##VIDEO ID:7bEwe_nJMeU## and then a discussion on the annual report and then the the board will go in we close that public portion of the meeting go into executive session uh we will not be coming back into public session after that point um so open up to the public Mr Kennedy you indicated you wanted to speak to something I assume everyone can hear me it's fine um a couple of years ago I suggested to the highway department that they paint the speed limit on the road we don't have money this and that I said hey I'll buy the paint whatever so um things went by and I live on High Street uh 346 High Street this is a picture looking so from my driveway and I would challenge anyone here to tell me what the speed limit is according to the sign which is there but uh that's only half of the problem because even if people could see the sign when they come up that hill and some of them are from National some of them are my neighbors and they're going more than the speed of trust and many times if I'm walking my dog or working in the field or something I look over the drivers are looking at the road just about 40% of the time not the conservative as the rest of the time they are online but whatever and so sign really doesn't matter it should be in the road now I was told well State won't let you do that well that's we used to spread it on the field but that blown me um because if you go to Stow Mass sto if you go to the sto airport in Back Road the speed limit is painted on the road is that road owned by the town or is it owned by the airport is it a private road to the airport if you go from 117 to the airport on sto public roads okay there's more than one road you will see this being painted there and I well there's a sign there telling people what as I said they don't look at the signs and if that so why did you pay the line by the stop sign there's a stop sign there why do you need a line because people don't look to the right the left they look in front 40% of the time so I would ask you and it's not just a highway department thing because I walk and I'm not the only old person that walks on the street and there are young people that walk on the street too people with dogs kids school buses and so forth police chief will tell you that they drive too fast people drive too fast we all do and this would be one thing that might at least they couldn't say which they legitimately could say now well I didn't see the sign you know and it reminds me a quick anecdotal story from back in the old days I forget whether it was AER or Jerry or whoever stop sign was going through a stop sign well the stop sign had been mowed down a year and a half ago they they knew it was it the guy come back here went back he couldn't show it to anyway I would ask you to find somewhere in your budget the money to paint the speed limit on the road and it would be good for the old people you know the seniors would like that why are they going to do it walking like that because walking is a legitimate health issue I mean more people should work with so that's my plea now what do you think did anyone find the sign that's what I want to know no but I know it's a newly paved Road and it's a it's a runway for sure oh good I'll keep it just for evidence where is it just for C out of curiosity what is it where is the sign oh where's the sign you ask well if you look down here it's it would be opposite this telephone pole on the right hand side opposite yeah right take it under consideration make sense it's it's a it is an unfortunate but reoccurring problem in town um we've had a few other folks um share some frustrations about the speed and are did they suggest painting it in the road they did not but our Police Department was what do you think about that I think if they're not looking at a street sign they're not going to look at the street either to be perfectly honest with you so and do you think they are looking at the street side I just think people are driving and now you have you literally have driverless cars now so like it's just irrelevant to be honest like it's up to the driver uh they really a solution my suggestion would be that somebody soon contact maybe the state because if if you think you have to tell a sto or just do it who's going to I I don't believe it's illegal for you to paint the speed limit in the road and and it is in other places too just the same as you have stock painted there pedestrian Crossing you get Crossing marks down here why why don't you just put a sign say there are pedestrians CR here sometime those people won't say it well I hear you Bob I I understand because I live on a road where people fly by as well honestly I don't think people are going to pay much attention to the speed limit unless they feel one there's an obstacle that is going to slow them down such as a speed bump or police presence I would rather see speed bumps on the road but I know the highway department certainly wouldn't go for that because speed Li introd a whole new problem a whole new issue which does not exist with painting this speed liit on the road I don't I don't think understand the reluctance to it I just don't think that it's G to be super effective um but I'll be happy at all I'll be happy to call stow and see if they find that if it makes an impact I'll I'll do that I'll call them and talk to them and see if they find that there if there's an actual benefit to it if it's success thank you all right Mr Cheney it could be an experiment on scientific experiment you could put sign on the road I suspect that for a few weeks it would have an [Music] impact but should check see if I my it and um see what happens so it could be you know write an article old sun or something about be very excited another angle I've seen this before is in parts of Boston they started putting like everyone uses Google Maps or like the ways app to get the places you can actually put like roadblock or pothole on there even if it's not there and it will slow it literally will slow people down because they're quite they're looking for what you don't have to put B up there [Music] yeah but it again I kind of echo what Leah shared I I wish it would help change the behavior you know perhaps the speed what's the the speed trailer can go up there for a short term but I don't I don't know what's a viable long-term solution up there or any or in any of our straightaways because it's people are in a rush you supposedly I notic when you go to the supermarket you go anywhere where it's public P they have handicapped pocket it's painted on the road and people pretty much respect that so I think it works I will I will call sto and ask interest to see do they feel they've wasted their money painting the road and sto I don't know but let me just let me I painting lines on roads Is Not Unusual it's it's it's not just in STO it's it's done elsewhere Cambridge has got it and I I there's nothing wrong with it and I remember the discussion from years ago you brought up here right and I I think if I'm right we we this board and and Karan was not on it this board the select board sent the decision making back to the road Commissioners they they literally have responsibility for you know stop bars and yellow lines and yada yada and I think we sent that back to the road Commissioners for consideration and review I would have gone to a road commission meeting but I couldn't find one scheduled and I was told that they' only have them as needed so I figured you guys made the mistake of having public meetings so here I am so I I think that I had reached out to them when you came you you mentioned this to me in my office too and I had send them sent them an email um I think I sent the highway superintendent in email with us and I actually think it was the chair happens to be here I I think it was discussed at one of their meetings if I'm not if am I correct about that M I wasn't at the meeting but I think it was I saw it on an agenda so so I don't know where that went Mr mik and the answer no is that going to solve a problem a going toop and fin finally want money in the budget and they want to tell us they want that stop that speed Li on that road it'sa all right unfortunately one Qui question for Joan but I'm going to have to cut this conversation because we have a presentation and we have an obligation at six o'clock so in order to keep the meeting rolling John quickly just curious if uh a resident was frustrated and took a pan of cake and a paint brush and did it himself what is the penalty I have no idea sounds like Robin Hood yeah okay sorry folks is there anything else in public comment to discuss here thank you anyway how are we going what's the path forward here we're going to send this back to the road Commissioners I'm going to well the road Commissioners have already apparently rendered an opinion I will follow up I'll ask St to see if there's if they do find a benefit if they say there's a benefit then maybe we can reconsider the conversation with the road Commissioners or we'll bring out Joan with her spray paint and fix the problem for you well thank you very much Bob it's always a good seeing you than pleasure sometimes instructed right okay anybody else no all right so we are going to move on to the budget presentation okay I'm going to Breeze through this it's long but it's it's going to be quick so um first just to quickly review uh our budget calendar and what we've done to date we've had several Trion meetings the chair of the select board me and um chair of The Advisory Board um serve on that committee departments have already submitted their budgets we've had budget meetings with most um and as you know I've sent off summary budgets um to all of you with several scenarios that we'll go through so advisories meeting next week I'm going to give um advisory a similar presentation that I'm doing tonight um we're waiting on final numbers I think from town of GR um and the and the school committee um town of Grant has a meeting Monday night I believe Town manager just released his budget today and then we have to kind of build consensus on some decisions that need to be made around spending basically so revenue is essentially estimated at what we normally estimate two and a half plus New Growth at $110,000 our excluded debt is reducing dramatically from 20 to 26 um both on the school mostly on the school side but also on the town side um state aid we've estimated 4% the governor's budget just came out and we're right in that ballpark uh 750 in local Aid this budget presentation includes a reduction in free cash by $50,000 we use 358 this fiscal I have 38,000 um in 26 it's an overview um as we all know real estate taxes are the major portion of our uh Revenue sources and this is a breakdown of the levy two and a half new growth and our excluded debt this is a slide just to give you an idea I know you all know but just to give you an idea where our local receipts come from the vast majority is motor vehicle excise tax so this free cach slide is really just to demonstrate this line here is our certified free cash number the bars are what um are what we've used to support the budget and then this line I'm color blind so I think that's orange come WR tell um this is our um free Cas balance once we've used it for operating and as you see kind of throughout if we're using a lot of free cash to balance we have a low free cash um number if we as we started to reduce our free cash Alliance of balance increases this a quick slide on best practices for Reserve funds um we have currently have $349,000 in our general stabilization our free cash balance after using it for operating it was at 258 and 25 this gives you um kind of this corner up here the right top right gives you an idea of where the ranges that we want to be we have 607 total um based on the recommended best practices we should have slightly over a million to slightly under two million so these numbers are based on what we received from departments so Department requests resulted in an overall 5.5% increase um that's taking into account the debt res Debt Service reduction um the schools um assessment is an overall increase of 9.19% that includes um a capital request reduction and a significant like I said Debt Service reduction we're still estimating um the ational school at 5% but we don't have final numbers yet so the total operating when was slightly under eight when including capital of 7.3 and this is the breakdown um our general government is based on Department request was increasing significantly 10.3% um this is just the town side not the school side so overall six slightly under six um this is based on my recommendations it's slightly un slightly under five so I have made reductions based on Department requests that I distributed before the meeting but overall 4.82% on the town side so some of the major changes in our budget um Municipal salaries is slightly over 4% that does not include a 10,000 increase in the reserve Fund in preparation of the comp and class study that we're doing um the insurance and assessments have increased by almost 10% that's largely caused um by the pension assessment increase 24% um right now we're not paying for regional dispatch this budget 26 includes an increase of 10,000 in the communications L the police and an increase of 12,000 in the communications on the fire department I'm doing that trying to plan for when we're going to have to pay if we have to come up with it all in one year it's going to be really difficult but if we build it into the budget over time it'll be easier um and then as I talked about the debt service is um decreasing this is a quick um study on what we were spending the 20 uh 2018 was the easiest year in the past that that I could get my hands on the numb so that's what I used um so you see the breakdown and cost is very similar the insurance and assessments have has shifted slightly and the schools have have shifted slightly but overall percent is very similar and same with the revenue um we rely more on the tax levy um in real estate than we did in 18 but if you include the excluded debt it's basically the same I thought this was interesting when you look at the excluded Debt Service and I include the capital exclusion that was adopted in 2023 but the excluded debt has steadily decreased over um over time since 2018 and so the budget scenarios that we're going to review now there's um three that I've kind of focused on one is just based on the new Revenue that we're um that we have available in 2026 one which is based on the Bron number which is essentially what Bron can afford to give to the schools without an override and then the last is a level service budget for GR and dunable um School District which requires an override in both towns so the available Revenue that we have for 26 when you net out the debt service and free cash reduction is $318,000 when you proportionately assign the new Revenue the town gets 119,000 which creates a deficit of $110,000 on the town side the school district Reeds $25,000 which creates a $546,000 deficit based on level service and if the tech V Tech goes up 5% it creates a $3,000 deficit in their assessment if we have to match the Bren assessment which they can afford without an override we would need a $261,000 override to match that number is that a top of or is that just that's just the override it's not on top of leads first box right it's just 200 no no no yeah yeah yes I think I understand your question the 261 is based on the town administrator's recommended budget y um in total in total um and by the way the town of minist recommended budget is far from it's not faral it hasn't been approved by advisory even even for me I I think there's going to have to be adjustments made um so it's a work in progress um the um School District's level service budget um and the assessment that that causes to the town creates a $659,000 deficit to just Dunstable to Dunstable okay can I just ask question is that number changed CU I thought you had said it was something last the um the level this one yeah um I that it did it changed because yes forget the C but yes I just did these but they're very similar they're based on each scenario but they don't change dramatically um so this goes through the school district's Financial impacts based on each scenario so with the proportional Shar your Revenue um the school assessment as I went over goes up 205,000 it's a 2 and a half% increase and creates a $448,000 um problem just on the D side that does not incorporate the deficit would cause on the ground side I think that over 2 million again it's about about the same as last year um based on the grant assessment that increases our the town's assessment um by 353,000 to 4.32% increase for us and it's 300,000 less than their level service budget and then the level service budget creates a $653,000 problem this is just a reminder the schools did have to make some substantial um and very difficult decisions for this fcal year the budget on the the budget increased by under 1% I think they were 20 I think I have that number right 27 positions that were caught class sizes have increased in certain grades at the elementary school small Union and middle and high schools what was the total increase if it increased by 0. n what was it 3 4% doll yeah like okay so these are the impacts of the town if we were to have to um match these uh the grant assessment and the level service budget um for the town to match the grant assessment it would need to reduce its operating budget by a half% from 25 from this year and if we were to have to match the level service budget for the schools in the resulting assessment we'd have to reduce our operating budget by two and a half and cut Capital that would include a cut capital this is just to give you an idea of the magnitude of the deficits in each scenario um the grant assessment creates a $261,000 deficit oh did I you know what I think you're right I think it was 561 I think I I'm going to have to go back and check that um but this um the magnitude of the deficits you see here um the library budget is $200,000 both up per DM firefighters the day shift 106 the police offic is 84 roughly capitals 120 and so on and so forth um again we do have options with capital and free cash I don't know that that's the best path forward but um but that's something we should talk about this um this just gives you this just shows the operating just the operating increases compared to our tax levy increase so you see the problem our tax Lev is going up 2.37 and here the operating increases so there are still some variables here we don't have final numbers for health or general liability insurance um we did get an email this week though for the health insurance that um that does show potential significant increases our employee salaries we do have the comper class study going on now we have police Union negotiations going on our fire chief's contract and my contract um are being negotiated um free cash is not yet certified we're waiting on DLS um um last I reached out to them there were about 10 communties in front of us so that was last week we should be getting close now and um we don't have final numbers from the schools and like I said earlier the TA um recommendations I think are probably going to need some adjustments yeah it is 561 I don't know where that and originally it was that it was and then you came down y it's fine 61 I'm sorry about that so this is just to give you a general idea these are estimates but a general idea of if the deficits are what we're projecting at the moment this would and we went for an override for that amount just in that scenario this is what the impact for the average single family tax bill would be so for the 261 it would be $25 and for the level service budget 561 it would be $445 um so without an override this is an estimated increase for between FY 25 and FY 26 this is just based on the two and a half plus New Growth because our excluded debt is reducing the rough estimate for tax increase based on the budget would be 2267 on average so our history this is our history with debt exclusion override elections and general fund override elections so we have um pretty good success with thatb exclusion requests um general fund overrun requests are essentially 5050 and that's since like 1991 I believe and I just put this slide because it's um it's true there's a lot of communities that are going through this um so we're we're certainly not alone in our budget challenges for25 and I don't think we'll be alone um with our budget challenges for 26 and 25 there were 42 communities so went for General override um these don't add up because there were communities that asked twice there are some communities that had two questions on the ballot and debt exclusion the same thing there were 77 total communities but there were several who had more than one Deb exclusion request average single family tax bill um I just put the variance the variance here so you see the difference between our our bill and the state average but we we remain pretty steady ahead of the average but the difference is pretty consistent and our values are slightly less than the state average and that's been for the last several years so for Capital we went through a a pretty comprehensive process and I have a draft Capital plan that's been put together and shared with everyone um at the moment these are the capital needs for police fire Highway and U the library that we're trying to fund um but obviously that's going to that's going to be impacted by the rest of the budget and I just want to put this includes this because there are a lot of things that are kind of in the work and a lot of things that we're working on to either look at ways to um raise revenue and look at ways to um save money um we have the cell tower that we're still working on which will help offset water rates hopefully we have Municipal aggregation plan program um the massive plan committee use Economic Development continue their work we have a lit projects that are in progress for permitting and approvals Union buildings going on we're just starting a conversation now on the best triangle and as you know we adjusted permit license and other Municipal fees and I just put these because these are things that we are kind of been focused on and working on um in policies that have been adopted it um which kind of set goals for us in terms of one-time Revenue use and free cash in general stabilization balances so these are things that kind are still up in the air I guess that we need to I need I would like some feedback if possible one is the town operating increase right now is 4.02 some Direction on do we need to and that includes some reductions that I've already made do we want to continue to look at reductions um free cash we've reduced by 50 do we want to continue that do we want to level level it from this year next year or do we want to increase it um are we open to a general fund override and if we do need to make budget reductions you know to come up with the two what is it 260 and 560 if I'm correct um what are some of the things you think we should focus on there's no where easy answers to these questions but I also don't want to come here and propose things that the boards are like we no way you're doing that so and then anything else no that's helpful I think it's oh do you want me to not talk to [Laughter] you you know I think I said this when we had a much broader meeting at the the middle school or feels like we're just cycling the same record over and over again um I'm always hesitant to play the same song over and over again because gets old absolutely um I don't know and I think that Spotlight on the headlines is really accurate because you can go into towns and you see the little highway signs that say like voting override again voting override again like how many times can we go back to the well and it's been parsed down so much if there's nothing left yeah um but this is helpful to understand the shortages and you know like a level service budget for the schools is an 8% increase in the overall budget but you guys are asking for 9% so do so this goes back to kind of this confusing conversation of the budget versus the attachment right so yes the budget increase as of now this could shift downward a little bit but I think it's like 7.84% um the reason that the assessments to the town is larger is because every single year like the state of Massachusetts basically says like what how it's going to be split between the towns like what the minimum contribution should be from nonstable versus from Groton so one of the reasons you know DS is increasing is because it is shifting LLY more towards D um another reason is because just like you guys are stepping down your use of free cash like we're trying to step down our use of end which is our free cash um so like rather than us doing that like it's getting put back onto the T we've been doing that for years to try to ease some of the burden on the towns but we're trying to gradually reduce that amount so the number that is reflected in the budget and the assessments right now includes that budget guidance that is potentially subject to change or not like that would be a a decision for the full committee to make um and what are some other reasons why the assessment is higher the stagnant um increase from chapter 7 and that the amount that that grows is not proportional for what we have to um assess the town so again that shifts it a littleit toward the yeah it's it's tough that the town's at between four and a half to 5% and our our school districts at 8% you know the Delta of 3% on a $50 million budget is $1.5 million and if we take that in dble terms and just make it 20% Then you're at 300K and that pretty much nukes our deficit basically you know we just can't possibly cut enough on our side to make either Happ yeah I mean we have we pretty slim budgets for all the Departments here and I mean we've gone through this exercise repeatedly for years and years and years and we've tried you know not having firefighters and that's just not that is not something I'm willing to accept again going forward is to reduce that um I'm not in support of reducing the police department they're already down one officer that had been voted in before that got cut um there is a safety we see there are fires in this town we've had several this year everyone's very familiar with that um those are large budgets but they are not ones that I feel that there's really any fat to trim off of those so I guess if you're asking flat out question or willing to support override I personally would be certainly willing to consider that and it's not something we did not anticipate especially with the loss of the override last year we knew that this was going to come back us I don't think the schools in Vis I mean everybody can trim a little bit but you took some major Cuts last year and having to do that again would probably be pretty devastating to the to the school so yeah I mean we did um we do our financial forecasting and um in the latest forecast I believe it projected in FY 26 before the budget process it projected a $560,000 deficit in poly funding it's 561 wasn't inaccurate yeah which is great it's great modeling but it's pretty it's yeah I mean it's pretty close pretty close to what we thought before I get to you joean Ron do you have any inut um no I I Leah I you've said it exactly the way it is and you know I get I'm a little bit at this point in time kind of cranky over it because I really wanted to do this last year but we'll do it again this year and that's that's the way it's going to be Lacy and Sher the only thing I would ask right and and maybe in the morass of emails that I get on a regular basis this is there but one of the one of the questions that was asked at the last override cycle was that the school district was um fat dumb and happy for lack of a better expression okay and it needed to make Cuts right and that came to us by at least two or three taxpayers dunable taxpayers in a um in a in a in a rather difficult kind of conversation and so and you don't need to answer this tonight but what I would like to do is I would like to get some narrative that's going to explain what gr dustable did to make the budget work in the current fiscal year and and and and I don't think that at any point in time that that was articulated at that level specifically that there was staff cuts and there was this and we've done and the district has done all these things I'd like at some point here to get some of that information to come forward because those same taxpayers are still walking around thinking somehow that we just made it work well the truth is we did and there's a lot of pain that made that work and it happened here on the municipal side too but I'm not sure that we're prepared we're prepared to answer specifically what gr and dunable has done to make that those numbers work and I'm not asking for that information tonight believe me I don't mean to put you on the spot with the Cherry but and Lacy too as well but you know that in anticipation you know in anticipation of those questions being asked I'd like to get those answers developed before those questions get asked right and and you know you know everybody thinks they look out the window and they drive by the high school and they go oh yeah the things there and the grass is green and the buses are running and everything's just fine and see we told you so it's really not quite like that it's really not quite like that and I think what we've got to do is get the district to kind give us a a little bit of an analysis over yeah budget but more specifically what strategic disc what strategic um strategically happened from a prior fiscal year to the current fiscal year um I I you know that I don't know if that information is all that well calculated so that we can go back to these folks and say look this is what's going on over there and if we allow this to continue there's going to be further degradation in academic accomplishments and you know and that's where I'm going with this conversation tonight is that because I you know I'm not a stranger to the town's budget I it's been at it a long time and but it's it it's it's just you know there's this undercurrent that thinks the school districts fact I'm and happy and we don't believe that's true at all we we really don't so yeah absolutely we can do that um we can get over like I together maybe not send it to to Jason and then he can share it with you guys does that work yeah that that that would be acceptable um and and as I said I don't mean to repeat myself but I'm anticipating the questions and trying to develop the answers no I think that's a good idea is that or if if there's a better way for us to do that besides what I said I'm happy to do that yeah I mean I don't I don't know however you guys have anything that you've put together I don't know if Bron's asked this question you know we went to and you guys were all there we went to a bunch of meetings okay and we sat at the gron senior center over there and listen to all those I I hear all that but we're back with the same thing all over again and more specifically this I can name two or three people in in the town of dille that are sitting back on see we told you so it's not like that it is not like that it's not a c I Told You So thing at all that district has had a lot in my opinion from what I know has gone through a lot of pain to make that number work so um we've been um Dr Bruno has been giving um presentations every school committee and when we've been talking about the budgets he has included slides that show this the 27 positions cut and and then we've even started uh adding impact of those cuts um in certain things increase class size um issues that we've seen so uh on our web page um there is a a button that you can put that says the of we've been trying to put all of the presentations um on that site so that's one thing but what we could do is put that as its own um so you don't have to fish through a a slide deck it will just be there um and then another thing that we've talked about doing is a frequently asked questions um document um people can email to budget questions at gvsd.org I'm aning for that and they can send that and then I think we decide once a week I would update the frequently asked questions with questions answerers so that it would be a living document and that it would be accessible um so that we were thinking we could improve communication a little bit that way and people would have an Avenue to ask us the questions directly yeah I think that would be great just getting the information out there to the people so they they know that there is an impact on the decisions that we made and and that and that opportunity for folks to ask those questions needs to be in in in my opinion needs to be articulated on Gart vestal's website and easily accessed so that people cannot come to us and say oh I just spent the last 3 days and I can't find it we want to make it like a banner click on this and get your answers because that's another piece of of the discussions that you know a lot of people are not feeling that the information is um I can think of one guy in particular the information is is is not well not readily available or difficult to find and that somehow um the fact that it's difficult to find not readily available um is is a management strategy it's not it's not it's you know let's put it out there and let's give everybody that opportunity to ask their questions specifically to the district and get those answers okay from this is just one question um so again I think I said this at the last meeting this will be a task for us as a board but working with Jason is creting a a glorious one pager that says this is what's going on in our put it on our what's going on in D the headline essentially um and the schools I know you guys were great at that so also creating a a one pager and then you know last year there was so much energy put into the folks that were supportive of an override from the school angle and like the PT you know the parents and such do you feel that that energy is still present yeah I I do think that I think you know this year we're on a little bit of a different timeline like last year we voted early this year we're not doing that so I think it hasn't really it's just starting to kind of click in that okay it's going to be budget cycle season again and people are just starting to kind of tune in and so I don't think that at this point in time people are like raring to go but not because they won't just because I think that like it's time it's not time yet you know but I do I have every reason to believe that you know come like March you know once we're going to start running forums and stuff like that I would expect to see that level of Engagement again um yeah and what's the I have no idea if this is acceptable politically correct or whatever but it's I almost want to survey the parents that are within the district and say how willing are you to pay $500 more a year approximately at least for Dunstable like yeah whatever the number is like because if that's a resounding no and you get those results in March then we're wasting our time that's an interesting idea I had actually thought about that too what's the point otherwise if everyone if you get 80% say no then we shouldn't be doing this type of effort it's just I think I I would be open to doing that and I think it's a great idea my thinking on it is I feel like there needs to be sort of a an education piece first of like this is what we're talking about and this is why we're asking for this and this is sort of the alternative like if if this doesn't happen because I think if we just sort of put it out there now people would be like do I want to pay 400 whatever dollars more or not no I'll say no well right because they don't know what they be right exactly right so I think right now like our goal over the last next month or so um like the budget book comes out February 12th and and so basically over the next month we're trying to do um as much um sort of public information and you know education as possible in terms of what our budget is looking like um so I would think that maybe a good time to do that would be like late February early March maybe I don't know if that yeah and do you find that like on do you guys track like with Google analytics or anything on your website what the activity is when you you post up like a new like and you find that it's it's a high like a more than a third of the parent teacher population um as like an enrollment like how many people are actually looking at the so okay so I can we have like different um you know there's the website but like I do the school committee newsletter so I can see I can directly check like the analytics on that so I can say that when I send out a newsletter which is like once a month there's usually about 12200 views which I would say is a decent I mean there's 2400 students so you know yeah but I mean just curious because then it's almost like and we do this in our you we mail everyone the flyer we tell people we basically drive it to their house nowadays so you guys are doing the same thing but like you can't tell me you didn't know it's like famous line so I've been thinking about so our newsletter we mail like we it goes out to an email blast to all parents M but there's really we don't do a print copy but it's something that I've been thinking about doing so that there is a way to reach people that aren't parents that aren't on like the email list right the two challenges that I see with that are one budget um and two like our um newsletters are pretty heavy on links like a lot of times like I'll link you know school committee presentations or you know various other things in there so it's not really necessarily super conducive to a print Cofe um but I have thought about maybe doing a limited number of print outs and maybe keeping them here at Town Hall and like the library I don't know if you guys would think that would be beneficial um it's just whatever it takes to get people to say they didn't see it that's right I don't know how you know and you know whatever they vote in the voting booth is their call but at least at least you said you tried everything you could and we did ask in the annual survey that we conducted we did ask what people would support to balance the budget and one of the qu one of the options was an override this isn't the same thing but you know it's the information we have and it was definitely the most divided of the options there were people who would support it and there were people who clearly wouldn't it was right almost 5050 um there were other options that had high yeses otherwise but that one was the most divided of the question of the options it's because when your average tax bill of $9,600 becomes 11100 or 10100 you're like well that's $10,000 bucks yeah 9,000 sounds a lot better yeah I mean right that's just how I don't know so no but thank you that get the right idea I me I like surveying people because then you could say did you participate like did you show the vote you know Joan do you still have a question I forgot okay I haven't I haven't I just was curious if you have a a current figure for your excessive that's certified at 1.4 million right now the preliminary budget uses 400,000 whereas we use 500,000 this current year so that's you know step down but I think that's something that all right is there anything else that that we want to discuss at this point open to a override I am I've been open to it since last year we have to yeah okay yeah um 4.82 on the town side is that it's pretty much the coal of life it is it's funding things I wouldn't describe it as a level service I would it's it's less than a level service honestly and there are some numbers that as you're saying some of the insurance things are just exceptionally higher than were anticipated and there are things I mean just like like that that we have no control over and which is true in everyone's household budgets so free cash Le reduction by $50,000 we want to stick to that for that for now yeah yeah I think that's an opening position yeah okay okay thank you John what's the uh um assuming brought does not have the stomach to go for another over but either way we need one right and so if they don't go for another override we would need an override of how much that's the $261,000 yes thank all right anything else on the budget from the board Jason I'm fine there's no motion you need for this no not thank you School folks okay um yeah thanks for coming in um so in order to order our six o'cl presentation um me take that out of order and address the two other items after the factless they can be done we can quickly move to appoint Bonnie as a treasure okay all right let's Mo come up yeah I'll make a motion to approve the meeting minutes from January 8 2025 second those in favor I'll move to appoint Bonnie ricelli as as intern Treasurer collector well hold on a second that's not how this reads but it should be interm because we're going to try to hire another one at the same okay so in needs to go into the motion doesn't matter I'm just it doesn't need to be there okay second all in favor I I all right good okay I'm just playing on Bonnie she just never leaving never leaving Nim Cog who do we have here tonight before we get started place call to order please second sure and I would like to call to order the planning board okay very good thank you [Applause] both hello I can make a quick introduction and hand it over so I'm Jennifer raid I'm the executive director at the regional planning agency we're based in Greater L obviously D school as part of our region and I'm joined by Kelly Lia who's the deputy director and Chris ha who is the housing and economic development program manager Chris is actually going to be deling this presentation and then we'll all of course be here for to answer any questions I might move back to a seat than for coming in presentation you're [Music] welcome yours okay I thank you so much Jenny thank you to give us the time to talk about at home and greater role Regional Housing strategy um for to week can I to Advan slides how should I just tell you just tell me okay that sounds great um so uh in case you missed it we're Northern M's Council of governments Regional planning Agency for uh greater L basically as far rest as peppero and we have been working on a Regional Housing strategy a few of you have participated in the last year and we want to bring it to the Ryder group here in dunable and in fact all of our municipalities and uh what we're going to talk about today briefly is uh kind of why we're doing a regional housing plan and and what exactly a regional housing plan is two we want to talk about um the strategies in the plan and I'll talk about why that's important and why we came here today to talk about them and then finally we'll be talking about what we're doing moving forward uh in our phase two next slide please so first of all why did we start doing a regional housing plan and that was basically because we heard that housing affordability and accessibility was a priority amongst all nine communities in our region and we also heard that from the business Community actually when we talked about that iic development for our region they said housing figure out housing and in fact both the municipalities and the business Community asked what a regional approach to housing challenges would look like and you really quickly saw that there was I mean I don't think it's surprise to anybody but there is a housing issue both with increasing homelessness uh both families and individuals even before the pandemic um we've seen some Municipal short uh staff and shortages which have been cost of living including housing uh and we've uh heard that from the business Community as well slide and so one thing that we realize pretty quickly uh is that our population in our region in our nag region isn't growing that steeply but the number of households is growing and that's because uh folks are aging families are given smaller so the types of housing units that are needed are now different than they were 10 20 years ago we need accessible units and smaller units just to maintain the same population um and we saw that this this really is a supply issue our vacancy rates have been consistently going down and this again the this uh slide is for the nimag region uh at least for the last 10 years the dotted line is what's considered a healthy rate uh 8% for rentals 2 % for sales and we've been seeing that vacancy rate consistently go down to nearly 0% for sales where they just basically sell as soon as they go on the market and even rentals are down to 2% next slide and so we've seen that highly correlated with the increase of housing cost burden that's people paying more than 30% of their income on housing and so that's about a third in our region it's pretty consistent town to town done Drake it l all have more or less 30% of their um households paying more than 30% bitc come next slide um and so this is kind of where our Outreach came in and seeing if how this is impacting us uh We've definitely heard this the issue of seniors staying in the communities while downsizing uh the labor shortages um but in the long term we see some more concerns about uh with the amount of money going towards housing that's less money spent in local businesses I already mentioned the rising numbers of folks experiencing homelessness um but then we're seeing some the beginning of some longer term trends that are very concerning uh including young adults leaving for less expensive areas sometimes out of the state entirely or out of the North New England region entirely um we are seeing businesses beginning to consider to relocate or expand elare because they cannot recruit and continue to have that young labor force in their um firms and then finally uh we're seeing that there's potentially an increasing burden on the remaining residents often older and nonfixed incomes to fuel the economy and to basically pay taxes for municipal Services because the companies aren't expanding and young folks that have active incomes aren't expanding as much so that's kind of why we thought Regional approach uh was important so we've been working together for about the past year like I mentioned I really appreciate all of the folks who have contributed over the last year next slide um because we really have had a lot of input um literally hundreds of people have input given us input on the strategies the goals and the challenges through three summits uh also we did a region-wide survey of uh types of leaders and we've also done a lot of one-on-one interviews and those are people from across the housing Spector government officials people that are in nonprofits but also the developers owners and other representatives of Representative neighborhoods and towns as well and so what we're uh what we're proposing what's the resolve is a set of local and Regional actions so not necessarily a mandate uh not a not a policy change but right now it's a plan h a framework that has both actions for ncog and for all the regional partners that work across municipalities but it also includes actions for each individual municipality and that's really why we're here today to to talk about that and we're just finishing that part one which is the data and strategies we want to make sure to get the the strategy is correct because we're going to be starting in the next couple months of part two the toolkit and implementation guide and so nimai is going to be actively working uh with our partners on elements to help local municipalities uh Implement those actions that are being recommended um and what we ultimately are working toward we want each municipality and all nine municipalities in the nag region to basically give a thumb up to the plan uh sign on to the plan in some way so that we are providing a unified uh a unified face when we apply for Grants collectively or when we Advocate H for changes in Boston at the state level trying to present that unified face and in that Spirit um and I I think we distributed um a set of 13 no 17 17 strategies amongst six goals uh we are going to focus on a couple of them that are really need to be Municipal Ed because they they're around zoning and Zoning is something that local municipalities rightly control and um uh but we're really talking about all these strategies um so if there are other strategies that you see that you want to talk about we are happy to talk about them today um so we want to understand you support advancing the local actions of those strategies it's a five to 10 year plan um we want to know what you would need what support do you need to advance those local actions what should be in a implementation guide and toolkit and then finally if there are key actions that uh might need to have um some support buil how could we adjust those or what can we do to build comfort with implementation and build support um and I uh you have do you have anything I can talk about the two strategies yeah okay cool um so the two zoning strategies I really want to draw attention to one is is uh What uh planners commonly call missing middle zoning that really looks different from Community to community it obviously way different in MO than it is in dunable but uh uh what we are recommending as a strategy to increase housing and increase the different or types of housing for some of those is um cottage style single family development so small a lot I think it's it's a lot like what's in the mix effective a picture ofing right there an example um so finding more of that to allow more of that near town centers and potentially allowing duplexes uh or triplexes near town centers as well and that would uh involve adjusting zoning I the next side um the other one is taking a look at uh inclusionary zoning that's the uh the the piece of the bylaws that says if a developer builds seven units the seventh unit has to be subsidized and income restricted affordable to let's say 80% of the area median income and I believe dunable does have that uh inclusionary zoning and what we are recommending is that each of the communities go through kind of a market study to determine the right thresholds and see if they could be adjusted whether that means asking for more affordable m or fewer affordable units but either way figuring out how to treat that zoning to maximize your housing goals because we've seen that that hasn't happened in in a while amongst many of the communities um so uh we'll we'll kind of turn it over to free conversation with questions and discussion soon but just looking forward what our commitment is what Nim CG's commitment is um so first of all I mentioned this part one data and strategies so we're getting in with from all nine communities over the months of February and uh I hate to say it but you guys are the guinea pigs you're the first presentation we're doing um so uh over the month of February we're going to get that input by the end of February early March we will have that finalized version to share for uh that part one and then over the rest of 2025 we will be regularly communicating uh through phase two to complete the part two toolkit implementation guide our goals to have that done by this fall so um I know a few of you were able to attend our fall Summit in 2024 we'll have another one of those in 2025 and our goals to get this part two done so we can really be working on implementation basically in 2025 um and then we would of course return to share that part two when it is completed and I believe that's that's all we have for you right now other than answers to your questions go ahead see who that is what is the Inc District yes I'm only saying that because if you look at this District representing right now lot [Music] of um there's there's a few a few answers to that and I I look for to J KY to add on to anything I say but um first of all uh this is a regional plan this is something that we can do uh not with the state's help necessarily it's it's there is a state is working on a Statewide plan that we're going to be learn more about this week actually and so we will be able to know more about how this State can help implementation and support that um number two we do have we have six goals one of the goals literally is about increasing the amount of funding to the region to support infrastructure and schools to um to to really help uh pay for the costs of of of this additional housing and uh we want to work with the states better understand how we can do that then number three we've been doing some research and and we do see that um and we will be having this kind of in the full plan uh that the towns that are experiencing growth in the number of households are tending to have increases in their tax base that is growing faster than uh the increases to their costs um we're seeing the most struggle in towns that basically aren't growing they don't have new growth Revenue um they have declining student enrollment which impacts the amount that the state provides for um the schools as state aid um so it's not a complete answer and there's certainly various um every time is different and every time finances is different uh but we do see that generally one of the biggest concerns financially is actually times that don't have a lot of new growth either in population or in in um in households so one sort of data point that comes from my head is um like I know here in dunable we have a pretty limited water infrastructure setup um but I know other towns like peil towns in um some of the other Nim Cog regions have a much broader reach so I think it's important to understand datawise especially um with some of the activity in peil where like there is a broadening of some apartment complexes to be proposed but then the the stop point is the cost to have water UPS and if I'm a pretty data- driven person I'd want to see what's the cost for me to hook up 100 Apartments my paying the $5,000 per apartment and if there's a strategy behind Nim CG's influence in the area to help offset some of those costs and make the municipality understand the benefit you know and sort of that that would help because there's cost here in town as well looking up to the water system the betterment fee and such so um I think some of those not waivers but if you just have the huge macro View and then you're able to incentivize a developer to say let's you know we'll give you a WAV of the first five Apartments the first five single Cottages there might be some benefit there um especially to the municipality if they're going to get 10 units out of it and you got you wave the F first five and then pay for the other five I don't know just try to create a data point that we understand what's going on in all the towns around us and if we're out of whack if our expense is too high and then try to align them all up together because we're a regional water department so shouldn't our fees be comparable you know in in theory they should be but I don't think they are um same with like trash stps for you could do the same thing with trash service for these big Productions you know these big apartment complexes they could all have the same trash company maybe there's a a benefit in having everybody use Shaw or DPS whatever it is to provide them the trash pickup so um understanding the resources and then ways to have larger buying power would be useful because it would incentivize people to do that so but I think it's it's the right practice and you know whether it be Flex within buffer zones like I know I love the turtles and I talk about on every memoral Memorial Day Parade but um you know is it is it finding ways to help developers improve replication zones because maybe there's a little flexx elsewhere I don't know just an idea all for conservation and protecting but um we have no housing like there's nowhere for anybody to go so I think we have to find some well we do have two projects underway well one is very close to being underway the other is in review which is going to bring in 200 units yeah but this this is Macro for this town the entire region right yeah but we're short but 5,000 housing units in the state of Massachusetts so like we we have to find a way collectively to help you know can be a resource so part of the part of the problem here is that you know of of all these nine communities you know gun is clearly the smallest and you know we're just a very small town compared to uh every other town in uh in this group now as Kieran said we have a 4 four units of housing coming along behind the post office we have another 156 units uh in the works for uh the center of town um you know I'm interested to hear what you have to say but you know uh there's there's only so much there's only so much we can do along with the governor's new what is it Adu uh uh you know plan that's going to enable people to you know do a lot more uh um addon you know uh accessory units we already have excuse me which we already have which where we had to a degree as to a degree um you know I think we're uh I think we're doing our share our part here and I mean of course we have more development you know just uh here and there you know but I just you know when you when you look around you look at these towns and they're all you you mention being able to you know uh affordability when don't have um you know it's the smaller towns that that don't um you know can't can't keep up well the bigger towns aren't keeping up either you know they have the same problems we do you know they have all the business they have all the uh all the um you know uh housing and everything they have the more housing than we do but that but they they don't have any money eat so you know I mean I'm I'm certainly interested to see how how we progress here but you know I want Dunstable to stay Dunstable and U you know I'm not interested in you know seeing to in promoting you know a bunch of development so sorry i' like to pick up on what Jones said uh we have real needs in town for affordable housing for our people we need to do a lot for our people quite frankly I'm not so interested in solving the district's housing issues um simply simply because we happen to have a lot of open space uh which some people we call unimproved um and um it used to be a concept back in the day came out of Europe I guess called Green Bel and we're it for our district uh if you fly over gun and look at the state line you will see Nash was never met a development or business district that in the like just p right down to the line and then it turns green and you know what half the people using that Thousand Acres or so along that line of open space protected open space come from Nashville which is great that's good but the point is they need some place to go um when I was a kid this was the area where people from L came to hunt and they had dogs and they knew they knew what they were doing so well they don't come here for that anymore but they come with their kayaks and they come with their bicycles and so forth um a state elected person remarked last here that cons H in the whole was all this land we got the idea being apparently that we develop it one way or another well that's one way to look at it another way to look at it is we're going to be a place where people can hopefully come and quality of life stuff like open space uh and so although we I I definitely understand that we need to take care of our people and their needs we regard the housing and we haven't done it it's time to do it but I'm not interested particularly in being part of a solution to turn us into to three or something like that more keep in mind that's it so maybe going off that thought is if if I'm a if you're working within the region it's okay like from the state perspective is there a credit a really green town can assist its region with so we keep our town really green and that's really helpful to the environment in a bigger picture maybe there's a program where that offsets t Beres you know putting in a zillion homes whatever right like try to find almost like it's like a environmental credit like carbon credits at like Bank of America bu and things like that like maybe there's a program where you allow tar it's an ncog to build 200 affordable housing units and the Green Space IND dunable helps offset the consumption of the Green Space the turtles down there we them up here or finding a way that the town can benefit the region in another way rather than because you know I think as Joan did say we we we have inclusionary zoning I mean we're kind of checking some of the boxes that are here which is you know great example for the other towns in the region um and we have actually with the Cottages that you showed up there is the project that we are putting in so which is which is great and the other 156 unit that's coming in which you know to us that that to another town that may not seem like much to us that's significant um yeah it's a significant amount of housing units that are already coming in so I don't know maybe this a little bit of like we don't want more so we don't want to be changing our Zoning for this so doing that to try to be spurring more of this type of you know 100 plus unit development coming in um but I I don't I personally wouldn't say that we don't want to be part of this and have some say and provide some sort of you know other benefit that we can you I think the could I say one yeah yeah I think the benefit for us could could be a few things one I because we have these projects um in in the que we really should be I think Karen you were saying this we really should be improving some of our infrastructure to support those projects water sidewalks and we don't have the money to do that and there are State programs that connect infrastructure dollars with housing developments that we should be and could be taking advantage of to do those type of things that I think you know as part of this strengthens our position to access that money um the other thing and just being in town hall I hear it a lot and I think these two projects are going to really really help with that especially the MCO project but I hear a lot of people who are aging who are from dunable who have lived here their entire life um come in to pay their taxes complain about paying their taxes and then say I'm going to have to move out of town and I don't want to move out of town and I wish there was somewhere somewhere I could go and they don't necessarily want it's not even about in some cases affordable housing it's about going into a different type of housing that they're in now right because they don't have the capacity to care for the house that they're in now because our zoning requires large lots and basically large houses and that's what's built here and so even with the inclusionary housing Zone zoning bylaw it's hard for developers to developers don't really make it work or having a hard time making it work because they're building million dollar homes and they have to build a seventh or a sixth home that that looks like it but make it make but they need to make it affordable that's a that's a real challenge if we cut the lot I'm I'm just I'm not saying this is the the answer but if we cut the lot of size and half and allowed smaller homes to be built guess what that makes it easier for the developer to comply um and so I'm just saying those cottage style homes that's a real Sol I mean that's like I I personally kind of publicized that project on my social media because it's a real Innovative and creative way to address the problem that the town took on their own to address it and it's and the response I got was really positive from housing Advocates to rural community saying wow that's a really creative way to address it two things about that first of all as you indicate um the town has been trying to do that proactive yeah for over 10 years now various things happened along the way uh some beyond our control which postponed it finally it's happen going to be building this spring summer I understand hopefully hopefully um and um and the turtles will be taken care I know oh I do I like the turtles so you know that's that's to our Town's credit it is will I agree um and there was another point that I was going to make but of course it's well but it is it's an accomplishment of the town to be a for the town to make the property available shape the project in a way that really was creative and address the need and it's not you know a typical kind of throw up of five story building with affordable units in it call a day it's it's actually these kind of middle is that what you call missing middle homes that people a lot of people are really looking for we're using n Acres yeah yeah yeah having cut cutting your lot size to an acre and a half in and and just slapping up a lot of homes that's that's not this it's the way to go I know the other me that is that it turns out that um aside from open space Kinders and hikers and one thing or another fresh air and clean water and all that water we're all aware that lo and behold we have one of the best public water supplies around both in quality and quantity and it turns out the St loves it we're working with petol to uh share water with them which will bring us some money because will down the road as well um but again our natural resources not for development but necessary except for our own needs but you know we're going to be Pride water uh and it turns out that we have about a th000 Acres already protected around that Battlefield and the town meeting just recently protective that's smart so I'm just trying to understand I think most if not all of us in this room look at the project behind for town homes and we say that that's a good project so is the is there a question on theable of like can we update zoning to make additional projects like that possible or what what are we trying to do here it's part of the the project that they're well they're not proposing a project necessarily to tell us to do that it's recommendations to how a town in in this region may be able to sort of booster the ability for them to do a project like that um for T that you can probably answer this I know you can answer this better than I can but so so I think you know we're we're mostly talking about um this strategy it's honestly the first strategy it's Implement zoning changes that encourage the protection of hous can current and future needs and that's that's that's basically it um we probably aren't really talking about let's say changing your our I our 4 R1 R the base of residential district to make it smaller Lots what we are suggesting is that each Town think about where those cottage style developments make sense often the town centers uh for town to have highways sometimes it's near the inter change for towns that have train stations it's near the train station and yes adjust the zoning to allow for more of that style of housing in some cases I think IND dustable the Cod style really makes a lot of sense s in some cases it might be duplexes or or town homes um in L it might be five story apartments but uh uh that's kind of where where what what the 1.1 really means what that suggestion of zoning means now there's a lot of other kind of recommendations but I think they're um I think that's the one that's probably needs the most local thought and local action and uh we definitely are thinking of this is a regional approach because what what L does impacts vable what vable does impacts peal Etc um but that we haven't and you know we know just kind of looking at the projection data and looking at where we want to get that vacancy number so it's back upet to number it's it's 20,000 units in um in 10 years but that's 20,000 units up the entire region and what we hope to do in the the coming year is once we get kind of the acceptance that every town has a part to play but it's going to all look very different is really work through that and say Dunstable part is going to look a lot different and smaller um because it doesn't have access to highways or train stations but it does have um a lot of amenities near the Town Center um that that lend itself to the C style and so uh kind of work through the town and figure out what that might look like and again not now it but rather figuring out how we can out you think nard could use their voice to um adjust the 40b regulations is that affordable housing is a bit of an oxy normal if a transaction takes place somebody could afford it so what I think Jason said it and some other people already said it is we have an entry level home price pressure and we have an aging in place price pressure and I think if we could adjust the we can adjust this selling by ourselves don't necessarily need neon to do it but if we wanted to build more um Shi uh we could have a neighborhood with two acre homes and maybe they sell for one million maybe they sell for 1.2 it doesn't matter the market will bear whatever that price is but I think you were saying Jason if we go down to a half an anre if we did that we would presumably I think what you're saying is lower the average price in that particular development and I think what that does is it sort of homogenizes us to 8 a little 20% better than the Shi and why do that why not allow there to be a million dollar neighborhood but put two affordable houses affordable units in and and make that unit look exactly like all the other units but it happens to be divided down down the middle and it happens to be uh included in the Shi I think that's a great way to address the problem for towns like Dunville and it doesn't have to be Statewide it could be a modification to the 42 regulations that allows towns for example to have fewer than 5,000 you know there are other regulations in state rules that regulate certain things when the population goes up they could choose a certain number and say a town smaller than this you now have the the option of putting in Shi that doesn't have to be identical in square footage for example so if you could use your voice to change that law I think that would be a great thing um I think I think the reason though just to try to answer that question question and this is a community decision but if I were to answer that question the reason is is because people in the community are looking for different types of housing not just a million dollar home sure and so the reason to consider something different than that is because it would serve people in the community in a way different than what's being offered now yeah but we had the authority if someone had 10 Aces and they said we want to come in and put in uh 20 homes we today have the authority to do that without an adjustment to the state W except uh the Shi definition right but zoning is a way to influence what's built in your community it it promotes it it precedes somebody saying oh a great idea than trying it allows the community control what's built rather than the develop to me the problem with [Applause] can you take that off the table I'm sorry I said it I I wasn't proposing half faith of life I just gave an example anything don't use that please don't use that town a feeling lot of comment that you know one one I common idea is reduce the lot size the problem with that is we still going to have million homes I mean when you have a cluster we have clusters on and you know obviously part of that deal is less than two acre lots and they tend to be acre lots maybe a little less guess what they million dollar homes uh so and if were half go L do the same thing um whereas my district un that really solves some issues uh rattle Farm the only problem personally speaking that I have with that is the number 156 we going to have my view uh our own little urban center in dustable imagine if it was 60 piece of C great put 60 somewhere else in town uh so they fit in but that is the way to my way think that we solve the issue of the beginners the Enders the town employees whatever the issue is and you know we're we're making a good start I think and I I really I was not I just I needed an example and I just pulled it from my [Music] AC and of course people don't understand we don't have time sewage either and we're not do right maybe just for like strategy it's you know I'm kind of paraphrasing a few different folks it's like focusing on this like the how to properly build out sidewalks bike Lanes things that people really enjoy about the town and they seek out gun for and what that means infrastructure wise to us like the 113 Project's wonderful it was it's awesome it's done such a great job for traffic and movement through town and smoothing it out you know and you had some water that went down it so like it's you know strategy wise I think it's finding more ways to enhance the features we have and getting to them um because I think these other communities within the ncog district could probably also benefit from some of those side walks Street lighting you the right right types of Street lighting you know the right types of curbs for nature and conservation and turtles or salamin whatever it is um because I think there's a lot of hesitancy especially in dble because we don't want to change what it is but I think we could improve bike planes we've had a number of people come to our meetings about how fast people drive here in town and how it can be a little scary to be a person walking a dog on a side road um so I think there is some resources and Power of nim Cog within all these regions to help improve those things and give recommendations and perhaps point us in the right you know direction for getting a large company to come and assist us with the paving or whatever or work with our road commission and so on so so I hav got a chance to talk about the fores um we do have one recommendation that uh hous Services office basically and that will also help allow us to look across the region and see what challenges we have with with 40ds in terms of of uh both them or not I know there's some there's some concern about fair housing basically saying that you know the subsidized unit isn't as nice as the other unit but that could be that could be things that explor in that regional office definitely uh in terms of bik and head stuff uh yes agreed that's not for the housing plan but we are doing a regional bike and head but it does improve housing yes so like it it is it is connected 100% this this is about housing affordability but absolutely 100% is holistic yeah well if you had a bike path from our affordable housing District you could potentially work at Dunkin' Donuts or the coffee house or whatever is going to go in together yeah I mean that's or you can walk to the library you know work there and that's I think what we're getting at with thinking about kind of proactively thinking about where those other clusters are rather than saying they go anywhere they go places where a bike and head path might be already be yeah no that's great that slide of what we're asking today unless unless we want to keep talking about the strategy justly but just to kind of make sure that we heard everything that you told us which has been very helpful and that we have more things on your agenda so yeah thanks yep so just you know we won't go back to bullet point one but um what I just I'm so I'm sitting here just and summarizing um yeah thank you um so you sort of in terms of what do you need to advance any local actions and of course it's we understand that you might not do everything that's in plan right that's not what we're asking what we're asking is do you support advancing those local actions in some form that makes sense to Dunstable in order to meet those strategies in the coming five to 10 years so it's like a a long Horizon you also did just adopt a housing production plan that last year last year last year so you have a housing production plan that's in place it's a fiveyear plan and that's also a road mapap for the town in terms of how you want to meet housing goals and we this no way supersedes that in fact it's complimentary and and helpful in terms of what you've already thought about and discussed in terms of thinking about housing um but I think what I heard was a little bit that we should think about in our planning that would help you um to advance these local actions would be more about incentives you know and the the question was phrased in different ways about what types of incentives would be helpful in order to better understand what is the incentive for the housing and also so how could it be incentivized a little bit of both um like what's the incentive for the town to do this but also what incentives are there if we do this um and then understanding a little bit more about metrics around infrastructure um and infrastructure kind of broadly including some of the amenities that we just talked about like sidewalks access um we talked about um water who talked about a lot of other things but I think that those are complimentary to anybody experience living in a neighborhood you know you live in your house you live in your house in a place that ideally has those things that you want that make it feel like it's your home in the neighborhood um and then I think on the last bullet point there and also a little bit diving in more deeply on the second bullet point would also be about affordability that there are specific needs that you have um and that we talked about also in the H and production plan around people who are aging and like wish for options and there's there's others I remember as well but since we talked a little bit about that first one um you know how do we get that type of housing that we need here in dunable that meets that particular uh type of demand for people who are aging and may wish for just a different housing option not necessarily affordable housing but any option would be helpful on the third bullet point what I heard was just a better understanding of that you'd want to see would be a better understanding the benefits across the region what does that actually look like because we and not every community in our region necessarily will we'll look at all the strategies and say these are things that we can do too um every every Community is going to have a different way of vocalizing and um you know having opinions about what those things mean for their respective communities whether it's l or TB there it came up but also Bill Rick chelur they all have their own various very unique uh perspectives and opinions about development and about preservation um so I think understanding a better understanding the benefits across the region would be helpful what does it look like in dble versus those other communities um and what is the collective benefit and then the last one that I heard was um that we we don't have it necessarily spelled out yet but what other state level changes or guidance might be useful in order to better achieve these goals um so that's that's what I heard did I miss anything no I just think that the only other thing that I'm hearing is definitely this this discussion that we have when we talk about housing which is like where do we want to conserve and where do we want to grow um and particularly thinking about the amazing open space amenities in dun school I don't think we're looking to detract from that at all it's just it's around that strategic conversation about where is where are different types of housing that are not just a a 4,000 s home on a 2 acre lot where is that appropriate for dle and where is that strategically aligned with the infrastructure that you have or how is it aligned with grant opportunities to pay for infrastructure that you need um so that we can leverage that type of growth to get more benefits accured to DST both of the things that you are already doing so that's I think the other that's great yeah yes so I guess the first the first point because that's really what we were hoping for you know so we're moving into this next um as you saw slide that we had been on for some time then we're moving in we're wrapping up this phase one we're moving into phase two part of that wrap up of phase one and and as noted you're first just by math and and availability um that's technically the be be first but um but you know it's uh it's we're we're going to be talking to every one of our communities and that's the intention is to have the same type of conversation perhaps for you know maybe multiple conversations even but we want to get a sense that you're on board so that we can confidently move on to our next step in the process and and by on board and it's not asking you to adopt anything to move forward exactly with a specific Strat today but that you would support advancing the local actions of each strategy in the coming 5 to 10 years in a broad in a Broadway tonight so that we can begin to like explore the other things that you've mentioned and that I'm sure there will be more things added to that list that we will begin to develop as we work yeah what's the population of of men is it roughly 200,000 people 310,000 310 W and so and we're about 3600 I think so are we is that 1% so 1% of 20,000 units would be 20 units I think 200 2,200 units be 200 unit or 20 20 un okay so if we if it's easy to look at D say w they all that way well they land and break it they land PR too um but proportionately we would be adding 20 un for ex which is I think close to what we're required to do for our to meet our Shi yeah number based on the projects we have in the pipeline yeah over a period of 10 years there was 20,000 units needed over it's a good way to look at not for your sh that's based on the for the Shi No I that was the the initial figure was 20,000 units need to be added and if we represent 1% of the region okay I got it thank you thank you for coming thanks for coming yeah Jason I have anything want um I think the only other thing to ask on the back of this hand is a way that you can sign up to stay informed as we go through phase two please do that um we don't send lot of email but it is a way to know when other events are coming up especially if you were like wait H's doing this um so that is one way to stay informed and I know that um Jason helped us to share a survey in advance of this meeting if you haven't taken it we would still love to hear what you think um especially now that we've had an opportunity to talk so thank you for your time does everyone have a copy [Music] if you get summary bullet points or summary notes from every other town and if that like you share that with Jason or just like w be interesting to see like you know peol says towns in tobery because some problems are alike and some are so different and it's just informative for us probably to understand what other commities are facing compared to us because we're not all alike so cool to have that thank you thank you so much all right thanks for coming in folks we appreciate it do we want to have our boards that don't want to meet anymore disbanded before we shift into things unless they want to St reading the room we're not yet I'll have a pizza [Laughter] going T Farm Stand still open thank you pay off He's Mine He's Mine never mind out 20s I want a Zer on that bill Christ that was a good meeting we're we got a back up against the wall you think that's do you think that's his that's it is yeah it's fine it is [Music] yeah all right well so sorry folks who are watching for we can go on here we can continue on so the next thing up here is the uh Jason may want to speak to this is the AC yeah architectural services contract for the library in advanded Stand improvements we go want to give them an approval on a bin relocation we can do that so I thought at our last meeting we gave him well we were prority to negotiate and conclud we were locate we were going to with there was a couple other questions that we were waiting for um Mr yeah Town Administrator yes sir well I'm going to take this out of sequence the yeah bin relocation oh yeah when I we had our last meeting mine too when we had our last meeting you were charged with uh yeah having the approval the ultimate Authority and the goto guide well so last meeting we talked about two potential locations at the same s yeah the MUD district yeah so one was where it used to be yep the other location on that site was off to the side yeah adjacent to the driveway driveway I talked to the principal from M I just want to make sure everyone's comfortable I talked to the I talked to Mark he essentially said he didn't care however he could not commit to having it there permanently I would agree because he just doesn't know what the front site is going to be going to look like what the layout is etc etc so he's fine with us putting it back temporarily wherever we want to put it and then longterm he'll try to work with us on it but he he was just uncomfortable making that long-term commitment we understandably absolutely so um if it's all the same to you we can move it back to where it used to be um and so are we moving it to the location on the driveway or are we moving it to used to be where they were but they can be reoriented yes wait a they're going to be what they could so okay you've got here's and Joan said they would paint them a different color Joan Joan F remember they were here where the Cruisers sometimes hang where the cruiser always hangs right so that gives you a larger view of them where are they going to go you could do it like this on the side just pivot it 90 de 90 de 45 degrees a nice poted PL or something so it's not in full view but still of equal access and they will they can paint them another color because people to the blue we'll put it back where it is but I let's follow her plan going to reorientate done all right just what just what Leah has there so they'll be perpendicular to the excuse me they'll be parallel to the dark green parallel to the driveway perpendicular to the road perpendicular to ju from their original PR location I got it all right all right I so not GNA have put on I'll move to relocate the blue bins the blue textile recycl bins to the MUD district site in the location as discussed being no they parallel to the driveway supporting the post office not not when have a second verbally assaulted all in favor think a b about the billable hours that have gone into these blue bins and what the paybacks been on this that's a zero equation police there's trees between the the uh SN property and the post office the road there could you move it closer to the trees there and yeah that's what we're gonna do we're gonna do this can move them this way she's got a little sketch right put him along that tree line there and nobody would okay we are no longer talking about and they're not blue anymore they be next no right until next week all right we're going to jump back into our number seven item here which is the architectural services contract for the library and the Bandstand improvements are these going to being done by the same person okay cool what um I'm gonna I know no we need an architect for renovations to the Band Stand we yes because we still have we still have state funding that we need to use and at this point in the project I need assistance with developing and scope on what we should do because we've done all the loaning fruit work and so now there's some lighting potentially and there's other potential improvements but I do need assistant it's it's 1,200 bucks or something okay so this this this Services contract is going toie I just want to be correct on sorry I don't think it's 12 no it's 27 27 Sor this is going to be to review the van stand come up with proposed modifications and help uh in terms of an RFP construction Administration yep okay yep exactly and then the library same with the library yes so my question on the library is not specifically to what they're doing at the library although you and I'll have a separate discussion the next day to about that but has the library board voted to approve this contract because that's the that's the I have been working directly with the yes with the director so I I know that she's been communicating with them I don't know if they've taken a formal um a formal vote on it but this um we have we received a total of $75,000 from the 25 fy2 state budget and the purpose of the aark was for two reasons one was firefighter PP and then which is $32,000 of it and then the remaining balance is for the for the windows 42 43 43,000 so um so we'll have about um 36 $37,000 remaining and so she's going to help us develop a scope of work that fits within our budget which will be exterior doors windows trim sockets at the library yeah and then after she does that and the things 600k in repair work well so we have it's not going to be 600,000 but it will be more than our budget there's no doubt about so that's part of what the work's going to be is prioritizing the most important stuff that's why I guess at some point I'm going to step into a couple of these things with the library because I'm I'm telling you that library is walking down a dock tunnel they've got they've got two boilers used to have three one leak they shut it off they're running two fits 5° outside one of those boilers goes down that liary is going to freeze everything's going to freeze it's and and the trouble get a test of time this this this is architectural then the trouble with it is that there a it's a whole new board right all the members that were there are including the director and I'm I'm it's it's the ACC conditioning system is original to the library never been modified can't buy that refrigerant anymore R22 is not available and you know when I think about we're going to have this going to do doors and windows and you know the boiler system is sitting behind a closed door and it's okay until it doesn't work anymore and though that's a Jason so yeah I certainly can yeah I can overreact sometimes but in this particular case that is a dark tunnel and they're going down and um uh just me you and I talked about these boilers and those guys over there one of those is a is that one of those boilers has been shut down and abandoned because it was in such poor condition and they're running to you can't heat that library with one boilet you need to they'll close it and same thing with the elcy system how old is the LI J be 25 years old 25 26 years old roughly right sounds right I mean you know it's these things they got they got to show up on somebody's radar screen well so let me let me just add let me add to this so This budget that we have from the state funding is certainly not enough to replace those items no it's not we know that so but the other thing in motion that will hopefully help us do what you're saying is we have next Tuesday I think it's next Tuesday it's next week Tuesday or Wednesday Tuesday or Wednesday we have um a team subcontracted by national bre coming up and um doing evaluation Town Hall um police station Highway andot good in the union build and this is this is the start of the effort to update our energy reduction plan under the green communities act so in order for us to apply for the next round of green communities money we need to update our energy reduction plan that is next Tuesday Wednesday was the first second of I've already talked to them about the library and its Agra so that is part of their work that's going to be done next week frankly I think that's probably going to be the pro well we'll talk about it when we get there but um it's certainly going to be high on the list of priorities when we get to a point where we're applying which is hopefully going to be the spring round this spring round coming up so it's not lost it's just it's piecing it all together because we don't have a ton of local money we're getting State money and we're part of we're looking at these grant opportunities as a way to make some of the larger Investments so it's definitely not lost it's just in progress okay I I just you know but you're you I'm perfectly I'm not going to be a stick in the mud about an architectural services contract for windows and doors but in my in my narrow view that library has got a lot more money to spend on I mean you and I look at that light pole and there's this there's this there's this discussion that well we just go get another light pole it's a $9,000 light pole it is it's not like we're going to go to Home Depot and buy a new light pole and and and and that is part in possible you and I looked at that right most of those lights don't work um that they use mercury vapor lamps which are pretty much not existent anymore and it needs it that we have that parking L and put LED into it and you're probably looking at 45 $50,000 in in poles and lamps and yeah I mean one light pole is is about 3500 bucks just to buy the pole and I'm sitting here going doors and windows are like so far down the list I can't even see them well this may be a whole bigger discussion it could be now the energy plan okay because they did an original energy plan National Grid did an energy plan for us they did they did and and I have a copy of it right and we've at the library we've made significant efforts to meet that plan right we changed all the interior lighting over to LED eight years ago whatever quite a while ago right this place has never had any we anything done to it we did replace the boilers upstairs okay and whether or not the Town Administrator at the time ever got money that we should have gotten for putting in 95% efficient boilers there was a rebate from National Grid gas for putting in those lock and vs that are up there right and it was a lot of money how much I think it was $10,000 that's I don't know that that ever happened and whether or not she applied for that and I don't know whether or not if they if she didn't can we do it now where's the check yeah I don't know but that energy plan we specifically got rid of those cast iron sectional boilers and put those lock and bars in because the grid was National Grid gas was given us 10 grand towards that project okay can we make this Library beyond what we have here to discuss quickly Joan please we still have quickly you guys have been rushing me all hey you know got a lot to do still question I just you're replacing doors in the library what doors are you replacing so we don't so the we know the work is going to have Moren has a couple doors that one that doesn't no close enti and then there's another one that has a lot of on the bottom if if you're asking me exactly which ones I'm not sure but there's two that she's ident she there's two exterior doors that she's identified I believe and then I just have exterior exterior do and then I just have pictures of them I haven't like dra you know so then there's a lot of window trim Rock um and you know you can even like in one of them you can see like animal activity and so that those are the type of things those are like the immediate needs that we're trying to about right now for the immediate work just to address those issues the reason the reason I asked is you know we're trying to some of us are trying to you know get that uh Community the community room um to be a little more uh usable accessible too and one of the you know problems with the with the library Trust Keys is that I guess the keys that you know fit every door in the place or whatever so I was just going to say you know you have to change some doors maybe we could get you know a couple you know different sets of locks there so that you know so that you could use the community room and not have to worry about access Library that's been done that that plan is better part of being done that's been done that it has been done it's pretty pretty close I know we were I was down there doing some key stuff with there the other day about making sure that the keys open just the door to the community like good see how quickly we can get things done it happened in just five seconds right now they just put a new policy they just wrote up a new policy and it's called the it's now called the uh the meeting room you know and then it's this room is it's not the meeting room it's the community room and you know the library just you know can't I I'm not going to be able to say anything nice here so I'm not going to say anything but you know we got a problem here so let's see if we can fix so I he the keys are the locks are being changed I moved to award a Professional Services contract to Emerald design build for architectural and Design Services for repairs to the B stand and repairs to the library in the total amount of $99,000 6,300 for the library 2700 for the fan stand and authorize the chair of the board to sign the contract on behalf of the board I will second that motion all those in favor I I just one quick little thing in here probably irrelevant but under the library section there's just a typo where it still says van stand instead you know she for for some of the site visits she's doing yeah she put it on one so she's not double charging us because it's only one visit yeah you know what I mean yeah but this this is um for product selection selection of band s placement materials it's under Library it is under the library library jeez okay got you I think that's just a transposition it's just yeah just y okay thank you excellent um okay the next one is the building improvement contract for the police station window Endor replacement I'm I'm going to move this forward move to award to cont move to award a contract to F contractor Corporation for the repair and placement of the windows and doors at the police station in the amount of $ 44,45 and authorized chair of the board to sign the contract on behalf of the board I will second that motion all those in favor I I I and FYI that 44,000 is money that has come from the state it is not coming out of our budget beautiful okay annual report discussion did you have to in well I was here in case you had any questions project I will say this real quickly not that we need to extend this meeting anym it's already been but um so we had we got a 44 $45,000 quote um mark from State and um we got we town meeting approved $20,000 that we kind of assigned to this project in a overall bucket amount so we had a total of 65 that we kind of earmarked yeah for this project looks like we're only going to need 45 which the earmark the state ear Mark covers completed so there's $20,000 in our Capital appropriation that now Bec available that we should talk about it some okay and the only thing I want to add to this all right so that we don't get into a five alarm fire the the the police station is in historical district right and whatever Windows you're going to put in there I know but that's you got to run that by them they got to have some say on that so perhaps that $20,000 might may or may not be NE NE for historically satisfying how old is that they just have to look the same well that used to be the post office right office was the kid I don't know what year they built it's old building does have to be it's in the district you gotta you gota you got yeah you got to run that by them I mean they have to look the same like the union building weren't replaced with I I'll not I'll not okay yeah so in that $20,000 could ALS could be used to cover some of that if it is an issue well yes but we'd like not to if if have if there's historical PS then that just ask the contractor the contractor for a submitt all right a submitt on the window we haven't even picked out yeah you got to and then just make sure get make sure historical at least in the Lo with it next year the energ code goes to Triple pain Windows which is going to be great the cost we going to go through [Music] the okay a good thanks Chief thanks Chief and then I I just I want to just go back on one thing Leah if if we can Bob Kennedy's issue with this painting of the roadways all right you know that has been before this board at least a couple of times I think in in the years right I want to be sure that the road Commissioners addressed this conclusively well they talked about did they then a decision however we choose to get Bob you know you can call sto you I'll call sto I said I would call him there's no data that sto's not going to say oh yeah we've cut the tra in half it was included on their agenda I think as a result of the email ense so they did see the email ENT based on the conversation Mr Kennedy they put it on their agenda they talked about it and I think they made a decision that they well Mike said he said Bob should should have been you know I'm sorry we we've considered this and we have we're not taken this approach and here's the reason why we just close it because I I feel bad he's been brushed in my opinion he's been brushed off a couple times over this and he's a nice guy and he deserves conclusive answer we're not going to do this and here's the reason why it's really not a select board issue not it's not so I would really like to not spend more time on this absolutely thank you annual report oh man that's on the agenda yeah I forgot about that that was just for the cover right an overhaul do you want the the question remains we sent example yeah we basically sent examples of of the annual reports that were recognized by MMA so long ago I've looked at them so I did look at I mean a part of me maybe I'm just a nerd for this but I actually I like our design and just sort of the expectation that it's the same and it's you know people maybe go to the same find yeah it's like going to the grocery store right like you know if you go to aisle whatever it's going to be fruit and vegetables recognizable yeah and like and you know we I think there might be some value in just replicating what we do because it's it's notable I don't want to waste paper or be insensitive to the work that you and Sue have done but the other part of me says just what Joanie summarized beautifully that it's just you go to page 20 you know it's going to be a dedication yeah but that's just one person's thought yeah aot cheer can it be done a lot cheaper in way the only way to do it cheaper is not print it yeah I you gotta I think at this point it's not a doll I'm sure we've got a lot going on right now and it may just be I mean just stick with what we have for now is it does it create more of a burden for your office to do the same thing no no you you're allowed to no more dep bur for them to change it's less it's not challenging us as much because I think we can do much better but that's fine yeah okay maybe we can revisit next year when yeah when we have more money when we have more money we don't need money to do it it's not a money issue we're feeling a bit more spunky with creativity yeah um you ready to go okay yes so Tony we're giving you the boot this time I'm go well all right folks good night thank you very thank you have a good night safe drive home um we need to make sure we get shut off here make the motion to adjourn this move that the select board enter into executive session pursuant to Master General Law chapter 30A section 21A purpose two to conduct strategy sessions in preparation for negotiations with nonunion Personnel specifically Jason silvaon administrator and to conduct act contract negotiations with non non-union Personnel Jason Silva the Town Administrator the board will not reconvene an open session following executive session I will second that motion okay all those in favor Michael I Leah b i Kieran I thank you for those online good night everyone thank you for joining [Music]