Good evening everybody. Good evening. >> Thanks for coming out to the library. Um pleased to introduce time administrator Ralph Kaco. He's going to talk about the debt exclusion upcoming on the ballot. Uh this is just anformational session. He's not going to tell you how to vote, how not to vote, how you should vote,
how you shouldn't vote. We're just going to present in the information on what a yes vote means, what a no vote means, and then you get to decide whether you want to vote yes, no, or not vote at all. But hopefully they do vote. That's it. Um, so this is all that is. And without further ado, let's let's welcome
Ralph Paco. This is the best reception I've gotten here in a while. Thank you, Mark. My name's uh Ralph Taco. I'm the town administrator. Uh and um what I'm doing here is presenting an information
informational on the dead exclusion questions. Um as you may or may not know at our annual town election, we're going to have two questions on the ballot uh for the debt exclusion. One of the dead exclusions is for uh the Bristol Bristol
Plymouth and the other one is for Bristol Ay. You may say, well, why why is this on and uh didn't he didn't he uh do this already? And just just for your information, back in November of 2024, these two questions were on were on the
ballot. Um again, it was a long ballot. There was seven questions alto together uh on that ballot. These were these were the last two um at that time. Um both questions 4,851
votes were cast for uh for the two questions respectively. Um the the no vote um prevailed uh only by uh 70 votes for for the BP question and 254 votes uh
for the crystali question. But I think the thing which prompted the selectment to bring this up again for each instant there were 491 blank votes. 491 blank votes and people uh were coming up to the selectman and
saying we didn't quite we didn't quite understand the question. So uh so with that um they uh made the decision to put it on on the ballot. So the big you know the big question is is it a debt exclusion? Is it an
overrust? What is the difference between the two? So um override questions must state the specific purpose and the dollar amount and and and how it could be used. So again an override is for
purpose and it's permanent. where a debt exclusion is used to pay off a a project. So, you know, it's a for a project and it's limited. So, if you think of a debt exclusion, you know, it's like a loan. Very similar to if you
take, you know, you take out a mortgage for the amount of um money, right, that that uh these projects are, we're kind of looking at a 30-year mortgage. So uh you know that may not be limited to some of us you know it may be it may be a
long time just to put it into perspective uh the uh Bristol Bristol Plymouth would that uh that obligation ends in 206 and for uh Bristol AI it's 201.
I apologize. I'll get I'll get this eventually. Okay. So again, what is a debt exclusion? So um a debt exclusion is is a common way for towns to pay off right large capital projects. And then you
know the thing what does everybody always ask? How much is this going to cost me? Right? So I'll tell you right up front if the two questions pass the uh the annual the average the
average homeowner in the town of Dyon will see an increase to their annual taxes of $26324. All right. So right now I want you to think of keep that figure just keep it in your back pocket for now because
we're going to address it in a few in uh some slides moving forward. So what is the debt exclusion for? Again, the that exclusion uh in April is for the construction of the Bristol Ply Technical High School and and for the
Bristol AI costs that are not included in this. All right. It is not for the salaries at Bristol Plymouth and it's not for supplies or electricity at Bristol Agie. What it is for, it is for the projects that were voted on for the
construction of both those schools. and I successfully moved it to the next hour. So, this slide's a little, you know, a little wordy. I'm not going to go over it uh uh too too much, but what it is, it sort of sets the table as to
why uh you know, why the schools decided to to um have new construction. And, you know, in a nutshell, it says, you know, students are moving away from college and they're looking for the trades. So, you know, uh, you know, they don't want
to pay the college expenses. They want to go out there in the trades and make some, you know, make some good money. So, again, uh, Bristol Aggie and Bristol Plymouth sort of took that and ran with it. In 2018, uh, the Bristol County
Advisory Board voted to, uh, to expand and renovate Bristol Aggie. And in March of uh 2022, uh the member counts of the Bristol Pilit School District voted to fund the construction of a of a new school. That estimated cost was originally uh $35
million. The member communities were responsible for $180 million. Um there's something called the MSBA, Massachusetts School Building Authority, which they pitch in some funds. Um but they um they
pitched in some more money and and there was some efficiencies. So that $180 million now the member towns the eight member member towns are responsible for the $135 million. So just a a little more a little more
history with that. Um the uh the the member towns it was put to the vote uh uh put to vote. So majority of the member towns uh again voted to to fund this. The town of Dyton at the time did not but because we're
part of that because we're part of that pool from member towns um we are we're responsible for the for that debt. What I have before you are the two debt exclusion questions that you're going to be seeing on the ballot and something that people find confusing is like when they the question is, you know, this is
prescribed by the state and it's um when you read it and you see proposition 2 and a half. Anytime we look for funding outside of the levy limit, it's proposition it's proposition 2 and a half. So it doesn't a lot of times people make that synonymous with an
override. Again, it's not an override. Um, this it's for um it's for construction purposes. Again, override is for purpose and permanent. And a debt exclusion is for a project
and limited. So, Proposition 2 and a half doesn't necessarily mean override. It just means that we're looking for funding outside of the 2 and 1/2 uh 2 and 1/2 W. Okay. So, what does um what does a no
vote mean? In the uh in the event of a no vote, the town of Dy will continue to find funding within its budget for the Bristol Plymouth and Bristol Aggies debt for uh fiscal year for fiscal year 27 and beyond. Um given the tax levy and
state aid in recent years, the estimated payment for Bristol Plymouth and Bristol Aggie's death will exceed uh our yearly growth. So we unlike the federal government, we have to balance our budget
and and we if we have to and we're obligated to pay um um Bristol Point and Bris uh debt uh debt service. So we to to pay that you know we have to find
money from um from other other sources and by doing that you know we're going to have to have deep cuts in service and in in person just to you know again I know this is a little small but just to point out to
you like when I say you know it it eats up our eats up our yearly growth this fiscal year 27, you know, our our new growth is 836 uh $836,000. This year, our BP and BA debt is
$89,000. So, we only really have an additional $27,000 to apply uh to apply to um uh services and and personnel and and and capital improvements. In fiscal year 28,
you can see that we start going into the negative. So, we really have to dig into our budget to uh to make that uh to make those payments. So, you know, a lot of things like what are those services? What are the services we're talking about? Right? One
of them services that we all take advantage of here in the town of Dy are our sanitation costs. our our sanitation. Okay. But as you could see uh sanitation comes you know comes at a cost in just the year of 26 that total
cost was about 934 943,000. It went up approximately 58,000. This year is going to be 1 million 1,000 and in fiscal year 28 will be 1,41,000.
So when we start looking at, you know, what services do we cut? This is one of the things we're going to be looking at. You know, additionally, you know, these are things, you know, that that go up. We all have health insurance and and as you can see you know we're you know we
provide uh provide group health insurance to our employees but you know like everyone else's health insurance it goes up as you can see from 25 to 26 it went up about $110,000 and also from 26 to 27 it went up
$110,000. Again, you know, that new growth, we use that new new growth for, you know, for things like health insurance, for things like sanitation, for things like uh for things like capital improvements for the T.
This is um um you know, I was talking about um excess levy capacity. So, I'm going to read this. It's a little complicated, but I hopefully the next slide uh makes it a little clearer for you. Uh the excess levy capacity in Massachusetts refers to the difference
between a municipality's levy limit and the actual amount levy allowing communities to potentially raise additional tax revenue without exceeding the legal limits. Dying is nearly at the levy limit in order to meet our BP and
VA debt obligation. If we exceed our limit, the town will need to introduce an override question. And that's where we start talking about an override question where again it it's has a purpose and it's permanent. And the thing with an
override once you put in a number it increases every year at 2 and 12%. Where and it doesn't end where our debt exclusion does does end. Now, this is an illustration. In 2022
and 2023, you know, we taxed at a certain amount. The town could have taxed in, you know, a million more or $800,000 more. As you can see, 2024, that's when we started having our the debt obligation that we had to pay. So,
it dropped down. So, he had that money, you know, where where we didn't tax the people of Don. Well, we had to in 2024 to meet the obligation. 2025, we did a little better. And as you can see, last year, um, you know, we're really at the
living. We're taxing to the maximum amount for the most part. So, we could pay so we can pay the uh that debt obligation. Once we go past the living the the excess levy capacity, then we have to
seriously consider an override. So you know what does a yes vote mean? So fiscal year 27 will remain a challenge but we'll figure out what we could do with the Bris and Brisl I funded as the town we could we could
devote those new uh that new revenue growth to town you know to town services and and to capital needs but you know as I said you know the citizens tax rate will increase to handle their debt
okay so how's obligation determined a lot of it depends on how many students we send uh to each school. So the percentage of students determines the uh the amount we pay we pay every year in our assessment. The fewer the students
the smaller the assessment. So now I went to remember I told you that 26324 put it in your back pocket you can take it out now. And so I'm looking um you know looking at looking at this. So if both debt exclusion questions pass, the
increase to the uh to the uh taxpayer will be $49 per thousand. So the 264 and that's based again I'm sorry that's based on $950,000 uh annual assessment. That's kind of that's on the high end. So um so we
we're kind of using that uh at the high end. This year it's um like I said it's 809 and depending on the amount of students we have. So you know we project the high end so you know what it would be. Again if your if your house is assessed at $350,000 your annual uh bill
um increase would be 17150. And if you know you're fortunate enough your home is 750 your um your annual increase will be 36750. So again you know the average home in in Don is 537 the average increase would be
26324 but you know we pay our taxes quarterly so what's the impact quarterly it would be uh 6581 and the monthly impact would be uh 1967 Again, people always have questions on,
you know, the tax rate. So, I just this is a good illustration of of the tax rate. And as you can see, in 2016, our tax rate was $15.23 per thousand. And then this year, 2026, it's 12:45.
So, just to point out, if we had uh both questions were answered and we had the debt exclusion, so that would be if I could come over here, it would be 1294. So we would be like here. So we still wouldn't even exceed the tax rate we had in 2024.
You know, just um just to let every just let everybody know, we had this town had passed that exclusions before, you know. So, um, in 2017, uh, the town voted for a dead exclusion for the, uh, for the, uh, police
station. That that term ends in fiscal year 2038. In 2014, we had a couple of debt exclusions. One of them was for the Dymer Hobbit Regional High School, the roof, right, for um, $6.7 million. That
ends this year. This fiscal year ends. So, you know, that's the equivalent of about, you know, a reduction of 5 cents per thousand off your off your tax rate. And then, um, there was another, uh, another debt exclusion in 2014, you
know, totaling approximately $4 million, uh, for the elementary school and middle school, and that ends in 2031. So, they do end badly. So we have we have this study solution and people want to know well what's coming what's coming down the pipe. The
things I'm going to these three uh um projects will probably happen will probably happen kind of within next 5 to seven years. But the difference is unlike uh the BP and VA uh debt
exclusions, they were districtwide. This is Dyon specific. So what's going to happen the the usual process is if someone is seeking a debt exclusion or a capital exclusion, it has to go to town
meeting first. at town meeting it has to get a twothirds majority vote and then it's placed on the ballot. So if you know if these get presented and you know goes to town meeting and it doesn't get
a twothird vote the projects don't advance. So, um, so we, so we have that. And then I just want to, you know, as a reminder, election is Saturday, April 11
at the Dyman Elementary School. And then the last day to receive absentee ballots, uh, and vote by mail applications are uh, Monday, April 6. You got to go to town clerk's office. And the last day to vote absentee in person is April night. So that's that's
the presentation and I'm available for any questions. Yes, Jonathan. >> Um, somebody's got to go first. So my my first question I have two questions, Rob. I'll ask both of them to now if I go. >> The first one is going to be for the figure that you mentioned, the aggregate
figure. >> Yes. Um number one as property values grow up grow over the next 30 years and for many of us we know that the value of patent properties has grown significantly in the past 7 to 10 years when we look at
the the figures from the federal government and so forth. So does that does this 20 I think you said 60 >> 200 yeah 26 >> does that hold for 30 years or is that subject to change based on first of all the the value of a home which I assume that that makes a difference but second
of all you talked about the numbers of students so let's suppose the numbers of students that went to these went up by 20%. In the next 10 years could this figure potentially reach 1.2 1.3 per year and how does that affect this? So that's my first question.
>> Yeah. And then the second question is going to be do we have a breakdown of what revenue comes in by resident uh resident ownership versus corporate tax in the town and is there ways to look at increasing the corporate side of this.
Uh we we do have split tax rate so I believe it's 9010. So 90% of our taxes uh that we collect are from our residential 10 is uh 10% comes from from
commercial. The commercial tax rate is uh double of what the what the residential tax rate is. We are so um I ran the um analysis through of what you would pay.
So that 38 cents a well let me put it let me take a step back. Um that is based on on an assessment of $950,000. So that's you know you know as as as uh
BP and BA project out that's you know that's on the high end. Yes. If um if we get more students go, our assessment would go up and it wouldn't necessarily be uh 49 cents 49 cents per thousand. Uh
but when it goes down, it wouldn't be 49 cents per thousand either. It would be it would it would be less. >> Does the corporate tax increase or just or just residential? >> No. The uh every year the assessor set the tax rate and the short answer is uh
if if the residential tax rate goes up but so does the corporate tax rate commercial tax. >> Any other questions? >> How many students go there now? Do you know? >> Yeah. Uh 102
go to Bristol Plymouth and 33 right now Bristol. >> 33 that's And we pay what for Bristol? What if this went through? How so? How much would that be per student? >> So So we have you know I can't do the
math that quickly in my head but it's like so the assessment is right. So it's $200,000. So, $200,000 divide by 33. >> That's 6,000. >> 6,000. Thank you.
>> Around 6,000. >> In comparison, what's the rate to educate kids in? >> Uh, that's so I don't know the that number off the top of my head. So I I
>> per student around between five and six no matter what schools you're going to >> approximately. Yeah. >> Yes. >> Um what happens if more students go to the vocational and fewer go to Donova?
Is there a trade-off between the budgets? >> There is a there is a little bit of a trade-off because we go by percentages for for all all the schools because we're in a school district. It goes by it goes by percentage. So our our assessment would be uh would be less
inner we go more in the other two schools. >> Yes. I noticed one of the slides where um we obviously voted for BP and our town voted down there aggregately it it passed. Is there a vote for the Bristol
Avenue or is that just >> the No, the the county commissioners um so >> that's they decided that that's >> my next question is >> we get out of that >> uh
the short answer is no. Uh to get out of it would take a it's a long drawn out process to to sort of decouple decouple ourselves from either one of those schools. >> All right. So my other question is I I have a child left in school and we we I
mean I know they're doing the best they can with what they have, but I mean I I pay athletic fees and constant fees coming at us. I don't I don't think either of the schools have their children paying like athletic fees or stuff like that. I'm not sure,
but I I'm pretty sure they don't. It doesn't seem like we're on an equal playing field like where we're where Dyon and Rahobath we're we're paying for for things other students are getting that we're not getting in our own schools when eventually we're going to have to we're
going to have to pay for our own schools eventually. It's coming. uh the Dan's gonna grow eventually and um it just doesn't it just doesn't sit well with me having to having to pay for for these schools where
>> so fewer in our town goes there but we have our own schools to take care of and we're >> we're going to get caught behind there we are behind already >> then you have charter schools right there that's another right >> it's just going to be a tough to I
I there's nothing you can about it. You didn't do it. >> Yeah. No, I hear what you're saying. But um you know, so when we entered, you know, we we you know, collectively as a community, we see the value, right? We see the value of vocational schools and agricultural schools. Yeah.
>> And then right so you know we engage you know engage in that in that contract and and and and that's the cost and that's and that's how you know I wanted to um that's why we're here so we could spell it out. >> Yeah. No, I appreciate you coming. It's it's great presentation. It's it's
really hard pill to swallow when you see what we're having to give up and then you know others are are gaining in a sense. >> Yes. >> You mentioned um public safety in the
beginning and talked about other things. So if this doesn't pass both both of these don't pass or even if just one pass would this come up potentially that once this is done now it doesn't come up again unless it's voted it doesn't pass
and it's ordered to bring up again but having said that if it doesn't pass or either it don't pass if you potentially looked at potential cuts to the community in the next two to seven years
3 to 5 Um uh yes. So this year, so this year um if it doesn't pass, we're looking at a reduction of approximately four four positions. And um and if we don't have
it next year, um you know, we we're going to have to start to look at you know, there's a few things we're going to start looking at, right? We're going to look at eliminating more positions. And then the next step is is like the positions um that the public safety
positions right and then we have to you know if it doesn't pass we have to look at at what services you know can we can we can we um pull back on right one of the big services that that the county we give to the town is sanitation
collection and then you know it's not all on you know um it's not all on on on the resident side you know then we're looking um how do we um how do we adjust and I put insurance up so the insurance uh
ratio between between what the town pays and what the and what the employee pays. So, you know, we have a, you know, we have a few things in the hopper that we're looking at. Um, if we don't, you know, if the debt exclusions don't pass,
um, again, um, it if it if the if it does not pass this goal, right, it is highly unlikely that the selecting will bring it up again. But as I said, if we exceed the legging limit at that point,
you know, we, you know, we're going to probably be putting forward an overlay question. So, um, you know, just, you know, something to think about. There's only, you know, only so many things we could, um, we could we could pull back on. And that's why, you know, we have
this here. So, we give you, you know, the information and so you could make your choice. Yes or no. You know, how will it affect me? How does this affect other things, Rob? Oh, no. Then last question for this is so for example, we just had we've had two major snowstorms this year.
>> Obviously, that puts a lot of there's a lot of revenue some from somewhere that has to go out for snow removal way beyond what I'm sure was budgeted. >> How does that affect going forward things like that? >> You know, that's that's a very good question. So, without without excess
levy capacity, all right, let's use this as an example. So, we budget every year for snow removal $50,000, right? And it's just a number we have to put in because um in Massachusetts allows us to deficit spend, which means us allows us
one of those few accounts allows us to go into the negative. So, what when we do go into the negative, we have something, you know, every year we get something called free cash. the money we don't use from the year prior. We you know we put it forward and it's very limited the use of
of free cash. It's usually it is for one time purchases. So if we're not this year we're most likely going to be using our free cash from last year to pay for snow removal. We should be using that
free cash to purchase new snow trucks or we should be using that free cash to do cattle improvements. We should be using that free cash to finish up Main Street. But, you know,-c but because of the situation we're in, you know, we have to
sort of scramble and and move and move money around and then it which limits uh the funds we have to to provide additional services. >> Yes. Branson Lincoln have I it's not a debate but you don't buy new trucks
every year. Okay. So some years you can buy trucks some years you can't. Now you were there when Bill Moore presented some information at the last elections meeting. I haven't heard you address why you just can't do it that way. Well the
issue is the trucks honestly. We don't buy trucks every year. the trucks that we have that that the uh that the DPWs that that move the snow, those are 30 year old trucks. So, there does come a point. >> They were 29 last year. So, >> okay, that's okay.
Yeah, but yeah, we we you know, we we don't buy trucks every year, but there's a point where we have to we have to consider and those are the years you buy them and then years then you don't need to buy them. it. Yeah. >> You didn't address the Bill Moore question.
>> No. Well, Bill, he didn't really bring up a question. So, he made a statement. So, >> he made a statement. Why can't you I'll ask the question. Why can't you present a budget that reflects exactly what Bill Moore said? >> Because the budget we are presenting is
is fiscally prudent and it it goes through standard practices. That's why. >> So, it's like turning a battleship. No. And you can if we could focus on >> just because it's not your idea doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. If
>> we could continue to focus on the dates which I'll be happy to have a conversation with you after. >> I am they Okay. I was on the finance committee. It was 35. >> I I I don't want I don't want to Yeah. I want to answer other questions. So we could you know we talked we talked before. I'd be happy to talk to you
again. Is that okay? >> No. I'd like you to answer now. Why? It used to be a revolving account with the snow and now it's not. >> Okay. I I have to move on to another question. >> Okay. >> And we could we could I'll be happy to
talk to you. >> All right. >> I just have a question. How many people have been added to the payroll since 2023 to the multi payroll? >> Good question. >> Yeah. Um >> very good question. >> Are you talking about new positions
>> since 2023? How many people have been added to the payroll? >> So it be new positions, not filling people. Okay. >> New position. I I I have to look back, but I I I will have to get back to knowledge.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's I'm I'm not I think it's net zero to be honest with you. Maybe one or two if I I have to go back and look. I wasn't prepared for that. >> Might take a trip over the information. I don't but I I
>> Yeah, >> I know they're kind of fat over there positions. >> Yeah, >> 76. >> As I look at related considerations, future capital needs, I see Main Street reconstruction
>> and it was my understanding that that was going to be done in phases paid for by chapter 90 funding. So that's not really a capital need that's paid for by the town. That money
is coming through the state. >> So we do still have >> that's why it's being phased in. >> Yeah. So the you know the project began as you know in 2023 it's been extended out and I know there's been considerations people say when is this
going to finally right when is the final baby? um when we look at uh going through right so when we look at going through the phase process we're looking at 2027 2028 uh for its completion. So
again it's a consideration the uh the delta is about $750,000. So if it was a choice uh by the town to sort of speed up the process you know we could go through uh the a capital institution.
So, you know, I just wanted to, you know, just put out there the uh sure make sure everybody knows, you know, what are the expenses that we're looking at? >> Another question not related to what I said before. >> Sure.
>> Is DR giving us back $750,000? >> Yes. So, with the 700,000 you could save, that's 1.4 million. Do we really need an override? >> So the ship around
>> that is that's a one time, right? So that's one time money. >> Yeah. >> If we're getting if we're getting that old time, the answer would be no, we don't need a dead exclusion, but that's, you know, that's one time money that does not go into fiscal year 28, fiscal year 29. We still have the obligation to
pay uh to both V3 and VA. >> Was that voted on? question that he asked. Was that voted on as far as you you don't you gave money to a school? Yes. >> Was that voted on? >> No, no, no. They returning the money to us. So they they Yeah. No, no problem.
The money was was in excess and when it's excess over a certain amount, they took 5%. Right. They return money back to the they return the monies back to the no problem. Yes.
>> So under this related considerations this these future projects do we have any idea how much these are going to cost the for taxpayers if we do have to get an exclusion on all of these? >> Yes. I mean do um if we're looking at
the fire station, right? Fire station. And again um if I just put a number on that though, but it's going to be close, right? So, renovation, rebuild, you're kind of looking somewhere between 20 and $25 million for police station. If
you're looking at uh Dy Elementary School, you know, schools are about $75 million. That doesn't include that does not include the MSBA uh um what they would what they would
give back, but it's still but it's still a substantial amount. And I just want to again I just want to point out that unlike Bristol Plymouth and Bristol Aggie, right, that decision would be made by the Dyton voter. So again, it's
a two-phase process. It's county meeting and then and then the ballot. If if it doesn't pass, those projects don't move forward. And right, we're not we're not stuck with the, you know, with an
obligation to pay them. I'll follow up on the Dayton Elementary School. I serve on that committee. Our maximum will be $20 million for the town. However, there are three options. One is a new school and that would be
$20 million a share a remodel or just minor upgrades to meet fire and ADA requirements which is a band which really isn't a good idea. >> How much is that?
>> That we haven't run those numbers yet but the people will have a say. Um, everyone would like to have a new school. However, what we can afford, what we need, and what we want are two different things. >> I agree on that.
>> Can't afford it? Don't do it right now. >> Question. >> Yeah. >> So, uh, I think it was around 2020, 2021, I can't remember. the the Dyton water district put a a moratorium on building. It slowed this town down.
Not to a standstill, but it slowed the town down tremendously in growth and they hurt the town, but the lack of water hurt the town and we couldn't supply I'm a commissioner. They couldn't supply enough water to supply the growth
of the town. So, we slowed it down. Eventually, that's going to that's going to end >> and the town will grow and we'll help the tax base, but then obviously you're going to have to build schools and the town's going to grow.
Um, what happens when the town begins to start growing again? you know, once we once we're able to pump water and the town grows and the building pods going, you know, everything's building, what happens to that that uh 49 cents does
say does it remain 49? Yeah. >> No, as I said, >> obviously it depends on how many students go, but >> Yeah. Yeah. >> As we get more taxes in. >> Yeah. >> Obviously, you're not going to build a school right away. Are we able to is the four does that say there still 104 whatever how many students are
going? Is it does that fund stay the same and then the town begins to build head coffers back up >> if right so so right those numbers stay the same and I at the high end it's the debt is the debt structure is a
little funny it's it'll be level for a while and then it'll then then it will drop down right so right now it's kind of low it'll go up it's just the structure the bond structure right so so uh the the 50 cents basically kind of at the highest point of the bond structure
and then it'll go down. So let's say everything stays even right everything stays right even right the first go around won't be won't be the you know won't be the 49 cents it will be less than that and then say within you know five years right the bond is at
its peak and it stays that way for a while and then go down so >> okay yeah I was just I mean this town has going to grow eventually probably to the dismay of many but it is what it is Um I was just wondering how the tax
structure would work. >> Yeah, >> that's this uh one time debt exclusion or whatever you call it. >> It's own it's its own fund basically. >> It is >> if we get more taxes in we we don't we
don't just we can't get rid of this. So, so the debt exclusion it's set aside and that's how well you can I mean it's it's not the best way to do it because
what we're doing to pay you know to pay capital projects within within the levy limit sort of you know takes away from you know from other other other services with the cap. Can it be done? The short answer is yes. Right. Yeah. Uh so this
this is a funding mechanism outside of the prop of proposition 2 and a half. So we have that so we have that uh that dedicated funds to pay to pay our debt obligation. >> Uh one more question. I'm sorry. Go. >> Have we ever paid any of the debt
exclusions out of free cash once we voted on? >> Uh I I I I know I we have. >> We have. >> Yeah. and has um >> I think I think it was just a one time thing as well. So So
yeah, so we have to make that multiple cash to do there's nothing against doing. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> This is the most popular question with with anyone who works in town, but I I work in a town that um the the insurance has gotten out of control and obviously
to no one here's fault, but it is it's >> it's exploded. It's it's out of control and the costs are going on to the employee and the employer. Retiree costs are obviously a huge uh
unfunded liability which no one funds for that. You just have to give them bite the bullet every year when you're paying. where where I work, we we actually the people who are currently working have to pay into that early uh in order to help fund the people who
are already retired. We I mean we did it to to keep our jobs. >> Yeah. >> Essentially to not lose jobs. Is that an option? >> Uh that >> obviously you have to negotiate it. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's again as I said you know we start looking at the right the
cost sharing. I know it's not it's not the question we're talking about, but >> it kind of is when we say like, you know, what do you know if the debt exclusion doesn't pass? >> That's right. Those are the things those are that's one that's one of the considerations we have to look at
>> and you know and it may even if it does you know even even if it does pass at some point we have to start looking at you know at you know at the ratios you're right because um um as I had pointed out you know health insurance went up $110,000
and that was you know you hate to say it but that was a a good number because it was looking at a lot worse than you know we drop our insurance around and we have a, you know, we have a pretty good rate and our insurance we probably went up
less than people who use other the different insurance groups. So >> I'll go >> if the debt exclusion passes >> will that affect Titans
affect So it usually right when you have um you pass a debt exclusion >> bond companies look favorably on that. They look f they don't they they don't
like when you pay um pay within within the ley limit because it's not guaranteed. >> So John >> um question comment. I know that there's a lot of mixed feelings about what I'm about to ask in the room, but having
said this, you talked about the 9010 ratio between uh residential property tax and commercial tax going forward in the future. And I know that there are committees and towns and you know, different components in town that have talked about ways to increase the
revenue side for the commercial component of town. uh whether it's zoning bylaw changes or ways to attract businesses into the the footprints that are already there that are going to use things like that. If the footprint is attracted more, let's say it went to
8020 or 7525 over the next several years, how does that affect our property tax individually going forward? Does it go down potentially? Does it um go go up on a slower basis potentially? Does that
give us more money for free cash? How do I'm looking at other ways to attract revenue in the town? And I see that besides just the the development growth for residential, you can only do so much residentially right now based on, you know, where things are and what's required for for building
water pipes and running a mile down a street that can cost millions of dollars, things like that. But if you're looking at bringing in revenue as well, if we look at the commercial side, what's available to do that? what's how would that affect our taxes? >> So that was a very complicated question
statement. So um so right the more the simple answer is if if things stay flat right and we change the ratio to 80 the 8020 the resident you know
commercial would be paying less residential taxes would be paying more. If we do 8020, right, and split and then we get a big uh we get an influx of say commercial uh
commercial entities that we that we would want. Um depending on how much how much of that we get in, you know, the tax uh the tax burden uh would be spread out amongst more uh more entities and it
would go down for the individual. So I mean not having specific numbers that's that's kind of it in a nutshell. So if it's flat it would go up. If if you know we get you know more businesses in it would go it would go down.
Just to answer I think Sue's question about the debt exclusion. I think the five years I was on the board we paid a debt using the free cash. We paid a debt exclusion for the police station and Lenny I think you won the board. We for two years >> we paid debt exclusion
>> out of free cash. That was one of the first top priorities we did with the free cash. Obviously we bought equipment and stuff like that. But >> so that is a possibility. Now we got to have the free cash to begin with. Right. >> We may not get that as much as we did when I at least when Lenny and I were on the board.
>> Doesn't the department revenue from unusing free cash to pay recurring expense? >> They do. I mean because it's not a one time, right? So it's they want you to spend free cash on right on one time >> capital one time. Yeah. One,
>> they weren't proud of it, but we still did it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We had to use free cash last year to close the gap for operational and and you know, things like that affect your bond rate. >> So we want to try to avoid it as much as we
can. What does our free cash look like now? >> So, um, our free cash going into this annual town meeting, we have about $900,000 in in free cash. If we do not um you know,
if we do not get the the debt exclusion, we're probably looking to use about anywhere from 300 to 500,000 uh dollars of of of that free cash uh towards it, which leaves us of of about, you know, approximately
$400,000 of free cash hopefully to put to some to some uh capital. So, you know, we're kind of looking at at at one at one time. uh a one time uh my recommendation is to one time purposes, you know, to put it into the stabilization fund to put it into OPAD
uh to use it towards uh that um uh that snow deficit, snow and ice deficit. And then, you know, also it's a one time need uh you know, we're going to if we don't get the debt exclusion, we're looking at um um lay layoffs and with
that comes um unemployment insurance. So we would have to pay that for that for that one time. >> Um, what about the money that DI is returning? Is that part of that 900 in free cash or you need
>> No. No. So where So we're uh trying to make a deter determination on on how that gets applied. if it gets applied to this year that $750,000 then that becomes free cash for the following for the following year. You
know, we're kind of if we uh if we can get it apply to um fiscal year 27, that gives us a little relief and a little breathing room. But again, that's that's that's one time. If it goes into free cash, again, we're limited to um into
what we could what we could use it for. I'm and then yeah >> explain to them what how long the uh unemployment would be if someone's late
>> what's the what the termination how many months is that >> uh >> there is a there is a there is a cut off I believe >> yeah I believe it's >> it's within the it's within the one year I don't have a specific number yet >> so what would that be when
>> where We're >> that's a percentage of what the individual >> Yeah. So we're um you know right now we're kind of um you know we haven't worked out what you know with that um with those positions and individuals would be. So right now we're kind of uh
we're we're forecasting $50,000 >> is is and when that happens do you have to pay insurance cover and uh if if there's other expenses with somebody that does that whether it's vacation time or >> so we would yeah we yeah there's
and yeah >> but but it does that does end >> yes yes it does it's not yet so that's why it's only looking at >> short one time right as a one time cost. >> But every individual is different when it comes to
>> and if you if it the calendar year explain that too. If you got used up three vacations. >> Yes. >> And your sick time and so so be it. >> So >> so it does there's a there's a fluctuation there. >> Yeah. Like you know we're trying to look at you know to lay off as few people as
we can. We're looking at attrition. Um there may be some retirements coming up. So we're looking again >> how many employees does Leighton have this >> 32? >> No, I think all together. >> Yeah. >> Uh all together with police, fire. >> Yeah, absolutely. Like I think 67.
That's the number I Yeah, I I've seen if I had a >> Thank you. >> Sure. >> Yeah. >> Do you have a hiring freeze zone right now? >> Do we have a Yeah, we're not hiring new uh we're not hiring new positions. every
>> what if somebody leaves the town? >> Are you going to be placed in that position or because of the situation you're in right now, are you going to hold off replacing it? >> So, it it depends. >> And I and I'll tell you why. So, so case
I'll give you a real life example. So, we have the highway department, right? So, so they're down two people. They down two people and then we put a a freeze on one like you can't we're not going to back fill that position into
but there's only we can't we can't run them too low. So So I understand but you are you are holding off filling that position until after you find out >> and I'm sure there's other departments too that have people that have left. >> Yeah.
>> Good question. No, not you know. Well, we've had like a right a police officer left, but we No, we're you know, we're filling, you know, we're going to fill that position, so we're not adding a new position to it. >> But wouldn't it be wise to hold off filling that position until after we
find out? >> Correct. >> Yeah. But there >> I mean, why hire somebody then you're going to have to lay them off? >> Yeah. Sometimes, sometimes though, what happens um is if they're running short, let's say, and you you put a freeze and
you don't hire, then in order to cover the shifts that they have that are sometimes mandated like police and fire, >> those people those people go into overtime costs. >> Yeah. >> And the overtime is >> that wouldn't happen at the police station because there's plenty of people
to work there. >> I think so. They could be worked around talking about one person. >> I was just giving that and I understand what you're saying. Yeah. Again, >> but the the street department is the same way. There wouldn't be overtime if you're holding that on. I just just quickly something to consider for what
we said and what you said for the number is that keep in mind some of these employees are not full-time and if they're not full-time then the benefit level or what has to be paid for their benefits is zero or reduced. So, and I'm saying that because I don't want people to all of a sudden say, "We have 67
employees. I think they're all full-time." That's not the case. There may be I don't know how many are full-timers, but there is a cut off point and that affects the the town's ability. You know, if you were paying 67 employees full benefits full-time, >> then our our expenses would be
significantly even higher than they are now. I'm saying >> and you are correct, Jonathan, because I think for the dispatchers at the police department, all of them are parttime fulltime. That's not true. >> There may be some I don't know at all, but I'm just saying there are times, but I think it's just important for people not to think that we're paying full
benefits to 67 people. And if we had to do that, and these are all full-timers, our numbers would be through the roof right now. >> Any other questions? >> No. Well, um I have a a few printups up here
and again um I hope this was helpful to give you information on on the day. Um I I do ask whether you vote please go out and vote and make a decision. Don't leave don't leave the
question blank. So vote yes or vote no. Um, but don't, you know, just, you know, don't leave your blank. If you have any other questions, um, you know, I could you could always reach me at town hall and I'll be happy to sit down and talk to you.