and we're Hill. >> Good evening and welcome to the January 13th, 2026 meeting of the town council. I'll call the meeting to order and ask that we stand for the pledge of allegiance. I pledge >> allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic
for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. I would ask that we take a brief moment of silence to reflect on the events going on both near and abroad. Thank you. In accordance with Mass
General Law, this meeting is being recorded by LCAT. If there's anyone else in the audience recording, if you could identify yourself. >> Seeing none. Oh, >> I'm just trying. I've never taken minutes before, so a little minute after. >> That's perfect. >> Please.
>> So, I do a nice job. >> Yes. Thank you. >> Next is public comments. Is there anyone in the public that wishes to make comments? Okay. I don't see anyone in person or on Zoom. Council comments. Uh, the only
comment that I have this evening is to welcome our new clerk, Jackie. And then of course our new assistant clerk taking our minutes this evening to replace Jackie's uh old seat, Cindy.
All right, >> that was my comment this evening. >> Does anyone else on the council have a comment? >> Okay, seeing none, town manager report. Hi Tom. >> Hello. Good evening all.
Uh, I got a brief one for you tonight. I know we got a big agenda. So, um, happy new year. Uh, it's a little late in the month to keep saying it, but since we haven't seen each other, I'll say it one last time. Uh, as usual, attached to the
report are uh the reports for um construction for the high school and nitorium for the month of December. Uh, I mean, the school progress is, uh, really starting to get down to the fine details. There's tile and paint and, uh,
all these other finishes being installed. It's it's really exciting. And the natiatorum uh, also has seen some real progress and basically uh, completely enclosed at this point. Um, still progressing on time and on budget. Um, and uh, just a reminder, you can get
um, scheduling and progress information on the the website um, eastm.gov/ elhs building project. Um, uh, congratulations to, uh, Kerianne Wel on her promotion to director of
assessing. Uh, Kerianne was Dian's assistant assessor for the past three years and has over 20 years of municipal assessing experience. Uh very excited for Kerianne and everything she's going to bring to that department. So uh
congrats to her. Uh congrats to Jackie. Uh very excited that she gets to sit next to me now. I'm sure she is too. >> Yes. >> Uh and congrats to Cindy as well. Very
happy that you're here. Um uh planning for upcoming FY27 budgets uh obviously well underway. We'll get to more of that in a little while. Uh department heads are crunching their numbers and we'll submit level one
budgets uh at the end of this week. Uh as in past years, the directive was a level service submitt. Um you know, we still have a lot to talk about. Um but we'll move to that level two and in advance of our draft budget
submitt on April 1. Uh obviously there's still a lot of moving parts uh but we'll we'll we'll get to that I'm sure in a little while. Um also attached to this report is the uh FY25 audit uh performed
by Scandlin Associates. Um there's a lot of information in there. Uh that's why we brought Kim uh amongst other reasons and other agenda items. Um >> her discretion
No surprises, nothing to be alarmed about. Um, as usual, our finances are in perfect order. Uh, thanks to the finance department and and the council, as I've said before, I mean, we can have all the policies and, uh, our best practices and
if we don't follow them, we're we're not going to get the results we get. So, um, appreciate everybody staying up task. Um, I also uh uh I haven't done in a while, but I was very happy to send you all an email at 4:30 this evening um
with our draft application for the EPA. Brownsfields was uh posted to the website uh per the application process um uh in advance of our public hearing uh next Tuesday at the planning board uh
which will be here at 6 pm. Um we are uh as part of that application, we're looking for um a lot of attendance from a lot of our stakeholders. We're we're reaching out to our boards and commissions, our community groups, um to
sort of come up and and show support for this application, which is very rigorous, uh very comprehensive, um and very very competitive. So, uh anything we can do as a community to sort of show our support, uh it will go
will go a long way for the process. Again, we'll get to some more of that in a little while. Um, and then, uh, we're bringing back our special guest segment this evening. Uh, it's my pleasure to introduce our new Council on Aging Director, Emily
Constantino. >> Up and say hi. Yay. Yeah. A lot of applause tonight. Energy in here tonight. It >> must be the building we're in. >> It is the building. >> All right. Nice to meet all of you. Thank you for having me here tonight.
Um, I was very happy to hear that we do these in this building because I love being here. Um, so I just started at the COA on December 1st. I'm still very brand new. You would not believe how many new people I've met in the past month and how many new names I've been trying to remember. Um, but my past
month here has been it's been really excellent. Um, I'm not from East Long Meadow. I live in Connecticut. I'm from Connecticut. Um, so I'm still learning. I've been spending the last month listening and learning and um seeing how all the moving parts of the COA um work
together, learning from our wonderful staff, learning from um my predecessor, Aaron, who was the director before me. Um before I came to work here, um I worked in Connecticut. I am a social worker by trade. Um I got my masters
from University of St. Joseph in West Hartford. Um my experience as a social worker is working for both the private sector and for a municipality. Um my entry into the field of social work was working in police social work in the city of Willamantic in eastern
Connecticut. Um starting as a student um we created sort of a statewide model for police social work in Connecticut that is now used by many different schools and many different police departments in the state. So um it was a wonderful job. I did crisis intervention. I did a lot
of collaboration with other um town entities, health department, our town senior center. Um and I really enjoyed working for a town. I really enjoyed having the support of a community around me. Um after I was a police social worker, I worked in hospice as a hospice social worker, which is where I got my
introduction to working with um the older population. Um a lot of my patients, all of my patients had terminal illnesses and a lot of them had memory deficits. Um and so I served as an advocate and as a support system to those p patients and their families. Um
in that role I saw what can happen when our older population does not have social support, does not have the proper resources to thrive and they have unmet needs which is what sort of led me to this position at the COA. Um we have a
very resourcerich center here. Um, we have transportation services, we have a nutrition program, we have fitness programs, we have mental wellness programs, and we have a ton of recreational programs as well. Um, we
help facilitate the SWAT program here in town, which is wonderful. Um, and we have an amazing staff, an amazing, um, system of volunteers who work here. Um, so it's been a month of listening and learning. Um, and I feel a lot of
gratitude that I'm here. This is a wonderful place. Um, I feel very happy that I'm starting kind of at the beginning of the year, so I get to see how the year progresses and how every different month brings different activities and different programs to the COA. Um, we have this month
specifically, we have a concert series that's been happening every Friday here. Um, so feel free to stop by this Friday at 12:45. We have some local artists who have been coming in doing a concert for us and it's honestly been so fun. Um I don't know many other people who have a concert at their work every Friday. Um
but it's been wonderful. Um our staff here and our volunteers are extremely dedicated to making sure that our older people in our community do not feel alone. They feel supported and they feel like all their needs are being met um and they have a
community around them. So I'm very happy to be here. This seems like a wonderful town. I've been very welcomed very warmly. Um, and I hope to be here for a very long time. So, thank you all for your support. Um, lots of really good things happening at the COA. January is
a bit of a slower month, so I hear. Um, we have our concert series. We try to kind of keep it a quieter month because the holidays were a little bit crazy for everyone, but um, when the spring comes around, we have lots of picnics happening, lots of other fun activities. So um any everyone is always welcome. So
please please come by at any chance you can. >> Thank you. >> Great. >> Thank you for the introduction. >> Welcome. >> That's it for me tonight unless you have any questions about anything or >> Ralph
missed me didn't the worst way. Um, just a couple questions with regards to Scandlin and Associates. Um, do we have a multiple year contract with them? Um, is it like a three-year contract or is it um >> We do
>> each year we hire them to do it? Yeah, I think we just entered into three >> third year third year of this contract and we um spoke with them again about another three >> because I know in the past we've talked about possibly bringing in someone else
um and taking a look at it only because the same company's been doing it for 25 years or more >> and the suggestion was always occasionally to get another fresh set of eyes on it so that it doesn't become
just ho, hey, we're always looking at the same thing and they never dig any deeper. Uh, and again, I'm not involved in that aspect of it. I just know this is what we've talked about. And um, >> and like I said, I don't even know if
it's I don't know how many companies out there do this. There's probably two >> there. Well, there there was more last year. Every one of them bought everybody up. So, there is actually only two. >> No. Um >> there we can definitely um go out there
and try and get some quotes. I know that we had a really hard time getting quotes on West trying to get it was hard to get anybody to actually communicate with you, >> but we um we could we're finding that they're a lot higher in costs. We're
finding that even Scanlin is you know they would like to increase their costs by quite a bit. Um we can negotiate with them a little bit. So, but I, you know, I can go out there, >> like I said, I just think sometimes it's just a good idea just occasionally. And I'm not saying, hey, you're just looking
for a better price. I'm saying just to get a different set of eyes sometimes on it. Um, maybe they'll see something that Scanland's missed. Um, maybe maybe there's just nothing to see and >> just when you thought the punch list was done. >> Um, okay.
>> Just a suggestion. >> Okay. >> Thank you. Great. >> Any other comments or questions? Okay, seeing none, we will move to communications, correspondence, and announcements. Uh the only one that I have this evening was the assessment
certification of value for the Dwight Road Maple Street diff. Uh so each year, uh our director of assessing has to prepare this um mostly just as a notice to us. We don't as a council have to take any action, but it does have to be
part of the the budget process. Um, so for fiscal year 2026 with the assessment date of January 1st, 2025, the land location of 305 the Maple Street, parcel ID 6-9- A
with a land area of 5.37 acres, a land value of 1,8,100, a building value of $3,75,000, or a total value of $4,155,100. $00
and this is because 305 Maple Street is included in the diff district but is taxexempt and that was certified by our well soon to be former director of assessing Diane Bishop. That was just more of anformational thing that she had sent us.
Um I don't have any other communications unless anyone else does. Okay, seeing none public hearings we have none. orders of the day, licensing matters. Um, this is more just a kickstart um for the licensing committee.
>> Yes. Um, the short answer there is the uh comparison of area fees is underway. Um, at my request, Jackie uh reached out to clerks in our immediate surrounding towns and a few others with similar
populations to us. And so far, two have gotten back to us. I'm hoping that once the information comes back, it if it comes back in the next week or so, then I can have it ready for the next agenda. If not, definitely for February's
agenda. Great. Perfect. >> That's good. And if it even takes a little longer, we can >> It's It's just a matter of once it all comes back to Jackie, then I'll aggregate the the data and put it in a spreadsheet for everyone. >> Perfect. >> Thank you, Kathy.
>> You're welcome. >> Okay. Next, under financial matters, our first topic is the joint meeting with the town council and school committee per the charter, article 6, section one, annual budget process. Come on up. Good evening everybody. Come on up.
Step right up. >> Hey Pam. >> Hi. >> Long time no see. >> I know. Huh? >> Yesterday this morning >> I saw you on the internet. >> That's true. >> Yeah, I know. Well, they always >> hard
for us to get together. >> Travel as a team. >> If you need a moment to open the meeting, >> I will thank you uh President O'Shea. First of all, happy uh finance season. Happy started tonight. Um it is every year it
happens annually. Um would like to open the meeting of the school committee at 6:15. Call the meeting to order. Uh with me tonight, Greg Thompson, chairman of the school committee, Pam Blair, our assistant superintendent for business, Heather Brown, our assistant superintendent for curriculum
instruction and assessment, Carrie Jarzapski, um Antella Rashill Manzy, William Strer, and our superintendent, as you all know, of 16 years. This is our last budget season together, and so I would like to recognize his years of
service, uh Superintendent Gordon Smith. expect that. But thank you. >> That's it. That's the whole party for you. >> You all recognize my years of service. >> Higher percentages. >> And if I if I could just acknowledge President O'Shea, uh uh Council Richards
and her years of service, as I understand, this is her last year with us all. So, I just want to recognize the many years we've got to work together. So, thank you, Marilyn, for all your time and effort and energy. >> Yeah. With that, I we are open. So, thank you, Mr. President.
>> Thank you to you all for being here this evening. Um, it's always a fun start to the budget process this time of year. Um, but at this point, I'll turn it over to Tom to give us the town overview of >> Sure. >> financial state. >> Uh, thank you.
Um, at the risk of sort of sounding like a broken record, I think uh we've had some conversations already that this this year looks very similar to last year in terms of uh where we stand uh with the budget uh in
particular the operating budget. um you know when we we have a a a very large increase in health insurance again uh we we haven't nailed down that number yet but uh early conversations at scanic
are are upwards of 15% uh which um is a killer uh but we we've sort of been conservatively budgeting that line item to sort of prepare for such an base.
Um, retirement's up uh almost 9%. Um, and we have some other costs that are going to be in the budget this year that weren't last year. Uh, i.e., uh, over $100,000 policy for insurance for
the new high school. Uh, you know, in addition to our whatever increases we have on the rest of our assets. um and uh a rather large increase to the electric bill at the new high school. Uh considering is a full fully electric
building. Uh we're hoping and we have to see how the timeline works, but uh obviously the building uh is set for for PV uh solar. Um, so we're hoping that's going to offset some of that increase uh as well as some rebates from uh from the
grid uh which is pretty substantial 1.3 uh I think the timeline of which is substantial completion which won't be till July 26th I July of 26 which is the first payment of a million and then um
the rest after the project's completed. Um, you know, I think we're we're we're sort of we're sort of in that space where when we when we add our 2 1/2 uh% um where if we don't want to cut into
our levy, which was our sort of goal last year to to sort of save that as much of that cushion as we could and not tax the community all the way to the levy limit. um we're we're going to be left with somewhere around $1.5 million to spread across uh the whole operation.
Uh which again uh was was a difficult task to to complete last year. Um you know, we we're we're we're in January and I think we said it last year. We're still estimating all these numbers. Uh we don't have anything sort of concrete
yet, but um you know, we're going to it it seems like this year and unless something major changes at the state level and uh funding levels change that um with our with our increase in and some of the bigger ones,
the the health insurance and the and the retirement, we're going to be we're going to be living around 2 and a half 3% increase in operation at acts uh across the board uh with with those other increases factored in. Um again, we
don't we won't know what what the full impact of the level one level service budget looks like, but again, we've had we've had some internal conversations already. Gordon and Pam and Kim and I met back in October or September to sort
of go over the fact that, you know, it kind of is looking like the same scenario that we had last year where we got to um we just have to be really efficient with with how we spend that increase in money this year. Um that
that that's the long and the short of it. We we did get a little bit of good news um from Diane right before she left. That was nice of her. Uh we had a little bit more uh growth uh last year
uh to the tune of $250,000 and then an additional uh amended growth from FY 24. What FY are we in? >> Uh the one before this one. Uh yeah. Uh of another4 million. So uh when we
started last year's budget, we were at 1.6 six at the for excess levy. We're now at 1.9. Um, and when we did the budget last year, we we planned on bringing that cutting into some of that excess levy and putting it down at 1.3.
So, we're back to 1.9, which is which is pretty incredible. Um, and again, so that there there's a little bit of maneuverability there. And again, I we we had this sort of conversation about the the excess levy last year about um
you know, not taxing the community to the full limit. Um and and sort of keeping that money in there as sort of a buffer uh for for any sort of unknown budgeting snafoos that could arise. But
um again, still really early. I think there's a lot of things that can move. Uh I think there's a lot of options that we're talking about in terms of uh how this budget is built and uh how some
things can move, but I think uh some of our unknowns right now uh are that those additional operating costs with the with the new building. Um we we've asked Scansa um and the design team to sort of give
us an idea of what those added costs are going to look like. so that we can properly budget for them. Um I think Ben said, excuse me, Ben Murphy from Scansa said last time that uh most of their projects people are finding out these operational costs a year later or two years later.
So it seems like they have a lot of knowledge about what are those things that people are forgetting. So we're we're trying to get that comprehensive list together so that we don't miss anything. Um, and again, we really need to keep our services at the level we're
at. The we we offer a lot of services um that a lot of communities don't and a lot of great service. Uh, and that's school and that's DPW and police and fire and COA and all all of it. And so we really need to find a way to um
again be efficient, but this whole new growth conversation that was a nice surprise is is a goal that we should continue to have to allow our community to grow in a way that also helps our budget grow. Um
so that that's about it. I don't know if anybody has any other questions about where we stand. Like I said, there's a lot of movement between now and April 1, uh, and and beyond. Um, and a lot of those questions will get answered along the way, but uh,
again, um, sort of status quo from the conversation we had when we were here last year. >> Great. >> Is there anything? >> Uh, yeah, certainly want to acknowledge our working relationship with the town manager is going uh, fantastic in on our
part. uh working collaboratively on the new school which is uh as you all have seen is moving along fantastically. Uh it is on time and it is beautiful. It will be an asset to this community and we're hopeful that uh folks will get in and get a chance to take a look at it.
We're also uh hopeful to work uh with the recreation department and get that pool accessible to the community as soon as it's up and online because the school only uses it so much. So we will have designated parking and it will be blocked off from the uh school. So, we're hoping to use that pool as we said
we would as a community based uh uh program for the whole for the whole town. We are also underway on those two additional classrooms at Mount View School. Those are framed and starting to get closed in. We're hoping to get those uh online by the end of the school year or at least by next school year. So,
that project will finally be complete and then we will have all the building space we are going to have for a while. We will be opening the new building as you all know uh next fall in August. It will take an additional year to knock down >> knock down what? >> That's our plan. >> Knock down the right side of the
building. So the day we open from the auditorium left will be knocked down and that will be all the new um pavement and new driveway area. But it'll take an additional year to knock from the right side over and finish off all the fields on that. So that'll be FR 2027. Hard to
say that. Um but again going uh great. Just a recap a recap on last year. As you're all aware, we are 20 uh full-time positions down from last year to this year. Uh last year in the FY25 budget, we had funded 474.6
positions. Last year, the FY26 or this year, I should say, FY26 budget, we were at 454.6 positions. So, we have held that um the decrease in 20 uh FTEEs as we discussed uh on the last round. We did use $350,000 from the school choice
account as we discussed. So that is down um less and then can be taken in a year. So uh we won't have that much again to use next year, but there is a balance in that and we're hopeful that we can supplement part of the operating budget again with that because we do have that opportunity and it is a source of income
for us. Um as Tom mentioned, the photovotayics will we're hoping to offset substantially the increase in electrical. The estimates now are $250,000 increase in electricity, which is a lot. I think that may be conservative, but we won't know until the first year. So, we'll have a good
year to run through it. The architects and the builders tell us it's going to be about an additional year before we get the uh solar panels online. So, we'll see that increase for one year, then we'll realize the the um savings from the solar panels the second year. So, this is like a two-year process. So, we're hopeful that we're able to work
that substantial increase in the budget, but we knew that going into this that um as an electric building, it would be more expensive even though it's much more uh better insulated than the the prior building. Um other than that, we have a lot of things going on at the schools. The kids are doing great and uh
the staff uh is certainly uh very useful and helpful uh as we move forward as a district. So, that's all I have unless anyone else has any other point. So, I will throw it back to you, Connor. Thank you. >> Thank you, Greg. I think from a council
perspective, I think we're still evaluating some priorities as the budget process uh moves along, but I think we definitely have an an interest in keeping things at the services that we're offering and maintaining the standards that we have as a community.
um in terms of like free cash for example, I think there's a lot of opportunities there, but I mean I know one that residents are often talking about are roads. So I think we're looking at what we might be able to do in the next year um to progress on some of those objectives. But unless anyone
has anything else, I think it's kind of a a good start, but more to come of course as the numbers firm up. actually through the chair. S >> just curious on the electric the 250,000 that we were guesstimating uh as an
increase is that after the offset of the gas cuz you guys are heating by gas now. So obviously we're going to save cuz we're not going to be. So >> yeah. So our current bills electric and gas are about 250,000. So it will double the bill.
>> Yeah. >> Per se. But we're looking to offset a quarter of the total bill. >> Okay. >> Being us with a quarter increase. trying to get it in. >> We're hopeful, but again, I think that'll be um worst case. I'm hoping. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> No, I thought you includes the gas bill is going up 250 and then I was saying,
well, I'm thinking, well, maybe 90,000 of that is gas and it will be savings. So, >> no, I thought Yeah, it's the delta of the usage. Right. >> Right. The two 250 is existing with including gas. An additional 250 all electric. The only thing that we do have
gas will be the heater for the pool. That's the only gas we have on site. And again, this is part of that. We're we were waiting for confirmation from the design team that that the bull was involved in that calculation also. Um and so again, we we'll know more, but
estimate >> we've been talking about hope hopefully that rebate money. Oh, there he is. Sorry. >> That the that rebate money that we're getting from grid can can hopefully help offset that until the PV comes online.
Um, >> I mean, we knew >> these costs were coming. So, >> the the building's air conditioned, which is different than the existing two, so that's clearly some additional cost. >> Yep. >> Who's in charge of the thermostat? Me. >> Probably.
>> When are you remotely? >> Ryan do it from home. >> Yeah, Ryan. Yeah. >> Just I'm curious. Um this year I mean have you do you see any hiccups coming
in the next 6 months? Um is >> we're in a very different position this year than we were last year I'm glad to say because we had to increase um many of the operating budget lines for special ed. We talked about that contracted services. What gets very challenging is that we are down 20
positions. That's that's a real that's a real number. And you know when you have 80% of your budget um which is normal for a school department. We're not any different than any other district. They're all >> departments are 80 departments cuz we're in a service industry. So yeah, 80% is
salaries. So when you have contracts that are negotiated and they're at, you know, 3% and if we only get a 2 and a half% and then again, unit A, I'm just going to remind you that the way that that works about 73% of our unit A are on a top step, which means they truly
get whatever the percentage is. And next year it's actually 2.75. Did I get that right, Gordon? 2.75 next year. This year um was 3%. It was a 33 275. But that 27% that moves down a step and then also
gets the the uh increase really is more like a 6 to 7%. It kind of depends. It fluctuates a little bit. So that has to be taken into consideration. And and then all of those items which we didn't list off um we realize we're one department within the town. um and that
that this is a team and that we need to um you know shave our budget as as well and work together. But what I do worry about is trying to get all of those things back into the budget. We we cut $80,000 in curriculum renewal. We are using um $450,000
of school choice which just as a reminder for many years we didn't have school choice and the school department in 201 18 decided to >> 2018 2019. okay uh to start school choice again just a little at a time and um we look at our enrollment and uh make
decisions about where maybe we have those slots and it's just you know 5 10 15 slots and and it's looked at at every year. So we were lucky that we had built that revenue up that we had that we're not going to have that same revenue for next year. So what will we have? I'm I'm
projecting um I think it's like 283,000 um as a base amount because for school choice you get $5,000 per student. There is a special ed component on top of that. So depending and and you don't know that until at the end of the year when you know when all the reports are
done. Um so it will be higher which is why I'm conservative and comfortable saying 283,000. But again, do we want to use every single penny? because that's supposed to be also we're trying to um work on on special ed programs that we've talked about and making little changes and
those changes take time and they take some money. So again, it's it's a balancing act. Um trying to get these things back into the operating budget. Trying to think what else we cut. Uh we had twous, a memorandum of understanding with the ELA, education
association. Um one was to for this current year, um to stop the professional development that um is written into the contract for individual um staff that can go and and I believe it was $650. and that saved the district about $126,500.
That's that's part of this whole strategy and how we didn't have to lay off 28 positions and you know we we did this kind of thing. The otherou was for um our counselors in the unit A contract um they work an additional 10 days over the unit A. The other teachers u we cut
them back to 5 days. That didn't go over so well because the workload is still there and they still got to get it done. So, all these things we're going to have to if we end up in the same place, we're going to have to revisit again on on what do we have to do? Um, I don't know if I missed anything. Do
>> you mind if I >> Yeah. No. Okay. The curriculum renewal. Is that where you're going to go? >> Yeah. I was uh I was just going to say um I was actually going to um echo what Mr. Christensen said. You know, that we're always um we work really well together and also Mr. Thompson said it.
Uh we're we we're very collaborative and at this point hopeful because we know it's still a few more weeks until we get the governor's budget. Uh and that really then starts to set some of the numbers in a a little bit
clearer um display for all of us. Um and it's hard to know where chapter 70 is going to go. The last few years we've been looking at 1.7 or excuse me 1.2 to uh 1 um 4% >> percent and um
>> so but we're always hopeful because um at the end of the year if you remember when we were going through this budget process um the joint ways and means did increase the amount of chapter 70 um
that long metal received and so that was something that we had talked about with the financial oversight committee 185,100. Yeah. 30 to 60. >> Some of the things that uh are not in control of right now either the
governor, the legislature, or definitely the East Long Public Schools are the increases in transportation. And and so that doesn't get talked about probably enough. We talk about special education. We talk about um out of
district tuition. One of the things I would like to say is um some of the things that we've been doing, we've actually decreased the number of students out of district and we've decreased the amount that we expect to spend this year on out of district tuition. Um, so we're excited about
that. And but when you look at transportation costs from FY24 to FY25, transportation as a whole, that's regular transportation and special ed transportation went up 9.54%.
Transportation between FY25 to FY26 went up 5.45%. So when you're looking at increases either from chapter 70 or from the town, and I'm not saying that the town could have done more, we're just not keeping
up. And so that's that's the where the real creativity and collaboration um some of the things that we've talked about with Mr. Christensen uh last year and the start of this year, that's what's needed, synergy.
>> Yeah. I think those conversations at the state level will continue. This is uh this is a problem that's plaguing every community and every school district in the Commonwealth. Um and there's been a
lot of advocacy from MMA. I I gave you guys that uh paper in October. Um you know, there there there's some noise here. um they're just they're not it's like us trying to keep up right with our
four or five% budget increase with a prop two and a half. I mean, you don't have to be a ma mathematician to figure out that that's not going to work out. Um and the state sort of needs to start funding these things at at a at a more appropriate level. So, we'll see where
those conversations go. I'm sure we'll have another few roundts uh with other communities um >> or auction furniture so it might have to be a >> Yeah. >> Uh I'm going to miss your comic relief. >> The only other thing I just want to
mention and maybe Miss Brown is the best one to She's in and out of the classroom so much is that the student has changed this and we've talked about this, right? Co changed the students and and it still is evolving. Um we were just talking about that earlier today, Heather. Right. >> Yeah. I mean there's a lot more needs
for students and therefore the staff and the resources to support all students. Of course, our goal is to make sure all students are getting what they need to thrive. There's also extra demands from the state that we u purchase highquality instructional materials and so that
requires a a year-to-year um increase in terms of what we're p purchasing. So there's a lot of different things that come into place. Um but yeah, like you said, then the the needs of our our kids have really increased um because of the various there's so many factors, right?
Um and so trying to keep up with that as well to make sure that everyone's getting what they need by law. Um it does it costs money. >> And just to add to that, when Mrs. Brown is discussing students and um sort of a
different set of needs, that's all students. >> Yeah. That's not just special education students. Students >> really even before co we were recognizing that students that are who are currently in front of us do not learn the same way say students five
years prior to co 10 years prior to co they they learn differently. Um co certainly exacerbated that more but we were seeing those changes in you know the late 201s if you will. Um, and so that requires professional development
of staff because we do, as Mrs. Blair said, um, have 73% of our staff on that top step, which means we have a veteran staff. And so they were trained, uh, in their, um, training programs
a few years ago. I won't say how many. So, you do need to stay with consistent professional development. So when you're cutting back on that, you're also then putting ourselves into a really challenging situation. Okay, how do we
get our staff the skill development that they need to continue to produce at a high level with students? >> And then we have AI, which is a whole new chapter here that we're all >> teach them not to rely on AI or how to best use the tool. >> Right. Yes.
>> There's a lot better. Sorry. >> Lot happening. Y this is Oh, go ahead. >> I just have a quick question. So last year, if I'm remembering correctly, which I might not be, but was the out of placement district one of the bigger ticket items that was kind of so and
Gordon, you had said that we were able to keep four kids in district that instead of placing them out, >> right? That's it was actually more um looking at and making sure that we have plans for in annual reviews. Do all
students who are out of district need to stay out of district? Okay. >> Been more success there than we necessarily had success in terms of students who are presenting different needs and we were maybe not able to handle those needs in district. It was
more the reverse. >> Okay. Oh, excellent. Okay. And I have done a little research the um I look at all my funding sources. So the operating budget as well as IDEIDA special ed IDEIDA grant as well as special ed circuit breaker revolving account to get
this information. But when FY24 for out of district tuitions it was $2.6 million in FY25 which was last year it went up to $4 million. Remember that >> huge right? So this year right now I'm seeing it if nothing were to change
which is no guarantee just saying 3.7 million. So there we're seeing a savings. So that's 6.9%. So you know yay >> it's working. We're we're trying and and and making changes and and we're seeing progress. So this is all good. >> It's nice to see an a line item go down
instead of >> but in doing that though it's important that we try to keep as much staff as we can. Obviously, as you can imagine, bringing more students back every step. Yeah. So, >> great. >> Well, unless anyone has anything else, I
think this is a good kickoff to the process, but once the department budgets are submitted this Friday, we'll have a better idea of where things are looking from the town perspective, and then I'm sure we'll be discussing again as the the months progress.
>> Great. to be continued. >> Yeah, to be continued. >> Well, certainly thank you for having us tonight. Uh just wanted to invite you all. We have interviews for our superintendent. Uh uh Thursday, the two candidates will be here at 5 and 6:30 at Mount View School. So, you're all invited or will also be on YouTube. Uh
Jamie will put it up on the uh YouTube uh page as well. Um but yes, thank you uh for uh having us. And uh here we go. >> Thank you for coming. And if you'd like to uh if you'd like to come to the planning board um next Tuesday night to support our application
>> at the Carlin building. Yeah. >> Talking about. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Um the more the Mary I talked to some of the PTO and uh they'll have some representatives, but if if we could have some representatives from the district also, that'd be great. >> Okay. And uh Jackie, >> sorry to cut you off. Now are available
when? >> January 30th. >> January 30th. Okay. Great. >> Excellent. Here we go again. ready again. >> Okay. Uh I would take a motion to close the meeting, please. >> Motion made by William. >> Second. >> Second by Antell. Any other discussion?
All in favor say I. >> I. Those opposed, n. Thank you. We uh are >> they don't slide. They don't slide. We need to update that area a little bit. This is okay. >> Our next permanent meeting room will
have >> Yeah. Yes. >> Hi. >> Next under financial matters, we have our quarterly financial report. >> Couldn't see outside there. >> Made us nervous.
>> Yeah. Seriously. I did. I couldn't see. I'm at a Yeah. Weird angle here. Uh, sorry, sir. Thank you. Did you uh say the quarter finances? >> Yes. In the commotion we are to the
quarterly financial report. >> So um again uh you have all the uh so reports from the second quarter. The only one that is out of line still is the um overtime budget
uh for fire. um that was uh out of whack after the first quarter and remains out of whack. We've had uh we had two um of our members uh out on injured on duty >> um unfortunately
um and though obviously those shifts are filled with with other members uh in on overtime. So, um, which, as you can imagine, if you're working 24-hour shifts, that sort of leads to some burnout when you're grabbing extra
shifts, and that just leads to more overtime. So, uh, we're we're we're trying to work on on that internally, um, I've had a few conversations with, uh, both the chief and the deputy, um, and Audra really about, um, you know,
how we can manage the staff over there a little bit. and um you know what changes if any we need to make um it's it's one of those it's one of those things we don't budget for uh when we talk about
the whatif scenario. Um so I'm hoping uh that comes back a little more in line. Um I've sort of gave chief the directive also um to not sort of spend any of his operational budget that is not absolutely necessary. So that um if we
have to make some sort of transfer at the end of the year to to make up for that um then we'll have hopefully some extra funding for that. But um and and they got $1,000 from Bay Path. So um really
>> uh you know uh Kim did a a a nice little report here and she's here. I mean I I I don't know if you have any questions on that but um obviously our our reserves are um in great shape. No, you're all set. >> I just looked it wrong. >> Oh.
Um, again, the the the excess levy capacity uh we got a nice uh sort of little surprise there um with the amended growth from the prior year. Um
bond rating good, the audit was good. Um you know, most of our most of our budgets are right in line where they should be. I had a nice conversation with Connor last month about uh we were trying to figure out is there a better way to uh sort of communicate the
information in the reports. Uh you know I think we've had the conversation already like oh why is this budget already 99.9% spent you know and I think we all know now that they've just encumbered and um the whole year has been paid for already. But >> maybe that's not always the case. And so
is there a way to sort of highlight some of these things that that may, you know, set off a red flag or or draw your attention to something? So, um, we're we're going to sort of have some conversations about, you know, what what can Munis do without too much extra work
on the on the finance team to sort of make these I I'll say reports a little more readable, even if you forgot your glasses. Um, so >> I just realized I can increase the size of >> marvelous. >> Lucky for you.
Um but yeah uh there there was quite a bit of um financial information uh both in the manager's report and um I asked him to come obviously because the school committee was here for the for the joint meeting but also because there there is
a lot of information here and I assumed there would be some questions uh that obviously she is uh probably more versed in answering. So if if anyone has any questions um we are happy to answer
them. >> I would start by saying well first thank you Kim for putting together the the report in addition to like the munice detail printouts. It's nice to see see the summary version of where everything stands. Um, but the only question I had
reading through all of it, um, we have the, um, pull it over the capital projects list that kind of goes back for quite some time. Do these stay like on this report even
if the project has been complete or did they drop off at some point? >> They will stay on it for the fiscal year that they were completed in. just because there'll be expenses in the current year and they just haven't closed out yet. So
yeah, they're going to stay there. They'll show they won't show up. And then I think you had said last budget cycle when we were talking about it that you changed the account numbers for like new projects going forward. Is it the second two digits that indicate like the year? So when it's like 3426,
is that saying like that was fiscal year 26? Okay, sense. And then we don't need the detail now, but maybe at a future time we could kind of go through cuz they're now that we're on two pages of capital projects, it
would be interesting to see what the status on some of them are. Like some of them we haven't even started yet, like the um it uh I think it was either building automation, >> it was building automation, >> something like that. Yeah.
because to my recollection that was the last one to fall off the list >> and so uh I just gave Mr. Quimby the authorization because they were like no it's still on the capital list. >> Oh okay. >> Um so that was my fault. So he's got that underway right now. >> Gotcha.
>> Yeah. So in terms of the capital institute um that we just recently started looking at again because it kind of twice a year >> and as we were looking at it and Olga sent those amounts out to people. Ryan was like we can remove this one. It doesn't exist. So there was just
miscommunication there. So that's how we realized that that one was still out there. So there probably will be some falling off of here shortly. >> Okay. >> Um that we will be able to, you know, kick back if they don't meet the rest of the funds. So, we're in the process of doing that right now. >> Perfect. Then you're already ahead of
me. >> Would that would that be a um So, that's another sort of specific you're going to get more information from us on like a sort of a summary report than you would at from Amunis like where's the project stand like
progress wise. >> Yeah, that might be nice. Okay. Hey, >> most of the departments I think are are like I remember when we were in DPW, we had all our list and sort of a progress where that was an expected finish date or something like that. Is that uh from a capital standpoint? Would that sort of
help answer more questions? Maybe we do that. >> I think that would be a good idea. >> Second and fourth quarter or something. >> Yeah, that would be helpful for like the next quarter and then that would help us going into the next budget cycle to kind of see where everything stands. >> All right. and they think it's going to be done.
>> We have an Excel spreadsheet version that has notes on it and everything. It's a little bit wordy, so maybe we'll >> wordy that down a little bit so it's more uh readable for you. >> Yeah, that's a great idea. >> Conor, I just have a question. When you
were just mentioning like 3426 is the date on the capital. Is that the date it started? >> I think that was the fiscal year that we approved it for. >> That it was >> so it would have been approved on the fiscal 26,
>> right? So we voted on it in 25 for the FY26. >> Okay. >> And that's only the last few because like >> this one wasn't done in 1952. >> No, we're good there. And again, without my glasses, I'm like, you know, maybe I just won't say
anything. >> We just started doing that. >> I do like that idea, though, because it does help see. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> At a glance when we did something. >> And that's exactly like I said, I was looking at the a few of them and I'm like, maybe I just I just put on good
glasses and look again. And if not, I'll I'll answer the questions or call them. >> Yeah. or somehow we jumped ahead of oursel with 2037. You know, >> I I do have a couple questions actually. The first is for Tom. Um as far as the
departments go, um how do we stand on um the number of employees? Are we missing any for like the DPW, police, uh fire? Um you know, do they have open positions that we're looking to fill? No, we just
talked about fire. Obviously, two are out. Um, but do they have a full contingency? So, fire does we just had um we were just at the firefighter graduation. So, we have a new uh new firefighter on board. Um,
police has just filled uh two openings. uh one by Tim Daly's retirement and one um the expected promotion of a patrolman to uh Dan Bruno's vacated sergeant spot.
>> Um and DPW um we still don't have a plumber. Uh and actually Bruce has Bruce was out uh for for most of the last uh month or month and a half. Um, we were just talking
about that this morning about um, you know, we're right right now we're carrying a plumbers's position and contracted services and all we do is contracted services. So maybe this is the year that we say it's just not likely that we're going to fill the
spot. Anybody that can do this work can get double at least somewhere else. and maybe it's time to not fund that position andor turn it into another building facilities repair person so we
can maybe get more more work done. Um, other than that, uh, you know, aside from our, you know, musical chairs in a couple departments, uh, you know, pretty much everybody's where
they're at. And, and I don't see any way that we, unless we really have to for uh, the high school or the pool, I don't I don't see how we're adding new positions this year either. >> Yeah, I wasn't looking at adding. I was just wondering if there's any vacancies.
>> Okay. And >> uh you mean for for the budget? >> Well, exactly. Like the DPW I know >> for the longest time they're looking for skilled workers and stuff and there's just there was none out there. >> Yeah. >> Um
>> I I I do think that there's a couple uh they've had a little bit of a you know, somebody worked for three weeks and then I think there's a couple openings in the laborer spots and the plumber. Um other than that um we're we're pretty pretty
full. >> Yeah. And as you just mentioned, the only two were just the back filling like for the assessors, the administrative assistant and clerk-wise, the administrative clerk. >> Yeah. And those and those positions are are now posted, right?
>> Um and so hopefully we'll have those all >> as of this morning at 9:53. Yeah. So, um, yeah. Anything else, Ralph? >> Oh, there there's plenty. I just didn't want to jump in. CPC, who would like to talk about it? Um, her
Heritage uh park. We've spent $20 and something thousands so far. >> What is 200 and something thousand gotten us to date? So, we are uh on the conservation commission agenda tomorrow
night >> following the I'm going to get it wrong. Meepa >> uh the state regulatory for Yeah. >> Uh once that any work that the conservation requires in the plans that's it then the
rest of that balance is going back to CPC. >> So we have If I could read it, we have X amount encumbered. >> Yep. >> And the encumbered was that for um >> the contract with Birkshare Design.
>> Contract with Burkshare Design. >> Correct. >> So we have uh full design engineered plans for Heritage Park. >> Uh about to be when the con conservation commission approves them. >> Okay. So once those are done and approved, is there any chance we can see
what we've >> Absolutely. 200,000 more on >> Yep. >> Um, >> absolutely. >> Uh, Brown Farm demo. >> Um, I know we took down that whole section of the building and all. It's all gone. It's all cleaned up. >> Am I assuming that the last little bits
are probably just need to be turned back now? >> Yep. >> Um, so that that project's completed. What about Chestnut Street? So that >> we did a delineation on it. >> Yeah. >> Was the 46,000 just for the delineation
>> that was for the whole feasibility. So uh whatever is left uh we're not spending we're not spending any more money. So that contract what basically what he found out was the whole site was right. So that project is
is done and the rest of that will that contract is sort of uh null and void and we'll go back. We can't we can't we can't do anything by way of sports fields there. >> Exactly. >> So there there may be another opportunity for something. Although the
wetland creep was a lot more than I think anybody anticipated. Uh there's not a whole lot of upland at all on that site. >> Maybe a little walking trail through it for the neighbor. >> Well, the again there certainly >> it's not already there. There would
certainly be an opportunity for a passive recreation type of use on that site. >> And I'm not sure if that property actually connects to the conservation land. >> It's close. I I think uh it it goes all
the way down to the easement, right? The the overhead wire uh the overhead power line ement >> and then I think there's a small section in that uh >> I'm trying to >> the homeowner on Prospect Street owns. And the only reason I'm bringing it up is I'm just thinking of access into the
conservation land because occasionally you'll see people park on Summers Road um to try and walk down and in or they'll go up and into >> um the the facility on Chestnut Street um the private facility and park in
their parking lot and and walk through their property to get to the back. And I figure if we can't use it for fields, if it's accessible at all, maybe that's something you can do. Three little spots in the front out of gravel to let them access it.
>> So Rob and Alex are working on uh a trail map, a full town trail map. And so this is something that uh when when we sort of get that together, maybe that's something that hooks into something that that maybe already exists too. Um, so,
>> um, budget-wise, can do you see anything else that really jumped out? I mean, I went through the numbers and nothing really, >> you know, I mean, >> snow and ice is we're going to be a big deficit this year on snow and ice. Um, I
what are we 55,000 right now or something deficit? Um, we're going to be up I'm going to be guessing 250 to 300,000. That's that's my guess. >> Yeah. Um, so we're going to need that. I mean, um,
but that's normal, I'm assuming, is always to have a deficit. The last eight years has been pretty amazing. >> December, >> we did more in December than we did the last two years. So, >> Yeah. Right. >> Yep. And it's not getting cheaper.
>> No. And every year that gets taken care of at the end of the year. um with transfers. Typically there's money in health insurance and there will be again this year where we can you know transfer funds over from there once we start seeing these increases that they keep promising us you know Scantic Valley
they you know they're talking about 15% 18% increases like if those do come to fruition and they stop using their reserves like at that point then you know there's other options for snow and ice where if you don't have the money to be transferred from other line items you can just raise it on the tax rate in the
following year, which is what a lot of people typically do. But at this point, and probably for the next couple years, I don't see us having any issues transferring it from other departments. >> And other than the overtime budget, I mean, I don't know about you guys, I didn't notice anything really out of
line. >> No, me neither. >> No. With the general fund departments, there's there's not typically any big surprises other than overtime. So, >> because 80% of them are the full-time salary. So, right. I mean, there's not really nothing gets out of line unless they come ask for something that they
didn't think they needed and we'd have to sort of transfer in money to their budget. >> The other thing, but I don't think it's going to be a huge dollar amount. Um, I think we mentioned before that the lease line item for everybody for their copier contracts, those are going to start going negative. And the way the contract
works, I don't know why they did it this way, but they did it in two separate contracts. We don't get build on a monthly basis. get build on one of them on like say a two-month period that doesn't coincide with the two-month period of the next one. So, we don't have a really good process of saying,
hey, what does the history look like here? So, we're trying to take as much of the year as possible to kind of calculate out what we think it's going to go to for the end of the year and then we'll probably need, you know, maybe like 10k um you know, of a
transfer into those funds to to cover those deficits. We now pay usage on those contracts and we never did before. So there was really nothing to >> this is like gauge on it. >> We we did our best to sort of estimate how much we were going to you it's going to be sort of like how when the high school comes on like we're going to do
our best to get the number right, >> but until you have that historical data that we rely on, we we just threw a number in there. And so >> um I mean I shame everybody in my office that prints, but uh you know we're we're we just don't know what that's going to
look like. Um, we try not to print, but you got to print. >> I do my part. I I don't print it. >> Oh my god. >> Um, the last, sorry, um, OPED, um, I believe it's at 34% um, that we're at.
Um, it's actually a lot better than what I've thought. I mean, especially compared to other towns and cities. Um, >> we're number three as of 2021. See, that's that's pretty good. Um, but again, I know with free cash, like I
said, that was always one where like I told you in the past, I thought there was a certain number. If you got the certain percentage, it's almost self-sufficient. You know, you're not funding it 100%, but you're not going backwards on it. And I don't know what the percentage
was. I I can't believe I don't remember. we we've we've been having this conversation uh because we're always looking at uh you know sort of ways to get I'll call creative with the budget and sort of making our money work for us and and we we just have been looking at
our sort of reserve policy and um funding these things where we're we're raising $100,000 to feed OPED every year and it made 1.3 million. So, do we need to do we need to raise that money every year if we're making that when this
because this number is just going to keep going up as long as our investments are going up. So, is there a way to and we we were just sort of reading the law and the OPE account is for current
and future liability. So there's there there's a question out to the our attorney's office and and I think the DLS Oh, he wasn't available today, but um to see what that actually means because to me that means you you can fund some of that liability in the
current year's budget. That's what it looks like to me. And and we have our health insurance line items, but we also have our retirees health insurance line items. And there's uh up until Medicaid eligible 65, anybody that's retired is
still at 7030. And then when you get to 65, you go to 50/50. Uh town town. Yeah, you got me. Um so we we were looking at something like would it make sense to sort of cushion that blow for those employees
that are in between and sort of pick up that delta with with our OPEC account? Sort of making that money work for us, right? We have this reserve account that who knows when we're going to need it or use it, but if we can use it for our current liability. This is a question
we're sort of >> So, I'm assuming we're using OP other postemployment benefit money for the people that have retired as we're paying that portion that doesn't come out of OP. >> It doesn't. So,
>> why? >> Because kind of like >> doesn't account for it. So, for example, like we have a compensated absences fund up until the point that we 100% funded that and it was making enough money every year so that when we do start
paying um if somebody leaves and we owe them vacation time. Now, we can afford to do that with the interest that we're earning on that fund. So, OPED works the same way. Like the whole point is you want to try and reach your liability to the point that it's earning enough
interest every year so that it can pay those liabilities. Our liability is about $2 million for other post employee benefits annually. We don't earn $2 million on the fund. So technically you haven't reached a point where you'd want to pay all of your other post-employment benefits with it. But if we're earning 1
and a half, why couldn't we fund maybe 250,000, which is that delta got >> annually? Because we're going to earn, you know, 1.5, maybe use 250 of that, but then the following year we have a higher balance. We're going to earn a
little bit more and so on and so forth. So the the fund still continues to grow, but you use a portion of what we're earning on the fund to pay those liabilities. >> And I guess that's where my question came in. At what point do we that >> and this is the book that we're now looking at it >> why we're this is why we're looking at
it uh a to find out if my interpretation of current is the current year which it has to be right >> yeah I I would imagine >> I would imagine >> we're just we just want somebody to tell us we're right >> correct >> otherwise this is just >> just a future thing it wouldn't make any
sense right like you have it for a rainy day and it never rains >> that that that's if you can't use it for a current year it wouldn't make any sense so we're just double double checking before uh I go to jail. >> The the other things, you know, the other things to think about. So, and I I
have a whole email put together. I just did not send it to you yet. But the other thing to think about is when you look at the history of that fund, right, when it was very small, we were earning very little in interest. There were a couple years where we had huge losses, 700,000, 500,000. So, you do have to keep that in mind. >> Exactly.
>> That could happen again. hope is that there's enough in the fund that you know we're going to make that up in the in the in the years to come. Um but you know the biggest thing is you want that fund to continue to grow. Don't want to take any more out of it than what you're earning. And at this point because we
haven't reached our um our target, you want to take very little out in comparison to what we're earning. But we are looking at possibly that you know funding that delta >> and at some point those lines intersect
and then it's kind of >> and I guess that was my question. When do those lines intersect? At what at what number do we think they're going to >> guess I could try and calculate that. Oh, >> ask AI. >> I don't trust AI.
>> Thank you. >> Thank you, Ralph. Does anyone have any other questions? >> Thank you for the detail, Kim. >> Thanks, Kim. >> Honestly, Tom says everything all up front. There's very little I have to add at the end. >> That's very nice of you.
>> All right. Next on the agenda, we have accepting a $1,000 donation from Bay Path University to support the East Long Meadow Police Department. Uh, so this has gone back and forth with a couple mistakes. We didn't realize that Bayath sent us two donations, so we kept
looking at the opposite one each time we were looking at it. So, the one we're approving tonight is police and then at next meetings, >> I'll give you >> I'll give you the fire one next. >> Okay. >> I I I couldn't figure out what this is. The only one I had on my desk and I I
didn't see the police one and I he he's like, "Is that police or fire? Can you just double check it?" I'm like, Inspire. >> Oh, it's not >> right. Sorry. Little chuckle. >> A motion. >> Sure. >> Okay. I move to accept a donation in the
amount of $1,000 from Bay Path University to support the East Law Meadow Police Department for Massachusetts General Law Chapter 44 section 53A. >> Second. >> Motion was made and seconded. Is there any further discussion? Seeing none, all
those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? >> Passes. >> Thank you, Bay Path. >> Yes. Thank you very much to them for that. >> And then next we have accepting a $1,200 donation from the Ley family. It's
actually two donations, one for a,000 and one for $200. Um, but thank you to them as well. Is there a motion? I move to accept a donation in the amount of $1,200 from the Ley family per
Massachusetts general Law Chapter 44 section 53A. >> Second. >> Motion was made and seconded. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor, please say I. >> I. >> Any opposed? Motion passes. Next we have approving town employee
compensation increases from the resulting compensation and classification study that exceeded 10% in a fiscal year which is uh necessary per our charter article 3 section two powers and duties. I'll let Tom provide a background to
this. Well, uh I'll I'll start the background with this with an apology because uh of all the moving parts in this implementing this uh I forgot the most important piece which was in order to get some of these to the minimum there was an increase of 10%. Which
requires your approval. So um I do apologize that is my fault. Uh I totally uh totally missed that uh upon that implementation. So, I apologize. Again, this is just uh to get these three employees to the bottom rung of the
ladder based on the new uh wage and classification study. So, mayoral there, I apologize. Any questions? >> So, I'm disappointed. Um I did talk to
you months ago with regards to it. Um basically acknowledged it. You knew it. Um, and it looks like they've already received their compensation increases. Um, I I just
>> Yep. I can't apologize enough. >> I'm definitely I'm I'm definitely not happy with it. And um I mean when I discussed it with you it was basically like hey um I know some people and again I we didn't know if it was going to be
three or 30 or um because the last time we actually looked at the compensation um you had said well you know this is the basic this is where we think it's going it still needs some tweaks it's not completed yet and that's where we
stood with it and you know we had talked about well if someone was going to go quite a bit you don't have to do it all at once you could split it into two separate years um I mean and this all started and the only reason that this is
in the charter and the 10% is because of a previous town manager that gave raises that were >> right >> extremely excessive and the council had no clue and then all of a sudden it comes time for the budget And it's like,
well, I already got that. Um, it's contractual. You just got to go with it. And >> it feels as though this is somewhat the same. It's already been done. There's nothing I can do. Um, you
just got to say yes. Um, >> yeah. No, like I said that I I opened with an apology and I mean it. Uh I I I know better. Uh I know we talked about it. I talked about it with uh I think President O'Shea as well. Uh and it
didn't happen. Um I don't know what else to say besides I I do apologize. Um, and if there's a way to uh if there's a way that you're more comfortable for for this outlay, then then that's something we can talk about.
>> Ralph, what was your conversation with Tom? I guess I don't know. >> So, I reminded him that there was a 10% there was a charter um rule that basically said any increase above 10% has to receive prior approval from the council. And I just wanted to make sure
with all these changes that no one was going to go above that. And if they did that he came to us and said, "Hey, listen. These three people are going to." >> Um, and again, I do understand. I did look at the compensation. I did look at the jobs. Um, I'm not saying that the
people don't >> deserve to to make a minimum of, you know, what they are. Um, that's not my issue. Um, >> they took it out of order. It's It's out of order. >> And again, that that was my issue with it. >> No, I >> And if I didn't come out and say it, it
wouldn't be right either. I mean, >> it still wouldn't be right. No, I >> like I said, I just >> that apology was for all of you and especially for you cuz I do recall you reminding me three months ago. >> Tom, did you just forget? >> Yep.
>> Okay. And so so last month we were we were sort of we you know we started this in like April or May and we finally were getting to a point and that's why we did all those transfers at the last meeting for because the the money for this was
our was in the budget in the reserve fund but we can't use the general fund for the increases in the enterprise funds which is so we worked on getting all those figures together and and having that motion done. And then
it was after that meeting when I had a oh shoot moment and again uh I do apologize. >> So these um increases are budgeted. >> Well that that that's why we budgeted the extra money in the reserve fund line
item so that next year there'll be no increase in the budget cuz I'll bring the reserve fund back down to whatever it needs to be. But when did we actually when did we actually start paying these the increases? >> So it I think it was right around right before Christmasish.
It was it was after we we made the motions >> at the December meeting >> because we didn't have the money to do that. >> I think the email said November. >> I thought it said November as well. I didn't see that. Okay. Thank you.
>> Just listening to it. I think it is important to distinguish the fact that Why that 10% is there was because stuff was done not out in the open previously and there was a compensation study here done. So it's not like the numbers are
surprising or the races are surprising. The process got screwed up but there's no intent in terms of hiding anything. I think that's an important distinguish >> factor here in >> talking about this. >> Yes. And I think for the public benefit too, although the numbers sound high
when you think about them in percent for a couple of the employees, they were pretty >> paid. So it sounds like a big percent, but dollar-wise, it's not exactly a gigantic increase.
>> I've said my piece. >> There's no other comments. I'll entertain a motion. I move to approve the town employee compensation increases from the compensation and classification study exceeding 10% in the fiscal year per the charter article 3 section two powers and
duties >> oh hold on >> sorry Jessica >> I'm bringing the wrong paper >> Jessica Stacy 17.26% Christopher Quinn 17.69% 69% Audra Graham 10.92%.
>> Second. >> I would uh ask for a roll call vote on this one. >> Sure. >> So motion was made and seconded. >> We will do a roll call vote. Is there any other discussion vote? Seeing none. Jim, >> yes. >> Kathy, >> yes. >> Anna,
>> yes. >> Emma, yes. Marilyn, >> yes. >> Ralph, >> no. >> And John, >> yes. >> Motion passes. Thank you. Next on the agenda, we have appropriating $250,000 from free cash
for the Carlin Combustion Cleanup Project at 70 Maple Street. And I will turn that over to Tom. >> All right. >> Thank you. Um, so I I'll ask uh Rebecca for for some assistance with this agenda
item as well. Eric Weiss is here from Pioneer Valley Planning Commission. Uh they've been doing quite a bit of work to get us to this point, which uh we still got a long way to go, but uh I can't even explain how much work Rebecca and Eric and the team at Wesson and
Samson uh D uh EPA even has been sort of helping us with the items that they can help with. they can't really help with the application because uh but um so th this appropriation uh in front of you is
is our commitment to sort of the project uh DP and and Pioneer Valley have um designated some funding for this project for us. Um and and again th this appropriation is to show sort of show
our commitment and leverage these funds towards our application. Um uh the the I don't want to say it's uh just a random amount of money. This is the same amount of money that that D um
offered uh us in their grant um for work to be done at the project. Um, and again, the the the the application process of this uh nature, I've said it already tonight, but this is a very comprehensive and a very competitive process. And the more
that we can show that the whole community is behind this application and this project, uh, the better. And and this is this agenda item is for sort of our sort a monetary commitment that were we to move forward that these funds
would be expended if need be. Um, I don't Is there anything else that that anybody wants to add uh in terms of the whole process? I mean, there's a lot uh going on here. Um, but if you guys want to >> Should I come up to the table or is it >> Come on up here.
>> Introduce yourself. Come >> outside the window, too. >> That was creepy. I'm going to have nightmares about that. >> Good evening, Marilyn. I think you and I know each other from a long ways back in the recycling world. >> Oh my gosh. Hi.
>> Hi. >> Arlene Miller, that whole crew. >> Yeah, absolutely. Good work back then. >> Um, so the everybody knows the property, you know, the challenges. In order to start the process of cleaning up, we put part of the brownfields grant in place
to help East Long Meadow through the process we have with the EPA fund. And subsequent to that, because of where things are at, the D of Massachusetts has offered up 250,000 to help start cleaning up the dirt at the site. And then the idea here is that they're making a a federal application for an
EPA grant, which is very competitive. And the more items you can put into that that make you competitive, the better off you're going to be. All of this has the overarching goal of cleaning up the site so that the town can do what it wants. You don't want what's there. You want to move on from that and then have something better there. And this is the
first steps, first significant steps taken to be able to do that. So obviously um it's important for the town to to measure this and take it right, but if everything can move ahead, then you'll be in a much stronger position to uh get this property redeveloped the way
you want to do it. >> I might just add that um this is the last year of um funding that came out of a bipartisan spending bill at the federal level. Um, so it's not clear when um funds for Brownfields cleanup will come back around or if they will.
Um, so we're in a really strategically um well poised position to um go after we're going after $4 million of uh cleanup funds from the federal government. Um, and just to reiterate what Eric and um, Tom are saying, um,
the application is scored better the the more funds that you could demonstrate have been leveraged alongside of the 4 million that we're asking for. So, we have 250 committed from EPA. Um, PVPC has already committed um, funds through
the grant that they have with the EPA to um, secure the LSP services that we're getting from Wesson and Samson. Um moving forward onto um future assessment, we're going to receive another um almost $100,000 from PVPC there. And so we're looking to uh
demonstrate the town's commitment to um making sure that we can do all phases of cleanup and um plan for reuse um with this um funding that we're setting aside. >> Is 4 million what we think um it'll
cost? Okay. And so we're looking >> that's the largest sorry that's also the largest amount we can ask for isn't it? >> Yes. >> We are looking to spend 250 to get 4 million. >> So I I sort of drew the comparison to um
like our our outlook on North Main out here. How we we've sort of we put up the half a million to do all the design and then with with the thoughts that that DOT would would sort of fund a lot of it. And it's it's a similar it's a it's a similar thought process again adding
this really bolsters our application and if if we knew we were the only one applying uh you know perhaps we wouldn't have to cross all the tees twice uh twice now around twice. Um, so I I think I think it behooves us to to sort of
show our level of commitment uh to this process in order to to re to to score the best we can um to get this to get this grant. >> I think and and the alternative is >> we don't get any funding. >> Right.
>> Right. >> Um I thought that there was some cleanup done on the site already. So uh there was a a lot of assessment work done. There was a lot of uh remediation done
uh in the form of um soil removal, but a lot of that soil ended up in the building. >> Correct. >> Um and we were talking about this before the meeting that uh as as this process was coming up, DP was going to offer some funding to remove that dirt from
the building and the price of which got sort of astronomical. uh based on sampling of that soil and how far they had to drive the soil uh transportation again, right? Um and so that that has sort of now turned into
funds that we can leverage for this project. Uh all of which will still include removing all the dirt. Um so did that answer? >> Yeah. Yeah. I think as as you're speaking my brain is also thinking
>> and um I remember possibly that surface the surface was cleaned up. >> Yeah. But if if there was going to be major excavation that that would require additional >> so so and again there there's a lot of assessment work that is going to have to
continue to happen >> right >> um I think we have a good picture of what the site is but once we start peeling back layers uh we're going to find out that there's that there's more that >> hope you don't find any surprises >> so yeah um Again, the the the
application is now uh on the website uh excuse me, the draft, right, is on the website. Um it's right on the front page on the on the news flash uh on the news flashash site. Um and again, uh we're
we're also sort of soliciting attendance uh at the planning board meeting on the 20th. We've been sort of reaching out to our community members. This is uh obviously this is a this is a very important project for the town of Isame.
Uh you know >> last little point um yeah this allows you to do two things at the same time which is continue the assessment with Weston and Samson and apply for funds. It's not that one's going to stop the other. So you're going to be able to answer some of those questions because that's important to the cleanup process as well.
>> That's true. I think the way I was thinking about this, similar to you mentioned the North Main Street projects, is that if we do end up getting the grant, it is a relatively small investment, but we get a pretty good value out of it overall.
And then of course, it is important to clean up the site. It's vacant and blighted, and it would be nice to be able to do something with it other than have it just sit there contaminated. um >> once it's cleaned up and on the tax roles, it'll generate many more millions of dollars for the town. So, it's
important, it's imperative that it it gets cleaned up and it's a key location in town. So, >> and then I think it's something Tom and I were talking about too the other day that of course we hope we get the grant, but should that not succeed and we're not able to move forward with
the project given that exorbitant cost at least in the immediate budget cycle. Um it doesn't mean that that 250,000 has to stay appropriated. We could always resend that in the future if things don't come to fruition. Yeah.
>> So, I mean, good commitment assuming that things move forward and then if plans have to change, there's still options. >> Do you have any idea how much money is available for this? >> What do you mean by that? I mean, we're
asking for 4 million. Is that the is that the the biggest amount or are there is is the the um the you know the amount of money available for this project more than that >> the the cap on the ask on the grant is $4 million. So it's the most that you
>> like the total amount of like federal government >> how competitive is it? >> Yeah. I don't know the total amount. >> Okay. >> Has been appropriated. >> Yeah. >> Oh, I saw it before. Um, of course he did. >> Well, because I believe it was last year
there was like 16 towns that received some funding, >> right? >> And there were two or three different programs, so it's hard to tell. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, >> but I remembered this was the last year. >> Um, I do have a question. >> Um, >> so if we receive the grant for 4
million, >> what does it include? Is it just the cleanup, the demo of the building, and there's no construction? No, I mean, obviously, we haven't decided >> once it's cleaned up what we're even doing with the property yet. So, um I
mean, I know Rebecca was just talking about it getting back on the tax roles. Um the problem is is it's a town- owned parcel right at the moment. So, >> the town would be paying themselves if they paid taxes on it, which is zero. Um, and again, not knowing exactly what
we're doing with it, I'm assuming the grant is strictly for clean up, the demo of the building, any additional contamination that may have spread um, off the site, >> future monitoring, >> future monitoring. >> A lot of that rides on what they discover or don't discover as they
continue the evaluation of the site. >> And that will also determine how far that 4 million can go. >> So, I wish I could answer that question, but I can't. But I mean, as far as there's nothing for reconstruction on the site at the moment. >> No, this is all for clean up and getting
the site as clean as possible. >> Then we we could figure out what >> if it's something that we want to use for municipal use, then obviously it won't be on the tax ro. But if we want to market the property, we put it back on the tax. >> Then you have a clean property you're
trying to market in the middle of your town. Um, and if we're going to clean up a place >> in the middle of the town, >> definitely a really good one to do. >> Yeah, I agree. >> And we had already discussed and thought about this when the town actually took it. So,
>> and then we have a document from West Mass Development that talks about um funding sources and opportunities once the site is clean or when we're in the process of the reuse phase. So that like once we clean the site, we have also new
opportunities to get more funding to repurpose and reuse. >> Right. Oh yeah, that's right. I forgot about that West Mass paper. >> Right. >> Sorry. This was already set. But when would we um know when we got the grant? >> 2082.
>> It's like four or five months down. >> Five months from now. >> Wow. >> It's an interesting amount of time to continue the assessment work. So that >> but I don't want to sell myself on that. I think it's May, but it could be June. But and with all the
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Sounds cool. >> Any other questions? >> No. >> And I'll entertain a motion. >> I move to appropriate 250,000 from free cash for the Carling combustion cleanup project at 70 Maple Street. >> I'll second that. >> Motion was made and seconded. Is there
any further discussion? >> Seeing none. All those in favor, please say I. I. >> Any opposed? Motion passes. >> Yep. >> I have to say it's a real pleasure working with these two. So, thank you both very much. >> You too, sir. Thank you. >> Thank you. >> Thank you all for your hard work putting it together.
>> Give me something to read after. >> Yeah. Right. >> You know, I was thinking of you when I hit >> 25 page >> and it's dense reading. >> Thank you for taking the time. >> I never very much double.
>> No, I know. Okay. Next, we have approval of our December 9th meeting minutes. Is there a motion? >> I move to approve the December 9th, 2025 meeting minutes. >> Second. >> Motion's been made and seconded. Is there any further discussion? Say none. All those in favor, please say I.
>> I. I. >> Any opposed? Extensions. >> Abstain. >> Extension. Okay. Uh, next under old business, we have our recurring topic for the 250th anniversary and potentially celebration
ideas. Um, I thought of a couple things them down is the question. Um, I know in previous years, um, I think this was back for the town's
125th, there was like some sort of gala that was put on. I don't know if there's an interest in doing that from a town celebration perspective. That could be interesting. >> Gala gala. >> Yeah, >> I love a galla. >> The word's not used enough. >> I know, right? Um there could also be
like tree planting. I know. Especially as ones have fallen over over storms down some of our main streets. Maybe we line some streets with 250th trees. I don't know. 250 trees for the 250th. That's expensive, I'm sure.
Maybe I can retire. >> I can't take a contract with the talent. >> I know. >> And then I know >> come back after the contract. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I've seen in some other communities uh throughout Mass that they have on the
utility polls, they have different banners um either just like celebrating different seasons or sometimes they call them like hometown heroes. at the 125th. It was very nice. >> Yes. That might be interesting to do. >> And the galla was very nice.
>> Well, you won all the big prizes. >> I did. >> Oh, wow. >> I would I would think we should look into what the cost would be to do something like that, >> right? And maybe that's something we could ask the historical commission if there's >> previous service members or something
that could be recognized on it or something. >> Yeah. Some of them specifically in towns, they leave them up year round and it's like people that have like served in their military from their community. That could be something that's interesting.
>> Um I'm meeting with Tom Behan, um the chair of historical tomorrow actually. They're they're talking the reminder to sort of talk about the time capsule and the 250th. So uh I will bring that up. Um they're always looking for for fun stuff like that to do. That that would
be that would be really cool. Yeah, >> I think there's actually a company that makes them that maybe isn't called Hometown Heroes. So, >> be something to look at. >> Those are the ideas that I were thinking of since the last meeting. I don't know if anyone has anything else. We're going
to continue to meet as a we have sort of like a impromptu kind of group at Rotary and historical and um parade committee and just trying to to get our ideas. We we we sort of took a little break here for the
holidays, but we I'll get that email started again to try to figure out um what what everybody around town is thinking, but I think uh everybody's getting a little bit excited about uh there's a lot of stuff going on in the state, too. So, um I I'll continue I if
it's okay, perhaps we keep that uh sort of on the agenda. >> Yeah, >> we just kind of keep coming up with ideas. These are I always come up with fun ideas about 14 minutes after I leave the parking lot. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We'll get that's a recurring topic for sure.
>> Can we look into um if we're marching in the parade to get the same shirts or something? >> Oh yeah, that's a good idea. >> A sash. >> You have to wear it to the gala too. >> Gala
order the sash. >> Dazzled. Bedazzled >> getting sashes. >> I think that's something we've thought about every time we're the day of the parade and we're like think about that for next year and then we >> feel like a nice pole shirt or >> golf shirt. >> That's a good idea. >> I don't want to wear
>> a little worse. >> Oh, Jamie, >> if you do a gala or anything, um I just want to offer up Okay, we can make videos about anything. I kind of had an idea to do like 250 tidbits about the parade in East Meadow. like anything like that you guys think of I can
probably make >> Yeah, she could definitely do it. >> Good. >> Great idea. >> Awesome. >> Yeah. And maybe kind of even on the Fourth of July theme, maybe there's something I don't know what off the top of my head, but we may have that
celebration account. Maybe there's something we could add to ramp it up this year. Especially knowing that people were a little deflated last year over the fireworks thing. Maybe there's something more we can do as an extra special year. >> I don't know what, but
>> yeah. No, I think uh yeah, we can we can sort of do whatever we want. I think if we there's a lot of ideas out there. I think again, like I said, a lot of people are sort of talking about it and thinking about it. And >> Ralph, >> we'll do hot air balloon rides. Oh,
>> speaking of insurance, >> actually we um Eastwan Meadow Small Business Association did that for the first October. I guess >> uh the amount of people that stopped and came over, they had no clue what else was going on, but they wanted to take a
ride in the hot air balloon, >> uh it drew in quite a few extra people. >> Nice. >> And the cost is actually wasn't bad at all. Um, they did it by the hour. I think we had them for three or four hours there. >> That's kind of cool. >> Yeah, that's pretty neat. The whole
council could go up and take us all out at once, right? >> We'll have take a picture of us up there. >> Up there. That'd be awesome. >> Who's the designated survivor? >> Marilyn will be on the ground
>> with a BB gun. >> Yeah, >> I'll ride in a chase vehicle. All right. Well, now that we uh deflated that topic, we'll move to this item. >> Good pun segue. I love a good pun segue.
>> Uh next was just an update on the zoning diagnostic deliverables. Um I know from the bylaw review committee perspective, we had met with the Sultan Barrett plan for like the initial overview of their plan. I was just wondering what the
update on the next steps were from uh what they owe the town. >> Uh do I'm not even really sure where uh where that's at. I I I saw I I I meant to ask Rob about it this morning and I
do you have an update on Barrett where where where they're at like what their next sort of >> deliverables >> deliverable is. Um I think we are at this so we we created the diagnostic and we did a video with LCAT um at the
beginning of last week and so that's in production and that's going to be um generating public um input and uh interest in the survey that we created and then I think from the survey um we'll be able to um get feedback from
residents and put it alongside of the feedback that they got from other um boards and commissions in town that they interviewed. And then we'll get a set of recommendations um and they'll probably rank order the recommendations based on the feedback and the priorities that they're getting
from the community and the stakeholders that they've spoken with. Um, I think that we could also ask for some like language on some of them as like model bylaws, but um I think the next
thing is just going to be um rank ordering the recommendations and getting ready to present you all with a final document. >> Great. Did they have any estimation when just roughly when that might be? Is that like months away or? >> Uh I have a timeline. I can look it up
if you give me a second. Sure. >> It'll it'll take a minute or two. So, you can >> Sorry to put you on the spot. Yeah. I I meant to ask Rob this morning. I forgot. >> I can email all you an update tomorrow, too. >> Yeah. Or if you just want to send it to us, that's fine, too.
>> Okay. Great. Okay, in the interim, we will move on to the next topic under old business, which is some goals and language for town district zoning bylaw. So, from some previous meetings that we had, um, this
is hopefully just to start enumerating things that we might want to see or might not want to see in any language that is crafted for a center town district zoning bylaw that we get that process back on track. I don't know if anyone has anything that
they want to lead with, but the floor is open. >> Sure. You want me to start? >> Sure, Ralph. >> Um, so initially when we talked about a center town district, um, one of my concerns
was the industrial uses within the center of town. Um, I don't think the center of our town should be used for manufacturing facilities. Um now originally along the railroad is where the industrial zone went and obviously
that's how most of the products and all came and went. Um I just think going forward the center of our town should move away from industrial uses, stay with business uses, commercial uses. Um
I mean one of our thoughts is well we want to make it more walkable. I understand that. But how are we going to deal with the traffic within the town in order to make it more walkable? Uh what's the infrastructure going to look like to get to that point? Because it's hard to
create something. I mean, you can create a center town district around what we have now, but you can never call it walkable. Um you're taking your life in your hand trying to walk across a center. So, I I think this is one that's that's working, but I would look towards
the industrial and see what uses are allowed in the industrial that we no longer want. I think that's critical. Um, like I said, warehouses, manufacturing, stuff like that. Now, granted, even if we remove that from our zoning, anyone that's currently doing
that will be grandfathered in and can continue to do it. So, um I think certain things we have to look at is uh parking areas. >> Um are we going to allow a small area for let's say a parking garage, you
know, maybe down I'm going to say the end of um what is a Baldwin Street or something. And I'm not talking a fourstory parking garage. I'm just uh talking an area that's maybe two stories or whatever to where when you exit it,
you're right on the walking trail. I mean, these are things that I think we should start to look at, start to look at. I mean, as it was brought up before, um shortcuts. Um by shortcuts, I mean, let's say you want to go over towards
the Rockies in the plaza. Well, if you're parked over at the library, you really don't want to have to walk down around the rotary and down. Is there any walkways or whatever that we can put in um to make things shorter? Um
obviously, we've got a beautiful walking trail. Um we need to look at ways to connect that to actual businesses, even the businesses that are currently near it. believe there's only one I think it's the bike shop on Shaker Road >> that actually has
>> maybe two now that have connections. >> None of the other ones have connections and I mean that's something we have to look at. Um just a few suggestions. >> Is there any um
don't even have the right word to ask here. um the expansion of the the rail, the walking trail. Is that somewhere on a back burner or >> So, uh it's on a burner. >> Uh and I I just talked to the property
owner last week. Um we need to sort of initiate what that looks like when the property is transferred in terms of the site plan that is approved on the property. So that is in the calculation for both land area for the development
uh the center square uh and the parking calculation and some parking spaces. So um we have to sort of look at the logistics of what a what a acquisition of the land looks like and then what sort of amendment to the site plan has
to happen at the planning board. Uh so yes, it's on a burner. Uh not the front, not the back, uh right in the middle. Um but the conversations are ongoing and and again, we have a a feasibility that was done last year. And so we just need
to get we sort of need to get that to the to the front burner. But yes, that that is a plan. It's on the stove. Um but yes that that I think that would be uh sort of a a key sort of
ticket to some of development especially in the back part of that area too. >> The redesign of the rotary >> is really I think key to how we can develop how to use the land. Mhm.
>> Um because there was well it was one example and I thought we were going to see something else. >> It's coming. Y >> and you know that one that we looked at did acquisition of land, additional buildings, park, street parking. Um I
think of street parking with the way things are set up right now and it makes me scared. I mean it makes me nervous. >> Yeah. Yeah. Right. >> What's what's going through the town center? So, um I don't think that we can look at one without looking at the other. >> Okay.
>> I think that's a good point, especially if that either removed some land that you would previously have thought would have been part of a center town district or maybe it adds land that now we should consider uses for in what the district could could encompass. So, they do kind
of go hand in hand. Ralph. >> So, I'm just going to elaborate a little bit on the walking trail. >> Um, I think one of the holdups has been the fact that they the
the plaza there needed x number of spots, correct? And so, they put them out there, >> right? Um, I've recently been made aware by another decision that the planning board had made um that currently they can wave the requirements for the number of parking
spaces. And if that's the case, until that's changed, >> um, a site plan may want to be brought forwards um, sooner rather than later to say, "Hey, these spots aren't being used.
Do we still need those? And if the planning board would be so apt to adjust the site plan and wave the required number of spots, then the rail trail may be able to go forwards quicker. >> Yeah. And so, uh, we had
>> I want that. >> No, I know we had talked about that, but there there there still would have to be some sort of engineering cost to to change those plans. What even if they did put a check mark on the waiver for the parking spots, that site plan has to
be revised, right? The the the area in which it sits is going to change. The there's more changes than just the parking required for which again, if we did that parking now compared to what they did it when it happened with the different businesses that are in there,
that parking count might not even be accurate anyway. Right. So, if I'm correct, uh, back then, wasn't there two separate plans? Was there a site plan and then a parking plan >> for the was all under special permit.
So, um, I think well, but it was a planned business development and the parking was all encompassed with with the plan. So, I so I don't believe that it was separate. >> Okay. I also don't agree with what you're saying
>> and I'm sorry. >> We're not thinking alike right now. Um when the planning when the council changed the bylaw um based on um Bailey's recommendation
for the parking plan. Um this was added, the waiver was added at that time and I'm trying to picture it. You know, you're looking at the chapter and the section for off- streetet parking. And
then you look at item A, which is basically a subsection. And under item A is 1 2 3 4 5 six. Number six was the waiver. And based on the cover letter
that um Bailey um added with the the application and the language, we understood when we voted on it that the waiver was for that section only. And but it was written wrong because it should be subsection rather than
section. And if you look at his cover letter, there's an area that says, "I'm not asking you to make any ch changes to the parameters of the off- streetet parking." It's just to give was to give
him more latitude as a director who was handling these things in the office rather than the planning board. So I actually have written this information to the chairman of the planning board who asked us if there would asked me if
there was anything that I felt we needed to look at and I was one of them. So I gave it to him. I don't know where it's going to go, but I really feel that the intent of the change that we all made was not to give the planning board the
power to change the dimensions of parking places, park, you know, the size of parking, the number of parking, um the amount of area between, you know, in a park in a large parking lot, there's a certain amount of area that's required
between the spaces. All of that is is really at this point carved in stone until you know something were to change. I don't feel that do this right now. I wouldn't approve it. You know, I know what you want to do, but I don't think
it's right because that's not what the intent of the change was to begin with. >> And I think out of principle, and I found out right around the same time he did. um why have such a robust set of calculations and regulations in your parking requirements just for somebody
to wave them, >> right? >> Um I I I totally agree >> and I think that but and also in that cover letter, Bailey very specifically mentioned that he s you know he suggested that the town you know deal work with a consultant and look at our
parking requirements and I absolutely support that. I mean, we talked about it when we looked at the aerial view of how much parking you have in the town center, and I was absolutely amazed myself. >> I just feel like, you know, we just need to do it correctly.
>> Yeah. And I I I think we talked about it sort of tangentially as well when all this storm water came in, right? We were like, they're trying to cut down the amount of pavement, yet we require that they have all that pavement, right? And so it it like the the regulations aren't talking to one another, but they set,
you know, years back >> until they get changed there. You know, there's no reason to have a parking spot for every 250 ft of warehouse, right? I mean, it it it's not it's not necessarily correct anymore, >> right? That that's what needs to be
looked at, not leaving the whole thing. >> Actually, when you think about it, we have um parking plans for our housing for the elderly. They don't have cars, you know, they're old people and and
Some of them some of them do. No, I'm just being being facicious when I said that when the bylaw was created >> and we have huge parking plan problems >> and the requirement and the actual use aren't there right those parking those parking spaces on the rail trail are
absolutely required never used ever ever ever >> right >> and actually we reduced that >> to go to brew practitioners >> yeah brew okay >> we actually lobster for that project because we went back to town meeting after it was established
>> and reduced it. was five spaces per thousand square feet >> and we reduced it to four and a half which doesn't sound like a lot but when looking at the whole parking lot it allowed the restaurant to seat more people >> and I wonder if it's been revised every
time a use has changed in one of those spaces cuz I'm guessing it hasn't >> can it's it's special permit >> right no but I think what he was saying is certain businesses go in and um they were high Well, that's
the problem we never looked at. So, >> well, we had in that particular >> proposal, we were looking at hight traffic generators and the bank was considered one. >> Um, but here, you know, just everything changes. >> Which bank? >> Yeah,
>> one of many. Anyway, anyway, >> you're going to miss me in June. >> You'll be glad I'm gone. Whatever. >> So, are we are we So, I think when we when we sort of started the whole thing, I'm all for getting those industrial
uses out of the center of town. Uh, this commercial seems much more appropriate. Um, so from a use standpoint, I I I think that's okay. But are we we're looking at a mixeduse zoning bylaw? Is that is that something
that people want to see what that looks like? I mean, different than what was submitted prior. Um, like maybe maybe more along the lines of the mixeduse village bylaw that was put together, which was a little more um straightforward.
>> The mixeduse village bylaw that we did was was created for a large >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And we knew at the time that there would be um at least I thought that we we were hopeful that we could have something on a much smaller scale in our town center.
um that was brought up then um I would think that if we're going to look at mixed use um and we and I have no problem with that because half the use is already there. You want to just add the residential piece. >> Yep.
>> And so that would trigger in my mind some standards or some some criteria to just create the use and then allow all the land to be developed in one specific way. I don't think is in the best interest of
the town center. Um I you know I really think that we would need to have you know basically conceptually look at we're looking at 70 Maple and we we have already seen a plan that could possibly exist on that property and yeah but the
question is are we going to see that the end of Baldwin Street? Are we going to see that um with um Steve Graham's property? Um, we we have to be I think we have to be careful as to how much we invite into the town center because
where are we going to where are we going to put it all? Where are we going to put all the the people, the traffic? I seem to be the only one concerned about that. But, you know, that's you know, we need to have some kind of criteria to be able to, you know,
encourage development in a certain way. I guess that's where I'm going. I think housing and commercial are important. I think only having one of them, you got to kind of have both of it because I think there is a demand for newer different businesses, but there's
also a demand for housing, especially for, you know, either the younger generation coming up or the over 55ers that don't want to be in their existing maybe their existing home. I do think also another conversation is I think
open space is really important. So I think retaining most of the open space we have I think there's a tremendous value of having whether it's those fields or just that area of the lake area just be um continue to stay open because I think could be attractive for
development but I you know we don't we only have so much open space now. >> No low income highrises on centerfield. Is that what you're saying? >> That that's a no. Um, and I I do kind of agree with RA. I think it's hard to make it walkable. I think I would love to make it a little
safer. I think there's some whether it's changing maybe the way >> Yeah, that might rotary design. Yeah. >> You know, whether it's maybe having people drive a little slower. I know that might be hard, but you know, I don't but it shouldn't it shouldn't be
necessarily like a death trap. like we we should make it. There's a lot of these little small New England towns that have very easy walkable places where they have shops and then maybe they have like couple houses or whatnot in that area. I think that is very doable. So, I think it's generally a I
think there's so much potential. I think it's an underdeveloped area and I think the existing traffic that definitely is an issue but I think a lot of that stems from just we have you know a lot of people coming in from outside of center town you know that need to you that need to use that area. So um those are my
thoughts. I think open space housing commercial I think it all is important to have that be a part of it. >> Great. I'm going to say something at the risk of showing how little I know about this stuff. Um, all right. So, we are trying
to think of a center town district bylaw, create a bylaw in order to have a developer come in, right, >> and create something based on that bylaw. >> Right? >> The way I look at it is I look at it backwards. I look at it is can someone give us
something that we like and that we want to see and then base our bylaw off of that. >> Yeah. I like I can't picture things like when I saw that um proposal for the center >> y
>> I was blown away because I cannot picture and every when we're talking about this all I can picture is West Harford >> but the streets are wider there's on street parking >> but the streets are a lot wider and all I can think about is like all right how are we going to do that Maple Street
like I can't y >> I in my brain it just doesn't connect. So, one of the other projects going on right now through a grant is to sort of provide some renderings. So, you so you have a visual of what that would look like, >> right? >> What what this density on this property
with this parking would would actually look like. So, I don't know when we expect >> is it just like when you say density, you mean you're talking housing? >> Yeah. Like if it would >> Yeah, but instead of like just housing, like can we Right. >> Yep. >> Okay. >> Yeah. So it would be well it's a mix it
would our directive >> was a mixeduse. >> Okay. >> Okay. So there would be sort of a firstf floor commercial component with apartments and say what I think we gave them specific sites like what would that look like at on Ramitos and it it's a 3D
it'll be a 3D rendering of and I'm not sure when we expect to deliver. We have a meeting >> meeting with them >> Thursday. Um, so we're meeting with them Thursday to sort of sort wrap up this process of because most people and again that was the first I really saw and
pictured when when um they did when Yukon Tab did that layout of 70 Maple, >> right? >> Um it's hard to know what you're looking at and what that even you know like you can say 12 units 15 units per acre. What does that even mean? You can't picture
that, right? So until you see what it looks like on a lot that you recognize, I I totally agree with you. And so I that was the point of going after that grant was so that we could show what what looks like. >> Yeah. And I guess I I can't figure out
what I would want there un >> fair I don't think you're I don't think that is I don't think that's you a lot of people share that opinion. >> Okay. >> It's hard to see. It's hard to visualize, >> right? >> Um, and again, even the pictures we're
seeing in these progress meetings when we see it, you know, some of that just doesn't work on this particular site, right? Like, it's going to be hard. Again, we'll go back to our parking stuff. It's going to be hard for somebody to go into Stacy's and have enough parking,
>> right? >> Not going to happen, right? It's going to be, excuse me, not going to happen. It's going to be difficult. there is going to be some challenges with that site based on our current zoning. But if we had a different zone overlaying that
or we changed it to a different zone, maybe there maybe there's more that can happen there and that property flips over faster. Um, so I totally agree and and we'll have a more of an update. Maybe we can maybe I can shoot you guys an email on Thursday to see how that
meeting goes and if there's anything that we can share at this point to we we picked strategically a bunch of lots around the center uh and then a little bit down where where the original proposal had gone down Shaker uh you know like one of those lots on Shaker to see what something like that would look
like. So um that that is another deliverable that's coming to sort of provide a picture of whatever parameters we gave them mixeduse 12 units per acre or something like that. >> Design standards though too. >> Yeah. >> And the reason why I say that is and I
mean people were very much upset with the um the bank in the center of town. >> Yeah. >> Chase Bank. Um it just didn't look like how they thought it should look. But when no offense to the gentleman um Rebecca I can't remember who provided us
with the town center um changing redesign. >> Yeah. >> Jeff Spec. >> Well, he showed us his house >> and it was just it's it was >> it was >> not you. It wasn't you. >> No,
I'm sorry. But I mean, I I don't think that that's what the town of East Long Meadow would like to embrace is something that different than what's already here. >> The history stuff is going to stay. >> And so, um, you know, I don't think it's impossible to come up with something
that most people would be happy with, >> right? >> But if you're going to make a change that drastic, >> you know, I don't know. Well, this is something that we've been working on internally because the bylaw says that the design review committee should be installed in every site plan.
>> Absolutely. >> That's what it says. >> Right. Right. >> So, we do have a tiny bit of a disconnect in that the appointing authority for everything >> does not have appointing authority over the design review committee, which is which is a little bit of a dot that needs to connect. And again, it's not a
big deal. the planning director and some of the planning board are on it when need be. But from a from a governmental operation standpoint, that's something we'll maybe try to earmark when we >> I think it's that's an easy fix. >> I 100% 100%. I I wouldn't even worry
about it. But when it comes to a site plan, it's it's it's it's a requirement. It's a you know, the the design review committee should be in there. Um, so I think the design characteristics of
whatever I mean that an application on this proposed bylaw is obviously quite a quite a bit off in the future um because we haven't we're sort of back to the drawing board on on pinning it. So, um
I think uh in terms of in terms of the requirements of the actual bylaw language is is the is the setup of the mixeduse village kind of how you want to see it? is that does that have it won't have the
same numbers obviously because like you said it was sort of set up for a larger parcel but if the density you know if there was a density requirement and you brought up last time the the front yard setback being zero and we could put it
on the street um you know things like that uh is is that more in line with with what you want to see for a center town district bylaw whatever those numbers happen to be whether we agree with them or hot. >> But I think some of the uses that we
looked at in that larger project would be overwhelming for a town center. >> I 100% agree. >> We don't need an, you know, so that would have I mean, if you're going to look at that as a as a potential example that we should probably step back and say, okay, we don't need self storage.
>> I didn't necessarily mean all the components of that bylaw. I meant sort of how you have it structured. >> Right. >> Right. >> Special permit. Well, >> so any mixed juice development would go under special permit. >> Is that how the Yeah. Okay. >> Well, so the mixed juice village, the
entire thing is under special permit. >> Okay. >> Um but again, one of my concerns is when you come into the center, if you're going to be allowing apartments, well, are we going to limit the number of apartments? And um what about the parking? Um, are they going to turn
around and build it close to the parking garage which is public and say, "Hey, you don't need parking spaces here because you can walk two blocks down and use that." Um, again, these there's so many >> I think
>> intricacies that um, and again, I know we've been talking apartments and stuff. Um, I still have a concern. I mean, I go way back to uh when this came up at town meeting and basically the town said, "We
want our town, the center to be basically business and we want our 1acre parcels with our nice houses um you know, out surrounding it." And that's what we want. >> And I don't know I don't know how much
the town's changed since that. Um I know some people have, some love both apartments, some don't. Um, I go and I I keep looking even in my own uh self is if you're owner occupied, you take care
of the property a lot better. Um, my parents rented for 50 years. And there was so much more we could have done there, but the thought process was always, how much do we want to sink into someone else's property to make it more valuable so that we're going to pay more
when he's ready to sell it to us. So, we maintained it, but we didn't keep improving it. And I I worry about stuff like that. Um, you know, I go I'm in Springfield all the time and I look at some of these buildings and, you know,
we talk about revenue. Look at the revenue we can generate. They're going to be four stories and all these people and the building is worth more. Building is not worth anything. I mean, like I said, if it's not maintained, it falls apart and it's not worth anything. I mean, Eastwang Meadow is a highvalued
community, and I don't want us to diminish what we have by overcrowding our Rotary. Um, and I worry about that. And again, I don't have all the answers. I have a lot of fears. I don't have all
the answers. Um, I just I think the more oversight we have on it, the better. But a developer is probably not going to want that much oversight because it's a lot more red tape that you have to go through to get it built. >> And this is this is an interesting
conversation that again I I feel like is changing because uh the state is pushing an agenda again and that's with site plan review. Um they're they're sort of putting parameters in place for site plan review for everyone. uh which is
scary and um for something like this that we're trying to sort of get off the ground and not sure what the final project product would look like. The special permit is an interesting little wrinkle. I didn't um consider that. But
um >> every location >> we don't know what's happening right now with this whole site plan thing. Rob's mentioned it a couple times that the state is sort of looking at sort of a holistic way that people are going to review site plans and uh sort
of like the the again I don't think we've seen the last of the Commonwealth getting into our zoning. Um whether we like it or not it it is what it is. We're not >> site plan review is simply a review process and it's based on the underlying
zone. I mean, and if and if the project meets the requirements of our current zone, then it's approved. Special permit gives you >> should be >> Well, it but no, I'm serious. >> No, no, special permit is different
>> and you can say I don't like the way the builder looks really. You could deny it for some ridiculous thing. um that hasn't happened and I don't think that it would because I think a special permit protects the developer. It also protects the town.
>> Well, and again I I'm I'm not I'm I'm sensing and and you're not alone that this is going to be new and there's going to be a lot of unknowns and fears and so if there's ways that we can put language in a bylaw that sort of diminishes
those fears will well great. And the piece that also concerns me is the value of our land. It's expensive and we have people in in in the town center who own property that would like to, you know, benefit from the value of that land. And
so, how much does a developer have to do on his or her parcel to appreciate, you know, a reasonable, you know, financial benefit? So, so >> you want the answer or no, but what I'm
trying to say is if we if there were like the original bylaw that has been removed, but where there was more of an emphasis for um a certain level of housing, um I would imagine that the developer
would have to build a heck of a lot more to make the financial goals that he or she is looking for. >> Yeah. So, so, so truth be told, we we had a bunch of conversations with a bunch of different developers and and this number or thereabouts, the 15 per
acre is is in this market kind of that number >> 15 per acre >> which is a rate market. >> No, no, no. And again, it it seems like a lot. Not every >> not not every parcel down there is a
full acre, right? So you're not getting uh 15 units per building or anything like that. And we'll have some similar size requirements and you can't do prison cells and have 20 of them. Um so
that there's character and a design car uh component to this. Um but yeah, the the the the actual number of dwelling units is quite high right now. And again, we sort of had this conversation about the
mixeduse village. That bylaw when it was written was appropriate >> for that location. >> And now five years later, >> nobody can build that. It's it it it's out of school already. It's no one's fault. The world changed, the economy
changed, and you cannot build that. You just can't. >> And it's not the residential piece that they can't build. It's a 30% commercial. >> There's a lot that whatever that that was Yeah. 100,000 square feet of commercial. Yeah, the it's nice that you could put that many apartments in there,
but you know, the apartments they're putting in right now are like modular units. Like, you can't even build anything right now. It's so expensive. >> But what that project did do, and I thought it was a nice step in the right direction, is that we went with affordable housing for 10% of the
housing stock in that development. >> Right. So that at least gave the town a start to try to provide a different type of house, but it was affordable, 80% medium, not affordable and below, >> right?
>> And and like it or not, you know, some folks are concerned about that. >> Was there a um uh preference for Islam residents in there, too? Do I recall that? >> Right. Right. Right. I mean, Connor and I both need an
apartment. So, I mean, my house two bedroom my house is two. He doesn't have one. So, >> we both need an apartment for different reasons. So, >> sounds like an odd couple situation. >> Do you want to rent together? >> We'll get a twobedroom.
>> Be living with his grandmother. kind of like Anna, I I'm I'm so far from being anywhere knowledgeable in the subject area, but I guess kind of hitting on some of what you just said, Tom, and you, Marilyn, and you I I've heard you
say this a bunch of times before is I think with this type of thing, you're, you know, you're trying to plan something for how the town's going to look when none of us are going to be here, >> right? Um, so one of the things I I I think I don't know how to articulate this in something like that, but it's it's flexibility to the point that you
just made. It's something that was current five years ago is no longer current. So how do you how do you craft something that is live, you know, lives and can can kind of change and and I I think what Ralph you just said with the special permit, I think that kind of allows you to do that. But I think also
setting some and I don't know how to articulate this on in a bylaw, you know, some type of standard and and to your point, John, you're doing commercial, you know, I think the the residential piece has to link to the commercial piece in some way because the residential has to kind of
support the the the commercial. Um, so it it I don't think it it can be it should be done in just a we allow residential, allow commercial, but I think it there should be some synergy there and not just support any new businesses, but to support current businesses, you know, as well. And what
does that kind of look like? Is it, you know, can a consultant help with that? Is it something that's even feasible or plausible? But I I agree. I think it that for the town in order to to grow, I think it can be done in a um cosmetically desirable way. I think it
be done in a thoughtful way that supports both business and commercial interest. Um and I think you're and I I my I guess my other one real concern listening to everything is okay, you have, you know, like the the the Carlin combustion site, you have a developer come in there, here, you know, looks
great, great. You know, we we we love it. We approve it. Now you have a larger parcel next door. It's, you know, do we want them to look different? Do we want them to look similar? Do we want some type of flow to everything? But now you're you're thinking 30 to 40 years out, you know, how do you, you know,
some parcel on Shaker becomes available that somebody wants to build on? And how do you link that parcel and shaker to be cosmetically and similar? Not I won't say similar but stylistically appropriate to what's going on in Maple Street and something there's a lot that's what where my thought processes
but I think it there there needs to be synergy to it all. I think that town should maintain some type of control so we can you know not allow some scrupulous developer to come in and and and do a project that nobody likes. But I I but I think it should be designed in a way that fits the town, fits the
town's character, achieves those developmental objectives of more residential. I think the other important part is is I'm going to speak for Tom on this. I'm going to speak for Ann on this. You know, at our age bracket, we don't have disposable income. You know, we need to keep our seniors here who are no longer
being weighed down by their children in their in in their in their additional income as well as the young people with no children to support these commercial. you know, we we you said, you know, there there there's so such a limited space for or such a limited market right now for additional commercial space.
It's, you know, we got to be flexible. And I think that's that's that's a big key to this is the flexibility in it all and not putting stuff that that's that's too concrete in there that that doesn't allow this this this bylaw to to to be productive, I guess, you know, 5 10 15
20 years from now. I think one of the things that you I think what you were zeroing in on in terms of look and feel and um is one of the things that has always in my experience been part of a zoning philosophy and that you're going
to basically develop um not in you know in sort of in concert with what's around you rather than you know low stuff high stuff low >> building for the sake of building, right? But I mean, when you go down the
center now, there the way it's there's so many industrial uses. There is none of that really. It's starting to, but there's there's a hodgepodge of a lot of stuff down. >> There's a situation in Long Meadow. Um it's at the border between Long Meadow and Enfield. And um it's and on the
Enfield side, they built Mayfair Place, which is the beautiful Y >> higherend apartment buildings. And the problem is the buildings were built without any buffers because it was Enfield. They didn't have to care about what was happening in Long Meadow.
>> And so these people in their backyards have these >> big buildings, >> large buildings and decks and people are just st I mean those are the kinds of things that that when I talk about criteria, >> you know, I'd like to sort of make it so it it complements one another so people
want to live there or work there, you know. Um I mean we could talk about this inadphenum. Um but it's you know you need to balance things so we don't have an overabundance of residents
>> one thing or the other right I mean >> I think it should you know there should be a a balance um I think about people um in my age category um singles and doubles who have two and three cars. you
know, they've got their sport car, they've got their SUV, and I mean, and these people then move into apartments, and so how do you deal with stuff like that? And I don't know the answer to that because you can't possibly accommodate with every unit. Um, but
that was one of the issues that was a problem with Jayla Faves um presentation or for the deep property. Um he was looking at one parking space per unit and the feeling was that you know it had
to at least be one and a half spaces because you're going to have two people living in a unit each with a car. I mean making it more walkable, yes, but you still need a car to go to the doctor. You still need a car to go wherever. So we're not going to eliminate cars. Um
that's the problem. At least that's how I see it. Um, and having a parking garage three blocks away isn't going to help either. >> Well, this is an interesting point because we it comes back to this every time we look at a different iteration of
the center. No matter what we do, we're not stopping the amount of cars that come to the center. We we can try to tell people that there's another way to go, but in all likelihood, we're not going to see a down tick in traffic counts at any time
at any point soon. So, >> well, Rebecca had talked about utilizing the arteries around the >> Yeah, that and again that that's something that we can sort of get the we can pay Google to give them different directions, right? >> GPS go a different way if it's quicker.
Well, and so and which is a funny sort of conventional wisdom to say, well, why don't why don't we slow down our rotary and then less people will go to it? >> It'll be safer, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Um it's it's interesting. Um, in fact,
uh, well, I I won't get into that now, but um, I I I I like sort of um, this collaborative conversation and sort of exchange of ideas because um, in all honesty, I think we sort of took the
deliverable from um, PVPC and which was the center town district bylaw and sort of crafted it to a point that was different than 40R but ended up kind of close. So, um it seems like um
we have some sort of information here and again this stuff is invented all the time. We we we have enough um we have enough talent in our planning department and the deputy town manager to sort of look at these problems from a way that
maybe nobody looked at before. Right. It's it's it's Jeff Spec's talk about yeah, this this was what we wanted to do about here's how we did zoning, right? And maybe that's the way we're going to keep doing zoning. Maybe there's something some hybrid of let's do a
little of this and a little of that and maybe that works out for ESO. The the thing I do know, and again, we'll go all the way back to day one of this whole conversation, is the conventional wisdom in this planning book or that planning book or Long
Meadows zoning bylaw or Brookline's zoning bylaw is not going to be what works the best for the center of Esau Meadow. It none of it is. And so that's why everybody's sort of input is important because there is an idea. It's
probably not written down yet. One other thought, um, when we were working on the planned adult residential bylaw, >> okay, >> um, we put together a hybrid formula
because we understood that the developer was looking to to make x amount of dollars for this project, >> of course. So, we put together a hybrid formula to say, okay, if if you build x number of units under
1,900 square f feet or something like that, and just by virtue of size, they're more affordable based on on the amount per square foot, then we'll let you build x more so that you can make money so that there would be an opportunity for people in East Long Meadow to have a place to go if they
wanted to. And I say that because, you know, we're surrounded by other communities that have, you know, better resources, I guess, is the word I want to say it. And and the developer looked at it and said, you know, I see that, but went and built single family houses
because that was his choice. >> And that's okay. But they started 500,000 a piece, the little guys. And so, you know, that outprices some of our some of our families here. And so >> east one meadow is always going to outpric some of the surrounding
communities. >> Um >> the only point I would make is historical. You know, we're talking about putting residential properties back in our center. And I think what most people don't realize is we had residential houses in the center of our
town and they all got taken over by businesses, torn down, and businesses went in. Um, I mean I I can think of a couple right on Maple Street. Uh, right in front of Steve Grahams. We had um the house that's with the plants and all.
>> We had them on Shaker Road. >> Larry Rose, >> they were literally taken down so that businesses could go in because >> that was the business zone. In our business zone, we allow single family residences. you don't see anyone buying
a business, ripping it down, and putting a house in. It just it's not happening. It happens the opposite way. Um, so my thought is is as far as single family, unless you do change the permit and and basically do
like row houses where you can put, you know, six in on the same basic size property. I I don't see we're a single family residence and I don't know if I want a house like on favorite lane in the middle of our center. Um not that they
would put it there, but um that's what they're paying for the property. So um yes, >> I think kind of summarizing a bunch of different thoughts here, but then also a slightly different twist in some areas. Uh, I agree that we definitely need to
revisit the whole parking requirements and standards situation. I don't disagree with you in terms of like the the process and how we get there. But yeah, there's a lot of wasted pavement and I don't want to see that continue and what we do going forward. I think whatever we do should have a
mixeduse component and it probably needs to be more housing than commercial or business. A lot of people, I think, like to have the idea that you would find all these boutique shops, but that's not really realistic in the the current market. You'll probably find some cafes and
restaurants and stuff like that, but you're not going to find someone trying to compete with Amazon anymore in most towns. That's just not going to be a realistic venture. Um, I do like the idea of like making it more walkable and connecting areas. Even like meandering
through some landscaping would be a a nice idea. Uh, let's see. I do think it needs to be dense enough though that it's actually a plausible idea. Um, for two reasons. I mean, one, I don't think single family homes belong. Yeah.
>> In the vision of the the center of town, new ones anyway, not ones that already exist. Um, but two, >> sometimes it sounds like I don't care about open space, but I do. And I think we're running the risk in the next 20
years of turning into our neighboring communities that have zero buildable space left in their community and your tax rate goes through the roof and you have nowhere else in your budget to go. So I think we need to be dense enough knowing that we are a suburb of a major
metropolitan area. People are going to continue to move here. We need to be smart about planning for that and not just limiting ourselves to such less dense space because otherwise, you know, a couple more subdivisions go in and we're built out and then what do we do?
Um, and then at some point, yeah, we don't know what the future holds, but it almost doesn't matter. We just have to take a leap of faith and things will work out. >> Um, and that also kind of goes handinhand with property values being a double-edged sword. Yes, it's great when people go to sell their home, but
they're also greatly complaining at the moment that their tax bill just went through the roofs, >> right? >> You need to do something dense wise to make make up for the difference. you have to increase the supply because the two fastest growing groups of people I think in this town in this state in
this country it's going to be seniors and it's going to be people who are either single or are married or maybe a couple but have maybe one child or no children at all. So the model that built this town into what it is is going to
look a lot different in 10 20 30 or even when we're all gone. And it's not limited to just apartments, but I think our lack of them is contributing to a big part of the problem where we're not able to turn over any of the housing stock. So, anybody that wants to buy the
few neighborhoods that actually have the smaller homes and not the 3,000 square ft McMansions that only get built these days, no one's leaving those homes cuz they have nowhere else to go either. Even people aging in place, and that's great for them, but no one else can move
into town or stay in town. Have you seen the ones that are being built? Happy acres off of South Bend. I mean, they're huge. >> Yeah, >> they're huge. You know, >> what I find interesting uh recently is the amount or the percentage of those homes that are ranches
>> that like they build a big Yeah. No. Well, like Bella Vista has a like there are people that are building their last home. >> It's cuz they're >> size. Yeah. Right. >> Yep. Right. >> Um, do we know what other towns are doing to accommodate like
>> Well, Long Meadow is coming to East Long Meadow. >> No, I mean I'm serious. Like like you think of Long Meadow. >> I was serious. >> Do you know that the people that live in the fields? >> Yes. >> We eat they live in east of Long Meadow. >> Yes. No, but when I'm thinking of Long
Meadow and the Gap and Starbucks and that little nice little area, like I'm picturing the center looking like that, but there's no housing in Long Meadow. Like, are they worried about it or No, >> they are. I mean, they are
>> they do have elderly housing. >> They're they're very um that's all the development they have though. So, their their actual tax base is just single family homes. Sometimes I think it's hard for us to completely compare ourselves to Long Meadow because they are the wealthiest community west
of 495. They also have the highest tax rate in the Commonwealth. So like they >> I'm not trying to compare I'm just they have the ability I think >> those needs. >> They have the ability to do like have the gap and have all those and you know
I I don't know if we would be able to pull that. >> No, I totally get that. And I'm just wondering like do they just not they're just not worried about it like >> Well, I mean it's a very I mean it's a >> and I I mean people might not know >> community but it's I mean it's a very expensive community. So, if you're
talking about expanding like um the gap and all doing apartments above it, they're dead set against it >> because they are expanding and I don't think housing is >> go to like along Route Five and they just had a doctor out there who finally
got permission to have his office in his house. And that was a huge to-do that took a couple years just for them to adjust the zoning just to allow him to do that. Um they're happy with where they are. They don't want it to um
expand. Um they don't want like huge apartment complexes coming in. Um >> like they basically said is you know what? Yeah, I know we're paying a lot in taxes, but we're paying a lot in taxes because of what we're getting, and I'm okay with that.
>> Okay. >> Um just like the new school that they just voted, they're like, "We want it. >> We'll pay more in taxes. That's it." And >> and I think >> I still >> I mean in some way to compare ourselves to our direct neighbors, you might find
some of those things, but if you brought in a couple towns or cities away, >> I think we're a little bit more abnormal in the sense that a lot of these other communities have some sort of historic downtown that did allow mixed use the entire time and we don't really have
that anymore. >> So in a long ways they've they've been doing it so it's not really a shock to them. >> Right. All right. >> I was just I was just like curious why we were so focused on housing or and I I get it. >> I think we're in a unique position too of being able to be flexible. I don't
think a lot of communities that are this old have this means of flexibility at this point in time. >> We do >> because it's so kind of I think underutilized. And also I think the market is going to decide like maybe the market tells us like we set it up so that it could be equal but maybe it's
80% business commercial and 20% resident or maybe 9010 like it could I think it's going to really also depend on like what these developers decide to do because we can put in a lot of rule and I think it's important to put in a lot of those rules but ultimately the developers are
going to look at it and best interpret whether it's feasible to do >> right right and we don't even know the impact of what's going to happen with ADUs. I mean, how many have we had since the law passed? Two, three, one. >> You got one with a permit, with a occup
occupancy permit, right? They're they're living there. Well, two is the second one's being built, but yeah, one's in because it was an addition >> and we're now a full year, almost a full year into it. >> I don't think anybody wanted to be first.
>> They're they're really >> I think they're cute. Well, I mean, maybe that's what we should do. >> Yeah. >> No, I think I could do an ad for you. >> Well, there you go. You don't charge me a lot of rent.
>> Any other thoughts before we move on? >> Okay, let's go. >> All right. I think the funny part about this is we're going to struggle with this and we're going to come up with a decision and all and ultimately it may not mean anything. It all depends on the developers and whether or not they want
to invest that kind of money to do it. >> Yeah. >> So, >> and the economics are going to change and you know again we're going to be at the at the year ending in five bylaw review and whatever we put through really needs to get looked at because it's just not might not be gerine
anymore. So, I think maybe for our next steps on this, we can see whatever those 3D renderings might look like, but also maybe we can put together some pictures of what other cities and towns, 351 of them throughout the state have, cuz I think there's a lot of ideas that might
sound scary, but there's actually they're pretty reasonable and realistic. >> Yeah, like I said, we we have some good information coming in in terms of of that. We'll we'll go have some fun conversations now about sort of like this what what we've sort of heard tonight and and and try to get something
back together. >> It may start small. I mean, we have a a center town district pretty much organized as far as where we would like to see it. And it may start with a bylaw that that's extremely basic that just
says, "Hey, we're going to allow the business, the commercial, the residential like what we do now, but we're going to remove the industrial and that's it for right now." And then you move forwards in, you know, 6 months or a year as you work towards the mixed juice portion of it and you add that to
it. Sometimes if you try and do too much at once, it gets overwhelming and it's like, well, I don't like this portion, so I'm not going to vote for the whole thing when 90% of it is great. >> So, >> okay, >> it's it's a thought process.
>> But the Carlin property is it's owned industrial. Correct. >> Correct. So right now, you know, unless there was a change, I mean, depending on how quickly the town moves forward with cleanup and and someone else owns it and
wants to develop it like the conceptual design that we saw. Um, the bylaw would have to be changed because it's residential isn't allowed in industrial. >> Correct. >> You have to create a center town district. >> It have to be part of, you know, >> Yeah. Yeah. And again, I I'm I'm in full
agreement. I don't think the industrial use is appropriate for the center of general. It's just not. >> So, >> okay. >> Great. All right. >> Okay. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> That was great. >> Thanks. >> Okay. Next, new business. We have action
items for our next meeting, which our next meeting is January 27th. Uh for that, we had scheduled the diff assessment certification, but we had that early, so that was today. Um, we'll have two bylaws for consideration.
I think we'll need to discuss whether we want to put forward the attempted charter amendment again cuz the deadline for that would be uh March if we want want to move forward with that. Um
we may I don't know not necessarily for the next meeting but future meetings we'll have a capital project update summary heritage park plan after it goes through the conservation commission and we will again talk about the 250th
anniversary. That's what I have so far unless I'm missing anything. >> One more bay path. >> Oh that's right. Yep. Fire. >> Fire or police? >> Fire. >> Well, I don't even remember which one you did tonight. The other one. >> Police. We did police.
>> We'll check the video tape later. >> Count the two bylaws. Were those the ones I'm going to be suggesting? >> Yes. >> Yeah. So, one of them will just be a referral, right? >> And the other one's a general bylaw. >> Great. Was there anything? >> So, I just wanted to um report back. It
seems like we'll probably get a final report on the diagnostic review and recommendations around March. Okay. >> Um, and I just wanted to also highlight that we have a number of like reports coming in that we'll want to present to
the council. So, we have um the ADA self-evaluation and transition plan wrapping up. So, in the next month or so, we'll have them present to you. Um, Jeff Spec's phase 2 presentation will be something that we need to carve out time on in an upcoming agenda for. And then
the the Massings project VHB want would be able to demonstrate how these different housing and mixeduse typologies would fit on different parcels across town. >> Great. Cool. >> I'm sure we'll find a spot as >> on top of the budget.
>> Exactly. >> I almost forgot about the budget. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, we're good with business. Then we do have an executive session this evening. Uh so I move to enter into executive session under Mass General Law
Chapter 3A section 21A2 to conduct contract negotiations with non-UN personnel town manager Tom Christensen and to return to open session. >> Are you open to just
um unsure it will open session? >> Thank you. Did you second it? Oh, okay. >> Sorry. >> Motion was made and seconded. Is there any further discussion? Is this a roll call vote to enter? Executive Jim.
>> Yes. >> Kathy, >> yes. >> Anna, >> yes. >> I'm a yes. Marilyn, >> yes. >> Yes. >> And John, >> yes. >> I make a motion to close the public hearing. >> Motion to adjourn. >> Motion to adjurnn. >> Whatever.
>> It's really late. >> Any further discussion? All of a sudden, >> say I. Hi. >> Hi. >> For the