Having joy in your workplace is so important because the students see the adults having fun and having joy and they feel permission to be in a joyful place in school. In the business world, company leaders set standards through mission and vision
statements and by listing their values. In the education world, it's all about setting examples and teaching what are called norms. Here are Douglas County School District's norms for culture and climate. Presume positive intent. Exude
and expect optimism. Address concerns the right way. Create a culture of safe mistakes. And communicate kindly and respectfully. These five norms are the topic for this episode, our season finale. As the school year comes to a
close, we're bookending this season by welcoming back our very first guest, Superintendent Aaron Kaine. And this time, we've got two more guests to make a great conversation about the district's culture and climate norms. Alicia Elmore is the director of our
before and after school enterprise or base program, and Dion Killingsworth is director of human resources. I'm your host, communication director Jason Hackett, and this episode compliments episode 20 with the brilliant Jolie Jones, who talked about organizational
development. While Superintendent Kane gives us the 30,000 ft perspective of the ideals behind the norms, Alicia and Dion talk about how those are applied and lived at the department level and even personto person. So, how do these norms work in practice? Where do they
come from? Why these five norms? Well, that's what you'll find out when you keep listening to our expert panel. All right, thank you all for joining us. Um, let's just get started with some quick introductions. I'll ask each of you to identify your name and position
just so everybody can identify and and put names with voices as we go through the process. So, let's start going left to right here as we're sitting for >> sure. Thank you, sir. My name is Dion Killings. and director of human resources. >> And I am Aaron Kaine. Um I have the
great privilege of being the superintendent here in Douglas County School District. >> I'm Alicia Elmore. I'm the director of the base department, which is um before and after enterprise. >> Excellent. Thank you all. That that went a lot smoother than I was anticipating because I was like, okay, how do we
summarize what everybody does here? Especially with Superintendent Kaine. So, thank you especially for making the time to be with us cuz I know you're incredibly busy. All of us are busy, but but the three of you especially, thank you all for taking the time. >> Thank you for having us. >> Yes. So, we're going to talk a little
bit about the culture and climate norms in Douglas County School District. And first, I just wanted to ask Superintendent Kaine cuz I started after you had implemented these. Can you give us some background on on the the necessity for starting these up and
where did this all come from? >> Sure. Um, well, I have always been really passionate about climate and culture in the workplace. Um, I'm a strong believer that if you take care of the people who take care of our kids, our children thrive. And even in my previous roles, whether it was um,
running my charter school system or being interim superintendent in this school district before, climate and culture has always been a very, very big priority for me. And having climate and culture norms that are really specific, I think, is incredibly important. Every
organization puts posters up about respect and responsibility and integrity and all of these kind of big sweeping concepts, but very rarely do we put it down to kind of a number of rules that if you just follow these rules, it will
make a massive difference. And so what we did in Douglas County is we took um some of the great things that I value around climate and culture and we kind of narrowed it down into five different climate and culture norms and we ask everyone in our district to follow those
norms. But more most importantly for me I think it's important that our leaders starting with myself model those norms in everything that we do. Um and I'd be happy to talk about the norms if you would like. >> Yeah, please do. >> Yeah, you bet. Um, so we narrowed it down to five norms that are again very
specific and digestible. Number one is the presumption of positive intent. I think we always have to stop what we're doing, pause for a moment, and think about the other person's motivation and know that they are coming from a place of positive intent. always, especially
in today's polarized society, everyone in our sphere, whether it's teachers or staff or parents, everyone wants what's best for children. And if we start at that common goal of what's best for children, and we know that's what everyone wants, we can almost always
find a solution, but we have to start with presuming positive intent of the other person. The second one that's really important to me personally is the idea of exuding and expecting optimism. Optimism is incredibly important and in fact there's been a lot of research
lately on the impact of hope and optimism on the human brain and on children in particular, more powerful than happiness or any other emotion. Optimism is incredibly important. Knowing that we have this bright future in front of us helps us really think
about the steps that we need to take in order to get there. I've always said for years that as a leader, I want to surround myself with people who can tell me a thousand ways something can be done instead of a thousand reasons why it can't be done. Those are two very
different mindsets. And in our district, a mindset of optimism and hope is incredibly important. if for no other reason, our children are watching and we want our children to have that mindset. The third one speaks to addressing concerns the right way and that one
again is very very specific. Any of us in our professional environment, we would never want our client to go to our boss without having talked to us with a concern. That feels terrible for anyone. And of course, the same is true in
education. So, we make a promise to all of our teachers, our principles, all the way down that if someone approaches us with a concern, we are always going to send that concern back to the individual involved. So, they are given an
opportunity to address that concern before it goes over their head. Nobody in an in a culture and environment wants to feel like there are decisions and and questions and concerns about them over their heads that they don't already know
about. It's a really really important one. So I've made the commitment anytime I get an email complaining about anything, I always I'm kind, I'm respectful, and I'm always sure to send them back to the teacher or the principal. I'm not calling anyone and
asking for explanations. I'm not doing any of those things. I'm just sending it back to let it be resolved at the place where it should be resolved. And interestingly, 90% of the time, 99% of the time, it never comes back to me because they do get it resolved. The
fourth norm is creating a culture of safe mistakes. It's really important for people to feel like they can make a mistake. If you have a culture built on blame or fear, what happens is people always look for someone else to blame
when they screw up or they hide or they cover stuff up. None of those things are good for a culture. And if your teachers aren't willing to take risks for kids, your district is doomed to mediocrity. And you know what? Mediocrity is not
good enough for our children. Um, so we have to create an environment where our teachers feel like it's okay if they make a mistake, but they can take a risk for children. And it also makes it such a much better place to work when people don't feel like every little thing they do is going to be pointed out and put in
their file and all of those things. And the example that I would give on this one is years ago when I was a school principal, I had a young teacher, first grade, um she had a team of three other teachers and a mom emailed her that day and it was about the 10th time that mom
had emailed that week. She was really frustrated. She forwarded the email to the rest of her team and she told the rest of her team something along the lines of, you know, can you believe this mom is questioning me again? She's unbelievable. Whatever. Something not very kind. Of course, she didn't forward
it. She hit reply and any of us could do that or probably have done that at any time. So, she comes down to my office. She's trying to hand me her badge. She's crying. She's telling me I have to fire her. And I'm like, "Okay, sit down and tell me what happened. Nobody's getting
fired." Um, and what I did is I put her in my chair and I had her pick up my phone and call the mom. and I stood right next to her with my hand on her shoulder supporting her while she called the mom and told her what happened before the mom saw the email. And the next thing I know, the mom is crying,
the teacher's crying, and the mom's like, "I email you too much." The teacher's like, "I'm so sorry." And in any case, everybody's now best friends, which is best for that child. And the teacher left my office feeling supported. She was able to own and fix her mistake. And not for a moment did
she feel like I was going to hold it again, you know, use it against her or put it in her file or whatever it might be. We have to have room for human error. Certainly, if we're going to be looking for every single mistake, you will find plenty of mine, I am sure. So,
that's really important for that for that comfort to go kind of all the way down throughout the system. And then the last one is about communicating kindly and respectfully. So much of the conflict that we have, interpersonal conflict, is about
communication. We all know that. But to have a really specific way to handle it makes a really big difference. Um, for me, it's about bun burger bun. Say something nice, then say what you have to say, and end with something nice. And if you think about the perspective of a
parent or a teacher and you have an incident in a classroom, say where uh one child kicks another child under the table or something and the teacher emails the parent and all the teacher says is Johnny kicked Sally today. You know, I've talked to him. You need to
talk to him, too. First thing mom is going to do is go on the defensive. You're calling me a bad parent. You know, whatever it might be. had the teacher started with, "Johnny is a really funny kid and I love having him in my class. I do want to let you know this happened today. I've already talked
to him. I'm hoping you can too and I'm really looking forward to seeing him tomorrow." Something just nice. Now, the parent is going to go talk to Johnny instead of going right on the defensive. So, those are those are our those are our climate and culture norms, those five norms. And if people follow those
really, it's it's hard to wreck relationships. Like it's a really great way to have positive relationships with your colleagues. It's really great when our leaders follow those climate and culture norms, which they very much do because it makes their employees feel valued and not feel afraid. And those
things are incredibly important. >> Absolutely. Because one, I just want to say how much I appreciate working in a system like this, especially coming from the first half of my career in newsrooms where you could take every one of those five and do the absolute inverse of
those. And that's what your climate and culture is. >> Yeah. >> In those type of environments. And the second piece is it's it's modeling for our students. >> Absolutely. >> To help them. We're not just teaching them the reading, writing, and arithmetic and science and all the other
pieces of what's in a textbook or in a course description. It's about how to operate in this world. And if the people who are working in this organization can do that, they can do that too. >> Absolutely. And the same goes for
children, right? We again we have posters all over that talk about big concepts but to have something very specific in the case of young children something like a list of five manners that if they can just do those five things um it's incredibly helpful but to
have that specificity makes it habit. >> Absolutely. Can you talk a little bit more about and then we'll bring in our our other two guests. I want to, you know, kind of set the table first of all, but what goes on to help continue the implementation of these culture and
climate norms so that everybody's aware of them. Like you said at the beginning, it's one thing to just post them on a wall. It's another thing to live them. What kinds of steps does a district do to help us all live it? >> Well, we do have them posted on the wall. That's a good start. Um, they are in all of our schools. Um, they're also
in all of our presentations when we're doing a presentation for a big swath of staff. It's always part of our presentations. Um, so they always just come up naturally and modeling them. But most importantly, it comes from leaders. That's where it always has to come from.
And it starts with me. My cabinet cabinet and I talk about these climate and culture norms. We talk about challenges we're having framed by the climate and culture norms. They have those same conversations with their leaders who have the same conversations
with their leaders all the way down. And anytime I have the opportunity to speak to our entire staff, which is a couple of times a year when I really can talk to literally everyone, I talk about the climate and culture norms and just a gentle reminder that, you know, this is
how we take care of each other. This is how we role model for our students and this is how we bring joy to the workplace. Having joy in your workplace is so important because again the students see the adults having fun and having joy and they feel permission to
be in a joyful place in school. Um, when I first started as a interim superintendent many years ago, I came from a much smaller system and I had climate and culture norms very similar to these in that system and I had an amazing climate and culture. And I
remember feeling like, yeah, well, that's great that I could do that with, you know, hundreds of employees, but what do you do when you have thousands of employees and how can that really permeate from the top all the way down? And it's amazing. It does. If you're consistent and your leaders are
consistent, then you just you just let the rest happen because it goes from leader to leader all the way throughout our system. Um it's it was an amazing transformation to watch. Um when I came back in 2022 and I think that's a little bit what our guests will talk about.
>> Yeah. So perfect segue. Thank you very much. Um, uh, Dion, let's ask you a little bit about you and I actually this whole episode came about because we caught up caught up with each other in the hallway and we were talking about this specific uh, idea for a podcast
episode because of something you've lived and experienced. I'll just let you have the floor and and explain kind of where you were coming from on this and kind of showing what this is like where the rubber meets the road. >> Absolutely. And you know the one I love about the these climate and co culture
norms are they're simplistic but they're not you know what I mean they're easy to understand but they're also have a lot of depth depending on how you want to implement it. So when we talk to individuals, each of them has their own understanding of what it means, but it is pretty common and it's common for
people as they talk, right? And so the reason we're we're really focusing on this even more now is we've been working on these since 2023 and we've done a lot of different things with them. We've integrated them completely into the workday evaluations for classified,
protek, administration, non-based, school-based. And if you if you look at those evaluations, this is the key component of it to bring in those those aspects and it gave the managers a tool conversation tool as well as an evaluation tool that supports the this
model. And you know, I've been in human resources and education for 25 years and I've not had something as easy to implement because it's easy to understand, right? And so that's why I really appreciate these this climate and culture norm and that's why it's been so
successful is because everybody wants this. Everybody sees this and they want this kind of climate and culture. So it's great to to to work through it. It's great to use it as a deescalation tool. Um when we deal in human resources, we deal with a lot of
emotions, right? And it's good to have a tool to talk about the emotions and to give people pathways to deal with those emotions. That's what these do. It gives people the empowerment to say, "I need to address this the right way. I need to go to the person that I have a concern
with." And this empowers them to do that. And that's what a lot of people need is they need that empowerment to know that it's okay. It's okay to talk to somebody about a concern that they have with them. Uh so that's kind of how it came about. and we've been working on it for for years and it's just every
year we just take an additional step and this final year uh this current year excuse me uh we're even looking at more of integrating more training um we have three different departments that are working on it through climate and culture we have professional and development that's working on it human
resources and then Jolie through her title which is a long title uh but her work that she's doing with the district is also integrating it as Yeah, that ties in a little bit with a previous episode we did with Jolie kind of talking about some of this. So, I feel like this is almost building on some of
that too. So, Alicia, then how did this come into your world? >> Well, it came into my world to start with because I was a part with Dion in developing the evaluations and it just really spoke to me a lot. Um, as we've
already discussed, they are simple but deep and important. So I integrated them with our base feeder meetings to start with asking people we sent them the sent them copies of this and said when we're together we're going to talk about what does this mean to you? What do you
personally do now to support these climate and culture norms? What could you be doing that you're not doing now? And finally your biggest points of pride. And what was interesting is everybody had they had time to think about it. They had really great answers. One group even took it um down the road
of children as opposed to adults, which I absolutely loved. So, in particularly, I think they were working with their kids on communicating kindly and respectfully and addressing concerns the right way, but it has really been a conversation opener for us. Not only do we talk about it before all of our
meetings that we have with our teams, I'm in business services and so my supervisor Janice Lner who's our CFO asked me to present these and break them down for our staff all of business services. So I did that in different ways as well. So it's just been
particularly important. We actually named call things out. Um was in a meeting recently where I said, "hm, let's remember we've got to communicate kindly and respectfully. That means honoring the people who aren't here, that sort of thing." And it gives you
the language that everybody knows. And um I think people like it when it's positive. >> That's interesting to hear the perspective of starting conversations with this. that one that shows how well it's permeated the the system. Two, it
shows that leadership and people running meetings are very much understanding and and implementing it. And three, it just sets the tone like what you said, Dion, it it helps to kind of start the deescalation right from the start that
it's like, okay, let's presume positive intent. Let's be optimistic. And it just it flips that flips the script, I guess, is is a way to looking at it that it gets people in the right kind of mindset to talk and not have their their guard
up, their shields up or whatever, you know, to be ready to have a conflict. No, let's let's work through this like adults and then as we carry this out, we're going to be able to show kids how to do this, too. That's Yeah,
>> that's the the brilliance of all of this. I I love it. >> It's more like problemolving than it is being defensive. And that makes it when you're in problem solving mode, suddenly you can really you can get somewhere, >> right? Yeah. And getting people to,
I guess, take a step back. Does it does it work as literally taking a step back if somebody comes up kind of just, you know, with their their back arched and ready to go, they come in and how does that work for anybody that's that's had to deal with that? A lot of times when
when people call HR, they they talk to their managers, there's a lot of emotion involved. And so when I work with my managers, my principles, uh my supervisors, we talk a lot about supporting individuals where they're at. They have emotion. You have you have to let them have those emotions to begin
with and get through those in and I'm talking about an individual basis. I'm not talking about in a public meeting. And and giving them that time and then talking to them about support and how we're there to support them and here's the tool to support you. here's the things that you can use to get through
with what you need and let's pick one that really would work for you that resonates for you and then we talk about what that means to them and talk about how they can implement that piece. Uh so really on a one-on-one basis it works really well cuz it has somebody walking away feeling like they have something
they can work with, something they can have an action or a pathway for it in the small group. in the larger groups. We just had an opportunity at the beginning of the year to talk with all of our security officers through the entire district. Uh my coordinator Holly and I haven't had a time to do it and we
went over climate and culture norms and we were able to even it was 200 plus group talk about at your tables talk about what this means to you. Tell us a time when you wish somebody would have presumed positive intent that they didn't and what was the outcome of that. So when we did our think pair share at
the tables and all that they they talked and talked and we couldn't even get them back you know to and as a presenter you're like that's great right so in a large group it helps because then what we told our managers our our area managers for for security is now you
need to take the next step we introduced it but if you don't utilize this tool it's for not if it's not posted in your office if it's not starting your conversations with your teams if it's not visiting the school and saying how are you implementing it, it's not going to go anywhere. So, that's something
that has been very important to us as we train people is that say this is not just a one-time discussion. This is constant discussion and people constantly have to have this in front of them whenever they're dealing with anything. So, it it's actually been very successful and I've really enjoyed
really enjoyed presenting it and we're going to continue to present it to staff. We utilize it for departments that are struggling. they if they call us and they're just struggling with something, we say, "Okay, let's go talk about this. Let's talk about where we're at, where we want to be, and how we're
going to get there." These climate and culture norms is how we're going to get there. >> For me, I think I I do a lot of talks across the country about polarization and and you know, bringing a divided community together and and really the concepts are the same. But when you have people in conflict, one of the first
questions I always ask, you know, the individual who's upset or whatever it might be is I'll say, "So, thinking about positive intent, think about positive intent for a moment. Tell me what you think the other person's perspective is." Presuming positive intent, what do you think they're trying
to accomplish? What do you think their perspective is? It helps them deescalate and really think once you take the well she's a terrible person part out of it and you get into well I think she's probably trying to this this and this
and then you start to kind of take that take that temperature down and again get into true problem-solving mode. What do you think the other person is frustrated about? Again presuming positive intent. So let's toss out the idea that they're just a terrible person and they hate
you. let's put that over here and just really talk about what you think they're trying to accomplish or whatever that you think their intent is. And it just makes a really big difference. And uh when I do my talks, I'll often go through, you know, very specific
examples regarding very sticky issues like I will just go there. You know, you want to talk about book banning, let's go there. You want to talk about uh weapons in schools or not, let's have that discussion. And you kind of start with what do you think the intent of these people is? What do you think the
intent over here is? Almost always it turns out the intent is the same. We want kids to be safe and you just go from there. >> That's an interesting piece too because bringing people together that have in our society it it it's so much easier to stay polarized
>> and not listen to the other side and not really even have an understanding of how they exist and and what they're thinking. >> Absolutely. And one of my favorite quotes um is from Arthur Brooks at Harvard and the quote is true moral
courage is defending the side you don't agree with to the side you agree with. And I think that is our role as a leader is always it's not to remain neutral. So many people think it's to remain neutral. It's not. It's to defend the intent of the other party all the time
>> to the other party. Right. And if you can do that then you can start to find that common ground. And that's the key, right? That common ground piece that I feel like >> for a lot of different reasons, our society has gone away from that. And and there's there's financial interests and
all kinds of reasons for people to stay in their own bubbles. And you hear stories even back from the 80s. When I was growing up, you heard stories about, you know, Tip O'Neal and Ronald Reagan would get together and they would find common ground on things. And we've
gotten away from that. So, um being able to encourage kids at the youngest age, not on a politics side of things, but just on a if you have a disagreement, how can you understand where the other person's coming from?
>> That's exactly right. >> And Alicia, where where you are overseeing, especially the before and after school programs where a lot of it is kids playing together, right? And there's going to be some kid conflict there. So, you've got to have some good conflict
deescalators. >> You bet. You're right. I mean, there anytime you've got children, there is the potential for that. And we have different ages, you know, 5 through age 13. So, there's conflict potential there, too. So for our staff to have a
grasp about this and then to to be able to translate that and how kids are handling things with each other. The idea of you know is is that how you want to be talked to when we're with kids and what we want them to look at is is that really what you thought Johnny meant? Is
that really what you thought Susie meant? Well Susie you tell us what you meant. Johnny you tell us. And then sometimes you have to with children you do have to get a little you have to coach them a little bit more sometimes than with adults um just so that they they get it because they may be firm in
their no I'm sure that's what she meant. These are communication norms as much as their climate culture norms. >> Yeah. And so here's a question. It's going to sound almost sarcastic at first, but really, how much difference
from your all of your perspectives as leaders, how much difference really is there between the kids, Johnny and Sally or Johnny and Susie, and adults that are working together? How much difference is there? The conflicts are different and often much higher stakes with adults,
but the behaviors in terms of digging in and you know believing the other person meant harm to you. Um I think some of those are very similar. >> Sure. Superintendent Kane, one other question I had about the norms going back to the beginning. How did you
choose those five? because I mean there's a million different things you could try to choose and figure out ways they all integrate and work together. How did that come about? >> I you know long ago I used to give a presentation on climate and culture norms and I had I don't know 10 12 a
good number um and it was how I kind of established climate and culture in my smaller organization. When I started as the permanent superintendent in 2022, we kind of started out that way and then my cabinet just sat down and we said, "All right, we've got to land the plane here
and narrow it down to something that's really easily digestible." And so we just really talked about the most important ones or how we can kind of combine some under a single umbrella. And these are the five that we picked. And again, it was amazing to me how
quickly they permeated throughout our entire system. And and there's something to be said about scaling it down because who can remember 10 of them necessarily? >> Absolutely. And and yes, brevity is always a good idea. >> As we look at the uh graphic, which I'll link in the show notes so people can
take a look at it. And the number one that you mentioned at the top of the graphic is presume positive intent. Is that one at the top? And is it number one specifically for a reason? Was that a strategic choice? >> Yeah, I think it's the baseline for everything else, right? It's the it's
the foundation um for all of the other climate and culture norms. If you can't start with that, I I don't even know where we start. Positive intent is so important and it's something that's really understated. We don't talk about it enough, right, as a society. And again, you know, when you think about
your classic respect, responsibility, all of those things. Never do we address how we're presuming the other person, what their intent is. And I think that's you have to start somewhere. And that's where we started. >> So, as you think about that, Dion and
Alicia especially, when you go into meetings with staff members, do you start with that and do you have kind of a go-to that you that you move on to next or is there is there a sort of a hierarchy or a way you use those or is it kind of situational?
>> Well, I think it's situational. It does depend exactly what's gone on um and where you're going to take it. I think the conversation will lead you to one of these inevitably that stands up more than the other. Um whether that might be
addressing concerns the right way, then you'll go down that road. Um it's not that in some ways, I mean, these all inter overlap because they all relate to each other, but I think when dealing with specific situations, the conversation often takes you where you need to be.
>> How about you, Dan? And when we work with managers and and talk about this program and how to continue with the discussion, we give them options and talk about okay, what's best for your team, what do you guys want to really focus on? Then we talk about when you have your meetings, pick one and just talk about that one for that day. What
does that mean to you? Did you see anybody presuming positive intent? Do you have any positive examples of how this works out? We try to stay away from the negative examples in a lot of ways, but there's times when you need that to really show that turn the negative into positive. So when we talk to managers, yeah, just pick one and talk about that
day or if sometimes you can just say, "Hey guys, did anybody have anything they want to share positive about the climate and culture norms from this week? Did anything occur?" So that they have that discussion. And it's funny in working with with staff for as long as they have with these, you're always
going to know what staff member when you're talking about which one they want to focus on just by their concern and how they approach things. each person because I give them a a choice, you know, which which would be the best tool for you in this and 90% of the time they pick out communicate kindly and respectfully because they're calling
human resources with a with an issue, right? Um, so that's the one they they they get the most I get the most of, but then we try to integrate that into the others as well as we talk to them about it. So, yeah, that is important. And if the if the individual is presuming positive intent, then do you think it
would have been a better communication model? Absolutely. Okay. Hey, do you see how they're intertwined and and why you need one to go along with the other and it's not an isolation discussion or an isolation of each. It's integrating them all. Um,
yeah, there's so many things I want to go off of that. I feel like we could actually turn this into a series almost with all five of them, but there's there's so much I want to ask about this. Um, but I want to respect everybody's time and we've been at this for 35 minutes already. Going off of
what you said, Dion, um, do any of you have any more examples of of somebody who came in and you started talking about this and and you saw like kind of the light bulb go on almost from the education standpoint. We're always talking about light bulbs going on, right? Some light bulbs for staff
members or people that were in conflict and you were able to just kind of pull them back and say, "Hold on, let's let's go back to these our culture and climate norms and think about this. Do you have some other good examples?" But I I love hearing these examples, >> you know, and and I've met with a lot of people on this and we I have a specific
example of communicating kindly and respectfully. I had an individual that was so upset and contacted me because they felt that somebody was being disrespectful to them, which I'm glad why that respect and disrespect is not in these because that is such a myriad and and becomes a quagmire of what do
you mean by respect? That's why I love these and and and I'm glad that respect isn't it's it's a part of it, but it's not one of the words. But the individual was so upset because they received an email from a colleague and they just they were they felt that it was disrespectful to them. And so when I talked about that and they were very up
in arms, they they wanted me to come and just meet with this person and just really I don't want to say blow it up but kind of blow it up. And so when we talked about it and we talked about what the intent was, what do you think the reason why this individual sent this email? Well, the individual was upset
because I did X, Y, and Z. I said, I can see that. So why do you think what what do you think would be the best step on this? What would be the next step that you could take in looking at these and the she chose communicate kindly and respectfully and she she drafted an email back that was kind and respectful
but also held that other individual accountable for what they said and we wrote it together. We talked about it together. She sent it to the individual. That individual actually came down to her classroom that day, apologized and they had a great conversation and she shared it with me later. And so she was
very thankful to have that tool and to really not blow it up but think about it and develop a plan and then execute that p plan using using the norms. >> You know that just makes me think of it not necessarily a specific example but
when thinking about email you know when I talk more extensively um about these norms there's a number of things involved. One is when you're upset with an email, don't email them back. Pick up the phone because emailing someone back
and doing the point by point is not productive. And I always tell people if you are writing an email and you start with words like with all due respect, that is not an email. Um that is a phone call. And that's when you just pick up the phone and talk to them. because we
forget often about the power of in-person communication, whether it's face to face or even just on the phone. Um, the other thing I talk a lot about with email, you know, we all know when communicating that it's always better to praise in public and criticize in
private, but it's funny how when it comes to email, we completely ignore that. So, the other thing I always tell people is don't reply all pretty much ever. There's no re unless you're saying great job. There is no reason to hit reply all because when you hit reply all
to even if you're just asking the original sender a question, that sender is going to feel like you've called them out in front of 20 other people. If you have a question for the sender or correction or whatever it is, just email the sender. And if they think that it's
something, you know, everyone needs to know, they can do that in their own words um without feeling called out publicly. Those are really important aspects of communicating the right way. As Dion said, they're simple, but there's also a lot of depth there. You
know, we could talk about any one of them for hours. Don't even get me started on right fighting because that's a whole other thing. Um, but you know, just making sure that you know when to stop. Um, as soon as you're going point by point or you're doing with all due
respect, that's that's when you're stop. You're done. That's something that's interesting, too, because there's times when I feel like I sort of have to hit reply all so that everybody's informed or or or part of in the loop or something like that. But you're right, there's so many times when you're really
just addressing one person. >> That's right. >> And and there's no reason for the other people to continue to be part of that conversation necessarily. >> And think about how you felt when you're the one who sent out, you know, an original email and someone replies all and said you got the wrong date on, you
know, 10 bullets down. I mean, you're embarrassed. Whereas, if they just email you, then you can quickly reply back to everybody and say, "Oops, I got the wrong date. Here it is." But it gives you the opportunity to own it instead of feeling like someone else is calling you out. It's a subtle thing, but it's but
it's also a really big thing. Also to your point about email and the number one presume positive intent that's almost extra hard when it comes to email because you don't understand tone >> because all kinds of vocal inflection would be imposed if you were speaking in
person or on the phone but in email you don't know what that tone is. >> That's absolutely right. That's why you have to overdo it, right? You have to use a bun burger bun kind of strategy which you wouldn't necessarily do in person but you have to just really overdo it because if you don't it could
be easily misinterpreted and then things go south very quickly. >> Exactly. Exactly. Thinking about a a culture of safe mistakes. I think about I read Steve Jobs's Walter Isacson's biography of Steve Jobs a couple years ago and to hear how Steve Jobs led his
led Apple back in the day and he would just scream and yell at people. He was a visionary, just a genius when it came to marketing and understanding audiences and products and all that kind of stuff, but he was a tyrant with his own staff. And so presuming positive intent and
creating a culture of safe mistakes, especially was was a rough one to read about the difference between that and working in an educational setting. Alicia, can you talk about the safe mistakes idea? That one resonates a lot with me because I like many people, I
make mistakes all the time. And it's not uncommon to make a mistake in front of um a group of people. And for myself, the way I usually handle it is laugh it off. I I don't want to be too self-deprecating, but on the other hand, yeah, this is me. I'm going to make a
mistake, and my my expectation is that you will too. So that means that this is a place where you can make safe mistakes because I sure am going to and my leaders don't judge me on that thankfully. So why would I judge you on that as well? So I think that's that's
huge and I think it allows people to stretch and feel like okay I can speak up. I can say what I something that matters to me. I can try something different because if it if it's not quite right it's going to be okay. >> I love that so much. You know, one one
of my strategies around safe mistakes is I will often tell a story about how I made a significant mistake. And I I do and I I do it because it it makes people smile, but I also do it because I'm setting an example of it's okay. It's
okay to make mistakes. It's okay to be embarrassed. It's okay to laugh about it. And I think it really humanizes us. And that's what our leaders, my leaders need to see for me in order to feel comfortable doing that um with their
teams and again on down the line. I think as leaders so many times we fall into a trap where we think because I'm the leader, everyone expects me to have all the answers all the time and to know everything. And the truth is we don't.
Of course we don't because we're human. Um, and I think it's really important to demonstrate that because it takes a lot of pressure off of the people underneath you because they feel like, okay, it's all right that I don't have all of the answers. Um, I remember joking with a cabinet member recently about imposttor
syndrome. And if we're all being incredibly honest, who among us doesn't actually have imposttor syndrome where once in a while we're like, I don't know why people do things when I point in a direction. It's crazy. Um, but you know,
we all have some version of imposttor syndrome and it's really good to acknowledge that about yourself because it makes people feel like they can say the things out loud that they're telling themselves in their head and somehow it makes it so much better when you can.
Mhm. >> We have a base leadership academy um and it's for our new program managers and assistant managers and I frequently tell them stories of mistakes I made in program when I was in program because it
happens and so I share with them stories that I don't necessarily share all the time out in the world but I want them to understand that I don't expect perfection. Nobody expects perfection and and it this is hard work that you do and sometimes when
you're doing hard work you make mistakes. 100%. >> Yep. Absolutely. Thank you all three of you for your time, for your insight, for your leadership, for understanding these culture and climate norms and helping to help the rest of us understand them and
helping your teams live them on a day-to-day basis because it is it's important for all of us to do this and to model it for all the students in in this big district and help them hopefully carry the torch forward and and really be good at understanding how
to work through conflicts. And I could recite all of them again, but >> we'll leave it at that. But um can I ask one little thing? And and feel free to say no because I'm putting you on the spot, Superintendent Kane, but because we had a few thumps as we're talking,
can you give us a little bit of a preview because we're recording this at Legacy Campus and there's some thumps and some loud noises because there's construction going on here. Can you give us just a preview of what's going on here and and give us a little bit of a a
promotional spot for Legacy Campus? >> Absolutely. Well, I always have to start with we are so grateful to our voters and our taxpayers for the support that they have given this school district over the last few years. Incredibly grateful because we were able to pass a
bond in 2024. We're able to make improvements across the district that affect every single child in this entire school district and every community. And some of those improvements are right here at Legacy Campus. We are actually adding pathways to our career and technical education
and concurrent enrollment program here at Legacy Campus that can be accessed by any student in any of our high schools because we have an aligned schedule. Um, and those pathways include things like construction, HVAC, plumbing. So, a lot
kind of in the in the construction industry, as well as technology. So, we're really excited to be able to offer so many more things to our students. We have 90 pathways throughout Douglas County School District in career and technical education and concurrent
enrollment, four college credits. So, it is not an either or, it is a yes and for our students. And yet we still have weight lists on most of our programs. And so we're so excited that the bond passed and we're able to expand career and technical education programming not just here at Legacy Campus, but also at
Highlands Ranch High School where we are adding automotive and uh Douglas County High School where we are adding cosmetology. And stay tuned because we hope to continue to add more and be able to address the weight lists that we have because we want every student to have
every opportunity to leave our doors and be incredibly successful >> and for all of the parents to be really jealous of their kids for all the opportunities they have >> for sure. >> There's a lot there. Thank you again. That was amazing. That there's so much good stuff going on here and from from
the staff people to the course offerings to all of our award winners and we just had news come down as we're recording this that we had eight Daniels Fund scholarship winners across the district. >> A record believe. Yeah. >> Amazing. Good. Good stuff here. So kudos
to all of you for all the hard work that's going on and everybody across the district that is seeing the climate and culture norms pay off in great ways for our staff and our students. Thank you very very much. >> Thanks for having us. >> Yes, thank you.
Thanks for listening to the season 1 finale of DCSD Notebook from Douglas County School District and special thanks for making this another among thousands of downloads of the podcast since we launched in August 2025. Amy Fister and I hope you have found Parent
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larger community. We'll be back for season 2 when the new school year starts. But over the summer, we have some additional useful episodes to bring you. Before this podcast, Parent University was a live monthly Zoom meeting featuring specific topics and
local leaders. This summer, we're going back into the archive to put a few of the best episodes into this audio feed to give you some bonus content. So, please keep listening and make sure to hit the follow button in your favorite podcast app so you get every new
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