Good evening everyone. I'd like to call the meeting to order. Will the secretary please call the role? >> Anna Brown >> here. >> Timothy Cummings >> here. >> Antinetavola >> here. >> Jamie Falco >> here. >> Lewis Figueroa >> here. >> Lorie Herrick. >> Lee Wu Hung. Wilbur Pan
>> here. >> Maryanne Tenus >> here. We have a quorum. Please rise for the pledge of >> allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands. One nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice
for all. >> Okay. The New Jersey open public meetings law was enacted to ensure the right of the public to have advanced notice of and to attend the meetings of public bodies at which any business affecting their interest is discussed and acted upon. In
accordance with the provisions of this act, the East Brunswick Board of Education has caused notice of this meeting to be published by having the date, time, and place thereof posted at the Board of Education offices located at 760 Route 18 East Brunswick, New Jersey. Written notice was also provided
to the Sentinel, the Newark Star Ledger, the Home News Tribune, the Alternative Press of East Brunswick, and the Municipal Clerk of East Brunswick. All board of education meetings, with the exception of executive session discussions, are videotaped for later broadcast. It is the policy of the board
of education that videotaped meetings are not edited for any purpose. Individuals who speak at the board's public meetings should be aware of these videotaping rules. Okay, we are moving right into our finance committee of the whole 2027 budget discussion.
>> Okay. Um, so we're going to follow the same format that we did last board meeting where there's a number of slides. We'll talk through them. Any questions? Uh, any comments? Um, and then after this portion, we'll go to the tenative budget. Um, before we get into
the slides, I just want to remind the board the tenative budget is a starting point. um it has to be balanced. Uh as we go along this process, as changes are made, um we'll incorporate them into the budget, run them through the uh
Department of Education budget software to make sure all the edit checks are taken care of uh and eventually, you know, end up at a final adopted budget. So again, this is just the starting point. Uh you know, there are some things that we still have to get through
um and and we'll see that as we go through the slides. Um, so our goals for tonight, I just wanted to codify this a little bit for the board. Um, I was thinking about what have we been
doing? You know, this notion that budget only starts during this particular period is not necessarily a good one because it's not sustainable. It does not begin and end with the May adoption. there are things we have to keep going and keep doing. So, ever
since I came on board in December, I thought to myself, what have I been doing with the team and what have we always said? Um, we wanted to be clear and we wanted to be strategic. So, everything we've done has been
intentional so far. And is it slow maybe? Yes, it's slow because we're thinking through it. um thinking through it because our one goal is really to protect core instructional
quality. You know, I was going through just if I were to I the last two years cuts have been made from academics more than anywhere else. If we have excellence in academics, athletics, and the arts, there needs to
be a balance. There isn't. We've cut at least and I stopped calculating over $3 million so far from academics in the last two years and that does not equal the cuts made in the arts
or the cuts made in athletics. Right? So if our tagline is academics, athletics, and the art, that should be our northern star or north star, whatever that should be the focus. So for me, I've been really focused on
really pushing ourselves and challenging ourselves to take a look at everything top down. How can we do things better? I did not want to come to you and say this is the deficit we have. Therefore,
we need equal tax hikes to meet that. I knew that that would not be acceptable to me. So for sure, we weren't going to come to you with that. So the team, they've heard me since I got here what the vision was and we've been working together as a team to do that and the
work still continues because in order to do that there are certain things we need to know and as you know we need to know what the state is. That didn't come out until a couple weeks ago. Then you know that then you have to go back and forth. We still also don't know um the state tells us you know what's the maximum
what's the cap for the tax. We don't know where we're going to land because if we do then we can plan accordingly. So you start to go through for one point for every 1% 1.5 million. So what would that take? What would that take? And then it's so difficult when you're not
looking at big buckets. You're not looking at $100,000 buckets or $200,000 buckets. You're really looking at shaving 5,000 here, 10,000 here. So the work is a lot.
Um, and so making datadriven decisions has eased the work for us a little bit. So asking what's the why and how do I know where is it? Show me. You can I'm constantly I wake up, I see numbers. I go to sleep, I
see numbers. So that work has been going on across the board and we really wanted to communicate transparently. We're trying really hard. I know, you know, I hear people think we're hiding something, we're not. They say all sorts of things, but you know that's not true,
but whatever. Um, we really want to try to communicate transparently and um, we know that this is our first time and I I'm speaking for Joe now. This is our first time. We have a lot of work to do and I know that every time we spend here and we talk to the board and we meet and
we we learn, we take something away and we're constantly um, adjusting and trying to do better. Um it's just unfortunate the timing is very tight. But I think for me my promise to you the community is that even when we get to
May because whatever we do today in terms of tenative budget it really is a starting point. Doesn't even really matter. We just have to start from somewhere. So we can build to get to where we really should. And I did go back to look at the last two years to see was there any difference between the
tenative budget and the final and there was every single time. So I just want to again ease that level of we're not voting in anything that is permanent today. We've been very consistent in even our words and how we've been really
communicating and and speaking about budgets because we know it is you know people's livelihood. It is people's taxes and so we we want to be mindful of it all. So, one of the things that we've been doing
that has us all stressed out because I know you all said to you all look stressed out. Should we be stressed out? No, we will be stressed out. Joe would be stressed out is to evaluate is evaluating programs for
effectiveness. Right? So, if you don't the whatever data you put in is the data you get out, right? So, um, having metrics that's objective and and having defined effectiveness before something gets going for us to evaluate
the program is proving challenging, right? Because we've not always done it this way and here we are. So, we're trying to evaluate programs for how effective they are and making sure that we're able to measure it in a way that makes sense. So, that has taken a lot of
our time. Um, we're looking at everything, right? everything that makes up our whole organization. You think about it, that's what we're doing. Um, programs does not just speak to what's happening in the classroom.
You we say programs and people automatically think, oh, that must be the classroom. No, we're also thinking about things that happen outside the classroom. um all the little facets whether it is the people who work in the
back end who keep our things going from people who are helping us be um East Brunswick right um all our extracurricular things we're looking at um instructional programs we're looking
at little pieces that make up things that we do not know or clubs like there's so much all of it we're looking at and we're looking at that for effectiveness and where we can we're not pushing some agenda where it's like you must meet this or not even when it
doesn't make sense and that's hence the difficulty right but we're streamlining areas that we see that they're overlapping initiatives if we have I don't know like edtech for instance we have this education technology program that does the same thing as this and this and that we're streamlining to say
which one do we prefer and which one is doing the work, where's that data, where do we see, what are people using, and then working to cut the one that we don't. So, we're really kind of shaving off rather than just indiscriminately cutting things to balance the budget. And more so, and I think this is um the
biggest challenge for all of us as a community, we have to plan proactively for long-term sustainability. This is not sustainable. This every year we're here. This is not I cannot lead this way. We cannot lead
this way. Our kids deserve better. We deserve better. We can do better. So we need to start to think about decisions that we're making now that have consequences later, right? So we need to forecast out and see if we cut it now, what does that look like? You're next
year and the year after. That's where we are. The academics, for instance, is cut to the bone. You're beginning to see kind of like the tension there where people are demanding more and we're unable to do more. We've
cut our coaches, instructional coaches, specialists, supervisors who are closest to kids or staff who closest to we've cut that in the last two years. Of course, we're feeling things or that's how you're feeling the we're all feeling the pain now where you know it takes
forever to get data from here like oh this person used to do it but they're not here anymore but we did not automate it. So I'm still looking at things like that. What things do we have that we can automate that can help us do better. We have a lot to do is what I'm saying. So,
um, as we have this conversation today, as we go through what we're going to go through, I just want us to keep that in mind. Thought it was really important that I opened this way. All right. SL. So, the other goals tonight, um, of
course, open discussion on the budget, uh, a recap, uh, budget reductions to close the deficit, tax levy, and, uh, tenative budget. So the first slide um is where we're at.
Um when we compiled everything, the projected appropriations, that's the expenditures for the general fund, it totals 214 million. The projected revenues uh which comprises fund balance, budget of fund
balance, state aid, taxes, the miscellaneous uh income that we bring in is 28 million leaving us with a deficit of 5.5 almost 5.6 million. It's important to note that the projected revenue, as the asterct
indicates, that includes a tax increase of 6.16%. So um as we go through the slides the the deficit amount uh will be referred to again and uh the impact of the 6.16%
will be detailed. So if there's any questions on this summary sheet you happy to try to >> I I just want to clarify that that's a the 6.16% is what's being proposed. It's not what we are >> yes >> confirming unless that's what everybody
wants. Okay. that that's what's in the tenative budget. >> Yes, that's how far we can go, right? That's the >> it's not to the tippy top, but it it's the vast majority uh due to the 2% um >> cap cap plus the health benefit
adjustment um to the tax levy that we're allowed. And I also want to be clear that even with the increase, we will still have a deficit of 5.5. >> Yes.
>> How high can you go? >> I believe we have another about $600,000 that we could increase. Um, and this goes into the complication of the Department of Ed budget software. as we input numbers and we make revisions,
those cap adjustments recalculate. So, it's not a matter of just, oh, you know, reduce this line item and then you're done. It's like you hit one screen and then you have to, you know, go into 10 other screens for the system to recalculate everything. So, it's a
domino effect. >> Antonet, >> thank you. that proposal, make sure I say that correctly, that proposal for the 6.16%. Would that be with with the conversations that we had the other day
with increasing fees and removing free and reduced? Um, >> so this is asis with no adjustments. >> So when we get to the next slide, a couple slides in, we'll we'll talk about the reductions uh that we've talked
about in the past and we we found some other items. uh it does not include any increases to fees uh because we haven't determined that right at the last board meeting um you know there was a couple things asked you know so we're trying to pull that information together um to
present so the board can make a decision but I I think it is important say fees we raise it $10,000 it brings in an additional $10,000 in revenue right now it would decrease the deficit by that
10,000 or the board would say keep that deficit, you know, keep on finding ways to reduce and that $10,000 needs to go directly to tax relief. Right? Those are the two options. It's either going to help close the deficit or keep the deficit but
reduce the tax burden. >> Make sense? >> No, it makes sense. I just want to be clear because >> raising everything everywhere and you're getting less >> is not what I'm signing up for. >> Thank you.
>> So, so just to be clear that the deficit we have right now is considering a 6.16% and then that remaining 5.59 deficit has to be made up operationally somehow. So your two options are to find other
revenue or reduce your expenditures. >> Okay. >> So in order to close that $5.5 million um this is not an all-incclusive list.
This is a list um that we can present um and not you know violate anything uh that we we can't violate as far as negotiations contract uh or or having people find out that they might be
impacted um because of this. You know there there's a process there's a proper way to go about doing that and we need need to be mindful of that. So, uh, reduction of contracted services by $83,000. Uh, outsourcing personnel, non-certificated staff, that would
result in $783,000 in savings. Uh, there are two retirements, um, a part-time secretary and a full-time secretary. Those positions will not be replaced. We talked about the shared service agreement. That's $762,000.
That would reduce um that deficit. And then we are going to be allocating uh costs to child nutrition uh lunch aids and custodial services during the lunch uh period uh to the child nutrition department and that would result in the
general fund saving $43,000. I'm sorry. Any any questions on that? >> Have to dislike my questions. >> Okay. So if the 5.5 almost 5.6 $.6 million. That's the starting deficit. We
have reductions through uh I called it May 19th of 2.5 >> March 19th. >> Um did I say May? I'm I'm I'm trying to fast forward through through the trauma. So >> yeah. Um >> so March 19th, that's you know 2.5
million. Since last week we have identified another $600,000 in reductions. Those uh reductions include uh reducing archiving expenses, supplies, contracted services, uh consolidation of software that we use,
uh copier usage. Um so, you know, as we continue uh we we are going about this trying to figure out what we can reduce that has the least amount of impact. >> Yeah. >> Um and make us efficient. So, uh, so the
result is as of today, we have a deficit of $2.4 million that we still have to close. >> Any any questions? >> Question. Can I go back to the retirements? Those are two secretaries we have there. >> Um,
>> and that's that does not include breakage with our professional staff at all. No, >> that's a separate issue. >> Yeah. Unfortunately, we do not have uh too many staff members that are retiring overall. >> Okay. >> Um right. So, >> okay. Thank you.
>> So, we are now going to re uh replace this um one part-time, one full-time secretaries. where the remaining secretaries can handle all the job to make sure guarantee the operation be on the normal procedure at on the normal
route >> for now I'll say yes is that optimal no but I need to close the budget and I'm still really trying really hard not to get to programming but I could say for
the next 2 million I mean we're already to the bone >> the next 2 million And I'm going to have to look at personnel of some kind. There's no way I'm getting I can't cut any more supplies. I just don't have it. I'm going to keep looking for things that are overlapping that I didn't get to. But I'm going to start to look at,
you know, everything like classes or courses where we're running with six kids, 12 kids. Like I I have to start to then balance that out. I'm not saying that every class that's not 26 is going to get looked at, but I want to
again evaluate that and take a look at what kind of savings can I get there. It might not be a reduction of staff per se. It might be okay. So maybe now I'm saving money in sixth period assignments because now I have like so there's there's a lot more to to get to. I don't
want to speak because I'm not there that right. I don't want to I don't want any emails. Please >> go ahead. >> It's fine. >> Um, no, it's okay. I won't email you. I'll just email Joe. >> Email.
>> Joe is my BFF. Um, wouldn't it be responsible when you're in a budget deficit to start removing the programs that don't have high enrollment in them? I mean it's not ideal and it's not optimal but when you're looking at an entire scope if there are only eight
kids who are interested in a specific course that's offered always only eight kids why wouldn't we consider that something that maybe we could turn into a club or >> so again even with clubs it comes with its own things right but absolutely
you're right that's why I brought it up because I'm looking at it and I want to be fully transparent that I'm looking at it but when you start to look at our secondary courses is those are the courses they become more specif you know more um uh >> specialized
>> specialized right that even some of the stations for instance like if I'm if the stations that is set up for them to do what they need to do because it's that specialized I only have eight stations and that's why I have eight kids well that makes sense so I have to then evaluate is there room for me um to buy
more stations to fit in there so that I can have more kids and even that like those types of things is what I'm talking about right then I could do that but for sure that's exactly where I'm looking at it um and then you know certifications too becomes a huge
consideration when we are looking at the um secondary but absolutely um I I I want to do that there are a lot of electives we have a lot of electives we are funding a whole lot of electives more than we are our core And while
that's good, uh, a variety of it is really good. I'm talking I think we have upward of 70 electives or more. So look, everything is up for to take a look at. So for spec specifically for
electives, >> yes. >> If for example, if they're offering let's say 10 10 electives and you're asking students to choose in in number order of the elective that you want first to last. If the first five electives seem to be the most popular
and those are the ones you see repeat being repeated, wouldn't it be beneficial to offer more of those courses versus the additional five that people are just picking because they have to pick an additional? Yeah, possibly if you're thinking about Hughes and maybe some Hammer, but for SE but
for high school it doesn't quite operate like that. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Um because if you think about 10, you you're going to look at 10 electives per core area like what are the science electives? What are the you know so it becomes more and then some of these things is what makes us competitive,
right? Some of these areas makes us competitive. >> I love the high school electives. I want I said that night I wanted myself back into those. How much do we love it though? >> I don't know. How many kids are signing up? And that's the thing. I know that you said eight kids fit in there. So
that I'm talking more about a class that can fit the full the full enrollment and they're only getting eight interested students. Yes. That's those are the classes I was talking about. >> Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. Okay, Anna,
>> would you be able to provide that information um as to the enrollment? What's the lower end of the enrollment um for particular classes, electives, we're talking or even non-electives?
>> I could, but why? >> Well, again, >> I mean I mean you're doing that for us, right? to look at. So I I don't know if it's Are you saying can I show that? I'll publicly pull it out. What? What? I'm not sure. >> So >> yeah, go ahead.
>> I woke him up. >> Well, he's got two. >> So right now on the tenative budget, you So let's just assume that you have the two 2.4 and that's the deficit. If you if the taxes aren't at 6.6, but they're
lower. It'll be a greater deficit. You guys are going to have to make decisions um about programming cuts. >> What I would suggest is I wouldn't get into the details now because some of these are very very specific areas, especially if they're in
>> um areas that are um not the core subjects. And so I don't want people to be harmed or or alarmed that they're that their position is being talked about publicly because we'd have to rice them and do that. >> Exactly. So I think that that's something for that's a coming attraction
for you to present to the board in close session ringing the employees that could be adversely affected. >> Right. So just building on what uh an Twinette was saying. Um I know I had asked this question last year if there's
a minimum number of students required to run a class. >> Oh that's a good question. >> Yeah I thought it was a good question. I I could never get it answered, which is why I'm asking it again >> because it depends on the course, it depends on the level, it depends on the building, >> right?
>> And it depends on certifications. Like it's not a one-sizefits-all. I guess that's probably why you've not gotten an answer. >> Oh, I know why I didn't get an answer. That wasn't >> answer. But yeah, I can I I can I can give you a thumbs up.
>> There are state there are certain state laws >> that dictate class size. So for example, there are certain special ed things. >> There are in the lower elementary grades, there's maximums. >> That's right. >> So it's really more maximums, not minimums that you'll find in in state
law. Um but many districts are looking at this. I mean I know districts for example um when you get into the uh it happens a lot like um you get into world languages I'll just give you an example and you'll have a world language with four subjects and then you have honors
and AP when you start getting into world language four honors and AP very often they start combining those classes into one class where the teacher is kind of teaching the curriculum but it's go some of it's going to the honors kid some of it going to AP because there's not
enough kids to run it. you you might have nine kids total if you did it separate. >> Okay. >> And it's just not efficient. So, I think that that's something you guys are going to have to judge >> how do you how do you deliver, you know, quality instruction? And those are things that you you're going to that's
why you have a superintendent. That's Thank God you don't have me making those decisions. >> Okay. But did that make sense? I I'm just would like that looked at if there are courses that are um traditionally
very low enrollment for whatever reason. I mean other than you know you can only fit >> right >> 16 kids in that class because you have 16 stations or something. I would just be curious if if there are um instances at no matter what what
level >> I'm looking at that >> if you if you could. Thank you. Perfect. Thank you. >> And if I so because I connected with the board. >> Yes. >> And just if I may Anna add to that. I think where Anna's question is coming from is
this is a tentative budget. Yes. But if we are to not go with such a high tax increase, we want to know at what cost. So what are the things that are like it's a balance. So what are the things that we would be giving up? Is it worth it to us as a community? Right.
>> Yeah. >> Okay. And Yeah, I got it. >> Yeah. >> So, some like I'm telling you right now, if we're not if it's more than if it's
what what is it the number um I know it's like a for every 1% is what 1.5 and this becomes 3.9. There's no way I'm not cutting personnel. It's just not happening. I can't get to the number. If it's plus if
it's four% that's three million added on to two that's five I there's there's nowhere else um to to so it will but it would be then what can we as a community bear what is important to us what can we bear to cut
to cut or live without >> um then that then we can have the conversations but sever definitely I think once we know and we have a tenative budget because it's a starting point. I think April 9th when we're talking to you, we're back here for a board meetings at April 9th.
>> I'll be telling you what the possibilities are because these are the buckets of money I can get there and then we start to have the conversation about. Well, no, this is important to us. If not this, then what? >> Yes. >> Lori and I were speaking today and she said something that I thought was really
impactful. I'm gonna just quote you >> because I wanted you to say it, but you're not saying it. Um what the community has to understand what is the return on the investment because obviously we're investing in the children right so whether it's athletics
arts academics it's what are we willing to do to get it back but are the families are the children getting it when we are offering these savings right so if you really I think Joe and I spoke
about this during the close when I figured out that percentage It's pretty much not closed. Not closed. Small group. >> Small group. Thank you. Okay. They know what I Matt. Matt. They know. >> Have they made it to this part of the
meeting? >> She's she's coming for your job. >> Um for for households within my tax range, right? It would be sacrificing a fancy cup of coffee a day
to be able to continue offering the our children what they have right now. For some families, it might be two cups of fancy coffee a day. I want us to understand that we want to make sure that we're not burdening the families or
the children first before we start doing this. Yes, ma'am. >> And oh, Jamie, go ahead. >> I just have some um like a couple questions. Have we explored AI um to be
utilized as far as um various services that may be non-instruction related? because in other industries outside of education, we are moving to using virtual technology um not just not only to replace people
but to consolidate positions and allow our people to work more effectively. are I'm not suggesting that this is a now fix, but um my first question is is is that legal um to explore that Matt um to
use AI for things like school natury stuff? And then number two for our administration, is that something we can perhaps look into? >> Um is it >> we don't have a policy yet. >> Is it legal to you? it is legal to use
AI to try to streamline functionality. Um I think it's still burgeoning in terms of in in all areas um when you're dealing with you know replacing uh you know writing letters and things like that. Um but there's a
cost in it. So you cannot use chat GPT that that I can assure you a couple lawyers have used that in the country and it hasn't worked out well for them. There are some townships in New Jersey that are actually utilizing AI um for various purposes including checking for
student plagiarism. There are current contracts in place. So um I was just wondering what our opportunities were with that. >> Yeah, you have to look into it. There's different forms, but usually to get a closed AI system, >> which is which is >> what you're talking about,
>> those are fairly expensive softwares. And as you probably know with software, you can't buy the software anymore. What you do is you buy a license and it's a reoccurring cost and it's not inexpensive. I can tell you just from our experience. Um
and the thing is is that the one thing that you always have to be mindful of is when you're in you're a people business. I mean your your product is education and the way you do education is people. um you're not you're not producing
revenue sources, you're producing highly educated children who will go out become highly productive uh adults. But the one thing that folks have to remember is that there are certain aspects of education supervision. So, you know, AI
can't supervise. Um there's a lot of things that you can't do. Like for example, every one of your buildings has front office staff. Well, you say we could get a secretary to do. You can't. That front office staff is basically the safety valve. They're the ones who's at
the front door checking in. You you guys have those they call them man traps, but the double doors >> where they get >> security vestibules. >> Security vestibules. But I call it the man trap. Um but so you know those all
those require human beings to be able to to judge that >> certainly. But >> you can definitely look at it. On the flip side, if we look at the district as, you know, we know we're excellent. Um, if we look then to fill our deficits with revenue generation, what
opportunities do we have to use AI to create proprietary curriculums that we can then sell to other people and maybe make our own literacy programs, for example? >> I mean, I think um well, just because I've spent I did this work in my previous district and I was the AI
person. >> I'm so glad I asked this. Thank you. >> Um, we do not have an AI policy yet, but at the next policy meeting, you'll see something there, right? There's definitely room for us to use AI to be more efficient, for sure. And um, but
there's also the FURPA piece, which is a huge piece, right? So, there's the education and professional development of that, making sure that we know and we need to have a vision statement in terms of what AI is going to do for us. Like, we know AI categorically cannot replace people. We're doubling down on the fact
that we're a people business and AI cannot do that. But can AI help us streamline some of our administrative work and that would be awesome. Can I get someone who can create my own chatbot for me so that we can I can go on the website and ask questions and people don't have to look for things
anymore. Like I just need this and my little AI my bear can you know >> can can really do something for me like that. >> Trademark that. That's a great idea. >> See I need to trademark that one. Um now public meeting. >> So we do have
>> answers your question. >> Yes, you know we could do something there. I think definitely there is an opportunity for it and I cannot wait to dig into that for sure. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I I also um just want to uh point out that we may be overestimating the
benefit that adopting AI will bring to the school district. So, number one, um, and to, um, Matt's point, these, um, AI products are licenses. They're they're sold on a subscription basis. The business model for that is to crank up
the subscription fee as time goes on. And you have two choices at that point. either dump the system and replace it with humans again or just go along with the uh w with the increase in um with the increase in subscription uh price.
that is the business model and it's hard to beat that. Um because it's >> um perhaps but uh if we're going to do that then we're going to have to do that completely in house in order to because anybody outside of our school district is going to use that business model. I
don't know of anybody that's going in the right mind that would build something like this and then just sell it as a totally owned software package. That doesn't exist these days. This sounds like an org chart discussion. >> Sure. The second thing um the the second thing is I have practical experience
with using AI one at my job um and my job involves a lot of high-tech you know sciency stuff and I've not been impressed with the ability of AI to streamline my my work for sure. In many ways I find that it's actually makes it more difficult because um for example if
I ask AI to d write a first draft of something or other um I wind up spending more time and stressing out more to edit the in the editing process to make sure that AI hasn't just made stuff up and stuck it into that 10page document. It
would it's actually easier for me to just write that first draft myself. second practical experience. Our car is at the Route One Hyundai uh for for service and still yes we're waiting for a part and
uh when Mary calls she has to deal with AI to get to a person that on average has lasted about 20 to 30 minutes and she's figured out that the best way of dealing with it is to connect say what she wants let the phone sit there for 3
minutes or 4 minutes or so and then hang up and then somebody calls is back who's actually not located at the route one Hyundai. They're located a different at a different place. And then she has a live person. Um you know,
uh this leaves me with an extremely low level of confidence for AI to handle things in say a chatbot situation. And I don't know the last time I've actually used a chatbot on a website and been satisfied with the uh with with the result. So, um I just want to temper
expectations. >> Okay, Leo. >> Yes. >> So, uh I want to go back to the uh I do use AI for my job, but I want to focus on the budget. >> So, I'm serious. I'm kind of very
worried. We have 6ome property tax increase still have this big hole. So when I reviewed the line by line items, I realized we have many shield surface, but the one line under
the reference number M0030886, which is $548,000 for snow and ice removal. Is any way we can share surface with the township to really save something?
At the same time I realized that more than 40 copy leasing items more than 40 which cost us almost $300,000 and certain in one office the guidance office there are four least copier
there. Can we use the technology to get those tools more efficient so we can reduce the uh the uh the number we put under the list. Additionally for certain le is
label with the uh instrument number. So which means each each instrument has a number but the certain lease agreement without specify the the num the instrument number. So we need uh be more
constant for every copy machine when we list it we better have a equipment number on it. So that is one sense another sense and one item for the copy machine uh copy lease agreement is just says all in different location of the
district and and certain other uh lease agreement is and point to which office >> sorry le can you can you just repeat the last point um the last point before this one >> so I reviewed this line by line I found
more than 40 different copio lease items. >> Okay. >> More than 40. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. It's cost almost $300,000. >> Number one. And for certain lease agreement, it tell you the copier
number, the pin for the each copier. And for certain lease agreement, there's no pin number for that instrument. And at one two big item is just generally descript
is located in different location but most list the corporate says oh this in guidance office in superintendent office we know where it is. So my point is can we use technology
to be more efficient so we can reduce the least item to save some money to bring down the the deficit. This is my suggestion. So no more shared surface be use technology be more efficient. That's could be the
way we have no I don't want cut any stuff. I don't want to cut any program but that's two way I can think about it. So please try to explore more shared surface opportunities and try to use
technology be more efficient. I remember when I work with Merc, I got a very nice printer on my desktop and then company says, "Okay, let's cut cost." They took away my printer, but that's okay. So, I
just work a few steps away and all scientists share the same printer. It works perfect. So, we don't have this kind of luxury at this moment. So, we everyone got to be >> you do a little bit more. This is my suggestion.
But we will just Joe Joe's going to respond but the what guidance office because the guidance office isn't in this building. >> Okay. So the item M0031408 10003
uh 713008 and another one all it located the guidance office. This is a line by line items. >> There's different buildings. Joe can respond. >> No, I'm not I'm I'm not trying to to say
anyone is doing anything wrong. My point is is any way we can use technology to to make it more efficient. >> I got so on the shared services with the snow plowing. I I think the issue is the township's main responsibility is the
the public streets. So if we rely on them to snowplow our parking lots, we would be last a lot of times. And and the town does a great job. So I'm not, you know, discounting what they do. But on the majority over a real length of
span of time, our parking lots and sidewalks are ready to go before the township, right? So the volume of roads that the township has to take care of and you know whether it's the county or the state uh departments are massive. So
if we go into some type of shared service with you know the township, the county or state, we're always going to be on the back end. All right. So that that's a that's an impact. I'm not saying it won't save money or a possibility. Um but that is a something that would have to be you know talked
about and uh we would have to understand. I >> I understand your concern and we have a new superintendent. I assume we have a better relationship with the township. We can work with the township and to help them or ask them if they can
prioritize the school snow plowing because the town is running basically by the school schedule. So this thing I think we can do more job to build better relationship with the township. Okay.
>> And then on the we'll we'll definitely look into it. I mean there's no harm in trying to figure out that that would result in savings. >> Okay. >> And then on the copers I think it's important to note >> for the public uh I believe we have 56 copers in the district over 13
buildings. Um over time we have uh eliminated the deskjet printers, right? Because they're very costly to operate. >> Um the copier leases that you see uh each budget manager has a piece of the
copier. Um uh take the superintendent's office, right? There's a one copier in there uh in Dr. Mamman's budget. there's a piece of that and then there's a corresponding piece that could be in uh Terara's budget because she oversees all
the the copier. So there there's skin in the game for each budget manager to manage their copier. So it's not a runaway train. Um over time over I think this is the third lease that I've been
involved with maybe the fourth we've reduced the copier expense. Um, and we've probably saved well over a million dollars during that time. Uh, it it was probably three times the cost it was now um when I first took over the copier
lease uh way back when. Um, so we try to manage that. U put copers in strategic locations. Unfortunately, like at the high school, you know, there's department chairs or we don't have department chairs anymore, supervisors um that are needed. the athletic
department. Um where if they had to every time they printed something, we'd be losing more money in manpower to retrieve that. Um we do set up where uh schools have to send over certain things to central duplicating. Uh but it has to
be a volume certain volume for that. Um we have a software called paper cut. Um it's great, but it's annoying because every time you print it says, do you really want to print this? Do you want to print it in color? Do you want to print it on two pages? Like, and if you
got to keep on hitting the button and but it's also a good reminder to be like, do you really want to print this? Like your presentations tonight are >> not in color. And if so, I'm sorry. >> I'm not saying you are doing wrong.
>> I'm just suggesting we use technology be more efficient. >> Sure. Because at this moment we have to think a reasonable a practical way to reduce the cost to bring the budget to the to the close. >> I think it's important that Joe explains
what we've done already. Because when people hear that what you it would seem like we're not using technology to be more efficient. Absolutely we are. You know we had a conversation about the colored thing today. I'm like listen I have no money. Like if you stand still I'm gonna get money from you. That's
where we are right now. So, I just think that it's important for Joe to respond before somebody runs away with that and says, "Oh, they have copier machines everywhere. You have a copier." Like, that's not what we're doing. So, I think that's why he's explaining. He gets that you're not blaming anyone, but I think
it's important for us to respond. That's why we're having this conversation in public. >> And, you know, Lee, I'm not taking it as a blame. I I think we should be looking at those things, right? We we we have an obligation to look at those things and
and continue to press the envelope um to to try to be more efficient, use technology more. don't print. You know, I I would love that, you know, if we were totally and the board has made a tremendous shift recently and, you know, thank you because it's like, okay, just
upload it to the file, you have access to it. That takes two seconds instead of somebody making copies. You know, we're not all the way there, but we're we're making strides. So, it's that same mindset that we're trying to apply to everything and and hopefully the whole district gets on board with that and we
can move forward. And the money allocated in the budget for the snow removal. That's only if you use that. Only if we need to, right? We don't need We're not going to have another snowstorm, Joe. I already spoke to God. It's not happening. It happens every 10 years. We had ours this year.
It's not going to happen next year. But >> did you spend, >> right? So, Last year, we were fortunate, right? Two years ago, we were really fortunate. Um, three years ago, we had board members saying, "Don't even budget it because it's never going to snow here." This year, not fortunate. We were
well over 300 over $300,000 over budget in the snow removal. >> So we just have that there as a safety precaution. Let's pretend next year it doesn't snow at all. What happens with that $500,000 that was allocated? >> So >> okay, good fun. >> Right. And it will help us in the
following year to budget excess fund balance to reduce the tax burden. >> Right. >> Part of the problem with this budget is we typically budget 4.6 6 million in that fund balance to offset taxes. We
have $110,000. >> That was the what we discussed. >> So, you know, if you look at it from that standpoint, we're budgeting 2.3 because right now we're we're doing pretty good this year, right? In that budgeted fund balance. If we had the full amount, we would have a balance and
then we could really start talking about the impact of taxes. What do you want to do? If we had the full amount, like no issues, it it would set us up better. Would you be able to clear up for the community? I mean, I know we already discussed it, but why you only have $110,000 left?
>> So, without getting into the weeds on the calculation because it's a pain. The the bottom line is >> in 2025 there were expenses that came over in not over budget because we were not over budget, but it it
we didn't have any excess. Everything happened bad. And so health benefits were three $4 million over budget. So that eats up the $4 million. I mean that's the most simplistic thing you can
look at. So when and that's the thing we have to be cautious about. You cut everything to the bone. We're a $200 million operation. Some things are going to come in under and you're going to have a good year, but some things are going to not.
So we have or a number of kids go out of district, right, that we weren't planning on. We're big enough to say, okay, these accounts came in under, we can sustain these increases. But if you look around the state, there's more and more districts that are saying we have
to cut $4 million right now in this current budget to to just survive, >> right? Because there is no mechanism to take a loan. the state's not giving loans and you don't want a loan from the state because they give you monitors and then you guys have no authority, >> right? So,
you have to be really mindful that these decisions that we're making today have a long impact and decisions that were made in recent years are impacting us. >> I was just you you said what I was just
about to say. So, we're not doing short-term band-aids. We're thinking long term with this year's budget >> 100%. >> Because I don't want to be here like this next year. I want to come to you next year and say remember where we were last year. This is what we got up to
since then from May till now. This is what we've done. These are some cost cutting measure. I want to be able to come to you and say because you did ABCD. this is what we've been able to do and this is why we're in a healthier place or this is why we've been able to save this amount of money or this is why
we've been able to be, you know, at least be financially healthy a little bit. I want to not come with a $110,000 fund balance next year. I really don't want to do that. I want to be able to advance teaching and learning even as we're looking at what this cost cutting
measures are going to be. We have to keep moving forward. There is innovation. We we have you know there I I need better rankings for crying out loud. I there's work to be done than just balancing I don't want to say than just balancing
the budget because we need to but I really I we need to be in a place where it's not like worries me I have no money to do anything. I really there's so much to do um to advance uh teaching and learning and everything that East
Brunswick stands for that we like about East Brunswick. So we compete we can compete in a global you know society economy with changing needs. Our kids are coming to us with different needs.
You know we need to be able to adapt you know and be agile enough as an organization to address those needs. That's what I want us to focus on. And um >> either >> can I can I I just want to make certain like
>> what I just said is not an indictment on the previous boards or administration. Look, decisions were made based off of what we were dealing with at the time, right? And we don't have a crystal ball for the future, but it's
just trying to reinforce that, you know, certain decisions have long-time impact and if we don't start planning three, five year cycles, we we tend it tends to catch up. So, I I just want to clarify. >> Thanks, J.
>> Yeah, >> I I'll be quick. I I don't have a ton of certainly no expertise and not a ton of experience in the whole software space. Um but I would caution us and um I think the worst thing that we could do in any of our schools for any of our children
would be and I don't think I'm hearing this. I just want to state it would be to think about replacing a human with some sort of software or robot. >> Yeah. No, I know I hear that. So I think that the and I'm glad to hear that. I think that the I mean that concerns me
greatly on on every level. Um and I think that you know the the one of the beautiful things about this community is the relationships that are built in these schools and the and the you know outside of the academics and the athletics and the arts is the people that are you know born from this system
and go out into the world to be good people. The only way that we'll continue to accomplish that is by, you know, recruiting and retaining the top talent, you know, the most competent, highly skilled individuals, which I know you you are actively pursuing and continue to. And I know we already have so many
in this community, which is awesome. Um, but it scares me, you know, it scares me. I think even on my own on a personal level, I'll just share this real quick. I do a lot of like communication in my role and I I started to find myself like you know taking what I wrote and then going over to Chad GPT and saying make
this more professional and it was good and now I'm at a point and this is freaky where if I don't do it I'm secondg guessing myself. >> That's scary. >> It is. >> That's a like that's a problem
>> and it's so easy to do it. So I I'm worried about it. I mean, I I I'm the folks up here know a heck of a lot more about it than I do, but um you know, there's ways I know that we can continue to tap into it and take advantage of it and utilize it, but not at the expense of any human being. >> Thank you.
>> Thanks, Tim. >> Thank you. Um so, first off, I want to apologize that I wasn't here for a meeting last week, but I did have a commitment with my daughter. Um but I watched the meeting and you all did a great job communicating and sharing your thoughts. Um I want to kind of just like
focus for a second on what said and as well as Dr. M but I think the return on investment is really important to me right and so I think the clarity that we have here with this year's budget is looking at being deliberate and being
data driven right and being able to say like these are why we're making the decisions that we're making and we're not making them because um they'll help us just this year but in the future right like as we go and um I'll use the word grow from our student services
meeting um last week, right? Like what are our growths and what can we do? And I think the part is when we look at innovation, there are districts that are losing and have lost a lot of money and they are cutting programs and things that affect students directly, but they
also have people who are creative and innovative and are saying like, okay, we're losing in this area, but how can we write these curriculum, right? like or we know that our community is focused on STEM and steam and so how are we
writing these ourselves and how are we adding new courses and I think like that is what's important is taking what we have and knowing like what's unique and special to us and being able to build on that and I don't want to say defending because I don't think that's the right
word but just being able to to advocate and say like this is why we're making the choices that we're making and they were made deliberately uh in that moment. But I also then want to skip to like another question. I know that you had put out for your advocacy group and so I was wondering like how many
responses did you get? >> I think I got 30 36. >> Okay. All right. >> Yes, I got 36. In fact, >> um Dr. Tanya and I kind of went over at our last meeting just going over and um
going over the the applications and and and looking through them and um I have a date uh that we'll start to get together, but Dr. Tenius and I still have to go through what that would look like. And um but I'm excited. Um beyond
that, uh I think April 9th I'll do an update. >> Okay. >> An update. Yeah. Um because then you have to hear about the strategic planning and how we're learning in that area and what the dates are and >> the state of what I heard with the meet
and greet. I I did promise to share that with the public. So I want to do that. So we have a few things coming up. April 9th I will share that. >> Yeah. I feel like that will that's like all guiding tools for us, right? like having our strategic plan and then being true to that year after year in our budget and saying this is what the
community and the board puts as the things that are the most important to us. And so those are the things that we we touched last, right? Or um maybe we ask, you know, I I feel like this is this was talked about a little at the last meeting, but what's the parent investment, right? Like what are parents
willing to put out when it comes to the things that their children are involved in? um as well as as you know looking at the the bigger picture of what are be able to do like as a community but also like knowing that we'll never be able to fund raise or collect enough money to go
um even touch right our deficit. So it's kind of like how do we manage all of those things at the same time while being true to the brand that is East Brunswick right and that's the community that's here and I think that's very important.
>> Thank you. Um, can can I just I'm gonna close this one. So, I just want to because I don't think the public is aware, but um, you know, I I appreciate the let's look for money in places that we haven't before.
I mean, Tara uh, with the last snowstorm, she was like, "Oh, I think FEMA can give us a we've never done that before." So, that's those are the types of things that, you know, we appreciate that the administration is doing. Um, I do want to say that AI is a tool and I
think people tend to forget that, but it's a tool and um I I actually am now trained in how to identify when somebody has written using AI and it's >> actually frustrating. >> It's so frustrating.
>> Uh you Yeah. Um, and then you know final statement I I remember with your interview and I've shared this a million times before. You said, "Show me your budget. I'll tell you what you value." >> And that obviously still resonated with
me and I think you know we as a board that's what we're trying to do here is what we value is going to be what this budget looks like. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> Yes. >> That's good. So the this slide uh we thought it was
important um to show the the tax history on on the last 10 years um of increases. So going back to 2018 the increase on the overall taxes that's the general fund in the debt service um was 1.73%.
it was under the 2% cap. In through 2021, it was under the 2% cap. FY2022 was 2.8%. FY 2023, it actually went down 73 because the debt service tax levy decreased. Uh we had bonds that
expired. Um 2024 it was 1.7%. Um in those years um from 21 to 24 we did have significant increases in state aid uh if the community remembers. So that helped uh
keep the tax levy increases down FY25 it was 3.76% 26 3.65 and then the 6.16 that we're talking about tonight. So the average um
from FY 2017 through FY 2027 was 1.49% a year tax increase and if you average it over the those 10 years including FY27 it comes out to 2.4%. So um I I think that does show a history
of the board um the district being mindful of the tax increases. Um, so, uh, that open for any conversation. >> I appreciate you pulling this data, Joe. Um, do you think this may be a question
you you can't answer, but do you think this tracks with most districts our size? >> I can answer that question. Fortunately, I've been a lot of board meetings the last two weeks. Um unfortunately >> what I would say is what what you're
looking at the last couple years and what's proposed here tracks very closely. Some are much even high higher in the last couple years. I mean this is this is really a an issue that is not unique to one district. It's really
systemic throughout New Jersey. And you know, you have drivers of the health benefits that are going through. You know, when you have 30% increases, 20 and 30% increases two years in a row. That's one issue. Then the cost of utilities, the cost of gas, all these
things are um falling on districts and municipalities literally throughout the state. I would say that your tax increases over from 2017 up through 2024 are
the these ones are um low. I mean, I would say that that the most I've seen, you know, you have this one in 2022, 2.8, but I would say that that most districts go to the the levy. they go to the 2%
just to try to, you know, keep up with with the cost of, you know, contracts, benefits, all that stuff. What's exasperated it though this year, and I would say that if you look at districts, I was at a district the other night, very similar size. Um, it was 5.98. I
mean, so it's literally, and I've uh was another district that was um higher than this. So again, but it's all driven by the same factors that you're experiencing because you employ lots of people because you're delivering education and when you have a lot of
people, health benefits costs and when you compare it to like for example a municipality, they don't have nearly the number of employees that a school district does. That's why the budgets when you look at the pie chart of where do local property taxes go um you know
the tax dollars on your house you have you know usually 20% of the county 20% municipality 60% the school district something of that thing the reason it's 60% is because probably the school district has more employees than both the county and the municipality have
together dedicated to the town. So, um, but I would say overall you guys are, you know, what you guys have done consistently has been very conservative. >> Well, >> yeah. I I also think it's worth putting uh uh mentioning that the tax increases
that we do see up to fiscal year 2024 are actually under inflation year over year over year over year. And it's not until um fiscal year 2025 that um our tax increase outpaced inflation. But
even then um the amount that we were below inflation um especially during the co years far outweighs what we're seeing in terms of running over inflation. And this also may just be a reflection that uh perhaps our um revenue is a lagging
indicator compared to the the consumer price index. Thanks. So, I wanted to go back. >> Go back. >> Can you go back one more? >> Yeah, back one. Back one.
>> No, no, >> touched the one. >> Sorry, it looks different on here. Um, so I just for for the public to be aware and I did this with the board when we were in small group. If you want to t calculate what your exact tax increase would be, um, you go on the township
website, uh, where you pay your taxes, and you take your assessed value, and you're going to multiply that by 11.822%. And then that number is your total tax. So that's what you pay for municipal, uh, county, school, everything. So you
take that number and you multiply it, but by 62.5% because that's what goes to the schools. and then you add 6.16% because that is what your increase would be for the year. So, I'm saying this
because I've people have been sharing screenshots with me of conversations that are happening on social media and there seems to be a divide over, oh, don't get rid of um programs, increase taxes. Why can't we increase taxes? And then you have people who are saying, I can't have my taxes increased. I can't
even afford to live here. Someone even shared with me a a video of a gentleman at a town council meeting saying the same thing. So, you've got two schools of thought. I think people really need to make an informed decision when they are letting the board know because remember at the end of the day we're
representing all of you. Um we know what this is going to impact us. Um and just you know make sure that you're doing that calculation and fully understanding what that's going to look like if that's the direction that the community wants
to go in because this isn't a board decision. Ultimately we we talk to people all day long. This is a decision based on what we hear from you. So keep that in mind. >> Yeah. >> All right. So this screen
shows the impact of the tax increase and how how we get there. Um there's two buckets. The general fund uh and as a reminder to the public, the general fund is our day-to-day operations. That's where salaries, utilities, benefits, transportation,
um supplies for the classrooms for the district come out of. And then you have your debt service. The debt service are the bonds that have been approved through the years uh through bond referendum for various projects like when Hammershold was done. Uh, Central
and Lawrenbrook were uh there were additions and renovated. Uh, Memorial when we had the fire a number of years ago. Uh, those are all bonds um that are set, right? They're they're locked in. We don't have a choice. That was approved. That that's cemented into the
tax levy as we go forward. Um, so a couple things to note on here. You cannot take in the yellow the tax levy increase under general fund of 6.47%
and just add it to the -2.86% to come up with 6.16. We we know that doesn't that's not the math right? The 6.16% represents the increase in the taxes
divided by the 2526 tax levy. All right. So you got to take the total. All right. So as you know people are looking at this it that's a big point of clarification. Um
so it breaks out this slide. you know, how much our appropriations are to have a balanced budget, right? Um because we got to close that gap. The state aid 39 million. And let me read off my slides because need stronger glasses. Um fund
balance we talked about is right now 2.3 million. Um we don't have anything for capital reserve withdrawal. Other sources 7.1 million. Uh that's interest on investment. um the fees for clubs, sports, uh transfers in from the
enterprise funds that that's a catchall. All right. So, we add that up and you know, we figure out what is the increase needed uh to balance. So, that increase for the general fund is $9.7 million. Um the
debt service is going down 145,000. So that comes out when you do the math to 6.16% increase. >> Any questions? >> I have a question. >> Yes. >> If the taxes go up this year, does that
solve the problem? >> Since we're talking about sustainability over I hope like five I mean everywhere usually has a fiveyear plan. That's a term in my industry. I don't know if we does it solve our problem.
>> I think that the one thing so it'll it will help your problem. >> Um but you're not going to I think that the one of the biggest drivers it's probably the sole biggest driver is your health benefits.
>> That is going to take legislative change. Uh it's my understanding that the legislature is actively looking at this because you have to understand although you guys are not in the state health benefits plan, you're in a school district that is modeled after the state health benefits
plan. So you have a level of benefits that's modeled after the school employee health benefit plan or closely aligned to it. And the state has the state health benefits plans for police officers, people that work in the state government, judiciary, they're experiencing the same thing. So, there's
got to be a a a legislative change. Um, that is and I know it's being worked on as we speak in in in the Senate and assembly. Uh, Governor Cheryl has given a directive to get this done like to work on it to reduce it because it's not sustainable. That'll be you're going to
it's going to be a combination of state action and local action to get this under control. As you know, Governor SH also put out um you know, more touring money raising um utility bills because that's another problem that that it's totally out of your control. I mean, you
have no saying it. The board of public utilities sets the rates. So, these are things that that um finding efficiencies definitely helps. Um and and you know, I think this would this would definitely
relieve some of the pressure. I can tell you that the district um uh I was at on Monday evening u their tax increase um was still high because of the health benefits but the what you did last year and what they did what they did very
significant last year was significant cuts significant I mean there was over 30 teaching staff members that were separated and they still had a 5 you know 9% increase because of the health benefits So,
>> you know, we can't you can't keep doing this over and over and over again. And I think this is every district in the state, not just here, >> but we will have to do this over and over. >> If if if the health benefits is not addressed, you will. >> Right. I I think a major issue is how school districts are funded. So, we have
the state aid component and I I I think we've done a pretty good job of explaining the formula and that there is no way to plan, right? Because it's just all over the place. the factors and the how things change. So you have two other
revenue sources to to fund your budget. Local tax levy and then the miscellaneous. I can tell you the amount of money we bring in from the enterprise funds are it's more than other districts. Um
significantly more. we we you know I think we do a really good job of maximizing that and bringing over what we can. Um so the burden again and again falls on
the tax levy to to residents until that changes and not every state does that right not a lot of states do not follow this type of you know school funding. Until that changes, this will be an ongoing problem because if you're
only allowed to go up 2% and we we know things are going up, you know, 2% for us is $3 million. Our health benefits went up eight, >> you know, like how how does that work? And so you're into this position of
okay, take advantage of every adjustment that you can and put the burden on the taxpayers or cut. Those are like every year and there are years even though our tax levy increases were small we we made cuts even though it was you know 2.8% or
1.7% there were still cuts. So this is a you know a difficult thing and it's a recurring thing. Um it's very frustrating. Uh but I I don't want to say yes this whatever we do this year
solves next year because experience tells me it it doesn't you know and it's it's just a recurring nightmare. >> Yeah. >> So just so the community is aware that may mean that we will have to have
another tax increase next year until health benefits are >> fixed. Is that >> I think it's more than just health benefits. I think it's the the whole system because you know supplies go up every year you know there is inflation
there is you know multiple components of our budget that that increase um the special ed you know there are costs that we can't contain um and we're at the mercy of you know private schools that
don't have any uh caps >> Joe can you just describe or help Thank you. >> help the public understand what our enterprise fund is because I think that's kind of unique to us and a revenue source and what's like under >> Yeah.
>> I'm just saying it's it's not unique, >> but we have the ability like some schools use like after school outsource like Champions or YMCA, but we have ours and it's like a 50/50 split, but we have ours inhouse kind of. >> Yes. But you also your enterprise
account also looks at all the areas that you um the places where like the JM pack like so it's just whatever you're doing to bring in revenue um under the enterprise that's what we're saying what we're saying is that yes these ones does make
>> a lot more money than um others but >> yeah we have yeah >> so yeah we have the facilities rental which is mainly the JMAC um community programs which is early learning academy, the early morning program,
after school, uh kids, it's called, uh enrichment programs are all bundled into that. Um child nutrition, but we can't take profit and move it over, but we can charge things, right? And that's what we're going to be more aggressive doing. So, um you know, we have the device
coverage. Um that that is an enterprise. Um those are the the main ones. Um, and like you said, there there are certain communities where that is outsourced. Uh, there are certain communities depending on uh they might be receiving federal or state assistance to run those
programs depending on their population. Um, we maximize it. I with community programs, I know we're always checking, okay, increase the fee, but we're still very competitive, if not under what the private programs are are doing. Um, so
it it's finding that balance, but also have a great program, meet a need, turn a profit in that order, right? Like it's not turn a profit, have a great it's those things and then turn a profit. And we've been very successful and there's a lot of people that go into that and there's a lot of support by the
administration and board uh that allow us to do that. >> Yeah. I I I just want to say, Joe, that um completely agree with your assessment. This is something that we talked about last time uh that the root causes of our budget shortfalls are the
health benefits, the runaway costs in healthcare. We don't have control over that. Uh cost for energy and transportation, we don't have control over that. Uh the charter schools, we don't have control over that. And not being funded um fairly for the work that we do for our special education
population. Um, and I completely agree. We can come up with brilliant ideas and get ourselves over the remaining 2.44 million that we're looking for. And next year, if health u health costs go up another 8 million, >> we have to do it again.
>> I I know. I know. But again, I again I think it's it it's important it's necessary to have a realistic vi um view of what's going on here. And uh and this is a basic principle. These are the
root causes of our budget issues. And if you don't address address those root causes, it's going to keep happening year over year over year over year. Um and uh and and that's our future. The only difference between this year and next year is we've already made a bunch
of, you know, cuts through good hard look at finding efficiencies, but we can't efficiency our way out of this thing. >> Yes, that that is true. We cannot um I wish we could but we can't.
>> But the and not but and this needs to be an ongoing thing which is what I said earlier in terms of it wouldn't end in May. Our goal is to continue to see how can we advance teaching and learning while we're also looking at things that overlap. So what I'm saying that what we
have to do in house we're going to continue to do right there are things that happen we have no um control over but what we do have control over we will continue to do that that is our focus and that's our commitment to the
community to do that. I mean I the fact that we found what we found we've been able to do in such s so short a time makes me think that what I find more I don't know because I've already it's close to the bone but we will keep doing the work we'll keep doing the work
and I wanted to ask you said something in passing what does return on investment look like >> I'm sorry >> yeah sure I think that um When I look at it, I think return um of investment
means providing like a solid foundation uh an education for a child based in uh curriculum and providing educ opportunities that continue with them after leaving our high school. Whether that be what
whatever course they decide to take uh working, going to college, a four-year, a two-year, right? um helping to shape them as a person um and having social emotional learning available and
just treating you know being able to have uh sustainable culture in our schools that treats everybody with kindness. And I think for me like as a parent I I do what I can right at home and in the community and I I try to
model that for my child and I just think like the same thing here right like a solid curriculum right um keeping up with as well as best as we can and and that doesn't always look financially like um having the best financially
right like we cannot always have the top technology or the top equipment right we have to learn to pivot and still be successful Right. And how do we manage those daytoday things and day-to-day interactions? Because sometimes even with I don't want to say the worst
facilities because I know you had your meet and greet at the high school and the ceiling's like leaking in the hallway, but you know sometimes it's like how do you how do you ensure a good school day continues when our kids are learning in that environment, right? And my daughter still comes home happy. So,
you know, and and they see it as >> Yeah. Right. And to us like as you know we are like oh you know like it kills you and but you know that your your child is going to become a successful
model in society whatever that looks like whatever your child chooses and I think for me like that's that's what it is important. I don't I'm sure people could add but that's just you're welcome. you want to >> you also said return on investment so I
wanted to know what that looks like for you >> as a mom or as a board member because I can say it two different ways I don't know which one you want >> you're a mom first >> okay so let me tell you as a mom so as a mom I have two different kind of students in my house I have the student who
cannot have a good day if she gets a 98 she has to have a 100 right and then I have a son who no matter what he does he has to work three times times harder in his classroom to get the grades he get. He gets good grades, but he has to work three times harder. And sometimes he's
not getting the support he needs because the classrooms are too full and the teachers are spread thin. And you have new teachers who don't know the protocols on how to address a student with a 504 or an IEP because they're new to the school because we cut the good ones. And now, not saying that these are
not the good ones, but I'm just saying these are not >> seasoned teachers with children who would have learning difficulties. And as a mom, I'm okay not having my I don't drink coffee, but I'm okay not having my vacations every
year because I put my kids in the sports that they want to be in. >> That's my sacrifice. if I have to sacrifice Ariel getting a a refresher from from Starbucks every day so that when they go to school they're getting the education that I moved here for
because I didn't move here I didn't choose East Brunswick because there was the best house. I chose East Brunswick because I did my research about the on the schools and that's why I came here and I loved the diverse community because I came from Brooklyn and in Brooklyn everyone's everywhere and I
didn't want my kids to just be exposed to one type of a a community. I wanted them to have the diversity and for my son sports is incredibly important for him especially for his self-esteem for his the sense of community. He looks up
to his coaches for leadership. What what he wants to do for his teammates gets him to be prepares him to be a better student in his classroom. And I am h I'm at year nine. And I have not had that experience for my son,
>> which was one of the reasons why I decided to run for the board. My daughter was a sacrifice of Envision. Thank God this year she has an amazing math teacher. I love her if you're listening. who's given her that self-esteem back because she has the capacity to do envision math. She just
lost that self-esteem from the way it was rolled out to her. So the teachers like her, I'm not going to say her name because I don't want to embarrass her, but the teachers like her are the teachers that I don't care how much I have to pay to keep her here or keep, you know, all the teachers that are doing that type of work because that's
the investment that I'm interested in. I'm not interested in raising price, raising taxes, raising fees, and then I'm getting mediocracy. That's not what I signed up for. So, if we're going to get excellence, which is what we got it
written all over the place, >> I'm okay with that. But that So, for me, it h if we're if we're going to say we have excellence for over a hundred years, it needs to continue. >> Thank you. >> You're welcome. >> Sorry to my children.
Thank god I don't watch this. >> Um I I actually have another question because there seems to be a perception that if we don't increase the tax levy, the state sees that as oh they don't need the money so they actually cut state aid. Is that true?
>> We can't I >> can't say one way or the other. Can we >> not? if you don't increase the levy. Um when they do the state aid formula, they look at your property values.
>> Yeah. >> The income levels. Um and one of the issues that they do look at is they basically say is your local taxpayers paying their fair share? >> That's what it is. So, you know, I can tell you that
districts, and you've read about them. There's a couple, one of them just a little south of here. You kind you got to go over the Driscoll Bridge. Won't mention the name. They were not raising the levy for years. And last year, uh, state said
you're going to ra, it happened in two places. They raised the levy by like 10 a hu 10% increases. and the same district this year has got the same problem all over again because of the health benefits etc. So I I can't say for sure but if if if you're not if if
the state when they come up with the state aid the state formula if they look and see that you're not raising the taxes uh like you should have or can they that does impact state aid or can impact state aid. So um I don't think
that that's happened here yet. you have because you guys have raised t every year you've raised taxes I think except for one year over the last decade. Um but I think that that that can be a factor into it because they do look at
the local share can what can you pay you what can East Brunswick taxpayers afford and are you making them pay their fair share towards the overall cost. >> Okay. And and on the flip side of that,
if we if we do increase, we get the tax levy um incentive aid >> that there's no incentive aid this year. Last year there was that um >> one time two years, >> two years, >> two the year before was a stabilization
aid. this past year was the tax uh levy incentive aid uh which allowed us to make an application to the state to say you know here's our cuts u the state came back and said this qualifies this doesn't um and a piece of that uh was state funded uh the vast majority was
taxpayer funded I think rough numbers if it was $500,000 of increased tax levy we got like 20 grand from the state so it it was not proportionate. >> Okay. >> All right. But that is not available
this year. >> Okay. >> All right. So, I know the tax levy is important. Uh and there's an impact. So, just for reference, I think as we stated earlier, uh 1% tax increase equates to
1.5 million in revenue to the district. So, we're currently at 6.16%. That equates to 9.5 million and we have a corresponding deficit as of today of 2.4 million. If you were to
reduce that to 5.16%. Our deficit would increase by to 3.9 million. So, the the chart is there. you know, if we go all the way down to the 2%, we're looking at, you know, a deficit of
8.6 million. Um, and again, that's net. That's already after we've found 3 million um to close at the original 5.5 million that we were looking at. So I I just
we're trying to give some perspective of you know if we decrease the tax increase what what the what's the dollar amount? Sometimes it's easy to say oh you know 6.16%. What does that really mean? All right. So we equated it to dollars for for
reference. >> No questions. Next slide. So, um, this slide, uh, talks about the impact to the homeowner. Um, the average assessed value in East Brunswick is $132,000.
That means of the current school tax bill, $10,455 is related to the school tax. With an increase of 6.16% your school taxes would increase
annually by $641 and monthly $5342. So that is an approximate uh okay we the assumption every most towns each year the the the pool of assessed value as things come online new construction
increases. So, you know, it it I would hope come August when the new tax bills, whatever we land on, somebody doesn't come back and say, "Well, you know, my value was 132 and it went up $54, not 53." It's an approximate. It's a point
of reference. All right. Um, laughing at Yeah. Yeah. >> Thanks, Joe. Thank you. >> That's my world. Laughing and crying at the same time. Trust me, it's a possibility. >> Living proof. So um any
>> any questions on on this slide? >> Jamie. >> Um so just to clarify um so one household at an assessed uh value of 10230,000
has the tax bill of approximately uh 10,400 to educate any children in that household basically is their contribution annually. Um, is every single charter school that we send our
children to above this dollar amount? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> And if there were three children in a household who all went to a charter school, we would pay the full amount of that charter school's amount per child. >> Yes.
>> And we have such an exceptional system here that produced the lovely Dr. Tanus, class of 2001. Holler. >> Um, >> and Dr. Falco classic. >> Oh yeah. No, I was I was busy playing soccer. I wasn't I wasn't achieving like you were. Um but uh you
>> had soccer. >> Yeah, I had soccer. Hey, I still have my 1996 GMC Champion sweatshirt. I do wear that around town. I also have my Lady Bears like 1998 like paw print sleeve soccer shirt.
Couple softball shorts floating around too. But um you know I we talked about value and the memories, the friendships, the um the value of the education and just the the talent that this district
has. Long-standing talent that um really helped me to be who I am today. I see so much value in a public school education. I mean, again, I've said it before, I could live anywhere. I am blessed that if I went and I wanted to practice uh behavioral optometry anywhere in the
country, it's so niche I could do it. But I'm here in this town because I believe in our schools. And I really hope that if there are parents watching this meeting and you know, you've thought about our public school system or you have questions, ask about them. You know, we'd love to have you back if
you're open to it because we're working hard to make sure that all of these programs are available for your kids. Thanks Jamie. >> Anybody else questions on this? >> All right. So last slide. Uh key dates
moving forward. We have board meetings April 9th and 23rd. Uh where we will continue to have open conversation. Uh we are pulling uh additional information um to present uh and to discuss. Uh just
a reminder, our public hearing and final adoption is May 7th. We have to know where we are after the April 23rd meeting. We cannot go into the May 7th meeting with additional changes. All right. So that's not an East Brunswick
thing. That's a state thing. Um so uh a lot of work to be done. Uh work that will be done. Um and that we'll regroup and present to the board and to the public. Any
final questions or thoughts? Leu go ahead. >> So I think if we have this uh more than 6% property tax increase we what we are doing is trying to keep the boat floating. We are now solving the
long-term problem unless unless the state change the funding formula. Unless the state changes the special education funding formula, unless the state changes their health care benefit,
I believe we will come back again again again every year. So this is the fundamental cause of the problem and no matter what we do, I believe we already in push the efficiency very very high. Even I'm asking them to do it Joe to do
it but we I believe our efficiency is very high and our teachers is already very sane with for last two years we we did cut some positions so I think the we need if we want really want to change the
situation we have to do something in Trenton this need entire community's effort without any ch change from the pop this thing will come back again. I I strongly believe inflation will be here forever
and this we already paying too much but any increase property tax every resident will feel the pain but the only change the only hope is someone can change in trend that's is my thought
>> thank you mover Jimmy >> yeah I I just wanted to piggy back off of um Antoine's mention of excellence in education cuz I remember um when I was running I sat down and tried to write
what my mission statement was and excellence in education was the first thing that I that I came up with. I know everybody that um like all the meet the candidate uh events that's what person after person after person said was the goal excellence in education. No one
said, "I want to spend as little money as possible." And I'm going to get in trouble for this analogy, but I think it it it it is uh it does um bear worth um mentioning um because the education thing is a thing that we
value. It's what brought us all of us to East Brunswick, including including my family. Um I have a story about trying to convince our real estate agent to show us homes in East Brunswick. He told us not to because my commute would be too bad into New Brunswick. I don't know why, but that's >> so um so we went around him. Um and as
Dr. Mman has said, you know, you show me your budget, we'll show you what what um what we value. And the value thing for me is is a really important um word that um Jamie mentioned that as well. Um, a
lot of people talk about cost and the cost is wrapped up in the value u judgment, right? But the cost is not the number one priority in making that judgment. Um, the what what that judgment involves is taking a look at
what we get for the money that we're spending on our kids. And I think that's a really important way to think about the decisions that we have to make because and and I'm not telling anybody how to think. There could be people out there that just really don't want to
spend any money any additional money in the school district. Um and you know that that's fine. You can make that choice. I'm not saying and people may have reasons for making that choice. It's not my choice but you know I understand different people have different thoughts. But the but the fact
is is that as we've talked about costs for things keep rising year over year over year. Um I mean I I just went to my favorite sub sandwich um place for lunch today. Um they changed the menu. My cost for my sandwich went up 10%. So you know there there's there's that. Still a very
good sandwich. I will still keep going there. You know because food drives all of my uh decision-m. Um but the but but where I'm going with this um is that if the goal is to spend as little money as possible, eventually something is going
to break, right? Um you know, an example we can take a look um at that everybody in East Brunswick is familiar with um if the goal is to not spend more money on road repairs and the cost of road repairs keeps going up year over year over year, you can see what happens to
the roads over time. Um, and that's not the thing that I want to have happen to uh the school district. So, um, you know, so we should keep that in in mind. That value word I think is like super important and it doesn't ignore the cost. It just sets what the priorities
should be. >> Okay. When I was running, one of the major talking points for me was the taxes because I need to know if it's going to be sustainable in the long run. I'm not I don't want to be part of a board
that's going to gentrify East Brunswick either. I don't want to be part of a board that's going to say you can only go to this school if you can afford to live here and you can only afford to live here if you're okay with raising the taxes. And I think it's important, especially for tonight's meeting, that everybody who's listening at some point,
hopefully they're watching it and getting to this part, but um understand that we're not just raising taxes because it's the only solution. It's we're raising taxes because we have to preserve what we already have. And we
are sending a lot of money to charter schools without, you know, it's out of our control. But there's also a lot of pizzeras and every you know your subplace there's people go to the place that they feel they're getting their return on investment. So it would be
great if our schools did represent arts and excellence and academics and excellence and athletics and excellence because it will invite those parents to come back here. It'll it'll this will become the school that it was before. It it is not the school it was before.
Everybody knows that we haven't been blue ribbon in a very long time. I don't even know if you can still become a bluebird school. Can you? >> I know some people are boasting about there being blue ribbon schools. But >> I would like us to get to the point where people are proud to say my kid
goes to his forensic schools. So again, I don't take it lightly, especially for my seniors if you're listening because I did talk about this with Joe. There are programs for them. Can you talk about that a little bit or no? Sorry, Joe. It's all through the state and the the
municipality. If you're a senior, um if you're disabled veteran, uh I recommend that if you haven't, you go over to the municipal building to the I believe it's the tax assessor and there's forms. Uh sometimes you can do it online, but you still have
to go and drop off the paperwork and it freezes your taxes. Um there might be some rebates that u there's various programs, so uh it takes a little bit of work. Um I'm familiar with it because I did it for my dad recently um not in
East Brunswick, but um you know um so it's standard um throughout the state. So it just requires a little bit of research and and poking around, but there's options. >> Thank you. >> Oh, lots of hands. Uh Anna and then Lori.
>> Okay. I think it's also important to remember over the past two year past two years the last two budget seasons we already had cuts la uh in 2025 of 6.4 4 million,
right? That included not only, you know, teachers, support operations, uh, cuts to professional development, um, all different things. We had the
same thing in the 2026 budget reduction. It was 6.339. We already cut a lot. If you go back even further, East Brunswick once had a fantastic elementary foreign language program. I
don't know how many of you remember that. >> It was excellent. And guess what? It's gone. You know why it's gone? because we had to take that money that we were spending on our
in-house elementary foreign language program and we gave that money to Hatigva and I remember going to the fair and seeing a Hitigva table and I almost like jumped over the table to rip down their
poster because they they they advertised as we're the only elementary school in town that has a foreign language program. Yeah, because you took the money from us. So, I'm just saying once these
things go, they don't come back. Last year, we had a 25% reduction for elementary kids in their specials, which included art, music, PE, and library. That reduction, that's never coming back
once these things go. We've already cut in the last two budget seasons 95.5 staff, including 68.5 teacher positions. And of course, when you're cutting teacher positions, what
does that mean? That means larger class sizes. And I know Lee Woo, you asked, "Oh, we have a secretary and a half retiring. We're not going to replace them." Are we going to still have the same um same services even though we
have less staff? Well, I mean, come on. You can only get so much blood from a stone. You have less people working. And what the work that these people were doing was really important to our district. We weren't just paying people because it
was, you know, fun, because we were saying, "Oh, raise my taxes, please." No, of course not. these people were providing an important service and we cut them 95.5 and I don't know what that's going to shake out to this year.
How many more staff are we going to be losing? So, um I think it's important for the community to realize we're already starting at a lower point than we were. We do not
have what we used to have. >> Okay. >> All right. lecture over. I'll jump off my soap box. >> Lori, just before to your point, I think what what this is reflective of is no matter how many cuts we make, it's just
a matter of time before the taxes need to go up because there's only so much you can cut before the state, you know, says there there's nothing more we can do for you. >> We can't deficient early.
>> Yeah. So, it's just a matter of time is we just keep buying year after year >> and I think that's what Dr. Mammon was saying is this isn't sustainable because we're just >> but that that has been in response to the community because nobody wants their taxes to go myself included. And by the
way, like that assessed value. I I pay $22,000 in taxes right now. So, I don't even want to know. I mean, I I know what it could look like. So, I'm I I get it. But that has been because of a community response. I don't think anybody >> and I don't want to speak for the past
administration because I wasn't even here, but I don't think anybody wanted to cut staff, right? It's just been >> Yeah. Yeah. And and you're right. And you everybody knows how I feel about class size. I will never vote on a class size policy over 25 ever. Just so we're
clear. >> The cost. >> Yeah. Well, I'm just, you know, >> tell me so I can hire support teams. >> Yeah, that's fine by me. It will never be more. That's my vote. I'm one of nine, but that will always be my vote just so we're all clear. >> Go ahead. >> But if we understand the value of having a low
>> your return on investment, >> return on investment. Yeah. >> Can I hire Can I hire? >> Sorry. Go ahead. >> I certainly didn't mean for my ROI to become a return on investment on the credit. But it's actually what I was actually going to comment on, but you
you're a tough act to follow. But um I felt like the um my I felt like in thinking about it like return on investment that I'm like thinking about like oh I'm treating my kid or other kids as like a robot and so or like some math equation right and that's not like the thought that I
>> what we got >> right I >> that's not it at all. That's why intentionally you said what does that look like to you? What do you mean? I feel like as a board member and somebody in the community, there's nothing. And I know, look, we've all been at things together, right? Like we run into to
community, run into each other at community things, basketball games, right? Like I'm just thinking of the most recent stuff like community events. There's nothing that I that makes me more proud of our schools and kids that aren't my kid necessarily, but I think
all of them are my kid, right? Like to see them win or lose, right? to put everything they have into it, to be proud of the club and the things that they're doing that they come here and talk about in their elementary schools. To me, that is the biggest like return
on investment. They're not like it's not like some robotic system that I'm thinking of in my head or trying to to treat them like a math equation. But there's nothing to be more prouder of than people and our kids who are proud of themselves for arts, for academics,
you know, if they're excel like students who naturally excel to special education students that are are finding their ways, right, when they transition out of school and what that looks like for them like and I'll say average, but I don't think it's like the middle student,
right? The ones that we talk about all the time is how how do we encourage their growth? And I think those are all the things that we want here in in our town and that we're proud of. And that is what I like, you know, so it's not like robot like little robotic kids
running around our schools, right? It's just it's a feeling. And I know we get it because when we're there like you feel it, but it's what it is, you know, and that's what I that's what I want to preserve, right? Like those opportunities. Yeah. Like that is to me
like preservation. >> Yeah. Agreed. >> Yeah. >> Let me just say one thing. >> There's so much to take in. Um I mean obviously it's >> it's just such a tall order, right? Like it is it is what it is. Um
>> it it it looks grim. It looked grim two years ago. It looked grim a year ago. It feels grim now. Like and so it's unfortunate. Um I guess I mean a couple things on my mind. I I think one question I have for the experts in the room is you know like drastic times call
for drastic measures and if this is going to stay this way are there any trends in the world of academia that you foresee like coming down the pipeline in that may allow us to continue to meet the goals that we're looking to meet but
do it in a little bit of a different way. Like are people talking about this stuff? I mean and I don't even know like you know I don't I'm not in this space. I don't know like but is there a new way of educating a new way of like growing and building and and allowing children to thrive in these environments but
doing it a little bit differently because if if the state never changes you know if these laws never change which is is a sad and unfortunate potential reality something drastic has to change and I I'm just curious what you all think of that.
>> Um for sure it's all we talk about. It really is all we talk about. And I'm really excited because, you know, sometimes in when you have challenging times, you it's kind of like the phoenix rising from the ash. You know, it forces you to do things differently. So, a few
things we've been talking about is how we do school, right? School still really looks like what school looked like a long time ago. Meanwhile, our kids are not bad at all, right? So, you know, a lot of um what does high school look
like? Independent study look like um not votech, but really structured learning experiences is what we're calling them. How what can we do in terms of um creating um atmospheres and schedules that are
flexible where kids could work and come to school and do some learning and you know there that. You have to have a system that allows that to happen. And so that means we can't keep you know right now we have uh I mean for instance
I know Dr. Bully and I have been talking about we've had 120 credits for instance is what the state says we have 140 and expose our kids to 160 credits. I do not know how that's healthy >> when we talk about that worry about
mental health. I just don't know. >> Right. So we we're taking a look at those types of things um and what how are our courses what do we what you know what what matters to gen alpha and gen beta
you know and I'm really excited you know they know our students know a whole lot more than um we give them credit for I get to spend time tomorrow with some high schoolers so I'm really excited about that they tell me all the things that so there is definitely talk But one
has to be I don't want to say brave enough, courageous enough to step out of what the the the machine is and say this is what we want to do. Can we just at least take a look at this pocket of kids who
want this and program for them? What does that look like? You know, so there is a lot of talk even and we have a lot of opportunities here. >> I still I don't see it as doom and gloom. Yeah, you know, insurance going to go up and all of that stuff. Uh, I
really um I really believe we can we can come out of this and do better in spite of the things we can't control. >> Yeah, >> that was an awesome answer and I really appreciate that.
>> Tell me. >> I didn't set you up for that either. Yeah. Yeah. No, that was awesome. And that is why I know myself and the rest of the team up here are so excited to have you at the helm. >> Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Um and I just have to say, I mean, I think I've probably been here the in East Brunswick the least amount of time.
I've only been in in the community for about 5 years. And and and I I I just want to confirm and and or and reaffirm like we love being here. I mean, this is an incredible place. Even with everything going on right now, even with all these awful cuts that we've had to do, like it's an amazing place. We have
three kids in this district who are >> so fortunate. >> I mean, so fortunate. Um it's it's just an it's remarkable what we're doing despite all of the challenges and and it's just a testament to from top down
and down to the top. Does that make sense? >> Bottom up. >> Thank you. That's a lot better. I mean, it's just an incredible group of people. Thank you. It really is an incredible group of people and we're just we're just so lucky to be here and that's that's the way I feel. >> We're happy to have you. Thank you for
moving. >> Anybody else? So, actually to piggy back off of um Tim's question, Matt. >> Hi, Matt. >> I I put Matt to work with for every every dollar that he's >> You're earning those dollars? >> Yeah.
>> Um no, to piggyback off Tim's question, and I don't know if you can answer it, but But I'm sure the state recognizes that this is like a problem across several school districts. At what point are they going to all school districts? At what
point are they going to step in and say, "Hey, we have to fix something." I think I think that that uh Governor Cheryl and the the new commissioner of education are actually looking at it because as you know the teaching that occurs here they have um you know the state
standards that you have to teach >> and so they're looking at lots of different things. I mean one thing that they've talked about is we have over 565 school districts. you have K to fives,
>> K to8s, K to sixes, >> and so one, you know, combining them, making everything like you K to 12. >> Um, that will save money. So, they're they're looking at I think they're looking at it not just fixing health benefits, not just fixing special ed,
they have to look at it really holistically. Uh, and again, it does have to come down from the state level, but I do know that that is absolutely being addressed. But there's lots of stakeholders that that they have to, you know, work with to come up with a solution. And it's a solution that's
going to take, you're not going to get it, it's not going to be done by the end of 2026. This is going to be a solution that's going to take several years to to to write the ship. Um, and you know, the one thing this district has has experienced very difficult financial
times before. It happened actually in the 20101. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And when all of your state aid was cut, >> I mean, it was drastic. Um, so it's kind of cyclical, but I think that, you know,
coming up with efficiencies is good and but it's going to take what everyone's acknowledged a lot of things at the state level and really the state legislature on both the assembly and the senate and the governor, they all have to do it.
And I think that there's now an absolute willingness for them to really look at it because this isn't sustainable. This is I just was looking just on the line. I just started looking at districts 4.7, 5.6, 7.8. Every district is raising
taxes and cutting. You don't see everyone saying we're raising taxes, we're not cutting anybody. Or you have ones that are not raising taxes as much and it's dire cuts. The problem is if you do dire cuts and this happens again next year, >> you have nothing left. You have nothing
left. You guys are doing very strategic cuts so that you guys can remain an excellent school district and deliver because at the end of the day, I hate to like bemoone this, but driving down Route 18, people don't move to New East Brunswick for Route 18. I hate to tell
you that. It only takes about a half hour to get down it. Um but you people move here for the schools and frankly the property values in East Brunswick are directly correlated to the schools. >> So um I think that you guys have been very strategic in the way you make the
cuts and do things like that so that you maintain excellent programs. You have great athletics. You have great extracurricular. You have incredible art programs. I mean, you just see the kids when they come here and they I remember a couple years ago they had a quartet of
four kids coming here. It was like I was at at the Metropolitan Opera House. It was it was incredible. And so I think that being strategic is what you have to keep on doing and pivoting. Um but not making drastic cuts because if if the
state doesn't take action, you're going to be here next year. Hopefully they do take action and it will ease the burden of what's going on. I'm just going to jump in on legislation um which is currently advancing um uh
bill S-1807. I I looked it up on AI um and uh it's talking about pilot programs and under the current law towns retain 95% of the
funds from the pilot funds >> while schools receive nothing. 5% goes to the county. That's the way it is right now. That the town does not towns do not have to share the pilot
funds that they receive with the school district. Am I right so far? >> You you are 100% correct. And people should understand pilots just so understand pilot what is a pilot? Pilot is a payment in lie of taxes and it's limited to two areas. an area in need of
redevelopment or rehabilitation. So, it's got to be a blighted mall, uh an old factory. It can't be just, you know, if it's a clean piece of farmland, you can't do a pilot. So, in those areas, and it's to encourage developers to come in and redevelop these blighted areas or
areas that need to be rehabilitated, but you're 100% right. They cut a a deal with the developer. pilot is less than the advorum tax that the properties would be charged. They get it for a period of time. Usually it's
usually 20 to 30 years is the pilot. After the pilot expires, then it becomes an advalorum tax like all of you all of you on your houses and your condominium stuff. Those are advalorum taxes which is basically based on the tax rate.
You're if you're a pilot, it's not based on the tax rate at all. Okay. So, wow. Using that calculation, our schools won't be seeing tax money at the same rate um for 30 years, which would mean I'd
have to live to be 93 to be able to see >> the the equal taxes coming from those, >> right? >> Oh my goodness gracious. Yeah. I'm not going to make it that long. I think that the issue becomes that $10 million factory doesn't go on the
books. So the taxpayers that are currently paying taxes are not receiving the benefit. Right? So that 6.16% that we're talking about is not being spread to everybody. It's only being
spread to some. >> The people who are paying the people who are paying the advorum taxes. It's not just people. It's businesses. You have businesses that pay taxes, but if it you're a pilot, if you're you're granted a pilot agreement, you're outside of that base.
So, it's being spread around the remaining 90%, not the 10% who have pilots or whoever whatever the breakup is of pilots in any given community. But you're 100% right. It's 95 to the town, 5% to the county. >> Yeah. Okay. Um I I see a problem with that. So in other words that now if this
bill goes through um from my understanding is that they the the state will mandate um an amount that would go from pilot money to the schools to offset schools. But that's not going to help us because
ours are all already done. >> The bill that you're talking about is Senator Singleton is the sponsor. >> I'm just I looked it up on AI. I was in Trenton for this bill. I I I talked about it a couple weeks ago. >> That's going nowhere. >> Yeah. >> It's going nowhere because they're going
after pilot money for residential as well as commercial. No one's going to sign up for that because as much as we're people are understand the impact that pilots have on the schools, commercial has no impact on our schools. The people don't live here. They get in
their car, they go home from work. You want commercial pilots because that actually brings revenue to the town. that helps helps keeps the municipal tax low, which we don't need that going higher. Um, as far as the pilot money for schools, we have a new
superintendent who's been doing really well at um partnering with the township and there has been new steer services and even the mayor yesterday at his breakfast at the chamber of commerce was talking about how he wants to do more. He she I mean you guys were there too. he wants to do more with it without
needing a um a mandate behind it, which I think is impressive because when I was in Trenton, there were plenty of districts that were there with stacks like this of petitions of people signing up to force this bill to go
through. And I I I spoke with Singleton after I said, "You're not going to get anything out of this if you continue to keep the commercial inside of it." And he said, 'I had it with just residential before and I got more push back than before. I said, ' So then why would you add things to it to make it even less
appealing? He said, because I now I want the pilot money for everybody. But unfortunately, not every district can spare their commercial pilot money. So there you're not going to get any municipalities even even though they the developers are the one that were really pushing back at that meeting. You're not
going to get any municipality be behind this bill and say, "Yeah, no, we want to def mandate us. Let me give you 55%. I actually would like to see a bill where they mandate a percentage. Doesn't have to be every student that you put in the school because what about if somebody moves? Give me 5%.
>> Or tell me you're going to take over the transportation costs. >> I I Where are you, Brad? >> Imagine I would I would like to see that, but you can't count pilot money that you don't have yet. >> That's right. So until those are finished being built, you're you're
preaching to the choir because there's no money. He hasn't even seen the money. So >> yep, >> we're not going to see any >> and yet we still have to educate all the children that are coming from the new developments. >> See the thing. So the So this is what I have. So a lot of people say that and I used to say that too because I didn't
know. But that's like saying everybody who has a a who was paying property tax, every student in that house is covered. I don't cover my two my two children. I think Mary only covers one, one of her two. I cover one. She covers one. >> But you have families that have multiple
children. We can't tell people you can only have one kid in the school or or you can't come here. So, >> and I I lived in an apartment, so I do take a little offense to that thinking I don't deserve to be in a school because I didn't pay the property tax. They we do get land tax from those areas, which
is good. It's better than zero. I always like better than zero, right, Joe? Uh Joe would like more, but there's a lot of houses in the community that have multiple children in the district that I mean we're we're we have like Jamie pointed out, we have multiple
kids that were supporting their education in a different school. So right now I think the focus for the superintendent and the board should be on how we can save what we have without losing any more teachers. And that's that's important to me. >> Very well said. So my question related
to the pilot program Joe how many student generate by those program in East Bronson which we have to educate them but we don't get tax how many at this moment >> I mean I don't know that we don't get
tax um legacy we have 86 >> n yeah yeah so that's a kind of like an estimate but definitely between 85 and 90 already um kids that we bus and transport to our schools
>> for legacy only how about other products >> what what are the other pilots >> leu do you know >> other ones villa >> people should understand pilots so when you have and I'll just use an example let's say that the vermil I think it's called vermilion >> vermila
>> vermila >> that isn't occupied so pilots don't get they don't the town doesn't get start collecting money. It's based on the occupancy. >> So if you have a 50% occupancy, you're not getting the pilot deal. It based it's based on the rentals that are put.
So when you get like a you know 95 100% occupancy, then you're getting the full pilot money that's in. If it's unoccupied, it's under construction, you get you're getting nothing. It's basically uh a way for a developer to invest in a a huge project without being paying
taxes while they're building it. One concern I do have with pilots, and this is what I like to see taken care of in Trenton also is they'll consider those the property values. They'll consider those the value of those developments in our general um assessment and you shouldn't really be
doing that when you're talking looking at school aid because we can't have any of that money. So, if you're going to start looking at funding formula to be corrected, that's got to be taken out. if you're if you're not allowing me to take any part of that funding, then you shouldn't be considering that in the
value of our district because I think last year that put us over a billion. >> Yeah. >> When they considered it and those weren't even they were still v they are still vacant. >> So I mean that would be what if we're going to focus on when we go to Trenton for to with the advocacy group, we
really need to let them know you can't consider these pilots when you're considering the wealth of our in of our town because it they're not giving us anything. That's right. And and just one other thing just to think about pilots it because I represent lots of municipal entities too. Um at the end of the day
you own a house in East Brunswick. You're paying taxes to the town and taxes to the school district. So it's all coming the money is all coming from the same person. So if the pilot helps reduces the municipal tax but the school tax a little bit higher, it it it's all
really a wash because it's all coming from the same funding mechanism, you guys. So um you know, if your municipal taxes are lower because of pilots, that that's still a benefit to the taxpayers of East Brunswick. And so pilots, they
serve a purpose and and the ultimately the it's harder for a school district when you're looking at a silo, but the taxpayers overall they are beneficial to the the town because generally, you know, you're saving 15% that you're not
sending to the county or whatever, 17% it's staying within the confines of your thing. And so I mean you guys are are you I don't know how many municipalities have a ice skating rink. not a lot of them, you know, but those are things that that happen because you're able to leverage the pilot money to benefit the
residents of the town, parks, recreational programs, etc. And I think the one thing that your town does that's super unique. It's one of the most unique things. I haven't seen another school district do it. The shared services that you guys
have on debt is one of the most unique things ever. And what people don't realize is that by coupling with the the municipality's debt, the municipality is AAA rated. >> Yes. >> If you guys went out and tried to do your own debt, you would get anywhere
near that. >> So we're double. So it's not like we're that far behind. >> Yeah. But but but their body capacity. >> So but it's very unique that you guys have that relationship. It's and it does save the taxpayer. So you guys are working as a team to lower the
taxpayers. I loved it. >> Fun. So, I think that um you know, >> growing that to me, you know, the one of the best things that this the u the superintendent and his board is doing is you you're really embracing
like how do you work with the town to benefit the taxpayer, >> right? And my the whole reason I brought this up is because, you know, I I'm thrilled that my municipal taxes are staying, you know, level. But, you know,
people are going to be freaking out and rightly so. Oh my gosh, my school taxes are going so up so high. There's a lot that goes into that. And no, I don't have kids anymore in the district. And my grandparents started paying taxes in
1948. and then my parents paid taxes and now I've paid taxes and so you know we have to be looking ahead also um not just what's behind but
anyway that's it being Anna anybody else okay all right so we are moving on to the for the good of the cause for the public the board of education recognizes the value of public comment on educational issues and the importance of
allowing members of the public to express themselves on school matters of community interest. To protect the privacy of all students and staff, concerns regarding individual students and staff members should generally be addressed by first meeting with the with the appropriate administrative staff.
Public participation shall be permitted only as indicated on the order of business and board bylaw number 0164 and shall be governed by the rules outlined in the agenda. Every participant is limited to three minutes. If you would like to address the board, please go to
the podium and state your name and address. Is there anybody who would like to address the board? >> I need to bring a timer. I probably won't speak. >> Oh, Joe will time you. >> Oh, okay. >> Um, hi, my name is Alexander Patel. Um,
I'm sorry, you said address 15 Pony Road. Um, I just want to say I I came in a little late. I actually had the wrong time for the meeting. Um, but I think what we're doing here versus what we did last year very good. I was able to kind
of like peruse through the the budget and really saw the different breakdowns of like where everything is. Um, unfortunately I missed kind of all the cuts that you've already made, so I'll watch the video later. um but I think a lot of what you guys said tonight really resonated with why I came to the meeting
and we'll be showing up at these other dates. Um is the excellence is what we're looking for that return on investment, you know, is we get what we pay for. We're going to have to pay more. We want to see what we're getting for. Um so very interested in hearing
the strategic plan and where we're going through with that. Um I think the structural deficits that we have, healthcare, those things aren't going to go away. there's nothing we can do. Um, unfortunately, the pilots, I thought that was really great for you to bring up because yeah, Vermillas, what what if
Vermill brings in a thousand kids that then all decide they're going to go to charter school? Yes, maybe our taxes stay the same, >> but our but the cost that we now have to pay is going to make our taxes go up. So, yes, maybe as a taxpayer, but not as
trying to fix the budget. Um, but what I would do want to say is I I came in when you guys were talking about the AI and the efficiencies. Um, you know, I uh I come from a job and a background where there is efficiencies and processes and hopefully you can find some of these in
the contracts that we've made. There's year-over-year there's definite efficiencies there. Um, I think the AI thing, everybody's going to have a different opinion about AI, but I think there are solutions in the right levels of services and areas that AI can be
super beneficial. Yes, there's licenses and you got to think about that. But in terms of you have a teacher who's making a lesson plan, she should be encouraged to see what she can use with AI because she's got 24 hours in a day. If she can
now do 24 hours in maybe 16, that gives her or him more time to dedicate. Return on investment. You you pay two teachers the same salary. Someone's going to go above and beyond. Someone does what they need to to get by to get their paycheck.
There is return on investment that we can I think find. But if we're creating the environment for our teachers to kind of bring their best, I think, and the students to bring their best, I think that's really where we want to go. So, I don't have any specifics because again,
I don't want to regurgitate anything you might have said, but I am very encouraged to see where we're going. So, thank you very much. I appreciate it. Thank you. >> Thank you, Alexandra. >> Is there anybody else wishing to address the board? Going once. This is my favorite part.
going once. Oh. Oh, okay. >> Don't hit it yet. >> Almost. >> So close. >> Hello. >> Hi. >> Robert Seu, five Stratford. Um, I just want to piggyback on that. I think it's a great idea to look into AI. >> That's all.
>> Don't dismiss it. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> By the way, I wasn't I I don't I hope nobody thought I was dismissing it. I was saying it's a tool. It shouldn't replace people. But I I love what you said, Alexandra, that it's uh you know, if we can make a teacher's day easier by
using it as a tool, then why not? Yeah. >> All right. Now, my favorite part. Going once. Going twice. >> Right. Okay. Public comment is closed. >> You're supposed to use this to like call people to order, but we're so civil that
I never get to use it. do the law and order tap. >> Yeah. Oh, okay. Uh we are moving on to the only item on our agenda which is um business and support operations item one the school district tenative budget adoption. Uh do we have a motion?
>> Move. >> Second. >> Jamie and Wilbur discussion. >> So what's the plan here? So you're going to No, no, I know the plan is roll. I meant this is the tenative budget. We adopt it tonight and then >> we're working. >> So tenative budget, it's the starting
point. Um we have 2.4 $2.5 million defined. Um, we will come back with suggestions and some of that might be dealing with increased revenue that we might be able to bring in and that will trigger a conversation uh to to close
that gap um and get rid of those placeholders that we have uh because by May 7th we can't have those placeholders and we have to be back. >> Yes, >> he needs to final adoption >> by the final because we can still discuss it on the 23rd. We just have to
know where we're at. All right. >> And if we right now are we voting on the 6.16%? >> Yes. That is incorporated into the tenative budget. >> So is everybody aware of that? >> Everybody's aware >> and it doesn't make it final. >> It does. Yeah. I want the committee for
those watching at home. This is not final. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Okay. Any other discussion? >> Okay. So, this is a roll call vote. >> Anna Bron. >> Yes. Timothy Cummings, >> yes.
>> Antonet Evola, >> yes. For now. >> Jamie Falco, >> yes. >> Lewis Figurero, >> yes. I'm looking forward to additional information and what your suggestions will be. >> Lori Harrick, >> yes. >> Lee Wuhong, >> yes. I'm need more information and I
want to thank you for the temperate, but we I'm waiting for more information. >> Okay. >> Wilbur Pan. >> Yes. >> Maryanos. >> Yes. I also additional info but I want to hear from the community how they feel about the the tax what what do you value
what do you value what do you want this budget to look like that >> thank you >> thank you okay motion carries all right we are on to uh our last item committee reports information items and for the good of the cause of the board uh we
will start on that side because we started did we start with Anna last time >> yep >> yeah so okayette >> I You guys have heard enough of me today. I'll pass it to >> I'm good tonight. >> Yeah. >> The East Brunswick Human Relations
Council is going to be looking for student liaison in grades 9 through 12. More information is to come. Uh we look forward to the opportunity to work with students to help promote diversity, harmony, and um embrace our community
for how special it is. So, um, Dr. Mammon, you'll be hearing from us, um, for your approval for any sort of information that we hope to share. >> Absolutely. >> Thank you. >> Thanks, Jamie. Le, you're good. Okay. You Yeah. Uh, Tim, you're good. Laura,
you're good. Anna, you're good. Wilbur. >> Yeah. Um, so I wanted to mention the uh CPAG re resource fair at the library. Uh, that was on uh Monday night. Um th this was unique because um CPA has done some resource fairs um which have been
hugely successful um you know o over the past couple years. But what was unique about this one is this was um particularly uh geared towards uh the transition process. So what happens when we have our uh special education students and they finish with high
school and then what happens um to them. I actually have a a little bit of um experience with a similar thing um because uh when I was in practice we also took care of kids with cickle cell disease and there's a similar transition process when you get too old to see your
pediatric hematologist oncologist and then you have to go find an adult hematologist oncologist. It doesn't go well. It's really horrible. Um and it actually impacts these uh patients in a very significant way because um you can
actually track um unfortunately sometimes kids die of cickle cell disease and you can track what the what the curve of the kids passing away are and then when they get to about 18 to 20 that curve jumps down >> and then it keeps going down and the reason it jumps down is because of that
lack of transition between the uh pet's world and the adult um adult medicine world and believe me we try to get the transition going. So I think um you know so for me this was an extremely significant event because this is a very very key part of the students
journey um you know through life. The place was packed. I know some of us uh uh went there. I heard that um people heard of this from other school districts and they made the trip into East Brunswick uh for this. So, um, just wanted to, you know, recognize the great
folks at CPAG for, uh, uh, for, uh, for the great work, um, that they did. Um, I also dropped in on the commission on aging, um, meeting that, uh, was happening at the same time. Luckily, I didn't have too far to go to, uh, the the senior center, but it was good to
connect with them. Um and uh and this is probably not very well known at all, but there's a lot of intersection between uh the uh the events at the senior center in our schools. Um we often have uh kids going out to the senior center for performances of various types. Um we uh
there there's a um grand friend uh program that exists at at central. Um it'd be cool if we could uh you know spread that out to other schools as well, but it's a great uh way to um uh uh to promote intergenerational
relationships which are really important especially um uh in our country where multi-generational um uh homes are less common than in other part parts of the world. And there are definite advantages to ha having uh um multi-generations in a uh
close by if nothing else. Um but uh the other reason I just wanted to make sure I mention that is that often times and I think this is really not a you know great line of thought overall but often times there's a thought that um you know the seniors should not have to pay for
the schools um you know via tax support because what are they getting out of it and what I think here again just to recognizing what the return on investment is the schools actually benefit um those folks in ways that are probably
not well understood and that's something I think we can do um to uh better publicize going forward. >> Thanks Wilbur. Okay, so uh I only have two items. One is that um new this year to the board were two representative
roles. One was uh Anna's um arts coalition and the other one was an interfaith uh council liaison which is me. So uh Dr. Mammoth and I have been meeting with a lot of our interfaith um community because they are a huge part
of East Brunswick and um Holly Sarah who uh leads that organization. So that's been very valuable. I think it's something that um I I you know I I always wanted for that to exist. So I'm glad that it does because I think that speaks to our students, what their
values are, what our families want to see. um and that those meetings have been going well and yet to be continued. Uh the other thing was uh Lou and I were at our governance 2 training yesterday and it's they spoke about um the governance to for those that don't know
it's a board mandatory training in your second year on the board and uh it's about student achievement and finance. Um and they talked about this lighthouse study which uh is the largest board study ever done. And the study found
that if a board is successful that is directly tied to student outcomes. So you could have the best curriculums, the best everything, but if your board is not successful, those two things don't go hand in hand. And I just want to say that sitting here tonight, I know our kids are in good hands. Not just because
we have a great superintendent and a business administrator, but because I'm surrounded by all of you guys. And um I I know we're going to do great things and I'm I'm very hopeful. Um I know to Alexandra's point like this is such a different place from where we were last
year. I was in the audience last year but it was very um >> yeah we were crying. We were crying. Um so this is just a very different place and um I couldn't be prouder. So thank you all. >> Yeah. All right. Uh
>> thank you. >> Thanks guys. All right. Motion to adjurnn. >> Move. >> Oh, Lori and Wilbur. Oh, sorry. Discussion. Sorry. >> All in favor? Opposed? Abstensions?
Motion carries. We are adjourned.