all good good evening and welcome to the February 11th 20125 meeting of the Isam Meadow Town Council I'll call the meeting to order and ask that we stand for the Pledge of Allegiance I to the flag the United States of America and to the Republic
for it stands na andice and I would ask that we take a brief moment of silence tole on the events for both near and AAR thank you in accordance with Mass General law this meeting is being recorded by elcat if there's anyone else in the audience if you could identify
yourself Han and and reminder publishing thank you Sarah all right next we have public comments uh first we have Lena signed up you want to come forward and state your name and address for the record was Lena vuro and I live at 112 bur Road and I'm here speak on behalf of
the East Long Meadow veterans and if it's okay if anybody's a veteran can you please raise your hand so the town of East Long Meadow does have a voice and they do have veterans that are willing to um Advocate um as I stated my name is Lena
vuro I reside at 112 W as a retired US Army veteran I sit before you today with a heartfelt request on behalf of our East Long Meadow disabled veterans and their families the hero act in act enacted unto law on August 8th 2024 provided a crucial opportunity for
municipalities to enhance the property tax abatement program for VA qualified service connected veterans surviving spouses and gold star families for many years various veteran organizations have advocated for these essential upgrades specifically I am requesting the approv
approval of clause 22i and 22j of the hero act 100% increase in a yearly cost of living adjustment these upgrades are not merely beneficial they are necessary to honor the sacrifices made by our veterans and their families by passing these options we can ensure that our
brave men and women who served our country as well as their families receive the support and recognition they rightfully deserve thank you for your time and consideration I urge you to approve clause 22i and 22j of the hero Act and making meaningful difference in the lives of our veterans and their
families thank you you on that front thank you for the the comments and that is definitely something we'll look into I know that that process has to start with the board of assessors first to my understanding it's already had its blessing from the
board of assessors to my best of my knowledge and we'll have to receive that officially communicated to us to the council level and then we can look at that through the budget process process this upcoming year and then we'll look at taking action on that okay so how long do you think that process will take I mean if we're being honest here if
this doesn't pass my plan is to appeal it and it has to be all done by July 1 I'm not sure what the timetable is at the moment it definitely would be before July or June but I need the time to appeal it if you guys don't go for the 100% with the cola increase I will be
appealing it and doing the citizens petition so I need the time to do that because a decision has to be made by July first so if we could get done in a timely fashion that's all I'm asking so can I suggest that our meeting in March that we put this on we will reach out to
the assessors and find out what we're looking at um as far as the projections and what rejections and all and see if we can get it done sure thank you very much yeah definely thank you AC okay next we have Joe regarding
fireworks hi hi your name and address for the record Joe abdal 314 Elm Street thank you wor that is this is a bear [Laughter]
trap um this this is a been going on for years it's a quality of life issue in Town um I've been here for 28 years and uh the use of fireworks and I'm sure you guys have heard it over and over it's just absolutely out of control
um it starts where I I am up in Elm Street it starts a week or two before the fourth it goes through the fourth and then sometimes days after and everybody will call the police I've called the police at least the last 10 years in a row and
they go up and they leave and the next it's the same thing going on um I took the time went online and and read the state what the state put in place and it's absolutely a waste of time they should erase it there's no there's no teeth in that whatsoever um the police are
to first of all fireworks are illegal in the state the police are to confiscate the fireworks retain them and then take them to the state police for disposal well I'm not sure that happens because it just keeps happening over with the same people
um some people up where I live they have businesses and they can afford hundreds of dollars worth of these things and I'm not talking little fireworks and skyrockets um I'm six or eight houses down from where this happens and literally the house shakes with a boom you've got seniors you've got veterans
you got people with children you've got pets and this starts at dark and it goes till sometimes 1 2:00 in the morning and what happens when one person starts the fireworks it's something about it's a it's a primitive reflex some guy over here says he's going to
get firewor and they all kind of and the third guy starts so it's just it's just it's it's so far out of control we have to do something about it um I can sit here and complain about it um I I don't know wouldn't know what else to do um I
think the police have to be able to write a ticket to the property owner if the they're gone for the weekend and the kids are doing it the ticket still goes to the property owner it's got to be 50 or $75 charge and then they should be responsible for the cost of
disposal police car has to take this and bring it to the East Long Meadow and on Monday or Tuesday then bring it to the state police that's $200 it's a fine plus $200 I mean it only makes sense we're talking about doing the right thing here um second offense maybe $300
whatever it may be but it's just the state law there's no teeth in it whatsoever I'm sure many of you have read it if you haven't it's it's interesting reading it's kind of what the state of Mass us to did with cell phones same thing um so I it's the noise up there is is
out of control the fireworks was one topic I explain lady but engine brakes same thing we're dealing with engine brakes all the time they're going down the road and it's it's loud roar all hours of the day and night um dump trucks um dirt bikes over there same
thing uh we have roosters in the neighborhood they all hours of the day um Speeders lot I mean I can go on and on and on I'm on Elm Street some most of you people live on a nice little side street I'm envious I'm very envious but this is just out of control it's you guys really have to put your foot down
and do something about these these areas um what else can I say thank you for your time again it's a quality it's a quality of control your address again sir sorry 14
there anyone else that would like to make a public comment this evening you could just state your name and address for the record Ross LaVine 72 baymore drive just want to express my concern over the Center District and I don't even understand it fully but I
understand enough of it and I don't understand why the only benefit I see to the town is getting a very small amount relative to our budget and whatnot that we're going to get from the state and in return we give up a lot of control as to what we can do in there and the part
that really concerns me is this chapter 40R which I understand maybe we have to do maybe we don't have to do but it says it seeks to substantially increase the supply of Housing and decrease its cost by increasing the amount of land zone for dense housing smartro zoning overlay
act chapter 149 acts of 2 204 chapter the ACT encourages communities to create dense residential or mixed use Smart growth zoning districts including a high percentage of affordable housing units to be located
near Transit stations in the areas of concentrated development such as existing City and town centers and in highly suitable locations I'm not sure why we we all know we have issues with the rotary with the traffic and whatnot
I'm not sure why we're looking to put more people and businesses into those areas and drive it into a rotary that's already very hard to navigate I really don't see the benefit of this that we have a perfectly capable planning board that anything we want to do you know we
can do for ourselves you know I would say that you know East long metal knows what's best for East long metal so that's it great thank you for coming thank you there anyone else in the audience that would like to make a public comment
can I stand is that okay sure I'm a resident of v two Forbes Hill Road I'm here also on the 40R uh Center District um plan I think it's um just to give you my background I've been a resident of town for a long long time I work for the town for a long long time
as most of you all know um I seen a lot of changes and I'm not here to say that change is bad I understand change is inevitable it's going to happen it's how we control that change is what it's important and how it affects us so we have uh this new uh District outlay
which I think is a good idea overall I think it's going to bring a lot of flexibility to the town as it grows which we need the flexibility but we don't need any um I'm GNA Echo some of the comments earlier that just were made by the previous uh speaker that we don't need any anybody else Pretty much telling us how to grow our town we know
our town the best we know what's good for the town yeah think the state might get involved if you let them he might uh wiggle a carrot in front of you with a few dollars and then you're going to be hand tied to them to do what they want to do I don't think that's in the best interest of what we want to do okay
they're gonna have minimum standards I understand right so standards are standards what they change down the road how do we control that I think we can avoid all that and understand that um we should take control of our town and grow the way we want to grow change is going to happen I conceded that a long time
ago nothing stays the same fact of life but have seen a big change in town and hopefully the changes we make will make it a lot easier on everybody to get along with I I think we should control our own destiny and um I I have the faith in you guys to do the right thing because we elected you and versus
somebody from the state telling us how to uh operate in our town so I hope you take that in consideration moving forward um and understand that you know some of the overlay right now with the U the industrial part I understand getting that out of there and putting it into a district area that's fine we have a
industrial Gardens out there that they can you know operate for those kind of businesses and this can be a multi flexible um District which I think is not you know it's not bad it's in the interest Tom has mentioned that the need for revenue is there this gives you the
flexibility to do that so hopefully uh you'll control it and make the wise choices for the town moving forward and it'll look it'll look all right when you get done but I believe you should keep the control in your hands and not somebody else's it might be a small reward from the state but at the end of
the day the price is forgotten the product remains so what you're dealt with from the state at the end of the day is what you're going to get and change that might not be as easy as getting into the game than getting out of the game so keep it in your hands down the way you want to develop it with
the town's people in mind and you allow yourself that flexibility going forward if you do that that's just my humble opinion and I'm glad I'm not in charge of the fireworks no more thank you thank you com is there anyone else in the audience that would like to make a public
comment my name is Roland bulck I live on Smith Avenue any s met I'm also talking about 40R and how I'm opposed to it uh when it comes down to safety it's the reason why I wore this jacket here today I compete in truck driving championships and it's all based on
safety it's the longest running safety program in the History of the United States has been going on since 1937 of course nobody's heard of it right but it still goes on it still happens you have to drive safe for the year in order to compete I've been doing it close to 30
years now and I have a 41e safe driving career yeah trying to keep that up keep it going one thing I've uh probably most proud of that it's not on this jacket is I also belonged to something called America's Road team America's Road team
is a group of professional drivers that have been hand selected to go out and represent the industry throughout the United States I've sat down with legislators and lawmakers throughout the country and I've seen the dense
populations they also have an infrastructure of travel you can get into the locations you can get out it's the one thing East Long Meadow is known for that we do not have we have a two-lane road that goes through the center of our town
if we're going to make things more dense we need to go to a four lane system through the center of town it's the only thing that would work four lanes into the rotary would be a nightmare uh the nightmare itself is the rotary but as far as safety is concerned
it's something I've practiced all my life it's something I'm very familiar with and man I'd really hate to see that 40 R go through it's not worth the money for the state to supply us with because
we're putting in apartment buildings in the center of town and creating that dense population is what you'll see in New York it's what you're going to see in Boston all of Eastern Massachusetts is doing it they're so congested why do
you think they're all moving this way because we have some open space we have a small town of East Long Meadow that continues to grow and the council does a wonderful job of controlling where they grow how they grow you see permits come
across your desk and you deal with them at the time but if the state were to pass to give us the funds for a 40R nothing is free it's going to come down to them telling us how to put in an
apartment building where we don't want it so I am definitely opposed the 40R because I feel the dense population is really going to hurt the safety in this town and uh I've seen it happen in other
locations so thank you for your time thank you is there anyone else that would like to make a public comment okay seeing none we will move to council comments any Council thanks thank you thank you is there any
counselor that has the chair sure good evening everyone I just want to address a comment that was made during the public comment portion of our last council meeting the commenter attributed my public comments Center Town District steering committee discussion on adopting the state's concentrated
low-income affordable housing law 40R to the entire Council I want to clarify the comment was mine attribute the statements I make directly as I stand by my comments you don't need to blanket my colleagues with them
the subject of the Town adapting 4dr has been a persistent interest of the Centertown District steering committee for well over a year now in fact my opposition to it prompted me to run for the council tonight I just want to reaffirm my opposition and to address a residence
of East Long meow directly I hear you I firmly oppose the Town Council excuse me the town putting itself in a compromising position by accepting cash payments in exchange for relinquishing local control to Boston bureaucrats the center Town steering committee's
role is to conduct a public process to allow a planner to draft a bylaw that'll be submitted to the planning board and ultimately to the Town Council for approval the timeline for submitting this draft was set for a fall of last year but it seems to not be on track
instead it appears that the process has been hijacked by personal motives and Ambitions recently there's been an endless stream of book clubs author talks and social events and media posts social media post the facilitator of this is now consumed with running her own campaign to convince residents of
East Long meow of something they don't want the steering committee chair who requested the council silence on the matter I campaigned extensively on this issue and the voters of eong meow are aware of my position I have publicly discussed this matter in Council meetings my duty here is not to remain
silent while the process has been allowed to run a muck as a deliberative body our Collective responsibility is to engage in debate have conversations and come together to address issues of significance to our town it is time to move forward and the politicalization of
the town's efforts to update the center Town Zoning for those involved it is time to listen to what residents board members and elected representatives have been saying for well over a year it's time to move on and to move forward I appreciate the council president allowing me the time to address this matter thank
you there any other counselor that has a comment so through the chair sure um so I had the opportunity to uh the good article in the reminder we made the front page again um I just wanted to point out that the book that I kept
referring to and looking down at as I was discussing uh stuff is our zoning bylaws and general bylaws um these are important to me I help create a lot of them I've gone through them I know them inside out and
backwards and it amazed me being at the Centertown district meeting that we have a slide put up like what don't want we want for you know what non-residential uses don't we want in the center Town
district and there was no one to speak up to say anything I don't think anyone knows that we have an entire list of uses um from industrial to agricultural to uh public that are right here we already have
them you know we need to go through what we already have and look at it and analyze it to see if the center Town District would work and what we want in it um but when I pull up a book and I'm looking through it chances are it's what
I call the good book because it's all of our zoning in general bylaws thank you thank you any other counselor than we will move on to the town manager's report good evening hi everybody
um um so I've uh attached you'll notice the first paragraph is the same every week uh every meeting uh it's just an update on the school uh so the last few weeks of update reports from um the project manager uh for January 20th in
the week of the 27th for school and Auditorium um so obviously uh progress continues to uh the project continues to progress uh very well uh still very much on time and on budget
steel is flying around uh and you know some roof deckings getting installed and uh the foundation walls of the nitorum are now in so um it's really it's really exciting uh on campus to to see the progression of of the construction of
the building so um uh Governor Hy filed the the municipal empowerment act on January 31st uh in an effort to provide more control to local municipalities and dressing areas of concern um bill is
based almost entirely on input from Municipal officials um and addressing areas of concern um local Revenue procurement tax exemptions and more um so we've already kind of begun to look through that list
I I had attached a sort of a summary of uh you got to kind of drill down into it into the language a little bit uh if you want to get into the weeds but um certainly some things that uh we'll keep an eye on how that bill progresses and
and some some options afforded to us um fiber to the home project uh also moving along uh obviously the design was done uh we're sort of in the hands of the uh utility companies now who are um they
they got the design in the form of applications uh to which they are now uh assessing their system to see how much Make Ready work would have to be done in order for us to attach to the polls um and we're still waiting for for their
input um to see what kind of work needs to be done before we can start our construction which will be sort of the next phase of this um uh I I forwarded a the Fiber service area map to you today I apologize I I had asked for it last
week and po Mr quim's been out sick so um everybody's out sick uh um and uh so we're we're we're getting to a point where whip City will come into one of our future meetings and sort
of lay out sort of a marketing plan and by that I mean um sort of gauge interests in the community and which of these service areas are uh which residents in these service areas are most interested sort of compare that to how much it would cost to build these
areas and sort of come up with a a plan to roll this thing out uh and sort of a cost analysis and uh Revenue uh generating Matrix uh to to figure out how we're going to roll this thing out
so uh that'll probably be uh late March early April I think they said that they have most of the website up and ready to roll and then we can uh sort of give them input on how we want to go forward so that's that's exciting uh once we get
word back from from grid and Verizon um Aaron Hastings the executive director of Westcom which is our regional dispatch agency um she's been there since since uh Westcom started uh in uh late
2018 um has resigned to move on to another opportunity uh the board of directors uh currently searching for a temporary interim director to sort of uh keep the lights on Andor run a diagnostic and and kind of see where uh
what we do well and and some areas for improvement uh while we search for a long-term solution for that uh important important position um the new Communication Center for Westcom at shigan Drive uh in chicke
the old Salter College building uh that is also under construction as well uh making great progress over there um the shell of the building is is basically complete works uh they're moving along inside on HVAC and in and the the
finishing um and we're looking at uh getting in that building around may this year which will be great um the dispatchers currently are in the chicke police station uh there's at any given time probably 12 people working in about
800 square fet so uh they're they're pretty cozy to say the least so they're excited about uh moving into the new building um Centertown District steering committee met on the 29th of January uh to begin uh crafting the bylaw language
for the new District uh pvpc provided a sort of broad view of topics uh to include um and uh we've been you know beginning discussion on sort of the general direction of that uh by law um
there's another uh committee meeting on February 19th uh in which we'll continue writing language for the new law um upcoming events uh just one really before next uh council meeting and that's the district meeting on February
19th here at the COA at 6 p.m uh I'm here for any questions uh anybody has any but that's it for for the report thank you Tom anyone have any questions so through the chair cost of the fiber
optics um so before we go into a marketing plan and stuff yep um assuming the council be getting an update as far as what the projected costs are y because I know when we originally started talking about it to the last
time we mentioned the price um it had gone up a lot and that was quite a few months ago yep and I think that's something that the council has to look at whether or not um that the price actually is worth it are we going to get enough uh people you know what's the the
rate of uh subscribership in order to even cover to cost and I think those are all questions before we even get into a marketing plan yeah okay just a thought process know if the rest of the council agrees or not but sure yeah and I think
we have a sort of a an estimated cost which again would be based on the the rate the take rate uh and what Revenue we're we're bringing in while we keep building right uh the first piece of this is we really need to
know how much work we need to do on the existing system right because if that number is astronomical from the utility companies we might not even have that conversation you know what I mean so we're kind of uh we're hopeful by whip
city is still planning this roll out and this website and and you know that can all be done behind the scenes but at the end of the day if the price tag is too high exactly we might be we might be dead in the water so we really got to wait to see what the utility companies
uh that's the last part of uh the the money that's been allocated for this piece is for whip City to check their work meaning we're not paying to put all new polls in town just because they said so right uh so whip City will now go
check what the utility companies have said to do the work right they're the Professionals in the field they run electricity and fiber so they'll know what the separation distances have to be on the polls if a 30 foot pole is there and that's adequate we don't need to add
a 35 foot pole there that kind of stuff so yes uh we still have a lot of information we need to know if we're even going to move forward but in the interim uh if the marketing thing's happening at the same time and we're not getting the take rate either well then
we're dead in the water there too so uh there there's still a lot of lot of moving Parts uh but um whip city's been a good partner and we've been working with them me and Quimby are have been meeting with them well Ryan more than me unfortunately because I have other
things to do but uh you know by weekly uh so they're they're constantly updating us unfortunately now we're just sort of uh at the mercy of the timeline of the utility companies okay thank you you're welcome any other
comments okay next we will move to correspondence and announcements I don't have any unless any other Council and we'll move to public hearings we have a okay okay so this is a public hearing to approve
$112,000 from the community preservation historic fund account for the town hall Bell restoration project the council members are Jim bidden Kathy Hill Anna Jones myself con OA Marilyn Richards Ralph pagee and John torsa and I would
ask the clerk to read the legal notice into the record East Long Meadow town counil will hold a public hearing on February 11 2025 at 6:15 p.m. in the media room of the Council on Aging located at 328 North Main Street to address a community preservation act
application for the town hall Bell restoration project information relating to this application is available for review by the public in the town clerk's office and on the town's website on the community preservation committee's page the public hearing may also be attended via Zoom webinar for the council Gan Ary
town clerk clerk of the council thank you Genie so at this time I would ask if the community preservation Committee Member presell good evening Toman 31 Brook Street uh chair of the historic commission we're requesting funding to
restore the Bell was moved out of the bell tower in early 2000 it's been out in the elements for 20 years um originally had a coating on the uh the iron yolk and the A-frames which is worn off it's starting to rust uh the bronze Bell the patina getting very thick and
uh starting to pit the the Bell itself so we've talked a couple C different companies and got some quotes to um disassemble the Bell have the iron yolk um powder co uh sand blasted and powder coated the Bell itself would be soft
blasted and clear coated and um we just uh would like to save the bell so any questions or well before we get to council questions I'll ask since this is a public hearing the public now has
opportunity to offer any input comments questions so if there's anyone in the audience that would like to make a comment okay seeing none I'll close the public input portion and now the council if there's anyone I just wanted to know if the location will remain the same um
we are talking about it at this point about a possible location uh Tom had mentioned maybe the new town hall in a Lobby might be an an indoor location um if we keep it outside you're going to be doing this in 20 years so um
we would be you know amenable to whatever everybody would like to do it's New Town Hall seemed like a good option um it could be put in a an acrylic uh case so that people won't you know get their hands all over it and uh might be a nice thing for the uh for the
building so I like that a good idea thank you we we we had talked about a couple things and and I'm thinking none of them were outside again because like Tom said we're just going to have to do it again so uh hopefully somewhere on display so that everybody could see a
shiny new bell you knew so um if it's kept inside I'm assuming we're not going to be doing a red stone uh base for it then um I pound Stone under a bell is
probably around um I see the the photos uh the restored ones they they're beautiful they're gorgeous yeah I love the fact that you guys have considered to do a um um metal wheel on it instead of the wood wheel so that way that would
last but yet it still me uh meets the criteria for the time and all yeah it's time correct yeah period correct the only thing I didn't see is the actual I'm going to call it the ringer um I don't believe right now that it has any
ability to be chimed it does there's a ringer in the Bell is there it it exists it's in it's in the in the pictures I see one basically mounted down below where you pull and it comes up and hits the side of the well it's a it's a rope you can pull it they in um
1994 uh at the anniversary uh they had the fire department go up in the Bell Tower and they rang it for the last time um a lot of firefighters were down there and it was there's a whole article in the reminder about it the when they went up and rang the bell for the an you know
the 100th anniversary and um so it it's actually operable which is also one of the concerns about putting it in a public place like the town hall where you know you you have to kind of we have to do some things to secure it we wouldn't want you know run up and
and someone could get hurt so it would have to be protected or immobilized in some way shape or form um but the uh the actual ringer is in the bell and there's actually a little piece of rope on it so I think it's a great great project and I'm 100% for it great and we could you
know it could be mounted you could have a thin piece of redstone or you could have it was originally a mounted on um wooden rails in the bell tower so you could also get some old uh you know wooden rails and mounted on that in an indoor location to keep it off the
ground oh good yeah great if there's no yes I agree if there's no other Council comments or questions I'll entertain a motion to close the public hearing so move second okay motion's been made in to close the public hearing any further discussion none all those in favor
please say I I any opposed the public hearing is closed and I'll entertain motion to approve I move we approve the funding of the community preservation Town PA Bell restoration project in the amount of
$122,000 from the historic fund account second motions been made and seconded any further discussion I'll do this as a roll call vote Jim yes Kathy yes Anna yes I'm a yes Marilyn yes Ralph yes and John I'm a yes great so the Bell is
awesome thank you so much good night thanks Tom okay next we have a 620 public hearing for the brown farm structural analysis project this is a public hearing to approve $12,500 from the community preservation
ACT public Recreation fund account for the brown farm structural restoration project council member members are Jim Liden Kathy Hill Anna Jones myself Conor o Marilyn Richards Ralph Paige and John torsa and I would ask the clerk to read the legal notice into the record East
Long meow Town Council will hold a public hearing on February 11 2025 at 6:20 pm in the media room of the Council on Aging located at 328 North Main Street to address a community preservation act application for the brown farm structural analysis project
information relating to this application is available for review by the public in the town cl's office and on the town's website on the community preservation committee's page the public hearing may also be attended via Zoom webinar for the council Gan AR quag Town CER Clerk of the council thank you jeie then I
would ask at this time if there's anyone from the community preservation committee that would like to make a brief statement or presentation evening good evening bill okay um Community preservation committee
met on November 14th and the town manager presented this project to us and it was voted unanimously because the committee would like to see the the farm used the barn used for whatever you know whatever we can do with it as
opposed to tearing it down and starting all over again so we did approve the structural design to see if it's even feasible before we move on and was unanimous vote by the community preservation committee great thank you since this is a public hearing uh the
opportunity is now hear if there's anyone in the public that would like to make a comment or ask any questions okay seeing none I'll close the public input portion of the hearing member of the council have any questions or comments okay if there's none I'll
entertain a motion to close the public hearing so moved second motion's been made and seconded to close the public hearing any further discussion hey seeing none all those in favor please say I I any opposed closed and I'll entertain to
approve I make a motion to approve the funding of the community conservation brown farm structural analysis project in the amount of $12,500 from the public Recreation fund account second motions been made and seconded any further
discussion right we will do a roll call vote Jim yes Kathy yes Anna yes I'm yes Marilyn yes Ralph yes and John that one's and we have our 625 for the community preservation
center field drainage project just get that one disaster so this one is a public hearing to approve $58,000 from the community preservation act fund account for the center field drainage project the council members again are Jim Leiden Kathy Hill Anna
Jones Conor OA Marilyn Richards Ralph and John torche I would ask the clerk to read the legal notice into the record the East Long Meadow Town Council will hold a public hearing on February 11 20125 at 6:25 p.m. in the media room of the Council on Aging located at 328
North Main Street to address a community preservation act application for the center field drainage project information relating to this application is available for review by the public in the town clerk's office and on the town's website on the community preservation committee's page public
hearing May be attended via Zoom webinar for the council G quag town quir with the council hey jie and again if you want to just give sure um Donna pther approached us on the four on November 14th and as everybody knows there's been a problem with Centerfield for decades
and she is looking into what it would take to alleviate the drainage issues this is the first step we haven't gone any further I know in your packet you did see some other quotes and pictures but the committee initially approv just the engineering design before we go any
further and it was approved unanimously because the committee did app did agree we do need playing fields in town we need safe stuff for our kids to play on right now anytime it rains this field isn't even usable so it's just this is the beginning of a long project that's why we approved it just to see where
it'll go right thank you for the overview same thing uh this is an opportunity for the public to make any comments if they wish sure if you could just come forward and state your name and address again Jeff Le again for the road I didn't plan on commenting on this but I'm just curious
on since you brought up what is the a problem with the center field flooding you can bring me up to speed is it when it heavy rains in the ponds overflow or is it just general rain and it's General rain because the the the surface is Clay so it it it's very slow and draining it renders a field unusable for for a
couple for days plus with all the other activities you get the carnival in there the field is trashed you know things like that so we're trying to solve a lot of different issues starting with this study to see if it's even feasible to go forward the only time I know is it's unusable when there's heavy downpour not
just general rain but when the ponds overflow it does back up onto the fields a little bit so is it a pond issue the retention Pond issue or is it just dra it's the field it's the field ISS it's the drainage in the field so we're gonna look at the we're gonna look at the ponds and how they drain it all because when those overflow that means either
too much water going in there or there's not enough Outlet going out of there and so to do all the drainage you want if it's got no place to dra the water into the pond which is not relieving itself then you're you're for not I'm sure that's part of the project oh is that take that's part of the project to take to take that to take that into account I
just I'm just thr that out there I know it's the over time yeah any other public comments okay if there's none I'll entertain a motion to close the public hearing so moves second so instead of closing the public hearing I'd bring it
correct Y and then then once we're done commenting y all right the public input portion of the hearing is closed a comment um I only had kind of a technical question um I I I definitely like the project we've got a definitely
make sure that we're the fields you know as best as we can that area um I know that we just approved another project for 12,000 out of the public Recreation account and then this would be hypothetically if the council approved 58 and I know the balance currently is 86,000 so just doing some quick math
we'd be left with only 16,000 in that particular account I noticed our undesignated fund is pretty healthy now um you know I don't know what the thought might be to maybe at least make some of it come out of undesignated
um we we can't do that as a council that's the decision but we have discussed we did discuss this and it was brought up that you know we agreed to cross that bridge when we get there but we are aware that there will be only roughly $6,000 left
in the account if this is approved and there is a means for transferring funds through CPC or CPA and are you guys planning on doing that at if if this is approved we are meeting this Thursday and it will be on
the agenda because I have as part of my agenda on Thursday is an update on current projects at that point we will discuss it again I mean we're overall I mean pretty good place a lot better of even place than when I was on CPC it's just um I think it's not necessarily the
best idea to keep one account super super low for a long period of time and I know the state money has been slowing down since the pandemic so it'll take a little bit longer get it back up then any other counselors have a comment
I do so through the chair um I'm against this project uh for multiple reasons we're currently in the process of building a new high school we don't have any Fields there we've taken the fields in order to build the school um to look
at this um this is something we couldn't even do for a few years because it would make absolutely zero sense to go ahead tear up the center of town and the fields um when the school's being done the second thing is we've done drainage I believe it was along the Third Base
Line uh and the fencing um in the center field and because of all the traffic uh the piping is all crushed and the drainage is no longer working third thing is you look at the ponds the height of the pond is actually the height of your
groundwater so in order to put drainage in you're not going to have the pitch available from the fields to there and if the complaint is that because of clay it's not draining these Drainage Systems aren't going to work appropriately
you're going to have to strip the field to remove the clay um you know yes it'll drain in the three-foot path um but at this time I just I think this should be put on the back burner um and I would have a
question for our town manager um has the DPW been consulted with this I didn't see any letter of reference from our DPW you and I also didn't see any letter from the town manager uh in support of this and considering you're in charge of
all Town property I would have expected to see that before we saw the application and those are just yeah so uh well a couple things so the um Pond out outfall uh has a pump in it
that when it gets to a certain height heads out to Shaker Road uh the times that flooded that pump uh was replaced a couple years ago the times that it has flooded that pump failed and water didn't go where supposed to go um yeah
uh I didn't write a letter in support of this because um well it was a project that was proposed by someone else and uh the the wreck uh commission um at that point I didn't see a huge need uh uh and
the timeline in terms of like you said the school uh we right now have only two 90 foot Diamonds the one in the center is in desperate need of work uh so from a timeline standpoint it's not perfect but uh that field does not
drain as it was explained and Bill already mentioned if we have a rain out it's a couple days before The Field's playable again which is difficult especially when it's the only one uh we're we're probably we're still crossing our
fingers that we keep the JV 90ft Diamond throughout the entire construction process I'm not optimistic but we are crossing our fingers so uh however uh this is just a design so we're not actually building anything there um it
would be nice to know if and what we could do to fix that field so that it would be more playable uh there's more to the project for that field than uh drainage as I understand it uh regrading the infield so that that water does get
it get where it's supposed to go um I think that field uh uh as after that was approved we started our work on the Chestnut Street CPC project which is the parcel across from the church at
Chestnut and uh Summers and that uh feasibility started and stopped because they did the Wetland study and there's no room on that parcel at all for Fields so uh we had anticipated one or two uh fields from
that site uh so as we stand that field at the center uh needs to be upgraded and drainage is its biggest problem uh DPW has their reservations like you mentioned they installed that piping uh
10 years ago now down the third BAS line of the softball field out to the pond uh because of groundwater uh the piping was shallow uh and with all the carnival traffic and uh other events yes that
that pipe has had been replaced multiple times so there there again that's why we would do some sort of feasibility studydesign to see if any those conditions are changed Andor uh would support this type of upgrade help with
the drainage in that area and so through the chair my one other concern is I went back and looked at our five-year Capital plan and I've not seen Centerfield even listed and if
this is something that's been going on it should have made our Capital plan um like I said I I know the field floods I understand that I understand the soil basis I understand that a huge portion of this is compaction in the field
Fourth of July we are driving tractor trailers all over it so so the soil gets compacted when the soil compacts guess what it's not going to take in any water um I would rather see at this time um that we hold off let's get the high
school taken care of let's encourage our DPW to air rate the towns to allow more water in multiple times during the year um they can do it a couple times in the spring a couple times in the fall and not to mention like what Long Meadow
just did uh this past year with the new Fields over there you air rate them but then you go and broadcast sand over it so that the holes are full of sand which allows more of the drainage um it's a cheap short-term fix so that we're not
getting into a half a million dollar project which can't even really get going for five years um that's my thought process on it let me make it clear the committee never discussed the total project the only thing we discussed was a design I know what's on
the other side I because we saw it all right and I will say there was some hesitation by the committee on the overall cost to your point so it's not a done deal by any means this was just a start exactly and I understand that I just don't like spending money on something that we're
not going to be I I and I I I get that what I end up seeing especially in like uh delineations and stuff like that they're only good for a couple years you start and then you got to do it again in a few years so when we're ready to do it let's do the whole thing at once that's
my thought process again I'm only one of the seven members here okay I have a quick question um I don't think I mind um the study but I guess I'm thinking longterm and if we're going
to spend I I see this quote from the our our big number is that are we willing to spend that money on Center fields and then continuously have the uh Carnival and
things that's a good like I said you know I think that's just something we have to think about if we're going to proceed like maybe like I said that's the next step and the Comm didn't even go down that we weren't going to go down that road yet it's just it's not it's a huge number I agree by the time we go to do it the number is going to be even
worse yes so this was just no absolutely I'm just what you guys saw is presented to us all right no I'm just saying I just hope that's in your thoughts it is oh it definitely is okay I think my uh reservation is just knowing that if we're going through this
Center Town District planning process now and we haven't really fully decided as a community what that may or may not entail it doesn't make sense for me to say let's spend money on engineering and a study for something that may not the future use of that property and it
doesn't mean that it won't be it just we don't know yet right and I understand all your comments all I'm doing is bringing it Forward okay any other comments there's none I'll entertain a motion to close the public hearing so moved
second any opposed rain a motion to approve I make a motion to approve the funding of the community preservation center field drainage project in the amount of $58,000 from the public Recreation fund
account second motions been made and seconded any further discussion see none this will be a roll call Jim no Kathy no Anna yes I am a no Marilyn not yet no Ralph no and John no not I will communicate that to the
committee thank you thank you Bill really good points have a 630 we have continued from January 28th 2025 the accessory drawing unit
byw get to that one good stuff here okay this is a continued public hearing for a proposed zoning bylaw Amendment related to the town conforming to the new affordable homes act allowing access Wells and required second reading
council members are jden Anna Jones myself Conor a Marilyn Richards Ralph paig and John tche and I would ask the clerk to read the legal notice into the record s Meadow Town Council will hold a public hearing on January 14 at 6:15
p.m. in the media room of the Council on Aging located 28 North Main Street first reading of proposed amendments to the town of East SL Meadow zoning bylaws relative to the Amendments necessary for the town to conform to the new affordable homes act allowing accessory
dwelling units adus by right amendments include the addition of subsection 450-5130 additional use dimensional and density regulations subsection 450-9444 111.2 terms defined table 3-1 schedule
of use regulations and table 3-2 table of dimensional regulations of the East meow zoning bylaws public hearing may also be attended via Zoom webinar information relating to this bylaw is available for public inspection at the town clerk's office an electronic version of the town's website for the
council G quy Town CER of the council thank you Genie you would mind joining us good evening would you mind just providing a brief overview of the Adu byw and how we got to this point sure I could um
welcome a lot of discussion on this I'll talk about the most recent uh rendition from the previous public hearing to now so um the play man subcommittee did get the chance to meet last week to I don't know if it was last week or the week before
but recently to discuss the most recent amendments involving shifting away attached and contained adus from requiring site plan review by the planing board to being administratively approved by the planning department um
since then we I had a conversation with the Building Commissioner because Mr Paige brought a comment um during that meeting where it made more sense to combine the review process through the billing department between both departments for a more efficient and coordinated review process so before you
tonight you have two drafts you have one draft which includes the administrative approval process through the planning department um it has the yellow highlights those are changes made by the plan matter subcommittee at the previous meeting then you have this other version which includes language that shows in
green What alternative text could be if it was just a we're calling it Adu building permit and the Building Commissioner and I thought that was a good idea um it's going to be it would be its own separate um application on opengov for the billing department um
under state law you have to group building permits based on the type of construction you're doing so if it's residential versus commercial or industrial so he was totally fine with it being own separate building permits so when you apply for this Adu building permit it's essentially the same open go
portal you would do for any other type of building permit it's just you have a question where you have to answer if it's going to be an attached Adu or if it's going to be a detached Adu and in that situation if you select detach then you have to wait for the plan Board review before you can continue the rest
of the building permit if it was atached there is an item for the planing Department to review the plans to make sure everything conforms to or the zoning bylaw so then they can continue with the rest of the building permit process and will and I thought that made
the most sense uh that's efficient uh we can incorporate other departments into the review process including Health Department DPW fire everyone the online permitting has tremendously improved our ability to communicate across town hall and doing the same thing with adus just
grouped into one place not only makes that more efficient but also helps with our ability to report to the state every year on the number of permits we issue so having in one location versus two separate spots made the most sense um with the exception of when you have to
apply for site plan review obviously you have to go through the site plan review application process in addition to the billing permit process so I would say between the previous public hearing and now that was the biggest change um I don't know how the council wishes to proceed but that's that's pretty much
the the only updates I have for today great thank you Rob yep yeah is that the other yeah you want to provide an update sure sure I think I think one of the other when we met it wasn't last week it was the week before um I think one of
the other big changes we made was let me get to that section um about the shortterm that's right yes rentals and I think we we we got rid of it um the Adu shall not be used as short-term
rentals allowing them but I think we were under the impression that um residences are are allowed as short-term rentals but I think in the meantime we realize that they're not no so we don't really um the way our zoning bylaw works is that if something's not
specifically permitted it's technically not allowed usually the categories can be broad enough to where you can include certain uses into specific categories in this case short-term rental is prohibited because it's temporary lodging and in our bylaw we prohibit
temporary lodging including motels um campgrounds Etc um so because of that short-term rental is also excluded so the committee decided to I guess leave out that restrictive language right in the event that if you
wanted to update the bylaw in the future to allow for these that's possible so you don't have the double restrictions there I'm sorry would short-term rentals like include also like airbnbs bbo Airbnb anything where you
advertise like an alternative hotel service yeah since we're on the subject um yeah our current bylaw does not allow temporary housing um my feeling is that we should
put the Restriction back into the document because this document is what most people are going to use if they're going to you know construct an Adu it doesn't hurt to say it twice um I'm not looking looking forward to is
Airbnb all over the place I mean it's possibility we have three fireworks yeah far as I know we have three anyway um I would like to see at some point in this process that we put
that language back into the document I know we have a definition of short-term rental which is going into our section of 11 article 11 of the definitions and I think that's written very well it
should be there so that would be what I'd like to see on that train of thought I do have is a something for the new bylaw Review Committee to think about is the different definitions of shortterm and temporary lodging because even when I was reading our existing bylaws what
the bylaw says is not actually the same as the name of the term and the definition so to me I'm not sure that it's super enforcable if our terms don't match and what we're saying we allow and don't allow y we have a lot of unenforceable things in our
well so through the chair can I make a suggestion sure um so what we were given was three different versions the original then the one that the planning matter sub committee had okayed and then
more changes it would be my suggestion that we read in to the record the one that the planning matter subcommittee recommended and then under discussion make any adjustments to that one um so that way there at least as we're reading it we're all reading the same
thing I agree the council the opportunity to accept any amendments or it was put in your packet for informational purposes so you had know what the language would look like to adopt it into the Bible just so that you know I do only
have a halfy page of adjustments so all right so I'm pretty sure she for the book good book pretty sure that's page 20 of 55 that we start would anyone like to so what's your suggestion um I think
there's how many pages there's only like 10 pages if we just take a page and go around like we did last time the same thing as last time so I'd love to start us off sure um what we have is in front of us it says uh article 3 uh PMC which
is planning matter subcommittee updates are highlighted use regulations subsection to any use or building permitted herein are permitted provided that such use shall not be offensive nor dangerous to Life by reason of health or fire and
further provided that such accessory use shall not include any business industry trailer Camp manufacturing or commercial use or other activity conducted for gain other than what is specifically set forth in subsection
special permit yes just making sure we're not changing something number B uh no more than one house trailer may be located on any lot such trailer may not be used for living quarters such trailer shall conform to
accessory building setback uh sidey yard and rear yard requirements of the district in which it is located C an accessory building shall not be used for residence purposes unless it adheres to the special use regulations set forth in subsection
450-5130 5% of the area of the lot on which it is located no principal building shall be erected so as to cover less than 7% of the lot in which it is located in Resident District C in the event that the lot area in Resident District C
exceeds the minimum lot area the minimum lot coverage shall be no greater than that required for minimum siiz lot expressed in square feet four setback a accessory accessory building or structure setback shall be the setback
of the District of the primary building and the setback side yard and rear yard requirements must be met for the district in which the accessory building or structure is constructed any accessory building or structure not including accessory dwelling units shall
be constructed within the sidey yard and or rear yard in The District in which it is constructed shall be erected in such a manner that no portion of this accessory building or structure shall be closer to the Street line or lines than the maximum rear setback of the primary
building plus 10 ft in which event an accessory building or structure may be constructed within 5 ft of the side Lot line or rear yard line not withstanding the foring fencing for neighborhood swimming pools shall conform to the
setback side yard and rear yard requirements for a principal building for the district in which such pool is constructed no part of any building or other structure including porches breezeways or other structures attached to the primary building shall be erected
so as to be nearer to the street line than the nearest Building located within 250 ft of either side of the lot facing the same street and located within the same area or District but in no case will the required setback in this subsection exceed 60 fet in the event of
a primary structure having been erected prior to the zoning bylaw under conditions which allowed its erection with less than the setback requirements of this bylaw the next building erected adjacent to this lot shall have its setback determined by the following
formula the setback of the existing dwelling added to the setback required in the district and the result divided by two the purpose of this shall be to average the required setback with that setback of the existing building such
formula shall be applied within 250 ft of either side of an existing primary structure which does not conform to the setc requirements in The District in which it is located who wants to go next article five special use
regulations um section 450 subsection 5-11 accessory dwelling units ad use a purpose this by law addresses the necessary permitting path and design requirements for accessory dwelling unit
units known as adus in order to site these buildings in an appropriate manner for the community B terms defined accessory dwelling unit Adu an accessory building or addition containing a
housing unit inclusive of sleeping cooking and sanitary facilities on the same lot as a single family dwelling an Adu maintains a separate entrance either directly from the outside or through through an entry hall or Corridor shared
with the principal dwelling sufficient to meet the requirements of the State Building Code for safe egress an Adu is not larger in Gross floor area than 1 half the gross floor area of the principal dwelling or 900 square fet
whichever is smaller adus are incidental and subordinate to the primary building an Adu cannot exist without a single family dwelling on a lot attached Adu an Adu which is in addition to an existing existing single family
dwelling and has its own separate entrance attached adus may also have interval internal I'm sorry internal entryways which connect the single family dwelling to the Adu contained Adu an Adu which is
contained entirely within an existing or new single family dwelling and require requires no significant external changes to the dwelling or site Beyond entrances and windows required by the building code detached Adu an Adu that is a
freestanding and detached building which is incidental and subordinate to the primary dwelling detached adus May either be the product of new construction or an existing accessory building or structure which is converted
into an Adu six applicability one adus are allowed by right in the residents a a a b and c zoning districts and are permitted in one of the one of two ways a attached and contained adus
require administrative approval by the director of planning B detached adus require site plan review approval by the planning board detached adus are not eligible for site plan review waiver
two adus shall not be larger in Gross floor area than 1/ half one half the gross floor area of the primary dwelling or 900 parentheses 900 square feet whichever is smaller three adus shall
only be placed on residential lots which have a single family dwelling on them four no more than one Adu shall be placed on a lot five a mobile home or any other temporary structure are prohibited from being used or classified as adus D General requirements one all
adus shall meet the requirements of the following regulations under Massachusetts state law a Massachusetts State Building Code 780 CMR as amended B State stand sanitary code 105 CMR 410 as amended C title five of the State
Environmental code 310 CMR 15.00 as amended D any other relevant local state and federal regulations two adus shall have the appropriate facilities including but not limited kitchens bathrooms with a sink toilet and shower
potable water source Plumbing connections hot water functional heating system proper ventilation working electricity and operable Windows three adus shall not be sold or transferred separate and apart from the primary dwelling primary dwelling and the Adu shall remain in common or single
ownership four attached and contained adus shall maintain a separate entrance directly to the outside five adus shall be suitable foration all year round and meet the minimum standards for the state sanitary code 105 CMR 410 as amended six occupancy of
an Adu shall be limited to what is allowable under Massachusetts State Building Code 780 CMR as amended and the state sanitary code 105 CMR 410 is amended seven adus shall have their own individual metered Electrical Connection
in accordance with 105 CMR 41035 for as amended this nine but would be the new number eight one off Street Parking Spot shall be provided for an Adu 10 the Adu shall have separate a separate address
from the primary dwelling for the purposes of receiving mail and deliveries an Adu may have the same street number as the primary dwelling and be followed by an alpha numeric character for example 121a 121b both dwelling units shall be easily
distinguishable and properly numbered from the street in order for emergency services to identify each building 11 an Adu shall have separate trash and recycling receptacles from the primary dwelling and must comply with Board of Health requirements 12 in order to encourage the development of adus for
disabled and handicapped individuals and persons with limited Mobility the permit granting Authority may allow reasonable deviation dimensional requirements of the zoning bylaw where necessary to install features that facilitate access and Mobility for disabled
persons 13 right 13 detached adus a detached Adu May either be the result of a new construction or the rehabilitation conversion of an existing accessory building or structure the rehabilitated rehabilitated converted building or
structure shall abide by the provisions of this section subsection 450-5130 have separate water and soore connection from the primary dwelling and shall adhere to the DPW water and soil regulations C detached adus shall meet all primary building setback
requirements for the district in which it is located c table 3-2 dimensional regulations D detached adus that may require a separate curb cut and driveway shall adhere to the DPW curb cut regulations and gain the
necessary approvals e detached Adu shall adhere to the height requirement in The District in which it is located F there shall be no occupancy of a detached Adu until the Building Commissioner has issued a certificate of occupancy e review
process one attached and contained adus a the applicant for the attached or contained Adu shall submit the following to the director of planning for administrative approval one site or plot plan of the property with the Adu setbacks lot dimensions and all building
dimension clearly visible said plan shall also have lot coverage calculations shown two parking plan may be incorporated within the site plan or plot plan which shows number of available parking spots on site three
building or floor plans B upon receipt of a complete application the director of planning shall have no more than 14 days to issue an official decision the decision shall State one of the following one approval with no recommendations two approval with
recommendations before issuance of building fent three denial with written expl explanation of required changes before resubmission you want me to just finish see once an administrative approval is approved the applicant is
eligible to obtain a building permit two detached adus a the applicant for a detached Adu shall furnish a site plan that conforms to the requirement ments under subsection 450-9444
d5.1 D the provisions of subsection 450-9924 15- 9.6 subsection 450-9444
d9.1 shall apply to the permitting of detached adus in accordance with subsection 450-9444 D 7.1 two no building shall be constructed or changed in use or configuration until
the Building Commissioner has issued appropriate building permits three relative permits shall be obtained from the Department of Public Works and Board of Health before the Adu may be inhabited so before you go on can I just
make a quick suggestion under article 9 site plan review We Just note that the only thing that's changing is we're adding a number eight under subsection 450-958-0365 11 definitions subsection 45012 terms defined terms included below
are those relevant to adus unless otherwise specified in other sections of the PW the following terms shall have the meaning meanings indicated accessory buildings or structures a building or structured attached from a primary building on the same lot customarily incidental and subordinate to the
primary building or use accessory building or structure cannot exist without a primary building on a lot an accessory building shall not be used for the for residents purposes unless it adheres to the the special use regulation set forth in subsection 450-5130 than one half gross floor area of the
principal dwelling or 900 ft whichever is smaller adus are incidental and subordinate to the primary building an Adu cannot exist without a single family dwelling unit on a lot I think similarly the rest of those definitions have right so we can skip to both
bre yeah yeah thank you please continue sure gross floor area the sum of areas of all floors of the building including basement cellers mezanine and intermediate floor tiers and Pen houses of Headroom height measured from the exterior faces or
exterior walls from the center line of the wall separating buildings but excluding covered side me I covered sidewalks open roofed areas tches or similar spaces in two pipe trenches exterior Terraces or steps chimneys roof overhangs or similar features next definition primary
dwelling the main or most important dwelling on a lot next definition short short-term rental an occupied property that is not a hotel motel lodging or Bed and Breakfast establishment where at least one room or unit is rented out by an operator through the use of advanced res reservations a short-term rental
includes an apartment house cottage and condominium does not include property that is rented out through tencies at will or month-to-month leases it also does not include time share Properties or Bed and Breakfast homes so through the chair I just want to point out under the definitions that
were just read in those are the ones that are changing there are other definitions but they have no changes in them and then table 3-1 the schedule of use regulations the only change there is to
add a number 12 for accessory dwelling unit Adu under standards and conditions see section 45051 one and under able a it'll be yes a yes B yes yes C yes elderly
residential noal no no industrial no industrial Garden Park no golf recreation no planned us unit residential no planned adult residential no and mixed
use Nam and then under table 3-2 the table of dimensional regulations believe the only changes are to the notes at the bottom so under number two
it would Now read any accessory building or structure excluding accessory dwelling units constructed at least 10t behind the principal building can be erected no closer than 5T to the rear Andor side yard property line any other accessory building or structures must
meet the required side and rear yard set for the okay we have read it in at this time it is a public hearing so if there's anyone in the audience that would like to make any comments forward John
you hiver to ler street I'm the chair of the planning board so we did De vote to submit this to you for further action but I just want to just lay out a couple things so this bylaw is required by the state it's another piece of where the
state is sticking their to local zoning so this town has had the misfortune of going through a number of lawsuits that uh we've had zoning in place that the courts and therefore the legislature have overturned specifically Maryland
knows quite well the solar issue so it costs this town a lot of money defending that suit so the state felt that they could step in and override local zoning hundreds and hundreds of years local
zoning has been it they have decided zones should be how they should be enforced and now recently the state has decided to step into the shoes of local communities to make these changes this is one example I'm saying this because I think
members who are here from the planning board believe that this although we're going to have to pass it because State mandated potentially has the ability to make Major Impact on this community some people will say positive I think the
majority of the planning board will say negative I've always used my street as an example 12 houses on the street I believe at least six of them would be capable of having an accessory dwelling unit on it that's going to increase the
traffic increase the number of kids increased sewer water etc etc that's a small Street you think of all the other residential districts in this town and then all of a sudden all these little tiny houses are going to pop up and it has the potential to
change the character of the town and I kind of relate this to um I'm sure Mr torche knows as well the MBTA uh communities act which now the state has come in required communities
that abut an MBT MBT MBTA station uh or adjacent town to require affordable housing and if they don't then they are no longer eligible to receive state grants so we've got the state sticking their nose into local business where
historically it has never been and I guess I'd like to ask anybody from the town if Mr pupo called the town to see what the impact would be on this whether Jacob ala called anyone from the town to see what the impact would be whether Brian Ash called anyone or whether Mor
hey called anyone in Eon metal to see what the impact would be so I'm just letting people know that this wasn't brought forward by the planning board although we do believe we need more housing some types of housing but it's a kind of a mishmash on how it's being
done and I don't think it's positive I think you leave local zoning to local boards and committees who know eong medal better than the state does thank you thank you thank you is there anyone else in the audience
that would like to make a comment can I just sort of piggyback on Russ's thought there um obviously yeah um we were sort of our hand was forced here but I also want to SP that to a
positive and just say uh from the planning director uh to almost every Department in town that helped create and author this bylaw so the planning board who reviewed it uh to the Town Council and its planning
matters subcommittee to write review amend review in 188 days is exactly how government is supposed to work so the response to something that we really had
no control over was exceptional so I just want to take my hat off to everybody that had any part in this entire process regardless of how you vote uh it was it's phen it's absolutely phenomenal almost unheard of so thank you thank you
Tom okay seeing no other public comments I will close the public input portion of the hearing and it is now up to the council to ask any questions can I go first because you got I've got yours listed here too no no
go ahead go ahead you're good with that under I would like to add the provision for um adus shall not be used as a short-term rental um it would be located under d8 wait a minute section 450
subsection 5.11 D eight eight I'd like to add it back um adus shall not be used as a short-term rental would you like to make that motion to amend so moved I'll second it motion's been made and seconded any further discussion on
the amendment all those in favor please say I opposed no the motion okay thanks that was my third one okay that's easy r
so I've had the wonderful pleasure of uh reading this and rereading it and reading it and um going into uh the state and uh the state's created 760 CMR
71 um which is um what they try to put together for regulations and suggestions as far as uh what they think whether it be definitions or how it should be crafted
um but my my main concern with what we've created is on an attached or contained Adu I think we should require a building permit if someone's putting an addition
on their house all they need is a building permit I don't think requiring administrative review from the planning department is necessary because is under the building department and the building
codes they have to meet all the building codes they have to already Supply a plot plan if he so requests it um a layout if he requests it uh designs um the administrative
review I think should be done internally and I don't think it should be part of the bylaw I think when an Adu application comes into the building department the building department the planning department should talk about it they should look over the zoning bylaws they should see what's allowed what
isn't allowed now I'm not talking about detached under the detached I do believe we should have a site plan I I believe we should know where it's going to be located if there's driveways or anything like that but for the attached and contained I just think we should settle
for a building permit just like we've done for years there's many many houses out there that have quote unquote what I would call in-law apartments there's been no issues because you know what the building department M pay that hey you got to be
this far from the property line and all of that so with that I have a few suggestions um under 450 511 which would be
c1a applicability um I just want to make sure I got it I would remove so the language now is attached and contained adus require administrative approval by the director of planning I would suggest that that be
removed and if you want I'm going to go through these because they're all tied together if you guys disagree with me and you think the planning department should have control um then all of these will probably need to stay in um under
450 511 uh D7 um it states now Adu shall have their own individual metered Electrical Connection in accordance with 105 CMR 410 354 um if you look up 105 CMR subsection
410 3.54 it does not require separate electrical on a attached or contained Adu um if the Adu if you're going to rent it and your electric and your gas are
included you don't need a separate meter it only needs a separate meter if it's a standalone and you're going to have them pay for it so I would suggest a change in language on that um so to State Adu
shall comply with 105 CMR 410 354 regarding metered electrical connections so so basically what that does is it just says hey go to that and follow that guidance guidance um under 450 5.11
e1a e1a um E1 says attached and contained adus under a I would suggest that we change the language that says requires a building permit and must conform to
450-5130 entirety number B so so basically under review process we're just going to be replacing e1a with the language that I just read and removing yeah I can read it all in if
you want it's basically all the approvals um and then the last thing I had was under 45511 e2a which is detached adus under number a at the very end I've got on my
sheet number 13 listed so it says and 450-5130 cached Adu shall furnace the site plan that conforms to the requirements under subsection 450 9.4 and subsection 45051
D which basically just means any general requirements that you need for an Adu you have to conform to other than that I got nothing I I think the question comes in is how's the council feel um do we just
attached and contained adus say a building permit or do we say we want the planning department to have administrative control over it I don't I don't see that as necessary because I think internally they can do it um they
talk they're next to each other all so I do have a comment so I did provide alternative language that actually goes with the idea that Ralph had um that might specify things a little bit further but I do want to suggest about the separate electrical meter connections so it says under the CMR the
reference that so I'm referring to rental housing because these will be rented out once people construct them I guarantee you under state law they have the right to rent them out in the town can't stop them from doing so usually when you have multiple units in the same building you
have multiple metered connections or the landlord does a system where they split the cost of the total building electrical amongst all the tenants but you have to remember these buildings also have shared common areas and it's not fair for tenants of certain buildings to have to split that up so we
thought maybe to avoid that it makes sense to require separate meter Connections in the building but obviously if the town doesn't want to require that on to the applicant of Adu then so be it we can take that out but I wanted to suggest that's the thinking behind including that language was so
landlords or whoever the property owner is that's going to rent out an Adu is going to put in the separate meter connection there that that was the thinking behind it so Mary sure so you're considering basically um if someone's building a
separate addition onto the house that they may want a separate meter onto the house if they want to rent it out I mean it avoids the headache of having to work with the ten every month to have them do a calculation to see that's building that for their in-law they build it it's
a fair point and then down the road they rent it out um it applies cart blanch but we could definitely specify but except actual States is you don't have to have separate meters the only time you have to have them is if you're going to bill
for the electricity in other words you rents $1,000 Plus Electric well if you're doing it that way then you have to have a separate meter if you're saying hey it's $1,000 a month and that includes electric and gas yeah then you're okay with it and so can we
suggest maybe putting language or at least amending that instead of removing it to say if it's being rented out then you have to put this in just so you can exclude those who are using it solely for family or like an in-law but then you may have to go through and rewire the whole house in order to get a
separate meter in it I think a lot of these the attach detached I agree with you 100% separate meter and all attached or contained I don't see it happening um I don't see the electric company even wanting to do it can I just I thought there was that
was the point was GD Andor eversource required separate meters I thought somebody when we had that meeting with all the Departments that that the utility companies requ outside of state law required a meter for every residents it's a general practice that's that's so
I will say the gas company refuses to put a separate meter in or a separate building on my property they said no you run the line off of your existing gas line so electric and that's that's what started did this I went well what do you mean
gas forc big that's not a res that's not a another residence right not yet my law hasn't been passed yet okay I mean in your example that's an accessory structure right well I mean at the corner of it
could be an Adu yeah like I said that's what I was considering and I'm like well geez if I'm going to do this I'm going to want to run separate gas andol in so I contacted them and they went absolutely not so one line per lot I don't recall our conversation about the
gas but I I think the electrical the electric provider was the one that said that they will they prefer Andor impose that they want a separate meter on every dwelling unit I believe when we met with when we had our big staff meeting about this I think it was DPW brought that up
okay and said that's something they've been seeing with the utility companies so for water and gas we don't require separate meters like that could be done together even if it's attached or attach um it's just with the electric because electrical lines are a lot I'm sure it's
still difficult to install but a lot easier to install than water and sewer and gas lines you could easily put the separate meter in there um it's just that was brought up to me that that's a standard practice now and it made sense to put that language in the bylaw just so we could see that more often and
avoid situations where you don't know like the tenant might get screwed over by the landlord because they don't know how much they're paying electricity costs I think it's just a good way of starting a practice where it holds people accountable but also avoids issues in the future I've seen this happen in other
communities I tend to agree with Ralph though that I think it's it's fine if the utilities or other people want to enforce it beyond the town to hook that up and do it but I don't think we need to impose the limitation on oursel that's fine if the landlord wants to
just in not charge you specifically for electricity and that between them and the Tenant to figure out they're going to pay according to state law I don't think the town needs to be involved in that decision making process and didn't Ralph say that if you do charge for electricity it has to be
separate yes yeah that's part of the CMR so so I feel like if they're going to charge for electricity it has to be separate and if they're not going to charge it doesn't so I feel like we're kind of covered yeah right but I do I do think it's critical to mention section
the 105 CMR for10 354 and make them follow those regulations they state regulations you had something no I didn't I'm you want to pick a few of mine that's quite all right okay so with that Ralph you want
to turn that into a motion to amend no I guess just as as a question could you um read aloud the amendment you want so I can record it down I have it you can Jackie's got it too oh
yeah so do you want me to go through these separately and take a vote on each May way to do it um so I move that we um change the language under subsection 450-5130
[Music] currently in there and replace it [Music] um hold on let me find it again yes I C1 a that we remove the language okay
so I move that under subsection 450-5130 all those in favor with the amendment please say I I they opposed Amendment passes next okay um subsection 450-5130 354 regarding regarding metered
electrical connections is there a second second motion's been made and seconded any further discussion on the amendment saying none all those in favor please say I I any oppos the amendment passes next
you um okay subsection [Music] 450-5130 review process um e1a should basically say uh requires a building permit and must conform to
subsection 450-5130 any opposed the amendment passes okay um subsection 450-5130 okay next is subsection 450-5130 there any others yep so well I'm looking because it says C and I thought it was number four so um in the same section I
would suggest under 450-5130 I any opposed the amendment passes subsection 450-5130 for a detached Adu shall furnace a site plan that conforms to the requirements under subsection 450-9444
5.11d second motion's been made in seconded any further dis say none all those in favor say I I I opposed and my last one um under gross floor area which is under the definitions
[Music] um page 10 so it's the third line down it says measured from the exterior faces of exterior walls um I believe that should read measured from the interior faces of the
exterior walls meaning when you're inside of a house you're measuring from wall to wall where currently what this is saying is outside of the house to theide of the house and I base that on the brand new
760r CMR 71 which they've just changed as of January 31st to say interior and by the way well let's go with that so that's my motion a second is there any other discussion about that
yeah okay if there's no other discussion all those in favor please say I I any opposed the amendment passes is that it Ralph so that's all for my changes but I do have a question for Rob um have you seen the new 760
CMR um with all the changes that they've made in the last couple of weeks have not then I am going to give you the Adu suggested changes that I had um and I'll give you that too because it's amazing the amount of language and all that they changed in it
it's absurd yeah sure that won't be the last amendment to this bylaw that's right well that's my point my point is although we're doing all of this that's not even finalized and they've changed the amount of red that went through it it was like it's like you rewrote the
whole thing including gross floor area definition no for a fact that's the definition under the new building code correct because we want the definition that gross area be the same for both building department review and for planing Board review just so there's no discre so so the gross floor area other
than changing interior exterior to Interior it's exactly the same okay but under their definition is going to be completely that was the definition under the was it the Adu regulations yeah but they're confusing us now oh they're
going to change everything and and again they've added absurd amount to it and including Dimensions setbacks and stuff which I'm not in agreement but we'll see what their final outcome is other than
that I got nothing we just did it oh did I do have one that I would like to offer I would move that we amend table 3-1 schedule of use regulations to remove excluding accessory dwelling
units from number two under notes and remove not including accessory dwelling units from section 45033 B4 a did you give the location again please
sure uh table 3-1 under the notes number two and then section 450 3 3.3 B4 a I know two spot do one at a time yeah well the problem is they're kind of
they're the same thing in two different places so if you do one you would have to do the second okay so what was the other one 450 450 3.3 B4 a so essentially my intent behind that
is to remove the additional restriction that detached vus would have to be following the primary structures setback requirements instead of following the existing accessory structure
setbacks I guess my response would be um if they were following an accessory structure that means that the pr that the Adu could just be 5 feet from the property line that and I think that's for a dwelling unit I think that's a
little bit too loose be honest with you go through the chair I tend to agree with Marilyn I think uh the building footprint would be the way to go but I would put forwards
under the new 760 CMR um dimensional standards it basically says if you allow an accessory structure to be placed there that you have to allow an Adu to be placed there um again these are not
finalized but it looks like the state is going into that route um it is what it is well knowing that down the road we're going to have to make adjustments to this I would be more apt to to leave it a little more
restrictive knowing that chances are we're going to have to change this that would be my thought at least for now yeah we could certainly revisit it in the future thought I know so leave it alone for now leave it alone okay that's that's not my
so should we take a vote on well no one seconded my motions I didn't realize that very polite without a second I do think Conor in all honesty I
think that's what it's going to come to I think basically if they allow an accessory structure to be five feet uh the state's going to require us to um and I think part of my motivation for that was it'd be one thing if we had something in between five feet and the
primary structure but our current one the way this is going to say like if you're in say double A if it was a primary dwelling unit like the rear set back would be 50 feet but now for an accessory structure it's 65t so it's
crazy to me that it's going to be even more restrictive than yeah a single family house but anyway we'll take that up in the future oh we're gonna have a lot to pick thank you hey are there any others or comments
or questions if there are none I'll entertain a motion to close the public public hearing Mo second motion's been made and seconded to close the public hearing any further discussion in favor to close please say I I oppos public
hearing is now closed and I will entertain a motion to approve Adu bylaw with all of the offer mentioned amendments that were I'll give it a whirl I make a motion to approve the proposed amendments to the town of East
Long meta zoning bylaws as Pres presented and amended tonight relative to the Amendments necessary for the town to conform to the new affordable homes act allowing accessory dwelling units adus by right has made in any further discussion
okay see none this will be a roll call Jim yes Kathy yes Anna yes I'm a yes Marilyn yes Ralph yes and John I'm a yes he is pass thanks Rob nice job Rob thank you you Rob
BR anyone need a short five minute recess before we can time is a yes no no I can I can I can I can make it I'll get out on this one just you guys right no I gonna be quick we will take a five minute recess
and we will return at do you mind no he does yeah by the chair it's 6:45 somewhere yeah right not here that a long time ago for being patient thank you I would
entertain a motion out of order to 8 E2 second motion please say I thank you I think I need to open the planning board yes please I'm going to call the 645 oh sorry planning on Tuesday February 11th
those in attendance are Russell Denver P underson Bill fansa thank you welcome everyone thank you you and I want to thank uh president O'Shea for invite I think it's a wonderful idea great thank you no I'm glad the planning board accepted the invite and was able to
attend sorry it took so long to get to you on the agenda this evening and I would like to also publicly um recognize robila I think he was a phenomenal hire had done a tremendous job the lines of communication I've been on
the playing board for eight years lines of communication have never been better he is professional creative and I think I just want to publicly recognize it I'd like to make a comment about your your board the council fantastic great really
appreciate all your effort appreciate good job let's wait till our discussion is done good comment the intent of joint meeting this evening was to discuss uh broadly the center Town district and thoughts between both of our boards and
40 r as well so that we could be in alignment when proposed language comes from that Center Town District steering committee that we'll have an idea of where the voting bodies want to take things or where we might not want to take things so it doesn't come as a
surprise to anyone I don't know if you have anything else for the impetus Bo that that was perfect all right like to lead us off I'll start I'm gonna start more with questions um I mean as the planning
board can I just correct the reminder Mr Paige and I don't argue we have discussions yes civil discourse disc then he agrees with me on
so what I'm looking for is your thoughts on a vision for the Centertown District um I'm assuming I know Rob uh you're up to date with the center Town District um what's been going on um the preliminary
layout of uh the area that uh they've suggested to be included in a center Town district and I'm trying to get a a general feel as far as is going forwards do we do we like the path that we're
going down uh what do we think about as far as development of that area um what what are the overall thoughts so that we can combine them together and basically steer um the boards the town
manager and all into what possibly the council or the planning board would actually be looking for and vote on well Rob is the planning board representative so have you start yeah um I I think the last meeting was pretty productive right we brought a lot
more of the town's people in it's starting to become less uh hostile I guess is a word for it but people are starting to kind of get a feel for that we're not trying to make a change for the negatives for the positive right think we all saw a lot of
things that happened in this town where some things tried to come in and we're thrilled with them and we left the doors open because of zoning right so that the whole premise was when I went and met with Tom when I started on this was said the zoning needs to be clean up in the town it's all over the place there's aot pockets of stuff all over if we could
have just a fix that would solve a lot of problems enter all of this so I think we've really delineated a line that makes sense people are more comfortable saying there's not going to be a coffee shop next to my house you're going to tear my place down and rone it they understand now it's really the center
town and kind of the main streets and they're just going to have a cleaner zoning overlay on there the other piece is figuring out what what type of buildings are going to go there what do we want to see want to see multif family do you want to see duplexes do you want to see um multizone type things and I
and we kind of left that with some ideas but I don't think there's anything solid that came out of that yet so that group needs to come back with some more revisions and we'll go from there but uh overall I think it's going in a in a better place than it started I think people are starting to understand it a little bit more and I mean I'm I'm satisfied with it I think it's going in a right way um and there's two different
things right we're trying to do this overlay and there's this other 40R piece as well with it but really just talking about the over lay and changing some of the zoning and what we really want to see there so I think I've been to five of the meetings several of which they
allowed the public to to uh Express their opinions I do believe the center of the town does need zoning I mean there's manufacturing next to retail next to office space it's all over the board there's no Rhyme or Reason it it feels
like no Rhyme or Reason so I think that certainly does need to be cleaned up I personally would not mind seeing some creative type of housing there that is
compatible with um a a use that would enhance the economic Vitality of so I'm thinking higher level higher higher income of people who have have
discretionary Monies to be able to spend on hopefully the retail that you know generated as part of that some of the Professional Services that are kind of generated for that I've also always thought that um or I do know there's a
lot of money available for Elder housing in Center districts and it would be great to maybe reach out to which I have done with Mr Carr to look at the potential opportunities of Elder housing you're not adding school age kids to the school system the amount of traffic
that's generated is substantially less the monies that are available are associated with recreational activities you've got the uh the bike path right there so I'm kind of looking at something you know that's not as much discretionary income but if the concept
is to vitalize the area you need type of housing where people have discretionary income to be able to spend kind of rejuvenate it I think uh in the previous discussion on accessory dwelling units I think you know my opinion about the state being involved in anything
associated with uh with with the town and you know I went today onto their site and Tom not to pick on you but I mean you talked about the ability to potentially get $600,000 from the state this is the last
meeting that I went to put in like 500 units to get that 600,000 or a combination of 200 units and then you get the $33,000 bonus per unit is what the formula look like to me that's a lot to start right there and some of you
don't know me and for nearly 15 years I was the president of the Springfield Chamber of Commerce and in that role we brought in a group called The Urban Land Institute and they were developers and planners from you know them really distinguished individuals
from all over the country and their focus was not to concentrate affordable housing units into any one specific area because of the economic Vitality that I
talked about so um I've kind of taken that and used that with me for you know since they came into Springfield to do that I know I'm not comparing Springfield to EA Meadow or the rotary but it did stick with me that if you want more economic Vitality then you can
put in housing that uh people who can afford to live there uh you know have that discretionary disposable income so 40R I'm just not a fan of right now because of the tie to the especially to the tie to the state
so can I just just one piece of that and um I don't remember saying that but I was on a roll you were double check that because somebody else brought it up yeah and the create the if you create a district that can
create that many units before they're even built that is the initial payment okay good y so and I also unfortunate my family has a home in Fair Haven Mass which is right next to New Bedford that
is a community that just adopted 4 R I think in October completely different type of District it's right on the uh right on the ocean front so but it was a uh it was a battle in that town
similar size Community like 16,000 people uh but they are getting Bedford is getting the MBTA uh that will open up in March so they're expecting they're kind of expecting people who are priced out of
the bark Boston Market to come down and so that to me that kind of fits but you knowly Pete well my comment I can't say it any better than you Russ because you have lot more experience in that type of Market but um I would also agree that
any housing down there should be a housing that is has a large Advantage by having you know services available to it which would be people that have a little more discretionary income um maybe retire retirement community and in my
mind it doesn't mix with 40R I'm 73 years old I would love to live down in the center of town do I want a family of young children living next to me no no my house is empty without our kids God bless them they're doing well but it's nice it's nice to to
have that peace and they have a walking Community you can go and get service you want some ice cream it's there you want to store it's there I'm all for that I think that that's what my view of it is and so I I am not a proponent of 40R
I kind of agree with everything that's being said my main concern is the restrictions that 40R would place on us just like we just went through this Adu and the complexity there the 40R is going to be the same ball of wax and once we get involved in it hands are tied just like there with the we have no
choice but to adopt the ads we have an opportunity here to find a path that would satisfy all the needs without entering into the 40 hour because to Russ this point the zoning is a mess all over the place we can clean all it this up now's the opportunity to do it and do
it constructively so that everybody's happy and not be beholden to the state correct that's that's a a major thing in my mind it's not to be beholden to the state um been here since 1951 watch The Grow it's a fantastic Community with great people great leadership and to
have the state say no uh we don't agree with your leadership to me is wrong and I'm I'm that dead set against it it just takes a lot of decisions out of our hands unfortunately I think the intent was good originally but I can't support it for that for we lose just too
much we lose too much control that we have now we we have the opportunity like I said we have the opportunity to do something and really make everybody happy and Revitalize this area we do have the opportunity to accomplish what we want to do right which is redo the zoning make it make sense yeah create
some potential Housing Opportunity either hopefully Elder housing or whatever you know I I sat through it was last week or the week before and I saw what pioner valley put up I think they put four examples so they had like the
tow houses they had absolutely opposed to single family housing in that District doesn't make sense at all not a duplex guy I don't think it adds value to what we're trying to do to kind of vital Revitalize the community but the
apartments on the second floor ex perfect perfect that's how I Vision it too yeah yeah if if you've ever been to Europe and I mean essentially their cities are that yeah you know they're all second floor apartments or third
floor and we do have buildings that could facilitate that I just think of the law offices of Frank Fitzgerald if he ever moves out of there you can do that you know there are other you know look at Mario's uh that whole building
that turned into like a salon on the second floor that could be housing the building next to Subway um that has a Tarot reader in it that's that's potential too yeah and
if they're going to be Apartments I mean those people are going to have a tendency to be younger with more money they're not they don't have children yet or if they do it's one or two and you kind of create that Vitality that way as well so I'm open to options but it's got
to make sense tied not with our hands tied it doesn't make sense to overcrowd the center of town in that capacity at all I mean if you redesign the center of town no matter what you do there's going to be a rotary no matter no matter what you have for intersection there going to be a
backup at school time there going to be a backup somewhere in the intersection when the industrial industrial Garden Park Industrial Area empties out there's nothing you can do about it so we're going to have a rotary regardless it could be set up differently Ralph Paige made a comment the other day with me about the rotary at Six Corners works
great you know a redesign of that would be really nice so to get 500 units regardless of the money you get doesn't make sense with the town at all and and got to think about it one way or another 330 chesna street is going to get it's
going to get approved somehow in some shape or form so we have to look at that also but I think it's important to point out your viewership is probably much higher than our viewership I'm not sure
the town has indeed taken steps to create the possibility of more housing and different types of housing in town so I know Marilyn and Ralph at least were on the board and Cathy you probably around the board when you did the
village District I don't know what it ended up being called yeah uh but potentially there were going to be 400 units of Housing and the original concept said y town houses condos and some apartments
and I think the Town Council added the requirement to have 10% of that be affordable so the town has taken steps to create it and if my memory serves me correctly there were at least two or three other Parcels in town that met the
40 acre requirement for an overlay District to beyond that I I won't specifically say which ones they are but uh I so it wasn't just that one site and it could be done and so the town has taken affirmative steps to try to
alleviate the housing create different types of housing opportunities for the residents and put in some affordable so I add to his comment sir um when we were in the middle of that endeavor and it took a couple of years by the time we were done because it was just very
important to carve out something that um me was able to be you know meet the needs of the developer as well as protect the town and many times during that process we discussed how it would
be really nice to create a downscale bylaw of what we did so that we could perhaps do it someplace else within the town or the Town Center um you know I I don't think any of us is against a mixed use concept it's just
where and what kind of impact fact and the density just is I think it's incredibly too much I I applaud the public process that's been used I really applaud the uh the boundaries that I
think you ended up with because my neighbors on leester Street kept coming in and knocking at me about it going all the way up North Main Street um but um so I think the process has been good I think it's allowed enough uh of public
input which I think has been really positive whether people like it or not but I think it was important to do that and to Marilyn to your point I agree with everything you said but let's not lose local control over the way we go go about this I think that's important to me I think it's important
to everybody I know I've had a discussion with Ral about the boundaries and the boundaries that we came up with um which are pretty much the boundaries that are being looked at that really does enhance the center town that really does help e
meow and um Steve's project he puts some buildings up with apartments above it and have all these services at your fingertips you don't have to drive a lot of places I think that's a real real win for the town the other interesting thing if you just look at the development so
uh Joe Town's building is now going to be a jewelry store I I don't know what's going to be open but the work they've done there really looks very very nice the former ACR Power Equipment building you know that has come out really really
nice and so you know the jewelry store is one that might need people with more discretionary income and you know those are kind of things that are building blocks to kind of rejuvenate the the Center
District other Council thoughts but we haven't heard from you yeah so so I've got a question as far as uh proceed um let's say we create this Zone um it's going to be the center Town District zone what's the Thought on the board for
um residential I'm going to use Carlin combustible because the town owns it it's a pretty good siiz lot um let's say we have the ability to do um like a brownstone Gardens in there or something like that um would the board be thinking
more as of right that people could develop their land like that or do it under special permit or a combination of both or special permit well again I let you say um special permit it have to be special
permit yeah I mean I with special permit and I'm talking to two former chairs of the planning board which always makes me nervous but I mean we can't so I go back to hearken to the
Urban Land Institute and I'll just kind of give you Springfield history so remember Chestnut Towers downtown Springfield that was built and that was built as a quote luxury apartment oh yeah and after 20 years I remember that after 20 years the city allowed that to
away and I the city May probably today kind of wish they hadn't done that and it's no longer that way and you have a concentration and I'm not and I'm not casting aspersions on anybody socioeconomic nothing but it's
demographics it's actual demographics about the disposable income to revitalize an area and so that's kind of what I'm I'm looking at but know that was a that was a big mistake that the city made on something like that the Elder housing concept is really
interesting I mean I'm on the board of Brownstone Gardens as is Maryland um well-maintained very little issues associated with that um the property management has been in place for 50
years this year yeah it's a great story um you know the amount of traffic that goes in out is very minimal obviously there are no schoolage children in there so it's not a kind of a I'm not going to
call it a burden but a there's not an additional amount of students you know in the school system very creative and you don't necessarily want to add that much more traffic at that location if we're talking Carlin kushed so that's a
that's the roadway to the school no you know it was Brownstone Gardens that um I think it demonstrated to us when we were looking at the mixed use Village district and and incorporating 10% affordable housing in
that development that Brownstone has low to moderate affordable Market units in their in their facility and it's integrated in such a way that all the units are the same the amenities are the
same you don't know if your next door neighbor pays x amount or x amount it's it just works really well and that was the intent with the bylaw that we created that it would be such that um there would be no affordable Wing where
everyone who couldn't pay certain prices were you know settled over there it was that all of the these units 10% would be 10 out of every 100 would be um integrated in a way that everyone was living in harmony with one another and
so I I you know it can work well it also works well because there's an age restriction so you you may have you know a difference in affordability for people but the same age restriction is there so you're getting the same type of situation whether it's low income or higher income you're getting the same
type of situation in each place I I point to the the one I always continue to go back was the new spot in wilham just south of wilham mson um developer did a great job with that it's a pizza shop I think a brewery and four or five Apartments upstairs um it's completely filled it rented out and it
looks great right and it would be nice to have more of those pop up in town you have a few people upstairs and have some small businesses underneath that make it look a little more vibrant right and I think a few of those would go a long way and that's kind of what I Envision as we make these changes and going through and
if you're adding different housing types I think you mentioned this the last meeting you could have an existing building that's vacant and put in and allow the overlay District would allow um Apartments to potentially go
into a currently vacant building wanted to increase the property tax from that so you take an empty building you fill it and you kind of create more housing but you also create more tax revenue you know we do have some uh Legacy
industrial buildings you know in the center District you know they've been sitting empty for quite some time and if you can retrofit those and use them now you can't but if you change to allow different types of housing than you could so that to me that makes
sense so we're doing all the Talking we want to hear you don't want to send you something and then you go no no no no so I I know a couple times you've used the terminology an overlay District um I will be straight out I'm not for an overlay District an overlay District
goes over the top of what's existing which would mean that you can continue to use the underlying district and I think that's one of the things we need to get rid of we need to remove the industrial we don't need to leave that and then put this over it my thought
would be we create a base District Center Town district and and choose you know business uh businesses that we can allow in commercial that we can allow in um whatever we want in there whether it you know certain residential other
residential um and create a whole district for that I agree yeah you can be assured that anything I vote on will allow banks in Miss Center yeah yeah we do appreciate
that believe they would be grandfathered in any way I'm sitting here and it's like deja vu it was many years ago on the planning board where we worked with Pioneer Valley Planning Commission to craft out a Center District a town district and
then a there was a subcategory so it would you would have the town district and then sort of a blend of certain uses and then you would have your residential development now our zoning is such that you know someone we have our business district and we have residents right behind so um the uses we were trying to
CH to perhaps add some additional uses to the districts that weren't already there thinking that they were would be comparable or okay for where we were going to put them um the the town just
erupted into you know great concern they were losing their protection they wanted to be behind the commercial District they didn't want us to change any uses so the message I'm saying is whatever we do for the Center District we you know whatever use is you have to be sensitive
to what's next door because you guys live right on top of one another and I know when you live in a district that's a buts a business Zone you have to accept more nuisance issues but on the reverse if the town is going to make some changes we need to make sure we
don't put a um you know a rather active noisy use of but residentials no landscapers our wash our
wash so through the chair sure so I'm brought back to years ago and I'm going way back 15 20 years now when we had annual town meeting and a smart growth plan was brought forwards to the
town I was at that town meeting and if you want to talk about angry citizens um I can only think of one other time and we won't go into that that they were even more Angry um but they
overwhelmingly it was um I I'm going to guess it had to be 80% uh voted no I mean you couldn't hear anything other than the screaming of no um I think there was one wise guy that said yes and it was probably me but um so our town is
at least in the past and again overtime things change what our Town's really been hey let's stay away from what the state calls smart growth and all let's do it ourselves we can make this better um and I sort of take that going
forwards um I listened tonight to the speakers that came up um and I've been at the meetings um I I've yet to hear someone stand up in the audience and say you guys are all wrong um I think we should go this way
I think we have to take that into consideration and move forwards basically setting that aside and saying hey let's do this ourselves let's create our district let's create what we want in it let's put in our
safeguards and go from there I mean there are some interesting spots in the district yeah so I think of right next to health tracks so kind of between Health tracks and the backside of brot practitioners y there that gigantic area right there hug huge do you want
duplexes there no no no but you want to kind of create a nice Enclave with maybe condos or tow houses that might be really interesting Carlin is obviously the you know the other example but I mean there are Pockets where you could
actually do something very creative with with different types of Housing and keep in mind a lot of that is zoned unfavorably to what our vision looks like right and that's like first and foremost what we are trying to fix but I think we started the conversation with zoning is a mess and
we need to start there and that's where that's where we start and we go go for that a lot yeah it's a good thing we're gonna have a committee to look at it yeah sure um I want to just um
elucidate some point that um developed over the conversation around the Adu bylaw and the reality that this is a town that um has the potential to see a surprising number of per permits
taken out you know over time and that is to strikes me as um an unintended attempt to force density on you know we can't control which streets I'll go back to what you said Russell
you know six Parcels on your street could if circumstances go that way choose to place you know a Adu that's that's kind of like force density without or subtle density imp
position without um any control over us so in that light since we don't have control there to me it makes sense that we need to maintain local control
over uh what we want this Center District to be good point absolutely I think we're all on the same page here it's how do we get there I think that's the next how do we get I think it starts with I'll go back to what you know Rob and Russ are talking
about and and start with the zoning and let's let's look at that we do a deep dive there and go forward industrial zoning has to go yep first and foremost I but I I I was shocked at that U that statistic that I think that said that
East Longo had the fewest number of new housing permits in the last 20 years that come from the pioner valley Planning Commission I did that ring I don't remember hearing that hearing all right forget it done probably I wouldn't
be surprised because the most common type of residential construction we have is single family homes not as common anymore because they're really expensive and people who are younger so I'm almost 30 my demography can't afford to live in those Homes at all a child
so complimentary though have to be a homeowner in a different town so I just think that you know creating housing opportunities for younger people is how you bring young people into town because right now they're being driven away or remaining with their parents so I think that's something that the town needs to
address through zoning by allowing for multip types of housing to become possible I would Echo that sentiment because I'm a prime example I grew up in town born and raised here but I can't afford to purchase a home in my own Hometown so if I was to look at something I'd probably be leaving and
that's pretty sad because we don't allow more dense housing construction anywhere on the same page but they are there are parts of Islam metal where it's single family housing and the density is very it's pretty dense so the
whole Northern section from Springfield you go all the way up to Heritage Park and hang a left on I can't remember that Street Dearborn and both sides of Dearborn you know John post war yeah I know yeah those are
those tight those are very very tight they're smaller they're not the mega mansions that you know we only hear about Ralph lives in but um I mean there are but I are
Pockets project Pockets yeah there are pockets and there's a lot of them there's a lot not just the north end it's scattered throughout the top or SE SAU there are but I think we're missing that mix of housing types because when you just have those Pockets yeah the people once they acquire it they're not
leaving and or you hope they don't leave let's put it that way well you do and you don't then that means that other people can't either enter your community or stay in your let us start at hom yeah it would be really good if the state had a program where they would provide money
to developers to develop smaller um smaller housing and make it more affordable for the developer to build those type of things it like incentivized the developers to to build smaller homes that are going to be more affordable and
then you build 50 of them and the state comes in and kind of supplements that to the developer 40b 40b you can do the deed housing yeah but I don't want to be tied to that yeah but it's a different process it is a
different process those process exist through the chair you know what I think Connor is echoing and I think I feel like we both represent that is if the town wants to grow and continue you know I think the last 50 or 60 years it was we kind of filled the town with a lot of
single family homes and the reality is is that our generation just can't all afford single family homes that might not be the most realistic pathway so I think we want to retain you know I grew up here my entire life you grew up here your entire life like a lot of us want to stay here and then a lot of our
parents or grandparents want to stay here but they don't want to take care of some gargantuan single family home right there right now yeah you know they want to you know be able to downsize but stay in the area that they feel most comfortable with their friends are here their family are here they build a life
here um so I think that we shouldn't lose sight when creating this district and I think we should do something because if we don't then the state will you know kick the door in and continue to do these things because we are we have a lack of um housing stock in the
state right now we're not growing compared to other states in the country and it's going to have a long-term economic impact if we don't try to at least look to turbocharge that but I also agree local control is important because I think what we do well here is we have really good local control so we
shouldn't lose that at all so I I don't think we should necessarily get the state in here but I think we should really definitely make sure we uh leave here creating something instead of nothing I think also density has a benefit and a downside to it so downside is obviously congestion if it's too
dense but if you find just the right level you can make something work but on the other side you're going to build housing that you can almost guarantee is going to be filled single family home is harder to fill or sell right now than a multif family multifamilies you usually have weight list for a lot of places you
have people competing for rentals that's very common um a developer sees multifamilies as very profitable way more profitable than a single family home if you allowed for any sort of multif family that could be four or more units that's definition of multif family you would see a lot more of them if it
was allowed in a specific Zone I can tell you right now there's going to be developers coming in to take advantage of any sort of vacant property to build mixed use multif family buildings I think the other part of that too is whether we like it or not Islam is a suburban community Suburban means that
we're next to an urban community and so we can't stop the growth we're going to continue growing whether we like it or not and we need to utilize the remaining space that we have left most efficiently and I think most densely because otherwise we're going to end up like our neighboring Community Long Meadow that
is entirely built out there's nowhere else to put another subdivision and then the budget is gonna have the highest tax rate that's why the original concept at 3:30 Chestnut yeah would have solved a lot of this you
would added 400 plus units of additional housing for younger individuals and for those people like soon to be myself who would want to sell their house and go into something that's being maintained by someone else I mean it it was really kind of a home run and it's unfortunate
it never came to fruition but your point Connor to your Point John about affordability I think adus are going to take care of a whole heck of a lot of problems for people be a to come here and afford to live here that's done properly he's also just say through the chairs like I don't I want to try to
avoid having a situation where we're pricing more people out of this community I think we take pride in you know we're a workingclass community or I think that's what our Roots have always been so I you know obviously housing prices have gone up significantly in every part of the country but trying to
sort of retain and not lose so many families or so many people that continue to stay um but may not necessarily be in that income bracket or have as much of that disposable income that others might and the good thing about the adus I know we just passed it tonight so it's brand new
law um but I've seen other committies where they're allowed you know you have Grandma and Grandpa they've lived here for 50 years now they can downsize into a smaller apartment that's either attached or not attached to the house and their grandkids and kids can live in the regular house and then they can kind
of do a cost share mechanism you know they can also downsize and rent out the big house so they can afford to pay the taxes because they may have already paid paid off the mortgage certain number of years ago so it it allows for more flexibility on allow allowing people to age in place which is how you keep those
community members in town and allow for other people to come in as well so it's just those small zoning mechanisms that really help guide the path towards increasing the housing stock and I think mixing the uses in the center is important because not only do we need a
lot more housing in town but we want uses from a commercial perspective that are compatible and really just economically viable like the idea that anyone would think that you're going to get like these small boutique shops just is not going to happen because no one
shops there they wouldn't really be able to sustain business we're lucky that we have a few but to think that we're going to add more is I think unrealistic I think something that would Thrive though is adding say more restaurants or coffee shops that Services Services you can
take your phone and buy anything you want in five seconds a lot of us myself included if you think you want to go out to eat I don't really go to the center of East Long Meadow I go to any other community around here except my own town because there's really not a lot of options there's a couple restaurants and
you don't want to eat at the same one every single time she be attach housing to that it makes use buildings perfect because you have more customers that can go to these places a lot of people would rather walk down the street to go get food than have to drive there it would make sense to me to go out my front door
and boom there's a little retail store or boom there's a a bar that I can watch a game at or something that's definitely more desirable than just being isolated away from these commercial areas and I and I I don't know why I do this but I read the Facebook forums forong
medic that's on it just blows my mind that's just so incredibly inaccurate all the problems yeah but if you kind of just look at the District that you've kind of outlined I don't know how much you can put in there for new housing I mean I I have been
involved in a lot of development over the years as have you and if you could put in a 100 units you might be doing Yan's work and they all wouldn't be situated in one
location except if you well if you took down the Carin Bild and you might but I mean there are limited opportunities for a lot of housing so those people who are going crazy over the amount of traffic it's going to create in the
congestion yeah it's no I I hate to burst anyone's bubble but is mano doesn't have a rush hour they have a rush minute yeah and the rush minute is Shaker Road between 3 3:30 and 4:30 going through the rotary after school on Chestnut Street and maybe an occasional
coming in off of Elm Street Maple Maple Maple yeah yeah so and your point the cost to convert these is not simple you don't throw a second floor onto a commercial building it'sot built sufficiently to support the tops right so there's opportunities but it's not going to be widespread Le
immediately we definitely have to get creative with this I guess we can be a little more vocal because we're all appointed we're all elected can you can you back here good
luck that was very hard people on the charter commission that decided to make the planning board appointed rather than elected yeah so that the appointed board can make you know some really difficult decisions about rather than worrying
about that and the other thing so there there's a big difference big difference Mr Liden we haven't heard from you you said it all he made his comments earlier that were I think a lot of what um it's a
flexibility and you know watching where I'm at in my my life cycle currently to my parents and helping them kind of downsize you know there's very limited opt they came from springfeld they're out in wilham now there's very limited options for them to really follow up on so promoting something that helps turn
the housing stock over you know get you guys some housing get you guys out of your housing and you know more of a natural life cycle to our housing stock and not not holding you know people not holding on to homes for 50 60 70 years I think that's really what I'm hearing there and again you know the local
control thing is that's major to me huge um is a completely different subject but as you guys know with the state you know when I was s in the mayor's office in Springfield and you know one day decid to cut the Quinn Bill where I'm going to hook for millions of dollars at that point in time you know the state wants to tighten their belt they'll tighten it
and they'll throw you right under the bus without a without of concern oh yeah maintain that local control is a is a huge huge factor to me in this whole process what are we doing think we're good feel like we're all kind of on the well I mean I don't want to State the obvious
but we are in a uh 4dr feasibility process uh meaning does 4dr make sense for isang Meadow um the first meeting we said if it didn't then we'd figure out what did so I still think there's a lot
of misinformation about 40R in this whole process that uh I guess I've accepted a certain amount of because the Facebook forums and all this stuff once the information gets out it's hard to get back
um the point being the development downtown was always a main goal the 40R was a feasibility Grant study that a lot of people have put a lot of time in to try to educate on what 40R
is if if this body and this body is saying that that's not something that you're going to consider well then the feasibility of 40R doesn't appear to be too good um but we're in the middle of a process
in which um you know Rebecca and the steering committee have been sort of walking down this path that was laid out by the grant process and uh you know I sort of uh you know at this point as we're looking back if if sort of we had
known this was the consensus of both the next boards from the steering committee that 40R was not going to be even considered uh there really was no need to go down this grant feasibility Avenue um and maybe you have this opinion
because we went down this Avenue either way we seem to be at a point where it's is it time to break off from 40R like is that something that that everyone's saying it s i mean it sounds to me like that's what we're saying that's what I'm
saying so through the chair so Tom my understanding was we created a center Town District steering committee that we are looking at a center Town district and a center Town District bylaw correct with that being
said we were to take a look at 40R and see if that was appropriate or not y because at one of the first meetings of the Centertown District Pioneer Valley planning said well let us know if you guys aren't even interested we'll just do a bylaw based on the center Town
District that's what you're hiring us for you're hiring us to write a bylaw right and this seems to have morphed into more of a 40R Zone District instead of hey let's take a look at a center Town district
and see what's good what's bad maybe 40 y would work maybe it won't and it's just completely flipped over to everything we do is geared towards 40R right and but we haven't we haven't we haven't wrote written a
sentence yet so I did 40 foot Heights no my point is the process was to write the bylaw of course and and this was always my number one goal before I even knew we had this grant for
40R right this is a this is a good idea right I mean I think so before weite wrote anything that's one of the reasons I asked for this meeting okay because I don't want to go ahead and write a b and then say doesn't work now
let's move on to this where at least this year we've heard a lot of discussion on what we like and all and from what I'm hearing is um let's move away from the 40R requirements that we can take some of it you know as far as
you know maybe some of the densities work and all and we can create our own bylaw with it but let's not apply to the state for a 40 yard so okay so we were always creating our own bylaw like you said we were always going to do that the
only state involvement is we send an application in with the bylaw and they say you're eligible or you're not eligible that's it that's Lally it sounds easy except for when you take can go to 40R I mean I
I can read through this um you know you're allowed to change your own zoning um but you have to get approval from the state when you go to change it if it touches any other smart Zone I mean you have to check your eligibility you they can't stop us from changing our laws
that's in our Charter they can say you're not eligible anymore because you don't meet the requirements you're not eligible and we're going to take the money back so hey you've done all of this exact right so I think our point is that's what I'm saying the hell with the money let's
create our own bylaw Our Own Zone and move forwards that's my thought and again I don't mean to put words in anyone's mouth except yours J know where I already said it already know exactly but we all agree on we we
need new zoning right we need want to revitalize the center we realize that there are various options to get there you know the presentation from the steering committee two weeks ago when they started to put up different housing types I thought that was really fascinating and the discussion that your
committee had was really really interesting and so loved that public process but let's just use that and move forward through the CH sort of a question while we're just still talking about now 40R it um with there obviously
I don't think we clearly all pretty much generally agree that having State Control would not be the best idea but was there elements at all in the 40R that really stood out to you as maybe good ideas um that they sort of laid out so not necessarily adopting 40R and
adopting the money but maybe adopting certain Provisions guys felt or was it all didn't get to any of them yet yeah I mean the conversation really didn't go much further than that first couple meetings and then it really for my
gathering most of these last public meetings and steering committee meetings we've had have all been directed around where that overlay is going to fall right what's going to be in that zone what types do we want to classify in that zone so we have a list of them so it really has steered steered away the steering committee from 40R from my
understanding it really started at the beginning of it again maybe it was some INF misinformation and we didn't get too much deeper into it was you know there was a payout that this the town gets if we promote more of this type of housing helps with affordable housing which uh
again sent socials wild when they heard that um but it was more of just like taking the ratio of incomes and it really wasn't what we had envisioned that but it was just having a housing like Conor had said and Jonathan said that people can actually
get into some housing right because it is it's very expensive out there um and we felt taking the money and being bound by some of the rules by the state which could walk away at any time or put more on us it was more beneficial to just do this on our own create this overlay and
see how that walked away maybe I'm misunderstanding that's how it felt as we progressed to the meetings and and the thing I found very interesting and I don't know if it's specifically tied to for are but your committee started talking about subdistricts within the uh thought that was fascinating because if
you look at your boundaries Shaker Road is vastly different than you know around Center Square you know and so that was really interesting to me I don't so I don't know if that's part of 40R but but that was a really fascinating thing to continue to so just from a directional standpoint so
that we're still being productive we because we haven't talked about any of the components of 40R other than the fact that it's a state law and we're not interested in that we can still explore some of the portions of it I.E density and affordable like kind of
like the mixed use Village that's already on the books which you guys have 12 units an acre and 10% affordable is that right 10% affordable I'm I'm just you see what I'm saying I think we're all we're and again I I think 10% the
reason we chose that for the Mixed juice Village was based on 40b uh you're trying to get it to at least a 10% in town of affordable housing yeah so we decided hey if we're going to allow this many housing units in guess what we
shouldn't go backwards we should at least get to 10% so and that and that's the part of the process that we were almost to which was if if 10% was all that anybody had any appetite for that's not 40 hour eligible
end of conversation right but we just never even got to that point in the process because Hey listen I'm happy about how how Rebecca and the steering committee did all these I mean we had more public input than I think anybody
ever thought we were going to have which is great because that was the point was to build a center Town District the way the town wanted to and if 40R is not it if we're never going to get to a 20% affordable 40R is not an not an option
it's just not that's one of the main components is a 20% affordability and if nobody has any any appetite based on our current zoning Andor what we think now conversation's over and and you know we got a little
worked up before we even got to a point and that's fine because the feasibility was the point it was literally in the grant we're just trying to see if this was even feasible one important thing that I resum was you actually explained the affordable
housing can you remember when you did that right so that equation was stood out to me as like 80% of market value yeah but you can say up to 62,000 500 your income no your income right
that's and you kept saying up to so that leaves a lot up to no not I'm sorry I said up to no I that TR that that 80% income is 880,000 that comes out to is
May what I said that got a lot of people kind of yeah so from zero to 62 and you're good that's what that's I so then I misspoke and I apologize because that's not what I meant 80 % you know where I'm going here $62,000 a year so if you're looking at your income yeah
what what it's saying is you can't make above right 62,000 so if you make 56,000 a year you're eligible to get into that so some people only make 30 um doesn't necessarily mean they're going to be able to afford
one nothing personal but I know what the market is on the I saw what the town assessment my house at that was one of the things we were trying to dispel was the lowincome housing phrase which was never a part of this at all ever ever
ever and who said that oh L that's not the farthest neighborhood we heard was getting demolished by this by this Center Town District um but so that again that's fine we're just looking for for direction now because if 40R is out
that means most likely a lot of the components were a little bit too much of an ask but again we didn't even get there so if if we're going to do some work now and build a center Town District without 40R what does that look like I think I
think I agree with you about the overlay thing 100% it needs to be a zone change exactly and everybody's agreeing with r this year I'm having a good night here so then we'll just continue the
conversation about what those requirements will look like right I mean so from what I heard I mean it sounds like a mixed use mixed use is a great idea if we can mix business and uses together it sounds great from what I
could understand it sounded like single family dwellings in the center of town we not so much for that no duplex not trying to create those we got plenty of those I'm just saying I mean I think that's something that we can look at that district and say hey let's look more towards a mixed
use um you know allow that you know I don't know how you feel as far as condos apartments as long as the area is large enough to be able to put some in um I think those are things to consider um with with appropriate restrictions like
height you know that that type of thing you don't want a 20 unit apartment Block in the in the center Square brick I don't think that I I don't think anybody I haven't I haven't heard anybody say yeah let's do
that that's wonderful you know but you know I I think your your board your committee started talking about a height restriction at your last meeting yeah and it would essentially but be three floors I mean similar to The Zone that it that already there and similar to and
similar to other property Heights that it surrounds something to be fair I mean kind of the days of the square building behind us and we're going to do design review for this District someone want to volunteer for that you
know we got know I think you know the design view aspect of that is huge because that gives the town the ability to say that's ugly that's not ugly make this conform to what the district the character and the design of District entails so I think that's a big proponent of this I would love to see
the planning board take a look at at the district and say this is sort of what we want I mean I'm thinking you know Peak proes are you know I I go down to the cape and you drive down and the buildings look the same um I'm not
necessarily saying that's what we need but I'm just saying to come up with something along with the design review and say hey over the next 30 Years this is what we'd like our Center to start looking like I mean I think we did that once before that's how we had the the zebrick and all put in and
then all of a sudden it was like yeah yeah whatever those people are no longer on the board see you later I don't know if the state still has that tax increment financing referred to as a tiff yes if you create they have Tiff for housing yeah you know that type of
thing it's an incentive to the developer been for commercial buildings large commercial buildings so where are we going me here now that it's nine so through the chair do you want me to make a
motion um if you'd like to sure if someone would like to Second it's up to you guys but um so I would move that the Town Council instruct the town manager not to seek eligibility for 40R instead to
instruct all employees and interested parties to proceed with the creation of a center Town district and related by law without the 40R considerations to do it on our own second motion's been made in seconded is there any further
discussion seeing none all those in favor please say I I hi hi so that gives you direction thank you I like the conversation I greatly appreciate you guys coming in thank you your thoughts we're gonna need more input too absolutely and so from our
last meeting in your Valley is going away and coming back with some design things types and things that can go in there so they're gonna have and exactly so instead of create creating the wheel still a huge bylaw to create like you said all the heights dimensions and all
of that stuff still the same I'm a commissioner we need it yeah and I uh your chair of the planning subcommittee yes so I would be happy to come and meet with your committee on issues that come from the planning board
to you great that'd be great thank you become best friends you guys have to close your meeting okay you have to you need to yeah motion to adjourn mov second any discussion in favor thank you thanks
thanks playing board and CPC and Center Town District committee memb you guys wear a lot of hats I like oh yeah for I I gotta eat something discussion all those in favor please say
I any oppos we are to licensing matters we have the approval of a one-day liquor license for the Masonic temple a motion I make a motion to approve liquor license for Masonic temple of slung Meadow 43 Chester Street on February
28th 25 from 5: to 11: p.m. for an East Long medal High School lacrosse fundraiser second motion's been made second any further discussion yes um Jeanie what is this fundraiser are they doing it's High School lacrosse or
something well I understand I mean that's who's putting it on what's the fundraiser is it a dinner I don't know it doesn't stand the application can find out can we find out sure I would love well it would have been nice to put it out there and say hey this a dinner
as a fundraiser I'm assuming that's what it was but it doesn't say any of it I'm like oh cross and alcohol being served than that I'm good to go any other discussion I saying none all those
in favor please say I any opposed motion passes next under financial matters we have approv the appropriation from water retained earnings for the water meter modules I make a motion to appropriate from water retained earnings
$139,800 195 to fund project 34211 water meter modules I'll second's been made in seconded any further discussion see none all those in favor please say I I any opposed passes thank
you have approval of our January 28th minutes motion to approve the January 28 2025 Open Session minute second motions and seconded any further discussion seeing none all those in favor please say I I any opposed
passes under old business we have an update on the proposed bylaw Amendment regarding recreational marijuana so from that we had at our last meeting that we talked about that a few months ago we had asked uh our town
manager to discuss that with our town attorney to see what the proper procedure is for moving forward with that uh because if you recall previously the voters of Islam at The Ballot Box to enact that prohibition that state
law allowed us to there was a question as to whether the council could just do that on its own just as a normal law change procedure whether we also had to go back to The Ballot Box ask as the voters to decide on that question and
after discussing that with the town attorney Jesse he had concurred that Islam would need voter approval via a ballot question in order to adopt any change to that proposed bylaw but wanted to remove the prohibition on that uh
given that I mean it's up to the Council on how we want to proceed my thought is unless anyone is passionate in suggesting making a motion to propose a ballot question language that this should follow the charters process for a
citizen's petition petition I agree so I agree with that but through the chair sure I don't at least I personally was never going to limit this to only one um individual in town and our attorney
basically said that if we allowed at least 20% of what we have for licenses then it may not fall under this but I still whether we allow three whether we allow five I still think it's the voters that have to make the
decision and if the applicant wanted to go forwards with starting that process and trying to get that done I have no issue with that but um and through the child just know not only did the town overwhelmingly reject um having
marijuana shops in the town but we also voted a year prior to that against the legalization of it of marijuana obviously that's maybe changed in public opinion in the town has changed but I think it it would be a very good idea to at least see what the voters if the
voters want to go in a different direction you know that's what vo decide to do but I think it should completely rest with them and then we sort of follow what the voters want now I know the petitioner is here I don't know if you have any further comments or anything you want to say
okay discuss this public opinion we're starting to follow the right ways follow follow your rules hi we're Jeffrey and christina6 Wood Drive thank you thank you thanks for hanging tight guys yeah everything about it except for
where we're actually going with it same after um I think we knew last coming up that it was going to have to come to a v to kind of prepare ourselves and what that would look like would we
have to go petition or is there a vote coming up that that could be added or what your suggestion was see now how the East Long Meadow Community felt know on voting on legalizing you know a dispensary in the town we do know that the last time it was voted was very
early 2016 everyone was really scared on what that would look feel like for their Community I think now there's a lot of uh dispensaries opened up in similar locations seeing that it's successful it can be done nice classy Boutique feel to not you know make our town feel or look
a certain way um and we're very open to you know feedback or information if it gets to that process but really you know happy that you guys took that into consideration looked into it and now for us what would you know further steps into engaging with the community to get
it on a ballot or moving forward great yeah so I think in terms of next steps then the council won't take any further on it but if you look at the East home Rule Charter which is on the town's website there's an ecod link that lists that I think it's
attachment a uh there's a one of the last few pages talks about like different citizen petitions and there's ways to petition the council to do something but I think in your case you would have to have a ballot question I think you're right that requires a certain of signatures from registered
voters in to get a question on the next town election ballot there is a cut off period um and I don't recall Genie if you know when that would be in terms of when that would have to be submitted to make it on our June 2025 ballot otherwise before the L
should have to be in in place and reviewed we and when would that ballot willot be coming it's uh you June sorry it's article article eight of the charter lays it out you better get [Laughter]
started we yeah so back to see me a big why everyone I would just suggest and sorry about this Genie but you get together with Genie just to go through because when you look at the citizen mechanisms it's confusing and this way here you'll
be in the right process instead of thinking you are and then showing up and we go how you gotta do this so that thank you he's wonderful so I could shoot you guys an email that's what yeah okay
all right good to go thank you guys you very much enjoy the rest of your evening yeah thank yeah we're half done okay then we already talked about our next okay our next one bye
Marilyn is discussion of post Amendment regarding multiple bylaw changes simultaneously so Ralph at our last meeting that we talked about this had put together a draft of language for us to consider and I know at that time I
had mentioned whether it was worth us to consider broadening that not just to this review process but to anything but I've thought about that more and I think it would complicate this process at that time it may still be an interesting idea
but I don't know if now's the right time to consider that so with that being said um I went back through and looked at some of my notes when we did the ecode and our attorney interpreted our language um when we did it to categorize
one subject and he interpreted that to mean that it's not just one item that you could group things together um which may help quite a bit um especially when we're doing zoning and stuff that we can
group a few together in the future okay that clarifies I think we did that when we did the like the site plan review and the parking plan because they were all in the same portion of the zoning bylaws so we were able to group them all together which is a lot better
than hey we're going to change this one word that that's a public hearing this word that that's a public hearing um yeah so then what I had done um I looked at the existing Article 2 Section 2-6 where it
mentioned um the whole process in the charter and I I wasn't sure if your proposed change was just to add that paragraph or if it was to change the existing paragraph that we had so in my Fusion around that I took
the existing paragraph that we had and I redlined it and blue underlined it to show what currently was there in the charter versus what Ralph's proposed changes were if we were to just modify what was already there for simplification purposes but I don't know
if I thought for a ballot question may be easier and easier to understand that we remove the article in its entirety and replace yes um as the ballot question um I I was surprised
when I I saw this and I chuckled because I had this all done well someone just spent a long time but I do appreciate because it allows everyone here to see you know the word changes um it basically is just
saying changing the time frame that once every 10 years is um and once every 10 years hey when we do all of this let's be able to do it all as a whole right and I think Jeanie had caught it when I sent this uh but I was thinking about it more since we talked about it um how we
in your proposed changes we remove like codification or codification process and changed it to just like the word changes um I think that makes sense to me though that we still had codification in one of the places because the there is a definition in the charter
that allows for codification just to like reum and reformat things and I don't think we want to prohibit that in our and it starts it starts the paragraph the codification phrase too so the very line oh yeah like notwithstanding the above
the reviewer saw that later yeah yeah so I think that still allows us to either just do codification or changes or both depending on whatever we have that review process entail every 10 years so I guess with that said it's up
to us if we W to proce so just out of curiosity again the language that I wrote up was that accurate keeping in the codification yeah was there a change to no I think what you had written was good because I
think I'm winning again yeah I well the the red and blue line unless I miss something in translating it I think it captured the different conditions in there awesome at least it made sense to me anyway
so I guess if if that's I think the next thing we need to do is forward it to our town attorney right once Jesse reviews it then you can vote on the language to be placed on the ballot right right and it goes to the AG they have four weeks to
review it and then it would be ready for at least five weeks before the election so we still have time so then I would entertain a motion to refer this to the town attorney for their review [Laughter]
is there any further discussion all those in favor please say I opposed on to the next I think is awesome okay so then under new business we have accepting the appointment of the Deputy
fire chief Christ as the new fire chief if you would like to come forward patience we were testing you passed pass very patient other I was GNA have
to stand in front of big [Laughter] why I don't know if you just want to this is funny it's not on his resume but it's pretty funny I don't know if just for the Public's benefit if you just
want to provide a beef a brief background of yourself and how you got to this point sure um so my name is Chris Feer I'm currently serving as a deputy fire chief in town I've lived in town since 2003 and married into the town my wife's a long resident um I've
been with the fire department for uh 19 years the first eight were the call member and then um the last 11 in the career department and the last two I've served as a deputy Fire Chief and I'm excited to um to take that next step lead this department so so are we
absolutely honored to uh to be a part of it so and Tom is there anything you'd like to and no I mean uh I don't know that I had have enough time to say enough about Chris uh he's pretty much
uh the embodiment uh of a leader and uh somebody that you'd want as a teammate um and I there's not a whole lot more I could say I I I've been gushing over him for a couple weeks waiting for tonight uh so we can have a proper uh but Chris
is uh the right person for the job at the right time and uh I I I can't I'm not I can't be happier that he's joining this team because he's a perfect fit for the fire department for the department
head group for the entire Community um listen I said I said I couldn't say enough and I can't shut up uh no um you won't find anybody that doesn't agree with me appreciate that there were definitely a lot of letters of support
received and I appreciate that as well background and I did also speak with one of the members of the interview committee that Tom had and also had nothing but good things to say especially about the experienced answers that you
provided good news an exciting process it's a win-win for this town we thank you appreciate your dedication absolutely then just for the Public's benefit in terms of this process the charter this is one of the few positions that the council has veto authority over
whereas all other employment decisions are just the sole authority of the Town manager which is why this is before us this evening uh so at this point unless there's any further comments or questions it's up to the council to accept the appointment and wave in
Period so I'd like to make a motion to accept the appointment of Deputy fire chief Christoper beer as the town of East Long Meadow's new fire chief and wave the town council's remaining VTO period second motion's been made in second in is there any further
discussion yes sure no this one um do we do a roll call with maryn not here or yeah we can do a roll call for safety so Jim yes Anna yes I am a yes Marilyn is absent Ralph yes I am a yes and
John great congratulations yes congratulations thank you and I look forward to congratulations thank you for waiting s took so long hope it was can we have a photo with the council
pleas sure you want to stand where Marilyn was oh wow behind the awesome I you I couldn't be happier oh yeah thank
you congratulations thanks for hanging yes back yes we already did The Joint meeting with the planning board so our next item was to appoint the bylaw Review Committee members thank you yeah
thanks so if you're recall our uh December meeting the town uh I had drafted a bylaw Review Committee bylaw that's not confusing that would set up the process that the council would undertake for the
annual or the 10e Rie that the charter mandates for the town to review all Town bylaws including zoning and we passed that so then it was accepting applicants to actually serve on that committee so that we could get started on that uh I only received
two uh people from the public those were attached in the the packet that you saw it was that there weren't as many people interested in that to to apply that said um H second we were able to get a full Committee of the full seven I don't know
if one of them is here uh if there was anyone that was yeah yeah I don't know but the the members of the committee so there will be a full seven we have Timothy Manning who has lived in town for 10 or more years we have Mark
manakis congrats Mark yeah congrats he said he lived in town for five years now and also served previously on the finance committee in wolverham so that was interesting experience we have Rich fero who had served on many y Town
board committee uh Ralph Paige as a town counselor Jim as a town counselor nice Brian Quimby is the town's IT director which will also provide a town employee to give that perspective and then George Kingston as a former planning board
member committee many also many through the chair awesome will we be having someone appointed an employee that will be able to take out of Direction ight lot of Direction
so typically in the past under like the charter review we always had someone do E I did poor girl get it up did the BW if if if there's a possibility of it
because when we get into the zoning and all um there's going to be a lot of information and a lot of work um this is one big book and we got to go through it line by line yeah so again just a I don't know what the answer is but I'm
sure can talk about that yeah great no I think up so just add that Anna congratulations yes I sort of let the department heads know that I you know like there probably be some some input from them so if
however we however you guys decide to get down we'll we'll just make sure we can all schedule some time to I Jamie before the meeting started uh and hopefully we'll be able to coordinate elcat recording it as well so think that
Zoom I think I can get a transcription right I think so yeah right look at and you got quinby in the group so can try it I think zo transcribes these I think you're right
Jamie Jackie is like why am I here job security but that said I'll reach out to all the committee members over the next couple days so we can try to get the next kickoff meeting it'll just be a short one to have introductions try to
set the task of the committee is so we're all on the same page there as far as uh chair though I'll leave that up to the committee to decide how they want to do that if they want to congratulations I saw you did earlier tonight you did this to yourself you got
the good book how you gonna give that away good book around like Moses that's said action items for our next meeting uh not our next meeting but I know we the heroes act and Mark have we're chatting about that
tomorrow yeah and we're on it okay but we can we'll do March also obviously absolutely um I'm sure stuff that I'm missing but I can't think of it off the meeting with
us y'll be meeting at our next meeting to have another joint meeting with us okay I'm sure there's more and I'll that's okay share it when I remember Miss bot ballot language oh Jesse yes
all right okay Mo to adjourn thank you any further discussion all those in favor please say I I any opposed we are adjourned at 926 congratulations I believe