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All right. So, I'm going to open the Tuesday, April 21st, 2026 meeting of the Esau Metal Planning Board to order. The uh first item is um I need to ask if there's anyone who is recording this

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meeting. Please state so and the method in which you're recording the meeting. Again, I'll ask if there's anyone recording the meeting. If so, please state your name and the method you're recording. Hearing none. Uh the roll call. >> And Henderson, >> Bill Fansa,

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>> Russell Denver, >> Cassandra, Cher, >> and Robilla, plan director. Uh the first item is approval of the meeting minutes of April 7th, 2026. Do I have a motion to accept? >> So moved. Second.

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>> Any discussion? Hearing none. All in favor say I. >> That matter passes. >> All right. There are no public hearings scheduled. The first uh item under new business is informal discussion 95 Shaker Road site plan review approval

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site-2025-06 parking situation. We would ask that our planning director just kind of uh give a recap of where we are and why we're why the petitioner is back in front of us. >> Yeah, sure. So, um

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uh Mr. Graham is the applicant 95 Shaker Road for site planer view. is constructing a uh don't remember the exact size of it building for office spaces and he's doing a first floor restaurant. Believe the building is going to be three stories in height. Um

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there's a situation in in sorry pertaining to the parking layout. Uh so Mr. did have a public hearing at the previous planning board meeting uh where the board approved his project with conditions and one of the conditions was

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to take 90° angled parking spaces and make them all 45 because of the one-way route of access in the parking lot. And after discussions with the applicant and with the chair um outside the meeting,

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it looks like there's going to be an issue with parking spaces having to be taken away in order to make the layout work. So uh Mr. Chair, I would pass it off to Mr. Graham to give us a better uh background on the situation at hand. >> Hi.

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Hi. Good evening everybody. Um, yes. I I think the um first of all, the the site engineer Rob Lev is on vacation, which is the reason he's not here uh as the expert. But um

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in in summary, the angled parking, it's a nice idea, it just isn't practical. it um it results in 20 less roughly 20 less parking spaces. So we go down from 72 to

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to 52. And in addition, we lose the central landscape green space that was in the parking area. That would that would get eliminated. It

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would make it less visually desirable. Um, it makes it tougher on the handicapped access. We'd have to do major revisions to sidewalks, curb cuts, ramps. Um,

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so it causes a whole bunch of of of issues, but primarily it's loss of parking, almost one-third of it. And um I've spent considerable time trying to increase the parking

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from previous discussions, including putting all the the uh groundwater retention ponds under the surface to get up to 72 spaces. So to get knocked back down would would really be

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a problem uh for us. Um, there's no regulatory requirement for angled parking. I realize it's it's it's a a reasonable idea, but it it it just greatly reduces the viability of of the

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project, I think. Um, so Rob, are you able to put a map >> the area? I'm trying to trying to work on that, but my internet's being kind of weird right now. So once I figure that, I could definitely put it on the screen.

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So you own the chapter lane building, right? Okay. >> So how much parking is on either side of the chapter chap >> currently? Um let me see if I have and and are they separate parcels?

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>> They are separate parcels. So if you merged the parcel, would it be permissible to use that parking around that building as part of more parking for the proposed threetory building?

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If you can't get it up, I I do have the drawing that I stick in front of you which would illustrate the chapter line parking and >> Okay. parking. >> Yeah. Would you mind doing that? I just

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trying to see how we can make this work. So So this is the chapter building as it exists. >> Yeah. >> This is the parking. >> Okay. >> Okay. >> There's parking here, right? >> There's some parking here. Yeah. >> How many spots are here? >> There's probably

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um >> I think there's like two or three, but they're not marked. Yeah, there's they they kind of park uh horizontally with the street right here. >> Okay, the plan just

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>> and this is is the new parking design. Do you mind if I >> Oh, Bentley's Barber Shop. Yeah. >> Oh, okay. So, that's more horiz. more. >> Yeah, >> it's um >> so it's parallel with the street >> one two three

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>> and so Rob is would that be permissible if he merged the lots or is would that overburden the density? >> So you could technically merge lots if you wanted to but there's another issue here I think was raised in that letter

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that pertains to the accessible parking spaces. Oh, I I >> typically for design of handicap parking spaces, you want them to be 90 degrees because of the van loading access that's required. >> So, I don't know for a site of this size to be ADA compliant, I believe they have

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to have one ADA parking space per 10 parking spaces. Um, and if you have one aspect where you have a regular parking space that's 45, then ADA space that has to be 90. Like you have to account for that as well. So that might that might

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add significant pressure for parking design that may or may not work on site. And in theory, yeah, he could do that. But I think overall with the handicap accessibility issue,

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that might throw in a wrench in things. >> It thought I don't have any problem just leaving it the way it was. Okay, >> I understand if it's going to cut down on that many parking spaces. I didn't realize it was going to be that needed

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that number. >> Yeah, >> there's not that many parking spaces at the barber shop anyway in Chapter Lane's building. >> Oh, I know. >> Yeah. So, >> I I I think we all want this project to work. >> Yeah. >> You know, so

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Rob, you're the one who had made suggestions about additional signage to make it one way. >> Yep. So it in your professional opinion, >> do you think the signage

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will help facilitate the oneway in and out? >> I do. >> To the point to the point where we go back to the 90° parking. >> Um >> it was a good idea. Mr. Paige had a a good idea. But yeah, I I just think, you know, nowadays you see more parking lot

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design, even if it's one way, incorporate the 90° angle because the issue that I brought up with ADA accessibility, but yeah, you could you just have to have signage more frequently placed. So if somebody's backing out, they can clearly see that if they look left, it says do not enter,

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do not enter arrows that point one way to signalize that they have to go out that same way to leave. So, if he puts enough signage there to make it clear and obvious that if you look around a parking lot, it tells you where to go, it could work.

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And sometimes I've seen people, >> it's across the street >> and I've seen people that point it doesn't work at >> one way around the building where the dentist doesn't work at Rocky's >> that's a mess. >> There's also not much signage at Rockies either. Like they have like the entry and exit sign on side and

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>> I just think if you have enough signage, if you invest some money into extra wayfinding, >> it'll make the parking lot a lot easier to operate. >> And even the 45 degree angle spots, I've seen people go out the other way very occasionally in other parking lots

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throughout the region. So it's not just a unique situation to this site. And if you put enter, big sign with enter on the uh this side of it with arrows, those big arrows I put down and do not

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enter on the other side with the arrow pointing out on the the tar. You have to be pretty lame not to get the the drift there. >> I think it's many no matter how many signs you put, somebody's still going to there's going to be the you know what I'm talking

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>> that's the guy you wonder how he gets down in the car and gets down to center town anyway. >> No, you're right. But I mean I mean we're just we're all looking for safety here too. You know what what's the easiest way to accomplish this because I want to see the project as well. But I mean it was worth the discussion. I understand. I like I said I wasn't aware

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that it was going to cause that many the loss of that many parking spaces. And >> I think what made the plan look good was the the uh you know the area between the the parking lots, >> right? >> Heavy trees or shrubs or whatever. >> Yeah. It it makes a big difference on green space,

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>> right? So there sounds like u a general agreement that the initial parking plan with additional signage would suffice. >> Yep. >> So this is informal. So how do we incorporate that into a uh >> condition

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>> into the condition? >> So you already have a condition that talks about way functioning about the one-way right of access. So that's already covered. um the condition you put about the parking spaces because it will result in that many parking spaces

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being taken away. You can just leave that condition out because it technically violates the zoning ordinance and just go with the other conditions and then file afterwards. They call it administrative error. It happens from time to time. And there's also situations where conditions

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are not recorded appropriately. So, it's not uncommon to see these issues suffice during public hearings. >> I'm good. >> There's not a vote, but I take it everybody is in agreement. >> Yeah. >> Okay.

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>> Okay. Yeah. Good. >> So, people have been asking us already. When when will there be movement at that site? >> I'd like to break ground this month actually with with some site work. And um we're finishing up engineering as

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we speak. So once the engineering is is done, we can submit uh permits a permanent application to the building department. But the site work will start any day now. So

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>> sounds like a plan. >> All right. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Okay. You take this back. Sure. >> Yeah. I'll reach out to you tomorrow. Uh what's the next? >> Okay, the next item is zoning discussion town center

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mixeduse zoning bylaw. So I will uh kind of reiterate what we talked about last week just as a opening statement. So the you know there has been a town center

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planning committee um in place that has since dean that has since disbanded. Um there were numerous hearings in front of the planning board, numerous hearings in front of town council. There was a

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joint meeting of the town council and the planning board. I think initially dealing with the concept of chapter 40R. Um there were subsequent studies done and brought back in front of town council. Town council discussed the

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concept of a further center town district. um they did not believe that it was what they were actually had in mind and all the parties had in mind and subsequently I believe councelor Leiden put to get or

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put forward a draft proposal which was then further discussed by the town council and that has been forwarded to this planning board to see whether we can come up with an appropriate um zone

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in the center district which may or may not include housing. Um the we've are also tasked with trying to create what we believe is an appropriate boundary for any additional zoning um in the town

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center. So we do have a draft that was put forward by the planning director forwarded to members of this board this past week. If someone needs copies, they're right there on the lectern. Um,

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this is strictly a draft. Um, we are going to, uh, go a little bit further. We are, we've asked the planning director to identify four or five kind of towns similar size to East

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Long Meadow that have had town districts and have done zoning as it relates to that. and what has succeeded and what within the zones and the types of businesses and or housing have they put

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in that has made it a success or not. Um we may or may not do official visits to those communities as well. Um but we're we're looking for kind of peer entities. Um, with respect to the issue of housing,

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um, we'd want to see what type of housing was put in and why it was successful or not. So, this is just the first of what will be uh what we've given oursel a sixmonth

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timeline to explore all of this and bring something back to this board for approval or recommendation to the town council. So, if you're here this evening, thank you for coming for your interest and I'm going to turn it over

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to our planning director to start walking us through what what we're going to talk about this evening. >> Of course, I do have to apologize for that second point you brought, Mr. Chair. I have not yet finished my research into the we call it case studies for other communities that have adopted districts of this magnitude that

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alter the character of their downtown. Usually a t this is a big undertaking and there's a lot that you have to keep in mind when moving forward with this type of zoning. But I do have some slides that are going to appear on this TV right here. I asked folks if you can't see in the back way up there a little bit. Um if we have

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to angle the TV a little bit further, we can definitely do that. But we're just going to go through them very quickly. Um and just give some context and background of everything we are discussing tonight. So just give me one second to share my screen. Hey Sean, is there any way we can Oh,

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never mind. You fixed it. Um, all right. So, the name of the district, Town Center Mixed Use, acronymed as TCMU District. Uh, these slides are just a discussion and talking off point just to go through basically what we've done up

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to now and then the few topics we're hoping to bring up today for further discussion with the board. So, just give some background as Mr. Denver mentioned that there was a uh committee for an earlier zoning amendment for the specific area. Um that

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original committee was called the Centertown District Steering Committee. Um they were active from 2024 to 2025. Believe Mr. Graham in the audience was a member of that committee at the time. Uh and they're focused mostly on doing what's called a 40R zoning district. And

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basically it's it's mandated funding from the state you receive when people build there. So, it's kind of like a way to get the state to incentivize development in a specific district. Um, there was a discussion, a meeting between the planning board and the town

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council. The town decided to move away from the 40R zoning. So, now we have this idea, how do we bring mixeduse zoning to the center of town? And this is when my department kind of took the next step and created a draft bylaw

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which incorporated a lot of what was in the bylaw created by Pioneer Valley Planning Commission who was the higher consultants in that first uh era there. And this this attempt at a mixeduse bylaw moved away from the 40R focus just on

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the mixed use but there was a lot more housing components in there. And after having that reviewed by the town council, it was further decided that we had to kind of take another stab at this mixeduse bot, which is why we're here today. Um, there was a presentation at a

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February meeting of the town council where they reviewed renderings provided to the town council by a consultant that we had hired called VHB. So what VHB did and I can show you some of those renderings on the next slide. They took the the language from that earlier draft

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which had a slightly higher uh density which means that you can only build a certain number of of housing units per acre and they made these mixed use building 3D models. So I'm just going to show you what they look like just to give you some background.

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I mean here's a few right here. I can zoom in on them, but you basically have buildings here with first floor commercial space and about on a site of this size, it's about a half acre, it's about eight or nine units. So, that's

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kind of example of what that would look like. Here you have like the style with the pitch roof. You have an accessory building here for storage. Uh down here, you have a more walkable first floor space with more residential on top, more intensive looking. then over here

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different styles of buildings you can explore with the zoning at that time and then if you're looking at bigger properties so for example that last slide showed Stacy's dry cleaning that location this is the Carlin building location and what the site could have looked like with that earlier rendition

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of the bylaw um the yellow here indicates first floor commercial space where you can walk up to and then all above and even back here is residential units with parking associated. So, you know, those designs don't really matter at this point. Those are kind of to

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visualize that first draft of the mixeduse bylaw, which has since been, I would say, remodified to what you have before you today. So, just to give more background on the current bylaw, the draft you have before

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you is 17 pages in total. We're amending six different sections of the zoning bylaw, including our zoning map. Uh we're adding a new district and calling it the town center mixeduse district, which covers most of the downtown area around the Rotary, then leading down

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Shaker Road all the way to Chestnut. Again, none of this is finalized. So, the map is probably going to change a few times. We we're well aware of that. Everything in this whole document is probably going to change a few times. That's just how zoning bylaws work. They're not meant to be the same forever. There's going to be a lot of

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amendments between now and 100 years in the future. Uh the sections that this draft before you is going to cover include section 2 5.6 which is our off- streetet parking regulations 11.2 which is our terms defined otherwise known as

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the definitions. So there's some new terms that we're throwing into this that have to be clearly defined so we know what's being referenced or else that creates a lot of confusion, a lot of vagueness. You should never have to ask what does this mean to enforce zone regulations. It should be clear. It

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should be very simple. It should be easy to understand and easy to utilize. We're also looking at two, we call them appendies to the zoning regulations. The first of which is called table 3-1 which

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is our use regulations. And basically what that is, it's a chart that shows where in town you're allowed to have a certain type of business building type. So for example, you only have single family homes in residential districts or certain districts where it's allowed. You can have restaurants

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here but not there. You can have a retail store here but might need a special permit here. That's what that documents regulating. That's what it's in charge of. Then we have table 3-2 which is our dimensional regulations. That talks about size of a property to

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make it buildable. How much frontage along a roadway you can have? What are your setbacks? How many housing units can you have on acre? How much commercial space do you need to have? How tall can your building be? That discussion itself is going to be

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very tedious, very time consuming. That's not going to be a part of tonight's discussion, but those are some things that you should definitely start thinking about in the meantime as we're going through a lot of this. And there's one newly created section that's not in the existing zoning regulations today,

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but we're proposing a new section called 5.12, Town Center Mixuse District. And the whole point of this section is to specifically talk about the purpose and all the general requirements of this newly created zoning district that we're

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putting in. Um, purpose is definitely one thing I was hoping the board could touch base on tonight once I get to that slide. >> Um, and just give some background on general requirements and what we're pertaining to. We're pertaining to, you know, how many units can you have on a property? >> Tree planting and open space

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requirements, shared use parking. Does anybody know what shared use parking is? Are you familiar with that term? >> So, the hope with that is to have parking go across properties to help make multiple developments feel connected to each other. So, a big push

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for this zoning initiative is to create more walkability. How can you make buildings and sites more connected to each other? It turns out the biggest prohibitor to that is actually strict setback requirements of certain aspects on the property. So, for example, if

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your building set back from the street, but there's no set back from the sides, you can connect buildings to each other even if they're owned by multiple people or you can separate them. Depends on the project. You also have design guidelines. That's another

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big discussion to have there as well because that takes a lot of thought. That takes a lot of what do we care for the most with building designs. Is it the architecture? Is it the style of roofs? Is it the number of windows on the first floor or the second floor? There's so many things you can think

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about design guidelines. It really warrants a careful discussion. You should never rush design guidelines. I always spend a lot of time figuring out what the community wants and can benefit from the most when creating design guidelines. And one last thing too, we

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have um a zoning tool I called it called density bonuses. And again, this is up for discussion, but if there are certain things that we want from this bylaw that is not easy to make people kind of do, you can incentivize it with additional

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of something. Usually people use additional housing units. Economies of scale show that the more housing units a developer has, the more money they're going to get, the more willing they're going to cooperate with what we want from them. So that's not something that

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has to be included in the bylaw today, but is food for thought at a later time when we're kind of going over these discussions to determine what course of action the public and the board want to go in. So, um, I'm going over to today's

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discussion, Mr. Chair, but these were the three topics that we wanted to kind of dive into. I understand we probably won't get to all of them today. Um, but I think the first and most important thing is to really just take a look back, look at the bigger picture.

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Why are we doing this? Why do we want this? What's so important about having a mixeduse district in the center of our town? What do we as residents I'm not a resident of Esau Meadow. I just represent you. But residents of Esau Meadow want to see in your town. Do you

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want more business? Do you want more housing for people who can't live here? Do you want more walkability? Do you want buildings that look like and feel like East Law Meadow? Do you want buildings that feel like you're in a neighborhood that's connected to yours?

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Do you want more public transit? Like what is the objectives? And just going on to the next slide, this is the purpose statement that was provided by the town council in their draft. And Mr. Chair, if you want me to read each one, I could. Um,

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>> all right. That can everyone see that? It's on page five of the draft under town center mixeduse TCM district purpose. I think these are really well done. really I I I don't know about all of you, but I

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really think it really >> it hits home to everything that I'm interested in seeing a mixed juice district look like. >> Yep. >> And I would say >> in order to make that third point work, so the third point there in the purpose statement is support market rate housing

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that is compatible with surrounding neighborhoods. So the only way to make a market rate housing work is to find developments and developers that are willing to build it. How do you get developers to build market rate housing anywhere? They have to get a good return

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on their investment. If you're designing the zoning to where it's going to be prohibitive and say we want three housing units per acre, that's it and that's what we want to see. A developer might look at that and say, "That's not enough units for me to make a return on my investment, so I'm not

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going to invest here." The worst thing a community could do is find ways to say to developers, no matter how big or small, we don't want any development here. Go somewhere else. And I think there's a way you can balance these things out. You don't have to go crazy. You don't

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have to go overboard. But you can also do it within reason to find a way for market rate housing to become a thing in this area or to have it be built nearby. It's all about making that return on the investment for the developer that's really going to have them want to build

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in this district. I would say even for number four, encourage development patterns that support remote work and shared workspaces. I don't know if anybody here is familiar with uh business incubators or even co-working spaces, but they're becoming pretty popular. The thing is, they're

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not going to be the product of new construction. Usually they go into existing spaces or even developed redeveloped mill buildings or even old buildings that already have the bones but the cheapest thing to do is just to gut it and build something new inside of existing shell. Most of the construction

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that you see nowadays is mostly either for large industrial or commercial buildings or for residential buildings. And I think in order for this district to work, you kind of have to leverage one of those two things. And I doubt the residents at East Law Meadow want to see a giant factory building in the middle

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of their town. >> And currently that's allowed. >> And that's currently allowed, especially on the Carlin building. You can put a giant factory there if you wanted to. >> So I I don't I've lived in town coming up on 23 years. I've never heard someone say, "Yeah, let's put a 200,000 foot

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industrial building in the center." >> Yeah. So, one of the very first things that we would do is have to eliminate uh industrial buildings within that zone. >> And we could definitely do that. And I think the way that we're trying to work

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with the zoning is that we can say no to that type of development in this district. >> And there there are still existing industrial buildings. >> Yeah. >> That have been vacant, not reused. And

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so that's a perfect fit right there. >> So who here has been to the mill works complex in East Hampton? >> I have. >> So that project was genius from start to finish because they took this old building that was falling apart. They found all these investors to come in and

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they're using it as a bunch of different mixeduse type of uh developments. You have apartments, you have uh an arcade, you have a pretty sure there's a bowling alley there. There's a bunch of restaurants. There is a hot store, but I'm not saying bring that here. But the point I'm trying to make is for

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commercial redevelopments to work, they usually take advantage of existing buildings. And it's really hard to get a commercial developer to come in anywhere and build something that's less than a,000 100,000 square feet. That's just not practical. The economies of scale

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don't work in the favor of that developer. So, you kind of have to look at existing market trends. You have to look at development trends. So, you have to look at all these different complicated things that are battling with each other behind the scenes and make that work for our zoning. How can

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we take advantage of the current climate and put that here and make this district work? That's kind of what we're trying to figure out today. >> So, why don't we take a minute, a break? So, members of the board, comments on the purpose statement? Anything you

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think should be added, should be deleted, should be changed? What's What are your thoughts? >> I would I would put number five as number one personally. >> Okay. >> That's the most important thing in my mind. >> Yep. >> Bill,

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>> I mean, I'm good with I think it's it's very well done. It's very well written. I think it gets to where we want to be or where we want to start. And I can support Pete saying, "Yeah, we want to strengthen Eastog Meadow." That's the bottom line here. >> Yeah. I can see. Yeah, I can see moving

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that up to number one. >> I think they're well written. I don't don't know that the order matters, but their own equal >> I think it's just for emphasis, but yeah, I agree. It's, you know, whatever. >> Yeah. So, um, this is not a public hearing, but since we have people in the audience, I thought if anyone would like

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to weigh in before we go start talking about boundaries, anyone want to weigh in? >> If you wish to weigh in, please. The microphone up here picks you up a lot better than back there. So, we won't be able to hear you from that far back. >> I know. >> Okay. All right. No one wants to weigh

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in. You sure? Marilyn said enough. >> Okay. All right. All right. >> Yep. So, I I guess from that we just switched number five, number one. That seems to be the first the first edit of this bylaw. Congratulations, Pete. >> All right. >> So, the next page, uh this is our

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district boundary that's proposed. So this boundary was originally brought to the planning board through the initial center town district steering committee. >> So that was the center town district.

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This is now the town center mixeduse. >> Okay. All right. So >> acronym >> acronyms >> but but for just so you can just imagine it. So, you're coming into the Rotary on Main Street on North Main Street and you're essentially right around where

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Mson Savings Bank is and you're working the back of Mson Savings Bank over behind Rito's um to Stacy's Cleaners to the where the union and the uh union has an office and the accountants have an office through

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the chocolate shop around to the congregational church um all the way down Shaker Chestnut. >> I come back and you hit center field kind of work your way around behind

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Carlin Combustion >> Baldwin Street around Rockies and uh Health Tracks and essentially that's that proposal right there. So, I do want to emphasize down Shaker to Chestnut, but it's on the right side of Shaker

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where Shaker Bowl is, not on the opposite side of the road. It's the opposite side of the road's not going to be redistricked to this district. It's just the right side where you have Shaker Bowl. Believe Laantent Tina's down there. Then, uh, Fre, not Frigo, Freo's the other side, but uh, >> yeah,

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>> why doesn't it go to the other side? >> So, I believe that's how they designed initially, but you know, we're open to suggestions here. This map is not final. I mean, if gray blue area has Shaker Bowl and AW Browns. They're commercial properties as well. >> All that right there and then back here a little bit. Yeah,

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>> the blue one. >> This one right here. >> Yeah. >> That's all commercial. >> And I believe the original intention here was to get rid of a lot of those um properties that used to be industrial buildings, like small scale industrial, and that's why they chose that specific strip. And there's a lot of

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redevelopment potential there, whether it's rehabing existing building or just building brand new. Um, that's my understanding. I wasn't really a part of those earlier discussions creating this. Now, I know that northern section there on the left as well goes up the rail trail and then all those properties back

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there which are also undeveloped. Um, and I think it stops on the right side near where the residential properties along White A and I believe Elm Street as well as Pleasant. So the blue So the blue is where

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>> that's Browns and >> pizza shop. Browns. >> Yeah. >> The bowling in LA. >> Yeah. >> What's just right past >> Trey Olive and the glass >> pizza shop is on the the spruce street side of the purple. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Oh no. My apologies everybody. I I got my uh my map off. So it's on the

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opposite side of Shaker Road. I just I just noticed that Shaker's right here. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, scratch what I said earlier. It's on the side where Shaker Ball is. >> It's on the other side. Yeah. Gas station like blue, right? >> The gas station's down here at the ends

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and they make that right on the chestnut. That's kind of where it ends. It's It's abuing the rail trail down to where American I think it's America. No, it's Black & Decker right here. >> Black & Decker at the end. >> But what's so what's the blue? >> That is AW Brown.

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>> Those are all commercial spaces already. So, my my apologies there, folks. Um I got a little bit disoriented there. >> So across from Shaker Bowl. >> Yep. >> Hopefully everybody can envision this. >> Across Shaker Bowl, you end up having

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like Demoral Carpet. Then you have Peron. >> Then you have Scooters. Then you have another auto repair which I can't put or the sound place. I think maybe the sound place is in scooters. >> Yeah. Fritos.

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>> Well, pass freos. That's where he goes >> going toward Chestnut. >> There's a house. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, there's a house. >> So, I think so in my mind, I'm looking at the building types. So, and the build and the current building uses.

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So, past tomorrow carpet, I would not see a building that's currently there until you get up to like the hot yoga place and the uh and the bike shop. But there are multiple

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industrial uses and I'm going to call the auto repair those industrial uses before you get to the hot yoga and and whatever. To me that would make more of a a boundary. I'm looking between retail

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and industrial because if let's say Peron went out of business for some reason, are we likely to see a retail operation go in to their site or an industrial go into their site? I would imagine you're going to see more of a industrial site.

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>> We got to remember there's no parking between those buildings either. It's really restricted parking. >> It is very restricted. Yep. between tomorrow and Peron's just all three of those places. >> Yeah. Very restricted. Yeah. >> So, >> and then you go across the street and is

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that where the olive places the olive? >> No, those are houses when you're that far down. >> That's in the blue. >> The gun store is across from the added attraction and >> and then it's houses. >> Well, always >> and the nail place. >> Yeah. And what I always found interesting is, and I might be dating

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myself, so is the office space behind what used to be Don Anderson's travel business. >> That's Berx building. >> Okay. >> And like I have no idea what's like even in there. >> There's a little like courtyard with >> Yeah. But it looks like an office

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building. >> Well, there's I know there's one office. I almost rented it. >> Okay. So, how how big is that building? Any idea? >> I don't I don't know the square foot. It's a good size building. >> It's s It's set back. >> Yeah, it's a good size building. >> Yeah.

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>> So, I would envision that to be part of a center district cuz I think you could have some really interesting uses in that building that might be appropriate under this zone. >> Could be changed to apartments, that's for sure. Or living living spaces. Yeah,

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>> could be. >> Yeah. >> So, it seems like most of the attention's kind of focused on down here in this little extension. if I'm not understanding that correctly. But it seems like you kind of want to cut this back a little bit, Russell. >> I do. >> Yeah. >> I'd like take the whole leg off of it.

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>> Yeah. >> Just go up here at Spruce Street. >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Well Well, are you >> No, I think you have to come down. >> You I think you got to include AW. I think you got to include AW. >> Put the blue into the purple. >> Yeah. And then cut it there. >> Yeah. Cut it there. Right.

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>> And stop it right there. >> And Yeah. and cut it where the light blue ends. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I mean, what do you guys think? And ladies, >> no, that makes sense. You're welcome. >> No, I think that makes sense cuz I feel like that's where it

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>> You have a business right up there. So, what do you think? >> Brown. >> Yeah. I mean, right after that, it's it's houses basically and the buildings that you're talking about. >> This house is in the blue area, too. >> No, not I think like one or two. Yeah. >> Yeah, just one or two. >> Yeah, there's there's one right here.

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Well, there's at least five or six, I think, on the same side as left field. >> On the same on the same side. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And then on the other side there's like two or three. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You have Browns Fazio's a bowling alley and then the Rocky's building.

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>> So Rob, does this include Carlin Gustian, a proposed zone? >> It does. It's up here. >> Okay. So it goes across the street down Baldwin. >> So on the other side. So, not on Bowwin specifically, but on the properties

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here. >> Yeah. >> And then up this way, it kind of follows the rail trail on this side and then takes up I'm not sure what this is up here. Um, don't know who owns that, but I think it's a site that's really got a lot of potential for development. Um, I think that's why it was included in this

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district. And over here, I know we kind of leave this boundary kind of where it is because of all the residential neighborhoods here, especially the yellow and then some of the blue. Yeah. Um, but it seems like the board is open to kind of taking the SP spruce street

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corner and just making it go up this blue right here. >> Yeah. >> And then kind of cutting off at Dearos and then getting rid of this down here towards Chestnut Street. >> My my rationale is at at Peron moving further down you've got a number of

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buildings that lend itself to what would be more industrial uses if they were to turn over >> rather than retail. >> Right. But I that's just my opinion. >> No, I I think that's accurate. >> Pete, you've been in town for 70 plus years. What do you think? Not to date

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yet. >> 74 Civil War. >> And I didn't say 74. >> No. >> What do you think? >> Well, I I think that uh the blue area should be purple. That should be included in it. And

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I'd like to see it end there. >> Yep. >> I think >> I agree. because I really the the use the uses of those buildings are so limited because of the lack of parking. I don't see a big commercial a big industrial we're going to get industrial zone probably anyway, but >> I don't see a lot of

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>> heavy commercial stuff. >> I certainly don't see them to be used for retail. >> No. >> Or to become or if we decide or to be converted into housing. >> No, there's not enough parking. There's not enough parking to clean those buildings.

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And if if you took the buildings down, it's it's so it's not deep. >> No. >> What else could you put there, >> right? Have to actually put less buildings back up to get the parking. >> I don't think the buildings would I don't think we would take the buildings down. I think it's >> Yeah. >> Cuz there you're not going to solve the

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parking issue no matter what you do. >> Those buildings are all built by the Spate family. >> Okay. I >> also parking, you know, it's good to think about now, but I think having more in depth discussion about that later on, too. There's a lot that goes in the parking. >> There's a lot that goes into

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>> I know. I know. >> Yeah. >> All right. How about the rest of >> the zone? Anybody you want to jump in? Anybody want to jump in on this? You're feel free to. We'd love to hear your opinion. >> Of course.

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>> Uhoh. Are you just going up to look? >> Actually, of course not. >> I want an opinion. Um, so I was on the center town district and one of the main reasons for that extension that you see in purple is that

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is where the industrial goes all the way to the Shell station and the thought was get rid of the industrial so include that in the center town district. Um, I personally don't agree. I would cut it off at Spruce Street >> or like you said where the blue is which

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is the bowling alley >> and that's like O towing used to be in the back country. >> Taylor Rental used to be right behind >> right there and then there's a house right after house. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Right there. >> Yeah. Um but like I said just for a

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point of view that's the reason. And if you go to the opposite end the reason it extends up and in is that's the new self storage unit. that's also industrial. And so the thought process was try and get rid of as much industrial as you could. >> Yeah. >> Um

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>> I think I think we all agree with that. >> So So there's two sides to that. So let's say Peron, it used to be 3J's tire. Um >> just using that as an example. >> Yeah. No, no, that's all I am too because it's very well known. Yeah.

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>> Um but let's say he decides to sell. Even if that's within the center town district, if it was industrial and the use continues as the same, a repair shop, it can just continue >> his role. >> Exactly. So,

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would you like me to sign in because I talked, please? For the record, my name is Ralph Paige. I'm East Wang Meadow Town Counselor. >> You must be new here. So, um, so I've noticed that what used to be the

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ski house and then it was golden years is now it's like office suites. So to the so to the rear >> currently unoccupied though. >> Yeah. To the rear of that property, >> you know, there are some small retail,

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you know, on the next street. Um, I don't envision making a change there. Would you? >> No. >> Can you do with that building? >> No. >> I would just >> The parking spaces on Prospect Street belong to that building and to the photography studio. >> Okay. >> And then all he has is on street parking

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after that. Then that's it. It's like 15 spaces maybe. >> I would leave that alone. >> I just I just leave it. Yeah. Okay. >> I don't see any >> There's not It's not It's not We're not going to benefit. And why include the congregational church? Although there is a building right on

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the corner of u can't see on William Street that's a potential that white building is a real old building and there's a big parking lot there which the church uses. >> Right. Yep. >> I don't see I don't see the need to get down to the bank on on North Main Street. I

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>> the bank which bank >> the new bank on North Main Street. Not months >> for Brook Brook Street. >> The months and savings. >> Savings. >> Yeah, months and savings. >> Yeah. I would not go beyond that. >> No, >> I don't see the need. >> I don't see the need to go talking about going beyond that.

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>> Yeah. Yeah. >> You're talking about this part up here. >> Although there is that. >> So, so my envisioning of should the town approve market rate housing. So, right behind

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Mson Savings or alongside Muntz and Savings Bank is that small office building. >> Yes. >> Two stories. >> That's on the corner. >> Maybe three street. >> Yeah. Right. >> Two. >> I don't think that's included. >> It's not included in this.

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>> No, cuz it go that that that's right on Brook Street, >> right? >> This doesn't get on that far. So, do you look into the future as our planning director has indicated say what happens if that building becomes empty

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and what would you want that building to be used for if not used for office space? >> Again, I think there's a parking problem there. >> Yeah. But if we to do if they were to do

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shared parking with Mudson Savings Bank and the Llant building, you know, behind Mudson Savings, could you potentially have condos in there? And how many condos could you put in there? >> I don't think in that particular spot there's enough parking for that. But

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>> one thing we could do, Mr. >> Every day, >> I I think one thing we could do is we could also bring this up again next time after the board's had time to digest the map and just figure, you know, what properties you want to include, which properties you want to keep out. It seems like right now we just want to

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include the commercial there in the blue towards Shaker and Spruce and then cut off at the carpet cleaning store. um and just kind of make that shaker corridor not go down as far. But then it seems like there's other properties in

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northern part of the district that are question marks question marks on the eastern part of the district. I just think >> there's there's properties that we could include or we could not include, but I don't know if it's wise for the board to just maybe it for next time. I'm kind of

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on a roll. >> So, I'd like to kind of keep going while I'm on a roll because I'm also thinking of behind the new MVP MVP therapy building >> which they did a wonderful job

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converting from the gas station. You've got um the dentist office. Is that included? >> I believe is that the one near Bowwin Street? But it looks like it's in blue on this map. >> This side Pleasant Street.

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>> I don't know cuz I see some blue parcels right here. >> Yeah. >> That we could include if you wanted to. >> Um because I I think of that as I think of that property as being in the >> town town center. >> That part. Yeah. That building.

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>> That building. Yeah. >> And you got Key Bank kind of kitty cornered. So we should have that. And then right behind Key Bank going up um you've got a hub building which is used to be Epstein now it's hub

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>> which I think you should I'm kind of >> so maybe just change the ones that are blue to purple. >> Yeah. No, Russell, that's a good point cuz >> while you're talking on on Pleasant Street the dentist office is not included. So I'm looking at a map right now. It looks like that was left out in those commercial buildings to the right there.

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>> How about Key Bank? Is that included? of Key Bank >> and the building behind Key Bank. >> I think Key Bank is in it, but the other building is the blue part. >> So, it's Yeah, it's in the district. It's further down near um Shelurn.

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>> Oh, yeah. >> So, they're both in the district. They're like right here. >> No, you're thinking of the wrong thing. >> So, as I'm walking 50 miles a week, you can see what I'm looking at the whole time. >> Church. >> Okay. Yeah, it's included.

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>> Do you guys want to keep going on this or move to a different topic? >> Move. >> Okay, >> there's a consensus. I've been outmoded. Let's go to the next topic. >> So, we're tableing this for next time. >> Well, not table. We'll just continue. >> Yeah. >> Let's continue the discussion. >> Sounds good. >> Yeah.

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>> So, the >> before we move on, anybody have any from the audience have any >> parcels we've missed? >> Okay. All right. So, Mr. Sure. Uh before we move on, just to make sure I have everything in order. So it seems like

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the changes were the changes to the south like we had discussed, but then you also want to include some of those blue parcels up here near the rotary. I believe it's the few off of Pleasant. And then where else did the board want to see changes? >> Another blue one on Shaker. >> On Shaker.

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>> Yeah. Yeah. The blue area on Shaker. Yeah, there you go. >> That one. >> So this area and this area up here. >> Got it. And then there's there's another blue >> is the office building. Yeah. >> But there's another blue one right off the purple

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>> on Summers or on White Avenue. >> It's on Summers. >> Yeah. The building that's next to the bank. >> Yeah. Right. Yeah. It's a beautiful I bet inside. It's a beautiful building. Yeah. Someone that burnt or something. Had a fire there. Used to be Epstein

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Financial and we bought up. Okay. Okay. All right. next topic or are we done for the night? >> So, we have one last topic, but it's up to you whether or not you want to take it on today or just take time to think about it. But is our use table is the

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next topic. And the reason why I'm putting this one next, it's important to think about types of businesses and land uses that you want to see in this district. And I am very much aware. >> So, everybody page uh >> no page number. >> No page number. It looks like this in

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the draft >> the first draft. The first >> after page 10. >> Yeah. >> So if you go after page 10 your packets. Uh >> can you explain what a use table is rather? >> Of course. So a use table is a charts in the zoning bylaw that shows where in

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town a certain type of what we call land uses are allowed. These include what type of business you can put there, agriculture, any sort of residential development, pretty much anything that we can control, it tells you where it can go, whether or not it's allowed or whether

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or not you need a special permit by the planning board. So, in this case, um, looking at the district, I know it's really hard to see on the screen, but the folks that have the packets, if you're looking at the table, um, on the far right column highlighted, which you may not see in the copies that you guys have, but all the way on the right is

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the proposed column for the tener town center mixeduse district. And again, this is a very early draft. It basically talks about all the uses we have in town, whether or not they're allowed, not allowed, or require a special permit. I very much mimicked

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what we have already in our commercial and business districts, uh, just to keep that land use pattern alive in this new district. Um there were a few that I had to add because they were specifically

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identified as desirable uses in the draft that was provided to me by the town council. These include mixeduse development which had become its own road here in yellow. Um parking garage was one thing that was mentioned. Um that would be something

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that would require a special permit because a structure like that would need further review from the town. uh commercial condominiums which are still pretty popular. Um specialty food market which is a

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smaller type of market where you get specialized items whether it's like an Italian bakery or whatever else your heart desires. Uh it's different from a regular supermarket cuz a regular supermarket is over a certain square footage and usually the rule of thumb is 5,000 square feet. If it's above that

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it's considered a supermarket. If it's less than that, it's not. We can definitely change that number, but after looking for hours, that's the difference between the two that have come across from research. We also have takeout food establishments. So, we have a lot of

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folks in town that just have cafes with 10 tables in them or they have uh a bakery or they have something where people don't even sit inside and eat, but they prepare food there. Anyways, that's another type of use that was identified. um something that's like a

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cafe that people can come and go. We have a lot of business owners that are trying to come and go pretty frequently in these types of establishments. Right now, they have to get a special permit because that's how we classify them as restaurants, no matter how big

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or small you are. It just seems a little bit overburdensome to make a cafe that has 10 seats inside have to go through the special permit process. So, we figured in this district it would make more sense to allow for takeout food establishments

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capping number of seats at 20 seats inside, but that number could definitely change to be allowed by rights, which means you don't need playing board special permit. If you see an existing space there, you can just occupy it as long as you have a business license and you have all your other permits that you

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need from the town. And we also have co-working slash business incubator spaces. Um, a lot of these sorts of spaces are actually grouped together. Um, they usually go inside of existing buildings. These are what we call um,

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economic developments incubators. It helps entrepreneurs start a business. It gives resources to folks who don't have the capital or funds or resources to do entrepreneurship. That's basically what

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they are. And they also provide a safe working space for folks who might have say like a manufacturing business. They want to have a space to do their crafts or an office space for folks who have a business who want to meet. But other than that, Mr. Chair, that's basically it. I don't know how you want to go

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about talking about this. It's a very it's a six-page document. >> Yeah, >> there's a lot to it and I I leave it up to the board at your discretion to figure out how you want to go about it. >> There were uses that you put Yes. >> under. Yep. >> Which I don't think will would have the

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support of this board. >> So I would suspect that we probably need further discussion on that. >> Sure. >> Um so it really evolves around the types of housing that you put yes under. Um, but

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there are other some other some uses like even just the one that now currently gets my gall is I see all these people with these uh you know uh wood for sale, wood bundles for sale and they put them in front of their house and they're selling wood even though

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they haven't cut the wood from their own property but they're selling them. And I'm kind of wondering how come we don't enforce that as that's a retail at a residential site but uh would hope that someday that might be resolved. So the I think this needs a little more looking

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at by this board and maybe tonight is not the appropriate time to absolutely to have a better understanding of it. >> So how would you want to >> this will be our first item at our next meeting? >> Okay. So would the board uh take away the two weeks and just think about what

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you want to propose as changes and then come back two weeks and continue that conversation? >> Yeah. And and in that twoe period, do you believe that you would have identified potential other communities that have done it well

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and had an opportunity to talk to individuals there or give us some contact information so members of the board could reach out? Sure. Um and then the other thing we are going to do is we plan to host

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and it'll be an open meeting anyone wants to come is we're going to try to get a number of developers to sit in the room with us say okay you know Esau meadow you know the center of Esau meadow what makes sense from a developer's point of view

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because if they're going if I want to put something out in front that actually is feasible and feasible means that they can do it. They believe they would be able to rent the properties, excuse me, or you know

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and and they would be used and the concept I think to go back to what is the purpose is to make the center a vibrant location but also to have indust to have retail and commercial

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uses that all play with each other. that there's a a connection between all of them. So, if you actually, you know, come into the center, you can do two or three different things if you're a resident or if we approve some type of housing that the people who are living

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in that housing can can use those types of businesses, those small businesses that are that are in the center and help them be more economically vital. So, >> okay.

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>> And I believe I can have communities identified and at least partial the full list of contact information. >> Yeah. And can maybe you can work on the developer list too. >> Sure. >> I think that's definitely warrants a discussion at the next meeting as well

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about scheduling that getting that advertised so folks can attend and and whatnot. And I do have one more. >> And can we can we can we legally and procedurally make these public

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hearings or can I just continue them as public meetings and allow the public to address us as we see fit. >> So there's no need to make it a public hearing. So it's just an informal discussion. So it's up to you. You can you can decide if public can contribute or not contribute. Um it's up to the

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board. Well, I'm big believer in public input. So, if you continue to come, I would great love to hear from all of you as we continue down this journey. Mr. Chair, one last thing too, just to give you some ideas of what topics for future

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discussions could look like. That's kind of the list right there. And I break this up in terms of how long it's going to take you to do each thing. Um, general requirements, the first bullet point is only like three pages worth of stuff, four pages. So just if you wanted

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to have this list handy, I actually include these slides in your digital packets so you can access them later. This is how it's best broken down to talk about topic on topic basis. But that's pretty much all I had today, Mr. Chair. Thank you for letting me help

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guide this discussion before we move on. Any other comments? Good start. Okay, our next item of business is planning and community development director's report. I'm just going to shift around my documents real quick and I'll definitely

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pull the director's report. Don't really have a lot of updates tonight. Um I gave you the list of your next meeting dates. Just keep in mind June 2nd we don't have a meeting because of town elections. Um May 5th we have two public hearings for

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special permit. The first is a request to operate a restaurant at 55 White Avenue. Uh don't remember what type it is. I believe it's a takeout restaurant. And then the other is for a special permit to operate a restaurant

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specializing in Vietn food. 51 Prospect Street. But other than that, that's all you have for the next meeting. And Northern News. >> What's he want to do at 51 Prospect? >> A Vietnamese restaurant. >> Vietnamese restaurant. >> Another parking issue there, too. >> Yeah.

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>> There's like there's two floors, right? >> Yeah. >> As you walk, that's where I used to get my haircut. You walk in there with Cabella and there's a place on the right hand side. Then there's a staircase that goes up and it goes there's a staircase that goes down. >> What? >> Oh, that's >> 15 parking spaces. >> Say there's nothing out there.

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>> Well, we'll deal with Yeah. >> All right. Motion to adjurnn. >> So moved. Second. >> Any discussion? Hearing none. All in favor say I. >> Thank you. >> Hey Rob. >> Yep. >> Take this with me. >> Keep it. And cheers.