Welcome to the Thursday, November 20th, 2025 meeting of the Margarite E. Small Building Committee. Please stand and join me in the Pledge of Allegiance. Thank you. Uh next we'll move into work completed. Um as all of you I hope know
by now um on this past Monday we had a special town meeting. Um there was about 15 items on the docket. Um and Dr. has the uh this slideshow meeting. Okay. Um we had a slideshow, we had a
presentation, we had great conversation, I would say on people on both sides of the um of the road. Um you know, questions of, you know, why do we always have to build new? Um you know, do we really need this? And obviously the the
pictures were the answer uh why we need to do this. Um, so, um, on that day, I think it was like a 99.9% I think there was four hands that said no, uh, to the vote. So, we appreciate everyone who got the information out. Uh, we appreciate
everyone uh, who shared information on Facebook uh, or told their friends and we appreciate everyone who showed up um, and voted. Um, so, thank you for everyone for that. Um, the next one was the MEES open house. They had an open house um right after one of the PTO
meetings um where they had a slideshow on the TV as you walked in kind of showing these pictures and more um and then uh there was people available to give tours. We had the total number of
>> uh yeah wish I in hindsight wish we had sort of had some type of a sign in or something but we didn't. Roughly I would say there was between one and two dozen folks that came through. Um, I was touring some folks around, so I wasn't at the entry to greet each individual
person that came through. So, I think I might miss some some folks as they came through, but I sort of passed them in the hallways. I was going one way, they were going the other, but um, I think it was a great idea, which came from this committee to to have the open house to give people the opportunity uh, to see it in, you know, firsthand versus on our
slideshow or pictures. Um, at the end of the slideshow, we had a QR code that links to our website which shows the process so far. You know, where we've been, what are we doing, and all those information. The only thing I'll say about the this is uh don't try to do something for free.
The the QR code for the public doesn't work because I went with the free version and then as soon as people started to use it, I got an email that said, you know, your QR code free trial expired and blah blah blah blah blah. So, um, so I apologize to the public for
anybody who's tried to use it. It is all on the DY web page, uh, under our facilities page. There's a whole page dedicated to the Emmy small uh, building project. That's where it would have brought you. Um, again, trying to do something easy. Um, and there is no such
thing as free lunch is awesome. >> Perfect. Um, and then I'll let Dr. Smith explain the update. based on the enrollment meeting from 11525. >> All right. So, the next thing in the packet one of these items up here. Yeah, you
try. All right. Um, so I think it was at just the last meeting presented the uh enrollment summary from MSBA. I had mentioned that they were going to take some of the enrollment or some of
the feedback from us as a team and bring that back. So, we had an enrollment update meeting and so this is as the title says the updated enrollment projections. Uh we had a meeting early in November. You can see there on the
third of November with MSBA. I'm not going to go through this slide by slide because we did it just at just at the last meeting. But what I will do is highlight uh just one uh distinctive difference between this report and the last report. Uh and it
starts it continues throughout but it starts on the one two three fourth page. They're not numbered so you have to uh actually it's really technically the fifth page but on the fourth page you'll see something very familiar. You'll see the district female trend, district
females 20 to 39 trend. historic birth trends. But then when you go to the next page, oh yeah, sorry that that's I could show it here. Um this this page, right? We've seen this page before. They did um look at some of the numbers based upon some of the information, but what's new
is this next page here where they looked at just Yarmouth only. So again, after some of our conversations, we are a regional district, but this project is a Yarmouth only project, right? So then they've done just the Yarmouth only version. Uh
again they kept the district only information in. And so as you progress through here you'll get to the next slide and you'll see again the district birth to kindergarten relationship the district average survival rates. But then when you move to the next slide
you'll see trying to make this roll or roll just one. You'll see it again just for Yarmouth because again this is a Yarmouth only project. And then when we got to the charts for the uh as sort of students roll through
the district again you see this is the one that we've seen before which is for the entire district but then on the next page you have one just for not only just for Yarmouth but also just specifically for the grade grades span that we're talking about and this is what they will
ultimately use the one of the last two things that Well, I'm jumping ahead, but um one of the last two things that are going to happen is we're going to get a certified road uh enrollment projection from MSBA for this project, which is a project will be designed around, which will be
for a single standalone building and for a potentially combined building and that's it'll be based upon largely based upon this one slide that's up on the screen here. Um so where do they see the Yarmouth K to3 population and I note I
stress K to3 school and we had this conversation during the enrollment this group later further down the road we'll have to because this is a prek to3 building we'll have to have the conversation around what do what what type of preschool programming is going to be in this building what does that
mean for the space and how does that fit into the design etc etc that'll be part of a later but they are projecting and you'll notice only for K to 3 and then the amount of space you need for K to 3 and then we will have to have a separate conversation around where does preschool
fit in and and how do we size appropriately for preschool, but that's that's not part of the way MSBA projects. They don't include preschool in their projections. I'll take question. >> Yeah. So, basic, you know, looking at
this, it says the enrollment now is 624 and they're anticipating an increase of about 22 students to 646. Is that is that how we're reading it? That's what they're going to base the number on. 46 because um as an average over 10
years. Yeah. And they're giving some flexibility for a school up to 646 for combined if we were to end up with a combined school um of up to 646. They're
allowing for um potential space in the combined school. Correct. I think I think that The number was six. Yeah, six. No, the I have it written. I was trying to find it in my notes. I want to say
it's like 635 is is what the the certified combined projected size for the two schools would be in the certifi. But again, I'll have it when they send us the certified enrollment number um
from MSBA. But this is the face enrollment. Um I believe is the I don't I don't wait for clarification. Yeah. No. Yeah. Because those are our actual enrollments as they
projected. >> No, it just look like it's a 10ear average based on the column. >> Yeah. >> It must be the 10 years from 2021 to 2030. I'm assuming it's those 10 years that are in orange are average.
>> Yeah. And that's number that they quoted that this combined school would be based on was 635 to 650. So that's 66 question. So the other significant factor which
changed between the previous version and this version has to do with the uh birth to Kay uh survivor rate. Previously it was 081. This version is 0.85.
So all so what that says is for the the births that are currently in the pipeline adding an extra 4% expected survival rate going forward accounts for about accounts for virtually all of it.
So in between in the period between doing this analysis a month ago and now they have upped the survival rate or the expected percentage of of bursts that are going to translate into future enrollment and that accounts
for most of the change. >> And I think part of that comes too from looking at just the yarn because and if you look at the difference between the um the split in enrollment across our
district over the last 20 years. You see a progression of students from like the percentage of students from Dennis and Yarmouth. The the increased percentage of Yarmouth students in DY versus the like it was a
6040 splitish 20 years ago or 30 years ago. is closer to a 7 to 30, but I'm rounding up and rounding down. >> It's a little bit more complicated than that and I don't want to necessarily take the committee's time to dig into it. Uh perhaps a separate because I am
going to meet with Dr. Gilson a little bit later on to talk about some other things. Uh it turns out that there has been a long-term trend of increasing percentages of students staying or burst the burst to uh enrollment in
kindergarten has been steadily increasing. It had gone down precipitously. So in 19 in the 1990s it was one to one. Uh by the mid uh 2003s I think it was down to 75.
So there's been a huge fluctuation in that trend and it is on an upward trend right now headed back to probably about 90%. And if and if you compare the district one to ours it has our district numbers climbing
um you know by 10 10 students every year. >> That >> and it has our children the K to3 going down >> right. So, so again, if you start if you add an extra 4% on top of
the baseline birth number, it results in a higher projected kindergarten enrollment number. >> Any other comments or questions? Seeing none, uh, is anything else on the enrollment meeting?
>> No, like I said, they'll they'll send a certified enrollment number to us between now and this 26th. Um, well, actually, it really has to happen between now and the beginning of the month because then we have to verify it
and send it back before the 26th of December. >> Mr. Chair, one quick. So, Just to be clear, I mean the these projections are required by the process. Uh you don't get a vote. They they
because it's other people's money, they set the number. Uh so uh separately though, I think our committee should uh also look at other factors as uh and including I think the yearround rent uh the year- round
housing versus the seasonal housing issue. And I would ask the chair to adding that as an agenda item which could be shared with the committee as a whole at a future meeting. >> Acknowledged. Thank you. Um next we have
the next steps. So uh we'll discuss first the feasibility study agreement. >> Yeah. So just really just to keep the committee up to date on what'll happen what are the last um couple items that need to happen uh in order to sort of round out where
we're at. So the uh MSBA has to we get invited into each of the steps, right? So the next step for us to get invited to into is feasibility study. We had to complete as I've mentioned a couple different times, we had to complete multiple steps in the process. Uh the
last two remaining steps are for us to send them a certified version of the vote that occurred on Monday. So, the final vote uh for the the town to commit to the funding for the feasibility study
occurred on Monday night. Uh the town voted to approve those funds. So, now we have to send uh the certified version of that vote from the town clerk's office. I spoke with the town clerk on Monday evening prior to the vote just to get all the ducks in a row. I know she's at
a conference. So she said she'd get that to me by the beginning of next week when she was back. Then I'll send that off to MSBA. U so that's one of the pieces. Uh and then the other piece I mentioned is the enrollment um certification. Once those two um pieces of paperwork largely
that bureaucratic steps unless I get informed by MSBA to something else, but those are the last two things as I understand it that need to be completed on or before the 26th of December. I'm really hoping it's not on the 26th of December. Um, we'll [clears throat] get
uh attend another meeting with MSBA, which uh I'm presuming because we've done everything on schedule on time, everything's been accomplished, then we'll be invited into the feasibility phase and we'll have to sign a feasibility study agreement with MSBA.
Um, which will then move us into the next phase of the project. Um and then we'll be back here because then the committee will be involved in many parts of that next stage including um selection or designing what our um
our bid process will look like for selecting an OPM then a designer what is really kind of the scope of our uh our feasibility study. We have some of that framework some of that's going to be given to us by MSBA what has to be included but we'll have some some voice
um in that process and uh we'll move forward. But those are going to be some of the next some of the next big steps >> and then local vote authorization. >> Yeah, that that again that's just me sending the certification. >> Then end of eligibility period we
discussed would be December >> December 26th. again that's when it officially ends and I'm very hopeful that we don't have the meeting on the 26 I don't think MSBA is going to want to work on 26 either but I
have to I will >> I woke up yes I just really take day on that day >> any questions about the feasibility study the local voter eligibility period >> yes Mr. With respect to the feasibility study
agreement, who are the parties? Who are the signatories to the agreement? >> As I understand it, it's the uh the school committee, the superintendent, and the um MSBA. >> Thank you.
Any other questions? Uh seeing none, uh the discussion, all of the items that are due between now and December 26 are just the the three items that are listed. Um as I said to you at the first meeting, um if there's not a reason to meet, we shouldn't meet.
Um I know December 18th is our next scheduled meeting. Um and I know we have holiday concerts every night that week, plus probably other things going on. So I was going to bring it to the floor about uh canceling that meeting and moving to the
January meeting. Looking for feedback from you have any questions or concerns about cancing December's meeting and waiting until January. Once we start getting into the process, we're going to be meeting more often. So, I'm thinking why we don't have to meet we should not.
Mr. U one of the things that as we head into the feasibility study uh certainly uh those of us who are financially interested are hoping to see a detailed project plan uh timelines u you know uh
cost estimates so that we would have a preliminary budget which would then be used to monitor our cash flow for this particular phase of the project. Um so u I don't know if that uh a draft of
that process would be available for at least some uh initial thoughts by those for uh members of the committee might be more interested in that level of detail uh so that we could by January sort of get the as they say hit the ground running.
>> Yeah, I can work with Dr. Gillson and Dr. to see what we can put together of what their typical form looks like. Um, it's it's going to be a long one and again we don't have all the information. We know that 1.5 million is what's been allotted to us. Obviously, our goal is
not to spend all of that, but as we do the RFP and bid process, you know, that's going to kind of be what's, you know, in mind as we do that. But the plan is to keep everyone informed of every step of the process. Um, you know, because we're all Some of us may be more
financed. Some of us may be more invested because we're a teacher or a parent in the building. Um, but it's important for all of us to know, you know, what the steps are, what we're doing, and, you know, to go through the process together. >> Yeah. I think my only
comment maybe would be by the 18th or let me just say we don't yet have a meeting scheduled with MSBA to know when the invitation is going to occur
and I don't yet know exactly what's going to be required from MSBA even to uh start the feasibility process. So we're also just sort of where my staff's
going to be their time and energy and efforts are going to be utilized are going to be working on building. Currently Dr. Gilson in particular is is kneedeep in the FY27 district budget development process. So I really wouldn't want to have her
working on building something when we don't have um the schematics for lack of a better analogy. MSBA yet. So >> the invitation >> Yeah. Right. So I I think unless something changes between, you know, unless I get an invitation from
MSBA like before Thanksgiving and we have some of that real framework on what it is we're working in, I'd be hesitant to send um you know, Dr. Gilson on what I would largely call theoretical exercise until I know really what the framework is. And we have that, you
know, the next period is a long period. We'll have plenty of time once we get back in July to start to build that to to, you know, I agree. I don't think we should just launch fullheartedly into a feasibility study before we know what it is we're looking to do and what what are the financials, what's our plan, um, and
how's our structure. So, I think I it's again I I want I want to make sure I'm also protecting um, you know, our staff and making sure that they're focused and doing the things they should be doing when they should be doing. >> Mr. Chair, Mr.
Hi, thank you. Dr. Smith, I just have a question that's big picture, but it's related to jumping in in January. Would it be possible you could put this slide up, the one that shows the electrical room, what I like to call Frankenstein's Frankenstein's lab? >> Um, possible you could put that slide
up, please. >> I'm going to need to ask Sam to take back charge of the slide. So basically while we get the slide up um I think for a lot of people at special town meeting seeing seeing that picture was obviously compelling but I'm
actually more interested in the three options that were basically told to the public. And so I guess what I just wanted to ask out loud now because we're probably not going to meet in a month. Is it your understanding and Mr. chairman's understanding that these are the three options that we are pursuing
and if not could you please explain >> these were the options that MSBA has asked us to consider in order to go through this process >> okay so then I guess my follow-up question is are there are we allowed to propose other options as part of this
study >> so as I understand I can have a follow-up conversation with MSBA but these in their general terms are actually really it's it's two big things and
through our conversations with the with the school committee and with the select board it was considering um so the two options were standalone building and consolidation that's from
MSBA's picture right and then through conversations with um Um, so the conversation started with consolidation from MEES towards Station Avenue, right? So an add-on and
per and I've made this I've had said this at select board meetings. I personally don't think that's a good idea, but I we're going to study it and we're going to see um and but then and I was and as we were having those conversations with MSBA, well they said, well that's not the only way you can
consolidate. you know, you can consolidate by closing both on a third site and blah blah blah. So, we brought that conversation back to um again both the committee and the board and everybody was wanted to again bring all the
information available back to the voters. Um so, if we're going to look at other options, I I'd have to talk to the MSBA about what that looks like. I'm glad that there are three options and not two because I think the
more options the better. And it just seeing that up there just reinforced what I said at our very first meeting to every nice person that was here and even those that weren't. I really hope that everybody has a ginormously open mind now that this vote has passed
because there's going to need to be a lot of open-mindedness as we pursue all three of these options. And I would hope that all of us whether we work inside the school currently or not are willing to keep that open mind throughout this next specifically the next four to six
months when it really starts to you know narrow down before we recommend something back to the state to say this is what we actually want to do. And so that's why I wanted to just bring this up now because the funnel is it is at its widest and I would hope that everybody would also keep their own
personal funnel as wide. Thank you Mr. Thank you. And I and that's why we have a group of a variety of different people in this room for that reason to have that input. M. >> Yeah. I on on behalf of the board of
selectman, I'd like to also weigh in in support of Mr. Rubenstein's comments. I will say when this slide came on the screen at the town meeting, it generated some discussion among select board members. Um, and a couple have expressed
some concern that asking me if we're locked into this, where did this come from? So, I know we I I can recall our conversations with the select board, but I think I think there's been some expectation that we'd have a chance to
have more dialogue on this before we're sort of locked into this. I appreciate what what will has stated and I just want to make it clear that this certainly was a concern at the select board meeting at town meeting when the slide came up on the screen.
>> Yeah. I mean I think I've been as clear as possible said it at every public meeting. My position the position of the district has been explore all the options. Present the options to all of the decision makers including the
legislative body which is the meeting floor and folks will make the decision that they think is in the best interest going forward. And but we can't do that if we don't explore what those options are. And what I really please again just one superintendent speaking
here. What I don't want to do is get to a place where 18 months from now, we completed a a feasibility study that didn't look at, you know, what would it cost to add on
to Station Avenue or we didn't look at well, you know, what if you closed that 30 year old Station Avenue building and didn't consider all the costs that are eventually going to come with that building to build a new elementary school, you know, and
whatever on because I'll get I'm going to be the one standing up there when we maybe are eventually asking taxpayers for some type of an ask for a building. I'm going to be the one standing up
there answering all the questions and I don't want to be able to say, "Well, we didn't look at that." I want to be able to say, "Yeah, we did look at that and here's >> I guess my question is there any what specifically do we feel is missing or was not previously discussed?" I think
that would be my biggest question because there was I feel like you know there was always the question of you know renovation which we all would expect that is not a possibility. We all would expect that building a standalone uh building for just mees
somewhere um whether it's in the back of it or somewhere else on town property or school property um consolidation of station avenue has been mentioned numerous times at the station campus um as way back as this building being built. Um and then you know the
consolidation of both schools at a new location. Um again with the discussion of you know station being 30 years. Um was there something that was missed or something that I I I don't know what specifically was a
surprise Mr. Mr. Chairman? No it wasn't that there was anything missed. I just I just wanted to fly a little higher off the ground because it sounds like we're not going to be together for 60 days and given that the Um, and given that the agenda of the meeting, which I understand was more
into the minutia of some of the enrollment data and all this other stuff, I just wanted to fly up a little higher because we started the meeting sort of zoomed in on what's the K to3 birth rate. And that just was fine and I get it and I understand it, but part of our job is also to fly high off the
ground. And believe me, at some point, hopefully, God willing, we'll be picking colors, you know, of fabrics to go in classrooms. Okay, I get all that because I was forced for this building, but we're just not there yet. And I felt like given that the town meeting had
just passed, um notwithstanding what uh select board member forest just said, which I didn't know, um it just felt like the right time to just sort of say, okay, are we is this our general direction of travel? And I just wanted to put it out there in case there were
other people in this room that felt differently or just wanted to reconfirm it before we, you know, go away. days. In other words, so that when we came back in January, we kind of knew in general just sort of where we're going. Thank you.
>> No, and we appreciate again as as Dr. Smith says it at all of our meetings. You know, it's our, you know, we're going to do fiduciary what's right for the town. And every step of the way, there's going to be, you know, people weighing in, whether it's this committee, and then when this committee weighs in going to the school committee
or to the town, and then, you know, once we get to different decision points where money is involved, it it will go back to the town uh or the select board uh for those powers. So, um but yes, I think our goal is to look at everything, everybody, you know, property that, you know, the has, you know, with
discussions with the town administrators and the select board and, you know, our our property manager of different options. You know, once we look at the scope, you know, be a lot more conversations, you know, once we get into the invitation and then work on that
as a followup, sorry, thank you. The big difference between working on this particular school building committee and the previous one um is that the location of the school in question itself is under question. I don't know
how else to say it. So it's a very strange again compared to the previous school committee work this school building committee work um where we were looking for we knew that Madakis and Wixon quickly during the analysis were not salvageable at an econom a at a
economically feasible rate. Um, so then we started looking for independent sites to build this school. The real funky thing here that I have to speak into existence, even though everybody's been nodding, is that the entire property where Emmy Small sits is up in the air.
And so there needs to be some sort of coordination at at a level that goes beyond this particular committee about how option number one is even possible. So I understand that that is maybe further down the road when it comes to
this committee's work, but it is a ginormous 1 million pound gorilla that is going to sit into this committee until the committee has come up with some sort of decision. And some of those some of the that gorilla also isn't sitting in lots of other rooms and lots
of other committees. So there's only going to be so much we can do in this committee with our power whatever that word means in order and specifically as it relates to option number one. So that is something that would have to
be reckoned with um beyond this meeting and lots of other meetings as well. And u for for option number one um one of the steps that we did do was we did file a request with the man madakis utilization muck what what they're called um
notifying them that we were in this process and you know that you know to set aside a possible you know set of acreage in the event that um we were at the point where we were going to build a new building behind somewhere in that
facility. So um you know we have that was one of the first things we did before this committee was even um done so that you know if we get to the point where feasibility studies done and that's an option and that's the option we want to go to that they're aware um is it going to be in their timeline I don't know
they may move quicker than us but it's a it's a hope uh you know with notifying them and their acknowledgement that they're aware of that. Any other questions or comments or feedback in general? >> Cancel December.
>> Yes. So, we we all with all that, are we all okay with uh skipping uh December? We can take a vote. All those in favor say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? Any vote? Perfect. Um consent agenda has the
minutes from 10:16. Does anyone want to move the consent agenda? I'd move the consent agenda. >> All those in favor say I. >> I don't want to say that I nominate myself to be vice chair. Say I volunteer
to be vice chair. >> Okay. >> But other than that, no problem. >> As a so motion to move the consent agenda as amended. >> As amended. Okay. Second. All those in favor say I. I. Any opposed? >> Any abstain? Perfect. Um, and then I I I
did have some feedback about our agenda. I'll be looking to possibly adding more things so that we can have um if anyone wants to discuss possible future topics, we can add it. Um, so we'll look at the agenda moving forward. Um, and then public comment. Was there anyone in the
public looking to speak? Seeing none, anyone want to make hear? None. Does anyone make a final motion? We have a motion to adjurnn. We have a second. All those in favor say I. I. All oppose. All abstains. Thank you for everyone's time. We're very excited of
the future and it's to all of your help for getting us there. So, thank you.