the September 3rd, 2025 meeting of the Esau Meadow Planning Board to order. Um, I need to ask if there's anyone in the audience who might be recording this meeting. If so, please state your name and the method you're recording the meeting. Sarah Hayan and Reminder Publishing.
Thank you. So, uh, we'll take roll call. Billa Russell Denver Rob Terrell Rob director of planning
and and Mr. Punderson will be coming online. Okay. So the first order of business is approval of the August 19th, 2025 meeting minutes. Do I have a motion to approve? So move.
Do I have a second? Second. Motion made in second. Any discussion? Hearing none. All in favor say I. I. That matter passes. Uh first order business. Mr. Clerk. Case SP. Yep. Good start.
That sound right? Okay. Case SP-2025-07. Request for a special permit to operate a restaurant at 59 Mabel Street. Ceser's parcel ID 27-15-0. Located in the business zoning district. Applicant Sepi Bard 82 Pembrook Terrace,
East Long Meadow, Mass 01028. Petitioner here. Can you guys see me? Oh, we can hear you. Yes. You can't see me. Okay, hang on. Hang on. How are you?
Good, thanks. Are you here? there. You talk into the microphone if you could. All right. Did you know you had this many fans? Yeah, someone someone called me earlier. No pressure. All right. Not at all. So, we really just want to know about
the business, how long you you you know what it's going to be, the amount of traffic, hours of operation, that type of thing. Yeah. You want to ask, I can answer. You just give us a narrative to I've been in the business 30 years. Excuse me. speak right into the
microphone so everybody can hear you. Good. Yeah. All right. I've been in the business for 30 plus years. My family owns Milano's restaurant Chickab. Been owner operated for over 30 years like I said. So I'm not new to the business. So I've always wanted to be in
town and an opportunity came up and uh I'm look looking to do a modern version of a panini shop. Salad bowls, rice bowls, paninis, stuff like that. quick, fresh, and uh yeah, something easier than what I do today.
And your anticipated hours of operation? Uh 11 and 9. Not more or less 11:30. We're not exactly sure. Okay. I'd say no, no big difference between 11 and 9, the latest. And the number of tables you expect to have? Uh whatever the town allows me.
Okay. Um I know Jack Chen was there prior to I was. So whatever um I can I can have I'll take. Um, casual dining, no servers or anything. Something very, very casual.
Questions from the board. So, this is a public hearing. So, we have to open the public hearing. Do I have a motion to open the public hearing? So, moved. Do I have a second? Second. Okay. On the motion to open the public hearing, uh, all those in favor say I. I.
I. So, if there's anyone in the audience that would like to be heard on this matter, please step forward. I'll ask one more time if there's anyone in the audience that wants to be heard on this matter. Please step forward. Hearing none, do I have a motion to close the public hearing?
So moved. Have a second. Second. Motion made and second. Any discussion? Hearing none. All in favor say I. I. And on the main matter, do I have a motion to approve the special permit? And do we want to have any conditions? Mr. Shield,
I recommend going through the um action items first, Mr. Chair. Okay. Why don't you walk us through that? The microphone. Thank you. So, uh, if you go to page three of your, uh, permit application of the board for this petition, there's some action items that the board has to
go through one by one. The first is to vote to approve or deny the findings of the special permit SP25-07. Then next you have to take a vote to approve or deny any additional conditions on top of the standard that we include for all special permits. Then
lastly you have to vote to approve or deny the special permit overall. There are conditions worth discussing further up item six. Um can we go through them one by one Mr. Chair? Please. Okay. So the first condition is to discuss hours operation of the business or if the board wants to set a hard
close time or set a range that's up to them. The second is to put a condition where it says you have to have all the necessary licenses current and active in order to operate the business on site. So that's like uh sorry if you need any licenses from the health department or
any other business license from the town that's the third condition in the proposed conditions list is to state that any proposed signs to the business has to adhere to section 450-5.8 for zoning regulations which we'll be happy to show you later on in the
process. Fourth condition is to limit the number of seats inside a restaurant to 15. And of course, you can, you know, the board can fine. 15 15 is plenty. Okay. And then lastly, uh I did receive a comment from the um sewer and water administrator in our public works
department, the person in charge of the water to sewer lines. Um they suggest to put a condition here that says privacy operation of the business. You have to work with the public works department in town to have a cross connection survey conducted to determine whether a backflow prevention device is required
for the property. And of course you can work with your landlord on that. Okay. And have them reach out and and figure that situation. Yeah, that would be on him. I'm assuming. Yeah. But obviously you have to get that done before opening the open. Of course. That's what I mean.
So you mentioned closing hours of 9ine. What would be your opening hours? 11. Okay. 11 and 9. Okay. So if I follow this correctly, Rob, so we'll first um vote on the conditions about the hours of operation being from
11 to 9 and then items B through E. So do I have a motion to approve those conditions? So moved. Do I have a second? Second. Motion made and seconded. Any discussion hearing? None. All in favor say I. I.
So the next would be on the um planning board review standards. So I have a motion to approve those. Uh so I have a and a second. Thank you. Any discussion? Hearing none. All in favor say I.
I. And then on the move for all special permit, do I have a motion to approve? So move second. And a second. Any discussion? Hearing none. All in favor say I. I. All set. All right.
Hopefully you've got this many people at your open. I hope so. Good advertisement. Thank you. You're all set. Reach out to you sometime tomorrow about that. Yeah, that second part. Yeah. And like next steps and stuff. I know. I know. Everything was dug up before a couple couple months ago.
We can talk about for reach out to you. Right. All right. Ready? Thank you guys. You have to like angle that microphone away. That other one clerk back. Uh they're reading. Ready? Yep.
Uh case sites 20025-03 request for site plan review approval to construct four manufacturing warehouse commercial buildings combined total footprint of 455,936 ft with 390 spaces at 330 chestnut sess
parcel ID 18-38-0 located industrial garden district con Vincent Pacio Pacino 1260 Stelton Road Aqua New Jersey 08 8851. I got that right.
So, this will require a public hearing. So, why don't we just get the vote to open the public hearing out of the way? Do I have a motion to open the public hearing? So, moved. Second. Motion made and second. Any discussion? Hearing none. All in favor say I. I.
So, to everybody in the crowd, I see a lot of familiar faces from a couple of years ago. So, you might recall that Mr. Torsche was the chair for the majority of those hearings. I think he did a wonderful job, but I'm the chair
and I'm going to run things a little differently. So, there are going to be some rules of the road. We're going to tighten some things up and sort of some of you who've been here for a while and heard some of this, I'm sorry, but it's worth repeating.
We will have a civil discussion. Civil is no insults, no personal animosity to any of the speakers or more importantly to anybody sitting up here. So, if anyone even
thinks of accusing any board member up here of uh taking a bribe from a developer, which was done the last time, you had better wish that you don't because the very next day I will reach out to the Massachusetts Attorney
General's office and file a complaint. That's how serious I take this. Couple other things. If you stand up and you say, "Well, everybody knows this." Well, back it up. Back up what you're saying. And if you say you're an expert,
prove you're an expert. And if you say, "Well, everybody knows this, and I read an article," cite the article. Cite the author, cite the date, cite the page. If you want to get materials to this
planning board, they need to be received by noon of the previous Friday before the meeting. If you walk in here the night of the meeting and try to give us something, we're not taking it. We'll give it to Mr. Wila and he'll give it to
us at the next board meeting. All of us work. All of us are volunteering our time. So, a lot of us spend the weekends reviewing all this stuff that you send us. So, as a courtesy, you're going to do that
for the lawyers in the audience that you might be here representing clients. Save the theatrics for the courtroom. Don't want any theatrics. If you need to make a legal point, make a legal point and do it calmly. And no theatrics out
of the lawyers. And I'm a lawyer, so I know what they can do. There were previously 10 meetings on this issue the last time. We will not hold 10 meetings on this issue this time. That is just not going to happen.
Um going back to the experts, we had one instance where a individual who was a selectman in a adjacent community who stood up said he was an expert and when
questioned he said he got the information from the developer or not the developer uh an individual who then got information from another individual who had worked at Packard Machinery 30 years ago. That means nothing to us. Quite honestly, that is of no
information for us to make a decision on something like that. Be concise in your comments. We had these boards prepared. These are the things this planning board can use to make a decision.
And now I'm going to say something that will probably upset everybody in the room. It doesn't matter that there's 50 people in the room, 400 people in the room, and if all of you disagree with this project, if it meets the conditions
up here, it's our legal obligation to approve it. Am I in necessarily in favor of this? You know, my preference has always been housing for that site, but I'm not the owner. That's the other thing. I'm not
the owner of that property. And as long as they do what is allowed in that use, there's a leeway for a lot for them to do on that project. So you can stand up and you can certainly express your opinion that you don't like
the proposed use. That is absolutely your right. But I'm going to ask everybody in the room to address those concerns that you see up there because those are the things that we can use to make a decision. So, the format that I'd
like to use to start the meeting and first I want to thank our town manager. So, I went to him a couple weeks ago and said I want to get word out to as many people as possible about this hearing and I know that they did a robo text or
call. So, I appreciate that. Uh, LCAT did a piece on this. Thank you very much. The reminder had the reminder had a reminder about the meeting. So, thank you very much about that. And the effort was to get word out to as many people about what was going on. So, I want to,
you know, publicly thank Tom Christensen for doing that. So the format we're going to use is we'll allow the developers, the applicant to present what their new plans are and then if there are any lawyers in the audience
who are here uh representing people who might be opposed, we'll allow them to come in and remember just get to the points and no theatrics and then we will open it up to the general public. I'm thinking we're not going to go much longer than 8:30 this evening. So, uh,
if need be, we will continue till two weeks from now. And with that, Mr. Fitzgerald. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Is this microphone working properly? Just uh speak a little closer to it. Speak closer to it. Okay. Thank you.
Thank you for that laying out the u u process uh in such a clear manner. Um, I'm here. Uh, my name is Louder. Better. Yes. Speak right into it. And if you want to turn around, I I'm okay. The board okay with that? Yeah. Take it out.
Speak it to the board. Okay. Okay. That's fine. You hear me now? I can. Y. Microphone was a little high for a while. That's okay. I It takes me a while to get up to it. It's not a Verizon commercial. Thank you very much. So, my name is Frank Mitzerald. I'm an attorney with offices at 46 Center
Square in town. and I'm here representing the developer East Long redevelopers. Um we're here to present a new format for the redevelopment of the long vacant property and building at 330 Chester Street. This project has been thought
thoughtfully designed meet both operational efficiency and compliance with all applicable zoning, environmental, and safety regulations. Although we believe that the prior proposal met all appropriate criteria for approval of the proposed warehouse, what we're presenting this evening is a
smaller project with more open space and visual barriers to the operations. This new layout reduces the building's total square footage by approximately 100,000 square ft. A warehouse development on this site is an as of right use and justifies site plan
approval subject to reasonable conditions. The proposed development fully complies with all applicable zoning density and setback requirements and as such warrants site plan approval. We request that the board prove the site
plan review. You will see that the new design and layout addresses many of the concerns expressed by the board in the permitting process with regard to size, open space, traffic concerns, and neighborhood issues. Although at this time tenants have not been identified,
obviously all tenants occupying the site would have to be uses users authorized in this zone. I would like to now introduce our engineer Rob Lec and traffic consultant Jason Adams. As you can see, you will see from their
presentation that the new plan is professionally engineered and is accompanied by a comprehensive traffic study. Rob He couldn't tell which one I was the same. Uh, good evening.
For the record, I'm Rob Le from Marc Associates. Uh, here this evening with me is Rebecca Lee, also from our office. She's a professional engineer with our office. So, we're going to be handling the site planning aspects of the presentation this evening and then Jason will get into the traffic study. Jason
is a traffic engineer from Bman Associates. Louder. Okay, that better. Thank you. Um, so what you have before you this evening is this is the existing conditions plan of the site. This is the full uh set of site documents that
details all of the design related to layout, grading, drainage, still water and associated detailing for the site improvements for this subject property. This is the existing conditions plan. So as you're looking at this plan, this is
the existing footprint of There's also a significant parking area utilizing most of the site as it sits down. It's about 500 and something 53 530,000 square foot existing building.
But what proposed is to utilize the site by demolishing the existing building and creating four state-of-the-art warehouse buildings. These buildings would be one, two, three, and four as I present them. Uh
Chestnut Street is to the north or the top of my plan. This is Chestnut Street here. The large wetland resource area off the left side or west side. We are orienting all of the parking uh so that passenger car parking is towards
Chestnut Street and towards the south uh to the abuing properties. all of the internal workings or sort of back of house type of use related to these warehouses uh loading docks, access doors, all of that par etc. is all in the interior.
This was done to basically eliminate any sort of views of the use itself. So back of house again is hidden within the buildings. We have architectural plans that we'll be happy to the board can't see it. Yeah, we got to be
You got to put it this way. We got to see it. We We can see it. I can see it. You can see it. Yeah, we'll be all right here. Okay. Okay. Okay. No, sorry about the noise. So the architectural plans detail each at a vantage point of the building. Uh to
give you some perspective, this is a concept view uh at the Chestnut Street entry. So what you would see so the passenger car park front again another bird's eye view at the Chestnut Street entry. Um another concept view typical
building elevation. So this is again towards the building itself. So all back of the house uses would be here would be loading docks and parking for the trucks. So I'll give you some specifics on the details of the loop.
So we have we have 138 parking spaces located in there. Um we originally in the 122 floating docks we reduced that um in consultation with the planning department. They requested
additional green space, open space to meet specific internal parking requirements regarding landscaping. So a lot of the green space you see reduced the number of not only trailer parks, it's boating docks. They got 108 voting docks. We have at grade drive up
doors that are eight totally these buildings ranges in square foot 92,000 square feet to,000 square feet. Access is off of, as mentioned, off of Chestnut Street. There's two full service access points off Chestnut.
Jason will get into the details. Certainly answer any questions you have related to these site plans, grading, drainage, erosion controls, on-site storm water. That's all been accommodated, looked at specifically. There are sensor regulations that regulate those items and be happy to
answer and address any questions you may have after uh respectfully through the chair. It's okay with the chair. I just refer to Jason Adams to talk about traffic. Do you want to use the microphone?
I think this should work better. Oh, wow. Good evening. For the record, Jason. It's that Turn that one off. It's off. Oh, but I'll move in over there. Right.
Who are you? Where am I? Move away from maybe this thing. Move away from the front one. There you go. Sure. All right. That's great. Uh Jason Adams with Consulting. I am a registered professional engineer the state of Massachusetts. uh we were hired to review the traffic impacts of the
proposed project. Uh we had previously worked on the uh previous iteration of the project as well. So we completed a traffic impact study which has been submitted to the town. Um we completed uh all new traffic uh traffic counts traffic
analysis and the the new study as part of this project. So, I'll just walk you through the methodology briefly and then again, similar to Rob, happy to answer any questions that the board may have. Um, we conducted new traffic volume counts in June of this year during the weekday morning, uh, 7:00 a.m. to 9:00
a.m. and weekday afternoon, 400 p.m. to 6 p.m. periods. Uh, we looked at a study area, uh, that was very similar to the previous iteration that had gone through a couple rounds of peer review. We'd had some conversations with the town uh, to to cement that. So, we looked at the signalized intersection of Chestnut
Street and Shaker Road to the east, uh, the two project site driveways that Rob just described briefly, and then to the west, the signalized intersection of Chestnut Street with Dwight Road, and then just to the north of that, the the Dwight Road signal with Maple Street and William Street. Uh, those existing
traffic volumes were forecasted out to the future year of 2032 following Mass DOT guidance. Um we again discussed with both uh the town and pioneer valley planning commission to understand uh appropriate background growth and other developments to include in those future
traffic volumes. We completed a trip generation assessment uh using data published by the Institute of Transportation Engineers. Um the the previous study had been completed using the warehouse land use code. Um, this study could theoretically be completed
using the warehouse land use code, which would essentially result in a a 15 to 20% reduction over what we had previously shown, but we wanted to take a bit more of a conservative approach to how we analyze the vehicle trips. So, we we took the approach of analyzing two of
the buildings as warehouse um and then two of the buildings as general light industrial. So, they have they have slightly different trip uh passenger car and heavy vehicle trip distributions. Um and we forecast those vehicle trips onto the study area roadways and
intersections using uh a review of existing traffic patterns, journey to work data uh as well as a review review of the the regional trucking network. Uh so we completed a a trip distribution for both passenger cars and heavy vehicles. Um next in our study, we
reviewed the capacity analysis completed using the Synchro uh software. Um and that essentially allows us to understand if there's an impact caused by the pro the project at any study area intersection. So um our analysis shows that there's not a significant impact
caused in any of the study area intersections by the project. Um but as part of our review uh and as part of the project, we would suggest uh signal timing changes at the signalized intersection of Chesa Street with Shaker Road just to optimize those those
timings and offset some of the project. Um overall uh based on our review, we feel the project site has an appropriate build program uh to fit within uh this zone area here uh along Chestnut Street.
Um, turn it back to you. Cheryl, do you have any other presenters? Right. That's it. Yep. Okay. Well, before you go, so I'm going to ask the board if there are any special specific questions before they
step down. Well, I will. So, um can you give us a percentage of um truck traffic as it leaves the site? How many will go down toward
uh Enfield? How many is anticipated to go up Chestnut Street? How many is anticipated to go to the Rotary? And how many will go back through Long Meadow and Converse Street? A percentage in each one would be good just for the the truck traffic. Truck traffic. So, we would we would
expect about 50% of the truck to turn left out of the site and about 50% of the trucks to turn right out of the site. Um, we we really wouldn't expect that many of the trucks at all are going to go through the rotary um just because of existing traffic conditions up there.
Um so you know from from there um at the intersection of street and Shaker we'd probably expect about 30% to turn right to head south on Shaker and about 20% to continue to the east. Um heading to the west, um we
probably expect uh about 40% of the vehicle of the the truck trips to continue north on Dwight Road and and about 10% probably to to head somewhere in the vicinity of of William Street. So would those percentages correlate to
those that are coming to the site as well? Correct. Okay. Okay. Okay. Sure. Questions. There's a few other things I wanted to mention too, just in relation to the petition. Uh, so one thing to keep note
of, um, the applicant does have to get approval from the conservation commission after this hearing, uh, to either amend their notice of intent or to apply for a new one because the site is different from what it was before. Um, the applicant also needs to get a
storm water management permit award from the Department of Public Works because of the size of the building and the amount of storm water that's going to be generated. Uh, there is one request for a zoning waiver in this condition and that pertains to the landscape
requirement of needing 12% the total parking and circulation areas devoted to landscaping. the applicant was only able to provide 11, but the board does have that authority in their power to grant that waiver and that's listed as an action item later on during the hearing.
And lastly, uh I think the board should consider discussing with the applicants if they feel any sort of truck turning study is going to be necessary in this situation. The reason why I bring it up is because there were some concerns uh brought up at the last
conversations at the public hearings about this specific site. So, Mr. Chair, those are all the concerns I had comments I wanted to bring up. Um, so I'll pass the mic back towards No, before you do it, were there comments from town uh departments? Yep. So, comments I told you so two
comments I brought up actually from other departments. So the department of public works did bring up the need for storm water permit and then uh conservation within my own department and I had mentioned to you verbally that the board of conditions or intents could be amended no matter what. Um as for the
truck turning or analysis or maybe having a graphic uh that is something that I flagged during my review of this petition that's something that the board might want to consider as an option when further investigating this site. Uh obviously that is at the discretion of
the board as staff I frame it up to consider as an option and yeah Mr. Chair that's pretty much all I had uh aside from those comments. Thank you Mr. There's one item to our presentation we'd like to share. There was some videos that during the traffic
study that Bowman Associates was able to capture. Uh we do have that video. We have provided um a a USB drive also to your planner. If it's okay, we'd like to share it on that screen. I believe we're able to do so if that okay through the chair
behind us. Uh so Mr. In the traffic folder. Yeah, it's just opening. I just clicked on it still think. Okay. It's a PowerPoint document. Yeah. Okay. And there's a video attached to it that you guys want in the videos are in halfway.
So, keep in mind there's no I have it on my computer. Yeah. Do you want to take over and connect to your Yeah, up the discussion. Yeah, I can give a little bit of an introduction here. So when we were completing our traffic volume counts, we
did those through video uh which is a common practice that uh setting up a video a video for a finite amount of time. In this case, we looked at again the weekday morning and weekday afternoon peak periods. Knowing that that truck turning was a a large focus
of of both our project operations as well as sound concerns, uh we we did look through that video to understand how trucks are making those turns at the signalized intersection of uh Chestnut
Street and Shaker. Um so uh situated in the the top right corner that that is Chestnut Street heading from the project site. So heading uh eastbound towards Shaker Road and and this red truck that you can see in the top right corner will
be making a right-hand turn to head south on Shaker Road. What you can see is the white car in the top left corner. That is a car waiting to to head northbound. Uh so this truck is completing the right turn movement with
a vehicle in the opposite lane. So as in the truck has only the pavement to operate on. Um, and if we can play the video, you'll see the truck cleanly make this right turn, which I know is a a big concern and again is is a big focal point for our operations as well.
I need the other computer up here. Okay. Yeah. Can you share that? He hit it. He hit it. It's not It's not playing. Okay. Hey, um if you want to bring out the other computer we got into here start playing right now while the IT
while the IT team This isn't working. It takes a minute. Talk real quick. There you go. All right. While the IT team gets going. So, um I I know that there are, you know, no
businesses identified yet for each building. Could you give us an estimate on what you believe employment levels would be there? Um, can you also identify what the potential
building value would be for tax reasons for the town? So, can you answer those two questions? I I would like to ask um closer. I'd like to ask Mr. Marino to come up and answer those questions if you would.
Yeah. Mic's off. I can't hear you. The mic's off. Oh, he's asked Mr. Marino to come up and address those questions. The questions are what's the potential what's the potential total employment levels there and what are the value of
the properties after constructed for tax for real estate tax reasons? I as far as employment obviously it depends on who the user is. how automated they are or not. So that's difficult for me to answer.
I don't hear you. I said the answer about how many employees is difficult because it really depends on what business occupies the space. Is it some light industrial with some manufacturing? Is it an office? It
could be a mixture and it could change over. So um I don't have a an answer with any authority, Mr. Chairman, that I could provide. Yeah. Um, we could look into the averages.
Yeah, possibly. Okay. Uh, but I wasn't prepared to answer that question, so I apologize. What about potential uh value of properties as built out? Buildings as built out. I mean, from a cost standpoint for for the third time I'm going to ask
this. So I want everyone to hear the question is what would be the total value of the builtouts property including buildings once if it's developed is that a cost or or
so for for property tax valueuation purposes is it $10 million of buildings $20 million $30 million of buildings probably over 40 $40 million approximate. Yeah. Okay. Thanks. Okay, thanks.
Do we have our it fixed? Almost. Russ, can you hear me? Yes, I can. So, I would have I would like to see a truck coming west on Shaker Road and
turning south on Chestnut Street with a car at the stop uh uh stop line going north on Chestnut Street. I've watched a lot of trucks have a hard time making that turn. And maybe a suggestion would be to push the stop line for the cars
coming north on Chestn Street more towards the south. So it gives a larger radius for the trucks to take a left on Chestnut Street and head to the facility. Uh if I could just respond. Um trucks to and from this facility would not be
coming westbound and turning left to go south. Those would those would be coming away from our site. So So our site is concerned with trucks heading eastbound from the site or trucks heading westbound away from the intersection.
Why why wouldn't a truck be coming up Shaker Road from Route 91 and taking a left on Chestnut Street and then heading into the facility? That's going to happen and it does happen because I've watched it happen and it causes a problem for the people at the stoplight that want to go north
on Chestnut Street at the intersection. So, what I'm saying is if you put if you took the stop line and pushed it down the road a little bit, it'll give a lot more turning radius for the particularly long 48footers to take a left-hand turn and head towards the facility because there will be traffic going both ways on
Shaker Road. Correct. We we do have that. I thought you were Sorry, I I misunderstood. I I thought you were saying from from Chestnut to Shaker, but from Shaker turning left to Chestnut. We we have video of that as well. Okay. Get this going. But but it we do
have video of of a tractor trailer completing that movement today. Uh so again, here is the eastbound red truck turning turning right to head south on Shaker. Sevil, sevil, sevil
screen, folks. We're We're going to continue. When you finally figure it out, we'll we'll run it. Okay. Yeah. All right. Mr. Fitzgerald, anything else? Any board members have any further questions? Mr. Terrell,
um, looking at the site plan, what what runs between the buildings? Um, maybe that's a question for you. Separates the buildings down the middle. Is that green space? Um, green space. Green space. Okay. And is the thought So, it's going to be a two-way driveway around the outside of
the building. Looks like is that enough clearance for everything to happen? Again, it's deceiving looking at the plan, but is that enough space? Yes. Speaking of turning simple width, all the radiants. Um, so yeah, the idea would be that you can loop through the site in either
direction. Um, providing, you know, ample opportunity for the trucks to get into that internal area there. And that is that 60 ft through the middle. Is that enough for trucks to back in and out of? Yes, exactly. Okay. Um maybe one for the traffic engineer.
The this is going to come up at the the the rail trail. Has there been any thought with the statistics adding on the proximity of the rail trail to the intersection and how that may affect things stopping on busy days, sunny afternoons, things like that? Um we certainly account for the rail
trail with within our overall study area. Um, our focus is to understand where the the trucks and the passenger cars would expect to travel to and from the site. Um, at the rail trail, those those vehicles would be on Chestnut Street depending on if they're coming to
or going uh going away from the site. Um, so it's not a significant increase in the number of vehicle trips. It's we wouldn't expect there to be uh really any change between the interaction of of Chestnut Street and the the rail trail as a result of this project. Do you look at congestion at all if it is there's
many multiple stops for people cross things like that or is that not outside the scope? Uh in the sense that we we do evaluate things like the the delay experienced at the intersection so both at the project site driveways for vehicles entering and exiting the site. Uh those were all
determined to be of uh adequate and acceptable times. And then here at for example the the intersection of of Chelnut and Shaker and the other intersection within our study we look at the the difference of those operations with and without the project in place um
and and don't see there to be uh a significant difference. I don't know if we want to go back to this but this is that northbound left turn happening and then go westbound towards the site. And again, there are vehicles in that
turn lane. Um, so the the margin for error is really as small as it as it could be in an existing condition. Again, here's the white truck heading northbound turning left to go towards the site. Thank you. You're welcome.
Chairman, sir, just by way of as as I mentioned previously, this is a as a right use subject to cloud into that subject to the imposition of reasonable conditions and obviously one of those
conditions could well be a future traffic study to make sure that the it's not uh the records that are made here today are accurate. Thank you. All right, as promised, um, if there are any attorneys in the room who are
representing clients and wish to come forward, express what their legal points are, please do that. Looks like I'm the only lawyer. Oh, are there more? Oh, judge, you're a
lawyer, too. I'm sorry. I'll def I'll defer to Michael, let's sit down and and talk do your thing. All right. Um, let let me start. First of all, um, this is the first that I've seen or heard of the videos. So, we need
to get, please. They're certainly public record. The complete video. I got a FedEx exit to our traffic engineer Bob Misho and he needs to do a peer review. One thing that I've discussed with him in the past is there are four turns
there um from in in other words you only saw two and I think even the video shows how close that intersection is and one thing I've learned in other situations from Mr. me showed is that
depends a great deal on the experience and skill. And what you saw right there were two obviously very experienced truck drivers who made a very close turn with no margin for error. And this is certainly a matter for expertise. And so
I appreciate your comment about continuing the hearing because we do need to have our traffic engineer Bob Misho at MDM Consultants basically look not just at what's been selected but hopefully all the video also um
Michael would you just for the for the crowd can you introduce yourself? Oh I'm sorry. And also who you might be representing. I'm sorry I was trying to be as quick as I could. I forgot the basics. Thank you Mr. Chairperson. I'm Michael Pill and I represent the Fields of Chestnut Condominium and thank you for the
reminder. Okay. Um and I will find out how fast he can get that done. Also, um, the last time around there was testimony from one resident, and you may recall, she described how turning from Shaker,
I'm sorry, from Chestnut making a left turn onto Benton, um, she was terrified by a truck driver blowing his air horn at her because he could not make the turn from, um, Benton onto Shaker without crossing the center line. So,
what I can see now, and it's been ignored certainly by the applicant, is I'm going to ask Mr. Misho to do an autoturn analysis of the Benton and the Shaker. I'm sorry, the Benton and the Chestnut intersection, just like he did
previously for the Shaker and the um uh Chestnut intersection. And I will also ask him for his comments on the video. And with respect to the traffic study, I think the photos make it clear, and I
just saw the same thing down at Bradley uh a couple days ago. This is what's called a high cube warehouse. It's not the C it categories that the engineer used. And I think Mr. Misho pointed that out. It's not 150. It's not, you know,
the the the other use that Mr. um Adams mentioned. It's a high cube warehouse, IT 156, which is substantially more truck traffic, and I believe that's in his prior studies. I'm certainly going
to email to him first thing tomorrow. And um I'm hoping either the applicant or Mr. planner can get to me that USB drive. I I don't know if you could copy it tonight. Um address the board.
I'm sorry. Thank you sir. Okay then I'd ask the board if you could and through the board I'd also ask the applicant the faster they can get that information and for example if the applicant wants to do us the courtesy of FedExing it direct to
Mr. me showed or providing it to him any other way. They've got his contact information because they've got the same studies you've got from him, the faster he can get it and I will find out and um I will let the board know through um Mr.
Willa if am I pronouncing that with a name like pill? I try to be very careful. Um I will let um him know as quick as I can how fast we can get that done. I also want um Mr. Misho to do a peer review. I think focusing on the IT
categories because I think that this time as in the past is the fundamental flaw and the fundamental error in the traffic study. Um I'm trying to go through it as expeditiously as I possibly can. um to
respond briefly uh to attorney Fitzgerald with respect to the use by right. This time as last time there are a couple of significant issues that the applicant has never addressed. One is it says wholesale operations warehouse.
Wholesale means you can only make deliveries to retail customers and that is a use limitation that must be satisfied. And I would respect if, for example, you decide to approve it, that must be a condition. And I suppose we
can argue about what that means. But that might be something for a for a later day. Um, the other issue, and I've also brought it up in the memorandum I submitted to you, is the separate section for the industrial garden park
talks about objectionable. And admittedly, that's an issue lawyers could debate about, but it lists other criteria that I don't think the applicant has addressed. I think they've addressed the ones in the site plan section, but not in the separate section
that deals with industrial garden park. And let me take a breath and look at my notes, and I'll be as expeditious as I can. And I do want to thank the chair for the um the ground rules you laid
down with Like you all, I've sat through a lot of hearings where we all had to stay up late and listen to a lot of stuff that wasn't relevant. So, thank you so much for that. And I will try to heed that. Okay? And hopefully I'm not talking too fast, but I'm I'm trying to,
you know, get as much as I can in as fast as I can. Um, I think um I think that and you know I I realized I sent you a lot of paper. I I there was a
lot more last time and I tried to to focus on what I thought were the two memoranda with the key attachments and I also copied um the applicants lawyers of course and I'm I'm assuming and hoping they forwarded that on you know that it
got to Mr. Levc and Mr. Adams. I'm sure they would have would have done that. And I realize it's a lot of reading and all I can do is whatever you decide, thank you all so much for your service. I mean, all of us out here are getting paid and you all are here out of the
spirit of public service and I think you all need to be thanked basically for putting up with all of us. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Pill. Um the the final thing is not sure we can do that in in in two weeks. I've got to talk to Misho.
We we'll get it done just as fast as we can and um I guess I would ask uh if you could I I I'm not sure I I'll leave it to the chair. I know whatever you decide you're all going to be as
fair as you can and I'll leave it to you to decide what's the best way. Um and I'm assuming you may also want to do your own peerreview traffic study. Okay. that hopefully will include intersection analysis at both Shaker and Bettton. And now I'll be quiet. Thank you, sir.
Thank you. Um, so there were no other attorneys here representing clients. Representing clients may be late. Sorry about that. We're going to open it to the public. So I guess you could I'm representing some of my neighbors
who can't be here tonight as an attorney, but I'm also representing myself. I would never turn down Mayor Hurley. Thank you. It makes you up very well. Thank you. So, um, the chair, I have to speak very loudly into that.
Great. Thank you very much. My name is Attorney Mary Hurley. I have offices down at this uh the basketball hall of fame and um I'm here representing myself as a as a land owner at Fields of Chestnut and I'm
also representing some of my fellow land owners or unit owners there as well who couldn't be here tonight and uh I would like to first through the chair ask if you would ask the traffic engineer he talked in terms of
percentages If he's talking a percentage of 50 trucks a day, that's one thing. If he's talking in terms of 150 or 200 trucks a day, that's another story. So, if you could ask for some
more clarification on that, I'd appreciate it. Okay. Okay. Uh secondly, the um issues relative to traffic on Chestnut Street, I think is key. And
the points that were raised the last time around about coming from Chestnut or the fields of Chestnut down Chestnut Street to um what's the name of that street? the one
bed um is almost nearly impossible if you've got a truck of the size that we saw in the video tonight coming the other way. In addition, um
this seems to be a regifting of the original plan. Not in terms of the wrapping that it's in, but in terms of exactly what they've done to the original plan, modified it, but you still have the same types of
issues. The only thing that I see that's any better is the fact that the trucks would be in the middle. But talking atund I think it was 28 they said loading docks and I'm not naive enough
to think that that is 120 trucks a day to load and unload. So, I'd like to see some significant numbers which can make a significant difference in the amount of traffic that we're talking. And that's really
the issue in terms of quality of life, in terms of traffic safety, and in terms of the ability to get in and out of all the streets near where uh of a chest, whether it's Marshall or any of the other side streets or any of the other
businesses. So to that extent um they can't tell us the key question in terms of numbers on what's going in those buildings and I understand that but I think there has to be some kind of
a limitation as to what types of uses can be made and are we talking a distribution center that's going to have not only the big trucks but also the little trucks that are coming out of there as well. and was that taken into
consideration by the traffic engineer? Those are some of the questions that I think need to be answered before anybody can say this is okay or it's disaster. Um I have the greatest respect for all of you for taking your time. Uh there
have been enough boards, commissions, and whatever else that I've been on that I I know the amount of time that you put into it. night. Want to thank you on behalf of my fellow residents and um I know that you're going to do the best job you can. So, it's a quality of life.
It's a safety issue from in terms of the traffic and unless they can give you numbers. 50% 30% or 10% of 20 or 50 or 200 or 250 or 300 makes all the difference in the
world. And they didn't say that. So, you know, um, whatever use is made of that land, it's got to take that into consideration to get out of Chestnut Fields of Chestnut. Now, there's one entrance,
one exit, the same way onto Chestnut Street. And I would say out of the number of times that I traveled in and out of there, only on very off hours can I get in and out. If it's in the morning or if it's
at night after 4:00, forget it. You got to wait and wait and wait. And some people like including myself, I use Marshall Street when I'm coming from um the center meadow and they've got a mirror there
to let you know what traffic's coming, but the mirror only goes one way. If you've got a truck coming the other way, I think we should have another mirror. Mhm. Good suggestion. Yep. Thank you. Thank you. Would anyone else like to be heard on this matter?
Please step forward. Call my name. Sure. James Whan. Your address, please. 33 Fields Drive. Okay. I'm a civil engineer. tired. Um, with respect to the study, my
main question that I was trying to get your attention, which I knew was out of line, was how many how many trucks they were saying 20 go this way, 40 go this way. And and also in the videos they showed, truck made the turn, but there
was an awful lot of traffic and every one of those videos that showed the traffic turning. One question was asked with respect to the study as to how many I think you asked it how much how many employment are we going to get how much employment will we get they couldn't answer the
question how can the building be designed if you don't know how many people are going to work there so you can provide parking spaces if there's more people in parking spaces are they going to park across the street or along Chester Street I don't understand how you can say you don't know how many people are expected to
live there to work there excuse me Isn't that a prerequisite of designing a building? How many people are going to work there? I I don't know the answer to that. I I believe there was a statement said
that there's 198 parking spots. Is that correct? No, I think it's more than that. 298. Three 398. 398. 398. So there's So there's 398 parking spaces allocated for the employees
plus eight handicap. Yep. 398. So there'll be 398 people working there. Um if it's if it's run it's a full capacity and they they're trying to make money on running the deal.
So I'm not going to ask the engineers to address every question this evening. So what we will do and they will do is they will follow up. There will be another meeting. They will review the questions that have been asked and they will come
back with the information that people are requesting. Perfect. Because we would be here until 4:00 in the morning if Okay. I would ask that they modify the drawing to show arrows turns how many anticipated turns
in each direction every day of the week because as I said those trucks made the turn in the video but there was an awful lot of cars. So if you're going to double or triple the number of trucks and and add four times as many cars
it's not going to be as easy to make those turns. Thank you. We did sign it, but there's no pen. Keep that. We'll leave it there. All right. Thanks. So, John Power, 17 Broadleaf Circle in the fields at
Chestnut. Right. Couple of things that I took note of during the presentation by the developer. Um, they indicated eight loading docs
in the presentation. Is that correct? Address the chair. Yet all of the online documentation that I went through today shows 122. I would ask that the from my memory they said 122.
Yes. Yeah. So I was taken it back by the 1080. Okay. If that's a change I'd ask that they update the information available to the public on the website. Yep. Also the traffic study referenced number of appendices
none of which were available online. So, I would ask that the traffic study appendices also be posted online so that they can be subject to public review before Well, thank you. Thank you for raising that. So, Mr. Willa, why don't
you explain to everyone where they can find all these documents for review? Absolutely. So, we have a physical copy of the 300page traffic study that was too large to fit on the town's website because when you upload files on the town's website, there's a certain size
you can't go over. So, in order to have it available in the public portion facing the website, had to reduce the file size to just the summary and all the relevant information and exclude the appendices. So for folks who want the appendices printed and given to them,
they can come to my office or I could try to email it to you in a separate Google cloud file link is the only way I can transport it to somebody. Uh fortunately the file size too large to have all together. Even if you was separated as appendix A
B I could do that and I can make that available to folks who want a copy of it because if they were small enough then they could go on to the town website. Yeah. No, we could definitely do that. Okay. Thank you. That was all I had. Okay. Thanks.
Anyone else like to be heard on this matter? Yes. We'll let people go first. Okay. Sorry. Hi. My name Oops. My name is Mike Porgan and I'm a resident of the fields in
Chestnut. And when I was listening to the traffic study, they said they were basing two two buildings as being warehouses. On the proposal, are there only two warehouses? Is that the limit? Or could
all four buildings be warehouses? Because it seems to me that they we're taking 50% of two buildings and saying it's not an impact. At 50% of four buildings, is there an impact on traffic and on left turns? And how many I will
reiterate what the previous people said about how many trucks is that? That's it. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. My name is Paul Agladuchi. I live at 35 Fields Drive. I have a question for the board. Um, I may be wrong on this, but
so if you can clarify clarify it for me, I'd be happy. During the first presentation, things ended up in court. And I believe the fire department chief, the police department chief, and the head of the TPW
all spoke with their concerns about the project. And because of some irregularities with the minutes or with the agenda, the judge did not allow those to be part of the public record. So my question to the board is, are you going to be asking
those people to come speak again and state their concerns so it can go on the record? I'm glad you brought that up because there's a real fallacy or there's a real uh miscommunication from someone who
wrote a letter in the reminder and got everyone really wound up. So to go back to the original plan, so this board in 2023 minus Mr. Fana and Mr. Terrell voted to
approve this project with restrictions on what could go through the corn or go through the intersection of Shaker and Chestnut. We were requiring uh that when they came
out of the site they had to take a right and then they would go down essentially go down Shaker and then we were requiring them to go down Benton to uh from Long Meadow to go down Benton and then hang a left on the street where the
post office is. So essentially we were trying to avoid uh residential the residential areas from taking an impact. What happened is the town then requested this board to reconsider
that because the police chief, fire chief and DPW felt that that would uh really make a negative impact a more negative impact on that intersection.
So when they spoke they spoke about the proposed changes that this board wanted on the flow of the traffic. So they were opining to the changes that we proposed and they indicated that in their opinion
that created more problems than what existed pri you know prior to this proposal. So if I'm not mistaken, the their original opinions on this proposal
or on the former proposal is they had no comments regarding any issues associated with traffic. That was and I see Mr. Bill shaking his head and agreeing with me. So to say that the police chief and the
fire chief and so forth had issues with the traffic, you know, with the original proposal is incorrect. Okay. Thank you. Y anyone else like to be heard on this matter? Mr. Chair, on Zoom that have their hands
freeze. Okay. Next one. Hi. I'm not an expert in anything, but my name is Janet Hackson and Stacy. I live at 36 Chestnut Street, and I will bypass my comments in light of what you said about community spirit and the
importance of that. I'd truly like to see housing in that area, but um and I feel like the traffic has already been pretty well covered with the one comment that I do think there's a domino effect when people try to avoid increased truck
traffic of increasing the traffic in the side streets and the neighborhoods around that as well. So that it isn't just the main streets that will be affected. I don't think I'm not again I'm not a I don't have videos and um traffic expert numbers to talk about
that but that's only kind of common sense that as people try to avoid the trucks they would use the side streets and increase the traffic in some of those smaller neighborhoods around Chesnut Street as well. But I am an expert walker. I am I walk almost daily.
We have a lack of adequate sidewalks in East Long Meadow and we in fact had a fatality of a walker right in front of our house on Chestnut Street quite a few years ago which was very devastating for um my our children especially um who saw
that um and I so I have many challenges with walking. I was thrilled with the bike trail. I thought that was a great safe alternative for myself, for people with young children who are teaching them how to ride bikes for people who like to walk their dogs. Um, a safe
alternative that didn't involve putting sidewalks everywhere in the town. And I I can't I can't see, again, I don't have numbers, but I cannot see how this will not impact that. I walk on that bike trail a lot. People often don't stop,
even with the flashing lights. I've had trucks go through. I've had cars go through um with the lights flashing and me walking and I just can't imagine that it's not a significantly increased um safety concern. I don't know how anyone
could study that. And um I don't but walking on it, I know it. I know that the trucks and cars go through it. And I've seen people yell at the people that go through, the walkers yelling at the people that go through and it would just
um would in that increased truck traffic would significantly impact that both if they go around on the post office one if they go down that street where the post office is as you said you know there's the crossing there as well as the one on chestnuts. That's it.
Thank you. So we'll um we're going to go to a couple people on Zoom if we could. They've been waiting for a bit. So, hi. Um, this is Jack Moore. I live at 13 Fields Drive. Uh, I usually attend these
meetings in person. This evening I could not do that. I apologize. Uh I have a couple of issues with the traffic study and uh based on my experience also uh I've been traveling the last several years back and forth to Boston and
Google Maps invariably on my trip home takes me down Route 84 coming up 220 which will put the trucks coming down Chestnut Street from Summers Road and going through Chestnut and Prospect also
two intersections which are chest and prospect we all know is very dangerous intersection it's labeled that way by the town uh that should be included in the traffic study no question in my mind about that I don't know the board feels but I think the traffic study has bypassed
several critical areas in their study I would suggest they look at chest and prospect chest and summers and uh pleasant into the rotary those are going to be all traffic areas that are going to be in inundated by truck traffic as Google maps or wave
will bring them on those those roads uh whenever there's a problem on mass turn bike 291 or 91. So uh the other the question I have for everybody we have a probably approximately a 14% increase in parking
spaces between the truck the docks and vehicle parking yet they're predicting a decrease from the original estimate in car total traffic cars and trucks. Um
I worked in business for a long time. If I was going to spend 14% more on something, I better have a increase in productivity, which would mean an increase in traffic, not a decrease. So again, that's all I have at this time. I want to thank the board. They've been very patient with me over the years, and
I appreciate their their job they're doing. So, thank you very much. Thank you. I bring in the next person. That's it. Okay. I got Hello, my name is Betty Jane Bordon and I live at 44 Fields Drive. I had one
question um for one of the speakers that spoke earlier about percentages of cars which would go each way and zero would go through the center which we know is the correct answer. But when I use my GPS and I want to go the mass pike, it
takes me right through the center. If you have drivers who are not from this area and don't understand about the Rotary, I foresee that as a real problem and I have no idea what those percentages were based on. Yeah. So, thank you very much.
So, um thank you for raising that issue. So before you leave, okay, so um you know in anticipation of this hearing, I asked a number of questions of the town manager and our planner and one of them
was what is the authority of the planning board as it relates to traffic and being able to limit types of vehicles to go on different streets in town.
And the response that I received was that is kind of considered what they refer to as a rule of the road. And rules of the road in East Long Meadow are under the purview of the town council. So if there was an initiative
to uh limit, you know, uh the a size of a vehicle on a certain street, that is not a planning board purview. that falls under the purview of the town council. So, just to let people know that. Okay.
Okay. Anyone else like to be heard on this matter? Then you Okay. Hi, Archie Berg 16 Fields Drive. I'm not an expert on anything either, but I'm a little confused about something. Um, I'm
just cur I I don't understand how there could be predictions on the traffic and the number of trucks turning which directions if there's not any clarity on what the use of these buildings is going to be because I've heard warehouses, light industrial office.
So, one thing that people should do is familiarize themselves, I think I said that right, with the uses that are allowed in the industrial garden park district. If you went to the town ordinances, you would see the uses that
are allowed in this district. And if this were to be approved, any of those uses that are in the industrial garden park that are allowed could go into that building. Right. But I guess my question is, how are they determining the tra how are they what are they basing the traffic
studies on if they don't know what the use is going to be? I that's fair point. Yep. Fair point. And my other question is, I know we're not supposed to talk about hours of operation, but I like the way that they've put the
trucks inside the buildings like in the center portion. If the trucks are backing up and beeping all night long, it's still going to affect the neighbors in Great Woods and the fields. And I'm wondering if there's any way that they
could add some kind of sound barriers to the outside of that inside portion. So those are my main questions. Thank you. Thank you. Kept you waiting. Sorry,
Ellie Schuman. I live at 16 Bell Vista Drive. Um I'm sort of seconding uh her last comment. in a project like this, are there restrictions or covenants about hours of operation or days of the week? Um, would this be a Monday through
Friday? And I know no one may know that because there are no businesses there yet, but yeah, I would be curious, is that legislated or anything? Let our planner
discuss that. Yeah. It's a very good question. Thank you for bringing that up. Uh so in terms of what is going on tonight for this public hearing, the planning board is reviewing the development of the buildings and the site and the construction of the site.
So hours of operation for any businesses that go in the building would happen during the respective public hearings if applicable for that specific business later on. Say if they have a business that wants to go into one of those buildings that requires a special permit, they have to come back to this
board for a special permit hearing and then that's when the hours of operation would be hashed out at that public hearing. There's also specific businesses that could go in here too that are allowed as of right and of course that would not require planning
board hearing. And obviously folks can find this information out in our zoning ordinance in the use table which is table 3-1. And if you go to where it says industrial garden park, those are the types of things that could go or
could not go in these buildings. Thank you. Thank you. Anyone else like to guy over here? Sure. Um, hello. My name is Sean Burnup. I live at 82 Lee Street. My wife and I have lived here for a few years now and
really enjoy East Long Meta. Uh it is not lost on me uh that you've explained as the previous folks have explained in the last meetings you know earlier that this board uh legally isn't you know
determining what is or what isn't allowed use of this space. I understand all that. Um, so I guess I'm just offering my hope as an East Long Meadow resident, uh, as many people have expressed, and again, I'm not an expert
either, but I sort of look at it as a smell test. I look at what it would look like to see tractor trailer trucks going up and down Peas Road. I look at what it would look like to have tractor trailer trucks going through the intersections
at Prospect and Peas. I look at I it it just it's incomprehensible to me to see tractor to trailer trucks go through the East Long metal rotary. Um I no matter what traffic study someone shows, I just can't see it. So, with all that said, I
guess my hope, and I don't even know if I'm allowed to express this, but I'm going to, is that this board in whatever authority it does have to restrict the development of this property takes all that into consideration and approaches
the situation from a what possibly can we do to protect East Long Meadow from this development versus, you know, allowing the development. Yeah. Thank you. So, we're we're going to take a not a break, but we're going
to I'll get to you, Matt. We will I I think there have been enough questions about traffic counts and the like. So, if we could spend five or six minutes with the developers representatives to maybe answer some of those, then we'll
go back to public. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Before Jason gets into the traffic details, there's just a couple items I'd like to clarify. Um, the plans were submitted to the planning department and they were
revised based on some comments from Mr. Witchell, your planner. So some of the numbers related to loading docks, parking spaces, etc. have been slightly reduced because of the green the introduction of the green space. So some of those numbers and before the next public hearing, I will go ahead and
clarify those items so that that's clear for the board and clear for the the general public. Good. Uh I've been doing my best to keep notes. Um, so hopefully I can address a number of the comments here and again happy to get into more specifics as the
board sees fit. Um, I guess I'll start off with just the general methodology. This seems to be something that came up in terms of how do we project the number of vehicle trips associated with a development that we don't know the end user. It is certainly a challenge and and what what my responsibility is as a
professional engineer is to aggregate the information available to me which is the size of the buildings, the allowable uses, the parking, uh the overall dynamic of the site and to project as again as best I can following industry standard what could the potential be for
passenger cars and heavy vehicles. Um, again, the previous iteration of this was was a warehouse land use that has lower passenger vehicles, but a higher percentage of heavy vehicles. And and we heard from from the board and from the public that that the number of heavy
vehicles was of particular concern. But there also is a balance between the number of passenger cars and the number of heavy vehicles. um in order to understand as best we can given the information available how both passenger cars and heavy vehicles could impact the
site and the surrounding areas. We selected a methodology that took 50% essentially 50% of the development as warehouse, a higher percentage of heavy vehicles and 50% as general light industrial, a higher percentage of passenger cars and blended those
together to again as best we can approximate a development that may or may not be higher in heavy vehicles or higher in passenger vehicles. Um those are the numbers that we took. We we presented in our traffic impact study a comparison if it was purely warehouse so
that that's available to the board and to the public. We then presented our blended rate which we feel is a more accurate representation. Could it all be warehouse? Yes, that would be lower in passenger cars, slightly higher in trucks. Could it be some other blend? Of course. But we're again we're doing our
best within the available information. And uh hopefully that's appreciated at least in the effort that we're making to in this study. uh I think it was slightly misrepresented. This this study actually analyzes the impacts of the project with a higher number of total vehicles than what the previous study
did. We we went above and beyond in terms of trying to understand is this project going to have an impact that we should then mitigate. Okay, that was our approach from the project team from the start and I I do credit the development team. That's not the it's not the approach that every developer takes. Okay. Um during my presentation I I did
leave off uh one key piece of mitigation. Uh the the project team is committed to evaluating the integrity of the pavement in the vicinity of the project site. We would undertake a monitoring program uh to understand if the project has any undue impacts to the
the pavement in the vicinity of the site and and would replace that uh as as needed. So to the point of of the truck deteriorating town roadways and infrastructure, we don't want that to happen either. that that impacts our business as well. Um, unless there's further question, I'll
get into just a couple of the specifics. Uh, Mr. Chair, do you mind if I ask a question of the applicant? Sure. So, one question I had was that I was looking through the traffic study and I noticed you put what's called level service factor for the intersection that you
looked at. So when you get the moment, could you explain what that is to the folks in the audience and then describe the Shaker Road Chestnut Street intersection and the impact of that if this development was to happen on that site and what you would do to mitigate
that? Yeah, absolutely. Um so level of service is in traffic engineering terms a way that we can grade essentially in as if you're receiving a report card in school intersection operations. So it's it's on a a letter grade from A being the best to F being the worst. Uh
generally uh level of service D or better is considered to be adequate acceptable. Uh it's been mentioned that there are a lot of vehicles on on these roadways. We're not we're not denying that. That's an existing condition. We're trying to understand how this project would impact those existing conditions. Um so when we complete our
traffic analysis, we assign a letter grade to each of those movements at at each intersection within the study. Um, the intersection of Chestnut Street and Shaker Road currently operates at a level of service C. So, it's it's a it's
pretty good. It's it's not the the top operation, but I don't think anybody here would argue that it is. Um, that's a level service C during both the weekday morning peak hour and the weekday afternoon peak hour. That that is what it is under existing conditions and into a build condition if this project was not built. So just the
existing traffic volumes out there and natural growth in the area of the site. Um with this project during the weekday morning peak hour that intersection is shown to continue to operate at level service C overall. And during the weekday afternoon peak hour we do show
that that intersection would deteriorate slightly from a level service C to a level of service D. Once we see that, even though it's a level of service D, which is still again by Massachusetts standards really anywhere, it's it's fine. It's adequate. That is what we want to make sure it's D or better uh as
an overall intersection operation, but we would propose traffic signal timings to help improve that that traffic signal. All right. Thank you. Um and then I guess just maybe a couple more points if the chair would allow
if if they related to questions that were asked by people. Yes. Where the information? Yes. Uh so within the the traffic impact study again that that is available online and I I think that separating out the appendix is is great and if you need any help with that just let us know. We can we can do that as well. Uh that the
traffic impact study does present the number of both passenger cars and heavy vehicles during both the weekday morning and weekday afternoon peak hour. Just tell the public. Sure. What they were. Yeah. Uh so during the both peak hours weekday AM
and weekday afternoon um using our approach and methodology that the truck traffic increase would be expected to be one or two vehicles from each direction. I think people are more interested in knowing the total number of trucks in a day. In a day in a day. So in a day uh the
total number of truck increases would be about 95 to 100 entering and 95 to 100 exiting over the course of the 24 hours. So at a at a 50% if you're looking at the number of trucks coming to and from the west so taking a left out of the
site over the course of a day about 50 entering the site from the west over the course of the day about 50 and the same is true of the east it's again okay split about 50/50. Okay, thank you. Okay, now we'll reopen it to anyone who would
like to be heard on this matter. I know there were a couple of people that were wanted to get up and talk. Ma'am, yeah. And and we did receive a lengthy email from a Rick Marble. So, I just want to let him know that we did received it and
uh it's part of the public record. Oh, you snuck in before that woman. Oh, go ahead. Sorry. Go ahead. Sorry. Um, my name is Lauren Life. I live at 36 Fields Drive in East Long Meadow. And, um, first and foremost, I'd like to thank you all for your service. Um, I know it's a lot of
work. I've sat on a board myself for many years. Um, my I think I'm the person you referred to when you said she saw her light flash before her. Um, but I'm not going to go there, but I think I'm that person. My question to you is this. I am pretty much positive that I
heard the fire chief say that they do not send fire trucks down Chestnut Street. So, I appreciate your they they do not send them through the intersection is what he specifically said. Okay. So, that's even better in my what
I'm trying to get at. Um, I look at a firet truck a lot like I look at a a tractor trailer truck and I just I fear for the safety of our community and when I've had to make really tough decisions and I've had to read a lot of things
like you do um I tend to go with my gut and I I I respectfully ask you to do the same thing. Thank you. So I I just before you leave, so we can't use our gut, okay? We have to use
those factors that are out there. Just as a reminder, I do understand. Okay. Thank you. M I'm sorry I jumped and found it. I'm Lynn Silverstein and I live at 59
Fields Drive and um off I look at Chestnut Street and it's just a narrow little two-lane street and everybody who's spent winters in New England knows there's ice and snow and a concern of
mine is having large vehicles on that street during inclement Er, okay. Thank you. The floor is open. Yep. Uh, gentleman with the hat. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can you just
let us know who you are? Yes, I'm Dickly De Bald. I live at 375 Chestnut Street. My concern has to do for not only those people on Chesnut Street, but especially also the fields of Chestnut.
Has any study been done about the air quality that will be impacted if 50 or 100 or 150 trailer trucks transgress
the uh so I so for a little history here so um I mentioned earlier that initially this project had been approved but at the last minute we had made some changes to the traffic flow coming in and out or
primarily going out. So as part of that approval, there were something like Cassie correct me, but I think there were like 23 conditions that we put on and one of them was completion of an air quality
study to get a indicator on um existing level what it was anticipated to go up and then u also require and we can still do and require air filtration systems so
that when vehicles were idling they would have to put you know their exhaust into these air filtration systems. So it is this board can do something like this and so we still might but great
question. Thank you. Hello, my name is Alice and I live on St. Joseph's Drive. So, I travel the length of Chestnut every day from top to bottom. Um my two main questions um like the gentleman said on Zoom earlier um Chestnut in Summers and Chestnut and
Prospect. Are we going to look into the aspect of the trucks going up that way with those intersections? I know heading up Chestnut to turn left onto Summers to then get on St. Joseph's. I can be sitting there at 8 o'clock in the morning for a good 5 10 minutes trying
to make a left-hand turn. Um, also going down Chestnut to make a right-hand turn onto Dwight at rush hour traffic in the morning. Again, it bottlenecks really bad. Are we going to look at that in a section as well with the traffic?
We will. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. Hi folks, Marilyn Richards, 342 Pinehurst Drive in full disclosure, town counselor and former planning board member and chair. Um, I'm going to go historically back to
when we developed the stores, the the shopping center at the at the town center. At the time, we had no idea what the impact would be. the stores were empty. We knew that there were certain uses, how many trip generators would we
have and all that sort of thing. And before the special permit was adopted, um, a mitigation plan was put in place. And that was adopted with the special permit. In the event things fell apart,
in the event we had gridlock, in the event we had just people couldn't passing through the center, the mitigation plan could effectively kick in. Um, it never happened. And it never happened because people tend to find
their own way to navigate through something. And we still have gridlock now and then in the town center, but that's because all the school buses let out and you just have a lot of people going through at that moment in time. But generally, it worked. With this
situation, I've been sitting back there trying to figure out how do we put in place a mitigation plan in the event all hell breaks loose when it's operational and we've got trucks everywhere. I I don't know. I don't know what the uses are going to be. Um, I just want to
plant the seed and maybe the traffic engineer could possibly help us with what do you do if we get into a situation where it's not working. And so that's the seed I'm planting. That's all. Great. Thank you.
Okay. Thank you. Yes, sir. Good evening. Page 137P Road. In full disclosure, I am also a town counselor and a past planning board member and chairman. Um,
I know this is a new site plan and at the last one I brought up a couple thoughts to consider and because this is new, I just want to bring them back to you. Um, the first is at the bike trail uh to put in a or have them install a
motion sensor instead of just the switch that's there. Uh the motion sensor would automatically detect someone walking on the bike path and turn on the lights automatically. They have them in South Hadley um near the colleges and they
work extremely well. Um my concern is I drive through there now a lot of people don't cross over to push the button and with the heavy truck traffic I just think it's something a little bit of caution for very inexpensive money. Um
the second thing it's it's difficult to see on the plan. Um one of the questions or one of the thoughts was to add shrubbery along the rail trail. Um I'm not sure if they did if they didn't. I believe the last plan had a retaining
wall there. And my thought is just as if you're walking along the bike trail, this building is going to be extremely close and some additional plant material would be nice uh in that area. It would be nice if all the businesses along the rail trail put up nice shrubbery.
I would agree and especially considering this is a brand new construction, this is the time to bring it up because the board has the authority to do it with that. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Paige. You need me to sign in? Please do.
Any other speakers? Yes, sir. Hi, my name is Excuse me. My name is Mark Sullivan. I live at 12 Clover Lane. And uh just to kind of go back a little bit here, I I I think the emphasis on
the traffic issues have been focused on Chestnut and Shaker. And I heard the traffic engineer say that his study shows that it's uh it's uh getting to a C evaluation and migrating to a D
evaluation. I think it's a huge omission that uh in the traffic study has not been talked about with relative to Chestnut and Benton Drive because if Shaker and Chestnut are a C, I would
express an opinion that Benton and Chestnut when that truck tries to take that turn is an F. Thank you. Yep. My voice projects. That's why I'm kind of moving that microphone a little bit. My name is Roland Bullduck. I live at
110 Smith Avenue here in town. And uh I think I'm your truck expert. If you need my biography, I will give you a biography of so um so in the eyes of a court, I believe an expert needs to be someone
who is has had uh articles published. Okay. Or andor has uh actually testified as an expert at a trial. Okay. So the use of a word expert we need to be very careful with. Okay. I've had things published. So, you
certainly have been very expert certainly a very experienced truck driver. I've had things published and I've also testified at a federal hearing. Great. Okay. Good. I've also been driving for 41 years.
I've been competing for 29 years. I'm a just hit 20 time state champion, fivetime national champion, two of which are grand champion. I know every square inch of the vehicle and that's my expertise is knowing the
limitations of anything that I drive and that's what I do in competition. Uh, one thing I did want to know is how many trucks. We've already gone over that. Uh, the trucks turning on the Shaker Road,
the video that they showed, what is the experience of that driver? We don't know. We've could have gone through many vehicles making the turn, but this one showed up. Did not look like a 53 ft trailer. It looked like a 45 or a 48 ft
trailer. There are differences. The the tandem axles in the rear of the vehicle were also forward. That makes turning radius of that vehicle much more convenient. vehicles that travel on road, sleeper vehicles that we call them
that have the bed in the back. They drive otr over the road. Well, they travel with their axles as far back as they can legally. It's about 41 ft from the kingpin of the vehicle where it connects to the tractor to the center of the rearmost trailer. So, do we know the
pin setting on that trailer? Things like that are what I look at when you're going to show me that video. Excuse me. I got to get old and dig my cheaters out. Uh, you're showing
a new building. It's an egg. Four new buildings. Well, the last building had the same square footage at approximately 450. No, the the former proposal was about
565,000 ft. This is approximately, and I'm not a mathematician, 20% less. Okay. Okay. I I have to commend the builders on trying to make something that fits into
our community. Uh the only thing that doesn't fit is almost the same number of trucks. My question is going to be what is that in the middle between the buildings? The green things is that the green space
with trees. Yeah. What is between it? Are those parking spots? And we talked about, if I got the number right, the it was 398
parking spots. 398 parking spots. I'm wondering how many are small vehicle cars. How many are actually tractor trailers? That will dictate who goes into your facility. Uh from what I see, there's a lot more
truck parking spaces than there are car spaces. So, I just would like to hear the numbers on tracked trailers versus car. Uh somebody just you did talk about an exhaust collection system. Yes. Uh, these have been proven not to
work. And the reason being, let me explain why. The reason being, your exhaust stacks are 13 ft off the ground. So, putting that pipe on the exhaust stack is a little difficult. The other
ones are on the ground. The ones that don't have stacks are on the ground towards the center of the vehicle. So, it's kind of hard to put that one on as well. So can I just So this is the narrative here. So for people who want to know numbers
122 loading docks, 166 trailer parking spaces 108. They corrected 108. Oh, excuse me. 108. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry.
Just a point of clarification. the plans uh the parking for the plans got reduced. I'll give you the numbers quick so everybody can them. All right, so trailer parking we're at 138. Okay, want to write that down. Loading docks we're at 108.
Drive up um drive up doors at great doors are is eight and total parking spaces after reduction in green because of the green space is 365. Thank you. Eight for available cars. Eight for building.
No, eight total. Total. Okay. How many cars? The trail. Say that again. Passenger cars 365. What about the trailer parking? Trailer parking 138. Thank you. Loading docks 108 and then at drive upd
doors total eight. Thank you. Thank you for coming. So just just before you go, just for let people know, so we do so we're going to take testimony until 8:00. We we will vote to continue this to a
forthcoming meeting because we also have additional business that we need to take care of this evening. So it's now 7:45. So your comments can go to 8:00 or you can save some time for someone else. Whatever you'd like. I would like to save some time for someone else. I just
have a couple more questions. Uh, and a couple statements. Uh, the question I have for the study, uh, let's modernize our study. Anybody who's going to come into this town, I still use a GPS day in day out, even if I know where I'm going
because the new GPS's are also showing you traffic patterns and how to get around them. Uh, without saying what GPS system I'm using. Uh that needs to be done from Route 84 coming in from Massachusetts. That has
to be done coming in from Hartford on 84 and 91. And it has to be looked at from coming down from Northampton. If you put that GPS uh address in, how is it going to tell
your truck driver how to get in here? because that's what he's going to follow. He's not going to follow percentages on how people should be coming in or out of this facility. They're going to follow the latest traffic
uh helper that they have in their truck and that's the GPS. So, a lot of them are using truck GPS's. I don't think that would matter here because there's no low bridges or anything like that or bridges that cannot handle weight. So, that wouldn't be it. So the GPS study to me would be very important because
that's what the truck drivers are actually using to get in here. If it puts them through the rotary, then you cannot tell me that it's 0% going through the rotary cuz they will come. Uh my life has been revolved around safety.
The competitions I do, if there's an accident, incident, I cannot compete. So I am revolving around safety 24/7. and I've got 41 years now of safe driving in the trucking industry. Uh, and I like
standing on those laurels. It's what I strive for and it's what I would strive for for 95 to 100 trucks in 95 to 100 trucks out. So 200 vehicles when you have parking for 246 vehicles, 108 in
the docks, 138 in the parking lot. So 246 is the magic number of what's coming and going. Not saying you're going to fill every parking spot, but it's it it is a little bit less than the 378 that you were talking about a couple years ago.
Uh the level of service in this town, I look at this town where I want it in an A rating and a D-rating is not good for anything in this town. Uh, I want Esau Metal to strive for a class A rating no
matter where we look. And if we can't get it, we strive for it. When we look at an intersection right now that is a D-rating, it's got to drop when you add 246 vehicles. So, anybody else would like to
speak? Thank you very much. Anyone else want to speak? So, do I have a So, just uh before people run out, just to let you know what we're anticipating
doing. So, obviously, our planning director will review all the comments, all the questions. He will be in contact with the developer to go questions that might still be outstanding.
It is our request to the developer and their team. Rob, I'm not taking more testimony. So, not testimony, just logistical. No, just Okay. Just my logistical. Logistical. So, um there will be communication back
and forth on what you all have asked that maybe have not been answered because we want to be as transparent as possible. So that we will reconvene and we will hear again from the developers and I'm sure Mr. Pill will have
comments. Um and then we will as a board be crafting conditions that we believe are appropriate based upon what we hear from town departments, what we hear from the planner, you know, what we heard, what we all know because we all live in
town and we all travel that, you know, that way as well. Um, I think I'm probably the least senior person living in town at 23 years. Um, but I certainly have traveled enough of that uh section
of town. And then our decision is based on what is in the best interest of the entire town. That's what it calls for. What is in the best interest of the entire town. So, um I'm going to ask the
board members, um there was a request that the other traffic engineer for Fields of Chestnut be given a little time to review the study. Uh Mr. Pills seemed to indicate
that two weeks was not sufficient to get a review and get the planning board the information the Friday before our meeting. So, is there an interest in putting this off one month? No. Okay.
If it gives them the time to get the materials, we got to I think Well, you've got to express your opinion. If it gives them the time to get the materials, then Well, I I will take a motion. So, who would like make a motion on the continuence? Rob, do you want to add
something before we do this? Um, it's up to you, but uh, I would say pick a date and time that is on our typical meeting schedule. Yeah. If you need help finding that out, just let me know. I'm thinking October 8th to October 7th.
Uh, see, yeah. Uh, October 7th. That works. Is there a motion? So move. Okay. Second. Okay, I make a motion. Y
motion and motion has been made and seconded to to continue this hearing until uh October 8th at 6 o'clock. October 7th, excuse me. October 7th. Yep. At this location? Um so any discussion?
So by roll call, Mr. Punderson, we'll start with you. Yay. Your name. Uh Peter Punderson. I Mr. Terrell. Hi. M chair Swellow I I'm an I and Mr. Fansa. Hi. So, thank you all. Um, and I want to
tell you this was one of the most respectful crowds we've had on a contentious issue in a very long time. So, I personally thank each and every one of you. My advice to all of you, go on the Tom website and become familiar with all the materials that
have been submitted and the materials that will be submitted in the next few weeks. Thank you. And if we could all we'll take a fivem minute recess before we begin our visiting. So we're uh back in the meeting and I think uh our only uh
our only issue is uh your report. Sure. Sometimes the role Mr. Chair, we definitely needed to to get back in. Well to No, no. I'm just saying to identify which board members voting so they get confused for the minutes. Yeah, that's fine. That's fine. Yeah, go
ahead. All right. Let me uh get this out now. I'll take that microphone for you if that's okay. What can I hear? Yeah, I know. There's nothing left to hear. Anyways, this is on. I'm sticking around the good stuff.
I can't hear. It's not hear me at all. Yes, you can. Awesome. All right. Uh so for folks who are still here trying to listen to the meeting, Mr. Paige, us give my director's report. Um, so I did put the next six upcoming meetings
for the board's uh review. Not seeing any conflicts or cancellations because of upcoming holidays. We do have a public hearing scheduled on September 16th. Uh, it is for our first detached ADU site plan view and uh, this one's
going to be on 31 Rollins Drive and should be a smooth hand. We have a actually on October 7th the meeting that we just had continuing this hearing to um Ken Kuma from Piner Valley was going to attend to give an update on the housing production plan but we could ask
him to attend a different meeting. I was going to say push that one somewhere. All right. Uh so some upcoming planning department stuff. I'm still working on the mix center district bylaw. The first reading before the town council was delayed till their September 23rd
meeting. September 9th meeting I have been told is a full agenda. Um and that comes from maybe more than once a month question on Mr. um more than once a month. I am still working on the traffic and
pedestrian survey reports. Um the online survey for housing production plan update is now live and folks can access the online survey on the town's website. there is a link and there will also be physical locations available for
booklets at the senior center library and town hall by the end of the week at the latest. Lastly, on Tuesday, September 30th, Jeff Speck of Dempsey will be presenting the results of his conceptual redesign of
the Centertown area. The goal of this project was to create renderings of the Centertown area that promotes walkability and community connectedness. The event will take place at the senior center from 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. Shar. That was all the updates I have today. So, um, last summer or last year,
you told us the town had a at dollars put a sidewalk. My question. Yeah. Well, I didn't know the sidewalk for my question. So, the so I believe I'd like to start walking.
I saw her down earlier. So I believe time they redid the road section this month. It's starting right now. Next week they're supposed to start according to the town manager. I have
but we do have available and the contractor was selected a few weeks ago. Okay. Uh we are going from the inter so we're starting from forgot the street that's starting but it's starting from the middle of Westwood. Melwood all the way down to uh
Maple Street. Maple to the high school. Yep. They're expanding all the way to the high school. Okay. So, we're using two separate funding sources to do this whole project. Okay. Half from the grant, half from the T. All right. All right. Motion to adjurnn. So, moved. Second. Second. Any discussion? Hearing none. All in favor say I.
I. Thank you. Say everybody.