Yeah, I'm the same way. People like, just take notes on your phone. No, no. Alright, we are ready. Okay. So we went through, um, on our end and matched everything up from what you guys brought last time. It made everything rain, um, that we're, you know, okay, good with. I didn't realize that the light purple looked like the gray on here, but that there's a gray and a strikeout is things that we are willing, if it was a thing to also like, get rid of or things that we just, anyway.
And then anything with a light purple. I had left some comments about that. Couldn't recall from, um, last time what we had all discussed or just, just something that we wanted to forward. Okay. Um, go Date, date we're all in agreeance with, Right? So that green indicates the green. Um, the article 26, I know we kind of talked, but we didn't go back to it as far as like a title or a name change. So still have that. Okay. Oh, I was like, what is that key box
here? Um, we had talked, but I don't recall what this Yeah. We had talked about the definitions. Um, what we, what I remember the conversation being was that these very defined in a different place in the contract. I do recall a portion of that, um, emergency, for example, I know wasn't ever defined. So we wanted to use the common Webster dictionary emergency definition. Uh, I'm talking about specifically just to, uh, corrective action grievances. Gotcha. Not okay. Um, grievance. Yes. Corrective action. Yes. So, um, require, we are going to,
if I can oh, polish everything and then turn that to green that we can all agree that that is there. Okay. The, um, the corrective actions also defined in the basic fairness and due process guide Okay. As well. And then the emergency to define and have an example, um, instructor it a lead. So, um, their revision, an instructor is a person assigned by the DPS department, climate and safety to teaches a specific et cetera, or either formal altercations.
Uh, well, okay. So back to emergency. So we wanted to define emergency because it's used, that word is used often in this contract. And by having the common Webster dictionary definition of emergency seems that it would be advantageous as far as examples of an emergency. I don't know if we necessarily have that. Okay. Let us, let us consider that. I, okay. Appreciate bringing that forward. Um, would you guys mind increasing the size to 1 25? Sorry. I'm,
Yeah, you know what, that's great because I am also struggling. Thank you. That's a game changer. Thank you. I have also reached, it's like here to me bit, I, you can't see Reach the age where I had to buy reading glasses and it is just, it is. Oh my gosh. Well, I Just, um, yeah. Progressive. Yeah. And the eye doctor's like, yeah. That's just how it is. High school. So, so thank you Rachel. Because that's a very simple solution that I didn't even think of and I'm like, And you guys are there. And I'm like, yeah. Okay. So, Okay. So we'll come back to emergency.
Um, we could strike through examples if you're with, I I don't, I don't necessarily know if we have to have examples on there. Yeah. I think, I think it's probably better if we don't have examples. I agree. Only because then we end up with a laundry list and if it's not there, people don't think it applies. Yeah. It can be more. When you do put the examples in there, it can actually be limiting. Yeah, you're right. Exactly. Well, it wasn't in the example. So, And then, um, your revision for instructor, so your revision, an instructor is a person assigned
by the DPS Department of Climate and Safety who teaches a specific subject or skill, either in a formal educational setting or practical context, which I we're in complete agreeance with all of that. What you stroke through, uh, what you removed basically was and has the credentials to do so. And I, I know we talked about implementing that more into policy and things like that, but I'm just not certain why we would want to remove has the credentials to do so. Um, 'cause I think it goes back to, um,
particularly if you think about, um, dispatch and when Jenny has a a, a trainee in there, um, there may not be any credentials for that dispatcher to technically be a trainer mm-hmm. Other than maybe they've been here 15 years. So what is the, what is the formal credentialing that has to happen? It's gonna be limiting us. Well, so that would be, that example would be a CTO, so a communications training officer, just like an FTOA field training officer. So those aren't in, those aren't titled instructor,
it's not a communications instructor, it's a communications training officer. Sure. Get plain semantics. I've always heard used the language field training instructor and she has to correct me here. We say field training officer. Oh. Oh, right, right. Because sometimes people see FTO and they think, oh, you're brand new, you're in field, you're a field training officer, so you're field training now, so Oh, right. Where it's the opposite. Yeah. Right. So again, I think it just, it limits the context. I, whether we say, you know, officer or instructor, I think, again, that starts playing semantics and limits us
When we have instructors that are not credentialed. They just teach certain things in the academy that are not credentialed topics. Do we refer to them as instructors, though? They're teaching our report writing people are instructors and they're not credentialed in any, I mean, they're not, they just write good reports. They maybe took some training classes, whatever. Mm-hmm. So let, let me suggest this. I don't know if this works for every thrown out. There're just it, what if we added instructors would be credentialed as appropriate? Because there are some things where you have to be credentialed. I mean, if you're doing
farms work, you have to be credentialed. Correct. Right. I, I would concede to that. Absolutely. I would agree with that because I, I think trying to meet the need, but yeah, there are times where we think an instructor would, you know, like an report writer that necessarily be eventually next. So there's no real credential. Right. But there are certain things. Absolutely. You have to be credentialed. Right. Um, Well, so, okay. So should we, so our, our definition with instructors will be credentialed as appropriate. Yeah. I'll let Ian advise this real quick. Jumped. Oh my God, you guys are gonna see how to sit. It's always nerve wracking too when people watch
you type for whatever I want. What? Right. Nobody's looking. Right. That will avert my eyes. So I, I appreciate the collaboration of this room because in other bargaining sessions when I'm doing this, I don't plug the HT MII don't want anybody see what I'm doing. I wanna be embarrassed by that. We're moving Things around, like in, in putting things in folders, we literally unplugged. And like Last night I was moving things, I was moving things around and she's like, it's not in the folder. And I'm like, will you give me like 10 seconds Please. Remington is definitely used to type into an audience 'cause of our CAD system and you know, it's just, it's live. It's every day, everybody. Mm-hmm. Weather's a strikethrough.
Okay. So then for context, so now we're gonna say Lawrence in the appropriate credential, what was, what were we gonna say? Instructors will be credentialed as appropriate. Okay. I think that's what we credentialed. I Have no idea. Is that, Is that what y'all remember? Yeah. Be credentialed as appropriate. This word Google hates me. I am a fan of the Google. You are? Yes. Oh man. It, But then I think we're gonna go green. Lemme Oh, So then everybody use this a We Can go green that all out there too, right?
Uh, yes. Because they have that you guys also have, or this stuck out 'cause we've talked about it. Yep. One I missed. Is that Not a problem? I mean, this is a lot of work going through all this and I I'm not sure we got this to you in a reasonable amount of time. I think IWI don't know if we got to last starting session or not. Um, I realized I wasn't, I thought we had, Uh, no, but I was able to, we we we can get it done quick. Just Yeah. I set up, I apologize for not giving that to you. I thought we had said it that day, and then I'm like, I don't think Right. And then you realized Wednesday evening and so Yeah.
We appreciate your flexibility. So sorry about that. That's okay. Right after, Uh, so they have strikeout undue hardship. You know, our, I our theory with undo hardship was, again, that's mentioned optin in the contract. I don't know if optins the word, but it's mentioned in the contract. Mm-hmm. And so I think having a clear definition of what undue hardship is, again, this is the, the, the dictionary definition. So my, my only worry about this definition Okay. Is the word significant because that's subjective and that could lead to arguments.
Okay. Um, and significant means difficulty. I mean, we, we can certainly look at that and see if there's other language to Okay. To propose. I'm, I'm just my, that's what catches my fir my immediate night. I look at it, it's actually mentioned that, that word I, new hardship is only mentioned one other Time. Yeah. One other place. Yeah. Did you just do that? Yeah. Um, it's mentioned one other place in context of a law. Yeah. Right. Okay. So actually we will completely remove undue hardship. Okay. Because I believe we removed him
the one place where it was mentioned. So then we can go green on that Professionals because about the reading numbering and some verbiage. Yeah, that's agree. Once we finish, we'll go through and make sure all the numbers line up. And t typically the process is we'll do a final edit and then share it to you where, you know, review the draft and everything before we make a point with you. Do all that shame Still laughing About the, the month of July That free for all month. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.
That one month where no one's under contract. Yeah. Yeah. We, um, it's a Free for all Right. Mm-hmm. I wrote business, but we in agreeance with it the Okay. Grievance procedures. Yep. Okay. Good. Uh, okay, so then, and then they, so, okay, so six one dash three mm-hmm. Would be current one, right? Mm-hmm. Okay. Um, and then to revise their responsible of,
of vessel just verbiage in the contract for us to have with members, um, for this one. So if the union member requests representation by president or co-president or another member in any grievance or corrective action matter, the member must apply president or co by email within 24 hours before and after the meeting notifications list include rather details to confirm proper policy and procedures were followed. So this is more from member end notifying us of those things. If we could put that terminology here in the contract.
Just curious. And like, um, would this be like appropriate for any of your internal documents? I don't know. So like, and, and I, I'll give you an example. Your internal documents typically reference union though? No. Like, whatever, whatever the union documents are, I don't like Right. Thing to put it Bylaws. Your bylaws, your, your standing rules, whatever. I, I know that. I'll just give you an example For DCTA when they file a grievance, if they want to, um, move it past level two to go to like level three, which is gonna be arbitration, um, they,
the contract says they have to notify us by a certain timeline, but they have their own internal process, which is in the contract. 'cause it's, it's their process and they want to be able to change it whenever they want. But I'm assuming, I'm not trying to editorialize why it's there. Of course. Yeah. But what, what their process is, is they have a board that actually reviews it and they typically talk to legal and make sure that it's a viable thing. If it's viable and they, that board agrees, then they move forward. But that's not in the country. That's their own internal process. And so this doesn't have anything to do with the district. And I appreciate you, what, what you're doing here. Mm-hmm.
I, I'm only asking the question, would this be more appropriate for your own documents versus the contract? Because in your own document, I forgot about the biological. Yeah, I appreciate that Lawrence. 'cause that is a, a, a area that we hadn't considered. And I, I agree that that's probably a more appropriate place for it. If so, if that committee, just using that example, doesn't believe there's merit, they they won't agree to take it forward. Yep. And then does the employee have the employees on their own to take it forward? Or it's, it's done. So, so in, in an, an arbitration costs money
and both sides split the cost and it could be anywhere from three to $6,000. So in order to invest that, 'cause the individual doesn't pay at the union pays their half. And so in order to take it for the union wants to make sure that it's a viable case. Got it. And more likely impacting a larger segment of the team rather than an individual. It, it could still be an individual. Just you want to make sure you have a chance to hold. I mean, if, if it, if, I mean, if, if, and I, I'm making a bunch of assumptions here. Yeah, yeah. Typically, like if, if, and I'll just use the district. If lawyers say it's 50 50, we're gonna try to,
you know, work what we can. Yeah. If we feel like it's 90 10 that we're gonna win, then we're not so likely to try to do that sort of thing. Yeah. And if we, if it's like, uh, well we have a little bit of an argument here, but most of the time we're gonna lose, then we're gonna try to, you know, make, make it work. So that, that sort of thing. But it, it's really just about is there not an opportunity? You just don't want, you just don't wanna, you know, waste money. Yeah. You wanna just make a note? I do have a question on this and I don't understand, and it really probably doesn't matter, but just for my clarification, it says the president will co-president will, uh,
be receive an email within 24 hours before and after. Yeah. This is from the member to us. Not after though the meetings. If you want be notified before, why would they notify you after? So that we, because with like recent ones, you know, they still wanna help with stuff, you know, when after, like moving forward, depending on whatever mm-hmm. Doesn't matter to me. I mean, I was just curious why I Yeah. That agree on That. I know when I, when I worked with members on the union side of things, um, anytime that I met, uh, with people, I always did like a debrief within them.
And so that's, that's why, um, Page 12, I like it. And then for the, for, oh my gosh, basic fairness document, you guys, uh, be able to link that for us, but we weren't able to find it. Oh yeah, That's, Yeah. But what article was yeah, 6 4 1 in the old days before links were as common. We used to just like type the website there, which was something I have to type now, just click. It's beautiful. Anything that's referenced that you would like to link to, we're happy to do that. That's not a problem. It's interesting. I was gonna link to Merrim Webster's D dictionary, um, on emergency, but well, everybody can get there.
So I won't, Uh, changed. Apologies. This is supposed to be green to be, No apologies. No, sorry. A lot of colors. We miss everything. Um, okay. Hey, we've got some of our contracts that look like a box. Lucky charm. Okay. Are we, are we agreeing on required versus scheduled? Uh, yes. Sorry. No Problem. So let's, so they wanted to just keep as it was. Yeah. And I don't recall. Alright,
So agree. Okay. I have anything? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Okay. So well then we're just gonna strike that one out. So we, this to keep the verbiage as is for the scheduling for seven six dash one. Um, they had for, oh, we Then change direct. So that should be green, right? Can you go with that? Mm-hmm. It, it was, it was 72 hours, I believe it was. Correct. It was 72 hours. Those 10, we counted five. Exactly. Yep. Yep. Was there, if I highlight the five in agreeance
for the date that work there with five days mm-hmm. Can we just highlight the whole thing that way is Oh, yes. No, not the, just the, the part that's red as well. And then this one. Oh. So you guys have scheduled adjustments for daily needs to be completed with as much advanced notice as recently possible, um, notifications of schedule adjustments will be sent via email in addition to phone said you, um, only the safety professional. I did not make that over our tolerance.
Okay. I, so I would agree with this, But theirs, okay. I don't have it on ours, but we agree with yours. Um, it's 7 6 2 6 3 6 3. Mm-hmm. I'm just chatting. Uh, yes. Certain better. Right? Right. Well, is still No that. Oh, because it's straight through. Okay, gotcha. Work outside. I think we're good. Yes. I think, uh, the change was restricted as well at the very end. Sweet. Thank you.
And it looks like this is just another repeat everyone that's six two. Yeah. I think this was the original proposed language that we had talked about, doesn't agree on other things. Yep. That is what I have on the side that's coming. Um, That is what I hate about the, like one 50 or whatever. I, if you can't see with the comments. Yeah. I'm like, I know I had suffered with question lane. We talked about it, but what was it, you know, if this was brought forward, Broke down a little bit or not. This was one of those, we talked about it, but I don't remember where we, Is this, uh, so the district's revision minimum staffing,
they removed the word requirements. The department of claimant and safety maintains continuous operation 24 hours per day, seven days per week. In an effort to maintain the safest possible environment, the department will strive to have a minimum two qualified armed personnel on duty per shift to ensure operations safety, response ability, organization effectiveness. I, I I like that. Yeah. Good. Okay. Let me copy and paste it to you. Right. And I know we talked about that, the spirit of Yeah.
We just always want that. Yeah. We want to try to strive for that. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. The ideal world. Yes. But we're not held to it. No, I agree with that. There was a statement in the original one that was up there that it would fall to the lowest senior person. Yeah. We just removed all of that. Okay. We can, and we can double check DC but, Uh, we can add that. No, I, I just, I mean, to me, I mean, if the lowest senior person does it this day and they're out the next day, it would be the next lowest person. So I don't wanna bag the lowest person every time. Yes. To be fair. Right. Right. Exactly. So I'm glad you took it out. This is where I'll go with this one. Yep.
Okay. Yep. I think so. This, so that's ingredient then, right? Yeah, I was just, this is a regular, that's current language. Yeah. Might just been read numbering. Oh, really? Number the read number. We, we can Take care of the numbers. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Um, okay. So now we all had agreed for, to remove the Holter. Mm-hmm. Yep. On there is holster mixing. So that could be green, That be a new one underneath there. Right.
So that's great. So then that needs to be dropped down. Yeah. Okay. There we go. Oh, oh, that's fine, Remy, because actually that was all one, but I feel that that could be a new one. Well, we added some other Language to it. Well, there, um, officer with the cost of Repair. Right. We, so then it goes on to say patrol officers are required to furnish their own firearms. We've removed holster magazine pouch. If a patrol officer's firearm is damaged or stolen while on duty and there is no negligence on the part of the officer, the department
shall reimburse the officer. We added for the cost of, or I'm sorry, the district added for the cost of repairs or the replacement cost of the firearm, whichever is deemed most cost effective by the department, which we agreed to that copy That. Okay. Efficient or effective, Whichever. I mean, possible Well, you, the English teachers. So you, you tell me how, What's your preference, those two words in this context? The exact same. I Mean, when I drafted this, I put Efficient, but if you prefer the term effective, which,
Which most cost efficient by the department that that's what you had. That was the language that was draft that I originally drafted. However, in this context, those two words mean the exact same thing. Yes. Okay. Well then we'll leave it the way that you it. Okay. That works for me. That top thing. Yeah. How do I get that to go? What are you trying to get to go with? You Need to get to my, That very top toolbar. Uh, you can actually click on it and drag it to like the left side. Or I want this document to be a reflection
of everyone's ideas. And so, you know, like when it comes to words and terminology, please, if there's something that you feel sounds better, as long, as, long as it's not compromising, meaning please. If, if there's a, uh, if there's some dollar words in here where nickel word will do, please. By all means. That was all for We're good with that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. We're, we're muted. We actually, I don't know that matters
because I think the mute, the owl's not muted, I believe. Oh, yeah, I had Muted here because I have the owl, but I can unmute. No, the, the, the owl's picking up. Okay. Picking it up. So that's good. All right. Now we come back to our uniform foot allowance. Once a year, two 50 safety professionals, uh, district had that completely struck out. Um, chief you and I talked about revising that to one 20 a year. We talked about what that would look like as far as a one time stipend. We didn't necessarily land anywhere though. Yeah.
And I guess a, a couple of things, um, one of my questions was, it does say, I know we're under the patrol officer when it says safety professional, that still is within the, the patrol officer route. Yes. Yes. Uh, correct. So you're right. That should be changed to patrol officer. Okay. And then, um, I I, I guess more about, um, how does that happen? Is that in, in any of the other programs? Is that, is that at the beginning of the year? Is that mid-year? Is it up to my discretion?
How would that look from a, a process with that it being stated in the contract, it's up to your discretion. I mean, I would, I would assume that there'd be some discussion as far as when that would make sense to have that. Um, and then the, it is, um, you know, our uniform footwear are not Air Jordans. Do we need to stipulate that it's uniform footwear or how do we take that? Uh, I, I I, I, I, I'm not, I'm not opposed to it.
I'm looking through kind of next year's budget. I think I'll be okay. Um, I do wanna be equitable as, as, as it is a requirement of what they wear. Um, but when I say we're gonna provide the stipend, where, what, well, we can add to that. So we can, so to address that, we can add something of the nature, uh, that meets, right. That meets department policy. Right. Okay. We could certainly add that. We could stipulate, you know, this stipend will be paid August 1st of every calendar. This one time stipend will be paid for August 1st of every calendar.
Okay. I don't know if I would wanna lock myself into the, into the exact date. That's one, one thing. Okay. But I do wanna make sure that we're not just giving the, the, it has to be uniform directed, uh, our, our policy specific. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, I'm wearing a uniform much more often than not today. And the DC I overheard a conversation where it has to be a publishable toe. Mm-hmm. Well, I kind of looked down and I'm, I've been out of uniform for, you know, uh, a couple months now. 'cause my shoes are not Polish toes. Right.
So we just wanna make sure that I have the flexibility of when it goes out. Um, and it, it would be early again, I'm, I'm, I'm not trying to, I wouldn't wait till the end of the year. Mm. But, um, and then, um, so I, I mean, I, I don't, I'm not, I I'm not opposed to this. I just want to make sure I'm okay with the process. Okay. Let's work it up then. Let's work two 40. Uh, and again, I, I'm, I'm okay with the two 40. You're, you're wearing the same shoe every day. Right. And PE and so, so there's no doubt by January you've worn
that same shoe 40 hours a week every day minimum. Right. You put specials, you put overtime. Yeah. So it's not unconceivable that comes January one. It's Right. It needs to be replaced. So uniform footwear in accordance with department policy. Um, why, why don't, we're, we're gonna have to meet a little bit. Okay. Why don't you let us work on some language with the chief. Okay. For the counter. I, I think conceptually we have some agreement. Yeah. And let's just see if we can get some language that matches that. Okay. Yeah. And then, and then Chief, you also would concur
with having the one time stipend. What I wanted to avoid is $10 per month, for example, which is still good. Right. But having that one time is, we're like, yeah, now I can go out and buy a whole pair of stuff. And I appreciate that, Nick, because I do think that getting that money at one time does increase the chance it's used to buy that phone. Exactly. Okay. Yeah. Well, and again, probably another conversation to have is from these vendors, right? If I can strike a deal to get a very good boot from these vendors, and is that within my preview to say, you know?
Yeah. I don't know. I I haven't really looked at that so much. Um, so like Adamson for example, you're saying if you could, if you could, for example, if Adamson's would sell you a voucher for 200 bucks, but it's worth two 40, is that kind of what that or they say you, you know, we understand that the district has some budgeting limitations come to us. And even though these boots are traditionally one 60, we'll give 'em to you for one 40. Mm mm If you're only coming at it. So, so I, that's kind of where I need to Yeah.
A little bit more conversation. Just a quick question. Do patrol officers usually go to the, to a certain vendor To get these boots? Uh, no. So to answer that, no. Uh, typically we buy our stuff online. Okay. You know, for the most part. Yeah. Um, you know, on cloud is a very popular boot and they make one with a publishable tow for that exact reason. Yeah. Um, OnCloud you can only buy through OnCloud and certain vendors, but Adamson, for example, doesn't offer that under Armors have never varied. They just made a popular duty ot.
Um, so yeah, we typically buy online, but, okay. So Cool. We'll look at that some more. Yeah. Okay. Here's what was, I thought I copied it. Um, It's starting at a two. Yes. Okay. Sorry. I thought I copied this over your phone. Go and All the way down, basically. Uh, yes. Now don't realize how long something is until it's like this, Like all during contract takes a time. Long time. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Grant's there. Sorry. I
agree. This, this is exactly what we guys have for this mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. We had, we had given some additional that we had talked about. I think y'all were good with as far as whatever the effective date is, the salary changes, even if they may be helping for a short Yeah. Well, they're to be moved over the position's pay scale on the effective date, regardless if they're being held to cover their previous role. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Where you copy and that. Yeah. So this, there we go. Cool. And that under Okay. And highlight the whole section
was good, so, perfect. Okay. Okay. Um, yeah. Professionals, yeah. Going through and seeing all the safety professionals that was posted updated last time and to see how much wasn't mm-hmm. Um, bless you. Thank you. You're welcome. Thank In a row the furniture and up the, um, To spank. Right. What do you have somewhere, Um, set that. Oh, we revised it to, just to set it up. Okay.
So, yeah, you folks have completely stricken this out. Uh, talking about the district provided life insurance. We had a revision to a, to a set dollar amount and, and God willing, this will never, ever, ever have to be used. Are there any thoughts on having a set dollar amount warrants? I understand that this is unique and this isn't in other contracts, but other people don't do the type of work we do. No, I, I agree with that, but, um, just a commentary on our current society. There are other people that do die in line of duty without doing the work that you're doing.
Mm-hmm. Back granted that you're, you're, you were the most front and center in this, but teachers office, sports staff, I mean, people, unfortunately we live in a world where there are school shootings. Mm-hmm. Uh, it, I mean, this would theoretically apply to everyone. So it, it is a concern. Yeah. I can appreciate that. I mean, it, it is where there's an insurance company that the union used to use that, um, you know, through their benefits program, they typically would've, would insure first responders and they always provided where if someone was, was killed in the line
of duty, they would cover their bills for like the next year. Mm-hmm. Insurance coverage just to make, you know, help them. Mm-hmm. Everything. They start offering that to teachers as well because Mm. Right. That just 'cause the weirdness of our times. Right. That's, that, That's, I think, so that brings up a good point, Lawrence. Um, we can add this to the bylaws and this can maybe be an internal union thing where the union will cover a certain dollar amount. So we're good to strike that through. And then the bylaws is just our own internal comment. Yeah. And then we could go through on that. I think that's, uh, mighty Adam, all of your union to think about
It. That is very mm-hmm. Um, because there are some unions that, that wouldn't, That wouldn't consider that. Um, not, not because they don't want to, but because they financially can't. Right. And Which is where I need to look at ours. We need to look at ours. Right. To make sure that we can make good on something that we say So. Right. Um, something to help anything but yeah. Mm-hmm. Okay. Um, Okay, so 14 four, here's what they had. Oh, this is where we, this is where we had the absent with the weekend.
What's up? So this was on, on your end. The first sentence was Probably talking about striking that first sentence altogether. Right. Which is what, so on theirs, it is completely drunk here. You want That's okay. This one Is that Good history. Mm-hmm. Because it's already in the, um, employee me. This was because this was in the employee handbook, right. Words. Yeah. Noticed we, we thought it was getting confusing because absent in four days and three days, and it also makes it seem like if you're taking a sick leave, there's like a notice or a signal.
That's what we wanted to avoid. Correct. Three, two, remove 14. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Or, or not remove 14th floor. Oh, revised the changes. Do you have the revisions? I did get that one. Um, um, when it came to mental health days of maybe, um, a whelmed. So like mental health, putting something as mental health. Yeah. I have having, you have to go get therapist and things like that, but just maybe a verbiage change that would wellness day as an additional
option to their author. Yeah. Um, again, this is something that we don't offer to any other bargaining unit and this would be a pain reaction. And that, that is, that's Lawrence's way of saying that's a hard no. Yeah. I mean, it, it's, well, I mean the, the fact matter though is the sick days can be used for this. Right. And so that, that's also, we believe it's covered here. The sick leave, which in our manual sick leave may be used for to, I think it literally sets to include mental health
And, um, our, In the employee bank. But the DPS employee. Yeah. Personal. So two, yeah. We'll strike through all of that. And in the employment practice manual, and the bullet says six sick leave fees, absences when the first one is the employee has a mental or physical illness injury or health conditions. Okay. Right. Yeah. So it doesn't actually use the word that, yeah, This was already being done for the, to use the sick leave hours. Yep. Total. Because true pay recognizes 0.5. Yes. Hmm. Yeah. So that's in agreements. That's what we had.
But then, okay. So right now burning unit members will be providing more personal leave days each year. Our current contract has two personal leave days. Each year we're looking for four. Willing to settle that three, lemme just start it out there. Um, unfortunately, this is also a hard note from us. Mm. We've, we've talked about this with other bargain units and when, um, I brought this four advance always, you know, other bargaining units have four or more. Actually, uh, no one has more than four. Okay.
And two bargain units. Well, three have three have four. Okay. Three outta 10. Correct. So 30% have four. DCTA has four DSLA has four. Uh, food service or para, one of the, I think it's, it's food service has four. But the reason they have four is because they, in lieu of a salary increase, they use that to get extra days. They like pay for the days because I mean, the problem is the days have a cost. And so they use that to get more days.
And they used to be called negotiated days because of that, but they're treated the exact same as personal. So just to make it easier within the system, instead of having two separate categories of days, they're combined to personal days. But that's how they got the extra. It wasn't because they bargained it was that they paid for it with the increase. It is also unique that they have the shortest work calendar with the most amount of personal days. Our work calendar is 0, 0 0. So it's 24 7, 365. It doesn't feel unreasonable to ask for more personal days. I get that. Um, even though they have a shorter work calendar,
they have two personal days and they paid for the other two, they basically bought them that cost. Explain to me how that would work. So let's say, and I'm just round numbers 100%. Let's say the increase is is 2%. That costs 1%. So then they increase the level 1%. Gotcha. How was that cost determined? Be? Because we have 31 members. We don't have DCTA has 10,005 I what does DCTA have about 5,500. So 5,500 members. So that cost is probably pretty great versus 31 people.
Um, overall cost. Mm-hmm. Like the aggregate cost wouldn't be as much as like a larger union like that. However, the percentage cost is still gonna be around April because Right. I see what you're saying. Like your overall payroll isn't as much, but percentage wise it is. So percentage. Right. Um, and then other collective bargaining units have three personal these days. No one has three. It's either two or four. It's either two or four. And so you're saying of the 10, there's only 30% three that have four and one of 'em was, was purchased and then central office, most of central office has two.
Mm. There are, uh, there are employees who manage, you have to manage a number of other employees. And those, those groups gives mostly the majority of central has two. I know that's a bit of an impasse, right? If you say it's a hard No, and I'm saying it's a hard Yes. I don't know what we do there, Lord. Not sure. But okay. We'll come back to it. So Think you guys made it smaller again for somehow we, We've been in here. Exactly. One hour quick five minute break. Just tease the restroom. Okay. Looking at the top, it just looks smaller. Oh,
I do coffee and water. Just gallons of coffee and water every morning. Stuff For minute. Yeah. Are we open to talking about bereavement leave? Um, bereavement is also covered used. I mean, in, in the, in the con in the employment practice manual, it talks about that. Um, we, we certainly allow bereavement leave. Mm-hmm. Um, in order for it to be paid, you would use your, it can be any combination of sick leave, vacation, personal time being used for bereavement leave as far as covering the pay form. Mm-hmm. If all those, if all those things are exhausted,
then you still are allowed, bereavement would be unbank can sick leave bank be used for bereavement pay going for the individuals under sick leave bank only applies there. So even if your spouse's cancer, God forbid, unfortunately. Unfortunately. But if you as an employee have answer, sorry about that. No, no. The good thing about so many other Know, oh no. Yeah, I recognize. And so because all of the other leave is lumped into, you know, like, because you can use your sick leave for so many different things mm-hmm. When you have that illness,
you can tap into that sick leave. Mm-hmm. Right. Right. So It's really, it's really helpful for the, for those things be because bereavement and, and the, and those things you are using the sick leave for. Right. And I, I can see you as someone who, you know, all my family's out of state. Mm-hmm. You know, and so if I, if I have a loss in, in my family, for example, I can see why you, you would want the bereavement days.
So I I totally get it. Right. Um, you know, uh, just keep it, just also keep in mind that that sick bank exists partially for that reason. Mm-hmm. Uh, also just note the bereavement, that's for all employees across the district. Yes. Right. That's it. The universal thing across the district. I got that. Okay. We'll strike through. We'll go green. I, We appreciate your concession on that.
Yeah, absolutely. I dunno if I wanna sneeze because we don't throw the cold air in here or No. I, I like coming along here today. I had, someone was cold yesterday because they had it at eight. And so I lowered, it's like only one slide. It's like the cold air maybe like holds it in. Right. I got to another one. Tan verbiage to talent altering. We, um, strike you on hours. Would you like me to put that green? Sure. If not, Yeah, I have the same as yes.
Yep. So that's been, Keep that same verbiage as original for the meeting. Uh, You hear that? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's great. So we're I have a question about dues. How does that work? I know it's something with our end as far as like with the amount, but if we were to increase it, what, what, what would we do with that? Or how would we get it to you guys to say, Hey, this is going from this to this now? Yeah. Like how would we inform payroll that our union dues have increased? Or is it literally we inform payroll
that our union dues have increased? Exactly. I mean, just like the general payroll box or Kathleen Maow with the director of payroll appropriate or Snap and Lester the senior manager over there. Okay. And, um, it would also probably be good just to ask Bernie only because she's done that for years as far as who she contacts and Gotcha. You're right. Um, also do contracts typically list what the dues amount is? No. Okay. Right. For that reason, I don't want Yeah, no, be because if, if we're having it in the contract, then we have to agree to changes.
And that's, that's your business seminars? I just asking. Well, No. Yeah. Which it is interesting that we list the service charge go down a little bit. 17 dash four that because it goes, it comes to us. Yeah. Oh, okay. Point 10 something. I think 10. Oh, Okay. I see 10 cents. Mm-hmm. If you see, if you see on the paycheck, it's, it has union dues and then it has like a 5 cent and that's the service charge. I think I've seen that. Yeah. But it's 10 cents a month. So it, it offsets the cost. So that way when we do all the work to Right. Money to you, it's covered. Correct. Yep.
Um, we all agreed with the held Emily, unless otherwise agreed. Sorry. Um, I know I had a question of do we change it to three year? All agree here for the conversation? Bernie, you wanted to ask she Under or She, go ahead, Bernie. Oh, okay. Uh, I wanted to answer the question on dues. That is, uh, something that I will do for you. Okay. So we will talk about that later. But basically it's just what I, I will explain that and how it works and everything and the 5 cents and stuff like that. Okay. So, okay,
Cool. Great. Thank you. Very. Okay. Thank you. We'll talk about that later. Okay. All right. So yeah, that's our responsibility. Okay. Hours that theirs. Correct. Uh, so the district longevity, the district shall provide a longevity payment of $1,500 annually to all employees with 15 consecutive years of service by June 1st of each calendar year. That is your proposal. Ours was looking for lower time on job, so to speak. I think Lawrence, you were pretty, pretty hard at 15 is the number, huh? Yeah. This is what, and this is, this is the same contract language that we're
standardizing across, uh, everyone is 15 years. Um, there's a, there's a couple contracts that have some legacy language, slightly different. I think we talked about that last time, where it's, it's less than this. Like with $600, then it goes up to 1200, right? Oh yeah. We just, yeah. And that sort of thing. But when we've, when barn units have asked to change that, this is the language we go to and if we can't agree to this, then we just keep it as is. Mm. Mm-hmm. And so, I mean, really in this system compared to that, that type of system,
this benefits people earlier on. And then if you're gonna stay, you know, in that system, like one of the other units, once you get over 27 years, the old system's better. But this house people earlier on now, um, I, I did, I did have a conversation with my finance about this. And really they're like you or your group to give what we've given to other barn units. They're, they're very big on being, I, I do appreciate this about finances. They're very big about being fair and consistent. Like if we, if we do this for one group, we should try to do it to the other. Mm. Mm-hmm. But we, you know, we need to be the same parameters across the board.
Yeah. I, I get that. Well, and Ty, typically, I mean we're, we, we've changed over the last 20 years of, we don't see that longevity, at least in kind of the public safety side, that this is your career for 25, 30 years. So Right. You're, you're having to wait 30 years to get some of those benefits when you may not actually plan to be here that long. Right. So I I think it's good 'cause it does give it early on. Yeah. Or just something like, um, he's obviously not there anymore, but I know DSST at one point they're doing it
and I probably have the years wrong. So this, this is what I'm going to assume that they're doing. But, um, returning staff used to get yearly bonuses and then they changed it to, um, after two years you get a bonus and then three more years after that, then you would then get bonus. You know, kind of like broke it out. And I think ours would been the two years, as you said, of just people staying trying to get more of the longevity within our department to keep everybody. Mm-hmm. So a little more something Agreed. One then Lawrence, you had talked about this
isn't a one-time payment. This is split up by 24 a periods typ typically yes. Okay. We, we could look at if it's possible to do, to do it is a one-time payment if that's more, more, well, the way that the district wording was, the district shall provide a longevity d payment of $1,500 annually. To me, that sounds like a one-time payment to all employees with 15 consecutive years of service by June 1st of each calendar year. Is the payment by June 1st of each calendar year?
No, that's, or the 15th year by June 1st of each? Yeah. The 15. Okay. The 15 years by June 1st of each year. Then if that's the case, then we pay it out. Um, it says $1,500 annually. So as long as we get the $1,500 over the course, you know, for that year, calendar year though, that could be fiscal year or school year. The school year per pay. Okay. Typically it's during the school year. And, um, I, I'm not sure. I'm not sure what the, uh, we, well, I'll give you a long story.
Oh, okay. We got 20, sorry. We've got burritos. Yeah, that's, we, we used to, we used to pay the Saturn when sell. Right. And then we converted to Oracle. What what we were told was that, um, if we're giving something to the entire bargaining unit in order to automate the system, we can then do it as, as a one lump sum. If we're only giving it to a certain population within the bargaining unit, ah, then we had to divide it up over the, the payment. And that may, that may have since changed, but I don't know that to be a fact. That's why Yeah, I gotcha. Make sense. Right, right. Because there's certain members within that unit
that don't qualify for it. Right. But, um, what, what we have done is we haven't made it over the full con calendar year, just the, the school year. Because there's, you know, as you've mentioned earlier, there's fifth calendars. Mm-hmm. So people who work solely on the school year calendar wanna make sure that they get it. And we don't, we don't wanna have a different process for everybody. Mm-hmm. Yep. We do it on that same timeframe for everybody. Okay. Yeah. That makes sense. Um, I have a question. I don't know if this is still ongoing 'cause I know it was an incentive just to bring people, I know transportation still does it and then everybody that had been here was some time was old.
Can I get something for new hires? Are we on our end? And I'm trying not to answer, I just can't recall right now. Giving like a, the signing bonus. Yes. However, So it, um, so what happened is we paused it. I asked, uh, to pause it. Okay. Um, but what happened is it was still up on our website and so there was a lot of people who were Oh. Um, hired under it. So we're actually trying to finalize that this week. So everybody that was hired under that, we'll get that signing bonus. Um, but under the website there were, um,
there were other categories that were, um, paused, which was signing bonus, uh, retention. And I thought there was a third. Um, I needed to better understand our budget before I could continue to allocate that. I do think you'll see that coming back from our perspective, um, because I do think it's, it's an incentive. And, and we all know, uh, I'm concerned we got 25 vacancies. I am concerned. Um, and that's just csso. Where's that candidate pull that 'cause we're missing it and we're gonna need to attract them.
I was just say even just like in that if there are parameters of still give a newbie or someone interested in incentive to hire, um, I don't know what the amount was, so I'm just pretend it's $500. I don't know. Yeah. I think it was, it Was Okay. Five. So maybe instead of giving them five, maybe two 50, and then us who've been here, I don't know, three years, I'm just gonna put a number out, they can get a bonus Yeah. Of that or something. 'cause that is when the C Oh, well they get it coming on. But what about us here to just Yeah. Keep, I
Don't know. I agree. I I think what it was, and, and I'm gonna speak specifically to the CSOs, they had that they had the sign on bonus. Mm-hmm. And then they had a, um, a uh, what did you just say? Not longevity. Like a retention bonus. Yeah. Retention stipend. So if, if they came back August of the next school year mm-hmm. Um, they would get another, uh, they would get another 500. So it was a thousand dollars for them to Okay. Spend a year with us mm-hmm. And then come back and spend a year. Um, yeah. It was basically, it was basically a signing bonus. You got half it up front and then other half after you complet.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I, I do think there's, I I, from what I said, I do think there's some work that we need to do there just 'cause we're, we're struggling right now. Clearly I wouldn't want to be held to it. Yeah. No. Just maybe a split to grab, but then a split to keep. Yep. But I agree. Yeah. And, and I, I do, I do wanna be clear what, what the chief's talking about there is about the, about his budget. This longevity money is new money that's gonna be inputted into the budget to cover. Oh. That, that's the big difference here. Yeah. Alright.
So I am going to send Remington the district's verbiage on longevity and we will accept it. Okay. Thank you. Yeah. All right. So then the study for the instructor pay, I know we talked about putting that into policy. Different things. I mean, to just be very blunt, this ensures that it does happen in a timely fashion. I don't disagree. It just, it locks me into some, some unknowns. Yeah. And then that's really the, the biggest challenge we're going right back
to the same conversation about mm-hmm. Um, longevity play, those, you know, come right out of my budget and having to decide. Um, you know, what we can do is, it's just my biggest concern. It Yeah. And I think it's not an unknown though. So longevity, for example, it's, it's basic math. Okay. Next year this particular person may qualify for this bonus. Currently there's nobody. Hmm. Maybe there's a few. I I was just trying to think of
who actually qualifies for it. Now it's a very small math. 'cause again, we only have 31 members. Longevity. What's that? Longevity. Yeah. Three people that qualify currently three people would qualify currently. Okay. So that's relatively easy to budget. And then to know, okay, next year I might possibly have three more or two more, or whatever the case may be. And I think the same goes with instructor. I think that's why we really wanted to define what an instructor was so that that was clear to say. Yeah. A guy who stepped in and and taught report writing for two hours may or may not meet the definition of instructor.
Yeah. But should be compensated Right. From where I sit should be compensated. And I'm not sure I want to get locked into that. Right. On your contract, we also did talk about adding the words full skills instructors or something of that nature, because we do recognize that it would be different to help out in radio class. I love helping out in radio class. I don't expect anything from that. And I don't think most people do. But when we're full skills, subject matter experts, instructors, but when those skills that you just taught on mm-hmm. Bring us into litigation mm-hmm. You're on the stand. Right.
And you receive no compensation for that added knowledge that you brought to this group. But yet now you're gonna have to defend that training on the stand. So that's what I'm trying to avoid. Right. Wait, I don't think I'm involved with that. You say, well, I'll do radio. Okay. Okay. And I don't need any extra compensation. That employee now has a litigation against us and you were specifically the trainer and you have a huge component in that litigation. 'cause you are now gonna be on the stand Right. Testifying to your ability to teach them proper radio protocols.
And if you, so you are opening yourself. I can say, yeah, anybody can volunteer to be a, a trainer from where I sit, I would want to be very judicious in that because there's added, there's added, uh, stress. There's added, you know, challenges with just saying, yeah, just come in and teach 'em how to write a report. Just teach 'em how to use the radio. There needs to be, uh, it needs to be a process because again, if it happens and we're on the stand and we have training records out, and this employee is saying, well, I was never taught that.
Mm-hmm. Well, you, you are now having to stand on that and, and defend what we did in that class. So I don't want just anybody to be in those rooms giving a radio class. Mm-hmm. I wanna make sure that they've met a criteria. Right. And that we are compensating 'em for have that criteria. Um, and having them a clear understanding that as a trainer we carry liability. And that, I think you get that we 100%. I agree with everything that you have just said. So I think we're on the exact same page with that.
The, the, the, the potential for liability is so great, right? Yes. So why would you just come in and say, I'll do it. I don't need compensation. Right. Yes. Exactly. That's why I'm saying that we need to recognize that and have the stipend for the entire, and I, and I don't disagree, but that will be on my, and and I think that's in my preview and not in the contract That's in policy. And not necessarily in the contract. Yeah. Because you're gonna be able, so that might be the one area where we differ. You're gonna be able to dictate what that is by, by contract, where that's true.
I need to dictate it in policy. Hmm. Those have, I think, more operational impacts, um, to the organization than, um, kind of the, the bargaining aspect of the contract. Right. And it also could impact the budget usually. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well, I guess that's to the point as well, is if it's in the contract, it can impact the budget. But it's a, it's a, no, you can't not do it. Where if it's in policy, you can say, well, you know what I'm not gonna do that. And that's a, that's a fair point. Yeah.
What I'm, what I'm trying to do is to make sure we have a solid policy in place mm-hmm. That recognizes you meet a level of, you're not a certified telecommunication officer, but you are at a level where we're feel comfortable training you. Yeah. And I think we do, we have trainers and then we have instructors. And so we do have all these different levels. Um, Can I ask a clarifying question? 'cause I'm still absolutely, I'm still relatively new to my position. Mm-hmm. And I'm still learning the nature of your jobs. Mm-hmm. And what you do when you have instructors, are they for specific things or, yes.
Mm-hmm. Is it like an instructor is an instructor and that's their position? Or is it for like, specific I'm teaching you this specific thing at this specific time. Great question. So, and I think that kind of goes a little bit back to what Lawrence said. Um, firearms driving and, um, PT arrest, arrest control, arrest control, response to resistance stuff. Those are all have to meet a state level certification to be a trainer. So we want to take that group and we want to acknowledge that they are a certified state of Colorado trainer in that lyric area of expertise.
Mm-hmm. Um, but then we have an area where we have field training officers. They may not reach that level of a state certification, but they have attended a, how to be a great trainer, how to be a great mentor, how to treat that younger officer appropriately and get them through the training protocol so they can now be a solo officer. So that would kind of be the, the second tier and the, the third tier would be kind of what we talked about. Um, you are the best English, uh, campus safety officer on the team. We are gonna bring you into the academy
and you're gonna teach report writing. You don't really need any other certification to be that report writer teacher, but we wanna compensate you as an instructor for your time that you're in the academy. Well, The, the reason I'm asking is because kind of the way that this is broadly written as a, as a stipend, when you do this as a, as a monthly stipend as a a $175 per month. Um, it, yes, it, yes, you can budget that and you can make it part of the budget.
But if it's someone doing a, a specific thing at a specific time, if budgetary constraints are the concern, then maybe it might be worthwhile to, you know, I, first off, let me say that compensation is really not my, my role. Yeah. So I don't know what mm-hmm. What we can do. But it might be worth looking into how we can compensate, maybe not at a monthly stipend, but maybe another, another way. Like maybe it's a Mm-hmm. Maybe
it's some other rate. I don't, I don't know. Like I said, budget's not really my call, but, um, yeah, It was a question I had as well as far as how often is somebody who's an instructor doing the instruction? 'cause this is a monthly stipend versus they teach it once or, you know, during the summer training thing. Like how does that all work really is throughout the year. Yeah. And it's really hit or miss up and down. Um, I know that's off top. Keep kind of keeping with the report writing. If we have A-A-A-A-A-C-S-O who's struggling out in the field, our plan is to pull them in
and give 'em a little bit more intensive training here to get them to be a better report writer. Mm-hmm. So I think it's more confusion. Confusion. If we are saying on, again, off again on again, off again, I would like it to be consistent at least for a, you know, half a year or a full year. Yeah. And I think, I think there is something to be said for when you are instructing that is paid at a different rate, that there's, in true pay, it's very easy to put different rates and to put an instructor. So for this eight hour block you were instructing
and you're paid at this rate. And I would be willing to concede something to the contract to say as, as opposed to stipend for instructor pay, instructor pay, I, I'm not, I'm not sure how to word it, but something to recognize that there would be a different hourly rate when you are operating as an instructor. And, and I'm not sure how feasible this is with, with the system, what I'm hearing you talk about is like a, an hourly differential for when you're doing the training. Correct. Or a different hourly rate. So for example, if I work an off-duty,
that's an off-duty hourly rate Yep. Versus my normal hourly rate. Um, so next Wednesday, Thursday, when I'm at the range all day, that rate could then apply to that. So you went that, that granular where that they train that week, they get the stipend that week, they get the compensation that week. Right. Whatever it is, maybe. And then they don't get it anyone other time of the year. Right. Maybe, I don't know. I want something Right. Yeah, I can, I can understand you wanna be recognized for the additional effort and the expertise and,
And to be clear, not me. Right, right. When I say you, I mean the collective you Yes. Okay. Right. Right. Yes. Um, uh, I, I can to, I can totally understand it and see that mm-hmm. Aspect, um, like I said, as far as like me, myself, it's, we have a whole compensation Yeah. Right. Department and people that we have to consult in. Yeah. A department we have to consult. So it's not my call, You know, if, if you're a, and maybe this is a very, very poor, poor example, but if you're a mentor teacher, are you, how, how are, and you're kind of required to help a, a new teacher.
Where is that, how is that spelled out? Or is it de depends on the situation. I'll, I'll give two. If you're a, if you're a cooperating teacher for a student teacher, then it's a small amount of compensation you get from the university. It's not through DPS, it's the school itself. Um, there are people called new teacher ambassadors where they would kind of help mentor new teachers, meet with them, you know, they're new, the building kind of show 'em the ropes and stuff and they get a, a yearly stipend for, from the district at that point. Got it. And that covers them regardless of whether they may
spend 70 hours with that. That's correct. Teacher, or four, four hours. Mm-hmm. And it is, it is, it's just an annual stipend. Yeah. And as I'm talking more about this, I, this really isn't going to apply to very many union members either. So obviously the CSOs are part of our union. The majority of fo skill instructors are not union members because they're, you know, leadership. Um, this really applies to very few. And I, I think the challenge is, is, is, is is exactly just that we have traditionally have a lot
of supervisors filling roles of instructors in that relationship be kind of pushed down. Hmm. Um, so I, I, I mean I I agree with that. It, it may not, uh, involve all of it, but what about non-members? That's again, why I think it should be in department policy. So they are getting that compensation right as well. Right. That's true. As, as I'm trying to wrap my head around this issue and just making sure that, you know, understand and try to give any guidance I can.
Um, I, I heard the chief mention different levels as far as someone who has the certification from the state, somebody who, um, was like a, a field training officer, and then we had like the more of like the specific class skills Yep. Type, type situation. Yeah. There. Yeah. With, in your, in your mind union mm-hmm. Just, just asking in your, your too chief, like should all those groups, assuming there's pay, I don't know, there is, we're just throwing this out there, trying to try
to understand better should each of those groups pay the same amount or should it be differentiated by your group? I don't know. 'cause I've thought a lot about that as well. And so you're right. So, uh, CPR for example, you're certified by the American Red Cross, American Heart Associ, American Heart Association. And that's A-A-C-P-R research is a four hour class, or is it two? Uh, four. Four. Okay. Uh, first aid that, right. So then we do have some things like that where that's not a state certification, but that's an industry standard certification to be a CPR instructor. Um, pepper spray is the same type of thing. That's not necessarily a state certification. That's not through Colorado Post.
That's through Saber Red or, or Yeah, exactly. So I don't know. It doesn't help much. But yeah, I, I, yeah, again, I think it's the, the intent is to recognize the added work, kind of the added, you know, liability that comes with it. Mm-hmm. Um, I, again, I think we're both in agreement that we need to do it. I just think it mm-hmm. Sits better with me if it's in on our side, um, you know, union, non-union,
um, leadership, teaching the class, whatnot. Just trying to, trying to have that balance. Yeah. I can appreciate that. I recall part of the ins of the job description for supervisors is to instruct. Yeah. So that's kind of partly what, you know, they're supposed to do for lack of better term. And, and so, and again, I can appreciate recognizing all instructors being compensated for it, but obviously I'm out for my numbers to be very blunt.
Right. I'm representing my Sure. And so, again, this, this locks it in. This gets it started. I'm willing to negotiate dollar amounts. I'm willing to negotiate different ways that we do it, whether it's hourly, but it needs to happen. And we've been talking about it happening for years, and it hasn't, and I don't mean that with you chief, I mean, in general Sure. This department has talked about it. So Yeah. Let's come back to it. And I think it was rich conversation. I'm not sure that we're yet in full agreement or in, in agreement at all.
But I think it does, the con, the context provided was helpful and we will talk about that some more. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for the feedback and conversation around it. Yeah. It helps me learn about your position and how things work. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Absolutely. Um, and, and then actually to that point, you know, we do compensate, FTOs build training officers and communication training officers are compensated with the ones X state or Yeah. We split the, there's a dollar amount that's associated to a trainee.
Right. And if three people had a role in that one trainee, those three people would split that $1 amount, if that makes any sense at all. I didn't explain that kind of part. No, that's exactly how you spent it. And I think it's kind of a, again, it just to me that that right there just doesn't sit right. Yeah. You know, we're, we're allocating a dollar amount for the employee, takes nothing into account on the, on the, the credentials and the mm-hmm. Teaching capability of the person who's getting of the person doing it. Right. Yeah. But I think I bring that up to say that
that's already in place and that's happening and that's great. And then I, again, we still just have no compensation for instructor. Yeah. So I, I appreciate that you agree that that needs to happen and we just need to figure it out. Right. Just figure out a way to make it happen. Um, so I think they had struck out 18 five, weren't we in agreeance with that 18? Or were, were we questioning that dog? That was the question. So I think 18 four and five are kind of Up in the air a little bit still. Okay. Yeah. I'm good with that. But as far as the 18 6 4 a special event,
compensation rights, were all integrated to strike. Yeah. We work. So we can put that green. And I think following up a little bit, chief with that is, um, you were going to look a little bit more at, and, and correct me if I'm wrong because I'm working off of memory, we had talked about the special event rate and about looking at that in, in reference to what DPD does or how many of them versus us or you know, now with our brand new system, is that still something that you're kinda looking at or, um, you know, you,
you had talked about pricing us out, which I agree. We don't want to say we're a hundred dollars now that prices us out. It seems like those ch those rates were changed right when I got here. Mm-hmm. And so, um, I wasn't prepared to tackle them at this point. Okay. Um, again, I like the way it is, it's set up for three tiers mm-hmm. Supervisor tier, officer tier, and unarmed officer tier. Right. Um, and right now, I mean, I haven't heard that it's, um, that we're, we're, you know, that we're way under. Um, and again, part of that is a lot
of those funds are paid by the vendor. Right. Paid by athletics. Right. And if we continue to creep that up, it's gonna cut back the, it could, it has the potential to cut back the, the, the work of, well, we used to be able to hire and now we can't. Mm-hmm. We have a request right now coming up in, in July where they are asking for us to, you know, orgo charging them, say, yeah, we will, but my budget can't handle and your community event, which is, you know, impacting youth.
Right. You know, removing them from, from crime. Wholeheartedly agree. But it down to my dollars, able to continue to support outside things. Well, so then to that point A, as of right now, the department doesn't earn any money off of us working a special event. For example, if, if my rate is $50 per hour, that is what West High School pays for me to be at their graduation. Instead of them paying $60 an hour and 10 goes to the house Yeah. And the rest goes to their officer. Another thing I would ask if you could do is if
DPDs rates have increased or when there's increased, maybe we can follow something suit with them or something of that nature. I mean, I, I don't think that's unreasonable. I, I disagree with, um, 480,000, 500,000 came out of my budget to go to athletics. Hmm. So even though when you work in athletics, event athletics is putting the, uh, you know, you're, you're using that co code mm-hmm. For that event. Right. It came from our budget. It's just Wow. I, I didn't realize that either. Yeah. So it, it is, it's kind of a, it's kind of an area that I'm,
I'm, I'm struggling with, I don't know how many community meetings we had for school, uh, consolidation. Yeah. Quite a few. Um, so we absorbed all those costs so everybody was getting special duty rate, but there really isn't an account code for we had to be there. We had to provide that support. Yeah. But there was no department that could pay us for that. Right. I mean, technically it's a superintendent initiative mm-hmm. But superintendent doesn't really have a budget that's all of these other mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Budget. So, so that's just kind of one of the challenges that we, is there some, is there,
would you want to be in a position where the house takes some of that hourly rate to help fund it? Or that's you're not interested in that at all? No, because again, we already struggle paying what, what, what good is it to, to take money from the same officers that I'm hoping will come back and work with us next year. Right. That, that should, no one should be, again, it's completely voluntary. Right. Nobody has to work specials. Um, but if they're gonna take time away from their family on a weekend, they should be given that compensation. Mm-hmm. I do just want to add
that these rates are done in conjunction between Department of compensation. Right. Okay. Are are they though directly? Yeah. Oh yeah. The current, the current rates are their compensation. They don't run the compensation. And that all came straight from compensation that didn't come Former chief or No, no. Partnership between the former chief of compensation. Gotcha. It's a joint effort. Okay. Which we spend a lot of time talking about something. That's absolutely good point. Uh, in service training, we are in agreeance. Yep. Um, for job related production had for therefore Marcia two professional,
not even. Um, okay. So we're in agree here. I felt that I forgot to highlight for information period word spelling. Um, this, they were updating this one, um, was for what we get now for insurance. But you guys had tweaked the verbiage, I think, uh, where we had talked about it at one point. I think our, what we had done is, is struck out the, uh, ca the portions make it cash and no longer is what we had done. Yeah. That's where we get down to 22 2. But we're so 22 dash two flex
dollar amount here. Lemme see. Yeah. We, we weren't asking to strike that piece. And I think we were though because we weren't certain that they still existed. Maybe that's what I Was, it was the, it the flex dollar is now what we are getting in. Correct. If I'm wrong, for benefit credit Cash and Lou, Um, no, not, not that one for like right now. Um, district's given the one, whatever, that's what that was stating. That's not from the other one. That was a different one. Okay. I scroll up,
The link came up. So this will just fixing that verbiage to and the other just, And then going great. Yeah. Oh, Is it, uh, what's, what's different here? Is this, the current language is this, this Is from yours. This is from yours. Okay. I gotcha. I just, why it's, I'm not Well, patrol officer's different. It was just updating the current line. Yeah. Yes. Gotcha. I gotcha. Everything exactly from yours is here. Just to agree. I just don't know Why. No. Perfect. No, just wanted to understand.
Alright. Both benefits. Ready? Um, the district had completely struck this out unofficially, Lawrence, we had kind of talked about, I think you had offered 1 72 per pay period. And our current is 1 60, 2 50, I think you had said. Yeah, 72 1 71 50, assuming the cash in restricted. Right. So a $9 increase and then also to remove a, a benefit that our members already have that will expire. It will, we recognize, we agree that, so Let the games begin.
What, um, I mean we were really, this was one of ours. We are really set on it. I know that other associations get 4 42 per who lemme find a, A BGW would probably be the one if that's the one you're talking Probably because there's only, they're, they're the highest I Okay. Then they, then no one else. No one else gets that. Okay. Now, one reason that they're, there's a hire is because they used salary increase dollars to raise them. And if that's something y'all are interested in, we talked about the budget we had last time. If we wanted to take some of that budget
to increase this, we're open to that. What does that even look like? So we say, okay, we're gonna use 1% to go to health benefit credits, for example. I mean, well then we'd have to do some calculations, figure out what that ends up being here. Right. Okay. So then if we don't go, so we know that, we know that at least one association gets 4 42 per month. So if we work somewhere between where we are now and 4 42, what does that look like? Mm-hmm. It, it, it would look like how much of the in dollar increase you wanna use toward us. None. What does that look like? What it is? Unless we're in cash and move. Okay.
So if we are serving cash and blue 1 70, 1 50, that's it. $9. That's what all of us get. I understand that. I'm no offense, but you're not my union members. And yeah. So you are saying your offer is $9 increase, remove passion back, you said you had it. Well, I, we're not in a position to accept that. So we can move on and come back. I, I don't know Lawrence, how, um, the, just
to be clear too, the 1 71 50 is per pay period, not per month. This is broken out per month. Oh. Well our health benefit credit was 4 42 per month, which associated to 2 21 per pay period. Yes. But what I, I just wanted to make clear that the 1 71 50 is per pay period. Not per month. Yeah, no, I understand that. Right. So the, um, the increase there, I, and I just want to look at some numbers. Mm-hmm. I believe you had said there was one person who was taking the cash in loop. There's Actually six of us that qualified
before there are actually using. And at the time I believe that there was one, and then Remington was able to confirm that that was not true. So four people were. Yep. And they do not wanna give up. Okay. If, um, uh, if just throw out there, if were, if it were to be given up and we raised a 20 71 50, that'd be an additional, uh, $6,696 given toward that cost where four people were receiving it is cashing. I'm seeing what that is. Don't off the top of my head. That's more, that is more. Yep.
Max two equals, uh, 15 cash, 12 equals 15 5 52 is what you think. Think so. Um, but I lost, uh, so you're saying the 15 5 52 that the district plays right now cash in lie is, is more Right. So we are giving more to get less. So we would get about 6,100 additional, like giving 15 five. Yes. Oh, we're not gonna do that. Understand? Yeah. I, I just wanted to look at the numbers. I wasn't Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I and that's good.
I, I wanted to look at that too. Um, we're almost right. Halfway. It's 9 55. Let's break until 10 0 5. Okay. Sound good? Okay. You guys want a little bit longer? Shorter, Huh? Okay. 10 0 5. Right. He never built the school until a secure, we were notified. We responded. He going home. Got it. They didn't call us while he was there. Mm-hmm. Got it. This is clearly a school issue, not a safety issue. Um, I know climbs into that chair
last, or did we stop chair? Yeah, we're on a break, Lisa. I did it too, but I, we, this one, it's going to wish, yeah, we are definitely, I would think so. Cash. So in regards with the cash, I said there's six that were qualified, but four that are participation. Um, in that we'd be willing to take this back, um, to give the vote if there is an agreeance, to give that back into the district to back into benefits
if we could get to $200 per pay period. Okay. We're able to do that. We apologize. We have to come back to that one then. Yeah. I mean, I mean, again, we could, you wanna take that money out of the salary increase? We absolutely could do that. Just a matter of spending that money. We have a budget we have to work With. Yeah. Not from out the salary increase, but just that the 15 five if I'm correct for the well with the cash mm-hmm. Versus giving the 61. Um, I don't what the math would look like with two, but I think right now we're gonna have to come back to that.
I agree. You guys have some additional, um, for and department and policies, procedures. Yep. Say professional leave. So we had what, what under this is, oops, holiday 24 dash. Okay. Um, for, we had added for the schedule for planned days that are within the calendar year to have that planned out and finalized at least within the seven days. Oh, right. So this reduces when this, this talks about when we know
that we're going to reduce staff to have that reduced staff staff schedule made way in advance or at least seven days in advance of the actual reduced staff period. Yeah. Or the ones that are following within the work calendar time. Right. Yeah. Right. So just just from my knowledge, we'll see if I have this correct, this would would apply primarily to an cardio spring break, Thanksgiving break, winter break. Are there other times as well, or not even necessarily those, it really applies to the 11 holidays
that are on our work calendar. So for example, because of Memorial Day was just the most recent, our schedule, well our schedule is built out, you know, weeks, months in advance. And so on a typical Monday there might be eight people that work well, we know that we're gonna go to reduced staffing. So now we're only gonna have two people work on that Monday. What we're asking is to figure out who those two are well in advance of the, of the holiday as opposed to the Friday before in your, in your proposals for seven days in advance. Correct. Minimum of seven days in advance.
So this would be our scheduling program. So That was last week. The 26th. 26th. So, and again, I in this hate to have to go somewhere under the bus dispatch with Jenny, we know this. Wait, prior, I don't know Typically a prior Jenny, is it typically a month prior? Jenny's got a, it, it barely out like six months, Right? Yeah. Yeah. It's, we know. Yeah. Even the
Problem with my team is they all wanna work the holiday because they get done Yeah. Know. Right. So, you know, it's, it's not patrol where they want the day off. And so I have, I have to go You the last one, you get this one off. Yeah. Yeah. So, but yeah, think it's also, yeah, like that Would Jenny be, because Jenny already does that. She's already planning ahead snow days when we know that it's coming. That's ahead. Sorry. We don't know. Snow days are coming in advance, but I think Jenny prepares for it
because she knows the snow's possibility. Yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah. Like if the talks of, you know, there's concern, oh, the district might close because of this or whatever. Mm-hmm. Jenny's already planning ahead to get title. And really the only way I do that is I walk in there and I'm like, tomorrow's a snow day, who's working? And they're like, okay, deal. The rest of you Go home. Yeah. Or even just looking at the weather when you know, you're looking at that, those are obviously those one offs because we don't know. We could think it's gonna get 50 inches and we barely get Ask again
Huh? Back seven days Just for holidays, right? For the, yeah. Within the district aligned work calendar time. We do. I think it's the left Days. I, I Eric's saying, I mean for the exposure day, wanna know that as soon as possible. And I think we have another language addressing that. This is for specifically for calendar based holidays? Correct. Calendar based holidays. You, you would like seven days notice. Does this also include no contact day? Do we go down a minimal staffing fund? We typically don't. Oh, it's only where they get Double, double pay. Right. Just all it I don't, I don't think that's unreason. No. So we could at July one just, uh,
identify every office 100% there. Yeah. Quality's gonna work. I mean, yeah. I, I think, I definitely think we can do seven days. I don't think we can do 30 days or six months. 'cause we don't know right now with all the sick time and, and in injuries in the department and stuff, it's hard to say, Hey, for sure this person's. Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's fair. I I I think a week is so we're okay. We're okay with this. Yeah. Are you? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, we've made some changes too, so I haven't sent it out yet because we made 'em yesterday and, and today we're here.
But, um, it's gonna be, it's gonna fall on one sergeant for all scheduling stuff. Oh, okay. So it Should, that should help Correct. Any, yeah. Yeah. That should definitely help that. Okay, cool. Turn it green. And that I just pulled up our work calendar that applies to our 13 paid Not snow. I won't, I I can't do I agree? No, we can try to do it. We should do a better job than we do probably. Yeah. So that was just the example. Yeah. Well it says such as then, so sorry, I know we, we try to agree but such as then do we spell it out just as you said, but 13 Calendar based holidays. The
13 calendar based based holiday. The 13 is subject to change. I'm willing to say based on work calendar, holidays And that only because what holiday was it? We just got, um, Juneteenth that There was no, there was another one. Excuse are thing. Yes. Oh yeah. We allowed to work and you guys Yeah. Such as I I guess let's just call it out. Let's not say such as schedules for planned calendar based holiday breaks. Perfect Plan. Say that again. I would say holiday days not breaks because Yeah, yeah. Then it was all person. Different Okay.
Days then Probably the Five. You said schedule for planned. How do you schedule? Well let's change low staffing to reduced staffing. Minimal Staffing. Minimal staffing. Okay. That is all wrong. It's close enough though, see to get you there A minimum. But I mean all the wordsmithing makes my English minimum. It's probably 'cause you're in the room. Otherwise we would just be like, like now we have an English schedule planned. Minimal staffing period. Oh, you know how To skip for me Schedules for planned minimal. Yeah,
Minimal. And then ING periods as determined by calendar based holidays. Work calendar based holidays, district based holidays. However, district paid holidays. District paid holidays. I like that. What about just work calendar holidays? Does every single person in DPS have 13? Oh, okay then so we do need to say work calendar. Yeah. Yeah. 'cause we're not work calendar. Work calendar, holiday Calendar based. Holiday work calendar based holidays. Right.
So then remove this other case schedules or planned minimal staffing periods As Determined. Add a separate holiday when you do Schedules for planned minimal staffing periods as determined by work, calendar based holidays must be finalized and communicated at least seven days in advance. My Next door neighbors are both 9 1 1 dispatchers. Does that feel better too? Yep. Yep. All right. Thank, um, I have a note. We had talked about this that we would get with pay to make sure they had that proper training for this card.
Um, as far as Christmas was on whatever the Saturday, but the pay, yeah. Okay. Um, but I couldn't recall What like, like we can't guarantee this in the language at this point because that's, I couldn't recall if we were, We, we can't do that. But we have our commitment to work with payroll and one, one of the things we talked about is it might not be effective till the next work your calendar comes out. 'cause they have to tie it too. That's right. I'm not sure they're able to create a new calendar at this point, but they need some time lead times 20 blocks down too. Plus it needs to be programmed differently within Oracle.
So you have our commitment to try to make this work. It's just a matter of putting in language we're not able to commit to at this point. Yeah. So I just couldn't recall how, how And I know that there is work around Yes. That Jenny has figured out. Yeah. We're we're making sure people do get the right amount. Yes. But we want, we do want to adjust holidays accordingly. 'cause we had talked about how you all have a very unique schedule that is apply to ation. Mm-hmm. Health payroll can get a good sergeant. So Make sure the workaround works. Yeah, exactly. I just couldn't recall how if we were keeping not,
but I knew there was a conversation. They Important thing right now until those system things are put in place is to make sure that that communication from employees and sergeants and supervisors are as open because we want to make sure that employees get paid what they're supposed to be ba getting paid and we won't know when unless they come to us and tell us to get it fixed. Right. Fair. Yeah. Okay. Um, I don't know why this highlighted, but we had all agreed with the, that admin, so I all, if that's okay with everybody Of course.
Way easier With the ver change for the seniority up here, uh, down, um, who promoted with internal transfers were return, um, Oh right. And we said department savings, external operations. Yeah, we're good there. Okay. These were defined above all. So we have that all. They have strikethrough. We have strikethrough. Is that, did we agree on that or where are We at? Um, that was, um, we had to find someone about the other duties thing down above
that we have agreed with, which is right under Okay. Not above, below. So this moves on. So that should all be green then? Yes. Okay. Not above, below, but make sure. So then, okay, so right here, that's green as well? Yes. Okay. More simplified outline of Right, right. With the helping out. Mm-hmm. To be okay with how they have it word there. Professionals assist. Sorry.
Yeah. So that's what they had, right? Yeah, I remember You were okay. Yeah. I mean he had, he had all left. No, think he was arrested. Report left. He left. He did leave. He wasn't arrested. Correct. Well, I don't know about later, but he did leave the school. Um, I never heard that he was, that he had just, and they didn't know where he was at, so it was just abandoned. Okay. So it was an abandoned backpack, Correct. Mm-hmm. And they found, um, guns was locked in. Sorry. Um, and then we didn't get much
as far as what the transportation, uh, you guys had talked about. What the MOU we were working on that. Working on that. Okay. Um, but we've talked about it can't be in honor roll can get those letters in. Is that right, Lawrence? Yeah. Just because it impacts another department that isn't covered within this agreement. It's hard for us to put this in the contract, but I think there was commitment to work on this issue, particularly between, uh, the chief and Albert. Yeah. We, we got a first draft going.
Um, I think Albert is in agreement that we just need to take, we just need to solidify that. I would like to say assistance with transportation will be, be based on an MOU. You can include that into our contract to ensure that it's based on an MOU. Uh, I disagree again, ul ultimately training can come in and say you're under operations, you will take over dispatch after hours. So that would, that, that takes, this would take control away from my responsibilities. I'm trying to avoid that. 'cause again,
I don't want it to go that way. But ultimately it could. Well could. So in the contract for with the, with the bus drivers and the maintenance, um, uh, you know, I, I don't know the exact title so I'm calling again and I'm probably wrong. So that's okay. Sorry about that. Um, that they will pick up what transportation is sort. Uh, that was, that's within their union contract. So I know our job description says we will assist transportation after hours. So I don't know what in the, or in the job description,
it has to be fixed to say the after hours, like how we do during the day. We talk about oh, bus accidents, the missing kids. Yeah. You know, and stuff like that. So that's why there's an outline for that to be able to help. Um, and then Trina wanted to change our job description. Again, that's where I would have to have that pushback of Well, facilities isn't going, they're under operation. They're not going through the bus driver or Sure. But again, that's all under one department. But that is that bargaining agreement with that department.
Right. Just like your bargaining agreement is with this department. So when they're saying we're gonna cover dispatch that, that's basically we could put in there, patrol is gonna cover dispatch when you guys are short. Now clearly we don't need to do that. Or I don't know. But that, so I think that's the difference. We can't dictate what we can't dictate. As, as Lauren said, uh, uh, uh, this agreement is with the union district. We can't dictate that other department coming in here
and, and saying that. Does that make sense? A little bit. But then again, we on to do that because they require certain certifications. Well you can't require without us. 'cause then now we're gonna have to talk hey. And then other certification and like all of those things. So just, I mean, again, if, if, if the pay discrepancy is all about the CDL, I have no problem sending the dispatchers to get a CDL. It's not hard, but I don't think it's necessary. I mean, we have two different job descriptions, two different things and how that, you know, we train
and I mean to be honest, safety, we help everybody. Yeah. And like there hurt nothing and it's just always expected, you know, the health now being a requirement is just unfair because I hope transportation is realizing that they need to go back to staff helping this too. And we just have too much going on. They work less hours than us, whatever. So just to keep adding other workloads on top of what we do. Just insurance safety for our staff when everybody else
is gonna be more difficult. So transportation understands that. I think so. And it is in the MOU that, you know, you know, again, the, the our, our staffing numbers is limited and now we're taking on more work for another department. So I don't disagree with anything that you're saying. I just don't think this is where it belongs. There. You guys are kind of the experts. Um, so one thing I I will say about referring to an MOU in, in this contract is we can't refer to a document that doesn't technically exist yet. It
Doesn't exist. Exist. Yeah. That's Fair. And so the problem with referring to it in, in 26 3 is it hasn't been ined, it hasn't been formally agreed to at this time. And so you Can't, well this contract won't go effect until August 1st. And so the idea would be by August 1st, that document would be created. Right. But we can't ta this contract with the, with that MOU in it if that MOU has been formally agreed to. Yeah. And so that, that's, that's why, um, number one why, why you wouldn't want
that in in contract language. But but also a good middle ground might be because I, I'm reading this contract language and, and the spirit of the language to me is that, is that you want some is ultimately collaboration. If I'm not mistaken. We, we'll continue Yeah. The collaboration of if they have a kid missing a bus or unreleased students like we had yesterday on a bus, uh, breakdown, the 12 going to assist, like all of those things. But it is to stop, uh, fulfilling the role
of a transportation dispatcher just because they're leaving at six and we are our 24 24 7 operation dispatch center. So, So from 6:00 PM to 11:00 PM every night, my team transportation dispatcher would go home, they cook dinner, hang out their families. My team takes over their entire job, respons And BA based it all down to transportation in, in your opinion, should not leave until the kids are done with the bus. Bus are back in work. Yep. Or should Yeah. Staff appropriately for those hours stay. Okay. So now our operation operates until 11:00 PM Is it typically 11 or is 11?
It's always 11. Usually by 11. So it is 12. And sometimes that's just like, that's one random Coming From Yeah, those were like athletic buses that are coming from Fort Collins type of thing. Yeah. So I guess instead of, if we, if we wanted some language in here instead of referring specifically to an mou, would you be comfortable speaking in more generic terms That's far as you have a Well, I mean we, we would need to maybe talk about some language. Mm-hmm. Um, 'cause I haven't had a chance to really look at it and Yeah. It, it is not And draft anything and, and confer with,
You know. Yeah. It's not taken away that the help that we provide during normal business hours. Like I said, we went yesterday for kids, are we on the bus? Hey, this kid got off the bus and made it home or placed on the wrong bus. Sure. There are emergency situations that you, We definitely wanna want to honor the, the job that you do in the assistance that you provide, but at the same time not refer to a specific document that hasn't been agreed to. Would that be a amenable if we Maybe we would definitely be open to that. We'd be open to, Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, of course. Um, I know we talked about special events,
but I cannot, yeah, I mean I think, I think again, we kind of landed that it didn't belong in the union agreement and that, um, there was some questions about swing shift officers getting specials and uh, the process is fair that we couldn cut that. That's, that's what I remember the fair, um, fair Oh, with you sending out. But fair as far as with the sergeant approval, that was the concern from the patrol officers. And like I said, I just made some changes.
I just haven't been able to send 'em out. Oh, specials are with that? Yes. Okay. Yes. Okay. Yeah. So there would be one, one sergeant based on where they are in the rotation. So like right now it's gonna be the 10 to six sergeant because he's on during those special, when the specials go out mm-hmm. Um, that approves officers working special events, approves all vacation requests and does all the scheduling Oh. And when to work. So Okay. That person will have be accountable for all of that. Okay.
So itt be having to search for which sergeant they need to go to. Okay. They didn't know that. Correct. Yeah, no, I, I, I mentioned that I was making changes, but I don't think I went into anything. And then you can also assist with, um, talking for, we need to get, we need to make that process equitable. Um, their, their team works are special. So it needs to be a fair process if you're, if you're able to work a CSO special, um, that special should go out to everybody and there should be some kind of fair process. So, so you guys are getting, I just need to work with Val on that.
Fine. I know as far as your signing, but at least the offering, correct? Yes. Okay. So it can be in mm-hmm. Okay. And for the employee concern will down Yep. Oh, I thought I, I know talked about but um, as far as what the directives and I probably mixing go up a little bit up Yeah. Web base or some type of online. Yeah. We had talked about being able to share directives
and shift briefings and communications. Just don't know where we landed with it. So, you know, so we had had in our contract a way to address directives and communications. The district completely struck that out. I know we had a conversation about it. I just don't know exactly where we ended. Yeah, I mean that's, that was a part of the conversation with the sergeants yesterday. There's gonna be a, we're using a program that can either send it out as an audio re you know, recording an interactive program where they can ask questions and all the sergeants have to do is plug in a policy Hmm.
And you can ask questions like, Hey, when do I turn on my body-worn camera? And, and this podcast will talk it back forth and give you the answer. Oh. Um, and, and there's also, that's a written document. Mm-hmm. So you can send it out either way. So if we're working on it, it's gonna take some time. Okay. But I don't know that it, um, directives, I don't know that, I don't know that that would go out in that format. I think directives are a temporary policy adjustment and that would come from, from, uh, the cheaper eye I guess, or the commanders. Yeah.
And the spirit of directives are to be just that, to be temporary. Yeah. Which is typically 30 days or less. Is that what we kind of think is, I mean, right now they're not because Right. Because our policy manual's not, not finished and updated. But ultimately I think that's the way it should be. Mm-hmm. The idea of the directive is to be able to put that into place now to give you time to incorporate it into the policy board. Right. Gotcha. And, and that's maybe where it's lacked a little bit is is that incorporation into the policy Policy. Right. I you said it without me saying it. So there we go.
Um, I don't know that it needs, needs to be in the union agreement, but just to ask for questions. Are you making the changes? And apologies if you already did it, but I don't know. But just from patrol side of things of hearing, um, I mean a while back we had talked, Eric put a directive of eight billing checks mm-hmm. And someone kept it with a five and then I think someone was even like trying to up it. Is that directive for that shift or is that gonna be for all?
And that's something that they could put in the email that they can all, I guess agree on. So it's, well, why do I have to do eight on swings and graveyards of five? I think I had those shifts backwards. But, um, is is that, I don't know. I mean, that's a great question because to me, I think there's also some supervisor, um, space that you have to give 'em to say, Hey, this is my shift right now and, and this is kind of what I want see happen. Mm-hmm. And, and when you look at eight
and five swings has calls for service where graveyards has calls for service, but they're usually building related. Mm-hmm. So they may pick up more. So, and I don't know if your numbers are right or not, but, but um, I just feel like that that example specifically is more a supervisors purview to make that decision. Is that something that the, that they collectively should agree as a supervisors of, Hey, are I, I don't know. Just there's something that I can refer to because then well it should, the guys are always like, well I feel like I'm gonna get in trouble because this one's telling me this one, this one's telling me this.
Yeah. I mean maybe it should be consistent or, or at least, um, if it's not consistent, why isn't it consistent? We, you know, we get right now right? We got all the senior pranks going on and stuff like that. So you might ask be asked to do more because of the, at this time. Um, um, yeah, I don't, I don't, I feel like it consistent from shift to shift. Mm-hmm. Each shift may be different. Mm-hmm. But if no matter what sergeants are, this is the standard for the shift. Mm-hmm. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. I agree with that. Yeah. And we all had agreed for three.
Yeah. That was based on that there's an accommodation process within university, all employees. Mm-hmm. Done well Still few areas, but a lot closer. Better than it was this morning. So I won't take it. Right. Moving forward. Yeah. We'll take it. Um, I guess what we'd like to do is just present, well there's a few things. So the district did do a market analysis for us mm-hmm. On our pay. So I'd like to pull that up. Sure. Do a quick stop. Do I gotta a quick signal? Oops,
what you're saying, do a clear Oh no, because it'll still be on. Do a quick stop. That's okay. So I can get my license order. Yeah. Um, I send it back to My, um, when you guys get a free moment, can you make a copy of your draft and send it, we just shared folder. Okay. I'm just gonna send it to you again. Market, Whatever you prefer. Yeah. Share your email. You more Do, when I sent you that meeting, actually everybody would help me in this journey. Do 100,000
Them. So the district provided this to us. When was it Remington? Um, maybe at the beginning of this calendar year. Bernie reach out. How do I go back to I, oh, what the hell? You're so brave. This is why we are she used to having everything watched live. Yeah. Yeah. She doesn't care. So That is what the district provides to us, which is very hard to read. I don't, I'm not certain why I'm trying to make it, I made it bigger. I don't know if that's it, but No. 'cause I had the same problem just on my little computer. Um, and I, I it's a picture copy that's probably, oh, okay.
So when you blow it up, it gets problem. Right. I don't know that I even truly understand it. So when this is a negative red number, that means that we're below, correct. Mm-hmm. Right. Okay. And then a positive obviously would mean that we're slightly above. Yes. Okay. Well, I mean the, the number's more of what's slightly, or I mean the magnitude's designated by the number, if it's positive means it's above. If it's negative means if it's below, if it's there, it means it's below. Okay. So we're below on everything. These are all negative numbers with that one exception.
Is that true? Uh, that is true. And then what is this down here, Remy? Um, I can explain it if you'd like it. Okay. Yes, actually that'd be great. Lemme that you go back up the top. It'll start with the top one. Okay. So this measures against our comparable school districts. And I, I think we might talk last time about what they saw. Um, I don't know which school, uh, school Districts. So we, we compare against other school districts. Okay. So there's, it's either seven or eight. I think it's seven. It's um, Boulder Valley, uh, St.
Brian, uh, Brighton, 27, J Adams 12, Aurora, Douglas County, cherry Creek, Jeff Jeffco. Jeffco. So that, that's the eight school districts that we compare against. Okay. So that's what this date is based on. So at the minimum starting salary, you see that we're way above for starting salary, which makes sense 'cause we put a lot of money in salary, starting salary to attract people. And that's where we have the positive green 12.3%. Correct? Yes. Okay. Um, for midpoint, uh,
this is like the median salary in the salary schedule. That's where we're at market-wise. And then maximum is the maximum, the salary schedule. Okay. Right. Now one thing that I want to point out on this is the maximums are very different because not all the, not all groups in in your field are unionized in other mm-hmm. So they have salary ranges. So the range may be higher, but people don't usually don't access that top of the range. Yeah. And even the, the dispatch one, those numbers are off. We're actually less. Yeah. They talked about 40 29. 29 90.
That's 25, 36, 82 That No, this is the, um, this isn't our number. This is the market midpoint. That's what the market is. Okay. Or below what the market is was saying anyway. Yeah. So, so we come in below at the midpoint and the maximum. That's correct. Yep. Right. Okay. Now down below, if we go down below to the blue chart. Yeah, the blue chart. Okay. This looks at mid points among all those districts. So if you see their top three school districts, this is midpoint. Now measuring the middle of the schedule, so
the top school district outta the ones we compare with for emergency dispatchers is 34 23 is what their, uh, their median is. And for patrol officers it's 37. You see that we're below there. Uh, number two, the school district is 33 75 for, uh, dispatchers and 34 0 3 for patrol officers. That's the second highest district now, second highest district. Okay. Now, now again, this isn't necessarily the same district for both, right. It's looking at each job, what the highest pay is in each district. Gotcha. And then the third, you notice
that we are a third in as far as patrol for the midpoint. Right. And, and one of our board resolutions is that we would be amongst the top three highest paying Correct. Something of that nature. Correct. Okay. Yeah. At, at the time of negotiations. Now, ah, now granted, we, we, we have, we have fallen off a little bit when last time we negotiated we were mm-hmm. So right now, because, you know, for, for a number of reasons and oh, I'll, I'll share it if you, if you'd like. Yeah. As, as we went into the union,
we had, and I, I, I'm very proud of this actually 'cause I was a part of it. I, I like to think I'm a part of it as you all have incorporated two additional groups, ASOS and the dispatchers into the union. Mm-hmm. And then as we incorporated them, we gave them a large increase upfront as they came in, which then meant less in the, in the following years as far as the salary schedule. Now what we didn't know is what the, what was gonna happen economically. So there were actually a couple really high coal years over the last couple years. That's why we've fallen behind them all bit now, um, with our, with our proposal, you know, as far
as once we add the money in there, we'll reevaluate this and we believe that we will be on market with the top three. I think maybe that's where I'm confused too. That's what we talked about in September of doing the reevaluation. Correct? Or no, I'm not sure. Okay. Um, the way I remember it is essentially you said, Hey, you have 3% and that's non-negotiable essentially. And then within that 3%, 1.54 is already spoken for or something of that nature. That's, that's for the steps, right? Yes. So then that gave us that remainder of, I don't, 1.5, whatever about Yeah.
But then I thought, I felt that we talked about them revisiting that or revis or doing something. Yeah. Um, so, and, and again, this is I part of negotiations, but there there's also pair of chew of money. So right away these are all going up by 2.5% for everybody. Yeah, I see what you're saying. Because that wasn't factored in. Right. Right. So that was not factored in here. So, but, and, and I only bring it up because I think that's wonderful news that we all work together and our employees can get more money. Mm-hmm. That's cool. So that, that's the reason to bring it up. So that's already gonna bump things up a certain amount. Now we're talking about money on top of that. Right.
And so, um, with the step that's, you know, I know it's a cost, but that bumps people up. Anybody who's eligible to get a step, which I think is most of everybody there may be a couple capped up, but most everybody. And then, um, and then the rest of the money would be cola to to do that. What we talked about was that the, um, we don't dispute, you know, we, we, we, we provided this data, so we don't dispute that the dispatchers are under market. Uh, what we had talked about is we could give that colon, well, let's say that one, let's say let's approximately 1.5.
Yeah. Correct. Um, we could give that to everybody. As a cola, we could give 1% as the cola use 0.54 for insurance benefits. I mean, you know, we, we also talked about should we try to give the emergency service dispatchers a little bit more of that cola to try to get them caught up? Mm-hmm. Uh, what, what we also talked about was looking at a potential market adjustment in September for them that we're not able to do that as part of the negotiations, but finance did, uh, commit that they would be willing to look at a potential market adjustment at that time. What does that mean when they say that we're willing
to look at a market adjustment that means that they're willing to do this again? Um, well, they're willing to look at this. So compensation does this part. Okay. We take it to finance and we say we believe this group is being underpaid. Finance is different than compensation. Yes. Okay. So compensation does all the legwork with the salary schedules, the market day and all the modeling, uh, making sure people get paid. Not payroll, we don't like cut checks, but we make sure that like salary schedules are followed and, you know, any, any extra duty pay stipends,
that all goes through compensation. Uh, finance, they're the controllers of the money. So if just like the longevity piece, I'm not able to bargain something that's an additional cost, you know, outside, outside of the budget without going to financing. Is this something that we're approved to do? Mm-hmm. Okay. And so I, I meet with finance on a very regular basis to have these discussions. Right. But, um, so we, we basically prepared this data like we've done for you, but it would be based off the new negotiations and everything. We'd go to finance, say, we believe this group's underpaid.
Here's the amount of money would cost to adjust them up to market. And they give us a yes or a no. But, um, in, in the initial conversation I had, and I'm not, I, I can't guarantee anything because of course. Yeah. But they, when I talked to finance before, they thought it was reasonable and they would be willing to deliver something that what they told them. Right. So in doing that with the conversation, um, I didn't know you guys did build all those school districts, but with doing our own, they putting together a little bit of difference. Oh, sorry. I gotta make a smaller
Oh, okay. Well, What is that? Just pdf? Yeah. Oh, okay. I'll just leave that there and not touch it. Yeah. Essentially what we did was our own market analysis by looking at public information of job postings and pay scales and pay salaries. Its all of it. And so, Remy, explain it a little bit. So DPS, low, mid high is that top line, right? Uh, correct. Or, uh, dispatch and Right. For where we've lost people too. Um, more or less.
So, um, yes, we're above AP PS as far as for our, our start, but we fall short with mid and high For AP s. Right, right. And then we fall short geco on everything. Mm-hmm. And saying with you guys, what f and then above Douglas and then Jeff Ho obviously. Right. Which speaks to what you kinda indicated the Laura says, as far as having a higher hourly to bring people in, which is great.
And then unfortunately we do lose people to these districts. So we want to be closer to what our colleagues and other districts are. So people that are leaving are being brought in at midpoint and higher at these other districts. So especially just to move from, not as far as the numbers firm, So we're never gonna be competitive at starting salary, mid salary, max salary. We have, we have to pick where our competitive nature is. So I believe the, I believe what we're trying to measure here is the mid point, because that affects the majority of people
and we know that we're already starting, but what we're really targeting that good point. Um, as I talked about with some of these other school districts, they have a range. So the range may go up more, but people don't always get there. Mm-hmm. In the step schedule, you will get to the top and the range, you don't necessarily get to the top or few people get, forget the top of the range. I know we dealt with this with another union with a range in, uh, Douglas County. It's like, well, look how big this range is. But when you look at the actual employees, they're nowhere close to top of that range. Yeah, I get that. I get that. Which is the difference between range and step. Right. And on our last contract, we were able to incorporate step,
which was to our bedroom. I mean, people saw, saw definite increase by doing that. Yeah. Now it did. In, in going to that step schedule, did cap the max, Well, a range. It wasn't looked at, it was the range as far as this was like the classification, but there was some steps 'cause it started here. What's the significance of September from finances? It just, that's when they can, things are calming down for them or do you know? Well, I, I mean the, the new fiscal year starts in July. We'll have an idea of how all negotiations have went
and, you know, once we new school year, any, any like surprise expenses, all that, it's just a little bit more stable at that point. Deadline discussion, Adam. Just like, this is like, the biggest part of the start of starting PA is huge when wanting to bring in somebody with, you know, the great skills along, whether it's control dispatch, a, SO and then keeping. Yep. Yeah. So I don't know how, but So Quick there's no happen stuff in, like, I'll just turn it,
turn it a little bit, but just turn it up. Yeah, well it turn the don't turn it off. Turn the, put the tire. Yeah. It'll shine off eventually. I gotcha. Okay. So, But approximately 1.5 1, 1 5 step in crawl type action. Um, what people will see overall in their check with, if someone's not eligible for a step, the difference from today versus next full year is gonna be approximately 4% based on they're already gonna see an extra 2.5 that we've already agreed to. Mm-hmm. And then an extra 1.5, a 4% increase is, is,
is very good. If you're eligible for a step on top of that, that's approximately another 1.5. So you're seeing a 5.5% increase. Um, I'm also sympathetic to people at the top of the schedule. 'cause you know, my, my friend there said that they're maxed out on steps. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, we, we would, we would also include one time, uh, stipends or, you know, if the cost is 1.5, then we'd give that as a 1.5% of their annual salary as a one time payment. One time, or one time a year. Just one time. Uh, what, what, what, what, what do you
Um, so if the Bob is topped out Yeah. The new pay schedule going to effect August 1st, Bob would get a one time, one time stipend that that would equal that 1.5 Yes. Or whatever. But next August, Bob wouldn't get that. Um, 'cause Bob would still be topped out next August. Well, that would be, we'd have to discuss what year two looks like. Oh, right. And so forth. So I, I mean one year, two year three, I mean, theoretically Yes. Right. I I mean there's nothing that would stop us from agreeing to that.
Correct. I mean, I mean this, what the real difference is there is, uh, uh, a salary schedule has max to it that allows us to still reward people. We're at the max, but it's not base building. It just, they're getting that what's a one time payment? Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Because, because it does, it does, it does make, I mean, there's a lot of arguments on this. Like the max should be the max. I hear, I hear that a lot. Mm-hmm. But it does make my heart heavy that somebody who's worked for us for a long time, we still want them to have mm-hmm. You know, something somewhat equal. Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's, but we can't just keep adding more and more steps.
That's how. Right. So that's a way to, to, that's our way to try to do that. Right. I gotcha. Which we have fair amount of members that are mask, I think. Correct. Mm. I know. Well, um, Don't think it's a ton in control. I don't think there is. No. Well, I think there's one, but then we have couple coming. I think some sos are, I don Think they're coming this year. Right. Coming up. That's a year to two years are, they're gonna be a lot that will come to that point, I believe. Which is something. So the, the, the max stipend
is something that we don't currently have. I'm asking that as a question. Right. You, you don't get a one-time stipend because you're maxed out. Um, I'm, well, I guess we would see coming to attention because they're maxed out. Oh, I see. Okay. I don't think we currently have that. I don't know. I guess I, I don't think we have. Okay. I, I, I don't, I don't think it's been much of an issue as far as maxed out in the past. I know that we went to the, um, new salary schedule. I, I'd have to review the agreement, like from three years ago mm-hmm. Went up. But I believe we guaranteed like a certain amount of increase and a one time payment if it didn't meet
that, I don't think we did. And I actually have that old one from our, from three years ago. Yeah. Yeah. That, that was something we did with, with a number of agreements. I'm not sure it's true for this one, but that Okay. Wouldn't surprise me. Okay. Yeah. I don't know that we did do that though about one time, but I know we kind of redefined the place. We probably didn't, 'cause we red redefined the placement process as far as trying to place, so we didn't have a step schedule. So we really did a lot of work to try to place people. Correct. Yeah. We didn't have one here. Right. Right. And that, that's where, that's where he counted, like, we had different categories for kind of military, you know,
different types of experience. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I, I think Bernie answered hand up. What up? Burn? A quick question. Lawrence. Uh, what happened to Cherry, uh, cherry Creek, uh, comparison? Uh, this is, this is, uh, this is our you y'all's comparison. So I don't know if they did Cherry Creek or all No. Couldn't find anything for, oh, For Cherry Creek. Is that Some are here. Are you here? Yeah. Yeah. So this is what I could find. Oh, yeah. And the best I could. Okay. All right. Thank you.
Well then as, I mean, we talked last time and you, you essentially said the 3% is the 3%. You said that there's nothing that you can do to change that. And I think that's where we're having a hard time. Okay. And I don't know, I, I'm not certain where we go. I, I think we could justify it all day long, every which way. But I understand that finance, that this is what it is. So it's a bit, it's, it's challenging now. I like thinking of other ways that to recognize things, um, like the step out, you know, max payment stipend
or longevity pay or things like that. I, I think that was a big thing with our benefit credit as well, is being able to increase the amount of benefit credit that we get. So that practically acts as a bit of a pay increase. Does that one time top out stipend? Um, that come from my general fund? No. Okay. No, this is all part of the need. My added for the increase just took a you goodbye the burrito. You're fine. You're fine. You delicious. Thanks again. You're welcome. Yeah. Thank you. No, I am, I mean, I, under, I understand the hesitancy,
you know, uh, it, it's, I mean we're, we're just talking about pure economic principles as far as scarcity. It's, you know, people have, have wants and needs and the resources don't always match that. And that's, that's normal. You know, I'm not, I don't begrudge that either, either way. That, that is the process here. Um, I can tell you that we come back in two months and the offer's not gonna change. I mean, the offer's, what it's, and you know, I appreciate that. I appreciate we tried to be as upfront as we could mm-hmm. Because we appreciated the way the collaboration was going. I thought there was a 1.5 when we last talked
that they had an opportunity to direct. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah. Yep. Approximate that. I mean, I, it's okay, great. But no, it's, I mean, they could, they could apply, you know, all that to, do you have dispatchers they could use some of that for health insurance? I mean, for the proposed It, because it's gonna into, uh, I pause here. Can I still get into what I need to Think? So On that screen, does it show on the Zoom screen what
I'm doing? No. It just shows Google and it's blank. Uhhuh. Does that show now? No. Just 'cause we, I gotta get into better in the district stuff and I don't want something for the kids. No, I appreciate that. Perfect. While you're doing that, let's take five quick minutes. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. All sorts of things there. Um, Yeah. 'cause that was May 8th, 2025. So that was our first meeting. Yep. That, oh, I gotta go backwards. If, if you go up to the top to slideshow, it'll show the whole thing, like right under where it's at. Oh, there
We go. That, there we go. Nice. Right. Where, So that's the current schedule. Okay. This is with the carrier through, so this is automatic, which the governor has signed back. So we we're not at that step. Why is that? Oh, I had to move it to see the tab. What's, uh, I, I guess I'll get this one year, one proposal is the ability to move up a step, which is a given. That's what's already happened. So Do you have what?
So this is a, do you have what everything else would look like? Yes. Keep progressing. Is that it? I I Thought it was on there. Oh, I guess I messed up the wrong button. No, it probably have the right one. I'm sorry. I thought it was there. Yeah, that's it. Okay. Put up the wrong one. I I don't, I don't think he shared the other one. Do you? I don't, I thought it was all the, the same. I'm just gonna recap. Um, I, I, I, I can reshare it with you, Ari. Put the rest of that in, in the copy. Okay.
Now this, this is the original proposal though, which had less of a cola amount because, and that was our initial offer. And, and then we got to the Yeah, we're talking about the whole amount at that point. Uh, I, I don't have that the, with all of it together. We can get that too. I apologize. No, I don't Me. I have to see something. No, like I totally get it. All right. So back to the idea of the proposal, Like slide four. I mean, if, you know, the core amount would move up, we would be happy to add the
language about max debt, producable lump sum. Um, okay. And then, you know, we, we talked about years two and three about, you know, is that something we wanna add in those as well? Well, in this proposal, it only included a one time 0.63. Am I reading that correct? Well, that, that was the cola based on the, the previous number. Right? Based on the previous number. Yeah. Correct. So that's, that's applied everywhere in the schedule. And it's not, oh, right. Okay. Yeah. The schedule's increased by that amount now I get it. Right. Yeah. Because the schedule's a three year schedule, but, right.
Well this year the schedule goes up by this amount on top of what's already been agreed to. And then people move a step. And then year two we get the call by figuring out what CPIs and School Finance Act subtract the step cost. And that's what the goal is. And then add that to the salary schedule. So there's an addition every single year. Right? It is, it's how it's broken down per year to year. Whether it's a, a 100% addition the first year or an 80% addition of first year and a 10%. 10%. Uh, I don't understand what you're Yeah,
I, so the, I get It, Nick. I think the reason they, they already know that the COLA will be six 63% or 0.63%, not 63%, but they don't know what the cola is gonna be next To, to August. So they can't add that percent in. Right. Yes, yes, yes. You understand. That's, and, and then I wasn't, yeah, I get it. So, so, so last year, just for your knowledge, the, the CPI came in at 5.2 from the state, and that's what increases were based on as far as that's track the cost of steps, which would be like 1.5, 5.2 from the state last year. Okay. And then that's what you get.
Now, the last couple of years before this one were pretty bleak economically. So I don't want to, like, I'm not trying to dissuade you by saying that, like it's always gonna be a high number. This year was 2.3 from the state, 2.3 from the state. That's what the district's receiving an additional funding. So we're actually, and that's, that's why our numbers are as low as they are. We're basing on that we're actually committing more money than what we're getting from the state. Right. Um, I believe the initial prediction at this point, and, and this changes up until like January of this year. C ps predicted to be 2.40.
What dropped to 2.3 at the very end? 'cause it's a yearly measure, but the current prediction as far as where it's trending right now is 2.6 per calendar year. 2026. Yeah. So, oh no. Cal calendar year 2025 because it's a year behind. Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. So basically through January till now, it, it had, it, it moves up and down slightly. Not a ton, but there was a 2.4, and over the last couple months it's moved up down to 2.6. So that could potentially go up, it could potentially go down. Mm-hmm. Depends on the economy.
I do think that there was, there was a number of, there was a lot of things that were, were, we're I guess nationally getting some, uh, confidence lacking in the economy. And so they're predicting prices to go up. That's why it went up a little bit. So. Right. Dunno if that's gonna continue or not. Right. And so you're saying that even though the, the district is only getting 2.3 from the state, the offer of 3.0 last time was, was, was the maximum, which is above and beyond the state.
Correct. And that, that's why, and then matched up with the parat true up, that effectively becomes a 5.5 guard. Yes. Um, what is, do you have those exact percentages again, as far as what percentage needed to go to the step portion? And what percentage is the pillar? I know we keep saying 1.5 basically, but The step was 1.47, step 1.47, which then left a difference of the, the, this original proposal priced at a 2.1%.
Oh, okay. That, that's why. Well, so we just needed to subtract 1.47 from three, and that's what left. Yes. Um, so 1.53. Right. And you were saying within that 1.53, that was where we were having similar the autonomy and deciding how and where and what that looks like. Which we, we haven't done that. We haven't even done that because we were to say we were just disappointed. We were disappointed in the overall, you know, the leftover of 1.53. We really felt that it was gonna be much higher. And then in talking about the market analysis, what's it called?
Market analysis in September Mark. Potential market adjustment. Potential market adjustment, that would apply only to dispatch or to all safety professions. Uh, dispatch just to dispatch, which is, well, in, in the market data, we currently have patrol officers at midpoint hitting in the third spot. So that matches the el. Now this isn't, we don't typically benchmark every single position. So I mean, we could, we could theoretically make an argument that, you know, with the number of, uh,
patrol officers versus the number of dispatchers that, that could be on track to meet that el. But we do recognize based on those numbers, that there is a deficiency as far as market dispatchers. Were, we're not trying to dispute that. So that's why, that's why I brought fire out. Right. And if the market analysis comes back that okay, yes. The, the Denver Public School of dispatchers are still underpaid, then finance can make that adjustment to bring them right to that midpoint or to wherever and they can do it right then and there if they so determine Well,
it, it's a team effort. Okay. They, they wouldn't be the ones who implement that activity. It would be compensation and me and others. Yeah. Yeah. But they're the ones who give the approval. They give the approval be because it's additional money that would have to, it, it doesn't, it doesn't come from chief's budget either. You know, he had, his budget is, is determined based on what is promised for the year for, you know, everything. So this is, this, this requires new money. Mm-hmm. That's why it goes to finance. Mm. And so they're basically approving, okay, here's some additional funds that we're willing to commit to to this group.
And that gets added into things. Right. That, that's why it goes to finance. And then there was one, and I'm sorry, I had the old one, um, where it potentially was for dispatch to, in a fair state right now, to be brought up, um, at the offer with all of the percentages and everything included with that, that we had talked about last time. Or is this still on top? This on top of that? Have you guys had, um, it was a different, um, I, I think what we said was to be discussed, and that was if we wanted to apply a diff, and this is a very touchy subject.
I'm not trying to say it's not, or it's not difficult conversation. The, the only reason it said to be discussed, we were recognizing that the dispatchers were under market and did we wanna apply a differentiated cola. So certain groups got more Kohler than others for, but that's also, and the reason we wanna discuss that, 'cause that may be a no-go, that's a very tough thing among unions where a lot of times unions believe everybody should get the same. Right. Right. And so that we, we weren't, we weren't we. That is, we, we weren't like, we weren't gonna push that agenda on you. We just wanted have the Right. Right. You wanted to say that that was an option. Yeah.
Yeah. I, I get that. I understand. I mean, honestly speaking, even with this one, I know there some other, to be honest, I feel like we should be answers and dancers should be be Right. But we, yeah. So that's where you guys have the power with that 1.53%, Correct. Right. But that doesn't, even, even if we gave that all to dispatch, that still doesn't, But this is just for the para. But wasn't there a new step grade scale brought to us that brought us up above the ASLs
and wasn't that one mentioned lastly or before? No, not that I remember. Well, when finance doing the marketing analysis in September, it's, it's beneficial to them because now they're factoring in all of these increases that just went to effect. Correct. Yeah. That's why September's magical. Is it, hold, hold on one second. Okay. Last time when we actually incorporated the assos into our union, you were able to build these salary schedules like on the fly. Are you able to do that right now or, uh, not necessary.
Not, not very easily. Okay. Yeah, not very easily. Uh, I I could, it wouldn't be as quick. No, that's fine. My, my comp person isn't able to be here today, so that makes it a harder Right, right. I just like to see what that look like with, to keep them at this. And then if the rest go between, I know majority here and then what the rest Of Yeah. And that to Laura's point, right? That's something I to Yeah, that's, that's correct. I mean, we could, we could certainly model that for you. Well, I think what, what we want a model of to start,
'cause obviously we're gonna have multiple models, right? So we would want 0.4, 5.45 to go to patrol, 0.45 to patrol. Then I would want 1% to go to dispatch, dispatch, and then 0.1 0.1 to go to a SLI, again, these are just models that we're working with. So 1% to, to dispatch Yep. Point four three to uh, 0.45
to patrol 0.10. It's uh, it's 1.53. Does my math not add up? Yeah, that's 1.45. Oh, okay. Or 1.55 I believe. Why, let's say what is, what are they getting? What say what are they getting? One, 1%. Let's start with that 1% to dispatch. Yep. Okay. Yep. Then 0.45 to patrol. Yep. Okay, then, okay, so minus, that's 1.55 versus 1.53.
That's what I was trying to say. Oh, so then that, that would, the leftover would then be 0.08, 0.8 of a percent, right? That's not, no, it's, it's 0.02 over. Okay. All right. Um, well then, okay. Right, so then let's do this to make it very easy. 1% to dispatch. Yeah. Okay. Which leaves 0.53. Yep. That to patrol. So that's one model. Okay. Then I would want a model of 1.53, just completely equally divided between the three.
Okay. Right. And then what, what else, what do you think? Uh, uh, actually, and then I want a model of all of 1.53 going to dispatch. Okay. And had one model that recognizes this at very low. This How a lot of, take dispatch. No, that's kind of like, that's not giving Any No, but like a little bit more, but to the a l be a tiny bit more of A percentage. Right. Okay. Well, so what if we did seven,
five plus? Okay, so five, No. Mm-hmm. Well, okay, so 0.75 of this house, 0.50 to control. And then, And that leaves 0.28. So 0.7 5.5 and 0.28. Exactly. Okay. What 0.7, 5.5 and 0.28. Right. And the 0.75 dispatch. Yeah. Point five oh patrol 0.28 A o. Would, would you like us to model like how much insurance could go up
with any of this percentage as well? No. How about you? I don't know. I just don't, I mean, I, I disagree with that. This money's pensionable, but benefits are not. Right. Yeah, I don't think so. Actually Discuss with that of everybody votes. So it's there across the board, the cash lead stuff. Mm-hmm. And so, so if we gotta vote for the cash and move to pay these, what my numbers four are getting, let them keep
or we put that elsewhere, what are the options to put that towards again, or the district towards benefit Or benefit? I mean, I, the, the whole thing about cash and lie, it's supposed to be used for benefits. I'd feel little bad if we didn't use all benefits. Like I don't, I don't think that that would be a, based on the contract says Yeah. Right. I see what you're saying. That, but um, but we've, but we've established that if we give you cash and lie back, the district will raise money on that. Well, we make money this year, but in following years, is that you, we've already said that's gonna expire.
Right. And by raising that, we're gonna be on the hook for that money in the future. Yes. True. So I mean, in one year, yes, the district would benefit, the employees would not, but over the long term the, the employees would benefit. The district would not. That that's the whole reason for the majority of the employees would benefit. Um, well long term. I mean, eventually whoever's taking cash is not gonna be here and there will be long, I'm talking long term. Yeah. Yeah. Will be a benefit to the employees more than the district. We'll, well pay out more. Right. That's, I I mean I appreciated
your, your math and actually it was a really good argument. Like, good job, dick. No, it, no, it was a fantastic argument. Well, you did say yes when I said, so the district gets more money, you said Yes. And I was like, okay. No, no, but it, it is only that for sure. 'cause over the long haul though, that's Yeah. Finance be like, dude, you know, we pay this every year. Mm-hmm. Right. So along those same lines, because we've established that there is a savings in, in getting rid of the cash in blue. If we were to even get closer on the benefit credit of 1 95, 1 92, 180 9,
I just don't feel Lauren, that a $9 per pay period increase in benefit credit as much. I don't feel like that's much at all. I feel like it could be better. Understood. I know it could be better. So I, and I know that we agreed to come back to that. So I think we will. I also wanted to address, because we're talking about this, um, you know, shift differentials. Speaking of shift differentials, I cannot find it. I've asked our predecessor, that's the right word. Yes. It's, um, they said that was negotiated in the contract,
I guess two years prior. I, well, it was in the negotiation. I told him that it's not in the contract, but that it was agreed upon, like we're here. And that is also something that we wanted to discuss. But Is shift differential typically added into the collective bargaining agreement or is it typically added into, into the pay schedule? Um, could be either. Okay. Depending how, I mean, if it's a separate salary schedule for different shifts, it would probably just be the salary schedule. If it's the same salary schedule would be the neglect borrow agreement.
Different shifts, Like we're talking swing shift graveyard type things or Yeah, yeah. Right. Swing shift graveyard, you know, weekend versus weekday. There's, so in, in the previous contract negotiations for the, for the union in 2022, that was the last time it happened. Mm-hmm. I was there and that was not discussed. Oh. Uh, prior it was to, I think it was the, Well we just went through, we've spent 16 hours going through our contract and we have not seen the word shifted. No, not in contract. I agree. Yeah. But It, but it was discussed here. Ah, in this
Type of on salary schedule. Yes. Gotcha. But I, I can't find, and they were supposed to look to tell me where, but not la not previous three years. The one before that, I don't know if you were here for that one. I was not here for that negotiations. But, um, if it, it may have been discussed, I have no idea. But if it was agreed to, it would be in the contract. It's not in the contract. Right. It's not in the contract. Don't know how that, that's what we're trying to figure out. So we know, But we're paying Seth currently Correctional, correct? Mm-hmm.
Or swings and grades not for weekends. Right. It's, it is just strictly based on hours in true pay. And if you And I, I don't even know what the hour cutoff is or isn't. I know sometimes my paycheck will have like 0.5 shift differential pay If you went into the swing shift hours Mm Hour then. Which is at 2:00 PM though? Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah. From two to 10 and then 10:00 PM to six, That's what it is in. Okay. And you add that in on true pay? No, That's payroll automatically does it, it's automatically,
it's 50 cents an hour or swing and 75 per grade. But It's automatically, I thought it was point, I thought it was 45 cents for swings. It is 50 and 75. Okay. Um, but it's automatically built into true pay on. So if it was in that original contract, didn't get moved into this one, how do you, how do we tackle that? Um, well I can look up the historical agreement. I mean, if it's not there, it's not there. I mean, if we wanna include that, that's up to the discussion we'd have to have. If that's something you'd wanna, would that have been just chief Making that decision?
Possibly. Probably Yes. I think e or that's what I was told. Say say that again. Eaton and Garant was what I was told. Oh, correct. Yeah. 'cause Eaton brought the, essentially brought the union in for the first, the first union, but I don't know that it's ever been a union agreement. I thought it was just they agreed that you guys should get some type of shift to return. It went at that rate and it's never changed since, since it's been there. Hmm. But I wasn't a part of the union negotiations at that very first time either. So I guess we have to work on, I've never been told it was part,
I've never read that either That I Do other collective bargain agreements have shifted differential, Not other one that, that are doing or should. How, how, how will explain Abg ab GW does. Yeah, I was gonna say, I thought one other does, and that might have been little electric. I, I don That'd be custo, Zach custodian, Uh, it, it is facilities, trades people, plumber and electricians also grounds and warehouse. That makes sense. They're the closest to a ship work type thing. But eventually CW and FM a do typically the facilities all kind of work the same. I I'd have three read. I don't remember man.
I know AB definitely is that wanna work with more reason. Just once, I'm just going off obvious say the word that's, I'm just wondering how we tackle that. If it's not written anywhere, Kathleen, Pull the contractor. I mean, we'll add it right now. Well, Yeah, no, that is the question too. I, I'm not sitting either Kathleen's the one put in, uh, last time 'cause I worked with her on the specifics of it. I guess there's some, some, some unions maybe that you have to be four hours into that shift to get the shift in control. And I remember having a conversation with her about
how we just wanted to get you in that shift. Mm-hmm. Well, Lawrence, it's something that's currently existing is something that we have right now. And so I guess I would ask the district, can we increase our shift differential? Um, well, I mean that's, that's gonna cost more money as far as department. I'm gonna, if if chief's budget can cover that and we'd have to discuss that. Um, as far as additional money, I'll give a budget of what we can do. Right. If it's in the contract, it doesn't come out
of the 3% that you bought or It does. Yeah, it does. Well, and unless we get a special exemption for it, like longevity doesn't come out of the, out of the right. That, that's what I'm asking. Right. Yeah. But, um, to increase the, the shift differential pay, um, my assumption is, I'll be told that's party a 3%. Hmm. Longevity used to come out of the, the quote 3% that we're talking about here. But the district made a decision a number of years back where it was a big fight between employee, the unions
and the, the district as far as like we should have a better own longevity. 'cause it, it's not, it's not, it's not typically a huge expense, but it was basically like a somewhere between a 0.1 and a 0.3 that was taken out of the, that 3% and the district decided, you know, we're just gonna pay those. Yeah. Yeah. So that's why that one doesn't come out. But other things that we had typically do that, that just made me think of something too. Um, I asked you to model those different, um, pay schedules then you, you volunteered to also put in the one time, if you're at your, if you're at your max pay,
you'll put in the, the one time. Okay. Well I like be able to do more digging to see if I can get more of this differential. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. I think we're essentially concluded for today coming up right on noon. Okay. I know, like I said, we're closer than we were this morning and that's, that's the progress. A lot more accomplished. Do we wanna try to talk about scheduling?
Sure. Yeah. So our entire department essentially is out the next two weeks for our inservice. Are you in next week's inservice or you the Week after? I think I'm the week after, but I think I'm instructing next week. Next think the week after or both. I have a meeting right after this to figure that out for certain, but no, uh, What week is the in? It starts next week, next Wednesday. It starts next week. Oh, Early. Um, a little, It starts Wednesday. Oh, sorry. That's where my confusion Was. Right. I was confused too. So it starts, so here we are today, the 30th
and it starts on Wednesday the fourth Is firearms on the sixth. Nick, I'm not certain either, so Oh, You want me to look it up? Sure. Well, I mean, I'm, I'm assuming you all be very busy during that time as well. Yeah, we we're out on Friday the sixth. We're at, uh, retreat Barns is on the 13th. I think I would go to the, I think you're right. Yeah. First. No, you Oh, 13th. Can't do it on that day. No, absolutely not. Whatcha Talking about, That's why actually Mine is actually the 18th. So very close to you. We met on a Friday 13th.
It was always a good day. Mine's 14th. Ah, a wonderful time in June. I know June wedding. Mm-hmm. And it's actually relatively nice here in June. June and Oklahoma. It's like 110 degrees. Yeah. Yeah. No, you know, no one goes to outdoor weddings in Oklahoma and June. Ah, you just don't do it. You just don't go outdoors. That takes us. I need Help. That takes us to Friday the 20th. Yeah. When my friends had outdoor weddings in June, you just give 'em the stank face. Like really, Really? You're gonna do that to
us? Yeah. Especially people like me that burn that sunburn. Like I don't tan, I burn. That's Fair. Friday the 20th. I'm off that day, but you guys don't need me. Okay. Of course we, Oh then I, I don't, I don't wanna, I no, I I do mean that necess Saturday. I, I get here Jenny, but I also don't wanna hold people up. We like Yeah, the 20th can work then I think we should try do that. Um, by then again, I hope to have, be able to figure out the shift differential. Um, and if I should find it. Shift differential comes out of what?
Budget or percentage? If We're already, if we're already paying it, the current amount is already there. And I'm assuming that comes out. I don't your budget. I don't know that for sure, but yeah, it comes outta somewhere, but it's already already in existence. Just Figure Out the increase is what would've to come outta somewhere For me. You can't do the, you're teaching academy. Well, I'm not coming alone, so we gotta pick another day. Sorry, Thursday the 19th. I need that whole entire Oh, do you? It's a holiday. Can I put them on a admin and get other testing done that day?
Sure. I can amount that. It would take four out. We, yeah, you can do that if you want to keep it on. You guys are a tough, I like I was, hope we wrap it up today and I don't blame us for not wrapping it up. Don't e either side. I mean, and we've had really good conversation. I do think we're closer. I'm hoping we can get it wrapped up. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I hope so too. I think then especially numbers I have seen. Well, and we'll send 'em to you beforehand so you can look at 'em. Okay. Um, just because it helps when you have them ahead of time versus here look. Yeah. Yeah. Right, right, Right. And then if I find and figure out the shift,
I'll share that with Sure. Everybody a break too. Yeah. We'll, we'll get, we'll get different models on this. What's Figure. Okay. So would you be To just last weekend this week? Well, Fridays, he was here the rest the week either Yesterday. Yeah. I was like he was here rest of the, So the entire time. Oh. This week. Right. And if I can make that, get all their new hire stuff way Right. Work. Has any of you guys free on the 11th? That was not property. Are any of you free
Wednesday, June 11th? Oh yeah. No, we're back to that. Yeah. Well, but do you all have to be there? Yeah, That's my week. Oh, that is your week. So I'm there. Okay. Yeah, our site Rachel be there. Active killing I think. Okay. This is, we'll you'll just make them do something else. Will it be okay to get their, um, all the new hired quiz test stuff done? Yeah. Okay. Okay. What time? Same time? Sure. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I like it. 12. Yeah. All right. Sounds good.
And then, um, academy will be in here so we'll need to find somewhere. Um, dispatch academy's in here, but we'll just kick them out. Okay. It'll be fine. Are you sure? Yeah. It's only two people. Yeah. Okay. Maybe, maybe three. Okay. But They'll just be computers set up in here, but they can go out the bull pen and do their Yep. Mandatory report. We give a laptop. Okay. Yeah. Cool. That sounds perfect. Alright, well with that we will end for the day Bernie.