##VIDEO ID:HUkb4ZAgITE## Allan you want a mic check really quick yep got it gave a all right this going to be a one minute warning one minute warning couldn't hear you once again please one more time Allan please Alan Steinbeck is here that was good thanks all right so we are going to get this council meeting going today is February 3rd and I call this meeting to order up first is going to be our invocation by our one and only Pastor Steve Ferris for the First Baptist Church of Dustin thanks for being here Father in heaven we just thank you for your goodness and grace and the Lord that that You' blessed us to be here tonight each and every one that's able to come Lord you bless this nation beyond anything ever in the history of the world and Lord there's a lot of changes going on and we need need your guidance and your help and Lord uh to be able to bear with one another with all through these changes that go and Lord I pray tonight for wisdom as that the our councilman and our people here discuss things for the future Lord I just pray you'd lead and guide them and Lord again we just want to thank you for your goodness and your grace in Jesus name amen all right with a not here Jimmy want to do the honors I pledge aliance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God indivisible with liberty and justice for all all right well thank you all for being here those in person and online and I hope everyone had a wonderful magical snow day snow week um so with that we will get right into the cons agenda approval um with councilwoman AAR not here I was just going to take hers unless someone else was going to grab it okay I just need to all right and I would like to pull uh 3A for discussion on the consent all right and then I was gonna 3 a I had an item I wanted to talk about also the three e all right and I was hoping to talk 3B with the master plan AB e and I got B A and E will be pulled sorry yeah yep so moved all right I got a motion second all right I got one more M oh you got one as well oh yes sir um I need to uh I'm going need to move uh 6A number three to the next meeting if we can please 6A okay 6 A3 yeah that's going to be the nor ordinance all right if we can just put that back under my name on the next meeting be great thank you right yes sir perfect and uh I want to add um under my name two number two I guess would be uh residential design standards okay we'll talk about it when we get there all right this is what happens when we miss a meeting are you talking about engagement policy that's uh I was just going to just put under my name and then have a staff bring us up to speed on that yep all right so with all that everyone kind of understand where we're at we'll figure it out as we roll all right with that I got a motion in a second and I'll call the vote Ray oops my consultant over there blond blind over there where is I guess I got to go out to Chrome and all right there we go I have it 60 so moved all right um and we're going to be pushing the a the D stuff a little bit of updates all right Jump On In yeah our D rep wasn't able to be here tonight he was going to be here before we had the snow mageddon so he has shared the latest construction progress at noro point and also for the Joe's Bayou Matty Kelly Improvement project so we'll just go through a couple of the highlights you guys have the full list and then also for anyone in the room or listening in we did put up on the website the full list so that you can spend more time on it if you want um but just some of the highlights at noro completion is expected by the end of this week for the shoreline stabilization at the harbor entrance which includes the site grading and placement mats installation of the pilings for the boardwalk are about halfway done and the piles for the Dune crossovers are at 80 80% completion with the piles for the restroom and Pavilion complete and then he did our D rep did list some of the work that's either going to be started started uh this week or within the next 30 days and here's a few of those things um they expect to begin construction of the restroom facility uh and that should be actually done by miday they're going to begin Framing and decking of Dune crossovers number 1 through three and that's expected to be completed mid-march and then the framing and decking of the harbor Boardwalk is expected to be completed mid April and they're looking at late 2025 um June have it all done this of course can change due to weather traffic around the area and such and one of the concerns that the D rep um asked us to express was that going into March and April with the amount of boat traffic anticipated during spring break especially by the rental boats and the beverage barges that may desire to pull up on the harbor side while Works being conducted that they would love some help on that from um the city the county the harbor Authority anybody that can help them out to ensure that doesn't impede their progress okay and again uh on our website on our main page toward the bottom under news and info you can find all sorts of different City activities but this in particular has a lot more de detail that the D rep shared all right as for Joe's byou and MD Kelly Park can I interrupt you please before you go absolutely do we know if the um construction fencing is going to be installed all the way down norgo Point regardless of the pro like where the the project is because if there's fencing down the down there shouldn't there not be an issue with boats uh I would think not we can certainly follow up and find out okay if you don't mind checking that out um because I'd like to be proactive in what the city can provide for the assistance so if they're going to put fencing there that should block boats I would assume but if we could just get a little bit more details before March it be great just so we can maybe as a Council see if there's something we should do out there yeah and I do know that they've placed the signage but I think you're right the more the more we can get out there the better yeah okay as for Joe's BYO wait a minute I've been posing in oh I'm sorry I thought you probably didn't see it because I didn't do it I don't see you on here I do have a question though what's the status of our parking along the ex the extension of Gulf Shore because we'll have a park with no parking if we don't find out and I suppose Miss cop you may have some kind of a handle on what's going on yeah that road is um pretty much complete other than the final lift and so when the park is done they were going to finish up the um painting and the striping but other than that it's done it's going to be ready good thanks all right councilman TRL yeah I was just ask question can they can boats still Park in the embayments that are on the opposite side of Nora point during construction or are those blocked off as well well from what I recall I actually think that they were going to put the construction fencing on the embayment side not on uh the harbor side but I want I don't want to commit to that because we haven't talked about it in a while so we'll get the information and bring it back next time but my recollection early on was the fence was not going to go around the entire thing but that may have changed okay thank you councilman Bagby yeah uh a question for an answer for next time um do we we want to just say hey until it's complete until we cut the ribbon no boat parking on the harbor side of Nora point and then you know I don't want to get into the well we need all the help we can get in enforcement just say no this easy to enforce because if they change their standard every week of well you can park from here to here because we finished that but no next week you can't par you know it's just confusing just say no parking you can definitely say that and D would be thrilled if Council said that I just think um we haven't said it yet so they're hoping okay well I know there's a lot going on in that whole area but uh we'll see all right and that is a clear board back to you all right so for as for Joe Bou and Matty Kelly Park Improvement project the field investigations the data collection the public Outreach uh survey and all of that has been done and anybody that wants to find out more information about that there's a Jo Bayou website a dedicated website that will be uh kept up to date all throughout the construction phrase phase so that's it's a it's a pretty nice website with lots of detail and diagrams and information on there um but some of the just highlights that the D rep shared were that the permit applications have been submitted and to to um a couple of places the public notifications were completed by both permitting agencies with no objection the D permit has been received and we're waiting for the Coe permit once the Coe permit is received the 9% plans will be finalized and reviewed with City staff and presented to the parks and rec committee and of course you all in city council we're anticipating that this month or next that's when that'll happen and then those plans will be submitted for review to the city's Development Department to receive its do its development order at that time D will advertise for construction bids um upon the receipt of the do and we're expecting um advertisements for bids and award of construction to be through the May July 2025 time frame and then uh they said they're looking at February 2027 still for substantial completion of construction cos Bagby hey Larry can you have whoever's working the uh permitting send me who they talk to at the court of Engineers because I have lots of contacts over there I can usually find where it is get it unlocked Perfect all right that's it good deal all right with that we will move we'll move into the public comments portion of this meeting so we will start with my left y'all's right and please uh come on down and I guess I'll put my uh public notice out there that if you are here to speak on anything from the public hearings we will have our Open Session specifically for those topics and that will be your time to do so yes sir name and address Don Dallas 442 Snapper how about the sunshine cool 70 something degrees hey I got a little adab boy going out today usually I don't boy things loud uh live o that's one of the companies that are putting a conduit down for the Fiber Optic Cables they're doing I don't know how much of my street but quite a bit as well as Wanita and from what I saw they're doing an excellent job okay Mike you heard that okay uh I asked them a few questions I wasn't bugging them but you know certain things of course all my sprinklers are out there and I was kind of worried about them hitting them and stuff like that uh they answered all my questions I checked my sprinklers today because I drained them for the 20° mess and they all work so I'm I'm tickled to death so at a boy to y'all for getting them guys down there thank you that needs to be an award they that'll boy award all right anyone else here to speak on not public hearings all right see yes yes sir put the push the gray button there you go okay my name is Steve NP and I live at 126 Country Club Drive West and I want to start by saying thank you to all of y'all and the city for coming out and putting in a swell that's um helped some of the flooding issues over on on the street and I appreciate the uh the cleaning out the drain that really helped a lot too but I'm coming to tonight on another issue I just want y'all to be aware of it but over on the corner of TP in Indian Bayou North there's a big hole right beside of the where the cover is at and whenever the kids whenever it snowed and all I just hate to see one of these kids get hurt and um few months back I think it was the city road department or somebody that went over there and put a cone in it to to mark it but um you know how kids are and I just don't want any of them to get hurt and I want to tell you again thank y'all for helping me get my flooding issue addressed it's not fixed but it's a lot better than it was and I appreciate it I appreciate you bringing that up yep yes sir thank you all right seeing that we'll close the public comment portion of the meeting and move along I will do uh motion to approve three c three Delta 3 F 3 G and 3H on the consent agenda appreciate that I have a motion do I hear a second seconded by councilman Deston seeing nothing I will call to vote all right eyes have it on that and we will start with 3A cman Dustin was that you NOP that was me uh yeah I would um and I talked to the staff about this during my time period we're we're going about this a little awkwardly we want contractors to come in and tell us what they think is wrong with the community center and then give us a bid on what they think is wrong and what we should be doing is having an RFP to have an inspector or somebody who's qualified to inspect buildings come in and say this is why you have water leaks this is why you know so it's these two windows and that part of the roof and this door and all this other stuff and then that's the statement of work that we put out for a contractor as opposed to uh having gc's come in because they might miss something or they you know then we're not comparing Apples to Apples we're car comparing apples to oranges based on what they found and not what actually exists because maybe they're stronger on doors or they're stronger on roofs or whatever so I would ask that we direct staff to uh develop an RFP for an inspection of the community center to bring us back the laundry list of everything we want repaired to fix the leaks fix the wind fix everything in the uh Community Center yeah yeah jump in I I do you have a motion I'll second that motion all right I have a first and a second cman goal jump in that proposition is is exactly how people get rich off change orders as a contractor I can't tell you how many times an inspector or an engineer comes out and sets the scope of work that do does not understand waterproofing does not understand Roofing does not they have a basic knowledge of general practice but they don't have the uh in-depth knowledge of waterproofing or Roofing or repairs and I've made fortunes off change orders just off that type of scenario where you have an inspector you have an engineer write a scope of work that doesn't understand and when we uh reach a point where it doesn't apply real world or it needs to be extended beyond what they recognize that's when I I Mark things up like ungodly so I mean I think you're opening yourself up for for the potential of uh a change order higher cost in the end yeah and and I would just say my experience is just the opposite of that okay where we didn't know what we wanted we had the general contractor the expert come in and tell us what we needed and then oh he missed this because because he didn't have expertise in Roofing or expertise in sealing the envelope the building envelope and so he presented us with change orders that would you know on something we told him you know what what do we need to fix this problem so I think we're going to open ourselves up either way I just I think the way you solve that is you get a an inspector who knows what the heck they're doing and can write and that's not necessarily an engineer that is you know Scout I've had water detection folks come in from all over the place and say okay this is what's leaking on your roof this is what's leaking on the doors this is what's leaking on the Windows this is because most of it's water intrusion and I'm not saying we should use hydr Scout or any specific company I'm just saying get somebody who knows what the heck they're looking at and say this is what needs to be fixed to stop all the water leaks in this building because this will be the third time since I've been up here that that we have fixed the leaks on the community center and guess what we still haven't fixed the leaks on the community center so I'm just trying to figure out what's the best way to do this and having a con a general contractor come up and say okay here's what here's what needs to be done and then you got six of them and they're all different because one guy says two doors one guy says four doors one company says you know three windows in a door and it's like what what needs to be done and so they're going to give us all different numbers I'm not sure how we compare those numbers but I I I get what you're saying I've had the same problem just the obverse of that that falls back to hiring the right expert just like you're saying the right inspector the right engineer as long as you hire the right contractor hold them accountable then you have uh dbpr as a recourse if they don't finish it properly but I mean that's up for discussion for for all coun right Council councilman Bren thank you didn't we pay somebody not long ago to go around all the facilities and inspect them what I've seen was we had a contractor look at the community center probably two years ago and gave a list of these doors these windows seal the roof here what we were trying to protect again was to um Speck out we want doors we want windows we want the roof seal sealed here and still have a a water intrusion problem so to Mr bagby's point that was kind of the idea of where we were trying to get to was as opposed to us telling someone what needed to be done someone saying to us this is what we will do to fix the problem of water intrusion and to have some means to hold them accountable for doing that if that's to the general contractor which is the way the the procurement document is written that it would be where we would have a a mandatory pre-bid meeting on site and we would identify here are the problems that we're having we want to know how to fix it we're not going to tell you how to do that now if that's through a third party as opposed to a general contractor we're all about that what we wanted to protect the city against was specking out something and tell someone what to do and them come back and say well we did what you told us to do and it still didn't fix your problem so whether that's going with a general contractor to give us that information or an independent inspector we're good either way so just whatever Direction you know you wish to give us down that path we'll be glad to go because that I think that's the key is we want to have somebody that we can hold accountable for saying do these things and your problems repaired or fixed and when they're done be able to say yes it it worked or No it didn't didn't and if it didn't this is our recourse okay I I think that sounds great but I don't know that we've ever since 1984 held anybody liable for anything that they've done with a city of Destin like Jim just said they they fixed it three times and we're still leaking so what's going to change this time why ain't they held liable last time I the last three times you know we'll put the hammer in it to the degree we can and we'll lean on coun to say let's go get them you know whether we make it work or not you know that's yet to be seen but I would suggest that you know if we go down that path that we say to them now we're going to pay you to do this job we're expecting it to work and if it doesn't here's the recourse and I think that can be worked into a contract or some version um but agree and and typically that's the way governments operate we'll go down the path and we'll do something we'll pay some money and two years later say well gosh that didn't work we going to do now but we're going to try to avoid that if we can so we did not hire somebody even it was two years ago to go around to all the facilities and give us an estimate of what it's going to take to fix them and bring them up to speed I'm I'm not sure about all the facilities I know that someone reviewed the community center and provided a list of doors and windows and seal the RO it was never done Burgess so so uh councelor Braden we did hire Matrix to do a facilities condition assess assessment for all of our buildings however they weren't they did not get up on the roof um we did have a couple of local contractors attempt to seal the roof in places where we were experiencing leaks and really it's dependent on the direction the wind the prevailing wind is blowing where we have leaks uh it leaks in the foyer it used to leak over the stage and we did have a couple of contractors go up there and remove layer upon layer L upon layer of caul and putty and silicone and where past contractors had attempted to uh install it but remember that roof is only 11 years old it was installed in 2014 it was the second roof on that facility y all should have whoever went up there with a gun you should have threw him off the roof that's all I have M thank you all right appreciate it all right I do have my first and second um seeing no further discussion is uh right now the current motion is Jim to sta to bring back direct staff bring back an RFP for an inspector of the community center or inspection company or whatever to do a complete analysis of what needs to be repaired to stop the leaks and then we'll work off that and and I agree with u Rodney and I I agree with Tori the the key is making sure they do the work properly which is where we always come up short it's not identifying necessarily and it's not getting somebody to do the work it's making sure they do it properly you know it's like finishing kind of like the park down next to your place it's it's the finishing part which is the hardest C SCH go ahead don't we have somebody continuing contractor engineer consultant all the long list of people on our Rolodex that could do what you're asking I mean is there any I mean before we go to RFB for an inspector I mean can we just call an inspector to have him inspect the community center without an RFB possibly we we could Jeff and I can probably reach out to Matrix to see if they have a vendor and this Finance director here makes us get all these quotes so we can do that as well but if it if it doesn't go to um uh invitation to bid or a proposal or something like that we'll we'll probably have to get at least three quotes I I was going to point out about three years ago or maybe it was two years ago we went through the process of trying to get Contract management company we actually approved two or three firms that were put on the list to be our contract management company the best of my knowledge we've never used them what happened with that program uh we hired Matrix to fulfill that role for us and they were activ one of the contractors what's that I said I agree they are one of the contractors that got they got put on the list and so if you go back to them that is specifically what we wanted them for that's correct sir yep so I I would agree that the motion that's just been made would direct you I hope to go to them and see if they will do what it is we put them on the list to do I GL to reach out to them and I think that's likely something they could accomplish okay there was a contract that we entered into to that told us what their services should be and what we expected you might want to get that out and look at it just for fun all right with that I'm assuming we just want to keep the same motion just for a backup with that kind of being the sure I mean basically we want staff to bring it back to us and if they come back and say Matrix is ready to do this for $155,000 and the the issue in Toral second is I think with water leaks it does depend on which way the wind's blowing I mean I've chased water leaks in buildings forever and still go okay this is our guess where it's coming from so all right councilman Bren why we why are we paying the same guy to go back and do it again when he didn't get on roof the first time I don't know that they were the on they were the one was matri the on that looked at the building for us uh yes it was now the purpose of that original facility's condition assessment or one of the purposes was to establish a renewal and replacement program for all the major components of the roof and I will add and I think I feel very strongly about this is the roof on the community center is not a standing seam roof it has you know Fasteners screws and um that has been a access point uh previously hence the copious amounts of caul and Gorilla Glue they Ed to try to seal it up but um we will we'll reach out to Matrix and see if they have a roofing contractor or someone they work with that specializes in metal roofs to uh to go to a kind of a full physical of that roof all right with that I'm seeing nothing further so I will call the vote there always a third option we could start over with a new building oh touchy touchy touchy touchy touchy listen I called the vote that building has leaked since the day it was built oh I guess we got to start over all right I hav it so moved same location at the same location plus some Whatever Gets the [Laughter] votes Mr Mayor uh could I get the clerk to read back that motion so we know exactly what we've been charged to do all right sorry Ray I was having fun up here motion is to have uh Council approves the advertisement of RFP 2501 Rec and uh to have a an inspector conduct a complete uh analysis of what needs repaired at the community center we didn't approve any RFP bring us back either a contractor or an RFP that will fix the water leak problems in the community center via an inspection not not repairs just an inspection so we know what we need to fix okay all right right moving on uh before we move on I want to clarify one thing I do not agree and if you're still getting a water leak regardless Wind Blows you got the wrong roof all right so one thing you said you thought I'd agree with I I just got to tell you I don't I do that wasn't the part that you'd agree with the part you agree with is chasing down water leaks can sometimes you can chase those forever if you're the wrong roofer yeah well I must have well it's not just the roof because the drain pipes and things like that all right uh 3B so that's going to be mine um I was just kind of going through the line items of everything and since we've been sharpening our pencil with staff I just figured I might as well bring some things to our attention that when we have a lot of uh public input events there's pretty small attendance and some of just there's several on here that I was like uh you know it's not necessarily in the bid but I can see where they're coming from but again it was just a large number and I and I want us to have this program go through but some of them were like the park site evaluation um it's $7,200 um that's something that I know our Parks committee is tasked to do and whether they have it or not in here they had it for 33 days to go through with their clipboard and do the park evaluation um again they might have their own questions or observations so um some of the other ones that I was like oh come on this is maybe possibly redundant uh was some of the surveying the statistic valid survey two 2.3 for $116,000 I feel between the SRS plan the citizen survey even potentially even some of the mobility PL surveying like I just feel like for $166,000 to have yet another survey perhaps yes specific to our Parks but I mean I I feel like we should have a pretty good pulse of of what's going on again I don't know if this again would make them retract their bid Al together if we started clipping this apart the last one that was was really like man that's that's quite a lot for something we're probably going to do by ourselves anyways which is 3.1 Park recreation system visioning Workshop we have a visioning workshop coming up already and now we're going to pay $6,300 for them to host a visioning workshop either with or without us with staff um so again I I I want this park um thing to go through I guess uh but at the end of the day I found upwards of $50,000 that I think were redundant um and I'm not here to like slash this thing apart but I just wanted to bring attention to about 20K of things that are really like I feel like we just did this did we not and so with that it's just more open discussion and uh councilman dtin take the floor I tend to agree with you mayor there are a number of things here that we've already done I think it's too much money this is the company that worked for us just a little while ago right I don't think so they have not worked for us before no this is a uh yeah this is a different group but I feel like a lot the other group did a bunch of it already Yes we we've we just have gone through this and spent this money um so yes that's kind of where I'm at yeah and I I'm not satisfied that the money is well spent and I didn't intended to vote against it anyway so at least we are agreeing on some of it all right all right councilman treml on the other side no actually I I agree with some of it but however what there they're looking at is much more inde depth than what SRS did and the other surveys that we've had done um we know we need more green space we know they we want more Parks what do we want in them that's not for us to decide that's what this group should help us decide that's what their surveys are doing that's what their charettes are doing I went through the same thing today and I think a lot of it can be done online because look what look at the response we got from Joe's buy you what they wanted in Joe's bu you we've never asked the citizens that question SRS kind of said oh yeah we get more Parks oh yeah we'll get more green space okay but what do we want in that you know so that's where this one is a little different um anything that that we spend money on is too expensive right now but that's that's the times we live in I think all of it is too expensive but I think there's a lot of things that I mean we looked at uh the CRA Master plans we already knew what the CRA needed we need a master plan for the parks as well because we need to know what we're going to do 10 years from now that's where our budget lies not what we're doing at this visioning session in in a month so I think that's going to help us keep that direction and keep staff on the same direction and Council as well um all in the same direction and give everybody a little bit better uh opportunity to have input than what we've done before so that was just my little two sets all right fair enough councilman Bagley yeah I tend to agree with you and Mr dtin and and a little bit with Sandy here the there were some of these things uh you know like collect and analyze demographic information for the community okay this will be the eighth time in the last year and a half we have analyzed the demographic distribution of people in in this community so do we really need them to do that the and we directed or I thought we directed I'll have to go back and check my notes that the parks Foundation consultation be included in this RFP and I didn't see where that was you know that they were going to meet with the parks Foundation which is I think I hope part of the solution going forward with the parks in this community so um I you know part of this is in the management part of this is wow that's a lot of money to give us what 90% we could provide just sitting down meeting with them and then let them do some meetings with the citizens so I I would almost ask that we we pull it and look at it and say nope don't need that don't need that don't need that and kind of do a line by line but part of that is you know we've got a new city manager and we're but the the fact that the parks Foundation I didn't see that in there and it may be hidden in all those pages but I didn't see it and I know and I'm 90% sure I asked that that be included in the consultation so councilman dson I think perhaps a good compromise would be to table this until the meeting after the visiting session and give us an opportunity the visiting session to trim it down to what we think is more appropriate and I will make that motion I'll second all right I have a motion in a second any further comments all right seeing none I'll call the vote all right 42 if I can all right eyes have it so moved all right [Music] 3E I would uh like to to get a little synopsis of what's going on here having been dealing with credit card processors and folks who want to who want to add on the credit card fee for me and for for years and years and I I guess my question is for for Crystal at the moment we're not charging for the credit card fee we're paying it is that correct that's correct um the city pays it pays the uh all the merchant service fees okay and we process our credit charges credit card charges through some company right uh the the primary credit card processor that we're using right now is Global Payments uh they were chosen because they're one of very few credit card processors that would work with energov which is also known as Compass uh now that we're moving away from the energov compass um software and we're moving moving to MGO uh payar provides the same processing services at a much uh a much more affordable rate okay and and so they're going to charge 3% is that correct that's correct and they will be charging our customers that and not us right so we have that option and that's what we're going to discuss tonight uh so the the contract that we have on the table there's in appendix 2 we can choose if we want them to charge that 3% credit card convenience fee to um people who want to to pay online or use their credit cards or if we don't want them to charge that um if they charge it to the um to the customers then those funds become available for the city of dtin to pay our 3% if they don't charge it to our customers then it's just something that comes right out of the general fund as it's for right now it comes right out of the payment correct so we we have that option yes for for now the city of D is just paying those fees okay so my question is having just negotiated some of these things I saw that you had some figures in our report that said we had paid a certain amount of fees on the credit card charges it was what was it 188,000 or close to 200 uh yeah for the um the last three years it's been trending up upwards um to Global Payments we've been paying between 150 to 180,000 a year for their credit card processing services and then we pay an additional $60 plus thousand to passport parking but that's similar but a different type of service okay so what does that come out to as a percentage that we're paying because these credit card processing companies they set your fee based on how many credit card the amount of money you process so what did how many there are a lot of different the the fee schedules with our credit card processor with Global Payments I put an example uh invoice in the packet under the uh city manager report so we can talk about if uh if we want to pass that fee on to customers or not and you'll see in that Global Payments invoice example how complicated the calculation is it's not just a simple per transaction fee there Gateway fees uh interchange fees uh and they all have different prices per transactions and they also depend on what type of card is being used the the calculation is um it's very complex it is but there is a way to get around it you take the amount of money you ran through your system in a month take the amount of money that you paid and you get an average and I do so the average with Global Payments is about 7% 7% correct how in the world and with payar it would average out to be 3% I'm sorry payar it would average out to be 3% why why in the world that is an astronomically high amount I agree we pay between 1.8 and 2.1% in my restaurant businesses yeah again the reason they were chosen is because they were only they were one of only two options that would work with our intergov Encompass system okay now we pay in way too much but this one sounds better now the question is they're going to charge our the customer 3% is my understanding well that's that's the choice that we need to make tonight is do we want to continue paying it directly ourselves as a city of Destin or do we wish to pass that fee on I understand that part what I'm trying to figure it out is how they make money how do you think they make money if if we were being charged 3% and they're going to charge 3% that's a net zero how do they make money no that I I think you're misunderstanding they're payar will get its 3% I'm sorry payar will get its 3% either way I understand whether we choose to pass that fee whether we ask them to charge our customers for it or not if they charge our customers for it it just means that now the city of Destin will receive $103 instead of a $100 on a credit card payment for a $100 feal I understand that part right so $3 let me see if I can help let me ask a question because I know how they make their money I want to know if you know how they make their money they charge 3% because they do such a volume of credit card the credit card companies will only charge them 1.8 1.5 so they're keeping the rest of the money and that's how they make money the question is why can't we put the 3% on as a convenience fee on our actual bill that we give to our customers and keep all 3% or 8% if if the credit card processor charges us 2.2 that yeah go go ahead um Andy wants to answer that but that's okay well I thought that's how they made money but I wasn't sure if I should say it but in order to work directly with Visa or Mastercard American Express and the other companies we would have to build out banking infrastructure so do what we would have to build out certain kinds of banking infrastructure so I would need a bank with an account that could do a nightly batch and take you know take take the money from the customer and hold it and then give it to us at night and then somehow Visa then is going to have to have their bank send them a bill and all other kind of stuff so we don't want to build out that banking infrastructure which is what a payment service company provides and it used to be in the old days when I worked at a pizza restaurant remember you'd Slide the thing over the top of the card take an imprint and take it to your bank and your bank would do the processing for you now in order for me to work directly with visa and MasterCard I would have to know those bank account numbers I'd have to keep them in a PCI Compliant database and I'd have to be very very careful I'd have to build out banking infrastructure in in our databases and things like that we want to avoid doing that and so does MGO the new software provider so where we get out of that business we let a payment processor do all that for us now am I confused government entities do not operate in the credit card realm the same that businesses all over the country do well currently Destin is not holding any credit card information or anything like that we don't look at it as soon as the customer puts it in the machine it's encrypted and gone and that's exactly what we do at the restaurants so the only reason I ask is even 8% which is the difference in what they're going to charge and probably what they're going to get charged but we could keep that money over a number of years that ends up being quite a lot of money so I'm I'm confused about about what you're doing differently than we are in business we put the card with the chip in it and that's the end of it we don't see it I'd like to know too do you who do you use for a payment processor to you're not working directly with visa and MasterCard in American Express no we have a processor who's charging us 1.8% to 2.1% if we charge the three to three and a half that's authorized under the law now okay we get to keep the difference and that's a lot of money when you run millions and millions of dollars through which I understand the city doesn't but it still is a substantial amount of money and that's what's confusing me about the way we do it it seems totally alien from what we're doing in the business community and we're losing money well um so that is interesting so you're using a payment processor who's charging you 1.8% changes depending on your volume yeah that's right and it is a it is that's an average because like crystal said it's different for each one of them yeah but when you take what you charg in a month and see what they charge you you can come out with an average that is actually what you're paying so it would be a matter of us like in a perfect world we could go and shop around for payment vendors and find maybe the one you're using for example exactly and that's what we do on a yearly basis the one thing that's different is that the software company who we're going to use to run all the building permits in here they have to have a programming interface between this payment processor and our stuff and there's only I think there's six of them on their list that we could use we could shop around among those six we could even work with them to bring a new one in and say I want you to now integrate with them and for a cost they'll do that for us but that's a piece that you might not have in your local business it could be I'm not sure we'd have to check out in addition I'm not sure but um in your business I would assume you're doing more uh card at the point of ser at the point of sale location where they're swiping or they're tapping or this type of thing I'd say over 90% of the payments that we are receiving they are in responses to invoices uh where people are paying through a virtual terminal not a not a physical terminal at a location I'm not sure that makes a difference are you yes it does make a difference uh does make a difference because that's part of the interface and part of the fee that we're paying is they're taking uh our invoice out of currently it's energov or compass and they're giving they're attaching their links so that the person can pay in a secure environment through a virtual terminal I thought we were being pretty pretty good coming in cutting it down 4% from 7 to three but there is room clearly between three and zero so and there and there is a few other things in the contract I noticed that they specifically say they can share information on the people that use credit cards to pay our bills uh Miss cop told me because of public records that probably we couldn't stop that but I think we could say they it would not be stopping them to say they could not sell the names of people who use our credit cards to third party vendors who use them for advertising we could do that we can't say they can't have the information I also noticed that in the contract although it's not significant because there are bailout Clauses also that they have the right to raise the fees with a 60-day notice at any time you know is if this is the best we can do I guess it's the best we can do I just find it hard to believe that so councilman Bagby I got a couple on the Block yeah I just want y'all to go back and ask a question um because yes the different types of cards point of sale all that but the the break point that I can't figure out here that I want y'all to ask the processor is where are the break points dollar value okay because Mr dtin is right uh you know if if one SE grve did $10 million worth of business and we paid our processor 3 and a half% you know Newman daily comes in with their 10 billion dollar worth of business and they pay 1.5% or something and and that because the volume is the break point so I want to know where their break points are I get it everybody pays 3% well you know the Newman dailies of the world don't pay 3% or the Dewey Destin you know when you got all those restaurants they don't pay the 3% either so what what are the dollar values where our break points are you know if we process $2 million worth of credit Char card charges in a year do we get 2.5% or whatever so I would just ask you to ask them where their break points are on dollar values councilman bradden thank you um I'm definitely not an expert in this field but um a question I do have is if Mr Dustin if you're charging 2 and a half% on credit cards and you're paying one and a half is the credit card companies cutting you a check for the difference if you charge if you put it on a customer bill they do but we don't do that well people do because I I was trying to figure out how we'd get our money back if you know we're going to make money on it or if we're getting two or 3% and we're going to charge 4% is that our payment processor they're going to cut us a check back for the difference I think we just hold it but it goes to the pay give them their fee 4% and pay them three that's how that work so may maybe I can I'm GNA try to answer that question for you councilman Braden so right now um building department sends you an invoice for $100 because you just applied for some sort of applica you just put in some application so you click on that right now you're going to pay the $100 the city will receive the full $100 but at the end of the month the credit card processing company is going to tally up all of the transactions of all the different types and all the different categories and they're going to take out what they feel that they've earned according to their schedule of fees so what we're proposing is instead of sending you we're going to still make our invoice to you for $100 but now they're going to automatically put on a 3% credit card convenience fee so you can come into the City and pay with a check or uh another method um and avoid that 3% convenience fee altogether or you can go online uh and pay with your credit card the city will then receive the full $13 and again the credit card processor will do the same thing they're going to go through at the end of the month their fee is not going to be any different than it they don't care either way if we choose to collect that 3% or not but the $103 comes into our account and again they calculate how much they've earned in in fees for processing for the month does does that help at all yes then we we got to cut them a check for what so right so once a month they tally up all the trans actions of the different types and they they uh they take their money and we keep what's left okay makes more sense thank you right I don't think I have a motion on the floor motion to approve all right I have a motion to approve by councilman Bagley second in by councilwoman treml councilman deson final words one more one more comment since we do have a very convenient bailout Clause if they can't tell us the questions the answers then it sounds like we can terminate it pretty quickly can't we City attorney yeah there's termination for convenience without penalty and with the fee raising they can't just arbitrarily raise the fee for no reason it's if their costs go up for the reasons listed in the contract they could give us 60 days notice to raise the fee and if we weren't happy with that like you said we could terminate the contract right and and I don't really care about that part what I care about is how much of that 3% they're going to give us if any and they can answer that for us rather than right now the they're keeping the three all 3% they are keeping 3% in this contract if we want to try to renegotiate that business term then we can we can tell them that the council has rejected the contract and only wants to give them 2% and keep 1% for the city or whatever it is well I would like to see us make money because every Merchant and every restaurant in this town keeps a percentage of that 3% it's part of standard operating procedure and we sell gift cards and merchandise online where they don't put any credit cards in a terminal so there's really no difference that I can see there I I think the only difference the main difference not the only difference that staff is trying to articulate is that because of the other software we have our options are more limited than a restaurant because they have to be able to work with our permitting software and all interact when we had the 7% the reason the city entered into that is because there were even less options nobody works with compass UB but now we're switching that software so we have a little bit more we can still try to negotiate the fee but it's not exactly the same as the options that you would have yeah and I would just point out that we've got a new system coming and 88% of $3 million a year is $24,000 a year I bet we could write some kind of software that would handle that for $224,000 a year AP are you uh making a sub or we just going with it all right all right it's on the floor call call the question all right eyes have it uh that was the approval of yep all right we are through the consent agenda city manager keep them coming thank you Mr mayor council members uh our first item is 4 a is an update on the community development director position um as we've briefed each of you um Mr Lewis has not been able to join us in that capacity uh certainly if he gets to a position where he can we've encouraged him to apply for the job but we do have it posted uh we presented to you earlier maybe last week the applicants that we had um nothing that we're real excited about not even a little little bit excited about quite frankly but I will tell you that uh we have um expanded our reach and as of today we are on the front page of the uh American planning association's website as a featured uh job so hopefully we'll get some quality applicants in response to that so we're excited that that we got there cman Schmidt thank you I know uh Steve's not here um I know he's working hard and staff members in that department have do we have anybody that's director supervisor who is there somebody in charge right now of Community Development Steve as the deputy director has stepped into that role and we're looking him for that leadership guidance and he's providing he put in that position as a fill in for corre director okay by by by default in his job description in the absence of the the director is it falls to him okay appreciate it yes sir thank thank you on that line of logic are we paying him double at this point is any Community well there there is a provision that his he is compensated for it and I work with Jamie and we're getting that in play yes sir all right appreciate that um item 4B is regarding our appropriation request uh previously we had brought to you and had presented the mayor at the um legislative U meeting that U we had in Crestview last month and for presented the Mad Kelly outfall for a million the cross town connector for 3 million and Clement Taylor park for a million um we the last conversation we had at Council regarding those requests we left the stallman intersection Improvement there for clarity and as we move forward but tonight we would ask that we also include that and look at a request for design of an underground facil facility uh we had looked earlier at perhaps overhead but through some research and some information we've gathered as late as today it looks like the undergrounding may be more cost effective uh certainly has some value and uh to look at it so we would ask that uh that we would add that to as our fourth component to begin our lobbying process to finish the the forms that we have them ready to submit and they will be submitted to timely to our legislative delegation for consideration into the budgeting process I will say that this is uh and we will engage our lobbyist in those efforts uh outside of this there are other opportunities that we're looking at uh with Kelly and her firm that is not in necessarily in the legislative Appropriations process uh from uh grants from agencies and other funding sources so we're we are not limitting in ourselves to these four we've given her a broader scope of what we've looked at and have some conversation about so there's some other things going on outside of these four that hopefully we'll see some progress on as well all right you need a motion to add that yes yeah we need a motion to add the stallman intersection and the underground and to confirm that these are the ones you want to move forward uh to our legislators so move there we go all right got a motion and second any further discuss questions on Appropriations plus seeing none we'll call the vote all right I have it so moved all right item 4 C is regarding our fee schedule for parks Rec um back in December you asked us to review the resolution 2321 and bring back some recommendations to update that upon reviewing um and doing some due diligence we found out that 23 resolution 2321 was never approved by the council it was presented at the first meeting in October of 2023 and it was tabled to be uh taken off the table at the second meeting in October of 2023 which never happened it was inadvertently signed uh however it was never implemented so um to make recommendations based off of that would probably not been timely because it was never adopted and they were never um put in place um um so those fees um were never implemented so we were still operating off of 2306 which is what what's in place today so um so 2321 is still there if the board if the council wishes to take any action on it uh that would we would you know bring that back for at another meeting for your consideration but there were a couple other requests at that meeting that we did follow up on and that was comparing our specifically Morgan Sports Center to our surrounding Parks uh Preston hood and Fort Walton Beach nville Frank bound and P City hel Mcall and South Walton and Publix's facility in Bay County which we didn't have much luck with the Publix's facility because that's a private entity that not subject to you know some of the public records that the others are but we were able to capture the current uh not for-profit numbers and the commercial numbers for those um surrounding in the community and you those are there provided for you uh in your um packet um we were also asked to provide and and I'm sorry it wasn't in the packet but we got it for you for this evening a a document that shows um what our actuals expenses and revenues have been historically from Morgan and what they anticipated are moving forward as well as the second sheet of the the documents you have before you are the avalum rates of the county and the other municipalities in okalo County to give you a comparison of uh what our aborm has the potential to generate and what those others are so just for your information as you as you think about this but so as far as the Morgan Sports Center if there was any uh desire to reduce those rates to be more competitive because other than hel M call we are a little more than the others there are uh we would recommend uh no more than a $150 reduction in the knock for profit or the um residential rate and a $100 reduction in the commercial rate um so those numbers there for your consideration if you wish to um do anything on that end or any you certainly do if you want to do more than or less that'd be fine as well then on the community center uh we looked at two scenarios uh the current um rate structure in in the community center is there is a flat rate for the use of the gym or the community room and then there's a variable component that uh moves depending on what the use is if you're going to have uh you know 100 people or four hours it's going to be this much more than the base rate if you're going to have 20 people for an hour it's going to be less so we kind of uh asked staff to kind of review what's going on there today and determine if there was a static number that everybody paid the same what that would be so we've provided that for you in both scenarios for the uh Community Center room rental and the gy rental so the for the room the current nonprofit residen rate is $80 plus a variable fee and if we wanted to have a static number we'd recommend that be $160 and everybody paid the 160 it's kind of like if you rent a hotel room and and I'm going to make bigger mess than um the mayor's going to make we're going to pay the same rate but uh everybody's going to get their mess cleaned up highly unlikely I'm sorry highly unlikely yeah right right right but uh so uh there's there's and the same for the uh commercial rate uh there's a static number there and when you look for the gym numbers uh those numbers are the same I mean the scenario is the same there's a variable number that we're currently charging that has a flexible component to it depending on again what's going on how long you going to use it or if you want to have just a static number everybody pays the same there's some recommended U numbers there as well from for instance the non the current nonprofit gem rate is $120 plus the variable component if we go to the static number we would recommend $320 the commercial rate is 240 plus the variable number and we would recommend that go to 480 as an across the board fee in in any of those scenarios we are U proposing that we do away with what we're know knowing as a reservation fee and make it a true deposit so that if whatever every how we come to what your rate is we're going to tell you it's $380 to rent the gym at the uh Community Center uh 240 of that is a deposit and 20 40 is due at two weeks prior to you using the facility and if you can cancel as we're proposing 60 days out you can have your deposit back the way it's structured now there's no uh refund of any upfront monies so that would be a change that does make it a indeed a true deposit on the overall rate so um waiting your direction or any questions you may have and that may have been confusing I think didn't mean it to be for I my only two question I guess my one my one comment is you know the more the residents don't pay and the more non-residents do pay the easier my job will be in a year F that's about all I got councilman Schmidt thank you thank you all for putting it all together so let's start with the uh Morgan Sports Center one just so I understand you're proposing to get away with the deposit not going it's just built in deposit would be a true deposit refundable up to 60 days up to 60 days so the proposed nonprofit fee of 1350 are there are there still going to be additional fees on top of that that are currently in the 2306 there will be a menu of items um and and so the ones inside 230 six will still stay basically like all right time to shine yeah I mean for for lining the fields for you grading and whatever we have to do in addition to just typical use and you know some of the guys could you know give you better detail on that but but yes there would be a a allart menu of things that would add to that okay um our Elite Park and recck Team all four of them are back there if you got any specifics uh so I'd like to make a motion and I'm going to go at this uh one at a time and I'll first start with Morgan Sports Complex to do the proposed 1350 price as well as remove the 15% gate fee and to charge a onetime admin fee rather than staff hours whatever you want to call it so 1350 for nonprofit remove the 15% gate fee and the one and put out $0000 admin fee instead of the hourly uh time there all right and and before I guess let me ask for a second on the motion all right to give them a chance to think about it well no I I I guess I I think I know what you're trying to do I'm just trying to find out where all all those fees are and where that because they're not on that one okay can we take down the building division thing we're not even there yet and put up the the item that we're on and you know if you're on the field rentals you know where the lights are $15 per hour additional field preparation 20 so you're keeping all that but you're taking off the gate fee of 15% for field rentals for tournament functions and then you're doing I the admin fee I'm trying to figure out which one you see because you're kind of in three different places in this document and I just want to know what the documents is going to look like so if you say the rental fee I got you know the gate fee which is on page whatever or under item uh what item is this under field reyolds okay usually they have a number uh experts okay I'm sorry you're looking for the page 347 220 Morgan Sports Complex so you're you're adjusting those which is Page 317 of this entire document that were're at least the way I have it pulled up uh I'm just trying to Fig figure out I'm not sure that I'm going to Second it I just want to know everything you want to change for Morgan Sports Center does that me yeah sure well the staff proposed to change a rental fee to be 13 something that's their only proposal so I'm proposing to accept that rather than what they would normally charge which is is a per fill fee and I'm also saying to update that table by removing the gate fee 15% and then my last clarification is the hours versus the admin on typical how many hours are we is it just that 8 to five 8 to five hour is are you guys billing for that whole entire time frame it's over over and above the uh regular working hours okay so it's after 5:00 p.m um on Saturday and all day Sunday okay and what's the rate for the what's it 30 per hour 30 so the admin the admin fee you're referring to the $25 non-refundable uh what is it called in here special event application fee or is that is that a different fee oh I'm just saying to charge a $100 admin fee rather than a hourly staff fee I mean the problem with this entire thing is it's very complicated um we're trying to make it much easier so you know in theory it used to char it used to somebody between 4 to $6,000 to rent Morgan Sports Center for a weekend $4 to $6,000 when down the street it's $2 to $3,000 so there's a problem so we're trying to clear it up a little bit so that's why I think staff proposed 16 something or 13 something what do you mean by down the street Fort Walton price of land is more expensive here than in Fort wal it is so I guess yeah it is I don't have to keep responding if you have questions but um price of land is more expensive unfortunately the quality of the land is is not up to par though at the same time so well that's why we're raising the fees so that we can I disagree though with that unfortunately you're never going to make enough money by continuing to increase these fees to fix the the recreation budget if you do that you're going to price the entire world out of coming here I mean the point of that is not to make I mean I don't know what the point of running the Morgan Sports Center is to people I don't know if it's to make money because we're not going to make money the operational cost over there is out the roof so you're either not going to have people rent it or you're going to have them rent it at a comparable price to somebody or down the street or they're not going to use it anymore but um with that I'll continue the conversations uh councilwoman traml these these were some of the questions that the master plan would have answered and we wouldn't have had gotten into them except when we saw the final result and said yes or no up or down because I think this is way too confusing and I agree with that um but we just put the master plan we just tabled that and that kind of bothers me uh the other thing that bothered me about looking at this and I'm basing this on what happened at the um Emeral Coast Conference Center they had a very small fee for nonprofits and they were being absorbed by all the nonprofits that were not Okaloosa County till the Okaloosa County folks or the commercial folks couldn't even get in so they were just overloaded and so they made the criteria at that point that nonprofits had to be within Ro okoa County and I think we need to look at that as in nonprofits First Choice should be within the city and then if we have space we can go anywhere else but to me a non they got caught and they got caught not making any money and they were in the hole and they had to change things drastically um and I don't want to have to get caught in that hole but anyway those those were just two comments I personally would like to see uh a perspective that is not basically this councils or any vendors or any committee people or any come up with a plan to help us do this within our budget so I don't know that I can support what you're saying right now because it is so convoluted not your I do like the point on that uh do we who what nonprofits use this rate outside the yeah outside little league I'm assuming or no you guys don't okay then do we get any nonprofits yes we do get nonprofits yeah some of the um tournaments are actually the directors do have nonprofit status okay literally we do not charge just FYI okay there we go making sure everyone's covered all right uh councilman dtin just had a basic question about the proposed rate scheduled does it uh is it Revenue positive is it reg negative is it neutral is it going to raise more money less money staff it's going to pretty much stay plateaued um we didn't go at this to raise fees I think you know the direction was just to compare so we were just showing you what it would be to if we were in somewhat of the same ballpark with our um cities around here it does show when you're looking at it that we are going down but we also have all those extras that you add when they turn on the lights um like um Mr Kevin said you know we do charge the15 % gate fee so all of that revenue does come into this and we will still be within that cost recovery that we are working um with at this time so you believe this really is cost neutral or yeah I think we believe that I see some heads shaking saying that's not the case somebody has to be correct isn't it cost neutral within the the 15% that we're we're supposed to be charging but it's not cost neutral within the total cost of what needs to be put in there right I believe that we are still working under the cost recovery of 2014 and our balance sheets do come out um where we're supposed to be in those pyramids so my question is is it more expensive with this new plan than it is today no a little bit on the community center sorry it will be on the community center yes because that did you know we kind of needed to go up a little bit with just the one gym it's packed how how much is it a little bit I thought I saw some doubling of fees there if I may we're only on the baseball for now it's confusing because we we'll get to that encumbered the deposit which is a range now and is always added to that what are we at 80 per 80 per hour for the um go Brody I need my glasses yeah so it encumbers deposits don't we give deposits back if they we do not that was what was confus deposit then no because so in the fee schedule a few years back we changed that deposit and we did it as a range and it's called a nonrefundable deposit fee and that is a not a deposit it's not a deposit right so it is what we want you to pay us to reserve that to save your date right but that is also covers the fees that we need for the prom a prom comes in and they're going to pay a $500 Depot cleaning fee and it will not be refunded to them now since that is confusing the people as we have seen and heard we have encumbered those cleaning fees into one fee that's where you see the increase and if I might try to help the where you see the doubling of the fee at the for the for instance the gym the the lower fee is a base rate which will be added to depending on the usage and if you if as um m l said if you have a problem with um you know 200 high school kids that may be a $700 additional fee that has been nomed as a deposit early on which was not actually a deposit it was a calculated fee based on a usage that was added to that base amount the fee that you see in in the yellow box that um is twice that number whatever or close to it whatever it comes out to be from from the 240 to the 480 that eliminates that variable component that if you're going to have a problem with 20 people it's going to be $480 if you're going to have a problem with 500 people or 200 people it's going to be $480 and we're going to ask for half of that as a true deposit when you reserve the facility and two weeks out we want the balance of the other $240 and then we're whole if you canel 60 days out or greater we'll give you your $240 deposit back to you but it it it again it makes it a static fee as opposed to a uh a stack fee that says it's $240 plus X Y and Z over here it's $480 for the use of the facility if that makes any sense question on the resolution that was never voted on but was signed but we didn't Implement do I have that story right there so we're you the fee schedule we're using right now was one that was adopted before that that's correct there 2306 is the fee schedule where you now 2321 was the one that was proposed in October of 23 that got tabled and was never taken off the table yeah okay so the the one that we're comparing the new one the recommended one to is the 20 the one that was approved and that we've been using is that correct 2306 yes sir okay well that clears it right up all right uh councilman gu thank you sir I have a quick question and this is more for the benefit of the public than anything but when we don't make uh budget when we don't receive enough money to pay for the the maintenance for the employees for the staff for everything else where does the money come from to to make up that difference from the general fund from the Ador where do we from the adalum so what we're saying is if we don't raise the fees and we are not at least plateaued even then we're subsidizing this with taxpayer money that aren't even utilizing the facilities right that that's correct and I'd say Nationwide the kind of the rule of thumb that you'll see um even around uh the State of Florida is that for recreation facilities they try to collect 25% of their expenditures in user fees and the other 75% is covered by grants and uh property taxes so that's the that's what trying to achieve um but the budget going forward it looks like we'll be covering at about 11% so if we accept the budget now and we find out that it's greater we can always reduce it at at a future time and it's better to go back and reduce fees then it will be to increase again would you agree to that yes and the City of Destin we have a lot of projects that we're looking to fund so anytime a fee is covering more of the cost of running the facility or the program uh that frees up a little money to do some of these other projects so it only makes sense to me to adopt the fees now if we have an issue back the fees off later but not let taxpayers pay for facilities that they don't utilize okay thank you councilman Bagby so a couple points the uh all the other charges I'm not really prepared to discuss tonight because I thought we were just dealing with basically the big three so I didn't do the complete analysis of the 15% there or the $25 there or whatever and and I probably should have but I thought we were just addressing the three proposed changes so I I will not vote to support those even though I might at a future meeting when I've had a chance to run the numbers so I just want to make sure I understand what you're telling me here crystal is that in 2023 on Morgan Sports Center we basically lost $516,500 FY 2025 that we will lose 82398 and that next year we will lose 853 430 so and it just keeps going worse it just goes from bad to worse so we agree yeah we kind of need to address that yes we should subsidize our our Parks and Recreation facilities and things like that but probably not to that degree which was your point point of 11% versus 25% so when Miss Lisa said it was re in answer to Mr Dustin's question is revenue net neutral actually that's not true because net neutral would mean that we would only lose $516,000 every year for the next8 years we actually are going continuing to go down we just may not go down as fast or being deficit spending going down probably has a a different kind but deficit spending so we're just trying to address that and so did we run the numbers for Morgan sports center with the proposed numbers to see what the deficits would be through FY 2029 um th this item was completely made by the parks and W group and no I I haven't done that say no say no it's okay to say no yeah but but between you and me um you can see is we're decreasing prices for the Morgans uh we're decreasing by $100 uh per rental um on the community center side we're increasing a little bit because now we're increas you know it it's hard to tell it's just too complex no I and I got that that I just just know would suffice so the the thing I would ask yall to do is take the proposed rates of charge and extrapolate that out through 2029 and so you can come back to us and say okay instead of losing $948,000 Morgan Sports Center in 2029 you're only going to lose $658,000 on Mor Morgan Sports Center in 2020 just so I see again it's not the deficit that scares me it's the the size of the deficit because I I think we all agree I think we all agree that we should support our kids and our Parks and Recreations and things like that so I'm going to make a motion that we table this to the next meeting for further analysis and I would ask you as part of that to get with Mr Schmidt and get his um laundry list or his wish list or his whatever so that you can come back and say and he wants to propose removing this fee and adding that fee and getting because I agree we should simplify it God is is super complicated but for me to sit up here in real time and try to do all those I just can't that's not how I operate I have to sit and think about things sometimes so I'm GNA make a motion table to the next meeting right I have a motion in a second and that calls for no further discussion I'll call the vote oh not my fault oh oh this the seventh one put it in the book I wasn't even thinking like this give me a minute I really do hate punting but all right I'm slowly PR turn turning into a politician I guess okay question I guess we're still working on it was next up that next up uh if you want to have some final words but it's over oh no no we're back into it yes all right not to table it yes I voted not to table it yes all right so you're back up right yes meant to do that so you know let me just for whoever believes me or not believes me uh research I've done over many months and years the reason that Morgan Sports Complex was built if you go back and look at the original plan was actually worded to be a little league park for the city of D if you go back and look at the language right that's just based off of the forefathers whoever were back here many many years ago that wrote all that stuff so making money on Tournaments has nothing to do with what Morgan Sports Center is there I think over the past however many years we've been making money on tournaments because Sports tourism is a is a thing I think we all agree with that um so charging more and more money to try to subsid try to make the revenue go up in that in that in that uh Department you're not going to be able to do that unless this Council decides to put more money into our facilities in this recreational in this town which over many years we have not done okay so you're not going to increase the revenue to offset the loss until we fix problems and and we're choosing not to do that over the years and that's okay that's that's a choice we've all made it's fine um the problem that I see not only with the Morgans but the community center also that you guys may may not be realizing is if you want to go rent the community center Mr dtin to have your grandchild's birthday party it's going to cost you nearly $200 to do that and you can only do it primarily on a Saturday if there's nothing going on there like a gumbo competition or something else Sunday you used to be able to do it back in the day because Sunday the community center used to be open we could go play open wck ball and just have fun as kids it's not open anymore so you might not even be able to rent it but if you do rent it you got toay pay even more money because it's not part of the hours right so this whole discussion is not just around baseball tournaments please don't expect that that's not somebody told me the other day Kevin you're just a baseball guy no I have three children and friends that are all ballet and everything this fee structure is broken we tried two years ago three years ago to try to fix this this one hasn't been touched since 2014 right we've gone through three city managers now to try to fix this it's not getting fixed I don't know why I don't know why I don't have that answer city managers in the past have taken it off meetings I don't know why I don't know why all I do know for me as a resident and my neighbors to go rent a field a park for a commercial organization to rent it it's outrageously impossible to understand and to pay it's just it's just common sense I get it Destin is more expensive than Fort Walt I don't disagree with you but our community center is not more expensive than Fort Walton's brand new one our parks are not more expensive and what you're using are not more expensive than Fort Walton these companies that we are making money off of today while we're losing money Mr Bagby yes but we're still making money you they're paying us they're paying us revenues coming in yes they are now starting they're going to spread out they will spread out Walton County is taking on baseball and softball events and sooning soccer events they're at 3,000 say that again they're at 3,000 and they get a 50% discount through a commun through the Cy's TDC Co so it's about half the price but they're going over there they're going to stop coming here at some point so that money will then just be completely gone and and that's okay because then we can have more usage for the kids in our local programs fine with that too I guess my last uh throwout would be I feel like the city of for Walton's fee schedule is very simple literally everything that we're talking about right now is on one page on theirs very simple and so I'll make a motion to have staff bring back a proposed fee schedule based on this with a 10% increase from what fort Walton's is and and bring the financial analysis that Mr Bagby and how that affects our budget currently all right I have a motion go here a second di for a lack of a second C braen like we're at 11% because we're basically running a Motel 6 instead of a Hilton or we should be at 25 30% because like you're saying we just had putting the money in the par we got a community center to leave and rund down fields are not up to far it sounds like that's what we need to fix first before we can start raising fees where does that money come from all good so question the the big jump from the 23 actuals to FY 24 where where how did we get from 636 to 909 oh the uh the expenses on Morgans from the forecast page I was just kind of curious how we how we jumped from 636,000 to 999,000 in expenses um I'd say the the primary reason was the um parks and wreck is about half of the city staff and that's about when we implemented I believe that was our first full year uh at the new w where we used to average $ 1112 an hour for most of our staff um that's where they all increased to uh the $1 15 to $16 an hour range okay yes and also a lot of the fees that were not put into our general Budget prior to 2023 which you know that's the way different you know Finance um those were put in to our budget and it just I mean right it needed to be there but it was not there you know it and I mean what all the different things you can see from what our budget was at you know before it doubled those were not in the general budget so what she's getting at is there were a lot of expenses related to having a community center having a mortgage Sports recreational center that were not being allocated out to them that we wouldn't have to pay if we didn't have them uh property insurance was the biggest one so yeah starting in 2020 I started allocating out those the expens the true expenses so that I'd know what it cost to actually keep it and and what would disappear if we lost that facility all right that makes sense thank you all right someone take us home Council M quick I have a quick question based off what you just said what year did you implement uh parks and wreck taking care of the Henderson park pass fee was was that 2024 that that was a long time ago long time ago okay I just wasn't sure if that was Recon thank you councilman Bagby okay cuz I assume that that additional 200,000 or almost 300,000 was maybe had to do with the lights installation where where was that expense captured was it captured in 23 or was it captured in 24 we H uh we're still in progress It's just an encumbrance and not an actual expense yet the lights are not up yet okay but I got that but you're handing me a forecast so let me ask my question a little more specifically where did you forecast that expense which year is my question in 2026 okay well that's only a $33,000 increase in 2026 for Morgan expenses I have to go back those uh that's the same forecast that was provided to council at the uh two budget workshops last summer as well as at uh public hearing number one so I'll have to go back um about a year to double check on exactly where the lights were yeah and I I agree with uh Kevin and I think Tori that you know we got to put some money in them but I think we have been putting money in the Park yeah in addition these numbers don't include the renewal and replacement component because this is just the uh the direct expenses the operating expenses this is not this is not in these numbers do not include the capital expenditures uh for either upgrades or uh replacing out swapping out old okay so when we do the playground and when we replace the sod and when we replace the lights and we repl so none of that is actually this is just operating expenses that's correct and op okay so the the loss is even not loss the deficit spending is even significantly greater than what what is captured here that's correct okay um no and I I appreciate the comparisons it's hard for us to do comps in this area probably Fort Walton Beach and nville are probably the closest because Walton County subsidizes theirs with their TDC heck Panama City Beach doesn't even have an ADV valorum tax you know they do most of their theirs is paid for mostly through their TDC also for some of their Sports Marketing and things like that so uh but hopefully we will figure out something so to try to take Kevin's thing I I did some napkin math so you know take it for a grain of salt um if we're at the 1350 and then we're the 15% gate fee at our traditional, 1500 would have been $225 at the new rate of 1350 the gate feed comes down to $22.50 we're going to reduce it $150 and then we have the so it basically adds up to a minus of $522 which then brings us to now our local nonprofit rate of two of $827 is if if I don't know if you did your math but that's kind of where I'm coming out if we're just taking the line items out and we're just calling it the new residential nonprofit number I'm getting 82750 cuz the $30 plus the 9 hours is 270 that goes away but then we're adding an admin feed of 100 so now we're minusing 170 plus the 150 from the original and then the two 25 so you lost I know that's I'm just saying that I'm trying to get us to some kind of motion if you would like a put a motion on the table I do have I have a possible motion what were the fees for Morgan's Sports Center that were not approved in 2321 not approved well 2321 was never approved so what between 2306 which was approved and which was signed and 2321 which was not approved but was signed which is whole different issue what what was the difference in the fees for Morgan Sports Center that was when y'all wanted us to um well we were told to increase our fees right and so that's what we did and that's when it was tabled and we let's see Morgan Sports [Music] Center we went to AR range that's 2321 okay I'm I'm going to my motion will be for you to bring 2321 back before us next meeting since we already discussed it I thought we had already approved it but obviously we didn't approve it we just tabled it and then yeah there was no discussion on 2321 at all at all okay I'll withdraw that motion that was never um never you saw it one time and we never had a discussion listen when Ray puts a signature in front of me I just signed the dang thing y'all don't pay me enough did you make sure we discuss it sign you know no my my frustration is this needs to be fixed we ought to fix it uh you know I thought we were just going to address some of the issues I get Sand's point we need to look at all 10 of those sheets and every little admin fee and booking fee and all that I got that okay but if we're not going to do anything tonight then let's just move on and figure out you know make Kevin the legislative sponsor to bring something back to where he has all his little charges which was my initial motion but that lost so okay that's cool Mr Bagby yeah I did exactly what you just asked two years ago multiple times so I appreciate the opportunity but I'm not going to do it again okay until somebody up here or in the staff wants to explain why it continues to not happen so I appreciate it but do do you agree that it's fair to charge people a nonrefundable deposit cleaning fee between $25 and $500 on this chart do you think that's fair chart the current chart that the city of Destin is using do you think that's fair to charge a non-refundable deposit cleaning fee between $25 and $500 how much are they going to charge you I think that it's fair to charge a non-refundable deposit fee because they've allotted for a time schedu around that time much that's up to them to decide they're they get to decide that they're the professional you think that's fair I think it is and and if it rains and you don't go somewhere it's fair not to get your your refund we don't control the weather so I'm just trying to understand how how can we fix this so you brought these are the things we tried fixing and they continue to get taken off the table no let me just ask you a quick question so you brought this to us before so you were the legislative sponsor 23 21 tell you know we go back and forth of legislative sponsor yes me Lisa and staff members met multiple hours and multiple days to compare these things so was the result of y'all's conversations with councilman Schmidt 2321 I'll make a motion that we approve 2321 you work on it with the staff oh look like Jim's been drinking no but we're not far from it yeah all right do have a motion on the floor I hear a second no that's the one that's not before us that we we didn't discuss or did discuss on who you believe that I think Kevin probably worked on and brought it to the council is that the one you that you did bring to council Kevin no and I'm gonna not vote to approve that motion and I hope that other people don't either just asking it's okay than coun someone someone get a motion here let's just move to the next item thank you thank you mayor um 3 21 had substantial increases in it and that's why it was tabled I made the motion to table it and when nobody brought it back up at the next meeting I didn't say a word so so that one was not acceptable in my opinion I think in Kevin's either in order to get us somewhere tonight if Kevin will make his motion about bringing back the four Walton fees so we have another option then we'll have 2321 the one we're using the one we didn't approve and that one at at the next meeting I'm willing to look at because I think that uh he's right at some point while we like to say well it's being subsidized by General Revenue it is but Recreation has always been subsidized and we owe it to the people because if we don't do things like subsidized Recreation and street lights and the things that we do then what is General Revenue money for so if Kevin will make his motion again to bring that along with Mr bagby's request I'll second it and I'll vote for it all right so we can at least have something else to look at at the next meeting that'll give us two weeks to try to digest what digest what in the world we're doing all right Kevin you're up I guess the motion is to bring back uh recommended fee schedule everything based off of city of for Walton Beach is with a you want me to throw a percentage increase in there with a recommended percentage increase would put okay so the motion is to bring us back a recommended fee schedule based upon City for Walton beaches sure a question yeah I want to I want you to include the funding so not just and not just the operating Crystal so operating projected based on whatever the new schedule is increase is or flat Fort Walton Beach fee is is or whatever so projected revenue and projected uh expenses for both operating and capital okay so if we're you know if we're only losing 200,000 in operating I'm great with that but if we're spending $4 million in light side you know Capital uh investment in these two facilities then I might have a different take all right uh got a motion by councilman Schmid seconded by councilman deson was that was that just a group motion is that what that we just had I had some specific question I I would say it was Kevin's motion and then I'm assuming council is making it clear other deliverables they're looking to have details yeah so motion is the motion and we're we're just going to let Steph get super clear on some comparisons with like to see as well I'd really like to have the motion that somehow Ry has come up with so I know voting on the motion is to have staff bring back uh recreational parks fee schedule based upon city of Forton Beach and to include a very detailed financial analysis and budget that includes both our operating expenses and revenues as well as our Capital Improvements and our renewal and Replacements anything related to Recreation Department that we can analyze when we are looking at this proposed fee schedule does that sound about right Mr BBY well done that sound good Mr braen I just want to know what I was voting on did you get all that I just kind of threw out there that was a good one that was a good summary all right got a motion got my second everyone's good let's move on oh God they're still here I was I was hoping this would get them out of here by now all right I just have it so moved so 51 so just before we move on just so make sure we're clear we're going to take the Fort Walton Beach fee schedule makes recommendations based off of that for council's consideration we're going to take that and take our usage and what we can determine that our income would be based off of that schedule and our current uh usage to generate a revenue component but then also look at the operating expenses and the capital expenses to support all those facilities is that right yeah yeah I mean that that's okay we we Kevin's right we need to invest some revenue or some funds in the Improvement of these facilities or we won't be able to lease them but you know how how much because it's a balance I Al I mean yes because the original motion few weeks ago was let's make this feed schedule a little bit more simpler right and instead of taking the five pages we were trying to take a couple of chunks but if we can clear out the whole thing and clean it up using a comp good good one I think it's a great starting point good deal all right that's what we'll work on thank you you made everyone happy all right next item is 4D which is the uh building permit fee update um if you recall earlier that staff presented a um uh proposal for uh amending the uh fee comp the building component of our permit fees um at that time it was about 48% you asked us to go back and sharpen pencil and Miss Noel and her staff and the U Consultants from 3tp did some work so what's before you tonight is a recommended fee increase that averages about 34% of the uh building fee component um but if you if you look at the uh documentation that's in your package if you're the then there's an example there building a $400,000 house the total overall fee increase is about 18% so these are only a portion of the fees that make up a building permit cost uh so that's before you we um you know be glad to answer any questions and is Allan with us Allan's online yeah from 3tp is there so uh um Mr Noel or Allan or anyone would try to answer any questions you may have right first uh councilman bradden thank you mayor um I moed that uh city council approved the proposed overall 34% increase in the building division permit fees as presented and direct staff to bring back the update schedule of fees resolution for adoption at a future meeting second all right got a motion to Second um any further discussions all right councilman dtin thank you mayor so we're it's a 34% increase from last year to the new fee correct as an average as an average uh of the building fee component right and so that is going to put us in the black for five years is that what the projection is uh it it slows down the the bleed uh temporarily we think that we may may need another adjustment in 2029 but we should be in good shape until then from from our projections now building can go through the roof or it can go through the basement and all that may be SE to change and our projection based on what we know today we should be good till 2029 our projection actually if I read it correctly is that it's going to go down is that correct right I mean it's slowly still bleeding it's slowly going to ble you know decline in the next five years even at this 34% average but it it's just slowing down the bleed and so yes I mean if we see this this trend continue like it's proposed we'll just have to come back to you at a later date and so if it goes down even worse we would have to raise it even more wouldn't we we'd have to come back and ask for an additional raise yes yeah 34% is a pretty big increase from one year to the next although we are projecting it will fix the problem for five years um I know at least with thator taxes we we don't project out five years we do it year by year I think uh you know 30 34% is just too much for my taste I'll make a substitute motion we increase it by 20% and come back in two years and look at it again right I have a substitute motion all right you're the on the island councilman Bagby yeah and uh nothing a nothing precludes us from coming back in two years and relooking this and lowering it or raising it or whatever uh so that that's why I didn't second your motion because I think and and part of my issue with this is that I discussed with staff is this is only the building department component this is not the planning and Engineering I'm sorry BBY are you seconding this motion no then why are we discussing it because I'm discussing your motion which is the one on the floor no he just he made a motion failed he already ruled it failed for lack of a second so we're now discussing the first one apologize I didn't hear the the failure okay well that's all right sorry turn here okay all right anyway back to the discussion on the initial yeah you'll take the you need push your button uh this this does not include the engineering or the planning cost to a developer or a builder or whatever and so I would ask that we and I don't like this peace mealing as I discussed with y'all I'll support the motion but I want us to come back at some point here soon with and here's the planning department and here is the uh engineering department you know those costs or those proposed increases because I just feel like we're nickeling Diamond people that want to build stuff and I don't think we should do that so kind of a question because I was looking at our um parks and recre stuff when we went from 23 to 24 we acquired all the real expenses is that taking into consideration with our building department all the actual expenses of leasing out the facility in addition to just the traditional cost that we're seeing on paper is is are we following the same kind of accounting that we switched to in 24 as far as from the building side are we charging them rent are we do you mean like yeah I guess so are we realizing all the true expenses we're we're getting much closer um the building official and building inspectors uh for many years they sat over here in the same facility with the Community Development people and the the code people used to be here um because up until 2018 2019 there was no state law that said a building fund or enforcement of Florida building code um needs to fund itself or it can't be a a money maker for a local governmental entity so prior to 2018 2019 there were no Florida Statutes uh when I came along in 2020 uh in 2019 the state said now you need to track it in its separate own fund so that's when we pulled it out um but like I said it had you know um the receptionist at the time would just you know charge everything to me Community Development wouldn't you know there wouldn't be a thought of well this is actually something related to having building inspectors right so we've been slowly improving and the projections that you see before me are based upon you know each year we get a little a little bit better about allocating uh cost of utilities and space and so forth so so yes to your to your question all right thank you all right I have a cleared board so not seeing anything else so we will call the vote for the original motion of accepting the proposed recommendation all right eyes have it 51 oh thank you Mr Mayor and Council next item is regarding the visioning session for this year um we're pro proposing a couple of dates and these don't have to be the dates that we land on if there's a date that works better for councel uh but we do think that you know at least by the first part of March that we um schedule a time to do our visioning session the dates before you are February 20th and 21st we're looking at a half day to accomplish what we need to get done uh what I Envision is to do a presentation to council as to what uh our vision for staff is to implement the vision that comes from Council this visioning session is for your vision of what you want to see happen in the city and how you see the city moving forward and hopefully what we will present to you will give you a um an idea of how we see us participating in that as your uh Frontline staff to get those things done we' also like probably ask our directors to do a brief uh presentation of the items that was budgeted in the current Year's budget and how we can anticipate getting those things accomplished as a reflection of your vision from your session last year I'm a firm believer that the things that you prioritize you'll put your resources as Allah budget behind and that gives us the opportunity to accomplish those things uh so we want to demonstrate to you uh what what was budgeted last year how we see those being accomplished uh in the in the remainder of this year um so and then from there certainly ask for um you know direction from Council as what you want to see included in the visioning of the coming year so that as we begin to prepare a budget we will incorporate those things into that another component of that is the employee survey um is has been completed and uh I think Dr Young is working to help us get that in a in a form that is digestable so that we can take some value from it and she may speak more of that later but anyway uh just just looking for if you're ready to set a date for that then we can begin that process CC Schmid yeah I mean I propose Friday the 21st 8:30 in the morning I'm good the yeah just like morning either way I agree the 21st Friday all right Jim no I I won't I'm flying to Naples that Friday so okay I I can't but that's F you know you all have fun can you do Thursday I can do Thursday all day yeah okay coses can't wait I can't wait to retire C Trel anything yeah I have a funny funny feeling that I won't believe me um either day is fine with me but Thursday's better if if he can be there all right coun bradden any preference I do have a preference of mornings mornings all right you guys can you do Thursday I can't do Thursday but if we push it back a week how long you in Naples uh just that for a long week can we push it back a week Naples FR or Naples Florida meet backward or towards March yeah I can do 27th or 28 that's fine with us I mean you this can 28 think we have any reason I'll be out but I don't get a vote so that's fine by me our or confusion I can't yeah I can't do that I mean should we not like look at March and April I mean part of me feels like we're setting ourselves up for failure by already scheduling a vision session literally two weeks from now it's supposed to be a vision for the city tested for the next year but should we look at a different month or have staff bring us back more options in March and April no I I would say y'all go ahead and stay on the 21st the the the way it's set up with the visioning session is it ties into the budgeting process and so they need to get started based on your vision input whatever and that's fine I you know I might be able to call in Friday morning for a little bit or something and then you know get on the plane yeah okay all right so we're doing 21st morning all right thank you for your sacrifice is that is that 8 to noon 8 to noon yeah it's on here 8:30 to 11:30 Friday the 21st all is welcome all right all right next item is 4 F and we may have covered this already so somebody remind me this was the pass through on the processing fees of whether we wanted to include that but I think we probably know what our direction is I think we need Council to determine okay so the back to our already discussion of whether uh we want to move forward uh with adding the 3% to as a convenience fee to those that use a card whether they swipe it or do it online or whether we continue to pay that fee out of General Revenue funds Council M bagy I move that we direct staff to proceed with the pursuing the pass through Payment Processing fees for the city of D which means that 3% is added in and that's what's collected and then we pay out right I just want to make sure we're all on the same sheet of music there all right I have a motion on the floor do I hear a second got a second by councilwoman treml any further discussions option one right seeing none call the vote okay he unanimous all right CDC uh items G through K are our standard monthly reports um for your um reference informational only um from announcements from my perspective uh cross town connector uh we are about two weeks away from having a development order to get that process moving the plans are complete and ready to be signed and sealed uh when we're ready ready to put it on the street uh we're currently working on the procurement documents um there's one little wrinkle that we're working trying to work around and there's two or three ways that may happen but if you recall we've got a $2 million um Grant from the do from our trip funds however we can't move forward with a procurement that would uh utilize those funds until we have an agreement with do which we can't do until after the new uh fiscal year for the state which is July 1 so that has the potential of slowing things down to get to that point so there are a couple of things that we're working on to uh circumvent that requirement one is uh our lobbyist is working with do to perhaps advance that funding that we may get it as early as April which would allow us to uh go do a procurement for the whole project or if that's not um if we can't get that to happen in our favor we would ask the do to allow us to segregate the uh storm water component the undergrounding storm water facility and um take bids on that separately and move that contract forward and in the meantime get to a place where we can do the procurement for the construction of the roadway so hopefully one of the uh formers uh and the latter would be that if we have to wait till July we would make sure we're understanding what that would mean for the whole process we don't think we're going to get there but we'll know better over the next couple of weeks probably one question on that issue the the money we're requesting in our legislative is that key to going forward with the project no sir no that would be a supplemental amount that would used to repay the fund the the loan that we the allocation out of the loan of the $20 million loan that $25 million loan that's going into the cross town connector to repay those funds well I I'm glad to hear that judging by the own of the governor uh I don't know that any of us going to get any exactly yeah and um and the only other announcement is there's been a couple things that you know has been brought to our attention and some things that we've certainly um found Upon Our Own that there's some clean up that we may need to do around our facilities interior exterior so hopefully you'll see some Tiding up a little paint here and there a little clean up uh to make our facilities look a little nicer again Bo some interior spaces and some exterior spaces uh but we want to do a you know a better job perhaps of cleaning things up and making sure we're up to date and U where we can clean up a little bit that hopefully you'll see some progress being made there and uh that's all I have said Mr B yes yeah as as we discussed in our meeting uh and I'm going to go ahead and make a motion that we authorize you he has three course of actions if you weren't paying close attention on the cross town connector uh course of action number one is nonstarter but course of action two you know if we the trip Grant it's either going to come or it's not going to come maybe we can get it in April and that would be a great thing based on what I think's going to happen in April and May but I would make a motion to authorize staff to go ahead and pursue course of action number three which is go ahead and continue with the planning for the undergrounding of the storm water and everything because executing three does not preclude us from going back to two whereas if we just stay on Two And that precludes us from going to three and what happens there is then we run up against the IRS and and potential problems with uh not using the money and the interest that were yeah so I I'm going to make a motion that we direct staff to go ahead and pursue course of action three but continue to work course of action two on the cross town connector all right I have a motion I got a second by councilman dtin any further discussions seeing none I'll call the vote all right I have it so moved and just something that I picked up and it came from our Emerald Coast Regional Council uh executive director and I just kind of wanted to confirm it I guess if we if our appropriation for the cross town gets all the way to the governor's desk and it gets vetoed does that then create an issue where any other state funding for that fysical year also is now off the table all right I might have just misunderstood the manua there okay I was just confirming that we're not going to I think the governor has line item veto when he can yeah line item veto but okay I might have Mis misunderstood but if he wants to veto cross town connector and leave for prong Lake if it were there he could do that or leave the no no I'm sorry where I'm coming from is if he cross if he vetos the cross town connector as a project does that does that inhibit the department from funding the cross town and any other means inside their Department what what I think you're asking and I got to ask to make sure I'm yeah if we get $2 million an additional $2 million in this session yes that would be effective one July 2025 if he line items veto does that kill our trip Grant and the answer is no okay all right that was just double checking on on by minutia stuff yeah I'm getting to 3.0 all right all right all right with that Ray are you good all right we're gonna keep R rocking and rolling no no he needs to use a restroom oh okay that's that's a yes okay is Tam Tamara I'm so sorry no problem at all the employee satisfaction survey as was alluded to earlier has been finished up and we had over 80 employees participate and we are compiling that information um but just as a teaser in one of the categories it did show the majority of employees as either satisfied or very satisfied in their overall job not sure if we're still feeling that tonight but overall satisfied or very satisfied in our overall job so that's terrific did also notice some areas um that we could pretty clearly improve upon so that's great and we'll be working with staff on that for their input and also with you guys for your input the bid packets for the tarpon Beach Park project are being finalized this week the project slated to go out to the market next week with bids being received mid-march city offices will be closed on Monday February 17th in observance of President's Day and because of that we'll have our council meeting the following night on Tuesday February 18th before the council meeting on the 18th we'll have our state of the city address by mayor Wagner and that will start at 5:30 p.m. so we hope people come a little bit earlier that evening um and enjoy the sooka the state of the City address we're working with 3tp to move the mobility fees toward adoption we have until June 2025 to adopt the new fees since the mobility study was initiated in June of 2024 we'll be scheduling the first of two required public hearings per state statute for the mobility fee adoption and that'll be February 18th during the regularly scheduled city council meeting I was just referring to then just as a sidebar of explanation the public hearing for that state stat is called a workshop and staff we had to kind of talk through this to make it make sense but it's called a workshop but it doesn't function is what we typically in this room refer to as a workshop hence it's being noticed as a public hearing based on the direction given during the February 18th meeting we're tentatively looking at March 3rd and March 17th for the first and second readings respectively and lastly we've been working with the rotary folks on the PRT signs to show how to operate the potentially life saving equipment uh that they shared with us at a council meeting last year those signs are being printed and will be at 8 of the beach trail location soon and we're certainly appreciative to the rotary for taking the initiative on this and that's all I have awesome all right with that for the sake of our minute taker we're going to take a short recess and we will adjourn shortly e e e e e e e e e e red lights back on the live camera so we are going to call this meeting back into order and we'll we'll get a we'll get a quorum as we come up all right so up first is going to be the public hearing so miss cop please take it away have a full Council yet so I'll just give it I see a quum okay this is ordinance 2423 CC and ordinance of the city of dtin Florida requiring short-term rental registrations at all multif family units including but not limited to condominium units and apartment units within the city of dtin providing for Authority providing for findings of fact distinguishing between short-term rental registrations for single family homes and short-term rental registrations for multif family units renaming article six of chapter 13 registration of short-term rentals single family but making no other amendments to the regulations for short-term rentals for single family homes creating article 6A of chapter 13 registration of short-term rentals multif family requiring an application for such registration and authorizing registration fees for short-term rentals at multif family units requiring a local responsible party for short-term rentals at multif family units providing for conflicting Provisions providing for severability and providing for an effective date this is first reading seeing that this is a public hearing if there's anyone from the audience who wishes to speak on this specific item please do so good evening Ken Wampler 4320 Commons Drive West I'm coming to to give you some suggestions I know today we're not talking about fees is that correct M Miss cup not talking about fees just the ordinance the ordinance has no fees but of course it authorizes them so the fee resolution would be brought to council at second reading if it's approved on first reading tonight and adopted sooner than 2006 that's rant so can I tell you that that discussion reminded me of the BTR and I don't want to bring that out but the same issue happened there uh so my suggestion is you've got a couple things that I think you need to look at one is why have this have an expiration date different than the one you already have on the books which is February 28th you have to renew for each year by March 1st i' make that suggestion because it's all hand in hand uh the other thing is the multif family whether it's commercial or residential you've got individuals filling in and acknowledging parking and noise and trash and number of parking spots that a condo gets certainly is not up for anyone's discussion and so for you to make them acknowledging that seems to be redundant in my opinion um and then um obviously what I would suggest is say that they have to comply with all the complex rules for the association by which they find themselves in or obviously if it's a lodging hotel motel in or whatever and then the other thing is obviously the fee you know um obviously i' I've come to the realization I said before yall are going to do this and you're going to charge a fee and so is it a fee per property or a fee per unit in both instances multif family and lodging obviously if I have a hotel that's 150 units if it's a fee per unit then that makes sense because again I think the idea was to make it fair if we're going to make it fair if there's 150 condos in a in a complex 150 hotel rooms is it going to be the same fee per unit or is it just going to be per property and I don't know the answer to that question but it doesn't really spell that out so that's why I wanted to ask that question and then uh I give you those suggestions as a way to try to make this more palatable for those of us that have to comply with it I think the expiration date in the fee schedule is going to be critical so thank you all right thank you so much sir anyone else all right seeing none close the public comments and I will uh go to councilman bradden thank you mayor I move the city council approved on first reading ordinance 24-23 DCC all right I have a motion I second I had a red light now I have a second all right any further discussions yep comes bag me yeah I agree the date should be the same I don't understand why it's not the same uh I'm not so sure about the parking that's kind of Superfluous but I I would asked the maker of the motion in the uh second to amend their motions to change the expiration date to match the ordinance for the other short-term rentals okay I'd first like to ask staff while they put the expiration date there fa your question as written ber Ken I'm looking it up because I thought it was the same I'm looking right right now because it it should have been the same and I thought it was the same but on the parking there's obviously there's no new parking requirements in this all it does is asks um the owners to have an acknowledgement that the parking is going to be complied with and that parking will be done in City approved parking spaces whatever their do and and permits are applicable documents um say but yes the date should be the same as all short-term rentals you now uh in that in the motion all right and then are you okay as a second as amendment I will accept that as a second all right and then Jim are you done all right uh councilman Schmidt Kim do we need to specify per unit versus per property you brought up no because we would do that in the fee resolution but if you have an interest in it um discuss I'm expecting it per unit yeah and it can be it it is intended to be per unit and I don't I think the fee schedule would have like a grouping of numbers one to 20 units 20 to 50 units I mean you know groupings of units so that's my thought if someone has a different idea happy to hear it all right done all right councilman Dustin just a quick question on the the Nexus between what we're charging and what we're doing and and I did understand the difference between a a motel that has 100 units and that's already bought BTR they already have a business license and they already regulate their parking and they regulate their customers so there's not the same connection between what they're doing and what a freestanding or even a condo that that uh that has multiple units so explain to me how it is that we arrive at a fee schedule that's the same for both of those uses that is a question for Council the basis for the ordinances in the legislative findings and the warehous Clauses but the amount of the fee is up to councel so what you're saying is that really will be decided in the resolutions and we have an opportunity to address that yeah the amount of the fee is to be decided I thought you all already gave a number though well we couple back we've not voted on it but my question is you know most of these rules and regulations ordinances you did you did vote on it did we Ray didn't Council vote on an amount for the fees it was like 200 or a couple meetings back no I made a motion for 300 and it got shut down 300 I think I did 10,000 and it got shot down the amount will be up to you all I do not think the impacts are the same the regulation programs are not the same so if you want to make the fee different it's totally reasonable but staff did put together how much this would cost to implement and the fee should reflect that we get the money back for implementing the program it's not a it's not an annual fee that is profit making it is to cover our costs in enforcement and Regulation and and I guess I need to look at that a little closer because I in my mind don't know how the hotel with 100 unit and 100 freestanding short-term rentals in town somewhere which is the thousands that we're trying to capture how the amount of staff effort to regulate those when they're pretty different so this ordinance is only for multif family condos and apartments the next ordinance we're going to talk about is for the commercial uses and the hotels maybe that's the more appropriate place to ask that question and I'll ask the same question when we get there yeah but that's the that's the part I can't reconcile is how we come to the conclusions that they're the same councilman Bren okay I guess we'll wait because I I was thinking of them hotels and motels is putting more traffic and stuff on the road andit yeah okay uh councilman BBY yeah do we know how many short-term rental apartments we have I don't think we know because we've never had them register so I don't think we have that number Troy do we have that number apartments or condos I know condos cond trust me I do not know departments without having them register it would be hard for staff to have that information yeah because uh I'm going to vote for this one tonight but I probably will not vote for it on second reading and I just want to make sure I'm clear the condos I'm I'm all in on the condos everything else for a lot of reasons of couple of which Mr dtin has stated but also they are regulated differently under state statute for and I don't think they're applicable and they have btrs and there's a whole laundry list of issues that I have with uh the second ordinance but on this ordinance I I'm just focused on the ownership of a condo is just like a single family residence the ownership of an apartment and the rules I know they're big buildings with lots of parking and people go in but it's an entirely different animal statutorily uh and I think for the purposes of this ordinance so I I'll vote for it tonight but uh I'm going to try to convince y at the next meeting to separate the condos and the apartments cuz I a I don't think there are that many short-term rental apartments so we're we're creating a lot of work for code that we shouldn't and I'm not even sure we can police those to be honest with you all right and that clears the board yes sir can we not take that put that in tonight's motion you can take them out tonight if you want to I would just that would be a change that requires a change to the title and read advertising which is fine but it will go back to First reading which is totally fine if that's what council wants to do okay well I'll make a substitute motion that we withdraw the apartment related and just do short-term rental condos all right I have a only on this first the second one I can't support because it's all commercial stuff not but I got a second for the substitute by councilman dtin and do we have any further discussions on the substitute yeah can you just you're you're you're concerned with Apartments just because we may or may not we don't know how many we have concern there there's a bunch of different reasons and Kim can probably uh tell you a lot better apartments and and Condominiums are governed by a separate different and separate parts of the statute Florida State statutes they are treated differently by the Florida state statutes and and the business and and uh how they're regulated how the state regulates them and how the state reviews them and I just think we're we're going to hit a hornets nest for you know 20 short-term rental apartments that might exist in this town that we really don't need to fight it just it's I I get the short-term rental condos you know those are creating to our problem the short-term rental apartments are not creating the problem or really contributing in my opinion to the problem that we are trying to fix they're probably not because when you rent an apartment you're usually renting for a year and the apartment complex if that's what it is is probably not going to allow sub Leasing for short-term rentals whereas a condo usually the owner owns it and Rents It Out for either longterm term or short-term uses so there is a difference I can understand taking them out if that's what council wants to do so was it included just be like it was included with the in with the intent to include all multif family uses um time shares capture everything without creating a loophole but it's not necessary if the concern is the condo and I just explained why I think that is more concerning because of the ownership then you can take it out uh councilman Bren nope all right uh seeing nothing else on the board we will call for the substitute motion hey uh cim I found the minutes where we voted for a fee already you want that now I thought so what was it it was uh August 19th I can read it what was the amount uh councelor Bagby moved to set a short-term rental registration condominium fee of $300 annually and direct staff to bring back a draft ordinance seconded by councelor Schmidt then it was a substitute motion to include the hotels and others and that pass four to three okay so we'll talk about amount later but it was 300 knew there was a motion on top of that how do you pass a fee for ordinance that's not been passed bring no it was to bring back the ordinance so that we would implement the fee okay there's no there's no fee in this ordinance I'm just saying that in August you all did discuss the amount of the feeed correct so that's why you'll be getting the fee resolution on second reading if the ordinance passes we get it it says it in the staff report so the staff report says that if this ordinance if any of these two ordinance get passed on first reading that the fee resolution will come back to the council at a public meeting on second reading and you guys can vote on that totally separately I think he's providing guidance all right Lo the votes all right 60 passes The Substitute we will republish for one all right give on two this is ordinance 2501 CC an ordinance of the city of Dustin Florida requiring short-term rental registrations for rentals of commercial lodging units including but not limited to hotels motels bed and breakfast condo tails and similar facilities within the city of dtin providing for Authority providing for findings of fact providing for definitions distinguishing between short-term rental registrations for residential units and reg registrations for commercial lodging units creating article 6B of chapter 13 registration of short-term rentals commercial requiring an application for such registration and authorizing registration fees for short-term rentals at Comm commercial lodging units requiring a local responsible party for short-term rentals at commercial lodging units providing for conflicting Provisions providing for severability and providing for an effective date this is first reading this ordinance deals with all of the other uses that are typically considered commercial all right and seeing that this is a public hearing at this time if anyone from the public would like to speak on this specific issue this is your time to do so all right seeing none I'll will close the public comments and entertain a motion we got some scrollers all right I move to approve ordinance 25-01 DCC on first reading second all right we got a first and a second councilman Bagby first yeah and I'm gonna vote against this one uh tonight for the same reason uh that I didn't like the apartments the the commercial properties are treated differently they have a different um standing within the state and I just think the road that we're going down here um hotels and motels when you take no offense but if we want to take on the Florida restaurant and Lodging Association and have Carol do besides our Ken wler come just wear us out that's that's what we're asking for on these hotels and motels that this is they're designed to have one night two night three night and they're not in the middle of our residential areas where some of these condos are where obviously these houses are and some of these monster houses and so we we treat them differently in our planning documents and you know I don't expect to convince anybody differently but I I I can't support this thank you councilman bradden anything yeah I guess my first question would be was all this discussed to staff prior to all this coming this resolution coming to us tonight um and then my second question be or statement would be that I know the law of shortterm rental companies now are going to a three or four night stay instead of s you know Saturday to Saturday so my opinion that's the same if you rent a motel night motel for three nights or you can run a house for three nights it's six one half do another so I'm just curious if this was brought up to staff part of this being written and why would they have put it in there so we staff did discuss it it's in there because it was directed by Council I think staff does see a difference between commercial impacts and residential imp impacts when you have impacts in a residential neighborhood it's different than when you have impacts in a commercial neighborhood so the regulations that we put in place for the commercial uses are different than the ones for the residential they are um it's less regulatory on the commercial uses um however it's council discretion if we include these uses or not they're just in separate ordinances because like I said there's a little less regulation in in the commercial zoning okay thank you counc mcal thank you I have a possible solution I don't know we'll see what you all think if we base this instead of calling unit we do it off partial ID all condos all Town hoses they all have individual parcel IDs right a motel hotel they all have one parcel ID for the entire building so if the regulation or the the fee is based per parcel ID uh um on the commercial side it's just one flat fee that that can be nominal it won't be per unit it'll be per parcel ID is that something you guys would consider as a compromise but don't some of the a lot of the condos I mean they're condos are all individually owned a lot of them are so it's different partial IDs yeah they all have different partial IDs so if you do a roof on a condo so we're just talking about hotels and motels yeah you can do indiv is that correct where's Noel did she leave us damn it Noel but I'm almost positive I can say you're you're correct I'm looking at the uh property appraisers uh parcel data right now and you're correct yeah guess that goes to you as far as legal so for example if we have a $300 fee you want to charge a hotel $300 a year to register I mean what information is the city council going to get I think there's like 12 13 hotels in the city so you're going to get I mean I don't know if it's worth the program if you do it that way you might just not want to pass the ordinance I mean you're not getting very much back and you're going to be asking staff to do this whole new process for whatever 300 time 12 or 13 is well as we Annex in we're going to get a lot more though right well at that time you might want to consider the ordinance then but it might not make sense for now I just putting it out there so the current um the when we started this conversation last summer the the current practice of charging Str strs a registration fee is based on their total square footage so that's why um you've seen these tables of counts of condos and single family residences multif family residences and they're all classified by uh square feet I'm responding to the parcel ID number question uh cman Bagby yeah no I mean I I appreciate you you thinking outside the box the couple of issues one's the square footage so even if we went at the top rate which I think is 700 or whatever for those monster homes it'd be $700 for a hotel that might have 200 rooms I guess we could come back and do you know more graduated if you had 10,000 square ft you know it's $2,000 or something the other thing on the condos though is if you go by parcel ID those common areas also have a parcel ID and so somebody is going to be paying for for the pool area and the the hallways and the elevators or the whatever they have in the in the condos or the short terminals I I'd have to think about that but I would say uh probably not just because I'm with Kim e even if you tripled and made it $2,100 for a hotel uh what what are we actually enforcing in a hotel I I get what we're enforcing in condos because they go down and use the beach cuz most of them are on the beach you know they do take up some of the parking down along the beach or down along the harbor or whatever at Nora point but the the hotels typically uh are not typically they they do some obviously yeah but so I'm I'm I'm a all right with that the board is cleared so I'll call the vote oh this is number eight oh man motion passes now of course when we have seven members at the next meeting listen I'm not I'm not flexing anything over here question question for councel since we are taking the other ordinance back to First reading do you want us to wait on this one so they go together or just advertise this for do you not care you want large so we're going to keep them together then all right we're moving along councilman Brayden thank you mayor um let's see first thing first uh I guess first thing we'll um I'd like to point Tammy weidenhammer to the Public's works and Safety Committee second all right got a motion and second seeing no further discussion I call the vote all right I have it so moved next is appointing uh John Stevens to the harbor CRA advisory committee all right do I have a second I'll second second by councilman guile see no further discussions I'll call the vote all right I have it so moved all right great um second one is um had a question about uh ordinance 24-15 DCC that was on the liy vessels um what happened to the second reading it's got tabled or something I don't know uh last year last summer or something what happened to that no there was a lot of back and forth on that and then it was supposed to come back and we thought we'd have a community development director uh after January 3rd so we were waiting for the 6th and then that didn't happen and then we waited for the 21st and then that didn't happen so now we're just going to do it um with Steve as the acting director and he's just a little bit busy so it's in progress but we were trying to resolve a lot of larger issues not only dealing with the Yachts but also dealing with the what some people call medallions which are really registrations and so we wanted a director involved but it looks like that's not going to happen so first reading passed no problem and then there was direction from Council I'll have to get the old motions unless Ry has them but there was directions from Council to make changes to things okay if we just bring it back or whatever it was definitely not it passed on first reading and then it disappeared it there were changes directed by Council it says second reading of ordinance D or 24-15 CC relative to the Liberty vessels so what happened the first reading this first reading passed and it went we'll have I'll have to come back to you at the I don't know what I recall is that there was discussions about the medallions with it and that Council wanted to address the bigger picture of how to handle all of that and revise the ordinance to deal with everything rather than just the definition and the Y issue but if I'm remembering wrong I will come back and tell you I'm remembering wrong at the next meeting but my recollection was we were going to significantly revise it and bring it back to council okay thank you um and when we were talking earlier about our the credit card fees and the passport for parking what we're paying those I'm just curious I know staff said a few years ago that putting the I guess the the arms in a credit card machine so you can pay as you leave and I noticed Allen lir did the same thing on his big parking lot down there on the north side of 98 I'm just curious if know how much that cost or do I need to go ask him how much that cost and cuz according to staff a few years ago it was just ridiculous amount millions of dollars to put it in and I can't imagine that being I believe Mr Burgess is working on something and it's very near to be brought back to us I was told right I distributed a draft of it today um for a paid parking solution and instead of using a traditional arm type of uh solution it'd be a camera based solution that would have a tag reader so when you drove like say for the marlor street parking lot when you drove in it would capture your tag and if you didn't create a session within a certain number of minutes it would assume you're parking without paying and we would receive notification of that but if you pulled in created a session no harm no foul you just leave at the end of the uh evening and it clocks you as you leave you just pay the simple fee but if you're there past say 3:00 a.m. again we would be notified that you're there and you're illegally parking overnight so but the first draft of the second version of that uh RFP was distributed earlier today so how much would something like that going to cost us to have Camas out there and notifying us if somebody parked or they didn't or if they stayed too late uh we're going to it's it's a request for proposals so sometimes the cost of the equipment would be rolled into a transaction fee like we were talking about earlier so they could recoup their costs so we again have to hire somebody else to monitor this system that is correct so why don't we just put why don't we just put the arm up there and because I thought this would be the best thing just cut out the middleman and you drive in you pay when you leave I'm not a I'm not a parking expert but the queuing spaces for the maror street parking lot and that was going to be our pilot project or very short and you could have you know if you had a problem with the arm uh you could stack traffic up on the you know maror Street and side streets um the camera seems to be the way to go it's intelligent it it allows the um co- compliance officers to have kind of live data for each of the parking lots and if they have a u an offender or repeat offender or something like that they'll be notified of it and they can go take action and issue a citation an arm won't issue a citation it'll just block traffic if you refuse to pay Mr Brad that just seems like it's a lot more money to have somebody to to I guess we got they going to collect the funds now we got to pay somebody to monitor the camera system to let us know something so sound like we're just backing up we're paying more money for something I'm thinking about just getting some arms out there just like the airport and so one of the issues PR previously before you got back on here this was brought to us and unfortunately it was kind of not all put together One-Stop shop for some of these ideas but one of the issues with the arm was the technology on the uh credit card with no internet uh if I recall that was one of the expensive items that we would have had to run some type of internet service on that so but I mean all I have to say I mean it's a possibility sure but the camera thing I think it's not being monitored by us I mean it's all automatic you know it's it's what a lot of the restaurants and businesses on the south side of 98 are starting to use it's just an automated system it's they've had a lot of trouble with that as well some have and some some haven't you're not wrong but that's why they're we're going to bring us back hopefully uh some proposals to see what we can do because this has been discussed a few times counselor Bren it's almost like the toll by plate program that the fdot or the you know where you use your fast pass not fast pass what's it called sun pass I just came from back from Disney and all that so I got fast pass on my brain but uh like the sunp pass system but you drive through it reads your tag and that you would create a profile inside whatever vendor we select software and it would automatically charge uh your credit card for uh that parking session and any subsequent time you visited our parking lot or any other parking lot managed by that same group it would read your tag and go ahead and charge you so down at Keith Howard's property I know somebody got a ticket for I don't know $1,200 $1,400 because they went in there and the camera got their tag and they left there by jumping the curb or going through some else's property or something and I guess they were there for two months I guess they thought and they got a ticket for it or I don't know how we going to handle that kind of stuff yeah I don't I would hope no one would try to jump the curb to get out of the parking lot but uh it would pay as you come in so um it would be set up that way not when you leave it's not time based so it's you know it's not per hour or anything like that it's just $15 a day and you're not supposed to be there overnight anyway so uh so I guess it would assume you would leave at the end of the day gotcha thank you mayor that's all I let me ask a question about a year year and a half ago we directed was it you mayor to to look into the app we were using and see if you couldn't find a more appropriate one yeah and we had the big bid process we had like seven nine people yeah we had we had several um submissions to that RFP and every one of them this this made it very difficult to kind of kind of see you know how the cream Rose to the top everyone offered different services at different rates and different ways to pay for equipment like councelor Braden uh mentioned earlier it was just very very difficult so we did we did approach council with uh Park Mobile as a vendor well Park Mobile does the payment processing and the data management but they don't do enforcement well okay so you had to find somebody to do the enforcement well they didn't install the equipment it just became very very convoluted very quickly so what we're looking for this time is a One-Stop shop you do Soup To Nuts comprehensive uh paid parking Solution that's what we were calling it did you check with the City of Pensacola and see who they're using they use Park Mobile that was um uh one of the kind of the selling points is I called over to Pensacola and they are just pleased you know tickled pink with their parking program but they don't Council was requesting some things I think that Pensacola doesn't really offer at this time maybe they do now but at that time but uh the payment processing like we talked about earlier the enforcement the equipment the wireless these were all separate contracts we were going to have to enter into to kind of get one to make it work to council satisfaction hopefully this time this round when we put this advertisement out we will get one the checks off boxes and that may all work well we knew need to get back to discussing what we're charging I know the City of Pensacola charges so much for the first three or four hours and then you go to an all day fee because nobody's using our parking lot it's it's empty and and that's not the object not only is the object to make a little money but it's the object is to have people using those parking lots and if if it's $15 for all day or $15 for 15 minutes that doesn't work so we're going to have to come and of course we'll discuss it make sure this company can do what they're doing over in Pensacola which is you know they start out with an hourly fee and then they go to the the full days because that's the way people use it yeah and I think the Howard group also uses the park mobile as well and so that that's that's one way a lot of airports operate you pay by the hour until thresholds met and you just pay for the entire day I just want to get people to use the par yeah and I think between brulas and the Howard group and all them if we're also on the same app I mean I I do from bigger city to bigger city the most frustrating thing is I have like seven Park apps now because they're all jockeying to try to become the Verizon and T-Mobile and if if we could not even set a president but if we can just kind of as a District have a dare I say a favorite or one that seems to be dominant I think it just creates a little bit more user satisfaction of I don't have to download another app and go through that whole process again I agree with there too many apps yeah but Mr Rodney's arm may well cut out the middleman I that was interesting and and as far as the internet several restaurants in town are now using starlink yeah so they they don't have to worry about running I was going to say Live Oak fiber seems to also be liking us and uh back to us yeah wait till this comes back I'm excited yeah because I know Live Oak fiber would be more than willing if it's already laid everywhere now they were already asking about trying to lay and do a partnership with our Parks so yeah yeah oh no all right um the only other thing with that and just to bring it to consol's radar while we're talking the parking thing I would love for this to also be implemented at Joe's Bayou and that way we don't need a parking attendant taking cash and taking all these other things and perhaps that service of that employee turns into a little bit more of helping catching and allowing the the boat ramp to move a little bit faster after the D things done so while we're also linking parking i' would also love for this to translate over to uh Joe's valou boat ramp as well as just a little caveat so with that when we charge to launch a boat does that include when we charge to launch a boat Does it include parking or is parking separate I think it's separate but I you can if we were to pick a program that allows this each parking lot could function in its own payment process and everything so that one would just be your day pass straight up because if you're going in you're launching and if you're a registered um local your plate or whatever we're going to use would catch that and it's a zero pay hey text message thanks for being local your your bill is zero dollars today cool can we also Implement maybe like a on every slip like a catapult so if you sit there too long it catapults you out of there fair enough that would be nice that's probably something that will come up all right C TRL uh thank you mayor um I have uh three applications uh for the Town Center CRA uh as the council charged me with uh doing that and um I guess any one that wants to appoint any of those can do that during their time tonight um or we can appoint all three of them I it doesn't make any difference to me um do do you have your appointment already done my appointment is done yes yes all right all right so I'm just going to encourage everyone to look at that and while we're looking councilman dtin if you'd like to continue and just kind of notify me when you guys would like to appoint anyone if you see fit okay y uh next I have um the situation has come to my neighborhood uh lately and my neighbors are really upset about it um we have had four buildings built on Residential Properties for RVs storage of RVs two of those um are aesthetically similar to the house okay whatever that is on the property two of of the other ones uh one of which is in the process of being built um are corrugated metal sheds that are two stories tall and double wide RVs I mean double two bay doors and they don't do anything for the house in fact one of them is um the owner doesn't even live there he lives down the street on the water and can't get his RV in so he went and bought a smaller property um across the street and down two blocks from him um and built this huge shed well I don't have a problem with the shed I don't have a problem with RV garages what the problem is is the metal corrugated buildings are now cheapening all the property values around them so I have asked I've talked to I talked to Steve um Conor and he said it would be a simple little fix just to put a little um line item so so to speak in the Land Development code talking about residential design standards for accessory buildings just simply saying that they must be aesthetically pleasing or go with the house so to speak um if your house is Brick then you do brick or you do some kind of siding and brick or some you know some combination of that instead of these corrug ated metal buildings that don't even belong in a residential neighborhood but anyway I have asked um and and I guess I'm asking Council to um support this having uh Mr oconor come back with that item to our next council meeting for voting up or down one or the other um take that as a motion that's a motion second by councilman Bagby any further discussions one one comment mayor yep council member doesn't need to have the council vote to bring back legislation all you got to do is ask the staff member to bring it back write it and bring it and bring it back and put it on the agenda well I'll be glad to do that fair enough so okay was that a permitted item that you referring to is it a permitted structure it is a permitted structure but we don't have any design standards that says you can't build a twostory corrugated metal building gotcha next to your house because you got one very close to your house Bren thank you for the explanation yeah with that along that same line I know we had all that huge problem with the same building type building on joose by you yes many years ago yeah y can we not kind of we lost that fight oh we did okay never mind got some D yeah we lost the fight and my only other comment is if if this one of them is an accessory Building without a building there how do you have an accessory well the house was built in the early 50s and uh I mean it is a little tiny house about this big okay maybe 1500 square fet it isn't even being used except for storage right now so but they can build a building I mean the act the actual RV Barn is bigger than the house um well we don't have any design standards so we can't make that happen yeah we talked about it as far as adus but I don't think there's anything in the code at the moment that's 50% or a th000 feet last in yeah in residential units there isn't any okay so this would be adding something to Residential Properties or guidelines um the last thing I have is that uh I'm planning to begin the training for the volunteer committees in March so if there is um I will be going to each committee because that seems to be easier than having them all collect in one day um and anyway so I would appreciate it if you need a member or don't have a member if you could get them in there by March that will save me having to do one-on ones after that so thank you very much and thanks staff for their support in that effort all right great job uh Council M Dustin thank you mayor um we're going to again city manager and I have been working with bashville Donovan on the stallman intersection and of course we discussed tonight about putting the underpass and and we've got several other initiatives going and and uh the only problem is we're not going to get a thing done before the cross town connector hooks into that intersection with the exception of possibly using this intelligent intersection software or person uh they're using it in Gulf Breeze and Pensacola it in improves the efficiency of the intersection a certain percentage and what we're asking tonight is is to have basille Donovan go in contact those people that are using that technology and bring a report back to us so that we can at least do something before we open that up to the traffic from the cross town connection so I will make a motion if if we a motion yeah well well you do on this because this is telling a contractor to do something I'll make a motion that we direct B bashville and Donovan to contact the people that are using those intersections and bring a report back to us as soon as possible I'll second that all right I got a second by councilwoman traml uh and that is through Emerald Coast Regional Council is who's spearheading that and from the TPO side as Vice chair I've kind of waved a hey I'm sure Destin's interested and and I pointed to that one as a Crux of hey when you're done with your test beted over there we'd love to to be test bed number two so I think they're already excited that we're potentially interested I was like I'm not speaking for councel but I think that's going to be very exciting and I I think it's not only for capacity but also for pedestrian safety there's some very interesting um things that you can do and it's not even big brother as it is just recognizing objects and what's out there so absolutely thank you for bringing this forward yep and even if we improve it just 20 or 25% that's a big improve yeah yeah all right uh councilman Bren I'm just curious to why staff couldn't make that phone call and ask how it's going or how it's working than have to pay a contract well because uh I'm not sure SEF has the expertise to evaluate the intersection that's what we're paying fville and Donovan to do and they have not given us a price but it should not be real expensive for them to go and investigate it and come back and give us a report and then we can say before Memorial Day let's implement this and try it absolutely right any other questions all right seeing none call the vote the future is here all right eyes have it 60 so moved all right thank you may I have one other item as I went through the agenda tonight I noticed that there were no legisl ative sponsors with the exception of Mr G who was a legislative sponsor for one thing so we are continuing to put things on the agenda that are legislative and uh policy in nature without having a legislative sponsor on the council so we continue to blur the lines between what our job is and what perhaps staff's job is we can't tell staff what to do and they can't legislate so I will work with Miss cop to bring back a resolution at the next meeting that says if it doesn't have a legislative sponsor except for housekeeping or state mandated legislative acts then it's not on the agenda right we can vote on it oh was that a motion oh oh you're bringing it up I see I'll be glad to be the legislative sponsor yes I'm yeah for residential design uh cman Bagby anything tonight sir I do um so could you add underneath my name for the next meeting an update on Crystal Shores because I noticed by the spreadsheet that it is paused and that doesn't make sense to me we said we're not buying the White House we can't afford the White House and let's move forward with what our plans were I'd also like for you to put underneath my name an update at the next meeting on the pickle ball courts which I think we've done everything we've got the bids back we've opened the bids we you know what the heck are we waiting on on the dang pickle ball course have we gone back out to bid well we redid the bid right yes we opened and the bid committee is reviewing and we'll have a recommendation at the next meeting yes we will thank you very much I appreciate that the uh and then just to clarify there was a discussion I was not at the august 19 18 meeting which I didn't think I was what you decided on the fee for the short-term rentals was initially I think Mr G made a 30 Cent per square foot but then Mr dtin made an amendment to say just use the current fee structure and that's actually what y'all passed with the mayor's vote breaking the tie so that was number three yeah so that is so that is what the direction was on the fee schedule was basically use the one that we have and I think when it comes back and we bring a feast structure it should be a little bit less you know than a but we'll we'll do that and I think that's all I have for tonight thank you mayor thank you uh AB is not here Council M thank you sir first I'd like to thank Sherry Andrews uh she sent an email I've fored over to Larry she is a resident here that was an ISO per beon MasterCard for 10 years I'm learning in ISO is an independent sales office so she's dealt with this where she's managed it personally and she is willing she gave her phone number and she's willing to answer any questions we may have um moving forward on that uh credit card crap other than that I'm good thank you all very much all right customman yeah thank you um did you want to appoint somebody I'm sorry to the C to the town center there's three who are you asking you before before you give up your talking time not at this time okay we can do it at the next meeting for sure uh thank you there was a uh an accident I guess you could say between a scooter and a v vehicle this afternoon or evening on Legion and Nautica not sure if yall saw that email yet it's actually in front of my uh sister and brother-in-law's house uh and that brought up a reminder to me that we've talked a couple times about possible ordinance changes or new ordinance rules for the ebikes and the scooters um and I think at one point we had a workshop as well and I think staff was maybe going to bring us back some ideas from that Workshop so I've seen it on social media for the past handful of months about the the laws between city state county and all that so um what I'm thinking if it's duable is if we could work with the sheriff's department to work with staff to bring us back now the rules of of the road versus the sidewalk versus the it the the you know um exits neighborhoods and bike Lanes if we can have that presentation brought to us that allows us to possibly make a informative decision about updating our our codes and ordinances to possibly Implement something for scooters and ebikes once and for all so I'll make the motion Larry are we allowed to work with Sheriff's Department are we able to certain I guess direct Larry to work with Sheriff's Department is that a doable for the contract we have with them so yeah i' make that motion if you guys could get together and there is a workshop I'm sure y'all can look at that if you want but or you can just come and bring us back the laws the rules the ideas and let us possibly make some decisions for safety of pedestrians everybody I'll second that motion because I've been getting a lot of the same complaints I believe at the moment it's illegal to have a motorized vehicle on the sidewalk it's very yeah and I fig there's there's a lot of that you know and if we could have it presented to us and make that decision I think that'd be great thank you yeah are you going to be the legislative sponsor yes and please put me on as the legislative sponsor on this item kids don't own one yet right oh man um cool um anything else well I would like to make that motion oh sorry sorry got a second all right got second from Dewey uh call I guess my only comment on there before I call um is I think the most cheapest most effective way to do this is if we're on a what I would call a multimodal pathway so probably more than your traditional 4 feet let's just stripe a line down the middle there's a walker side and there's a biking side and I get it when they go too fast it goes from 27 miles an hour then it it knocks it up knocks it down I get it we can't really radar them cuz oh my God all these things I just I'm my vote if I get another if my number nine votes is uh this I would love a simple striped line down any of these larger sidewalks like Airport Road and put a little person on one side put a little biker on the other and there you have it but we'll see where we go there's my two cents anyone else before we vote yep you have some yes yep Jump On In I I think we I think we need to um on Airport Road I think we need to uh modify the lanes to 10 ft and have a bike lane so that those bikers can be in that bike lane not on that sidewalk but that is a wide sidewalk so it's kind of something to look at instead of putting the stripe down the middle of the sidewalk there's a lot of roads that we need to restripe so um but I'm thinking that if you're looking at suntrail money um for the linear Park the n in suntrail means nonmotorized vehicles and I think parents need to know that when they buy their kids these little motorized vehicles and they're running around the neighborhoods uh I've almost hit a couple of them we all have um that I don't know who's liable for that you know is that neglect on the parents part because they bought it and their kids riding around even though they have a helmet they got a helmet I I don't know the answer to that question but I would like to have the answer to that question y Council M go and I agree with the councilwoman shemel the 45 mph in Airport Road makes sense all right we got a motion on the floor let's call call the question me too thank you uh I was the Miss Lisa the mayor stated that the uh Morgan Sports Center playground is going to be ready to go by Memorial on Facebook and when the mayor speaks on Facebook a lot of things are happening around here so you're darn right are we are we built is are are staff building that as I know it's got delivered or is there a contractor or something yes okay so the contractor um we have 25 pallets of more um uh equipment coming in this week um and we're staff we will bring it down to the sand so the rest of the safety surfacing and all the equipment will be coming down and that'll be as soon as the uh contractor the playground contractor he's been talking to me every week we're getting close to even to leveling it and he says so he's like ready to roll when it's ready once every well once all the equipment Ares and then level yes but he will let me know that so we have it leveled when they can do it first thing that's great so he's kind of like he's not three months behind like he's ready to roll when we're ready no there the the Nets are a little late coming in but um yeah he's he's ready to go as soon as um he's ready we are going to be ready sounds great thanks Mr Mayor for speaking on Facebook listen I I posted before I commented before you did check the check the time stamp thank you uh that's all I have thank you very much much all right appreciate it um so the one I have on here is going to be the lobbyist engagement policy so one of you two want to thank you Mr Mayor uh you have well you have a four years res resolution somewhat dictating how we're going to engage our lobbyist um she's certainly available for any of you to reach out to with questions or if you need some information about an agency or anything as such however anything that we're going to take an official position on whether it's um requesting Appropriations whether it's lobbying for or against either legislation or policies or any official action we're going to ask her to take we would ask for counsel action and that at be funnel through the city manager's office so there's one point of contact in both directions for those type of issues but again once you get to know Kelly you will recognize the fact that she certainly don't mind a phone call asking for some help on how we might get something accomplished uh but so that's the the Crux of the policy before you in the form of resolution all right so at that point I would entertain a motion motion to approve okay got a motion and a second by councilwoman treml man it's getting late I guess I'm losing my mojo all right any discussions on the policy I have just one question I noticed in there it said emergency decisions could be made in absence of council Direction although they would have to be reported at the next meeting I was just under wondering under what circumstances an emergency would arise in the lobbying business that's probably a good question and I don't know that I have a good answer um and if you would rather that not be there we can omit it but I can assure that it would be uh an extreme situation either through a a hurricane situation that something's going on that needs some immediate action that we would have the authority to step up and say hey we need this done but we would certainly not do it in lie of council action but when we felt it was prudent to move forward and report back to get I I would leave it in because after all you work for us yeah and if you were not working for us that would be a problem yes sir I understand all right I don't see anything further on the topic I'll call the vote all right I have it so moved um something I just wanted to bring up and and put under my name for uh the next meeting is the fpnl utility WS uh it's been over a year they all still look uh brand new and a lot like um the rotary club with the rescue tubes they have found sponsors in the community that have just wanted to put their family name their trust their business um I don't even think on the rap in my opinion but in this case I I think there would be plenty of Goodwill Samaritans willing to help us fund the the Ws and I think we've proven from Over the year that uh that there's clearly no wear and tear and so I was just going to put that under my name as just kind of a year review how much did it cost then what did we end up doing updates of the photos and just you know if it's worth pushing forward what does that look like um again this might be something that falls kind of in parallel with the park Foundation but I know that was a pilot program and in my opinion it seems to be going well so I just wanted to put that under my name all right City attorney I oh yeah yeah please Mrs treml says she needs two more people on the Harbor Sea on the Town Center sea area thank you yeah yeah or she will not be able to have her meeting with them yes so where was our list we have Kyle Davis Margie Avery and Mike Jones Kyle Davis was born and raised here and he's he was born and raised here and he has come back now and he's a financial adviser on Airport Road um and he's he's also into theater so who El might have some Margie Avery is a um um she works at a bank and she's a financial something person at the bank I haven't and and then Mike Jones oh Margie and Mike both live in Olympus which is in the Town Center CRA so they are residents there uh Kyle Davis uh lives on beach drive right outside of um of of the Town Center but he is a resident of dtin and how many who all has the obligation to nominate somebody Ray I think everyone but myself and bag C member guile Smith hayar Dustin and Braden D so I can see can you read yeah Margie Avery okay motion a second motion a second I know I I'm jealous of you guys talking behind my back over there all right call the vote we could but I'm afraid Kevin's GNA ruin that for me again all right anyway all right we'll take my co of hitting the button next time might have to have repeat that's okay it's only a fee all right with that I got two nominations do I hear both and second second okay but but there's only two only two council members have made nominations we got we need another one's two yep so we do have a quorum all right so uh without further discussion R you look confused I I was just going to say that according to our ordinance for volunteer committees if someone elects not to appoint to a certain committee then other council members can appoint someone instead of that person it doesn't have to be one for one all the all the time yeah so I just wanted you guys to know that if there was anybody else that wanted to appoint Mike can you I'm talking can you please whoever Ry or whoever can you give me that ordinance that she's talking about that allows other council members to appoint people can you provide that to me in the council it was in your packet I send it to yeah it was in your packet last time I'll resend it you know I resend it I got about 500 emails from people today so so anyway um what anybody else I'm talking to people I think we should give everybody till the next meeting that that's fine and and I'll keep working on on other people so new people all right anyway any further discussions on the two seeing none I'll call the vote all right I have it so moved we got a quorum all right right now Kim okay I just have one item uh we got an order in the Dustin fishing fleet uh versus city of Dustin Bert Harris case on the 30th after uh without time to get this in the agenda and I emailed you all as you know we prevailed in all levels of that litigation against the fleet at trial on appeal we haven't lost um on any of that the only issue that remains is attorney's fees and so I would like to call an executive session to discuss the Court's order on attorney's fees and um next steps on that Mo okay let me just give it for the record because I couldn't get it in the agenda it's D Dustin fishing fleet versus city of dtin case number 2019 CA 00425 F and I would like to call it for 5:30 on Tuesday February 18th if that's okay with the council and the clerk that's Wednesday the city addresses is what time 5:30 can we make it at 5 I mean I'm I'm planning we only have we have 30 days so if we go beyond the 30 days we will not be able to if we can do it like a what 550 or something I can I can shrink it down I don't we just do it following his thing no matter what time it is like well we have to give public notice so you no do it well what we could do is yeah we could say 550 or as soon thereafter as May reasonably be heard and whatever time it is is it may not exactly be at 550 but but it won't be before it won't be before uh the sooka the state of the city mayor's having dress I'm going to get dressed last year it was it was very good we watch thank you and and the thing is we have to have a court reporter so I wouldn't have it at the end of the meeting and have her sit she can wait for us this time I mean it can be if you would like to call a special meeting that's another option all right yeah I think right can we are we good with five yeah let's do at five all right everyone's shaking five I mean you're fishing dinner so yeah yeah that's F by me no okay so move all right we're going all right waiting on you all right call the vote Dr T wants Tober hold your piece all right so moved okay so present at the executive session will be the entire city council the mayor the City attorney the city manager and insurance defense Council Bill Warner for our ad Ray thank you for that great public comments anyone here seeing none all right we are adjourned