I can't believe it's taken us this long to figure out that we've had money that could be earning income that we could use and a half a million dollars is a lot of money so for me that would be you know a good use of the money um if we can restructure our banking to to accommodate but I'd hate to see us go out to debt for to fix the library because that's not going to solve the ultimate problem sure so couple things um I would fix it as it is if we take the back half off um I'm afraid of two things one the cost of taking the back half off while maintaining the front part in a stable and usable condition is going to be pretty expensive in and of itself uh it might actually cost as much as fixing the back half um so that's one thing two it's it's a utilizable asset as it is so I would again hate to reduce that big fear if we only have the front historic part uh I'm afraid that it will wither and die um once they eventually do build another Library if they ever build it again this is this isn't even a set project yet it's not out for RP hasn't been designed you know they're pursuing right now I consider it aspirational um and it would be a distribution center it' be the Big M main library but if we want to keep these buildings alive and part of the community you have to have a reason to use them and it has to be big enough to use if you don't have people going to that Library it's going to be it isn't going to be a museum you go it is itself the park is going to be the museum and this is just a piece that's sitting in it and eventually it's not it's not going to survive um it needs to be used it's like a boat you leave a boat parked in the backyard you don't have a boat you got an you got an anchor it just I've had one of those yeah and we've all had one of those but if you don't use an asset it will die uh I think it'll be more expensive or just as expensive to tear off the back half I would fix it I would keep it an active part of the community it's an important far the community um and we don't know when if this other library or how it's going to happen um but if it gets too small I do know this it will not get used and it will die I want to add um I don't love the idea of taking on debt un we know we can pay it but I I have put forward a concept for how we can recuit that money uh and I would still bring that forward uh as a way to to pay for that the only downside is it would take longer to do that I would actually utilize the money knowing that we will commit to go ahead and make the changes necessary to get the funding that we've identified already as a potential we haven't agreed on it but we at least identified a potential option uh bring that back to the table uh and discuss that as a viable alternative to the funding which we can then reimburse ourselves but we have the money to work with if we reconstruction how what do you propose Council the library yes the the big issues that needs is the roof you have to start from the top down once you fix the roof you'll actually deal with the gutter system will actually divert the water going into the foundation it's going to require regrading around the building the foundation wall is already there the waterproofing that's what's lacking and just the buildup of the grade along the edges have allowed water to get to a higher level than it was ever designed to that needs to be mitigated um air conditioning will need to be upgraded at some point it's a library we need to protect them at a at a reasonable humidity level uh and the other Factor the library has mentioned for that report was the upgrading of the electrical system now that's an upgrade that's not a repair so I want to separate that as a different thing we have repairs that we are I believe obligated and should be doing uh for the proper maintenance of a facility that we want to protect but also that we are leasing to a tenant and they are a customer at this point I want to treat every customer fairly whether it be citizens or another entity um but the other portion is an upgrade and that that we'll have to consider SE just for a point of clarification the agreement when we went in and um I don't remember the exact dollar amount but we went in with the county on the purchase of the property here on Baldwin the the stipulation of that was that they would staff and maintain that existing Library um as as it operates today there there wouldn't because there was a concern at the time that if we partnered with the county and they built this new building that they would then just effectively shut down the other building and so we made it a part of the purchase agreement for that property the new Distribution Center that they always maintain and staff the current Library so that that is part of that is part of it um but again I want to go back to we have a we have a funding opportunity right now we could do a do to do from Kobe we could give Kobe the direction to basically renegotiate with the bank and we could basically next council meeting don't don't slap mob council meeting he could be issuing an RFP for services to to get going on on the repair of this of this facility that that's how quick this could happen so I'm urging my fellow council members let's I know I know there's some other funding options out there but we've got one that we can just say yes to tonight we don't have to worry about debt well if you're gonna uh you're like to have vote tonight I'm sure i' like to hear from these two guys well when you say do to do from what is this do to do from just borrow money from from an account that allows you to borrow the money you Lo the interest that we're gonna earn pay it back is that what I'm hearing you say oh okay so you don't do you know which one has that cash flow I think McDaniel identify general fund she did already or no I will you will yeah yeah um three quick things one one I'd like to see us go ahead and do it I mean things take so long to get anything done if we've got the money to do it and we you know it needs it now it absolutely needs it now um that that basement fills with not fills with water but you know a frog would have trouble uh keeping their feet on the floor uh in a heavy rain but so so I'm definitely in favor of of pursuing that right away uh two talking about designing problems the AC pad one of the problems with that bement flooding is the AC pad is actually slanted towards the wall that is leaking so the water comes off with no gutter system in the AC areas in a Cove two two AC units sitting there if I'm not mistaken and the P the concrete area the whole area is cement but it's sloped towards the wall that actually is is letting that water in so all that needs to be reworked when the you know at some point but I just noticed that if if we toured it that day uh with with Kobe another thing possible funding and and it's not immediate because these things don't happen quickly but do a real research looking for I know Denise has been looking for for Grants uh from from Every Avenue uh possible she spent a lot of time doing that and you know I thought about philanthropist just there there's a lot of people out there with good hearts and a lot of money that donate to things like this you know uh Carnegie did that you know there's a lot of people that do that kind of thing and uh so I ran I did a little research ran across uh a family foundation called lat singer l a t SI i n g r Family Foundation and they they basically do uh grants for historic preservation uh children's education programs and and children's wellbeing so our library does an excellent job with with kids and and I understand they got a grant to do some of that uh with St Joe maybe is that with um anyway they do a lot of things for children and a lot of educational things so this particular Foundation we're the dream candidate probably for what they like to spend their money on uh and I looked at the board it's all family members and and that kind of thing so their heart is obviously in historic preservation in Florida and the South uh but they just specify Florida uh on their website so um they might I found C and I talked about this earlier today they might um they might cater at only 501 c3s right and we don't follow that category I don't I don't think but uh the friends of the library do uh check with them today and and they actually do so it wouldn't be the first time evidently that City can go through a nonprofit with the Grant application so whatever process is take they review they review applications in October and March and they communicate Awards shortly thereafter those time periods so it probably be March so it's not immediate fix but it may replace some of these funds that we're discussing using that we have now and that save us money in the long run we can use that money for something else down the road so I spoke with councilman Harrison about this talk to Denise and grants we're going to reach out to the foundation we're not going I don't think we're going to meet the October one um but March we will pursue that one I need to understand what they Fund in particular how much do they have a limit they usually stop somewhere right we don't want to ask over the amount not M 5 n um and then two or would they be willing to reimburse cost you know cost we may do now to eligible programs are they willing to do that um so at a that would be our questions for the construction portion of f library at a minimum we will pursue the grant working with a friend of the library for something else now that we've identified that's a source of funding but that's what we're going to be working on okay you oh okay Mr Mayor I'd like to make a motion that we direct staff to uh bring back at the next uh regular council meeting a proposal for addressing the roof and Foundation issues uh not to exceed $250,000 um including the the funding me mechanism that mentioned tonight with the 222 second have a motion second oh I'd like to amend my motion to include that at the same time they bring back the proposal for that on the financing side that they go ahead and prepare whatever necessary rfps are and I'm going to include that in my motion and if if we need to have some discussion about that timeline then I can amend it my second thank you have any questions go ahead our resident arborist how do you feel about getting rid of those two treat limbs that are over top of the library and can we do it due to the age because one of the things that Mr Hanley brought about with all this was to I know this is extremely important to all of us it goes back to when Mr Barker was here and when the the library came out asking us to assist then at that time and getting this it was fact I felt kind of helpless at the moment learning what can we do what what what's our role in this but um after Mr Hamley sent out that email the last go around I went and met with Britney I think is her name the lady that was there that took the pictures it's extremely nice took me on tour the library um the bat mess needed to be cleaned up bad it was horrible um but then she took me down and we went around the building and and took the tour and one of the things that I noticed was that the tree limbs are they're hovering over top of that roof it brings rers because it's easy for them to jump off and easily obtain access to the to the library it also you can look and see much of the Moss and the the mold that's growing up there from from all the years of exposure there as well I'm not one that would say hey I want to cut down a tree but for the safety of the library and preserving it going forward I that and the foundation those are two things I would like to know about um as far as do we need to leave the dirt on the side labor or do we need to get it away from it and put in drainage so that we don't have the same problem again another 10 years um because it with rain water storm water runoff and everything else dirt moves so dirt's going to continue to move unless we get it away from there I was happy to see that most of us brick alongside of the library instead of just exposed boards for Rod or anything else you know but those are some of the things that I noticed that I would like to hear what y'all have to say about because that's your that's your areas yeah we we'd have to consult you know a sure enough expert in whether the trees would would survive that I'm thinking they probably would I'd have to look at it again but I remember seeing those limbs over it they they don't allow the roof to dry out quickly you know rain do fall for goodness sakes you know the those UPS of top covered with that Fern growth and what have you that hold a lot of moisture and it drips on the roof constantly uh of course with our storms you know they always pose a danger so if they could be trimmed back and removed and the tree stay intact possibly I I don't know it might take with with the the foundation work that has to be done we may find that there's major roots in the way of doing that um so then you have a decision whether it's a tree or a building historic building and you know and unfortunately I my my view is it' have to be the build and and and that that would receive the care you know that we'd have we have to do that we have responsibility to do that I just have to look at that again and and Tony and of course CLI uh you know whenever we go to an RFB uh and they start to look at storm water everything on that route concerns them there likely become become recommendations to deal with that situation where you have that kind of overgrowth there would yes you would look at that in terms of the longevity and the maintenance issues that would that would affect the building however it's not it's not impossible to have you know limbs over the building I mean we even build some new ones with the limbs over the building um at the end of the day it's really just the willingness of the of the public and the owner I'll just refer to as the owner that includes the city and and the people in the city um your willingness to accept that risk for for the sake of of that history of the tree the life of the tree longevity of the tree and you just have to make a judgment call um there are other ways to deal with the limbs they can be braced supported cabled back um offset might just trim a portion of it to relieve some of the weight and give it time so there's again Mr Harrison said you just have to come see we'll come look at it evaluate evaluate the risk and and then we can all make a decision based on that Mr Mayor can we uh ask the city manager to uh provide us with some direction on if he feels it's cap it's warranted to have the RFP back by the next regular council meeting I'll have to get I'll get with Clay about we obviously we'll consult with duberry our engineering to see if they would be comfortable writing that um be honest on staff we're Limited in terms of writing rfps and rfqs we put them together but Le we review them so two weeks is tight but if that's what y'all want we will have it done if our Consulting Engineers can provide us the necessary scope and we get it done we V on I have a I have a comment on RP or RFQ or however it gets formed um the RFP should consider the maintenance but it should also be the intention of the city to in the future get the building on the National Registry because we don't want spend money on a roof yeah that keeps us out historically approprate materials materials and it's an opportunity to change up some material so you can create the separation between the old and the new although in 10 years it won't matter but it matters now you might be able to get it on now um separate item clay since this is involving now definitely involving DeBerry um would I recuse myself from that or I mean I even know who well all they're doing is helping us provide a scope we're not actually Contracting them to do anything all the motion tonight is very simple for the city manager to bring back the RFP is the effect of this motion we're not tasking or awarding contract work well the motion also is to financing the financing but that's not awarding anything to doberry I'm focusing on the part of doberry only if duberry that's the do a financing I sorely missed that part of the conversation any comment public comments okay all right all in favor to say I I all I I I I Carrie thank you very much we'll be looking for that the next me yep all right sir well we'll go to Liberty Partners we have the addition mayor number six oh I'm sorry yeah this is the uh Finance director application yes sir so Council um I have provided all of you the information uh from Human Resources the application the resume cover letter and recommendation we this was an application we received we're going into the holiday um so I want to give it to youall that you see it this individual I I do not um go one way or the other I'm just information individual seems to meet all the existing um criteria for employment in terms of education and experience uh they were prior Finance director for the city of Mary eser for nearly 10 years uh they worked for the city of Oakland Park and they were the finance director for the city of nville 4 five um so it's up to to the Council on if they wish to discuss if you wish to just acknowledge that you received this and we can wait until we have updated the ordinance or we can move forward interview I can call the individual and talk to them so up to the coun I just wanted you to have it and to be aware of itad I'd like to see us interview this person as soon as possible because if there if he's worked that many years at all these different entities there's a good chance if he's looking for a job he's going to find one um and I don't want to see us waste any Mr um is this the only qualified applicant that we have that meets all our criteria we could go back through the um Matrix I'm going go in my head I'm going back I do believe so because the council is specify experience in terms of Florida we could go back and look again the only concern is that we keep our process clean and not get into an issue with other applicants as long as that's the only qualify one on F that whether they only qualify one or not if excuse me whether they're the only qualified one or not if the council makes a motion to interview this person or this only person that is the council's discretion I just want to make a comment then I'll probably leave you alone for now but when Mr Townsen reached out to us about this applicant to say hey we we've got one here at the last minute that meets all the check boxes so far it appears he's got the local experience in this local area and he's available and to see the The Hope on on Danielle's face over there as we came into the meeting and her going you know and and just patting her foot over there cuz she said happy about seeing it one of the things that's um it has been a breath of fresh air around here seeing Mr towns and and and everybody working together and everything coming coming together like it is so one of my biggest concerns is who do they want versus who do I want they're they're the ones that are going to have to work with them dig into them too so I know it's our decision at the end but Mr Townson is it your recommendation this C to be interviewed based off the experience and education yes that's the first recommendation you have from your city manager interim city manager to that point I think that's more than sufficient regardless of other candidates so if someone wants to make that motion that interview can be said second I have a motion second any other questions question from public comment do what yall so I'm good with it say I I I I I car can we Mr Mayor one thing we did can we do it like ASAP like I want a special meeting if we could because I don't want to wait what we would typically do is check the availability of the applica when they're able to do it and then Mr Talon and the mayor can reach out to each of you make sure we have availability and go from there correct what do we be with in bounds to do it at four o' or during the day of course what WorkOne absolutely because even if you even if y'all all of them want to hire them you're still going to have the employment agreement or anything else done it's going to come back at a council meeting so that individual contract it depends on if you want to but you're still gonna have to vote on the all the things that go with it so the interview process and selection is one thing you're still going to have a second meeting so let's get the special meeting for the interview process the selection element done first this isn't a contract right this is I mean all of our finance directors are salary based on whatever they are but you're starting to see a move among icma and similar entities that um persons that are employed directly by governmental boards receive contracts um so not saying we won't but what I would say is you're still going to have to deal with salary and any kind of benefits or anything kind of that discussion I just meant we've never done that before all PR ones have been that's correct we have never done that in the past okay that's fine one question for Mr Atkinson and the rest of my council members is if as we're waiting to go ahead and establish this one of the things that comes up typically with any employer would be the fact that you can also have people that are gold on paper and when they present theirselves or you dig into their background you find that no maybe I need to look a little bit deeper is that something that they would be um out of turn to go ahead and start researching the candidate to so that if he is if this person is at once we interview him somebody we want to take a look at or somebody that we might would want to put in that position would we be going out of turn to allow them to go ahead and do due diligence dig into their background see if there's any skeletons in the closet that might prevent us from moving forward even if we did decide we can do we can do the prary parts background checks you can't go through the full formal background check until you're at the point of higher but we can go ahead and begin that process since you're like we would for anybody else you'd be bringing forward with interview thank you sir an individual did Mark that we made contact previous reference so if council's good with me be in that capacity I will call the city manager of that City and have that discussion that would be my recommendation when Mr Townson which ones are on there are all three of those ones that you mentioned on there correct he has marked that individual marked that you can contact for reference of all three his last three c f I would Rec counil just had to ask him I'll guarantee you if there's any glitches he'll bring them up I didn't there's not a lot of good stuff coming out this meeting so okay so we got that pass right yes RAF and I work all of you to find a date soon possible to hold that the candidate now we bring up Liberty Partners good evening mayor councel uh this item is going to look familiar if you recall at your last meeting on October 14th uh we brought a funding opportunity to you uh from the Florida Department of Commerce the Community Development block grant small cities program um there was a conversation about what you know we felt like might be the best project to pursue at this time um and the council Express desire to have a special meeting which you held last Thursday to go over some of these potential projects um after um after long you know good conversation about projects that the city would like to see pursued um it was determined that the 20th Street sidewalk project phase two uh would be what the city would make application for so we're simply coming back before you tonight to have the um to have the second public hearing uh with regards to that application so uh if we could just open the floor to any you know public comments with regards to that that project Mr Mayor clay do we need to actually make that in form of a motion no as long as the mayor calls Republic comment that satisfies the purposes all right will for public comment on that cdbg Grant opportunity and I think CLI last time you were here you told us that the design was all done is that correct yes mayor we before our special meeting um yeah CL you're good I've already thought before our special meeting I spoke to the county uh design been been completely done for all of between Walton and 90 they're out to bid right now for construction of phase one which is from Walton Road to to the college um and then this will be phase two Design's done they've given us design they're more willing to do that and so we will be going just for construction aw and we we are including in that application the addition of the lighting correct one one I guess one question I wanted to clarify are we going to include lighting just on our portion or are we going to try to fund lighting for the entire 20th Street cost look at Cost okay okay what was the territory well so so the county is already bu basically building and putting out to bid the first half basically from Walton Road to Emerald Coast Technical College and then we're through this cdbg grant we're going to go from Emerald Coast Technical College to Highway D and I just want to clarify if we can look at lighting the entire stretch because I know cost estimate for our portion was coming in at I think 4 480,000 487 so that roughly leaves 250 on the table that we could use maybe to light the entire length possibly so that that's what I'm asking if we could just evaluate that and Tim had submitted some questions ver fall to the county anyway so Tim you'll just send us that other question we'll get with Anna and see if they had that considered I don't believe they did looking at there itemized list for construction so we could ask find thank you the second hearing and we need to vote to adopt if there are no public comments call any other comment there be a motion to authorize Liberty Partners to proceed with the Community Development blr second all right we have a motion and a second any question anyone all in favor say I I all right I I I that's Carri thank you so much we'll get that in thank youer I we see your pretty face tonight okay all right we go to um public hearing ordinances with our City attorney on second reading the city manager ordinance thank you mayor this is second reading in public hearing for adoption of the city manager qualification ordinance I need a motion to hold second reading conduct public hearing and to thereby adop mov second have a motion and a second any question question go ahead need need to vote first what the it might matter a lot more to him than it does to me allv say Okay ordinance number Mr Clark yes sir it is ordinance 978 ordinance number 978 an ordinance providing for the amendment of ordinances 506 and 892 chapter 2 Administration Article 2 officers and employees division three city manager section 2-44 qualifications and providing for an effective date thank you mayor thank you very much are you going to handle us Cod I I am I'll take care of the next one as well so this is the second reading public hearing for adoption of our animals and foul ordinance I need a motion to hold second reading public hearing and to adopt have a motion a second you know yes okay any question any questions from public all in favor say I I I I I I mrus thank you this will be ordinance number 980 correct or 979 979 do we have not have a 979 already reserved no for the annex Mr Wallace you tell me 979 I'm going to go with it 979 if he has to re advertise I'm going to make you personally car paper so we're going to go with ordinance 979 I show a reservation there but we'll go with it ordinance 979 an ordinance repealing in full ordinance number 465 and thereby replacing in its entirety chapter four animals and foul of the city of defix Springs M code who creating a new chapter four entitled animals and file providing for conflict severability and an effective dat thank you thank you very much okay we're going to go to 5A with Mr Josh irn yeah on the CRA appointments good evening mayor council I have in front of you uh tonight a request to appoint the chair and the vice chair for the CRA board little back ground information on this this stems from our adopted Charter in part three of chapter 163 on uh October the 16th the CRA board made a recommendation for Reynolds Henderson to be chair and Kathy Mosley to be Vice chair so we're coming to you as a governing body to request that formal um appointment for the 2025 term motion to approve second I have a motion second any questions yes go ahead CL U with being a client do I need to do anything on this one or just no no sir it's an unpaid position he receives no benefits so it does not inure to a special private gain or loss and you're at this point just merely appointing and you're required to appoint The Chair by Statute so I see no conflict any questions from comments all in favor say I I all hi Carrie thank you Josh a great job keep up the good work thank you I appreciate it all right now we go to Mr Cliff you want give us an update from the terminal good evening mayor councel uh thank you for the opportunity to be here um wanted to uh try to give you guys uh kind of some uh Direction on where we're at uh we submitted a report with some uh photos and documentation of where we're at in terms of progress on the airport terminal uh to Mr Kobe last week and uh you guys directed me two weeks ago to ask Dominguez design build to come present to you uh their proposed schedule and to uh discuss the project with you uh I will say things have come been coming along very good um they're making good progress um got some tile going down and painting is pretty well completed so they're making progress but uh Mr Dominguez is here today he's the owner of Dominguez design build and Jimmy Seward is also here today he's the project manager that I've been working with since we started the project uh and I will let them uh speak with you guys directly thank you y want to come and kind give us a real quick evaluation then we'll open it up for questions Mr mayor council members how you doing this evening good first of all I'm I'm sha Dominguez and the owner of Dominguez design build obviously the general contractor um you hired to complete the uh the airport terminal appreciate you letting me speak taking the opportunity I want to give you a quick update on the project as well as address any concerns or questions you have um before I open up for questions first of all the schedule um obviously I probably more than anybody I'm painfully aware how far we are behind schedule um we've had sign ific challenges with this project um probably one of the most challenging projects we've done to date and we do a lot of federal work for that matter so um but anyways you know as the owner of the construction company um my job our agreement was to provide you a schedule or a a project completion on budget on time and I have failed on the on time portion so you know I'm I own that I'm accountable for that but we're um we're going to get it fixed I promise you that I was at the site today um we have passed a major inspection this afternoon which is good we have some other finishing items that are coming in um various scopes of work talked about flooring Cabinetry those sort of things so I feel we're very very close um and we are committed I'm here to tell you we're committed to providing you with the beautiful building that the city and the citizens of this of Def ex Springs will be proud of as well as our company we are really when we got this project we were very excited and we're still excited about it we just got to complete this thing and do it do a good job on it safely and number one safely and then also high quality obviously so um that being said I'm here to address any of your questions or concerns and then just talk about where we are you know what questions do you have for us I have one up front question what what is your definition of very very close well again we're getting into finishing now and so with this project there's some intricate finishing scopes of work really that are unique to this project if you will so you know I could tell you we substantial completion we're looking at probably um an early December is but if we're talking about ribbon cutting occupancy us walking away and giving you the keys I'm going to say probably end of January and that's our honest assessment but that includ that you know that's punchless items complete and everything we we will leave and I turn the building over to you so that's that's where we're at so I was reflecting on on some of this today as I prepared for the meeting um it's interesting because uh to a certain extent I'm on the other side of the coin on this one um in in previous projects not not related to the airport for hollow Brotherhood for those of you that have been around you know you might remember that I was I was on the other side of the coin I was saying you know let's move on let's move on from the contractor and the architect and and here I am on the other side of it I really believe that we need to to give Deb the opportunity to finish this up and the reason why as I reflected on that the reason why I believe that this is different is because in in our previous case we were out of money we were out of time and the building wasn't complete in this case we have the money it's just a matter of of time as my my father was a contractor and he used to say all the time that your your subs can make or break you and and that's what I'm hearing um when when Cliff gives presentations when whenever I hear uh Mr Dominguez here the talk I hear that he's struggling with his Subs um and as I have a brother that's in general Contracting right now Subs um are just kind of hard right now to to meet deadlines and to have them even show up um I can attested that with with the theater uh doing some Roofing work um trying to get everybody on the same page was like hurting cats to say the least so I can can't imagine this gentleman's uh stress load when it comes to that sort of thing so uh while I don't think that December or January is is ideal it's not a matter of where we're out of money and we we don't have a completed building it's just a matter of we've got to get the right contractors in the right time I had a fairly extensive call with Cliff today thank you Cliff for making that phone call and he he answered some of the questions about why we're doing some of the things we're doing in the particular order so I would I would ask my fellow council members to Let's extend some Grace I think it speaks a lot of him that he has stepped forward and and owned the timeliness issue um so I would I would ask that we extend some Grace and some mercy to him and let's let's get this building complete and it be something that we're all proud of hear that from him pretty miraculous he well I appreciate your understanding I mean like said go ahead so my I'm just curious if we would extend and and allow it to go until January what happens when we get to January and and it's not complete it's not going to happen but if it does what can we all agree to right now today that this will be this is how we would move forward if it wasn't I would agree to anything in particular not knowing where we're at and what the situation is in January I would like to see it complete and I expect they can be complete by then based on what I've walked through and seen now what they were dealt to work with to build the building was not complete that's why we don't have that engineer anymore they B are building off bit set and they've had to overcome that I'm sensitive to that and to be frank it's costing them a lot more to still be on this job site than it's costing us you if Council tells me that we have to be in there because of something that's going to generate Revenue tomorrow we can have that conversation but I don't think we have a lot right there I mean moving some people over from a building we already have to this building is not exactly a uh the kind of thing that would be worth uh the kind of pain that would be inflicted on all of us to go through the process that um that this will go to I I kind of echo same sentiments from everybody but I I also know we're coming in the holiday season we're have Thanksgiving we're have Christmas I know that we are now entering into hunting season and it's been my experience that most construction workers all take off and go hunting and and then the job would just have to wait till the first of the year anyway at that point so realistically you're you're facing a lot of battles between now and then I just would I'm hearing it in your voice and I think we have that commitment that you're going to push it as hard as you can to have it done end of January um to the councilwoman hein's standpoint at the end of January if it's not done there's a lot of there's a lot of good you can do in this community to show that you're trying to move you you're trying to make it right at that point I I don't want to get into details or anything else or thoughts I'm just going and and we took that into consideration because we were we believe December and I don't want to put this out for public consumption but we believe we can get done in December but with Thanksgiving Christmas you see those slowdowns so we did take that into account thank you for being here thank you for hearing me out want to establish a date or we just want to we look for an update on the first meeting in January make a decision there i' ask for a report from our engineer by the end of the calendar year I would even or every month yeah from now until the end until yeah that's reason I'd say we track it every month so we get a November December report January we we're prepared at that point to make a decision when's your next Mr dingz are you prepared to have someone who could be here alongside Mr n whether it's you or someone else question okay Mr Townson will get you we'll resched when's the next meeting always a second Monday well we're debating that next meeting right now that's true Mr Townson will get with you about our November meeting that's up in the a due to the federal holiday then we we typically only do one December meeting we don't typically do the second Monday correct and that is that is not scheduled so we will not have second meeting December that was what council approved well the first one second Monday December so you'll kind of have a little bit of a back toback there so you'll have one later in November mid to late November and then you'd have a report second week of December be about 30 days apart even if you do the 18th we have not the special meeting we go figure we got too many meeting on 14th and then the second one in January I mean the first meeting in January December so December DEC so the November 11th meeting has been will be scheduled to November 14th we will continue with the November 25th council meeting which is standard and then you will have the first meeting December 9th so November 14th and December 9th right Rafael correct all right cler says yes so he's giving you the dates Mr Dominguez can you give us an executive summary of what really is left what is it that needs still needs to be done between now and January Jimmy want to give a quick uh quick update fines finish so Cabinetry finishes flooring um finish up the painting uh ceiling tile those things and then obviously punch list items and clean up final cleaning okay and do we have that Kobe you have all of that Mr now has that has been working with Mr seart on that when they got their f s from Architects okay and so so whatever that list is can you bring that so that we can have okay this is what we've accomplished between that to know whether it's realistically I believe Mr may have provided that to us it's not recall receiving it you want to speak on the list we at percentage wise C roughly I think I think they've already completed all of or very large yes ma'am we we got a punch list from The Architects when they came for their site visit and we provided that to ddb and they've completed significant portion of those already um and so um we can certainly uh certainly provide an update on what's been done between now and November 14th for example um that would be fairly easy to do and then we're not scheduling The Architects to come back until the interior finishes are complete because you know when when they come back up to do basically their final punch list we want to make sure that everything's completed and so uh their last uh visit uh was good because we caught we caught a few things that needed to be addressed but their next visit is really going to be uh you know a chance for them to see the building completed with a thorough punch list thank you thank you that okay all right uh we'll go to Citizen comments are we ready for that okay we're going to open the floor citizen comments if uh you want to make a comment to the council please come state your name organization you're with and keep within three minutes three minutes just three minutes Stuart Duncan Community disc golf just want to give an update we held the lakeyard the sixth annual lakeyard launch on October the 12th we didn't have the turnout we wanted we hoped for but we did have quite a few people show up uh we had one gentleman from Tennesse one from Texas two spend the night at the holiday in express and we had several go through um the towns and everything Mr Beer bomb I'll have to give him credit because the store was open and we had one person came back said he was upset because his wife had the wallet and the wife was in another town so I apologize Mr beerbom um we did have a good we had uh like I said we had some good turnouts we had some good people show up give us a lot of Kudos um we did redesign the course to make it better next year we are trying to our goal is to in the next couple years actually have a two-day tournament that should have about 300 people here um I'm hoping to come to y'all and say y'all come back say Hey you had too many people there that's what my goal is so I'm working on it but uh again I want to say thank y'all for allowing us to host this this event and I also want to donate $250 for from the event we had like to see who I can give this to miss okay money lady I wait again thank y'all very much for allowing us to have this event and thank you very much question thank you anyone else yes didn't have a meeting without hearing from me uh lest you think I'm not doing my job I did hear from the um um doctor at the National Park Service who's reviewing our our nomination for National Historic Landmark for the Sha campus she says she's not through reviewing it for the second time quite but she already knows there's going to be a slight revision but she did not renig on her estimation that we would be in Washington next fall there is a hurdle in between now and then and that is that once she puts her stamp on it it goes to historians all over the country and so there's a caveat in there but she's thinking that and the fall of 25 we can hope to maybe be heard in washing thank you very much keep up a good work anyone else okay then we'll close the floor for C comments go to our City attorney on the cell of the Old City all yes sir mayor with regard to that issue with regard to S the old I think everybody's well aware that we have had a question raised about the environmental Indemnity and specifically the fact that they have had environmental reports that have come back and indicate there may at some point have been some concern for contamination on site D has said they don't have enough information to determine what if any contamination exist or if any remediation would even be necessary nonetheless CCB has taken the position they're concerned this might be a contaminated site that would pose problems I want to go and put on the record I've talked to CCB talk I know Kobe has I've spoken the hunter with them as well today to try to talk about what could be done I'm presenting to you in your packet their proposed indemnification agreement what they're referring to as an environmental Indemnity agreement in its original form as they presented it to us I will say at the outset of this conversation and my conversations with them first they presented us what they wanted now we didn't say we're going to accept this but I feel it was very important since they're the ones with the concern show us what you want so that you as a council can see it because the only chance I get to talk to you is in this setting this is not litigation therefore I cannot go to Executive session and hash this out so we have to do it on public me that's point one point two they made it very clear if there's language or terms that Mr towns and I would like to negotiate to soften this agreement and I will say on the record there are several that I would request they're willing to entertain those and discuss them back and forth but to do that of course they're going to be looking for an extension of the contract which is set to close November 5th so that's one point there what I will say right now is I believe the agreement as it's presented to you is to open-ended for the city I believe it creates an open-ended Indemnity and potentially an open-ended cost to the city I cannot advise that I cannot recommend it uh I can tell you that it additionally puts the burden on the city to go through and obtain additional information from FD now if we were retaining the property me we may well do that we may well not do that I can't sit here and gear guarantee you can guarantee them what fdp is going to do in the future what I can tell you is when sites have any form of contamination with fdp uses are generally not restricted to something that is not a change from what it already is you're not going to have somebody who has a commercial or industrial site go to residential they're not going to let you put residential housing on top of one of those contaminated sites they're not going to allow extractive uses they're not going to allow groundwater penetrations well s sites place there things of that nature but they're usually not going to stop you from using so in my mind if they're allowed to use it for their contemplated use and there's nothing from D that says they can this is not a big issue but I will say and I feel obligated to say this to the because Mr Townson and I spoken and Kobe has left but he can certainly chime in when he comes back in it's always been made clear to us that the bank's location would be closest to 331 so it would be where the planning Annex is they've been very very clear about that we've heard that time and again and they were going to look at other uses for the city hall building so for the first time today the comment was made to me that they intend to sell that part of the product now why do I bring that up because a comment I made to CCB that I won't on the record to you is I would actually be very inclined if we worked out who's going to go to D about asking for this additional information who's going to go through that process to look at limiting the city's liability to not run with the land but to run with purchaser of CCB for this site in other words if you want to use it as a bank we know we have whatever liabilities out there right now we're well aware that's ours right now today we'll sell it to you and as long as you want to use it as a bank and do what you want you're not impaired use the site enjoy it make good use of it it will indemnify you during time you have it but when they get ready to turn in profit or do something with it our Indemnity is clear then that's up to them to figure that out with d in the future I would have been prepared to come in there today and make that recommendation I thought frankly if the council had agreed to it that would have been a very generous offer in this kind of scenario when I brought that to CCB while they stressed they very much want the property they did say well we've always made it clear we were going to sell the Old City Hall so I must have missed that and I profess if y'all knew that I didn't and so Mr Townson didn't so I'm not sure who knew if anybody knew they actually intended to sell that off or if maybe that's a new recent development but I can certainly understand why they now are using phrases like we have a hot site and we're concerned with what DP is going to do because now we have to disclose that to someone else so I I had this is one of those things I struggle with Council I come here I plan to give you my general advice on the topic and let it be most of the time and today I got information that really shifts how I was viewing everything I was doing in this discussion because it sounds to me like they're going to do a cleanup either way it sounds to be like their Engineers are going to encourage them to do a cleanup what I can tell you is without knowing what the cleanup is the scope of it or [Music] otherwise what's written here we can't get close to signing this and more importantly anybody who's familial D cleanups knows that when you do a remediation you can have a partial closure complete closure those terms very a little bit but ultimately getting a completely clean site is the hardest thing to do and the vast majority of people people who participate in limited fund cleanups or pay their own money for cleanups end up in what's considered a partial closure basically it's determined it's been remediated as much as it can reasonably be remediated in the chance of migration or contamination to adjacent sites the water table or otherwise is so limited that DP will sign off all your neighbors sign off perhaps you're affecting State lands they don't care that is a common outcome now doesn't sound like that's what they want sounds like they're wanting a complete closure and we have no way of knowing what it looks like and so when it's saying we will at our sole cost conduct an investigation assessment evaluation clean up Andor remediation I can't get close to recommending that I can't get close to even suggesting that's what we do they definitely want and I recognize is the desire of the city to sell the Old City Hall I recognize financially that is beneficial to the city I recognize we need to do it I would just simply say to you whatever liability you've got there on the site is definitely not any greater than what it is if you sign this agreement but considering D has never said a word to us in all this time about it I don't don't know that this doesn't stretch us quite a bit more than we wanted I'll also say we talked about AIS contracts and this being an AIS sale many times before at some point we're not selling this for the highest and best use we're selling this because we don't have a need for that's typically an AIS conveyance fact they've decided that's the case that they want to go through this process it shifts the Focus away from where I thought we were in this not telling you to to reject this agreement and reject an extension but what I'm telling you is if you want us to negotiate better on this we'll do our best um I hate to say we can't get there with anything but I can tell you at this point I wouldn't even be willing to suggest the kind of language I did originally because they don't appear interested in that they appear to want complete protection from something that we don't know about now Mr Townson I've already talked should the council say we're not sticking in this we want to go a different direction we may well reach out to the city's Engineers DP to have that conversation one to one about us and you know of course if we go to the trouble of making sure this is right the next guy may have to pay more money but that's what I need to hear from you um I'll say this I do not recommend approval of the agreement as present and I will gladly Listen to If you say go back and negotiate more I will but that was a surprise to me to hear that they intend to sell part of the site let me just say the party that made it the same offer prior to them is still interested and so I'll be more than glad to talk to them if uh see if they have issue with this particular environmental issue in the best interest to the city I would make the recommendation that if we do offer an extension we offer an extension with the express language the city will be soliciting and taking any backup offers I believe that is prudent in your interest at this time we've got to disclose the environmental issue but is somebody going to have the same issue that's what I don't know and I don't know what the person want to buy now I will say this too do I think that's ever going to be residential I do not but I can tell you the live loqua would allow it to be I can tell you there are certain state state prented bands that could allow that to be developed as residential property even though it's not zoned and we have no say over that so who can do that the State of Florida Lio quack for instance the state has certain preemptive language that allows certain zoning districts to be used for certain affordable Workforce housing projects to be residential and commercial or industrial areas that property right there under state law could be reson and we would have have no say we just have to say sure go ahead Max density that would definitely be concern and I'm not saying that's what CCB is trying to do but that property is not does not always have to be commercial and so that's where I think we may find ourselves needing to be a little more cautious about this but I it's to the council's discretion this the bank I think has tried to negotiate in good faith I've been on the other side of these I preach Prudence with environmental issues but what I've ultimately told clients is it's a risk transfer discussion what is your risk transfer premium in this how much are you willing to ask the other guy to discount it to take the risk you can do what you want to me there the risk transfer premium they're not looking at one they're asking us to absorb all the risk do we have PL know what the environmental concern is the the initial the bank did an initial environmental assessment one that identified something I I'll have to go back and look at it and read it and see what it is whatever it was there was enough of it or was a certain substance that triggered a second phase of that environmental assessment so the bank had their company go out and do that at that time they completed it they provided it um to us we sent the form in to D we are owners of the property and that's when the state came back and said there was not enough information in the reports provided for them to make determination on what or if there was to be done and so as Mr said him and I that meant it was that problem was resolved in the city's eyes you didn't find enough to do it it was resolved but the bank that that's not what the bank is looking for they're looking for more formal response from D that there is nothing there to mitigate so I I I attempted in between meetings this afternoon to read the environmental assessments that were sent out to the council and again I'm not reporting to have comprehended and read them 100% however um the what I what I was able to to glean from Reading those two reports is two things number one the the sampling that was done it was just over the edge on on most of the stuff it really came close again I don't look at these every day so maybe someone else looks at them and goes oh no that's that's a horrible number but when I was at it you're talking about 05 versus 06 so you're talking about in the thousands right of of decimal places number two um I I pulled up this map that's included in in the I believe this is the phase two yes this the phase two and this map that's included in the phase two the the containers that are identified that that it's referenced in the phase one and the phase two they're all up here next to balwi they're not down here where they're going to be building so but is it is it on the property that they're wanting to sell the piece that they're wanting to sell they're up on the well it's basically up on the hill on the 331 side or on this side on the Bal side is where they were so I again I'm not the expert in this but I I don't see why this is a big issue because again all of that is it's technically Upland right and and I understand obviously stuff flows down so it could but again I I just I don't see where the the issue is because all the testing whenever they tested most of the samples um and they I forget the term that they used but they did something to the samples to kind of standardize them and when they standardized the sample it actually came in below the actual required reporting level so uh I think all but in one one or two tests all one one all but one okay thank you so you know I I'm I'm very torn this is the first true legitimate offer that we've had you know that that's actually gotten this far in a in a very long time um but you know I'm not I'm not prepared to just sign the city up for just an unlimited budget cleanup either um I think there there are there is other interests in the property so you know not exactly sure what we do from here the concern is we just can't go in blind and be on the hook for the cost regardless of whether we want to do it or not so um you know I would I would recommend with the extension so that we can pursue our our line of reasoning with fdp and figure out exactly what's going to be required so that we actually can make an informed decision because right now we'd just be agreeing to clean up someone else's site at whatever cost it might be I mean it's just an open checkbook I mean can't do that right are we are we going to get though with with the phas because it was I thought it was interesting that the phase one almost seemed a little more detailed than the phase two it was like phase two they just did a little more research now technically yes they did they did do the well samples for samples it's the sampling samping is the only difference it's the samp right so so it really wasn't that much more that they did yes paying someone to go out here and Sample is in expense and part of it but are we going to I guess what I'm getting at is are we going to truly get resolution in a reasonable amount of time from D to complete this transaction or is this going to drag out for another six months because we're waiting on DP to to say yes or no I would suggest this if the council were to Grant a 30-day extension allow us to send back our version of an deification agreement that we might be able to live with that's going to be much much sharper than even what I discussed here tonight they want to agree to something is much much more limited then perhaps we have something we can talk about in November um at your November meeting if we don't we don't and then we can reach out to D and get any kind of guidance the answer is we probably will not in 30 days have a direct answer from De but I can say this I do think D will talk to us as the owner of the site about what they would require of us to get this done they list 10 things it's going to take a long time to say hey we need you do one thing okay fair enough and that's the kind of answer that we need I mean by all accounts it appears that a to the parcel to the South was uh at one point in time a filling station and that is probably the spill issue that is the biggest concern now we can't ever take into account any of the logs and the treatment that was on the logs the old site that we were on Now that may have migrated down that's possibly some of the lead some of that that's not in really aggressive levels but they're finding but it appears to be all still based on the parcel that is above cityall so I think one thir AC there we don't and that's where it looks like may have come that used to be Standard Oil drop we had pure oil right down the highway we had Standard Oil right up there on that little onard acre we had texo out there close to Public Works and those you used to be drop offs from the tracks and uh and they had real short everybody had real short trucks they were all short deliveries and that's what was up there it was a little standard old I was holding up to drive going by there so I know I know it's all on us but but it a little bsy thing you know and I don't know that's probably where they pick something up there on top if Council wanted to do that that would be the most I think I could recomend you doing I would not give it an extension based on dp's time frame because who knows how long that is but I would condition the extension on letting them know the city will be soliciting backup offers at this point in time and that would allow the mayor to reach out to that prior person so clay hypothetically as we've talked about this hypothetically could it be something as simple as D saying you know we're going to you need to place a restriction that there never be any residential development in other words if if D does that we put that in the deed as a deed restriction does that is that a possible path here I don't believe so I think if D was going to do that they'd place an environmental lean on the site okay and that talk about what remediation is our question is is there going to be remediation required you know of course make sure everybody realiz that 2013 they were talking 2.4 million company they offered 2.1 million just for the half where the annex is or you know the corner lot they offered us 2.1 million for that they didn't really care about the obsid all and while that was in process we had a company that came in from Atlanta that offered us $3 million this property and we went through the process for quite some time their Engineers kind of showed up at the last minute they said the topography was too bad behind the old city hall and then this first company comes back and offers 2.45 2,450 and uh of course the company they were representing went through some horrible publicity where they were having fires in St Louis Missouri and all that and it was probably a very matter of fact the the southeastern region unanimously voted to make the sale or to make the purchase and then they went to their National Bo and by that time all these horrible fires were taking place on TV every night St Louis Missouri and other places uh their store was just burning up anyway then they they turned it down and so it just you know of course uh tried to deal with the the month that offera 3 million and the council they didn't they did not just say no they said no the mayor cannot do any more I mean I I could not even solicit could not even go out and bargain anymore it it was unbelievable that was the case the reason I said all that is I know that money costs a lot more money right now than it did them so things are people are trying to buy things cheaper the people that offered us 2 point 45 are only offering us about 1.8 now so I understand it's harder to get that money but it's just hard to swallow going down anymore um the part I have trouble with if I read this agreement correctly clay they we're we would be accepting the liability for this even if they change if they sell this property down the road even if it's sold a second time by it effectively covenants to run with the land which means cority so I just don't see how we can do that I mean forever no I I I again this agreement should not even be a discussion to vote in our favor I cannot recommend it clay would it would it make things easier on us as a city if we carved out this this section this little square when I'm looking at this map uh of the Southside where where the the American Oil Company was originally and then we just worried was maybe trying to sell that later or not even ours I believe where it was is not our property yeah but it it shows it right but that's not our piece where that was located is not that's the third acre of the mayor is talking about that we don't own up the hill then why is then why is that in scope here I'm I'm confused because that's where they believe the contamination because it was part of the same subject parcel at one point in time in the parent parcel history they believe that may have been where the contamination originated from but even if you cut it out that doesn't necessarily help you okay but yeah I mean that's my question is could could we redraw this in such a way that that simplifies this from an environmental perspective sh should we look at um cut to splitting this lot up at this point now that we're hearing from at least two different people now that one's only interested in one piece of this property begin with and they're going to sell out the other piece would it be more advantageous for I think that's kind of what I'm what I'm thinking is you you redraw it just sell off the corner piece that everyone's interested in then we don't have to deal with the whole environmental thing we had a couple coun I still think you're have an environmental flag it's already flag yeah it's already flagged now yeah but it's ours to keep to not have to do not have no no I'm saying the corner is going to be flagged as well so we're GNA have we're going to deal with this with the corner now too say that again the corner is all one parcel ID the whole parcel is one parcel ID and so the whole site has been flaged it's effectively painted the whole so you're saying that even if we sold it to the B if we split it sold it to the bank we'd still have to worry about whether they we could ask the bank hey what would you pay us for the corner we'll sell you the corner for this as is no questions asked and you deal with it we'll keep the rest we don't mitigate that piece when we sell it to you yep well no it's just as is you're taking it at all the risk I think that's what I'm hearing my fellow council members request we can go back to them and ask them if they' want to do that yeah I think at the end of day we're still well I would still not feel comfortable with anything except going back to DP and trying to figure out a solution for us I think we offered negotiations on the other segments of the paral as a as a continuing uh discussion I agree I think the mitigation is going to line liow on us either way it goes at this point if there ever is yeah it's been there for 80 years now nobody said a word about it and Truth says it could be contaminated we could be contaminated from other sites Ian looks like this is from an offsite Ian but there's been a lot there there's been a lot on this whole property what do you recommend clay have you do I think well the first step is are y'all willing to continue in conversations under this contract with the bank if that answer is yes generally then 30 days extension notice them we intend to solicit backup offers and Tas Mr Townson and I with reworking this inity agreement and talking to them about the concept presented here tonight of just selling them the corner piece and what that looks like that gives us 30 days to bring it back to you by the which put us to December 5th um that being said if you don't want to keep dealing with the bank tell them we're done give them their tell them their earnest money are funded we'll just work on our site and we can solicit offers we want but that those are your two paths I I'd recommend keeping the bank under contract if you want to at least continue that discussion I think if you pull the plug with them now you're not going to have them back as a discussion but it doesn't but if you do what I'm suggesting we can go and solicit other offers you the bank says no we drive too hard of a bargain we see if somebody else wants it as ISE or wants the corner did you recall how much ear this money is yeah I don't off the top of my head but it's not like we're going to I mean at the end of the day if we can't provide them a clear title or clear site pre environmental we weren't counting on keeping that money anyway I make a motion we uh deal one time with the bank give them the extension to try to get us to get something that we can all be happy with otherwise we let them go and try to do and letting them know we will be sisting to backup offers during that window though correct so the May can reach you can word it for me I will so so basically Rafel put what I put down is the alternative of no negotiating with the bank what I would call option A in that second I have motion second we will also reach out I'll reach out to D to try to set up a meeting myself Mr ainson can't guarantee we'll get that in 30 days but we will try to see where something we can work on Y and then I had already intended um bank has uh reached out to ask me they gave me an opportunity to come speak to the board I was plan on doing that on Wednesday on my way out of town I will stop at the board meeting and talk just about City General and an update on this as well so it's okay re I will update them or we be asking C Takes a Minute any comments from allor say I I I I I I I car thank you thank you very much um you got anything just cple mayor and I'll be quick um so uh Council knows that last uh last fiscal year um we did apply for the mcop grant through the for Department of Transportation for twinlakes Drive um I'm glad to say we did get awarded that and so we will be repaving um Twin Lake Drive that money between now and J July 1st of 2025 we be working with a department to get a contract together and then we should be able to begin we're looking into the option if we can start design early or not we'll see what the state says but but the Grant from the state was $625,000 and the city had a massive $156,000 so that's great news care of that one uh the lights at I 1083 the council asked for an update on want to come in we spoke to the contractor um the lights are going to be one of the last things that go in and it 10 so that will be summer to fall of 2025 I um on 83 that was not within the scope of the the contractor for this project but the lights are in design of the state right now and it is in anticipation was for construction to be done in summer to fall of 20125 given funding from the state so it is in design we have to see if they actually funded or not what about the turn we did not did not get up on turn well Tim property just a quick update we had the survey last week so we'll wait to get that survey back from the company and when they do go Mr ainson we will work with the property owner there on an agreement and we'll bring that before the council once we've come to that agreement of course you have to approve it update on the airport property we did close on that five acres this morning so that is done the deed has been recorded and the city now owns those five acres and then my last update um Florida government City week Florida city government week went really well and Friday we had a great turnout at the cemetery if you went there if you didn't please come next year but I want to thank there was well over 50 people prob close it was awesome so it was really good so do that that it all right thank you very much okay well yeah the cemetery tour was excellent Chris Mitchell is he just does a great job with that he's he's in character you know um just a wonderful job but um I think he he's he posted I think there close to 100 people there probably it was a great crowd good job yeah thank you mayor uh we have a great visit on Friday from uh uh us do uh Federal do about the reconnecting communities Grant so we were able to walk them and show them the uh the city and show them the areas of impact um so that was great progress on there moving forward and then uh also um excited today they had a ss4a safe streets for all Workshop uh they held it Brotherhood that one is the same process that the city will be going through in the near future with the the grant that we received for that same purpose and um if you want to see some of the results of those you can you can see those uh at the um ecrc website I believe uh but the county I don't know if the county received their uh Grant or not they may or may not have uh but ours I'm hoping we'll be able to start pretty soon on that and that that's where we'll get our local projects identified that are of concern to the residents and that'll be a great opportunity for folks actually identify uh projects for for Road improvements repairs that that we'll be doing as well but we have to have that plan in order to be able to actually get funding for the individual project so it's a big it's a big step and it'll open up some additional funding opportunities in the future it's a good thing yes sir um first off uh when when someone's doing a good job and you have people in the public stop you and tell you about how they're doing a good job I think that speaks volumes and uh I want to Echo uh the other comments that have been made about the cemetery tour so I went into last stop to participate in trivia and I had two separate people stop me and tell me about the fantastic job that Chris is doing uh with the Cemetery tours so want to give him public uh kudos for his his great job you know that that also we're at the end of the month which means beginning in November we will have our uh code use code review and land use committee me um it's always dry but I encourage the public to come out and and participate in that please you know we're at the end of the day we're covering very important topics you know that that cover the function of the city just like tonight we did the second adoption of the water of of the animal and foul ordinance that came out of uh that committee so I just want to encourage the public to please attend that and provide your your participation in that that's all I have thank you Mr Mayor there's a lot but I I'm I'm not going to hit it off tonight was very productive tonight there was a lot of things that got done that near and dear to all of our hearts and it's good things that occurred from the library to um everything Chris I'm stuck on Chris now because you kept bragging on him there but also everybody else that help that Happ and liy partners all the city staff that helped him put that together and naturally Chris is just a genius when it comes to the cemetery that's his Forte he loves the history he knows everything about it he makes it fun um he did an excellent job uh with the library my kids play chess there and seeing some of the the things just when Mr Hamley had me go out there he he open me up to a lot more than just the library looking around at different things that are at the lake that have been there for years and I've just never seen it I grew up around that lake so I've walked I've walked every inch of it how I miss some of the stuff I don't know but um we got a lot of good things done tonight I'm very happy very happy thank youall very much and I I just want to thank everybody staff and counsel to in this uh city government week you guys been making the rounds touching a lot of people a lot young and old so thank you so much for loving your city and uh showing it off be sure told me to tell all of our departments that that EX some job all right well we'll call this meeting adour [Music] --------- ##VIDEO ID:-aJu-4ZIHc0## so Sunday I got a call say that they had no internet remote in with thep the headphones they had connectivity to all the they had connectivity to all the access controls I'm like this doesn't sound right so I can remote into my VM because that I Mac until it comes time to deal with active directory and is he I saw him last night he was start he comes in if you to valy are you ready sir yes Mr Harrison how are you sir are they ready in the back Jesse we good to go back there good thank you guys ready sir all right we will call this city council Workshop to order today is Monday October 28th it is 4 pm and we will go to agenda item number two which is road paving discussion it should be exhilarated I say we pck Twin Lake St I think we've already got that on the in the hopper we're good KOB you want to maybe yeah we can so we we talked about um before the new fiscal year how the C goes about Paving streets how you want to look at the future of um future of going about doing that um I think there's some it's some discussions with councilman Valley about a broader policy that does that discuss counc beer bomb um so really I guess it depends on how we want to how we want to do it we you know start out with how do we figure out which roads are the worst which ones need the most attention um that could be through like Mr now had said doing you know tests of every single Road I that's a lot and it probably could get expensive but that's just part of it I mean not not having this data already as doing those coure tests on specific ones or all of them and then designating them to a certain Legend worse worse or better um or I know that barge engineering and this isn't about the one engineer I just know this the county went through if I'm not mistaken they had hired that company to come through and do a tire and assessment of all the county roads and I believe they have some sort of vehicle that goes and scans them and they'll tell you you know the thickness and the base and all that type of stuff so there there's two options going about it I think in the past the city has been cworks director and transportation have went and rode the roads themselves had have some sort of criteria they Mark the criteria and rank them accordingly and that's how we laid out what's the worst but that's great but if twinlakes drive for example is the worst Road on there and that's almost a million doll project what's the odds of us paying that on our own in just any given year it's going to be low rather than small size Street or small Street in historic district that might cost2 $300,000 to do so the priority of them could be a little different so I think the first step is probably how we want to go about determining which roads have the most need and how we're going to test them each the cost I do not know the cost of bringing the vehicle in and doing the entire assessment but when you know Mr talked about doing the plugs those are 30 to 25 $30 per plug and each road is gonna need multiple we have a lot of Roads so how does how do they determine density is it through like um Sona or Radar Radar or something they can they also have to use that for locating utilities Council woman I'm curious how uh the county study that they did how how many roads do we share that we could kind of look at what they've got before we even maybe go forward correct so I didn't have time before this to get with them but I will be getting with County engineering and see if they've gotten it back yet know they did a few months back I'm not sure if they've completed it but we'll see if there's any overlap they did all Street we do share quite a few roads if I'm not mistaken yeah so we will look into that as well but if they don't then we figure out our way and the next step after that is determine from this day forward are we always going to hire contractor to PVE the roads the city going to do are we going to invest Capital to buy that equipment those are the typ go beyond but I will reach out to the county and see if there's overlap what they've already paid for yes sir so K how um how effective do you feel the prior strategy has been do you think that we are keeping up um I mean obviously we're not but yeah do you feel like the rankings are appropriate but the funding is not accurate or do you think that the rankings are themselves also flaw what do you is your assessment of the overall situation we could we could again we could go in and we could I could reach out to other entities and we could recreate the criteria that they do inhouse and we can make that our new criteria and do that but no one here is professional in terms of road paving or an engineer um their their ranking sheet you know was every street in city but I think the biggest is just the implementation of that again if the first road is is a large road we can't afford it I think in the past we've come to a stop we just assume that's number one and we don't do anything till we pave number one and it just doesn't work that way we can't do that anymore do we have the list currently uh it's not we do have one I to get with Transportation but it's two or three years old now so couple of thoughts um it's Kobe kind of politely put it there's been some previous attempts at this um and being here for 5 years I'm pretty aware of of the recent ones uh I'm a little um frustrated with the previous efforts and um excited to move ahead with this project I think what I would like to see us do as a council is come up with that strategy in other words my mind is uh we either decide we're going to rate them ourselves or we're going to pay a company we're going to do some hybrid of the both okay um and then on top of that we're then going to give direction to staff to say if the project is going to be deemed over a certain dollar amount we move it to the CIP we work it on the CIP as a council the way we work all of our other uh requests you know that that we we know we're going to be receiving some grant funding for the mcot is it mcot yes so are we continually having those in the hopper right um and then on top of that you know if if it's on the CIP because it's a larger project as an example twinlake Drive are we then turning around and telling uh Liberty Partners you know this is on our list it may not necessarily be the number one item on our list but if you see an opportunity for the city let's go forward so I I would really like to see us maybe H hammer out some sort of clear strategy that we can give to the staff I'll be honest with you some of my concern that I brought up to in the past to Kobe is we we drive over these roads we do the drive test the problem is we don't know what's underneath that road we don't know if it's single layer of asphalt if it's 12 inches of base if it's three inches of Base we don't know we might have some historical knowledge here and there but it's not extensive um it certainly is going to be interesting to find out from the county how much they received um you I think this is going to be one of those things that maybe we even look at what do we have right what information do we have right now can we get us a list that would at least get us going for maybe the next year or two years and from there we then seek money to do some sort of exhaustive assessment of all of our roads that can then be used for the next 10 or 20 years to direct some sort of Paving plan if I've mentioned it once councilman valy I know you've heard me numerous times mention a ping plan I think this all needs to tie back into some sort a comprehensive Paving plan that we we do thaty been doing that all dayer we do it with with with data and we make some of these decisions not based off of you know oh so and so lives down there or you know whatever the case may be we do this Based on data based on need and let's we've even had that I'm sorry to kind of dominate the conversation but we've even had that conversation in the past what is going to be our criteria for for determining this is are we going to look at number of households impacted are we going to look at just purely uh the this Road's horrible and it's falling apart because what may happen if we do that is it we might P we might pave some random roads somewhere that we're like why are we paving this one random road over here when it only serves two houses or five houses when we need to be focused on something similar to Twin Lake Drive or 20th Street or whatever so I throw all that out there because I'm hoping we kind of prompt some conversation I've seen this heav and H of hand at first just and there are other things like you said that are going to impact our decisions because for example Twin Lake drives I know of five households that are concerned about the sewer and whether they're hooked up or not hooked up and I don't want to see us spending a million dollars on Paving that road and we didn't address the underlying issue and we're gonna have to tear that road up again that that's an irritant to me it's like you know we've got to consider these things so to me it's almost like a case by case basis we could have a guideline that we outline to say this will be nice but we've got to investigate all these pieces and parts the households the the underlying infrastructure that might be under those roads because I don't want to see us spending all this great money doing these great things and then 10 days later oh we're gonna tear up that brand new road now so we can put in the infrastructure for to get this guy's house connected to the so whatever we do let's please please try to put all these things into the policy as we or guidelines that we develop because I'll never forget they paved South Second Street this is when I was younger I was maybe middle school and I remember them Paving South Second Street thinking wow because it used to be rough especially when you went down that dip and you came to Bruce right there it used to be pretty rough and it wasn't it wasn't six months later the city had to come through there and cut up a section of that road to fix something underneath I don't know if it was a sewer or what it was the station at the top right there by Hill Street yeah failed yeah and they had to cut it up back it up it's like and yeah that is such a and then that that piece of payment's never been the same since so counc Harrison yeah we we we can pay for the finest kind of Assessments core samples whatever radar Z are whatever they use and and have that Citywide but you know you you kind of hit it on the head there's always going to be variables uh sewer you know tap ends and that kind of thing could affect so we ought to be able to come up with some formula down down the road at some point to factor in variables to to score uh each of these potential streets uh for example uh Twin Lake Drive is is a great example people have been complaining about it being a rough road for for a long time well now what does all Estates add to that with the with the increased traffic they're going to see on that street you know so that is a fact to me that pushes that one up the up the priority level you know to be ready and anticipate additional 150 homes right at the end of twin L drive so we can we can we can add things into our considerations for uh which streets we P paid based on all these things absolutely Council skyers um one thing I asked a while back and and some of the guys showed me when we were talking about Wastewater uh issues was the diamond maps and how they had all the utilities kind of mapped out for throughout the city uh I'd like to see if we could get access to that different times it just helps giv us background information on different agendas but I was curious about the development of ai ai or automation either way you want to term it how however we could do it but to come up with um what shape the pipes are in the ground on specific roads or specific routs and what utilities actually do live within there and where they fit on our plan as far as uh replacing the the different pipe without and and roadways and then let it develop some type of formula to where it could actually automate that process for us and tell us hey based on your criteria as far as this road needs to be uh uh maintained or or resurfaced or or replaced within the next 10 years I'll get this a score of X and based on the fact that these pipes are have the best designed pipes then we need to I would give this a rating of 80 so therefore add the 80 and the the road scores together and then let it develop a criteria for us because that technology actually exists it's pretty cheap depending on how where we get it from and what we do with it what we give it access to but I think that that would be would offer great Insight so just to summarize I'm hearing I'm hearing Road some sort of Road grading and and study I'm hearing uh future development concerns I'm hearing underlying infrastructure concerns that all kind of need to be tied into this assessment councilman Valley yeah so I was just trying to get to where we can kind of separate some of these things so right now what I'm seeing is two two lists each of those have two categories you've got a uh a project list which is of two categories uh which has an in-house assessment and then a potential later of a future paid assessment we might get some of that from the account and in terms of the work plan itself we have one that's in-house as well in-house Paving and repairs and then we have CIP projects that are too expensive to fund I then we can take the two the two pay the two that we're not doing and kind of set those aside until we get the county data and then we can have a conversation separately about how we want to fund both but also how we want to from the assessment because we need to get some proposals and we can probably use our inhouse for at least pricing exercise in terms of how much that would cost but what I'd like I think we could focus on today is the actual in-house scoring criteria and so really all we should be to talk about I think is the scoring criteria so we can do the in-house assessment and then based on that we can do the in-house work out of the projects that are the affordable ones the ones we can do we have the infrastructure component in terms of INR infrastructure that means replacing we know that and we have the diamond I have both these and the roads um one question is in terms of scoring criteria I would look also at the dates when roads were updated last updated we should be able to piece together a date of some of these but number one do we have a list of every road and how many miles we have them Diamond Maps is going to have that but it'd be nice to do a report of that and then assign dates and we can do a heat map based on that um and then um additional scoring criteria like number of residents you know things like that um this is just a question when Mr SC brought up the diamond M the last time I was on there it did not have uh all the infrastructure already on there so if we are giving access to that or if we're printing something we need to know what's missing because I can't recall what it was but it was with the lift stations that I was looking at and they were not all mapped on there uh just FYI so I wanted want us to be careful because if there is data missing how can we get it up to speed with what we do have right now yeah for us one thing we need to be very aware of is that a lot of that stuff too as we're going through it outside of here or a meeting all together some of that's critical infrastructure too and and not some much subject of Boyer out there in the open so we need to be a little bit careful about what we release once we're we you're trusting to that too so while we're on the the topic of diamond Maps um Kobe's probably gonna want to strangle me for making these comments but um the previous Council was Clay correct me if I'm wrong here expressed a a pretty explicit desire to not use Diamond Maps but to instead use arcgis because the county was willing to help us with those licenses they have the way they buy their site licenses um they they can help us with that and then on top of that there's already a mountain of data that's already in argis and and so I've I want to be on the record today as saying I don't think we should be putting time and effort into Diamond Maps I think we should get the data out of diamond Maps we should standardize on arcgis that's the industry standard and we we need to move forward that to be very Frank and blunt the previous Public Works director and the previous city manager basically ignored the express wishes of this Council we had an extensive conversation about Diamond maps in which the council agreed not to use it yes sir just because of my dayto dat I I would agree with you there it was just one of the things my thoughts on diamond was the fact that it was here and that accessible used being used by the city but I completely agree County's already got the um the licensing for that to where it'd be much cheaper on us and them not to mention the collaboration with the data and and like you said the pleora of data they already have in there Council I'm okay with to me my thing isn't just Diamond that mine is garbage in garbage out here's my whole thought process was whatever it was that I was trying to extract I was going to make the the wrong decision because I was getting the wrong data luckily in my head I had already had previous knowledge to know that something should have been there that wasn't there so I was able to not make my decision and that I'm G to you know defer to your all's expertise if the county has something that we can use that's already I don't have a problem with that to me it's not about that it's about garbage in garbage out if we if we're missing good data then we're going to make make wrong decisions if we don't have that so I think this takes us back to an important step who's doing the assessment in house you talking about who did it or who would be who is or who can who's going to be able to actually one the knowled well there's two parts of knowledge one there's the ability to assess and then there's ability to input data um and I don't expect us to go into software I expect us to receive reports so I mean yes I have times I want to but not I'm not going to do it for everything um so do we have anyone that's qualified to do that I I can tell what that means um then so what we need to do is start we need to get that position taken care of and I would suggest that position probably goes back to some of the original recommendations that were made from from prior counsil is that we need a professional engineer on staff or someone with not a license necessarily but someone with engineering experience was what was the recommendation was the prior counsil for the position so one point and and this is when it came up this is when the whole rgis conversation came up there there was a position that opened up within the city that was that had a title equivalent to GIS mapping something or another do you remember clay do you remember what that was by chance yeah it got shifted around at one point it went out of the cemetery it was attached out there but yes I call the title that's where it went uh okay all right so that answers my question of where did that position go and is it still open I assume not but anyway that's just for a little bit of background information that's when that's when it all came up because we had a GIS specific position open several years ago it's been a while he been out there a went to a cemetery well there was a concern at one point because the concern was that we're were going to bring in someone that exceeded the qualifications of director and so that did not can we just do a temporary uh well that would be we could do that evaluate until we evaluate exactly what we could do that with our inhouse or we could do that with a consultant or do an RFP specifically tached with this um we could I would actually make a second suggestion based on something we already got coming that's a ss4a but the ss4a what you're going to have is a lot of public workshops comment periods where the public is going to tell you about safety concerns on roads when they start telling you about the safety concerns they're going to be telling you about the conditions of of the roads whether it be stop signs that are messed up in the wrong spot lighting that's damaged in the wrong spot curving that's damaged in the wrong spot roads that are damaged and causing issues and safety concerns that ss4a which Denise is very familiar with and probably be helping us coordinate uh is going to be a great tool to go ahead and begin this assessment and that's going to be a paid paid job someone else is going to be assembling this so again this is a good opportunity for some overlap and some uh Synergy let's have some Synergy about that I think a GIS position would be great for City just the the collaboration between City and the county in those positions because Kevin and and the guys and ladies that are over there at GIS they do a phenomenal job they love GIS they love mapping they're all about trying to help you get the data that you want some of the stuff I was talking about with AI and automation that's a little bit beyond what would be initially there but make no mistake about it once we get the data and it's good data that's the stuff that we can do with it help us evaluate counc Harrison were we using that to to County were we using that for the tree inventory at one time seems like I remember Andrea said she could access it could be I would have to I'd have to find out to be sure I know they put that in down Maps or they done that RG prior to me being here I don't the only person I know has had access and used rgis as I've been here and currently does is Chris Mitch Cemetery okay and he has been using the County's system it's the only person the only department has used RG every other department on D maps and has been for since since what you're talking about which was early 2022 and I remember the conversation because it was with Florida Florida R water we were doing all kinds of other stuff assessments and things and that's what they implemented it to so that's the only person I know of the city that does rdis well just just for a little bit of additional background as to how this thing ended up at the cemetery part of the reason not all but part of the reason was that the previous city clerk was managing all of the plots for the cemetery she had a direct tie to the County GIS department and so she worked in art GIS and was very proficient in art GIS so she had put all the plots from my understanding from what I was told she had put all the plots into argis and that's why Chris continues to Ed to say because that's effectively the database that's a very fair recitation well on these assessments like you're trying to you know hash out here the safety concerns you know of course whoever ends up doing our assessments whether it's a consultant or somebody in in house that should be a factor um the the road conditions of course the for example do redoing a short Street say a quarter mile section or 400 yards or whatever um that needs a subbase built that wasn't done properly in the first place that could be as expensive to do that short section as 3/4 of a mile of just resurfacing you see so there has to be some sort of um rating scale that considers all those factors and in the end all those numbers come together we go here's a project you know and the big ones go on CIP like you said yeah I I would like to see us do something I hate to say it this way because when I've had members or leadership above me say this before it it literally sent me into convulsions but I I want to see us do something instead of nothing um but at the same time I don't want to force staff en Force the the situation at hand so that we end up to councilwoman Heaven's Point garbage in garbage out right think there's got to be a balance we need to do something we're always talking about this so let's not talk let's enable our wonderful staff to actually let's give them the tools whatever it is that they need to to bring this back to us if they say hey we need funding if we need a position or we just need time to talk the Consultants you know let's let's kind of give them some of that direction Council valelly so how about um if we just maybe drill down on let's just kind of up these pieces let try P one down so the gis position what I what I would ask is that K bring back a recommendation as to the skills required for that GIS position if it's only a GIS position we do have a lot that needs to be put in properly and and fully so we can utilize it if we had a if we had a true Road inventory with the linear footages the width of of the road section whether or not it was stried and and a lot of other print where has Cur things like that a lot of detail you can actually price that you'd have price per mile every time you look at it you just do a price per mile and instantly you've got it and you can just plug in whether you're just resurfacing or repairing or replacing curving I mean that's that's what do has so that's that's one thing but again I think we're missing that I mean we talked about Public Works director so maybe it's that has to do both and maybe they provide training to a secondary member that can do the inputting of data in the future I mean like Mr Wallace does GIS Mr Wallace can put in JS all day he's our plan we're not going to have him doing that for everything there are things he should but not for everything um same way Public Works had Andre who was doing Diamond Maps she preferred the diamond Maps but we really need to be in art GIS I agree with that um but she put in sidewalks put in lighting locations hydrant locations so those are good things but we need to take it to the next level she's she wasn't um trained to put together the details of it but she can input it if we have you know planning director has experience in GIS and he can provide Direction and support to someone in his department or a third position uh and we have a public works director that can do the same thing with that third position now we're starting to put together a team that can fill in gaps for each other and then start training even other people and how do that I think they can do is rgis is they can develop apps where your your folks can go out to the field and have an app on their phone and you just basically get a checklist of items that could be damaged repared or you know from a pull down menu what it needs to be done what the problem is it would be a real-time assessment that's ongoing that was starting to happen but you know needs to continue but that takes more than just one person that knows how to use G and has to be committed to it I I want to add to that that I would like for staff to bring back some uh data conversion cost options for for uh Diamond Maps because part of the conversation from 2022 when when we had that whole debate about Diamond maps versus rgis it was made clear at that time that there is limited interoperability between the two the two applications because they are both GIS applications but I do want to see some sort of uh cost estimate for exporting everything out of Diamond maps and converting over into rgis and that may be something that we just have to say we're going to get to it next year yes sir I think that would just be part of that position and that normal process so what you do is you export the shape files it's got almost all the data you might have to do a little bit of relinking to different categories but it's not it's the same basic Prem it's the premise of the software is the same yeah and it works with the same exports it's just not you can't just open a diamond Mouse file in it you have to export the shap files repport it make sure everything's matching up but that's going to be the physical process no matter why I think we just do that as part of the ongoing process so you're saying handle that that portion of it in house versus paying for data conversion yeah because we don't really have anything that's fully developed to the point that's worth that kind of expenditure okay it's not that sophisticated how it is I don't believe now get in there and tell me if I'm wrong I don't think there's anything in there that's that no um my first initial thought is to add this component to the other thing that I'm working on that we' all talked about um because my concern is initially my initial concern is if we get an estimate let's say the estimate is reasonable and we want to buy to put it in my concern is I have nobody on staff who can immediately assess it so we put the data over and not assess it but can't use the system I've got to train let's take let's just take utilties for example they all use D maps at this moment that's how they input new lines that's how they they Mark brakes it's how all that stuff right if I if I convert it over and they're not trained on it then that process is dead until they're all trained on rgis they could take a month they could take three months you I don't know the capacity of that so that that's my only hesitation right now with that is we may then go three or four or five months without putting in information and get lost or anything of that nature I don't think that anybody wants to see the proverbial rug pulled out from underneath staff in terms of tomorrow you're going to use rgis and you know goodbye to Diamond Maps I think this is more of you we're looking to you to come up with a plan to how how we're going to migrate over um and standardize on because to a certain extent as as this discussion is kind of borne out we do have some actual inhouse experience with art GIS right so we we have experience with Chris both Chris's basically Wallace and um forgive me Mitchell um that have art GIS experience so while we don't expect uh Mr Wallace as a director to you know be putting that stuff in every single day he could certainly have some some bandwidth to maybe train train some people and get some people up to speed but I I do understand and I don't don't mean to imply that we're GNA just you know tomorrow it's it's all rgis good luck everyone I don't think that's that's the implication yes sir I would expect you to have that that position yeah or at least Core group of primary users that can provide support to those anytime we change software or anytime you even just bringing someone new and to teach them things that they have to do the course is never covered it's always just being able to look hey how do how do I how do it changes to a different type you know you always have to have someone nearby to to provide it in house support okay this something like can definitely look at put something together with with other stuff as we do it all at one time most effective the thing kind of go back a little bit to let just the streets in general we we've talked about a complete streets policy and it kind of seems about where we're going with you know the policy to determine what when a road get repaved what's the priority of that road I think some we've talked about is you know does the road need sidewalk does the road need lighting is it is it just straight Paving or what are the other factors you can take consideration I plan maybe what we need to do is develop a policy which is essentially just a scope scope of work for every single Road job so yes so I think that should be part of the plan Department's interaction with public works and that's where we need to bring them a little bit more together um Mr Wallace should be part of that road assessment so there are two assessments there's the road condition assessment for the physical Paving conditions and what's underneath it does it need to be replaced but there is that neighborhood scale Community aspect to it that Mr Wallace needs to be able to assess now once we have if we go and write a policy um which is clear then it gives him guidance right now what it really is is look to your left look to your right what's going on on the street is it a gap is it okay for now do we need to finish the other side of the street he can look at it that way for now but we we can do that as part of um The Safe Streets for all could set that as a priority for the future but um One Go goal would be to have that be part of the comp plan land use development code update is the street sections and Street types because it would identify all the street types in the city once you have a type you say what every road is as a type and it's either in a b or c like downtown is sidewalks with curving and drainage other areas are no curve but sidewalk you know so you have grass and it's that gray other are is Rural Road no sidewalk no lighting no nothing that's it it's really that simple you just be able to walk around and look at where you are and say okay this is going to be an a b or c I think you you touched on a good point there Council M Val and that is I see our job at a council level as writing the the policy but I want to I want to take it one step further let's not just write individual policies let's do this from the perspective of a strategic plan right as as a council member here I've heard us talk about master PL for our waste water I've heard us talk about master plans for our pable pable water I've heard us talk about master plans for streets but let's bring that all under one umbrella as a strategic plan and then let's identify gaps in policies that we need to to address and let's let's as a council come together and address those in a comprehensive manner because I to me that's that's our charge that's our mission right yes we have to approve bills once a month and and we have to do certain things mechanically but our charge is is to really look at that ultra high level and provide staff with a clear policy where they can make those decisions yes sir so one perfect example of that is we've got a Parks master plan that was done the connections between the different parks are actually identified as future desired trails that would be part of that sidewalk study lighting study that would be a street type that would be associated with it or at least it's a street type that would say hey we definitely have a sidewalk or a multimodal trail here and that starts to allue the budget in the future and look at these roads when you go to pave it's like hey are we going to go and do the sidewalk or not because that could turn into a CBG gr like one of these upcoming ones could be for Paving roads you know within any neighborhood so we need to have that um but again I think that the planing department needs to be a little bit more integrated in the process than they have pass because they have to be the ones that bring that Parks master plan and bring that downtown district plan and the Main Street plan all these plans together because it's planning so they're the ones that need to help public The Works understand hey what's the goal here let's not waste an opportunity we're already here we're going to invest in this let not let's not go halfway let's do this right yeah um just as a housekeeping uh discussion real quick so we have approximately 20 minutes left in the we also have a second agenda item here for code enforcement abatement do we want to kind of wrap up this discussion here does anybody else have anything we can move on to code Code Enforcement abatement and then we can maybe wrap up five minutes before the regular council meeting starts does that sound okay to everybody while I'm on housekeeping uh clay help me remember when we were doing these on a regular basis in the past we have a a very open agenda item that basically allowed us to have discussion about um agenda items that we're about to happen in the meeting subsequent to this Workshop what what is that wording that we can use as a as it like almost like a place going so we did that two different ways um the most for the majority of the time we did those meetings we actually had the agenda items listed and then it became well hey I want to talk about this agenda item two it wasn't listened so I went back and forth broadly what we would State our discussion of agenda items to come before city council and this agenda is a very broad placeholder and so we can certainly allow that to be the case if we want it and we can bring that language back if you ever want us to do that I know I'm kind of jumping around but I I was thinking about that today as I Was preparing for for this afternoon is that something that is the the wish of the up other council members that we have that item that would give us that flexibility that if there is something on the upcoming agenda you know that we we want to talk about it and kind of Workshop about it ahead of time we can can we not just add it on the fly like any additions and deletions or I think it has to be properly noticed he's referring to the workshop so what would happen is if you don't have something that puts the public on notice that you're going to talk about one of the regular agenda items at this Workshop you run the potential for somebody saying that was not properly noticed you're you're going to be able to cure it immediately thereafter because it is a Sunshine Law meeting we are doing everything in compliance the sunshine law but it's not going to say that now understanding we cannot do that for public hearings or things of that nature okay what what are your thoughts on that I like having the opportunity for General discussion we just don't get a chance of talking enough woman were your thoughts again it's just going to be generic language on the regular agenda the work the workshop to a talk about something that might come up at the regular meeting Oh you mean like one of these agenda yeah so here this meeting talking about an item that would be at the regular council meeting agenda immediately to follow already Workshop correct right the workshop would function as a way for us to be able to talk about anything that's on this agenda right here that we're about to talk about in 20 minutes but then we could Workshop it between four and five if we if it's a particular topic that we want to have be L we just have questions in advance so that we I'm okay with that I think that's great idea let's take for example the next Workshop agenda right now the only item we had was to talk about the CRA and potential change that so you would have number two CRA whatever and number three would be a generic item open discussion on regular agenda topics and it would always be there right it would always reoccur no matter Council I'm good with it because either way the notice is there we're not going to make a decision until it's the regular agenda either way and it's all being recorded as well so it's not like we're hiding anything or trying to not bear all right sounds good um do yes sir yeah Place said we're good with that I mean I think it would be beneficial to to be able to do that okay but I would say on on back to our our assessments and what have you you know there's a way to wait certain things and that's going to take some discussion at some point on assessing roads which ones need to be done what's the priority is it Safety First is it you know getting them built the way they should be if the subbase is not like it should be is it infrastructure that has to be done first so you know if we if we put in a percentage weight of each of these assessment categories then it all shakes out you know you might be you might be rating everything 1 to 10 whatever those factors are but one particular assessment Factor might weigh 20% you see where others might weigh differently then then you get a good objective path forward that we don't have to debate about sure it's the numbers are there Council woman did KOB say he was going to reach out and get some examples of how the other municipalities oh yeah might already have this in place that we can take what to is great I'm just there's some things like that I want to make sure that the council's open to doing those things before I start spending energy to do them yeah absolutely would you do me a favor and get the counties to I mean I can certainly reach out myself but better for for you to do it I'll give County engineering yeah I would like to see what theirs is uh because they've got to have some kind of ranking system in place already y AB do we want to obviously I know when we did when we did these regular workshops in the past sometimes it was always a struggle to the agenda grew and then all of a sudden it was a struggle to get all the topics covered in 50 minutes do we want to request that staff bring us something back at the next regular scheduled Workshop what what's the appetite of the council or not sooner I don't have a problem with it I think your next your next Workshop probably take the whole hour because it's about the C item discussion um but we'd have the information exactly and I have to I like to digest some things I can bring back information we've gathered provided to y'all and then it's not something it's going to be implemented then but it okay that' be great okay got that so are we good are we good to move on from Road discussion or is everybody I am all right so code enforcement abatement Kobe do you want to take yeah we just this is just a quick intro to talk about Chris St had to go somewhere clay might be able to speak on a little bit just an intro so uh is everyone familiar with the concept of abatement to going in to property addressing the violations we fix them and then do some so Bay County does this so we currently obviously we go in Chris finds a violation he notices that violation we go through that process eventually it goes to the magistrate she will order on it the order has to be met if it's not met then a lean is is given to the property and violations of crew um that's how we do it now but an abatement would allow us to go in do the same process when he get when they get to that first hearing it's my understanding from Chris and Miss Yule and what Bay County does is that we would then she could order the city to go in and aate the property so let's just say that the house is what I mean the paint's peeling off or the roof they got a hole in it um the city could go in fix that BL issue that violation that remediates it but then we we take that that violation and we give it to the taxx collector it goes on to the tax roll it goes in like you would a tax certificate or a tax deed um and so we're kind of just seeing the FI for this council do that of course that requires funds to do it um we got to be willing to go and do the work hire contractors and go through that process hang on one second clay do you want to add anything before I open up for discussion no because honestly y'all got decided this is what you want to do I mean you don't just go get to to bait a um house that has some paint peeling or that grass is too high necessarily um it's got to be a health and safety Factor there are certain things that have to be found to do it U it's not going to be a blanket situation where every single code case goes through a batement um but y'all need to talk about that first rather is this something you want to do and you want need to prioritize what we want to do doing these kind of pilot programs your best bet if you want to so but that's really more of a discussion y'all need to have in terms of is even something y'all want to engage in Valley so the reason that this one was interesting is that right now what we have is we have properties that are going into uh the lean and the penalty phase for years and years and years and years and years and we're trying to remediate light but we're not getting any relief we're accumulating finds but there's the blight it's still there and then we are forcing up position where we end up having to settle the debt later on because well they just ended up having to give it away and tear it down or whatever so we're never getting to the point that we're dealing with the problem it's just getting pushed further and further and further out with these you know imaginary finds that you know we can never collect because they there's so much more than the property or worth because we don't even begin our process until the property value is exceeded with the abatement process you're doing two things you can you can stop the fine process for these people so in some cases it actually become cheaper to them in the long run to actually have this evaded you know mitigated on the front end and two we're eliminating the hazard and the health issues that we're doing this whole thing to begin with so at some point just like with foreclosures that I think we need to get some done just like some of empty properties that need to go into probate which are part of that forclosure I'm going start bringing them for we to get those done I think we should have a serious discussion about whether we're serious about cleaning up stuff or not now one thing I would like to see is that the CRA can be part of that and some of these so clay can they can they depending on obviously depends on what we're talking about but if it is a health issue and a blight issue can the CRA use its funds for the batement and then be re uh uh uh reimbursed later on from uh from the sale of property eventually from the tax lean that would be the result of that Ty no okay well I mean that's okay I mean yeah the point of using that money is you're allocating that Tiff money specifically to the abatement of blight and what you're doing there is them paying the CRA back out of fine remittances that they have no entitlement to same way you can't borrow against the CRA for your own purposes yeah not the fine portion but the actual batement that's a part of the lean as well correct but what you're saying the CRA goes in there and abates it and then the city receives fine money that it then reimburses to the CRA you can't cross cingle those funds now but we have funds but we also have the actual cost of the abatement is a separate item but it's your money not theirs the actual cost of the abatement would be what the CRA paid not what you're assessing so what what what you're proposing if I understand Council Valley unfortunately is the city says we're going to go in there evade it CRA go do it and we're going to and we're going to pre-assess a expected cost of abatement it's your find right or wrong it's a fine I don't care what you want to call it it's a fine you're imposing and that's your money just because the CRA is doing it for you that would be like letting anybody else go and bait it the point is if you want to do it as a city council you can you can collect those monies but you don't get to crossco mingle the funds of the CRA in that sense so let me clarify so when when Bay County Coes in an abates they're not charging for the abatement work they're only doing fines there's no there's no portion of that which is the actual okay okay so now Bay County does Bay County approaches in three different ways so we need to get very detailed violence works one method is the code violation is f and is found to constitute health safety or public welfare Hazard which warrants a bait and that pointed time they go in and Abate it and then go back to the magistrate and ask for that amount to be added in in a secondary proceeding that happens that's the most akin to what you're talking about so before I go to the other two let's kind of stick with that one I think and that's what I'm looking at the P yes yes it's on top of your daily P okay because otherwise there's no emphasis for them to get to that point do you have some kind of measuring but for you to be able to go in there and do it and be able to claim reimbursement you have to satisfy the statutory fire s to address that how are they addressing that I'm not studied how Bay County is specifically addressing that I can tell you there's a statute that lays out I'm sure they're pretty close to it if they're doing it now some of these places have some another method that if at the outset there's determined that an immediate measure needs to be taken for abatement the magistrate can assess a penalty up to this amount and the government can go spend up to that amount and that's a pre-assessed fine that's actually been upheld but that's T amount to a fine is what I'm speaking I'm I'm less curious about the F again this is actually this Workshop a this is just education so we can get this information so got this part of that purpose councilman Harrison so so do we currently have a cap on violations how how high they can go stat yeah they stat well no no you no no they keep until pay it off so you have a dollar amount per day cap but that number can run straight on up yeah but that that total is what I'm what I'm talking about you know if the motivation is to end the blight get them to do something if we had a cap in place for the total and then at that point they know without a doubt that the city's going to begin a batement and do what it has to do that is does service motivation like Council Valley was talking about you know if some people just can't do it they're a situation where they can't do it too many people involved in a trust and own the property or whatever no agreement in the family those kind of things happen but you know we we can run fines up to $200,000 if we're not going to collect it it might as well be 10 it doesn't matter you know so if there's a cap at least it might serve as a motivation for the people to find a way to you know to to fix the place up themselves to take care of whatever the code violations are councilwoman heav I'm just m are just generic type things do we have a policy right now on any of this yes processes no I think she's asking for a bait well we have a nuisance batement ordinance we've talked about this in the code Lees Review Committee has buil the books for years now it's been very rarely applied but it exists so can we can we share that number one just for my own so when we do have this conversation in the future I can be more knowledgeable on it but I'm wondering what does B count have and can we can you share Bay all of bay County's policies with us so that we can if we do want to put something and then uh one of my other questions is are we talking Homestead Properties non-homestead or both we currently we will currently violate either one it could be the only distin main distinction is the fact that we cannot P clothes on Homestead of property well we choose not to choose not to but we do have violations on both Homestead and non-homestead properties okay so so does our policy CL clarify at what point we do a vement at what what what is the deciding factor when we decide to go I know in it does not the short answer that's one of the things we've talked about the code commit just be very simple we have a usance abatement ordinance that started going back all the way into 1986 it does specify procedures for abatement you can look at that it's under chapter 14 and we'll make sure everybody gets a copy of it it does establish methods and protocols to be used they are wholly inconsistent with our current code process and CRA process right does not mean they're unlawful but they're not consistent because of that no we do not have what I would call an automatic trigger well know we took into consideration um police costs to particular properties as as helping us decide which you know if there's a drug area or something like that you know and that might be waiting factor in deciding you know whether batement is is timely at that point but there should be some other factors maybe that maybe that dollar figure cap I I don't know but and you do have an abatement assessment cost in your existing ordinance it's just never been used since it was put into effect in 2015 it's been there this whole time which by the way is very similar to Bay counties C I'd be curious um any challenges that they had has been up over time yeah oh yeah this is this is a very wellestablished process councilwoman heav what is the benefit to the city when a person cannot pay and it has to go then to the tax collector and just sits on that property until three years from now five years from now 10 years from now when the property changes hands what what is our real benefit for addressing this well for the fine for the lean is that what you're asking about first off well like if they couldn't pay and let's just say all it does is so so there so there are two things certificate there are two things you got to understand so you get a tax certificate that's just on abor taxes amazingly all these places they pay their taxes very few of these get wiped out on thator tax certificate sale you very few go to certificate and fewer go to tax de that being said the benefit in the city is a lot of times somebody will come in and they'll get a buy and they'll come to the city because when they're going through closing they find that lean and they say this got to be satisfied the person wants it so they call the person well did you know the person selling I has I had no idea didn't know there was a lean on it and so they come to us and say look what do we need to do to satisfy the lean typically that new person is more than willing to go in and clean the property up at their cost and pay us a portion of the lean to get it released that's the first level of value but I do want to make clear all code leads in Flor by State Statute apply to all real property in that person's name so if you have one house that's blighted and you have 10 other pieces of property that lean attaches to every piece of property that person owns so sometimes it'll prevents what Florida when they did there's a anti-s slum provision it prevents somebody from letting a few pieces of property from being delighted in having a nice house on the gulf they go to sell the house on the gulf why do you have a bunch of junkie hous in the feud you well you got to pay to clean them up or pay the fines and usually they come and pay the fines and so it allows the city to collect the money the goal would then be if you are collecting that money that's where you look at your abatement Revenue that's what a lot of cities then put that money back towards the batement and that's a separate whole issue than the CR I I have passed the G to the mayor Mr Mayor uh we're on item agenda item three I've not called for public comment I did want to uh make a comment real quick on this particular agenda item real quick on the workshop yes sir okay goe um as as Ronald Reagan famously says one of the worst things you could hear as an individual is I'm from the government I'm here to help so um I I'm going to be highly skeptical of of any sort of uh abatement policy because it it is in fact that us as a government walking in saying we're here to help but I do see some utility in it I hear councilman Valley's concerns about us basically racking up these finds it's a way to kind of stop the finds but I again I'm going to be highly skeptical of it I think that we need to we need to be presented with a very structured program that will allow um everybody a fair uh a fair take and fair interaction with with the program Mr Mayor yes um so you know to that I say that again this one there's two there's two positive and and Mr ainson pointed out the second one the first one is that we're recing the fines and it's just endless if the abatement happens the fines stop at that point stop acre at that point they remain in place but they sto acre at that point the city has the benefit of it's fixed we're not just continuing with the blight and the the problem that we're trying to solve the other thing is that this improves the property to what point that a sale is possible because what we're learning into another situations either we're waiting for a potential buyer and then they're hit with the lean and don't want to look at it because they also have to do the improvements this has taken care of that problem on the front end and stopped that lean number from getting ridiculous and Mr harison the in for the normal process we we we don't stop but we use the value of the structure or the property as a as a trigger for the consideration of the city manager to bring It Forward for for closure consideration mayor righte uh I I would like to see staff develop this this policy obviously I think there's some from what I'm hearing there's some consensus of modeling this after bay County's abatement procedures and programs but I would like to see uh basically some real world world examples take take some of the existing uh code issues that we have give us some examples of where this would be give me give me three examples I don't think that that's too too much to ask considering the the volume of Co cases that we have and and give us some real world examples of what this would be and what this will cost I think that that needs to go into it but again I'm going to uh retain a pretty healthy skepticism of of us just coming in and fixing things for for people okay and you were on you you're done with three now you think I think so all right we'll open the floor for public comments anyone want to comment on this open Robert Rond for the record um I actually came to talk about code and Rose but because of your prior conversation about Arc GIS I am very very excited to hear that you're thinking about making that transition so I'm gonna leave it at that because I know you want to take a break for the meeting but please for all of those that are not versed in that please very very very seriously considered migrating to that thank you thank you anyone else Mr Mayor may we just take like five we'll take we'll take a 10 minute break minut okay U all we'll call this Workshop adjourn 6101 51 510 well I'm way off today