6, 2025. Our agenda this evening, we'll start with a public comment and then we will have a discussion on 473 High Street for chapter 61. That's a joint discussion with the town's right of first refusal option with historical commission, conservation commission, and the affordable housing
committee. Um, next is uh the land management and conservation restriction plan for the Kennedy property at 346 High Street. After that is uh the discussion on the
the sale of the town land which is was approved many years ago from the town to the dunstable church for the parking lot and then an appointment of dawn door to the parks commission. See the meeting minutes have been striked. So that's it should be
short unless we get into lengthy conversations here. So we'll dog door here. Sorry I don't see her. She's not Was she planning to come? Yeah. Okay. All right. I was gonna say we could take it out of order just to set set them free, but you can wait.
All right. We'll open up public. Is there any public comment for anything not on the agenda this evening? I see everyone here is for this. Okay. So, we will move on. 473 High Street. So, um as you probably all know at least a little bit,
this is a 11 acre parcel up on High Street. Was owned by the Meansen family. Um, previously uh it's historic house and is under a 9-month moratorum from being demolished. Am I correct in that?
Um and it being in chapter land, the town has the opportunity to um purchase the property with the first refusal within 120 days of being given notification that the property is going to be sold before it can go through a
private party sale. So they did submit that on April 17th of this year. So here we are. Um there has been some discussion among some of the boards that are present tonight um expressing interest in the
property or interest in the house um different angles on things. So we figured we call everybody here together and just have a group discussion and essence of time. Should I call to order? Yes. Yeah. If we have any other groups. Yeah. And also if there's
a historic call us to order. Okay. You called to order. Um, I will call the historical commission to order. Okay. I'm not sure I know everybody on all the committees, so maybe we could go around and introduce ourselves. Um, yeah. Is that possible? Do it quickly. Sure.
Okay. So, you're the prospective buyers. I think you know everybody else, right? Yeah. Okay. I don't know. I don't know everybody. Okay. Stephan, historical oppression. Carol Vick in historical and affordable housing. Ann Davis, historical
commission. What stand historical? Cheney, conservation, jump, you want any of these boards? No. Okay. Okay. That can't be true. Which plat which hat are you wearing
tonight? She's just just watching. Keeping watchable. Okay. You know us. We have names out so um so I I'm open to anybody who wants to sort of take charge with this conversation. Um I I think there is some
interest in from the I'll speak for the my conservation commission hat on. Um it is a nice 11th acre parcel of land that is sort of lies between many parcels of land that is already preserved um either by the town
or the conservation commission or through conservation restrictions. Um, so I I I wouldn't say it's necessarily a strategic p piece, but it's an interesting parcel that really could help with a with a corridor and just securing more open space up there.
There are some wetlands on the property, but it's not inundated with wetlands. Um, so there are at least at this point appears to be some buildable land there. Um, it's my understanding that the historical commission is interested in the house.
um and probably a larger homestead aspect of it, but I'm not sure where you are. We were all unanimous in our decision to uh enact the demolition delay bylaw. And you know, it's not something that we've ever
had to enact. Actually, I've been on the commission for 18 years and this was the first time this this type of thing has has come up. Um so it was unusual for us and generally people you know are interested in preserving and maintaining
their houses in festival to uh the older homes. So it it was it's it was a tough one for us and we were all very felt very strongly because of the associations with Amos Kendall. Um, Brian brought up something that I
thought was really interesting at the uh in the conversation about the landscape being important as well because of uh the associations with the farm. Um, you know, there's a lot of talk now in preservation about the heritage
landscapes and agricultural landscapes and this um was an important point I think in the discussions. Um, so the land a as well as the house is an important uh asset to
preserve I believe. Um, that's my uh thought. Did you want to add anything Brian to that? Oh, just that they're you know you're in communication with one another the landscape and the buildings. It's it's all part of the same package I
think when you think about the preservation angle. Yeah. and and Carol read um Amos Kendall's auto autobiography. Extremely boring autobiography. She slogged through it and there were a lot of references in his own
autobiography to hit the farm. Um which is interesting, you know, because a lot of people when they look back on their life, uh they reflect on where they began. And you were you were you said there references the stream, the stone
walls, the Yeah, they were very proud of Santa Brook because the entire property was well over 100 acres. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um so so that was you know felt very strongly about enacting the demolition
delay. Um I have not personally been in the house. Um I don't know if anybody here has been in. Um yes. been yeah um but you know I think I think that might be the next step um in
the process um and uh you know I I I did um I was contacted yesterday by the developer um who's
Oh yesterday. Um, and he was expressing an interest in possibly selling off the house as a separate lot. Um, carving that out as a as a and you
all might be able to speak to this better than I, but but there's an interest in carving out the lot. Yeah, we're cousins 11 acres and some old shelves. One of the reasons we bought properties instead of living here moving to dust and move build a house here. So
there is ability to be able to carve out a lot. So again, as you guys know, it's typical with old old houses. So we're open to some suggestions like how to do this, you know, how do we get the house preserve it? We heard that last name.
There's a lot of history about it. So I think maybe some sort of partnership or we how do we get to the point that we can make this house viable? At the same time, the last thing you guys want to do is buy a house and then then we all have to invest money to put into some sort of fashion that's you
know livable or I don't know if if the community wants to keep it as like a you know historical location where people can visit or think for that. So question is how do we get to that point? And I think we're open to we're all definitely going to
have discussion how do we get there? How do we make it happen? Because the last thing to do is just let our problems fall apart. But but I you all applied for the demolition demolition. Yeah. It was just standard stuff because the house is a tough condition. But if there's a way to
somewhat work together and save it, you know, it's it's always a conversation we're willing to have. I think originally when he's looking at the house, he didn't think it was able to be much prefer repair for costly putting so much money into it because you're going to to uh do work to you want to do it
properly. You just don't just do it, you know, TLC going to make a look back to where it back, you know, so you're going to be putting a lot of money into it and it's something we didn't have all this extra money to put into the house, you know, that's why we originally we just did the demo thing because we didn't
think was something we could fix. But it's something we can talk about and have a conversation and going through that process. But it's something we know, you know, we have to get together and go through that. You know, we haven't had the chance to do that right now, but that's going to be doing to sit
down and talk about the houses. Yeah, I'm assuming where it's bring some aspects of the era into place rather than let's put a like on the outside look. Maybe I don't know if what you guys think are does it need to expand circle on the outside and the
inside we don't care what happens with it. I don't know that's a kind of more of a conversation. How did it all work out? I think you mentioned the law. We're trying to figure out something now. You are you're not you don't you're not the owners at this point. You know this is part of the process. So one of
the things process that the community here gets a opportunity to do to go ahead and buy it. If they didn't want to buy it then we buy it. But that's what we're hearing to open this conversation dial to see what we can do, what we can't do in terms of what's an option, what's not an option. You know, is the
entire house historic? I don't believe because there's an addition in the background is something else altogether. But the salt box form the form of the front of the building and a salt box that going back, but not the addition in the back. Okay. Yes, you
want to get restored. There was a open shed facing to the west along there or pictures and if you want to restore that you could because there are pictures, but the addition now on there
is not historic. Correct. And is the land designated historic or is it just the home? I don't know enough about historic designations. This is the age tax. It's um the land the well the barn is a separate lot. That's a different part. Yeah. That's
been sold. They're not grouped in one lot. They were um separated. Um the land is is historic, but there's no uh restriction on the land. It's one of
I think is it 50 or 50 years has to run down the rule would have to go to historical commission. Yes. So it's a danger like so I'm talking about 15 years now. Yeah. We review um the
demolitions for anything that's older than 50. Okay. Uh Dana lets us know we uh we meet and because that it just doesn't happen very often. go through that.
Has there been any like review by any structural engineer or builder that says the house is able to be restored? No. Mr. Chen, that would be the first logical step.
Um what I I think should happen is that the voting war in the Curt seat at the moment determining whether or not to wave the town's rightly matching the
bonafide offer. Um the selectman should uh in my view uh say well there's quite a bit of interest uh from historical from conservation from perhaps affordable housing and therefore a
committee would should logically be appointed to hash this out also with a representative from the board of selectman. There are four committees that have an interest here and um issues
of um financing and how much of the land should be preserved or should it be preserved and and so forth. Um could be hashed out. Speed is of the essence here. Um
the uh town has 120 days from the point of notification uh which is about a little over two weeks ago uh to exercise its option uh to match the modified offer which was
$750,000. The asking price had been $800. The accepted offer was 750. And so you have first of all the select women who have this initial role of
wing for towns right are not at the moment now and then the historical commission uh the affordable housing we'll hear from shortly and the conservation commission uh with regard to Amos
Kendall uh the town has two claims to fame In terms of people, one is Ellen Swallow Richards and the other is Amos Kendall and he was a big deal. He was a member of Andy Jackson and and M Ben's cabinet.
He was postmaster general which meant that was a cabinet position in those days. That meant that he controlled patronage and when there was no civil service in those days, all federal jobs were patronage by postmaster general
because the post office employed uh the bulk of federal employees, not the army, which was tanky. He wrote probably over half of Jackson's speeches. He was one of Jackson's
so-called kitchen cabinet members. These were mostly non uh cabinet official cabinet people. He was involved so-called kitchen cabinet of of private advisors and so forth. And and in the
1830s and 40s, he wanted to get something done in Washington DC. You talked you talked to Amos Kenn as a sideline. He also co-ounded Galedet College for the Deaf. Okay. and which is still around and he's buried in DC. He
went to Dartmouth College as did several dusts but uh you know he's a big deal. He also was uh Samuel Morris's uh business manager and uh Morris invented the Morris code and uh correct he did
that in Washington. He he he was you know a moving shaker. Um and absolutely his autobiography talks about salmon brookke, talks about the cranberry blog which is still there and held by the conservation commission today. Um there
are points that you know um you you quickly reference uh with regard to conservation. The conservation commission has u about 48 acres across the street in three parcels. Um so almost half of the constable portion of
the Amos tendle farm is protected now. Uh what we don't have is the house and I agree with the idea that the land surrounding the house is part of it uh historically environmental and so forth.
Uh so you you have uh the opportunity to to preserve uh an important historical um feature and also a little bit of a sense of what the land was.
It's pretty pretty important. Thank you. Excuse me. Alan, you've been in the house. Yes. A fair assessment. I'm not I'm not qualified to do that. First thing I
would do is get somebody like move to a resto barn nearby barn and have him take a look at it and say and it could be somebody else but somebody like him and he would s have them say okay is this
restorable in a common sense economic sense. I mean, anything can be restored, but is it some or is it a is it a restoration or a replication? Yeah. Uh, you know, you want you would hopefully
have a home that if Amos Kendall came back and looked at it, he would recognize its appearance from the outside. inside in terms of what might be preserved, paneling, wide boards, uh, latch, door latches, and so forth. That
would be determined to be I believe Dana Barnes has already been in the house. Yeah, but he's not. So, so let me ask this question of the of the Has anybody from the historical commission been in the house? No. So,
we're at this point today and this is still and this is at least the way I think it is. It's kind of a conceptual prop, right? We're at the concept what what what would we like to do with it? Yeah. And when this came up, we were all kind of like, hang on a minute. This is an was an important figure in history.
This is where you grew up. You know, we didn't we felt just just with as as as Alan said with just having two two well-known residents like Alan Swallow, her name is Kendall, I put Richard Bird
in there, too. um an Arctic explorer and so and so I don't mean to interrupt but so conceptually right is the assuming we that the house is restoable and believe me just what you
can restore anything you need two you need two things and that's all you need time and money you can report you can and I've done this before this isn't the first replication that I've been involved in I've done them before I get it you can do anything with time and
Would the would the plan be that and this is concept right now is that we're going to that the town's going to buy that house. Okay. And that it's going to be restored or replicated and it to to
to whatever to whatever its original grander was. Okay. And then what h I'm just talking here. And then what happens after that? It becomes what what do we do with the what happens with that house after it's all fixed up and looks like it was originally John the affordable
housing you know if if it could be developed in a way that where affordable housing could make use of it and also contribute toward purchase that might be so is the plan that assuming okay everything's wonderful we go forward and
we renovate this thing and we uh get put it back to its original splendor. We're going to rent it out or we're going to sell it. What's Allan? This is not the place to hash that out. That's an important detail. This
is like that. That's the critical detail. What's the purpose of the home? Right. And this is something that in my view the committee would hash out and come and and then report to their coal
committees uh in particular the selectment um and and the uh county administr uh with okay here are the options. Uh and the options could range from no, this isn't something the town
should get involved in to uh a a partial purchase or sale or whatever and and the uses. Okay. What what would be preserved and so forth, but to try to determine right
now what is the best avenue, we can't we don't have the information. We we need to know the financial um possibilities. We need to know what the building its possibilities are and
so forth. And that is going to take some investigation and some time. I I I understand. But my my my question and my thought is that not so much at this point about time and money. We have all
the time and we have all the money and we're and this thing is going to be wonderful when we're done with it. Assuming that. All right. What happens to that house? It becomes a rental unit. John, is that what or be sold
or could be sold in the deed restriction? It would be sold with a deed restriction. I would say I'm not trying to speak to the entire historical commission. wipe from our minds any thought of turning it into a museum of some kind. Like that's going to be a
money pit and it's going to be hard to do if you think the Amos Kimble autobiography is dry and we're the historical commission thinking that like the average visitor that walks off the street has not had any interest in seeing this like we might kind of inherently understand the importance but
to try and attract a visiting public to it I would not recommend it. there's going to be all kinds of other infrastructure into that. I would do the same with like someone with a preservation easement that then stipulates to the private owner like who
has to then like take care of X Y or Z features that are identified in the course of the easement as being worth preserving and keeping intact and then it's kind of pushed off on the homeowner and the easement the responsibility of
the ement. Yeah. Um um and I I think its location lends itself more to housing in a museum because of where it's located. Um it's on the outskirts of Dunable. It's it's
it's um and I think there you know if you look there there there's a need for housing in Dunable in in terms of affordable housing. And um and this could add to the stock of
affordable housing. And I think, you know, a lot of people that are buying new homes don't necessarily want to live in a house with low ceilings and you know, but but as an affordable unit, it it it and if it were
restored as it is to a reasonable condition and sold that that quirkiness of the old h, you know, I think I love old houses. I I don't, you know, I live in one and I, you know, my husband ducks his head a
lot and stuff like that, but I think I think um that's the kind of thing that that that would be appropriate. And I I'm actually uh hesitant about talking about replica because when I've seen replicas of
historic houses, people are raising this the height of the of the movements. I know I'm getting into detail here, but they're inevitably taller than than the original houses and they're very different and they look different from
the outside because what happens is they look more executive homeland because they the height goes up when people build replicas. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Well, and that house is on an old field stone basement basically. It has the
well inside the house. So essentially it's itself. Um have Well, I think we need to have a structural engineer decide that that's in itself. Sure. Yeah. I too grew up in a house that's much older than this one
and I know the work my own parents put into that house to bring it up to normal standards and we're headed down a similar money pit path here. It's a good thing affordable housing because now with the rates so high so what people are doing is you know cho
these kind of projects so when you do an affordable house you want to sell someone you're looking like maybe 250 this I don't know what the rates now for affordable house are but it's probably maybe 250 so you say yourself this kind of goes to your point I think that's where we kind of hash it back more
buying for 750 we spend a minimum of 250 to put it into it now we're selling for 250 so it cost the town 750 to create which that's you know so we have to think hard how are we going to get this done
yeah the the um I cannot envision the town restoring or doing the work my understanding is that Habitat for example does do renovation restoration
or whatever in other words I refer to um housing. But um question I would have for them is would Habitat for Humanity
be interested in accepting this home uh to be restored slash replicated whatever is appropriate with some um guidelines um as to what the outside
appearance will be and so forth. Is this something that Habitat does? If so, that might be an ad. I really don't think Habitat is in the business of restoring houses because they work with
volunteer help, not professionals in most cases. So, you're not going to get them restoring. Actually, that house was built around 1780, so that's a really old house. And it's not going to get restored by volunteer help. Yeah, it may
it may not be a restoration, however. It might simply save what you can of the inside and um you know some granite steps and so forth. In which case perhaps they would be I would think that
one would need once one knows what has in hand then perhaps uh they might be uh someone to talk to perhaps not from what I can tell we simply don't
know we need to know more about the about the property Debbie excuse my extreme lack of knowledge on the town culture But where essentially like where are the funds coming from if the town bought it?
Is it something that's earmarked or that can't be used elsewhere? I'm just thinking of the backlash. Well, that's the other thing that we need to sort. I mean there are some money and we're now buying $750,000.
Yeah. The the um entire uh focus in terms of funding would be on the community preservation committee and the three uses there meaning affordable housing, historical
preservation and open space. Uh those are three and there are as you know perhaps there are three pockets uh of money that's in in the uh uh CDC you know budget um and then um you
have the undesated which can be used on any of those. So there's certain money that has to be used part that has to be used on open space. But then if you have a piece of open space that needs more moneyated, which is 70%. Uh is there is
there a significant amount of money in the CPC um funding funds right now? The answer is yes. John Simmons who is the chair of the CPC committee can fill you in on that. Right.
experience to certain things. Correct. But you should also keep in mind that we're not going to get a 100% match this year. We'd be lucky if we get 40 or 50. Yeah. Real estate market is down and the uh the legislature did not put the 20
million into the trust fund. So, we're really down. We're depending on the the real estate fees. It it it does sort of fill the different buckets though of historical, open space and affordable
which makes it interesting I think because there aren't many thing projects come up that have three different uh filled with three different buckets of what's the wish of the historic commission? Some of you are shaking your heads about some comments and not on
others. So, we have not we have not met to discuss this new um we we I was going to call a meeting for next Wednesday and actually hash this out a little bit amongst my colleagues um on the commission.
Um, I I as I said, I would love to see the house preserved somehow. Um, either through an owner that wants to fix it up and maintain it and live in it.
Um, the the Lans did did say that they would be willing to sell it at a market rate. um uh that would be um just for the land itself. So I think um so they'd be carving out that the house but you keep
the other potential discount like this as a lot as you're then so you wouldn't have to would anymore be much reduced value. So you like well we don't have to come up with so much money to repair it. So that's definitely an option. But you
you would keep the other two potential lots to build new construction on. I think he mentioned 325 yesterday for the for the lot and the land around the land just around the house and so we won't hold you to that number.
No. And and actually he was going to send me something and I didn't receive it today. So I'm I'm waiting to hear what he's suggest. So, um, how many years?
Well, we didn't even get into that. There's also a timeliness to this, right? So, they're the homes under agreement with these folks as Patrick, right? And the current residents, the Means are sort of owed an answer here because well, we have 120 days to give
an answer and there's a 90 day n month 9month moratorum. So, I mean, and the lers don't own the property. They don't. Yeah, it's part of the process that too. Buy the property in less than those prices. I mean 120 days can go by
quickly. Summer time. It's going to be summertime. Yeah. I think the demolition delay is up in September. Um what was the the number of acres that you would four acres four acres to go with the house
and it's 11 acres total that the house totally the exact par 11 acres that we to buy right now the four acres to go to wherever we work it out and and um Patrick did mention And also then he might put it on the market when
he acquires it in July to see who comes forward to buy the house and the four acres. I think that way too he wants to make sure somebody just knows what they're doing in the store, not just buying it and then sell the new house facing to the store that have problem.
That's what So I think one of the parts of that demolition is to see there's people out there that won't be able to buy it. So we kind of build that around buy two more storage. So that's something part of the process we do.
Um just to Jason, you and I talked about this a little bit ago just the technicalities of the 120 days and if it's not clear to me. It's not I have to do more research on it. So my question was if we we want to take the 120 days
to do our if we form the committee to do our due diligence are we by saying we're doing that does that commit us to going forward because we could go through this whole process for 120 days and realize there is just we we can
definitely do this or we definitely can't do this. And where does that put us? Does that um this is why I said that this would be a matter of urgency, shall we say. It's
not something you would approach casually. Your committee would uh get right on it and then the three the four boards that that committee represented would be part of it and you would not
mess around. Um and uh I think that yes, you could string it out. The town has 120 days to Oh, no. My intent is not to string it out. My question was if we say we are going to take these 120, we are
going to pursue it, but we turn at the end of our review. It turns out we can't do it. By saying we are going to we want to explore our right of first refusal. Does that obligate us to actually make the plans to purchase it
or is that 120 days in exploratory? If we decide we're going to purchase it, I know you have to have everything done within 120 days, but can you also take 90 days to determine like, oh, I don't think we're going to be able to pull this off. So, I'm sorry, we are
going to pass, but I think you can do that for sure. You can take time. We'll also have a town meeting in there someplace to appropriate the funds. Correct. Correct. Right. Yeah. So, how many time do you need for time?
Not not that long. For special, it's two weeks. Just tricky with all that's going on within the town. Like, it's a really Yeah, there are a number of pieces that would have to be put together,
but we can't do that tonight. It's all right. Somebody's going to sit down. some bodies that would sit down and hash it out. Uh take the facts that we have in terms of what money is available and so
forth. What do the committees feel and then um take get the information we don't have above all the condition of the home and what can be done with it, what it would cost and so forth and then
make some recommendations. Well, I agree. I think the first step is to see is the house I mean in concept yes it's absolutely worth it but is it actually worth the effort and money that would have to be put into it
certainly in concept to see it next week after town meeting and uh I guess we make that appointment through the same come to us directly He said you could come to them. Oh,
okay. Yeah. Talk to our train. But it's the kids and on their own. So they said they can go to us directly. My question is Oh, does anyone know if Caleb Clark is around? Is anything okay with Caleb
Clark? Do you know Caleb? No. Yeah, she's Kim's grandson. Oh, Caleb. Oh, Caleb. Oh, yes. Oh, I know he's trained in this field. He lives way up in doesn't he live in Ames or something? No,
he's Yeah. Um John Phillips does work um for me and he's in his late 70s. He would not be one that would want, I think, uh, take on the scope of this project, but I think he could give us a good honest opinion on
on the restoration as well as utilize. I think we could get several people to offer their suggestions. Is the house dry? Dry?
No. Carbon carbon as as for a while full of black went up for a black hole. Took some pictures and he said I could come out of there with three truckloads of stuff that I
could use to rebuild a building. But he said, "Unless you gave me a million bucks, I wouldn't even go through the door. Are the utilities still onto the house? Check. I don't think so. I think it's
been vacant for a while now. Yeah, it's been vacant, but it was even when someone was living there, the talk was over and had a fire in there and it was just Well, I think we got to reserve our until we see what what we're dealing with. Yeah. Until
after I don't think we can make assumptions. Yeah. Wear your mask and stuff on your side in case you roll and all that good stuff. Yep. You have to take it back to the studs and start over again.
So So really we have a few things to wrap up. It's it's is the select word appetite to Mr. Jamie's sort of cat bird concept there. Do we have any appetite to pursue this as a board? And then it's from that decision will lead to all right whom's
going to lead an or organized approach in a pretty expeditious manner in the next 90 days let's say to come up with a plan of whether we want to pursue the whole parcel part of the parcel working with the Larkin family to
see if they're willing to carve off part of the parcel and what the cost is to do that and how we're going to expend the funds to do that. And then once we have the home, whether it be the 11 acre or 4acre parcel, what happens then? And do we want to get into the
into restoring it for just a museum, which would be kind of a silly fashion, though I love historical building as much as the next person. I think that's interesting. But then like what is the end result? Like where do what what's the finish line here for us? Is it just
keeping the front facade? Is it just keeping a home that somehow could go to affordable and be an affordable unit amongst other homes in the area that are going to be two other lots that are going to be probably 1.2 1.3 just like Uncad way. And does that
check because it didn't check out on Unky Way and here we are now sort of in a similar place, right? Not quite. If you take a look at the homes around there, most of them are not 1.2 two homes that were built back safely. But there could
be two new construction homes there on the Yeah, but there would be eight or 10. But I mean, what's the town's appetite here for? Personally, I feel it's worth it to pursue and gather the information so we can make an informed decision on how to
go forward. Um, yeah, I'm going to be in agreement with that. I think we've got to get we got to get a more intelligent look at it before we can decide. I mean, black mold, I've been through that before. Um, but
nonetheless, I think that um I haven't seen the house. I I haven't seen it. I don't know whether or not it's even restorable. Someone needs to get us to that point and say, "Okay, you can do this and it's going to cost you
that." And we we need that information before we can go forward with it. But I I think to Leah's point, I think we we probably want to at least take that step. Although I don't know what that assessment would be like. Toby does a nice job. I don't Did he do the mun
barn? Toby. Yes. Toby. Yeah. Yeah. He's he's local, too. He's got he's got he was able to he helped he looked at the uh barn o over at the George's property too and that was um
helpful in that process as well. So do you have the contact to be able to pull him in? I do I can give him a call and try to arrange something for next week. I think after town meeting though what do you best think? It's it's got to be one of these highlevel pass or fail discussions that he need and and I do
know him from the being in the trade. um he's got to say yeah or no or whatever the qualifiers are and then at that point I think Leah we could engage in putting some groups together but I think that we've got to get us you know when when when Karen says the house has got
black mold in it you know I don't know that's black mold is really difficult to get rid of it's you got to ozone the house and all kinds of stuff and it's really there there is a point with these things where they're not restoable although you probably can do anything
with time and money. There is a point with them where they're not restoable because they've been left to deteriorate taken taken down right to you know studs and and then rebuilt. I mean the the old timbers are very resilient. They don't
they do not that old broke wood does not rot easily and there's a way to keep the framing and and the scale and the size and rebuild it. I think but you know I
think we got to think creatively. What do you say? Well, I'm saying well not necessarily. You can take stuff out from inside. You can take out the floorboards. You can take out still good unless it's totally
It isn't all It isn't all bad. No, some of it is good. I think I think the problem too is the weather has been coming in there too. So that's not helping anything else. Water getting into the house. When there's a well inside the house, it just opens and can't It's an open water well. Well, a
lot of a lot of houses have sistns in them from historic houses have sistns. That's very common. That's not an unusual. But if we take the home over as a town, we have to get rid of that. It has to go. It's it's a non-starter from the
building code. Um there's also um I don't want to get into details but there are you historic house houses can be um can be excused from certain codes and I don't know if that that one would be but
so the charge is then we have historical expert come in and tell us whether it's a pass or fail that's the first step with it is and I think we really trust um uh utilize his work. I mean it's very he he
he would be able to give us a good opinion I think. So are you meeting the historic commission you're meeting next week? Did you say you um I I I was thinking of bringing over a couple people that are
you know my fellow that I know has no skin in the game. He would not be doing the restoration but it would be interesting to hear his opinion. be interested. It's interesting to have each biases. Yeah. But you as a board are going to be meeting to sort of get
your collective thoughts on Wednesday. Yes. I was going to do it after. Yeah. Are we going to pay the consultant to do this or is it just someone going to volunteer to do it? this something that he will do pro bono just to go in and look at it or is he I don't think he
would be willing to do that pro bono but I I shouldn't speak for him. No, I mean I shouldn't expect anyone to do that either. Um I think probably there are one or two people who would do it um proono. I think also um if money were
required for for the Philistines for example, it's something that could be uh spent by the um CDC out of administering the funds and is that kind of kind of because of the condition we don't we
haven't we kind of looked into well so I don't know what condition the floorboards are. So where was the benefit just be hey let's all this in place and I'll check it out that's someone that has insurance and if they fall there's no claim no way liability something happens here you're
on your own understood you know to get those kind of waivers have to sign up on that town says they got to work out if they got a million bucks to buy rather they do this all day. It's a
big check as well. And I think simultaneously affordable housing probably wants to determine what in the the long-term plan what the goal is of that if there is a goal.
We're still in the concept stage. So, you know, we'd like to wear a hat where we see what could be done to the goals of Yeah, we know right now we know affordable housing is in the land. We know there's land there. Um we know
there's a house that may be demolished and just a few things saved up but and and because of where the money is. Um you know the
uh fellow was asked why they rob banks and because that's where the money is. Well, the bulk of the money here, yes, historical has has some quite a bit and uh conservation has some um but
affordable housing has even more. Yes, affordable housing also has two obligations coming. I understand that. Y I understand that. But at any rate, um certainly affordable housing should
be and in the mix right off the bat. I think if you're going to sell an affordable house, you got to work out what we sell because there is restrictions on income limitations. So when we've done our we did a 40B and done project I was selling houses that were costing me, you know, 400 to build
and it was sell 220. So with so it was just that's why the 40s you have the multiple houses offset all those costs. So I always sound makes a great idea still has a portal lab but you're still spending hey it cost 1.2 million an hour or something between the grounds. So now
the town's $9,000 loss to keep it. I mean it's fine. So that go anywhere goes back to you know I forget what the percentage is off the market value or whatever.
But somebody also has to want to spend that amount of money on a house that has low ceilings and basement. It may not be the most desirable discounted affordable housing
when they can get something brand new. Yeah. Options people. If I can, you know, I mean, just in this early conversational stage, I'm having some trouble wrapping my head around this as an affordable housing project. That said, I'm I'm also
wondering about two options that I feel like I'm hearing is um if if the house is determined to be in really poor condition, is there a way to pull out some historic features to keep
somewhere? Or is there a way to There was early in the meeting sort of a mention of putting something some easement on a property for sale to a private owner. Like are those two options that that we would want to talk
about or explore? Absolutely. Yeah. So, do we need a motion to create like the 473 ad hoc committee and what the makeup of that is?
Yeah. Is that what we want to do? And we essentially we've got to say it's going to suggest that it meets Well, I think or are we going to wait for the store? I think we want to get that initial review. I'd like to look before we Yeah.
before we leave. Yeah, it would be good to have a tour of the house first and and any of us any of the people here who would like to go. No, that says I'm saying I don't want to have random people wondering because if someone falls there and they
just too we don't need people walking in there. I mean there's one person going in and they're you know their insurance is fine but we just don't want anybody getting hurt either. So when I we do projects and someone's coming out with their venue or whatever, they have to have insurance showing that
there's potential that something happened that they so like just like a contractor that have insurance. So the town had a person doing or this guy person they had their insurance with that lens on then I think it's somebody want to hire for two and a half
what however long it takes to walk through a home whether it be this Toby folks or Jane Doe John Doe. We want to hire them. make sure they have proper insurance and they give us a written evaluation of what the integrity of the home is from a historic perspective and
whether it's something restorable. I'm not I don't know if that's the right word, but because we want to make sure a volunteer if they get hurt, they're a good volunteer is going to point at us to say I can no longer work because I fell through two floors of building for the town
volunteerism like the town's not really quite indemnified in that way if we would not that would be true, right? That would be true. So we want to pay them for there. So you know what, you know what it's like. So, you're not saying it's good in there, you know? You're saying it's not putting good in
there for anybody? No. I I walked with a builder and they checked with this builder checked with the town's building inspector and they said gave him a head nod of no, it's all got to go. You can save some front parts, but the home doesn't meet any
current building code. But that and that's, you know, with the historic sort of ability to show some flex. I don't know. I can't speak to that. Is that building marked right now? Does it have an X on it? No.
So, I think it'd be the CPC should hire someone to go in, give us a written report, and go from there. That makes sense. I think that's the charge at this point
is to get to that initial overview. And he's got one guy that said no. But you know, opinions are opinions. Everybody's entitled to opinions. Like something ground in some fact that says you can do this and here's why you can't do that.
And otherwise it's an opinion. I may go there and say, "Oh, this is wonderful." and someone else comes along goes well right we wanted to look that historic some of that opinion somebody who does
qualify restoration yeah I'm sure right no old houses in general don't need building codes that's and that's not really that's the point here we're looking to
restore it looking to meet codes right I mean that's not no one's moving in in its condition right now so and that'll lead to whether it's an affordable housing because that has to meet certain criteria along the way too
well I mean the affordable housing kind of in my mind sort of a longshot part of this but um would if you know if the town chose to exercise its right to purchase the whole thing. Would one of the available
lots be a potential location for Habitat to come in and build a house there? That's sort of what when I started thinking about this and speaking with some of you is like that was more what crossed my mind is doing a small
affordable building on one of the lots, not this house itself because this is going to be very particular in how it would be. Yeah. you know, even if the it was decided that, you know, the house pretty much has to go, but the restriction is that it needs to be built in like kind, you
know, um it's still it's going to be small and low. So, right something be a tough set or something that was maybe more in a soft box form. Yeah. Um that could be that as
well in my kind or something similar. Yeah. All right. So, let's uh let's go forward with that. Ann, we're relying on you to set this up with Toby's or John Phillips or Yeah, I I don't think John Phillips
would be I'm not sure he I think I think Tobias would be the better fit for a written report. Okay. Or a structural engineer if we're really looking for something like that.
Toby does it as a professional. Yeah. Yeah. So he's he's insured, he's licensed, he's got all that and he's got a lot of and I've got his contact details. Okay. So that's good. Um do we need to get um funding from CPC somehow?
Joan, what's the story? How do we do that? That's why I'm here. Just for just for administrative, I think we would have to call a meeting and vote. We have to have some kind of
an idea cost you give me the voice, you know, uh probably put in uh an application for funding. Yeah. Once you have an idea of how much it might cost and then we call a meeting. Okay.
[Music] Okay. I mean, I would think it would be I mean, I don't want to guess, but I think it would be I mean, I'm guessing on that. What do you think? I'd say between 500,000
$500,000. Yeah, that that's like something we can hang our hat on and use, right? That's like a big and then if we have the ad hoc committee afterwards, you could say, well, they they identified these issues with the house. They identified Yeah. uh
these positive uh aspects of the house that would make it more palatable to restore with these these issu can that can this person say this is what the cost might be down the road can
they project or they just going to tell us pass or fail what happens when you pull a card and find all the right there's something something you just can't know from you can't guarantee the circle level, but you can I think I think I
think what we want to get from this is is is it is it restoable? Yeah. Is it salable? Is it can it be built to a safe housing unit at some cost, right? Like to someone that we can, right? Like
what we can afford is a lot different than what you know Jeff Bezos you know from Amazon we would store it to, right? like that dunal restoration might be different than what someone with unlimited funding might be. So I think we got to understand what the end cost
would be. Okay. All right. All right. So All right. Keep in touch. I will. Yeah. We're going to meet next Wednesday and um and I will I will contact.
Okay. Ask. Perfect. All right. Thank you all for coming. All right. Next up, um, Kennedy Property, 346 High Street, land management plan, the conservation restriction. So,
Did you have a question? All right. What do we got here? This is um just need authorization to sign the um for the GI to sign. Okay. The land land management plan and then
all of you sign the conservation restriction. Yeah, we're good for the Kennedy parcel. It's been in motion for a while. Yeah. I move to approve the conservation restriction from Robert E. Kennedy to the town of Dunstville
Conservation Commission for the purposes of conservation in passive recreation pursuant to Mass General Law Chapter 184 section 32 on a 26.26 26 acre parcel of
land lying between High Street in Salonbrook located on assessor's map 15-2 and portion of 15-4 and described in exhibit A and B1 of the conservation restriction and
further approve the land management plan for this same property and authorize the chair to sign on behalf of the board. Second. Further discussion? Negative. All those in favor? I I I
Yay. Okay. Do you have that document or shall Is this here? Yeah. One's the B, the other's the CR. And Leah, there's an extra space for you to
Don't touch out yet. Wait, tell me 57. Time freezes. [Music] I have I have Al. I have a question. It's not about dust, but past Charles George's that landfill right on the left hand side. Are they
just logging in there or do you not know or is that a subdivision that's going in there? Well, uh that's El Carand. I think that's been sold. I believe it runs over to behind Duff's garage and so forth. Big piece of property. Oh, all al
Oh, so that's connected. I believe it. I believe that's the case. I'm not sure. What are they going to put houses in there? Um I don't know. Uh but I I understand they have um I I doubt that it's going to be
donated to Minnesota. All right. Good job. Thank you. I'll have a break. the logging that's going on. I do heavy timber work and I always just thought maybe they were harvesting but here taking me out to determine whe
which I don't like help I I imagine it's in effect but I don't know But knowing Kingsboro and knowing a few other things about it, I guess is it's destined
for not trees cuz we know what's happening right across from T's garage next to the parking area. That construction going on there, that's an Amazon warehouse. I have heard
that got tanked. But anyway, we digress. I heard that got tanked. It could be. So, well, they built one in Marramac. Amazon. I don't know if you've gone to the tree and seen that that they built that for Amazon.
Amazon has passed on that. It's a I don't 800,000 square foot warehouse and they built it for Amazon. Purple. All right, let's move on. Focus. Okay, church reached out. It's been kind
of an ongoing conversation, too. Um, I think it was special legislation adopted in 2021 to allow for this to Yeah. And so you have the two maps that identify the property they're interested in purchasing it.
Um the price they are interested in paying is $7,500 for it. So um that's the question in front of the board. Yeah. Right. So this was four years ago
that this went to the town to approve the sale of it because it was considered part of the town common I think. Oh that's right. So it had to be to the legislature to the legislature and Tom meeting voted to approve sale as
well. Um we did that at town meeting as I was looking the other day. Right. Did we have a specific dollar amount? No, we didn't. There was no dollar amount emotion or anything. Right. No, it just allowed the right to Yeah. just says the
border selectment of the town at the time you are this um town of Dunville may convey by sale easement license or otherwise to the evangelical church of Dunville or a portion of the area of land approximately
8,274 ft and it goes on it doesn't pay I was just curious I couldn't find that I mean this thing's been around a long time long it's older than I am I just think we It's historical. Yeah, it is like me. I like that line. Just
like me. I'm restoable. All right. So, we good with going forward with this? Yeah. Let's just move move this along. Yeah. I move to approve the sale of an area of land of approximately 8,274 square feet as shown on a plan
entitled plan of land 516 Main Street Dunable Mass prepared by Norse Norse Design Services Incorporated to the Evangelical Church of Dunable for $7,500 and to authorize the chair to
sign all documents necessary neessary to complete the sale. Second. Any further discussion? All those in favor? I I I Okay, good. Um appointment of Dawn Door
to the parks commission. So, she's not here, but she's she knows she's in she's okay with this, right, Don? Yeah, Don is currently on she's been on the rec commission for quite some time, right? Okay. So, um she is aware of what's entailed in what? Yeah.
Right. Okay. Yeah. In the parks. They often meet together, I think. So, who left? Uh Don Fber moved. Yeah. So, she um but yeah, she's um in parks already voted to appoint her. Okay.
I move to appoint Don Door to the parks commission for a term to expire June 30th, 2026. Second. All those in favor? I I I Okay, that's it. No minutes.
Town administrator report. Anything other than budget, budget, budget. Jason, what do we got? MCO is meeting with ZBA. That's a nice step in the right direction. Their sign is up. So, it is happening. It's tenatively scheduled for
the first Thursday and I think that's the fifth. Okay. For the MCO cottages on in June ten. Yeah. Tenatively June 5th. So, Thursday coming up. Um yeah, budget it's
happening, a town meeting's happening. We had a briefing last week. Um a remote briefing that I thought went okay. Was it well attended? Um 21 to 27 people. Total 27. Yeah, 27 total. We have been
for a little bit. It was good. Some good questions and stuff. Yeah, it was the most attended of all the events that we've been having for this. It was the one that was the most heavily attended. Yep. It's getting some good views on YouTube as well. Oh, good. Um, we finally got that planning
assistance grant for $20,000 to help us with the open space and w plan. Yay. Still trying to close the um get get everything uh fully executed with the grant contract and everything. But uh though, an update on we did get
it extended for another three years, correct? So, we have a little more time to work on this. We have some breathing room. Yeah. Yeah. We had our first public meeting for Dunville Community Power last night here and uh we have
another meeting tomorrow at the library. So, that's that's going well. That roll out I think is going well. Do we do we have just a question, right? I think the roll out was like a 10. Do we have a lot of people opting out or do
we not know that yet? I don't know that yet. There were about I don't think it starts until June. June June. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, okay. Right. Right. But there's there's a deadline for you to opt out and the opt out when this has gone out and all that. How many people were there last 10? 8. Yeah, I'd say
eight. Yeah, it's the deadline to opt out started already. Well, the the opt out notice went out. I don't know what the deadline is off the top of my head, but everyone's received a notice and yeah. Yeah. Um the the programming aspect of that
mini grant we got from Greater Whole Health Alliance has started. So you may have heard the Zumba music underneath us tonight. We had Zumba here tonight and we have um we have bar another exercise class on Mondays and then we partner with Teley
Farms um to do like a mini farmers market at the senior lunches and the first one was last week. So yeah, that's that's a great comments. I'll selfishly say that
um Townsen is hosting an NVP Nasha River Wershed Association plug forum uh tomorrow. It's virtual from 2 to 3. Um you're welcome to sign up. I sent it out to most of you guys here. Um, but it's
through an MVP product and helping the town of Townsen, but open to any towns in the area that are part of the MVP, you know, FEMA funding, yada yada yada. Um, and that it's an interesting setup in that town and their work with
MRPC as a rural community. Oh, really? Yeah. which might be something for us to explore at some point because it's I think getting more and more challenging for us to say we're you know we're not quite a bill Ricka we're not quite a Toukesberry we're not a LOL but I think we're a little bit closer to a town or
to an Ashby Ashraham in terms of our rural proximity and sort of setup well we're sort of outliers in a lot of these groups we're part of Nimog and we don't fit in there we're part of Middle Sex first district and we're not really we're sort of a very different time for
those some of the grant opportunities through MRPC and their leadership has um I've been pretty impressed with some of the things they've got going for towns in as well as some other towns in that area. Not that it's perfect by any means, but um there's some funding out there.
So, you know, get on give you up. I've hit on a couple already, so it's interesting work. Cool. All right. Is there anything else? There being nothing, is there a motion to adjurnn? So moved. Second. In
favor? I I I The time has stood still on that. Yeah, Maya is coming in, too. Nice.