##VIDEO ID:BJYQBcOT8qU## well we are on the cusp of uh 5:30 so I'm going to go ahead and uh call this meeting to order I think or two two second variance is probably okay she AG she agrees it's perfect all right so uh this meeting of the Planning Commission is called to order uh I assume you have attendance covered all right thank you Jen uh minutes I would look for a motion to approve the minutes from July 25th I'll make a motion to approve the minutes from the August meeting yeah it's a good call I don't know I lost track of time second all right we have a motion in a second is there any discussion uh Corrections updates anything need to be made hearing none all those in favor of approving the minute signify by saying I hi hi oppose same sign motion carries all right we have two public hearings tonight uh the way this will go uh we'll do the public hearing um and the Planning Commission will votee to make a recommendation that will then go to the Community Development Committee uh what is the date of that meeting I didn't I should have looked first what's that oober October 7th at 5:00 pm in the little community room in the back and then the CDC will make a recommendation to the city council and that'll uh be brought to a vote on October 8th then at 5:00 pm right here in the council so with that said uh I will will suspend this meeting and call to order a public hearing to give consideration to a variance to exceed the total allowable square footage of signs at 402 West Lake Drive zorbas Larry so Hansen properties of Detroit Lakes has requested a variance to allow 23.5 square fet of signage instead of 184 square fet of signage that's allowed at 402 West Lake Drive so the additional signage that they're talking about would be on the North north side of the building so that one Tower would have a zorbas lighted zorbas sign like this and then they're talking about some signage on the Gable end of the building that looks like this of course once we grant them a variance to exceed the signage limitation their signage could be anything that they can put up that's allowable signage as long as it meets the square footage that we've given them variance for so they have a linear uh front footage of 92 feet which allows them 184 square fet of signage they currently have 29.5 squ fet of signage which is 25.5 square feet over what is permitted I'm not sure how that happened or how that came about but that's not necessarily the issue here tonight the issue here tonight is should we grant them a variance to allow 293 .5 Square ft of signage the applicant states that having public streets on three sides makes them unique but there are a number of businesses in town with the same situation that have adequate signage for their businesses and just as a couple of examples Central Market is one of those businesses and so is Ace Hardware and Fairfield in staff recommends denial of the variant as the applicant has not demonstrated that there is a practical difficulty or unique circumstances with the property that prevents them from meeting the zoning ordinance requirements consideration should be given to the following findings that staff has prepared first the variance is not in harmony with the purpose and intent of the zoning ordinance in part the purpose of the city's signed ordinance are as follows to maintain and enhance the aesthetic environment to minimize possible adverse effects of signs on nearby public and private property to protect and promote health safety General Welfare Aesthetics and image of the community to establish standards which permit businesses a reasonable and Equitable opportunity to advertise their name and service the intent of this ordinance is to limit the amount of signage to meet the various purposes listed above without creating adverse impacts by allowing too much signage number two the variance is not consistent with the comprehensive plan is the plan calls for commercial uses to be adequately screened or buffered from any adjacent residential use allowing excess signage does not buffer the commercial use from residential areas number three The Proposal does not put the property to use in a reasonable manner the property owner has a reasonable use of property without the variance as they are allowed 184 Square ft of signage number four there are not circumstances that are unique to the property that would justify the owner to exceed invitation there are other properties in [Music] town with public streets on three sides that have adequate signage without needing a variance and examples were listed earlier number five the variance will not maintain the essential character of the neighborhood as it would introduce more signage than the businesses currently allow in the application the applicant presented their their findings or what they believed to be the reason that they should be granted a variance and I will read those to you number one the variance is in harmony with the purpose and intent of the ordinance the proposed signs do maintain and enhance the artistic aesthetic environment of the area the sence help the business with its Economic Development and growth number two the variance is consistent with the comprehensive plan in the comprehensive plan the the goals of the city are to maintain and improve commercial areas which are vital to the continued growth and success of DL allowing business owners to reasonably expand and encourage investment in their businesses increase property value and tax collections number three The Proposal does put the property to use in a reasonable manner the property is a wellestablished restaurant that is a landmark for the city of DL the additional sign request for the business name above the door and artwork signage is very reasonable number four the circumstances are unique to the property the ordinance stimulates that excuse me stipulates that the amount of signage is based on the lineal footage of Frontage of the lot including a corner lot this property actually has public streets on three of the four sides of the property as a result there are doors at the back side of the building that is a public Street number five the variant will maintain the essential character of the neighbor neighborhood the businesses on Westlake Drive are primarily in and in particular the food service business the additional signage on the back side of the building along people Street will certainly maintain the essence of the character of the locality so the Planning Commission needs to determine which findings they agree with and make their recommendation according great thank you Larry um at this time I would open it up for a public comment if you'd like to to uh address the Planning Commission I'm I'm sorry could I ask you to come up to the the podium and then state your name and address for the record thank you very much Jeff Bame uh from Detroit Lakes with Lighthouse construction we prepared the uh variant um we do think it's reasonable and uh to Larry's Point I I don't know some of those signs may have been up for decades um because zorbas has been there since 1969 and uh I'm guessing some of the signs were probably up before variances like this were even in existence uh we didn't know the square footage until we actually applied for this variance um we think it's reasonable that the business owner should be able to put it his name above a door that goes into the property and I guess the other question is I looked in the ordinance I don't I don't know what the definition of a sign actually is because like the second set that we're asking for is really more artwork versus aign and you know the city I think has encouraged some of that like the Hub 41 has some nice artwork on both sides of the building uh like the VFW the whole one side honors our veterans as a you know is that a sign for the VFW or you know is that a piece of artwork so I'm not not sure uh like if that second set is really a sign or is it artwork so I mean we're asking what we think is a reasonable request you have any questions uh if we do I will'll definitely ask you to back up so thanks all right are there any other uh comments for the Planning Commission any other comments anyone else that would like to make a comment any anyone else all right hearing none I'm going to close the public hearing and I'll open it up uh for the Planning Commission to discuss Larry maybe you could start off by just addressing the definition of a sign for us okay I know it's not it's a small it's a small ask I'm gonna look and see if we have that defined in the zoning ordinance and then otherwise we have to take just the Webster definition of a sign sure sometimes some of the are I don't know what it how you define it but I know it when I see it so clearly the Zorba's name is a sign um what when does a sign become a mural and it's not I guess when it's not advertising the business and it's a mural that's a that's not necessarily a sign but hold on to we do not have a definition of sign in our ordinance so you'd have to go with what Websters would Define as a sign and I don't have a Websters dictionary on my computer I do if you'd like me to read the definition from the website I certainly can okay I might have spoke I might have spoken too soon I apologize since most of these are oh sorry I have it a display such as a letter board or configuration of neon tubing used to identify or advertise a place of business or a product a posted command warning or Direction and then they have a sign board with a link outf piece of directs ATT to an object activity person insti organization or visits however a sign shall not include any display of official court or government off he found that in section three 3 A7 very good thank you so if we look at the signs that are up there again Larry can you put it back sure we can get back I'm pretty sure at least two out of three meet the definition of what I just heard one is advertising products and services that are offered at oras and the other one is obviously unsure what the party Foul means anybody younger want to help it's a foul like a bird it's a foul as a bird but party Foul like I how do you explain party F they're they're making uh a pun they're making fun of okay it's a loon right it's a loon so it's a bird fowel but and it has the sorus on it right are we making comments yeah I'm sorry uh commission feel free to ask questions and make comments on the findings that staff presented there doesn't appear to be a practical difficulty in this location that would warrant a variance and I if we give a variance here we're not really varying from our ordinance we're ignoring it lry can you remind me the other businesses that have front on three streets you say Central Central Market um Fairfield in and uh Ace Hardware and the square footage for their signage is based on their based on Frontage correct Mr chair I have so what like Central Market which front is there calculated Highway 10 or no it's not calculated on Highway 10 it's based on one of the narrower sides so probably the McKinley Avenue side thanks Liz yeah I do have a question for you uh Mr BR um you use Mark as a definition within one of your findings that are there and for many years and still as part of the Zorba's um branding the big Z is there have you considered utilizing the big Z in place of that large word Zoras which would get you within compliance of the ordinance correct Larry I don't know if that would get them into compliance they're over the amount of signing already oh I'm sorry with the existing signage that's oh misunderstood that thank you but your thinking is not wrong if they would minimize their other signage they could possibly have some signage over on this side of the building but they would have to change all of their signage maybe I don't know ncy yeah I just wanted to um address his point as far as the artwork having served on the arts and culture um commission um we have been definitely trying to encourage art art within the the city and I don't remember exactly but if I remember um when the artwork that was approved in the different locations um I think there were limitations as far as not having any advertising which my understanding would be you know the name of the business um is that correct I think it's difficult to come up with a a direct answer just off the cuff because certainly uh there are emblems that would be considered advertising that wouldn't necessarily State the business's name like like Liz mentioned a z would certainly be signage not artwork the artwork though does have the small Z in the right corner it does it it has it on the and on the hat you know but if I mean I like the artwork you know I don't have to totally understand the whole thing but I like that we've added artwork around the community and um I remember that uh I mean at the time the arts and culture commission was mostly trying to find businesses that would say yes and um I don't remember which part of the city we had to go through to have that approved it wasn't signage right no I I haven't been involved with the Arts commission so I don't know which um Council committee they went through to get their approvals right so if this has artwork that didn't have zorbas on it but added art would that not fall into your um St consideration of would be like the murals that are on the murals correct okay and so what would have to change with this artwork to have it be a mural and not a sign you're asking a good question but I am not necessarily the person to answer that question fair enough other questions or discussion I don't have a problem with it I think it's nice to see the pictures I think it adds like like Nancy said more artwork back into the community I I don't see this as like a blatant advertisement for zorbas even that has a little Z in the on the hat I just I see colors and art and as far as the sign goes I guess I don't have a problem with with it knowing that we have other places too and I think it It's Tricky then to try to look at this one small SM to look at the sign versus like at Central Market you have a much broader it's a box where this is not a box so yeah I think Larry you pointed out too the the variance would not speak to the type of signage just the amount of total space of the signage and so correct this particular one we might like this one but maybe what if we don't like the next one but the variance would would still stand correct that is correct and I only bring that up just as a point of consideration right uh when we think about what our response will be to this so also um if they if they want to consider doing art work they should go to the arts and culture commission and get the approval that they got for Hub 41 or those other places where they've done artwork okay okay and so then in their building update um they have added a new tower and another door um to me it seems reasonable to have some kind of an Insignia to designate that that is their business what well then what they need to do is rearrange the amount of square footage of signage they they have and eliminate some of the signage they have in other locations so they could do that so since they already are over the allowed signage they have to work a little harder or would they be allowed to stay within the over signage that they have or would they be required to go back to the strict measurement unless they have a previous variance which I'm not aware of um no they would need to bring it into compliance with the 184 square feet okay that would be for any change then at that point any change they make they unless we give a variance they would have to go back to the we're getting measur we're getting into issues now of yeah enforcement of our ordinance and so yeah under now that I know that they are over on their ordinance I am probably going to have to send them a letter telling them to be become in compliance with the ordinance so Mr chair I'll entertain a motion to accept staff's recommendation to deny the variants as presented based on the following findings of facts and the fact that this is in a lake business Zone that has residential areas surrounding it um understanding that it is commercial operation I do not see that it doesn't allow you to use the bus business with uh the intent that was set forth so I would recommend and adopt the following findings that were presented in the staff report okay we have a motion on the table is there a second is there a second is there a second right there's no second so we can continue our discussion or make a different motion well I'm in support of them being able to have a zorbis sign on the tower um and so I you can be in favor of that and still understand not be in favor of the variance no I'm looking at the the findings you know I don't necessarily see that it's not in harmony with um the intent and um I don't I I think their point on it you know it doesn't change the aesthetic environment of the area it's got the sign the zorbit sign is lit up but they have another lit up sign on the side that's not on the building it's a freestanding one and there are variances or ordinances already for what when signs have to go off that it's not really throwing a lot of light onto the residences there's no residence on people's Street and so I I I I don't necessarily see that it's not in harmony I don't agree with that from what they've demonstrated there and that would be my main thing I also think that it's for them to be able to um the the uh consistent with the comprehensive plan um I know that you have in there about the screening and buffering I mean to me that's big trees and shrubs and there's no place for that in that particular corner to do that I'm not sure that that's a reasonable request to stay consistent with the um comprehensive plan so I need to make a motion well you don't need to make a motion but somebody needs to make a motion right um I would like to see them go to the arts and culture commission to discuss your your artwork um I think there is a place for artwork on any business in town that's willing to put artwork on it um yeah I'm not sure that I have a you know it's so I don't have the measurements of just adding the one sign to you have the measurements for what they're requesting as far as the signage so you're saying that there are circumstances unique to this property that justify granting them a variance for signage you're it sounds like what you're saying is a variance but not necessarily this variance correct yeah and just to pipe in here your your role here is to decide whether or not you believe that this variance should be approved uh if that you think that a different variance might be more palpable right it is uh either the applicant can withdraw or you can deny um but you cannot change this variance this variance is this Vari Varan got it and just to kind of add on what Larry was saying remember when we Grant variances they are a property right they live with the property so if you grant x square footage they get x square footage and we might like what they're proposing today but the building could burn down I'll knock on wood so it doesn't um they could build a new building and they still get this require that square footage and they could put that square footage wherever they want that it's not uh divy it up where you want to divy it up it's they get the square footage so just keep that in mind while you're thinking about this okay I make a motion to approve the variance as written okay we have a motion to approve the variance as written is there a second is there a second is that that what you did had ation to deny it I'll second that okay so we have a motion and a second all right any so we have a motion and a second on the table to approve this variance um since this is different than the staff recommendation uh what are you what findings would you use to support that motion I think it I rever back of what Nancy had said on some of it that I do think it sticks within the aesthetic I don't think it impacts the area in a negative manner with where the signage would be going to where the streets are um are you indicating that you would use the applicant's findings yeah yes yes I am okay here we are did we adequately cover that Dylan yes thank you so we have a motion in a second to approve the variance as written using the applicant's findings any further discussion on this all right all those in favor of the motion to approve signify by saying I I I all appros same sign I all right motion carries we'll carry this forward to the Community Development Committee on the S with a recommendation to approve the baring thank you gentlemen appreciate it all right let me uh find my place again here I switched around documents a bunch and one of these that one all right so we are back to the second public hearing I'm going to go ahead and suspend the Planning Commission meeting and I will now call to order a public hearing to give consideration to amending the zoning ordinance of the city of Detroit Lakes relative to cannabis businesses regarding cultivation and Manufacturing Larry okay the state has passed a law that has made use of recreational Cannabis legal they've also made it legal to cultivate cannabis and manufacture products from Cannabis so the city is required to allow certain types of uses that we may or may not agree with but we are bound by by law to do that and so the first step of that is to amend our zoning ordinance with regard to uh cultivation and Manufacturing so the ordinance that you have before you allows cannabis cultivation Outdoors by conditional use in the ra districts in the city and it's subject to the following six conditions that a minimum lot area of 200 contiguous acres is met growth of cannabis plants be set back 50 feet from all lot lines the sale of cannabis products is not allowed on the property the manufacturing or processing of cannabis plants or cannabis products is not allowed the owner must comply with regulations in chapter 342 of Minnesota statutes statutes and the owner must comply with all security fening lighting and other requirements imposed by the state's office of cannabis management uh some of those rules have not yet been made yet and so we don't know what those requirements or fencing might be and then the other part is that we're allowing the manufacturing of adult use cannabis products and hemp products and indoor cultivation in the i1 and the I2 District so that's what this ordinance does is you may be wondering why we haven't addressed the retail use and our our current ordinance allows retail activities in the B1 B2 and B3 districts and the ordinance that we're preparing to deal with cannabis regulations in the city will limit retail sales of cannabis to the B3 District so we don't need to make any changes to our zoning ordinance with regard to that because that is going to be handled separately great so that's what I have for you thank you Larry all right would anyone like to uh make any comments all right please come up if you wouldn't mind stating your name and address for the record my name is Michael Mund and I have a business at 1112 Jackson Avenue and I live in Pelican Rapids um I have been looking at this uh ordinance and the only real thing that is kind of troubling is uh so there's different types of cultivation licenses there's kind of a larger cultivation license um and then there's the micro bus license which allows just a very small um amount of cultivation and um so I foresee and from what I've seen um in the reporting that there is um no real fullscale cultivation applicants in this area um only there's two micro business and one meso business which is um the micro business can you can have a cultivation endorsement and for the meso business it's just retail locations um so uh I actually applied for the cultivation license um and along with in the micro business license along with the retail um and so some of the it just seems like the industrial area it's a great place yep um and especially for larger cultivations but for this the state kind of considers them craft grows they're kind of a smaller um kind of cultivation facility um and they can range from just a few you know from a couple hundred square feet and the maximum um for a micro business would be 5,000 square feet um there's very few to be honest there's very few buildings in the B2 that you could have the combination of retail and cultivation in the same building um which um could be optimal especially for employees that work both places um there's honestly only one uh spot that I've looked at that is considered a B2 that has that kind of space and that's right up there next to the SandBar it's currently Northland welding um um they have a big shop and um I've tried to convince him that he might want to rent the whole thing but based on this I wouldn't be able to have the cultivation in the back and then the the actual retail in the front um and the cultivation would have to be at a separate spot um and um so I guess I would say that to consider some you know put a maybe a square footage on another thing I'd like to do would be to um educate people and to have live plants right there you know it's a lot easier to teach people on how to and really i' I've got a hydroponic store and so I've been teaching people how to grow for the last year and there's a lot of people around that are really interested in that side of it and so to be able to further that by you know having live plants that weren't at the cultivation facility someplace that they could actually get a look and oh this is what it's supposed to be and this is how it's supposed to go and use those for classes in the retail store it would be nice too um but uh I guess I would say consider having these micro grows in uh B2 areas and they will absolutely be you know doctrin by the state you know as far as security and all the all those pieces that need to go into a cultivation facility um so there's going to be some big rules anyway um so to limit it to oh you can be in these in this little square here um might not be in the best interest um um of the business and you know all the employees and everything too um so I I I would say consider you know maybe putting a 5,000 square foot limit on the B2 area and um so that depending on what the state says that it would be at least a opportunity for those micro businesses to have that where you know the public can actually kind of unnecessarily interact but at least can see it and and know uh what what they're getting where their project is kind of coming from um and I've seen it in a lot of other states a lot of other states will have their retail and then they'll have a big window and they'll show their their growing cultivation facility behind it um which I know when I go in I'm like oh I know they do it this way oh that's you know expect a better product or whatever so I would I would suggest that you allow a smaller um those micr craft grows in the B2 if applicable if it follows all the other state kind of processes um yeah yeah just because it's not the big grows that you know some people are thinking about you know where it's 10,000 square feet and you're you you know got a lot of smell going on and a lot of waste water you know and all this stuff that needs to be accounted for you know uh so I would say yeah consider doing uh letting the craft grows um up to a certain square footage be in the uh in the B2 section okay thank you very much appreciate your comments all right any other comments from anyone any further comments all right hearing none I'm going to close the public hearing and uh I'll bring it back for questions comments and discussion by the commission I have a question Larry um it seems to me a little bit the um car before the horse with the you know whatever is imposed by the office of cannabis is it not prudent to wait and see what all of that is to see how that fits into Detroit lights wait and see is not an option because starting January 1st people are going to be applying for licenses and want to be able to locate so we have to have our ordinances in place before January 1 and I think I'm going to clarify what Larry said to us he said some of the things aren't def oh sorry I don't have a voice some of the things aren't defined in the statute such as odor management M but Larry's right the statute do say here's a micro business and the definition of a micro business license and here's a macro and cultivator Growers and things like that would that be correct that is correct but we do have to take action now and be ready and we have to determine which commercial areas we think are right for retail the determination has been made at least for providing the city council with a draft ordinance the city staff has looked at different regulations and has determined that manufacturing and indoor cultivation belong in industrial district because of issues surrounding that and chair may ask Larry a couple of questions John thank you uh Larry I have a couple of questions and I'm just gonna give you some cited reference docks and the fact that I have land out in California where it's been legal to cultivate and grow since and the licensing in Santa Barbara County since 1920 or since 2022 um some of the things as a cannabis cultivator you've got us an ordinance that says it here but it doesn't say it outdoor specific and you want it to be outdoor specific only you're not talking about indoor cultivation are you in this ordinance we are talking about outdoor outdoor so can we we should we'll change that okay so that was my first note on it because we are not addressing the indoor cultivation if you're if you have any questions would you come up mind coming up just so that we can make sure we capture all of it thank you I really appreciate it y i uh so what was I saying uh it says in your regulations to have 200 Acres continuous um and I could see that for an outdoor grow and really when I read it I was like there's no place in DL that you can really have 200 acres in the city anyway um together that I know of um but uh for so I didn't think that that necessarily pertained to the indoor grows uh which it seems like now after going through it that might be the case is where you know the way it's written is that you would need a warehouse on 200 Acres I don't think I'm reading it that way uh Larry that the intent was that in the ra District we were only talking about fields and outdoor growth right we weren't going to allow indoor growth in the ra District but only in the industrial district so can I ask question Larry because you brought in a discussion is there within our zoning ordinance an area that fits the definition as is written now on our zoning map I have not looked to see if there are any 200 acre plots there possibly are I know that in the past there have been can that to be because a few years well some years back we bought 390 Acres of RA land that we have converted into an industrial park so there have been 200 acre plots in the city may I make a request that we have a z m that identifies that yes um couple more comments that I am going to make only because I have to drive by the area that is currently being cultivated and it does have a pretty good ordinance in Santa Barbara County that says there's fencing there's security there's everything um our ordinance as it's drafted now I really would like to see odor management as part of a critical piece even though I do know that the Minnesota chapter has not defined what odor management means but I'm pretty sure there's some residential communities that wouldn't want um to consider the amount of odor that's coming or even some of the things that are coming from security fencing and Lighting in that area so you're talking then just about this particular section J with adding another condition Rel relative to odor management or or adding it to j6 including odor management um the next one that I'm going to bring up is volatile solvents in the cultivation outdoor um I'm not an expert at it but I know there are means that need to be done to remove the flower the heads and things in the cultivation process and um I do believe there are some EXC volatile solvents that are involved in some of that farming of that I would say that that's probably more manufacturing um there's some very little would probably be used especially in outdoor um that you wouldn't use in a regular farm and probably less and and more safe usually than regular Farms especially when it's tested and commercial but um I wanted to point out to your smell um uh comment that I'm I'm pretty sure that the state will have a a smell um kind of condition to it but um to uh address that locally might be really beneficial also just because the state is you know there's a lot lot of B2 that's really close to residential and um you might want to even go a little tighter than they do whether you do it now or make another ordinance later or whatever but it's it seems like yeah no you're you're right and as far as you know outdoor goes I don't think there's going to be any outdoor fields in Detroit Lakes um but I mean in Becker County possibly um but that's something we can really do here um should we be considering also a sensitive sensitive area restriction Larry in this ordinance just to make sure we're guarded you know you know should we say okay it's so many feet from a residential so many feet from a school so many feet it actually has that in there you could do that I'm not sure Mr Mund can I can I just ask that you hold your comments I'll give you another opportunity to to comment at the end but I'd really like to to complete the discussion but absolutely I want to hear from you again okay thank you I appreciate it is that possible that we look at that is possible senstive restriction and and just so you guys know micro business as he referred to does include a half acre outdoor in the licensing component there's an indoor and an outdoor component that's a half acre that's already currently under the Minnesota statute there's 100 micro business licenses that are going to be issued starting January 1 and that includes 5,000 square feet indoor definition or an half an acre outdoor definition so we don't need to address that to put that in this it should be coming down the pipe I'm sorry what do we need to then make any other recommendations of defining between what is indoor what's outdoor and the guidelines between those or is that coming down the point from what the state is going to be advising well indoor and outdoor are pretty clear definitions without being defined we know what the difference is between indoor and outdoor but I I think what I heard Jenna say was the micro um the the not the large micro the the fact that the state would license a micro business doesn't mean that we have to allow them to have both of those operations at the same location so we choose to have our manufacturing and cultivation in a different place other than the B3 District we can do that so at this point we're not the city has not addressed what they're going to do with micro um the city has addressed what they're allowing through this zoning ordinance they're talking about where they're going to allow cultivation and Manufacturing and through their other licensing and cannabis ordinance they're defining that retail sales will only be allowed in the B3 District but I don't see where subject to subject to um um some limitations as far as distances from each other distances from dayc carees and things like that the minimum lot area of 200 continuous Acres would not allow for that Halfacre micro business within City Limits is that an accurate statement not they would not be allowed to do the outdoor cultivation they would have they do the indoor cultivation in the i1 OR I2 district with the way we WR this ordinance correct okay sorry Jenna did you no I just want to make sure like if we needed to be adding something in in regards to indoor micro business or if that's already covered somewhere else I'm not I think so so let's let's set the retail aside we're not addressing retail whatsoever in this in this today we're talking about the outdoor cultivation and the indoor cultivation and and and Manufacturing as two separate topics really that's the JJ and the KK correct at the bottom correct I just don't see in those the zones I it's not it's just refers to that Minnesota St statute correct and in that Minnesota statute it it designates which zones those are no we're designating those because these are if you look at it says section 14 subdivision 2 JJ and KK um section 14 is the light industrial section of our ordinance okay yes then the heavy industrial allows all of the uses in the light industrial district okay so it inherits it then so the way that this is written the we allow outdoor cultivation on a large tract of land in an RA Zone that's contiguous meets all these requirements plus anything that we might add from a condition and then we allow indoor cultivation and Manufacturing within the industrial areas based on that section 14 subdivision to JJ and KK okay and then it's to to your question of do we need to address it if there are things that we think we need to address we can recommend adding those okay to as additional conditions uh or changes to the recommended ordinance this is what staff is recommending at this point does that adequately answer your question good okay further discussion or questions so what I've heard on the table so far um we've said we need to add the word outdoor to the subdivision five or the section five Edition is that what you heard as well Larry yes and then um we discussed but did not decide whether or not we need to add odor management solvent restrictions uh in the number six in sensitive area in number six right I got that one too right uh so do we you know and and this can be this we'll have to address this through a motion but we discussed adding an odor management odor management and then solvent restrictions I think you said section six and then we had discussed adding a sensitive areas restriction um did that did I capture all of that correctly y I would still like to see a zoning map applicable to the Z do you want to see that zoning m before we take action is the question that would be my would like to see happen but I think we're getting pretty tight on our timeline right we are very tight on our timeline right what's our well this will go to the council at their October meeting and then they would have second reading at their November meeting so that means there's only one council meeting left before January 1st so there isn't a lot of time to deal with that what's your concern about the 200 acre limitation I will get to your promise well let's talk about waste disposal I mean I guess we really don't have to worry about it because our current storm water management doesn't run through our waste facility and for repurpose or re generative reason so we don't have to worry about that but do we have to worry about those kind of things if the plot of land happens to be on our waste management system and in our storm water area do we have to worry about it if it if we don't include for example residential in sensitive areas in the definition not just schools child care those kind of things I mean do we include residential in the sensitive area definition without knowing exactly where that plot of land could potentially be well my preference was to leave agriculture in the county where it belongs he said his preference was to leave agriculture in the county where it belongs and then we wouldn't have to try and address all of these issues and concerns but we're here yes we are but we do have ra zones is what is what is what we're we're deciding on the ra zones that are still within the city correct okay or to be in the city in the future or to be in the city and that's was my next question with any kind of an annexation in the future right and I believe when we anex the default is RA unless we decide default is RA unless we specifically choose otherwise right okay all right uh Mr Mund if you'd like to make a brief comment I'll allow it now and then just a few things you guys might want to address like um how is a how is a greenhous house sit as far as indoor outdoor um is that indoor does it have walls in a roof um has walls potentially and yes roof yes yes it's indoor okay um and uh so as far as the timeliness of this goes there's they are looking to be awarding or have their lottery for these businesses before the first hopefully next next month is what they're hoping for so to have this you know done in a timely manner I guess would probably be to the benefit um just wanted to speak to that also and uh yeah no that and again I would say to uh consider having um a you know micro Row in and and to comment on your Wastewater all that has been touched on by the state and I'm sure they'll have more regulations um where you don't necessarily need more regulations on top of that I think they'll probably do a pretty good job um and as far as you know like you say solvents the manufacturing is definitely going to have things like that that are you know if you look at you know corn oil you know big corn oil producers in the state they have giant facilities and you know so there's a couple of hemp producers hemp manufacturers around that have pretty good size facilities too and I don't know and I think most of those are not in the city but you might consider looking at manufacturing um as far as you know those solvents and um even noise you know uh but to have a half acre greenhouse in the middle of town might be a something you might not want um so I would I would say you know maybe consider putting some rules on that they weren't I had asked her to M uh to uh mute them earlier and just as a note the mics are always on and if you need to cough or something press the button to turn it off but they'll always be on so om at all all be yeah yeah no Whispers no Whispering big brother may not be watching but he's listening thanks Larry CU that was so much better all right well we are on the cusp of uh 5:30 so I'm gonna go ahead and uh call this meeting to order I think you're two two second variance is probably okay she AG she agrees it's perfect all right so uh this meeting of the Planning Commission is called to order uh I assume you have attendance covered all right thank you Jen uh minutes I would look for a motion to approve the minutes from July 25th I'll make a motion to approve the minutes from the August meeting yeah it's a good call I don't know I lost TR of time second all right we have a motion in a second is there any discussion uh Corrections updates anything need to be made hearing none all those in favor of approving the minute signify by saying I I I oppos same sign motion carries all right we have two public hearings tonight uh the way this will go uh we'll do the public hearing um and the Planning Commission will vote and make a recommendation that will then go to the Community Development Committee uh what is the date of that meeting I didn't I should have looked first what's that October 7th at 5:00 pm in the little community room in the back and then the CDC will make a recommendation to the city council and that'll uh be brought to a vote on October 8th then at 5:00 p.m. right here in the council so with that said uh I will suspend this meeting and call to order a public hearing to give consideration to a variance to exceed the total allowable square footage of signs at 402 West Lake Drive zorbas Larry so Hansen properties of Detroit Lakes has requested a variance to allow 293.50 square feet of signage instead of 184 squ ft of signage that's allowed at 402 West Lake Drive so the additional signage that they're talking about would be on the north side of the building so that one Tower would have a zorbas lighted zorbas sign like this and then they're talking about some signage on the Gable end of the building that looks like this of course once we grant them a Varian to exceed the signage limitation their signage could be anything that they can put up that's allowable signage as long as it meets the square footage that we've given them the variance for so they have a linear uh front footage of 92 feet which allows them 184 square feet of signage they currently have 29.5 Square ft of signage which is 25.5 Square fet over what is permitted I'm not sure how that happened or how that came about but that's not necessarily the issue here tonight the issue here tonight T is should we grant them a variance to allow 293.50 Square ft of signage the applicant states that having public streets on three sides makes them unique but there are a number of businesses in town with the same situation that have adequate signage for their businesses and just as a couple of examples Central Market is one of those businesses and so is Ace Hardware and Fairfield in staff recommends denial of the variants as the applicant has not demonstrated that there is a practical difficulty or unique circumstances with the property that prevents them from meeting the zoning ordinance requirements consideration should be given to the following findings that staff has prepared first the variance is not in harmony with the purpose and intent of the zoning ordinance in part the purpose of the city's signed ordinance are as follows to maintain and enhance the aesthetic environment to minimize possible adverse effects of signs on nearby public and private property to protect and promote health safety General Welfare Aesthetics and image of the community to establish standards which permit businesses a reasonable and Equitable opportunity to advertise their name and service the intent of this ordinance is to limit the amount of signage to meet the various purposes listed above without creating adverse impacts by allowing to signage number two the variance is not consistent with the comprehensive plan as the plan calls for commercial uses to be adequately screened or buffered from any adjacent residential use allowing excess signage does not buffer the commercial use from residential areas number three The Proposal does not put the property to use in a reasonable manner the property owner has a reasonable use of property without the variance as they are allowed 18 4 Square ft of signage number four there are not circumstances that are unique to the property that would justify the owner to exceed a limitation there are other properties in [Music] town with public streets on three sides that have adequate signage without needing a variance and examples were listed earlier number five the variance will not maintain the essential character of the neighborhood as it would introduce more more signage than the business has currently allowed in the application the applicant presented their their findings or what they believe to be the reason that they should be granted a variance and I will read those to you number one the variance is in harmony with the purpose and intent of the ordinance the proposed signs do maintain and enhance the artistic aesthetic environment of the area the signs help the business with its Economic Development and growth number two the variance is consistent with the comprehensive plan in the comprehensive plan the goals of the city are to maintain and improve commercial areas which are vital to the continued growth and success of DL allowing business owners to reasonably expand and encourage investment in their businesses increase property value in tax collections number three The Proposal does put the property to use in a reasonable manner the property is a wellestablished restaurant that is a landmark for the city of DL the additional sign request for the business name above the door and artwork signage is very reasonable number four the circumstances are unique to the property the ordinance stimulates that excuse me stipulates that the amount of signage is based on the lineal footage of Frontage of the lot including a corner lot this property actually has public streets on three of the four sides of the property as a result there are doors at the back side of the building that is a public Street number five the variant will maintain the essential character of the neighborhood the businesses on West Lake Drive are primarily in and in particular the food service business the additional signage on the back side of the building along people Street will certainly maintain the essence of the character of the locality so the Planning Commission needs to determine which findings they agree with and make their recommendation according great thank you Larry um at this time I would open it up for a public comment if you'd like to uh address the Planning Commission I'm je could I'm sorry could I ask you to come up to the the podium and then state your name and address for the record thank you very much Jeff Bame uh from Detroit Lakes with Lighthouse construction we prepared the uh variance um we do think it's reasonable and uh to Larry's Point I don't know some of those signs may have been up for decades um because zorbas has been there since 1969 and uh I'm guessing some of the signs were probably up before variances like this were even in existence uh we didn't know the square footage until we actually applied for this variance um we think it's reasonable that the business owner should be able to put it his name above a door that goes into the property and I guess the other question is I looked in the ordinance I don't know what the definition of a sign actually is because like the second set that we're asking for is really more artwork versus aign and you know the city I think has encouraged some of that like the Hub 41 has some nice artwork on both sides of the building uh like the VFW the whole one side honors our veterans as a you know is that a sign for the VFW or is you know is that a piece of artwork so I'm not sure uh like if that second set is really a sign or is it artwork so I mean we're asking what we think is a reasonable request you have any questions uh if we do I we'll definitely ask you to back up so thanks all right are there any other uh comments for the Planning Commission any other comments anyone else that would like to make a comment anyone else all right hearing none I'm going to close the public hearing and I'll open it up uh for the Planning Commission to discuss Larry maybe you could start off by just addressing the definition of a sign for us okay I know it's not it's a small it's a small ask I'm gonna look and see if we have that defined in the zoning ordinance and then otherwise we have to take the Webster definition of the sign sure sometimes some of the definition are I don't know what it how you define it but I know it when I see it so clearly the Zorba's name is a sign what when does a sign become a mural and it's not I guess when it's not advertising the business and it's a mural that's a that's not necessarily a sign but hold on what we do not have a definition of sign in our ordinance You' have to go with what Websters would Define as a sign and I don't have a Webster dictionary on my computer I do if you'd like me to read the definition from the website I certainly can okay I might SP I might have spoken too soon I apologize since most of these are oh sorry I have it a display such as a letter board or configuration of neon tubing used to identify or advertise a place of business or a product a posted command warning or Direction and then they have a sign board with a link indirect which directs ATT to object acity person organ however sign shall not include any display of official govern office em found that in section three yeah 3 A7 very good thank you so if we look at the signs that are up there again Larry can you put it back sure we can get back I'm pretty sure at least two out of three meet the definition of what I just heard one is advertising products and services that are offered in Zoras and the other one is obviously the zorus name unsure what the party Foul means anybody younger want to help it's a fou like a bird it's a foul as a bird but party Foul like how do you explain party fou they're they're making uh a pun they're making fun of it's a loon right it's a loon so it's a bird fowl but and it has the sorbus Hat on it right are we making coms yeah I'm sorry uh commission feel free to ask questions and make comments based on the findings that staff presented there doesn't appear to be a practical difficulty in this location that would warrant a variance and I if we give a variance here we're not really varying from our ordinance we're ignoring it Larry can you remind me the other businesses that have Frontage on three streets you say Central Central Market um Fairfield in and uh Ace hard s and the square footage for their signage is based on their based on their Frontage correct Mr chair I have so what like Central Market which front is there cway 10 no it's not calculated on Highway 10 it's based on one of the narrower sides so probably the McKinley Avenue side thanks Liz yeah I do have a question for you uh Mr BR um you use Landmark as a definition within one of your findings that are there and for many years and still as part of the Zorba's um branding the big Z is there have you considered utilizing the big Z in place of that large word Zoras which would get you within compliance of the ordinance correct Larry I don't know if that would get them into compliance they're over the amount of signage already oh I'm sorry with the existing signage that's oh misunderstood that thank you but your thinking is not wrong if they would minimize their other signage they could possibly have some signage over on this side of the building but they would have change all of their signage maybe I don't ncy yeah I just wanted to um address his point as far as the artwork having served on the arts and culture um commission um we have been definitely trying to encourage art art within the the city and I don't remember exactly but if I remember um when the artwork that was approved in the different locations um I think there were limitations as far as not having any advertising which my understanding would be you know the name of the business um is that correct I think it's difficult to come up with a a direct answer just off the cuff because certainly uh there are emblems that would be considered advertising that wouldn't necessarily State the business's name like like Liz mentioned a z would certainly be signage not artwork the artwork though does have the small Z in the right corner it does it it has it on the and on the hat you know but if I mean I like the artwork you know I don't have to totally understand the whole thing but I like that we've added artwork around the community and um I remember that uh I I mean at the time the arts and culture commission was mostly trying to find businesses that would say yes and um I don't remember which part of the city we had to go through to have that approved it wasn't signage right no I I haven't been involved with the Arts commission so I don't know which um Council committee they went through to get their approval right so if this has artwork that didn't have zorbas on it but added art would that not fall into your um sta consideration of would be like the murals that are murals correct okay and so what would have to change with this artwork to have it be a mural and not a sign you're asking a good question but I am not necessarily the person to answer that question fair enough other questions or discussion kind of a problem with it I think it's nice to see the pictures I think it adds like like Nancy said more artwork back into the community I I don't see this as like a blatant advertisement for zorbas even it has a little Z in the on the hat I just I see that colors and art and as far as the sign goes I guess I don't have a problem with with it knowing that we have other places too and I think it It's Tricky than to try to look at this one small much to look at the sign versus like at Central Market you have a much broader it's a box where this is not a box so yeah I think Larry you pointed out too the the variance would not speak to the type of signage just the amount of Total Space of the signage and so correct this particular one we might like this one but maybe what if we don't like the next one but the variance would would still stand correct that is correct and I only bring that up just as a point of consideration right uh when we think about what our response will be to this so also um if they if they want to consider doing art work they should go to the arts and culture commission and get the approval that they got for 41 or those other places where they've done artwork okay okay and so then in their building update um they have added a new tower and another door um to me it seems reasonable to have some kind of an Insignia to designate that that is their business what certainly then they need to do is rearrange the amount of square footage of signage they have and eliminate some of the signage they have in other locations so they could do that so since they already are over the allowed signage they have to work a little harder or would they be allowed to stay within the over signage that they have or would they be required to go back to the strict measurement unless they have a previous variance which I'm not aware of no they would need to bring it into compliance with 184 square feet okay that would be for any change then at that point any change they make the unless we give a variance they would have to go back to the we're getting measurement we're getting into issues now of yeah enforcement of our ordinance and so yeah how that I know that they are over on their ordinance I am probably going to have to send them a letter telling them to be become in compliance with the ordinance Mr chair I'll entertain a motion to accept staff's recommendation to deny the variant as presented based on the following findings of facts and the fact that this is in a lake business Zone that has residential area surrounding it um understanding that it is commercial operation I do not see that it doesn't allow you to use the business with uh the intent that was set forth so I would recommend and adopt the following findings that were presented in the staff report and we have a motion on the table is there a second is there a second is there a second right there's no second so can continue their discussion or make a different motion well I'm in support of them being able to have a zorus sign on the tower um and so I you can be in favor of that and still in favor of the variance no I'm looking at the the findings you know I don't necessarily see that it's not in harmony with um the intent and um I don't I I think their point on it you know it doesn't change the aesthetic environment of the area it's got the sign the zorbit sign is lit up but they have another lit up sign on the side that's not on the building it's a freestanding one and there are variances or ordinances already for what when signs have to go off that it's not really throwing a lot of light onto the residences there's no residence on people's Street and so I I I I don't necessarily see that it's not in harmony I don't agree with that from what they've demonstrated there and that would be my mean thing I also think that it's for them to be able to uh the the uh consistent with the comprehensive plan um I know that you have in there about the screening and buffering I mean to me that's big trees and shrubs and there's no place for that in that particular corner to do that I'm not sure that that's a reasonable request to stay consistent with the um comprehensive plan so I need to make a motion well you don't need to make a motion but somebody needs to make a motion right um I would like to see them go to the arts and culture Commission to discuss your your artwork um I think there is a place for artwork on any business in town that's willing to put artwork on it um yeah I'm not sure that I have a you know so I don't have the measurements of just adding the one sign to you have the measurements for what they're requesting as far as the signage so you're saying that there are circumstances unique to this property that justify granting them a variance signage you're it sounds like what you're saying is a variance but not necessarily this variance correct yeah and just to pipe in here your Not Your Role here is to decide whether or not you believe that this variance should be approved uh if that you think that a different variance might be more palpable right it is uh either the applicant can withdraw or you can deny um um but you cannot change this variance this variance is this variance got it and just to kind of add on what Larry was saying remember when we Grant variances they are a property right they live with the property so if you grant x square footage they get x square footage and we might like what they are proposing today but the building could burn down I'll knock on wood so it doesn't um they could build a new building and they still get this require that square footage and they could put that square footage wherever they want that it's not uh divvy it up where you want to divy it up it's they get the square footage so just keep that in mind while you're thinking about this okay I make a motion to approve the variance as written okay we have a motion to approve the variance as written is there a second is there a second is that not what you did to deny it I'll second that okay so we have a motion and a second all right any so we have a motion and a second on the table to approve this variance um since this is different than the staff recommendation uh what what are what findings would you use to support that motion I think it I R off of what Nancy had said on some of it that I do think it sticks within the aesthetic I don't think it impacts the area in a negative manner with where the signage would be going to where the streets are um are you indicating that you would use the applicant's findings yeah yes I am okay here we are to be adequately cover that Dylan yes thank you so we have a motion in a second to approve the variance as written using the applicants findings any further discussion on this all right all those in favor of the motion to approve signify by saying I I I all Pros same sign I all right MO carries we'll carry this forward to the Community Development Committee on the 7th with a recommendation to approve the variance thank you gentlemen appreciate it all right let me uh find my place again here I switched around documents a bunch in one of these that one all right so we are back to the second public hearing I'm going to go ahead and suspend the Planning Commission meeting and I will now call to order a public hearing to give consideration to amending the zoning ordinance of the city of Detroit Lakes relative to cannabis businesses regarding cultivation and Manufacturing Larry okay the state has passed a law that has made use of recreational Cannabis legal they've also made it legal to cultivate cannabis and manufacture products from Cannabis so the city is required to allow certain types of uses that we may or may not agree with but we are bound by law to do that and so the first step of that is to amend our zoning ordinance with regard to uh cultivation and Manufacturing so the ordinance that you have before you allows cannabis cultivation Outdoors by conditional use in the ra districts in in the city and it's subject to the following six conditions that a minimum lot area of 200 contiguous acres is met growth of cannabis plants be set back 50 feet from all lot lines the sale of cannabis products is not allowed on the property the manufacturing or processing of cannabis plants or cannabis products is not allowed the owner must comply with regulations in chapter 342 of Minnesota statute statutes and the owner must comply with all security fencing lighting and other requirements imposed by the State's Office of canabus Management uh some of those rules have not yet been made yet and so we don't know what those requirements or fencing might be and then the other part is that we're allowing the manufacturing of adult use cannabis products and hemp products and indoor cultivation in the i1 and the I2 District so that's what this ordinance does you may be wondering why we haven't addressed the retail use and our our current ordinance allows retail activities in the B1 B2 and B3 districts and the ordinance that we're preparing to deal with cannabis regulations in the city will limit retail sales of cannabis to the B3 District so we don't need to make any changes to our zoning ordinance with regard to that because that is going to be handled separately great so that's what I have for you thank you Larry all right would anyone like to uh make any comments all right please come up if you wouldn't mind stating your name and address for the record my name is Michael Mund and I have a business at uh 1112 Jackson Avenue and Pelican Rapids um I have been looking at this uh ordinance and the only real thing that is kind of troubling is uh so there's different types of cultivation licenses there's kind of a larger cultivation license um and then there's the micro business license which allows just a very small um amount of cultivation and um so I foresee and from what I've seen um in the reporting that there is um no real fullscale cultivation applicants in this area um only there's two micro business and one meso business which is um the micro business can you can have a cultivation endorsement and and for the meso business it's just retail locations um so uh I actually applied for the cultivation license um in and along with in the micro business license along with the retail um and so some of the it just seems like the industrial area it's a great place yep um and especially for larger cultiv ation but for this the state kind of considers them craft grows they kind of a smaller um kind of cultivation facility um and they can range from just a few you know from a couple hundred square feet and the maximum um for a micro business would be 5,000 square feet um there's very few to be honest there's very few buildings in the B2 that that you could have the combination of retail and cultivation in the same building um which um could be optimal especially for employees that work both places um there's honestly only one uh spot that I've looked at that is considered a B2 that has that kind of space and that's right up there next to the SandBar it's currently Northland welding um they have a big shop and um I've tried to convince him that he might want to rent the whole thing but based on this I wouldn't be able to have the cultivation in the back and then the the actual retail in the front um and the cultivation would have to be at a separate spot um and um so I guess I would say that to consider some you know put a maybe a square footage on another thing I'd like to do would be to um educate people and to have live plants right there you know it's a lot easier to teach people on how to and really i' I've got a hydroponic store and so I've been teaching people how to grow for the last year and there's a lot of people around that are really interested in that side of it and so to be able to further that by you know having live plants that weren't at the cultivation facility someplace that they could actually get a look and oh this is what it's supposed to be and this is how it's supposed to go and use those for classes in the retail store it would be nice too um but uh I guess I would say consider having these micro grads in uh B2 areas and they will absolutely be you know doctrin by the state you know as far as security and all the all those pieces that need to go into a cultivation facility um so there was going to be some big rules anyway um so to limit it to oh you can be in these and this little square here um might not be in the best interest um of the business and you know all the employees and everything too um so I I I would say consider you know maybe putting a 5,000 square foot limit on the B2 area and um so that depending on what the state says that it would be at least a opportunity for those micro businesses to have that where you know the public can actually kind of unnecessarily interact but at least can see it and and know uh what what they're getting where their product is kind of coming from um and I've seen it in a lot of other states a lot of other states will have their retail and then they'll have a big window and they'll show their their growing cultivation facility behind it um which I know when I go in I'm like oh I know they do it this way oh that's you know I expect a better product or whatever so I would I would suggest that you allow a smaller um those micro craft throws in the B2 if applicable if it follows all the other state kind of processes um yeah yeah just because it's not the big grows that you know some people are thinking about you know where it's 10,000 square fet and you're you know got a lot of smell going on and a lot of waste water you know and all this stuff that needs to be accounted for you know uh so I would say yeah consider doing uh letting the craft grows um up to a certain square footage be in the uh in the B2 section okay thank you very much appreciate your comments all right any other comments from anyone any further comments all right hearing none I'm going to close the public hearing and uh I'll bring it back for questions comments and discussion by the commission I have a question Larry um it seems to me a little bit the um C before the horse with the you know whatever is imposed by the office of cannabis is it not prudent to wait and see what all of that is to see how that fits into Detroit lights wait and see is not an option because starting January 1st people are going to be applying for licenses and want to be able to locate so we have to have our ordinances in place before January 1st and I think I'm going to clarify what Larry said to us he said some of the things aren't def oh sorry I don't have a voice some of the things aren't defined in the statute such as do odor management MH but Larry's right the statute does say here's a micro business and the definition of a micro business license and here's a macro and cultivator Growers and things like that would that be correct that is correct but we do have to take action now and be ready and we have to determine which commercial areas we think are right for retail the determination has been made at least for providing the city council with a draft ordinance the city staff has looked at different regulations and has determined that manufacturing and indoor cultivation belong in an industrial district because of issues surrounding that chair may ask Larry a couple of questions John thank you uh Larry I have a couple of questions and I'm just going to give you some reference stocks and the fact that I have land out in California where it's been legal to cultivate and grow since and the licensing in Santa Barbara County since 1920 or since 2022 um some of the things as a cannabis cultivator you've got a an ordinance that says it here but it doesn't say it outdoor specific and you want it to be outdoor specific only you're not talking about indoor cultivation are you in this ordinance we are talking about outdoor outdoor so can we we should we will change that okay so that was my first note on it because we are not addressing the indoor cultivation if here if you have any questions would you come up mind coming up just so that we can make sure we capture all of it thank you I really appreciate it yep I uh so what was I saying uh it says in your regulations to have 200 Acres continuous um and I could see that for an outdoor grow and really when I read it I was like there's no place in DL that you can really have 200 acres in the city anyway um together that I know of um but uh for so I didn't think that that necessarily pertained to the indoor grows uh which it seems like now after going through it that might be the case is where you know the way it's written is that you would need a warehouse on 200 Acres I I don't think I'm reading it that way uh Larry that the intent was that in the ra District we were we were only talking about fields and outdoor growth right we weren't going to allow indoor growth in the ra District but only in the industrial district so can I ask a question Larry because you brought in a discussion is there within our zoning ordinance an area that fits the definition as is written now on our zoning map I have not looked to see if there are any 200 acre plots there possibly are I know that in the past there have been can we ask that to be done because a few years well some years back we bought 390 Acres of RA land that we have converted into an industrial so there have been 200 acre plots in the city may I make a request that we have a z only map that identifies that yes um a couple of more comments that I am going to make only because I have to drive by the area that is currently being cultivated and it does have a pretty good ordinance in Santa Barbara County that says there's fencing there's security there's everything um our ordinance as it's drafted now I really would like to see odor m management as part of a critical piece even though I do know that the Minnesota chapter has not defined what odor management means but I'm pretty sure there's some residential communities that wouldn't want um to consider the amount of odor that's coming or even some of the things that are coming from security fencing and Lighting in that area so you're talking then just about this particular section J with adding another condition relative to odor management or or adding it to j6 including odor management um the next one that I'm going to bring up is volatile solvents in the cultivation outdoor um I'm not an expert at it but I know there are means that need to be done to remove the flower the heads and things in the cultivation process and um I do believe there are some excuse volatile solvents that are involved in some of that farming of that I would say that that's probably more manufacturing um there's some very little would probably be used especially in outdoor um that you wouldn't use in a regular farm and probably less and and more safe usually than regular Farms especially when it's tested and commercial but um I wanted to point out to your smell um uh comment that I'm I'm pretty sure that the state will have a a smell um kind of condition to it but um to uh address that locally might be really beneficial also just because the state is you know there's a lot of B2 that's really close to residential and um you might want to even go a little tighter than they do whether you do it now or make another ordinance later or whatever but it's it seems like yeah no you're you're right and as far as you know outdoor goes I don't think there's going to be any outdoor fields in Detroit Lakes um but I mean in County possibly um but that's something you can do here should we be considering also a senstive sensitive area restriction Larry in this ordinance just to make sure we're guarded you know you know should we say okay it's so many feet from a residential so many feet from a school so many feet from it it actually has that in there you could do that I'm not sure Mr Mund can I can I just ask that you hold your comments I'll give you another opportunity to to comment at the end but I'd really like to to complete the discussion but absolutely I want to hear from you again okay thank you I appreciate it is that possible that we look at that is possible sensitive are restriction and and just so you guys know micro business as he referred to does include a Halfacre outdoor in the licensing component there's an indoor and an outdoor component that's a half acre that's already currently under the Minnesota statute there's 100 micro business licenses that are going to be issued starting January 1 and that includes 5,000 square feet indoor definition or an half an acre outdoor definition so we don't need to address that to put that in this it should be coming down the pipe I'm sorry what do we need to then make any other recommendations of defining between what is indoor what's outdoor and the guidelines between those are is that coming down the pipe from what the state is going to be advising well indoor and outdoor pretty clear definitions without being defined we know what the difference is between indoor and outdoor but I think I think what I heard Jenna say was the micro um the the not the large micro the the fact that the state would license a micro business doesn't mean that we have to allow them to have both of those operations at the same location so we choose to have our manufacturing and cultivation in a different place other than the B3 District we can do that so at this point we're not the city has not addressed what they're going to do with micro um the city has addressed what they're allowing through this zoning ordinance they're talking about where they're going to allow cultivation and Manufacturing and through their other licensing and cannabis ordinance they're defining that retail sales will only be allowed in the B3 District but I don't see where subject to subject to um um some limitations as far as distances from each other distances from daycares and things like that the minimum lot area of 200 continuous Acres would not allow for that Halfacre micro business within City Limits is that an accurate statement not they would not be allowed to do the outdoor cultivation they would have do the indoor cultivation in the i1 OR I2 district with the way we written this ordinance correct okay sorry Jenna did you want to make sure like if we needed to be adding something in in regards to indoor micro business or if that's already covered somewhere else I'm not I think so so let's let's set the retail aside we're not addressing retail whatsoever in this in this today we're talking about the outdoor cultivation and the indoor cultivation and and and Manufacturing as two separate topics really that's the JJ and the KK corre at the bottom correct just don't see in those the zones I it's not it's just refers to that Minnesota statute correct and in that Minnesota statute it it designates which zones those are no we're designating those because these are if you look at it says section 14 subdivision 2 JJ and KK um section 14 is the light industrial section of our ordinance okay yes then the heavy industrial allows all of the uses in the light industrial district Okay so inherits it then so the way that this is written the we allow outdoor cultivation on a large tract of land in an RA Zone that's contiguous meets all these requirements plus anything that we might add from a condition and then we allow indoor cultivation and Manufacturing within the industrial areas based on that section 14 subdivision to JJ and KK okay and then it's to to your question of do we need to address it if there are things that we think we need to address we can recommend adding those okay to as additional conditions uh or changes to the recommended ordinance this is what staff is recommending at this point does that adequately answer your question good okay further discussion or questions so what I've heard on the table so far um we've said we need to add the word outdoor to the subdivision five or the section five Edition is that what you heard as well Larry yes and then um we discussed but did not decide whether or not we need to add odor management solvent restrictions uh in the number six in sensitive area in number six right I got that one too right uh so do we you know and and this can be this we'll have to address this through a motion but we discussed adding an odor management odor management and then solvent restrictions I think you said section six and then we had discussed adding a sensitive areas restriction um did that did I capture all of that correctly yep I would still like to see a z applicable to the Z do you want to see that zoning map before we take action is the question that would be my would like to see happen but I think we're getting pretty tight in our timeline right we are very tight on our timeline right what's our time well this will go to the council at their October meeting and then they would have second reading at their November meeting so that means there's only one council meeting left before January 1st so there isn't a lot of time to deal with that what's your concern about the 200 acre limitation I will get to you promise well let's talk about waste disposal I mean I guess we really don't have to worry about it because our current storm water management doesn't run through our waste facility and for repurpose or reative Reason so we don't have to worry about that but do we have to worry about those kind of things if the plot of land happens to be on our waste management system and in our storm water area do we have to worry about it if it if we don't include for example residential in sensitive areas in the definition not just schools child care those kind of things I mean do we include residential in the sensitive definition without knowing exactly where that plot of land could potentially be well my preference was to leave agriculture in the county where it belongs he said his preference was to leave agriculture in the county where it belongs and then we wouldn't have to try and address all of these issues and concerns but we're here yes we are but we do have ra zones what is what is what we're we're deciding on the ra zones that are still within the city correct okay or to be in the city in the future or to be in the city and that's was my next question with any kind of an annexation in the future right and I believe be an ordinance when we Annex the default is RA unless we decide default is RA unless we specifically choose otherwise right okay all right uh Mr Mund if you'd like to make a brief comment I'll allow it now and just a few things you guys might want to address like um how does a how do a greenhouse sit as far as indoor outdoor um is that indoor does it have walls in a roof um has walls potentially and yes roof yes yes it's indoor okay um and uh so as far as the timeliness of this goes there's they are looking to be awarded in or have their lottery for these businesses before the first hopefully next month is what they're hoping for so to have this you know done in a timely manner I guess would probably be to the benefit um just want to speak to that also and uh yeah no that and again I would say to uh consider having um a you know micro row and and and to comment on your Wastewater all that has been touched on by the state and I'm sure they'll have more regulations um where you don't necessarily need more regulations on top of that I think they'll probably do a pretty good job um and as far as you know like you say solvents the manufacturing is definitely going to have things like that that are you know if you look at you know corn oil you know big corn oil producers in the state they have giant facilities and you know so there's a couple of hemp producers hemp manufacturers around that have pretty good size facilities too and I don't know and I think most of those are not in the city but you might consider looking at manufacturing um as far as you know those solvents and um even noise you know you know uh but to have a half acre greenhouse in the middle of town might be a something you might not want um so I would I would say you know maybe consider putting some rules on that