DelenCo Township Committee special town hall meeting of July 21st, 2025, beginning at 6:00 p.m. at the Deleno Township Municipal Building, 770 Coopertown Road, Deleno, New Jersey.
Thank you. Good evening. Welcome to uh July 21st Township Committee meeting, town hall, 6 p.m. located at 770 Coopertown Road here at the Menville Building. Roll call, please. Mr. Bartlett here, Miss Fitzpatrick here, Mr. McFaden here,
Mr. Alat here, Miss here. Thank you. Also present, Mrs. Sima, our township administrator. Mr. Heinhold, our solicitor, Mrs. Lure, our municipal clerk, Mrs. Russell, our deputy municipal clerk. Uh, please rise for the flag salute.
I aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Uh, could you please read the sunshine
and live stream statements, Janice? Please be advised that proper notice of this meeting has been given in compliance with the open public meetings act in the following manner. Written notice has been mailed to the Burlington County Times and Courier Post and published in the June 21st, 2025 editions and written notice has been
posted on the official bulletin board of the Township of Delanc at least 48 48 hours prior to the meeting. This meeting of the Delanka Township Committee may be transmitted via livereamed on YouTube video. The streaming of the meeting is not intended to be relied upon as formal
public access under the open public meetings act. And if the technology is disrupted for any reason, the township meeting will proceed in person as an official meeting in accord with the official notice. Thank you. If you could please take a moment and silence all your cell phones
or put them on vibrate. And um we're going to go ahead and read the rules governing public comment period and start our special town hall presentation. So Matt, could you please read them? Uh sure. I'm testing my vision tonight here. All right. Uh, pursuant to the
provisions of the Open Public Meetings Act, NJSA 104-12, the Deleno Township Committee is entitled to permit, regulate, or prohibit public participation in its meetings. Public participation and comment shall be governed by the following rules to maintain order and present prevent disruption of the
meeting. Each speaker will have a maximum of 5 minutes to speak and should limit comments to the matter at hand. The speaker will be directed to conclude the remarks once the speaker's time has expired. No time may be yielded to a speaker by another speaker. Groups are asked to select a spokesman to speak on
their behalf. Speakers will address the township committee from the podium and are asked to begin their remarks with their name and address for the record. Township committee members are not obligated to answer impromptu questions or address remarks of the public during the public comment period. The speakers
should expect the township committee to refrain from engaging in a dialogue except to the extent necessary to clarify the speaker's comment. The allotted time for engaging in a dialogue except to the extent necessary to clarify the speaker's comment. I'm sorry,
Janice, you changed the font and it's so much smaller to read here. The allotted time for speaking from the podium is the method to address the township committee during the public comment period. The township committee will not entertain questions or comments called out from the audience. Speakers and members of the public should at all times maintain
proper decorum and shall make their comments in a civilized manner. Personal attacks, obscenities, derogatory or slanderous remarks will not be tolerated. Thank you very much. Um Mr. Heinhold, could you um would you like to read your comments?
Yeah, I um I actually wrote out a statement which I I think I I'm not sure I've ever done this in my career before, but I'm going to read a statement to you. Um we had some extensive discussion. I don't want to repeat myself, but I if you didn't watch or come to the last meeting, you may want
to go back and check the video and see the discussion about there's been an issue that's been raised about expenditure of public funds for um promotional materials relative to 401 Creek Road. So, this issue is what leads
to my statement. Over the past couple of weeks, uh, an issue has been raised asserting that the township should not have expended public funds, approximately $2,800, to send mailers and place signs to encourage voters to approve the pending
bond referendum related to the $3.6 million bond to purchase 401 Creek Road. The issue was further discussed at length at the township's July 14th committee meeting where I explained where and I explained my reading of the law on the issue and the reasons for my conclusions.
Um, I went on about 10 minutes when I did that, so I'm trying to be a little bit more concise tonight. Following the comments made by the public and discussions that immediately followed, I conducted additional legal research. And that research has revealed additional law that, while not directly under the
subject statute, calls into question my prior conclusions. While there is supportive law and logic behind the position that the township should be able to expend funds in this matter, there is also legal authority which suggests which suggests otherwise. In some the area of the law is not
sufficiently well-developed to provide legal assurance as to my initial analysis being the definitively correct opinion. In this situation, I am recommending we er on the side of caution. Additionally, discussions immediately after the meeting also indicated that
there were potentially private funds willing to reimburse the township so that quote the public fund complaint is no longer an issue. While that initial decision that expending public funds was made in good faith given the relatively small amount of money at issue, the further legal
findings and the offer of private funds, it has been my recommendation to take curative action to accept those private funds to remove any potential issue. When presented with this information, the four members of the governing body that are in favor of the purchase of 401 Creek have indicated their commitment to raise those funds relatively quickly to
effectuate a reimbursement to the township. It is clear that this has become a somewhat controversial or divisive uh topic. Further, the members of the governing body in favor of the purchase of 401 Creek Road are concerned that the contention surrounding this issue may distract from the true issue, which is
of course whether the purchase of 401 Creek Road is beneficial for the township. Simply put, there are times where there are things more important than being right. Discretion is the better part of valor. Those members of the governing body that have stepped forth to take
this action to raise funds and reimburse the township took the initial actions in good faith and reliance upon my legal opinion. The steps being taken now are in further good faith effort to respond to the criticisms and an attempt to resolve differences within our community as amicably and honestly as possible to ensure that the
issue before the voters remains as clear as possible whether to purchase the property is in the best interest of the township. We're going to put this up on the website as well. Thank you, Doug. I appreciate that. And uh in our previous town halls, we've
gone into detail about what the purchase is, why we're purchasing this, and I think everybody kind of has more information now to where we can skip that part of that. Don't have to go back into the presentation itself. The presentation is available on the website um detailing
you know how we got to this point why we're purchasing it um the timeline uh soil and groundwater investigation is posted up there um additional benefits the maps showing the plot lines are all
up there so we just kind of want to focus um on this town hall just answering some questions and giving more information uh if necessary to clarify before the vote on Tuesday. So again, Matt read the rules governing the public
comment period that your timer starts at 5 minutes. I have a timer up here that I'll be happy to keep track of that for you and then I'll let you know when you have one minute left. So, uh, if you'd like to make a comment or have a question, you can come up to the podium and state your name and address for the record. Mayor,
sure. Uh, prior to the public, I'd like to make a uh a statement, please. Sure. Okay. Uh we're here to with the uh m just pull the microphone closer to you. There you go. We're here uh to the point now that
we're going to have the referendum vote next Tuesday. And uh the reason that we've gotten to this point is uh folks signed a petition to bring it to referendum for and I'll just read it uh
of what they read prior to signing the petition. We the undersigned through this petition oppose the debt to be incurred for the acquisition of land and the improvements there on located at 401 Creek Road to Lico Township, New Jersey.
We oppose appropriating the sum of $3,600,000 therefore and the authorization of issuances of 3,420,000 bonds for notes by the township for financing such appropriations.
So we started out uh criterion went before joint land use board. They got their approvals. some residents came before the committee and asked if we could look into it. We did subcommittee and then as time went
forward uh a uh agreement of sale took place and then came point uh a point for the bond uh and opposing the bond uh is where we're at the debt of the bond. You know, I started out with uh having this
20-day window of uh being able to object to the debt. When I started out, I was like, I I don't think I can get get 10 people to sign this thing. All right. And then as I started, uh you know, people said, well, give me the give me the slip. You know, folks in town should
have the opportunity to vote on this for 3.6 million. We should all have a say in this. Uh, so we got to 10 people and next thing you know, you know, we're close to 100 signatures and at that point I was like, this thing has grown
and I better advise the rest of the committee. And I did that through our solicitor, Mr. Heinhold. Okay. Uh, and we ended up with 307 signatures, which was way over the 206 signatures that
were needed to bring it to referendum uh, for a vote. So, here we are. The opportunity or the unique opportunity for our community to vote on whether they want their tax dollars uh to go towards the debt uh is where we're at.
So, I encourage everyone and knowing that uh we're uh probably in the $70,000 range for this election. All right. I feel like there's some pressure there that uh we need to get folks out to vote and again
for this unique opportunity whether they vote yes, they vote no. Uh it's a unique opportunity for the residents uh to have their say and I'll leave it at that. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Doug. Just a quick fact check
on that. We didn't find out about the petition until the 28th of April, right? We didn't have any notice ahead of time that this was forthcoming. Mayor, I didn't know this was going to be an issue. I don't know exactly what the timeline was for the petition. I will
say that the statute provides a 20-day window. Mr. Let did advise me and I advised uh others in town as soon as I learned that there was a an effort to put a petition together. the exact timing of that I I don't remember, but
the the only operative fact really is that there's a 20-day window from which to file that those petition documents and as evidenced in by the prior action early in May, the resolution that was adopted, put the referendum on the
ballot. So, that's all that's all been done and that's a 20-day statutory. Yes. Standard with every bond with every um per the bond law. Yes. Yes. Thank you. Uh any other members of the committee wish to speak before we
open it to public comment? Um, I think maybe we should state the fact that right after the joint land use board hearing where criterion was approved, uh, Mike Templeton brought up to the
township committee and this was in 2024. Um, why don't we buy this property and make this go away? And um we sort of pondered that but we didn't take any complete action or any real action at that time but we did
think about it. So as time went on we decided yes let's look into that and see what a verbal approval or um value of that property would be to um maybe make
an offer on that land. And so uh we set up a subcommittee of Carolyn and I because you can only have two people on a subcommittee when you have five members on the township committee. So that initial idea came from Mike and uh Carolyn and I did sit down with them as
this has been stated I don't know how many times before but I just feel like we should reiterate it. Uh so we did sit down with them and at it was um valued verbally at four 400 or $4 million. So
we offered 30 3.5 thinking that um maybe they would come back at four and they agreed to accept our offer. So after they agreed to accept our offer before we actually did the letter of intent, we were work Doug was working on that. We actually um put
that through. We did a um an a good assessment value which came in at $5.4 million. So we thought we were pretty good at doing that and everyone on the township committee agreed to the
agreement of sale. Everyone signed the agreement. Yes, we're in favor of purchasing this property. And so it was and working in law for as long as I did
I have um 40 years in total and handling a lot of real estate transactions during that time. It's very rare that someone agrees to purchase property and all of a sudden backs out of financing it. So I understand what Fern
is saying and I also understand that there's a vision for the town to protect the town by purchasing this property. Uh
just like we had a vision when we purchased the mansion and I have said this over and over again. And if you were at the the ceremony at the mansion, uh, our waterfront park, that vision
started in 2005. But we didn't know what the end result was when we bought that building. That building was like 171,750,000. Then we bought the carriage house. That was a little over 350,000.
And I don't it was more than we anticipated when we bought the carriage house. But and but we stopped something from happening in town that would have been a disaster. We stopped a juvenile detention center from being put
in a beautiful building there. So right now what we're trying to do is to stop another problem in town, a a diesel truck facility between a park and a residential residence. So it's no
different than a vision for the for the mansion. And we didn't have a plan for the mansion. We had hoped to keep the property for Deleno Township, but we couldn't. It was too costly for us. So we went down the road redevelopment. We
had a couple different people come in and want to purchase it. They had plans. When you do that, you have the option. You make the decision of what actually can be developed on that piece of property. And we finally had Grapevine
come in. And when Grapevine came in, in order for them to make any money on that property, they had to have the opportunity to put town houses around the mansion in order to redo the mansion, in order to bring it
up to standards. We got 27 affordable housing senior units there that is on our affordable housing list that we do not have to have any affordable housing. this this this time around. This is the fourth round. We probably don't have to
have any in the fifth round either. So, you need to keep that in mind. The tax base that we got from the property surrounding the mansion was a good deal for Delano, believe me. So, that vision we didn't have when we purchased that
property. We were trying to keep it for the town, but we couldn't. But that vision turned out to be a pretty good vision for Delanco. Look at the park we have today. We fought with the Army Corps of Engineers and D to gain back 10 ft of
property that was eroded away and now we have it. We have a wonderful park for the people to enjoy. So what's to say? Now that was in 2005. God knows what that property would be worth today. So,
what's to say that this property is not going to benefit Delano down the road? Right now, that property brings in uh a tax base of $23,000. Out of that, Delanco Township probably
receives a little over 7,000. So, we're not losing a lot of money. And when they finish doing what they're going to do out there, we may get maybe 8,000. and the school may get I don't know 10 or 12 the rest will go to the county and the
state. So, um, I understand economics. I understand people having to expend more money for taxes, but give us the opportunity to know that what we're doing is for the benefit of
this town because that's why we're doing it, to save a piece of land for the benefit of all the residents in this town. Not all the residents live near the Zurbrook mansion and enjoy the waterfront property in this town,
but we did it for all the residents in town to have the ability to enjoy it. So, just think about that when you think about when you go to vote. This wasn't something that we just decided to do overnight and it wasn't something that
was not transparent. It's what we do. We try to make decisions for the betterment of this town. So when you go to vote, think about this. Think about what we've already done in the past and how this can benefit the future of Delanka.
Thank you. Thank you, Kate. Matter Phil, did you want to make any comments at this time? I think Kate covered it well. Yes. Thank you, Kate. That was very well said. Appreciate that. Okay, so we'll circle back and actually open this now to public comments. Again, please come to the podium and state your name and
address for the record. Austin Dasher, 2405, Burlington, A. U. I will begin by once again thanking the committee for this opportunity to learn more and discuss this $3.6 $6 million bond and highlighting their reasons why they believe it is the right decision to purchase this land. After giving the
committee the chance to explain their arguments for the purchase, I wanted to take this opportunity to highlight the list of cons or negatives that seem to have been either downplayed or left out. I lay these out not to define what you guys feel about this bond, but to ensure an equal representation of both
arguments. I want to start with the biggest issue, taxes. And let's be clear, nobody can say how much or how little taxes will be increasing, but even the committee has acknowledged that they will increase. Context is important, and before we can even start
looking at the tax impact coming from the 401 purchase, we need to look at the look at everything leading up to it. The township is already looking at tax impacts, including but not limited to the approximate $104 increase to taxes from this year. The Delanco Centennial
Celebration costs, which we're currently sitting at about 25 grand, an equal amount or more are expected in 2026 depending on donations. Current debt repayment has been reduced to the almost minimum to try and offset this year's taxes. My interpretation of
that would be that this minimum would mean we can't rely on lowering our payments much further to reduce these taxes. approximately $200,000 for a potential municipal building roof replacement as quoted by Mr. Bartlett. Trash collection and disposal is
expecting significant increases in 2026 and $3.5 million bond for school repairs and upgrades that are being done to the Pearson school this summer. Now, the committee has stated that this will not impact 2025, but they cannot guarantee it won't impact 2026 and beyond.
And purchasing this property would also result in the loss of over $23,000 in tax revenue for the township and school. All of these tax impacts are coming in before we even add this $3.6 million bond. How much will each of these affect taxes? Nobody can say, but I hope
everyone can see how these things are already beginning to stack up. I haven't even mentioned the other expense increases coming, like the electric bill increase that we're all dreading. Who are we to decide how much of a tax increase is small or inconsequential? What is small to you may be unbearable
to me? For a topical analogy, when the weather's getting hot or you don't turn on the heat in your house. The idea that a small increase is assumed to be acceptable is kind of upsetting. I don't think we can make that decision for others, and I believe that is a very pertinent reason as to why this
referendum is so important. Next is the lack of a plan. Now, I'm well aware that adding a plan would change the cost of the bond and its interest rate. So, I don't want to focus on the lack of a plan for what to do with 401, but rather the lack of any contingency plans in the event that things don't go the
committee's way. No contingency has been presented. No expectations for what happens if the land can't be sold have been outlined and no strategized to minimize the negative impacts have been presented. Instead, the focus has been entirely on what would happen if things go perfectly. While I would love to
assume things will always work out, I think everybody has had experiences where despite how hopeful they've been, things just didn't go their way. And despite being made aware of how concerned residents are about this purchase, the fact that the committee still has not come up with a contingency plan to ease their minds is once again
concerning. Finally, as I know there is a time limit I must abide by, I want to cover the how the committee has handled themselves during this purchase. It's obvious how stressful this has been for the committee and for certain moments I could absolutely see why certain tones were used or subtle comments were made and I'm not here to comment on that.
Instead, I want to talk about the communication and transparency. From the beginning, this purchase has been on an expedited timetable that's indisputable. However, my issue is with the lack of community outreach regarding this purchase. Whether Mr. Olette had the incorrect numbers or not, why was he the
only one who truly got the word out to the community? Why was he the only one to go out of his way to notify the public? The mayor is the admin of a Facebook group featuring over 5,000 members. Why were there no posts regarding it? Matt Bartlett is a group expert in that same group. Also did not post about it. I think it is fair to say
that this purchase, which is absolutely not normal and probably one of the bigger topics our town has faced in a recent memory, is kind of deserving of some extra effort to inform the public. Additionally, when questioned in public forums such as Facebook, instead of answering very simple questions, the
committee either ignored them or redirected them to the at the time brand new township administrator who was still getting used to her new position. Uh, just have 30 seconds left. Oh, appreciate it. In conclusion, I am not downplaying how people feel about truck traffic or the environment, but I
wanted to ensure an equal representation of both sides. Taxes, contingencies, and clear communication are just some of my issues, and I would love to explain more, but I'm constrained by the time limit given. Regardless, thank you for the opportunity to speak.
Thank you. [Applause] Uh, Mrs. Simmona, did you want to comment on kind of the budget and why we can't tell anybody why what their tax is going to be in 2026 and just how that process works a little bit?
Yeah, sure. Um what I can say in in some of those instances, Mr. Dasher, I know you had mentioned the roof and that has been brought up as um an estimate just like we do for the roads and uh sidewalks. We have 10-year plan for each. So, we're always updating and I
say we and I've only been here three weeks, but I really have had enough time to kind of dig in and look at the finances. Uh that is just a proposal in the future. We have no idea. It's not something that's going to be done in the imminent near future. Um, what I can speak to and what this governing body
has done is, you know, there was some old money sitting on the books. There's old improvement of the authorizations. There was old debt available. They went through and cleaned everything up. They canled all the existing balances to actually make room for this. So, while
there's going to be an increase to the expenses next year, there's also room on the revenue side to offset some of this, if not all of it. they cancelled uh in the the tune of uh $390,000 worth of old debt that is now available
to offset any increases going forward. We can use it in one year, we can use it in two years. So, they have done due diligence and trying to like free up some cash and that is money that would have been spent on other things. So, they've just prioritized it in this situation. Um I've been doing this for
well over 23 years as a CFO. I've been doing government finance over 30 and what I was shocked at are the numbers the debt ratio and what we're allowed to spend as far as debt versus what we are.
We're allowed to spend 3 and a half% of the equalized value of what the value of the town. We're at 41%. I've never seen that in all my years. And I'm not saying just because it's available you need to spend it. But it is just goes to show you how responsible they have been in
the past. Um you know your your budget increases again two around two cents every year unheard of in this economy and somehow in the past they've been making it work. Um so I'm still digging into the budget look at the details but I just can say from just strictly a
number standpoint that they have already looked at the books and have done a lot to get ready for this purchase. Thank you. Appreciate that. Anybody else want to comment quickly? No. And anybody else for public comment?
Hey, Joe. Hello. My name is Joe Galvano, 21 Magnolia Lane. Um, first I want to say thank you to the committee. I know Hello Doug. I know what it's like to sit up there. I appreciate everything you all have been
doing to try to make this town as good of a town as we can have. So, I appreciate that. Mine is not so much a statement. I just have some questions. I apologize. I came in a little late. If you repeated some of or answered some of this already, you talked about the amount of debt on the books. How much debt do we have as a township on the
books? Outstanding debt approximately. I don't want to guess. Okay. Okay. The sole purpose and while we get that answer, the sole purpose of this bond referendum is to purchase the land,
find a better suitable use for the land and sell the land. That's my understanding. Is that is that in a nutshell? Right. Correct. We are the intention of the committee is not to hold the land. Right. Okay.
Are we financing this with 30-year debt? Can you explain the debt structure that we're using to finance this a little bit? Just is it 30-year debt? Does it have call features? Can you tell me any of that? It would be 30-year debt. 30-year debt. I don't as far as I haven't gotten into
whether there were call features or not. 30-year municipal debt usually has 10-year call protection as typical in the in the finance space, right? So, we know that. Um, if we're using if if this is such a short-term need, why are we issuing
30-year debt as opposed to 5-year municipal bond debt where the interest rates are significantly lower? And you can have a call feature or a prepayment that you can apply to retire this debt
much more quickly than 30 years. if we are successful and I think you can be successful because I think the intention of what you're trying to accomplish is correct. Um I support the intention. The root of my questions is I'm not so sure I support the way we're going to go
about it in the financing end of it. So do we know how much debt we have on a little over 2 million. A little over two million. Okay. So, um, has there been a discussion about using short-term debt that when you sell this property, if you if you borrow it three
years, you know, a 30-year 30-year municipal bond paper is five roughly five and a quarter. I don't know if you've got guidance on what the interest rate is that approximate, right? I think anywhere from about three and a half% to 4% is what they're selling for right now. Right. On 30-year paper, I think that's off. If
you look in the open market right now, 30-year AAA rated bond pays five and a quarter percent. Yeah. The sewer authority, it depended. It would it was kind of varied. Three and a half to five and a quarter. Okay. Right. They were they were in between. We we got some at three and a half and some at
five and a quarter and then we got some government that was zero. Right. So at at fiveyear debt, you're roughly two and a half, two and three/4ers. And again, back to the point of with short-term debt, instead of having 10-year call protection built
into the bond, you could have maybe two-year call protection. Would the committee has the committee explored using short-term debt? Yes or no? And why or why not? Wouldn't the interest rate be Yes. Go ahead. Okay. What? Again, I was not here back then, but we would definitely be looking
at short-term notes. Um that we're going to look at all financing options. Well, I guess but but we just said we're using 30-year debt. Well, we can that was the numbers that everyone was going on in the previous. Correct me if I'm wrong. That was the estimate. That's useful life, I believe. Correct. It is. Yes, it's the useful life. But
yes, I we would definitely look at going out to notes first and see if that would be more beneficial. There was a financial adviser involved, so we would be doing that as well to make sure that we're getting the best, you know, bang for our buck. Uh I can tell you we just did a note renewal and the interest rate
was uh net 3.74%. For what term? One note. How long period? One year. One year for how long? How much? Three 2.3 I believe 3.74% for one year notes. So on 2.3 million, right? Is that much? Yes. Yes. Wow. Yeah.
Okay. So unfortunately but again so my so so my question goes back to as a committee I think we have I I think from where I stand it's this process of how we finance this debt and I would ask all of
you to really think about and I know it's a very short time frame because for me my vote depends on how you finance this. That's where my vote lies on how you do this. If you say if you said to me, Joe, we're going to do five-year debt with that has a two-year call feature or a three-year call feature,
and we as a committee right now would commit that when we sell this property, we pay the debt off immediately. Yeah. See, for me, my Well, but if you have 30-year debt, Matt, with a 10-year call protection, you can't call the debt. Can't call it. You have call protection. So, you're
issuing a municipal bond. Is that correct? Or are you borrowing money from a bank? How is it being done? I mean is is it is it a municipal bond that anybody in this room could buy? So my the bond ordinance to authorize the amount right once you do that bond
ordinance you can do bond anticipation notes until you go to permanent financing. I fully anticipate because of the flexibility the municipality wants to have to try to find a better use for this property that for the reasons that you're stating, the professionals
involved in my partner's bond council and there's a financial consultant involved that um we wouldn't immediately dive into the 30-year permanent financing. There would be most likely, especially in that first year, an effort
to just do a bond anticipation note so that we can figure out, you know, what what our market is and how quickly we can get this back on the market. There are a variety of lending options. I spoke to a lender today. There are and I come from a little bit of a lending background, a little bit of a finance
background. There are a variety of options. And when you have a short-term need, I would just implore you to explore this very very carefully about how long you take this debt for and what you can I would almost
ask you right now to take a straw vote, but I don't think you would. that any proceeds from the sale of that process immediately pay off any outstanding debt that the township has. Whether it's existing debt of 2 point some odd million that you can get rid of or again
properly structuring this debt so that there is no excessive prepayment penalty and that the call protection isn't so great that it right the cost of floating this bond is built in whether it's a 5-year or a 30-year there are you know
there are interest options again same thing we do with our homes right I'm going to refinance my house or I'm going to take out a a short-term loan on my house. I'm selling it in two years. I'm not going to throw money at the principal for the next two years. I'm just going to throw it at the interest because why would I take this money out
of my pocket, right? I'm not looking to build equity over the next, right? So, I would just say and I would love to hear some I will come back to this meeting and hold your feet to the fire on in terms of the debt structure. I really think and I
really hope and I know that you'll sort of lead the charge on this Doug because you'll speak to council but yes there has to be there is a better way there is the best way to do this from a financing perspective that allows this
town to get back out from underneath of the 3.5 million quickly. So if it's $200 a year I saw that number right thrown around, right? If it's 200 bucks a year that it cost the taxpayer, if I do that for 30 years, that's ridiculous. If I do that for three
years, I bet you me, I know me, and I bet you most of the people in here could swallow that for the right reasons. Okay? I don't think we should be in the business of speculating on land. I think a lot of us are scratching our heads around 5.4 million assessed, 3.5 million
purchase. Okay. I I I'm sure you've answered that. I don't know if you've answered that question, but why would you know you're in real estate, you your land, you're professionals. It's a head scratcher to me and I don't know if there's a an explanation behind that. I know a lot of people have asked that
question. Why do we think we're buying a property for $2 million below its assessed value? Why would a real estate investment company sell a piece of property for $2 million less than it's valued at? I couldn't even tell you. I've never commented on it. Right, Doug? I mean, it's just a lot. Do you have do you have
some background on that at all? So the the appraisal is public record. We've shared that and the appraisal company that was used is in my opinion the best at least in Burlington County if not beyond um male Associates out of out of Lumberton. So they're well
respected. They've been around for for decades. the company. I think you have to understand I this is just my view and I don't know the answer to the question you're you're asking with certainty but
when we reszone the property from from the original industrial zoning and took away the warehouse use and made the I3 zone that did not permit warehousing anymore. the company that criterion that we've been dealing with was
subject to that change having just recently purchased those properties and we they sued us, right? So, we sat the first thing we did was reached out to them and said, "Let's sit down and have a conversation about what you could live
with so that we don't get into an extended piece of litigation." And what I was trying to do and what the subcommittee and the whole governing body was trying to do is not lose the whole resoning so that because if we lose to them, we lose the whole reasoning and warehousing is back on the table for all the properties, not just
this one and Criterion wanted to put a warehouse there. They they had proposed a warehouse there. They came back with the truck maintenance facility. So we had extensive discussions with with them to resolve that litigation,
preserve the I3 zoning and and and the solution was to pair down a truck maintenance facility and not have a warehouse on that site. The I think because we developed a relationship with them through that process, they had just
gone through the board hearing. Right after that, we reached out to them and said, "Hey, you know what? were actually now interested in purchasing the property. They had sat through the board hearing just like everybody else. It was not pleasant. I wasn't there, but apparently it was a rough meeting. And I think
their view of it was they they look at it in terms of what did they just get approved and what do they think that means to them in terms of dollars? What are they into it for? What are they going to get out of it? That first number they threw out was $4 million. And so there was discussion back and
forth. Again, we threw out we had discussions, oral discussions with the appraiser just to make sure we weren't out of the ballpark and they said, "We think it's worth at least 4 million and probably more." We went back with 3.5 million and I thought there would be further negotiation and they agreed to it.
Okay. I think I don't want to, you know, put too much emphasis on it, but I think the fact that they were trying to basically look at the situation and go, we're either going to be fighting with the town or every time there's a complaint from the neighbor behind, we're going to have a zoning officer out
on our property and our tenants are going to be complaining to us or however that's going to work. I think there was just an effort to like, okay, what can we live with? How can we how can we make this work? and and and so if their offer initial sale was 4 million and you negotiated to three, then that sort of
makes me feel okay, right? That makes me feel okay. They came to an agreement on three and a half. You got an appraisal. It's worth a lot more money, but we came to an agreement on three and a half. So, and you know, I would say again, I think that appraisal company's great. I used them for a lot of things over the years. I think they're very well respected. They came to the conclusion they came
to. Since then, what I think is even more telling to me is in Delano, so we got a Delano piece of property. The old Wallace paving site has also since gone under contract. And I I don't know the exact number, but it's over $3 million, 3.6 it sold for. Okay.
So, you know, pretty good pretty good comparable. Yeah. And just a quick comment on that property, it was never for sale publicly. Um, it was for rent uh back in January, I believe, or a um February.
Another site listed it in January for $9,100 a month for rent. It was never listed for sale. Looks like it was an offmarket sale and then sold in March for 3.6. Just a quick note on that. So, I think you I think you again not here to
not here to criticize the concept and the idea. Um, right? You know, I told you we're what's crucial for my vote is that structure because again, I would I would expect that if that property is sold, we have the I don't want to see three and a half
million or $4 million go into the coffer and we pay for that over time out of everybody's pockets with not a lot of use. The the the Fisher Canvas property is sitting there, right? We own that property, right? That's that's a property that we own. So, I just I worry about being in the real estate. We're
not in the real estate business, but we are in the community building business. And I do think that what you're trying to accomplish makes a lot of sense, but again, and I'll say it for the last time, it's the structure for me that is the most important because I think you have to be able to get out from under
this debt as soon as possible and you will get the support that you want if you can figure that out before the 29th vote. Um, I will make just one other comment. I don't like to hear that the township is only losing x number of
dollars. The school is also has to be you have to say that the town is losing the full amount of the revenue for the one or the two-year period of time because as a committee you work closely with your school board and if the school board is in trouble then this group of people sitting here is in trouble
because we're going to be asked to pay for whatever trouble there is. Sure. So when you say that we're only losing 24,000 and it's 50,000. No, it's 24,000. That's the that's the full tax bill is 24,000. Okay. But then but then it's stated that the town is only losing eight. Yep. Right.
Township seven. The school loses eight. So you got to talk in my opinion. Yeah. It should be talked about I'm just just my feedback. It should be talked about as a whole number because the school and the committee were all Delanco, right? They were all Delo. So,
I did mention that earlier. You know, you miss I'm anxious. Okay. So, I am anxious again. Thank you for what you do. I know it's I know you commit a lot of time to this and uh I hope that it turns out the way all of us want it to turn out. Thank you, Joe. So, thank you for your time. Thank you, sir.
So, just uh appreciate that. Yeah. I think we should I think we should address Joe's comments though because we have Joe uh with Richard and I'm sure we're going to do that with Deborah that we have worked on that basis where we pay off we
do a lot of shortterm notes and that's why our debt is so little. I mean a little over 2 million is really good for our township. We haven't gone out to long-term financing. I couldn't even tell. It's always shortterm and you can do it up to
10 years. And that's what we should do on this so that we Exactly. So we can pay it off as soon as we sell it. And then if you make profit and if you make profit, it goes into your surplus
and then that gets added to to our budget and decreases tax increases or that profit pays off the other $2 million. Yeah. Yeah. So Right. Yes. So, thanks Joe. I don't want you to call out comments. I don't want to upset everybody else by doing that. So, thanks
for your comments. Um, Mayor, can I can I add add to the um Sure. So, I think it's important getting a lot of phone calls in the office and we don't comment on pro, con, whatever. We stick with the facts. People preface a lot of times when they call in, they say
they're scared about 3.5 million in taxes next year, having to raise the three. And I think there's a lot of misunderstanding just from people calling in. They think that the 3.5 million is due next year and that's not the case. But um
I think we just brought up an important part. The 2 million that was just refinanced is on a bond anticipation note. And the other thing, Joe, if you remember when you were committee on the bond anticipation notes, you only pay on the um interest for three years before you have to start
paying on the principles. And the bond market is so you go out to the bond market and you see what's out there and you get your best you you go out to bid right and you get the best that you can on on that short-term note. So that first three years there's not even in principle due there's just interest do
the and the thing is you're watching the bond markets because I don't know if you remember when interest rates were less than 1%. Okay. Anybody who had long-term amateurization on the useful lives went to permanent financing. That made sense
at that time. So, it's not like the committee and and your finance officer and your administrator are watching the bond marking, watching interest rates. um if we have a financial advisor who who is out is watching and advising hey it's it would be good if you know and
that's only if the township committee keeps the property that we're looking at a long-term amateurization but I think one of the misconceptions that we're getting you know with phone calls in the office is a lot of people think that the full amount is due like in one year and that's just not the case but that the
bond anticipation market the bond anticipation note market right now. It is, you know, very favorable and and and with this purchase, there's no principal due until the fourth year. So, thank you, Janice. That's important
to point out and I did have that in my notes here to address. And I believe the first year interest was about 120,000. Do you have that information, Jess? That's correct. Yes. So, if you remember earlier, she said that we have $390,000 in um bonds that were cancelled and now
sitting there. So that's 3 years worth of interest payments right there that no one would have to absorb. There would be no tax increase because we already have money there. So I think that's important to point out. Just 3 years worth of interest is already covered. Um, anybody else want to comment on
anything else with finance? I know it's our favorite thing to talk about. Well, I guess we could just say that we just retired one administrator who was just an excellent in finance and we've just hired one who is excellent in
finance. So, I think we're really in a good position to do the right thing. Yeah. On top of our CFO who's excellent in finance. We we really have some two so we have really good guidance strong finance uh guidance and then of course our um our financial adviserss, our attorneys
who are do this for a living in the bond market. So I I think we're really well protected. Um you know a lot of us up here have understand the finances of the township and how this works. So um we would do our due diligence and make sure we're getting uh the best uh financial
scenario. So yeah, and I concur with Mr. Check out Vano's comments. You know, get the money in, get it sold, get it off the books, and pay it off. And pay it off. I think we've echoed that since day one that we never intended to keep debt or carry long-term debt.
And um like I said, any profit that we would get would go into our surplus and then help alleviate tax increases in the future due to regular expenses. So, um okay, let's move on. Anybody else have any comments? Verod Dormo 605 Hickory Street. Um,
first I want to say thank you for letting Joe go over the five minute limit because he did have a lot of um stuff that it's hard to time you when you're going back and forth. So yeah. No, that was excellent. And um during co as a teacher, you know, I had to learn all this technology I wasn't
familiar with, but it can be done, you know. So, I hope that the committee can learn how to use that screen because that's going to be like the joint land use people can can teach you guys. So, could someone from either our joint land use board or the committee come over to
the maps and show me what trees are going to be left and show me a little bit about the traffic. And it's it's far away, but I'll um video it so that people can see it when I post it because um can someone come up
and do that like about the traffic patterns? Like I know that uh Mayor Seuss, you said you didn't have the traffic study handy. You said that in Facebook comments. I personally on a Sunday did not have it handy. Right. So now we're at the meeting. You got it handy? I'm sure it's in our records. Uh I don't
have it sitting up here on the day as though. No. Does anyone want to talk about the traffic? Um, Fern, are they your They're not my maps. That's not my documents. So, they're the blueprints that were presented to uh by Criterion uh from uh
Bowler Engineering back in October. Uh I picked uh the the three or four uh blueprints that are there. uh traffic uh or the truck route or tractor trailers coming in and out of 401 Creek Road uh
shows on the blueprint that it's from Route 130. Uh they can come in from there, make a left into the property, and then do whatever they need to do, and any exiting would come and make a immediate right-hand turn uh and goes
back out to Route 130. uh the way the I guess port chop or the way the entrance exit is designed it uh doesn't allow them to make that left-hand turn. Yeah, just one comment on that burn. I'm sorry.
Come in from 130. They can't come into the facility from uh Creek 130. Like can they go can they go from both sides into the facility or only one side into the facility? I think they could come in from uh Delanco Coopertown Road and turn
right out front here at the municipal building on uh make the left onto Creek Road and then uh turn into the facility making a right into it if they were uh if trucks were coming that way. Okay. So, Cooper Town and then where that big bunch of wood is right before
Newton. You got to talk at the microphone right here. They have to be able to hear you. Okay. I'm sorry. While you're getting up there, I'm sorry. Let me just interrupt for one second, please. Um there the joint land use board's resolution does not prohibit them having trucks come in
from either way, whether it's uh up Creek Road from Coopertown, which could come from Burlington Avenue through the through the rest of the town, or from Creek Road out from 130. So they could come into the property any which way they their little hearts desire. Right. That's correct. and sometimes
in the uh the blueprint that was presented uh in the traffic uh pattern. I've seen Yep. I've seen that. I don't sit on the joint land use board. So, I would I would call out why they approved it that way. Well, who's going to enforce that? Right. Some enforceable.
Some of the trucks are even on Union. I've seen them on Union Avenue in Deleno. I saw them on where they had to actually back up because they couldn't make a turn. So, the trucks are all over the town. So, just because it says they're going to go one way or this way, they're all
over town. And I'm sure other people have seen it, too. I'm sure it's not just not my eyes. There was a fellow who actually put it on Facebook the other day where the truck had to back up several times in order to make a turn, and he actually went over the curb anyway. So, um,
it's nice that public service has closed off, uh, access to Burlington Avenue, coming over the bridge from Riverside, uh, between 7:00 a.m. and 7 p.m. while they're doing the, uh, the gas work out on the street because they've got Burlington Avenue blocked off.
Be nice if that could be done permanently. Yeah, it'd be nice. Okay. So, people can judge from their own experiences about the big tractor trailers coming through. Um, I've seen like a couple years ago one instance that was really bad. So residents can judge from their own experience.
So in terms of existing trees that are going to be left, um, nobody wants to come here and do a little circle with their finger there. I'm not on the joint land use board. I saw the blueprints. I know that trees were an issue uh, dealing with the
property. I've got it there. folks can come up and take a look at it, you know, after the meeting or uh if anyone can explain it better. Uh that would be fine. I assume you have to talk at the microphone. Very the wetlands is that
that little Okay, let me go here. The bottom of the triangle. Yes. Is going to be untouched. Yes. the the trees aren't going to be uh clearcut. Clear cut means everything goes down. I saw that word used in the
uh the article that the Newton's Landing magazine had. They said that the um which was going to be clearcut. Mhm. That's not correct. This is the wetland right here. This little handle thing is Okay. Okay, that's the only So, that's going to be left and that's a
ways away from the path to the um the the path to the Pennington Park. Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Ver. Hi, good evening. My name is Lori Van Gender at 318 Maple Avenue in Delano. Um
I'm here to comment on a couple of posts that were made um on a website and specifically how um the the information or misinformation I think that they provided with regards to the joint land
use board. I was the chair of the joint land use board for 29 years. Um I uh retired from the board as of January 1st, but I was on the board um when this project was uh the application was
brought before the joint land use board and was approved. Um these posts specifically called out members of the joint land use board who were absent from the October 2024 meeting when the application for 401 Creek RA Road was
heard. And I don't know why um whoever wrote these posts felt it necessary to call people on the board out by name. I thought it was very derogatory. And um the reason I wasn't present at the meeting that night was because I was sick. Um I took time off from work. I
was not in work that day and it's not appropriate to go to a meeting at night after you've taken um time off from work. And I was so sick I couldn't speak. So, I wasn't going to run the meeting and subject my fellow board members to my sickness. So, that's the
reason I wasn't at the meeting. Um, the post also state that the meeting on October 1st was the, and I quote, first opportunity for the board to shut down Criterion's truck repair and trailer storage plans. A planning and zoning
board is bound to consider applications based on zoning and ordinances that are in place at the time the application is submitted and based on the municipal land use law. At the meeting on October 1st, the board heard the application,
asked numerous questions of the applicant. In fact, I have a copy of the meeting minutes, which Beverly did. They're excellent. um they point out all of the discussion that happened and there was a detailed lengthy discussion.
These minutes just for that application are 11 pages long. Um it was stated by the board's attorney after the applicant um presented their final submission that the application was a byite application
for site plan approval. by right refers to applications that meet the zoning code and they're not subject to any special approvals such as use variances. So board members when they are considering an application, they're required to consider the testimony
provided by the applicant and you have to base your decision on whether or not the proposed application meets the requirements of the zoning ordinances. One of the posts um states that the joint landings board
didn't want the truck repair. If they didn't want the truck repair and storage facility, they should have voted it down in the first place. Board members cannot deny an application simply because they don't like it. They must support their
decisions with findings of facts and conclusions of law which are based on the record. The other misleading statement in the post was that the jointly news board had a second opportunity to stop Criterion's plans for a truck and trailer storage
facility on October 29th. And at that meeting, which was the next meeting that the board had after they had the hearing on this application was to um memorialize the resolution.
The board's procedure is to hear an application, act upon it, and then the board's attorney prepares a resolution, its official document, which serves as the record of the board's decision. The vote on October 29th meeting was simply
to memorialize or confirm the action taken on October 1st. It is not an opportunity for board members to vote to approve or deny the application. that was done at the October 1st. So
that meeting and that that vote that was specifically again called out in that post was simply a confirmation of what took place on October 1st. So I was very disappointed to see the misinformation that was put out there and I just felt
compelled to come tonight and clarify that on the record and in a public forum. So thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. [Applause] And it's just a sh it's just a shame that the people who put this website together won't give their names and
choose to rea remain anonymous and put this misin Yes. But they but they like to put misinformation out there. I did not appreciate that. I I concur with your remarks. Thank you for taking the time to explain that
process because I think a lot of people were under the assumption that if you didn't want something you could just vote no. They are they have, you know, rules and regulations that govern them. They are quasi judicial board. So, thank you. Uh, anyone else for public comment? Good evening, Ann22 Edgewood. I also
have been on the board into the mic and sorry, I've been on the board longer than some of you were born. Um, and as a board member, as Lori stated, we have to follow the land use regulations. We have
to follow state standards. Anybody that lives in River's Edge knows that the parking is terrible. We had to approve that even though we knew the parking wasn't adequate because the state residential site improvement standards
say a garage and the driveway in front of it count as parking spaces and you can only have two parking spaces. If anybody looks at the minutes and looks at how the board members voted and why they voted, I stated that I had to vote
yes. Basically, on this one, our hands were tied because they met the zone and that this the reasonzoning to stop the warehouses was a better choice. What the township is proposing now is something
that could be the best choice and it needs time to grow and develop and it would really be foolhearted for Delano to not approve the referendum. Thanks. Thank you, Miss Moore. Thank you again. Anyone else for public comment?
Good evening, Rob. answer one 06 Hickory Street. Um, with the traffic study, I'm not familiar with traffic studies. Do they normally come with estimates for number of trucks coming in and out of the facility or Yeah. So, it's their proposed like what they estimate. Does anybody have any kind of estimate
of what they saw on the traffic study? Because my my one of my major concerns is that a lot of these things have been overstated. A lot of these concerns have been overstated and we don't have any objective data to tell us there's going to be two trucks a day. there's going to be 50 trucks a day. Um, it's really just
left up to everybody's own speculation at that point. So, does anybody have any idea? Anybody? If we've had a study done, it would have really been good to have that info previously. I guess I have to tell you, Rob, I don't put any merit into their traffic studies. They're done by the applicants
engineers, right? They're just a best guess estimate. No one's holding them to the fire with that. Of course, there always I feel like an error on that. That's also will keep telling us that there's going to be an increase in traffic, but you can't tell us how much. Um, so there's 124 trucks that are going to be
allowed to park there. So, again, that still doesn't tell us how many trucks going to be coming in town. You got people imagine there's going to be trucks coming in and out every minute there. I imagine they want to turn the trucks as soon as possible to make the profit on repairs of the trucks. We don't know what level of repairs they're going to be doing all either.
Um, but that and that goes along with the pollution, too. I mean, we hear, you know, I I I'm really afraid that a lot of this stuff is being mis overstated and we don't know. We don't have any objective data to tell us that. Um, but I guess we won't have that still or
um I know Mr. Burke has all the documents. He could probably share that information with you or you could, you know, submit a request and Yeah. get that, but I don't have it off the top of my head. Right. Right. I just wish that that was presented earlier on as we're telling everybody there's going to be increased. Um, also, um, I do appreciate Mr.
Heinald's statement earlier about the signs. Um, I am disappointed in the committee members though of not looking at whether how the township would how the public would view that. You just looked at the legality of it and said, "Yes, we're going to put these signs out and say vote yes without considering
that there's probably a lot of people that are a little upset to see their money used to um, put up signs for something they don't agree with." So, I just wish that the township committee members could really think about that next time. Just not whether it's legal or not, but whether it's right or not. Let's hope there's never a next time.
Yeah. Anyone else? That's right. Carl Terasi, 55 Pennington Court. I am a member of the Joint Land Use Board and I am a member of the Shade Tree Commission. Unfortunately, I've only been here for a
short portion of the meeting tonight. Um, but I did hear uh Miss Van Gendrin's speech. uh and having been a and still being a lawyer for the state of New Jersey uh
since 1969, I can say that her interpretation of what was before us on the joint land use board at the time we voted for this is
accurate. that we we may not have liked that idea at all, but uh we were bound by what the regulations were at that time. Now, as far as the Shade Tree
Commission, uh I speak for myself, not for the commission, uh but I understand something like 70 trees will be removed. uh 700 700
okay and the uh whole area will be black docked. Now there was some talk earlier tonight about the u bottom area uh the swampy area.
that black top will allow runoff from the trucks to run down and into that area. Uh so that's that's a problem too as well as the loss of the trees themselves
uh which will u lose the ability for us to breathe better throughout the community. Thank you. Thanks, Carl. Thank you.
Scott Duke, Pennington Court, 18 Pennington Court. Boy, I don't know where to begin with all that I've heard. Um, one thing I would like to mention between uh Newton's Landing and the Crossings, there's about 400 homes that
are contributing to the school taxes. uh that comes over to like $2 million a year that the school is benefiting each and every year. Um and a lot of that may even be to partial fault of the pilot program that was instituted some 20
years ago. Vern, I think you and Mike were involved in that which obviously cut school funding. It cut uh uh fire funding. It cut public funds funding. cut, cut, cut and had to be made up
somewhere else. My taxes here in Delano are higher than what I was per rate are higher than what I was paying in Delran for twice the size of the house, three times the size of the property, and I had a full school over there from
kindergarten on up to 12th grade. So, I was paying basically less taxes over there than I am here. Uh, I hear about the traffic. Um, it's not just about what goes in and
out of this property. Potentially it is. And I have pictures on my phone. I followed a tractor, a large tractor, just tractor with no license plate over the bridge coming into Delano. I also followed a large tractor trailer coming
into Delano from Riverside. I also have a picture where a large tractor trailer came down uh Burlington Avenue from the schools on down and had a hard time making that turn on Burlington Avenue to
go through Delanco. So now you have an Amazon open in sentiments and there's another trucking company that's taking over the other half of it. There is a huge amount of traffic on River Road.
It's all coming around here. And actually, you go yesterday or Saturday, my wife and I were on Taylor's Lane. And finally, at the end of the third light because we wanted to turn left to come north. We skirted over to the right to
get across the street. It would have been four traffic lights for us to turn left. Now, yes, that's on Taylor's Lane and Senson, but I've had similar problems up by Lidles where a lot of these other trucks are going up there
and turning. There's trucks everywhere you turn around. And now you're going to have and and basically FedEx and Carvana do their own repairs and now you're going to have independents coming around with all these warehouses. They're going to be coming in across the bridge through the
town. God knows what they're going to have on their trailers, how they're going to be washed, what they're going to spill. This isn't this isn't just a trailer storage yard like across the street. This is a truck repair. And I've been in and out of trucking since I was
probably and and I do say around it since I was probably about 12 years old. I've been involved in the business. I've called on customers. I've called on over the road people. I've driven some pretty large cylinder trucks. I know what's on
those trucks. Be careful what comes into that parking lot at all hours of the night. I don't think there's enough uh safety issues being addressed for the kids in the uh in the in the uh park, especially on the Field of Dreams. Uh
something happens in one of those trucks someday and kids are on that park, uh it could become a field of nightmares very quickly. I mean, trucks, trucks with loads, be careful. Um,
interesting on Delanco 411. Um, if you go on their website, be careful. Uh, there's some security issues that come up on there and you may be a target. I'm just putting that FYI out there. Um,
yeah, it's a shame. There's there's a lot of trolls on the internet passing a lot of misinformation. This is a good deal for Delanco. This isn't something that Delanco wants to hold on indefinitely. Uh it could be turned into something really good and there's some
people out here that just don't care and they don't care what happens to it and it's it's a sad situation. So hopefully this will get through. Thank you. Thank you, Scott. [Applause] Anyone else for public comment?
Good evening. I'm here for Michelle Carlos. She's my daughter at 301 Magnolia Lane. I'm her mom. I'm part owner of the property. Just so you know, I have a vested interest. I'm Eileen Carlos. Before I begin, I would like to know if anybody on the township committee has anything that they'd like
to say to me or about me before I begin. Perfect. Um, first I'd like to commend uh Mr. Wlette. My daughter called me in a panic. Uh, she's upset about taxes going up. She wouldn't have known anything about this. She contacted me
and from there we were we um did some review. It takes a lot. I've been in your shoes. You could see one half and they go against the other half. Just because you're the singular doesn't mean you're wrong. and I commend you for standing up
for the other side. Uh Mr. Heinhold, I really appreciate you and uh your thoughts tonight. They're accurate and male is one of the best. Which leads me to uh what I heard on the internet in with the meetings is that you're in real
estate. Who here is in real estate? I'm in real estate. You're in real estate. Do you understand that when you have a tax appeal, you could not be uh a witness in a tax appeal? you have you have no bearing on value at all. So that's why they get an
appraiser. You can always quote me when if I'm wrong, Doug. So what it comes down to is tax is the property itself was already holding storage of trucks, was it not?
Correct. And how long did you know it? until it was before my time when we got notification that it was code enforcement went out. And so living here, Kate, you've been here a long time. Yeah, I have. And you go door to door. I I mean, God bless you. I really respect appreciate you
doing what you do for the Lanko. Yeah. And actually, it was uh we finally realized that it was that they were being stored because they were actually hidden behind the trees. Correct. And so one of the joint land use things that uh that they have to do
is that they make sure usually to replace things. These 700 trees we're talking about. Are they going to be replaced? If they with regards to what do they do they have anything written in I haven't read the the land use board.
Have do they have a position where they need to replace the trees? Yes. That they're taking down. So they are being replaced and that wasn't mentioned. You're talking about when the truck repair facility is built. Yeah. You're talking Yes, they do. They had they said there was you can't just sit now. Yeah. The truck the trees were being replaced. Correct. And that because I also
brand new small trees. Yes. Yes. Because I do have comments online that said, you know, you could use your tree commission as well. They got an $80,000 grant last I knew. Uh whether or not they've cut this was a few years back. Oh yeah. And they could be if they haven't used it already if they have already
done. Yeah. Okay. So, the thing is that when we're talking about taxes, we're talking about um revaluations, reassessments. Uh a lot of people were concerned about a rebal or reassessment. Has anybody had that
concern at all on this board? We haven't had one for quite some time. The county usually calls calls that. So, you're going to rely on the county to tell you when to do it? Yeah, we don't usually do that. The county does that. All right. So, that means that the school doesn't get to collect their tax
dollars. The school is actually doing quite well since our taxes have gone up. I mean, they're they're getting much better tax because of our because of the new construction in town, because of the warehouses. They're getting more money
than they were actually because the um the roof repair that bond ordinance there's no increase in the school taxes this year with that bond ordinance because they the money they're receiving with the additional tax base is paying for that. So
in fact their taxes went down this year. So the additional tax base they're paying more money than the people afford them. Yeah they are. So that's an additional building. No, you can you can correct me. Added assessments. Added assessments for the new that works. So it doesn't mean it
doesn't mean that the ratio is necessarily off. It just means that there's an added assessment. There's a new tax base coming on, right? And we and and I understand the added assessment and I just want to correct one other thing or at least clarify make understand the school always gets its
the school sets a budget. It always gets its tax dollars, right? Yeah. They always do. Yes. But it's based on a ratio as well, right? But there's o Okay. But so if is the criticism that there's that the ratio there's no criticism other than there's
not a criticism. There's a lead to the point and the point being that $70,000 is being spent on the special election. When they needed 75, you said no. And so it's you're you were speaking about the school district never asked us for $75,000. So that's an incorrect
statement. That's not true. Mr. Bartlett was one that that did not want to give them that 75. Excuse me. This was when was this back, please. The school district never formally asked us for $75. They went out for a referendum instead. Not instead. That's what they chose to
do. They never approached us and asked for this isn't really an argument. This is not an correct in 20 I'm sorry, Kate. Let me just answer Miss Carlos's question there. back in 2020. I'm gonna I'm losing track of years.
2021, I believe it was, when there was additional funds from Living Springs that were found for the uh 50,000 for for the monies that came in. I was actually one of the few people who supported that giving the money to the school. And if I remember correctly, I
remember Mr. Templeton was against that. Miss Holland was against that. I don't remember if Fern was for or against that. That's a problem I have. Earlier, Kate, you mentioned that Mike Templeton started all this. Well, he's not here and that's hearsay. So, it's unfair to make a statement to the public and Mike's not here to defend himself. So,
how does our attorney could collaborate? He reached out to our attorney. Well, he also abained from the vote, not a legal proceeding. It's not a legal proceeding. So, we And he also abstained from the voting. He voted yes initially to approve the the purchase.
Yeah. On the first matter, and then I can't remember. I think he voted he abstained. Correct. Uh abstain. Yeah, I think that's right. You also he he was also part of that 200 Ash Street that you purchased.
We call that a question. What what the public needs to understand is that you're saying you're going to flip this flip it real quick and and you're not in the real estate business to buy property and flip property. I'm not sure the line that it draws for a township committee to be in the real
estate business. However, 200 Ash, there was a buyer at the time still refused. Then you paid for the demolition and now you still own it. You haven't flipped it. Oh, no. Because we uh actually I think we used Green Acres sort of with that. I
think Well, it didn't say it was Green Acres. I don't think the intention was to ever flip it. It's going to be Never going to flip it. It's going to be open space park. Well, it wasn't that way when when it was first purchased. And there was a buyer. There was a buyer at the time. We didn't know that. I don't I have to I
have to admit I don't rec my only recollection I don't know about a buyer in the market. I do remember a developer approaching the township and expressing an interest to put in 16 apartments on the site or something like that. Exactly. Right. Because it's 5,000 square feet per
Let me just let me just clarify a couple things and we'll give you more time. was before my time. He You're saying that somebody who h is in real estate has no ability to te to testify at a tax appeal hearing
on value. I did not say that. So what was the point then? What's the point? That you need an appraiser. Of course, right? Val values matter and that if a uh an appeal went before the board, the validity Okay, let me stop you. You know where I'm going. not in a tax appeal. Right.
Right. Okay. So, that's not applicable. We're not in a court proceeding. Correct. Correct. But you might what we're talking about is is providing information, right? So, somebody if somebody says they h they have a real estate background, that's not
irrelevant, right? But I'm not going to debate that. No, but but you're but you're trying to make a point and say that somebody who said that they're in real estate has no merit to speak on the issue on the value during a tax appeal as but that's not what we're here for. That's not what the issue is. But but
but beyond that, the person who has real has the real estate background has also gone to the measure as does the full governing body to get a real estate appraisal. Correct. Correct. But that's not the point. It's still not not my point. If you can make the point, my point is is that you're you're
getting a property 5.3 million for 3.6. That's wonderful. Okay. What if you don't flip it? Because what will be the new zoning? The new zoning is going to be the I3 without warehouse. What's the new zoning after you purchase it? The I3 is already in place. It's already
so we the the the township has to go through a process to buy the piece of property to uh bond for that piece of property. The general well I'm not sure everybody does the general municipal purpose is the
statement as to what is in other words well what is it if you let him finish he would he would tell you. So please let him finish. I don't need a whole story. Let him finish. Have some respect for our attorney and please let him finish. I have all the respect. I just want to get to the point. Let me let me just explain though. I if
if if we said, for example, we're going to keep it as open space, we're now restricted. There's nothing. We can't remove it out of open space going forward. So, typically what happens when you purchase a property, you state a general municipal purpose.
Kate, when we started the meeting, I don't know if you were here for her discussion, when the mansion was purchased, same thing. You go out to you go out you pass a bond ordinance and you state it's for general municipal purposes. After that process is done and you've
actually secured the property then you can go through the process of parsing out what the best solution is for it. Using the mansion example originally there was speculation could we keep the property? Could we do it for
some municipal use? Could we do historic was interested in it. What came to bear was clear that the amount of maintenance required for that older building was more than the township could garner in any sort of income that would come out of the property. So then the exploration
became what do we do now? Let's talk to the market and figure out who what their ideas are. That gave the town the flexibility to say okay this would be acceptable, this would not be acceptable. How much are they willing to pay? All those variables. somebody come could have come up with a great idea and
the township maybe doesn't make all its money back but it's the best long-term solution. The township can do that. The township could take an opportunity and say, you know, we're going to reszone this for residential uh we're going to put buffers in place to make sure that it's uh suitable for the area and try to
make it more consistent with that side of Creek Road. But all those options are on the table because the general municipal pro p purpose has been stated. If the municipality says we're going to do precisely this, then it's it's got to
do that with the with the financing going forward. So that's why that's why that happens that way. The other thing I will say too is is that as the mansion played out, the the riverfront was ultimately retained by the township, became a public park.
So there's discussion about reszoning this property away from industrial. That whole side used to be industrial, right? Everything that sort of got changed around it changed away from industrial to the residential uses to the field of dreams and this Fred
Kennedy's old piece stayed in the center of it. So the idea is to get it out of industrial and get it more consistent with those uses. But we can't handcuff the municipality by saying we're going to do open space, we're going to do precisely this or precisely that. We've got to go through
that process and have the all the options on the table because as soon as we lock in and say it's only going to be this, then that's all it's ever going to be. In addition, the county has already expressed interest in some of the land closest to the the creek if this transaction goes through. So there may
be more than one, you know, some some acreage may be subdivided off and some of that may go in a in a deal with the county where we pick up maybe some acreage over by the Field of Dreams from the county that's usable for for active recreation. So there's a lot of,
you know, potential there. It's it's not something that we can say today. Unfortunately, this is precisely what's going to happen because I can't tell you how that's going to exactly play out. We need to have all the options on the table so we can find the best solution.
So, it possibly can be not resold just to the public. you would resell it to the government, the county, and then negotiate with them on how much money they would be paying for that parcel. No, if I So, I don't want to confuse
issues here, and I'm not saying this is going to happen. I want to be very clear about that, everyone. I'm not saying this is going to happen. The county has expressed interest in some of the the wetland area closer to the creek. Um the the county also has other land
closer to the park that they're they'd be willing to swap. They're not talking about buying uh the Lanco property at X amount of dollars. What would be left over is the uplands portion closer to the to the
street frontage and that would be what would be uh explored for more suitable uses than what has been uh previously permitted on that site. Just correct me if I'm wrong because I want to make sure I heard you correctly.
So if you swap, does that mean that the Deleno would retain that $3.6 6 million bond and need to pay it off by just swapping or are you swapping? Not talking about property. Not it has
it really has no impact on the debt except that the township is getting possibly usable acreage. Okay. As opposed to wetlands. So that would basically answer to Joe where it's like we'll do this quick but if you're going to swap that means you retain that 30 year.
Eileen. Okay. Eileen, I just want to clarify you. That's not what that's not what that means. Well, that's why I'm asking you. Did Did I hear you correctly? No. No. The the main effort, again, I'm not saying that the county swap is going to occur.
The main effort is going to be what is a more suitable zoning for that site. It's already an area declared for rehabilitation. We have the ability to go out for RFPs to request from the market what would be suitable for that
site and to fully reject all those proposals or accept one of them and start working with a redeveloper to redevelop that site in a more palatable way that doesn't create the same issues that are being presented by what this industrial site has created
in that rehabilitation. Would there be a pilot? Possibly. My expectation is no. And I'll say this, you know, again, I can't bind future governing bodies. I don't know what happens a year from now, two years from now.
We'll just deal with current, but this is getting very off topic, but I'll address it as quickly as possible. 20 years ago when all this property in here nothing was happening with development not only in Delano but all
up and down the Route 130 corridor. There was a lot of redevelopment designation occurring and a lot of pilots being uh done to try and draw in what we call ratables things that are going to contribute to the tax base
without putting a lot of demands on our services schools etc. And why was that happening? Because the county had an initiative. The county had encouraged it. And and I'm not even saying wrong, right, or indifferent. It was what was happening at the time, economic development, and it was it was,
you know, municipalities were competing one against each other, other regions to try and draw in industry. Fast forward 20 years, the warehousing industry, I would say really from just before pre- pandemic through pandemic time within a fiveyear span,
in my view, changed completely. Right? The intensity, the truck traffic, the the uses associated with that became much more impactful than they had been in the past. And so the pendulum swings, right? Yeah. You go from a time period
where the the governing body at the time was trying to draw business in. We had uh decent Watson for a while. All those issues. Right since then, these properties, I'll make
sure I'm orienting myself right here. It's okay. I probably would have went the warehouses right here. when they came in, they made a big pitch asking for a pilot and the governing body said no. So that's to me is was the pendulum's
already swinging the other way either if you if you if you're permitted to build it and you can build it, but we're not going to, you know, try and attract you here with additional financial incentive, right? Because then it became an overburden and now you have empty warehouse. It was tren starting to trend that way.
I don't think they certainly built it thinking it would be sitting empty, right? honestly don't care if they're empty or full. They're still paying full taxes regardless. So, I think it's better that they're empty, which is a perfect point on this property as well, whether or not it draws in taxes uh for the bottom line. So, let's give you like a minute minute.
I really do appreciate that, Doug. Just, you know, I like to give you a little post. You have about a minute and a half left. Um I'm sorry, but the other guy before me had a conversation and you didn't count that. I appreciate the same respect as as a minute and a half. Thank you. So, the trailers were already there.
Nobody really knew about it. And now really the discussion is about whether or not there's a repair shop going there. And so the repair shop will um maintain itself, whatever, and bring in the tax revenue. And nobody's going to know it's there because we're going to have trees around it or they're going to
be planted anyway. Um the reassessment, re-evaluation, what will you do if the county calls on you to do that next year? It's a question and a statement. The fact it remains is that they would
that's going to be another uproar for you to deal with because then u changes will be made and you don't know how this is going to affect your property. So I would personally I would tell you to do it because you're under 85% at 64 plus and you really would need to take care
of that business. The other thing is the sale of 401 was um an NU24. Does anybody know what that means? Marked unusable. Okay, so an unusable sale. So the $2 million that's quoted really does make
it unreasonable. And Male is very good at what they do. I would definitely tell the audience that he's very good. So 5.3, I would imagine you'd want 5.3 million to come back into your coffers, not 3.6. That would not only write off that, it could write off your other $2
million. So why you would buy it at 3.6 6 and then turn around and sell it at 3.6 would make no sense. But I'm here again on behalf of my daughter um because she wants to vote no. She doesn't want any tax revenue taxes to go
up. She's already had enough with the schools on top of that. And since it's already been quoted that um taxes will go up and since there's a revaluation sitting at your doorstep, I would definitely recommend that you would not want to do this. So, I appreciate your
time. Thank you. Doug, have we heard anything from the county about a re-evaluation? Jen, no. There's no proposed order of pending order. I actually, as we were going through the end of that discussion, um I'm looking right now at uh ratio by
town for the full county. And as a general picture, almost everybody is in the 60% range. There's a couple of outliers, some lower, some higher, but the predominant figure across the county is in the 60%
60 percentiles. Thank you. Yes. Hi. Hi. Uh Steve Scoffield, 230 Walter Avenue. I want to ask Caroline if you can give me one minute. A little bit off topic.
As long as you're under five minutes. Thank you. Um Doug educated me when I came in when you were purchasing the ash property. I had asked him why we couldn't use open space tax to do that.
He explained why and I now I understand how that works. I did not know until recently that that became open space. We had a bond for that. So, was that bond paid off when it became green
acres? Uh, it's a finance question. I couldn't tell you. It was only a couple years ago. I think it was only like 200 and some thousand. So, it was like a little Well, if it wasn't, we have open space tax. Can't that open
space tax now now pay that bond off? I don't believe there's enough in our open space account to pay that off. Okay. We don't collect probably only about 78,000. I think it's up to 85 now. Yeah. Yeah. For open space. But yeah, it is going to
be open space and it's on our Rossi list already. Yeah, I just learned that at your grand opening. Um, Joe asked the main question that I wanted to ask was, "I always read your
notes. I tend not to come to meetings anymore because I get too stressed out." Me, too. Um, same, Steve. I read all the times when you bond something,
you know, we purchase a new vehicle, you do this, you do that. I never see when something's paid off. So, I was happy when Joe asked, and I'm going to ask the question again to make sure I heard right, was how much money
outside of your normal operating expenses, how much money does the township owe? $2.3 million. That's our debt. And is it Debbie or Deborah? Deborah. Either one.
Mr. Simmona works, too. You had mentioned that you find find that to be one of the best ratios that you Yes. have seen. Yes. Okay. I was surprised. Uh the other thing that Joe was the
first one to talk about was the bonding. I'm hoping you guys had already knew that and you were just going to get the best rate that you could get. I respect
the process. Fern had every right and whoever worked on that because it's a law. Mhm. To do the pension petition petition, excuse me. And he had
every right to do that. I don't like the criticism that went towards Fern. I was on the border. I let him put signs on my property. Kate, you didn't ask me this time.
Uh, but what I've heard tonight, I believe I'm going to vote yes to buy the property. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Steve. Anyone else for public comment? Going once, sir.
Mike O'Donnell, 17 Emory Way. Um, I've been on a land use board years ago and I was sitting on a committee like this for a small burrow town in Pennsylvania.
I I I was the oddball out for a big decision on burning our our trash. Turned out that the oddball out was right. But be that as it may. It cost it cost the town too much to
burn it and but they were already locked in. But that being said, uh I respect what the board is doing with the finances. I've only been here for seven years, but I can relate to what you have to go
through and I appreciate the income to debt ratio and all that that's being done. I have a question for a couple questions for whoever put this out. So if anyone
here is responsible, uh the key reasons to vote no, I think I have a couple of them that the the no clear plan. Can anyone suggest to
me that what is the no clear plan? I think we all heard tonight the plan is to resell the property for a profit. So, uh, can anyone explain to me why this has no clear plan?
No, we're not doing that. We're not answering questions. And I won't ask the rest. Mr. Olette was part of the handing out of the flyer. So maybe he could answer your question if he chooses to. As we've gone through this process, more and more things have come forward and
have been brought to light. Uh so you know when things were put together uh by the group uh for the no vote you know uh the clear plan wasn't there and now things have have
changed in looking at you know possibly housing possibly the change in uh swapping lands with the county. uh you know it's it's not concrete but uh more and more information as we've gone
through this process folks asking questions feedback dialogue uh more and more things have come to light okay and real quick hold on one second Fern you were in the same meetings we were in we aren't doing any backdoor
dealings here you've known from Jump Street that we've this has been our intention we we all went out the property looked at it maybe would be something for public works we could retain it for you know a community center we had all the options on the table but you sit in these executive sessions that we all sit in and we you
understand our plan I even asked you what you would like to see happen to it if it goes through and you were on the same page as us you said the exact same thing we would like to see this the age restricted housing so please don't sit here and act like you just found out you know in the last couple weeks that this
was our plan you have been in the same meetings as us. These flyers were just put on the door last weekend, so nothing has changed in the last week, right? Yeah. Go ahead, Kate. Did you want to say anything? No, I I wanted to say the same thing that we all all of us, the five of us up
here have always discussed the same plan. Yeah. That it was never that we were going to keep the property in total. We had hoped to maybe retain the the front portion, get a contractor to develop the back
portion. maybe he could help us develop the front portion for something the residents could use in town uh for their use for, you know, history board, recreation, something. But never uh it was never kept a secret.
It was never kept that we were going to keep it for nothing and never total open space, but to try to use it and to sell it to make a better use of the property. Uh and you knew that all along. We discussed that. We always did.
The plan has always been to to have a better ratable and not to preserve the property, not to keep it industrial. So, what does that leave? It leaves a better ratable in a residential zone. I'm sorry for interrupting you, but I had to clarify that. Go ahead. Thank you. Uh, the next two probably
the the possible environmental risk. I really don't understand where that came from. keeping the property with 700 trees on it and no additional macadam. How can that be an environmental risk as opposed
to a property with 150 160 trailers that are leaking fluids on blacktop that goes towards the creek is not an environmental problem or environmental risk?
Not only that, we had environmental testing done to make sure the site was safe. I'm not sure if that's what they're referencing. I couldn't speak, but we did have environmental testing done and there was no contamination on the property from any of the illegal uses or any of the legal uses. No, I'm just saying yes, but I'm just trying to understand
maybe that's what they were talking about. I couldn't even tell you honestly. So, I I know I'm running out of my time, so No, you're good. Go ahead. Let me just say um the joint use people clarified some things for me
uh but I still don't understand why all the contingencies were made but um so let me just go to one of the signs out on the roads that this is a fact to Lano
what they're missing is that truck traffic will increase that's been covered in In fact, the other day I sat at Bridgeboro Road and Creek Road for one tractor trailer to make that turn and there was a line of cars behind me
and only that tractor trailer made it. That was it. So now you're going to have somebody towing a disabled tractor trailer. That's going to take longer for these turns. The truck noise, that's another thing. 700 trees we covered.
Wildlife will be affected. That's a definite. You cannot black top all that acorage and say wildlife are going to go somewhere else. Air pollution will increase especially next to where the kids are playing and and and if they're cleaning chemicals
that odor is going to go towards the ball fields. We don't need that for our kids. Little or no property tax value. that that that's wrong because we're going to resell the property and just like you
did down at the mansion, you benefit from that from that tax and I'm sure it'll be 30 seconds left. Just go ahead. 30 sec 30 seconds left on your timer. That's just want to let you know. All right. uh the investment for Delano's future at at an at an average
cost and we didn't come up with that but I'm sure it's going to be minimal but tonight I heard that it could possibly be not only this year but could be deferred another year or two depending on what was said with so
is it necessary environmentally responsible as a community not to approve to sale this property. We have to do it because of all the things I mentioned above.
It's not responsible. Thank you. I appreciate your comments. Thank you. I think P is better. I'll just take the Oh, that's your party. So just to to clarify
your uh your question there um the interest we' only need to pay interest for the first three years of the note. So that's what that means. Anyone else? [Music] Uh Zire Carter 19.
Uh, first I just want to thank the committee and the township staff for your time and your effort and your service throughout this process. I know public service can often feel like a thankless job. So, I want to personally express uh my appreciation for the work that you've done, especially when the issues have been this complex and the
emotions are running this high. Um, I before I get into my official remarks, I just like to start with a quick question um to clarify something that was said at last Monday's meeting. And I I don't know, Madam Mayor, maybe Doug, you could answer this. Um, and I'm sort of paraphrasing here, but there was mention
that Criterion uh wouldn't have even considered waiting until the November uh election. And just for my clarity and for those who are here and watching at home, could you just sort of clarify what Criterion
sort of said when we asked them if if the November timeline was uh was a possibility? U Mr. Heman. So, so we negotiated a uh a first amendment to the agreement. The terms of that first amendment are what
was agreeable to both parties. They um obtained their board approvals last year. So, October I think Miss Van Gender said earlier of 24 they got their board approvals.
Um immediately after that we started a negotiation with them to acquire the property and do our due diligence about price. Okay. And then when the as we went through the pro process the bond petition was filed
we notified of the of the bond petition. They could have said we understand the difficulty but we're not waiting. We're going to move forward. They didn't thankfully. and but they were also not willing to wait until
November. They want to move. They either want to move forward because they're just sitting with property that's not making them any money right now, right? They're carrying the cost of it. They've already invested a lot of money into it. So, they're uh they were not they didn't walk away, but they would not wait until
November. We also had the difficulty and they again which made it more difficult to come to an agreement on the first amendment was we we couldn't compensate them anything else because to compensate them anything else we'd have to pass another bond
ordinance and we'd be caught in this circle that would never get out of. So, um, they have a loted the amount of time to see if this is going to get approved by the voters. And if it doesn't, my full expectation is is that they're going to be back on track saying, "We want to
move forward with the development." Okay. So, just just for clarity, we said, "Hey, can you wait till November?" They said, "Not going to happen." Right. Got it. Okay. Thank you. Um, so these past few months have been a lot. I I think many residents, myself included, are looking forward to when this is all
behind us. Uh but before we get there, I just wanted to share sort of why I got involved in the first place. Uh sort of before the signs, before flyers, before brochures, before vote yes or vote no, it just started with something simple and that was making sure every resident
had the chance to vote. Right? That's what pulled me in. not to push a specific outcome uh but to protect the process because democracy isn't about guaranteed results. It's about guaranteed access and it's about people
having a say and that's worth I think standing up for. My personal opinion on this purchase didn't form until we got further through into the process. Specifically when I saw how much resistance there was to simply putting this to a public vote. I mean that
didn't sit right because from my perspective more discussion more participation more voices those aren't threats to democracy that is democracy right and I struggled to understand why that idea was met with
such push back and most residents weren't expressing mistrust in the committee they were asking to be included in a significant decision while I respect that each of you may hold strong opinions about this it felt concerning that when the public said, "Hey, we'd like a say in this." The
response seemed to be, "But but why?" If democracy is functioning as it should be, the answer to that question should always be because it's your right to have one. Now, this has this process been perfect, no. But democracy never is. It's messy. It stirs up debate,
disagreement, passionate views, but it also sparks something else, something positive, and that's engagement, civic conversation, people paying attention. And that's a good thing. An engaged community is a healthy community. And Madame Mayor, I'd like to echo something that you said last week. And we disagree
on many things, but on this we are aligned. Personal attacks, they have no place here. Disagreement is healthy. Disrespect is not. And we can do better. And I believe we are better than that. So regardless of how this vote turns out, I'm going to sleep well knowing
that every resident had the opportunity to speak through their vote. To me, that that is the real win here. Not the outcome, but the process. Because democracy isn't about certainty. It's about choice. And this time, that choice
belongs to the people. That's worth protecting. That's worth being proud of. And that's worth fighting for. So, as we enter this final stretch, I know tensions are high and people are passionate and right. One minute. One minute. You got it. Just out of respect, letting you know
some extra time. Thank you, Vera. Uh, this is a significant vote on July 29th. It's about the future of our town. We've discussed a lot of the issues today, trucking, environment, affordability. It's also about whether people can or
even want to stay in this community that they love and that they call home. That's real. That matters. But what happens on July 29th is just as important as what happens on July 30th. Because once the ballots are counted, Deleno will still be here. Your
neighbors, the ones that you agree with and the ones that you don't, will still be here. These meetings will go on. Life will continue. And as it should. Our differences can make us stronger if we don't let them to divide us. And at the end of the day, we're still one Delano.
And this past weekend's waterfront park ribbon cutting, I think, was a perfect reminder of that. Neighbors coming together, families enjoying the river, kids laughing, coming together to celebrate Deleno. That's the spirit of community of community that makes this
town special. It's not just the views of the Delaware River or even the Denise Pizza or else I I mean I gladly advocate for both of those. It's the people and that's what community looks like and that's what matters. So I'll close with this. I want to thank the committee for their service. I want to thank residents
who stayed engaged, especially those who have even challenged me. Uh no matter where you stand, your voice matters and your vote matters. Decisions are made by those who show up. So, let's show up. Let's speak up. And when the dust
settles, let's remember we still share the same streets, the same school, and the same hopes for our futures. Let's move forward together, not as opponents, but as neighbors, as one Delano. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. So I I understand what you're saying
about democracy and I I appreciate that that's what our government's based on, right? But misleading information is dangerous to democracy and unfortunately there was misinformation given to the public in December um which caused a packed courtroom uh as far as the wrong
finance information. Yeah. So, a decimal point in the wrong place is what you're saying created this whole thing. A decimal point. When I did, everything else was put together by the administration and the township
committee. Those three pages of information were on our website. Those were my notes. And the decimal point, when I looked at it, I said, "Oh, yeah, that doesn't look right." Oh, yeah. I remember back when I was doing math, you're supposed to move the decimal
point over two places. When I did that, again, my worksheet, it was correct. And so, yeah, I was I wrong for thinking that everyone else uh did the same math way I did. Uh
I was incorrect in doing that. Uh it was Mr. Bartley who said, "Hey, Fern, why don't you just take the decimal point out and it'll be right." And uh you know, so thanks, Matt. You know, But you know again I don't think we ever had that conversation but you know if one decimal point created
all this so be it. Um so to finish my statement Fern the point was to finish my statement was you let all the residents know what was going on in December. Okay you let them know you gave them all the information. Yes, your decimal point was off. I'm not focusing on that. My
point is is that you let the residents know what was going on. They came out. They were aware of it. They spoke their their peace. Then we moved forward with the process to empty meetings. No one was here yelling and screaming that this is horrible. What are you doing? In
fact, you voted yes for it in February because there was no outreach. So, you supported the process. That's why we moved forward with it. Even though every resident knew about this in December, where were they at all these meetings that are posted and shared on Facebook and emails and agendas are shared? There
was no outrage. It only became a problem in April. That's my point. I wasn't even going to focus on your decimal point. That's the mute point at this point. My point was the information was shared in December. That's my point. Anybody else for public comment?
No, it's one per person. Yes. Good evening. My name is Charles Gross, 35 Walton weight. Uh given what the last gentleman spoke, I wanted to get up and and just give an opinion as far as what I see is the greatest and best use of the property going forward. If the
township were to take control, and that is the one of redevelopment and what the opportunities exist with the property if that were to take place, I think it would be a win-win situation for uh for the township uh meeting certain obligations they might have uh from a
housing standpoint. um be able to select uh a use that has minimal uh burden to to the township services. Uh could use federal funding so far as a tax credit opportunity to come in and and produce
the property. Um it appeals to community values, preserves uh we could commu uh preserve community character through a design uh of a trusted um and a relationship with a a developer to partner to create a project that beautifies the community. Um it might
opport might provide an opportunity for um our older population to stay in a community they love close to family, friends, and familiar environments. Um uh and uh an issue that we meet we all need to be
cognizant of is the fact of uh the demographic shift. As um our citizens continue to age, um we'll find that baby boomers 65 and older will outnumber um other age groups uh by the year 2050.
and that it's incumbent upon us and our communities to make sure that there's uh an opportunity for uh seniors to um live in their communities. Thank you. Thank you, Chuck. Thank you, Mr. G. So, just to circle back real quick about
the decimal point. I mean, it is a big deal to have a decimal point issue, but I think really what I was more upset about is that the no opposition, you know, Fern, that you're you're supporting saying that there was no plan. I kind of mentioned that earlier
when you knew there has been a plan as you've run the same meetings as us. And then making it seem like we were doing something shady when we've done everything by the letter of the law. No, by excuse me, Vera, you actually excuse me. Excuse me. That you made yourself
Excuse me. Go ahead. Thank you. I'm not going to allow any more outbursts. One more outburst and you're out the door. Go ahead. Call the police to take Making it seem like we were shady uh was it's very upsetting because like I said,
the way we've advertised meetings, the way we've done the process has been to the letter of the law. So, I'm just going to continue and move forward at this point. It's I'm not going to continue to harp on the past, but that's all I have to say about that. Anyone else have any comments before we close the session?
Yeah, I'll just make a quick comment. Um, we with I hear not just in Delano, it seems to be a common sort of refrain that whatever the law is, you should have done more.
And that is a mountain that is never a peak you can never reach. The law requires what it requires and we do everything we can and we do abide by that law. I disagree with the outburst
that says you admitted it. you. That's not what the statement says. And that's not We're talking about a $2,800 issue in the face of a $3.5 million property purchase in a special election that's going to
cost the town $50 to $70,000. The township has the ability to resolve that issue and has done so. that that is not it's very upsetting to me as a
practitioner who is dedicated to upholding the law and to the civility of this town to cast dispersion on the governing body members because they should have done something differently I think is very
unfair. um the the law on that particular issue is not well settled at all. And I think the other point that I would make is that they rely upon me. They rely upon the township clerk.
I know that the mayor has been personally attacked in this process. I'm not on Facebook for my own mental health, but I know that it's out there. I know that Fern has been attacked. Mr. has been attacked. He was he was I I
actually spoke to him after last meeting because he was personally attacked by somebody who came up to the microphone. We're not that's not good. That's not good government. That's not good civility. Acting like somebody has a you know, oh
there must be something shady or there's there's something that's so far from the truth. and this town. The amount of time that these people put in whatever side of the fence they're on to dedicate to this town. Lori Van Gender was in here before. She talked about 29 years of service as a as the
board chair. This town owes a debt of gratitude to her and to Ann who's still sitting in Carl. But but Lori in particular who's now stepped down. 29 years of service and she's being called out on on Facebook or whatever the the method was. That's not right.
Uh, I take a lot of pride in the practice of local government law. There's other areas of law that are more affluent. I do what I do because I love it and I get to work with people who actually care about their town. You add up the hours that they're putting in
here and the amount of quote unquote compensation they get for being governed members, they could do so many other things and and do much better quote unquote for their family. They're here because they love the town and they care about the town. I'm I'm upset about the
animosity that has come out at times about this. I will say 90% of the public comment has been very civil but to say that we have uh you know been doing things behind closed
doors or not being outfront. This this process has been a constant flow of information, of responding to questions, of responding to misinformation, of trying to answer questions, of trying to deal with the
next step in the process. Uh I'm I'm proud of this governing body. I think that they show up repeatedly trying to do the right thing and it's it's a very unfortunate situation when
the the comments that come out start to become personal. That's unfair and it's inappropriate. And the the last thing I'll say is is that when we lose our civility, we lose good government. And unfortunately, I see that happening at
the federal level more and more. Um, every vote is down party lines. There's no communication whatsoever and everything is a black and white and some game uh with personal attacks and and pettiness.
This town, look, all the people in this room showed up tonight because you care about the town. You might not come to the same conclusion when you go into that ballot box and vote, but at least respect each other for showing up.
And that that does not come from I think I get something good out of this. There'd be a lot more well-slept nights up here if something, you know, if they were not sitting up here. This is a sacrifice and they should be respected for that. And I I respect the people who
come out to the meeting and comment and take the time. Um Tuesday's going to come, the votes going to occur and it's my sincere hope that um whatever the result is, everybody respects the outcome. We move towards that whether it
be a yes or no vote and um we we get back to the other business of Delanco Township. Thank you, D. Appreciate that. [Applause] Uh, so I'm going to close this portion
of public comment and I just want to enter one piece of correspondence that was received. Janice, yes, we received a email correspondence um from Sam James. Um, hello, my name is Sam James. I reside at 321 Magnolia Lane
here in town. I'm unable to attend tonight's town hall meeting in person due to scheduling conflict. I want to take a moment to share what I support to share why I support the referendum and we'll be be voting yes for me as simple as tax revenue. Do you want me to
read the whole thing or please that way I um the way I see it? I know that I pay over $7,000 per year in my property taxes and I read the proposed truck repair facility would only generate somewhere in the area to 23 to 25,000 in taxes per year. With that being said, if the
township purchased this property and end up and end up selling it to a developer, which has been mentioned, wouldn't the tax revenue from say 10 to 20 homes far exceed 23 to 25,000 from the truck facility? I also remember that it wasn't very long ago that there was quite a bit
of backlash and opposition to the new warehouses being built. So, my question is, how many of you who are against this referendum were opposed to those warehouses? Thank you for your time and thank you for the me uh to the members of the committee who volunteer their time to be uh to only be second guessed
by those who don't. Respectfully, Samuel James. That's the only correspondence I received for tonight's meeting. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Thank you all for coming and for your comments. I appreciate Hold on one second. Hold on. I just want to thank everyone for their
comments. I know it's a very passionate issue and uh you know we all feel strongly and you know regardless of how you feel you know show up to the uh polls on Tuesday and vote how you feel. stuff. Yes, sir. Uh Janice, Edgewater Park is a drop off
box for uh Yes. Um if I if I may, mayor, just um the there are three ballot drop off locations for those that are voting vote by mail. Um
if you the ballot dropbox locations are uh the Edgewater Park Municipal Building. We do not have one here at Deleno because we do not meet the population requirement. Um the second one is 50 Rancokus Road in Mount Holly. That is the at the county
clerk's building. There is a ballot drop box there. And then also at 301 Harper Drive, Morristown. That is where the superintendent of elections office is. So those are the three um ballot vote by
mail ballot dropbox locations. Vote by mail ballots must be in one of those three dropboxes by 8:00 p.m. the close of the polls on Tuesday, July 29th. It's for those who um are still contemplating
that um maybe voting by mail, vote by mail rather than at the at your polling place. Um, at this time you would have to apply in person at 50 Rancokus Road. Um, you can get your ballot application
here at the municipal building. You can print it offline. A lot of way places to get it. But to get a ballot, a vote by mail ballot, you'll have to take it to 50 Rancokas Road in Mount Holly the county clerk's office um at at this time
as there is um we're on a 7-day countdown. There are statutory guidelines for mailing it at this point. The application, so you can still get an application here, but you would have to take it to 50 Rancokus Road, the county clerk's office to actually hand in your
application and get your ballot. And they do issue the ballots right there as you're standing there when you turn in your application. So, and then of course um same polling locations from same polling locations um with the special when you have special elections
the um municipalities schools have um an option to consolidate. Uh however um the polling locations were not consolidated. So you will vote in the same places that you would vote for a primary or general election. Um we are not consolidating
the polls. uh the time the polls will open at 10:00 a.m. uh uh and close at 8:00 pm. And the reason for the 10:00 a.m. is uh more of a staffing issue. um with summertime and
vacation schedules, the county, you know, was um little, you know, um concerned about staffing at uh 6:00 a.m. and pole workers availability, but uh so it's uh 10:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. on Tuesday, July 29th.
So, if there's any questions uh about vote by mail uh or your polling location, you know, you can please um you know, contact contact the municipal clerk's office. We'll be glad to help. Thank you, Janice. Was there anything else? No, that was it. Anyone else on the committee? Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Motion to adjurnn, please. So moved. Second. All in favor? I I Thank you. Good night. Why do I know the law better than you? I'm not a lawyer.